Is the parachute an obsolete piece of combat equipment?

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Is the parachute an obsolete piece of combat equipment?


Domes in the sky


The Airborne Troops underwent serious changes in the first weeks of the SVO. First of all, in the tactics of using the most combat-ready units of the Russian Army. Instead of storming command posts in the enemy's rear, the paratroopers mastered the skills of well-trained, but still infantry. The main trump card of the Airborne Troops - high mobility, turned out to be not as in demand in the special operation as the ability to storm fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.



There are most questions about the armored vehicles of the airborne units. High-tech and expensive BMDs can swim and parachute. It is unnecessary to explain how much this skill was used in the battles in Ukraine. There is a lack of airborne vehicles and firepower. This was thought about back in 2016, when they first started talking about arming the airborne units tanks T-72B3. This practice was not widely used, although some airborne regiments received tank battalions.

As a result, we are witnessing the natural process of transformation of airborne troops into airmobile units. When the fire broke out in Kazakhstan, it was the Airborne Forces that managed to prevent a catastrophe in the republic in time, transferring parts of three brigades to the neighboring state in 24 hours. Of course, there was no talk of any airdrop of personnel or equipment.


A natural question arises: under what circumstances in a real combat conflict would domes in the sky be required? For this to happen, several factors must come together at once. First, the enemy must have a very symbolic Defense. The enemy cannot have anything heavier than a MANPADS. The situation that developed during the Afghan war, when the transport aviation They threatened only near the base airfield.

The famous steep glide landing technique or "Afghan style" appeared for a reason, but in response to real threats from the Mujahideen with MANPADS. The enemy did not have serious air defense, but even this did not allow for a full-fledged landing in Afghanistan. What was repeatedly practiced in exercises turned out to be unclaimed in a real war. In 1982, during the Panjshir operation, all four thousand paratroopers were landed using the landing method from helicopters. Forty years later, the heroes of the Gostomel operation repeated this in exactly the same way.

The second factor in the success of a landing operation may be the preliminary suppression of the enemy's air defense systems. Everything is according to the classic scheme - aviation gains dominance in the sky and clears the field for the landing. But here a vicious circle arises - how to achieve superiority in the sky if the air defense cannot be suppressed? Heavy systems such as the S-300 and Patriot are guaranteed to close the sky for aircraft at medium and high altitudes. And at low and ultra-low altitudes, MANPADS operators lie in wait. Cruise and ballistic missiles remain missiles – it seems that only they can disarm the opponent’s air defense.

If we take Ukraine as an example, the Russian Army failed to do this. Not because they couldn't do it technically, but because there were a huge number of targets for the Kalibrs and Iskanders in addition to the air defense. A situation is developing in which a relatively safe landing becomes a very expensive pleasure. It is necessary to first process the air defense position areas with several hundred missiles, then knock out the remnants with manned (or unmanned) aircraft, and only then lift the Il-76 with the landing force into the sky. But even this does not guarantee the success of the operation - there is always a possibility that the enemy has hidden a Buk somewhere since Soviet times. And he will definitely hide it and pull it out into the light of day at the most inopportune moment.

Parachute as exotic


The military industry, like education, is very conservative. If something works well, don't even think about touching it, much less improving it. The best is the enemy of the good. And what if it doesn't work and is of no use anywhere? A parachute on the SVO is only necessary in the most critical cases, when the catapult saves the pilots' lives. And there are no signs that this will be corrected in the foreseeable future. The whole world sees the extremely high efficiency of air defense and missile defense on both sides of the front. And this will become the hottest commodity on the world arms markets very soon.

As soon as the SVO ends with Russia's victory, orders from abroad will simply cover the military-industrial complex. Now, for obvious reasons, our country cannot satisfy the demand. And then the question will arise: will the Americans be able to repeat the landing of five thousand soldiers by parachute somewhere else in the world, as they did in 1989 in Panama? They are not capable of this now either - the losses will be too great.


At one time, cavalrymen left the battlefield. Gone forever. Although horse units had plenty of advantages. These included high cross-country ability, independence from fuel, and good mobility. Only the automatic weapon and barbed wire fences put an end to mounted units. Now, only cavalry is useful in mountainous terrain when patrolling the border. It looks like the parachute is also going into retirement. Of course, not completely. It will remain in the Airborne Forces as a tool for cultivating will and character, as well as an element of the identity of the airborne troops. But nothing more.

The Vostok-2022 exercises illustrate well how much the real needs of the Airborne Forces diverged from those declared by the top leadership. At that time, the Ivanovo Airborne Forces unit practiced parachute landing of personnel and combat equipment. This was never repeated. Perhaps understanding has come, or perhaps the situation no longer allows it – after all, the Airborne Forces now have completely different priorities.

As mentioned above, we should not completely abandon parachute landings. In the future, we cannot rule out the emergence of unique situations when only the landing of a couple of companies can achieve a serious advantage on the battlefield. Usually, these are operations against terrorists or against a seriously weakened enemy. In 2013, the French worked in this way in Timbuktu, landing about two companies by parachute. The Pakistanis dealt with the Taliban, banned in Russia, four years earlier by battalion forces. The fighters descended on the heads of the terrorists by parachute. But these are one-off and local actions that do not require the presence of airborne divisions and regiments.

In areas where such a serious number of highly mobile troops is needed, the enemy almost certainly has means of fire destruction of military transport aviation. The backbone of the Airborne Forces should be heavily armed airborne assault units, which do not even remember about parachutes. Of the delivery vehicles, they only have helicopters. In fact, this is how paratroopers fight in the SVO. And they fight successfully.


There is another niche from which the parachute should not leave yet. This is providing extreme landing from heights of 8-10 thousand meters. In Russia, the parachute systems "Junker" and "Stayer" are responsible for this. Operating practically from the stratosphere, the aircraft does not have to approach the enemy's air defense zone. At the same time, the paratrooper travels tens of kilometers in the air, landing deep in the enemy's defense. There is a need for such unique specialists all over the world, but it is vanishingly small. A parachute jump from ten kilometers is already a feat in itself, but in what war will it be in demand and truly effective?

Only a few countries can afford such pleasure. In many ways, it becomes an element of national prestige. Russia is at the forefront - in 2020, our soldiers were the first and so far the only ones in the world to parachute over the Arctic from a height of 10000 meters. But if you transfer these skills to the SVO, it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which such extreme sports will be in demand. A parachute in real life is becoming an increasingly niche thing, its influence on the battlefield is vanishingly small, and this cannot be ignored.
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  1. +1
    12 February 2025 04: 51
    The parachute in real life is becoming an increasingly niche item, its impact on the battlefield is vanishingly small, and this cannot be ignored.

    I think we need to work with the parachute in a different direction.
    Turn this piece of matter into a device capable of moving an infantryman through the air, just like a UAV moves explosives to the right place.
    Add light powerful engines and control elements to the parachute design (something like an air motorcycle). Drop such a fighter 50 km from the landing site and at a low altitude he quickly bypasses the support from the rear... in general, the classic parachute should be modified in the spirit of our time.
    1. +19
      12 February 2025 07: 02
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Add light, powerful engines and controls to the parachute design
      You just described the design of a motorized paraglider. wink
      1. +1
        12 February 2025 09: 06
        A motorized paraglider is a good solution for dropping off special forces, but you can't land equipment that way, and without equipment the meaning of the Airborne Forces as a combined arms unit is lost.
        IMHO the Airborne Forces need to be reformed towards creating highly mobile units with high readiness, which could be quickly transferred to the required area by any type of transport: air, water, roads. And which could conduct combined arms combat before the main forces arrive in the case of a stronger or equal enemy, or independently defeat a weaker enemy. The question is whether the Airborne Forces need tanks in this case. Most likely they do not, the equipment must be light and ensure the transfer of a large number of such equipment by military transport aviation. And the enemy's heavy armored vehicles can be fought asymmetrically. ATGMs, drones, smart artillery ammunition
    2. +4
      12 February 2025 08: 47
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Turn this piece of matter into a device capable of moving an infantryman through the air, just like a UAV moves explosives to the right place.

      This is more for sabotage groups. For a mass landing it is very expensive and ineffective. It is not even about the delivery, but more about the subsequent supply.
      1. +1
        13 February 2025 11: 58
        Supply is also evolving, thanks to drones. Now you can hang around for weeks in an area cut off from the mainland, if you have an air bridge and a relatively static front line.
    3. 0
      12 February 2025 12: 08
      A small question. Of course, it won't take long to attach a flashlight to a soldier's forehead so he can squint at night. But where are you going to stick an engine, a propeller, for example, into an airplane's yoke? After all, a parachute is mostly used there. Airborne assaults have been going on for show and to keep generals in a good mood for a long time, since the 40s. Today, assaults are mostly carried out by landing. So why build a motorized hang glider? Special forces already have one if necessary.
    4. +1
      12 February 2025 19: 13
      It seems that Hamas attacked Israel exactly like this a year ago, quite successfully. There were paragliders too.
    5. +2
      12 February 2025 20: 43
      Ha-ha...))) and then they'll shoot him like a partridge)
      Nonsense. In modern reality, a parachute can be used very rarely for special tasks and nothing more.
    6. 0
      14 February 2025 20: 14
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The parachute in real life is becoming an increasingly niche item, its impact on the battlefield is vanishingly small, and this cannot be ignored.

      I think we need to work with the parachute in a different direction.
      Turn this piece of matter into a device capable of moving an infantryman through the air, just like a UAV moves explosives to the right place.
      Add light powerful engines and control elements to the parachute design (something like an air motorcycle). Drop such a fighter 50 km from the landing site and at a low altitude he quickly bypasses the support from the rear... in general, the classic parachute should be modified in the spirit of our time.


      I would say that it is still possible to parachute ground drones.
  2. +4
    12 February 2025 04: 55
    As has already been said above, it is not necessary to abandon parachute landing completely. In the future, it is impossible to rule out the emergence of unique situations when only by landing a couple of companies it is possible to achieve a serious advantage on the battlefield. Usually these are operations against terrorists or against a seriously weakened enemy.

    No, there may be so many unique situations that they will not be unique at all. We just need to get away from the fixation on the fact that "landing is equal to landing in the enemy's rear." A fast and fairly massive transfer of troops with at least some armor (at least some armor is better than none) may be needed in areas where landing military transport aircraft is impossible, and there are simply no heavy helicopters. (There are only 26-30 Mi-40s)


    But if you transfer these skills to the SVO, it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which such extreme sports will be in demand.
    By this logic, we can also abandon the SSBNs, but what? They are of little use in the SVO.
    1. +1
      12 February 2025 18: 26
      Конечно.
      Now we have SVO in Ukraine.

      But what if in 10 years there is a need to close the border with China in the deep, dense taiga, where the nearest runway is 1000 km away?
      Let's remember, where are our parachute divisions?
      And there isn't.... request

      Again, how to capture America after a nuclear strike? Who will land on the ruins of Los Angeles?
      It seems crazy now, but who in 2000 could have thought about a war with Ukraine?
      And the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces should have a plan for all situations. And at present, however, TMV is a reality, and not a fantasy.
      1. +2
        12 February 2025 18: 31
        Quote: Neo-9947
        Конечно.
        Now we have SVO in Ukraine.

        But what if in 10 years there is a need to close the border with China in the deep, dense taiga, where the nearest runway is 1000 km away?
        Let's remember, where are our parachute divisions?
        And there isn't.... request

        The stupid Chinese will certainly rush to seize not the Trans-Siberian Railway and regional centers, but the remote taiga 1000 km from housing. Moreover, without air defense and aviation Yes good
        1. +1
          12 February 2025 18: 33
          Well, let's cut up the paratroopers. Haven't you cut up enough in the last 30 years?
          1. +2
            12 February 2025 18: 35
            Quote: Neo-9947
            Well, let's cut up the paratroopers. Haven't you cut up enough in the last 30 years?

