Military Review

How the Red Army helped Bandera Hitler to win. To the 70 anniversary of the politically incorrect release

109
How the Red Army helped Bandera Hitler to win. To the 70 anniversary of the politically incorrect releaseIn connection with the 70 anniversary of the beginning of the liberation of the Ukrainian SSR from the German invaders, the Russian Center for Science and Culture in Kiev gave a presentation of the monograph of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies (RISI) “I will tell you about the war ...” The work is devoted to displaying the Second World War in textbooks and in the consciousness of high school students post-socialist states. The results of the work can not but alarm everyone who is not indifferent to the worldview of generations entering adulthood.


At the first stage, scientists considered textbooks storiesthen there were school essays and youth polls about the popularity of various war films (Soviet, American, Russian, etc.), computer games based on World War II, etc.

"Ordinary fascism" we will not see?

The results of the research were presented by the deputy director of RISI, the head of the Center for the Study of the Problems of the CIS Countries, Doctor of Historical Sciences Tamara GUZENKOVA. 2000 was able to talk to her immediately after the presentation.

Tamara Semyonovna, Professor Gennady Matveyev, Head of the Department of History of Southern and Western Slavs of Moscow State University, who, along with Natalia Narochnitskaya, acted as a reviewer of labor, called it “a signal and the greatest know-how - to show how children see war in conditions of a dangerous situation for historical consciousness in our country” . For Ukraine, where the heroes of the past days become villains in textbooks and vice versa, this danger is obvious. Are such problems just as relevant for other states?

- More-less. In general, textbooks can be divided into 3 groups.

The first is conceptually close to the late Soviet version, according to which the USSR contributed to the victory thanks to the socialist system, the communist ideology and the moral and political unity of the Soviet people. Here there is a positive image of the Soviet leadership in its depersonification (with regard to the activities of Stalin). And the result of victory, apart from salvation from the “brown plague”, is the people's democratic revolutions in the countries of Eastern Europe and the emergence of a socialist camp.

Are such textbooks still available?

- Imagine being released. In this respect, Belarus and Transdniestria are closest to the Soviet tradition, in many respects - Armenia, in part - Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.

The following group (these are a significant part of textbooks from Russia, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Tajikistan, and the aforementioned Kazakhstan with Uzbekistan) we have attributed to the so-called. transformed concept. This includes most war history manuals. They already have new themes (life in the war years, the role of women in war, relations between people and authorities, the Holocaust, etc.) and previously forbidden (Katyn, repression, critical attitude to the Soviet socio-economic system, condemnation of the actions of the Soviet leadership in the early stages of the war). Collaboration is viewed sympathetically or neutrally. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is condemned.

And finally, a radically revised concept. Here an equal sign is put between Hitler and Stalin. Both are regarded as dictators who have unleashed a war in their own interests. Consequently, equal responsibility for it rests with the USSR and Germany. In these textbooks, the contribution of the Soviet Union to victory — toward increasing the role of allies — is substantially revised. The determining factors that the USSR resisted were enormous human resources (the formula was “abandoned with cannon fodder”) and climatic conditions (the notorious “General Frost”). The latter is very characteristic of Polish, Czech and Ukrainian textbooks.

The role of the Soviet Union is interpreted differently depending on the periods of the war: until 22 June 1941, the USSR was an invader; then, in the spring of 1944, the leading defensive (sometimes domestic) war; and as soon as the Red Army crosses the border of its state - again the invader. In one of the Ukrainian textbooks 2007 (Tatyana Ladichenko), even Germany’s ally Romania appears among the victims of Soviet aggression. As for collaborators, in many countries they are turning into national heroes, "true fighters against fascism."

Previously, this group included all Ukrainian textbooks from the beginning of 2000's. Approximately at that time Ukraine refused to use the term “Great Patriotic War”. Moreover, in many textbooks, he signs in detail why for Ukraine this war "was not domestic." Especially - in the textbooks for teachers. If for the Belarusians the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is a necessary measure, for the Ukrainian educational system it is an agreement that hastened the outbreak of war. The Soviet Union is a totalitarian state along with Germany and Italy.

The Soviet partisan movement and the UPA are regarded as equivalent currents in the resistance movement in Ukraine, but if the former was directed against fascism, then the latter was against fascism and against communism. The members of the SS division “Galicia” are not war criminals (here it is the exact opposite of the Belarusian approach, where all collaborators are definitely traitors). On the basis of all this, Ukraine has made a huge and invaluable contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

One of the chapters of your authorship is called “Ukraine. The greatest sacrifice.

- Exaggeration of the contribution of its people to the victory over fascism or the losses suffered by their country in the war is what is common to textbooks of all groups.

In general, the appearance of such a national version is characteristic of the modern period: each state seemed to have had its own war. There is a feeling that it was not the Soviet Union that fought, but Ukraine, Belarus, Russia separately.

If we talk specifically about Ukraine, then textbooks began to appear in 2011, which allow it to be included in the second group. Thus, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova remain the third, and - with the toughest approach to the Great Patriotic War - Poland (the corresponding head of the doctor of historical sciences Oksana Petrovskaya is called "Poland. The Concept of Two Enemies". - D.S. .
Хотя, конечно, у второй и третьей групп очень много общего. В частности, наблюдается непрерывная дегероизация и даже «демилитаризация» войны (описание великих побед и, скажем, tank сражений заменяется социальными и культурно-нравственными сторонами войны). Это наблюдается и в ЕС, и в мире вообще.

It is considered politically incorrect to describe the horrors of war, suffering and atrocities. Less information about the concentration camps and what happened there. Therefore, now we can’t see Ordinary Fascism documentary by Mikhail Romm, shot in 1965. Authors of textbooks and textbooks are advised to avoid dating events. Thus, the usual periodization, built on the dates of key battles, is destroyed.

And this, of course, is reflected in the writings.

Memory against

In a number of countries we asked to ask the essay “I will tell you about the war. Letter of the descendants of the Second World War / Great Patriotic War. And without warning, without prior consultation with teachers and parents, without training in the library. Schoolchildren wrote on a given topic the first thing that came to mind. We were not particularly interested in the accuracy of the dates indicated by them, the name of the battles - the images, the characters with which the children operate, the feelings that they convey, what matters most to them, and what is secondary, were important.

Maybe because I am a lady, I cried over some essays as many times as I read them. However, there were a lot of indifferent, empty works.

In any case, we really got unique, completely phenomenal materials. Due to this, we came to a number of principal conclusions. I hope many will become familiar with them in detail by reading the book.

Share at least the most common, basic.

- In all countries, students perceive World War II as the largest and most terrible event of the twentieth century, and in all of history. It should be noted here, I would say, the existential fear of the new world war. Hence the rejection of the escalation of conflicts in the modern world, which are increasingly unleashed in different parts of the globe.

Most schoolchildren, by the way, are still convinced that it was the victory of the Soviet Union over Nazi Germany that saved their people from slavery and physical annihilation. They regard the hypothetical victory of Nazism as a universal catastrophe. But I would have cursed my soul if I had said that there are no other opinions on this subject.

Some writings (of course, the overwhelming minority of them) expressed regret that Nazi Germany was defeated: if the Nazis had seized, for example, Ukraine, it would now be much richer and more prosperous. Here is an example:

“I believe that during the war, all self-respecting Ukrainians would have to go for the Germans. For, in my opinion, it would be better with the Germans. Under the Soviet regime, both before the war and during the war, the people lived poorly, even the minimum subsistence level was not enough. The German command wanted to destroy the Bolshevik power and give people a free life and have their own personal property, that is: unlimited freedom of choice, land, their business, and do what they want. I condemn the USSR because it carried devastation, pain, suffering, bullying, and also I am glad that the USSR is no longer! ”

Do children raise the Third Reich in this way?

- I can not say for sure, but the fact that such works indicate our serious problems today is for sure. And these problems, of course, are largely generated by the textbooks.

How much do the assessments and preferences of schoolchildren in Ukraine differ depending on the part in which the essay was written?

- Geographically, we can talk not even about division, but about antagonism. If schoolchildren from the western regions are closest in their assessments to the views expressed in textbooks, then students from the east and south are extremely far.

What's in the center?

- When we interviewed Kiev schoolchildren, it happened that the opposite ratings of the Second World War were given by schoolchildren sitting at neighboring desks.

Here is an example of an essay opposite to the views presented in Ukrainian textbooks:

«Now there is an active census of history under the interests of the ruling elites ... The leader of the OUN (UPA) Stepan Bandera was given the title Hero of Ukraine. Whatever wrote in textbooks and the media about the OUN (UPA), remember that they were no different from the fascists and collaborated with them ... My great-grandfather told me that he remembers the "UPA soldiers." Once, his village was captured by Bandera. The head of the village council was hanged in the center of the village, and his seven children were strangled with thread ... Is this heroism ?! Dismiss ... I believe that we should be ashamed of such "heroes."

You talked about the personification of the creators of victory in different groups of textbooks. And who / what is a symbol of heroism for schoolchildren?

- Unfortunately, we could not interview all students about this. To the full one can only judge who symbolizes the feat in the Great Patriotic War for Russian schoolchildren. But they, like their Belarusian and Ukrainian peers, have one of the highest positions of the people (true, Belarusian and Ukrainian, respectively).

Pay attention to the positions: the Young Guard, Sailors, Kosmodemyanskaya, Gastello ... In 90, the attitude towards these heroes was deformed. There was a "corrosion of memory" about them. You could often hear that these were “made” heroes. They say that Kosmodemyanskaya did not have time to prove herself as a partisan, and the Sailors, instead of rushing to the embrasure, could have made a better decision ... However, it turned out that the mass consciousness of students is much more conservative than those educational versions that are present even currently, and this intergenerational memory is still preserved.

And yet, at the presentation of the research in Moscow, Vladimir Kuznechevsky, a leading researcher at the Department of Humanitarian Research at RISI, noted that “no other country, except Belarus, was able to organically evaluate and comprehend the legacy of war”.

- This is true, but even the Belarusians could not avoid the ethnocentric view of the war. When I read an essay by a Belarusian schoolgirl, where it was said that the Belarusian partisans defeated the fascists in general, and the Red Army only helped them in defeating fascism, a professor from Belarus said: the main force that crushed Germany. "

Judging by the writings, more or less distinct “national” pictures of war are everywhere ((for example, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine are often regarded as independent subjects, equal parties involved in the Great Patriotic War).

At the Kiev presentation, Academician Tolochko, who spoke after you, said that “if someone exaggerates his contribution to victory, it is not so scary - it is worse when they deny it.” In this regard, Petr Petrovich was even pleased by the stormy Ukrainian “rebuke” to Putin about his conclusion, we would have won the war without Ukraine (I’d note for readers, by the way, that Tolochko considers Putin’s answer to an incorrect question is also correct - do not humiliate the other 15 republics).

- Of course, the main thing is that Belarusian, Russian and Transnistrian schoolchildren, in any case, realize that they are the heirs of the winners, have elevated patriotic feelings, are proud of the past of the country. Therefore, they mainly describe battles and battles, unlike, say, peers from Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria - countries that are in the fascist coalition.

Those describe the war mostly through the realities of the concentration camps located on their territory. For the Czechs, moreover, the betrayal of the West in Munich (the relevant chapter is called “The Czech Republic - the First Victim of Nazism”) remains a national wound, as well as an understatement of the role of their, albeit small, Resistance movement.

Your chapter on works from the Czech Republic is called “These were years of indescribable grief, illness, fear, depression, anguish ...”

