UAZ vs. HAVAL: Opinion of the Ministry of Defense

UAZ Patriot car

Russian Chinese

Not just UAZ. This is roughly how one can characterize the attempts of the Russian Ministry of Defense to find an alternative to the SUV from Ulyanovsk. Let's not judge the military leaders too harshly - an analogue was sought even before the special military operation, when the guidelines were somewhat different. At least one comparative test became known from the page of the magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation". The material on the results of a multi-month comparison of the Chinese HAVAL H9 SUV and the Russian UAZ "Patriot" was published in August 2022. The authors write that

"during 2020-2021, the Federal State Budgetary Institution "21 Research and Testing Institute of Military Automotive Equipment" of the Russian Ministry of Defense, located in the city of Bronnitsy in the Moscow Region, conducted comparative tests and trial operation of UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot and HAVAL H9 vehicles."

First, let's define why the Chinese HAVAL became a sparring partner for our Patriot. The point is in the localization of production of this large vehicle in the Tula region. A rather large enterprise with an area of ​​more than 230 hectares was built by 2019, and at first it was not entirely clear why China was investing in this project. Until 2022, the success of Chinese car brands in Russia was very modest, but the plant was built immediately for the production of 300 thousand cars per year. The Chinese seemed to have foreseen the future and after the start of the SVO, they found themselves in a very privileged position. All competitors without exception left the market, and HAVAL SUVs have consistently occupied the top lines of sales ratings since then. In the fight against the invasion of the Chinese from abroad, subsidies from the state for organizing production within the country help.

Car HAVAL H9

For a comparative test with the Russian Patriot, the flagship of the production range, the heavy frame SUV HAVAL H9, was selected by order of the Ministry of Defense. Currently, the vehicle is out of production and replaced by a new generation model. The level of localization of the SUV hardly exceeded 30 percent, which did not prevent the military from considering the H9 as an alternative to the Patriot. In fairness, it is worth noting that the article "Results of a comparative assessment of HAVAL H9 and UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot vehicles" does not say a word about the purpose of comparing the two vehicles. But there is such a conclusion:

"From the point of view of technical support, the HAVAL H9 vehicle will require the organization of special points (service centers) in the Armed Forces for their maintenance and repair in the Central and Eastern Military Districts, as well as the organization of their supply with spare parts and operating (consumable) materials - special oils, lubricants and hydraulic fluids, filters; the issue of training specialists in the repair and maintenance of these vehicles for the network of specialized services will require a solution; the selection of full-fledged domestic substitutes for all operating materials used on these vehicles can only be carried out after conducting appropriate long-term special studies and tests."

Based on this text, the Ministry of Defense was definitely considering accepting the Chinese HAVAL H9 for supply. How was it planned to ensure the repair of an imported vehicle if all the key units were from China? The epic story of Defense Minister Serdyukov, who accepted the light armored vehicle "Lynx" into service, which was actually the Italian Iveco LMV, immediately comes to mind. The vehicle is certainly not bad, but it is an imported vehicle from a NATO country. The result is obvious - "Lynx" has practically ceased to be encountered in the SVO. They were clearly not destroyed, but simply withdrawn from the front, so as not to leave scrap metal without spare parts.

UAZ or HAVAL?

After analyzing the article in the magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", several questions immediately arise. The first is which modification of the Chinese SUV was chosen? In Russia, three versions with different power plants were produced - two gasoline (218 hp and 245 hp) and one diesel with a twin turbocharger with a capacity of 190 hp. Most likely, it was the diesel car that was chosen as an opponent for the Russian "Patriot". This is indicated by several nuances in the article and the wide prevalence of diesel HAVAL H9 on the Russian market. And the diesel itself is much more convenient for military use. But the unit of the Chinese cannot be called simple - just look at the BorgWarner R2S twin-turbocharger.

For reference, the automatic transmission of the H9 is very good and quite durable, only the German one from Zahnradfabrik. The second question to the organizers of the comparison is who decided that the "Chinese" has anything to do with military service? It has only a frame structure in common with army SUVs. Otherwise, it is a purely civilian vehicle, unlike the originally army UAZ. Despite the fact that the "Patriot" is a relatively new development, the car takes its roots from the legendary UAZ-469 model of 1972. The HAVAL company was founded in 2013 as a subsidiary of Great Wall Motors and has never been involved in army vehicles. Nevertheless, in Bronnitsy, two cars met in a comparative test. A few words about the domestic "Patriot". The SUV has a long name UAZ-3163-485-40, and it seems to be the best configuration of its time, "Expedition Maximum", with a manual transmission and a 150-horsepower gasoline engine.

Now let's answer the main question - who won the comparative test? As always, everything turned out to be very difficult. According to the report:

"Of the 28 tested main indicators, the UAZ Patriot vehicle outperforms the HAVAL H9 vehicle in 10 ways, the HAVAL H9 vehicle outperforms the UAZ Patriot vehicle in 10 ways, and 8 indicators are equivalent for both vehicles."

It would seem to be parity, but there are nuances. First, neither the Patriot nor the HAVAL fully meet the requirements for military vehicles of the Russian Ministry of Defense. With the H9, everything is clear - it should not, but the management of the Ulyanovsk Automobile Plant should consider this a pebble in its garden. Almost everyone who is fighting is now talking about the problems of UAZs in the SVO zone. The toughest test for SUVs was a 20-kilometer run in extremely difficult conditions. It was at this point that the cars fell apart. The critical point was a 15-kilometer run, after which malfunctions descended like a horn of plenty. The most problematic parts of the Chinese were electrical equipment, engine, body and fuel system. Moreover, electrics accounted for up to 61 percent of failures. Almost all units and assemblies of the Patriot failed, but the wiring was also the most vulnerable - up to 36 percent of failures.

If we consider the performance characteristics, HAVAL turned out to be the best in acceleration dynamics, but it braked worse and seriously lagged behind in terms of profile cross-country ability. The latter is not surprising - the Chinese with its overhangs and ground clearance will be more modest than the "Patriot". Interestingly, in terms of the value of support cross-country ability on viscous soils, both cars are approximately the same, but do not reach the requirements of army GOSTs. Perhaps they simply did not have enough toothed rubber on the wheels. The behavior of the tested cars in critical driving modes does not reach the values ​​​​of the standards. First of all, we are talking about controllability and predictability of behavior when going around an obstacle and then returning to its lane. It is better known as the "moose test".

Distribution of failures and damages by systems of UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot vehicles. Source: Korobeynikov A. A., Zavyalov S. A., Kudryaeva N. S. Results of a comparative assessment of HAVAL H9 and UAZ-3163-485-40 PATRIOT vehicles. Magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", No. 8, 2022

List of failures and damages identified during the OE of HAVAL H9 vehicles. Source: Korobeynikov A. A., Zavyalov S. A., Kudryaeva N. S. Results of a comparative assessment of HAVAL H9 and UAZ-3163-485-40 "PATRIOT" vehicles. Magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", No. 8, 2022

The Chinese from the Tula region is predictably more comfortable than his counterpart:

"In terms of ride smoothness and vibration load at the driver's workplace, the HAVAL H9 is superior to the UAZ Patriot."

H9 is more demanding in terms of quality and frequency of maintenance, which cannot be called an advantage in military conditions. The Russian jeep won in an unexpected discipline – the level of illumination of the driver and passenger workplace. The vehicles are not suitable for mounting night vision devices, and do not comply with GOST in terms of IR thermal visibility. HAVAL had a serious failure with frost resistance:

"The Chinese SUV is not suitable for operation at an ambient temperature of -25 ± 2°C, but the UAZ provides comfortable conditions in the driver's, commander's and passenger's workplaces at this air temperature."

Results of the analysis of the military-technical level of UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot and HAVAL H9 vehicles. Source: Korobeynikov A. A., Zavyalov S. A., Kudryaeva N. S. Results of a comparative assessment of HAVAL H9 and UAZ-3163-485-40 PATRIOT vehicles. Magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", No. 8, 2022

An analysis of a car for its suitability for military service is not a test drive from another blogger, where acceleration dynamics and interior materials come to the fore. According to the standards of specialists from Bronnitsy,

"The main indicators that determine the combat readiness and combat capability of military units and subdivisions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are mobility, reliability, readiness, survivability, agility and operational safety."

After summing up the results of many months of testing, the UAZ Patriot emerged as the winner. This does not at all eliminate the need for a large-scale modernization of the vehicle and an increase in the quality of the equipment produced.

