"Guns and soldiers" fought a fair amount, the world does not want a nuclear war - is there a chance for a real and fair end to the Ukrainian conflict

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"Guns and soldiers" fought a fair amount, the world does not want a nuclear war - is there a chance for a real and fair end to the Ukrainian conflict

The issue of what negotiating positions Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump might take to meet each other is being discussed more and more actively. The main prism through which the assumptions are passed is the certainty that the negotiations will take place and that Russia and the US want to end the conflict. That is, these are the kinds of assumptions that are being made. Yes, they are debatable, but they are currently being accepted as a hypothetical basis.

If the US really wants the conflict in Ukraine to end, what are the parameters of this “desire”? There aren’t that many parameters.



First, the and this is voiced by officials of the future Trump administration, "the Russian-Ukrainian conflict has come to such a development that it could lead to a nuclear war involving the United States." Despite the fact that the United States continues to publish materials from the series: "How many people can survive on the East Coast in the event of a nuclear strike," to finish its history The United States, of course, does not want to. Trump has children and grandchildren... Accordingly, the States understand that if, having already transferred to Ukraine practically everything that is possible from the usual types weapons and without achieving "victory over Russia on the battlefield", the next step is only nuclear weapons. Accordingly, this is a global nuclear war, in which the "chances" of dying are several orders of magnitude greater than surviving. Ukraine is not against it, if it is on the same list as everyone else. But the US and other parts of the world would still like to live a little longer.

Secondly, money. Maybe for the US, “first of all” is money. You don’t have to be an economics guru to understand this: Ukraine today is a black hole for the American and European budgets. Any injections either don’t lead to any results for the “givers” or lead to where they would not want to go at all. Of course, the US could continue to rev up the printing press and sponsor Ukraine without limits and without control, but the States need an “exhaust”. At one time, the calculation was for 2023, when the Ukrainian army was preparing for a “counteroffensive” and when the word “armed rebellion” was heard in Russia itself. But in the end, the joyful and anticipatory Western faces transformed into faces dejected by failure, after which the first “black swans” of problems with the allocation of financial resources for Ukraine appeared. Of course, the flows are still going on, but without the same enthusiasm, and Zelensky has to travel several thousand kilometers more to get new packages than he did 1,5 years ago.

But if the first and second points are, rather, a forced situation for the United States, then item number three, when Trump enters into hypothetical negotiations with Putin, may turn out to be the one that will already cause, to put it mildly, mixed feelings in Russia. This point may be connected in one way or another with the aim of dampening the momentum of Russia's systematic offensive operation on all fronts. All this, naturally, under the powdered statements that "everyone wants peace, no one wants war, the West is for everything good and against everything bad." And when the issue comes down to money and the increased likelihood of being buried under a layer of, as a well-known Russian journalist puts it, radioactive ash, for the US this is the option that should be perceived as a priority in the current circumstances.

And this is a real problem. Even if they promise us (Russia) a cartload of bonuses, even if they lift a couple dozen sanctions, even if Trump personally loudly says that he will not accept Ukraine into NATO, where are the guarantees that the West will not take back all its bonuses and promises in about 2 or 4 years – after Donald’s presidential term ends? Considering the historical experience of contacts with the West – there are zero point zero guarantees. Starting all over again in the same four years – well, that’s not so great…

On the other hand, Russia does not need an endless war either. Especially if we continue this "gentleman's agreement" and continue to fight "with guns and soldiers"... This is an obvious fact from the point of view of economics, demography, social issues, as well as from the political point of view.

Accordingly, forgive me for the banal phrase - the negotiations will not be an easy walk. There are too many nuances: the presence of the enemy in the Kursk region and in the four new regions constitutionally enshrined, the intentions of the European NATO members to deploy military bases in Ukraine, tens of thousands of sanctions against Russia, the lack of legitimacy of any of the Ukrainian "authorities". But the main thing is Russia's interests. Kyiv constantly talks about a fair peace. And Moscow is for exactly the same. The peace after the end of the conflict must be fair. And fair objectively, and not as it is understood on Bankova or in Washington offices. Utopia? And utopias come true if responsible decisions are made.

But precisely because if we act today, forgetting about this, and every now and then looking into the mouth of the same Trump, not taking into account our own miscalculations, then tomorrow even what has been happening for almost three years may seem like a piece of cake.
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  1. -7
    17 January 2025 13: 17
    Somehow I don’t see that our leaders who have the right to make decisions are looking into Trump’s mouth. So far I only see an idée fixe from the West.
    1. + 14
      17 January 2025 13: 30
      There is no justice in the world of predators and there never will be.

      Only with their destruction is a just peace possible.
      1. +9
        17 January 2025 13: 50
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        There is no justice in the world of predators and there never will be.

        Only with their destruction is a just peace possible.
        - yes.....
        "I realized that I won't make the world a better and kinder place when I ran out of bullets"©
      2. + 11
        17 January 2025 14: 09
        Let the boots squelch,
        Let the butt crack on the mosink.
        I have no more enemies
        I buried them today behind a clearing ...
        1. -2
          4 February 2025 07: 51
          Quote: paul3390
          Let the boots squelch,
          Let the butt crack on the mosink.
          I have no more enemies
          I buried them today behind a clearing ...

          I liked it, found a sequel, no author

          "SEPTEMBER 1941
          Let the right boot squelch, and let the butt of the Mosin rifle crack
          I have no enemies left, I laid them down yesterday, beyond the clearing
          It took me eight days to get here, and I shot until I had enough bullets.
          I didn't meet people, only enemies, crows were swarming over the corpses
          I walked while I had strength and the bread that I took from my knapsack in the evening,
          Nine days ago, the murdered man, not a human.
          And once - with a bayonet, with bated breath, until bloody foam, until vomiting.
          Because it can’t be any other way, because I’m the only one from the company
          And no one will tell me that it is mean, and no one will say: 'Not brave!'
          Because there is no other way, because I am tired of trembling
          And I went out - judge if you can, just know: I won’t be afraid.
          Because there was no more ammunition, and I was going home, into hand-to-hand combat."
      3. +7
        17 January 2025 14: 21
        There is no justice in the world of predators and there never will be.

        Only with their destruction is a just peace possible.

        There is no world justice at all and there cannot be.
        Simply by definition, because justice is a subjective concept.
        There are even dozens of jokes written about this, like the one about the Jewish boy who was playing the violin while the boys were kicking a ball around in the yard.
      4. -1
        17 January 2025 19: 39
        "Only with their destruction is a just peace possible."
        The only question is who is considered a predator.
        I am sure that many countries in the world, when asked who is the predator in the world, will point a finger at us...
      5. 0
        23 January 2025 07: 25
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        There is no justice in the world of predators and there never will be.

        Man is a predator by nature, no matter what nationality he is. Therefore, justice will prevail only within the framework of the winning side's ideas.
    2. + 22
      17 January 2025 13: 30
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Somehow I don't see that our leaders who have the right to make decisions are looking into Trump's mouth.

      But they never recovered from the disease.
      The same one because of which the media always shows "what's going on with the Americans" (I don't give a damn about them all, along with that continent, what good does it do us?)...
      The country (the whole country) shouldn't care what's there (well, unless it's an excuse to roughly say "give Alaska back for free" laughing ).
      And even more so, one should not care “what the West thinks.”
      The only thing worse than this is the shame when federal media creates a sensation like "A NEW GAYPHONE HAS BEEN RELEASED". wassat
      Thanks to the efforts of those at the top, we have generations that look up to the West.
      1. -5
        17 January 2025 13: 34
        I mainly evaluate the actions of our Ministry of Foreign Affairs based on Western media and I advise you to do the same. laughing Get treatment and don't read any nonsense about the possibility of fixed matches.
        1. + 13
          17 January 2025 14: 23
          Quote: tralflot1832
          I mainly evaluate the actions of our Ministry of Foreign Affairs based on Western media and I advise you to do the same. laughing Get treatment and don't read any nonsense about the possibility of fixed matches.