            They are proposing to cut the parachutes, not the brigades. Even the paratroopers themselves are proposing this
            1. 0
              12 February 2025 18: 37
              The main thing for us is to start.
              And there they will be reassigned. Re-equipped, re-dressed.
              And these will be ordinary motorized riflemen.
              No doubt.
              1. +1
                12 February 2025 18: 49
                Yes. And that's good. Elite motorized riflemen. Heavy weapons, survivability will increase. Breaking bricks, jumping and cardboard equipment does not help against tanks and artillery.
                1. 0
                  12 February 2025 18: 59
                  Why "elite"?
                  Ordinary. There is no such word in official documents as "elite". How are they better than their neighbors? Same two arms, two legs, same command.
                  We don't have enough motorized riflemen? Well, then create a couple more divisions, why cut the Airborne Forces? Let them break bricks. We have plenty of bricks.
                  But regarding heavy equipment, you are right, they should add some.
        2. +1
          12 February 2025 20: 10
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The stupid Chinese will of course rush to seize not the Trans-Siberian Railway and regional centers,

          Well, why so primitive? And here is the recent breakthrough of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to Kursk... If it is necessary to increase the density of combat formations of our troops in front of the NPP, what could be more efficient than dropping airborne forces or airborne divisions on the approaches to the station without contact with the enemy, but an hour before his possible appearance?
          1. 0
            13 February 2025 05: 59
            Quote: Hagen
            Quote: Tlauicol
            The stupid Chinese will of course rush to seize not the Trans-Siberian Railway and regional centers,

            Well, why so primitive? And here is the recent breakthrough of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to Kursk... If it is necessary to increase the density of combat formations of our troops in front of the NPP, what could be more efficient than dropping airborne forces or airborne divisions on the approaches to the station without contact with the enemy, but an hour before his possible appearance?

            More quickly? The Dnieper landing force was gathering so much that even the Germans got tired of waiting. And the regular infantry had already taken and expanded two bridgeheads on the other bank.
            Are we going to gather the entire VTA to drop two regiments with equipment? The enemy will reach Tula in that time.
            Besides, the guys are almost all at the front - who should we leave behind? Bring in 500 people from Ulan-Ude, Novosibirsk, the Far East? Not to mention the fact that Ukrainians shot down 4 combat helicopters in the first days. Taking down a couple of Ruslans will be a piece of cake. And the unarmored columns burned the Haimars
            1. 0
              13 February 2025 10: 24
              The Dnieper landing was gathering so much that even the Germans got tired of waiting. And the regular infantry had already taken and expanded two bridgeheads on the other bank.


              Oh my god... comparing the Dnieper landing operation with the beginnings of airborne forces in terms of organization of that time and now. Really strong!
              Are we going to gather the entire VTA to drop two regiments of equipment?

              This VTA is usually already concentrated in the areas of permanent deployment, the formations of the Airborne Divisions. As far as I remember, the 98th Guards Airborne Division, the 76th Guards Airborne Division and the 106th Guards Airborne Division have their own air transport squadrons on the Il-76MD. No need to gather anywhere. And the landing can be carried out in a couple of echelons
              Bring 500 people from Ulan-Ude, Novosibirsk, the Far East?

              The availability of ready reserves in the troops is another matter.
              In order to have personnel to carry out landings using various methods. It is necessary first of all to increase the capabilities of the ground forces by increasing the number of personnel... so that we do not have to fill the shortage of personnel on the front lines with paratroopers and marines (as we did at the beginning of the SVO).
              Not to mention that the Ukrainians shot down 4 combat helicopters in the first days. Taking down a couple of Ruslans will be a piece of cake. And the unarmored columns burned the Haimars

              There is always a risk of loss in any case.
              And unarmored columns were also part of the motorized riflemen, so there is no particular difference. It is only a matter of organizing any military operation... since with poor planning, both a cardboard "Beha" and a super-sophisticated (conditionally) and protected Merkava/Namer/Bradley can be destroyed!
            2. +1
              13 February 2025 10: 36
              Quote: Tlauicol
              More quickly? The Dnieper landing force was gathering so much that even the Germans got tired of waiting.

              Laxity in a particular case does not reflect the capabilities of the system...
          2. 0
            20 February 2025 12: 03
            This would certainly be an extremely efficient destruction of the landing force. It is trivial because they would be dropped into the enemy air defense zone on aircraft that can do nothing but old heat traps.

            A striking example of this is the downed Il-76 in the Belgorod region.

            Modern air defense systems have put an end to such landings.
      2. 0
        16 February 2025 21: 13
        Quote: Neo-9947
        But what if in 10 years there is a need to close the border with China in the deep, dense taiga, where the nearest runway is 1000 km away?
        Let's remember, where are our parachute divisions?
        And there isn't.... request
        You can only parachute into the forest on clearing - they won't be dropping troops into the trees, "clearings" will need to be organized in advance, in the taiga a natural "clearing" = a swamp.
        hi
        1. 0
          20 February 2025 08: 40
          As a professional parachutist, I can say that anyone can land on a clearing (the size of a football stadium). Only a few who have a "wing" type parachute on their back and can skillfully control it can get to this clearing. As is known, standard mass landing parachutes, and especially cargo parachutes, are not controllable at all, or are controllable in a limited way (like turning to face the wind before landing). This is not to mention how many parachutists, upon landing, can safely disperse on a clearing even the size of a stadium. I will say from experience of landing on clearings in the taiga (Avialesookhrana) and on stadiums during exhibition performances - 20 people. Therefore, mass landing on large open areas is not easy. And landing in conditions of limited areas (taiga, mountains) is an adventure, nothing more. IMHO, the author is right - a parachute for conducting large-scale landing operations no longer makes sense (and it didn't really make sense before, considering how many such successful operations have been conducted over the years of the landing force's existence, it seems like "zero"). The future of the parachute is a pilot-controlled or unmanned wing (controlled by an operator), like a paraglider, with an engine (internal combustion engine or electric) for delivering special forces groups or cargo (including ground drones) to the enemy's rear. By the way, such unmanned, cargo, radio-controlled parachute-wings were tested in the army 30 years ago, although their control system was very cumbersome (both mechanical and electrical parts)...
    2. +2
      12 February 2025 20: 45
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      As has already been said above, it is not necessary to abandon parachute landing completely. In the future, it is impossible to rule out the emergence of unique situations when only by landing a couple of companies it is possible to achieve a serious advantage on the battlefield. Usually these are operations against terrorists or against a seriously weakened enemy.

      No, there may be so many unique situations that they will not be unique at all. We just need to get away from the fixation on the fact that "landing is equal to landing in the enemy's rear." A fast and fairly massive transfer of troops with at least some armor (at least some armor is better than none) may be needed in areas where landing military transport aircraft is impossible, and there are simply no heavy helicopters. (There are only 26-30 Mi-40s)


      But if you transfer these skills to the SVO, it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which such extreme sports will be in demand.
      By this logic, we can also abandon the SSBNs, but what? They are of little use in the SVO.

      By the way, such a situation arose during the Ukrainian invasion in the Kursk region. It simply could not be resolved in this way due to the involvement of all the airborne forces and marines in the LBS. There were simply no reserves. But if they had been, they could have been dropped on the militants' paths so that they would organize ambushes, etc., etc. But apparently it did not work out. hi
  3. 0
    12 February 2025 05: 42
    Well, why not? You can use airborne units to reinforce ground units that have broken through into the enemy's defenses. For example: a motorized rifle brigade broke through 50-100 km and captured a railway junction. There are no forces to hold on, so the airborne forces are used to reinforce them. The fact that large-scale airborne operations are a risky business became clear back in Crete, where German paratroopers clashed with English infantry and sailors. But this did not stop the Germans from using paratroopers en masse in Norway. And the Americans and the British have placed their bets on a large landing in Normandy. Of course, air defense is much more effective now, but circumstances may be different. For example, like in Kazakhstan. Or, for example, if the Poles attack Belarus. The Airborne Forces will come in handy to quickly help Batka. But with airmobile units, you need to look at it. Helicopters are now being used from behind the "contact" line; they try not to enter enemy territory. This is "shooting" NURs from a pitched position. The high saturation of enemy units with MANPADS is unlikely to allow such operations to be carried out using transport helicopters.
    1. +3
      12 February 2025 11: 07
      For example: a motorized rifle brigade broke through 50-100 km and captured a railway junction. There are no forces to hold it, so a landing force is needed to reinforce it.

      A deep breakthrough of 100 km without flanks and supplies, right? And support in the form of paratroopers? Apparently, you want to increase the number of prisoners captured by the enemy.
      However, none of this is possible without air supremacy, and if this is the case, then there will be “forces” to maintain it.
      But this did not stop the Germans from using paratroopers en masse in Norway.

      The Norwegian operation took place to landings on Crete.
      And the Americans and the British placed their bets on a large landing in Normandy.

      As an additional tool to distract the Germans from the naval landing. And the result was so-so, even with the Allies' air superiority.
      Circumstances may be different. For example, like in Kazakhstan.

      Was there a parachute landing there?
      Or, for example, if the Poles attack Belarus.

      All the airborne forces in Ukraine, and as a result of the losses incurred, 70 percent of the personnel there have only seen a parachute in the movies.
      1. +3
        12 February 2025 13: 38
        Why do you think that a global war will develop according to the SVO scenario? When I look at the confrontation in Ukraine, I don't have a normal name for what is happening there.
        1. -1
          12 February 2025 17: 33
          Quote: fiberboard
          Why do you think that a global war will develop according to the SVO scenario?

