Military Review

Sergei Shoigu does not want to stand behind the price. Minister of Defense asks to save him from money issues

107

Yesterday, at a plenary meeting of the military-industrial conference held in the government, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu emotionally asked his department to be set free from questions of pricing and repair of armaments. Present at the conference, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev did not respond to the request, at least publicly, and Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin after the event promised to “decide on the department”, which will oversee the price of weapon. The details from the White House - correspondent "Kommersant" Ivan Safronov.


On the conference agenda, Sergei Shoigu was listed as co-rapporteur to Mr. Rogozin. However, on the eve of the opening plan, according to "Kommersant", was revised. The Deputy Minister of Armaments, Yuri Borisov, was to speak from the Ministry of Defense. But immediately after his speech, where he spoke about the decline in the quality of weapons and equipment supplied to the troops, as well as the fact that the scientific and technical reserve had been practically exhausted in the defense complex, Mr. Shoigu approached the microphone.

“I cannot be silent,” the minister said, and after an almost theatrical pause, he continued: “It’s important to solve two important tasks in the Ministry of Defense. Free us from functions that are not intrinsic to us — by entering into life cycle contracts, by taking over the repair of all the equipment in the arsenal. Take away all 300 factories, 37 thousand. locksmiths and turners, take along with the repair and along with the money! " He looked around the audience, trying to find understanding among the conference participants, but he saw only the tense faces of the defense industry representatives. “When we say“ assume the function of pricing, ”then who should do this?!” The minister continued with pressure. “We have the Ministry of Economy, the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, and other structures. You tell us:“ Do pricing. ”But Say this, realizing that we are not in a position to do this qualitatively, but in all the newspapers you say: "Here they are delaying". However, General Shoigu noted, when the Defense Ministry “doesn’t delay,” neither the military nor industrial enterprises are satisfied with the price. “Give us the weapons on which we will fight,” Sergey Shoigu asked. “The weapons on which we will teach our young officers to fight in the future.”

Emotions of the Minister sources "Kommersant" in the military department explained at once by several circumstances. The first is that Mr. Shoigu’s desire to withdraw from the subordination of the structures of Oboronservis OJSC (in particular, Aviaremont OJSC and Remvooruzhenie OJSC) enterprises to repair weapons and military equipment as soon as possible. “After becoming acquainted with the internal document flow of the holding, questions arose not only about inflated prices for repairs, but also about the technical condition of the enterprises themselves,” says the Kommersant source in the Defense Ministry. “It will take not only a lot of time to restore them, but also money, which can be spent much more rationally. " According to him, the fate of a number of military repair enterprises has already been decided de facto: by the beginning of 2014, the military plans to transfer to the United Aircraft Building Corporation about seven aircraft repair facilities, and the Uralvagonzavod corporation - six armored plants. “We expected this question to be closed by the end of the year, but due to bureaucratic procedures, this will not be completely possible,” the source told Kommersant, adding that the negotiation process is rather difficult.

The second circumstance, according to "Kommersant", was related to the results of the adjustment of the state defense order, conducted after the arrival of Sergei Shoigu in the Ministry of Defense. “As a result, it became clear that disputes over prices with the defense industry disrupt all the deliveries of products recorded in the state armament program,” the Kommersant source told the Defense Ministry. “At the first closed meeting on armaments, the minister suggested removing the military from pricing the product. he is trying to put this into practice. "

The first steps will be made soon. According to "Kommersant", most of the powers will deprive the Department of the Ministry of Defense for the pricing of military products. He is headed by Alla Yashina, a colleague of the ex-minister of Anatoly Serdyukov (they are familiar with the work in the tax authorities). Largely because of its tough stance on the price of products, the military and industry in 2011 and 2012 entered into contracts at the very last moment. And the largest - and with the participation of President Vladimir Putin (see "Kommersant" from 28 May 2012). “It is assumed that the department will work only as a consulting body that does not have the right to influence the negotiations,” the source told Kommersant. . Under Anatolia Serdyukov, this was considered impossible: the creation of military repair plants, working on outsourcing, and price wars with defense enterprises, followed by victory in them, he equated to personal achievements.

In response, Mr. Rogozin said (after the end of the conference) that "if the Ministry of Defense repels the topic of pricing from itself and does not want to do this, then it should repel those funds that are in the accounts of the Ministry of Defense." The Vice Prime Minister expects that by July the government will adopt a decree on the new pricing system and decide on the department that will oversee it.
Originator:
http://www.kommersant.ru
107 comments
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  1. Vadivak
    Vadivak 21 March 2013 12: 05 New
    +6
    You are telling us: "Get involved in pricing." But say this, understanding that we are not able to do this qualitatively, ""

    Yaroslavna's lament or military reform in action
    1. bask
      bask 21 March 2013 12: 35 New
      21
      In Soviet times, there was a streamlined system, technology for repairing equipment and pricing., For armament.
      THE SOVIET SYSTEM BROKEN ,,, a big mind is not necessary under EBN ,,, and a new brain is not enough to rebuild.
      This is not a state .. means to tear. Here you have to move your brains !!!!!
      It is NECESSARY to REVIVE AT THE MODERN LEVEL, and in modern realities the SOVIET SYSTEM.
      1. queen
        queen 21 March 2013 13: 12 New
        +6
        Quote: bask
        It is NECESSARY to REVIVE AT THE MODERN LEVEL, and in modern realities the SOVIET SYSTEM.

