Military Review

The sleeping giant of Central Asia

88
The future development of events in Uzbekistan represents the greatest intrigue in the life of our region. What will happen in this very significant country, which occupies a central position in perhaps the most strategically important region of the planet with a population of almost 30 million people and the economy of the old Soviet type, remains a mystery to all observers, including representatives of the Uzbek leadership itself.


Today, Uzbekistan may begin the most difficult period in its modern stories. The question of what to do is facing any states and their elites, but for Tashkent this question is particularly relevant. Because Uzbekistan is one of the few remaining countries in the world, where for the most part direct government regulation of the economy remains. This country has not gone through market reforms in their classic terms. This circumstance is simply a statement of fact, which can be treated differently. Someone believes that the Uzbek authorities were able to preserve the inheritance inherited from the Soviet Union and cite Uzbekistan as an example and a possible alternative for Kazakhstan and other post-Soviet countries. Others, on the contrary, believe that Uzbeks are following the path of Cuba and Turkmenistan, trying to conserve the former Soviet system of full control over the economy and society, and that this will not lead to anything good.

But, in any case, one thing is certain that Uzbekistan is not integrated into the world economic system, as the vast majority of the rest of the world. He lives by his own rules, which represent a bizarre mixture of the Soviet planned economy and the spontaneous market. In this regard, there are two questions. First, how effective can the Uzbek model be in the modern world? Secondly, how long can its existence continue in conditions of actual isolation from the world economic system? Answers to these questions are very difficult, but extremely important, because without them it is difficult to answer another question - what is the near future of Uzbekistan and how can it affect the future of Kazakhstan?

Moments in history

Uzbekistan, without any doubt, occupies a key place in Central Asia. It includes almost all the historical territories of this region, from Khorezm in the west to Fergana in the east, from Tashkent in the north to Termez in the south. All other Central Asian republics are located on the periphery of the former regional historical center. It is quite characteristic that in doing so they control important areas on the borders with Uzbekistan, which objectively limits its ability to dominate.

For example, to the south of Tashkent, deep in Uzbekistan, is the Maktaral district of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan occupies part of the Fergana Valley with the main city of Osh, Tajikistan has control over Khojent in the southern part of the Fergana Valley, and the territory of Turkmenistan extends into the valley in the lower Amudarya in the vicinity of Khorezm.

Such a territorial location was the result of the policy of the central Soviet government, which did not want to allow the emergence in then Central Asia of a single state association - Turkestan. This idea was actively supported by representatives of the elites of all the numerous national groups in the region, including even Iranian-speaking Tajiks. Among the authors of the idea and its active supporters was, in particular, the Kazakh Turar Ryskulov. But for Moscow the appearance of such a union was undesirable. The Russian Bolsheviks did not want the extra autonomy of the national regions; they supported the centralization of power in the country. At the same time, they always supported the idea of ​​national autonomy, so it was not easy for them to explain to national elites why they oppose the same unified Turkestan or the independence of Georgia.

As a result, a truly Solomonic decision was made. Many ethnic groups throughout the territory of the former USSR, from Belarusians to Khanty and Mansi, received their national-state associations at various levels, but all power was completely concentrated in the hands of the political center in Moscow. National autonomy turned out to be decorative, but, in fact, it could not have been otherwise, given the imperial nature of Soviet statehood.

In particular, in Central Asia, a number of national republics were formed along the periphery of its historical center. In fact, they were opposed to the new republic - Uzbekistan. This republic was formally in the place of Turkestan, but had to build its identity not on a common Turkic basis, as supporters of the Turkestan idea had planned, but on the Uzbek ethnic basis. Such a decision radically changed the situation in the region. Firstly, competition between the republics naturally began, and since all power was in Moscow, there was competition, including for its attention, which guaranteed access to resources, which was important with their centralized distribution. Secondly, the tasks of nation-building in Uzbekistan demanded a focus on the formation of the Uzbek nation.

The last task was very difficult. Because until 1917, there were quite a few ethnic groups with their identity in the territory of Uzbekistan. In addition to Uzbeks proper, to which they usually attributed those who could identify themselves on a tribal basis (Yusi, Mingy, Kungrad, Mangit), many other Turkic groups also historically lived in Central Asia, and this does not include representatives of three major nations - Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and Turkmen. Among such groups were Locals and Karluks in Eastern Bukhara, Kurama in the Tashkent region, Kipchaks in the Fergana Valley, and many others. Pre-revolutionary censuses clearly demonstrated the entire palette of ethnic groups.

However, the most impressive part of the population were those who before the revolution were called Sarts. These were residents of the settled areas, some of them were Türkic-speaking, others were Iranian-speaking. Part of the Turkic-speaking people belonged to the fragments of various historical Turkic tribes, who had gone to early settlement and lost their tribal identity. The rest were Turkic descendants of the ancient Iranian-speaking population. In turn, the Iranian-language sarts were mainly preserved in the southern cities of Samarkand and Bukhara, although they were found throughout the territory of Central Asia. For the Sarts, despite their linguistic affiliation, there was a typical regional community in the place of residence in one or another oasis - Tashkent, Bukhara, etc.

In any case, the unification of all these groups as part of a single ethnos, which also occupied almost all the historically developed territories of Central Asia, including most of the shopping centers like Tashkent, Samarkand, Bukhara, Khiva and others, made Uzbekistan the most important country in the region. Obviously, it was precisely national-state construction that played a huge role in this.
Actually, this circumstance was the reason for the special place of the Uzbek republic in the USSR. By the way, that’s why in 1980-s, Moscow dealt a crushing blow to the Uzbek elite, starting the so-called “cotton business”. Because the excessive independence of Tashkent and its potential as a regional center could become dangerous, especially against the background of the beginning of the processes of political liberalization in the USSR.

After the end of the acute phase of the cotton business, its architect, the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan, Rafik Nyshanov, was transferred to Moscow, and Islam Karimov took his place. It is characteristic that in the same period Saparmurad Niyazov became the first secretary of Turkmenistan. Both new leaders had such a distinctive feature as Russian wives. It is difficult to get rid of the impression that this was a matter of loyalty. In Moscow, they could consider that this is an additional factor that increases the loyalty of newly appointed local leaders to it.

In addition, Karimov was a native of Samarkand, evil tongues in general still say that he is half Tajik. Like it or not, the Samarkand elite could not but be bilingual, considering the large number of Tajiks living in this ancient city. Naturally, this circumstance somewhat weakened the position of immigrants from Samarkand in the structure of the Uzbek establishment and theoretically increased the degree of their dependence on Moscow.

Obviously one thing, the Soviet party leadership, after all the purges in Uzbekistan that affected representatives of the establishment close to the former long-time leader Sharaf Rashidov, eventually brought to power a representative of the peripheral elite from Samarkand. Among the victims of the purges were many so-called "Tashkent" and "Dzhizak". Their influence was weakened, so no one interfered with Karimov, in fact.

It is important to pay attention to another circumstance. Before his appointment, Karimov worked as the head of the Uzbek State Planning Committee (Gosplan). Consequently, he, no doubt, like any other planner, was an adherent of the planned economy and was inclined towards a strict order. This circumstance played a role in further events. During the 1991 coup of the year, Karimov supported the Emergency Committee, but after his defeat, he began building an independent state.

Immediately after the collapse of the USSR

At the same time, Karimov initially had an extremely difficult situation. As early as the end of the 1980s, problems with spontaneous Islamic movements began in Uzbekistan, especially in the Fergana Valley. Here, in Adamat, the movement “Adolat” is formed, one of the leaders of which was Tahir Yuldashev, among the activists was Dzhumaba Khodjaev, later known as Juma Namangani. They later created the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU).

Initially, the creator of "Adolat" was a small businessman Abdulhakim Sattimov, who created a voluntary people's squad (DND) to protect his business from the racket that was widespread at that time. However, then the security structure quickly acquired a religious character, then Yuldashev became its leader, and the DND came to be called “Police Militia”. “Adolat” took businessmen under protection, received money for it, in principle from his side it was the same racket, and very quickly became an influential force in Namangan. Then his activists began to establish Sharia law in the city, smash shops with alcohol, whip pickpockets on the market, etc., in fact created here a parallel power. "Adolatovtsy" also burned the local prosecutor's office with all the cases against them.

By 1991, Adolat effectively took control of Namangan. On December 19, the town hall was seized and a mass rally was organized. Trying to resolve the situation, Karimov himself came to the city, but he had to go through unpleasant moments when Islamists in the square dictated his conditions to him. Surely this was a turning point in the ideology of the Uzbek leader. For him, it became fundamentally important to solve the problem of the coming chaos.

After the collapse of the USSR, when Karimov embarks on building an independent state, the situation becomes even more tense. In neighboring Tajikistan, a sharp confrontation between local regions leads to civil war. In Afghanistan, the Najibullah regime collapses in May on 1992, and various groups of Mujahideen come to power.
The peculiarity of the situation for Tashkent was that, quite unexpectedly, in both Tajikistan and Afghanistan, politically very active communities of ethnic Uzbeks were formed. In Tajikistan, these were Uzbek field commanders, the most famous of which was half Uzbek, the owner of Tursunzade and the local aluminum plant, Mahmud Khudoyberdiyev. In Northern Afghanistan, the Uzbek general Abdul Rashid Dostum became the most influential. For Uzbekistan, this was a new situation, and the authorities of this state from the very beginning of their independent existence were involved in political processes in neighboring countries.

Despite the fact that the state-building processes in Uzbekistan have just begun, and Tashkent did not have the appropriate institutions to conduct an active foreign policy, especially as specific as it was in Afghanistan and Tajikistan. It was impossible to forget about the difficult domestic political situation with the Islamists.

In January, 1992 held a presidential election in Uzbekistan, after which the authorities gradually began to take control of the situation in the country. Criminal proceedings were instituted against the activists of “Adolat”, as a result, many of them fled to Tajikistan, where the civil war broke out, as well as to Afghanistan. Accordingly, Tashkent was faced with the task of influencing the development of events in these countries in order to neutralize possible activity on the part of the exiled Uzbek Islamists.

In Afghanistan, the Uzbek authorities established mutually beneficial cooperation with Dostum, as a result of which they could be sure that there were no problems with their security in the Afghan territories controlled by them. The situation in Tajikistan was more complicated, the simple support of the Uzbek commanders did not solve the problem together.

If in Afghanistan relations with Dostum provided security at the border, in Tajikistan it was not enough to rely only on local ethnic Uzbeks. More profitable for Tashkent was the appearance in Dushanbe of a responsible central government. The threat of instability throughout the former Soviet Union was too significant. Interest in resolving the Tajik issue was the basis of Uzbekistan’s agreements with Russia, and this despite the fact that the liberal authorities in Moscow were inclined to refuse altogether from the burdensome presence in the Central Asian region. Nevertheless, the problem was very real, and the parties agreed. In May, the 1992 of the year in Tashkent signed a collective security agreement.

15 September 1992 of the year by order of the Ministry of Defense of Uzbekistan was sent to Tajikistan 15-I brigade of special forces of the GRU, which from the Uzbek Termez on 28 helicopters Mi-8 was deployed in Kurgan-Tyube. This brigade was withdrawn from Afghanistan to Uzbekistan in 1989 year and located in Chirchik. The personnel structure was completely Russian, there were practically no local recruits here. The decision on its use could not be made without the consent of Moscow. At least, the officers, most likely, would prefer to go to Russia than to participate in the war for the interests they do not understand.

A very telling story of General Chubarov, who at that time served in the 15 Brigade, about how he was appointed Deputy Minister of Defense of Tajikistan. Chubarov wrote that he was summoned by the Minister of Defense of Uzbekistan Rustam Akhmedov, while Russian Defense Minister Pavel Grachev was present at the meeting. “I didn’t have time to open my mouth, as Grachev told Akhmedov. Rustam, this officer is my hope and support in the region. ” The use of 15 and then 16 of the GRU special forces brigade from Uzbekistan played a decisive role in the Tajik events.

It is characteristic that the Uzbek special forces were clearly not enough for the scale of the civil war, because in Tajikistan itself, in the units of the 201 motorized rifle division, only a few Russian officers remained in the ranks. In particular, in the 191 motorized rifle regiment in Kurgan-Tube there were 50 officers and warrant officers who guarded the warehouses with weapons on 2,5 thousand soldiers. Therefore, on September 28, two weeks after the transfer of special forces from Uzbekistan, two more fully equipped special forces battalions from the Moscow Military District were sent to Tajikistan.

After the end of the acute phase of the Tajik conflict, external threats to Uzbekistan faded into the background and in Tashkent focused on internal problems. Here the tasks were no less ambitious.

Transition economy?

At the time of the collapse of the USSR, Uzbekistan had a good economic potential. It is also important that at his disposal were very significant export opportunities. First, it is cotton (up to 75 percent of currency earnings in 1997), secondly, gas from the Gazli fields, and thirdly, gold from the Zeravshan mining and smelting plant. The production of the latter amounted to 63 tons in the 1992 year. It was in Uzbekistan and a very large population with well developed trading skills - 21 million people in 1991 year. Recall that all the historical shopping centers of Central Asia were part of Uzbekistan. And it is important that, for the most part, it was a homogeneous population, so liberalization theoretically could not threaten interethnic conflicts, as happened in Transcaucasia and Moldova. Although the example of neighboring Tajikistan, where in the civil war the Garmians and the Pamirians agreed, on the one hand, and on the other, the Kulabians, Gissarians, Uzbeks and Leninabadians, could not but cause concern among the Uzbek authorities.

In general, Uzbekistan had all the opportunities for real regional leadership. Moreover, after 1992, politically independent Uzbek territories in Northern Afghanistan, as well as a number of field commanders in Tajikistan, the same Hudaiberdiyev from Tursunzade, depended on him. It already looked like a small regional empire with great potential. When all the other states in the region were engaged in solving domestic problems, Uzbekistan was the only one of all who immediately went to the regional level. With good relations with Russia, it was Uzbekistan that looked like the successor to the former USSR in the region.

And now, in this difficult situation, a subjective factor has affected - the role of the individual in history. President Karimov, being a native of the Soviet Gosplan, clearly did not believe in a market economy, he was wary of the risks associated with it. In addition, faced with the threat of the Islamists and watching from the side all the negative processes that took place in Tajikistan, he probably came to the conclusion that it is necessary to establish a strong power in the country in order to prevent chaos in the Tajik scenario.
Each separately, these ideas were quite natural for the situation of the beginning of the 1990-s, when the Soviet model of government collapsed. On the one hand, strong power, on the other - the preservation of the Soviet industrial potential. This idea would be signed by the majority of the population of the former USSR. But combined both ideas turned out to be an explosive mixture. Because Karimov decided not only to curtail the processes of political liberalization begun in the former USSR, but also to abandon economic liberalization.

In the end, many countries in the former USSR, soon after its collapse, moved away from liberal projects. In Kazakhstan, this happened in the middle of 1990's, in Russia at the beginning of 2000-x, in Tajikistan central authority dominated for quite a long time, even in Ukraine they refused to hand over power to parliament, which was one of the gains of the 2005 Orange Revolution of the year. But the liberalization of the economy, with all the problems associated with this process, was carried out in all these countries.
Today they are often called authoritarian, with the possible exception of Ukraine, they define at the same time different degrees of their rigidity, but Uzbekistan, also Turkmenistan, stands out from the general number by the unreformedness of its economy, the preservation of the old Soviet principles of total management of the economy and society. But rather, Russia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan can be called Bonapartist states, where a strong centralized power exists along with some important market institutions, such as private property.

This is a very important circumstance, because private property allows many in society to maintain personal independence from the state, even if they do not like its political course. What can not be said about states like Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, where dependence on the state is still great, because it controls almost all aspects of society, as it did in the former USSR.

So Karimov’s subjective decision turned out to be crucial for the development of Uzbekistan. It must be admitted that the results achieved by Tashkent against the general sad background of the collapse of the Soviet economy were, at first, quite impressive. For example, in 1997, Uzbekistan’s GDP in relation to 1990 amounted to 90 percent, whereas in Russia - 59, and in Kazakhstan 62 percent, and industrial output in relation to the same to 1990 in Uzbekistan - 112,7 percent. , in Russia - 51, in Georgia - 23 percent. And this is despite the fact that approximately for the same period of time in Uzbekistan in a number of industries there was a serious decline in production. For example, the production of mineral fertilizers fell from 1,7 mln. Tons to 0,9 mln. Tons, cement - from 6,9 mln. To 3,5 mln. Tons, production of machine tools decreased 10 times, chemical fibers and threads - from 49,3 to 6,9 thousand tons. Note that all this happened against the background of general growth in industrial production.

Naturally, at the end of the 1990 in the former USSR, Uzbekistan looked like an island of prosperity. It was he who was cited as an example of successful development by various intellectuals in both Russia and Kazakhstan. But we can not say about the price of the issue.
From the point of view of the planned economy, the Uzbek authorities tried to solve the most complex issues. Among the most important was food and fuel independence to get rid of imports. For example, in the early 1990-s from 700 million to 1 billion dollars were spent only on food imports, mainly grain. The reduction in imports made it possible to free the currency derived from the export of Uzbek goods for other important projects, mainly in industry.

In Uzbekistan, expanded the area of ​​crops for food grain. At the same time, the exploitation of many small oil fields, which were not developed in the USSR due to the unprofitability of the process, began. As a result, oil production increased from 2,8 million tons in 1991 to 7,6 million tons in 1995 year. Gas fields in Gazli allowed the country to provide energy. So Tashkent at the beginning of the 1990-s had little need for import supplies.

In addition, the lack of free currency conversion seriously restricted the import of consumer goods, which was typical of all countries undergoing market reforms. The absence of a free market did not allow small and medium-sized trading businesses that are focused on the services market to arise and strengthen. It should also be noted that the state retained a monopoly on the main export commodity - cotton. The main means of extracting the state profit was the purchase price. Cotton could be sold only to the state and at very low prices. At the same time, farmers were paid with local money - soums, and then sold to the world market for hard currency. In 1996, government procurement prices for raw cotton were at 26,6 percent. below the cost of production. There is evidence that the state in Uzbekistan bought a kilogram of cotton from dehkans for two cents. Margin for the state was enormous.

