The fate of towed artillery in the North-Eastern Military District

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The fate of towed artillery in the North-Eastern Military District


Woven from contradictions


One of the main discoveries of the special operation was the rebirth of an outdated, seemingly towed artillery. This surprise, it should be noted, was unpleasant for the Russian Army and was present during the first period of military operations. Later, the emphasis of combat work was shifted slightly to other areas of confrontation. All the attention of experts and military personnel was occupied by combat drones, primarily FPV. By the way, it is reconnaissance Drones allowed old guns, such as the 122mm howitzer D-30, 105mm Howitzer M101, 105mm M119, 105mm L118 and others, to become quite highly accurate weapons. A triune structure has been formed, headed by a gun, a quadcopter and the Starlink satellite communications system. It is worth adding only the Krapiva artillery fire control system, which can be used on any Android device. Without exaggerating its importance, we note the high efficiency of Krapiva in the realities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Unfortunately, we have to wait for a Russian analogue.



As the special operation unfolded, experts increasingly began to give preference to self-propelled artillery. There were several reasons for this. Firstly, the armor protects the crew and equipment from counter-battery fire. The Ukrainians were very good at this in the first months of the conflict. Secondly, the automated loading system of individual self-propelled howitzers allows for high-density fire, unattainable for the vast majority of towed guns. The third advantage of the self-propelled howitzer is its high mobility, which is of decisive importance in the event that the gun is detected by enemy counter-battery systems. When armies rush into an attack, it is highly desirable for the gun barrels to be self-propelled, rather than attached to artillery tractors. These advantages play a very important role in choosing the self-propelled howitzer as a means of combat operations, but there are also some drawbacks.

The obvious disadvantages of self-propelled artillery include high visibility. On both sides of the front, reconnaissance capabilities are constantly being increased, which cannot but affect the tactics of using artillery. For example, the long-range of individual self-propelled guns is used not to reach an enemy entrenched in the rear, but so that the installation can be rolled back further to the rear. Modern reconnaissance systems "Msta-S" or Panzerhaubitze 2000 are quite easy to detect and destroy. In the absence of appropriate caution, of course. And it is very difficult to hide even the lowest-profile vehicle from enemy eyes. A serious giveaway sign of a self-propelled gun is its thermal signature. The power plant, exhaust gases, track and barrel glow on the thermal imager during intensive shooting.


Self-propelled artillery is also a very expensive toy. It is no coincidence that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are experiencing a chronic shortage of modern artillery. NATO countries, even if they pool their money, are not able to provide Ukraine with highly mobile artillery in the required quantities. NATO self-propelled guns are very fat targets for the Russian Army, which has been repeatedly demonstrated by objective control data. The hunt for Panzerhaubitze 2000 and Caesar has become one of the priority tasks of Russian drone operators.

Opinion of the howitzer battery commander


Modern combat operations in the North-Eastern Military District have been static for two years now. The times of rapid breakthroughs are a thing of the past, and the Russian Army's offensive consists of a series of tactical crises of the enemy. The enemy is forced to retreat, but there is no talk of a breakthrough of the fronts yet. In this regard, low-mobility towed artillery occupies a special niche. A howitzer crew can remain at its location for months, only occasionally moving the guns to mislead the enemy.

There is much to theorize about the fate of artillery in the SVO, but there is probably nothing better than the opinion of a combat officer. The Internet has published analytical reasoning by the commander of a howitzer artillery battery, I. V. Pinchuk, who fought in 2023 on the northern flank of the Bakhmut agglomeration. This is a very difficult section of the front, where the officer worked with D-30 howitzers. All his reasoning boils down to the place of a light 122-mm towed gun in modern combat. The main thing that can be taken from the veteran's analysis is that the end of barrel artillery is not coming soon. Especially in light of the advertised FPV drones, which, according to some, have made a real revolution.

There is no way to stop or knock a projectile flying at supersonic speed. They have learned to cope with mines flying along a trajectory, but not with projectiles. In a short essay, Pinchuk points out the high speed of fire impact on the enemy. If units ahead request artillery support, then an experienced crew will hit the target in a matter of minutes, if not seconds. Quote:

"The second important factor is the time between the shot and hitting the target - the projectile flight time. Here, too, light guns are superior to MLRS, heavy howitzers and drones. When firing at a range of 6 to 12 km, the flight time is from 35 sec. to 1 minute 30 sec., respectively. What does this mean in practice? This means that, standing 6 km behind the infantry (practice has shown that being closer greatly complicates the work due to the easier counter-battery fight for the enemy by all means), we can provide support to it in 1:20 (1 minute - projectile flight, 20 sec. - aiming) - 2.00 (1 minute - projectile flight, 1 minute - bringing the gun to combat with aiming). In this case, the work can be carried out both aimed and suppressive. When working on suppression, the gun is capable of firing once every 8-10 seconds, with the restoration of aiming, of course."

As a result, we get an ideal means for fighting advancing infantry. A pair of D-30s can paralyze an attack by enemy units up to a company inclusive. Of course, if we are not talking about warfare in urban areas. A natural question arises: what is the advantage of a towed howitzer in this case, if the Gvozdika on tracks can handle it just as well? And here officer Pinchuk I.V. gives examples of the low visibility of his D-30s.

The low profile and relatively small dimensions of the 122 mm howitzer allow the weapon to be camouflaged as a pile of debris measuring 1,5 x 1,5 x 1,5 meters. The veteran recommends that after camouflage, it is imperative to raise a drone and fly around the battery location to ensure the success of the work. Of course, this will not protect against counter-battery work, but it will not be able to conduct aimed fire at the battery, but will only methodically work out a square. When the battery crew is in shelters, it is almost impossible to detect the howitzer through a thermal imager. Only by indirect signs - for example, by fresh traces of human activity. In the infrared spectrum, the weapon glows only after a shot.

Pinchuk briefly explained the means of defeating the enemy. The most "harmless" turned out to be the MLRS "Grad". The shells are audible, which allows you to take cover in time, and the power of the ammunition is enough to destroy the gun only with a direct hit. Next in terms of effectiveness is the high-precision GMLRS from Himars or M270 MLRS. The means are destructive to the crew due to the supersonic speed and the inability to hear the sound of the "exit". The officer claims that even under ideal conditions for the enemy, the high-precision Rocket deviates from the target by 6-10 meters. And if it works EW, and even more. Only a direct hit can cause fatal consequences for the steel frame of the GMLRS gun.

The most terrible weapon, according to the howitzer battery commander, was the 155-mm M795 fragmentation high explosive. This case is dangerous for both manpower and the gun due to the formation of large and fast fragments.

It is interesting how Pinchuk describes the methodology for combating enemy UAVs:

"As for the enemy drones' work on our guns, I don't have any comprehensive information. But remember, drones only work on what they see. Camouflage helps. In fact, if drones are hanging over positions, you can't work until they are destroyed. If a drone detects a gun, and even if it attacks that gun, you shouldn't touch the gun for a couple of days - they'll pound that spot. However, after a while, there's a high probability that the gun will be repairable after the shelling."

As a result, it can be stated that towed guns, especially light class, are very durable. Due to the comparative simplicity of howitzers and guns, repairs can be carried out quickly and in field conditions.


Among the obvious disadvantages of towed artillery, low mobility and dependence on the tractor come to the fore. As Pinchuk wrote, "the formula: quick change of position = success, this may be about self-propelled guns, but not about towed howitzers." The combat work of such equipment requires careful selection of the position and tactics of use. Here is the vulnerability of the crew, as well as the impossibility of firing under fire. In the end, we will give the author's answer to the question about the feasibility of a light towed howitzer in modern battles:

“As long as there is a place for infantry and unarmored vehicles on the battlefield, as long as minefields work, and as long as there is a front line in war, light guns will be in demand.”


