Military Review

Gun OZ-23 Dart - do not dare to bury!

50
Recently, articles, mostly, go about foreign weapon, it's time to restore the balance and take up domestic samples. And it’s probably worth starting with the Dart pistol, which was developed by the designers Stechkin, Balzer and Zinchenko, all the more so that they asked about this weapon to make an article in the comments under the material about gun Five-seveN. At once it must be said that the weapon is very rare, it was produced in very small batches and did not receive the spread in view of the low-power cartridge used in this gun. Nevertheless, the sample is very interesting, having its own unique features and quite suitable for it to be “reanimated” in our time, of course, by adapting it to more effective ammunition. But first things first, but let's start, as usual, with the ammunition for this weapon, since the 5,45x18 cartridge of the MPTs is not as well known as the others.


Probably the most important feature of the 5,45х18 cartridge is that it was developed by a woman. Do not think, I have nothing against women's participation in the arms business, but usually this is rare. However, at the beginning of 70-s, Antonina Dmitrievna Denisova began work on creating a small-caliber cartridge for a pistol that could compete with 9x17 and 9x18 in its characteristics, but it would be smaller, have less impact when fired and had more armor. The main idea of ​​the designer was that with a sufficient length of the bullet and its wrong balance, even with a small caliber, it will completely give its energy to the body of the enemy. In addition, it was assumed that the design of the bullet would contribute to the spreading of Kevlar fibers in body armor, and not tear them, which would provide the best armor-piercing qualities of this ammunition. In addition, the high ability to pierce armor was to provide the core of the bullet. In theory, everything looked fine, and in practice everything was partially confirmed. All but the stopping action. There do not throw tomatoes, for armor-piercing - the cartridge 5,45х18 really surpasses the regular cartridge of the Makarov pistol, so we can talk about the achievement of the set result.

As a result of the work of Antonina Dmitrievna Denisova, a cartridge weighing 10,2 grams, well known to all by the small-sized PSM pistol, was born. There are two versions of the cartridge with a bullet weighing 2,4 grams and a bullet with a mass of 2,6 grams, while the initial speed of both variants of bullets when used in a PSM pistol is equal to 325 meters per second, respectively, the kinetic energy of these projectiles is ridiculous values ​​of 119 and 129 Joule. Interesting is the design of the bullet. In its nose part there is a steel core, and behind it is lead to increase the weight of the bullet. Thus, it turns out that the center of gravity of such a bullet is shifted back, which is not good, especially under the condition that the designer intended to increase the striking ability of the bullet due to its length. However, this is a pistol cartridge, so there is nothing wrong with that. On the contrary, such a balancing bullet contributes to somersaults already in the body of the enemy, and this is just very good, not for the enemy, of course. Since the steel core was located in front of the bullet, another problem arose in the form of ricochets. To get rid of it, it was necessary to cut off the nose of a bullet, which partially deprived the missile-projectile ricocheting ability, but had a negative effect on the armor-piercing. It was this kind of ammunition that was decided to be used in a new pistol.

At the beginning of the 90-s of the last century, not the most successful idea to combat the means of individual armor in the form of hitting bullets at one point persistently advanced in the domestic arms business. Of course, this was impossible to do, however, even getting close, theoretically, the bullets hit the enemy for sure. The main idea was that the first bullet had to destroy personal protective equipment, and the second one should have hit the enemy in a cleared way. The designers who took up the creation of the OZ-23 pistol had a slightly different view on the use of this phenomenon. Thus, instead of armor-piercing, the main emphasis was placed on the fact that when the bullets hit each other, their stopping action could be summed up, which means that it was possible to create a sample of weapons with low recoil, but with very high efficiency. Well, armor-piercing, of course, was not superfluous, but in practice the theory worked through time, and even after three.

