Save our carcasses, they are worth billions!

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Save our carcasses, they are worth billions!

What we're going to talk about: ships. And not those rusty American ships that so outraged Uncle Donald, although they are also in business, but those that were supposed to appear to replace the old and rusty ships of the navy. fleet USA.

About the so-called Constellation class frigates, or in our language "Constellation".



The Constellation-class frigates are designed to modernize the U.S. Navy fleet, filling a gap left by the aging Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates and problems with both littoral classes. Designed for anti-air, anti-submarine, and anti-surface warfare, the frigates promise versatility but have faced significant challenges in the form of delays, cost overruns, and increased ship displacement. In addition, labor shortages and technical integration issues further complicate production.

Accordingly, the lead ship is now expected in 2029 – three years later than planned, which puts the entire frigate program at risk.

While the Navy has no plans to abandon the program, critics are skeptical whether it can deliver results or become another costly failure in U.S. naval procurement like its predecessors.


The Sozvezdie class frigate is a promising project developed to combat modern maritime threats and increase the operational flexibility of the navy. Patrol multifunctional ships capable of primarily taking on the protection of the coastal zone (note - not a small one, on two ocean coasts) and supporting combat ships of other classes throughout the waters of the World Ocean.

The idea is good, the execution…

Despite the promise of meeting the U.S. Navy's future warship needs, the project has been plagued by delays and setbacks, leaving many experts pessimistic about the ship's prospects.

The Constellation-class frigate, designated FFG-62, is a new class of frigate based on the European FREMM multi-role frigate, which is already serving in the navies of France and Italy, and serving, it must be said, successfully.


Italian FREMM class frigate

When fully loaded, the frigates' displacement is estimated to be approximately 7 tons, their length is 291 meters, and their width is 151 meters.

The ships will be powered by a combined diesel-electric and gas (CODLAG) propulsion system, providing a speed of over 26 knots and a range of 6000 nautical miles at 16 knots. Armament includes 32 Mark 41 vertical launcher (VLS) cells capable of launching a variety of missiles, including the BGM-109 Tomahawk and RIM-162 ESSM Block 2. In addition, they can carry one MH-60R Seahawk helicopter and one MQ-8C Firescout unmanned aerial vehicle.


The Sozvezdie-class frigates are designed to perform a wide range of missions, including air defense, anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, and electronic warfare. They are equipped with advanced sensors and data processing systems, such as the Aegis Baseline 10 combat system and the AN/SPY-6(V)3 Enterprise air surveillance radar.

Why does the Navy need a Sozvezdie-class frigate? Many are already pondering this question today, which should actually sound like "What holes will be plugged by new frigates?"

The future frigates are designed to meet several strategic needs. The emergence of a near-peer competitor in China has prompted the Navy to seek more capable and versatile warships. The Constellation-class frigates are designed to counter a variety of threats, including advanced submarines, surface ships, and Aviation.

Here we must understand that at present the US Navy is actually saying goodbye to four classes of ships: Ticonderoga-class cruisers, Oliver Perry frigates, Freedom and Independence littoral ships. And the duties of these four groups of ships will have to be somehow taken over by the Arleigh Burke destroyers (note – not new to the fleet) and the Constellation frigates.


Yes, we forgot about the Zumwalt-class destroyers, but the “irons” somehow never became full-fledged combat ships, so no one (including the American Navy) will cry over them too much.

And the much-hyped LCS (littoral combat ship) program was plagued by numerous problems, including cost overruns and poor performance of the completed ships, coupled with unreliability, forcing the Navy to look for a more reliable and capable platform.

The Constellation-class frigates are designed to operate in both the sea and coastal areas, providing the Navy with greater operational flexibility.


These ships can perform a variety of missions, from escorting carrier strike groups to conducting independent operations in so-called “contested waters.” Compared to larger destroyers and cruisers, the Constellation-class frigates offer a more cost-effective solution for many missions. Their smaller size and lower cost make them an attractive option for navies, allowing them to purchase more ships within budgetary constraints.

And this is not just a successful maneuver, it is a kind of “back to the future”. This is exactly how the Americans have already acted in their naval stories, when it was really necessary to plug the holes.

In 1941, when the famous events that involved the United States in World War II took place, the Navy had a choice in terms of what ships to build. And without thinking too much, American admirals chose a very peculiar method of solving the problem of a fleet that found itself involved in a war on two oceans at once.

The Americans chose the Benson-class destroyers as a mobilization option, as they could be built faster than the larger Fletchers, although the Fletchers looked much more preferable.


The Bensons have increased the number of depth charges and small-caliber ammunition artillery, reducing the number of torpedo tubes and removing one main battery gun, but all the guns were in completely closed turrets, which came in handy almost immediately: there was one war in the Pacific Ocean, with huge masses of aircraft, but in the vastness of the Atlantic there was a completely different war. In the Atlantic Ocean, airplanes were rare, but there was plenty of work on escorting merchant ships, searching for submarines and protecting combat squadrons. To solve these problems, the Fletcher was too expensive even for the richest power in the world.

Thus, 96 Benson/Gleaves-class destroyers made it possible to calmly build armadas of Fletchers, which already played their role in the defeat of Japan.

The idea with the "Constellation" is visible. While the "Arleigh Burkes" will take over the duties of the outgoing "Ticonderogas", which we have already written about, the "Constellations" will replace both frigates and coastal ships. This is clearly not an easy task.

Despite the promising potential of the new frigate, the project faced a number of problems and controversies.

One of the major problems facing the Constellation-class frigate program is the delay in design completion and construction. The Navy's decision to begin construction before the design was completed has resulted in significant delays.

