Does Poseidon have a chance?

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Does Poseidon have a chance?
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One of the most controversial and criticized examples of Russian strategic weapons was the 2M39 complex, also known as the autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle (AUV) Poseidon, also known as Status-6, first mentioned by Russian President Vladimir Putin in his address to the Federal Assembly back in 2018, although the first footage from the presentation of the said weapons “accidentally” appeared on television back in 2015 at a meeting between Vladimir Putin and the Russian Ministry of Defense.



The Poseidon AUV concept is believed to be based on the T-15 project, a giant Soviet super-torpedo designed to strike the US coast, developed between 1949 and 1955. The idea was later revisited in 1961, when Academician Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov proposed using a super-torpedo with a ramjet water-steam nuclear jet engine and a super-powerful nuclear warhead (NW) to strike US coastal cities by creating an artificial tsunami.


There is still no reliable information about the characteristics of the Poseidon AUV; various sources state that the length is about 16-24 meters, with a diameter of 1,5-2 meters and a mass of about 100 tons. The estimated speed of the Poseidon supertorpedo, according to various sources, is from 100 to 200 kilometers per hour, with a maximum diving depth of up to a kilometer.

Initially, it was said about some super-powerful nuclear warhead with a TNT equivalent of almost 100 megatons. Most likely, this information appeared as a result of the ideas of Academician Sakharov about using nuclear warheads of the specified power to cause a tsunami on the US coast. Later, in various sources, the supposed power of the nuclear warhead of the Poseidon supertorpedo varied in the range from 2 to 20 megatons.

The engine for the Poseidon AUV is supposed to be a compact short-lived (with a limited resource) nuclear reactor with a liquid metal coolant, which provides the supertorpedo with a virtually unlimited power reserve. Such developments were quite successfully carried out in the USSR since the time of the nuclear submarines of the 705(K) Lira project, which were ahead of their time by many decades, or even earlier.


Unique nuclear submarine of project 705(K) "Lira"

Criticism


Critics of the Poseidon project cite several arguments against the complex.

First of all, the Poseidon AUV project is ineffective in terms of cost-effectiveness. Presumably, the funds that were and will be spent on implementing this project could have been used to purchase an additional number of intercontinental ballistic missiles. missiles (ICBMs) placed in highly protected silo launchers (SLBMs) ​​and/or strategic missile submarines (SSBNs) with submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs).


The supposed advantage of the Poseidon supertorpedo in terms of its invulnerability to the American anti-ballistic missile defense system (ABM) is compensated by its vulnerability to conventional enemy anti-submarine weapons. At the same time, the operability of the American ABM system against modern Russian ICBMs and SLBMs has not yet been confirmed, while underwater targets such as the Poseidon AUV can presumably be attacked by the enemy along the entire route, including using nuclear warheads.

Special submarines of projects 09853 and 09851 should be used as carriers of the Poseidon AUV, which, given the Navy’s shortage of fleet (Russian Navy) "conventional" multi-purpose nuclear submarines (MSSNs) looks like a waste.


In addition, the Poseidon UAV carriers are subject to the same threats as the Russian SSBNs - when at the pier, they are extremely vulnerable to a sudden disarming strike by the enemy, both with nuclear and conventional weapons. Moreover, given the experience of conducting a special military operation (SMO) in Ukraine, sabotage actions in peacetime cannot be ruled out, carried out, for example, with the help of kamikaze unmanned boats (UBK).

If the Poseidon UAV carriers are on combat duty, then the Navy must ensure their deployment and cover, similar to what is done with SSBNs, which again brings us back to the shortage of SSNs, as well as other anti-submarine units – patrol ships and aircraft.

The situation could be partly corrected equipping Poseidon AUV carriers with active anti-torpedo defense systems, but so far there is no information about the adoption of such products into service.

However, it appears that the Poseidon project is currently continuing to be implemented, perhaps with some slowdown due to the enormous costs of conducting the special military operation (SMO) in Ukraine.

Is it possible to somehow mitigate the shortcomings of the Poseidon complex and increase its effectiveness?

Let's try to figure it out.

Deployment


First of all, the question arises about the need for carriers for the Poseidon supertorpedo. Indeed, if this weapon has a virtually unlimited power reserve, then why transport it somewhere on a large, expensive and obviously more vulnerable carrier?

In the material “Dungeons of the submarine fleet”, published on June 27, 2022 on the resource "Army Standard", it was said that back in November 2019, the media first reported on plans to build underground armored shelters equipped with water, electricity and steam supply systems for nuclear submarines of Projects 955 Borey and 885 Yasen, as well as for non-nuclear submarines of Projects 636 Varshavyanka and 677 Lada.

Each such shelter is a pier that protects not only from conventional bombs and missiles, but also from a nuclear strike.


Scheme of the underground base in Ara-Guba

The construction of shelters was supposed to begin in 2019 at the Pacific Fleet base in Vilyuchinsk on Kamchatka, and continue in 2020 at the Northern Fleet's ship deployment sites in the Severomorsk area. The author has no information on whether the work has been completed, to what extent, whether it is currently being carried out or is planned to be carried out in the future.

Of course, the construction of such shelters could become a major indicator of the strengthening of the Russian Navy – a way to preserve at least submarines in the event of massive attacks by the enemy with non-nuclear high-precision weapons, not to mention the fact that such shelters would completely solve the problem with the kamikaze submarines.


Scheme of the underground base in Pavlovsk, Primorsky Krai

The Poseidon AUV does not require such huge underground shelters as the SSBNs and SSNs, meaning their construction will be significantly simpler and cheaper.

Such shelters can be built in rocky soils both in the north and in the east of our country. It is possible that the construction of such shelters along the entire Northern Sea Route (NSR) with supertorpedoes going directly under the ice can be considered.

What might the deployment of the Poseidon UAV from rock shelters look like?

Thus, the Poseidon AUVs are stored in rock shelters in transport and launch containers (TLC), where routine maintenance and technical service are carried out in complete safety and relatively comfortable conditions.

The exit from the rock shelter can be carried out by self-propelled means into open water, or, alternatively, the TPK can be equipped with an underwater propulsion system with a limited range and control via fiber optic cable.


In case of receiving information about a possible enemy surprise attack, they can move out in a TPK to some distance from the base point, disperse over a distance of about 20-30 kilometers and lie down on the ground. It will be extremely difficult to ensure the destruction of all supertorpedoes lying on the bottom in a TPK even if the enemy uses nuclear weapons.

If the strike is not confirmed, the containers with the "parcels" return to the base. If the enemy attack is confirmed and the "judgment day" has arrived, the containers float up from the ground and release the Poseidon supertorpedoes, which are sent to the targets programmed into their memory.

Of course, there is a risk of the fiber optic control cable being broken, but in this case, several backup mechanisms for sending commands can be provided, for example, a small pop-up antenna and/or acoustic communication stations located on the bottom.

Or, more simply, the Poseidons don’t go out anywhere in advance and simply wait out the first blow in rocky shelters.

Application


The main targets for the Poseidon supertorpedoes are declared to be enemy naval bases and other military facilities located on the coast. In addition to them, other objects for attack can be considered, such as canals.

Take the Panama Canal, for example: by detonating a powerful nuclear warhead from a Poseidon supertorpedo at a certain point, it is possible to shift the ground in such a way that the canal will be blocked for years, or even decades, which will deprive the enemy of the ability to quickly transfer ships from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean.


Poseidon could very well turn the Panama Canal into a dam

Given the global nature of the conflicts in which the Poseidon UAV is expected to be used, it can be assumed that civilian ports will be legitimate and important targets – during a “big war” they will be requisitioned and used for military purposes anyway, so there is simply no point in waiting for the enemy to do this.

Is it possible to somehow increase the survivability of the Poseidon UAV on the route?

Yes, for example, by optimizing the route trajectory, when part of it will pass under the ice of the North Pole, although, most likely, this has already been done.

In general, conditionally unlimited autonomy potentially allows for the construction of the most intricate routes, even through the waters of Antarctica, and the low speed of the Poseidon UAV (compared to ICBMs and SLBMs) ​​will allow for a strike on the enemy when he thinks that everything is already over.

It is also worth remembering that the Poseidon AUV will be used during a global nuclear conflict, when a large number of nuclear charges used by opponents against each other will cause severe interference in the airwaves, disrupting the operation of communications equipment, including the transmission of signals from hydroacoustic buoys and unmanned anti-submarine ships, which are now only beginning to develop as a new type of weapon.

If the Poseidon UAV is equipped with the capability of emergency detonation of the warhead in the event of an enemy attack, then it will be possible to ensure a high probability of destroying the enemy ships and submarines attacking it, that is, the commander of the warship and his crew will have to know that they are going to their death, of course, if they are in the kill zone of the Poseidon UAV.

Conclusions


The supertorpedo or AUV "Poseidon" is a very controversial weapon. The measures proposed in this material are only a consequence of the fact that for some reason this complex continues to live and develop, at least according to open data.


The author's opinion on the problem of strategic nuclear deterrence is unchanged: the most effective and resistant to a sudden disarming strike by the enemy type of strategic weapons are ICBMs in highly protected silo launchers.

Moreover, these should be light-class ICBMs with one or two nuclear warheads, but there should be a lot of them – we previously talked about this in the article Nuclear math: how many nuclear charges does the US need to destroy Russian strategic nuclear forces?.

But since the Status-6 project continues to develop, it is at least possible to try to increase the survivability of the Poseidons before delivering a sudden disarming strike by placing them in rocky coastal shelters, and at the same time save production capacity for the construction of the SSNs that the Russian Navy so desperately needs.

Although, who knows, perhaps the decision makers have some classified information that could fundamentally change our attitude towards the Poseidon UAV?

Maybe the rumors are true, and nuclear warheads with a capacity of one hundred megatons will really wash enemy coastal cities into the ocean?

I would like to hope that in practice we will not have to find out about this.
237 comments
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  1. + 12
    21 February 2025 02: 50
    I would like to hope that in practice we will not have to find out about this.

    These are the key words. And so, it's like with a condom, let it be and not be needed, than when you urgently need it, and there is none.
    1. + 16
      21 February 2025 03: 11
      Does Poseidon have a chance?
      1. +4
        21 February 2025 09: 30
        there were rumors that the Belgorod submarine had already entered the database twice without a main BC of 2 units.
        It is not known exactly how many Poseidon UAVs have already been scattered
        even if not 12 but at least 6 AUVs are lying in the ground, for example:
        England: in the Firth of Clyde and the Thames
        France: Cherbourg, Ile Longue, Seine
        this is already a good support shoulder for the Strategic Missile Forces because
        it will be possible to destroy the strategic nuclear forces and the leadership of England and France without missile launches and their detection by the early warning system
        1. + 14
          21 February 2025 10: 43
          a nuclear explosion at depth and an underwater earthquake are essentially completely different physical phenomena ... an earthquake causes the seabed to move over tens and even hundreds of kilometers and, as a result, a wave appears in the water column which, when approaching a continent or island, increases its height many times over - it is called a tsunami ... a nuclear explosion in the water column will cause an air bubble to appear there which will rush upward and quickly collapse ... to obtain the tsunami effect, it will be necessary to detonate tens and maybe even hundreds of nuclear devices with a capacity of 20 Mt each ... this is unrealistic and pointless ....
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 14: 12
            Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
            A nuclear explosion at depth and an underwater earthquake are essentially completely different physical phenomena...

