Russia is creating a system for acoustic reconnaissance of UAV routes based on hydrophones

In Russia, work is being completed on the creation of a system for acoustic reconnaissance of Ukrainian routes dronesThis was stated by the official representative of JSC NPP Igor Potapov.

Specialists from JSC NPP, together with the Research Institute of Radio, are creating an acoustic reconnaissance system that will identify the routes of Ukrainian drones. The system itself is based on vector hydrophones, originally designed for underwater operation. The work is in its final stage and is scheduled to be completed next year.

The system has two levels of protection: near and far zones. The detection system is based on fiber-optic acoustic vector sensors (vector hydrophones) - the devices were originally developed for underwater conditions, but have the ability to adapt to other conditions.

- leads TASS Potapov's words.

Hydrophones measure both sound pressure and the speed of particles in the environment, which allows one to determine the direction of the sound source. With the help of this system, it will be possible to determine the routes of drones trying to break through deep into Russian territory.

These systems will help to more effectively identify enemy UAV movement routes and counter attacks.

— added the representative of NPP.

Comments

[Chifka]

Technologies don't age... They just improve.

[Cube123]

Quote: Chifka

Technologies don't age... They just improve.

Not because life is good. Sound is much more difficult to suppress than EMP using electronic warfare systems. And the EPR of plastic cases is much smaller than that of metal ones. But acoustic reconnaissance also has a strong minus. Electric engines are almost silent and their thermal trace is minimal.

[Selidat]

Warm, yes. But the noise of UAVs is not so small. Moreover, those that fly far (and we are talking about old territories of Russia), as a rule, are on fuel engines, not electric ones.

[Kerensky]

Electric motors make almost no noise

The noise comes from the blades. It is very characteristic.

[Fisherman]

The blades are not a problem even with their low noise... the problem is in the cellular operators who refused to place audio equipment on their towers... allegedly shareholders do not allow them to "interfere in the war". And so - I do not understand at all how developments from the beginning of the last century can take three years to implement... there is a 2-3 month job to manufacture thousands of 3-4 audio recognizers and connect them to a single network through cellular towers.

[Alexey Lantukh]

I once read that back in the Great Patriotic War, there was sound reconnaissance in air defense and artillery. And it existed in the Soviet Army, too. And during the Soviet Military District, there were rumors that something had already been developed. So, the details of the system have existed for a long time. The fuss of military research institutes is incomprehensible, especially with the deadlines. In reality, he placed dozens of mobile phones in the area, connected them to a network and sent their signals to the computing center for processing. At the output, he automatically received data on the drones' flight. In Ukraine, this has already been done, we are playing catch-up.

[Vrotkompot]

The Ukrainians did just that, six months after the start of the mass raids.

[stankow]

Sound reconnaissance in artillery still exists. It is also used in the North-Eastern Military District. Search for the Penicillin SZR, 1B75. The most modern, entered service in 2020.

[NG inform]

Is there any proof about the mobile operators?
In general, the laws don't give a damn about their opinion, and especially the national security doesn't give a damn, which could very well take away these cellular networks for such things.

[NordOst16]

Quote: Fisherman

And so - I don’t understand at all how developments from the beginning of the last century can take three years to implement...

The state apparatus is quite inert. First, it is necessary to determine the existence of a problem, determine the methods for solving it, and find the executors.
The performers, first of all, must develop a system project that will be effective both in terms of performance and economic parameters. If we distance ourselves from bureaucracy, then the developers had to adapt the hydrophones to another environment, write software for analyzing sound signals (in order to minimize the number of false alarms with the proper sensitivity). Deploy this network, make sure of its reliability, etc. I think this is quite a labor-intensive task, especially if it is not sculpted from shit and sticks, but to make a system that will become one of the basic ones in our air defense.

[Vladimir Yurievich]

In principle, everything is correct. There is just one small detail: the country is in an emergency mode of operation - in the mode of conducting a special military operation. Any system in an emergency mode can and should operate, if necessary, with emergency methods: quickly and from a military point of view, effectively. But two or three years... that's too long, don't you think?