Based on materials from: Korobeynikov A. A., Zavyalov S. A., Kudryaeva N. S. Results of a comparative assessment of HAVAL H9 and UAZ-3163-485-40 "PATRIOT" vehicles. Magazine "Material and Technical Support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", No. 8, 2022.

Comments

[Sergey Khatylaev]

Author, look at the review of this Haval, all the components there are international from Europe.
This is a complicated piece of shit. It only looks like a Prado.

[Leshak]

Result: Of two evils, we chose domestic.

[djinn_82]

If only it were domestic, but half of the UAZ is made of foreign components, and even European ones

[Victor Alien]

Well, if UAZ had as much import as you say, then its conveyor wouldn't work when AvtoVAZ stopped due to sanctions. The problem is only in small details like plastic instead of bronze, the timing chain needs to be double-row. According to the designer, the engine is still excellent, both in power and reliability with the right components. The ZF gearbox can be produced in the same place where they make automatic transmissions for Kamaz - the car should be in the army without unnecessary electronics. The chassis of the all-wheel drive Sobol Next would be ideal for a different body. The boom frame has a different one - and if it is closed there... There should be an open side member without unnecessary cavities. It was not for nothing that Bu immediately rejected the Gazelle option with a monocoque body. In general, the army needs a light armored car from the very beginning - without reference to existing models. Class 3 armor is needed from the very beginning. One person could design it, but they won't let him. Even two. Although there are many more people who can design than we have factories.

[Alexfly]

Need an indestructible diesel engine, the same suspension, preferably a body that won't rot in two seasons.
Such dreams do not come true in business, so until the state invests money, there will be no one to ask.

[Yuriy Filatov]

There was a diesel engine on the UAZ. They didn't appreciate it... because the people who buy UAZs are not rich and almost immediately convert them to gas.

[barbos]

We need an indestructible diesel engine, the same suspension, and preferably a body that won’t rot in two seasons.

on all counts not to our car manufacturers.

[barbos]

I will put the comment in a frame. If I suddenly disappear, it means my wife saw it and understood it incorrectly (or correctly).

[BlackTiger74]

Change an SUV to a ......... "SUV" ???

[Reklastik]

That's right - it's better to drive around Moscow in a SUV than in a UAZ. Moscow's military know a thing or two about this.

[nazgul-ishe]

Today we are friends, but tomorrow? How many factories have left? We need our own and reliable.

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: nazgul-ishe

You need your own and reliable

And right down to the very last screw.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Dutchman Michel

Quote: nazgul-ishe

You need your own and reliable

And right down to the very last screw.

In UAZ all the bolts are Chinese, imagine...

[Per se.]

Quote: SovAr238A

all bolts are chinese

So, now there are also "galoshes" from China.

[nazgul-ishe]

Quote: SovAr238A
All the bolts are Chinese. So, now even the "galoshes" are from China.
But from our rubber.

[Per se.]

Quote: nazgul-ishe

But from our rubber.

Russia now has two new allies - oil and gas... We can say that at least from our raw materials (or on our raw materials).

[Alexander Odintsov]

There are problems, that's clear. But we need to invest money in upgrading the UAZ and creating a new model, and not feed China. Why are they putting us on the Chinese needle again, now? Rosatom is the world leader in nuclear technology, and the complexity of producing cars is much simpler. All this is liberal policy, they are putting us on imports.

[Egg]

Quote from BlacTiger74

Change an SUV to a ......... "SUV" ???

It's hard to call the UAZ Patriot an SUV anymore, the plastic body kit, lack of mounting points for rack jacks and the high-revving engine scream about it... and you can't really get into the cabin in boots.

[BlackTiger74]

Of course, I haven't ridden a Patriot, but at least it's something!!! ......... It's a pity that we stopped producing the UAZ-469, because for military needs we don't have any SUVs of this class AT ALL!!!

[Neo-9947]

It's a pity that the replacement for 469 never arrived. Before throwing something away, you need to find a replacement for it.

[Yuriy Filatov]

Don't talk about the plastic body kit of the UAZ! It's awesome!!! It's the best thing they've done for the UAZ. I'm ready to kiss the engineer who covered the UAZ with plastic along the bottom and all over the front! And at the same time retained the ability to install a winch! If you hit a stump, the UAZ bumper can turn out and remain intact, and if it's torn off, you don't have to take apart half the car. Yes, it's not cheap as an element, but it sits on 4 brackets, 4 bolts and two latches. Moreover, the UAZ front wing is a consumable with a bolted connection! If you bother, you can buy plastic ones painted in the color of the body
And if you think that you can move stones with an iron muzzle, then you are very much mistaken.
So the UAZ body kit is the best thing it has.

[Egg]

Quote: Yuri Filatov

with an iron muzzle you can move stones,

stones or not stones, but they crush small trees, bushes... and even scratch against tall grass...
and it breaks down easily, especially in frosty weather.

[Yuriy Filatov]

This bumper flattens grass, but it is highly not recommended to climb small trees, after all, this is not an armored personnel carrier or a 5-ton Tiger with protection for the entire bottom, in order to flatten trees, you need to have 5 millimeters of metal on the flattener, and no one provides such functionality from civilian equipment - according to technical regulations, this is prohibited

[ANB]

. you need to have about 5 millimeters of metal on the presser

On my old Pajero the bumper was made of about 5 mm profile. I periodically scraped off the paint, then went over it with a brush and that's it.

[Bad_gr]

We've come to this: a car that is intended for use, including in the Army, is compared to a crossover. And the worst thing is that the crossover meets many of the military's requirements better than the UAZ.

[nazgul-ishe]

Comfortable though. A LOAF, like 66-pensioners. Officials don't drive them.

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: Bad_gr

And what’s most disgusting is that the SUV meets many military requirements better than the UAZ.

This is all because the SUV generals need SUVs. Remember how Pasha-Mercedes switched from the "Chaika" to the "Mercedes", explaining that it was allegedly inconvenient to place equipment for permanent communication in the "Chaika"

[Per se.]

Quote: Dutchman Michel

Remember how Pasha-Mercedes switched from a "Chaika" to a "Mercedes"

Under Postnikov, the T-90 was criticized and the Leopard was praised. What's surprising? VAZ refused Perm hydraulic pushers (Chinese ones are cheaper), the production shop was closed. What if it turns out to be cheaper to buy cartridges in China? "Import substitution"...

[ARIONkrsk]

Quote: Bad_gr

We've come to this: a car that is intended for use, including in the Army, is compared to a crossover. And the worst thing is that the crossover meets many of the military's requirements better than the UAZ.

Parquet machines for parquet generals.

[Neo-9947]

UAZ is not a car for generals, that's for sure.
The General is a Volga (a Mercedes in today's terms).

[Iris]

In the USSR Armed Forces, the division commander had two service cars - UAZ and Volga. It is clear what for and why. Today in Moscow, generals are driven by Camry and BMW-730. despite numerous prohibitions, denials, etc. Remember what car came for the chemical warfare chief? There is also an interesting parking lot at the 3rd house on Frunzenskaya...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Bad_gr

We've come to this: a car that is intended for use, including in the Army, is compared to a crossover. And the worst thing is that the crossover meets many of the military's requirements better than the UAZ.

The Patriot is not a military vehicle.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: SovAr238A

The Patriot is not a military vehicle.

When registering a car, do I need to register it at the military registration and enlistment office?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Bad_gr

Quote: SovAr238A

The Patriot is not a military vehicle.

When registering a car, do I need to register it at the military registration and enlistment office?

Not for a long time. It happens automatically.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: SovAr238A

The Patriot is not a military vehicle.

Quote: Bad_gr

When registering a car, do I need to register it at the military registration and enlistment office?

Quote: SovAr238A

Not for a long time. It happens automatically.

Thanks for the info, didn't know that.
But in any case, if he is registered with the military registration and enlistment office, it means that the Army has plans for him, and in case of force majeure, they will use him in the military structure.

[Yuriy Filatov]

Yes, the Patriot has never been an army vehicle. Since the time of Simbir, the Ulyanovsk people have tried to protect it as much as possible. Because the military and civilians have very different ideas about the necessary things in a car.

[Konnick]

“From the point of view of technical support, the HAVAL H9 vehicle will require the organization of special points (service centers) in the Armed Forces for their maintenance and repair in the Central and Eastern military districts, as well as the organization of their supply with spare parts and...

