Russian high-tech pointed to the place

189
The Russian developer and manufacturer of supercomputers, the T-Platforms company, which carried out successful expansion in the global market, was placed on the American blacklist. Now her business is under threat.

Russian high-tech pointed to the place

General Director of T-Platform Vsevolod Opanasenko and Lomonosov supercomputer


The Bureau of Industry and Security (BPB), subordinated to the US Department of Commerce, 8 March announced the inclusion of the Russian company T-Platforms and its two branches in Germany and Taiwan in the “List of organizations and individuals acting contrary to US national security and foreign policy interests” .

Last October, the list already included companies from different countries of the world involved in illegal, as Americans believe, deliveries of electronic components from the USA to Russia. The difference is that those punished last year were distributors of electronic components, and T-Platforms is Russia's largest manufacturer of supercomputers, whose activities are of strategic importance to the country. Of the serious Russian organizations, the VNII of technical physics from Snezhinsk and the VNII of experimental physics from Sarov, that is, world-famous Russian nuclear centers, are included in this list.

The BIS decision states: “The Bureau has reason to believe that T-Platforms exported dual-use goods without the necessary license and that the company's activities are related to the development of computer systems for military purposes and the production of computers for nuclear research.”

Inclusion in the black list means that the company is set a “presumption of prohibition” on obtaining licenses for export, re-export and transfer of any goods and products manufactured in the United States or by American technology in other countries of the world.

The imposed restrictions close the possibilities not only for the purchase of electronic components in the States, but also for ordering chips, independently developed by T-Platforms, at any factory in the world, since all the factories use American technology. “Roughly speaking, we cannot buy sunflower oil if the field on which the sunflower grows is pollinated by American pesticides,” said Vsevolod Opanasenko, general director and co-owner of the company. For T-Platforms, this means an actual “ban on the profession”: without a corresponding element base, the production of which is under full American control, the creation of supercomputers is impossible. Moreover, the “ban on the profession” applies not only to the enterprise itself, but also to its leading managers, since it is valid for any companies of a similar profile created with their participation.

Supercomputers and T-Platforms

Supercomputers are called computers with huge processing power, which is measured in the number of floating point operations per second (FLOPS, flops). Such machines are used to predict weather and climate conditions, to simulate nuclear tests, to test various equipment - aviationautomobile; to simulate the life cycle of nuclear fuel cells. They are used in the design of nuclear and thermonuclear reactors, for the analysis of geological exploration data in the search and evaluation of oil and gas fields, and for DNA decryption. In other words, supercomputers are needed where numerical modeling is needed to solve problems, or where a huge amount of complex calculations is required, processing a large amount of data in real time.

Vladimir Betelin, Director of the Institute of System Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences, still in 2009, in an interview (see “No supercomputer - leave the market” in “Expert” No. 37 for 2009 a year), expressed confidence that in the near future the main aircraft one of the conditions of delivery will make the presentation of the results of the simulation of the liner. And all those who do not have such a model will be extruded from the aircraft market. The same is true for the market of nuclear reactors and other markets for technically complex products. Thus, the problem of supercomputers is becoming a central issue in maintaining the country's competitiveness in high-tech product markets.

The state of affairs with supercomputers in different countries can be judged by the world rating of supercomputers Top-500. As of November, 2012 from 500 251 devices were from the USA, 72 from China, 32 from Japan, 19 from Germany and eight from Russia (four of them are of Russian design). And such a result for our country is not bad at all, if we consider that the development of supercomputers actually stopped in our 1990-s.

In Russia, a number of companies are engaged in the creation of supercomputers, including T-Platforms and the program of the Union State SKIF (in which T-Platforms also participate). Due to their activities, the share of foreign enterprises in the supercomputer market of Russia has decreased from more than 90% to less than 25%. Most of the T-Platforms public projects are implemented in universities, where they not only carry out scientific research on their machines, but also solve applied tasks for enterprises, and also train specialists to work on supercomputers. T-Platform supercomputers operate in Tomsk, Belgorod and South Ural universities. And the biggest achievement of T-Platform was the Lomonosov supercomputer, installed at Moscow State University and occupying 2012 in November 26 in the world Top-500.

From deliveries to industrial companies, we note projects with Sukhoi Design Bureau, Rusal and the St. Petersburg Central Research Institute for them. Academician A. N. Krylov. T-Platforms sell their systems not only in our country, but also abroad. The company's success attracted the attention of foreign partners, which allowed it to sell several systems to Europe and Singapore. And at the end of 2012, T-Platforms won a tender for the supply of a supercomputer to New York State University. And she won such competitors as Dell and HP. All in all, the company has supplied about 300 systems of various capacities and now occupies up to 50% of the Russian market and up to 1% of the global supercomputer market in money. The company has hundreds of patents in the field of supercomputing.

Why could this happen

The T-Platforms company, as stated in the Bureau of Industry and Security's decision, is related to organizations operating contrary to US national security and US foreign policy interests, and is associated with the development of computer systems for military purposes and the production of computers for nuclear research. In general, there are many such companies in Russia, but with the exception of two of which we spoke, no one else has been blacklisted. “We did not cooperate with Iran, they didn’t deliver anything to Bin Laden. Why we came under such punitive measures, we do not understand. Nobody informed us about the inclusion in the list. Therefore, the company immediately filed an application with the bureau asking for reasons for the decision. But so far there has been no answer, ”says Opanasenko. The appeal to the representative of this bureau in Russia - the attache of the American embassy for export control - also did not clarify anything. And the revision of the decision is essentially difficult: if to add a structure to the list of legal and physical persons of concern to any American department, a simple majority of votes of the commission members making the relevant decision is required, then in order to remove a company from the list or change an existing record , the result of the vote must be unanimous.

Naturally, I want to understand how, after all, the company was blacklisted. The issue in this case is with subtext, because T-Platforms is a leading player in the Russian supercomputer market, and since the Russian industry cannot do without supercomputers, it turns out that the market immediately goes to the Americans.

Whether it’s American counterparts who managed to somehow influence the decision of their government agencies, or the decision is dictated by the desire of the American government agencies themselves to strangle the fast-growing innovative Russian company in the sphere that they want to keep under their control, or both, taken together. Or maybe, finally, this is a puncture of the company itself, which somewhere violated the American export rules, which they rushed to use, imposing the toughest possible sanctions on an active and successful Russian company.

As Ivan Pokrovsky, Director General of the Information and Analytical Center of Modern Electronics, explains, the American regulatory authorities act very formally, and T-Platforms, as an end-user of electronic components, could get under the distribution not because of its own errors, but, for example, - because I used the services of some other company that was blacklisted. And for reasons not related to the activities of T-Platforms. As an example, Pokrovsky cites the situation with the companies ARC Electronics and Apex System. Both firms are accused of violating export controls, and their leaders are tried in the US; So, Americans have all their consumers included in the black list.

Apparently, overseas drew attention to T-Platforms long before March 2013. In 2010, T-Platforms opened a representative office in Hanover. The company managed to find promising customers. According to Opanasenko, this happened “largely due to the shortage of own manufacturers of supercomputers in Europe, interest in innovative and original developments of the company, as well as its readiness, unlike American corporations, to carry out“ custom ”hardware and software together with European users.


Supercomputer "Lomonosov"


The first bell, which warned about the problems that may arise in a supercomputer company in cooperation with the West, was heard during Dmitry Medvedev's visit to Germany in 2011 year. Then, at a meeting with Angela Merkel, it was supposed to discuss cooperation between Germany and Russia in the field of supercomputers, in which, of course, T-Platforms was interested, but as far as it became known, Merkel refused to discuss this particular point at the last moment.

The second bell sounded in 2012 year. The company has worked closely for many years with the Juelich Research Center in Germany, one of the leading European research centers with and one of the largest supercomputers in the world. Several years ago it was decided to formalize the cooperation between them, concluding a communique. But it turned out to be difficult. One of the experts close to the company said that, having learned of this intention, the German Ministry of Science intervened in the matter and tried to ban the signing of the communique. And, as far as we know, the order came from German Chancellor Merkel after the call of US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, stressing that cooperation with Russia in such a sensitive area is undesirable. In the end, the Juliha Center insisted on the conclusion of both the communique and the contract for the supply of a supercomputer to the Center. According to the company, according to the signed cooperation agreement, in the 2013 year, T-Platforms should center on a prototype of a supercomputer up to 100 teraflops air-cooled and develop a number of promising software technologies. The system has already been assembled in the European office of T-Platforms. The continuation of the project - the installation of a water-cooled multi-petaflops system is scheduled for 2014 year.

Despite the problems, the company continued to pursue an active policy in Europe. In 2012, the offer of T-Platforms and the Finnish supercomputer center CSC to build a prototype of a promising supercomputer for the pan-European program “Partnership for Advanced Computing in Europe, PRACE) received the highest score in evaluating PRACE projects. The first stage of the prototype in CSC was installed and adopted in November 2012 of the year. In 2013, a hot water-cooled system with a capacity of about 300 teraflops should be installed. Among other European projects, the company notes cooperation with the second largest German computing center in Leibnitz (Leibnitz Rechenzentrum) in research in the field of energy efficient supercomputer architectures based on the prototype of a water-cooled system supplied by T-Platforms. But now all these projects are questionable. True, hope still remains - the Russian Foreign Ministry and influential people with good connections in American political circles have joined the problem solving.

New COCOM

Regardless of the reasons that led to the inclusion of T-Platforms in the American blacklist, it is clear that maintaining such dependence on our industry and defense from the goodwill of the Americans and their allies makes our technological sovereignty highly conditional. Moreover, this dependence exists in almost all sectors of the innovation industry - from machine tools to microelectronic chips.

The president of the ELVIS group of companies, Yaroslav Petrichkovich, notes that behind the incident lies a systemic problem: “In the modern high-tech world, the Americans, using their technological advances, laid a huge number of threshold limiters, thanks to which at any moment any unnecessary US development can be blocked. Because the States hold under their control most of the technology of microelectronics and decide who to them - and to what extent - allow. And at least in the coming decades, the world will have to live with these global restraints. ”

The Soviet Union, although it was lagging behind the United States in the field of microelectronics, owned almost the entire spectrum of the necessary technologies, and most importantly, had electronic engineering, which made it possible to manufacture all the necessary equipment. Now, alas, everything has changed: over the past 20 years, most of the technologies have been lost, industry research institutes eke out a miserable existence or shut down, and electronic engineering is almost completely lost.

In the state program of the Russian Federation “Development of the electronic and radio-electronic industry for 2013 – 2015 years” it is planned to achieve the level of chip production technology in 45 nm with the subsequent transition to 2025 nm technology in 10. Unfortunately, the program does not indicate ways to achieve these goals. In principle, there may be two such ways: the acquisition of appropriate equipment or the development of your own. The first path is again coupled with American control. So, the Russian company "Micron" coordinated the purchase of the factory for the production of 90 nm chips with the corresponding American structures. Already, the production of microcircuits using 28 nm technology is owned by only six companies, and on 22 nm - four companies. And experts predict further monopolization of chip production. Under these conditions, it is naive to at least be willing to share technologies with others. In addition, the cost of the factory for the production of 10 nm chips reaches several tens of billions of dollars.

The second way, given the state of our industry, is no easier. In the article “Fold up nanopiaceans” (see “Expert” No. 4 for 2012 a year), we cited the opinion of the head of the Micron group of companies, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences Gennady Krasnikov about ways to solve the problem of electronic engineering: “There are two options for industrial policy field of electronic engineering. If there is money, if there is a scientific development and confidence that our development is the best and will be able to win a substantial part of the market, then we need to develop our own industry. And if you do not have the necessary strength and money, then the second option is possible - joining an international alliance, as all companies in the world now work. Although, if we want to take part in the alliance on an equal footing, we still need development and money. Because if you invest your money and resources there, then you have the same rights as others. And if you do work on other people's money, then you give not only the results of your work, but also intellectual property. ” Several years ago, Gennady Krasnikov, Director of the Physics and Technology Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Orlikovsky and Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Nikolay Salashchenko appealed to the government with a proposal to create an electronic engineering development program in Russia, but did not receive support.

It is appropriate to recall here that the rules for the sale of dual-use items (and modern microelectronics almost completely complies with this definition) are subject to the so-called Wassenaar agreements on the export control of conventional weapons and high technologies (“dual-use goods and technologies”), to which Russia, and according to them, each state itself determines that of such goods and technologies it is ready to sell and to whom. In fact, this is a new form of the notorious COCO. And here the Americans are untied.

Another thing is that such a practice of “banning the profession” actually buries the frivolous dreams of some of our politicians and public figures about the free exchange of goods and technologies, about fair competition between Russia and Western countries, and even more so that Russia will be helped to modernize its economy. It may help, but up to a certain limit, and the production of supercomputers is clearly beyond it.

The list of goods and services subject to the export control rules. All goods and services whose country of origin is the United States, regardless of their location. Components, materials, software or other goods whose country of origin is the United States, collected abroad in a product of foreign manufacture , in which the established maximum of American-made components is exceeded. Certain foreign-made products directly derived from the use of an American technologist th or software obespecheniya.Opredelennye goods produced in any enterprise or by the main etogopredpriyatiya equipment located outside of the US, if a company or equipment established by the direct use of US technology or software.


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  1. +14
    April 2 2013 06: 06
    Nothing personal, just power.
    Looks like ours pinched the Immaculate Elves something painful, that's the fuss ...