As a result of all these processes (reduction of oil and grain imports, trade monopoly on cotton), the Uzbek authorities have at their disposal very significant funds in hard currency. According to the logic of a planned economy, the funds were directed to the industrial modernization of the country. For example, already in the middle of 1990's, the Bukhara Refinery was built from scratch. But the most important project in Tashkent was a car, which was quite logical. Because it was impossible to establish the production of aircraft based on an aircraft factory in Tashkent. Cars, on the other hand, were the most common method for Asian countries to become industrialized. It was not by chance that a sample from South Korea was chosen for the Uzbek car, which, after Japan, was the second to achieve an economic recovery, including on the basis of the automotive industry.

However, the Uzbek automotive industry had its own characteristics. The most important thing is the very scheme of their production. For hard currency, Uzbeks bought ready-made vehicle kits in South Korea, then collected them and sold them mostly in the domestic market. The difficulty here was that, first, the vehicle sets had to be driven from Korea through the whole of Russia and Kazakhstan, which in itself contributed to higher production costs, and second, the lack of currency convertibility made it difficult to assess the economic efficiency of automobile production. The last circumstance was very important.

The cars themselves were in demand in Uzbekistan due to prohibitive duties on car imports. In addition, the general dissatisfaction with consumer demand in the country made the machines extremely in demand in the domestic market. However, it turned out that the state cheaply bought cotton from the peasants, sold it for currency, bought vehicle sets for this currency, made cars of them and sold it to people for non-convertible bags. Then it again had to buy car kits for the currency that the automobile plant could buy for the proceeds domestically at the preferential exchange rate. But the state itself could receive the currency for sale to the plant again only from the sale of cotton or gold.

In fact, it was the same import, but designed through the concept of the automotive industry. Thus, the state directed resources to meet only a certain part of domestic demand. In the normal situation of a market society, the demand would have a completely different structure. But the most important thing is that in the conditions of the market, the cost of production of cars in Uzbekistan would be clear and what is the added value of this production.

For example, at the end of the XIX century in Afghanistan, Emir Abdurakhman established the production of European artillery guns. However, the cost of their production was three to four times the price at which they could be bought on the market. Everything would be fine, after all, production, but the emir received funds for it from the country's internal incomes.

It is very significant how the production of cars in Uzbekistan depended on foreign economic conditions. In 1997, 64,9 thousand cars were assembled, in 1998 - 54,4 thousand, in 1999 - 58,3 thousand, and in 2000 - only 31,3 thousand. Recall that the Asian crisis begins in 1997, it applies to Russia, prices for oil and other raw materials fall to a minimum. Then gold was worth less than 1998 dollars per ounce, and oil only 300 – 10 dollars per barrel. Uzbekistan did not have much of its oil, but the general state of the global economy also led to a fall in cotton prices. Naturally, the currency at the disposal of Tashkent has become less, including for the production of cars, which automatically affected the volumes of their production.

After the well-known tragic events of 11 September 2001, Uzbekistan began to focus on the United States. One of the consequences of this step in the field of economics was his attempt to carry out a partial currency conversion in 2002. The Americans put pressure on Tashkent on this issue. However, nothing came of this attempt, and the process was curtailed, different exchange rates remained in the country, and access to conversion for private companies was still very difficult.
It is possible that the main reason for refusing to introduce a free currency conversion regime was that Tashkent could not cope with the sharply increased demand for it. The huge unsatisfied demand of the population and the private sector threatened leaching of foreign exchange reserves. The markets of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan acted almost like a pump, pulling currency out of Uzbekistan, which was not enough anyway.

The classical situation of the late USSR times was repeated. The introduction of free currency conversion in a non-market economy and the presence of unsatisfied demand, which is fueled by a large accumulated and at the same time unsecured money supply, leads to the leaching of currency. This puts the state in front of difficult choices, either to liberalize prices and accept shock therapy, or, within the framework of the current model, to find sources of currency for actual financing of consumer demand. But the latter option would mean a reduction in foreign currency expenditures on production projects, in particular, on the same automotive industry.

At the same time, Tashkent could not agree with shock therapy, which would mean losing control over economic processes, facing discontent among the population. In addition, the presence of neighbors who have undergone market reforms in the vicinity of Uzbekistan meant that businessmen from these countries would inevitably play a large role in the newly opened Uzbek markets. Firstly, due to accumulated experience, and secondly, due to the availability of free monetary resources.

Therefore, Uzbekistan did not have much choice, and the policy of free currency conversion was curtailed by it. The unsuccessful attempt to liberalize the currency exchange clearly demonstrated a shocking thing for the Uzbek elite. After the collapse of the USSR, the historical territories belonging to Uzbekistan lost the status of the economic center of the region. Because for such a status it is very important to dominate the regional trade markets, which historically has been characteristic of merchants from Bukhara, Samarkand, Khiva and Tashkent. Now, all these urban centers were unable to compete in trade with the former peripheral territories of Central Asia. Because they are in a state of artificial isolation from the generally accepted standards on which the world trading system operates. Relatively freely convertible currency is one such obvious standard.

But the most important consequence of the course chosen by Tashkent at the beginning of the 1990-ies was the transfer of the financial and economic center of the Central Asian region from its old cities to the steppes of modern Kazakhstan. It was a real revolution, for the first time in the last two or three thousand years, such a center turned out to be outside the region’s historical core. The main cash flows and the associated main routes for the movement of goods now pass by Uzbekistan and its trading cities with a glorious history.

After refusing to liberalize exchange rates, the state of affairs was very uncertain. However, in the 2005 year, there were regular shocks that changed the external economic situation for Tashkent. Due to the negative perception in the West of the well-known tragic events in Andijan, Tashkent has changed the vector of its foreign policy orientation from the United States to Russia.

To a certain extent, Andijan-2005 contributed to enhancing the conservation of the Uzbek socio-economic model. Because these events clearly demonstrated to the country's authorities that the discontent of a group of local entrepreneurs (in Andijan it was the so-called “Akromiya” group of local businessmen, whose representatives started a revolt after the arrest of a number of their representatives) is quite capable of developing into an open rebellion against the authorities. Therefore, it was logical to conclude from here that it is necessary to strengthen control over the business too. Naturally, no economic liberalization, the result of which would be the inevitable emergence of a stratum of prosperous entrepreneurs, was never spoken after Uzbekistan in Andijan.

At that very moment Tashkent was frankly lucky. From the middle of the two thousandth, the external economic conjuncture gradually changed in favor of Uzbekistan. Cotton prices increased, and some Uzbek gas (about 8 billion cubic meters) began to be supplied to the Russian gas pipeline system, which provided an additional inflow of currency to the country. Even at the preferential price at which Uzbek gas was supplied to Gazprom (up to 100 dollars per thousand cubic meters), Tashkent still received significant amounts of foreign currency (up to 700 million dollars a year). In addition, Uzbek cars could be supplied to the Russian market, which gave the entire automobile production scheme an additional currency basis. That is, some of the cars were sold in Russia for currency, which removed the load from the Uzbek state. Less was needed currency for the purchase of vehicle sets from the company General Motors, the successor of the Uzbek Daewoo.

But the most important thing is that the economic boom in Russia and partly in Kazakhstan contributed to the outflow of much of the extra labor force from Uzbekistan. In this country, and so high rates of population growth, about 500 thousand people a year, the Soviet-type economy is not able to create so many new jobs. Usually in countries with market economies, small-scale and medium-sized businesses provide significant employment, especially in the market for services. It is the market of services that also forms a significant share of GDP (up to 50 percent). Therefore, in fact, Uzbekistan has such a low GDP in comparison with Kazakhstan or Russia. In the first quarter of 2012, it amounted to 6,1 billion dollars at the real exchange rate. This is 24 billion on an annualized basis, or about 800 dollars per capita. For example, in Kazakhstan on the basis of 2012, the nominal GDP will be 200 billion dollars with a smaller population.
The departure of the population to earn money, on the one hand, allowed them to take on extra workers, on the other hand, ensured the inflow of currency into the country through the transfer of Uzbek guest workers to their families. For example, in the first half of 2012, 2,1 billion dollars was sent from Russia to Uzbekistan.

However, in the middle of 2012, Uzbekistan once again made a sharp turn in its foreign policy, he left the CSTO, which spoiled relations with Russia. In this situation, it is very important for Tashkent to smooth out the negative effect of this step. Because sending him guest workers to Russia today is of critical importance to him. If Moscow suddenly introduces a visa regime or puts pressure on a couple of millions of Uzbek citizens in Russia to return home, this will have dire consequences for Tashkent. We must not forget also about the transit of goods, which passes through Russian territory.

Of course, the fact that cotton prices before the start of 2012 have been very high lately has helped the Uzbek authorities lately. According to the forecast, in 2012, the average annual price will fall by 2011 percent compared to 40 in the year. According to the 2013 year forecast, the price will be 0,7 dollars per pound (1,5 dollars per kilogram). When exporting 2,6 million tons of cotton (75 percent of the production in 3,5 million tons), this will provide the Uzbek state to 4 billion dollars in revenue. Approximately another 3 billion dollars at current prices are worth annual 60 tons of gold from Zerafshan. There are also gas supplies to China.

So, the Uzbek economy has some reserves that allow keeping the system unchanged, including producing cars. In January-May, 2012 of the year Uzbekistan sold only 32 thousand cars on the Russian market. In September, he announced the release of the model "Chevrolet Cobalt." Under the plan, 60 thousand cars from 120 thousand will be sold in the CIS, that is, mainly in Russia. Exports can partially solve the problem of currency for the purchase of vehicle kits, as well as partial localization, but still the state has to finance automobile production at the expense of foreign exchange earnings mainly from cotton exports.

It is also worth noting that the main problems of the economy of Uzbekistan are now connected with the failure of plans to achieve oil and food independence. Especially great difficulties with the production of oil. From 7,6 mln. Tons in 1995, its production in 2011 fell to 1,5 mln. Tons. This is directly related to the fact that Uzbek oil workers developed many small oil fields, which were declared unprofitable in the years of the USSR. The only large Kokdumalak field in 1990-ies suffered from watering and depletion of reserves.

The problem here is that if you buy oil at current world prices, then to cover the deficit of 6 million tons from the level of 1990's, you need to spend about 4 billion dollars. That is all the proceeds from cotton. But over the past ten years, the number of cars in Uzbekistan has greatly increased, so 7 million tons is probably not enough for domestic consumption. Thus, although the state of affairs does not look particularly critical, Tashkent is in principle capable of maintaining the current state, but on the whole its situation resembles that of the former USSR. As long as central authorities can control everything in the country, they will be able to control consumer demand and, therefore, direct resources, including the implementation of industrial projects. But, as well as for the late USSR, it is critically important for modern Uzbekistan to receive volumes of currency. So, there is no reason to believe that the authorities in Tashkent will abandon their common state monopoly, on cotton, on foreign trade and everything else.

The problem may arise in the event that a sudden fall in foreign exchange earnings from external sources. This is unlikely, but it is possible in a situation if cotton prices suddenly fall and oil and grain grows, if all the migrant workers return to the country at one moment and Uzbekistan suddenly finds itself in a transport blockade for some reason. But that would be an incredible development.

In the end, Uzbekistan can always help the same World Bank or the IMF. The current foreign policy of Tashkent gives reason to think so. In general, it is interesting that the change of orientation by the Uzbeks from Russia to the USA may also have an economic background. First, Uzbeks can make money by withdrawing troops from Afghanistan before the 2014 year. If they leave in their territory the military equipment of the troops of the international coalition, and these are tens of thousands of units, then the payment for this will certainly be very substantial. Secondly, Tashkent will continue to earn money on supplies to Afghanistan of electricity, food, on the implementation of various projects, such as the construction of the Termez-Mazar-i-Sharif railway. Third, Uzbekistan may, in the future, in the case of the implementation of the American program “New Silk Road”, expect to open a transport route to the south, to the ports of the Arabian Sea. Theoretically, for him it is the shortest way to foreign markets.

Of course, the Uzbek model looks like an anachronism of our time, but the local elite has no other way. They have missed the time for market reforms and now must continue what they have begun - to build state capitalism with a strong centralization of power.

Great maneuvers

If from an economic point of view, everything is approximately understandable, especially with regard to the price situation for cotton and gold, oil and grain, then from a political point of view, everything is much more complicated.

Coming out of the CSTO this summer, Tashkent not only mixed the main foreign policy maps in our region, but also seriously changed the emphasis in its domestic policy. The point here is that the previous course of predominant orientation towards Russia also assumed that its opinion should be taken into account in the event of a change of government in Uzbekistan.

In the last year, several signals came to the outside world from Uzbekistan, which indicated that in this country some serious changes were taking place in the ruling elite. Obviously, it is worth paying attention to changes in the system of organization of power in 2010. Now the parliament will approve the head of government.

Usually in the eastern states with a centralized vertical of power, such changes occur at a time when the authorities intend to go for partial liberalization either under public pressure or in connection with plans to reform from above. But in Uzbekistan there can be no talk of any kind of public pressure, and no one is going to carry out reforms from above. Otherwise, it would be more logical to start with economic reforms, and not with a change in the political configuration.

From this we can conclude that the changes are connected with the arisen need to settle relations among the elites. This is very similar not to the situation in China. Local Prime Minister Wen Jiabao has raised the issue of the need for liberalization several times in recent years. For him and his supporters, the point was that after the change of power that happens this fall, they would thus be able to maintain their positions in power. Because after the arrival of the new man in the place of the head of the PRC, Hu Jintao, with all his full power, their position will inevitably deteriorate. Carrying out partial liberalization will, firstly, weaken the vertical of power, it will cease to be dangerous for elite groups, and secondly, it opens up broad opportunities for such groups to influence the situation in the country with the help of accumulated resources.

Therefore, it can be assumed that the Uzbek idea of ​​separating the government and parliament can also be linked to the idea of ​​ensuring the balance of the forces of local clans. But this may be necessary only in the event of a quick change of power and a desire to avoid a subsequent struggle for individual power between the clans.

It is difficult to say how true this assumption is. But some movements in power in Uzbekistan are clearly taking place. What is worth only the adoption of the law on the inviolability of the results of the privatization. Why took it right now.

If we agree that such a development of events may take place, then we can try to explain some moments in the recent Uzbek politics.
For example, why do we need such a tough conflict with Tajikistan. The Uzbek position on the construction of a hydropower plant in Rogun is quite understandable, because in the case of its hypothetically probable destruction, water may demolish all villages downstream. In addition, Tajiks will pass water in the winter to generate electricity, while Uzbekistan needs it in summer during irrigation. All this, of course, makes Tashkent nervous. But the conflict is still very tough, with loud statements from both sides.

Moreover, the Uzbeks cannot change the situation. Even leaving the CSTO does not untie their hands, does not allow simply to block the supply of goods for Tajikistan. Because in this case, Russia, which, in fact, is building Rogun, in turn, will block the delivery of goods to Uzbekistan and may even introduce a visa regime. The threat of war should also not be taken seriously. By and large, Tashkent in the current situation is not able to influence the construction of hydroelectric power plants upstream of the main rivers of Central Asia.

Then why might such rhetoric be needed? The meaning here may lie precisely in domestic policy. People in power who are close to Karimov are called “Samarkands”. It has already been mentioned above that many consider the Uzbek president himself to be half Tajik. Undoubtedly, suspicions of Tajik origin or sympathy for the neighbors can be a powerful argument in the political struggle directed against the people of Karimov - people from Samarkand.

In this situation, the harsh rhetoric of Tashkent, and therefore the “Samarkands,” in relation to Tajikistan, is likely to emphasize their special commitment to the interests of Uzbekistan. And since this conflict cannot escalate, for example, into a real war, it will end sooner or later. You cannot maintain a degree of tension for too long. Consequently, he is needed right now, which may be another indirect evidence of the approaching moment of the beginning of the struggle of the Uzbek clans for power.

The withdrawal from the CSTO in this context is also very symbolic. Because an orientation toward Russia would mean the need to take into account its opinion on the issue of a possible change of power. And here the subtlety of the situation lies in the fact that Moscow has its clear favorites in the Uzbek political issue. Such an undoubted favorite is the Russian oligarch Alisher Usmonov, whose father was the prosecutor of Tashkent in Soviet times.

Usmonov is a particularly confidant of the Kremlin. In addition to participating in sensitive business issues, in particular with Gazprom, he is also the owner of an influential publishing company Kommersant. The latter circumstance distinguishes him from a number of Russian businessmen, because not everyone can be trusted with Kommersant. In Russia, there is another oligarch of Uzbek origin, Iskandar Makhmudov, but its importance is not so great. Usmonov more powerful figure. At the very end of September of this year, he announced that he was transferring all of his assets into a separate holding and was being removed from business. There is a lot of talk in Russia that this may be related to the state of his health, but maybe he has just other plans. In any case, the Uzbek oligarchs in Russia have not only money, but also vast capitalist experience. In addition, they are loyal to Moscow.

In this situation, it would be illogical for Russia to not use their potential to participate in the future of Uzbekistan. It is possible that such plans existed. If this is true, then “Samarkands” would have to make room, for example, in favor of “Tashkentites” or someone else. Probably, this did not suit Karimov and his people.

Another change in the foreign policy of Tashkent means that the current Uzbek authorities do not want to look back on Moscow, including in the hypothetically possible issue of a change of government.

What will happen with the Uzbek state further, we cannot know, but one thing is clear, the sleeping giant of Central Asia can wake up once. If market reforms begin in Uzbekistan, the state will no longer control its large population in the Soviet spirit. If Russia introduces visa restrictions for Uzbek guest workers, they will return home and will look for new employment options. In all these cases, Kazakhstan will face a large number of migrants, legal and not so much. This can change the picture in our country.

