Dissolution of Zaporizhzhya Sich

164


If you believe the professional Ukrainians, of whom so many have proliferated in our land, then almost all the actions of the Russian state were directed exclusively to the detriment of the Ukrainians. Especially “svidomye” curses come up when it comes to Empress Catherine the Second. What did the great queen have done to these gentlemen? Maybe by adding the Black Sea region and the Crimea, stopping the devastating raids of the Tatars on the southern Russian cities? Or by the fact that it brought Poland away forever from among the great European powers, wresting Orthodox pans from the yoke of the Orthodox on the right bank of the Dnieper and in White Russia, and then completely abolished the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? No, they hate her for dissolving Zaporizhska Sich in 1775. After all, according to natsvidomykh, Sich was almost the main center of Ukrainians of that time. For this her and destroyed the damned Muscovites. What can be answered?


Catherine II, Empress of Russia

First of all, the Zaporozhye army cannot be called Ukrainian, since its principle was based on the principle of cosmopolitanism and Cossacks were representatives of almost all the peoples of Eastern Europe, up to the baptized Tatars.

Secondly, it is worth remembering the attitude of the Cossacks to the peasants, who constituted the overwhelming majority of the population of Little Russia. Cossacks despised the peasants and were not averse to plunder them. The farmers of the Cossacks loved, to put it mildly, not much. Maybe a little more than the Tatars, but not by much. Therefore, to say that the Sich was perceived by the peasants as something absolutely positive, it is impossible.

By the way, shedding crocodile tears over the ruins of the Sich, the Ukrainians for some reason forget to tell about the fate of the Zaporozhians themselves, who even after the abolition of the Sich under the name of the Loyal Cossack Troops continued to serve the Russian throne, for which they were granted possession of the Kuban River valley. The Cossacks, who remained loyal to the Russian Empire, created the present Kuban Cossacks! And now, the descendants of the allegedly destroyed Zaporozhian cossacks continue in Kuban to prosper happily and heartily laugh at the descendants of swine-breeders in pseudo-clothes, creating various Cossack troops in Ukraine and declaring each other hetmans and Cossack generals. Well, like Pan Yushchenko, don't remember the night, suddenly after Maidan became a hetman.


KE Makovsky. Zaporizhia Cossack

To understand why Sich was eliminated, you need to remember that the lands of the Zaporozhian Forces, in essence, were the border between the Slavic lands and the Wild Field. And the Sich itself was a frontier fortification, which prevented the breakthrough of the Tatar hordes to the north. But after the conclusion of Kuchuk-Kaynardzhsky world 1774, with the Turks, the need for Cossack defense of the border from the Tatar raids fell away: after all, the Crimean Khan took Russian citizenship. Accordingly, the very meaning of the existence of the Zaporozhian army disappeared. Moreover, it became simply dangerous, since without a threat from the Tatars, the army quickly morally decomposed, losing any combat value. Cossack officers wove intrigue, plundered the money allocated by the government, and the poor at every opportunity banally robbed the neighborhood. Yes, and on the very Sich was restless. The constant embezzlement of money expelled from St. Petersburg for the maintenance of troops led to the uprisings of the Sich poor. Things reached the point that the ataman Kalnyshevsky, the atagonist, had to flee the Sich twice and suppress the uprising with the help of regular Russian troops. So the government was soon to take measures to either disarm the Cossacks and take up productive labor, or resettle them to a new frontier, where their combat experience would be in demand. Especially since the first alarm bell for the authorities sounded in 1773, when many Cossacks joined the Pugachev uprising. There is no doubt that if Emelyan Pugachev, as planned, broke into the Dnieper, then many of the Sich would join his adventure, especially from among the poor.


Vasily Perov "The Court of Pugachev"

5 June 1775, the commander of the Russian forces in No-vorossii, Lieutenant-General Peter Tekelli, approached the Sich, which was located on Chertomlyk Island. The sudden appearance of regular regiments literally stunned the Cossacks, and they offered no resistance. Having taken key points around the Sich and installing artillery, Tekelli demanded a Cossack sergeant, and when she arrived, the general read the empress's manifesto about the destruction of the Sich and the abolition of the Zaporozhye army. Tekelli did not force events, giving the Cossacks a week to think about. How the Cossacks themselves reacted to such a turn of events can be judged by the fact that the Cossack petty officer spent the entire time allotted for thought for a week together with officers Tekelli. Of course, not all the Cossacks were pleased. Fifty Cossacks received permission to sail for fishing on the Ingul River, and taking advantage of this, the dissenters, led by regimental foreman Lyakh, departed into the possession of the Turkish sultan. Thus arose the Transdanian Sich.

What was waiting for the Cossacks who accepted the government ultimatum? Do not rush to mourn their fate, nothing terrible has happened. Of course, it was not without repressions, however, it was extremely mild - a part of the foreman guilty of plundering the treasury was sent into exile, but the remaining leader was equated with the Russian nobility and endowed with land. Moreover, the plots were quite big ones: from one and a half thousand to thirteen thousand acres (tithe is approximately equal to modern hectares). Simple Cossacks were invited to join the pussy and hussar regiments. And already in 1783, the Most High Prince Potemkin issued a “proclamation” of the following content: “I declare, through these from those who are in the Azov province, the Slavic and Elizabeth provinces, who, in the former Zaporozhian army, served, to invite from them hunters to serve in the Cossack rank under my leadership. "

That is, just eight years after the liquidation of the Sich, the Zaporozhye Cossacks were revived by the efforts of the Russian government. In 1787, the government provided Zaporozhians with a place in the Vasilkovo gorge near the Bugsky estuary for the establishment of a military kosh. At this time, the Cossacks received the name of the Loyal Cossacks (Zaporizhia) Army, and a year later the Army was renamed the "Loyal Black Sea Cossacks Army". The active participation of the Black Sea Cossacks in the next Russian-Turkish war again returned to them the favor of the Russian government, because the role of the Cossacks in defeating the Ottoman armies was enormous. It was the Cossacks who captured the Khadzhibey fortress by night storming, in the place of which Odessa stands now. They promptly captured the island Berezan. Therefore, when the Black Sea people turned to Ekaterina with a request to provide them with the vast and uninhabited shores of the Kuban for settlement, the answer was not long in coming. 30 June 1 7 9 2 c. Catherine II signed a decree on the relocation of the Cossacks to the land near the Kuban and the chartered letter of eternal possession of them. In total, about 25 of thousands of people distributed to 40 smokers moved to Kuban, from which 38 received the old Zaporozhye names. And under Emperor Nicholas I, in 1828, they returned to their homeland and brought repentance to the Russian Tsar, the Cossacks of the Danubian Sich. These prodigal sons of the fatherland also settled in the Kuban.

The Black Sea (renamed Kuban in 1861) army faithfully served Russia, with glory participating in all the wars of our Motherland. AT "Stories General Potto’s Caucasian Wars (1911) describes the enormous role that the former Zaporozhian Cossacks, who had become Kubanians, played in the conquest of the Caucasus and in the wars with the Turks. Having settled in the Kuban, the Cossacks quickly adopted clothing and weapons from the mountaineers. Recall that in Kuban 1945 entered into Berlin. And today, the glorious sons of Kuban have contributed to the war against Chechen separatism. The speech of the Kubanians and still at its core is Malorossiysk.

In Ukraine, a peculiar “Zaporozhye myth” was formed, according to which, in 1775, the “Moskali” because of the eternal hatred of Ukrainians destroyed the last stronghold of Ukraine, Zaporizhzhya Sich. And on the revival of the Cossacks and its subsequent glorious history, the svidomies keep quiet because this completely destroys the myth of the destruction of the Zaporozhye army. And not a single textbook on the First Zaporizhia Empress Catherine the Great Regiment of the Kuban Cossack Army can be found in any modern history textbook, which for its valor was awarded almost all the highest differences of the empire. So, for the capture of Kars, the regiment was awarded the silver pipes of St. George, after the war 1877-1878. received St. George's standard, and for the conquest of the Western Caucasus on the head of the Cossacks were awarded special commemorative signs. Empress Catherine the Great until the very 1 9 1 7 of the year was considered the eternal chef in this heroic regiment.

So now believe the stories about mutual hatred of Zaporizhzhya Cossacks and the Russian Tsarina.
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  1. Che
    Che
    +11
    28 February 2013 08: 34
    All right, we are one people and together we solve our problems. Asvidomyh listen only time to lose - life goes forward.
    1. +31
      28 February 2013 08: 51
      The descendants of the Zaporozhye Cossacks in the Kuban write such poems.
      Calling recipients, I think, is not necessary.

      Lackeys are the eternal of Europe,
      Her spiritual slaves,
      You perverted paternal experience
      And ancestors betrayed coffins.

      By the whim of a bad serf,
      Servants of other people's ideas,
      You have become a cattle of Europe
      You love whistling whips.

      You betrayed Russia a hundredfold,
      Alien entrusted with the mind.
      Rus forgive you, but back
      Pulling your neck to the yoke.

      You motherland dear foreign land.
      And you are destined because
      To know the will ... only the master
      And forever bow to him.

      V.V. RODIMOVA. Art. Crossing, Krasnodar Territory.
      1. asavchenko59
        0
        1 March 2013 07: 53
        I agree, you are worse than the Jews.
      2. mentalowl
        0
        18 March 2015 08: 46
        The poem belongs to Elena Fominichna Lavrentieva, from Donetsk, written in 2003. From what heaven did V.V. RODIMOVA appear. Art. Crossing, Krasnodar Territory. ??
      3. mentalowl
        0
        18 March 2015 08: 52
        We did not ask to love Russia.
        Your dislike of us is not a disaster.
        If you do not like Russia,
        Is there a road to x @ yo gentlemen !?
    2. Yoshkin Kot
      -17
      28 February 2013 11: 46
      we? one people? with whom? with the Kuban? but talk about it too much! then with whom? with the descendants of 140 summer ukrov? not a fig, died so died!
      reunification of Russia is possible only in one case, when former Russians will kill ukrointsy in themselves! for anyone who considers himself a Ukrainian (ethnic) a priori is a Russophobe, only some, such as Bandera and Svolotov’s, are in a phase of aggravation, while others swearing in brotherhood will replenish the ranks of the scum in another situation!
      1. Gemar
        +3
        28 February 2013 14: 12
        Quote: Yoshkin the Cat
        swearing in brotherhood, in another situation they will replenish the ranks of the bastards!

        Jews used to teach the Slavs how to live and die ... Now trolls! laughing
        1. +4
          28 February 2013 14: 33
          Quote: Gamar
          Now the trolls!

          There was an article on the site about organizing and paying Jewish trolls. So that nothing is changed in this world laughing

          Quote: Gamar
          Now the trolls!

          There was an article on the site about organizing and paying Jewish trolls. So that nothing is changed in this world laughing
          1. Gemar
            +4
            28 February 2013 18: 04
            Quote: qwert
            Jewish trolls.

            belay
            But shaw, is he still a Jewish Troll ???
            Well, you must definitely listen to the Jewish troll ... and do the opposite!
            Quote: Yoshkin Cat
            when former Russians kill ukrointsev in themselves

            I won’t replace Garni Lviv with the sworn Tel Aviv! wink Ukrainians are brothers to us! drinks

            Give MIT cooperation with the Yuzhnoye design bureau to create a new liquid! Otherwise, I'm afraid the Chinese will grasp the technologies they need so much!
      2. -2
        1 March 2013 00: 25
        The minus article was written by an amateur.
      3. 0
        1 March 2013 08: 06
        Quote: Yoshkin Cat
        reunification of Russia is possible only in one case, when former Russians will kill ukrointsy in themselves!

        I can’t understand what are the cons for you?
        Probably for that?
        Quote: Yoshkin Cat
        we? one people? with whom? with the Kuban? but talk about it too much! then with whom? with the descendants of 140 summer ukrov? not a fig, died so died!

        It turns out that you are in two sentences, contradict yourself ...
        Express your thought more precisely and everything will be WELL ...

