Under-barrel shotguns have reached the SVO

128
Under-barrel shotguns have reached the SVO
A photo of a Ukrainian special forces soldier that prompted the topic of underbarrel shotguns to be raised. So far, this is the only photo confirmation of our opponents using underbarrel shotguns


Not long ago, a photo of a Ukrainian special forces soldier appeared on the Internet, presumably taken in the SVO zone. The photo is notable for the fact that the Ukrainian is armed with a carbine with an American-made M26 underbarrel shotgun. What is this weapon and what could be interesting about underbarrel shotguns in the context of the current conflict?




Thanks to Hollywood, we've known what an underbarrel shotgun is since the late 1980s. A still from the 1987 film Predator, with Billy Saul, played by actor Sonny Landham, holding a rifle equipped with an underbarrel shotgun. True, in this case, the film's prop masters didn't use a real underbarrel system, but simply attached a full-size Mossberg 500 shotgun to the machine gun, with the butt removed. This shotgun weighs more than two kilograms, even without the butt and cartridges, so it's an open question how applicable this would be in reality. But this is Hollywood, and the magic of cinema is in full force there.

The under-barrel shotgun, designated the XM-26 LSS (Lightweight Shotgun System), entered military testing in 1999. The developer was C-More Competition. The requirements for this system were initially developed by the US Special Operations Command (US SOCOM).

In 2003, a pilot batch of 200 XM-26 shotguns was sent to Afghanistan for military testing, where they generally proved themselves to be positive. The system was adopted by the US Army under the name M26 MASS (Modular Accessory Shotgun System). In 2008, the US Army placed an order for 35 M000 MASS units. The order was fully completed by the manufacturer by 26.


The M26 MASS was originally designed to be used not only as an under-barrel auxiliary system, but also as an independent weapon system. The photo clearly shows the reloading handle in the folded position.

The first thing everyone probably thought about when they saw the photo of a Ukrainian special forces soldier with an underbarrel shotgun was that it was a great help in the fight against drones, first of all FPV (reconnaissance, even “civilian” ones fly too high, and heavy ones like “Baba Yaga” should not be shot down with shotguns).

But this shotgun was created, to put it mildly, in the "pre-drone" era, and even the theoretical possibility of fighting drones with such a shotgun was not considered at the time. Drones were simply completely different back then. In fact, the M26 is a development of the idea of ​​an under-barrel shotgun by Knight's Armament Company called the Masterkey. In fact, the main purpose of such a shotgun in this case is encrypted in the name of the product itself - the masterkey, that is, such shotguns were created primarily for breaching - the process of quickly opening doors, including using shotgun shells for smoothbore guns. Well, and already as secondary tasks there was use in close combat, primarily when clearing premises, and as an additional weapon capable of firing non-lethal ammunition. That is, in general, a range of tasks for a special forces unit, and more likely even a police unit than an army one. But this is not all.


Here, the M26 performs one of its primary missions: britching. A member of the U.S. Army's 119th Engineer Company performs britching training in Kingwood, West Virginia, June 2, 2023.

The main thing is probably the barrel length. On the M26 it is only 197 millimeters. For comparison, the legendary IZH-27, which, by the way, also fights in the SVO zone, has a barrel length of 660 millimeters. And this is still the most “short-barreled” version of this legendary shotgun. In fact, if we are talking about the fight against drones, such a system can probably only be considered as a “last chance” weapon.


Although the M26 was originally developed for the U.S. Special Operations Command, it has since become a fairly common sight in regular army units. Here is a U.S. Army soldier training with an M26. Note the huge fireball that shoots out of the barrel when fired, thanks to the short barrel. The targets are quite a distance away, considering that the shot is fired from a shotgun with an extremely short barrel. But the targets are also fired with bullets and buckshot, not shot.

In addition, the M26 has a longitudinally sliding bolt. Moreover, reloading is not done like on a "pump", by moving the fore-end, but with the help of a handle sticking out of the bolt. It does not look very convenient. Any hunter or shooter will say that with due skill and shooting from a "pump" you can shoot more than quickly, even at moving targets. But with such a manual reloading system, how quickly a fighter can shoot, and even at an airborne, moving target, is more than an open question.


A U.S. Army Reserve soldier during target practice with an M26 shotgun, 2020. The photo shows the process of reloading the weapon and the moment of extracting the spent cartridge. It is clearly visible that in order to reload the shotgun, you need to remove your hand from the magazine well, which is held by it, pull the bolt back by the handle, then close the bolt, sending a new cartridge from the magazine into the chamber, and only then return your hand to the magazine well, returning to a normal stable hold of the weapon. Whether it will be possible to fire quickly and accurately at fast-moving air targets with such a manual reloading system, and even at minimal distances, is more than an open question.

Naturally, the answer would be self-loading systems and systems with a longer barrel. But here the question of weight and dimensions arises. An unloaded M26 weighs the same as an unloaded M230 underbarrel grenade launcher - in fact, these are the characteristics that the American military was striving for, this was one of the conditions of the technical task when creating this system. Any self-loading system will be heavier. As, in fact, any millimeters of barrel length will add weight and disrupt the balance of the main weapon.


An example of an under-barrel shotgun with a fairly impressive barrel length is the SIX12, from the well-known Crye Precision. However, here the question arises, to what extent are the weight and dimensions of such an under-barrel shotgun adequate in relation to the tasks it solves?

Perhaps, such a weapon system, even with such a barrel length, could be more effective in combating drones if there is special ammunition. We are talking about shotgun cartridges, where the pellets are connected to each other with strong synthetic threads. There is information in open sources that such ammunition has already been used by our soldiers in the SVO zone and has proven to be highly effective. This idea is not new. Buckshot tied with a thread has been used by hunters for quite a long time, but there the point was to hold the buckshot with a thread, and due to this, the range of destruction was increased. Here the point is that the thread essentially acts as the main striking element. In the summer of 2024, news that such cartridges are ready to be mass-produced at the Izhevsk-based Tekhkrim JSC.


A special anti-drone munition from Tekhkrim CJSC, announced in the summer of 2024. Similar munitions are already being offered by several private manufacturers in the United States.

They are working on under-barrel shotguns in our country too. True, it is homemade, unofficial, and the initiative for such developments comes from below. Almost all the designs that have been exposed in the information field are single-shot, single-barrel homemade shotguns. In essence, a tube from which a 12-gauge cartridge is fired. The reliability of such a shotgun is low, it takes a long time to reload and, apparently, it can show at least some effectiveness if there are at least several such designs in a small unit. Large domestic manufacturers have not yet shown interest in the topic of under-barrel shotguns.


