Military Review

Russia and Kazakhstan will create enterprises to modernize and create new military equipment

42
Russia and Kazakhstan will create enterprises to modernize and create new military equipmentRussia and Kazakhstan will create enterprises for the modernization of military equipment. This was announced by Deputy Minister of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan Sergey Gromov at the plenary session of the Mazhilis.


According to him, of the 46 proposed by the Russian side in the draft program on 2013-2015, there were 9 events "that are in the interests of the two parties."

"Among them is a plan to create capacities for restoration and overhaul in Kazakhstan. aviation engines for military aircraft on the basis of the West Kazakhstan Engineering Company in Uralsk. The next project is the creation of an aviation technical center in Astana. Russian enterprises will take part in its creation, in particular during the repair of military helicopters. There are many more to enumerate, but this is only a draft program, it will still be coordinated after ratification, "Gromov said.

According to Tengrinews.kz, an agreement between the government of Kazakhstan and Russia on the development and implementation of joint work programs in the field of military-technical cooperation in the interests of the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan and Russia was signed in Orenburg on September 11 of 2009. The agreement defines the procedure for developing and implementing joint work programs in the field of military-technical cooperation in the interests of the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan and Russia.

The agreement defines cooperation in order not only to modernize and repair weapons and military equipment, but also to conduct research and development work to create new types of weapons and military equipment, the Deputy Minister of Defense of Kazakhstan noted.

He clarified that the agreement provides for joint work, but excludes the inclusion of programs of activities by one or the other party without the consent of one of the parties.

We add that in January, Kazakhstan and Russia signed an agreement on the creation of a unified regional air defense system.
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  1. Beck
    Beck 21 March 2013 12: 06 New
    15
    ALL.

    And atheists, and Orthodox, and Muslims, and Buddhists.

    I congratulate everyone on the occasion of Navruz. This is not a religious holiday for today's existing denominations. If anyone is interested, read on where he came from.

    From the 3rd millennium BC, from the steppes of the Black Sea region, to the steppes of Kazakhstan, Southern Siberia, Central Asia, the Iranian Highlands, and the North of India, Indo-Europeans - Arians began to populate. On the territory of Kazakhstan, Central Asia, they created a community that is now called the Andronovo culture. Andronovites belonged to the Iranian and Indo-speaking groups. Their supreme deity was a cow.

    In the first millennium BC in the country, Arianam Vaija - Prostor Ariev (from the Volga to the Yenisei and to Afghanistan), the priest of Zarathushtra (the One who drives camels), the arias from the Spitama clan, the son of Pouroroshaspa (Serol horse) proclaimed a new Faith, unlike the previous veneration by the arias of the Cow. Faith in the only, inalienable, eternal god of the creator AHUR MAZDU - LORD OF WISDOM. Creator of all other gods (ahur) and all good. The purpose of Faith is Good thought, Good Word, Good Work. This triad at the end of time should overwhelm Anhra Manyu - the Evil Spirit, ignorant of the truth and the evil leader of the demons - devas. At the end of time, Good and Evil will be finally separated from each other. In the new Faith, each individual can participate in the destruction of Evil and the establishment of the kingdom of Good, before which all devotees of shepherd's life are equally equal. Thus, paradise with milk rivers will be restored on earth.

    This is the first monoreligion of Monotheism in the history of mankind. Zarathustra calculated the spring vernal equinox, in March. And this day became New Year - OUTSIDE. In Iran, the priests turned the teachings of Zarathushtra into Zoroastrianism.

    In the first centuries of our era, the territory of Kazakhstan and Central Asia was inhabited by Turks who came from their ancestral home - the steppes of Mongolia. And the Türks assimilated Andron-Aryans. This cross preserved the Turkic language, but the Turkic language also absorbed many of the words of Iranian-speaking Andronovites. Some of the customs and traditions of the Andronovites were taken by this cross of blood. The faith of the cross became Tengrianism, but the Andronovo Navruz firmly entered the tradition. Even later, Islam could not abolish it.

    And until now, NAVRUZ is celebrated in all Turkic-speaking countries, in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the north of India. That is, where the Andron-Indo-Europeans were previously settled.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 21 March 2013 12: 28 New
      0
      Hi Beck. Again you are in the cons. And not the topic, albeit Navruz. Is it nothing that the Kazakhs are Mongoloids, and somehow the aria in the Kazakh is not easy to see? The question is what did you have there: assimilation or what else.

      But the theme is that the defense industry and you are slowly starting to raise it. With the help and with the participation of Russia. And it pleases.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 13: 48 New
        +7
        Nicholas, the Mongoloid (cheekbone, black-haired, brown-eyed) genes are stronger than the Caucasian Caucasian blond-eyed blue-eyed. If we talk about the Kazakhs, then this nation was actually created from two more or less equal parts - the Turkic nomads who arrived on the territory of the KZ two thousand years ago and the Iranian-speaking Scythian Central Asian nomads (Saks). Both cultures were very similar, because for several centuries both races mixed almost to a homogeneous state. As a result, the Turkic South Siberian type of person (the South Siberian / Turanian race - the transitional between the Mongoloids and Caucasians) defeated the Caucasoid Saka type, the Turkic religion - Tengrianism also took up, and Turkic speech completely prevailed. However, the Saks left their Kazakh descendants a huge layer in culture and language. My mother, by the way, is from a Saki clan, and my father is from a Turkic one.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 08 New
          +3
          Nikolai, can you distinguish a Bashkir / Kazakh from a Korean? We have different degrees of Mongoloidity. Modern Kazakhs have 70% of facial features - Mongoloid, 30% - Caucasoid. A thousand years ago, the proportion was diametrically opposite.
          By the way, more about changing the phenotype. In Britain, only a hundred years ago, 90% of women were fair-haired (usually red). Now only about 10% of British women are fair-haired.
      2. Beck
        Beck 21 March 2013 13: 58 New
        +4
        Quote: Nikolay S.
        Hi Beck


        Hi!

        On another page with anti-Semites and cheers-patriots yesterday clashed. That popped the cons. Well, okay, that’s not the reason for happiness.

        All Türks in their roots are Mongoloids. When in the 1st century a part of the Türkic-speaking Huns (I know you don’t support this and the scientists split up, but more on that later) moved to Xinjian and Southeast Kazakhstan (not Kazakhs, but Türks) they assimilated Andronovites and, as they politically prevailed, the language remained Turkic with many Iranian words. Nur is radiant. Aspan is the sky. Tolkyn is a wave. The names of Madi and Rustam are from the names of Saka heroes and kings. In the second century, another part of the Huns settled the Volga region and the north of Kazakhstan and also aasimilirovan Andronovites. It was from these cross-tribes that such Turkic peoples as Tatras, Uzbeks, and Kazakhs subsequently developed in the 15 century And as always, assimilation everywhere took place in different ways. Where more, where less, but the language became Turkic in view of the political pressure of the Turks. Uzbeks and Uighurs have more genes left from the Saks than Kazakhs, so they are more Caucasoid. The Tatars of Kazan have even more Andronov genes; therefore, they seem to have both pure Caucasians and Mongoloids. The Chuvash people didn’t mix with blood almost like that, but only adopted the Turkic language. And the Kazakhs of the Mongoloid genes were poured by a century-old steppe war with the Dzungars. Therefore, among the Türks, the most Mongoloid are Kazakhs. Yes, and the Kazakhs (you Slavs do not even see it) have differences between the southwestern and northeastern Kazakhs. The former are closer to the Uzbeks man-made, and the latter to the Mongols. But in the language, if not a quarter, then less than the Iranian-speaking words of the Aryans of the Andronovites.

