Errors of Artificial Intelligence, errors with Intelligence - these are only our errors

76
Errors of Artificial Intelligence, errors with Intelligence - these are only our errors


Chinese intelligence versus Russian "maybe"


News The news that Chinese developer DeepSeek made its own artificial intelligence (AI) model for $5,6 million without access to advanced chips literally shook the AI ​​market. In China, they proved that, if the task is set correctly, scientists can make their own models without multi-billion dollar investments and with weak GPUs.



Explanation for the uninitiated and not particularly advanced: GPU is a graphics processor that helps process graphics operations such as graphics, effects and video. And what about this in our homeland? This is especially interesting today, in light of solutions for digitalization and the notorious AI - artificial intelligence.

Your authors, let us remember and admit their unfounded optimism, not long ago literally sang hosannas to Russian IT specialists - Is there light at the end of the IT tunnel??. So, in our homeland - with comprehensive support from the state and multi-million space grants - the leaders of IT and AI production from Sber, Yandex, AIRI and VK can really only boast that they tried a new smoothie in a loft quarter.

Mikhail Delyagin once effectively called this entire crowd "office plankton", but now we need to talk about the working aristocracy - the IT proletariat of the third millennium. So what happened, and what got us so hooked? The Chinese company DeepSeek simply released a version of the DeepSeek-V3 artificial intelligence model.


It immediately topped the download list in the US, overtaking the leader ChatGPT from the American OpenAI. A little background: DeepSeek is less than two years old, and has only 200 employees. Only $5,6 million was spent on training the network, or about 550 million rubles. For comparison, OpenAI was founded 10 years ago, has 4500 employees, and has attracted $6,6 billion in capital.

The result is DeepSeek-V3, an open-source LLM that matches the performance of leading US models but requires much less training. In performance tests, DeepSeek-V3 outperforms Meta's Llama 3.1 (banned in Russia) and other open-source models. DeepSeek-V3 matches or even outperforms Chat GPT-4o.

How can we answer?


The country's President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly said that artificial intelligence is "the most important tool for development", "one of the priorities in the economic sphere" and the need to develop sovereign AI. In order for this to happen, the state does not spare resources - by 2030, it is planned to allocate 145,85 billion rubles to the development of this area.

We calculate that this is 290 times more than was needed to promote DeepSeek. In 2025 alone, 7,7 billion rubles were allocated for the implementation of the federal project "Artificial Intelligence" - this is 15 times more than DeepSeek needed. Grants and subsidies are allocated to AI startups, large developers of domestic niche hardware and software systems for AI purposes and research centers.

In addition, after the start of the special military operation, AI-ers turned out to be almost the most privileged caste - they received mortgage benefits, as a result of which it became almost impossible for an ordinary citizen to buy an apartment, and they received a deferment from military service.

And where are the results?


The giants of the Russian AI market do not seem to have an answer to this question. It would seem that the specialists from Sber could boast of the results. The bank, almost a monopoly, has been explaining to the state for many years how to manage budget billions for the development of AI, and even established the Institute of Artificial Intelligence (AIRI) for this purpose.

But instead of results - zilch. In parallel with the increase in interest rates on loans, which the bankers, of course, are not to blame for, they feed the already well-fed programmers at the expense of the population. Sber collects developers, and then relaxes them with astronomical salaries. 280-350 thousand rubles - you won't surprise anyone with such a sum there.

But this is more than on the fronts of the SVO. As the editorial staff's interlocutor, who works at Sber as an IT specialist, admitted, “For a whole year he did nothing and all this time he received more than 200 thousand rubles monthly, and only after a year the management began to ask him questions.”

Sber has 70 scientific publications and SberAI, which is not in demand even within the country: Russian companies prefer ChatGPT from OpenAI (54%) and Google Cloud AI from Google (18%) to solve work tasks.

Is it just a bank?


The situation with IT developments and the notorious AI is no better at Yandex, where IT specialists also do not complain about life. For example, the salary of a leading backend developer can reach 680 rubles per month. The salary of a middle developer is on average 000 rubles, but can reach 300 rubles for specialists with extensive experience (more than five years).

So what do we get? A neural network that, in response to the children's riddle "Who is left on the pipe if A and B disappeared?" answers "Nobody". Noticed the meme from the networks: "Isn't this a fiasco, bro?"

Chinese scientific miracle


What is the secret of the Chinese success? DeepSeek founder Liang Wenfeng emphasizes that the driver is not immediate financial profit, but scientific research. According to Wenfeng, they hire mostly top university graduates and late-stage PhD students who have published in leading journals but have little industry experience.

"If we have to find a commercial reason, we probably can't do it because it's not profitable. From a commercial perspective, fundamental research has a very low return on investment, and when OpenAI's early investors put their money in, they weren't thinking about profit. They did it because they wanted to,"
– Wenfeng commented.

Science is often put at the forefront in China. According to the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), the largest number of patent applications in the field of generative AI are filed by the Chinese, significantly ahead of other countries in the top five – the United States, South Korea, Japan and India.

Interestingly, between 2014 and 2023, China registered more than 38 inventions in the field of generative AI. This is six times more than the United States, which ranks second in terms of the number of patents. Russia, on the other hand, was only in 10th place in terms of the number of patent applications.

And no one is to blame?


And yet, consider this an advertisement, real problems are solved in our country, and most often it is not the vaunted IT giants who do this, but small “companies” of a disruptive type – in a garage with weak hardware. This is especially relevant in the sphere drones, where even a small company can create an innovative product quite quickly.

An example of this is the Oko Design Bureau and its Privet-82 attack drones, which were reported on our pages a year and a half ago (Kamikaze Drone Developer Prepares First Batch). There are already plenty of reviews of them on the net. They can hit targets at a distance of over 30 miles, which is much further than the FPV, and with a heavier warhead than the FPV.


And they cost several times less than other types. weapons. There are many such developments and similar companies in Russia, and they often supply FPV drones to the front. Such enterprises bypass the military procurement system and are financed by donations and funds transferred by the soldiers themselves.

