As planned under Stalin

220
As planned under Stalin
An atmospheric photo showing the atmosphere and mood of the early industrialization era: workers marching in formation and with a banner on a construction site. Most likely, this is the Kompressor plant in the Vyborg district of Leningrad.


Sometimes I come across articles in which the authors touch on the Soviet planning system. They would like to note its significance, to emphasize the importance of planning experience. However, their specific knowledge of the subject turns out to be so meager that they are immediately thrown into some kind of abstraction.



Because in the course of my research stories Stalin's industrialization I specifically paid a lot of attention to planning as the least researched topic, then under the influence of such empty articles I decided to write something like a short essay about what was and how the pre-war planning model was used, that is, the 1920s and 1930s, that is, the first three five-year plans. In my opinion, the most effective, in contrast to the post-war models, which have already changed their methodology.

Calculation of tasks for state industry


Planning. For what purpose? You can hear a lot of high-flown nonsense about this, partly rooted in the propaganda of those years. However, we are not interested in phraseology, but in the specific practical purpose of planning.

Planning is the calculation of tasks for state industry, managed by economic people's commissariats. If the compilers of the first five-year plan still sinned by leaning towards a statistical description of the national economy, then in the third five-year plan (not the widely published draft, but the final version, not subject to disclosure) each economic people's commissariat was told what it had to produce and what capital investments it was entitled to.

For example, in 1942, the USSR People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs had to extract 7,1 million tons of coal, 400 thousand tons of oil and process 299 thousand tons of them, harvest 65 million cubic meters of timber and produce 100 thousand tons of paper, manufacture 2,5 thousand metal-cutting machines, and also produce 860 thousand beds so that the still free Soviet citizens could sleep soundly. "Everyone understands everything," L.P. Beria must have said at the People's Commissariat board meeting, presenting the five-year plan assignments to the heads of the main departments.

The NKVD of the USSR is just one example. It was the same for the other people's commissariats: a list of products and their production volumes.

State industry had dominated the Soviet economy since V. I. Lenin declared general nationalization in May 1918. Accordingly, a task arose that Soviet planning solved: managing state industry, in particular, defining its tasks. At first, there was no separate planning; it dissolved in the depths of the huge apparatus of the Supreme Council of the National Economy of the USSR, but after the bureaucratic madness of the "Glavkism" era, it was decided that planning should be in a separate body, separated from economic routine, that is, in the USSR State Planning Committee.


The USSR State Planning Committee, based on various statistics, developed a plan as a system of assignments for economic people's commissariats. The plan was approved by the government or even legislative bodies and, approved, was sent down to the people's commissariats, which themselves then distributed assignments among their main departments, subordinate trusts, and so on, right down to individual enterprises, workshops, and even sections.

Planned will


Here are the methods of calculating tasks - this is already very interesting. For such calculation, a starting level is needed, described in detail by statistical materials: gross, cost indicators, various technical and economic coefficients. Therefore, good statistics are needed for planning.

In principle, it is possible to plan with bad statistics. Moreover, the need for this has arisen periodically. But, firstly, planners have developed special methods for producing some figures from others, such as extrapolation estimates based on sample data. Secondly, in such a situation, it is necessary to understand that planning becomes more orienting than indicating and prescribing, and one must be prepared for surprises from the statistically undescribed part of the economy.

So it is better to plan with detailed statistics. It is more convenient and easier.

How were economic tasks set? One can talk as much as one wants about some objective laws, as was done in old literature, and is often done now. However, setting planning tasks is almost pure voluntarism.

Yes, the core of the plan depends on the will of the planners and the political leadership for whom they work. A plan is worth something when it contains a volitional principle that forces the economy to grow and change qualitatively. The political leadership can move the force of law or repression in support of it, but without will nothing can be done in the plan.

In pre-war times, the USSR State Planning Committee understood this well, and therefore the plans of the first three five-year plans spurred the economy so much that it achieved a lot. The planners of that time also understood that development is far from a smooth and gradual flow of economic life. Development is a man-made crisis, a sharp distortion of all previously existing proportions, an acute conflict, turning out pockets and forced labor. This is the only way to do something that was never possible before, and in the shortest possible time.

In fact, in industrialization, economic management faced two interconnected tasks: how to force people to work more and how to channel as much of the people’s labor as possible into capital investments.

In 1927/28, the gross industrial output was 22,3 billion rubles. The first five-year plan assumed that 47,1 to 54,6 billion rubles would be spent on capital investments over the five-year period, but it turned out to be 52,5 billion. On average, this is half of the production of 1927/28 per year. The second five-year plan spent 137,5 billion rubles on capital investments, or an average of 27,5 billion rubles. The third five-year plan - 192 billion rubles, or 38,4 billion rubles per year.

This is the expression of that planned will that in the 1930s drove the national economy along the path of development.

Personally, I have encountered two methods of determining planned targets. The first is a percentage markup. This is the simplest method, applicable to existing production. A task like "increase production by 10-15-20%" is easily recalculated from the starting level into a planned target for a certain period. The second is a "piecework plan", that is, an assumption to produce a certain number of units of a certain equipment by a certain date. This more complex method was more often used when creating new production facilities, but was often imposed on existing plants as well.

Piecework plan, balances and finances


I have a strong suspicion that the first five-year plan was essentially a "piecework plan" and was calculated based on the production assignment for certain types of equipment: automobiles, tractors, locomotives, wagons, machine tools and other equipment. For example, the production of tractors was supposed to jump from 3 thousand in 1928/29 to 55 thousand in 1931, automobiles - from 840 units to 20 thousand, machine tools - from 1,9 thousand to 18 thousand, and so on.

Then the step-by-step calculation began. To produce cars, tractors, and machine tools, material resources are needed, primarily cast iron and steel. These are all additional resources that the economy does not yet have. The second stage is that to produce these resources needed to solve the plan problem, their own material costs are needed. They are also calculated. Finally, the carrying capacity of the railways is needed to transport all of this, which requires material costs, which, in turn, must be produced. They are also calculated. As a result of these multi-step calculations, in 7-8 or more “turns,” a certain list of material resources is obtained that is needed, but is not provided by the current production.

This is where the construction program comes from, in which this non-existent volume of resources is distributed by type among some supposed factories located throughout the country depending on the availability of the necessary raw materials and fuel. It is estimated how much such a factory might cost, how much and what is needed for construction, and assignments are given to the people's commissariats in the form of title lists.


From the plan to the title lists, and from them to the maps.

The system is complex, and it is easy to make mistakes. Thousands of people were involved in the calculations, and someone could forget something, either accidentally or deliberately. It was in this part of the planning that the most persistent sabotage took place, because it was the disruption of construction and its supply that caused the greatest damage in the least noticeable way.


The sabotage was felt constantly, but Stalin's planners seemed to be only inflamed.

Now the following. Needs and possibilities were reduced using material balances. This is the simplest balance, in which on the left is the income, i.e. the production of some resource, and on the right is the expenditure, i.e. its consumption. Such a balance can be drawn up for a month, quarter, year or five years. For a five-year period, the material balance will be dynamic, because it will need to take into account both the not yet existing, but emerging production and consumption of this resource.

Material balances were used to check the correctness of decisions, and they were also used to develop a plan for the material supply of people's commissariats, known as funding (this plan was approved by the Economic Council under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR).

There were many material balances, dozens and hundreds, and they were interconnected, since production in one was connected with consumption in another. For example, coke was needed to smelt steel, that is, the receipt of steel on the balance required expenditure on the balance of coal.

It was possible to plan based on consumption requests, but the USSR State Planning Committee was not so simple and, understanding that needs could be overstated and illegal trade in resources could be started, it was guided by the coefficients of specific consumption of raw materials, fuel and materials for the production of a unit of output as economically justified needs. This expressed the technical level of industry, since these coefficients were lower in advanced industries, and in general in industry they were gradually adjusted downwards.

Finally, it was necessary to add labor to coal and steel, which was done using a financial balance. In the Soviet system, cost was calculated, as it seems to me, from the price of labor. Each industrial product had its own labor costs, and they were very carefully calculated. The labor of all professions was carefully classified and estimated in rubles according to the tariff scale. Accordingly, the cost of, say, a bolt is the labor of a turner, plus the labor of a metallurgist, plus the labor of a railroad worker, plus the labor of a storekeeper, which determined the cost of a blank, and the same with smaller shares, such as depreciation, energy consumption, tools, various overhead costs. The labor of all people directly or indirectly involved in the creation of a bolt was merged together, then a planned profit was accrued to it, and this very cost was obtained.

In order to avoid making such rather complicated calculations every time, a price list was compiled and approved, which included the cost of all industrial products without exception. This was the price at which the product passed from hand to hand, for example, the People's Commissariat of Ferrous Metals shipped steel to the People's Commissariat of Shipbuilding Industry. The price list rarely changed. Enterprises, trusts and people's commissariats had the opportunity to reduce labor costs for products and thus receive additional profits above the planned ones. The Soviet pricing system was a mirror image of the capitalist system.

According to the price list, all products were recalculated into rubles and kopecks, and this entire impersonal mass was compiled into separate and consolidated financial balances, both current and provisional, that is, expected. A five-year plan in the financial sense is a provisional financial balance for the next five years, taking into account all planned changes.

In the Soviet system, finances controlled labor first and foremost, while material resources went through the funding system. There was no freedom to buy anything for money back then.

Exceeding plans


Control of the plan was not particularly difficult. Gosplan distributed everything among the people's commissariats. The people's commissariats then sent their detailed plans to Gosplan. A stream of various reporting statistics went to the Central Statistical Office under Gosplan of the USSR. It was possible to see whether the plan was being fulfilled by any people's commissariat, industry, trust, enterprise.

Now about the implementation of the plan. The planners of the 1930s, as a rule, with experience of the economic chaos of the Civil War and the early 1920s, understood perfectly well, firstly, that statistics and the plan do not reflect all economic phenomena without exception, and therefore its accuracy has a certain error. Secondly, the plan is based on a volitional principle, and its underfulfillment, as can be judged from a number of publications that reflected this conviction of the planners, is primarily due to insufficient will.

In principle, that's how it is. If your company can't make a plan that is technically sound and feasible, then it's you, the manager, who can't organize the workers, can't set up the technology, and so on and so forth, which means you're a weakling and a candidate for replacement.

Strong managers were the ones who turned a corner, overfulfilling the plan. Usually, they either put a previously messy enterprise in order, or found a way to radically improve the technology. Their achievements were treated very well. Firstly, overfulfilling the current plan means free resources that can be directed to something important now. Secondly, changing the technology with a reduction in the consumption of raw materials and labor frees up resources in a number of industries at once. If someone at a large plant figured out how to make the same products with 15% less steel consumption, this means that he took part of the task off the metallurgists, ore and coal miners, and railroad workers. That is, the plan can be revised in the direction of improving the final results.


During the first five-year period, so many unused reserves were discovered that they decided to shorten the five-year period

However, too much overfulfillment of plans inevitably led to their revision, since the planners clearly overlooked and did not take into account the available reserves. This happened often, since it is impossible to survey the entire economy from one office.

A simple but demanding system


In general, such a planning system was simple in its basic principles, starting from the desire to get something and calculating how much this desired thing would cost. The planning calculations were also very simple and, as a rule, did not use sophisticated mathematical methods. Sometimes I even said that for the planners of the Stalin era, arithmetic plus percentages was enough - the most frequently used mathematical operations. A good planner could draw it up with a pencil on paper, without any computers.

However, such a planning system required, firstly, an excellent understanding of the technical essence of production, that is, knowledge of how one product is transformed into another and what the ratio of input to output is. Therefore, at that time, planners came mainly from industries, technologists or economists from enterprises or trusts.
Secondly, such a system required accuracy and precision, because an error or omission, when something was forgotten, made at the early stages, was then multiplied in all other calculations. Finding the ends of the balance discrepancy was not easy.

Thirdly, although the calculations themselves were simple, the amount of work for manual calculations was enormous and often overwhelming, which affected the quality of planning. With today's technology, such calculations would be done easily and simply.
Finally, what I like most about this planning system is the complete absence of the word “optimization.” The Stalin-era planners did not have such a concept; moreover, they consciously rejected it. The only time there was an “optimal option” was in the first five-year plan, and even that meant a plan option for especially favorable conditions. They did not adapt to shortages, or to “bottlenecks,” or to the lack of necessary equipment, and in general they considered any and all economic problems solvable.

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  1. -4
    2 January 2025 04: 30
    Underfulfillment of plans was as harmful as overfulfillment. And just as inevitable. The result? All sorts of "pushers" and "annoyers." Deficit and those who "sit" on it. And since it was profitable to sit on a deficit, the deficit was created deliberately and everywhere. The result? The ineffective capitalist system devoured the socialist (although... what kind of socialist is it...) system, which suddenly turned out to be even less effective. And there are no new ideas on the horizon.
    So for now, it's going as it goes.
    1. +11
      2 January 2025 04: 50
      Not even capitalist, but parasitic. The enemies of the USSR, having seized the republics of the USSR, turned out to be capable only of parasitizing on the results of the labor of the communists and their supporters, the import of food and manufactured goods, and the work of foreign firms.
      But under capitalism there is no shortage - because if there is a shortage of some goods and products, then the capitalists sharply raise prices on them, buy up a lot of imports, and produce low-quality products.
      1. -15
        2 January 2025 05: 07
        Yes, yes, tell me, who lived in the USSR, about how the products were of good quality back then, but are no good now. About "blue" chickens, about souring milk, about burnt-out TVs, about the "quality mark", about medicines... About clothes and shoes...
        1. +12
          2 January 2025 05: 20
          It is useless to prove anything to the enemies of the USSR, for you "achievement" in comparison with the USSR is not the development of your country, not the improvement of the life of your people, not the increase in the number of your people, but import, counterfeit Soviet products, the fact that you, having destroyed two-thirds of cattle, poisoning the people with bread from feed grain with a bunch of chemicals at high prices, export a lot of grain to other countries to enrich your "new kulaks", the fact that you pump poultry and cattle with growth hormones.
          1. +9
            2 January 2025 06: 41
            pump poultry and cattle with growth hormones.

            Miratorg is especially famous for this.
          2. +7
            2 January 2025 09: 05
            Quote: tatra
            There is no point in proving anything to the enemies of the USSR

            They will always find "blue hens with sour milk".
            1. +3
              2 January 2025 09: 13
              The thing is that playing on the consumers' field by their rules is useless. They always lack something. But to tell about honesty, safety, accessibility of education. Now, not the whole country goes to the Seychelles. But in Soviet times, anyone could go to Crimea or the Caucasus...
              1. -1
                2 January 2025 09: 27
                Quote: Gardamir
                Nowadays, not the whole country goes to the Seychelles.

                This is a brand, to show how rich it is, and for me, having traveled half the world, these Seychelles and Bali are not even needed for free, but I enjoy visiting the Tatra Mountains and the Austrian Alps, and Norway as well.
                1. 0
                  9 January 2025 01: 38
                  Well, the supporters of capitalism operate with this, that now we can travel abroad, take out loans, and be deeply in debt. At the same time, they shout that "Putin took everything from them." At the same time, they themselves are often to blame for all this. Everyone shouts that Putin closed the factories. But it was not Putin who closed them, but the owners of these factories, plants and enterprises, they bankrupted them and took the money abroad. Putin is not to blame for the fact that the owner of the factory, who received financing from the state, took all the money abroad.
        2. +19
          2 January 2025 06: 21
          Quote: acetophenon
          About "blue" chickens, about souring milk, about burnt-out TVs, about the "quality mark"

          What year is this?
          The chickens were quite normal, they managed to feed all the babies with milk (for free), and the quality mark... today's products will never reach it... The razor and the TV served for thirty years without a single breakdown.
          1. +1
            2 January 2025 07: 46
            Quote: Doccor18
            The razor and the television served for thirty years without a single breakdown.

