The Limousines We Lost

138
The Limousines We Lost
The remains of the promising ZIL-4102 named "Misha"


The Decline of the Automobile Empire


The creation of high-class government cars has always been considered the prerogative of select states. One can argue a lot about the sovereignty of a country, but when President Yeltsin switched from a ZIL to a Mercedes-Benz Pullman Guard, Russia's independence was spoken of with great conventionality.



After Vladimir Putin came to power, it took more than ten years before they thought about creating a domestic high-class limousine. The start of the "Cortege" project dates back to 2012, and a couple of years later the car was presented to President Putin. The result of the work was approved, and now we know this car as "Aurus".

It is hardly possible to call it 100 percent Russian - some components were supplied from abroad. In the museum of the Special Purpose Garage, which is at VDNKh, there is a very illustrative stand with elements and units of the Aurus limousine design. The oil filter is made in Austria, the valve timing elements are made in Germany, the ignition coils are made in Turkey, the traction lithium-ion battery is Enertech from South Korea, and so on. In fairness, the latter company was absorbed by the Rosatom corporation back in 2023.

One can only hope that all imported components on the "Auruses" of the country's top officials have long been replaced by domestic analogues. Be that as it may, the government flagship of Russian production with some imported parts is in any case better than the German Mercedes-Benz.




Mercedes-Benz has long been the main vehicle of the Special Purpose Garage

Here the hackneyed cliche about how our grandfathers (fathers) could do better is just begging to be used. A cliche is a cliche, but that's exactly it. Let's digress from the topic of modern executive cars and return to the 80s. And the exhibition "Design under the heading "secret" 1922-2022", which was held in 2023 in the Special Purpose Garage Museum at VDNKh, will help us with this. At that time, Muscovites and guests of the capital were shown about five hundred sketches, 23 models in varying degrees of preservation and artifacts stories modern project "Cortege".

But of particular interest is the search for the appearance of the new flagship of the domestic automobile industry – a limousine for General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev. Since the mid-80s, the ZIL-41047 served as the main representative limousine. It is very difficult to call the car innovative – it was a cosmetically refreshed ZIL-41045, which, in turn, is a product of a deep restyling of the ZIL-114. The latter was born in 1967 and by the mid-80s it was outdated not only technically, but also morally.

It should be noted that the Soviet school of building high-class limousines did not evolve on its own. The main reference point was the Cadillac and Lincoln of the Presidents of the United States. The cars regularly met each other both on foreign tours and in the Soviet Union. Therefore, it was very important for the first car of the state to have no less solid appearance than the member-carrier from the White House. And this clearly worked out.


The ZIL-41047 looked quite respectable against the backdrop of the American Caddy.

Despite the rather archaic architecture of the limousine – a frame body structure and a 3-speed automatic transmission – some technical solutions of the ZILs are impressive even now. The main customer was the Special Purpose Garage, and its requirements sometimes seemed absurd. For example, the car of the first person had to move without any comments with the accelerator pedal fully depressed until the fuel in the tanks was exhausted. This is an extreme operating mode, which places special demands on the cooling and lubrication system.

During testing at the Dmitrov proving ground in the Moscow region, the oil on one of the ZIL-41042s chronically failed to drain into the sump, and the oil receiver worked idle several times. The result was oil starvation, a broken connecting rod, a punctured cylinder block, and oil gushing onto a hot manifold. The ZIL miraculously did not burn out. The problem was solved by reducing the engine speed by lowering the final drive ratio. In the 80s, government ZILs were the only production cars in the world capable of drying out the fuel tank on the highway in continuous "full-throttle" mode.








Passenger ZILs were never produced on a conveyor belt. Only on stocks. In the photo are the forms on which the craftsmen tapped out the steel body panels. All the flaws were generously masked with tin.

The designers of the ZiL passenger car division also pleased us with much more subtle technical solutions. Nowadays, active radars and automatic braking systems are nothing new, but in the early 80s, this was a fantasy. At ZiL, they developed, tested, and configured a similar option for the cars of the USSR's top officials on their own initiative.

The heavy limousine stopped automatically as soon as an obstacle entered its echolocator field. But it was the onboard radars that let the designers down - according to the GON specialists, the attackers could have faked the reflected signal and forcibly stopped the motorcade.

The ZiL engineers' portfolio included another trendy feature - a system for automatically maintaining a constant body height. The chief designer of the top-class ZiL-4104 vehicle, I. S. Stepanov, recalls:

"Here's an example: once the driver pulled the car up to the curb, partially going onto it with the rear overhang. And when the passengers were seated in the cabin, the suspension sagged. Not much, but it was enough for the bottom of the trunk to lie on the curb. And the driver can't ask the passengers to get out - he's not the right rank. So the State Traffic Safety Inspectorate tasked us with making a system for maintaining a constant body height. We developed it, tested it, but didn't put it into production - the mechanism turned out to be very complex, expensive and, at the same time, rarely really necessary."

Design is classified as "secret"


In 1985, the Soviet Union had big plans for the future of domestic luxury cars. At that time, car manufacturers delighted consumers with new technology, but it was luxury cars that were of particular interest. The program was called "List of models of promising luxury passenger cars ZiL" and assumed ten limousine options at once. The document was agreed upon with the 9th Directorate of the State Security Committee and was designed for the period 1985-2000.

The plans included a sedan (regular and armored), a station wagon for special communications, a limousine (regular and armored), a convertible, and even a landau-type body with a hard top over the driver's compartment and a folding top over the passenger compartment. They also envisioned a limousine with two seats in the passenger compartment. This "minibus" was intended for security and service personnel. The "black doctor" concept was also continued in the new generation of vehicles - a special station wagon was designed to rescue elderly general secretaries.










The only one to survive was the ZIL-4102 "Raya".