        When the Andronovites of the Aryan passed through Central Asia, even before Zarathushtra, they divided into two streams. The first, Iranian-speaking, turned west to the Iranian Highlands and mixed with Semitic tribes became the ancestors of the Persians. The second, Indo-speaking, went to the north of India and the Swat Valley in Pakistan, where, mixed with the ancient Dravidian tribes, it became the ancestors of the Indians and Pakistanis. And assimilation also went unevenly. That is why Siddhartka Gautama (Buddha) was blue-eyed and with fair hair. And the teachings of Zarathushtra came to Iran and the Swat valley and to a lesser extent to North India .. Therefore, in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, they celebrate Navruz and very little in India, there is more Hinduism. By the way, the echoes of the Andronov’s cow deity remained with the Indians. There, they still venerate a cow for a sacred animal and, it seems to me, the vast majority of Indians do not know why.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 21 March 2013 14: 56 New
          +1
          Beck, don’t bring everything together. The Andronovo culture among archaeologists dates back to a very ancient period. From it late to future Huns about the same time as from Huns to us. And the Hunnu should not be classified as Turkic-speaking. Scientists there was nothing special to share. The only phrase reached us. Well, they tried to prove her belonging to various languages ​​- nothing unambiguous and convincing. So there is no reason to change the chronology set forth, for example, in the same Gumilyov. The end of the 5th century - the allocation of the Ashin clan among the Western Mongols (the ancestor of the Turkic peoples, native speakers of the Turkic language). Another century there is a war with buzzing. Almost continuous war with China. They also conquered Central Asia in the 8th century.

          They conquered the Eastern Sarmatians (they are attributed to the Iranians, the Saks - after all, the Western Sarmatians) and Dinlin. The Dinlins do not know who they are. Blond, blue-eyed Caucasians according to descriptions. But at the same time, one of them displays the Kyrgyz, some of the Tanguts ...

          The statement that all Türks are Mongoloids, albeit at the root, I think, will surprise some Türks. Somehow reluctance on this site to get into genetics and anthropology.

          For the last paragraph, I think you will generally be ashamed when you go deeper into the topic.

          Beck, when you think about the next discoveries to broadcast who went where and all that, you still let me know which of the scientists proved your allegations. And then you talk about the events of 1-2 thousand years ago as a witness.

          Marek Rozny See Beck's answer. I even distinguished Kazakhs from Uzbeks when I was in Kazakhstan. And what does Beck's statement follow from this? (This can be assumed, but not argued).
          1. Beck
            Beck 21 March 2013 16: 08 New
            +3
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            Beck, don’t bring everything together.


            Something your irritation skips. I don’t get annoyed if I don’t agree with you. References I am not of that generation. What I am writing is from the memory of what I read before, when the Internet was not yet there. And I did not read those works as a historian, but as an interested person. Therefore, I can’t recall all the authors and their works, as well as chapters and pages.

            Quote: Nikolay S.
            Andronovo culture by archaeologists dates back to a very ancient period


            And who says otherwise. And Andronovo culture was divided into Karasuk, Srubnaya, Abashevskaya and other subcultures. But all in general, it was called Andronovskaya.

            Quote: Nikolay S.
            And the Hunnu should not be classified as Turkic-speaking.


            And this is one of the stumbling blocks between us. Yes, some scholars attribute the Hunnic language to the Turkic languages. The other part does not apply. But this other part of the language of the Huns does not refer to anything at all. They just say that it’s not Turkic. Let's turn on the logic now. In the steppes of Mongolia, the Huns could have four languages ​​- Chinese, Tungus-Manchurian, Mongolian, Turkic. We immediately discard the Chinese, to a lesser extent the Tungus-Manchu, too, but we also discard it. Remain Mongolian and Turkic. The resettlement of the Huns in the first and second centuries to the territory of Kazakhstan, the Volga region and Central Asia is a historical fact. Hence, if the Huns had a Mongolian language, then where are its deposits in the modern languages ​​of the peoples of Central Asia, Kazakhstan, and the Volga region. Such as deposits of the Iranian language in modern Turkic languages. They are not here. There is a small part, but it is connected with the Genghis era. Therefore, I am inclined to assert that the Hunnic language was Turkic, agreeing with that part of the scholars who claim the same.

            Quote: Nikolay S.
            So there is no reason to change the chronology set forth, for example, in the same Gumilyov. The end of the 5th century - the allocation of the Ashin clan among the Western Mongols (the ancestor of the Turkic peoples, native speakers of the Turkic language)


            This is how to interpret Gumilyov. The tribe of Turkites gave the name to related languages, there could be both Hunnic languages ​​and Uyghur languages. The Turkites, having created their kagant, in the middle of the 6th century, took away political power from the Jujan steppes of Mongolia, from Khingan to the Dzungarian Alatau. Then they extended their power to the Volga and Central Asia. And if you look at the chronology of the battles of the troops of the Turkic Kaganate, one detail is exposed. The power of the Khagans spread to the Volga without battles and battles. And this suggests that with
            my point of view is that the power of the Turkites voluntarily or under pressure, but without resistance, was perceived already settled there in the 1st and 2nd centuries, related Turks, crosses of Turks and Andronovites. That is, the Turkites did not settle from the Dzungarian Alatau to the Volga, and they established their political power over related Turkic tribes.

            Let's continue.
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 21 March 2013 16: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Beck
              Let's continue.

              No, do not continue.

              The more words, the farther you are from reality. Well, why did you mix DIFFERENT archaeological cultures into a bunch, and even call them Andronov’s units? Well, Karasukskaya, although it is a continuation of Okunevskaya, is it noted at least some of the influence of Andronovskaya, and the rest? So on other points.

              If you are going to write on knowledgeable topics, be prepared to confirm your words. And you're in a pose - a real Native American does not read books. I like to talk on these topics - read, develop. Moreover, there are still many archaeological cultures in your area. And if you delve into the identified mtDNA, then in general you will have fun.
            2. Beck
              Beck 21 March 2013 16: 57 New
              +3
              Quote: Beck
              Continue


              Battles began only when the wars of the Turkic Kaganate (already the Turks and Turkiites) began to conquer non-related tribes. In the Aral Sea in 555 -558, the last fragments of the Uara and Ephthalites related to the Saks were conquered. (Another part of the Ephthalites was in Middle Asia). In 565 there was a battle for the Iranian-speaking Central Asia, in those days Tokharistan and Sogd, and the Tokhars and Sogdians are the descendants of the Andronovo culture. And here the interests of the kaganate and Persia already converged. In 565, in the battle of Nakhshab, the troops of the Persian Shah Khosrov were defeated and Sogd came under the authority of the Khaganate. In 567, the last Ephthalites were defeated near Bukhara. There were no such battles in other territories of present-day Kazakhstan. This speaks of only one thing. The Turkiites have extended their political power over the Turks of Kazakhstan. But they didn’t move in any way. And where to get so many people to populate everything from Khingan to the Volga. Beyond the Volga, battles with other peoples, not with the Turks, began only in 575-576. During the campaigns of the Turks on the Bosporus of Kimeri, Crimea, the Western Caucasus.

              Quote: Nikolay S.
              The statement that all Türks are Mongoloids, albeit at the root, I think, will surprise some Türks. Somehow reluctance on this site to get into genetics and anthropology.


              What do you mean by the Mongoloid? Mongols, or what? I think that historians distinguish a group of peoples into a large family and call it Mongoloid or Altai. And this includes the Mongols, and the Türks, and the Nivkhs, and the Manchus, and the Tungus, and others. The term refers to the Asian populations of the peoples of Central and East Asia.

              Quote: Nikolay S.
              For the last paragraph, I think you will generally be ashamed when you go deeper into the topic


              Why should I be ashamed? For that matter, let the shame professor at St. Petersburg University, the head of the Department of Mogulistics and Turkology Klyashtorny and professor at the same University Sultanov. I quoted their works as a keepsake.

              Quote: Nikolay S.
              And then you talk about the events of 1-2 thousand years ago as a witness.


              In the same way, I can answer you. What, in your comment you brought a bunch of links and a whole list of learned surnames?