          How do you imagine a potential war with NATO in Europe? Do you think they will allow us to conduct massive parachute landings?
          Another matter is air mobility. That is, the ability to quickly transfer troops by military transport aircraft over long distances using the landing method with all the necessary weapons. But for this it is necessary to have a military transport aircraft with hundreds of Il-76MD\MD-90A class aircraft, a hundred Ruslans and several hundred An-12 class aircraft (with a carrying capacity of 20-30 tons). The Russian Federation does not have such a fleet of aircraft and effective managers are not capable of ensuring their construction - the aircraft manufacturing industry is dead, personnel have been lost, new ones have not been trained, aircraft factories capable of serially building any aircraft except fighters simply DO NOT EXIST. As it turned out, 15 years of talk about the construction of many hundreds of MS-21 and Superjets turned out to be talk - their production was simply not prepared, production cooperation was not established, and those individual samples that were shown to the authorities and onlookers were assembled from imported components like Lego. The Russian Federation lost its most advanced aircraft manufacturing industry at the time, and when the chips were down in 2022 ... out of habit, the "effective" quadroplanes began to lie as usual, promising 1100-1200 aircraft by the end of the decade. They failed everything, the allocated funds were "mastered", there are NO aircraft. Just as there is no Il-76MD-90A. To this day, after 15 years of efforts and promises, serial production has not been established, cooperation has not been built, production of aircraft engines has failed, imported components have not been replaced by domestic ones. LAZINESS, SABOTAGE, SABOTAGE and theft on an especially large scale are the NORM.
          So the parachute landing for which our Airborne Forces have been and are being prepared is a downright sabotage, leading to unjustified losses of our most combat-ready units. Our most select guys. Arming them with BMDs with "cardboard" armor and light weapons.
          The Airborne Forces need to be re-equipped with normal and sufficiently protected BMP-3M and armored personnel carriers based on it, BTR-82B with reinforced armor, self-propelled guns based on the BMP-3 chassis (for unification and easier maintenance/repair) - i.e. transferred to NORMAL infantry weapons. It makes absolutely no difference to the Il-76MD-90A whether it carries two BMD-4 or two BMP-3M, the carrying capacity is sufficient. But the protection of the BMP-3M is almost an order of magnitude higher than that of the BMD-4. And this is the lives of our soldiers, this is a much more successful fulfillment of a combat mission, this is the unification of military equipment in the troops for greater convenience, ease of maintenance and cost reduction.
          but instead of the CORRECT decisions, the production of the BMD-4, the Rakushka armored personnel carrier, the Sprut-SDM and other parachute-dropped nonsense continues stubbornly and doggedly... which in the Airborne Forces should be no more than 20-25% of the total fleet of armored vehicles... it's just that different cases happen and somewhere in Africa such a circus might still come in handy.
          1. +1
            12 February 2025 20: 49
            No, I mean there is no need to take well-fortified strongholds like towns and villages - strike with TNW and that's it, move on. Although it is unlikely that "our commander-in-chief" will have enough determination for this. In my opinion, he is no longer capable of making critical decisions, like during the Second Chechen Campaign (to wipe them out in the toilet). Most likely, he will back out and again: "I ask you to treat this with understanding." As for the Military Transport Aviation, yes, it is unlikely that it will be able to provide the necessary volume of troops and equipment transfer. However, it is like this everywhere now: there is no normal fleet, no normal railway either. And there are millions of migrants who can paralyze any transportation, by any transport. If they go out and dismantle the Trans-Siberian Railway, it will be impossible to transfer units from Siberia and the Far East. I have no doubts at all that this is the same Putin who was in 2000.
    2. 0
      12 February 2025 16: 32
      It is worth considering that the German paratroopers were dropped off separately from their weapons. The P-38 pistol was a Mauser carbine and there was no MP-38. That is, after landing, the Germans had to fight their way to the carbine and machine gun stashes. The landing force was also scattered across the area.
      1. 0
        12 February 2025 17: 02
        Whatever it was, they captured the airfield and accepted the Alpine riflemen while the British were waiting for the landing from the sea. Yes, the Germans suffered huge losses, but they accomplished their mission. Another thing is our landing in the Vyazma operation, mostly negative. Here it also depends on the command, whether those who plan the operation have brains and experience or not. But the Soviet landings in the war with Japan are a different matter. What happened in Gostomel is difficult to assess, there is little information. But those who were there say little good. As always, chaos and poor organization. One says he survived miraculously, the Ukrainians passed by and did not notice.
  4. -1
    12 February 2025 05: 47
    Wow! We left the bay. If we abandon the Airborne Forces as a branch of the military, we can forget about the rapid response of the army in hard-to-reach places and, as a rule, surprise. Farewell to the Motherland, and it is big, not to mention the North and the taiga. So we can write off everything and the same fleet, which needs to be periodically modernized or built, in step with the times.
    1. +9
      12 February 2025 07: 53
      The Airborne Forces are a pointless branch of the military, they are not capable of landing (air defense and aviation will not allow it), they are not capable of rapid deployment, and even if several thousand are deployed, after a month of real training, the infantry will grind them into mush within a few days. How much money is wasted on the Airborne Forces, it could be spent on equipping the infantry, new equipment.
      Are you in the north or in the taiga, who are you going to fight, bears? For a massive war there are nuclear weapons, for a local war there are border guards, infantry, aviation, air defense... Do you really believe that if there is a war, landing is possible at least 300 kilometers from the front line?
      The Airborne Forces are weak weapons and a beautiful ballet on TV and at holidays. In reality, the airborne forces fight as infantry and require support from other units, in terms of heavy equipment, artillery, despite the fact that they are not trained for such interaction and have to learn all over again.
      1. +5
        12 February 2025 09: 15
        In reality, the landing force fights like infantry and requires support from other units, in terms of heavy equipment and artillery, despite the fact that it is not trained in such interaction and has to learn all over again.
        That's right, a paratrooper without serious support is a voluntary encirclement.
        1. 0
          13 February 2025 10: 27
          Like any other branch and type of troops
      2. -1
        12 February 2025 11: 28
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        In reality, the landing force fights like infantry and requires support from other units, in terms of heavy equipment and artillery, despite the fact that it is not trained in such interaction and has to learn all over again.

        Yeah... arrived to gain The landing party begins to demand that it be given reinforcement, taking it away from those whom it was supposed to reinforce.
        And the cardboard armor is not the worst thing. The worst thing is that the landing force has practically no artillery or air defense. Some kind of "marching regiment" on armored vehicles. smile
        1. 0
          13 February 2025 10: 34
          And the cardboard armor is not the worst thing. The worst thing is that the landing force has practically no artillery or air defense. Some kind of "marching regiment" on armored vehicles.

          Alexey...look at what the air defense of the battalion and regimental level of motorized riflemen is like...and you will be surprised, there is no difference.
          And taking into account that the Ptitselov air defense system (based on the land-based Sosna-R) is being developed for the Airborne Forces, the air defense of the paratroopers will be strengthened, in terms of its perfection.
          As for artillery...well, who prevented them from developing normal artillery systems, with "long barrels", not only for paratroopers, but also for ground troops!? So that they could compare with the models of a potential enemy in terms of firing range. An example of a good howitzer for the Airborne Forces, for example, I see...it's an analogue of the American M777. Light and in 155-mm caliber, just right.
          1. 0
            13 February 2025 11: 02
            Quote: Sanguinius
            Alexey...look at what the air defense of the battalion and regimental level of motorized riflemen is like...and you will be surprised, there is no difference.

            But I'm not looking at the regiment, but at the formation as a whole. The motorized rifle regiment can get air defense reinforcement from the motorized rifle division. But the airborne division has nothing with which it could qualitatively reinforce the airborne division's air defense. "Strela-10MN" at the level of a zrp division is very sad.
            Quote: Sanguinius
            And considering that the Ptitselov air defense system (based on the land-based Sosna-R) is being developed for the Airborne Forces, the air defense of the paratroopers will be strengthened.

            Yeah... this "Henry the First" has been around for three years now. will be in the troops. sad
            The Russian Airborne Forces (VDV) will receive the latest airborne anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) "Ptitselov" by 2022. This was reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the commander of the VDV, Colonel General Andrei Serdyukov.

            And considering how much they sawed up the "Sosna" and how it all ended... somehow this new air defense system doesn't inspire confidence in me.

            Moreover, even if the "Ptitselov" does come to the Airborne Forces, the paratroopers will again receive an air defense system for the division with the characteristics of an air defense system for a motorized rifle regiment: 10 km in range, 5 km in altitude. "Strela-10" in a new way.
            1. 0
              13 February 2025 11: 38
              But I'm not looking at the regiment, but at the formation as a whole. The motorized rifle regiment can get air defense reinforcement from the motorized rifle division. But the airborne division has nothing with which it could qualitatively reinforce the airborne division's air defense. "Strela-10MN" at the level of a zrp division is very sad.

              Well, Alexey...what's the big deal here? The Airborne Forces, even if you're going to focus on airmobility and airborne assault formations...it's still an airmobile unit (light infantry, high mobility). And you suggest equipping divisions/brigades with heavy air defense systems, like the S-300V, Bukari (various modifications)? Given that our main air transport fleet is represented by Ilyushin machines. And these systems are a real challenge to convert to Il-76s, and I won't even mention the S-300V...only Ruslans are good enough for this. And as far as I remember, in the same air defense regiments, as part of motorized rifle divisions, there's nothing higher than the outdated Osa-AKM air defense systems, as well as the Tunguska. So what kind of completely airmobile division/brigade will we get here? In my opinion, you are trying to give the properties of heavy linear connections to light ones for some reason, although they don't need it at all. They have their own specifics.
              Yeah... this "Henry the First" will be in the troops for three years already. sad

              Well, let's hope that soon they will finally finish this complex and it will go to the troops, into service with the Airborne Forces and Ground Forces (based on the BMP-3/BTR-80) winked
              Moreover, upon exit, the Airborne Forces will again receive an air defense system for a division with the characteristics of an air defense system for a motorized rifle regiment: 10 km in range, 5 km in altitude.

              So, if we are counting on the hypothetical possibility of airborne landings, or the rapid transfer of units by air, they do not need more cumbersome systems... considering that they will operate on the front line.
              "Strela-10" in a new way.

              But still, Ptitselov is much more advanced and effective, due to new SAMs and detection and guidance systems)
      3. 0
        12 February 2025 18: 33
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        despite the fact that he is not trained in such interaction and has to learn all over again.

        In 2015... there was an article about this on VO -
        https://topwar.ru/85594-kak-perevooruzhit-vdv-.html
      4. 0
        19 February 2025 13: 25
        ...the same situation with the "marines"
    2. +7
      12 February 2025 08: 54
      Quote: Word
      If we abandon the Airborne Forces as a branch of the military, we can forget about the army’s rapid response in hard-to-reach places and, as a rule, surprise.

      Practice is the criterion of truth. The parachute method of landing became obsolete during the Great Patriotic War. There were attempts, but they all ended in failure. What looks good on paper and in propaganda videos later turns out to be fraught with massive losses. I am very glad that at least the SVO had enough sense not to use the airborne troops by the parachute method.
    3. +1
      12 February 2025 11: 21
      Quote: Word
      Wow! We left the bay. If we abandon the Airborne Forces as a branch of the military, we can forget about the rapid response of the army in hard-to-reach places and, as a rule, surprise.

      I wonder why fans of the Airborne Forces perceive the refusal of a parachute as a refusal of the Airborne Forces?
      The article, on the contrary, says that highly mobile troops are needed. But mostly as airmobile troops, and "weighted down" by abandoning parachute landing. At the same time, airborne landing remains.
      And parachute landings need to be preserved, but only as a niche, for low-intensity conflicts in third world countries.
    4. +2
      12 February 2025 11: 47
      "If we abandon the Airborne Forces as a branch of the military, we can forget about the army's rapid response in hard-to-reach places and, as a rule, surprise"
      leave the parachute only to scouts, saboteurs, spotters. transfer everything else to the infantry, adding heavy weapons and melting down all these aluminum BMDs and Octopuses for normal armor. Ordinary infantry can also land by landing. And there is no need to save partners, after that they begin to degenerate into enemies. And besides everything else, even now the VTA can land only one airborne division, and in 10 years, there may not be enough for a battalion
  5. +5
    12 February 2025 05: 52
    Why refuse... it's just that the tasks for parachuting become different... niche but no less necessary and important...
    1. +1
      12 February 2025 07: 55
      And what kind of ones? To put out forest fires? The 40s showed that any landing operations are doomed to failure, and after the 60s, landing became impossible in principle if the enemy has air defense and aviation.
  6. +3
    12 February 2025 05: 56
    A situation is developing in which a relatively safe landing becomes a very expensive pleasure.


    The cost of a landing operation is the key to its failure. Unfortunately, most landing operations have failed precisely because of insufficient or poor preparation and support. One day, a major landing operation will be successfully implemented, and it is not a fact that it will be by Russia.
    In Ukraine, due to the sluggish nature of the military actions, there is no need for large-scale landing operations. Also, probably, there are no or very expensive means of preparation and control of the landing area and the corridor of movement of transport aircraft. There is no understanding that for the successful completion of the landing operation it is not enough to successfully ensure the airdrop of landing units without losses, but it is necessary to provide operational support to the paratroopers throughout the operation in 24/7 mode. Operational support, in this case, is not the delivery of food and ammunition, but missile, artillery and air support, on first request and in the required quantities. All previous landing operations failed due to insufficient and improperly organized support. Units were airdropped behind enemy lines, but how and with what to destroy those who would attack these units was not thought out, not prepared, not provided, not completed within the established time frame. As a result, paratroopers die senselessly, and the goals of the operations are not achieved. However, someday someone will understand this and do everything correctly, after which the mass use of airborne units will begin, but in a completely different way than before.
    1. 0
      12 February 2025 08: 58
      If all your requirements for preparation and support are met, then what is the point of the landing itself? It is possible to march through the front lines with artillery and aviation support, almost like a parade. That's the whole point, if you make the landing effective, it turns out that it will no longer be needed.
      1. +1
        12 February 2025 10: 19
        Quote: qqqq
        If all your requirements for preparation and support are met, then what is the point of the landing itself? It is possible to march through the front lines with artillery and aviation support, almost like a parade. That's the whole point, if you make the landing effective, it turns out that it will no longer be needed.