            However, they are also interconnected if the explosion occurs in an area of ​​tectonic stress or at plate junctions.
            1. +8
              21 February 2025 17: 58
              If there is enough nuclear charge for these joints and stresses for something serious to happen, then it would have already happened without any nuclear explosions, which means millions/billions of tons of rock are literally hanging by a thread.
              It's like they like to say that if you drop a bomb on a supervolcano, an eruption will occur, without mentioning that there are millions of tons of rock on top and hundreds of bombs will need to be dropped, and even then it's not a fact that anything will happen.
            2. -4
              21 February 2025 19: 14
              And all these tales about the Vanguards, the Hazelnuts, the Poseidons, the Burevestniks, the Armatas, the Zircons are used to fool the masses, who must believe in the most powerful and wise politician and statesman with Co., and so that they all together remain in power as long as possible... Isn't this clear?
              1. +5
                21 February 2025 20: 14
                You are writing this after using "Oreshnik". Have you been to a psychiatrist recently?
                1. -6
                  21 February 2025 20: 18
                  And if you follow the topic for some time, it becomes clear - everything our VVP talks about is just fairy tales for the naive.... When I was little, I also believed that the older sister was the most beautiful, the older brother was the bravest, dad was the smartest... But as I understand it, no matter what TV tells us, you take everything on faith...
                  1. +2
                    22 February 2025 01: 42
                    Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                    everything our GDP talks about is just fairy tales for the naive....


                    Yes, and the bridge to Crimea is a cartoon, because, as everyone knows, it is impossible to build. And the Earth, as everyone knows, is flat.
                    The existence of some objects, even if you don’t believe in them, is an objective reality.
                    Well, what do you believe in or not? No one forbids you to practice your own religion.
                    After all, even schizophrenics believe that someone is constantly watching them.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. +3
                        22 February 2025 20: 09
                        Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                        I'm sorry... nothing but the truth...


                        And why do you think that only you have access to understanding the world and realizing the truth? Have you ever questioned your own point of view?
                        When everyone around you seems like a fool, maybe it's you who doesn't understand something in this place or this situation?
                      2. +2
                        22 February 2025 21: 53
                        Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                        Fools are the second oil for the inhabitants of the Kremlin... sorry... nothing but the truth...

                        The Foole doth thinke he is wise, but the wiseman knowes himselfe to be a Foole. (Vi) The Dunning-Kruger Effect - Not What It Seems or Why the Division into Smart and Stupid Is Stupid in Itself
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. +4
                        23 February 2025 10: 19
                        Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                        but the d***k doesn't doubt himself... example: in the Kremlin

                        And you are among them. You are not ashamed of your superiority over others.. And in the Kremlin... fools, and the people are fools, and you alone are smart, beautiful.. I congratulate everyone else on the holiday! Happy Defender of the Fatherland Day. Happy SA and Navy Day!
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. The comment was deleted.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. The comment was deleted.
                    2. -1
                      22 February 2025 19: 56
                      Yes, and the bridge to Crimea is a cartoon, because, as everyone knows, it is impossible to build.

                      the bridge to Crimea really exists there is one blogger who filmed it
                      construction, anyone can personally verify that the bike exists, because the bridge is in the public domain, unlike Poseidon, which is secret, it will not be shown, and therefore it is impossible to know for sure whether it exists.
                      The existence of some objects, even if you don’t believe in them, is an objective reality.

                      The existence of some objects is ensured by the ability to touch them, not by faith; the bridge can be touched, but Poseidon cannot.
                      1. +2
                        22 February 2025 20: 05
                        Quote: nickname7
                        You can touch the bridge, but you can't touch Poseidon.


                        It is possible, but not for you. That is why you believe that it does not exist.
                        By the way, you won't be able to touch the "Hazelnut" tree either, for now. So you can believe that it doesn't exist either.
              2. +4
                22 February 2025 00: 07
                Avantgarde and Zircon are even on duty. Where is the fairy tale?
                1. -1
                  22 February 2025 09: 33
                  Fairy tales from VVP on TV.... Joke - adults still believe cartoons
                  1. 0
                    22 February 2025 09: 35
                    The Crimean Bridge was also announced as a cartoon...
                    1. -5
                      22 February 2025 09: 37
                      I have always been insulted since the time of Gorbachev by the words - USSR (Russia) is a country of fools.... And now I understand that it is true... am sorry... nothing personal
                      1. +2
                        22 February 2025 09: 38
                        And now you insult. Are you satisfied?
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2025 09: 39
                        And I'm not insulting... I'm grieving that the majority are like this... alas...
                      3. +2
                        22 February 2025 17: 31
                        It's not for you to talk about fools. It's funny and a sin
                2. -1
                  22 February 2025 20: 09
                  Avantgarde and Zircon are even on duty. Where is the fairy tale?

                  And there is no radio communication, corrupt officials stole the funds. We should not boast about the vanguards, but equip the troops with the most important radio communication. Secondly, there is great corruption in the government and the Ministry of Defense...
                  While boasting about vanguards, corrupt officials continue to steal; to prevent this, power should be rotated more often.
                  Thirdly, did the Vanguards, Armatas and Zircons in the Kursk region help you expel the Ukrainian Armed Forces?
              3. +1
                22 February 2025 13: 31
                Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                And all these tales about the Vanguards, the Hazels, the Poseidons, the Petrels, the Armatas, the Zircons

                We were born to make fairy tales come true! (c)
                However, for some reason, analysts at the Pentagon include all of the "fairy tales" you listed in their calculations of the combat potentials of the parties when playing out (computer modeling) the possible beginning, course, and end of an armed conflict between "partners" with various scenarios for the origin, beginning, and course of a military conflict.
                Or do you seriously believe that the US Department of Defense and the National Security Committee are filled with naive children who believe, as you deigned to put it, "in fairy tales"? Well, well... continue to believe.
                /// Bambino is an idiot, a degenerate cretin!!! -- (c) ///
                AHA.
                1. -2
                  22 February 2025 13: 56
                  Dear Sir, don't provoke me to be rude :-)) I don't give a f**k whether the Pentagon is full of naive people or just geniuses... I'm scared that most of the site's visitors, and in the country as well, can't think for themselves and accept the fairy tales of propagandists like Solovyov, Skabeeva, Popov from the Rossiya-1 TV channel, the sailor and paratrooper from Channel One as reality... Now look at the calendar and the map of military operations in the SVO - don't you notice anything? But the front was near Kiev. Sumy and Kharkov... And now not far from Kursk...
                  1. +1
                    22 February 2025 14: 22
                    Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                    don't provoke me to be rude

                    I have no reason to provoke you. You are an ideological opponent of Putin and Co., so you should not be "provoked" but rather prevented for attempting to undermine the morale of the population and undermine trust in the country's leadership and the Armed Forces. Navalny's followers and relocates, they are "righteous", but for some reason they row against the current and all according to Soros's manuals! am
                    1. -1
                      22 February 2025 14: 29
                      I despise Navalny and "Navalnyites" :-)))) And I don't have a drop of trust in those in the Kremlin... If you want to remain fools - respect them and trust them...
                    2. 0
                      22 February 2025 20: 14
                      You are an ideological opponent of Putin and Co., so you should not be "provoked" but prevented

                      Are you even aware that it was none other than the guarantor who demanded that Yanukovych not disperse the Maidan? And thus brought the Bandera regime to power?
                      needed for attempting to undermine the morale of the population and undermine trust in the country's leadership and the Armed Forces

                      The population has no choice but to follow orders, either to make peace with the Banderas, to sell out the Russian Spring, or to fight with the Banderas. The population does what they are told, regardless of their spirit.
                  2. +1
                    22 February 2025 23: 18
                    There was no front near Kiev. It did not form. The Russian Armed Forces were indeed there on the third day, but retreated. What do they want, to destroy Kyiv like Mariupol? Look at some people!
              4. -2
                22 February 2025 17: 31
                Ostap started to cry
          2. 0
            21 February 2025 23: 54
            It would rather be an attack on major ports like Pearl Harbor, the Channel Tunnel.
          3. 0
            22 February 2025 00: 04
            A nuclear explosion in the water column will cause the appearance there steam bubble. Which will rise into the atmosphere for hours and cool down.
          4. 0
            23 February 2025 05: 05
            A nuclear explosion underwater has different dynamics than in the air - it weakens approximately inversely with the square of the distance, and not with the cube, as in the air. Therefore, the radius of destruction is much larger.
            1. 0
              23 February 2025 09: 35
              And how does that justify Poseidon's idiotic idea?
              1. 0
                26 February 2025 20: 35
                It's not idiotic if you read the findings from real tests.
                The coastline is especially important, and blowing them out with explosions in the water is quite effective.
                1. -2
                  27 February 2025 11: 14
                  Mother Russia will never run out of people who believe in fairy tales... sorry... nothing personal
          5. 0
            April 27 2025 13: 04
            Let's take the La Palma rift in the Canary Islands as an example: the explosion of Poseidon's NWH torpedo will cause a giant landslide, which in turn will cause a Megatsunami, and they will destroy the coastal megacities of the USA and Europe on the Atlantic coast.
        2. +4
          21 February 2025 11: 03
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          It is not known exactly how many Poseidon UAVs have already been scattered

          You scatter weapons, and then the enemy will take everything and put it into service for themselves.
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 11: 04
            no question,
            I hope I don't have to drive there OIS Yantar or MTV Zvezdochka
            - to pick up the UAV
            - otherwise it might even self-destruct by accident laughing
        3. +6
          21 February 2025 12: 24
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          there were rumors that the Belgorod submarine had already entered the database twice without a main BC of 2 units.
          It is not known exactly how many Poseidon UAVs have already been scattered
          even if not 12 but at least 6 AUVs are lying in the ground, for example:
          England: in the Firth of Clyde and the Thames
          France: Cherbourg, Ile Longue, Seine
          this is already a good support shoulder for the Strategic Missile Forces because
          it will be possible to destroy the strategic nuclear forces and the leadership of England and France without missile launches and their detection by the early warning system


          Where did this nonsense come from?
          1. -6
            21 February 2025 13: 46
            What's crazy (?)
            the fact that the US early warning system will not see the launch of an ICBM or IRBM against England and France (?)
            and what went off with 2 megatons in London and Paris is a big question (!) - is it nonsense (?)
            sure, try to find this AUV in the Thames or Seine where there is already enough junk on the bottom
            1. +4
              21 February 2025 13: 50
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              What's crazy (?)
              the fact that the US early warning system will not see the launch of an ICBM or IRBM against England and France (?)
              and what went off with 2 megatons in London and Paris is a big question (!) - is it nonsense (?)
              sure, try to find this AUV in the Thames or Seine where there is already enough junk on the bottom


              What he went out and scattered.
              Even the Poseidon testing program was not completed at Belgorod.
              Belgorod must serve in Vilyuchinsk.
              And you sent him to the Thames. To lay Poseidon

              There is no chance of releasing Poseidon; the launch requires really great depths.
              Simply based on the principle of starting the reactors on Poseidon itself.
              Poseidon is not launched inside the carrier. Like a torpedo.
              You probably still have to find out.

              Belgorod will never go to sea without an escort of 2-3-5 enemy submarines.
              Never.
              There is no chance to hide from this huge contraption.
              1. -4
                21 February 2025 13: 59
                what does the Belgorod submarine have to do with it at all - it's just a carrier - it might not have left the Barents Sea at all
                and could have fired from the naval base pier
                but the AUV is limited in range only by the service life of the reactor, 5 or 7 years
                1. +2
                  21 February 2025 14: 57
                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  what does the Belgorod submarine have to do with it at all - it's just a carrier - it might not have left the Barents Sea at all
                  and could have fired from the naval base pier
                  but the AUV is limited in range only by the service life of the reactor, 5 or 7 years


                  You don't read what you write.
                  I repeat.
                  Poseidon needs depth to start the reactor.
                  Great depth.
                  Belgorod cannot shoot away from the pier.
                  The AUV is limited not by the life of the reactor, but by many other, shorter-term parameters.
                  Degradation of control elements.
                  Vibration of elements.
                  Accumulation of errors in the computer block.
                  and many others that you don't even know about.
                  1. 0
                    24 February 2025 10: 20
                    let's be guided by at least the simplest logic:
                    The Poseidon AUV starts the reactor while still in the TPK filled with water before launch,
                    while on a submarine carrier (!)
                    and regarding the mistakes and deafness of the English and French - we will soon find out from the 2 new artificial reservoirs on the site of London and Paris
                    Warheads from 2 to 50 megatons are no joke
                    1. 0
                      24 February 2025 10: 40
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      let's be guided by at least the simplest logic:
                      The Poseidon AUV starts the reactor while still in the TPK filled with water before launch,
                      while on a submarine carrier (!)
                      and regarding the mistakes and deafness of the English and French - we will soon find out from the 2 new artificial reservoirs on the site of London and Paris
                      Warheads from 2 to 50 megatons are no joke


                      No, the reactor does not start up in the TPK while on the carrier submarine.
                      Once again no.
                      This is structurally impossible.
                      1. 0
                        24 February 2025 10: 54
                        there is such a thing as a school of rocketry and shipbuilding
                        everything is similar to the launch of the Granit anti-ship missile from a water-filled TPK
                        - everything has been worked out long ago
                2. 0
                  22 February 2025 14: 57
                  You risk attracting the attention of the orderlies before the Poseidons have won a lasting peace......
          2. +1
            22 February 2025 00: 09
            You can read even worse things on VO. It seems to be approved, instead of deleting...
          3. 0
            22 February 2025 14: 08
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Where did this nonsense come from?