              As far as I suppose, you are not a professional historian, but as much an amateur as I am. Therefore, a mentor tone on your part is not appropriate. Besides, as intelligence reports, you are a conservative nationalist, and if that is so, then your attitude to other stories is to some extent clear.
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 21 March 2013 15: 03 New
      0
      Quote: Beck
      Congratulations to all on the holiday of Navruz

      Then I thought why it is called Navruz.
      Associated with the new year. Apparently the compound word. "Nav" - "new", the root one and the same, "ruz" - "rus", "z" and "c" are interchangeable. The Russians came - brought a new year.
      Marek I'm waiting for a rebuttal.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 15: 11 New
        +2
        “Nav Ruz” is a “new day” in all Iranian languages. The Turks inherited this word from assimilated Iranian-speaking Saka ancestors. No "Russian" here and does not smell. Got his fiction. This holiday was celebrated in our region, when there was not even a mention of the Eastern Slavs.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 21 March 2013 15: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          "Nav Ruz" - "new day"

          Nav is a new one from the Russian, the day begins with the dawn, hence the “ruz”, the reverse reading of the word “dawn”.
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Got his fiction.

          Where am I going to you. You’re producing “vanilla” from the “vagina” together with the Oxford sages. And you don’t notice the Slavs stubbornly.
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 21 March 2013 15: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          This holiday was celebrated in our region, when there was not even a mention of the Eastern Slavs.

          This does not mean that there were no Slavs.
          1. Beck
            Beck 21 March 2013 17: 44 New
            +5
            Quote: baltika-18
            Where am I to you? Well you


            Well, why boil. Iranian, Germanic, Slavic languages ​​come from the great Indo-European. The root is much the same. Type - Nav, New, News. Everywhere on H begins. Wolf - Wolf. On V. Day - Day On D.

            Well, we took something from the Indo-European at one time.
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 21 March 2013 19: 08 New
              -2
              Quote: Beck
              Well, we took something from the Indo-European

              There was no Indo-European language. There were Old Slavic and Ancient Turkic (Arabic), and so close that people understood each other without much difficulty. Everything went from them. Any word is explained by the roots from the Russian language, and any incomprehensible Russian is Arabic. For example, the expression is forty - a thief that stole a magpie, no more than other birds. The Arabic verb "saroka" to steal.
              Further, the Arabic “salavat” is a prayer. Russian “praise.” Initially they wrote from right to left, the Arabs left it, then left to right. Sometimes it would be useful to turn the word to get to the truth. Take the word “shahid”, a person who gives his life for Islam, in the Arabic transcription "shud", if back from the Russian "soul". The Arabian "slave" is "jalab", the Russian "complaint." I can cite many examples.
              1. Beck
                Beck 21 March 2013 19: 53 New
                +2
                Quote: baltika-18
                There was no Indo-European language. There were Old Slavic and Ancient Turkic (Arabic), and so close that people easily understood each other


                Well. I don’t even know how to answer. In general, I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of the language issue.

                Indo-European as a parent language existed in the great Indo-European community. As the number of ancestors increased, there was a division into kinship communities. From their core, the steppes of the Black Sea, these communities settled in all directions. And at each community, the Indo-European language began to separate itself into its own languages ​​.. Indo-Aryans and Irano went east, taking with them Indo and Iranian languages ​​isolated from the Indo-European. Germanic, Romance, and Slavic communities with their languages ​​went west and north. The ancestral home of the Slavs is the territory of Poland. Both Germanic and Romance and Slavic languages ​​also descended from the pre-Indo-European. The Hittites stand alone. Their ancestors, either through the Caucasus, or through the Balkans, went to Anatolia and formed a mighty state called the Hittite state, which competed with Ancient Egypt. According to some recent scholars, the Hittite language can be attributed to the Proto-Slavic languages.

                Germanic languages, in turn, were divided into German, Danish, Swedish and on. Romance in Italian, Spanish and on. Slavic into Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and beyond. Part of the Indo and Iranian Aryans from the steppes of Kazakhstan, via Central Asia, left: the Iranian Aryans in the Iranian Highlands and gave life to the Persians, the Iranian language, as well as to Afghanistan, the Pashto language is related to Iranian. Indo-Aryans to Northern India, Pakistan, where they gave rise to the languages ​​Sankrit, Hindi, Urdu.

                Here are all the languages ​​spoken here descended from the great Indo-European origin of all Indo-Europeans - the steppes of the Black Sea. Of course, all this in general terms. And there are a lot of details and particulars, but this is already a matter of specialists. And linguists in the 19th century began to collect all these languages ​​into one, when they discovered the similarity of Sanskrit with European languages. In particular, with English because India at that time was a colony of India. And as a result of painstaking work, they created what I wrote above in general terms.
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 21 March 2013 20: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: Beck
                  Germanic languages, in turn, were divided into German, Danish, Swedish and on. Romance in Italian, Spanish and onwards

                  All European languages ​​have one Latin root. Latin itself is an artificial formation, a compilation of Latin and Old Slavic dialects gave rise to European languages.
                  Russian mom, Latin mom mom, nipple, udder, chest
                  .............. Father-in-law ............... socer
                  .............. sister ................. sorer
                  ............... son ...................... son
                  ............... aunt ..................... amita (Russian mother)
                  ......... father, dad ................ pater (transition bp)
                  I can also give a lot of examples, everything agrees, it is enough to abandon the antiquity of Latin. The Russian root and Latin based on it are taken.
                  1. Beck
                    Beck 21 March 2013 22: 37 New
                    +2
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    All European languages ​​have one Latin root


                    Latin refers to the Romance languages ​​of the Italian group of Indo-European languages ​​.. It was spoken by the Latino tribe in Italy, then it spread to the inhabitants of Rome. After the fall of the Roman Empire, the Latin language became dead, but became the language of science until the 20th century. And the Latin language did not form as artificial. And with Slavic languages ​​it is connected only by a common origin from the Great Indo-European language.
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 01: 01 New
                    +2
                    Baltic, here I have five in the Latin language in the first diploma. So I don’t need to make stupid "discoveries" here. Not all European languages ​​originated from Latin, but only Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, French, and every little thing. And in Europe there are completely different language groups - Germanic languages, Celtic, Slavic, Finno-Ugric.
                    Latin and Slavic languages ​​have common roots - Indo-Europe. But these paths-tracks och long ago.
                    About the mixture of "Latin with Nizhny Novgorod", from which the European languages ​​evolved - complete nonsense ignoramus.
                    Z.Y. How can you make yourself a philologist without knowing the languages ​​in question?
                    1. baltika-18
                      baltika-18 22 March 2013 08: 42 New
                      0
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      How can you make yourself a philologist without knowing the languages ​​in question?

                      I’m not a philologist, I’m an amateur. It’s easier for me to reject the wrong, not like “teaching” like you. But I speak English, I study German according to the same method, I am interested in Arabic.
                      Our eyes are the future, and yours is in the dustbin of history. hi
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 15: 32 New
                        +1
                        not a single "amateur" has yet achieved anything in philology. apart from ambition and fiction, they cannot generate anything.
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 21 March 2013 19: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: Beck
              Beck (

              But you definitely plus Beck for his thoughtfulness, such a thing. In addition, we are about the same age.
    3. avt
      avt 21 March 2013 17: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: Beck
      And atheists, and Orthodox, and Muslims, and Buddhists.

      Well, and you happy holiday! By the way, the Slavs had New Year at the vernal equinox. And the year was 360 days - the circle of the Sun, plus the holidays - the spring and autumn equinox and the winter and summer Sun standing, well, a couple of floating depending on which year. Old people with mathematics and astronomy were friends. No wonder the Sumerian king swore an oath not to break the calendar. But now we celebrate the new year after the tenth month. He introduced Petya No. 1 to universal values ​​with a hangover. laughing
      1. Beck
        Beck 21 March 2013 18: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: avt
        Well, and you happy holiday!


        Приветствуем!

        Well, it's just nice to read adequate comments, without a touch of pride. Here, the Slavs also have New Year in the spring equinox. What does it mean? So if you look farther inland, then the general is. Of course, the Indo-Aryans contacted the Indo-Europeans remaining in the Black Sea. And it is quite possible that even before Zarathushtra the Indo-Europeans calculated the day of the spring equinox. And Zatushtra attached sacred meaning to this, in the steppes of Kazakhstan. All of us, from one black Eve from Africa, drove 70 thousand years ago. And one monkey about 90 million years ago. And from one cell 3-4 billion years ago.

        And why is Pyotr Alekseevich so sloppy.

        Once again with the general holidays of our ancestors.
        1. avt
          avt 21 March 2013 20: 12 New
          +4
          Quote: Beck
          Well, it's just nice to read adequate comments, without a touch of pride.

