Ukraine at a Crossroads, or the Untrodden Path of Military Dictatorship?

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Ukraine at a Crossroads, or the Untrodden Path of Military Dictatorship?


Armed Forces of Ukraine – demobilization – Russia?


At the end of the year before last, in the article “Thoughts about the future: will Ukrainian Armed Forces veterans go to work in Russia?" I wrote about the probable prospect of migration of a significant portion of the military personnel demobilized from the Ukrainian army to our country after the end of the Second World War.

And where else would they, relatively young and relatively healthy, go? I won't put a question mark, because the answer is obvious. In Europe, the number of jobs is limited, and those who could have already left.



Accordingly, after the end of military operations, emigration from Ukraine to Europe is unlikely to become large-scale, as is the incorporation of veterans into foreign PMCs, since the nature of the tasks they perform requires a set of specific knowledge and skills that are not available to everyone.


Where will these veterans, clearly tired of the war, go after demobilization?

In addition, an army staffed by conscripts does not generally have high qualities in terms of individual fighter training, at least not those required to carry out special operations in the natural and climatic conditions of Africa or the Middle East.

Staying home? No solution, because the Ukrainian economy is destroyed. Brussels and Washington are not interested in its restoration, believing since the 1990s that the economy east of the Oder should be based on raw materials.

So Russia remains as the only prospect for the majority of demobilized citizens of the neighboring country to find work and feed themselves and their families.

Migrants with post-traumatic stress disorder


Of course, this will worsen the criminal and overall psychological situation in our country, exacerbating the problem associated with migrants.

And it is naive to believe that young and not so young people with a war-damaged psyche, post-traumatic syndrome, who see Russia as an existential enemy, will hide their attitude towards us, especially when drunk, just as I think there will be those who will try to use the veterans’ skills and abilities, albeit limited, and their readiness to kill, for illegal purposes.

It cannot be ruled out that after the end of the Second World War, the Ukrainian citizens who came to us to earn money will not form something like enclaves in Russia, similar to the Albanian ones in Europe.


There are already enough Ukrainian emigrants in Europe, they are unlikely to expect new ones

In general, the problem of coexistence of a refined urbanized society, for which, say, the disconnection of the Internet is a real psychological stress and a reason for depression, with compatriots who have gone through the SVO, is already on the agenda. And then yesterday's opponents with, perhaps, an undestroyed Bandera worldview may also appear nearby.

Military reform with a political focus


A bad prospect for us, you must agree. However, if not the leveling, then the reduction of the mentioned risks, I see in the reform declared by Kiev, connected with the transition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to a corps organizational and staff structure.

It seems that its main goal is not to make operations at the front more large-scale through the reforms being carried out – in light of the enemy’s significant losses in manpower and the lack of prospects for him to regain the strategic initiative, this is unlikely to happen.

Plus the problem of growth: the reorganization of headquarters and the overall command system, associated with the transition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from a brigade to a corps structure, will probably be accompanied by failures in the command of troops. And this is in the context of the strategic initiative of the Russian army.

A possible counterargument: local counterattacks by the enemy in the Kursk direction during the transition to a corps structure will lead to a larger-scale nature of his operations, so the reform is justified precisely in military terms.

In my opinion, the operations there are more subordinated to propaganda goals, calculated for external effect – both inside Ukraine and beyond its western borders – and do not have significant military significance, especially in conditions when the units participating in them are needed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces command in other areas.

Then why did Army General A.S. Syrsky decide to carry out this reform now – in such an unfavorable period from a military point of view? I have only one answer: to increase the army's weight in the political processes unfolding in Ukraine.

It is interesting that independent participation of the Armed Forces in politics is not typical for the post-Soviet space, if we do not count the series of speeches of Colonel M.T. Khudoyberdyev in Tajikistan at the end of the last century.


A former Soviet officer who fought in Afghanistan and later used the armed forces of the mujahideen to his advantage, Colonel Khudoyberdyev is the only one in the post-Soviet stories an example of a mutiny organized and led by a career military man, who relied on army units loyal to him

It is wrong to call the story with Major General D.M. Dudayev a military coup, since at the time of the seizure of power in Chechnya he was not in active service. Sometimes the performance of E.V. Prigozhin is called a military mutiny, but the latter was not a career military man.

And in the USSR, as well as in the Russian Empire of the post-Decembrist period, the command staff was traditionally apolitical – the exception being the mutiny of Captain 3rd Rank V.M. Sablin in 1975. The speculations about a conspiracy by Marshal M.N. Tukhachevsky or the political ambitions of Marshal G.K. Zhukov have no documentary basis.

However, nothing lasts forever under the moon, and Ukraine may become the first post-Soviet state where a high-ranking military leader, not after demobilization and changing his uniform for a suit, like Lieutenant General A.I. Lebed, has come to power, but specifically as a spokesman for the interests of the army as an independent force and for the sake of saving the state, albeit in a truncated form, because of all those, Syrsky, who fought in Donbass in 2014, understands the impossibility of returning this region, as well as Crimea, by force.


A dark horse in the Ukrainian political firmament?

It is not for nothing that the reform is timed, apparently, to coincide with the beginning of the Russian-American negotiations. And will Syrsky, if not take an unofficial part in them, then at least position himself as a person who has power behind him, and it will have to be taken into account in the process of peaceful settlement of the conflict. In the end, it is the Armed Forces of Ukraine that will ensure order in Ukraine after the end of the active phase of military actions.

It is possible that the reform is intended to introduce into politics also trench generals and front-line officers, among whom Syrsky has enough supporters.

In general, the strengthening of the army's role during a period of instability in the country is not something extraordinary. In his recent article,The Overthrow of Mohammed Daoud, or A Step into the Abyss"In the context of the difficult twists and turns of Afghan-Pakistani relations, I mentioned Dawood's talks with M. Zia-ul-Haq. Both generals came to power through a military coup in conditions when their countries were being torn apart by a whole range of problems and the government was unable to resolve them.

The same Zia ul Haq seized power after Pakistan's heavy defeat during the third war with India, which led to the loss of the Eastern Province and the formation of Bangladesh.

And I believe that in the context of the thoughts presented here, the esteemed readers remembered Captain General A. Pinochet. We are not talking about the methods of the dictator, but about the crisis phenomena in the Chilean economy under President S. Allende, which led not least to the military coup. Yes, G. Kissinger played a role in it, but the socio-economic factor should also be taken into account.

Will Syrsky follow in Franco's footsteps?


The modern history of Europe also shows examples when the army, in conditions of a severe internal crisis of the state, threatening it with social upheavals that could lead to collapse, took power into its own hands.

Perhaps the most striking example here is Spain in the first half of the last century. The loss of colonies in the 1808th century, defeat in the war with the USA at its end, interethnic contradictions in the form of the Catalan problem, unconquered vestiges of feudalism, a backward economy turned the kingdom into almost a rudiment of the past, which also died twice - in 1823 and XNUMX, and was only brought back to life by the will of the Holy Alliance.

In such a situation, the army took power into its own hands, and even before the Francoist rebellion, Lieutenant Generals M. Primo de Rivera and J. Sanjurjo had unsuccessfully attempted to do so.

One of the catalysts for the military's revolt was the failures of the Rif War with the Berbers, who were much worse armed and trained than the Spanish, and whose leader, Abd al-Karim, had no military training at all. In fact, Spain only managed to deal with the rebels after France came out on its side. In this situation, the military realized that it was impossible to live like this, and took power into their own hands.

In the same vein, but in less severe socio-economic conditions and with different details, is the May 1926 coup by J. Pilsudski in Poland. Yes, six years earlier, during the Battle of the Vistula, the country had defended its independence, but Warsaw's geopolitical project to revive the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth after the loss of Kyiv and the lower reaches of the Dnieper in the summer of 1920 had collapsed.

And since Poland has been mentioned: war produces a kind of selection of command personnel and promotes the youngest, most ambitious, and most capable to command positions. The events of 1920 contributed to the political career in Poland of the future Marshal E. Rydz-Smigly, who was unable to handle the burden of leading the Armed Forces and governing the country in general, including in the international arena, which, in fact, Pilsudski warned about. However, in 1920 he showed himself well and deservedly advanced to the ranks of the Polish military elite.


De Gaulle is the leader of the army and the nation to which he restored greatness

The First World War launched the career of the young officer Charles de Gaulle, who later achieved his political goals at the head of the army – we are talking about August 1944, when the general headed the government of France.

The main beneficiaries of the conflict


In the article "Kennan as an Unheard Prophet, or Why Trump Was Late» I wrote about the interest of the 47th US President to end the conflict in Ukraine as soon as possible in order to implement geopolitical tasks in the Asia-Pacific region, the importance of which was declared by the Obama administration. The then Secretary of State H. Clinton, speaking in the distant 2011 at the APEC summit in Honolulu, declared the advent of the "Pacific century for America".

Accordingly, Trump, especially against the backdrop of worsening relations with China, does not need the Ukrainian Armed Forces to step up their actions in the Kursk region, just as he does not need to continue the war.