In general, it is beneficial for us to maintain the status quo of our southern neighbors. But the danger of the situation lies in the fact that it is impossible to preserve Soviet-style state capitalism indefinitely in one particular country. Karimov is doing well, but no one can say today what his successors will do.
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  1. Rustiger
    Rustiger 23 March 2013 12: 10 New
    23
    "the sleeping giant of Central Asia may one day wake up."

    Well, this is with a sooo oooooooom stretch. I can also write a whole article about "subjects of the GREAT GIANT.
    I have been "training" Uzbeks at construction sites for five years now, and this is what I managed to find out.
    As was the case under the alliance - on the outskirts of the capital of Tashkent, children were not sent to school, and now - they are not being sent en masse. Not to mention other cities and other settlements.
    So literate children are mainly only in the city center.
    After the USSR, the language was transferred from Cyrillic to Latin, and now the Uzbeks who studied the Cyrillic alphabet are also illiterate - they can hardly read anything. An acquaintance - Russian - read this Latin alphabet to them, so that they would translate it by ear.
    So there is no cultural continuity - all the Soviet backlog of literate adults has been transferred to the category of illiterate. Added to this is the "Ukrainian" word-creation: there was an airport - it became a field covered with birds, something like "gurbungals". So those of the locals, who are accustomed to one name, are no longer able to associate the subject with a new name.
    Reduced Russian classes in schools, removed teaching in Russian from universities. And the kids are already taught anyhow. And before the collapse of the USSR, the teachers were mostly Russians, and now who teaches, who is able to learn from them, so that later they can teach? Perhaps there were some Russian teachers who were born and raised there, who have nowhere else relatives and who have nowhere to leave - they eke out a miserable existence for a meager salary. Is it worse or better than what Putin would offer them as a pension? Apparently the same order of poverty.
    The last 2 grades were removed from schools - instead, children go to vocational schools (???). Best case scenario. If you do not immediately "work" on Russian construction sites. Because some do not even go to free schools, and instead of school they carry bags in the market. And there are those third and subsequent children in families who are not given by the state to study at school for free - this is such a measure to limit the birth rate, along with the non-issuance of a meager allowance. I believe that those whose first 2 children do not go to school, there is no reason not to have a dozen more.
    The state of Uzbekistan breeds poverty and illiteracy.
    1. Fox
      Fox 23 March 2013 15: 15 New
      11
      Quote: Rustiger
      Well, this is with a sooo ooogrooom stretch

      +++++++++++++++++++++. I’ll add, my friend, an Uzbek (made in the USSR), having read the article, I would say that the author lives in some other Uzbekistan ... and the fact that they cannot recruit people to special facilities (as recognized by the fighters) does not write about this because of health problems (polls), can we have two different Uzbekistan on the globe?
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 23 March 2013 17: 33 New
        +7
        fox "my, Uzbek (made in the USSR), after reading the article, I would say that the author lives in some other Uzbekistan ... but the fact that they cannot recruit people for the specialty (according to the fighters)."
        My sidekick was persuaded to serve in the presidential guard. He grew up there and moved to Russia in 2005. Now he works and says what I did there ... they’re recruiting Russian-speaking hehe in the guard .. they don’t believe theirs or will sell or run away.
        Akayev in Kyrgyzstan did not trust his cadres either ... and not in vain. My friend served in his guard, says Akayev’s wife, asking the Russians not to leave in the early 90s when the collapse came.
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 23 New
        +5
        Lis, the author does not say that Uzbekistan is a sleeping "military giant", he speaks about the economic potential of this country.
        1. tm70-71
          tm70-71 23 March 2013 21: 34 New
          +1
          The author put a minus. To call Uzbek "Sart" is how to call a Kirghiz or a Kazakh -Churkoy. Uzbekistan is not a mono-ethnic state, Bukhara and Samarkand Uzbeks consider themselves Tajiks, here, as they say, a time bomb is buried.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 05 New
            +5
            And where to go, if until the 20s of the 20th century, they called themselves that - Sarts. They were given the name Uzbeks less than a hundred years ago. For the Sarts, this is not an insult, it is a self-name. For Kazakhs, "Uzbek" is his own nomadic brother who drinks kumis, eats horse meat and constantly fights. Who is to blame for the fact that the Soviet government called the Sarts "Uzbeks", although the Sarts have a very indirect relationship to the Turks? An old Kazakh proverb "Ozbek - oz agam, al sart - sadagam" ("Uzbek is my elder brother, and sart is my prey"). We were ONE people with real Uzbek nomads, until the sultans Janibek and Kerey quarreled with Khan Abulkhaiyr and separated from him. And the sarts are nobody for us. And it is very difficult to call a bearded merchant an "Uzbek", because the Uzbeks are our brothers, and the Sarts have nothing to do with it.
            1. tm70-71
              tm70-71 24 March 2013 07: 02 New
              +1
              And you call it "Sart", I would really like to see it! In Russian, the word "bl ... t" is also kind of literary, and even a few centuries ago it had nothing to do with those to whom it now has.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 08: 04 New
                +4
                I constantly say this in communication with them. The truth is in an ironic and friendly tone. It would never even occur to me to offend someone live without a reason. And not a single Uzbek has yet taken offense at my address "Sart".
                1. tm70-71
                  tm70-71 24 March 2013 10: 26 New
                  +4
                  I don’t know how you have in Kazakhstan, if you call an Uzbek or a Uighur a Sart, you will insult him. A Sart is humiliating and insulting, it’s like a trader who sells his mother for money, it’s like to call a Jew a Jew. However, you have tolerant Uzbeks , or it’s already so far from their roots. The Uzbek lives in the mahal, that's all, there are kindred and friendly ties with the whole mahal, there he will have an ashar (all together) and he will build a house, he has work there, and there’s his own code honor, your way. A stranger does not belong there, hence the contradictions with other nationalities. A stranger to the Uzbek never the other is not only business otnosheniya.Dlya me closer and dearer Kyrgyz, they ask, do not malice that, kind-hearted, too many minuses course
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 11: 59 New
                    +5
                    Mahal - yes, very interesting phenomenon in the region, characteristic only for them.
                    and the Kyrgyz are really simple as five kopecks, good-natured (but if you start it, it will shove like a tank), open. in short, our people) but damn it, how the stories begin to tell that all the Turks descended from the Kyrgyz - trubaaaa ... there will be no complete winter.
                    and so, when I meet with a Kyrgyz somewhere, I always automatically tune in to a positive conversation and business. Kazakhs and Kyrgyz have a saying "Cossack, Kyrgyz - bir tugan", i.e. "Kazakh and Kirghiz are co-brothers". True, some Kazakhs, who five minutes ago became three kopecks richer than the Kyrgyz, sometimes migrate to Kyrgyzstan, behaving like "the king of Cambodia." From dirt to Kings. It is right that the Kyrgyz do that sometimes such unfortunate Kazakhs are beaten in the Issyk-Kul. Smarter will be.
                    1. tm70-71
                      tm70-71 24 March 2013 15: 54 New
                      0
                      WHAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, WAS IN THE MORNING WAS AN ELDER, SCHA ALREADY SERIOUS, WHAT SUCH FOR HAT?
                2. tm70-71
                  tm70-71 24 March 2013 10: 29 New
                  0
                  I don’t know how you have in Kazakhstan, if you call an Uzbek or a Uighur a Sart, you will insult him. A Sart is humiliating and insulting, it’s like a trader who sells his mother for money, it’s like to call a Jew a Jew. However, you have tolerant Uzbeks , or it’s already so far from their roots. The Uzbek lives in the mahal, that's all, there are kindred and friendly ties with the whole mahal, there he will have an ashar (all together) and he will build a house, he has work there, and there’s his own code honor, your way. A stranger does not belong there, hence the contradictions with other nationalities. A stranger to the Uzbek never the other is not only business otnosheniya.Dlya me closer and dearer Kyrgyz, they ask, do not malice that, kind-hearted, too many minuses course
        2. ughhh
          ughhh 24 March 2013 03: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Lis, the author does not say that Uzbekistan is a sleeping "military giant", he speaks about the economic potential of this country.

          The Uzbeks do not want, do not know how and will not realize these your economic potentials. They didn’t even see the toilet ... Let us call it mentality.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 08: 05 New
            +3
            Well, the toilet and many village in Russia and in the KZ did not see. We will call this the historical features of the rural way of life of the USSR.
      3. andrejwz
        andrejwz 24 March 2013 00: 24 New
        +4
        / B]
        Quote: Fox
        Having read the article, I would say that the author lives in some other Uzbekistan.

        [b] In all these cases, Kazakhstan will face a large number of migrants, legal and not very. It can change the picture. in our country. [
        After reading the article, I would say that the author lives in Kazakhstan.
      4. Natalia777
        Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 45 New
        0
        Absolutely chtoli fucked so lie? What nafig drugs? 20 years of the term is given to the merchants and the narcotics themselves are sentenced from 1 year to 2x - for consumption. There were practically no heroin addicts - in drug treatment hospitals - empty. There is someone hooked on medicines from pharmacies and drunks. And the proof is a population growth of 88% over 25 years.
    2. densyaophyng
      densyaophyng 23 March 2013 23: 49 New
      0


      Turks work no no mind no dollar no eat no clothes no
    3. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 06: 23 New
      0
      Citizen, why lie like that ?! I was born and live in Uzbekistan. Education of children in Uzbekistan is given great attention in practice. In particular, hundreds of schools and colleges have been built throughout Uzbekistan, including the most remote areas. For this, systematically, from the first years of the collapse of the USSR, enormous funds and targeted financing of the EBRD and IDB banks and the Uzbek School Fund are allocated - there is a special tax on enterprises - a school tax. The required number of schools are built in each region, city, district. The scale is enormous. It is impossible to avoid learning at school - this is the educational work. Schools are crowded and classes go in 2 shifts. A lot of children will be born - at least 4 children. Children do not participate in the harvesting of cotton and fruits - it is prohibited by the official law and criminal liability is provided. The teaching methods in schools remained Soviet and introduced chess lessons, and a new subject .- called "Sense of Homeland." There are big problems with teaching Uzbeks in Russian - such Russian-language schools are sorely lacking. Many Uzbeks, even in remote areas, want their children to study in Russian. A bribe for admission to a Russian-language school is $ 500. Russian-language schools are not enough due to the lack of Russian-speaking teachers. You are also not fully informed about the meager salary. Salary corresponds to the price level and allows you to live, eat and pay a communal apartment. In Russia, for example, an apartment in Moscow is very expensive, and in Tashkent you can buy a kopeck piece for 15 thousand dollars. Lunch (glutton) for lunch is worth $ 2. And so in many ways - fruits and vegetables are very cheap. The population growth is very high - over 25 years the population has added 68%. It is impossible to provide everyone with work at such a pace. In the regions, all Uzbeks keep the economy - hundreds of sheep, etc. It gives a good income. Are you lying? Do you want hostility between the Russian Federation and Uzbekistan? - DO NOT WAIT!
  2. avt
    avt 23 March 2013 15: 08 New
    +1
    laughing The sleeping giant is strong! good laughing Here is how after such a headline seriously commented on. Well, if only in terms of migrant workers and illegal migration request Perhaps, taking into account the throwing of Karimov and the policy of the Naglo-Saxons, this giant will not wake up and will bend, leaving us a lot of problems. And again, the Russian "colonialists" will rake the impudent results of democratization under the angry shouts of local nationalists. This is how the Turkmenbashi turned out to be smarter than all the post-Soviet buys. So he bridled and prepared a successor. Yes, and in relations with Russia he behaved so carefully, without much tension ...
    1. NEMO
      NEMO 23 March 2013 21: 52 New
      +6
      Quote: avt
      The sleeping giant is strong! Here is how after such a headline seriously commented on. Well, if only in terms of migrant workers and illegal migration

      Let me disagree with you, on the basis that I have lived in this country for almost 10 years. In your comment, you can see the "imperial" manners without taking into account the real situation, must notWithout delving into the essence of the relationship, to think like you, "guest-workers" is a problem, no one argues in Uzbekistan either, but your approach is absolutely unacceptable !!! Uzbekistan, in fact, is the most advanced country in Central Asia, if we lose it, others will follow the chain, it has much closer relations with Kazakhstan (for example) than ours, and if you don’t know somewhere, at least the general situation things, you'd better not comment:
      Quote: avt
      Here is how after such a headline seriously commented on. Well, if only in terms of migrant workers and illegal migration

      PS Before this of your comment, for the most part, I agreed with you. But Uzbekistan is indeed, for Central Asia - a sleeping giant, and it is very important for our country on whose side it wakes up !!!
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 08 New
        +1
        NEMO
        I had a lot of relatives living in Uzbekistan (Tashkent, Chirchik). Everyone has already moved to Kazakhstan after 1991, but they miss home terribly. My aunt (a Kazakh woman) frankly says that if an Uzbek "Nazarbayev" appears there, which will give people a normal life, she will come back the same day.
      2. avt
        avt 23 March 2013 22: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: NEMO
        Let me disagree with you, on the basis that I have lived in this country for almost 10 years. In your commentary, one can see the "imperial" manners without taking into account the real situation, it is impossible, without delving into the essence of the relationship, to think like you, "guest workers" - this is a problem, no one argues in Uzbekistan, but your approach is absolutely unacceptable !!! Uzbekistan, in fact, is the most advanced country in Central Asia, if we lose it, others will follow the chain, it has much closer relations with Kazakhstan (for example) than ours, and if you don’t know somewhere, at least the general situation things, you'd better not comment:

        And why imperial manners in quotation marks? I believe that Russia was formed and existed as an Empire, and as an Empire that made it possible for all national elites to rise to any level, especially in the USSR. Now, in fact, after 1991, new mono-ethnic states have formed, and often they build their entire policy on the denial of their previous cohabitation in the Empire. It is their choice to live. But their requests in the political arena often exceed their capabilities. Someone more cunning, like Turkmenbashi and Lukashenko, quite competently defends their interests, but someone carries as Saakashvili. But the USSR has died, all the same, there is no socialism in the territory of the former USSR. Capitalism, business and nothing personal. And fears that others will leave us in the chain - this horror story worked well in the early 90s. Now there are completely different threats, and believe me, there is simply no time to scratch someone behind the ear. And all these quasi-state entities such as the CIS, SCO, CSTO are a loss of time, here either we are saved together or the free will of a saved paradise. They don’t want - do not. An example of this is Ukraine. Than to spend time on senseless persuasions it is better to be engaged in real business. For example, with China, everything is clear and understandable, without tantrums. As evidenced by the arrival of a new leader. Well, with regards to the fact that Uzbekistan wakes up, there is another question. And if he wakes up, what foot will he get up from? That’s why I, especially in the light of Clintonih’s remarks regarding the prevention of the building of a new USSR, seems to be getting up like Kyrgyzstan, Getting up and falling. And believe me, this does not please me. Especially if blood spills. But the campaign for this is coming and the first bell has already rung there.
      3. avt
        avt 23 March 2013 23: 01 New
        +3
        Quote: NEMO
        Prior to this your comment, for the most part, I agreed with you.

        request And it’s good that I don’t agree with all my statements, I’m not the last resort, I can make mistakes and always try, as far as possible, to understand someone else’s reasoned opinion. hi
        1. NEMO
          NEMO 24 March 2013 20: 38 New
          0
          [quote = avt] I could be wrong, and I always try, as far as possible, to understand someone else's reasoned opinion.
          [/ quote
          You must first understand the essence of the problem. YOU have anything to do with the Airborne Forces,
          WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT OPERATIONAL MANAGEMENT ????
          1. avt
            avt 24 March 2013 20: 53 New
            +3
            Quote: NEMO
            You must first understand the essence of the problem. YOU have anything to do with the Airborne Forces,
            WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT OPERATIONAL MANAGEMENT ????

            And what about this? Airborne with which side and even here? request It’s like Central Asia requestAnd I don’t remember when and where I talked about operational management.
    2. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 49 New
      0
      You don’t know anything about Uzbekistan and are talking nonsense here. You live in a fictional world full of shit and continue in the same spirit. You are a swamp liberalist - that’s why you spoof and lie.
  3. Iraclius
    Iraclius 23 March 2013 15: 56 New
    +6
    The author is a patriot of his country and this can be seen. The article put a plus for a detailed account of the history of the formation of Uzbekistan as an independent state.
    As for the headline ... Um ... Um ... Personally, I have little idea of ​​Uzbekistan, who have independently chosen from the abyss of socio-economic problems. Hence the intense flirting with the US leadership. request
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 23 March 2013 17: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Iraclius
      The article put a plus for a detailed account of the history of the formation of Uzbekistan as an independent state.


      I also learned a lot of new things about Uzbekistan of that period!
      An interesting article that differs from other articles here that are written depending on the fact that if Karimov did something for Russia and then he is smart, something for himself or Uzbekistan is a bad person!
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 01 New
      +4
      The author is a Kazakh political scientist from Kazakhstan. He is not Uzbek or Uzbek.
    3. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 58 New
      0
      Socio-economic problems are many everywhere. Uzbekistan is far below average on this list of issues. In general, the economy is booming. There is political and military and economic - with close cooperation with Russia - more than 120 international treaties with the Russian Federation, while with the USA - only 3. Do you feel the DIFFERENCE? All of Uzbekistan is being built on a large scale and is growing in all directions. Uzbekistan alone cannot cope with such a problem as the explosive population growth of 68 /% over 25 years. Here Russia also helps - ours go to seasonal work in the Russian Federation. Russia-Uzbekistan FRIENDSHIP FOR AGE!
  4. nagi
    nagi 23 March 2013 16: 10 New
    +4
    taking into account the imperial nature of Soviet statehood.

    I don’t understand why the author in the context gives a negative character to the concept of empire. Actually in the historical context, many small nations themselves kissed the hand of the Russian Tsar to join the Russian Empire.
    If you look at the figures given by the author, then questions arise about ensuring the sovereignty of Uzbekistan. With their currency deficit, it turns out that any attack of precision-guided weapons against strategic enterprises will lead to a change of power, since there is no currency to rebuild enterprises, and a deterioration in the already not rich economy will cause unrest that can overthrow the current political elites.
    1. avt
      avt 23 March 2013 17: 03 New
      +5
      Quote: nagi
      I don’t understand why the author in the context gives a negative character to the concept of empire.