Thus, the initial vision of such weapons as a pistol with the possibility of automatic fire with a cut-off of small-caliber bullets was created. When you first look at the weapon, it becomes clear that the APS for this gun is a relative, albeit distant, so many similarities in the appearance of the weapon, but not the exterior paints the gun. A much more interesting moment was the implementation of the automatic operation of the pistol, with very low recoil, but with a very high combat potential. Despite the fact that the weapon has a rather serious appearance and weight, even a child can shoot from it, moreover, it can shoot with automatic fire, without a butt and with one hand. First of all, it is necessary to note the notch in the barrel, which plays the role of a recoil compensator and does not allow the barrel to pick up when firing. But this solves only one problem, since the movement of a rather massive casing-shutter is clearly not the most positive effect on the accuracy of the weapon, especially given the rate of fire of 1800 shots per minute. It was this problem that Stechkin solved, and he decided brilliantly simple.

Automatic pistol built on a scheme with a free gate, but something in this simple mechanism has been modified. When fired, the powder gases tend to push the bullet out of the barrel, and the cartridge case from the chamber. Only the valve, spring-loaded with a return spring, interferes with the release of the sleeve. As a result of this, already after the bullet has left the barrel of the pistol, the bolt saves the received energy from the cartridge case and moves back. In the process of movement of the housing-bolt back removed the cartridge case and is thrown out of the design of the gun. And here miracles begin. The bolt enters into the grip and further moves with it, as a result of this the housing-bolt-barrel group suddenly loses speed due to the increased moving total mass. After reaching its extreme position, under the action of the return spring, everything returns to its place, simultaneously picking up a new cartridge from the store. It is precisely for such decisions and pride appears domestic gunsmiths.

The gun itself turned out to be relatively heavy - 850 grams without taking into account the cartridges. 24 things are put in cartridges in the store, that is, the weight of the weapon ready for use is slightly less than 1,1 kilograms. The length of the gun is 195 millimeters with a barrel length of 125 millimeters. On the right and left sides of the weapon, the fuse / fire switch is located on the casing-shutter. Automatic fire is carried out with a cut-off of the cartridge 3, that is, all the 24 cartridge go for 8 short bursts.

Unfortunately, it was not possible to personally get acquainted with the weapon, it was only possible to see how the other person controlled him. And you know, impressed. Particularly impressed by the fact that three shots merge into one and at the same time the weapon itself in the hands of the shooter remains almost motionless. The pistol did not receive a spread, as noted earlier, the reasons for this are only in the cartridge, which does not reach the extra characteristics even in such a perfect weapon and even in a company with two more cartridges. But, in my opinion, not to continue the further development of these weapons would be just a crime. In the end, there are sabotage bullets, there is foreign experience on similar ammunition, there are examples of use, and very good ones. In general, I really hope that this sample is not completely buried, and somewhere, after all, people are engaged in its resuscitation.

Gun OZ-23 Dart - do not dare to bury!
Author:
Photos used:
stechkin.info
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  1. the47th
    the47th 22 March 2013 08: 06
    +5
    The design is undoubtedly interesting, but, as I think, when replacing the ammunition with a more powerful one, it will no longer justify itself, primarily because of the mass, for example, the OTs-33, which has a similar design, weighs 1150 g, which is a lot. The advantages of this solution are the accuracy of automatic fire, but alas, automatic pistols are inferior in small-sized software, and therefore no one has developed such pistols since the mid-90s.
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 22 March 2013 08: 11
    +1
    Thanks, +. The question arose: why not try to adapt a similar design for a slightly more powerful cartridge? It is clear that such characteristics as with native ammunition are unlikely to be achieved, but the result, I think, will be good. The gun is very pretty.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 22 March 2013 12: 31
      +2
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Thanks, +. The question arose: why not try to adapt a similar design for a slightly more powerful cartridge? It is clear that such characteristics as with native ammunition are unlikely to be achieved, but the result, I think, will be good. The gun is very pretty.