Based on the essay "Guns in Modern Realities. Junk or a Bending?" Author - howitzer artillery battery commander I. V. Pinchuk
132 comments
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  1. +14
    29 December 2024 03: 57
    Unfortunately, we have to wait for a Russian equivalent.

    Apparently, "Planshet-A" and similar systems, since being accepted into service in 2019, continue to remain near-mythical means like the "Uran" or "Marker" robots, the "Altair" or "Corsair" drones, the "Derivatsiya" or "Zadira" air defense systems, and much more.

    As for the topic of the article, towed artillery is suitable for a static front, being heavily spread out across the front. Spreading out a few self-propelled guns puts them at risk, because one self-propelled gun can be found and destroyed. However, to break through the front, you can and should make a lot of self-propelled guns in one place, and not only them - drone operators, tanks and infantry, and in the case of reconnaissance concentration, the enemy will think how to dodge the shell himself, and his drones will also run out quickly. Does anyone think that somewhere there are wagons of drones lying under every bush and in vain waiting for a sudden tank armada in all directions? Towed guns are not very good at breaking the front.
    By the way, in 2021, VNII Signal made proposals on automation tools for towed artillery. If they were present in the troops today, the crews would be almost not exposed to danger.
    1. +1
      29 December 2024 07: 25
      Fast and deep breakthroughs - how much is that? 10, 20, well, maximum 30 km per day. Where a towed gun won't have time to go? They'll even have time to bury it.
      But the towing speed needs to be increased.
      1. +2
        29 December 2024 15: 37
        Maxim, 10-30 km per day is about the Roman infantry from "The Gallic War" by Julius Caesar and the miracle heroes of A. Suvorov from "The Science of Victory". The standard towing vehicle for the D-30 was the MTLB - its undeniable advantages include bulletproof armor and high cross-country ability. But the disadvantages are not small - when calculating the gun 6-7 people in a motorized vehicle, 40 rounds of ammunition will not fit. And only in the SPG 2S1 "Gvozdika" is it possible to implement a movement speed comparable to the towed gun, amphibious and armored - the D-30 does not have, 40 rounds of ammunition and a crew of 4 people, standard for SPGs, will not fit in every tractor, considering that we will carry the ammunition in a standard container, and not like firewood in bulk. In terms of readiness to open fire, speed of leaving the position, dimensions of the road train and SPG, the comparison is not in favor of towed artillery. And in terms of cost, a good tractor with a gun will probably be more expensive than the simplest configuration of the "Gvozdika". So, with all due respect to the work and opinion of the author of the article from the front, his situational arguments are unlikely to outweigh the global trends in the development of artillery.
        1. +2
          29 December 2024 20: 22
          Situationally, everything is correct. But this situation can be turned around in another way. There are pros and cons in both approaches. But for now it turns out that it is too early to write off towed artillery.
      2. +1
        29 December 2024 21: 09
        But he won’t have time to get anywhere when the entire D-30 crew consists of two fighters... and I didn’t come up with this while lying on the couch.
        The mentioned battalion commander said everything correctly, except for one thing... he did not touch on the issue of the manning of the towed artillery units.
    2. +8
      29 December 2024 13: 56
      Quote from alexoff
      As for the topic of the article, towed artillery is suitable for a static front, being heavily spread out across the front.

      It is no good at all. The author presents necessity as virtue. Nowadays, even tanks like the T-62 are used for firing from closed positions, and some even find advantages in this. But in reality, this only speaks of an acute shortage of self-propelled guns. Although they could have launched something simple into production a long time ago. How long did it take to launch the SU-76 in WWII? Half a year!
      1. +1
        29 December 2024 14: 09
        By the way, all sorts of Eritreans and Peruvians have extraterrestrial technologies for welding towed howitzers onto old tanks. But for us to have something like that, we need 1937 and send away all the military leadership, which does not like to strain itself, but loves money.
    3. 0
      1 January 2025 14: 29
      Any weapon is good if used correctly and vice versa. When a division of towed howitzers "dismantling" an enemy fortification is covered by long-range artillery or MLRS, what can stop it?
      1. +1
        1 January 2025 15: 48
        They may be hampered by the lack of external real-time targeting and accurate ammunition. And if they see a target, at best they are seen too, and at worst they are already dead...
        1. 0
          1 January 2025 16: 16
          What, are UAVs already gone? At a distance of 12-15 km, and without precision munitions, it is possible to achieve quite decent results, with the proper training of personnel. I repeat, howitzers are covered by long-range weapons and electronic warfare (this is not science fiction, as of today). Who can get them at a distance of 7-10 km from the LBS?
          1. 0
            9 January 2025 15: 57
            A 120mm mortar can easily reach them
            1. 0
              9 January 2025 16: 42
              At 10 km. - I wonder how? Not taking into account the latest news about Bandera's 120 mm mines.
              1. 0
                9 January 2025 16: 54
                there are not only Bandera mines there, but also NATO ones
                1. 0
                  9 January 2025 16: 58
                  As far as I know, our 120 mm. shoots at 6 km.
                  1. 0
                    9 January 2025 17: 04
                    yours, NATO's - yes, for 6,5 km.
                    our 2B11 Sani at 9,0
                    but the main thing is that UAVs have a range of 10 km
                    1. 0
                      9 January 2025 17: 27
                      UAVs have different ranges, including much further than 10 km. And if everything is so bad, then why is towed artillery used? And as far as can be seen from the photos, videos - quite a lot.
                      1. 0
                        10 January 2025 15: 32
                        because it has its advantages, see the article
                      2. 0
                        10 January 2025 16: 06
                        And as for the fact that it allegedly flies at 9 km, people in the know say that they only saw it on the Internet, but they haven’t held the SVO in their hands in three years.
  2. +7
    29 December 2024 04: 33
    Good, informative article. It was interesting to read. good
    1. +4
      29 December 2024 19: 55
      Modern military operations in the North-Eastern Military District have been static for two years now.

      Well, what else can we talk about? What are the author's conclusions based on? The SVO is the way it shouldn't be. We fight as we can, not as we should. There are no modern combat operations in the SVO. There are current combat operations in time. The high command has no idea about modern warfare and uses a quantitative, not a qualitative approach in everything. Yes, we solve problems somehow, very poorly... Is it difficult to reorganize during combat operations? Yes, but it is possible. First of all, you need to know what you want! And this is a big problem. Military science is in a stupor and takes an observational and evaluative position. But what about science, as a foresight?
      1. 0
        1 January 2025 14: 29
        Are you a general or an admiral?))) Do you know and can do how it should be?
        1. +2
          1 January 2025 15: 46
          The thing is that generals or admirals don't know this. And this problem doesn't interest them! Worse, it can't interest them. They're not interested, they're already generals. They can't think anymore. The main thinking contingent is senior officers with experience of service in active units...
          1. 0
            1 January 2025 16: 18
            Okay. Are you a lieutenant colonel - a division commander?
  3. +11
    29 December 2024 04: 35
    NATO self-propelled guns are very juicy targets for the Russian Army, which has been repeatedly demonstrated by objective monitoring data. Hunting for Panzerhaubitze 2000 and Caesar has become one of the priority tasks of Russian drone operators.

    Well, how could you take open data on deliveries of PC200, Caesars of both types and/or in addition Archers/Dan. Then go to LostAmor, check "losses of armored vehicles" and not write... all sorts of things... especially about "the undoubted disadvantages of self-propelled artillery".
    One can even draw a conclusion: "If you do it well - like the Swedes do the Archer (the French do the Caesar, the Czechs do the Dana) - and not like they do the Bogdana, then you get a self-propelled gun that is hard to catch."

