Soviet machine gun in a Finnish pillbox, or "A friend among strangers, a stranger among friends"

42
Soviet machine gun in a Finnish pillbox, or "A friend among strangers, a stranger among friends"

В previous article we took a brief look at the machine gun armament of the pillboxes historical retrospective. And now some follow-up material for readers already immersed in the topic.

Archive photo


In the Finnish archive of photo documents, well-known to historians, fans of military history, historical reconstruction and search engines, there are many photographs of the Soviet heavy machine gun DS-39. The same, model 1939, for the 7,62x54R cartridge, with air cooling, which is known as the brainchild of the weapons designer Degtyarev, designed to replace the morally obsolete machine gun of the Maxim system with water cooling.




DS-39

The machine gun did not gain fame among the troops, despite the fact that it was lighter, less bulky compared to water-cooled machine guns and had the ability to change the barrel. First of all, due to design flaws that led to the rupture of the cartridges when removing them from the barrel, as well as the inertial dismantling of the cartridge with a heavy bullet (including because Degtyarev was forced, at the request of the military, not to abandon the fabric cartridge belt used for firing from the Maxim machine gun) against the background of the ban "on the use of cartridges with a brass case (with a light and heavy bullet)" (quote from the Service Manual of the heavy machine gun model 1939). We will not describe the machine gun in more detail, fortunately, there is an excellent article.

Frankly speaking, there are very few Soviet photographs with DS-39 machine guns, and they relate primarily to the initial period of the war, but history has preserved for us such an interesting (from the point of view of the use of metal tape) photo of the crew of soldiers R. Tyulpanov and N. Sergeev on the Kalinin Front in 1942.


And then its production was curtailed in favor of the familiar "Maxim", and the machine guns produced were either lost forever or became enemy trophies. In total, more than 10 thousand machine guns of this type were produced, about 200 of which fell into the hands of the Finns both during the battles of the Winter War and at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.

Of course, the Finns quickly figured out the advantages and disadvantages of the DS-39, moreover, Aimo Lahti had a hand in this as the “gunsmith of all Finland”, having developed and implemented the technology of converting the DS-39 to use the Finnish metal machine gun belt.


The photo does not show Aimo Lahti, but an ordinary Finnish infantryman.

As thrifty owners of trophies, the Finns used the DS-39 in the infantry version on a tripod mount to arm their troops, both in the version modified by their own gunsmiths and in the original version, therefore, having seen many years ago in the Finnish archive of photo documents photographs of our DS-39 in some kind of ball mount, clearly not for installation in armored vehicles (considering our own Finnish and acquired as trophies of all types with known characteristics and weapons), we became interested in its purpose.





Over time, we even managed to find a drawing.


At that time, all options were considered, including installation on an armored train, but it turned out that the Finns preferred to arm them with water-cooled machine guns and 40-mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns.


The option of installing it on warships was also eliminated.

So where was this method of mounting a machine gun used? Remembering the methods of mounting air-cooled machine guns in European and our pillboxes, which we mentioned in the article "Machine-gun armament of the pillbox", we assumed that this was some kind of Finnish fortification structure, fortunately the Finns wrote something like that on their own and international historical forums, but even here everything is not simple.

Firstly, 99% of the structures, even if they are relatively intact now, were disarmed during the war, and in the years after it were dismantled, or even simply cut up for scrap metal. This means that it is difficult to find out what everything looked like.

Secondly, in our and even Finnish museums there are exhibits with machine guns in pillboxes, these are reinforced concrete pillboxes with a rectangular embrasure, but these machine guns are water-cooled, our "Maxims" or Finnish M/32-33. The same applies to literary publications.

Here is a "Finn" from a pillbox on the Salpa Line in Finland, which has been converted into an open-air museum.


But the exhibition of our Karelian Front Museum in Belomorsk is similar, isn’t it (here the authors will be a little proud, since they have a slight connection to it)?


And this is what it looked like during the war.


It's funny, but even the Finns did not preserve a firing point in which an air-cooled machine gun would be installed using a design like the one in the archive photo, although there are written references to this.

The second widespread type of Finnish pillboxes are pillboxes with armored caps, here is a drawing of one of them, the most widespread.