      Let me disagree with you and oppose you. More powerful ammunition unacceptably heavier the design of the gun and unacceptably increase its dimensions. It is also not a fact that the automation that reliably works with a 5,45x18 cartridge and provides low return will show acceptable results with a more powerful cartridge.
      1. scrabler
        22 March 2013 13: 41
        +4
        And if the PP under the sabot? Let it be 3 kilo, but is it really a fee for high accuracy? winked Yes, and in a pistol such cartridges could be used, as foreign experience has shown, when firing, their recoil is much less.
        1. avt
          avt 22 March 2013 13: 58
          +2
          Quote: scrabler
          And if the PP under the sub-caliber bullet?

          It is of course the same and from an engineering point of view, you can achieve the desired result. But from a position of cost - efficiency request ? I don’t know, it’ll come out a little expensive anyway.
          1. Andrey77
            Andrey77 22 March 2013 14: 04
            +3
            There is a good American pistol cartridge .45 ACP, or in our - 11,43 × 23. Tested by dozens of wars. A production license is not required. No, you have to invent your own bike.
            1. Bosk
              Bosk 23 March 2013 00: 00
              +2
              This is not a cartridge .. but a torpedo, if hit even by a non-fatal client, it is guaranteed to be turned off, and if the bullet is half-shell ... full shoook-s.
          2. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 22 March 2013 14: 46
            +2
            Quote: avt
            But from a position of cost - efficiency? I don’t know, it’ll come out a little expensive anyway.

            How expensive is it? Especially when you consider that this cartridge is not for post-shootings, but for special forces.
            1. avt
              avt 22 March 2013 17: 10
              +4
              Quote: Vladimirets
              How expensive is it? Especially when you consider that this cartridge is not for post-shootings, but for special forces.
              I understand that all the best for children. But I had a chance to communicate with one pensioner from 9ki, so he didn’t really speak about 5,45x18 request and from weapons as it preferred PM and Stechkin. By the way, and Vector, Gyurza, which is also 9x21 and Heather under it. Somehow they like bigger guns. And about "a little expensive", so I meant the creation of a subcaliber bullet. If for a large caliber, then yes, it seems to make sense, for a smooth bore too. But for 5mm request Well, I don’t know ......... is it worth bothering?
      2. Andrey77
        Andrey77 22 March 2013 13: 49
        0
        Moreover, better samples are presented on the world market ... Vladimir, add one more opponent.
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 22 March 2013 13: 56
        +1
        Quote: Hudo
        Let me disagree with you and oppose you.

        Then I, with your permission, will try to object to you. wink
        Quote: Hudo
        More powerful ammunition unacceptably heavier the design of the gun and unacceptably increase its dimensions.

        More powerful ammunition does not mean that it will be .44 Mag. The caliber can only be a little more, and this will have an absolutely uncritical effect on the dimensions and weight.

        Quote: Hudo
        It is also not a fact that the automation that reliably works with a 5,45x18 cartridge and provides low return will show acceptable results with a more powerful cartridge.

        Of course not a fact, but it’s probably worth a try.
        1. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 22 March 2013 13: 59
          +3
          For example 7,62X25 (TT, PPSh, PPS, etc.)
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 22 March 2013 14: 50
            +1
            Quote: Black Colonel
            For example 7,62X25

            By the way, as an option.
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 23 March 2013 00: 50
              +2
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Quote: Black Colonel
              For example 7,62X25

              By the way, as an option.


              Under the cartridge 7,62x25, it is more expedient to design a pistol, which is called from scratch, without a doubt taking into account both existing developments and foreign experience (IMHO) during the design work
              Threat. and the cartridge 7,62x25 revealed its capabilities, to put it mildly, far from completely.
              1. scrabler
                23 March 2013 01: 05
                +2
                You are far from alone in the thought that the 7,62x25 is an excellent ammunition with very high potential. It is necessary to expand the nomenclature, sub-caliber bullet, expansive, heavy subsonic, I think it is not necessary, not the most effective cartridge will turn out. Well, the weapons for this cartridge need modern naturally.
                1. Hudo
                  Hudo 23 March 2013 01: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: scrabler
                  You are far from alone in the thought that the 7,62x25 is an excellent ammunition with very high potential. It is necessary to expand the nomenclature, sub-caliber bullet, expansive, heavy subsonic, I think it is not necessary, not the most effective cartridge will turn out. Well, the weapons for this cartridge need modern naturally.