Although Russia has tried to adapt to the startup culture, large contractors still have complete control over the supply chain. New companies with dangerous ideas about producing affordable and efficient systems are usually not given a chance. Newcomers like Oko usually end up in a very limited parallel universe known as the “people’s military-industrial complex.”

They have to work there under tight budget conditions. There are small companies that solve not military, but peacetime economic problems - they also exist, and they are also necessary. But they, as a rule, are far from the "feeding trough" and can only dream of billions. But they solve not fictitious, but real problems.

What to do?


While China has managed to make its own technologies and create its own GPUs for training and executing neural networks, Russia still has neither. And it seems that after the introduction of further sanctions by the US related to restrictions on the import of American chips, the situation will only get worse.

I wonder who will get these super-valuable GPUs — IT giants with zero output or garage developers? The question is rhetorical. Maybe it's time to punish those who throw away budget billions and coordinate grants in favor of well-fed IT specialists? Shouldn't we stop enriching the "white-hat" guys of Yandex and Sber?

Or should we follow the example of our Chinese colleagues and hand over the solution of the problems to the scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences? Otherwise, we will have to watch the AI ​​race from the sidelines, without becoming a full-fledged participant.
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  1. +4
    30 January 2025 04: 37
    For this to happen, the state does not spare resources – by 2030, it is planned to allocate 145,85 billion rubles to the development of this area.
    We calculate - this is 290 times more than was needed to promote DeepSeek. In 2025 alone, 7,7 billion rubles were allocated for the implementation of the federal project "Artificial Intelligence" - this is 15 times more than DeepSeek needed.

    Here's a continuation of the joke: And let this "louse egg" choke.
    For every Rusnano there is a Chubais
  2. +11
    30 January 2025 05: 33
    More proof of the obvious: to achieve commercial success, it is not a businessman who should be at the helm, but a techie. And not just a techie, but a specialist who is passionate about the idea. Examples of many Western, even the largest firms, confirm this - as soon as profit is put at the forefront, quality magically falls, and with it the profit itself.
    1. +3
      30 January 2025 05: 49
      Quote: U. Cheny
      And not just a techie, but a specialist who is passionate about the idea
      I know one such "passionate" specialist and "great economist" Kudrin, who worked at Yandex. After his leadership, we should expect a serious "breakthrough" in AI to unprecedented heights wink wink
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 09: 26
        Don't confuse necessary conditions with sufficient conditions.
      2. +1
        10 February 2025 00: 16
        Yandex has been ineffective for 20 years now. They can only crookedly and slantedly adapt existing market products. Mostly foreign ones, such as taxi aggregators, marketplaces, delivery, etc. Otherwise, they have not produced anything new for over 20 years.
    2. +2
      30 January 2025 09: 25
      More proof of the obvious: to achieve commercial success, the leader must be a techie, not a businessman.


      Only when there is commercial success for at least 5-10 years, then we can talk, for now it is just a startup, and I repeat once again, if at least someone read the DeepSeek-V3 Technical Report (https://arxiv.org/html/2412.19437v1), they would understand that the result is not bad, but nothing outstanding.
      After all, all these psychologists are right that people’s critical thinking has dropped significantly and they are running after hype.
      1. +1
        30 January 2025 13: 40
        All these psychologists are right that people's critical thinking has dropped significantly and they are running after hype.
        No need to go far feel even on this site you can see the hype-eaters in the form of "generals"... For example, the title of the article... They declared in the Bundestag...)... They are the first to cut with sabers, woooh we defeated everyone, we bent the Germans wassat . .. And in the article, after the monologue of some deputy... he wrote on the network X... And this is not the young generation wink as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree... hi and regarding AI... It's an information retrieval program and nothing more! Yes
        1. 0
          2 February 2025 17: 16
          So this is an information retrieval program and nothing more!

          Not quite, but close.
      2. 0
        30 January 2025 14: 08
        Well, the conversation was about the price-quality ratio, first and foremost.
        And how long they will stay on the wave is also a question, especially since there are many completely non-market ways to strangle a competitor. The fact is that a serious level of the product was achieved in minimal time and money precisely because the main goal was good quality of the product, and only then sales and so on. By the way, according to American researchers, it was the emphasis on ideal quality, even if temporarily to the detriment of economic indicators, that allowed the Japanese to achieve such success in their time.
    3. +1
      30 January 2025 09: 35
      Examples of many Western, even the largest, companies confirm this - as soon as profit is put at the forefront, quality magically falls, and with it, the profit itself.


      Examples of large Western companies show that success is, first of all, the ability to see the customers’ problem and offer them a solution.
      What's more, watch interviews with domestic people, for example, the founder of DublGIS Sysoev in the podcast Russian Norms, a person who is not an IT specialist or a cartographer at all, and how he came to his product.
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 14: 14
        No one argues that a good businessman or a commercial streak in an engineer will never hurt. But the Boeing example shows what happens when the opinion of a businessman becomes decisive.
    4. -1
      2 February 2025 17: 17
      To achieve commercial success, it is not the businessman who must be at the helm, but the technician.

      But to write articles on VO about AI, you just need to be a complete layman.
  3. +1
    30 January 2025 05: 44
    The situation with IT developments and the notorious AI is no better at Yandex
    Why should Yandex be in a better situation if the company split up? Everything related to AI development was spun off into a separate company abroad, and all that was left of Yandex was search with various huckster services. Modern Yandex is just hucksters making money on whatever they can. The IT company is engaged in ordinary hucksterism, such as taxis, grocery delivery, and anything else, but not the development of digital technologies. Yandex has a good search, and even then only for the Russian-speaking segment and mail. All its other services, go to the toilet wink
  4. +2
    30 January 2025 06: 02
    founded the Artificial Intelligence Institute (AIRI). But instead of results - zilch.

    It's strange, it seems like there is a competitor, Rusnano smile
  5. +1
    30 January 2025 06: 21
    The story with the Chinese software is scary not because it has brought down the market. But because it inevitably suggests a conclusion. Either America has completely lost its programming skills, since it needed thousands of employees and tens of billions to create these products, or even worse - all the projects were in fact initially a grand scam in its purest form. Pursuing the goal of inflating another IT bubble out of thin air and then fleecing suckers.