        As for the Svidomo Ukrainians ...
        It is worth remembering the words of Taras Bulba at the stake:
        Taras Bulba went through many bloody battles: he saw the death of his comrades, survived the betrayal of his youngest son Andriy and the terrible execution of the eldest - Ostap. But no blows of fate can break his rebellious spirit, take away from the main goal - revenge on the oppressors Ukrainian land.
        Tragic and beautiful is the end of the life path of Taras Bulba. Nailed to a tree, he thinks about saving the Cossacks, shouting to them with all his strength: “Farewell, comrades! Remember me ... come here again and take a good walk! ” At this time, the fire under him was lit, fire grabbed his legs. “But can there really be such lights, torments, and such a force that would overpower Russian power! " - the writer exclaims with pride for his hero and pain for him.
        In the image of Taras Bulba, the main character of the novel of the same name by N.V. Gogol, all the best qualities inherent in the heroic personality of the era of struggle are embodied Ukrainian people for exemption from oppression of the Poles. [/b]
        http://slovo.ws/comp/ru/0892.html

        Where is it about mos-ka-lei?
        The oppression of the Poles - is,
        there are Ukrainian people,
        Russian (!) power on the Ukrainian land-outskirts of Russia (!) - is ...

        Tired of these Natsik already listen and read about them.
        How long will the Russian people of Ukraine endure this trash ???????????????????
    3. yurasumy
      -3
      28 February 2013 18: 22
      If the stupid reprinting of a history textbook is something new then of course the author of the article is a genius. I have a question, what did the author of this material tell us about the new? Nothing. Not to mention the complete lack of knowledge of the material.
      1. anton107798
        -5
        28 February 2013 19: 48
        LTD!!! Ukraine was remembered again! Well, what without it. We’ve lived for centuries in the darkness of history and didn’t know the truth, now everything will go differently at once, because the good and warm neighbors from the Empire told us the whole truth! They really don’t really know their own, but to teach is a great thing!
        Great teachers know and remember everything.
        1. 0
          28 February 2013 22: 18
          but no one has forgotten, and I can show that Sich is the grain, the truly Russian truth about the essential, without dust of authorities and ideologies,
          I dragged a 6,5-year-old overcoat, marine, about 4 civilian uniforms on a uniform,
          and when I was a cadet, we were allowed to pick up the "lost" together with the cops -
          - swollen (vile sight), and children to look for, raised on alarm and the whole city (Murmansk) turned over the squares,
          probably from this we need to start-seek and neutralize evil,
          SICH is our future, s and her
      2. Rus120088
        0
        1 March 2013 15: 52
        I completely agree with your conclusion. The author tried to bring us something, but did not draw conclusions.
        In my opinion, everything is simpler. Ukrainians cannot forgive Catherine, not the dispersal of the Zaporizhzhya army, but the mass serfdom that followed this dispersal.
    4. Xtra1l
      +2
      28 February 2013 21: 02
      For positive
  2. stroporez
    +3
    28 February 2013 09: 50
    what were the current Ukrainian "lights" worth --- sahaidachny, nalyvayko, etc. can be read in the annals (for example, in the Barkulab chronicle) and, note, it was not written by the Muscovites
    1. yurasumy
      +3
      28 February 2013 18: 58
      Forget the heresy taught at school that the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks of the 16-17th centuries are runaway peasants. It was another people who knew how to fight and rob (here you correctly noticed. They did not differ much from the Tatars.) Therefore, they calmly raided both Lithuania and Moscow, and Poland, and the Ottoman Empire . For almost the entire period they were allied with the Crimean kingdom. Therefore, they were often not separated from the Tatars. Only when they made a campaign separate from the Tatars did they talk about a new liberation war, then about a campaign against Turkey, then about a campaign against Moscow (Sagaidachny distinguished himself especially in these campaigns).
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        5 March 2013 15: 20
        Quote: yurasumy
        they were allies of the Crimean kingdom.

        Kyrymly Haji Mehmed Senai, "The Book of Campaigns or the History of Khan Islyam Girai the Third", Part IX, "Arrival of Hetman Melniski to the Threshold of Khazret Sahibkiran with a Request for Protection and Apologizing to Him for His Request":

        "In the year one thousand fifty-seventh, the first day of the month of Zulqad, for the first time during the reign of the khan and the vizier, all the army forgave each other and made peace, freeing their hearts from the anger that boiled in them, all the emirs and the army reached unity and unanimity, and it turned out that as if the moon and the sun of the power looked out from behind black clouds, the world lit up, and the face of the army became smiling and cheerful, and everyone came to the unanimous opinion that for a clear faith and for the state now the most important thing is the determination to be ready on gas and jihad against malicious enemies, and everyone girded themselves with gazavat sabers, put on sword belts and other weapons, and with their readiness, as it were, provoked the Sahibkiran of the time to take decisive action.
        ...
        At this very time, the local nobles of the country of Lehistan, that is, dogs that pass for respectable people, were in a state of hostility with the border [Crimea] infidel Dnieper (note: Zaporizhzhya) Cossacks and were busy preparing to come with the army and destroy all the Zaporozhye Cossacks , and then the true lion, the commander of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, that is, a tribe of people beating the bells, a hetman named Melniska fostered in his soul a desire to be honored to become a Muslim, and since he is a true fighter, able to serve Allah eternal well, then, perhaps, that he will become a Muslim.

        And then this Melniska, a clever man and a fearless hero, who threw out his old hostility to our faith from his heart and had no choice but to ask for help sent his plenipotentiary ambassadors, and those, having performed the ceremony of humility, complained of their weakness and oppression by the Poles, and since, according to the customs of the Chingizovs who applied for help, their former enmity and wrongdoing is forgiven, an order was issued to cover all past grievances with a hem of forgiveness.

        Since the support of people in their aspirations to achieve the desired was also in the customs of the former kings, and for this royal house this property is especially inherent, mercy was shown to the mentioned hetman Melniski.

        Having said that "those who beat their foreheads against our high threshold and show humility, nevertheless, even if they are giaurs, do not deserve to be outraged and destroyed by their enemies," in response to their request, several emirs of the Tatars were sent to help - the persecutors of the enemies, appointing the above-mentioned commandant of the fortress Ferahkerman Tugay bek over them as a serasker and serdar, and then the king of the throne Suleimanov, like Iskander khazret padishah, personally followed the gathering for the campaign and gas and at the beginning of the blessed spring they girded themselves with the sword of jihad.

        As usual in such matters "In the name of Allah, the merciful and merciful!"

        -------------
        Guess who we are talking about?)))
  3. Kubanets
    +16
    28 February 2013 10: 07
    Article + It is worth reminding the broad Svidomo preaching autocephaly and Uniatism that an inapplicable condition for admission to the Sich was "Do you believe in an Orthodox God" As you know at that time, the center of Orthodoxy was in Muscovy. A Shcherbina (Ekaterinodar 1910)
    1. +12
      28 February 2013 10: 42
      Quote: Kubanets
      As you know at that time, the center of Orthodoxy was in Muscovy.

      Russians and, in particular, Muscovites never called themselves Muscovites, but their city or country Muscovy. These terms were invented and actively used in the Austrian Empire and in Poland with the Jesuit purpose of information warfare. Nevertheless, they themselves were aware of who they were talking about. For example, the famous work of Herberstein in the first Basel edition of 1563 in the subtitle is called: "RUSSIA, & qua nunс eius metropolis est, Moscovia, breufsima descriptio" - RUSSIA and now its capital Muscovy, the shortest description. Now they took out what they stuffed the Galitsaevs with in Austria and Poland, on this basis they wrote their interpretations, and they are trying to drive it into the brain of all Ukraine. And we need to understand where the legs grow from. For me it is unambiguous - if the author in the book, article uses the terms "Muscovy", "Muscovites", then this publication is ALL LIE, and in front of me is a sample of Jesuit propaganda and information war.

      Approximately like "this country", but maybe even worse and meaner.
      1. - = ALEX = -
        -2
        28 February 2013 11: 39
        ".. Russia began to be called" Russia "for the first time officially only under Peter I (decree of 1721), who considered the former name - Muscovy - dark and obscurantist. Peter not only began to forcefully shave his beards, banned all Muscovy women from wearing the veil in the Asian manner and banned harems (a tower where women were kept locked up), but on trips around Europe he sought from cartographers so that from now on maps his country would be called not Muscovy or Muscovy, as before, but Russia. And so that the Muscovites themselves would be considered Slavs for the first time in history, which was the general strategy for "cutting a window to Europe" - coupled with Peter's request to move the eastern border of Europe from the border between Muscovy and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania now to the Urals, thereby including, for the first time in history, geographically Muscovy as a part of Europe .. "
  4. xan
    +7
    28 February 2013 10: 12
    It was the Cossacks who stormed the Khadzhibey fortress by night storm, on the site of which Odessa now stands. They seized the island of Berezan with a swift attack.

    Well, everything, from these facts it costs nothing to dig out the foundation of Odessa and the expulsion of the Turks from Novorossiya. Once I read on cartons of milk in Crimea that the founder and organizer of Novorossiya, the Duke of Richelieu, instilled Western agricultural standards in Ukrainians. Presumably, this is after the Cossacks took possession of Khadzhibey and Berezan. And everything seems to be true. And Ekaterina with Potemkin and her Moscow "gangs" were passing by.
    1. +3
      28 February 2013 11: 12
      xan "Well, that's it, these facts do nothing to dig out the foundation of Odessa and the expulsion of the Turks from Novorossiya."
      One clown of Bandera seriously proved to me that the Ukrainians took Ishmael.
      He just heard that the Cossacks took part in the assault. But then they were armed, for some reason the peaks and the Turks crushed them with scimitars. Do not be our soldiers with bayonets what would be left of them there. Well, if seriously the conquest of the Black Sea and Crimea from the Turks without a regular Russian army would be impossible. Do not understand this only coming up with a new story bandandeologists !!!
      1. Rus120088
        +2
        1 March 2013 16: 12
        Nagaybak be tolerant. Each of us has the right to express our point of view on this issue on the basis of our own knowledge and vision of this issue. And the fact that the fortress of Hadzhibey (Adzhibey) was taken by two regiments of Cossacks under the command of Ataman Golovaty and Ataman Chepigi, as well as a company of the regular Russian army, is a fact against which there is no arguing.
    2. +4
      28 February 2013 12: 12
      Quote: xan
      the founder and organizer of New Russia, the Duke of Richelieu instilled in Ukraine the western standards of agriculture.

      All is true! Only who sent the Duke of Richelieu to New Russia? Or did he drive in a carriage and decide to stop for a minute? laughing
    3. +6
      28 February 2013 14: 16
      The monuments of Catherine, Potemkin, Duke de Reshill, and even the chieftain Golovatoy stand in Odessa. No one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten, so that the Svidomo laughing .
  5. Fox
    -18
    28 February 2013 10: 23
    plusanul ... but about the baptized Cossacks the author had enough. Pugachev was not baptized, like his Cossacks ... they drove the priests, and celebrated their rituals, the Cossacks. It is not worth the Jewish-peasant religion to "mold" the Cossacks.
    1. +13
      28 February 2013 12: 15
      Quote: Fox
      but about the baptized Cossacks, the author was enough.

      You are mistaken, dear! The Cossacks were baptized, and very vigilantly watched those who were baptized. It is precisely by the way they put the cross (Orthodox - from right to left, Catholics - from left to right) that they successfully identified in their ranks of uniate scouts. And the conversation was short with them!
    2. consul
      +5
      28 February 2013 12: 17
      The Ural Cossacks, to which Pugachev belonged, were Old Believer Christians, hence the attitude. I’ll exterminate, but the Old Believer and the Gentile cannot heal the need for one hectare.
      1. predator.3
        +3
        28 February 2013 13: 37
        In fact, Emelyan Ivanovich from the Don Cossacks will be born in the Cossack village of Zimoveyskaya Don region.
        1. consul
          +2
          28 February 2013 15: 13
          In fact, Emelyan Ivanovich from the Don Cossacks will be born in the Cossack village of Zimoveyskaya Don region.
          Guilty, absolutely right, forgotten. And the Yaitsk Cossacks after the rebellion were renamed the Ural.
    3. Rus120088
      +1
      1 March 2013 16: 32
      I don’t know if Pugachev was baptized or not, but when I was once interested in the history of the Cossacks, I came across a very interesting fact. I don’t remember exactly whether or not in the Stockholm Museum in Sweden, but it’s for sure that it is in Sweden, there are banners of the Cossack army, the part that fought against Peter on the side of the Swedes. So on one of these banners, photo banners can be found on the Internet, there are images of both the cross and the crescent, as well as the Jewish star, which leads to reflection.
  6. radar75
    -10
    28 February 2013 10: 24
    The difference between an article on a historical topic and propaganda is that the first is based on strictly scientific, verified facts, and the second, as in this case, on ideological cliches. I don’t even want to argue with the authors. There is no subject.
    1. djon3volta
      +3
      28 February 2013 13: 52
      Well, what don’t you like? Someone laid out a map here, Ukraine there was 10 times smaller when you were not part of Russia. You have conquered territories, but you don’t want to admit it ..
      1. Gemar
        0
        28 February 2013 18: 08
        Quote: djon3volta
        you conquered the territory

        I agree! +++ good
      2. anton107798
        -4
        28 February 2013 19: 53
        Oh thank you! Probably tired of the poor? To conquer the land for us ... But to themselves, well, they didn’t take any drops! ay-ay-ay ... how so?
    2. +4
      28 February 2013 14: 05
      Quote: radar75
      The difference between an article on a historical topic and propaganda is that the first is based on strictly scientific, verified facts, and the second, as in this case, on ideological cliches. I don’t even want to argue with the authors. There is no subject.

