Electronic warfare will be useless against Ukrainian FPV drones on fiber optics: shotguns are needed – lots of them

Death by Fiber

Despite the development of electronic warfare equipment (EW), FPV-drones remain one of the most effective means of destruction during military operations conducted within the framework of the Russian special military operation (SMO) in Ukraine.

The emergence of FPV drones controlled via fiber optic cable has completely nullified not only electronic warfare systems, but also made useless existing drone detectors based on the analysis of electromagnetic waves – radio control signals and transmission of video signals from FPV drones.

Despite the fact that the first individual samples of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) controlled via fiber optics were tested by the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) - these were German NSH UAVs, serial samples of FPV drones controlled via fiber optics were received by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces).

The promising German NSH - fortunately, like everything German, it is most likely quite expensive

The first mass-produced Russian FPV drone with fiber-optic control was the Prince Vandal Novgorodsky, developed by the ANO USHKUYNIK Scientific and Production Center from Veliky Novgorod.

Recently, specialized information resources have published a significant number of video confirmations of the destruction of Ukrainian equipment and manpower, carried out with the help of FPV drones "Prince Vandal Novgorodsky". Their distinctive feature is the high quality of the image and the absence of traces of the impact of electronic warfare.

Image from the FPV drone "Prince Vandal Novgorodsky" - a moment before hitting the target

The problem is that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are also developing FPV drones controlled via fiber optics. A number of Russian information resources report that the enemy is making significant purchases of fiber optic reels in China.

Ukrainian FPV drone with fiber optic control

By the way, Ukrainian developers are working not only on FPV drones on optical fiber, but also on larger reconnaissance UAVs and bomber UAVs like Baba Yaga, also controlled via optical fiber.

All of the above means that in the near future, Russian Armed Forces fighters may encounter a significant number of Ukrainian UAVs of various types, undetectable by existing drone detectors and not suppressed by electronic warfare systems.

By the way, there are certain methods for detecting FPV drones controlled via fiber optics, but it is too early to publish them in the open press, so as not to give the enemy food for thought.

Relatively large UAV bombers like the Baba Yaga can still be detected with thermal imaging or radar and destroyed by conventional means, so the first threat will be the nimble FPV drones flying over the ground with fiber optic control.

This problem is urgent, significant and must be resolved immediately.

There are a number of ways to solve this problem, which we will talk about today.

Shotguns

We discussed the feasibility of using shotguns for infantry self-defense against FPV drones back in January 2022, a month before the start of the SVO in the article From a cannon to sparrows: will the micro-UAV return a shotgun to the battlefield.

At that time, few believed that small UAVs, which could be effectively fought with shotguns, would be used against manpower - just read the comments to that material. And now we have what we have: the number of FPV drones on the battlefield is such that they hunt even individual fighters, not to mention a group of fighters or equipment.

It's all simple, as the Ukrainian experience shows: it's much easier and cheaper to make a million drones than to give birth to, raise and train a million fighters - it would seem that this should be clear even to clinical idiots, but no, and to this day for some, a "consumable" is an infantryman, not a drone, as they say, "a camera gun costs money, but my life is free."

We returned to the problem of counteracting FPV drones with a smoothbore weapons already in March 2024 in the material 50 shotguns per year for the Russian army. Why the problem of FPV kamikaze drones needs to be solved now, when it became finally clear that the number of FPV drones on the battlefield was growing almost exponentially, and electronic warfare systems could not cope with them.

Since the publication, no information has appeared in open sources about the mass centralized supply of Russian Armed Forces fighters with shotguns designed to work against FPV drones. Instead, some reports are published about the transfer of confiscated civilian weapons to Russian Armed Forces fighters, the supply of these weapons by volunteers, and the like.

As a result, it is not standardized, highly effective weapons that end up on the front lines, but God knows what, like grandfather's double-barreled shotguns. And this is despite the fact that Russian industry can potentially produce tens of thousands of modern smooth-bore guns per year.

Russian defense companies have developed and are producing highly effective smoothbore multi-shot guns such as the Saiga-12 and Vepr-Molot, which can be effectively used against FPV drones

Why is this happening?

It is possible that defense concerns are busy producing other types of small arms, for example, it just so happens that, apparently, there is a shortage of machine guns, as a result of which some North Korean products have appeared on the front.

North Korean Type 73 Machine Guns Spotted in NWO Zone

This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that in the brand store of the Imperial Tula Arms Factory, the sellers informed the author's friend that there were no TOZ-34 vertical-rifle guns for sale due to the temporary suspension of their production.

Okay, no problem, machine guns are also needed, then why not buy shotguns abroad? It's not a difficult matter, the same Turkey will supply as much as needed - just give them money, and their guns are quite good in quality, there are other options.

Semi-automatic shotgun Armtac RS-S1 S, caliber 12x76, with a box underbarrel magazine, with a barrel length of 400 mm (top) and semi-automatic shotgun KRAL ARMS TACTICAL L, caliber 12x76, with a tubular underbarrel magazine, with a barrel length of 470 mm (bottom)

It is characteristic that opinions regarding shotguns still differ: some (like the author) consider them an effective means of combating FPV drones, while others say that a fighter will not be able to carry both a machine gun and a shotgun at the same time.

In reality, it varies, some can do it, and some can’t. There are always fighters carrying additional loads – communications, RPG charges or something else, and the same will happen with a shotgun. In addition, the reality is that allocating some forces only for self-defense against FPV drones becomes vital: without cover, the rest, even with machine guns, even with tanks, will not get anywhere, so changes in the composition and staffing of platoons and squads have been long overdue.

There is also a lot of controversy about underbarrel shotguns: on the one hand, this allows you not to carry an additional weapon, on the other hand, underbarrel shotguns are significantly less effective due to the short barrel length and the need for manual reloading, in addition, they greatly shift the balance of the standard weapon, making it less maneuverable.

We can also recall the Soviet rifle-grenade launcher complex - product 80.002, based on the Kalashnikov assault rifle, supplemented by a 12,7 mm grenade launcher, which in the current reality could well become a shotgun, as well as others samples of combined firearms, but their development is not a matter of one year.

However, there is an alternative to shotguns, albeit not a complete one, these are special anti-drone cartridges for standard weapons.

5,45mm Fragmenting Ammunition

A number of open sources have reported information about the still home-made development in Russia of anti-drone cartridges based on standard 5,45x39 mm ammunition.

To do this, the bullet is removed and seven 00 pellets with a diameter of 4,5 mm in heat shrink are installed in its place. When fired, the pellets fly apart, increasing the likelihood of hitting an enemy FPV drone - of course, we are talking about close range. The author was unable to find information on the actual use and effectiveness of such ammunition.

It can be assumed that with home-made production there is a high chance of delays in the weapon, damage to the barrel or fragments of ammunition getting stuck in the barrel, although it is possible that, given the legendary reliability of Kalashnikov assault rifles, everything will work fine.

On the other hand, in factory production, for example, when pellets are placed in some plastic container that also fragments after firing, the efficiency of such a solution can be quite high. It is also possible to create an even more effective anti-drone fragmenting ammunition for 7,62x39 mm caliber assault rifles.

The disadvantage of anti-drone ammunition for standard weapons is that the fighter must select in advance the ammunition that he will use at the current moment, since after the appearance of an FPV drone, especially on fiber optics, from which the drone detector will not work, it may be too late to change the magazine.

On the other hand, even if you have a shotgun, you still need to have time to intercept it, and if you don't have a shotgun, it's clearly better than nothing - you can run away, change your position, change the magazine, and then "self-defend" yourself from the FPV drone. In addition, again, there may be a division of tasks in the group - someone goes with standard ammunition, and someone controls the sky and covers from FPV drones, installing magazines with anti-drone ammunition on the AK.

Conclusions

The problem with specialized weapons and ammunition designed to work against FPV drones must be solved immediately, before the enemy saturates the battlefield with fiber-optic-controlled FPV drones. And even without fiber optics, our fighters would have clearly benefited from such weapons yesterday.

Volunteers won’t solve the problem here – centralized supplies are needed.

It doesn't matter whether these are domestic semi-automatic shotguns like the Saiga-12 or Vepr-Molot, or foreign semi-automatic models, but shotguns are needed urgently, and a lot of them are needed, as well as ammunition for them. It is worth remembering that fighters must adapt to the new weapon and gain experience in its real use.

In parallel, it is necessary to consider the possibility of producing anti-drone ammunition for standard weapons – fragmenting striking elements for 5,45x39 mm and 7,62x39 mm cartridges.

I wonder how such ammunition would perform against FPV drones?

Practice will put everything in its place - it will show what is more effective, semi-automatic 12-gauge shotguns or anti-drone ammunition for standard weapons, and perhaps they will effectively complement each other. In any case, there is very little time, you need to go both ways at once.

There are potentially other ways to combat FPV drones, including EW-resistant fiber-optic controlled drones, but we'll talk about them in another article.

Comments

[Lech from Android.]

There was a video where a cat shot down an air force drone with its paw...here's another way to fight them.
And according to the article...shotguns should have been delivered to the army in the required quantity yesterday...why this was not done on time is a question for the responsible people in the Ministry of Defense. In the times of Comrade Stalin, they would have been standing against the wall and asking for forgiveness long ago.
In general, guns are not a panacea for this mosquito infection... more effective ways of fighting FPV drones are needed... this is obvious.

[mark1]

Quote: Lech from Android.

The cat shot down an air force drone with its paw...here's another way to fight them.