        On the basis of solid corruption and bribery with kickbacks? I don’t think that they will give such a pie ((((but in your words the truth +
      2. common man
        common man 21 March 2013 13: 37 New
        +6
        I wonder how you want to revive socialism under capitalism? We already went through this in the late 80s. When private cooperatives purchased from state. state enterprises prices and then sold to other state. enterprises at the so-called market (2-3 times higher) prices.
        1. Ustas
          Ustas 21 March 2013 14: 02 New
          +4
          Quote: man in the street
          I wonder how you want to revive socialism under capitalism? We already went through this in the late 80s. When private cooperatives purchased from state. state enterprises prices and then sold to other state. enterprises at the so-called market (2-3 times higher) prices.

          There is no need to engage in big speculation.
          In principle, the old arms procurement system can be revived if the planning system is revived with new elements emerging from the realities of the modern economy. But before that, it is worth nationalizing all resource-mining and energy-producing enterprises by installing on their products uniform domestic state prices.
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach 21 March 2013 16: 44 New
            0
            domestic government prices.

            But wasn't Shoigu talking about this when he mentioned the Ministry of Economy, the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and other structures.
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 21 March 2013 14: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: man in the street
          when private cooperatives purchased from state. state enterprises prices and then sold to other state. enterprises at the so-called market (2-3 times higher) prices.


          What is different now? With the difference that state. Chinese enterprises
      3. baltika-18
        baltika-18 21 March 2013 13: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: bask
        It is NECESSARY to REVIVE AT THE MODERN LEVEL, and in modern realities the SOVIET SYSTEM.

        CORRECTLY BASK, AND NOT ONLY IN DEFENSE, BUT AT ALL IN THE STATE.
      4. Vadivak
        Vadivak 21 March 2013 14: 06 New
        +5
        Quote: bask
        REQUIRED TO REVIVE AT A MODERN LEVEL,


        Unfortunately, this is not possible, the system can work only with that system, and it won’t return, they won’t give it, how did they seize Cyprus and who in the USSR had interests there?
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 21 March 2013 17: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: Vadivak
          but he won’t be returned, they won’t give, how did they seize Cyprus, and who in the USSR had interests there?

          All right
          But at least tear me into a hundred parts, for some reason I’m sure that there will be a return.
          And we will see it.
          This is more than intuition.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 21 March 2013 19: 43 New
            +3
            Socialism in one country is currently impossible, full dominance in the world is needed because this system makes people too demanding of the individual as opposed to capitalism, plus the economic prerequisites must ripen through state capitalism, which Russia has been driven into this free liberal market and bourgeois democracy capitalism is categorically unacceptable, even based on the geography and climate of the regions. Already there are technical opportunities for planned management, comparable to market in quality. And no later than the end of this decade, planned management will significantly, several times surpass the market in all respects. And the realization that the invisible hand of the market is only strangling this market is already coming to the Russian leaders. Otherwise, the country will not have a margin of safety based on manual control and will inevitably be subject to collapse.
            There are two ways — revolutionary and evolutionary, and each has its own pros and cons

            One well-known activist of libertarianism in Russia, a direction to which I myself had belonged for a very long time and from which I had difficulty and not yet fully scrambled out, asked the question: if planning can become effective, why not lead it through the market? Why can not a certain office specializing in planning buy from all business entities the initial data necessary for planning, and then give them the same recommendations? I thought about this issue and made sure that it doesn’t work out. Too many scenarios are being examined in which each individual business entity benefits or at least hopes to benefit from hiding data available to him from the planning authority or from evading his recommendations. In all these cases, the gain is achieved at a cost disproportionate to losses in other parts of the economy. Therefore, it will be possible to realize all the advantages of a planned economy only if all means of production have a single owner. That is, planning entails socialism.

            A. Wasserman

            And the single owner is the state - state capitalism with the development of technologies and skilled workers who will become the true middle class will inevitably lead to a more equitable distribution of the final product to the socialist one.
            1. igor.borov775
              igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 21 New
              0
              Oh, how fun, but how CHINA you amused me, There are thousands of enterprises of such forms of ownership that you have never dreamed of and there is planning and tight control over monopolies, There is no annual increase in tariffs and therefore you can safely plan, And we answer for ourselves
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 22 March 2013 23: 04 New
                +1
                Quote: igor.borov775
                Oh, how fun, but how CHINA, you amused me,


                China is state capitalism, moreover typical. Socialism does not smell there.
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 21 March 2013 21: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: baltika-18
            But at least tear me into a hundred parts, for some reason I’m sure that there will be a return.


            Blessed is he who believes. Remember Nicholas rotten Soviet desk apparatus of the 80s? Stas is right too high demands on the person, ideally, again, according to Stas, state capitalism is a panacea
      5. SHOCK.
        SHOCK. 21 March 2013 14: 14 New
        +2
        I fully support. This mouse fuss is already in the liver. How much is it possible?
      6. opkozak
        opkozak 21 March 2013 14: 14 New
        +8
        Quote: bask
        This is not a state .. means to tear. Here you have to move your brains !!!!!

        Of course, Shoigu did not reach Grechko and Ustinov ...
        Imagine they declare - there is no one to count Buran and Energy with us. We don’t need to do Baikonur ...