The decision was more than controversial, and it has proven to be true. The lead ship, USS Constellation (FFG-62), is now expected to be delivered a full 36 months later than planned. This delay is largely due to the fact that certain components of the ship that should have been in production were not yet ready, even in the drawing boards. This led to disruptions in the construction process. The Navy's approach to starting construction with an unfinished design is not in line with best ship design practices and jeopardizes the program's schedule, but it is certainly too late to bite your elbows now.

The program has also suffered from significant cost overruns. Although, to be fair, this is not unusual for the U.S. The first ship was originally projected to cost about $1,28 billion, with subsequent ships expected to cost about $1,05 billion each. However, these estimates have proven to be overly optimistic. Actual costs have risen significantly, with some estimates suggesting the final cost of a single ship could be as high as $1,6 billion.

This 40% increase in costs has raised concerns about the viability of the program. It should be noted that the Navy plans to order 20 ships. A $0,5 billion overrun on 10 ships would be "only" $XNUMX billion.

Another major problem is the "unplanned weight gain" of the Constellation-class frigates. The ships' weight has increased by more than 10% compared to initial calculations. This weight gain is explained by design decisions and the difficulties of adapting a foreign design (or rather, a foreign-developed design) to the requirements of the US Navy.

The increased weight can limit the service life of ships and their upgrade potential, as future upgrades will require sacrificing some of the ships' equipment or performance. This was already the case during World War II, when the Defense The same American cruisers (and not only cruisers, and not only American) were parting en masse with torpedo tubes and seaplanes and the entire aviation structure.

This problem adds another layer of complexity to an already challenging design and construction process.


The main shipbuilder, Fincantieri Marinette Marine, has faced significant challenges in ramping up production capacity and hiring skilled workers. The shipyard is reportedly short of “several hundred” workers, which has led to delays in the construction schedule. The labor shortage has been exacerbated by the effects of the pandemic, which have affected the shipbuilding industry as a whole. The navy is considering various measures to address these issues, including the possibility of creating a second shipyard to speed up production. But the labor shortage is a real problem.

The Constellation-class frigate program is fraught with various technical risks, particularly those related to the integration of advanced technologies. The Navy has yet to demonstrate the full capabilities of the propulsion and control systems, which are critical components of the frigates. These technical uncertainties pose significant risks to the program, as any issues discovered during testing could lead to further delays and increased costs. The Navy is considering additional ground testing to mitigate these risks and ensure the reliability of the systems before deploying the ships.

Risk, and a huge risk. History knows many examples when almost finished ships had to be rigorously redesigned, and this did not always bring positive results.

What's next for the Constellation-class frigate?


The question is complex and has no clear answer. The proposed Constellation-class frigate program is a critical component of the U.S. Navy’s future fleet, designed to combat modern maritime threats and enhance operational flexibility. Moreover, its collapse would call into question the normal provision of U.S. maritime security as such.

However, the program has faced so many significant challenges, including design and construction delays, cost overruns, weight gain issues, shipyard and labor shortages, and technical risks, that it is difficult to predict what will happen next.

The future of these ships remains in question, with some critics arguing that the project has already been a disaster. With the first ship not due to be launched until 2029, time will tell whether the Constellation will become the new backbone of the US Navy or sink before it even arrives.

The Trump administration will decide what the “tomorrow” will be for the Sozvezdie frigates today. And we will, of course, find out what the answer will be. Donald Trump did not like America’s rusty fleet, but he likes billion-dollar spending even less.

However, if he really decided to “make America great again,” he definitely couldn’t do it without ships.
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  2. +5
    7 March 2025 04: 12
    Another major problem is the "unplanned weight increase" of the Sozvezdie-class frigates. The ships' weight has increased by more than 10% compared to initial calculations.

    It depends on what increased the mass. If structurally, then it is an increase in the ship's strength and service life, if hardware-wise, then it is not critical, the new equipment may be lighter. If aggregate-wise, then of course it will be problematic. But tell me please, why the hell does it need 16! NSM anti-ship missiles? No, these missiles are certainly lighter than the Harpoon, but still, why 16?
    The future of these ships remains in question, with some critics arguing that the project has already become a disaster.
    Frigates are needed, but they could have made them simpler, simpler, like Perry was, for example.
    1. +3
      7 March 2025 09: 00
      Quote: Puncher
      Why the hell does he need 16! NSM anti-ship missiles?

      So the Chinese shipbuilding industry is breaking records at a rapid pace...
      Quote: Puncher
      Frigates are needed, but they could have made them simpler, simpler, like Perry was, for example.

      It's hard to disagree here. A frigate should cost no more than 50% of a destroyer, and optimally 25-30%.
      You can focus on the Japanese Mogami ($370-430 million) or the Danish Absalon ($189-230)...
      1. +1
        7 March 2025 19: 19
        What the hell are the price tags, and is that with full equipment and weapons and crew? Or just for the ship without weapons?
        I don't understand naval terms and naval weapons, but the question arises. Why change 4 classes of ships at once? It's incredibly expensive and time-consuming, it takes at least 5 years to plan one ship. And according to historical experience, the more projects there are, the more expensive the subsequent ones will be. Imagine that 4 ships turn out to be weak and useless (or become obsolete under their performance characteristics). As it was with the aircraft engines of the Soviet designer Shvetsov
        1. +3
          8 March 2025 06: 22
          Quote from warlord
          and this is with full equipment and weapons and crew

          Yes, the crew at the most reasonable price laughing
          Quote from warlord
          I don't understand naval terms and naval weapons, but the question arises. Why change 4 classes of ships at once?