Expensive to maintain - eats a lot of Whiskas

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Lech from Android.

There was a video where a cat shot down an air force drone with its paw...here's another way to fight them.

He even shot down a drone, and maybe even a giggling one, but there is a nuance.
It wasn't a combat FPV, but a "whoopee" like the one below.
A normal-sized FPV would have at least cut the cat's paws, or even cut them off. That is, if the cat had not run away in horror, because cats are afraid of a characteristic sound, sight, reinforced by size.
So it's a funny video, nothing more.

[Alekseev]

"...guns are not a panacea..."
That's right!
But... Well, shotguns are different from shotguns. A hunting rifle is one thing, even if it's semi-automatic.
Another thing is a 100 mm canister on a tank or other armored fighting vehicle with a laser rangefinder and a modern fire control system. A kind of APS against drones. The only difference from APS against ATGMs and shells is the cheapness, since the drone flies more slowly.
Also interesting are installations for hitting drones at distances from 50 to 1000 m using cheap missiles based on NUR. Or SAM. SAMs for hitting drones at such short distances are incomparable in price with missiles for SAM systems.
Well, EW is not the same as EW. Jamming drones on fiber optics is useless. But a high-power microwave beam is useless not for jamming, but for physical damage to microcircuits, or even insulation of electrically conducting parts?
In general, only the comprehensive nature of the fight against small
UAVs from a soldier's shotgun to powerful weapons guarantee success.

[mark1]

Quote: Alekseev

"...guns are not a panacea..."
That's right!

In the vein of the topic of interceptor cats and other devices - everything has been invented before us, including against a swarm of drones. The costs, by the way, are minimal )))

[d ^ Amir]

Do you know about the loading speed of such a he.. girl.. push.. artillery???

[mark1]

A flock of geese/ducks/drones is brought together at one time, respectively, two ducklings - two flocks, three - three flocks, four...
But this is a joke based on the cat-interceptor (although it works)

[d ^ Amir]

that's also true... once a week one flock, the second week another...

[mark1]

Well, since you liked the duckling so much, it can be converted to a more rapid-fire version - breech-loading with cartridge loading, for example, or if you spend a little more, with a cardboard cartridge case. You can even adapt a mortar - "Vasilek" is the first candidate and AGS can do it too

[d ^ Amir]

Well, as a signalman I can't comprehend such depths of depths!!! But maybe a 23-mm aircraft cannon with a canister charge?!??!

[mark1]

This is also possible, as long as it works. The main issue is in the ammunition.

[stankow]

"Ducklings". 4th caliber

[astepanov]

I don't get it, I guess. Why shoot down a drone on fiber optics? It's much easier to break this fiber. With a good spinning rod, casting a spoon 60 m is not a problem. And you don't need to hit the drone, but throw the weight with the "cat" on the line through the fiber optic cable. The cable will inevitably be torn. Regular line is inexpensive, 0,3 mm thick is quite enough. Spinning is nonsense, of course, but you can use devices like a flare gun, and the line - on a simplified inertialess reel.
By the way, it doesn't matter whether the cable itself is visible or not. The main thing is to see the direction of movement and the height of the drone.

[newtc7]

Smells like nonsense, to be honest. How do you imagine this: a drone flies at you from the front, that is, it has a fiber behind it, you need to manage to run around it from behind and do what you suggested? Moreover, it flies at you and is about to explode. No, sorry, but this is nonsense and not a way to fight drones. On top of that, who said that it only uses fiber and cannot be controlled by radio signal? You cut the cord, there is no radio nearby, and this same drone immediately kills you.
It seems that the only worthy option to combat FPV at the moment (well, except for EB) is to create an installation similar to an anti-aircraft one, but of a smaller caliber - perhaps to make a completely new weapon instead of using the old one - equip it with cameras and machine vision with AI. Because it is extremely difficult for a person to keep an eye on small fast drones at a great distance and even hit them.

[Mister X]

Shotgun revolver OTs-62 (Tula).
Drum for five 12-gauge cartridges.
It weighs about 2.5 kg, but it is made of steel.
It can be made lighter by using light alloys and impact-resistant plastic.
True, the recoil is strong

[d ^ Amir]

Good day!!! Unfortunately, both Saiga and Vepr were invented to load idle production in the absence of orders, now, as I understand it, factories work in three shifts and there is simply no place for shotguns on the conveyor, Tula and part of Izhevsk remain, but there the products were purely civilian and hunting, i.e. double-barreled shotguns. More or less decent way out of the situation, literate people have already found, shot containers for rifled barrels 5,45 and 7,62

[Zyablicev43]

During the defense of Port Arthur, the so-called machine guns were made in a handicraft way from five rifles firing in a salvo. Their high efficiency was noted. We have millions of PPSh machine guns in our arsenals and warehouses, with a rate of fire of 1000 rounds/min. barrel. Shooting at drones is carried out from rifles at a distance of tens of meters. The aiming range of the PPSh is 200 meters. 2-, 4-barrel mobile systems on light equipment with a primitive guidance system (listeners) and a sea of ​​​​fire. Maybe not a panacea, but it should work. I heard that Ukrainians They are starting to use light armor on their drones against pellets, but a bullet is not a pellet, and one hit is enough to disable the system. With a more effective guidance system, the effect is even greater. Mobile groups can have 1-2 shooters with the same PPSh and as attack aircraft, and let it be primitive air defense.

[BMP-2]

I wonder: is fiber optic so strong that it is difficult to cut?

[Seal]

Quote: Lech from Android.

More effective ways to combat FPV drones are needed...that's obvious.

Budyonny's or Chapaev's saber? I mean, if you let the drone pass and then chop at its cable from behind? Although, probably a regular scythe would be more effective. Especially if you put the scythe blade straight

[AAK]

The best means of combating drones is an anti-drone, but such units also need to have a high-quality detection tool. About 30 years ago, if I remember correctly, the Foreign Military Review published articles on the detection of helicopter-like objects, including small ones, using mm-range radars and UV sensors... the only question is how our powerful industry can master effective detection tools and controlled weapons, by the way, primarily in fiber-optic communication line control... Well, and the key phrase, in my opinion, is a sharp increase in purchases of fiber-optic communication line reels by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in "brotherly" China... this is another "carrot" to the question of who is who and how a friend...

[Kuziming]

1. The disposable drone has become an analogue of the transition to rifles two centuries ago. A new step in the development of the infantryman's main means of destruction. Now people without drones are like spearmen and archers against a rifleman.
2. This is another step in:
- increasing the range of destruction;
- increasing requirements for camouflage;
- the need for dispersal.
Previously, the infantry chain was seen as the limit of dispersal. Now it looks like something like a phalanx.
3. This is a manifestation of the tendency to reduce the number of combat units.
There were attacks by fronts, armies, then it came to small groups, pairs, now even a single fighter becomes a separate "unit" if he has his own access to the information transmission system and is a drone operator.


How will such trends affect the pattern of military operations?
1. Fighters without individual communication will become a thing of the past. It's like fighters without radios in WWII.
2. Tactical combat units will be reduced once again.
3. The technological saturation of the cutting edge will increase.
4. The concept of maneuver is devalued. All movements will be visible. It will no longer be possible to gain an advantage by simply moving large masses of personnel or equipment.
5. The role of updating technology and even software will increase.
6. The role of rear structures associated with the development and debugging of the latest technical innovations in combat conditions will increase.

What tactical decisions will be decisive:
1. It is impossible to modify the phalanx to resist the rifle.
2. There will be an analogue of sniper duels and counter-sniper combat.
3. Identifying "hornet's nests" of UAV operators will be the main task of reconnaissance on the front line.

[Ludoman]

There are no front and army attacks due to the absence of these fronts and armies, because some do not mobilize in war conditions. The troop groups are approximately equal in number, and they are too small for such a long front line. This is the reason for the positional stalemate; as soon as one of the groups begins to outnumber the other by 2-3 times, the front will collapse.

[Kuziming]

Here is another example of misunderstanding the changed reality. A simple illustration. For the movement of the army, you will assemble fuel depots according to the standards of even the 70s of the last century, set up a perimeter, barbed wire, a guard with AKMs... How long will your base last?
Ah, you will place it 100 km from the front line!
How will you deliver, where will you refuel the equipment? Where will you get so many fuel trucks, and how long will they last near the front line?
Like the fourth
The hard carried us
To occupy the mountains.
Baron Vrevsky-General
I pestered Gorchakov,
When you're tipsy:
"Prince, take these mountains,
Don't get into arguments with me, -
"Really, I will report it."
Gathered for advice
All the big epaulettes,
Even Platz-Beck.
Chief of Police Platz-Bekok
I couldn’t invent
What to tell him.
We thought for a long time, wondered
Topographers wrote everything
On a large sheet.
Purely written in paper
Yes, forget about the ravines,
How to walk on them.
Princes rode out, counts,
And behind them topographers
To the great redoubt.
The prince said: "Go, Liprandi!"
And Liprandi: "No, atande,
I won't go anymore;
You don't need a smart one there,
And go to hell, Reada,
"And I'll take a look."
And Read - just take it for granted
Take us straight to the bridge:
"Come on, hurray!"
Weimarn cried, begged,
To wait a little;
"No, let them go."
And we let out a "hooray"
Yes, the reserves did not ripen,
Someone got it wrong.
On Fedyukhiny heights
There were only two companies of us,
And the shelves went.
General Ushakov -
He is not like that at all,
I was always waiting for something.
He waited and waited for a long time,
I haven't gathered my courage yet
Cross the river.
And Belyavtsov the general -
He kept waving the flag,
It doesn't suit him at all.
Our army is small
And the French are exactly twice as many,
And there is no sicoursu.
We waited for him to come out from the garrison.
A column to rescue us,
The signal was given.
And there is Saken-general
I read all the akathists
To the Mother of God.
And we had to retreat
. . . . . . . . . . . .