          Ну request and pride then what? He simply pointed out a well-known fact, coming from the Vedas among the Slavs, who seemed to be not there.
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          when there was even no mention of the Eastern Slavs.
          And why am I not very honoring Petya .....
          Quote: Beck
          And why is Pyotr Alekseevich so sloppy.

          Well, at least for the fact that earlier, before his church reform, by going to the Orthodox church, which in most cases stood on the saints' places for the previous Vedic religion, it was possible to determine the latitude and longitude of the place with accuracy to one degree and, you will not believe it, the direction blowing wind .. Only on architectural grounds, now these rules are not adhered to. A lot of things have gone and shifted to the western is not always the right way. Yes, the same new year after the tenth month from Germany.
          1. Beck
            Beck 21 March 2013 20: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: avt
            Well, what about pride? He simply pointed out a well-known fact coming from the Vedas among the Slavs, whom


            So I mean, without cheers, they say only we and no one else.

            Quote: avt
            , it was possible to determine the latitude and longitude of the place with an accuracy of one degree. Only on architectural grounds.


            Well, here it is normal communication. Every time, something new. If it does not, generally, how longitude and latitude were determined.
            1. avt
              avt 21 March 2013 21: 09 New
              +1
              Quote: Beck
              If it does not, generally, how longitude and latitude were determined.

              With breadth, everything is simple, the temple is strictly oriented by the altar to the east, to meet the Sun. The cross at the base has a crescent, it is an anchor. The Orthodox cross bar, which seems to be superfluous and is not found in others, should clearly point to the North Star with the upper end. Draw a horizontal line along the lower end of the bar and this is the latitude. It is more difficult with longitude, here it is necessary to show on old crosses. But it is connected with the Sun, or rather, with its stylized image indicating time zones. But here we must take into account that the reckoning was naturally not according to the Greenwich meridian. In short, something like this.
              1. Beck
                Beck 21 March 2013 22: 38 New
                +1
                Quote: avt
                With breadth, everything is simple


                Thank you.
  2. 120352
    120352 21 March 2013 12: 17 New
    +2
    But is it not dangerous for Russia? Do you know the contents of the Kazakh history textbooks? I mean that the Kazakhs do not consider us friends at all. For them, we are colonialists and exploiters, despite the fact that we fed them all our lives and continue to feed them now. Yes, only "no matter how much the wolf feeds ..." Then everyone knows. And then it also turns out that the person descended from the Kazakh ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 13: 56 New
      +2
      complete nonsense. first, they would read Kazakh textbooks themselves, and even compare them with Soviet ones. then they themselves would stop believing in the hysterical articles of the provocateurs.
      1) The policy of tsarist Russia is really called in the Kazakh textbooks - colonial. But just as it was called in Soviet times. Check out any Kazakhstan / Uzbekistan / Tajikistan / Kyrgyz history textbook
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 25 New
        +2
        it is strange that half the message has been erased. I’ll write again.
        1) The policy of Russia was called colonial in Soviet textbooks. The Kazakhs did not write anything new in this section. Read the textbooks until 1991 and be indignant at the fact that the USSR called the actions of tsarist Russia colonial))))))
        2) In Kazakhstan, textbooks write about the excesses of Soviet power and about achievements. At the same time, the Russian people themselves are not offended at all. In Kazakhstan, these concepts are not officially confused. It is only in Russia that fools personify “Soviet power” and “Russian people” in one concept, attributing to themselves all the achievements of Soviet power, and at the same time completely abstracting themselves from the “shoals” of Soviet power. You either remove the cross or put on your underpants.
        3) Tsarist Russia did not "feed" Kazakhstan and did not build anything actually for the Kazakhs. But she regularly taxed, and also received millions of heads of cheap high-quality cattle from the Kazakh steppe. The Soviet government (but not the Russian people) really built the entire main industrial infrastructure in the Kazakh SSR, but it is very interesting - 90% of Kazakhstan's goods were exclusively raw materials, the rest - the military industrial complex and an insignificant share of consumer goods. Kazakhstan gave the common country much more than it received - grain, meat, metals, uranium, oil, gas, coal and more. During the war, 9 out of 10 bullets were cast from Kazakh lead.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 21 March 2013 15: 12 New
          -1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          2) In Kazakhstan, textbooks write about the excesses of Soviet power and about achievements. At the same time, the Russian people themselves are not offended at all. In Kazakhstan, these concepts are not officially confused.

          Officially not, but at the level of teaching in schools there is such a thing. Where did you get it?
          My girlfriend lives in Kostanay, studied together. It happens sometimes.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 15: 21 New
            +2
            Your girlfriend is a fool, if she thinks so. She is apparently offended when the Kazakhs say that not only nishtyaki brought Soviet power. She wants to feel like a representative of the Soviet regime, but she really doesn’t want anyone to recall the "schools" of the Bolsheviks, as was customary in the recent past. Kazakhs, on the contrary, are more respectful of the Soviet past than Russians. It’s just that the Russians think that when they scum their history, this is normal, and when the Kazakhs criticize the Soviet government (but not the Russian people), then the Russians have a disconnected Motsk and they become hysterical. It is in Russia that a monument to Soviet soldiers can be demolished, while Kazakhs, on the contrary, are increasing the number of such monuments. Moreover, they are building not only in KZ, but also in Europe and Russia. And not a single Kazakhstani historian will write about the fact that they “littered with meat” and other dregs. This, whatever one may say, is the lot of Russian storytellers. And we will mention errors and miscalculations of the Soviet government in our textbooks. From the 20th to the 33rd year, Kazakhs lost 2/3 of their numbers. This is not just an excess, it is a national disaster. And do not care that there will be some girls and boys who have nothing in their brains besides the phrase "we built Disneyland Kazakhs".
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 21 March 2013 15: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Your girlfriend is a fool

              It's a pity you are so far away.......
              But I will find you this year ........ At the end of the year .......
              Wait for a visit ....... Don’t tell the address ........ I will find out myself.
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 21 March 2013 16: 05 New
              -1
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Your girlfriend is a fool, if she thinks so.

              You also think a lot of things, I’m not saying that you are
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              It’s just that Russians think that when they shit their story

              Russians do not scum, they want to know the truth.
              You debate.
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              From the 20th to the 33rd year, Kazakhs lost 2/3 of their numbers. This is not just an excess, it is a national disaster.

              In the light of your posts, why not three, it would be more logical.
  3. aksakal
    aksakal 21 March 2013 12: 20 New
    +5
    Well, finally, Russia stirred, and then Turkey began to cultivate the fertile field of the emerging defense industry of Kazakhstan. Otokar is spinning here, a bunch of Turks.
    I thought that the Russian military-industrial complex in its usual style, considering the enterprises of the Union countries as their most malicious potential customers, as it was until recently in Belarus, will take the position of a defensive defense - we won’t buy anything from you (after all, even the Sosna-U sighting system from they didn’t want to take Belarusians, although their Russian analogues are inferior in terms of performance characteristics), we will sell you only for hard currency based on 100% prepayment in the form of finished products and with an agreed minimum lot, etc. This message was definitely pleased - we remain in the Russian weapons zone.
    Now I would like to open Russian universities for the allied countries - that would be, if paid, then quite inexpensive. This is also one of the best elements, or rather instruments of influence. Having finished some thread GATU them. Bauman, a graduate will never become a fan of Western technology, however, he will be able to appreciate its advantages and try to achieve the same at home. But it will never fit like that, it’s better to be from the west, and therefore we will close our plant and buy from the west - both simpler and better equipment.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 00 New
      +5
      Finally, in Russia there is a normal minister who understands that one cannot reject the long-term requests of the Kazakhs for the production of military equipment. Due to the snobbery of the former leadership, Russia has already profiled a lot in favor of France, Israel, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, Ukraine and other countries with which the Kazakhs created a joint venture in the military-industrial complex.
    2. Beck
      Beck 21 March 2013 15: 09 New
      +4
      While Russia was swinging, Kazakhstan did not wait. Equipped his army with military equipment of Western production, the latest modifications. And the army of Kazakhstan, today, is the strongest in Central Asia. Both in armament and in combat training and in the moral-volitional qualities of a soldier.