[NordOst16]

I was also on fire with this at one time, but then I calmed down. I agree with you on everything, but there is one but. We are not a very rich country (although with GDP by PPP we occupy 4th or 5th place), so our resources are limited. Including management personnel, in my opinion this is also a state resource. People/teams who understand well how to properly organize research, prototyping, and then serial production, taking into account all the bureaucratic red tape, are worth their weight in gold. Growing a new generation of managers/administrators is long and expensive. Therefore, we have a deficit in competent management.
But what can you do? All you can do is believe that things will get better with time.

[Vladimir Yurievich]

Quote: NordOst16

...that's why our resources are limited...

There is only one truly limited resource - time. Everything else is a matter of setting the right goals, choosing the right tools and having political will.

Quote: NordOst16

But what can you do? All you can do is believe that things will get better with time.

For questions of any faith - to church!

[NordOst16]

Quote: Vladimir Yurievich

There is only one truly limited resource - time. Everything else is a matter of setting the right goals, choosing the right tools and having political will.

Look around you and yourself, do you see many high-class professionals? There are not that many such people, I think it is the same in the government. Choosing the right path of development, the necessary tools and organization of everything requires high qualifications and experience from the organizer, if there are no such people, then there will be no result. In my opinion, this is equivalent to giving money to engineers and scientists and demanding that they build a super-modern EUV lithograph like ASML in 10 years, which spent more than 20 years on it, while having a huge staff of engineers and serious experience.

Quote: Vladimir Yurievich

For questions of any faith - to church!

This is true, but given the lack of information about the real state of affairs and the absence of knowledge, all that remains is to check the word of those who work there.

[Vladimir Yurievich]

Quote: NordOst16

...with a lack of information about the real state of affairs and a lack of knowledge, all that remains is to check at one's word...

Most people do just that... because this majority is lazy, or, I admit, has no time, or simply has no desire to check any important information from two or three different, independent sources.
The main thing you need to decide for yourself, so as not to remain a simpleton, is to resolutely stop believing in anything, especially in something that is repeated on every channel and is not supported by facts. Faith kills reason...

[sagitovich]

At one time he took part in the construction of terrestrial television broadcasting towers.
I know that the towers are designed in such a way that nothing but TV transmitters can be placed on them. Nothing extra, even one kilogram, and of any size.
The structure won't hold up.
And those who give permission to place anything unnecessary, in the event of the tower being destroyed, will go to prison for a long time.

[fruc]

The system itself is based on vector hydrophones.

The VNOS troops are still relevant in modern realities.

[stankow]

The electric motor does not make noise, but the propeller does, as always.

[poquello]

Quote: Chifka

Technologies never get old....

Tsargrad. Moscow region
In Moscow, visitors transported a UAV in a truck
3 days ago
Belkin Alexey/news.ru/Globallookpress

The suspicious cargo was discovered during an inspection of the vehicle.
In Moscow, visitors transported unmanned aerial vehicles in a truck.

[Terenin]

Quote: poquello

The suspicious cargo was discovered during an inspection of the vehicle.
In Moscow, visitors transported unmanned aerial vehicles in a truck.

These Kozhemyakintsy, Zatulintsy and Vaisilievtsy demonstrate a great and winged love for Russia.

[poquello]

Quote: Terenin

These are the Kozhemyakinites, Zatulinites and Vaisilievites.

"Migrants detained in the capital - a truck with a huge number of "Lyuty"
https://dzen.ru/a/Z20UMX7nKAkEcFsk

[Terenin]

Quote: poquello

Quote: Terenin

These are the Kozhemyakinites, Zatulinites and Vaisilievites.

"Migrants detained in the capital - a truck with a huge number of "Lyuty"
https://dzen.ru/a/Z20UMX7nKAkEcFsk

The link does not open

[poquello]

Quote: Terenin

The link does not open

https://dzen.ru/a/Z20Man7nKAkEbdsP
the first one opens to "In Moscow, visitors transported a UAV in a truck"
both open, ?

[Vrotkompot]

A fake, there is no evidence in the article - only incitement of ethnic hatred.

[bayard]

Quote: poquello

"Migrants detained in the capital - a truck with a huge number of "Lyuty"

And yet these are extremely valuable specialists for the towers and "business", you will not force them to abandon the "peaceful" Wahhabis and "hardworking" terrorists. This is different.

