How the battleship Oslyabya perished

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How the battleship Oslyabya perished


Historiography of the death of the Oslyabya


The Russian public learned about the fate of the Oslyabya from a telegram published in the press by the Commander-in-Chief of the Land and Naval Armed Forces of the Far East, N. P. Linevich:



One of the shells hit the Oslyabya on the left in the living deck near the forward bulkhead... Because of the waves and the speed, it was impossible to patch the hole... Another shell, which hit the 10th coal pit from the left side, penetrated the armor and flooded the spare powder chamber. The list and trim to the bow increased... About 3 o'clock, due to the increase in the list, water began to flow through the ports of the lower battery... The Oslyabya was out of action and about 3 o'clock sank to the bottom, turning upside down.

This fragmentary information then became food for numerous versions of the battleship's death.

In the July 1905 issue of the “Morskoy Sbornik” an article was published artillery officer of the battleship Peresvet V. N. Cherkasov "Under what circumstances can a battleship be sunk by artillery fire?" The author concluded that the Oslyabya capsized as a result of just one large hole through which water penetrated onto the living deck. The loss of stability occurred due to significant construction overload, design errors, and lifting of cargo to the upper decks during the battle.

In July 1905, Novoye Vremya published a letter from M. P. Sablin, in which he attributed a fatal role to the hole in the bow compartment.

In the September 1905 issue of the Naval Collection, the flagship navigation officer of the cruiser detachment, S. R. de Livron, explained the rapid demise of the battleship by its insufficient stability due to the large overload:

The Oslyabya was heavily overloaded and generally considered a wobbly vessel. It capsized after a second 12-inch shell hit it near the waterline.

The commander of the cruiser Oleg, L. F. Dobrotvorsky, did not believe in the possibility of the Oslyabya being sunk by artillery fire and claimed that it was torpedoed by a submarine.

Flagship navigator V. I. Semenov in historical The novel "Battle of Tsushima" (1906) put into the mouth of one of the officers of the "Oslyabya" an explanation that the ship was destroyed by three successive hits by Japanese shells in almost the same place - under the bow turret. A hole the size of a gate formed, and then the internal bulkheads could not withstand the pressure of the gushing water.

The naval engineer of the battleship Oryol, V.P. Kostenko, in his work “Borodino-type battleships in the Battle of Tsushima” (1906) indicated that the cause of the fatal increase in trim and list was the ingress of water through large holes in the unarmored bow.

Professor of the Imperial Moscow Technical School P.K. Khudyakov in his book “The Road to Tsushima” (1907) hinted at the poor quality of the ship’s manufacture:

The battleship Oslyabya, hit by the second 12-inch shell that hit it near the waterline... and pierced its armor, was the first to capsize in the battle on May 14 and... forever hid under water the shameful results of many years of construction by our naval department.

In his article “The Current State of Shipbuilding Technology” (1909), shipbuilder N. N. Kuteinikov explained the death of the Oslyabya by the loss of stability from the flooding of the bow through the destroyed unarmored side.

The death of the Oslyabya was also reflected in the works of foreign experts.

The famous Danish engineer W. Hovgaard in his article “The Fate of Russian Ships in Tsushima from the Point of View of a Naval Shipbuilder”, published in F. Jane’s collection “Fighting Ships” in 1906, concluded that the Oslyabya perished due to low structural stability, high overload and lack of armor at the ends.

Chief Engineer of the French fleet In his article "Combat Accidents in the Russo-Japanese War" in 1906, C. Ferrand named the loss of stability from extensive flooding as the cause of the Oslyabya's demise. First, water entered the bow through a hole, and then spread across the living deck and hold spaces through decks, bulkheads, doors, and manholes that were found to be leaky.

Many years have passed since then, but the issue of the death of the Oslyabya has not lost its relevance even in our time.

A leading specialist in the field of unsinkability, N. P. Muru, in his brochure “Lessons of the Battle of Tsushima for a Shipbuilder” (1990) drew attention to the fact that the Russian battleships entered the battle with a large overload, which greatly reduced the design reserve of buoyancy and stability. He compared the circumstances of the loss of the Oslyabya with the disasters of the Victoria, Empress Maria, Shokaku and Novorossiysk, in which the occurrence of a large trim led to a loss of stability.

Naval researcher S. V. Suliga in his article “Why the Oslyabya Perished” emphasized the high operational overload, due to which the ship’s waterline had only weak protection in the central part.

Blogger Naval_manual in the article “Five questions about the death of the Oslyabya” expressed the opinion that the cause of the catastrophic list was the 10th coal pit and, possibly, other holes not recorded by the Oslyabya crew.

Andrey from Chelyabinsk, the author of the articles "On the Causes of the Death of the Battleship Oslyabya" and "Two Bogatyrs. Why the Oslyabya Perished in Tsushima and the Peresvet Survived at Shantung" published on the website "Military Review", came to the conclusion that the Oslyabya lost stability as a result of uncontrolled flooding in the bow on the left side through faulty ventilation.

Schemes of the battleship "Oslyabya"


To visually perceive the information about the damage to the Oslyabya, the spread of water and the actions of the crew, the author has prepared several diagrams.


Scheme #1. Battleship Oslyabya. Holes received on the left side near the waterline


Scheme #2. Battleship Oslyabya. 1st and 2nd compartments of the living deck


Scheme #3. Battleship Oslyabya. Longitudinal section of the bow


Scheme #4. Battleship Oslyabya. Living deck


Scheme #5. Battleship Oslyabya. Lower deck


Scheme #6. Battleship Oslyabya. Hold

A hole in the 1st compartment of the living deck


At the very beginning of the battle, a large-caliber shell hit the 1st compartment of the living deck.

Information about this event is available to us from the following sources:

• Testimony of M.P. Sablin, who arrived shortly after entering the 1st compartment of the living deck to eliminate damage to the electrical wiring;
• Testimony of V.N. Zavarin, who climbed from the underwater mine apparatus room to the living deck to close the hatch;
• Memories of senior topman F.S. Lebedev, who supervised the sealing of the hole.

According to M. N. Sablin, this was "one of the first shots" (the Japanese opened fire on the Oslyabya at 13:52). V. N. Zavarin reported that the shell hit "no more than ten minutes after the start of the battle" (the Oslyabya began the battle at 13:49). Thus, the first hole near the waterline was received at about 13:55.

The location of the hole was most accurately indicated by M. P. Sablin: "near the 1st bow bulkhead", which ran along the 20th frame. Moreover, the hit was so close to the bulkhead that it was deformed, and thick smoke filled both the 1st and 2nd compartments of the living deck.

The position of the hole relative to the cargo waterline differs slightly in different sources. M. P. Sablin called it semi-submerged, V. N. Zavarin – above-water. F. S. Lebedev mentioned that the lower edge of the hole was at the waterline itself, when the water level on the living deck was “knee-deep”.

The dimensions of the hole were reported by F. S. Lebedev: it was “no less than two and a half meters in size” (approximately two spaces), which corresponds to the action of a 12-inch high-explosive shell (see diagram No. 1).

At the beginning of the Battle of Tsushima, the sea state reached 5 points, and waves rolled into the hole, which was on the windward side right at the waterline.

To seal the hole, a fire-holding division headed by F. S. Lebedev was called in. Standing knee-deep in water, the sailors began to install shields and mats. The work was slow, the water had already reached their waists when they finally managed to limit the flow of water.

While the hole was not yet completely sealed, water began to spill over the 305 mm edge of the coaming of the open hatch into the compartment of underwater mine apparatuses. V. N. Zavarin, who was below, went up to the deck, apparently entered the 1st compartment (otherwise, how would he have known the location of the hole and that it was sealed?), closed the hatch, went back down and battened down the neck behind him.

A little later, M.P. Sablin appeared in the 2nd compartment:

I wanted to go to the underwater vehicle compartment, but the hatch there was sealed and there were about two feet (about 60 cm) of water above it.

Returning to the underwater mine apparatus room, V. N. Zavarin noticed water coming through the ventilation pipes, the damage to which he associated with the hit in the 1st compartment. In the author's opinion, the ventilation pipes passing through the underwater mine apparatus room were damaged by another large projectile, since they were too far from the point of impact in the 1st compartment.

Thanks to the memories of sailors and officers that have come down to us, it is possible to recreate with high accuracy the picture of the destruction and flooding that resulted from the hit in the 1st compartment of the living deck (see diagrams No. 2 and 3).

The shell completely destroyed the pharmacy, destroyed two light cabin bulkheads and deformed the watertight bulkhead between the 1st and 2nd compartments of the living deck.

M. P. Sablin mentioned that through the open hatch, broken ventilation pipes and cracks in the deck, water penetrated into the forward ammunition magazine of the 6-inch guns and the Whitehead mine room (which he and V. N. Zavarin called the "under-turret compartment"). In addition, P. P. Durnovo, citing M. P. Sablin, reported that the explosion deformed the first watertight bulkhead, which is why the door in it could not be closed.

The "open hatch" refers to the armored cover over the companionway from the 2nd compartment of the living deck to the Whitehead mine room. It was most likely closed immediately after the water appeared.

One and a half meters from the impact site there was a 203 mm ventilation pipe for the ammunition magazine of the 6-inch guns, which was probably torn off by the explosion. Water gushed into the magazine through the hole formed in the deck, but the sailors who were there most likely sealed the pipe with improvised means.

About two meters from the impact site there was a pipe for the manual delivery of 6-inch and 47-mm shells to the battery deck. The explosion probably tore off this pipe as well, and the water rushed down and flooded the lantern enclosure, which had a door to the ammunition cellar.

No more than five meters from the impact site was an elevator for feeding 6-inch shells to the battery deck. Perhaps the shrapnel pierced its thin walls, and then water flooded the elevator shaft.

Water could have penetrated into the ammunition cellar of the 6-inch guns from the lantern enclosure and the elevator through leaks in the doors, but M.P. Sablin did not report this.

The "gaps in the deck" mentioned by M. P. Sablin apparently refer to the gaps that formed between the flooring of the living deck and the pipes that passed through it as a result of the deformation of the latter. The flooring of the living deck itself was made of two layers of steel with a total thickness of 63,5 mm, so the appearance of a through crack in it is extremely doubtful. The volume of water that penetrated through these gaps into the Whitehead mine room was apparently small, because V. N. Zavarin reported only one flooding path - through the ventilation system.