There was such a thing. This is the RTS-SBS-12 underbarrel shotgun from the American manufacturer Red Jacket Firearms. In essence, this is a Saiga-12 imported to the USA from Russia, from which all unnecessary features were removed. This system was created exclusively for police special forces, again with an eye, first of all, on the breech (a muzzle device with developed spikes, just right for literally biting into wooden doors), and it did not enjoy any particular popularity in the USA.

The underbarrel shotgun itself is a rather specific thing. It was created for a very narrow range of tasks and, accordingly, did not receive wide distribution. Be that as it may, it could become a help on the battlefield for solving some tasks, but not by itself, but only in combination with other means.


An example of the creativity of our fighters in the SVO zone. A homemade, single-shot, under-barrel shotgun mounted on an AK-12. The effectiveness of such crafts, unfortunately, is low, and they did not appear out of a good life.
128 comments
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  1. +3
    31 December 2024 05: 10
    My opinion: we don't need underbarrel grenade launchers (the design is too bulky), but rather maximally simplified carbines (even "sawed-off" ones), with a large number of plastic parts. The goal is cheapness and light weight. Ammunition - with a small charge of gunpowder and aluminum shot. A drone doesn't need much.
    In general, weapons should be lightweight in all respects, just consumables that can be thrown away after use.
    1. +24
      31 December 2024 05: 22
      Ammunition -- with a small charge of gunpowder and aluminum shot. The drone doesn't need much.

      Even steel shot flies much worse than lead, and aluminum shot won't fly further than 5 meters.
      1. -8
        31 December 2024 05: 29
        Konnick, pyrotechnics like Roman candles shoot without problems at 50 meters and further, and there are not even pellets, but balls of gunpowder. Aluminum pellets are guaranteed to hit a drone from a hundred meters, and more is not needed, shooting is low-aiming, in a sector. The number of pellets is important, that's why I suggested aluminum. Titanium is also possible, but it is more expensive.
        1. +15
          31 December 2024 09: 27
          Your arguments reveal you as a person who has never fired a shotgun, or even held one in his hands. The effective range of a shot charge (this is when a sufficient amount of shot hits the target to kill) is 30, at most 50 meters, if the so-called "coordinated shot" is used. Buckshot flies accurately at 70 meters. Steel shot is sometimes used in hunting cartridges (it is cheaper), where there is no need to shoot at long distances. And at distances close to 100 meters, no shot will hit anything at all because of the dispersion, large buckshot can be, but that is if you are lucky to hit.
          1. 0
            31 December 2024 16: 01
            Depends very much on the target. The kamikaze drone is closest to a falcon. Not a goose or a boar. Fast, maneuverable, dives, can also hover. Feathers are not very dense, skin, bones are fragile. You need to select a power supply for it. Here your experience as a hunter is indispensable.
            1. +1
              31 December 2024 19: 04
              Homemade creativity is not a good thing, but if there is a need, and the efficiency relative to a standard cartridge in destroying a target has been demonstrated, why not put it into industrial production (we search and look on the Internet "Demonstration of conversion of 5,45 mm cartridge for shot")?
              The fighter has two magazines, one of them against UAVs, it takes a second to reload, or load one magazine like a target designator.
              There will probably be a greater chance of shooting down a UAV with shot than using a standard cartridge.
              1. 0
                1 January 2025 12: 02
                It's like a Ukrainian boy inventing a tank impenetrable to shells. I don't believe that if you replace a bullet with a piece of cambric with balls sealed in it, then the machine gun will have a normal supply of cartridges. Either by machine or by pulling the bolt. Shotgun cartridges exist only for revolvers, there is no automation and the case is a cylinder.
                A shot is a ball, balls generally don't fly well.
                1. 0
                  2 January 2025 02: 12
                  It is necessary to produce shells for the AGS, filled with many striking elements and exploding with a delay. Just load the belt every other one with different delays, for example, at 25, 50, 100, 150 meters. Practical shooting will allow choosing the optimal delays. The AGS has a significantly greater firing range than a hunting rifle...
                  1. 0
                    2 January 2025 21: 45
                    As far as I understand, if the explosion delay occurs due to the combustion of the pyrotechnic composition, then it is not particularly accurate in any case. And now such fuses are already made on electronics. And the area of ​​destruction by fragments of a grenade will be much less than 50 meters.
                    The bourgeois use the AGS against drones with a more powerful shot and a "sensor" fuse. I don't understand what is meant by "sensor", it seems not programmable.
                2. 0
                  2 January 2025 20: 12
                  Quote: Vlad2012
                  I do not believe

                  Quote: Serg Koma
                  Not from a good life, self-made creativity
                3. +1
                  2 January 2025 20: 45
                  Shotgun shells only exist for revolvers.
                  There is also .366TKM No. 10.
                  But shot number 10... it's against butterflies, I guess...
              2. 0
                1 January 2025 19: 01
                If the ASh-12 was more common, its shot cartridges would be much more effective. The 12,7 mm caliber allows you to load a lot more shot into it.
                1. 0
                  2 January 2025 20: 50
                  If the ASh-12 were more common here, the shotgun cartridges for it would be much more effective.
                  Rather, some segmented one, in plastic. So that it doesn't spin along the rifling, or the pellets will scatter for a kilometer. And you can stuff a lot - yes... there is the RSh-12 - it has a butt and shot cartridges... but then it would be better to have something based on the MC-255 - a short, thick barrel and sport powder on large charges...
                  1. +1
                    2 January 2025 21: 39
                    RSh-12 is a funny thing, I didn’t know such a thing existed.
                    MC-255 only as a shotgun. But the assault rifle ASH-12 is more versatile, only changing the ammunition is required. While a fighter with a shotgun also needs an additional small-sized submachine gun in most cases.
                2. 0
                  9 January 2025 09: 28
                  Specifically, it is more difficult to hit a drone with a bullet from a machine gun.
        2. +1
          31 December 2024 13: 20
          Quote: MBRBS
          Titanium is also possible, but it is more expensive.

          Bismuth is also possible.
          Used in FN 303 ammunition
          1. 0
            2 January 2025 21: 41
            Oh, come on. The required material has long been known, it is used in cartridges for clay pigeon shooting. Bismuth will be noticeably more expensive.
            1. 0
              3 January 2025 08: 16
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              Bismuth will be noticeably more expensive.