          The frigates are essentially replacing one class - littoral ships. The Oliver H. Perry frigates left the US Navy long ago, and to say that the Constellation is replacing them is Skomorokhov's mistake.
        2. 0
          9 March 2025 17: 05
          [quote=Warlord]Holy shit, those price tagsquote]
          What surprised you so much?
          [quote=Warlord]is this with full equipment and weapons and crew? Or just for a ship without weapons?[/quote]
          For a ship without ammunition and other consumables.
          What do you mean with the crew?
          [quote=Warlord]Why change 4 classes of ships at once? It's incredibly expensive and time-consuming, here it takes at least 5 years to plan one ship.[/quote]
          The US abandoned the frigate-class multi-purpose combat ships due to: 1. the elimination of the Soviet threat 2. the littoral ship project (which were supposed to be faster, cheaper, designed to control a less developed enemy). The littoral ship project failed (they are too expensive, have problems with engines at high speeds, have problems with the design and prohibitive cost of replaceable weapon units, and a frankly weak set of weapons against medium-level threats). They turned a blind eye to this for a while, until a new serious geopolitical enemy appeared - the Chinese Navy. Arleigh Burke-class destroyers are simply not capable of solving the entire range of US Navy tasks around the world, and they "remembered" the classic frigates again. But the "Constellation" project has a number of serious shortcomings, the main ones being: too large dimensions, prohibitive (for a mass-produced frigate) cost and low technology. This project was wrong from the very beginning (like the Zumwalt destroyer and littoral ship projects), but they won’t abandon it either, trying to fix something, wasting time and many billions of money, and the result will be the same fizzle...
    2. +5
      7 March 2025 10: 42
      Quote: Puncher
      But please tell me, why the hell does he need 16! NSM anti-ship missiles? No, these missiles are certainly lighter than the "Harpoon", but still, why 16?

      Because the concept has changed.
      Previously, everything was simple: enemy ships are taken out by carrier aviation, other USN NCs are just escort aircraft carriers. NCs will have to face a surface enemy only in low-intensity conflicts, where 8 "Harpoons" will be enough to hit enemy ships.
      But in the 10s it turned out that the USN was unable to cover all problem areas with AUGs where there was a risk of encountering enemy ships. And the Yankees began to revive the KUG. So it was necessary to increase the anti-ship capabilities of conventional NCs.
      Quote: Puncher
      Frigates are needed, but they could have made them simpler, simpler, like Perry was, for example.

      T is tradition. smile
      Let me remind you that the littoralniks were originally planned as small, cheap expendable ships.

      The Yankees have embarked on the crooked path of the USSR Navy, chasing after the "irrepressible improvement" of serial projects already mastered by the industry. We will install "Aegis", replace the UVP with Mark 41, add DD anti-ship missiles... oops - the masses, volumes and hull structures have floated. And the "improved FREMM" after all the modifications turns into a new project "Constellation", more dimensional and expensive. Just like in the Union, work on the "improved 1134B" ("we'll just install the anti-ship missile system and a new air defense system... and let's add another launcher, and a radar, and an AK-130") in the end they gave us a much more expensive and complex project 1164.
    3. 0
      8 March 2025 19: 25
      Quote: Puncher
      But please tell me, why the hell does he need 16! NSM anti-ship missiles?

      Actually, NSM can also be used along the shore. And the range is decent.
      Our guys, when upgrading 1155, don’t hesitate to install Uranium.
  3. +11
    7 March 2025 04: 13
    The Bensons were given more depth charges and small-caliber artillery,

    How much was and how much is now? Increased compared to what? Well, and small, like a louse, and artillery can be SMALL-caliber. Such a Freudian slip.
    The article is about nothing. It can easily be shortened by twenty times, leaving a short informational note.
  4. -24
    7 March 2025 04: 20
    Quote: fiberboard
    At least they have something, we are completely silent with this! And Trump, unlike our "democratic president", of course decides a lot, but not everything. And he will definitely not decide the fate of the project alone.

    I don't know how much your bosses pay you, but please ask for new manuals. I'm sick of them all.
    You'll have to contact the VO administration.
  5. 0
    7 March 2025 04: 24
    Doesn't this frigate remind us of our project 22350? And in the future it will be modernized to the size of future American frigates. We need at least a squadron (6 ships) for each fleet. What fleet will we leave to our descendants?
    1. -1
      7 March 2025 09: 45
      The problems with the frigate "Sozvezdie" are not in the design and in the lack of manpower and its qualifications.
      The problem is which of the private firms or corporations will build this frigate, who will receive the order, the funds for building the frigates and for embezzling the funds. This, gentlemen, is capitalism, and it cannot be any other way.
      The frigate "Sozvezdie" itself is basically a conservative design at the moment, there is nothing super-booper about it. Perhaps only hypersonic missiles. This is evident from the ship's performance characteristics.
      As soon as they assign money to whom, where, and how much, they will immediately start building, taking into account the struggle between the Republicans and Democrats. Some get what, some get nothing.
      1. +3
        7 March 2025 19: 27
        This world is as old as holey socks. Like when Hitler built the Atlantic Wall and spent a lot of resources and money. As a result, the allies landed troops where there was practically no defense (with all the ensuing consequences). The same thing here, the embezzlement of money is colossal. Even our bureaucrats are far from them. This will most likely be a blessing, because the Yankees are lagging behind for a long time. Will this miracle help them? Trump is unlikely to have time to build even 1 ship in a short time. We'll see, I hope they will have their own "Gorbachevs"
        1. +2
          8 March 2025 10: 52
          Quote from warlord
          As a result, the allies landed troops where there was practically no defense

          The defense was everywhere of varying strength, the weakest areas went to the British. The toughest were stormed by the Canadians and Poles. The Americans got the middle level, and this middle level of fortifications allowed Sergeant Severloch to shoot 2400+ Americans in a day. The tactics of human waves still worked, the sergeant ran out of serviceable weapons and ammunition, the coastline was surrendered. Small number of garrisons and depth of defensive lines.
    2. +1
      7 March 2025 17: 19
      Quote: V.
      We need at least a squadron (6 ships) for each fleet for all fleets.