            This is not nonsense, but “speculation” based on false premises that give scope for the listener’s imagination to fly.
            With regard to the article, I, for example, cannot agree with the following premises of the author.
            1. The development of Status-6 (aka Canyon, aka Poseidon) allegedly reduces the number of strike (multi-purpose) units. Firstly, Belgorod was cobbled together from a redesigned 949 project, and secondly, one Khabarovsk brings 3 times more headaches to the US Navy submarine command than the "beast" submarine division. Because their tasks are different and they pose strategic threats, while others pose operational-tactical ones.
            2. Underground shelters for units. A good thing, but extremely expensive, especially molded in "basalt". That's one. And, secondly, it's double-edged: with a precise hit, you can seal up (put out of play) all the units that have taken cover there. And, thirdly, the schemes given by the author have no relation to reality. There are rock shelters along the 2th GUMO line, but that's a completely different story.
            3. Product 2M39 (according to classification) belongs to the category of naval weapons, which are delivered to carriers. No "self-propelled" exit from the storage point is provided, since to launch Poseidon, a corresponding device (PU, TA) is needed, which is located on the submarine submarine / as an option - on Sarov.
            4. The attempt to equate Poseidon with the SKIF (a sea-based ballistic missile located in a launcher container) has nothing in common with the purpose and methods of use of the product. Poseidon is not Burevestnik, and the silent killer does not launch from a land (coastal) launcher to the American continent. It is secretly (!) delivered to the target and the enemy should not know about its presence until the moment of detonation. Therefore, its "secret paths" are used by carriers (SN submarines) to deliver it to the enemy coast as a "bookmark"... and the APNA itself chooses where to "lie", sneaking up to a point with the specified coordinates.
            And one more thing. The author did not indicate that the 2M39 can be used against AUG/AUS, if the Navy leadership decides to do so. On the shore - targeting by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, against sea targets - by the General Staff of the Navy of the Russian Federation.
            Somehow, however. AHA.
          4. -1
            22 February 2025 20: 18
            Where did this nonsense come from?

            This is a pink patriot, he can knock down a starlink with his hat without getting up from the couch.
        4. 0
          21 February 2025 14: 42
          It is not known exactly how many Poseidon UAVs have already been scattered

          No, that's unlikely... "I can't do that!" (from the movie "The Diamond Arm"). What if I lose it and can't find where I hid it? Or the enemy will accidentally find it? Again, how and with what can I give the command to the depths that it's time?
          As for the placement of the Poseidon in coastal shelters, I have already asked myself three times on this forum. But each time I was told that such shelters would be covered before it crawled out of there. Then I suggested making a lot of dummy shelters with an imitation of a visit by service personnel... try to find out where it really is. And this is much more difficult than tracking a single carrier submarine. Yes, they will try to destroy it first and not let it leave the base.
          1. -3
            21 February 2025 14: 47
            It's not a big deal even if they find the UAV - the main thing is that it's NOT in Norfolk
            but you still can't figure it out
            The Chinese can't disassemble our brand new turbojet engines without a special stand
            and here is a reactor and a nuclear warhead of 2 megatons + all sorts of sensors + algorithms
            here we can't do without calling our nuclear scientists and the OIS - there will certainly be a scandal
            but we, like the Americans, just don't care
            1. +7
              21 February 2025 15: 10
              In your case, Poseidon turns into an ordinary nuclear mine on the bottom and you didn't say how to launch it, with what signal and from where? How long can it remain on the bottom waiting, and how to find it for possible maintenance and preventive maintenance? fellow
              1. +1
                24 February 2025 10: 13
                Zeus communication system with submarines - transmitters are located on the Kola Peninsula and in Belarus - range 10 km.
                it's like the german goliath from ww2 with a range of 4000 km
                or the American Project Sanguine system (ELF project) also with a range of 10 km
                1. +1
                  24 February 2025 10: 40
                  Romario_Argo(Roman), thank you for your participation. But you should have read my comments below and believed that I am a little familiar with "Zeus" (82 Hz) and can even correct you that "Zeus" is our only transmitter of this range of ELF (Extremely Low Frequencies), which is below 3 kHz. And all the others, these are VLF transmitters (3-30 kHz) and their external antenna fields and operating principle, are radically different from "Zeus". The VLF transmitter in Belarus is the 43rd Navy Communications Node in Vileika. In addition to it, there are VLF transmitters in Primorye and Kyrgyzstan. But "Zeus" is the only one in its range and operating principle with an underground antenna in the dry rocky soil of the Kola Peninsula.
                  The difference between these transmitters is not only in power, but in the penetration of radio waves into the depth. For "Zeus" it can reach 200 meters in the near zone of the oceans, and for the VLF range it is no more than 60-70 meters and strongly depends on the distance.
                  1. 0
                    24 February 2025 10: 56
                    For Zeus, this can reach 200 meters in the near zone of the oceans,

                    great, a range of 10 km and a depth of up to 000 meters for the Thames and Seine rivers will be enough for us laughing
                    1. 0
                      24 February 2025 13: 48
                      I agree. But don't think that we won't soon get something similar in our Neva or in Sevastopol Bay. Or do you think that no one else in the world will be able to whip up their own "Poseidon"?
                      I am not against developing the latest weapons for our Armed Forces, but I admit that I do not yet understand the principle of using "Poseidon" in practice. Someone here on the forum claims that its nuclear reactor can only be launched at depth and therefore it is impossible to send it on a voyage from the shore or a surface ship - only from a submarine. Even if you kill me, I do not understand why, if this is true. Satellites with nuclear installations have already been launched into space, but here it is impossible...?
          2. +2
            22 February 2025 01: 41
            how and what to give the command to the depths that it is time

            And as for any strategist - super long waves. Transmitter "Zeus", carrier frequency 82 hertz. I repeat - hertz!
            1. +1
              22 February 2025 09: 21
              stankow(stan), I was a radio operator on a submarine and I know about VLF and all transmitters including "Zeus" very well. But VLF does not penetrate deeper than 50 meters under water, and "Zeus" was the only one of its kind and it seems that it has long outlived its usefulness and does not work for objective reasons of its inefficiency.
              1. +1
                22 February 2025 09: 25
                Well, that means the product will float to 50 m to receive commands. And Zeus is working. The strategists are on duty, there is a connection with them.
                1. 0
                  23 February 2025 11: 11
                  Are you suggesting that the Poseidon program include periodic surfacing for communication? And how often should it do this? And isn't your proposal too clever, if not more - utopian. Why all this, if it can just as easily be in any skerry-garage on its territory and be launched from the shore when needed and without unnecessary risks of lying on the ocean floor?
                  "Zeus" (KLF) is no longer used for the Navy purposes, and civilian applications are being sought for it. This method of communication has proven to be extremely unuseful for the current peaceful situation, where it can only be useful if all other means of communication are lost. And where is the guarantee that "Zeus" will not be destroyed before all the others, since its location with power supply facilities is no secret to anyone, and it is the only one in the entire country. Moreover, with its signal transmission speed (three letters in 15 minutes), and even when receiving such signals on a submarine, no submarine commander will immediately fire back without making sure that the war has really begun via other channels and signs. The whole trick is in receiving a signal from "Zeus" a little earlier, but even for this you will need to be no deeper than 200 meters and drag an almost kilometer-long antenna behind you. And what about "Poseidon" which does not have such an antenna?
                  I had a radio receiver "Depth" of the VLF range on my submarine and all the RDGs on board were duplicated in this range, and this is not the ELF range at all. Nevertheless, the boat regularly surfaced to a depth of 50 meters and released the towed antenna "Paravan", ignoring reception even on VLF for normal reception in the HF range.
                  We have at least 4 or 5 VLF transmitters, and dozens of HF ones that can be used to communicate with submarines. I won't mention satellites, but in any case, no one will rely on a single "Zeus".
                  1. 0
                    23 February 2025 18: 31
                    Why should Poseidon lie on the bottom and wait for a command? They programmed the target coordinates, launched it, either from a carrier or from the shore, and there is no return. A weapon of guaranteed response. Slow, but inevitable. If necessary, then launch a kilometer-long antenna and surface, why not. If a submarine can do it, what can stop it? With a nuclear reactor on board, it can handle any antenna.
                    1. +1
                      24 February 2025 11: 03
                      depths of up to 50 meters in the Thames, Seine, Tiber rivers and a distance of less than 10 km from the Kola Peninsula and the reactor's energy would be enough to accept the command to detonate a 000 megaton landmine in the center of London, Paris, Rome
        5. 0
          21 February 2025 16: 59
          Exactly.
          The author apparently missed the information (it is not known, of course, to what extent it corresponds to reality) that the TPK is planned to be placed on the bottom in advance.
          It is also not entirely clear whether a potential enemy has the ability to track and attack targets at the stated depth of Poseidon's movement to the target - 1 kilometer.
          Are there forces and means to cover, if not the entire coastline, then important areas?
          And the possibility of doing this unnoticed? (since deployment may be a sign of preparation for an attack)
          And the ability to do this constantly or just for a long time?

          questions, questions. and no answers. I hope the potential enemy has none either.
        6. 0
          21 February 2025 17: 32
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          even if not 12 but at least 6 AUVs are lying in the ground, for example

          The problem is that "they'll find it and steal it."
          It's good if there's a suicide bomber for such a case.
          But what if they don’t try to steal it, but instead plant a mine, for example?

          And if you post security, it's a dead giveaway.
          1. 0
            24 February 2025 10: 05
            Let them do what they want.
            without our MTV, the AUV cannot be removed - otherwise there will be trouble
            1. 0
              24 February 2025 11: 05
              Probably not to remove.
              But to plant a mine - maybe yes.
              (yes, I still need to find it...)
              That is, if a rocket in a silo or on a self-propelled chassis has some confidence that it will launch, then this is not entirely true.
              Rough speaking, at least a hundred is needed to be sure.
              Try and find a hundred needles in the world's haystack...
              1. 0
                24 February 2025 11: 11
                and the point of mining our AUV is in case of an explosion even without a nuclear explosion
                there will still be contamination of the area
                and if the option of equipping Poseidon - Cobalt-60 is confirmed
                - it will still be an exclusion zone for 5 years in the same London and Paris
                The AUVs are already lying in the river bed:
                London - Thames
                Paris - Seine
                at the X hour the command to detonate is guaranteed to come from SS Zeus
                1. 0
                  24 February 2025 14: 36
                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  and the point of mining our AUV is in case of an explosion even without a nuclear explosion
                  there will still be contamination of the area

                  It is clearly not 500m from the target (they will definitely find it).
                  And so (if they find them) - they'll shit "somewhere there".
                  It won't wash away or blow up ports, for example.