              The Su-57 is much more expensive than the Su-27.
              Is price always the deciding factor in the defense industry?
        3. +4
          31 December 2024 13: 27
          At a hundred meters they shoot with tungsten. Yes, there are such rich guys. Because due to specific gravity it allows to keep energy longer and fly straight and evenly. The number of pellets is not important, because your aluminum will disperse over three hectares.
        4. -2
          3 January 2025 12: 58
          At 100 meters the drone is neither visible nor audible,
      2. +5
        31 December 2024 06: 22
        In fact, there were videos of fighters fighting back from two meters away by throwing a machine gun or hitting with a stick. (Which is sad). But five meters is normal. Just keep in mind that there will be at least two of these drones around.
        1. 0
          31 December 2024 13: 02
          I heard that some front-line Kulibins created a special 5,45 cartridge for drones, tested it successfully and offered it to GABTU through respectable people. They replied that it was of no interest.
          1. 0
            31 December 2024 19: 39
            ...was offered through respectable people to GABTU. They replied that it was of no interest.

            What else can GABTU answer? Shooting is not their area of ​​expertise.
    2. +15
      31 December 2024 06: 57
      With a small load and light shot - you won't even shoot down a crow, let alone a drone. Why doesn't anyone use Sporting cartridges for hunting, although the recoil is noticeably more comfortable? That's exactly why - a duck would probably fall over laughing, not to mention a goose. And you're still suggesting aluminum shot... Plus a short barrel. The real range of destruction will be a maximum of 10-15 meters...
      1. +6
        31 December 2024 07: 03
        Quote: paul3390
        the duck would probably fall over laughing
        Fell under a chair wink wink
      2. +7
        31 December 2024 08: 47
        The crow falls laughing from the shot. Then he gets up and says: "What was that?"
        Lead and only lead.
        1. +3
          31 December 2024 12: 22
          Yes, if only it fell wassat She calls her colleagues in the dangerous business, screaming hysterically - they fly in from all sides as if scalded, gather in a den and circle over the shooter, accurately shitting on his head from a safe distance. Guano on hair and clothes as the end result of shooting is some kind of disgrace.

          I have had some crows withstand a side shot from 20 meters from a .22 LR - sitting on a tree, they swayed and flew away, until I saw them fall. But this happens in the fall, the sound of a hit is like a kick on a deflated soccer ball. Pumped up, apparently, crows, muscular.
          1. 0
            31 December 2024 16: 10
            No, there are feathers that stop the bullet. Keratin, a substance like buffalo horn. In several layers, overlapping. However, the drone does not have this, fragile plastic.
      3. 0
        3 January 2025 04: 46
        Nobody shoots ducks with 7-7,5 shot - there will be a lot of wounded animals.
        But woodcock and pigeons are quite easy to shoot.
        Sporting is not the speed of the shot, but the weight of the projectile (and there is 18 g)
      4. 0
        5 January 2025 02: 37
        The actual range of destruction will be a maximum of 10-15 meters....

        Oh well: even a Chinese pneumatic toy pistol can pierce an aluminum beer can with a steel ball from 3 meters.
        Why did I suggest aluminum shot? Because it will fit twice as much, with the same mass of all shot. And the quantity is very important.
        1. +1
          5 January 2025 14: 24
          The amount of pellets is limited not by weight, but by the size of the cartridge, especially since self-loading carbines like Vepr are used.
    3. +1
      4 January 2025 19: 56
      Instead of underbarrel grenade launchers, which are quite heavy, it is easier to give the fighter a rocket launcher with a corresponding shotgun cartridge.
  2. -1
    31 December 2024 05: 19
    P.S. I think that eventually combat VLP drones will be banned by some international convention as a weapon of terror. Serious world powers do not benefit from such a situation, when low-budget military formations compete with expensive armies.
    1. +10
      31 December 2024 06: 17
      As usual, by a special papal bull.
    2. +13
      31 December 2024 06: 53
      Quote: MBRBS
      Serious world powers do not benefit from a situation where low-budget military formations compete with expensive armies.
      Low-budget military formations don't care what world powers think about them and their weapons. They will only develop and supplement this direction wink
    3. +6
      31 December 2024 09: 37
      Well, well, well... Cluster munitions, chemical weapons, anti-personnel mines are prohibited, but the Ukrainians and NATO countries use them.
      1. 0
        31 December 2024 16: 15
        Russia and the United States have not signed the conventions on cluster munitions and anti-personnel weapons. Ukraine has signed only the anti-personnel weapon.
        1. 0
          31 December 2024 21: 59
          . Ukraine signed only on anti-personnel

          Why are you embarrassed? Just write "and" with an "i".
          1. +1
            1 January 2025 21: 17
            What did I say that was so bad? I wrote it exactly as it is. With or without "ы", let people know.
      2. -2
        31 December 2024 19: 44
        ... chemical weapons, ... but the Khkhly and NATO countries use them.

        Are you confusing chemical warfare agents with irritants?
        1. +1
          31 December 2024 21: 57
          Are you confusing chemical warfare agents with irritants?

          Don't engage in demagogy, chemistry is chemistry, people die from it.
        2. +1
          1 January 2025 11: 37
          Quote from: ln_ln
          ... chemical weapons, ... but the Khkhly and NATO countries use them.

          Are you confusing chemical warfare agents with irritants?

          Unfortunately, there were cases when the Ukrainians used mustard gas and lewisite, although on a small scale.
          1. -1
            1 January 2025 15: 55
            Mustard gas and lewisite were also used, although on a small scale.

            I wonder where they got these antiquities.
            Was it really made anew? Then the small scale is understandable.
            1. 0
              4 January 2025 16: 34
              Quote from: ln_ln
              Mustard gas and lewisite were also used, although on a small scale.

              I wonder where they got these antiquities.
              Was it really made anew? Then the small scale is understandable.

              That's the thing, mustard gas and lewisite, like TNT, do not age. Mustard gas from WWI kills just like the newly produced one. Unfortunately. And it also remains in the area for weeks. It's still nasty.
    4. 0
      31 December 2024 15: 43
      But the particularly “smart” ones will not sign it and will keep it next to chemical weapons, cluster munitions and phosphorus shells.
  3. 0
    31 December 2024 06: 49
    I don't quite understand the tactics of using such weapons. It is absolutely clear that such weapons are used against small drones, which can be noticed only when they hang over a fighter's head. But they are not hanging for fun, they carry a combat charge on board. And if this drone is shot down, then the charge will fall on your head with all the consequences. Or somewhere nearby, on your comrade sitting next to you. Is this issue taken into account somehow?
    1. +4
      31 December 2024 12: 36
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      And if this drone is shot down, then the charge will fall on the head with all the consequences.