        The perception of the landing force as suicide bombers is a cardinal mistake. The task of the landing force is not to die heroically, but to complete the mission and return alive. If it is possible for linear units to march in a ceremonial march, why did they not end up in Gostomel on time, as planned? Unfortunately, this happens very often. Let's say the landing force blocked a major, critical transport artery in the enemy's rear. As a result, the entire city was cut off from supplies. Using UAVs and communications, the landing force carries out target designation within a radius of about 50 km, helping to destroy the enemy's artillery and thereby ensuring the advance of the main forces. Does this deserve quality support, or should they be ground into the mud by tanks and artillery?
        1. +1
          12 February 2025 12: 02
          "The task of the landing party is not to die heroically, but to complete the mission and return alive."
          and how do you see it? 300 km behind enemy lines there is an important strategic object - a bridge, a tunnel, an airfield, a headquarters - it doesn't matter. An airborne division or another unit, depending on its importance, is landed in the rear to destroy it. The object is destroyed, the personnel are partially killed, partially wounded, there is no ammunition, the equipment is destroyed. And how can they return 300 km marching through the enemy rear? In Soviet times, in the Airborne Forces there was a saying "what kind of transport is needed to withdraw an airborne division from the enemy rear after completing a mission? The correct answer is a bicycle" Now it is unlikely that anything has changed
          "If it is possible for the linear units to march in a ceremonial march, why didn't they arrive in Gostomel on time, as planned?"
          "Take a load that fits you, so you don't fall while walking." You had to plan correctly
          1. +1
            12 February 2025 17: 20
            Quote: ZloyKot
            300 km behind enemy lines there is an important strategic object - a bridge, a tunnel, an airfield, a headquarters - it doesn't matter. An airborne division is landed in the rear to destroy it.


            A typical idea of ​​the role of paratroopers in modern warfare. It's like sending tanks into a minefield.

            Quote: ZloyKot
            it was necessary to plan correctly


            Right on target! Plan and implement correctly, there is no other way.
            1. 0
              14 February 2025 16: 43
              "A typical idea of ​​the role of landing forces in modern warfare"
              Well, yes, because the landing force is needed for a frontal assault on farmsteads and villages, nothing else. The landing force was created to destroy strategic targets.
              "how to send tanks into a minefield." when attacking, when breaking through the enemy's defense, tanks go through minefields, there are means, you know, to destroy them
              1. 0
                15 February 2025 01: 20
                5.0
                Quote: ZloyKot
                when attacking, when breaking through the enemy's defense, tanks go through minefields, there are means, you know, to destroy them


                Mine-destroying equipment has been created for tanks, but support equipment is not needed for lightly armed landing forces?
                1. 0
                  15 February 2025 04: 58
                  "And for lightly armed landing forces, don't they need support equipment?"
                  And what kind? Tanks, self-propelled guns, infantry? Should they be dropped along with the landing force, or brought in in advance?
        2. +1
          12 February 2025 14: 24
          Quote from Eugene Zaboy
          why didn't they arrive in Gostomel on time as planned

          Personally, I don't know how it was planned, I can guess, but I'm afraid that the BD was not planned at all. But what the Gostomel landing achieved is an open question. And most importantly, how much it cost us. And, by the way, it only made sense when a tank column broke through to it. But even with it, it couldn't do anything serious. By and large, the time of parachute landings never really came. Too many factors must come together for it to be effective. In life, this doesn't happen, some kind of nasty thing will always pop up that will nullify all efforts.
          1. +1
            12 February 2025 17: 48
            Quote: qqqq
            But what the Gostomel landing achieved is an open question.


            The task of the landing force is to take control of or destroy the object and hold out until the main forces arrive. What do you expect from the landing force if only a tank column made it through to them as the main forces. After that, they were supposed to take Kyiv, or all of Ukraine at once?


            Quote: qqqq
            In the grand scheme of things, the time for parachute landings never really came. Too many factors had to come together for it to be effective.


            Parachute landing is not a magic wand, but a military operation with strictly defined functions and tasks. You can't jump above your head. That's what a head on your shoulders is for, to foresee the bad stuff in advance, and not to throw up your hands after the fight.
            1. 0
              12 February 2025 23: 06
              Quote from Eugene Zaboy
              That's what a head on your shoulders is for, to foresee bad things in advance, and not to throw up your hands after a fight.

              You have listed everything correctly, but practice shows that everything can never be taken into account, and in the past it was not taken into account. And then the question arises, why all this, if so many factors need to be taken into account and any mistake can be fatal. You would hardly fly on an airplane if all previous flights were either a disaster or an emergency landing. This example is also applicable to parachute landing, there are practically no examples of successful use, unless you take into account the war with the Papuans.
              1. +1
                13 February 2025 03: 01
                Quote: qqqq
                This example also applies to parachute landing; there are practically no examples of successful use, unless you take into account the war with the Papuans.


                In fact, there are many examples of successful landing operations, but they are all limited by scale and, accordingly, cost. Sabotage landing operations have been and are very widely used. What you are talking about are examples of unsuccessful large-scale landing operations, during the preparation of which there is always an acute desire to save money, at the expense of resources and, ultimately, the lives of paratroopers. Such practice consistently and naturally leads to catastrophic consequences of landing operations. The dead do not bring accusations against the living. That's all. If you look into it, all the failed landing operations lacked proper support and preparation, and the reasons for the failure were explained by those who did not implement this support and preparation. If it is too expensive, you should not start, but you cannot save. Nevertheless, successful landing operations prove their significant effectiveness. Greed ruins everything.
                1. 0
                  13 February 2025 08: 37
                  Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                  If you look into it, all the failed landing operations lacked proper support and preparation, and the reasons for the failure were explained by those who did not implement this support and preparation. If it is too expensive, you should not start, but you cannot save.

                  That's exactly what I'm talking about, that no one can guarantee that next time it will be different. It turns out that this system (in technical terms) is too complex and unpredictable. So why bother then? Again, I mean large-scale parachute landing operations. The USSR had units like the Airborne Assault Battalion, helicopter landing forces, and all that, and they are just what you need in exceptional cases. In my opinion, the introduction of troops into Czechoslovakia is the standard for airmobile troops. The capture of an airport by special forces, and the deployment of a division from wheels (wings) not by parachute, but upon landing.
                  1. +1
                    13 February 2025 13: 20
                    Quote: qqqq
                    In my opinion, the introduction of troops into Czechoslovakia is the standard of airmobile troops. The capture of an airport by special forces, and the deployment of a division from wheels (wings) not by parachute, but upon landing.


                    Large-scale amphibious operations were carried out during WWII and the need for them may arise again if a large-scale conflict breaks out.
                    1. 0
                      13 February 2025 21: 26
                      Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                      Large-scale landing operations were carried out during WWII.

                      As far as I remember, all of them ended in failure. The only one was the capture of Crete by the Germans. But upon learning of the losses, Hitler declared that losing the cream of the nation in such numbers was an unaffordable luxury. The Germans did not conduct any more large landings. Belgium does not count, there was more of a sabotage group of about 100 people and on gliders.
                      1. 0
                        14 February 2025 01: 50
                        Quote: qqqq
                        losing the cream of the nation in such quantities is an unaffordable luxury


                        This is the root of the failure of all landing operations. A paratrooper with a machine gun against an enemy machine gun is an unaffordable luxury. A paratrooper is either a covert saboteur or a spotter of artillery fire, missile forces, the Aerospace Forces or attack aircraft. This is the only way to achieve results, and not with your chest on a pillbox or with grenades under tanks. This is possible, but out of desperation.
  7. +1
    12 February 2025 06: 28
    At one time, the cavalrymen left the battlefield. Left forever.
    They didn't go away forever.
    The horse is much slower than the car and is inferior to it in terms of "carrying capacity", but it can go where any equipment still gets stuck. The animal remains an indispensable assistant and is capable of carrying about 150 kilograms of cargo.

    It follows from open information that Russia maintains cavalry units in the North Caucasus and Southern Siberia. In particular, cavalry units exist in the motorized rifle and airborne troops. Cavalry training is included in the training program for cadets of the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School.
    As for the parachute, its use, it was, is and will be. Talk about the uselessness of the Airborne Forces is, at best, shortsightedness, at worst, a deliberate ideological diversion. The fact that the Airborne Forces have reduced their fleet of transport aircraft is another matter, and our entire army has been greatly reduced.
    The emphasis on the fact that all landings will be destroyed in the air is akin to the talk that all advancing infantry will be laid low by machine guns. No one will launch a large landing without suppressing the enemy's air defense, without the element of surprise. Finally, there is a need for a large and rapid transfer of troops to territories without transport routes, perhaps even deep into our own territory, given our vast expanses and restless borders. We have the best airborne forces in the world, both in training and in terms of equipment in the troops. Apparently, someone really wants to destroy this. Maybe it would be better to improve the training of the ground forces, and generally increase the size of the army, so that the airborne forces do not plug all the holes and do not perform tasks that are not theirs?
    1. +1
      12 February 2025 07: 10
      Quote: Per se.
      Maybe it would be better to improve the training of the ground forces, and generally increase the size of the army, so that the Airborne Forces do not plug all the holes and do not perform tasks that are not theirs?

      Right.
      Why on earth did they reduce military service from 2 years to 1 year?
      Tried to make a small contract army? Well, here is the result, right in front of us.
      Here we need to look at the “driving forces” that led to all this.
      1. +5
        12 February 2025 07: 50
        Quote: Vladimir-TTT
        Here we need to look at the “driving forces” that led to all this.
        It seems that these "driving forces" are more afraid of their own army and their own people than of the enemy army and their dear "partners".
      2. +4
        12 February 2025 08: 25

        Why on earth did they reduce military service from 2 years to 1 year?

        1. How would this help in the SVO?
        2. And conscripts will definitely be engaged in military training for all 2 years, or will be more involved in various activities, so that they are “somehow occupied, so that they don’t suffer from idleness”
        3. What prevents you from signing a contract after a year of service?
        4. Why does the Ministry of Defense allocate 2 weeks, and not 2 years, to prepare a volunteer before sending him to the SVO zone?
      3. +6
        12 February 2025 09: 19
        Quote: Vladimir-TTT
        Why on earth did they reduce military service from 2 years to 1 year?

        If there is no motivation, then no amount of service will make a conscript a soldier. Just look into the eyes of these children in uniform, who were freed after being captured by the VSU during the invasion of the Kursk region.
        Now the only motivational incentive for military service in Russia can be financial interest or career prospects. If there will always be problems with the first, and conscripts are mostly used to sitting on their parents' necks and do not understand the value of money. But they know for sure about their prospects in life, because the overwhelming majority see themselves in soft chairs in the civil service and cool cars. And unfortunately, now those who conscientiously pulled the strap and those who dodged the army have equal rights in career growth in the police, government agencies in the management of state organizations.
        1. +3
          12 February 2025 12: 24
          Quote: Vitaly_pvo
          If there is no motivation, then no amount of service will make a conscript a soldier.

          Oath, duty, morality, isn't that motivation? Maybe motivation of 2 million will be twice as powerful as motivation of one million, and how much will it cost to motivate someone to perform a feat, to sacrifice themselves?
          No, fellow democrats, "we don't need that kind of hockey." You say it's enough to look conscripts-children in the eye after captivity, and what about contract soldiers after captivity? In Chechnya, the wolf-conscripts soon yielded little to the seasoned "double basses." A 1-year service is more suitable only for training for the reserves. Conscription is needed for everyone, if you want it, you can, 2-3 years, with bonuses and benefits, if you can't, you don't want to, it's superfluous for the total number of the army - "young fighter course", and in the reserves for civil defense, with the payment of "alimony" at the expense of the army for those who serve 2-3 years. In addition to this, there are already extended conscripts or contract soldiers, for units of increased combat readiness. Probably, we need such an army, and not just monetary motivation.
      4. +2
        12 February 2025 11: 45
        Quote: Vladimir-TTT
        Why on earth did they reduce military service from 2 years to 1 year?
        Have you tried to create a small contract army?