                  Quote: Romario_Argo
                  The AUVs are already lying in the river bed

                  Although of course if it’s in rivers it’s tempting.
                  But it will be a mess if they find it (there is no war and it is on their territory).
                  Well, the river is not that deep, and an echo sounder or a diver/fisherman can find it, plus the anchor will definitely catch it.
        7. +1
          22 February 2025 00: 00
          scattered
          even if not 12 but at least 6 AUVs are in the ground


          Impossible. Russia has not withdrawn from the treaty prohibiting the placement of nuclear weapons on the seabed.
          1. 0
            24 February 2025 10: 02
            We'll find out soon. All the red lines have already been crossed.
            Uncle Vova is NOT a parrot - everything has already been said to everyone
            now only a profound change in the landscape
          2. 0
            24 February 2025 14: 38
            Quote: stankow
            location of nuclear weapons on the seabed

            Well, it's IN THE SUBMARINE.
            (well, the fact that it is automated is not the point)
            1. 0
              24 February 2025 23: 30
              Well, Poseidon is not a submarine, more like a torpedo. And it lies on the bottom in advance and lies there, it is not accepted. According to the agreement of February 11, 1971. Any nuclear installations and structures outside the 12-mile zone of the country. VVP is our lawyer, he strictly observes this.
              1. 0
                25 February 2025 11: 23
                Well, the boundary between a torpedo and an automated bathyscaphe is basically only in purpose (and the fact that the torpedo has an elongated shape is secondary).
                Well, yes, the purpose is to explode.
                But you can say that “This is a complex for monitoring seismic activity of the bottom.
                Bomb? Well then, self-destruct.
                We protect the data and do not want it to fall into the hands of unauthorized persons." wink
    2. +1
      21 February 2025 06: 08
      than when you urgently need it, but it is not there.
      there are nuances here, we have missiles - we do, we have a whole pack, but Poseidon is, firstly, not even the second or third condom, and secondly, it's not even a condom, these are some kind of pills that won't work right away, that is, "urgently needed" is not about him, the only thing is 100 megatons to wash away cities
      1. +4
        21 February 2025 06: 25
        if these torpedoes are equipped with a suitable AI and sent to sleep where they want to, for example, take a nap according to their performance characteristics, then a suitable topic is lying somewhere at 800 meters, a torpedo, oops, the time has come, then once and they serviced it to the house and back to the ground, but it didn’t arrive at the appointed time, the code is all welcome, then the United States
        1. +6
          21 February 2025 08: 31
          Starting TMV by default if the control signal is lost is not a good idea.
          1. +6
            21 February 2025 10: 17
            Quote: kit88
            Starting TMV by default if the control signal is lost is not a good idea.

            Well, no one would just release a torpedo to sink continents, something more clever would be to raise an antenna and communicate via satellite. Or other procedures. Living next door to such devils as those swarming in Europe, and with such inadequates as they did before Trump... for such a thing, clubs of all kinds and sizes should always be at hand.
            Well, England can and would be highly desirable to sink with such an instrument simply as a preventative measure, because it deserves it beyond all measure.
        2. +4
          21 February 2025 17: 35
          Quote from Mazunga
          and the code didn't come on time, all welcome to the united states

          You have indeed "invented" the Perimeter system.
          Only built into the dashboard.
          I like it.
          It would be good if only the car gave a signal, and that the cars were serviced too.
          The car won't betray you like it did in 1991, at most it will break down.
      2. -7
        21 February 2025 07: 25
        Poseidon can torpedo the Canary Islands. Then a hundred cubic kilometers of volcanic rock will fall into the Atlantic Ocean, and a supertsunami wave will hit the coast of North America, and in 5-6 hours it will wash away all the coastal cities. This is a Doomsday weapon.
        1. +8
          21 February 2025 10: 49
          and a super tsunami wave will hit the coast of North America, and in 5-6 hours it will wash away all the coastal cities. This is a Doomsday weapon.


          You will cut the sturgeon, what a super tsunami, for this and all the nuclear reserves of Russia may not be enough.
        2. +4
          21 February 2025 12: 27
          Quote: Bearded
          Poseidon can torpedo the Canary Islands. Then a hundred cubic kilometers of volcanic rock will fall into the Atlantic Ocean, and a supertsunami wave will hit the coast of North America, and in 5-6 hours it will wash away all the coastal cities. This is a Doomsday weapon.


          Read sometime in your free time, research on the problems of destroying an asteroid with a diameter of at least over 100 meters...
          With all nuclear potential.
          I highly recommend real scientists.

          This is for understanding about hundreds of cubic kilometers from nuclear weapons
          1. -2
            21 February 2025 13: 29
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Quote: Bearded
            Poseidon can torpedo the Canary Islands. Then a hundred cubic kilometers of volcanic rock will fall into the Atlantic Ocean, and a supertsunami wave will hit the coast of North America, and in 5-6 hours it will wash away all the coastal cities. This is a Doomsday weapon.


            Read sometime in your free time, research on the problems of destroying an asteroid with a diameter of at least over 100 meters...
            With all nuclear potential.
            I highly recommend real scientists.

            This is for understanding about hundreds of cubic kilometers from nuclear weapons

            Al, I didn't drink brotherhood with you. No. drinks
            So, moderate your familiarity. hi
            To make smart statements, read up on the geology of the Canary Islands. It's a former volcano formed by layers of lava flows, like a head of cabbage. Even without a nuclear torpedo, there's a threat of huge masses of rock collapsing into the Atlantic Ocean. It's as vulnerable a spot on the planet as Yellowstone. wink
            1. 0
              21 February 2025 13: 46
              Quote: Bearded
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Quote: Bearded
              Poseidon can torpedo the Canary Islands. Then a hundred cubic kilometers of volcanic rock will fall into the Atlantic Ocean, and a supertsunami wave will hit the coast of North America, and in 5-6 hours it will wash away all the coastal cities. This is a Doomsday weapon.


              Read sometime in your free time, research on the problems of destroying an asteroid with a diameter of at least over 100 meters...
              With all nuclear potential.
              I highly recommend real scientists.

              This is for understanding about hundreds of cubic kilometers from nuclear weapons

              Al, I didn't drink brotherhood with you. No. drinks
              So, moderate your familiarity. hi
              To make smart statements, read up on the geology of the Canary Islands. It's a former volcano formed by layers of lava flows, like a head of cabbage. Even without a nuclear torpedo, there's a threat of huge masses of rock collapsing into the Atlantic Ocean. It's as vulnerable a spot on the planet as Yellowstone. wink


              It is customary to communicate informally on the Internet.
              For many, many years now.
              Your transfer into brotherhood gives a lot of insight into you.

              5 more times.
              Forget the myths and wet dreams about Yellowstone and the Canaries.
              There is currently no technical possibility of destroying a rocky asteroid even 100 meters in diameter.
              Earthly science, technology, armies, the entire nuclear potential of the planet are not capable of this.
              Is this reality???

              And you are raving about Stalin's straits.
              And other wet fantasies.
        3. +3
          21 February 2025 18: 21
          It's easier to throw the moon to the earth than to create such a super tsunami laughing
        4. -1
          22 February 2025 15: 00
          From which chamber do you have the honor of bringing educational programs to the masses?
        5. 0
          24 February 2025 09: 21
          Borodach (Borodach)-7, don't you feel sorry for Cuba and Nicaragua? By the way, as well as all of South America with Venezuela and Brazil... Or do you have a tsunami of a highly targeted nature and it will hit only the USA? fellow lol laughing
          Ah, I get it! When you chop down a forest, chips fly. feel
      3. +2
        22 February 2025 19: 31
        It was already answered above in the comment thread that an underwater nuclear explosion is not capable of causing a tsunami. And a 100 MT warhead has geometric parameters that clearly do not fit into the dimensions of this strange underwater vehicle. So all such fantasies are similar to fairy tales about the combat magic oven of Yemelya, the owner of the rights to the abilities of the famous pike...)))
    3. -1
      1 March 2025 00: 18
      I hope this condom isn't full of holes and smeared with grease.
      A hint at "Posya", if anything.
  2. +7
    21 February 2025 03: 03
    Cartoons are cartoons.
    But a nuclear thing floating in an unknown place without supervision in the depths of the ocean, which, by the way, could have its keel (or brains) jammed and turn in the opposite direction - that's not very pleasant.
    1. +8
      21 February 2025 07: 03
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      and it will turn in the opposite direction - this is not very pleasant.

      What can be said here when the world ocean covers more than 70% of the Earth's surface, and of this entire area only 2-5% has been explored, and most of the ocean depths still remain unexplored...
      If we assume that such a torpedo will be launched at a great distance, it is not a fact that its navigation, especially with significant immersion, will not fail or will not fall into a specific zone, that the device will not collide with an underwater rock, a whale, an alien submarine, or something else. There are a lot of nuances, where programming and satellite support of the air flight of a cruise missile is much easier than such a drone in the water column. Even well-trained submarine crews got into difficult situations or lost orientation.
      If we recall the Soviet "Tsar-torpedo", it was supposed to be launched directly from a submarine. The project was abandoned due to the vulnerability of the submarine itself. Judging by the way this project with "Poseidon" was "exposed" in our country, allowing media representatives to look over their shoulder at secret information, everything resembles disinformation, a bluff that would be more calculated for PR in front of the average citizen than a real intimidation of the West.
      If we are like, "We, as victims of aggression, as martyrs, will go to heaven, and they will simply die, because they won't even have time to repent," then, with this approach, it would be enough to simply blow up all of our nuclear charges and our nuclear power plants right away on our territory, and the whole world will be in a painful daze, and we will immediately go to heaven.
      I think that the matter of our security is in independent policy, firmness of words and fulfillment of promises, and not empty chatter with many "red lines". Then we will have security and international authority in the world.
      1. +3
        21 February 2025 08: 14
        Most likely, this is not a bluff after all.
        Another thing is that the tactics of using such weapons require practice.
        At the moment, apart from general ideas, no specific tactical deployment methods, delivery methods, or launch boundaries have been developed. Even the practical consequences of the ammunition detonation are purely speculative. After all, it is practically impossible to conduct full-scale tests based on the specifics of this weapon.
        It may take years to resolve this entire complex of problems.
        And in the end, when all the loose ends are tied up, this weapon may turn out to be irrelevant, useless and therefore unnecessary.
        The very fact of the existence of such a type of weapon will be relevant here.
        That is, the threat of its use will be greater than the use itself.
        1. +4
          21 February 2025 12: 29
          Quote: U-58
          Most likely, this is not a bluff after all.
          .


          I agree.
          Not a bluff.
          Just a stupid cut.
          For which you will never account.
          Even ICBMs can be tested.
          Carrier, warhead.
          Can.

          Poseidon cannot be tested.
          1. -2
            21 February 2025 17: 39
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Poseidon cannot be tested.

            Do you really feel sorry for Britain?
            I do not. laughing
            In fact, I don’t feel sorry for Japan either, but you can’t shit where you live, and similar tests on the Japanese will shit on the Far East, and China “won’t understand.”
          2. 0
            21 February 2025 20: 41
            What about mathematical modeling?
          3. 0
            22 February 2025 01: 47
            As a carrier it can be tested and is tested. And warheads as on missiles - only by modeling.
          4. -3
            22 February 2025 16: 07
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Not a bluff.
            Just a stupid cut.

            Yeah, they started sawing almost under Stalin.
            1. -1
              23 February 2025 21: 32
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Not a bluff.
              Just a stupid cut.

              Yeah, they started sawing almost under Stalin.

              It was precisely under Stalin that the embezzlement was not allowed. But under the current VG it was allowed.
              As in the joke: "In Moscow, the girls couldn't share the guy. But in St. Petersburg, they shared him."

              St. Petersburg... they are like this...
              1. -1
                23 February 2025 22: 39
                Quote: SovAr238A
                It was precisely under Stalin that the embezzlement was not allowed. But under the current VG it was allowed.