To put it in perspective, about 1 armored caps were produced, and even taking into account that 2 armored caps could be installed in one pillbox (or even 3, as in the famous pillbox of the Mannerheim Line Sj-4 "Million"), and not all of them were installed, the figure looks impressive (to date, our team has inspected about a hundred of these pillboxes, although not all of them have retained their armored caps). By the way, there were several types of armored caps, 3 observation, 4 machine gun, and one of the types had its own subspecies, however, this is a separate topic. So, the machine guns in these pillboxes were, of course, mostly with water-cooled barrels, it is not difficult to imagine their required number.


Soldiers examine a Finnish armored cap with a machine gun after storming Medvezhyegorsk. Our team was able to identify it by the ruins of the sanatorium building in the background of the photo and the chosen shooting angle. On the Finnish diagram, it was designated V42


V42 today. The armored cap was sent to be melted down

By the way, in the armored cap, especially the single one (and there were also double ones), there is damn little space even for one.


The machine gunner has to stand either on a closed hatch, or like that cow in the bomb bay, risking falling into it.

The photo with two Finns in an armored cap and a photographer who somehow crawled up to them, is quite well-known, but it has, as they say, a reverse, less well-known side. The armored cap depicted in it is installed above a fairly spacious platform.



Find


Time passed, the study of the ball mount for the DS-39 was not a priority for us, and the collection of material about it occurred only incidentally (for example, Vadim Antonov's article "Another Degtyarev" was published, in which he also mentioned the Finnish ball mount with the DS-39 as an option for arming a pillbox) with other, more relevant and substantive topics, until our team's friend Evgeny, an avid fan of Finnish long-term fortifications from St. Petersburg, in the summer of 2024 found a characteristic ball in the forest near the armored cap of one of the Finnish pillboxes on the left bank of the Svir River and sent us a photo of it. Considering the weight of the armor steel, he did not risk his health to carry it out of the forest on foot for several kilometers, so as a result of our trip, the ball was taken out of the forest and studied, and with it the search for information was intensified.



Comes in and comes out. Just like Eeyore. Only turned 180 degrees.

First of all, it is striking that the ball seems to be the same, but not the same. That is, if you look at the diameter and shape of the hole for the machine gun barrel in a modern photo and a Finnish archive photo, you can clearly see that it is clearly not for the DS-39 with its ribbing of the barrel. But the option with installing the DT-29 in it is quite suitable. Something similar was in tank towers, dismantled from tanks of obsolete types and installed in our Karelian fortified region. And indeed, at the exposition of the MPC "Sestroretsk Line" we see this version.


The difference is essentially only in the shapes of the sighting holes. But there are other similarities.

With the new data we tried to generalize the information, consulted with St. Petersburg specialists in fortification and the Karelian fortified region in particular, Oleg Bushko and Alexey Shvarev, collected and looked at all the photos we took in Finnish armored caps on the territory of the Leningrad region and Karelia, and put forward our version based on the fact that machine gun armored shutters PZ-39 and PZ-40 were installed in the pillboxes of the Karelian fortified region.


PZ-39


PZ-40

And both of these machine gun flaps are structurally very similar to what is shown in the Finnish archive photo of the DS-39.

Version


Initially, our PZ-39 and PZ-40 were developed (a more technologically advanced and simpler version than the PZ-39), apparently, the Finns saw the PZ-39 somewhere (for example, when they fought to break through the Karelian fortified area and even managed to capture several pillboxes) and developed their own shutter (it differs from ours primarily in the number and location of bolts), and they developed their shutter not only for the DT-29, but also for the DS-39. The Finns have a round clip mount for the machine gun shutter (in our terminology) with 8 bolts in the technological holes provided in the armored cap (photos of the holes in them in Karelia and the Leningrad region, including from the armored cap in which the ball was found, are identical).



And in the same holes, only in 4 of 8, a standard machine for the Finnish “Maxim” M/32-33 was installed (photo from the Leningrad region).


But the ball itself could have been either our trophy for the Finns or Finnish.
The above facts show that Soviet engineers did not eat their bread in vain, and the Finns were not the first to experiment with this method of installing air-cooled machine guns. Moreover, the PZ-39 and PZ-40 machine gun shutters were installed in Soviet pillboxes to defend entrances and fire at approaches from the rear, and the Finns mounted their installations directly in armored caps as the main armament. Naturally, such a installation could be mounted in the wall of a concrete or reinforced concrete pillbox, or even a bunker. As it is done, for example, at the exposition of the St. Petersburg museum "Pillbox of the defensive line "Izhora"" in a pillbox with a PZ-40 machine gun shutter.



