The Airbuses have landed firmly, the Superjets have not taken off. Only heads are flying so far

Apparently, in the near future we will be moving around the country exclusively by cars and buses. What is happening on Russian roads is a story for the very near future, but today we have airplanes. And not combat ones, but passenger ones. And with them everything is much sadder than with combat ones.

Soon we will have nothing to fly on. The regional transportation sector is practically dead, the fact that from Chelyabinsk to Tyumen, from Stavropol to Makhachkala, from Chita to Irkutsk we have to fly via Moscow is a given.

Here is the flight schedule from Chelyabinsk as proof.

Please note that if you remove the capitals and Sochi, the resort capital of Russia, then, in fact, Krasnoyarsk, Osh and Dushanbe are still not considered regional, but, if you believe the media, they are working hard on this in the Chelyabinsk region.

But we have a market, airlines must earn money, after all, we do not have the Soviet times of galoshes and blue chickens, when you could fly anywhere at the expense of the state, which subsidized regional flights. Today we will fly not where we need to, but where it is profitable for the airline.

However, this charm of speed may not be there either. What we warned about back in 2021 and 2022 has begun: the mass withdrawal of imported aircraft from service has begun. As of today, 34 of the 66 Airbus A320neo and A321neo aircraft have been withdrawn from service, and most likely, most of them will not return to flight.

The airline S7 suffered the most, it has grounded 31 of 39 A320/A321neo aircraft. It can be said that only S7 has flown, but this is definitely the first swallow. There will be more to come.

The main reason is the lack of spare parts and full-fledged engine maintenance, American Pratt & Whitney and French Leap. All the talk about how we will establish spare parts production and, perhaps, carry out engine overhauls in Russian realities is nothing more than populist statements. Grounded aircraft are the only source of spare parts that will allow the agony of Airbuses in Russia to be prolonged a little longer.

And Kommersant's sources generally say that even this will not save, and by 2026 there will be no Airbuses left on Russian routes at all precisely because of the lack of proper repairs by manufacturers. Repair of such complex products in Russian conditions is simply impossible. Plus the lack of necessary components, but this is already sanctions.

But we have an aviation industry... We have Rostec... Were we promised hundreds of the aforementioned Superjets, which would solve all transportation problems?

Yes, we talked about this topic. There were loud statements, there were reproaches addressed to us in the style of "You don't understand", but one thing is clear here: imported planes began to fall from the sky, but domestic ones are still nowhere to be seen.

Interestingly, Rosaviatsia has for some reason stopped publishing data on the number of airliners in use. The latest information is from March 2022, at which time Russian air carriers had 1055 aircraft on their balance sheets:
- Boeing and Airbus - 647 pieces;
- small aircraft such as Embraer and ATR – 86 units;
- Superjets - 148 pieces.

There is information that about a hundred aircraft have been decommissioned to date. 10% is not critical, but not optimistic either. A bad start is a bad start, they will continue to be decommissioned, there is absolutely no doubt about that.

So what in return? Absolutely nothing.

A study entitled "Overview of the Russian transport complex based on the results of 2023". And there were these curious lines:

“Thus, according to Rosstat, in 2023, 89 civilian helicopters and several prototypes of passenger aircraft were produced.”

Think about it: Rosstat (which, in theory, should know everything that happens in the country in figures) talks about "several" models. That is, not a single serial aircraft was produced, but there were several prototypes. For example (the author's conjecture) - two. Two is, from the point of view of arithmetic, several. One, for example, the import-substituting "Superjet" and the second, which we simply do not know about because of its complete secrecy.

And here we begin to remember what was promised. And what was promised, based on the decree of the Russian government (thanks again to the press service of Rostec, which provided us with this wonderful document), is this:

And here's what we're seeing: yes, 2023 was a warm-up. No one was really expecting those unfortunate 5 planes (2 Superjet-New and 3 Tu-214), and they never happened. But when nothing was done in 2024, it became clear that something had gone wrong.

Much becomes clear from Resolutions of the Government of the Russian Federation of January 13, 2024 No. 7-r. A lot.

The resolution is dedicated to an investment project worth 283 billion rubles and named "A comprehensive program for the expansion of aircraft production, aviation engines, instruments and units, including for the purpose of creating a system of after-sales service for civil aircraft, implemented by the State Corporation Rostec".

That is, Rostec will receive 283 billion in addition to what it has already received, but for what? And from the document it becomes clear that for the modernization of enterprises in the aviation industry, among other things.

Quote from the document:

4. Objectives of the investment project:
a) expansion of production of domestic aviation equipment to ensure the implementation of the comprehensive program for the development of the aviation industry of the Russian Federation until 2030, approved by the Order of the Government of the Russian Federation dated June 25, 2022 No. 1693-r, is achieved by 2030 with the achievement of the design capacity for the production of aircraft per year SSJ-NEW - up to 20 units, MS-21-310 - up to 72 units, Il-114-300 - up to 12 units, Tu-214 - up to 20 units
and Il-96-300 - up to 2 units during the implementation period of the investment project;

b) ensuring the transport independence of the Russian Federation is achieved by 2030 through the implementation of a comprehensive program for the development of the aviation industry of the Russian Federation until 2030, approved by the order of the Government of the Russian Federation
dated June 25, 2022 No. 1693-r, regarding the delivery of SSJ-NEW aircraft - 142 units, MS-21-310 - 270 units, Il-114-300 - 70 units, Tu-214 - 115 units and Il-96-300 - 12 units;

c) the creation of an after-sales service system for SSJ-NEW, MS-21-310, Il-114-300, Tu-214 and Il-96-300 aircraft is achieved by 2030.

And for this, as it turned out, it was necessary to greatly modernize Russian aircraft manufacturing enterprises. It turns out that they have become somewhat dilapidated during the reign of Boeings and Airbuses in the Russian skies. Out of the blue, this became clear, and after the already mentioned decree of August 22, 2023, a program for modernizing the plants was required.

This means billions of rubles in money, thousands of workers and an indefinite amount of time.

The number of events that need to be implemented within the framework of the program takes up 22 printed sheets in the Appendix to the Resolution. And if you read the Appendix (link at the end of the article), even a non-specialist will understand that things are not as rosy as some thought last year. And indeed, we did not understand how bad everything was.

But now it is even more unclear: what were those who voiced joyful plans to release aircraft as early as 2024 guided by?

Excuse me, but where are all the planes from the above appendix to the 2022 resolution?

IL-114-300

They continue to tinker with the Il-114-300 in Lukhovitsy. They are import substituting, debugging and preparing to receive a certificate. But this is a significant event, without which there is no point in starting serial production, it will be (if it will be) at the end of 2025, as follows from these documents.

Therefore, you can calmly watch the work in Lukhovitsy and not wait for the 2023 Il-24s announced for 10–114. They will not be there.

And here's another thing: the heart! I mean, the "flaming motor"! And there's also a problem with it! The TV7-11ST-01 engines for the Il-114-300 are manufactured in St. Petersburg at "UEC-Klimov".

Planned volume: six engines in 2025, six in 2026, and 24 engines annually, starting in 2027. That is, there is no point in expecting the Il-2026-114 before 300! But the plans included: 10 aircraft in 2023-34. What should we call it? However, let's not rush.

MS-21-300

This wonder-toy, announced for 2024 in the amount of 6 pieces, should be made in Irkutsk, at Irkut. The plane is being made, but somehow very leisurely: in the workshops at the same time there are nine gliders at different stages of readiness. But so that at least one will come out by the end of the year - no, this will not happen.

And if you look at the latest news for the MS-21, then in 2025 Irkut should manufacture 9 (nine) aircraft. But according to the government decree, 6 aircraft should have seen the sky in 2024, and 12 in 2025.

This is called "adjusted plans". Twice as much. Well, applause.

Tu-214

How the Tatarstan authorities conjured to attract orders and investments - really, they should be respected for their desire to load the factories. As far as I understand, they did not disdain anything, because money in the republic is good for the republic.

But alas, their efforts were in vain. The Kazan aircraft plant failed again. No, the fact that they re-mastered the production of the Tu-160 is great, but not just a bomber, as they say. Loud statements and promises to release the first three Tu-2023 for civil aviation in 214 failed miserably.

And not just with a bang, but also with shame: in their defense, the Kazan aircraft manufacturers said that the government had given them the task of assembling aircraft from domestic parts as possible. I wonder where the imported components suddenly came from in a Soviet aircraft (and the Tu-214 is a completely Soviet Tu-204, even its original name was Tu-203-200, the differences are minimal)?

In total, 92 billion rubles, and we won't see the Tu-2026 before 214. And here's the question: again, we look at the resolution and think: how many of the 2026 aircraft declared for 35 will we see? I'm willing to bet that no more than five. If we see them.

IL-96-400

This plane won't be ready anytime soon. They are trying to assemble it here at the Voronezh Aircraft Plant. They are slowly messing around, but it's definitely not worth waiting for soon: VASO is in a deep crisis.

After the complete collapse of the An-148 program and the Il-112V disaster, the plant is at a nosedive, the personnel situation is sad, so the pace at which the Il-86 was churned out in Soviet times is not and will not be there. Yes, of course, the modernization of the enterprise, announced in the decree, is a good thing, but what's the point of modernizing the workshops if there is no one in them?

Thanks to the efforts of the remaining factory workers, the first Il-1-96M took to the skies for the first time on November 400. So yes, a few more years and not only Putin will be able to fly the Il-96. But this will really not be any time soon, in the best of times the factory could produce 10-12 aircraft per year, and now God willing, 3-4 will be able to.

Sukhoi Superjet 100

Here, too, everything is not very straightforward. What was the SSJ-100 is no longer produced, the last 13 aircraft were manufactured in 2022. On this story The SSJ-100 is finished, and in theory the story of the SSJ-100NEW should have begun. In general, "Superjet New" is the best name for a Russian aircraft of completely domestic assembly.

But the story of SSJ-100NEW has not yet begun. Moreover, information has come out that the plane, before it even started flying, has already lost one letter in its name and will now be called SJ-100NEW: Sukhoi sold its share to a Dubai investment holding company and washed its hands of it.

So now it will be "Superjet-100 New". Although, they say that they decided to return "Irkut" to its historical name "Yakovlev", so maybe the name change will bring good luck.

But it would be better if the change of all names and titles brought reliability. That is, something that the SSJ-100 did not have initially.

As an example: we have heard about the SSJ-100 accident in Antalya, which miraculously ended without casualties. But on that day, 25 November, according to the TV channel "360" and the telegram channel "Aviatorschina", the SSJ-100 visited FIVE incidents.

1. SSJ-100, flying from Ufa to Krasnoyarsk, reported to dispatchers before descent about a low fluid level in the second hydraulic system and requested a stop on the runway, as well as towing to the parking lot using a tractor.

2. Flight from St. Petersburg to Moscow. Same cause for concern: hydraulic system.

3. SSJ-100 on the Sochi-Antalya flight caught fire on the runway during an unsuccessful landing.

This particular aircraft has aborted takeoffs five times since September last year due to engine malfunctions. The second-to-last emergency occurred in August this year during the Mineralnye Vody-Ivanovo flight. The Superjet made an emergency landing at Moscow's Vnukovo Airport. There were problems with the hydraulic system again.

4. Another plane, flying from Sochi to Moscow, aborted takeoff during takeoff due to a malfunction.

5. Already at night, the plane, flying from Moscow to St. Petersburg, went around due to a malfunction of the landing gear system. The pilots landed the plane without incident, but on the runway they requested a tractor: a malfunction in the control system of the front landing gear wheel rotation.

And the list of emergencies involving the SSJ-100, which consists more than half of imported components, is as long as a rat's tail. It is difficult to predict what will happen when these SJ-100s start flying.

And so the situation turned out to be this: Airbuses are landing, but Superjets are not taking off, replacing them at least partially.

But heads rolled.

The general director of the Tupolev company, Konstantin Timofeev, and the managing director of the Yakovlev airline, Andrei Boginsky, were dismissed from their positions.

The reasons are not disclosed, but there is already a lot of nonsense surrounding the dismissal of the two top executives of the companies. It was especially unpleasant to read what Vladimir Popov, Honored Pilot of the Russian Federation, Major General of Aviation, Deputy Editor-in-Chief of the Aviapanorama magazine, said in a conversation with Abzats:

"Transferring management to the parent company level means saving manpower and resources, centralizing management. The UAC managers are right to make such a merger, modernizing and optimizing work from the point of view of saving human and financial resources."

The only thing missing was "This should have been done yesterday!" or something like that.

Vadim Badekha, Director of the United Aircraft Corporation, has been appointed to the post of General Director of PJSC Yakovlev; he will combine (!!!) positions.

Deputy General Director of UAC for Operational-Tactical Aviation Program Management Alexander Bobryshev will take over the management of PJSC Tupolev.

“The transfer of management to the level of the UAC parent company will allow all of the corporation’s resources to be concentrated on fulfilling specific tasks for the timely certification and launch of serial production of a line of domestic civil airliners,” the UAC statement says.

Decided to take control into their own hands. Well, maybe it will give some results. Combining such positions is a very, very difficult matter. However, the gentlemen managers know what they are getting into, it is not for us to judge the beginning, we will judge by the results.

It is clear that Tupolev and Yakovlev failed to cope with the tasks set. And then Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin signed another order to allocate 283,3 billion rubles from the National Welfare Fund for the development of the Russian aviation industry. And this is not the first such allocation, it should be noted.

That is, billions are flying into the aviation industry, like into some AvtoVAZ, and the result is only “Granta”, that is, “Superjet”.

Mishustin wants to see results even more than we do. That is, planes. And these billions should, according to his plan, ensure the production of those very planes that were supposed to start flying today. But they are not there, and the deadlines are being moved and moved.

Everyone understands perfectly well that even if the sanctions “iron curtain” collapses, it will not happen anytime soon. And there will be no magic wand that will suddenly make all the thoroughly rusted Boeings and Airbuses fly again.

So, we have to make do with our own resources. While we still have them, these resources, because the situation with personnel is… However, the situation with personnel is the same everywhere. Decades of glorifying work in an air trading office have done their job, and an engineer is a great rarity today.

As someone who lives in a place where planes fly only one route and don't take passengers, I'm already used to the fact that train tickets are not so good and sometimes it's worth considering a bus as a means of transportation. But things are getting worse and worse with Russian Railways, so the prospects are not so great.

Therefore, if it is necessary for heads to fly from shoulders and seats from comfortable and expensive chairs for the sake of airplanes flying, then so be it!

Interesting materials on the topic:
Order of the Government of the Russian Federation of January 13, 2024 No. 7-r.
Aviation industry of Russia
Overview of the Russian transport complex by the end of 2023

Comments

[Uncle lee]

But, thank God, I'm not flying out -
I'm killing time at the airport
With another one just like him - a brother!
We drink the seventh one a day
Because we will all sit down,
And, perhaps, to where we are flying.

[Akuzenka]

There is a wonderful phrase that can characterize affairs in the Russian Federation, almost all affairs: "This helicopter won't fly!"

[Vitov]

Well, Roman, well, political officer! You told everything without telling anything. A useless, whiny article about nothing. Let's return to sinful earth. If the country produces excellent combat aircraft, then why can't it produce good civilian aircraft? Or is something wrong? That's one.
Smart Roma told about the factories, but did not tell about the subcontractors who supply the units and systems from which these factories assemble the aircraft. Empty bodies, even with empty engines without units, do not fly. Stop lying and throwing money into nowhere. Make a register for each aircraft taking into account all component manufacturers and everything will immediately become clear, and send money to the address. Money from above will never reach the subcontractors, only directly. Moreover, by comparing these registers, you will see small factories where all the aircraft fly, and which are in dire straits... And they are heroes!!!
If they produce new Il-76MD-90A, then what's the problem? Or they don't produce them?

[Akuzenka]

The main problem is in qualified personnel who can produce components. There are none, so to speak. The units of aircraft that are produced are assembled mainly from imported ones. There are none of our own. I do not understand the optimism of many. Money without personnel and factories is just money, paper, from which you cannot build an aircraft. It can only be "mastered". And the fact that some aircraft are being built is honor and praise to those who were able to maintain production. But this is a drop in the ocean.

[Vitov]

In aviation there is no "drop in the bucket". The aforementioned Il-76 has all the systems and units that are on civil aircraft (generators, pumps, pipelines, drives, racks, etc.). Or is everything made for these aircraft by hand, with a file and a chisel? Either someone is lying, or there is obvious sabotage, or they are stealing from abroad, and lying again! And what kind of serviceability do these new aircraft have if there are no spare parts? It's time for Belousov to sort things out with the Air Force!

[Akuzenka]

Military, transport and passenger aircraft have their own systems. And different engines, avionics and chassis, pumps with hydraulic systems. Agree, aircraft are made for tasks. And the same pump or avionics cannot be the same on a combat, transport and passenger aircraft. Now one aircraft model is a thing in itself. It was in the "bloody" USSR that there was a direct continuity of units, because there was a design school, there were plans for the development of aircraft models and brands. Now nothing remains of the former diversity.

[bk316]

The mentioned Il-76 has all the systems and units

What you wrote is some nonsense, not these units, but units of the same purpose.

[Vitov]

And what if an aggregate plant with powerful equipment, its own foundry, design bureau, experienced personnel cannot produce a line of identical aggregates? About nonsense for kindergarten. You are told how it should be and was. And no one argues. I am a double of Okko077, remember him, how we discussed everything a long time ago?

[bk316]

But what if an aggregate plant with powerful equipment, with its own foundry, design bureau, and experienced personnel cannot produce a line of identical units?

Maybe, but it depends on how different the units are.
And this is determined at the aircraft design stage.
What to do with all these sj if they are not designed for unification?
Yes, I consider Okko077 a competent comrade.

[ramzay21]

The main problem in our country is the complete absence of a SYSTEM as well as the absence of development GOALS and long-term and medium-term PLANS. Without this, there is no and cannot be any domestic aviation industry. And the swindlers who seized power 40 years ago never understood this and never will.

The plane consists of thousands of spare parts, some factories were abroad, others were not needed by this government and were demolished. Who and where will produce the most complex equipment for the plane, and even quickly, I'm afraid to imagine, especially in terms of safety and reliability, it is enough to look at the Superjet, which is 80% foreign.

The aviation industry needs a SYSTEM and long-term PLANNING, a reliable customer for stable and planned deliveries of aircraft, a correct personnel policy with promotion to the top based on business qualities and constant financing of projects.
The aviation industry should employ educated personnel, and this is possible ONLY if these personnel are well paid and have confidence that they, as a narrow specialist, will not be thrown out on the street tomorrow. And who will go to VASO for pennies to study for a long time so that after the sanctions are lifted and Boeing returns, they can be thrown out on the street without a profession?

[bk316]

Without this there is not and cannot be any domestic aviation industry.

Why? The American one can, but ours can't?
Oh, God bless him and the American one.
How about Brazilian?
What are their plans? They don't know what tomorrow will be capitalism or socialism, military dictatorship or monarchy. But there is an aviation industry.
I think you're just out of the loop.
By the way, the Superjet was simply planned as a child of international cooperation. In the USSR, this also happened with socialist countries. That's where 80% comes from.
But you can forget about this, the Superjet New has 92% domestic components according to the project.

[Zoer]

Quote: bk316

Why? The American one can, but ours can't?

Who told you such nonsense that Americans don’t have long-term planning?

Quote: bk316

How about Brazilian?

About the same as ours, with "our" SSJ100. 90% of Western components in the specification.

Quote: bk316

I think you're just out of the loop.