            A thirty-year-old TV won't cope with a modern signal, you need to convert it. And it's still a pleasure to watch an HD program in the resolution of an ancient vacuum tube. Nowadays, 40+ inch LCD 1080HD are available even to the last paupers.
            I don’t know about the razor, I’ve been shaving “wet” all my life.
            1. +3
              2 January 2025 08: 04
              Quote: Nagan
              A thirty-year-old TV won't cope with the current signal, you need to

              Until 2001 it worked properly, then the kinescope broke down, naturally repair was unrealistic, but it turned on, the sound also worked. There is a feeling that if it could be repaired, it would work to this day...
              1. -1
                2 January 2025 08: 13
                Quote: Doccor18
                It worked properly until 2001
                Is this a box from 1971? Probably still a tube one, black and white?
                1. 0
                  2 January 2025 08: 21
                  Photon, I don’t remember exactly, either 72 or 74 years old...
                  1. +1
                    2 January 2025 20: 06
                    And the channel switching unit didn't break? It wore out on everyone, after about 7-10 years of use. And the kinescope wore out about the same way, after about ten years you could hardly see anything. In addition, the lamps had a tendency to heat up and lose contacts, TVs worked with periodic impacts on the case. At that time, there were no contacts made of tin-bismuth alloy, they appeared later.
                    I just don't have any special complaints. I don't like when things are embellished, whether with or without cause.
                    1. +2
                      2 January 2025 21: 19
                      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                      I don’t like it when people embellish things, whether with or without reason.

                      I write as it is. Never been repaired. And how many moves/containers it has endured...
                      My father still has it on his veranda, standing on legs, like a monument to a bygone era.
            2. 0
              2 January 2025 14: 22
              Quote: Nagan
              A thirty year old TV won't cope with the current signal, it needs to be converted
              Not necessarily: for example, we have an old analogue that comes via antenna (not from the air).
              Quote: Nagan
              And it’s also a pleasure to watch an HD program in the resolution of an ancient vacuum tube.
              In 2020, my mom's TV's vertical scan died, so we installed a pre-purchased LCD TV with all the bells and whistles. I didn't like it (the picture wasn't the same, not familiar), so we found an old CRT TV. Not everything is determined by the coolness of the product, sometimes habits rule.
              1. 0
                2 January 2025 18: 43
                Quote: bk0010
                For example, we have an old analogue that comes through the antenna (not from the air).

                And we have digital on the air. However, I gave up the idiot box before the standard changed and threw the last TV, still quite alive, into the trash. The children grew up then, got smartphones, and watching cartoons on disks became a thing of the past. Our antenna reception was poor, after all, far from the New York tower. And I didn’t even install cable in the house. If and when I want to watch something, I watch exactly what I want, when I want, on the computer.
                1. 0
                  2 January 2025 21: 44
                  Quote: Nagan
                  And we have digital broadcasts too.
                  We have had digital on the air for some time now. But the home provider also provides an analog signal.
          2. +10
            2 January 2025 08: 49
            They managed to feed all the babies with milk (for free)

            Not only were all babies fed with milk, but there were also so-called milk kitchens, where nursing mothers donated their excess milk, and those mothers who had no milk or little milk could get mother's milk for their children at this kitchen.
            Where does this exist in Russia now!?
            1. 0
              2 January 2025 22: 07
              Milk kitchens exist very well now and provide a very wide range of products for free.
              1. 0
                3 January 2025 08: 13
                Help from the Internet: "Today, the concept of "milk kitchen" does not exist in Russian legislation." There is no concept and there are no milk kitchens. Pregnant women, women in labor, children under 3 years of age can be provided with additional nutrition upon a doctor's conclusion.
                In the Russian Empire, since 1901, there were "Kaplya Moloko" centers - the predecessors of the milk kitchen. In the USSR, milk kitchens were everywhere and worked perfectly. Nursing women donated their excess milk there, and any nursing mother could go there if she did not have or did not have enough of her own milk.
                1. 0
                  3 January 2025 11: 10
                  Ah, I'm not talking about legislation, but about the fact that milk kitchens are now perfectly fine, of course no one gives away milk, but they give out a free set of products for children. My son constantly takes food there, for the child
                  All pregnant women and newborns are provided without exception
                  Google "milk kitchen", everything is written in an accessible way
                  1. +1
                    3 January 2025 11: 27
                    I'm not talking about legislation, but about milk kitchens

                    Read what was written above. We are talking specifically about milk kitchens, where nursing mothers donated surplus milk, which was then received by mothers whose milk disappeared or was insufficient.
                    Now, as stated above
                    Pregnant women, women in labor, and children under 3 years of age may be provided with additional nutrition based on a doctor’s opinion.

                    But this additional food has nothing in common with the milk kitchen that existed in the USSR.
                    1. -1
                      3 January 2025 13: 21
                      Everyone is provided, without exception, without a doctor's note, just a pregnancy certificate
                      1. 0
                        7 January 2025 15: 55
                        Everyone is provided, without exception, without a doctor's note

                        You wrote correctly about the doctor's conclusion, about benefits, about the existence of milk kitchens. But!!! It seems that you are not at all aware that the existing milk kitchens simply distribute baby food purchased at various tenders for state purchases. Earlier, in the USSR, milk kitchens PREPARED baby dairy products (cottage cheese, fermented milk products, etc.) with a shelf life of 2-3 days. This was healthy food from natural milk, according to all GOSTs and with all checks.
                        What they give out now is pseudo-substitutes for baby food. I myself went to Soviet milk kitchens, where I took kefir, milk, etc. in glass containers. And this was for ALL children, for all nursing mothers!!!
          3. +4
            2 January 2025 12: 06
            They forgot about refrigerators! "ZIL", "Yuryuzan", "Tambov",... The "Tula" washing machine also worked great, only the automation was tight then!!!
            True, it must be taken into account that military factories produced a lot of things...
            1. 0
              2 January 2025 22: 21
              In my opinion, only consumer goods workshops of military-industrial complex plants, except for ZiL (and even then, the question is where to classify it), produced them. Mainly, enterprises of the Ministry of Defense Industry. "Oka", "Yuryuzan" and "Sviyaga" are cartridge factories, but "Saratov" is MAP, aircraft unit manufacturing. I don't even remember the other brands.
          4. +2
            2 January 2025 17: 57
            The 1976 Oka refrigerator still works, has never been refilled, although for the last 15 years it has only worked in the summer at the dacha. Once, about 10 years ago, a repairman changed the relay for a new one, but a week later he threw out the new relay and put in the old one.
            1. +2
              3 January 2025 00: 22
              Oka-III works in our summer cottage too. Amazing durability. When it breaks (if) I plan to change the seals and repaint with powder. So that it is like new.
          5. +5
            2 January 2025 18: 17
            Quote: Doccor18
            They managed to feed all the babies with milk (for free)

            At our work we were given 0,5 milk every day for "harmful conditions", and my wife was given marmalade for harmful working conditions. I doubt they give it out now, especially for free.
            1. +2
              2 January 2025 21: 16
              Quote: 16112014nk
              and for the wife, for harmful working conditions - marmalade

              Back then there was such marmalade... with medicinal properties, but now after the "miracle of chemical thought" (marmalade) there is only a scattering of allergic reactions fellow
        3. +16
          2 January 2025 06: 57
          And in the USSR, everyone walked around half-naked in torn pants, half-starved, in torn felt boots, repaired with blue electrical tape, not everyone had a refrigerator, and a TV, even a broken one, was a luxury. lol For those who didn't get it - this is sarcasm. All the shelves were filled with Soviet shoes, but we all wanted CEBO or even Yugoslavian ones, which were better, but 5-6 times more expensive. Our "Dnepr" refrigerator worked for about 40 years and would have worked for God knows how much longer if it hadn't burned down along with the dacha. It was under Gorbachev that an artificially created shortage arose.
          It’s just that those who didn’t live in the pre-Gorbakov USSR won’t understand what we’re talking about.
          1. +4
            2 January 2025 08: 06
            Quote: Amateur
            And in the USSR, everyone walked around half-naked in torn pants, half-starved, in torn felt boots, repaired with blue tape, not everyone had a refrigerator, and a TV, even a broken one, was a luxury
            And whole villages and towns died from hunger, cold and diseases. Until "democracy" and a market economy came wink
          2. 0
            2 January 2025 08: 22
            Quote: Amateur
            All the shelves were filled with Soviet shoes, but we all wanted CEBO or even Yugoslavian ones, which were better, but 5-6 times more expensive.
            Yes, all the shelves were filled with "Skorokhod", and there were even tolerable-looking models, but the legs were yours, not your uncle's, and it would be a shame to ruin them like that. Salamander, if you tried, was really "obtainable", and it cost, even with markups, only 2 times more, but it sat so that after Skorokhod's "Spanish boots" it was an unspeakable pleasure, worth that money. And when that same "Skorokhod" began to produce Salamander models under license, at the price of "Skorokhod", there were queues for these "Skoromanders", but they were rushed no worse than the German ones.
            1. 0
              2 January 2025 22: 08
              One small question, but capable of destroying your logical constructions. German shoes themselves уRussian and it is impossible to wear it. Either that Salamander was made specifically for the USSR or... or you have "non-Soviet" legs... or a tongue...
              So...? How did it really happen?
              1. 0
                2 January 2025 22: 17
                I don't know, maybe they made them for the USSR using different measurements, but to me the Salamander seemed wider than the Skorokhod in the same size. Or maybe the leather was softer. Over 30 years, a lot is forgotten, but I remember that they fit better.
                1. +2
                  2 January 2025 22: 33
                  But I don't remember any problems with wearing shoes. The shoes always sat well on my feet. Another thing is that the shoes were often still on studs and fell apart faster than cast ones. Only later did the problem with the size appear, intermediate sizes disappeared from sale. And today's standard range of 41, 42, 43.. is unsuitable for half of the population, since this half. has intermediate sizes 40,5; 41,5; 42,5 and so on.
                  1. 0
                    2 January 2025 22: 42
                    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                    the shoes were often still on studs and fell apart faster than cast ones.
                    I don't remember anything like that, only shoemakers in kiosks put horseshoes on studs. And so stitched, on a welt. Personally, I had a problem with Soviet footwear that it pressed on the instep and rubbed my toes from above. If you could still play with the instep with the lacing, then you had to stretch the toes. And it didn't always work.
                    1. 0
                      2 January 2025 22: 46
                      Maybe the mythical Salomander was so pressed wassat ? Well, it's funny, by God. laughing Well, I don't remember such problems. The studs gradually disappeared, somewhere around the 80s there were already solid soles.
          3. +4
            2 January 2025 09: 16
            Quote: Amateur
            It’s just that those who didn’t live in the pre-Gorbakov USSR won’t understand what we’re talking about.

            As one activist said: “We didn’t live richly, but we lived well!”
            My father, without straining his family, bought a 3-room cooperative apartment and anyone could do this.
            1. -1
              2 January 2025 11: 02
              Quote: carpenter
              I bought a 3-room cooperative apartment and anyone could do it.
              Excuse me, did he buy the apartment from a cooperative member with the consent of the general meeting of cooperative members? Or did he join the cooperative during its organization, before the construction of the house began? Let me remind you that during the Soviet era, housing cooperatives were usually created based on production criteria, that is, by employees of one organization or one department. For example, I encountered this, although after the collapse of the USSR, when I bought an apartment in a cooperative house. Despite the fact that I was already registered as the owner, in order not to aggravate relations with the cooperative, I had to come to a meeting of the cooperative, where the cooperative members first voted to give consent to the previous owner to sell the apartment, then to exclude him from the cooperative, then they accepted me into the cooperative and then voted that I had the right to purchase the apartment I had already purchased. wink
              1. -1
                2 January 2025 12: 11
                Quote: Seal
                Excuse me, did he buy an apartment from a cooperative member with the consent of the general meeting of cooperative members?

                In addition to the production feature, we had a city cooperative.
                My father bought an apartment in Moscow through "Inyurkollegiya", which registered everything in our city. It's a little different here than it was in the RSFSR.
                1. -1
                  2 January 2025 12: 58
                  Father bought an apartment in Moscow through Inyurkollegiya
                  Sorry again. Did your dad work in this college himself or did he receive an inheritance through Inyurkollegiya?
                  1. 0
                    2 January 2025 21: 54
                    Quote: Seal
                    or did he receive the inheritance through the Injurcollegium?

                    1. -1
                      2 January 2025 23: 50
                      Excuse me, but could you please put into words what you posted? All I see on my computer is a black rectangle. Like Malevich's "Black Square". request
                      1. 0
                        2 January 2025 23: 53
                        Quote: Seal
                        Can you verbalize what you posted? I only see a black screen on my computer.

                        Galich's song "Ballad of Surplus Value". Performed by the author.
                        It looks like rutube is glitching, and youtube seems to be blocked for you.
                  2. -1
                    3 January 2025 10: 31
                    A question for the two minus-voters. Excuse me, could you tell me in a little more detail what exactly offended you so much in my innocent clarifying question that you decided to express your negative attitude to my question?
                2. 0
                  2 January 2025 22: 09
                  Quote: carpenter
                  Father bought an apartment in Moscow through Inyurkollegiya
                  It seems that your father was not an ordinary Soviet person. As they used to say back then, "Soviet people eat "Separate" sausage, and separate people eat "Soviet" sausage." How did "Soviet" sausage sell well? Of course, that's in the past, but it's still interesting.
                  Quote: carpenter
                  We have it a little different than it was in the RSFSR.
                  Where is this, excuse me, in your place?
                  1. 0
                    3 January 2025 10: 21
                    Judging by this phrase:
                    Father bought an apartment in Moscow through "Inyurkollegiya", which processed everything for our city.
                    Personally, I got the impression that the dad of the nickname "carpenter (Dimon)" still received a decent inheritance from some relative who died in the West, and after he transferred part of the inheritance to the Peace Fund, he still had a fairly significant amount left. Even after converting it into rubles at the official rate of 60-something kopecks per dollar. It is quite possible that Inyurkollegiya also provided such services to those who received inheritance from abroad as the acquisition of cooperative apartments in various cities of the USSR. Of course, in those where cooperative houses were being built or had already been built. By the way, I believe that those who received inheritance through Inyurkollegiya could also acquire "not a luxury, but a means of transportation" without waiting in line. winked
                    Of course, I would like to hear confirmation or refutation from the author of the comment.
                    My father, without straining his family, bought a 3-room cooperative apartment and anyone could do it.
                    , but alas, he went somewhere sad I hope he'll come back for beer. drinks
              2. +3
                2 January 2025 13: 08
                Quote: Seal
                then I was accepted into the cooperative and then they voted that I had the right to purchase the apartment I had already bought.

                That's right. A cooperative is not private but joint property, a collective farm in general. smile
                By the way, you can also find this in Europe, for example, to buy a house or a plot of land in some places you need to get the consent of the community. And they will also tell you what color the fence can be painted and what the facade can be painted.
                1. -1
                  2 January 2025 13: 43
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  That's right. A cooperative is not private but joint property, a collective farm in general.
                  So the whole point is that it was 1994 and I didn't have to join the cooperative at all. And I wasn't obliged to go to their meetings. The chairman persuaded me. Because, he said, our cooperative is falling apart, like a quarter of the apartments in the building have already been bought and resold, and I (meaning the chairman) don't even know who lives in them. They don't pay attention to our cooperative, and many of the new residents pay their utility bills poorly. Here it should be explained that there were no water meters yet, the cooperative itself made charges for water, and accordingly, they paid for the water to the cooperative, and the cooperative then settled with Mosvodokanal.
                  Well, what, do I feel sorry for him? Especially since the chairman lived in the same building where I bought an apartment.
                  1. 0
                    2 January 2025 20: 45
                    Quote: Seal
                    So the whole point is that it was 1994 and I didn’t have to join the cooperative at all.

