Su-57: No queue, but only for now

According to the South Korean publication Military Watch Magazine, which was not noted for any particular sympathy towards us for quite understandable political reasons, Russia made a very good marketing move at the exhibition in Zhuhan. The organized show with the demonstration (including access) of the Su-57 immediately moved the fighter from a distant subject of possible consideration to the category of potential purchases.

The queue, of course, did not form three bends, but nevertheless, the process, as they say, has begun. Speaking at the Airshow China in Zhuhai on November 13, Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheyev confirmed that the first contracts for the delivery of Su-57s have already been signed. Naturally, it was not disclosed with whom, which gave rise to a lot of speculation about who might become the first customer of the aircraft.

Thus, the Su-57's "streak of inattention" seems to be over, and exports of the aircraft may begin in the very near future. As one of three fighters of its generation currently in production worldwide (apparently, this means that the F-22 is no longer in production and has never been sold, and the Chinese J-35 is not yet in serial production - ed.), it can potentially offer customers a number of new air combat capabilities due to the lesser emphasis on stealth and greater emphasis on maneuverability and speed.

The fighter's appeal to foreign customers has been enhanced by combat testing it has undergone in Ukraine. Operations have included air defense suppression, dogfights, and operations in heavily defended enemy airspace, as well as a number of precision strikes using missiles both from internal bays and external mounts. This is especially important because it provides an understanding of the aircraft's stealth level and the possible choice between stealth or a large number of weapons on external mounts.

Representatives of some interested countries, such as India, have particularly emphasized the need to evaluate the aircraft's operational experience in the Russian Air Force before placing orders. And this only confirms what we have repeatedly said on our pages: an aircraft that is not in service with the exporting country's army is unlikely to interest buyers. The principle of "Give me back what you don't need" does not work today. Although there were precedents, such as the US pushing its F-104 mega-aircraft on Germany (but who said that Germany is an independent country?), but that was quite a long time ago.

Rђ RІRѕS, story with the MiG-35 showed that today it won't work like that. Yes, the MiG-35 was produced in a series of six planes, yes, it was supposedly put into service, but... Nobody was interested in this plane, and therefore only experts and publicists remember it when they need to give an example like this...

And the Su-57 was almost launched on the same path leading to nowhere. But someone came to their senses, and so they first manufactured, albeit in the same tiny batch of 12 machines, but began to fly them in combat. And this became more interesting to potential buyers, probably, especially when the Ukrainians admitted the loss of two of their planes and a helicopter from Su-57 missiles.

Well, and the show in Zhuhan with the opportunity to touch this plane with your hands (not everyone) and look at it point-blank. And immediately there was such excitement that, apparently, despite the sanctions, the Su-57 will receive identification marks of other countries on their wings and tails.

And here is a list of the five most likely buyers of the Su-57.

Algeria

Algeria is generally the number one buyer of Russian weapons in Africa. The country has a long history of acquiring advanced Russian military equipment, and Algeria began doing so significantly earlier than other foreign customers. They began with a fleet of MiG-25 aircraft, acquired in 1978, and ended with the Pantsir-SM air defense system, acquired in 2018.

Previously, seven Arab countries were significant customers of Russian military equipment, in addition to Algeria, these were also Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan and Libya, but today Algeria remains the only country that has not been destabilized by Western intervention. Syria, you understand, is a consumer, but on slightly different terms than the others.

Algeria has shown signs of planning to acquire Su-57 fighter jets. In recent years, Algerian military officials have been seen with models of the jets, and in 2020, a collage of the jet appeared in the country’s defense ministry. The first batch of jets is reportedly intended to replace the upgraded MiG-25 interceptors, which were decommissioned in June 2022.

There is an opinion that the Su-57 will compete for a place in the Algerian Air Force with the Chinese J-35, but there is a good chance that the Russian aircraft will replace the Su-30MKA and MiG-29 as the main fighter in the 2030s. Still, the Su-57 has more advantages over the J-35, one of which is the long-term operation of Russian-made aircraft in the country's Air Force and the ready infrastructure for servicing Sukhoi Design Bureau fighters.

India

The Indian Air Force has long been considered the primary customer for the Su-57, as was the case with most of the famous fighters of Russia and the Soviet Union. India was the first country to order the Soviet fourth-generation fighters, acquiring the MiG-29 in 1982 after operating the MiG-21 and MiG-23 for many years.

In 2002, it became the first country to purchase Russia's "4+ generation" fighters, the Su-30MKI, which was far more advanced than any fighter in the Russian Air Force at the time. The modified fighter featured the N-011M radar, the first phased array radar ever installed on an export fighter, as well as Su-35 steerable intakes, AL-31FP engines, and thrust vectoring nozzles.

India was previously a partner in the development of the fighter under the joint FGFA programme and was set to receive a fair amount of technology and profits from joint ownership of the programme, although the country eventually pulled out of the deal.

But in the current circumstances, India continues to show great interest in both licensed production and off-the-shelf purchases of Su-57s. In February 2023, it was reported that negotiations were underway on licensed production. The country has acquired more than 270 Su-30MKIs, and given that the fighter fleet is significantly smaller than planned by the Indian Ministry of Defense, purchasing Su-57s on a comparable scale could make up for the shortfall.

It is noteworthy that the very high costs of manufacturing the Su-30MKI in India and the introduction of a number of foreign technologies have made their cost comparable to the cost of new fifth-generation fighters. It sounds crazy, but it is true: the Su-30MKI, manufactured in India, is almost the same price as the Su-57, which was made in Russia.

This means that buying off-the-shelf Su-57s from Russia could be cost-effective. The need for fifth-generation fighters is expected to grow as China continues to rapidly expand its fleet, exporting fifth-generation fighters to Pakistan, forcing India to modernize its air force.

Vietnam

Today, Vietnam has an air force composed almost entirely of Soviet and Russian aircraft, the core of which is the Su-30MK2, but the bulk of which is the modernized but outdated MiG-21 and Su-22.

Despite Vietnam's avowedly peaceful policy, the country nonetheless faces pressure from China over its territorial claims, as well as from the Western bloc over a number of domestic and foreign policy differences.

Vietnam's Su-22 and Su-27 strike fighters are expected to be replaced around 2030, while the country's third class of fighter, the Su-30MK2V, is considered increasingly outdated compared to modern aircraft (Vietnam's versions are over 20 years old), but could be considered for an upgrade to the Su-30SME level, and the Su-30 and Su-57 would make a good pair in this regard.

The Su-57 is currently considered Vietnam's most likely choice for upgrading its air force, as the class's range allows it to patrol the contested waters of the South China Sea from bases within the country.