It's you who are out of the loop. At all.

Quote: bk316

In the USSR, the same thing happened with socialist countries. That's why it's 80%.

What are you talking about? How many components from, for example, Poland, were in the Tu-134, Tu-154?

Quote: bk316

But you can forget about this, the Superjet New has 92% domestic components according to the project.

So far these are just myths of ancient Greece.

[bk316]

As for the goals, I agree. But who is this question for? Who should formulate them?

[Zoer]

Quote: ramzay21

The aviation industry needs a SYSTEM and long-term PLANNING, a reliable customer for stable and planned deliveries of aircraft, a correct personnel policy with promotion to the top based on business qualities and constant financing of projects.

They can't do that. You need brains for that, and our rulers don't have them. They can only pull off a two-move plan, at best.

Quote: ramzay21

The aviation industry should employ educated personnel, and this is possible ONLY if these personnel are well paid and have confidence that they, as a narrow specialist, will not be thrown out on the street tomorrow. And who will go to VASO for pennies to study for a long time so that after the sanctions are lifted and Boeing returns, they can be thrown out on the street without a profession?

Pay well? Why? They'd rather bring a crowd of savages here for slave labor. What planes are there? They started paying our fighters more or less, so what? Saphdzadovna doesn't know how else to raise the rate and dampen inflation.
But sanctions are unlikely to be lifted in our lifetime. That's what I think.

[Zoer]

Quote: Vitov

And what about an aggregate plant with powerful equipment, with its own foundry, design bureau?

Maybe, but on one condition. If such a plant really exists and is not a figment of someone's imagination.

[Zoer]

Quote: Vitov

In aviation there is no "drop in the ocean". The mentioned Il-76 has all the systems and units that are on civil aircraft (generators, pumps, pipelines, drives, racks, etc.). Or is everything made for these aircraft by hand, with a file and a chisel?

Believe it or not, this is practically true. And the speed of that production leaves much to be desired. Well, we don't have the production capacity to produce all of this on stream, in large quantities and quickly. Moreover, that Il-76 comes from the last century. And if it's still good enough for military transport, where they don't count money and the requirements are completely different, then for civil aviation it's absolutely not suitable. Neither in terms of price, nor in terms of safety requirements and regulations.

[alexoff]

The main problem is qualified personnel

But is there a great need for these personnel? Someone shouts - half a kingdom for personnel? In the USSR, engineers were very much needed in pre-Khrushchev times, there were few of them and a striking example is engineer Bruns, he lived like a gentleman.

[Zoer]

Quote from alexoff

But is there a great need for these personnel? Someone shouts - half a kingdom for personnel? In the USSR, engineers were very much needed in pre-Khrushchev times, there were few of them and a striking example is engineer Bruns, he lived like a gentleman.

How do you imagine the need for engineering and technical workers if there are no factories, plants or equipment? Even a design bureau cannot exist on its own. The result of intellectual activity (RIA) by itself, without material implementation, is worth nothing and is of no use to anyone, no matter how brilliant this RIA is. So for some reason I do not observe any mass construction of factories, or the revival and rearmament of old ones. NOTHING is happening in this direction, only talk.

[alexoff]

Satisfy the need for workers - even faster than for engineering and technical workers. The problem is solvable. But no one is going to solve it. Why? After all, if you steal the allocated money, you will provide yourself with a sweet life and even have enough for your own business jet. And nothing will happen for this, on the contrary - respect. The son-in-law of a deputy, a member of the Duma Defense Committee and former deputy of Serdyukov, built a jewelry store in Cyprus with money for the Altair drone, a respected person in London now, no questions to his father-in-law. Import substitution has already happened, everything was stolen and nothing. The state defense order was stolen at least 50% and like water off a duck's back. That's why nothing is being built

[FIR FIR]

Quote: AKuzenka

The main problem is in qualified personnel who can produce components. They are practically non-existent.

And where did they suddenly go? Well, never mind, soon new vocational schools, i.e. colleges, will be finished and built.

[FIR FIR]

Quote: AKuzenka

Those units of aircraft that are produced are assembled mainly from imported ones.

Aircraft production in 1915: Russian Empire - 1305, Germany - 4532.
in 1916: Russian Empire - 1870, Germany - 8182.
in 1917: Russian Empire - 1897, Germany - 19646.
There are now many fans of the RI, and we are confidently moving towards its industrial power.
in 1941: USSR - 15735, Germany - 11776.
in 1942: USSR - 25436, Germany - 15596.
in 1943: USSR - 34245, Germany - 25527.
in 1944: USSR - 40246, Germany - 39807.
But we will never return to Soviet galoshes................................

[Saxahorse]

Quote: FIR FIR

Aircraft production in 1915: Russian Empire - 1305, Germany - 4532.

There is a nuance. Not a single engine, magneto or instrument was produced for these 1305 aircraft in the Russian Empire. Everything is imported. Only a fuselage made of sticks and rags. A complete analogy with the SSJ-100 in general.

[Leontrotsky]

And the fact that the USSR had its own aviation industry, does that not count? And the Superjet has now been imported, which will undoubtedly only benefit the Russian aviation industry.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

And the Superjet has now been import-substituted, which will undoubtedly only benefit the Russian aircraft industry.

It was only in the guarantor's hospital that they substituted imports. Have you even read the author's article, have you seen the statistics there?

[Leontrotsky]

I watched "military acceptance" and in particular the episode dedicated to the superjet. Is the word of the general designer sufficient grounds to believe? Moreover, the correspondent traveled to the factories of suppliers that manufacture these very import-substituting parts. So the material is helpful.
https://tvzvezda.ru/video/programs/201412231323-1cpc.htm/2024323118-tyB1e.html

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

I watched "military acceptance" and in particular the episode dedicated to the superjet. Is the word of the general designer sufficient reason to believe?

On our TV, all these jets, MSs and Tu-204s have been flying in flocks and swarms for 10 years now. But in reality, everything is completely different. Well, in general, the State Corporation is not responsible for mass production, and its opinion on this topic can be used to wipe one's ass, nothing more.
But you continue to eat noodles from TV. Apparently it is a very satisfying product for you.

[Leontrotsky]

We are not talking about mass production, but about import substitution. As for mass production, one plane was rolled out every five days using imported components (the words of the general again). In total, there are about 140 superjets using imported parts. Testing is currently being completed and the series will begin. Come in and see, and if you don't want to, don't spout off your own ideas. A person who wants to understand the issue is happy with any information, but a liberal brushes off information that runs counter to his worldview)))

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

This is not about mass production, but about import substitution.

Is this your kind of funny humor? How can we import-substitute anything without mass production? Or will we all fly on the same plane?

Quote: Leontrotsky

As for mass production, one aircraft was rolled out every five days using imported components (again, the words of the CEO). In total, there are about 140 superjets using imported components.

So the Superjets were only produced for less than 2 years? Aaa, what's that!?

Quote: Leontrotsky

Now the tests are finishing and the series will start. Come in and watch, and if you don't want to, don't spout off your own ideas.

I've been hearing about these tests being completed for 3 years now. And things are still the same.

Quote: Leontrotsky

A person who wants to understand the issue is happy with any information, but a liberal brushes off information that goes against his worldview)))

How I like the uryakly who see nothing beyond Putin-the-zombie-box. And all who do not chew all this noodles from the blue screens - they are certainly liberals!))))
But it was precisely these turbo-statists who destroyed thousands of factories in the 00s and 10s, which miraculously survived in the 90s. And now reality is being replaced by lies.
Meli Emelya, it's your week!!!

[Leontrotsky]

No, it's not a joke. To get the Superjet back into production,
it needs to be imported. Secondly, it needs to be re-created
pass all the tests. That's two. And three - only after that go into production.
It's strange that you haven't heard of such an algorithm. Apparently, you don't watch the idiot box)))
They have been producing the Superjet for, of course, not two years, but before the suspension of production they were exactly
such a pace. This, again, is from the words of the general. However, what do we care about the general? You are all better
you know him)))) How many planes did you assemble with a screwdriver and a drill, my dear?))))))
Third year you hear about tests? And try, for starters, to get your ass off the couch,
yes, do the same work that those who built the superjets did. Namely, develop
all systems, test them on the "electronic bird", replace all avionics, re-test
and then we'll see what's easier to talk about or to actually do)))
The problem is not that you don’t watch anything on screen and don’t want to know what you’re afraid to know,
although this also happens. It's bad that you rarely turn on your brain... but this is really a disaster)))

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

No, it's not a joke. To get the Superjet back into production,
it needs to be imported. Secondly, it needs to be re-created
pass all the tests. That's two. And three - only after that go into production.
It's strange that you haven't heard of such an algorithm. Apparently, you don't watch the idiot box)))

It is strange that you do not understand that in order to import-substitute a MASS product, mass production in the country is needed. And it has not been and is not. And that is why we have been hearing about these endless tests for the 3rd year, or even more. Carbon for the wing was banned for us 10 years ago, in 2014. Since then, we have been import-substituting everything. And we will continue to do so for the same amount of time, until the political system in the country is completely and entirely changed. And you still believe in fairy tales.

Quote: Leontrotsky

Third year you hear about tests? And try, for starters, to get your ass off the couch,
yes, do the same work that those who built the superjets did. Namely, develop
all systems, test them on the "electronic bird", replace all avionics, re-test
and then we'll see what's easier to talk about or to actually do)))

I work in the development of serial radio electronics products. I know and see from the inside how it all happens, and I know how it should be. For 10 years in the USSR to test something is nonsense and NONSENSE.
I tell you with all responsibility, NOTHING has been replaced in microelectronics. Not even AT ALL!!! And you are blowing TV fairy tales into my ears)))

Quote: Leontrotsky

It's bad that you rarely turn on your brain... but this is really a disaster)))

The problem is that you have nothing to turn on at all. Maybe the spinal cord, but it's unlikely to help.

[Leontrotsky]

I advise you to look at the "military acceptance" regarding the wings, and the general and chief designers of both the Superjet and the MS-21 will show you the production process, and will tell you in plain language that the components of the airliners are completely domestic. They, I think, are more in the know than you, or are you also the general designer of the aircraft?
Regarding microelectronics, I will ask a simple question - what to do with Milandr in Zelenograd, which in conditions of full-cycle production churns out microcircuits for the defense industry using 90 nm technology, which go into the avionics and radars of both the Su-35 and Su-57, as well as the above-mentioned MS-21. Before you lie - think carefully, two of my classmates from school work at Milandr and their information is completely different from yours)))

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

I advise you to look at the "military acceptance" regarding the wings

I advise you to take your head out of the idiot box and look around.

Quote: Leontrotsky

Regarding microelectronics, I will ask a simple question - what to do with Milandr in Zelenograd, which, in the conditions of full-cycle production, churns out microcircuits for the defense industry using 90 nm technology

Awesome!!! TAKE IT OFF!!!
NEVER in the Russian Federation have chips been mass produced using the 90 nm process technology. There were attempts and prototypes at the Angstrem-T plant, which purchased a Western lithograph, but things did not go further. The plant is bankrupt, there were no chips and there are none. Everything that was done and is being done is on Soviet lithographs, using the 250-500 nm process technology. THAT'S IT! Who are you trying to lie to?

Quote: Leontrotsky

Before you lie, think carefully, two of my classmates from school work at Milandra and their information is completely different from yours)))

This is the same nonsense as 90nm chips made in Russia. All that was done at this 90nm TP plant was developing them, and ordering crystals from Taiwan, from TSMC.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

And three - only after that go into production.
It's strange that you haven't heard of such an algorithm. Apparently, you don't watch the idiot box)))

Here's more about algorithms, idiot boxes and reality...
How many rolling bearings do you think there are in a product like an airliner? Well, hundreds, if not thousands. Both highly loaded, precision, and high-speed. In general, as our metrology teacher at the university told us, the production of rolling bearings is an indicator of mechanical engineering in the country as a whole. I hope you personally at least understand this?
So, let's just look at the statistics... This is the import substitution since 2014...

[FIR FIR]

Quote: Saxahorse

There is a nuance

If we also take this nuance into account, then fans of real-life games will become completely sad.

[Petr_Koldunov]

Quote: FIR FIR

But we will never return to Soviet galoshes

These galoshes flew to Vostok station without fail at -60. And there were cases - at -70. When not a single, even the most beautiful plane of the most technologically advanced America - could even start.

[Leontrotsky]

Tighten up the hardware. I recommend watching "military acceptance" - there are films about the TU-214, the Superjets, and the MS-21. The delay was caused by the transition to domestic components and testing (because testing is carried out even when changing the supplier of any part). General designers unanimously say - everything is domestic. Moreover, the acceptance even visited the suppliers' factories. And according to plans - by 29, it is planned to produce about 70 TU-214 and the same number of Superjets. The Tu-214 will be used as long-haul airliners.

[Akuzenka]

Tighten up the hardware. I recommend watching "military acceptance" - there are films about the TU-214, and about the Superjets, and about the MS-21. The delay was caused by the transition to domestic components and testing (since testing is carried out even when the supplier of any part changes).

You know, I would be glad to believe it myself. But all the experience of recent years tells us that we are being deceived. Just remember what was said about the space industry. So what? And nothing, absolutely nothing of what was said turned out to be true. Just words. In 2024, the reusable Orel was supposed to fly. The news was from 2012. Now they even remember it. I am sure the same is true for civilian airliners. However, we will live and see.

[Leontrotsky]

Well, nevertheless, in Apple, a rocket carrying up to 5 tons of payload was launched from the eastern hangar A25. And just now, at the end of November, Condor, a radar satellite, was launched into orbit. So we are not standing still here either. And remember how many times Musk shifted the launches of the same Dragon to the right. Cosmonautics is such an industry that it is difficult to guarantee this or that event with precision down to the day.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

Well, nevertheless, in Apple, a rocket carrying up to 5 tons of payload was launched from the eastern hangar A25. And just now, at the end of November, Condor, a radar satellite, was launched into orbit. So we are not standing still here either. And remember how many times Musk shifted the launches of the same Dragon to the right. Cosmonautics is such an industry that it is difficult to guarantee this or that event with precision down to the day.

What Angara? This is a technology from the last century, developed by our ancestors from a more developed civilization. But in fact, we are already hopelessly behind the US even in space, even in orbital launches. And this already carries huge military risks for our country. Which we are now fully enjoying in the SVO, thanks to Musk's Starlink.

[Leontrotsky]

Well, it’s hardly correct to compare with a country that has a currency as a reserve.
We need to sell oil, gas, and military-industrial complex products in order to earn money and invest it in space.
And the states just need to print them, give the Fed a receipt for the next government loan and invest them.
in one industry or another. And yet
1-"The official start of the project was laid by the decree of the President of the Russian Federation Boris Yeltsin on January 6, 1995
"On the creation of the Angara space rocket complex." The state customers were the Russian Ministry of Defense
and the Russian Space Agency (later the Federal Space Agency, now the state corporation Roscosmos).
The lead developer was the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center.
That is, the project was launched after the collapse of the USSR.
2-Development of RD-191 for the first and second stages began in 98. As we can also see, after the collapse of the USSR.
Let the RD-170 be taken as the basis for the design.

So, as we can see, it is not a union alone.
And in the North-East we are fighting with the whole of NATO. And I think that the Russian Federation is the only country that could withstand this pressure. Yes, the communication system leaves much to be desired.
But the air defense, the target control system, including the satellite one, the Su-35, the Su-57, not to mention the hypersonic, showed themselves to be quite decent.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

Well, it’s hardly correct to compare with a country that has a currency as a reserve.
We need to sell oil, gas, and military-industrial complex products in order to earn money and invest it in space.

Yes, yes, there wasn't enough money during Putin's 20 years? Why did they take it out of the country and invest it in American debts? Was there too much to invest in their own country?

Quote: Leontrotsky

That is, the project was launched after the collapse of the USSR.
2-Development of RD-191 for the first and second stages began in 98. As we can also see, after the collapse of the USSR.
Let the RD-170 be taken as the basis for the design.

You are far from the topic. RD-191 is not developed on the basis of RD-170, it is simply 1/4 of the same RD-170. And all the technologies and developments in Angara are the pinnacle of Soviet space development. But these are already outdated technologies. It is absolutely obvious that without returnable stages of the LV, the space race cannot be won, and not even come close to the favorite.

Quote: Leontrotsky

And in the North-East we are fighting with all of NATO.

I'm tired of repeating it to people like you. How funny it was for me to hear the squeals of the Khinzir when they were screaming until 5 that they were fighting against Russia in Donbass. Now our Uryakls are carrying the same crap. So, my dear man, supplying weapons, technology and intelligence data is not fighting at all. These seem to be simple and obvious things. But for some reason they are not accessible to the perception of hat-throwers.

Quote: Leontrotsky

But the air defense, the target control system, including the satellite one, the Su-35, the Su-57, not to mention the hypersonic, showed themselves to be quite decent.

Yes, yes... It's just that these damn debris, these creatures, are constantly destroying our cities and infrastructure.

[Leontrotsky]

Of course, there wasn't enough. Neither years nor money. Because there are things that, excuse me,
superjets are more important. Namely, zircons, calibers, daggers, Su-57, Borei and
Antei, Bulava and blue. Or hypersonic in the cruise missile version
did they have it in the Union?))) Well, as we can see, the calculation turned out to be correct.
It would be worse if both the Tu-214 and the Superjets were flying, but there would be neither
Peonov, no Lotus, no Razdan, no all of the above)))
Am I far from RD-170?))) I understand that you are their general designer?)))
Be simpler, because as Baron Munchausen said, "All the stupidity on earth
are done with a smart expression on their face"))))
What you say doesn't bother me much. You are not God and even
not the Supreme Commander. For now, at least))) But people,
who achieved a lot in life, for example Winston Churchill,
even economic sanctions were considered as military action against that
or another country. He will remember how the states themselves perceived not even the application, but only the deployment
missiles in Cuba. I hope I don't need to remind you what this almost led to.
As well as what would Ukraine be without an intelligence system, command and control, weapons,
mercenaries and specialists of all stripes and everything else. Yes, NATO units
not yet in Ukraine. But where is the line between participating in a war and providing assistance?
You think so. I, with old Winston, think differently)))

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

Of course it wasn't enough. Neither years nor money. Because there are things that, excuse me,
superjets are more important. Namely, zircons, calibers, daggers, Su-57, Borei and
Antei, Bulava and blue. Or hypersonic in the cruise missile version
did they have it in the Union?)))

Again, this is pure nonsense!!! All the arrested yachts of Putin's oligarchs turned out to be more expensive than modern Russia built for all its fleets of ships. And you still haven't answered, therefore, if there was not enough money, they invested it in American debts, and not in their own factories and technologies. And vice versa, did they only destroy those same factories and technologies? Is there anything to say about this? I doubt it!!!