                    The moment is slippery. It would be a piece of cake to declare such a deal null and void. By the way, there were similar cases of illegal seizure of land from collective farms.
                    1. 0
                      3 January 2025 10: 33
                      Quote: Saxahorse
                      It would be a piece of cake to declare such a deal null and void.
                      Well, it's not a piece of cake. By that time, a significant portion of the apartments in the building were registered as individual property in full compliance with the law. And the one I bought was the same.
                      1. 0
                        3 January 2025 11: 44
                        Quote: Seal
                        was registered as individual property in full compliance with the law.

                        Here the dog is buried. smile
                        At the very beginning there should have been a protocol of this very collective farm meeting either about accepting a new owner into the collective farm or consent to the seizure of this property from the collective farm. As you did yourself. So far no one cares, it seems like nothing, but when after ten years there are people who want to protest this (in some of their own interests, of course), everything suddenly turns into a problem.
                      2. 0
                        3 January 2025 12: 14
                        The example with collective farms is not entirely successful. Because when talking about collective farms, we are talking about land. But the sale of land in those years was not regulated at all. That is the reason for all the problems.
        4. +8
          2 January 2025 07: 04
          When did you live in the USSR? I really have a lot to remember, both good and bad, because I lived, so to speak, my entire conscious life in the USSR!
          And I can tell you a lot about televisions and about "blue hens"!
          For example, mine still works, and I shave with a Berdsk electric razor, made in the USSR with a quality mark, and which is already 50+ years old! It has never been repaired! And I have not changed the blades!
          And here you sing about medicine and so on. Medicine was free and accessible!
          Do you know what the head doctor just did in our district clinic?
          In short. You can't make an appointment with a doctor through government services, well, maybe with a dentist.
          You can't sign up in person at the reception either. Ask, what to do? It's very simple. They installed a telephone (one), attached 3 reception desks to it (general, oncology, and dental with women's) and implemented a procedure. Registration is only by phone from 7-30 in the morning to 8-00. It is impossible to get through, and if you get through, it starts ... if you need a general appointment, press 1, if oncology, press 2, if the dentist or women's, press 3.
          1). Will grandparents from the villages really understand these 1-2-3?
          2) How many patients can be registered in 30 minutes from a district with a population of 45 people?
          3),. But now there are no queues to any specialist! Previously, there were not enough numbers in the cloakroom for patients, now the cloakroom attendant is standing bored!
          And the sick? Who needs them!
          The main thing is peace and quiet, and God's grace!
          1. -6
            2 January 2025 08: 42
            Quote: your vsr 66-67
            Medicine was free and accessible!


            Quote: your vsr 66-67
            well only if it's to the dentist

            No wonder my father was missing half his teeth by the time he was 60. And I was lucky that I found a reliable source of chocolates in "Assorted" boxes quite early on, where and how is another topic, worthy of an article, not a comment. If you come with a sore tooth to the dental clinic on Vyborgskaya Embankment, not far from the Naval Academy, they will immediately tell you that you need to pull it. And they did it without anesthesia. And when you show the box, "you can try to save the tooth." And they had a syringe with lidocaine, and they unpacked an imported chair with a turbo drill. And the state price for this shitty box was about three, and such an effect.
            And when my father came to America, in the very first month, under Medicaid, i.e. insurance for the poor, he got prosthetics (in the 90s, implants were not installed yet, or maybe they were installed in expensive private offices that did not accept Medicaid - it was a long time ago, I don’t remember) on equipment that they would not have provided on Vyborg Embankment even with a box of such boxes of chocolate - there was none.
            1. +1
              2 January 2025 09: 15
              You won’t believe it now and they don’t want to treat your teeth for money.
              1. -1
                2 January 2025 09: 29
                Quote: Gardamir
                You won’t believe it now and they don’t want to treat your teeth for money.
                As they used to say back in the USSR, and perhaps even under the tsars, "what you can't get for money, you can get for a lot of money." lol
                1. +4
                  2 January 2025 09: 38
                  I meant, you come, they do something, you give them some money, and six months later the tooth falls out.
                  1. +1
                    2 January 2025 19: 04
                    Quote: Gardamir
                    You come, they do something, you pay money, and after six months the tooth falls out.
                    In America, this has never happened to me. Maybe because in such cases, the person providing substandard medical services can be sued for malpractice, and not just for money, but for a lot of money. Maybe even a lot of money. Like, it's enough to stuff your entire mouth with implants, and there'll still be enough left over for a hefty car and a garage for it, which goes along with the house.lol Judging by the fact that law firms specializing in this constantly broadcast advertisements on the radio, they are not sitting idle.
                    And also because my dentist can't do a bad job. I've been going to him since the last century. Our guy, Russian-speaking, from I don't remember which of the spratlands. He charges way more than the insurance covers, but it's worth it. After all, I have way more dollars than teeth. So for more than a quarter of a century, this Misha has put a cooler car in my mouth than the one I drive, even when it was new.
                    1. 0
                      3 January 2025 00: 46
                      And so it is everywhere. No matter how well you know the local language, no matter how much money you have - "Russian-speaking" is still a priority, even in small things. It's strange.
                      1. +1
                        3 January 2025 01: 25
                        Quote from Arisaka
                        And so it is everywhere. No matter how well you know the local language, no matter how much money you have - "Russian-speaking" is still a priority, even in small things. It's strange.
                        No, it's not strange. I went to him back in the last century, when my English still left much to be desired, as they say. And even now, it's still impossible to explain yourself in English with the same nuances as in Russian, and with doctors, even nuances matter. But my mechanic speaks English, although nuances are also important with a car, if you want them to change a gasket, and not the entire unit. Although, maybe the point is that I was much more confident in my English 10 years ago than I was in the last century. And yes, think about it, the family doctor I went to, also in the last century, is a former Muscovite. And I chose an English-speaking surgeon to repair my spine based on reviews, although there is a Russian-speaking surgeon in the same office, but at that time (about 5 years ago) he was just starting his career. God forbid the person who has fixed my back 5 times already (there are a lot of vertebrae and discs that need to be fixed, but they do it 1 at a time) retires (he is well over 70), I will probably switch to a Russian-speaking person, he will have gained experience by that time.
            2. +11
              2 January 2025 09: 34
              Dear Nagan,
              It's just that all the time when we compare the Union with developed Western countries,
              We forget the key, historical factor.
              The USA developed in much more favorable conditions, with greater resources. The USA was created by people from countries that were leaders in science and technology.
              Our backwardness, even at that time, was due to the fact that we later entered the path of historical development, this was the case in the 17th and early 20th centuries + our country in 1941 became the object of the colonial question for Germany, and during it the European part of the USSR was almost completely destroyed, the same Leningrad suffered gigantic human losses.
              And the USSR could not, by all parameters, with the gigantic effort of its population, suddenly, even by the 80s, catch up with the USA in technology and material well-being. Hence the huge difference in what you write about.
              And not because Leningrad doctors loved to pull teeth according to the precepts of... Peter the Great. laughing
              hi
              1. -2
                2 January 2025 11: 12
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                In 1941, our country became the object of the colonial question for Germany, and during this, the European part of the USSR was almost completely destroyed; Leningrad itself suffered enormous human losses.
                Japan was not in the best position. Bombed to pieces, and with nuclear bombs, too. And the whole country was bombed. Human losses, although significantly less than ours, were still huge. The Japanese lost about 3,3 million people killed: 2,566 million military and 672 thousand civilians. And in 1940, the population of Japan was 71 people - this is only the Japanese themselves, without the Koreans and others who were part of the Japanese Empire.
                1. +7
                  2 January 2025 12: 15
                  Japan was not in a better position.

                  Again an old song about something new or vice versa.
                  Japan was occupied and did not spend money on the military, which made it possible to develop the economy.
                  The absence of military expenditures is an important factor in economic development. The same was true for the US for almost 100 years, excluding the civil war.
                  The USSR was forced to spend huge sums on the army, since the threat of war for the USSR was not an abstraction. Japan was not threatened at all.
                  The most capacious market in the world in terms of consumption was opened up for Japan, but what about the USSR?
                  And the USSR lost 20 million!!!! and the destroyed territory of the European part,
                  so the comparison is not very appropriate.
                  PS
                  The Russian Federation did not spend on weapons and the army for almost 30 years: immediately everyone acquired foreign cars, more expensive than the apartments provided in the USSR, began to travel abroad and "take out" loans and mortgages, and if the military budget of the Russian Federation was adequate to external threats, it would not even come close to the prosperity of the "noughties" and "tenties".
                  1. -3
                    2 January 2025 13: 07
                    Actually, let me remind you that you wrote not about the principles of distributing the post-war budget, but about this:
                    Our backwardness, even at that time, was due to the fact that we later entered the path of historical development, this was the case in the 17th and early 20th centuries + our country in 1941 became the object of the colonial question for Germany, and during it the European part of the USSR was almost completely destroyed, the same Leningrad suffered gigantic human losses.

                    And now it turns out that destruction has nothing to do with it, but the main thing is that
                    Japan was occupied and did not spend money on the military, which made it possible to develop the economy.

                    Well, let's also take into account that after the war, 10 prisoners worked for almost 3 years to restore the economy. Of these, it is true, half a million died, but nevertheless, before they died, they worked.
                    Well, we also have to take into account the huge reparations from Germany in the form of machine tools and other industrial equipment, tractors, ships, etc., etc.
                    1. +7
                      2 January 2025 13: 42
                      Well, let's also take into account that after the war, 10 prisoners worked for almost 3 years to restore the economy.

                      The work of prisoners of war did not even come close to compensating for the losses of the USSR; both of my grandfathers died, my grandmothers remained young, one with three, the other with four children!
                      We must take into account the enormous reparations from Germany in the form of machine tools and other industrial equipment, tractors, ships, etc., etc.

                      The USSR refused part of the reparations, in addition, the USSR was forced to feed half of Europe right from 1945, including East Germany. Which was justified from a military point of view: it is better to feed half of Europe than the enemy at Kursk.
                      And what about Japan making reparations to the USA?
                      So the comparison here is meaningless.
                      P.S. By the way, in 2025 Japan's military budget is $50 billion, and the social budget is $242 billion.
              2. -3
                2 January 2025 19: 30
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                We entered the path of historical development later

                and when we "entered the path of historical development"?

                And yes, what happened before this date? request
                1. -1
                  2 January 2025 20: 39
                  laughing The times before time wassat
                  1. 0
                    4 January 2025 10: 32
                    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                    The times before time

                    But the US was earlier. Understandable. lol
          2. 0
            3 January 2025 16: 16
            And here you sing about medicine and so on. Medicine was free and accessible!

            I have been treated in departmental polyclinics all my life, but there were also breaks when I had to use district ones. Sorry, but in district polyclinics (I was there in 1990) even if you wait in line to see a therapist with a ticket, no one cares about my ticket, old ladies would arrange a live queue in which they would take places for each other. I was there twice during the USSR (in 1989 and 1990), once I sat for almost four hours in vain and left, deciding that I would cure myself. Another time, also after two hours of extra sitting, I got through to a specialist with a scandal.
            But in 2015, in a strange city, I was taken to a hospital by ambulance. They admitted me under the compulsory medical insurance policy. They conducted the necessary tests. Then they performed an operation - they removed my gall bladder.
            After the operation, they spent three more weeks getting me in order, as there was some kind of inflammatory process, which resulted in a consistently high temperature (above 38 degrees). Once they got me in order, my temperature became 36,6 - they discharged me. I spent almost a month alone in a two-bed ward. How much did it cost me? Not a penny!!! I wanted to give the nurse 500 rubles for cleaning the ward well - she didn't take it.

            True, last year I got a referral for an echocardiogram on Gosuslugi. So I tried to sign up for six months - all in vain. Only once in October at 07:30 did I manage to catch a window to sign up. But I only thought for a second, choosing a time - and that's it, it flew by. In that second, someone beat me to it. But I can sign up for an ECG without any problems.
        5. BAI
          +6
          2 January 2025 07: 34
          back then the products were of good quality,

          I still have a working ZIL refrigerator from 1970. And a Riga washing machine from the late 60s.
          My friends still have a working refrigerator. ZIS.
          In the end, I have a 2101 VAZ 1972 in excellent condition and running (parents')
          1. +7
            2 January 2025 08: 51
            Quote: BAI
            I still have a working ZIL refrigerator from 1970.

            My parents have two Soviet refrigerators in their garden. And nothing happens to them. You buy one - and it's for the rest of your life!
            And I bought a cool European two-compressor refrigerator Westfrost (Denmark). Made in Europe. But in the third year, its door fell off! I had to rehang it. And in the fifth year, the plastic inside cracked.
          2. +4
            2 January 2025 09: 21
            Quote: BAI
            In the end, I have a 2101 VAZ 1972 in excellent condition and running (parents')

            My father and I still have a "Volga 21" in working order, in the summer we drive around the city to show off, people's eyes widen. We take part in annual retro mobile shows with it.
        6. -11
          2 January 2025 07: 48
          Now you will be told the whole truth! ))
          The history of the USSR is rapidly becoming mythologized, if you listen to people, it was a paradise on earth. According to my observations, the youth who praise the Union never lived a day there, but read a lot of fantastic books about alternative history. Another category of admirers are those who lived their youth in the USSR, when the grass was greener, girls loved and a quarter of black bread with a bottle of kefir was tastier than any jamon or, God forgive me, parmesan. Well, the last category of defenders of the USSR are the people interested in this system, who received benefits from it that are not available to them now. These are all kinds of political workers, responsible employees, as well as proletarians who had the opportunity to go to work, get a salary, but in fact do nothing useful for the last 30 years of the system's existence.
          1. +8
            2 January 2025 08: 20
            Quote: moscowp
            the stakeholders of this system who received benefits from it

            The most surprising thing for you is that the majority were interested parties.
          2. +8
            2 January 2025 08: 31
            Quote: moscowp
            The history of the USSR is rapidly becoming mythologized; if you listen to people, it was like heaven on earth.

            Well, did you feel bad?

            The fact that the USSR was ahead of the rest of the world in its many achievements, and second in economic power. Do you think that is also a myth??
            1. BAI
              +13
              2 January 2025 10: 05
              Well, did you feel bad?



              The younger the blogger, the worse he lived under Stalin
            2. +1
              4 January 2025 14: 05
              Quote: Stas157
              Quote: moscowp
              The history of the USSR is rapidly becoming mythologized; if you listen to people, it was like heaven on earth.

              Well, did you feel bad?...

              I am happy if it is mythologized. It means there is a reason for it and it is in favor of the USSR. For example, after the Revolution of 1917 or after the Great Patriotic War --- no one mythologized the Russian Empire. Many remembered that life and it was stupid to compare.
              1. +1
                4 January 2025 14: 40
                Quote: Reptiloid
                I am happy if it is mythologized. That means there is a reason for it.