[Terenin]

Quote: bayard

Quote: poquello

"Migrants detained in the capital - a truck with a huge number of "Lyuty"

And yet these are extremely valuable specialists for the towers and "business", you will not force them to abandon the "peaceful" Wahhabis and "hardworking" terrorists. This is different.

So deputy Vladimir Vasiliev (aka Alik Asanbaev, an ethnic Uyghur) saw the light and recently openly declared that, quote: “explosive youth from Central Asia are being brought to Russia deliberately... As if he himself is not a migrant lobby.

[Piramidon]

Quote: poquello

"Migrants have been detained in the capital - there are a huge number of them in the truck "Fierce""

"poquello", as always, in his repertoire - he's heating up the situation. Why add something of his own? On your link it's written in black Russian:

In Moscow, visitors were transporting unmanned aerial vehicles in a truck. The car was stopped by traffic police. During the inspection, wooden boxes were found. After opening them, it turned out that they were transporting devices that externally resembled UAVs.

Found something similar (maybe it was coasters for frying pans), and you already stuck the name in there

[BAI]

After the autopsy, it turned out that they were transporting devices that outwardly resembled UAVs.

Why play the fool?
When threatened with a gun - they write: an object similar to a weapon. When gold is found - items made of yellow metal, drugs - white powder.
In the protocols, no one calls a spade a spade until the examination has been carried out.

[Piramidon]

But the fact that they look like the "Lyuty" UAV is not written anywhere. Purely improvised.

[poquello]

Quote: Piramidon

and you already put the name there

) then quote

[Chromis]

They will name it specifically only after the examination is completed. That's the only way.
In the protocols and in the media - "an object similar to a pistol", in the indictment - "a short-barreled rifled weapon (pistol, revolver) of brand N, caliber X, manufacture Z, serial number such-and-such".
There have already been precedents...

[Thrifty]

What ideally should have been ready last year...

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Technologies don't age... They just improve.

This is ideal, after the budget is divided it will remain approximately like this.

[fruc]

The system itself is based on vector hydrophones.

In short, the principle is clear, the VNOS troops are being revived, who would have thought after almost 100 years.

[TermNachTer]

Hydrophones are actually underwater))) does the author understand what he is writing about?

[Motorist]

Quote: TermNachTER

Hydrophones are actually underwater))) does the author understand what he is writing about?

The author understands, but the main photo should be of a marine BEC. This is what confused the commentators.

[TermNachTer]

I didn't look at the photo, I just see the difference between acoustics and hydroacoustics. There are quite a few differences.

[Motorist]

P.S. I read more carefully - everything is correct:

The system itself is based on vector hydrophones, initially designed to work underwater.

[Piramidon]

Quote: TermNachTER

Hydrophones are actually underwater))) does the author understand what he is writing about?

And the principle of operation of hydrophones can't be borrowed to develop ground stations on this principle? This is what is written, and not about the fact that these hydrophones were stupidly, without changes, removed from ships and given to ground forces.

[TermNachTer]

We can borrow it, but the density of water is 800 times greater than the density of air, with all that follows.

[Piramidon]

This is probably why it took so long to adapt this device to the air environment, but the operating principle, apparently, will be similar.

[TermNachTer]

Well, why not, a directional microphone is a great thing and has been known for quite a long time.

[olegff68]

Technologies do not age....saw off the budget. On each cell tower we hang a smartphone with one working application - through the microphone to listen and compare sounds with recorded samples of sounds of different UAVs, cruise missiles, etc. In case of matches, an SMS is sent to the duty post. The price of the system is pennies, you can deploy it tomorrow. No thanks.

[BAI]

The khokh.ly have done it a long time ago. It works effectively. Why are we so late?

[Nesvoy]

One thing is unclear: why do we need this system if, judging by the news, everything is already going wrong?

[firemann]

Answered above: . With such actions, we need to take a closer look at the mobile operators.

[common man]

The work is in its final stages and is scheduled to be completed next year.[Quote] [/ quote]
Will it be created in 2025, will it be accepted into service “after comprehensive testing” in 27, and will enter service in 2029?