[Leontrotsky]

About yachts?))) Of course, I will answer. Let me remind you that we have a capitalist OEF, which implies the division of citizens into yacht owners and non-owners of even VAZs, and the right to private property. So it is ridiculous to be surprised by other people's millions - capitalism implies this. Under socialism, there was no such division, as well as yacht owners. But there was free education and health care and a pension on which it was quite possible to live. But didn't we ourselves choose "the market that will regulate everything"? Didn't we ourselves fail to defend the gains of socialism, and now we are surprised by the increase in the retirement age to the level of capitalist European standards and are indignant why they don't teach for free in universities (however, you can still get a higher education on a budget for free). Did you personally come out in defense of the USSR? So now, then, you scream about yachts to the whole wide world. This is your choice too.
About factories. Opening new or closing old factories is also a sign of capitalism. Unprofitable enterprises are closed, profitable ones remain. Recently, one comrade here was hysterical that the Volgograd tractor plant had closed. And why is it needed when PTZ produces 20 types of tractors and loaders, plus Rostselmash produces a 2000-type tractor line, not counting combines. And the Volgograd tractor plant is now given over to the needs of the defense industry.
I heard the same screams about the closure of the Mosuov aviation bearings plant. But it turned out that its production facilities had moved to Samara. And if earlier aircraft bearings were produced both in Moscow and Samara, now they have simplified logistics, concentrated production in one place, increased production capacity in Samara and happily, bearings are being riveted there for the needs of both Superjets and Tu-214 and MS-21. And there was a scream)))
So here we need to look at each specific case.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

About yachts?))) Of course, I will answer. Let me remind you that we have a capitalist OEF, which implies the division of citizens into yacht owners and those who do not even own VAZs, and the right to private property. So it is funny to be surprised by other people's millions - capitalism implies this.

It is funny to be surprised when the rulers allow such an imbalance between the fat of the oligarchs, who simply pump out the country's resources, and the military security of this very country. This is exactly why we have it now Ukrainians and the Americans, what we have. Namely, the 3rd year of the SVO, and already on our lands. I see that you are satisfied with all this.
And you still haven’t answered WHY the government’s rulers invested billions of dollars and euros in American debts, and not in the military-industrial complex and industry of our Motherland???

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

Under socialism there was no such division, as there were no yacht owners. But there was free education and health care and a pension on which it was quite possible to live. But didn't we ourselves choose "the market that will regulate everything"?

Don't lie again!!! At the referendum, the people of the USSR clearly spoke out in favor of preserving the USSR. It was your idols, the thieves, who destroyed the country and plundered its pockets. And they are still doing it.

Quote: Leontrotsky

You, personally, came out to defend the USSR? So now, then, you scream about yachts to the whole wide world. This is your choice too.

You are lying again!!! Firstly, I was young then. Secondly, my parents, and many others, were taught to trust their authorities, but they were cruelly deceived and screwed over with the referendum results. So, there is no need to shift responsibility and choice onto people who had nothing to do with it.

Quote: Leontrotsky

Opening new or closing old factories is also a sign of capitalism. Unprofitable productions are closed, profitable ones remain.

LYING again!!!! I wasn't talking about one or ten specific factories that were opened there and closed here. I was talking about tens of thousands of factories and industries that were closed WITHOUT AN ALTERNATIVE. About the complete deindustrialization of the country! The production of bearings was reduced SEVEN times under Putin alone. WHERE are the new factories that were opened? There aren't any and there won't be any. Because it's easier to pump oil here and buy yachts and factories THERE.
No need to whistle about profitability and other nonsense!

Quote: Leontrotsky

I heard the same screams about the closure of the Mosuov aviation bearings plant. But it turned out that its production facilities had moved to Samara. And if earlier aircraft bearings were produced both in Moscow and Samara, now they have simplified logistics, concentrated production in one place, increased production capacity in Samara and happily, bearings are being riveted there for the needs of both Superjets and Tu-214 and MS-21. And there was a scream)))

I gave you statistics. The USSR produced 800 million bearings, and that was NOT ENOUGH for everything that was made in the USSR. And that was NOT ENOUGH either, there was a shortage of all equipment, cars, motorcycles, etc. Now they produce 40 million bearings. WHAT IS THERE ENOUGH FOR? Only for one VAZ car, and that's a question. What are you even talking about? What kind of complete LIE is this?

Quote: Leontrotsky

So here we need to look at each specific case.

No need to spread snot on the tree. Here you need to take your head out of the TV and look around. Here the author of the article wrote well what is happening around, using our aviation industry as an example. And here you are trying to hang noodles on our ears.

[Akuzenka]

Oh, yes, this is an event! So what?! And nothing! The much-spit-on "Dragon" flies. Yes, "nuts and bolts" are pouring out of it! But it flies, it launches satellites into orbit, it carries people (though only one way). And what about Angara 5? How many launches has "Dragon" had, how many has Angara? Why doesn't it fly? All on "Protons" and "Soyuz".

[Leontrotsky]

Well, Angara 5 was launched only in the spring for the first time. It wasn't going to put a satellite into orbit and fly every month for that - there are more budget-friendly solutions for that.

[Zoer]

Quote: Leontrotsky

And according to plans, by 29, it is planned to produce around 70 TU-214 and the same number of Superjets. Tu-214 will be used as long-haul airliners.

How to end up in the Russia that is shown on federal channels?

[Petrovich2202]

Tu-204/214 is a typical medium-haul aircraft. The shoulder, about 6000 kilometers, well, it does not pull for a long distance. The only long-haul aircraft that we have is the Il-96 (there was also the Il-62 before)...

[23ronin]

Unfortunately, you are right and wrong, the country produces good tanks, air defense systems, space rockets, but cannot produce good cars, then the Italians set up a plant, then the French, now the Chinese have joined in, whom the USSR taught to make cars. The students have surpassed the teacher. Probably all the problems are not in the conditional "toilets" but in the heads and the Head? A lot of chatter, projects and theft with impunity. As for aviation and directly super-cruelty, I have to say that the machine did not work out from the very beginning. Where is Pogosyan now - he runs MAI. Sukhoi Design Bureau made good COMBAT aircraft, so they should have made them. Civilian aircraft are not their path. No matter what anyone says, the TU334 would have taken out the industry in the current conditions. They ruined the Saratov aircraft plant, and it was possible to modify the 42nd machines in the current conditions. Finances should be spent on finalizing PD8..IMHO

[Bolt cutter]

TU334 would have taken it out

On Zaporozhye engines?

[geniy]

On Zaporozhye engines?

And the Tu-334 engines have almost the same thrust as the Superjet. So you can either install French ones first, or new PD-8

[Alexey Lantukh]

As for aviation and the super-hard stuff itself, I have to say that the car didn’t work out from the very beginning.

I will add that if the money that went into the Superjet had been used to finish the TU-204/214, it would have been flying successfully for a long time, no worse than the 737. The problem is the venality of the aviation authorities during Yeltsin's time.

[23ronin]

I predict, colleague, that the money went far beyond the improvement of the plane; it’s no coincidence that the president of the association of Russian banks is an Armenian.

[man]

The problem is the venality of the aviation authorities during Yeltsin’s time.
And under Putin they stopped being corrupt?

[Petrovich2202]

There was another problem: the Tu-204/214 appeared at the wrong time, and turned out to be a niche aircraft: it was slightly larger than the A320/B737... The Bobiks had a similar aircraft: the B-757, which was retired early. And now, as practice shows, such aircraft have begun to be in demand (though with minor modifications, remember the same ULR series from the dandies from Toulouse)... The Tu-214 has a chance. But the guys from Seattle are biting their elbows. They have nothing to offer to compete with the Europeans. But I think that the Tu-214 will go into production. In addition, about a hundred of them have been produced, and they are still flying.

[your1970]

Quote: 23ronin

can't produce good cars, then the Italians set up a plant, then the French, now the Chinese have joined in, whom the USSR taught to make cars. The students have surpassed the teacher. Perhaps all the problems are not in the conditional "toilets" but in the heads and the Head? A lot of chatter, projects and theft unpunished

There was no budget theft in the USSR, but there were no good cars either.
Vesta turned out good - but there are problems with components and a price of 2 million....

[grandson of Perun]

Quote: your1970

There was no budget theft in the USSR, but there were no good cars either.

In the USSR and even now our cars are comparable to their foreign counterparts budget classmates.
Those who talk about "bad cars" usually compare them not with budget Fiats, Opels, etc., but with not at all budget Mercedes, using the scam with the phrase "for the same price".

[Zoer]

Quote: Perun's grandson

In the USSR and even now, our cars are comparable to their foreign budget classmates.

The whole problem is that in the USSR there was a catastrophic shortage of them, and they were unreasonably expensive, three years' income of a good turner or milling machine operator.

[VIT101]

Quote: your1970

There was no budget theft in the USSR, but there were no good cars either.

It depends on how you put it. Who remembers, in the 80s during the USSR, they started importing Audi 80 from Germany, exactly the same as our 99, no better, BMW troika two-door, it was also called a shark - not much better than our seven. That is, our cars at that time were comparable to European ones, even if they were inferior to them in some ways. And what about now? The difference is like night and day, you can't find other words. So don't talk about cars in the USSR.

[your1970]

Quote: VIT101

in the 80s they started importing Audi 80s from Germany,

Quote: VIT101

BMW troika two-door, also called shark - not much better than our seven

equating BMW to VAZ2107 is somewhat unexpected
Twice as powerful engine, thick galvanized metal, gorgeous paint, power steering, air conditioning, good optics, leather interior, overall reliability - against this bucket of bolts and heater tap that has nothing - which has been leaking the entire time of production in 2 centuries...

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

equating BMW to VAZ2107 is a bit of an unexpected fool

Just like comparing the Audi 80 (barrel) with the Sputnik chisel)))

[grandson of Perun]

The country produces good tanks, air defense systems, space rockets, but it cannot produce good cars, then the Italians set up a plant, then the French, now the Chinese have joined in

Don't believe those who push the idea that "Russians don't know how..."
1. The Italians sold the equipment and technology 55 years ago. The Italian ended with the end of the classic production. Samara, ten, etc. were already produced using new technologies and other equipment.
2. Besides the Italian one, there were other car factories. Of course, we can remember that GAZ was built with American equipment. In the early 30s, long before the war. Therefore, it is not even funny to look for American roots in Gazelles.
3. In Soviet times, our cars were exported quite well. They knew how.
4. And they "forgot how" and started looking for investors (we are talking about the French and others who have already come to the Russian Federation) after the liberal "reforms":
a) wild inflation, in which any production with a long turnover of capital goes bankrupt;
b) statements by liberals that we don’t need our own industry and will buy everything abroad;
c) a kind of state support, when money is allocated not to producers, but to banks, so that banks lent manufacturers. Great support. Banks, so that they can cut their interest.
The same can be said about civil aviation and shipbuilding...

[Arigin]

Search for American roots in GAZelle...
Found it, Ford Transit.

[BAT-MENT]

They either scare us with saucers, saying that vile creatures are flying, or their ruins are howling, or dogs are talking...

[Iris]

Are you a colleague of Guards General of Aviation Popov, who advocates using watermelon juice instead of kerosene?

[Yuriy Filatov]

You wrote a damn funny post. This is the only way to do it if... the country was in a state of emergency, all issues were supervised by people from the KGB and bottlenecks were solved with a phone call.
But no. In Russia, in 30 years, God knows what has been built and there are bows on the side. All budget money should go through competitions on open sites, and if no one came, then so that. The competition did not take place. All these state enterprises have long been transferred to joint-stock companies with private capital and God knows what kind of management.
The state has been blabbering about "fair competition" for 30 years
Well, and the most delicious thing - the 30% rule has not disappeared anywhere. The first condition for allocating money under any program is the return of 30% of the allocated amount to the person allocating the amount. Well, and with the remaining 50%, do as you wish.

[Zoer]

Quote: Vitov

If a country produces excellent combat aircraft, then why can't it produce good civilian aircraft? Or is something wrong? That's one.

This is absolutely not true! The USSR produced excellent tanks, but could not create its own high-quality and mass-produced automobile industry.
As for the combat aircraft that the Russian Federation is currently producing, these are mostly the same Soviet Su-27s, deeply modernized. The completely new Su-57 was produced in single quantities, as were the Tu-204 and the MS-21. And here the questions really are not only and not so much about the airliner assembly plant itself, but about the industry in the country as a whole. Well, we have a pittance of that industry. The most MINUTE. Even our own bearings are only enough for AvtoVAZ's needs. What can we even talk about here?

[nerovnayadoroga]

There is a wonderful phrase that can characterize the affairs in the Russian Federation, almost all affairs: "This helicopter won't fly!" I will add to the phrase... "The ENTIRE system here needs to be changed..."

[your1970]

Quote: nerovnayadoroga

There is a wonderful phrase that can characterize the affairs in the Russian Federation, almost all affairs: "This helicopter won't fly!" I will add to the phrase... "The ENTIRE system here needs to be changed..."

The joke appeared in Soviet times, and if it appeared now, it would mean the end of the Russian Federation.

[Leontrotsky]

It's bold...to draw geopolitical conclusions based on a joke))) And the fact that Russia has been standing for how many centuries, contrary to the joke, hasn't made you think?)))

[your1970]

Quote: Leontrotsky

It's bold...to draw geopolitical conclusions based on a joke))) And the fact that Russia has been standing for how many centuries, contrary to the joke, hasn't made you think?)))

"Russia is governed directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists" ©
It was said a long time ago and explains a lot.

[Leontrotsky]

Yes. But only for those who believe in God)))) And we, mere mortals, remember how many times Russia went through such trials - that the States and Great Britain did not even come close. And again it was reborn, like a Phoenix. And the USA, do you think you were able to be reborn after an exchange of nuclear strikes?)))

[your1970]

Quote: Leontrotsky

And the USA, do you think, was able to revive after the exchange of nuclear strikes?)))

Yes. Unlike us, there are large populations scattered over a large area - here, 80 percent already live in cities.

[Leontrotsky]

But I don't think so))) America is a small country, so it has no chance. We'll cover the whole country. But our regions in Siberia, where you can walk for weeks and not see human habitation, may well survive)))

[your1970]

Quote: Leontrotsky

But our areas in Siberia, where you can walk for weeks and not see human habitation, may well survive)))

Siberia, the Far East, part of the Urals will all be preserved - the problem is that there there is nobody to preserve and revive the country. There is practically no population there

[Leontrotsky]

Well, those who survive will be able to settle there. But in the States there will be nowhere to open new colonies)))

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

Yes. Unlike us, there are large populations scattered over a large area.

A strange assumption. Considering that their population is twice as big, and the area of ​​the country is twice as small. Moreover, they have more urbanization. NY and Los Angeles alone are worth something. Our Moscow and St. Petersburg are as far from them as the Moon.

[your1970]

Quote: Zoer

Quote: your1970

Yes. Unlike us, there are large populations scattered over a large area.

A strange assumption. Considering that their population is twice as big, and the area of ​​the country is twice as small. Moreover, they have more urbanization. NY and Los Angeles alone are worth something. Our Moscow and St. Petersburg are as far from them as the Moon.

persuaded - I don’t feel sorry for New York or Los Angeles - let them die...

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

"Russia is governed directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists" ©

So, the Lord God is a mediocre manager)))

Quote: your1970

The joke appeared in Soviet times, and if it appeared now, it would mean the end of the Russian Federation.

This joke never disappeared. It's just that its relevance is through the roof again.

[FoBoss_VM]

In my humble opinion, only the execution of the entire top management with the complete confiscation of everything stolen, together with the same actions in the Ministry of Industry and Trade headed by Denis Manturov, can somehow move the matter forward. The main and first problem of Russia is that they steal... This can only be cured by the fear of death.

[Dilettante grandfather]

In my humble opinion, only the execution of the entire top management with the complete confiscation of everything stolen, together with the same actions in the Ministry of Industry and Trade headed by Denis Manturov, can somehow move the matter forward. The main and first problem of Russia is that they steal... This can only be cured by the fear of death.

I would say this: the deadlines must be strict, no shifts should be envisaged. If you fail, return everything to the budget, down to the last penny. And only then - execution.

[Machito]

After this article I remember Garik Kharlamov and his FOUR TRACTORS. From domestic components.
-What four million tractors?
-No. Only four.

[dementor873]

I'll tell you more. Two tractors! Just two!

[Machito]

Quote: dementor873

I'll tell you more. Two tractors! Just two!

In the end, there was only one tractor instead of one million. From domestic components. Only the fatherland is not ours. The tractor broke down when leaving the factory. The funds were spent.

[Leontrotsky]

I advise you to go to the PTZ or Rostselmash website before talking about tractors. In our agricultural sector, 61% of tractors are domestic. In the States, this percentage will be different. By the way, Rostselmash sells its products to the States as well.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I would say this: the deadlines must be strict, no shifts should be envisaged. If you fail, return everything to the budget, down to the last penny. And only then - execution.

This will not achieve anything. Because:
1. Our capitalist government lives on another planet. There they have everything in order with planes, salaries, ecologically clean food, medicine, education, etc., etc.
2. As the best president of our planet, our guarantor of the constitution, said, the damned communists, led by V.I. Lenin and the bloody ghoul I.V. Stalin, are to blame for everything.
3. The most talented thieves-managers headed by the guarantor, who destroyed 70 factories and plants in Russia. They destroyed education, science, engineers, and most importantly - the working class.
4. In Russia there is capitalism, which will finally destroy our country within the next 10-15 years. And there is no need for airplanes.

[realist]

I agree! First we need to raise children who want to work (as engineers or workers), then we need to give them an education. Then we need to teach them to work, give them normal means of production, and then in 20 years we will be able to compete in development and in another 5 years in production. But for now we need to solve the issue of childbirth, more than 2 children per family.....

[Surgeon_XXX]

How much money to give birth to children? One child is already an expensive pleasure - 8 years of the wife's income. Plus the costs of the child and the wife from the man's income. And then, education, an apartment for the child...

[dnestr74]

With the money you earn, limit your desires and raise a child, and capital and this and that, before they didn’t pay a damn thing and had children!

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: dnestr74

With the money you earn, limit your desires and raise a child, and capital and this and that, before they didn’t pay a damn thing and had children!

Dear Sir! My main wish is - housing - is it too much? And I didn't get anything from my grandmothers, now I have it - after 40, so I needed to have more children, and not earn money for housing, it turns out? And where would we all live?

[your1970]

Quote: 2 level advisor

Quote: dnestr74

With the money you earn, limit your desires and raise a child, and capital and this and that, before they didn’t pay a damn thing and had children!

Dear Sir! My main wish is - housing - is it too much? And I didn't get anything from my grandmothers, now I have it - after 40, so I needed to have more children, and not earn money for housing, it turns out? And where would we all live?

Simple boring Soviet times - 12 children, parents and grandmother in a 68 sq. m. house in the village. Then a house of 102 sq. m.
Grandfather's salary was 32 rubles after the 1962 reform.
Technology of education - the grandfather came to school once a week, listened to the teachers, drove his herd into a corner and beat (obscenely) crosswise with a badik (he was wounded in the war) everyone at once on the head. The teachers complained only about major failures, the children knew that for the mischief of one they would all get it, so they themselves drove their brothers/sisters. The result - 2 chairmen of collective farms, a professor-teacher at the university, veterinarians, engineers, a father-in-law - a careless person and a slob - for 10 years he occupied the first place in the region (!!!) in harvesting.
Nowadays, Grandpa would have been jailed forever just for a badik, and would have been deprived of parental rights immediately after the birth of another child...

And when people start THINKING What is needed for children

Quote: Surgeon_XXX

8 years from the wife's income. Plus expenses for the child and the wife from the man's income. And then, education, an apartment for the child.

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

airplanes, salaries, organic food, medicine, education

- children will not be...
There is no direct correlation with income or square meters of housing - none of the billionaires (except Arabs) have more than 7 children - my grandfather was apparently richer than the billionaires by as many as 5 children...

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: your1970

Simple boring Soviet times - 12 children, parents and grandmother in a 68 sq. m. house in the village. Then a house of 102 sq. m.
Grandfather's salary was 32 rubles after the 1962 reform.