                  In my opinion, it would be interesting to "conjure" not only with a bullet, but also with a powder charge (composition of powder, its granulometry) and with a primer (ignition rate). The available reserve in this cartridge is simply colossal.
                  1. anomalocaris
                    anomalocaris 23 March 2013 06: 59
                    +1
                    Played a bit. As a result, received ammunition 25% more powerful. True with a very high maximum pressure. Our and the Yugoslavs played. It is practically not suitable for firing pistols. I know only one sample for this cartridge.
          2. wasjasibirjac
            wasjasibirjac 23 March 2013 15: 46
            +2
            under 7,62 * 25 the Berdysh pistol was made by the same collective. Of particular interest is its multi-caliber, because the gun was designed for cartridges 7,62 * 25, 9 * 18 and 9 * 19mm.
        2. Hudo
          Hudo 23 March 2013 00: 36
          +3
          [quote = Hudo] It’s also not a fact that the automatics that work reliably with a 5,45x18 cartridge and provide low returns will show acceptable results with a more powerful cartridge. [/ quote]
          Of course not a fact, but probably worth a try. [/ Quote]
          _________________________

          I will politely note that in order to fence a garden, it is first of all necessary to clearly determine what niche in the weapons system of special forces (by the way, it’s just useless). And, of course, it is advisable to carry out design work in this direction. As a result of these developments, invaluable design experience will be added.
    2. Abrascha
      Abrascha April 30 2018 00: 42
      0
      Yes, like there was such an option under the PM cartridge "Pernach" called
  3. mark1
    mark1 22 March 2013 08: 25
    +1
    The gun is good, it is necessary to modify the cartridge. An increase in the initial velocity of a bullet of percent by 50 -70 (while maintaining the dimensions of the cartridge) - and you get a wonderful meat grinder
  4. Fox
    Fox 22 March 2013 08: 53
    +4
    the cartridge is interesting ... I had a PSM time sheet. and you won’t find any cartridges in the whole management. the comrade from Chechnya came and said that they were lying with Czechs in zinc. times with PSM perforated, but he left.
    1. Akim
      Akim 22 March 2013 09: 18
      +4
      Quote: Fox
      and about penetration and defeat, there was a case: one robber 5 times with PSM was perforated, but he left.

      I saw how PSM holes in the target in the form of a car door. And the stopping action netset agrees. Infrastructure Minister Kirpa shot himself from PSM. A small inertial blow from a bullet allowed him to fire 2 shots in the head, which gave reporters a reason to shout about the murder.
      1. mark1
        mark1 22 March 2013 10: 05
        +1
        He just didn’t hit the brain. But seriously - a small stopping effect is compensated by the number of hits (in the case of Pernach)
        1. rubber_duck
          rubber_duck 22 March 2013 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: mark1
          small stopping effect is compensated by the number of hits

          Well, this is only if you hit several times. And the cases are different, and one hit happens much more often than several. Are you ready to bet your own life on this roulette?
          1. mark1
            mark1 22 March 2013 13: 31
            0
            Cases, of course, are different, and you can try to sack the shotgun point blank from the shotgun, and then take a misfire ... But in theory, three bullets fired in 0,1 seconds will fall into approximately one place (at least as the designer conceived)
            1. rubber_duck
              rubber_duck 24 March 2013 15: 52
              0
              Quote: mark1
              it’s possible to try to buzz with a shotgun at point blank range, and then take a misfire ... But in theory, three bullets fired in 0,1 seconds will fall into approximately one place (at least as the designer intended)