      Well, who's stopping you from bringing a couple of "proven facts"? And then your comment is about nothing. They say - I do not like it that way - and therefore "there is no subject."
      Yes. The article contains qualitative assessments. And for this she "+". However, even without such assessments, a more or less thinking person would come to such conclusions himself. Without any "ideologies".
      Listen to those old Kuban Cossack songs, you will understand a lot. Without any "stamps".
      1. yurasumy
        +1
        28 February 2013 18: 36
        Okay, I’ll write one comment. But I won’t. Well, to show that the author really does not own the material and there really is nothing to argue about.
        Zaporizhzhya Sich is not just 38 smokers enclosed by a rampart and located on one of the islands of the Dnieper. They are also residents of palanques. The status of these residents was slightly different than that of the Cossacks. Basically, they just engaged in the procurement of food for the Sich (although of course some of the Cossacks were of them). So the future Kuban army was overwhelmingly formed from the former inhabitants of the palanoks, and not from the actual Zaporozhye Cossacks, who for the most part went to the Ottoman Empire beyond the Danube. The mere fact that the author confuses these concepts speaks of his complete incompetence (I read the history textbook and copied it here).
        P.S. In general, I do not understand such topics about anything. If you already started to knock on the keyboard, then write something that contains either unknown or little-known information.
  7. +4
    28 February 2013 10: 32
    Rights Catherine II. This is an abscess that needed to be opened.
    And let the Ukrainians remember that only for the Russians they are brothers and equal. For the rest of Europe, they were and are slaves, slaves ..... well, and the rest are not hospitable nicknames.
    Article "+".
    1. - = ALEX = -
      -3
      28 February 2013 11: 34
      Farewell, unwashed Russia,
      The country of slaves, the country of gentlemen.
      And you, blue uniforms,
      And you, loyal people to them.
  8. +4
    28 February 2013 10: 44
    Excellent article! good
  9. Sirozha
    -5
    28 February 2013 11: 04
    Gentlemen, do not you think that you are bending? Why if I say that I am Ukrainian and I am proud of it, that I want to be independent from Russia, then I’m immediately a Bandera and a Nazi and many more unpleasant epithets, but if you’re snot about Russia and the Russians, about how you won all the wars and how wonderful you are, then you are white and fluffy patriots of Russia! Be more tolerant of the desire of people to live in their own country, have their own culture and language, and not be malorosami and swineherds (as someone put it here - for such a thing you need to beat the turnip).
    I don’t give a damn about the article, but minus the author for talking about something fraternal between us, he humiliates this brotherly people!
    1. xan
      +5
      28 February 2013 11: 42
      Sirozha,

      To humiliate the brotherly people is to talk about the Zaporizhzhya Sich in the article in the same way as the author did. Clear.
      There are no questions, build and live in your Ukraine, but without Russian lands and people. For some reason, the Russians have no questions for Belarus.
      1. Sirozha
        0
        28 February 2013 12: 02
        Do you think calling Ukrainians swineherd is not a humiliation? Is it normal to tell something there about the brotherhood of nations and at the same time call names somehow? You want to be treated normally, so you behave the same! Consider me equal to you (not in terms of number of people and territory), but in moral and national quality, do not call me Khokhlom, Maloros, Saloed, and I will not call you Katzpom, Muscovites, turnip and I will consider my brother! Call your brother, treat yourself like a brother!
        1. biglow
          +10
          28 February 2013 12: 26
          Sirozha,
          and what you don't like maloros. Literally, it is a small or primordial Russia. Such a name is probably better than the outskirts
          1. Avenger711
            +1
            1 March 2013 08: 33
            I have a grandfather of Little Russia with a very little Little Russian surname and I am proud of it.
        2. 0
          28 February 2013 21: 25
          The scribe, the Cossacks tse KOZAKI !!! And the rest of the swineherds
      2. +3
        28 February 2013 14: 19
        No need to generalize, there is another opinion we are one people
      3. anton107798
        -6
        28 February 2013 20: 00
        and what Belarusians then? you crushed everything there! what questions can be? But in Ukraine, it’s impossible to get through, oh yes, and you have to cooperate ... airplanes, and especially the engines for them ... well, we’ve been without you for more than 20 years, but for some reason you don’t have how to calm down you can not
        1. stroporez
          0
          28 February 2013 20: 21
          yeah)))))))))) and the phobos soil collapsed because sho did not receive the blessings of ancient ukrov ...........
      4. Rus120088
        +1
        1 March 2013 16: 47
        Khan, do not copy politicians. The rule - divide and rule, was invented back in ancient Rome by the local philosophers and politicians.
    2. biglow
      +1
      28 February 2013 11: 43
      Sirozha,
      In today's world, all independence is conditional.
      1. Sirozha
        -4
        28 February 2013 11: 50
        By independence, I did not mean isolation, I meant the right to my own culture, language and desire to be a people - a UKRAINIAN, and not a maloros, as many of us consider. And friendly relations and trade should be, no one is against.
        Yes, and I am very sure that the negative attitude from the Russians, in recent times, has been dictated by television. And I myself, while watching Russian television, see how we are being watered, intentionally, with dirt. Your brains are powdered as if we are sleeping and see mosk_lei hanging on birches - that’s all rubbish!
        1. biglow
          +5
          28 February 2013 12: 02
          Sirozha,
          independence is given to those countries that were colonies. Stalin freed Galicia from Poland. For some reason, during the time of Polish rule, local residents did not even try to fight. What else is needed?
          Your brains are powdered as if we are sleeping and see mosk_lei hanging on birches - that’s all rubbish!

          komunyaki on gilyaki is a common slogan at the rallies of the nationalists. is that?
          1. Good man
            -8
            28 February 2013 16: 45
            Quote: biglow
            independence is given to those countries that were colonies. Stalin freed Galicia from Poland. For some reason, during the time of Polish rule, local residents did not even try to fight. What else is needed?

            History of Ukraine in the school did not teach? 1918-1920 UNR.?
            Why was Bander serving a life sentence in a Polish prison?
            100 thousand killed Poles between 1941-1944? did not hear?

            Quote: biglow
            Stalin freed Galicia from Poland

            Liberation is when they are released, and not when they change one colony of strict regime to another ...
            1. biglow
              +5
              28 February 2013 17: 37
              Good man,
              your Bandera was serving a criminal sentence for the murder of one of his own. The reasons for the murder were related to money relations. There was no political background there. The political Germans were kept at the end of the camps and were usually shot and not released
              Liberation is when they are set free, and not when one colony of a strict regime is changed to another.

              what do you think was bad under the Soviet regime? That cows were taken into state ownership and educated people. We built factories that you turned into ruins over the past 20 years and now have to wash toilets in Europe
              1. Good man
                -4
                28 February 2013 17: 54
                Quote: biglow
                your Bandera was serving a criminal sentence for the murder of one of his own. The reasons for the murder were related to monetary relations. There was no political motive there.

                The decision on the assassination of the Minister of Internal Affairs of Poland Bronislaw Peratsky was adopted in April 1933 at a special conference of the OUN. Ukrainian nationalists considered Peratsky to be the main implementer of the Polish policy of pacification in Western Ukraine, the author of the plan for the so-called “extermination of Russia,” which the Polish authorities did not agree to [33]. Stepan Bandera, at that time known under the pseudonyms "Baba" and "Fox", was entrusted with general leadership over the assassination attempt. The attempt took place on June 15, 1934: at the entrance to a cafe in Warsaw, the minister was killed by the young fighter Grigory Matseyko, who managed to escape from the scene of the crime and later fled abroad. The day before the murder, Stepan Bandera and his comrade Bogdan Pidgayny [ru] were arrested by the Polish police while trying to cross the Polish-Czech border [ru]. Soon, the police recorded Bandera and Pidgainy’s contacts with Nikolai Klimishin [ru], who was previously arrested in Lviv, who was suspected of involvement in the assassination of Peratsky. The investigation began. For a year and a half Bandera was kept in solitary confinement, shackled in shackles - his hands were released only during meals [34] [35] [36].


                Quote: biglow
                what do you think was bad under the Soviet regime? That cows were taken into state ownership and educated people. Plants and factories were built

                And I understand that you are one of those who will sell their candle factory and homeland. Do you want to change the freedom of your people into factories and a can of condensed milk - go ahead. Only Ukraine and Ukrainians do not drag this.
                Quote: biglow
                and now they have to wash toilets in Europe

                Please keep your toilet fantasies to yourself.
                Quote: biglow
                you have turned into ruins over the past 20 years

                compare the share of prom. goods into the import of today's Russia since 1991 and see what they did to the industry of your RF and without Ukrainians.
                1. stroporez
                  +3
                  28 February 2013 20: 27
                  Yes, why are there fantasies .....)))))))))) Poles on the radio said on the air why the Ukrainians are good.
              2. +4
                28 February 2013 18: 30
                I agree. I read the article, I did not read anything that offends national feelings. I am a purebred h.o.kh.o.l, not a single Russian is in my family. So it turned out that I live in Russia, I often visit my own people in Ukraine, specifically Mr. .Uzhgorod. In the summer in the district there are only old people and small children because everyone is able to work on earnings, and by the way in the same "Muscovy". And all this talk about national identity is nonsense. I agree that under the USSR, Ukraine did not live very badly. In the village where My grandmother lives, Coal is called, there was even a branch of the Taganrog Aviation Plant !!! 2 sawmills, a quarry for the extraction of marble, 2 collective farms, a bakery, a mill, etc., and now nothing at all !!! So who is asking this " vigor, that ne lezhnosti "is needed !?
                1. +2
                  28 February 2013 21: 37
                  Express yourself in Russian competently respected, not in Ukraine, but in Ukraine!
                2. Avenger711
                  0
                  1 March 2013 08: 35
                  And x_o_x_o_l than not Russian?
            2. +1
              28 February 2013 21: 34
              Why not 100 million "killed" Poles at once? wassat
            3. +3
              28 February 2013 23: 49
              Quote: Good man
              100 thousand killed Poles between 1941-1944? did not hear?

              I found what I am proud of. 100 thousand sleepy women and children killed by "hot" gutsuls. And unarmed grain growers. This is valor, these are certainly worthy descendants of the Zaporozhye lytsary2.
              Quote: Good man
              Why was Bander serving a life sentence in a Polish prison?

              For banditry.
              Quote: Good man
              Liberation is when they are released, and not when they change one colony of strict regime to another ...

              So after all there was no such country as Hutsul or Galician. Never. And the UNR is so, an unsuccessful experiment. Someone there, on behalf of the type of the whole people of Ukraine living in the area from San to Kuban, blurted out something. Exactly, as they say now. , also "on behalf of the whole people .. In general, I read the" history "from Hrushevskogo, puke pulls. In Buzina, this period of" Ukrainian history "is described much more interesting and ... more truthfully. It was especially funny how the Germans kicked the so-called. n. "government".
        2. +7
          28 February 2013 12: 42
          Quote: Sirozha
          I meant the right to my own culture, language and desire to be a people - UKRAINIAN

          Nobody takes away this right. But about how to be called, you need to ask people, after giving him HONEST information.
        3. +3
          28 February 2013 12: 55
          Sirozha (1) Today, 11:50 AM
          ".... and the desire to be a people is a UKRAINIAN, and not a maloros .....". Dear, we have one people, these are the Great, Maloros and Belarusians. And Ukraine is from the word outskirts, which became the former center of the Russian people after Baty literally razed Kiev to the ground, and the center of the political life of our people moved to the Vladimir principality, which suffered less.
        4. +5
          28 February 2013 13: 38
          Quote: Sirozha
          Your brains are powdered as if we are sleeping and see mosk_lei hanging on birches - that’s all rubbish!