- This, as you understand, is a typical, or rather, indicative quotation from an essay. On the other hand, modern schoolchildren from these countries are so far from reality that they believe that it was possible to call back from labor camps with relatives and friends who are at large.

I will again cite Tolochko: “If Ukraine is so offended by the Putin’s response, what does the term“ Great Patriotic War? ”Discard this cognitive dissonance in the Ukrainian schoolchildren’s mass consciousness?

- Ukrainians are really divided in ratings and preferences. For many, a depressive perception of the outcome of the war is characteristic, since it is not clear who is a hero and who is a traitor. For which they fought and who won. They can not be called heroes in full either by Bandera or Kosmodemyanskaya. Some are still indecent to call those, while others no longer have “heroic potential.” I will quote from an essay:

“Ukraine was the main arena of the fight against fascism ... Ukraine has its heroes. Heroes in the ranks of the Red Army, the heroes of the UPA, the heroes of the Carpathian Ukraine.

The people of Ukraine fought for the liberation of their land from invaders. And all the fighters for the independence of Ukraine should be honored on the day of the 65 anniversary of the Victory over fascism.

Ukraine lived very poorly in the post-war period: famine, terror of the NKVD, especially in Western Ukraine, heroic resistance of the OUN and UPA, destruction of villages, families, lack of housing, clothing, transportation, extremely low standard of living and heroic restoration efforts. ”

An attempt to change the scores for very short periods of time is very bad for the psychological state of the students. And in this sense, war heroes remain in that era — they are not transferred to modern soil.

The question “who is a modern hero,” and even in a consumer society, is also relevant for Russian schoolchildren. In their writings, many of them pose the question: if tomorrow is a war, could I protect the Motherland, could I sacrifice my life? Unfortunately, we have to admit that many guys do not find this fuse in themselves. They do not understand what to defend, to fight for, to see the situation of the veterans, what is the attitude of the state towards the participants of the war ...

Patriotism is much more pronounced in the outback and small towns than in large regional centers. And simply the ideological holes in this sense are Moscow and St. Petersburg.

According to the theory of ethnogenesis of Lev Gumilyov, with the fracture, an ethnos was always saved by immigrants from a province that preserved the inertia of passionarity. So there are grounds for optimism, I think.

- Then I will strengthen your hopes with a fragment from the composition of a Bashkir girl living in a suburb of Yekaterinburg:

“May 9 youth is going to companies and goes" walk ". This year, for example, my friends and I went to the city to stare at the tanks. Go, it means, in front of us are several girls years on 14x15. Overdressed, dressed up, made up, St. George ribbons wrapped, go, laugh. And, damn, it seemed like something had enraged me. One girl has a fishtail sticking out of his pants - well, gum from the strings. And on them, too, ribbons tied. Well is this a thing? !! Our great-grandfathers put their heads! Chest honor defended! And this!!! I have no words! On cowards imposes! This is a tin, comrades, in short! And this is how we live without thinking about whether people like this, who wanted to live like this, who got up to their knees in the blood during the war. ”

I speak to Leonid Petrovich (L.P. Reshetnikov, director of RISI. - D.S.): “And let us invite this girl to the conference. He: "And let's! For the sake of this girl I will not invite two academicians, but she will come! ”

I found it with great difficulty, because the essay was signed with a pseudonym. It turned out that her father was killed when he was an entrepreneur in 90. She lives with her grandmother. She first replied to us, they say, where did she, the “worthless girl,” participate in conferences. We convinced her of the opposite. And then they asked to continue to promote their views. And a year later she entered Yekaterinburg University. Well, at least one soul was saved. And how many such souls need to be saved!

PS At the exit from the Rossotrudnichestvo building, I came across a handful of people who were “decorating” over Academician Tolochko’s phrase “I hadn’t read the book yet, but I can say with absolute certainty that such works can stop the moral decline of generations” (well, remember «Solzhenitsyn was reading..."). It turned out that they were invited to the presentation of the history teacher and director of Kiev schools. They also “save” the remaining souls.
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http://2000.net.ua/2000/aspekty/istorija/89408
109 comments
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  1. zart_arn
    zart_arn 23 March 2013 15: 42 New
    +3
    Historical science without reference to dates, an impressive approach ...
    1. opkozak
      opkozak 23 March 2013 16: 55 New
      -14
      Yes, the garbage is complete. unsatisfied ... don't know what to call. 50 years old - no children. there is no husband, and never will be ...

      Everyone has long known everyone who, how. why. why, for what reason ...
      For the very dull. Do you want to ask a question? Dial first in Google !!!


    2. densyaophyng
      densyaophyng 24 March 2013 00: 06 New
      +2


      Money a lot payment mind no
  2. cooper
    cooper 23 March 2013 16: 05 New
    -18
    Bullshit, my children go to school, there’s nothing seditious in their textbooks. Nor are there delusional translations of the classics of Russian literature.
    1. sichevik
      sichevik 23 March 2013 16: 19 New
      15
      Delirium, dear Cooper, not in the article, but in Ukrainian history textbooks. Where did you naturally introduce such a concept as "Kievan Rus - Ukraine" And then where is Kievan Rus - Russia and Kievan Rus - Belarus? And there are many such delusional examples ..
      Personally, I always believed, and now I think, that two of my grandfathers died on the fronts of World War II. And in the current Ukrainian textbooks it turns out. that there was no such war. But there was just a second World War.
      1. cooper
        cooper 23 March 2013 16: 26 New
        -14
        Well, not in defense of Yushchenko:. With Kievan Rus, not all historians really figured out, but the Great Patriotic War is still part of World War II. I read the textbooks again, I have to check the lessons with the children. There is nothing seditious there.
        1. sichevik
          sichevik 23 March 2013 18: 02 New
          17
          Once again, our people fought on the fronts of not the Second World War, but on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War and there is no need to distort.
          The eldest daughter studied at a Ukrainian school and read Ukrainian history books no less than yours. And I found a lot of delirium there.
          1. morpex
            morpex 23 March 2013 23: 09 New
            -4
            Quote: sichevik
            And I found a lot of delirium there.

            Maybe the details are nonsense, but in the summary I did not see anything delusional.
            History of Ukraine 11 class: Ukraine during the Second World War. The Great Patriotic War
            Ukraine in international politics on the eve of World War II. Soviet-German treaties 1939. The beginning of the Second World War. The entry of the Red Army into the territory of Western Ukraine. The entry of Bessarabia and northern Bukovina to the USSR and Ukrainian SSR. Sovietization of new territories. The situation in Ukraine in 1939-in the first half of 1941
            The beginning of World War II. The retreat of the Red Army. Mobilization measures and evacuation. Military events 1941-1942 years. Occupation of Ukraine. Collaborationism.
            Nazi "new order". The life of the population of Ukraine under occupation. Concentration camps and mass extermination of people. The Holocaust. Ostarbeiters. Life in evacuation.
            The movement of the Resistance and its course. Deployment of the Soviet partisan movement. OUN and UPA. The beginning of the liberation of Ukraine. Fights on the Left Bank. The liberation of Kiev. Liberation of the Right-Bank and Southern Ukraine. Forced eviction from the Crimea to the eastern regions of the USSR Tatars, Greeks, Armenians.
            completion of the expulsion of invaders from Ukraine. The situation in the western regions. The end of World War II. The heroism of the Ukrainian people. The price of victory. Culture during the war. Our land in 1939-1945
          2. morpex
            morpex 23 March 2013 23: 11 New
            -1
            Quote: sichevik
            And I found a lot of delirium there.

            and on the topic. Where's the nonsense?
            At the end of the study of the topic:

            - Determines the chronological sequence of events of the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War of their initial period and its main stages and links the content of these concepts.
            - Based on a map and other sources of information, it characterizes the geopolitical plans of the USSR and Germany with respect to Ukraine, shows on a map the territories where military events of the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War took place and the resistance movement unfolded.
            Based on various sources of information:
            - Compares the attitude to the war of various segments of the population and political forces in the Ukrainian lands;
            - Describes the heroic events of World War II;
            - Describes everyday life and determines the changes associated with the war;
            - Characterizes and compares the activities of the national and partisan anti-fascist movements, gives them their own assessment;
            - Compares different points of view regarding the activities of the OUN and the UPA during the war, gives them their own assessment;
            - Draws up characteristics and political portraits of prominent Ukrainian military commanders and war heroes;
            - Compares the different points of view existing in historical science regarding the events and stages of the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War and determines its own position;
            - He talks about the price of victory and expresses his own position regarding the role of wars in the life of mankind.
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 24 March 2013 15: 04 New
              -5
              Yes you do not worry! The meaning of the article is not in the textbook, but in showing what these Ukrainians are ungrateful reptiles (it’s still a little bit of a people to quarrel). The fact that in Russia the monuments of the Great Patriotic War are demolished, the author prefers not to notice.
              http://www.wazzup.su/other/interesnoe/36930-snos-pamyatnika-40-letiyu-pobedy-v-v
              ov-v-ivanove.html
              It is much easier to gossip over Ukraine, for this the editor will not give a hat.
  3. sichevik
    sichevik 23 March 2013 16: 05 New
    20
    The blame for this acne is pimpled - Yushchenko. It was with him that all scum came up, it was with him that history textbooks began to be rewritten. It was with him that they began to honor and elevate the rank of heroes of SS men. It was he who began to appropriate the titles of heroes to Hitler mongrel. It was he, with a to, who spread the frenzied anti-Russian (not anti-Russian, but precisely anti-Russian) propaganda in the media, in kindergartens, in schools. It was he, Mr. N and D, who further intensified the split of Ukraine into West and East.
    There is no such creature of forgiveness. I would kill the bastard. And from a to h to his amer. And the hand would not flinch.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 23 March 2013 17: 00 New
      10
      I recall the words from the wonderful Soviet film "17 Moments of Spring". Müller says to Stirlitz: "... the war is lost, Hitler will soon go into oblivion, but know where instead of hello they say" HAYL, that means ... We are needed there, they are waiting for us! "" Probably Müller in 1945 I didn’t even think that it would be Ukraine, only with a small change, the neo-Nazis here instead of hello say “glory to Ukraine”, which in principle does not change the content of this greeting and is quite comparable to Heil.
      1. cooper
        cooper 23 March 2013 17: 06 New
        -7
        do not confuse neo-Nazis and nationalists, far from the same thing
        1. AleksUkr
          AleksUkr 23 March 2013 17: 46 New
          +6
          FOR ESPECIALLY UNCONSCIOUS Coopr ^

          Nazism is the ideology of nationalism introduced into the state rank. That is fascist nationalism.

          Neo-Nazism is an informal, unofficial trend in the culture of Nazism in our time.

          Nationalism is the tribal ideology of isolating one’s nationality and culture. Nationalism is anti-democratic in nature. If democratic regimes allow the existence of nationalist movements and ideologies, then nationalism rejects democracy, which recognizes the freedom and equality of rights of all citizens of a given state, regardless of their nationality. It leads to ethnic discrimination of all “foreigners”.
          Nationalists scornfully reject universal values ​​and norms.
          “Nationalism plays its historical, political and moral role only at a certain historical stage - when the nation is oppressed precisely on a national basis. And it is precisely on this basis that its representatives are not allowed to develop. When nationalism is used in your home country as a screen for their unseemly deeds or to search for enemies to whom you can easily blame your own sins and failures, then it very quickly degenerates into Nazism, xenophobia, and even into racism, when it comes to color skin. "

          I really like such an anecdote: a small person comes from school and yells: “Mom, Mom, today we were at school scribbling. So I have longer than everyone in the class! Is it because I am Ukrainian? ” - "No, son, because you are a stupid person and you are in the first grade for the eighth year ...".