Then who benefits from operations on temporarily occupied Russian territory that grind up not the worst units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and have no strategic consequences for them?

First of all, Great Britain, which seems to be becoming the main beneficiary of the conflict.

This should hardly be surprising in the context of London’s declared return to the ranks of world leaders – the project was presented in the Memorandum of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, published in March 2018. I wrote about the prospects for implementing this strategy a year ago, only in the context of other events: “Britain Returns to the Great Game: Knocking on India's Gate».

Seven years is a short period for the implementation of a global project. In addition, support for the Zelensky regime looks quite logical in the context of London's geopolitical interests in the Transcaucasus.

The other hand, supporting Zelensky and throwing logs on the fire of war, belongs to France, which since the 1648th century has considered Eastern Europe as its sphere of interests, forming an anti-Habsburg crescent from Sweden, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Ottoman Empire, and later trying to squeeze, together with Russia, the German Empire, which was completely superfluous in Europe, born in the defeated Versailles – superfluous, since it was destroying the system of checks and balances formed back in Westphalia in XNUMX.

Note: The Congress of Vienna returned France to the ranks of the great powers, while Germany, a little over a century later, was attempted to be pushed out of their ranks, and when it became clear that this would not work, the Third Republic hastily put together the Little Entente.

And now Ukraine. Macron does not hide his interest in its resources, especially against the backdrop of the economic crisis his country is experiencing, caused, among other things, by France's significant national debt, for which its current president himself is to blame.


Unlike Macron, the great de Gaulle wanted to see Europe united from Lisbon to Vladivostok, and not limit its borders to Kiev

Accordingly, London and Paris are betting on Zelensky. But Washington and Moscow? Perhaps on Syrsky, provided he ends the war and Ukraine's neutral status.

On the threshold of tomorrow


As an assumption: understanding that military defeat is inevitable, and the front-line officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces understand this better than anyone else in Ukraine, Syrsky is trying to rely on the army as the only instrument for preserving the integrity of the country, albeit, I repeat, in a truncated form. And then the current reform of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, called upon to solve internal problems, is very opportune.

However, Zelensky and the UK and France that stand behind him will not agree to this. The maximum for them is a truce according to the Korean scenario. That is, exhausting artillery duels along the demarcation line, sabotage and reconnaissance groups in the rear and an increased burden on the budget with an overstrained economy. And behind them - we are talking about the officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - a destroyed country in which they have relatives. Wouldn't it be better to take power into their own hands, make peace and begin to restore the state?

Accordingly, a military coup is perhaps the only way to save Ukraine and stop the bloodshed that is so detrimental to it. Another way is for Zelensky to peacefully transfer power to the military.

And if the commander-in-chief or any of the high-ranking military leaders of the Ukrainian Armed Forces decides to seize power, then who knows, maybe he will take steps following the example of Franco or Pinochet, aimed at reviving the Ukrainian economy, which is unthinkable without creating jobs and normalizing relations with Russia, as well as developing them with China, because only they are interested in restoring stability in Ukraine and in its citizens working for the benefit of their country in its vast expanses, and not here with us. Beijing can also help with investments, but only on the condition of stability and lasting peace.

And yes, Syrsky is an enemy today. And what about tomorrow? We will have to build new relations with Ukraine, and it is better to do this in a dialogue with those who have real power, which is unthinkable without the support of its bearer on the army.
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  1. 12+
    19 February 2025 04: 04
    How is it that "in the USSR the army was apolitical"? What nonsense? Each company had a deputy POLITICAL.
    And on election day, the sergeant major led us all in formation to vote in the red corner. Our entire platoon (30 people) voted for our platoon leader. But they chose "Blotter" from the neighboring platoon. Zero votes against, with 8 abstentions. That's how we - 19-year-old boys - learned the truth about democracy and fair elections in the USSR.
    1. +9
      19 February 2025 07: 16
      How is it that "in the USSR the army was apolitical"? What nonsense? Each company had a deputy POLITICAL
      The army had no political ambitions of its own and was not a separate unit from the state. The army was one with the state and was controlled by it. The Soviet army differed from the Bolivian army, which had about two hundred military coups throughout its history, in that it always followed the policy of its state, and did not hatch plans to overthrow the government.
      1. +2
        19 February 2025 07: 28
        Answered for me. Thank you. I completely agree. I think that even Colonel Khudoyberdyev, whom I mentioned in the article, did not have any clear political goals, not to mention a reform program.
        1. 0
          20 February 2025 08: 07
          Yes, they have already begun to forget - Lev Yakovlevich Rokhlin.
          Rokhlin is considered one of the most active opposition leaders of 1997-1998. The magazine "Russian Reporter" claimed, citing Rokhlin's colleagues and friends, that the general was plotting to overthrow President Boris Yeltsin and establish a military dictatorship.

          According to Lev Rokhlin's daughter Elena,

          "The man was removed because he had the opportunity to carry out a military coup. And he was going to carry it out for the sake of the people. He stood for democracy. When he came and saw in the State Duma how extensive this theft and privatization was... Information was coming to him from all sides. From former KGB agents. From everywhere. And at the same time, he saw enormous trust from the people, various political figures, scientists. He saw no other way out. And now the same situation is brewing again.
      2. 0
        19 February 2025 16: 09
        Well, we also had General Makashov. And in the tsarist army - Kornilov.
        1. 0
          19 February 2025 22: 56
          And who did retired (!) General Albert Makashov want to overthrow? Together with retired General Rutskoi. And civilian Khasbulatov.
          Yeltsin, who usurped power?
          Or did Yeltsin decide to take power away from the Supreme Council, which established the post of President of Russia?
          I think it’s more likely the second, it’s just that Yeltsin won, even though it was a coup and a short-lived civil war.
          Retired General Rokhlin also wanted to overthrow Yeltsin and turn to the path we are forced to take now.
          Retired Colonel Kvachkov wanted to eliminate the "globalist overseer" Chubais.
          Frankly, it's a shame that they failed, but I want to point out that these were not active military leaders commanding real troops, they were all private individuals trying to play politics.
          1. 0
            23 February 2025 19: 47
            Quote: faterdom
            Frankly, it's a shame that they failed, but I want to point out that these were not active military leaders commanding real troops, they were all private individuals trying to play politics.

            In the USSR or Russia, coups are not carried out by the army, but by state security. This is how Trotsky, Kaminsky, Beria, the anti-party group, Khrushchev, Gorbachev were overthrown, the Supreme Soviet was dispersed. It was all about what the Alpha group would do: sabotage the orders in 1991 or take the initiative in 1993 (although Vympel and Vityaz were active then). When Ukraine and Moldova separated, the special and KGB officers blocked all attempts at organized protest in the bud.
    2. +2
      19 February 2025 07: 29
      What does the political officer and the red corner have to do with it?
      1. +1
        20 February 2025 09: 07
        Apparently they were choosing a company commander.
  2. 19+
    19 February 2025 04: 14
    We should have thought about all this before the conflict started, but now it's too late to drink Borjomi. What can we offer Ukraine? If we could, there wouldn't be this whole conflict, and there would be nationalists who would shout their Bandera slogans, but no one would listen to them. And coupled with a strong economy and a high standard of living, Ukraine would beg us to seize it, and they would join us. But since, no matter how you look at it, we can't give them anything, nationalism? Ours is the same as theirs, exchanging the great Ukrainians for the super ethnic group of the Rus from ancient Olympus is stupid, we ourselves don't have socialism, and ordinary people are no longer interested in rotten capitalism. Therefore, the most likely option in this case is a hostile state, with a corresponding ideology, we lived poorly, and the Russians came and bombed the only toilet, so they are to blame for everything that we live poorly, an ideal card for the future government of Ukraine, they are actively using it now, a cat gave birth to kittens, this is ...... guilty. Although this is a well-known song for capitalists, in America they shout about all social problems because of the Russians, here they shout all the USA, the dollar and NATO, and otherwise we would live like in Monaco. Noodles are good, but it's a pity only on the ears, and you can't put them in a saucepan.
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 05: 19
      Syrsky is trying to rely on the army as the only instrument for preserving the integrity of the country
      Maybe so, maybe not!
      1. -1
        19 February 2025 07: 37
        Maybe not necessarily Syrsky, but also one of the trench generals. Remember how the legions proclaimed commanders emperors during the empire's crisis? Or if we abstract from Rome and take the Afghan option and field assignments as an example; however, the state collapsed there. This is not an option for Ukraine, and for us too.
        1. 0
          19 February 2025 08: 48
          Quote: Igor Khodakov
          Remember how the legions, during the crisis of the empire, proclaimed their commanders emperors?

          only Rome was independent from others, but in the case of Kiev - it's a completely different story... in essence - whoever external forces support, that's who will be... if necessary, they'll push through Gonochenko too... laughing
        2. -1
          19 February 2025 15: 54
          It may not necessarily be Syrsky, but also one of the trench generals.

          hi
          In my opinion, in your analysis in the article you completely ignore the factors of the SBU and ideology. It is from here that we need to dig, because in essence the SBU has outplayed everyone in many ways - both regarding agreements, and regarding digital images, and compromising materials, and preemptive work. So it will definitely not work to puppeteer the promotion of any candidates to power without the knowledge of the SBU. Whoever runs the SBU behind the scenes gets the slippers! And isn't it Great Britain? Until all the forces destructive for the Russian Federation are cut off, waiting for the weather by the sea or even acting in any way is ineffective - a special battering ram is needed, like an antibiotic!
          In terms of ideology, there is again a huge mental gap that has emerged over the long years of preparation for the 404th, starting in 2014, and in fact much earlier. The locals there can hope that suddenly a competent warrior, tired of what is happening, will come - (a patriot?) let it be in the style of Hugo Chavez, who will go for adequate compromises, and where necessary, defend the interests of the country (the 404th). But the Russian Federation certainly does not have any good in store for it here. Unless suddenly, as a result of the agreements, a leader comes who will smoothly reduce the intensity of passions over the years and reduce the mental gap to an acceptable level and will not allow the territory remaining from the 404th to pose a threat to the Russian Federation (oh, it is hard to believe even hypothetically, besides, any positive picture for the Russian Federation will serve as another signal to action for the current beneficiaries of what is happening, and they will never stop acting).