On the carapace deck, two chain lockers were guaranteed to be flooded; their hawse holes rose only 127 mm above the level of the living deck and did not have watertight covers.

Now we can summarize the consequences of the hit in the 1st compartment of the living deck. A huge, partially filled with water "bucket" formed on the living deck, more than 30 meters long (from the stem to the 30th frame) and up to 17 meters wide. Due to the large area of ​​the free surface of the incoming water, the metacentric height and, accordingly, the stability of the battleship were significantly reduced. A noticeable trim by the bow arose.

The hole was patched, but it was impossible to quickly drain this "bucket" due to the lack of effective standard means. Below the living deck, water completely flooded two chain lockers, penetrated into the Whitehead mine room and the ammunition cellar of the 6-inch guns.

Hole in the 2nd upper coal pit


The hole in the 2nd upper coal pit is mentioned in two sources.

Captain 1st Rank M. V. Ozerov, who commanded the battleship Sisoj Veliky, reported in his testimony to the Investigative Commission:

I believe that the armor plates on the left side of the Oslyaba opposite the command bridge fell off, since I clearly saw the burning side, and the list... formed quickly.

Galvaner K. S. Boltyshev conveyed the words of the hold sailors in his memoirs:

After several hits to the armor of the side opposite the conning tower, the plates began to fall off like damp plaster, and two new large shells hit the exposed unprotected side at the waterline and immediately broke through the entire gate. Water rushed in and quickly spread along the slope of the armored deck. A work division led by engineer Zmachinsky was called in to seal the hole, and they tried to close the hole with wooden shields, propping them up with stops. However, the wave knocks out the beams, and they have to work waist-deep in water. The spare coal pit on the slope has already been flooded, causing the ship to list.

Opposite the forward bridge and the conning tower there was the 2nd upper coal pit, which was not covered by the upper belt. Accordingly, no plates could fall off. The hole formed in the unarmored side.

The position of the hole relative to the cargo waterline is indicated as “at the waterline itself”, i.e. it is possible that its lower edge reached the main belt.

The size of the hole is described as "the entire gate". In theory, two close explosions from a salvo of Japanese 12-inch high-explosive shells could destroy an unarmored side the height of the interdeck space, i.e. 2,4 m, and the width of three or four frames, i.e. 3,7...4,9 m, which is quite consistent with the size of the gate (see diagram No. 1).

The sources do not indicate the time of impact, but it can be determined by indirect signs. Firstly, M. V. Ozerov saw a "burning side", and the fire could have started on the living deck only when it had not yet gone under water, i.e. in the first minutes of the battle. Secondly, both M. V. Ozerov and the hold sailors associated the occurrence of the list with the consequences of the hole in the 2nd coal pit.

"Oslyabya" had already started listing by 14:00 (below in the text the author examines this issue in more detail), so the hole in the 2nd coal pit was received at the very beginning of the battle, at approximately 13:55...14:00.

Hole in the 10th upper coal pit


We know about the 10th coal pit from the report of M.P. Sablin:

The shell hit the 10th coal pit on the left side, penetrating the armor.

M. P. Sablin did not indicate the exact time of the hit, but in the sequence of events he placed it “shortly after” the hole in the 1st compartment of the living deck, but before the failure of the bow turret.

In turn, the moment of damage to the bow turret can be clarified based on the recollections of K. S. Boltyshev – 10 minutes after the start of the battle, and O. A. Shcherbachev – no later than 10…15 minutes after the start of the battle.

The combat report of the Kasuga's commander at 14:00 recorded a large smoke column rising above the Oslyabya from an explosion. Most likely, it arose as a result of a hit to the bow turret.

Thus, the hole in the 10th coal pit was received at about 14:00, just a few minutes after the hole in the 1st compartment of the living deck.

Unfortunately, M.P. Sablin did not record either the exact location of the shell’s impact or the damage it caused.

The main belt of the Oslyabya was under water and had a thickness that practically excluded its perforation at the combat distance, which at that time did not exceed 4700 m. Therefore, in the author’s opinion, the Japanese shell penetrated the 102-mm plate of the upper belt.

Soon it became necessary to pump out water from the hold of the 2nd boiler room, so it can be assumed that the hole was of significant size and was located at the waterline, and water penetrated into the 10th and/or 12th lower coal pits through open hatches, damaged coal supply pipes or ventilation ducts (see diagrams No. 4, 5 and 6).

There is no information in the memoirs about attempts to seal the hole in the 10th coal pit. It is possible that all available emergency parties were already busy eliminating the consequences of the hits in the 1st compartment of the living deck and in the 2nd coal pit.

Hole in the 16th upper coal pit


The hole in the 16th coal pit is known to us from the memoirs of S. V. Gorchakov:

…I began to notice an increasing list, which was initially caused by underwater holes, the largest of which, as far as I remember, was in the rear 16th coal pit, from which the pit filled with water...

M. P. Sablin mentioned that water appeared in the spare magazine (spare powder chamber) of the 10-inch guns, which was located next to the 16th lower coal pit. Therefore, it can be assumed that both officers described the consequences of the same hit.

In the author's opinion, it is most likely that a Japanese armor-piercing shell penetrated the upper belt plate and exploded in the 16th upper coal pit near frame 61. The blast wave damaged the bulkhead between the coal pit and the living deck. Gases or fragments penetrated down through the hole in the slope of the armored deck for supplying coal and damaged the bulkhead between the 16th lower coal pit and the reserve ammunition magazine of the 10-inch guns (see diagrams No. 4, 5 and 6).

As a result of the damage received, water filled the 16th coal pit and penetrated into the reserve ammunition cellar of the 10-inch guns.

The approximate time of hitting the 16th coal pit can be determined from the report of M.P. Sablin: after the hole in the 10th coal pit, but before the damage to the bow turret, i.e. between 14:00 and 14:05.

The emergence of a list and the struggle for survivability


Numerous witnesses noticed the Oslyabya listing in the first minutes of the battle, around 14:00.

P. P. Durnovo observed the emergence of a list “after the very first shots.”

O. A. Shcherbachev recorded that already at approximately 14:00 the Oslyabya “listed to the left side and settled down with its bow.”

B. P. Kazmichev mentioned in his testimony that the ship “received several holes along the waterline and a slight list to the left” even before entering the wake of the 1st armored detachment, which occurred at 14:04.

The list was caused by holes in the 1st compartment of the living deck, in the 2nd, 10th and 16th coal pits and the flooding they caused.

Initially, the fight for survivability was led by senior officer D. B. Pokhvistnev, who personally went down to the holes in the 1st compartment of the living deck and the 2nd coal pit. However, he was soon seriously wounded, and his work was continued by the hold mechanic P. F. Uspensky.

M. P. Sablin turned on the 4th and 6th turbines to remove water coming from the coal pits through the inevitable leaks in the doors into the holds of the 1st and 2nd boiler rooms (see diagrams No. 4, 5 and 6).

To reduce the list, three side corridors on the starboard side were flooded, but these measures proved insufficient.

A hole in the living deck near the mine apparatus


The hole near the left-hand surface mine apparatus was described in the most detail by A.S. Novikov-Priboy in his story about the death of the Oslyabya:

About 20-30 minutes after the start of the battle, we got a second small hole opposite the left mine apparatus, above the waterline, where the armor ends. It was somehow patched up with so-called hawse-sacks.

The hit was received at approximately 14:10...14:20, when the Oslyabya already had a noticeable list, and only the upper edge of the 102-mm belt was above the waterline.

Most likely, the hole was formed as a result of the unsupported upper corner of the plate being pressed inwards and was a narrow but extended gap in the side plating between the 43rd and 44th frames (see diagram No. 1). The hawse bags mentioned in the text, which were used to plug the resulting gap, are canvas bags filled with hemp.

Japanese 8-12-inch shells repeatedly breached the side's tightness when hitting the armor belt and caused flooding of the side corridor located behind the armor. There was no side corridor in the area of ​​the Oslyabya surface mine apparatus. People on the living deck immediately discovered and patched the hole.

A hole in the 2nd compartment of the living deck


The breach in the 2nd compartment of the living deck is mentioned in three sources:

• Memories of F.S. Lebedev, who was in the neighboring 1st compartment at the time of impact;
• Stories of four wounded sailors from the Oslyabya, recorded by Prince S. V. Gorchakov in the Sasebo hospital;
• Notes by V.P. Kostenko, compiled, among other things, based on the recollections of other participants in the campaign and battle.

The location of the shell's impact is indicated in all three sources. In the memoirs of F. S. Lebedev, it is localized "no more than two meters from the first", that is, from the hole in the 1st compartment of the living deck. In the sailors' stories, "near the first bow hole on the left side, opposite the bow tower." In the notes of V. P. Kostenko, not one, but several shells hit "the waterline opposite the bow tower." On the living deck opposite the feed pipe of the bow tower were the conductors' cabins, which were most likely completely destroyed by the explosion.

According to the sailors, the hole was made at about 14:30. The Orel observed hits from 12-inch shells a few minutes before the ship went out of action. The Oslyabya left the formation at 14:32, but by that time the consequences of the hole had already become apparent in the form of a list and trim, so the time of its receipt was somewhere between 14:25 and 14:30.

The enormous size of the hole is emphasized in the sailors’ accounts: “The shell… caused such damage that the mines stored on the battleship fell overboard.”

The position of the hole relative to the load waterline is designated by F. S. Lebedev as "below the waterline". It is possible that its lower edge reached the armor belt, the upper edge of which at that moment was significantly lower than the load waterline (see diagram No. 1).

Through the destroyed side, water gushed into the 2nd and then into the 1st compartments of the living deck. There was a threat of death for the emergency crew working in the 1st compartment, about which F. S. Lebedev reported to P. S. Uspensky and, having received permission, evacuated the people.

It is most likely that it was this shell that damaged the ventilation pipes through which water began to flow into the compartments of the underwater mine apparatuses, dynamos and Whitehead mines (under-turret compartment).

V. N. Zavarin independently organized the fight for survivability. He ordered the ventilation pipes, through which the flooding of the underwater mine apparatus, dynamos and Whitehead mines occurred, to be sealed. He drained the water that had penetrated into the hold and turned on the 1st and 2nd water-drainage turbines to remove it (see diagrams No. 2 and 3).