And for this it was necessary to conduct tests and write articles??? Here it is, the sawing up...
Where were you before when, at the behest of the oligarch Shvetsov, a kaleidoscope of cramming imported engines and gearboxes into a utilitarian car began... they turned a normal car into who knows what...

[Dedok]

And for this it was necessary to conduct tests and write articles??? Here it is, the sawing up...

yes, that's right, but I liked this part:

The critical point was the 15 thousand kilometer mileage, after which the malfunctions descended as if from a cornucopia. The most problematic in the Chinese were the electrical equipment, the engine, body and fuel system.

and what does the body have to do with it? - it's on the frame, isn't it????
Apparently, in this research institute, the "scientists" have become cardboard... (meaning with cardboard crusts confirming their academic titles)

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Dedok

and what does the body have to do with it? - it's on the frame, isn't it????

maybe we're talking about rust?

[Dedok]

maybe we're talking about rust?

so they wrote:

The critical point was a mileage of 15 thousand kilometers, after which malfunctions descended like a horn of plenty.

This couldn't even happen on a Moskvich 408... and the body there was "black"...

[Arisaka]

Given that the speed of Patriot's decay is the talk of the town.

[Alf]

Quote: Konnick

Where were you before?

Back then, everyone was in on it...

[Yuriy Filatov]

There's no need for this whining about "cramming into a utilitarian car."
The UAZ Patriot never claimed to be a military SUV. It was originally a civilian vehicle.
And it must be said that in 2017, the Ulyanovsk people brought the UAZ almost to perfection, creating a kind of comfortable station wagon (no joke, I won’t trade my 17 UAZ for a new one, but when a 6-speed manual transmission appears, I’ll study the issue of replacing the five-speed one) Which, like any station wagon, is lousy in everything

[DO]

The real benefit of these tests for the army is the identification of UAZ shortcomings, provided that the plant will eliminate them.
Well, haval, of course, is for generals. Not to show off in a UAZ.

[Arisaka]

Judging by the picture, the Haval has a problem only with the wiring, but the Patriot is one big problem. But this is not news.

[avia12005]

The chicks of Serdyukov's nest grew up and took up leadership positions.

[smart fellow]

Have you tried comparing the UAZ Patriot with the SUVs used by the Chinese army?

[Dart]

There is a Chinese company BJ, its products are growing just from our UAZs. They supply to the army of the PRC.
And is represented in Russia.
But no, the lobby from Havala managed to pull the wool over our generals’ eyes, as if they had never heard of BJ.
And in vain, the devices there are certainly more suitable than the H9 SUV.

[Amateur]

managed to blur the eyes

More like "grease the palm"

[Amateur]

Why did you compare it to the semi-SUV "Patriot" and not to the "Hunter" (what a stupid name for the descendant of the 469)?

[faiver]

Hunter is the same sh... as Patriot...

[air wolf]

Hunter won't carry as much as Patriot and Bukhanka

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Amateur

Why did you compare it to the semi-SUV "Patriot" and not to the "Hunter" (what a stupid name for the descendant of the 469)?

And all our names are stupid and all have no Russian roots.
By the way, the introduction of Anglicisms greatly influences the change in the mentality of the youth, which is what the Anglo-Saxons are trying to achieve. They are playing the long game.

[faiver]

come up with a Russian replacement for the word "tank"

[zxc15682]

Tank. comments are too short

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: faiver

come up with a Russian replacement for the word "tank"

Oh, is the Hunter car really made in Britain?
And the office was also created in Britain, since they called it an office?
No need to be clever. Although, maybe you will like it if they start calling you Andre or Andrew, or Andris, or Andreas, or Andrzej?

[faiver]

You are evil, I will leave you.....

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: faiver

You are evil, I will leave you.....

Oh, don't leave me. From now on I'll be white and fluffy. I promise. Just speak to me in Russian.

[Amateur]

What do you mean - a liquid container or a self-propelled vehicle on tracks with a gun?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Amateur

What do you mean - a liquid container or a self-propelled vehicle on tracks with a gun?

I believe that zxc15682 simply meant to translate the English word into Russian.
By the way, the British called this, the newest weapon at that time, a tank only for reasons of secrecy. But it came into common use.

[Amateur]

I believe that

Excuse me, Dear Sir! But how do you know what zxc15682 meant? I "believe" that from nowhere. But still, I would like to hear the opinion of the original source and not the speculations of "third parties".

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Amateur

Sorry

I'm not sorry.

Quote: faiver

come up with a Russian replacement for the word "tank"

Quote: zxc15682

Tank.

What else can we assume, knowing the translation of the English word?
Present to the public your answer to the question faiver(a)

[Xnumx vis]

You can call it that. Armored car. Armor. And if you use this word, you will quickly get used to it. The Russian language is rich. But there are also plenty of lovers of foreign language in Russia.. Even too much... Now explain to me the word combination - Atmospheric place? My friend, a sailor, a former first mate of a large anti-submarine ship, began to explain to me that this is a place where cyclones and anticyclones may possibly originate. That is, a weather concept... And a girl running by told him. This is a bar (a snake pit) that she really likes, she feels good there... But she doesn't have enough brains to call this snake pit a spiritual place, and it is not fashionable to say so.. That's it!

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: 30 vis

But she doesn't have the brains to call this snake pit a spiritual place.

what does brains have to do with it? this is youth slang, if she comes to the university and starts talking about azm, vedi, boobie - they will immediately take her to the madhouse.. or let's start with renaming words - president, minister, parliament, federation, deputy, institute, university, rifle, dagger and thousands of others.. or let's make a language police? the older generation, always didn't like the slang and speech of the youth - it was, is and will be.. stop grumbling..

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

the older generation always didn't like the slang and speech of the youth - it was, is and will be... stop grumbling...

Who's grumbling? Funny... Atmospheric location... Ah! And a soulful place? Or here's another glamping... clever, subtle, foreign, soulful... lavender raf... ah ah ah... But essentially a town made of planks. In the forest. Atmospheric location... .. Boo ga ga. You can pass for smart. And youth slang is slang.. Yes, in our time there was hippie, cool, They also had their own words.

[ycuce234-san]

Quote: 30 vis

It's a bar (a snake pit) that she really likes, she feels good there...

An ordinary information bubble, which is individual for each person due to experience.
I remembered a classic: Wilhelm Hauff was a storyteller and, due to his specific experience, called the dreams of his hero in the “spiritual place” nothing less than phantasmagorias (Wilhelm Hauff - Phantasmagorias in the Bremen Wine Cellar).

- Well, in that case, lock me here in the room, put a heavy lock on the door so that I can’t get out, and wake me up at six in the morning and collect the money owed to me.

[alexoff]

And armor is a German word! The Russian language is rich because it absorbed all possible languages ​​and used them when necessary. But, for example, Ukrainian has fewer borrowings, and therefore sounds like a child with a small vocabulary trying to come up with a name for something new. And so gvintokryl and nebokrai appear

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from alexoff

And armor is a German word! The Russian language is rich because it absorbed all possible languages ​​and used them when necessary. But, for example, Ukrainian has fewer borrowings, and therefore sounds like a child with a small vocabulary trying to come up with a name for something new. And so gvintokryl and nebokrai appear

I doubt that the armor is of German, Gothic origin. Also the field of BRani, In the Little Russian language there are such words as zbroya, ozbroenny, the root of br. There are many towns and settlements throughout the great and mighty Russia. Like Bronnitsa, and the like. Perhaps the origin is from Sanskrit, the ancient proto-language of all Indo-European peoples. The Germans have armored troops called panzer...Panzerwaffe

[alexoff]

And there is a word "brustver". Guess whose. And what do you doubt - well, try Google. In general, fencing off a language from borrowings is typical for decadent societies. Enemies are everywhere, attacking with their words! It would be necessary to return to the original, homespun words, eradicate all sorts of Greek names, and at the same time start praying to Perun at the temple again

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from alexoff

In general, fencing off language from borrowings is typical of decadent societies. Enemies are everywhere, attacking with their words! We should return to the original, homespun words, eradicate all Greek names, and at the same time start praying to Perun at the temple again

What is it about the name Svetlana, Lyudmila, Yaroslav, Vladimir, Vadim that you don't like? We are not talking about fencing off the native language from borrowings from other cultures, but about the ability to build your speech in your native language. Rich and beautiful. The fact that a person pronounces complicated foreign words that are hard to understand for most people does not characterize him as educated and well-mannered.