          1. cooper
            cooper 23 March 2013 18: 29 New
            -4
            nationalism is essentially the foundation of any state. Russia as well, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
            1. AleksUkr
              AleksUkr 24 March 2013 09: 59 New
              +3
              We often underestimate how great it is in a person, to overcome the call of ancestors, the call of the earth, when many actions, decisions and actions are taken at the genetic level.

              Heroes have plagued Russia - this is the main and only reason for what is happening in Russia, what is happening with Russia and why.

              Before, how was it?

              The enemy came to Russia, and leaving everything, the Russian people went to beat the enemy. Nobody imagined anything else; there was nothing to think and talk about.

              Now what?

              Entire armies of Russian generals, politicians, political scientists, economists, ideologists, ministers, directors, and just healthy Russian men put forward doctrines, build concepts, draw up programs, paint slogans, hold meetings, consult, consolidate, are elected .., do a lot more, yes and what else can they do to cover up their fear, their helplessness, their petty-heartedness, their lack of will, their unbelief, their powerlessness before the enemy.
              And that the enemy on Russian soil is only a fool and a coward to explain, to prove the obvious that the destruction of the national government, the collapse of the national economy, the sale for nothing of the national wealth created, stored and multiplied by tens of generations of Russian people, and, finally, how the conclusion, the result of the social and economic policy of the current democratic government — the murder of the Russian people — is not someone’s stupidity or mistake, and there aren’t such fools, alcoholics, bribe takers in the country's government so that they can explain what they have done with their stupidity, drunkenness or bribery - there is a deliberate, evil, forward calculated destruction of the Russian people, the Russian state.
            2. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 14: 36 New
              +5
              Nationalism is acceptable only in a self-isolated country with one single MONONATION.
              But in this case too, it will look defiant in relation to the neighboring countries.
              Remember Nazi Germany ....
              Unfortunately, at that moment, the German people were so suffering from the victorious neighbors in the First World War that in a fit of euphoria, they simply forgot that I live in different countries from Nazi Germany.
              And then more ...
          2. YuDDP
            YuDDP 23 March 2013 19: 02 New
            0
            For the joke a separate plus!
            1. densyaophyng
              densyaophyng 24 March 2013 14: 17 New
              +3


              Hitler china fashion
        2. d.gksueyjd
          d.gksueyjd 23 March 2013 21: 46 New
          +1
          Of course, not the same thing, the first der * mo, but the second ha * but!
      2. Egoza
        23 March 2013 20: 39 New
        16
        According to testing on the history of Ukraine (results immediately in% opposite points)
        Question 40: Outstanding representatives of the Soviet partisan movement during the Great Patriotic War were:
        a) S. Timoshenko, M. Kirponos, N. Vatutin - 16.17
        b) A. Melnik, S. Bandera, R. Shukhevych - 41.10
        c) A. Dovzhenko, O. Teliga, O. Olzhich - 13.73
        d) S. Kovpak, O. Fedorov, O. Saburov - 28.87
        XXXX
        Point b) selected 57114 test participants !!!!!

        Comments are superfluous. So is it any wonder where the “Svobodovites” get their support?
        1. d.gksueyjd
          d.gksueyjd 23 March 2013 21: 49 New
          +2
          Well, if you don’t know S. Kovpak !!!, Grosh, the price of education in Ukraine!
        2. Algor73
          Algor73 23 March 2013 22: 03 New
          +1
          Whether there will still be ... In 15-20 years ...
          1. AleksUkr
            AleksUkr 24 March 2013 10: 20 New
            0
            “It is not enough to feel that I love my Motherland. You need to know why I love her, what is dear to me, what I defend, for which I will give my own life if necessary. Let the school give the pupil excellent knowledge of his native history, instill in him a sense of pride in the past of the Fatherland, the inexhaustibility of his wealth, the great power and beauty of our country. ” So about the patriotism spoke People's Commissar of Education of the RSFSR V.P. Potemkin, speaking to the asset of teachers in Moscow in February 1943
            1. darkman70
              darkman70 24 March 2013 23: 31 New
              0
              Let the school give the student an excellent knowledge of their native history, fosters a sense of pride in the past of the Fatherland

              This is the main thing. And now basically a negative is going on or a sort of neutral position ,,, universal, as if the case is about a foreign country.
        3. andrejwz
          andrejwz 23 March 2013 23: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: Egoza
          So is it any wonder where the “Svobodovites” get their support?

          The paradox is that many children are already scared between answering what they think and what is expected of them.
      3. morpex
        morpex 23 March 2013 22: 52 New
        -3
        Quote: AleksUkr
        I recall the words from the wonderful Soviet film "17 Moments of Spring". Müller says to Stirlitz: "... the war is lost, Hitler will soon go into oblivion, but know where instead of hello they say" HAYL, that means ... We are needed there, they are waiting for us! "" Probably Müller in 1945 I didn’t even think that it would be Ukraine, only with a small change, the neo-Nazis here instead of hello say “glory to Ukraine”, which in principle does not change the content of this greeting and is quite comparable to Heil.

        Alexander Borisovich! You that seriously think so? I will immediately make a reservation that I am from the East of Ukraine, and as I have said before, I often visit almost all regions of the country. Who gave you the right to insult us, ordinary Ukrainians with my statements? Yes, we do not have a family in Ukraine, where someone from relatives would not have died in the Second World War! And with your boorish sayings you spit on everyone's soul! And if you have the “Glory of Russia” in Russia, according to your logic, is it akin to “Heil”? Think what you write ...
        You will read all the dirt that is poured on Ukraine and Ukrainians, especially recently and not knowing the real situation, throw your slice of manure in a heap.
        1. AleksUkr
          AleksUkr 24 March 2013 08: 32 New
          +3
          Quote: morpex
          Who gave you the right to insult us ordinary Ukrainians with your statements?


          FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I AM KIND FROM THE CHERNIGOV REGION. MY PARENTS ARE BURNED IN UKRAINE. THERE ARE MY LIVING RELATIVES THERE LIVE. BTW - FATHER STARTED WAR ON THE 4th DAY OF WAR, i.e. On June 26, part of it entered the battle, then fought in a partisan detachment in Belarus. It had a number of orders and medals. Mother-in-law was seriously wounded near Gomel. THEY BOTH UKRAINIANS. They have always been against the manifestation of "self-determination", unlike some.
          I would advise you not to be a haml, but to evaluate the realities of life. FOR THE FIRST TIME TO LOOK INTO THE MIRROR - WHICH FROM US HAMLO. THERE IS EVERYTHING SEEN!
          1. morpex
            morpex 24 March 2013 11: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: AleksUkr
            FATHER STARTED WAR ON THE 4 DAY OF WAR, i.e. On June 26, part of it entered the battle, then fought in a partisan detachment in Belarus. It had a number of orders and medals. Mother-in-law was seriously wounded near Gomel.

            I have always respected and will honor those who died and WWII veterans. Both grandfathers returned from the war. One without legs, the other fought for eight whole years, from 41 to 45 to Germans, from 45 to 48 th with Bandera.
            Quote: AleksUkr
            THEY BOTH UKRAINIANS. They have always been against the manifestation of "self-determination", unlike some.

            Mine is one Ukrainian, another Russian. I was brought up by my grandfather who drove Bandera for three years, so again, put your boorish statements on the word “SOME” in one place.
            Quote: AleksUkr
            I would advise you not to be a haml, but to evaluate the realities of life. FOR THE FIRST TIME TO LOOK INTO THE MIRROR - WHICH FROM US HAMLO. THERE IS EVERYTHING SEEN!

            Before answering you, I would like to know where you live now and where do you get information about the situation in Ukraine?
            1. AleksUkr
              AleksUkr 24 March 2013 13: 12 New
              +3
              Thank you for honoring veterans. My words - "not like some" are not directed directly at you, but primarily at those who spit on the role of all the peoples of the USSR in the victory over fascism. I do not accept the priority of the role of one of the nations, republics to victory in the Second World War. But the USSR played a major role in the world — and this is an axiom.
              Currently, I live far from Ukraine - where the army service has thrown me. But I do not lose ties with my small Motherland. My many relatives live there. And, for your information, my relations with them are excellent and are constantly maintained. Many friends and colleagues live not only in Ukraine, but also in Belarus. So my information is not from the evil one. If you are offended by my words - please excuse me. But life is a cruel thing. And if we begin to switch to nationality, faith, etc., then this will invariably lead to hostility. And there everything is mixed up. And really, no one will already remember why it all started. Stopping is problematic.
              To my great, and not only mine, unfortunately, I do not quite like the activities of the political leadership of Ukraine. Especially "The emphasis on the fact that for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people the Great Patriotic War was supposedly not Patriotic, but was primarily a national liberation struggle for state independence";
              At the same time, it should be noted that, despite propaganda and forcibly imposing an official point of view on the events of the Great Patriotic War, most citizens of Ukraine remain in the position of the traditional understanding of our Great Victory, interpretation of events related to it.
              The majority of Ukrainian citizens in 60% agree with the assertion that the USSR played a decisive role in eliminating the threat of fascist enslavement, and this despite the mass propaganda in Ukraine of a different interpretation of the historical role of the USSR. And only 17% of Ukrainian citizens believe that the victory of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War meant for the peoples of Eastern Europe a change of one occupation to another. It should be noted that in the West of Ukraine, slightly more citizens believe that the victory of the Soviet Union became a new occupation; thus, these citizens express their attitude to their stay in Poland and their subsequent accession to the Ukrainian SSR.

              "Thus, despite the attempts of the official authorities of Ukraine, engaged historians and the media to instill in the Ukrainian society a nationalist, anti-Soviet, essentially revisionist view of the events of the Great Patriotic War, the majority of the population of Ukraine retains the traditional perception of this period as a heroic era of the struggle for the Fatherland and condemns these attempts revisions. "

              GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR: SOCIOLOGICAL ASPECT
              Denis Denisov
              1. morpex
                morpex 24 March 2013 14: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: AleksUkr
                If you are offended by my words - please excuse me.

                And you please don’t be angry with me .. Thank you for understanding me. It’s just that there has been so much negativity in Ukraine lately. And on this site as well. Everything is served with such a sauce! And if something positive comes about my country then most of the users immediately start taunting, ironizing, mocking ... Where does this come from? I’m not just thinking, but almost sure that the Russian government has set the goal of making the enemy of Ukraine. And by the way, they pour it into the same mill, which nationalists - to split the country. As if in one harness dut.Tsel one, only different ways.


                Quote: AleksUkr
                "Thus, despite the attempts of the official authorities of Ukraine, engaged historians and the media to instill in the Ukrainian society a nationalist, anti-Soviet, essentially revisionist view of the events of the Great Patriotic War, the majority of the population of Ukraine retains the traditional perception of this period as a heroic era of the struggle for the Fatherland and condemns these attempts revisions. "

                And I think, no. I’m sure that they will never succeed.
                R. And sorry for my harsh and offensive tone ...
              2. Gari
                Gari 24 March 2013 19: 13 New
                0
                Quote: AleksUkr
                Thank you for honoring veterans. My words - "not like some" are not directed directly at you, but primarily at those who spit on the role of all the peoples of the USSR in the victory over fascism. I do not accept the priority of the role of one of the nations, republics to victory in the Second World War. But the USSR played a major role in the world — and this is an axiom.