    By the way, there is also something sound in the article - experience on the topic of "what to do if you have a towed artillery piece".
    1. +1
      29 December 2024 07: 32
      Quote: Wildcat
      One can even draw a conclusion: "If you do it well - like the Swedes do the Archer (the French do the Caesar, the Czechs do the Dana) - and not like they do the Bogdana, then you get a self-propelled gun that is hard to catch."

      And our newest Malva? Is she hard to catch?
      1. +1
        29 December 2024 09: 43
        Quote: Stas157
        And our newest Malva?
        Information has appeared about a new type of SPG "Malva" (it may have a different name) - the gun is not from the SPG "Msta-S" but from "Geotsint". The range of the active-rocket projectile is more than 50 km.
        https://t.me/yurasumy/20156
        1. +3
          29 December 2024 17: 58
          Wow! I've already received two minuses for information about the appearance of a new SPG. Apparently for someone information about new SPGs at the front is like a sickle in the balls.
        2. 0
          1 January 2025 14: 31
          Actually, it's called "Hyacinth", after the flower. If you're going to discuss the performance characteristics and application tactics, at least write the name correctly.
          1. 0
            4 January 2025 12: 27
            Quote: TermNachTER
            Actually, it's called "Hyacinth", after the flower.
            A sensible remark, one should always write correctly. But, I will note, the topic under discussion "The fate of towed artillery in the SVO" is purely technical, and if the remark was about an error in the firing range, in the gun aiming angles, then your phrase
            Quote: TermNachTER
            If you are going to discuss the performance characteristics and tactics of use,
            would be quite appropriate. But only a bore would scold me for the wrong letter in the name of a flower.
            1. 0
              4 January 2025 12: 34
              What can we discuss if even the name is spelled incorrectly? If calling a spade a spade is boring, then for God's sake, let's call Stalin Hitler. It's nonsense that doesn't affect anything)))
              1. 0
                4 January 2025 12: 43
                Quote: TermNachTER
                What can we discuss if even the name is spelled incorrectly? If calling a spade a spade is boring, then for God's sake, let's call Stalin Hitler. It's nonsense that doesn't affect anything)))
                No need to distort. The remark about the title is appropriate. But to drag in here that if I made a mistake in the title, then I have nothing to do in the topic of technical characteristics - that is, at the very least, tediousness.
                1. 0
                  4 January 2025 12: 54
                  And what did you actually say about the performance characteristics of the new SPG and the tactics of its use? Not to mention whether you have sufficient qualifications in this matter. I am not an artilleryman, but my former colleague graduated from the Sumy Artillery and rose to the rank of commander of the Akatsii battery. If I don’t understand something, I ask him.
                  1. 0
                    4 January 2025 13: 10
                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    And what did you actually say about the performance characteristics of the new SPG and the tactics of its use? Not to mention whether you have sufficient qualifications in this matter. I'm not an artilleryman,........
                    I see. Apart from a grammatical error, you couldn't see anything in my text.
                    I have no more questions.
      2. +4
        29 December 2024 14: 20
        It is very difficult to write about Malva. ((( Even if you look at the maximum table range. It is better to write about what a "collective farm" "Bogdan from the Armed Forces of Ukraine" is.

        You see, the big advantage of the same Archer is that it arrives quickly, fires quickly (the firing cycle is automated, from loading to outrigger operation) and leaves quickly. The fire mission is handled by a computer. Every second counts.

        And the Bogdana, which was "cobbled together" for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, is simply part of a gun (without wheels) on a truck. By the time they arrived, turned around, the loading cycle requires a lot of "manual work" - very long - that's why the Bogdana suffers big losses.

        Unfortunately, I can't post the video - YouTube, alas...
  4. +4
    29 December 2024 05: 15
    In fact, there is nothing that was known before the start of the SVO, neither in the article of the respected author, nor in the work of Pinchuk himself.
    Pinchuk's work is, at the same time, interesting as an attempt to generalize combat experience "from below" - something that we today are very, very lacking. Although, of course, we must understand that this is the experience of a person who fought with a specific type of guns in the conditions of a specific tactical direction, which on a front line stretching over 2000 km differ from each other sometimes quite significantly.
    In general, I would like to note that a comprehensive approach is important in assessing the role and place of individual artillery systems. All the advantages of towed artillery, including those described in the article, are revealed only when self-propelled artillery operates on the battlefield together with it. All the advantages of 120-122 mm caliber guns are revealed only when 152 mm and higher caliber guns operate together with it in the same direction.
    Therefore, in assessments or, even more so, categorical statements, one must be very, very careful.
    1. 0
      29 December 2024 05: 50
      nothing that would be is known even before the start of the SVO

      it is not known. Typo.
  5. +19
    29 December 2024 05: 29
    We still haven't created an analogue of "Nettle"?! After three years of war?! Excuse me, but what do our highly paid programmers who have a mobilization exemption do? "Create" long-ago created operating systems based on Linux, so that officials can then successfully saw off budgets under the "import substitution" program? And what do conscripts from scientific companies do? Wipe their pants, sitting out this miserable year of service? Or should these questions be asked directly to Belousov, since the General Staff has no time to deal with such nonsense, it solves strategic tasks in matters of global problems of humanity and the creation of reliable rear areas for the generals?
    1. +16
      29 December 2024 06: 09
      Quote: AlexSam
      Excuse me, but what do our highly paid programmers who have a mobilization exemption do?

      Someone has to formulate the task for them - to make a conditional "Yandex war" on Android so that one soldier could mark a point on the map, put an icon - an enemy ammunition depot, request an artillery strike. After which the system will find an unoccupied artillery system, immediately give the soldiers the elevation and rotation angles, and they will quickly shoot where they need to. The reconnaissance soldier put the appropriate number of stars in the application in response to the work. The target is hit, everyone is happy. Do you feel how difficult it is?! And this is formulated primitively from my couch. Generals do not know how to think so much, they did not earn stars to think! But all this still needs to be adopted somehow, and in our army mobile phones have not been adopted, Chubais did not develop them, so where to install all these programs, and so that only domestic components and some kind of communication also works? Here, attaching eagles to self-propelled guns was a whole problem that they couldn't solve for five years, and now look how many worries there are! And so it's better for Vanka at the front to somehow solve it himself, he has some ingenuity, and God bless him! And comrade generals won't strain themselves, otherwise what if tomorrow there's a world war, and they're tired?
      1. +11
        29 December 2024 06: 40
        Quote from alexoff
        Here, attaching eagles to self-propelled guns was a whole problem that they couldn't solve for five years, and now look how many worries there are! And so it's better for Vanka at the front to somehow solve it himself, he has some ingenuity, and God bless him! And comrade generals won't strain themselves, otherwise what if tomorrow there's a world war, and they're tired?