        And the ministry did not find understanding (quote He looked around the audience, trying to find understanding among the conference participants, but saw only the tense faces of representatives of the defense industry..)

        It turns out that the GDP is strained with specialists.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 21 March 2013 15: 28 New
          +3
          Quote: opkozak
          Imagine they say - there’s no one with us to consider Buran with Energy


          The more oaks in the army, the stronger our defense, even if bankers think they do well with interest, few will find it
        2. igor.borov775
          igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 32 New
          0
          You guys that they just had a shock TAKIIIIE OPPORTUNITIES ARISED THEY EVEN BREATHING STOPPED FOR TIME TO COME INTO YOURSELF, All the way soon the intermediaries of different state offices will work, It takes time to organize this and distribute the functions, Hurray !!! Yes, something cheers friends can not hear where they disappeared,
      7. Big
        Big lexey 21 March 2013 14: 17 New
        +5
        But what, the Soviet pricing system for military products was something fundamentally different from the current one, except for the lack of “retracement” schemes ?!
        Those same crazy prices .... For example, I saw a 1984 price tag for retrofitting a driver’s cab of a 15U128.1 aggregate (Topol chassis) with emergency escape means ....: An ordinary hammer with a wooden handle inserted into a leather loop bolted to the cabin door with 2 bolts - 82 rubles. 40 kopecks What is 82 rubles in 1984 prices? Half of the salary of an engineer or senior lieutenant - captain ....
        We must deal with kickbacks and attempts by easy and unreasonable profit on the part of "effective managers" at the state defense order, and not try to pull the Soviet system on the current model of the economy, since nothing good will come of it.
        1. Cpa
          Cpa 21 March 2013 17: 10 New
          +1
          Wearable radio station "excitement" - 368000р belay .in the base cost. A fighter broke a station or dropped it into the water, for 10 years with a company commander they will pay if little by little, and possibly in civilian life. wassat
          1. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 41 New
            0
            Here it is an intermediary in action, There are Chubais technologies that nobody really saw, but they are just the price,
      8. Odysseus
        Odysseus 21 March 2013 14: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: bask
        It is NECESSARY to REVIVE AT THE MODERN LEVEL, and in modern realities the SOVIET SYSTEM.

        Exactly. Only for this it is necessary to restore the planned economy and the USSR itself.
      9. танк
        танк 21 March 2013 16: 36 New
        +2
        Previously, Soviet equipment was repaired using Soviet oil and gas, but now Russian equipment needs to be repaired for taxes on oil and gas (since oil is private !!), of course, there is not enough money + corruption. I’ll use it a little, but in general it’s .There the Soviet system does not revive.
      10. SASCHAmIXEEW
        SASCHAmIXEEW 21 March 2013 17: 13 New
        +1
        Wrong people in power !!! They do not think about RUSSIA, at first they think about their wallet, and then about everything else, about the Motherland, for example ....
      11. NAPOLEON
        NAPOLEON 21 March 2013 18: 48 New
        0
        it’s not that it’s not possible; it is absurdly the Soviet system can exist in the Soviet country. The problem with the VKP is that they have remained in the USSR and want to stay there but still have accounts in Cyprus. soldier
      12. zart_arn
        zart_arn 21 March 2013 20: 46 New
        +1
        I completely agree with you, in the USSR, for all its shortcomings, well-functioning cross-controlled systems worked in all sectors.
        Kozhugetych is wrong, the Minister of Defense is the figure who should debug (re-create) the system, otherwise - "the violinist is not needed."
        This is an axiom - a hard worker and a peasant create products, a leader creates and maintains a system, and a sergeant can command on a parade ground.
      13. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 07 New
        0
        What are you saying that you’re shocked right away from the Soviet Union, Yes, these are people of a different formation, although they lived in the UNION, you have a hard system in your mind, Yes, it's never time to remember this and not write on this topic, This is a completely different management style without an intermediary, he will die the next day, This is the so-called system of liberal values, it is now an icon, Rigid rule is a sentence to the entire state system, There are no intermediaries, there is no cut, you are encroaching on the state system of government, Don’t do it again, please, you can agree to hell knows what
      14. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 22 March 2013 12: 53 New
        0
        The Army, Aviation, and Navy must receive, have, and properly operate models of military equipment!
        And the task of the Government of the Russian Federation is to provide them with appropriate weapons, to manage the state defense industry on a planned basis. And where does pricing, this is the headache of the Government.
        If the current head of the government, by profession a university teacher, does not know how to do this, he must be replaced by a person who knows how to do it.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 12 New
      0
      This is a system in action. There isn’t such in the agreements of those distant 90s, so forget
  2. strannik595
    strannik595 21 March 2013 12: 05 New
    +7
    everyone should do their own thing, I think that he is right, otherwise the Ministry of Defense will not be engaged in defense ...
  3. silver_roman
    silver_roman 21 March 2013 12: 10 New
    10
    I will support Shoigu. There are 100500 ministries in the country, and each of them pushes its responsibilities. Why in Min. defense should sit economists, managers and count all these numbers ??? Is this the essence of the Ministry of Defense?
    As the saying goes: "Our hut is on the edge, I don't know anything!" and Shoigu sees and understands this perfectly.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 21 March 2013 14: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: silver_roman
      Why in Min. defense should sit economists, managers and count all these numbers ???


