Fifth-generation aircraft as a dead-end branch of aviation development

157 998 155
Fifth-generation aircraft as a dead-end branch of aviation development

You don't look at the picture. It's just... just a teaser. I suspect that even the design bureaus that create these planes won't dare to say which is our most controversial plane.

Before this there was material about history creation of the F-14 (How Soviet intelligence "conned" US colleagues onto a plane). Everything was simple there: choking on disinformation, the Americans rushed to build their next aircraft with a variable-sweep wing, built crap that is now praised in films with Tom Cruise.




The history of this aircraft's creation is somewhat similar to the history of the F-14, only with the opposite sign. But let's not rush to say that this is a "minus". As they say, everything is not so clear-cut.

I honestly admit that I have long wanted to lay out my vision regarding why we do not have air divisions armed with Su-57 and 75, and it would be appropriate here, although these aircraft are participating in the arms race, but not in the way that everyone would like.

But our hero today, as you already understood, is the fifth-generation budget fighter F-22.


The story of its creation (and consequences) really does resemble the inside-out story of the F-14 Tomcat. But in terms of the destructive effect that the Raptor could have had on us, I would compare its creation project to the Star Wars program, that is, SDI-2.

I don't think that the US remembered that deception that was arranged by the Soviet special services more than half a century ago so well, rather, they acted on the beaten track with one single goal. And this goal is comparable to the goal that the smart guys in the States began to implement in the 80s of the last century. That goal was called the "Strategic Defense Initiative", the greatest scare tactic of the 20th century, which, unfortunately, our people bought into and spent a simply stunning amount of money on killer satellites, combat shuttles, space military stations, lasers and so on. Well, what all this led to against the backdrop of a simultaneous orchestrated fall in oil prices, you all understand - we live in a different country.

Yes, there were other reasons, but the SDI in the Soviet version gobbled up so much money that it could have filled three Stabilization Funds to the brim. In gold.


Okay, fine, the threat from space is clear, what does the Raptor have to do with it?

And with such: the history of the appearance of this plane is very reminiscent of the SDI. What was the calculation? Just to arrange a race aviation weapons, the outcome of which is unpredictable. But the entire history of the F-22 is a history of deception and trickery.

Let's start with the definition of the fifth generation of aircraft. Already at this point, many "experts" begin to roll their eyes and mumble meaningfully. Many have tried to cram all the world's aircraft into some kind of framework, but not everyone has succeeded. Personally, for example, I like the way Richard Hallion laid it out the most, but he did it about thirty years ago, and he ended up with the sixth generation, whose representatives were the Su-27 and F-14/15/16. It would be worth continuing his work, but we are talking about something a little different now.

What is this fifth generation?



Fifth-generation fighters, according to Avia Week, began to be developed at the end of the 20th century and differ from the fourth in the following characteristics:

- use of stealth technology and technologies to reduce visibility, placement of weapons inside the fuselage;

- flight at supersonic speed without using afterburners;

- more advanced avionics (AESA, etc.).

Everything is already vague and indefinite, isn't it? Low visibility, of course, yes. A serious component, here are materials, forms, and technologies.

Armament inside the fuselage? This "innovation" is almost a hundred years old, because by the mid-30s bombers were already carrying their cargo in bomb bays, not under their wings.


More advanced avionics – again, vague. Yes, it could be an AFAR (which has been on the MiG-31 since 1981), and various helmets with screens, and distortion field generators that will turn the fighter into a transport Hercules or (who knows) a Toucan on the radar screen.

As for supercruise, flight at supersonic speed without the use of afterburners, this is a whole other topic for discussion, so we will go over it briefly.

Supersonic long-duration cruise flight: who is it for and what is it for?


A very good option for a bomber that has to cover long distances. A bomber, you understand, is not a frontline one like the Su-24 or Su-34, they don’t really need it. But the point is to quickly cover the distance to the launch point missiles/dropping bombs without eating up a railway tank of fuel and without destroying the engine's resource, because afterburner is a stressful thing, no matter how you look at it. And not all aircraft can fly on afterburner for a long time.

For a fighter, supercruise is pretty mediocre. Why do they even use afterburner/supersonic today? It's all elementary: firstly, when you need to catch up with someone, secondly, when you need to quickly get away from someone. That's all. Well, the third option is to converge before the missile launch point so that there is a reserve of speed for the escape maneuver.

Everything else - maneuver combat (which, frankly, is becoming history), anti-missile evasive maneuvers, whatever - any active evolutions are not about supersonics. Even 100 years ago, when piloting piston-engine rattlers of the last century, a pilot could easily lose consciousness or briefly lose his sight due to overloads. And at modern speeds...


Although a few words about speeds. Today, supersonic speed is, say, Mach 1,1 – 1350 km/h. I would say – average speed. Serious supersonic is about Mach 2, that is, about 2500 km/h. This is not for everyone. But what can a modern aircraft do at such a speed? Nothing. It has a pilot inside, a very delicate structure.

Several years ago, one of our readers, with whom we had several very informative conversations on the topic of aviation, a former interceptor pilot with the MiG-31, told us very intimate details about how to fly at such speeds. And you can fly the MiG-31, it is generally the king of speed and altitude, a gorgeous (according to Alexander) aircraft, after which you can only look at anything else with a grin.

So how to fly on 2M? Calmly and beautifully.


At high altitude, enjoying the views, in a straight line. Maneuvers at such a speed? Unrealistic, maximum - left-right, as if along the bottom of a pipe, gently and smoothly. True, this may be enough, because although the missiles fly at a high speed, up to 6M, you can deceive them with such "swinging". It is very problematic for the most advanced missile to catch up with the MiG-31 at such a speed. Ejection? Yes. Once. On any aircraft you can eject twice, the third time only after a very serious commission, but with the MiG-31 at supersonic speed - once and that's it. To be written off.

In general, that's how it is. At supersonic speeds, they cross huge distances (Russia, the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic from north to south, etc.), but maneuverable combat at supersonic speeds is not for humans. It breaks down quickly. Fights at a distance - as many as you like, the main thing is not to "break" the plane in supersonic turns, otherwise someone will definitely break down.

That's basically the whole supercruise. But we'll come back to it when we start putting everything together in one box.

nearly invisible



I would compare this to the "ozone hole" story in terms of its sophistication. Remember how they brainwashed us into thinking that if the world didn't stop using refrigerators and air conditioners, it would be finished? It would probably be worse than SDI, because SDI only upset the USSR, while "OD" upset the entire world. Well, except for those who didn't know what a refrigerator was and didn't care.

Thank goodness for time, all these "invisible fighters" have gone down in history, leaving only low-visibility aircraft. Today, any normal person "in the know" knows clearly and understandably that no one and nothing can ensure complete invisibility of an aircraft from radar. Of course, such a thing as a wooden-fabric glider with powder rocket engines will be completely invisible to radar, but that's not what we're talking about.

What we are talking about is that reducing the radar cross-section, that is, the amount of radio waves needed to create a radar picture of an object in order to determine its size, type, direction of movement, degree of danger, and so on, is a very useful thing, but, alas, not a panacea for radars. Of course, if an F-22 looks like a Cessna on a radar screen, that will be just fine for the F-22, which is not the case for those it is flying to.

Many, by the way, have noticed the "patchwork" structure of the Raptor's surface. And many, I'm sure, remember how pompously the Americans explained to all these simple-minded people that these strange panels are a product of technologies that are not yet available to the rest of the world, and that they are the ones that scatter radar beams and reflect them where they need to, making the device not exactly invisible, but completely unnoticeable.


Yes, right now there is no better time to remember how an aircraft from the "invisible" class was clearly seen and shot down by Yugoslav (at that time) anti-aircraft gunners. March 1999. In general, the event shook the military world, because no one expected such a turn of events: the Yugoslavs, armed with God knows what, shot down the newest bomber.


If there is anything to say in defense of the F-117, it is that today such a stealth scheme, practically based on the aircraft architecture and coatings, is quite viable. In the F-117, the architecture generally took on 90% of the reduction in the RCS, the rest is "on the conscience" of the coatings. It is due to such strange shapes that the F-117 reflects radio waves not towards the radar, but up or down from the aircraft.


That is why most of the F-117 surfaces are inclined at an angle of more than 30° from the vertical, because the angles of the plane and the beam of waves from the radar are quite flat, this meeting does not occur "point-blank", but at a decent distance. If you take and irradiate the F-117 from different angles and distances, and then use this data to create a general picture, it turns out that the plane is visible, but ... The "invisible" "glows" in individual sectors, which are quite narrow and cannot provide a complete picture. That is, the radar will not be able to extract enough information from the reflected signals to answer the most important question: who is flying and why?

Almost all components of the airframe are oriented in such a way that reflection from them occurs strictly in the main sectors. All the gaps along the contour of the inspection hatches and optical windows, the joints of the canopy and the fuselage have overlays with a sawtooth edge, the doors of the chassis, engines and weapons compartments also have sawtooth edges, and the sides of the teeth are oriented in the direction of the desired sector. Complex and serious work, but...

But there is a nuance. It is simple and straightforward. This is the frequency range in which a particular radar operates. And this is what determines what will happen when a wave and an invisible aircraft collide: whether the reflected signal will go somewhere into the sky or return to the receiving antenna. Radar ranges are carefully calculated for effective reflection and range, and, naturally, are kept secret as much as possible.

It is possible that the F-117 was invisible/barely noticeable to modern radars, which has been said a lot. Who in the US is to blame for the fact that the Yugoslavs had SAMs in their arsenal that were also dropping Phantoms on the ground in Vietnam?

In general, even today you will be tortured to look for the frequency range in which the SNR-125, the S-125 air defense missile guidance station, operates. What can we say about more modern systems? Yes, of course, when the F-117 and F-22 were created, the developers racked their brains over how the aircraft would look in this or that radio range. Of course, they irradiated them, based on the data that their intelligence had dug up and dragged on the tail of electronic reconnaissance aircraft, which are hanging around the world for this very purpose, collecting signals from various radars. Processing them and then transmitting them to those who need this data.

Something like that was averaged out with this particular F-117. Planes, angles, edges, coatings – everything was designed for one thing, but in reality it turned out to be something else.


It would be very interesting to see how the F-22 would fare in a similar situation. It is clear that its shapes, calculated on supercomputers, would disperse some of the radiation from enemy aircraft radars, some of the radiation from ground radars Defense, ship radars, but: who can guarantee that this will happen with all radars? And what if some "Sarych" comes out with its not very modernized "Frigate-710"? Will it see? I do not rule out. And S-75 and S-125 are scattered around the world... Especially among those who do not have money for normal air defense.

Well, with modern radars, too, not everything is so simple and straightforward. Everything depends on the range, angle, signal power, frequency.

In general, stealth is a very useful thing in theory, since it gives the aircraft the main thing - the ability to survive. In general, at a long distance, say, 100-200 km, any aircraft can throw a missile aside with an elementary anti-aircraft maneuver and decoys. Of course, it depends on what kind of missile, this is also important. But ours is a stealth aircraft...

This means that if they spot him, they will do so point-blank. And the pilot will have practically no time, if they really spot him and aim the missile from about 20-30 kilometers away. He will have to move very actively to get away. So it is a real double-edged sword here.

Stealth is very difficult, expensive and in terms of efficiency - a question that can only be resolved by full-fledged participation in combat operations. The Su-57 tests in the skies of Ukraine are not full-fledged combat operations, they are simply tests in combat conditions.

weaponry



I also didn't see the tale about laser blasters. It was actively told, but they just didn't show it, so it's a miracleweapon in the form of super-smart missiles, which cannot be captured and from which there is no escape, will probably be shown later.

It turns out that behind the absolutely trivial bomb bay doors, which as a structure are 100 years old, are hidden trivial missiles like the same Sidewinder, which will turn 70 years old this year as a product, if anything.

And this is the "new generation"?

Oh yeah... There's a super system there that takes the missile out of the compartment and launches it outside the plane...

I can't say how much of a novelty there is, but the Junkers Ju-87 had such a thing and it took a bomb dropped in a dive beyond the radius swept by the propeller. It's very modern and innovative, you know.


Well, we’ll accept the Sparrow, Sidewinder and AMRAAMs in the bomb bays (sorry, weapons bays) as a given.

A lot of questions were asked about whether the Raptor is crap or the best aircraft in the world?

The Raptor has received very good engines, reliable and time-tested. Pratt & Whitney F100 is probably the best that the company has ever produced. And with these engines, the Raptor has no problem cruising supersonic, and considering that it also has a TVS, albeit in a very narrow range (not comparable to Russian aircraft), but nevertheless, the maneuverability and thrust-to-weight ratio of the F-22 are quite decent.

Camouflage in the status of low visibility? Yes. Curved intake ducts designed to hide the turbine blades (and this is what the plane "shines" best of all), exhaust nozzles of such a strange configuration that in the last century such a thing could only be seen in Hollywood science fiction, in general - reduced visibility in the radio range, reduced thermal signature, complete, so to speak, grace?


Oh, well, we haven't covered the last point yet.

About AFAR and all that stuff


Well, I already said about the AFAR, you won’t surprise anyone with this, in terms of the placement of emitters and all-round visibility, as well as all sorts of EW- there are probably worse planes than this (yes, you need to go to the Sukhoi company website), but what do they have that others don’t?

Yes, there is. All modern jet aircraft in terms of control are like a steel ball balancing on the tip of a needle. That is, they are dynamically unstable objects. There are planes with a pronounced rear center of gravity, there are planes with a front center of gravity, and there is, for example, the Su-27, which I haven’t even read about the aerodynamic trick. Therefore, it is unrealistic to control such a plane without a computer, but you can do somersaults that no American planes could even dream of.

The F-22 has a center of mass close to the aerodynamic focus or slightly behind, meaning the aircraft is unstable to the fullest extent, which leaves room for super maneuverability. Without the electronic control system (FBW), the aircraft would be uncontrollable, but yes, the Raptor flies well, there's no denying that.