                That is OH already in 1949 was The Supreme??
                What's wrong with her.....
                "It was precisely the inability of classical torpedoes to use nuclear weapons that necessitated the development of a new underwater "delivery vehicle" for them. 1949(!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) belay work began on the design of the monstrous T-15, which had a caliber of 1 mm and was capable of carrying more than three tons ofspecial warhead"Accordingly, the other dimensions of the T-15 had to be made cyclopean - its length was 24 m, weight - about 40 tons. The carrier of the T-15 was to be the first Soviet submarines of Project 627."
                https://topwar-ru.turbopages.org/turbo/topwar.ru/s/144685-o-megacunami-akademike-a-n-saharove-i-superoruzhii-putina.html

                Z.Y.
                Quote: SovAr238A
                It was precisely under Stalin that embezzlement was not allowed.

                There was a comrade Korolev - they beat him a little for embezzling state funds - apparently he was a soft investigator. If he had been more energetic, Korolev would have become a Spanish spy.... Thank God for the investigator's sluggishness - otherwise they could have been left without missiles, he would have beaten him to death and that's it, that's all....
                And then there was Bekauri - the father of all Soviet UAVs, BEKs, robots, remotely detonated mines and so on. He also "sawed off the money" and that's it - they smeared his forehead with green paint.
                And we could have been ahead of everyone in the world by 1960.
                And many of these "damned plunderers of socialist property" were shot
      2. 0
        22 February 2025 19: 41
        Quote: Per se.
        It seems to me that the issue of our security lies in an independent policy, firm words and keeping promises, and not empty chatter...

        It seems that under the existing system of global capitalism, with the total penetration of special services into all spheres of activity and the prevalence of private interests over general ones, only that country on which the overwhelming majority of other countries depend can be considered somehow independent.
    2. 0
      21 February 2025 17: 38
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      or brains

      Double-triple dubbing is already a classic.
      I think the keel of such things is not simple either.
      1. 0
        22 February 2025 01: 48
        Buran even had quadruple controls.
        1. +2
          22 February 2025 05: 36
          You mean quadruple redundancy. Even in aviation in the 70s and 80s it was used.
          1. +1
            22 February 2025 08: 56
            Yes, yes, exactly quadruple redundancy, that is the correct term.
        2. +1
          22 February 2025 12: 46
          Buran could even land on its own, using a radio glide path (or whatever it’s called correctly?).
          Very cool thing.
          BUT you are right, duplication-reservation in itself is not new.
          However, what is not new does not make it worse.
  3. +1
    21 February 2025 03: 34
    Well, yes... Another option - demonstrative "friendly" visits... So Poseidon pops up somewhere right next to the Tower Bridge, moors in automatic mode, shows off, and disappears... And on the embankment there will be a sign - "Vasya was here!" And they also say "and in the Potomac - such crayfish"... Why not go for a swim? For crayfish...
    1. -1
      21 February 2025 12: 30
      Quote: Zyablicev43
      Well, yes... Another option - demonstrative "friendly" visits... So Poseidon pops up somewhere right next to the Tower Bridge, moors in automatic mode, shows off, and disappears... And on the embankment there will be a sign - "Vasya was here!" And they also say "and in the Potomac - such crayfish"... Why not go for a swim? For crayfish...


      Write down your dealer's phone number.
      We want that bad grass too.
      1. 0
        21 February 2025 13: 24
        Yes, it's a joke... But with a hint. Don't take it seriously. And you don't need a dealer, there's a lot of stuff there even without a dealer.
  4. +1
    21 February 2025 04: 19
    "Poseidon" is a truly controversial weapon in terms of its use. On the one hand, it is a fairly powerful autonomous system capable of causing a lot of trouble to the enemy. On the other hand, an emergency situation can have serious consequences for us. But the fact that we have it is still good.
  5. +6
    21 February 2025 04: 23
    Again some kind of waffle that doesn't exist. And it's impossible to create a tsunami with the help of an atomic explosion. am
  6. +4
    21 February 2025 04: 24
    I wonder where the ever-flying "petrel" is?
    1. +4
      21 February 2025 04: 29
      Air cover for Poseidon.
    2. 0
      22 February 2025 15: 06
      I think they showed 4 PUs on TV in the summer.
      It will stand for a while and quietly for scrap metal...
  7. -3
    21 February 2025 04: 47
    Europe owes Russia several million citizens. This needs to be fixed. What will happen if Poseidons come to the Irish Sea, west of Great Britain, and to the English Channel? I look at the map and see so many places for use, the Bay of Biscay, the Gulf of Lyons, but this is purely scientific interest. Along the Seine River to Paris, for example. Although on the other hand, both there and there are only rats and homeless people with migrants. Should Poseidons be wasted on them?
    1. -8
      21 February 2025 05: 17
      What will happen if in the Irish Sea
      The Christmas tsunami, which brought down 30-meter waves on the gently sloping, unprotected and very densely populated (Asia) shores, killed 280 thousand people. The French and English will be very unhappy, and will fire their missiles in response. Such an action will not bring you any victory. Rather the opposite.
      1. 0
        21 February 2025 06: 29
        and who will hit Asia))? no, everything will go to one nasty little archipelago, maybe then there will be no one to fire missiles there, and if the plate shift damages the mbr silos, that's also a holiday, and the main thing could be good overseas if they don't stir up a retaliatory strike, but a preemptive one
        1. 0
          21 February 2025 13: 59
          who will hit Asia
          What I mean is that England is not Asia - high fortified banks, hilly terrain, capital buildings - there will be even fewer victims.
          Shifting plates will damage the MBR shafts
          All ICBMs on submarines are here.
      2. 0
        21 February 2025 13: 50
        The French and English will be very unhappy and will fire their missiles back.
        now you write for the French too? Yours are all so brave, especially if you type from the couch on the keyboard laughing
        1. 0
          21 February 2025 13: 57
          Yours are all so brave
          The red lines failed to scare any of "ours".
          Now you're writing for the French too?
          As fate would have it, I know the French firsthand and in every way better than the forum people. So yes, I write.
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 14: 02
            The red lines failed to scare any of "ours".
            your red lines were never seen by anyone, at most the decomposed army of Argentina was driven
            As fate would have it, I know the French firsthand and in every way better than the forum people. So yes, I write.
            Did you meet in the gym and find out how brave you are?
            1. +4
              21 February 2025 14: 04
              we met at the gym
              The wife is a native of the glorious city of Paris.
              to drive the decomposed army of Argentina
              Someone also wanted to drive the decomposed Ukrainian army. It didn't work.
              1. -2
                21 February 2025 14: 41
                The wife is a native of the glorious city of Paris.
                it's clear where you got it from the French tongue
                Someone also wanted to drive the decomposed Ukrainian army. It didn't work.
                and what does this have to do with you? lol
                1. +2
                  21 February 2025 14: 46
                  got it in the neck from the French
                  I didn't get into trouble anywhere - I drank wine with them in Saint-Tropez and had frogs for snacks. Tasty little animals, by the way.
                  and what does this have to do with you?
                  And just like you, while laughing at other people’s successes, don’t forget about your own.
                  1. 0
                    21 February 2025 18: 20
                    I didn’t get into trouble anywhere - I drank wine with them in Saint-Tropez and ate frogs.
                    Well, it's clear - they are fighting men, they will all go to war as one
                    And just like you, while laughing at other people’s successes, don’t forget about your own.
                    you are always getting excited here, that if Britain does something - the whole world will crumble to dust, you must be confident in great courage lol
                    1. -1
                      21 February 2025 18: 27
                      Britain at the slightest thing - the whole world will fall to pieces
                      Not just the whole world, but in the event of an attack, the Russian Federation will go down in history, turning into an archipelago of warring quasi-states with a population of several million.
                      1. -1
                        4 March 2025 12: 16
                        And Britain will rule the universe, not fade into history laughing
                        Bolt Cutter decided so when he was drinking with the French
              2. -2
                22 February 2025 01: 50
                Someone also wanted to drive the Ukrainian army. It didn't work out It worked out very well. And everyone is driving faster.
                1. 0
                  22 February 2025 01: 57
                  It turned out very well
                  It’s unlikely that a bloody confrontation lasting 3+ years was in the original plans.
                  1. -1
                    22 February 2025 02: 03
                    There were no such plans for any war. But it happened that way. WWI, and Finnish, and WWII, and Afghanistan, and Chechen, two of them. And the Korean war is not over, and the Americans are stuck in Afghanistan for 20 years. And the Germans were counting on a blitzkrieg for only six months. It's always like that, with any army that meets another, a real army.
                    1. +2
                      22 February 2025 02: 10
                      But that's how it happened.
                      A good argument when the neighbor's daughter gets pregnant Yes The SVO was clearly counting on a surrender like in Crimea.
  8. +8
    21 February 2025 04: 52
    This "Mitrofanovism" is very reminiscent of Soviet classics:
    I haven't read Pasternak, but I condemn him...

    wassat
  9. + 13
    21 February 2025 04: 59
    The author is a bit of an Estonian. With the help of the "unparalleled in the world" Poseidons, the entire galaxy has already been conquered 15 times and the surrender of Gayropa and America has been accepted.
    After which Shoigu and Putin have already created many new types of weapons based on new physical principles, and Poseidon was written off as unnecessary
    Now in the army another super weapon is relevant - combat donkeys and assault Zhiguli. Now that's power!
    P.S. The author should also remember the Armatas, which were supposed to be in service with the army in 2020 in the amount of 2000 units.
    1. -10
      21 February 2025 07: 40
      Are you talking about the Yankees in Afghanistan?
      They used donkeys there... uh... to transport goods, and not what you thought.

      Especially for couch potatoes - pack animals do not require maintenance, refueling (and, consequently, fuel delivery), etc., etc.
  10. kig
    +6
    21 February 2025 05: 03
    Now tell me about Burevestnik. It's also something that seems to exist, but also seems to not exist.
  11. +6
    21 February 2025 05: 08
    In conditions where there is doubt about the ability of the owner of nuclear weapons to use them, even the presence of the "Death Star" is useless.
    1. +4
      21 February 2025 06: 32
      Yes, Brzezinski with his 500 billion and the elite said it right, this is a dispute between economic entities
  12. +6
    21 February 2025 05: 14
    a speed of 200 km/h (if they are not lying) is so noisy that it will be heard by hydrophones of the entire world ocean, and even at such a speed it will take more than a day to get to the States, during which time the Poseidons (flying ones) will throw depth charges at it, they will have many attempts, or they will use a low-power nuclear charge on a collision course....
    1. -2
      21 February 2025 13: 52
      200 km/h is for the final rush to the target, so it will slowly crawl along the bottom for several weeks
  13. 0
    21 February 2025 05: 24
    For some reason it seems to me that this torpedo (if they are not lying about its characteristics) is more suitable for fighting aircraft carrier groups than port infrastructure, firstly, there will be no tsunami there, an underwater nuclear explosion does not cause them (at least of the described power), secondly, too long a travel time makes the torpedo vulnerable, but if you fire it, say, from a couple of hundred kilometers at an order of ships (the main thing is that it can be guided to this order), then the ships simply will not be able to counter it, they will not be able to escape from it, intercept? They will have too little time for this, and the weapons for this must be appropriate, not every group has nuclear depth charges in its arsenal (most likely none at all) and carriers capable of delivering them ...
    1. +6
      21 February 2025 10: 49
      warships in a combat formation do not sail closely together like soldiers on parade... there are very large distances between them... therefore, the use of nuclear weapons against formations of ships is pointless... but it is quite effective and possible when hitting close to one warship...
    2. 0
      22 February 2025 05: 45
      That's how it is. The enemy's AUG is Poseidon's priority target.
      1. 0
        1 March 2025 00: 14
        And how will Poseidon get her?
  14. +9
    21 February 2025 05: 34
    "...There is still no reliable information about the characteristics of the Poseidon UAV..." (c) Then where does the conclusion about its controversial nature come from and what is this article for anyway? It turns out that you write about something - I don't know what, analyze something - I don't know what. And the conclusion about its controversial nature has already been made. You could have limited yourself to the title and the last line.
  15. BAI
    +3
    21 February 2025 06: 05
    Poseidon is useless because it is known in advance that they will be afraid to use it.
    You can consider that the money has been spent, but it is not there
    1. 0
      21 February 2025 06: 36
      so it's useless))? and the budget and the opportunity to make schemes) if you see weapons only as weapons then your world is poor from any torpedo such a chalet in Switzerland can be built sheikhs out of envy will accept giyur
      1. +1
        21 February 2025 07: 43
        Find a school textbook already!!!
        I'm sick of posting this nonsense.
        Learn spelling, grammar and, fuck, punctuation!!!