[Ludoman]

Here is another example of misunderstanding the changed reality. A simple illustration. For the movement of the army, you will assemble fuel depots according to the standards of even the 70s of the last century, set up a perimeter, barbed wire, a guard with AKMs... How long will your base last?
Ah, you will place it 100 km from the front line!
How will you deliver, where will you refuel the equipment? Where will you get so many fuel trucks, and how long will they last near the front line?

It seems you have a misunderstanding of the situation. Concentration of fuel and lubricants in large populated areas has been going on throughout this war. How far is it from Kursk, Melitopol, Tokmak, Donetsk to the front line? The USSR managed to refuel a much larger number of armored vehicles, and did not complain about the lack of fuel tankers, apparently because it did not pretend that there was no war and everything was going according to plan. Here we have infantry attacks on the plantings, in my area the armored vehicles do not attack. Several waves of attack aircraft and a fortification group, and then that's it, there is no one to attack further, there are simply no people, they are spread out along the front.

[Kuziming]

With respect, I bow to those who are actually at war.
Perhaps I am misled by the information about strikes on equipment near the line of contact, including strikes on a car with journalists, and the occasional destruction of oil depots up to the North Caucasus.

Assess your delivery vehicles from a supply perspective:
1. Are you supplied centrally according to the charter, or do you purchase cars yourself?
2. Will you be able to increase the number of flights at least three times on your own?

[Ludoman]

With respect, I bow to those who are actually at war.
Perhaps I am misled by the information about strikes on equipment near the line of contact, including strikes on a car with journalists, and the occasional destruction of oil depots up to the North Caucasus.

The equipment is damaged, but not on the scale you think, 4 km from the front, the vehicle stood motionless on the road for 40 hours before it was discovered and destroyed.

Assess your delivery vehicles from a supply perspective:
1. Are you supplied centrally according to the charter, or do you purchase cars yourself?

The Ministry of Defense initially issued the vehicles, but after 2.5 years there was almost nothing left of them, and they have never issued any more. The bulk is at their own expense, with volunteers in second place. Even in the Airborne Forces, the situation is similar.

2. Will you be able to increase the number of flights at least three times on your own?

No.

[Kuziming]

Thank you for the precise answers.

In this situation, if we now simply pump people onto the front line, we will get, at the very least, a supply crisis.

Therefore, I am in favor of maximum mobilization of forces in the rear, in order to first organize normal supplies, communications, reconnaissance, and coordination with weapons.

Yes, rotation of people is also necessary, that’s true.
When the same people fight for years, it wears people out. We need vacations for front-line soldiers and missions for our heroic rear-line workers.

And most importantly, we need our own modern industry to produce optical fiber (we invented it), propellers, electric motors, and microcircuits.

Only people who have not stained themselves with nanotechnology should do this. Or the same people, but in different conditions, according to the rules of comrade Beria.

[Ludoman]

Thank you for the precise answers.

In this situation, if we now simply pump people onto the front line, we will get, at the very least, a supply crisis.

Therefore, I am in favor of maximum mobilization of forces in the rear, in order to first organize normal supplies, communications, reconnaissance, and coordination with weapons.

Yes, rotation of people is also necessary, that’s true.
When the same people fight for years, it wears people out. We need vacations for front-line soldiers and missions for our heroic rear-line workers.

And most importantly, we need our own modern industry to produce optical fiber (we invented it), propellers, electric motors, and microcircuits.

Only people who have not stained themselves with nanotechnology should do this. Or the same people, but in different conditions, according to the rules of comrade Beria.

To supply 500.000 people at the front, 15 to 20 thousand loaves of bread are needed; if a country is not capable of producing that much, then it is not a country, but a misunderstanding, and it is time to dig a grave.
P.S. This is of course very roughly speaking, in reality the matter of supply is more complicated, but that is not the point.

[Kuziming]

By supply crisis I don't mean baking loaves of bread, but delivering them using existing means of transport. There may be a lot of bread and stewed meat in the warehouse, but there is only one vehicle with some protection, and three will be needed. And three means regular flights, and easier conditions for defeat by the enemy.

[Ludoman]

Quote from Kuziming

By supply crisis I don't mean baking loaves of bread, but delivering them using existing means of transport. There may be a lot of bread and stewed meat in the warehouse, but there is only one vehicle with some protection, and three will be needed. And three means regular flights, and easier conditions for defeat by the enemy.

I meant a car, a loaf of bread. This is the main means of supply + sables.

[cmax]

Quote: Ludoman

The Ministry of Defense initially issued the vehicles, but after 2.5 years there was almost nothing left of them, and they have never issued any more. The bulk is at their own expense, with volunteers in second place. Even in the Airborne Forces, the situation is similar.

Some appointed officials with and without stars have done some "optimization" in the Ministry of Defense!!! Almost like Pushkin... the queen gave birth at night, either to a son or a daughter! They wrote in Telegram recently that there are not enough white camouflage coats (winter came unexpectedly), supplies are from volunteers, but more is needed.

[Vlad2012]

In the DPR Ukrainians knocked out all the space fuel storage facilities, so they refuel with petrol tankers, driving them from afar. Probably five times it flew to the Ilovaisk railway station. Most likely there is little equipment, so tanker trucks are enough. In the USSR they coped with the railways, and last of all with motor transport. Because the air defense was more effective than now and coped with the same reconnaissance aircraft.

[Ludoman]

In the DPR, the Ukrainians have knocked out all the fuel storage facilities, so they refuel with gas trucks, driving them from afar. It probably flew in five times at the Ilovaisk railway station. There is probably little equipment, so tanker trucks are enough. In the USSR, they coped with the railways, and last of all, with motor transport. Because the air defense was more effective than now and coped with the same reconnaissance aircraft.

Progress has come a long way since then, now there are many trucks with tanks that can carry huge volumes of fuel, engines have become much more powerful. USSR ZIS trucks could carry 3-4 tons, now a truck can handle 30 tons.

[novel66]

And.. Nothing has changed...

[alexoff]

Tell me, in the seventies, did the enemy have anything to attack fuel trucks a hundred kilometers from the front? Probably in those days, the Americans could only fight with sapper shovels and M16s?

[bk0010]

Quote from alexoff

Tell me, in the seventies, did the enemy have anything to attack fuel trucks with a hundred kilometers from the front?

In the 70s, they were planning to reach the English Channel by "glass" in 2 weeks. Fuel trucks a hundred kilometers from the front could only be attacked by NATO Air Forces, for which there were USSR Air Defense Forces and Air Defense Forces of the ground forces. No one would shoot at fuel trucks with missiles - it was expensive. And most of the missiles were nuclear - they were expensive.

[alexoff]

Quote: bk0010

In the 70s, they were planning to walk across the glass to the English Channel in 2 weeks.

well, on the other hand, all sorts of Pershings and Lances were ready, which would hit not individual fuel trucks, but immediately at the concentration points

Quote: bk0010

Fuel trucks a hundred kilometers from the front could only be attacked by NATO Air Forces, for which there were USSR Air Defense Forces and Ground Forces Air Defense Forces.

The Americans in Vietnam and around Israel got a little more adept at fighting air defense and operating in air defense conditions. They could somehow churn out all sorts of high-tech Cobras and Phantoms by the hundreds and not wring their hands over the losses, saying - there's air defense there, we don't fly there anymore.

Quote: bk0010

Nobody would fire missiles at fuel trucks - it would be expensive.

I think for fuel tankers there would be TOWs from a helicopter, they are cheap and non-nuclear

[Kuziming]

Do you have a world war or a limited conflict?
There was no peace, I can’t say anything about the shovels and trampolines.
In Afghanistan, in general, the convoys coped, although there were cases of successful ambushes by the mujahideen. If they had drones, there would be no chance of normal supplies.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Statistics for Afghanistan do not look so optimistic; 11 thousand lost vehicles over 10 years is not so little.

[alexoff]

If the Mujahideen had drones, then the USSR would have them too. And then the Mujahideen would have nothing at all, the USSR still knew how to fight, the Soviet army was not about parades, formations that have no analogues, temples and theft, but about war

[Alexey Lantukh]

Attacks by fronts and armies are absent due to the absence of these fronts and armies,

That's true. Somehow the question is not discussed: what if the attacking large and sufficiently armed group attacks with good support: anti-drone protection, conventional air defense, communications at all levels, strong electronic warfare, camouflage of everything and everyone, false columns. Moreover, it does not accumulate for weeks before the attack, but 1-2 days and forward. Is success possible in this case?
It is clear that all equipment and weapons in all sectors must be available, and the fighters must be trained. Well, if something is missing, then the chances of success are certainly reduced.

[Vladimir-TTT]

That's right. Now drones are chasing individual fighters, not to mention equipment.
Since a relatively small unit is going on the offensive, and the location of the drone operators is not being processed by artillery or is being processed relatively "softly".
During the Great Patriotic War, if combat groups comparable to today's had advanced against defenses with anti-tank guns, machine guns, and snipers, everything would have been very similar - tanks would have been burned, and infantry would have been knocked out by snipers at distant approaches.
However, they also attacked and broke through the defense - tactics and strategy.