          I don't read foreign media because I don't know English. But I do watch our media. And what do I see? I see that everything is moving towards the end of the BD. On what basis? On the basis of a deal! And that means the goals of the SVO will not be achieved. Because in order to achieve real denazification it is necessary release Okraina from Nazi ideology. And how can this be done without owning the entire territory of Okraina? And will Donya take this path to solving the Ukrainian problem? I doubt it three times. Because everyone has their own ideas about justice.
          Well, the main goal of the SVO is to create guaranteed security for Russia. No signed agreements on the issue of Russian security are worth a damn until Russian troops are stationed on the territory of the Outskirts and NATO troops leave the territories of Eastern European countries and the Baltics. For me, such a state of affairs would be fair. For a Ukrainian patriot, it is not fair. For him, justice is a return to the borders of 91. Conclusion - justice is for the strong, regardless of how the weak look at it.
          1. +2
            17 January 2025 14: 47
            I don’t know English either, but out of boredom I installed Yandex Translator in our media.
          2. + 12
            17 January 2025 15: 55
            This means that the goals of the SVO will not be achieved.
            Well, at the end of December, the Chief of the General Staff announced that all the goals set for 2024 had been achieved, and similarly, the same can be said about the entire SVO and ignore what we all think about it.
          3. +5
            17 January 2025 15: 56
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            No signed agreements on the issue of Russian security are worth a damn until Russian troops are stationed on the territory of the Outskirts and NATO troops leave the territories of Eastern European countries and the Baltics. For me, this state of affairs would be fair..

            For me as well.
          4. -1
            17 January 2025 19: 50
            The fact that the stated goals of the SVO could not be achieved became clear to everyone after the first month of the war.
            The fact that you watched Channel One all this time and believed that everything was going according to plan is already a question for you.
            Today, there are no other options except stopping military operations along the front line. There are neither the forces nor the means to defeat the enemy on the battlefield.
            So the choice is not great: either a bad peace, or we continue to lose people.

            By the way, like many others, you are waiting for victory while sitting at home on the couch. It doesn't happen that way.
            1. +7
              17 January 2025 20: 14
              Quote: Reporter
              By the way, like many others, you are waiting for victory while sitting at home on the couch. It doesn't happen that way.

              My age and illnesses allow me to stay at home. I paid my debt to the Motherland in 1987 on the banks of the Pripyat.
              1. -7
                17 January 2025 21: 02
                Well, here it goes: age, health... I didn't expect to hear anything else. The couch warriors have one excuse for everyone.
                I advise you to look at the Ukrainian Armed Forces. There are men aged 60 and many in the ranks. And nothing, they fight. They start whining about their age only when they are captured.
                And anyway, why do you think you have bad health? Everyone has it now - the ecology is bad. And we will assign you to sappers - you will walk around the field, looking for mines. When you find them - we will know.
                And we will support you from here on the couch with a powerful patriotic comment!!!!
                1. + 11
                  17 January 2025 22: 26
                  Quote: Reporter
                  Well, it began: age, health...

                  Live to my age, then we'll see how you sing. But before that, go get your fix. By the way, I'm 72
                  1. -12
                    17 January 2025 22: 57
                    Well then we have a problem.
                    You want victory and control over the entire territory of Ukraine. But at the same time you cannot fight (according to your words).
                    And who should go and bring you this victory then?? While you wait at home on the couch?? Any suggestions?

                    Maybe then, in this case, since you yourself are not able to fight, it is still a bad peace?
                    1. +8
                      18 January 2025 06: 51
                      You both, and all the Russian commentators on the site, are worried about the country, about the Motherland.
                      Everyone has different life experiences, some served in the army, some did not. Some know history well, some do not. Those who served in the Soviet Army and Navy, border troops saw and know what an army should be like and how to protect their interests in the world. You can't do without mistakes, and unfortunately, betrayals too, even at the highest level. Who now controls the highest power, like the Politburo of the CPSU in its time? The oligarchs, the State Duma? United Russia? The FSB?
                      For now, all we old people can do is pray for Russia and offer something on this website on the Internet from our experience. soldier
                    2. + 10
                      18 January 2025 07: 08
                      And who then should go and bring you this victory??

                      The one whose turn has come. We all once stood our watch. The man is 72!!!!!!
                      Somehow, it seems, there is nothing to discuss. Everything is obvious. No! Someone will be found who will demand a feat from the old man. There is a conscience, no?
                      1. +8
                        18 January 2025 08: 45
                        Well said. So the government doesn't let you retire from the machine, the tractor, the steering wheel, the construction site until you're 65. And it wants to drive you into the trenches for the last time.
                    3. +6
                      18 January 2025 08: 48
                      Quote: Reporter
                      Well then we have a problem.

                      This is a problem in your brain. When you solve it, then we'll talk.
                  2. -11
                    17 January 2025 23: 02
                    "You'll live to be my age"
                    Well, that's what I'm aiming for!! But the war could get in the way. If I'm called up...
                    So here our interests converge

                    But I don't understand why you're still fighting for war at 72? You're not healthy anymore, do you want to bury the rest?
                    1. +3
                      18 January 2025 08: 55
                      Quote: Reporter
                      If I get called up...

                      Well, just say that you have a weak vein, otherwise -
                      Quote: Reporter
                      Today, there are no other options other than stopping the fighting along the front line.

                      You don't have any options.
                    2. +1
                      19 January 2025 19: 23
                      Well, that's what I'm aiming for!! But the war could get in the way. If I'm called up...

                      I don't blame you, there is little desire to fight for the compradors, but you are probably a victim of the EG if you don't understand that after the armistice the war will definitely resume, but with more terrible consequences and you will be called up, you can't leave the war by saying I'm tired. Maybe you can go to Argentina.
                      But I don’t understand why you, at 72 years old, are still advocating for war?

                      This forum member is a realist, not a victim of EG, and understands that it is impossible to escape from war except by relocation.
                      Recalling that the "ceasefire" as announced in the States means the restoration of calibrated thermal power plants in Ukraine, additional armament, restoration of the number of IEDs, transition to new drone systems, and the drones themselves will be about 4-10 million, all this will fall on the Russian Federation. You will not be able to sit it out, do not hope, the West has sentenced us all. The so-called "ceasefire" is a delay, after which a catastrophe will follow for the Russian Federation.
                2. 0
                  18 January 2025 01: 29
                  "age starts to whine"
                  .....
                  56 contract. ShturmA. RF.
                  Everything is correct..
            2. +4
              18 January 2025 19: 49
              I wonder what you are drawing such conclusions on? On the basis of the noodles of our official media? Answer - for what purposes does any state maintain its army? Why, given the existence of an article in the country's Constitution on the duty to defend the Motherland and an almost million-strong army staffed on the basis of conscription, do only contract soldiers take part in battles? Just don't talk nonsense about 30-40 year olds who signed a contract (and not always those who served in the military) being better prepared than those who were called up and served at least six months. If a serviceman serving is not ready to fight, he is worthless and the taxpayers' money spent on his maintenance is wasted.
              1. +1
                18 January 2025 20: 50
                Quote: bug120560
                If a serviceman serving is not ready to fight, he is worthless and taxpayers' money is wasted

                Mmm, the boy was called up for military service three months ago, and he should already know how to fight? Are you serious? By the way, being ready to fight and being able to fight are two completely different concepts.
                1. -2
                  19 January 2025 09: 30
                  Dear Sir, "turn on your brain". You stubbornly refuse to notice the most important thing, namely, why should a country maintain an army that cannot fight? Will you even call a man with a family "boy" if he is 18? And as for the skill, the training course for servicemen who have signed a contract with the Ministry of Defense is 6 months, while conscripts serve for 12 months.
                  1. +1
                    19 January 2025 10: 42
                    Quote: bug120560
                    Dear sir, "turn on your brain".