                I agree. No one particularly mythologizes the 90s in a good way either. No matter how our government tries to whitewash them and no matter what Yeltsin Centers it builds, all attempts are pointless. And vice versa. No matter how they try to denigrate the Soviet period and board up the Mausoleum with plywood, the bright memory remains.
                1. 0
                  4 January 2025 14: 49
                  bright memory remains

                  Mythologized ---- it means there is a need for such an image. Of course, we must compare it with disgusting processes. Love of the Tsar, worship of the Tsar and mythologizing, for example, such as how "good" industrialists, the bourgeoisie, taught and treated their workers and settled them in comfortable housing around factories and paid their wages in products from their shops. Sarcasm. I wish I knew what the figures were. And what else? If love of the Tsar and stories about the prosperous national past ---- come from above, then no one contributes to the mythologizing of the USSR.
          3. +5
            2 January 2025 08: 53
            Now you will be told the whole truth! ))

            So this is not the whole truth, but slander and lies. He divided people into categories and considers this the truth, and, yes, the whole truth...
          4. +10
            2 January 2025 09: 02
            The USSR is a myth, but not now? Everything that is bad is the damned USSR, and everything that is good is the achievements of the Russian Federation? Somehow the world's first nuclear power plant, an icebreaker, Russia's achievements, the first satellite was launched, it turns out that the Russians tried, Gagarin flew into space, also an achievement of modern Russia and much more. And what about the USSR? It produced products that no one in the world needed, galoshes for blacks to walk on the sand.
          5. -4
            2 January 2025 22: 24
            You are right about the mythologization. In other respects, not so much. The political and responsible workers are doing well even now. And the military and police lived well then. It is from them that I hear mostly about how good life was then. However, one relative, a former policeman, now deceased, was able to get a passport only by joining the police, in the village they did not give it out for free. So he cursed those times with the last words. He especially loved to tell how quickly the bosses abandoned the CPSU then, in half a day they rebuilt.
            By and large, little has changed.
            1. +1
              3 January 2025 15: 01
              Only by going to the police was I able to get a passport, in the village they wouldn't give it to me for free

              I am from a peasant family. Passports were issued to villagers somewhere in the late 60s, and around the same time the USSR began to buy grain from the USA, but I do not connect these two events. There was no particular problem with passports, as far as I know, my parents easily entered the city technical school and studied there. The problem is not with passports, but with the fact that the Soviet system deprived the peasant of the opportunity to run a personal farm (at least in central Russia, in the republics, they say, everything was much more free, in the same Ukraine), and labor on collective farms did not provide any motivation to work for yourself. As a result, everyone who could left the villages, and those who did not leave - mostly drank themselves to death.
        7. +4
          2 January 2025 08: 38
          Don't worry. We are now moving with leaps and bounds towards burnt-out TVs and other delights of lateral imports. We don't produce our own. And perestroika was done under the slogan "let's import". That's probably why the current leadership of the country is afraid to create its own production.
        8. +6
          2 January 2025 08: 49
          about souring milk
          How far progress has come, cows, each one individually, are now milked with cream, kefir, fermented baked milk and even yogurt, fruit and berry. laughing And milk can stand in the refrigerator for years and not turn sour, but become covered in some kind of mold. good You can’t even bake pancakes from it or add it to dough.
        9. +5
          2 January 2025 09: 04
          Quote: acetophenon
          about the "quality mark"

          Nowadays, the highest quality products are considered to be those produced according to old Soviet GOST standards.
        10. +1
          2 January 2025 09: 25
          ...
          Quote: acetophenon
          About "blue" chickens, about souring milk, about burnt-out TVs, about the "quality mark", about medicines...

          Well, milk that doesn’t go sour is a surrogate:), and blue chickens have more muscle mass and, accordingly, protein, while modern ones have more fat.
          And colds were treated with warming, cupping and mustard plasters, and not with chemicals for a lot of money.
          1. -3
            2 January 2025 23: 00
            Stop talking nonsense. The villagers tell me that chickens are not raised for meat, only for eggs. Domestic chickens have lost the competition to broilers completely. Domestic chickens are tough, have a lot of fat and little meat. In broilers it is the opposite.
            Understand me correctly, I am not campaigning for broilers. But the buyer has made his choice, he takes a broiler, and not domestic chickens from the market.
        11. +2
          2 January 2025 10: 43
          I have several watches, binoculars, cameras from the USSR, all of excellent quality and beauty. Cars from the USSR reach the prices of Audi and Mercedes of that period. A refrigerator made in the Polish People's Republic is still in use.
          I didn't even know, but personal computers were produced in the USSR

          1. -1
            2 January 2025 12: 36
            So my brother and I had to assemble a ZX-Spectrum with our own hands from a processor bought at a flea market and some loose parts stolen from the factory on a breadboard.
        12. +2
          2 January 2025 11: 40
          I lived in the USSR and never saw blue hens with sour milk. However, I later read about them in the works of Judases like Topol and Rezun.
          1. -4
            2 January 2025 23: 05
            There really were no problems with milk. It was sold freely. And I don't remember blue chickens either. There were no chickens for sale, none at all. Sometimes they threw soup sets on sale, there was a terrible queue for them. But somewhere in the mid-80s the supply improved and parents bought chickens somewhere.
        13. +1
          4 January 2025 14: 10
          What's wrong with souring milk? It means it's natural and has turned into sour milk! But now the "milk" won't turn sour, but will turn into some kind of jelly-like product, smelly and bitter. And the question arises -- is it milk?
      2. 0
        11 January 2025 10: 55
        And if there are a lot of products, then these products are destroyed, although hungry people will die nearby
    2. 0
      5 January 2025 22: 27
      For reference. France has a 10-year plan for socio-economic development. This does not mean that they plan to produce bras, panties, socks, T-shirts. Promising industries have been identified and financial, labor, construction, etc. resources have been directed to them.
      One more point. With proper planning, the state should provide itself with what it needs. First of all, with labor resources. Something can be bought. The influx of migrants is a tribute to the oligarchs for their insane greed. That is, the expansion of production and increase in profits comes at the expense of increasing the number of workers, reducing labor costs.
  2. +6
    2 January 2025 04: 58
    And not a word is said about the father of the Five-Year Plans, Krzhizhanovsky. There is not even a mention of who was the theorist of the planned economy. It must be assumed that the idea of ​​a planned economy and Five-Year Plans came to the workers of the Council of National Economy in a dream. The article sends you to Google to find out what a planned economy and Five-Year Plans really are? wink
    1. +10
      2 January 2025 05: 57
      it's almost pure voluntarism.
      please don't swear! )))) and about the topic: a lot of letters, I'll say it more simply and concisely: before there were businessmen, and now there are managers. that's all.
      1. +6
        2 January 2025 06: 23
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        and now managers.

        And "effective owners"...
        1. +8
          2 January 2025 06: 59
          And, of course, optimization - which is nothing more than killing reserves.
          1. +8
            2 January 2025 08: 42
            And, of course, optimization - which is nothing more than killing reserves.


            +100. Agree.

            "Efficient managers" can only optimize what has already been created by someone.

            We remember, we remember very well.
            The main optimization took place from 2000 to 2012.
            I would call this time - "The Time of Great Optimization of Russia". At this time, optimizers had a "glorious" time.
            We will not forget their names.

            Industry Optimizer - Victor Khristenko (2004-2012)
            Healthcare Optimizer - Mikhail Zurabov (2004-2007), Tatyana Golikova (2007-2012)
            Optimizer of the RF Armed Forces - Anatoly Serdyukov (2007-2012)
            Optimizer of the Ministry of Education, Science and Enlightenment of Russia - Andrey Fursenko (2004-2012)
            Optimizer of RAO "UES of Russia" - A. Chubais (1998-2008)

            PS
            Film credits:
            "No animals were harmed during the filming of this movie."
            1. +5
              2 January 2025 10: 54
              Space optimizers - well, Ragozin is beyond competition, the rest are finishing off
            2. +1
              11 January 2025 10: 56
              This is how it is optimized not so that people and the country would be better off, but so that the freed-up funds can be “mastered” (appropriated)
  3. +2
    2 January 2025 07: 55
    In 1980, I had to participate in the formation of a five-year plan for the 11th Five-Year Plan (1981-1985) for one of the sectors of the public sector in one of the republics of the former USSR. The amount of equipment and materials was being coordinated with the Union Ministry. And suddenly, along with the approval of my application, they sent me an allocation of 300 pneumatic jackhammers in addition to my application, which I had not declared and which we did not need at all. I called Moscow and tried to refuse them. And then it turned out that I had accidentally stumbled upon one of the miracles of the Soviet economy. In 1935, miner Stakhanov set a record for shift coal mining using the latest jackhammer of that time. Someone, somewhere, decided that all Soviet miners should be armed with such hammers, and it was planned and in 1935-1939 three hammers were manufactured for each, a huge number in total. But while they were being made, they invented and began to mass-produce and use mining combines, which fundamentally changed the technology of coal mining, and such a quantity of jackhammers turned out to be unnecessary. They were not sent to be melted down, but adapted for chipping asphalt. But so many of them were made that they were enough for 3 years of forced distribution to non-core ministries. Such "zigzugs" of planning sometimes occurred under socialism.
    1. -1
      2 January 2025 14: 01
      Soviet classics are remembered, Pumps and wheels

      https://rutube.ru/video/65f545e128e2653ea1586a607bf4b041
      1. +3
        2 January 2025 14: 39
        Taken from real life. I had a similar situation. One fine day, my colleague brings his Vietnamese classmate to me and asks me to consult him on some equipment. I, not suspecting the possible consequences, honestly told the guy that this equipment is better, that is worse, and this one, produced by a plant in the Armenian city of Dilijan, is called an "Armenian joke", because it is 100% defective and we, receiving it from the plant, do not even unpack it, but store it for subsequent write-off. About half a year passes or a little more. And suddenly we receive an order from Moscow to receive a large number of these "Armenian jokes". I call Moscow and begin to be indignant: why are we given equipment that does not work and for which they themselves will then scold us for increasing the percentage of uninstalled equipment. A Moscow colleague, with whom I had excellent relations, confided that they were forced to distribute a large batch of this Diligence product throughout the Union, since it was made "as fraternal aid to Vietnam," but he refused to receive it. I quickly struck up a conversation and rushed to the colleague who had brought that Vietnamese to me. "Who did you bring to me? Who is he?" "He is my classmate, and now he is the 1st Deputy Minister in Hanoi." Here I realized that if I touched on this issue again, I would be in trouble. And I kept quiet for over 40 years. request
        1. +1
          2 January 2025 17: 26
          and this, produced by a factory in the Armenian city of Dilijan, is called an "Armenian joke", because it is 100% defective
          Well, absolutely 100%. More like 70-80%, but the fact that it is sh i t is true.
    2. +1
      2 January 2025 17: 20
      and in 1935-1939, 3 hammers were made for each,
      I don't know where this information about overproduction of jackhammers comes from, but Stakhanov set his record because he saw stress nodes in coal seams, hit them, and the coal was thrown out by itself. Naturally, this is only possible with manual work and knowledge of the structure of the seams; a mining combine has no need for this. By the way, when, as a young specialist, I worked my month on the construction of our new aerodynamic installation, I was hammering a concrete floor with a jackhammer made in 1975 (in 1978). I didn't see any ancient hammers from the 30s. And the captured Nazi machines in the workshops are still working.
  4. +6
    2 January 2025 08: 05
    Such articles are, of course, needed, on the one hand, to test the reaction of society, here, the community of readers on VO, on the other - to maintain general interest in history. But when articles begin with theses, expressions like the following:
    The planners of that time understood that development is far from a smooth and gradual flow of economic life. Development is a man-made crisis, a sharp distortion of all previously existing proportions, a sharp conflict, turning out pockets and forcing to work. This is the only way to do something that was never there before, and in the shortest possible time.
    The economic management faced two interconnected tasks: how to force the people to work more and how to channel as much of the people’s labor as possible into capital investments.

    then the necessity of reading this article raises big, very big doubts...
    Firstly, because development and crisis are not synonyms and not even concepts of the same series, but opposites that are not united in one statement: either development or crisis. Both actions do not exist simultaneously.
    Secondly, in the USSR, planning never had the goal of robbing and plundering the people. On the contrary, development, planned development also assumed an increase in the well-being of the people. That is what was thrown out of the economy by liberals after the collapse of the USSR.
    1. -2
      2 January 2025 23: 12
      It is not entirely clear what you are offended by. The excerpt from the text you cited reflects the spirit of that time. It was decided not to modernize old production facilities, but to build new plants and factories. Naturally, this happened through difficulties and hardships. As you should understand, there was often nothing around the new factories, everything was from scratch, in difficult living conditions, to put it mildly.
      1. 0
        3 January 2025 08: 03
        It's not entirely clear what you're offended by.

        Dear SergeyAleksandrovich (Sergey), I am not offended, but I am expressing my own thoughts regarding the text of the article and pointing out the contradictions that exist in the article, for example, the identification of development with crisis, the fact that the economy of the USSR was aimed at robbing the people...
  5. 0
    2 January 2025 08: 10
    There was also the so-called "counter plan". I still don't know what it is. wink
    1. -1
      2 January 2025 23: 14
      Maybe you don’t know what the “third decisive” is?
  6. +5
    2 January 2025 08: 24
    . An atmospheric photo showing the atmosphere and mood of the early industrial times: Workers walk around the construction site in formation and with a banner.

    Maybe the comrades were going to a party. What's wrong with that? And here you are trying to portray them as some kind of abnormals, performing a strange ritual every day.

    Oh, by the way, my son has a cadet class at school. They have a morning line-up every day. And then they raise the flag! What would you call that attitude?
  7. +4
    2 January 2025 08: 37
    It seems to me that the main thing in a socialist planned economy is that very thing WILL, which directed the people's energy to actual goals for the benefit of these very people. And punished those who sabotaged or stole.
    Unlike the current situation, when in the absence of the WILL of the people, the "hand of the market", but in reality greed, blindly leads our (and not only ours) economy to nowhere.
    1. +3
      2 January 2025 09: 00
      Will and the sword alone are not enough. Incentives are needed to increase productivity. If the elite has most of the wealth, they will usually take most of the income from the common worker.
      1. +1
        2 January 2025 09: 08
        You are absolutely right, of course, ideology is also needed, that is, the vector of application of will. But, in my opinion, will is still primary, it can generate an ideology "for itself". And then it's a matter of luck...
  8. -3
    2 January 2025 09: 17
    As planned under Stalin

    If you start to analyze all the aspects, it’s crap.
    No one will deny that during the reign of IVS the country turned into a developed industrial power. Much has changed in the mentality of the Soviet people, and the post-war restoration of the national economy proceeded at a faster pace than in the same capitalist countries. I am pleased to read messages from users who were born AFTER the death of IVS, but foam at the mouth to prove something, as if they know it better than others.
    All the shortcomings of a totally planned economy have long been analyzed.
    It is possible and necessary to develop Group A industry, the fuel and energy base, and transport in a planned manner.
    It is also necessary to calculate the needs of the army and navy to ensure the security of the country.
    Consumer goods, food industry can be developed comprehensively and the deficit can be replenished through the private sector. This is exactly what was done in the production of vegetables and fruits.
    * * *
    I won't repeat myself about household refrigerators and their quality... And what about household electrical appliances? What, have we forgotten about the shortage of washing machines, irons, electric kettles, color TVs? The whole world was enjoying Japanese electronics, imported cars (especially diesel) were considered an impossible dream, and we were running around the shops looking for floor paint (linoleum) and wallpaper to renovate the apartment. Tiles were only available in certain colors and 100x100...
    The lack of examples for comparison with success was replaced by a rich imagination and fiction... You might as well say that people didn't rush to see Indian and American (other foreign) films that occasionally appeared in theaters...
    * * *
    Let's stop being disingenuous and throwing ashes on our heads. The most important fact of the existence of the USSR never gave the bourgeoisie any peace because the people living in the country received untold wealth in the form of free housing, education, health care and all other social benefits. And every time we celebrated the New Year, we expected new price cuts, an improvement in the quality of life FOR EVERYONE, and not a well-fed life for those who managed to get a foothold at the trough...
    Somewhere in the foundation of socialism there were cracks, which we diligently covered up with whatever we could find, but it was impossible to deceive the entire people for long, which is successfully continuing today.
    And these rulers think to rule forever in lies? Don't think of people as being worse than you. You've only just had time to think, and people have already spoken out about your cunning plans...
    1. 0
      2 January 2025 17: 31
      What, have you forgotten about the shortage of washing machines, irons, electric kettles, and color televisions?
      I wonder when there was a shortage of irons, electric kettles and washing machines? Color TVs were in short supply at one time, but not for more than 5-8 years.
      1. -2
        2 January 2025 18: 34
        Quote: Aviator_
        I wonder when there was a shortage of irons, electric kettles and washing machines?