    And it's not even very clear which of the options is worse.. Alas - this also applies to our turnover... It's like some kind of international conspiracy to milk the budget and investors. And then - damn the Chinese took all the raspberries and shit on them. It turned out ugly, though.
    1. +2
      30 January 2025 09: 03
      The story with Chinese software is scary not because it has brought down the market. But because it inevitably suggests a conclusion. Either America has finally lost its competence.......


      This all just shows how the authors are chasing hype now, you are chasing it too, no one wants to even understand the topic a little, tell me honestly, before writing your comment, did you read the technical report of DeepSeek, I will even give you a link https://arxiv.org/html/2412.19437v1

      I will assume that no, you haven’t read it, but I advise you to write conclusions that are, let’s say, extremely out of touch with reality before you do so.
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 10: 29
        I really don't understand why you're foaming at the mouth so early in the morning. I read the report before yours, I guess, but how does it refute my thesis?
        1. +2
          30 January 2025 10: 39
          I understand that you are putting on a good face when the game is bad, and if you read the report, it was only after I sent you the link regarding your thesis.

          od. Either America has completely lost its programming skills, since it needed thousands of employees and tens of billions to create these products, or even worse - all the projects were in fact a grand scam from the very beginning.


          According to the DeepSeek report, they used the H800 GPU from Nvidia, yes, now we can say that these are "cheap" chips, but for them to become so, incredible competencies and investments in R&D are needed, only a person who is completely far from the topic can not understand this.

          there is some kind of international conspiracy to milk the budget and investors. And then - damned Chinese took all the raspberries and shit on them. It turned out ugly, though.


          Are you even involved in professional software development at least at the level of an average enterprise, so that we can understand your competence? Because in my opinion, you are writing just a blatant conspiracy theory far from reality.

          And what kind of foam throwing am I, I just once again saw in your comment a confirmation of the famous Dunning-Kruger Effect.
    2. +1
      30 January 2025 15: 57
      When the Chinese type of intelligence starts giving answers that LGBT is cool, and the Chinese Communist Party are tyrants, then a completely reasonable question arises - did Chinese geniuses steal all sorts of American workflows?
  6. +8
    30 January 2025 07: 16
    DEEP SEEK
    Good morning, guys. I'm answering questions about the Chinese neural network Deep Seek. Since there's a lot of shouting (and money) around this topic.

    Very briefly. In a nutshell. Because you need to work, and all this is a so-so event.

    First, for those who don't know, what's all the fuss about?

    Trump announced $500 billion for AI for a Delaware group led by OpenAI and this is exciting the average person. Then China said:
    - Americans are thieves and bourgeois. Long live the Chinese Communist Party! We only needed $6 million. And we made our own neural network Deep Seek. It is better than OpenAI. And we made it publicly available.

    The world began to shout nonsense as usual:
    War between China and US AI! Hurray!
    Stupid things always cost fools money. And NVIDIA shares have plummeted (they are in the OpenAI group for $500 billion)

    In fact, the following can be said about Deep Seek:

    - this is one of the mid-level neural networks. Today, our specialists from Cognitive Pilot have 19 such neural networks in their collection.

    - In this cursory analysis, the DeepSeek neural network immediately ignores political topics that are sensitive for the People's Republic of China and is unable to answer many questions concerning the country's internal affairs.

    - We looped this neural network in literally 7 minutes.

    - By default, DeepSeek does not focus on sources when executing a request. The answers are superficial. You need to poke around in the "Deep Thinking" mode to get anything. And in it, the time for processing requests immediately increases geometrically.

    - We have NOT yet found any serious differences between DeepSeek and ChatGPT in answers to basic questions. At the same time, the Chinese periodically fall into English when asked in Russian. It looks like a reprint of ChatGPT, as is customary in one huge eastern country.

    - The functionality is insufficient even in comparison with our AI "Ippolit". There is not even a voice request. (Hello! People! This is really basic. Funny!)

    Conclusion: Pure hype. I already wrote that Russian industrial AI developments are much more interesting and dangerous for the US, but our state is wrapped in the shit of worshiping foreigners. And the press works only in this direction. Instead of hyping up information about AI from Cognitive Pilot, from Sber, from Yandex, finally, ours write about China with snotty delight.

    We'll get there. We'll have to bow to the yellow-faced gentleman in the morning and mutter:
    Hello!
    Olga Uskova | Cognitive Life
    @cognitive_life
    1. +4
      30 January 2025 07: 19
      You need to ask the experts where the Russian AI is. Olga Anatolyevna Uskova is a Russian entrepreneur, founder and president of the Cognitive Technologies group of companies (a Russian developer of artificial intelligence technologies). CEO of Cognitive Pilot (a subsidiary of Sberbank and Cognitive Technologies). 1

      Uskova manages a business in the field of creating artificial intelligence for unmanned transport in Russia, the EU, the USA, Asia, Latin America and Africa. Initiator and manager of projects to create AI for unmanned trams, railway locomotives, unmanned agricultural machinery, as well as autopilots and innovative sensors for the Russian and global industry
    2. +1
      30 January 2025 07: 58
      Quote: Carib
      Olga Uskova

      Everyone points to this Uskova as the most compelling argument.
      Meanwhile, Russian analogues of DeepSeek, such as Yandex gpt and gigachat, do not have such success. There are no millions of downloads of their applications. I do not know any! There are only empty words of this lady.
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 09: 19
        Start with the simple, don't trust anyone, read DeepSeek-V3 Technical Report

        https://arxiv.org/html/2412.19437v1

        all questions will simply disappear after this.
      2. +3
        30 January 2025 09: 22
        Quote: Stas157
        Meanwhile, Russian analogues of DeepSeek, such as Yandex gpt and gigachat, do not have such success. There are no millions of downloads of their applications

        So it's not about the potential of Russian applications, but about promotion. In the current situation, outside the Russian Federation any Russian product is considered toxic by default. Even under equal conditions, a Western user will use their software product, but not ours. And it is generally incorrect to consider a Chinese product in this regard - any of their programs is designed, first of all, for their market, and this, by the way, is larger than the whole of united Europe.
        Hence, "there are no million downloads" (c) of Russian applications
        1. -1
          30 January 2025 12: 43
          Quote from sdivt
          So it’s not about the potential of Russian applications, but about promotion.