                    Let's do it together. And have you met many 18-year-olds with families? Yes, the training course for contract soldiers is 6 months, but they, at one time, completed a compulsory course, some for a year, and some for two. And this is an important factor. And finally, whose life is it more profitable for the state to save, the one who no longer wants to have children, because he already has them, or the one who does not have them yet, but will definitely have them?
                    1. -1
                      20 January 2025 09: 34
                      Let's do it, with great pleasure. First, I want to answer about 18-year-olds with families - I've met and know quite a few of them, among friends and acquaintances, their sons. Now let's get down to the topic specifically. The fact that the level of combat training of a serviceman who has served half of his term of military service is higher than that of a serviceman who has just signed a contract with the Ministry of Defense is not even worth proving, it's an axiom. It would also probably not be superfluous to recall the physical capabilities of the human body. At these very 18, the body's capabilities are probably higher than at 30 or 40. So why do you think that in the event of war all age groups are subject to mobilization, but not now? I am in no way calling for declaring mobilization and sending everyone to fight, but I consider it necessary today to use all the capabilities of the army to achieve a quick victory. Look at what is happening now in the Kursk region - in four days after the invasion, the Armed Forces of Ukraine captured more than 1000 sq. km. our territory (and we are lucky that they did not have enough strength to reach the Kursk NPP), and now they have been digging them out of there for almost half a year. Perhaps this would have happened if in the first hours of the invasion the troops of the Moscow Military District stationed nearby had been raised on combat alert and their forces had launched a counterattack? But the Ministry of Defense began to transfer units already participating in the Central Military District, which had been previously withdrawn to the rear and were on rest (this can be easily determined based on media reports, where the numbers of units are given, and it is enough to remember where these units fought earlier). This is what allowed the Armed Forces of Ukraine to advance so far and prolonged the fighting, and this, no matter how you look at it, means additional losses, both among the military and among civilians. So think about what is better - to hit with a fist once, or to poke with sticks endlessly?
                      1. 0
                        20 January 2025 10: 38
                        Quote: bug120560
                        In the first hours of the invasion, the MVO troops stationed nearby were put on alert and their forces launched a counterattack? But the MO

                        Do you want to say that inexperienced guys would have instantly defeated the enemy in the Kursk region, with whom
                        Quote: bug120560
                        it's been almost half a year
                        experienced, battle-hardened contract soldiers can't cope? The answer is obvious. Even the expired ones have already realized that staffing new brigades and sending them into battle unseasoned is the height of stupidity and a path to the rapid destruction of these brigades.
                        It is much more effective to send recruits to brigades that have already been in battle as reinforcements. In these brigades, they gain experience in conducting combat operations faster, being close to experienced fighters. You see, even the expired ones understood this, but it still doesn’t reach you.
                        And, besides, you did not answer the question - whose life is it more profitable for the state to save, an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old?
                      2. +1
                        20 January 2025 17: 28
                        You are again trying to reason with the criteria of the idiot box, but what if you think for yourself? How many contract soldiers, in your opinion, who have undergone 6 months of training, have combat experience when they get to the front? Now I will answer, your question "whose life is more profitable for the state to save, an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old" - the question itself is already incorrect. For any normal state, saving the lives of its citizens or, if possible, reducing the level of combat losses is what should be "at the forefront". And only the maximum reduction in the duration of combat operations can be a way of such a reduction. You simply do not want to accept a simple and obvious truth. The state of the economy does not allow financing a contract army, the numerically necessary for victory, and winning, using the army to the fullest extent, is a risk of causing unpredictable consequences within society. Now, regarding 18-year-olds - why do you think that in Hungary, in Czechoslovakia, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya they could, but today in Ukraine they cannot? I think that it is clear to everyone, even to you, that if the current government remains in Ukraine “today”, then “tomorrow” everyone will be fighting, including 18-year-olds.
                      3. 0
                        20 January 2025 18: 08
                        Quote: bug120560
                        In your opinion, how many contract soldiers who have undergone 6 months of training have combat experience when they go to the front?


                        Quote: bug120560
                        But the Ministry of Defense began to redeploy units already participating in the SVO, which had been previously withdrawn to the rear and were on rest.

                        That is, they already (!!!) had combat experience. And you, in a fit of unbridled enthusiasm, decided to replace experienced fighters with guys who had never smelled gunpowder? Do you even understand that our losses, according to your plan, would have been an order of magnitude higher?
                        Quote: bug120560
                        "the question itself is no longer correct. For any normal state, preserving the lives of its citizens or, if possible, reducing the level of combat losses is what should be done.

                        You, pretending to answer the question, have engaged in cheap demagogy. It is so difficult for you to understand that the 40-year-old who died (sorry for the cynicism, which is unavoidable in this situation) would not have had a child anyway, had he remained alive, because he already has children. And an 18-year-old will never have a child if he dies. But the state needs soldiers, so it protects 18-year-olds so that they can have children. Is it so difficult to understand?
                        Quote: bug120560
                        The state of the economy does not allow financing a contract army, which is numerically necessary for victory, but it is possible to win by using it to the fullest extent

                        You, like me, don’t understand anything about economics.
                        But I understand one thing - the more money people have, the greater the demand for goods. That is, the more people buy, the more goods the economy produces, and therefore develops
                        The money stays in the state and they start working. Actually, this is called - increasing the demand of the population.
                        Read G. Ford. There he directly answered his bourgeois colleagues to the question - why did you raise the wages of your workers? So that they could buy my cars, and I increased their output.
                        I suppose you are young. That's great in itself, but it's time to read more.
                      4. +1
                        20 January 2025 20: 33
                        Forgive me, it is not me who is demagoguery, but you. When the ratio of troops of the attacking and defending sides is "classic" (1 to 3), and superiority in technology is overwhelming, the presence of combat experience is no longer primary. The ability to control troops and "soberly" assess the situation is primary, and the blow will be crushing. As for youth - I do not know how old you are, personally I was born in 1960, I have two adult sons, one of them is a paratrooper, the second is a tank officer. As for reading, believe me - I read and a lot, I read G. Ford, both his biography and himself. I always admired his common sense and short but capacious phrases like: "if you have something, you either use it or lose it." And let's leave this unnecessary dispute, anyway, you either do not want or are not able to think independently.
                      5. 0
                        21 January 2025 12: 16
                        Quote: bug120560
                        Sorry, it's not me who is demagoguery, it's you.

                        Anyone who avoids answering a direct question, replacing the answer with verbosity on an abstract topic, is a demagogue.
                        After all, you still haven't answered my question. Because the answer is obvious, as is my rightness. hi
                      6. +1
                        21 January 2025 12: 42
                        I have answered your question more than once. I will repeat it if you do not get it. The fastest possible end to any military action is possible only as a result of massive strategic strikes. To organize such strikes, it is necessary to use a sufficient number of troops and to deliver concentrated strikes on the enemy rear. Without the use of large military formations, this is impossible. And heroically storming trenches in forest belts and small settlements, turning them into a lunar landscape (note, on your territory) is possible ad infinitum. One military operation organized according to the canons of military skill means significantly fewer losses than endlessly drawn-out military actions. This is an axiom, study history. And as for 18-year-old boys - take a close look at who is fighting today, most of them are those who just yesterday served their compulsory military service and no one whines about the fact that they are boys.
                      7. -1
                        21 January 2025 12: 46
                        Quote: bug120560
                        I have already answered your question more than once.