The information plate under the exhibit in the GON museum reads: "Asymmetrical model of ZIL-4101/4102 for wind tunnel testing. The left half (without drawing) is "model #3", the right half (made in detail) is "model #4". Developer: Likhachev Moscow Automobile Plant. Scale 1:5."

Only two cars were built in metal, in the simplest version with a short body. They went down in history under the index 4102, and in common parlance they were called "Raia" and "Misha". From the nicknames it is clear who the cars were intended for. The dark-colored sedan for Mikhail Sergeyevich did not survive to this day - only its front end is taken to exhibitions. But the light-colored "Raia" is alive and is a priceless artifact of a bygone era. It sounds pompous, but that's exactly it. The new generation car received a new monocoque body, a bunch of electronics, fiberglass roof and floor elements, a hood and trunk, the rear suspension evolved from the previous spring to independent. Only the ZIL-4104 engine and 3-speed "automatic" seemed outdated. Both units were inherited from previous models of government ZILs.




Model of the ZIL-4101 limousine. Only preserved in photos.

We lost not only "Raia" and "Misha", but also much more respectable cars. We are talking about the government limousines ZIL-4101 and four-door limousines on its shortened base. The latter, obviously, were intended, among other things, for parades on Red Square. Even at the mock-up stage, the 4101 limousine acquired its own style, increasingly moving away from the 4102 sedans "Raia" and "Misha". But it never even reached the stage of a running prototype.




















The search models of the 70-80s allow us to appreciate the flight of imagination of the ZIL artists. Somewhere British motifs are visible, somewhere American, and somewhere there is a Soviet style.

Regarding how modern Russia treats the legacy of the legendary ZiL. After the demolition of the automobile plant in Moscow, the ZiL Museum in Sokolniki remained. It exhibits such rarities as the AMO F-15, unique equipment of the Special Design Bureau (SKB), the ZiL-118 Yunost minibus and other evidence of technological greatness. More precisely, they were exhibited. Since May 17, 2024, the museum has been closed, and part of its treasures have moved to the Leningrad Center for the History of Motor Transport.

What the Northern capital has to do with the historical legacy of the Moscow Likhachev Plant remains a mystery. Perhaps the Leningrad Institute of Radio Engineering created a modern information system for the stillborn ZIL-80 project in the late 4102s. The smart technology spoke to the driver in a female voice and could, for example, warn about an open door or trunk. Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev put an end to such a luxurious car, which, in fact, was the beginning of the degradation of the I. A. Likhachev Plant.
138 comments
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  1. +19
    4 February 2025 04: 50
    Thank you Evgeny, I will supplement the article with several photographs of cars from the motorcade of our top officials (Museum in Verkhnyaya Pyshma).
    1. +11
      4 February 2025 07: 23
      Always glad! Hands only now got around to this material. Photos from 2023 were in the archive
  2. +12
    4 February 2025 05: 20
    I always liked the design of ZIL limousines. Thanks for the article.
  3. +1
    4 February 2025 05: 22
    Automobile manufacturing is not our thing, unfortunately.... Many thanks to the author for the article. Very interesting.
    1. IVZ
      +19
      4 February 2025 06: 31
      Automobile manufacturing is not our thing, unfortunately...
      There is no need to repeat other people's stupidities. Automobile manufacturing is critically important for us both economically and militarily, and our "partners" understand this perfectly well. We just need to pay at least a little more attention to this industry than to the program of the flight to Mars or wherever we are headed.
      1. +3
        4 February 2025 08: 31
        IVZ, that's the thing, "like flights to Mars". And in the end, we were taught that "Volga" is the ultimate dream. And even then, for a few...
        1. +5
          4 February 2025 12: 50
          Volga GAZ 21 once won a prize at the exhibition in Paris. And ZIL 157 won a prize. And an analogue of the blue bird has not yet been built abroad.
          1. -1
            7 February 2025 02: 43
            Quote: ZAV69
            And an analogue of the blue bird has not yet been built overseas.

            What other Bluebird analogue hasn't been built? Ford Mainline 1952-54?
            1. +1
              7 February 2025 07: 50
              ZIL 69061. Is there an equivalent among the bourgeois?
              1. 0
                7 February 2025 23: 15
                Maybe ZIL 49061?
                Quote: ZAV69
                ZIL 69061. Is there an equivalent among the bourgeois?
              2. 0
                11 February 2025 16: 06
                Why did they need one like that?
                We had simple three-axle all-terrain vehicles for the population.
                Why do I need equipment that has no analogues if I can’t buy it?
                1. 0
                  11 February 2025 20: 48
                  Well, maybe the bourgeoisie didn't need it.
                  And regarding buying... There is a channel on YouTube, Custom Truck. So its owner bought a BAZ chassis a year ago, I think from the Strela complex, and more recently a ZIL 7972, though almost dead. And there is such a ZIL in the St. Petersburg office Spastrak in perfect condition
          2. Qas
            0
            12 February 2025 01: 15
            About Volga 21 and ZIL 157 - these are well-known historical facts.
            And the Blue Bird "hasn't been built abroad yet" maybe because no one there needs it? It's a very specific type of transport. Why do they need it?
      2. +4
        4 February 2025 13: 42
        No one argues that it is very important, but it requires investing money and effort. And the technical perfection of a limousine should be based on the technical level of the auto industry as a whole. And even now, in the story with AURUS, the idea with EMP was not brought to the level planned.
        The USSR began purchasing licenses for units, engines and car factories, but stopped halfway, and much went to waste during the collapse.