Through a hole in the 2nd compartment of the living deck, the water that flooded the bow of the ship began to freely communicate with the sea, which dealt a terrible blow to the unsinkability of the Oslyabya.

According to the observations of O. A. Shcherbachev, the battleship sank “up to the hawse holes” and received a list of 12-15 degrees to the left side.

"Oslyabya" on the brink of death


Due to the increase in trim and list, the holes received earlier near the waterline were guaranteed to go under water. Now the 1st and 2nd compartments of the living deck, as well as the 2nd, 10th and 16th upper coal pits began to communicate freely with the sea. The area of ​​the cargo waterline was reduced by approximately 18%.

Is this a lot or a little? According to calculations by the famous shipbuilder N. E. Kuteinikov, in order to lose stability, the Borodino-class battleships with an initial metacentric height of 76 cm needed to lose 16% of the area of ​​the cargo waterline near the sides; the Japanese battleships with an initial metacentric height of 91 cm needed to lose about 17%.

In fact, the Oslyabya could have capsized after hitting the 2nd compartment of the living deck, but this did not happen because water through numerous holes also penetrated into the compartments located significantly below the cargo waterline, which prevented a catastrophic decrease in stability.

Due to the large list and increased draft, the broken ports of the lower 75mm battery came very close to the surface of the sea. Oslyabya was on the verge of destruction.

In a critical situation, the crew continued to fight for survivability. To reduce the list, they began to fill the aft ammunition magazines of the 6-inch starboard guns with water, which according to the specifications was allotted 15 minutes. The available technical means did not allow for faster counter-flooding.

The situation developed much more rapidly...

The Agony of Oslyabya


The final point in the fate of the Oslyabya was put by a new large shell, which hit the conning tower at approximately 14:32 and smashed the steering wheel.

The battleship lost control and, moving in a circle, went out of action to the right. The list to the left side increased so much that waves began to roll onto the battery deck through the holes in the side and the broken porticoes of the 75-mm guns. Now the fate of the Oslyabya was already decided.

The list increased with each passing minute. Water from the battery deck entered: through ventilation pipes and ammunition elevators - into the ammunition cellars, through ventilation pipes and coal loading pipes - into the coal pits, through exit shafts - into the boiler rooms. Flooding of compartments located deep below the waterline had a positive effect on stability, so the ship was in no hurry to capsize.

At the moment when Oslyabya leveled the rudder, the roll even decreased a little, but then began to increase again.

The bow section received the most damage during the battle, so the ship sank with a strong trim.

The agony of the Oslyabya lasted 10-15 minutes. When the list exceeded 30 degrees, the forecastle and upper deck began to go under water, which caused the cargo waterline area to shrink sharply, the battleship lost stability and lay on its side. At the same time, some reserve of buoyancy was still preserved, since the ship did not sink immediately, but stayed afloat for several more minutes.

Were the armor belt plates torn off?


A widely accepted version is that Japanese shells tore off one or two plates of the Oslyabya's armor belt, and then a huge hole formed in this place, from which the ship perished. It was most fully described by A. S. Novikov-Priboy in his story about the death of the Oslyabya:

About 30-40 minutes after the battle began, two or three shells hit the side armor between the left mine apparatus and the bathhouse. The blows were strong, but the armor barely held on, and it began to fall off in whole slabs, like plaster from an old building. When this place was completely exposed, another shell hit it, making a huge hole in the side! They didn’t even try to patch the hole. Water rushed noisily into the ship, spilling over the lower deck and getting into the cellars…

The fastening of the armour plates of the Oslyabya, like other pre-Tsushima ships, was far from perfect and suffered greatly from hits by large Japanese shells. According to contemporaries, the version of the armour plate being torn off was quite realistic. K. L. Shvede presented it to the Investigative Commission:

The enemy's high-explosive shells of 8, 10 and 12 inch calibers, when exploding on the armor, acted as a sharp blow. This blow caused a strong concussion: the bolts that fastened the armor to the jacket could not withstand two or three such concussions, the bolts gave way, and the armor came off the jacket, and with further hits the armor could easily be torn off, which is what happened, I believe, on the Oslyaba, where the armor was torn off. Another shell hit and tore a huge hole 7-8 feet (2,1-2,4 meters) in diameter.

V. P. Kostenko offered a similar explanation in his notes:

On the Oslyaba... the upper belt plates fell off on the left side between the mine surface apparatus and the bathhouse, and in the exposed place a high-explosive shell made a huge hole. One shell that hit the plate loosened it, another tore it off, a third made a hole in an exposed place.

The weakest point of the version about the slabs being torn off is the lack of any specific information. If there had been a witness who saw this hole with his own eyes, he would have definitely indicated its location, as well as the sections into which the water gushed. However, only fragmentary and contradictory information has reached us, which does not even allow us to localize the hole.

M. V. Ozerov and K. S. Boltyshev reported that the plates opposite the bow bridge had been torn off, but there was never any armor there.

The sailors rescued by the destroyer Bravy reported to P. P. Durnovo that the armor plate had fallen off due to a hit in the 10th coal pit. But we know that this hole was received at the beginning of the battle, and the ship's position began to rapidly deteriorate about half an hour later.

Most likely, the version about the fallen slabs did not arise out of nowhere, but in order to explain the unexpected flow of large volumes of water onto the living deck (which A.S. Novikov-Priboy mistakenly called "lower") in the space between the mine apparatus and the bathhouse, as well as into the ammunition cellars. Is it possible to refute the guesses that linked the water breakthrough with the breaking away of the slabs? Yes!

The first source of flooding of the residential deck was identified on site by M.P. Sablin:

When the list was very great and water began to pour onto the living deck through the hatches and ventilation from the battery, I went up to the battery deck and saw that water was pouring into the gun ports of the battery.

It can hardly be considered a coincidence that the porticoes of the 75-mm guns of the lower battery were located exactly above the space of the living deck from the mine apparatus to the bathhouse, where the water gushed according to A.S. Novikov-Priboy and V.P. Kostenko.

Having appeared on the battery deck, water inevitably began to penetrate into the ammunition cellars.

The second source of flooding of the residential deck was indicated by S. V. Gorchakov. The water, with its pressure, first bent and then broke through the bulkhead between the 16th coal pit and the residential deck.

This happened after the Oslyabya had already been put out of action, since only then could significant pressure on the bulkhead have arisen due to the resulting list. And, apparently, after M. P. Sablin had already climbed up to the battery deck along the ladder past the 16th coal pit, otherwise he would have noticed this breakthrough (see diagram No. 4).

The version about the plates being torn off cannot be applied to the hit in the 16th coal pit, because the catastrophic list did not arise from this hole received at the beginning of the battle, but on the contrary, the breakthrough of water onto the living deck was a consequence of the increase in the list and the increase in pressure on the bulkhead.

If there is no precise and consistent information about the location of the hole, and the consequences attributed to it were caused by completely different reasons, then the version about the torn-off slabs can only be classified as one of the myths about the death of the Oslyabya.

On the loss from two shells and the quality of construction of the Oslyabya


After a detailed examination of the circumstances of the death of the Oslyabya, we can confidently refute two more established myths.

The first is that the ship was destroyed by just two 12-inch shells that hit near the waterline.

This myth was created by publicists who, from N. P. Linevich’s telegram, obtained information about only two hits by 12-inch shells and did not bother to study other sources.

Now, after painstaking work with dozens of memories of the participants of the Tsushima battle, a different picture has emerged. "Oslyabya" found itself under unprecedentedly intense enemy fire and already 10-15 minutes after the start of the battle had at least four large holes near the waterline. Then, right up until its failure, the battleship continuously received new hits, which sent it to the bottom.

The second myth - that the quality of construction of Oslyabya was low - is directly connected with the first.

In order to explain the rapid destruction of a large ship from just two shells, an assumption was made that the bulkheads “could not hold” the water and it gradually flooded more and more compartments… Over time, the assumption turned into a firm belief.

This myth is also not confirmed. The memoirs of the Oslyabtsevs do not record a single case of water penetration through undamaged bulkheads.

Thus, there is no reason to doubt the high quality of the Oslyabya hull. The battleship's rapid demise was due to completely different reasons, which readers will learn about in the 5th, final article of the series.
Battleship Oslyabya. From the project to Tsushima
Battleship Oslyabya in the Battle of Tsushima
On the unsinkability of the battleship Oslyabya
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  1. +4
    21 February 2025 05: 05
    After a detailed examination of the circumstances of the death of the Oslyabya, we can confidently refute two more established myths.
    The first is that the ship was destroyed by only two 12-inch shells. This myth was created by publicists who, from N. P. Linevich's telegram, took information about only two hits by 12-inch shells and did not bother to study other sources.

    Now, after painstaking work with dozens of memories of participants in the Battle of Tsushima, a different picture has emerged. The Oslyabya found itself under unprecedentedly intense enemy fire and already 10-15 minutes after the start of the battle had at least four large holes near the waterline.

    It is important, while debunking myths, not to create new ones.
    The participants' recollections are, of course, good, but what kind of shooting accuracy did the Japanese have to show so that in 10-15 minutes two battleships were able to achieve at least four hits with 12" shells?
    The number of main caliber shells they fired during the Battle of Tsushima is known, and how many they could have fired at the Oslyaba in fifteen minutes can be estimated based on the information known to all of us.
    It wouldn’t have turned out that with four hits from 12” shells in 10-15 minutes, the percentage of hits from the main caliber guns of the battleships would have been implausibly high.
    1. +4
      21 February 2025 06: 51
      Quote: Comrade
      It wouldn’t have turned out that with four hits from 12” shells in 10-15 minutes, the percentage of hits from the main caliber guns of the battleships would have been implausibly high.