Vietnam has long resisted acquiring shorter-range fighters such as the MiG-29, preferring the Su-27 and Su-30. The Su-57's very high versatility allows it to replace both the Su-22 and Su-27, thereby increasing the unification of the aircraft fleet by reducing the total number of fighter classes to two. In mid-2017, the Vietnamese newspaper Dat Viet first reported that the Vietnamese armed forces were planning to acquire 12-24 Su-57s by around 2030.

For Vietnam, the choice of Su-57 is really good, because several issues are resolved at once. Mainly, it is about unification, modernization and compliance with customer requirements, and in this regard, everything is fine.

Indonesia

This is where everything is very interesting. As you remember, Indonesia is one of Russia's new clients (with the Soviet Union aviation Indonesia has not cooperated) in that region, but the latest contracts have not gone very well. Indonesia placed its first order for Russian Su-27 fighters in 1997, acquiring a small fleet of 2003 Su-2010s and Su-10s between 27 and 30, and six Su-2013MK30s in 2.

Then there was a contract to buy Su-35, but 2022 came and everything slowed down. The Indonesian military began to consider other options, and the Su-35 was seemingly thrown aside under pressure from the United States.

However, it all turned out like a detective story: out of the blue, in May 2024, Indonesian Ambassador to Russia Jose Tavares confirmed that the $1,14 billion contract signed for the purchase of 11 Su-35S fighters from Russia remained in force. He said the contract had been “suspended to avoid certain potential inconveniences,” but Jakarta was waiting for the situation to become “more favorable” before returning to its implementation.

Diplomatic language can have many interpretations for one phrase, so it is not immediately clear what the ambassador wanted to say.

But the situation is as follows: Indonesia is trying its best to remain neutral, but everyone around is arming at a rapid pace. In a region that is divided into "for" and "against" China, deliveries of aircraft from countries participating in the confrontation are unrealistic.

Indonesia and China currently have decent and warm relations, but China's claims to most of the South China Sea have not been cancelled. Vietnam, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines are all involved in the dispute over these territories to varying degrees.

Having failed to buy the Su-35, the Indonesians decided to buy the Rafale. They bought 6 of them, and apparently that was the end of it, although the contract provided for an extension of the purchase option to 30 of them. But we know how the French do business, so it is understandable that Indonesia got its fill so quickly.

The acquisition of F-35s by neighboring Singapore and Australia, as well as the deployment of both Chinese and American fifth-generation fighters in the region, has raised the possibility that the acquisition of Su-35s will not be seen as sufficient to secure Indonesian airspace, as these fighters are technologically inferior. This is not a fact, but many a contract can be drowned in theoretical calculations, “expert” opinions, and other chaff.

But the F-35 and J-35 will not be sold. This is already clear. Like our neighbors, the Malaysians, we do not want to consider buying an incomprehensible nightmare like Turkish or Indian blanks. So the Su-57 is almost the only normal option for a country that is in the seething cauldron of passions in the South China Sea.

As Indonesia continues to rapidly strengthen its defense ties with Russia, as evidenced by reports of new arms purchases, there remains a significant possibility that the country will acquire the Su-57 instead of the Su-35. Extensive efforts to “protect Indonesia’s economy from sanctions” have paved the way for the country to make such acquisitions, despite Western threats of economic warfare if it does.

North Korea

North Korean officials have shown interest in acquiring advanced Russian fighter jets for several years and in September 2023 inspected facilities at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant in Vladivostok, where the Su-35 and Su-57 are produced.

Aviation remains one of the few areas in which North Korea's large defense sector cannot produce for its own needs. Since the early 2000s, the country has been unable to acquire new Russian fighter jets due to a UN Security Council arms embargo.

Meanwhile, the fleet of North Korean combat aircraft makes a depressing impression, since its core consists of MiG-29B and MiG-23. And the rest are MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21 and their Chinese copies. The DPRK Air Force does not have modern aircraft for the above reason.

However, the conclusion of a strategic cooperation agreement between Russia and the DPRK may push all UN prohibitions into the background. And, as the South Koreans from "Military Watch" write maliciously, Russia will easily be able to find loopholes and bypass the existing UN embargo on the supply of aircraft to North Korea, thereby significantly strengthening the country's Air Force.

One notable possibility that experts point to is the creation, within the framework of a strategic agreement, of joint units in which Russian personnel could be involved in order to avoid labeling deliveries of modern aircraft as exports.

In October 2024, South Korean government sources reported that North Korean combat pilots had been sent to Vladivostok, raising the possibility that they may have begun training on advanced fighter jets.

With North Korean sources expressing serious concerns about the deployment of F-35s to South Korea and Japan, acquiring Su-57s to support the country's increasingly sophisticated ground-based air defenses (again, with Russian SAMs) would be an effective countermeasure.

Therefore, North Korea should be included in the list of potential buyers and even placed above other countries, given the relations between Russia and the DPRK. Of course, everyone in South Korea does not like this, but, in my opinion, the South Koreans have nothing to worry about yet: their Air Force, equipped with F-15, F-16, F-35 and their T-50 Golden Eagle, and in the future KF-21 Boramae, is quantitatively and qualitatively superior to the North Korean Air Force. And to create at least approximate parity, no less than a hundred Su-57s will be needed. And the production of such a number of aircraft is not a matter of one year, especially considering the presence of other interested parties and the interests of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

In general, we can and should state the fact that the "iron curtain" around Russia, initiated by the US and the EU, is slowly starting to rust. Sanctions are, of course, a serious matter, but air border security is no less important.

The US is unable to provide everyone who wants its F-35, and even those who are already blessed with these aircraft are not all squealing with delight, since operating this aircraft is a very, very expensive business. China will not share its fifth-generation aircraft with everyone for the same reasons that the US did not put its F-22 on sale. And when Europe gives birth to its own projects is generally more of a joke.

So yes, the Su-57 is the only affordable fifth-generation fighter option, especially for those who don't want to depend on the US and spend fabulous sums on maintenance. In general, everyone knows that Russian aircraft are inexpensive and very angry for the enemy. These are not aircraft for exhibitions. Yes, there may be screws with different splines, I don't argue. And at an exhibition, this is very much not comme il faut.

But in combat, all our planes have always proven only one thing: their professional suitability for combat operations, from Korea to Ukraine. So those who take the risk will probably drink champagne.

Comments

[Feodor13]

Turkey should not be ruled out.
The Turks, unlike all of the above (even India), can actually create their own combat aircraft, the 5PK.

Arguments in favor of Turkey:
1. Su-57 is cheaper than F-35.
2. It is not yet a fact that KAAN will "fly".
2. If KAAN does go into production, reverse engineering from the Su-57 won't prevent some "finishing" in it.
3. The US finally approved the S-400 yesterday. This means that the "path" to our military industry is open again.

[ASSAD1]

How can a plane with two engines, say 30 units produced, be cheaper than a plane with one engine and 1100 units produced?