Our version received its confirmation, albeit partial (the use of an air-cooled machine gun as the main armament of a Finnish pillbox with an armored cap), from the historian, writer and local historian Bair Klimentievich Irineev, who published a photo of an armored cap with a ball mount installed for an air-cooled machine gun.


Conclusions


The history of the use of the Degtyarev air-cooled DS-39 heavy machine gun in combat in the Red Army is relatively short, controversial, but, like any deadly weapon, weapon, it has its contribution to the Victory. The enemy, having received it at its disposal for one reason or another, found this weapon not only suitable for its own use in combat, but also carried out a partial modernization, and provided for a wider application, borrowing interesting engineering solutions, trying to provide the troops with the required number of machine guns. It seems to us that this kind of approach always makes sense - to learn from the enemy, borrowing from him the best and most promising, and if need forces you to use ambiguous solutions, then do it not by blind copying, but by modernization and refinement.

P.S. The authors express their deep gratitude to their colleagues from the Internet resources “Karelian Fortified Region”, “Environs of Petersburg”, MPC “Sestroretsk Line”, the museum “DOT of the Defensive Line “Izhora” and “Military Album” for information and photographs.
42 comments
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  1. +3
    2 February 2025 05: 37
    In the photo there is a blue pump with a handle. Is this for supplying water to cool the barrel?
    1. +3
      2 February 2025 05: 46
      If it's blue, then it's for feeding, if it's red, then it's for pumping out ))) sad
      1. +3
        2 February 2025 05: 48
        Quote: mark1
        If blue, then for feeding, if red - for pumping
        It looks like the hot water is being forced out by the same pump that supplies the cold water.
        1. 0
          2 February 2025 05: 51
          Saving on pumps is also a positive point and an indicator of Finnish ingenuity.
          1. +4
            2 February 2025 09: 44
            Saving on pumps is also a positive point and an indicator of Finnish ingenuity.

            Well, the Finns are not the trendsetters here :) Such a barrel cooling system was used everywhere, both in pillboxes, ours too, and in anti-aircraft machine gun mounts. A good example is our quadruple anti-aircraft machine gun mount M4 model 1931. A tank in the form of a truncated cone with water and a hand pump for pumping it through the cooling casings of the machine guns.
        2. +5
          2 February 2025 09: 32
          It looks like the hot water is being forced out by the same pump that supplies the cold water.

          The system has a closed loop.
    2. +6
      2 February 2025 09: 31
      blue pump with handle

      Is this for supplying water to cool the barrel?

      Exactly. The task of one of the machine gun crew members was to pump water through the cooling jacket. In our pillboxes the system was similarly arranged
  2. 0
    2 February 2025 07: 20
    Considering the weight of the armor steel, he did not risk his health by carrying it out of the forest on foot for several kilometers,

    Well, what's the weight? The ball is the size of a 16 kg weight. Minus the handle, minus the cavities. Probably 10 kg, no more.
    I admit that the seeker had more important finds than this low-budget metal.
    1. +6
      2 February 2025 09: 54
      Well, what's the weight? The ball is the size of a 16 kg weight. Minus the handle, minus the cavities. Probably 10 kg, no more.
      I admit that the seeker had more important finds than this low-budget metal.

      You know, even if we follow your mathematical logic (we didn't weigh it, but from experience of morning exercises with a 16 kg weight, the weight of the ball is about 13-14 kg), it's not much fun to drag a 10 kg "weight" without a handle through a forest growing in rough terrain for about 4,5 km. And since our friend is about 60 years old, it's more than logical to take care of his back.
      Well, your last passage reminds me of the logic of the little blind girl from the joke about the bowl of dumplings - "I can imagine how many you put in!"
      1. 0
        8 February 2025 17: 10
        Photo from the archive of G.L. Smetanin
  3. +3
    2 February 2025 08: 49
    Thank you!
    Being just a reader on VO, I am surprised that even such an interesting publication, neutral in presentation, receives caustic comments.
  4. +2
    2 February 2025 14: 06
    I looked at this air-cooled barrel and imagined how the air must have flowed above it in the heat of battle. Didn't it interfere with aiming in the confined space? It must be like looking through wavy glass.
    1. +5
      2 February 2025 14: 28
      I looked at this air-cooled barrel and imagined how the air must have flowed over it in the heat of battle. Surely, in the confined space, it didn't interfere with aiming?