        The same VAZ, bought perfectly. And there needed to be 2-3-4 such factories
      3. +2
        4 February 2025 16: 21
        The Mars flight program was shut down in the early 70s, and the topic was never raised again. In vain, if the USSR had flown to Mars, it would have won the Cold War.
    2. +4
      4 February 2025 16: 22
      Automobile manufacturing is ours, but it is still prohibited by law. And the laws were written for us: How USAID helped us Nikolay Starikov There is a large section on the foundation's website: "USAID in Russia". Now we are talking about "past merits". There we read quite openly: "USAID-funded Rule of Law implementers helped draft the Russian Constitution, Part I of the Russian Civil Code, and the Russian Tax Code". "USAID financed compliance with the law in the work of implementers who participated in the development of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, Part I of the Civil Code of the Russian Federation, and the Tax Code of the Russian Federation". "American partners" helped us with all their might. In the name of democracy. And they don't even hide it.
      1. +1
        7 February 2025 02: 46
        Did the Americans prevent the Russians from making quality cars?? By funding science in the 90s, without which all the scientists would have run away, or stopped doing science, and would have gone to sell jeans at the flea market.
        1. +1
          7 February 2025 03: 01
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          The fact that science was financed in the 90s

          Who financed it? And most importantly, whose science?
          1. 0
            7 February 2025 23: 18
            I will tell you an incredible fact - Soros, or more precisely the Soros Foundation. Including financed the introduction of the Internet in the Russian Federation.
            1. +1
              8 February 2025 01: 32
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              Soros, or more precisely the Soros Foundation. Including financing the introduction of the Internet in the Russian Federation.

              Well, if he did finance it, it was for the sole purpose of spreading his propaganda in Russia.
      2. Qas
        0
        12 February 2025 01: 19
        Is that where it is?
        Why not remember then how much the Americans helped us in building our state and constructing new factories.
        1. 0
          13 February 2025 11: 41
          Quote: Qas
          Why not remember then how much the Americans helped us in building our state and constructing new factories.

          We can also recall the American assistance in building factories. And at the same time the economic conditions in which this assistance was provided. If you have forgotten, then I will remind you: the US recognition of the USSR occurred in the early 30s. And the construction of factories began at about the same time. And the GREAT DEPRESSION in the USA was at the same time. So it was not out of the kindness of their hearts that the Americans built factories for us, but first of all taking care of THEIR interests - they were pressed hard, to put it simply. By US assistance in building our state, are you talking about the 90s?
  4. 0
    4 February 2025 05: 34
    Yeltsin switched from ZIL to Mercedes-Benz Pullman Guard
    Pasha-Mercedes also switched to Mercedes at one time. And once he was a good and respected general
    1. +1
      4 February 2025 16: 27
      Gorbachev drove a Rolls Royce in a bag ad! That's shameful.
  5. 9PA
    +5
    4 February 2025 05: 38
    What is dead cannot die
  6. 0
    4 February 2025 05: 53
    EKH numbers are of course a mockery of the people.
    1. -2
      4 February 2025 12: 26
      Why is it a mockery? What is the problem?
      1. +1
        4 February 2025 18: 37
        I Ride As I Want
        And this is on a government car.
        1. -2
          4 February 2025 20: 06
          Quote: urik62
          I Ride As I Want
          And this is on a government car.

          From which side?
          Gelik EKH from the Presidential security.
          1. +1
            7 February 2025 03: 04
            Quote: Kotofeich
            Gelik EKH

            Yeltsin is finished, the last letter of the rules does not allow to decipher. laughing
            1. 0
              10 February 2025 08: 41
              "I DON'T CARE." THE YELTSIN CENTER BRANCH IN MOSCOW WAS OPENED BY MY GRANDDAUGHTER, AN AUSTRIAN CITIZEN. HOW LONG WILL IT CONTINUE?

              Do you like the Yeltsin Center? I know the answer very well, but for ordinary people, apparently, one is not enough. That is why they recently opened a branch in Moscow! Well, so that as many people as possible would know how well and happily we lived in the 1990s. Touched, so to speak, the beautiful.

              ▶️Austrian citizen Maria Yumasheva.
              1. 0
                10 February 2025 14: 36
                Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
                However, for the common people, apparently, one is not enough.

                The common people never ask, have never asked, and are unlikely to ever ask.
        2. -1
          5 February 2025 07: 44
          Yes, you can make any combination of words from letters. What's the mockery????
          1. -2
            5 February 2025 11: 03
            Well, they won't go with LOH, although there is no L in the numbers, but I think it's clear, I Drive As I Want and we don't give a damn about any riffraff under our feet, we are from the president's garage
          2. 0
            5 February 2025 13: 02
            To understand this, you need to travel around Moscow in those days.
        3. Qas
          0
          12 February 2025 01: 22
          This decoding exists only in your head. About "mockery of the people" - the people don't even know about it, there are funnier and more amusing phrases.
          1. 0
            12 February 2025 06: 08
            Look after your head first
    2. 0
      4 February 2025 20: 10
      Do you like the numbers THIEF or HAM more?
      1. +1
        4 February 2025 21: 12
        Who likes them? Me? From what side?
        1. 0
          4 February 2025 21: 26
          Quote: urik62
          Who likes them? Me? From what side?