      Drop drones are drones with advanced and expensive optics, and FPV kamikaze drones hit the target differently, some by dropping, while others by direct damage with an approach at a relatively low speed. And shotguns are needed against them. And given that FPV drones are being converted to fiber optics, there is no longer an alternative in the form of electronic warfare guns.
      Happy New Year! hi
    2. +3
      31 December 2024 15: 54
      Full of shots. See how it all happens.
      It doesn't fall on anyone's head. On the contrary, everyone agrees that the drone should fall.
    3. +1
      31 December 2024 16: 20
      When hit, the drone loses stability, twists and flies far to the side.
  4. 0
    31 December 2024 07: 56
    I am not a hunter, so I will not discuss the anti-drone usefulness of underbarrel shotguns, but I will speak out about the option of penetrating doors and thin walls. I believe that the penetrating action of shotguns will be useful in equipping assault groups. Having reached the enemy's field positions, the assault trooper finds himself in a long trench, which is fortified with dugouts for rest, bunkers and other wood-earth fortifications. The entrances to these places can be closed with wooden doors or covered with something else, not too heavy. With a regular machine gun at the ready, the soldier would first have to try to open the door, but at that moment he risks receiving a burst of machine gun fire from cover. Throwing a grenade to open the door is also not an option: the explosion may not destroy the door. But the shotgun is just right here: a stormtrooper with a shotgun breaks down a door and flies into a fortification, spraying everyone inside with machine gun fire until they recover from the explosion and hail of splinters. And there's nothing to say about fighting in an urban area.
    1. +3
      31 December 2024 11: 32
      There is one aspect here - weight. You can't carry much, otherwise you'll lose mobility. And you'll get tired quickly. You'll think a hundred times what to hang on yourself. And extra hardware - it seems to me, is completely unnecessary. It's better to take some more ammo or grenades for the same weight.
      1. +1
        2 January 2025 14: 05
        Well, for those sitting in a trench, through which drones fly, such weight will not be a big problem. You can also put such a fighter on the armor instead of the APS. In a foot attack, there can be such air defense fighters, with only drobashes. In general, give it to some brigade and then listen to what they say, did it help or are tired
    2. 0
      31 December 2024 12: 36
      And who would carry a shotgun and ammunition for a stormtrooper, a pack animal? hi It's already heavy, and ammunition, even in small quantities, is a total disaster. And so a shooter with only a shotgun during an assault is naked and barefoot without a machine gun, a useless and defenseless target for anyone.
      1. +3
        31 December 2024 19: 49
        Extra 5 kg? 1 gun + 30 rounds. Better to die right away, of course. How the Americans carried a "trench broom", they probably had muscular blacks for that.
        1. +3
          31 December 2024 20: 15
          I hate racism and blacks love
        2. +1
          1 January 2025 11: 43
          Quote: Vlad2012
          Extra 5 kg? 1 gun + 30 rounds. Better to die right away, of course. How the Americans carried a "trench broom", they probably had muscular blacks for that.

          Vlad, don't compare the incomparable. Back then, there were no bulletproof vests, and a trench broom was quite enough as a fighter's main weapon in close combat. In addition, the vest itself weighs quite a lot. And now, because of the vests, you can't do without a machine gun. Although it is quite possible to create one for a shotgun and armor-piercing rounds.
          1. 0
            2 January 2025 21: 08
            Although it is quite possible to create one for a shotgun and armor-piercing rounds.
            Why? A bullet will take out the soul in a short time. However, there is "Zenith".
            1. 0
              4 January 2025 16: 48
              Quote: Simargl
              Although it is quite possible to create one for a shotgun and armor-piercing rounds.
              Why? A bullet will take out the soul in a short time. However, there is "Zenith".

              The thing is that stormtroopers have to shoot at close range, and the Zenit bullet is not in production.
    3. +1
      31 December 2024 15: 55
      They tie a grenade to a closed door. Or two. Run in and water it))).
  5. +6
    31 December 2024 08: 38
    Note the huge fireball that shoots out of the barrel when fired.
    This is not a "fireball", it is a ring vortex formed during a shot. The powder burns out in it and therefore it is clearly visible. An example is the shot of the "Tulip"
    1. +1
      31 December 2024 19: 48
      It is where the gunpowder burns out.

      More likely not gunpowder, but carbon monoxide.
      1. +1
        31 December 2024 20: 02
        More likely not gunpowder, but carbon monoxide.
        It is quite possible that there is a lot of carbon monoxide there, although sparks sometimes fly if the barrel is short, and this is clearly gunpowder.
        1. +1
          1 January 2025 21: 33
          Sparks are most often pieces of cartridge case, bag, wad, binding thread, varnish, paint, burning cartridge case, etc. They are not impregnated with nitrate, so they burn only outside the barrel, in atmospheric oxygen. And they do not fly far, they quickly lose speed.
          1. +1
            1 January 2025 21: 49
            Sparks fly from PM, APS, AK-74 - that is, where there is neither a cartridge nor a wad. I do not deny that a wad, etc. will produce sparks in a smoothbore.
            1. +1
              1 January 2025 22: 25
              There is varnish between the bullet and the cartridge case, there is paint on the bullet nose, there are remains from the primer charge, etc. But of course the most likely are poorly impregnated powder grains in low-quality batches.
      2. 0
        1 January 2025 21: 29
        CO burns with a blue flame. Nitrocellulose - yellow. Let everyone decide for themselves. Looking at both photos of the muzzle flame.
  6. +2
    31 December 2024 08: 39
    I read the article and got cognitive dissonance. The title of the article completely contradicts its ending. Have underbarrel shotguns reached the SVO or are there only homemade Kulibin's? In the main photo, there is a fighter with an American assault rifle and an American underbarrel launcher. The topic of underbarrel shotguns is, of course, extremely relevant. In my opinion, it is possible to equip almost every fighter with such an additional weapon using 3D printing, the simplest single-shot plastic shotgun under the barrel of each machine gun in the squad can save many lives.
  7. BAI
    +2
    31 December 2024 08: 53
    A homemade, single-shot, under-barrel shotgun mounted on an AK-12. The effectiveness of such contraptions, unfortunately, is low, and they did not appear out of a good life.