          Countryman, have you ever seen performances such as Farion? But she is far from alone. So the Russians have every reason to believe that Ukraine has developed hostile sentiments in Russia
          1. Rus120088
            0
            1 March 2013 17: 11
            Countryman, have you ever seen a performance like Zhirinovsky at least once? So what then should be the mood of the Ukrainians?
            These politicians remind me very much of jesters under the tsar’s priest in fairy tales, what the tsar cannot utter by ear, he utters his jester by ear.
        5. Mefodiy
          +3
          28 February 2013 16: 59
          If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist.
          * If a Russian speaks \\\\ - he kindly sneers at the representative of the fraternal people. If a Ukrainian says "b", he thereby reveals his nationalist, anti-Russian essence.
          * If a Russian rally - he defends his interests. If a Ukrainian is rallying, he will work off American money paid to him for anti-Russian purposes.
          * If the Russian president communicates with the American president, he builds relations between the two countries. If the Ukrainian president communicates with the American president, they both weave an anti-Russian conspiracy.
          * If Russian speaks Russian, it is simply Russian. If a Ukrainian speaks the Ukrainian language, he is Petliura unfinished.
          * If the president of Russia declares pro-Russian slogans, this is a normal president. If the president of Ukraine declares pro-Ukrainian slogans - he is a pro-American and anti-Russian president.
          1. biglow
            +3
            28 February 2013 17: 44
            Mefodiy,
            you agree to the end
            if a Ukrainian demands from those who live in Ukraine to love alien heroes and speak a rural dialect calling him the language, then we really consider such a person and will consider him to be a terry Bandera nationalist
            Which is the truth.
            Normal people develop their culture and do not impose it on anyone, pretending to be the only correct one and do not say that since you live in Ukraine you must and must speak Ukrainian. mov, and your Russian is the language of the invaders ...
            You yourself started it all and led to a split, and you will have to reap these fruits ...
            1. Good man
              -4
              28 February 2013 18: 10
              Quote: biglow
              if a Ukrainian demands from those who live in Ukraine to love alien heroes and speak a rural dialect calling it language then we really consider such a person and will consider a terry Bandera nationalist

              And people like you are called Nazis.
              Quote: biglow
              Normal people develop their culture and do not impose it on anyone, pretending to be the only correct one and do not say that since you live in Ukraine you must and must speak Ukrainian. mov, and your Russian is the language of the invaders ...

              And Chechens with Dagestanis do not learn Russian in the Russian Federation? Are you studying in your own way in Moscow? Or maybe in the army to give orders in the languages ​​of all the peoples living in Ukraine?
              Quote: biglow
              You yourself started it all and led to a split, and you will have to reap these fruits ...

              Well, of course, the opponent is always to blame, and even more so if he is Ukrainian laughing
              1. Avenger711
                +2
                1 March 2013 08: 40
                Chechens and Dagestanis in Russia do not come close to any significant number. And why the entire population of Ukraine, who speak all the way of standard literary Russian from infancy, should speak a foreign language, this is an interesting question.

                In Europe, where you crash so much, there are a number of rules on this subject that you will not like.
                1. Rus120088
                  -1
                  1 March 2013 17: 25
                  Avenger711,
                  And who told you that in Ukraine, from infancy, they speak only the Russian language. So I can bring to your attention that since childhood they have been speaking in Ukraine not only the Russian language, but oddly enough also Ukrainian, also Moldavian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian, Greek, Gagauz, Hungarian, German, Armenian and other languages, languages peoples who have been living on its territory since ancient times.
                  Do you know that almost the very days of the founding of Lviv, and it is already more than 700 years old, entire quarters of Armenians lived on its territory, not to mention the Poles, Jews and others?
                  And you yourself, what do you know the languages ​​of the peoples now living in Russia?
                  1. +1
                    9 July 2014 18: 42
                    Quote: Rus120088
                    that in Ukraine from infancy they speak not only the Russian language, but oddly enough also Ukrainian, also Moldavian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian, Greek, Gagauz, Hungarian, German, Armenian and other languages, the languages ​​of the peoples who live in


                    "'Carried you, Erema, Like a coche on chickens .."

                    Loudly said own. Units own and the rest so ... a couple of phrases.
          2. +1
            28 February 2013 21: 40
            Uso correctly you gut ... Ainets, I put Toby + !!! laughing
          3. +4
            28 February 2013 23: 52
            Yes, good health, love for the Fatherland is a sublime feeling. But at the same time, there is no need to "drive" the Russian people to the friendly Ukraine. And then even the thought will not arise to accuse the Ukrainians of hatred of Russia and everything Russian. COMRADES RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIANS - BE MUTUALLY PLEASANT!
            1. Rus120088
              -2
              1 March 2013 17: 30
              Guys, and no one drives. Simply, such articles excuse the expression of the ignoramus, lead to contention between virtually the same people.
        6. +4
          28 February 2013 21: 32
          The name Ukr ... Ainets appeared in the 20 of the 20 century, it is the fruit of the ill imagination of the then politicians, the name was originally vicious, not corresponding to historical reality, and hence all the troubles of an independent ur ... aina, as a state without a future
    3. +11
      28 February 2013 12: 40
      What I will support SIRYOZHU is that calling someone swineherds is really humiliation. And you shouldn't do that! This is a violation of the site rules. However, I would like to remind you once again what I already wrote about - the name Little Russia was introduced by Prince of Galitsky and Volyn Yuri-2, who called himself the Grand Duke of Little Russia in 1355. And there is nothing wrong with that! Like all literate and educated people who studied Greek to read Christian and philosophical books, he knew that the word "small" in Greek means "central", from which the rest of the state expanded and grew. There is "Little Greece" (Athens) and there is "Great Greece" - Hellas.
      The word "Ukrainian" in the meaning of nationality appeared only at the end of the 19th century, when the Poles, eager to raise another uprising against tsarist Russia, began to lure the Little Russians into their ranks, proving to the latter that they were also humiliated by Russian tsarism, like the Poles. (Well, the Poles have always loved to fight with someone else's hands, and the Catholic Church, represented by the Jesuits, even invented the Uniate Church, which conducted services in the Little Russian dialect according to the Orthodox rite, but obeyed the Pope).
      Move on. Unfortunately, the Bolsheviks also had their hand in the "creation of Ukrainians". it was beneficial for them to show tsarist Russia as a "prison of peoples". The word "Little Russian" has been diligently erased from memory for over 100 years. and there is nothing surprising in the fact that those living today call themselves Ukrainians. And there is no need to hang on everyone who calls themselves Ukrainians, the label Bandera. just remember Marshal Rybalko, the hero-partisan S. Kovpak. and many, many others. So it doesn't matter how exactly people call themselves at this stage, especially since there are no explanations about Little Russians = Ukrainian simply. The main thing is that people are decent.
      1. +2
        28 February 2013 12: 44
        Quote: Egoza
        the Uniate Church, which served in the Little Russian dialect according to the Orthodox rite, but was subordinate to the Pope

        In 1720, at the Cathedral in Zamosc, the Uniates adopted the Catholic creed.
      2. +1
        28 February 2013 13: 02
        Egoza "The main thing is that people are decent."
        A huge plus for you !!! I completely agree with you !!!
      3. +5
        28 February 2013 16: 36
        Quote: Egoza
        What I support SIRYOJU - so that calling anyone swineherd is really a humiliation.

        But the favorite of the daughter of Peter 1 Elizabeth Petrovna before becoming a count was ... swineherd. And it's okay. Yes, Razumovsky was swineherd ....
        1. xan
          +2
          28 February 2013 20: 04
          revnagan,
          Razumovsky was not offended
          Sirozh has a finer organization
        2. Rus120088
          0
          1 March 2013 17: 36
          revnagan,
          Yes, it is a fact. But according to the same data, Razumovsky was the secret husband of Elizabeth Petrovna, and then, based on your own logic, the Russian tsarina, the daughter of Peter the Great, was the wife of a swineherd.
      4. stroporez
        0
        5 March 2013 14: 58
        Well, I just can't understand sho offensive in the word "Little Russia" !!! ????? Little Russia is like a cart, the cradle from which RUS went to be. sho you dog ............
    4. +5
      28 February 2013 14: 15
      Quote: Sirozha
      I don’t give a damn about the article, but minus the author for talking about something fraternal between us, he humiliates this brotherly people!

      Proud of origin, it is about the same as a dog proud of its tail. To a man, if there is anything to be proud of, then the story of his family, his ancestors, their accomplishments, and first of all, his own. And to be proud of nationality - this is not even stupid - is ridiculous.
      And what kind of insults and "humiliations"? Can it really hurt and humiliate a person that his ancestors wrote such glorious pages in the history of Rus?
    5. +2
      28 February 2013 21: 18
      You are Ukrainian ... you began to be called an Aintz from the 20 of the 20 century, and before that no one knew such a nation laughing
      1. +1
        28 February 2013 21: 23
        Quote: voronov
        You are Ukrainian ... you began to be called an Aintz from the 20 of the 20 century, and before that no one knew such a nation


        so I endured for a long time and did not intervene. but my patience comes to an end. write down the nationality of the person as accepted, this remark, I would very much like it to be the last.
        1. +3
          28 February 2013 22: 51
          This is because a "Ukrainian" is a state belonging, as "a Russian, all citizens of Ukraine living in Ukraine are Ukrainians, just like in Siberia there are Siberians, in the Urals there are Urals, so to speak, territorial affiliation, but what kind of nation you have is the question to which most Ukrainians answer unequivocally is the Russians.
          1. +2
            28 February 2013 23: 17
            Quote: Setrac
            This is because a "Ukrainian" is a state belonging, as "a Russian, all citizens of Ukraine living in Ukraine are Ukrainians, just like in Siberia there are Siberians, in the Urals there are Urals, so to speak, territorial affiliation, but what kind of nation you have is the question to which most Ukrainians answer unequivocally is the Russians.


            Dear Sergey! hi At the moment, we are discussing not just what you wrote, but much more.

            Excerpt from the rules of VO:

            The site is strictly prohibited:

            a) a mat in any form (open and veiled), swear words; insulting an opponent;
            b) inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, india, Jew UWB Bulbash, Talaponet, chock, khachik, Azer cross-eyed, b, Raska (generally a mention of Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech;
            c) Flood

            further the words "Ukraine", "Ukrainian" officially и legally fixed (which are written concurrently) words, including in international legal acts. I have little concern for the historical prism. I come to the above question from a purely legal position and forum rules. Someone in my comment deliberately made word division nationality. in another comment made intentional reduction, thereby I believe that actions fall under paragraph b) ..........and other similar turns of unnatural speech;

            selected wording. Read carefully the comments and it will be clear to you what I meant.
            1. 0
              1 March 2013 01: 28
              Dear Apollon, I have not violated any rules, you blame yourself from a sore head to a healthy one. I am not inciting interethnic hatred, it is incited by those who, out of 40 million Ukrainian citizens, ethnic Russians, are trying to make ethnic Ukrainians. And now, I - a resident of the Kuban - will also be a "Ukrainian"? And my relatives in Ukraine?
              And for example, to call yourself "xoxlom" is a violation of the site rules?
              But what about the ancient Ukrainians?
              The site considers this word "xoxol" as a curse to refer to immigrants from Ukraine, it was necessary to change the language layout. Yes, you are completely crazy.
        2. +2
          28 February 2013 23: 57
          For your information, I don’t know which state you are a citizen of, but in Russia, nationality has not been indicated in any official documents for a long time, incl. and in the passport. I think it's right
          1. +1
            1 March 2013 00: 04
            Quote: voronov
            For your information, I don’t know which state you are a citizen of, but in Russia, nationality has not been indicated in any official documents for a long time, incl. and in the passport. I think it's right


            Confucius-nature of people is the same distinguished by their customs.
            it makes no difference to me who on the forum belongs to what nationality and what religion she professes, follow the rules and there will be no complaints against you.
            1. +1
              1 March 2013 00: 13
              Noted soldier
          2. Rus120088
            0
            1 March 2013 17: 45
            As they say in my hometown, they beat me not in my passport, but in the face - A joke, I didn’t want to offend anyone.
            In the Ukrainian passport, there is also no column - nationality.
    6. Avenger711
      +2
      1 March 2013 08: 32
      No, we don’t think so.
      As for culture and language, for God's sake, but why is it that 40 or how many millions of Russians are still left there, including x_o_x_l_o_v in Ukraine, should switch to mov and abandon their Russianness? Create your own state and do whatever you want there, but do not touch Little Russia and New Russia.
      Although I'm afraid the result will be the same.
  10. Polymer
    -3
    28 February 2013 11: 39
    I'm in shock .... I live near the Zaporizhzhya Sich, literally nearby .... no, in fact, everything is stated correctly, well, only three Cossacks were punished, well, they were drinking, (as now by the way) ... they were punished for and they were all blown up to hell, but how can you equate the Cossacks with the Turks for the villagers? the article is written as a spit into my soul personally "... to make fun of the mummers in pseudo Cossack (here, by the way, the author has a grammatical error) clothes by the descendants of swineherds who create all kinds of Cossack troops in present-day Ukraine ..." apparently this segment was written with pleasure and in one breath ... "It makes me feel resentful ...