          What does the EKH have to do with the government?
          1. 0
            4 February 2025 22: 09
            Well, security, anyway, it's not a social taxi
  7. +11
    4 February 2025 05: 54
    Yes, such a plant was ruined by "reformers" and "effective managers"! And "Moskvich" too. But "Moskvich" was run by Armenians, so it had no chance. Scoundrels of all stripes and shades!
    1. +11
      4 February 2025 06: 49
      such a plant was ruined by "reformers" and "effective managers"

      The question of the destruction of the ZiL plant is a question for our guarantor, who has no analogues in the universe, and his accomplices, the thieving oligarchs.
      I will never believe that the guarantor did not know about the closure of the ZiL plant. Especially since Sobyanin was already the mayor of Moscow. I am more than sure that such a tasty morsel as the territory of the ZiL plant could not have passed by Sobyanin. How much money all the participants got, one can only guess.
      For your information:
      The Likhachev Plant (abbreviated ZIL) was the first automobile manufacturing enterprise in the Russian Empire and the USSR, founded as the "Partnership on Shares of the Automobile Moscow Society" (abbreviated AMO) in 1916 and named after Ivan Alekseevich Likhachev in 1956. In 2013, the company ceased assembling cars. In 2020, ZIL as an automobile manufacturing enterprise was completely liquidated, the territory was transferred for development, but the company itself as a legal entity continues to operate and generate profit; re-registered with the previous name and authorized capital, with the main activity of "real estate management".
      1. +6
        4 February 2025 09: 04
        ZIL was unlucky - it occupied a huge chunk of expensive land inside the Moscow Ring Road. Well, it’s not right that jobs for some proletarians are located where there could be elite housing, or expensive shopping centers, or prestigious offices. If the plant were on the outskirts, like KamAZ, it might have survived.
      2. -1
        4 February 2025 12: 54
        Actually, ZIL has been dead for a long time, long before 2013. Well, the fact that "the cat abandoned her kittens, it's Putin's fault" is already by default on this forum...
    2. 0
      4 February 2025 16: 23
      Once upon a time, the 2141 was considered the most prestigious model, when they appeared, it was simply space. More money should have been invested in Moskvich. AvtoVAZ ruined everything.
      1. 0
        5 February 2025 10: 34
        Quote: BAT-MENT
        At one time, the 2141 was considered the most prestigious model; when they appeared, it was simply out of this world.

        He-he-he... I remember how the chisel owners scratched their heads after lifting the hood of 2141 - what, it was impossible to turn the engine?
        1. 0
          5 February 2025 12: 08
          But the Moskvich had a huge interior, a great stove, and it appeared before the Nine!
          The trunk was large and the design was cosmic compared to the Zhiguli.
          1. 0
            10 February 2025 08: 44
            And it was quite similar to the French SIMCA
  8. +7
    4 February 2025 06: 46
    Unfortunately, ZIL itself has already become part of history, and the ruins of which are now easily penetrated by piles of future high-rise buildings...
  9. Des
    +5
    4 February 2025 07: 17
    A normal article for VO. Bravo. It was interesting.
    The auto industry (any) is an amazing pain for the Russian Empire, the USSR, and the Russian Federation.
    As in the joke - "such is the place")). Unfortunately.
    Other countries were able to learn to create their own cars practically "from scratch" - Japan, South Korea, China...
    Of course, based on the predecessors, but then).
    1. 0
      4 February 2025 16: 24
      The KIA company started with the production of those Zhiguli under license. Where is KIA now and where is AvtoVAZ?
      1. 0
        4 February 2025 19: 59
        False. KIA started its automotive activities by building cheap Japanese motorcycles under license (before that, it produced bicycles, steel components, etc.). In the 1970s, it made a cheap car based on a Mazda model, then it produced Fiat 132s under license (these were not Zighulis), followed by more versions of Mazda cars, until it went bankrupt and was bought by Hyundai. However, it never produced any Russian cars.
    2. 0
      4 February 2025 16: 27
      It is worth lifting the ban on production, and in 10-15 years we will be able to compete with the Japanese, even with the Chinese.
      1. 0
        4 February 2025 20: 08
        That's interesting. How do you plan to catch up with Toyota or Honda in the next 10-15 years, considering that your automotive industry has stalled with the Buchanka and the assembly of the Lada Largus, which is a variation of the first-generation Dacia Logan, a car that started production over 20 years ago (and is based on the 1998 Renault Thalia, or Clio II), as the cheapest car in Europe, meant for the truly poor and less demanding?
  10. +9
    4 February 2025 07: 22
    Now the huge territory of the plant is built up so densely that it is not clear what begins where, and they continue to build and dig. A catastrophic human anthill has grown, with houses and office buildings. How much profit has this land brought to developers and everyone else. Why do we need factories, technology, and cars? There is China, it will help us, but people want to live in Moscow, which has doubled in size for this and is already aiming at parks.
    1. +9
      4 February 2025 07: 50
      How many arrived this land brought to developers and everyone else.

      very tolerantly said - this is not profit - this is what was stolen - from us...
  11. +2
    4 February 2025 07: 27
    obsolete not only technically, but also morally.

    What is the difference between technical obsolescence and moral obsolescence?
    1. Alf
      +1
      4 February 2025 19: 52
      Quote: Grossvater
      What is the difference between technical obsolescence and moral obsolescence?

      Technical - this is when a new model appears that is faster, more reliable, more convenient, etc.
      Moral is when the new model is not technically superior to the old one, but it is new. Like Moskvich-412 and Moskvich-2140.
  12. +7
    4 February 2025 07: 48
    Despite the fact that archaic architecture of the limousine - frame body construction и 3-speed automatic transmission

    ??
    and what is archaic?
    The frame has long been considered a guarantee of passenger safety...
    look how long the frame ford was produced for the police, why? - these are the requirements for the safety of the police
    and what a suspension on ZIL - just a fairy tale!
    and not a word about her...
    3-speed automatic transmission? - so what size engine was there?
    when I bought a golf with a 2,8 engine (VR6), I could drive the whole day in one gear without changing gears...
    overall the article is superficial...
    There is not a single word in the article about the work of the closed workshop at ZiL...
    1. +1
      4 February 2025 07: 57
      Quote: Dedok
      There is not a single word in the article about the work of the closed workshop at ZiL...
      What is a closed workshop? Military?
      1. +1
        4 February 2025 07: 58
        What is a closed shop?