    One of the commentators on vpk.name surprised me with the list of our developments ...
    CBOSS, ABBYY, Paragon Software Group, SPIRIT DSP, PROMT, Speech Technology Center, 1C, ASCON, DocsVision, Acronis, Kaspersky Lab, Parallels - the list goes on. These are recognizable products.
    1. +36
      April 2 2013 07: 14
      Quote: dmitreach
      Looks like ours pinched the Immaculate Elves for something painful, that's the fuss

      Salute, Dmitry hi
      Our long and strongly nipped something elves .... Their vanity. And since it is impossible to squeeze Russia out of other areas of activity (both military and political) rudely, as a strong man, we decided to go in such a cunning way.
      Quote: dmitreach
      One of the commentators on vpk.name surprised me with the list of our developments.

      It is difficult to deny, especially since most of the most modern developments that have led to a technological breakthrough have Russian roots. Zh. Alferov, during an interview on the scandal between the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Ministry of Education, quite authoritatively stated that most of the modern technological advances are Russian developments introduced over the hill.
      But here they are striped - they are late. For most high-tech developments to date, China is firmly competing with the United States and with a ban on the supply of components to us, Russia may well satisfy some segment through China. But this is not an option. With the appropriate approach of our guide, after some time (5-7 years), you can completely get your manufacturers of all components purely and not look into anyone's mouth. I really hope that this will happen - there is no other way.
      1. +21
        April 2 2013 10: 10
        Quote: esaul
        But this is not an option. With the appropriate approach of our guide, after some time (5-7 years) you can completely get your manufacturers of all components purely and not look into anyone’s mouth. I really hope that this will happen - there is no other way.

        - Esaul, honey on your lips, but the prose of life, here it is: "Several years ago, Gennady Krasnikov, director of the Physics and Technology Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Orlikovsky and corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Nikolai Salashchenko asked the government to create a program for the development of electronic engineering in Russia, but did not receive support.
        Here she is, the naked truth of life! You can, moreover, I will say - it’s not too late! BUT!!!!! Let's ask a question in Stalin. Stalin said that every mistake has a name and surname. In the above quote appealed to the government и but did not receive support there is a specific error, but there is no name and surname, there is an abstract "government". Some years ago? Was Putin the Prime Minister? Or was Putin then President of the Russian Federation? What caused such a decision? Someone justified the refusal to Orlikovsky and Salashchenko? I wonder what he justified? There is a specific executor, on whose competent opinion the prime minister or president relies. That is how this performer justified the rejection of the program for the development of electronic engineering? That Russia doesn't need it? That in Russia there is no money for this (and what then lies in the amerskie zagashniki?)?
        That in Russia there are so no competencies in the field of electronic engineering that it is almost impossible to create it from scratch?
        I would really like to read about the specific arguments of that artist. Usually, if academics apply, then should an expert not mind them BELOW, or is it not so in Russia? Or in Russia, some kind of dvorkovich is simply smarter than academicians?
        As for the States and the T-Platform, this cannot be let down. Russia answered hard for some Magnitsky, why can't it stand up for its only successful manufacturer of supercomputers? No leverage? Yes, as much as necessary! Starting from the blocking of the Afghan supply of the state army through the territory of Russia and ending with the interests of amers' companies in Russia itself - after all, they probably "violate the environment and do not comply with sanitary standards." Onishchenko, fas !!!!!
        1. rolik
          +1
          April 2 2013 14: 30
          Quote: aksakal
          In the above quote, they turned to the government and did not receive support

          So we need to turn again, but not to the government, but directly to the GDP. In the current government, you yourself know who is sitting at the head of the table, and half of the rest are like plush. They are now afraid once again to creak the chair. so as not to attract attention to yourself. And then, it’s not an hour, they will be thrown out of this chair.
          And then, recently, who makes all the significant decisions? That's it, the head of state. Therefore, it is necessary to convey to the person the whole depth of our depths, so that it would be like this - and not that way.
        2. 0
          April 2 2013 18: 17
          as far as I remember, "our" government was promoting Skolkovo, the current was stupidly drank the dough, and why would they need an acting competitor in the scale of 1/6 of the land
        3. 0
          April 2 2013 22: 19
          But recently Brzezhinsky was discussing, the old senile was saying: We will rise at the expense of Russia, on the wreck of Russia. But it is! The aviation industry, for example, the Amers created a flying log of 5 generations, spent a lot of money, well? For that, we destroyed our aviation industry, did it with triple benefits: Titanium is supplied without restrictions, our aircraft manufacturers work for them (on humiliating conditions), they sell their dreamliners to the whole world including us! We can even make new Tu-shki inside the country, I'm not talking about export.
          1. +1
            April 2 2013 22: 34
            abroad will help us)))
        4. 0
          April 24 2014 22: 14
          It seems that it's time to turn to the Guarantor personally. You should not allow such an attitude to our resurgent microelectronics.
      2. +11
        April 2 2013 10: 43
        Quote: esaul
        Our long and strongly nipped something elves .... Their vanity ...

        It is not a matter of pride (although this is also painfully developed among them). The point is different, in ideology, in the main principle with which they strive to realize their Great American Dream. Their last doctrine (as far as I know, they may have come up with a newer one) is to achieve global dominance with the help of weapons and technologies that are ahead of their closest opponents by a generation or two.
        The Anglo-Saxons always liked to shoot Papuans with machine guns (as in the Boer War, they are going to do this globally. And how to ensure such superiority? Two ways: to provide your own technological leap and hinder the development of technology from a competitor. This is what everybody else is doing) committees like Cocom. And if this is not enough, they try to buy up and take out promising scientists from the enemy. If for some reason it doesn’t work, then special services can be involved, for example, the killing of nuclear scientists in Iran.
        This is a continuation of the same war, only by other means.

        Electronics is considered to be a key American defense industry, without it there will be neither high-precision weapons, nor any ballistic computers there, SLA, communications - nothing. Without electronics, we will return to the weapons of the Second World War, and the war for America will turn into a walk: they will be able to shoot us like boys of sparrows from a slingshot.
        What goal did they set for themselves?

        And you about pride ... Everything is much deeper here!

        .... Zh. Alferov, during an interview on the scandal between the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Ministry of Education, quite authoritatively stated that most of the modern technological advances are Russian developments introduced over the hill. ...

        Yes, that is right. And not only modern ones. America has long been stealing ideas and scientists, and for some time technology, from us. It is time for Russia to spin this faucet, if we stop giving them our rocket and space technologies, they will forget about space in general. For example, without our technologies, there would not have been an ISS; the Yankees would have been building it for another 30 years.
        For some reason, we drowned our Mir and helped them build the ISS. And now - ask any child, and he will tell you that ISS - American station... "International" it is only because the Americans go there and others "let". (However, not everywhere. There are compartments where Russian cosmonauts are not allowed to enter). The question is, why do we need to support this station? Is it time to build your own?

        The United States gained a lead in computer technology at the expense of Russian emigrants. I came across an article in which it was said that in the early 70s of the last century America's need for mathematics was 70% satisfied at the expense of emigrants from Russia.
        During the Khrushchev thaw, many cybernetic scientists, seeing that there were few prospects in Russia for them, went abroad. The "clever" Khrushchev declared cybernetics a pseudoscience, as well as genetics - for his level of understanding nothing was more important than corn.
        And what do we see as a result? in the mid-70s, the explosion of computer technology in the United States. Personal computers have gone, programming languages, algorithms, applied calculations began to develop rapidly ... A computer is "solid-state mathematics", without mathematicians there are no computers.

        In general, Skolkovo is Skolkov, and it is time for Russia to really engage in science and education. First of all, it is necessary to make sure that a high-level scientist can normally support his family, do not need an apartment and live no worse than a "buy and sell" huckster with an unfinished average.

        Otherwise, technology and people will leave for the West and China, where there are not so many brains, where they are worth its weight in gold.
        1. +4
          April 2 2013 11: 27
          Quote: Skating rink
          First of all, it is necessary to make sure that a high-level scientist can normally support his family, do not need an apartment and live no worse than a "buy and sell" huckster with an unfinished average.
          - Japanese policeman, here in Almaty (any Almaty resident will confirm) there is a Baiseitova street, it is located so that it is in the city center, and a little away from noisy highways and roads. The apartments there are just super - even with a real fireplace in the apartment! Have you seen the film "Needle"? These are the apartments. Apartments on that street were given only to scientists who had already done something, deserved. Until now, they are asking for absurd (according to our Kazakhstani standards) money for these apartments on that street - from 300 thousand USD. for kopeck piece and above! Compare with the Khrushchevs (kitchen 6 sq. M.) For the proletarians, you will understand how they treated scientists in the USSR! What else did they, these scientists, need? To lick their heels, or what? What a fright
          Quote: Skating rink
          America's need for mathematics was 70% satisfied at the expense of emigrants from Russia.
          ??????? am What did these mathematicians lack? Ok, emotions.
          And what do they and how much do they need now, so that they would finally take up work, and not squabbles in their RAS?
          Quote: Skating rink
          First of all, it is necessary to make sure that a high-level scientist can normally support his family, do not need an apartment and live no worse than a "buy and sell" huckster with an unfinished average.
          - the average "buy-sell" goes to the same China or Turkey with a bag, buys in this bag an average of 20-25 thousand USD, After selling this in Russia for about two months, he has a gesheft of about 10 - 000 USD, that is, approximately from 15 to 000 per month. Isn't it easier to create such an economy in Russia, so that these "buy and sell" would not have such a gesheft? And then scientists compare themselves, loved ones, quite rightly, by the way, with these "buy and sell" and are outraged, and do not want to work. The import substitution program, for example, is to be launched at full height, then these buy and sell will begin to fall.
          But again, whatever you do, even when discussing the issue of incentives for scientists, we still run into the Central Bank of Russia. The high cost of loans - yesterday Asket noted - is the reason for poor production in Russia. A striking example is the government's stimulation of demand for child car seats by means of an appropriate law. In a Western state, where loans cost 2-3% per annum, such a step caused a rapid growth in the production of these products, for every taste and color, while the Russian industry has zero emotions, with such loans it is unprofitable! But buy and sell increased both their gesheft and the revenue of all these "Chikko" and "Baby Comfort".
          Skating rink, while such an economic policy in Russia and the CIS countries will continue, your proposal
          Quote: Skating rink
          lived as well as a "buy and sell" huckster with an unfinished middle.
          - UNREAL!!!!!!! The numbers you see. It’s unrealistic to pay the whole body of scientists no less than buy-sell! You’ll go around the world! Offer other stimulation measures.
        2. +3
          April 2 2013 12: 41
          I came across an article in which it was said that in the early 70s of the last century America's need for mathematics was 70% satisfied at the expense of emigrants from Russia.

          What are the immigrants at the Iron Curtain in the early 70's? Do you know the history of the issue?

          Regarding the article: we need to create our own element base and then there will be no dependence and irritation on the Americans
          1. +1
            April 2 2013 12: 48
            you need to create your own element base and then there will be no dependence and irritation on the Americans
            it is a question of mass character. + the presence of rare earth.
            + The biggest problem is who to sell to.
            1. -8
              April 2 2013 13: 48
              it is a question of mass character.

              Oh oh We already discussed that there are two big differences in making a single copy (like a Lefty shoe for a flea) and putting a product in a series.

              Further, the so-called back end: soldering, packaging, test. Russia does not have anything modern that is not planned at all.
              1. 0
                April 2 2013 17: 27
                there is right now too lazy to look for reviews from Habr.
                http://www.gsnanotech.ru/
          2. +7
            April 2 2013 12: 58
            To create an element base, you need to have UV photolithography plants, which cost hundreds of millions and are dual-use goods. Just because no one will sell them. The second - you can buy only obsolete installations, such as printing using the 90-nm process technology. And this is not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday.
            Alas, Russia has lagged behind in microelectronics for decades, and this lag is unlikely to be eliminated in the near future. In my city, the corps of the unfinished Microelectronics Center are rusting, where they were supposed to do research in this area and produce integrated circuits. Recently, teams of installers drove for disassembling metal. What element base are you talking about? request
            1. +2
              April 2 2013 13: 39
              While we are mastering 90-nm technology, the Americans are building an ultramodern plant. The construction of Fab42 in the US state of Arizona began in the middle of the 2011 year, and it will be commissioned in the 2013 year. According to Intel, it will become the most modern factory for the mass production of computer processors - Intel will produce products using 14-nanometer technology based on 300-mm silicon wafers. The plant will also be the first mass production compatible with 450-mm plates. More than $ 5 billion is planned to be invested in the construction site. At the time of launch, Fab 42 is expected to be one of the most advanced large-volume semiconductor manufacturing plants in the world.
            2. +1
              April 2 2013 17: 30
              microelectronics for decades
              ohhh another expert galloped
              Search google maskless lithography MAPPER Lithography learn a lot
              And also the fact that if you do not take the top brands of desktop desktops and prom electronics, they all sit on old technological processes and do not gurgle
              1. 0
                April 3 2013 19: 11
                My supervisor is from the Institute of Radio Engineering and Electronics. V.A. Kotelnikov of the Russian Academy of Sciences, who in May will turn 75 years old, can tell you a lot of interesting things, a respected admirer of new-fangled technologies. I will limit myself only to the fact that I note that at this very Institute for conducting academic research, ... 16-bit microcontrollers are ordered from Germany, Peltier elements of the necessary geometry are also from Germany. Semiconductor lasers - from Germany. The list can go on for a long time ...
                Tell students about maskless lithographs.
            3. ole
              ole
              0
              April 2 2013 22: 28
              [quote = Iraclius] A friend of mine traveled to Kiai in 2012 for a technical exhibition and was in cultural shock when he saw an industrial scanner for circuit boards, that is, a 1x1,5 table size and a scanning device, after 8 hours the conveyor output of scanned boards! !!!
          3. rolik
            0
            April 2 2013 16: 15
            [quote = professor] professor [/ quote
            Profesor !!! You decided to go on stage under your native flag ??? Deed worthy of respect)))
      3. +3
        April 2 2013 14: 30
        esaul, salute! hi About their pride - I agree.
        Their pride.

        a consequence of their hypocritical perception of the world, but for every hypocritical ass, there is a bolt with a thread. And amers know about it.