      6 ships of rank 1-2 is a brigade. A squadron includes several brigades.
      1. 0
        8 March 2025 22: 55
        I apologize, but since when did a frigate become a 1st rank ship? I'm probably very out of date. From what I remember, we only had one 1135st rank patrol ship, if my sclerosis serves me right it was the 4M, and that was only because it was highly classified. Our brigade had 3 "poltinniks" and five minesweepers. The patrol ship was a 3rd rank ship. The division included 10 brigades, including a destroyer brigade and the cruiser Suvorov, then a flotilla and a fleet. Squadrons were formed not by the number of ships, but by functionality. The 5th operational (as far as I remember) was in the Mediterranean, our XNUMXth operational, included the Minsk. The area of ​​responsibility was the Pacific and partly the Indian. Bases in Cam Ranh and Madras.
        1. 0
          9 March 2025 14: 03
          Quote: Evgeny64
          if my sclerosis doesn't fail me

          It changes. 1135 M has always been a rank 2 ship (its displacement did not allow for a larger one) - when it was a patrol ship and when it became a large anti-submarine ship.
          The division was organized into 3rd rank ships.
          The 10th Operational Squadron was in Strelka and one of its brigade (201st) was in Vladivostok at berth 33.
          We never had bases in Madras.
          "Suvorov" was based at Sovgavan, and "Senyavin" was part of Strelka in 10 OPESK
    3. +4
      8 March 2025 06: 25
      Quote: V.
      Doesn't this frigate remind you of our Project 22350?

      With the correction of its shortcomings - yes, it reminds. 22350 - this is squeezing the unsqueezeable into a tiny case. But...
      We don't have destroyers, so 22350 has to take the rap as a universal missile and artillery surface ship. The Americans have destroyers, and it's very difficult to say why they need this overgrown frigate
      1. 0
        8 March 2025 06: 54
        Our ships as of now are potential "Varyags", I have no doubt that they will heroically enter the battle and will manage to inflict at least some damage to the enemy. Even such a flawed project 22350 in the amount of 20-30 pieces can calm the NATO Navy. Quantity levels out quality.
        Maybe I'm wrong, but where is the overgrowth in these frigates? It's the fuel. To get to the European theater of military operations and back, it has to refuel with two or even three trainloads of fuel. Essentially, it's a tanker with guns and missiles. Who's going to let it refuel at sea? hi
  6. +8
    7 March 2025 04: 35
    Compared to larger destroyers and cruisers, the Sozvezdie-class frigates offer a more cost-effective solution for many missions. Their smaller size and lower cost make them an attractive option for navies, allowing them to purchase more ships within budget constraints.

    You can't deny Americans common sense.
    This delay is largely due to the fact that individual ship components that should have been manufactured were not yet ready even in the drawings. This led to disruptions in the construction process.

    "A new word" in world shipbuilding (sarcasm). Do they really have a shortage of specialists to work in some "Cadmatic" and CAD programs? I understand that the shipyard may lack workers, qualified personnel who, as we know, "can solve everything", but in the design bureau...
    The shipyard is reportedly short of "several hundred" workers, which has caused delays in the construction schedule. The labor shortage has been exacerbated by the effects of the pandemic on the shipbuilding industry as a whole.

    But this problem is typical not only for the USA, but also, to a large extent, for us. No, everything is fine with the top managers in the management of a shipbuilding or ship repair plant - the whole package....there is trouble with 6th-category welders. And, in general, with any highly qualified workers with a confirmed category, capable of "pulling it off". A global trend, it seems....Even at Japanese ship repair plants, always famous for their high quality of repairs and production culture, this problem began to be felt: the "young generation" can hardly see itself in dirty overalls, in the roar of production, under the pressure of deadlines. However, just like with us...
    But the personnel problem is a real problem.

    That's right. Money doesn't always triumph over evil. The main capital of a wise ruler is people. Only a not very smart person can throw people away, especially in production.
    1. +2
      7 March 2025 05: 01
      Quote: Brylevsky
      Do they really have a shortage of specialists to work in some "Cadmatic" and CAD programs?

      Perhaps there was a problem with the conversion of SI to inches. This always leads to an increase in the mass of the product because you can't make it smaller, and there is no tooling for the original size.
      Quote: Brylevsky
      "Young generation" can hardly see themselves in dirty robes

      That's true. TFT is not popular with so many alternatives.
      Quote: Brylevsky
      The main capital of a wise ruler is people.

      You can't force people to work in hazardous production now. Only robotization.
      1. +3
        7 March 2025 14: 47
        TFT is not popular with many alternatives available.

        Welding is not TFT.
        TFT - “take more, throw away.”
    2. +3
      7 March 2025 10: 46
      Quote: Brylevsky
      "A new word" in world shipbuilding (sarcasm). Do they really have a shortage of specialists to work in some "Cadmatic" and CAD programs?

      It seems they have a shortage of specialists who can fit new American systems into a ready-made European case, designed for European components, with minimal design changes - and so that it all doesn't break down on the first wave and drown itself out.
      They took a Fiat or a Renault and are trying to cram Chrysler stuff into it. smile
    3. +2
      7 March 2025 13: 54
      Probably because it's the ХЫХЫИ century, and universal robotization and automation have remained in the sphere of management, and workers are still adjusting the size with a sledgehammer. Everyone thought that meat sacks were cheaper than robots, but now there is no one to work.
      1. +4
        7 March 2025 14: 19
        Everyone thought that meat sacks were cheaper than robots, but now there is no one to work.