        This is exactly what the author was trying to write about...
        There were two closed workshops:
        1. Government vehicles
        2. Refrigerators
        1. +1
          4 February 2025 08: 00
          Quote: Dedok
          1. Government vehicles
          2. Refrigerators
          1. ZiL also produced equipment for the army. Were these workshops open?
          2. Why are the refrigerators a closed workshop?
          1. +5
            4 February 2025 08: 13
            Why are the refrigerators a closed workshop?

            they were allowed in there with a "shop pass", but the rest of the ZiL workers were denied entry
            1. 0
              4 February 2025 20: 16
              Quote: Dedok
              they were allowed in there with a "shop pass", but the rest of the ZiL workers were denied entry

              If I'm not mistaken, it was called the experimental building.
          2. 0
            4 February 2025 20: 19
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            ZiL also produced equipment for the army. Were these workshops open?

            At least the engines for the army ZILs were assembled on the same conveyor as all the others, only their markings were different.
      2. +2
        4 February 2025 08: 14
        Military?

        How is ZIL-131 different from ZIL-130?
        nothing... we were going to get together, military acceptance for such machines was there (as far as I remember)
        1. +2
          4 February 2025 10: 39
          Quote: Dedok
          and how is ZIL-131 different from ZIL-130?Nothing...
          1. 0
            4 February 2025 10: 48
            for the purposes of organizing the assembly process on the conveyor - nothing
            1. 0
              4 February 2025 20: 22
              Quote: Dedok
              for the purposes of organizing the assembly process on the conveyor - nothing

              I think the army engines had the letter "A"
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. 0
        4 February 2025 16: 30
        No, they didn't. They assembled limousines there. I saw how they polished the hubcaps.
      4. Alf
        0
        4 February 2025 19: 52
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Quote: Dedok
        There is not a single word in the article about the work of the closed workshop at ZiL...
        What is a closed workshop? Military?

        Release of member carriers.
        1. 0
          4 February 2025 20: 07
          Quote: Alf
          Issue of member carriers
          Appreciated! wink wink
          1. Alf
            0
            4 February 2025 20: 08
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            Quote: Alf
            Issue of member carriers
            Appreciated! wink wink

            hi
    2. -1
      4 February 2025 20: 15
      1. Frame was a guarantee of passenger safety but 40 years ago. Modern western cars are far more safe than any US made, and they don't use frames. Frames makes car heavier, more expensive to built, higher.
      2. With 6 or 7 speeds or even more you can have better performances, lower fuel consumption, cleaner exhaust fumes and better acoustic comfort.
      3/ US cars... Gues why no one sane wants to buy them in Europe. They are just pathetic.
  13. +5
    4 February 2025 07: 55
    The photo shows the forms that the craftsmen used to tap out the steel body panels. All the flaws were generously masked with tin.

    Go to any Wurth store and buy some solder to fill your car body: this is normal practice!
    Moreover, in those days, ZIL body parts were covered with solder to increase corrosion resistance...
    Well, you have to be in the subject you're writing about: and exhibitions... that's a little different
  14. +2
    4 February 2025 07: 57
    traction lithium-ion battery - Enertech from South Korea, etc. To be fair, the latter company was absorbed by the Rosatom corporation back in 2023.

    Why write like this?
    Is the fate of Gazprom's subsidiaries incomprehensible to us?
  15. BAI
    +1
    4 February 2025 08: 11
    1.
    , universal for special communications

    Once, in the late 70s, I saw Brezhnev’s motorcade on the road through the forest to the hunting lodge:
    1st car - a police yellow and blue Mercedes - late 70s! Next - 2 police Volgas (traffic police or whoever, I don't know), a black Volga, 2 ZIL 114, a ZIL station wagon (here's the one - unusually thick roof - equipment was probably placed in the roof), 2 Chaikas, 3-4 black Volgas (GAZ 24), and lastly - 2-3 police (traffic police Volgas).
    Lenya deigned to go hunting. And all this was accompanied by sirens and shouts into the loudspeaker - Citizens, do not go out on the road.
    1. +5
      4 February 2025 08: 27
      Once, in the late 70s, I saw Brezhnev's motorcade

      And in the early 80s I saw how Brezhnev's motorcade was racing along the mountain road between Alushta and Gurzuf to Artek and was impressed by the ZILs changing lanes at high speed, how they played checkers...it was impossible to understand which ZIL Brezhnev was in.
      1. +2
        4 February 2025 08: 45
        I was impressed by the ZILs changing lanes at high speed, like playing checkers

        so this just shows what kind of suspension it had...
        She allowed almost everything!
        1. +1
          4 February 2025 20: 40
          Quote: Dedok
          She allowed almost everything!

          Yes. I was amazed when the huge ZIL with a powerful roar burst out of the gates on the Old Square, picked up speed, almost without tilting or braking, turned onto Kuibyshev Street and rushed towards the Kremlin. good
      2. -3
        4 February 2025 09: 49
        Quote: Konnick
        how they played checkers...it was impossible to understand what kind of ZIL Brezhnev was in.

        These are already "thimbles", not checkers).
    2. Alf
      -1
      4 February 2025 20: 00
      Quote: BAI
      ZIL is a station wagon (here's what I mean - it has an unusually thick roof - it looks like the equipment was placed in the roof),

      Ambulance for the Secretary General.
    3. 0
      4 February 2025 20: 34
      Quote: BAI
      ZIL - station wagon

      In general, the ZIL station wagon was a hearse. I saw Brezhnev's motorcade many times on Kalininsky Prospekt or Rublevka. They flew like crazy. I don't remember a station wagon in the motorcade, but there was a "hedgehog", a special communications vehicle with eight antennas.
  16. -8
    4 February 2025 08: 19
    The only cars that our auto industry has produced that are outwardly attractive are the Pobeda, the 21st Volga, the Chaika, and maybe the Niva. The rest are either some kind of miscarriages, or so secondary that they make your eyes bleed.
    1. +3
      4 February 2025 10: 48
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The rest are either miscarriages of some kind, or so secondary that they cause bleeding from the eyes.