        In relation to breakthrough technologies, for me personally, the story with the NK-33 engine (For the N 1 rocket) became a textbook example.
        The moral is this; that amers are based on commerce, business. If not appropriate, then not funded. And the point. And with us: "we will turn the rivers to sleep" (I mean the scope and flight of thought). At least it was ... It's a pity the era is leaving, with the emergence of "effective managers, in the American way."

        There is a generation of Alferov and his students, and there is a generation of Livanovs "-" effective managers "... As long as amateurs carry out" political will ", we will not see new achievements.
        The contradictions between China and the United States of America Omerigi is just a way to catch its profit, here without the Will of the country's leadership no matter how. And there, in the manual - Chubas, Skolkovo, DAM and Livanov ... Not a happy picture ... request
        And how do we manage to step into the new century? Not otherwise than a "centuries-old" tradition - Contrary to.
      4. Reasonable, 2,3
        0
        April 4 2013 04: 36
        Self-love is not a matter. The states still think that they are a "superpower", and it is necessary to pay loans. Now we are being tested for strength in Syria. They now need World War 3, everyone will forget about the debt. A information guarantee of victory.
    2. Alexander
      +6
      April 2 2013 07: 31
      Save us Onishchenko.
      1. +8
        April 2 2013 10: 04
        Quote: Alexander
        Save us Onishchenko.


        Truly, still an effective alternative.
        An example to Western lovers, any shoving of their legs in front of the United States and others like them is useless. Gentlemen have never been and will never be interested in a successful Russia. They can share only those technologies. which allows us to more effectively plunder our natural resources in their favor. Only its own science and industry is the basis of the country's prosperity.
        1. +6
          April 2 2013 10: 26
          the production of which is under full American control, the creation of supercomputers is impossible.............. first Cyprus, now it is ..... then you have to live your own garden and in this plus this situation, thunder struck, only the blind does not see it .... as they say "if tomorrow is war?" ............. it's time to think about a response, curtail American exports of some goods, call a friend with the letter O wassat
          1. +6
            April 2 2013 12: 39
            Quote: strannik595
            ..... first Cyprus, now it .....

            That's right ...
            The guys work, they work out their hamburgers ...

            The question to Skolkovo and Nanotechnology needs to be forwarded: "Are we waiting a lot? Or do we need to" shake up "your slender ranks so that your overseas" friends "do not twist our arms?"
            feel
            1. +8
              April 2 2013 16: 54
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              The question to Skolkovo and Nanotechnology needs to be forwarded: "Are we waiting a lot? Or do we need to" shake up "your slender ranks so that your overseas" friends "do not twist our arms?"

              - unfortunately, without the Stalinist methods, alas, we won’t get out. Stalin would not do as you suggest this Skolkovo, ask different questions. They do not need to be set.
              It’s necessary how Stalin Korolev kept him a little in the camps, so that he would feel where he would have to live if he failed a responsible party task, and then he gave the task and warned, like, with a shield (we will fly first into space!) or on the shield (don't fly first into space!) ... I don’t want to apply such methods to scientists, but I don’t see any way out. Russia somehow neutralized the critical lag by buying these chips on the free market, according to SABZh, now this tap is also closed. ARRIVED. Got enough! Even as a child in Komsomolskaya Pravda I read about the first-born of the USSR in the field of electronics "Elbrus". There, surprisingly for a Soviet-era newspaper, they honestly wrote that "Elbrus is a little late compared to IBM, that all this needs billions of full-fledged foreign currency (what kind of animal is that? I still can't understand -)))) rubles, and there are difficulties with this, but "Elbrus" still appeared! " So, even then it was necessary to pull the veins and find these incomprehensible foreign exchange rubles, but not lag behind!
              Now it’s much harder. Now, even having dollars, even having $ 5 billion for one factory, you won’t buy this factory! You will not be SELLED! This factory will urgently have to be created by ourselves.
              And I do not think that the Skolkovo will be able to do something. It’s better to shoot them right away. Novosibirsk can, from Berdsk. Only they need to be stimulated normally, according to Stalinist!
              1. -3
                April 2 2013 17: 04
                [quote = aksakal] [quote = stalkerwalker]
                - unfortunately, without the Stalinist methods, alas, we won’t get out. Stalin would not do as you suggest this Skolkovo, ask different questions. They do not need to be set.
                It’s necessary how Stalin Korolev kept him a little in the camps, so that he would feel where he would have to live if he failed a responsible party task, and then he gave the task and warned, like, with a shield (we will fly first into space!) or on the shield (don't fly first into space!) . [/ quote]
                I smell an effective manager! I doubt that Stalin acted by such methods, otherwise no NTR in the union would have happened.
                Most likely, you need to treat the head.
                1. +3
                  April 2 2013 17: 21
                  Quote: Sergey_K
                  I smell an effective manager! I doubt that Stalin acted by such methods, otherwise no NTR in the union would have happened. Most likely, you need to heal the head.

                  - Similarly, I advise this to you.
                  Just to be sure, scientists have to be stimulated. Scientists are ambitious and ambitious people. But supertasks are not solved by lone individuals, even congenial ones; supertasks are solved by a team of such loners. Make such loners get lost in a team? Amerian scientist beautifully said about this "it's like making cats run together in a team!" I don’t know how this amersky scientist made his “cats” work in a team there and I don’t want to know, Russia still doesn’t have that kind of money, most likely, but I know how Stalin did it. In the course of how the heavy tank was created, I don't remember the name, but was it on display on the day of victory? A team of recognized tank builders-designers, who had previously haughtily protruded their lower lip at the mention of a competitor-designer, was assembled and put in one room furnished with drawing devices. There was one woman, a recognized designer. And the result was.
                  Stalin skillfully combined carrot and stick. Gingerbread - All-Union recognition, for the Soviet scientist it meant a lot, do not hesitate.
                  1. -2
                    April 2 2013 17: 27
                    People who do not understand obvious things always perplex me.
                    1. +1
                      April 2 2013 17: 34
                      Quote: Sergey_K
                      People who do not understand obvious things always perplex me.

                      - "I am always bewildered by people (here is a comma, did you learn Russian at school?)НХХ (see how to write here?) with things "- it's no wonder you are stumped, you drove yourself with your laziness as a child. Please do not comment on my posts, I am not going to argue with you, your level is understandable to me and humiliating to me.
                      1. +1
                        April 2 2013 17: 46
                        Oppa, the last spelling argument has gone. What is characteristic is that we ourselves are no different.

                        And about laziness, it drove cool))

                        You are there while bending your engineers. I’ll look at the result. Soon it should appear, this is a real way!
                2. 0
                  April 2 2013 17: 52
                  Stalin acted a little differently smile
                  "Notes on Economic Issues Related to the November 1951 Debate

                  I received all the documents on the economic discussion held in connection with the evaluation of the draft textbook of political economy. He received, inter alia, “Suggestions for improving the draft textbook of political economy”, “Suggestions for the elimination of errors and inaccuracies” in the draft, “Information on controversial issues”.

                  On all these materials, as well as on the draft textbook, I consider it necessary to make the following remarks. "
                  http://libbabr.com/?book=2176
                  1. 0
                    April 2 2013 18: 00
                    I read the first part. Quite not bad. Once again it confirms my thesis "I doubt that Stalin acted with such methods, otherwise no scientific and technological revolution would have happened in the union."
                    And about the head, too, is confirmed so far))
                    1. +4
                      April 2 2013 18: 43
                      I radically changed my attitude to Stalin, nurtured by perestroika and the "free" media. Around the same time as Wasserman, a Russian of Jewish origin.
                      For discharge (I apologize for offtopic):
                      ... In the negotiations there was a debate about the post-war borders, and Churchill said:
                      "But Lviv has never been a Russian city!"
                      "And Warsaw was," Stalin objected ...
                      Harriman at the Potsdam Conference asked Stalin:
                      "After the Germans were 1941 km from Moscow in 18, you are probably pleased to share defeated Berlin now?"
                      "Tsar Alexander reached Paris," Stalin replied.
                      1. +1
                        April 2 2013 18: 49
                        I somehow argued with a colleague at work about this; I told him about space, education, etc. He told me about the millions of victims of repression. In general, a dispute between two amateurs.

                        My only argument to which he could not answer is:

                        "Now, if we start to put things in order now. For real. Really, millions will not have to be planted again? We will have to!"

                        Then he could not find what to answer.
                      2. 0
                        April 2 2013 19: 06
                        Repression ...
                        There were a lot of such things:
                        "Why? The then Criminal Code was written in 1922, amended in 1926. At that time, it was still quite sincerely believed that all crimes are committed due to some external circumstances, which means that the circumstances must be changed so that a person ceases to be a criminal, and it is ridiculous to punish a person for what he did under pressure. Therefore, for example, the maximum term for rape was five years. What should an investigator do if he sees that there is some outright bastard sitting in front of him who will not return to normal in five years? He looks that a Komsomol member has been raped, and writes "an attempt on the life of an activist of a public organization" - and this is treason to the Motherland, and you can give up to ten years. "
                        Under the dressing of circumstances and VMN under a moratorium put.
                    2. 0
                      April 2 2013 18: 48
                      Quote: Sergey_K
                      I read the first part. Quite not bad. Once again it confirms my thesis "I doubt that Stalin acted with such methods, otherwise no scientific and technological revolution would have happened in the union."
                      And about the head, too, is confirmed so far))

                      Do you seriously consider tough personal responsibility for the assignment being carried out and about which I generally said "Stalin's methods", a bad method? I will count on the link, but it is unlikely that my statement about personal responsibility for the assigned case is overturned in the link.
                      And you see the result of personal irresponsibility as an example of the same humpbacked man who undertook to lead a huge state, to fail miserably with this matter and at the same time bear no responsibility for it. This example turned out to be contagious - and all the 90s and zero, and now we see the imitation of a humpback.
                      You still don't understand Russian well, and besides, you are speculating for me. I did not say "bend over", which implies unreasonable humiliation and bullying while the subordinate is trying to fulfill your own order. What would you know - Stalin did not act like that! You have conjectured this for me and for Stalin. He simply assigned what the subordinate was known to be able to cope with, assigned responsibility for this assignment and set a deadline for execution. In the very process of execution, especially in the form of bending over, Stalin did not interfere. I clearly explained the essence of the Stalinist methods? Do you understand anything?
                      1. +2
                        April 2 2013 19: 03
                        I don’t think so. Tough personal responsibility can be different. And the most difficult responsibility is the loss of reputation. For in the world of tops, reputation is something that accumulates over the years, and is lost in an instant. Losing reputation for the top is the loss of everything. It just seems from below that life is raspberry.

                        I think this is a bad method: "It is necessary, as Stalin kept Korolev a little in the camps, so that he would feel where he would have to live if he failed a responsible party assignment"

                        "And you see the result of personal irresponsibility in the example of the same hunchback who undertook to lead a huge state, to ruin this business miserably and at the same time not to bear any responsibility for it. This example turned out to be contagious - both in the 90s and XNUMXs, and even now we see the imitation of the humpback. "
                        - Absolutely agree. Moreover, we are now seeing an interesting picture. Was the Minister of Defense - became the head of the administration. Was the Minister of Economy - became the head of the Central Bank. You can see how the government becomes a separate layer, the government is separate - the people are separate. Whoever was a "slave" is a slave and will die, who was born of blue blood - will never fall out of this layer. This is a very dangerous and harmful tendency!

                        "And you see the result of personal irresponsibility in the example of the same hunchback who undertook to lead a huge state, to ruin this business miserably and at the same time not to bear any responsibility for it. This example turned out to be contagious - both in the 90s and XNUMXs, and even now we see the imitation of the humpback. "
                        - Uh, nah. Stoyamba. Your remark says directly - first they planted, then they gave the task. I didn’t do it - they put me again. Stalin is a very serious figure, his authority is indisputable. But do not ascribe to him superhuman abilities. There are tasks where only the Lord God knows how it all comes out.
                      2. 0
                        April 2 2013 19: 24
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        Your remark says directly - first they planted, then they gave the task.
                        - About the fate of the Queen in the know? Are you aware that he was sitting in Kolyma? And he barely got out of there. Oh yes, Stalin was not in the know.

                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        I didn’t do it - they put me again.
                        - Then the Queen did not sit down - Stalin died. And they would not have been imprisoned, for Korolev brilliantly managed and deserved his worthy place among the greatest people of Russia
                        .
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        And the most difficult responsibility is the loss of reputation. For in the world of tops, reputation is something that accumulates over the years, and is lost in an instant. Losing reputation for the top is the loss of everything. It just seems from below that life is raspberry.
                        - are you talking about a society with highly developed social and state institutions? Where I mentioned that that American scientist still managed to "harness the cats" in one team? Thank you, I guess what tools that American got out of the situation with. Do you see such a development of public and state institutions in today's Russia? Serdyukov has such a reputation - so what? Where he became a leader, the team reared up? We won't work with a brow with such a reputation, and that's it! And do you think that such a level of development of the institutions of society could have been characteristic of the post-war USSR, when the country was still in ruins?
                        I see that you have softened the rhetoric and become more informed, I’m taking a step back. Answer - and if your public and state institutions are not so developed that your reputation is not yet decisive, but you really need to decide, with the help of scientists, what important TOP task, on which the very existence of society depends, what will you do? It is urgent to create a reputation institution so that people learn to protect their reputation?
                      3. +3
                        April 2 2013 19: 40
                        What does the fate of the Queen? You said you need to act like Stalin and te pe. Well, how much can you quote?