        There is no high-speed satellite Internet, there is no and will not be operational targeting. We need our own Elon Musk, not Rogozin.
        1. +1
          29 December 2024 13: 07
          I will surprise you, but in Elon Musk's SpaceX company, there are plenty of our specialists among the leading engineers. Why do they even exist here, but work anywhere but here!?
          Because they are paid well there and at the same time they are not shy about allocating funding for proactive developments. Not all ordinary employees of the same Roscosmos receive exactly enough to support a family. And sometimes, even a vacation turns into a complicated process of saving money. And if, God forbid, some force majeure (someone in the family gets seriously ill, or there is a fire in the house), then there is simply not enough money to resolve all this. That is why it is easier for our specialists to go to work for private individuals, and if their developments are of interest abroad, they will be generally happy.
          You can always talk a lot about patriotism and national spirit - but you can’t feed or heal your family and yourself with this spirit.
          It's the same in many areas of our country.
          We need to increase the birth rate, they talk a lot about having a child, about the payments they give for the 3rd and 4th. But in many places, having even ONE child is a problem. Because kindergarten and school are supposedly free, but every year you need to spend some crazy amount of money on children, since these organizations can’t organize anything at their own expense except for a place for the child to work. Even to go to museums, there are very few museums where children have free admission. Usually children’s is cheaper, but still paid. You have to stand in line for years to enroll your child in the school that he will go to only in 6 years (because there are fewer schools than are actually needed).
          In general, many people ask to give birth, but they do nothing to make it affordable for the parents.
          1. +1
            29 December 2024 13: 57
            You made something up about school.
          2. 0
            29 December 2024 23: 33
            Are kindergartens free?
          3. -1
            30 December 2024 00: 39
            Quote: Mustachioed Kok
            Yes, because they are paid well there and at the same time they are not shy about allocating funding for proactive developments.


            This topic has been discussed in Roscosmos for 50 years. Why come to work in Roscosmos if they pay little there? NASA faced the same problem, and at one time they created Elon Musk. Musk used NASA money more intensively and productively, which allows creating not only spaceships, but also advanced cars and orbital Internet. All this in general brings profit, which neither NASA nor Roscosmos are capable of creating. Roscosmos had a similar opportunity when NASA switched to Russian rockets and Elon Musk was ready to cooperate with Roscosmos. Only the dinosaurs from Roscosmos flushed huge amounts of money down the toilet and were unable to create anything within the established deadlines. Elon Musk had to expand production in the more expensive USA and he successfully coped with this, unlike Rogozin. Apparently, because of this, Rogozin was kicked out.
        2. +1
          29 December 2024 13: 17
          On a stable lbs it was possible to deploy non-satellite Internet via Wi-Fi or mobile communications a million times. Elon Musk just opened a new milestone in history with radio communications, before him no one could fight until a pigeon brought a note with the coordinates of the target fool
          1. -3
            30 December 2024 01: 00
            Quote from alexoff
            On a stable lbs it was possible to deploy non-satellite Internet via Wi-Fi or mobile communications a million times. Elon Musk just opened a new milestone in history with radio communications, before him no one could fight until a pigeon brought a note with the coordinates of the target fool


            Roscosmos had a chance to achieve in rocket engineering what China has achieved in electronics and computer technology. But Roscosmos did not take advantage of this chance, continuing to talk about low salaries. As a result, Starship is built in the United States, not in Russia, and Starlink is used by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, not the Russian Armed Forces. The war in Ukraine, in fact, is also being waged for this reason.
        3. -1
          29 December 2024 14: 23
          We need our own Elon Musk, not Rogozin.
          By the way! Where is Rogozin now? Is our Beria on the minimum wage?
      2. -1
        29 December 2024 07: 00
        Quote from alexoff
        someone needs to formulate a task for them

        We have a lot of bright minds at LBS, huge practical experience, the GRU GS in the end. During this time, it is already possible to tweak and fulfill such a technical task, the "partners" would be envious! And for this business, gadgets would already go, demand creates supply. But you are right, military leaders with one convolution from the caps are not given this by nature, and for businessmen from and under the military-industrial complex, this is economically unprofitable.
        1. +8
          29 December 2024 07: 28
          Quote: AlexSam
          military leaders with one brain from their caps are not given this by nature, and for businessmen from and under the military-industrial complex it is not economically profitable.

          As the criminal cases of "Ivanov and company" show, the corrupt convolutions of the brain of the former and the criminal convolutions of the latter work clearly, creatively and on a large scale.
          1. IVZ
            +1
            29 December 2024 10: 21
            the corrupt convolutions of the brain in the first and the criminal convolutions of the second work clearly and creatively
            I wouldn't say so. Just stupidly grab what you're sitting on, hoping for impunity, you don't need intelligence, only lack of principles, impudence and greed. To grab it in such a way as not to get caught, that's where you also need some intelligence, but you don't have it.
            1. +3
              29 December 2024 13: 29
              Quote: IVZ
              the corrupt convolutions of the brain in the first and the criminal convolutions of the second work clearly and creatively
              I wouldn't say so. Just stupidly grab what you're sitting on, hoping for impunity, you don't need intelligence, only lack of principles, impudence and greed. To grab it in such a way as not to get caught, that's where you also need some intelligence, but you don't have it.

              Just grabbing is not the case here. The federal treasury and other financial bodies would have automatically alerted us (they have programs for this). But here we have criminal schemes.
      3. +4
        29 December 2024 08: 46
        ‹...› make a conditional "yandex war" on android so that one fighter could mark a point on the map, put an icon - an enemy ammunition depot, request an artillery strike. After which the system will find an unoccupied artillery system, immediately give the fighters the elevation and rotation angles, and they will quickly shoot where they need to.

        Unfortunately, in artillery, not everything is so simple.
        In applications like "Yandex.Taxi" there is only one limitation on the possibility of engaging a car to perform a task - the driver's desire. He will fill up his car himself, the routes of possible movements are predetermined by the road network. For the system, only the distance to the pick-up point and the status "offline/fulfilling an order/free" matter.
        In artillery, the desire of the gun (platoon, battery) commander is not enough; the system must take into account a huge number of other restrictions, starting with the availability of ammunition and its sorting by batch and type, barrel wear, permissible angles of rotation and shelter ridges, the presence of a shell in the barrel, and ending with the unspoken plans of the senior commander for the use of a given gun to carry out a fire mission in the near future known only to him (and God forbid that at that moment the gun does not have shells / shells of the required type / shells with which the gun was sighted in at the required point two hours ago).
        So here we can talk a lot and beautifully from our sofas about how simple everything is, but when you actually get down to business, everything turns out to be much more complicated. And don't think that the army doesn't understand this without us and doesn't do anything.
        1. -4
          29 December 2024 11: 44
          the need for the system to take into account a huge number of other restrictions, starting with the availability of ammunition and its sorting by batch and type, barrel wear,

          Complete nonsense. The crew together with the gun must arrive at the required point and deploy and be ready to work and that's it, then the crew commander presses the icon on the tablet about readiness and waits for the firing coordinates. The crew of the gun itself keeps track of wear and tear and the presence of shells. The system does not need to keep track of limitations and wear of the barrels, the system sees the icon and provides the coordinates, that's it. That's what it is actually needed for calculating and providing targets to the gun, the rest of the records are kept by the artillery platoon.
        2. +2
          29 December 2024 13: 23
          So I wrote that in life everything is more complicated. But we have two thousand generals, trillions were allocated for re-equipping the army, but in fact we have towed artillery from the early Brezhnev era and that's it, problems can be solved not very well, or normally, or not at all
        3. +1
          29 December 2024 14: 00
          For some reason, people don't realize the need to filter information. You never know who might want to point their finger at something and have it fly there. This is a big problem in troop management.
          1. +1
            29 December 2024 17: 21
            Information filtering can also be automated, besides, right now the issuance of CU is performed by the same people, not AI, filtering works haphazardly "as the boss decided"
      4. +1
        29 December 2024 13: 01
        Quote from alexoff
        Someone should formulate a task for them - to make a conditional "Yandex war" on Android so that one fighter could mark a point on the map, put an icon - an enemy ammunition depot, request an artillery strike

        The battery commander has tasks set by his superiors. Sit and keep a low profile/fire there/support this or that. And how does this fit in with your Yandex war? Like hitting Yandex targets in your free time, optionally? And what if the tasks contradict each other? What if the battery commander wastes ammunition on Yandex targets, and there are none left for the main task. And how do you take the enemy into account?
        Let's say there's a drone hanging over the battery. It can't work, but Yandex says it should.
        And how to take into account higher priority tasks. Let's say an artillery duel or an order to hide, but Yandex suggests destroying a truck with firewood
        1. -1
          29 December 2024 13: 26
          The battery commander has tasks set by his superiors.
          In 99% of cases, these tasks are set by other fighters through the chain of command who have a mavic. Thanks to these important superiors, the speed of transmitting target coordinates can stretch out for hours. And the results can also include a truck with firewood, the target has left, an artillery duel has begun, the shells have run out, and so on.
          1. -2
            29 December 2024 13: 52
            Quote from alexoff
            Thanks to these important bosses, the speed of transmitting target coordinates can be extended to hours.