          If only you could describe a probable scenario of your vision for the promotion of a candidate and the subsequent steps and consequences. hi
        3. +2
          19 February 2025 16: 08
          You have some idealized ideas. Whoever the West puts in the "servant of the people" chair, that's who it will be. The "trench generals" there are the same thieves as the "deputies"
    2. -1
      19 February 2025 07: 34
      "What can we offer Ukraine? If we could, there would be no conflict." Yes, this is a problem. And not only Ukraine can be cited as an example, but also Azerbaijan, which is oriented toward the Turks, Turkmenistan toward China, Armenia, which is increasingly oriented toward France, multi-vector Kazakhstan (under Nazarbayev, toward Great Britain, now increasingly toward the USA), etc. In this regard, the SVO is a kind of forced step.
    3. 10+
      19 February 2025 07: 43
      Quote from turembo
      Therefore, the most likely option in this case is a hostile state.
      It cannot be different if the remaining Ukraine is not demilitarized and denazified, as was stated in the goals of the beginning of the SVO, and this would be possible only with the complete and unconditional capitulation of Ukraine, as, in its time, Nazi Germany. Negotiations with the Americans already put an end to this, the very fact of negotiations already implies, at a minimum, a compromise, where, in the best case, the transfer of those territories to Russia that were taken over during the SVO will be declared a victory. Everything, Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov and Kyiv itself, will then remain with the enemy, precisely the enemy, with a thirst for revenge. Will this suit us, or does anyone believe that Trump will give us all the territories that are critically important for Russia?
      "Pinochet" in Ukraine, and maybe also "Caesar" in Russia? This is also an option in which Ukraine will have something to offer. It is clear that such a "Caesar" is not in sight yet, but who knows how the trick will fall, especially with the prospect of a new, even more terrible war with an enemy that has not been finished off.
    4. 0
      19 February 2025 08: 43
      What can we offer Ukraine?

      For a long time they were offered a lot of things. A customs union, preferential credit for the economy, and so on and so forth. Only people came to power who:
      1) They believed it was true that "Ukraine is not Russia"
      2) They lived only on short-term benefits from bribes and theft.
      3) Descendants of the "forest brothers" and Bandera.
      They planted their idea, poured it into everyone's ears. Russia can offer them a lot of things even now.
      And finally, the protests against socialism in favor of capitalism began with Ukrainian miners. I think the idea of ​​socialism no longer appeals to them.
      1. +6
        19 February 2025 08: 51
        Quote: a.shlidt
        For a long time they were offered a lot of things: a customs union, preferential credit for the economy, and so on and so forth.

        The question here is not what we can offer at all, but what we can offer better than the West, for the common man.
        1. +2
          19 February 2025 09: 08
          The entire Ukrainian industry was tied to Russia. And that meant jobs and salaries. These were city-forming enterprises. The tourism sector and the development of the agro-industrial complex. Russian, not European, prices for gas and oil. And what did the West offer Ukraine? When Rosatom offered a sarcophagus for the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant for pennies, they chose the French for fabulous money, receiving multi-million dollar kickbacks from them into their personal accounts. The West offered a lot of things, but not to an ordinary person, but to those in power personally.
          1. +4
            19 February 2025 09: 11
            Quote: a.shlidt
            The entire Ukrainian industry was tied to Russia. And that meant work and wages. These were city-forming enterprises. The tourism sector and the development of the agro-industrial complex. Russian, not European, prices for gas and oil.

            We've been giving them all this for 30 years, but somehow their lives haven't improved much - isn't that so? It sounds familiar, doesn't it - "now the capital will come and we'll start living"? Ordinary people simply don't believe in the state and in the "bright future", but you can earn a head higher in the EU and live more or less normally today, and not in some mythical bright future... I was talking about this...
            1. -2
              19 February 2025 09: 25
              For 30 years they were robbed and oppressed. Even what we gave did not reach the people, but settled in their pockets along the way. Maidan did not arise out of nowhere and people came to it from all over Ukraine to change this. Yes, at first it was students - liberals who dreamed of Gayropa. But then people from Donbass, Kharkov and Crimea came. Because they were fed up with high prices, broken roads and earnings in another country. The idea of ​​​​bringing order to their country was the idea of ​​​​most of those who were on Maidan. Only the European dream was promoted, but not the Ukrainian one. From the same Kremenchug to St. Petersburg and Kaluga they went to work in 2012-2013, and also earned 1200 - 1700 USD. I personally knew these people. But this is empty. It seems that if they are given acceptable conditions, they will not go anywhere to earn money. They will work at home.
              1. +6
                19 February 2025 11: 44
                Yeah, yeah, but a good Russian capitalist will come and they won’t be robbed and oppressed, right? laughing
                1. -3
                  19 February 2025 11: 54
                  Unfortunately, there are no other options. And by the way, I was in Crimea in 2010. The sight was depressing. Russian capitalism came and I went there in 2017. The difference is colossal and for the better.
                  1. +6
                    19 February 2025 12: 07
                    It was not Russian capitalism that came there, or rather a capitalist, but money from the budget of the Russian Federation - that is, my taxes, yours, his, and they began to "stick together" another "showcase", as it was with Chechnya "suffering from the war", while no one else would have thought of anything else, after all, it is a Republic, no matter how you look at it, even if it is autonomous. But we will not be able to pull off any more "showcases", our belly buttons will come undone. And the "comrades" capitalists need profit and to have as few expenses as possible. Or do you think that one "honored hero of capital labor" built one bridge, which, as practice has shown, was obviously built from guano and sticks, with his own hard-earned money?
                    1. 0
                      19 February 2025 12: 27
                      Came there

                      But does it matter to the average Ukrainian who came when his life will improve?
                      one bridge, which, as practice has shown, is obviously built of guano and sticks,

                      I drove on this bridge. It's a wonderful road. I don't understand your skepticism at all.
                      1. +2
                        19 February 2025 13: 19
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        But does it matter to the average Ukrainian who came when his life will improve?
                        what do you think - life will improve? if the choice is between roads, beautiful lawns and a good income, then 90% of people will choose a normal income, and not beautiful lawns... for me - life has improved, first of all, if my purchasing power has grown, figuratively speaking.. and it does not grow from beautiful lawns (made with state money by the "right" companies)... but it grows at least from new factories, which ones have opened in Crimea since 2014? and at a normal level, and not for the production of aerated concrete with a staff of 30 people... and actually there is no point in arguing that the level of earnings of "shift workers" is higher in the EU.. the article is about workers from the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Russian Federation..
                      2. 0
                        19 February 2025 13: 39
                        The vineyards were given a new lease of life, and Crimean wines are in large quantities on our market. Zaliv and Fiolet earned at least somehow. Money was poured into them. Excellent logistics routes were opened, thus small entrepreneurs were able to start trading in large volumes and accordingly expand production. This is only what I know, because I saw it with my own eyes.
                        and at a normal level, and not for the production of aerated concrete with a staff of 30 people...

                        What's wrong with a small enterprise with 30 employees if there are many such enterprises and their products are in demand? For example, a bakery or a small slaughterhouse producing minced meat and sausages.
                      3. +1
                        19 February 2025 13: 57
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        The vineyards were given a new lease of life, and Crimean wines are in large quantities on our market. Zaliv and Fiolet earned at least somehow. Money was poured into them. Excellent logistics routes were opened, thus small individual entrepreneurs were able to start trading in large volumes and accordingly expand production.