      The Ministry of Defense differs from the Ministry of Emergencies in that it does not control enterprises in terms of fire control but in terms of products, who, if not military, should know how much it will cost to service the equipment, its production, soldier's uniform, barracks, all this can be solved at the level of the rear, Shoigu just walks away from the topic
      1. dmitreach
        dmitreach 21 March 2013 16: 50 New
        0
        He is trying to do his own thing - Army. He correctly said that it’s not the business of the MO to conduct soil assessment work for the pipeline. At least for the oil industry at the bottom of the sea, at least for a residential building, for officers. There are corresponding ministries for this. All Shoigu asks for is to let him concentrate on his main work.
        1. Cpa
          Cpa 21 March 2013 17: 12 New
          0
          Let him then graduate from the General Staff Academy and take care of it.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 21 March 2013 18: 24 New
            0
            In the meantime, he will study, to put Serdyukov as the acting Minister of Defense ???? you did not think WHY it was Shoigu who was put on this post? Maybe because there is no alternative! ??
            1. Cpa
              Cpa 21 March 2013 18: 52 New
              +1
              Quote: silver_roman
              WHY it was precisely Shoigu who was placed

              There may be an alternative, just Putin trusts him.
              Yes, on this site there is a candidate and quite decent and knowledgeable.
              In general, I wrote below that I think about his words.
              1. silver_roman
                silver_roman 21 March 2013 20: 59 New
                0
                and maybe not in vain trusts ??? Still, the Ministry of Emergencies works wonderfully well. and fly to Italy, extinguish fires and to Greece.
                That's just a minus for what ?? I did not understand!
                1. Cpa
                  Cpa 21 March 2013 21: 50 New
                  0
                  I do not put cons, now a plus.
                  Quote: silver_roman
                  and maybe not in vain trusts

                  Of course, it’s not in vain, just Shoigu got confused, goals weren’t commanded, and give order. The Ministry of Emergency Situations is our "soft power" didn’t spare money for her, he didn’t know such troubles. I received a platoon from XMUMX 4600R positions. Something like that.
                2. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 21 March 2013 22: 38 New
                  +1
                  Quote: silver_roman
                  Still, the Ministry of Emergencies works wonderfully well.

                  You didn’t come across glorious inspectors who require the owner of the building to measure the hydrant stream (I’m not joking) as if he is responsible for the pressure in the system and they sign a permission to add a wooden cafe to the apartment building
            2. Vadivak
              Vadivak 21 March 2013 22: 34 New
              +2
              Quote: silver_roman
              we didn’t think. WHY SHOIGU was put to this post? Maybe because there is no alternative! ??


              Or maybe all the same because he is from the team of Boris Nikolaevich?
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 21 March 2013 18: 07 New
          +2
          give the opportunity to focus on the main work

          But military planning is not the main work of the Defense Ministry? And military planning includes logistics, among other things, and rear services. Who will repair tanks - civilian outsourcing on the battlefield?
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 21 March 2013 18: 21 New
        0
        The Ministry of Defense should keep everything listed in the field of dawn, make decisions on the number of purchased equipment, maintainable, decommissioned, the number of apartments and the number of people in need of these apartments, and much more. All these reports, conclusions should be transmitted to the relevant authorities, which in turn should provide this to all the Ministry of Defense and the army as a whole. Why should the minister rack their brains on how much the tank costs, if we need 1000 of them? counted, not enough money, cut, bought 900. Some region is already weakened. and so on all types and branches of the armed forces of the Russian Federation ??? then there will be no defense, but the devil knows what. It is managers who must skillfully allocate funds to meet the needs of the army. This is if we talk about the priority of the current GPV. Just read about the tasks of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. There seems to be no points to sit and count millions and billions!
  4. 120352
    120352 21 March 2013 12: 12 New
    10
    If the state is going to have an army, it should provide it with the opportunity to deal with defense issues, rather than turning it into accounting. There was already one merchant in the post of Minister of Defense, so he put the whole army under the hammer, put his money in his pocket, neatly, and set up the women. Goat!
    1. vilenich
      vilenich 21 March 2013 13: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: 120352
      If the state is going to have an army, it should provide it with the opportunity to deal with defense issues,

      Let the General Staff deal with defense capability, but the Ministry of Defense just has the cards in its hands for pricing and other economic and political issues.
  5. olegyurjewitch
    olegyurjewitch 21 March 2013 12: 12 New
    +2
    Does the Reformed "wisdom" of Serdyukov begin to get out?
  6. philippov
    philippov 21 March 2013 12: 20 New
    +5
    Shoigu is inclined to the option in which the function of determining the price will be closed to the Ministry of Industry


    My opinion is that Shoigu is right, because pricing involves very large corruption risks, which was very much manifested under Serdyukov.
  7. zanoza
    zanoza 21 March 2013 12: 24 New
    +6
    What can I say. Everything is like in a theater, our place in the “gallery” will be decided by the “director”, who was absent from the “production”, well, and the main “hero”, to a greater extent, questioned those sitting on the podium and in the front rows, in front of the stage. And the opinion of the "gallery", be it "Bravo!" or "Oooo ...", will be taken into account and will not be taken into account. Everything inside the "theater troupe" will be decided. And all that remains for us is inside the “kitchen” to discuss all this action and contemplate further events. request IMHO
    1. Heccrbq
      Heccrbq 21 March 2013 13: 22 New
      +1
      A splinter, I applaud you standing !!!! But someone’s Earring is denying money, is there any thought?
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 21 March 2013 13: 55 New
        +5
        Quote: Heccrbq
        Anyone’s earring is denying money, is there any thought?