        It's just that a 6th-category welder can climb with an electrode on a ship or vessel under construction where an industrial robot can't climb. And make a high-quality weld.
        I have had to do repairs in China many times and I was always amazed at the goggles their welders manage to get into on a ship... The volume of free space there is often such that it is impossible to be there even on all fours, and you still have to manage to weld well. At the end of the day, the Chinese look like a black man... And I have only seen robots on the ropes at plasma cutting machines, where the skin sheets of the required configuration were cut out.
      2. +1
        8 March 2025 08: 16
        There are more people on the planet, but the workforce is growing! Technologies have opened up other opportunities for earning money, and people are now trying to earn money in other areas of activity, for example, in the service sector: being a courier is much easier than being a welder, and the salary is almost the same. Therefore, there is a shortage of skilled labor everywhere, the world is changing, and it is not yet clear in what form everything will settle down.
    4. 0
      7 March 2025 19: 34
      The essence of capitalism is that the capitalist doesn't care who you are in religion, political views. As long as you bring in profit, it doesn't concern him. He can easily fire and hire a Mexican and pay a hundred less than a white skilled worker. Considering the current situation, I think that in the future the quality of the fleet will noticeably decline, as well as the ground forces. This is already a sure failure, the one with more skilled workers will win. China is already hot on his heels, another 10 years will pass and the USA will become a third-rate power.
  7. +1
    7 March 2025 04: 52
    I wonder if the author will call Chinese ships, for example the Type 055 destroyers, Type 055 class destroyers?
  8. -12
    7 March 2025 05: 58
    Quote: Grossvater
    Quote: fiberboard
    At least they have something, we are completely silent with this! And Trump, unlike our "democratic president", of course decides a lot, but not everything. And he will definitely not decide the fate of the project alone.

    I don't know how much your bosses pay you, but please ask for new manuals. I'm sick of them all.
    You'll have to contact the VO administration.

    Wow, they downvoted me! Just look at how many raguli are grazing on VO...
    1. +9
      7 March 2025 07: 05
      It's just that in Rus', since time immemorial, informers have not been very welcome...
      1. Des
        -1
        7 March 2025 08: 35
        Nobody likes snitches.
        It is a fact.
        Here the guy directly stated his opinion and action.
        Open and normal.
        Another thing is if we associate it (by camp standards) as cooperation with the camp adm. But here - in VO - it is not so? Or so?
        "You're funny" (a humorous joke).
        Health and good luck.
      2. +7
        7 March 2025 10: 50
        Quote: paul3390
        It's just that in Rus', since time immemorial, informers have not been very welcome...

        Yeah... they don't like to snitch, but they demand that the state see everything and take action.
        Drunks are rioting in the yard? Where is the police, why aren't they doing anything? Has anyone reported this to the police? No, come on, we're not like that, we're not informers.
        It’s also strange that these people, when they visit doctors, complain about their bodies - where it hurts, where it pulls. laughing
        1. +1
          7 March 2025 19: 44
          Well, in 1937-1938, most of the population snitched. As sad as it sounds, most of those arrested were arrested on false denunciation.
          In Spain in the 15th-16th centuries, informers were even paid if the information was confirmed. And the Church paid the Inquisition, and quite generously. And if you refused to inform, you could be considered a Jew or an accomplice of the devil. Whether you wanted to or not, people had to inform. It has always been and will be, no matter how much informers were not loved)
          1. +2
            7 March 2025 19: 54
            Quote from warlord
            Well, in 1937-1938, most of the population snitched. As sad as it sounds, most of those arrested were arrested on false denunciation.

            We endlessly curse Comrade Stalin, and, of course, for the cause. And still I want to ask - who wrote four million denunciations?
            © Sergey Dovlatov
            Here, for example, is how a designer in those days accelerated the work of a plant to produce his tank:
            ..the production was delayed because of: the saboteur Firsov, former head of the design bureau at the KhPZ plant, where it was transferred by the saboteur Neiman, former head of Spetsmashtrest; at plant No. 48 (Kharkov), where the technical director was the saboteur-fascist Simsky, who dragged the fascist Gakkel to plant No. 48 and put him in charge of BT-IS production. ...Farmanyants - Deputy head of the 8th Main Directorate of the People's Commissariat of Industrial Production tried to disrupt the release of the BT-IS. ...Your intervention is necessary
            © from a letter by military technician 2nd rank N.F. Tsyganov "To the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) to Comrade Stalin and Comrade Voroshilov."
            1. 0
              7 March 2025 19: 59
              Well, I, a Stalinist, of course, do not justify such an approach. However, without such measures, we would now be freezing in the barracks of Auschwitz. And only one fate awaited us, to be slaves or Ost-Arbeiters, as it is fashionable to say about migrants.
              We need to do a general cleaning again and return to the 1936 constitution. It is the only one I recognize!
        2. 0
          8 March 2025 12: 05
          "Has anyone reported it to the police?" - and not just once. And not only about alcoholics. The result is zero. They will come only when Bastrykin takes personal control. And even then they will do nothing. But if you come out with some paper, then even without reports, a whole division will rush. laughing
    2. +3
      7 March 2025 13: 26
      No, people just don't really like it when THEIR opinion is presented as "Treasonous" or "Bought".
  9. -5
    7 March 2025 06: 02
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    I wonder if the author will call Chinese ships, for example the Type 055 destroyers, Type 055 class destroyers?