      Well, this is just understandable. This is the common practice of all national republics, it is necessary for the new elite to establish themselves, and the easiest way is to point to the colonialists. Well, it's so simple, the main thing is to voice the oppression of the indigenous people, and leading its roots, if not from the messengers of God, then at least from Adam, well, and cut off the language connection with the oppressors. "That's just why then they are very surprised at the growing hatred of the newcomers to migrant workers in Russia. ”Apparently, they think that such processes of a surge of nationalism in relation to them, so proud and independent, in Russia by no means can happen.
      1. Beck
        Beck 24 March 2013 18: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: avt
        This is a common practice of all the national republics, the new elite needs to establish themselves, and the easiest way is to point to the colonialists.


        I think it’s not worthwhile to exaggerate anything, but also not to exaggerate anything. There was an era of slavery in the history of mankind and no one wanted to be a slave, only by force. There was an era of colonialism. The fact that the English Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire existed. And the fact that no state or people entered these empires voluntarily. Yes, there were agreements on voluntary accession imposed by colonial force, for example, in the English library there are many agreements on the voluntary accession of some African tribes to the metropolis .. Both England and France recognize that in the past they were colonial powers and that India and Africa were their colonies. It was so, well, so the story ordered.

        And here, then the Russian Empire was, but there were no colonies. What kind of empire is this? If there were no colonies, then you should not be called an empire. The USSR is a mild form of continuation of the Russian Empire. And of course, in the USSR there was no such oppression as should be in real empires, but there was no political freedom from Moscow either.

        This is so to say that the Russian principalities voluntarily became part of the Golden Horde, and now the Russians are talking about some 300 year old yoke.
        1. avt
          avt 24 March 2013 18: 53 New
          +2
          Quote: Beck
          here, then the Russian Empire was, but there were no colonies. What kind of empire is this? If there were no colonies, then you should not be called an empire. The USSR is a mild form of continuation of the Russian Empire. And of course, in the USSR there was no such oppression as should be in real empires, but there was no political freedom from Moscow either.

          Yes, there is such an Empire in which, at all costs of the social system, the national elites were attached to the leadership of the state. However, this is no longer important, it is in the past. You have your own political project, though from time to time there are phantom notes in the form of the CIS, the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the Union State, but this is so, beating at the tails of the problems that really stand before us, but there is no real mechanism for solving them. states in Russia, despite the desire to steer the process. Well, in all these unions there will not be a single decision-making center, no matter how it is called, nor a single, full-fledged economic space with a mandatory single monetary unit. As Clintonikha has already stated, they won’t give. Yes, and the locals do not want to. And in Moscow, you’ll also give nothing for a great life, they’re also not grabbing a piece. Cutting dough is not a unifying idea. Here to sit at least on a small but throne, yes, for this you can reward gorodni which hosh and push your foreheads together is not a pity.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 19: 27 New
            +3
            and which of our elites were involved in the leadership of the state in tsarist times? Or maybe under the Bolsheviks, Kazakhs occupied major posts in Moscow? I can enumerate Kazakhs in the leadership of the Kazakh SSR on the fingers of one hand, so about "joining the leadership of the country" - some kind of garbage. Maybe you know some Kazakh minister of the USSR?
            2) what kind of "political project" do we have that differs from yours?
            3) don't care if Hillary yells. we will also pay attention to the hysterical woman in the skirt. we have a task - we will fulfill it, the Eurasian Union (of a confederate type) will be built. The collapse of the USSR in 1991 is a natural process of reformatting our common state. The same period was in 1917, and during the collapse of Ulug Ulus (Golden Horde). The Soviet scheme is outdated; a new basis for the state is needed. As the Türks say since the time of the Turkic Khaganate of the 5th century, our country is "Mangi el" ("Eternal State"). Compare the perimeter of the outer border of the Turkic Kaganate, the Golden Horde, the Russian Empire, the USSR, the Customs Union (EvrazSoyuz) - and find the difference)
            1. avt
              avt 24 March 2013 19: 46 New
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              we have a task - we will accomplish it, the Eurasian Union (of a confederal type) will be built. The collapse of the USSR in 1991 is a natural process of reformatting our common state.

              And here I believe. As I believed those guys that after the founding of the CIS they promised to create an apparatus and created it, having seated themselves in posts with non-acid salaries, the only benefit would be from the newly created ones as from the previous ones like from a goat's milk. I’ll look at Khristenko and Seryozha Glazyev and I believe .. I believe that the collapse of the USSR for the guys whom Gorbachev gathered in Ogaryovo was a natural process, a process of treason of the state and ideology that they preached and crushed a lot of people on the way to the top, everyone already in this process, he was engaged in the construction of his specific ulus.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 20: 39 New
                +4
                Nazarbayev in August 1991 was supposed to present a plan for reforming the Soviet state, but then there was an attack of putschism among some conservatives and the solemn perching of Yeltsin on the "armored car". And it was Russia that led the process of the collapse of the USSR (the Balts were the first to start, but played the main role, whatever one may say, the RSFSR itself with its leader). I remember very well the enthusiasm that reigned at that time in Russia (he lived in Orenburg then), Solzhenitsyn's phrases were on everyone's lips: "Enough to feed the national outskirts", "Russia must become independent", "Kazakhstan stole our territory", "Kazakhstan is a soft underbelly" and other independent frenzy. It was not in Ukraine that the people began to demand independence (although formally their leadership jumped off the Soviet tram earlier than Russia) and it was not the Tajiks who demanded freedom, but ... the Russians. Yeltsin expressed what the Russian people wanted to hear at the time. Like, you yourself with a mustache, and you take as much sovereignty as you can drag off and get out. Who led the "ulus" policy - Kazakhstan or Russia?
                And nevertheless, Nazarbayev tried all these years to reach out to the leadership of Russia (and other CIS countries) with the idea of ​​a new Union - without a communist ideology, with an unhindered national and cultural policy (to which there were justified claims in all republics) and with a normal intelligible economy without "wild capitalism" and the sores of the Soviet planned economy. Who is to blame for the fact that in Russia the Russians every time maniacally voted for Yeltsin, whom they then just as amicably began to pour feces on. Only under Putin did the integration process begin again. Although Moscow is trying to appropriate the laurels of the author of the idea - well, the Kazakhs don't care, if only the process does not stop.
                The communist utopia no longer suits us, all that could be squeezed out of this idea is that we have squeezed. Now it's time to build a state on new principles.
                Nazarbayev has not yet presented the project of the Eurasian Union as political (for Western "friends") and is doing it right. But the Russian government makes everyone understand that this is precisely a political union, which cannot be voiced from the stands now at all. The West has already understood what's what and is starting to put a spoke in our wheels.
                Now Russia needs to tell the whole world that this is nothing more than economic relations. Nefig warn the enemy ahead of time.
                ZY And Gorbachev is just a goof who was bred as a child. Yeltsin in this regard was not very different when he listened to the speeches of Helmut, Bill and other "friends."
        2. avt
          avt 24 March 2013 19: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: Beck
          This is so to say that the Russian principalities voluntarily became part of the Golden Horde, and now the Russians are talking about some 300 year old yoke.

          And notice, as soon as this yoke theory is not even criticized by the yoke, and rather amusing non-conformity is pointed out, a terrible scream rises from all sides laughing
          1. Beck
            Beck 24 March 2013 20: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: avt
            And notice, as soon as this yoke theory does not even begin to criticize the yoke theory


            Kazakhstan has long been determined. As far back as 90 years, Nazarbayev suggested introducing a common currency - ALTYN, which is acceptable for both the Russian language and Kazakh. So Yeltsin did not support. Evrazesmu be.

            Just I do not understand the cheers-patriots. It seems they also want to, but on the conditions for the entry of other states in the quality of the provinces. Nazarbayev recently announced that there is no alternative to Eurases. But the political independence of Kazakhstan is beyond the scope of discussions. Something like this. And hurray patriots, at every opportunity, throw a heap of dirt on a neighbor. Notice neither I, nor Marek, nor anyone else from Kazakhstan, on this site, in such a tone about the Russians spoke. And none of us opposed the EurAsEC - EQUAL EASES did not speak. Totally agree. We are not leaning against China, we are tormented to learn the Chinese language. And historically, 99% of Kazakhs know Russian.
            1. avt
              avt 24 March 2013 22: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: Beck
              Kazakhstan has long been determined. As far back as 90 years, Nazarbayev suggested introducing a common currency - ALTYN, which is acceptable for both the Russian language and Kazakh. So Yeltsin did not support

              Well, I’m talking about this and I say, they won’t give the printing press to anyone! Well, they don’t agree on over national bodies with the adoption of a decision for all and its mandatory implementation! And everything else is the CIS part 2ya.
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 25 March 2013 07: 40 New
              +4
              Beck, there will definitely be a common currency. Just before that, it is necessary to adjust a bunch of settings, unify a bunch of financial laws, and in Belarus there is a lot to do if it also wants "common money".
              Altyn is really a great word. And Russians historically have already had such money, and Kazakhs are familiar with this word - "gold". The most suitable option for a single currency of the Slavs and Turks.

              ABT
              Yeltsin was indeed a real enemy of integration, and the situation has changed dramatically since Putin's time. Moreover, the Russian government, on the contrary, is beginning to try to take a too fast pace (Pts love to lie in Russia for a long time, and then rush). Astana even has to tell Moscow: "Guys, slow down, this is not the time for a common parliament (or something else)."
              The single financial body of the Union will be created no earlier than 2020. And only then will it be possible to smell the single currency.
              So, ABT, calm, only calm) We will do everything right. Without haste, and taking into account historical errors.
              1. avt
                avt 25 March 2013 09: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                lecin was indeed the real enemy of integration, and since Putin's time, the situation has changed dramatically.

                Strange you guys. Well, they will not be allowed to the emission center, and Lukashenko’s attempt does not tell you anything, and even more so in the light of recent events in Cyprus. But the EU is not the CIS. There must be VERY serious reasons for admitting to the control levers in Russia the elites of the national states and the rejection of part of sovereignty in the newly created countries. But there are no such reasons, as there is no ideology of unification. Babo is not a reason. And Yeltsin confirms this, he had everything on the side, except for personal authority. And here he clearly woke up after working with documents and reacted instantly.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 21 New
      +2
      Nagi, you still say that the Uzbek khanates voluntarily asked to be part of the Russian empire ...
    3. Alibekulu
      23 March 2013 20: 27 New
      +1
      nagi: "I don't understand why the author in the context gives a negative character to the concept of empire."
      Well, how to explain ... I'll try something like this ...
      WHEN YOU ARE ..., then positively ...
      WHEN YOU HAVE E ..., it is negative ..

      By the way, how do you feel about Ulug Ulusuput it Golden Horde??
      Why is it negative about Russia’s history and historical memory ??? request
      1. smile
        smile 23 March 2013 21: 25 New
        0
        Alibekulu
        Well written. but you only, please do not compare dozens and hundreds of people cut to the last man, burnt cities and millions taken into slavery during the yoke of people, with the actions of RI. And then they started talking ... if they did the same to you - you would not have died .. and so - multiplied several times .... and the conditions for this were created by the empire. Slavery didn’t, they didn’t let you slaughter each other, they drove away all your enemies, they didn’t take your army, there are fewer duties than Russian peasants, your elite has equal rights with ours, medicine, education, industry have appeared. you have developed and gained opportunities for development not previously seen ... I'm not talking. that we are so fluffy, but branding us do not forget to lie less ... and humor - et well - I support, I liked it! :))))
        1. Alibekulu
          23 March 2013 22: 01 New
          +5
          Rakhmet Balshoy Smile, canesh can write sharply ..., but I will remind you that "every coin has two sides." Those. as you yourself know, in any event there are both positive and negative sides ... Yes, much of what you mention certainly took place ... And indeed RI, and especially the Soviet Union, gave a lot, but also negative and what a lot of bad moments WEIGHT...
          If interested, look in the comments Mareka Rozny..There everything is thorough, the facts and opinions of the Kazakhs on this account are reasoned ... If that I will try to answer yours later
          s.o. hi
          1. smile
            smile 23 March 2013 22: 31 New
            0
            Alibekulu
            Greetings! I agree with this unconditionally, without additional checks .. :))))) There were no negative moments, as you carefully said:)))) - there simply could not be no more control over territories and peoples, and ours, in any case, are not angels (just often, they look much cleaner than their European colleagues and the motivating reasons are slightly different:)))) .... so that Rakhmet is big for you too! :))))
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 25 New
          +3
          Kagbe Russia stormed Uzbek cities, and Russian soldiers persecuted the local residents so cruelly that it angered even the Kazakh Chingizids who served in the Russian army. Vereshchagin went nuts from how Russian soldiers killed local townspeople, read his memoirs. The Uzbek khanates were literally drenched in blood. So there is no need to idealize the tsarist army. Moreover, the reasons were very prosaic - the Russian Empire needed cotton like air for the military industry. Do you know why the idea of ​​Transsib was born? 1) Transfer of tsarist troops to Asia; 2) Export of cotton from Turkestan. Quite so-so colonial. By the way, if you read Soviet historical books on the topic of pre-revolutionary Turkestan, you will see that the USSR did not hesitate to call the actions of the tsarist regime - colonial, "oppressive", etc.
          The liberation from slavery from a country that until 1861 itself was actually slaveholding looks very funny.
          What kind of Turkestan enemies did the Russians "drive away"? Someone was going to attack Turkestan? Tell us more about our enemies.
          Regarding the army, the Kazakhs voluntarily became part of the Russian Empire, but on the condition that they would not be recruited into soldiers as Russian men, who were taken for 18 years in the 20th century, if you forgot. The Kazakhs entered the Empire on the condition that they would only join the army of their own free will. And during the Patriotic War, Kazakhs massively volunteered for the Russian troops (Cossack units and "Bashkir" regiments). But the Kazakhs did not want to go to the First World War, because none of the Kazakhs considered it fair or necessary to protect the Fatherland. And when the king decided to recruit Kazakhs by force in 1916, the Kazakhs responded with a tough large-scale uprising.
          All Kazakhs paid taxes, and regularly. Do not make us parasites. At the same time, tsarist power to the Kazakhs, essno, did not build anything, no Disneyland, schools and theaters. The tsarist authorities in the region built only military facilities, infrastructure for their own Russian immigrants and, most importantly, expanded cotton plantations.
          Kazakhs practically did not see any medicine and education from the Russian authorities. Do not compose. The educational institutions of Turkestan accepted almost exclusively Slavs. Kazakhs studied in their Muslim schools, built at the expense of the Kazakhs themselves.
          Industry in Turkestan was built not by Russians, but ... by the British and other foreigners. Moreover, the industry was raw materials, not manufacturing. One need not even talk about small primitive manufactories of Russian settlers. They produced an insignificant minimum of "GDP" for the region, and could not even meet the needs of the Russian settlers themselves.
          So before speaking on the topic of pre-revolutionary Turkestan, try to read at least something.
          1. smile
            smile 23 March 2013 22: 52 New
            +3
            Marek Rozny
            I read memoirs .. so I denied that during the war they pour blood? said that ours are all with wings and without tails, and yours without wings, but with horns? :))) we fought about the same as the rest, just further behavior was the opposite.
            I do not idealize anyone. If you read my original comment carefully, you will understand what prompted me to write it and why I wrote just that. Also understand. that you spend a fuse in vain. Do not be offended - I do not want to offend you.
            The army of the Republic of Ingushetia was composed almost exclusively of Great Russians (with the exception of officers), other nationalities, nations, and peoples were attracted mainly as irregular cavalry. The soldiers did not shave even with the contracts. even without. About industry - you are not quite right (except for Disneyland), but I will not argue - it will be long, and I still want to read the hunt. For this, at least excuse me? :))))
            Thank you for opening my eyes and telling me. that the Kazakhs fought in the Second World War .... otherwise I did not know ... there are no words! Do I really look like an idiot who does not know about this? :)))) Well, if it looks like that, then okay, my fault ... :)))))
            Continuing the topic - along the way, I have no claim to you regarding your participation, non-participation in 1 MV. And I would not call you a parasite even if I thought so, I would hide that it was oligophrenic :)))
            What parasites - we built one common country, for all of us.
            But the scores went — and some of ours began to call you in every way - by himself — when your elites, who came to power, exploited the Russophobic theme and began to unanimously, on command, broadcast about Russian colonialists, genocides, oppression and other vile things ... and then the Russian population ran, knowing in their own skin all the tolerance of the new democratic authorities .... You must remember all this .. Note that I do not blame you, but explain that it was strange that the Russians did not notice this. (by the way, in the Kaliningrad region a significant number of refugees from Kazakhstan are communicating).
            So. that let's agree - we stop throwing stones at all, and sticks - only in the case. when one of the parties really does something wrong, okay? :))))
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 59 New
              +4
              1) I did not mean the Great Patriotic War, but the Patriotic War of 1812.
              2) "Refugees from Kazakhstan in Kaliningrad" - usually those who, in Soviet times, headed the Almaty party nomenclature))))))) The Almaty city executive committee in full force dumped there, as well as all sorts of rogues such as ex-bankers of "Kramds Bank" and others The "refugees" "fled" to Kaliningrad, having managed to privatize communal property, sell it well and arrive with large container ships from Almaty. They have occupied you and the Kaliningrad mayor's office, watch the movements of their hands.