[PROVINCIAL]

8 horns, 8 microphones. Simple software. Internet. Linking all devices. The information processing center provides the control center to special mobile air defense groups and regular air defense troops in the approach angle. If there is a will and money, it can be done on the knee.

[Cube123]

Quote: PROVINCIAL

8 horns, 8 microphones.

And such a device controls only within a radius of two or three kilometers. The device is simple, the problem is in creating a network without which it makes no sense. And the problem of processing arrays of information in such a network.

[Kerensky]

8 horns, 8 microphones. Simple software. Internet.

But our enemies have turned off support for smart light bulbs.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

About simple software, please give more details.

[alexoff]

Our main thing is not to catch drones, but to have checkers - R & D, testing, putting into service, commissions, banquet, cuts, awards. And when will the system actually work? Well, here - hydrophones, that is, warning about a threat on the water. Do we have a network of hydrophones in the Black Sea or will enemy boats not know about the attack until they sail to the Crimean Bridge?

[sgrabik]

We need to move quickly; the West has long since provided these technologies to Ukraine, but for some reason we are only just now thinking about this.

[PROVINCIAL]

Interesting. I'm certainly not an expert, but I think that there is something to learn from the enemy. And most likely it will be cheaper. My comment on another resource from September 21, 2024 about the Ukrainian Armed Forces' drones - "Everything has already been invented for you. The Ukrainian Armed Forces use an acoustic system on cell towers. It is not difficult to install microphones on cell towers in Russia and connect them into a single network. Work out an algorithm for identifying targets, with the interaction of civilian services. In this case, after two or three signals from the sensors, you can see the approximate flight azimuth. I am now talking about motorized drones."

[Eugene 62]

The devices were originally developed for underwater conditions, but have the ability to adapt to other conditions.

Apparently, initially these microphones were supposed to pick up the noise of enemy submarines. Now they have decided to adapt them for land conditions. In the independent state, they are also trying to conduct sound reconnaissance of our drones. Microphones have been installed on cell towers. The direction of the target's movement can be determined by the sound. But is it possible to give precise target designation? A big question. The direction of movement is indicated approximately "there". Then groups in vehicles with machine guns move in a given direction and try to visually notice and shoot down these geraniums. But judging by the results, it doesn't work out very well.
I hope that our system will be more advanced in technical terms. Air defense will already receive precise target designation.

[Kerensky]

Apparently, initially these microphones were supposed to pick up noise from enemy submarines. Now they have decided to adapt them for land conditions.

Yeah... Have you fallen off your rocker? Density of the environment and state of aggregation aside?! Victims of the Unified State Exam, damn it!
What is the speed of sound in water (liquid) and in air (gases).
Comrades are brazenly sawing off the money "on new physical principles". In a year this Potapov will be wanted, and we will be lamenting...

[Alexey Lantukh]

What is the speed of sound in water (liquid) and in air (gases).
Comrades are brazenly sawing off money "using new physical principles".

Our geologists have been conducting seismic exploration of underground deposits since the 50s using the principles of reflection of sound (shock) waves. At the same time, they initially constructed mineral deposit patterns even without computers. So, initially, it was necessary to learn from geologists and submariners.

[Kerensky]

At first, they even built diagrams without computers.

And then the horror begins. When a person in a hut, in a remote area, where the helicopter has thrown him for a week, decides to check his mail on a satellite phone, and there... "Ksyusha, 48 years old, wants to meet you, is 400 meters away from you.." There is no time for seismic exploration, to prop the door with a stake and sleep hugging a carbine....

[Chromis]

We go to Rustor or PM, find adblock or its equivalent, install it - and are surprised by the absence of Ksyusha.
Do not thank.

[Sensor]

Apparently, initially these microphones were supposed to pick up noise from enemy submarines. Now they have decided to adapt them for land conditions.

Not microphones, but structure and software.

[BigBoss]

It hasn't been three years since the start of the SVO. NATO deployed such a system in Ukraine long ago, and we are taking a long time to get going, I hope we will go quickly now. It remains to solve the issue with mobile air defense, which, after detecting a target with this complex, will destroy it.

[Vita vko]

The idea is good, but damn, it's not just UAVs that make noise, but also small arms, artillery, and ground transport. Is it really that hard to create a universal battlefield acoustic monitoring system right away?!