          What is there to promote if Yandex gpt and gigachat simply don’t have separate applications?
          But DeepSeek has an app. And it's free!

          Quote from sdivt
          And it is completely incorrect to consider a Chinese product in this regard - any of their programs is designed, first of all, for their own market.

          I use it (DeepSic). Everything is fine there. Download. Or you can use it in the browser without downloading. You just need to register! Everything is in Russian.

          https://chat.deepseek.com/

          All these Yandexes and Sberbanks are passing by.
          1. 0
            30 January 2025 15: 01
            You can connect to gigachat for free and without registration in the telegram channel @gigachat_bot. It is very convenient to ask a question and get an answer sometimes.
            And to https://chat.deepseek.com/ you still need to register and log in
          2. 0
            31 January 2025 23: 23
            Quote: Stas157
            What is there to promote if Yandex gpt and gigachat simply don’t have separate applications?
            But DeepSeek has an app. And it's free!

            So why download, everything is built into the browser. That's the strategy.
            And what about you, if there is no application, then that’s it, your mind doesn’t understand how to use it? laughing

            Oh, sorry, I didn't notice -
            Quote: Stas157
            All these Yandexes and Sberbanks are passing by.

            What, is the Chinese really that good? I doubt that the Chinese chatbot is better than the American one... Cheaper, yes, it's always easier to copy.
      3. +2
        30 January 2025 16: 03
        There are no millions of downloads of their apps
        All these apps are like Tamagotchis in the year 2000, when suddenly all the kids had them, and six months later no one had them anymore, because they had played with them enough.
  7. +1
    30 January 2025 07: 30
    . So what do we get? A neural network that, in response to the children's riddle "Who remained on the pipe if A and B disappeared?" answers "Nobody". Noticed the meme from the networks: "Isn't this a fiasco, bro?"

    Asked the same riddle to Deep Sik. And here is the answer:

    If **A** and **B** are missing, then **B** remains on the pipe.

    This is a classic joke or riddle based on the alphabetical sequence: A, B, **C**.
    1. +3
      30 January 2025 09: 22
      The Chinese have not watched the Soviet film "Youths in the Universe". laughing
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 12: 57
        The riddle from the movie "Boys in the Universe" asked by the computer on the spaceship is:
        **"What is it: when it is needed, it is thrown away, and when it is not needed, it is picked up?"**

        **Answer: Anchor.**

        This riddle is related to the logic of using an anchor on a ship: when it is needed (to stop), it is thrown into the water, and when it is not needed (while moving), it is picked up. In the context of the film, the heroes had to solve it in order to pass the test and continue the mission.

        didn't watch
        and the computer couldn't watch wassat
        1. 0
          30 January 2025 13: 23
          And why such an AI?.. And why does AI need it anyway, if humanity becomes lazy to think, it will degrade, although already.. AI is created for its own degradation..
          1. +1
            30 January 2025 22: 24
            I can give a simple example where Russian engineering has degraded below the bottom.
            The design of motorways in Russia, from the point of view of safety and convenience, is, without a doubt, the worst in the world. So let's not talk about all of humanity. The degradation is much closer and more noticeable.
            If you need examples, I can easily give them. True, they are mostly local, what I have before my eyes.
            1. +2
              31 January 2025 07: 51
              Well, yes... degradation of the current in Russia, the rest of humanity is simply developing rapidly, becoming smarter and smarter and apparently from great intelligence, there are so many conflicts in the world, reaching genocide...
              1. -2
                1 February 2025 16: 30
                You have your priorities completely wrong. The mistakes in architecture and construction that have been made since the 70s and continue to be made today are a guarantee of problems and the country's lagging behind for decades and even centuries. Many architectural mistakes are irreparable, and road design mistakes are even more dangerous. But little is being done to correct the situation, and it continues to worsen.
                Look at the two examples I have given below. I can give dozens of such examples on the roads.
            2. +2
              31 January 2025 23: 34
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              I can give a simple example where Russian engineering has degraded below the bottom.
              The design of highways in Russia, from the point of view of safety and convenience, is, without a doubt, the worst in the world.

              Well, don't generalize. What countries are you comparing it to? The US? Honduras? Dubai, Chad? Do you think local roads in France and Russia are very different?
              And in Russia, even if you compare the M-12 and M-8, the difference is huge. Maybe in your area the engineering has degraded, but in general I would not generalize about Russia...
              1. -1
                1 February 2025 16: 09
                Here are two examples from neighboring areas with the same error.
                https://yandex.ru/maps/-/CHejNO3x
                Here the R-229 highway turns into 18K9. The main road goes off to the side, the secondary road continues straight. What is the mistake? The main road should go straight, and the secondary road should join, preferably at a right angle. What can and has already led to? Drivers confuse the main road with the secondary road, continue driving straight and run into the river bank. Alas, sometimes with a sad outcome.
                More https://yandex.ru/maps/-/CHejRX4k
                And here the main road, 12P-001 makes a left turn almost at a right angle, and the secondary road continues straight. Some drivers, without noticing, continue moving straight and run into the checkpoint. And here the main road should go straight, and the secondary road should adjoin the checkpoint, preferably at a right angle.
                Two areas is a terrain? No, it is not just a terrain, it is a system, a completely degraded road design system.
                So what if a couple of roads are done well? If all the others are made with mistakes?
                And yes, local roads in France and Russia are very different. Two approximately identical cities are Sochi and Monaco. In Monaco there are roundabouts, and in Sochi there are primitive cross-shaped intersections. And you don’t have to visit France, just look at the maps to see the sharp difference in approaches.
                1. +1
                  2 February 2025 14: 24
                  The roads were most likely built at different times. There is nothing very criminal there. If everything is marked with signs and pointers. Although yes, the decisions are not the best, but here it is most likely financial expediency.
                  And, it must be said, drivers need to be more careful, especially in the first case. There are more than 30 km to the river bank and if the driver slips off the bank, it is in no way connected with the junction. Perhaps it indicates the systematic inattention of the driver, first he went on the wrong road, then he did not notice a large bay...