              And the rest is happy to pacify)
              drinks
              1. smile
                smile 24 March 2013 04: 46 New
                0
                Marek Rozny
                auto-update \ windows eat comment ... I will see Gates-eat! In general, you really own the information, but normal people distinguish between the first and second waves ... the second are real refugees, and most of them .... the first are tracked. basically = no worse, no better than local ..... and hell to them. there are few of those. who wanders about the origin ....
                but we didn’t have time to make peace with something tea and fight :)))) and we will be friends, I hope! :))))
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 08: 19 New
                  +4
                  There were not and there are no refugees from Kazakhstan. 3/4 of Kazakhstani Russians remained in KZ and they do not speak about any oppression, and they have never encountered nationalism, and they are not going to Russia even under the programs. They left: 1) rogues and crooks who, in the turbid wave of the 90s, managed to boil and dump; 2) random people who ended up in the Kazakh SSR by 1991, but never intended to live outside Mother Russia, 3) outspoken nationalists who did not hesitate to argue "we taught you how to piss and wipe your ass" - this category was given to understand that they it is better to get out of here, so as not to cast a shadow on the rest of the Russians and keep their own jaws, 4) alarmists who have not even seen the notorious "Kazakh nationalism", but succumbed to the giant informational wave on this topic, which was generated by the Russian media in 90 -ies (especially during periods of elections at various levels), 5) simply for economic reasons - in Kazakhstan in the 90s there was neither work nor money. Nazarbayev frankly said that it would not be easy, it would be necessary to tighten our belts, roll up our sleeves, prosperity would come in forty years (!). This category laughed at the program "Kazakhstan-2030" and left the KZ, seeing no prospects for themselves (or rather, not wanting to wait).
                  And normal Russians, who cannot be taken for fear, who know how to work and not steal, who are devoid of national prejudices, who can always be relied on, who are not ashamed to stand shoulder to shoulder, remained in Kazakhstan. Kazakhs generally believe that the best Russians live in KZ)))) This is not a joke, the Kazakhs are really convinced of this. For our Russians, Kazakhs will tear off anyone's head (but sluggishly "rugazzo" and we will argue about the state language laughing ).

                  ZY It is very pleasant to find a common language with a person, if where I went too far, I sincerely apologize. The Internet, you can't see a person, you can clumsily hurt someone. Moreover, between Russians and Kazakhs (as well as with other "steppe dwellers" - Tatars, Bashkirs, Kyrgyz, Yakuts, Kalmyks, Buryats, etc.), conflicts rarely arise in real life. Our cultures, languages, history and geography are already so intertwined that there is really nothing to divide))))
                  1. Was mammoth
                    Was mammoth 24 March 2013 16: 23 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    There were no refugees from Kazakhstan. Three quarters of Kazakhstani Russians remained in the KZ and they did not talk about any oppression, they had never encountered nationalism, and they weren’t going to Russia even under programs. Left: 3) scumbags and crooks, which in the muddy wave of the 90s managed to weld and dump; 2) random people who turned out to be in the Kazakh SSR by 1991, but who had never intended to live outside Mother Russia, 3) outspoken nationalistswho did not hesitate to argue "we taught you how to piss and wipe your ass" - this category made it clear that it would be better for them to get out of here, so as not to cast a shadow on the rest of the Russians and keep their own jaws, 4) panchorswho never saw the notorious "Kazakh nationalism", but succumbed to the gigantic informational wave on this topic, which was generated by the Russian media in the 90s (especially during the periods of elections of various levels), 5) just for economic reason

                    Only "a few" million Russians (or as politicians like to say "Russian-speaking" nowadays) are rogues, swindlers ... and further in the text.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 16: 40 New
                      +2
                      and how many Russians left Russia in 20 years? refugees too?

                      and what then to call the remaining Russians in Kazakhstan? short-sighted? losers? enslaved?
          2. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 24 March 2013 09: 44 New
            +2
            Marek Rozny "But the Kazakhs did not want to go to the First World War, because none of the Kazakhs considered it fair or necessary to protect the Fatherland. And when the king decided to recruit Kazakhs by force in 1916, the Kazakhs responded with a tough large-scale uprising."
            Marek! The king of the Kazakhs did not want to recruit into the army. And digging trenches. And for this they had to pay. But nobody really explained this to the Kazakhs.
            By education, the Kazakhs studied at the gymnasiums, though not en masse, but the tribal nobility, nevertheless tried to send their children to Russian gymnasiums.
            Marek Rozny "The Kazakhs practically did not see any medicine and education from the Russian authorities. Do not compose."
            At that time, Russian ordinary people themselves were not spoiled by medical care. I can add that during the uprising, Kazakhs were killed mainly by doctors, teachers, postal workers. For the sake of honesty, I add I was killed not only by Kazakhs. Since the uprising in 1916 was all over Turkestan.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 12: 16 New
              +1
              Yes, for the rear work. To the front. Digging trenches and stuff. But where did the king see slaves and serfs here to behave this way? And so the Kazakhs were very angry with the policy of weaning the best lands in favor of immigrants from the European part of the Empire, and here is such a humiliating decree. So they made a buch.

              With regard to education. How many "Kyrgyz children" studied in the educational institutions built by the Russians - you can count on one hand. For example, in the Akmola region at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century, only in Omsk there was a boarding school for "Kyrgyz" children. In which there lived about a dozen boys in the care of two educators (non-professional teachers of everything and everyone). Plus, a couple of people were admitted to 1-2 vocational schools. The remaining 95% of the children were strictly Europeans.
              In the capital of the Turkestan Territory - Tashkent, there was exactly the same situation. Those. all "Russian" educational institutions accepted only Russians. The number of "natives" was strictly limited.
              But Genghisides, using their noble title, really had no problems with education. Their offspring easily entered the military schools of Orenburg, Omsk, Kazan and became personnel officers of the Russian army. Many studied in St. Petersburg and in Europe.
              The situation began to change only at the very end of tsarism in the 10s of the 20th century, when political changes generally began in Russia with regard to foreigners, and indeed in relation to the lower classes of the Russian population. True, in any case, this did not play any role. More was announced in words than in deed.
              And in 1916, Kazakhs indiscriminately killed all Russians. Moreover, the bulk of the Russians in the region were not "doctors and teachers", but Cossacks, soldiers, officials and the Stolypin invaders-settlers. They made up the overwhelming majority of the Russian population in Turkestan. Moreover, the cruelty was on both sides. Russian punishers (“punishers” is the official Russian term of that period, and not inventions of Kazakh “rewriters of history”, as they like to call all those in Russia who speak non-complimentary about tsarism in the region) also did not stand on ceremony and destroyed Kazakh auls entirely.
              In addition to the Kazakhs, the Kyrgyz also actively participated in the uprising. Sarts and Turkmen almost did not participate, because their wave of Stolypin migrants practically did not touch, unlike the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 24 March 2013 14: 02 New
                +2
                Marek Rozny "And in 1916 Kazakhs indiscriminately killed all Russians. Moreover, the bulk of Russians in the region were not" doctors and teachers ", but Cossacks, soldiers, officials and Stolypin invaders-settlers."
                In Semirechye there were more immigrants and more losses among the Russian population.
                There were few Russians in the Steppe Territory, mostly officials, to whom doctors and teachers can be attributed, as well as clerks and postmen, etc. they were actually killed because there were no others.
                There were almost no soldiers, everyone at the front, almost everything. Cossacks too. For example, the regional center of Turgai, a population of 2500 people, was defended by a team of 100 soldiers and 196 Cossacks, plus militias from the Russian population. About 15 thousand besieged as then said the Kyrgyz. So, there weren’t much troops there. In all of Turkestan, by January 1, 1917, 8 officers and 121 lower ranks were killed. 3 officers and 114 lower ranks were injured. The officials of the Russian administration killed 20, the native 53. Losses of the Russian population in Turkestan 3828 (4145) in brackets are other data.
                Marek Rozny "also did not stand on ceremony and destroyed the Kazakh auls entirely.
                Here I can agree with you, but apart from the word aula. I know about one aul. Kyzyl-Kul was called in the battle under it "eight Cossacks were killed, disfigured beyond recognition and stabbed with lances by the Kirghiz, the ninth was captured and had eight wounds from pricks with a lance. one of the Cossacks. "
                It is clear why the Cossacks burned such things and didn’t forgive anyone in general.
                Again, as you correctly noted mutual cruelty.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 15: 13 New
                  +1
                  Nagaybak, in short, until we got used to each other - so much blood was shed to each other and guilty and innocent, horror.
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 24 March 2013 17: 59 New
                    +2
                    Marek Rozny "Nagaybak, in short, while we got used to each other - so much blood and guilty and innocent they shed, horror."
                    Hehe ... not that word Marek. Although, on the other hand, even the shedding of such an amount of blood did not make our peoples irreconcilable enemies.
                    On my own, I judge in the sense that it is easier for me to communicate with the Turks than with such Slavic brothers as Poles.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 21: 35 New
                      +2
                      But damn it, I never understood why Russians and Poles could not find a common language. Poles - spilled Russian mentality. They are much more similar in nature to Russians than Bulgarians or Serbs. Yes, religions are different, only Poles and Russians about religion do not so often remember as a kind of arch-important factor.
                      But things are not going well for the Poles with the Russians - and that’s it. My head has already broken, why it happened.

                      ZY It is not interesting to poison jokes with Poles - we have the same jokes, only instead of "a Russian, a Frenchman and an American on the island," they have respectively "a Pole, a Frenchman and an American." And all the other anecdotes are practically on the same topics as ours, in contrast to other foreign humor. Even when you watch Polish films (whether of the Soviet period or modern ones), I never leave the feeling that ours were filming, and the actors there are ours.
                2. Alibekulu
                  24 March 2013 15: 50 New
                  +2
                  Nagaibak in the book “Turkic Steppe Nomads” by the eminent Russian ethnographer V.Radlov, the following proverb is given, which reads: “Wolf, Kazakh and Russian Cossack - three brothers”
                  It's me that they are worthy of each other ... put on a par with the wolf am
                  It also says that among the neighboring peoples, the Kazakhs earned a bad reputation ...
          3. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 24 March 2013 14: 43 New
            +1
            Marek Rozny "The industry in Turkestan was built not by the Russians, but ... by the British and other foreigners."
            That is, as I understand it, the Russians did not do anything under the tsar in Central Asia, they only exported cotton.
            All the same, I am for a more balanced approach, otherwise we will come to an agreement that the Russians have come to a region that has simply blossomed.
            Slavery there was a fact, with the advent of the Russians he was gone, like it or not, it is.
            Of course, everything in Central Asia revolved around cotton. The land began to produce monoculture. Bread was imported there from Russia, so there they began to plant cotton in huge volumes. They built railways and built irrigation canals. Only six large engineering and irrigation dams were built on Murghab and Tejen. The construction of a canal in the Hungry Steppe began with project irrigation of about 2,5 million acres. This is understandable for the sake of cotton. But the locals didn’t use it? They still use it. There have been big changes in the urban development of Turkestan. First of all, the development planning for cities, residential and industrial areas has changed. For the first time in the history of the region, European-style public and school buildings, offices, industrial enterprises, banks, hospitals were built. Tram traffic began in Tashkent. In some cities, telegraph and telephone services were introduced for the first time. The lighting of streets and public houses has also been developed. Many cities, large railway stations were supplied with drinking water through pipes. In large cities, streets, sidewalks with granite stone were laid, sewage was created. The sanitary condition of the cities has improved.
            In connection with the development of industry and the construction of railways, new cities arose - Skobelev (Fergana), Kagan, Krasnovodsk, Pishpek (Frunze) and others. The commercial and industrial importance of such old cities as Tashkent, Samarkand, Bukhara, Andijan, Kokand increased. The latter has become an important commercial and industrial center of the Ferghana Valley. Tashkent has become the most important political, economic and cultural center of all of Central Asia.
            To say that the Russians did not do anything in Central Asia, I think too.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 15: 42 New
              0
              Tashkent before that was one of the most important cities of the region. And several times, the capital of the Kazakhs, until it was transferred to the region formed by the Uzbek SSR, although at the beginning of the 20th century the Kazakhs there were the majority compared to the Sarts and the Uzbeks themselves.
              Yes, the tsarist authorities have done a lot in the region - but almost exclusively for their own, and not for the locals. The built infrastructure was for the tsarist administration and immigrants. The Turkic population did not usually have access to these benefits of civilization, but used their baths, mekteps, madrassas, and used the services of their healers (both real and charlatans). And they did not use the services of telegraphs, banks, railway, etc. Why should a Kazakh put money in a bank or ride a tram when everyone has a more convenient and familiar form of transport - a horse?
              New cities did not appear as a place for the civilian population, but as military bases. It is now that they have become cities, and then - just military fortifications.
              Central Asians built large-scale irrigation canals even before the arrival of the tsarist power. Moreover, contemporaries note that the Asian water utilities were much more efficient than the new "Russian" ones. Moreover, most of the money was banally plundered by the administration. This was problem number 1. Many channels only existed on paper. And even in the first decades of Soviet power, the Russian administration continued to engage in the same eyewash as the previous tsarist one. Until the 30s, officials were regularly imprisoned and shot in Turkestan, who stole money a little more than completely and wrote to Moscow about the supposedly built canals. And usually they either did not build at all, or they built anything that didn’t even work. It was only in the late 30s that Russian officials in Turkestan really began to build large-scale irrigation systems. And before that, the existing ones were passed off as newly built ones.
              The Central Asians did not particularly need bread. He was brought primarily for his own settlers, who could not feed themselves. Asians grew some bread (of poor quality), but that was enough. Even the Kazakh steppe inhabitants constantly grew for themselves a little grain, millet and other cereals. True, the Kazakhs still preferred to do more with what they knew better than others — cattle breeding, and exchanged flour for surplus cattle from Russians and Sarts. Agriculture in the steppe is a stupid matter due to natural conditions. And while there were no durum wheat cultivated much later, farming was very inefficient.
              The tsarist authorities faced the Asians only when a tax collector came to the village, or when an Asian went to court to complain about someone’s actions. Before the Soviet regime, it was two parallel worlds. They communicated with Cossacks more at a simple level than they saw any positive or negative effect from the tsarist officials. Well, and the fact that the Sarts were saved from slavery - why should the Sartams rejoice? They were not slaves (except for debts, but with subsequent redemption), but the Persians usually, and a few other nationalities, including a small group of Russian people captured at one time by Kenesary Kasymov and just given to the Khivans (Russian prisoners served in the Uzbek armies by their profile - soldiers). There was no mass slavery in Turkestan.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 24 March 2013 18: 11 New
                +2
                Marek Rozny It wasn't until the late 30s that Russian officials in Turkestan really started building large-scale irrigation systems. And before that, the existing ones were passed off as newly built ones. "
                The Soviet years are generally a separate issue. There, the transformations were revolutionary.
                As for bread, there were not so many immigrants in Turkestan to bring their bread to Russia. I mean Central Asia. But the fact that everyone began to plant cotton, so then it all started. Monoculture, so to speak, bread generally became little local to plant it was easier to get from Russia. Anyway. You have your own point of view, I have my own. But, about the canals, I don’t know ... did the local digging with the help of excavators? The Romanovsky Canal in the Hungry Steppe is a serious hydraulic construction. Not inferior in grandeur and Soviet.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 19: 41 New
                  +4
                  Well Duc and the tsarist government did not have excavators. but regarding the Romanovsky channel I can’t help but recall some things:
                  The author and implementer of the idea of ​​construction Nikolai Konstantinovich Romanov openly wrote: "My desire is to revive the deserts of Central Asia and make it easier for the government to settle them by Russian people of all classes.".
                  On irrigated lands near the canal, 12 large Russian villages were built immediately in 1896. By 1913, 119 Russian villages had already grown there.
                  Again, it somehow does not really fit into the picture of "Russian care for the natives", but another goal is clearly visible. How would Russians react to such behavior, say, of Tajiks in Russia? They built a canal (or other "investment object") for their needs and frankly began to populate it at a very fast pace. I think the situation in Russia would have escalated to the limit.
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 25 March 2013 08: 19 New
                    +1
                    Marek Rozny "Well, Duc and the tsarist government had no excavators."
                    Not only had, but also produced.
                    "Until 1917, excavators were produced in Russia under license. The Putilov plant produced 39 excavators according to the drawings of the American company Bucyrus. These were mechanical part-turn steam shovels on a rail track with buckets with a capacity of up to 2,3 m³ and ten bucket excavators built according to drawings of the German company Lu'beck. "
                    Certainly not an advanced country for the production of excavators, but as you can see, they produced something. And of course at the Putilov factory.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 50 New
                      +2
                      and where does this infa and pre-revolutionary channels in Turkestan? did tsarism send these excavators to dig irrigation in our region?
                      1. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 27 March 2013 07: 21 New
                        0
                        Marek rozny
                        "And where does this infa and pre-revolutionary canals in Turkestan have to do with these excavators tsarism sent to dig irrigation in our region?"
                        You just wrote
                        "Well, Duc and the tsarist government had no excavators."
                        I have provided this information.
                        An excavator was used to build the Romanovsky Canal. He is on the photo dedicated to the construction of the canal. Smaller canals were built using manual labor ..
                        "And before that, the existing ones were passed off as newly built ones."
                        This is also your phrase to her, I answered about the Romanovsky Canal, you replied that it was built for the needs of the Russians. All the rest were on paper. It sounds like something indiscriminate if there is more detail, lay it out.
                        Also, I read Vereshchagin’s recollections of Central Asia on the Internet — I didn’t get to the brutality of the Russian troops. Maybe I didn’t read that passage. And then it’s all about some sort of boys whose sarts were the bastards of ...
                      2. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 27 March 2013 08: 05 New
                        -1
                        “Russia stormed Uzbek cities, and Russian soldiers persecuted local residents so cruelly that it angered even the Kazakh Chingizids who served in the Russian army. Vereshchagin was freaked out by how Russian soldiers killed local townspeople, read his memoirs. Uzbek khanates flooded literally blood. "
                        As for Chokan and his memoirs, I somehow did not find it either. Well, the thesis about flooding of Central Asian cities needs to be confirmed.
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 13: 33 New
                        +2
                        I admit, I was mistaken with excavators, indeed in 1911 they were purchased for digging a canal. Thank you for talking about this fact.
                        But nonetheless,
                        "... At the beginning of 1914, the government approved a law on the allotment of state-owned plots irrigated by the Romanovsky Canal system, to which these interests were legally secured. In accordance with the law, only Russian subjects of all Christian faiths were allowed to be settled, if there is property worth at least 1 thousand rubles, and also provided that Christians do not belong to those faiths that prohibit the performance of military duties. Thus, the very first paragraph of the law emphasized the nature of Russian colonization and its orientation.
                        The seventh paragraph of the law specifically stipulated that persons of local nationality are not allowed to settle on the lands of the Hungry Steppe, even as tenants. "http://cossac-awards.narod.ru/Zametki/Zametka60_Tutov_Golodnaya_step.html
                        So there is nothing to thank the Turkestanis for the royal power. And it is completely wrong to portray the construction of the Romanovsky Canal as "caring for local residents".