                        The country is still in ruins. I do not see only one super-task for Russia is the eradication of corruption. And I see that it is impossible. That's all, there are no more tasks. Because when corruption does not occur, it turns out that citizens will do everything themselves, without sticks and gingerbread, and progressive development will begin. An example is China, which has ALREADY overtaken us.
                      4. +2
                        April 2 2013 19: 50
                        Corruption cannot be defeated. Even in China, where they shoot for it, those who wish are not being transferred.
                        Corruption was, is and will be. The task of the state and society is to create a situation where it will be possible to steal (corrupt) a narrow circle of limited persons (as in "developed democracies"). But it will be possible to get there through a tough social elevator. The model of this elevator was successfully tested by Stalin. And now it turns out that a stratum of the highest is developing and the "right to corruption" will be inherited, and not for merit.
                      5. +2
                        April 2 2013 19: 56
                        I absolutely agree.
                      6. 0
                        April 2 2013 20: 48
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        Corruption was, is and will be
                        - there is such a thing.
                        The point is the scale.

                        Quote: ImPerts
                        And now it turns out that a stratum of the highest is developing and the "right to corruption" will be inherited, and not for merit.
                        - I do not agree. In America, everything is also perfectly inherited. Example? Clan Kennedy refers to
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        narrow circle of people
                        ? Absolutely. One of Kennedy turned out to be a geek - he raped a maid (well, what's the difference? Both corruption and rape are criminal offenses, so that’s not the point ...). Could the representative of ELITE bear the same responsibility as an ordinary resident? Of course not! That geek Kennedy never sat down for it. But the phenomenon of the so-called reputation comes into play - Sergey _K just mentioned, and I fully disclosed that there is a concept of reputation - and as a result that geek perishes during skiing in the Alps, flying without a helmet on a tree, which simply do not exist in those mountains. Again, for the sake of the reputation of one of Kennedy, who was too fond of flirting with young people, she underwent brain surgery, and she remained disabled. So answer - Kennedy is a dynasty or not? If the dynasty, then perfectly everything is inherited there. All people are the same in essence.
                      7. 0
                        April 2 2013 21: 55
                        Quote: aksakal
                        In America, everything is also perfectly inherited

                        I did not set America as an example. The extent of corruption in the United States is enormous. We guess this, but US journalists are silent about it. And scandals pop up only those that affected the interests of the ruling classes.
                        http://lenta.ru/news/2011/10/05/engineers/
                        http://www.rucor.ru/ssha-korruptsiya.html
                        Again, the concepts of reputation can be different. You can rape the maid, dishonor her as an applicant, the jury will not pay attention to her arguments and, damn it, you are a pure and blameless person, the court has decided so. in “Chicago” everything is beautifully shown.
                      8. 0
                        April 2 2013 22: 27
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        and, oops, you are a pure and blameless person, the court has decided so. in “Chicago” everything is beautifully shown.

                        - so this musical is nevertheless, in reality, a bit more prosaic, that Kennedy really lived and was really killed in the Alps, why invent fiction from musicals, even popular ones, to pass off as Amer’s reality. True, I do not embellish Amer’s reality, just when you said about developed democracies, the first thing that comes to mind is America -))))
                      9. 0
                        April 2 2013 20: 13
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        An example is China, which has ALREADY overtaken us.
                        - corruption in China hoo hoo! There, in the squares they are shot, and nothing, they continue to steal. And they run the same way "over the hillocks", if they manage to dump.
                        Read about it.
                        The concept of reputation is a phenomenon that arises as a result of long development of a certain community, most often professional, in conditions of intense competition. First, they rely on reputation to make it easier for themselves to choose the right professional, then it develops into a tradition, into the foundations of society. Am I making my point clear enough? Let me draw your attention to the word "long". In Russia, before the revolution, among merchants, this phenomenon was fully developed. Now answer - when the phenomenon of reputation can appear in Russia, if in Russia, if not confusion, then revolution, if not revolution, then war, and if not war, then perestroika? And each time with a radical breakdown of all foundations and traditions. You, excuse me, about some utopias. And I stand on the ground and offer quite earthly ways out of situations.
                        You talk about corruption as a super task. This is not a super task at all, it is again a utopia. This problem is solved in five seconds. Read the memoirs of Li Kuan Yu. He solved this problem at once. And if you want in a nutshell, if you please: "Do you want to defeat corruption? Get ready to put three of your best friends!" And without any democracy and political technologies, he defeated corruption. Where do you see the super task here? All that is needed is the usual, clearly expressed political will.
                      10. +1
                        April 2 2013 20: 25
                        All you need is the usual clearly expressed political will.
                        - this is the impossible impossible task. Power is boiled in its own juice ...
                      11. 0
                        April 2 2013 20: 56
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        this is an impossible task. Power is boiled in its own juice ..
                        - the usual skepticism a la "fucking upsepolymers!"
                        At this point in time, corruption, to my great regret, is one of the foundations of the state; so far, many important things for Russia are held up to it. If not for this circumstance, corruption would have long been abandoned and thrown into the trash, as Lee Kuan Yu did it. It so happened, and there is no fault of the Russian people in this. The Soviet regime collapsed unexpectedly, many things had to be urgently replaced somehow, so that they wouldn’t fly to tartarara at all, replaced by corruption schemes, especially since it was interesting to a very specific circle of people. And now try to immediately abandon this, which is also partly a supporting structure. But I am optimistic and affirm that all this will be overcome, however, not so fast. But I repeat - this is not a SUPERVISION in any way.
                      12. 0
                        April 2 2013 19: 41
                        Aksakal, Stalin did not keep Korolev in the camps in order to stimulate his brain activity and scientific potential. Korolev got for embezzlement 120.000 rub. I don’t know how much this is today. And he worked in sharashka - he served time. Everyone knew perfectly well that it would be more efficient to make him draw and think or think and draw, than to cut down the forest or make stools (this is of little use to Khodorkovsky, therefore he sews mittens).
                        If we talk about the need to negotiate and create conditions to expedite the process, we can recall the procedure for choosing the pope, it has been operating since the 1274 year.
                        About responsibility and so on. There is a good article by M. Leontyev on this subject.
                        “The problem of all Russian troubles is the problem of betrayal by the elite of their own country. The structure of the Russian statehood has developed in such a way that there is a Tsar, a People and an Elite. And the legitimacy of the Tsar and his power lies in the fact that he“ fights ”these Elites, addressing directly the People. Do the elites like it? Of course not! And as soon as the tsar's power weakens, the elites try to make a “political revolution.” That is, to ensure their safety first, and then impunity. "
                        http://www.milli-firka.org/content/31056853
                      13. +1
                        April 2 2013 20: 21
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        Aksakal, Stalin did not keep Korolev in the camps in order to stimulate his brain activity and scientific potential. Korolev got for embezzlement 120.000 rub. I don’t know how much this is today. And he worked in sharashka - he served time. Everyone knew perfectly well that it would be more efficient to make him draw and think or think and draw, than to cut down the forest or make stools (this is of little use to Khodorkovsky, therefore he sews mittens).
                        - Imperial, this is to show the Queen that they are not going to lisp with him. The task is set - do it, screw it up - sit. Korolyov knew these rules of the game. All scientists and business executives knew these rules of the game. These are the Stalinist methods that I have spoken and are still talking about. For some reason, everyone so understood that when I said "about Stalin's methods", everyone immediately thought "about the methods of gratuitous repression." I have liberoid stereotypes about Stalin, for some reason they are sitting with you, and you are trying to impress me on the basis and from the point of view of precisely these stereotypes implanted by liberoids. According to Leontyev's article, this journalist noted it well, but this is a drawback of Russian society, for sooner or later the sole power will always give up the slack, and the elite, like a starving gin, jumps out into the wild. It is necessary to create a slightly different format of interaction between the elite and society. Although, if you look at the current Russian elite from members of an incomprehensible ethnic group (somewhere on the previous branches they were all in white), then I do not mind that the tsar-father would properly scuffle such an elite that with a hot iron, camps and shootings, do not mind!
                      14. +1
                        April 2 2013 20: 56
                        I have long had undisguised hatred of liberal values.
                        Quote: aksakal
                        It is necessary to create a slightly different format of interaction between the elite and society.

                        I would be interested to know what this means?
                        For 20 years, the situation has developed that it will not work to plant the best friends. There will not be enough will to act like Stalin, it will not work to continue living in the same spirit, so they are trying (trying) to pave an alternative path. In particular, invent a pill against the temptation of "double loyalty".
                      15. 0
                        April 2 2013 21: 17
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        I would be interested to know what this means?
                        - when the elite is an integral part of the people, at the same time, representatives of the elite are distinguished only by the empowerment of large powers and greater resource capabilities, but at the same time they have a much greater responsibility for the processes in society and in the external environment around this society. Have you tried to consider such a format? Does such a society really need a mediator between the people and the elite in the form of a sole ruler?
                      16. 0
                        April 2 2013 21: 18
                        Quote: ImPerts
                        There will not be enough will to act like Stalin, it will not work to continue living in the same spirit, so they are trying (trying) to pave an alternative path. In particular, invent a pill against the temptation of "double loyalty".
                        - good observation _))) Respect
              2. +1
                April 2 2013 19: 05
                Investing a bunch of money and total control over the development of every penny - and the plant will be successfully built.
              3. +1
                April 2 2013 21: 43
                Scientists ... do not dig there. Do the scientists. That is not the question. Mathematicians fled from the USSR ... yes, they fled! They fled to where their work was turned into iron. The lie that the USSR had an element base comparable with the West, he did not have it. The idiotic Khrushchev-Brezhnev socialism did not moo and did not calve. That is, it was necessary, relatively speaking, to release new electronic components per 20 per year. And the USSR was sluggishly introducing one at a time in five to seven years ... the bosses were in no hurry. They say that this is not necessary for the Soviet person (this person did not need much, according to the bosses), but if for defense ... well, we’ll buy a dozen or two. Or we order to steal, let the agents strain. What is the progress with this approach? Sintered ...
                Why now? Well, it’s generally even easier. Why is construction so rapidly growing in our country, especially at the state expense? It is necessary, say, to fill a thousand cubic meters of rubble in the road section. The boss thinks (wise!) - if he collects money for five hundred cubic meters, he will be torn. Then he (prudent!) Steals 250. And rolls!
                Here the whole point is that the chief responsible for the means and stealing them can cover the rubble, road and volumes with his mind. What about the electronics industry? If you give money to scientists and engineers, then they, like suckers, will spend it on ... the electronics industry! Also, new money will come to beg for this nonsense! And it is impossible to embrace the production of some kind of microprocessors in the bosses mind. Wrong minds are selected for our high positions, these minds are generally arranged differently. It is unclear where you can squeeze these damned scientists to steal and ride. They tried through Roscosmos - what happened? Figs with them, engineers, that they got under the hand.
                The most precious governing heads flew! That is, they were fired ... and this is much worse than death. For who is the Russian boss without a post? A dumb, albeit very cunning, worthless bastard, that's all. Is it with this set of qualities that you grab the kids at the lamborghini, if the position was selected ?! Kashmar ...
                So the financing of these obscure electronic industries will always be on a residual basis. Joseph Vissarionovich! How we miss you !! Well, how so ....
    3. 0
      April 2 2013 11: 37
      ABBYY products are a thing.
    4. 0
      April 3 2013 00: 39
      Grandmas they pinched them. And no fuss. It’s time for them to be included in the list ...
  2. 0
    April 2 2013 06: 10
    Quote: dmitreach
    Nothing personal, just power.
    Looks like ours pinched the Immaculate Elves something painful, that's the fuss ...

    One of the commentators for this article on vpk.name surprised me with the list of our developments ...
    CBOSS, ABBYY, Paragon Software Group, SPIRIT DSP, PROMT, Speech Technology Center, 1C, ASCON, DocsVision, Acronis, Kaspersky Lab, Parallels - the list goes on. These are recognizable products.
  3. +12
    April 2 2013 06: 15
    but also for ordering chips independently developed by T-Platform specialists at any factory in the world

    Why the hell do we use the "factories of the world" when theirs are idle?
    You have to release all the electronics at home, then you won’t have to whine that someone is there, something has closed for us ...
    1. +16
      April 2 2013 06: 31
      Quote: Ivan Tarasov
      I need to release all the electronics

      At us on nanotechnology grandmas can only saw.
      The 90-nanometer chip manufacturing process is not known to us.
      When will Chubais with a scarf around his neck in the bathroom find? angry
      1. Consmo
        +3
        April 2 2013 08: 18
        Yes, like 90 long ago bought. As always in Zelenograd.
      2. +1
        April 2 2013 11: 12
        90 nm at Mikron in 2012 and Angstrom in 2014
      3. 0
        April 2 2013 18: 47
        I think they will find Abramson next, with silk family members around his neck ...
  4. +8
    April 2 2013 06: 17
    Change the name, registration address and pile on sanctions with the device. And in general, you yourself need to impose sanctions on everything in return, the American economy is already bursting at the seams.
    1. OTAKE
      -5
      April 2 2013 06: 32
      For what? :) eg)
      1. +3
        April 2 2013 06: 36
        Quote: OTAKE

        For what? :)

        If by name, then by D-Platforms, if by sanctions ATATA wrote below, you can come up with more options. Before you get to the bottom of SAKHALIN's projects hi
        1. OTAKE
          -7
          April 2 2013 06: 45
          Well, get to know how much Russia will lose from this. :) and again, for some reason, everything falls to the oil and gas industry, for Americans it seems that everything is in order with oil)
          1. +1
            April 2 2013 06: 54
            Quote: OTAKE
            amerikosov seem to be in order with oil)

            With oil, yes so far, but with dough there is a strain. lol
          2. +3
            April 2 2013 07: 20
            Quote: OTAKE
            Well, get to know how much Russia will lose from this.