[Alexey Lantukh]

Now drones are chasing individual fighters, not to mention equipment.
Since a relatively small unit is going on the offensive, and the location of the drone operators is not being processed by artillery or is being processed relatively "softly".

The latest news from the Kursk front showed that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were well equipped with electronic warfare systems and our regular radio-controlled drones were unable to do anything. Fiber optics came to the rescue, since the Ukrainian Armed Forces do not yet have a full-fledged defense against them. This event is a lesson for our troops as well. Soon the Ukrainian Armed Forces will have a lot of fiber optics.

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

The latest news from the Kursk front showed that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were well equipped with electronic warfare systems and our regular radio-controlled drones were unable to do anything.

But "all three tanks" went on the offensive - and there were dozens of drones against them.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You ask questions to which you know the answers. The Ukrainian Armed Forces have successfully attacked twice, once near Kharkov, and the second time in the Kursk region. And there is an unsuccessful experience of attack in the Zaporizhzhya region. That is, large offensive operations are possible, but there are nuances.

[bk0010]

Quote: Ludoman

because some people do not carry out mobilization in war conditions.

Someone tried to carry out mobilization. Do you remember how it ended? A million and a bit fled the country, another million (??? this is not exact) fled from production (where there is a military registration office, but no armor). And the main thing is that they could not properly supply these 300000, 1.5 million sets of uniforms disappeared somewhere. There were only enough AKs for everyone, and radios, body armor, first aid kits did not come from the Ministry of Defense warehouses. What other mobilization, first you need to organize the rear service, create reserves, prepare commanders, equipment, etc. After all, even the AKs were enough by a miracle: the Ministry of Defense began to sell old AKs and SVDs for conversion into civilian carbines.

[Gnefredov]

To all of the above, we need to add cyber troops that will hack the enemy’s operational and tactical local networks.
Bang, and you're looking at the battlefield through enemy monitors and cameras. Bang number two, and you're giving false commands to the enemy.

P.S. Once I was laughed at here for describing the drone-mother, but this is how it turns out.

[cat Rusich]

Quote from Kuziming

1. The disposable drone has become an analogue of the transition to rifles two centuries ago. A new step in the development of the infantryman's main means of destruction. Now people without drones are like spearmen and archers against a rifleman.

Drone = a fist that punches...
We (Russia) just take the blows to the "body" or try to dodge
You can do a "painful hold" on the "arm" - break this arm at the "joint" - destroy bridges, railway junctions on the way to the front (drones don't fly to the front lines on their own...)
Even better would be "knockout" or even better fatal a blow to the "head"...
If we start comparing the article, then we need to move on to rifled artillery - shoot at to the command headquarters "cartridges" from afar and immediately with shells (Daggers, Kalibrs, Iskanders, Oreshniki...)

[guest]

Quote: cat Rusich

Even better would be a "knockout" or even better a fatal blow to the "head"...

This is all correct, but you understand that these are “not our” methods.

[newtc7]

Yes, this all sounds very much like the truth. I would also add "the negative impact of troop concentrations due to the destruction of columns and crowds of people by high-precision cluster munitions."
And here is another difference, that before an infantryman could not hit equipment with his main weapon - a machine gun, but now an infantryman with a drone can easily hit even the most protected Western tanks in 2-3 "shots".
And then either the equipment stops being armored because there is no particular point and the emphasis is on speed and maneuverability (the same motorcycles) or the armor of the equipment changes taking into account drones, i.e. uniform on all sides and protecting from RPG-7 grenades and the like.

[Leomobil]

In general, the line of thought is correct, but superficial. Well, for example, if archers had body armor, and spearmen had bulletproof shields, or they were pushing a wall of logs, for example, I mean that the counteraction could be simpler. Regarding the reduction of separate tactical units, this is the biggest problem today. And the problem is not in the charter, or tactical techniques, there are no authoritative centers of analysis, GRAU is not able to formulate tasks, and there is the same problem with other major players,

[Nikolay Malyugin]

Enough simplicity for every wise man. When a Swiss rapid-fire cannon for combating drones appeared on the Internet a few years ago, everyone laughed together. They laughed because they did not yet expect all the danger from these drones. I think that every combat crew should have at least one shotgun. And they correctly pointed out here that this is not a panacea "for mosquito infection". Some things should be taken from the past (there were enough developments). And some things should be thought up ourselves.

[Kuziming]

When Bayraktars were used in the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, I called for the urgent development of an "anti-drone gun" at discussions, intuitively understandable to use for every shepherd. But the hat-throwers only laughed contemptuously. They did not even admit the idea that drones could somehow influence the situation in the conflict in the east of the former Ukraine.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Bayraktars and FPV drones are completely different types of drones. They knew how to fight large drones. But small ones that drop FOGs and also FPV are a completely different type of threat.

[newtc7]

Well, you can’t shoot down Bayraktars with such guns; regular air defense works better against them because they are large, noticeable and expensive drones.

[paul3390]

I have already made a suggestion, of course as a temporary one. Homemade methods of making a cartridge with an approximate container opening at a certain distance have long been known, I think that factory-made ones can be noticeably more reliable. Take a long-barreled semiautomatic shotgun like the Murka with a magazine extender, and load, say, 8 pieces of two different cartridges. With a container opening at 100 m, 70, 50 and just buckshot. Yes - most likely the opening distance will be very approximate, well, to hell with it. The main thing is that by machine-gunning a drone we will get a virtually elongated cloud of pellets, from which at least something, but definitely will hit...

It is only necessary to conduct a series of experiments on opening. And to start production of such cartridges, preferably in cases of different colors according to the distance. And in a package of 8 pieces one after another, so that in battle you do not think about what you are shoving into the magazine, but stupidly open and throw in one by one.

All these Veprs and Saigas are firstly heavy, secondly with short barrels. Which is not very good for a smoothbore. Although - if you shoot with the right containers... In general - you have to try..
But anyway, shooting off-hand with a sight on the barrel rail is noticeably more convenient with the Murka.

[Kuziming]

The downside is that the sensory response will give you about three seconds to act. And then, no matter what, drones will attack from different directions in pairs and threes.

[paul3390]

Of course, this is not a solution, but only a palliative... But it is better than nothing at all...

[Leomobil]

0.3 seconds, drone visibility in open areas for shooting with an open sight is 200 m.

[KCA]

Whose reaction time is 3 seconds? I haven't hunted drones, only ducks, it takes less than a second, that's if you're not looking in the direction you're looking, and if you're facing the front, it's a split second, you'll oversleep - at best you'll just spray it with pellets as it flies away

[Kuziming]

The problem is that people there don’t hunt ducks, but travel in loaves of bread, drag heavy loads, evacuate the wounded, and don’t wait for a saucer to appear.

[KCA]

What senses can you use to notice that a drone is flying at you while in a loaf? If there is a danger of a drone attack, some are dragging the wounded or the cargo, and the other is covering, as if there is something to be afraid of even without a drone on the LBS

[Kuziming]

Di ernst kolonne marchit!
Well, now you know everything, I am calm now.

[Adrey]

Quote: paul3390

With container opening at 100m, 70, 50 and just buckshot.

All containers open equally at 10-15 meters.

Quote: paul3390

All these Veprs and Saigas are, firstly, heavy, and secondly, have short barrels.

There are some with quite long ones. And the weight is the price for it. reliability AK automatics. This is precisely one of the advantages of smoothbore AKs over classic shot semiautomatics. You won't argue that they are very sensitive to contamination, will you? And in the "trenches", this is very important.

[paul3390]

All containers open equally at 10-15 meters.

Store-bought ones - yes. But if you do some tinkering...

Have you ever held a Vepr with a long barrel? Exactly. I have, and even shot.
You won't need reliability if you miss the drone with this fool... And Murka isn't that gentle.. I haven't noticed any particular sensitivity to dirt. But if that's the case - good, get a pump or an inertia reel.

[Adrey]

Quote: paul3390

Store-bought ones - yes. But if you do some tinkering...

What's the point? Real shooting with shot (and against the FVP drone larger than 0-1 is not really necessary) up to 50 meters. Of course, you can not douse with large buckshot at 70, but with large at 100, but the probability of hitting will decrease by orders of magnitude.

Quote: paul3390

Have you ever held a Vepr with a long barrel?

I held it. It's not a cake, of course, but it's not much different from the Murka with an extended magazine. It's also a real "paddle" in terms of weight distribution.

Quote: paul3390

But if that's the case, then good, take a pump or an inertial reel.

It takes longer to get used to the pump, but yes - "reliable as a Swiss watch". There is such a unit - SPAS-15. It is fed by a magazine like the Molotov, but has a handguard in case of a delay like the pump.

[Adrey]

What I definitely agree with is that the Molotov sights are unsuitable for shooting "in flight". The bar is long forever.

[Bongo]

Electronic warfare will be useless against Ukrainian FPV drones on fiber optics: shotguns are needed – lots of them

I have a question for the author, he himself hunted with a smoothbore, and how does he propose using shotguns to protect equipment on the march and on the battlefield?

The shotgun is a last resort weapon for infantry. However, it is worth understanding that an infantryman with a smoothbore is largely devalued as a combat unit in a unit.

For self-defense, the equipment needs an automated turret with a good optoelectronic guidance system, capable of firing without the participation of the crew.