And do you live in the village yourself? And why are you sending me there? I am a purely city dweller, with a city profession, having served in the RF Armed Forces until I was 30, and why would I go to the village, and even after I was 30? Moreover, a house in a good village is not cheap, i.e. should I move to some farmstead called "Vyselki", where there is not even a school? It's not that I can't imagine my life without 3 or more children.. and it especially gets me when those who once received free housing in the city send you to the village to "give birth".. Yes, I would have made 3 in the city, if I had housing earlier..

[your1970]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Do you live in a village yourself?

I live in the middle of nowhere - from me to "to the province to my aunt in the wilderness - to Saratov" - 200 km - the military received a bonus here for the desert; now here a year is equivalent to a year and a half.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

free housing in the city

- never was and never will be. The house in the village was bought on credit

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

I can't imagine my life without 3 or more children.

This is one of the main problems - to think about children. My father-in-law did not think about children ("how to teach them, who they will be, how to leave an apartment to each of them, what clubs to take them to, and how much money is needed for them, etc.") - he simply made children.
As soon as the population began to think about the future of their children, there were 1-2 children, rarely 3.
It would seem that in comparison with the 1940-50-60s (when small children went to the steppe in the morning for greenery - to catch up with breakfast - By the way, will you be able to let your children go to the steppe now (there are no guest workers there - there is no one there)? But then it was a normal day and children 3-4-5-6 years old would go) - 1970-80 were well-fed, they were given housing, there were still products, there was a prospect ahead - and there were 1-2 children, rarely 3.
I am almost 100% sure that if we gave you free housing now and 30 per child per month, you would not have 000-5-6 children.
Because you will think...

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: your1970

I am almost 100% sure that if we gave you free housing now and 30 per child per month, you would not have 000-5-6 children.

5-6-7, of course not, but 3x is quite possible, if the house is private... and I don't need housing for free... at least on human terms with a mortgage... at 2-3% or just in installments... then you don't even need maternity capital...

[your1970]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

but 3x is quite okay, yes, if private house..

In the city .....
After which you (conditional!!!) say after the first child - "I need a car, I need to take the child to school and clubs, aaaa - there are traffic jams in the morning near the school and in the evening there are traffic jams everywhere because EVERYTHING (you won't be the only one giving birth - the whole country will have to) are going to their PRIVATE houses in the suburbs"....
And that's it - you'll give birth to one more child at most. No more....

As soon as parents start to put conditions (housing, transport, salary, clubs, prospects, etc.) birth of children - there will be no children there. Ancestors gave birth to children - without setting conditions - just "We'll give birth and somehow let's grow".

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

As soon as parents start setting conditions(

So they immediately stop breeding poverty and refuseniks. This is called RESPONSIBLE planning. And not this nonsense - there will be a bunny. There will be a lawn. And in the USSR, the population began to grow when they began to build Khrushchev-era buildings en masse and give them to people. In the village, you say? And where is that village in the Russian Federation now? There isn't one, it died out, almost ALL of it! There is no work in those villages, no means of subsistence. That is why everyone goes to the cities, abandoning their ancestral homes, and settles in human anthills.
Without a BASIC minimum, the population does not reproduce. Of course, you can cite the example of the SrAsians. But are you absolutely sure that we want to build such a society? Wild and backward for hundreds of years? Illiterate, half-starved, embittered and with the mentality of parasitic locusts? I don't want to live in such a society at all.

[your1970]

Quote: Zoer

So they immediately stop breeding poverty and refuseniks. This is called RESPONSIBLE planning. And not this nonsense - there will be a bunny. There will be a lawn. And in the USSR the population began to grow when they started to build Khrushchev-era buildings en masse and give them to people.

and then by the end of the 1970s this growth ended - because responsible planning began. Yeah...

Quote: your1970

1970-80 were well-fed, they provided housing, there was food, there was a future ahead - and there were 1-2 children, rarely 3.

Quote: Zoer

But are you absolutely sure that we want to build such a society? Wild and backward by hundreds of years? Illiterate, half-starved, embittered and with the mentality of parasitic locusts?

- I have been observing Central Asians all my life - I live on the border of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. As soon as the second one grew up CITY generation - their children have 1-2-3 children, no more. Chechens who moved here in the 1970s - now their grandchildren have 1-2 children, no one even has 3.
The same thing is happening all over the world - as soon as the conditions are more or less civilized and you don't have to eat Lumumba for dinner, that's it - two and a bit children. The need for children as a means of existence disappears.

Quote: Zoer

I never want to live in such a society.

-and I don't want-the problem is that it can't be solved by handing out apartments. People don't reproduce in comfort-it relaxes

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

and then by the end of the 1970s this growth ended - because responsible planning began. Yeah...

No need to make things up!!! This growth ended in 87, when food stamps began.

[your1970]

Quote: Zoer

Quote: your1970

and then by the end of the 1970s this growth ended - because responsible planning began. Yeah...

No need to make things up!!! This growth ended in 87, when food stamps began.

None of the 3 classes in my parallel had 4 children, 3 there were several - out of 80 people. The majority of classmates had 1-2 people in a family
1970 year of birth

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

None of the 3 classes in my parallel had 4 children, 3 there were several - out of 80 people. The majority of classmates had 1-2 people in a family
Born in 1970

So, in your areas they didn't build new microdistricts. In my parallel there were 6 first grades, up to the letter E. and the second school was built in the microdistrict.
And there are statistics, why your local insinuations?

[your1970]

Quote: Zoer

And there are statistics, why your local insinuations?

Quote: Zoer

. Of course you can give the example of the Srazians.

Didn't you know that there were Central Asians in the USSR? ? Which gave statistics?
According to your schedule, we have it now. in the USSR- 4.4 child.
Quite a hefty figure
The conversation was only about the Russian Federation and statistics, if taken, then about the RSFSR.
But there everything is not so funny.

Quote: Zoer

In my parallel there were 6 first grades, up to the letter E and the second school

Kuban, Krasnodar Krai or Moscow - there are still 10-15 classes there.
I wrote about my Saratov region.

[Zoer]

Quote: your1970

Didn't you know that in the USSR there were Central Asians belay? Who gave statistics?

Well, you shouldn't act like a snake in a frying pan))) The dynamics are exactly the same in the RSFSR.

Quote: your1970

According to your schedule, we currently have 4.4 belay children on the territory of the USSR.

According to the chart I attached, 2015 million children were born in the CIS countries in 4,4. What do you think is wrong?

Quote: your1970

The conversation was only about the Russian Federation and statistics, if taken, then about the RSFSR.
But there everything is not so funny.

Lying again !!!

[realist]

probably the demographic problem would be solved by a decision to pay a salary to women who stay with a child at least until school, and a real salary and not a handout, for example two living wages for each child... but this will not happen, it is easier to bring in migrants, no one is thinking long-term, it is in the Emirates that there is a king, but we don’t!

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: realist

Then they need to be educated. Then they need to be taught to work, given normal means of production, and then in 20 years we will be able to compete in development and in another 5 years in production. But for now we need to solve the issue of childbearing, more than 2 children per family.....

There are still a lot of engineers graduating... the question is different - where can they work, and where can they get a decent salary... but there are no enterprises or factories for millions of new engineers...

[realist]

There are many graduates, but not all of them go to work in their profession, many want quick money. My youngest son graduated from the institute and went to work as an engineer at a factory, the salary is 60 rubles, and his colleague from the institute went into trade, the salary there is 85 ....

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: realist

but not everyone goes to work in their profession, many want quick money. my youngest son graduated from college and went to work as an engineer at a factory, the salary is 60 rubles, and his colleague from the college went into trade, the salary there is 85 ....

There is such a problem too and moreover, trade gets more than ANY profession at the beginning... the question is, all the engineers who graduate will want to work in their specialty - and a quarter won't be able to get a job... there's nowhere... to make a salary of 100 out of thin air - the cost price will increase, and our goods are already industrial - the majority, uncompetitive today... it would seem that import substitution would help development, but NO...

[kit88]

Quote: realist

we need to raise children who want to work

And how to do this in families of SALES MANAGERS?
Just listen to the FM radio in the morning, and EVERYONE is rushing to work in the OFFICE, no one is going to the factory.
And children want to be bloggers, not even managers, because they have to go to work, but rather sit at home, shoot videos, receive donations... And this is considered cool!
And where here should an engineer or a worker be born?
Here either the salaries of the working class should be raised by an order of magnitude, which sounds ridiculous. Or...
I think they will import from Turkestan. Because they don't have their own.

[bk316]

Here we either need to raise the salaries of the working class by an order of magnitude, which sounds ridiculous.

Why is it funny, actually?
For example (real) cellular companies now need base stations.
As is known, manufacturers can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
We cannot produce our own.
China supplies us, BUT their software does not suit us.
Accordingly, there is now a VERY great need for programmers who can write this software.
How much money do you think they are being offered?

[kit88]

How long has it been since our IT specialists became a working class?
This is an office worker or even a remote worker.
And his work is really highly valued by management.
According to a study by Habr Careers, the median salary of IT specialists in the first half of 2024 was 151 rubles per month

[qwertyui_1]

For example, cellular companies now need base stations.
As is known, manufacturers can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
We cannot produce our own.
China supplies us, BUT their software does not suit us.
Accordingly, now there is a VERY great need for programmers who can write this software.

Base stations are manufactured in Russia. For example, one of the companies is IRTEYA. The software on these stations is also domestic. And this is not the only company. For example, in Zelenograd this year they started manufacturing base stations.

[UA3QHP]

Base stations are manufactured in Russia. For example, one of the companies is IRTEYA. The software on these stations is also domestic.

The Internet knows everything.

[realist]

Of course, existence influences the immature consciousness. I can’t say what to do about it, I don’t have an answer.

[alexoff]

First you need to raise children who want to work (as engineers or workers)

to raise children who would like to study for a long time, it is difficult to work from morning till night and earn a pittance. And all the medals and money will go to the big shots who have known the big people since childhood. Or the children of these big people

[realist]

There are no objections to this. The children of high officials will take the places of high officials.

[man]

Quote: realist

I agree! First we need to raise children who want to work (as engineers or workers), then we need to give them an education. Then we need to teach them to work, give them normal means of production, and then in 20 years we will be able to compete in development and in another 5 years in production. But for now we need to solve the issue of childbirth, more than 2 children per family.....

You are not a realist, you are a dreamer (sad smile)
So they will give us these 25 years...

[realist]

I am a realist, and I am talking about theoretically possible ways to solve the problem. But no one will solve anything. I am sure of this.

[man]

Quote: realist

I am a realist, and I am talking about theoretically possible ways to solve the problem. but no one will decide anything. I am sure of that.

Then you really are a realist, I apologize.

[realist]

Thank you. Life seems to show that in general the Russian authorities are doing nothing to make the electorate live better, they are showing off, solving secondary problems, but the ruble exchange rate is falling, the Central Bank rate is rising, everything is getting more expensive (from potatoes to luxury goods), and they are also bringing in migrants with their families and legalizing them at a rapid pace.....
I feel sad about the future of my homeland.

[man]

Quote: realist

Thank you. Life seems to show that in general the Russian authorities are doing nothing to make the electorate live better, they are showing off, solving secondary problems, but the ruble exchange rate is falling, the Central Bank rate is rising, everything is getting more expensive (from potatoes to luxury goods), and they are also bringing in migrants with their families and legalizing them at a rapid pace.....
I feel sad about the future of my homeland.

it's hard to disagree with you

[realist]

Unfortunately, if I'm wrong somewhere, exaggerating - correct me. I'll be glad to hear an optimist.

[man]

Quote: realist

Unfortunately, if I'm wrong somewhere, exaggerating - correct me. I'll be glad to hear an optimist.

You know, I understand that I contradict myself... but... I'll copy from myself what I just said in another thread:
You know, I'm not very happy with him, to put it mildly... but when I think about what will happen when he leaves... there's a high probability that people will remember his reign and him with tenderness, even despite the war... As I now remember Leonid Ilyich... but I was happy in 1982... I'm a dumb idiot

[realist]

the situation of 1975-1985 and 2000-2025 are very different, then the USSR did not want to deal with consumer goods, and there were some problems in society, today Russia cannot deal with the production of a long list of means of production and so on, well, and gigantic problems have accumulated in society. so the reign of VVP and dear Leonid Ilyich should not be compared, under Leonid Ilyich the children of officials did not always become officials - and today this is an irreversible process and does not depend on the mental abilities of children.

[Dilettante grandfather]

1. Our capitalist government lives on another planet. There they have everything in order with planes, salaries, ecologically clean food, medicine, education, etc., etc.

Well, you know better, comrade Obi Wan...

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

3. The most talented thieves-managers headed by the guarantor, who destroyed 70 factories and plants in Russia. They destroyed education, science, engineers, and most importantly - the working class.

A separate, industrial-oriented Investigative Committee should be created for these capitalist minakhers! And let it deal with the issues of industrial collapse throughout the country! Many are still alive and well, so they can be "skinned", sorted out with complete confiscations and sent to the taiga, collecting dead wood, to the mines, chopping coal and hauling it, until the end of their lives!

[qQQQ]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

If you fail, return everything to the budget, down to the last penny. And then - execution.

This won't do. They will return them indefinitely. Does that mean we should cancel execution? It would be better to execute and check all current and former relatives for income and expenses, and if they don't match, confiscate everything.

[Surgeon_XXX]

Right on target, check your entire social circle and take away from everyone everything that falls outside of their legal earnings.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Surgeon_XXX

the whole circle of friends

That's right, the entire social circle should be checked, regardless of family ties. Now friendship with a thieving official is prestigious, but it should be that even communication is toxic and fraught with consequences.

[Dilettante grandfather]

This won't do. They will return them endlessly. Does that mean that execution should be cancelled?

Well, it seems like we never introduced it, execution by firing squad...

[qQQQ]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

Well, it seems like we never introduced it, execution by firing squad...

This is our problem. It should have been introduced yesterday.

[Dilettante grandfather]

This is our problem. It should have been introduced yesterday.

Even the day before yesterday - they didn't introduce it, so they didn't introduce it. I would be happy to hear a death sentence for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, guilty of crimes. But it doesn't exist. And if it doesn't exist, then there's nothing to talk about.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

And if not, then there is nothing to talk about.

Well, this whole conversation is about nothing. Regarding the sentence of the Supreme Court of Ukraine, there is an opportunity not to bring the case to court due to the ongoing investigations. But there is no such opportunity with corrupt officials because they are protected by the authorities and money. Therefore, for the Supreme Court of Ukraine there is a possibility of fair retribution, but for "effective" managers there is not even theoretically.

[irdidaal]

If only you knew how brazenly they do it. And both the prosecutor's office and the FSB have full control of the information. But... there is no team!
What kind of execution are we talking about? Ourselves?

[bar]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

I would say this: the deadlines must be strict, no shifts should be envisaged. If you fail, return everything to the budget, down to the last penny. And only then - execution.

So what's the bottom line? The money is in the budget, the bodies are buried, but there are still no planes.

[Dilettante grandfather]

So what's the bottom line? The money is in the budget, the bodies are buried, but there are still no planes.

In the end, the money is not spent, and the planes will still be there. Only someone else will make them.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Someone else - who is that? Boeing or Airbus? Maybe the Chinese?

We have enough good engineers. They don't need to be trained, they just need to be promoted. And if they aren't pickled, and if managers who are no slouch in the industry but know how to trade aren't put in charge of the design bureau, then everything will be fine. And the Il-112... Everyone has failures.

[bar]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

We have enough good engineers.

Said it suddenly and bluntly
Where is it enough? Give me the address. I don't see it at my enterprise.

And the Il-112... Everyone has failures.

Failures happen. It's only bad when it's a system.

[karabas-barabas]

It was necessary to at least start developing domestic mechanical engineering back in the fat 2000s, the basis of any industry in general. Motor engineering. Electronics and many other things. Now no engineers will help build airplanes, because other engineers must make all the components for them, and for those, other engineers must build the necessary machines, devices and tools, and all together this is a very global story.

[Russian Bear_2]

First let them return the money, then we can shoot them.

[IVZ]

The main and first problem of Russia is theft... It can only be cured by the fear of death

The main problem of modern life, including all spheres and production in particular, is blatmeisterism and, as a consequence, management incompetence, when work is replaced by its imitation, and the process is more important than the result of this process. Now this is more important than theft.

[moscowp]

I don't want to justify any management, but it was definitely not management that designed the Superjet's hydraulic system. On the other hand, the current situation of the half-collapsed aviation industry and problems with the engineering and design staff is the result of someone's management

[Serg koma]

Quote: moscowp

but it was certainly not management that designed the Superjet's hydraulic system.

Management initially reformed the education system, "optimized" production capacities and areas, replaced/substituted the so-called "values" of life, such as the prestige of labor professions for "artists", bloggers, officials, etc. Hence consumer education (education based on the use of (other people's knowledge) of automated data banks), and low qualifications of direct production management, a decrease in the quality of production associated with the loss of continuity, mentoring, and competitiveness of the primary link producing material values.
Watch TV, read the media - the main characters are not turners, miners, field workers, engineers and geologists, but the same ones from "Dom2"... And compare with the time when management (those managers) sat in the Council of People's Commissars, and airplanes/tanks, etc. were designed within a month. The excuse about the complexity of modern technology - and they only had a slide rule, knowledge of strength of materials and applied sciences, plus the staff of developers was incomparably smaller compared to today's (especially in terms of management ), so you can put an equal sign between tasks of different times.
And you say management has nothing to do with leaking hydraulics.

[bk316]

It was definitely not management that designed the Superjet's hydraulic system.

I'll say more, it wasn't the managers who put it together.
But of course, management is responsible for personnel and business processes.

However, it seems to me that everything is clear with the Civil Aviation: 30 years ago, the top management decided that we did not need our own civil aircraft and heroically, despite everything that happened, adhered to this policy for 25 years. Over 25 years, the competences have been lost almost completely.
Here again it will take 20 years for everything to work.

[paul3390]

The main problem of modern life

No. The main problem is the complete irresponsibility of the ruling elite for any of its actions... Starting from the very top. Because, excuse me, removal from a lucrative position is not at all a severe punishment for a catastrophically failed assignment and billions wasted.

And even the occasional show trials don't convince me at all. Does anyone believe that all these people will serve out their entire sentences for my gold in Kolyma? Right! They'll sit for a bit in comfortable conditions and get out on parole. Who would refuse to serve, say, 100 million, or even five, in such conditions? But then - even your grandchildren are provided for. What kind of punishment is that?

[Revolver]

Quote: paul3390

Who would refuse, we say? million for 100 serve even a five-year sentence in such conditions?

And it depends on what 100 million.

[paul3390]

Well, of course you have different prices there, but I would agree to pay rubles too...

[Dmitry Semashko]

Please forgive me, but if the sum of 100 million seems like some kind of fantasy to you, then I'm afraid I'll just kill you with the following personal experience. From 2008 to 2012, I was a mid-level official. My monthly income was 350.000 euros. Which is now 35 million per month at the exchange rate. All the best to you now.

[paul3390]

Why fantasy right away? It's just that I personally lack about that much to solve my pressing problems. So why doesn't it follow that I'm a beggar and have no money at all?

But if you were an official in Russia with such a salary, then I understand why everything is so shitty here...

[Dmitry Semashko]

Well, I wrote this so frankly so that you would understand the true scale of the disaster. 100 million is just ridiculous. And the shitty situation in our country is definitely not because of me. Because of me, things have even gotten a little better in some ways. But that's a completely different story.

[paul3390]

Well, you must understand that a country in which there is such a colossal gap in income between managers and workers cannot, in principle, exist for long?