    This is one example of not knowing Russian and not understanding that the same word in different languages ​​can mean different things. The reason, as always, is the same: the author is a writer, in the sense of not a reader. If he had read anything, he would know that in the English tradition, the word class means type.
    I have long proposed renaming the All-Russian Union to the "Writers' Union".
  10. -2
    7 March 2025 07: 00
    Surface ships are a dead end, with the creation of UAVs of all kinds, only diving ships will be able to survive in this world wassat
  11. +4
    7 March 2025 07: 48
    Probably, as in any capitalist society, greed (profit) is above all else.
    Budget embezzlement for military orders is a harsh reality today.
    Anyone who served in today's Russian army, for example, knows.
    Capitalism is the same everywhere.
  12. -6
    7 March 2025 07: 49
    Quote: paul3390
    It's just that in Rus', since time immemorial, informers have not been very welcome...

    Is it possible to work for the enemy? They just adore such people in Rus'!
    A couple of years ago, on Radio Zvezda, in a program devoted to national security, those same notorious manuals were quoted. Here, word for word, is what all sorts of raguli write on VO. They still haven't come up with anything new.
    If you personally like it when Russia is slandered, then I don’t.
    However, work is work. I understand everything. You have to earn your food. Good luck!
    1. +2
      7 March 2025 13: 39
      Is it possible to work for the enemy?

      It is possible, because that is what you do!
      After all, justifying problems leads to them not being solved and they piling up.
      And people like you justify everything.
      The Tsar is good - the Boyars are bad. And the fact that the boyars are appointed by the Tsar and work with his permission, well, you are not a patriot if you think so!
      If you personally like it when Russia is slandered, then I don’t.

      I'll probably let you in on a secret, but 95 percent of Russians don't like it when their country is slandered. That's why they try to make it as good as possible, and they do it to the best of their ability, which means they turn to the government, where they'll be ignored as usual.
      1. 0
        8 March 2025 12: 59
        Quote: Ermak_415
        It is possible, because that is what you do!
        After all, justifying problems leads to them not being solved and they piling up.
        And people like you justify everything.
        The Tsar is good - the Boyars are bad. And the fact that the boyars are appointed by the Tsar and work with his permission, well, you are not a patriot if you think so!

        That's exactly what the USSR did with its "approval" - it postponed solving problems and those who came up with them were hit in the head. That's how it ended...
  13. 0
    7 March 2025 07: 51
    Quote: air wolf
    Surface ships are a dead end, with the creation of UAVs of all kinds, only diving ships will be able to survive in this world wassat

    All that remains is to invent a combat-ready UAV with a flight range of at least five thousand miles.
  14. +6
    7 March 2025 08: 49
    What's going on with the Americans and how "bad" everything is for them is of course very interesting, but what's going on with our frigates, they're probably baking like pies, just trying to get them off the slipways?
    1. -1
      7 March 2025 09: 11
      Quote from AdAstra
      but what's going on with our frigates, they're probably baking like pies, just trying to get them off the slipways?

      This is unlikely, especially at this time. There have never been cases where a country had equally powerful ground forces and a combat navy in the world. Either one or the other... Maybe the USSR was getting close to this in the 80s (having unrivaled ground forces and building a massive and modern navy), but history quickly turned aside and an exception to the rule did not happen... Neither Britain once nor the United States now, against the backdrop of powerful navies, have been able to have strong ground forces. Will China succeed? Let's see...
      1. -1
        8 March 2025 13: 06
        Quote: Doccor18
        Maybe the USSR was getting close to this in the 80s (having unrivaled SV

        Having soldiers painting curbs and leveling snowdrifts with a thread - instead combat training? Outfits for the farm yard and boiler room - instead of combat shooting?
        We had a big one crowd ground forces - of which the combat-ready ones may have been in the GSVG, no more....
        1. -1
          9 March 2025 16: 44
          Quote: your1970
          We had a large crowd of ground troops.

          We had the STRONGEST GROUND FORCES IN THE WORLD!
          And you can write whatever you want, but it won't change the facts. And the facts speak for themselves: in the 80s, the US alone had a contingent of over 330 people in Europe, and the FRG army alone had almost 500 people. It's strange that all this is against the "crowd painting snowdrifts"...
          1. 0
            9 March 2025 22: 23
            Quote: Doccor18
            We had the STRONGEST GROUND FORCES IN THE WORLD!

            As soon as NATO troops saw how we we crawl(we're really crawling on our bellies!!) belay step belay to the accompaniment of a marching song - they would have doubled their numbers out of fear...
            1988, sergeant training, artillery reconnaissance, sound meter, AZK-5 complex.
            In six months, the complex was deployed 5 times and even launched once.
            4 rounds of machine gun fire, 5 guards.
            That's all that had any relation to the army. The entire army experience fits into 10 days.

            Everything else is: "The main task of the army is to beat a soldier to the point of unconsciousness, so that he doesn't get drunk!!!"
            Scrubbing trash cans, crawling in formation, the boiler room, the utility yard, the canteen, running in the OZK with the battery complex as a burden, building whatever, chopping wood for officers' titans...
            The SNAR battery went out twice in six months, the opticians never sent out their equipment.
            1400 cadets - not trained in anything for six months. What we learned - we learned in 10 days.
            And so it is everywhere - well, maybe except for the GSVG, the Strategic Missile Forces, the Air Force and other small troops
            And so it was everywhere in the ground forces - one blatant IBD by leveling foot towels and stripes on blankets.
            And it would be fine if this was done for discipline - it would be understandable, but it was done exclusively for the peace of mind of the officer corps.