            But the probability of friendly fire decreases. By the way, how do you take this into account in Yandex War? A soldier with a Mavic saw a tank, put a check mark. A soldier with a tablet shot at the tank according to the check mark. Without asking the "important bosses". And then it turns out that it was our tank and at the next stage the soldiers go to court
            Quote from alexoff
            And the results may also show that there is a truck with firewood, the target has left, an artillery duel has begun, the shells have run out, and so on.

            The results may turn out to be anything. But the battery commander is given tasks and is provided with ammunition for these tasks. If the battery commander fails a combat mission because, according to Yandex-war, he spent ammunition on all sorts of nonsense, he will also be brought to trial.
            Dear Alexoff, your idea is not viable.
            1. +2
              29 December 2024 14: 03
              By the way, how should this be taken into account in the Yandex war?
              maybe the coordinates of our tanks should be entered there? You know, Yandex Taxi shows all taxi drivers, not just the one who is coming to me
              The fighter with Mavic saw the tank and checked it.
              a fighter with a mavic saw a tank and entered into a polemic with the commander, then with the commander of his commander, because the commander of the artillery division is not responsible for the tanks, whose tank is this for LBS? What is the result?
              But the battery commander is given tasks and is provided with ammunition for these tasks.
              What are these, I wonder? Where do they come from? Does the commander come up with them himself, based on nothing?
              Dear Alexoff, your idea is not viable.
              Are you by any chance one of the bosses? I'm 99% sure that it was precisely under such talk "what if?!" that our army was left with nothing. What if the enemy jams the electronic warfare of your toy drones? What if he intercepts control? That's it! The money is spent, there are no results, let's go surrender!
              1. -1
                29 December 2024 14: 24
                Quote from alexoff
                maybe the coordinates of our tanks should be entered there? You know, Yandex Taxi shows all taxi drivers

                And who will enter them there? The driver's smartphone? Specialists who enter them? Probably these should be some blocks connected to the ESU TZ. Which did not take off. That is, we are moving away from your Yandex war to a full-fledged military Internet and the ESU TZ.
                Quote from alexoff
                a fighter with a mavic saw a tank and entered into a polemic with the commander, then with the commander of his commander, because the commander of the artillery division is not responsible for the tanks, whose tank is this for LBS? What is the result?

                Are you suggesting to exclude the higher-ups? To hit everything that is visible from the Mavic? Congenial, Alexoff
                Quote from alexoff
                What are these, I wonder? Where do they come from? Does the commander come up with them himself, based on nothing?

                The tasks are defined by the General Staff, which are then sent down to the lower levels, clarified and specified
                Quote from alexoff
                are you by any chance one of the bosses? I'm 99% sure that it was precisely under such conversations "what if?!" that our army was left with nothing

                I am not from the higher-ups by any chance. What, the army was left with nothing?
                Quote from alexoff
                The money is spent, there are no results, let's go and surrender!

                Everything is bad/really bad. Surrender Alexoff. In captivity hot food, warm and dry
                1. -2
                  29 December 2024 15: 41
                  And who will drive them there?
                  and who enters the taxi coordinates? The taxi driver? The passenger? The Yandex manager?
                  That is, we are moving away from your Yandex war to a full-fledged military Internet and ESU TZ
                  and taxi drivers apparently also have ESU TZ and military internet. You might even write - what, is this necessary for communication or something?!
                  Are you suggesting that we eliminate the higher-ups?
                  Do you think that the boss sits, watches all the broadcasts, checks whether it is visible from the mavic, thinks for a long time, consults with his superiors, and then gives an order? How do you imagine the work of artillerymen?
                  The tasks are defined by the General Staff, which are then sent down to the lower levels, clarified and specified
                  It's very interesting - what tasks does the General Staff send down for the 122 mm howitzer?
                  So, the army was left with nothing?
                  Well, fortunately at least with towed howitzers. And with the bosses who know where each tank is, unlike the Mavic, and are always on the line
                  Everything is bad/really bad. Surrender Alexoff. In captivity hot food, warm and dry
                  but what about the option of prosecuting those who did badly and promoting those who are trying to do well? Sending away those who think that the boss knows better?
                  1. -1
                    29 December 2024 22: 50
                    Quote from alexoff
                    and who enters the taxi coordinates? The taxi driver? The passenger? The Yandex manager?

                    I suspect that the taxi driver's smartphone transmits the taxi coordinates to Yandex. Does the tank driver have a smartphone connected to the 4G network?
                    Quote from alexoff
                    You might even write - what is this, do you need a connection or something?!

                    You are the one proposing "Yandex war". So what's going on with LBS and 4G towers? Without them, your Yandex won't work. And without GPS/Glonass too
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Do you think that the boss sits, watches all the broadcasts, checks whether something is visible from the Mavic, thinks for a long time, consults with his superiors, and then gives an order?

                    Or not? In an unclear situation or on the edge of the area of ​​responsibility, he can at least contact his neighbors or superiors to clarify whose car it is. And in your opinion, he saw it - wham, God will sort it out?
                    Quote from alexoff
                    It's very interesting - what tasks does the General Staff send down for the 122 mm howitzer?

                    The fighting, dear Alexoff, is conducted according to a single plan. And not in such a way that the commander of each gun decides when and where to fire. Perhaps you have confused regular troops with the mujahideen
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Well, fortunately at least with towed howitzers. And with the bosses who know where each tank is, unlike the Mavic

                    You yourself wrote "nothing". Do you think that with Mavik you can always distinguish a Ukrainian T-72 or BMP-2 from a Russian one?
                    Quote from alexoff
                    but what about the option of bringing to justice those who did badly and promoting those who are trying to do well?