      Of course it did interfere, even though the sighting hole was still larger, unlike the ball mounts for the DT-29 that are widespread in our country (especially for installation in a tank), but if we consider the issue of aiming in more detail, then in the midst of the battle the machine gunner was only required to maintain the density of fire in a pre-sighted sector, only changing the range to the target on the command of the bunker commander, who either made the adjustments himself or received data from the field filling around. Here in this photo (for a water-cooled machine gun) above the embrasure you can see a panel on which there was a terrain diagram (fire card) with sighted landmarks and the gunner only had to combine the arrow connected to the machine gun mount with the pre-sighted landmarks indicated on the diagram. The Finns also molded something similar for light machine guns in bunkers, so some simple pointers to landmarks could well have been there. On the other hand, in our pillboxes it was the same, but air-cooled machine guns were used not as the main armament, but for self-defense in machine gun shutters.
      1. +3
        2 February 2025 18: 09
        Thank you, informative. I didn't even know about the panel with the terrain map.
        1. +3
          2 February 2025 19: 36
          I didn't even know about the panel with the terrain map.

          In our pillboxes, I repeat, they were also there and an interesting but dangerous story is connected with this. During the post-war modernization of the pillboxes of the Karelian fortified area, these panels were covered with luminous paint so that even in the absence of light sources, the machine gunner could mow down the enemy. And several years ago, enthusiasts found out that this paint is radioactive and threatens quite serious poisoning if its particles get inside the body (for example, touched it with your hands - lit a cigarette). The pillboxes were further examined and several were found to have this danger, after which they were decontaminated.
          1. +2
            2 February 2025 21: 45
            Quote: Blue Fox
            Enthusiasts have discovered that this paint is radioactive and poses a serious risk of poisoning if its particles enter the body.

            As far as I remember, this paint was based on uranium salts. They don't make it now, but they used to even paint Christmas tree decorations with it.
            1. Des
              +3
              3 February 2025 06: 26
              Quote from cpls22
              There was paint based on uranium salts. They don't make it now, but they used to even paint Christmas tree decorations with it.

              and on mechanical watches (including wristwatches) - hands, numbers. It was.
      2. +2
        3 February 2025 19: 12
        ... above the embrasure you can see a panel on which there was a diagram of the area (a firing card) with sighted-in landmarks, and the gunner only had to align the arrow connected by a drive to the machine gun mount and the landmarks indicated on the diagram with the sighted-in landmarks.


        If I am not mistaken, the so-called Korolkov device was used for these purposes for the PS-31 machine.
        1. +1
          3 February 2025 19: 48
          If I am not mistaken, the so-called Korolkov device was used for these purposes for the PS-31 machine.

          Absolutely.
          1. 0
            4 February 2025 19: 22
            Have you ever seen any documentation on it?
            1. 0
              4 February 2025 20: 23
              Quote: Outsider V.
              Have you ever seen any documentation on it?

              Alas.
  5. +6
    2 February 2025 16: 37
    Interesting work, fully consistent with the subject of VO. Respect to the authors.
  6. 0
    2 February 2025 23: 23
    .... replace the morally obsolete machine gun .... I often hear that it is morally obsolete! This is wrong. Weapons do not become morally obsolete. They become obsolete by ceasing to meet technical requirements after a certain number of years. Equipment and weapons become technically obsolete, not morally. Only women become morally obsolete....
    1. +2
      3 February 2025 06: 36
      This is wrong. Morally, weapons do not become obsolete.

      There was already a discussion on this topic on VO back in 2012 https://topwar.ru/11403-moralnaya-starost.html for our part, as not specialists in small arms, but only as advanced users of some of its models, we agree with the logic of the dictionary, which is that weapons become morally obsolete after the appearance of new, more advanced models. But where this fine line lies, we will leave it to the specialists to decide.
  7. +2
    3 February 2025 01: 23
    Thanks, interesting article
  8. +5
    3 February 2025 02: 14
    Interesting article. Although I read about this before about DOTs.
    We were used to seeing "Maxim" with two machine gunners. I was surprised when my father told me in my childhood that his crew was (I don't remember) - 10-12 people. It seems that three of the crew were "water carriers". A heavy machine gun, however, it was in service. It fired without water, or rather spat right in front of itself. Another problem was its rate of fire and canvas belt. When ours switched to metal - I don't know. My father considered the German MG to be the best machine gun, which everyone tried by hook or by crook not to give to the captured teams. It came with a glove for changing the hot barrel.
    At school. They showed me the Degtyarev machine gun. A wrench in the butt. wink
    1. +4
      3 February 2025 11: 05
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      I was surprised when my father told me in my childhood that his crew was (I don't remember) 10-12 people. It seems that three of the crew were "water carriers".