        Eyes bleeding...
        1. +2
          21 February 2025 14: 50
          Allarme))) in the comments ahtunga tongue
          1. +1
            22 February 2025 12: 13
            Is it really that crazy? laughing
            1. +2
              22 February 2025 13: 04
              Yavol Herr General Taki Akhtungi vnaturi lol
    2. bar
      +6
      21 February 2025 10: 30
      Quote: BAI
      Poseidon is useless because it is known in advance that they will be afraid to use it.

      Just like all the Strategic Missile Forces. Are they also not needed?
    3. 0
      21 February 2025 16: 12
      Your comment is useless, because little more than nothing is known about "Poseidon". Neither about technical characteristics, nor about methods and tactics of application. The same goes for money. What was spent, what was spent on, what were the results - what is known?
  16. 0
    21 February 2025 07: 02
    You can make a carrier of such a torpedo some nondescript fishing boat, which will never be noticed. Well, something like our mobile rail-based missile systems
  17. +7
    21 February 2025 07: 20
    If "Poseidon" is really not a fiction and exists in the form of at least running mock-ups for testing, then this is rather a plus. Since such a "wonder weapon" exists, our "probable friends" will be forced to collect information about it, invent various ways to neutralize this thing, etc. In general, spend their resources on searching for a possible "antidote".
    All this has already happened once...
    Let's remember the Tirpitz, which was a pain in the ass of the British Navy for almost the entire war. It didn't even have to stick its head out anywhere, it was already like a magnet attracting a good part of the Royal Air Force and Navy. Quite a lot of resources were spent on it, although the question remains - was it worth it?
    So our Union, in the person of its leaders at that time, “bought in” to the “Star Wars” program, which in the end turned out to be just a beautiful advertisement for George Lucas’s film.
    So maybe "Poseidon" has the same functions, but in reality something completely different is being created...
  18. +4
    21 February 2025 07: 48
    Why write about something we know practically nothing about? Just assumptions, maybe this way, maybe that way, maybe it's not like that at all... an article for the sake of an article
  19. +5
    21 February 2025 07: 56
    The funds and resources spent on this something could have been directed to much more important types of troops. Considering the state of the ground forces' materiel....
    1. bar
      0
      21 February 2025 10: 33
      Quote: Vulpes
      The funds and resources spent on this something could be directed

      Well, yes, and also for doctors-teachers-retirees... Everything is as usual
    2. -1
      21 February 2025 13: 55
      Timur Ivanov would have stolen these funds more likely. There were enough funds for everything, but Shoigu's men stole as if it were the last day before the end of the world.
      1. 0
        22 February 2025 12: 14
        Do you think he and people like him didn't take a bite out of it?
  20. 0
    21 February 2025 08: 12
    and why can't we just make a large nuclear torpedo without a nuclear reactor (which apparently costs a fortune) on conventional batteries or a steam-gas one, let's try to make some simple primitive calculations - it is known that with an increase in the size of a body, its surface area grows proportionally to the square, and the volume is proportional to the cube (that's why ships try to make as large as possible in order to spend less fuel per unit of cargo) let's say our conditional electric Poseidon has a displacement of 50 times greater than a conventional torpedo, which means its wetted area will be about 7 times greater than that of a conventional torpedo, that is, we can stuff 50 times more batteries in there (with unchanged proportions) and the resistance of the water will only be 7 times higher, we replace the batteries with lithium-ion ones, which are somewhere 6 times more efficient than acid ones and we get about 40 times greater cruising range than a conventional torpedo, that is, somewhere 1000-1500 km at 30-40 knots, and if the torpedo is steam-gas, then the range and speed can be increased even more, so why the hell do we need a nuclear reactor, with all the hassle that comes with its presence?
    1. +4
      21 February 2025 13: 04
      The calculation is incorrect.
      The surface area increases by 50 when the volume increases by 13,57 times.
      In addition, the need for hydrodynamic buoyancy does not allow the use of a low-noise mode of movement.
    2. 0
      1 March 2025 00: 12
      why can't we just make a large nuclear torpedo without a nuclear reactor (which apparently costs a fortune) using conventional batteries or a steam-gas one


      Can.
      Caliber 65 cm, form factor of a regular "large" torpedo, warhead with an ICBM, the most powerful of the combat ones, guidance by AINS + correction by satellites when surfacing, the smallest electric engine, a small booster battery and RTG, speed 5-6 knots. Depths of movement - 0-50 meters.
      The entire remaining volume in the torpedo hull is ballast tanks to create zero/positive buoyancy.
      And that's it, here's your nuclear doomsday torpedo.
      Cheap and cheerful.

      But you can't make money on a dashboard like this.
      You just don't understand how much money has been spent on Poseidon since 1984.
      There is also a doubling of the number of guided missile ships, for example, in the Baltic Fleet, or, as an option, victory in the North-Eastern Military District in 2022.
      Now the stream is apparently drying up, more money is needed, and now the project is being promoted again, this time in a smart way, without stupid praise.
      1. 0
        13 March 2025 20: 24
        "A large nuclear torpedo" - that certainly sounds reasonable.
        But what if we don’t give up on the idea of ​​a “large, and also high-speed nuclear torpedo”?

        For example, like this: we return to Sakharov's very first idea - a specialized means of destroying ports. We simplify the design as much as possible, reduce the dimensions, the engine is still nuclear, but immediately a straight-through one, with an eye not on range, but on speed. The carrier is an ordinary surface vessel in the operational squadron, the launch is carried out by throwing it overboard with a crane not very far from the US coast, water contamination is not our problem, use only in conditions of unlimited nuclear war. Targets - 5 largest US ports.

        Does such a concept have a right to exist?
        1. +1
          18 March 2025 12: 21
          For example, like this: we return to Sakharov’s very first idea - a specialized means of destroying ports.


          1. How will it get to the ports? Look, for example, at the entry from the Pacific Ocean to Seattle.
          2. Why can't an ICBM port be destroyed? Or an SLBM?
          3. Can you imagine the problems of launching a torpedo weighing 60-100 tons? For example, the depth of the torpedo bag?
  21. +2
    21 February 2025 08: 30
    The supertorpedo or AUV "Poseidon" is a very controversial weapon.

    But it must be, the enemy must understand the inevitability of the response.
    1. 0
      1 March 2025 00: 12
      It obviously does not provide it.
      1. 0
        3 March 2025 10: 16
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It obviously does not provide it.

        Can you calculate the damage to the country from a nuclear torpedo?
        1. 0
          4 March 2025 00: 34
          Yes, it has already been calculated, and a long time ago.
          1. 0
            4 March 2025 08: 07
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Yes, it has already been calculated, and a long time ago.

            Post at least something other than your statement.
            1. 0
              4 March 2025 11: 33
              https://topwar.ru/217774-vskipjatit-posejdonom-okean-net-jeto-fantastika.html

              Follow all the links in the text, read everything to the end, look at the book using the last link, simulate nuclear explosions under different conditions.
  22. +3
    21 February 2025 08: 48
    IMHO, somewhere here there was already an article comparing the performance characteristics of the Poseidon and Burevestnik nuclear missile torpedoes with conventional ones.
    There was a conclusion: that with comparable range and power, conventional missiles and underwater vehicles are much cheaper and, therefore, can be made more numerous. And a single strong explosion loses out to numerous small ones.

    Reminder: an unmanned non-nuclear underwater vehicle from the USA (Boeing, I think) circled the globe 5-10 years ago... Just like a UAV circled...
  23. fiv
    +1
    21 February 2025 10: 35
    It's like discussing what kind of surface the kitchen tables have on ships from Alpha Centauri. Although some people know for sure.
  24. +8
    21 February 2025 10: 41
    First of all, the Poseidon AUV project is ineffective in terms of cost-effectiveness. Presumably, the funds that were and will be spent on the implementation of this project could be used to purchase an additional number of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) placed in highly protected silo launchers (SLBMs) ​​and/or strategic missile submarines (SSBNs) with submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs).

    In simple terms, you can build:
    - or "Khabarovsk" with 6 "Poseidons", capable of hitting only coastal targets and vulnerable to anti-submarine warfare systems,
    - or SSBNs with 16 SLBMs carrying from 96 to 160 warheads, limited in their choice of target only by flight range and practically impossible to intercept.
    6 versus 96. That's the only difference.
    1. -2
      21 February 2025 13: 59
      Well, it depends on how you use it. If, for example, he drags nuclear loaves right now and drops them along the US coast, and at the right hour the nuclear loaves emerge from all sorts of crevices and explode synchronously at the right depth, then the effect will be greater. In skilled hands, even a bolt is a balalaika, but for a bad geostrategist, even a submarine is a hindrance
      1. +3
        21 February 2025 17: 51
        Quote from alexoff
        and at the right hour, the batoni emerge from all sorts of crevices and explode synchronously at the right depth

        Well, yes. And on Fridays they also send me to a restaurant for beer.
        1. 0
          21 February 2025 18: 14
          Well, if you can't think of any other reason why a mini-submarine with unlimited range might be useful, then I have bad news for you.
          1. 0
            4 March 2025 11: 35
            With a limited one, the reactor has a small resource there.
            1. 0
              4 March 2025 12: 15
              I'm very interested, is it possible to get acquainted with the original source?
              1. 0
                4 March 2025 13: 36
                Notes of Captain-1 R. Gusev, head of the UMP of the USSR Navy in the 80s, he changed his last name there and passed it off as fiction, but in fact he stupidly described his participation in the launch of the project, which he personally approved.
                It is dangerous to approach this topic in any other way even now.
                But there is no reason not to believe what he wrote.
  25. +6
    21 February 2025 10: 42
    a nuclear explosion at depth and an underwater earthquake are essentially completely different physical phenomena ... an earthquake causes the seabed to move over tens and even hundreds of kilometers and, as a result, a wave appears in the water column which, when approaching a continent or island, increases its height many times over - it is called a tsunami ... a nuclear explosion in the water column will cause an air bubble to appear there which will rush upward and quickly collapse ... to obtain the tsunami effect, it will be necessary to detonate tens and maybe even hundreds of nuclear devices with a capacity of 20 Mt each ... this is unrealistic and pointless ....
    1. +3
      21 February 2025 18: 12
      I think scientists made the same conclusions back in the 1960s during nuclear tests. In addition, the energy of earthquakes exceeds any of the most powerful nuclear weapons, therefore, in my opinion, this is the most promising weapon. However, I think it is not worth fooling around with this, nature does not like it when monkey-like creatures with a grenade in their hand interfere.
  26. -5
    21 February 2025 12: 05
    Poseidon is not a magic wand, but one of the elements of deterrence. The US does not have this weapon, China does not have strategists yet, and the British and the Franks only have submarines. We need it. In fact, this is the 4th element of deterrence, and we are no longer getting a triad, but something more. It is necessary to deploy it both ways - in hibernation and on boats - this increases stability. Probably, search and even R&D are already underway on the 5th element. Tectonic…
  27. -1
    21 February 2025 12: 38
    A. Mitrofanov decided that he understands submarine carriers of nuclear weapons and made himself look a bit stupid, trying to disclose the topic without having some clear initial data is not a good idea. Since the Security Council of Russia considers it necessary to support this project, it means there is a reason, and it is not for the author to "smart up" about this issue.
    1. -2
      21 February 2025 13: 51
      The Security Council should not be overestimated. From the time of Berezovsky to the DAM, many extremely strange decisions were made there
    2. +2
      21 February 2025 17: 49
      Quote: okean969
      If the Russian Security Council considers it necessary to support this project, then there is a reason