              The designer couldn't "conceive" anything like that. He can only guarantee that those three bullets in 0,1 seconds will be fired from the pistol. One small question, no offense, OK? Do you rate the effectiveness of shooting in computer games? Or a "practical shooting" competition? Why are you "dancing" from the center of the target? The difference between ammunition with a high stopping effect and ammunition, it is that a bullet (striking element) with a large AP, even hitting the edge of the target, with a high probability, this target will render it incapacitated. Here we have to hope that as many as three high-speed small-caliber bullets will hit the target.
        2. wasjasibirjac
          wasjasibirjac 23 March 2013 15: 48
          0
          so Pernach under Makarov’s cartridge, and here - Dart
          1. mark1
            mark1 24 March 2013 10: 04
            0
            I'm sorry, of course Dartik. Slip of the pen.
  5. Castor oil
    Castor oil 22 March 2013 08: 55
    +2
    Such an 7,62x25 would be interesting to use for armor protection ...
    1. Sergey ippon
      Sergey ippon April 30 2018 21: 26
      0
      what to apply, not to apply
      deuce holds, triple guaranteed.
  6. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 22 March 2013 09: 22
    +5
    1. The question of the total mass of the gun can be tried to be solved by using composite materials or light alloys based on titanium, but this, in turn, raises the question for technologists - is it possible to achieve high precision casting of massive parts (shutter, frame ...). In this case, leave the barrel and springs steel (V. and B.). How high will the cost of the gun be when implementing the above technological problems in the case of production: pilot batch, mass production. In other words, will this make sense.
    2. Patron. What tasks (combat, police, civilian) can be solved with such ammunition, if the energy of the bullet is "119 and 129 Joules"? The stopping effect is low. Penetrating action .... Redesigning a cartridge - reworking the entire system.
    3. The gun is very nice, engineering solutions are beautiful. We come to the question of demand in the form in which it was created. Colleagues, kill me, but it seems to me that he will not be in demand with us in principle in connection with the peculiarities of our legislation and the areas of tasks solved by law enforcement agencies.
    1. mark1
      mark1 22 March 2013 14: 55
      +2
      Point 3 I completely agree with you, I put +
  7. avt
    avt 22 March 2013 09: 28
    +1
    The trunk is really beautifully made! good And the cartridge is definitely not for him, here the author said everything correctly. No wonder that Pernach appeared. +
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 22 March 2013 09: 58
      +2
      Quote: avt
      No wonder Pernach appeared

      Pernach appeared more likely to replace APS. And Dart was created to fight against protected goals.
  8. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 22 March 2013 09: 55
    +2
    Who dealt with OTs-33 (Pernach)? Please review "in the studio" ...
  9. bazilio
    bazilio 22 March 2013 10: 01
    +2
    I agree with the author, the structure cannot be "pushed under the cloth". A new cartridge is definitely needed to improve efficiency.
    For such a trunk, specials are needed. units is the main target audience
  10. marshes
    marshes 22 March 2013 10: 05
    +4
    Well, a small caliber for PP will go, MP-7, but as a personal weapon it is better to have a caliber of 9mm or higher, if not a general. smile
  11. mark1
    mark1 22 March 2013 10: 13
    +1
    About 60 years ago (I'm afraid to lie) a pistol "Lerker" was created - caliber 6,35 "Browning", 20-30 rounds 1200 rpm. So it was banned for use! Well, it turned out to be very effective.
    1. Akim
      Akim 22 March 2013 10: 19
      +1
      The 6,35X16 cartridge is a poor cartridge. Here it is really needed only for civilian weapons.
      1. mark1
        mark1 22 March 2013 11: 51
        +1
        And there was also a wonderful VP-70 pistol. This is no longer a primitive "Lerker", the 9mm "Par" cartridge. But he did not receive distribution, I wonder what are the reasons?
        1. Mikhado
          Mikhado 22 March 2013 14: 45
          +3
          Quote: mark1
          And there was also a wonderful VP-70 pistol. This is no longer a primitive "Lerker", the 9mm "Par" cartridge. But he did not receive distribution, I wonder what are the reasons?