We simply keep quiet about aircraft with real, not cut-off, UVT.


It is clear that balancing a modern aircraft is a very delicate matter. And specially trained people do this so that the aircraft does not start to raise its nose in flight or, on the contrary, lower it due to, say, running out of fuel.

The Raptor's flight configuration is programmed in a special service center, and is stuffed into a "flight suitcase" in the form of a flash drive, which also contains "friend or foe" codes, coordinates of restricted areas, and signatures of objects that are prohibited from attack. In general, a lot of very useful and important information. This box is attached to the left weapons compartment and connected to the onboard system.


This is what the compartment with the connection point for this box looks like; I couldn’t find a photo of the device itself.

You can write any program of "behavior" in the air into this box. Absolutely any, depending on the task. This can say a lot, including that the F-22 airframe is good and has excellent flight characteristics in theory. Well, like the Su-27. The fact that the "Raptors" do not put on a show in the style of "Russian Knights" does not mean that the aircraft is not capable of doing "Cobra" in the air or something else from the arsenal of our aerobatic pilots.

But, let's be honest, there were no nuclear shows involving the F-22 due to a complete reluctance to sell them to the side. So, theory is theory, but theory requires practical evidence.

What else is there that is so cutting-edge? A lantern, perhaps.


In general, smart people say that the cockpit canopy is the second most "luminous" part of the plane, after the turbine blades. That's why the Raptor canopy costs several million dollars apiece (7,028, to be exact) and is made of multiple layers: indium, tin and gold between layers of different plastics. It looks amazing, but also saves the pilot from getting a tan (even though he's wearing a helmet and mask) and greatly reduces visibility.

Versatility? Well, yes, the Americans reported that during one super-mission the F-22 made an ultra-long-range flight with refueling, during the mission it worked as a fighter (the question is - against whom, it was in Syria), a bomber, a photo control aircraft, again as an escort fighter and a guidance aircraft. 11 hours - I hope the pilots had enough diapers, I have not come across any information about the F-22 having a waste disposal unit.

Okay, maybe it's time to answer the question "What was all this for?" and "Why did you bother with the F-22?"

Actually, all of the above serves one purpose: to prove that the F-22 is not that different from the previous generation of aircraft. And, perhaps, it is a very good machine, the meaning is just a little different.


So, we have a fifth-generation aircraft that partially shares the characteristics of this generation. More precisely, one: the ability to fly supersonic without afterburner. Low visibility is conditional, because it really does not work at supersonic speeds, and it does not work with external mounts. The armament is absolutely the same as that of fourth-generation aircraft.

Question: is this supersonic speed necessary?


Answer: only in some places, as was said above. Missiles and anti-missiles, and most importantly, UAVs armed with missiles, can fly and maneuver today with overloads of up to 30g and speeds of up to 8M. An airplane with a pilot inside is not even close to being able to fly like that, because a person is weak and fragile and may not withstand overloads starting from 15g. Flying in a straight line and waiting for a missile to catch up with you? Some kind of strange masochism, because a missile is faster anyway.

Okay, there is a small EPR, which is great, but modern missiles no longer rely on their own radar, they, like ATGMs, will soon be able to work "by portrait", when the missile processor database contains all the "images" of enemy aircraft and the missile "knows" who it is going to. And 60-100 times per second it takes pictures of the target and compares them with the database, without releasing the target from capture. And here all the tricks of electronic warfare, all the traps will be about as effective as tank defense systems against Javelins.

So there you have it: three fundamental factors for the fifth generation and… nothing special compared to the same F-15, if you don’t take into account the simply mind-boggling cost. The F-15 flies twice as far, carries twice as many missiles and bombs, and the fact that it can’t fly 150 km at non-afterburning supersonic speed – well, by and large no one cares about that.

There remains this stealthiness, which is impossible at supersonic speeds, with suspended PTBs, with missiles on the external suspension... In short, not a fighter, but some kind of assassin from a computer game: he sneaked up, launched a couple of missiles and disappeared unnoticed before they saw him and gave him the full treatment. No, that's also tactics, but still...

And here is the most important question: what do we care about American torments?

In principle, except for fiddling with the Su-57, nothing. But it must be said that our aviation industry is not the same as in Soviet times, so it does not really need extra loads. The Americans, we must give them credit, played enough with the Raptor very quickly, to put it mildly, stunned by the prices of production and maintenance, they shut down the program, having made a couple of hundred "miracle planes". But having arranged an unprecedented PR campaign, turning the whole world on its ears and forcing the world to believe that the F-22 is the best thing that could ever fly in the skies, and the most deadly. And therefore the US will not sell a single plane to anyone, they themselves desperately need such a plane.

But how everyone rushed to catch up and overtake... Although, let's admit it, there is no one to catch up with. But those who could, began to move their processes. Our people rushed to trade left and right, first Su-57, then they began to offer Su-75, without making it in metal, but the world somehow did not appreciate it. The world preferred to buy the fourth, but unconditional generation. And do not talk about the F-35, it is no more than a skimmed F-22, not much different from the F-15 and Su-35, and in many ways inferior to these outstanding aircraft.


The Su-57 is the same kind of mindless arms race project as the aforementioned modular frigates. Remember, we rushed to stamp out such things after the States, and ended up with five or six sad, defenseless troughs that were quickly sent to rot in the Black Sea, and that, thank God, is all.

What is the problem with the Su-57? It's all the same - the engines. It's not in series yet, everyone is still finishing up "product 30", which should give the Su-57 this supersonic cruise. Why - that's the question. More precisely, this is how: the Russian Aerospace Forces will have a fighter capable of flying supersonic without afterburner, the question remains - where and why. The Americans could not answer.

In general, it would be worth using a calculator here. Let's take a hypothetical F-22, which on its supercruise flies towards Russia from the territory of, say, Ukraine. The distance from Boryspil to Valuyki is 500 km. In Boryspil there is an airfield, in Valuyki - the headquarters of the 3rd motorized division as a target.

The funny thing is that the F-22 can only fly 185 km out of 500 at supercruise. This is official information, so something like this: 185 km at 1 km/h, and then either afterburner and fall in the Belgorod steppes due to fuel exhaustion, or puff at subsonic speed. Hardly noticeable. Here we must remember that the combat radius of the F-900 in this scenario is 22 km. Well, yes, all the magic camouflage coatings do not work at supersonic speeds, do not forget.

The F-15 will fly this distance in about the same time, because its speed will still be the same 1200-1300 km/h, but without the mental anguish of not having enough fuel. It will be enough to fly like this twice.

This supersonic speed does not provide any advantages over other aircraft; here it would be worth relying more on the new electronic warfare systems and radars that we have.

There were a lot of empty questions on the topic of "Where are our regiments and divisions on the Su-57???", including in the comments on our pages. But now you sit and think: are they really so necessary? Because of supersonic speed? Or because of stealth? It turns out to be either one or the other, not all together. The F-22 has proven it.


The flight characteristics of the Su-35 and Su-57 are very similar. And the Su-35 can fly supersonic without afterburners, if that matters. Maybe not at the same speed as the 57th, but it can. And their weapons are practically the same. The Su-57 has absolutely the same stealth limitations. Cost? Well, the 57th is a little (only 300 million rubles) more expensive. And, accordingly, it takes more time than the 35th.

Of course, it is worth comparing closely, but it is already clear that as a next-generation aircraft it is not much superior to the Su-35 from the previous one. Then why all this? Why the billions spent? Just because the Americans got a new toy that they did not really show to anyone? Well, I do not mean the demonstration aerobatics of the F-22 Demo-Team, they fly normally there, beautifully.

It seems that this was some kind of program aimed at making Russia rush to build armadas of Su-57s with all its might. And then push them to other countries, which would be difficult even in the best of times; the Americans are great at marketing their planes. And those who don't understand this can be brainwashed with sanctions.

Looking at all this today, you inevitably begin to understand that it is not for nothing that regiments of Su-57s do not furrow the skies. There is a certain understanding of the moment that so far all fifth-generation aircraft, except for the price, are no different from fourth-generation aircraft. And maybe it is not for nothing that the Europeans began to mold something there that looks like the sixth? And the Chinese are already flying around?

But if the Chinese really do have a three-engine rocket plane capable of going almost into near space, then yes, that's a difference. But if they just have planes made of more expensive materials and with more expensive components, then we could definitely say that the F-22, F-35, Su-57, J-20 and all those who will follow are nothing more than a dead-end branch of aviation development, devouring billions of billions, but not representing anything that wasn't invented 50 years ago.
155 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    April 9 2025 05: 20
    beyond the propeller's swept radius.

    Rather:
    beyond the limits "rotor swept area"
    1. +4
      April 9 2025 10: 21
      Pulling screw
      .........................................
    2. +19
      April 9 2025 15: 41
      Don't read another "caveman" nonsense about modern aviation. The author has no idea about modern warfare and the methods of waging it. The world has undergone an information revolution that has changed all spheres of human life. Including the military. The 5th generation aircraft is not the next generation that has come to replace the 4th, as many are trying to present to you due to their limitations. 4th generation aircraft will exist with both the 5th and 6th generations. The 5th generation aircraft is a universal element of the Combat Information System that exists only within its framework.
      I won't explain why it's universal.
      But the 6th generation aircraft is a key element of the BIS, especially when it functions locally within a remote positional area. Without the BIS, 5th and 6th generation aircraft turn into 4th generation aircraft, and not the best ones...
      1. +3
        April 9 2025 23: 03
        Quote: Okko777
        Without BIS, 5th and 6th generation aircraft turn into 4th generation aircraft, and not the best ones...

        The BIUS was introduced by NATO countries even before the 5th generation, in all branches of the armed forces, with the start of the operation of the Link-16 broadband satellite communications system and is used on aircraft of any generation, as well as tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, air defense crews and the like. The Ukrainians from Starlink created their BIUS in the garage and received a huge advantage in coordinating artillery over the Russian Armed Forces. Why is it that without the BIUS, 5th generation fighters are turning into 4th, when their stealth for all types of radars does not fade away and their danger to the enemy in aircraft of lower generations in an air battle does not go away? Of course, no one has the opportunity to sit in the cockpit of a 4th generation aircraft, or at the screen of an air defense radar and observe with their own eyes the difference between a "regular" and "stealth" aircraft, but ground vehicles also have means of protection in the IR and radar fields, such as the Barracuda tank and infantry fighting vehicle protection system, and images of this system in action are still more accessible and are available online. In the Russian Federation, there is a less advanced, because it is decades older, but still somewhat effective, Nakidka system. And the almost religious belief that 5th generation aircraft fly poorly, and it is unclear what this belief is based on, still strongly contradicts the facts.
        Quote: Okko777
        Don't read another "caveman" ramble about modern aviation. The author has no idea about modern warfare and how to conduct it.

        It's hard to disagree, and with each article the author becomes more and more creative. Maybe he abuses something and then writes...
        1. 0
          April 10 2025 04: 29
          What! What an advantage they got, especially in the artery. The Russian army also has a combat information and control system. We are just used to criticizing everything. Explain to me how it happens that with all the advantages of Ukraine, according to your data, the Russian army is advancing, but the Ukrainian one is not. Despite the fact that the Ukrainian army was at least twice as superior in manpower. The combat information and control system does not work very well with a modern enemy. You need to know this. It works well when you are chasing Bormaley in slippers in open terrain. This has been proven in all combat conflicts, where the army is more modern, the combat information and control system does not work as the engineers intended.
          1. +1
            April 11 2025 20: 53
            Quote: Eduard Egorov
            Where the army is more modern, the combat information system does not work

            The Ukrainians were able to coordinate reconnaissance and weapons with the help of Starlink, it's just an instant reaction to intelligence. The Russian Armed Forces do not have any broadband communications, they haven't finished it, but they have Chinese radios and command chains, which are orders of magnitude slower, which means a large waste of ammunition. The Russian Armed Forces have more resources, both manpower directly at the front and ammunition, so they are advancing, although not very vigorously and at too high a price, considering the conquests. The pace of advance that was last year, before February of this year, has dropped very sharply. In fact, the front has now stopped. Why did you assume that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were twice as superior in manpower, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have an acute shortage of manpower to fill their positions. And it is not clear why you assumed that the combat information and control system does not work with some enemy? Satellite communications are quite difficult to jam, even Starlinks did not work, as was evident from the BEK attacks, and Link-16 is even more so.
      2. 0
        April 10 2025 12: 04
        (C)author it's burning
        By the mid-30s, bombers were already carrying their cargo in their bomb bays, not under their wings.

        Tell this to "Ilya Muromets" from Sikorsky - see picture.
        On the MiG-31 AFAR?!
        And much, much more, in his repertoire. The main thing is more aplomb, and to understand - this is from the evil one.
        The only thing is, the article makes you think, not for the first time, why the Americans, having "vultures" and "penguins", continue to develop the 4th generation for themselves, and not only for export.
      3. +1
        April 13 2025 01: 36
        The 5th generation aircraft is a universal element of the Combat Information System, which exists only within its framework.
        If any.
        1. 0
          April 13 2025 01: 38
          And without the presence, the 5th generation aircraft turns into an aircraft with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft...
  2. +10
    April 9 2025 05: 34
    Hmm .... belay
    The defeat of the 5th generation of aviation there is no stopping it on VO request .... "dead end of development" winked in action, so to speak...