            Nothing to lose! What do we produce there for their dream liner wink
            1. +3
              April 2 2013 08: 10
              The Nizhny Novgorod plant "Gidromash" had a contract with Boeing for the manufacture of aircraft chassis. The contract has been fulfilled. The plant also took part in programs for the production of Airbus A-320, A-340-200, A-380, Embraer Emb-135/145, Emb-170/175, Emb-190, Global Express, and the Agusta AV-139 helicopter.
      2. Misantrop
        +10
        April 2 2013 09: 42
        Quote: OTAKE
        For what? :)

        Yes, so nonsense. Type of technology for precision processing of products from titanium alloys, uranium fuel composition (let them sit on Westinghouse products), etc. Yes, at least for the purchase of American securities by the reserve fund ...

        You might think that the guys from the USA in Russia do not need anything at all. Promise to cover the fuck transit corridor to Afghanistan, let the tunnel dig from Texas laughing

        And even easier would be to create your own research center. Having guaranteed returning specialists NORMAL earnings and implementation of ideas. And at the gates instead of a banner Chubais by the legs to hang. If those who are working there from our country return, they can bring VERY many interesting things with them ...
        1. +7
          April 2 2013 11: 00
          "And on the gate instead of a banner, hang Chubais by his legs." FOR ONE THAT WAS UNCONVENIENT TO HANG. am
          1. 0
            April 2 2013 17: 00
            Quote: Black Colonel
            "And on the gate instead of a banner, hang Chubais by his legs." FOR ONE THAT WAS UNCONVENIENT TO HANG

            -Then not at all for the legs, but for the middle between the legs? It is both more spectacular and instructive, and the soul will rejoice more for Chubais
            1. 0
              April 2 2013 18: 31
              he needs an electric chair according to the profile of work
      3. vkz
        +5
        April 2 2013 10: 11
        For what?
        For example, deliveries of titanium to Boeing, or RD-180 rocket engine to Lockheed - both of them can use them in their military programs to the detriment of Russia's national security.
  5. +9
    April 2 2013 06: 27
    For a start, to ban, under any pretext, import from the United States to Russia: meat, cars, civilian aircraft, and then look at the reaction.
    Hello. hi
    1. OTAKE
      -6
      April 2 2013 06: 41
      C'mon, where will you get high-tech products? or do you want to sit on a piece of meat on the Internet?
      1. +8
        April 2 2013 06: 48
        Quote: OTAKE
        C'mon, where will you get high-tech products?

        All of the above can be produced in Russia. For this, unknown technologies are not needed.
        For ordinary PS, and here we can make chips.
        And what about PAK FA, C400, ARMATU do we buy in the USA? lol
        Or is it not a high-tech product?
        1. OTAKE
          -2
          April 2 2013 06: 56
          Quote: ATATA
          Quote: OTAKE
          C'mon, where will you get high-tech products?

          All of the above can be produced in Russia. For this, unknown technologies are not needed.

          WHERE? belay
          the line of modern (single-chip, not "type-setting loose", as in the 80s) "Elbrus", today consists of:
          - Elbrus-3M1, 1 core VLIW 300 MHz,
          - Elbrus-S, system-on-a-chip, 1 core VLIW 500 MHz,
          - Elbrus-2S +, 2 VLIW cores, 4 DSP cores, system-on-a-chip? 500 MHz
          500 megahertz? Is this the Terrible answer to the eight-core intellects and AMD? lol Do you really think that producing microprocessors is as easy as producing oil, potatoes or meat?) Why in the whole history only 3 companies entered the world market, INTEL, AMD, VIA? Despite the fact that Via is already actually bent, is there at least one Russian corporation that could be able to counter something similar from Intel’s decisions at least 3 years ago? I won’t talk about Xeons, Opterons .. because Elbrus is the level of the beginning of the 2000s, when I was very young, 500 MHz at Seleron, Kwaku 2 and Doom played, I doubt that Elbrus can even do this, in view of the incomprehensible maintenance of instructions, microproces )
          1. +6
            April 2 2013 07: 10
            Quote: OTAKE
            Is this the Terrible answer to the eight-core intellects and AMD?

            Everything rests on the state will. He must disavow his message about the inaccessibility of 90 nanometers technology for Russia.
            Russia has become the eighth country in the world with 90nm technology, and this will allow domestic manufacturers to occupy niches in the markets of industrial electronics, smart cards, monitoring systems and security. ”

            http://vpk.name/news/65821_rogozin_zapustil_na_mikrone_proizvodstvo_integralnyih

            _microshem.html
            So OTAKE not everything is so gloomy in the short term.
            1. OTAKE
              +4
              April 2 2013 07: 14
              Quote: ATATA
              Everything rests on the state will. He must disavow his message about the inaccessibility of 90 nanometers technology for Russia.

              15.12.12/90/XNUMX - IBM provides Russia with XNUMX-nm process - EETimes.com

              LONDON. IBM Coirp. has agreed to help Russia's Angstrem with 90-nm manufacturing process as part of a broader agreement on collaboration that will range from mathematics to microelectronics and computer science.
              For those who are in the tank, in short, the Americans represented by IBM, give Comrade. Putin in the person of the Zelenograd "Angstrem", 90-nanometer technology.
              If you believe the description of a dual-processor computing complex "Elbrus-90mikro”In the PC ATX construct on the dual R500, then its declared performance on SPECint95 / SPECfp95 (20/16) is fully consistent with the Dell Precision WorkStation 410 on one Pentium III 500 MHz lol
              1. +6
                April 2 2013 07: 45
                I did not understand your post, what did they mean? And then, what difference does it make: presented, stolen, bought it is important what is. Catch up and overtake. In the 70s, in terms of noise, our nuclear submarines were much inferior to the US nuclear submarines; Project 971 in the 80s eliminated this lag. It will be the same with chips. Do not worry. The bulb can be quickly improved only to a certain limit, and then progress freezes. A conditional example, I hope you will understand.
                1. OTAKE
                  +4
                  April 2 2013 08: 00
                  Because this technological process has long been outdated and there’s no sense in it anymore) a command system architecture license costs $ 99, a ready-made implementation is somewhat more expensive, because Comrade Babayan has also filed a processor for SPARC architecture from Sun Microsystems even you can buy a similar license lol and a production line of 110nm from AMD was bought four years ago for over 300 budget megabytes over four years ago, but they still haven’t even bothered to bring the campaign, not even to launch it. For what for it is needed, the money is cut, what kind of processor pile, now you can relax lol By the way, so that you understand about the super-advanced technological process and the performance of the Elbrus processor, I’ll give you just an example, in TX 28 declared gigaflops :) I have an nVIDIA GTX 590 - 2507 gigaflops video card on my computer. Stone Age, damn it. Even if you take double-precision (313 gigaflops), this zhyfors does Baboon's underperformance. To the campaign, even the vidyuha built into the monocub will overtake the baboon :)
                  or here's another:
                  32-bit floating point operations
                  Sega Dreamcast - 1,4 Gflops
                  Microsoft Xbox - 5,8 Gflops
                  Microsoft Xbox 360 - 115,2 Gflops
                  Sony PlayStation 2 - 6,2 Gflops
                  Sony PlayStation Portable - 2,6 Gflops
                  Sony PlayStation 3 - 218 Gflops
                  Nintendo Wii - 2,9 Gflops
                  or just for the sake of completeness, the Mali 400MP graphics accelerator installed in over 9000 smartphones / tablets gives out 10GFLOPs per 300 MHz the processor in your phone at 600 MHz will give a performance comparable to Elbrus, and it doesn’t matter that over 900 budget money was spent on Elbrus, Babayan, by the way in 2004 he moved with part of the staff to a structure controlled by INTEL lol
                  1. nmd_1
                    +8
                    April 2 2013 08: 43
                    Keep on dilettanting, is it a percent for processing radar signals, GAS, in PAK radar stations you also put x86 percent, for example I7? Maybe the Amer shuttles flew on Core2Duo or Corei7? Do not write nonsense, otherwise your emoticons giggling you as an idiot.
                    1. OTAKE
                      +2
                      April 2 2013 08: 45
                      you the link that I gave you, read?)
                  2. +3
                    April 2 2013 09: 13
                    OTAKE I did not write a word about Elbrus anywhere, but in my topic you did not say a word. read and answer higher if not difficult.
                    And yes, what is the technology in chips that steers if 90 nm is already outdated?
                    1. OTAKE
                      +2
                      April 2 2013 09: 18
                      I’m tasting that you didn’t write, I initially started talking about what if Russia stops supplying America with oil / gas / potatoes / meat / vodka, etc., then the damned bourgeois will bend from malnutrition, I subtly hinted to you what would happen if the United States introduced embargo on the supply of high-tech products? will you be sitting on a super Elbrus?) for example, in my computer, right now, the percentage from intel is 0,032 micron technological process, and? 90 nm is the level of the beginning of the 2000s
                      1. +4
                        April 2 2013 09: 41
                        It would be nice if the United States imposed an embargo on microelectronics. Then our priests will tear off their priests from chairs. But once again I tell you the bulbs only to a certain level can be improved. When the processor ceiling is reached, or a fundamentally different technology arises, then everyone will do about the same process.
                      2. +3
                        April 2 2013 17: 12
                        Quote: ATATA
                        When the processor ceiling is reached, or a fundamentally different technology arises, then everyone will do about the same process

                        - Yes, not long left. By 2020-25, they will reach the limits on these chips and start working on chips based on nanotechnology. But for this, Skolkovo conceived - to cut the corner, overtake the amers at the turn, while they scoop up the possibilities of the proven technology to the bottom, overtake the competence in nanotechnology. The idea is good, the embodiment is idiotic - all this "Skolkovo" business was entrusted to representatives of the same ethnic group that rules in the States (the enemy of Russia, I remind you) sad So the result is quite natural - the word "nano" has become synonymous with the word "sleep ... ..dit".
                        Indeed, let the States declare an embargo on the supply of high-tech products - that’s exactly what Russia’s lonely need, excuse me, to start moving
                      3. -1
                        April 2 2013 17: 13
                        Let's not talk about Skolkovo. We visited, we know.
                      4. 0
                        April 2 2013 17: 30
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        Let's not talk about Skolkovo. We have known

                        - Specifically, in my post are there any reasonable objections? I wrote,
                        1. that the idea is good - prove that the idea is not good. Have a clue about nanotechnology?
                        2. I wrote that the result was a failure, because the wrong people were instructed - prove that there is a result in Skolkovo, well, at least some result, well, at least a little rejoice.
                        3. Prove that the word "nanotechnology" in Russia is not synonymous with the word "steal on an especially large scale."
                        And yours:
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        Let's not talk about Skolkovo. We visited, we know.
                        - it is not clear why and it is not clear about what. One gets the impression that someone "Sergey_K" has come, understands everything, is indignant, but cannot say anything. Are you a four-legged friend? Or are you a student? If neither, please be clear and clear about your thoughts. To speak Russian? karaso to own?
                      5. 0
                        April 2 2013 17: 55
                        Hooked?

                        Sergey_K came to the appropriate topic. Not the topic where for the umpteenth time they are discussing Ukraine, the United States, and even the devil knows what.

                        Who are you to prove something to you? And as for how skolkovo I can answer, but before that answer me one question, you're an expert, apparently, so:
                        What do the corridors in Rusnano look like, what sensation is created, what kind of buns have you seen? Skolkovo is similar.
                        Let me explain what I ask, if you prove something, then to a person who is at least superficially familiar with the topic. Not nanotechnology, but the specific places in question. In Google there are no answers to my question - they can be known by the person who is there.
                        If you answer, I will prove it. And if not, then you are a balabol and you don’t mean anything in this particular topic.
                      6. 0
                        April 2 2013 19: 01
                        I’m not going to guess about your subjective feelings at the sight of those corridors - how much can you think of? And even kill - I won’t believe that a person who does not know how to write correctly and clearly express his idea is at least some worthwhile specialist.
                        Do not prove to me anything, I do not need it and I do not need it. I just ask you to justify your posts, because you are answering my posts and questioning my allegations - so be so kind as to reasonably and reasonably, and not just sprinkle with saliva, like I don’t need to talk about it - I was there ... Well, I was there and what ?
                      7. 0
                        April 2 2013 19: 12
                      8. 0
                        April 2 2013 21: 36
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        I do not understand.
                        Such embarrassment came out from Skolkovo, but such a finale was clear from the very beginning.
                        And a good idea was discredited by this incompetent embodiment. Probably forever. Now the word nano will be associated with another
                      9. +1
                        April 2 2013 23: 08
                        Quote: Sergey_K
                        What do the corridors in Rusnano look like, what sensation is created, what kind of buns have you seen?