[Vladimir-TTT]

Just like the RD-180 for the Americans, it was produced using budget funds.
And they sold it through special organizations, which included many “interested parties.”

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: ASSAD1

How can a plane with two engines, let's say 30 of them, be cheaper than a plane with one engine?

The price of an aircraft is determined not only by the number of engines installed

[APASUS]

Quote: ASSAD1

How can a plane with two engines, say 30 units produced, be cheaper than a plane with one engine and 1100 units produced?

It's very simple: multiply $80 million by 100. It's all about the difference in exchange rates.

[sgrabik]

If you take into account the ruble to dollar ratio, then everything is absolutely correct, Western weapons have always been many times more expensive than ours, but at the same time they are far from always better.

[Vitov]

People who are far from aviation and, in general, have no idea about the operation of an aircraft, are discussing the issue of buying something incomprehensible by someone incomprehensible?! The 5th generation aircraft operates in the information space based on modern reconnaissance equipment, means of transmitting and processing information in real time and is itself an element of this information space. Did you hear? It is assumed that this aircraft has the most advanced equipment on board, created on the basis of modern achievements in technology and production. Let's streamline it powerfully, kids!
Now the question is: which countries can have a 5th generation aircraft? All the features of a 5th generation aircraft such as stealth, supersonic speed without afterburner, super maneuverability, AESA, the presence of covered channels for transmitting large amounts of information in real time serve for the successful operation of the aircraft in the information space. Do we have it? Global, limited, tactical?
They are firing missiles at the Kursk region, and we are intercepting them, but not destroying the launchers in quantities of 3 to 7 pieces, not recording the launch site in real time. What information space, what reconnaissance and detection means?

[Dilettante grandfather]

SAMs are not strike weapons. The Su-57 is. Turkey is a NATO country. I don't think we will supply strike weapons to an alliance country.

[sgrabik]

I think that selling equipment like the Su-57 to everyone, left and right, without any discrimination, is unreasonable and unacceptable; in addition to someone’s private mercantile interests, there are also interests of national security.

[Dilettante grandfather]

I think that selling equipment like the Su-57 to everyone, left and right, without any discrimination, is unreasonable and unacceptable; in addition to someone’s private mercantile interests, there are also interests of national security.

I agree. But it is useful to supply such a fighter to some countries. The DPRK, for example.

[newtc7]

But selling a 5th generation fighter to a potential enemy is nonsense.

[Seneca]

"our own bourgeois" cannot be opponents, yesterday "a knife in the back" today a strategic partnership. That's how things are.

[Lech from Android.]

I wonder if the SU-57 will be sold together with the Hunter, or separately?
He he...whoever gives the correct answer will get their 10 years.

[Romario_Argo]

On the way from the Lyulka Design Bureau is a multi-mode jet-direct-flow-detonation engine
under the aerospace fighter - interceptor - bomber
and very high probability - a drone
like it will be some kind of AL-61

[Doccor18]

Quote: Lech from Android.

I wonder if the SU-57 will be sold together with the Hunter

And with a ready pilot...

[mark1]

But someone came to their senses, and so they first produced, albeit in a tiny batch of 12 cars, but began to race them in a combat-ready manner.

It is said as if they were only thinking about creating an image for commercial appeal and not about testing it in combat conditions before mass production.

China won't share its fifth-generation aircraft with everyone just yet

And it turns out that we will start "sharing" with just anyone
In my opinion, the years of cooling and criticism (even if unfair and biased) towards the Su-57 actually played to its advantage, since they somewhat dampened the unhealthy passion to sell everything and anyone at once (this tendency was very clearly outlined at first) and forced us to pay more attention to the needs of our own Armed Forces. Now, however, the greedy flame is starting to flare up again in some eyes. Here's how to stop this unhealthy tendency and come to the principle - first to yourself, then to friends/allies (trusted), then to anyone (since you really want to), but never to sell to enemies, even if the business seems tempting.

[Dutchman Michel]

And no one is talking about poorly fitted connections and screws sticking out in all directions?

[RuAbel]

Not anymore. After the journalists found out that they were given an old prototype, a test factory sample, to touch.

[Skif3216]

1 Algeria - no money, or more precisely not for a serious batch. 2 Indonesia - not sure we need that much palm oil. 3 We won't sell to Vietnam ourselves, otherwise the price of import substitution will jump twofold, if it works at all. 4 DPRK - everything we need can be exchanged for food and a number of non-critical technologies, and we don't need an extra million 155 mm shells from the South Koreans on the front. 5 India - it's warmer here, but there's a long dance with a tambourine, plus they'll try to palm off a couple of ships of their rupees on us, considering that a third of gray oil goes through them, we'll have to agree. So only for ourselves, and then on the wave of victory we might be able to sign someone.

[Blackmokona]

India and Vietnam are getting closer to the US due to the standoff with China, so the F-35 will be closer to them

[Skif3216]

Yes, it is clear, after we became almost completely dependent on China for imports, the chances of deliveries are extremely unlikely, but at least they exist. But I think the general director of the Rosoboronexport concern, Alexander Mikheyev, is putting a good face on a bad game, it will be like with "chess" - they will grumble for a couple of months and forget, unless of course tomorrow the Su-57 starts bombing Kyiv with free-fall bombs, which is unlikely.

[bayard]

Quote: Skif3216

it will be like with "chess" they will grumble for a couple of months and then forget,

The Su-75 is preparing for its first takeoff in December of this year, so it was a good thing that they forgot about it - they didn’t interfere with the busy work.

Quote: Skif3216

unless of course tomorrow the Su-57 starts bombing Kyiv with free-fall bombs, which is unlikely.

Why would he do such stupidity? They have already suppressed the Sumerian air defense so much that Su-25s are once again freely cutting through the battlefield and bombing the Ukrainian Armed Forces with free-falling FABs from flight.
The Su-57 has real victories in air combat, a lot of high-precision strikes from the invisibility mode for the enemy (from the distance of invisibility for its radar) and experience of missions to the operational rear over enemy territory without any losses (mainly the 1st phase of the Air Defense Forces).

Quote: Skif3216

after we became almost completely dependent on China for imports, the chances of supplies are extremely unlikely,

It seems quite probable that China will purchase a batch of a couple of squadrons of Su-57E. To study the technologies and qualitatively strengthen its own Air Force in a specific direction. Just as a batch of 24 Su-35SE was purchased before.