    Ok, "repetition is the mother of learning." feel
    Some news from Laos to clarify the actual situation: "The US currently has F-22 fighters in service. They have a lot of them. Let's put it that way.
    We do not have reliable data on their real capabilities at long and medium distances.
    I am now talking about practice. That is, about what we have verified during a personal meeting with this or that aircraft.
    But in close, maneuverable combat we have such practice.
    The F-22 was also encountered by the Su-35S and Su-30SM.
    The battles were fought with blunted blades (that is, the planes were armed and carried out similar combat sorties, but fire could only be opened in the most fantastic development of the situation) the convergence was not fair, the planes were not in equal conditions, at different speeds and altitudes and with different combat loads, and the level of training of the pilots was unknown to both participants.
    We met one on one.
    That is, everything was like in a war. Everything was unfair.
    In all cases, the F-22 is one of our fighters. Very confidently and effortlessly.
    Yes, maybe if the weight categories were equal and if there was a Su-57 then he would have grown /// and he would have become a grandfather. I don't know. For some reason he didn't arrive.
    And when he finally arrived, our Su-35s provided cover for him.
    Today the situation is like this, tomorrow it may change and we will all be saved by the MiG-31, which does not really understand why this close, maneuverable combat of yours is needed.
    And I would like to remind you that we do not yet have a single combat regiment armed with Su-57s."
    (c) Firebomber

    So what's the topic? "what bad 5th generation aircraft" can be closed.
    fellow

    P.S. The Su57's "shelves" (plural) were especially funny: "Looking at all this today, you inevitably begin to understand that it is not for nothing that regiments of Su-57s do not furrow the skies. There is a certain understanding of the moment that for now all fifth-generation aircraft, except for price, are no different from fourth-generation aircraft." Well, and about "a certain understanding of the moment."
    laughing
    1. +1
      April 9 2025 10: 03
      Dear Wildcat, could you share links to your sources of information? Where do you "get" information about encounters in real combat conditions of the F-22 with the Su-35S and the Su-30SM and the outcome as you write "In all cases, the F-22 out-fought our fighters. Very confidently and effortlessly"? As far as I know, there was an attempt by four F-22s to escort a pair of Tu-95Ms under the cover of Su-27s in international airspace over the Bering Strait. The "Raptors" behaved quite brazenly, clearly interfering with the flight, but when a pair of Su-35S "attached" themselves to their tail, they simply rushed to their shores like madmen, our planes continued their flight.
      1. +4
        April 9 2025 12: 14
        F-22s and Su-35Cs were in the skies over the SAR in the east.
        1. +1
          April 9 2025 13: 10
          Dear dragon772, indeed, in 2018 our Su-22 collided with an F-25 in the skies over Syria. This story looked something like this: a Russian Aerospace Forces Su-22 attack aircraft was performing a combat mission and an American fifth-generation F-35 Raptor fighter jet came out to intercept it in the border area. This entire interception was just an action in the style of “showing who’s boss”. However, everything would have been fine, but an Su-35S appeared from above. At that time, the American aircraft tried to interfere with our attack aircraft and fired off heat traps. However, after it detected the Su-22, the American proudly ran away from the “battlefield”. One of the world's leading news portals, Business Insider, explained why the F-35 lost to the Su-XNUMXS in the skies over Syria.
          1. The American plane had no advantages over the Russian plane (in these cases the USA is not at war).
          2. The Russian plane has visible missiles, but the American plane does not (apparently, in the opinion of the Americans, the Russian pilot is so stupid that if he does not visually see the missiles, he does not understand that the plane has them anyway).
          3. And anyway, I was just flying past and it was time to fly away (in the words of the American pilot himself).
          1. +6
            April 9 2025 14: 02
            1.This is just a newspaper hoax.
            2. Didn't the F-22 have air-to-air missiles on board? In the internal bays were AIM-120C AMRAAM -6 and AIM-9M -2.
            But it was in the sky of the SAR,
            1. -3
              April 9 2025 14: 20
              What is a newspaper canard? What was in the sky of the SAR? Did you read carefully what was written? If the F-22 had won at least one, even a training battle with the Su, the Americans would have "screamed" about it to the whole world through all the media. But so far all their "achievements" are - recorded (including visually) multiple "running away from the spot" when Su fighters appear nearby and refusal to even take off, at an air show in India because an Su 57 was flying there.
              1. +2
                April 9 2025 17: 00
                The American plane had no advantages over the Russian plane.
                You can write anything you want.
                The fact of the meeting in the skies of the SAR was the F-22 and Su-35S.
                I believe that underestimating the enemy is extremely dangerous.
                At the air show in India, the F-35 was on display, not the F-22, which is no longer in production.
          2. +5
            April 9 2025 18: 05
            Quote: bug120560
            Business Insider explains why the F-22 lost to the Su-35S in the skies over Syria

            as far as I understand, we are talking about this article
            https://www.businessinsider.com/f-22-su-35-intercept-syria-us-major-disadvantage-2017-12
            But there is nothing there that you are describing. Maybe I have cited the wrong article? Please tell me where the correct one is.
            1. -1
              April 10 2025 09: 01
              Dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk, naturally, such a "respected" publication as Business Insider will never write in its publications the way I did. If you are really interested in the description of the F-22's encounters in the air with our Sukhois, read this link as well: https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/en-ru.ru.a56e82ab-67f758d4-9460b389-74722d776562/https/www.businessinsider.com/us-f-22s-faced-russias-su-35-over-alaska-at-a-major-disadvantage-2018-9. The gist of all the articles is the same - when the Su-30/35 appeared, the vaunted F-22s always preferred to retreat. As for my comment, its wording is taken from another source: https://pikabu.ru/story/business_insider_obyasnil_pochemu_f22_ustupil_su35s_v_nebe_nad_siriey_5571676?ysclid=m9awg97rlw635309026. It just seemed the most appropriate to me.
              1. +3
                April 10 2025 16: 42
                Good afternoon!
                Quote: bug120560
                If you are really interested in the description of the F-22's encounters with our Sukhois in the air, read also at this link

                Thanks, I read it, but it's practically the same. Neither article says that the F-22 yields the sky to the Su-35 during a meeting. They say that for the task of "interception in peacetime" the F-22 has no advantage over 4th generation fighters. That is, the F-22 solves the task of "fly in, flap its wings, demonstrate missiles and the determination to use them" even worse than the F-15. And this is true. But... this is a non-combat task.
                Quote: bug120560
                The gist of all the articles is the same: when the Su-30/35 appeared, the vaunted F-22s always preferred to retreat.

                No, there is none of this in either article. And the original source of the messages is the Ministry of Defense, which follows from the second link you provided. But it is not about all cases, but about one case. Moreover, this case is confirmed only by our side. The Europeans write that the F-22 intercepted our Su-25, and our Ministry of Defense writes in response that it did not intercept, but was forced out by the Su-35
                By the way, I am quite inclined to believe the scenario from the Ministry of Defense, at least it clearly does not contain anything improbable. As for FighterBomber, here, perhaps, the key word is "unfair"
                Quote: Wildcat
                the convergence was not fair, the planes were not on equal terms

                How could they not be in equal conditions? Well, if, for example, ours are going about their business, they are spotted by an AWACS, which we do not have, and an F-22 is brought to them, which, taking advantage of its stealth, approaches ours from the rear hemisphere... So here, even an F-16 can win - when the AWACS is working, and the enemy can only count on the onboard radar and the radar, which are also not all-aspect. It is clear that the situation for ours in this case is initially a losing one, but the Su-35's performance characteristics have nothing to do with it
                1. -2
                  April 10 2025 20: 08
                  What are you saying? Did you read the articles carefully or did you skip the lines? Both articles emphasized the explanation of why the F-22s left the flight zone after the Sukhoi fighters appeared. I am not a great expert in fighter aircraft and do not want to "shake the air" with a statement like the F-22 is "crap". It is a very serious fighter, but even I know that the new Sukhoi fighters have radars with the ability to view the rear hemisphere. Since the F-22 does not have long-range air-to-air missiles in its arsenal (it does not fit into the internal compartment), it needs to approach to a salvo range at which it is perfectly detected by the Sukhoi, either from the front or from the rear. The Americans themselves have repeatedly stated this. As for what I wrote above, I simply drew Wildcat's attention to the fact that his writings regarding the alleged confrontation between the F-22 and the Su: "They went head-to-head. That is, everything was like in a war. Everything was unfair. In all cases, the F-22 out-fought our fighters. Very confidently and without strain.", to put it mildly, are not true, since there was no confrontation, the Americans simply left.
                  1. +2
                    April 11 2025 08: 22
                    Quote: bug120560
                    What are you saying? Did you read the articles carefully or did you just skip a line? Both articles focus on explaining the reasons why the F-22s left the flight zone after the Sukhois appeared.

                    None of these articles indicate that the F-22s left the flight zone after the Su appeared.
                    In the article you gave, for example, it is indicated
                    The best fighter jets from the US and Russia recently collided with each other in the skies near Alaska - and if If a fight had broken out, preference would have been given to the Russian aircraft.

                    And that's it. Another opinion is given by Berke, who said that in a war he would not get into close combat at all, since the F-22/35 can outwork a 4th generation aircraft without entering it.
                    Quote: bug120560
                    but even I know that the new Sukhoi fighters have radars with the ability to view the rear hemisphere.

                    The Su-30 and 35 don't have this. It was planned for the Su-34, but I don't remember how it ended.
                    Quote: bug120560
                    Since the F-22 does not have long-range air-to-air missiles in its arsenal (it just won't fit in the internal compartment), it needs to approach to a salvo range at which it can be easily detected by the Sukhoi, either from the front or from the rear. This has been repeatedly stated by the Americans themselves.

                    They never wrote anything like that.
                2. +2
                  April 10 2025 23: 23
                  hi
                  Good evening!
                  IMHO, of course, but after
                  - "Even I know that the new Sukhoi fighters have radars with the ability to view the rear hemisphere"
                  - "the F-22 does not have long-range air-to-air missiles in its arsenal (it just doesn't fit in the internal compartment)"
                  - "he needs to get close enough to a volley distance, at which he can be easily detected by the Sukhoi, either from the front or from behind"

                  and so on,
                  I highly recommend using the following wording: "Due to the meaninglessness of your posts - the lack of understanding of the written text and disputes with arguments that you came up with yourself - I do not communicate with you (I will explain, if you have not noticed, since for some reason you are contacting me for the second time).

                  I kindly ask you not to write to me, but to read something about the SUBJECT yourself, so as not to cause further disgust towards your...uh... writing... with your...uh... statements."


                  You'll run out of beads before the character realizes anything.
                  request
                  IMHO.
                  1. +3
                    April 11 2025 08: 34
                    Good morning!
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    You'll run out of beads sooner.

                    Anything is possible:) I tried:))))))
      2. kig
        +4
        April 9 2025 12: 15
        Quote: bug120560
        could you please share the links

        The question should be addressed to a certain Fighterbomber in Telegram, since wildcat quoted him.
        1. +8
          April 9 2025 12: 33
          hi
          You see, unlike the author of the article, Fighterbomber was in the SAR as a pilot and, most likely, was aware of the events that took place there.
          Questions should be asked about medium and long range, but IMHO, it will be really bad here (although it can’t get any worse) due to the detection range.
          request
          1. -5
            April 9 2025 13: 31
            Dear Wildcat, I asked for a link to specific information, not your speculations about the presence and participation of the author of the FighterBomber channel in the fighting in Syria. And for your information, the author of FighterBomber is a former military navigator of bomber aviation.
            1. +2
              April 9 2025 14: 19
              Due to the senselessness of your posts - the lack of understanding of the written text and arguments with arguments that you came up with yourself - I am not communicating with you (I am explaining this in case you haven’t noticed, since this is the second time you are contacting me for some reason).

              I kindly ask you not to write to me, but to read something about the SUBJECT yourself, so as not to cause further disgust towards your...uh... writing... with your...uh... statements.
          2. +4
            April 9 2025 21: 16
            Quote: Wildcat
            You see, unlike the author of the article, Fighterbomber was in the SAR as a pilot

            Russian blogger FighterBomber is actually a former military navigator who flew Su-34. He visited Syria, naturally not as a pilot.

            The thoughts of a former Su-22 bomber navigator about the combat capabilities of the F-34A... well, that's just it.

            A more competent opinion about the F-22A's capabilities in aerial combat can be voiced by a retired fighter pilot, but not by a bomber navigator.

            As for the author of the article... to write that the MiG-31 has an AESA radar, and the F-22A has Pratt & Whitney F100 engines...

            Before publishing, the author of the article should give his articles to someone who is more or less knowledgeable about modern military aviation to proofread so that he can remove such "childish" factual errors in the matter of material.
            1. +2
              April 9 2025 23: 35
              IMHO, it is clear that "we will never know the whole truth". And even more so, there will be no paper with a seal on this topic.

              But in terms of information delivery, Fighterbomber is quite reliable. All his "blunders", such as photos or videos from computer simulations that he took for real, are quickly revealed and he admits his mistakes.

              Is he a reliable source in this case? Considering his stay in the SAR, and also the fact that no one rushed to refute him in this post - yes, he is quite reliable.

              As for the author of the article...
              Oh well... he runs this forum - and that's good for now. In any case, in the comments, as a rule, all the "controversial points" are discussed more than once.
              1. 0
                April 10 2025 12: 55
                Quote: Wildcat
                Is he a reliable source in this case? Considering his stay in the SAR, and also the fact that no one rushed to refute him in this post - yes, he is quite reliable.

                IMHO, the reliability of FB as a source of information was clearly demonstrated in the topic "Why aren't we destroying the bridges across the Dnieper?" This question is precisely in the area of ​​FB's professional competence as a bomber navigator. And I suppose you are aware of how FB has been spreading on this topic for a long time in the style of: "Because we can't." And let's be honest, FB gave an incorrect answer to the question.

                What about the Su-35S and F-22A in the skies of the Syrian Arab Republic? All the "arguments" took place at a distance of visual visibility, where the F-22A has no advantage over the Su-35S, no matter what FB wrote on this topic.

                It is worth honestly admitting that close-range maneuverable air combat is an unlikely tactical scenario for the F-22A.

                https://military.wikireading.ru/h1MSqR4083

                "If the F-22 gets into a dogfight while banking at nine G's, we've done something wrong," the program's leaders argued.