                        I will write about the capture of cities later, after "pulling out" quotes from books and biographies)

                        About bachey - yeah ... There is such a feature in the general Persian culture. There are still such geisha boys in Afghanistan. The steppe inhabitants looked at these Sart "amusements" with undisguised disgust, but did not go to them with their own charter. It's their business what to do with their own asses.
                      4. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 27 March 2013 18: 19 New
                        0
                        Marek Rozny "I will write about the capture of cities later, after" pulling out "quotes from books and biographies)"
                        You to me if it does not complicate the links kidanite.
                      5. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 27 March 2013 18: 45 New
                        0
                        This is from the article at your link.
                        In 1912, the Russian government restored Tyuya-Tartar, for which within a month and a half about 100 thousand dehkans cleared and put in order the ancient channel. The launch of this canal allowed to increase irrigation areas in the Jizzakh region by 2 thousand acres.
                        This is clearly not for migrants. The same article states that it was planned to populate the Hungry Steppe with Russian immigrants. In 1876, Grand Duke Nikolai Konstantinovich appeared in Tashkent. In 1883, trying to find a “glorious” and profitable application of forces, he became interested in irrigating new lands and began to build the Iskander and Khanym canals from the Chirchik River. In 1885, 4500 acres of land were supplied with water for irrigation. Already with his first irrigation works he gained great popularity among the population. The first of these is the removal from Chirchik along the right bank of the river of the canal named by him Iskander-aryk.
                        Then on these lands there were only a few houses of poor farmers who had evicted from Gazalkent. After the Iskander-aryk, the “grand-princely” village of Iskander was laid here ..
                        And this is to the fact that not only Russians used the water in the golden steppe.
                        1917 turned out to be shallow in Turkestan, bread burned in the vine. In one year, wheat prices increased by more than 50 times compared with 1914.
                        Famine drove the farmers from their homes. They scattered around the edge in search of bread. Some of them settled voluntarily in the Hungry Steppe, arbitrarily sowed large areas with grain, uncontrollably using water for their irrigation, which led to further waterlogging and salinization of the land.
                        As a result, all the same, the channels remained in Central Asia and now they probably use them.
  • Alibekulu
    24 March 2013 11: 22 New
    +1
    [b] Quote: nagi [/ b
    ..."they themselves kissed the hand of the Russian tsar to join the Russian Empire. "
    You would remember how and to whom and what the Russian princes kissed in the Horde ... tongue
    Here is an example reflected in your Russian chronicles:
    "About evil Tatar honor: Danilov Romanovich was a great former prince, who possessed the Russian land, Kiev and Volodimer and Galich ... [b] now sits on his knee and is called a slave ... [/ b] O evil Tatar honor - his father was tsar in the Russian land, who like conquer the Polovtsian land and fight for other countries all. "
    In general, something like this .... There are other examples ... request
  • Natalia777
    Natalia777 7 October 2017 08: 10 New
    0
    Respected! What kind of attack are you talking about? An agreement on military cooperation has been signed between Russia and Uzbekistan and joint military exercises are being systematically held - right now, for example, too. Russia and Uzbekistan are closely and amicably linked politically, economically and by ensuring security, which is already enshrined in more than 120 international agreements. Uzbekistan has become independent, but the people and government of Uzbekistan and Russia are bound by invisible bonds of friendship, respect and mutual assistance. WE WERE AND REMAINING OTHERS. Uzbekistan is covering the underbelly of Russia from the attacks of radical Islam, Russia is protecting Uzbekistan with its nuclear shield from US aggression.
  • Nagaibak
    Nagaibak 23 March 2013 16: 23 New
    +4
    What is there? Can an eternally sleeping giant wake up? Hehe ... or maybe not ... somehow it should be more modest, you should suffer less from gigantism, otherwise the neighbors will quickly reveal it ...
    But seriously ... on what a country can expect for which the Olympic champion in Georgian wrestling ... hehe ... I’ll look at their development when Karimov leaves ... he’s not eternal. Minus did not set for the article and so everything is clear.
    1. Black
      Black 23 March 2013 19: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Nagaibak
      Hehe ... or maybe not ... somehow it should be more modest, you should suffer less from gigantism, otherwise the neighbors will quickly reveal it ...

      You are inattentive. The author is a citizen of Kazakhstan. And he said about the "giant" with irony.
      Great article. Sensibly, reasonably, thoughtfully.
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 24 March 2013 08: 29 New
        +1
        Black "You are inattentive. The author is a citizen of Kazakhstan. And he said about the" giant "with irony."
        Maybe with irony ... I will not argue ... Although the first part of my comment is also written with irony ...
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 20 New
      +4
      The author of the article is not an Uzbek, but a political scientist from Kazakhstan, a Kazakh.
    3. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 08: 52 New
      0
      Uzbekistan just modestly speaks of its development as a common thing. If you have noticed, then the author of the article is not a citizen of Uzbekistan, which explains the inaccuracies in his article, although in general the article is objective - in fact. Of course, Uzbekistan does not claim to be a "giant", but it has a certain weight and independence from the Anglo-Saxons and radicals. To be proud and rejoice in Uzbekistan is what is what.
  • Tartary
    Tartary 23 March 2013 16: 57 New
    -1
    I do not like them, because those born in the USSR sold the past more abruptly than Russians, and the young ones were just mostly wild Asians, who are only related in relation to those born in the USSR ...
    It doesn’t smell of spirit there, but you can cut off your head like a ram, anyone who wants to eat fried meat ...

    By the way, Russians often use a sledgehammer or an ax / cleaver butt to kneel a bull ... What’s a ram compared to a bull, huh?

    Kill a ram or kill a bull with a fist in the head? What's cooler?
    1. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 08: 57 New
      0
      Chatterbox! Did you go to the Uzbek outback? NO! And here I am constantly there. It is customary for Uzbeks to listen and honor their parents. And their parents explained to them what Russia is for Uzbekistan. Young people and the old generation - everyone loves Russia and knows that it was good in the USSR. And curse the United States for Ukraine. So you are a ram and look at the new gate and do not understand anything that is happening and is happening around and in Uzbekistan. Russia and Uzbekistan are friends since the Golden Age and will be friends forever despite the borders.
  • srha
    srha 23 March 2013 17: 16 New
    +1
    The author also burns in history: "all power was completely concentrated in the hands of the political center in Moscow." Yeah, of course. And who was the "chief" of the city committee, district committee, etc. And the assimilation of different groups into the Uzbek ethnos in Moscow and ..., well, was not needed at all. And the ruling groups in the republics in the USSR changed not only in Uzbekistan. So in Kyrgyzstan in the 85th they changed well, but in Kazakhstan in the 86th it was sloppy. And I very much doubt the "united Turkestan", or rather, I am even sure that the national republics were created under the most powerful pressure from local nationalists.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 23 March 2013 18: 10 New
    +1
    - The article is simply academic! Bravo to the author! But behind references to the negative role of the Russian Empire and the Soviet "Empire" does not the ghost of Panturkestan loom? With the Sleeping Giant at its head, of course! Ah, that sweet word: Empire! One problem: the neighbors are not happy ... Kazakhs, Tajiks, Kyrgyz ... Moreover, these Russians ... Sleep well, giant, sweet dreams to you!
    1. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 02 New
      0
      An empire is good, and living under the protection of the Russian empire is good. Otherwise, the United States would have long ruined and destroyed Uzbekistan as Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria. So for all understanding citizens of the USSR, the word "Empire" is associated with a world without war and blood. VIVAT OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE! VIVAT TO EVERYONE WHO IS FRIENDLY WITH RUSSIA!
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 23 March 2013 18: 10 New
    +2
    Yes, what else I want to note. The author in the article complains that, they say, the evil communists did not allow the powerful Turkestan to form on their own, who were very much eager to create Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Sardis, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, etc.
    A logical question arises of any sane person - but what the hell did the Russians forget there and prevent the creation of a mighty Turkestan there?

    Major General L.F. Kostenko, one of the historians of the Turkestan campaigns, will best answer the first question. At one time he diplomatically wrote:
    “Not ambitious plans and any other self-serving calculations guide Russia in its progressive movement to Central Asia, but only the desire to pacify that land, give an impetus to its productive forces and open the shortest way for marketing Turkestan's works to the European part of Russia.”


    History answered the second question itself - for the thousand-year history of Central Asia, there have never voluntarily emerged, not only large, small state formations. And all this talk about some mighty Uzbekistan - "a collector of Iranian and non-Iranian lands" seems a little naive to me. If the Uzbek SSR had not been formed in 1924, but, say, would have formed the gigantic Turkestan SSR, the country would have received such hemorrhoids on its head in the form of interethnic and other conflicts for many years that later they themselves would not be happy.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 17 New
      0
      Iraklius, the communists not only "did not allow Turkestan to form", but literally fired artillery at the building where the members of the Turkestan government were located.
      Moreover, the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks on the territory of the ex-Russian empire began with the seizure of power in Tashkent (September 1917), and on October 29 the city was already completely in the hands of the Soviets. A resolution was issued on the arrest of members of the Turkestan Committee, which had already been ousted on October 25 in Petrograd by the Provisional Government.

      The Turkestan committee left Tashkent and continued its activities in Kokand. On November 27, at the IV Extraordinary All-Muslim Congress, held in Kokand, it was announced the creation of the Turkestan autonomy led by the Turkestan Provisional Council, which was headed by Kazakh Mukhamedzhan Tynyshpayev. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was headed by Kazakh Mustafa Shokai, but soon in connection with the departure of Tynyshpayev due to internal disagreements, he became chairman of the government.

      Turkestan (Kokand) autonomy was conceived as part of the future Russian Federation. In an opening speech, Mustafa Shokai said: “With Russia, we must live in peace and friendship. This is dictated by the geography itself. I do not accept the policy of the Soviets, but I believe in the destructive power of the Bolsheviks. ”

      Having overthrown the Provisional Government in Petrograd as a result of an armed uprising on October 25, the Bolsheviks were forced to go on to hold extremely popular elections for the All-Russian Constituent Assembly of Russia. But in the elections of November 12, 1917, the Bolsheviks received only 23,9% of the vote against 40,4% of the right-wing Social Revolutionaries. And then after the very first meeting of the Assembly elected by the people, not having received support from the deputies, they dispersed it on January 6, 1918. A demonstration in support of the Constituent Assembly was shot. The dictatorship of the proletariat and the Red Terror began.

      In such circumstances, the Kokand government announced its intention to convene its parliament on March 20, 1918 on the basis of universal direct, equal and secret ballot. Two-thirds of the seats in parliament were reserved for Muslim deputies, and one-third for non-Muslim populations. The existence of such a parliament was to be the first step towards the democratization of Turkestan. By the way, in the government of the Turkestan Soviet Republic (TASSR) formed at the same time in Tashkent, out of 14 of its members there was not a single person from the representatives of indigenous peoples. The chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Turkestan Republic, Fyodor Kolesov, a recent clerk on the Tashkent railway, said: “It is impossible to admit Muslims to the supreme authorities, since the position of the local population towards us is not defined and, moreover, they do not have any proletarian organization.” In January 1918, in response to the ultimatum presented, Shokai refused to recognize the power of the Soviets. 11 echelons with troops and artillery arrived from Moscow to Tashkent to destroy Turkestan autonomy, the Red Army soldiers of the Tashkent garrison and Armenian Dashnaks were included in the punitive detachment. On February 6, 1918, the Bolsheviks launched an assault on Kokand and in three days completely destroyed and plundered the ancient city. The response to the defeat and mass robbery of the population of Turkestan autonomy was a powerful national liberation partisan movement, called the Basmachism by the Bolsheviks and eliminated by the Soviet government only in the 30s.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 23 March 2013 20: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        “It is impossible to admit Muslims to the supreme bodies of power, since the position of the local population towards us is not defined and, moreover, they do not have any proletarian organization”

        It seems to me that this says it all. What self-determination can we talk about? Central Asia rapidly began to slide into anarchy. A couple more steps and again eastern despotism. Do you seriously believe that without the Soviet regime the region would be able to build, shape and lead something there? smile
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 21: 39 New
          +6
          You are missing that this was said by the Bolsheviks, whom the local peoples in Turkestan did not support, but at that moment did not have any troops or weapons to resist. Let me remind you that until 1917, the tsarist government in Turkestan was forbidden to import and sell to local residents not only rifles and revolvers, but even ... knives, so that the locals would not have accumulated weapons. And after the large-scale Kazakh uprising of 1916, the Russian government (even the alien white, the alien red, even the local Cossacks) were generally afraid and did not trust the locals. And you can read about this even from the newspapers of that time, even from the reports of whites / reds, even from Furmanov's "Mutiny" at worst. Therefore, not a single local was included in the Bolshevik Turkestan Committee, although there were many educated Kazakhs. They preferred to type in a semi-literate shantrap like Kolesov himself, if only he was Russian.
          And where did you see in the information about the Turkestan government hints of "eastern despotism"? Read more about this topic - Alash Orda, the Kokand government (not to be confused with the "Kokand Khanate", essno), Mustafa Shokai, Akhmet Baitursynov, Alikhan Bukeikhanov, Myrzhakyp Dulatov, Magzhan Zhumabaev - these were the main politicians of the non-Bolshevik Turkestan in those years. Find among them admirers of "oriental despotism". Moreover, what is now happening in our political relations (the Eurasian Economic Community, the CU, the Eurasian Union) was actually for the first time expressed by them as a goal to strive for.
          And then compare the biographies and deeds of the first Soviet politicians in the region. Heaven and earth. On the one (Turkestan) side, there are a galaxy of educated, adequate people, supporters of integration, economics and democracy, and on the other (Bolshevik) side there are half-literate gorlopans, nationalists (I’m not joking, this was openly written in Soviet newspapers of that period) and even notorious killers like Goloshchekina. Read, compare, then say. And as I understand it, it seems to you that in Turkestan then only wild Papuans and dull buys lived, incapable of analytical thinking.
          1. Beck
            Beck 24 March 2013 20: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Alash-Orda, Kokand government (not to be confused with the "Kokand Khanate", essno), Mustafa Shokay, Akhmet Baitursynov,


            Moscow sent 11 echelons of troops with artillery to defeat the Kokand Republic led by Mustafa Shokai. The republic was crushed by blood. And it was from here that the Basmach movement began, poisoning the blood of Moscow until the mid-30s.
    2. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 04 New
      0
      Agree. Here the author was very disappointing. It is enough to look at neighboring Afghanistan to understand what Uzbekistan expected in the event of independent development without entering the USSR.
  • sxn278619
    sxn278619 23 March 2013 18: 12 New
    +5
    Who does not understand - the author is a resident of Kazakhstan.
    “In all these cases, Kazakhstan will face a large number of migrants, legal and not so. This can change the picture in our country.

    In general, it is beneficial for us to maintain the status quo with our southern neighbors. "
    1. avt
      avt 23 March 2013 20: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: sxn278619
      Who does not understand - the author is a resident of Kazakhstan.

      Quote: Marek Rozny
      I completely agree with the author. Uzbekistan has a huge economic potential. Karimov could not and will not be able to realize it. When a more adequate and robust leader comes, the Uzbeks can quickly catch up with both Kazakhs and Russians in the economy.
      Uzbeks are a very hardworking, disciplined (compared to Kazakhs or Russians) nation. They usually have a good understanding of where and how to make money. There are millionaires and billionaires of Uzbek origin both in the Russian Federation and in the KZ. The whole problem lies with the president of this country, who, as he was a performer in the Soviet State Planning Commission, remained.

      Well then, it’s clear that the dunce Karimov does not understand the great happiness of Pan-Turkism. Here are the fins that will stick together and shine the happiness for the Uzbeks, they will begin to work. laughing In the meantime, not fate. . laughing , Karimov does not give them to listen to elbasy;
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 21: 42 New
        +3
        ABT
        where is the mention in the article about "pan-Turkism" or something like that ????
      2. Natalia777
        Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 10 New
        0
        The young and strong President Sh. Mirziyoyev has already come and changes are underway improving both the political and economic climate in Uzbekistan. I. Karimov also needs to be saluted for maintaining state ownership of all strategic sectors, defeating radical Islam and saving the people of Uzbekistan from drug addiction. It is worth noting that Uzbekistan and Russia have more than 120 international agreements in terms of security, military cooperation, the economy, science and culture. This is also the merit of Karimov and Mirziyoyev, who was the Prime Minister of Uzbekistan for many years.
        1. ksp
          ksp 7 October 2017 09: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Natalia777
          saved the people of Uzbekistan from drug addiction.