                  Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                  Two approximately identical cities: Sochi and Monaco.

                  Well, damn, they compared Sochi to Monaco! laughing Monaco is a principality, a city state. The opportunities are simply incomparable, the density of millionaires per square kilometer is off the charts even compared to Europe, let alone the shabby Sochi, even Moscow would burst with envy laughing
                  1. -1
                    2 February 2025 18: 20
                    Where will you get opportunities if the roads are designed incorrectly?
                    That's why Sochi isn't Monaco. A city with inconvenient roads can't be successful. If you can't design roads, what can you do at all?
                    And, specifically about the car that fell into the water at the tributary of the Volgograd reservoir. Most likely it happened at night and the driver thought until the last minute that he was driving on the main road. Making a branch correctly costs exactly the same as making it incorrectly.
                    Need more examples of where incorrect connections lead to accidents?
  8. +2
    30 January 2025 07: 39
    What is the secret of the Chinese success?

    They don't have Putin with his team.
    What to do?

    Need Stalin.
    1. -3
      5 February 2025 06: 39
      Quote: Million
      What is the secret of the Chinese success?

      They don't have Putin with his team.
      What to do?

      Need Stalin.

      And China has a Stalin? With 70℅ of industry and 85℅ of the banking sector owned by NOT to the state?
  9. +3
    30 January 2025 08: 05
    Actually, they say that the peculiarity of the Chinese DeepSeek is that
    1) its source code is open, any third party can take the trained model and use it in their developments for free, unlike many other AI from commercial companies
    2) it required much less of these same GPUs to get the same result, the Chinese were able to optimize it well
    3) this model doesn't just give an answer, it reasons when receiving it. Here is a printout of its answer to "A, I, B" (taken from the site [https://www.linux.org.ru/])
    a and b were sitting on the pipe, a fell, b disappeared, what was left on the pipe?

    Okay, let's get to the bottom of this riddle. At first glance, it seems like a play on words, typical of children's riddles. So, we have two characters, "a" and "b", who are sitting on a pipe. Then something happens: "a fell, b disappeared". The question is: what is left on the pipe?

    The first thing that comes to mind is that the letters "a" and "b" are not used here as independent objects, but as parts of a word or words that can change when certain letters are removed. Perhaps there is a play with the letters of the Russian alphabet.

    Let's think: if we have the letter "a" and the letter "b", and they "sit on the pipe", that is, they make up some word together with "pipe". But "pipe" may be the key word here. Maybe we need to look at the word "pipe" and see what happens if we remove the letters "a" and "b" from it. But the word "pipe" has the letter "a", but not "b". Then if "a fell", then we remove "a" from the word "pipe", and "pipe" remains. Then "b disappeared" - we remove "b" from "pipe", and we get "true". But "true" is not a very meaningful word, perhaps we need to look for a different approach.

    Alternative: perhaps the letters "a" and "b" represent parts of a word that is related to a pipe. For example, "watermelon" - but there is no connection to a pipe. Or "ab..." something. Maybe "paragraph"? No, that doesn't work.

    Another thought: in the Russian alphabet, the letters go in the order a, b, c, g... If "a" fell and "b" disappeared, then the next letter is "c". Perhaps the answer is the letter "c" that remained on the pipe. That is, after removing "a" and "b", "c" remains.

    But then why "v"? Because it's the next letter after "a" and "b"? Or because if you remove "a" and "b" from the word "pipe", you're left with "tr", but that doesn't fit with the letter "v".

    Perhaps we should look not at the letters of the alphabet, but at the words themselves. "a" and "b" were sitting on a pipe. If "a" fell, then "b" remained. Then "b" disappeared, so there was nothing left. But then the answer is nothing. However, children's riddles usually have a pun or wordplay, not a literal answer.

    Another option: perhaps "a" and "b" are abbreviations of "Anya" and "Borya", but then it has nothing to do with the letters. Or maybe they are parts of a word, for example, "watermelon": "a" and "b" as the first letters, but then it is unclear.

    Another approach: some riddles use the fact that when you remove letters from a word, other letters remain. For example, if you have the word "slava" and remove the "a", you get "slv". But this does not help.

    Let's try again: "a" and "b" on a pipe. If you remove "a" and "b", what's left? If a pipe is a word, then without "a" and "b" you're left with "tr", but that doesn't make sense. Maybe these aren't letters, but sounds? For example, "a" and "b" as sounds, but then it's unclear.

    Or maybe these are mathematical symbols? For example, "a" and "b" as variables, but then again it is not clear.

    Another idea: in Russian there is an expression "на Трубе", maybe it means a pipe as a part of a musical instrument or as a chimney. But how does this relate to letters?

    Perhaps the answer is that after removing "a" and "b", the letter "c" remains as the next letter in the alphabet. That is: a, b, c, d... If a and b are removed, then the next letter is "c". Therefore, the answer is: the letter "c" remains on the pipe.

    But then why "v"? Because if you remove the first two letters of the alphabet, the next one is the third, which is "v". Perhaps this is the answer.

    Let's check: if "a" fell, "b" disappeared, then "c" remained. This means that the letter "c" remained on the pipe. This is logical in the context of the alphabetical sequence.

    But you could also think that "pipe" is a word, and if you take away "a" and "b", you're left with "tr". But "tr" is not a meaningful word. So it's more likely that the answer has to do with the letters of the alphabet.

    So, the most likely answer is that the letter "v" remains on the pipe.

    Answer: The letter "B" remains on the pipe.