        Because according to the Makarov-Serdyukov reform, conscripts were not supposed to serve in line units. They were supposed to be trained for a year in training centers and training units + training camps after that, creating a reserve for mobilization and deployment of the BHVT if the contract army could not cope.
        And the contract army, according to this reform, was supposed to send 100% of its regular personnel to the SVO. And not like the current "combat-ready" divisions - a hodgepodge of different units "we leave conscripts, we send contract soldiers, what to do with the cadred rear - we don't know at all."
    2. +4
      12 February 2025 09: 04
      Quote: Per se.
      No one will launch a large-scale landing without suppressing the enemy’s air defenses, without the element of surprise.

      There, not only the air defense must be suppressed, artillery and tank units must be added, otherwise the landing will turn into a massacre. The enemy will only need to block the roads in his rear and eliminate his fuel reserves in this territory and increase the air defense. In 2-3 days, the landing will become just a foot partisan detachment. Painful, but not fatal.
      1. +1
        12 February 2025 10: 12
        Quote: qqqq
        It's not just the air defense that needs to be suppressed there.
        In principle, much more is needed, including interaction with other branches of the military. A landing, whatever it may be, is part of a military operation. A war cannot be won by one branch of the military, only complex and competent use ensures victory.
    3. +1
      12 February 2025 11: 40
      Quote: Per se.
      They didn't go away forever.
      The horse is much slower than the car and is inferior to it in terms of "carrying capacity", but it can go where any equipment still gets stuck. The animal remains an indispensable assistant and is capable of carrying about 150 kilograms of cargo.

      He-he-he... so it is proposed to reform the Airborne Forces in the same way as the cavalry was reformed: to move from hussars with dashing attacks on horseback to dragoons, for whom the horse is only a means of transportation.
      Remember what the cavalry brought with it in 1941 - mounted infantry with lighter staffing levels from regiment and below, but with heavy reinforcements at the division level in the form of a tank battalion.
      Quote: Per se.
      As for the parachute and its use, it was, is and will be. Talk about the uselessness of the Airborne Forces is, at best, shortsightedness, at worst, a deliberate ideological diversion.

      Nobody is talking about the uselessness of the Airborne Forces. Landing is also landing. Especially since for 70 years now, in combat conditions, the Airborne Forces have been landing using the landing method.
      We are talking about abandoning 100% parachute landing, which is detrimental to the Airborne Forces given the modern strategy and tactics of their use.
      Quote: Per se.
      Finally, there is a need for a large and rapid transfer of troops to territories without transport routes, perhaps even deep into our own territory, given our vast expanses and restless borders.

      So it all remains. The Airborne Forces in the main become airmobile, receiving "heavier" equipment and "heavier" staffs due to the refusal of parachute landing. And parachute landing remains in several battalions.
      1. +1
        12 February 2025 12: 39
        Quote: Alexey RA
        So it all remains. The Airborne Forces in the main become airmobile, receiving "heavier" equipment and "heavier" staffs due to the refusal of parachute landing. And parachute landing remains in several battalions.

        I do not argue with this. But, the possibility of parachute landing must exist, as well as the equipment for this. It is impossible to limit all the capabilities of the Airborne Forces and lose what the USSR and today's Russia gained an advantage in developing troops. It is interesting that, strangely enough, no one argues about the uselessness of the Marine Corps in the United States, as well as about the maintenance of the entire Marine Corps, with its own aviation and ships. We, the kettles are boiling, why do we need aircraft carriers, which the whole world is building, and we actually have only one ship, and why do we need Airborne Forces, which are the best in the world...
        1. 0
          12 February 2025 16: 45
          Quote: Per se.
          But, the possibility of parachute landing must exist, as well as the equipment for this.

          Yes. A battalion per division.
          Quote: Per se.
          It’s interesting that, strangely enough, no one argues about the uselessness of the US Marine Corps, as well as about the maintenance of the entire Marine Corps, with its own aviation and ships.

          Oh, come on. Have you forgotten about the recent reform of the Marine Corps, during which the Corps was transformed from a second army into a highly specialized means of capturing and coastal defense of archipelagos near China? The reform there was even more drastic than what is being proposed for the Airborne Forces.
          1. 0
            13 February 2025 10: 40
            Oh, come on. Have you forgotten about the recent reform of the Marine Corps, during which the Corps was transformed from a second army into a highly specialized means of capturing and coastal defense of archipelagos near China? The reform there was even more drastic than what is being proposed for the Airborne Forces.

            But at the same time, airborne units as part of the US Army also have parachute landings, with and without equipment, which are also practiced.
    4. +2
      12 February 2025 12: 06
      "No one will launch a major landing without suppressing the enemy's air defenses"
      we started our whole business without worrying about it, that there is any landing force
      1. 0
        12 February 2025 12: 43
        Quote: ZloyKot
        we have started our kiss,
        For this, one must assume, some leaders will have to answer someday, especially if the SVO ends with a new "Khasavyurt".
        1. +2
          12 February 2025 12: 56
          "I suppose I'll have to answer for this someday,"
          yes, but I'm afraid not in our lifetime. especially since the main figure is already concerned about his immunity
    5. +1
      13 February 2025 10: 21
      Quote: Per se.
      No one will launch a large-scale landing without suppressing the enemy’s air defenses, without the element of surprise.

      In 08.08.08 without suppressing enemy air defenses managed to start air strikes with "iron" on targets deep in enemy territory. The Georgian radar station in Gori, which was practically in the combat zone, provided air situation information to its air defense for three days.
      1. +1
        13 February 2025 10: 28
        There are always options and exceptions to the rules. To sum it up, we need to reform our entire army, not remake paratroopers into assault troops or motorized riflemen, but create assault brigades in the ground forces, if there is such a need. I repeat, with a "beautiful uniform", traditions, heavy equipment, and, most importantly, with excellent training. Otherwise, we will ruin our best airborne forces in the world, and we will not solve the problems in the infantry.
      2. 0
        14 February 2025 16: 47
        "without suppressing the enemy's air defenses, they managed to launch air strikes"
        That's where they shot down the Tu-22. The enemy's air defense is a Buk.
  8. +1
    12 February 2025 06: 40
    The military, like education, is very conservative. If something works well, don't even think about touching it, much less improving it. The best is the enemy of the good.

    That's true. But Russia has its own way. And if something doesn't work well - it (or "them") is not touched either.
    What works poorly for us - SVO has shown very clearly. But... this is the same Russian way.
    1. 0
      14 February 2025 16: 49
      "What we don't do well - SVO has shown very clearly"
      It's a pity that she didn't show that it works well for us
  9. +4
    12 February 2025 07: 11
    The parachute has already become some kind of fetish. It is one of the means of delivery to the place, and therefore it must be left in the training system, as a method of psychological preparation and a means of delivery. Because our concept of the Airborne Forces revolves mainly around the parachute. In reality, the Airborne Forces really should be considered as airmobile troops that are able to get to the battlefield by various means, both by land and by air. High-altitude jumps and paragliding should be left to the Special Operations Forces, since they require special training.
    1. +2
      12 February 2025 07: 56
      Quote: Letnab
      The parachute has already turned into some kind of fetish.
      It's just that for some reason some people only understand the Airborne Forces with a parachute, and the main application is only parachute landing (although this is one of the options). It's hard to disagree in general, - "In reality, the Airborne Forces should really be viewed as airmobile troops that are capable of reaching the battlefield by various means, both by land and by air.".
    2. 0
      12 February 2025 09: 06
      Quote: Letnab
      The parachute has already turned into some kind of fetish...

      I wholeheartedly support this.
  10. +4
    12 February 2025 07: 18
    A true article, I agree, rename it to assault infantry! They don't jump anywhere, the equipment is worthless, the good training of the fighters is not used to its full potential. How many years of talk went on and now the war has put everything as it is. Everyone saw everything, what can I say?
    1. +2
      12 February 2025 09: 13
      The imbalance needs to be corrected: fewer airborne units, more airborne assault units. And helicopters, both airborne and attack, need to be included in the airborne assault units' OShS
  11. +1
    12 February 2025 07: 19
    Let's touch on the origins of the Airborne Forces. These troops were born before the beginning of World War II. The main task of the Airborne Forces is the enemy's rear, if we are talking about parachute landing. Air defense at that time allowed landing relatively safely. If the operation was carried out correctly. Plus, the armament of the enemy's infantry units left at least some chance for the paratroopers to stay alive and complete the task.
    What's today? Air defense, if it exists, shoots down everything. The enemy's infantry units are armed so that paratroopers have no chance.
    Imagine the Gostomel landing in today's conditions. The paratroopers would have been covered at the moment of landing by Hymars and other MLRS. (And the landing principle is not important, whether parachute or airborne). And they would have been finished off by drones. And without even coming into fire contact.
    The Airborne Forces and Marines are certainly the elite. And paratroopers, in a modern war, should be the elite of the elite. And their tasks should be appropriate.
    For example, the landing of a small number of people for target designation.
    In this case, 1 missile can do more than a regiment of paratroopers.
    1. -3
      12 February 2025 07: 46
      Quote: 26_Sergey_26
      What's today? Air defense, if there is one, shoots down everything.

      We have air defense - but it hits the regions quite a bit. And even military facilities - the same Toropets.
      SVO is a truly strange operation, and drawing any conclusions based on it is strange.
      The Airborne Forces' targets have always been in the rear or deep in the rear.
      In this case, these are bridges across the Dnieper, the border between Ukraine and Europe - where the armament is carried out, the Black Sea ports, and Europe - these are also the rear.
      But this cannot be touched - and here is the justification - airborne troops are not needed, the Russian Armed Forces have only one tactic left - a frontal assault on the strongholds.
  12. +5
    12 February 2025 07: 34
    A modern paratrooper needs a parachute. There is a good extra pay for parachute jumps. That's the only plus
  13. +3
    12 February 2025 07: 37
    As soon as the SVO ends with Russia's victory, orders from abroad will simply cover the military-industrial complex

    Do the Chinese know about this and are they ready to give up the market that they have completely taken over during the SVO?
  14. 0
    12 February 2025 07: 42
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    You just described the design of a motorized paraglider.

    They are primitive to the point of ugliness.
    Although there are rumors that Hamas used them against the IDF.
    1. +1
      12 February 2025 09: 21
      Although there are rumors that Hamas used them against the IDF.
      It was in the early 80s, and these were motorized hang gliders. They were used successfully, and only after that the bronzed head of the DOSAAF USSR Pokryshkin gave the go-ahead for the development of hang gliding sports within the framework of DOSAAF. Before that, everything depended on enthusiasts.
  15. +4
    12 February 2025 07: 46
    The Airborne Forces are a stillborn branch of the military, no one needed them from the very beginning of their existence, and the landing operations in the Great Patriotic War showed the stupidity of such operations on a large scale. In fact, paratroopers in our time are infantry in a beautiful uniform. If there is air defense and aviation, the landing force will not come close to the front line, the maximum you can throw out is a sabotage group by helicopters or very high-speed and low-flying aircraft, which do not exist now.
  16. -2
    12 February 2025 07: 53
    What if we look a little "from above"?
    Our enemy actually has no airborne forces.
    But they were able to invade the Kursk region, captured Sudzha and other settlements, but did not reach the nuclear power plant.
    And what if it had? What would the situation look like now? A simultaneous strike/invasion on the ground and from the air - and here we have a grand "dirty bomb".
    1. +2
      12 February 2025 08: 48
      He has airborne units, they reformed their VDV. We have many problems for an airborne operation, even with the suppression of all air defense of the route and landing zone, we do not have the required number of VTA aircraft to land an VDV division with all the equipment and property. What can we say about strategic operations with the landing of several divisions. And in the conditions of the SVO, airborne assault units are more likely needed, and so, from our couch, we can always see better what needs to be done, how to do it. Do not take this personally, this is sarcasm.
    2. +1
      12 February 2025 09: 11
      Quote: Vladimir-TTT
      What if it were?