                        You gave the facts, now I give the facts. hi the vineyards were growing anyway, and the wine was several times cheaper, "Zaliv" doesn't really work despite the "super-infusions", small individual entrepreneurs are "deep in the ravine" these days, Magnits and Ozons have captured everything (and not only in Crimea).. and 30 people is a workshop, not a factory, for a city of even 10 thousand people it's such a "factory" - what is there, what isn't... Crimea has become more beautiful - a fact.. is it better to live? not a fact.. of course, unless you are in the civil service or a developer or earn money from vacationers..
                        Actually, that's not what the article was talking about... Now, how will all the Ukrainians rush to Crimea - instead of the EU, for their salaries? No? Why not? Because salaries haven't grown much and they are as far from the Polish strawberry salary of 150-200 thousand rubles in our country as they are from China? That's what I'm talking about.. If our countrywide salary was 150 thousand rubles (like in Poland, ON STRAWBERRY, Karl), then, except for the Balts, everyone else would have already joined the Russian Federation and restored the USSR... but they don't want to.. I wonder why you are still surprised that people choose where it's better and more satisfying for them?
                      4. -1
                        19 February 2025 14: 19
                        I agree that the vineyards grew, but they were transformed and now they are on the shelves in large quantities. The products are bought and the company makes a profit. The output is higher than under Ukraine. As well as jobs. Zaliv is now mainly repairing what is already being repaired. But it is not worth it, as in the same 2010. It seems that they even started to launch something. As for ozone and magnet - these are retailers. Trading platforms, but not production ones. Anyone can trade on them. Or rather, they can, because you need to meet a number of requirements. Regarding Polish strawberries. I had difficulties 15 years ago and I grabbed any part-time job. And I earned extra money harvesting. Then in two weeks I earned 40 thousand rubles, but also a completely broken back. About $ 900 at that time. I am sure that now they earn the same way harvesting.
                        Why does this still surprise you?

                        Probably because I work as a foreman in a small warehouse with a salary of 120 thousand rubles. And my workers, under certain conditions, sometimes earn more than me. And they are not on shift, they live nearby. But at work we leave all our strength to earn money.
                      5. +3
                        19 February 2025 14: 34
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        Probably because I work as a foreman in a small warehouse with a salary of 120 thousand rubles. And my workers, under certain conditions, sometimes earn more than me. And they are not on shift, they live nearby. But at work we leave all our strength to earn money.

                        I also earn a normal salary, but for us in Stavropol - 120 thousand, this is a very good salary (the regional minister has that much - not every month), a classmate in Moscow lives - 140, in a normal place and says - for Moscow this is not a bad salary.. You measure everyone by yourself, Alexander, which is normal, but does not give a clear assessment of the situation, since your income is significantly above average - naturally you like everything.. but you are in a clear minority, today - understand.. I am also above average, but at work I communicate a lot with people, so I am "closer" to the common man and see how he lives..
                        as for
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        Trading platforms, but not production ones. Anyone can trade there.

                        it's not easy at all these days, if you're not trading exclusively, often "Retailer" has retail, like individual entrepreneurs have wholesale, so it's hard for individual entrepreneurs to pull through there, I know a couple - they pull through grey imports - that's how they hold on... and so on...
                        That's all... if everything were so good, the migrant workers everywhere were not Tajiks, but Belarusians and Kazakhs, but as it is, even the Chinese and Vietnamese have mostly gone home... hi
                      6. 0
                        19 February 2025 15: 03
                        I judge not only by myself, but because I know for sure. I have walked a difficult path to my position. And I tried many workers until I found hard-working ones. They are the ones who earn well now. But there are cases when they also leave. For a better-paid job! Just recently a guy left for a factory. During this time, he has seen such "personnel". A person without any education, no specific skills, and no effort wants millions. Patience and work will grind everything down. So you can earn well here too. The main thing is to be a good worker.
                        IP - it's hard to pull through there,

                        I agree. But this is a market economy. Although a colleague has a small business. A tailoring studio, his wife runs it in addition to her main job. They buy fabric and sew men's thermal underwear. They sell on WB, they want to move on to tracksuits.
                      7. +1
                        19 February 2025 15: 30
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        I have come to my position by a difficult road. And I have tried many workers until I found hard-working ones. They are the ones who earn well now. But there are cases when they also leave.

                        I understand you completely..
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        During this time I have seen such "personnel". A person without any education, without any specific skills, without making any efforts wants millions.

                        and here too everything is very familiar..
                        but still, a clear indicator of reality - which is difficult to ignore - is that
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        If only everything were so good, the migrant workers everywhere were not Tajiks, but Belarusians and Kazakhs, but as it is, even the Chinese and Vietnamese have mostly gone home...

                        Well, our average level is lower than in the EU... there's no point in arguing here... I'm sure that if you were faced with the question of whether to go to the Russian Federation or the EU to earn money, you would go to the EU...
                      8. -3
                        19 February 2025 16: 04
                        In the 2000s, I almost moved to Germany. But the bureaucracy wouldn't let me. smile And now I won’t go there for any amount of money for two reasons:
                        1) Self-esteem. After all, there I will be an immigrant and a guest worker.
                        2) I like my dacha with a bathhouse.
                      9. +1
                        19 February 2025 16: 37
                        Quote: a.shlidt
                        In the 2000s I almost moved to Germany. But the bureaucracy wouldn't let me. And now I won't go there for any amount of money for two reasons:
                        1) Self-esteem. After all, there I will be an immigrant and a guest worker.
                        2) I like my dacha with a bathhouse.

                        - Well, 1, in general, in fact, if you rose to the top with us in 20 years, then I think you could have managed there too...
                        - according to the 2nd, a bathhouse can be built in Germany too laughing
                        I didn't have any options to go, and I didn't even think about it - I served in a classified capacity laughing
                        but as for the young people I know, over the last few years, several people have left... and not the worst "specimens".
                  2. 0
                    19 February 2025 12: 21
                    Now, compared to 2017, you wouldn’t even recognize it.
                    1. -2
                      19 February 2025 12: 30
                      I hope it has changed for the better.
              2. -3
                19 February 2025 16: 06
                Just don't talk about Euromaidan. They were deceived. And they were also fed drugs. And many were there for money. For example, "titushki". The war began with this schizophrenic Maidan.
                1. -2
                  19 February 2025 16: 11
                  Well, no one argues that they cheated, that some people were paid money, etc. The point is that people went there hoping to change what they were given. And they came from all over Ukraine. Well, the fact that Poroshenko and the Nazis used it for their own purposes... That is deception.
            2. +9
              19 February 2025 09: 32
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              ordinary people simply don't trust the state anymore
              What can we offer Ukraine, if initially there was a Moscow "Maidan", with Yeltsin in an "armored car", thanks to the stupid and incompetent attempt of the State Emergency Committee to remove the chatterbox Gorbachev, to save the Union from the impending catastrophe. We must begin with the recognition of the unconstitutional coup d'etat, in which both the Constitution and the results of the All-Union referendum for the preservation of the USSR were trampled. Here is the root cause of everything, with three traitors from Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Now, how are our oligarchs better than Ukrainian ones, how is our morality of greedy billionaires more attractive? The West, the USA, the master of capitalism, under which our newly-minted bad boys sit, with their coveted "jar of jam" and "pack of cookies" from the bourgeoisie. In this, the master is more attractive than his serfs, therefore "This is Europe" will be sweeter. The tragedy is that we too cannot preserve the country without a national idea, without a great morality, and it is not in the cult of money and consumer values. Therefore, without Kibalchish or the red Caesar, it is unlikely that anything bright will shine for us, once we have completely eaten away the Soviet reserve of strength.
              1. -2
                19 February 2025 09: 51
                The whole tragedy is that we cannot preserve the country without a national idea, without great morality, and it is not in the cult of money and consumer values.

                Well, tell me... Maybe I'll be harsh now and very critical, but I'll tell you and thereby not reveal the truth to anyone. Come to the SVO and ask the fighters whether they came for money or for an idea. But the SVO is an excellent reason for unity, and that's how they present it to us. The propaganda that we stand for true values ​​against the Western monster is very strong. But nevertheless. Or another example. A deputy from the Yaroslavl regional assembly proposed in the fall to equip detachments of students and schoolchildren to harvest the crops. Like in the old one-party times. She was attacked with criticism and words like "send your children", "who will pay and how much", "what, have we returned to the Soviet Union?" Well, what idea are you talking about? What is the moral? We ourselves brought up such values ​​by leaving factories for the market to trade. And we had no other choice.
                1. +6
                  19 February 2025 10: 09
                  Quote: a.shlidt
                  Come to SVO and ask the fighters whether they came for money or for an idea. After all, SVO is a great reason for unity
                  So, this is what gives birth to those who can later ask why the men died, given that the number of billionaires in Russia, oddly enough, despite all the sanctions, has grown to a record high. Who makes money on blood, why do some fight, while others trade with the enemy? How and why did they surrender Kherson, how did they let the scumbags from "Azov" go, and for Mr. Abramovich, apparently for special troubles, the West unfroze his billions. They will also ask about the Central Bank, which in fact looks into the mouth of the IMF and WTO membership, despite all the sanctions imaginable and unimaginable, and the IOM orders to accept migrants. A lot of things. And no one questions the courage of our men in the SVO. There are doubts about the strangest military operation, with frontal assaults and self-restraint, when even during the invasion of the Kursk region by the regular army, we declare a counter-terrorist operation.
                  You say we had no choice? Well, no one told us then that capitalism would be picked up from the garbage heap of history, it was called "democracy", and the fake CIS was passed off as a renewal of the USSR. In fact, both the people and the army were deceived, and this deception of ours has its roots there, Minsk and Istanbul, this is first and foremost a deception of the people by the authorities, only after the authorities by the West, although they themselves are happy to be deceived.
                  1. -2
                    19 February 2025 11: 50
                    Well, no one told us then.