        Not from money ........
        From Tolyanova’s inheritance, these offices are like a knife across the throat., There are all the schemes in sight.
        These offices are essentially intermediaries ........
        Why are they? ........
        Directly more profitable and safer ....
        He probably wants money, but there is no fate for Tolyanova.
      2. zanoza
        zanoza 21 March 2013 14: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: Heccrbq
        But someone’s Earring denies money, have thoughts?


        Simplified. It is easier to give orders and wait for a report on its implementation than to rake the "agne stables" of the Moscow region.
        Without dirtying, they can not be cleaned, but after that you can not "wash"

        Although, leading the Ministry of Emergencies, S.K. Shoigu solved not only managerial issues and saved people, but also solved financial and economic support issues, purchased machinery and equipment, that is, there is experience. BUT! in MO, see so everything launched and the volumes of financial and economic problems are so great that S.K. decided to transfer this "on the wrong shoulders" and sacrifice this part of the financing of the Moscow Region. IMHO.
  8. Tartary
    Tartary 21 March 2013 12: 27 New
    +2
    It's a shame that at the time when the course was set for the renewal of armaments, the brake comes in the form of a reorganization of the system of financial relations.
    What will they spend time on, which is perhaps already insufficient?

    Perhaps the enemy is already at the gate, will soon knock with a club, and then there’s a mess who and by what rules will deliver arrows, spears and boiling tar to the walls of the fortress ...
    1. bddrus
      bddrus 21 March 2013 12: 38 New
      +1
      eternal reform b ... t !!
  9. dmitry46
    dmitry46 21 March 2013 12: 28 New
    +2
    That's right! The military should be able to fight on new modern technology without thinking about how much it costs and what the price is made of. Let the min. finance consider.

    Interestingly, Serdyukov did not have a heart attack from such speeches by Shoigu wink
  10. amp
    amp 21 March 2013 12: 28 New
    +9
    Shoigu should be appointed prime minister, and the bear cub Dimu should be sent as ambassador to Tanzania.
  11. Andrey57
    Andrey57 21 March 2013 12: 29 New
    0
    Yeah, burping from the stool and his women will be felt for a long time and affect the army ... no
  12. bddrus
    bddrus 21 March 2013 12: 32 New
    +3
    Here Rogozin is logical - you don’t want to deal with prices efficiently, then you cannot steer the budget efficiently
  13. bddrus
    bddrus 21 March 2013 12: 35 New
    +3
    And PR Shoigu - suggests a successor 2 "operation", so what - the amers staged a show with a black president, ours can also promote a candidate from a national minority. пи democracies
  14. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 21 March 2013 12: 36 New
    +5
    The whole military-industrial complex and all its allies should be a madhouse, only state-owned enterprises, and then there will be no problems with pricing, everything will be under control. Now in any enterprise there are a lot of intermediaries, due to which prices are increasing at times. Cutting budget money is what it's called, not a state defense order. I am amazed at how impudently and freely the speculators feel even in the defense industry, what is being done in other areas.
    1. common man
      common man 21 March 2013 13: 44 New
      +2
      Then the whole industry must be nationalized, because any enterprise depends on someone, and this is unrealistic.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 21 March 2013 14: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: vladsolo56
      the entire military-industrial complex and all its allies should be only state-owned enterprises


      Late to drink Borjomi, now the main thing is that Cyprus resist
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 21 March 2013 14: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        Late to drink Borjomi, now the main thing is that Cyprus resist

        What does Cyprus have to do with it?
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 21 March 2013 15: 00 New
          +3
          Quote: baltika-18
          What does Cyprus have to do with it?


          Have you not heard where the money is spinning? Vladimir put forward a healthy thesis that defense industry enterprises should be state-owned, and only Cyprus with its financial problems seems to be interested in our state (government), but privatization of the stabilization fund, the last unshared common fund, is still ahead.
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 21 March 2013 17: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Vadivak
            only Cyprus with its financial problems seems to be of interest to our state (government), but privatization of the stabilization fund, the last lone common fund, is still ahead

            And we can only scratch our turnips, saying:
            "Where to go to the poor peasant?"
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 21 March 2013 17: 35 New
              +2
              Quote: baltika-18
              And we can only scratch our turnips, saying:

              When everyone runs away, we’ll probably stay, they’re not taught languages, children in German schools like Putin weren’t taught
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 21 March 2013 17: 45 New
                +1
                Quote: Vadivak
                When everyone runs away, we’ll probably stay, they’re not taught languages, children in German schools like Putin weren’t taught