                The Raptor was supposed to win in long-range missile air combat while remaining invisible and, therefore, invulnerable to enemy fighters."

                A close maneuverable air battle between jet fighters of generations 4+, 4++ and 5 is today an unlikely scenario. As far as I know, not a single close maneuverable air battle between fighters has occurred during the entire period of the SVO.
                1. +1
                  April 10 2025 17: 29
                  I didn't quite understand your argument about bridges.
                  Bridges destroyed and the left bank of the Dnieper isolated?

                  Regarding the second argument about the expected advantages in the DVB, you and I have no disagreement, IMHO.

                  Regarding the BVB - undoubtedly, the F22 will use the fight at "long and medium" (evaluation categories, conditionally DVB) distances as the main type of combat, where it can already attack, but it is not yet. An unpleasant surprise was that in the BVB "It was like a war. Everything was unfair.
                  In all cases, the F-22 outperforms our fighters. Very confidently and effortlessly."
                  (c) Firebomber.

                  Regarding your argument "at the distance of visual visibility, where the F-22A has no advantage over the Su-35S, no matter what FB writes on this topic" - Well, there is information from Fighterbomber and from you. With all due respect - without additional arguments Fighterbomber looks more reliable.

                  A close maneuverable air battle between jet fighters of generations 4+, 4++ and 5 is today an unlikely scenario. As far as I know, not a single close maneuverable air battle between fighters has occurred during the entire period of the SVO.
                  A difficult question, IMHO. The demise of the BVB has been announced so many times and still since Vietnam the BVB has returned. The SVO still has specific conditions, especially because of the air defense.

                  But in other conditions, IMHO, such as the Middle East, confrontation with the 5th generation may just require rapprochement to the BVB, with the aim of using heat-seeking missiles and guns in conditions of problems with radar guidance.
                  In general, the descriptions of the Ethiopia-Eritrea battles (Mig29 vs. Su27) talk about exactly this.
                  1. -2
                    April 11 2025 02: 06
                    The firebomber looks more authentic

                    Leave the pensioner alone, he monetizes as best he can. Appealing to his authority as an argument does not work. Get out of this on your own. hi
                  2. +2
                    April 11 2025 11: 16
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    I didn't quite understand your argument about bridges.
                    Bridges destroyed and the left bank of the Dnieper isolated?

                    There is a "red line" running through three years of narratives in a personal Telegram channel, a response from FB on why our aviation does not attack bridges across the Dnieper:

                    https://topwar.ru/198825-pochemu-po-istecheniju-chetyreh-mesjacev-svo-ne-unichtozheny-mosty-cherez-dnepr.html

                    "Why, after four months of the SVO, the bridges across the Dnieper have not been destroyed

                    ...This is what the author of the Telegram channel Fighterbomber writes about, in particular:.." July 11, 2022

                    https://t.me/fighter_bomber/18888

                    "In the early voting, by a huge margin, the point that does not exist - "Bridges across the Dnieper" - wins. Strategic Missile Forces, now this is your headache.)" November 23, 2024

                    How FB has been answering this question on behalf of all domestic military aviation for 3 years. You better form your own opinion.

                    https://monetam.livejournal.com/2023700.html

                    "...Since February 24, the Telegram channels have been howling "We must destroy the bridges across the Dnieper!" Probably the only voice of saneness was the Fighterbomber channel, run by a retired military pilot. He wrote something like this: the bridge is a truss structure, the blast wave will mostly bypass these beams. To destroy the span, you need a very powerful explosion, and for it to happen very close to the structure. Doing this with aerial bombs or missiles is not completely impossible, but very, very difficult..."

                    This question definitely lies within the scope of FB's professional competence as a Su-34 navigator-operator (and FB rose to the position of squadron navigator during his flying career, if my memory serves me right). And in my opinion, FB has been persistently giving his audience the wrong answer for three years.

                    For this reason, to be honest, I am not very interested in how FB answers “near-aviation” questions that lie somewhat outside the scope of his competence as a navigator-operator of a front-line bomber.
                    Regarding the second argument about the expected advantages in the DVB, you and I have no disagreement, IMHO.

                    You are free of a flaw that I constantly notice in myself. I forget to note what I agree with the other person on and always focus on disagreements.
                    An unpleasant surprise was that in the BVB "everything was like in a war. Everything was unfair. In all cases, the F-22s outclassed our fighters. Just like that, very confidently and without any tension." (c) Fighterbomber

                    As you understand, on this issue FB could only retell "stories from the smoking room".

                    I think you will agree that in the SAR sky everything was "not like in war", because in war they do not interfere with combat approaches by dangerous maneuvering and shooting off heat traps. In war they shoot down. And the F-22A pilot would shoot down his target from distances "where he can already attack, but he is not there yet".

                    But it is impossible to understand that: "In all cases, the F-22 out-guns our fighters. Very confidently and effortlessly" without launching missiles and hitting them.

                    I'm not even sure that having stumbled upon the abbreviation TWS (track while scan), FB will immediately understand what I'm talking about or not. But I believe you will agree with me that the operation of the radar of a fighter of a still potential enemy in TWS mode does not mean "in all cases once////l". But that's exactly what would have happened in the situation "Everything was like in a war. Everything was unfair."

                    I hope I have managed to explain why I do NOT consider FB's opinion on the issues of air combat of modern fighters worthy of attention.

                    And yes, as is known, the Americans launched air-to-air missiles in the skies over the Syrian Arab Republic.

                    https://vz.ru/news/2017/6/19/875090.html

                    It is noteworthy that the first missile did not hit the Syrian Air Force Su-22, which is NOT equipped with a modern onboard defense system and generally does not maneuver very well.

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

                    "It was the first aerial kill of a crewed aircraft by a U.S. fighter since 1999, the first by a Navy aircraft since the 1991 Gulf War, the first kill by a Super Hornet, and the third kill by an F/A-18. The E-3 Sentry issued multiple warnings to the Su-22, and after it dropped its bombs near the SDF force, an F/A-18E piloted by Lt. Col. Michael "MOB" Tremel, a pilot assigned to the 87th Strike Fighter Squadron aboard the carrier George Bush, made its own decision to shoot it down based on established rules of engagement. The F/A-18E initially missed with an AIM-9X Sidewinder, then hit the Su-22 with an AIM-120 AMRAAM; the engagement lasted eight minutes."

                    This is a real air battle in the sky over the SAR. And when I superimpose this reality on "in all cases once////l" from FB, I have to admit that either reality or FB is lying.

                    If after the arguments I have presented "The Fighterbomber looks more credible", well, so be it. Reality, as a rule, does not correspond to our ideas about it. And we do not have sufficient statistics on combat launches of air-to-air missiles from American fighters over the past 25 years for me, with statistical calculations in hand, to refute the argument "in all cases once////l" from the speech of a retired navigator-operator of a frontline bomber. wink
                    A difficult question, IMHO. The demise of the BVB has been announced so many times, and yet since Vietnam, the BVB has returned.

                    Since the Vietnam War, the BVB has only shrunk. The last BVB battles involving fighter aircraft took place, if my memory serves me right, in 1999, in the war between Sudan and Eritrea. And the last fighter shot down in the BVB by an aircraft cannon... it was probably either the Falklands War of 1982, or the air clashes between the Syrian and Israeli Air Forces in the same year of 1982.

                    Correct me if you remember a later jet fighter shot down by cannon fire from another fighter. Maybe something like that happened in the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988.
                    But in other conditions, IMHO, such as the Middle East, confrontation with the 5th generation may just require rapprochement to the BVB, with the aim of using heat-seeking missiles and guns in conditions of problems with radar guidance.

                    In battles with air targets that are not capable of putting up serious resistance (obsolete attack aircraft, UAVs, helicopters), there will continue to be cases of air-to-air combat, and even shooting down by cannon fire, but if we are talking about air combat between fighters, and fairly modern fighters at that (5th generation against 5th, 5th generation against 4++, combat between 4++ generation fighters), during a real war, the transition of air combat to close maneuvering is unlikely.
                  3. +1
                    April 12 2025 11: 48
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    Bridges destroyed and the left bank of the Dnieper isolated?

                    And yes, I forgot to add. The military only does what is allowed by the political leadership. Unfortunately, not everyone in Russia understands this - but only the Bandera Kiev regime is waging a total war, within the limits of its limited capabilities, in the current military confrontation.

                    On our side, it is not even a limited war that is taking place, but rather a military special operation.

                    Not leaving cities in territories controlled by the Kyiv regime completely without electricity, running water and sewage, not destroying bridges across the Dnieper is a political decision of the highest leadership of Russia.

                    The Russian Armed Forces have military means and the ability to destroy all bridges across the Dnieper, and without involving the Strategic Missile Forces. Even if for almost three years the exact opposite has been stated on this topic by a former Su-34 navigator-operator "retired" (although by age he should be a reserve officer) speaking under the English-language pseudonym Fighterbomber.
              2. 0
                April 10 2025 22: 43
                Quote: Wildcat
                and also the fact that no one rushed to refute it in this post

                There is nothing to refute there. It is a set of words. You can read Kondaurov about the F-5E and MiG-21, read Ilyin and watch Kharchevsky about the F-15 and Su-27. There is a completely different language, completely different from the language of this blogger. From Kondaurov, Ilyin, Kharchevsky you can understand what happened. Even the original material about the Rafale and Su-35 in Egypt uses terms that clearly define the event. But the blogger has some kind of set of words, not a single term. It is impossible to understand the event from this set of words.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +2
        April 9 2025 17: 02
        We have not had simple Su-27s in service for a long time, we have about 50 Su-27SM (SM3) left according to foreign information. Almost 200 aircraft suddenly disappeared?
        https://aviation21.ru/sostav-boevoj-aviacii-vks-rossii-na-2023-god/
        https://aviation21.ru/sostav-boevogo-aviaparka-vks-rossii-na-2020-god/
        Su-27/Su-30/Su-35 were 429 in 2020, and became 242 in 2021?
        We have 240 Mig-29 and 274 Su-24M, but where are they? And how can we occupy 2nd place in the world if we have 700 aircraft on paper only for 3 types? And let these be estimates! However.
        1. 0
          April 10 2025 23: 17
          Quote: Okko777
          We have not had simple Su-27s in service for a long time, we have about 50 Su-27SM (SM3) left according to foreign information. Almost 200 aircraft suddenly disappeared?

          but the percentage of new equipment immediately increased!
      5. +4
        April 9 2025 18: 14
        Quote: bug120560
        The Raptors behaved quite brazenly, clearly interfering with the flight, but when a pair of Su-35Ss "attached" themselves to their tail, they simply rushed to their shores like madmen,

        Another "Donald Cook". Maybe enough fables? Or does believing in fairy tales about our "miracle weapons" and "cowardly Yankees" seem like a safer/patriotic thing to do, like "we're in the house"?
        With R.V. Skomorokhov everything has long been clear - just a graphomaniac without education. Reading his articles is useless at the very least, harmful at the most. Compared to R.V., Charles Perrault looks like an advanced adherent of socialist realism.
        1. 0
          April 10 2025 04: 07
          Why did the story with Donald Cook suddenly become a fable?
          1. +1
            April 11 2025 08: 33
            Quote from The Watcher
            Why did the story with Donald Cook suddenly become a fable?

            Because this is a fable. The Su-24 never had the Khibiny missiles that allegedly blinded the Cook. The Khibiny missiles don't blind at all, they have a different job. And the Pentagon representative called their work intimidating and unacceptable. And it seems that, literally, "They demoralize the ship's personnel and negatively affect the overall psychological climate among the military personnel," but there was no talk about any 27 people who resigned.
    2. +1
      April 10 2025 20: 34
      Quote: Wildcat
      And I will remind you that so far we do not have a single combat regiment armed with Su-57." (c) Fighterbomber

      https://t.me/fighter_bomber/20346 Тем, кто хочет "первоисточник"! ))))
      1. 0
        April 10 2025 20: 37
        "Everything written on this channel is the author's invention, all coincidences are accidental. All photos and videos on the channel are photoshopped, dickpic and edited.
        The author was written off for health reasons, he doesn’t say the diagnosis, so maybe there is a certificate there (and there is one).
        Take this into account in anonymous letters and reports."


        Well, something like this...
        request
  3. 0
    April 9 2025 05: 37
    And experience is the son of mistakes, difficult? Yes, it didn't work out or it did, this is good, we'll leave this, and this is not necessary, we'll remove, there is also the opinion of the pilot, engineering services, the accountant, finally, is it expensive or not. All the same, we must try to move forward. I liked the article. Thank you.
  4. +14
    April 9 2025 05: 57
    yes, it could be AFAR (which has been on the MiG-31 since 1981

    AFAR is still exotic on Russian aircraft. Where did it come from on a MiG in 1981?
    1. MSN
      +9
      April 9 2025 08: 40
      The author is not aware of the existence of active and passive FAR. Heard a beautiful word and wrote it. Maybe I should tell him about Wikipedia?
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD_(%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80)
      "Zaslon" is a Doppler pulse radar with passive scanning grating
      1. -10
        April 9 2025 13: 41
        The missiles fly at a speed of 6m, but the MiG-31 can easily escape them.
  5. +9
    April 9 2025 05: 59
    Well, it's not just the fifth generation that can be classified as a "dead-end branch". If you only highlight the shortcomings, ignoring the advantages, which are usually more numerous, then you can send everything to the "dead-end branch". That's when the primitive club will become the standard of armament.
  6. +15
    April 9 2025 06: 00
    Fifth-generation aircraft as a dead-end branch of aviation development

    Translate Skomorokhov into Chinese! They've already started creating the 6th generation and don't know that it's all bullshit!
    Tell the Emperor that the English do not clean their guns with bricks: let them not clean ours either, otherwise, God forbid, they are no good for shooting.
    1. +2
      April 9 2025 22: 02
      Translate Skomorokhov into Chinese!