[alexoff]

Foreign words are expropriated to enrich their own language. They are given prefixes and endings, turned into verbs and adjectives, and completely Russified. Unnecessary words are quickly forgotten and do not catch on. The English have a tank and a cistern - one word, but we do not. And armor is called protection, not a tank to boot. An educated person knows a bunch of synonyms and understands the differences, an uneducated one will distort old words. Some, of course, show off. I know one professor, he started talking about "x-ray diffraction" during a lecture, I was simply torn apart that he could not say "roentgen diffraction", which is actually a Russian phrase, and not just an English one stupidly inserted into a sentence.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: faiver

come up with a Russian replacement for the word "tank"

You can call it that. Armored car. Armor.

[zxc15682]

Box. The comment is too short.

[Alf]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And all our names are stupid and all have no Russian roots.

[2 Level Advisor]

The word patriot comes from the Greek πατριός - "fatherly" through the French patriote - "compatriot"... a non-Russian root... here is Bratr - more epic...

[Alf]

Relative is not cool... In short.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Here's Brother - more epic..

Actually, this is a brother.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Alf

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And all our names are stupid and all have no Russian roots.

And why is the name of the Russian car written in Latin? What is the need or purpose of this?

[Alf]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: Alf

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And all our names are stupid and all have no Russian roots.

And why is the name of the Russian car written in Latin? What is the need or purpose of this?

You are not advanced!!! (Shchyutka). Somehow I came across one, God forgive me, "explanation" - Like, we sell these cars in Europe, well, so as not to produce two different nameplates...

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Alf

Somehow I came across one, God forgive me, "explanation" - Like, we sell these cars in Europe, well, so as not to produce two different nameplates...

It is impossible to come up with a more idiotic explanation for this “explanation”.
All this Latin, these Anglicisms in everyday life will still come back to haunt us bitterly.
This cannot be taken so lightly.
I am not against using foreign words, I am against using them if there is a Russian equivalent - kontora - office, etc.

[Alf]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

It is impossible to come up with a more idiotic explanation for this “explanation”.

Yes, who argues ...

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

These Anglicisms will come back to haunt us in everyday life.

They're already calling out to each other.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Amateur

Why did you compare it to the semi-SUV "Patriot" and not to the "Hunter" (what a stupid name for the descendant of the 469)?

What is the difference between a Patriot and a Hunter?
The chassis is the same, the engine and transmission are the same.
The ECUs are the same.

[Million]

A machine for war must be simple, cheap, reliable, easy to repair and domestic.
Today's generals seem to think differently.

[Grits]

Quote: Million

A machine for war must be simple, cheap, reliable, easy to repair and domestic.

This is exactly what the UAZ "Bukhanka" turned out to be - the most popular car in the North-Eastern Military District

[Private Rifleman]

The loaf turned out to be popular because it is cheap and there are no other options, but it is the worst option of all, the engine is not a diesel, there is no armor and a bonnetless body with no mine protection, the reliability is very poor

[faiver]

Well, as for reliability and maintainability, that's beside the point, and the current loaf is not distinguished by simplicity, as well as cheapness...

[Alf]

Quote: Million

A machine for war must be simple, cheap, reliable, easy to repair and domestic.
Today's generals seem to think differently.

That's why the howl... The SVO goes a little differently.

[air wolf]

The topic of autumn is relevant, we need a modern SUV in the army, and probably the Patriot will be brought to mind, Haval is only for civilian life, well, to give a big general a lift home...

[Dedok]

Patriot will probably be brought to mind,

Almost 60 years have passed, but his "grandfather" - 469 was a fine fellow...
ah, to get to the mind - only in a mental hospital...

[air wolf]

Unfortunately, we have no choice, even pickups from Solers will not save us, only our own production, our own repair base and trained personnel, for your information, the quality of UAZ can be improved by military acceptance. And we need a project to modernize the UAZ for the military, as it was in its time, military bridges, headlights for night driving and transmission reinforcement...

[Dedok]

And it is needed UAZ modernization project for the military, as it was in its time, military bridges, headlights for night driving and transmission enhancement...

there is nothing to modernize there...
a new car is needed... but there are no engineers, no "engineering school" for this in the country...

[air wolf]

I agree, a new car is very necessary, but now is not the time, but on the Patriot you need to do the following:
- install your own diesel engine.
-return the front axle without CV joints.
- finish the box with a combined transfer case
- strengthen the rear suspension
- expeditionary luggage rack as a base for it and anti-drone nets
-applied armor made of high-molecular-weight polyethylene
-steering rack with electric power steering
- night vision device for the driver based on EOP2+
- remove the rear wheel, make a removable roof and trunk door
-pumping wheels in the base
And all this can be implemented in the near future!

[Dedok]

you need to do the following:
- install your own diesel engine.
-return the front axle without CV joints.
- finish the box with a combined transfer case
- strengthen the rear suspension
- expeditionary luggage rack as a base for it and anti-drone nets
-applied armor made of high-molecular-weight polyethylene
-steering rack with electric power steering
- night vision device for the driver based on EOP2+
- remove the rear wheel, make a removable roof and trunk door
-pumping wheels in the base
And all this can be implemented in the near future!

you are a dreamer...
so, down the list:
1. diesel, no own (normal);
2. A bridge without CV joints - of course better for mud;
3. Combine the gearbox with the transfer case...we can't do that!;
4. Electric power steering on the RU is also from the realm of fantasy...
and the rest is almost unrelated to the topic of "auto"...
so, as you can see, a new car is needed - there is nothing left to "finish" in this one...

[air wolf]

the war is still long, I think Patriot and Bukhanka will be finished, we have no choice, only this...

[Dedok]

Patriot and Bukhanka will be finished, we have no choice, only this...

By the way, did you knead the mud on them?
In this sense, a loaf is preferable...

[air wolf]

Yes, the Bukhanka is a real car, I periodically go hunting in a UAZ truck, and its capabilities are even higher than those of the Bukhanka, to be honest, the army doesn’t really need the Patriot, they need the Bukhanka and the UAZ truck, and they only need a 120 hp diesel engine and add-on armor made of high-molecular polyethylene and stronger glass with polycarbonate.

[Dedok]

To be honest, the army doesn't really need the Patriot, it needs a Bukhanka and a UAZ truck,

probably so....

[Alf]

Quote: air wolf

only need a 120 hp diesel

So where can I get it? Which factory should I produce it at?

[Alf]

Quote: air wolf

I really need a new car,

What's so great about inventing?

[freddyk]

Quote: Dedok

And it is needed UAZ modernization project for the military, as it was in its time, military bridges, headlights for night driving and transmission enhancement...

there is nothing to modernize there...
a new car is needed... but there are no engineers, no "engineering school" for this in the country...

Reinvent a new bicycle? A military vehicle should be as simple as a bicycle. 469 UAZ normal atmospheric diesel, well and a transmission for it. That's all. And that's already a lot. Work for ten years.

[Dedok]

469 UAZ normal naturally aspirated diesel, and a transmission for it.

so it's almost a new car...
new, Karl!

[freddyk]

Quote: Dedok

469 UAZ normal naturally aspirated diesel, and a transmission for it.

so it's almost a new car...
new, Karl!

For Russia, maybe yes. But in the world, this is called modification.

[faiver]

we copy the RD28 with a gearbox from Nissan, we leave the body long from the cross and voila....

[Amateur]

and probably the Patriot will be brought to mind,

The Patriot has been in production for 20 years. If it hasn't been improved in that time, it's not worth improving. The car is clearly a failure.

[Egg]

Quote: air wolf

Haval is only for civilian life, well, to give a big general a lift home

Do you think the general will go to jail?
there you need a car no smaller than a Mercedes, and even then not every general and not every Mercedes will fit.

[air wolf]

A general, let's say a major, is not such a figure, in the USSR they would give him a UAZ, if he was lucky, a Volga, as a rule, a general lived in a garrison and walked to work, like in my units where I served, and in Moscow at the academy, the general himself drove a car, I liked him, he was a good guy, a wife, a mistress, and the car was in the garage...

[Gardamir]

Supporting a foreign manufacturer is sacred for the current government. As for cars for generals. Two modifications can be created, one for driving on bumps, the other for parquet.