      Then the planes would have been shot down over Ukrainian territory and it would have been the same as now, only they would have had much more losses and the entire propaganda effect of the invasion would have been blurred. Unfortunately for us, they did everything right.
      1. -2
        12 February 2025 09: 13
        The ground preparation and invasion were not noticed - but would they have been shot down in the air?
        1. +1
          12 February 2025 09: 16
          They would have easily noticed it in the air. The altitude is not small, the plane itself is huge in size, it would have shone on the radar like a searchlight. They would have brought everything down, and this landing force would have revealed the entire ground group, at least the seriousness of their intentions. But at the beginning, everyone was somehow sure that it was a simple sabotage sortie.
        2. 0
          12 February 2025 11: 49
          Quote: Vladimir-TTT
          The ground preparation and invasion were not noticed - but would they have been shot down in the air?

          So you can't camouflage the plane in the air and you can't fly it in secret. And you'll have to parachute enough forces to get through the same Vovans from the NPP security. The result is a huge spot on the IKO and the best targets for the air defense forces.
    3. 0
      12 February 2025 10: 21
      The Ukies had airborne troops, inherited from the USSR, but they reorganized them into airmobile units. And now these units are considered to be among the most combat-ready in the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
      Theoretically, the Ukrainians could find several transport ANs, but trying to land troops from them would be pure suicide.
  17. +1
    12 February 2025 08: 08
    They will leave the Airborne Forces despite all reasonable arguments. The world is not based on reason, but on show-offs! laughing
  18. -1
    12 February 2025 08: 51
    maybe we should change the approach to aviation that should deliver the landing force? light aircraft break through quite well, examples are strikes on Kazan and Ust-Luga and other cities of Russia in the deep rear, if you send landing forces on huge IL-76, then yes, soon with such an approach even in a banana republic it will not be possible to land, and if it is a small, light, maneuverable aircraft and there are thousands of them, then even powerful air defense will not be able to stop them, especially if the operation is well planned, and the fact that an infantryman in the enemy rear, especially well trained and armed, can cause trouble (even without armored vehicles) this seems to me an indisputable fact, it is impossible to dislodge landing forces that captured, say, a small city in the rear without destroying this city, look at the realities of the SVO, and if there are many such cities and towns? this is paralyzed logistics and the ability of the enemy army to maneuver on its own territory, this is exactly what the German troops did with tank wedges in 41, the consequences for the Red Army were extremely grave....
  19. BAI
    0
    12 February 2025 09: 10
    but even this did not allow for a full-scale landing in Afghanistan

    Land on the rocks? Half the landing party will break their legs.
  20. +1
    12 February 2025 09: 53
    The article describes the difficulties competently. Everything is correct. BUT, a landing, whether from the sky to the ground, or from the sea to the shore - this is first of all the will and courage of people - fighters, based on faith and our great blood traditions to win. You have to be insane to voluntarily refuse and lose all this in your right mind and sound memory. The article outlines the idea - technical capabilities do not correspond to the needs and realities of the theater of operations. However, everyone understands that equipment without people is dead weight. If we lose people, poisoning them with doubts about their need, there is no need to create equipment at all. Conclusion: technical issues are a purely management task. Well, then create groups (sharashkas), set tasks to think, invent, create (paratrooper backpack, capsules ...), experiment, modernize, etc.
    1. 0
      12 February 2025 14: 44
      Quote: Vetal999
      Well, then create it.
      They don't want to do this. You need heavy infantry, so create it, with equipment, with a "nice uniform", traditions, with excellent training. No, let's change the Airborne Forces. As a result, the message is clear, to lose the gap that was obtained from the power of the USSR, and not to create a new one.
      1. 0
        13 February 2025 09: 05
        To create something, you need an IDEA, a plan and political will, there is 100% money for it. The problem is with / in the chairs of the ingrown crown holders on budget streams. In general, it is not a problem (including with the use of AI programs), to prepare proposals, organize, launch and implement processes: collecting information, analyzing and understanding it, developing options, modeling these options, making samples and pilot testing, collecting statistics .... (i.e. all those actions that allowed the creation of the marines of the late USSR in their time - they swam a mile, ran 25 km, entered the battle and fought with everything at hand - I exaggerate to get the point across). This means that we need new commanders who value their service, strive for something new, development and self-improvement and would be inspired by the idea of ​​​​increasing the power of the landing force. (Children are already constructing drones and twisting/turning AI as they please. Can't dads figure it out?) Ah, old stumps who think in the old way, along with their armchairs - to the dacha to weed the beds and write memoirs.
      2. +1
        13 February 2025 09: 36
        And one more thing. You can understand the uncles from the headquarters: everything that is not according to the regulations is heresy. Many do not want changes as human beings and/or have settled in warmly - they have forgotten the everyday life of lieutenants. The system is strictly conservative from the very beginning. They are afraid to admit to THEMSELVES that changes are inevitable, like our victory. However, now you can think about it and create 2 - 3 experienced / experimental units from guys with limited abilities after injuries. They are generators of ideas, options and solutions based on personal experience. To them "sharashkas with smart guys". You do not need a lot of money at once for this. Let them be staffed not according to the staff, let them be 2-3 dozen personnel at first. The main thing is bones, the meat will grow.
  21. +6
    12 February 2025 10: 01
    I would like to give an example. Just don't talk about its ephemeral nature, before 2010 only madmen and science fiction writers talked about a war between Ukraine and Russia. Here is the suddenly banned Russian Volunteer Corps of degenerates (and in fact Finns, Norwegians and Swedes in bulk, etc., but with the symbols of the RDK) during exercises on the Finnish side conduct a tactical helicopter landing on our territory in the Alakkurti region, they are supported by troops that have crossed the state border. By the end of the day they reach Kandalaksha and cut off almost the entire Murmansk region from Russia, at the same time cutting off the only federal highway "Kola" and the October railway. The Northern Fleet is cut off from supplies by land. A ready-made puppet government is brought in and the territory of Free Russia is proclaimed.
    How will you move troops there except by land, if the bridges across the Neva, Volkhov, Oyat, Pasha, Svir, Kem, Shuya and Onega rivers, which are guarded at best by two old men with clubs, as well as all the overpasses, which are not guarded at all, will be blown up by unknown persons, the ferries across the Svir to Voznesenye will be flooded, and the locks on the White Sea-Baltic Canal, two is enough, will be blown up?
    It's not funny about the Yabdrёn-baton on one's own territory, but on the enemy's territory, that is if the enemy has identification marks at all, and not the "official" RDC and 100500 TV cameras broadcasting the invasion to the whole world live about how "real" Russians are liberating their land?
    PSRDK and corrupted degenerates are prohibited by law in Russia.
    1. +2
      12 February 2025 11: 51
      Quote: Blue Fox
      How are you going to transfer troops there except by land?

      Read the article carefully: it is proposed to leave airmobility and airborne landing in the Airborne Forces. And to abandon 100% parachute landing (reducing it to several battalions), which in practice has never been useful, except in exercises.
      1. +3
        12 February 2025 13: 32
        Read the article carefully: it is proposed to retain airmobility and airborne landing in the Airborne Forces. And to abandon 100% parachute landing (reducing it to several battalions), which in practice has never been useful, except in exercises

        Landing site where? Since you are reproaching me for poor reading, then look at the number of landing sites suitable today for the transfer of not just infantry, but something like BTR-BMD. And how far are they from the adjacent territory. After all, the game will be played for time, who will take strategic points faster, and walking there on foot is oh so long and sad against strikers. Or should we stuff a donkey into a Mi-24 and drive? How many Mi-26s are there on the move?
        1. +1
          12 February 2025 14: 53
          Our Airborne Forces are really getting on someone's nerves, no one criticizes or advises changing other branches of the military so much. We need to optimize the Airborne Forces, just as we optimized the entire army earlier, turning the might of the Soviet Army into the might of the Russian Army. It's been almost 3 years since the SVO, but they point to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they liquidated and transformed their Airborne Forces, as well as their Marines without the Navy, here's a role model...
          1. +1
            13 February 2025 09: 50
            Why do we need their debiloid experience? Just to laugh.
        2. 0
          12 February 2025 16: 42
          Quote: Blue Fox
          Boarding where?

          To airfields - dirt roads and from highways.
          Or are you suggesting to drop troops by parachute, carefully dispersing them over the terrain? On light equipment, practically without artillery or air defense?
          1. +2
            12 February 2025 18: 37
            To airfields - dirt roads and from highways.

            Now, in the specific example I have given, find on the map a currently suitable unpaved airfield for landing north of Petrozavodsk and up to Kandalaksha. As well as a suitable (adapted) section of the federal highway "Kola" (other highways can not even be considered due to their dilapidation). And also one to which it is possible to drag at least a BTR-82A in commercial quantities by landing to form at least one BTG, which is so unloved now.
            I gave an example about the Murmansk region, but if we consider what is happening beyond the Ural Mountains along the same Northern Sea Route, or the border with China, then everything becomes even more interesting in terms of the issue of organizing a mass transfer of troops to these regions if something happens.
            1. 0
              12 February 2025 21: 33
              Dear friend, even if you can't find a relatively flat area of ​​ground surface on the map, it doesn't mean that they don't exist in principle. Or that they can't be made for a relatively small price. If there is an IL-76 for parachute landing, then these same IL-76 can be used for the landing method.
              1. +2
                12 February 2025 21: 58
                Dear friend, even if you can't find a relatively flat area of ​​ground surface on the map, it doesn't mean that they don't exist in principle. Or that they can't be made for a relatively small price. If there is an IL-76 for parachute landing, then these same IL-76 can be used for the landing method.

                For landing of Il-76 one-way we need a strip of about 1 km, and if we plan to use it not one-way, then 2 km. And a decent width, the machine is not small and the wingspan is decent. And most importantly, the strip must withstand a decent load. For example, the existing runway of the former Girvas airfield in Karelia is suitable in length, but even in better times it was prohibited for Il-76, and after it became ownerless and was used as a construction camp for gas workers, the condition did not improve. Regarding 4 more airfields, the PAG slabs on the main runways have been almost completely torn out, and the backup unpaved runways are overgrown with weeds. This is what was there and even that has not been preserved, and when are we going to build new ones? Or at least not send sewn and ready-made parachutes to the scrap heap and prepare soldiers for mass landing? What is cheaper?
                Well, and in time (wet dreams), swarms of drones with Armatas will be churned out. And then we will define the paratroopers as space marines.
            2. 0
              13 February 2025 10: 39
              Quote: Blue Fox
              Now, in the specific example I have given, find on the map a dirt airfield that is currently suitable for landing north of Petrozavodsk and up to Kandalaksha.

              Poduzhemye - near Kem. I don't suggest landing on Loukhi-3, although Yandex blurs everything in the area of ​​the airfield.

              When landing by parachute in Karelia, more time will be spent on assembling units on the ground than when landing by airborne landing on transfer from the nearest airfield or airfield.
              Moreover, in hard-to-reach areas all the fighting will be near the roads anyway. Outside these areas, according to the experience of 1944, only very light infantry will pass.
              1. +2
                13 February 2025 11: 04
                Poduzhemia - near Kemya.

                As of the summer of 2023, the remaining usable strip of the PAG is about 700 meters, the main runway is overgrown with small trees and plowed by tracked vehicles used to steal slabs from the main runway.
                The Louhi-3 runway currently accommodates... in general, let there be a regiment of helicopters in a dispersed position with the ability to take off like an airplane. The main runway is too short for all military transport aircraft.
                That's the point, the reconstruction of airfields and runways has only been loudly announced for over a year now, and...
                When landing by parachute in Karelia, more time will be spent on assembling units on the ground

                In better times, before 2022, the 76th Airborne Division with equipment could have been parachuted into the Kandalaksha area, approaching it from the Arkhangelsk region through the White Sea, remaining under the cover of air defense and fighters outside the range of air defense from Finland and closer.
                Outside these directions, based on the experience of 1944, only very light infantry will be able to pass.