      Welcome hi . It is quite achievable, if we consider that at that critical moment "Oslyabya" was a practically immovable target, letting the "Borodinets" go ahead. Almost all Japanese ships "trained" on it. When the line was formed and the fire was transferred to other ships, the deed was already done. ..
      Purely hypothetically, if we assume that if each Japanese battleship fired one shell in 15 minutes, but all of them hit the bow in the area of ​​the waterline, then here is the result. Anything can happen in this world, I am not surprised by anything anymore. That's just how it turned out request
      1. +1
        21 February 2025 19: 53
        Hello, dear Andrey.
        Quote: Rurikovich
        if we assume that if each Japanese battleship was hit by one shell in 15 minutes

        You are missing the point that not all Japanese battleships fired at the Oslyaba.
        1. +3
          21 February 2025 21: 43
          Valentine hi , I said "if we admit it". The author in the previous material indicates that only "Mikasa" did not shoot at "Oslyaba". The rest all considered it an honor to shoot at the ship with the admiral's pennant
          At 13:52, Mikasa began firing at Knyaz Suvorov from a distance of 6400 m (35 cables). For all the other ships of the 1st detachment, the closest and most convenient target was the high-sided three-funnel battleship under the flag of Felkersam, which led the left column. After completing the "loop", fire was opened on Oslyaba in sequence: at 13:52 - Shikishima, at 13:53 - Fuji, at 13:54 - Asahi and Kasuga, at 13:57 - Nissin.

          Subsequently, due to their superior speed, the main forces went forward and transferred fire to the Borodinites, and the Oslyabya began to receive 8" high-explosive shells from Kamimura, which did not make the situation any easier.
          Yes, you know all this yourself. smile
          If the battle had started in the classic way and the Oslyaba had to shoot with one (maximum two) opponents, then I would really think about Japanese laser-guided shells, but alas - in the beginning of the battle the Oslyaba was getting hit by everyone. At least the author
          Already in the first minutes of the battle, Shikishima observed continuous hits from its shells on Oslyabya and numerous fires breaking out on it.

          At 13:56 Fuji noted the target being hit by one or more 12-inch shells, the foremast being knocked down and a large fire.

          Many cruisers of H. Kamimura's detachment also chose Oslyabyu as a target at the beginning of the battle. Iwate fired at it from its left side from 13:54 until it turned at 14:01. After completing the turn, they opened fire on the lead ship of the left column in sequence: Izumo at 13:57, Tokiwa at 13:59, Azuma at 14:00, and Yakumo at 14:04.
          1. +3
            22 February 2025 05: 10
            Hello Andrey !
            Quote: Rurikovich
            The author in the previous material points out that only Mikasa did not fire at Oslyaba.

            Sidorenko writes that "Asahi" did not fire either. In total, only "Shikishima" and "Fuji" fired at "Oslyaba" from the battleships.
            How they managed to hit four times with the main caliber guns is a question, considering that during training firing at a stationary target, "Shikishima" shot very poorly.

            Quote: Rurikovich
            At least from the author
            Already in the first minutes of the battle, Shikishima observed continuous hits from its shells on Oslyabya and numerous fires breaking out on it.

            At 13:56 Fuji noted the target being hit by one or more 12-inch shells, the foremast being knocked down and a large fire.

            Observers often see things that don't exist. From the commander of the Varyag to the commander of the Askold, they all "saw" sinking Japanese destroyers, which in fact didn't happen. We can also recall the commanders of the Port Arthur battleships, which they "saw." So, with all due respect, there is no way to take the observers' "observations" seriously.
    2. +2
      21 February 2025 07: 22
      Question: was the sunken ship itself found?
      Recently there was information that the Koreans found the Dmitry Donskoy and are going to raise it.
    3. +1
      21 February 2025 08: 56
      Quote: Comrade
      It wouldn’t have turned out that with four hits from 12” shells in 10-15 minutes, the percentage of hits from the main caliber guns of the battleships would have been implausibly high.

      Easy! If the distance was determined correctly, then for a 35 KB GK there should be about 80% hits. Another thing is that there are doubts that this is exactly a 12" caliber.
      1. +1
        21 February 2025 13: 51
        IMHO the hits on the 10th and 16th UYA are most likely 8-inch shells from some Izumo
        1. 0
          21 February 2025 19: 39
          Quote: rytik32
          IMHO the hits on the 10th and 16th UYA are most likely 8-inch shells from some Izumo

          It is quite enough to destroy the unarmored side, even the gate will be made especially paired hit. But it is the 10th and 16th holes behind the armor, albeit relatively thin. You claim that it was penetrated, although on the Orel even 12" shells with a 100 mm upper belt could not cope. There are some misunderstandings about these two hits. Perhaps a shift or a crack like on the Peresvet.
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 19: 41
            Quote: Saxahorse
            although on the Orel even 12" shells with a 100 mm upper belt couldn't cope

            But on Pobeda the armor was broken.
            Unless there is a shift or a crack like on Peresvet

            Then the flooding would be limited to the side corridors, as on the Peresvet
            1. +1
              21 February 2025 19: 52
              Quote: rytik32
              Then the flooding would be limited to the side corridors, as on the Peresvet

              On the contrary. The shift of the plate could damage the frames in the area of ​​the joint of the armored deck, which would lead to the appearance of a crack and flooding of the compartments below the armor without additional penetrations. There were mentions of the poorly thought-out design of this unit, and in my opinion, precisely in connection with Peresvet.
              1. 0
                21 February 2025 19: 54
                Quote: Saxahorse
                and flooding of compartments below the armor

                And what kind of compartments are there???
                There are the same side corridors.
                1. 0
                  21 February 2025 20: 15
                  Quote: rytik32
                  And what kind of compartments are there???
                  There are the same side corridors.

                  I'm not sure that there is a corridor below the armor. Judging by the section, there is a lower coal pit. And yes, I was wrong, the flooding through the curved frames happened in Sevastopol.
                  1. 0
                    21 February 2025 21: 16
                    I'm not sure that there is an armored corridor below.

                    100% below is the lower side corridor.
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2025 11: 03
                      Quote: rytik32
                      100% below is the lower side corridor.

                      Look at the image of coal in the diagram. Above you can see that the coal is adjacent to the bulkhead, but below it is directly adjacent to the frames. Perhaps this is the rack depicted.
                      1. 0
                        23 February 2025 10: 54
                        A more visual diagram of the midship section is in my previous article. Please take a look.
                      2. 0
                        23 February 2025 12: 45
                        Quote: rytik32
                        A more visual diagram of the midship section is in my previous article. Please take a look.

                        Yes, a beautiful coloring. Where is it from and why is it different from the drawings in Molodtsov's book?
                        The presence of a corridor in the hold is difficult to explain from a design point of view. Anti-torpedo bulkheads, as far as I remember, appeared only on the Borodinets.
                      3. 0
                        23 February 2025 17: 12
                        Quote: Saxahorse
                        Where is she from?

                        From the drawing album. Most of the diagrams in the article are from it, since this album is considered the latest, i.e. closest to the fact.
                        The presence of a corridor in the hold is difficult to explain from a structural point of view.

                        The side corridors are already specified in the specification. An extra bulkhead adds unsinkability. If the Titanic had one, it would have arrived without delay.
                        But the Japanese battleships did not have such a bulkhead.
                      4. 0
                        23 February 2025 18: 34
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The side corridors are already specified in the specification. The extra bulkhead adds to the unsinkability.

                        The side corridors are visible at the level of the armored deck. And only opposite the coal pits. But on the longitudinal plan of the hold they are also not visible, in the same Molodtsov it is visible that the coal pits are directly adjacent to the double bottom. In general, there is confusion here.
                      5. 0
                        23 February 2025 18: 38
                        You will see a normal drawing of the midship section.
                      6. 0
                        24 February 2025 00: 20
                        Quote: rytik32
                        You will see a normal drawing of the midship section.

                        I guessed what it was. The hold plan shows rectangles of ammunition magazines. They are right in the middle of the coal pits. This is not a bulkhead, but a section of the ammunition magazine box! good

                        By the way, it is impossible to flood such a cellar from the side of the damaged frame, only from above through hatches and elevators.
    4. +3
      21 February 2025 11: 55
      Valentine, good afternoon!
      Quote: Comrade
      It wouldn't have turned out that with four hits from 12" shells in 10-15 minutes, the percentage of hits from the main caliber guns of the battleships would have been implausibly high

      In my opinion, the hit percentage will be real if it is between 0% and 100%.
      So far, according to my estimates, everything remains within this limit.
      As for the accuracy of fire, in my opinion, in the Battle of Tsushima, the accuracy of Japanese fire from 12-inch guns could have reached at least 50%.
      Another example that confirms this is the hits on the starboard side of the "Eagle" in the last phase of the battle.
      1. +1
        21 February 2025 19: 45
        Hello, dear Alexey.
        Quote: rytik32
        In my opinion, in the Battle of Tsushima, the accuracy of Japanese fire from 12-inch guns could have reached at least 50%.

        How do you determine this if only two squadron battleships survived, and therefore it is impossible to count the hits on the others?
        1. 0
          21 February 2025 19: 52
          Let's take "Eagle" in the last phase of the battle.
          According to Shvede's report, 15 12-inch shells hit it during this phase.
          In this phase, according to Japanese data, the following fired at the Orel:
          Fuji 6:17 - 6:35
          Mikasa 6:33 - 6:42
          Fuji 6:51 - 6:58
          Further, knowing the number of 12-inch guns (3 per battleship at that time) and their actual rate of fire, one can calculate the approximate accuracy.
          1. +1
            21 February 2025 20: 02
            Quote: rytik32
            Let's take "Eagle" in the last phase of the battle.
            According to Shvede's report, 15 12-inch shells hit it during this phase.

            Is there any objective data confirming this figure? If not, then Shvede's data can be organically supplemented by Kostenko's data on the total number of 12'' shells that hit the Orel.
            Can you remind me how many? The number fifty-six "suitcases" is floating around, but I could be wrong.
            1. 0
              21 February 2025 21: 15
              Is there any objective data to support this figure?

              Most of them are confirmed by photographs or data from Japanese and English sources. I can only question some of the hits to the armor.
              Which of the hits listed in Shvede's report in the last phase of the battle do you consider questionable?
              And what about the hits on the sunken battleships, how did you count how many “suitcases” hit them?

              I didn't count them. I counted the accuracy in individual episodes of the battle.
              1. 0
                21 February 2025 22: 31
                Quote: rytik32
                Most of them are confirmed by photographs.

                With indication of the time of impact?

                Quote: rytik32
                or data from Japanese and English sources.

                And the caliber 12'' and the time of impact are also indicated? Both for the British and the Japanese?
                1. 0
                  21 February 2025 22: 57
                  Quote: Comrade
                  With indication of the time of impact?