    1. It's better than nothing.
    2. It is a shame for our weapons manufacturers that they have not created anything to combat drones.
    1. +3
      31 December 2024 13: 00
      Quote: BAI
      2. It is a shame for our weapons manufacturers that they have not created anything to combat drones.
      Gunsmiths created Vepr - a self-loading smoothbore PKM with a magazine for 8 (10) rounds. The only drawback is that it is heavy. There is nothing cooler in the smoothbore version against drones and it is not visible. It is produced serially. If it is needed for LBS, but it is not there, then the problem is most likely that it cannot pass PZ: the quality of civilian small arms is that ... And Vyatskiye Polyany is still okay, with Izhevsk Saiga it was even worse.
      1. +1
        31 December 2024 15: 47
        What could be so cool about this machine gun? A shotgun is a regular smooth tube, the longer it is, the further it shoots. The Vepr is not designed for shooting in flight, and its barrel is so short that if something flies to the target at 30 meters, it's a blessing. Extraordinary. drinks
        1. +4
          31 December 2024 15: 58
          Short and extremely awkward. But it's better than a pipe under the barrel. And much better than nothing.
          Let the men at war decide what is better. For some, a Vepr, for others, a hunting semiautomatic or a pump.
          The main thing is that all this is during the war.
        2. 0
          31 December 2024 18: 00
          What do you mean, the barrel is short? From 430 to 689 mm, what is that? Very little, probably?
          1. +1
            31 December 2024 18: 14
            There is an opinion that it is optimal to shoot shot at fast-moving targets with 700 mm barrels. The most dynamic sport is a circle, previously they used 680 mm barrels, now everyone shoots with 700.
            But this applies to guns with a decent anatomical stock for shooting on the fly; a machine gun with a buttstock for shooting while lying down does not apply to them.
            In fact, the Vepr and others like it are niche "home defense" weapons for self-defense of a home, property and oneself, loved one, from criminal attacks of destructive elements of marginal behavior, as well as dangerous animals.
        3. 0
          31 December 2024 20: 04
          Quote: hhurik
          and its barrel is so short
          570 and 680 mm are not enough for you? "Your Galya is very spoiled!"
          1. 0
            31 December 2024 20: 11
            Just imagine, and you also want a super magnum chamber, well, there is such a gadget. You don't care, judging by the post above, you can't tell the difference between a PKM and an RPK, but in life, this thing is sometimes useful. drinks
            1. +1
              31 December 2024 21: 53
              Quote: hhurik
              Judging by the post above, you can't tell the difference between a PKM and an RPK
              Where did you get that from? I can still tell the difference between an overgrown machine gun and a real general-purpose machine gun.
              1. -1
                31 December 2024 22: 15
                Well, apparently they started to forget, it happens before a holiday drinks

                This is it: "...Gunsmiths created the Vepr - a self-loading smoothbore PKM with a magazine for 8 (10) rounds. The only drawback is that it is heavy..." who wrote above?
              2. 0
                5 January 2025 14: 30
                Your opponent tried his best to prevent shotguns from appearing on the front lines, posting stupid pictures is his style.
                And shotguns turned out to be not even a temporary phenomenon, as I thought before the advent of high-speed combat modules and interceptor drones, but a permanent one.
                Shotguns have become especially relevant with the advent of relatively slow drones with optical cables.
  8. +1
    31 December 2024 09: 16
    You might want to consider the .22LR. A fast-firing, compact anti-drone machine gun in this caliber would have a number of advantages, one of which is the range, which is about twice that of a shotgun.
    1. 0
      31 December 2024 09: 46
      There are already some. In the USA. The comment text is too short.
    2. 0
      31 December 2024 12: 59
      The .22LR cartridge is prone to disintegration, the bullet can be removed from the case by hand without straining. Since it is made of a plastic lead alloy, the slightest change in the feed direction - and that's it, it flattens and gets stuck at the entrance to the chamber. In addition, ammunition is different, from high-speed stingers with a lubaloy to sabsonics under a silencer, all this is harmful to the stability of the automation. I remember sawing and sawing my self-loading TOZ-99, polishing and polishing - everything was sad, I spat and handed it over for destruction, its tip and the striker fell off.
      All these fantasies are funny, but pointless from a practical point of view.
      1. +1
        31 December 2024 16: 00
        But for some reason it works for the Americans but not for us. am
        1. 0
          31 December 2024 16: 21
          What do you mean - does it work? It's a weapons curiosity, loved by collectors, well, where can a civilian buy a machine gun with a license - nothing more. If I remember correctly, it was conceived for guarding prisons in the 60s - like, mowing down crowds of prisoners. It didn't take off, naturally.
    3. 0
      4 January 2025 23: 04
      The problem is in hitting a high-speed target at a distance of more than 100 meters. The lead at a speed of even 20 meters per second is like a duck's 10-15 bodies, that is, if the drone is 30 cm. Then the lead is 3-4 meters, it is difficult (very) for a person to conduct aimed fire at such a distance without optics, and with optics it is difficult to hold the target.
  9. 0
    31 December 2024 09: 52
    I would have done the same, even better than these, but it’s not allowed by law.
  10. +1
    31 December 2024 10: 40
    This is strictly IMHO, but personally I don't understand why no one wants to remember what has already been created? The German Luftfaust and our "kolos" - in modern conditions for destroying UAVs at distances of up to 1000 meters... An ideal weapon. Moreover, such "toys" with quick-change barrel blocks can be produced literally at the level of a "school club". At one time I built a hand-held rocket launcher with seven barrels, which fit in a tube from the drawings...
  11. +1
    31 December 2024 10: 48
    why not make it simpler, instead of such a device with a magazine, make an under-barrel shotgun with four barrels like a traumatic weapon like the Wasp, they even have a similar caliber of about 18.5 mm, that is, in terms of size and hand girth it will not differ from the under-barrel gun in any way, but it is simpler and faster, you can even provide for the possibility of a simultaneous shot from four barrels at once, the recoil of course will not be weak, but as a shot of last resort, it is quite possible to endure, I do not think that this device presented in the video holds more than 6 rounds in the magazine, that is, the difference in ammunition is not critical ...
  12. 0
    31 December 2024 11: 32
    In the 90s in Tula a model of the 9a91 assault rifle with a PBS and an under-barrel pump-action shotgun was created, I don’t remember the caliber, so we had such models but they were not distributed, maybe we should revive this topic?
  13. +3
    31 December 2024 11: 34
    I look at the photo of the "Ukrainian SSO fighter" and can't shake the feeling that something is wrong - the barrel in the middle part has disappeared somewhere - the left arm is noticeably longer than the right
    1. +1
      1 January 2025 20: 52
      Definitely photoshop. Shown "as it could be". "Underbarrel grenade launcher" inserted into the image rather awkwardly.
  14. +3
    31 December 2024 11: 35
    It seems to me that this technology needs to be developed in a different direction: we need to not create a separate type of weapon to combat drones, but create a special cartridge for standard weapons.
    A standard 5,45 caliber can be equipped with a separating ammunition, which after a shot would split into 5-3 parts after 4 meters, thereby increasing the area of ​​destruction.
    The creation of separate weapons for these purposes has a number of disadvantages:
    - the weight and volume of the load carried by a fighter is limited. Therefore, it is easier to take a couple of magazines with special cartridges than a separate weapon and cartridges
    - Shotguns are only effective against attack drones that fly up to a soldier at point-blank range. A shotgun won't help against bombing drones that throw VOGs from 100 meters away.
    1. +2
      31 December 2024 12: 40
      Quote: Reporter
      Therefore, it is easier to take a couple of magazines with special cartridges than a separate weapon and cartridges.