      It's funny. Look at the members of the Security Council. Does the iPhone know anything there?
    3. 0
      1 March 2025 00: 06
      It is not the Security Council that decides there, but an old grandfather who is obsessed with the eldic form of the product.
      But now the project is running out of money, which is why articles will start appearing on the topic.
      To then get to Katyusha and from there to the LPR.
  28. +1
    21 February 2025 13: 37
    The photo from space is relatively fresh in the photo of the UGS "Saam" (Novatek), standing at anchor in the Ara Bay - Bay. To the south, at the base of the bay, is one of the "wasp nests" of the Northern Fleet. It is impossible to build something secretly.
  29. -2
    21 February 2025 13: 48
    Everything that concerns such weapons is classified not even as Top Secret, but as OV. That is, no one knows anything, and those very few people who do know have subscribed for hundreds of years. A mention of "information" from open sources would not even make it into the magazines "Yeralash", "I Want to Know Everything" or the like. As for silo-based ICBMs, their coordinates are known to a potential enemy with an accuracy of up to a meter, and their number has been radically reduced. How much? Look at that same open information, but serious. For example, in the 7th missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces, which previously had 11 missile regiments, now there are only two. If anything, this is from the website of the history of the Strategic Missile Forces. That is, all the silos will be guaranteed to be destroyed even before the Central Command Center understands what needs to be done. There was a missile army of the railway complexes of the Strategic Missile Forces - it was a real headache for the enemy. But all four divisions of this army were liquidated, so the topic of "is there life on Mars" is becoming more and more relevant.
    1. +5
      21 February 2025 15: 33
      Quote: Kasatik
      There was a missile army of the railway complexes of the Strategic Missile Forces - this was a real headache for the enemies.

      Army? 15 missiles is an army?
      5 trains with 3 missiles? army?
      It was a headache not for the enemies, but for the country.
      Letter trains.
      Before the letter, all trains will stop moving for several hours.

      The passage of almost an armored train in front of the letter.
      Ensuring safety at every station, every stop, every crossing, under every bridge, at every siding with switches.
      Thousands of people are being thrown into support.
      and this is only for 5 trains.
      There is simply no secret from the BZhRK movement.
      When he goes along the distance - around him for 300-500 km in all directions - a riot of communication, security, and movement begins.

      And for the BZhRK to be truly dangerous, there would need to be at least 35 trains, with 100 missiles.
      What would happen then?
      The collapse of all freight and passenger transportation - and the death of the state's economy.
      Let's "plug" the circulatory system in your body? How long will you live? 5-6 minutes?

      This is what the BZhRKs you praised were in reality!
      That is why our people agreed to their destruction - the BZhRK, directly and indirectly, is many times more expensive than even the golden Akula TK.
      That's it.
      Here is the reality.
      And not fairy tales...
      1. +2
        21 February 2025 17: 49
        I subscribe to every word
      2. 0
        21 February 2025 18: 07
        Well, this is due to the high wear of the railway track and rails where the BZhRK runs. Hence the conclusion that where the replacement was recently carried out, there it will be. The weight of the cars is very impressive, hence so many problems. And it is a very expensive pleasure, even the Americans refused such a project. Since they could not repeat it, in my opinion it would be better to build a submarine with the same capabilities for this money.
    2. +4
      21 February 2025 15: 54
      Quote: Kasatik
      For example, in the 7th missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces, which previously had 11 missile regiments, there are now only two.

      It is just necessary to clarify that 6 regiments of the division were disbanded back in Soviet times. And two more - in 1993.
      And yes, the division no longer has a silo - for 30 years now it has only had a ground-based missile system.
    3. 0
      26 February 2025 12: 57
      A missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces is now 3-4 regiments. Also auxiliary units. As for the division being 11 regiments, that was in the USSR. A different structure, missiles, numbers, etc. During the Great Patriotic War, the IAP had 40 fighters, now 24. Everything flows, everything changes. Not only in numbers, but also in skill.
  30. -1
    21 February 2025 14: 04
    The Poseidon supertorpedo is not a controversial weapon. Rather, it is unfinished. It needs to be improved. An excellent weapon. There are so many interesting "things" that can be done here. The main thing is to allocate money and use it wisely. I read about the idea of ​​floating underwater torpedoes/missiles with nuclear power plants, which at the right moment can simply emerge from under the water (in the right place). The development of AI plays its role here. P.S. Two options: either we all destroy each other or we live in peace and explore outer space. The second option is more interesting and more promising.
  31. +6
    21 February 2025 14: 10
    I generally agree with M. Klimov on this issue. In addition to the extremely high cost and vulnerability, a significant part of the power of the torpedo itself will go to waste during detonation, since, unlike the air detonation of a nuclear warhead, a water detonation has a limited sector (a maximum of 40% of the impact will fall in the sector on the target, the rest will go to the sides of it. In practice, it will be less than 40%), significant resistance of the environment, which will also waste energy. A lot of energy will go up and down in the environment and will be de facto wasted, which is a solution with a much lower efficiency than from an air detonation above the target or even in the case of a deep detonation in rocks.
    Pollution of the sea is also a very bad idea, that in addition to purely environmental problems, which are probably not so significant in the case of a real "end of the world war" - there will also be threshold problems with use, since the same classic TNW on the INF Treaty can be used more or less locally (at least in theory) without clearly long-term and large-scale consequences (again, at least in theory) - then a nuclear explosion of such a significant charge in the sea will definitely have major consequences, which are already difficult to consider both local and ecologically acceptable.
    In other words, no one will use this weapon in any real conflict, it will lie around in the caches until the very edge, so to speak. And, in this connection, among other things, the question arises about its real usefulness within escalation models. People do not really like the very edge of the edge, but such a thing is located right there, unless a cobalt bomb would be a little further away.

    Regarding the vulnerability of the approach - IMHO, considering the slooooow speeds in the environment (relative to ICBMs, for example, or even the same "Storm Petrel"), as well as progress in detecting submarines and creating autonomous drones, and on top of that, the fact that at such speeds the product will be (like the "Lira" in its time) an unrealistically noisy thing - the question of detecting and destroying such a large, bulky and at the same time vulnerable product is not something fantastic. In fact, NATO ASW will develop in this direction anyway - and they don't give a damn about catching and destroying our submarines or such things.
    If everything is more or less clear with the evolution of submarines, this is the evolution of soundproofing, silent engines, covering materials, compactization - then this product puts a bolt on this logic, whereas, in general, interception upon detection can be carried out by means moving in a much more advantageous environment - in the air, which provides advantages in speed-communication-operability.
    Here I really don’t understand what exactly this entire mega project is all about.
    1. +3
      21 February 2025 18: 02
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Here I really don’t understand what exactly the bet of this entire mega project is on

      You really don't "get it" because, with all your intelligence, forgive me for telling the truth, you are extremely idealistic. And you simply don't see the real motivation of the organized group that seized power and property in Russia. You don't understand the mechanism of their decision-making.
      Here you are trying, as usual, in detail, to analyze this whole "project" from the point of view of reality, but this is already an illusion, you have already fallen into a trap. Because this project has no relation to reality. It has a meaning, and wow what a meaning, but it is completely different.
      1) Billions can be sawed up on such projects, be it Poseidons or drones with Armatas. This is a Klondike, a gold mine. Moreover, the larger and more difficult to verify this project is, the better.
      2) With the help of such "unparalleled" citizens are placed in a virtual reality. Everything is fine in it, Armatas are moving, the connection is digital, Poseidons are being laid down, well, etc. Moreover, the entire "vertical of power" itself is in this virtual reality.
      Let's take our biggest military leaders-patriots Timur Ivanov, Krivoruchko, etc. They laughed at the clowns with noodles on their ears with serious faces, read and spread through the media stories about all these Constellations with Burevestniks. The clowns started arguing about something, and this is possible, but here something doesn't add up. And normal guys calmly got rich, taking money to different hiding places (whoever is smart enough for which one). All is well, the scheme works. And they would be in perfect order, they would still be the biggest patriots, but then an incident happened - the main boss decided to negotiate with the Western bosses so that they would revoke their black mark and organized the SVO. They had to fight and then it turned out that in the real army there is nothing except old Soviet equipment, communications, etc. As a result, the entire gang began to suffer such losses that they had to look for someone to blame.
      So our "chicks of Shoigu's nest" became criminals instead of the biggest patriots. Well, the boys were unlucky, they didn't get lucky.
      1. +2
        21 February 2025 18: 04
        No, that's just simple and clear. I'm just wondering what arguments were put forward for all this feast, because the projects should have been handled by serious scientists who understand the complete nonsense of the idea in the concept.
      2. 0
        22 February 2025 15: 29
        +100500. It's worth signing under every word...
  32. -1
    21 February 2025 16: 48
    Look how many ports there are in Europe and the US, there aren't enough Poseidons for everything. So the idea is good. And ports are the most important thing for the West. England has 70 large ports and 200 small ones.
    1. 0
      21 February 2025 17: 47
      Quote: staer-62
      And ports are the most important thing for the West

      For the West in the "old world" the main thing is the Gulf Stream.
      Kill this current and all those Swedes-Norwegians-British-Danes and maybe even the French will shrink.
      But nuclear weapons won't be enough here (although evaporating the world's oceans would be impressive).
      Here we need to create a chain of islands in the world ocean.
      Declare this as Russian territory and continue until the currents are distorted.
  33. 0
    21 February 2025 17: 44
    But imagine if it doesn’t bang to wash away, but jumps out like a pancake and with a malicious slap scatters a hundred warheads (and very “dirty” ones at that, clogging everything) along the course of its travel?
    Already more interesting.
  34. +4
    21 February 2025 17: 58
    I'm not an expert, of course, but it seems to me that even 100 megatons would be too little for a tsunami. Especially since tests were conducted back in the 1960s, though on mock-ups, and the results were poor.
    But if you provoke tectonic movement where it is most often possible, maybe near California's San Andreas fault, where the Yellowstone volcano wakes up. As in the movie 2012, the explosion of the supervolcano was more powerful than all hydrogen bombs by thousands of times.
  35. 0
    21 February 2025 18: 04
    Andrey. Good evening. A couple of years ago, I once published an article here dedicated to the "Poseidon". Everything is described there in great detail. Here were also my articles dedicated to high- and ultra-high-power nuclear warheads. "Belgorod" with its "Poseidons" has a limited number of targets. I hope there will be more boats of a similar type in our Navy. The targets are four SSBN naval bases and 22 SSBNs. The 100-megaton charge AN601/602 does not exist in metal. Even if it were repeated in metal, which is quite possible, it would not fit into a torpedo: Firstly, the torpedo's warhead weighs only 4500 kg, and product 601 weighs 24 kg, 000 - 602 kg. Secondly, the outer diameter of the products is 21 mm. But the A000 and A2100 products are quite suitable in terms of weight and dimensions, in theory there should be 201 such products in the 202th GUMO (data from Robert Johnston). Their capacity is 12 and 30 Mt, this data is from my article about the "Poseidon". These torpedoes were created exclusively for specific purposes - 20 naval SSBNs (of which two are American, one British and one French) and SSBNs in combat (operational) patrol areas, for nothing else. All these childish fantasies about Tsunamis or fighting AUGs are all nonsense. Here, however, some experts tried to argue with me, even articles with "funny pictures" from Wikipedia came out. Some claimed that the "Poseidons" are vulnerable to depth nuclear bombs and torpedoes. And I have a question - what kind of depth nuclear bombs are these? Maybe B24, the last one was scrapped in August 4. And what torpedoes? Maybe Mk-57? And is it capable of diving to a depth of -1992 meters?, or is it capable of moving at such a depth at a speed of 48 knots? "Belgorod" and its "Poseidons" are an absolute and invulnerable weapon. Such weapons will not appear among competitors, and among allies, well, very soon, if at all.
    1. 0
      1 March 2025 00: 00
      Targets: four SSBN naval bases and 22 SSBNs