      So what about everything else?
      1. +1
        4 February 2025 13: 26
        Quote: Dym71
        So what about everything else?

        How could I forget about "Constipation"?! wassat
    2. +1
      4 February 2025 16: 29
      2108 was actually designed by Porsche, at that time it was quite good!
      1. 0
        4 February 2025 20: 21
        Only the engines were built with the help of Porsche. The rest was not. Were the cars good? I remember they were sold in Poland and were cheap, so quite a few of them were on the road. However, they were unreliable and made from poor materials. It was common in Poland for a Lada, brought from the factory in Russia, to be disassembled by the dealer, with mechanics fixing certain things (mainly the electrical system, installing different brake pads and discs, different clutch plates), reassembling the car, and only then was it sold. The sales of the Samara in Poland dropped when the Skoda Favorit appeared.
      2. 0
        5 February 2025 03: 04
        Quote: BAT-MENT
        2108 was actually designed by Porsche, at that time it was quite good!

        That's why the eight is nicknamed "Chisel"? Without touching on the inside - a mediocre representative of the 80s.
      3. 0
        5 February 2025 09: 17
        2108 actually the design was done by Porsche

        They worked on the engine and gearbox: so that the car would "drive" and not "guzzle" fuel - that's why in the first years of sales in Europe - everyone noted both the dynamics and fuel efficiency
    3. Alf
      +2
      4 February 2025 20: 01
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The only cars that our auto industry has produced that are outwardly attractive are the Pobeda, the 21st Volga, the Chaika, and maybe the Niva. The rest are either some kind of miscarriages, or so secondary that they make your eyes bleed.

      And the 24th?
      1. 0
        5 February 2025 03: 05
        Quote: Alf
        And the 24th?

        The 21st is a cut above the 24th, depending on the time, of course.
        1. Alf
          0
          5 February 2025 19: 52
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: Alf
          And the 24th?

          The 21st is a cut above the 24th, depending on the time, of course.

          So is it a miscarriage or a secondary pregnancy?
          1. 0
            6 February 2025 03: 14
            Quote: Alf

            So is it a miscarriage or a secondary pregnancy?

            Well, okay, GAZ-24 is a pretty successful compilation of various design solutions.
            1. Alf
              0
              6 February 2025 19: 00
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Quote: Alf

              So is it a miscarriage or a secondary pregnancy?

              Well, okay, GAZ-24 is a pretty successful compilation of various design solutions.

              The only thing the Volga and Falcon have in common is the radiator grille.
              1. 0
                7 February 2025 03: 33
                Quote: Alf
                The only thing the Volga and Falcon have in common is the radiator grille.

                In many ways, the radiator grille and headlights set the appearance of the car. In addition, the rib along the entire body and the door handles, although this is closer to BMW and Audi, as are the wheel arches. No, the 24 is an example of a successful compilation, relatively successful.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  7 February 2025 19: 00
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  Quote: Alf
                  The only thing the Volga and Falcon have in common is the radiator grille.

                  In many ways, the radiator grille and headlights set the appearance of the car. In addition, the rib along the entire body and the door handles, although this is closer to BMW and Audi, as are the wheel arches. No, the 24 is an example of a successful compilation, relatively successful.

                  That is, if it's done this way on the BMW, then it's a successful design move, but if it's done on the Volga, then it's copying. Then is the Falcon also a compilation? Or is it "something different"?
  17. +3
    4 February 2025 08: 23
    Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev put an end to such a luxurious automobile, which, in fact, began the degradation of the I. A. Likhachev Plant.

    The degradation began earlier, when the young and promising were invited to KAMAZ, many young and not so young specialists moved to Naberezhnye Chelny. Now the opposite exodus, though not specialists, but managers from Tatarstan to NAMI, which made Aurus and is now establishing their own rules with provincial arrogance and Tatar originality, although just as the ZIL designers designed KAMAZ, the locals have practically not invented anything. And the vaunted KAMAZ-Master has much fewer domestic components than Aurus.
    1. +1
      4 February 2025 16: 36
      Somewhere around 1972, at the ZiL checkpoint, I saw a ZiL with the front end of a KamAZ (there was nothing about KamAZ back then).
  18. +6
    4 February 2025 08: 35
    The Limousines We Lost
    They lost a whole country and with it a bunch of everything. Now it's like walking to the moon to reach the technological level of the USSR, and even further to "technological sovereignty", despite Aurus. It's a rare thing.
  19. +3
    4 February 2025 09: 08
    Aurus, they write, is also in trouble.
    They make 100+ a year in total. Some of the founders came from it.
    The car costs almost 40 million.
    The boyars have long forgotten about the restriction that officials cannot buy very expensive cars.
    1. 0
      4 February 2025 20: 44
      Quote: Max1995
      that officials should not buy cars that are too expensive.

      But do officials buy them?
      1. +1
        5 February 2025 08: 51
        The name doesn't change the essence: lease, buy on a budget, receive as a gift, etc.
        Navalny once advocated that the cost of an official's car could be up to one and a half million.
        Duma: up to 3-6 million, I think.
        But the first one is dead. Duma is "his own"
        According to the news, some official's Airus is 37 million.

        Life is a success.
        1. 0
          5 February 2025 11: 05
          Quote: Max1995
          The name doesn't change the essence: lease, buy on a budget, receive as a gift, etc.

          Is changing.
          1. Service under an agreement between legal entities.
          Quote: Max1995
          Duma: up to 3-6 million, I think.
          But the first one is dead. Duma is "his own"

          2. There are no officials in the Duma.
          3. Aurus is a rare machine, and there are 600 thousand officials at the federal level alone.