      Shotgun shells of automatic calibers are ineffective, even 7,62, not to mention 5,45 - small projectile mass, aggravated by the dispersion from rotation along the rifling of the barrel.
      Happy New Year! hi
      1. +2
        31 December 2024 20: 37
        Why is it not enough?
        The 5,45 bullet has a pointed shape and a mass of 3,4 g. If you make it the same diameter along its entire length, you can increase the bullet mass to 5 g.
        We divide it into three parts, this is almost 1,7 grams per pellet.
        It's equivalent to buckshot
        Such a fragment of a wood grouse will break through on the fly, not to mention an FPV drone
        The main thing is that the drone has no protection, and any hit to the camera, blades or battery will lead to a fall
        1. 0
          31 December 2024 23: 01
          Quote: Reporter
          We divide it into three parts, this is almost 1,7 grams per pellet.
          It's equivalent to buckshot

          Wow, as many as THREE shots...
          Even without mentioning the completely incomprehensible pattern of the spread and the problem with feeding the cartridge into the chamber, three pellets are definitely not enough to increase the probability of hitting. It would be better to hit with a standard short cartridge...
          1. +2
            1 January 2025 11: 54
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Quote: Reporter
            We divide it into three parts, this is almost 1,7 grams per pellet.
            It's equivalent to buckshot

            Wow, as many as THREE shots...
            Even without mentioning the completely incomprehensible pattern of the spread and the problem with feeding the cartridge into the chamber, three pellets are definitely not enough to increase the probability of hitting. It would be better to hit with a standard short cartridge...

            Well, judging by the fact that the guys at LBS themselves reload 5.45mm cartridges with buckshot or shot, then it works. It's just a pity that they didn't make a container for more pellets on a 3D printer. Although it's probably not an easy task. And efficiency... well, this is a machine gun with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute. It fires the entire magazine in 3 seconds. And if you count 4 pellets per cartridge, then 120 pellets in the air. Or 40 per second. Still higher than 10 bullets per second.
            1. -1
              1 January 2025 13: 12
              Quote: nedgen
              Well, judging by the fact that the guys at LBS themselves reload 5.45mm cartridges with buckshot

              I am following the situation, I have never seen such reports. But once again, even if you do not look at the scattering of pellets, how is the operation of the automatics ensured and, more importantly, the feeding of the cartridge into the chamber? So I consider this unreliable information.
              1. 0
                1 January 2025 13: 47
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Quote: nedgen
                Well, judging by the fact that the guys at LBS themselves reload 5.45mm cartridges with buckshot

                I am following the situation, I have never seen such reports. But once again, even if you do not look at the scattering of pellets, how is the operation of the automatics ensured and, more importantly, the feeding of the cartridge into the chamber? So I consider this unreliable information.

                I don't know if it's true or not, but I saw a video 4-5 days ago where they were reloading 5.45mm cartridges with shot at a LBS (I don't remember where exactly I saw it) (they showed how to do it correctly). Basically, they knocked out a bullet, then took, if I'm not mistaken, 4 pellets, wrapped them in paper and inserted them into the cartridge case. They said that it greatly increases the efficiency of shooting from machine guns at FPV, and also the paper holds the pellets together until they exit the barrel and ensures normal reloading. I don't know if it's true or not. But if it's true then... although I personally think that it would be better not to use paper, but to print a plastic container on a 3D printer that flies apart into 3 segments after a shot. Then you could insert more pellets due to the length of the container.
              2. 0
                1 January 2025 13: 56
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Quote: nedgen
                Well, judging by the fact that the guys at LBS themselves reload 5.45mm cartridges with buckshot

                I am following the situation, I have never seen such reports. But once again, even if you do not look at the scattering of pellets, how is the operation of the automatics ensured and, more importantly, the feeding of the cartridge into the chamber? So I consider this unreliable information.

                And here is the link: https://vk.com/wall-142061522_406430
                although this is not the same clip. This is a different one and here you insert 7 round 4,5mm bullets from a pneumatic gun.
                1. 0
                  1 January 2025 15: 36
                  Quote: nedgen
                  And here is the link: https://vk.com/wall-142061522_406430
                  although this is not the same clip. This is a different one and here you insert 7 round 4,5mm bullets from a pneumatic gun.

                  Well, damn it, okay, the characteristics of the scattering (dispersion) - screw them, even the hell with the operation of the automatics, although there should be one hit after another, but the bullet is a 4,5 lead round - it weighs half a gram!
                  The diameter of the shot will always be smaller than the diameter of the bullet, because the shot must somehow stay in the cartridge. At least so that the cartridge does not fall apart when being loaded.
                  1. 0
                    2 January 2025 08: 48
                    Sorry Vladimir, but there will hardly be any problems. If you look at the blank cartridge 5.45, it also has a rounded end like a reloaded cartridge. And the overall shape of the bullet is almost the same as a standard bullet. So I think it should work as it should.
                    1. 0
                      2 January 2025 16: 24
                      Quote: nedgen
                      If you look at a 5.45 blank cartridge, it also has a rounded end like a reloaded cartridge.