[Dmitry Semashko]

Of course! But when I was shouting about it here and pointing out the real culprit of such a situation in the country, trying to convey to the local public that the King has no clothes!!! then my various accounts were blocked by admins. And in 2016 I met Ivanov (Shoigu's deputy) and shared my personal experience of communicating ($$$$$) with this character and suggested that without the knowledge of his immediate superior, such vigorous activity of Ivanov is in principle impossible, then I was pelted with slippers, called a tsipso, a khokhol, a bot and it's good that at least they didn't force me to play with a grenade at an altitude of 10000 meters. After that, I just waited until our people at least saw the light a little, and now I see that local admins themselves are not against developing the theme of the naked King. You can't hide an awl in a sack, the truth will always come out.

[bk316]

But if you were an official in Russia with such a salary, then I understand why everything is so shitty here...

Well, there are two possible options here,
Option 1 - this is a poor guy from Zhmerynka, getting by on pennies from the Central Inspectorate of Socialist Labor.
Option 2 is a relocator who has lost 90% of his earnings and is embittered at the Russian Federation, where there is no place for him, and has added one zero to his salary.

Why is that so, because I personally know both high-ranking officials and multi-millionaires (by the way, it turned out that I also earned my first million).
Believe me, they simply don’t have time, and it’s not interesting to sit on VO.

[bk316]

The main problem is the complete irresponsibility of the ruling elite for any of its actions...

No, close, but no. Why the elite?
People stop being responsible for their actions and words.
Elite, non-elite, public sector employees, businessmen, VO readers.

[paul3390]

And it all starts with her. If the top ones can do it, how can you make the bottom ones not do it?

[bk316]

And it all starts with her.

Unfortunately, no. It would be nice if it were so, but it is impossible.
Because the elite doesn’t fall from the sky.
The elite grows out of ordinary people, if they have been accustomed to irresponsibility since childhood, they will continue to behave this way.

[bk316]

Responsibility cannot be forced, it can only be instilled so that it becomes a habit.
Believe me, as the head of a team of programmers, I know this for sure.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: bk316

The elite grows out of ordinary people, if they have been accustomed to irresponsibility since childhood, they will continue to behave this way.

When there are no social elevators and "those at the top" promote each other and their children to all key positions, then how can we talk about the fact that an elite of ordinary people is emerging??? And this has been going on since the USSR, the children of district committees, regional committees, diplomatic missions, generals, and directors of enterprises are now of age and their places are taken by their children, and not by professionals through a tough competition, and their children are already looking for places for their grandchildren, while the latter are studying in Switzerland, France, America, smashing expensive cars while on drugs. Since childhood, they have become accustomed to impunity, connections, and the fact that they are not mere mortals.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

The main and first problem of Russia is stealing.

It seems to me that, in this case, this is secondary. And in the first place, again, in this case, is still the incompetence of the management of both Rosaviatsia and the management of aircraft manufacturers. All these "managers" are completely effective managers and not a single aircraft engineer. It is time to move from the carrot of their highest " "salaries" (in quotes because the payment is not earned), to the stick with the confiscation of what they have earned through "backbreaking" "labor". And they fear confiscation more than anything. And not transfer them to another management position, but, without fail, transfer them in the same plant to a position no higher than a site foreman. Personnel must be protected.

[PROXOR]

Lavrenty Pavlovich must be resurrected.

[bayard]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

only executions of the entire top management with complete confiscation of everything stolen, coupled with the same actions in the Ministry of Industry and Trade

And where to get others? They did not cultivate others.

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

led by Denis Manturov

This guy is like Chubais - untouchable, untriable, irremovable. Of course, they yanked him out of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, but where to? For a promotion.
It was his efforts that led to the import substitution of the MS-21, which resulted in it being overweight by several tons (they say up to 7 tons). I don't know, maybe there are microcircuits in cast iron cases, but that's beyond the realm of consciousness and understanding.

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

steal

And they don't respond in any way.
For that, traitors jumped, for that, the USSR was killed. For that, so that they would rob and steal, and so that none of them would go to jail.

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

This can only be cured by the fear of death.

The parasite has no brain, that's why they don't know fear. It's some kind of swarm structure of parasites under the control of some "decision-making center". A kind of planetary deep state. And "ours" are also secondary in terms of subordination.

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

The main and first trouble of Russia

Lack of sovereignty.

[BAT-MENT]

I agree with you completely, only mass executions will save Russia.

[bar]

My IMHO, only executions

Problems like these cannot be solved so simply with money and executions alone. An entire industry has been lost, along with equipment and specialists. And what's worse is that the aviation design school has been lost (remember the ill-fated Il-112). It will take years to restore all of this. Executions will not help here, rather they will make things worse. There will be no one left at all.

[Lad]

Why executions? Is it just to let off steam? It's easy to talk about executions when you're sitting on the couch and not responsible for this issue. But what about other countries? Well, those where there are no executions, and, on the contrary, there are planes? There is an alternative to executions. But for this, the system needs to be changed. And if we go down the path of executions, there will be so many splinters that they will cover even such a large country. And in the end, it will only get worse. For everyone.

[George Sviridov]

I beg you, as a person who worked in the Ministry of Industry and Trade for 4 years, I can responsibly state that 10-15 times more money is buried, lost, destroyed - used ineffectively than is stolen...
And we need to work more here...
Well, you caught someone stealing a hundred million, that's bad, but at that very moment a bajillion or one and a half are simply lost...
And it will be like this until production workers start managing production, until builders start managing construction, and not managerial managers, not financiers, not lawyers, but engineers... As in the USSR, the director of the plant is the chief designer, it is one person...
It is impossible to say that they do not steal, but the amounts there compared to those that are allocated are simply ridiculous and essentially do not affect anything... But precisely during development, yes, the efficiency is no more than 15-20%...
That is, they allocate 280 billion, 50 billion will go into business, 5 billion will be stolen, and the remaining 225 billion will simply be thrown in the trash... In this regard, if they had stolen it, but not taken it out of the country, it would have been better...

[Yuriy Filatov]

It's not just that. There's a huge lag between decisions about a project and its implementation.

[your1970]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

The main and first problem of Russia is theft... It can only be cured by the fear of death

So, there was a lot of theft in the USSR by 1937?

[Yuriy Filatov]

Are you suggesting that Oreshnik work through the State Duma?!
This system of chaos was built from above for 30 years, supposedly there will be effective business through competition. Effective companies will remain, ineffective ones will leave... As a result, the system of competition led to total monopoly and degradation

[Zoer]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

My IMHO, only executions of the entire top management with complete confiscation of all stolen goods

What are you doing!? Do you want to destroy the vertical of power? You are saying extremist things!!!

[Lech from Android.]

I immediately remembered the saboteur Gaidar, Khristenko and our unforgettable Dmitry Anatolyevich.

In June 2011, Dmitry Anatolyevich ordered that all Tu-134 aircraft be withdrawn from regular service by 2012: "I have ordered that preparations be made for the accelerated withdrawal of the Tu-134 from service as a whole. It is time to do this." - the final "shot"!

He-he... Dmitry Anatolyevich, what goes around comes around.
Although there is a permanent air route above my head...every few minutes, planes of various classes fly by...helicopters are getting on my nerves with training flights, privateers are darting back and forth on their jalopies.
Not everything is as bad as in the article.
Wait and see.

[Goldmitro]

Lech from Android

I immediately remembered the saboteur Gaidar, Khristenko and our unforgettable Dmitry Anatolyevich.
In June 2011, Dmitry Anatolyevich ordered that all Tu-134 aircraft be withdrawn from regular service by 2012: "....

Starting with the marked idiot with provincial thinking and continuing with the adorer of America with his "God bless America" ​​(it's good if he blurted it out with a "hangover"), the ruling liberals, to please the West, on his "recommendation", did everything to destroy our industry and, first of all, the Aviation Industry under the slogan "why suffer, rack your brains, if necessary - we will buy everything in the West and better than ours". And they successfully destroyed everything and stopped training engineers - there is nothing to design and produce now. And for buying and selling, managers are now needed, who began to mold in huge quantities. Their main task is not to produce, but to profitably manage cash flows. Therefore, all the considerable funds allocated by the state to the Aviation Industry have been successfully spent! And there are still no planes. And until the government understands that the top managers imposed on us are top chatterboxes, often thieves, and that instead of them we urgently need to train engineers, we need professional specialists competent in aircraft construction, nothing will change!

[Scipio]

Absolutely not surprising! What else could we come up with with such a guide? Why produce it ourselves if you can buy it! Yeah... Good luck

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

As the would-be reformer Gaidar said: "We'll buy planes from Boeing. I made a deal." Civil aviation has been falling apart for 30 years. And only two airports were working - Moscow and St. Petersburg. That's the result. Nothing surprising. And most importantly - there are no guilty parties.

[Oldrover]

Gaidar was in the government for only a short time and now for more than 20 years completely different people are in charge, and moreover one of these people who have been at the helm for more than 20 years said something like this:

At an extended meeting of the Board of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin spoke out against total import substitution and considers it necessary only in strategically important sectors of the economy.
“I don’t think that import substitution is an end in itself,” Putin said.

According to the Prime Minister, it is also unacceptable to talk about goods being produced in Russia that are no worse than those produced abroad.

"This is already a vicious approach to solving the problem of innovative development. Which means no worse. We should do it cheaper and better. Or not do it at all. Maybe it would be easier to buy?", the prime minister noted.

But for some reason the public likes to remember Gaidar.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

It's painful to read all this. Wherever you look, there's a wedge everywhere. And the most surprising thing is that the cells are empty. And everyone is "innocent" and everyone is "moving to another job". I have a feeling that if Prigozhin hadn't reared up with his fighters, our Ministry of Defense would still be living the high life and building palaces.

[16112014nk]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

and built palaces.

Still under construction. Shoygi's daughter

Ksenia Shoigu is building a resort at the "gates of NATO"

Ksenia Shoigu said that the Russian fleet cultural zone will be restored in Kronstadt and two hotels will be built.

With whose money?

[Il'nur]

The regional transport sector is practically dead

The author just woke up today, this situation has been like this for a long time, and it has been known for a long time...

[malyvalv]

Well, what did you expect? We need SU-34, SU-35 first and foremost, not Superjets and MC-21. After all, they are made at the same factories. There seem to be no problems with the production of SU-34, SU-35, and that is already very good.
There is not enough money for everything. We need electronic warfare, processors, communications, drones, tanks, equipment for the front, and much, much more. Putin recently said that we make more missiles than the rest of the world. That makes me happy.
It is naive to think that all this will not affect the civilian automobile and aviation industries.
The choice is either to travel by train instead of planes or to fly by planes and receive strikes from long-range NATO missiles on airfields. Or a nuclear Armageddon if neither is acceptable.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Well, what did you expect? We need SU-34, SU-35 first and foremost, not Superjets and MC-21. After all, they are made at the same factories. There seem to be no problems with the production of SU-34, SU-35, and that is already very good.

That's not the point. The point is that they promised to set up production. And they didn't do it. It's simple: if you promised, do it, but do it. If you couldn't, return the money you received and go under investigation.

There isn't enough money for everything either.

Did you read the article carefully, or did you just skim it?

It is clear that Tupolev and Yakovlev failed to cope with the tasks set. And then Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin signed another order to allocate 283,3 billion rubles from the National Welfare Fund for the development of the Russian aviation industry. And this is not the first such allocation, it should be noted..

[malyvalv]

Any manager has no choice if an increased defense order is handed down from above. Only to refuse promises. And defense orders are an unpredictable thing during a war.
Personally, I strongly doubt that even if assembly plants could assemble planes, they would receive engines in conditions when frontline aviation works day and night. Engines do not have an infinite resource. They need to be replaced.
283 yards is not a huge amount for everything. Besides assembly, there are engines and electronics and titanium and composites. A lot, a lot of everything. And a lot of everything was needed yesterday.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Any manager has no choice if an increased defense order is handed down from above. Only to refuse promises.

There is always a choice. In order not to back down from promises, they simply should not be given, taking beautiful figures out of thin air. An example is the promised production of Tu-96 and 214s. Kazan, by the way, does not participate in the production of fighters and frontline bombers. The production of Tu-160s is not required for the SVO. I do not think that the 160s are now so necessary that all efforts are thrown specifically at their production. Even in the current reality, when the threat of a nuclear conflict is quite high. Because in the exchange of blows they will play an auxiliary role - the Strategic Missile Forces will do the main thing.

[malyvalv]

The Tu-160 is not needed for the SVO. And it doesn't matter that we've already reached the Cuban Missile Crisis No. 2.
And then suddenly they are not needed.

Because in the exchange of blows they will play a supporting role - the Strategic Missile Forces will do the main thing.

Well, well. A strategist, not an amateur.
In Kazan they not only make them from scratch but also modify them very seriously. Here we still need to see what is more important in this situation - a couple of Su-34s or one modified Tu-160.

[Surgeon_XXX]

What they do there from scratch, don't pull the wool over their eyes, they do everything from the Soviet era.

[Dilettante grandfather]

The Tu-160 is not needed for the SVO. And it doesn't matter that we've already reached the Cuban Missile Crisis No. 2.

I repeat: the main blow will be delivered by missiles. Long-range bombers play a secondary role due to their vulnerability both at airfields and in the air. The basis of the nuclear deterrent forces is the Strategic Missile Forces. Submarines and aviation are an important link, but only an addition to the Strategic Missile Forces.

[malyvalv]

That's it - the basis of the Strategic Missile Forces and that's it. Where do you amateurs come from? Why do you think that our Ministry of Defense is full of idiots?
The enemy has long mastered defense against the Strategic Missile Forces using exoatmospheric interception. It is easily detected. The missile flies for a long time due to the distance. Not every missile can overcome it. And then only with a massive strike. And maybe not a single one.
Each component of the nuclear triad has its pros and cons. And no one knows for sure which component will work more effectively. That is why equal attention is paid to all components.
But judging by the minuses here on VO, everyone knows everything better than MO.

[Dilettante grandfather]

First, calculate the number of each component of the nuclear triad. The ratio of LBA and land-based complexes. The number of warheads on submarines. Then analyze.

Each component of the nuclear triad has its pros and cons. And no one knows for sure which component will work more effectively.

And no one argues with that. But the efficiency will also depend on the quantity. The more products, the greater the chances of overcoming the missile defense. I can say for sure that at least 90% of all carriers, including silos, will be able to launch. But there are simply more ground-based complexes. And if a silo is stationary, then catching mobile ones with a preemptive strike is very problematic. Submarines will be under pressure from enemy fleets. Long-range air defense systems - takeoff and flight direction are constantly monitored via satellites. And mobile complexes still need to be calculated. They do not say that they are specifically a mobile complex. A machine, yes. A large one - undoubtedly. And that's all.

[malyvalv]

All you do is emphasize the advantages of one species, forgetting about the advantages of other species.
ICBMs are detected by satellites and over-the-horizon radars from the very start and it is perfectly clear where they are flying. In addition, they fly for a long time. There is time to take measures. There may be many ICBMs, but their coefficient of overcoming missile defense systems will be the lowest. For conventional ICBMs. Avangard and Sarmat are a different story, but there are few of them.
The most dangerous are submarines. It is no coincidence that countries like France and England only have submarines, but no ICBMs or strategic aircraft. The launch area is not known in advance, the approach time is the shortest, the power is the greatest.
Airplanes only register their takeoff. But where they fly next is impossible to track. The route of cruise missiles is also not known in advance. A cruise missile is detected only 100-150 km away. But destroying them is not a problem if there is enemy air defense aircraft in the air. But there are many cruise missiles and aircraft are essentially reusable. But this is if the airfields were protected.
In short, there are a ton of nuances there and more. And it's not for us to decide what the experts are doing right and what they're not.

[Dilettante grandfather]

In short, there are a ton of nuances there and more

There are many nuances, I don’t argue.

The most dangerous are submarines. It is no coincidence that countries like France and England only have submarines, but no ICBMs or strategic aircraft.

There is a different situation there. The British tried to create strategic bombers. They did not succeed very well. It seems that they had the "Vulcan" in service. By the way, the British have few submarines. And they do not have their own nuclear weapons - only American ones. The French have their own, but I do not see an armada of submarines there either. They choose carriers based on what is available, and not on what can be designed and built. Well, and - what the owners in Washington will allow.

The planes only register their takeoff. But where they fly next is impossible to track.

Aircraft are detected by radars. Including the radars of the AUG and AWACS aircraft. And if all our strategists have left the airfields, and the situation in the world is tense - guess what the enemy will do? Control the situation by all available means. And the AUG will be as close to our shores as possible. By the way, they have early warning aircraft. As part of the air wing.
And about the submarines... There will be a hunter for each one, and more than one. For both theirs and ours.
In short, I think our chess players will be better than the American ones.

[malyvalv]

Better not better everyone considers probabilities. Considering a bunch of things that we are not supposed to know. Therefore, if they say that Tu-160s are needed and spend money on them - then they are needed.

[osp]

The takeoff of strategic bombers is recorded by satellites.
Approximate flight routes will also be calculated.
Next, AWACS aircraft and fighters will be launched from airfields in Canada, Greenland and Alaska.
They will start looking for launched cruise missiles.
And some of it will be found even if ground-based radars in Canada are partially suppressed.

As for the US missile defense system (position area in Alaska, GBI system), this system should not be underestimated.
This is a strategic missile defense system with a high altitude of exoatmospheric interception and a launch range of anti-missiles.
What are its capabilities against modern Russian ICBMs (there are very few of them at the moment) is a big question.
But it will be quite capable of repelling an attack by single-block Topol missiles.
Not a massive one of course, but a dozen or two easily.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Grandpa, I agree with you. There's nothing to promise, just report cheerfully. I had a boss who liked to report cheerfully, without even asking his subordinates. I warned him twice. The third time, I set him up so badly that the poor thing was shaking and turning pale. Nothing. He stopped reporting. He ran to get approval beforehand.

[Dilettante grandfather]

There is nothing to promise, just report cheerfully... I had a boss who liked to report cheerfully, without even asking his subordinates.

Well, let's put it this way: the boss himself must know the whole situation. All work processes. And know what can be done, and what, no matter how much he wants to, cannot. And to consult with subordinates... He can, but he is not obliged to.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

I am not asking for advice. But I am obliged to know what is going on, what the prospects are. You answered the same yourself.

[Surgeon_XXX]

It is also necessary to use the engine resource usefully. How many videos of Su-25, Su-34, Ka-52 and Mi-28 launching from the pitching of the Nursa, shooting sparrows with a cannon. And videos where there is one line of trenches, and around for kilometers there are shell craters. It is necessary to deal with those who shoot and where they shoot. And to attract.

[malyvalv]

Yes, exactly. These generals from the Ministry of Defense should be brought to justice because they do not allow such talented experts from the Military District to develop. With them, Kyiv was definitely ours in 3 days.

[Surgeon_XXX]

People like you, who cover for such generals, need to be brought in.

[Dmitry Semashko]

Putin V.V. covers such generals. He also covers Manturov, Shoigu, Slyusar and many, many other talented managers.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

It is also necessary to use the engine resource usefully. How many videos of Su-25, Su-34, Ka-52 and Mi-28 launching from the pitching of the Nursa, shooting sparrows with a cannon. And videos where there is one line of trenches, and around for kilometers there are shell craters. It is necessary to deal with those who shoot and where they shoot. And to attract.

So, the helicopter crews are to blame for the lack of adequate supply of ATGMs?

[Surgeon_XXX]

Who spoke for the helicopter crews?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Who spoke for the helicopter crews?

Yes, that's it.

We need to deal with those who are shooting and where they are shooting. And bring them to justice.