    This is a classic children's riddle based on the sequence of letters of the Russian alphabet. If "a" (the first letter) has fallen and "b" (the second letter) is gone, then the next letter is "B" (the third in the alphabet). Thus, the wordplay consists of the transition from the letters "a" and "b" to the next letter "b", which remains on the pipe.

    1. +1
      30 January 2025 08: 52
      Quote: October
      Actually, they say that the peculiarity of the Chinese DeepSeek is that

      Here's another thing. Yes, NVIDIA GPU was needed less, but that was for the first versions. And the latest version used a purely Chinese chip - DeepSeek R1 processes data on Huawei Ascend 910C AI chips. And that's a completely different situation.
      1. 0
        30 January 2025 08: 54
        Yes, I know. And it's great that the Chinese have solved the chip issue. I would like to hope that we will have our own too.
  10. +1
    30 January 2025 08: 08
    And our Sber has AI Gigachat. It is available for free both via the web and via the Telegram channel. And it works well, I like it. Although it does not conduct such discussions as DeepSeek
  11. 0
    30 January 2025 08: 59
    Western Technological Superiority - A Realistic Analysis.


    Method I:
    A The basic building blocks of all Western big tech corporations (software, hardware, firmware, AI algorithms, etc.) were open source technologies and developers from all over the planet. People with unlimited knowledge and skills were directed to the "Silicon Valley"; from Russia, China, India and from different parts of the world.

    Also, Western companies paid them very well. The golden age of technology was born. Western cleverly used global human resources and talent to their advantage. It was a win-win scenario for employer and employee. Corruption and exploitation were greater less through this process.

    Countries around the world have created special economic zones (SEZ) and abolished export and import duties on software and hardware products. They have created more new science/engineering training institutions. This successful method can be replicated in any country.

    Method II:
    The second approach is Open Source All technology. The manufacturer could decide that the final product is free/paid. DeepSeek has created history by following Method II. Open source OS/servers, ARM processors, AI, etc. Game changer. High-end and low-end products have always made a success in the market.

    China's Technological Success Includes:

    Mobile Phone: Huawei, Xiaomi, Redmi, Realme, Infinix, Oppo, Vivo etc.
    Laptops: Lenovo, Xiaomi, etc.
    Processors: Kunpeng, Kirin, Open Source Lever Based Processors etc.
    Operating Systems: Harmony OS (Android/Linux Based), Kylin OS (Linux Based), etc.
    Network: Huawei, TP-Link, Tenda etc.

    There are endless number of Chinese companies that produce TV, monitors, smart WATCH/Devices, RAM/HDD, connectors/ports, I/O devices, etc.
  12. +2
    30 January 2025 09: 34
    I wonder if anyone has ever tried to give DeepSeek the task of reasoning on the topic of "why did competing companies fall so much on the stock market?" Because A and B on the pipe is not an indicator (by the way, I always considered this degenerate riddle unfair).
    1. -2
      30 January 2025 13: 05
      I always thought this degenerate riddle was unfair

      so you are still Deepseek too sad
  13. -1
    30 January 2025 10: 24
    The situation with IT developments and the notorious AI is no better at Yandex, where IT specialists also do not complain about life. For example, the salary of a leading backend developer can reach 680 rubles per month. The salary of a middle developer is on average 000 rubles, but can reach 300 rubles for specialists with extensive experience (more than five years).

    So what do we get? A neural network that, in response to the children's riddle "Who is left on the pipe if A and B disappeared?" answers "Nobody". Noticed the meme from the networks: "Isn't this a fiasco, bro?"


    Authors, you've become impudent, look at Yandex products, the best search in RuNet, excellent services Yandex maps, Yandex navigation, Yandex buckets, development of unmanned vehicles, delivery by robots, etc., etc.
  14. -1
    30 January 2025 11: 06
    Grants and other subsidies are evil.
    We need an analogue of the Stalin Prize. If there is a result, get it and don't deny yourself anything. If there is no result, go wash your test tubes and live on your salary alone.
    Receiving money under promises to develop something, no one will work for the result, because having delivered high-quality work, they will instantly lose funding.
    1. 0
      30 January 2025 15: 07
      An analogue of the Stalin Prize is needed.

      Only it still needs a guaranteed job until the result is obtained. And for everyone, both the one who will ultimately receive the Stalin Prize and the others who will lose the competition. Which is impossible under capitalism.
    2. 0
      31 January 2025 18: 35
      We need an analogue of the Stalin Prize. If there is a result, get it and don't deny yourself anything. If there is no result, go wash your test tubes and live on your salary alone.


      There is no need to multiply entities beyond measure, everything already exists and the awards ceremony is shown on news channels.

      Wiki
      The State Prize of the Russian Federation is a prize awarded since 1992 by the President of the Russian Federation for contribution to the development of science and technology, literature and art, for outstanding production results.
      Starting with the State Prizes for 2004[4], new rules for awarding State Prizes of the Russian Federation were established:

      Are installed

      three State Prizes of the Russian Federation in the field of science and technology (since 2006 – four[5]);
      three State Prizes of the Russian Federation in the field of literature and art;
      one State Prize of the Russian Federation for outstanding achievements in the field of humanitarian activities (since 2005).
      two State Prizes of the Russian Federation for outstanding achievements in the field of human rights and charitable activities (since 2016)

      The prizes were worth 1 million rubles each[6]. The prizes are awarded to stimulate further scientific and creative work of the laureates of these prizes, to create favorable conditions for new scientific discoveries and creative achievements. Since 2020, the size of the State Prize is 10 million rubles[7][8].

      The State Prize of the Russian Federation in the field of science and technology is awarded to citizens of the Russian Federation for outstanding work, discoveries and achievements, the results of which have significantly enriched domestic and world science and have had a significant impact on the development of scientific and technological progress.

      The State Prize of the Russian Federation in the field of literature and art is awarded to citizens of the Russian Federation for outstanding contribution to the development of national and world culture, expressed in the creation of particularly significant literary works and creative works.