[bayard]

Quote: BlackMokona

India and Vietnam are getting closer to the US due to the standoff with China, so the F-35 will be closer to them

They won't sell them the F-35, the Indians have already tried. There's a queue until at least 2040, the US can't increase its capacity, and many who have looked at it don't want to. All those involved are currently being tried for the Rafale scams in India. Vietnam needs a heavy fighter with a long radius and a light single-engine to replace the MiG-21. That is, the Su-57 and, in the future, the Su-75 are going down well.
And India needs our Su-57s now - Pakistan is already receiving J-35s, and China's 5th generation fleet is growing by leaps and bounds. There is no one else to supply them except us. So they are already talking about the Su-75 (Modi and Putin in Kazan on Modi's initiative) and they want the Su-57, and the two-seater model too (which we also needed).

[Blackmokona]

Quote: bayard

They won't sell them the F-35, the Indians have already tried. There's a queue until at least 2040, the US can't increase its capacity.

They can, not to mention that part of what the US ordered can be reoriented to India if necessary. They brought it to the exhibition, which means they want to sell it.

BANGALORE /India/, February 13. /TASS/. Fifth-generation fighters F-35A Lightning II and F-35A Joint Strike Fighter of the American company Lockheed Martin took part in the international air show Aero India 2023 for the first time, a TASS correspondent reports.

[bayard]

Quote: BlackMokona

They can, not to mention that part of what the US ordered can be reoriented to India if necessary. They brought it to the exhibition, which means they want to sell it.

Yes, it looks like India itself is not too impressed with the Lightning, and they certainly won't be able to deliver it on time. Modi was very interested in the work on the Su-75, they need a light fighter. And they can agree on assembly in India. But the gypsies dance intricately, so we'll see what happens.

[Blackmokona]

Quote: bayard

Yes, it looks like India itself is not too impressed with the Lightning, and they certainly won't be able to deliver it on time. Modi was very interested in the work on the Su-75, they need a light fighter. And they can agree on assembly in India. But the gypsies dance intricately, so we'll see what happens.

Well, the Su-75 is in much lower readiness and availability for delivery than the Lightning.

[bayard]

Modi wants both Su-57 and Su-75. Su-75 to replace MiG-21, MiG-29, Mirage-2000, etc.
And Lightning is currently behind schedule for deliveries to those on the waiting list, so they certainly won't move anyone for India's sake. But they might offer to get in line and make an advance payment.
The choice is up to the Indians.

[Blackmokona]

Quote: bayard

And Lightning is now behind schedule in deliveries for those on the waiting list.

And Russia is waging a full-scale war, which is why all the weapons are going to the front.

[bayard]

That's true. But Russia has produced the Su-57. And it has been tested well in the war. And now production is being launched. If we push production on one line (a new workshop, 30 units per year is the design capacity), then we will be building the minimum of 300 units required for the Aerospace Forces in 10 years. And if we launch a second such line (they are already preparing it), it will be twice as expensive, but then, having quickly satisfied domestic demand, the lines will then remain idle. And such investments should not only pay off, but also bring profit. The Ministry of Defense purchases aircraft with a minimal markup over cost ... But export is a completely different matter. In addition, we need to arm all allies and partners, this is not only business, but also long-term policy. Judging by the delivery dates of the first batch to Algeria, it is the second assembly line that will produce them. Perhaps it will all be focused on export. And for the VKS, a regimental set per year (30 units) will be quite enough, we still need to train pilots, technicians, infrastructure for them, and our training of flight and technical personnel is not very fast - one flight university for the whole country, with branches of course. Su-30SM2 for Naval Aviation, Su-34M and Su-35S\SM continue to arrive in the troops and orders for them have been increased, planned deliveries of all these types should also reach the level of 30 aircraft per year from next year.

Quote: BlackMokona

And Russia is waging a full-scale war,

Yes, but pilots are trained as long as they are trained.
The export contract price for the Su-57 is stated as "around 150 million dollars." And the Ministry of Defense buys these aircraft for at least 50 million dollars at the exchange rate (initially a lower price was named, but I think it was precisely because of this pricing policy that serial production began so slowly and with such difficulty (Shoigu, Shevtsov and Co.). With such a domestic price, investments will never be recouped. But for export - easily.

[paul3390]

It seems to me that Algeria and Indonesia don't really need the 5th generation, who are they going to fight with? The Su-35 is more than enough for their potential adversaries. Vietnam is an open question, and it's true that it's better not to anger China. The DPRK - there's no point, I don't think that any aircraft will last long in their conditions, even the most sophisticated one. They'd better have better air defense. India is a mystery country, no one knows what will hit them in the head tomorrow, you can expect anything from them at any moment. And in general - the tenders there seem to be mostly won based on the criterion of what will give the most profit to certain officials...

[Doccor18]

Quote: paul3390

It seems to me that Algeria and Indonesia don't really need the 5th generation.

Anyone who thinks about their future security needs the 5th generation.

Quote: paul3390

Who are they going to fight with?

They have plenty of geopolitical opponents. Algeria has Morocco, Indonesia has Singapore and Malaysia...

Quote: paul3390

The Su-35 will be more than enough for their potential opponents.

For today, maybe, but for tomorrow?

Quote: paul3390

Vietnam is an open question

The US will do everything to prevent Vietnam and Indonesia from acquiring our 5s, and by the way, India too...

[English tarantas]

Morocco, Singapore and Malaysia

Famous leading military powers of the world.
But seriously,

Anyone who thinks about their future security needs the 5th generation.

It's hard to disagree. The same Algeria can really be a promising buyer of the Su-57. To avoid becoming the second Libya. There were enough targets for the 5th. Both NATO aviation and the Turks-Arabs, with their modern air defense systems.

[Doccor18]

Quote: English tarantass

Morocco, Singapore and Malaysia
Famous leading military powers of the world.

Morocco, Singapore and Malaysia are not very impressive in terms of their armed forces, but as allies of the overseas hegemon, they can always become its jump-off point, and this must be taken into account. Therefore, the Algerian authorities prudently pay close attention to the issues of modernization of the national air defense/air force. As for Indonesia and Vietnam, they are under colossal political and economic pressure, which they are unlikely to be able to overcome without outside help...

[English tarantas]

but being allies of the overseas hegemon, they can always become its jump-off point

There is always Europe nearby, the same Spain and Sicily, and in the east Australia, the Philippines and Thailand.
And besides, countries that own aircraft carriers, and especially the US, do not need jump airfields. The US does not need anything in the Asia-Pacific region, it has been their "home" for a hundred years, if not more. And I think it is ridiculous to consider Singapore as a military force. It will certainly only be able to become an airfield and a port. It will be problematic to even quarter an adequate group of troops there)

As for Indonesia and Vietnam, they are under enormous political and economic pressure, which they are unlikely to be able to overcome without outside help...

Yes, these guys themselves would like to exert pressure in their regions. But they are confronting China and the USA, and simply purchasing weapons will not be enough, you could even say a poultice for a dead man. Look at the Saudis, how much money they spend on the army, and they are only so-so leaders of the Middle East.