                      It is not the shape of the tip that decides here, but the rigidity. And a blank cartridge, especially designed for blank weapons, has this rigidity. An assembly of 7 bullets can no longer be called rigid, and what will happen to it under loads in the magazine and feed?
          2. +1
            1 January 2025 21: 02
            Three pellets of buckshot significantly increase the probability of hitting by three times.
        2. 0
          1 January 2025 20: 58
          If it hits the camera, it won't fall, but it won't be able to hit itself. The antenna, wires and board are also vulnerable, with a relatively large area. The Hexacopter (Baba Yaga) will continue to fly even after losing two propellers. But of course it will retreat.
          1. 0
            2 January 2025 06: 20
            Quote: stankow
            Three pellets of buckshot significantly increase the probability of hitting by three times.

            I practically don't know Terver, but it is absolutely clear that this "three times" is complete nonsense. But there is, besides theory, also practice.
            Even if we take the ideal case, three pellets, when diverging, will form a HOLE between themselves. And that means, with the right aim, there will be a miss by the size of this hole...
            And here they are in a row - that is, they will push each other, along the rifled barrel - that is, they will be scattered after exiting by centrifugal force, since the container will instantly be eaten by the rifling.
            That is, until they have separated, and with rifling this is very close, the use is no more than from a bullet, as soon as they have separated, then there is even less use.
            Read the forums of practitioners...
            https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/2/570533.html

            If it hits the camera, it won't fall, but it won't be able to hit itself. The antenna, wires and board are also vulnerable, with a relatively large area. The Hexacopter (Baba Yaga) will continue to fly even after losing two propellers. But of course it will retreat.
            Buckshot (three of them!) at drones flying at an altitude of over a hundred meters? But for 5,45 it's not even buckshot at all, it's pellets.
            1. +2
              2 January 2025 09: 07
              Quote: Vladimir_2U

              I practically don't know Terver, but it is absolutely clear that this "three times" is complete nonsense. But there is, besides theory, also practice.
              Even if we take the ideal case, three pellets, when diverging, will form a HOLE between themselves. And that means, with the right aim, there will be a miss by the size of this hole...
              And here they are in a row - that is, they will push each other, along the rifled barrel - that is, they will be scattered after exiting by centrifugal force, since the container will instantly be eaten by the rifling.
              That is, until they have separated, and with rifling this is very close, the use is no more than from a bullet, as soon as they have separated, then there is even less use.
              Read the forums of practitioners...
              https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/2/570533.html

              Vladimir, don't compare a container with pellets where they are loose with 4,5mm caliber bullets where together with the tube they are almost the diameter of a standard bullet. In your opinion, almost all guns of the 19th century (I mean muzzle-loading rifles shooting round bullets) did not hit anything when shooting. After all, in essence, the tube of a reloaded cartridge imparts rotation to ALL the balls, especially since the axis of rotation almost coincides with the axis of the bullet, and after leaving the barrel, the tube collapses and then the bullets fly in a cloud. Of course, you are unlikely to hit anything further than 50-80 meters (the bullet weight is too small, but the spread should not be large at a distance of 50-80 m. (and it is not necessary further). (And do not forget that AUTOMATIC fire is being conducted, and this means that with 3 shots in 1 sec. there will be 21 bullets in the target area. And this is already comparable to the 12th cartridge). All the same, ALL the bullets are spun in the barrel, and not like the 12th cartridge, where the container is spun and the pellets (the diameter of the pellets compared to the container is tiny) are scattered like something thrown on a top.
              1. 0
                2 January 2025 16: 01
                Quote: nedgen

                Vladimir, there is no need to compare a container with pellets where they are in bulk with 4,5mm caliber bullets where, together with the tube, they are almost the diameter of a standard bullet.
                Okay, let's say this comparison is not particularly correct, but still pellets, and 4,5 mm, let me remind you, is pellets, will not, even with a tube, spin normally in the barrel like a bullet.
                Quote: nedgen
                In your opinion, almost all the guns of the 19th century (I mean muzzle-loading rifles that fired round bullets) never hit anything when fired.
                No, don't attribute to me something I didn't mean. Round bullets immediately, with their entire body, entered the rifling. This is not the case with shot.

                Quote: nedgen
                After all, in essence, the tube of a reloaded cartridge imparts rotation to ALL the balls, especially since the axis of rotation almost coincides with the axis of the bullet, and after exiting the barrel, the tube collapses and then the bullets fly in a cloud.
                Here you have a mistake. Because the tube will be destroyed almost immediately after the shot, first because of the powder gases from behind, and then about the rifling, and the bullets will start to spin in the barrel, but not around the axis, but spirally! And a dividing container capable of resisting these factors will not solve anything here. Because stabilized bullets will fly practically without scattering...

                Quote: nedgen
                And we mustn't forget that AUTOMATIC fire is being conducted, and this means that with 3 shots in 1 second there will be 21 bullets in the target area. And this is already comparable to the 12th cartridge.
                Absolutely not. Firstly, automatic fire with such equipment is problematic in itself, due to the quality of the cartridge, and due to the very possible problems with the gas automatic system, and secondly, both the rate of fire and the recoil will not stand any comparison with the instantaneous! cloud of a 12-gauge. No!
                However, there is a similar solution, suitable and already tested in practice. Multi-bullet cartridges... However, this already requires an industrial level, and anyway, it is not comparable with shotguns.
                1. 0
                  4 January 2025 17: 51
                  I think we don't need to pour from empty to empty. Time will tell. laughing As for dispersion, even multi-bullet cartridges give dispersion even at 100 m and this is despite the fact that both bullets twist normally in the barrel. Still, I think that there may be some hitches, but if the guys on LBS do it, then it still works. As for comparison - of course, in 0.1 second, the 121 caliber delivers more pellets to the target area, and a burst of 3 shots or more delivers 21 or more bullets to the target area in 0.3 seconds, which in principle does not make a big difference. hi
                  1. 0
                    5 January 2025 09: 36
                    Quote: nedgen
                    I think we don't need to pour from empty to empty. Time will tell.

                    I agree.

                    Quote: nedgen
                    As for dispersion, even multi-bullet cartridges give dispersion even at 100 m, and this is despite the fact that both bullets twist normally in the barrel.
                    Yes, some dispersion was included. But two bullets is at the end of development, and initially up to five, and here the prospect is already visible.
                    Quote: nedgen
                    Still, I think there might be some snags, but if the guys on LBS do it, it means it works.
                    Maybe they will, maybe they won't (there will be many of them) But doing it and providing the results of the shooting are different things. And someone did it somewhere, doesn't mean that it was on LBS and definitely doesn't mean mass shooting.