An advanced strike and reconnaissance system is capable of eliminating or minimizing the unmanned threat to the LBS, but this requires a completely different level of technological development, organizational approach and personnel decisions that are impossible in the Lao army.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bongo

For self-defense, the equipment needs an automated turret with a good optoelectronic guidance system, capable of firing without the participation of the crew.

The enemy already has them, albeit in limited production.

[S. Viktorovich]

A good detector, automatic targeting is the surest way to counter small mass drones.

[tatarin1972]

Can you imagine the reaction time and the activation of the complex's drives? In the field, the area of ​​a hemisphere with a radius of 100 m is 125660 square meters. Of course, I understand that with a decrease in range, the range of weapon transfer decreases, but with a high saturation of enemy drones, these turrets will not be able to clear the air.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Can you imagine that there are APS capable of counteracting ATGMs? The speed there is ten times higher and, surprisingly, it works. And you are talking about how difficult it is to repel an attack by an object flying at a speed ten times slower!

[tatarin1972]

There are, but somehow in the SVO zone there is no "Arena", "Fan", or "Drozd". And how to protect the infantry?

[Kerensky]

Can you imagine the reaction time and response time of the complex’s drives?

Well, a kind of hedgehog made of rocket launcher cartridges with electric ignition. The cartridge that is "to the drone" is triggered. Then the complex turns a little, but this is not critical.

[tatarin1972]

What will the recharge be like?

[Kerensky]

What will the recharge be like?

Manual, of course. Why complicate things? Yes, with the crew exiting the vehicle.
The main thing here is to fight back. And not to overcomplicate the design.

[tatarin1972]

Like the "cloud" mortars?

[Kerensky]

Like the "cloud" mortars?

Yes. But they themselves are smaller (for 4 caliber cartridges) and are located in a single block in "slices" (like half an orange). In the "slice" the barrels are located at small angles. The rotating mechanism is a step type. It is needed to shift the discharged sections when drones try to attack from one direction.

[paul3390]

with a good optoelectronic guidance system

I'm afraid it's too small an object, it will be difficult to select from the same birds...

[Bongo]

Quote: paul3390

I'm afraid it's too small an object, it will be difficult to select from the same birds...

Modern digital cameras easily select different objects. Besides, I doubt that crows will dive at the equipment.

[paul3390]

Not at all easy, I assure you. And as for diving - of course they won't, but we need to hit the drone from as far away as possible? Well, will the crows fly around at 100 meters? Or even at 200?

The camera doesn't really care about false alarms, but if the automatic system here gives at least 10% of them, opening fire on the same birds... I don't think anyone will like it.

[alexoff]

Was it the birds you were so worried about during the war?

[paul3390]

No - about the fact that the iron weapon will fire its ammunition in vain at the most inopportune moment.

[alexoff]

Well, that means we need more ammunition. Besides, birds don't need much, they'll quickly blend into the environment.

[Saxahorse]

Quote: paul3390

Well, will crows fly around at 100 meters? Or even at 200?

Crows are much smarter than you think.
When crows began to be hunted with pneumatic guns, they disappeared from large cities almost completely. When hunters began to be driven away, the crows returned.

[paul3390]

I don't think so - I know. I used to hunt them with a pneumatic gun myself... But there are plenty of other birds besides crows. Besides, crows have a direct interest in the front line. You understand what it is.

[Saxahorse]

Quote: paul3390

The crows have a direct interest in the front line... You understand what it is.

Pay attention to the videos with combat contacts. There are no flocks of crows or birds in general in the LBS area. They keep away from shooting. If one or two accidentally turn up, it's not so bad, the rest will disappear after the first shot.

[KCA]

No way, in our city in the 80s they hired hunters to go on raids on crows, the incentive was good - you shot with your own cartridges with lead chaff, usually from the sheath of a telephone cable, and they gave you factory-made ones for your paws, and not all the crows flew away, they continued to scream from the trees

[newtc7]

And who cares about these birds. 10-20 of them will shoot down three and change their minds about flying where tanks drive. What a problem! If this helps shoot down drones - and this is exactly the option that should work - then 100 birds shot down even 1000 - it doesn't matter.

[Soldatov V.]

One of the directions of combating drones is combating drone operators. There is a range and direction of drone control. Both by cable and by radio beam. Somewhere they sit drone operators in dugouts, various shelters or in the field. So these places are processed, with various fire weapons, having thought through or determined with the help of the same drones.
For example, you can modify the BM-21 "Grad" to combat UAV operators. It can hit both with a bunch of shells and with single shells. Make a device for shooting with a large spread of shells over the area of ​​destruction, that is, changing the sight after each shot. You will hit someone.
Probably the soldiers at the front have already come up with effective methods of combating drones, so they need to be studied and the best ones distributed among the troops.

[Soldatov V.]

I remember there were gas pistols with cartridges filled with shot. Maybe they will be suitable for fighting off small drones at close range.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

It seems like there is already an assault revolver RSh-12, but it weighs 2,2 kg when empty. And again, we haven't tried it.

[hhurik]

There is a "snake cartridge" there, the gas ones have capabilities I remember killing rats on duty with one of these - it doesn't even scratch a parquet board. One kamikaze rat crawled into an electrical cabinet after being wounded and short-circuited the office, after which it fell into the basement and began to decompose there.

[Konnick]

Probably the soldiers at the front have already come up with effective methods of combating drones, so they need to be studied and the best ones distributed among the troops.

Why not in Moscow? Why not in one of the many military institutes?
I am increasingly inclined to believe that the SVO has been reduced to some kind of guerrilla war with the principle "Try this."

[newtc7]

Because in our country, under this supreme leader, and perhaps in general, we have a very bad system of governance. The system is simply dead in many respects, it does not work. Therefore, almost always Ukrainians all new things appear faster, the opposite is only when there is private initiative, here we have the same speeds, but everything connected with the state and ministries is extremely slow, uninitiative and stupid.

[sergey4791]

One of the directions of the fight against drones is the fight against drone operators... They are sitting somewhere, drone operators, in dugouts, various shelters or in the field. So these places need to be processed

That's true. But the answer from the drone operators will be: they will sit in one place, and the control system antennas will be in another, the connection between the operators and the antennas will be wired. It will only be possible to locate and destroy the location of the antennas.

[Soldatov V.]

This is too complicated for most operators, and don't forget the cable, the wires also emit radiation. Operators are also basically expendable. Take up a position, a few minutes, you are identified and attacked. And if they sit in a group, they will emit like an air defense locator, like a Patriot with all the consequences.

[Max-xnumx]

Optical fiber does not emit any radiation, it is a thin line spreading along the ground, it is impossible to calculate the position of the drone operator on optical fiber, unless the moment of launch itself is detected....

[Soldatov V.]

The conversation was not about fiber optics, but about the control station or smartphone from where the control comes.

[newtc7]

There is no radiation there. The drone operator on the fiber optics cannot be identified in any way. And even those who work on the radio signal are very difficult to detect; those people are not idiots and do not sit where the antenna is.

[Soldatov V.]

Please read the comments carefully, they indicate where the idiots are sitting and where the antenna is.

[newtc7]

What to read there, will help I didn't understand what ... Information from first-hand drone operators: they remove the transmitting device (antenna) from themselves, the connection between them and the transmitting device is via wires, there is no radiation from the wires, the operators do not have any radiation either (except for those cases when they decided to turn on the phone and the radio, of course), there is no way to figure out where the operator is sitting, you can only track the antenna and destroy it. But this makes little sense, because it is essentially a consumable. Calculating the location of operators is very difficult - through long-term observation of the movement of soldiers on the territory and this is only visual observation from drones.

[Soldatov V.]

If you are not an electrician you will not understand, and I do not give lectures.

[newtc7]

I'm not an electrician, but I fly drones and communicate with drone owners and I doubt that they understand this issue worse than you.

[Stas157]

about significant purchases by the enemy of fiber optic reels from China.

There is a simple solution to the very serious problem that has arisen. Agree with our ally China (that's what they write about it) so that it will not sell fiber optic reels to Ukraine and the West.
Another option: buy up all the reels of fiber optic cable for a couple of years in advance.

[Aviator_]

Agree with our ally China (that's what they write about it) so that it will not sell fiber optic reels to Ukraine and the West.
Another option: buy up all the reels of fiber optic cable for a couple of years in advance.

Unless we buy their products from the Chinese. But for that, this decision needs to be convincingly conveyed to several of our oligarchs; one won't be able to do it.

[Aviator_]

So I suppose that the minus-voters would be very sorry if the Sumerians lost their Chinese fiber optics. However, look how many Sumerians there are on VO!

[newtc7]

No, everyone just understands the complete utopia of this decision) you can't come to an agreement with China, you can't buy up all the reels. It's not even worth explaining why, it's too obvious anyway

[Aviator_]

Naturally, this is unrealistic. Now if Iran were a monopolist of this product or the DPRK, then it would be realistic. But this way - no way. The number of minus-takers is surprising - it's time to get used to it, but I can't.

[newtc7]

Well, when people see a proposed solution that is obviously unrealistic, they downvote. However, sometimes they downvote quite real solutions ) everyone has their own opinion

[Kuziming]

I suggest you take a look at the photographs and drawings for today's article about the actions on the Turkish front during the First World War:
https://topwar.ru/256985-tureckij-napoleon-planiroval-vybit-russkih-s-kavkaza.html

The people in the trench were almost in two rows, shoulder to shoulder.

A chain, and even, it seems, with a machine gun - they lay down shoulder to shoulder.