          Quote: Max1995
          According to the news, some official's Airus is 37 million.

          Listen to less science fiction.
          1. 0
            5 February 2025 12: 28
            1) In a narrow sense - it changes. In a broad sense, IMHO, no.
            2) Off topic. She made the decision to limit the cost.
            3) Off topic. Naturally, not all. Mentioned, from memory, some deputy by nature.

            "Buy Aurus for 27 rubles in Moscow - more than 000..." - from ads
            Reality is like that
    2. WFP
      +1
      5 February 2025 23: 39
      AURUS Komendant costs 47 million, and AURUS Senat - 27. Compared to Rolls-Royce Cullinan for 59 million, it doesn’t look very expensive.
      1. 0
        6 February 2025 10: 08
        Yeah, just like the joke says - "pearls are small"
        But if we remember that the Duma once decreed that for officials cars should not cost more than 3 or 6 million rubles...
        And the disappeared N offered 1,5 million (at that time)
  20. 0
    4 February 2025 09: 10
    Well, the market "decided". Or are you against the market, Author? Yes
    1. +2
      4 February 2025 16: 37
      The joke is that there was no market in Russia, just as there was no capitalism.
      1. 0
        5 February 2025 08: 59
        But that's a completely different question. Yes
  21. +6
    4 February 2025 09: 40
    Thanks to the author for an interesting material.
    I only have questions about Aurus - it's not clear what's Russian about it? Assembly?
    What NAMI is saying about the "domestic" engine is crap.
    I once saw a video of how NAMI casts the balance beam of the rear suspension of the Aurus (6 tons) from aluminum!!!! And immediately everything became clear about its domesticity.
  22. +2
    4 February 2025 09: 42
    Quote: Konnick
    And the vaunted KamAZ-Master has far fewer domestic components than Aurus.

    and what is domestic in Aurus? List it?
    1. +1
      4 February 2025 20: 49
      Quote: Dozorny_ severa
      and what is domestic in Aurus? List it?

      I had a chance to exchange a few words with the driver of the Aurus. I asked: "So, how is the car? How is the AKM???"
      "It breaks, but it runs"
      Well, if it breaks, then it's definitely ours. laughing
  23. 0
    4 February 2025 09: 46
    Quote: Des
    The auto industry (any) is an amazing pain for the Russian Empire, the USSR, and the Russian Federation.

    Your pain, citizen, is known where. There is no need to equate the USSR and the Russian Federation, the Republic of Ingushetia.
    Share what high-tech and advanced things you produce?
    1. 0
      4 February 2025 16: 40
      Ugh, how strict you are! And to determine what is allowed to be produced in Russia and what is prohibited. I'll give you a little hint - mechanical engineering is prohibited by law and USAID was banned.
      1. Alf
        +1
        4 February 2025 20: 03
        Quote: Sergey_O
        mechanical engineering is prohibited by law

        Isn't it possible to reconsider the ban?
  24. -4
    4 February 2025 10: 56
    How annoying these sighs that "our grandfathers could do it better..." are. No one is embarrassed by the fact that all the car factories or models were bought in Europe. The same ZIL started with a licensed Fiat, which received money for each car built at AMO sold. It is absolutely necessary to mention that today we are complete "s...t" in comparison with those who built the immortal loaf, and in the said executive class, as of the late 80s, we are firmly stuck in a 1967 car... Aren't you tired of it? I would have already moved away from the evaluative view of my childhood. There was something warm and kind in those years, and I have achieved something worthy today. Why can't you accept yourself today? Why do you have to throw your head in the ashes?
    ,
    1. +1
      4 February 2025 15: 01
      The same ZIL started with a licensed Fiat,

      as far as I remember, ZiL started with the "American father" - equipment, machines were brought for a specific model... and Fiats, Renault, etc. - this was right after the revolution
      By the way, the film "The Director" (about Likhachev) reflects the agony of choice of that time
      1. 0
        4 February 2025 17: 32
        Quote: Dedok
        As far as I remember, ZIL started with the "American father"

        You remember incorrectly. The first model was AMO-F-15. F in this case indicates the ancestor of FIAT-15.
        1. 0
          4 February 2025 17: 42
          The first model was AMO-F-15. F in this case refers to the ancestor of FIAT-15.

          so you are talking about AMO...
          and ZiL (ZiS) - it was started, launched by Likhachev, that's why we remember his name, for trucks, buses and government vehicles...
          ZIL is a complete set of equipment from the USA for the production of an American model (but with a Soviet face, if you can say so)...
          and AMO is a legacy of tsarist Russia
          1. +1
            4 February 2025 18: 34
            Quote: Dedok
            and ZiL (ZiS) - it was started, launched by Likhachev

            Well, in any case, ZIS did not appear out of nowhere. Although, of course, the reconstruction was such that, figuratively speaking, a coat was sewn onto the Ryabushinsky brothers' button. request
    2. +1
      4 February 2025 16: 22
      As far as I know, ZIL is Ford, and the Italians are AvtoVAZ. The entire factories were bought, but even the outwardly similar cars were changed almost from the very beginning, the further they went, the less similar they were to the original. This is the only way to develop a design school.
      1. -1
        4 February 2025 17: 34
        Quote: Demon_is_ada
        As far as I know, ZIL is Ford, and the Italians are AvtoVAZ.

        No. Ford is NAZ, which became GAZ after the city was renamed. And ZIL is the former AMO, originally built for the assembly of the FIAT-15 truck.
        1. +1
          5 February 2025 10: 46
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          And ZIL is a former AMO, originally built for the assembly of the FIAT-15 truck.