[Seneca]

The DPRK hardly needs food, I suspect that China supplies food, clothes and smartphones, they don’t really need them, but all sorts of airplanes are probably more necessary, they could have sold them an Armata, maybe they could have sent another 50 thousand, and some shells wouldn’t hurt either, there’s never enough of them.

[English tarantas]

North Korea hardly needs food

It is necessary. Investments in industry are very much needed. From fertilizers to power plants.

I suspect that food, clothes and smartphones are supplied by China, they don't really need them

It supplies, but not that much. As well as investments in the DPRK economy. China is very cautious in its interactions with the DPRK. The Chinese have nothing to gain from the DPRK. They have plenty of their own slave labor, resources and production too. But the Chinese do not want to strain relations with their neighbors and the Americans because of the DPRK, it is not worth it. And ours do not care. And ours need a market for those things that the Chinese cannot offer or do not want. The same services for the construction of power plants or the supply of high-tech products and goods in exchange for slave labor, machine tool building and missing products in the army + a gigantic market for military products in itself. Ours are not afraid to quarrel with the South Koreans, Japan and the USA.

They could have sold them some armata too

Aircraft and air defense are more necessary, it's just burning as it should be. As well as modern anti-tank weapons, reconnaissance, communications and a bunch of other technological and advanced things. And they have nothing to fear in terms of ground forces. Nuclear weapons completely equalize the advanced and expensive army of the ROK with the backward and impoverished army of the DPRK.

[Reklastik]

Could you have less pictures and fluff in the text next time? The footnote is long, it takes a long time to scroll down.

[Buskan]

. Su-57: No queue, but only for now

1 When reading such articles, I am always interested in whether the author himself believes in what he is trying to convince readers of? 2 What queues (in the future) does the author dream of? Does Avto seriously believe that an incomprehensible product su57, which exists in individual raw copies, can interest someone?
3 The author understands that in the third year of the SVO (THE THIRD!) the enemy's air defense has not been suppressed (it is better not to recall Operation Desert Storm or Yugoslavia) and our aviation is actually working as bombers.
4 How many articles have there already been on VO about the unique Boreas, Poseidons, and Armatas. Where are these wonder weapons in commercial quantities in our army?

[d ^ Amir]

that in the third year of the SVO (THIRD!) the enemy's air defense has not been suppressed

And the critic understands that all of Europe, the USA and other countries work for the Hohlein air defense system!?!?!

It's better not to remember Operation Desert Storm or Yugoslavia

of course not to remember, because the then obsolete air defense systems were attacked by the newest aircraft of NATO, the US and US allies

an incomprehensible product su57, which exists in individual raw copies

and where did you get the information from, citizen, about whether the SU-57 is raw or not??? did you personally fly it??? did you at least sit in the cockpit??? no??? so maybe you were at least at the airfield??? again no??? do you have any relation to aviation at all??? I only have to civil aviation, and only as a more or less regular passenger of airlines

about the unique boreas, poseidons, armatas

you with a personal report daily???? Will the Minister of Defense arrange it or only if it is done personally and HIMSELF???

[Oldrover]

because the then obsolete air defense systems were attacked by the newest NATO, US and US allied aircraft

At the start of the Second World War, Ukraine's air defense was not much better than Iraq's.

[d ^ Amir]

What are you talking about!!!! S-300 UkrainianIs it as bad as Iraq's S-200??? Or are the BUKs lost somewhere???
The ground forces are armed with operational equipment (formally there was more equipment, but it was used for spare parts) as of February 24, 2022: about 850 main battle tanks (T-64 BM / BV / BV-1 / B / B1, T-84U, T-80BV, various modifications of the T-72), about 1 infantry fighting vehicles (mainly BMP-000), about 2 armored personnel carriers, about 1200 armored cars (mainly modifications of the BRDM-400), formally about 2 Tochka / Tochka-U OTRK launchers (90-12 are operational), about 16 MLRS (BM-300, BM-21, "Smerch"), about 27 self-propelled guns (200S2, 1S2, 3S2, 7S2), about 19 towed guns (500A2, D-65, the most common types are 30A2, D-36, anti-tank guns MT-20),some Tunguska anti-aircraft missile systems, about 20 Shilka anti-aircraft guns, several Strela-10M and Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile systems, 600 Igla man-portable air defense systems Army aviation consisted of about 50 helicopters (various modifications of the Mi-24, Mi-8).

The Air Force and Air Defense are armed with about 30 Su-25 attack aircraft, and approximately the same number of Su-27, MiG-29, and some Su-24. In total, there are about 60-70 aircraft in combat formation. The Air Force has about 20-30 multi-purpose helicopters (Mi-8, Mi-2MSB), over 100 attack UAVs (Bayraktar TB2),The air defense system is represented by about 200 S-300 PT/PS SAM launchers, 72 Buk SAM launchers, 48 ​​S-125 Pechora-2D SAM launchers, as well as a certain number of Tor and Kub-2D SAM systems.
Two hundred S-300 launchers!!! TWO HUNDRED!!!! not counting the rest of the stuff, plus how much they brought from Europe and the whole world... probably for the one declared, ten on the quiet, so as not to embarrass themselves completely
taken from here: https://dzen.ru/a/Y6r3yXXPsG4IZWwT

[Oldrover]

It is very bad in this case that the General Staff did not read Yandex Zen and began the SVO with insufficient forces.

[d ^ Amir]

quiet, quiet, there's something about air defense not being better than Iraq's... so what??? better or worse??? and most importantly, where is it now??? knocked out by ours... it's not for me to judge the lack of forces, but the Republics held the front quite well
Yandex Zen?!?! Well, okay, here is Khramchikhin from 10.02.2022/20/42 00:300:XNUMX from Nezavisimaya Gazeta... you won't suspect them of excessive statehood??? and S-XNUMX, and Tunguskas and BUKs and a full set of MANPADS
https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-10/3_1176_airdefense.html

[Oldrover]

Yes, everything is more or less the same as the Ukrainian one at the time of the beginning of the SVO. If the Americans had started the SVO against Ukraine, the Ukrainian air defense would have been suppressed just as the Iraqi air defense.
The only thing I don’t agree with is the initial complaint about the Su-57 in the context of non-suppressed air defense, because here we need not just one Su-57, but satellite reconnaissance assets, AWACS aircraft, high-precision weapons, etc.

[d ^ Amir]

If Russia had started a SVO like the Americans did against Iraq, there wouldn't even be any cockroaches in this desert now!!!!!!!!