                        Well then. I'll have to repeat the question you never answered despite the huge amount of words wasted.
                        .
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk

                        And, besides, you did not answer the question - whose life is it more profitable for the state to save, an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old?
                      8. 0
                        21 January 2025 12: 56
                        If you don't get it - from the point of view (statistics) of preserving the population during military operations, the difference in age is not of fundamental importance. But the fact that an 18-year-old trained fighter is better than a 45-year-old reservist is indisputable. Now look at the official statistics, the reduction of the indigenous population of the Russian Federation began long before the start of the Central Military District. I am not convincing you of anything, I am simply calling on you to think.
                      9. -1
                        21 January 2025 15: 00
                        Quote: bug120560
                        If you don't get it

                        Count how many empty words you wrote, supposedly answering my question, but never answered it.
                        Continuous demagoguery.
                        Demagogy is useless, high-flown reasoning based on a one-sided understanding, interpretation of something, or covering up some selfish goals.
                      10. 0
                        21 January 2025 19: 54
                        Forgive me for being rude, but you are both deaf and blind and therefore simply stupid, since you do not accept any opinion other than your own.
                      11. -1
                        21 January 2025 20: 20
                        Quote: bug120560
                        Forgive me for being rude, but you are both deaf and blind and therefore simply stupid, since you do not accept any opinion other than your own.

                        What does someone's opinion have to do with it? Just answer the question.
                        But you will never answer it. Because the answer to this question explains to you, such a smart one, why it was impossible to throw conscripts, inexperienced guys, (!!) MVO into the Kursk region. And this is not my alleged opinion, this is the decision (!!) of the General Staff
                        And stubborn as you are, I won’t compare you with a completely worthy animal, it’s you, not me.
                      12. +1
                        22 January 2025 08: 07
                        I have already answered your question at least 5 times. If you do not understand and continue to carry "propaganda nonsense" about "inexperienced guys" this is your purely personal problem.
                      13. 0
                        22 January 2025 12: 07
                        Quote: bug120560
                        "propaganda nonsense" about "inexperienced guys" is your purely personal problem.

                        No, that's your problem. If only because you considered me a fool, without realizing that, along with me, you considered the General Staff and the president fools, who did not allow conscripts to be sent into battle.
                        Quote: bug120560
                        As for youth, I don’t know how old you are, but I was born in 1960 and have two grown sons, one of them a paratrooper, the other a tank officer.

                        So ask your officer sons, if they had a choice, who would they take with them into battle: conscripts who have never smelled gunpowder, or battle-tested contract soldiers whose average age is 45?
                      14. 0
                        22 January 2025 13: 50
                        When I wrote to you that you are both deaf and blind and therefore simply stupid, I meant that you are not capable of objectively assessing the situation yourself, but live exclusively with the "other" mind. And doesn't it seem to you that by comparing yourself with the General Staff and the President you suffer from delusions of grandeur? For someone like you, especially gifted - yes, I consider the strategy leading to the prolongation of military operations, which the leadership of the Russian Federation is using today, not only erroneous, but also dangerous and not leading to a reduction in human losses.
                      15. 0
                        22 January 2025 19: 36
                        Quote: bug120560
                        When I wrote to you that you are both deaf and blind

                        Okay, I'm deaf and blind, but will you answer my question?
                        Who is more profitable for the state to keep alive, 18-year-olds or 45-year-olds. Just briefly - one or the other. And don't shake your ass like you know who.
                        Well, and by the way, you asked your sons who they would go into battle with, if they had a choice, with 18-year-old inexperienced boys, or with 45-year-old experienced fighters.
                        I know that you will not answer the question because you are cowardly, and you will not ask because you know what your sons will tell you and you are also cowardly.
                        And, if it comes down to it, God forbid that a situation arises in which we are forced to send the boys into battle.
                      16. 0
                        22 January 2025 21: 52
                        I will answer simply, if you still have not understood. A normal state does not and cannot make a difference whose life is more important. And for your information, this is enshrined in the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Now regarding the opinion of your children - unlike you, they know very well what a military oath, duty and order are, so if necessary, they will fight where and how they are ordered.
                      17. 0
                        22 January 2025 22: 41
                        Quote: bug120560
                        A normal state does not and cannot make a difference whose life is more important.

                        And in terms of population reproduction too? After all, it is from this point of view that I prefer to protect the lives of the boys.
                        Quote: bug120560
                        the difference is whose life is more important. And for your information, this is enshrined in the Constitution of the Russian Federation.

                        What is enshrined in the Constitution? That 18-year-old boys should be sent into battle. You are considering the article of the Constitution from an angle that is favorable to you. And this is the wrong position.
                        Quote: bug120560
                        . Now, regarding the opinion of your children - they, unlike you, know very well what a military oath, duty and order are, so if necessary, they will fight where and how they are ordered.

                        Shake your ass again like you know who.
                        You deliberately forgot one condition I mentioned - if they are given the right to choose. Read my post more carefully. And don't "forget" the words of your opponent.
                      18. 0
                        23 January 2025 08: 32
                        You know, for some reason, talking to you reminded me of an old joke. Scientists, in an experiment to test Darwin's theory, taught a monkey to speak and tried to test the thesis that work turned the monkey into a man. To do this, they placed a palm tree with a banana in a cage, the trunk of which was treated with a special compound so that the monkey could not climb a stick. They began to watch, and after unsuccessful attempts to climb, the monkey began to shake the palm tree vigorously. Think carefully, the scientist addressed the monkey. It stopped shaking the palm tree for a moment and replied, what is there to think about, you need to shake it. This is your way of thinking. You wander in a circle of your own thoughts, not listening to any arguments different from your opinion, but also not providing any of your own arguments. And now you are writing only because you think that if my post is the last one, I have won the argument. This is the position (to put it mildly) of a simply stupid person.
                      19. 0
                        23 January 2025 11: 23
                        Quote: bug120560
                        You know, why do I feel so good when talking to you?

                        And from communicating with you, I realized that you are a coward and a demagogue.
                        You wrote a huge post just to avoid answering the question.
                        So will you answer my question? And what did your sons tell you? wassat
                      20. 0
                        23 January 2025 13: 42
                        As for the coward and the demagogue, this is from the category - the thief shouts "stop the thief" louder than anyone else. And the answer to the question was roughly the same for both - there will be a command - we will go. And now answer one of my questions, only argue with your own arguments, and not propaganda cliches - on what basis do you consider the prolongation of military operations with an increase in losses of the most able-bodied population, preferable to the speedy end of military operations using the regular army?
                      21. 0
                        23 January 2025 14: 08
                        Quote: bug120560
                        And the answer to the question was approximately the same for both of them - if there is a command, we will go.

                        And again you cowardly avoid answering questions, for some unclear reason combining two different questions.
                        The first question concerned exclusively the catastrophic state of demography, which you want to aggravate by sending fertile boys to their deaths and leaving at home men who will not be able to persuade their 40-year-old wives to have a child.
                        The answer to the second question is obvious, and you understand this, but you don’t like to lose and therefore you cowardly avoid it, just like the first question, preferring to flood the questions with a stream of demagogy.
                        I have an answer to your question, but without receiving an answer to my questions, I will not answer on principle. Because I know the tricks of demagogues - to answer a question with a question.
                      22. 0
                        23 January 2025 14: 16
                        Sorry, it wasn't my intention to be rude, but you're not just a buffoon and a demagogue, you're a downright tw... If you suffer from impotence at 40, you shouldn't apply it to all men in the country. I've already answered your questions and I think it should be clear even to the dumbest. You simply have nothing to answer my question.
                      23. 0
                        23 January 2025 18: 02
                        Quote: bug120560
                        If you suffer from impotence at 40, you shouldn’t apply this to all men in the country.

                        Where did I talk about men who are unable to conceive?
                        I continue to admire your brains - what a breadth of interpretation! I said that a woman at 40 is unlikely to want to have a child. But you, as always, shaking your ass, tried to distort my words. Not good. This characterizes you poorly. Although, where could it be worse? negative
                        Quote: bug120560
                        Sorry, it wasn't my intention to be rude,

                        Well, don't be rude
                        Quote: bug120560
                        I have already answered your questions and I think so,

                        Sorry, I somehow missed it - so what did your sons answer? Who would they go into battle with?, if they had a choice? I specifically highlighted it so that you wouldn’t try to blind me again with your high-flown words about the oath.
                        Quote: bug120560
                        You simply have nothing to answer my question.