                    Quote: nedgen
                    a burst of 3 shots or more delivers 21 or more bullets to the target area in 0.3 seconds, which in principle does not make much of a difference.
                    No. You don't take into account the recoil spread, and you don't take into account the wild spread from spitting out destabilized bullets unwound along the barrel. I won't mention the weight of pellets and problems with the automatics.
    2. -1
      31 December 2024 13: 09
      Anything that separates according to Murphy's laws will inevitably remain in some places in the barrel, which will swell or burst during the next shot and, if lucky, will not injure the shooter. hi
  15. 0
    31 December 2024 13: 18
    I have been offering an under-barrel shotgun ("multi-shot") for a year now, but there are other "options"! I also offer a GPR-20 under-barrel rocket grenade, if possible with a non-contact fuse ... Of what is available, we can list a self-loading Lancaster carbine in 9.6/10 mm caliber with a buckshot cartridge (somewhere around .5-6 8-mm buckshot). Fighters with the LPR use a 23-mm "mortar", which is installed on the barrel instead of a flame arrester ... As a result, the machine gun, while retaining the ability to shoot "standard" cartridges, can shoot shot charges and even 23-mm shells! But the modern trend in small arms is the development of defragmenting bullet cartridges in 5.45 mm and 7.62 mm calibers!
  16. 0
    31 December 2024 20: 37
    Meanwhile, three years ago:
    From a cannon to sparrows: will the micro-UAV return a shotgun to the battlefield
    https://topwar.ru/190960-iz-pushki-po-vorobjam-vernut-li-mikro-bpla-drobovik-na-pole-boja.html
  17. -1
    31 December 2024 20: 56
    Nothing better than missiles has been invented for flying misfortune. It all depends on the size of the target and the size of the missile. It doesn't necessarily have to be bulky with an RPG-sized launcher. Designers aren't even trying to move in that direction.
    1. -1
      1 January 2025 11: 58
      Quote: Mint Gingerbread
      Nothing better than missiles has been invented for flying misfortune. It all depends on the size of the target and the size of the missile. It doesn't necessarily have to be bulky with an RPG-sized launcher. Designers aren't even trying to move in that direction.

      That's the thing, it's expensive against FPV. Very expensive. The Americans recently tested a 7.62mm machine gun with AI guidance. They wrote that it took 1 to 3 shots to shoot down an FPV. That's much more effective with a very low price for ammunition!!! But our gunsmiths aren't interested in that. You won't make any money with such a system!!!
      1. 0
        1 January 2025 12: 51
        No more than the cost of the drone itself. I think people just can't wrap their heads around it until such a model appears.
      2. 0
        1 January 2025 21: 14
        There's not even AI. Just machine vision, pattern recognition, target coordinator. Optics and image processing. Inexpensive these days.
      3. 0
        2 January 2025 14: 40
        We had a VITIM homing system for moving targets. How does it work on the SVO?
  18. 0
    1 January 2025 12: 58
    "They are working on underbarrel shotguns in our country too. True, it is homemade, unofficial, and the initiative for such developments comes from below." Unfortunately, only the people's military-industrial complex works efficiently in our country.
    1. 0
      4 January 2025 23: 31
      Moreover, even if (the fact) an experimental sample is sent into production, with drawings and explanations, then (I didn't come up with anything) the tool order is 2 months, there is no free capacity, these are only 2 copies, a new process chart is needed for each element. The managers are doing well and sweetly, maybe by spring they will probably give birth to something.
  19. P
    0
    1 January 2025 18: 03
    I am somewhat disappointed with the quality of the resource's audience. The author of the first photo shoves neurosavagery at you as "the only photo-confirmation of our opponents using underbarrel shotguns" and no one notices it.
  20. +1
    1 January 2025 18: 59
    Fly tape will help. Instead of a bullet.
  21. 0
    1 January 2025 23: 25
    The left hand seems to pass through the weapon.
    After reading one of the critical comments (thanks to the author of the comment!) I started to apply a ruler to the photo. Maybe it's a ruler, but it looks like the trunk is slightly bent upwards.
    And no need for any shotguns. If you believe in God, who is with us, then everything will work out by itself.
  22. 0
    2 January 2025 14: 38
    I immediately remembered the OSP 30 SPSh flare guns, produced in different years. They are used to provide a light and noise effect to 4 caliber 26mm cartridges. The question is, are they testing them or can they release a reinforced modification to help our soldiers, so that they can not only hit with an underbarrel grenade launcher but also load pellets into the flare gun and hit a drone.
  23. 0
    2 January 2025 14: 59
    I would like to know the effectiveness of our developments from the USSR era that we saw in our warehouses in case of war - PSNR-5 (1RL133), PSNR-8M "Credo-M1" product 1L120M, RNC radar, means of sound Improvement of the motorized rifle division, (sound-thermal) (modernization) reconnaissance AZK-5 (7) AZK-7 M MSP, A MAZK AZTK "Penicillin" Means The R&D of radio engineering A "Sbor-1" reconnaissance ARTK 1 RL 258 "Sbor-1" ARTK "Sbor-1 M", Multifunctional reconnaissance radar for firing 8 positions of firing mortars 1 L 271 "Aistenok", 1L122 Garmon. Radar 1L111M SBR-5M "Fara-VR. and other modifications
  24. +1
    4 January 2025 06: 20
    Once again, the same wild principle is demonstrated: The survivability of soldiers is the business of the soldiers themselves.
  25. 0
    6 January 2025 09: 48
    What's wrong with a Saiga with body kits and a drum? The manufacturer can churn out millions of them in a year, the models have been polished over the years of sales on the civilian market, if only there was a government order. Add special cartridges and that's it.
  26. 0
    6 January 2025 16: 20
    The buckshot from "Techcrim" should be made of steel... less recoil.
  27. 0
    8 January 2025 08: 05
    I don’t understand what’s stopping the State Duma from passing a law allowing participants in the SVO to buy self-loading rifles and cartridges for the duration of the SVO and to carry out tasks in the SVO?

    We just need a law and that’s it, the problem will at least start to be solved.

    We just need a law and people will buy themselves a gun for each department or two and the required number of cartridges.

    The fact that it is now just a disaster, they give out guns from confiscated ones, but they are complete junk, often broken, and the problem of ammunition has not been solved. Where to get cartridges for these guns?

    I don’t even dream about providing each unit in the SVO with a gun and ammunition at the expense of the Ministry of Defense, at least give them the opportunity to buy it.
    1. 0
      9 January 2025 17: 08
      Are they any good at all? If you have gunpowder and primers and a quiet place, you can assemble the cartridges on your knee. Double-barreled guns are generally omnivorous. And so, a Lee Load All machine and off you go.