                All republics and nations of the USSR were right in the piggy bank for victory over a common enemy, 100% my grandfather, an Armenian from Georgia, a marines came to Berlin, another from Stalingrad was pulled out on a stretcher barely survived
                Another thing is that now they rewrite history in some republics, it’s good that we don’t,
                in Armenia they remember that Great War, more than 600 thousand took place, more than 300 thousand died, 107 Armenians were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union.
      4. fzr1000
        fzr1000 24 March 2013 13: 59 New
        +1
        You probably mixed up with Bandera "Glory to the heroes!"?
        1. Mikola
          Mikola 24 March 2013 19: 40 New
          -5
          It is ridiculous to read yours and other comments on the subject of Glory to Ukraine and Glory to the heroes, as differentsmile In Ukraine (western and central, well, where there was the influence of the UPA), this is one greeting. Greetings - Glory to Ukraine. The answer is to Heroes Glory. And this is not compared with Heil Hitler, because they glorify the country and its heroes, not the person smile It’s even funnier to read that the UPA is traitors. UPA with parts of the NKVD led the beard up to 60 years (another 15 years after the end of the war). What do you think was possible without the support of the population? About UPA, people composed dozens of PEOPLE'S songs. And this is in those times when there was a "democracy of the CPSU" smile And yet - the UPA and the soldiers of the SS Galichinn are different concepts and this is already reflected in the works of Russian historians. All the same, Ukraine is not Russia, in order to evaluate the history of Ukraine it is first necessary to know it not from the sources of the publishing house Moscow, the Kremlin.
      5. DimychDV
        DimychDV 25 March 2013 05: 12 New
        -1
        And what is it like to see Russian fascists? Hear "Russia for Russians"? I was on a bus tour in Moscow - Samara football fans sat down, from 17 to 25 years old, and with them in a leather jacket a quick-eyed uncle for 45 years. They bellowed at the voice of any non-Russian - Georgian, German, Ostseey, French, Italian name in the text of the tour . And our Bashkirs and Tatars (the bus was driving from the Kazan station) sat and were silent. Damn, where were the great-grandfathers of these Samaritans when my great-grandfather went at the call of the king to explore the Far East? When these fools deal with the Jews-because for us, s, they will. And I live in the long-forgotten Kiev region until death, because I, the primorese in the 4th generation, have already forgotten the language.
        If these fools fulfill their slogan, they will remain living within the Golden Ring, and there they will begin to deal with the Chukhon lasts.
    2. Firstvanguard
      Firstvanguard 23 March 2013 20: 04 New
      +3
      My hand would not flinch not only yusch to fill up. I would start with a hunchback, a spotty geek is still alive. This he began, the Gaidars, Chubais and other EBNutye continued and deepened. And only after them appeared Sahak, Yushchenko and other Timoshenko.
      1. Cheloveck
        Cheloveck 23 March 2013 20: 54 New
        +2
        But Berezovsky died ....
        So that he would learn from the next world!
    3. zao74
      zao74 23 March 2013 20: 40 New
      +2
      I do not agree! Labeled Judas is to blame! Because of it, the USSR collapsed and all sorts of pimples and others like them crawled out into the world.
      1. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 23 March 2013 21: 51 New
        0
        You are not quite right, the list is very long. It's time to launch the “maxims”!
  4. cooper
    cooper 23 March 2013 16: 12 New
    -4
    Quote: sichevik
    The blame for this acne is pimpled - Yushchenko. It was with him that all scum came up, it was with him that history textbooks began to be rewritten. It was with him that they began to honor and elevate the rank of heroes of SS men. It was he who began to appropriate the titles of heroes to Hitler mongrel. It was he, with a to, who spread the frenzied anti-Russian (not anti-Russian, but precisely anti-Russian) propaganda in the media, in kindergartens, in schools. It was he, Mr. N and D, who further intensified the split of Ukraine into West and East.
    There is no such creature of forgiveness. I would kill the bastard. And from a to h to his amer. And the hand would not flinch.
    In fairness, the regionals led by Yanukovych began to divide west and east. Yushchenko was generally an statistician. If it weren’t for Tymoshenko, we would not have remembered him.
    1. Egoza
      23 March 2013 20: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Cooper
      just the regionals began to divide the west and east

      Yeah! Only for some reason Tymoshenko suggested on the Maidan "to fence the Donbass with barbed wire"!
  5. revnagan
    revnagan 23 March 2013 16: 14 New
    12
    But Bandera is still traitors. The rope cries for them.
    1. gribnik777
      gribnik777 23 March 2013 16: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: revnagan
      But Bandera is still traitors. The rope cries for them.


      Not everyone thinks so. Oh, not all.

      In Lviv, SS veterans will receive a surcharge of 1000 hryvnias from the Ukrainian budget


      At a session of the Lviv City Council on the initiative of the deputy from VO “Freedom” Markiyan Lopachak, a decision was made to increase the monthly payment for UPA soldiers to UAH 1 thousand, writes varjag-2007 in the Live Journal. This was reported in the press service of the Lviv city organization VO "Liberty". “Expressing respect for the heroic rank of the soldiers of the Army of the Unconquered, Liberty initiated an increase in the amount of the monthly payment for Ukrainian rebels to UAH 1. At our insistence, these funds will not be paid from the end of the year, as Andrei Sadovy wanted, but from April, ”M. Lopachak noted.

      In addition, at the proposal of the free man Yury Naumk, the 14.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS “Galizien” (galizische Nr.1) soldiers were added to the category of people who will be provided with a monthly payment from the Ukrainian budget.
      1. Egoza
        23 March 2013 20: 43 New
        +2
        Well yes! And at the same time they ask the center for money to eliminate the consequences of the elements - drifts! They have no money for roads and bridges, but for Bandera! I’m silent about WWII veterans!
        1. Good man
          Good man 24 March 2013 00: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Egoza
          Well yes! And at the same time they ask the center for money to eliminate the consequences of the elements - drifts! They have no money for roads and bridges, but for Bandera! I’m silent about WWII veterans!

          How many I read your comments, how many times I am amazed at your depth of thought ...
          All regions transfer money to Kiev and already here they decide to whom how much to return back and the Ministry of Emergencies in Ukraine is common and the elimination of natural disasters is common.
          In Odessa, for example, balconies and houses are collapsing and the city authorities allocate millions (!) Of hryvnias per year to the armed guards of the monument to Catherine, although it is quite possible to do with a couple of cameras.
      2. Kaa
        Kaa 23 March 2013 21: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: gribnik777
        In Lviv, SS veterans will receive a surcharge of 1000 hryvnias from the Ukrainian budget

        Quote: Egoza
        And at the same time they ask the center for money

        "In Lviv, they complain that there is not enough money to pay salaries, since this money is allocated from the city budget to pay UPA veterans and the construction of monuments to Stepan Bandera." People’s deputy, "regional" Oleg Tsarev, said on air on Channel 5. majoritarian in the Dnipropetrovsk region, and we have no such problems in the Dnipropetrovsk region. Field leaders should be personally responsible for paying salaries to both public sector employees and utility workers, "he said.
        According to him, knowing every year the city’s budget, the authorities should reasonably dispose of it. "Every year, each level of local government, each city, each region must know what budget they will receive. If this is a subsidized region, he must understand that next year he will receive less money. We do it differently," the politician said. .
        In addition, he believes that there are problems with paying salaries in Lviv, as Bandera’s monuments are being built in this city: “If we take Lviv residents who build with money that are transferred from the state budget to Bandera’s monuments, or pay pensions and help to UPA veterans After all, they don’t do this in the Dnepropetrovsk region. And then they say that there is not enough money. "
        1. opkozak
          opkozak 23 March 2013 21: 54 New
          +3
          And at the same time, both Kolesnikov and Tsarev promoted the construction of a stadium for 30000 people in Lviv, costing about 500000000 Є (500 million, at a cost of 150) for the budget, which is not needed there at all. Because the old Ukraine stadiums for 38000 stand idle people, SKA by 18000, Youth by 5000, but we will not talk about small ones at all.

          Simple money laundering.
      3. Mikola
        Mikola 24 March 2013 19: 51 New
        -2
        Veterans of the UPA and SS veterans of Galicia are different concepts, the latter did not receive it (in Ukraine there is no legal status for a SS veteran) !!! Since when blogs are indisputable facts smile And another question is why they throw such info on your fragile minds? smile In addition, according to this decision, the widows of political prisoners (those who peacefully fought for the independence of Ukraine) receive additional payments according to this decision. And here are the data for the regions from the department of socialist:

        City

        Mistsevі viplati

        Pіdstava viplati

        Schomіsіnny viplati
        rozmir
        Transferred koshtіv
        for 2013

        m. Lviv

        інваліди війни УПА - 16;
        participants of military engagements UPA – 396;
        widows of veterans UPA-66;
        widow polіtv'yaznіv-47


        1. schomіsyasna supplement to pension UPA veterans


        2. loans for payment of utility bills to veterans of the UPA



        3. Payments for payment of utility bills to widows of the UPA veterans



        4. Payments for the payment of utility and communal services to widows of women and men



        5. Pilgi z zvyazku to veterans of the UPA, widows of veterans of the UPA, widows of politicians

        vikonkomu decision
        View 29.12.2008/1444/XNUMX No. XNUMX


        vikonkomu decision
        View 01.03.2002R No. 80 (із змі remarks)


        vikonkomu decision
        View 01.03.2002R No. 80 (із змі remarks)


        vikonkomu decision
        View 01.03.2002R No. 80 (із змі remarks)


        vikonkomu decision
        View 28.12.2007/1272/XNUMX No. XNUMX
        500 UAH.



        100% - LCD
        per person per 21 sq.m


        50%
        per person per 21 sq.m


        50%
        per person per 21 sq.m



        50%
        2 520,4 thousand UAH



        50,0 yew UAH




        71,1 yew UAH



        34,8 ths.




        50,0 ths.
        m.Ternopil

        veterans of the UPA - 86


        1. schomіsyasna supplement to pension UPA veterans


        2. Payments for payment of utility and communal services to the UPA

        decision for the sake of Moscow’s sake,
        100 UAH.



        50-100%
        175,0 yew UAH
        (Moscow budget)




        metro Ivano-Frankivsk

        veterans of the UPA - 44 (m_sto)

        veterans of the UPA - 1100 (m_sto)


        1. schomіsyasna supplement to pension UPA veterans



        2. Payments for payment of utility and communal services to the UPA


        Rishennya Ivano-Frankivsk city for the sake of

        500 UAH each



        100%


        UAH
        (regional budget)
        m.Lutsk
        Z 2010 roku - free of charge koristuvannya minibus taxis

        Нshih surcharges that paymile nemaє
        decision of the Lutsk city for the sake of
        m.Rivne

        Zodnyi dodatkovskih social guarantees not transferred
        m.Chernivtsi
        (Chernivtsi region)
        W 2008 Rock -

        1. schomіsyatі extra payments to pension UPA
        Rіshennya Chernіvetsky regional sake
        10% of the living wage

        89,40 UAH.
        m. Kyiv
        Zodnyi dodatkovskih social guarantees not transferred

        ORIGINAL))))))))))))))
    2. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 23 March 2013 21: 54 New
      +2
      Crying, almost all have died, it’s a pity that his death! Very kind was I.V. Stalin, left these subhuman alive!
    3. The
      The cat 24 March 2013 00: 51 New
      -4
      Quote: revnagan
      But Bandera is still traitors. The rope cries for them.

      Here is the oath of the UPA fighter (though not all of them were Bandera), whom did he betray?
      " I am in the Ukrainian Ukrainian Rebel Army, picking up a good eye, I swear purposely my honor and conscience to the great people of Ukraine, to the Holy Land of Ukraine, to the shed blood of all of Ukraine, and to the whole of Ukraine Ukrainian lands and Ukrainian people vid zarbniknik, and that hello to the Cathedral of the Independent State.