This is definitely about the crews.

[Surgeon_XXX]

This is about the work of artillery and reconnaissance systems.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

This is about the work of artillery and reconnaissance systems.

Where is this about artillery and reconnaissance systems?

It is also necessary to use the engine resource usefully. How many videos of Su-25, Su-34, Ka-52 and Mi-28 launching from the pitching of the Nursa, shooting sparrows with a cannon. And videos where there is one line of trenches, and around for kilometers there are shell craters. It is necessary to deal with those who shoot and where they shoot. And to attract.

[Surgeon_XXX]

What type of ammunition leaves hundreds of craters around the trenches? Artillery, of course. Who adjusts the fire? Intelligence. Why can't you turn on your brain?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

What type of ammunition leaves hundreds of craters around the trenches? Artillery, of course. Who adjusts the fire? Intelligence. Why can't you turn on your brain?

Don't get excited, the S-8KOM also leaves those same hundreds of craters.

[Surgeon_XXX]

Doesn't the fact that the comment says shell craters mean anything? Open your eyes and turn on your brain. One shell doesn't cost 50 rubles, so 10 Ukrainians harass with shelling. Plus the cost of delivery, storage and wages for all participants in these operations. For the sake of harassing fire, are you serious?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Doesn't the fact that the comment says shell craters mean anything? Open your eyes and turn on your brain. One shell doesn't cost 50 rubles to bother 10 Ukrainians with shelling. Plus the cost of delivery, storage and wages for all participants in these operations. Are you serious about harassing fire?

So NAR is also a projectile, didn’t you know?

[Surgeon_XXX]

Nurs and not nar, in any case, to fire at trenches so that the dispersion is several kilometers is a crime. The state rips off this money from the people, and this resource must be spent carefully.

[Serg koma]

Quote: malyvalv

Any manager has no choice if an increased defense order is handed down from above.

Quote: malyvalv

And a lot of everything was needed yesterday.

Read your comments and you begin to understand that the problem with domestic civil aviation only arose yesterday evening.

[malyvalv]

Not yesterday. But with the start of the Second World War, the problems with civil aviation have rather worsened due to sanctions and shortages of everything. Until the war gets better.

[Evgeny_4]

Well, at least at aircraft factories, state defense orders are now a priority.
And the hypothetical head of a mechanical workshop will now first include in the plan, first to make parts on a few machines for military orders, and only then for civilians.
And alas, it is so.
They beat you very hard for the state defense order now, sometimes you can even get a criminal sentence. But for the civil defense they will only scold you.

[common man]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

That's not the point. The point is that they promised to establish production. And they didn't do it.

Well, they didn't expect to run the SVO for so many years either. And they didn't plan on spending so much on it.

[Oldrover]

It's simple: if you promised, bend over backwards to do it. If you couldn't, return the money you received and face prosecution.

Should this only work for aircraft manufacturers or for any industry including the military and the president?

[Dilettante grandfather]

This should work for all honest people. If you don't know...

[Oldrover]

But it doesn’t work, how much the president promised and didn’t fulfill, and where are the courts or at least a resignation, well, and since it doesn’t work at the very top, then there’s no reason to expect it from below either.

[Dilettante grandfather]

But it doesn’t work, the president promised so much and didn’t fulfill it.

How much? When, what? Specifics where?
The only thing I know is that he once promised not to raise the retirement age. They raised it. Okay. The rest of the unfulfilled promises, please.

[Oldrover]

For example

9:08 pm
Putin, March 8, 2022: "I understand how worried you are about your loved ones. Let me emphasize: there will be no additional call-up of reservists from the reserve. Only professional military personnel will accomplish the tasks set."

Has anyone from the troika of the president, the minister of defense, and the chief of the General Staff been punished for poor planning of the SVO?

[Dilettante grandfather]

Has anyone from the troika of the president, the minister of defense, and the chief of the General Staff been punished for poor planning of the SVO?

Well, firstly, the minister is different. Secondly, why did you assume that the planning was bad? Are there documents from the Ministry of Defense or the General Staff?
We do NOT know what was planned, we do NOT know what is planned now. We only see what is shown to us. Therefore, it is not for us to decide whether the SVO is planned poorly or well.

[Oldrover]

Well, if the president said that they don’t plan to even involve reservists, and then they announce mobilization, then something else was clearly planned.

Therefore, it is not for us to decide whether the SVO is planned poorly or well.

Why then do you think differently about aviation?

[Dilettante grandfather]

Why then do you think differently about aviation?

Because these are different things. Did someone promise to finish the SVO within a specific time frame? No. And here - promises to produce so many machines. The time frame is specified. If the time frame is specified - what shifts can there be? If you promised - do it.

[Oldrover]

Because these are different things. Did someone promise to finish the SVO within a specific time frame? No. And here - promises to produce so many machines. The time frame is specified. If the time frame is specified - what shifts can there be? If you promised - do it.

And what does the deadline have to do with it? It was promised not to involve reservists, it was said that the tasks set are solved by professional military personnel, this is the problem of society, either hold everyone accountable for their mistakes, or it will turn out like now.

And here are promises to produce so many cars

Everything is the same as with the reservists, they planned poorly and had to make adjustments, in one case you are ready to judge, and in the other you say that it is none of our business, why is this so unclear.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Once again. Do you have documents confirming that the mobilization was not planned from the beginning? If so, then present them. If not, then there is nothing to talk about. No one is disclosing plans regarding military operations. No one is voicing the time frame in which the war will be over. Except for idiots, of course.

[Oldrover]

Once again, do you have documents confirming that the mobilization was not planned initially?

Putin publicly stated on March 8, 22 that all tasks would be carried out by professional military personnel and that there would be no additional call-up of reservists.

Do you have documents confirming that the mobilization was not planned initially?

You are driving yourself into an even deeper hole; if you planned the mobilization right away, then it should have been done in the spring of 22, then there wouldn’t have been many regroupings and the line of combat operations would have passed along a completely different border.

[Dilettante grandfather]

The documents, as I understand it, are missing. And until they are, as I already said, there will be no conversation.

[Andrey A]

Su-57 production has finally been established, although many did not believe in it. By the end of last year, 22 aircraft had already been produced. Mass production of civilian airliners will also begin. Some delays from the schedule are not critical.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Some delays from the schedule are not critical.

I'm talking about something a little different. If you promised, you have to fulfill it. If you weren't sure, there was nothing to promise. And being behind schedule is quite critical: imported airliners are gradually being scrapped. There are no replacements. The smaller the fleet of planes, the higher the prices for flights will be. With all the consequences.

[Andrey A]

Our five-year plans, in the USSR era, were not always fulfilled. But industrial production by 1980 had grown 150 times. This is not so bad at all, and the fact that certain plans were not fulfilled is not critical. And we are somewhat behind in aircraft manufacturing. Something similar happened with the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome (two stages of which were built), with the creation of the Su-57 (few believed in the success of the project, including here), in the construction of nuclear units, of which about 10 have been built recently, in the construction of the railway to Yakutsk across permafrost. Just recently, the West laughed heartily at our "Daggers", "Iskanders", "Avangards", "Sarmats", calling materials about them "cartoons". But it turned out that these are not "cartoons", but harsh reality. So not everything is so bad. And the production of MS-21 will begin next year, which is less than a month away. You just have to wait. We'll find out soon, we'll see soon.

[Dilettante grandfather]

That's not the point. The point is that they make promises that they don't keep. There's no time to wait, if anything happens. The civil aviation fleet is aging. There are no replacements. They promised a replacement, but didn't deliver. And the longer there is no replacement, the higher the cost of flights. The higher the cost, the less demand. Less demand, the fewer opportunities for companies to update their fleets... And so on.

[kit88]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

It's simple: if you make a promise, bend over backwards to do it.

It's as if you arrived from the Soviet Union just yesterday.
Nobody works like that anymore.
Now the manager’s task is to create a project, a presentation, to break his back, but to get funding.
And this is where the work ends, the money is spent, a new project is prepared, and the old one is sent back for revision with the aim of increasing funding and shifting the deadlines to the point of economic inexpediency.
Work is in full swing. Processors are heating up. Bonuses are stacked. Management is in charge!
And no one planned to do anything in hardware. And no one was going to ask for it, because there is the same manager sitting at the top.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Nobody works like that anymore.

What does it have to do with how and who works? I'm talking about honest people. You won't believe it, but there are plenty of them even now. If you promise, you have to fulfill it. If you can't, don't promise. It doesn't depend on the century, the era, or even the country. Only on each person.

[Andrey A]

Well, the money allocated earlier went to expand, first of all, military production. In any case, the money is being allocated, which means that the production of civilian aircraft will begin to recover. The problem is, among other things, that the initial estimates of the start date for mass production of engines and other systems were too optimistic. In the meantime, the capacities have been reoriented to military production, which is now much more important. But the capacities of aircraft factories continue to expand, which means they will be enough for both military and civilian production. And so. the Vostochny Cosmodrome was not built easily, there was also a significant delay compared to the schedule. But, after all, the first and second stages have already been built. Not everything is so bad.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: malyvalv

Putin just said recently that we make more missiles than the rest of the world. That's encouraging.
It is naive to think that all this will not affect the civilian automobile and aviation industries.

And "Aurus" is only assembled in Russia... A very necessary thing...

[malyvalv]

Aurus is a representative thing. It is also necessary, like the luxurious renovations of the Kremlin, the costs of diplomatic missions and many other things. Marketing of the state, if you like.
As they say, "they see you off according to your mind," but initially they "meet you according to your clothes."

[parma]

Who needs it? SVO - that's our "clothes"... the world is divided into 2 camps - either "the country of a crazy dictator, we will not interact with them" or "fools clashed in an initially losing fight, but you can get your own benefit from them"... that those who are not interested in "Auruses" and other representative things, rather the opposite, exclusively collected almost in one copy things confirm part of the words of the 1st camp... it's like with Gaddafi and his tents in his time...

[malyvalv]

Business is no longer needed? Neither import nor export?
Business couldn't care less about either the first or the second camp. If there is no political ban on trade, then they will trade. But they will also look at how serious a sucker you are.

[parma]

Business does care, because representatives of the 1st camp can easily close access to their markets, and this is very critical for business. Representatives of the 2nd camp will do business, exactly until the moment when the "fighters against dictatorship" punish the businessman with sanctions lists... India as an example - they will buy oil, then the money can only be spent in India and only on opening a business there...
Well, yes, how many people drive Aurus? About none, and you could say there are no businessmen among them... Aurus is really like Gaddafi's tent - no one needs it except the owner, and the owner needs it to show "I'm not like everyone else, I have this"...

[malyvalv]

It has become a tradition for people to show what they are like before they open their mouths at important meetings. There is even a set expression: "go see people, show yourself." Some show that they are rich, others, on the contrary, pretend to be poor. Some want to show off their sense of style.
Gaddafi did not live in a tent in Tripoli. But when he traveled abroad, he showed everyone that he was not a European, not an American, and not even a Chinese. He was a Libyan and represented Libya, an independent, distinctive country with its own culture.
And what can a Russian leader who arrives at a meeting in a Mercedes represent? Accordingly, the partners form a corresponding opinion about him and the country. Try to convince them otherwise with words later.
This is what Aurus is for. If you want to be respected, present yourself and the country in a status that matches yours and the country's.

[P]

maybe then the beneficiaries of the events west of Rostov will share the profits, because for some reason civilians don't fly to their families or on vacation in military equipment, they don't plow in tanks, and cartridges are absolutely not edible

[Andy_nsk]

We need SU-34, SU-35 first and foremost, not Superjets and MS-21. After all, these are made in the same factories.

Not at all!
The Su-34 is made in Novosibirsk. NAPO does not produce civilian aircraft.

[malyvalv]

Well, in Irkutsk, where the MS 21 is made, the Su-30SM2 and Yak 130 plant is busy. These are also top-priority products.

[Lech from Android.]

Tu-134? Yak-42? Are there any complaints about their reliability???

As with any other aircraft... but decommissioning them without preparing a quality replacement and maintenance is still short-sighted.

[Feodor13]

The Superjet has fulfilled its role by replacing these types.
Explain what quality means?

Especially in the context of the country that collapsed in the 90s, did anyone create a civilian product during that time?
Auto: Granta and Vesta are criticized, but they were much easier to create.
JD: Swallows are essentially Siemens, only now have they started changing them using reverse engineering.
Even the buses in our Far East are all Korean!

The people with the Superjet did a great job at the time, but there will always be asshole critics.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Feodor13

The people with the Superjet did a great job at the time, but there will always be asshole critics.

This is a characteristic feature of many Russian rulers - to create insurmountable difficulties and obstacles for themselves, and then stubbornly overcome them.

[malyvalv]

There is no point in arguing that the Superjet is an excellent aircraft. Before the MS21, it was the best thing we have created in civil aviation. But the latest accidents have highlighted the problem. The landing gear can puncture the fuel tank and cause a fire. This is serious.
I hope they will take this into account and modify the design of the tank so that it is not above the rack. They will separate it or do something else.

[Stas157]

Quote: malyvalv

There is no point in arguing that the Superjet is an excellent aircraft. Before the MS21, it was the best thing we have created in civil aviation.

I think so too.

Quote: malyvalv

The landing gear can puncture the tank and cause a fire. This is serious.

Well, a civil aircraft is not designed to catch a goat. There is clearly a pilot error in both cases. But I agree with you here too. The design of the tank for goats needs to be modified.

[Zoer]

Quote: Stas157

Well, a civil aircraft is not designed to catch a goat. It was clearly a pilot error in both cases.

It doesn't matter what the pilots did/didn't do. The struts should not puncture the TB under any circumstances. They should break themselves, but the tank should not be punctured. All over the world, airliners do this. And ours screwed up with this, and even made a poker face, already in the third episode.

[Zoer]

Quote: malyvalv

There is no point in arguing that the Superjet is an excellent aircraft.

Of course there are! There have already been THREE landings with punctured fuel tanks. One with dozens of dead. The last incident in Antalya miraculously did not cause any casualties. Personally, I will not board this plane.

[malyvalv]

Is it okay that all 3 cases fall under the category of "pilot error"?
A Boeing that likes to dive into the ground itself is of course better.
So fly Boeings and good luck to you.

[Zoer]

Quote: malyvalv

Is it okay that all 3 cases fall under the category of "pilot error"?

Such piloting errors should not lead to such consequences. This is worked out all over the world by the design of landing gear and fuel tanks, but not in our country. Moreover, the first case of tank puncture was due to rolling off the runway, due to the failure of the engine reverser. What do the pilots have to do with it? The last case - due to weather conditions. Again, what do the pilots have to do with it? Well, and the most tragic case, due to a lightning strike, and the failure of many systems, which turned the plane practically into a brick. And as it turned out, pilots were not really taught to fly such bricks. And this is not a whim of the pilots, but the norm of the entire system. What do we have in the end? A crooked airframe design that allows for tank punctures, failures of the most important systems of the aircraft (I will say right away, airliners should withstand lightning strikes without consequences, and they do, but not only all of them), and pilots are poorly taught to fly these coffins.

Quote: malyvalv

A Boeing that likes to dive into the ground itself is of course better.
So fly Boeings and good luck to you.

Those Boeings, unlike the SSJ100, have not been flying for a long time. And that is right. Ours don't care about the citizens passengers.

[malyvalv]

Pilot errors are the actions of pilots that lead to an abnormal situation. For which the aircraft is not designed. All 3 cases are exactly like that.
Given the high frequency of such cases, it is certainly necessary to revise the instructions for pilots and modernize the airframe to eliminate such cases.

[Zoer]

Quote: malyvalv

Pilot errors are the actions of pilots that lead to an abnormal situation. For which the aircraft is not designed. All 3 cases are exactly like that.

Yes, yes, the engine failed, the plane crashed - pilot error. Do you even hear yourself?
https://vz.ru/news/2018/10/10/945530.html?ysclid=m49huyvnye88199014

The Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsia) stated that the SSJ100 aircraft, which skidded off the runway, was operating with a malfunction.

"The RRJ-95B RA-89011 aircraft was operated with a delayed malfunction - the thrust reverser of engine No. 2 was deactivated. According to the restrictions of the minimum equipment list, landing with deactivated engine thrust reversers is permitted with a friction coefficient of at least 0,4," the statement on the Rosaviatsia website says.

Yes, yes, we'll blame it all on the pilots!
Well, and once again, for those who are in a tank with an earflaps hat...
https://sudact.ru/law/aviatsionnye-pravila-chast-23-normy-letnoi-godnosti/aviatsionnye-pravila/razdel-d-proektirovanie-i/shassi/23.721/?ysclid=m49hxqypu5454432282

The following requirements are imposed on the landing gear of transitional category aircraft with a seating capacity, excluding pilot seats, of 10 or more:

(a) The main landing gear must be designed so that if they fail due to take-off and landing roll loads exceeding their design limits (assuming loads acting in an upward and aft direction), the failure mode will be such that no fuel will leak from any part of the fuel system in sufficient quantity to cause a fire hazard.

Apparently, the SSJ100 designers ignored this requirement.

[malyvalv]

Without a reverser, the plane was landing on a runway with a low friction coefficient. In violation of the instructions. Either they didn't know the coefficient or they just ignored it. They knew perfectly well that there was no reverser. Otherwise, the plane wouldn't have rolled out. And who's to blame? What claims are there against the plane regarding the rollout?
The designers screwed up with the tank design. The chassis shouldn't be able to penetrate it under any circumstances. When something new is created, some kind of glitch always comes up. It's enough to remember the stories with the Tu-104 and An-10. And these Tupolev and Antonov aircraft were, by the way, at the height of their creativity. And the Superjet is also a new project from scratch after the collapse of the entire aircraft design school. It's sad, but it happens.

[Zoer]

Quote: malyvalv

Without a reverser, the plane was landing on a runway with a low friction coefficient. In violation of the instructions. Either they didn't know the coefficient or they just ignored it.

The friction coefficient was transmitted to the crew by the airfield service incorrectly, being twice as high as the actual value.

Quote: malyvalv

What are the claims against the aircraft regarding rolling out?

Such that the reverse didn't work. With him, this coefficient doesn't matter.

Quote: malyvalv

The designers screwed up with the tank design. The chassis shouldn't be able to penetrate it under any circumstances.

Finally, you heard and acknowledged the obvious. Did you take off your ushanka?

Quote: malyvalv

Whenever something new is created, some kind of glitch always comes up.

When a flaw surfaces, it will be fixed, instead of putting on a poker face and continuing to ruin people. And there are also a lot of questions about the "disclosure" of this flaw. How were the tests conducted? Who signed the airworthiness certificate. Why are these coffins still flying without the necessary modifications?

Quote: malyvalv

It is enough to remember the stories with the Tu-104 and An-10.

It is enough to remember that in those incidents flights were stopped until the matter was clarified and changes were made.

Quote: malyvalv

It's sad but it happens.

What doesn't happen here? Only it never happens in the mind. But in fact, the plane is not beautiful at all, but deadly dangerous.
Personally, I will never sit in this piece of crap myself. And I don't advise you to either. Burning alive is not the best end to mortal existence.

[malyvalv]

Finally, you heard and acknowledged the obvious. Did you take off your ushanka?

You should read more carefully where and what I wrote. I never refused the obvious.
Now, given the circumstances, no one will remove the Superjets. They will rewrite the instructions and that's it. To fix such a jamb with the tank, you need to completely remove the wing and then put it back. Unrealistic.
But once again. Everyone has their faults. There is no need to slander the Superjet unnecessarily.