          Initially, the Ryabushinsky brothers' plant was built not for assembly, but for the production of the domestic version of the Fiat. But since construction began only in 1916, they were only able to bring it to screwdriver production, that is, assembly.
          Problems with the Empire's own production of cars began already at the stage of its own steel.
          The obvious difficulty was that this production would require "high grades of steel, castings and forgings", bearings and rubber tires with rims. Meanwhile, "high special grades of steel" "are not yet manufactured in Russia", only in the future "it is intended... to raise the question of expanding, with government support, the Nevsky Shipbuilding and Mechanical Plant" specifically for the production of suitable steel, forgings, castings and bearings.
          © Polikarpov V. V. Russian military-industrial policy, 1914-1917: state tasks and private interests.
  25. BAI
    +2
    4 February 2025 11: 09
    The author forgot one more area of ​​application for government limousines.
    ZILs - light gray convertibles (on which parades were held) at the plant, after the removal of the rear back and trunk lid, were used as pickups for transporting small loads around the plant territory
    1. +2
      4 February 2025 14: 57
      ZILs - light gray convertibles (on which parades were held) at the plant, after the removal of the rear back and trunk lid, were used as pickups for transporting small loads around the plant territory

      I saw internal farm vehicles on the chassis of these government ones... but with cabins either from 130 or 131 - ZiL
      1. 0
        4 February 2025 20: 51
        Quote: Dedok
        I saw internal machinery on the chassis of these government vehicles

        When? drinks
        1. +1
          5 February 2025 07: 22
          When?

          1982, 1983, 1984
          1. 0
            5 February 2025 09: 10
            I also saw this car in 79-80, driving around the area.
  26. +2
    4 February 2025 12: 03
    ZIL always looked at passenger cars as Myasishchev's aircraft. A different appearance, design features, its own technologies, its own path.
  27. 0
    4 February 2025 16: 18
    I was in the workshop where they made disks.
  28. +1
    4 February 2025 19: 53
    An exceptionally wonderful article! Thanks to the author! I want to add that in pre-revolutionary tsarist Russia it was the same... Let's remember what cars the rich drove! "Ford", "Mercedes-Benz", "Fiat", "Renault", "Peugeot".
    And where are the Russian companies that produce cars completely (from raw materials to finished products)? They don’t exist.
    In 1908, an automobile department was created in Riga. Director - Ivan Aleksandrovich Fryazinovsky.
    The 26-year-old Julien Potterat, who had previously worked for the Belgian company Fondu, was invited to the position of chief designer (since the Tsarist Empire had no such people). Julien Potterat (1882-1965) was a Swiss designer and experimenter in the field of automobile manufacturing who worked in Russia. Julien Potterat, who worked for a Belgian automobile concern and had established himself as an engineer with a progressive scientific and technical outlook, was invited to Riga by representatives of the Russo-Balt plant at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. The young specialist was involved in the design of the first prefabricated Russian automobile.
    Fondue cars became the prototype for the first Russo-Balts.
    Actually, from the very beginning, the cars were produced under the name “Russo-Baltic”.
    The name Russo-Balt was fixed due to the abbreviation of the name in French - Russo-Baltique (Russo-Baltic).
    At the end of 1910, the RBVZ joint-stock company acquired the Frese and K Carriage Factory, a pioneering Russian automobile manufacturer.
    The enterprise's workshops were located in St. Petersburg at 10 Ertelev Lane (now Chekhov Street). They were then transformed into a service station for RBVZ vehicles.
    To produce the so-called “truly Russian” Russo-Balt automobile, a shitload of components were brought in from abroad.
    That is, special steel, ball bearings, spark plugs, pumps, tires and tubes, carburetors, magnetos, wheels, oilers, instruments, shafts, screws, bolts, cables.
    It was only at the end of 1914 that the plant mastered the art of manufacturing radiators, and then bevel gears.
    What kind of engines did tsarist Russia make?
    Until 1914, they were not produced in the country at all, and only just before the war did the tsarist regime buy licenses from France to produce low-power rotary engines "Gnome" with 50 and 80 "horses".
    Moreover, the production of engines was carried out at the Moscow plant of the French company “Gnome and Ron” from parts that came from France.
    And with an engineering staff that was entirely French. In essence, it was a purely colonial screwdriver production. Only from the beginning of 1916 did they also start making Gnome-Monosupap and Rhone engines with a capacity of 100-110 horsepower (40 engines per month) - while in the West, thousands of engines were being produced with 200-360 horsepower!
    That is, the complete backwardness and complete technological dependence of Tsarist Russia on the West is obvious. The first truly Russian engine (166-horsepower RBZ-6, copied from the German "Argus") began to be made at the Russo-Baltic Wagon Plant only at the end of 1916, but they never achieved production volumes of more than ten units per month.
    And at the same time, a significant part of the components had to be brought from abroad: they did not have them at home.
    For example, Russia did not make ball bearings: only Stalin could solve this problem.
  29. 0
    4 February 2025 23: 20
    "Raya" and "Misha"... Cool.
    And now there is the Chinese business-class electric van VOYAH.
    Guess what our drivers call him, people with a sense of humor too.
    That's right, "Vovan".
  30. +1
    5 February 2025 19: 05
    "sedans 4102 "Raya" and "Misha""
    just not Misha and Raya, but Mishka and Rayka. That's what they were called then
  31. +1
    6 February 2025 10: 39
    ZIL stopped producing cars in 2016. By 2021, the plant was completely liquidated, the territory was built up with residential buildings and shopping centers. Note that this was done not in the notorious nineties, but under Putin. You can also look up information on many other plants. It was Putin who carried out the deindustrialization of the country
    1. 0
      9 February 2025 22: 32
      It was Putin who carried out the deindustrialization of the country

      Yes, the cleanup was already carried out in the recent past.
  32. 0
    9 February 2025 22: 31
    I need to go to Mishka's grave and throw him 30 pieces of silver.