                But, Vadim, we have the main thing: perseverance in comprehension of the truth.
                And most importantly, the desire to comprehend it.
                Do not be lost. hi
  15. Nayhas
    Nayhas 21 March 2013 12: 44 New
    +3
    And Rogozin hiitry "if the Ministry of Defense pushes away the topic of pricing and does not want to do it, then it should push away the funds that are in the accounts of the Ministry of Defense." And here he is completely right, how so “take plants and locksmiths”, is it not just like that, to take and transfer to some kind of holding? Just take it and give it back? Factories and equipment worth billions of rubles? And why did Shoigu decide that the army should not deal with pricing? Give to the defense industry? And what, will we buy weapons at the price that the manufacturer will say and repair their marriage at their reasonable price? Why is the question at all "on reducing the quality of weapons and equipment supplied to the troops, as well as on the fact that the scientific and technical backlog has been practically exhausted in the defense complex" Minister of Defense was silent, transferring everything to the problem of pricing? Who does he work for?
  16. Garrin
    Garrin 21 March 2013 12: 47 New
    +2
    To deal effectively with pricing issues, you need to first unravel the whole tangle of corruption chains and eliminate them all. And for this, for a long time it was necessary to connect all services. Federal Security Service, Federal Antimonopoly Service, Investigative Committee, Prosecutor's Office, Court of Accounts, etc. And then, start with a "clean slate."
    1. bddrus
      bddrus 21 March 2013 14: 36 New
      0
      FSB did not turn off, there are materials
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 22 March 2013 12: 58 New
      0
      Yes, how to connect them if they too sigh, God forbid if something doesn’t work there and such a scandal happens as in the Moscow Region, now there probably isn’t such a structure where this rust rust has not appeared, The only question is what kind of corruption they have and how much they infected
  17. nil86
    nil86 21 March 2013 12: 50 New
    0
    Can someone explain, it does not fit in my head, why should I, on a par with everyone, pay people for armaments, so that later I can protect these people and their families from an external enemy? And if I have little money, then they will sell this weapon to the same enemy.
    1. kostella85
      kostella85 21 March 2013 13: 57 New
      +1
      А
      Quote: nil86
      why should I, on an equal basis with all, pay people for armament, so that later I can protect these people and their families from an external enemy?


      But do people also need to pay salaries at enterprises of the military-industrial complex?
      And for the development of these enterprises (usually AO) new systems and technologies, do you need to pay the price ??? wassat recourse
      1. nil86
        nil86 21 March 2013 15: 22 New
        0
        Quote: kostella85
        But do people also need to pay salaries at enterprises of the military-industrial complex?

        There is a state for this, provide your Armed Forces with the latest weapons, and the excess and obsolete can be sold.
  18. itkul
    itkul 21 March 2013 12: 58 New
    +1
    “After getting acquainted with the holding’s internal workflow, questions arose not only about the overpriced prices for repairs, but also about the technical condition of the enterprises themselves,” Kommersant’s interlocutor in the Ministry of Defense said. “Recovering them will take not only a lot of time, but also money, which can be spent much more rationally. " According to him, the fate of a number of military repair enterprises has already been de facto decided: by the beginning of 2014, the military plans to transfer about seven aircraft repair to the United Aircraft Corporation, and six armored plants to the Uralvagonzavod corporation.


    Campaigns are going to close unnecessary factories, and to drive people out into the street.
  19. Atlon
    Atlon 21 March 2013 13: 01 New
    +5
    By and large, the military should not be interested in prices, not in the military-industrial complex. The military should say: "We need this, this, this!" And how to do it and for what money, other departments should decide. The military must fight and learn to fight and nothing more! the only thing that military acceptance should be. And counting money is not a military function. Shoigu is absolutely right!
    1. zanoza
      zanoza 21 March 2013 13: 47 New
      +4
      Quote: Atlon
      Shoigu is absolutely right!


      Your reasoning is correct, BUT!
      In my opinion, the MO structure is not correct. It should be clearly divided into TWO constituent parts.
      Civil Add-in, led by the Minister (in wartime, the troops will be controlled by the Commander-in-Chief of the RF Armed Forces-the President, not the Ministry of Defense)
      и Military basisheaded by Nach. GS.
      Here he then must determine the needs and structure of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, formulate for the President the direction of development of the Armed Forces and implement political decisions of the Glavom.
      And the Minister, with his departments, should serve the army’s requests for logistics, life support, financing, etc., etc. ...
      And now, indeed, it turns out (at least it looks like this) that the Minister of Defense is sitting in TWO chairs: commands (manages, directs) the sun and at the same time must solve problems army for its development and support ....
      Without details and in general terms, I see the problem this way.
      1. Atlon
        Atlon 21 March 2013 14: 08 New
        -1
        Quote: zanoza
        In my opinion

        In general, it is logical, I agree with you.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 21 March 2013 14: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: Atlon
      And counting money is not a military function. Shoigu is absolutely right!


      Then the farmers do not need to consider let plow and medicine, let them treat and let teachers teach, etc. And who will count under the present system? - it is clear who is not Turuk-Macto and the banker, so he will count it with interest. Each ministry should be able to count because money likes the bill
    3. sas78
      sas78 21 March 2013 14: 26 New
      0
      I fully support. representatives of the Defense Ministry must decide whether this or that piece of iron is needed for our troops or is it a props.
    4. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 21 March 2013 20: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: Atlon
      The military should say, "We need this,


      Maybe all the same - academics and experts?
      Quote: Atlon
      And counting money is not a military function.


      And whose treasury can stand it? In 64 - 67 we remembered the cost of one cartridge for the country! And ran to the "standing tunic" from the salt!