                        Is it in the Southwest at Principal Plaza business center or what? at the metro. Academic like. The ceilings in the corridors and halls are equipped with LED lights, as well as ordinary offices. About two years ago there was nothing special)))
                      10. +1
                        April 2 2013 23: 14
                        RUSNANO, Skolkovo and RVC office in the USA
          2. nmd_1
            +11
            April 2 2013 08: 25
            You are an amateur! The prots of Elbrus are not x86, they are intended primarily for defense and in their sphere they are much more interesting than intel, although according to the last lines you wrote, everything falls into place, for you, proces (etc.) = play toys.
            1. OTAKE
              -5
              April 2 2013 08: 40
              http://4pda.ru/2012/12/30/84403/ smile I'm not x86, the question is what software will work on the SPARC architecture and how much more money you need to integrate to integrate it.
              It has been produced since June 2008 at the TSMC factory in Taiwan based on a library of standard cells.
              Defense is our FSE) can we produce defense products right away in America?)
            2. OTAKE
              -1
              April 2 2013 09: 01
              Quote: nmd_1
              they are much more interesting than intel

              There is only one drawback in foreign processes - they were not made by Baboon. :) your logic is killing)
              1. nmd_1
                +3
                April 2 2013 11: 47
                Where you saw such logic in me, wishful thinking you give out. The main plus in domestic processes oriented on OUR defense industrythat they do not cut down at the command of the enemy. They are narrowly specialized and it’s not worth comparing horseradish with a finger, different things, that’s what they write to you about. So horseradish (a member) has other functions than a finger, again, the thickness and length of horseradish with a finger are not the same, as it is used for different functions (in your case, you point your finger at the wrong place, you need to get there with horseradish)
                1. OTAKE
                  -3
                  April 2 2013 16: 04
                  Yes, you’re a horseradish expert) shitty expert, adit) you haven’t read the correspondence above, I didn’t talk about the defense industry, because I don’t care what percentage of the SU-35 is there, or what percentage of the Moscow air defense Pentium, Atlon or Elbrus, I’m interested in what I have in the systematics, in the case of the introduction of an embargo by the United States.) You can’t understand this)
                  1. +1
                    April 2 2013 18: 48
                    100500 -, but I don’t give a damn what kind of crap is in mine, if I need to, I can also transfer type 486 or hemp of the first to nicks on some old scandal, since there is a console browser in the penguin, and there’s a potential of 500 MHz in the early 2000s the truth on the 2 processor platform served as a server in my school for 500 computers, not so bad.
                  2. nmd_1
                    0
                    April 3 2013 07: 33
                    Oh uel so uel, straight Petrasyan, eat a skid. Well, I’m trying to explain it not on my fingers, since for this you need a special education. Belarus (923) with Dodge Ram, also compare according to one criteria and functionality, in your opinion, if Dodge eats faster along the way, then Belarus is omno. For the post, if yes, if only we would give them something, but they would tell us this, personally I did not write anything, not a claim to me. It all started with your comparison of Elbrus with other people.
          3. Avenger711
            +5
            April 2 2013 08: 40
            Do not compare processors of different architectures in frequency.
          4. +5
            April 2 2013 09: 07
            OTAKE
            Kloin go learn CPU architecture and their views then gurgle in the comments
            1. OTAKE
              -4
              April 2 2013 09: 09
              Quote: leon-iv
              OTAKE
              Kloin go learn CPU architecture and their views then gurgle in the comments

              don’t worry, I’ve studied it, for a long time, on the basis of this we can conclude that the percentage is still raw, crooked and not optimized, but it was pulled into the puddle before the appointed one.)
          5. +4
            April 2 2013 10: 24
            Quote: OTAKE
            500 megahertz? Is this the Terrible answer to the eight-core intellects and AMD?

            Have you ever wondered why, with the same Hertz, the number of cores and cache, Intel and AMD have different performance? )))
            Read something on Wikipedia, maybe the first thought will be born in Moscow.
          6. +4
            April 2 2013 12: 34
            90 nm technology mastered in Russia
            And this:
            MTsST-4R (4 cores 1 GHz)

            this technology also produced:
            Intel Pentium 4 (Prescott) - 1 core up to 3,8 GHz
            AMD Turion 64 X2 (mobile) - 2 cores up to 2,4 GHz
      2. +7
        April 2 2013 07: 21
        Quote: OTAKE

        C'mon, where are you going to get high-tech products?

        Like everything in China laughing
        1. OTAKE
          -4
          April 2 2013 07: 27
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: OTAKE

          C'mon, where are you going to get high-tech products?

          Like everything in China laughing

          how is it all simple with you, who will give it to you laughing China produces its own prots?) Do you know what GlobalFoundries, TSMC, UMC are? China or Russia can leaders in semiconductor manufacturing? You think that China itself induces movement, you are very naive to believe lol
          1. nmd_1
            +6
            April 2 2013 08: 46
            At the beginning of next 2013, China is going to introduce its new 8-core processor, called Godson. The presentation will demonstrate the latest developments in the field of chip production, as well as comparative characteristics with AMD, Intel and ARM. A company called Loongson Technology, which is partially funded by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, will provide information on a processor with a frequency of 1,35 GHz - Godson 3B1500, whose performance is at the level of 172,8 gigaflops (while the power consumption is 40 W)
            Godson is based on the MIPS64 instruction set from the chip maker MIPS, which was absorbed by the British Imagination Technologies. Unlike other processors, Godson chips are not supported on Windows platforms and usually work on various Linux variants. It is worth noting that Android 4.1 has already been ported to the MIPS architecture.
            Your next face, ignoramus! laughing
            1. OTAKE
              -5
              April 2 2013 08: 53
              facepalm, not facepal :) do you read the above correspondence or not?) in the event of an embargo from the usa, how will the internal Russian market take out the lack of high-tech products? monoblocks "Elbrus" or super Chinese prots with a performance of 178 Gflops! :) about 178 you can tell someone else) 178 GFLOPS at 1 GHz on 8 cores means that one core executes 16 floating point instructions per clock. For the sake of such a Nobel committee should add up all its prizes and make one instead of them - for the development of this processor. again, umc GlobalFoundries TSMC doesn’t tell you anything? Where will you take semiconductors? :)
              1. +5
                April 2 2013 09: 08
                Lal Elbrus are sharpened specifically for certain tasks in which all other x86 platforms will do sasai-sasai
                1. OTAKE
                  -5
                  April 2 2013 09: 13
                  what tasks? rockets to shoot down?) you will come home, turn on a super monoblock from Elbrus in which even a polymer case is stamped somewhere in China and start to shoot down rockets in droves?) maybe Baboon just forgot to tell the Americans that they actually can’t live without his crypto protector gouging Japan, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Syria ...?)
                  1. +4
                    April 2 2013 10: 55
                    what tasks? shoot down rockets?
                    In addition to pointing racket there are still many places where you need prots.
                  2. nmd_1
                    +1
                    April 2 2013 11: 57
                    Forget you already about the founder of "Elbrus", so much water has flowed under the bridge and the architecture has changed since the first Elbrus.
              2. nmd_1
                +3
                April 2 2013 11: 55
                didn't finish writing the letter, so what? You don’t want to admit your mistake that you screwed up, but start skipping the topic right away. You wrote for China, I answered, so where do you get semiconductors? :) "The Chinese have them. Here's another rukalit for you!
                1. OTAKE
                  -3
                  April 2 2013 16: 06
                  Ketayans have everything, but for some reason, the leaders in the production of semiconductors GF UMC TSMC and you still have not bothered to go at least into pedagogy and find out what it is: D
                  1. nmd_1
                    0
                    April 3 2013 07: 22
                    I know about these shabrik factories, 12 years in the IT field, for this I do not even need to go into the wiki. Read the correspondence yourself, from what post I began to answer you, where did the essence of the conversation come from. I remind you that I left a comment on your post where you started to compare horseradish with your finger (I didn’t assume that it’s hard for you to distinguish them, I wouldn’t have exchanged them), on the post about what we’ll do if amers draw us a damn , I didn’t answer, since it’s not real business, his mother. Open your eyes and read carefully, although I do not care wink
                    1. OTAKE
                      +1
                      April 3 2013 08: 55
                      Monoblock from craft with TPU secretary, also for the benefit of our DEFENSE to work? : D surrenders to me you still did not understand what I was initially talking about from above)
                      1. Yarbay
                        -1
                        1 May 2013 13: 18
                        Quote: OTAKE
                        it seems to me you didn’t understand what I was talking about from above)


                        I agree!!
          2. +2
            April 2 2013 10: 53
            China makes its own proces
            For example, they order from us in Taiwan only for SPRN, they do with us while the R-500 are going to launch the R-1000.
            And if you want to shed tears of crocodile about the race that has shed all the polymers in electronics, then this is not here, write on the hub, for example, and see the result.
            and so the USSR was 10-15 years behind Russia for a maximum of 3-5 years. For 90 nm mastered
            And plan to have 10nm
            http://www.nanonewsnet.ru/blog/nikst/rosnano-investiruet-v-bezmasochnuyu-litogra
            fiyu-s-resolution-do-10-nm
      3. +4
        April 2 2013 09: 18
        Dear, if you know, then not only is the development of high-tech industries in the United States .... Take the BRICS countries, see the statistics of production segments of high-tech. The United States, in such a way, themselves close healthy competition, without which development is impossible.
        1. OTAKE
          0
          April 2 2013 09: 23
          you are now sitting at the computer, do you have at least something in it from the peripheral components, developed by the BRICS countries?
          1. nmd_1
            +3
            April 2 2013 12: 04
            You confuse consumer electronics and highly specialized. The article was about a highly specialized percent.
            1. OTAKE
              -5
              April 2 2013 16: 09
              I’m talking about the consumer segment, sorry, I don’t fly SU-MiGs, I don’t sit at the C-N00 console, I don’t control the anti-missile defense in which "specialized" processes are needed, I sit at the computer, and I really see and know the components that are in it. that's why I'm talking about the civilian market. and everything pulls you into a scoop, everything goes to the defense industry, but to the defense industry, and even then not to say that it is a breakthrough quality.
              1. -1
                April 2 2013 17: 12
                Some citizens do not understand that the population is ahead, then the economy, then the army, then the influence in the world, etc.
                The perverted system at the head of which the military-industrial complex is as dead in essence as the current economy at the head of which is followed by the population.
                This cannot be. For the population is the sun, which is the root cause of all movements in the economy, and the economy draws an army, etc.

                The consumer segment is an essential component of the economy. Without it, it makes no sense to wait for miracles from military equipment. For there will be no money and there will be no development.
                1. +2
                  April 2 2013 17: 27
                  I hear the voice of Gaidar)) The ideology of consumerism.

                  The main thing is the state, as the highest form of organization of the population. Only a strong state can protect the interests of the population.
                  And for Russia, the military industrial complex is not a whim, but a way of being.

                  Consumerism is only possible with markets where you can squeeze nishtyaki. Now nishtyaki for the Western world are coming to an end.
                  1. +1
                    April 2 2013 17: 37
                    As far as I remember, Gaidar had an economy ahead and he believed that the population was lice on the body of the economy. We are observing this approach now.

                    The highest form of organization is anarchy if that. This is when everyone limits himself and the central institute of management is not needed at all. Utopia in general ...

                    In your opinion, it turns out that the state appeared earlier than the population of this state.

                    The problem is that nishtyaki never end. May end the whole west, Russia, China. And after a great war, two monkeys will sit on a pile of ashes - and one of them will have a club clasped with a piece of metal. And the second will envy her.
                    1. 0
                      April 2 2013 17: 46
                      Quote: Sergey_K
                      The highest form of organization is anarchy if that. This is when everyone limits himself and the central institute of management is not needed at all. Utopia in general ...

                      - nonsense laughing
                      1. 0
                        April 2 2013 18: 02
                        Start with Wikipedia, and there you can become an anarchist.
                    2. +1
                      April 2 2013 17: 50
                      The Gaidar ahead had an invisible hand of the market - those are just the consumer segment. Which in fact led to the impoverishment of the huge Soviet middle class.

                      The state before the population ??? No. But the state at this moment is the most progressive form of unification of people. Other alternatives are utopian.

                      If the nishtyaks were eternal, then the idea of ​​the "golden billion" would not arise. And now this billion will be cut off, since there is not enough for everyone.
                      1. +1
                        April 2 2013 18: 07
                        "Gaidar had the invisible hand of the market in front of them - they were just the consumer segment. That actually led to the impoverishment of the huge Soviet middle class."
                        - what is this segment? The thieves? Bandits? Well, call a spade a spade.
                        "The state before the population ??? No. But the state is currently the most progressive form of uniting people. Other alternatives are utopian."
                        - Absolutely agree. But you just confirmed my chain.
                        "If the nishtyaks were eternal, the ideas of the" golden billion "would not have arisen. And now this billion will be cut off - because there is not enough for everyone."
                        - Well, what does it have to do with it. I’m nishtyaki to you, but you are talking about weaning them.

                        However, you agree that there will always be material values. The question is, who consumes and produces them?
                        Well, with a chain of concepts, I think there is no point in arguing either?
                  2. +2
                    April 2 2013 17: 44
                    Quote: kuga
                    I hear the voice of Gaidar)) The ideology of consumerism.

                    Respect, Kugo. Only correct - the main SOCIETY as the highest form of organization of the population. And the state is an institutional-bureaucratic apparatus created by society to solve its own goals and objectives.
                2. 0
                  April 2 2013 21: 51
                  Quote: Sergey_K
                  Some citizens do not understand that the population is ahead, then the economy, then the army, then the influence in the world, etc.
                  Mr. Evidence, this is understandable, and what's next? It is clear that without a population there is no economy and without an army an army is not needed, and it will not exist if there is no population. What did you want to say? Unclear request

                  Quote: Sergey_K
                  The perverted system at the head of which the military-industrial complex is as dead in essence as the current economy at the head of which is followed by the population.
                  - think as you like. But the military-industrial complex is an HTTP driver, and nothing can be done about it. This is an objective reality. To remind, for what purposes the world's first computer "ENIAC" was created. Remind me for what purpose the data transmission system was created, which became the prototype of the Internet? Can you suggest any other driver?
                  If you think that the population will become a driver, then I’ll give an example - the founder of SONY remembered how such a gadget of the past as a player was born. For some reason, a compact device was needed by the Japanese special services (military, special services - what's the difference?) They ordered this from Sony and paid for R&D, and after creating it, they bought the right batch and disappeared. The leaders began to think what to do with this device, which they already got like this for free. They decided to promote among young people. Hired couples with players began to walk along the popular beaches with this device. Everything worked out. So the founder of SONY himself admits - if someone came to him with this idea, without money, without willingness to pay for R&D, like, take a chance, create and promote - his founder would politely send him on a long journey with an erotic bias. Here you have the population first! Keep hating the military-industrial complex?
                3. 0
                  April 2 2013 22: 33
                  Quote: Sergey_K
                  The consumer segment is an essential component of the economy. Without it, it makes no sense to wait for miracles from military equipment. For there will be no money and there will be no development.
                  - Now we will argue, what is more important - the head or the priest? Without a head - I don’t think, without a priest - not ... in general it is clear laughing
                4. Yarbay
                  +1
                  1 May 2013 13: 19
                  Quote: Sergey_K
                  The perverted system at the head of which the military-industrial complex is as dead in essence as the current economy at the head of which is followed by the population.
                  This cannot be. For the population is the sun, which is the root cause of all movements in the economy, and the economy draws an army, etc.