                This is if the invasion does not take place in winter or if the enemy does not massively use helicopter tactical landings at extremely low altitudes (which the same Norwegians and Finns have been actively practicing since 2014, including in the conditions of Lapland).
                In general, what I'm getting at is that while we are weak where we are weak from what we have, it would be reckless to refuse.
        3. +1
          13 February 2025 09: 59
          Don't make waves over the details. Paratroopers will turn their fur inside out for trying to take away a toy. I won't even mention vests and berets. I can't imagine any Kamekazov who would even mention this. I think the parachute will remain a rescue tool anyway.
  22. +1
    12 February 2025 10: 08
    Listen, you are arguing apolitically! The VDV is a multi-billion dollar holding company for which both the military-industrial complex and propaganda work. How much money is spent on separate weapons systems for the VDV? Are they going to be cut down or something? And who will bathe in the fountains? Drone drivers with glasses? And where should the generals in striped shirts go? Into the regular infantry, in the makhra? This is all extremism and the breaking of bonds!
  23. -1
    12 February 2025 10: 14
    P.S.: Only a real war showed the complete uselessness of the Airborne Forces as a branch of the military and the awareness of the lost funds for their training, equipment, and creation of military equipment.
    1. 0
      13 February 2025 10: 48
      The real war showed that in fact, apart from the special forces, airborne forces and marines, there was no one to fight. And as always, we decided to hammer nails with a microscope, forgetting that these types of troops have THEIR OWN specific use.
      And the ground troops...what about the ground troops? And the ground troops, regardless of the Airborne Forces, have failed to modernize and prepare their branch of the military before the war.
      1. 0
        14 February 2025 06: 29
        Quote: Sanguinius
        And the ground forces, regardless of the Airborne Forces, failed to modernize and prepare their branch of the military before the war.

        Yeah, they just went and killed him on purpose. They just fuss over the Airborne Forces like they're the apple of their eye, and they get everything, but the Makhra gets nothing.
        1. 0
          14 February 2025 07: 33
          Yeah, they just went and killed him on purpose.

          I don't know whether it was on purpose or not, but the fact remains that the Ground Forces were not ready for combat operations... and how can you explain that the motorized riflemen had no training at all, the guys were driving the same BMP-2/3, the Ground Forces were understaffed, and their fighting spirit was mediocre. It is not the Airborne Forces' fault that the Ground Forces commander did nothing to improve the situation.
          1. 0
            14 February 2025 10: 59
            Quote: Sanguinius
            It is not the Airborne Forces' fault that the Ground Forces commander did nothing to improve the situation.

            Well, it's a question of resources and staffing. The Airborne Forces always received the best conscripts in terms of health and education, and the Army sent those who were no good anywhere, as in the saying "in the infantry".
            1. 0
              14 February 2025 14: 07
              Well, what kind of kindergarten is this...nobody is stopping us from popularizing the ground forces...working on the system of selection and staffing with candidates...nobody is stopping us from competently training future officers and contract soldiers for the Ground Forces, just like the Airborne Forces do.
              The question is about the desire to work on improving the troops. And not to look for the guilty on the side.
  24. +1
    12 February 2025 10: 19
    For some reason, no one talks about the wing suit, which can turn a paratrooper into a living imitation of an aerial bomb with a UPMK, when a parachute is needed only at the very end of the flight, upon landing. what
    You can definitely cover 30-40 km with the help of such a suit...
    1. 0
      12 February 2025 11: 43
      Quote: Rage66
      For some reason, no one talks about the wing suit, which can turn a paratrooper into a living imitation of an aerial bomb with a UPMK, when a parachute is needed only at the very end of the flight, upon landing. what
      You can definitely cover 30-40 km with the help of such a suit...

      So what next? Surrender?
      1. -1
        12 February 2025 18: 03
        And was the landing force originally intended for surrender?
        I'm too lazy to explain to you, google what landing is needed for
        1. 0
          12 February 2025 18: 26
          Quote: Rage66
          And was the landing force originally intended for surrender?
          I'm too lazy to explain to you, google what landing is needed for

          To end up 30-40 km behind the lines without weapons or supplies? If the plane doesn't get shot down on the way. The wing suit record is 30 km, if that matters. Without anything. And the front is advancing at a teaspoon per month. You won't even be able to shoot yourself there, there won't be anything to shoot with.
          1. 0
            12 February 2025 18: 43
            I'm not interested in talking to a pessimistic teapot.
            You belong to a special caste of people who, before doing something, will find a thousand reasons why it shouldn't be done...
            Farewell hi
            1. +1
              12 February 2025 18: 52
              Quote: Rage66
              I'm not interested in talking to a pessimistic teapot.
              You belong to a special caste of people who, before doing something, will find a thousand reasons why it shouldn't be done...
              Farewell hi

              In parting, my dear minus-user, I will say that just yesterday I spoke about this topic with the guys. The conversation immediately came down to the fact that "it's a pity we didn't get the bonus this year - 250 thousand rubles will be lost". No one even hinted at using a parachute in combat.
              Farewell
    2. 0
      12 February 2025 12: 25
      Who jumps off this wing in the linear units of the Airborne Forces? In which Airborne Forces? To "operate" it, you need to train a lot and for a long time, and this is fuel, engine life, time and finally personnel who serve for a very long time, so this suit is more likely for the Special Operations Forces and the 45th Airborne Brigade.
    3. +2
      13 February 2025 11: 15
      Quote: Rage66
      For some reason, no one talks about the wing suit, which can turn a paratrooper into a living imitation of an aerial bomb with a UPMK, when a parachute is needed only at the very end of the flight, upon landing.

      That is, we have a paratrooper fully equipped for landing. Hung with weapons in front and behind, unloading, a landing backpack weighing 30-35 kg and a parachute system.
      And now with all this he has to glide in a wingsuit.
      The only option for planning such a heavy object with the aerodynamics of a brick is to put it in a fairing and screw it to the UMPK for the FAB-250. smile
  25. -1
    12 February 2025 10: 23
    Probably, it is necessary to change the proportions between airborne assault (essentially airmobile) and parachute assault units in favor of the former. And is the status of the Airborne Forces as a separate branch of the armed forces necessary? Perhaps it would be better to include in the Ground Forces, say, one corps of central subordination, which would include a significant part of the airborne assault and the main part of the parachute assault units, and several airborne assault brigades and regiments as part of combined arms armies and (or) military districts. And, perhaps, several separate airmobile battalions as part of the Aerospace Forces and Strategic Missile Forces?
  26. 0
    12 February 2025 10: 30
    What nonsense. Before the SVO, they reasoned that infantry with normal reinforcement units had died out and now there would only be battalion groups. So what? Infantry without reinforcement units dominates the battlefield. And battalion groups have quietly and imperceptibly "died." So the Airborne Forces with airborne landings will not die out, but will still show themselves if they do not listen to the author of the article. I don't know about the author, but the Russians have a saying: "A spoon is dear to dinner."
    1. 0
      12 February 2025 12: 28
      Don't compare counter-insurgency operations with a full-fledged combined arms battle with all its components.
  27. 0
    12 February 2025 10: 36
    All this has happened before. Look at the experience of the USSR in using airborne units in WWII. There were two practically failed operations, Vyazemskaya and Dnieper. After Dnieper, the practice of mass landings was stopped. Only pinpoint special operations with small forces remained. All airborne divisions were combined into a separate guards army and used as infantry. And they were armed and trained as standard linear infantry units. What the Allies managed in Normandy was, by and large, never repeated anywhere on such a scale. And the success of the airborne assault was primarily due to the rapid landing of reinforcement units and a huge superiority in forces. Crete also showed the limits of the airborne forces' ability to conduct operations on their own. But the losses were such that the Germans did not think about anything like that again until the end of the war.
  28. +1
    12 February 2025 10: 56
    The author considers the Ukrainian conflict as a key experience of reframing, forgetting two things: the conflict can be much smaller in area and intensity, or much greater. If the front line had a length of 3000-4000 kilometers, landing operations would be guarded, since it is unrealistic to close such a line with air defense and it is easier to make breaches in it.
  29. 0
    12 February 2025 11: 15
    The airborne troops underwent serious changes in the first weeks of the SVO. First of all, in the tactics of using the most combat-ready units of the Russian Army. Instead of storming command posts in the enemy's rear, the paratroopers mastered the skills of well-trained, but still infantry.

    Spawn this did not happen, and again the same thing. ©
    Yes, the Airborne Forces have been used since the suppression of the rebellion in Hungary winged infantry: landing, then advancement on equipment and combat.
    Moreover, if the battles dragged on, the airborne forces began to mutate towards motorized riflemen. In the same Afghanistan, the 345th separate airborne airborne regiment changed both its staff and equipment to those as close as possible to the motorized riflemen.
    First, the enemy must have a very symbolic air defense. The enemy cannot have anything heavier than MANPADS.

    If the enemy has MANPADS, then the parachute landing becomes more complicated. Because the drop will have to be carried out from heights above the ceiling of the MANPADS, which will increase the dispersion of the landing paratroopers and equipment on the terrain.
    First, it is necessary to process the air defense position areas with several hundred missiles, then knock out the remnants with manned (or unmanned) aircraft, and only then lift the Il-76 with the landing force into the sky.

    The main stage has been forgotten: first, the enemy's air defense system must be completely exposed. Otherwise, where to launch the missiles?
    Given the mobility of all air defense systems, this task is becoming a non-routine one. It used to be simpler: even the country's mobile S-75 and S-125 air defense systems had several pre-prepared OPs per division (visible even from space) and, if you strain yourself, you could handle them all (at the cost of a wild expenditure of missiles). But now the SAMs are deployed right in an open field and leave for the same open field after launch.
    Even if a massive strike is simulated before suppressing the air defense, there is no guarantee that all positions will be exposed when it is repelled. Someone may be reloading, someone may be in the process of changing positions, someone will have time to leave (especially nimble army air defense). And someone will be sitting like a potato moth © on the equivalent in reserve, just in case of an opponent who considers himself the smartest.
  30. 0
    12 February 2025 11: 54
    However, parachute jumping as an additional skill to a combat specialty is not superfluous. Even if only just in case.
    In addition, along with such things as tank testing or a napalm strip, they help to pass a tough selection for self-control and determination: there is always a percentage of those who are not psychologically fighters: they cannot force themselves to step into fire, wait for an approaching tank, step overboard from an airplane.
    He is overcome by panic or stupor, and it is difficult or impossible to recover - these reactions are deep spinal, at the level of instinct. Although, being eliminated from the role of a paratrooper, attack aircraft, pilot, such a fighter can be quite successful, for example, as a sapper, where it is no less dangerous, but panic does not cover.
    Well, in a serious war not with the Papuans, yes, until teleportation is invented, no landing force, even an RDG, is practically impossible. And the fact that the production of bombs with wings has been established so as not to enter the air defense zone should not mislead: it is impossible to transport a person and equipment at the speed of a UFAB.
  31. 0
    12 February 2025 11: 59
    And what will the author hide behind if China suddenly wants to take a stroll through Siberia? Or, for example, Japan will enter the Kuril Islands. Although if we look at the Kursk region, there are big doubts about the possibility of such operations.
    You can forget about the depth of enemy airborne defense in principle, unless they are natives with Kalashnikovs. But even in this case, it is cheaper to land them on airfields and ride in armor.
    1. 0
      12 February 2025 16: 46
      Quote: Demon
      And what will the author hide behind if China suddenly wants to take a stroll through Siberia?