                        There is something. I just wait for a clear and short answer to my 2 questions from you. And don't beat around the bush.
                      24. 0
                        23 January 2025 19: 23
                        Once again, forgive me, but you are more stupid than I initially thought. Statistics will help you - look at how many marriages are concluded by 18-year-olds, how many women marry their peers. Regarding your stupid question about choosing with whom to go into battle - in the army there is no right to choose, there is an order. Without it, there is no army. In addition, if you stubbornly do not want to notice, pay attention that I never wrote that it is necessary to send to the front everyone who has reached the age of 18. I just wanted to convey to your brains that I believe that achieving victory with the forces that are involved today is simply impossible and that sooner or later we will still have to either mobilize or fully use the already assembled army. Without this, victory is simply impossible, only collusion and a temporary truce are possible, followed by an even more brutal war, postponed exactly as long as it will be necessary to restore the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But it is obvious that explaining something to someone who has a formatted hard drive instead of a brain, clogged with propaganda garbage is a completely useless exercise.
                      25. 0
                        24 January 2025 09: 34
                        Quote: bug120560
                        Regarding your stupid question about choosing who to go into battle with - in the army there is no right to choose, there is an order.

                        I think it is useless to argue with a manipulative person.

                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Who would they go into battle with? if they had a choice? I specifically highlighted it so that you wouldn’t try to blind me again with your high-flown words about the oath.

                        For those especially gifted with an unclouded mind - the key word is - if
                        But you are unable to understand what you read, and yet you praise your mental abilities.
                        I consider further dialogue useless.
                      26. 0
                        24 January 2025 11: 33
                        If grandma had..., it would be grandpa. Unfortunately, I can't give you another answer to your nonsense. But otherwise I agree - let's stop this unnecessary dialogue. As the proverb says - only the grave can straighten a hunchback.
                  2. 0
                    20 January 2025 11: 54
                    Of course at 18 he's a boy
            3. +2
              19 January 2025 19: 08
              The fact that the stated goals of the SVO could not be achieved became clear to everyone after the first month of the war.

              Alas, the Kremlin was masterfully caught in a trap.
              As of today, there are no other options other than stopping the fighting along the front line.

              Not quite a small advancement is present and we must continue to take advantage of it; the calibrations for the thermal power plant were not in vain for them.
              There are neither the strength nor the means to defeat the enemy on the battlefield.

              But if the enemy is not defeated, then he will win.
              So the choice is not great: either a bad peace, or we continue to lose people

              False conclusion, the Anglo-Saxons have sentenced you, me and us, the choice is either to win or die. There will be no bad peace, but 4 years of restoration of the combat capability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, after which they will defeat the Ministry of Defense with a massive bottom attack and mobilize you.
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          5. 0
            18 January 2025 12: 33
            "You must be strong, otherwise why should you be.
            What will be worth a thousand words
            When will the strength of the hand be important?" (V. Tsoi, Kino).
      2. + 10
        17 January 2025 13: 40
        But they never recovered from the disease.
        The same one because of which the media always shows "what's going on with the Americans" (I don't give a damn about them all, along with that continent, what good does it do us?)...
        The fire in California was discussed with tears, why didn't they buy the Be-200 from us? It would have helped, etc.
        1. +4
          17 January 2025 13: 43
          Quote: Karelian
          Why didn't they buy the Be-200 from us?

          Well, as a reason to sell the planes - that's a different story.
          Making and selling airplanes is much better than wasting raw resources.
          We're growing. Yes
        2. +1
          17 January 2025 13: 48
          They could have chartered all the Be 200s, it’s winter here now. Perhaps their pride doesn’t allow it.
          1. +3
            19 January 2025 19: 29
            Perhaps their pride doesn't allow them to.

            Do you think that in response to the destroyed oil refineries, ships, arsenals, we need to help put out the fires, those who did it? The last oil refinery in Engels is on fire.
      3. 0
        17 January 2025 14: 24
        The same one because of which the media always shows "what's going on with the Americans" (I don't give a damn about them all, along with that continent, what good does it do us?)...

        Of course. This is because it was not Lavrov or Putin who came up with the idea of ​​looking back to the West, but the Russian tsars, even before Peter.
        And the Bolsheviks did not break the tradition. Stalin's phrase "no need to do better, do it like the Americans" will live for centuries.
        1. + 17
          17 January 2025 14: 28
          Quote: bk316
          n, and also the Russian tsars, even before Peter.

          Only the tsars (at least Ivan IV and Peter I) brought specialists.
          Shipbuilders, gunners and other "techies".
          The army was improved so that all sorts of Europeans wouldn’t come running.
          The same communists (at least before the war) got smart enough to buy car factories (SCHKh car factory then and now are two very different things, for those years it was much cooler) "turnkey".
          And what is it now? Some kind of cargo cult.
        2. +5
          18 January 2025 08: 58
          Quote: bk316

          And the Bolsheviks did not break the tradition. Stalin's phrase "no need to do better, do it like the Americans" will live for centuries.

          You took the phrase out of context to give it a meaning that is beneficial to you. Not good. negative
      4. +1
        18 January 2025 07: 46
        Quote: Hitriy Zhuk
        The same one because of which the media always shows "what's going on with the Americans" (I don't give a damn about them all, along with that continent, what good does it do us?)...

        Of course, you can afford it. After all, you don't have to think about how to stop the flow of young people who want to live THERE and earn money with a view of the Eiffel Tower. You don't have to think about how to pay the army and doctors who are moving to work in delivery, or how to make parents pay attention to their own children who are setting ATMs on fire. You are a high-flying bird. You should outline a vector of development, like "the country shouldn't give a damn...", but how to implement it if the country's response is - go to hell...? And again, only the top brass is to blame for WHAT we grow. Only we are not mistaken, because we ourselves do nothing of what should be... laughing
        1. +4
          18 January 2025 08: 35
          Quote: Hagen
          Quote: Hitriy Zhuk
          The same one because of which the media always shows "what's going on with the Americans" (I don't give a damn about them all, along with that continent, what good does it do us?)...

          Of course, you can afford it. After all, you don't have to think about how to stop the flow of young people who want to live THERE and earn money with a view of the Eiffel Tower. You don't have to think about how to pay the army and doctors who are moving to work in delivery, or how to make parents pay attention to their own children who are setting ATMs on fire. You are a high-flying bird. You should outline a vector of development, like "the country shouldn't give a damn...", but how to implement it if the country's response is - go to hell...? And again, only the top brass is to blame for WHAT we grow. Only we are not mistaken, because we ourselves do nothing of what should be... laughing

          Well, it wasn't me who screwed up that everything turned out this way.
          These are the fruits of 30+ years of the current government.
          Yes, yes, the top brass is not to blame. It's just that the people are not of the right system. They have no sense of rank and generally don't like the masters. Why is that?
          1. +1
            18 January 2025 09: 54
            Quote: Hitriy Zhuk
            Why did it happen?

            And because the word "people" is used to cover up basic personal laziness. And in life, as in the kitchen - if you don't know how/don't want to cook, you eat what's served. That's why it's doubly offensive when some people shit themselves, and you're in the shit. request
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      1. -7
        17 January 2025 13: 38
        The most important thing is how Peskov's words are perceived in the West! By the way, they are perceived very interestingly, but here many Russians perceive his words painfully, equating themselves with Western politicians. bully
        1. +3
          17 January 2025 17: 49
          Here, and in the West, he is perceived as... No, not a clown... But as an amphibian trying to run away from the given topic as quickly as possible. Yes
      2. -2
        17 January 2025 13: 54
        Quote: Blue Fox
        Every iron every day says that we are ready for dialogue, etc.

        "To promise is not to marry! "©

        At every meeting our Chief of Staff would say, "I'm going to get as drunk as hell today!!" © and he didn't drink at all, in principle...
        And if you listen to him like that, you'd think he's never sobered up from booze...
    4. + 16
      17 January 2025 13: 48
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Somehow I don’t see that our leaders who have the right to make decisions are looking into Trump’s mouth.