      I don’t have to deal with any kind of blood;

      I swear! "
      1. Egoza
        24 March 2013 01: 07 New
        +6
        Quote: Elgato
        fighting for obezvolennya usіkh Ukrainian lands and Ukrainian people vid zarbnikіv,

        And didn’t it hinder to shoot, rob and burn villages in their own Ukrainians? And then after the war, to sit in caches, when the whole nation was rebuilding the country, the women plowed on themselves, and in the same Galicia they built hospitals, schools, factories, these healthy boogie fighters got out just to rob-kill, because, as he admitted in court, one such fighter "wanted to eat, and therefore robbed." their own Ukrainians were robbed and killed! And to work for the Ukrainian people? Not?
        1. The
          The cat 24 March 2013 03: 38 New
          -4
          Fidget, it’s probably very convenient for you to live in a fictional black-and-white (or red-brown?) World. And life is from shades. I do not idealize the UPA, it consisted of people, not angels, but it is not necessary to demonize it either. The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.
          1. Simon
            Simon 24 March 2013 04: 42 New
            +6
            This is when the upovskie killers became people?
          2. BYRY
            BYRY 24 March 2013 15: 16 New
            +1
            Demonize - are you probably talking about “Christmas trees?” Garlands of dead children bolted with barbed wire to poles? Yes, true patriots.
            1. The
              The cat 24 March 2013 18: 54 New
              -1
              Quote: BYRY
              Demonize - are you probably talking about “Christmas trees?” Garlands of dead children bolted with barbed wire to poles? Yes, true patriots.

              This is especially for you. Before posting some sort of propaganda vyser, it would not hurt to get acquainted with the material.
              http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianna_Doli%C5%84ska
      2. AleksUkr
        AleksUkr 24 March 2013 08: 46 New
        +5
        The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) was created by Bandera in March 1943. It also included the Ukrainian police, previously created by the OUN, “Shutsmanshaft”.

        The Germans always knew the UPA campsite, but did not take measures to destroy it. They created the appearance of a fight against the UPA, but actually fought against the civilian population. At the same time, the UPA waged an active struggle against partisan detachments.
        Only during May - June 1943, several thousand Poles died at the hands of Bandera in the Rivne region.
        In addition, Bandera was engaged in the destruction of Soviet prisoners of war and the Soviet asset. Thus, they sought to liquidate the reserve of Soviet partisan detachments. And Bandera literally hunted for the Jews, who had to hide from the Germans.
        With the liberation of the western regions of Ukraine by the Red Army, part of Bandera left with the Germans, and part was left on Soviet territory for subversive work.

        SO AGAINST WHOM UPA Fought? BACK UP !!!
  6. Prokop
    Prokop 23 March 2013 16: 19 New
    +5
    After reading the story, presented by Svidomo historians, you understand that Ukrainian mythophobes are ahead of the rest!
    1. cooper
      cooper 23 March 2013 16: 31 New
      -8
      Do not exaggerate, Of course there are a small number of inadequate. But they do not enjoy the support of the state or among the "Svidomo", There are plenty of such in any country. Ukraine is no exception.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 24 March 2013 10: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: Cooper
        Do not exaggerate, Of course there are a small number of inadequate. But they do not enjoy the support of the state or among the "Svidomo", There are plenty of such in any country. Ukraine is no exception.

        "Svidomy", inadequate in nature.
        1. cooper
          cooper 24 March 2013 12: 20 New
          -2
          "Svidomo" -can find an analogue in the Russian language, conscious, paraphrasing a patriot. Isn’t that a patriot of his homeland is bad, or can you only be a Russian patriot ???
  7. Kars
    Kars 23 March 2013 16: 34 New
    +5
    History of Ukraine 11 class: Ukraine during the Second World War. The Great Patriotic War


    Ukraine in international politics on the eve of World War II. Soviet-German treaties 1939. The beginning of the Second World War. The entry of the Red Army into the territory of Western Ukraine. The entry of Bessarabia and northern Bukovina to the USSR and Ukrainian SSR. Sovietization of new territories. The situation in Ukraine in 1939-in the first half of 1941

    The beginning of World War II. The retreat of the Red Army. Mobilization measures and evacuation. Military events 1941-1942 years. Occupation of Ukraine. Collaborationism.
    Nazi "new order". The life of the population of Ukraine under occupation. Concentration camps and mass extermination of people. The Holocaust. Ostarbeiters. Life in evacuation.

    The movement of the Resistance and its course. Deployment of the Soviet partisan movement. OUN and UPA. The beginning of the liberation of Ukraine. Fights on the Left Bank. The liberation of Kiev. Liberation of the Right-Bank and Southern Ukraine. Forced eviction from the Crimea to the eastern regions of the USSR Tatars, Greeks, Armenians.

    Completion of the expulsion of invaders from Ukraine. The situation in the western regions. The end of World War II. The heroism of the Ukrainian people. The price of victory. Culture during the war. Our land in 1939-1945

    War is given in the 11th grade, when television already had a lot more influence on thinking.

    can someone throw a link where a fresh textbook can be read on-line. And then I look at the main occupation of many visitors to read Ukrainian textbooks, but somehow I broke away from the trend. (Google not to offer)
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 23 March 2013 17: 03 New
      +3
      All the same, Google.
      First, find history books recommended by your Ministry of Education. Because not all published "textbooks" are actually such.
      Then google again, search by title and authors.
      And only so.

      Quote: Kars
      And then I look at the main occupation of many visitors to read Ukrainian textbooks

      There was a time, squeals began about the Russian history textbook. "Stalin is an effective manager" and so on. Even on the BBC there was an article.
      Became interesting. Not too lazy, went to the neighbors. He took the textbooks of a normal school and a humanitarian gymnasium. Nothing even more or less similar.
      And in the media, the tantrum was terrible.
    2. Felix200970
      Felix200970 23 March 2013 23: 04 New
      +2
      http://school.xvatit.com/index.php?title=%D0%92%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B2%D1%96%D1
      %82%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D1%8F_11_%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0
      % D1% 81
      everything seems to be adequately written. Another thing is that the teacher will impose his personal opinion
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 14: 41 New
        +4
        It has always been like this:
        the personality of the teacher plays a decisive role in the material presented
        no matter what is written in the textbook.
        And for this there are exams.
        Graduation and introductory.
        But this is already a theory ...
  8. chehywed
    chehywed 23 March 2013 16: 41 New
    12
    In the fall, he worked with a Pole, 60-years old. He told how good life was with the Germans. How they handed out pigs and bicycles. To my question: - "And who killed the 6000000 Poles?" again grinning about bicycles ... He was very angry with us for Katyn. All my arguments that the Germans did this rested again on pigs and bicycles. When I asked him for the Red Army prisoners captured in 1920 I received a masterpiece answer. THEY DIED !!! Even old farts are brainwashed, and what can we say about young people.
    1. cooper
      cooper 23 March 2013 16: 45 New
      -2
      a youngish Pole 60 and he remembers the war, Yes, and from my own experience I know that it’s not very Poles who favor the Germans, it’s painfully harsh.
      1. chehywed
        chehywed 23 March 2013 17: 15 New
        0
        youngish Pole 60 and remembers the war

        No, apparently the Internet has broken into old age.
        1. smile
          smile 23 March 2013 20: 49 New
          +6
          chehywed
          Unfortunately, you are wrong ...
          I have three granny sisters and a crowd of other relatives living in Poland. Before the war, they lived in Vilna. With rare exceptions, all Poles sacredly believe that we are to blame. And the strip from Mozha to Mozha is not a slogan, but their original lands .. in general, they all offended them and they all should, even allies and masters .. well, they have such a complex ....
          1. andrejwz
            andrejwz 23 March 2013 23: 14 New
            +3
            Quote: smile
            but in general they were all offended and all owed to them, even allies and masters .. well, they have such a complex ...

            so the Poles are our Slavic Jews.
            1. smile
              smile 24 March 2013 00: 28 New
              +2
              andrejwz

              I do not agree. Although there really were many Jews, the Poles treated them with contempt.
              This did not prevent as early as the 17th century half of the tenants of farmland in Poland - about 4000, to be Jews.
              At that time, the land was traditionally rented for a fixed amount, and everything that went beyond - went to the tenant. The contract usually indicated that the tenant had the right to even take the lives of peasants, forcing them to work. Usually, tenants had a detachment of hidus. Tenants who were not interested in the survival of the peasants fought three skins, regardless of the nationality of both the peasants themselves and the tenants - that the Jews, the Poles, the pro-Orthodox (there are very few of them) were all the same - this largely caused the hatred of the Orthodox part of the population to the Jews, and to all indiscriminately ... and during the uprisings I would not envy them ....
              And under the Germans, the Poles, according to the stories of my relatives and not only themselves, happily engaged in their capture or destruction on the spot, and in the most savage ways ..... if you express your phrase to the Pole - get furious to the extreme ....;))) )
          2. chehywed
            chehywed 23 March 2013 23: 29 New
            +4
            chehywed
            Unfortunately, you are wrong ...

            smile, this grandfather has such a mess in his head, you should listen to him. Something like this: Germans, Jews and Russians are to blame for all the troubles of Poland. But Russians are the most. But in general, he treats Russians well ... and then again about Katyn, bicycles, Catherine, etc.
            1. smile
              smile 24 March 2013 00: 18 New
              +4
              chehywed
              Ha - this is a common thing for them - minimal knowledge, but the reinforced concrete belief that everyone is to blame.
              I was in Wroclaw, and was dragged over the weekly places of this beautiful city to the cheerful and clever Katarzyna (a friend of the daughter of some holy aunt - :))))). So in the final there were barbecue with a smart and educated audience ..... When they got me with thoughtful hints, I ridiculed them in my caustic manner, briefly but reasonably (well, I have a bad character - I’m not going to change and be silent in a rag: ))))) I opened my mouth after hearing that we shot their elite at Katyn, because the executioners live there ... Well, I began by saying that the vice executioners lived in Katowice and Katazinka in general, whether the executioner was a woman, or the executioner was a woman ... and then in 5 minutes I butchered them like a tortoise god ... (I highly recommend Shvets “Katyn. A Modern History of the Question”, Mukhin “Anti-Russian Meanness” in Katyn )
              God, what started here ... they had nothing to answer on the case - they just know nothing but cliches ... but - I became - dog Krev, Russian nationalist, communist, Stalinist, cholera clear, traitor to the Polish people, fascist , Bandera, my womb, kurva, executioner of the Chechen people (Katarzhinka blabbed out), KGB officer ... well, there’s a lot - I don’t remember everything :))))
              The opinion of the democratic community was divided - one part suggested hitting my insolent head off, the second - the more dangerous part - handing me over to the police (what I said they were pulling for an article) and I didn’t like it at all ... yet, damn it, I Polish cameras did not vandalize :)))) ...
              And then a small, hooligan, cheerful like a goat and seemingly frivolous Katarzyna cleaned up with an iron hand - with the use of violence .... nothing - then Starky drank and bawled songs together ..... Although she, of course, later told me that, judging by in my unrestrained behavior, I really do not really have a head :)))) By the way, she absolutely agrees with me on the essence of the dispute, her grandfather is a convinced communist.
              So, I was surprised by their absolute ignorance in history, including the shooting in the Goat Mountains with reinforced concrete confidence that they were right ... that’s such a funny story from life ....
              1. chehywed
                chehywed 24 March 2013 01: 01 New
                +1
                smileand I thought this grandfather is unique laughing .Before him, working with the Poles never had any showdowns. On the contrary, some with nostalgia recalled the Soviet past. And with this one and a half months, every day, even sending in the ass didn’t work. Although the rest is normal, my grandfather.
                1. smile
                  smile 24 March 2013 03: 14 New
                  +1
                  chehywed
                  the fact of the matter is, you, as a normal Russian, Soviet man, admit that their chatter makes sense ... and you’re doing it right, an intelligent person must do this .... but as for the fact that the Poles are silent, don’t it’s worse than us, they know when and what to say .. moreover, there are quite normal people besides my beloved Katarzhinki .... guys, don’t swear, I will reproduce 3 of my comments a week ago ..... The author is a talented Pole, Jerzy Urban. I give without changes ...
                  1. smile
                    smile 24 March 2013 03: 17 New
                    +4
                    About Katyn = in the case of poo, we won the trial in the European court in the year 12. By the way, read Mukhin-anti-Russian / meanness, Shvets = Katyn. The modern history of the issue
                    these people have done a lot for the outcome of the case ... but the main thing is political will ..... decision Pu ...
                    sorry, but about the Poles I want to give the opinion of the Pole ... the topic is close to me, I myself am a quarter of the Pole ...
                    Contrary to
                    Jerzy Urban, “Nie” 30.04/2007/XNUMX

                    From pipeline to pipeline

                    Only the blood of the Poles nourishes Polish patriotism. Sucking our own blood, we are a nation of self-sufficient vampires.