            And God forbid that something happened - we would be meat, incapable not only of deploying the complex, detecting the enemy and covering him, but also of fighting him off to a minimum. The artillery reconnaissance regiment was completely unprepared for combat.
            And so it was everywhere in the Volga, Moscow, Central Asian and Turkestan districts.
            Repeat
            Quote: your1970
            We had a big one crowd ground forces
  15. +5
    7 March 2025 09: 15
    The Constellation-class frigate program initially looked like a failure. Trying to get a cheap frigate that would take the place of the successful Oliver Perry, and that would complement the expensive, but very functional Arleigh Burke, the Americans initially made a clear mistake - they chose an expensive FREMM-class frigate as a basis, and in the process of adapting it to their needs, they tripled its price - the frigate began to cost half the price of the Arleigh Burke. Moreover, in the process of building the frigate, its price increased even more and approached the price of the Arleigh Burke, although in terms of capabilities these ships are not even close. When they built the Arleigh Burke in addition to the Ticanderoga, the main criterion was "Two-thirds of the capabilities for half the cost" in relation to the Ticanderoga, and a successful ship was obtained. And the new frigate, it seems, was made according to the principle "Why pay less".
    What they made out of the Constellation is a terribly expensive frigate with minimal capabilities. You can't use it for landing operations - instead of a normal 127 mm gun, it has a 57 mm pop gun, although it would have been easier to install a 127 mm + 35-40 mm bundle with a programmable detonation, which would have made the frigate universal. And now, during landing operations, you will have to send even more expensive Arleigh Burkes to the shore. You can't really use it for escort - they "forgot" to install anti-submarine torpedoes (yes, the frigate is not equipped with anti-submarine weapons, only a helicopter). But they installed expensive radars and combat information systems, despite the fact that there is nothing to implement their capabilities - there are only 32 slots for missiles.
    Moreover, it was entirely possible to repeat the proven success of the Oliver Perry frigates. To do this, it was necessary to take as a basis not the initially expensive FREMM, but one of the ready-made proven versions of cheap frigates - the Danish Iver Huitfeld, or some version of the French Lafayette, for example, Formidable, modify them for a second helicopter, install a small anti-aircraft missile with a programmable detonation in the spirit of the times of combating UAVs - and the result would be a ship that would perfectly complement the Arleigh Burke, and three to four times cheaper than expensive destroyers.
    But the American navy has developed a habit of spending money without counting since the days of the Oliver Perry frigates. The new frigate is exactly in that style.
    1. +3
      7 March 2025 11: 12
      Quote from solar
      Moreover, it was entirely possible to repeat the proven success of Oliver Perry's frigates.

      So the Yankees didn't want OHP from the start.
      They wanted a squadron ASW frigate capable of operating as part of an AUG (i.e., with the Aegis). But also anti-ship, and over-the-horizon. In short, a cross between a bulldog and a rhinoceros - a "mini-Burke" with the capabilities of the Zumwalt. But at the same time, mass-produced and based on an existing project.
      In short, when choosing between "fast, cheap and high quality" they chose all three at once. laughing
      And then they made it worse by starting to modify FREMM for their hardware and electronics, and by stuffing DD anti-ship missiles into its body. The pike couldn't stand such stuffing - and now they have to take a shark for the fish-fish. smile
      1. +1
        7 March 2025 11: 41
        They wanted an ASW frigate capable of operating as part of a strike group (i.e. with the Aegis).

        The basic question of what to do with Aegis and 32 cells somehow didn’t occur to them, it seems.
        I didn't mean the "exact same" OHP, but rather as a fundamental concept of a mass-produced cheap frigate in addition to expensive functional destroyers. Of course, it makes sense to build a universal frigate now, there aren't that many ships in the fleet. But what they've come up with is a sight to behold. "Not a candle for God, not a poker for the devil." It's three-quarters of Arleigh Burke in price, and one-fifth in capabilities.
        1. +2
          7 March 2025 15: 15
          Quote from solar
          I didn't mean exactly the same thing, but only as a fundamental concept of a mass-produced cheap frigate in addition to expensive functional destroyers.

          That's how I write about the OFP as a concept: a cheap mass-produced frigate, whose main task is anti-submarine warfare on the borders and routes of the CON (primarily in the Atlantic, but now the TO has also caught up), and which, if necessary, can be used to escort the AUG, but it was not created specifically for this.
          And the Yankees with "Constellation" immediately began to dance from the possibility of constant joint work with the AUG - and this pulled everything else along with it.
          Quote from solar
          Of course, it makes sense to build a universal frigate now, there are not so many ships in the fleet now.

          * looks thoughtfully at the LCS program. smile

          The problem is that universal ships are expensive. And within the existing budget, it is impossible to build as many of them as needed to plug all the holes. Will 20 FFG(X) be able to spread out all over the globe, performing the tasks of fifty OHPs?
          For example, the Yankees, without the OCP, have a hole in the North Atlantic, which can be plugged either with NATO allies’ ships (which have their own problems) or with their own squadron ships (which are needed for the AUG and, in general, for dominance at sea).
          1. +1
            7 March 2025 21: 21
            The problem is that universal ships are expensive.