          The same as with APS - a very specific niche. And most importantly, how simply he lost the pistol to the APS - ours, under a low-power cartridge with a free bolt, and the one under Para, under which it was supposed to make semi-free structures.
          But the machine (fau-pe) was beautiful, futuristic - you can’t say anything here.
          1. mark1
            mark1 22 March 2013 14: 59
            +2
            Yes, everything is not quite simple here. the shutter is free, while the mass for such a cartridge is small, and the rate of fire is fantastic - more than 2000 rpm. In all respects, an ideal machine. In the hands would turn it
            1. Mikhado
              Mikhado 22 March 2013 17: 35
              +1
              There are no ideals at all. Aesthetically - good, but nothing more.
              Not just because of its pr-in turned as much in 1989 - the Germans are pragmatic people.
              In fact, it was an ultra-compact PP, and shooting in bursts only with a butt-holster, a mode switch and the mechanism itself with a cut-off only on it, unlike the APS.
              Pay attention to the PP-2000 - this one is real and adequate to the current conditions.
              1. mark1
                mark1 22 March 2013 17: 51
                +1
                It’s like I’m not idealizing VP70, I don’t know anything about it, except for what is written in the manual, I’m not even familiar with operating experience on paper. But I really like the given characteristics, and shooting with bursts without a butt, it seems to me, is unpromising from any pistol (well, if only to frighten the enemy). The 2000 PC is a good machine, but it’s already a really small submachine gun and the range of tasks for it and the VP70 is a bit different.
    2. Mitzhel
      Mitzhel 23 March 2013 02: 01
      +2
      Lerker was banned because it was not a gun, but a real submachine gun with a fire translator. He shot from an open shutter, so it was difficult to use it for self-defense, but for a gangster or the killer laughing point blank to riddle the victim in one burst and topple ...
      1. mark1
        mark1 23 March 2013 08: 39
        +1
        So I say that it is very effective for special operations (let's call it that)
        Covert advance, massive fire and retreat. And for self-defense, pistols like PSM, "Browning Baby" (or something like that), Walter, etc. caliber 6,35 -7,65 mm are probably good (well, unless of course self-defense has not turned into a struggle for survival)
  12. Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 22 March 2013 14: 10
    +1
    Well, figs with it with the removal of powder gases in automatic machines, can a free shutter and apply such a scheme to reduce return / increase accuracy? There will be Abakan, only without all kinds of cables and blocks.
    1. Mikhado
      Mikhado 22 March 2013 14: 47
      +1
      Well, figs with it with the removal of powder gases in automatic machines, can a free shutter and apply such a scheme to reduce return / increase accuracy? There will be Abakan, only without all kinds of cables and blocks.

      In any long barrel, a movable barrel is avoided - backlash, which means a drop in accuracy even at medium distances is guaranteed.
      This, of course, is not about machine guns like MG and KPVT - but there the dispersion is not so sensitive, but it reduces the reliability of the automation clearly.
      1. Andrey77
        Andrey77 22 March 2013 21: 27
        +1
        Long barrel travel - buy the MTs 21-12 hunting rifle. My first hunting weapon. Soon, learn to hit the bolt with the boot on the slide frame, just like in AK. Mikhado, this is not for you.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 24 March 2013 20: 19
        +3
        Quote: Mikhado
        In any long barrel, a movable barrel is avoided - backlash, which means a drop in accuracy even at medium distances is guaranteed.

        At the "Abokan" competition at least two submachine guns were presented (TKB-0146-Stechkina, AN-94-Nikonova), in which not only the trunks ran, but also the frame with automatic equipment.