    Khortytsya is such a spiritual place that everything that is connected with it is accepted on a spiritual level, by the way, the Cossacks hid pagans for many years, whom they called "didi", and they were given several places (I know three for sure and I went there), at the same time, they took revenge for the Orthodox churches of the lyaham, which they burned ... there are versions according to which it was the pagans who were persecuted by the royal troops (I do not believe in this, but it could be so).

    I’m not saying that they are people of high morality, but the fact that they lived in such a place was definitely not scum, that’s for sure ... those who have been to Khortitsa will understand why, the atmosphere does not allow us to think badly about ... drug addicts not there (Cossacks on horseback patrolling), there are no killings (although all the prerequisites are there - a forest, a nature reserve, etc.), well, our litter .. but we can’t talk about such a place and those people who lived there .. ..that it’s definitely not conducive to friendship between nations, I’m not a Russophobe and not a nationalist, but I’m sorry, that is, the article was written to evoke just such emotions on the one hand and gloat on the other ... and how then to make friends with you?

    PS everything worked out for the authors ... probably one wrote "a cheerful start", and the second one, who is more versed in history, a large historical part ... the beginning evokes emotions and dry facts reinforce them ... bravo gentlemen, provocateurs ... you work well ... so to keep and friendship with you will not be for a long time ...
    1. +8
      28 February 2013 13: 19
      Polymer
      Of course, the authors went too far with the swineherds. But it is interesting how you can call the impostors "Cossacks" in Ukraine? In the media of your country we are generally not called. I remember how one expert put it when discussing the construction of the Blue Stream gas pipeline - they say, these alcoholics will not build anything. But that's not the point.
      It seems to me that the majority of Cossacks live on the territory of their troops. The villages have nowhere to go. From the Zaporizhzhya army remained those Cossacks who entered the Kuban. It, too, after all, was not mono-national, the lineers were mostly from Great Russians. Chernomortsy- Little Russians or Ukrainians as you like. In Ukraine, it seems, the Cossacks of the Don Cossack Army. During the bordering of the republics under the communists, part of the territory of the Don Army went to Ukraine. It is in those villages that the Cossacks live in Ukraine. There are no others. This is no offense.
      1. Polymer
        0
        28 February 2013 18: 54
        yes what insults? here they are, but their normal (sober and efficient) units are really one, but they are really seasoned warriors, the rest of the dancers ...

        Cossacks teach children here, which pleases not only sciences and martial arts, but also their life position ... moreover, they are quite adequate ... in any case, they don’t look like demobilization clowns who hang on themselves and go ... look disgusting)
        1. +2
          28 February 2013 21: 46
          Come to us in the Kuban Ukrainian ... Ainets, we’ll dance toby bullied angry
          1. Polymer
            -1
            1 March 2013 23: 39
            No, thank you, I’d better look at Valencia ... although you say the same beautifully .... in my own way ....
            1. 0
              2 March 2013 08: 39
              Polymer "No, thank you, I'd rather see Valencia ... although you say the same beautifully .... in your own way ..."
              You will definitely not surprise anyone here. Hehe ..
    2. mentalowl
      0
      18 March 2015 18: 26
      Dear Polymer, first try to put your thoughts and formulations on paper and re-read them several times. And by the way, the author has no mistakes in the word "pseudo-Cossack". Study spelling dictionaries
    3. mentalowl
      0
      18 March 2015 18: 35
      Dear Polymer, first try to put your thoughts and formulations on paper and re-read them several times. And by the way, the author has no mistakes in the word "pseudo-Cossack". Study spelling dictionaries
      Quote: mentalowl
      Dear Polymer, first try to put your thoughts and formulations on paper and re-read them several times. And by the way, the author has no mistakes in the word "pseudo-Cossack". Study spelling dictionaries

      Although I do not quite agree with the author. I feel bias and personal attitude.
  11. Nord007hold
    +3
    28 February 2013 11: 40
    The authors are requested to provide links to the materials on the basis of which the article was written (if the source is in paper - name, publisher, year)
    From my own experience, I already realized that you should not eat semi-finished products in the form of various articles without elementary messages to the sources (this is especially true for a story that can be easily interpreted). Often, the study of source materials puts everything in its place.
    1. +4
      28 February 2013 14: 26
      Quote: Nord007hold
      The authors are requested to provide links to the materials on the basis of which the article was written (if the source is in paper - name, publisher, year)
      From my own experience, I already realized that you should not eat semi-finished products in the form of various articles without elementary messages to the sources (this is especially true for a story that can be easily interpreted). Often, the study of source materials puts everything in its place.

      In fact, the authors did not say anything new and extraordinary. Well, maybe they were too emotional in a couple of places. Or to be more precise, they are not tolerant. Well, so far we (thank God) are not Europe.
      As for your requirement for a list of literature with pages - I think you are not welcome. There is a different genre of presentation and communication. If you have not yet been banned in Google - you have the right to check and double-check everything yourself. Not at all complicated. Well, even post your research in the comments. This is welcomed with points :)))) It is unlikely that someone will make an abstract from an article on this site. It is rather a motivation to study the issue. Interesting - look and find, but no - there are a lot of other interesting branches. IMHO.
      1. -1
        28 February 2013 16: 21
        ikrut,
        However, the presence of a "bibliography", even without rechecking, already causes more confidence in the material)))
    2. stroporez
      -3
      28 February 2013 20: 34
      I support --- let them prove shaw not in stoned delirium it all turned out to be
  12. +4
    28 February 2013 12: 13
    Put the article plus mercilessly.
    Correctly, the author noticed the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks were not Ukrainians, that’s the laughing matter. Someone in the Sich was not there, they accepted all the Orthodox and withstood the test.
    I myself have Siberian Cossacks with my grandfather and great-grandfather, but the great-great-grandfather of the Kuban.
    And none of them considered himself a Ukrainian, Cossack and Basta.
    Ukry and Cossacks is certainly nonsense.
    1. +4
      28 February 2013 12: 47
      Quote: GOLUBENKO
      Ukry and Cossacks is certainly nonsense.

      I do not agree! Ukry is nonsense, but the Cossacks - no!
      1. +2
        28 February 2013 18: 35
        Quote: Egoza

        I do not agree! Ukry is nonsense, but the Cossacks - no!

        And it seems to me that you and Golubenko do not contradict each other. I apologize for interfering.
    2. +5
      28 February 2013 21: 54
      As far back as we can remember, the Kuban Cossacks never considered themselves Ukrainians, we know our history that we are the descendants of the Black Sea (Zaporozhye) Cossacks and our speech is not Ukrainian MOV, as especially "advanced" ukry are trying to prove now, but the Kuban balachka laughing
    3. Rus120088
      0
      1 March 2013 17: 56
      Golubenko, so what kind of Kuban are you? Judging by the end in your last name, your grandfather comes from central Ukraine, most likely from the Poltava or Kiev region now.
    4. stroporez
      0
      5 March 2013 15: 11
      it would be interesting to listen as if the Cossacks met with the current Bandera wassat I think not a weak mahach would happen))))))))))
  13. +2
    28 February 2013 12: 16
    The Cossacks, remaining loyal to the Russian Empire, created the current Kuban Cossacks


    Well, not really like that. And six brigades of the right flank of the linear Cossacks why attach? And this is more than one third of the total number of newly formed CCE
    1. Kubanets
      +1
      28 February 2013 15: 14
      rexby63
      Well, 6 brigades are you getting excited. If 12800 faithful Cossacks came to the Kuban with Chepiga and Golovaty (archive of the Troop Administration), then the lineers who settled the villages along the eastern border of the region were represented by Cossacks from 4 Don regiments (Khopersky, Pozdeeva, Lukovkin, Koshkin). order of General Gudovich. And further colonization of the region occurred due to the voluntary resettlement of residents of the Poltava Chernigov Yekaterinoslav provinces in several stages.
      1. xan
        +2
        1 March 2013 02: 37
        Kubanets,
        The last uprising of the Don Cossacks against government decrees is connected precisely with the reluctance of those allocated for resettlement to the Kuban to fulfill this decree. It was energetically crushed by government, including Cossack, troops. Someone was even executed. Don Cossack families were resettled in the Kuban.
        Rather, not rebellion, but rebellion.
        1. Kubanets
          +1
          1 March 2013 14: 00
          Belogorokhov raised the above regiments into disobedience. Yes, there was a booze, but the riot does not pull. The result, as Gudovich commanded, and so it turned out And to make a new "peasant" war out of this episode is not worth it. And as for the executed, I dare to assure you: "They were beaten with whips with their nostrils and sent to Nerchinsk"
    2. +3
      28 February 2013 22: 09
      It was the Black Sea people (Cossacks of the Black Sea Cossack army) who made up the backbone of the KKV, of which the vast majority were, drive through the Kuban villages where they still speak the Kuban balachka. Elements of mountain clothes, the burka, Cherkessk, Kubanka, etc. . adopted by the Black Sea from the highlanders of the North Caucasus. In the form of the KKV there were no elements of the Don and other Cossack troops
  14. +5
    28 February 2013 12: 20
    In vain in Ukraine they "cut" for the Sich. Where is the Sich-and where is Little Russia !!!!
    In its core, Cossacks are neither Russian, much less Ukrainian. And blaming Catherine for the elimination of Sich is a delirium tremens.
    The Russian crown always had a utilitarian attitude towards the Cossacks, as well as to any small people, they were needed, in mercy, they became an obstacle to the further development of the state, they spoke. Well, who would suffer in their internal region a lazy, armed, skillful military association? Warrior idle - demoralization, turmoil, threat. The Don Cossacks later learned the same thing.

    Quote: Yoshkin Cat
    for anyone who considers himself a Ukrainian (ethnic) a priori is a Russophobe,

    The site is read in Ukraine. Why so! You yourself produce these phobes.
    1. +3
      28 February 2013 12: 54
      Quote: Chen
      And blaming Catherine for the elimination of Sich is a delirium tremens.

      Watching how to interpret. While the Cossacks were an outpost and fought in the Crimea, and fought valiantly, they really were needed. But after the conquest of Crimea - why the border part in the middle of the country? Naturally, it was abolished by endowing the Cossacks with lands, and throwing them to another line. However, not destroyed! Here is an example from the letter of T.G. Shevchenko (who lived much later than Catherine)
      DO Y. G. KUKHARENKA - http://litopys.org.ua/shevchenko/shev603.htm
      22 quarter 1857. Novopetrovske ukrіplennya
      Christ is Risen! Old Man Otaman Koshovy!
      .... each come іz Gur'єva mail and bring me the lists іz of Peter himself. One write young Kozak Markovich with partnership And after the mens, the trochies are groshed for repair. Write, scho young partnership in the capital zolotogo mene zrobil.
      Another sheet from the capitalfrom Petersburg) Write me Kurinny Lazarevsky ....
      How to give the Lord mercy, I’ll come on Sich,......
      Sending men іz Pіter kurinny Panko Kulish a book of his own robots, entitled "Notes on Southern Russia",
      April 22.
      1857.
      Novopetrovsk fortification.
      xxxxxxxxxx
      As you can see, many Cossacks settled well in St. Petersburg itself. (1) Well and (2) Where T.G. was going to go Shevchenko, if the chop was destroyed?
      1. +2
        28 February 2013 16: 17
        Sich is the most "extreme" (just kidding) - extremist part of the Cossacks. By and large, these brethren are free fighters of fortune. And Katya, as a woman in all respects, wise and resolute, directed the strength and skill of the Cossacks in the right direction!
  15. boris61bo
    0
    28 February 2013 12: 24
    The eternal question is who is right?
  16. +4
    28 February 2013 12: 57
    And I am personally offended by the fact that using history, children are trying to impose "European values" !!!!
    Here http://doshkolenok.kiev.ua/skazki-legendy/459-virshi-pro-ukrainu.html
    (Pay attention - the site is a preschool !!!!)