        I won't look for you... I'm just curious, in what year did you go to the store unaccompanied with fifty (before 1961) or five rubles (after 1961) to talk about the shortage of goods? For example, I remember when ballpoint pens appeared and the refill for them cost 80 kopecks...
        There was a shortage of goods, there was...It was especially acute in the construction segment...
        1. +2
          2 January 2025 18: 40
          I was born in 1955, lived in provincial Orenburg until I was 17, went to the store without my mother, which was in the basement of our communal apartment on Chelyuskintsev 17A, and my mother told me: don't buy Indian tea, buy Ceylon tea. This was in 1962-1963. Ballpoint pens appeared in the city in 1966-67, I don't remember the cost of the rods, I remember that there were kiosks that refilled them with paste. Did that satisfy your curiosity? And when there was a shortage of irons, there is essentially nothing to say?
          1. -4
            2 January 2025 18: 47
            Quote: Aviator_
            And when there was a shortage of irons, there is essentially nothing to say?

            I'm not a bloodhound and I won't rummage around on the Internet. It's quite possible that you had everything, but in our city of students they were snapped up in a flash and that was during the Brezhnev era.
            You disdained Indian tea, but we had Georgian and brick tea widely available...
            Some people want downy shawls, others want carbolite cars...
            1. +4
              2 January 2025 18: 55
              I'm not your bloodhound and I won't scour the Internet.
              Dear (for now), this is your thesis about the absence of irons. Otherwise, it turns out that you are behaving like Academician Sakharov, who, in response to the statement of Afghan Major Chervonopissky at the Congress of Deputies of the USSR Supreme Soviet, told him about his slanderous statement: "Prove that I am wrong!" The speech was about the order of our Armed Forces to shoot from the air our prisoners who were captured in Afghanistan. We did not disdain Indian tea in Orenburg, there was a choice - so we chose. There was nothing there, but we lived well, until coupons for butter and white bread appeared during the late Khrushchev (1964). By the way, would you be so kind as to announce the year of your stay in the "city of students"? Otherwise, it turns out somehow unequal - I have specific years and place, and you are abstract, without time and place.
              1. -2
                2 January 2025 20: 35
                Quote: Aviator_
                Otherwise, it turns out to be somehow unequal - I have specific years and places, and you are abstract, without time and place.

                I asked you:
                Quote: yuriy55
                I'm just curious, in what year did you go to the store unaccompanied with fifty (before 1961) or five rubles (after 1961) to talk about the shortage of goods?

                I made sure that you could see and know everything.
                We had a shortage of irons in the early 60s, and in the villages the shortage lasted even longer.
                That's it! No more questions! Interest is exhausted!
                hi
                1. +1
                  2 January 2025 20: 44
                  He never answered about the years. And he didn't say in which villages there were no irons either. Is he ashamed? Or is he deeply secretive? hi
                  1. -3
                    2 January 2025 23: 20
                    Now imagine, there was a shortage of electrical goods. And you were correctly given the source. But ours were taken apart by foreign students. In a week or two, they swept everything away, from electric stoves to electric frying pans (there were some of those, too).
                    1. +2
                      2 January 2025 23: 42
                      Now imagine, there was a shortage of electrical goods. And you were correctly given the source. But we had foreign students who were sorting it out.
                      I can't imagine. Maybe you could indicate this "source"? And specific years, and a place where "foreign students sort everything out" wouldn't hurt. The previous author is clearly embarrassed. Perhaps it's not specified in the manual.
                      1. +1
                        2 January 2025 23: 47
                        The source means the source of the deficit, these were students. In our city, foreigners, I saw with my own eyes how they swept away all the electrical goods.
                        It was the 80s, or rather, I don't remember. After that shortage, we even had a spare iron. We had a hard time finding a replacement for the burnt one.
                      2. +1
                        3 January 2025 08: 21
                        What is your city? As far as I know, in closed cities (Arzamas-16, Chelyabinsk-70, etc.) there were no foreign students at all. And what were the 80s - Brezhnev's or Gorbachev's? There is a difference.
                      3. 0
                        3 January 2025 15: 17
                        Sergey, more specifically, in what city were foreign students "sweeping away all the electrical goods"? And what period, the 80s? And what students, from Africa? Answer, otherwise it will look like, like yuriy55 (Siberian), you will become like a Ukropitek working according to a manual. There are many of them here.
                      4. 0
                        3 January 2025 15: 21
                        The students were mostly Arabs, there were also quite a few blacks, but I don't remember them buying electric frying pans. And why do you need a city? A regional center, of which there are many. And I don't remember the years, rather the first half of the 80s than the second.
                        Two people have already written to you about the same thing. What's the problem, I don't understand?
                        For example, I worked in Sverdlovsk-44. So what? What do foreign students have to do with it?
                      5. +1
                        3 January 2025 15: 25
                        The problem is the secrecy of the city, which for some reason is not named. Well, yes, two people wrote that it is a city. They do not write which one. Are you afraid that its residents may refute it? Another explanation is that they are working according to a manual. Do you have a third?
                      6. 0
                        3 January 2025 15: 48
                        I don't see any problem at all. For example, Saratov was a closed city, there were most likely no foreign students there. So what?
                        What other manual? What is this even about? In the USSR, sometimes things disappeared from sale. So what? Now, too, things disappear from sale, sometimes for a long time.
                        We used to have putty, it was good for laying tiles, but about ten years ago it disappeared as if it had never existed. Technical alcohol in cans was sold in the 90s, but now it is gone. So what?
                      7. 0
                        3 January 2025 15: 58
                        That is, you do not wish to name the city. Thank you, everything is clear.
                      8. -1
                        3 January 2025 16: 00
                        I don't want to, I personally don't trust you. Maybe I'm confusing it with Aerodrome, for me, the pilots look the same. I have the right.
                      9. 0
                        3 January 2025 18: 25
                        Everything is clear. After the introductory word "possibly", a comma is required. Russian language has been taught poorly in Ukraine for the last 30 years.
                      10. -1
                        3 January 2025 18: 48
                        Your mustache is unstuck. wassat Although the comment is short, it should be clear.
          2. +2
            3 January 2025 01: 58
            A long rod cost 7 kopecks, a short one 5 kopecks, any color, green, red, blue, purple, a simple ballpoint pen 35 kopecks, multi-colored and gift ones are more expensive, in 1973 I bought in Bologoye, in a stationery store, Hungarian 24-color felt-tip pens, they cost about 2 rubles, thin rods, refilled with alcohol drop by drop, great, lasted for 3 years
            1. +2
              3 January 2025 08: 23
              We added alcohol drop by drop, great, it lasted for 3 years
              We had problems with alcohol, we revived them with cologne, successfully.
  9. -2
    2 January 2025 09: 18
    Another piece of anti-Soviet propaganda.
    I read this from the author: “A plan is worth something when it contains a volitional principle that forces the economy to grow and change qualitatively.”
    It is not clear what the volitional principle is. The growth of the economy can still be understood, but what does the volitional principle have to do with it?
    According to the author, a certain volitional principle determines the growth of the economy - by the way, what is this? And what is it - "to change qualitatively" - where to change, why to change, in whose interests to change?
    In general, another piece of anti-Soviet trash from a worthless underachiever.
    1. -1
      2 January 2025 09: 26
      It seems to me that the main thing in a socialist planned economy is that very WILL, which directed the people's energy to actual goals for the benefit of this very people. And punished those who sabotaged or stole.
      Unlike the current situation, when in the absence of the WILL of the people, the "hand of the market", but in reality greed blindly leads our (and not only our) economy to nowhere

      Your comment, in my opinion, is guilty of being short-sighted and labeling...
      1. +1
        2 January 2025 09: 30
        There is no will - it's all just talk - there are economic interests and that's it. Under the dictatorship of the proletariat, its economic interests are realized, under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie - the economic interests of the bourgeoisie. Will only reflects the understanding of these same economic interests. For example, if a capitalist is not greedy, he will simply go down the drain. Therefore, his will is to rob workers and destroy competitors.
        Therefore, your comment is not stupid, it is stupid in its pure, refined form.
        1. -1
          2 January 2025 09: 37
          Quote: Dozorny_ severa
          Under the dictatorship of the proletariat, its economic interests are realized; under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, the economic interests of the bourgeoisie.
          In the 20s Mussolini abandoned the theory of class struggle in favor of class cooperation, although he had previously been an ardent supporter of class struggle. Hitler, receiving instructions from Schacht, followed the same path. Economic successes are obvious. And all these dictatorships, no matter whose, the proletariat or the bourgeoisie, only bring a split into society and nothing more...
          1. -2
            2 January 2025 09: 39
            Quote: Luminman
            Hitler, receiving instructions from Schacht, followed the same path. Economic successes are obvious.

            Yeah, and that's why the Nazis shot communists! Really, and what does class struggle have to do with it?
            In the GDR there were also great successes in industry, so what?
            1. -4
              2 January 2025 14: 49
              Quote: Dozorny_ severa
              Yeah, and that's why the Nazis shot communists! Really, and what does class struggle have to do with it?
              There was a long queue to join the Nazi Party and Hitler even gave a special order to accept former communists into the Party first because they: a) knew what party discipline was; b) were socially close; c) were ideologically savvy. And the most stubborn were shot...
    2. +3
      2 January 2025 16: 30
      Well, there is logic in this, when the people see that their leader and party care about the interests of the majority, then the people become enthusiastic and want to improve their lives themselves. In contrast, you can see how now everyone has their own, and blaming people for this is frankly stupid, since such an attitude is literally broadcast by the top with their behavior and attitude towards others. The agenda of the ruling class always dominates, so when it is a real vanguard that pulls the country forward, then society will respond in kind.
  10. +2
    2 January 2025 09: 21
    Quote: Amateur
    so many of them were made that they were enough for 40 years of forced distribution to non-core ministries. These are the kind of "zigzags" of planning that sometimes occurred under socialism.


    Lies ...
  11. +2
    2 January 2025 09: 30
    In Italy, during the reign of Mussolini, the term was in use economic management - an organization of the economy in which the state has the full right to manage production and distribution of resources. The Third Reich had the same thing, only this practice was called the "four-year plan". In the USA, during the Great Depression, President Roosevelt also introduced something similar. We all know about the Soviet five-year plans. And so I had a question - was there not some single progenitor of all this? economic management, after all, it all happened at about the same time? Thank you...
    1. +5
      2 January 2025 09: 47
      Planning, like many other things, arose naturally in the army. And only with the development of capitalist relations began to be gradually applied in the economy. The first serious steps in Planning, related to the economy, were made in the First World War. Its positive aspects were noted by all reasonable forces seeking a way out of the crisis situation. And to overcome the crisis, unresolved in the First World War, began to be applied, both in the USSR and in the lagging capitalist countries, within the framework of the fascist management system under capitalism.
      Very conditional.
      1. +3
        2 January 2025 19: 02
        Eduard, here is Krasnodar Krai, this is the FRG (without the GDR), France, the Benelux countries taken together in terms of territory... And how many of these European countries were destroyed to dust on the territory of the USSR. But no one is going to take this into account. I just added.
        1. +4
          2 January 2025 20: 41
          Alexey, thank you!!!!
          Happy New Year, all the best! hi
    2. +2
      2 January 2025 18: 37
      The key point here is whether the key enterprises have owners, roughly speaking, who profits from them. In Germany there was the Krupp family, and Alfried Krupp was quite justified, although in fact he was a natural beneficiary of the war - all of Germany is in ruins, and he made a profit, and was justified under the pretext that the guy was simply running a business, do not pay attention to the fact that he used slave labor of concentration camp prisoners. And so yes, there is conditional state capitalism, but it is fundamentally different - under capitalism, all the profit is received by a small handful of monopolists, who at the right moment jump off under the pretext that they are not involved, and remain the winner (of course, the people will be the ones to loosen up everything they left), under socialism, the whole society wins or loses, so it turned out that the partisan movement in the territories of the USSR was extremely fierce, and the Volkssturm naturally surrendered in droves.
    3. 0
      2 January 2025 23: 24
      You have asked a very interesting question. But it will be extremely difficult to find an answer to it. Some historians have done this and encountered considerable difficulties. But they have only reached the descriptive, contemplative part of the process. The motives remain unknown.
  12. -3
    2 January 2025 09: 37
    Quote: yuriy55
    Consumer goods, food industry can be developed comprehensively and the deficit can be replenished through the private sector. This is exactly what was done in the production of vegetables and fruits.

    What monstrous nonsense.
    The private sector cannot make up for the deficit of anything. Either capitalism or socialism. There is no third option. However, you can look out the window or go into a store and see that 90% of goods are produced by large enterprises, often international concerns with hundreds of thousands of workers and factories all over the world.
    1. +1
      2 January 2025 12: 24
      The private sector can produce a lot even with planning - it is only necessary to provide connecting information tools between the launching-working private sector - planners and large producers of something. So that through the planners large producers put into production those resources from which the private sector generates the product.
      In such a scenario, yes, some of the planners will have to deal with private individuals "below", one might say, "lead" them at the beginning of the launch of the "business", assessing their needs and giving recommendations (not mandatory for implementation) based on a certain picture of experience in the spheres being formed in the country. After all, there will be many such private individuals in positions and their "pre-order" will be approximately the same.

      In case of providing this connecting link - the private trader fits perfectly into the plan, socialism perfectly coexists with capitalism. After all, as the business develops, the private trader grows into a large customer for state enterprises and a stable niche supplier for the population, plugging the gaps in the supplies of large enterprises.
      In order that, in turn, it does not act as an overly active competitor of the latter, it can be limited (to one degree or another), but the whole question is whether it is NECESSARY to limit it, or it is possible to simply regulate its activity with taxes much more effectively, because non-tax restrictions can be circumvented much more cleverly, through gray schemes, the growth of the number of which creates a threat to the bar itself in principle. Deficit positions are molded by a private sector - it pays a minimum of taxes. If not - then taxes are raised to the level when a private sector coexists with a state enterprise in one proportion or another on the market. If we still play with this tool - we motivate or demotivate a private sector to go into know-how and increase attractiveness or reduce the price of products. One way or another, a private sector is useful for the bar, even a large private sector. But you need to BE ABLE and WANT to work with this.
  13. -5
    2 January 2025 09: 41
    Quote: AA17
    Optimizer of the RF Armed Forces - Anatoly Serdyukov (2007-2012)

    There is no need to include Serdyukov in this company.
    1. +1
      2 January 2025 13: 44
      There is no need to include Serdyukov in this company.


      Why?
      Explain.
  14. +4
    2 January 2025 09: 48
    Guys, you've had enough! A man writes about strategic things, the effect of which we've been feeling for 80 years now, sitting with the same light and gas. And you're all about blue hens and boots, don't you think it's petty?
  15. +2
    2 January 2025 10: 14
    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
    The first serious steps in Planning related to the economy were made during the First World War.

    Come on - how can you conduct any economic activity without planning? It is absolutely clear that this is not possible.
    The difference in planning in the USSR was in the goals of planning, and not at all in the means.
    And this goal was to satisfy the scientifically based needs of the individual, based on the principle of distribution of benefits - from each according to his ability - to each according to his work.
    But under capitalism, the principle is completely different: all profit goes to the owner of the means of production.
  16. -1
    2 January 2025 10: 22
    Quote: evgen1221
    Guys, you've had enough! A man writes about strategic things, the effect of which we've been feeling for 80 years now, sitting with the same light and gas. And you're all about blue hens and boots, don't you think it's petty?