[Sensor]

But damn, it’s not just UAVs that make noise, but also small arms, artillery, and ground transport.

It is easily tracked by the spectral composition of the received signals. There are plenty of noise sources at sea other than submarines.

[Kerensky]

Is it really that difficult to create a universal system of acoustic control of the battlefield?

It exists. You can even shoot a bullet at supersonic speed. And build a trajectory, i.e. catch the point of the shot. It is more difficult with mortars, with SP-5, SP-6 cartridges, with Nagant cartridges... It would take a long time to tell, better in a personal message...

[ism_ek]

The Ukrainians installed a mobile phone on each cell tower. When Gerani approaches, the phone wakes up and transmits data to the air defense headquarters.
It looks like they've decided to cut up our budget again.

[Mitrich73]

And how does it save from blows or not? How do you know about the effectiveness of the Ukrainian system? Ukrainians did they tell you?

[Zaurbek]

It took less than three years...in 404 they created something like this on commercial components

[Pravodel]

Russia is creating a system for acoustic reconnaissance of UAV routes based on hydrophones

Finally, that. The fact that UAVs can be caught by sound was already discussed at the beginning of the war in Ukraine. Now, apparently, they have gotten around to it...

[Mitrich73]

Radars, such as "Garmon", need to be placed on cell towers. 150 such radars will cover all directions from Ukraine. Cell towers have power and communications. By linking these detection means with means of destruction, such as helicopters, it is possible to significantly increase protection.

[Fangaro]

"These systems will help to more effectively identify enemy UAV traffic routes and counteract attacks."

It is good that such devices continue to be improved. Hydroacoustics can work well to guard air borders.
But there are more effective devices...
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, foreign policy, ideology, freedom of religion for Muslims, ban on gatherings and marches of supporters of Orthodoxy, Decrees and the lack of their cancellation.
And near Magnit and Pyaterochka stores, boxes of sauerkraut, dried apples, and woolen socks and mittens have appeared again. And the saleswomen are Russian.
This is where the budget has an unplowed field!
This will make it possible to finance the import of labor without using the budget.
And everyone will be happy. Almost everyone.

[gmss]

Quote: Cube123

Quote: Chifka

Technologies don't age... They just improve.

Not because life is good. Sound is much more difficult to suppress than EMP using electronic warfare systems. And the EPR of plastic cases is much smaller than that of metal ones. But acoustic reconnaissance also has a strong minus. Electric engines are almost silent and their thermal trace is minimal.

This tracking system is not about electric engines, but about aircraft-type UAVs with internal combustion engines. Electric ones do not fly long distances. What flies deep, flies according to a program at extremely low altitudes, which excludes their detection by standard air defense systems. Acoustic devices are just capable of this, the only question is their number (the more of them, the faster and more effective the intelligence will be) and we should not forget about their protection (we have plenty of saboteurs and just wreckers)

[ergh081]

Less than three years have passed since the country's air defense began to form. I am not surprised at all, because almost all large-scale issues in our country are resolved this way, both in the Armed Forces and in civilian life. We have been talking about the State Defense Committee for three years, and the language has become frayed and the keys have sagged, but the cart is still in place. The inertia is terrible, the system is sluggish, the management and bureaucracy are static and uninitiative, and often just saboteurs. The only decisions that are made quickly are about increasing fines for motorists, and what the President personally indicated.

[wladimirjankov]

trying to break through deep into Russian territory.

The enemy's UAVs do not try, they simply break through not only behind the LBS but also deep into our rear without any obstacles. For example, just recently 8 aircraft-type UAVs flew to Kazan. And for some reason no one noticed them or shot them down along the way. As if there was no air defense at all along the entire route of these UAVs, and this is more than 1300 km from the border with Ukraine. And these were not just small, inconspicuous quadcopters, these were quite UAVs in size, the size and shape of a Turkish "Bayraktar" or a training aircraft. How was this even possible?

[kig]

Apparently, intelligence reported on Ukrainian developments, and our generals finally decided that we needed to do something similar.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Less than two years have passed. This was the case in the USSR, it just needs to be automated, sensitivity improved on a modern basis.