      Targets: four SSBN naval bases and 22 SSBNs


      How would a product with its existing control system enter Kitsap-Bangor, for example?
      Where do you get all this anyway?
      And for what?
  36. -1
    21 February 2025 18: 24
    It is almost impossible to detect Poseidon moving at a depth of more than 1 km due to the peculiarities of the propagation of hydro-acoustic signals in sea water: there is a conventional sound propagation channel from 100 m to 1 km, within which the sound spreads far. And when the sound source is within this depth range, serious measures must be taken to avoid giving away your location. And the boundaries of this channel are the so-called jump surfaces, through which vibrations are transmitted nonlinearly, and may not pass at all, but be reflected. The weak point for detecting Poseidon will be sections of the trajectory, in which it will be forced to enter the acoustic corridor, conventionally from 100 to 1000 m depth. But it can be crossed at low speed and noise.
    And the main damaging factor of the Poseidon charge is the radioactive contamination of the area due to the monstrously radioactive base wave, which will make human activity there impossible in the foreseeable future. The range of the radioactive wave depends on the strength and direction of the wind. This imposes restrictions on the use of Poseidon. But the possible zones of destruction extend for a thousand kilometers or more.
    1. 0
      21 February 2025 18: 47
      If you reduce the speed from 200 to 20 knots, then the task of detecting the device will have a completely different level of complexity, for moderate speeds such a heavy power plant is not required and the size of the device can be reduced, which again will affect the stealth and cost of the product, and then if there is an unlimited range, then there is an unlimited time, that is, the device can be launched from the shore for six months or more, then it will return to the base for inspection. Of course, you need a satellite group for communication similar to Starlink and some minimal AI
    2. 0
      1 March 2025 00: 03
      But it can be crossed at low speed and noise.


      1. How can we make sure that tens of tons of metal with negative buoyancy, which are kept afloat by the lifting force on the rudders and the hull, which is a derivative of HIGH speed, do not sink at low speed?
      2. How can we make the product have low noise levels given the tight layout of the product and the resulting impossibility of using cascade damping?
      3. Why are you writing this?
  37. +2
    21 February 2025 20: 41
    The author's extensive reasoning in the absence of any knowledge about the performance characteristics of the product and how to use it.
    A classic example of military bullying.
  38. -1
    21 February 2025 20: 57
    Or maybe those "Poseidons" have been lying on the ground along the US coast for a long time and are waiting for the command "Cloudless skies over all of Washington"?
    1. +4
      21 February 2025 21: 06
      Rather, they lie on paper on the desks of propagandists from the first channels and in the heads of patriots who believe in everything that is told to them on the zombie box.
      1. -1
        21 February 2025 21: 08
        Yeah, just like the cartoonish Crimean Bridge and the supersonic missiles that we send to Kyiv so that it can see for itself that they are real.
        1. +7
          21 February 2025 21: 17
          How inflation is 9% per year, how 70% of new modern equipment in the troops, how 87%, how to take Kyiv in three days, how there will be no mobilization, how victory over terrorists in Syria, how no increase in the retirement age, how a grenade exploded on its own in a plane, how there was no choice so they gave foreign exchange reserves to Western partners, how 1000 planes by 2030
          1. +1
            22 February 2025 08: 51
            "Kyiv in three days" was not promised by the Kremlin. It was the American chief of staff, General Mili, who shared his nightmares.
            1. 0
              28 February 2025 23: 58
              Find "Book Z", there are recollections of those who, according to the plan of the operation, were supposed to enter Kyiv first, including currently public people (I know some of them personally, as well as this whole story).
              It wasn't even three days there.
              Faster.
              1. +1
                1 March 2025 02: 41
                So, there really were columns near Kiev on the third day. And a landing party in Gostomel. But then they retreated. There was no need to raze Kyiv to the ground. The Kiev leadership decided to fight. The West laid them out. And now, three years have passed...
        2. +2
          21 February 2025 21: 30
          How 1000 bandits staged a provocation in the Kursk region, how demilitarization and denazification, how “the blow will be lightning fast”, etc.
  39. Ana
    0
    21 February 2025 21: 15
    The principle of creating uncertainty. This alone makes people with big stars think. As far as I know, at one time, a submarine, a possible carrier of such systems, dove in the North and returned to Gadzhiyevo, having lost many tons. At one time, Sakharov himself was ashamed of this idea, but, à la guerre comme à la guerre. And who knows about the tests? There may be bookmarks off the coast of California, Hawaii. We can determine the launch of a torpedo. But what they did years ago is not very good. Well, I am so within the framework of the general concept. Undeterminability, where from and who is the main thing, when? Yes or no? Anyone will take into account the probability of an undeterminable love
  40. +3
    21 February 2025 22: 36
    Quote: AC130 Ganship
    Cartoons are cartoons.
    But a nuclear thing floating in an unknown place without supervision in the depths of the ocean, which, by the way, could have its keel (or brains) jammed and turn in the opposite direction - that's not very pleasant.

    jamming the keel is the same as sharpening the anchor or losing the keys to the waterway...
  41. +2
    21 February 2025 22: 40
    I read some comments and remembered John McCain in the USA. While he was sitting in the pits in Vietnam, he went nuts. He saw "commis" everywhere and he started talking about nuclear weapons every now and then. It's good that he lost the election at the time.
  42. 0
    21 February 2025 23: 16
    Tsunamis are beautiful and the public likes them, but in fact this thing is about explosions in ports and places where ships congregate.
  43. +1
    21 February 2025 23: 30
    Quote: Hitriy Zhuk
    Quote: AC130 Ganship
    or brains

    Double-triple dubbing is already a classic.
    I think the keel of such things is not simple either.

    Chernobyl didn't float anywhere, didn't dive and stood still. I, the duty group of engineers, sat and watched 24/7
  44. +2
    21 February 2025 23: 32
    Quote: Nord11
    Yeah, just like the cartoonish Crimean Bridge and the supersonic missiles that we send to Kyiv so that it can see for itself that they are real.

    The bridge is beautiful and necessary. But there are much longer bridges. There is nothing unique about it.
  45. 0
    22 February 2025 12: 02
    A simple mathematical calculation shows that, for example, if the wave height is 300 meters per meter, the wave drops by 1 meter. As a result, after 300 meters the wave will end at zero. Ineffective. winked
  46. 0
    22 February 2025 12: 06
    Is there a "Boy"?
  47. -2
    22 February 2025 15: 37
    Regarding nuclear weapons. Let's imagine the scale of using one average warhead. This is an area with a diameter of 5 square kilometers. Now let's see what area of ​​London is in square kilometers. It is 1580 square kilometers and 5 square kilometers. You get a sense of the scale. And someone said that one nuclear explosion is enough to destroy Europe. Therefore, Poseidons and everything else will not be superfluous and we need more, and most importantly, a president who would have more pity on his citizens than on European ones and would use nuclear weapons without waiting for the occupation of the country and mass murder of Russian children, rape and torture of Russian citizens by European countries on Russian territory.
  48. +2
    22 February 2025 18: 20
    Why are you arguing here? We won't find out anything anyway.
    P.S. Belgorod has already laid eggs.
    1. +1
      28 February 2025 23: 56
      we won't find out anything anyway.


      speak for yourself

      P.S. Belgorod has already laid eggs.


      You are not a good fairy tale maker.
  49. -1
    22 February 2025 19: 12
    I have read all of THIS technical and ideological "nonsense" (especially in the comments) and will try to present my "vision" of the "Poseidon" problem briefly and to the point: I admit that this "Poseidon" "throw-in" was reprinted "with gusto" on the pages of the respected publication "VO" and by them, "with gusto", from a certain author - Andrey Mitrofanov, not "out of malice" towards the achievements of the domestic military-industrial complex and the Head of State, but simply out of a strange misunderstanding that the enemy collects all, I repeat, ALL information on domestic weapons from all Russian and "foreign" media, especially those in which they "puff up" about the races, "once upon a time, carriers of certain classified information, provoked by some employees of the TsIPSO Ukroreikh, in order to "raise the "degree" of discussion and more frank written statements.... It's a pity that some authors "can't see the forest for the trees".... I want remind that there is a big war going on in which Russia is participating...
  50. -2
    22 February 2025 21: 30
    Poseidon is a weapon of the last breath, when Russia will be destroyed by nuclear weapons. This means that there are no restrictions imposed on Poseidon. It follows that the damage inflicted on the enemy and its satellites must be maximum and deadly. Poseidon must have the most powerful nuclear charge, maybe 100 megatons, or maybe 1000 megatons, whatever it is. The average ocean depth is 4 km, which means the operating depth of Poseidon should be 5 km, but not 1 km. The issues of detection and stealth are a topic for the target audience, there is no point in discussing it here. NATO has long had similar devices for striking ports and cities on the coast. Russia has few such ports and cities compared to the USA, Great Britain, France.
    Does Poseidon have a chance?
    Yes, there is a big one.
    It is impossible to stop a school, a flock of Poseidons.
  51. +3
    23 February 2025 02: 10
    A pinpoint underwater explosion does not create any tsunami waves. It creates a "Blur!" A big explosion is just a big "blur." It will throw megatons of water into the sky, which will settle back down as water dust. If it is at a great depth, it will create a large steam-gas bubble underwater, which will then collapse back. And that's all. These experiments have been conducted. Including with nuclear weapons.
    To create a tsunami, you don’t need to blow something up at one point, but rather raise or lower a large area (hundreds of square kilometers) of the seabed by several meters, thereby displacing the water.

    P.S.: It was not Sakharov who proposed the nuclear torpedo (it was called T-15). It was proposed as an idea by academician M.A. Lavrentyev, and the work on creating the warhead was supervised by academician Yu.B. Khariton.
  52. +1
    23 February 2025 09: 45
    when academician Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov proposed using a supertorpedo with a ramjet water-steam nuclear jet engine............... he is a mathematician, not a theorist, who can't forget him and drags him along.....?
  53. -1
    23 February 2025 13: 46
    Why did they like and still like to keep everything secret in the USSR??? Like, there is SOOOOOOOTHING that we, the common people, don't know? And we, the plebeians, aren't supposed to know. But there, in the Kremlin, they know everything. To hide the next failure (and embezzlement) from their own people. Only for this.
  54. -1
    23 February 2025 20: 15
    10 megatons. 100 megatons.
    Why is everyone so fixated on the fact that the charge will be directly on Poseidon?
    The most logical is a missile like Zircon as a warhead. 1-5 megaton special ammunition. The most difficult thing is to provide guidance in a world full of consequences of many explosions.
  55. +1
    28 February 2025 23: 53
    Thus, the Poseidon AUVs are stored in rock shelters in transport and launch containers (TLC), where routine maintenance and technical service are carried out in complete safety and relatively comfortable conditions.

    The exit from the rock shelter can be carried out by self-propelled means into open water, or, alternatively, the TPK can be equipped with an underwater propulsion system with a limited range and control via fiber optic cable.


    Read something about the torpedo bag and estimate its depth for a torpedo that is carried on a six-axle railway car (a two-ton ordinary torpedo can easily catch a 20-meter gap when leaving the TA)
    1. 0
      1 March 2025 09: 13
      Regarding negative buoyancy, the device is supposedly twice as heavy as water, if this is true then it needs hydrofoils to create lift
  56. Rtu
    0
    2 March 2025 21: 31
    I understand that the time has come to simply test this torpedo in full gear. Otherwise, those who have gone crazy from impunity will not be appeased. At least test it somewhere in the ocean.
  57. 0
    April 30 2025 09: 34
    I am not an expert, but the best solution would be to create small-sized ICBMs with a launch weight of about 15 tons and with a light single-block nuclear warhead, which would be based on a wheeled platform disguised as ordinary trucks. It is practically impossible to track them across the vast expanses of the country, the costs would be many times less than the controversial Status, and the complex can be created quite quickly.