      If you do not transform, then the Kazakhstan Army will be more feasible than the combined armies of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan combined.

      And it’s good that Russia understood that if we did not create joint R&D, then it would lose profit in equipping the ally with military equipment.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 15: 31 New
        +3
        Only after Cadex 2012 did the Russians realize that they were one step away from a major bummer in terms of modernizing Kazakhstan’s armored vehicles. Here the Israelis, Italians, Turks and Ukrainians already offer their services with might and main. Already, Kazakhstan has created with the Turks the first model of its modernized T-72. If Russian defenders didn’t come to their senses after Kadeks, then in 5 years Kazakhstan would practically not depend on Russian technology. For 20 years, they have been taught the same thing, but in return nothing but arrogance. He himself participated in negotiations with the Russians on the production of helicopters in Kazakhstan. An unpleasant sediment remained - a feeling of arrogance and a desire to "warm up on the headstock." With private traders on the contrary, things went quickly and efficiently. Kamaz was generally invited in a simple way, called the plant, introduced himself, contacted the management, invited them to meet in Astana regarding the creation of a joint venture. They thought for three minutes, and said: "Give 3-4 days, and we will fly." Six months later, the first KAMAZ of the Kazakhstan assembly in Almaty was already released. Now they are produced in Kokshetau. And Russian officials are enemies of their own state. They don’t know how to think at all. They think only works when talking about bribes. Ours, too, are not fools to put a pretty penny in their pocket, but so that the state would also benefit. There are all sorts, but in general - so.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 21 March 2013 16: 05 New
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          He himself participated in negotiations with the Russians on the production of helicopters in Kazakhstan. An unpleasant sediment remained - a feeling of arrogance and a desire to "warm up on the headstock."

          It was different. Nazarbayev invited the government to be the first new prime minister, Minister of Science and New Technologies Galym Abilsiitov. Galym called me and several of my colleagues to come to Dzhezkazgan to look at the association: the plant, GOKs, mines, etc. - give recommendations on possible modernization and, most importantly, prepare documents for corporatization. We did not impose anything on anyone, we listened.

          What they have not heard enough: the British will build the road to Kazakhstan to the Indian Ocean, and the Koreans will give money for nothing (for waste) (by the way, then they learned that the Koreans bought everything there in Dzhezkazgan almost for nothing), and other fiction. They did not disappoint anyone, they only said: if it is real to build such a road, it’s good, well, if the Koreans, indeed, such benefactors for you, take it.

          Kazakhstan needed time to go its own way. Learn about free cheese in a mousetrap. And about an old friend who is better than the new two.

          Beck "Kazakhstan did not wait. Equipped its army with military equipment of Western production, the latest modifications"

          Beck, don't drive. Only a few days ago there was an article on the forum listing each item that is in service with the army of Kazakhstan.
          1. Beck
            Beck 21 March 2013 18: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            Beck, don't drive. Only a few days ago there was an article on the forum listing each item that is in service with the army of Kazakhstan


            But I am in relation to light Italian attack helicopters. And then for 30 thousand personnel, 3,2 thousand military equipment is, anyway, solid. Something like this.
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 23: 12 New
            +3
            Nikolai, apparently, things were in the very beginning of the 90s. There were a lot of projects and projects. Foreigners didn’t offer any kind of dregs, right up to the construction of airships (the Germans quite seriously offered). Regarding the factories, they really sold them to foreigners for a penny. Millions of debts hung on them, which the state was not able to pay, there was no dough at all. We even printed our currency with the British on credit. And it was necessary not only to repay debts for enterprises, but also to invest in them. Therefore, it was decided to give them to the bourgeoisie. Investors were different - and outright crooks, and normal. They were burned more than once.
            The Russians, by the way, in those years generally scored on relations with Kazakhstan. Neither Yeltsin was interested in Kazakhstan, nor businessmen. It is now furiously increasing the number of joint ventures with the Russians, and then only Turks, Amers, Europeans, Koreans came here. The "old friend" generally ignored all the processes in the KZ; there were enough of his own affairs. Only under Putin did real cooperation begin.
            By the way, the roads to the eastern seas were almost completed)))) Kazakhstan-Turkmenistan-Iran-Persian Gulf. And the road to India is blocked by China. And through Afghanistan, it’s not really a hunt to build yet. Although the Uzbeks deal with this issue.
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 21 March 2013 17: 29 New
        -1
        Quote: Beck
        If you do not transform, then the Kazakhstan Army will be more feasible than the combined armies of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan combined.

        Beck ...... Beck .......
        Well, Marek is a professional propagandist .......
        But you seemed to be adequate all the time .....
        1. Beck
          Beck 21 March 2013 18: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: baltika-18
          Beck ...... Beck


          I agree, I did not count individually. But they sat down quickly to remember. One can’t even remember what military equipment Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan purchased abroad. Turkmenistan

          And then, of course, I could be wrong, but this is my personal opinion.
  4. rennim
    rennim 21 March 2013 13: 02 New
    -3
    Given Kazakhstan’s recent views towards NATO, at least the decisions of Russia to work together look strange ... especially in R&D. It would be understandable if Kazakhstan had interesting and promising technologies. But apparently the RF is going to act as a donor. Very strange .. .
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 21 March 2013 13: 17 New
      +6
      rennim
      Listen, instead of rejoicing that the Russian plants will have orders, and the workers and engineers have a job - you start another tantrum ... fool Kazakhstan can (financially) allow itself to cooperate with enterprises of the military industrial complex, as well as the United States, and other foreign arms manufacturers ... But fulfilling allied obligations (yes, strange as it sounds) tries to work with the Russian defense industry ... And when the Russian Federation cannot offer anything substantial, it turns to the West ... And by the way, they stand in line for the sake of orders .. (and not show off, like some ...)
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 21 March 2013 13: 39 New
        -2
        Quote: Alibekulu
        And by the way, they are in line for orders

        Not for the F-35 by accident.
      2. rennim
        rennim 21 March 2013 13: 50 New
        +1
        Listen, instead of rejoicing that the Russian plants will have orders, and the workers and engineers have a job - you start another tantrum ...


        I don’t need to poke and talk about hysteria ... Workers and engineers in Russia can and should have jobs ... And do not talk about Kazakhstan as the savior of Russian workers and engineers. So, Russia is a big donor to everyone ... It’s enough to remember with whose hands Kazakhstan was raised .. One virgin land is worth what.
        My city is full of stopped enterprises and they need workers and orders ... and not Kazakhstan ... Since you are so independent ..
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 14 New
          +3
          Za_bali nonsense about the "donor Russia" and "Kazakh parasites." Kazakhstan has given far more to a common country than it received. Virgin soil was not raised for the sake of the Kazakhs, the bulk of the bread went to Russia and other republics of the USSR. Kazakhs in life did not need so much wheat. Even now. Who needed virgin land - the RSFSR or Kazakhstan? Moreover, the virgin lands were usually from the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR. Who was fed from the virgin lands - Kazakhs or Russians, roughly speaking?
          I'm not talking about the fact that the virgin saga is an example of Moscow's stupidity, which absolutely did not take into account local realities and, in fact, ruined the vast steppe expanses for many centuries, on which now nothing can be grown for a long time. Those hectares on which wheat is now growing are only a fraction of the total area of ​​plowing. Due to wind erosion, the fertile layer is banal weathered. As a result, already in the 70s, the territory of virgin lands decreased significantly, and the masses of virgin lands from Russia left back, because there was no work for them. Mass migration of Slavs (usually virgin settlers) from the KZ began even then and intensified in the 80s.
          1. kostella85
            kostella85 21 March 2013 14: 46 New
            +3
            Hi Marek! Tat will correct you a little:
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Who needed virgin land - the RSFSR or Kazakhstan?