                  That's what's so good about the starboard side of the "Eagle" - at other times it wasn't hit by 12-inch shells.
                  And the caliber is also indicated as 12''

                  The caliber for most hits is indicated.
                  I repeat the question.
                  Which of the hits listed in Shvede's report in the last phase of the battle do you consider questionable?
                  1. +1
                    22 February 2025 00: 16
                    Quote: rytik32
                    Which of the hits listed in Shvede's report in the last phase of the battle do you consider questionable?

                    The non-hits are questionable; the identification of the caliber of the shells that hit is questionable.

                    Kostenko’s figure raises doubts, but do you believe it?
                    1. 0
                      23 February 2025 10: 48
                      The identification of the caliber of the shells that hit is questionable

                      In theory, the Kasuga could have achieved several hits (~8 minutes of fire), which would have resulted in 15 12-inch and 4 8...10-inch hits.
                      There were several 8-inch hits on the starboard side (G, H on the well-known Japanese diagram, also not marked on it in the conning tower and the forward and middle turrets of the SK) - they are not included in the 19 hits indicated above.
                      Here is Kostenko's figure

                      I might publish in LJ diagrams and descriptions of hits on the "Orel", which can be estimated at 12 dm or 8...12 dm.
                      1. +1
                        23 February 2025 15: 52
                        Hello, Alexey.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        I might publish in LJ diagrams and descriptions of hits on the "Eagle", which can be estimated at 12 dm or 8...12 dm.

                        So Japanese specialists identified fifteen hits by 12'' shells on the Orel's left side?
                        And are their conclusions present in some documents?
                      2. 0
                        23 February 2025 17: 47
                        I have at least three Japanese sources, two of which have estimates of the caliber of the shells that hit.
                        With the left side, by the way, everything is much better, because there are photos.
                      3. 0
                        23 February 2025 19: 18
                        Quote: rytik32
                        I have at least three Japanese sources, two of which have estimates of the caliber of the shells that hit.

                        Perfectly.
                        So the Japanese counted fifteen hits from 12" shells on the port side, and reflected this on diagrams, photographs and in descriptions?
                      4. 0
                        23 February 2025 19: 29
                        Quote: Comrade
                        So the Japanese counted fifteen hits from 12" shells on the port side, and reflected this on diagrams, photographs and in descriptions?

                        The number of hits estimated at 12 inches varies in different Japanese sources.
                      5. 0
                        23 February 2025 19: 50
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The number of hits estimated at 12 inches varies in different Japanese sources.

                        And what Japanese source confirms fifteen on the left side?
                      6. 0
                        23 February 2025 19: 55
                        There is no Japanese source that would estimate 15 hits by 12-inch shells on the left side of the Orel.
                      7. 0
                        23 February 2025 20: 35
                        Quote: rytik32
                        There is no Japanese source that would estimate 15 hits by 12-inch shells on the left side of the Orel.

                        The Japanese would be surprised if they read the numbers of Shvede and Kostenko.
                        laughing
                      8. 0
                        23 February 2025 20: 47
                        Have you read the interview of the Kasuga officers with the Asahi Shibun (a newspaper)? It contains information about the number of hits above the VL and their caliber.
                      9. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 25
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Have you read the interview of the Kasuga officers with the Asahi Shibun (a newspaper)? It contains information about the number

                        Have you read in the Russian official media what one Japanese officer told Russian captured officers?
                        Allegedly, the Japanese had an optical rangefinder in each casemate on their battleships, and before the Battle of Tsushima, each main caliber gun on the battleships fired five rounds of ammunition, after which the Japanese replaced all the guns with new ones and went into battle.
                        That's what he said, and our people took it at face value. And they printed it in the official press.
                      10. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 44
                        Quote: Comrade
                        what one Japanese officer told Russian captured officers

                        This is an exclusively Russian invention. It is given away by the reliance on rangefinders and training with shooting from combat weapons. As we know, the Japanese specified the distance by sighting, adjusted according to the signs of falls and trained by shooting from barrels.
                      11. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 50
                        Quote: rytik32
                        This is a purely Russian invention. It is given away by the reliance on rangefinders and training with shooting from combat weapons. How

                        That is, the Japanese did not determine the distance with rangefinders, and did not conduct training firing from “combat” weapons?
                      12. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 58
                        Quote: Comrade
                        The Japanese did not determine the distance with rangefinders

                        They determined it. But they didn’t trust him.
                        no training firing was carried out from "combat" weapons

                        They did, but these shootings were far from combat conditions. Barrel shootings were much closer.
                      13. 0
                        24 February 2025 03: 18
                        Hello, Alexey.
                        Quote: rytik32
                        They determined it. But they didn’t trust him.

                        Quote: rytik32
                        They did, but these shootings were far from combat conditions. Barrel shootings were much closer.

                        You and I have come to the conclusion that the Japanese used rangefinders in combat, and conducted training fire from guns.

                        But how did you see the message supposedly " exclusively Russian invention "what the Japanese allegedly did " bet on rangefinders and training with live-fire weapons " ?
                        From the Japanese officer's assertion that supposedly each casemate and each tower had a rangefinder, it does not follow that the Japanese relied on them. As is known, a messenger regularly ran into each tower and each casemate and showed the gunners a sign on which the current rangefinder readings were written. Is this also confirmation that the Japanese relied on the rangefinder readings?
                        The Japanese officer's fantasy is more like a dream - to put a rangefinder there instead of a messenger running back and forth. You can often measure the distance yourself, rather than rely on a messenger.
                      14. 0
                        24 February 2025 09: 10
                        Quote: Comrade
                        on which the current rangefinder readings were written

                        No, there were no rangefinder readings there.

                        In addition to the rangefinder, an officer had to be placed in each casemate to calculate the corrections.
                  2. +2
                    22 February 2025 08: 11
                    Quote: rytik32
                    Which of the hits listed in Shvede's report in the last phase of the battle do you consider questionable?

                    Alpeksey, you yourself admitted that a significant part of them can be interpreted as 8-12-dm
                    1. 0
                      23 February 2025 10: 52
                      Based on the action - yes. But you have to make sure that the accuracy of "Kasuga" does not exceed 100% )))
                      1. +1
                        23 February 2025 10: 59
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Based on the action - yes. But you have to make sure that the accuracy of "Kasuga" does not exceed 100% )))

                        Well, it wasn't only Kasuga who shot at our ships in the 3rd phase.
                      2. +1
                        23 February 2025 11: 45
                        The "Eagle" was fired upon by "Mikasa", "Fuji", "Kasuga". No one else.
                        The hits were clearly not from 6-inch shells. Moreover, these 3 ships fired from 6-inch guns at the very beginning of the phase, then were unable to because of the sun.
                      3. +1
                        23 February 2025 13: 50
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The "Eagle" was fired upon by "Mikasa", "Fuji", "Kasuga". No one else.

                        The armored cruisers of the 2nd detachment could well
                      4. +1
                        23 February 2025 17: 08
                        No, they did not fire at the lead Russian ships, only at the rear ones.
                      5. +1
                        23 February 2025 18: 53
                        And during the battle with the cruisers, between the 2nd and 3rd phases? "Eagle" was also fighting with its starboard side at that time.
                        But in general
                        Quote: rytik32
                        According to Shvede's report, 15 12-inch shells hit it during this phase.
                        In this phase, according to Japanese data, the following fired at the Orel:
                        Fuji 6:17 - 6:35
                        Mikasa 6:33 - 6:42
                        Fuji 6:51 - 6:58
                        Further, knowing the number of 12-inch guns (3 per battleship at that time) and their actual rate of fire, one can calculate the approximate accuracy.

                        Rather, we should assume obvious errors in the Japanese documents. In roughly half an hour of fire, the Japanese could have spent... Well, how many? 20-25 shells? And achieve 15 hits on Shveda? In conditions and at a distance when 6-inch guns could not have been fired most of the time, according to the documents? And given that shortly before Tsushima, the Japanese showed only 12,5% accuracy of main guns at the island from 15-50 cable lengths? And "Shikishima", standing at anchor, on April 25 at 29 cable lengths from the island, did not hit it even once out of four shells?
                        It is, of course, your right to think as you see fit.
        2. +1
          21 February 2025 20: 06
          And what about the hits on the sunken battleships, how did you count how many “suitcases” hit them?
  2. kig
    -7
    21 February 2025 05: 30
    Can you tell us about the cruiser Moskva?
    1. +2
      21 February 2025 05: 44
      Quote: kig
      Can you tell us about the cruiser Moskva?

      The Death of the Cruiser Moskva, or Where Did the Missiles Hit?
      https://topwar.ru/198800-gibel-krejsera-moskva-ili-kuda-popali-rakety-.html
      1. kig
        0
        21 February 2025 06: 30
        Wow, didn't know this was discussed already. Interesting.
    2. +1
      21 February 2025 13: 10
      "Can you tell me about the cruiser Moskva?"
      Yes, it is possible. According to the official version, a fire broke out on the ship and it sank in the conditions of a severe storm while being towed. All other versions are speculations of ill-wishers.
      1. -3
        21 February 2025 17: 41
        Quote: belost79
        According to the official version, a fire broke out on the ship.

        And the fire started from the kettle. sad
        1. kig
          +1
          21 February 2025 21: 03
          Quote: mark1
          And the fire started from the kettle

          I worked on a steamship where the captain was terribly chasing everyone for the kettles in the cabins. At the same time, in my memory, only twice did his kettle boil over and the table on which it stood start smoking.
  3. +3
    21 February 2025 05: 52
    Quote: kig
    Can you tell us about the cruiser Moskva?

    Woof-woof-woof!
  4. +2
    21 February 2025 08: 48
    Thanks for continuing, Alexey!
    I would like to note that thin armor plates tend to work like membranes when hit and exploded on the surface. Therefore, it is not surprising that they were torn off their fastenings "like plaster". Actually, the refusal of cemented relatively thin frontal plates of the main caliber turrets on the last American and Japanese battleships is largely due to this circumstance. With formal failure to penetrate the cemented armor, shells damaged the structure of the turret, putting it out of action, while thicker homogeneous armor absorbed the impact like a monolith, preventing deformation of the structures.
  5. +1
    21 February 2025 08: 58
    It’s interesting, but there are questions about the diagrams, especially the names of the sections, and the descriptions of eyewitnesses sometimes cause confusion.
    1. 0
      21 February 2025 19: 43
      Quote: Saxahorse
      but there are questions about the diagrams

      Specifically, I would like to clarify what the inscriptions on diagram 2 mean and how they relate to the compartments below the armored deck. In general, what is this?
      1. +1
        21 February 2025 21: 17
        These numbers are the signatures of the ventilation pipes. What section do they ventilate and what diameter do they have.
        1. 0
          22 February 2025 11: 01
          Quote: rytik32
          These numbers are the signatures of the ventilation pipes. What section do they ventilate and what diameter do they have.