[Zoer]

Quote: malyvalv

They'll rewrite the instructions and that's it.

What will they write? Don't hit the strip hard?

Quote: malyvalv

To fix this problem with the tank, you have to completely remove the wing and then put it back. Unrealistic.

What are you saying!!! Boeing with its nose-dive also wanted to rewrite the RLE, but they got a slap on the wrist. It's a pity that ours has no one to do the same.

Quote: malyvalv

But once again. Everyone has their faults. There is no need to slander the Superjet unnecessarily.

This is not just a glitch. This is a CRITICAL glitch that directly affects flight safety and puts the lives of dozens of people in mortal danger.
Just for example... In the US there have been no aviation accidents with fatalities for 10 years. And planes fly there more and more often than our commuter trains. But here they crash and crash all the time. It is precisely because of such carelessness and judgments as yours.

[Stas157]

Quote: Feodor13

This is a trait of many "Russian" people - pouring out slop on the labor of their compatriots.

No need, Fedya. You're trying to pour slop now. And you're doing it awkwardly!
What kind of "labor" are you talking about? About the lack of airplanes? Well, it's not related to labor. It's related to its absence.

[Feodor13]

No need, Stasik.
Compatriots worked on the Superjet in the design bureau, in Rybinsk, and in Komsomolsk.
And at many enterprises in Russia.
These are your brothers and sisters. These are our people. At least here we should include respect for them to Roman Skomorokhov.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Feodor13

This is a trait of many "Russian" people - pouring slop on the work of their compatriots.

Russian people cannot have compatriots with dual citizenship, whose children live and study abroad, and those who preferred chatter about patriotism to military service.

[man]

The people with the Superjet did a great job at the time, but there will always be asshole critics.
They simply do not understand that it takes 20 years to train a competent engineer. They are used to thieves and speculators appearing instantly, and they think that it is the same with engineers...

[alexoff]

There are plenty of literate engineers sitting in retirement, if they wanted, they could all be offered 200-300 thousand a month, give them padawans so that they could learn their knowledge. And in 7-8 years everything will be fine. And 20 years is more like engineers need to be taught the history of philosophy and other crap, which is now taught in universities 90-95% of the time due to the complete separation of education from real needs.

[man]

Quote from alexoff

There are plenty of literate engineers sitting in retirement, if they wanted, they could all be offered 200-300 thousand a month, give them padawans so that they could learn their knowledge. And in 7-8 years everything will be fine. And 20 years is more like engineers need to be taught the history of philosophy and other crap, which is now taught in universities 90-95% of the time due to the complete separation of education from real needs.

So who's stopping you, suggest!!! The only thing I'll add depends on the industry. For example, electronics, systems engineering are developing too quickly, and with age it's hard to learn something new... I'm afraid we'll have a hard time after such a break... but in the USSR there were traditionally very strong mechanics, and mechanics is conservative, so they have the cards! For example, my classmate still does term papers and theses for modern students, and before the war, and for London
too!

[alexoff]

So whoever is stopping you, make suggestions!!!

No one will listen to me, it is not in the traditions of Russian bosses. Even in small teams, not to mention large ones. Here we have allocated hundreds of billions, there are no planes, because there are no specialists and it is difficult in general. The question is - who did the money go to if there is no one to work? If we open vacancies at the aforementioned aircraft factories, there is no need for a huge number of specialists, people have bad reviews, salaries are normal for such professions. I think we are waiting for Trump to come and restore order, allow buying Airbuses again, and traditionally steal money for import substitution. Like in the Soviet cartoon - we have never learned how to dig potatoes, but we can eat them.

For example, electronics and systems engineering develop too quickly, and with age it becomes difficult to learn new things.

There were no IT specialists in the USSR, but now they are paid a lot and a huge number of young people are ready to study all sorts of books, lectures in other languages, etc., they themselves pay money to online schools (often swindlers). If people believe that such skills will give a ticket to a bright future, children will run to learn to work. Everyone knows programmers who buy themselves big apartments and all that, and who rose from the bottom. There are many bloggers before our eyes, who were also nobody yesterday, and now they get millions. But what about engineers? Since birth, I have seen engineers who did not fit into the market, wild working conditions, delays in salaries for several months, all sorts of comedians joked about engineers and their poverty on the idiot box. Well, the success was with the directors of these engineers, who rented out everything in sight. Moreover, these directors were appointed by connections, and not because they were geniuses. Even before perestroika, the chief engineer at our city-forming plant hanged himself when he found out that the director and his deputy had defended their doctorates based on his inventions.

[man]

No one will listen to me, this is not in the traditions of Russian bosses. Even in small teams, not to mention large ones. Here we have - hundreds of billions have been allocated, there are no planes, because there are no specialists and in general it is difficult. The question is - who did the money go to, if there is no one to work? If you open vacancies at the aforementioned aircraft factories, there is no need for a huge number of specialists, people have bad reviews, salaries are normal for such professions.
I understand...it's just a cry from the heart for you... Our trouble is complete irresponsibility, which began with the arrival of the Yeltsinoids and continues today. Belousov's efforts are rather an exception to the rule, unfortunately. With such irresponsibility it is impossible to effectively govern the country.
I think we are waiting for Trump to come and restore order, allow us to buy Airbuses again, and as usual they will steal the money for import substitution.
I think it's obvious, despite the furious denials coming from TV. .
there were no IT specialists in the USSR
There were, they were simply called programmers or, in slang, programmers. It's just that computer technology was ridiculous by today's standards and system engineers often had to implement tasks in hardware.
They are paid a lot these days and a huge number of young people are ready to study all sorts of books, lectures in other languages ​​and so on, they themselves pay money to online schools (often scammers). If people believe that such skills will give a ticket to a bright future - children themselves will run to work. Everyone has programmer friends who buy themselves big apartments and all that, and who rose from the bottom.
On the one hand, this is great, but on the other, it has led to a wild overabundance of them. There are not enough for all the great tasks, and everyone wants a big salary, so they come up with all sorts of unnecessary crap that even complicates normal work for users, taking advantage of the illiteracy of their management. And so every year there is new crap! The tail steers the dog! The most striking example is the "IT people" in banks, who, albeit briefly, paralyze their work several times a year!
Our "elite" is mostly unprofessional, so they especially strive to put their citizens under complete control and "IT specialists" to help them. Since the work is boring for talented IT specialists, it is done by complete crap, the most stupid. Can you imagine what kind of execution?
But what about engineers? Since birth, I have seen engineers who did not fit into the market, wild working conditions, salary delays of several months, and all sorts of comedians on the idiot box joked about engineers and their poverty.
Yeah, I've seen enough of that too. , I myself am one of these engineers, I just got lucky later... But I will remember this despair for the rest of my life...
Well, the success was with the directors of these engineers, who rented out everything in sight. Moreover, these directors were appointed by connections, and not because they were geniuses.
In Soviet times, plant management was not appointed by connections, at least in the 60s and 70s, because it was extremely hard work, there was pressure from above: Give us a plan!, but there weren’t enough people and in general a lot of things... and what kind of rent was there in Soviet times???
Even before perestroika, the chief engineer at our city-forming plant hanged himself when he found out that the director and his deputy had defended their doctorates based on his inventions.
This is some kind of unique case, what dissertations, where do plant managements get time for dissertations, they were lost at work, especially when the plan was burning??? I have never heard of a plant director, even a candidate... maybe already in the 80s?

[alexoff]

In Soviet times, factory management was not appointed through connections, at least in the 60s and 70s, because it was extremely hard work.

Well, since the second half of Brezhnev's rule, it was already appointed, especially the closer to Moscow. At the aforementioned plant in the seventies they came up with a clever thing - lunch is not one o'clock, but one o'clock ten. But for this, every second or third Saturday - workers. But it is not for the director to work at the machine or in the galvanic shop.

what was the rent like in soviet times???

Well, not in Soviet times. The director and his henchmen entered the market by leasing half of the plant. But the rest didn't.

This is some kind of unique case, what dissertations, where do plant managements get time for dissertations, they were lost at work, especially when the plan was burning??? I have never heard of a plant director, even a candidate... maybe already in the 80s?

Yes, it was in the early 80s. The decay was already in full swing then, the nineties, so to speak, were clearly visible ahead.

[man]

Yes, it was in the early 80s. The decomposition was already in full swing then.
And still, the decay of that time is child's play compared to today's...

[alexoff]

Well, the bosses of that time have now fallen into complete insanity and impotence, once they were still militant in terms of defending the interests of their own bandit groups. But for some reason, having established themselves on the throne, they went to bow to the ground to their foreign grandfathers, who somehow did not go anywhere. The change of our leaders is at most capable of undergoing a course of treatment in a drug dispensary, among the many thousands of offspring of the nouveau riche, there was not a single Elon Musk, it is not even clear how they will hold on to the inheritance in the form of factories and steamships, top managers have gone through a competitive struggle and have teeth.

[man]

Quote from alexoff

Well, the bosses of that time have now fallen into complete insanity and impotence, once they were still militant in terms of defending the interests of their own bandit groups. But for some reason, having established themselves on the throne, they went to bow to the ground to their foreign grandfathers, who somehow did not go anywhere. The change of our leaders is at most capable of undergoing a course of treatment in a drug dispensary, among the many thousands of offspring of the nouveau riche, there was not a single Elon Musk, it is not even clear how they will hold on to the inheritance in the form of factories and steamships, top managers have gone through a competitive struggle and have teeth.

They don't care about our problems, why should we care about theirs?

[alexoff]

I have considerable experience working for the appointed boss of the son of a Soviet deputy minister. Very often his inadequacy became our problem. Fortunately, he was thrown out with a dirty broom when his two defenders left for the apostle Peter. But there were few of us, we could have dumped him. But when such a person inherits a plant, problems can arise for the whole city

[man]

Quote from alexoff

I have considerable experience working for the appointed boss of the son of a Soviet deputy minister. Very often his inadequacy became our problem. Fortunately, he was thrown out with a dirty broom when his two defenders left for the apostle Peter. But there were few of us, we could have dumped him. But when such a person inherits a plant, problems can arise for the whole city

Are you satisfied with the current owners of the plant?

[alexoff]

Of course not, I am a researcher, and Russian science is paranormal. After all, there are only a couple of normal people in it, whom I don’t even know personally

[man]

Quote from alexoff

Of course not, I am a researcher, and Russian science is paranormal. After all, there are only a couple of normal people in it, whom I don’t even know personally

Ah, colleague... to my deep regret, former...

[Zoer]

Quote: mann

but in the USSR there were traditionally very strong mechanics, and mechanics are conservative, so the cards are in their hands!

There are no more offices with designers at their drawing boards. Everything is done in digital format. Even the archives are electronic. HOW will those Soviet engineers master CAD?

[man]

Quote: Zoer

Quote: mann

but in the USSR there were traditionally very strong mechanics, and mechanics are conservative, so the cards are in their hands!

There are no more offices with designers at their drawing boards. Everything is done in digital format. Even the archives are electronic. HOW will those Soviet engineers master CAD?

So they want to invite them to teach, not work

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Lech from Android.

but taking them out of service without preparing a high-quality replacement and maintenance is still short-sighted.

Deliberate sabotage!!! As is the production of domestic aircraft from foreign components...
* * *
Only today, apparently, it has dawned on us that import substitution is simply turning a once industrially developed country into a gathering place of thieves and speculators...
It's good that people in China love Russian ice cream...

[man]

import substitution just like that turns a once industrially developed country into a gathering place of thieves and speculators...
Import substitution is indeed necessary, there is no other way out!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: mann

Import substitution is indeed necessary, there is no other way out!

Gaidar is risen!
Chubais is back!

[man]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: mann

Import substitution is indeed necessary, there is no other way out!

Gaidar is risen!
Chubais is back!

I read your other comments. Something is wrong here... You don't look like a liberal... or an idiot either... It seems we have different ideas about import substitution. What do you think import substitution is?

[man]

It was only today, apparently, that it dawned on me import substitution just like that turns a once industrially developed country into a gathering place of thieves and speculators...
What nonsense you have to write!!!

[Dilettante grandfather]

Please provide examples of Boeing and Airbus failures in the Russian Federation!

Tu-134? Yak-42? Are there any complaints about their reliability???

Perhaps you can give examples of incidents involving these machines?

[Feodor13]

CCCP-42529, and crashed into a mountain three more times in difficult weather conditions.
Ask yourself how many mountains like this would there be if they continued to use the old Yak-42 aircraft?
The death of the Yak-42 in Yaroslavl is not only the crew, but also the imperfection of the machine.
And this is only the Yak-42.
I won't even look for the Tu-134, the fact is that its landing speed was almost twice as high as modern ones! The risk factor is off the charts.

[Dilettante grandfather]

CCCP-42529, and crashed into a mountain three more times in difficult weather conditions.
Ask yourself how many mountains like this would there be if they continued to use the old Yak-42 aircraft?
The death of the Yak-42 in Yaroslavl is not only the crew, but also the imperfection of the machine.
And this is only the Yak-42.
I won't even look for the Tu-134, the fact is that its landing speed was almost twice as high as modern ones! The risk factor is off the charts.

When, where. You can write anything you want off the cuff. The facts of incidents with Superjets are right before your eyes. If Superjets are so new and reliable, and Yaks and Tupolevs are so outdated, then why do these "new and reliable" ones fail? And also, compare the number of incidents and service life. How many times did Yaks and Tupolevs, including the 154th, get into such situations, and how many times did SJs get into such situations? And derive the arithmetic mean. Everything will be clear right away.
I am not against new planes. But they must be of high quality. And, I will note, produced on time.

[Feodor13]

The facts of the incidents with Superjets are before your eyes - only because you live in the 21st century. The facts of the incidents with Tu-134 and Yak-42, no one in the Soviet newspapers reported to the people. Okay, you think I'm a fool, but why are you deceiving yourself?
In 1993, our Tu-134 made 3 circles over Kaliningrad, and then the crew began to hug us right at the plane’s steps, without even letting us passengers out, while the captain showed the ailerons!

Must be of high quality ...
Mother Nature even gives birth to people who are not of good quality (with deviations),
and you are talking about a product created by people in difficult times...

[avia12005]

Are you a pilot if you know about landing speed?

[man]

If the Superjet had not been reliable, it would not have carried millions of Russians in 14 years.
Failures also include maintenance and preparation of aircraft, which partly depends on ground personnel.
The author also shamelessly bypasses the issue of pilot training.
I remember the storm of criticism that arose when the Superjet appeared, and how it quickly turned into an unfair denigration of all domestic aviation. Even Kobzon joined in. It was after this that Aeroflot began to give preference to imported aircraft It was a strong blow to our aircraft...

[Magic archer]

Because in our country if you steal sausage from a store, you'll go to jail, and if you steal a billion, you'll be in the Duma. As long as corruption rules, we'll keep doing it: VAZ-TAZ instead of normal cars, and Superjets instead of airplanes! People who should be held responsible ARE NOT AFRAID OF ANYTHING! Has Rogozin been punished in any way for the complete chaos in Roscosmos!? Or the people responsible in the aviation industry!? Or those who ruled and stole in the defense industry!? Shame... The entire top brass needs to be cleaned out. But. For obvious reasons, this is impossible.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Magic Archer

Has Rogozin been punished in any way for the complete chaos in Roscosmos!?

And how...they gave a life sentence in the Federation Council...along with Matviyenko...the second heroine after Tereshkova...

[hhurik]

Not true. To go to jail, you have to steal sausage twice, and the first time you have to get caught and get an administrative fine for petty theft.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Unfortunately, we can state that the aviation industry and Roscosmos have turned into MMM. All they can do is promise what to produce in 100 years. In 2024, Elon Musk carried out 123 rocket launches, Roscosmos needed 11 years to do this.

[Alex Starley]

Oh, the holy sect of Elon Musk has caught up. Many launches are good, but they were paid for in advance. If they had paid for them, we would have also made 123 launches in one year. And yes, do not read the comments from the old farts above, who have been retired for 20-30 years, the planes were not made only because the airlines did not pay for them, neither Aeroflot, nor S7, nor others. The same Airbus was paid in advance for 10 years. But in essence, the puzzle did not come together, we cannot cope without China, and they screwed us with the MS-21. I never expected that Boeing and Airbus would pay off the Chinese leadership so that they would curtail the civil aviation program.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: Alex Starley

Oh, the holy sect of Elon Musk has caught up. Many launches are good, but they were paid for in advance. If they had paid for them, we would have also made 123 launches in one year.

The Americans, Elon Musk, and other customers after them refused the services of Roscosmos for good reasons, and not because of a whim. Delays in launch dates, lack of progress in developing new solutions, insufficient payload capacity and, as a result, high cost. Empty promises scare off customers. Who will give a loan if it is not repaid and the deadlines are missed? Elon Musk, whether he is good or not, services credit lines and fulfills customer conditions, so there is a queue for him, and not because of sanctions. You need to work, and not talk about your greatness.

[turembo]

What are you saying, what executions, Vladimir Vladimirovich still explained on the direct line in relation to top managers. You yourself remember that if we do not pay them millions, we will lose rare specialists, they will flee to Europe to competitors.

[Stas157]

Quote from turembo

if we don't pay them millions, we will lose rare specialists, will flee to Europe to competitors.

It would be better if they ran away! Only in Europe these "poor specialists" would at best be placed at a car wash. To wash cars, not to command factories.

[bear cub]

Air transport is not very interesting? I will simply write that the railway industry is even worse. Russian Railways is short of at least 2500 drivers. Container warehouses abandoned in the wilderness have been waiting for unloading for two to three months. Railway terminals have stopped accepting cargo because there is no room for it. Freight traffic has been cut in half. Fortunately, tank production (or, in fact, the restoration of old scrap metal) is going according to plan. Instead of trains, we will travel in tanks.

[P]

Who said the transport collapse of 1917? No one said the transport collapse of 1917)

[Surgeon_XXX]

You're scrap metal yourself. Our tanks, even those from the 80s, are quite modern. So don't get carried away. We won't be driving tanks around, the cost is off the charts. Maybe just in Berlin and Paris.

[Ermak_415]

You're scrap metal yourself. Our tanks, even those from the 80s, are quite modern.

For some reason, enemy tanks from the same period are called junk.

And besides, the T 62 is not from the 80s at all, I’ll probably keep quiet about the T 55 and T 54

[Surgeon_XXX]

Abrams, where did they call Leopard 2 old?

[hhurik]

Why do we have to use tanks? It's not environmentally friendly and it's harmful to transport routes and directions. You can just cut through the vast expanses using captured devices.

[AdAstra]

You wrote everything to the point and it is unclear why you are being downvoted, as soon as the Ministry of Railways left and JSC Russian Railways became worse and worse every year.

[Ross xnumx]

And what are you surprised about, Roman Skomorokhov?
We are cultivating speculative-market relations according to the precepts of Gaidar and Chubais...
The other day, the company "Aeroflot" was in the USSR... It provided 290 million citizens with...
But the yellow liquid that hit the head at the behest of the EBN group allowed us to assume that by dividing the all-powerful Aeroflot into micro-companies, each with several planes and a dozen staff, we could live forever on dividends...
Fuck you, you bad gentlemen!
To get something, you need to earn it... And not with a long tongue and a grin of even (and not so even) rows of teeth, but with your hands, sweat and bloody calluses...
They put a "tax collector" at the head of the government and decided that he would be the one to solve all the problems?