      According to the 1940 manual, the Maxim crew in the infantry is 7 people. However, this is in theory - the first to be laid off was the rangefinder operator.
      The machine gun is served by the head of the machine gun and six fighters: an observer - a range finder, a gunner, a gunner’s assistant, two cartridge carriers, and a driving one.


      1. +2
        3 February 2025 12: 29
        Quote: Alexey RA
        According to the 1940 manual, the crew of a Maxim in the infantry is 7 people.

        Thank you! You can't argue with management. wink
        Still not two people. The driver is cool! And the machine gun kit!
        Maybe father meant a crew without a driver? One carries a barrel, one machine, one shield, ..., three cans of water. I don't know. Although the manual is from 1940, and he was called up in 1939.
        1. +1
          3 February 2025 12: 40
          Quote: Alexey RA
          According to the 1940 manual, the crew of a Maxim in the infantry is 7 people.

          On staff, a driver. So, a machine gun was supposed to have a horse and a cart or a tachanka? belay
          1. +4
            3 February 2025 14: 05
            Quote: Was Mammoth
            On staff, a driver. So, a machine gun was supposed to have a horse and a cart or a tachanka? belay

            If we take the staff of the rifle division No. 04/400-416 from April 5, 1941, then in the rifle battalion's machine gun company, each machine gun crew is supposed to have a cart. And one more - for the company sergeant major.
            The driver is in charge of the machine gun cart (tachanka), transports the machine guns, organizes the loading of the belts with cartridges and their delivery to the machine gun.
            1. +1
              3 February 2025 19: 45
              Quote: Alexey RA
              If we take the staff of the rifle division No. 04/400-416 from April 5, 1941,

              Thank you! Reasoned comments.
              However, I thought about it. My father, who was drafted into the Red Army in 1939 and fought in the infantry for four years, could not have made a mistake of almost half that amount. Did the war affect the staffing table? Moreover, during the retreat, the tachankas could have been lost and it was necessary to call in riflemen. In the footage of the war chronicle, you can sometimes see soldiers on the march rolling a machine gun on wheels or carrying a machine gun, a machine tool, or a slab on their shoulders...
              Unfortunately, I don't have time, but I did a little digging.
              "I tried to summarize all available information on the staffing levels of various machine gun units of the Red Army. The staffing levels, instructions, and provisions from the drill regulations were taken into account.
              This is what we ended up with:
              I Machine gun crew number of people
              1 machine gun chief - 1
              2 Observer-rangefinder - 1
              3 Gunner - 1
              4 Assistant gunner - 1
              5 Cartridge carrier - 2
              6 Sled/driver - 1
              Total - 7

              II Machine gun section qty.
              1 Squad leader - 1
              2 Observer-rangefinder - 1
              3 machine gun chief - 2
              4 Gunner - 2
              5 Assistant gunner - 2
              6 Cartridge carrier - 4
              7 Riding - 1
              Total - 13
              or Riding/Groom - 2
              Total - 14

              III Machine-gun Platoon of the Rifle Company Qty.
              1 Platoon Commander - 1
              2 machine gun chief - 2
              3 Gunner - 2
              4 Assistant gunner - 2
              5 Cartridge carrier - 4
              6 Riding - 1
              Total 12
              or Riding/Groom - 2
              Total - 13

              IV Machine Gun Platoon of the Rifle Battalion Qty.
              1 Platoon Commander - 1
              2 Squad leader - 2
              3 Observer-rangefinder - 2
              4 machine gun chief - 4
              5 Gunner - 4
              6 Assistant gunner - 4
              7 Cartridge carrier - 8
              8 Riding - 2
              Total - 27
              or Riding/Groom - 4
              Total - 29

              V Machine gun company of the rifle battalion quantity
              1 Company Commander - 1
              2 Political leader - 1
              3 Company Sergeant Major - 1
              4 Assistant Company Sergeant Major - 1
              5 Clerk - 1
              6 Platoon Commander - 3
              7 Squad leader - 6
              8 Observer-rangefinder - 6
              9 machine gun chief - 12
              10 Gunner - 12
              11 Assistant gunner - 12
              12 Cartridge carrier - 24
              13 Riding - 6
              Total - 86
              or Riding/Groom - 12
              Total - 92

              The number of riders/grooms varies depending on the transport options: cart or two-wheeled cart/pack
              The compiled diagram fits well with the drill regulations and the scant data of the pre-war staff.