          Wow! There are as many holes in there as Swiss cheese! I don't remember exactly, but each 6" hole is like 500 tons per hour.
          1. 0
            23 February 2025 10: 53
            Quote: Saxahorse
            it's like about 500 tons per hour

            Depends on the height of the water column. Calculation formulas exist.
  6. +2
    21 February 2025 09: 02
    Alexey, good morning!
    Thank you very much for the visual diagrams. You have done a great job.
    M. P. Sablin mentioned that through an open hatch, broken ventilation pipes and cracks in the deck, water penetrated into the forward ammunition magazine of the 6-inch guns and the Whitehead mine room (which he and V. N. Zavarin called the “under-turret compartment”).

    In fact, the under-turret compartment, the 6-inch gun magazine and the Whitehead mine room are completely different rooms. What gave you reason to believe that both Sablin and Zavarin mixed up the rooms of their own battleship? Is there any evidence to support this assumption?
    In addition, P. P. Durnovo, citing M. P. Sablin, reported that the explosion deformed the first watertight bulkhead, which is why the door in it could not be closed.

    Could you please clarify where it was located so that there are no discrepancies?
    One and a half meters from the point of impact there was a 203-mm ventilation pipe for the ammunition magazine of the 6-inch guns, which was probably torn off by the explosion. Water gushed into the magazine through the hole formed in the deck, but the sailors who were there, probably, We sealed the pipe with improvised means.

    What gives you reason to assume such a development of events?
    The "gaps in the deck" mentioned by M. P. Sablin apparently refer to the gaps that formed between the flooring of the living deck and the pipes that passed through it as a result of the deformation of the latter. The flooring of the living deck itself was made of two layers of steel with a total thickness of 63,5 mm, so the appearance of a through crack in it is extremely doubtful.

    Or the presence of cracks not associated with combat damage.
    The hole in the 2nd upper coal pit is mentioned in two sources.

    And, most likely, it never existed, since both Ozerov and Boltyshev could have confused it with the first breach - in the 1st compartment of the living deck.
    After a detailed examination of the circumstances of the death of the Oslyabya, we can confidently refute two more established myths.
    The first is that the ship was destroyed by just two 12-inch shells that hit near the waterline.

    I'm really looking forward to the refutation. Will it be in the 5th article?
    The second myth - that the quality of construction of Oslyabya was low - is directly connected with the first.

    Unfortunately, the reasons you have given so far (that "Oslyabya" passed the tests of filling the compartments with water) do not confirm this thesis. Passing these tests is not equivalent to the quality of construction.
    1. +3
      21 February 2025 12: 00
      Andrei, good afternoon!
      What gave you reason to believe that both Sablin and Zavarin mixed up the premises of their own battleship?

      They didn't mix anything up. The room that is marked on the drawing as "Whitehead mine room" was often called "under-turret compartment". I used the name as on the drawing to avoid confusion. Because the room below was also called "under-turret compartment".
      What gives you reason to assume such a development of events?

      Zavarin's actions. Cherkasov's comments.
      There were people in the cellar according to the combat schedule, it was logical for them to plug the leak.
      1. +2
        21 February 2025 12: 40
        Quote: rytik32
        The room marked on the drawing as the "Whitehead mine room" was often referred to as the "under-turret compartment".

        Thanks for the clarification, it really is under the turret. But why do you write the same thing about the 6-inch gun cellar, which was in a completely different place? Who and when called it the under-turret compartment?
        Quote: rytik32
        Zavarin's actions. Cherkasov's comments.

        In my opinion, their testimony directly contradicts your conclusion. Both of them directly or indirectly show flooding of compartments below the armored deck, which does not fit with your thesis.
        Quote: rytik32
        There were people in the cellar according to the combat schedule, it was logical for them to plug the leak.

        It makes sense, but they just couldn't do it.
    2. +4
      21 February 2025 13: 02
      Or the presence of cracks not associated with combat damage

      Sablin writes "gaps that formed in the deck."
      Can you guess what caused these cracks, other than combat damage, and where they formed?
      Ozerov and Boltyshev could have been confused

      There was no way to confuse the coal pit and the living deck.
      Zmachinsky and Lebedev.
      Ozerov saw a fire, but there was no fire in the 1st compartment of the living deck.
      so far the reasons you have given (that "Oslyabya" passed the tests of filling the compartments with water) do not confirm this thesis

      There is not a single recorded case of "the bulkhead giving in". The same Ferran writes about the spread of water only because he is not familiar with the details of the events that took place. And he writes as an assumption, not as a fact.
      You write the same thing about the 6-inch gun cellar.

      This is what Sablin writes: three rooms and the ways of their flooding, the division. Therefore, it is not clear which of them and how the water got into. I am analyzing his testimony.
      Both of them directly or indirectly show flooding of compartments below the armor deck.

      Cherkasov was not there...
      Zavarin writes about water penetration, but does not write about complete flooding.
      In any case, the Oslyabya perished from a reduction in the area of ​​the gypsum fiberboard, and not from water penetration under the armored deck.
      they might not have been able to do it

      I agree, it is impossible to say 100% that they sealed the ventilation pipe. But the probability is clearly more than 50%.
      1. +2
        21 February 2025 13: 25
        Quote: rytik32
        Can you guess what caused these cracks, other than combat damage, and where they formed?

        Quote: rytik32
        There has not been a single recorded case of a "bulkhead failing".

        So far, at the level of assumptions. Your work has awakened in me a serious interest in the quality of work of state-owned factories, now I am collecting materials and preparing articles devoted to this issue. I have not read everything yet, I think I will sort out the sources in 2-3 weeks.
        Quote: rytik32
        There was no way to confuse the coal pit and the living deck.
        Zmachinsky and Lebedev.

        Well, you yourself write that Boltyshev is reporting this from hearsay.
        Quote: rytik32
        This is what Sablin writes: three rooms and the ways of their flooding are divided. Therefore, it is not clear which of them and how the water got into.

        I don't understand here
        Quote: rytik32
        Zavarin writes about water penetration, but does not write about complete flooding.

        I just wonder where the trim of more than a meter came from, as a result of which the sailors were working waist-deep in water and there was a 60 cm layer of water above the hatch to the underwater vehicles.
        Quote: rytik32
        In any case, the Oslyabya perished from a reduction in the area of ​​the gypsum fiberboard, and not from water penetration under the armored deck.

        Where does the trim on the hawse pipe come from then?
        Quote: rytik32
        I agree, it is impossible to say 100% that they sealed the ventilation pipe. But the probability is clearly more than 50%.

        "Retvizan" does not agree with you
        1. +2
          21 February 2025 13: 47
          Could you please clarify where it was located so that there are no discrepancies?

          Bulkhead along frame 20, door is visible on the diagram.
          I just wonder where the difference of more than a meter came from.

          In the evening I will calculate how much water needs to be poured in to get a trim of 1 meter.
          Where does the trim on the hawse pipe come from then?

          Also due to the reduction in the area of ​​gypsum fiber sheets.

          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          "Retvizan" does not agree with you

          I have not studied the Retvizan case. I do not have any drawings of its ventilation. Perhaps there was no one in the flooded rooms. Or there was no way to close the pipes.
          After all, its ventilation system was of a completely different design than that of ships built in Russia.
          1. 0
            21 February 2025 15: 23
            Quote: rytik32
            Bulkhead along frame 20, door is visible on the diagram.

            Thank you!
            Quote: rytik32
            Also due to the reduction in the area of ​​gypsum fiber sheets.

            Alexey, there is a strong belief that the flooding is the cause, and the reduction in the area of ​​the GVL is the consequence. Although it is generally difficult to understand why you think that the area was reduced - the contours suggest that in the bow it grew during immersion
            1. +3
              21 February 2025 15: 43
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              why do you think the area was shrinking

              Compartments that freely communicate with the sea are excluded from the GVL area. They are highlighted in blue on the living deck diagram.
              1. 0
                21 February 2025 16: 09
                Quote: rytik32
                Compartments that freely communicate with the sea are excluded from the area of ​​the GVL.

                That is, you believe that flooding of the living deck without water penetrating below could have led to a trim first by a meter, and then up to the hawse holes?
                1. 0
                  21 February 2025 21: 19
                  I calculated. In order for the bow to sink by 1 meter, 77 tons of water must be poured in, provided that its center of gravity is located at the 18th frame.
                  1. +1
                    21 February 2025 21: 28
                    Quote: rytik32
                    I calculated. In order for the bow to sink by 1 meter, 77 tons of water must be poured in, provided that its center of gravity is located at the 18th frame.

                    Alexey, you counted very poorly.
                    1. 0
                      21 February 2025 21: 45
                      77 tons * 48,8 meters (from the center of gravity) we get 3757,6 ton-force-meters.
                      The moment of measuring the trim at 1 foot is 1143 ton-force-meters (see Melnikova).
                      3757,5/1143 = 3,29 feet or 1 meter
                      1. +1
                        22 February 2025 07: 53
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The moment of measuring the trim at 1 foot is 1143 ton-force-meters (see Melnikova).

                        Alexey, I'm too lazy to look at how correctly you calculate ton-force-meters. That's why I'm just looking at Melnikov (attached)
                        Quote: rytik32
                        3757,5/1143 = 3,29 feet or 1 meter

                        3,29 inches, not feet
                      2. 0
                        23 February 2025 10: 51
                        Thanks for correcting that.
                        I've just looked through the calculations. I found another mistake. This moment was measured in ton-force-feet.
                      3. +1
                        23 February 2025 10: 58
                        Good afternoon!
                        Quote: rytik32
                        I've just looked through the calculations. I found another mistake. This moment was measured in ton-force-feet.