      How else to understand the unanswered sinking of Ursa Major? How to understand the attacks on our regions by Western missiles, without clear answers?
      That's right, they're sitting and waiting, and what about Trump? And how can they not provoke him?
      In general, traders are traders. They stole everything and sold it.
      1. -14
        17 January 2025 13: 50
        You are suggesting to resort to lawlessness and start a third world war.
        1. + 22
          17 January 2025 13: 52
          Quote: tralflot1832
          You are suggesting to resort to lawlessness and start a third world war.

          I propose to stop robbing and selling out the country, and get down to business. So far it's just talk. But with the current chess player, nothing else is possible.
          1. -13
            17 January 2025 13: 56
            Zoer. Stop the economy during the war, who are we working for?
            1. + 16
              17 January 2025 13: 58
              Quote: tralflot1832
              Stop the economy during war, who are we working for?

              Ah, well, if for you theft = economics, then it doesn’t even matter who YOU ​​work for.
              1. -6
                17 January 2025 14: 03
                On Russian sport. And "for" with both hands for athletes who refuse to compete under the white flag.
            2. +9
              17 January 2025 15: 51
              Quote: tralflot1832
              Stop the economy during war

              Robbery and sale of the country means the economy?
        2. + 19
          17 January 2025 14: 15
          Quote: tralflot1832
          You are suggesting to resort to lawlessness and start a third world war.

          Where do you get such confidence from? Have you served in the RF (USSR) Armed Forces as a unit commander or higher?
          No one will start the TMV with strikes against Russia.
          A single strike against GB, Poland, Denmark and other tribalts in response to arms supplies to Ukraine and damage to the Russian economy will remain unanswered.
          And this is not a fairy tale, but a firm conviction that this is the only way for brainless Europe to understand that Russia cannot be terrorized...
          And the lawlessness is committed by those who sit safely behind stone walls, go out for a walk behind the guards' backs and continue to puff out their cheeks and draw red lines, believing that 20 rubles is a sufficient amount to pay for their work...
          Our government is not even capable of organizing bitcoin mining using the capacity of Siberian hydroelectric power plants, running into some debt obligations of countries that are accustomed to ONLY stealing and SPECULATION...
          1. -9
            17 January 2025 14: 21
            I already told you that I had access when the operational tactical maps of the division commander and the chief of staff were being prepared. They did not show the strikes of the Strategic Missile Forces, but they did show what we had in the division. Nothing has changed. 1981-83.
            1. +8
              17 January 2025 14: 25
              And I have often attended meetings of officers of the rank of chiefs of the branches of the army and district, where various issues of tactics and strategy were discussed.
              There the idea came down to one thing - nuclear weapons must be perfect and invulnerable...
            2. +5
              18 January 2025 12: 31
              Andrey, if your division was not in the Strategic Missile Forces, then you have not seen the flight route map.
              (blows). And she was. I was shocked when I accidentally saw her. The whole world was in pieces, and not just once. belay fellow
              1. 0
                18 January 2025 12: 37
                Soldiers V hi I did not serve in the Strategic Missile Forces, but our fart could have reached Bonn, but the targets were airfields and transport interchanges. Open the road to Bonn. The algorithm for using TNW, RMSD is still unclear to me. Before or after a global fart. There will be a global fart anyway.
          2. + 13
            17 January 2025 14: 36
            Quote: yuriy55
            A single strike against GB, Poland, Denmark and other tribalts in response to arms supplies to Ukraine and damage to the Russian economy will remain unanswered.

            I have a premonition that we will have to liberate the Baltics too... And the main reason is access to the Baltic and the Kaliningrad region, to lift the blockade and to control the logistics of sea vessels. They are behaving very brazenly and defiantly.
            If we act very quickly and unexpectedly, and present NATO with a fait accompli, and even with the threat of using tactical nuclear weapons, then they are unlikely to intervene for the Balts. And even present documents - like, our property, bought by Peter I from the Swedes, we have returned what is rightfully ours.....
            This is of course my opinion, but a corridor and access to the sea are strategically necessary.
            1. + 10
              17 January 2025 14: 39
              Quote: Askold65
              And also present documents - like, our property was bought by Peter I from the Swedes, we got back our rightful...

              That's it!
              If you didn't want to live in the Russian state, take your belongings and go to Europe to your favorite faggots. And at the same time, add reparations to those 2 efimki +%% for what was created during the Soviet period...
              wink
            2. +9
              17 January 2025 14: 50
              Quote: Askold65
              I have a feeling that we will have to liberate the Baltics too.

              Denmark and Sweden will also have to be liberated.
              They will soon close the Denmark Strait.
              Half of NATO will have to be liberated before they come to their senses.
              We don’t have enough strength for such a war, if anything, the USSR didn’t dare to do it together with the Warsaw Pact.
              And if without liberation, then several strikes with tactical nuclear weapons on the particularly violent ones will be needed and the entire war with the Russian Federation will end for NATO.
              1. +9
                17 January 2025 15: 02
                Quote: Alexey Sommer
                Denmark and Sweden will also have to be liberated.
                They will soon close the Denmark Strait.

                It's not even about the straits, I agree with you that there won't be enough strength, but a land corridor to Kaliningrad and control over the Baltic Sea from the southern coast. In case of a skirmish with them, threaten their communications in the Baltic Sea. Well, and move the border away from the Leningrad Region and the overhanging ledge over Belarus too.
                1. +6
                  17 January 2025 15: 29
                  Quote: Askold65
                  Well, and to move the border away from the Leningrad region and the overhanging ledge over Belarus too.

                  That is the question.
                  Will NATO agree that these Russian demands are fair?
                  1. +8
                    17 January 2025 15: 47
                    Quote: Alexey Sommer
                    Will NATO agree that these Russian demands are fair?

                    I wrote that we need to act decisively and unexpectedly and confront them with the FACT, and not ask for their consent. Which they will never give anyway. Any reason can be found, from plans to deploy nuclear weapons near our borders or threats and sabotage to our communications (they are constantly tearing up communication cables between Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg).
                    1. +6
                      17 January 2025 15: 49
                      Quote: Askold65
                      I wrote that we need to act. decisively and unexpectedly and confront them with the FACT

                      Have you seen anything similar from our current leadership?
                      1. +3
                        17 January 2025 15: 55
                        Quote: Alexey Sommer
                        Have you seen anything similar from our current leadership?

                        There was something similar in Syria. And in Ukraine they started in good health, but continue for the repose of the soul... Although this should have been done earlier, as Putin himself recently admitted.
                        It is already obvious that it is time to change the leadership to one that is more decisive and adequate to the threats. From younger people, instead of the current ruling cowardly and corrupt gerontocracy...
                      2. +5
                        17 January 2025 15: 59
                        So you yourself answered.
                        Regarding Syria, it is still not clear why we did this?
                        As for Ukraine.
                        Starting too late is the same as not doing it at all. It's like going to the toilet but going too late. Now you'll have to change your pants.
                      3. +7
                        17 January 2025 17: 05
                        Quote: Alexey Sommer
                        Regarding Syria, it is still not clear why we did this?

                        Well, everything was clear there - support Assad and help Iran for control of Syria in their logistics to the Mediterranean Sea and Lebanon. And also keep Israel at a distance from its Iranian borders. Iran itself did not take it out. At first it worked, and then something went wrong...
                        In essence, we needed bases and therefore it was necessary to take control of the whole of Alawite Latakia. Iran either did not have the strength or the determination to hold the whole of Syria. And we already had another, our own BIG problem and had no time for them...

                        Quote: Alexey Sommer
                        Starting too late is the same as not doing it at all.

                        There is a saying: better late than never.....This is exactly our case.
                        Quote: Alexey Sommer
                        It's like going to the toilet but going too late. Now you'll have to change your pants.

                        If you decide to use physiology as an example, then it is better to change your pants than to rupture your bladder....
                    2. +6
                      17 January 2025 15: 49
                      Quote: Askold65
                      I wrote that we need to act decisively and unexpectedly.