          This is of course his merit.
          But Kazakhstan in this regard request
          In terms of the number of drug addicts for every 100 thousand people, Kazakhstan is leading - 311, Kyrgyzstan - 191, Tajikistan - 108, Uzbekistan - 75. Among drug addicts, women account for no more than 6%.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 23 March 2013 19: 04 New
    +3
    Squealed from the title, this is not a sleeping giant, but an eternal parasite living on billions, but not wanting to develop them.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 20: 08 New
      +1
      I completely agree with the author. Uzbekistan has a huge economic potential. Karimov could not and will not be able to realize it. When a more adequate and robust leader comes, the Uzbeks can quickly catch up with both Kazakhs and Russians in the economy.
      Uzbeks are a very hardworking, disciplined (compared to Kazakhs or Russians) nation. They usually have a good understanding of where and how to make money. There are millionaires and billionaires of Uzbek origin both in the Russian Federation and in the KZ. The whole problem lies with the president of this country, who, as he was a performer in the Soviet State Planning Commission, remained.
      So Uzbekistan is indeed a "sleeping giant" of local importance.
      1. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 23 March 2013 20: 49 New
        0
        Uzbeks are a very hardworking, disciplined (compared to Kazakhs or Russians) nation. WHEN KHAN IS STANDING FOR SHOULDERS !!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 23: 41 New
          +1
          Uzbeks, with all their advantages, have one important significant disadvantage. they don't know how to think strategically. generally. for them only what is happening now and here is important. Kazakhs, on the contrary, easily operate with large time intervals, can easily perceive and process large tasks, but they are inferior to Uzbeks in small nuances. analogies can be drawn even from the biographies of historical figures, military operations, or simply seen in the bazaar. Kazakhs rarely think of sweeping the land in the yard, because he is busy thinking about what needs to be done so that his grandchildren live well and that for this he needs to send his son to a big city to study. or he thinks about how to give his neighbor Mykymbay at the next party next year on Nauryz more effectively in front of all the aul residents. and the Uzbek does not spend his time on "long-term" reflections, he has no time - he has to water the trees, take the cakes to the market, collect the brushwood. the life of an Uzbek is limited to the present day.
          I, exno, exaggerate, but this is precisely the key difference between the Kazakh and Uzbek mentality. Kazakhs live in the future and score for the present, and Uzbeks - on the contrary.
          therefore, in 1992, Nazarbayev already imagined the current Customs Union, and Karimov was therefore an inconsistent politician, because he does not know how to look into the future, and proceeds only from momentary situations.
      2. saygon66
        saygon66 23 March 2013 20: 58 New
        +2
        - Which of the neighbors benefits from the rise of Uzbekistan? Kirghiz, who have territorial claims to Uzbeks? To the Tajiks who dispute the rights to Samarkand and Bukhara? Or Kazakhs. whom the Uzbeks have never taken as brothers? The author of the article mentions military equipment. which with a high degree of probability will go to Uzbekistan, isn't this the main argument for uniting the peoples of Central Asia into a friendly family? PS The word "sart" was a dirty word ...
        1. tm70-71
          tm70-71 23 March 2013 21: 46 New
          +2
          We have no complaints whatsoever, it was they who wanted autonomy in the Osh oblast, it didn’t work out. But I’m afraid that there will still be talk about this while Karimov is in power, everything will be calm, and it will be visible there.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 21: 56 New
          +3
          1) The Kyrgyz have no claims on the territory of Uzbekistan. These are local Kyrgyz Uzbeks who tried to squeeze out on the territory of Kyrgyzstan. The result is logical - the Uzbeks were tough on the neck.
          2) To the Uzbeks of kindred feelings, neither Kazakhs, nor Kyrgyz, nor Turkmens especially feed. It is a fact. For us they are sarts. Turkic-speaking, but not at all native. These are sarts. Which of them nafig Turks? Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs are mentally Ukrainian and he is closer than the Uzbek. But this does not mean that Uzbekistan should be completely abstracted. We must live together, work, trade, cooperate.
          3) Even if the US army hands over all its weapons to the Uzbeks, including nuclear ones, the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz will not perceive them as a military threat anyway. In the same way, the Russians do not perceive the Koryaks or Eskimos as an adequate adversary. I'm not sorry - let them arm themselves. Moreover, they will not get anything normal from the "Afghan arsenal" anyway.
          4) The author says that for Kazakhstan the current state of Uzbekistan, in which this country is much inferior to us in economic development, is beneficial. But nevertheless, it is also unprofitable for us to allow the "Afghanization" of RU. It is always good when there is a normal calm neighbor nearby who lives well, but "a little poorer", or at least not much richer))) In general, the interaction of our economies would be superb. It would be a blessing for Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrgyz, and even Russians.

          ZY Sart - and now has an abusive connotation in the mouth of a Turk. Although for the Uzbeks this is actually a former self-name, until they were given the name of nomads - "Uzbek" in the 20s of the 20th century, and nomadic Uzbeks (real) were mixed with more numerous Sarts and pure Tajiks.
          1. Alibekulu
            23 March 2013 22: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            For us they are sarts. Turkic-speaking, but not at all native. These are the sarts. Which of them nafig Turks? Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs are mentally Ukrainian and he is closer than the Uzbek.
            Now, I'm sorry .. heresy recourse I will say: Shot it seems to me that the real "Oz Beim" are Kazakhs repeat
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 40 New
              +3
              This is not heresy. In fact, it is - real Uzbeks are ... Kazakhs. That part of our people, from which we separated during the times of Janibek and Kerey, dissolved among the more numerous Sarts and Tajiks, after the Soviet government merged them administratively into one "Soviet nationality". So, only we, who call ourselves "Cossack", remained of the real Uzbek people. And the name Uzbek "vEzapno" appeared in the Sarts ... Now there is nothing to be done. The phrase "Ozbek - oz agam" no longer makes sense after the Sarts turned into "Uzbeks".
              1. Alibekulu
                23 March 2013 23: 52 New
                +2
                Ethnonyms proper "ozbek" и "Kazak" are synonymous. Or "Kazak" is tracing paper notation "ozbek"
                "Oz run" ie Uzbek translates as "his own master."
                so it can be concluded that the translation is almost identical, the translation of the ethnonym "Kazak" IMHO ...
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 00: 09 New
                  +1
                  Duc, the Kazakhs always translated the word "ozbek" ("Uzbek") as "his own master". It was Russian historiography that attributed the Uzbeks to the Khan of the Golden Horde, Uzbek. They say, in honor of him they took a name for themselves.
                  Abulkhair took power in a shard of Tokhtamyshevsky ulus in what is now Russian Siberia and northern Kazakhstan and called his state "Ozbek Khandygy". And when he captured the Sart cities on the territory of present-day Uzbekistan, the capital of the Uzbek Khanate moved from Tyumen (then called Chingi-Tura) to Tashkent. Since then, the concept of "Uzbek" has remained in that territory.
                  Z.Y. Few people in Russia know that initially Uzbekistan was located on the territory of the Russian Federation)))))
    2. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 20 New
      0
      Yes, you fell off the moon. Everything is being developed by Khauzaz, and Shady, and Ustyurt, and Gissar, and Kandym, and Surgil .... Several oil refineries and gas refineries have been built, new pipelines have been built to transport gas for export and oil transportation in Uzbekistan. Mining and processing enterprises have been built for non-ferrous and precious metal ore deposits and for the production of fertilizers. Only potash fertilizers are exported 100 million a year. They mainly build South Korea, China, Russia and Uzbekistan. We are building on a large scale throughout the Republic - both industrial construction and social construction. We have been building for 20 years - hard and will continue. On YouTube or something, sometimes go and see. There are many films. And the news on the Internet, read which factories have launched.
  • Black
    Black 23 March 2013 20: 43 New
    +4
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Uzbeks are a very hardworking, disciplined (compared to Kazakhs or Russians) nation.

    Well, if you are not an Uzbek. If an Uzbek is sad, you cannot praise yourself.
    It is foolish to attribute to an entire nation some qualities related to the individual.
    The Germans are pedantic, the Americans are indifferent, the Russians are drunkards, the Jews are cunning ..... Bullshit.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 21: 44 New
      +3
      Maine - kazakpyn. Kazakh I.
    2. Alibekulu
      23 March 2013 22: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: Chen
      Well, if you are not an Uzbek.
      Yes Kazakh he .. wink kakak ...
  • amp
    amp 23 March 2013 21: 25 New
    -5
    The country of the 3rd world, like some Angola.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 31 New
      +4
      Once on the territory of Uzbekistan (and in general Turkestan) there were observatories and globes, but at the same time savages lived in Europe. A native of the Uzbek (Karakalpak) city of Kiyat - al-Biruni wrote about the sphericity of the Earth and the heliocentric system of our Universe 500 years before the Europeans burned Giordano Bruno.
      By the way, the same Biruni is the author of the concept of "algebra". And the word "algorithm" in science appeared on behalf of the Uzbek scientist Al-Khorezmi.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 23: 03 New
        +2
        and even before the heap, you can recall other Turkestanis - "Kazakh" Al-Farabi, who in medieval Europe was called "the second Teacher of the world after Aristotle", "Tajik" Avicenna (Ibn Sina), and even Omar Khayyam, who not only glorified alcohol in Islamic society, but also derived a mathematical unit, which is now called "Newton's bin".
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 24 March 2013 16: 41 New
        +1
        Of course, the Uzbeks! Not Kazakhs wink
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 16: 53 New
          +1
          because then there was still no division into Uzbeks / Kazakhs / Karakalpaks, then conditionally - Al-Farabi from the city of Otrar - Kazakh, Biruni from the city of Kiyat - Karakalpak, Al-Khorezmi from Khorezm - Uzbek, etc.
          1. Earthman
            Earthman 24 March 2013 20: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            because then there was still no division into Uzbeks / Kazakhs / Karakalpaks, then conditionally - Al-Farabi from the city of Otrar - Kazakh, Biruni from the city of Kiyat - Karakalpak, Al-Khorezmi from Khorezm - Uzbek, etc.

            Few people know that Tsiolkovsky himself took rocket models from Central Asians. That is, the idea that you can fly to the moon.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 21: 21 New
              +2
              and generally Tsiolkovsky - Kazakh)))
            2. Octavian avgust
              Octavian avgust 25 March 2013 22: 51 New
              +4
              Quote: Earthman
              Few people know that Tsiolkovsky himself took rocket models from Central Asians. That is, the idea that you can fly to the moon.

              Surely! After all, they themselves have abandoned the space program and not to lose good! wassat
              1. Earthman
                Earthman 25 March 2013 22: 56 New
                +1
                Quote: Octavian avgust
                Surely! After all, they themselves have abandoned the space program and not to lose good!

                Well yes. how the technical heritage of the USSR was also used by many countries after the collapse
    2. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 29 New
      0
      Immediately felt the word swamp liberoid. You look in a YouTube disease. Uzbekistan - SUPER! Both for life and for relaxation. Tashkent is handsome! Avenues in 12 lanes, palaces, monuments, fountains - thousands, flowers around, parks - water parks - more than 50 parks - relax citizens with comfort, museums, cinemas. Cities are surrounded by greenery. Eat - please - at every step. For $ 2 you can overeat and very tasty. Live and be happy. One problem - a population growth rate of 25% over 68 years - plants do not have time to build - do not keep up with such a birth rate. But Russia helps out - everyone goes to Russia for seasonal work.
  • nagi
    nagi 23 March 2013 22: 03 New
    -3
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    You still say that the Uzbek khanates voluntarily asked to be part of the Russian empire ..

    According to the directories, the Uzbek Khanate was not part of the Russian Empire. Since the years of life of this Khanate are 1428-1500. The Kokand Khanate was already included in the RI. I did not read in detail how it was attached, but the wiki indicates that the transfer of part of the tribes to the citizenship of the Republic of Ingushetia caused a conflict between the Republic of Ingushetia and the Kokand Khanate. which ended with his joining the RI.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 22: 48 New
      +4
      Nagi, I wrote "Uzbek Khanates", not the Uzbek Khanate. The term "Uzbek khanates" means the Kokand Khanate, the Bukhara Emirate, the Khiva Khanate.
      And the state, which was called the "Uzbek Khanate", ended when the present Kazakhs left the first "Uzbek" khan Abulhayir and subsequently almost all nomads left for the departed, leaving Abulhayir in subordination only to the Sarts and small subgroups of the Uzbeks themselves - nomads. Those Uzbeks who were piled from Abulkhair called themselves "Cossacks" (this political term means anyone who does not recognize someone's power). Soon, this political term familiar to the Turks became the ethnic self-name of the people, which is known to Russians under the distorted name "Kazakh".

      ZY In the Wiki, apparently this section is so peacefully written)))) "the conflict ended with the accession to the Republic of Ingushetia"))))))) It is necessary to look)
    2. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 33 New
      0
      And if you look at the maps of Tartaria (that was the name of the Russian Empire before Peter) - then all the khanates entered Tartar - up to the Chinese wall. ISTORIC science is the most inaccurate of all sciences to date.
  • wax
    wax 23 March 2013 22: 14 New
    +5
    A country with thirty million young people will no doubt say its weighty word in Central Asia. The policy towards Uzbekistan on the part of Russia must be very balanced, and it cannot be allowed to turn it into the patrimony of America.
    1. Natalia777
      Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 37 New
      0
      Thanks for good words. Russia and Uzbekistan are closely cooperating in all areas from the agreement on military cooperation to the economy, education and culture. More than 120 international treaties have been concluded between Russia and Uzbekistan, and only 3 treaties with the United States. The difference is on the face. Although Uzbekistan politely greets all Western "partners".
  • gabatikuk
    gabatikuk 23 March 2013 22: 46 New
    +5
    Thank you .... the article is good.
  • elmi
    elmi 23 March 2013 23: 33 New
    +3
    The article is instructive, but in my opinion the article is Bolshevat
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 23: 51 New
      +4
      In general, I'm surprised that she appeared here on the site. This article is for "intra-Kazakh" consumption, it is focused on Kazakhs. The Russians (don't be offended) have not yet woken up to digest this article. They are not interested in the prospects of Uzbekistan, but in the current problems with migrant workers. Such articles in Russia will be of interest to the average person in three or four years, when (I hope) the intensity regarding ghasts will subside, but at the same time interest in the Central Asian part of the emerging Eurasian Union will increase.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 23 March 2013 23: 58 New
        +3
        Although I suspect that the admins posted it, because they drew attention to the part that talks about the possible consequences of introducing a visa regime for citizens of Uzbekistan. I can, of course, be mistaken. It is still interesting to the Russians now.
        By the way, this Kazakhstani article has been almost 8 months old, while it seems that Russia has not yet raised the topic of toughening the conditions of stay of citizens of the southern CIS republics. In my opinion, then in Russia political scientists and journalists did not raise this topic at all. This is only recently the Russian government voiced.
        1. Alibekulu
          24 March 2013 00: 43 New
          +3
          Marek Rozny
          In the "Opinions" rubric there are absolutely different opinions, articles of site visitors, as well as articles from other sites for discussion.
          thus and you and any of the members of the forum "VO" can, how to write an article, and put
          any interesting article ..
        2. elmi
          elmi 24 March 2013 14: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          By the way, this Kazakhstani article has been almost 8 months old,

          Your intuition does not let you down, click on the link in the lower left corner of the article and you will immediately understand everything. Date of publication from "Center of Asia" magazine
          September / October 2012.
          I support the author of the placement Alibekulu, any forum member can find any article suitable for this site and post it.
      2. Iraclius
        Iraclius 24 March 2013 14: 31 New
        +4
        I am sincerely interested in the history of Central Asia and cherish the dream of going there to see everything with my own eyes and chat with people.
        I am sure that such articles are just very timely and need reading in Russia. It's time to end the stupid stereotypes of Central Asia = migrant workers.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 16: 01 New
          +5
          If you are going to Kazakhstan, write in a personal. I’ll give my phone number and address in Astana. I will gladly show all the sights. True, in Astana they are all modern) And it is better to look at historical places in Zap. and South KZ and in Uzbekistan (Tashkent, Bukhara, Samarkand, Khiva, etc.). In Kyrgyzstan - beautiful nature - mountains, lakes.
          And everywhere there is very satisfying and tasty food - Kazakhs and Kyrgyz will feed useful horsemeat and koumiss, Uzbeks, Uighurs and Dungans - in general a bunch of drop dead dishes. And there are local Koreans, Germans, Slavs and other ethnic groups. Kazakhstan is not much different from Russia in all respects; Uzbekistan is a more colorful eastern region. There is no hostility towards Russians and Russians. Almost all speak Russian. The region is very diverse and motley. Everywhere there is a different architecture, nature, mentality, standard of living. There is everything - from traffic jams from Bentley to yurts with shepherds, from Jewish synagogues to Hare Krishnas, from cold steppes to deserts, from large water spaces to majestic mountains.
          In Almaty oblast alone, one can find deserts, and steppes, and mountains, and alpine meadows, and forests, and large lakes, and even canyons, as in the United States.
          In a word, kosh keldiniz! Welcome)

          Z.Y. About my phone and address in Astana - I'm not joking. As long as it will be necessary - stop as much as I have.
      3. avt
        avt 24 March 2013 14: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Such articles in Russia will be interesting for the layman in three or four years, when (I hope) the intensity regarding the Gastas will subside, but at the same time, interest in the Central Asian part of the emerging Eurasian Union will increase.