[AS552000]

Haval doesn't drive at -25 - so I added anti-gel to the diesel fuel, warmed up the crankcase with a blowtorch, and it started driving. The "specialists" in Bronnitsy are something else. Bookish. If only they had developed a good Russian diesel for UAZ - that would be true. ZMZ engines are quite capricious and eat a lot. And the wiring is really bad - you need thicker wires for the headlights, they burn out. And there are also LED bulbs. The problem is that there are probably not enough experienced and competent mechanics in the country.

[Dedok]

I heated the crankcase with a blowtorch and it started moving. The "specialists" in Bronnitsy are something else.

What kind of specialists are they? I agree...
but the whole phrase is taken from my youth... and has nothing to do with "Lavasha"

[faiver]

so I added anti-gel to the diesel fuel, warmed up the crankcase with a blowtorch, and it started to move

- maybe it’s easier to fill up with winter diesel fuel?

[Cartographer]

Quote: faiver

so I added anti-gel to the diesel fuel, warmed up the crankcase with a blowtorch, and it started to move

- maybe it’s easier to fill up with winter diesel fuel?

Maybe it would be easier to install a pre-heater?

[faiver]

I live in Yakutia, on New Year's Eve it was -52 outside, and sometimes it's minus 60, and in some areas it's minus 70, and I can't say that pre-heaters are in demand here, they're an extra hassle in the car, somehow we drive without them.

[23ronin]

They are not bookish, they are enslaved, the generals from above desired it, the guys saluted ... ordinary army ... they want it, but for God's sake, not from their own pocket. And diesel is a good thing, but only tanks and KamAZ eat our diesel fuel ... you need to bring the fuel to normal condition, then remember about diesel, I know what I'm talking about, I have a diesel myself, abroad on the same imported diesel fuel and it sounds and drives differently. And also put something like "Webasto", since at -50 with diesel the problem is even greater than with gasoline + you also need glow plugs. That's how it is.

[23ronin]

It is better to dilute diesel fuel with kerosene TS 1. Antigel is from the evil one and look at what you pour into the tank according to the passport at least, the freezing temperature is one thing but the gelling temperature, that is what should be of interest. I recommend Drive 2, there is a diesel branch.

[Egg]

Quote: AS552000

I heated the crankcase with a blowtorch

modern synthetic oils don't even survive 1 warm-up... they roll up into polyethylene and instantly turn black.
After such warming up, the engine can only be thrown into the trash, all the oil channels will be clogged.
that's why they came up with pre-heaters that heat the antifreeze, not the oil

[Hikaro]

To be honest, the lack of any planning for the future is very striking!! And if in the future there is a cooling of relations with China??? After Xi, a completely different leader may become General Secretary and the vector of relations will change! Where will the Russian Ministry of Defense get spare parts for Chinese vehicles then??? It is not for nothing that in the USSR all military equipment was domestically produced, despite the Warsaw Pact and its allies!!! After all, the elders in the Politburo understood what and how the use of foreign equipment in the army threatens!!

[Aviator_]

It is not for nothing that in the USSR all military equipment was of its own production, despite the Warsaw Pact and its allies!!!

Not at all. The Czech L-29 was chosen as a training aircraft, while the domestic Yak-32 was much better. This is the 60s of the last century.

[Dedok]

while domestic Yak-32 was much better.

You probably made a mistake: Yak-52...

[Aviator_]

No, the Yak-32 jet is the same class as the L-29. And the Poles ignored this decision within the CMEA and started churning out their own training "Iskra".

[23ronin]

There was also a training fighter Yak 32. The Purpose of Life, a book by the designer Yakovlev to help you.

[faiver]

The Czech L-29 was chosen

- not only, remember the Mi-2 and An-2, the equipment is ours, but it was produced in Poland.....

[Aviator_]

Your example is how our devices were made by them, and I gave an example of how, to their detriment, their device was accepted as a training device by us.

[sibiryouk]

Anti-submarine ships were also made in the GDR, and landing ships in Poland.

[solar]

The L-29 is a two-seat training aircraft, and the Yak-32 is a single-seat sports aircraft. They have different purposes.

[Aviator_]

I was wrong, it was a Yak-30, a training aircraft, 1960. The Corn May-Beetle was then thoroughly destroying the domestic aviation.

[solar]

The decision that the L-29 would become the main training aircraft was made earlier, in 1959. The Czechs had the conditions for organizing serial production.
As for the Yak-30, a sports and aerobatic version of the Yak-32 for DOSAAF flying clubs was made on its basis, and it was also supposed to be produced in significant quantities, but it was not possible to organize serial production, so there were also obvious problems with serial production of the Yak-30 despite all the advantages of the aircraft. The later created Yak-52 training aircraft was also produced not in the USSR, but in Romania.

[cmax]

Quote: Hikaro

To be honest, the lack of any planning for the future is very striking!! And if in the future there is a cooling of relations with China??? After Xi, a completely different leader may become General Secretary and the vector of relations will change! Where will the Russian Ministry of Defense get spare parts for Chinese vehicles then??? It is not for nothing that in the USSR all military equipment was domestically produced, despite the Warsaw Pact and its allies!!! After all, the elders in the Politburo understood what and how the use of foreign equipment in the army threatens!!

Temporary workers, it seems! What planning. UAZ has been asking for a diesel engine for about twenty years, not a petrol one. I wish I could have bought a license for one (the same engine from Iveco - 2,5 liters, there are with and without a turbine) when it was possible to do so. But the plant is private, it doesn't need it, the Ministry of Defense doesn't need it either. There is no military acceptance. We have what we have. The quality is terrible, although UAZ is the best for the military with a normal approach to its high-quality production! This helplessness reflects our entire current life with airplanes, space, satellites, and in general.

[your1970]

Quote: cmax

Yes, UAZ has been asking for a diesel engine for about twenty years, not a petrol one. I would buy a license for one (the same engine from Iveco - 2,5 liters, there are with and without a turbine)

It asked for a diesel from the first day, so it’s not 20 but 70 years already...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: cmax

Quote: Hikaro

To be honest, the lack of any planning for the future is very striking!! And if in the future there is a cooling of relations with China??? After Xi, a completely different leader may become General Secretary and the vector of relations will change! Where will the Russian Ministry of Defense get spare parts for Chinese vehicles then??? It is not for nothing that in the USSR all military equipment was domestically produced, despite the Warsaw Pact and its allies!!! After all, the elders in the Politburo understood what and how the use of foreign equipment in the army threatens!!

Temporary workers, it seems! What planning. UAZ has been asking for a diesel engine for about twenty years, not a petrol one. I wish I could have bought a license for one (the same engine from Iveco - 2,5 liters, there are with and without a turbine) when it was possible to do so. But the plant is private, it doesn't need it, the Ministry of Defense doesn't need it either. There is no military acceptance. We have what we have. The quality is terrible, although UAZ is the best for the military with a normal approach to its high-quality production! This helplessness reflects our entire current life with airplanes, space, satellites, and in general.

Knowing the material could help you avoid making populist conclusions.
In the mid-10s, a very good diesel engine was installed on UAZs. ZMZ-51432. I had 12 cars with such diesel engines. Excellent engines. They went 400-500 thousand kilometers. The only problem was with the vacuum boosters.
But no one in the Ministry of Defense liked this diesel engine.
Only for private individuals.

[cmax]

Quote: SovAr238A

Knowing the material could help you avoid making populist conclusions.

I worked at a service station (head of the spare parts department, Iveco service for 10 years)
Engine - diesel Iveco F1A on Iveco Daily, Fiat Ducato and UAZ Patriot cars. Cool engine. The one you are writing about also comes from the PCA concern, not turbocharged, re-engineered, only it is from the 80s in the USSR. It took a long time to bring it to mind. Problems with components (rings, sleeves, liners) and the need for a high culture in production,
hence the high cost of production.
I meant just normal serial production of a diesel engine (not a batch) for UAZ.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Hikaro

To be honest, I am very surprised by the lack of any planning for the future!!

in the sense of lack of planning? from the article "A rather large enterprise with an area of ​​more than 230 hectares was built by 2019 year, and at first it was not entirely clear why China was investing in this project. Until 2022, the success of Chinese car brands in Russia was very modest, but the plant was built immediately to produce 300 thousand cars per year."
What is this if not planning? Or do you think such factories are built on a whim?

[your1970]

Quote: Hikaro

It’s not for nothing that in the USSR all military equipment was of its own production, despite the Warsaw Pact and its allies!!! The elders in the Politburo did understand what and how the use of foreign technology in the army was threatening!!