      So organize accounting, let everyone calculate and if you fit
      let's estimate = unscheduled teachings. No, look for funds, do not squander it, NO! run with the soldiers to the "standing tunic"!
  20. Karabin
    Karabin 21 March 2013 13: 09 New
    +5
    After reading the article and other sources, I had an opinion about the persistent inability of government agencies to bear responsibility. The management of the egg-cup is planned to be transferred to some private structure. The defense finance management is also waiting. They will create some kind of LLC, and even a foreign top manager will be invited. All this is sad and cheating.
    1. amp
      amp 21 March 2013 13: 12 New
      -1
      but the corruption component will disappear.
      1. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 22 March 2013 13: 08 New
        0
        Quote: amp
        but the corruption component will disappear.
        , On the contrary, now the golden times are coming, Where did her darling go here is she A whole not plowed virgin land Now it’s going to become more fun, And then you are completely bored
  21. nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 21 March 2013 13: 13 New
    +4
    Shoigu admitted to his impotence!
    You will be the initiator of the creation of the DEFENSE CITY COUNCIL, led by the president for the adoption of weapons!

    And for a cinch - EXAMINATION ON QUALITY OF ARMS!

    As Peter 1 decided, how Stalin, Hitler, etc. decided. Who else ? If not the Minister of Defense? Only the president!
    Well, the FSB defense quality control team!

    To entrust (give) the supervision of their weapons to someone and then yell that the WEAPONS DO NOT shoot!

    Well, as an option: the Minister of Defense and the Academy of Defense decide what weapons the army needs! What about the price ?
    Either Shoigu to another place, or let him find a deputy!
    1. SCS
      SCS 21 March 2013 13: 55 New
      +2
      Shoigu, as I understand it, does not deny "supervision" and "acceptance", but from setting product prices!
      and above in the comments it was already said that all defense industry enterprises should be state owned and the price of weapons for equipment should only be set by the state! and if without intermediaries, the price is elementary, according to the textbook!
      1. kostella85
        kostella85 21 March 2013 14: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: SCS
        all defense industry enterprises must be state owned


        “Everything” - it will not work, any enterprise is in one way or another connected with private suppliers of components or nationalize them too!
        I agree that the state’s share in these enterprises should be, the state should. the representative is on the board of directors for control. I don’t see the eastern meaning!
        1. Ustas
          Ustas 21 March 2013 14: 17 New
          -1
          Quote: kostella85
          “Everything” - will not work,

          Not all, much. It is only necessary to turn on the brain.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 21 March 2013 17: 18 New
          0
          Quote: kostella85
          associated with private suppliers of components


          What - to compare the estimated cost, they can’t analyze the components in the Ministry of Defense?

          It's about when similar nodes are orders of magnitude more expensive!
          Say enter a valid percentage rise in price

          Brains need to be strained. fool

          Not ! This suggests that in the Ministry of Emergencies Shoigu lived like a cat at a Shrovetide!

          It's time for the Ministry of Emergency Situations to set off! hi
      2. philippov
        philippov 21 March 2013 14: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: SCS
        Shoigu, as I understand it, does not deny "supervision" and "acceptance", but from setting product prices!


        Absolutely right! MO should not set prices; pricing takes into account many factors.

        Quote: SCS
        and the price of weapons for equipment, only the state should establish!

        only then will it be possible to draw the right conclusions on what money is spent on weapons, on the development of the armed forces, or on something else
        1. SCS
          SCS 21 March 2013 16: 54 New
          0
          philippov - "only then it will be possible to draw the right conclusions on what money is spent on weapons, on the development of the armed forces or on something else"

          Dmitry, I absolutely agree with you !!!!!!!!!
          1. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 22 March 2013 13: 14 New
            0
            It’s completely crazy that the state here doesn’t want this with all the fibers of the soul, For the sake of this, everything has been started, For such purposes it creates an intermediary and everything,
  22. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 21 March 2013 13: 13 New
    0
    Kind! And the Minister of Defense is right !!! Starting from the ministry ending with an ordinary fighter, the military should be engaged in military training !!! instead of planting consider sowing! With an active field life, they will have affairs above the roof! I know what the active phases of flights at the airfield are from the Air Force. In ancient Russia, soldiers who knew how to fight were also beaten, and there were blacksmiths who forged their weapons! Who studied what.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 March 2013 14: 28 New
      +1
      The General Staff is engaged in combat training, the task of the Minister of Defense is to provide the army with everything necessary so that this training can be carried out. But Shoigu wants to give the issue of pricing to a third party, then why the hell is he needed?
      1. bddrus
        bddrus 21 March 2013 14: 45 New
        0
        That's right, in vain are there any kinds of financial controls in the Moscow Region !! Or is MO ready to spend money and buy for what price they say? There are management, there is a military-industrial complex with specially invented Rogozin - negotiate.
    2. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 21 March 2013 17: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Dwarfik
      Minister of Defense is right !!! Starting from the ministry ending with an ordinary fighter, the military should engage in military


      Then = General Staff deals with issues of army combat readiness and the MINISTER OF ISSUES OF THE ARMY or Comrade Shoigu (let him take off his uniform).

      If he (Shoigu) does not understand in pricing AND WHAT HE CAN UNDERSTAND IN ISSUES OF ARMENIA'S ABILITY. how many academies did he graduate from?

      Not at US, but at Shoigu! But why then Shoigu as Minister of Defense?
      What kind of defense specialist are you?
      1. Cpa
        Cpa 21 March 2013 18: 03 New
        0
        Nicholas, hi I want to support Shoigu a little bit in the shoes of a company at least to stay, I would understand what security and responsibility are, and as a political officer, I swear, "I worry about everything, but I’m not responsible for anything" negative
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 21 March 2013 19: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: KPA
          I swear, "I worry about everything, but I’m not responsible for anything"



          he used to = Putin: need help! Sh. - Guys, let's load! / And how much does it cost and what's the difference? If necessary, then it is necessary!