            Not the RSFSR but the entire USSR! We alone didn’t eat so much! wink
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 15: 03 New
              +2
              Costella
              I agree with pleasure. only then why consider that the virgin soil was raised for the Kazakhs, as some here say.
          2. Beck
            Beck 21 March 2013 14: 53 New
            +3
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            which absolutely did not take into account local realities and in fact for many centuries ruined the giant expanses of the steppe, on which now nothing can be grown for a long time


            Hence, another important one. Instead of using feather grass, one of the most productive pastures in the world, for the comprehensive development of animal husbandry, these millennial strata have been plowed. Half of the plowed, subsequently destroyed, the cattle were put under a knife.

            And that is precisely why the statistics for the years 50-60-70-80 did not include a propaganda line on the number of livestock compared to 1913.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 15: 07 New
              +2
              Beck
              in-in. It would be better to leave this steppe for Kazakh cattle - there would be more benefit for the USSR. Now there’s nowhere to go, specifically the remains of virgin lands have been imprisoned for wheat - let it remain so. But, damn it, it would be better if the meat production was left there. It was much more effective than sowing in the Kazakh steppe. Nomads knew the properties of this land much better than Moscow agrarians.
              1. Beck
                Beck 21 March 2013 19: 08 New
                +6
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                It would be better to leave this steppe for Kazakh cattle - there would be more benefits for the USSR


                I will add. Argentina did not plow its pampas now the beef pushes around the world. And our steppes, in terms of productivity, are not inferior to pampas and surpass the American prairies, not to mention the pastures of Australia.

                And we plowed, but still we bought wheat in the USA and Canada. And cattle was driven from Mongolia. For Mongolian cattle, the Semipalatinsk meat-packing factory was the largest in the USSR after, it seems, Leningradsky. And then Leningradsky basically processed the delivered carcasses from other regions. Since there were no cattle in the vicinity to fill the production lines of the Leningrad meat processing plant.
          3. baltika-18
            baltika-18 21 March 2013 17: 34 New
            -2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Kazakhstan has given far more to a common country than it received.

            He now gives Russia a lot of things .....
            For example, the transit of Afghan heroin.
            Why are borders zero?
            Russia and Kazakhstan have a single customs space, the borders are symbolic.
            1. marshes
              marshes 21 March 2013 17: 42 New
              +2
              Quote: baltika-18
              He now gives Russia a lot of things .....
              For example, the transit of Afghan heroin.
              Why are borders zero?
              Russia and Kazakhstan have a single customs space, the borders are symbolic.

              The customs officers left and the border guards remained, the border remains controlled and guarded. Crossing the border is allowed only at checkpoints, the number of which is limited. Mandatory passport control procedure.
              I wanted to ask how coke and amphetamine are in Russia and then it gets to us?
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 21 March 2013 22: 03 New
                -2
                Quote: marshes
                Mandatory passport control procedure.

                Passports are checked, but cargo?
                Or they just don’t take a fee, but they also shake it.
            2. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 21 March 2013 18: 42 New
              +3
              OK, our guards are to blame. crying
              And your gallant kudyt look repeat
              Close in the end ...
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 21 March 2013 22: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: Alibekulu
                Close in the end.

                If my will would close and tightly, with firing articles
                Many goals would fly.
                But we have tolerance at every turn.
                1. Alibekulu
                  Alibekulu 22 March 2013 00: 27 New
                  +3
                  baltika-18
                  Anecdote in the topic: "Ensign, enemy of the Soviet Army"
                  An Afghan sits in ambush with a rifle:
                  Looks at the sight - ours appears with one bow:
                  An Afghan gets a reference book and reads:
                  "With one strip - corporal:
                  25 Afghan Prize:
                  While aiming, the corporal disappeared:
                  Appears with two tags:
                  An Afghan gets a reference book, reads:
                  "With two stripes - junior sergeant:
                  Award - 30 Afghani ":
                  While aiming - the younger sergeant disappeared:
                  Appears with two stars:
                  Afghan man took aim and killed:
                  Retrieves handbook, reads:
                  "Two small stars - ensign, enemy of the Soviet Army:
                  50 Afghani fine. "


                  You and your FSB, MIA and other competent authorities will figure it out, this is their job .. soldier And here the Kazakhs ...
                  Yes, and more ... who entered Afghanistan ..
                  It was understood, no country (with its own troubles, kind, tribes, clans), like Pakistan for example ..
                  And nyh-nah bulo tudy climb fool
                  And now we also present them:baltika-18 "Afghan heroin"
                  Or maybe just "Do not scrape where it does not itch." Chernomyrdin
                  1. Kaa
                    Kaa 22 March 2013 00: 45 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Alibekulu
                    who entered Afghanistan ..
                    It was understood, no country (with its own troubles, kind, tribes, clans), like Pakistan for example ..
                    And nyh-nah bulo tudy climb

                    Back in the 80s, one wise person from the Ideological Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU said that it is better to defend against Muslim fundamentalism (the terms Wahhabism, the Taliban were not used then) in Jalalabad than in Ashgabat, it was published in the Literary Newspaper, which often party bonuses "semi-official", in contrast to the Pravda editorials, expressed their opinion. I then scratched my turnips, what fundamentalism in Soviet Central Asia request ... the young unreasonable was ... winked Did he provoke this massacre ... or was the psychic prophet ... or was he just a good intelligence analyst?
                  2. Kaa
                    Kaa 22 March 2013 01: 08 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Alibekulu
                    "Ensign, enemy of the Soviet Army"

                    What is your relationship with Wahhabism? Anecdotes from the time of the Afghan war ... only from the “other side”, all kinds of savikas, shusters then stamped them on the loot of “Freedom” and “Voices of America” ... maybe you owe life to some ensigns ... independent ... or maybe regret that you still do not live according to Sharia?
            3. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 23: 15 New
              +3
              Baltic, and from Russia synthetic drugs come to us. We are silent about this?
              1. Kaa
                Kaa 22 March 2013 00: 50 New
                +2
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                from Russia synthetic drugs come to us

                It is silent because the main producer of synthetic drugs on the planet is China ... the joint can be both Russian and Kazakhstan.
                Quote: marshes
                I wanted to ask how coke and amphetamine are in Russia and then we get to

                Coke - mainly through the Odessa port, burned in tons, but according to international practice, around 10% are intercepted worldwide, amphetamine is Chinese.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 15: 35 New
                  +3
                  Almost no drugs come from China to KZ. The laws are very harsh there. Almost all of such chemistry is in European production, which comes through transit through Russia.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 33 New
          +2
          How does the Russian military-industrial complex relate to the repair of Kazakh military equipment. There are 22 Mi-26 helicopters (“cows”) in Kazakhstan, almost everyone is on the alert waiting for a complete repair and modernization. Do it only in the Russian Federation. Russia is not able to digest all this amount in a short time, and is ready to repair only ONE Mi-26 helicopter per year! Those. 20 years are needed to upgrade this entire park! At the same time, when the last spinner is repaired, the first repaired helicopters will already accumulate in the queue for modernization and repair. In total, two “cows” are flying, and another one has recently arrived for the next annual repair in Russia.
          Now it’s clear why the Kazakhs want Russia to go on to create additional capacities in this area? You and your resources will be freed up to repair your numerous equipment, and even create spare enterprises in a union state, where in which case you can always repair Russian equipment. Or do you think that Russia is now able to repair all available military equipment in one fell swoop ??? There is no corny money for this. And the Kazakhs are willing to pay. Fortunately, Kazakhs have more than enough money.
        3. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 21 March 2013 18: 38 New
          +3
          And who is actually against request ... ensure, while we are with the Israelis, Italians, Turks and Ukrainians, as Marek writes ... drinks
          So satisfied ??? hi
      3. Kaa
        Kaa 22 March 2013 01: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Kazakhstan can afford (financially) to cooperate with defense industry enterprises, both the United States and other foreign arms manufacturers.

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Mass migration of Slavs (usually virgin settlers) from the KZ began even then and intensified in the 80s.