                    When VVP says that we were deceived, it makes everyone smile. But when it comes to the collapse of the USSR, everyone says exactly the same thing, only without a smile. What kind of multi-vector policy is this?
                    So, this is what gives birth to those who can

                    Perhaps now, when the heroes from the battlefield come to power, something will change and people like Abramovich Nakoll will be jailed. But that's not certain.
      2. +2
        19 February 2025 11: 09
        Quote: a.shlidt
        1) They believed it was true that "Ukraine is not Russia"

        This is what the elites in all the former 14 sisters think, even in Belarus. And then, from whom did Russia declare independence on June 12, 1990?
        .
        Quote: a.shlidt
        2) They lived only on short-term benefits from bribes and theft.

        Bribes went to oligarchs and some politicians, they even managed to slip Yanukovych 3 billion at the end of the day, but the common people didn’t care, they wanted to travel to Europe to earn money without visas.
        .
        Quote: a.shlidt
        3) Descendants of the "forest brothers" and Bandera.

        Brothers are Poland, the rest had 2 regions in Western Ukraine, at least some representation was received in 15 after the well-known events.
        Quote: a.shlidt
        They planted their idea and poured it into everyone's ears.

        Where were our "Russian houses", Rossotrudnichestvo and diplomats? Why didn't they pour it into our ears?
        Quote: a.shlidt
        Russia can still offer them a lot.

        Visa-free access to the White Sea resorts? Exchange Poroshenko for Rotenberg or Lenkavsky for Ilyin?
        Quote: a.shlidt
        And finally, the protests against socialism in favor of capitalism began with Ukrainian miners.

        No, Kuzbass started in 1989. Then Vorkuta joined in with the famous "DEMANDS OF THE INTER-MINE STRIKE COMMITTEE OF MINERS OF THE CITY OF VORKUTA". Things started boiling in Donbass in early 1990.
        Quote: a.shlidt
        I think the idea of ​​socialism no longer appeals to them.

        Hmm, what about us? Or have they already stopped bashfully hiding the mausoleum from the eyes of business people?
        1. 0
          19 February 2025 11: 31
          Only people came to power who:
          1) They believed it was true that "Ukraine is not Russia"
          2) They lived only on short-term benefits from bribes and theft.
          3) Descendants of the "forest brothers" and Bandera.

          Did I express myself incorrectly or did you decide to add some clarification to my words?
          Where were ours?

          Ours were exterminated. See the points above.
          Visa-free access to the White Sea resorts? Exchange Poroshenko for Rotenberg or Lenkavsky for Ilyin?

          You are one of those people whose glass is half empty.
          No, Kuzbass started in 1989.

          Well, let it be so, it doesn't change the essence. Socialism is of no interest to anyone now.
          Hm, what about us?

          And we are not interested in it either. Or do you want to bring back the planned economy? Just like in the 70s and 80s?
          Or has the mausoleum already stopped being shamefully hidden from the eyes of business people?

          At the dawn of the USSR, crosses were also torn down from churches. The regimental standards under which they had been smashing the enemy for a hundred years were torn to shreds. Any heritage and wealth was exchanged for ammunition and food. No one seems to remember this. And how much gold they gave for American stew.
          1. +1
            19 February 2025 11: 57
            Quote: a.shlidt
            Did I express myself incorrectly or did you decide to add some clarification to my words?

            No, everything is correct. True, according to these criteria, the SVO can be started against any of the former republics, somewhere like in Central Asia they started killing ours in the 90s, somewhere like in Poland and the Baltics since the 2000s, all sorts of marches have been going on, the language is suppressed everywhere except Belarus.
            Quote: a.shlidt
            Ours were exterminated. See the points above.

            Yes, but they had to, as you put it, "pour their idea into our ears".
            You are one of those people whose glass is half empty.

            Still, I would like to hear what we can give? What Europe cannot give, only traditional values ​​come to mind, but what they are here, no one really knows.
            Well, let it be so, it doesn’t change the essence.

            In the thesis "the protests against socialism in favor of capitalism began with Ukrainian miners?" Well, maybe so, here, as they say, "everything goes."
            At the dawn of the USSR, crosses were also thrown off churches.

            Our dawn is already 35 years old, somehow it has dragged on.
            .
            And how much gold was paid for American stewed meat.

            Comrade Stalin understood the debts and said, “We paid for everything with blood, so no gold.”
            1. -2
              19 February 2025 12: 23
              It is possible to start a military conflict against any of the former republics

              I agree, nationalistic sentiments prevail everywhere. And this began during the Soviet Union.
              Yes, but they should have

              The last offer to Yanukovych on economic development was very tempting. Better than the European visa-free regime and other things. We tried to fight for Ukraine on the ideological and economic field until 2014. But we were weaker in this and lost.
              Still, I would like to hear what we can give?

              Lots and lots of investment in economic development. A customs union with uniform prices for gas and petrol. Everything else will follow.
              something somehow got delayed

              Well, they didn’t demolish the Mausoleum, and that’s good, just like they did with the Temple.
              Comrade Stalin understood about debts

              And I didn't only mean him.
              1. 0
                19 February 2025 14: 40
                Quote: a.shlidt
                Lots and lots of investment in economic development.
                and haven't they been doing this for the past 30 years? where is the result? where is the effect? ​​SVO? or maybe - suddenly: "we will now live in a new way?" I don't believe it, and with good reason.. I think only rakers can believe in such scenarios (who jump on the rake, each time hoping for a different result)
                1. -1
                  19 February 2025 14: 52
                  Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                  and haven't they been doing this for the past 30 years?

                  Not really, stupid embezzlement of money and investments are still different things.
                  1. 0
                    19 February 2025 15: 32
                    Quote: guest
                    Not really, stupid embezzlement of money and investments are still different things.

                    well, yes, well... It was like that for 30 years, and now it's investments... and the people are still the same... I admire your faith in the best... hi
                    1. 0
                      19 February 2025 15: 39
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      well, yes, well... It was like that for 30 years, and now it's investments... and the people are still the same... I admire your faith in the best...

                      I suppose you didn't quite understand me.
                2. -1
                  19 February 2025 15: 59
                  30 years, hardly. From 2008 to 2013, they were given big preferences and the factories were loaded with our orders. The same Kharkov and Zaporozhye. But the West gave it directly to their personal account. USAID damn it... And that's where we lost.
                  You know, I believe that everything will work out and we will be together. Despite this war.
            2. +1
              19 February 2025 12: 29
              About gold, read what the cruiser "Edinburgh" carried to England from the USSR.
          2. +1
            19 February 2025 16: 03
            It is not socialism that is interesting, but the welfare state. And it appeared under socialism.
            The common people threw down crosses from churches. Well, the people didn't like priests, and nothing could be done about it! Pushkin also had "The Tale of the Priest and His Worker Balda": ...From the first click, the priest jumped up to the ceiling...
            And what about American stewed meat - what do you want to feed people?
            1. -3
              19 February 2025 16: 31
              One of the main features of a social state is the existence of budgetary social payments. Benefits exist now. It's just one thing when people received an apartment in the union. Another thing is 10 thousand rubles, as now. You also won't be able to reproach our authorities for not paying pensions.
              The people did not like priests, but they observed the fast. They baptized and kept icons in secret.
              It's good that at least food was exchanged for gold. And what about the gas-pipeline deal? And the other "purchases"?
              1. 0
                21 February 2025 00: 47
                One of the main features of a social state is the presence of budgetary social payments
                In tsarist Russia they were there too. But no one considered it a social state. In the Union there were many that were received... For example, I received a free higher education (I graduated, however, already in Russia).
                I wasn't talking about the religious beliefs of the common people, but about their attitude to the official church. Have you heard the word "myroed"? - That's what priests were called!
                I don't want to discuss the topic of food for gold - I'd have to write a history course here. There was nowhere to go.
                Gas pipes - it was an extremely profitable deal. No wonder the Americans tried to stop it!
                1. 0
                  21 February 2025 08: 46
                  Yes, in the Union we got a lot of things, but I don't want the return of a planned economy, where everyone gets their share. I'm used to the fact that there is a huge selection in the store and I can buy whatever I want. Based on my capabilities.
                  I agree that life under the Soviet Union was socially oriented. Pioneers, free sections, clubs and education. This is what we have really lost and what we need to cry crocodile tears about. But there is another side. People who are now trying to gather student teams to harvest the crops (a common practice under the Soviet Union) are faced with enormous criticism.
                  And now we have a social state. Take, for example, payments for large families. And the fact that they are mainly received by migrants is already a question of justice, but not of sociality.
                  People then went to these same priests for services and to baptize their children. The parish always remained.
                  The example of this deal led to the fact that Russia always "bought" something for gold and other natural resources, without having its own production. And even during the Union.
  3. +3
    19 February 2025 05: 43
    the army as a whole does not have high qualities in terms of individual fighter training
    This is probably why the operation to liberate parts of the Kursk region and Donetsk region is taking so long.
  4. BAI
    +8
    19 February 2025 06: 10
    So Russia remains as the only prospect for the majority of demobilized citizens of the neighboring country to find work and feed themselves and their families.