                        By the way, I also noticed this - according to Slava, Vinogradov uses ton-force-feet. But here it seems to be a handwritten text, and clearly not feet. A typo? Slava has 1103,8 ton-feet per inch
                      4. +1
                        23 February 2025 11: 42
                        In terms of ton-force-feet. The moment is slightly greater than that of the "Slava" because the "Peresvet" is slightly longer. So everything fits together.
                      5. +1
                        23 February 2025 12: 00
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Meaning ton-force-feet. The torque is slightly greater than that of the Slava due to the Peresvet being slightly longer.

                        And already, but here it will be difficult for me to understand the reason. If we are not mistaken, the Oslyabya could have received a trim of one meter, having 281 tons, applied at a distance of 48,8 m from the center of gravity.
                      6. 0
                        23 February 2025 18: 27
                        About 70 tons of water poured into the chain boxes.
                        In other rooms, including the slope opposite the point of impact - let it be 18 tons.
                        On the living deck 193 tons at the rate of 60 cm with a uniform layer. At the place of the hole it would be about waist-deep. But this is "by eye". It is better to model this in 3D
                      7. +1
                        23 February 2025 18: 41
                        Quote: rytik32
                        On the living deck 193 tons based on 60 cm in a uniform layer.

                        How did you figure that? You wrote it yourself.
                        A huge, partially water-filled “bucket” formed on the living deck, more than 30 meters long (from the stem to the 30th frame) and up to 17 meters wide

                        Well, on the diagram this area is very similar to an isosceles triangle, accordingly, its area is 30 * 17/2 = 255 sq.m * 0,6 = 153 cubic meters of water. Even with the correction for salinity, 193 t somehow does not work out.
                      8. 0
                        23 February 2025 20: 01
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Even with the correction for salinity, 193 t somehow doesn’t work out.

                        Far from being an isosceles triangle, but rather something of an ogival shape
                      9. +1
                        23 February 2025 20: 26
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Far from being an isosceles triangle, but rather something of an ogival shape

                        Let's take a look at your diagram.
                2. 0
                  22 February 2025 03: 29
                  Of course it could. There is no volume there. And that means there is no height of the side and no reserve of buoyancy. In such cases, a picture can arise when the weight of the water creates a local heeling force. In this case, it capsizes the ship. And here is the question: can it then be compensated for by the lateral shift of the Archimedes force. If the MV was initially small, then easily.
                  There were cases with clippers when a wave caught up with them. The sharp contours did not allow them to float up and the ship capsized sharply. Being completely serviceable.
                  1. 0
                    22 February 2025 03: 58
                    I'll add - the stern contours.
                    But when ships disappeared without a trace, it could have been the bow lines.
                    At the same time, clippers were ships with a very low deck and, accordingly, a very low side.
                  2. +1
                    22 February 2025 08: 21
                    Quote: MCmaximus
                    Of course it could. There was no volume there. And that means there was no height on the side and no reserve buoyancy.

                    I asked you about the trim, and you didn't answer me. And there was a ton of "buoyancy reserve", which is measured by the volume of the hull between the cargo waterline and the upper edge of the side, just a second
                    1. +1
                      22 February 2025 14: 47
                      If water splashes on top of the deck, then there is no height of the side, no reserve of buoyancy in this place. Maybe in another, but not in this one.
                    2. 0
                      22 February 2025 14: 56
                      And some "Oprichnik" would lay its sails sharply and reliably, without trim and being completely in good working order.
                3. +1
                  22 February 2025 16: 29
                  Everything is simple here. The list or trim stops increasing, there is a corresponding volume of the freeboard under the weight of the water taken in. Undamaged. If this side lets water through, then nothing prevents the list or trim from increasing. Newton's 3rd law. If the weight is not compensated by the reaction - the Archimedes force, then the ship submerges further with its part. And it is not so important how much water it took in.
                  So you don't have to count. The descriptions are enough to understand the picture.
                  1. 0
                    25 February 2025 18: 18
                    I forgot to add. It is also necessary to take into account that in such a situation the entire weight of the iron still above the water begins to press the ship into the water. Metal has negative buoyancy((.
                    So the effect is devastating. It is not for nothing that after Tsushima, our guys came up with the idea to remove any openings in the case above the overhead line.
            2. 0
              21 February 2025 16: 59
              The picture here is very similar to the beginning of "Titanic". First a slight trim, and then water pours in from above. And then a combination of factors. Water below = trim, water above = lowering of the metacenter.
              Well, then a couple of shells above the waist and that's it.
              1. +1
                21 February 2025 17: 17
                The thing is that the Titanic's lower compartments were flooded. Which is what led to its demise, by the way.
                1. 0
                  21 February 2025 18: 12
                  First the bottom ones, then the top ones.
                  The spread of water went to the top.
                  1. +2
                    21 February 2025 18: 39
                    Quote: MCmaximus
                    First the bottom ones, then the top ones.

                    Maxim, the Titanic plowed the iceberg with its bow with a glancing blow and got a bunch of holes below the waterline over a length of 90 meters, with 7 meters below the waterline. Water gushed in there and the ship began to sit down with its bow. There is no
                    Quote: MCmaximus
                    slight trim,

                    there, excuse me, a fucking awesome trim was planned:)))) The Titanic was flooded by 5 forward compartments, and nothing could be done about it. Therefore, it is possible to say that Oslyabya perished, like the Titanic, only if you share the version about the flooding of the forward compartments of the former below the armored deck. Which, in fact, is what happened
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2025 03: 21
                      I know very well how the Titanic sank.
                      Oslyabya also first had flooding in the lower sections (from above, not from below, so what?), and then the water started flowing along the top.
                      The water eventually spread from above. Here's the analogy. The Titanic had no bulkheads, and the Oslyabya had everything smashed. But the picture is the same.
                      Spreading water, not destruction. Do you understand? That's what I mean.
                      1. +1
                        22 February 2025 08: 22
                        Quote: MCmaximus
                        Oslyabya also received flooding of the lower compartments at first

                        Well, the author of the article believes that there was no flooding.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2025 14: 50
                        Hatches, ventilation. No? Considering the overload, not much is needed. Especially when this moment is not compensated by flooding from the opposite end. Then the water is higher and that's it. This is a standard situation for ships. And there, anything is possible. Spread downwards or just a free surface that sways as it pleases.
                    2. 0
                      22 February 2025 03: 54
                      I'll note that this pile of holes had a total area of ​​about 1 square meter. More precisely, a little more. It was a real scratch.
                      1. +1
                        22 February 2025 08: 28
                        Quote: MCmaximus
                        I'll note that this pile of holes had a total area of ​​about 1 square meter. More precisely, a little more. It was a real scratch.

                        Firstly, this is just an assumption made by people who were not on the Titanic but who analyzed its sinking. Secondly, it does not matter, because the question is not how big the hole is, but whether it can be repaired and, if not, how much water is coming through it and whether the pumps can handle that amount of water.
                        The same experts indicated that 7 tons per second were pouring into the Titanic, which the pumps were unable to pump out.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2025 14: 54
                        This is simply the speed of flooding of those volumes-compartments that were flooded. If the doors in the bulkheads had not been closed, the Titanic would have lasted another three hours. It was a big liner.
                        And fighting with pumps against a leaky compartment is not a fun thing. The holes are small, of course, but they are under water. There is some pressure.
                2. +1
                  22 February 2025 04: 14
                  Its lower compartments were flooded. And that was it. The bulkheads were sealed and everything was fine. There was plenty of buoyancy. That was everyone's thought. And the water came from above. Where there were no bulkheads.
        2. +1
          21 February 2025 16: 51
          The pressure from the stroke can easily create large volumes of water inside. If there is something to fill in, but nothing to drain.
      2. 0
        23 February 2025 14: 59
        Good afternoon.
        Dear Alexey, thank you for continuing.
        The "gaps in the deck" mentioned by M. P. Sablin apparently refer to the gaps that formed between the flooring of the living deck and the pipes that passed through it as a result of the deformation of the latter. The flooring of the living deck itself was made of two layers of steel with a total thickness of 63,5 mm, so the appearance of a through crack in it is extremely doubtful. The volume of water that penetrated through these gaps into the Whitehead mine room was apparently small, because V. N. Zavarin reported only one flooding path - through the ventilation system.

        Sablin writes "gaps that formed in the deck."
        Can you guess what caused these cracks, other than combat damage, and where they formed?

        These two statements do not agree with each other. I will give one example regarding the damage to the deck. When shelling the old battleship "la Belliqueuse", the French used not only medium-caliber artillery, but also fired shots from 270 mm caliber guns, with shells loaded with melinite. The shooting was conducted above the waterline, it was necessary to determine the effect of the shell explosion on the decks and bulkheads. The deck received serious damage, with a violation of the tightness, from the impact of the blast wave and shell fragments. I would not consider the deck on the battleship "la Belliqueuse" a full-fledged armored deck, but experiments show that the occurrence of "cracks" on the deck during the explosion of a large-caliber shell is quite acceptable.
        Now the 1st and 2nd compartments of the living deck, as well as the 2nd, 10th and 16th upper coal pits, began to communicate freely with the sea. The area of ​​the cargo waterline was reduced by approximately 18%.

        It is difficult to agree with the 18% reduction, for this it is necessary to know how much coal was in the said pits at the time of the shells' impact and what volume it occupied. You know that initially coal is used from the lower pits, this is included in the calculation of the ship's stability. I do not think that anyone knows the exact amount of coal and its volume...
        1. 0
          23 February 2025 17: 27
          Good afternoon!
          The deck suffered serious damage, including breaches of the seal, from the impact of the blast wave and shell fragments.

          Dear Igor,
          In my opinion, there are important differences between the examples given.
          1. The deck of the Oslyabya was 63,5 mm thick. On the battleship La Belliqueuse the deck was apparently thinner.
          2. The watertight bulkhead along the 20th frame, about 10 mm thick (as a reminder), was bent by the explosion, but remained standing.
          3. The shell burst in the upper part of the space, closer to the battery deck. The armored deck near the side had a slope. See the diagram - section along the 19th frame.
          1. 0
            23 February 2025 18: 11
            Quote: rytik32
            2. The watertight bulkhead along the 20th frame, about 10 mm thick (as a reminder), was bent by the explosion, but remained standing.