[Oldrover]

So in Iraq the US did not destroy the country into rubble, even here in the VO they dismantled it, the technological advantage gave a quick result

Perhaps the most important lesson of the SVO
https://topwar.ru/225946-vozmozhno-vazhnejshij-urok-svo.html

Firstly, the troops of Saddam Hussein who opposed the MNF had combat experience gained in the Iran-Iraq conflict, which lasted for many years, sometimes became very “hot” but could not give the parties the skills of modern warfare due to the well-known archaism of the armed forces, like Iraq, as well as Iran. The Ukrainian Armed Forces gained similar experience during the fighting in the LPR and DPR.


Thirdly, Iraq had a highly developed, but to a certain extent outdated air defense system, based on the S-75 and S-125 air defense systems, which in 1990 were clearly no longer at the forefront of technological progress. The same can be said about Ukraine: by 2022, even its newest air defense systems were complexes produced back in Soviet times. While the same S-300 in the Russian Federation was constantly being modernized, there was no money for this in the “Independence”.

And, of course, we should not forget that the RF Armed Forces, starting from 2010, received much more funding, and (at least theoretically) should have been far superior in equipment to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

In general, many parallels can be drawn between NWO and Desert Storm. But “Desert Storm” ended with a convincing victory for the MNF less than a month and a half from its start, and the Russian Armed Forces, after a year and a half of hostilities, are on the strategic defense. Why?
Disarming strike

On January 1991, 600, MNF aviation with up to XNUMX combat aircraft launched a massive attack on the territory of Kuwait and Iraq.
The US Air Force and its allies deployed their full range of capabilities without missing a beat. Where it was justified, helicopters that “sneaked up” at low altitude were used to suppress air defense. The positions of Iraqi air defense systems and radar stations were further reconnaissance by specially formed aviation demonstration groups, which used TALD decoys to simulate missile launches. This, naturally, forced the Iraqi crews to turn on the radar and fight, completely unmasking themselves.

But the Iraqi air defense radars were suppressed by electronic warfare (EW) aircraft, which caused massive jamming and used a lot of anti-radar missiles, and the air defense missile systems were destroyed by high-precision weapons. The Americans also used Tomahawk cruise missiles, but in relatively small quantities. What is important is that their use was coordinated in time with the actions of the MNF strike aircraft.

The result is that the main Iraqi air defense forces were destroyed during the first strike. First! Undoubtedly, Iraq had a certain number of operational air defense systems until the very end of hostilities; they fought and even shot down MNF aircraft. Iraq's air defense lost, of course, not completely, but still miserably: the Iraqis were unable to protect the ground armed forces and infrastructure from systematic destruction from the air.

Alas, the Russian Aerospace Forces were not only able to destroy, but even seriously failed to scratch the Ukrainian air defense. And to this day they are forced to avoid airspace over the territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

[d ^ Amir]

Unfortunately, the Russian Aerospace Forces were unable to seriously scratch Ukraine's air defense, let alone destroy it.

Apparently, they are begging for air defense all over the world because of the gigantic air victory... but yeah!!!! they weren't able to scratch...

[paul3390]

1. Well, the mass-produced, completely raw F-35 product has interested a lot of countries, right?
2. How many countries can count on constant supplies of modern air defense systems and missiles for them? Evon - the mattress-makers also failed to suppress the Vietnamese air defense in their time. Because, like the Bandar-logs, they were constantly given fresh batteries.
3. Boreas seem to be in the series, neither you nor I are supposed to know about Poseidons for obvious reasons, Armata - in the current situation it seems like it is not really needed at the front, it would be better to really polish it up to perfection for now...

[Oldrover]

Avon - the mattress-makers also failed to suppress the Vietnamese air defense in their time

It was right after the Vietnam War that they invested heavily in electronic warfare, reconnaissance, and air defense suppression equipment.

[d ^ Amir]

and so what??? if they invested so much, then why don't they fly over Moscow??? do you think they would be so shy if they could suppress our air defense??? would they at least honor some treaties??? NO!!! if something keeps this bastard on a chain (on a chain, on a chain) it is the fact that we have a very capable Air Force and Air Defense and Missile Forces, otherwise they would really have arranged "15 million for servicing pipelines"...

[bayard]

Quote: Buskan

2 What kind of queues (in the future) does the author dream about?

In fact, applications from several countries have been received and the first contracts have already been signed. A contract has been signed with Algeria for the first batch of 14 units - this is the only specifics, everything else is kept secret so as not to cause harm.

Quote: Buskan

unknown product su57

For those gifted in an alternative way, even a hammer is an extremely incomprehensible product.

Quote: Buskan

which exists in individual raw copies, might be of interest to anyone?

In fact, there are already at least 40 serial Su-57s in the troops. And this is the only 5th generation aircraft actively used in a modern conflict, with a record of downed aircraft (the F-22 only has a ball), a huge number of suppressed and destroyed enemy air defense systems and radars, and targets destroyed by precision munitions.

Quote: Buskan

) Enemy air defenses are not suppressed (

It has been suppressed to a significant extent, so much so that in certain areas of the front our Su-25s are already flying over the battlefield again and bombing the enemy with FABs from above.

Quote: Buskan

It's better not to remember Operation Desert Storm or Yugoslavia

Where did coalitions of the richest and most developed countries in the world fight against small countries?
The Russian Armed Forces, with limited forces (!), have been fighting for the third year against the largest coalition of Western countries on the territory of the former Soviet Union. And they are winning.
According to Arestovich, in just under 3 years, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have lost 200 people and over 1 million people who died of wounds in hospitals. Another million are crippled and disabled after serious wounds. And about 200-300 thousand deserters. According to him, there are currently 700 thousand in service. And mobilization no longer covers the losses. This is said by Arestovich, who until recently was the chief propagandist of the Don b\U.

Quote: Buskan

Our aviation actually works as bombers.

As befits aviation in war. And also very energetically suppresses air defense and hits enemy aircraft and ground targets with various types of high-precision weapons.

Quote: Buskan

4 How many articles have there already been on VO about the unique boreas, poseidons, armatas. Where are these wonder weapons in commercial quantities?

"Boreys" and "Borey-A" are in service, with one new one arriving every year. In commercial quantities. (The US is not capable of building at such a rate).
"Poseidons" have been accepted into service, two SSNs-carriers of them are already in service, the rest are under construction. A division of such SSNs-carriers of "Poseidons" has been formed, a base for them has been built in Kamchatka. This was covered at the time by VO. Did you miss it?
So many times?
And our army doesn't need "Armata" in such a form even for free. As a concept - it will do. And this was clear almost immediately when its form became known. Hysterics of illiterate journalists don't count - they are like "little children" - they don't know anything, but they chat about everything. It's called hype-eating.

[Ryazan87]

What I like about you is your degree of optimism. Sometimes I even envy you.
But I wanted to ask something else: what's going on with the MiG-35? We had a conversation once, maybe you remember? Since you know about the number of serial Su-57s in the troops and the results of their use, then you can probably enlighten me here too.