    What an idea. First they killed our soldiers and civilians, and then they went to Russia for food? Does the author even understand what he is writing?
    1. +2
      19 February 2025 07: 24
      Quote: BAI
      First they killed our soldiers and civilians, and then sent them to Russia for food?
      Officers and soldiers of the Wehrmacht and SS also once fought against France, and after the war they ended up in the French Foreign Legion. In the army and special services of the GDR there were also many officers of the Wehrmacht and SD, who had previously fought against us, and then became our allies. People with combat experience and who know how to hold a rifle in their hands will be useful always and everywhere. For example, in the same Syria or Libya. Who knows where else a fight might start?
      1. +1
        19 February 2025 15: 59
        You somehow forgot that the French fought in both the Wehrmacht and the SS. The Reichstag was defended by the French from the SS Charlemagne Division (completely French). About the GDR. From the Wehrmacht - yes. From the SD - no - there was denazification, and they simply did not take such people.
        1. 0
          19 February 2025 16: 39
          Quote: futurohunter
          From SD - no - there was denazification, and they simply didn’t take people like that
          Walter Hagen, Wilhelm Hoetl and Heinz Felfe will not let you lie. The latter actually worked for the NKVD. And these are only those who left memoirs. And how many are unknown? The entire post-war West German intelligence and counterintelligence was staffed with them. I will also name Willi Krichbaum, Müller's deputy (that same one)
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 00: 42
            I know about Felfe, I even read his book, though a long time ago. I didn't know he was in the SS and SD. My apologies. But as for the other two, they didn't work in the GDR secret services, and where is the evidence that they were recruited? And that same Felfe was an agent, not a full-time employee.
            As far as I understand, the GDR security forces took those who had not stained themselves with war crimes. It was not only a matter of moral principles. It was simply dangerous to take convinced Nazis for such work. And there could have been a serious international scandal - the West would have raised it immediately if they had found out
            1. +1
              21 February 2025 05: 46
              Quote: futurohunter
              But as for the other two, they did not work in the GDR secret services.
              They worked for the BND, the West German secret service.
              And the international scandal could have been serious - the West would have raised it immediately if they had found out
              When Karl Wolff (yes, that same one), the chief of Himmler's personal staff, was released from prison after serving a ridiculous sentence, there was no scandal. He worked as a lawyer for the rest of his life in complete prosperity and peace almost until perestroika, although his place was on the gallows
              And the same Felfe is still an agent, not a full-time employee.
              Felfe himself came to the Soviet administration and offered his services. It seems that he was enlisted in the staff
              1. 0
                21 February 2025 20: 41
                Michel, we have some confusion. Look, the BND is the FRG intelligence service. It was actually created by the Nazi general Gehlen. They were happy to take people with a Nazi past, if, of course, they had combat experience. Executioners were of no interest to anyone, but masters of espionage and sabotage were very much so. In the FRG, there was practically no denazification. Even that same Hartmann got some good position there.
                This same Wolf - in which occupation zone was he sitting? This is the key point.
                Regarding Felfe in the state. I can't find his book now - I'd be happy to reread it.
                I highly doubt he was on staff. Recruited agents are rarely put on staff. For that he would have to be given a position and rank, and I highly doubt that.
    2. -1
      19 February 2025 07: 32
      He probably understands well... He probably remembered Chechnya... smile
    3. +4
      19 February 2025 07: 40
      This is not an idea and the author does not sympathize with it, which he writes about directly. This is the implementation of a possible scenario that is unfavorable for us. And I tried to argue my point of view. Or have you forgotten about the persecution of Russians in the former nominally fraternal Central Asian republics, whose citizens are now working for us? I did not quite understand your reproach, in a word.
    4. +3
      19 February 2025 08: 53
      Quote: BAI
      What an idea. First they killed our soldiers and civilians, and then they were sent to Russia for food?

      no, they won't come to us.. there's a sea of ​​low-paid work in the EU.. like picking strawberries in Poland - 1500-2000 euros a month and free accommodation, and food prices are about the same as ours.. and that's from 1500 salary - the minimum.. at a construction site, etc. it's noticeably more.. someone will come of course, but I think they will be a few, since they introduced a visa-free regime with the EU, they almost stopped traveling to the Russian Federation and until 2022..
      1. +1
        19 February 2025 11: 54
        And the climate there is milder than, for example, in the Volga region.
      2. -2
        19 February 2025 14: 21
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        No, they won't come to us

        They will! To Western and Eastern Siberia, to the Far East. Because they know very well that kind Russia will give them everything, and Poland and Europe in general, which remembers everything, will give them only warm weather and 1000-1500 euros for picked strawberries and washed toilets. Don't forget the truism: "A Ukrainian lives in Ukraine, and a khokhol lives where it's better."
        And the restoration of Ukraine will now be undertaken by the migrants and "new Russians" legalized by Khusnullin's hands. This is his cow and he milks it and will continue to milk it.
        1. +1
          19 February 2025 15: 57
          They've been going for a long time. Simple and banal - to earn money. Firstly, there's no need to learn other languages. And secondly, everything in Western Europe has been taken for a long time.
          1. +1
            19 February 2025 17: 09
            Every seventh employed Ukrainian is a labor migrant. The number of workers abroad increased from 1,2 million in 2010-2012 to 3,2 million in 2019, 2,7 million of whom worked in the EU. Until 2014, the main destination for labor migration was the Russian Federation. From 2014-2016, the number of Ukrainian labor migrants in the EU increased by 42%. In 2019, almost 1 million Ukrainians worked in the Polish agricultural sector. Accordingly, someone will probably go, but 1 out of 6 or 7 to the Russian Federation, and all the rest, respectively, to the EU, before the visa-free regime - there was an inverse proportion.
            1. 0
              21 February 2025 00: 51
              It doesn't matter how many go there, we will also have a large flow after peace comes. It is there now. And before 22, many Ukrainians worked for us - I know them myself, and quite a few
        2. 0
          19 February 2025 17: 10
          Quote: AlexSam
          "A Ukrainian lives in Ukraine, and a khokhol lives where it's better"

          Well, they pay more in the EU, so they'll go there.
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 00: 34
            Is anyone waiting for them in this Yes? Wherever they are accepted, that's where they should go.
      3. 0
        19 February 2025 15: 57
        They have been with us for a long time. Including veterans of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
    5. +1
      19 February 2025 09: 14
      Quote: BAI
      So Russia remains as the only prospect for the majority of demobilized citizens of the neighboring country to find work and feed themselves and their families.

      What an idea. First they killed our soldiers and civilians, and then they went to Russia for food? Does the author even understand what he is writing?

      "But wars end in peace, and I wandered through the world..."
    6. +1
      19 February 2025 15: 59
      We already have them. A lot.
  5. +6
    19 February 2025 06: 31
    I don't understand at all how after the Second World War they can accept anyone from Ukraine as migrants to Russia, especially men! First of all, they are needed there in that Ukraine of theirs, if anything remains of it. To rebuild everything! Here in the article they write about post-war syndrome. And how did these Ukrainians from the current Armed Forces of Ukraine acquire this syndrome? They acquired it by shooting at Russian soldiers, and their wives raised their children under the slogan "Cut the Russians"! And when Russia cut off their horns, they started migrating to Russia??? !!! What is this policy called? Friendship of peoples, or what? By the way, if not Russia had won, but these people from Ukraine with post-war syndrome, they would have happily done in Russia what their wives taught their children to do. No, they wouldn't have cut out all the Russians. Some of them would have been left to toil and be slaves...
    1. +2
      19 February 2025 07: 43
      Yes, there is no talk of any friendship. But economics is a cynical thing, and its interests are devoid of an emotional component.
    2. +3
      19 February 2025 07: 57
      Quote: North 2
      I don't understand at all how after the SVO it is possible to accept someone from Ukraine as migrants to Russia
      Just as the young American state accepted into its citizenship and granted land to the Hanoverian mercenaries who fought on the side of the English king against the militia of the colonists wink
    3. -2
      19 February 2025 15: 56
      Don't worry, we already have plenty of Ukrainian migrants, including former servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Perhaps they are walking around with you.
      As for "post-war syndrome" (PTSD), everyone who has been in a combat zone has it. Both our veterans and residents of new territories.
      Don't talk nonsense if you don't know
  6. +1
    19 February 2025 06: 33
    "The purpose of war is to turn an enemy into an ally."
    W. Churchill.
  7. -1
    19 February 2025 08: 14
    Quote: Igor Khodakov
    But economics is a cynical thing, and its interests are devoid of an emotional component.