    PID RIDNIM PRAPOROM
    Become Prap Prapor Sign-Zhovtiy -
    The flag of the prabatkiv
    Touch the gilding
    Zaporozky goats,

    Touch the blue
    Patriot-warriors.

    Become a Prap Prapor
    The middle of the proud youth.
    XXXX
    This is what kind of "blueness" hang on the Cossacks? AND THIS offer to be proud of? !!!!! am
  17. +4
    28 February 2013 12: 58
    almost all the peoples of Eastern Europe, up to the baptized Tatars.


    Of course it is. The main thing for the Cossacks was Orthodoxy, and not at all a formal ethnicity. Moreover, I will probably dazzle lovers of ancient ukrov, but among the Cossacks there were enough baptized Jews. If you read the surviving archival documents of the Sich, then there are enough names like Cossack Abrashka, Cossack Musiy (that is, Moses), Cossack Itska, Cossack Naumka, etc. And nobody else cared.
  18. Cherkas
    -4
    28 February 2013 13: 06
    Something I do not understand a little) Russians have always called Ukrainians x0khly, and those of them, in turn, were DACs with "ka" because of their beards. There is a picture "Cossacks are writing a letter to the Turkish Sultan" - it is clear that it was not real Cossacks who posed, but the actors who portrayed them ... but nevertheless, almost everyone has this forelock, so the Cossacks are still Ukrainians?) I mean Zaporozhye, and then, judging by history, the Kubans were also Ukrainians as they came from the Black Sea. It is also known from history that the Cossacks vehemently hated the Tsaps with "KA" (Russians), who called them forelocks and there were often clashes between them, and in the comments people write that the Cossacks are a mixture of different people of different nationalities, it may be more accurate to say that were they mostly Ukrainians and there were also foreigners among them? And to be honest, I am a little perplexed how people with the Ukrainian flag are not offended here, that their story, to put it mildly, is being told incorrectly and that they are still sure of their Moscow origin ...)
    1. Kubanets
      +4
      28 February 2013 15: 46
      It was Repin who painted a picture from the real Cossacks of the village of Pashkovskaya near Yekaterinodar. There were also suitable types in the Kuban in 1880-1891. The exception is the central faces of the canvas: esaul, clerk, Bulba, koshevoy Serko were written from friends and acquaintances of the artist. There is an opinion that Serko was written from General Dragomirov.
    2. +1
      28 February 2013 22: 17
      Not a single Kuban Cossack including and I never considered myself Ukrainians, and our speech, still preserved in the villages of the Kuban, is not a Ukrainian mov, but a Kuban balachka.
      1. Mefodiy
        +1
        1 March 2013 11: 15
        The Kuban balochka is the dialect of the old, good Ukrainian language.
        By the way, all my roots are from the Poltava region (Kremenchug, Globinsky, Sanzharsky districts), so on "Odnoklassniki" in the group of "my namesakes" there are many people from the Kuban hi
        1. Kubanets
          0
          1 March 2013 13: 54
          Mefodiy,
          You forgot one thing. There were no surnames in the Kuban until 1865. The Imperial Decree (Alexander2) prohibits the KKV Cossacks from calling themselves by nicknames and being named at their choice by the "Acceptable name"
          1. +1
            1 March 2013 18: 06
            Lubo Brother !!! drinks
          2. Mefodiy
            -2
            1 March 2013 22: 03
            Well, good, good, convinced ... Tomorrow I will go to change my surname from Doroshenko to Doroshenkov .. / Lyashko to Lyashkov .... I will leave the group "Same Surnames" ... If some GAD suddenly calls me (asks) in "rural dialect "I will send it in" three letters "in response ... ?????????????????
        2. +1
          1 March 2013 18: 05
          In the time of Zaporizhzhya and later Kuban Cossacks there was no such thing as Ukraine and the Ukrainian language
  19. +7
    28 February 2013 13: 08
    I also want to add something about the flag
    The yellow-blue flag first appeared in 1848 in Lviv on the territory of the Austrian Empire, when at the height of the revolution the imperial government created Golovna Ruska Rada in Galicia. This first Ruthenian political organization provided the Habsburgs with much-needed help against the Poles and Hungarians. The Austrian governor solemnly handed the new banner to the "Russian Galicians".
    However, the Austrian Galician flag is not yet Ukrainian. By XX, the Ukrainian national flag did not yet exist. Only in 1911 did a discussion unfold on this subject. The famous Ukrainian historian I. Kripyakevich proposed to consider red as the national color - the color of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks. The Cossacks had banners of various shades of red: Severin Nalyvayko fought under the red flag, and the hetmans Khmelnitsky and Doroshenko fought under the raspberry. In response, historian S. Tomashivsky proposed a Galician combination of yellow and blue, citing, in particular, that red means working solidarity.
    When, at the beginning of 1918, the Central Council, recognizing its political and military defeat, invited the German troops, the need arose to maintain its own authority as a sovereign government. The IV Universal about independence of the Ukrainian people's republic was hastily adopted in haste and the state flag - yellow-blue - was approved.
    After the conquest of Ukraine, the Germans threw off the Central Rada just for its exceptional concern for its own authority. For their purposes, the Germans reanimated the post of hetman, on which General Pavel Skoropadsky, the great-great-grandson of the hetman’s brother Ivan Skoropadsky, was placed. It was he who “turned” the colors of the flag. But why? Historians say: in order to more easily explain to the people their meaning: above blue is the color of the sky, below yellow is the color of wheat. But the Central Council, too, did not explain them by their Galician origin, but the gold above is the color of the domes, and the blue below is the color of the Dnieper. The riddle! Maybe Skoropadsky hinted at a flag coup for a political coup?
    Whatever the case, it was in this form that the flag remained after the next coup and the establishment of the Petliura Directory.
    http://istorya.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=3583
    xxxxx
    Why shouldn't those who so fiercely uphold the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks fight for the adoption of their true flag - RED as the state? fellow
  20. Leshiy69
    +1
    28 February 2013 13: 17
    not an article, but a sex ... the ataman Kalnyshevsky was twice forced to flee Sich and crush the uprisings with the help of regular Russian troops that’s why the author didn’t tell further how the given ataman finished his days? Doesn't fit in the article? Such nonsense can only be written by a sick person, dragged away by an inferiority complex ....
    1. stroporez
      0
      5 March 2013 15: 23
      Well, read for another "leader" Ivan Vyhovsky .. Nicho himself the Ukrainian hetman --- paid the mercenaries giving the Ukrainian cities to them for plunder. well, but from the Muscovites he fought ---- meaning quite Svidomo by today's standards .............
  21. Sashko07
    +1
    28 February 2013 13: 28
    For a long time on the Internet, I was looking for a site where I will more or less plausibly work out various materials, especially as for us Slavs, because there are a lot of American sites and there are almost no normal ones, when I went to "Military Review" I was very surprised that there are still normal sites. But over time, after reading some articles about Ukrainians, I realized that another corrupt one, but unlike the others, Ukrainians are humiliated not by American but by Russians.
    For "historians" - I live in the city of Chernigov, the city is 1300 years old, some archaeologists say that it is even more than Kiev, that is, somewhere 1700-1800, I sit reading the next propaganda and I can not understand if we are Ukrainians with little growth, and the outskirts, then how in the city of Chernigov in which almost 1500 thousand years ago there was a semblance of statehood and the city that held the territory from the Crimea to the Baltic Sea, can swineherds live? At that time there was not yet a single "Russian" city, and now I am a resident of one of the oldest cities called a swineherd and a little Russian. Dear Russian so-called brothers - you got out of your birch trees when on the territory of present-day Ukraine there was already a strong state of which the then Europe was afraid, please do not forget about this when you write another vyser towards Ukraine.
    1. +8
      28 February 2013 14: 51
      Quote: Sashko07
      Dear Russian so-called brothers, you left your birches when the territory of present-day Ukraine already had the strongest state that Europe at that time was afraid of, please do not forget about this when you write another vyser towards Ukraine.

      So what??? Does it help you feel taller, cleaner, better and more educated? Do you consider your origin terribly ancient and very noble?
      And at the same time to speak so tongue-tied and with a lot of mistakes in the banal spelling? What is the reason for this "pride"?
      Are you very happy with the "fact" that once upon a time, someone may have been afraid of those who, perhaps, lived where you live now? And if today someone doubts these illusory retrospectives so pleasing to you - do you assess this as "vyser" towards a certain territorial entity?
      The fact that Chernigov could "hold" the territories even from the English Channel to the Bering Strait in no way makes me, or you, or anyone else smarter, stronger or better in any sense.
      If your ancestors personally did not raise pigs, but were exclusively princes and horsemen - do not take "pig pasture" at your own expense. It's simple :))) And in general - "they carry water to the offended." why do you need it? :))) IMHO.
      1. xan
        +2
        28 February 2013 15: 09
        ikrut,
        plus 100500
        I wanted to write something in this spirit, but already inappropriately
        thanks for saving me time
        and I’d like to add to this Sasha, once Hungary was afraid of all of Europe
        1. +2
          28 February 2013 22: 25
          And then the Mongols, and where now who? laughing
      2. Sashko07
        -1
        28 February 2013 15: 44
        No one has ever put himself higher than himself, he put the others above himself (I mean Hitler), everyone knows how it ended for him and his people, the essence of my post is not that. Such articles are just enraging, where the inhabitants of Ukraine are constantly put on a par with some kind of hollowers or cave dwellers, they say that here we have Great Russia and you all (Ukrainian, Belorussian, Kazakh and the rest a piece of gray yourself know what), and you wouldn’t have been Russian for a long time , there wouldn’t be just you - Russians, without us, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Kazakhs, and even the same Georgians. You will never accept this simple truth, but you will pretend to be your elder brother whom you have never been.
        Right now, the author of the article took and, to put it mildly, crap Cossacks, Cossack warriors from the mention of which in those days the hordes of Tatars poured boiling water and the Polish people shouted "curvaceous uterus" and turned their armies back because it was better not to meet the Cossacks in battle at that time, this is Is it okay for you to distort the story?
        As for spelling, I’ll say - guys, what do you think I’ll have spelling if I wrote in Ukrainian all my school life and thought in Russian because at one time some people cut out all Ukrainian intelligentsia because of which everyone now speaks Russian and not in your native language?
        Guys are fighting, Americans are spreading a little against us, so we are still fighting with each other.
        1. +2
          28 February 2013 16: 21
          All the same, I will express myself. I could not restrain myself))) You read exactly what you read. And you understand exactly how you want to understand. And nothing more. I’ve evaluated a completely different presentation in this article. And I don’t think what follows from this article, that Ukrainians (ukry, Cossacks) are equated with swineherds ... You just got caught on a word but did not understand the essence. This is not your mistake, just now there is no normal story, everyone is promoting at the expense of it, they are asking for preferences for themselves, they prove kinship with almost failures. This is from lack of culture and ignorance ... And this gap is oh how we all: the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, the Belorussian SSR, the Uzbek SSR, the Kazakh SSR, the Georgian SSR, the Azerbaijan SSR, the Lithuanian SSR, the Moldavian SSR, the Latvian SSR, the Kyrgyz SSR, the Tajik SSR , Armenian SSR, Turkmen SSR, Estonian SSR - oh, how it goes around ... Yes, it goes around already ...
          1. stroporez
            0
            28 February 2013 20: 47
            right words ............................
        2. +3
          28 February 2013 16: 51
          Quote: Sashko07
          what do you think I’ll have spelling if I wrote in Ukrainian all my school life and thought in Russian because at one time some people cut out all Ukrainian intelligentsia because of which everyone now speaks Russian and not in their native language?

          Kill yourself and not get up! RESPECTED!!!! Yes, it has long been proven that a person's native language is the one spoken by his mother, which is spoken at his home !!!! You never understood that you were pushed into a Ukrainian school and forcibly taught in a foreign language, giving noodles about the "unfortunate Ukrainian intelligentsia" !!! All this intelligentsia, represented by Yavorivsky, Pavlichko and many others, is sitting in the Verkhovna Rada and various "public organizations" sponsored from the USA and Canada, and barks at the Soviet regime, although under the Ukrainian SSR they praised it in a race !!!! Give an example of an "unfortunate intellectual who was cut out" !!!!
          And people want to speak their native language and teach children in their native Russian language, so that they are LITERATE and have good knowledge in other subjects. For knowledge is well acquired ONLY IN THE NATIVE LANGUAGE! You still did not understand that this territory is Kievan Rus! And here Russian people lived and live!
          1. +1
            28 February 2013 17: 03
            Really sad ...
          2. Sashko07
            -2
            28 February 2013 22: 47
            I do not bark at the Soviet power, the USSR is the best that was in our joint history, but I \\\\\, my native language is Ukrainian, and the fact that you do not like Russian to me I deeply fuck.)))
        3. +4
          28 February 2013 18: 26
          Quote: Sashko07
          As for spelling, I’ll say - guys, what do you think I’ll have spelling if I wrote in Ukrainian all my school life and thought in Russian because at one time some people cut out all Ukrainian intelligentsia because of which everyone now speaks Russian and not in your native language?