      The State Prize of the Russian Federation for outstanding achievements in humanitarian activities is awarded to individuals who are active, fruitful in educational and peacekeeping activities that contribute to the affirmation of enduring moral values, the consolidation of society and have received wide public recognition in Russia. This type of State Prize is personal in nature and is always awarded to one person; repeated awarding of this type of State Prize to the same person is not permitted.

      The Russian State Prize for outstanding achievements in human rights and charitable activities was established in 2015. It is awarded in December[9].
      1. 0
        31 January 2025 20: 00
        Well, if there is one, it should be awarded instead of grants.
        1. 0
          31 January 2025 20: 17
          It should be awarded instead of grants.

          In theory, grant money is paid out in parts as reports are submitted at a predetermined time. A certain portion of the money goes toward purchasing equipment and materials. And the grant itself can only be received after submitting a detailed application for the desired work and confirming qualifications based on the results of previously completed work.
          Here is an example of a link to funding work
          The work was carried out within the framework of the state assignment of the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of the Russian Federation (topic No. 122030100145-3 Refined mathematical models of planar sensitive elements of nano and microelectromechanical sensors taking into account quantum effects, electrostatic forces, weak interaction forces and temperature effects).

          A state prize is an award, and a grant is payment for work that has been recognized as useful, including usefulness in acquiring new knowledge and patterns.
          1. 0
            31 January 2025 20: 26
            You need to pay a salary for the work. A bonus for the result.
  15. 0
    30 January 2025 20: 28
    It's all quite simple - in China, the customer is essentially a magazpaika between the state and private companies interested in profits from sales of promoted consumer goods and high-tech. China is increasing sales both through expansion and through extension - one can say that Chinese companies are very greedy for money, but at the moment they understand that competitors are breathing down their necks, and there is no money rain from the state, so, as they say, there is still a lot of work ahead - but gold is already glittering on the horizon.
    Unlike them, American large capitals exist in an already established, well-fed system, where they can already thoroughly drag and master, and competitors either sit quietly in their niches and also saw, or are thoroughly suppressed. Also in the USA, the factor of the bipartisan model is strong, when certain companies are on a short hand with the current administrations due to certain services, support for election campaigns, etc. In the PRC, this factor does not yet exist on such a scale, and because of this, the "bad boys" are slapped on the hands much more actively.

    In our case, everything is even simpler - we do NOT have a global-level high-tech manufacturer except for Rosatom. Those who drive resources or are engaged in local banking services - for them, such tools are almost a toy or, at best, a narrowly specialized tool. They are objectively not interested in building something commercial - they do NOT earn money on this and NOT with this.
    "Rosatom" could be interested in something like this, but it is a niche company focusing on the big stuff. If it made small stuff and produced it in millions of batches, it would probably be interested. But for business it doesn't really need this AI, and for design work it needs some highly specialized solutions.
    The state here SEEMS to want this, but firstly, there is objectively no one to put the responsibility on who would also be interested in this, and secondly, if you think about it, our state also doesn’t really understand WHAT kind of AI it needs and WHY.
    If in the case of the actively developing Chinese high-tech and industry, AI is needed to process huge amounts of data in order to save billions of dollars, if for the Americans AI is needed to maintain their "global superiority", then in our case WHY is it needed? To control the masses? The masses are controlled. To advance science? Why advance it if there is no large-scale interest in domestic technologies? To save money? And here is the most delicious moment - after all, these funds would have been saved due to the optimization of workers and bureaucracy. If in the first case this situation will spoil our unemployment statistics and cause unrest, then in the second case, hosts of bureaucrats of different levels understand perfectly well what such developments are fraught with. And, of course, they will drown them - actively or in Italian.
  16. -1
    31 January 2025 03: 39
    In order to have at least something in the modern world, a country that wants to have its own IT must have its own production of lithographs (not even modern ones, but ones lagging behind by at least 10-15 years), and they must not be in articles screaming that they have no analogues, but in series and hardware...
    Now we produce lithographs only for 8086 analogs, and these are from the 80s of the 20th century.
    What kind of AI can we talk about with such a base?
    1. 0
      31 January 2025 20: 39
      In order to have at least something in the modern world, a country that wants to have its own IT must have its own lithograph production


      Lithographs are not produced in the USA, for example, but they certainly have their own modern IT
      1. -1
        3 February 2025 15: 29
        Lithographs are not produced in the USA, for example, but they certainly have their own modern IT

        This is news, and the ASML company is apparently an exclusively Dutch enterprise, and not a holding that includes a hell of a lot of factories from the USA, and a board of directors that is managed exclusively from the States )))
        Well, with such unshakable logic, IT needs to be developed by you, dear author, personally.
        1. -1
          4 February 2025 18: 54
          Are you just saying this or have you at least checked your information?

          ASML is a mostly European company, founded in Holland, head office in Holland, CEO Dutchman Christophe Fouquet
          https://www.linkedin.com/in/christophe-fouquet-asml/details/experience/
          Now let's look at the members of the supervisory board, the so-called supervisory board:

          https://www.asml.com/en/company/governance/supervisory-board
          The chairman is Danish citizen Nils Andersen
          Vice-chairwoman is Danish citizen Annet Aris
          Of the remaining seven, only two are US citizens, the rest are Danes, Belgians, and Germans.
          1. +1
            6 February 2025 03: 29
            Are you just saying this or have you at least checked your information?

            Yes of course, how can you argue with Wikipedia )))

            Dutch chipmaker ASML has been forced to cancel deliveries to China after its licenses were partially revoked, BaigeNews.kz reports, citing Bloomberg.

            The ban was imposed at the request of the US administration of Joe Biden several weeks before the date of entry into force of the ban on the export of high-tech equipment.

            So ASML is a completely Dutch company for expensive hurray "patriots" because the opposite is not convenient
            1. 0
              6 February 2025 10: 32
              It’s good that we’ve sorted out your first incorrect thesis about the board of directors being managed from the US; as we’ve seen, the board of directors and managers are overwhelmingly European.
              As for sanctions, the US has also banned us, Russia, from supplying Superjets to Iran, but you won’t claim that Sukhoi managers are under direct control from the US.
    2. -1
      4 February 2025 01: 44
      spektr9 As if you are not telling the truth. 8086 is based on 3 micrometer technology, that is 3000 nm, and Mikron has a line at 90 nm.
      1. +1
        6 February 2025 03: 24
        spektr9 As if you are not telling the truth. 8086 is based on 3 micrometer technology, that is 3000 nm, and Mikron has a line at 90 nm.