      Topvar is also published in Chinese. But the Chinese seem not to be interested.
      https://zh-cn.topwar.ru/262629-samolet-pjatogo-pokolenija-kak-tupikovaja-vetv-razvitija-aviacii.html
      1. 0
        April 10 2025 06: 08
        Quote from solar
        Topvar is also published in Chinese. But the Chinese seem not to be interested.

        Wow... I didn't know that, thanks.
    2. +2
      April 9 2025 23: 19
      Skomorokhov's brilliant message is that all these F-22 and F-35 and B2- and B-21 and F-117 are all fakes, non-working machines, just to deceive all competitors and force them to throw away huge amounts of money on creating analogues and go broke!
  7. +13
    April 9 2025 06: 12
    Read Skomorokhov: tanks are already, artillery in general everything, ships, yes, on needles, planes are a complete nonsense and involuntarily you come to the conclusion, in time, or rather back, to bows and arrows, although here, the author will write, then all this is a dead end and a waste
  8. +3
    April 9 2025 06: 22
    It would be better if you were a mechanic, or some kind of welder, or at worst a policeman, but not a drummer...
    sad
  9. Eug
    +7
    April 9 2025 06: 29
    Cruising supersonic with the RV "hidden" in the compartments, in my opinion, would be very useful for the "successor" of the MiG-31 for a quick and at the same time economical (relatively) exit to the missile launch line (before the "separation" of the target). AESA - too, with special low-noise and jamming modes. It is not a fact that EVERYTHING attributed to the 5th generation will be widely used in reality, but it is also not a fact that NOTHING will find application. In my opinion, acquiring engineering experience on a complex problem, even if negative and expensive, is useful for the future(s)
    generation(s) of developers. I was interested in the info from FB - it seems he hasn't been seen in fairy tales before, but here... I haven't seen anything like this anywhere on aviation resources. But I believe him 70-75%, although it's not a joy.
  10. +4
    April 9 2025 06: 38
    I disagree, the 5th generation is only needed as a strike aircraft to overcome air defense destruction, but the 4++ Su-35 and MiG-31BM cope well with all tasks, and the MiG-41 is needed am
  11. +2
    April 9 2025 06: 39
    Yes....you have to make a choice between "expensive, rich" and "cheap, but cheerful". The exorbitant cost of some military equipment turned out to be a stumbling block for its use in real combat.
  12. +11
    April 9 2025 06: 42
    Unfortunately, our people bought it and spent a simply mind-boggling amount of money on killer satellites, combat shuttles, space military stations, lasers, etc. Well, what all this led to against the backdrop of a simultaneous orchestrated fall in oil prices, you all understand – we live in a different country.

    In general, the entire space program of the USSR is a complete decline and a road to the grave. (Sarcasm)
    All of this was created before SDI, and some things MUCH earlier. And it was certainly not the expenditures on space, even military space, that led to the Union's demise.
    1. +6
      April 9 2025 11: 01
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      In general, the entire space program of the USSR is a continuous decline and a road to the grave.

      But if without sarcasm, then the USSR lunar program was definitely an elegant way of squandering budget funds. First, in the E-6 program "Soft landing on the Moon" at the cost of 11 unsuccessful launches in a row, they bring 2 AMS in a row to a soft landing. Hurray, the system seems to work reliably.
      And then, in the E-8-5 program "Delivery of Lunar Soil" they change the launch vehicle! And everything starts all over again! Moreover, by the fourth launch it was already clear that the booster block was not finished. But the launches continued. And if in E-6 the failures gradually went further along the trajectory, then in E-8-5 the penultimate AMS was lost again due to an accident of the booster block.
      In general, the AMS lunar program resembled a game on a "one-armed bandit" - in the hope of winning if the reels of all systems miraculously get into the "work" position. But in addition to the financial damage, there would also be reputational damage - "and again the soviet can't go into space".
      1. +1
        April 9 2025 11: 30
        Quote: Alexey RA
        But if we are not being sarcastic, then the USSR's lunar program was definitely an elegant way of squandering budget funds... And then, in the E-8-5 "Delivery of Lunar Soil" program, they change the launch vehicle!

        There is no need to exaggerate. There have been and will be accidents. Especially since the launch vehicle was replaced with a more advanced one, with a larger payload, which later launched stations to Venus and Mars.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        The AMS lunar program resembled a game of one-armed bandit
        Well, that means the Americans were luckier in this game. Maybe like in the joke about the winning card.
        1. +3
          April 9 2025 19: 23
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          There is no need to exaggerate. Accidents have happened and will happen.

          11 in a row in the E-6 program. And 8 in the E-8-5 program.
          Most of the Soviet lunar program's spacecraft did not even receive the proper name "Luna" because they did not reach the Moon.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Moreover, the RN was replaced with a more advanced one.

          Yep... perfect. The E-8-5 program failed to achieve even two consecutive successful launches. The penultimate AMS of the program simply did not reach orbit - again due to the failure of the booster block:
          On October 16, 1975, at 17:04 (Moscow time), the Proton-K (8K82K) launch vehicle was supposed to launch the E-8-5M No. 412 station into orbit, but due to an accident during the first ignition of the propulsion system of the upper stage D, the station did not reach orbit.

          This was the last straw - and, having achieved the last successful launch, the program was shut down.
          1. 0
            April 10 2025 03: 26
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Yeah... perfect.

            This does not always mean reliable.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            This was the last straw - and, having achieved the last successful launch, the program was shut down.

            So, did the Americans continue their lunar program?
            What's there in Earth's orbit? Gap after gap?
            Venus, Mars?
    2. -1
      April 9 2025 11: 05
      that's right... the system self-destructed for some unknown reason, maybe because of jeans with chewing gum, maybe because of something else...
      1. 0
        April 9 2025 11: 32
        Quote: VTOL helicopter
        the system self-destructed for some unknown reason, maybe because of jeans with chewing gum, maybe because of something else...

        Well, if you don’t remember anything except jeans and chewing gum, then there’s no point in reminding you about Gorby and Chevy.
        1. +5
          April 9 2025 11: 46
          agree that a good system should not be destroyed because of one or two idiots in management?
          1. +5
            April 9 2025 12: 49
            When the current system collapses due to lack of valuable specialists. What will you say then?
            1. -2
              April 9 2025 13: 52
              By valuable specialists you mean yourself, of course? Don't flatter yourself...
              1. +2
                April 9 2025 15: 22
                I cannot be a valuable specialist because I do not practice Islam.
                1. +1
                  April 9 2025 17: 26
                  in fact, the ussr got along just fine without them, but it all ended with the exodus of Russian speakers from the ussr, apparently valuable specialists outwitted the communists, so to speak, "stabbed them in the back"
          2. 0
            April 9 2025 16: 23
            Quote: VTOL helicopter
            agree that a good system should not be destroyed because of one or two idiots in management?

            Are you talking about Tsarist Russia? Or maybe the British Empire? Or maybe there were more idiots, or rather opponents, and what's more important, they did some serious shit on the outside? For example, they do some serious shit now.
            1. -2
              April 9 2025 17: 04
              exactly, they spoiled us with their high standard of living - color TVs, VCRs, cars, etc... (I almost forgot about the 40 types of sausage) if anything, this is sarcasm - I didn't need all of the above
              1. 0
                April 9 2025 17: 29
                Quote: VTOL helicopter
                That's right, they spoiled us with their high standard of living - color TVs, VCRs, cars, etc.

                It's funny, but it seems you consider the activities of Western intelligence services against the USSR a fairy tale. And is it a fairy tale now? I don't think you're from this reality...
                1. -1
                  April 9 2025 17: 31
                  Well, since you are so correct, share: is everything you have been using lately domestic?
                  1. 0
                    April 10 2025 03: 23
                    Quote: VTOL helicopter
                    Well, since you are so correct, share: is everything you have been using lately domestic?

                    Why are you asking about now? The complaint to the USSR was about gum, jeans, TVs? What kind of leak is this?
                    Our family had a car and a color TV until 1985. There was no VCR. But there was some monster in the store that was more expensive than a motorcycle. And there was plenty of meat and sausages in the cooperative.
                    So the realities are really different. And mine is more real...
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    It's funny, but it seems you consider the activities of Western intelligence services against the USSR a fairy tale. And is it still a fairy tale now?

                    So is it a fairy tale or not?
                    1. -1
                      April 10 2025 10: 04
                      So is it a fairy tale or not?

                      maybe you can give an example? in all the biggest disasters at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, for example, no traces of Western intelligence agencies were found, and by the way, in the West there were also comparable disasters, but this did not lead to a change in the social system in their countries
                      1. 0
                        April 10 2025 10: 17
                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        For example, no traces of Western intelligence agencies were found in the Chernobyl disasters

                        Yeah, the example with TVs didn’t work, let’s bring in Chernobyl.
                        You seem to be unaware of broadcasting to the USSR, or of support for nationalists from Armenians to Banderites, or of dissidents. Or of the imposed arms race, which you were not at all embarrassed to talk about. What do you even know about?
                        Do you think that only spies with dynamite could cause harm?
                        By the way, there is still no answer:

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        It's funny, but it seems you consider the activities of Western intelligence services against the USSR a fairy tale. And is it still a fairy tale now?
                        Now, how is it, they started helping, right? lol Democratic Russia...
                      2. -1
                        April 10 2025 10: 35
                        about the imposed arms race

                        And I wonder if they are still forcing it on the Chinese?
                    2. -1
                      April 10 2025 10: 13
                      Why are you asking about now?

                      Are the West's goals towards us now very different from those in Soviet times?
                      1. 0
                        April 10 2025 10: 18
                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        Are the West's goals towards us now very different from those in Soviet times?

                        So you immediately admit that you did harm then and now? S-sequence... laughing
                      2. -1
                        April 10 2025 10: 31
                        Why don't you admit that the influence of the West played a secondary role in the collapse in both 91 and 1917?
                      3. 0
                        April 10 2025 10: 44
                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        Why don't you admit that the influence of the West played a secondary role in the collapse in both 91 and 1917?

                        Because it's stupid. Because without outside pressure the USSR would not have collapsed.

                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        And I wonder if they are still forcing it on the Chinese?

                        What do the Chinese have to do with this? Do the Chinese have Ukrainian nationalists too?
                      4. -1
                        April 10 2025 11: 00
                        They have Uyghurs and Tibet
                        Because it's stupid. Because without outside pressure the USSR would not have collapsed.

                        and during WWII was there pressure from outside?
                        according to your logic there was no
                      5. 0
                        April 10 2025 11: 08
                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        They have Uyghurs and Tibet

                        Only in percentage terms these are penny tears. What, you don't know?

                        Quote: VTOL helicopter
                        and during WWII was there pressure from outside?
                        according to your logic there was no

                        Oh, what, they've already brought up the war, but is it not true that the issue was directly about the physical survival of not even the people, but the country's leadership? You're not aware of that either...
                        And the pressure was mutual, in case you weren’t aware of that.
                        But the late USSR, under the fairy tales about the divergence of systems (did you know?), exerted symbolic pressure on the West, with posters and peace initiatives.
                        So it’s not for you to talk about logic, with such knowledge.
                      6. 0
                        April 10 2025 11: 24
                        was it directly about the physical survival of not even the people, but the country's leadership?

                        You've now reached the point that the leadership's task was to survive at any cost, even without the people fool
  13. +8
    April 9 2025 06: 44
    Quote: air wolf
    I disagree, the 5th generation is only needed as a strike aircraft to overcome air defense destruction

    Azerbaijan used much cheaper An-2 crop dusters to destroy the air defense in Karabakh, which the Armenians spent their anti-aircraft missiles on, and it turned out that Pantsir can be destroyed by UAVs.
  14. +5
    April 9 2025 06: 51
    Technologies are developing, the flow of time is impossible to stop. Once upon a time, machine guns were also spoken of as useless ammunition guzzlers. The article is entertaining to read, easy to read, but...
  15. +6
    April 9 2025 07: 23
    As for stealth, don't forget that the US has separate squadrons of electronic warfare aircraft that are supposed to provide support to offensive aviation. The same F-117 was shot down because it was flying alone without any cover, this is already overconfidence, and here is the result. From the article I understood that soon everyone will start switching to gliders like the Wright brothers, and it flies low, and flies quietly, and is not visible on radar, and you can also slowly wave goodbye to the enemy's air defense dying with laughter...
    1. +4
      April 9 2025 11: 41
      Quote from turembo
      The same F-117 was shot down because it was flying alone without any cover, this is already overconfidence, and here is the result

      He flew the same route more than once and the air defense forces simply caught him in an ambush. Although this does not detract from the merits of our famous S-125 air defense missile system
    2. 0
      April 9 2025 21: 40
      Quote from turembo
      As for stealth, we should not forget that the US has separate squadrons of electronic warfare aircraft that are supposed to provide support to offensive aircraft.

      The US Air Force has seven operational EW aircraft in 2025: four EC-7H Compass Call and three brand new EA-130B Compass Call.

      The EC-130J Commando Solo III isn't exactly an EW aircraft, and the last one will be retired in 2024.

      https://simpleflying.com/last-2-usaf-193rd-special-operations-wing-ec-130s-final-flight/

      Thus, one should write about a squadron of electronic warfare aircraft in the US Navy, and not about squadrons.