        Well, then forget about a united Kazakhstan ... "After almost a year and a half after the events in Zhanaozen, where 15 people were killed by the Kazakh police’s riot of oil workers, the question of who provoked and benefited from this unrest remains open. quite natural social reasons for the Zhanaozen indignation, experts also mention the main strategic premise of the crisis in Mangistau - the desire of a certain part of the West Kazakhstan elites to secede from Astana: from obtaining autonomy rights and right up to the proclamation of an independent state on the shores of the Caspian Sea. According to Kazakhstan expert Mikhail Pak, the research results Obviously, they were ignored by official Astana, since the trends described by the "Strategy" ultimately led to the events in Zhanaozen. "At the moment, the transition of separatist sentiments in the west of Kazakhstan from the latent phase to a more active one has already taken place," says Pak. discard and religious component. Since Salafism is popular in western Kazakhstan, which promotes a return to “pure” Islam and has much in common with Wahhabism, it is not surprising that in recent years there have already been several reports of actions involving extremist religious groups from Atyrau and Aktyubinsk. One of the most active supporters of the idea that the west of Kazakhstan is about to explode is the leader of the Union of Muslims of Kazakhstan, Murat Telibekov. "If the situation of the population does not improve in the future, then Western Kazakhstan can become not only a hotbed of great social upheaval, but also an initiator of separatist aspirations “Western Kazakhstan will turn into an independent state if the policy of the center does not undergo significant changes.” At one time, in connection with the issue of Kazakhstan’s separatism, an unexpected idea was expressed that large oil concerns (for example, Chevron) support such outrage by the center among regional oil and gas clans. In support of this hypothesis it was said that if the leadership of independent Kazakhstan met the American and other multinational oil companies at the first stage of the development of the subsoil of the Caspian Sea, then later they began to pursue a tougher policy in relation to foreign partners.
        After the riots in Zhanaozen, the version of US involvement in what was happening surfaced again. It was said about the "American intelligence in the region", and about the "special operations of the United States" who want to change Nazarbayev. “Now in the territory of the Younger Zhuz the ideas of creating a state independent of Kazakhstan, typical for the 1990s, roam with new force. Especially popular is the assertion that Adays feed entire Kazakhstan, while they themselves are starving. ”
        - wrote the portal "Centrasia" .http: //alternathistory.org.ua/mladshii-zhuz-poyavitsya-li-na-beregak
        h-kaspiya-novoe-gosudarstvo
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 15: 59 New
          +2
          Kaa, with all due respect to your opinion, absolutely disagrees with your material.
          1) It is known who provoked the riots in Zhanaozen, and even the organizers do not hide this. This is the work of the fugitive oligarch Ablyazov.
          2) People who themselves began physically threatening the life and health of civilians and policemen were killed. Police first shot hundreds of rounds in the air. But the Kazakhs are not taken to fright. Extremists from among the "miners" began to beat policemen to death (for example, even the deputy head of the local police was beaten to a coma), began to set fire to the administrative buildings in which people were located, began to throw Molotov cocktails in the area where the railway trains with tanks were fuel, and began firing at the police from hunting and traumatic weapons. What remained of the policeman? Go home for tea? The local police did not have non-lethal means - this is a small provincial town, except for pistols and machine guns they had nothing. This was put to use. It is unfortunate that people died. For the whole country - this is a shock. We are brought up on the phrase "Kazakh Kazakh does not kill" and here it is. The authorities punished everyone - both police and extremists.
          3) About the independence of Western Kazakhstan - complete crap. Kazakhs, in spite of the fact that we love to gossip on the topic of childbirth, are a very monolithic nation. All Kazakhs are relatives to each other. And 99,9% of Kazakhs will not allow the thought of separation from the rest of the Kazakh people. Yes, residents of Western Kazakhstan often whine about the need to pay more attention to this region, but this is far from separatism. Just some non-Kazakh analysts want to wishful thinking.
          4) Murat Telibekov is considered a clown in Kazakhstan. Nobody takes him seriously at all, like his incomprehensible organization. You do not take Verka Serduchka seriously? Telibekov in Kazakhstan is on a par with her.
          5) On the connection of Chevron - generally nonsense, sucked out incomprehensibly from which finger. It is surprising that Masons and aliens have not yet been attributed. Chevron is so well settled in the KZ and does not particularly complain about anything. This is not even a hypothesis, it is frank speculation.
          6) The relationship between the US government and Ablyazov (and accordingly their impact on the Zhanaozen events) can still be discussed. I fully admit the idea that this was done with the tacit support of the United States. They really do not want them to continue their policy of integration of the countries of the former USSR. This is a separate issue. But here the state is conducting its work in order to minimize Washington’s influence on our political affairs. Yes, the Kazakhs themselves are not fools, and they perfectly understand that from America a friend is like sweetie from shit. My mother even calmly refers to the idea that a war with America is possible, which she recently surprised me very much)))) I called once after some news and asked: "When the war with America will be, what products will be in short supply? And then bye we will defeat them, suddenly something will not be delivered to us. So I'll buy it in advance ... "
          So, please do not listen to unfortunate analysts who do not know either the Kazakhs or the situation in the KZ, or home-grown clowns who are looking for any kind of information guide to light up on the air with their "there will be no winter."
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 14: 03 New
      +3
      Rennim
      1) What are the views on Kazakhstan towards NATO? And how do they differ from Russian relations with this organization?
      2) Technologies - Soviet by and large. Even if we consider them Russian, then Russia gets enough pluses - this is both financial profit and keeping Kazakhstan in the Russian arms field.
  5. elmi
    elmi 21 March 2013 13: 24 New
    +4
    Now, if Ukraine were attracted to such an alliance, it would be great
  6. kostella85
    kostella85 21 March 2013 14: 49 New
    +1
    By the way, the Kazakh military announced the introduction of the UAZ Patriot and UAZ Patriot Pikup!
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 21 March 2013 18: 34 New
      +2
      In Kostanay, if I am not mistaken, they collect
      And in Astana, "Toyota" more, special vehicles yes .
  7. Nomad
    Nomad 21 March 2013 21: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Finally, there is a normal minister in Russia who understands that one cannot reject the long-term requests of Kazakhs for the production of military equipment

    Maybe the fact is that he is a Tuvan? Seriously, Marek, it’s necessary for you to create a government in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan in order to fight at the state level with chauvinistic myths and misconceptions, which, unfortunately, are so widespread among our main ally.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 23: 20 New
      +4
      It’s not that he is a Tuvan or a Slav. The fact is that he always hurts his soul for his work. And he has no problems with brains and patriotism. Aman Tuleyev is a Kazakh, but he is lobbying the interests of his Kemerovo coal enterprises against the interests of Kazakhstan. So it's not a matter of nationality. Although, it plays a role, of course. By default, he cannot look at non-Russians as “Papuans,” which some Russian politicians sometimes sin.
  8. Nomad
    Nomad 21 March 2013 22: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Is it nothing that the Kazakhs are Mongoloids, and somehow the aria in the Kazakh is not easy to see? The question is what did you have there: assimilation or what else.

    In general, Aryan (in the scientific sense of the word) genes are carried by all the peoples of the Great Steppe and their neighbors, including Kazakhs and Russians. So the debate about who the biggest Aryan is stupidity. Generally speaking, the root "ar" means pure, so any person who lives, thinks, and acts in a divine way, that is, a person who is spiritually pure, has the moral right to call himself Aryan. And the growth and color of hair is Adolf Alloizovich’s ravings. By the way, the Kazakh words "ar" - honor, "hot" - light - of the same root as the name of the ancient Russian god of the Sun, "Yarilo".
  9. Kazbek
    Kazbek 21 March 2013 22: 08 New
    +2
    And for the Semipalatinsk test site, you can also say thank you. We ruined the floor of the territory with our training grounds. You also cooperate with NATO, if you were screaming if there were enough parasites to feed, we would live like in Europe and live better.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 23: 24 New
      +3
      12% of the territory of the giant Kazakh SSR was occupied by military training grounds (including nuclear ones). This allotted land is larger than many European and Asian countries. Here are the "hot" heads who are accustomed to shouting: "We have built Disneyland for you!", Rarely they say: "We have built ungrateful nuclear test sites for you!" And then in their heads the whole picture of an ideal world will break.
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 22 March 2013 00: 57 New
        -1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        "We have built ungrateful nuclear test sites for you!" And then in their heads the whole picture of an ideal world will break.