          It's not for me to judge you, I can only regret you as a victim of the "orange propaganda". I'm sorry, but the brains of your generation have been fatally corrected. What can I say, advise. Learn, read more, think, analyze.
          1. Sashko07
            -1
            28 February 2013 19: 19
            I am 30 nickname soon, and I studied in the textbooks of the USSR laughing Your problem is that when you say "Ukrainian" or someone else starts talking about the history of Ukraine, you immediately associate with Yushchenko. Yusch, of course, is an American louse, but we knew without him what the Holodomor was or what the Kruty station was.

            Who does not know this place where 400 unprepared "maloros" and swineherds stopped the red guard of about 6000 thousand people. Now think what Cossacks were (real, not Kuban), that their descendants through the centuries could not trained and poorly armed to fight like this)))
            1. xan
              +3
              28 February 2013 20: 16
              Sashko07,
              About Kruty, complete nonsense, no need to retell the legend.
              The Red Guard near Kruty did not stop.
            2. GP
              GP
              +4
              28 February 2013 20: 33
              Quote: Sashko07
              Cool.

              Who does not know this place where 400 unprepared "maloros" and swineherds stopped the red guard of about 6000 thousand people. Now think what Cossacks were (real, not Kuban), that their descendants through the centuries could not trained and poorly armed to fight like this)))


              Are these cool?
              "... On January 27, Yegorov's Red Guard detachment (this is about 3600 fired soldiers), moving in an echelon to Kiev, near the Kruty station was forced stop due to disassembled tracks, and then suddenly came under machine-gun fire. The shootout has begun. By evening, the Bolsheviks seized the station, forcing the “Krut heroes” to flee to the train on which they arrived. In a hurry, the commander of the “Sychovykiv” was thrown to the mercy of fate a hundred Kiev gymnasium students, who before the campaign on Kruty knew about the war only from history textbooks. As a result, they were captured.
              That was such an "epic battle", which I would still call more simply - a shootout at the Kruty station ... "
              Mda-aa, and then
              Quote: Sashko07
              Now think about what the Cossacks were (real, not Kuban), that their descendants through the centuries could have been uneducated and weakly armed so to fight)))

              fool
              1. Sashko07
                -5
                28 February 2013 22: 40
                Yes, a shootout, but for some reason, during this shootout, several thousand trained Red Army soldiers grew up a little when 18-year-old students began to mow them with machine guns.
                It’s probably cool to sit under a computer with a can of beer and change the history of a foreign country in your own way.
                1. Kubanets
                  +4
                  28 February 2013 23: 16
                  I will not say about the Red Guard in a battle under unknown to me Kruty and about the Kuban Cossacks I will tell you that, unlike the heroic warriors and serdyuks, a little earlier in 1914, under Sarykamysh, two regiments under the leadership of Yudenich were repelled and, with the approach of reserves, they overthrew and drove the 3rd Turkish army to Erzurum
                2. GP
                  GP
                  +4
                  1 March 2013 02: 05
                  Quote: Sashko07
                  Yes, a shootout, but for some reason, during this shootout, several thousand trained Red Army soldiers grew up a little when 18-year-old students began to mow them with machine guns.


                  A common ambush. Moreover, it is not clear the reason for the pride when the men "made their legs" by throwing the "heroic" cadets, who, in fact, were captured. At the same time, the Bolsheviks did not put them all against the wall, took revenge for each dead soldier, slapped the rest and sent them to catch up with the nimble headquarters with the escaped "heroes". We fixed the rails and drove on.

                  Quote: Sashko07
                  It’s probably cool to sit under a computer with a can of beer and change the history of a foreign country in your own way.

                  Indeed, after protoucres even grass does not grow. No doubt about it.
                3. stroporez
                  0
                  5 March 2013 15: 30
                  Yes, and you are not starving in the trenches .........
            3. 0
              28 February 2013 22: 32
              You sit behind the Kerch Strait and allow you to speak abusively regarding the Kuban Cossacks, come to our Kuban and say it here
            4. +2
              1 March 2013 19: 53
              Quote: Sashko07
              Who does not know this place where 400 unprepared "maloros" and swineherds stopped the red guard of about 6000 thousand people.

              God, how everything is neglected !!! The result of education reforms in Bandera's way is obvious. The brain is "stitched". It would be funny if it were not so sad ... sad
    2. +4
      28 February 2013 18: 16
      Quote: Sashko07
      you came out of your birches when in the territory of present-day Ukraine there was already the strongest state which Europe then feared


      This is what you gave ...! Is this news from the new textbooks on the history of Ukraine that Yushchenko approved? Who was afraid of Ukraine if it simply did not exist then? And who, then, did the Crimean "frightened" Tatars, Pechenegs, Polovtsians and other steppe dwellers fight?
      1. Sashko07
        -2
        28 February 2013 23: 05
        I didn’t see any new textbooks, the newest one I studied in was 94 years old, but in general I began to take an interest in history in the 90th year when I read a book about the pilot Maresyev by a 6-year-old boy.

        About whom my ancestors fought and did not tear, the old history teacher told me in 96, who crawled on expeditions in his young years all of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, and who didn’t give a damn about the nationalists and the rest, and not very, trash. He told us directly - that we are the very first who created this very Russia, and what it is now, Russian or someone else’s it is not important anymore, it’s important that we are its founders, so don’t forget who you all went from laughing
        1. xan
          +3
          1 March 2013 02: 51
          Quote: Sashko07
          He told us directly - that we are the very first who created this very Russia, and what it is now, Russian or someone else’s it is not important anymore, it’s important that we are its founders, so don’t forget from whom you all went laughing


          And Veliky Novgorod, Staraya Ladoga, the Vladimir-Suzdal principality - are you Ukrainians too?
          Especially for you, I’m adding a 30-year-old - it’s important not that someone was somewhere, did something there or just stood nearby, it is important who and what achieved the result. The most serious result in the entire Slavic world was achieved by Russians led by Moscow.
    3. +1
      28 February 2013 22: 22
      And it turns out ukry pyramids were built and the first to fly into space wassat
      1. Sashko07
        -1
        28 February 2013 22: 36
        Nubasik and rocket "Satan" where do you think it was? wink In Samara, and not in Chelyabinsk, although the weather, most likely in Kamchatka, was in Kamchatka, and the Yuzhny Design Bureau, only a couple of screws were screwed laughing
  22. 0
    28 February 2013 13: 37
    Quote: Sirozha
    Your brains are powdered as if we are sleeping and see mosk_lei hanging on birches - that’s all rubbish!


    Countryman, have you ever seen performances such as Farion? But she is far from alone. So the Russians have every reason to believe that Ukraine has developed hostile sentiments in Russia
  23. vvn
    vvn
    +3
    28 February 2013 13: 52
    The article is crude. The writers picked up on the little things and decided to publish their opus. Historical facts are practically zero. Saying about swineherds does not look right. Regarding the revival of the Cossacks)))) Well, there was such a national idea, maybe they tried to rally the people around it. It turned out as always, they themselves pushed orders and regalia .... but it’s not clear why interfere there? Or an insult that did not give the rank?))) A joke. Article minus.
  24. vovka
    +3
    28 February 2013 14: 14
    It is extremely unlikely that any of the commentators is a historian and dealt with the problem of relations between Ukraine and Russia (I heard something, where I read it, etc. ...) I think that provocateurs throw such information in order to split the minds of fraternal peoples , for the sake of momentary conjuncture. For hundreds of years we have been together and fate is so destined. Based on the foregoing, I propose not to comment on such articles, let the Americans and Europeans be nervous.
  25. +6
    28 February 2013 14: 23
    When they write "something" about Russia and its history, the Russians don't like "they say vyser, nonsense, propaganda ...". When they write about Ukraine, Ukrainians (Malorosians, Ukrainians, Cossacks) do not like "vyser, nonsense, propaganda ..." You understand what I mean. I will not go into details, because it is pointless.
    For example, to comrade Sashko07, if the article said that Chernigov and its environs are the cradle of ALL modern civilization, I would probably like it but I do not, because it is biased. And this article can not be objective and no other. For objectivity is an ephemeral and practically unattainable concept, but one definitely needs to strive for it ...
    I was once taught that in order to build a judgment or inference on any historical question, it is necessary to cultivate a very large mountain of sources and documents, and the more of them the more objective the judgment is that all friends are objective.
    But now history is politics and propaganda, there is nothing left of science, how sad it is ... Quit? Do not write articles that obviously see the holivar wassat
    I read the article in the morning, I will not express an opinion laughing there are healthy grains and nonsense (and it cannot be otherwise). Specially waiting for what will happen in the comments.
    I just want to turn to individual comrades, they themselves will understand to whom exactly.
    Do not judge one-sidedly, try to look critically, for a history textbook passed at school once upon a time is not a history education. I now read articles and works that are unpleasant to me (due to political aspects), but it helps to look from another bell tower. Lets think. So you take a look, think, and do not scribble in the comment "vyser, nonsense, and so on" ...
    All I had to say was to say. Thank you for the attention. hi
  26. +8
    28 February 2013 14: 36
    I can’t understand what this is about, well, no one says that after the Great Patriotic War, all partisan detachments were disbanded (Kovpak Sidor Artemyevich, for example, by the way from the village of Kotelva, Poltava region). And about Sich squealing. This was not a state, but a formation, and it was disbanded as unnecessary and because of the danger of armed robbery (where there is a weapon and a burner, there is close lawlessness). fool
    1. +3
      28 February 2013 20: 29
      Val_Y "And they scream about the Sich. Sich was not a state, but a formation, so they disbanded as unnecessary"
      In something, I agree with you, at this point. Under Nicholas 1, the Surgut, Birch, and other city Cossacks were transferred from the Cossack estate to the middle class. As unnecessary due to the fact that the local Finno-Ugric tribes of the Khanty and Mansi ceased to pose a threat to the Russian authorities. The Bashkirs were also earlier close to the Cossack estate and under Nicholas 1 they were deprived of benefits and were not called up for service. I don’t remember exactly, but closer to the 50s of the 19th century.
  27. +2
    28 February 2013 15: 06
    By the way, I don't see anything bad in the word "Ukrainian" (Okrainets) either. Think about it! Okraintsy - those who lived on the very edge of the village, city, principality. In fact, they are border guards! They were the first to notice the enemy, they sent messages to warn others, they fought to the death so that in the same city-village people could prepare for defense. The weaklings did not survive there. And in the annals, practically every principality has its own ukraine. Another thing is that since antiquity, everyone wanted to attach this very "ukraine" to themselves, so that there would be more land. The current geographic position of Ukraine is the most marginal, either for Russia or for Europe. And in order to become a no less independent state, there was no need to change the system, but to destroy the economy!
    1. Good man
      -4
      28 February 2013 17: 08
      Quote: Egoza
      By the way, I don't see anything bad in the word "Ukrainian" (Okrainets) either. Think about it! Okraintsy - those who lived at the very edge of the village, city, principality .... The current geographical position of Ukraine - whatever is the most marginal, both for Russia and for Europe.

      For me personally, these of your Europe and Russia are the distant outskirts of Kiev laughing
      Quote: Egoza
      And in order to become a more or less independent state, there was no need to change the system

      What system still? slaveholding? laughing
  28. Sich
    -2
    28 February 2013 15: 33
    Let's remember that right up to the very Voronezh province - Ukrainians Little Russians can be called anything, that's not the point, who moved in the 16-17th centuries, and set up fortresses there and many of them were Zaporozhye Cossacks, so now most of them immigrants from Chernihiv, Poltava, Kiev and other areas.
    A Zaporizhzhya slash in the 16-17th century. who didn’t know who fought against one of the most powerful armies at that time - Turkish, and very successfully. Thanks to them, the Turks did not go to Western Europe. It was a real army-state, where there was real democracy.
    1. Cherkas
      -1
      28 February 2013 16: 54
      Well, this is similar to what is mentioned in the chronicles and folk art of Ukrainians ... there is still a book History of the Ruses - everything is interesting there and the book itself is of great interest for study ...
    2. xan
      +1
      28 February 2013 20: 23
      Quote: Sich
      Thanks to them, the Turks did not go to Western Europe.