      There are separate squadrons of Boeing EA-18G Growler electronic warfare aircraft in the US Navy Aviation. A squadron of 6 aircraft, if my memory serves me right, per carrier air wing of a nuclear aircraft carrier.
  16. +6
    April 9 2025 07: 40
    What all this led to against the backdrop of a simultaneous orchestrated fall in oil prices, you all understand – we live in a different country.
    But here everything is thrown together, don't confuse the warm with the soft. If SDI had anything to do with the collapse of the USSR, it was only as one of the justifications for the actions of the domestic destroyers.
  17. +3
    April 9 2025 08: 25
    It is clear that humanity has reached the point of its dead-end development; further regression will begin, although it is already underway.
  18. +12
    April 9 2025 09: 10
    I read it and it felt like the article was made to order to justify yet another failure in the production and delivery of the SU-57 within the previously announced timeframe and quantity, along the lines of "we don't really need your fifth generation, we'll get by just fine with the fourth." That's how it is...
    1. +9
      April 9 2025 11: 48
      Do you remember the articles about Armata? In two parts, part one. Armata, we'll sweep everyone away, there are no analogues, part two.. Oats (Armata) are expensive these days, we'll make do with cheaper ones.
      1. +4
        April 9 2025 14: 56
        I remember, how could I not remember, and after that they launched the T-62 and even the T-54/55...
  19. +5
    April 9 2025 09: 17
    Very controversial theses.
    Regarding the "arms race" - there is no evidence that there was any exorbitant growth in spending in the 80s, this is a nonsense myth that removes responsibility for the collapse of the country from those directly responsible.
    nearly invisible
    The F117 was shot down from a distance of less than 15 kilometers, from such a distance the plane can be seen even visually without any instruments. Now most of the bombs are dropped from distances of 70-100 km.
    And invisibility in this regard is a very necessary characteristic!
    "This supersonic speed does not provide any advantages over other aircraft" - even a small advantage in speed will allow intercepting 4th generation aircraft when they attempt to fly up to the drop line
    Even in its current form, it is high time to launch the Su57 into serial production, and improve its characteristics in subsequent modifications.
    The Su-57 and the Okhotnik UAV were operating over enemy territory in the Kramatorsk area when the connection with the drone was lost. The Su-57 had to shoot down the wingman drone, but after that it returned back unhindered despite the abundance of SAMP-T, Patriots and Nasams, which already says a lot.
  20. +6
    April 9 2025 09: 22
    And when was this AFAR installed on the Mig31 in the 20th century or now? Has anyone heard of it? PFAR at best.
  21. -3
    April 9 2025 09: 29
    Can you call a UAV that flies at 8M and overloads of 30G? Well, and classifying 4th generation aircraft as 6th is funny. The article is certainly humorous, but it is filled with bloopers. The main difference of the 5th generation is its huge price and complexity of operation. In the modern world, 4 is enough.
    1. +2
      April 9 2025 10: 17
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      The main difference of the 5th generation is the huge price and complexity of operation. In the modern world, 4 is enough.


      No longer.
      Modern 4th generation aircraft of the Lao Aerospace Forces cannot provide air superiority even in the absence of enemy aircraft. The concept and tactics of their use are not capable of this.
      At best, this is throwing the UMPK from your territory.
      Accordingly, there is no talk of any truly necessary massive strikes deep in enemy territory.
      1. 0
        April 9 2025 21: 50
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Modern 4th generation aircraft of the Lao Aerospace Forces cannot provide air superiority even in the absence of enemy aircraft. The concept and tactics of their use are not capable of this.

        Let us turn to the dictionary definition of the concept of air supremacy.

        https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/gospodstvo-v-vozduhe-istoriya-i-perspektivy

        "Air supremacy is the decisive superiority of the aviation of one of the warring parties in a theater of military operations or in a strategic (operational) direction (in an area), allowing the ground forces, naval forces, air forces and the rear of the country to carry out their tasks without significant opposition from enemy aircraft."

        Such air superiority is fully ensured in the absence of enemy aircraft.

        Enemy FPV drones are not enemy aircraft. And it is clearly not 4th, 5th or any other generation of manned jet fighters that should be fighting FPV drones.
        1. 0
          April 10 2025 14: 15
          Now we read further the link you provided and understand... that the air supremacy of our air force can be limited by the enemy's air defense forces, that is, in essence, air defense also plays a role in ensuring this very supremacy. Consequently, while we cannot suppress the enemy's air defense, we cannot achieve air supremacy... since we are not able to freely influence the deep rear of Ukraine with large-scale air strikes
          1. 0
            April 10 2025 16: 19
            Quote: Sanguinius
            Now we read further the link you provided and understand...that the air supremacy of our air forces can be limited by the enemy's air defense forces, that is, in essence, air defense also plays a role in ensuring this very supremacy.

            Did you draw this conclusion based on this quote?

            "The task of participating in the struggle for air supremacy and the concept corresponding to it have always existed in our Air Forces - both Soviet and Russian, as well as in the Air Forces of other countries.
            In the Air Defense Forces of the country, such a concept was not used - other concepts were used there (repelling air strikes, anti-aircraft missile defense, fighter aviation cover, etc.). But does this mean that the Air Defense Forces did not participate in the struggle for air supremacy? Unfortunately, it must be stated that the unification of the Air Force and the Air Defense Forces (of the country) into a single branch of the Armed Forces did not even lead to a single terminology, not to mention a single understanding of the essence of the tasks being solved.
            Meanwhile, it is the struggle for air supremacy that is essentially integral, unifying, or, more accurately, the only truly common task of aviation and air defense forces. This was the case, it remains so at present, and it will be so in the future. It is a great pity that many scientists of both the former Air Force and the former Air Defense Forces of the country did not notice this at the time (before unification) – obviously in the heat of departmental disagreements."


            Well, if we take into account that air defense also participates in the struggle for air superiority... then, for example, the US Air Force and US Navy Aviation did not have air superiority in the Vietnam War.

            And the dictionary definition in the formulations "...decisive superiority of aviation allowing the ground forces, naval forces, air force and the rear of the country to carry out their tasks without significant opposition from enemy aviation." should be reviewed in the direction "decisive air superiority" not only over aviation, but also over the enemy’s air defense, ensuring unhindered strikes by its aviation on the enemy’s military groups, naval forces, and economic infrastructure.

            However, there is no such definition of the term air supremacy in dictionaries yet.

            Moreover, it should be noted that even such absolute dominance in the air often cannot ensure victory in war.

            As an example, I can cite the Second Lebanon War of 2006, in which the Israeli air force had air superiority, no matter which way you look at it. As a second example, I can cite the war of the US and its allies in Afghanistan in 2001-2021. The US and its allies definitely had absolute air superiority, but the war with the Taliban was lost.
            1. 0
              April 11 2025 18: 53
              Well, if we take into account that air defense also participates in the struggle for air superiority... then, for example, the US Air Force and US Navy Aviation did not have air superiority in the Vietnam War.

              Well, there was no talk about Vietnam. That's first. Second, no one argues that the US couldn't completely become masters of the air there. But in Iraq, after working on the mistakes of the Vietnam War...they managed to ensure that.
              As a second example, I can cite the war of the US and its allies in Afghanistan in 2001-2021. The US and its allies definitely had absolute air supremacy, but the war with the Taliban was lost.

              Well, you think that the United States needed a military victory over the Taliban.
              1. 0
                April 12 2025 10: 53
                Quote: Sanguinius
                Well, there was no talk about Vietnam. That's first. Second, no one argues that the US couldn't completely become masters of the air there. But in Iraq, after working on the mistakes of the Vietnam War...they managed to ensure that.

                Iraq was not supported by any of the Great Powers, unlike Vietnam. In the NWO we have the Vietnamese case, not the Iraqi one.
                Well, you think that the United States needed a military victory over the Taliban.

                "Sour grapes" (C). Do you think they just strained there for 20 years?

                https://mtss.ru/pages/sharip/amer_concept.pdf

                "Based on the military operations carried out at the end of the 20th and the first years of the 21st century to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq within the framework of the "Greater Persian Gulf", Washington has openly begun to develop an even more global aggressive political plan - the "Greater Middle East". It envisages "pacifying" the entire
                the Greater Middle East region by establishing a pro-American “friendly collective democracy” in it, that is, the dominance of political regimes subordinate to the interests of the West.

                [...]

                The main authors of the concept of the "Greater Middle East" were representatives of the political elite - G. Kissinger, G. Dopret, D. Rumsfeld, D. Cheney, K. Rice, R. Perle, P. Wolfowitz, M. Grossman. In accordance with the concept they presented, it was asserted that Western democracy is a universal means of ensuring modernization, prosperity, justice and dialogue of cultures in the modern world. Therefore, the global task was set to create, on the basis of the "reconstruction" of the Middle East, a community that would fully meet
                national interests of the United States. The scope of the concept covered the countries of North Africa and Southwest Africa. Touching upon the Asian part of the concept, former US National Security Advisor Z. Brzezinski stated: "This would make it possible to influence
                the territories of the “Eurasian Balkans”, which included the South Caucasus, Central Asia, Afghanistan, Türkiye and Pakistan.”

                In general, the goals of Washington's policy in the Middle East over the last three to four decades can be figuratively described as a consistently implemented "Great Aggressive Program", which, being formalized within the framework of the region, envisaged win-win options for the outcome of such a policy for the United States and the West:

                1) the most successful - a completely redrawn map of existing state borders and territories, according to the idea of ​​the authors of "BBV";
                2) mediocre - partial re-division of the BSV along national and religious principles;
                3) minimal - a gain within the framework of the results already achieved up to the present moment (that is, up to the end of 2013).


                Political regimes subordinated to the interests of the West in Iraq and Afghanistan were held together only by American bayonets, and after the Americans left they melted "like snow in the Sahara". The American concept of the "Greater Middle East" born in the second half of the 90s, during the "unipolar geopolitical moment" has generally failed.

                Taking into account the beginning before our eyes of an open confrontation between "nationalists" and "globalists" within the West itself ("nationalists" have taken power in the USA today. The Democratic Party of the USA, the "vanguard" of globalist forces in the USA, suffered heavy defeats in the elections. Republicans today control not only the executive branch of the federal government of the USA, but also the legislative one. On the other side of the Atlantic, in the EU and Great Britain, "globalists" have dug in deep. In the conditions of a shrinking resource base, they will now find out who will remain in the "golden billion" and who will not, and by how much will they shrink, and what will the former billion be called later, "five hundred golden millions", "three hundred golden millions" or something else).

                It is time to start thinking seriously about long-term plans to evacuate the West’s “Israeli foothold” in the Middle East.
                1. 0
                  April 12 2025 20: 20
                  Iraq was not supported by any of the Great Powers, unlike Vietnam. In the NWO we have the Vietnamese case, not the Iraqi one.

                  So what next? Does this somehow justify our commanders sitting in the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense!?)))
                  For your information, during the first months of the SVO, the Ukrainian Armed Forces did not have such an intensive pumping of heavy weapons systems and equipment at all. So I do not understand what prevented us from preparing thoroughly for this armed conflict.
                  You just need to admit that there is a failure in the development of the Armed Forces not only before the start of the Second World War, but a failure in development as a whole!
                  1. 0
                    April 13 2025 17: 54
                    Quote: Sanguinius
                    So what next? Does this somehow justify our commanders sitting in the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense!?)))

                    There is no excuse for our commanders. They never knew how to do strategic bombing and demanded from aviation, first of all, direct air support - so that the infantry could see and be happy in their souls that our heavenly falcons were destroying the enemy's forward trenches from the air.
                    I don’t understand what prevented us from thoroughly preparing for this armed conflict.

                    Lack of understanding what kind of enemy they would have to face. They thought that fascists had taken power in Kyiv, like the Italians, Portuguese, Greeks in the end (the regime of the "black colonels"), etc. But the Kiev regime turned out to be Nazi.

                    Nazis (German Nazis, Finnish - as an example), unlike fascists, fight well. The Nazi narratives, appealing to ancient instincts, awaken in the common man a warlike bloodthirsty savage, and in the crowd a sense of belonging to a tribe that fights to the death "for blood and soil" with another tribe. With a tribe that: "If we are not us, then we are not people."
                    You just need to admit that there is a failure in the development of the Armed Forces not only before the start of the Second World War, but a failure in development as a whole!

                    “Russia was not ready for war,” some said.
                    - What's surprising here? - others answered them. — Has Russia ever been ready for anything? This is her natural state - to be constantly unprepared."
                    V.S. Pikul "Moonsund"
          2. 0
            April 10 2025 22: 32
            Quote: Sanguinius
            Now we read further the link you provided and understand...that the air supremacy of our air forces can be limited by the enemy's air defense forces, that is, in essence, air defense also plays a role in ensuring this very supremacy.

            It's better to look here, the official resource of the Russian Ministry of Defense:
            https://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/details.htm?id=5512%40morfDictionary
            AIR DOMINANCE
            such an air situation created by active actions of a combined Air Force in cooperation with associations of branches and arms of the Armed Forces during an air operation, in which the balance of forces of the opposing sides in the air and the conditions of action of their own aviation allow it to successfully perform the assigned combat missions, and troops (forces) of other branches and arms of the Armed Forces allow them to perform the assigned missions without encountering effective counteraction from the enemy's air attack assets and its air defense system. G. in v. can be won in a theater of military operations for a long time - strategic dominance, in a separate strategic or operational direction for the duration of the operation - operational dominance. Short-term seizure of the initiative in the air by an air unit, parts or separate formations in a limited area is usually called tactical. G. in v.

            And it turns out that there is air supremacy.
  22. +10
    April 9 2025 09: 33
    Oh, this next funeral of the 5th generation fighters, when will there be 6? The F-35 is already over 1000 units, the F-47 and F/A XX from the US as the 6th generation are already on the way, the Chinese have riveted more than 20 J-200 units, and are already making J-35 for the Air Force and Navy. And in the sky, as a gift to the Americans, since the New Year's Eve, the J-36 and J-XDS (J-50) have been flying alternately, already 6th generation fighters.

    And there is always one argument against stealth, that the Serbs shot down an F-117. How many times was it shot down? Once? And how many times was the F-117 used? More than several hundred combat sorties, and against normal Iraqi air defense in 1991.