            The French conducted many different experiments to select the thickness of steel sheets for plating, bulkheads, decks and other structures. I will give one example, to select steel sheets for the deck, a steel sheet with a thickness of 20 mm was used. For this, 40 grams of pyroxylin A were attached to it, the explosion showed that the explosion or, in the case of a large-caliber projectile, the blast wave affects not only the outer side of the sheet, but also the back B. Subjecting it to partial destruction and cracking. So the bending of the bulkhead or deck is not all the damage, look at how much explosive is in a Japanese 12-inch high-explosive shell and what effect it can produce. This is where the question arises about the quality of the steel used and the construction of the ship itself.
            I read somewhere that a similar problem with cracking deck armor occurred on the armored cruiser Asama.
        2. 0
          23 February 2025 17: 36
          Quote: 27091965i
          It's hard to agree with the 18% reduction

          When the hole is partially or completely submerged, then the water level in the compartment becomes equal to the sea level. And this compartment no longer creates a buoyancy force. Even with coal, it does not create a buoyancy force.
          The presence of coal has a positive effect in another case - the compartment is completely flooded with water. Since the amount of incoming water is less and the weight of the coal increases the MCF.
          1. 0
            23 February 2025 18: 27
            Quote: rytik32
            When the hole is partially or completely submerged, then the water level in the compartment becomes equal to the sea level. And this compartment no longer creates a buoyancy force. Even with coal, it does not create a buoyancy force.

            The volume of coal in the coal pit has a certain weight, taken into account when calculating stability, as well as water entering this compartment. Coal pits are separated by hermetic bulkheads, until these bulkheads are destroyed, the amount of water entering, namely, the coal pit, will not have a significant effect on the stability of the ship, for this purpose, measures are taken to level the ship. This is one of the meanings of the so-called "coal protection", not to allow water to spread to other compartments.
            According to calculations, the ship should go into battle with the upper coal pits filled with coal as much as possible. Alexey, this is the calculation of the ship's stability.
            Perhaps the issue is in the longitudinal bulkhead?
            1. 0
              23 February 2025 18: 31
              Quote: 27091965i
              The coal pits are separated by sealed bulkheads.

              This is not about RIF. We did not divide the coal pit with bulkheads. All the existing bulkheads are visible on the diagrams.
              Perhaps the issue is in the longitudinal bulkhead?

              There was a longitudinal bulkhead, it separated the side corridor from the coal pit.
              1. 0
                23 February 2025 19: 18
                Quote: rytik32
                This is not about RIF. We did not divide the coal pit with bulkheads. All the existing bulkheads are visible on the diagrams.

                Alexey, we can’t understand each other.
                The weight of the coal in the upper coal pits is included in the stability calculation, provided that coal from the lower coal pits will be used initially. A hole in the area of ​​the upper coal pits and the ingress of water, i.e. the weight, are included in the calculation, so they do not pose serious threats. Actions are taken to level the ship if there is little coal in these and the coal pits on the other side. To obtain a critical water ingress, it is necessary that the coal pits become depressurized and water enters the depths of the hull.
                There was a longitudinal bulkhead, it separated the side corridor from the coal pit.

                A longitudinal bulkhead in the bow of the ship was implied, at that time there were many disputes whether to install it or not. Since in the event of water entering the hull below the armored deck, the ship will sooner or later capsize if the water flow is not stopped. There is a calculation for ships of different displacement and design, according to the volume of water entering, which will lead to the capsizing of the ship, in the presence of a longitudinal bulkhead in the bow.
                1. +1
                  23 February 2025 19: 53
                  Igor, to calculate the consequences of flooding a compartment for unsinkability at that time, three types of flooding were distinguished.
                  1. The compartment is completely flooded and does not connect with the atmosphere. The least dangerous type of flooding. The reserve buoyancy is spent, and stability usually even increases, since the effect is equal to the fact that the cargo is accepted and placed below the GVL.
                  2. The compartment is partially filled and freely communicates with the sea. This is the most dangerous type of flooding, as it greatly affects stability. It does not matter how much water entered the compartment, as this water is part of the sea. What is important is the area of ​​the compartment freely communicating with the sea.
                  3. The compartment is partially filled and does not communicate with the sea. It is more dangerous than point 1 because 1) it is the upper weight, 2) a moment of inertia of the surface area of ​​the incoming water is created.

                  "Oslyabya" suffered from type 2 flooding.
                  that is, the weight is included in the calculation

                  The weight of the incoming water does not matter here.
                  To obtain a critical water supply

                  "Oslyabya" perished not from the amount of water that entered, but from the loss of stability.
                  Stability and water supply may have no connection at all.
                  Loss of stability can also occur with zero water inflow, for example, during a gust of wind or large waves.
                  1. 0
                    23 February 2025 20: 12
                    Quote: rytik32
                    Igor, to calculate the consequences of flooding a compartment for unsinkability at that time, three types of flooding were distinguished

                    Alexey, you know that I know this.
                    Loss of stability can also occur with zero water inflow, for example, during a gust of wind or large waves.


                    "Oslyabya" perished not from the amount of water that entered, but from the loss of stability.

                    The amount of water entering the bow of the ship caused the loss of stability.
                    And it doesn’t have sails and the height of the side is decent, so the wind and waves couldn’t capsize it. laughing
                    The ship's design, the struggle for survivability, a large number of hits in a short period of time and the constant flow of water are the main reasons for the ship's demise. It is difficult to write about the quality of construction, and it is impossible. We do not know how this ship was built, and we will not find out, and the documents will not help here. It is enough to make a small mistake in the dimensions of the structure, use steel of the wrong quality or rivets and that's it, the ship will be much worse at withstanding the loads acting on it at sea and in battle.
                    1. 0
                      23 February 2025 20: 37
                      The amount of water entering the bow of the ship caused the loss of stability.

                      The forward compartments of the living deck after hitting the 2nd compartment went from the 3rd to the 2nd type of flooding. After that, the ship, in order to compensate for the loss of the cargo waterline area, acquired both a trim and a very dangerous list.
                      1. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 01
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The forward compartments of the living deck, after hitting the 2nd compartment, went from the 3rd to the 2nd type of flooding.

                        These are the design features of the ship. That is, the ship's design did not provide full protection of the ship from water ingress in the event of such hits.
                        The amount of water entering the bow of the ship caused the loss of stability.

                        At the same time, the struggle for survivability did not bring the necessary result, but this is a fight and I think it is not for us to judge these people.
                        Alexey, honestly, no offense, but in my opinion, you have become too carried away by the theoretical part of stability, pushing the ship’s design into the background.
                      2. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 14
                        Quote: 27091965i
                        These are the design features of the ship.

                        The Japanese ships had a much worse design.
                        But more about that in part 5.
                        pushing the ship's design into the background

                        The design of the Oslyabya was typical for a RIF ship of that time, so I do not consider the design features to be an important reason for the loss.
                      3. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 35
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The Japanese ships had a much worse design.
                        But more about that in part 5.

                        I once quoted an English admiral, I will write it again;
                        " It doesn't matter how fast you shoot in battle, what matters is how many times you hit the enemy ship. ".
                        The design of the Oslyabya was typical for a RIF ship of that time, so I do not consider the design features to be an important reason for the loss.

                        This is not possible, the ship is built for combat with an equal enemy and it is not reasonable to worsen its design compared to the enemy ships. In addition, it was supposed to be a "dual-purpose" ship, for operations on communications and in squadron combat.
                        It is difficult to explain such a "typical" design for RIF ships. Although I came across reasoning from that period of time that the RIF would fight the enemy fleet "relying" on its bases, to which it could return for repairs and replenishment of supplies.
                      4. 0
                        23 February 2025 21: 35
                        Igor!
                        It would be a great article comparing the design solutions of battleships from different countries that affect their unsinkability.
                      5. +1
                        23 February 2025 21: 41
                        Quote: rytik32
                        It would be a great article comparing the design solutions of battleships from different countries that affect their unsinkability.

                        I'll restore my "archival mess" to the end and try to write. I found White's report on my 1892, on the "First class" battleships, I'll send it to you later.
                  2. +1
                    25 February 2025 18: 28
                    "Oslyabya" perished not from the amount of water that entered, but from the loss of stability.
                    This is what needs to be emphasized. Given the overload and free water surface inside, the Oslyabya could capsize and did capsize.
  7. +4
    21 February 2025 12: 45
    Alexey, super! Everything is very sensibly laid out on the shelves.
    And for some things, like tearing off the belt plates, there was no room on the shelves.
  8. +1
    21 February 2025 16: 47
    The picture is generally of a fairly high survivability of this battleship. It is clear that they did not fight for a long time, many things in terms of survivability were not tested. But the reserve of buoyancy was spent for a decently long time. Overload, of course, let down. And with such a layout of successful hits, I doubt that, for example, Japanese (English) battleships would have held out better. There it became better with Formidables (Mikasa).
    1. 0
      22 February 2025 08: 09
      And, yes! The German ships, vaunted for their survivability. The reason for the destruction of the "Lützow" after Jutland were several hits, it is believed that 3 in one salvo from the "Invincible", in the bow. And then the familiar picture. Only that it sank after the battle without the effect of fire.
      1. 0
        22 February 2025 14: 59
        And then much more flew into Seydlitz. And the bow part also sank a lot. But it didn't sink (although it was on the verge).
        1. 0
          22 February 2025 15: 02
          Most likely, as with Oslyabya, the number of shells that hit at once plays a role. Seydlitz was getting hit all day. And Invincible got hit with one shell, and then another. I don't remember exactly, but I think there were about six shells. Good shot. I haven't gotten hit yet. With its armor, going to that distance would have been suicide.
  9. +1
    21 February 2025 16: 54
    I think that the armor plates were torn off. It was an impressive sight. And it is impossible not to remember it. And the fact that the location is unclear is justified by the fact that witnesses saw it from inconvenient places. Either from inside the battleship, or from the stern or bow of neighboring ships.
  10. +2
    21 February 2025 17: 48
    Alexey, why is "Peresvet" on the "cover" of the topic? ;)
    1. 0
      21 February 2025 19: 36
      Maxim, it's definitely not "Peresvet" on the cover!
      Compare with the bottom photo the position of the topsails and yards on the foremast, the wheelhouse - everything is different.
      Just don't ask who is on the cover )))
      1. +2
        21 February 2025 20: 21
        Quote: rytik32
        Just don't ask who is on the cover )))

        Yandex is inclined to believe that it is the Gangut, although it could also be the Admiral Ushakov... or the cruiser Varyag. wassat