    Yeah! But everyone wants to eat.
  8. 0
    19 February 2025 08: 15
    Quote: north 2
    accept as migrants to Russia someone from Ukraine, especially men!

    And who is going? The author is simply discussing a hypothetical situation.
  9. -3
    19 February 2025 08: 19
    Quote from turembo
    If we could, there wouldn't be this whole conflict.

    They say that an aquarium fish, having made a circle around the aquarium, completely forgets what it saw lol.
    Excuse me, how old are you? Just before the Maidan, Ukraine was given very tempting offers for joint economic development. Large programs in shipbuilding, mechanical engineering, transport, and so on down the list.
    Don't you remember that? Or does the need to earn your food overshadow everything?
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 15: 53
      Not even proposals. We actually worked together. Count how many Ka-52 Alligators fly. And most of them have Ukrainian engines. There have been many joint projects since the Soviet era. After the break with Russia in 2014, Ukrainian enterprises were left without orders. Nobody needs them.
  10. -2
    19 February 2025 08: 26
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    Quote: North 2
    I don't understand at all how after the SVO it is possible to accept someone from Ukraine as migrants to Russia
    Just as the young American state accepted into its citizenship and granted land to the Hanoverian mercenaries who fought on the side of the English king against the militia of the colonists wink

    Empress Catherine the Great, whose inheritance is the cause of all this, started out as a paid spy for the Prussian king. The situation changed, the behavior changed.
    1. -1
      19 February 2025 15: 51
      Don't talk nonsense. Catherine the Great came to Russia as a princess to become the wife of the Russian Tsar. And she became great precisely because of her "behavior"
  11. -1
    19 February 2025 09: 14
    Still, it is probably difficult for us to realize that the Russian army will restore order in post-war Ukraine. After the well-known events in the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces should be disbanded and its leadership convicted of war crimes, as well as the direct participants in the crimes.
    The article is written in a solid volume, the author tried. But if you understand and accept the axiom that the army of the losing side no longer exists, then a lot of unnecessary things have been written.
    A friendly piece of advice to the author: don't fall for the TV hype about negotiations and a truce. This is all for the international community. The RF Armed Forces continue and will continue to fulfill the goals of the SVO.
  12. +6
    19 February 2025 09: 37
    Quote: Igor Khodakov
    Yes, there is no talk of any friendship. But economics is a cynical thing, and its interests are devoid of an emotional component.

    You won't believe it, but politics is even more cynical, and politics will always beat economics, the story of how economics and the market will solve everything, it doesn't work. And it never has.

    Ukraine in any form is a threat to Russia now. It is a matter of time before revaschist sentiments appear there if some kind of half-hearted peace is concluded. And in its current form, Ukraine is just the perfect conditions for the Ukrainian version of Hitler to come to power: a humiliated country, a ruined economy, and officers and soldiers as a social support for coming to power. Why does a goat need a button accordion? Why does Russia need such a Ukraine?
    1. +2
      19 February 2025 14: 34
      Quote: ButchCassidy
      You won't believe it, but politics is even more cynical, and politics will always beat economics, the story of how economics and the market will solve everything, it doesn't work. And it never has.

      But some people still believe in this nonsense.
    2. -2
      19 February 2025 15: 49
      There is no need for any Hitler there - he is already there. Green. There will be no more Hitler there. And the country has been humiliated by the green Hitler himself and his masters.
      Wars end someday. The GDR was the USSR's most loyal ally in the Warsaw Pact
  13. -1
    19 February 2025 09: 46
    Formation of corps is a planned increase in the total number of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Conscription from 18 years will give + 200 bayonets minimum. Now it will not be possible to steer a group of brigades in a direction with constant reshuffling, the brigades will be reduced to corps - more or less permanent formations.

    Regarding Ukrainian migrant workers - doubtful. Unless it was ordered by the GUR, the level of hatred is too high now, IMHO. Yes
  14. +1
    19 February 2025 09: 52
    They have everything normal with politics in the army, as practice has shown, the guys are very motivated, even cooks and bakers who get captured)
  15. +3
    19 February 2025 09: 53
    IMHO, for many years now they have been fooling readers by pushing Zelensky into the leading role in the media.
    And he is just a scapegoat to fool readers. Not a military man, not a scientist, not a financier, not a brilliant manager. Just a face.
    The government expresses the interests of the class. Ukrainian capitalists who do not want Russian oligarchs and officials to take everything from them. Not a single Ukrainian oligarch died.

    Naryshkin and Prigozhin let it slip at the time. Remember, the "annexed" champagne factory, where was it? What, the previous owner? or a new one? I couldn't find it on the Internet...
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 12: 13
      any war is about profit and fascists or green Nazis or Satanists rams or roosters are a cover for mukas (a common theme is our intelligence agents and their dirty mercenaries)
    2. 0
      19 February 2025 14: 32
      Quote: Max1995
      Not a single Ukrainian oligarch died.

      Well, actually, they killed someone in Nikolaev.
      1. +1
        19 February 2025 15: 28
        An elderly VIP manager from SH? who was put in a dacha? about him?:

        Not up to the mark. IMHO, an analogue of our Grudinin, whom no one really knew before the elections
  16. +3
    19 February 2025 10: 08
    The article has nothing to do with objectivity and reality. Fiction. I don't know why it was placed in the Analytics section. They won't go to Russia. Some will remain in the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the buffer zone (70 percent), the rest will find places in Europe and various Euro-US PMCs.
  17. -1
    19 February 2025 10: 15
    Will Ukrainian Armed Forces veterans go to Russia to earn money?

    Holy naivety! To do this, you need to take control of the territory where the veterans live. While no one the regional center of Ukraine has not been controlled by the SVO for 3 years. I think there will be no such control in the next 3 years (if the SVO continues), unless N years.
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 15: 46
      In the territory that Russia "took control of", there are also enough former servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces who fought in Donbass in 2014-22. They are also in "big Russia"
  18. 0
    19 February 2025 10: 38
    Quote: Grossvater
    Or does the need to earn food overshadow everything?

    Judging by the minuses, it does outshine! Well, good luck, keep feeding...
  19. -2
    19 February 2025 11: 52
    It is safe to say that migration from Ukraine after the war will occur, but not to Russia, but to the European Union. Firstly, their wives and children are already in Poland or Germany and will be joined by surviving soldiers. Secondly, the lowest salary is in Poland - 80 rubles and prices are almost the same. In addition, there is social security and 515 rubles for each child in the family up to 18000 years old. Yes, after the war, Ukraine will be empty and everyone will leave. But definitely not to Russia.
    1. -2
      19 February 2025 12: 00
      Secondly, there was an article on VO recently about the opening of a training center in Poland, where Koper, with his experience, will train NATO soldiers. There was so much laughter about “what happened to NATO standards”, “what can they teach them Ukrainians" I'll write what will happen there. They will take a lot of experienced Ukrainian drone operators and will train NATO soldiers en masse in preparation for war. You can continue to laugh.
      1. 0
        19 February 2025 15: 41
        "Ukrainian operators" can train anyone, but are these overfed burghers with beer bellies capable of anything? When did NATO troops fight a strong army?
    2. 0
      19 February 2025 15: 43
      And they keep coming and coming... Contrary to your wishes, and to Russia too. Including veterans from the Ukrainian army who fought in Donbass. There is evidence. And there is also enough criminality there, who fled there in 2014... He can also return... Where do the waiters and terrorists come from?
  20. 0
    19 February 2025 14: 26
    I wrote about the probable prospect of migration of a significant portion of the military personnel demobilized from the Ukrainian army to our country after the end of the Second World War.

    We still have enough of these finished whiners. am
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 15: 36
      Don't worry, we've had them for a long time.
  21. +1
    19 February 2025 14: 41
    I will act as an opponent to the author, since "on bayonets", of course, it is possible to come to power, but to "sit" on them, and, even more so, to develop economically and socially - is impossible. Unless, of course, you live on a desert island and, around you, there are no other, predatory, and strong civilizations and states. And the design, goals, and tasks of the military "battering ram" are ALWAYS determined and set by the dominant feudal-bureaucratic class, the ruling oligarchic clan or the dictatorial political class of corporate property owners, putting forward, from THEIR ENVIRONMENT, political representatives who can be military "leaders", if the country's infrastructure and political-economic institutions are not developed, or act as a socio-political organization using the military, in times of crisis, for their own purposes and interests. And therefore, in Ukraine today, in my opinion, as in a failed bourgeois parliamentary republic of the middle bourgeoisie, which has slid into oligarchic Makhnovshchina, the framework for which, until 2022, was determined by several oligarchic clans of Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk and Kyiv, an unsolvable task is being spun up, FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF UKRAINE. Since the Jewish oligarchy wants to "build" some analogue of Great Israel, the East will belong to the Russian oligarchy, and the West of the country is fighting for "European integration". And, this stratification took place and will take place not according to the property categories of oligarchs, "riders", "zeugites" and "fets", but according to the "regional" principle. That is, to what markets for sales and raw materials the region is "tied", ALL property categories of the population of Ukraine will strive. And the ongoing "war" is just a "push the falling" situation. Since there is no single national economic complex, like in the USSR, and there will never be one. The former Soviet "nationalized" property has been divided, privatized, corporatized, and the population, just like ours, has finally split in relation to this privatized property. Therefore, it will not be the military or the middle bourgeoisie that decides, but the oligarchic clans formed over the last 30 years, together with foreign "curators." And the military? The military will carry out the tasks assigned to them. Or rebel with a near-zero result.