        And at the shortened machine gun contest, where he won the AKSU (Kalashnikov), Stechkin was presented with a machine with a long barrel (TKB-0116). And as they say in the comments, the victory of Kalashnikov was not obvious (that is, you can bet whose machine was the best)
    2. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 23 March 2013 07: 32
      +1
      In a long-barreled weapon under a powerful cartridge, a free-bolt circuit is practically not applicable. It’s just that the bolt begins to move as soon as the bullet leaves the sleeve and moves a considerable distance even before the pressure drops in the barrel, which unambiguously leads to a rupture of the sleeve.
      Although similar systems existed and were even in service, for example, a 1930 Brixia machine gun.
  13. Bosk
    Bosk 23 March 2013 00: 03
    +1
    By the way, maybe it’s not the topic ... but it seems like they made a decision to sell old weapons from warehouses, though only after pouring trunks and other modernizations.
  14. Mitzhel
    Mitzhel 23 March 2013 00: 17
    +6
    In general, I really hope that this sample was not completely buried, and somewhere, after all, people are engaged in its resuscitation.


    While some hope others quietly produce and sell. True, they have a civilian weapons market and normal laws ...
    For example, the same serial Kel-Tec PMR-30. It weighs two times less than the OTs-23, the .22 WMR cartridge is 2-3 times more powerful than 5.45x18 and the 30 rounds in the store. In addition to civilian versions of the gun, there are prototypes with a fire translator ...



    1. scrabler
      23 March 2013 00: 58
      0
      I did not know about this sample, Thank you very much good I add to the queue for articles, like other devices, mentioned in the comments wink
    2. mark1
      mark1 23 March 2013 08: 44
      +1
      Great! I just don't understand why a civilian version is needed, well, if only "exs" are carried out in various financial institutions. And, of course, I like the machine.
  15. LAO
    LAO 23 March 2013 00: 23
    +1
    The design is certainly interesting, but still it turned out "not in the city of Ivan, not in the village of Selevan"
    For a pistol it’s hard, for PP it’s difficult.
    Movable barrel for recoil compensation - nonsense.
    It was possible to apply automation with a long stroke of the barrel.
    Moving barrel is always bad !!! Everyone "leaves" him.
    1. scrabler
      23 March 2013 00: 56
      +4
      Well, about the weight here you can argue, it is quite normal weight of the weapon, provided that it does not have plastic. Submachine guns are more complicated.
      Braking the bolt by increasing the mass of moving parts with the weight of the barrel is not nonsense, it is an ingenious solution, provided that a very high rate of fire was required with a large working weapon life. The movable barrel is not bad in the pistols, the distances are not the same. In addition, the absolute majority of modern pistols are made with a moving barrel, specifically automation with a short stroke, and no one is going to leave it yet.
    2. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 23 March 2013 07: 52
      +4
      Nobody goes away from anything. Moving barrel systems have been, are and will be. The properties of the unit depend primarily on the design and workmanship. Suffice it to recall the German MG-42.
  16. Bosk
    Bosk 23 March 2013 02: 37
    +1
    Judging by the article, this is a good target pistol, but it doesn’t lure for work.
  17. georg737577
    georg737577 23 March 2013 15: 24
    +2
    An interesting gun, no words, to the author for the article - thanks! However, I personally do not see any prospects for this machine. If you want to go, do not look back - take as a tool 1911 or H&K USP Compact. And you will be happy and retired (live) ...
  18. dustycat
    dustycat 25 June 2013 23: 06
    +1
    Great machine.
    Dali was shot from him in 1983 in the rifle section at the Kostroma police school.
    In the experimental gunsmith, he changed the firing pin, so he let him shoot. (It is useful to be friends with gunsmiths).