This dispersion is normal for the era of the Napoleonic wars. Region - Crimean War.
In the pictures (probably still reflect reality) the storming of the fortress, attacks in dense columns. There are already rapid-fire guns and machine guns! There are already mortars! But field tactics are slowed down by a hundred years.
I am not trying to criticize, this is reality. The belated reaction of organizational structures to qualitative changes in weapons. A cannon or a machine gun can be accepted. But rewriting the regulations for it, changing the officer training system, introducing new reorganizations - these are decades. And victims, accordingly.
There is a similar situation now. Drones entered the battlefield without permission, they "didn't graduate from the academy". But they changed reality. And the regulations for this reality have not yet been written, there is no drone in the regulations!
But there are losses from it.
So whoever adapts tactics to the new reality faster will gain an advantage.

[Soldatov V.]

All military regulations are written in blood. The military are the most conservative members of society. And they fight with what civilians have given them.

[alexoff]

You'd think our military leaders do everything according to the regulations. Have they even read them?

[nepunamemuk]

until the "canned goods" run out, the regulations won't be rewritten

[MCmaximus]

Because everything should be "according to the regulations". And they are "written in blood". Many people write like that here. But it is no longer possible to fight according to those old regulations. It is simply death and defeat.
So it turns out that Chapayev, Budyonny and Frunze are all there at the same time and are giving the General Staff generals a hard time. Those who don't like our guys should remember the French.
Unfortunately, the stupidity and inertia of the military has become a joke, but this is the truth of life.

[Leomobil]

Until I don't remember exactly 27 or 32, the tactical method remained in the regulations. Stop, load, aim, fire. The company commander gave the command during the attack with a swing of the saber

[Fangaro]

"...Russian industry can potentially..."

Just not in all directions at the same time. And what is more important, drones, tanks or cans of stew, that's up to the government to decide.

[S. Viktorovich]

In order for Russian industry to actively respond to the challenges of the front, it must be freed from the mass of bureaucratic structures consisting of "effective managers" "regulating financial flows". Specialists authorized to make decisions are needed. The same applies to the ordering departments and research institutes of the Ministry of Defense.

[mark1]

So, sitting on the couch, picking my nose - canister ammunition for a standard grenade launcher, ammunition for a pistol-rocket launcher, PPSh, AN-94, ASh-12 with a special cartridge, a barrel attachment for canister charge...

[Kerensky]

ammunition for a pistol-rocket launcher

The simplest option. A little more complicated: with a piezo ignition, filled with epoxy. Fired - thrown away.

[Fangaro]

A drone, whether wired or wireless, is good because it can search for and find a target. Radars, lidars, and acoustic sensors are rarely used on them. Basically, this is optical detection.
It is difficult to damage optics and glass.
Is it possible to illuminate the matrix behind the glass? Is it protected from infrared radiation? Is it protected from radiation visible to the eye?

[stankow]

The fiber has a braid. It does not glow.

[paul3390]

I can imagine what will happen to the rifling after passing through the barrel of a structure in plastic heat shrink... After a few shots, it will turn smooth, and this sintered mass will have to be dug out somehow for a long time and tediously. I'm afraid to even guess about the effect of this on the survivability of the barrel...

[Luminman]

Quote: paul3390

I can imagine what will happen to the rifling after passing through the barrel of a structure in plastic heat shrink.

A shutter or something like that might come in handy here...

[South Ukrainian]

Quote: paul3390

After a few shots, it will turn into a smooth mass, and this caked mass will have to be dug out somehow, long and tediously.

Nothing will happen, at least for a couple of shots. The gas pressure in the barrel "blows out" the molten plastic, I think, without a trace. About a month ago there was a report from the front, where soldiers make and demonstrate the use of modified AK cartridges with shot. The clip is fired in a burst and everything is fine with the machine gun.

[Architect]

Is it possible to blow them away?
Some powerful fan on a tank or armored fighting vehicle with automatic detection of the drone's approach direction. And let's say at a distance of five meters it turns on and with a gust of wind deflects the drone in the other direction.
Or you can use some kind of Super Karcher, also with a sharp stream of water.
Or a shot at the side of the drone using an opaque emulsion so that the optics get smudged.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Architect

Or you can use some kind of Super Karcher, also with a sharp stream of water.

You have finally invented the KAZ.
They just blow it away, or they get a stream there from an explosion.
Well, and maybe some fragments, yeah.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

North Korean Type 73 Machine Guns Spotted in NWO Zone

But the photo shows their training ground.

[Ponimatel]

Quote: V.

The military are the most conservative members of society. And they fight with what civilians have given them.

And the civilians give them what they ordered. And conservatism here is evil.

[nepunamemuk]

canned food will run out, brains will increase
maybe

[wlkw]

Some EW are completely written off, in my opinion, this is in vain. As I understand it, fiber drones only work at close range. So there will be work for them, only in the rear. In addition, if EW runs away, then "classic" drones will immediately appear.
As for the means of destruction, laser technologies have not yet had their say here. Not even for physical destruction, but for damaging the optical elements of drones with short but powerful pulses.
By the way, about radio pulses in the normal range. As I understand it, the element base of these drones is not shielded, to reduce the cost and overall weight. If you give a directed pulse to the drone, there should be electromagnetic interference inside the electronics, am I right? Equipment failure, up to the destruction of individual elements.
True, there is one drawback to all this, it will not help a specific fighter on the battlefield much, he has a hard time carrying a shotgun, let alone a pulse generating station. This is more of a potential equipment for rear positions or some types of equipment.
As for detecting drones on fiber, I don't think they are invisible, it's just that the detection process is becoming more complicated. The blades will continue to buzz in the sky, so the acoustic systems will always remain operational, the only question is their effectiveness.
Also, working electric motors and equipment in general will produce a "spark", noise in the radio range. The only question is at what distance it can be effectively detected.
The same thing is in the optical range. As you know, drones have optics, and for their detection there are already optics indicators, here was an article on this topic https://topwar.ru/133235-podrazdeleniya-specnaza-poluchat-pelengator-optiki.html?ysclid=m5m2vewj8g22648484.

[Blackgrifon]

Not to mention that specialized equipment for combat began to be tested that year and our media already covered it. The question of efficiency and saturation (not a teaspoon often, but a lot at once).

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Each squad must have a fighter armed with a Vepr, Saiga or other similar foreign-made weapon, and he must also be armed with a pistol. Otherwise, it is sabotage. As an option, you can pull out PPSh from warehouses, if they are left. They have a good rate of fire.

[South Ukrainian]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Each squad must have a fighter armed with a Vepr, Saiga or other similar weapon.

Based on the fact that enemy drones hunt for each fighter, the task can only be performed in pairs, this is for infantry. That is, for two fighters you need to have one shotgun. Well, for the calculation of the weapon, for example, one with a rifle is enough.

[Vlad2012]

Calculation of fpv of a person three minimum, it seems. Where to gather so many people to chase after each fighter

[alexoff]

Well, war is fought in small groups. When a squad goes on the attack, by the time it gets there, they'll have time to launch ten drones. But our General Staff doesn't know how to concentrate forces. They were all sick when they went through this at the General Staff Academy.

[nepunamemuk]

fpv as sniper rifle
If you use it well, you can put down a company

[Winnie76]

And interestingly, no one has tried to burn out video cameras with a laser. It is clear that the beam is slightly defocused to increase coverage. An industrial version of a laser and a backpack of batteries on your back

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Winnie76

And interestingly, no one has tried to burn out video cameras with a laser. It is clear that the beam is slightly defocused to increase coverage. An industrial version of a laser and a backpack of batteries on your back

There are amateur tests on the Internet, when they tried to burn out regular IP cameras with a blue laser of 1 W or higher almost point-blank - almost nothing, a couple of dead pixels.

The matrices turned out to be quite resilient - hundreds of watts - kilowatts are needed here, but then there is a risk that we will also get hundreds of blind fighters and civilians, both our own and others.

This topic will be developed - no doubt about it, but it is not easy to do.

[Winnie76]

Quote: AVM

The matrices turned out to be quite durable - hundreds of watts - kilowatts are needed here,

Kilowatt is not a problem, from the point of view of the power source. Scooters/unicycles with kilowatt engines are already a reality. And in the pulse, you can raise it by a couple more orders of magnitude

Quote: AVM

then there is a risk that we will also get hundreds of blind fighters and civilians, both our own and others.

Active glasses. But with this laser you can water the sky like from a hose. Almost infinite ammunition. The shotgun is a rest

[Dmitri Troshev]

and add a microwave gun to the kit

[Vlad2012]

They will put a MON 50 or a homemade directional action on the drone. And it will turn out that from a distance at which you can take down a drone, the drone will take down the owner of a shotgun. Similar to LBT, a mass-impact core will appear, and hello to defenders with a shotgun.
There are no cheap ways to counter drones. Only through air defense and collective means of protection.

[Vladimir-TTT]

In the last picture the green frame is misleading.
The three-bullet cartridge is circled in the picture, and the single-bullet cartridge is circled in the table.

[Motorist]

Quote: Vladimir-TTT

The three-bullet cartridge is circled in the picture, and the single-bullet cartridge is circled in the table.

Indeed. Why did they give you a sleeper?

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: Motorist

Why did they give you a sleeper?

I have many "admirers" - these are those for whom the truth is like a sickle through Feberge.