Do you know if something (God forbid) happens to the first person in Russia, who will become the Supreme Commander?
Ah, yes-yes-yes...It was him:

In 1989, he completed his studies at Stankin in the specialty of computer-aided design systems (CAD), receiving the qualification of systems engineer. He did not serve in the army

[gsev]

Quote: ROSS 42

In 1989, he completed his studies at Stankin in the specialty of "computer-aided design systems" (CAD), receiving the qualification of systems engineer. He did not serve in the army

If you are talking about M. Mishustin, after finishing his first year at Stankin, he actually informally headed the newly created Mosstankin computing center. The fact that Mosstankin is now considered one of the best institutes that trained programmers is largely due to M. Mishustin. But when the Stankin computing center was being built, programming in the USSR was at an embryonic level. In the course of descriptive geometry, we were taught CAD in the form of recording algorithms in an artificial language for which the institute did not have a printer, plotter, or computer (computer time), and apparently an editor and translator for this language had not yet been developed. Everything was approximately at the level of the Quantum magazine, when I was going to enter the university. Excellent articles about algorithms and programs, but you cannot master programming without a computer. In Stankin, in the year that Mishustin came to study, a high-power computer was brought in and it worked effectively largely thanks to the student Mishustin.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: gsev

The fact that Mosstankin is now considered one of the best institutes for training programmers is largely due to M. Mishustin.

And it was he who came up with the idea of ​​taxing citizens' deposits - funds from which taxes had ALREADY been collected...
* * *
I have already read the praises of Kiriyenko, who, having come to Rosatom, raised its prestige to stratospheric heights. Today we are building nuclear power plants abroad and stamping out combat icebreakers for the development of the Northern Sea Route. What if the capital were moved to Arkhangelsk - beyond the Arctic Circle, life would be brighter and more fun.

Quote: gsev

In Stankin, in the year when Mishustin came to study, a high-power (productivity?) computer was brought in and it worked effectively, largely thanks to the student Mishustin.

How can one not remember the lieutenant colonel who, pistol in hand, saved secret documents somewhere in Germany... Or the former first secretary of the CPSU, who publicly threw away his party card, let enemies into the country to steal the people's property, betrayed the people and reported to Washington about the operation to destroy the USSR... Or the teacher of Roman law who gave the enemies 175 km² of sea area...
And how many of them were there, appearing out of nowhere, with whose appearance the wheel of history began to spin and turn... true, in the opposite direction...
* * *
So, my dear sir, tell me, can a person with the qualities you described, a genius brain and business acumen drive the aircraft industry into a deep cesspool?
I'll repeat it for the especially gifted:

Quote: ROSS 42

Do you know if something (God forbid) happens to the first person in Russia, who will become the Supreme Commander?
Ah, yes-yes-yes...It was him:

In 1989, he completed his studies at Stankin in the specialty of computer-aided design systems (CAD), receiving the qualification of systems engineer. He did not serve in the army

[gsev]

Quote: ROSS 42

And it was he who came up with the idea of ​​taxing citizens' deposits - funds from which taxes had ALREADY been collected...

I am a supporter of the communist idea at heart. In Czechoslovakia, after the communists came to power, a tax was introduced on deposits over a certain amount. In principle, it is high time to tax transfers to offshore countries, transfers to unemployed mistresses and mistresses. So you told me another fact that Mishustin is a reasonable leader. To my displeasure, Mishustin taxed not deposits but profits from deposits, and their rate is lower than income tax and tax on self-employed workers using non-cash payments. That is, in the non-production sector, taxation is the lowest.

Quote: ROSS 42

Can a person with the qualities you described, a genius brain and business acumen drive the aircraft industry into a deep cesspool?

I have friends in the aviation industry. According to them, there have been some positive personnel appointments over the past year. The Yeltsin-Gorbachev Augean stables are very difficult to clean out.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: gsev

The Yeltsin-Gorbachev Augean stables are very difficult to clean out.

While the EBN Center is blackening the sky, while EBN's widow has a staff of servants and a pension at the level of Gorbachev's, while the country's leaders are laying wreaths on EBN's grave, while Yeltsin's protégés are polluting the air in the corridors of power and wasting money aimlessly, all talk about a general cleaning of the Augean stables is just hot air...
Matvienko, Kirienko, Zolotov and others like them won't let you lie...

[gsev]

Quote: ROSS 42

Matvienko, Kirienko, Zolotov and others like them won't let you lie...

Zyuganov did not even dare to promise that Chubais would be expelled from all posts. But Putin managed things so that Chubais first fled to Turkey and now wanders restlessly between Israel and Great Britain. The all-powerful Berezovsky ended his Russophobia in a noose.

Quote: ROSS 42

Matvienko, Kirienko, Zolotov and others like them won't let you lie...

By the way, Matviyenko is, in my opinion, a pretty reasonable politician. Rosatom under Kiriyenko's leadership does not have the kind of failures that Rogozin allowed. Zolotov... For better or worse, his leadership of the Russian National Guard came at a time when the all-powerful nationalist gangs from skinheads and RNE to antifa became marginal losers.

[Ross xnumx]

The satisfaction of these people with Putin's work gives ONLY a subjective assessment of loyalty (or helpfulness)... I won't even talk about Matvienko, who is more concerned about her well-being and is raising a millionaire son - the second woman hero in the country...
From the same opera, Kiriyenko is a secret hero of Russia.
Zolotov - EBN's security, dubious acquaintances (joint photos), grandchildren abroad, theft in the department (almost Shoigin's version - an honest boss and thieving deputies)...
I also believe that Navalny was more dangerous for Russia than Chubais... Just like Nemtsov...

[gsev]

Quote: ROSS 42

.About Matvienko, who is more concerned about her well-being and is raising a millionaire son

Any woman takes care of her children. I heard about Matvienko after Primakov took up the post of Prime Minister. Then Primakov and Maslyukov in six months brought Russia out of the complete a... into which Yeltsin, Yavlinsky, Chubais, Chernomyrdin and Gaidar had driven it.

Quote: ROSS 42

Navalny was more dangerous for Russia than Chubais

It seems that Navalny collaborated with Western intelligence services. Nothing good comes from such collaboration. The authorities should not allow Western agents to survive in Russia.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: gsev

Mosstankin computing center. The fact that Mosstankin is now considered one of the best institutes that trained programmers is largely due to M. Mishustin.

Let me clarify - why such conclusions, if he simply managed a computer club in one of the institute's premises (and was not a professor at all), which was essentially an elective for students? Also, Mishustin was invited to the International Computer Club (ICC) by a graduate of the Moscow State University Economics Department and classmate of Yegor Gaidar, Levon Amdilyan. That is, in essence, it was a business supplying computers to government agencies. The ICC was only the "above-water part" of Amdilyan and Mishustin's business: "There were a bunch of different businesses around this - integration, computer supplies." The forums were at best unprofitable, Amdilyan claims: "Call this a serious business? God forbid!" According to him, the commercial potential was elsewhere: "People contacted us, asked for advice about suppliers of computers and other equipment." TRADE, not IT, was the main business of this office. And as for "raising an entire institute," that's just too much...

[gsev]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Let me clarify - why such conclusions, if he simply managed a computer club in one of the institute's premises (and was not a professor at all)

In Russia, there is always a formal leader and a person who actually leads the project. The Chinese told us that when they bought the design of the tank sight, the equipment did not work during their exercises. Their delegation came to NIIStal. The boys from the Chinese delegation went to sign a protocol of intent, and the head of the delegation went to look for company among the adjusters of NIIStal for drinking alcoholic beverages from the PRC. During the tasting, he complained about the tragedy that befell the Chinese tank industry and the fact that Chinese scientists and engineers have been trying to solve the problem for six months and do not know where to start approaching it. It took either one or two bottles to find out that the problem was in the sight lubricant and that the Chinese did not bother to understand that the lubricant should not allow moisture to pass through to the optical system even at subzero temperatures, which was during the exercises in Inner Mongolia. The head of the delegation was not an effective manager and immediately understood that Chinese science would be able to select such a lubricant in an acceptable time frame and cooperation with NIIStal was no longer necessary. After this, the PRC absolutely did not need an agreement with the official management of NIIStal. Approximately the same thing happened during the work on the creation of the Computing Center in Stankin. Some occupied high positions, others created this center and Mishustin in my eyes stood out from the general background of creators, being a first-year student, I think, still in the evening department.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

"People contacted us, asked for advice about suppliers of computers and other equipment." TRADE, not IT, was the main business of this company

This was probably 10 years later. In general, a lot depends on the correct choice of equipment. In TsNITI (defense industry) there were many departments that created control systems for robots, machine tools, CNC, drives. By 1998, only the position sensor sector was fluttering. There were smart people there and before they started designing, they studied all possible materials and came to the conclusion that the promising direction was development not on CMOS but on TTL circuits. Now the Chinese have entered Russia with offers of modern productive printers, scanners and plotters for design bureaus at almost Chinese prices. The state can equip all military design bureaus with equipment at the highest level at prices 3-5 times lower than European ones. But it seems to me that effective managers of the military-industrial complex will ignore their chance to overcome Western sanctions with ease.

[gsev]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

why such conclusions if he simply ran a computer club in one of the institute's premises

The computer club is 1992 and later. The time when I briefly saw Mishustin in the Stankin Computing Center under construction was probably 1984.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: gsev

The computer club is 1992 and later. The time when I briefly saw Mishustin in the Stankin Computing Center under construction was probably 1984.

1984, is that when he was a first-year student in the evening department? I don't believe it... no... maybe they saw it, but they couldn't know for sure, unless you are his teacher or class monitor... And also on Stankin's website - they write that http://itvs-stankin.ru/itvshistory/ " In 1989 In 2008, in connection with new urgent tasks, the department received a new name - "Computer-aided design" (CAD). The development of the department continues. After reconstruction, the building at 58 Novoslobodskaya Street housed a computing center", how is that, did you see him there in 1984? And in 1989 he had already graduated from the university..

[gsev]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

was this when he was a first year student in the evening department?

I had a similar acquaintance in Sterlitamak. There, an operator with an education after the 8th grade and a 2-month operator course (this is not even a vocational school) understood the CNC system AC2621 (from TsNITI) better than the designers and programmers of this CNC. Moreover, he understood all the Soviet-made CNCs installed at this plant in exactly the same way. Moreover, the timekeepers considered him their personal enemy and in my presence managed to write a report on him for not using the program. For setup, we came to the plant at 7:30 and left no earlier than 19:00. But on all days, including Saturday and Sunday and the first 3 days of this operator's vacation, he came to the plant before us and left after us.

[2 Level Advisor]

Excuse me, Vladimir, but I don't believe in a first-year evening student who is engaged in the construction of a university computing center. Maybe he was a great graduate student there, later - from 1 to 1989, but you shouldn't make a Great Scientist out of him. Then he went into buying and selling, and also, along with the end of Gaidar's career (a classmate of my partner), business began to stall... so it's stupid to argue that he is a smart person, but in the rest... everything is like in the 1992s and not only...

[gsev]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

but I don’t believe in a first-year evening student who is involved in the construction of a university computing center.

I was recently told about a self-taught Afghan IT specialist. In Moscow, he beat up a Syrian diplomat and his security. When the FSB tried to casually arrest him, within half an hour he hacked into the Internet system of surveillance cameras from Moscow to the Polish border and laid out a route so that neither Russian, nor Belarusian, nor Polish special services could detain him. Now in Germany, he sometimes earns several thousand dollars an hour as a programmer. An apartment in Berlin with several rooms and a practical opportunity to obtain citizenship. Steve Jobs is also self-taught. By the way, all the presidents of the former USSR use furniture designed and engineered by a Tajik who started out as a simple builder in Moscow.

[avionic]

Chinese brother and Korean brother will help

[P]

The documents about launching Boeings and Airbuses to the market have signatures, it won't take long to find out the names, the bloodletting of enterprises and their privatization was approved and carried out by very specific people, the go-ahead for all this parsley was also given by very specific people, whom we all know. Can we look at the sentences and the loose soil over the graves near the prison wall? No? Well, then there will be no changes

[Sergey T19]

I really want to believe that the MS-21 will appear next year. There are engines for it, and other systems should be imported. With other aircraft, things are much worse. The Superjet will not be ready next year. The engines for it are not ready. The TU-214 was a stillborn aircraft from the start. It will never exist in its current form, I am sure all the specialists understood this, but they still decided to cut up the money. It is morally obsolete, not only is it obsolete, but most likely there are no specialists left who can make it, nor Soviet components that are no longer produced. It needs to be seriously modernized, then it will turn into the same MS-21.

[Evgeny_4]

There are specialists specifically for the Tu 214

[Sergey T19]

Where from??? The aircraft has not been produced since 2010.

[Evgeny_4]

Since 2010, 16 Tu 214 aircraft have been assembled.
Plus, in Kazan, at KAZ, there are specialists who assemble the Tu 160.

[Mitrich73]

Skomorokhov certainly added... The problem with engines for the A320 neo is global, many companies have grounded their planes, and this is aggravated by sanctions. There is movement on our planes, although there are delays caused by the unpreparedness of domestic systems and, concerning the SJ-100, problems with the engine, as well as, for the TU-214, poor organization of production. But it is impossible to say that there is no movement. There are thematic channels on the Internet that cover in detail what is happening in aviation.

[man]

Quote: Mitrich73

There is movement on our planes., although from delays, which are caused by unpreparedness of domestic systems and, concerning SJ-100, problems with the engine, and also, TU-214, poor organization of production. But to say that there is no movement-it is impossible. There are thematic channels on the network that cover in detail what is happening in aviation.

God willing, with our vast expanses we can't do without aviation. Now the main question should be "How can we help?", and not "Who is to blame?"

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: mann

Now the main question should be "How can I help?", and not "who is to blame?"

Why do you always try to turn the problem upside down?
To correct errors, you need to periodically work on them and identify the causes of discord in work...
How can we help? Throw out from the government those who assume that we can always buy what we need abroad? But will they want to sell all this to us abroad?
Or should we rush to train teachers for vocational schools and technical universities?
Or should we go and explain to the youth that hanging out in pubs and clubs is worse than standing at a CNC machine?
* * *
Perhaps we should recommend returning to the Soviet constitution, according to which there was no place in the country for thieves, currency speculators, homosexuals, parasites, and those who disdained family ties were taxed “on eggs” and taxed for childlessness?

[man]

Throw out of the government those who assume that we can always buy what we need abroad?
They are either fools or traitors. Temporarily we need to use "parallel import" to buy time until we make our own. That's why we need "friendly" countries. By the way, in the future we can still copy some products or their parts. Even the USSR at the height of its power did not disdain this, and the West was engaged in industrial espionage no less than we were...

[Surgeon_XXX]

The problem is with one m being written.

[c1881188]

Don't worry too much. Everything will work out. Aviation is not a simple matter. Everything takes time. Russia has solved even worse problems in its centuries-long history.

[tatra]

Well, yes, 33 years were not enough for the enemies of the USSR to do anything useful for Russia and its people. And there is no need to unite them with the Soviet people, or with the people of the Russian Empire. They are an anomaly compared to those.

[man]

Aviation is not a simple matter.
Humanitarians... they think airplanes grow on trees

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: c1881188

Don't worry too much. Everything will work out. Aviation is not a simple matter. Everything takes time. Russia has solved even worse problems in its centuries-long history.

well yeah.. bright future is coming soon.. literally 20-30 years.. just wait

[tsvetahaki]

Why do you always remember negative things?
That's what the Olympics were like! How many fireworks! How many stadiums were built! Some of them haven't fallen apart yet, mind you!
65 billion dollars for a necessary cause, and not for all sorts of airplanes and electronics!
And what a wonderful World Cup!
Rather than flying on airplanes, our souls will be warmed by memories of him!

[man]

Rather than flying on airplanes, our souls will be warmed by memories of him!

Indeed, why do we need airplanes, we will be in the clouds

[Mazunga]

ehhh not everything is so bad billions are allocated? allocated to who needs it lavash dripping? dripping) and the fact that on a superjet you can fry or fall from the sky so people are not birds if you are scared ride rye you need to pray maybe and it will pass you by all from this science it is known that in the sky only Aladdin carpet plane and Iblis fly in every plane Iblis sits so in Sochi you need to drive a Priora for a high in the summer

[Stas157]

And this is what was promised, based on the decree of the Russian government (thanks again to the Rostec press service, which provided us with this wonderful document):

We don't need all this. That's what they said later. They said it was excessive! And then, when the planes are grounded, they'll tell us: We don't need planes at all!

[Cartographer]

"Where did the 214 get its imported components?"
Well, Roman, you do understand that Soviet avionics and electronics have not been produced for a long time? You are not going to put VAZ 2101 components in a modern Vesta, are you?

[Stepnyak]

put the filling from VAZ 2101 into the modern Vesta

I keep a carbureted four-cylinder in my garage and fight off "matchmakers" who want to take it away from the yard. I feel that soon all the super-duper computerized, ABS, and glamorized ones will stop, and then I will be the king of the highway among the flow of horse-drawn transport.

[Cartographer]

Quote: Stepnyak

put the filling from VAZ 2101 into the modern Vesta

I keep a carbureted four-cylinder in my garage and fight off "matchmakers" who want to take it away from the yard. I feel that soon all the super-duper computerized, ABS, and glamorized ones will stop, and then I will be the king of the highway among the flow of horse-drawn transport.

You can keep anything in your garage, even a Moskvich from the 60s, but putting electronics from the 80s on a modern plane is an anachronism.

[nerovnayadoroga]

I support you, I have a two-year-old standing and stamping its hoof at the moment, 1978 by the way, and it feels great, generally reliable...

[Stepnyak]

Keep your swallow. Even if everything ends not so badly - it will not lose its value.

[Stas157]

Quote: Shtat

I am from Tolyatti and the mention of "only Grant" was jarring.

So, is Granta a good car or what? Maybe it's not expensive?

Don't be offended, but I owned several AvtoVAZ models. The last one was a "ten" in the 2000s. I spent many hours lying under them. Drivers used to repair their cars themselves! But I don't intend to spend my money on buckets of bolts anymore.

[Severok]

Tolyatti creaks but moves, right??? But at the prices that are asked for Tolyatti cars, no one is in a hurry to buy anything. Something is not good here again, huh???

[Bolt cutter]

There are no fewer parts in a modern car than in an airplane.

I highly doubt it, and the requirements for build quality are a bit different.

[Vsevolod Sidorov]

Pratt and Whitney have already announced 1084 defective engines delivered to Airbus more than a year ago. They promise to repair them in 15 years...so we are not alone.
And yes, it is not always possible to buy less time with more money. If the first cars go not in 24, but in 28, and the series not in 30, but in 35 ... then that is normal.

[Yuri L]

Here it is, the bright future of Russian communication between cities and villages in a few years. We are getting ready little by little, getting used to the fresh air.

[Stepnyak]

Given the current course of events, we won't even have such luck. Demographics... Well, unless those in your picture come to live here permanently.

[vkfriendly]

This is Nabiullina's dream...

[Stas157]

I wonder where the imported components suddenly came from in a Soviet aircraft (and the Tu-214 is a completely Soviet Tu-204, even its original name was Tu-203-200, the differences are minimal)?

Import substitution! Only the other way around. Domestic components were replaced with Western ones.
And it happened so easily! Only now our capitalists can't make it domestic again. The Westerners have taken them in like the last suckers.

"Superjet New" - a better name for a Russian aircraft of completely domestic assembly could not be imagined

Checkmate is from the same opera. Very strong names!

[Stepnyak]

The Westerners took them for complete suckers.

It's a strange feeling... They were fooled, but for some reason I feel like a sucker...

[dementor873]

Even war cannot wake up our officials. Because war is their mother.