                  The consumer segment is an essential component of the economy. Without it, it makes no sense to wait for miracles from military equipment. For there will be no money and there will be no development.

                  1000 ++++++++++
      4. +2
        April 2 2013 12: 23
        Damn you give. Everything is made in China. Well, we won’t survive on the nameplate gadget of any well-known American brand. Well, let's start finally producing something ourselves. Software is not a problem, its manufacturers are full.
        1. +4
          April 2 2013 12: 58
          1. THANK YOU VERY MUCH to everyone discussing here - a wonderful "educational program" for many of us. The above dispute turned out to be much more interesting for me than the article that caused this dispute.
          2. All only "plus" - all comments in the topic, except, of course, "insult".
          hi
        2. OTAKE
          +1
          April 2 2013 16: 10
          lol nameplate? SHIELD?) Omerikosy only nameplates produce? Oh well.. )
          1. rolik
            +2
            April 2 2013 16: 59
            lol
            Quote: OTAKE
            Omerikos only produce nameplates?

            No, they also produce green toilet paper)))) hamsters with clave in their paws, jeans, hamburgers and "democracy"))))
      5. 0
        April 2 2013 23: 01
        Otake, which means: where "YOU" will take?
        Ah, are you from another sandbox with the name ... tan?
        1. OTAKE
          +3
          April 3 2013 05: 35
          I'm from Tel Aviv lol
          1. rolik
            -1
            April 3 2013 23: 02
            Quote: OTAKE
            I'm from Tel Aviv

            Did you flog this Russian flask? fool
            1. OTAKE
              +2
              April 4 2013 05: 33
              Quote: rolik
              Did you flog this Russian flask?

              pale to nebylo)
              1. Yarbay
                -1
                1 May 2013 13: 23
                Quote: OTAKE
                pale to nebylo)

                killed)))
  6. CCA
    CCA
    +9
    April 2 2013 06: 32
    Quote: Ivan Tarasov
    You have to release all the electronics at home, then you won’t have to whine that someone is there, something has closed for us ...

    While reading the article, the same comment spun in the language ... Information technology and electronics, in today's world - one of the points of state sovereignty ...
  7. +9
    April 2 2013 06: 34
    Yusovtsy shamelessly steal scientific developments in all countries, patent at home, and then brazenly begin to slow down the development of all mankind, forbidding inventors to use what they stole from them. There is no number for examples.
    Popov invented the radio, Marconi took the patent,
    Losev invented the transistor; a patent was taken by someone from USAA,
    Lodygin invented an incandescent lamp; a patent was taken by Edison, etc.
    1. +1
      April 2 2013 22: 19
      Quote: Corsair5912
      There is no number for examples.
      - The clearest example is the invention of the laser. Prokhorov and Basov were the first! But then the amers popped up, like at the same time as your Prokhorov and Basov, it was invented by Upatnieks and someone else there! Yes, even earlier, they just did not have time to publish! Is this an occasion now to deprive poor American scientists of their well-deserved priority? the business smelled of serious scientific conflict, and as a result, in order not to inflate it, we agreed on parity. Like, ideally, minute by minute, this most important invention occurred to four different people in different parts of the world. Do you believe in this nonsense? In-in! Trite amers lied and pushed lies with their political weight. Yes, they are constantly trying to take vodka from Russia, they do not spare grants for historical research, if only there is evidence that vodka is not a Russian drink! If only the amers would twist Russia! The story with the SUBJ, with the T-platform, would seem like a kindergarten! The technology and goals of intellectual property theft are clear. If the amers continue this way, then it would be better to have a war, based on the results of a gain in which it would be possible to reconsider the format of relations with intellectual property that was formed in America’s interests. Otherwise, the amers will cover both the amers and the Russians; they will not let them rest. An extremely dangerous technology gap will begin. And this is security! This is by no means!
    2. rolik
      0
      April 3 2013 23: 04
      Quote: Corsair5912
      Popov invented the radio, Marconi took the patent,

      Marconi, Italian))))))
  8. +4
    April 2 2013 06: 41
    Naturally, I want to understand how, nevertheless, the company was blacklisted (quote)
    It's like in Krylov's fable: "..you are only to blame for the fact that I want to eat" - it is written directly about the amerios. And this herd is ready to steal everything, deceive everyone and profit from everything !!! Well, the society was created by the Lord
  9. +1
    April 2 2013 06: 45
    This issue requires a serious state program with decent and secure funding and with "statists" at the head, and I think that success is guaranteed then ...
  10. _arbit
    +2
    April 2 2013 06: 48
    At one time, they squeezed money on Babayan, and sold it with giblets and with all the technologies and developments on Elbrus over a hill, and here is the result ... but not even 10 years have passed even more like. Sorry very sorry :(
  11. vladsolo56
    +7
    April 2 2013 07: 03
    Bullshit, how long everyone will dance to the tune of the Americans. There are interests of the country, and everything else is not important, but let them come from anger. It’s time to learn how to spit on all kinds of prohibitions; there are Russia's interests; everything else is rubbish.
    1. +5
      April 2 2013 13: 00
      Quote: vladsolo56
      There are interests of the country,

      Right...

      The answer should sound on state level.
    2. +1
      April 2 2013 19: 00
      but it seems to me that it will be so, they are running out of money now, if macroinflation is launched even less and in order for companies to survive in the market they will sell any "beads" just not to disappear, the precedent, as they say, is toshiba with their machines, remember
  12. +3
    April 2 2013 07: 26
    If Americans don’t like it, then it’s worth it! Would not ruin yours!
  13. Boot under the carpet
    0
    April 2 2013 07: 58
    It is interesting that in these machines domestic, even if a banal wok, we do not produce. No, ok, I saw optical crosses :)
  14. +2
    April 2 2013 08: 19
    The usual crowding out of a competitor from the market. But is there really no use in their own country? This is where the interests of the owner clash with the interests of the state. It is clear that selling abroad brings more profit. But maybe there will be less profit, but it will be + good for the state?
  15. Consmo
    +8
    April 2 2013 08: 44
    In general, modern computers are the parallelization of those processes + programs
    The photo even shows the optics in the cabinets drags the signal to independent processors.
    Since computers and programs are 0 and 1. And nothing more. And that means speed depends not only on the speed of the processor, but also on how and on what basis the program is made. For example, you can make a program so (in binary code, assembler) that it will work faster on a 286 processor than on a modern one, with a huge number of software add-ons
    Gamers will not let lie, the program slowed down both in the middle of 90 and now.
    This is called swollen program code to which all computer resources fly away, as long as you don’t.
    hi In the 80s, a code from the remote control entered 16 zeroes and ones, then again and again.
    And it worked. Our craftsmen made a program, the robot poured a bottle of vodka into 3 glasses. After that, customers signed all the papers for the delivery of equipment. feel
    1. 0
      April 2 2013 09: 19
      Say the truth sir hi
    2. Cat
      0
      April 2 2013 12: 01
      Swollen program code is a consequence of development speed. For example, how long does it take to write a primitive text editor in assembler? And with the help of some RAD well, like Delphi?
      A software product is needed now, but better yesterday. And the user does not care that he will weigh an order of magnitude or two more. That is, I mean that while craftsmen will be picking with binary code, doing something compact and smart, their creation will become useless to anyone.
    3. -1
      April 2 2013 16: 20
      People mixed up in a bunch, horses ... I feel a professional)) Like my mother calls the system unit the processor ..

      "The photo even shows the optics in the cabinets dragging the signal to independent processors." - your lie

      "Since computers and programs are 0 and 1. And nothing more. And this means the speed depends not only on the speed of the processor, but also on how and on the basis of which the program is made. For example, you can compose a program like this in (binary code, assembler ) that will work faster on a 286 processor than on a modern one, with a huge number of software add-ons "- NO, fundamentally wrong. Although, in fairness, programs written in low-level languages ​​are faster than the SAME ones written in high-level languages. But bad luck, you can't do much in assembly language ...

      "In the 80s, they entered the code from the remote control 16 zeros and ones, then again and again.
      And everything worked. "- well, since everything worked, so maybe theirs, gigahertz, kernels, supercomputers?

      Please note, we are talking about the 80s, about the bearded Assembler, and we are already using foreign terms - here you have the level of the then USSR in this area ...
  16. +3
    April 2 2013 09: 18
    USA in its repertoire, rednecks in one word. But they themselves use pirated software and do not blow into the mustache. And there too. The idea of ​​world domination haunts us, they cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that ephemeral power flows like water through fingers. Pyzhat, dirty tricks.
  17. fenix57
    +7
    April 2 2013 09: 36
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    And finally, we ourselves need to impose sanctions on everything in return, the American economy is already bursting at the seams. Let's get it on the sly.

    Following the established tradition, it is time to use "heavy artillery" - of course Gennady Onishchenko. Its advantage is that you don't need to ask anyone for permission.
    1. +4
      April 2 2013 11: 37
      RELIABILITY AND SUPPORT OF THE RUSSIAN EARTH !!!
      1. 0
        April 2 2013 19: 06
        Quote: Black Colonel
        RELIABILITY AND SUPPORT OF THE RUSSIAN EARTH !!!

        yeah like the army and navy laughing
  18. 0
    April 2 2013 09: 59
    Babayan or baboon ... Gigaflops are a good thing, but it seems to me that everything rests not only on them. Do Americans have a similar "Don-2N" in the suburbs?
  19. +4
    April 2 2013 10: 00
    well, if someone hoped that - "Abroad will help us!" No. , then, for them recently there was a hint-hint from Cyprus - and this is a continuation, and then they will only press and choke wherever they can ...... so - it is necessary for "good" - "good" to pay .... to drain the reserves of dollars and euros - then it will be seen who will ... let them have "dashing 2000" am
  20. KoRSaR1
    +1
    April 2 2013 10: 10
    This is by the way for those who want to buy weapons over the hill, be it iveco, or leopards, one fine day, so it would definitely happen. And the company itself is to blame, they know what kind of world we live in, and if there is no base of our own, why jump above your head, then, by the way about Putins and "Oskolkovo", where the grandmothers go, no one knows, they develop shampoo without soap in Skolkovo , since 2000, not a single plant has been built, only destroyed and privatized, so reap the benefits.
  21. KoRSaR1
    0
    April 2 2013 10: 17
    Quote: Dart Weyder
    well, if someone hoped that - "Abroad will help us!" No. , then, for them recently there was a hint-hint from Cyprus - and this is a continuation, and then they will only press and choke wherever they can ...... so - it is necessary for "good" - "good" to pay .... to drain the reserves of dollars and euros - then it will be seen who will ... let them have "dashing 2000" am

    In order to lower something, you need to buy something with this money, consider stimulating, again what ?! And it will be later, they have the 2000s and we have the 90-98ths again, the default will be, everything is tied to the dollar.
  22. +2
    April 2 2013 10: 18
    Not in megahertz it is, but in principle the processor. Take a graphic chip from nvidea and ati - the differences in the element base (number of transistors) are many times! And the ability to display graphics are comparable ..
  23. +6
    April 2 2013 11: 14
    Moreover, as far as we know, the order came from German Chancellor Merkel after a call from US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who emphasized that cooperation with Russia in such a sensitive area is undesirable


    Eh Germans-Germans ... and at some time I even began to respect them for the fact that they are pursuing a truly independent foreign policy when they opposed NATO interference in the internal affairs of Iraq and when they did not send their troops to Libya. But as we see, not everything is so smooth. Merkel is on sale !!! crying
    Although not the first year, alarming rumors have been circulating. The Germans were extremely upset by the 2008 war and were especially disappointed by the fact that Putin was re-elected as president. It seems that there were even rumors that after 2008 the Germans initiated the creation of a plan for a large-scale attack on the Russian Federation. And they were practically allies. This once again proves that Russia has only 2 allies: its army and navy! soldier

    Regardless of the reasons that led to the inclusion of T-Platforms on the American black list, it is clear that maintaining this dependence of our industry and defense on the goodwill of the Americans and their allies makes our technological sovereignty very conditional.


    Until we ourselves create everything ourselves without someone's control, we will not be truly independent. too simply all our achievements are interrupted by "a couple of aces" on the part of "overseas partners".

    The Soviet Union, although it was lagging behind the United States in the field of microelectronics, owned almost the entire spectrum of the necessary technologies, and most importantly, had electronic engineering, which made it possible to manufacture all the necessary equipment. Now, alas, everything has changed: over the past 20 years, most of the technologies have been lost, industry research institutes eke out a miserable existence or shut down, and electronic engineering is almost completely lost.