              One BUT: this data does not fit in with the data of 41 and 42, where a machine gun company platoon had 4 squads, not 2.

              I am posting this for discussion."

              http://livinghistory.ru/topic/48912-shtaty-pulemetnykh-podrazdelenii-i-nomera-rasche/
              1. 0
                3 February 2025 19: 56
                The role of the assistant gunner is unclear?
                1. +1
                  3 February 2025 20: 10
                  Quote: Architect
                  The role of the assistant gunner is unclear?

                  "MANAGEMENT
                  for
                  INFANTRY Fighters
                  Chapter 12
                  MACHINE GUN SERVICE"
                  http://www.rkka.msk.ru/rbp/rbp12.shtml
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +2
                4 February 2025 15: 20
                Quote: There was a mammoth
                However, I thought about it. My father, who was drafted into the Red Army in 1939 and fought in the infantry for four years, could not have been mistaken by almost half. Did the war affect the staffing schedule?

                Well, it hasn't changed much. As there were 29 people in a rifle platoon before the war, so it remained according to the staffing from 18.03.1942: a platoon commander and 4 crews/sections of 7 people each.
                Before the war, there were 95 people in the pulverized company, now there are 91: commander, political instructor, deputy (previously - observer) and sergeant major. The clerk and 3 telephone operators were removed.

                But this is according to the staff. Which was never observed - the actual number of SD KA was constantly falling and by the end of the war was 4500-5000 people.

                IMHO, the minimum crew of "Maxim" is 3 people. Provided that the portable ammunition and water are distributed between the line shooters.
                1. +1
                  4 February 2025 15: 39
                  But this is according to the state. Which was never observed.

                  Exactly. I remember around 2007, a search party from Orenburg picked up our machine gunner on the Nevsky Pyatachok. I forgot his last name, Lefortov, I think, or something like that. So he was listed as a machine gunner, but in fact he was wearing a greatcoat with a first aid kit on top and pockets full of IPP. So he ended up in a hole in the wall of a trench with the wounded. In the loss report, he was also listed as a machine gunner, as per the staff.
                  1. +1
                    5 February 2025 10: 54
                    So he was listed as a machine gunner, but in fact he was wearing a greatcoat with a first aid bag on top and pockets full of IPP

                    Well, yes, that's right. Mortar men in machine gunners, and I remember the Novgorodians raised a technician-quartermaster of the 2nd rank to the rank of company commander. He was identified only by the unusual shoulder straps on his greatcoat and the initials on the gnawed mouthpiece.
                2. 0
                  4 February 2025 18: 25
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Well, it didn't really change much.

                  I suppose it was my "mistake". The "water carriers" are imprinted in my memory.
  9. Des
    +2
    3 February 2025 06: 40
    Thank you, I'm thrilled (in a good way) by your articles on VO, which are not just original (!) but are clearly written with soul and knowledge.
    "The Legend of the Small Garrison" is one of the childhood books that shaped me...
    When in Kaliningrad I always come to the scouts' memorial. The German pillboxes were blown up after the war.
    1. +1
      3 February 2025 07: 15
      Thank you

      And thank you for your assessment and feedback. In fact, in addition to the direct authors, many people participate in writing the article, and we use valuable information from them, summarized on the basis of their trips and hikes.
      1. Des
        +1
        3 February 2025 07: 30
        Quote: Blue Fox
        In fact, in addition to the direct authors, many people participate in writing the article, and we use valuable information from them, summarized on the basis of their trips and hikes.

        Of course I fully understand and welcome this. I wish you all health, strength and balance).
        1. +1
          3 February 2025 07: 46
          I wish you all health, strength and balance)

          Thank you for your kind words :) And to you too
    2. +1
      3 February 2025 10: 14
      Thank you, I'm thrilled (in a good way) by your articles on VO, which are not just original (!) but obviously written with soul and knowledge.

      I agree with you completely. I don't know the authors personally, but I've heard a lot of good things about them. They are also search engines that work in the Leningrad Region and Karelia.