        What is interesting will happen in three to four years? request Is it possible that all "entrepreneurs" who use an almost slave labor force, squeezing out their 300% percent in excess of profits, will pay and begin to treat people not like cheap, wordless cattle? Or will such an industrial boom in the region begin, with a persistence, that even Mexicans will illegally break not to the hated gringos, but to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan? Will the dream of Akayev and Kyrgyzstan, hiding from compatriots in Moscow, come true, as he wanted to become an Asian Switzerland, and probably the Swiss will spit and move to Bishkek? I would very much like to be mistaken, but no customs, Eurasian union will stop the level of growing negative attitudes towards migrants. Especially since people brought up in an Empire called the USSR simply physically end up for age reasons. And the younger generation, not only has no common ideas, has no common language. This is the price for building independent national states and the Yeltsin Supreme Council of the RSFSR adopted the declaration of independence. awn given in the sensation. You can try, of course, Pan-Turkism, but before someone comes to Russia to explain that he is the main Turk, a lot of people will be cut in the region. There have already been precedents, and it must be said, the former “colonialists” extinguished internecine strife both in Tajikistan and in Kyrgyzstan. Well, I won’t talk about our overseas pale-faced friends, everything has been said and done long ago, and by themselves.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 16: 12 New
          +3
          1) I believe that the Russian authorities during this time will find a more or less mechanism that will alleviate the problem with illegal migrants from Uzbekistan.
          2) In a few years, the Russian media will discuss Kyrgyzstan, which by then will enter the CU, looking for the pros and cons for Russia and the CU in this. At the same time, IMHO, they will talk about the prospects of Uzbekistan joining our integration field (Karimov is eternal).
          3) Uzbeks begin to engage in oil production in the Aral Sea. This should contribute to the improvement of their economy, and therefore some part of the workforce will return from Russia to their homeland.
          4) Not only Kazakhstanis and Kyrgyzstanis are in the Russian information field and watch the same programs and read the same news, but Uzbeks and Tajiks are well informed about the processes in Russia and in the general region. Only Turkmenistan has completely fallen out of the loop. Roughly speaking, "Dom-2" is watched by young people in Tashkent, Bishkek, and Dushanbe)

          Pan-Turkism is a ridiculous bogey in the Russian media. Yes, the Turks usually treat each other warmly, but no one seriously talks about the creation of a single state "for the Turks." You fraternize with the Bulgarians and Serbs, but you don’t create one state with them?
          1. avt
            avt 24 March 2013 16: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            ) I believe that the Russian authorities during this time will find a more or less mechanism that will alleviate the problem of illegal migrants

            What a fright? More precisely, only with an increase in hatred of migrants, caused by the cause of which I have already spoken.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            2) In a few years, the Russian media will discuss Kyrgyzstan, which by then will enter the CU, looking for the pros and cons for Russia and the CU in this. At the same time, IMHO, they will talk about the prospects of Uzbekistan joining our integration field (Karimov is eternal).

            Already and, as it were, softer, not very rosy. The face is very serious contradictions between regional states, plus the Amer factor.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            ) Uzbeks begin to engage in oil production in the Aral Sea. This should contribute to the improvement of their economy, and therefore some part of the workforce will return from Russia to their homeland.

            I don’t want to say harshly, let it be so, let’s wait and see. Personally, I don’t believe. But the fact that in the near future they will be a real lever to put pressure on the rulers of their states and this will not improve the mood at the household level between people, a fact that cannot be disputed.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Not only Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are in the Russian information field and watch the same programs and read the same news, but also Uzbeks and Tajiks are fully informed about the processes in Russia and in the general region. Only Turkmenistan has completely fallen out of the loop. Roughly speaking, "Dom-2" is watched by young people in Tashkent, Bishkek, and Dushanbe)

            Well, maybe they watch all the porn, but life is not a movie, when you see who we say ten years ago and in what quantities was on the street, and who is now throwing cars at Yaroslavka in search of money, as a kind picture does not grow together.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Pan-Turkism is an absurd bugbear in the Russian media.

            laughing It seems that I missed something in the Russian media, but oh well.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 24 March 2013 17: 42 New
              +3
              Wait and see)
      4. Natalia777
        Natalia777 7 October 2017 09: 44 New
        0
        Russia cannot do without workers from Uzbekistan Constantly there are requests from Russian business for labor from Uzbekistan. Cooperation between Russia and Uzbekistan has been going on for a long time, and a lot. The Russian Federation is building and repairing power plants, building extractive industries, and oil and gas processing plants. Opened several branches of higher education institutions from the Russian Federation.
    2. Alibekulu
      24 March 2013 00: 16 New
      +4
      elmi :
      The article is instructive, but in my opinion the article is Bolshevat

      Leo Tolstoy, a participant in the Crimean company, became interested in how and why RI lost ..
      These searches led him to the events of the 1825 year, which in many respects predetermined the nature of the reign of Nicholas I.
      In turn, in order to understand what prompted the Decembrists to enter the Senate Square, it is impossible to understand without turning to 1812 in the year ... and so on. etc
      So "War and Peace" appeared ....
      Why am I yes - As a rule, ordinary people know little about Ozbekiston and about various local nuances and cannot understand them, if you don’t delve into the History ... hi
      1. elmi
        elmi 24 March 2013 14: 28 New
        +5
        I agree with you - without a history of the past, there is no future.
      2. Earthman
        Earthman 24 March 2013 21: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Leo Tolstoy, a participant in the Crimean company, became interested in how and why RI lost ..
        These searches led him to the events of the 1825 year, which in many respects predetermined the nature of the reign of Nicholas I.
        In turn, in order to understand what prompted the Decembrists to enter the Senate Square, it is impossible to understand without turning to 1812 in the year ... and so on. etc
        So "War and Peace" appeared ....
        Why am I - As a rule, ordinary people don’t know much about Ozbekiston and about various local nuances and don’t understand them if you don’t delve into History ...

        This is how we now think by default, for example, with the word EGYPT, it seems that the pharaohs and all that, and if we find ourselves there, then when we dredge, you will find layers of history that overlap each other in culture, language, mentality.
        But you definitely can’t say anything about China, just like about the USA
        1. Octavian avgust
          Octavian avgust 25 March 2013 22: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Earthman
          But you definitely can’t say anything about China, just like about the USA

          Well, you probably think so to yourself! You have to cook this topic! bully
  • Alibekulu
    24 March 2013 11: 18 New
    0
    [quote = nagi] [quote] ... themselves kissed the hand of the Russian Tsar to join the Russian Empire.
    You would remember how and to whom and what the Russian princes kissed in the Horde ... tongue
    Here is an example reflected in your Russian chronicles:
    "About more evil than evil Tatar honor: Danilov Romanovich was the prince of the great, who possessed the Russian land, Kiev and Volodimer and Galich ... now sits on his knee and is called a slave ..... Oh evil Tatarskaya honor - his father was a tsar in the Russian land, who like conquer the Polovtsian land and fight in other countries all "...
    In general, something like that request There are other examples ...
  • Ali Baba
    Ali Baba 25 March 2013 10: 28 New
    -2
    Hmm ... they are discussing an article about Ymperets, who doesn’t even see the difference in Kyrgyz and Kazakh, and the boastful Kazakh who thinks strategically for those who don’t give a damn about them soon ... guys, go ahead and discuss, I don’t know who the Kazakh is better than a horse or a Cossack with a saber without a horse ... and the measure you personally began to call Kazakhs only in the 20s, and so you are karakirghizs, that is, black Kirghiz and black in the east you yourself know what it means;) that is, the lower Kyrgyz here is your ethonym.
    1. Alibekulu
      25 March 2013 14: 56 New
      +3
      Hmm .. finally the Uzbeks appeared lol It is interesting to hear their opinion, so to speak firsthand what And that's all: the Kazakhs, the Great Russians, the Kirghiz, etc. ....
      1. Ali Baba
        Ali Baba 26 March 2013 14: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Alibekulu

        Hmm .. finally, the Uzbeks appeared It is interesting to hear their opinion, so to speak first-hand. And that’s all: Kazakhs, Great Russians, Kyrgyz, and so on ....

        And what to quote :) We live here and we have a peculiar economy that is not in a fever from speculation by speculators in stock markets that lead to the crisis of the country and our citizens :) We still have a piece of the union, we did not sell our bowels to foreign investors like many of our neighbors there is the main resource and potential is our people and most importantly we see that the state is trying and taking steps to return labor migrants to their homeland, which is why they even adopted the state program. We are not afraid to raise children and we do not suffer from the Napoleon complex as our neighbors and do not ascribe great victories to us; our history and we do not need to rub it with our neighbors as karakirgiz :) Our army has experience in fighting in northern Afghanistan and Tajikistan, unlike the ostentatious Marekov Serikov who saw the Taliban only on TV and that's it ... that’s not so bad for us, even the most successful Uzbek Gaster always wants to return to his homeland almost 100% because she is dear to him and this is important.
        1. Beck
          Beck 26 March 2013 15: 35 New
          +5
          Quote: Ali Baba
          personally, they started to call you Kazakhs only in the 20s, and so you are karakirghizs, that is, black Kirghiz and black in the east you know what it means;) that is, the lower Kyrgyz here is your ethonym.


          Well, I disagree with that. The ethnonym ҚazaҚ as well as the ethnonym ӨzbeҚ arose in the mid-15th century. ӨzbeҚ somewhat earlier as a collective name, but as an ethnonym for a certain people in the 15th century.

          During and after the death of the Khan of the Golden Horde of Uzbek, Turkic tribes east of the Volga gradually assumed the collective name of Uzbek, Uzbek. In historical chronicles, they are found as Uzbek fellows, nomadic Uzbeks. This name is assigned to the Turks of the Khanate of Abu al-Khair of 1412-1468, stretching from the Urals to the Irtysh and from Tyumen to the lower reaches of Amu and Syr-Daria.

          All Türks had an ancient custom to leave young men and young men to Cossacks, to lead a life of adventure. At this time, the Cossack Turks did not have the power of the khan and social obligations to the clan, aul. They lived along the borders of tribal territories by hunting and dashing raids on adjacent territories. And at any time, having shown, the Turk could return to his village and recognize the power of the khan. In the Turkic-Arabic dictionary compiled in Egypt in 1245, the word Cossack is translated as a free wanderer. And the Cossacks at one time were Khan Abu-el-Khair, and the son of Zan Tokhtamysh Jamaladin, and the Sultan Husain.

          In 1460, the sultans Janibek and Giray, dissatisfied with the policies of Abu al-Khair, went to the Cossacks. But in violation of traditions they left not alone, but with all the tribes subject to them. and they all began to be nicknamed Cossacks - Biz Cossactar - we are Cossacks. After the death of Abu al-Khair in 1468, Janibek and Giray seized power in the steppe, and annexed other tribes, and the descendants of Abu al-Khair, the Sheybanids, along with their close associates, were expelled to the territory of present-day Uzbekistan. This is how the collective name nomadic Uzbeks in the steppe was renamed the ethnonym Cossacks. And the Sheibanids, retaining the name Uzbek, spread it to the Turkic tribes of the present territory of Uzbekistan.

          That there was no confusion in the clerical work of tsarist Russia, that there was no confusion between the Cossacks of the steppe and Russian Cossacks descended from the Turkic tradition, they began to call us Kyrgyz, Kaisaks, Kyrgyz Kaisaks. In 20 years, so as not to be confused with the true Kyrgyz, now the councils returned to our original self-name, only the last letter K was replaced with the letter X.

          And some of Marek’s statements are really quite extravagant and do not contribute to strengthening good-neighborly relations between the two fraternal peoples.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 59 New
          +3
          Yeah, the Uzbek government, unlike its neighbors, has not brought its people to the crisis. therefore, Uzbeks go to work for a penny in Russia and Kazakhstan.

          This is when the Uzbek army fought in Afghanistan ???

          Kazakhs stayed in Tajikistan much more than Uzbeks.

          I know enough Afghans of all stripes. And what kind of Afghan bread tastes literally - I can easily tell.
          1. Natalia777
            Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 34 New
            0
            Think about it if you have something. The population growth over 25 years is 68%. If for example Russia loads 100 million young workers, what will happen to jobs? Yes, any country will squeeze from such an increase in population. There you will not have time to build so many factories and enter the market. So they go to work in Russia. Although they themselves are excellent at home and hundreds of sheep graze in the steppe.
        3. Natalia777
          Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 38 New
          0
          Agree with you. But in the 90s, Uzbekistan went on its own hard and severe financial crisis, and unemployment, and the attacks of international Islamic terrorism. We survived and now Uzbekistan is growing and blooming. That all strategic sectors and mineral resources remained in the state property of Uzbekistan is a fact.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 55 New
      +2
      Ali Baba
      1) Kazakhs from the 15th century call themselves "Cossacks".
      2) Russian authorities called the Kyrgyz people karakirgizs.
      3) the word "kara" in Turkic actually can mean not only "black", but also "simple" ("kara budun" - "commoners") and "great / huge" ("kara khan" - "great khan "," kara tengiz "-" big sea / lake "," kara bakh "-" big garden ").
      1. Ali Baba
        Ali Baba 27 March 2013 17: 26 New
        -1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Ali Baba
        1) Kazakhs from the 15th century call themselves "Cossacks".
        2) Russian authorities called the Kyrgyz people karakirgizs.
        3) the word "kara" in Turkic actually can mean not only "black", but also "simple" ("kara budun" - "commoners") and "great / huge" ("kara khan" - "great khan "," kara tengiz "-" big sea / lake "," kara bakh "-" big garden ").

        Yes, of course, Adam was also a Kazakh ... and Noah too ... good here to scratch the stories invented by your historians. Open the map of 1924 and look carefully at where the Kyrgyz SSR is and where the Karakir SSR will fall into place.
  • FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 25 March 2013 15: 32 New
    +1
    In this community on Odnoklassniki, a comrade from Uzbekistan burns on the topic of aviation and space
    http://www.odnoklassniki.ru/dk?st.cmd=altGroupAlbumPhotos&st.groupId=aoculgofeah

    gtoinh0rfruynxkswjgxxmik & st.albumId = aoculgofeahgtoinh0rzdivbzopzjklxxhx

    An adult (as he himself says) invented the Shuttle in all seriousness. Here is such an education.
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek 25 March 2013 22: 22 New
    +6
    In short, the Kazakhs and the Uzbeks until they figure out who is cooler in Central Asia will not calm down. laughing
  • arseke
    arseke April 10 2013 01: 46 New
    +2
    Perhaps in Kazakhstan there used to be some precedents with the oppression and discrimination of the Russian population, but now there are none. The country is developing and the people believe in a bright and peaceful future.
    In order for you to have some kind of picture about what Kazakhstan is striving for here are links to interesting and high-quality videos in my opinion:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG985Y4ZXeA&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrHW_MLyYgA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qJl_xxfcPg&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-g6SZkvXc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uz4mJgP_cw&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gVW5374-hXs

    Perhaps they may seem biased and campaigning, but they are still interesting

    Notice how many representatives of the non-titular nation are on the video and what is strange is that no one oppresses or expels them from the country. They occupy very high posts and look quite happy.

    I myself am Kazakh, full of friends not Kazakhs + relatives - Russians, Germans, Bashkirs, Tatars. We all live peacefully and normally

    Maybe I am also a hopeless optimist, but I believe in the bright future of our Kazakhstan and its allies.
    Peace to your homes, friends!
  • T-baev
    T-baev 29 May 2013 18: 33 New
    -1
    The author is absolutely far from the realities in Uzbekistan. And he gives this opus as an analysis of the state of internal and external countries. And the forum users are led to this crap. Well, such forum users.
  • Natalia777
    Natalia777 7 October 2017 07: 17 New
    0
    I live in Uzbekistan, a citizen of Uzbekistan. I want to say briefly about today's Uzbekistan. Over 25 years, the population growth is 68%, the average age of citizens is 27 years. For 25 years, hundreds of schools, colleges and colleges have been built - there are special programs for the construction of educational institutions and financing. All children learn - it is impossible to dodge. Children do not pick cotton - at all! The law prohibits attracting children to harvest cotton and vegetables - a criminal liability. Classes in schools in 2 shifts, Russian-language schools are in high demand, Uzbeks pay a bribe of $ 500 to get a child in a Russian-language school. There are no American bases in Uzbekistan. Joint military exercises with the Russian Federation are carried out systematically - there is an international agreement with the Russian Federation on military cooperation and more than 120 international agreements between Uzbekistan and the Russian Federation. Industry is developing, and not only Avtoprom - but Khimprom and Livestock and the production of consumer goods. Almost everything is produced, with the exception of ships, aircraft and military equipment. Dozens of gas - oil refineries, and gas pipelines and oil pipelines have been built, new electric stations - equipment and specialists - Russian, are being commissioned. Gas is exported. Small business blooms lush - many services to the population of small businesses are fully exempt from taxes for 10 years. Small business uses preferential taxation - is subject to a preferential rate of the Single Tax Payment of 2% to 5% of turnover - and pays nothing more. All cities are under construction - large-scale construction does not stop - state housing programs also work. Now for work - jobs are not enough due to the rapid population growth. This is a problem and therefore people go to seasonal work in the Russian Federation. The salary is the smallest - $ 150, on average, the salary of a skilled employee and worker is from $ 300-500 and up to $ 1500, a very tight and tasty meal costs $ 2, meat tenderloin is 7-8 dollars, fruit and vegetables are very expensive - from 20 cents. Cushions in Tashkent can be bought for 15 thousand dollars. In the regions, many keep the economy - sheep, chickens, cows, etc. and from this they live perfectly. Uzbekistan retained state ownership of strategic sectors - the railway, spirtprom and vinprom, air transportation, energy, mining - precious semiprecious and chemical industry (fertilizers). Alcohol is produced by the state - but bottling is private traders. Wine is entirely with the state. Automotive industry including all auxiliary plants - 50% - state share. At many large industrial enterprises, the state share is from 25% and higher. Some 15 auxiliary plants of the automobile industry were created somewhere - this is glass - 100%, motor glass, etc. And the assembly of cars on the main thing is in Andijan. Of course, they import something for the automotive industry. Here at the forum, hired American bedding and miscarriages spoils and lies a lot about Uzbekistan - they want to split between Uzbekistan and Russia. DO NOT BELIEVE PROVOCATORS. Uzbekistan - Russia - friendship forever.
  • KISl2017
    KISl2017 2 November 2017 19: 42 New
    0
    The author intentionally distorts the story. It turns out before the advent of the Russian Empire and then the Bolsheviks there was no Uzbekistan - the place where the Uzbeks and the Uzbeks themselves lived. Wake up, Akimbekov! Where is the conquering period of Central Asia by the Macedonian? Where are the Arabs, the Mongols, the Chinese Karakhanids, the paybones? Finally Amir Timur? Who lived here, fought with them and in their ranks? Why is the language of the peoples common - Turkic? Calling the Uzbeks sarts, does the writer compliment himself or is he provocatively motivated by nationalism? There was a large nation (clan, tribe), the backbone of statehood in Central Asia - the Turks. There was a specialization-division of labor: nomads and farmers. And that’s it. Next - the colonial wars, internecine wars, for power and divide and rule. I have it.