                    To try to do it well, you have to be a professional at least. Professionals, whether badly or well, tried to create the ESU TZ. And then, out of nowhere, Alexoff appears all in white and suggests, let's start a Yandex war
                    1. +1
                      29 December 2024 23: 58
                      Does the tank driver have a smartphone connected to the 4G network?
                      why 4G, why not write satellite internet from Musk right away, shrug your shoulders and say - well, that's it, we're leaving, other types of communication are not taken into account and no one can work in them
                      So what's going on with the 4G towers on the LBS?
                      I heard about them and they work
                      Without them, your Yandex won't work. And without GPS/Glonass too.
                      What if we extend the connection? We have such a lbs that it would be possible to lay fiber optics a hundred times and cover everything with Wi-Fi
                      In an unclear situation or at the edge of his area of ​​responsibility, he can at least contact his neighbors or superiors to clarify whose car it is.
                      Well, that is, now we are starting to look for extreme cases, what if the tank is going to surrender, but the boss will first check the operator with the mavic together with his boss, they will think, and when they come up with something, the tank will already be gone. And if it is a day off, then nothing will be done at all, because the degenerate is not there. And the tank has no connection, but it is necessary. And it is impossible to enter this into Yandex war in advance, because the bosses do not have any access, because their phone is a push-button landline
                      The fighting, dear Alexoff, is being carried out according to a single plan.
                      What is this? The plan of the respected degenerals? Sorry, but over the last couple of years I have seen zero military operations.
                      And it’s not like the commander of each gun decides when and where to fire.
                      and the General Staff decides, everything is subject to Gerasimov's approval. Is that friend's tank on the border of the formations really ours?
                      Do you think that with Mavik you can always distinguish a Ukrainian T-72 or BMP-2 from a Russian one?
                      Well then, in your opinion, Comrade Degener is going crazy, our T-72 should be driving there at this very moment without communication, and they say BMP-2, well then that means they're done for!
                      To try to do something well, you must at least be a professional.
                      We see here that our professional leaders of the army and the military-industrial complex can do nothing but brazenly steal under the protection of administrative resources. And the enemy nettles or our drones are not made by professional budget spenders, but by those who care. Napoleon recruited marshals from the street who would beat counts to a pulp.
                      And then out of nowhere, Alexoff appears, all dressed in white, and suggests, let's start a Yandex war
                      and the professional in justifying his superiors had an attack of pain, because if you approach a complex problem in the most primitive way, you can get confused and, in general, the General Staff can’t do anything - that means it’s complicated!
        2. -1
          29 December 2024 13: 43
          What you list as difficulties is not a difficulty. For coordination, you can even start a chat on tablets to exchange opinions, if there is a desire to solve the problems. Setting priorities is an even more easily solved issue.
          1. -3
            29 December 2024 14: 53
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            For coordination, you can even set up a chat on tablets to exchange opinions,

            In whatsapp))). And what, is there 4G on the LBS? Or is the phone allowed to be used except in airplane mode?
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Setting priorities is an even easier question to solve.

            And who should do this? The battery commander or his superiors? And if the priorities do not coincide?
            1. -1
              29 December 2024 14: 59
              If you transmit coordinates, then you have something to transmit text messages with.
              And you won’t believe it, there is no problem with priorities, in the army these issues have long been resolved; there is both a senior commander and the concept of assigned firepower.
              1. -1
                29 December 2024 15: 07
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                And you won’t believe it, there is no problem with priorities, in the army these issues have long been resolved; there is both a senior commander and the concept of assigned firepower.

                I believe you. Then what does "Yandex war" have to do with it? Well, if all these issues have already been resolved. Coordinates are transmitted, strikes are carried out
                1. 0
                  29 December 2024 15: 12
                  "Yandex-war" is an imaginary war. If a unit of stormtroopers or sabotage and reconnaissance groups is provided with firepower, then when making a decision to open fire, they do without a senior commander.
                  But if the target is discovered unscheduled, outside of the planned operation, then the decision is made by the senior commander, or, in his absence, the deputy. If there is neither a commander nor a deputy, then this is called loss of control.
                  It’s simple, if there is communication (communication channels) it can be resolved quickly.
                  1. -1
                    29 December 2024 22: 56
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    "Yandex war" is a war you imagine.

                    Apparently you have confused me with Alexoff. Yandex war is his idea
    2. +6
      29 December 2024 06: 57
      You probably haven't heard about the completely domestic Baikal processor))) everything there except the name is from Taiwan, it's very convenient))
    3. 0
      29 December 2024 12: 02
      During World War II, the German Enigma was known from the very beginning of the war.
      It was a very advanced machine. But neither the British nor the Americans created an analogue by the end of the war. Although they had captured copies. Do you think they simply couldn't?
    4. +4
      29 December 2024 13: 49
      Conscripts from scientific companies are screwing the territory, location, sarogs and uniform. We need to meet another general. He needs to join science.
      I can't even imagine how a soldier would write code. Even if there is a smart boss who organizes everything. But for every smart commander there are 10 ordinary ones, for whom a soldier cannot exist without a broom, mop or shovel.
      1. +1
        29 December 2024 15: 21
        For some reason, the scientific companies are located in Sochi. When they were created, I asked a question. Why not in Novosibirsk, since there is a world-class Akademgorodok there. No way. Why is there still no answer?
        1. 0
          29 December 2024 20: 19
          It is much more pleasant to go on an inspection trip to Sochi than to Novosibirsk.
          I just know about inspections from those who served there.
    5. +1
      29 December 2024 19: 41
      Excuse me, but what do our highly paid programmers who have a mobilization exemption do?


      The programmers are bastards, you need to take away their reservation and everything will appear at once). Programmers do exactly the tasks that are handed down to them from above.

      ? And what do conscripts from scientific companies do? Wear out their pants, sitting out this miserable year of service?


      That's right, the idea of ​​scientific companies as a whole may not be bad, but the implementation is very questionable, two of my colleagues served in these scientific companies, all their scientific work consisted of "researching" the security of laptops and writing various small reports.
      1. +2
        29 December 2024 20: 02
        Quote: Oldrover
        The programmers are bastards, you need to take away their reservation and everything will appear at once). Programmers do exactly the tasks that are handed down to them from above.

        Did I write somewhere that programmers are idiots? It's obvious that they are people under bondage, on contract, performing tasks assigned to them. But someone assigns them these tasks. And this someone has nothing to do with the state. The state doesn't matter to them at all, it's just a pain in the ass (taxes, etc.). But shouldn't it be like this in the conditions of the SVO? Or is this a normal state of affairs? Why, after three years, have we not created an analogue of the automated control system for artillery fire? The Ukrainian Armed Forces have clearly demonstrated its high efficiency for two years. Or did they have a million casualties, while we have five wounded?
        1. +1
          29 December 2024 20: 10
          Why, three years later, have we not created an analogue of the automated control system for artillery fire? The Ukrainian Armed Forces have been clearly demonstrating its high efficiency for two years. Or did they have a million casualties, while we have five wounded?


          Well, that's the kind of MoD it is, maybe there are enemies there (they were), maybe there's just rigidity and terrible bureaucracy. On the one hand, money is allocated for aviation (the same Su-57), but for some reason they can't introduce "drone drivers" into the staffing table.

          Or did they have a million casualties, while we had five wounded?


          In my opinion, we will find out about the real losses of both sides after 5-10 years of the end of the Second World War, and I think they will be sensitive for both sides.
        2. 0
          29 December 2024 21: 24
          By the time the desires of the troops in the field reach the generals (whose intellect is focused mainly on theft and promotion), by all this will pass through “military science” (those who are supposed to form the so-called “right people” in the management of the specialized institute to the programmers), years will pass.
  6. +3
    29 December 2024 06: 15
    Not as a criticism of our military and our military machine as a whole. We have what we have. In terms of the time of conducting the SVO, we are approaching WWII. Why? It would seem that we have everything for a quick victory, a blitzkrieg in German style. Have we really forgotten all the achievements of our distant and close ancestors?
    Why was Stalin not afraid to change the Chief of the General Staff often? The main brain of the army. Because the result was important. And not friendship and revolutionary past.
    There is such a concept as organizational and technical measures. In this case (SVO) to complete in a short time. What is needed for this? Let's say 300-600 pieces of "Oreshnik", 2000 "Smerch", different Calibers, Iskanders of 2000, aviation.
    Simultaneous and massive use of this and Ukraine in a coma. We save the lives of our guys fighters and on the highway to the border with the West.
    The fight against rebellion is not about fear of lifelong punishment, but about a quick victory at the front. soldier
    1. +3
      29 December 2024 08: 01
      What are you talking about?! The Supreme claims - there are "brothers" there. And you call them "Oreshnik".
      1. +3
        29 December 2024 08: 05
        The army, police, and special services have no "brothers" but enemies, criminals, spies, and potential traitors. Everything else is their failure.
        1. +2
          29 December 2024 08: 28
          That is, if you are free, then it is not your merit, but someone’s failure?
    2. 0
      29 December 2024 13: 22
      Why was Stalin not afraid to frequently change the Chief of the General Staff?


      Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, Vasilevsky for the Great Patriotic War - is this common, considering that Shaposhnikov left due to illness and then died?
      1. +1
        29 December 2024 13: 33
        Is it annual on average often or not for such a post?
        1. 0
          30 December 2024 07: 00
          Shaposhnikov was Chief of the General Staff from 1941 to 1942, Vasilevsky from 1942 to 1935. Is this common???
          1. 0
            30 December 2024 12: 07
            Typo - from 1942 to 1945
    3. 0
      29 December 2024 19: 46
      There is such a concept as organizational and technical measures. In this case (SVO) to complete in a short time. What is needed for this? Let's say 300-600 pieces of "Oreshnik", 2000 "Smerch", different Calibers, Iskanders of 2000, aviation.
      Simultaneous and massive use of this and Ukraine in a coma. We save the lives of our guys fighters and on the highway to the border with the West.

      And then the fact that Ukraine is in ruins, sanctions have not been lifted, demography is in the minus, the economy is in the minus, can't you see that the question here is not about military victory first and foremost, the question is what to do next. It is not for nothing that signals are increasingly heard from the Kremlin about sentences that include lifting sanctions, and this is a very difficult question, because these sanctions are not lifted by military means.
      1. -2
        29 December 2024 20: 01
        And what did they do after the liberation of Ukraine in WWII? And now it will be the same. The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!
        1. -1
          29 December 2024 20: 06
          Back then it was a different state with a different ideology and governance structure, and in my opinion it is strange to put an equal sign between the Great Patriotic War and the Soviet Military District.
  7. +1
    29 December 2024 06: 33
    we can provide her with support in 1:20 (1 minute – projectile flight, 20 sec. – aiming) – 2.00 (1 minute – projectile flight, 1 minute – bringing the cannon weapon to combat with aiming)
    Roughly the same thing happened during the Pacific Ocean battles. US battleships were used to provide fire support for landings because their reaction speed was higher than that of aircraft.
  8. +2
    29 December 2024 07: 27
    Quote from alexoff
    Unfortunately, we have to wait for a Russian equivalent.

    Apparently, "Planshet-A" and similar systems, since being accepted into service in 2019, continue to remain near-mythical means like the "Uran" or "Marker" robots, the "Altair" or "Corsair" drones, the "Derivatsiya" or "Zadira" air defense systems, and much more.


    There is no need to talk about "Armata", just like about "Boomerang", "Kurganets"...))
    1. -1
      29 December 2024 12: 18
      Boomerang and Kurganets could become the best APC/IFV of the SVO.
      The armor is good
      The armament is sufficient.
      In theory, reliable
      what else do you need?
      1. -1
        31 December 2024 14: 14
        It was also necessary to cut the sturgeon to the oligarchs so that there would be enough for normal rearmament of the army. But you understand that this is impossible, because the power is in their hands.
    2. +3
      29 December 2024 13: 29
      I think if you start writing down only the names of everything that Shoigu took to parades, you will get an article on VO.
  9. +4
    29 December 2024 07: 29
    Here not so long ago in the comments, one person from there wrote that towed guns are very durable and are best suited for counter-battery combat. And here we can theorize about the death of such guns and howitzers.
    Only the SPG is not only much more expensive, but there are also things that can break. A breakdown immediately deprives the installation. And the advantages and disadvantages of towed artillery are separated.
  10. BAI
    0
    29 December 2024 08: 35
    Well, not very long ago, the death of towed artillery was predicted at VO.
    And this author has not yet considered the possibility of the emergence of disposable guns.
    Shoot and throw it away. And then let the drones and counter-battery men do whatever they want with it.
    1. +3
      29 December 2024 13: 49
      Quote: BAI
      And this author has not yet considered the possibility of the emergence of disposable guns.
      Shot and threw away.

      A disposable gun is what a FPV drone is. One projectile with a cheap motor.
      1. +2
        29 December 2024 18: 10
        Quote: Saxahorse
        Quote: BAI
        And this author has not yet considered the possibility of the emergence of disposable guns.
        Shot and threw away.

        A disposable gun is what a FPV drone is. One projectile with a cheap motor.

        And the RPG can be considered as a disposable gun, and the ATGM (Anti-tank missile system).
  11. +2
    29 December 2024 08: 39
    Can we have a similar article on the use of our good old radio communication?
    1. +1
      30 December 2024 12: 09
      There is a connection, but it doesn't work.
      1. -1
        31 December 2024 14: 15
        Quote: avia12005
        There is a connection, but it doesn't work.

        That is, no, sort of. Clear, understandable.
  12. 0
    29 December 2024 08: 47
    I think towed artillery was buried two years ago.
  13. 0
    29 December 2024 08: 59
    Interesting, yes.
    Stands out for its specificity. Among the hurray-promises-noodles, like a grain of truth. There are few of them.
  14. +1
    29 December 2024 09: 25
    Pinchuk briefly explained the means of defeating the enemy. The most "harmless" turned out to be the MLRS "Grad". The shells are audible, which allows you to take cover in time, and the power of the ammunition is enough to destroy the gun only with a direct hit

    How can you hear a supersonic projectile?
    About camouflage - when working with a muzzle brake, all the dust rises into the air. And this is visible from a couple of kilometers away.
    The notorious Madyar has a bunch of clips about the D-30 barrel being hit by a drone with a PG-7V grenade.
    The gun remains intact, but there is a hole through the barrel.
    So, such Arta is highly questionable. Otherwise, rarities of arta would not appear in the media space.
  15. +2
    29 December 2024 10: 00
    Once on TV a red-haired guy (now he's fled to Israel) was showing a flexible tablet. In Ukraine, the program for artillery tablets was developed by volunteers, by the way. Here, volunteers are being pressured, although not very obviously, but quite cruelly and strongly. Especially in the area of ​​development and production of UAVs. Now "friends" headed by Chemezov are trying to saddle this area. Some shady little companies for "development and embezzlement of allocated funds." Some incomprehensible Armenians (apparently they are haunted by Pogosyan's "laurels") and other rabble.
    I have one question: why aren't towed guns made on a four-wheel trailer base? For example, like the German 88 mm anti-aircraft guns, which are quite effective as support weapons. Isn't it possible to put a D-30 on such a trailer? This would greatly increase mobility and increase ammunition capacity.
    1. +1
      29 December 2024 11: 51
      Our volunteers are being pressured, although not very obviously, but quite cruelly and strongly.