                    Poland has no complaints about Christmas Island, Gabon, Sri Lanka. Dominican Republic, Malta and Monaco. The rest of the countries attacked, occupied, participated in the partition, or at least neglected it and left it alone. For these historical grievances, the twins ruling the Commonwealth should receive a fee. And the governments of all countries are obliged to obey the demand of Poland so that its interests are placed above their own. We call it Polish historical politics. So, Frau Merkel, - “Bismarck with gasket, - you need to think!
                    Polish historical politics springs from the tragedy of Polish history. When the Polish people climbed off a tree, they caught a branch with their wool and fell under a car. Most likely, he fell on his head. This was the beginning of the many failures that make up our past. Our historical misfortunes include Russia, Germany, France, Sweden, Lithuania, tycoons, floods, floods and spills, liberum veto

                    (my comment is the right to impose a sole ban on the decision of the legislative assembly. Because of this absolutely idiotic right granted to any seedy nobleman who participated in the activity of the Seimas of the 16-18th centuries, he was also a kagal in which there was more mess than in our State Duma of the nineties and Beginning of the 20th century - their Sejm, which was gathering in a year and a half, was not able to make a single decision in about 90% of cases)

                    communism, Hitlerism, Napoleon, the September defeat and the defeat at the Macchevites, masons, crusaders, Cossacks, occupations, sections, elected kings

                    (my comment. When choosing kings, the Sejm almost always OFFICIALLY voiced the rates for approving the creations of any state, basically they offered to pay them France and Russia, I repeat, they organized the auction not behind the scenes, but quite publicly, they even now do not deny it. .. although they are shy about this topic ... well, they just can’t)

                    special services, Turks and Ukrainians, UPA, KGB, NKVD, ZNP and GG /, Stalinism, post-communism, martial law, Miller, the last line, Targovitsa and a shopping center in Katowice.
                    Resentment and suffering of the ancestors gives Poland an eternal moral advantage over other ordinary countries. Here Russia wants to lay a pipeline against Poland near the Baltic, we will firmly say to it - Katyn! Katyn! Katyn! And we will repeat until the pipe falls off at the Kremlin. German Frau Chancellor says. What a European constitution is needed. We told her this: Auschwitz! Auschwitz! And again the axis! And that Poland then lost the Second World War along with the Germans, so that the chubby chancellor showed solidarity and helped us import meat to Moscow.
                    1. smile
                      smile 24 March 2013 03: 22 New
                      +1
                      smile March 17, 2013 04:55 | Vladimir Putin for a decade: from defense to exotic 0
                      We have a cold war with Russia. Russia says that Polish meat sent to the East is Argentinean meat. In we insist that the human meat that the Germans brought from the East during the Second World War and were fried in Auschwitz furnaces was the human population of exclusively Polish people. And not Soviet. We will let Russia into Europe only when the corpses of Polish pigs and cows can, like Dmitry the Pretender, freely enter Moscow. Shoving Polish meat into Orthodox throats is our revenge for the suppression of uprisings, for Siberia, for Katyn, Poland, etc.
                      .
                      Soon, the domestic historical policy of the 4th Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth will be strengthened by the law on decommunization, which envisages the destruction of historical monuments of those tragic eras when the Kaczynski were not in power. Newspapers reported that the government list also includes the destruction of the monument to the Polish-Soviet brotherhood in arms - it is proposed to blow it up

                      (my comment. I still don’t understand that the Polish authorities didn’t do this - or an ambiguous assessment of society, infuriated by the fact that in the 20th century the more disastrous economic and political results of the country's leadership than the Kaczynski in Poland were only 30 years, whether it was a plane crash in Smolensk)

                      There is one in Warsaw in Prague.

                      (a suburb of the capital, taken at one time by Suvorov)

                      The people call him the sad monument. The soldiers of the two armies stand with their heads bowed and for many years they have not been raised, so they are ashamed. But even this symbol of repentance in collaborationism must be destroyed. And it will be possible for Poland, our Fatherland, with the help of dynamite to provoke unprovoked indignation in Russia and other post-Soviet countries, from where they came to us and died on those lands. What are now called Polish, 600 thousand soldiers. The peoples of the former USSR do not know at all. That their army did not liberate Poland, but enslaved. Polish historical politics with a roar will enlighten these peoples.
                      Within a few months from August 1944 to the end of April 45 more soldiers of the Polish army fighting alongside the Red Army were killed than in the entire September company of 39 years and in all parts of the Western alliance combined.

                      (my comm.
                      I will not bear it. Considering the number of Poles captured as part of the Wehrmacht and SS troops (over 60), exceeding the number of Italians captured, as well as the fact that since 000, a prisoner of war card was issued only on Hitler’s father who especially distinguished themselves in the battlefield for the cause, and the rest were sent to the Polish Army, two conclusions can be drawn - on the side of Hitler they fought against us more than against the Nazis, and even more than the good Mussolini sent the Italians against us (and this is hundreds of thousands, or they are so worthless warriors that even the proud Romans are an order of magnitude cooler than them .... and this is unlikely - as evidenced by their success on our side ... the truth is, most of us were Soviet Poles, and there were more than a third of Russians there ...)
                      .
                      1. smile
                        smile 24 March 2013 03: 25 New
                        +1
                        smile March 17, 2013 05:03 | Vladimir Putin for a decade: from defense to exotic 3
                        These dead on the Soviet fronts did not know at all that they were leaving for the world for the enslavement of their homeland. But even current graduates of the Institute of National Remembrance

                        (my comm. They have one, according to the degree of brainwashing - the evil commissars of the 30s would be surprised at why people should not be taught to think so much, and would be proud of the Short Course, as a standard for objective coverage of history, and Goebbels would be at first strangled by envy and then, turning blue, he would admit that the students surpassed the teacher and, whispering in a tongue out, sitting on the same frying pan with Hitler, would complain - in vain did you adik say in the summer of 39, that the Poles are miserable, incapable of anything boastful gang.This is also known to England, as well as to us)

                        should answer a few questions. For example, the Polish Army, occupying East Prussia, Pomerania, Silesia, etc. Enslaved these German lands, or already liberated? Because Poland enjoys their conquests with great pleasure. And then, leaving the Soviet Army to the west, did the Germans liberate or enslave? Well. Maybe so: enslaved only to Warta or only to the Oder. And then released?

                        (my comm. By the way, graduates of the aforementioned, with permission to say. 200% of the institution will say that Pomerania, Silesia. All of Prussia is originally Polish land. They firmly believe that the slogan of Pilsudski in 1919 is Polsk from Helsinkors to Tiflis not an attempt to seize someone else’s land, but an attempt to create a Federation on the native Polish lands .... I wonder if the Georgians know that they are guests on Polish soil? :)))))))

                        ... all the men. Tired - finish. . Penultimate paragraph -
                        Domestic historical politics and foreign historical politics are this. By its results, one common policy is turning Poland into a chiri on the right buttock of Europe.

                        Well, what can I add .... however, this brave man did add one paragraph - 6 lines of a rather obscene pun, given in full. Unfortunately, my knowledge of Polish does not allow me not only to translate it in a digestible form, but also to catch the humor, but I don’t want to invent it, therefore I will limit myself to the remark of the Russian translator of the text - this is a hard-to-translate pun, moreover, it is extremely indecent. The meaning is this: under the power of the twins, Poland will not provide anyone with more intimate services (with the exception of the United States), and will look down on everyone (will).

                        So, the knights on the Polish land had not yet transferred - personally, I would with great pleasure shake this brave and honest man's hand.
                      2. chehywed
                        chehywed 24 March 2013 09: 34 New
                        +1
                        By the way, read Mukhin-anti-Russian \ meanness, Shvets = Katyn. A modern history of the issue

                        There is still a dock. film Mukhin "Katyn meanness."
                      3. AleksUkr
                        AleksUkr 24 March 2013 10: 46 New
                        +2
                        Richard Pipes, Yale University Historian:

                        "From a historical perspective, Polish-Russian relations have never been good. Tensions have always arisen between your states, although now everything is working out quite successfully. Russia considers Poland a traitor to the Slavic tradition, because your country adopted Catholicism. In turn, Poles do not like Russians because you have suffered too much from them, so friendship between you, as a matter of fact, is impossible, but the latest disputes will not enter the stage of a more serious conflict.

                        Read more: http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20050420/219003.html#ixzz2ORAQdf87
                        Follow us: @inosmi on Twitter | InoSMI on Facebook
            2. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 14: 51 New
              +4
              If the Poles consider G. Sienkiewicz’s trilogy “Crusaders” and others to be literally a textbook of Polish history, then everything perfectly falls into place.

              Hehe ...
              A Polish taxi driver, a former PNA officer, drove me to a brothel. He said the same words about Katyn: about the elite, those who were innocently killed, about how he came to Leningrad for an internship in glorious Soviet times ....

              In Odessa they say: "Moldavian is not a nationality, but a diagnosis (forgive me brothers and sisters of Moldavians)." So we can continue: "The Pole is not a nationality, but a profession." For the sake of profit, the Pole sends his wife to the brothel to work. I confirm: I saw, talked ... So what can be the understanding of history here ???
          3. AleksUkr
            AleksUkr 24 March 2013 10: 51 New
            +3
            In 1939st century Polish schools, they don’t tell students that the war between Poland and Hitler in XNUMX was our mistake. However, analyzing Polish-Soviet relations, textbooks teach exactly this.

            Read more: http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20050210/217116.html#ixzz2ORBAqQWK
            Follow us: @inosmi on Twitter | InoSMI on Facebook
    2. andrejwz
      andrejwz 23 March 2013 23: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Cooper
      it’s not that Poles and Germans favor, painfully hated.

      it's you, now, about which of them.
  • botur
    botur 23 March 2013 16: 46 New
    26
    For Belarus, the March days of 2013 were marked by a sad date: 70 years ago, Khatyn was no longer on Earth. A quiet, friendly Belarusian village has disappeared from life. Almost all of its inhabitants died at the hands of the Nazis. Ordinary Belarusian peasants lived in Khatyn, cultivated land, cultivated grain, potatoes, hayed, raised children, celebrated weddings and holidays, dreamed of a future that did not come for them. Khatyn is not just a page of the Great Patriotic War, it is a symbol of great tragedy, our pain, our anger.
    Here are our textbooks, as long as there are such monuments nothing can be rewritten.
    1. Egoza
      23 March 2013 20: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: botur
      Here are our textbooks, as long as there are such monuments nothing can be rewritten.