    The author does not cover any strategic issues in the article - pseudoscientific nonsense.
    What is the purpose of planning? How do planning systems differ under capitalism and socialism?
    This is interesting, isn't it?
  17. +1
    2 January 2025 11: 50
    Quote: Dozorny_ severa
    What is the difference between planning systems under capitalism and socialism?


    Under capitalism it's the other way around. laughing
  18. -6
    2 January 2025 12: 13
    I expected another "neo-Stalinist propaganda", but you pleasantly surprised me, Dmitry! It turned out interesting, meaningful and at the same time without an avalanche of figures, although the figures would have been interesting, no doubt, but since the system was huge, it would have been possible to evaluate it within the framework of an article with figures only superficially.

    After WW1, GV and the devastation, of course, the first five-year plan exploded. There is a contrast effect here, on such an effect at one time the first Putin years caused fierce orgasms in many citizens I know. Because they saw VVP not as something independent, but as a person against the background of EBN, in contrast, firstly. And secondly, no matter where you stuck a shovel or how much sand you piled after EBN, everything looked like the Panama Canal and the Egyptian pyramids. The same thing - contrast.
    In contrast to the chaos, the first five-year plan looked (and, in fact, was) something epic, and this made the people, tired of the chaos, dizzy. Propaganda picked up on this quite effectively. The five-year plan also promised work and created movements, and, in general, this motivated those who were still capable of being motivated after the previous, ahem...adventures.

    The main thing here was that the state wanted to build and create AT LEAST SOMETHING. And it created a driving force and direction. Later, this was somewhat lost, because they lost the understanding of where to move (at the time of the devastation, this was crystal clear, but in some 70s, it was no longer so) and because the planning itself became significantly more complex (which those who sank OGAS stubbornly did not understand, which in turn proves the degradation of personnel in the plan by that time along the entire vertical).
    Planning was a great tool while development was expansive, but it became increasingly "weak" when development became extensive. Planners could calculate how many beds the population needed +-, they could even take into account approximate positions - sofas, double beds, couches, metal, wood, etc. But they could not take into account the features of greater convenience or attractiveness, or catch fashion trends in time. And "below" they might not have had the scope to take into account opinions (they did not provide for it from above) and resources for implementation, etc.
    Is it possible for the plan to take such things into account in principle? I think so, but for this we DEFINITELY need the broadest development of information technology. Some variations of pre-order, some analogue of the Internet. No, this could have been solved on the Soviet elementary basis - with distributed pre-order periodicals like magazines with concepts for pre-ordering products of various types, distributed to more or less large enterprises, libraries and clubs. But by the time the system could have pulled this off, there were already problems with paper and the system itself already had an obvious bureaucratic swamp that did not want to deal with this. "Did not want to." So we returned to the beginning - to the fact that the "desire" of the system to deal with issues was, is and will be the driving force of progress and change for the better. As in the expression: "If you want, you will find a thousand ways; if you don't want, you will find a thousand reasons."

    In the end, it was the DESIRE of the state that made the plan effective. If desired, not only the plan can be effective, but also ordinary capitalism - we can see this well in Roosevelt's exit from the Great Depression or the "Japanese economic miracle" after WW2. Or the Singapore economic miracle.
    If the system wants, it can. And if not, then no.
  19. +3
    2 January 2025 12: 31
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    The private sector can produce a lot even with planning - it is only necessary to provide connecting information tools between the launching-working private sector - planners and large producers of something. So that through the planners large producers put into production those resources from which the private sector generates the product.
    In such a scenario, yes, some of the planners will have to deal with private individuals "below", one might say, "lead" them at the beginning of the launch of the "business", assessing their needs and giving recommendations (not mandatory for implementation) based on a certain picture of experience in the spheres being formed in the country. After all, there will be many such private individuals in positions and their "pre-order" will be approximately the same.

    In case of providing this connecting link - the private trader fits perfectly into the plan, socialism perfectly coexists with capitalism. After all, as the business develops, the private trader grows into a large customer for state enterprises and a stable niche supplier for the population, plugging the gaps in the supplies of large enterprises.
    In order that, in turn, it does not act as an overly active competitor of the latter, it can be limited (to one degree or another), but the whole question is whether it is NECESSARY to limit it, or it is possible to simply regulate its activity with taxes much more effectively, because non-tax restrictions can be circumvented much more cleverly, through gray schemes, the growth of the number of which creates a threat to the bar itself in principle. Deficit positions are molded by a private sector - it pays a minimum of taxes. If not - then taxes are raised to the level when a private sector coexists with a state enterprise in one proportion or another on the market. If we still play with this tool - we motivate or demotivate a private sector to go into know-how and increase attractiveness or reduce the price of products. One way or another, a private sector is useful for the bar, even a large private sector. But you need to BE ABLE and WANT to work with this.

    To create high-quality products, you need a large industrial production facility - what other private enterprise?
    there is no clothing production, for example, without an economic basis in the form of a developed agricultural, chemical, weaving, metalworking and other industries. There were plenty of studios and private seamstresses in the USSR - whoever wanted it, ordered it.
    There were no economic problems in the USSR, rather the opposite. But now they exist and will continue to grow at an accelerated pace, since the scientific and industrial base of the USSR has been destroyed by 90%.
  20. +8
    2 January 2025 12: 53
    1. The Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) set the tasks for the five-year plan not in monetary terms, but in physical terms, because, for example, trade, tourism, etc. industries do not produce any material values ​​and do not contribute to industrialization, but only inflate the GDP indicator.
    2. Gosplan planned the implementation - how many of what enterprises should be built, what material and financial resources are required for this, what and how much should be sold abroad in order to purchase the necessary technologies and equipment with the proceeds from the currency.
    3. Finmin communicated to the main bank, and then to all its structural divisions, planned profit targets, the overfulfillment of which did not go into the pockets of shareholders, but to finance the five-year plan.

    Professor Katasonov described this in detail in his books “Stalin’s Economy”, “Stalin’s Industrialization: Import of Machinery and Equipment”, “Stalin’s Economy and the State Monopoly of Foreign Trade”.
  21. +5
    2 January 2025 14: 18
    In my opinion, the author failed to tell about the stated topic concisely and briefly. The general was drowned in the particulars.
    The planning system in the USSR was based on centralized management of the economy and used methods different from market mechanisms. The main aspects of this system's operation were:

    1. Centralized planning
    State planning: The USSR's economy was managed through centralized bodies such as the State Planning Committee (Gosplan), which developed five-year and annual plans.
    Five-year plans: The main planning instrument that set goals and objectives for all sectors of the economy over a five-year period. The plans included production volumes, resource allocation, and investment.
    2. Planned indicators
    Physical volumes: Plans were based on physical volumes of production and consumption rather than monetary values. Specific quantitative targets were set for various industries.
    Qualitative characteristics: In some cases, the qualitative characteristics of the products were also taken into account, but the main emphasis was on quantitative indicators.
    3. Inter-industry balance
    Inter-industry balance system (IBS): Used to analyze the relationships between different sectors of the economy. IBS helped identify the needs of some sectors for resources produced by others and ensured balanced development.
    Tables and Models: Planners used tables and mathematical models to represent economic relationships and interdependencies.
    4. Implementation of plans
    Control and reporting: The implementation of plans was controlled through a reporting system, where enterprises were required to provide data on the fulfillment of planned tasks.
    Penalties and incentives: Companies that failed to meet plans could be subject to sanctions, while successful companies received incentives.
    5. Government regulation
    Prices and wages: Prices for goods and services were set by the state, which excluded market pricing. Wages were also regulated centrally.
    Resource allocation: The state controlled the allocation of resources such as raw materials, supplies and labor.
    6. Problems and limitations
    Lack of flexibility: The centralized planning system was often unable to respond quickly to changes in supply and demand, resulting in shortages and surpluses.
    Artificial indicators: In order to fulfill plans, enterprises sometimes inflated indicators, which distorted the real picture of the economy.
    Restrictions on Innovation: The system constrained innovation and entrepreneurial activity because the emphasis was on meeting planned targets.
    The Soviet Union's planning system was complex and multi-level, providing centralized management of the economy. Despite its achievements in providing for the basic needs of the population and developing industry, it also faced serious problems that ultimately contributed to the economic difficulties and transition to market mechanisms in the post-Soviet period.

    The inter-industry balance system (IBS) in the USSR economy was an important tool for planning and managing the country's economy. It was a method used to analyze and coordinate the relationships between different sectors of the economy, as well as to ensure balanced development.

    The main aspects of the inter-industry balance system:
    Targets and goals:

    The system was intended to ensure efficient distribution of resources and coordination of production across industries.
    It helped to identify the needs of some industries for resources produced by others and ensured interdependence between them.
    Structure:

    The inter-industry balance system included tables that reflected the volumes of production, consumption and exchange of products between industries.
    The main components included data on gross output, intermediate consumption, final consumption and exports.
    Methodology:

    Methods of mathematical modeling and statistical analysis were used to construct models reflecting economic relations.
    The system took into account both material and financial flows between industries.
    Planning:

    The SMB served as the basis for developing five-year plans, allowing planners to take into account the needs of different sectors and adjust production volumes.
    She assisted in the allocation of labor, materials and capital investments.
    Problems and limitations:

    Despite its advantages, the system faced problems such as lack of flexibility and difficulty in responding to changes in supply and demand.
    Central planning sometimes resulted in imbalances and shortages in individual sectors.
    Impact on the economy:

    The inter-industry balance system contributed to a more efficient allocation of resources in a planned economy, but also limited innovation and adaptation to market conditions.
    With the collapse of the USSR and the transition to a market economy, many elements of SMEs lost their relevance, but the principles of inter-industry relationships continue to be used in modern economic research.

    The inter-industry balance system was an important element of economic planning in the USSR, ensuring coordination between industries and promoting more efficient use of resources. However, its limitations and problems in the rapidly changing economic environment became apparent in the last years of the Soviet Union.
    1. +1
      2 January 2025 14: 43
      You are presenting the methodology of the 60s, which, in my opinion, is a corruption of planning as such.
      1. +2
        2 January 2025 16: 02
        In my opinion, in the 60s the technology of the planning process developed, but goal-setting lost its leading role. The guidelines became blurred.
        1. 0
          2 January 2025 18: 35
          If there is no goal setting, then it is not a plan. A plan without a goal is pure absurdity.
          1. -1
            2 January 2025 18: 46
            Here we come to an absolutely insurmountable question - the reasons for the collapse of the USSR.
            Philosophically, the correct formulation of the task is half the success in achieving it. In many ways, the thought and idea of ​​socialism turned into dogma. Therefore, the operational plan and tasks existed, but the strategic vision ...
            "An aimless plan is pure absurdity." - a catchy play on words. A plan drawn up for the "wrong" goals is, unfortunately, a common occurrence in real life.
            But the range of issues related to the discussion of this matter goes far beyond the format of this resource.
            1. +2
              2 January 2025 18: 50
              The reason for the collapse of the USSR was banal cowardice.
              1. +1
                2 January 2025 19: 01
                If only the causes of complex phenomena could be found so easily.
              2. 0
                2 January 2025 23: 32
                The reason for the collapse of the USSR is Ukrainian nationalism, almost 2/3 of it is the main reason.
                The contribution of everything else is 30-50%. The economy could have been corrected and pulled up, to today's standard of living for sure. There was nothing impossible in every family having a car, as now.
    2. -1
      2 January 2025 18: 35
      I will add a very important aspect of the USSR economy closely connected with the planned economy:
      The two-circuit model of the USSR economy is a concept that describes the interaction of two main sectors of the economy: production and non-production. This model was used to analyze and plan economic activity in the conditions of a socialist economy.

      The main aspects of the two-loop model:
      Production circuit:

      Includes all branches of material production, such as industry, agriculture and construction.
      The main task of the production circuit is the creation of material goods and services necessary to meet the needs of the population and the economy.
      This circuit is used to plan production volumes, allocate resources and manage labor costs.
      Non-production circuit:

      It consists of the service sector, the social sphere and other non-production sectors such as education, health care, culture and management.
      The task of the non-production circuit is to ensure the life of the population, maintain public order and develop human capital.
      This sector also requires planning, but its performance is often not as easily quantified as in the production circuit.
      Interaction of contours:
      Interdependence: Both circuits are interconnected and dependent on each other. For example, the manufacturing sector creates goods that are then distributed through the non-manufacturing sector (trade, services).
      Resource provision: The production circuit provides the non-production circuit with resources such as food, clothing, housing, etc. In turn, the non-production circuit provides services necessary for the functioning of the production sector (education, health care).
      Planning and Coordination: For the dual-loop model to function effectively, coordinated planning is required to take into account the needs of both sectors.
      Problems and limitations:
      Imbalances: The interaction between the two circuits sometimes led to imbalances, with one sector growing faster than the other, causing shortages or surpluses in certain goods and services.
      Lack of flexibility: As with the input-output system, the dual-loop model suffered from a lack of flexibility, making it difficult to adapt to changes in consumer preferences and external conditions.
      Information distortion: Since planning was centralized, information about actual needs and production capabilities could be distorted, which also affected the efficiency of interactions between circuits.
      Conclusion:
      The two-loop model of the USSR economy was an important tool for understanding and planning economic activity in a socialist economy. Despite its shortcomings, it helped organize the interaction between the production and non-production sectors, which was critical for ensuring the stability and development of the economy as a whole.

      The two-circuit model of the USSR economy had several positive aspects that contributed to the functioning and development of the economy under the socialist system.

      Systems approach: The model allowed the economy to be viewed as a holistic system, where production and non-production circuits are interconnected. This facilitated more targeted planning and coordination of actions between different sectors.

      Centralized Planning: Central planning ensured that resources could be allocated according to government priorities, thereby avoiding the chaos and competition that characterize a market economy. This ensured stability and predictability in economic activity.

      Social focus: The non-production circuit, covering the sphere of services, education and health care, contributed to improving the quality of life of the population and developing human capital. This ensured access to education, health services and social protection.

      Reducing Inequality: The model promoted a more equal distribution of resources and benefits, which helped reduce social inequality and ensure the basic needs of the population.

      Integration of industries: The interrelationship between the manufacturing and non-manufacturing sectors facilitated the integration of various industries. This allowed for more efficient use of resources and the achievement of synergies.

      Maintaining stability: The two-circuit model ensured the stability of the economic system, which was especially important in the face of external and internal challenges, such as economic crises or wars.

      Sustainable Development: With its emphasis on planning and control, the model allowed for a more effective consideration of long-term needs and goals, which contributed to the sustainable development of the economy.

      Focus on public needs: The model was oriented towards satisfying public needs, which allowed for more precise determination of priorities in the production and distribution of goods.

      These positive aspects contributed to the fact that the two-circuit model remained an important tool for organizing economic activity in the USSR, despite its limitations and shortcomings.
      1. +2
        2 January 2025 18: 53
        Now you can read both the first and second five-year plans. They are available both on Istmat and on the RSL website. Documents reflecting the state and structure of the economy.
        So, there is neither the first nor the second circuit there.
        And I also read a whole series of reporting documents from construction trusts. And there is neither the first nor the second circuit there either.

        I just can’t figure out what the point is in holding on to a fiction that isn’t supported by a single document from that era?
        1. 0
          2 January 2025 20: 02
          Quote: wehr
          So, there is neither the first nor the second circuit there.

          This is a conditional "contouring", the point here is that
          Quote: balabol
          Non-production circuit, covering the sphere of services, education and health care

          Had planning methods other than production, that's all
          1. +1
            2 January 2025 20: 28
            There wasn't even any conventional "contouring".

            Is this health care and education non-productive? How much will a sick and illiterate worker produce? Strumilin proved back in 1924 that a worker's education has a direct impact on increasing his output and calculated that state funding of education is beneficial.

            Do not carry nonsense!
            1. 0
              3 January 2025 01: 23
              Quote: wehr
              Do not carry nonsense!