      The solution is simple - fear of giving away big money somewhere to the side from important people. The officials themselves want to manage, to manage the funds, so that part of it sticks to their hands, hence the centralization. Huge money, amounting to billions, went nowhere, and volunteers get a fig.
    2. 0
      29 December 2024 13: 19
      A hell of a lot of 88 mm was lost during tank attacks because the anti-aircraft gun weighed a lot and it was difficult for the crew to push it even a short distance to the tractor. And the Germans had a problem with armored tractors capable of working at the front line. The same will happen with the D-30.
      1. -1
        29 December 2024 14: 31
        No, I mean using the D-30 as it is used, for firing from the depth of the defense. Just change the speed and that's it. Four wheels, hook it up with any truck or tractor and off you go. Increases mobility. It is clear that no one uses towed guns for anti-tank purposes any more, without extreme need, for a long time.
        1. +1
          29 December 2024 14: 57
          A large recoil will tend to demolish the cart, tear it from its place. In addition, the dimensions will increase, camouflage will become more difficult, and survivability will decrease.
          1. -2
            29 December 2024 16: 04
            Well, the dimensions won't increase much, the height will remain the same, or almost the same. You can make coulters, external and internal folding ones. You can try, I think the game is worth the candle.
            1. 0
              1 January 2025 12: 42
              Search the Internet for the article "Towed howitzers of foreign armies and the main directions of their development". It describes a lot of different solutions for increasing mobility and deployment speed. Everything was invented before us.
        2. +1
          29 December 2024 16: 45
          Firing artillery from wheels, whether two or four, is a serious loss in accuracy and stability of aiming and rate of fire. Towed guns in the combat position fire from a support plate, with the wheels raised. Therefore, using a four-wheeled cart will still require jacking up, and there will be no gains in combat/travel mode conversion time.
        3. +3
          29 December 2024 18: 36
          Quote: fiberboard
          No, I mean using the D-30 as it is used, for firing from the depth of the defense. Just change the speed and that's it. Four wheels, hook it up with any truck or tractor and off you go. Increases mobility.
          A very controversial statement. Shooting from wheels - with its caliber, due to the rocking of the entire platform, the accuracy will be zero. If they are supplemented with additional stops, then assembling this design will be unacceptably long.
          When firing, the standard D-30 has three supports lying completely on the ground and secured with three steel stakes. The wheels hang in the air. If it is necessary to change the position, all three supports are folded along the barrel, to the end of which a towing device is attached, the wheels are lowered and the gun is ready for transportation. In the marching position, the gun is relatively compact. On guns of later production, the towing device is not removed (practice has shown that with this arrangement, the accuracy of the gun is higher).
          The first photo shows transportation, the second photo shows a retractable towing device, the third photo shows a non-retractable one.
  16. 0
    29 December 2024 10: 56
    Yes, now medium-caliber guns and self-propelled guns will be more relevant than ever. Firstly, the projectile does not fly for very long, maximum 35 seconds. Secondly, it will be quite difficult to calculate, since by this time they will have already left the position. Reconnaissance is probably 50% of the victory.
  17. +2
    29 December 2024 11: 15
    Have you seen the new wheeled self-propelled gun - Giocint on the Baz chassis?
    This is clearly more logical than the Msta self-propelled gun with a small chamber and a short barrel.
  18. 0
    29 December 2024 13: 12
    A cheap light howitzer is something like a 122 mm PLC-171 or 105 mm Hawkeye. The D-30 in its classic form takes no more than 10 minutes to convert from combat to marching position. Including because of the drive coulters.
    1. 0
      1 January 2025 12: 48
      In our case, cheap and light is 2B16 "Nona-K".
  19. +2
    29 December 2024 13: 46
    A howitzer crew may not leave its deployment location for months, only occasionally moving the guns to mislead the enemy.

    Only if it doesn't fire a single shot during these months. The artillery radar will give its position after the second shot, then you can immediately cover it with cluster munitions, thin out the crew. Well, and send a drone, to see the exact location. You can't hide a hot barrel, the point will be calculated to within a meter, you can finish it off with a missile or a heavy six-inch high-explosive shell. Well, FPV drones with repeaters now work at 10+ km. The survival of a towed gun today is a matter of luck and nothing more, the enemy just didn't get around to it.
    1. +3
      29 December 2024 14: 06
      Here, practitioners say that it is not so simple with conventional weapons. Both to detect a position and to destroy it.
      And this is not the first time I read something like this.
      1. +3
        29 December 2024 22: 19
        Quote: MCmaximus
        Practitioners say that it’s not that simple with conventional tools.

        Not just if the necessary means are not at hand. There are not so many artillery radars, and they are also hunted. The situation in different areas is very different in terms of saturation with artillery reconnaissance means. But in general, a towed gun cannot work intensively. What is the point of such support then? To hide it for a rainy day?
        1. +1
          30 December 2024 07: 01
          As this war shows, everything is useful in war. Everything at all. It is good to have a laser blaster, communications, electronic warfare and air defense for everyone. But, knowing what an army is and imagining war, I dare to assume that war is a constant shortage of all resources. From stew and water to radar and air defense.
          And nothing else is foreseen in the future. Whatever they come up with, there won't be enough for everyone. And if not the Msta, then the D-30 will do. And life will teach us to use it too.
        2. 0
          30 December 2024 13: 11
          It can work intensively, of course. For example, if the enemy is surrounded, when its counter-battery capabilities are greatly reduced. Or the crew can hide and wait for a tractor to change position.
          1. 0
            30 December 2024 13: 45
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            For example, in the event that the enemy finds himself in an operational encirclement, when his counter-battery capabilities are greatly reduced.

            Well, yes, in some exceptional cases it can be used. But guns are the main instrument of war, they must be constantly in operation.

            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Or the crew can hide and wait for the tractor to change position.

            You can hide or run away, but the gun itself will be taken out. The barrel or recoil pads will be damaged by shrapnel and that's it, in metal.
  20. +1
    29 December 2024 20: 28
    What nonsense, spotters from copters work normally according to the cardinal directions, through the same trick, if these are not random targets, but planned ones. It turns out to be quite accurate shooting if the artillerymen are competent. And so the matrix 300 and correct up to 8 km everything is visible.
  21. 0
    29 December 2024 20: 30
    Finally, an adequate article on VO, here you regret that you can’t give a + to the article itself.
  22. 0
    29 December 2024 22: 33
    We have learned to deal with mines flying along a hovering trajectory, but not with shells

    Some may have learned, like the Jews, but it's doubtful about our army or Bandera's. We pound with mines and so do they. True, a mortar firing can be easily detected by counter-battery radars, if they are available. But mortars are easily camouflaged and hidden. After all, they are not towed guns or self-propelled guns.
  23. 0
    29 December 2024 22: 38
    Why has no one yet been concerned about the mobility and rate of fire of “traditional” weapons?
    First, there were self-propelled guns. Additional wheels, a motor, and a steering post were attached to the frame. You drove into position, lowered the ploughshares to the ground, and fired. Need to change position? In a minute or even faster, you could move it to the marching position and move.
    It would be possible to make mobile loading mechanisms with a reserve of 5-10 shells. It would drive up, dock, shoot off the ammunition, drive off to reload - and a replacement would drive up right away.
    Such a palliative, of course, does not replace self-propelled guns, but to some extent allows to compensate for their shortcomings.
  24. 0
    30 December 2024 09: 39
    And will the D-30 quad bike drag it away? Then it can also be camouflaged and used to change positions. Such equipment is very compact.
    1. 0
      7 January 2025 06: 26
      This 500 kilogram XNUMX was hauled by hand, only a powerful tractor could do that.
  25. 0
    30 December 2024 17: 20
    After the passage about towed artillery still being a very expensive toy, I skipped to the comments. Author, could you give me the price of the Gaibitsa ML20 and MSTA or something simpler but equally effective in a comparable caliber? And with camouflage as on the ground?
  26. -1
    31 December 2024 14: 26
    If we don't have enough self-propelled artillery like Msta and Malva, we'll tell you that towed artillery is still awesome. If we don't have enough T-90s, we'll tell you that T-55 can still take out your Abrams, Challengers and Leopards with one left track. The main thing is to talk a lot and confidently, then victory is probably just around the corner.
  27. 0
    7 January 2025 06: 25
    Motovilikha factories were closed by Chernomordin in the 90s, so howitzers are not produced. At all. And the barrel has its own resource. Hydraulics also have a resource. So in 2-3 years the SVO management will simply be forced to switch to guided missiles, because comrade Kim will not give many howitzers.