        Quote: Kazbek
        And for the Semipalatinsk test site, you can also say thank you. They ruined the floor of the territory with their training grounds

        By the way, they lived in one country ... about the explosions on Novaya Zemlya. Apparently you are aware of this, but in the Donbass, Western Siberia? We even Natsik stopped hysteria about Chernobyl. There would be no training grounds, now we have in the role of lords, you would have cowboys in the role of buys ... you still forgot about the islands in the Aral Sea infected with plague and anthrax ... Only here is something the people of Nevada about nuclear testing do not stutter ... but they were there unmeasured ... also Russian?
        1. Beck
          Beck 22 March 2013 12: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Kaa
          Only here is something that the inhabitants of Nevada about nuclear testing do not stutter ... and they were unmeasured there ... also Russian?


          This is how to look. There is the state of Nevada and there is the great desert of Nevada. It was in this desert that they blew up, taking into account everything and the wind rose, and the time of year, and the temperature regime. People were warned, instructed, provided with the necessary equipment for all kinds of things. The Americans carried out the most dangerous explosions on the atoll islands, lost in the vast expanses of the Pacific Ocean.

          In the first years, no one warned at the Semipalatinsk training ground, and then there was already nobody to warn. People on their own, leaving everything basic, fled from the vicinity of the hilly mountains of Deligen. There were also blind. And they were massively irradiated, which the official authorities did not recall until the years of perestroika, but, on the contrary, hid such statistics. And now there are gene disorders.

          Quote: Kaa
          There would be no landfills, now we have in the role of sirs, you would have cowboys in the role of bays


          Even in adolescence and youth, I could not find excuses for constructing a nuclear testing ground on inhabited lands. Even before the explosion of the Soviet nuclear tsar bomb on Novaya Zemlya, I came to a simple logical conclusion, looking at the map that the most “suitable” place to create a nuclear testing ground is the remote, deserted islands of the Arctic Ocean.

          Quote: Kaa
          you still about islands in the Aral Sea, infected with plague and anthrax have forgotten.


          DO NOT FORGET. For about ten years I worked in the 80s in the city of Aralsk, on the shores of the Aral Sea. The fighting strains of the plague and anthrax were strictly controlled, so I did not hear about their leak. But just in case, in Aralsk and on the opposite shore of the sea, in Chelkar, there were reinforced Sanitary and Epidemiological Detachments, numbering 70-100 specialized vehicles, and this is much more than the prescribed staffing table.

          One, two, three, in the summer, massive outbreaks of viral hepatitis occurred. Hepatitis is among the top 10 causes of death in the world. Contagiousness, contagiousness, exceeds contagiousness of HIV by 100 times. For 40 thousand of the population of the town of Aralsk, there were up to 5000 patients, with each outbreak. Administrative buildings and schools were assigned to hospitals. Special teams of doctors came from Moscow and Leningrad. The prevalence of the disease was due to the fact that hepatitis viruses, these outbreaks, were very difficult to treat using traditional methods and appropriate drugs. Those who survived, who had a stronger body survived. First of all, children died. Of course, I do not know the statistics of death during these outbreaks.

          Popular rumor said that this hepatitis virus originates from the Renaissance island (what a mockery) in the Aral Sea - the USSR Bacterological Weapons Test Center. Like this virus is a special combat strain, so it does not respond much to treatment. And guesses were built whether this strain accidentally left the laboratory, or whether it was a test of its fighting qualities.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 16: 06 New
            +3
            By the way, the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan has repeatedly asked the Russian side to provide information on exactly which bacteriological experiments were carried out on Revival Island. Russia refused to give info. It was at my own peril and risk to re-explore the island in order to understand what had accumulated there.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 16: 03 New
          +4
          Kaa, so what kind of Kazakh will argue with the fact that they lived in ONE country and did everything together? I write this only in response to numerous posts on the site in which some narrow-minded people constantly write about "Russians built everything for you." Tame your provocateurs, and not a single Kazakh will answer them. Tell them that there was one people, there was a common power, one country, and not just “Russians”.
  10. Nomad
    Nomad 21 March 2013 22: 14 New
    +3
    Quote: baltika-18
    He still gives Russia a lot of things ..... For example, the transit of Afghan heroin. Why are the borders zero? Do Russia and Kazakhstan have a single customs space, the borders are symbolic.

    We have had a single customs space since 2012, and heroin even before that went to Russia. Where did the Russian border guards look? Maybe enough claims to the Kazakhs from the finger and from other places suck?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 March 2013 23: 26 New
      +4
      And why no one recalls that the Tajik border (through which the Afghan "gerych" goes) was largely guarded and guarded by Russian troops. Or Russian border guards - a model of integrity?
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 22 March 2013 01: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        the Tajik border (through which the Afghan "gerych" goes) was largely guarded and guarded by Russian troops.

        "In the early 90s, the detachment’s area was at the epicenter of military events. The DIVT detachments, with the support of the Afghan mujahideen, went to direct clashes, trying to destroy the Russian border outposts. On the night of May 29-30, 1993, militants attacked the 11th border outpost of the detachment. The defenses and the outpost building were completely destroyed, 3 border guards were killed and 4 border guards were killed. Together, the 10th and 11th outposts, supported by 2 Mi-24 helicopters and Grad rocket launchers, repelled the attack.
        On the night of July 13 of the same year, 14 groups of militants totaling up to 250 people, with the support of the Afghan Mujahideen, attacked 12 detachment border outposts, captured the southern part of the town, and mined roads. Reserves of the detachment and support groups could not come to the aid on time. The border guards took a fierce battle with superior enemy forces. Having exhausted his defense capabilities during the day, Lieutenant A. Merzlikin Withdrew from the battle 18 surviving border guards to a meeting with the reserve of the detachment 22 border guards of the outpost and 3 servicemen 201 MSD were killed. Only in the evening, by the fire of Grad installations, bombing and assault strikes of combat helicopters and units of 149 MSP 201 MSD, the enemy was destroyed. 6 border guards were awarded the title of Hero of the Russian Federation, 29 border guards were awarded the Order of Courage, 17 - with the medal “For Courage”. On November 1, 1993, by order of the Ministry of Security, 12 outposts were named after 25 heroes. In August 1994, the Mujahideen repeated the attack on 12 outposts. As a result of the battle, the attack was repelled. The title of Hero of the Russian Federation was awarded to 5 people, 2 of them posthumously.
        Drug trafficking from Afghanistan passes through a detachment site. The largest consignments of drugs were detained here. The amount of drugs seized is estimated in tons. The detachment is at the forefront of the fight against the international drug business. In 2000, one of the largest batches of heroin 154,4 kg was detained and destroyed.
        Since 2005, the border with Afghanistan has been guarded by the national border troops of the Republic of Tajikistan. "Http://pogranec.ru/showthread.php?t=19471
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Russian border guards - a model of integrity?
        With this. perhaps I agree, given the foregoing.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 16: 14 New
          +1
          I know well about the fighting in the 90s on the Tajik border. one of the dead Kazakh soldiers in April 1995 was buried with a flag that belonged to me personally.
          I'm talking about something else - that the Russian section of the Tajik border also missed drugs. intentionally or not, but the presence of Russian border guards did not play a special role in curbing drug trafficking. otherwise we would not have so much rubbish. moreover, if Russian border guards are so incorruptible, then where does Russia get so much smuggling and prohibited goods brought in from all sides of the border - be it the Far East, the European border or the border with South Ossetia.
  11. Kazbek
    Kazbek 21 March 2013 23: 41 New
    +3
    The Russians are all to blame, but not them.
  12. Kazbek
    Kazbek 22 March 2013 08: 51 New
    +2
    Kaa, why then do you have to reproach us with virginity? They didn’t say who owes whom and we won’t.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 22 March 2013 16: 14 New
      +2
      Kazbek, that's what I'm talking about. The Russians themselves begin to consider who owes whom to whom, and when you answer them, they are offended. There is no need to start a conversation on this topic, then there will be no "Kazakh answer".
  13. Dmitriy85
    Dmitriy85 22 March 2013 16: 06 New
    +3
    And we buy from NATO and we buy from Russia)) And rightly so. Recently, the first S-295 aircraft arrived.