    And recently, the Israelis paid a visit to Iran with their F-300s and targeted air defense points and radars. So much so that the British general began to feel euphoric that they could do something like that again, only on a larger scale against the Ayatollah regime.
  23. +9
    April 9 2025 09: 40
    Before this, there was a piece about the history of the F-14 (How Soviet intelligence "conned" their US colleagues into buying the plane). Everything was simple there: choking on disinformation, the Americans rushed to build their next plane with a variable-sweep wing, built crap that is now praised in movies with Tom Cruise.


    Yes, it seems we found out that these were just fantasies of the author (or authors) under the pseudonym Roman Skomorokhov.
  24. +12
    April 9 2025 09: 53
    Ah, Skomorokhov...everything is clear.
    IMHO, he wrote noodles. Another one.
    Probably profitable. Everyone will rush to refute, there will be many comments.
    1. +5
      April 9 2025 11: 09
      That's right...the erroneous opinion is being described on purpose so that the readers' asses explode...and to bait in the comments... hi ...all you need to know about local "analytics"...
  25. +11
    April 9 2025 09: 56
    Again twenty-five.

    Mixed everything together and put it all in one pile.
    He painted everything in broad strokes, WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING in specifics...
    Accordingly, he came up with something himself, he believed in what he had come up with, and he carried his faith to the masses.

    This is what the author doesn’t understand at all; in his universe there is no trace of this.
    Let's start with AFAR - AFAR itself can give nothing if there are no brains to use its capabilities.
    And there are many possibilities:
    - precisely positioned beam scanning with a very small angle (No need to shine on the whole world)
    - signal power control
    - the possibility of using AFAR as an electronic warfare system both with a point direction and point frequencies in the full range of AFAR radar capabilities, and a wideband
    - Noise-like signal LPI (possibility of active search, transmission of target designation to missiles, exchange of information with other aircraft)

    Supercruise is not only the precious 2-3 minutes gained for approaching the target, but also the engine resource. Which is not spent as in afterburner. The resource of a modern engine for a 5th generation aircraft should not notice supercruise at all. And the fuel consumption is not at all like afterburner in supercruise.

    Low visibility is not only a reduction in the detection range by radar (and it really changes many times between 4th and 5th generation aircraft) - 200 km and 40 km... But also a reduction in the detection range of the target by the homing head itself in missiles with an ARL-homing head or with an IR-homing head, right up to a complete failure of guidance... There are many such examples.
    The author's words about this:
    a wooden and fabric planet with gunpowder rocket engines, will be completely invisible to radar
    - they talk about ignorance of the material. It will be visible on modern radars. It will be.

    And so in all m author brings its alternative reality to the masses.
    Here you start to think about his psychological state.
    To twist reality like this, inside out, to white - to say that this is black, not to see the obvious, but to hear voices from the universe - this is probably trauma. psychological.
    1. +1
      April 9 2025 13: 13
      And there are many possibilities:
      - precisely positioned beam scanning with a very small angle (No need to shine on the whole world)
      The minimum beam width value is determined by the antenna dimensions and wavelength, and this value is the same for both AFA and conventional PAR.
      signal power control
      For what purposes? The maximum detection range will be at the maximum signal level.
      the possibility of using AFAR as an electronic warfare system with both a point direction and point frequencies in the full range of AFAR radar capabilities, as well as a broadband
      Radars of modern fighters operate in the three-centimeter range, and for example the 75th complex operates in the six-centimeter range, and with the help of the standard radar afar you will not create any interference in this range.
      LPI noise-like signal (capability of active search, transmission of target designation to missiles, exchange of information with other aircraft)
      There are no problems with detecting such a signal now, target designation for a missile was transmitted by a "non-simple" signal even before the appearance of AFARS, AFARS will not transmit information to another aircraft of its own located to the side or behind, but only in a certain zone of angles along its axis forward.
  26. +5
    April 9 2025 10: 06
    Before this, there was a piece about the history of the F-14 (How Soviet intelligence "conned" their US colleagues into buying the plane). Everything was simple there: choking on disinformation, the Americans rushed to build their next plane with a variable-sweep wing, and built crap

    I worry about our intelligence veterans. What if the brass reads Roman and believes that the F-14 was created by Soviet intelligence officers? Deserved people will go to Kolyma in their old age to chop down trees for nothing - they spent their whole lives trying to ensure that the Americans did not have planes like the F-14.
    1. +9
      April 9 2025 11: 18
      Quote from solar
      What if the authorities read Roman and believe that the F-14 was created by the efforts of Soviet intelligence officers?

      The author should write in the next article how cunningly the KGB gave the Americans the idea of ​​creating a processor.
  27. +1
    April 9 2025 10: 40
    Too much philosophy. And how else to call the planes - only by the time period of their development and production: 40-50s - first; 60s - second; 70s - third; 80s - fourth; 90s and early 00s - fifth. Based on this logic, the F-35 already belongs to the 6th generation. In general, the issue of any classification is very difficult in practice. Therefore, it is worth forgetting about these far-fetched generations and talking specifically - only about the performance characteristics and their development in the aircraft.
    1. +1
      April 9 2025 16: 52
      Quote: Yuri_K_Msk
      In general, the issue of any classification is very complex in practice.

      I will say more, in practice this whole classification has no meaning. Generations of fighters were invented by Lockheed Martin marketers when they were pushing the F-22. They fight with what they have, in the conditions they have. Discussions about "generations" are only in the media.
  28. +3
    April 9 2025 13: 46
    Our intelligence also gave the Americans the dead-end idea of ​​"stealth".
    Through the book of our physicist Petr Ufimtsev. He himself was later sent to the States to decompose Northrop Grumman from the inside. wink

    Here's how Ben Rich, head of the "Skunk works" that developed the F-117, describes it.

    Denis had found a nugget deep inside a thick book on radar written by a leading Soviet expert nine years earlier. The rather tedious book was called The Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction and had only recently been translated from Russian by the Air Force Foreign Technology Division. The author was Pyotr Ufimtsev, a leading scientist at the Moscow Institute of Radio Engineering.

    Here is a detailed description for those interested. recourse

    https://infl1ght.livejournal.com/48049.html
    1. -1
      April 10 2025 09: 58
      Now the author will read your comment and write a whole article)
  29. -3
    April 9 2025 14: 09
    Remembering the author's previous material, I kept wondering who had tricked whom. I even wrote a comment on this topic. Now I've figured it out - the Americans have fooled us again - now on cruising supersonic speed. It only exists on the F-22, which is being removed from service. How much chatter - the Su-57 does not have cruising supersonic speed - so it is not the 5th, but the 4th generation. So all these invented generations of aviation are empty words. For example. According to the criterion of speed and combat radius, the F-35 actually belongs to the first generation, everyone can put their own pluses to one. But in terms of the time of development and implementation of the project, it is really the 6th generation. All the numbers of generations of aviation are the lot of the mass media - they are basically not suitable for professional analysis.
  30. -3
    April 9 2025 14: 30
    if a swarm of mosquitoes is visible on the radar screen but the computer shows a speed of 2M, then it is clearly not a swarm of mosquitoes! And yes - if you detect this swarm several times, you can find patterns-fractals in the reflected signal and already know for sure that it is a profile. Well, and with the presence of a satellite group, there is nothing easier than illuminating from orbit - a shadow theater. If you do not see an airplane on the radar but see a shadow in the signal from the satellite - it is an airplane!
  31. +9
    April 9 2025 14: 43
    I award the Order of Propaganda, 1st degree. Comrade Roman, you deserve it. No one destroys enemy equipment with one article in the press as effectively as Comrade Roman. soldier
  32. osp
    -2
    April 9 2025 15: 14
    Quote: Setavr
    yes, it could be AFAR (which has been on the MiG-31 since 1981

    AFAR is still exotic on Russian aircraft. Where did it come from on a MiG in 1981?

    What was installed on the MiG-31 was the prototype of modern AFAR - fully electronic scanning and a fixed radar mirror.
    And this was a major breakthrough for Soviet electronic equipment designers.

    But the radars of the Su-30SM and even the Su-35S cannot boast of such things.
    Heavy hydromechanical frame for turning the antenna mirror.
    There is no fully electronic scanning there.
    And the fact that there is no AFAR is not even the main thing.
    The PFAR is not even of a modern level and not what was once made on the MiG-31.
    1. +2
      April 9 2025 16: 32
      There is no fully electronic scanning there.
      There is electronic scanning. The mechanics are used specifically for turning the web, and accordingly this sets the center of the electronic scanning zone, unlike the Americans with a fixed web. The greater the angle of deviation from the web axis, the greater the loss in the signal, and the turning is aimed at eliminating these losses, and not for "waving" the web in the review.
  33. osp
    0
    April 9 2025 15: 20
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: Victor Sergeev
    The main difference of the 5th generation is the huge price and complexity of operation. In the modern world, 4 is enough.


    No longer.
    Modern 4th generation aircraft of the Lao Aerospace Forces cannot provide air superiority even in the absence of enemy aircraft. The concept and tactics of their use are not capable of this.
    At best, this is throwing the UMPK from your territory.
    Accordingly, there is no talk of any truly necessary massive strikes deep in enemy territory.

    Do you know why this happened?
    Yes, because ALL aircraft of the Su-27 family have a large RCS.
    Especially for the Su-30SM and Su-34 due to the aerodynamic features of the horizontal stabilizer.
    If the X-31 "sticks" are also attached to the aircraft, the EPR can double.
    Therefore, such a combination cannot be used against Western air defense systems operating
    in LPI modes.

    The abandonment of light frontline fighter-bombers was a huge mistake.
    At least at the level of the MiG-29M2 or MiG-35.
    And even more of a mistake was the rejection of the single-engine Su-17M4 and MiG-27K with the "Kaira".
    They could still be used today.
    Much better than Su-25.
  34. -1
    April 9 2025 16: 24
    dead end branch
    What's the dead end? That the cruising speed is higher, that the visibility is lower, that the avionics are more advanced? It's just not the fifth generation, but an improved fourth.
    When a new generation actually appears, the old one has to be written off as unfit for professional use. Remember how quickly piston aircraft disappeared with the advent of jet aircraft. They simply had nothing to catch in the sky with the advent of the latter.
    This has not happened in our country yet, therefore the generation of aircraft has not changed yet, or, in other words, there is no fifth generation yet.
    1. +2
      April 9 2025 21: 01
      Remember how quickly piston aircraft disappeared with the advent of jet aircraft.

      MiG-15 and Su-35 - are they the same generation? They are both jets.
      1. 0
        April 10 2025 15: 52
        Compare the MiG-35 and the Su-35. A light and a heavy fighter. Is there a fundamental difference? Can they fight each other? The MiG-35 differs from the MiG-15 only in the upgrades made over the past period, nothing fundamental. An improved engine, avionics, a slightly more aerodynamic airframe and that's it. The upgraded Indian MiG-21s are quite capable of fighting Pakistani F-16s. These are aircraft of the same generation.
        1. 0
          April 11 2025 01: 18
          The modernized Indian MiG-21s are quite capable of fighting against Pakistani F-16s.

          More correctly, F-16s shoot down MiG-21s. Aircraft of different generations.
          The MiG-35 differs from the MiG-15 only in the upgrades made over the past period, nothing fundamental.

          You interpret it so freely, whether it is fundamental or not. In fact, all airplanes since the Wright brothers are similar.
          1. 0
            April 11 2025 09: 07
            The Wright brothers' airplanes - i.e. canvas, unmaneuverable gliders that could barely stay in the air - were the first generation.
            It was replaced by monoplanes with rigid surfaces, much more maneuverable and faster. The second generation. A completely different glider design. The first generation had absolutely nothing to catch against them.
            The third generation is all-metal jet aircraft, again a completely different airframe design, speed and maneuverability at all altitudes, not just at ground level. The second generation has absolutely nothing to catch against them.
            The fourth generation - aircraft that overcome air defense zones at supersonic speeds near the ground with terrain following and maneuvers with accelerations of over 30 g and leaving after delivering a strike at hypersonic speeds at high altitudes with maneuvers. It is clear that they are unmanned. Modern air defense and the third generation will also have nothing to catch against them.
            1. 0
              April 11 2025 10: 18
              You yourself do not see gaps in your classification or are you simply not very familiar with the history of aviation? The third generation includes the Me262 and Su-35. Yeah, same generation aircraft.
              I won't even mention 30 years for a manned aircraft; superhumans are needed to pilot it.
              1. 0
                April 11 2025 15: 21
                Firstly, no generation is replaced by an instant transition. There are always transitional models, for example, the Po-2 is a transition between the first and second generations, the MiG-15, Me262 are a transition between the second and third.
                Secondly
                more than 30 g and leaving after striking at hypersonic speeds at high altitudes with maneuvering. It is clear that they are unmanned.
                You are not reading carefully what I wrote.
  35. +4
    April 9 2025 16: 32
    Since when has the MIG 31 had an AFAR?
    1. 0
      April 10 2025 11: 03
      Around the time the Author wrote this article. Yes
  36. +5
    April 9 2025 18: 18
    So I understood that there won't be a SU-57 or what should I understand? ? If earlier there were bravura articles that soon it will be finished and there will be many of them, we will tear everyone apart, now there is an article that it wasn't really wanted, and anyway why the hell do we need it?
  37. +3
    April 9 2025 20: 02
    I haven't read such nonsense for a long time.
  38. 0
    April 9 2025 20: 23
    Quite controversial statements... There is some kind of stretch of the owl on the globe. I am talking about the 5th generation...
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. +4
    April 9 2025 22: 24
    What a big sheet of nonsense
  41. +4
    April 9 2025 22: 49
    There is no point in reading after the first two paragraphs, another specialist in fancy tongue waving
  42. +3
    April 9 2025 23: 27
    What nonsense... How many times has the situation with the Serbian S-125 been analyzed, it has long been known that the American air traffic controllers screwed up; they allowed the planes to fly the same air corridors over and over again. When the Serbs noticed this, they secretly moved the S-125 SAM system right into such a corridor. Dale Zelko's "invisible" aircraft, flying on a mission, jumped right onto the radar - i.e. approached it at such a distance that the radar could already isolate its signature from the background noise. Zoltan Dani (the SAM commander) recalled that even in such an ideal situation, his tracking radar could not find the target several times (the echo was too weak) and only when the F-117 was practically next to the radar, he finally managed to track it.