      Certainly not light infantry parachuted into the taiga. smile
      But the author did not cancel landing and airmobility.
      1. 0
        13 February 2025 15: 22
        Is there a place to land there everywhere, and then march on foot through the forests? But regular infantry can do the same. Why do we need a separate branch of the military then?
  32. 0
    12 February 2025 12: 21
    If you can today, with the existing level of development of intelligence systems, ensure the secrecy of the concentration of aircraft, military equipment and personnel at known airfields, then "yes" it is necessary to develop this method of transferring forces...
  33. 0
    12 February 2025 13: 26
    Interestingly, the landing force can get rid of its problems while retaining its advantages if it abandons the expensive, yet weak, BMD and other equipment based on it.
    The presence of BMD automatically requires the use of Il-76, of which we do not have many, and the plane itself is large and easy to shoot down. Many have already said that this equipment provides protection only from small arms. And even then, if you are unlucky enough to run into a large-caliber machine gun of the enemy or shrapnel from artillery shells, then the BMD will not save you. The BMD itself, although more compact than the BMP and especially a tank, is still a large machine noticeable on the battlefield, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - it requires large dimensions of aircraft for transportation and landing.
    The Airborne Forces need a means of fire impact - so now there are many portable systems capable of causing serious damage to the enemy. ATGMs, grenade launchers, mortars and now also FPV drones with explosives. The pinpoint use of these means (especially with the presence of FPV) allows for significant damage to the enemy, even without having their own large artillery or tanks in the units.
    But for some kind of protection, the ability to fire at the enemy on the move, and the ability to place provisions for the duration of the operation, I would put the Airborne Forces on 2 models of equipment.
    These are compact buggies that can fit in the Mi-8 cabin (but in extreme cases, they can be mounted on an external sling). The buggy is used as a reconnaissance vehicle, for flank attacks, for rapid evacuation of the wounded, or for delivering ammunition. Only the weapons that the infantry can carry and use when removed from the buggy are placed on the buggy. Machine guns, automatic grenade launchers, MANPADS, and possibly some ATGMs.
    Part of the buggy should have niches for storing supplies for the crew. And part of the shelves should be designed for use as a simple "seat" when you need to pick up one of the fighters to give a lift to one place or another.
    Buggies without armor. We will bet on speed, cross-country ability, maneuverability and small size of the buggy. And to strengthen and increase the survivability of the Airborne Forces, they will have other equipment
    A small all-terrain vehicle-tankette, like the German Wiesel 1/2. A small armored tankette on tracks, with anti-bullet protection in the frontal projection and a little on the sides. On a gasoline engine (just like a buggy, by the way, so that it would be possible to use the fuel taken in the rear). It accommodates 2 people. A driver mechanic and a gunner commander.
    Such a machine can accelerate to 60 km/h. Also quite fast, and at the same time it is passable and maneuverable. BUT smaller in size and weight than the BMD. The tankette is designed so that it could be transported with a crew by the Mi-8.
    This tankette will be used in several basic configurations.
    1) Commander's (with a machine gun turret and means of communication and control of formations)
    2) reconnaissance (with a machine gun turret and a telescopic boom with optical and radio-electronic equipment, can carry a pair of reconnaissance drones on board)
    3) Heavy weapons carrier (equipped with a large-caliber machine gun, anti-tank missile system, automatic cannon, air defense missile system or mortar)
    4) Medical (without weapons, but with a set of medical equipment and the ability to transport 1-2 wounded in a prone position
    5) transport (version with a slightly longer body, to be able to transport more boxes with supplies or 4 paratroopers)

    Such a set of equipment will allow the landing force to be able to land deep behind the front line, but without the need to use heavy aviation. At the same time, when landing, the landing force remains motorized and maintains high mobility, and the presence of equipment and weapons on board the buggy and tankettes will maintain operational awareness and high firepower. The lack of heavy armor (which in fact is not particularly there now) we replace with high mobility, awareness and the ability to fire and some types of weapons on the move. While they themselves are not only fast, but also small for the enemy, and due to their numbers, they will also be heavily dispersed on the terrain (it is possible to practice in exercises a formation with such a distance between the machines that the explosion of one does not affect the other, but also to quickly drive up to each other if necessary). At the same time, anti-personnel mines will be ineffective against such equipment, and anti-tank mines (some) will not work due to their low weight. At the same time, it maintains high cross-country ability (but without the need to form water barriers), which means that movements and maneuvers can easily take place not only on roads (as is relevant for armored vehicles), but also directly through fields and snow with ravines and hills.
  34. 0
    12 February 2025 13: 58
    I support the authors who express the opinion to leave the parachute for the SSO. Add them a fleet of gliders, teach them to use wigsuits (wing suit). And the rest in the assault infantry. Yes, physical training, fire training, sapper work and other things that were in the Airborne Forces will be preserved. But the last time combat use was in the USSR was in 1942 and was so unsuccessful that it was not used again until the end of the war. Moreover, the air defense of that time and the means of detecting flying objects were laughable compared to today. The dispersion of the landing force over the area, the shortage and loss of ammunition. Hundreds of prisoners. That's what airborne operations are.
  35. +1
    12 February 2025 15: 37
    A second Uncle Vasya is needed to reform the Airborne Forces. At least someone close to Vasily Filippovich is needed, someone who will be like him in character and spirit. But, after 30 years of placing loyal people in positions, negative selection is simply everywhere. And our "effective" managers will be afraid of a second Margelov.
  36. 0
    12 February 2025 16: 53
    The Airborne Forces have outlived their usefulness as a separate branch of the armed forces. Mass landing operations are certainly not expected with the current level of air defense and reconnaissance. Regular motorized riflemen can be parachuted from helicopters, as was the case in Gostomel. The Airborne Forces exist only because of excessive publicity and because they are a sacred cow for the country's leadership. And a very expensive one, by the way...
    1. 0
      13 February 2025 20: 29
      Vulpes, it is difficult for me to judge your military training and knowledge in this "branch of the national economy", but I want to NOTE to you that each type and branch of the armed forces has its own fairly specific tasks... They have not changed and are not changing for the Airborne Forces, to this day... And about "mass landing operations with the current level of air defense and reconnaissance" - they are still expected... But with proper preparation of the landing area and the routes of movement of transport aviation in matters of cover, they are protected from air defense - missile defense, electronic warfare - electronic warfare, air and space and frontline reconnaissance, including the creation of false landing areas and routes of movement to them, banal "disinformation" and other "leaks", even in the media... And the fact that the Airborne Forces, in the current war, "pardon" - the Airborne Forces, are used as ordinary infantrymen - attack aircraft, I think that it is not from a good life and not quite the right understanding (who is supposed to do this according to positions) the essence of these troops in the current and future wars....
  37. +1
    12 February 2025 16: 54
    All my life I was puzzled by the idea of ​​spending a lot of money on training people for airborne landings, and then using them in war as simple infantry... And the fact that airborne landings were no longer relevant was already clear in the Second World War.
  38. 0
    12 February 2025 17: 06
    Is the parachute an obsolete piece of combat equipment?
    I read the comments. Well, the opinions are polar, that's how it should be on a military site, and on any site, too. I'll also express my opinion, so many opponents of the Airborne Forces apparently have a poor knowledge of the history of the use of our Airborne Forces in WWII. I'm talking about why there were failures during their use. Well, as for their use in modern conditions of confrontation, some "experts" apparently have a poor understanding of the tactics of using units and subdivisions of the Winged Infantry. The same "smart guys" here were crucifying that floating armored vehicles are not needed, I already answered them, I will not repeat myself. Conclusion: the Airborne Forces are needed, we need to improve the tactics of their use, fill them with modern mobile, compact air defense systems, anti-tank defense, transport, and other means of armed struggle in modern conditions. We are talking about UAVs first of all. Well, let's wish the representatives of this glorious branch of the armed forces good luck, and raise a glass, if possible, to the fact that they are missed! bully
  39. 0
    12 February 2025 17: 08
    This should be the responsibility of special units within the Airborne Forces and the FSB.
  40. 0
    12 February 2025 20: 31
    now the requirements for mobility are different... so the parachute doesn't fit well into these new requirements... They'll make a guided rocket pack and the paratrooper will be a paratrooper again...
  41. 0
    12 February 2025 20: 57
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Add light, powerful engines and controls to the parachute design
    You just described the design of a motorized paraglider. wink


    Truly so!
  42. 0
    12 February 2025 23: 03
    A parachute is for scouts and saboteurs. And it is doubtful that in today's reality it will be possible to parachute them - there is nothing to parachute from!
  43. KCA
    0
    12 February 2025 23: 13
    As the word parachute has always cut me, however, even when I was still in school, it was decided to consider both parachute and parashut correct, just as coffee was allowed in both masculine and feminine genders, that was a long time ago, now I have no time for the Ministry of Education manuals, I decide for myself
  44. 0
    13 February 2025 11: 24
    It will remain in the Airborne Forces as a tool for developing will and character, as well as an element of the identity of the airborne troops. But nothing more.

    You're wrong.

    Look. A signal from the border guards that "there's a breakthrough here."
    An airplane immediately takes off, and infantry and BMDs are parachuted in a couple of kilometers from the expected breakthrough.
    While the unexpected enemy is held back by airborne forces (or even destroyed), tanks and other ground troops rush to the scene.
    In essence, the Airborne Forces can become like a “panic button” for border guards.
    Very fast amplification.
  45. 0
    13 February 2025 13: 44
    Winged jetpacks already exist. Why not try to create the same, and work out the methods of sending large groups of paratroopers to the enemy's immediate rear. So that it would be possible to organize a clampdown on the enemy on the front line, simultaneously from our side and their rear.
    Although then a disadvantage appears - it won't be possible to take heavy weapons with you
  46. 0
    13 February 2025 17: 03
    It's strange, the Americans also have airborne troops, they also undergo parachute training, they also use these units, mostly for ground operations without landing, with the exception of special operations, but for some reason they are not at all eager to cut the parachutes or abandon parachute training...
    1. 0
      14 February 2025 14: 22
      Dear AlexFly! They simply DON'T have such "sophisticated experts" as on "VO"......
  47. 0
    13 February 2025 20: 07
    Every war, Evgeny Fedorov, has its own priorities and favorites... In this SVO, suddenly, various UAVs and drones "lit up"... And why? The supposed strategy of this, essentially, police operation, assumed a ceremonial march of our troops across Ukraine, accompanied by joyful cries, flowers and vodka of "sincere Ukrainians"... But everything, it turned out, was "a little" wrong... "Suddenly" a war was needed, with its "wants" of tactics and strategy... Preventive destruction of air defense and missile defense systems, military bases, military-industrial complex enterprises, military airfields, logistics systems and international military supplies was not carried out... The war was carefully "transferred" to a sluggish, local one.... And new "forms of war" bring to the forefront "new" favorites, where drones also turned out to be, with their capabilities in "this" war... If Russia had used the so-called SVO-TNW on NATO targets in the first days - weeks, and "carpet bombing" on the Ukrainian Reich, drones would not have been remembered, and the favorites would have been front-line aviation, "Solntsepyok" and other "Buratinos"... The parachute has its own special "military destiny" and purpose: to deliver an infantryman, with his assigned artillery, vehicles and other special equipment at the right time in the shortest possible time, regardless of the time of day, preferably to the rear or flank of the enemy... And about special units and their necessary mobility and "flight" time, I think, there is no point in especially spreading..... That's how it is about the parachute and "dancing with tambourines" around drones...
  48. -1
    14 February 2025 19: 23
    What about parachute-less landing systems?
  49. 0
    17 February 2025 20: 42
    Well, well, probably the author has never fallen from a plane, nothing better than a parachute for saving the lives of pilots has been invented, yet. And the Airborne Forces have not been used for their intended purpose in recent years.
  50. 0
    21 February 2025 09: 50
    I think that just like with the cavalry, which was transformed into armored cavalry, i.e. into tank troops, the airborne troops are being transformed into assault infantry or something like that. There have been no mass airborne operations since the Great Patriotic War, and even those were unsuccessful, so we are waiting for the appearance of new RVGK troops.
  51. 0
    16 March 2025 12: 55
    The parachute lived, the parachute is alive, the parachute will live, its use brings all the changes of modern warfare and earlier it was not possible to use a parachute everywhere, it was suicide, there are hundreds of types of parachutes and the degree of use too, without a parachute there is no airborne forces, maybe it's time to come up with a new type of landing force delivery, that is, airplanes and new helicopters, etc.