      This is megalomania and ignorance of history.
      And about the fact that the Cossacks did something positive, I always recall Sagaidachny, your national hero, who cut out entire Russian cities in Polish and probably in Zaporizhzhya interests
    3. +1
      1 March 2013 09: 11
      sechevoy "Let's remember that right up to the Voronezh province"
      Let's remember !!! About Sloboda Ukraine, which included the current Chernihiv, Kharkov and Sumy regions. Or do not remember? Hehe ... From the 15th to the early 16th centuries, they were recaptured in a series of wars by the Russian state, from Vel Prince. Lithuanian.
      1. +3
        1 March 2013 10: 43
        Quote: Nagaibak
        Let's remember !!!
        Not certainly in that way. Sloboda Ukraine - Kharkov region. Sumy region was first formed before the Great Patriotic War from parts of Kharkov (in this sense, it is also like Slobozhanshchina), KURSK and Chernihiv. (Chernihiv was conquered by Muscovite Rus from Lithuanian back in 1500). After the Time of Troubles, according to the results of the Deulinsky truce, it temporarily ceded to Poland. Then, after the defeat of the Poles, at the request of Khmelnitsky, she remained in hetman's subordination. Slobozhanshchina - Russian undistributed land between the nobility in central Russia and the Cossack, in this case, the Don. In this sense, Pavel formed Sloboda Ukraine already in the Saratov province. Slobozhanschina is the Horde land before Russia, they never belonged either to Lithuania or Poland. When the Poles, Turks and Tatars decided to leave the right bank in vain and staged genocide there, refugees from there allowed Russia to settle in their free lands for now. In the Slobozhanshchina, 12 Cossack regiments were formed, which extinguished all turmoil in the hetmash. Lugank and Yuzovka (Donetsk) are already the Cossack lands of the Don Army.
        1. 0
          1 March 2013 20: 19
          Nikolay S. "Not quite so. Sloboda Ukraine - Kharkov region. Sumy region was first formed before the Great Patriotic War from parts of Kharkov (in this sense, it is also like Slobozhanshchina)"
          That is, the territorially present Sumy was a part of Slobodskaya? So, in general, am I right?
          Thanks for the detailed answer.
  29. Stalinets
    -8
    28 February 2013 16: 39
    I am wildly sorry, but to call Catherine 11 great, just beyond this place, you can not read it.
    1. djon3volta
      +1
      28 February 2013 18: 20
      how can a Stalinist with the American flag be?
      1. Stalinets
        0
        1 March 2013 03: 42
        A Stalinist is a state of mind, but where do you go ......
    2. +1
      28 February 2013 19: 36
      Nobody talked about Catherine 11, are not familiar .... we didn’t have a third!
      1. Stalinets
        0
        1 March 2013 03: 44
        "great queen?" -It's about you, or what?
    3. xan
      +2
      28 February 2013 20: 26
      Quote: Stalinist
      I am wildly sorry, but to call Catherine 11 great, just beyond this place, you can not read it.


      You didn’t say anything about Catherine and this article, but you said everything about yourself.
      1. Stalinets
        -1
        1 March 2013 03: 42
        I can about you too.
    4. 0
      2 March 2013 08: 41
      Stalinist "but call Catherine 11"
      Sounds great- Catherine the eleventh !!!
  30. Sich
    -9
    28 February 2013 16: 58
    Not Catherine, not Peter - these are great traitors to Slavic culture.
  31. +3
    28 February 2013 17: 12
    Interesno, if the Cossacks were little better for the peasants than the Turks and Tatars, why so many "thoughts" have survived in folk folklore? And it is about the Cossacks, as valiant warriors and defenders of the Orthodox faith. Even thoughts about the Tatars have not survived, is it strange? interesno ... And the fact that after the destruction of the Sich Zaporozhye autocracy actually gave carte blanche to the Panamas in relation to their serfs is a fact. The people lost their defender, the Cossack, and the Panamanders from the Zaporozhye (attention, ordinary Jews I do not blame anything!) began to create lawlessness with the peasants. And the official authorities were not interested in this, because from the point of view of the authorities, everything is legal, the gentlemen spread rot slaves. And who to be afraid of? And what, the simple grain growers of Little Russians had to say thank you to the queen for these innovations? They spoke as best they could. Such a "thank you" was Karmelyuk (though later). So was the destruction of the Zaporizhzhya Sich a blessing? controversial. Like the article.
    1. xan
      +2
      28 February 2013 20: 34
      No need to retell legends and folklore, which has nothing with objective reality. Mayhem over the peasants created the Polish and Ukrainian gentry, emerged from the Cossack foreman. And this mess ended with the accession to Russia and the end of the Ruins. According to Russian laws, a peasant could not be killed, unlike Polish ones. In Russian Ukraine there were no peasant uprisings, and the Polish constantly shook.
      1. +1
        28 February 2013 23: 58
        Quote: xan
        In Russian Ukraine there were no peasant uprisings, and the Polish constantly shook.

        Karmelyuk Ustim is a historical fact. Ah, yes, in your opinion, this is not a rebel, but a robber. And why didn’t he sit quietly after finishing the Ruin and joining Russia?
        Quote: xan
        According to Russian law, a peasant could not be killed,

        What, seriously? But to pour Kanchuk so that he dies at home, and not in the pans' yard? It was also impossible under the law? But now there are good laws too, but do they often work?
        Quote: xan
        Mayhem over the peasants created the Polish and Ukrainian gentry

        It is true, because, alas, there was no one to protect the peasant settlement from the gentry. Thank you queen.
        1. xan
          +2
          1 March 2013 03: 01
          revnagan,
          Karmelyuk the robber.
          So why was Polish Ukraine shaking, but not Russian Ukraine?
          Why did the Polish shake cease when it became Russian?
  32. +1
    28 February 2013 17: 38
    "Therefore, when the Black Sea residents turned to Ekaterina with a request to provide them with the vast and unpopulated shores of the Kuban for settlement, the answer was not long in coming."
    This historical fragment is somehow oversimplified, the author does not disclose such a fact as the Cossack brotherhood. The fact is that these lands were unpopulated as a result of the fact that the Don Cossacks in order to end the raids of the Nogais and Highlanders took a campaign against them. By the time indicated in the quote, the Nogais were already crowded out and the Don people suggested that the Cossacks move to these lands. Between the Army of the Don and Zaporizhzhya Sichs there was a long close interaction in campaigns in the Wild Field, against the Turks. A detachment of Zaporizhzhya participated in the seizure by the Don Cossacks of Azov in 1631.
  33. +3
    28 February 2013 18: 26
    Ukrainian zapadentsam for a long time as a whore .. did not fight !!!! A bunch of pi..rasov, neo-Nazi and just duped people !!! And as for the people, I will speak of them as very kind and hospitable people !! It is a pity that the "swamp" has escaped to power !!!
  34. Urrry
    +4
    28 February 2013 18: 39
    An article was conceived with a useful purpose - against Ukrainian nationalists ... but it's just annoying that its writing turned out to be not particularly respectful to the people themselves ... a certain arrogance and hostile arrogance is no longer towards the nationalists themselves - but towards the people of Ukraine itself. And it's a pity - judging by the number of "flags", this site is considered close to themselves by the inhabitants of Ukraine. In general, "plus" for the idea and "minus" for the execution ...
  35. +5
    28 February 2013 19: 21
    The article is excellent.
    And the Ukrainian people are a loose concept! These are Little Russians, and Hutsuls and Russians ... Zaporozhye has nothing to do with Ukrainians.
    Moreover, in the Kuban for a long time, a negative attitude towards "Ukrainians" with a Nazi and various other bias has been preserved.
    History, gentlemen, it was necessary to teach at school. Or read historical books!
    And even then, ADAM and EVA, in their opinion, were Ukrainians.
    1. Polymer
      0
      2 March 2013 00: 52
      Come to Zaporozhye, and they will explain to you who Zaporozhye is related to .... extremely affordable ....
  36. stroporez
    +3
    28 February 2013 20: 59
    the goal of both Russian and Ukrainian leaders ------ to push the peoples as much as possible. and we, damn it, are being conducted .......... so it turns out that both Russians and Ukrainians are worthless than swineherds --- we behave like a herd ............ Mlyn !!!! !!!!!!! ..................
    1. Stalinets
      0
      1 March 2013 03: 40
      Right !! No one thinks!
  37. 0
    28 February 2013 22: 43
    Glory to the Kuban Cossacks, worthy of the descendants of the Black Sea, but not as Ukrainian ... Ain !!! drinks
    1. boots
      0
      3 November 2013 19: 30
      ANYWHERE))))))))))))))
  38. 0
    1 March 2013 00: 24
    The minus article was written by an amateur.
  39. Stalinets
    -1
    1 March 2013 03: 51
    Lovers of Catherine, you at least read on Wikipedia what this nerus did. How great is she ??? What are you!
  40. Cowboy
    +2
    1 March 2013 10: 12
    As a Russian born and raised in Ukraine, I want to call everyone to restraint and mutual respect. Only then can we count on mutual understanding. I want to list a few facts of ideas and observations that are not accessible for understanding to Russian citizens. In the words of Little Russia and swineherd there is nothing offensive if a person did not pronounce them in a derogatory context. But the word swineherd can also determine the state of the soul. Forgive the biography of Count Alexei Grigoryevich Razumovsky - swineherd, Ukrainian Cossack, who became the favorite of Empress Elizabeth Petrovna. I believe that she was the most human of all the novels. I am convinced that the Russians and Ukrainians are not brothers, but this is one people living in different geographical and political circumstances. Ukrainian circumstances formed a special complex (among the Poles, he also has) the protection of rural culture, which in their understanding is only true. I do not share the views of Ukrainians, but I prefer the Westernized and reasonable Ukrainian nationalist to the Russian Westerner and cosmopolitan (in comparison, there are fewer reasonable ones). I strongly advise you to read the thoughts of Hetman Skoropadsky about Ukrainian culture.
    1. Cowboy
      0
      7 March 2013 09: 33
      I thank everyone who sent comments to my post. I regret that they are not available to everyone.
  41. +1
    1 March 2013 12: 28
    The moderator hacked the post with the word "xoxol", it is abusive.
    1. xan
      0
      1 March 2013 23: 46
      Setrac,
      also surprised
  42. 0
    4 March 2013 11: 41
    Guys, well, what are you arguing with and who ?! In the Ukrainian media, on TV now you can hear and see such that the hair stands on end !!! So what now to swear with the receiver or to fill the TV with a muzzle ?! Do you remember Savik Shustrik, a liberal-leading-truth-seeker? You should have seen what kind of understanding-sympathetic face he makes when he listens to long monologues, in the Ukrainian language, by the way, the next fighter for freedom and independence of the Ukrainian people (apparently he receives the translation ahead of time)! Who will you argue with? With a photographer who calmly photographs children in a German helmet in the center of Lviv and with a schmeiser in his hands or in earnest, you will discuss with a person who considers himself exposed to true historical knowledge, broadcasting something like - when our warships plowed the expanses of the oceans you (and naturally) in holes were you sitting ?! Whether someone would like it or not, but Ukraine is actually split in two and proof of the passage to the Rada of such a * tolerant and peace-loving * party as Freedom! This is serious! This is not about the nationality of the Cossacks (what stupidity) to discuss! In general, Ukrainians, Russians, Armenians, Greeks ... who bitterly talk about such a historical incident as the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine - we were presented (this phrase was heard everywhere and in the east of Ukraine and not only) there is something to think about! This is their right, as well as the right of those who consider themselves a separate people, so to speak, independent, independent, to live at their discretion. It’s just to live separately from Russia, but at its expense (by Soviet habit and not only) it is unlikely to succeed. This, in turn, to the fighters for freedom and independence must be firmly understood.
  43. boots
    0
    3 November 2013 19: 34
    God grant that the Cossacks flourish. And I would like Ukraine Ukraine Belarus to unite in one fist ...
  44. mentalowl
    0
    18 March 2015 08: 53
    We did not ask to love Russia.
    Your dislike of us is not a disaster.
    If you do not like Russia,
    Is there a road to x .. gentlemen !?

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