    Understand, the main thing that stealth technology does is reduce the power of the signal returned to the radar. This power also (inverse square law) decreases with distance. That is, the main thing that "stealth" does is reduce the distance from which the radar can distinguish a target from the general background (which can be artificially worsened - for example, by placing noise interference in a wide range). This allows stealths to bypass air defenses by simply slipping into the gaps between radars.
  43. +3
    April 10 2025 00: 10
    Yes, on topware it's high time to move the author at least to the beginning of the article, and even better to the main page, so that you can immediately see who wrote it and not open such "material" again.
  44. 0
    April 10 2025 04: 09
    The author would like us to have only Il-2 and LaGG-5 (not even La-5FN)
  45. 0
    April 10 2025 10: 24
    Our bows are in no way inferior to those of the English and Americans. Our junks are even better in size and speed than English battleships. Take any English archer and compare him with our Manchu batyr. The English swords are much lighter than our dadao sabres.
    We will surely drive the barbarians into the Eastern Sea!
    (Inspirational speech by a Manchu military leader before the first Opium War).
    An airplane with a person inside is not a blind, but certainly a side branch of evolution.
    The main branch is now moving towards unmanned systems.
    And all those boring things like microelectronics manufacturing, noise immunity, autonomous flight using artificial intelligence, drone swarms, and so on...
    It's boring, doesn't look as heroic as a battle with clubs, and comes down to the state's ability to implement long-term projects without embezzlement and window dressing.
    And this comes down to the competence of the personnel, the appointment of responsible persons based on the principle of professionalism, the education of elites focused on life in their own country...
  46. 0
    April 10 2025 14: 26
    Armament inside the fuselage? This "innovation" is almost a hundred years old, because by the mid-30s bombers were already carrying their cargo in bomb bays, not under their wings.

    But it is not exactly.
    But until the middle of the war, the Pe2 could only drop underwing bombs from a dive. And other front-line bombers were carried under the wings.
    Here's about Tu2.
    Bombing armament: normal combat load is 1 ton, overload up to 2 tons, full capacity of bomb racks maximum up to three tons. Bombs are placed inside the fuselage bomb bay (internal suspension) and on the locks of external bomb racks (external suspension).
  47. 0
    April 10 2025 15: 29
    When you read another opus by Roman Skomorokhov, which "buries" another class of weapons, you want to paraphrase Bulgakov: "Don't read Roman Skomorokhov in the morning." Because his articles are written with the clear intention of writing something. Sometimes even the question arises: "Wasn't it a neural network that issued this opus?" And Roman himself prefers not to respond to barbs and criticism addressed to him. The deed is done, the forum is seething, we are preparing another injection.
    Nevertheless, I would like to put in my two cents. You can’t stop technical progress. And air combat, manned aviation itself, and many other things have been cancelled more than once. New classes of weapons and equipment appeared, occupied their niche... And what was “cancelled” did not go away. The fifth generation is obviously, on the one hand, another marketing ploy so that the US military-industrial complex could earn more money. On the other hand, during the Cold War, when this “generation” appeared, there was a need for a breakthrough in strong air defense, and for higher flight characteristics, and new weapons, etc. The size and cost of aircraft also grow over time. Compare, for example, the Nieuport of World War I and the same F-22. Well, or, for example, the P-47 Thunderbolt with the F-22.
    Rather, the question arises here: why did such a well-conceived and well-made aircraft turn out to be not as successful and in demand as, for example, the F-15 or the entire Su-27 family? Maybe it’s because the Cold War ended? And if it had continued, would the F-22 still be being cut? By the way, the ever-memorable F-35 was conceived precisely as a cheap replacement for Cold War-era aircraft.
    Regarding “air divisions armed with Su-57 and 75” – it’s just funny... And where is this “horse”?
    1. 0
      April 10 2025 15: 30
      Let's start with stealth. Note that we have not yet had aircraft where everything is sacrificed for stealth, such as the F-117. However, stealth is one of the components that reduces the vulnerability of an aircraft. We have always worked on reducing vulnerability. We used armor and increased survivability of units. Stealth is a reduction in the level of all possible physical fields of an aircraft. Obviously, "invisibility" is impossible. But reducing visibility not only for radars, but also for missile homing heads is a very important task. But this is not the only way. Electronic warfare is developing. We are waiting for the emergence of active protection, in the form of EMP and kinetic means of destruction of missiles and other ammunition.
      Internal weapons suspension not only reduces "visibility". It improves aerodynamics, and therefore the flight characteristics of the aircraft. But in frontline conditions, they always tried to load it as much as possible. And there were not enough bomb bays. For the same reason, external suspensions remained on modern stealth aircraft.
      Avionics is currently developing primarily towards integration with other combat systems. Currently, these are “unmanned partners” and other drones.
      Now beloved authorom "supercruise". Designers have always strived to make aircraft fly higher and faster. Another question is that at some point they ran into physiological and technical limitations. Why do we need long supersonic speeds? Let me remind you that it was the high-speed MiG-31s ​​that once drove away the Blackbirds that flew like they were at home. The MiG-31 fleet is rapidly aging, and there is no replacement for it. The MiG-41 rather provides food for designers and dreamers. And the only possible replacement for it is the Su-57 with cruising supersonic speed. And why do we need this supersonic speed at all? Let's remember the Kinzhal missiles. Satellites and missiles that shoot them down can be launched in the same way. High-speed aerial reconnaissance has not lost its relevance. By the way, the "potential enemy" has not yet developed an interceptor similar to the MiG-31.
      1. -1
        April 10 2025 15: 31
        About maneuverable air combat. In the era of Starfighters and Phantoms, it was already cancelled. And they encountered ... old cannon MiG-17s. Good maneuverability is an extremely useful property for any combat aircraft. And the experience of the Air Defense Forces is not at all indicative. Single interceptions at extreme ranges do not say anything. What if air armadas enter the war, like in Vietnam? And in conditions of strong air defense, a strike aircraft with good maneuverability has a better chance of surviving than an "iron". For example, the notorious F-16s can strike ground targets and return home, only under the condition of intensive maneuvering. True, this requires highly qualified pilots ... By the way, about "super-maneuverable missiles". No one has cancelled the evasive maneuver with simultaneous jamming of the missile's homing head.
        And maneuvering battles were never conducted at supersonic speeds. According to data from the 60s, the speed range for air combat was 0,8-1,2 Mach. Even the F-16 was not accelerated above 1,6 Mach - this greatly increased its cost. But even the MiG-23 and Tu-160 got away from the same F-16s due to their superiority in speed.
        In general, even today you will be tormented by searching for the frequency range in which the SNR-125, the S-125 air defense missile guidance station, operates.
        This attack by the author is funny and incomprehensible. What kind of secrets could there be in the radars of the complexes that the USSR supplied to many countries? No RTR aircraft are needed here. The Americans have long studied these complexes down to the last screw. I believe that back in the days of the Cold War.
        1. 0
          April 10 2025 15: 31
          trivial missiles like the same "Sidewinder", which is 70 years old as a product this year
          author Have you ever wondered why these same "rattlers" are still on the conveyor belt? And has it ever occurred to you that the letters in the AIM-109A – AIM-109X modifications mean something? For example, that the missiles, which initially only hit from behind, can now fly in from any direction? How did their range increase from 5 to 35 km? How did the missiles stop reacting to heat traps? And so on.
          AFAR – well, it’s almost mandatory on all the most modern fighters.
          Now about our hero – Su-57. I have already written that technical progress cannot be cancelled. And the existing aircraft gradually reach the end of their service life and age. Why not produce more modern machines instead? With all the advantages of the Su-30 and Su-35, the Su-57 is still more advanced in all respects. It has new radars, and not only in the nose and tail fin, but also in the wings. The aircraft is equipped with new electronic warfare systems. It integrates with other types of weapons. Work is underway to pair it with drones. It has much better aerodynamics and higher aerodynamic quality. In the end, it can replace not only the Su-57s, but also the simpler MiGs. Let's hope that the Su-27 will be brought to mind. And it has every chance of becoming the new workhorse of our aviation, replacing the Su-XNUMX family. Perhaps, it itself will become the progenitor of a new family of frontline aviation. If only all the work could be “finished”...
          1. 0
            April 10 2025 15: 41
            What else... Why did the author mention aerodynamically unstable aircraft? And it's strange why he didn't mention the I-16? After all, it was just that. And all modern fighters fly only with an artificial stability system. And it wasn't on the F-22, and not even on the Su-27, but on the F-16. And, apparently, the author doesn't know that it's not just about "somersaults", but about the higher aerodynamic quality of the aircraft. This also became one of the reasons for using the "unstable scheme".
            The canopy is no revelation either. The F-16 uses the same canopies as the F-22. With the same golden hue.
            Universality is generally a property of combat aviation. And during the Second World War, fighters attacked ground targets. Even highly specialized aircraft gradually expanded their capabilities. And fighters have always tried to be used for as wide a range of tasks as possible. Up to refueling in the air. And wasn't Roman himself recently in favor of multi-purpose aircraft?
            So, paraphrasing Roman himself, the question inevitably arises: why did he write so many letters once again?
  48. 0
    April 10 2025 20: 46
    5th generation aircraft are not a dead end in the development of aviation. It's just that someone created this aircraft 35 years ago, and someone else sat and clicked their beak.
    But now, based on the developments of the 5th generation (for those who have it and it is fully functional), it is possible to build the 6th. And after it there will be the 7th, etc. Aircraft are built for 25-30 years. Even if, due to the lack of replacement, their service life was extended to 40-50 years (B52 and KC135 - we are not taking into account, this is an exception), they still cannot fly forever. Otherwise, the Air Force would fly MiG15 or MiG21
  49. -1
    April 10 2025 20: 55
    Budget embezzlement plane? Perfect for financial economics, pointless for military action.
  50. Lad
    0
    April 12 2025 06: 37
    With the "dead-end" aircraft of the next generations, everything is clear from the article. It is very easy to drive them into a dead-end while sitting on the couch with a beer in one hand and typing on the keyboard with the other hand. It is not entirely clear what the author smoked before driving these very aircraft into a dead-end, but this is a question that has nothing to do with aircraft.
  51. KCA
    0
    April 12 2025 10: 11
    What kind of SDI was manufactured in the USSR that could have consumed a lot of money? Personally, I have not heard of anything except the model of the Skif laser installation, cruise missiles were probably carried out, but what was made and tested in the hardware?
  52. 0
    April 13 2025 15: 03
    It's no wonder that Su-57 regiments don't roam the skies.


    Maybe it would not be in vain if the VKS had 10-12 air regiments with Su-35...
    It seems like we have everything, but it is produced in microdoses, so soon Algeria will overtake us in the number of modern Su aircraft.....
  53. 0
    April 15 2025 13: 43
    Say "bad"!
    "They look very provocative!"
    "So, these are good boots. I have to take them." - from the film "Office Romance" (1977)

    Experts, we will decide for ourselves how, when and where to strike at your pride:)
    And the moderators may not publish my comment, because they know that I am right;)
    Adios!
  54. 0
    April 16 2025 13: 26
    What is the main purpose of aviation in war? There are two: reconnaissance; destruction of enemy ground forces at long (artillery is more effective at short) distances.
    Air superiority (fighters) is a derivative (secondary) objective to ensure the previous ones.
    Another thesis is that combines are always worse than specialized ones in terms of performing a function.
    Conclusion, for the effective use of aviation, a "barge" for bombs is needed, and again a "barge" for electronic warfare systems. The best "barge" in terms of cost per ton-kilometer is the Boeing B-52 Stratofortress, there is still no better (the B-1B "Lancer" and Tu-160 are worse in terms of economy). And so because the military lost their targets and shores, and this thesis (the wrong direction of development) proves their use (very limited, not comparable with the Great Patriotic War) in the Central Military District, because there was air defense and the Great Patriotic War - look at the composition of the fronts in August 1945.
  55. 0
    April 17 2025 12: 41
    There is a big difference between the planes. Some are shot down, while others are shot down. Victory is achieved primarily not by super-maneuverability, but by the range of the missiles and interaction with the AWACS and other radars. Your own radar is good, but it is like a lantern in the night! Therefore, for the defense of the European part of the country, a 7th generation fighter is an unmanned cornfield with a missile and airfields every fifty kilometers in two or three lines.
    .
    Attack frontline aircraft. This is a blind, deaf, supersonic flying bomb and missile carrier like a log at an altitude of 30-100 meters. And also an unmanned spotter and communications node for the log below, tumbling in the stratosphere.
    .
    Strategic missile carriers. After the lifting of the SALT restrictions, it is more advantageous for us to have as a strategist a variation of the MIG-31 with one missile with in-flight refueling first from a tanker, and then from a tanker based on the same MIG-31. The tanker can also be a control aircraft, and the main carrier a drone. And here, too, it is necessary to make a vertical takeoff, which will significantly improve the characteristics, and will also allow strategists to be placed anywhere.
    .
    There were and are many ideas, including a three-engine design that simplifies the engine and makes the shock absorber unnecessary....
    .
    Where is supersonic needed? Where there are no airfields, and the missile must be delivered to the launch point in a limited time. That is, the north of the country, where a pair of MIG-31s ​​cover two thousand kilometers of coastline.
    .there, and there, vertical takeoff and landing aircraft are needed, which today will weigh less and fly faster than modern aircraft. And carry more cargo.