[BAI]

Shotguns, or better yet, pistols with hunting cartridges are needed, but the future is still in electronic warfare. Because firearms are for individual drone destruction, while electronic warfare is for mass destruction. So to speak: swat a mosquito with your hand or turn on Fumitox

[pavel.tipin]

A counter-drone solution could be the creation and use of armored decoy vehicles, armored to such a degree that they could withstand a drone strike.

[Dmitri Troshev]

RPG 7 burns all armor, FPV are equipped with a combat reinforced part from RPG

[Volunteer Marek]

The "conclusions" are missing one point, namely, it is necessary to eliminate the reason for the need to fight drones on fiber optics.

[Pushkowed]

Here is an example of a factory-made buckshot cartridge in a rifled form factor.
True, it began to be considered rifled only in 2021.

[poluboyarinovpavel]

I want to put in my two cents. I don't understand why the simplest 23 and 30 mm shrapnel shells from the Shilok, Tunguska and Pantsir guns aren't used against drones? Moreover, shrapnel can be put on grapeshot for close combat. An FPV drone is a small, maneuverable, cheap target. A regular shrapnel shell, without any electronics, will be effective against such a target: shrapnel on one Tunguska gun, grapeshot on the other, and a barrage is ready. Of course, modern optics, drone detection detectors and electronic warfare are needed to boot.

[Vlad2012]

A regular shrapnel shell has a remote fuse. On which a delay time is set before firing. And in itself it is quite large and expensive. If it is based on the combustion of a pyrotechnic composition, it is also not very accurate. It was difficult to fire shrapnel.
It is forbidden to fire shrapnel with a "buckshot" setting from guns that have a muzzle brake.

[Pushkowed]

Option: development of machine gun and rifle cartridges (analogs of "Intercept") with a fragmenting bullet, the fragments of which are connected by a strong thread or wire. The main striking element is precisely this.

The weak point of fiber-optic drones is precisely the optical fiber. It is easier to shoot it down with such a cartridge than to shoot down the drone itself. The drone can maneuver, but the optical fiber is pulled along with it. A shot without a lead = a miss on the drone, but a hit on the control channel.

Can be countered by drone homing on the terminal section using AI elements.

But still, the most promising anti-drone weapon is another drone.

[Wayfarer_2]

I have already written more than once that it would be possible to make a smoothbore machine gun for 12/89 cartridges. Load the cartridges with 0000 shot or small buckshot. This is enough to bring down any drone. Why small buckshot? Because more of it will fit into the cartridge case and it will create a denser sheaf. And the size and weight of each buckshot is quite enough for shooting at a distance of 70-80 meters. And if you make the machine gun's barrel longer (850-870 mm), and place the buckshot in the cartridge in a plastic container, then the range can be increased to 100 meters. The machine gun can be placed on an armored vehicle or a pickup truck, on an ATV - yes, on any "shaitan-arba". Or you can make it lighter so that a soldier can carry it, but then you will need a second number to carry the cartridges. Make the machine gun feed belt. There are 30 cartridges in the belt. Shoot in short bursts so as not to overheat the barrel - the walls of the smoothbore barrels are thin. There is no difficulty in making such a machine gun - on the basis of the "Vepr-Molot", which itself is made on the basis of a machine gun. Cartridges of this caliber are produced by our industry now. The shot, taking into account the use of a plastic container, can be made from almost any metal - even from cast iron. So - if there was a desire - by the summer it would be possible to establish the production of such machine guns. This would be a fairly effective weapon against a swarm of drones. And such swarms of drones will certainly soon appear over the battlefield.

[Dmitri Troshev]

VSU already has swarms, but so far in small combinations, twos, threes

[Kerensky]

I have already written more than once that it would be possible to make a smoothbore machine gun for 12/89 cartridges.

Yes, they did it a long time ago and there are photos, but... it's not it!

[Wayfarer_2]

I did not see.

Quote: Kerensky

I have already written more than once that it would be possible to make a smoothbore machine gun for 12/89 cartridges.

Yes, they did it a long time ago and there are photos, but... it's not it!

I haven't seen it. Again - so what if they did something somewhere and it turned out wrong? That means they have to do it differently. So that it would be that. That's all. What could possibly be wrong there? Well, you can make a box magazine. Some double-row one, for 20 rounds.

[Kerensky]

What could possibly be wrong there?

Either Maxim, in terms of complexity, or the "Flame" larva comes out. A different cartridge is needed...

[Wayfarer_2]

Yes, and one more thing. It would be very good to load the cartridges with linked buckshot. Because in this case it would be much easier to tear the optical fiber through which the drone is controlled. And this is enough to shoot it down, because it will become uncontrollable.

[stankow]

Fiber optics are very strong. Stronger than the thread of knitted buckshot. Knitted buckshot works well against propellers.

[Escobar]

on the enemy's significant purchases of fiber optic reels from China

Here you have a friendship for life. This conflict benefits everyone who is not involved in it.

[gribanov.c]

We need scissor soldiers to cut the wires

[stankow]

MSL to hand over to everyone
..................

[Yamadashi]

Hello.
Now, pellets are great, of course. I shoot them sometimes, for their intended purpose. But a fighter needs to neutralize a threat, not hunt birds. In my amateurish opinion, it's much easier to throw out a cloud of nylon thread or some kind of super-strong wire. Let the copter wind it onto its own propellers. Special clothing works on the same principle, stopping a chain saw with threads.
The device is compact and lightweight, something like the traumatic Osa - this is for an individual fighter.
You can create mine traps in the area that are activated by sound.
Such things will have another advantage - they are non-lethal and can be freely circulated.

[didra]

As an anti-drone gun option, you can consider the ASH-12 assault rifle. And it is suitable for assaults.

[Angry_Soviet_Zionist]

"...The problem is that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are also developing FPV drones controlled via fiber optics. A number of Russian information resources report on significant purchases of fiber optic reels from China by the enemy..."

... M-yes! ..
..."brothers" the Chinese seem to be: there are "brothers" to all "brothers"!..
(...Or maybe it's just: Ukrainians, who squinted???!!..)

[Igor Korbut]

It is necessary to produce UAVs capable of hitting enemy UAVs in a ratio of not 1 to 1, but 10 to XNUMX

[Navigator Basov]

There is no need to invent all sorts of demonic weapons; there is the good old spear.

[P]

not needed. There is no government order, so no one needs it

[Miller]

Interesting. Has the issue of the Russian Guard handing over confiscated and voluntarily surrendered hunting weapons to the Ministry of Defense been resolved or are they still subject to disposal?

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

You can easily miss with a shotgun.
Regular jet flamethrowers are needed. One way or another, a flamethrower will clear 100% of most types of drones. You need to run away from high-altitude bombs. But a high-altitude drone is difficult to hit even with a shotgun. The cost is minimal, the effectiveness is much higher than shotguns.
I understand that this is business, but if someone thinks a soldier's life is valuable, I suggest using this option.

[Dmitri Troshev]

Modernized grenade for underbarrel grenade launcher, anti-drone
and the second option is an anti-drone drone or airplane

[Kostadinov]

However, there is an alternative to shotguns, albeit not a complete one, these are special anti-drone cartridges for standard weapons.

There is also an alternative to the standard weapon - special ammunition for shotguns. Both cumulative and subcaliber.

[Kostadinov]

Quote from gribanow.c

We need scissor soldiers to cut the wires

You can also cut wires with grenades.

[Avarron]

Fighting the investigation means losing people. Even if one effective drone shooter is lost for every ten drones, it will cause irreparable damage.
It is impossible to fight machines with human shooting skills, there is not enough reaction or accuracy. It is impossible to train even 20 percent of personnel to shoot with 100 percent accuracy, and in the fight against drones, less accuracy is not effective.
It's no secret that soon everyone will have a hundred of these drones per enemy, and the number will only increase.
Mechanized means of detecting and combating drones are needed.
From the very beginning, it was necessary to clear the electromagnetic landscape of the battlefield in order to confidently identify control centers, triangulating the sources of electromagnetic radiation in order to nip this whole mess in the bud.
Right now, I personally think it is necessary to use microwave and laser weapons that burn out the electronics and optics of drones.
In addition, we need tankettes equipped with radar and optical detection stations, armed with mortars firing 30-mm shrapnel shells with controlled detonation, operating in autonomous mode.
Without automated support, a simple infantryman won't last long against drones, no matter how many shotguns he has.
The time of terminators is coming. Not like in the movie, but the essence does not change.

[bk0010]

Drones on fiber optics can be detected by noise, I think that the power of a mobile phone to isolate the noise of the propellers from the surrounding sound will be enough. And for interception - remember about the knippels and make a similar buckshot for a shotgun (you will get 4 pairs of buckshot, connected with a Kevlar thread in one cartridge). There will be a chance not only to damage the drone itself, but also to break the fiber.

[Fedot]

To notice the fiber optics - throw off paper tapes (long, strong ones).

[Vadim12]

Shotguns had been needed for a long time. In 1941, generals considered radio to be just an unnecessary toy in the war, and some were in favor of cavalry with sabers at the ready. After the severe losses of good equipment in huge quantities, even the most hardened and conservative military leaders realized that communications were needed in every plane, tank, and headquarters for the precise control of combat units. They decided to solve it, but the decision was made (equipment was leveled in comparison with the fascists) only in 1943.
Old colonels and generals take longer to comprehend the situation, the concept of network-centric warfare, the saturation of the battlefield with drones of all kinds in addition to the usual weapons systems is apparently still unfamiliar to them, they need to figure it out, report, the report must be positive, otherwise they'll get a slap on the wrist... Over time, of course, the issue will be resolved, and the fighters... oh well, they'll give birth to new ones.