[bayard]

Nothing is clear yet with the MiG-35S, the first batch was supposed to be delivered by the end of this year, but this is according to plans from two years ago, although the head of the UAC said a year ago that the construction of the MiG-35S was starting and there were "foreign customers" for it (i.e. at least two). Since the Anglo-Saxons are constantly plotting against us with the calculations, all such deliveries are kept secret and there is no information. It is also unclear whether the issue with the onboard radar for it has been resolved. In light of the fact that work on the Su-75 is slightly ahead of schedule, they could have abandoned the MiG-35 altogether. In principle, the Su-75 is a slightly redesigned and adapted for the new LFMI engine of the MiG Design Bureau. If the Su-75 takes off before the New Year, the MiG-35S will most likely not be purchased for the VKS.
The MiG-35S should have been launched into production 5-6 years ago, then it would have definitely been in time.

[Ryazan87]

If the Su-75 takes off before the New Year, the MiG-35S will most likely not be purchased for the VKS. The MiG-35S should have been launched into production 5-6 years ago, then it would have definitely been in time.

In December 2023, you were much more optimistic about this:
"....This is the topic on which tests are being conducted. And factories are preparing for production.
Or they are already making a reserve for these orders.
According to some data, new MiG-35S can be expected next year. And since the production cycle of such an aircraft from laying to delivery is approximately 1 year ... this means that production has already been launched."
However, everyone can make mistakes. The Anglo-Saxons are causing harm again.
That's when you also wrote:
"...Holland is already refusing to supply its F-16s, funding is being curtailed, supplies are being cut. The US and NATO have burned their strategic ammunition reserves and old weapons in Ukraine, spent crazy amounts of money, and now they only dream of a truce in order to keep their assets in second-hand condition."
And then, just like that, yesterday:
"The last batch of Dutch F-16 fighters has been delivered to Ukrainian cadets"
https://topwar.ru/254516-dlja-ukrainskih-kursantov-peredana-poslednjaja-partija-gollandskih-istrebitelej-f-16.html
And also:
"The US is preparing a new package of military aid to Ukraine worth $725 million - Reuters."
https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/22518041
It is also scary that “Modi wants both the Su-57 and the Su-75. The Su-75 to replace the MiG-21, MiG-29, Mirage-2000, etc.”, because then you said that:
"....I wouldn't be surprised if India also dumped its MiG-29s from the first purchases, because just before our SVO it requested an URGENT (!) delivery of a large batch of MiG-29s from the RF Ministry of Defense (about 50 units) supposedly for high-altitude airfields in the Himalayas."
Maybe we shouldn't sell anything to the Indians then, what do you think?

[bayard]

Quote: Ryazanets87

In December 2023, you were much more optimistic about this:
"....This is the topic on which tests are being conducted. And factories are preparing for production.
Or they are already making a reserve for these orders.

I am still optimistic, the year is not over. The head of the UAC and the purchase of MiG-35S for the Aerospace Forces of the Ministry of Defense spoke vaguely about it, but the UAC spoke about the presence of foreign customers. If the first deliveries are to them, we will not see any reports or reports. No one will put such contracts or even the facts of deliveries on display for the sake of sanctions. And the message about the transfer to our Aerospace Forces is very scanty, without specifics or figures.

Quote: Ryazanets87

However, everyone can make mistakes.

The year is not over, and these machines were expected by the end of the year. If there is a delay with delivery - next year. If to foreign customers - we will definitely not see reports.

Quote: Ryazanets87

And then, just like that, yesterday:
"The last batch of Dutch F-16 fighters has been delivered to Ukrainian cadets"

So what?? How can this light 4th generation fighter be "unusual" or dangerous for our air defense, our aviation and ground forces? It is noticeably inferior to the MiG-29 in all parameters from speed, responsiveness (acceleration/rapid acceleration), maneuverability, runway requirements, power/range of radar vision. This is a very average aircraft. In addition, our Aerospace Forces fight exclusively on heavy machines of the 4++ or 5th generation, so the appearance of these We simply didn't notice any cadets (do you even understand the meaning of the word "cadet"?) on ancient and capricious in terms of maintenance and basing conditions LIGHT fighters. Especially "Ukrainian cadets" on old capricious NATO fighters.

Quote: Ryazanets87

"The US is preparing a new package of military aid to Ukraine worth $725 million - Reuters."

They are always preparing something, what is new about this? A new team will enter the White House at the end of January. That's when there might be intrigue.

Quote: Ryazanets87

Maybe we shouldn't sell anything to the Indians then, what do you think?

If they put things in order with payments and decide on the order, why not deliver? They buy a lot. They need to rearm their Air Forces - China and Pakistan are not asleep.

[English tarantas]

a hammer is a very incomprehensible product

Do you think the comparison of the Su-57 with a hammer is relevant? Am I right in understanding that for you personally the design of the Su-57 is as clear as a hammer?

And this is the only 5th generation aircraft actively used in a modern conflict, with a record of downed aircraft (the F-22 only has a ball), a huge number of suppressed and destroyed enemy air defense systems and radars, and targets destroyed by precision munitions.

It's a fact, I don't argue. But in contrast, I'll still remind you of the basic truth.

"To fight a hundred times and win a hundred times is not the best of the best; the best of the best is to subdue another's army without fighting."

Where did coalitions of the richest and most developed countries in the world fight against small countries?

What about first the army of peace fighting a rusty remnant of the Soviet army of the 80s?

The Russian Armed Forces with limited forces (!)

What is the number of forces involved? Including, of course, those who "will not be sent to the SVO zone", but in fact were transferred to the western borders as a de facto defense.
The forces are so limited that they required mobilization of almost a third of the pre-SVO strength to maintain the overall combat capability of the Armed Forces. Not forgetting about the constant replenishment of contract soldiers and volunteers, not called up by mobilization and people who purposefully went to military registration and enlistment offices to undergo compulsory military service due to the beginning of the SVO.

with the largest coalition of Western countries on the territory of the former

Where is it? A solid coalition on the territory. Supplies on credit and as a gift, instructor personnel, training, limited volunteers and assistance from intelligence and communications - this is not a coalition. Huge amounts of aid, which, like the shells and equipment of the Russian Armed Forces, contrary to words, do not end or decrease. But this is far from all that Western (and not only Western) countries have. There is no need to exaggerate. As well as to understate. The aid is colossal, but we are not at war with "NATO".

And wins

And, remind me, what declared strategic goals were achieved? Yes, the RF Armed Forces are successful and are crushing the enemy, and I am sure that soon our forces will push the Ukrainian Armed Forces out of Russian territories, both new and old. But until this happens, there is no point in talking about any clear victories. Everything could very well turn into a continuation of the positional deadlock, and this can hardly be called a victory.