                      Unfortunately, our leadership is not capable of this.
          3. 0
            20 January 2025 11: 59
            and who needs this mining anyway
        3. + 14
          17 January 2025 15: 08
          You suggest going into chaos and starting a third world war.
          In fact, it’s already happening, the escalation is increasing.
  2. + 12
    17 January 2025 13: 29
    Even if Trump meets with Putin, it will be a conversation on general topics, in which Ukraine will not be the main topic. As long as there are conditions for ending the conflict that are unacceptable to the parties, there is no talk of negotiations.
  3. +2
    17 January 2025 13: 39
    this SVO will drag on for decades
    1. -3
      17 January 2025 13: 45
      Russian is not a role for you? Operation is feminine, not masculine.
      1. -2
        17 January 2025 15: 10
        Looking at the mistake in the word RODNOY, you start to doubt whether Russian is your native language? Just kidding. I often forget to check what I've written.
  4. + 22
    17 January 2025 13: 39
    But in the US and other parts of the world they would still like to live a little longer
    I really want to hope for everyone's common sense, because "it's too early for us to die, we still have things to do at home!", and I think to everyone "but we really want to live, guys..." ©
    Considering the historical experience of contacts with the West – there are zero point zero guarantees. Starting all over again in the same four years – well, that’s not so great…
    I agree with the Author, this is not an option from the word "completely". While Suvorov said that it remains to act "A man who loves his neighbors, a man who hates war, must finish off the enemy, so that after one war another does not begin." If this is not done now, then really
    tomorrow even what has been happening for the last almost three years may seem like a piece of cake.
    1. + 12
      17 January 2025 13: 56
      Quote: Destiny
      while as Suvorov said, it remains to act: “A man who loves his neighbors, a man who hates war, must finish off the enemy so that one war does not start another.” If this is not done now, then really

      There are even very recent historical examples. The 1st and 2nd Chechen wars. And yes, let me remind you. The 2nd Chechen war ended only after the country's leader changed to a more decisive one.
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        2. +2
          17 January 2025 16: 00
          Paying for peace is more profitable than having a gangster nest. And they don't steal more money there than in other regions. At the same time, they buy our Priors there, not foreign cars
          1. +6
            17 January 2025 17: 43
            One can partially agree. But have they eradicated the bandit nest there? That is the question.
            1. +2
              17 January 2025 19: 15
              Well, they don't create big problems, they commit banditry (on their own) rather because of poverty. Where rich people live - bandits put on jackets.
    2. +9
      17 January 2025 16: 10
      Quote: Destiny
      A man who loves his neighbors, a man who hates war, must finish off the enemy so that one war does not lead to another.

      But our leadership apparently has never heard of this.
    3. +4
      17 January 2025 18: 37
      Quote: Destiny
      While Suvorov said that it remains to act: “A man who loves his neighbors, a man who hates war, must finish off the enemy so that another war does not start after one.”

      but with all due respect to Suvorov, the main part of his wars was with Turkey, which was never finished off even once... as a result, today we are "partners" and do not fight... and we were not spared from future wars, victories over Poland, France
  5. +8
    17 January 2025 13: 47
    On the other hand, Russia does not need an endless war either. Especially if we continue this "gentleman's agreement" and continue to fight "with guns and soldiers"... This is an obvious fact from the point of view of economics, demography, social issues, as well as from the political point of view.

    Everything seems obvious, but... Despite the fact that Russia has been slapped with sanctions, there are no particular counter-sanctions. In addition, we are a law-abiding member of the WTO and fulfill the IOM orders. Therefore, most likely, the first thing that will be taken into account, from our side, is the interests of our oligarchs, everything else is secondary. In addition, since it is not the oligarchs and the capitalist system that are the enemy of the West, but the Soviet missile and nuclear potential, this topic should be raised by the West, naturally, in the name of "peace and humanism".
    Whether the "plan" for the mutual destruction of the Slavic population by Russia and Ukraine "with guns and soldiers" has been fulfilled is also a question of how the West is interested in reconciliation in this.
  6. + 12
    17 January 2025 14: 00
    The peace after the end of the conflict must be just.

    So what's the catch?
    Let's return to the successor of the USSR the territories that were transferred to Ukraine by the government of the USSR (in the end, let them decide the fate of the regions in a referendum...except for those already included)...
    And turning Ukraine into a NATO base is a total bummer...
    * * *
    In case of a hopeless situation, it would be easier for Russia to turn part of the territory into a sanitary zone...
  7. + 16
    17 January 2025 14: 00
    "Guns and soldiers" fought a fair amount, the world does not want a nuclear war - is there a chance for a real and fair end of the Ukrainian conflict

    Justice is an abstract concept without any connection to specific parties.
    For now, the positions of the Russian Federation and NATO, to put it mildly, do not coincide and a compromise is not in sight.
    All this talk about Trump as a peacemaker is wrong, it is just ordinary election political rhetoric.
  8. + 17
    17 January 2025 14: 25
    .. in the States they understand.. having already transferred to Ukraine practically everything possible from conventional weapons and not having achieved “victory over Russia on the battlefield”, the next step is only nuclear weapons

    Another attempt to pass off wishful thinking as reality. Let's be honest. Pinpoint missile strikes deep into Russian territory (and the distance can be gradually increased) can cause very significant damage, since the number of defense industry plants is small and their protection is very conditional. The same applies to fuel and energy complex facilities. Of course, there is a risk of running into a serious "retaliatory strike". But the entire previous course of events suggests that this risk is minimal - so far "flies" exclusively into the outskirts. In addition, almost no one in the West believes that Putin is capable of using nuclear weapons in principle.
  9. +4
    17 January 2025 14: 29
    On the other hand, Russia does not need an endless war either. Especially if we continue this "gentleman's agreement" and continue to fight "with guns and soldiers"... This is an obvious fact from the point of view of economics, demography, social issues, as well as from the political point of view.

    It is absolutely obvious that Trump will put forward unacceptable conditions to Russia, at least initially. And then there will be a long war and sanctions. And Russia will not be able to handle a long war and sanctions. And then: 1) mobilization of everyone and everything, and not only fighters, but also industry; 2) a nuclear strike on Ukraine, and a hard one at that, so that the West will shit its pants. Otherwise, the West will not understand anything.
    In general, the choice is small.
  10. + 11
    17 January 2025 14: 41
    Personally, I am in favor of a large strategic operation, to go to the Kyiv-Odessa line or a little further west, to stand on this line with an army of 1-2 million people, to equip an echeloned engineering defensive line 50 km deep, to occupy it with troops, to stand on this line, to present everyone with a fait accompli and to say that everything to the east of this line we understand as the concept of "Russian land", and we can only be moved from this line by nuclear weapons, but then we too... At the same time, those regions that remained behind the line and that have not yet become part of Russia can form an independent (formally) state "Russian state", in which the only state language will be Russian.
    To do this, form in the rear as many tank and motorized divisions as necessary, and to do this, carry out additional mobilization into the troops and military factories.
    As for the state of "Ukraine", we revoke its international recognition within its former borders, we recognize it, and we recognize it starting from the Vinnytsia and Zhitomir regions and further to the west. The justification is that the USSR broke up incorrectly.
  11. + 10
    17 January 2025 14: 59
    Despite the fact that the US continues to publish materials from the series: “How many people can survive on the East Coast in the event of a nuclear strike”,

    There were hurricanes Katrina and New Orleans in their time, and today the fire in California is before our eyes as a reminder of what awaits them, but on a scale that is millions of times larger.
  12. +4
    17 January 2025 17: 20
    The talks are not about Ukraine. These talks are about a new world order. That is why they are so difficult for the US, because we are talking about lowering their status or in any way refusing to try to maintain hegemony through boundless aggression.

    The conflict itself is an attempt by the West to preserve its fading hegemony. The hope was apparently to impose a cosmopolitan attitude on the planet, to weaken everything and everyone. To remove everything that consolidates in one way or another - religions, cultures, nations and states.
    The Russian Federation was especially an obstacle to this, with its example, its diplomacy, its culture and its ability for strategic communication at the global level. In order to subjugate China, the West had to subjugate and plunder Russia.