That's why the MI-2 was made in Poland, and up to 30% of military ships were built in the socialist camp...
Z. S
70% of passenger ships were built for the USSR in capitalist countries

[Yuri L]

No, our Ministry of Defense doesn't need some Haval (otherwise the soldier will also want to eat by analogy), but there is still hope in the country of brothers forever. It's called BAIC BJ212. It's not known whether it's a good car or not, but its appearance, the absence of stupid, incomprehensible to the General bells and whistles in the form of glass will definitely please the eye of our General. Only for such an appearance can the lack of localization be forgiven.

[Alex013]

In the land of brothers forever this jeep ruled in the army until 2008. Now Beijing BJ2022

[Dart]

I agree, these are the devices I wrote about above.

[Zaurbek]

In the end, let them ride the Tiger. Ride on what you made.

[AS552000]

In general, a good article. Even before it, I suspected that Chinese cars are like Russian ones, that is, you have to finish them yourself. Change the wiring, tighten the nuts, etc.

[Dedok]

Even before her, I suspected that Chinese cars are like Russian ones, that is, you have to fine-tune them yourself.

???????
Do you have any real experience using Chinese?
and regarding the wiring - look at the li xiang, open the carpet on the floor and look...

[Dedok]

minus-takers, what kind of equipment do you use?
well, as a survey...
I drive a Volvo, which is an XC60, and my son drives a Li Xiang, which is a Li7...
the topic is close to me... to say the least...
My opinion is based on operating experience, and yours?

[Zaurbek]

China added the H9, which was tested, the generation changed and has successors: the H9new, Tank300 and Tank500.
Among civilian UAZs, one should compare them with a pickup truck like Sollers. Née JACQUET.

[AS552000]

Last year I manually rebuilt the wiring on the Gazelle. The year before last I rebuilt the wiring in the headlights myself, replacing the bulbs with good LED ones. I installed larger-section wires, and the car starts.
with half a kick and completely forgot about the headlights. How many different masters looked at it, no one did anything. After all, everyone wants to make a quick buck, and not pick at the wiring.

[Stas157]

Not just UAZ. This is roughly how one can characterize the Russian Defense Ministry's attempts to find an alternative to the SUV

If you need a good car, make it. All you need to do is just polish up what's left of the Soviet legacy. The USSR made its own galoshes! And today's capitalists are always looking abroad.

[Dedrusav]

"Celestial Empire"... The rest are underwater or underground, or what?!

[Pavel Patrashov]

UAZ - made by eye..., and what do we want, the average salary at the plant is 35 thousand rubles,

[avia12005]

The best UAZ-469 is the one that was produced in the late 60s and up to the mid-70s, and accepted by military acceptance. The one without any bells and whistles, with a mechanical clutch and military bridges. Yes, there were problems with the gearbox, crosspieces, but they were quite easily fixed. There was something to compare with)))

[Dedok]

The one without any bells and whistles, with a mechanical clutch and military bridges.

axles with wheel reduction gears came much later...

[ergh081]

"..pebble in your garden. Almost everyone who is fighting is talking about the problems of UAZs in the SVO zone now." This is not a pebble, but a brick that suggests itself. We need to return guaranteed quality to our military vehicles. There are many problems, but they are all solvable, and the first thing that needs to be done is to remove the production of military vehicles from market relations. Create your own diesel engine (buy a license for a time-tested one) for light military vehicles: it does not necessarily have to be economical and generally super-duper, but it must be reliable. Remove all computers, leave all systems as minimally complex as possible. And so on.

[Alexander X]

Create your own diesel unit (buy a license for a time-tested one) for light military vehicles: it does not necessarily have to be economical or super-duper, but it must be reliable. Remove all computers, leave all systems as minimally complex as possible. And so on.
I completely agree! A Russian military SUV, and a mass-market "people's" SUV, needs: reliability, durability, maintainability and a low price. And no fancy computer systems are needed. Military equipment production must be 100% localized in Russia!
It's time to nationalize the UAZ plant!

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: ergh081

There are many problems, but they are all solvable, and the first thing that needs to be done is to remove the production of military vehicles from market relations.

During Stalin's time, Shoigu would have been shot long ago for all his "artistic deeds". But under the current Supreme Command, he occupies a very "cushy" position.
And the soldiers at the LBS? They'll get by somehow. Volunteers will help with "loaves".
That's how we live.
Capitalism. The desire to become "one of our own, bourgeois"...

[ergh081]

Shoigu has nothing to do with it. He was put in such conditions: it’s profitable here, it’s not profitable there. Have you read the Federal Law on State Procurement? It’s all about the price, the cheaper one won the auction. So they’re making up these go no laws. Once again - according to the law! Questions: who writes the laws? who discusses them in three readings? Who signs them? A small example from me: I worked in a state unitary enterprise during the times of covid, in one of the hospitals it was necessary to install a medical gas supply. We went to the site, measured everything, collaborated with the design organization, made calculations for the design and estimate documentation. In the end, we went to the auction, dropped the price twice, and still won ... an individual entrepreneur with an Armenian surname with two people on staff. We don’t pay salaries, we don’t pay taxes, it can be cheaper. Listen, it’s a shame, right?

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: ergh081

Shoigu has nothing to do with it.

And fishing with the Supreme is the same.
It is enough to shoot a dozen officials, as in China - and, lo and behold, the laws and amendments to them will be justified.
But we must begin as in the distant past - remember the royal family. Some people throw tantrums about this - but this was the only real way to resolve this issue.

[23ronin]

Again, history teaches nothing, China has already "helped" in the banking sector, a number of banks refused to work with Russia because of sanctions. We are driving oil and gas for next to nothing, just so that they buy. You need to have your own, YOUR OWN! And the fact that the 469 car requires replacement, and Patrick is also not the best option is clear. Maybe they should take into account the experience of the British with the "Defender", for some reason they do not replace it with the same "Discovery" or something similar. They just make the car more technologically advanced. They removed the frame, made a monocoque body, etc., etc. Plus QUALITY
Ulyanovsk units do not stand up to criticism, the same gearbox is Chinese, but at least its production is localized in Russia.

[Dedok]

Can be adopted the English experience with the "Defender", they don't seem to change it on the same "Discovery" or something similar.

changed a long time ago, you are behind the times...

[23ronin]

That's why I see that all of Europe drives Steyrs and Defenders...from the police to the army.

[23ronin]

The Ministry of Defense generals have "mastered" billions of people's money, maybe the "lads" will share it for cars for their butts? And the line commanders will get something.

[Vadim S]

These black havalas are driving around Moscow in the area of ​​the Ministry of Defense buildings, but for some reason the nameplates are painted over or torn off! Or they are embarrassed, or what, it is not clear. But there are many of them, and it is not only H9, there are others.

[North watchmen]

Quote: Hikaro

The elders in the Politburo did understand what and how the use of foreign technology in the army was threatening!!

As it turned out, they are not old men at all, but wise men, wise with experience, unlike...

[North watchmen]

Are you just amused by the comments under the article?
What do you all not like? Could an economic policy to please international capital lead to any other results? Where will engineers and modern units come from if the Russian elite consistently destroyed domestic industrial production?
Recall how zero duty and VAT rates were introduced on imported units for cars and airliners, sending engineers and developers into the world. Recall how Chemezov, at the instigation of RENAULT, destroyed the plant for the production of robotic manipulators in Tolyatti, as well as the VAZ Scientific and Technical Center and the technical library. Recall how a famous politician spat on the entire domestic engineering school, lying about the koloshes.
For those who don't like loaves of bread - here's the export only to distant foreign countries - "... 1230 export vehicles were distributed to distant foreign countries: demand for UAZs in Asia almost doubled, exports to the Middle East grew fourfold, ⅔ more vehicles were registered in the countries of the European Union.
"And you, a common man, can you sell anything abroad?"

[Alex013]

If from Chinese, then you need to compare with BAW BJ2022

[victorlitvin]

It's sad... Not able to produce a new car

[Aag]

Quote: victorlitvin

It's sad... Not able to produce a new car

Even the old ones can't do it well anymore...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

It is a disgrace to adopt Chinese Haval. We need to provide our people with work!!!

A whole series of premium class vehicles was created for the presidential administration. Can't they do the same for the army?!

We need vehicles in the bodies of a jeep, pickup truck and cross-country minivan with options for armored capsules for the cabin with protection from small arms and detonation at least when driving over a mine with a wheel.