              No need to be rude, it won't make you smarter.
              Quote: wehr
              Is this health care and education - non-productive?

              Naturally. If you are going to discuss a certain topic, take the trouble to master at least the basics at the level of basic terminology. The non-production sphere is all sectors of the economy that do not produce material goods. That is, the entire service sector (a service is a product whose production and consumption coincide in time), etc.
              1. 0
                3 January 2025 12: 07
                You have made a typical mistake of a person who does not understand the close relationship between industries. It is not always obvious. Without the non-production sphere, production will not work. And those who did not understand this got serious problems.

                Well, terminology is either essentially incorrect and disorienting, or misunderstood.
                1. 0
                  3 January 2025 16: 29
                  Quote: wehr
                  You have made the typical mistake of a person who does not understand the close relationship between industries.

                  I have no mistakes. You have mistakes, because you, without having an economic education and without having mastered its conceptual apparatus, are trying to judge the economy.
                  At the same time, you try to compensate for your illiteracy by labeling and being rude.
                  For example, what happened just now?


                  Quote: wehr
                  Well, terminology is either essentially incorrect and disorienting, or misunderstood.

                  In your case, we have exactly the third problem - you misunderstand the term "non-production sphere" and instead of finding out what this term means, you began to interpret it yourself. And your interpretation, of course, is completely illiterate, because in your opinion, the non-production sphere is a sphere that has no relation to production at all. If you had taken the trouble to think, you would have understood that such spheres simply do not exist. Economics is a very comprehensive thing.
                  But the non-production sphere in the USSR had different goals, tasks and planning methods from the production one, which allows us to speak of it as a second circuit. Or not a circuit, any word can be used here.
                  1. 0
                    3 January 2025 19: 31
                    When someone starts to rudely teach me life lessons, I usually have a lot of fun. laughing
                    What achievements do you have to speak like that?

                    Now here's a trick question. Why did every factory in the USSR try to build its own Palace of Culture, its own Holiday Home, etc. non-production facilities?
                    You won't answer this question correctly.
                    1. 0
                      3 January 2025 23: 13
                      Quote: wehr
                      When someone starts to rudely teach me life lessons, I usually have a lot of fun.

                      I recommend reading the sources to find out who is laughing for no reason.
                      My first message did not contain any hint of rudeness or personal attacks.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      This is a conditional "contouring", the point here is that
                      Quote: balabol
                      Non-production circuit, covering the sphere of services, education and health care

                      Had planning methods other than production, that's all

                      You could have not responded to it, you could have entered into a polite dialogue, but no... In response, you gave a rude
                      Quote: wehr
                      Do not carry nonsense!

                      And illiterate
                      Quote: wehr
                      Is this health care and education - non-productive?

                      remark. Well, that's just how Senka wants it. You chose this manner of communication yourself, so there's no need to include "and why me?"
                      Quote: wehr
                      What achievements do you have to speak like that?

                      I have no achievements. But due to having a higher economic education in the specialty of "economic and social planning", a quarter of a century of work in the specialty from an ordinary economist to the director of economics and finance of rather large factories (up to 6 people) and in connection with the success of my efforts to pull a couple of city-forming enterprises out of a pre-bankruptcy state, I have some understanding of economics from a scientific and applied point of view.
                      Quote: wehr
                      Why did every factory in the USSR try to build its own Palace of Culture, its own Holiday Home, etc. non-production facilities?
                      You won't answer this question correctly.

                      Well, first of all, as we just found out, there can be at least two answers to a question: the correct one, and the one that seems right to you. And these answers do not coincide:)))
                      If we are talking about the early USSR during Stalin's time, then cultural centers were an important means of accustoming yesterday's peasants to urban culture, as well as an alternative to drunkenness. In essence, we can say that cultural centers and other facilities were part of the state cultural and educational work. In addition, subsequently, own kindergartens and other facilities became a competitive advantage in attracting young specialists and retaining personnel.
                      Quote: wehr
                      And now the question on the backfill.

                      And the trick question will be this. Why do you, instead of sticking to the subject of the discussion, start jumping, like an untrained flea, to questions that have nothing to do with it? If you want to continue, start by answering the question asked.
                      1. 0
                        3 January 2025 23: 25
                        Okay, which factories exactly did you pull out?
                        You can in PM.

                        I have encountered many times aggressive chatter that was not supported by any evidence.

                        The answer about the Houses of Culture is incorrect. As expected.

                        If you really are a director or were one, then it is clear why Russia still cannot get rich. laughing
                      2. 0
                        4 January 2025 00: 24
                        Quote: wehr
                        The answer about the Houses of Culture is incorrect. As expected.

                        As I said
                        \
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Well, first of all, as we just found out, there can be at least two answers to a question: the correct one, and the one that seems right to you. And these answers do not coincide:)))

                        Otherwise, I asked a specific question.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And the trick question will be this. Why do you, instead of sticking to the subject of the discussion, start jumping, like an untrained flea, to questions that have nothing to do with it? If you want to continue, start by answering the question asked.

                        It is obvious that you do not want to continue. More precisely, you cannot, because if you move on to specifics you will immediately sit in a puddle once again.
                        Quote: wehr
                        Okay, which factories exactly did you pull out?

                        Maybe I should also reset my work record?:)))) I have already introduced myself so that you have an idea of ​​who you are talking to. And so that you understand that it is I who should be asking you who you are and what your merits are. And not you me. Forgive me, the front part of your skull is not made for such requests.
                      3. 0
                        4 January 2025 00: 39
                        Quote: wehr
                        The answer about the Houses of Culture is incorrect. As expected.

                        By the way, the fact that you said I was wrong, but were afraid to give the answer that you thought would be correct, also says a lot about you.
                      4. 0
                        4 January 2025 12: 28
                        Do you think that if you yell here, everyone will be scared and admit that you are right? laughing

                        Hehe hehe laughing
                      5. 0
                        4 January 2025 14: 32
                        Quote: wehr
                        Do you think that if you yell here, everyone will be scared and admit that you are right?

                        I think the conversation has completely exhausted itself - I can't squeeze anything out of you on the essence of the matter. So - farewell. I will miss you - and with joy.
          2. -1
            3 January 2025 00: 10
            It is impossible to seriously discuss fundamental economic issues in the comments. However, for a "warm-up", a certain remark about an interesting aspect lying on the surface concerning the two-circuit system - cash and non-cash rubles.

            In the two-circuit economy of the USSR, cash and non-cash rubles played an important role in the functioning of the economic system, providing various mechanisms for settlements and managing financial flows. Here are the main tasks of cash and non-cash rubles in this model:
            Cash rubles
            Function of the medium of circulation: Cash rubles were used for everyday settlements between citizens and in the service sector. They provided the opportunity to make small purchases, pay for services and other transactions at the household level.
            Limited Opportunities: Under centralized planning and distribution of goods, cash was not always necessary for large transactions, as many goods were distributed through state-owned stores and institutions. This limited the role of cash in the economy.
            Cash transactions: Cash was used in cash transactions of enterprises and institutions, which made it possible to make payments to employees and suppliers at the local farm level.

            Cash controls: Government authorities exercised strict controls over cash, which helped prevent speculation and the black market, but limited the freedom of financial transactions of the population.

            Non-cash rubles
            Settlement system: Non-cash rubles were used for settlements between state enterprises, institutions and organizations. This allowed for faster settlement processes and reduced the need for cash.
            Planned allocation of resources: Non-cash payments were an important tool for central planning, as they allowed the state to control financial flows and the allocation of resources between different sectors of the economy.
            Banking system: The USSR had a developed system of state banks that carried out non-cash payments, lending and cash flow management. This ensured the stability of the financial system and control over the economy.
            Limited Opportunities for the Population: The population had limited access to non-cash payments, as the banking system mainly served state enterprises and institutions. This limited opportunities for individual entrepreneurs and individuals.
            Stimulating production: Non-cash rubles were used to finance government programs and projects, which contributed to the development of the manufacturing sector and the fulfillment of plans.
            Cash and non-cash rubles in the two-circuit economy of the USSR performed different functions and ensured interaction between the production and non-production sectors. Cash rubles ensured everyday settlements, while non-cash rubles played a key role in centralized planning and management of economic processes. Both types of money were important for the functioning of the economy, although they had their own limitations and features of use.

            What did the impossibility of transferring non-cash rubles into cash circulation mean for the USSR economy?
            The impossibility of the flow of non-cash rubles into cash circulation in the USSR economy had several key consequences:
            Positive aspects:
            Inflation control: The ban on converting non-cash rubles into cash helped control inflation. This reduced the likelihood of speculative transactions and instability of money circulation.
            Planning and centralized control: Non-cash rubles were used mainly for settlements between state enterprises, which allowed the state to plan and control the distribution of resources more effectively. This contributed to the implementation of economic plans and tasks.
            Financial system stability: The inability to convert non-cash rubles into cash created a more predictable financial environment, allowing government agencies to better manage cash flows and avoid sharp fluctuations in the economy.
            Prevention of Speculation: This mechanism limited the scope for speculative transactions since cash was strictly controlled and its use was limited.
            Negative aspects:
            Restriction of financial freedom: The impossibility of converting non-cash rubles into cash limited the financial freedom of citizens and entrepreneurs. This created difficulties for individual entrepreneurs and reduced opportunities for doing business.
            Inefficiency in resource allocation: Non-cash payments were mainly limited to state-owned enterprises, sometimes resulting in inefficient resource allocation and lack of flexibility in responding to market needs.
            Lack of incentives to save: Citizens could not freely transfer their savings from non-cash to cash, which reduced incentives to save and invest funds.
            Underutilization of the banking system: Limited access to non-cash payments for the population reduced the level of financial literacy and trust in the banking system, which could hinder the development of financial institutions.

            The impossibility of the flow of non-cash rubles into cash circulation in the USSR created certain advantages in terms of control and planning, but also led to significant restrictions in the area of ​​financial freedom and the efficiency of economic processes. This reflected the peculiarities of a centralized economy, where state mechanisms played a dominant role in the management of cash flows and resources.
            In the USSR, there were different prices for goods and services in cash and non-cash rubles for several reasons related to the peculiarities of the planned economy and the mechanisms of the financial system:
            1. Differences in calculations and mechanisms:
            Cash: Prices in cash rubles often reflected the cost of goods and services available to the end consumer. These prices were set at the level of local shops and businesses and were more sensitive to supply and demand in specific circumstances.
            Non-cash payments: Prices in non-cash rubles were used in payments between state enterprises and institutions. These prices were often fixed and controlled by government agencies, which made it possible to avoid fluctuations associated with market factors.
            2. State pricing policy:
            Under centralized planning, the state set different price levels for cash and non-cash payments depending on economic goals. This allowed inflation to be controlled and economic stability to be ensured.
            Non-cash prices could be lower to stimulate production processes and maintain production levels in state-owned enterprises.
            3. Limitations and shortages:
            Cash in the USSR was often used in conditions of shortages of goods, which led to inflated prices for them. While non-cash payments could be used for more stable and predictable transactions between enterprises, which allowed for lower prices.
            Price differences also reflected existing shortages and queues for goods, with cash becoming more "valuable" in the face of shortages.
            4. Stimulation of production:
            Different prices could be used to stimulate production of certain goods. For example, lower non-cash prices for raw materials could encourage increased production in state-owned enterprises.
            Conclusion
            Differences in prices of goods and services in cash and non-cash rubles in the USSR were due to many factors, including the mechanisms of the planned economy, state pricing policy, shortages of goods, and the characteristics of consumer behavior. These differences reflected the complex and controlled nature of the economy, where prices were not always determined by market mechanisms.
            1. -1
              3 January 2025 12: 08
              Let us prove that the two "contours" actually existed as financial documents of that time.
              1. 0
                3 January 2025 13: 18
                Let's prove that there was no cash and non-cash ruble circuit in finance and different prices for the same product in these calculations.
                It's a kindergarten, for God's sake.
                Spending time preparing serious materials within the comments to an article on an Internet resource? This is paid work.
                1. 0
                  3 January 2025 15: 20
                  Excuse me, but why are you then broadcasting about something you cannot prove? Are these fairy tales for the gullible?
                  I will make an article on this issue in a while.
                  1. 0
                    3 January 2025 15: 54
                    Dmitry,
                    Sorry, but you still haven’t responded to my comments in any concrete way, other than the suggestion to read the five-year plans.
                    And this is a childish attempt at manipulation "to dare" - to oblige to prove every word here on the site. According to the text of your article there are a lot of ambiguous and very dubious statements, to put it mildly.
                    BUT! This is a non-binding site and you are probably making money here. (You have many articles on the resource).
                    I am not against it, write what and how you consider acceptable, earn money. As Mr. Shpakovsky says, if you don't like it, don't read it. I looked, added comments, but I have neither time nor desire for more. I already know this, and those who don't want to accept my words are completely free to make their own choice. Thank you for the conversation, goodbye.
                    1. 0
                      3 January 2025 16: 03
                      To object specifically means to do it in detail. This requires some time and effort.

                      But I just can't understand how you can insist on the existence of something that you can't confirm? Just - look there, I would go and look to see for myself.
                      1. 0
                        3 January 2025 17: 23
                        Here, for example, regarding two price lists. Fact, without analysis of how it was calculated. Actually, this was one of my arguments about two contours. One is the consumer market with the social sphere, and the other is industry, production of means of production. Two price systems, cash and non-cash rubles. Connected but not flowing directly. I don’t know if you had experience in calculating R&D in Soviet times, but non-cash prices were completely different. Significantly lower. They recorded (one can say very conditionally) labor intensity * qualification. The main thing in them was the RATIO, and not the absolute value. Natural indicators were the main ones, rubles were secondary, as an integral indicator. And of course rubles as an accounting instrument in finance (again, different). The flow was strictly controlled by balancing cash on the market with inventory on the consumer market.
                        Example:
                        A.A. Deryabin
                        "Some episodes from history
                        "Soviet pricing"

                        In the early 30s, the organization became more clear.
                        pricing. The Council of Labor and Defense (STO) established
                        wholesale prices for heavy industry products, Committee
                        commodity funds and trade regulation under the STO - for consumer goods. People's Commissariats approved detailed price lists for specific goods, their grades, brands,
                        categories, etc.
                        In 1928, a major innovation in the state appeared
                        pricing. This refers to the introduction of a system of two price lists. This system was first adopted in the textile industry. Then it gradually spread to other
                        industries (metal industry, silicate industry,
                        forestry and woodworking, etc.). The meaning of the system of two
                        price lists was that according to the first price list (prices
                        enterprises) syndicates settled with the enterprises that were part of them. These prices were differentiated by enterprises
                        depending on the level of expenses. According to the second price list (prices
                        industry) syndicates sold products to trade
                        organizations and other consumers. The system of two price lists
                        existed until 1935. But the very idea of ​​two price lists did not
                        was forgotten.
                        ...
                        In 1939, the system of two price lists was recreated in light
                        industry. But unlike the previous one, in which prices
                        The first price list was aimed at ensuring the profitable operation of enterprises with significant differences
                        in costs, in the new system the prices of the first price list were reflected
                        already the average industry cost of specific types of products,
                        and the prices of the second are the consumer properties of fabrics, shoes, etc.
                        The retail price system received a clearly expressed social orientation. Thus, relatively low prices were
                        were established for goods that satisfied rational needs. These included, for example, publishing products,
                        primarily textbooks and teaching aids for all types
                        educational institutions. The low level was deliberately maintained
                        prices for children's products. It was established that
                        that children's clothing and footwear were to be made only
                        from natural raw materials (cotton, flax, leather, wool). The purchase of sanitary and hygiene items was encouraged by low prices. And, of course, there were very low prices for medicines.
                        On the contrary, relatively high prices were for the model
                        shoes and clothes, luxury items, delicacies of all kinds,
                        jewelry made of precious metals, etc.
                      2. 0
                        3 January 2025 17: 26
                        V. Yu. Katasonov describes it simply and clearly:
                        The non-cash ruble was a conventional unit used to calculate all costs of living and embodied labor. Accounting was kept of production costs, cost price of products, labor productivity, return on assets, etc. The profit indicator was secondary. Rather, they monitored to ensure that there were no losses (although there were many planned loss-making enterprises). Bankruptcies of enterprises were not allowed. Cost indicators were some kind of benchmarks, with the help of which ways to improve the efficiency of individual enterprises, industries, and the entire economy were found (for example, through adjustment of wholesale prices).