          And here I want the same: we will shoot both day and night, i.e. learn boom!
          And how much does it cost? But let’s let anyone think that we can’t!
          Lip no fool! at Sh.
          1. Cpa
            Cpa 21 March 2013 20: 54 New
            0
            Well, yes, the Ministry of Emergency Situations was born from scratch, made a list of the necessary items sent to Putin, he signed and that’s it. request It seems he never steamed over the budget of the ministry. fellow
  23. Zlyden.Zlo
    Zlyden.Zlo 21 March 2013 13: 43 New
    +2
    Something I'm not very sure that the prices for repair equipment and its maintenance will not reach the top after such a reorganization
  24. Slevinst
    Slevinst 21 March 2013 14: 35 New
    +1
    I would like to know that on the minds of Shoigu Putin and the others who are deciding the questions of our country, I am tormented by vague doubts that they can be trusted by all, money rules the world, all the tops are very muddy, and my fears are connected with the fact that they want to kill our country, education has already been killed, people are being raised, and in 5-10 years, 11 classes will begin to be considered higher education, and 5 years, taught to write and count and give farewell, I don’t even know what can be done, maybe it's too late and even Stalin will not save the country
  25. Corporal
    Corporal 21 March 2013 14: 49 New
    +3
    I think that defense enterprises that carry out military orders, in military terms and deal with state secrets, should be subordinate to the Ministry of War, and not to the civilian.
  26. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 21 March 2013 14: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Nayhas
    The General Staff is engaged in combat training, the task of the Minister of Defense is to provide the army with everything necessary so that this training can be carried out. But Shoigu wants to give the issue of pricing to a third party, then why the hell is he needed?


    Kind! Well, if you carefully re-read my post, then there is not a word about combat training, military - yes, but not military. Military and combat - do you feel the difference? Provision of army units is a whole range of measures, from providing weapons to providing officers with housing !!!! And for that matter, the Minister of Defense - the position is more supervisory than supply.
  27. Byordovvv1
    Byordovvv1 21 March 2013 16: 42 New
    +1
    Something the senior lieutenant frowns again! The military has always controlled product pricing and no one else. Even at the present time of “wild” capitalism, only military economists are holding back the price increase for products, excluding intermediary firms and other “body kits” for manufactured military products. Obviously, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation again had no luck with the Minister of Defense.
  28. SCS
    SCS 21 March 2013 16: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: kostella85
    Quote: SCS
    all defense industry enterprises must be state owned


    “Everything” - it will not work, any enterprise is in one way or another connected with private suppliers of components or nationalize them too!
    I agree that the state’s share in these enterprises should be, the state should. the representative is on the board of directors for control. I don’t see the eastern meaning!

    --------------
    -what components? Yes, almost all components for finished products are manufactured at the enterprises of the defense industry complex, or the enterprise itself makes the product entirely and completely ........... I know by hearsay! and the share of the state and state. representatives now exist !!!! therefore only nationalization !!!!!!!!!!!
  29. Cpa
    Cpa 21 March 2013 17: 30 New
    +2
    If they go to the Minister of Defense, he will lose the right to decide what to supply the army with and in what quantities. In addition, the army has financially responsible posts, with such prices the prison is waiting for them all. If they don’t buy the equipment, then it’s not for the military to write it off , which means the unit commanders will end the service with a heart attack or stroke.
    If they want the minister to be given money for purchases, shown what to buy, where to sign, then the chief of the General Staff will handle this.
  30. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 21 March 2013 22: 38 New
    0
    As a whole, he said everything correctly. I give money, but also plants to the load, do what you want, but the army must be provided with new equipment. Absolutely right.
  31. VadimSt
    VadimSt 21 March 2013 23: 55 New
    +1
    Simply, the shaft of the problems that had accumulated in the Moscow Region fell into an emotional outburst. The position, I think, is not true - utopian. For this, the functions and tasks of the Ministry and the General Staff, the Minister and the Chief of the General Staff are divided. This allows you to link the complex of political, military and economic tasks facing the state in the field of defense.
    To give a pricing control policy to other ministries is the same as sending a neighbor to buy "something tasty"!
  32. grafin
    grafin 25 March 2013 01: 55 New
    0
    will it turn out like the Great Arkady Raikin - who sewed a suit ??? - We!! to the buttons of the pritenza there is - no - free! generally ...

    Otmazyvayutsya from work ... then they say what did not fight ?? we bought bad tanks and shoes too tight bought bad, and so on ...
  33. redwar6
    redwar6 26 March 2013 18: 52 New
    0
    Quote: bask
    In Soviet times, there was a streamlined system, technology for repairing equipment and pricing., For armament.
    THE SOVIET SYSTEM BROKEN ,,, a big mind is not necessary under EBN ,,, and a new brain is not enough to rebuild.
    This is not a state .. means to tear. Here you have to move your brains !!!!!
    It is NECESSARY to REVIVE AT THE MODERN LEVEL, and in modern realities the SOVIET SYSTEM.

    They won’t give .. Don’t ask anything more, they just won’t give. Who?