    P.S. "...- Who is your senior!!!...
    And the bandit hits the main character on the head with a crowbar and replies:
    "- Nobody! We have Makhnovshchina!)))"

    Episode from the movie "Boomer 2"
    1. 0
      19 February 2025 15: 39
      Oleg Plenkin
      Somehow you explained it in a complicated way. But I understood you like this (and I admit this option myself): turning 404 into Somalia, a territory of eternal war "all against all". To the last Ukrainian. It is quite possible. There was already such a scenario in 1918-22.
      1. 0
        19 February 2025 17: 48
        Is it difficult? Let us, at least abstractly, analyze two control circuits. Internal and external. And list the existing and possible political and economic power entities in Ukraine.
        So, the internal control "loop":
        - a commercial "peripheral" financial and commercial oligarchy in the form of a presidential or presidential-parliamentary "republic", integrated into the global economy of the West, as a raw materials appendage and a source of cheap labor, and, without the West or the East, unable to hold on to and control all the others;
        - a corporate fascist state of large owners of the means of production, corporate industrial banks belonging to them, large shareholders and large agricultural landowners, as one of the possible, but unrealizable scenarios, in which a LOT of THINGS is needed, well, for example, a serious philosophical worldview, political economy and social culture, which do not exist in Ukraine, but there are only myths of German National Socialism on a small-town, rural "soil";
        - a bourgeois "parliamentary" republic of the middle bourgeoisie, from which the Ukrainian "nomenklatura" Cossack "elders" have been pissing boiling water, for the last 30 years, of no use to anyone except them, since the dictatorship of the middle bourgeoisie is a nightmare of the oligarchy and large property owners, as well as a permanent redistribution of large property, in the interests of the "horsemen", under the bogeyman of "nationalization";
        - a petty-bourgeois national republic of the "Common Cause", as a class political-economic dictatorship of the middle property strata of city dwellers and rural owners, for the emergence of which a cooperative corporate culture and ethics of the middle class and the formation of public consciousness of the required quality are necessary, and not a farmstead and small-town "Benderism" mixed with "Makhnovism";
        - I will not write about the "poor" and the destitute, since, during the reign of private property, their fate is terrible (...
        1. 0
          19 February 2025 18: 10
          Let's move on. External contour.
          The USA is a sales market, resources, specialists, the transfer of currency “abroad”, a presidential republic, the country is ruled by a peripheral oligarchy, in general - a “squirrel cage”, some build, others spin;
          Western Europe is a sales market, resources, specialists, the withdrawal of "currency" abroad, a bourgeois parliamentary republic of the middle bourgeoisie and a permanent war with the oligarchy, ANY!;
          Great Britain - the form of government doesn't matter, legal relations between types of property and the state - doesn't matter, war with the "orcs" to the last bright "knight", in the long term a scorched steppe, after which the "small Britons" will shit on ANY Russia in other places, since the world is big and huge, and there are a lot of fools everywhere(;
          Russia - with the existing oligarchy in the Russian Federation, only a peripheral oligarchy, but existing within the framework of the policy of "our" nomenklatura nouveau riche, all other subjects - only with a change in the regime itself in Russia;
          China - similar to Russia, a very pragmatic and rational policy towards everyone, which can only change with changes within China itself, for example, strengthening the role of the middle-income population - the "Xiaokang" society.
          Summary. Who needs Ukraine today as a regional power with a strong science-intensive and high-tech industrially developed economy - under any type of ownership and form of government? NO ONE. And that means war to the last "free" Cossack or division of the country, in case of defeat, is inevitable. And, in order for the population of Ukraine to have a perspective, radical changes are needed among external "players".
    2. BAI
      0
      19 February 2025 16: 08
      S. "...- Who is your eldest!!!...
      And the bandit hits the main character on the head with a crowbar and replies:
      "- Nobody! We have Makhnovshchina!)))"

      Episode from the movie "Boomer 2"

      "Who's the boss here?"
      "I!"
      The questioner shoots the answerer.
      "The answer is incorrect. I am the elder here."
      Episode from the film "Under Siege"
      1. 0
        19 February 2025 18: 15
        And how long have they been shooting? Three years? And how much longer will they continue?
  22. 0
    19 February 2025 15: 36
    A very strange article. The author started with veterans of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Russia. I hasten to please - they already exist. I was told about them by those who were at the front. Basically, these are those who fought in the ATO in the period 2014-22, and then settled in the territories that later became ours.
    Then suddenly a sharp jump to the Ukrainian military. Regarding the participation of the military in politics in our country. author, apparently, had not heard about the Kornilov mutiny, and General Makashov. And former military men were closely involved in politics - Brezhnev, Andropov, Stepashin, and Vladimir Vladimirovich himself.

    Regarding Syrsky. He might stage a coup just to save his ass. Will we negotiate with him? Not a fact. Everyone remembers how and why he ended up in Ukraine. Theoretically, his former classmates or father could put pressure on him, but I doubt that would mean anything to him. A coup? And remember the conspiracy against Hitler. The conspirators had no intention of stopping the war! They wanted a truce with the West in order to continue the war with the USSR. Syrsky may try to negotiate with Trump in order to make the war eternal under the guise of a truce. He simply has nowhere to go. In Russia, he faces prison for violating his oath. He is not needed in the West. It is difficult for such a prominent person to hide. He will be alive as long as the war continues. He will not restore anything. Why? Rather, he will further militarize the country and turn the remaining population into servicemen. In order to fight "to the last Ukrainian." But will he be able to do it? I think there are still many power hungry people there. Including among the surviving Nazis. They have nowhere to go either.
  23. 0
    19 February 2025 16: 16
    Quote from turembo
    We should have thought about all this before the conflict started, but now it's too late to drink Borjomi. What can we offer Ukraine? If we could, there wouldn't be this whole conflict, and there would be nationalists who would shout their Bandera slogans, but no one would listen to them. And coupled with a strong economy and a high standard of living, Ukraine would beg us to seize it, and they would join us. But since, no matter how you look at it, we can't give them anything, nationalism? Ours is the same as theirs, exchanging the great Ukrainians for the super ethnic group of the Rus from ancient Olympus is stupid, we ourselves don't have socialism, and ordinary people are no longer interested in rotten capitalism. Therefore, the most likely option in this case is a hostile state, with a corresponding ideology, we lived poorly, and the Russians came and bombed the only toilet, so they are to blame for everything that we live poorly, an ideal card for the future government of Ukraine, they are actively using it now, a cat gave birth to kittens, this is ...... guilty. Although this is a well-known song for capitalists, in America they shout about all social problems because of the Russians, here they shout all the USA, the dollar and NATO, and otherwise we would live like in Monaco. Noodles are good, but it's a pity only on the ears, and you can't put them in a saucepan.

    In America they stopped shouting "it's all because of the Russians" 30 years ago. Well, they started remembering the Russians a little in the last 2 years, but not much.
  24. 0
    19 February 2025 20: 12
    Quote: futurohunter
    Don't talk nonsense. Catherine the Great came to Russia as a princess to become the wife of the Russian Tsar. And she became great precisely because of her "behavior"

    What are you talking about?! And here I thought she was crawling across the border with her shoes on backwards! Thanks for explaining that.
    What, the wife of the heir to the throne can’t, for a decent baksheesh of course, carry out secret assignments?
    P.S. the word great, when titled the empress, is usually written with a capital letter. Like this - Catherine the Great.
  25. +1
    20 February 2025 09: 58
    Take all the worst things in Russia from 1991 to 2025, throw away the good, multiply by five - you get 404. With the Bandera-Ukrainian mentality, even a military political coup won't work. "Take power" for a week, collect and pack gold and cash currency, and get the hell out.
  26. 0
    20 February 2025 14: 10
    Quote: CleanKeys
    Take all the worst things in Russia from 1991 to 2025, throw away the good, multiply by five - you get 404. With the Bandera-Ukrainian mentality, even a military political coup won't work. "Take power" for a week, collect and pack gold and cash currency, and get the hell out.

    Vershigora, "Raid on the San and the Vistula". Nothing has changed since then.