    This conflict is a deliberate aggression against the Russian Federation by the Anglo-Saxons, who, due to their stupidity and long-lost sovereignty, were joined by Europe.

    The negotiations will inevitably raise the status of the Russian Federation in the world. And where it increases, it inevitably decreases somewhere. And the hegemony of the USA is decreasing and the opportunity to rein in China with the least effort is closing.

    Therefore, the Russian Federation does not seek to destroy the entity called Ukraine. The Russian Federation has created a situation where the West either agrees with Russia's new status or will be forced to wage war with Russia further, including after the collapse of Ukraine, in the form of a tough cold war with elements of direct active actions. Europe is definitely not ready for this, which is evident from the changes in governments.

    They will discuss how Russia will actually win and how the US will stop it.
  13. +3
    17 January 2025 17: 51
    Quote: Askold65
    Chechnya reminds me of Galicia in some way.

    Very similar to that.
  14. 0
    17 January 2025 18: 39
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    This means that the goals of the SVO will not be achieved.

    Where is the certainty that the goals have not been achieved? Who can guarantee that the officially declared goals are true?
    So far it is clear that the goal of enslaving the former Ukrainian SSR has been achieved. The industry has been destroyed, the assets are in foreign companies, the country is in debt for decades. The population, which was allied in 1945, is now hostile.
  15. +4
    17 January 2025 18: 51
    Quote from gribanow.c
    To do this, form in the rear as many tank and motorized divisions as necessary, and to do this, carry out additional mobilization into the troops and military factories.

    Dreamer.
    What should they form divisions from? Where can they get equipment, command staff, technical specialists, soldiers? One MSP has up to 200 combat armored vehicles according to the staff, and an MSD has more than 600. What other numerous divisions?
    The fighting has been going on for three years now using the reserves accumulated by the USSR.
    There is nowhere and no one to organize mass production of military equipment.
    And it won’t be possible to mobilize the people en masse—whom should we mobilize—migrants, the capital’s office plankton, the children of oligarchs, the Caucasus?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +6
      17 January 2025 19: 33
      To do this, we will have to shake up the country from top to bottom, introduce the death penalty, and perhaps even close the borders to exit. But we will have to do this anyway, and we will still need such a strong, numerous army, and better than it, and a military-industrial base for it, to create now, in a relatively peaceful and calm environment, while there is still time, maybe 3-5 years, so that we do not have to do it in a hurry under bombs. When the whole world comes into motion and wars of all against all begin for new borders
  16. +6
    17 January 2025 20: 19
    IMHO, in short - we got in, but it’s not clear how to get out.
    But for the media, there is a sea of ​​unplowed material. To write and rewrite notes, explanations, denunciations, accusations and promises.
    (this is naturally all about them, then all THEY, as Zhirinovsky said)
  17. +2
    17 January 2025 20: 44
    Quote: Reporter
    There are neither the strength nor the means to defeat the enemy on the battlefield.

    There are forces, there are resources, but one person lacks the willpower to apply all of this, and the generals lack the ability to apply it.
  18. +1
    18 January 2025 00: 34
    Quote from gribanow.c
    we will still need such a strong, numerous army, and better than it, and the military-industrial basis for it, to create now

    Once again - who will create the military-industrial base for Chemezov and Manturov? Where will they get workers and engineers - introduce serfdom?
    You are not just a dreamer - you are a sick person - you need to see a doctor immediately.
  19. -1
    18 January 2025 00: 38
    Quote: yuriy55
    A single strike against GB, Poland, Denmark and other tribalts in response to arms supplies to Ukraine and damage to the Russian economy will remain unanswered.

    You are simply a sick person, you need to see a doctor, and urgently.
  20. 0
    18 January 2025 00: 45
    Quote: Askold65
    Chechnya reminds me of Galicia in some way.

    This is not a correct analogy - tribal militia is a convenient tool for fighting discontent within the Russian Federation. That is why they are needed - the last reserve, so to speak.
  21. +2
    18 January 2025 22: 00
    "...., To dampen the momentum of the Russian systematic offensive operation on all fronts"
    I think even if our troops advanced 50-100 km, neither the US nor Europe would be particularly concerned, and we are still where we started. There is no critically dangerous advance of our troops for Zelensky, and the West does not refuse to support him, yes, not everything is smooth, but they have not abandoned Ukraine yet, they promise, in six months, but they are still promising. Hope for Trump, but do not be lazy yourself, something like that.
    1. 0
      18 January 2025 22: 52
      and we are still where we started

      Yes, December-January the progress is weak. If you count and round even by 50 km, it will be zero. Of course, if you count in hundreds of meters, then the progress is certainly significant.
  22. +3
    18 January 2025 23: 45
    Any injections either do not lead to any results for the “givers”... but the States need an “output”


    hello... )) and the hundreds of billions of injections into the US defense industry? "arms barons" are very pleased with the results! ))
    and now Trump is putting pressure on the EU to raise budgets and place orders strictly with the American defense industry! ))
    and it is important to understand that the question is NOT "is it beneficial to the US", but "is it beneficial to specific lobbyists". and in this case, everything is ok in the US military-industrial complex.
    The EU is firmly planted on American energy sources - another whole industry of lobbyists and beneficiaries.
    there will be no competitive Russian pipelines, or even LNG (in the near future) in the EU at all, and they will not let you into any market they want to keep you out of)

    already without the same enthusiasm, and Zelensky has to travel several thousand kilometers more to get new packages


    oyli? )) in the last 2 months the Bidenites have been shoving money into Ukraine in such billions that they didn't have time to chew and swallow it, put it under the mattress and heat it in the stove ))
    weapons - almost any! ammunition - welcome, everything you have, "permits" - any!)
    Ze no longer knows what else to come up with as an excuse.
    So far the only shortage is motivated soldiers.

    and money (taking into account the above-mentioned benefits to a bunch of lobbyists) - well, they will definitely find a couple of hundred billion eurodollars a year at least.

    this war is a mega-profitable investment for the US, and, in fact, for all those “not subject to mobilization and their relatives” in Ukraine itself (they didn’t even dream of such gold flows after all the “entries to the EU”).

    the losers from the continuation of military actions are the "old EU" and Russia, yes.
  23. 0
    19 January 2025 13: 17
    Quote: Reporter
    Well then we have a problem.
    You want victory and control over the entire territory of Ukraine. But at the same time you cannot fight (according to your words).
    And who should go and bring you this victory then?? While you wait at home on the couch?? Any suggestions?

    Maybe then, in this case, since you yourself are not able to fight, it is still a bad peace?

    What can you brag about yourself, other than free recommendations to those present here? winked Maybe your track record will be better than that of the entire "VO" audience? bully
  24. -2
    23 January 2025 21: 08
    Quote: bug120560
    Now answer one of my questions, just use your own arguments, not propaganda cliches - on what basis do you consider the prolongation of military operations with an increase in losses of the most able-bodied population, preferable to the speedy end of military operations using the regular army?

    And so you want to justify Zelensky's quick decision to forcibly send people to the front from the age of 18?! Like - "that guy is a good guy and that's what we need"? Do you really think that 18-year-old boys who haven't lived yet, who haven't been hardened by life, experience, who haven't started a family, haven't had children yet, etc., etc., should be thrown, without special need, into the fires of war? In my opinion, only a very ruthless person can think like that...
  25. 0
    29 January 2025 07: 37
    The question is no longer what kind of victory will be on the battlefield.
    The question is who will win in Russian power - warriors or parasites.
    If the parasites win, then sanctions will be lifted, foreign real estate will be returned, and the industry will further collapse, the country will return to its role as a gas station. And then a series of new inevitable military and political defeats.
    If we manage to get rid of the parasites, there will be a rise in industry, a strengthening of the army, and real guarantees of a lasting peace.