    The return is tender. Almost like an arbitrary. On the machine.
    Single just fluff and clang and all.
    The descent is soft, with a warning - a clear click.
    One nuance - if there was a click - either put it on the fuse (then the trigger will return to its original position) or shoot - you just shake it lightly with the bracket released or put it on the table - a single shot (at least on a single gun).

    The gun is disassembled simply, some agility is needed to assemble - the barrel with the bolt inserted in the casing does not always fall into the grooves the first time, but it’s more convenient. It was wiser to first install the barrel with the bolt, and then pull the casing (as per instructions). But then again, this is not quite convenient - at the same time, you can accidentally pull the barrel with the bolt out of place and start over.
    What should create difficulties when assembling in transport when driving (plus a couple of small details).

    The cartridges enter the sea (against 8 in the MC).

    With a single shot.
    If the hole in the target sheet itself is neat, then in the 3mm plywood sheet under the target sheet just a hole is broken - the thumb fits. The stopping effect should be hefty (or bloody for sure).

    Automatic shooting.
    Three shots go as one (this is correctly noted by the author, the rate of fire is frantic).
    Up does not recline at all. Well balanced.
    The sound is not strong. Makarov is heavily bubbling (as it seemed to me in a closed dash).
    Bullets in line lie very heaped - literally 2 kopecks per 25 meters.
    So it may make sense in the idea of ​​breaking through body armor with a series of bullets. Although small.

    About the rebound.
    When you hit the wall - the bullet literally scatters to pieces.
    In my opinion, you should not be afraid of a rebound, because the fragments got stuck in the target sheet without leaving any traces in the plywood. Is that the steel core in a 3mm plywood sheet stuck without breaking through, but in the direction of the arrow does not fly off like a lead weighted from pneumatics.
    At the same time, plastering from the wall broke out stronger and deeper than Makarov - from the palm of his hand.
    And the ammunition is really like a child’s. Straight toy. Maybe it made sense to make it a couple mm longer.
    At the same time, in a steel 8mm reflector at an angle of 45, he left quite a good mark (but Makarovsky with no core).
    So at least 118J and ridiculous power - but the thing attached to the small spot of contact is strong.

    And therefore, in my opinion, the main mode of firing from this "toy" is automatic - 3x118 = 354 J - and this is already force. If it does not kill it, it will create a painful shock - it will knock all one off its feet, and it will let blood flow ...
    Yes, and then pick out all this from the body and not forget anything ... Bullets then fly apart.
  19. Doznanied
    Doznanied 2 August 2013 10: 21
    +1
    One Interior Ministry officer told me that during a friendly visit of police officers from the United States, there were, so to speak, entertaining shooting from pistols APS, PM, PSM, etc. "enemy" pistols on ours and their bulletproof vests are not of a high class of protection. So, in his words, the 5.45 pistol cartridge, fired from PSM, showed one of the best results in penetration.
  20. bondxnumx
    bondxnumx April 3 2018 00: 37
    0
    Maybe nanotechnology will help if someone does it, otherwise everyone shouted at every corner that science is not asleep, so they would be engaged in development, I’m sure that with the help of science it’s possible to make new powder and conjure a bullet! That's just the return issue, but it is possible to solve it or make a jet bullet! The designers did their job perfectly well at that time!
  21. ser6119
    ser6119 April 7 2018 14: 37
    0
    Informatively, a pity for the further development of neither a cartridge nor a pistol followed sad
  22. Oleg 53
    Oleg 53 April 7 2018 18: 51
    0
    The T T pistol can shoot with any cartridge and this is confirmed by the practice of 7.62x25, 9x19, 9x18, 22LR, and nevertheless it is not used although they are still fully stocked. It’s easier for him to increase the frame for the magazine by 15-20 rounds. Stechkin did a small party on the 9x19 cartridge and there are OTs27 multi-caliber ...
  23. SASHA OLD
    SASHA OLD April 9 2018 11: 00
    0
    I once read about OTs-23, the idea can be developed, the question is: is it necessary ..?
    interesting topic, thanks to the author