    As for me, it’s better to lag behind even by 10 years, but to have everything of its own: production facilities, technology and, as a result, patents, scientific base, then there will be competition. The rest would catch up with time.
    It would not be bad to start developing processors for mobile devices, namely mobile phones, tablets, etc. Currently, only 2 companies are competing here: Nvidia and Qualcomm. This is a very profitable segment to which you should pay attention.
  24. Cat
    0
    April 2 2013 11: 39
    Quote: dmitreach
    Nothing personal, just power


    Nothing personal, just money
  25. +1
    April 2 2013 11: 45
    these ghouls in the 90s stole everything from us, traitors exported tons of drawings and diagrams, and now these whiskers fix obstacles nits .... ok
    for some reason it seems to me that such obstacles will eventually pour out to them sideways, since the unpredictability of the Russian brain will work a miracle and get out of the situation on its own, but after it the striped ones will never rise anywhere
  26. 120352
    +1
    April 2 2013 12: 03
    People came to America from the territory of Chukotka, (Russia) along the Berengia in the period between the Zyryansk and Sartan glaciations. Therefore, everything that is produced in America has our roots. And it is not for them to tell us how to behave: "eggs do not teach a chicken." Better let the compensation pay us, for the fact that we allowed them to live there.
  27. satellite
    -1
    April 2 2013 12: 23
    Yes, do not care about Amerov, China at hand, he already produces almost all components
    1. 0
      April 2 2013 13: 02
      Do not flatter yourself. US patent holders. Look at who owns a majority stake in semiconductor corporations and all your illusions about China will disappear. The fact that high technology has been brought to Southeast Asia and China still does not mean anything.
  28. amp
    amp
    +1
    April 2 2013 12: 42
    Russia must blacklist Bush's legs.
    1. 0
      April 3 2013 01: 24
      Bush's exact-legs are poisonous, rotten dual-use items am
  29. +2
    April 2 2013 12: 59
    It’s time to blacklist all of the US oil companies and their banks - but alas, to see the gut is thin, as they began to bow before the German and English barons, under Peter, so by tradition we are now fawning !!!
  30. 0
    April 2 2013 14: 24
    These actions by amerikosov indicate that the "T-platforms" are beginning to conquer the market and are going in the right direction. Unfair competition from the West has always been and will always be.
  31. +1
    April 2 2013 15: 18
    .. semiconductor properties graphene can form the basis for new types of device systems and can fundamentally change the semiconductor industry ....
    Russia would not be missed here ...
    1. 0
      April 2 2013 15: 30
      Russia has already missed here. The Nobel laureate is our fellow countryman who has gone away from registrations, bribes, officials, Caucasians in the subway, etc.
      1. 0
        April 2 2013 22: 39
        and came to the unbridled buggers I mean, tolerasts, and the bureaucrats there are the same, especially I do not advise getting into the field of interest from the side of Amer fiscals laughing Sewed on soap, believed the old obsolete stereotypes. It would not hurt them to remember that in this country of registrations, bribes, officials and Caucasians in the subway, it was in them that they received a brilliant education, and completely free of charge. They also received a scholarship for studying at a university !! And the results from this knowledge are given to a hostile country !!!! am sad
        I think it would be nice to recover from them in full. Five years of study -60 months. Forty rubles a month is 2400 rubles only scholarships, heavy Soviet rubles! And for the very study at school, in high school - pay a lot! And turn on the counter - otherwise a pick or polonium. This is for such inventors about Caucasians in the subway. I also have an excuse laughing
        1. 0
          April 2 2013 23: 13
          Maybe yes, maybe no. Life will show. There is no brain drain, everything is in openwork.
  32. 0
    April 2 2013 15: 19
    Wow, what a battle! There are no processors! Here the Minister of Education said that engineers in the modern economy are not particularly needed! Bourgeois engineers are gathered from all over the world - but they are not needed in Russia ...

    Regarding processors, the union was very seriously lagging behind in this area. First, they stole foreign developments - etched layers and copied. But when it became impossible to bleed due to the delicate technical process - everything was completely bent. Because all Scientific Research Institute of Radio Electronics, which should have made up the gap, were bent.

    Now, you have to go all the way. Starting point - 90nm process technology purchased from AMD. Purchased a long time ago - at the exit zilch.

    An integrated approach is needed. It is necessary to attract engineers, salary in the first place. And this will never happen. Potos, what else with the USSR is an engineer a young specialist, a dead end branch of development. With us, an eng will never receive more than a manager, a specialist in finance, etc., although in this area they serve the interests of engineers.
    It is necessary to promote internal migration, then people-production links will be concentrated.
    In the meantime, we continue to put only sticks in the wheels in this direction.

    At the government level, you can negotiate with the Chinese about technology transfer - but in Russia they will face collapse and oblivion.

    For example, I did not move over the hill only because there were not enough good offers ...
    1. 0
      April 2 2013 15: 47
      Yes, and yet, processors as such are not the hardest part. There are still a lot of components that are superior in CPU technology.
    2. 0
      April 2 2013 17: 57
      Quote: Sergey_K
      For example, I did not move over the hill only because there were not enough good offers ...

      Wages and suited here? And the working conditions? And I always heard that they paid little. I quit the army because of this. In shaggy 2001-m.
      1. +1
        April 2 2013 18: 18
        I didn’t understand all the questions. You see, there is a certain limit that can be achieved by working as an engineer. This limit is different in different countries / companies. I haven’t reached it yet. But I feel that at such a pace in about 5 years there will no longer be another way to try to lead, but I'm not interested, I love my pieces of iron. It's not about money, I get enough not to think about it 24 \ 7, although the mortgage in Moscow is not available to me))

        And here comes the moment when if you want to create more, to participate in serious projects - there is only one way. Abroad. The capacity of this market segment in the Russian Federation is very small and either geniuses or someone’s mediocrity sons get there (but they usually manage)
        That is, there are three options:
        1. Winding fishing rods
        2. Continue to sit exactly like my boss. Pros with a capital letter. I owe him everything I can.
        3. Go to our research institute. Get 15000 and go with interest against the tide.
        1. 0
          April 2 2013 23: 27
          Quote: Sergey_K
          either geniuses or someone’s mediocrity sons get (but they usually lead)
          - old song, we heard nothing new ...

          Quote: Sergey_K
          The capacity of this market segment in the Russian Federation is very small.

          - the capacity of all segments in the Russian market is small compared to global and even Amer. So what? And the connection between why the capacity is small and what you do not capture in the SABZh? To explain? Today they crushed the T-platform, tomorrow the E-platform, then the U-platform and uh! finally crush and I-platform! Then there will be no capacities of any segments in Russia. It's as clear as day! And there are two ways out — either like yours:
          Quote: Sergey_K
          . Reel fishing rods
          “But they do, rats very sorry.”
          Or to put pressure on its political leadership so that it would nevertheless come up with effective ways of counteracting such pressure and thereby contribute to the fact that all these Platforms would finally breathe deeply. This is the direct responsibility of the Russian political leadership! Tell me the other responsibilities of the Guide. There are many of them, but this is the main thing! Political assistance to your economy is the main thing!
  33. lechatormosis
    0
    April 2 2013 16: 16
    I still think that the United States made a huge mistake by creating such bans.
    Now Russian business in this area will look for ways out of this situation. And this, in turn, will spur interested people to find NEW IDEAS that will already be beyond the control of the United States.
    A HOLY PLACE IS NEVER EMPTY.
    DON'T MISS THE GIRLS - THE FIGHT CONTINUES.
    1. 0
      April 2 2013 17: 28
      What you wrote is simply NOT SERIOUS. What kind of Russian business? Buy and sell will be "looking for a way out"? They made fun. What NEW ideas, when everything that is needed in this area has long been done and is, and only a complete wheel can reinvent the wheel. Further, in order to INDEPENDENTLY reach those levels that are in the world, you need to SPEND approximately the same amount of money and time as they do. Where does the money come from? Will the power give? Rave! Business? Even more delusional! Where can I get developers? People have already DECLINED to this point, a hundred are not able to do anything by themselves, and especially the young generation, brought up on the axioms "all our shit." It turns out by ourselves, IN PRINCIPLE, one cannot even undertake such tasks. The only thing is to BUY factories and specialists and learn to learn and learn again ... And buy for ANY money! Otherwise - a complete collapse and lack of prospects in this key area.
      1. lechatormosis
        0
        April 2 2013 23: 57
        the chef is all gone client takes off the cast - smile
        I have already said there are patterns in the development of the economy
        a special case cannot reflect the whole picture.
        To develop the economy, reference points and goals are needed.
        The absence of the necessary components and the inability to purchase them will stimulate the search for workarounds. I think a solution will still be found.
    2. +2
      April 2 2013 19: 25
      Absolutely agree. There will be problems with supercomputers - grid computing will develop. For every action - there is a reaction.

      It’s like gas at $ 400 forcing it to pump through F, but cheaper ...
  34. +2
    April 2 2013 16: 33
    Or maybe "there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped." I mean that it's time to develop your science, technology and production ...
  35. 0
    April 2 2013 17: 35
    Quote: aksakal
    Quote: Sergey_K
    People who do not understand obvious things always perplex me.

    - "I am always bewildered by people (here is a comma, did you learn Russian at school?)НХХ (see how to write here?) with things "- it's no wonder you are stumped, you drove yourself with your flattery in childhood. Please do not comment on my posts, I am not going to argue with you, your level is clear to me and humiliating to me.
  36. +1
    April 2 2013 20: 22
    Here learn competitors to clean !!
  37. 0
    April 2 2013 21: 59
    Something I think is a mistake, ours can learn to do it all themselves, of course, it will take a lot of time, but then as if they did not have to catch up with our technology! And then it is not very safe to use imported components for electronics, all the more so manufactured by a potential adversary!
  38. stranik72
    -1
    April 2 2013 22: 24
    If only high-tech, the place indicated to the school of general designers, the place indicated. in Russian helicopters, the general designers of Soviet sourdough were removed, made advisers at some regular trepmanagre. Aircraft construction is now overwhelmed for helicopters.
  39. 0
    April 2 2013 22: 26
    Quote: gecko
    In Russia, the 90 nmA technology has been mastered: MCST-4R (4 1 GHz cores) using this technology: Intel Pentium 4 (Prescott) - 1 core up to 3,8 GHz AMD Turion 64 X2 (mobile) - 2 cores up to 2,4 GHz

    No offense, inspired.
    zamanv | 3.11.11 | 01: 33 |
    Features
    1. 90 nm process technology
    2. Clock frequency 500 MHz
    Enough? or continue
    Intel Core i7
    Features
    1. Process 45 — 32 nm
    2. Clock frequency 2,66 — 3,46 GHz MHz
    Enough? or continue

    Skazochnik1 | 3.11.11 | 10: 58 |
    Xnumx zamanv
    measure with frequency and nanometers is how to prove that Mercedes eats faster because it has six liters under the hood. Forgetting that there are still tractors with the same six liters.
    These processors are naturally still far from the top home computers. But you apparently didn’t notice that they are intended for completely different purposes. As long as the defense is used.

    MadServer | 3.11.11 | 12: 16 |
    For shkolota and intellect-free hamsters
    Elbrus is not even RISC architecture but VLIW.
    Therefore, you need to compare not in megahertz and not in marketing pipisok, but, for example, in the number of FLOPS, IOPS.
    I dug that Elbrus-2C + on 32 discharges gives a total of 28GFlops (http://nikolino.livejournal.com/1309413.html)
    And this is the approximate performance of Intel Core 2 Quad
    So, dear hamsters, as you see, the frequency has nothing to do with it.
    For defense purposes, this processor is already more than suitable. Especially,
    And they will change the technical process and raise the frequency in a year - they will catch up and overtake i7.

    batteryxv88 | 3.11.11 | 13: 03 |
    and moreover, its dissipated power is approximately 25 watts. compared to the same quadro which 120W if not mistaken. Yes, for the military is the thing. And for the military because no one else will finance. Private are afraid to invest in it.

    Further discussion. Anyone who wants to read the link:
    http://4pda.ru/2011/11/02/49294/

    It ends like this:

    mar95 | 3.11.11 | 19: 23 |
    Dear victim of your own desire to troll! If you argue that FLOPS is an imprecise (agree) and useless measure (disagree), then here is an example for you, abstracted from the current situation, so that your brains do not float. I have a PDA with 800 MHz on the AWS architecture, but on the "X" netbook 600 MHz on x86. What do you think quickly performs operations with pl. point (and I will tell you a secret not many other different actions)? In order not to torment, I will give you a hint: x86 has FPU, but ARM does not. Now google in more detail about the discussed processor and ask about his account.

    zamanv | 3.11.11 | 23: 28 |
    But do not you go to Monsieur .... google yourself? Since it interests you so much

    It is incorrect to measure everything with the technological process and frequency.
  40. 0
    April 3 2013 00: 19
    T-platforms need to drive army tablets, laptops, stations with cool encryption systems and protection of both virtual and physical ... Computers and laptops with tablets for civilians with army chips like dust-moisture-shock, I think many citizens will take, especially in our not calm time ...
  41. 0
    April 3 2013 03: 30
    What can you say, they once again dunked us in a ram and once again indicated our place in their "tables of ranks." For them, as we were nothing, and remained nothing ... Well, in fact, from the beginning it was extremely difficult to expect from our overseas sworn "friends" that they would put us next to them on the same level ...
    Therefore, this decision of the American government is another fat plus in favor of the fact that we ourselves need to develop our own production and development of microelectronics by all possible means. I hope the GDP and Medvedev will draw the appropriate conclusions and adjust the country's development program taking into account these circumstances ...
  42. Kostya pedestrian
    0
    April 3 2013 15: 22
    It is interesting that if you use a super-computer to determine / compare the demographics and geographical location of the origin of the innovators and the place of invention of the product, this will tell you that Russia should occupy a leading place, but, unlike modern Russia, the United States offers more acceptable conditions are freedom of an acceptable choice, although in the spirit of the inventors the United States and Russia are very similar, given that, in spirit, the British component is very weak in North America. Unlike modern Russia, 8.I. Lenin led the Russians to the light, and not to the candles, i.e. forward.

    About Europe and the Japanese - I got the impression that they gained the opportunity to see in the future and steal ideas from both the USSR and the United States, but as can be seen from the experience of China and South Korea, these countries not only surpassed Japan and Europe, but and proposed development models that are much smarter than the "great imitators", and in fact, dads carlo.
  43. 0
    April 3 2013 18: 58
    It seems like Jackson-Venik amendments were canceled.
    Americans chalabol ...