[faiver]

A whole series of premium class vehicles was created for the presidential administration. Can't they do the same for the army?!

- this is a car superjet if you don't know...

[Maluck]

The main drawback of the Patriot is the crooked assembly at the factory. If the car is assembled correctly from normal parts and units, it turns out to be a completely normal peepalats. And if you service it on time, it will last no less than a foreign car. This is my third Patriot and I don’t plan to switch to another brand. And I change cars because with each new model the factory added new goodies.

[Zaurbek]

The client doesn't need better, who will do better. And the general wants to ride on something soft.....

[Aag]

Quote: Maluck

The main drawback of the Patriot is the crooked assembly at the factory. If the car is assembled correctly from normal parts and units, it turns out to be a completely normal peepalats. And if you service it on time, it will last no less than a foreign car. This is my third Patriot and I don’t plan to switch to another brand. And I change cars because with each new model the factory added new goodies.

... "Third"....
You are a lucky guy!
I already have five friends (hunters, fishermen) who bought "Hunters", "Patriots" with no mileage, and in the showrooms they returned to 469s, or Japanese cars with high mileage. Because they spent the entire warranty period hiding with complaints. They changed the rubber seals, turbines, engines (!), door assemblies (window lifters fell off), headlights (which bent out while driving), relays...
And not some kind of clumsy people! - with a specialized automotive education, working in their specialty mainly...
And how do you like such a "goodie" - like an electronic accelerator pedal? And with a lever made of plastic of dubious quality?! A tragic prospect of getting wet, or breaking a boot in the cold this act in the taiga, or under fire.
I had to resuscitate a Patriot after a three-day drift along the Angara: a man came to go fishing - a week after he picked up the car from the showroom. He hadn't even issued CASCO insurance... I don't know - the handbrake cable snapped before or during the swim... While I was arguing with the experts, the car stood in the scorching sun for a week. They started it up (with flushing, replacements), but the electricians condemned all the wiring!

[Maluck]

If you drive to knead mud, then taking a car from the showroom for this means simply condemning it. For such purposes, the car needs to be prepared (this applies not only to the UAZ). I will not describe what it is, those who need it will find the information. But driving in normal mode asphalt + country road + in the snow in winter without getting stuck is quite normal.
As for the "Patriot for the needs of the Ministry of Defense" - here, IMHO, a separate modification is needed, without unnecessary electronics, unpretentious and with a highly durable chassis.

[Aag]

Quote: Maluck

If you drive to knead mud, then taking a car from the showroom for this means simply condemning it. For such purposes, the car needs to be prepared (this applies not only to the UAZ). I will not describe what it is, those who need it will find the information. But driving in normal mode asphalt + country road + in the snow in winter without getting stuck is quite normal.
As for the "Patriot for the needs of the Ministry of Defense" - here, IMHO, a separate modification is needed, without unnecessary electronics, unpretentious and with a highly durable chassis.

In the first part of your comment, I agree!
Regarding the second one, it will be a completely different car... In our case, very similar to the UAZ-469!
Sorry, - not just my opinion, - I conducted a quick survey at work today: guys (well, - like "guys") - thirty-forty-year-olds... Those - excuse me - who are going to fight (those, motherfuckers, who can't pay their mortgage, and barely pay for their rented accommodation... And we're still remembering the "May Decrees"! Who remembers what year it was? What was done?!
KVN 2019 already laughed at this...
(((....

[BAI]

The obvious fact is that the Haval was planned as a command vehicle for cities, under the guise of frontline needs. The UAZ looks abnormal in the center of Moscow.
The Ministry of Emergency Situations (Moscow) has a Porsche Cayenne with a special paint job - and nothing.
At the exhibition Safety 20... some year I saw a field command post at the base INFINITY QX-56

[Zaurbek]

The H9 is not an army model. It's just that the priests of the leadership need to be transported, so they tried to push it through procurement.
China has a lot of UAZ-like pickups with simpler diesel engines and drive and gearbox. Now Sollers (the owner of UAZ) is trying to localize something similar with roots from Hilux.
The Russian Federation itself is to blame... they abandoned UAZ to self-sufficiency. And such cars are no longer needed in civilian life... and foreigners will not make a localized 4x4 for the Russian army. Moreover, no one forced them to do so.
And it was possible to master diesel and gearboxes and bridges.

[AnAAsd]

Money and connections decide EVERYTHING

[ss29]

UAZ does not produce cars, but defects. Any Patriot owner will say that it needs to be repaired before driving away from the showroom. Or else the car will be scrapped for five years. The dream of UAZ owners is to assemble Chinese cars, but here the SVO got mixed up.

[Serova-Kamanina]

No matter how you look at it or make fun of it, I have 45 years of experience working with cars, so I will speak out about the article.
A Chinese has no right to serve our Motherland. This is a disgrace for a country that was once Great and powerful, which launched rockets but was never able to produce a reliable, simple car. Shame on our clan system!
HAVAL is a purely civilian vehicle. Its purpose is civilian use.
The shame of our country is an under-car, it was born in the 70s and will die, or rather, it has already died. And they shook its bells and smoothed out its wrinkles. But you can't make a new one out of an old dog. Next to the "under-Patriot" there should always be a repair car MTO-AT. This is not a misunderstanding, this is a betrayal of the elites and financial magnates.
What to do? We can't do anything, and the TOP has "SHUT THE BOLT" on everything. We live in the richest country in the WORLD, but the people are basically as poor as a field mouse.
Until Stalin is born, until he uses SMERSH, we will continue to feed foreigners.
Happy New Year to all!

[Oleg Ogorod]

The Patriot is not very reliable, but the problem is easy to solve. Shoot the top management of UAZ, appoint the next ones. The car will not improve, shoot them too, including those who appointed them. And so on. In a short time, the Patriots will be unrecognizable. They will run along the Silk Road without breakdowns like silk to China. For export.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

The Patriot is not very reliable, but the problem is easy to solve. Shoot the top management of UAZ, appoint the next ones. The car will not improve, shoot them too, including those who appointed them. And so on. In a short time, the Patriots will be unrecognizable. They will run along the Silk Road without breakdowns like silk to China. For export.

Are the screws hammered in on the conveyor belt by top managers? Or by the local lazy public?

[Egg]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

The Patriot is not very reliable, but the problem is easy to solve. Shoot the top management of UAZ, appoint the next ones. The car will not improve, shoot them too, including those who appointed them. And so on. In a short time, the Patriots will be unrecognizable. They will run along the Silk Road without breakdowns like silk to China. For export.

The whole problem is that the manufacturer has long been uninterested in producing reliable, high-quality cars, as well as other equipment. Now the policy is all over the world: equipment should serve its warranty period (3-5 years) and be scrapped, no repairs or anything else.
It used to be that cars would run for 20-30 years with a mileage of a million km, companies would compete to see whose car would go the longest, even Kamaz entered this race, Kamaz cars would run around the USSR with the inscription on their cabins: "500 km without major repairs". Toyotas would easily run for a million, or even a million and a half. Look at the Crowns from the 000-80s, they are still running on the roads. But those times are gone, the consumer should regularly buy a new car, and the collapse of the old one, with the warranty period just ending, should push him to do this.
Now even Mercedes, Audi, Toyota and others, once famous for their exceptional reliability, start to fall apart like our UAZs as soon as the warranty period ends.

[Oleg Ogorod]

If high-quality steel and high-precision machining are used to manufacture the same 469 or Patriots, and normal machines and modern machining centers have long existed for this, and the assembly is entrusted to qualified specialists, then there will be no problems with the quality of UAZs.
And now, military KamAZ trucks, accepted by military acceptance, often break down before they even leave the gate. The same applies to UAZ. One problem, one owner.
However, they have one reason, the problem with pricing military products. But that is a separate topic.

[SovAr238A]

Well, what can I say? My comparative tests of Patriot and Hawala were much longer than MO's.
Both off-road and weather.
And in terms of maintenance costs.
Machines in the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug/Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug; Bashkiria, the Orenburg steppes, and the Southern Urals worked around the clock, 22 hours a day.
50% of the mileage is off-road.
Average annual mileage: 120 thousand km.

I'll say right away that there is no less electronics in the UAZ.
All components and assemblies are Chinese and Indian.
Cylinder head, manual transmission, transfer case - 100% imported.
Bridges and cardans are also very often imported. Seats too.
So in real ownership of UAZ, it is not at all simple and cannot be repaired around the corner. Operating UAZ is twice as expensive as Haval. Even taking into account imported spare parts.