      And thanks to Lukashenko that he supports this, and does not forget to talk about it with young people, and in almost all his speeches.
  • AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 23 March 2013 16: 56 New
    +1
    "The feeling of inferiority in the people arises because the people have no leading power:" The elite is the main thing. But the fact is that she lives her daily affairs, and she does not care much. In the country, everything is decided by the elite - intellectual, intelligent, "political, but really leading, and not just adapting. We have not had a leading elite for a long time, because if it was not destroyed in wars, then we ourselves destroyed it."
    Julia Protsyshena, Ukraine News - From-UA-2000

    Without Ukraine, Russia would have won the Great Patriotic War anyway. This was stated by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in a direct line with the residents of the Russian Federation, answering a question from the leader of the Night Wolves bikers Surgeon, whom he met in the summer in Crimea in a biker camp. The question concerned Russian-Ukrainian relations. Putin transferred it to the historical plane.

    The prime minister did not agree with the opinion of the biker that Russia would not have achieved victory in the Second World War without Ukraine.
    “We would still have won the war. Because we are the side of the winners, ”Putin said and quoted statistics according to which“ the RSFSR suffered the greatest losses in the war — more than 70% of losses. ”

    Historians and politicians condemn the attempt by the Ukrainian authorities to audit the results of World War II.

    “In Russia, over the course of several months, a number of publications were published devoted to the Second World War, the role of the USSR in the Victory over Germany. Films and programs were also shot and shown that allowed to calm the wave of demonization of the USSR. The activity of Ukrainian nationalists must be contrasted with historical facts and more often events that unite the efforts of Ukrainian and Russian historians in the fight against fascism and falsification of history. "- Head of the Historical Memory Foundation, Alexander Dyukov

    22.02.2013/70/XNUMX. President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych will soon approve an action plan to celebrate the XNUMXth anniversary of victory in the Great Patriotic War.

    He stated this during the "Dialogue with the country."

    “Of course, the 70th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War is the date that we must celebrate at a high level. Therefore, in the near future I will sign the relevant documents,” Yanukovych said.
    1. morpex
      morpex 23 March 2013 23: 28 New
      -3
      Quote: AleksUkr
      Without Ukraine, Russia would have won the Great Patriotic War anyway. This was stated by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in a direct line with the residents of the Russian Federation, answering a question from the leader of the Night Wolves bikers Surgeon, whom he met in the summer in Crimea in a biker camp. The question concerned Russian-Ukrainian relations. Putin transferred it to the historical plane.

      Maybe Putin is a good politician for Russia, but for me, a simple Ukrainian, a descendant of many of my consanguineous relatives and fellow countrymen who fought for my homeland and who died for it, he died as a politician after saying such words to bikers in German kaskas (this can only be said in a limited way is an intelligent person) and as a person as a whole. Now I’m no longer surprised at the outspoken hatred of Ukraine in some comments ...
      1. AleksUkr
        AleksUkr 24 March 2013 08: 59 New
        0
        If you follow the logic of you and others like you, then in the end we will succeed as in a sad aphorism - "one who does not remember the lessons of history is doomed to survive them again." Does Ukraine want a repetition of a story that was scary not only for it alone, but actually for the whole world? The answer to this question should be given only by herself.
  • askort154
    askort154 23 March 2013 16: 57 New
    +2
    I lived a lot, I saw a lot, but what is it: - ".... CALLABORATIONISM IS CONSIDERED COMPETITIVELY OR NEUTRAL ..." - at least, until the next stop I will torment myself - that I in this life was "not fully received."
    Perhaps it’s good that Gogol did not live up to this.
  • Lecha57
    Lecha57 23 March 2013 17: 33 New
    +4
    False history needs to be eradicated, not discussed. In all countries, people who are not involved in crimes, but who were in a group, are accomplices. Ukrainian nationalists who commit crimes not only on their territory, but also in neighboring Belarus, together with the German occupiers, are trying not only to justify, but also to elevate them to heroes. Posuti - these are also traitors and they need to be treated in accordance.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 23 March 2013 19: 32 New
      +7
      In the 50s, film magazines were shown before feature films. I well remember how, according to the verdicts of the people's courts with the participation of hundreds of witnesses from local residents, they caught hanged punishers and traitors at the crime scene. Even the tribunals were more lenient than the people themselves.
      It is a pity the people were not allowed to do fair justice to the end and many nonhumans went away from retribution.
      1. Egoza
        23 March 2013 20: 47 New
        +4
        Quote: Corsair5912
        many nonhumans have gone from retribution.

        So some people preferred to stay in Siberia, where they were sent, than to return to their homeland - they were afraid that the villagers would remember them all!
    2. Vladimir_61
      Vladimir_61 23 March 2013 22: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Lecha57
      False history needs to be eradicated, not discussed. In all countries, people who are not involved in crimes, but who were in a group, are accomplices. Ukrainian nationalists who commit crimes not only on their territory, but also in neighboring Belarus, together with the German occupiers, are trying not only to justify, but also to elevate them to heroes. Posuti - these are also traitors and they need to be treated in accordance.

      And not only Bandera will share the fate of their masters - everyone who participated, is involved, being the last, obviously or secretly, on the side of Nazi Germany. Dumbheads will not understand in any way that no one can change the consequences of the deed. "You will not escape fate." Everyone will answer for crimes, since the Law of Retribution no one has ever been able to get around anywhere, and unless otherwise, such a person did not exist. But the effect of the law is not in human measures and sometimes stretches much longer than the average human life.
  • Vladimir_61
    Vladimir_61 23 March 2013 17: 46 New
    +6
    In the war, units were formed, exclusively on a national basis, and fought only in their territories? The whole Soviet Union fought and victory was one for all. Only the wretched are now sharing the Victory, which took shape over a vast stretch of fronts, in confrontation behind enemy lines. One of the next villainies to prevent the rapprochement of the Slavic peoples, their rapprochement with other peoples inhabiting Eurasia, as part of the overall plan of separation and etching. We will be vigilant!
  • Lissyara
    Lissyara 23 March 2013 17: 55 New
    +3
    Nonsense...
    I in the days of the USSR (in 91) graduated from Kiev VIRTU them. Air Marshal Pokryshkina A.I.
    That's how about fashion - so do not care. I have 34 wife of the year, and thongs hang over my pants. The figure allows.
    Just let's not "reverse" the history of the Fatherland.
    The memory of the Great Patriotic War was, is and will be!
  • vpo3000zm
    vpo3000zm 23 March 2013 17: 56 New
    +5
    It all started with the fact that the landing was canceled for perversion (homosexual). And now perverts of all stripes (including history) mock common sense as they want.
  • Uhalus
    Uhalus 23 March 2013 18: 31 New
    +4
    Rewriting history, especially of such an extremely important event as the Great Patriotic War, is the laying of future conflicts and destruction, this is the separation of kindred peoples from each other, the impossibility of further unification. And this new “history” is made up of the same traitors and their descendants and, I believe, by no means in Ukrainian money. There are good journalistic films about this: Bandera: A War without Rules and Orange Children of the Third Reich.
  • anarh
    anarh 23 March 2013 18: 48 New
    13
    My paternal grandfather (Ukrainian) in 1944 with a fellow villager fled from German captivity. In the frontline zone (Slovakia) we went to the owner to ask for bread. He gave the bread. When they left, "informed" the Germans. Caught up five kilometers outside the village. They beat him so hard that they did not shoot. The commander’s words: “They themselves will die. Only drag them farther from each other.” (We were in captivity for a long time, we learned to understand German).
    Scouts rescued.
    Such are the particulars of World War II in persons and nationalities.
    Most striking is the behavior of scouts.
    Being on enemy territory, having a combat mission, having stumbled upon dying compatriots, they were transferred over the front line and handed over to the hospital.
    Apparently, they were not divided by nationality. And they were divided into "friends" and "strangers."
    And "their" are those who are nearby.
    And "strangers" are those who are opposite.
    1. wax
      wax 23 March 2013 23: 16 New
      +3
      There are people like this Slovak: a smile in his eyes, a knife behind his back. The abomination of man.
    2. Egoza
      24 March 2013 01: 11 New
      0
      Quote: anarh
      Apparently, they were not divided by nationality. And they were divided into "friends" and "strangers."

      Svobodovtsi "demand to provide information on the nationality of people's deputies
      People’s deputies-svobodovtsy Leonty Martynyuk and Andriy Mokhnik submitted a deputy’s request to the speaker Volodymyr Rybak with a request to provide biographical information about the nationality of the current deputies of Ukraine, writes Aleksandr Aronets on his facebook page.
      "We believe that the nationality of the people elected is socially important information to be made public, especially since such information regarding the previous convocations of the Verkhovna Rada was provided. In particular, on the BP website there is information about the nationality of the deputies of the 2 convocation. The nationality of Mykola Azarov is Russian" - he wrote.
      http://polemika.com.ua/news-113408.html#title
      xxxxxx
      Well, they will start with people's deputies, and then apparently they will put crosses on houses and apartments. Information is very important - where is "ours" and where not "ours" am .
  • amp
    amp 23 March 2013 19: 13 New
    +4
    Yes, a lot of fascist dishonesty will have to be cleaned out by the Russians in future subjects of the Russian Federation.
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 23 March 2013 19: 40 New
    +4
    I can imagine the vile history of Russia, the USSR, and Russia composed by filthy liberals, mercenaries of the special services of the original enemies of the Russian people.
    Already, history has been turned inside out, the heroes destroying the Nazis, shielding their homeland with their hearts, are turning into criminals, and the scum that smashes the heads of 5-7 year old children in salaspils is turning into heroes.
    Auschwitz, Dachau, Mauthausen and another 20000 German concentration camps are turning into health resorts, or even disappearing from history, in order to destroy the "untimely" from death factories. They mean you look politically incorrect.
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 23 March 2013 19: 54 New
    +2
    Something I remembered the old days of Ilyich No. 2 and the Polish series, which was widely and repeatedly shown on television, namely * 4 tankmen and a dog. especially the refrain (it sounds something like this) When we (Poles) took Berlin, the Russians helped us better. So the correspondence of history and the processing of the mass consciousness of the post-war generation took place long before the collapse of the USSR, it is not clear why this film went to the USSR. that the USSR armed and fielded part of the Polish military, it’s clear that for political reasons the Polish units took Berlin together with us, but so that ..... So. such pies.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 14: 59 New
      +4
      Forgot about Anders army to mention.
      JV Stalin regretted, released to Iran ...
    2. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 24 March 2013 16: 19 New
      +1
      Regarding amazing historical subjects, the Poles surpassed even the Balts. What is even worth asserting that in 1945, the Polish army took Berlin, and the Red only supported its actions.
      Those who want to rewrite history, sooner or later step on their own rake. Still, it seems, Truman said: "You can make a fool of the head for a long time for a few and for a short time - for everyone."
      Like most residents of Eastern Europe, the Poles are very fond of recalling the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, but for some reason they completely forget about the Munich Agreement of 1938, following which Poland occupied part of the territory of Czechoslovakia together with Germany and Hungary.
      And this is amazing. The fact is that only Germany was allowed to occupy part of Czechoslovakia. And the Poles flooded themselves. it turns out Poland is the first aggressor in WWII in Europe.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 19: 31 New
        +5
        Quote: AleksUkr
        The fact is that only Germany was allowed to occupy part of Czechoslovakia. And the Poles flooded themselves. it turns out Poland is the first aggressor in WWII in Europe.