                        Non-cash emission of the State Bank was carried out on the basis of the country's credit plan, which was linked to the general national economic plan and the state budget. In 1931-1935, the increase in non-cash money supply as a result of the emission of the State Bank amounted to 5,2 billion rubles, its volume during this time increased by 2,25 times. The bulk of non-cash rubles was directed to capital investments (construction of new, expansion of capacities and reconstruction of existing enterprises). Thus, as of January 1, 1938, credit investments of the State Bank of the USSR in the national economy amounted to 40,7 billion rubles. These investments were covered by 14,5 billion rubles (35,3%) by attracted funds of the economy in accounts in the bank, by 12,8 billion rubles (31,2%) - by budget funds. And the remaining 13,6 billion rubles (approximately 1/3 of all credit investments of the State Bank) were the result of the emission. Considering that the State Bank was actually a division of the People's Commissariat of Finance, additional money emission can be considered as a means of covering the state budget deficit. New loans from the State Bank were issued for specific projects, the return on which was expected in future periods. A certain analogy can be found in today's scheme of so-called "project financing" (a loan secured not by property, but by a project that can provide cash income in the future); such "advance", unsecured lending in the conditions of a "market economy" is considered extremely risky. Of course, in the Stalinist economy there were more than once failures in the delivery of projects and the return of funds on loans. But such failures did not lead to defaults of either enterprises or the state. They were quickly stopped by maneuvering the state's financial resources.

                        The second circuit of money circulation (the turnover of cash rubles) was intended to serve the population. The turnover was carried out mainly through the cash desks of state and cooperative enterprises and organizations (wages of employees, pensions, scholarships and social benefits), through the cash desks of retail stores, through the cash desks of the State Bank of the USSR, savings banks of the Ministry of Finance of the USSR, etc. The State Bank of the USSR issued cash on the basis of plans. Since 1930, the State Bank of the USSR began to compile cash plans in conjunction with the balances of cash income and cash expenditure of the population and the cash plans of enterprises. Planning of money circulation ceased to be limited to a general determination of the amount of money in circulation and its indirect regulation. It became direct and covered the main flows of cash circulation, which were reduced mainly to cash payments for wages, for procurements and from collective farm accounts, as well as to the return of this money through the retail network and through financial measures of the state (taxes, bond loans).

                        The main task of the State Planning Committee, the People's Commissariat of Finance and the State Bank was to maintain the purchasing power of the cash ruble, to prevent its depreciation and inflationary growth of prices in the consumer goods market. During the years of the first five-year plan, there was an accelerated increase in the mass of cash money, which lagged behind the saturation of the market with consumer goods. The situation stabilized in 1932-33. Despite some depreciation of the cash ruble, the real income of citizens increased significantly during the years of industrialization.

                        The fundamental feature of the system was that very strong barriers were put up between the non-cash and cash circuits of money circulation. Enterprises were allowed to convert into cash only those amounts that were necessary for paying wages. Also, travel expenses and some other small things. Over the decades of the existence of the two-circuit monetary system, cases of illegal "cashing" in the USSR can be counted on the fingers. Were there thefts of socialist property? There were. But 99% of all thefts were of such types of property as raw materials, unaccounted industrial products ("workshops"), agricultural products, goods in the retail network, etc. There were (though rare) attacks on cashiers in stores and even collectors, and cash was stolen. But stealing non-cash money by converting it into cash was more difficult than robbing Fort Knox, where the gold from the US reserve is kept. Even if some tiny “leaks” from the non-cash circulation circuit did occur, those who received the cash had no chance of purchasing means of production with it.
                      3. 0
                        3 January 2025 18: 46
                        Galushka A.S., Niyazmetov A.K., Okulov M.O.
                        Crystal of growth to the Russian economic miracle. - M., 2021. - 360 p., ill.

                        The credit reform is being carried out under the leadership of the Minister of Finance Grigory Fedorovich Grinko, who previously worked as Deputy Chairman of the State Planning Committee and Deputy Chairman of the Commission for the Preparation of the First Five-Year Plan, one of the ideologists of the new system.
                        state planning, deeply - in detail - versed in the planned program of economic transformation, the author of a programmatic article on the implementation
                        the first five-year plan.
                        As a result of the credit reform, the monetary system is subordinated to the tasks of economic growth. Two
                        isolated from each other contours of money - cash
                        and non-cash. The non-cash monetary circuit ensures settlements between enterprises and the necessary long-term financing of capital investments in advanced
                        creation of means of production, cash money circuit—payments of the population and retail turnover.
                        It was shown earlier that for the planning system the primary and main indicators are natural ones.
                        Planning in physical terms allows us to give
                        a reliable balance sheet assessment of resource adequacy
                        and to link them together. Thus,
                        as a result of balanced planning, the “physical” feasibility of capital investment projects is ensured, and non-cash money performs accounting
                        and the calculation function.
                        The most important institution of long-term banks is being created
                        investments. Four supporting banks of long-term investments are launched:
                        — Prombank finances capital investments in industry;
                        — Agricultural Bank finances capital investments in agriculture;
                        — Vsekobank (later — Torgbank) finances capital investments in trade
                        and cooperatives (except housing cooperatives);
                        — Tsekombank finances capital investments in housing and utilities
                        and cultural and domestic construction, as well as in the complex construction of new cities and towns.
                        Long-term investment banks, when financing capital investments, carry out
                        control over the use of money. "On the basis of plans approved in the established manner, special banks exercise control over the use of funds allocated by them for their intended purpose in accordance with the actual progress of work
                        Settlement between two enterprises in cash is not possible. Non-cash
                        and the cash circuit are isolated from each other, except for the payment
                        enterprise wages, travel expenses, etc.
                        The state ensures that the emission of cash corresponds to the volume of commodity
                        masses. For this purpose, a cash plan is drawn up and implemented.
                        The Central Bank (Central Bank), which is a single issuing center
                        of the country, in the course of credit and settlement and cash services, carries out operational regulation of money circulation. "The concentration in the <Central Bank> of non-cash settlements, covering almost the entire payment turnover of the country, and the strict limitation of the sphere of circulation of cash money made it possible to move
                        to cash planning, i.e. to direct planning of money circulation.
                        The development of cash planning played a major role in ensuring the stability of the <ruble>»
                      4. 0
                        3 January 2025 19: 38
                        These are all interpretations.
                        And you give me a financial document from that time, in which the existence of two “contours” would be clearly recorded.

                        The thing is, I read genuine accounting reports a number of enterprises of the pre-war and wartime periods (for example, Soyuzteplostroy), and there were no two "contours" reflected there. If "contours" existed, they would certainly be reflected in accounting, separately for non-cash and separately for cash rubles.
                        In light of this, the assertions about “contours” are a banal deception.
                      5. 0
                        3 January 2025 21: 10
                        I don't know what documents you studied, but I calculated the feasibility study for R & D myself. The cost of material support in non-cash rubles and special tables. Separately, the Salary Fund - this was issued in cash. This money could not flow from one item to another. It was impossible to get a wad of cash instead of a machine. The cost of a number of goods by non-cash simply caused laughter. A liter of rectified alcohol 96% - kopecks (vodka 1/2 liter - 3 rubles 62 kopecks). Gold 999 assay value is several times cheaper than jewelry in a store. Construction materials are also very different. The element base in the form of transistors and similar products could also be compared with stores and were more expensive in stores. It is clear that special equipment was not sold on the market and had no cash price in principle.
                      6. 0
                        3 January 2025 21: 25
                        You, like many others, confuse selling prices with retail prices, the latter of which had various markups for the profit of commodity-transfer and trading enterprises. Or discounts, since the count was based on the final, retail price.

                        Yes, MFUA. Economist.
                      7. 0
                        3 January 2025 21: 51
                        1. No, I'm not confused.
                        2. "These are all interpretations." - have you looked at the links to the original sources in the materials provided and do you consider them incorrect or the conclusions drawn from them incorrect? Or do you not consider the authors indicated competent?

                        I suggest we finish. I will definitely not provide you with copies of government decrees and primary business records with accounting rules. The issue is clear to me. I don't have the energy to discuss it with you in more detail.
                      8. 0
                        3 January 2025 21: 56
                        Let's start with the fact that I saw almost no primary sources there. And they are freely available on the Internet: five-year plans with financial parts, state budgets for certain years.
                        If there are no such primary sources, then what kind of correctness and validity of conclusions can we talk about?
                      9. 0
                        3 January 2025 21: 13
                        Let me ask you a question. (You don’t have to answer.) Do you have a specialized economic education?
  22. -1
    2 January 2025 14: 35
    Development is a man-made crisis, a sharp distortion of all previously existing proportions, a sharp conflict, turning out pockets and forced labor. This is the only way to do something that never existed before, and in the shortest possible time.
    Such "planners" should be trampled underfoot until they understand that development is a constant and regular process, and not a crisis (or they die).
    Secondly, the plan is based on a volitional principle, and its failure to fulfill, as can be judged from a number of publications that reflect this conviction of planners, is primarily due to insufficient will.
    You are a historian - look into the amount of defects during the first five-year plans. And the amount of padding at the same time. They wasted a lot of resources and all because some wrote down in the plan what they wanted, and not what could be done, and others lied in their reports.
    Strong leaders just did a somersault, overfulfilling the plan.
    These are not the strong, these are the sneaky. I repeat, the results of the first five-year plan were shockingly disappointing, the results of the second - depressing. Then - it got better, apparently the optimists were shot, and those who remained began to write the results of calculations, and not their own or other people's wishes.
    With today's technology, such calculations would be done easily and simply.
    ERP is not a panacea, but a helper. An example is orders for microchips before the pandemic: those who ordered at the last minute, as calculated by ERP, were left without microchips (the automotive industry), and Apple ordered "all the money" and made a lot of money during the pandemic and the earthquake in Taiwan. Although ERP advises to minimize warehouse stocks.
    1. +4
      2 January 2025 14: 45
      As a historian, I was interested. Firstly, there was an open position of the management: "Yes, we will break the machines, but at least we will master them." Secondly, then there was a technical minimum for workers.

      Now it's your turn to prove the "shockingly disappointing" results of the first five-year plan. I wonder what they were "shockingly disappointing" about?
      1. 0
        2 January 2025 16: 54
        Quote: wehr
        I wonder what they were "shockingly disappointing" about?
        The USSR First Five-Year Plan was adopted in May 1929 by the V Congress of Soviets and "refined" (towards increasing all planned targets) in 1930, after the XVI Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks). Results of the Five-Year Plan: Electricity - 22 GW planned/13,5 GW actually produced, pig iron - 10 million tons/6,2 million tons, tractors - 130 thousand units/48,9 thousand units, automobiles - 200 thousand units/23,9 thousand units. So, although, compared to the beginning of the Five-Year Plan, a truly impressive one and a half to two, or even three to five times growth was achieved for most indicators, in reality the planned targets were not achieved. Planned.
        1. +1
          2 January 2025 18: 33
          Yes, that happened. It happened that plans were significantly underfulfilled. And then there were new industries that didn't exist before, construction projects whose progress could only be predicted approximately.
  23. +3
    2 January 2025 15: 27
    Quote: Luminman
    There was a long waiting list to join the Nazi Party and Hitler even gave a special order to accept former communists into the party first.

    It smells like Ogonyok magazine from the 90s...
    1. +1
      2 January 2025 17: 34
      It smells like Ogonyok magazine from the 90s...
      The resolution was adopted long before 1933. One of the initiators of the priority admission to the party died in Spandau prison in 1987... wink
  24. -1
    2 January 2025 15: 31
    Quote: AA17
    There is no need to include Serdyukov in this company.


    Why?
    Explain.

    Research the issue yourself and then share your opinion.
  25. 0
    2 January 2025 15: 34
    Quote: bk0010
    Then things got better, apparently the optimists were shot, and those who remained began to write down the results of calculations, and not their own or other people’s wishes.

    I agree with the thesis - many projectors were shot, it’s a pity not all of them.
    With this method of combating falsifications and project-mongering, as under Stalin, the ministries and departments of the modern Russian Federation have become depopulated.
  26. +2
    2 January 2025 15: 45
    Quote: balabol
    Lack of flexibility: The centralized planning system was often unable to respond quickly to changes in supply and demand, resulting in shortages and surpluses.

    This is not a planning problem. Demand in a capitalist society is created by producers, with the aim of increasing profits - it does not arise spontaneously. The consciousness of the masses is constantly exposed to the influence of advertising - which permeates the entire life of an individual in a capitalist society. In the conditions of expanding access to information, the USSR could no longer objectively resist this pressure. The complex of Elochka the Cannibal has taken hold in the public consciousness in the form of rejection of nationally produced goods. Now the situation is even worse.
  27. -1
    2 January 2025 23: 10
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    Domestic chicken lost the competition to broilers completely. Domestic chicken is tough, has a lot of fat and little meat. In broilers it is the opposite.

    They only chop up chickens for roasts, chickens for jellied meat and soup... - a teacher has been found... where are you even coming from?
  28. 0
    3 January 2025 00: 36
    Thanks for posting!

    From the grassroots level...
    There is a plan for the manufacture of part of the device by fitters. The fitters will then receive a certain amount of money for each unit installed. It needs to be standardized. How to standardize?
    We take the installer, place a part of the device in front of him and turn on the stopwatch.
    Four hours. The fitter didn't pick his nose, took a 2-minute break every 10 hours. Didn't sweat, but didn't look out the window either. Everything according to the rules. Four rubles. That's two per shift.
    We start producing.
    From three to six per shift. Everyone comes up with their own speed-ups. After the 20th, the plan is overfulfilled. The materials are gone. The fitters are at their work stations. If they are handy and the management accepts this, then at government expense and government electricity they do something for themselves and their neighbors. If the management does not accept this... They read, draw something, some write that they were not provided with work. Writers are an exception.
    So how do I fit all this into the plan?
    1. 0
      3 January 2025 12: 10
      This is exactly what the counter plan was for. wink
  29. 0
    3 January 2025 00: 45
    Quote: Dozorny_ severa
    Quote: Luminman
    There was a long waiting list to join the Nazi Party and Hitler even gave a special order to accept former communists into the party first.

    It smells like Ogonyok magazine from the 90s...


    Lookout from the North, good day to you!
    Do printed products smell different?
    Does it depend on the year and edition?
    In your north, can you have your own opinion? Can you want strawberries, cherries and fried potatoes with chanterelles in January?
    It's not about what you commented, but about how you commented.
    Adversaries and surrogates come and go. And journalists can adapt.
    And magazines and newspapers... They stay with us. With readers. Just like VO.

    And about you and commentators like me.
  30. 0
    3 January 2025 01: 02
    Planning should be a part of life. Not only of states, but of everyone.
    Tomorrow after breakfast, go to the stream, count how many ducks are swimming, come back, charge the camera battery.
    If I don't do it, I won't have lunch.
    Something like this.
  31. 0
    3 January 2025 01: 02
    Yes, with today's thieves, only execution will save society from such scoundrels, pests, and parasites.
  32. +1
    4 January 2025 09: 14
    Great article. Thanks to the author.
  33. The comment was deleted.