[faiver]

I'll say right away that there is no less electronics in the UAZ.

- everything is correct, and it is also necessary to add that all the electronics on the UAZ are junk, the electrical wiring is shitty, plus savings on metal, plus clumsy assembly and as a result we get crap on wheels....

[Polkovnik68]

Haval is several times better than Patriot. We drove UAZ for 20 years, and Haval for 4 years. It's like night and day. Even the Chinese car's cross-country ability is unfortunately better. Not to mention the capacity, reliability, comfort and build quality. 4 thousand kilometers in 260 years and everything is fine. Would UAZ even cover 260 thousand kilometers? That's right.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

And why is that piece of crap in the photo called, for some reason, the UAZ of the army?
Plastic bumper, everything is delicate.
Here it is either a solid UAZ like before.
Or something new (but also reliable and strong).

[Vlad2012]

As far as I remember, by 2026 HAVAL should have 80% Russian localization. The Chinese have already built a plant producing engines. In my opinion, it would be better if they offered something like Dongfeng Mengshi for the army contract, maybe then UAZ would at least start itching. Only the lazy have not peed on the quality of the latest one produced for the SVO.

[opposite28]

"during 2020-2021, the Federal State Budgetary Institution "21 Research and Testing Institute of Military Automotive Equipment" of the Russian Ministry of Defense, located in the city of Bronnitsy in the Moscow Region, conducted comparative tests and trial operation of UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot and HAVAL H9 vehicles."

And the instruction manual with swear words in Chinese will be attached to each HAVAL vehicle accepted into service?! Is Chinese expansion coming to the Russian Ministry of Defense?! By the way, removing the long-standing UAZ automobile cluster from the domestic armed forces is a huge mistake, despite the political relations and other chatter about economic cooperation. For example, the Chinese are still running around the Taiga for berries, violating the ecology of the region, and not only around the Taiga, by the way, there are a lot of questions about the fires in Siberia because forests do not naturally burn like that, and the version about dry thunderstorms with such frequency and periodicity is unlikely. But the fact that someone in China is haunted by forest plantations in the Russian Federation with the aim of making a profit by collusion with local businessmen, not without the participation of representatives of local authorities, is more than likely!

[hottabychchchch]

why is it that the 469 was always considered a command vehicle from the regiment commander and above, soldiers only saw them at formations, give them to the front

[hottabychchchch]

why is it that the 469 was always considered a command vehicle from the regiment commander and above, soldiers only saw them at formations, give them to the front

[Fangaro]

Quote: Konnick

“From the point of view of technical support, the HAVAL H9 vehicle will require the organization of special points (service centers) in the Armed Forces for their maintenance and repair in the Central and Eastern military districts, as well as the organization of their supply with spare parts and...

And for this it was necessary to conduct tests and write articles??? Here it is, the sawing up...
Where were you before when, at the behest of the oligarch Shvetsov, a kaleidoscope of cramming imported engines and gearboxes into a utilitarian car began... they turned a normal car into who knows what...

Well, how can you call him an oligarch? He facilitated the supply of many, many percent of domestically produced Rextons, assembled in the Russian Federation. And Kyrons.
Civilians tend to praise.
The military, as a rule, scold a little.
UAZ was criticized more than Rexton.

[Fangaro]

Quote: oppozite28

"during 2020-2021, the Federal State Budgetary Institution "21 Research and Testing Institute of Military Automotive Equipment" of the Russian Ministry of Defense, located in the city of Bronnitsy in the Moscow Region, conducted comparative tests and trial operation of UAZ-3163-485-40 Patriot and HAVAL H9 vehicles."

And the instruction manual with swear words in Chinese will be attached to each HAVAL vehicle accepted into service?! Is Chinese expansion coming to the Russian Ministry of Defense?! By the way, removing the long-standing UAZ automobile cluster from the domestic armed forces is a huge mistake, despite the political relations and other chatter about economic cooperation. For example, the Chinese are still running around the Taiga for berries, violating the ecology of the region, and not only around the Taiga, by the way, there are a lot of questions about the fires in Siberia because forests do not naturally burn like that, and the version about dry thunderstorms with such frequency and periodicity is unlikely. But the fact that someone in China is haunted by forest plantations in the Russian Federation with the aim of making a profit by collusion with local businessmen, not without the participation of representatives of local authorities, is more than likely!

So, an operating manual was included with each car.
And a nameplate on the radiator grille.
VAI, for example. Haven't you seen it?

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

For the army, only the classic UAZ. Maximum 3151 and its variations. Strong, reliable, passable, repairable. And better 469 with classic military bridges and gearbox.

[North watchmen]

Quote: ergh081

We need to restore guaranteed quality to our military vehicles.

Go and return it - the salary of a worker in Ulyanovsk is 40 thousand.

[bbss]

469th is the only way to resume!

[smart ass]

I would like to see how the fighters in the SVO zone will repair the variator on the rubble!?

[Maverick1812]

Our "honesty" always backfires on us! We always sit down to play cards honestly, but we play with cheaters! Disassemble, clone a Toyota 70 series and forget about the problem for many years. In response to the squeals, the samurai should roll out a ban on the supply of bioresources and the catch of seafood.
The only thing that confuses me is our Russian quality, which is capable of turning the ideal into crap.

[RMT]

These are the tests and conclusion. Details are needed.

[whitesnow]

In Moscow's military organizations, Haval is in its place.
In districts and county services too.
But how do the activists of the Russian Ministry of Defense imagine the use of both Khavalov and new UAZs in the line units?
Sometimes there is misunderstanding. Are they far from the people?
Were they themselves commanders of automobile platoons? Companies? Deputy commanders of technical units?
The best SUV for line units is the UAZ-469!
Take Haval, UAZ-3163-485-40 and 469th. And drive for a week in forests, mountains and all sorts of directions.
And on the eighth day, see which of them will be able to leave the box at all and how they will look.
With respect. Former deputy commander of the technical support group of the Special Forces of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia.

[Maxim]

Soleros based on a Chinese pickup truck to prepare a large SUV with deep localization diesel engine, M6 gearbox and everything else
Russian SUV Sollers SUV based on JAC T9 pickup to be released in 2025
Sollers SUV
November 15, 2024 • Levchenko Maxim • News

On November 15, 2024, a presentation of new products from Sollers took place, and one of the most interesting announcements was the full-size 7-seater SUV Sollers SUV (no market name yet).

The debut of the Sollers frame SUV is scheduled for 2025. It is already known that it is being developed on the basis of the Chinese JAC T9 pickup, but Sollers will undertake all the changes to transform the pickup into a closed SUV. That is, this is no longer a usual change of nameplates, but a fairly serious work on the part of the Russian company.


Photo: “Autoflow”
Speaking about the JAC T9 pickup, this is a relatively new model in China, presented in 2020, and debuted in Russia in the spring of 2024. This is a large car with a body length of 5330 mm, in size and format it is a competitor to the Great Wall Poer or the related JAC T8 Pro.

[AC130 Gunship]

The idea itself is terrifying. Instead of giving detailed technical specifications to GAZ, Kamaz (and maybe even MAZ) to create a multifunctional platform for a new military vehicle, some comedian decided to test a purely truck-based SUV.
And who ever said that the UAZ Patriot was designed for the army? It was presented in the early 2000s for lovers of active recreation, with more comfortable seats than on the 469

[AC130 Gunship]

My summer cottage neighbor installed a new Korean diesel engine and gearbox on a new 20 about 469 years ago. He said it became a dream car. The whole rework cost $3000 at the time.

[aesculapius]

But it turns out that now we need prepared loaves

[seacap]

There is nothing to discuss, everything is as usual and everything is much simpler. Another swindler decided to saw off budget money. One thing is unclear, now they can’t just take it anywhere, where to put so much money, not everyone will get enough. They don’t give a damn about the army and the country, the traders in power, only profit, only money.

[Yumico]

The Chinese seemed to have foreseen the future and after the start of the Second World War they found themselves in a very privileged position.
They didn't foresee the future, they bought officials!

[1944 - 1989]

If appearance is important, then UAZ is definitely a winner, it suits the army, is original and unique.
I had a chance to drive a UAZ "Ogorek". At first I was surprised by the position of the gear lever, but the car is good and multifunctional.