[Yuriy Filatov]

In fact, everything is much simpler. Since there is no war, and the rules for making decisions in civil time apply, the adoption of anti-drone personal protective equipment is impossible in principle. Our regulations do not say anything about drones! The company does not include regular drone operators, regular rebels, drones have not been adopted.
And then you need to write the technical specifications, hold a competition, refine the product, announce a competition for production. And for each stage you also need to allocate a budget, and the Ministry of Finance allocates it once a year.
In general, even if we were concerned about creating personal drones since 22, they will not be able to start producing them before 27.
What did you expect? There is no war, there is no hurry. Peacetime laws have not been suspended in military procurement.

[Uh Neuhov]

Powerful electronic warfare systems were deployed at Russian military airbases in Syria.
Then how did the primitive small ISIS drones sometimes manage to fly into our territory?
Russian servicemen had to shoot them down with small arms. At that time, they did not want to notice the threat of the future in time

Came across an article, March 2019. An unmanned vehicle has been developed to intercept enemy drones.
The invention of designer Alexander Konstantinovich Kuznetsov promises a real reincarnation of smoothbore artillery and light infantry firearms. His idea is as simple as all ingenious things. And it is even surprising that no one had the idea to do what our compatriot did.
https://rg.ru/2019/03/30/razrabotan-bespilotnyj-apparat-perehvatchik-vrazheskih-dronov.html
It’s a pity that the top leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense doesn’t pay attention to such projects.

[Parkheychuk_Alexander]

There are potentially other ways to combat FPV drones, including EW-resistant fiber-optic controlled drones, but we will discuss them in another article.

How about trying to test a Chinese anti-sniper weapon system on FPV drones? With the possibility of modifying it to combat drones?
Drones have the ability to "make noise" with their propellers and have an optical camera on board.
"...The system combines a combination of acoustic and optical-electronic equipment for detecting and accurately determining the location of sniper positions in real time, as well as a portable remote weapon control station equipped with a grenade launcher for delivering long-range high-precision strikes on targets with air-burst projectiles.
Presumably, the barrel and drum magazine are borrowed from the 35-mm QLU-11 sniper grenade launcher, which is capable of firing at a range of up to 2000 m."

[JD1979]

Nothing will speed up the supply of guns to the army like a good charge of coarse rock salt in the ass of some red-lampers.

[Vladimir Golubenko]

And remember the old days? They shot cannonballs on a chain! Two cannonballs are linked by a chain and the damage is - they swept away everything in their path! It is not difficult to make similar ammunition for the Kalashnikov.

[Dmitriy22]

An engineer's thought: and yet - a powerful laser pointer (better three) on a Picatinny rail of a machine gun, why can't it be at least a partial solution? Low weight, limited ammunition, quiet operation. Saw a copter, aimed and burn out the optics... A blind drone is a dead drone. There is no need for non-standard weapons and ammunition. And if you cobble together a device with automatic detection (by contrast or movement) and aiming, then you can put up a monument to these people. You need to hit the weak points of any equipment. Tell me, where am I wrong?

[Leomobil]

The drone's camera lens size is up to 50 mm (this is with a reserve for skeptics), but 20 mm is the maximum, so that from 50 meters you can aim a weapon in a 20 mm circle. You need a sniper's position. You try it yourself, put a 5 ruble coin on a rope, swing it and shoot, a very useful exercise

[Dmitriy22]

The eye of the plane's raft and the distance to it (remember the hooligans?) are even smaller/larger, however... they blinded. Hitting with a bullet in the presence of recoil is difficult, but possible.

[Leomobil]

Are you serious? Did you even see the plane? How from the ground through the window into the pilot's eye? How did hooligans jump from a cloud onto a dot?

[newtc7]

5-6 months ago I wrote in the comments that drones on wires are the future that awaits us very soon. And what do you think?
The downvoters swooped in and downvoted the post) the result is clear, fiber optics really are the solution now, the downvoters probably still think that drones assembled on the knee in the garage are crap and not the main weapon of this war. Well, many people don't have a brain, what can you do about it.
The next stage of drone technology development is the integration of drone and tank. The tank should be able to launch drones in large numbers from its gun, and also have a fiber optic drone that the commander uses to assess the situation and search for targets and - attention! TARGET DESIGNATION! for missiles (ATGMs and the like).
If we can overtake the Skaklovs in this story, we will be successful.

[Parkheychuk_Alexander]

The next stage in the development of drone technology is

The next stage of drone technology development is the use of a swarm of drones under the command of AI. An example, a plot from the film Angel Has Fallen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=132mWRtaffc).
We already have experience of interaction of a swarm (thousands of pieces) of drones at the show of the domestic company Geoscan (there are plenty of videos on YouTube). China also organizes such shows. All that remains is to equip these swarms with AI. I assume that many design bureaus have been working on this for many years.

[Alexander]

There is another tool - fishing nets, shotgun shells with nets!

[tchoni]

Thank God! After three years of pulling chestnuts out of the fire with bare hands, the dumb ones realized what I wrote about on this platform ten years ago: electronic warfare against normal communication lines in general and drones in particular DOESN'T WORK. Otherwise, "we'll put everyone in jail with the motor pool", "we'll crush everyone with Borisoglebsk"... "Where the beauty sneezes, all the companions will hang themselves." No guys, it doesn't work like that. Otherwise, no one would have been able to contact the Voyagers one light day from Earth due to the presence of a super-duper-duper terawatt-class electronic warfare station called the Sun eight light minutes from Earth. If anyone doesn't know, the transmitter on Voyager is only 40 watts. It's like a light bulb in a toilet. And the star named the Sun, from its (Voyager’s) point of view, is no longer much different from other stars in terms of luminosity. But it is fine. Let's get back to the guns. This was the solution to the problem in the first year. Provided that every third, or even every second fighter, will be armed with these guns. And not just armed, but also trained. Getting guns is not a problem. There are several million of them on hand. And a good million of them are semi-automatic and pump. Launch a program to buy such guns from the population, accompanied by advertising like "by selling your gun to the military registration and enlistment office you are saving the Motherland". No question. The people will drag you in.. He'll even bring some ammunition. Luckily, homemade cigarettes are still allowed here... But the moment is lost. Unfortunately.. Currently, the use of gladstaol in combat formations of rifle units can only reduce the severity of the problem, but not solve it. We need to solve the problem in a comprehensive manner. The equipment must be equipped with active protection means. Following the example of the Israeli "trophy" or whatever they call it. And don't yell: "Oh, it's expensive!" In a first approximation, this active protection is a motion sensor and a directional charge. Все. Nothing smart. For the Israelis, active defense has been very helpful against drones. Second. Snipers should receive regular sights like the "Smartshooter". The principle of operation is approximately as follows: "the sight does not allow a shot until the target is in the bullet's trajectory." This is really expensive.. But it can be replaced with simply high-quality sights and targeted “anti-drone” training. The third. Platoon-type units should be equipped with millimeter-range radar. In conjunction with the control system. But the ammunition for the standard 30 mm cannon should still include a projectile with a remote detonation or a proximity fuse. If anyone starts yelling "it's expensive" again, go to hell. A radar motion sensor that can serve as the basis for such a fuse can be purchased on Ali for 100 rubles. And they've been yelling and yelling about remote detonation for about ten years now... But it's still not there. Fourth and most important. A radio-technical reconnaissance service must be established at the platoon level, and this service must interact with aviation. If anyone starts yelling "there are too many bombs here" - go to hell. Because destroying two fools and a control panel is not expensive, but blinding the enemy for half an hour during OUR attack is priceless. Until this happens, we will fight as my comrade said earlier. "Three assault waves and a consolidation group... And that’s all .. And the people ran out..

[Kostadinov]

Until now I have not noticed anything anywhere about anti-drone mines. They can be developed on the basis of anti-helicopter mines. The same goes for anti-drone barriers - no one writes about this or I have not come across it.

[Antiglobalist]

I have said this before. A munition or system that creates an air hole. FPV drones are still heavy and bulky, an incurable air hole can cause them to fall to the ground. Put a powerful industrial fan on top of an armored one, and the small FPV drones will fall on their own.

[Antiglobalist]

Can a drone camera be damaged by a strobe flash? It sometimes takes a long time to adapt to changes in brightness, and continuous changes can blind it.

[gridasov]

It is worth considering that it is necessary to progress towards using a slightly different pulse modulation in its flow algorithms, so to speak. This will allow not only to receive a more powerful flow signal, but to switch to radically new frequency parameters. In other words, to move away from the restrictive levels of the modern element base of electronic devices. Returning to shotguns, nets, hunters is the way back.

[certero]

Drones must be fought by other drones. Other robots.
At the stand I will shoot down most of the plates. But when a drone is flying at you and a miss threatens much more serious consequences than annoyance, then it is more difficult to shoot.
And most importantly, as correctly written in the article, it is much more difficult to raise a person than to make a drone.
In general, it is already clear that there is no place left for a person on the battlefield.

[bug120560]

The focus of this author's publications on the topic of combating drones gives the impression that he writes exclusively "custom-made" material. Mr. Mitrofanov, what is needed is not shotguns or home-made shotgun ammunition, but the rapid production and saturation of the battlefield with special air defense systems with modern sighting systems. Look at the characteristics of the GShG-7,62 machine guns and at least the CHARON LIGHT 2 sight to understand.