            A fully-fledged, universal Danish frigate of the Iver Huitfeld type, displacement 6650 tons (exactly the same as Constellation).
            It is only necessary to replace one gun from 76 mm to 127 mm, the second - with a SiRAM launcher, for example, or 35 mm MZA (and such a possibility is provided in it). And the weapons will be for all occasions - whether it is support for landing, air defense, or combating UAVs, or anti-submarine warfare, or combating surface ships, or patrol service (an additional 64 people can be placed - marines for inspection, aviation service, doctors, etc.).
            Artillery 2 × 76 mm OTO Breda
            Anti-aircraft artillery 35-mm "Oerlikon Millennium"
            Missile armament of the UVP Mk41:
            32 SM-2 IIIA
            UVP Mk56:
            24 ESSM
            8-16 Harpoon anti-ship missiles
            Mine and torpedo armament 2 × 2 TU MU90
            Aviation group 1 helicopter EH-101

            In the future, it is planned to equip them with Tomahawks.
            Electronic weapons
            The electronic equipment installed on the frigate includes[5]:

            SMART-L long-range radar (range 400 km[7]);
            Multifunctional radar APAR, which tracks targets and guides anti-aircraft missiles;
            Furuno navigation radar;
            In-hull hydroacoustic station Atlas ASO 94;
            Seastar Seafire III Infrared Viewer;

            And all the fun cost 210 million euros. Nine to ten times cheaper than Arleigh Burke. And 6 to 7 times cheaper than Constellation.
            Speed ​​and range of the Iver Huitfeld
            Speed ​​26 knots max.
            Cruising range 9000 miles (15 knots)
            28 days autonomy
            100 crew

            At the Constellation
            Speed ​​26 knot
            Cruising range 6000 miles (16 knots)
            140 crew

            Conclusion - with the same displacement, the Iver Huitfeld has much better armament, a greater cruising range, a smaller crew and is 6-7 times cheaper than the Constellation. But the American Navy, it seems, does not want to pay less.
        2. 0
          7 March 2025 15: 34
          Good afternoon.
          This is all clear. But, here is a big But. With the development of both air and water UAVs, isn't this a nail in the coffin of cheap, but weak and blind ships? What is the point of it, if it can't even defend itself, let alone the water area? We have a cheap "Buyan", but what is the point of its Calibers, if it is not a player in either air defense or anti-submarine warfare?
          So, what to do? I am not an expert in this, but I remember the fate of "Moscow". I would like to read Andrey from Chelyabinsk's opinion on this issue, but he is silent.
          1. +1
            7 March 2025 21: 25
            With the development of both aerial and aquatic UAVs, isn't this the nail in the coffin of cheap, but weak and blind ships?

            I described the Danish cheap frigate Iver Huitfeld above. It is perfectly prepared to meet UAVs and water drones, especially with the simple minimal modifications provided for in the project. It is not blind and not a weak ship at all.
  16. +2
    7 March 2025 11: 19
    Quote: Brylevsky
    I understand that the shipyard may not have enough workers, qualified personnel who, as we know, "can solve everything", but in the design bureau...

    Both the performance characteristics and the efficiency and the price and quality, as they will really be, are determined by the level of work of designers and technologists - everything is laid down at the design stage. For the required result, established teams with design and technological "schools" are necessary. And these are years and years of hard work.
    If we work according to the principle of "now we'll whistle, the performers will come running, we'll give them money and they'll do everything", we'll get another "zamvolt" - the money is gone, the head is in pain...
    There is no need for overseas examples here - there is nowhere to put our own.
  17. 0
    7 March 2025 11: 57
    The Constellation class frigates are designed to operate both in the waters and on the coast,

    Will they be able to get on land?! Will they have wheels or tracks on the bottom?
  18. +1
    7 March 2025 12: 33
    Well, it seems that America is also affected by the shortage of qualified personnel. And how do we solve this problem? It seems to me sluggishly and reluctantly. Here's an example: after finishing the 9th grade, my son was choosing a profession for himself. I told him this: in our country, particularly in Moscow, there are a lot of managers, lawyers, economists and other office workers, but there is no one to do manual work! So he went to college from Rostec to study to be a general welder. Now he is finishing his studies, but what's the trick? - the stipend in this office was 612 rubles, now they have increased it to a hundred, but is this money that a student can somehow get by on? It is not even enough for a travel pass, and when the internship began they said this: you can work, but we cannot pay you any salary according to the law. That's a trick - it means that if you are a minor, you can work, but you will not get a salary! Well, who will run to enroll in the working class after this? This is where the shortage of labor specialists begins. Everything starts small.
    1. 0
      7 March 2025 14: 30
      . study to become a general-purpose welder.

      A good profession, will always be busy. But very harmful to health... Let him gain experience as quickly as possible to obtain NAKS certification and "crusts" of the Russian Marine Registrar - such a specialist will be priceless.
      Or you can go another way, faster and more profitable: make maritime documents and as soon as possible go to work "under the flag", in some foreign shipping company. Good welders on a ship are always in demand and earn... thousands of dollars. So, your son's prospects are very good. He just needs to realize himself correctly.
  19. -1
    7 March 2025 13: 03
    They have no sanctions, they have not received a ban on engine supplies, there is plenty of money, but the ships are still being built with difficulty. We have all this, up to our necks, less money, but we still build. 22350 and 20385 are worthy projects.
    1. +1
      7 March 2025 14: 36
      . but we still build.

      They build too. If they have a problem here, it doesn't mean it's the same everywhere.
  20. 0
    7 March 2025 15: 30
    And the much-publicized LCS (littoral combat ship) program has been plagued by numerous problems, including cost overruns and completely unsatisfactory performance of the completed ships, coupled with unreliability.

    In pin dos sie, is it cheaper to design new ships and their contents than to debug the reliability of existing ones? belay
    Although yes, what am I talking about, you can “master” much less during debugging than in the production of something completely new. lol
    And what about feeding your family? wassat
  21. 0
    7 March 2025 22: 11
    Of all the artillery, only one 57mm gun? Somehow it's too weak for "close range".