        Not sure...
        The Poles turned out to be quicker - before the Germans in the Tishinsky oliv were.
        But the Germans were not offended - they probably understood that they would have time. Later.
        Although in general I agree ...
        Harness - do not conquer. The signing of the Ribbentrop-Beck Pact in 1935 (an analogue of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact) gave the Poles hope for the capture of Ukraine with access to the Black Sea (from mo ...
  • Black
    Black 23 March 2013 20: 22 New
    +4
    The etching of historical memory, the sowing of Russophobia, is the forefront of the modern war of the West with Russia. And on this front, we must admit, we are losing. Not only that, we are somehow sluggishly resisting the rewriting of history abroad, but we ourselves can’t decide what is good or bad. Here again, we rewrite the history textbook, let's see what happens.
  • Algor73
    Algor73 23 March 2013 21: 27 New
    +4
    This is a very painful topic for all post-Soviet peoples, especially for Ukraine - The whole West was under Poland until 39, Bukovina - Hungary, etc. But they fought in the war all together - both Russians, and Ukrainians, and Uzbeks, etc. Victory was not shared. The victory was one at all. But Putin’s statements that the war would have won without Ukraine, to put it mildly, are not correct in relation to those Ukrainians who fought. Top officials cannot be so rashly voiced. After all, after the Russians, in second place Ukrainians suffered the most serious losses. But history, of course, cannot be rewritten, however, it is also necessary to display the negative sides. History is history and not an ode.
  • pehotav
    pehotav 23 March 2013 21: 27 New
    +1
    Everyone is forgetting or does not want to see that behind the unleashing of the Second World War the United States and Great Britain stand, and not Hitler, who was pushed east and brought to power only in order to push Russia and Germany back in the war, as in 1914. Their present attempts to accuse the USSR of starting a war through the likes of Suvorov are increasingly convincing of this. All these attempts suggest one idea that the Mein Kampf for A. Hitler was written in England and edited in the USA.
  • pehotav
    pehotav 23 March 2013 21: 36 New
    +2
    If you look closely at which countries suffered the most during the First and Second World Wars, you will find those in which anti-Semitism was most developed.
  • ded_73
    ded_73 23 March 2013 21: 42 New
    +1
    For Sichevik and others like them ... bloodthirsty. "I would kill ..." P ... do not toss the bags. Neither Gorbachev nor Yushchenko are particularly guarded. Especially the last one, I’ve not seen it once. Either do it or be silent. And then ...
  • ded_73
    ded_73 23 March 2013 22: 05 New
    0
    Sichevik and other bloodthirsty .... "I would have killed ..." Neither Gorbachev nor Yushchenko is especially guarded. Especially the latter, I saw more than once. So what's the deal? Either do and be silent, or even less so. It seems people are adults, or so .... score points?
  • DPN
    DPN 23 March 2013 22: 21 New
    +2
    So far, current historians and professors will harass the Bolshevik-communist past of the USSR, and Russia is not separable from this. The history of Russia will also be turned inside out, so young people dance and urinate on the monuments of the Second World War,
  • Avisarra
    Avisarra 23 March 2013 22: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Prokop
    After reading the story, presented by Svidomo historians, you understand that Ukrainian mythophobes are ahead of the rest!


    brainwashing and complete debilitation of the younger generation crying
  • Kotleopold
    Kotleopold 23 March 2013 22: 30 New
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    First, find history books recommended by your Ministry of Education.

    So, I was looking for a book, and I found:

    I shortened the list - it doesn’t interfere with comments completely. I’ve lost the link, but I think that finding it is not a problem. So not everything is so bad. bully
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 24 March 2013 11: 24 New
      +1
      Thank. Encouraging.
  • zennon
    zennon 24 March 2013 00: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: d.gksueyjd
    Well, if you don’t know S. Kovpak !!!, Grosh, the price of education in Ukraine!

    Now that it has been proved that it was the Ukrainians from the Galichina and Nakhtigal formations that destroyed, burned, and shot at the inhabitants of many villages in Belarus of the same Khatyn, in the Bryansk Region, how is all this taught in Ukraine? Indeed, it was proved. Moreover, it was well known for a long time, but for obvious reasons was hiding.
    1. Egoza
      24 March 2013 01: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: zennon
      it was the Ukrainians from the Galichina and Nakhtigal formations who destroyed, burned, and shot at the inhabitants of many villages in Belarus of the same Khatyn, in the Bryansk region, how is all this taught in Ukraine?

      And in Yugoslavia, what did they forget? Even the Germans marveled at the brutality of these "fighters" during the hunt for the Yugoslav partisans! They also liberated Ukraine there? am
  • Nikaviz
    Nikaviz 24 March 2013 00: 58 New
    +3
    And about BABY YAR .... is in the textbooks in Ukraine !!!! ???
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 24 March 2013 15: 02 New
      +4
      LORD !!!
      THIS IS THE SAME SCUMMER NEEDED TO BE,
      So that you can still find the angle!
  • воронов
    воронов 24 March 2013 01: 01 New
    +3
    Bandera is not people
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 24 March 2013 12: 06 New
      +1
      It's right. They behaved like mad rats, both during the war and after the war.
      Surely they knew that they had no chance and never would have a victory for the Red Army, but they continued to kill peaceful Soviet people, including women and babies, even when they were driven into stinky caches.
      The OUN members did not commit atrocities for the sake of the independence of some mythical never existing Ukraine, but simply out of genetic or zoological malice and sadism.
      1. cooper
        cooper 24 March 2013 12: 29 New
        -2
        and Vass does not bother that the local population supported Bandera ???
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 24 March 2013 12: 34 New
          0
          Yeah, especially Polish. Well, Belarusian in Polesie.
          1. cooper
            cooper 24 March 2013 13: 00 New
            0
            the fact remains that Stalin wasn’t, and Bandera’s were
        2. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 26 March 2013 09: 22 New
          +1
          I lived in western Ukraine for 5 years in the late 70s, when eyewitnesses of Bandera terror were still alive. From the accounts of eyewitnesses, I know that Bandera kept the local population in fear, with their monstrous inhuman atrocities.
          People were silent and were ready to give the bastards everything, if only they would not be cut out at night with infants and old people.
          People are now intimidated by gangs of zombie scum nationalists, I hope that they are also outweighed, as their filthy predecessors hanged.
  • Pu239
    Pu239 24 March 2013 01: 31 New
    0
    The brothers are trying to separate.
  • Pu239
    Pu239 24 March 2013 01: 34 New
    +1
    The wisdom of the Dakota Indians says: "If you notice that you are riding a dead horse, get off it."
    But in life, we are often guided by other strategies:

    - we get a stronger whip;

    - change the rider;

    - we say to ourselves: “we used to ride a dead horse”;

    - create a working group to study a dead horse;

    - we visit different places to see how they ride on dead horses there;

    - create a department for revitalizing a dead horse;

    - arrange trainings to learn how to ride a dead horse better;

    - we carry out a comparative analysis of all kinds of dead horses;

    - we change the criteria establishing that the horse is dead;

    - we hire people who allegedly know how to ride a dead horse;

    - inspire ourselves that no horse can be so dead that it was impossible to ride on it;

    - we conduct research to find out if there are better or cheaper dead horses;

    - we explain to ourselves that our dead horse is faster, better and cheaper than others;

    - create a quality council to find application for dead horses;

    - we are reviewing working conditions for dead horses;

    - expanding the scope of application of dead horses;

    - and, finally: we form a special department in which the needs of dead horses are studied.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 24 March 2013 01: 55 New
    +1
    Somehow, they did not pay attention to the fact that the basis for the emergence of new views on history is the fact of a change in political views and aspirations.
    Further, everything goes, either on the principle of a cowardly dog ​​- “one barked with fright, the others supported”, or with an eye to rapid advancement. I don’t presume to consider it in other countries, but in Ukraine it is clearly visible, in recent years, the very rich or currently politically “advanced” media representatives, historians, political scientists, judges, lawyers, representatives of law enforcement agencies have come to power. d. That is, those who managed to "bark" very resonantly, or "bite" a political opponent - in the eyes of the new elite! Ordinary rogues, careerists, using the moment for personal, selfish purposes!
  • rodevaan
    rodevaan 24 March 2013 06: 40 New
    +2
    Gentlemen, why are you fussing in the comments?

    As far back as the 19th century, the great Dostoevsky expanded and very accurately wrote about the "Slav brothers" and their true essence. And there is no reason and reason not to believe him, because we are beautifully seeing all this now.

    So far, Russia is only rising from that deep cesspool where the Eltsinoids and Co. have thrown it — all these “brothers forever” are worse than the Westernized enemies!
    Grunted by frantic Russophobia from their own worthlessness and inferiority.

    But wait, as soon as Russia gets out of this Mr., or as soon as the next "democratization-civilizers" begin to trample them in the form of external enemies or any other crises - they will again run back with the cry "Russia - forgive, Russia - help!" . And Russia again, like so many centuries in a row, will begin to pull these "brothers" by reason from their Mr.'s ears.

    P / S / - Gentlemen - good news! The enemy of the people of Berezovsky no longer exists. Now there’s no one to judge!
  • AlNick
    AlNick 24 March 2013 10: 11 New
    0
    In the comments it was already mentioned that 70 years ago - on March 21, 1943, the Belarusian village of Khatyn was burned along with the inhabitants.
    For many years, it was generally accepted that Khatyn was burned by Nazi invaders.
    However, not many people know that the 118th schutzmanshaft battalion, the punitive division of the auxiliary security police from the Ukrainian collaborationist group, actually participated in the destruction of the village. Formed in June 1942 in the Kiev region, mainly from residents of the western regions of Ukraine and prisoners of war of the Red Army who fell into the Kiev cauldron at the beginning of the war.
    http://www.detektiv.by/node/135
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 24 March 2013 10: 17 New
      0
      AlNick
      The Nazi invaders destroyed it, and who they were by nationality does not matter
      1. family
        family tree 24 March 2013 11: 15 New
        +2
        Where was the 118th schutzmanshaft battalion and to whom did it obey? Whose orders did he follow? And, I understand, the lord is not responsible for the actions of slaves? So?
  • zennon
    zennon 24 March 2013 11: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: stranik72
    AlNick
    The Nazi invaders destroyed it, and who they were by nationality does not matter

    Essence! The question is not about the nationality of the executioners, but about how this fact is covered in modern Ukraine. And is it covered at all?
  • AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 24 March 2013 15: 51 New
    0
    Quote: Cheloveck
    But Berezovsky died ....


    Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov: Berezovsky was clearly an opponent of Putin; not just political.
    Press Secretary of President Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov told RAIN that Moscow would consider the appeal of relatives of the disgraced oligarch Boris Berezovsky about his funeral in Russia.

    The leader of the LDPR party, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, expressed regret that the disgraced oligarch Boris Berezovsky did not have time to return to his homeland.
    Zhirinovsky believes that this could be a powerful call for the return to Russia of the remaining oligarchs, who at one time took the capital out of the country.

    In an interview with RAIN, the ex-mayor of Moscow, Yuri Luzhkov, stated that, despite his attitude to Boris Berezovsky, the disgraced oligarch should be buried in Russia.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 24 March 2013 16: 56 New
    -2
    The Second World War is a very controversial event, a lot of lies and falsifications. There are many classified documents that can completely change the idea of ​​war. And I don’t understand why the conclusions of the quack Gumilyov were included in the article, you would have quoted Petrik.