        Are you talking about this line?
        In 2007, a major American chipmaker, Global Foundries, was switching to 300-mm wafers and was ready to supply equipment from ASML, a leading manufacturer of photolithographic machines, to Russia for the production of 90-nm chips on 200-mm wafers with full documentation. At that time, such equipment, of course, was not new - but still lagged behind the market leaders by only 3-4 years, which is great. But in reality, something went wrong, and the machines were stuck in Europe for years.
        Finally, in 2014, the equipment was delivered. At that time, TSMC was already fully exploiting the 20-nm process technology, so these 90-nm machines from 10 years ago looked pale, but still, it was something.
        However, a little later that year, Crimea happened, and there was no longer any hope of help from the Americans or Europeans.

        Well, what can I say, I have a purchased 90 nm line, there are no spare parts for the lithographs and it is getting covered in dust...
        Now a question for you, what's the lie , dear hurray "patriot"?
        1. 0
          8 February 2025 01: 54
          Well, okay, 90 nm doesn't work. What does? 200 nm? Still far, far from the 3000 nm Intel 8086, as you claim.
  17. 0
    31 January 2025 09: 16
    Quote: paul3390
    And the fact that one inevitably comes to the conclusion


    Listen... But only this AI brought this AI to the masses ))) Undoubtedly, someone will simplify and improve the product besides the developer, but to doubt the competence of the developer himself is simply nonsense ) Moreover, these Chinese are using the OPEN! source product, which is this very Open AI ))) Well, it's like Russian programmers cobbled together a "Russian" OS that has a couple of Russian applications ))) You just don't understand this.
  18. 0
    2 February 2025 08: 32
    The universal cry does not correspond to reality. As Ivan Oseledets said, the main drawback of our AI developments is the lack of advertising. Alas, but this is a national character trait.
  19. 0
    2 February 2025 10: 12
    While we, with the fervor of the Komsomol, since the 90s, in accordance with overseas manuals, smashed, threw away the Soviet legacy, and most importantly, destroyed the effective system of education and upbringing. While we were churning out useless rabble on the flow of managers, lawyers and so-called artists, advanced consumers, etc., the Chinese were cultivating creators, workers and engineers, creative individuals, highly qualified professionals, creating conditions for creation.
  20. +1
    2 February 2025 10: 45
    And yet about the scientific side of the issue! I am absolutely convinced that for a truly effective AI it is necessary to study the issues of mathematics and the issues of transition to multipolar logic of operation of electronic devices, tied to numbers of natural series. I do not even mention how much this increases the one-time process of data binding. At the same time, there is no proportional increase in energy costs and so on and so forth. And in this regard, even before the war and during the work of the Zvorykin project, we talked about replacing screws and propellers and in general all currently existing technologies and devices for converting flows of continuous media with a new technology and process algorithms. In simple terms, the new engine works fundamentally differently and is justifiably more effective and has a huge prospect for the future. BUT obviously in Russia there is no interest in scientific development of a fundamental level, and I do not have the strength to pound my forehead against the walls. I think this writing is my last breath!
  21. 0
    2 February 2025 12: 04
    It's time for some of the higher-ups to turn their faces to these problems. Why we have dropped to 10th place in patents is one thing, and their implementation is generally at a level of 3% of the declared ones. Those who are engaged in AI are not scientists recognized by all specialists in this field with an open carte blanche and direct access to the Supreme, but bankers, top managers, etc. Our liberals are still attacking Beria for the "sharashkas" before the war, but what should have been done at that time to eliminate the lag in aviation and other areas.
  22. -1
    2 February 2025 12: 29
    If Putin shouts about "digitalization", then this is not about the development of the country and the state, but about the establishment of a digital concentration camp, where development and growth are not really needed by anyone.
    1. 0
      2 February 2025 17: 19
      If Putin shouts about "digitalization",

      So he doesn’t shout, Putin NEVER SHOUTS.
      This is your drug addict screaming, but don’t worry, you’re already living in concentration camp 404.
  23. +2
    2 February 2025 17: 34
    Let's get to the point, without the blah blah from Messrs. Nenarokov and Mikhailov.
    The Chinese have made a very good nonsense generator, it significantly outperforms 4 GPT.
    We tested it for a week and are convinced of it.
    There is no way to verify the development budget, but the fact that it is less than the OAI budget sounds plausible. The main thing that this development has shown is that the trillion-dollar cluster promised by Musk and Trump is simply a gigantic scam, a mega-embezzlement.
    What does this mean for the Russian Federation? Nothing new, but this is another proof of the OBVIOUS, and at the same time very important obvious.

    1. Devastation in the minds: all this crying about the uncatchable lag not even of Russia but of the whole world from the USA in IT (because 5nm) is a lie, self-justification of idleness and an attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    2. Every business should be handled by specialists in that business. And IT is not showmen from engineering or science, not bankers and certainly not "effective managers".
    3. Almost no one in our country understands and does not want to understand what artificial intelligence is and how all systems like GPT work. Neither journalists, nor the authors of this article, nor officials, nor the population. Everyone wants to chatter and hype, but does not want to listen and understand.
  24. Rtu
    -1
    3 February 2025 13: 21
    "Optimization according to Chubais" continues. Naturally, there will be no scapegoats.
  25. 0
    5 February 2025 08: 30
    The future, in quotes, AI, will need such a powerful calculator (a large array of data and powerful processing of this data). This is an attachment to AI, without which this AI will have a hard time.
  26. 0
    11 February 2025 09: 15
    Our business has only one goal - money and everything for the sake of money. No topics about the prestige of the country or the technological race work. Sometimes you are surprised that a product from the USA can cost less than a Russian one, how is this even possible?