This is Arestovich speaking - until recently the chief propagandist of the Don b\u.

And now he is an anti-Ukrainian propagandist. He broadcasts whatever is watched more, whatever is paid more money for. You know Arestovich's principles and still consider it appropriate and decent to refer to him)
And now the main thing I wanted to know from you)

Our army doesn't need "Armata" in such a form even for free. As a concept - it will do. And this was clear almost immediately when its appearance became known.

What exactly do you personally dislike about the Armata? What is it that fundamentally prevents it from being adopted? What is wrong with the "look"? Didn't they weld on a canopy to protect against drones?
Maybe you know about some of its characteristics that I don’t know?
Can you give me the point-by-point description of Armata? It's just my favorite topic)

[bayard]

Quote: English tarantass

Do you think the comparison of the Su-57 with a hammer is relevant?

I compared a specific character and his level of knowledge about the subject.

Quote: English tarantass

In contrast, however, I will remind you of the basic truth.
"To fight a hundred times and win a hundred times is not the best of the best; the best of the best is to subdue another's army without fighting."

For us this is no longer relevant - we are already at war, and in war it is necessary to win and solve the strategic tasks of this war.

Quote: English tarantass

What about the first army in the world?

We have never called ourselves such. Right now - it is already quite possible. If we are talking about the Ground Army and the Strategic Nuclear Forces.

Quote: English tarantass

fighting with a rusty remnant of the Soviet army of the 80s?

In fact, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been preparing for war with us for 8 years. So, they have cleaned off the rust in many places. And we have destroyed those "scraps" several times already. There are no weapons of the three best Soviet military districts left, nor of the three most powerful air defense armies. Everything has been destroyed. And a lot of everything supplied by the former "Warsaw people" and weapons bought around the world (Soviet production) have been destroyed. As well as a huge amount of enemy manpower. And our losses in relation to the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are approximately 1 to 5. But in some areas of the front, the loss ratio barely reaches 1 to 10 (the Kursk pocket).

Quote: English tarantass

What is the number of forces involved?

The GDP told you it was “around 600 thousand.”

Quote: English tarantass

Including, of course, those who “will not be sent to the SVO zone,” but in fact were transferred to the western borders as a de facto defense.

This is a military and state secret. I can only assume that the number of the Ground Forces alone is within 1,5 - 2 million. Not counting the Airborne Forces and the Marine Corps of the Navy (their numbers have been approximately doubled), the Aerospace Forces, the Navy, the Strategic Missile Forces and especially the Russian Guard, whose numbers have also grown from 350 thousand (before the Air Defense Forces) to approximately 750 thousand.

Quote: English tarantass

demanded a mobilization of almost a third of the pre-SVO strength,

Only reservists were mobilized and only once - in the fall of 2022 - 300 thousand. At that time, the RF Armed Forces had a regular strength of 280 thousand. Now the strength of the RF Armed Forces has increased by approximately 5-7 times.

[English tarantas]

We never called ourselves that. Right now - it is already quite possible

Never was and here it is again)

In fact, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been preparing for war with us for 8 years.

Well, they trained as they did. As I understand it, they trained well, but the Ukrainians turned out to be unteachable. And for so many years they have not been able to fundamentally change anything and suffer terrible losses. Some kind of strange training. And the LPR/DPR NM and "they are not there" apparently have not fought against the same Ukrainian Armed Forces for 8 years and have not trained. Who then did the Ukrainian Armed Forces practice on for 8 years, on civilians?
And the Russian Armed Forces, apparently, have been blinking their eyes for 8 years. Do you even look for cause-and-effect relationships in your own statements?

And our losses in relation to the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are approximately 1 to 5. But in some areas of the front, the ratio of losses barely reaches 1 to 10.

Where is the droushka?

Kursk pocket

A pocket? And the fact that this "pocket" is comparable in size to the territory of the offensive in the Donetsk direction does not bother you? Here it is a "pocket", but there, I am sure, there is a full-fledged front.

VVP told you it was "around 600 thousand."

The Russian Armed Forces with limited forces (!)

Absolutely limited.
This is, if anything, the level of the size of coalition forces in Iraq in 91. There

Where did coalitions of the richest and most developed countries in the world fight against small countries?

Iraq didn't have much less.

I can only assume that the number of the Ground Forces alone is within 1,5 - 2 million. Not counting the Airborne Forces and the Marine Corps of the Navy (their numbers have been approximately doubled), the Aerospace Forces, the Navy, the Strategic Missile Forces and especially the Russian National Guard, whose numbers have also grown from 350 thousand (before the Air Defense Forces) to approximately 750 thousand.

Total three million. Is that all? I was just asking about the number of people involved in the SVO. Do you even have any idea what kind of force that is? What's stopping you then from selecting a reserve and conducting a second offensive from Belarus? If, as you claim, everything there has long been destroyed and there's no one to fight.

At that time, the RF Armed Forces had a staff strength of 280 thousand.

Before the SVO, all open sources reported at least twice as much.

The war continues, we are moving towards the Goal. The Goal is Victory. And the complete, final closure of the b/u issue in the Northern Black Sea region.

What exactly do you mean by victory? A holiday like May 9? Or some more specific tasks? Have the so-called strategic goals already been achieved or will they be? There is and "will be" are different things. One exists and the other does not.

and they didn't start a real offensive

Tell that to the guys on the front line. To those who stormed Bakhmut. To those who have been pushing towards Kharkov for half a year now, who have been advancing on Kupyansk for months, advancing on all sections from Belgorod to the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant.
Right now we are on the offensive. Right now we are pushing the enemy back along its entire length. You have easily crossed out all the work and lives that held the front for three years, wore down the Ukrainian Armed Forces, repaired and restored equipment, treated the wounded and assembled missiles and shells. For you, this may be an empty phrase, it is not enough, Kyiv has not been taken yet and you are not satisfied, "this is not an offensive", really, such nonsense, just some tens and hundreds of names of populated areas, kilometers of territory that have been plowed up and tightly mined all this time.
And you might as well say that all this "had no strategic significance." Although that's essentially what you said

While "local battles" for "forester's huts" are going on

[bayard]

Quote: English tarantass

Never been and here again

This is how they think in the USA. And what about you in England?

Quote: English tarantass

As I understand it, they taught well, but the Ukrainians turned out to be unteachable. And for so many years they have not been able to fundamentally change anything and they are suffering terrible losses.

The losses are terrible, they fight stubbornly, they were prepared well\long\thoroughly. We are fighting with a mirror - with the same Russians, but reprogrammed by the enemy.

Quote: English tarantass

Do you even look for cause and effect relationships in your own statements?

Don't be rude Tarantas, turn on your brain and everything will work out.

Quote: English tarantass

Where is the droushka?

From American, German, French and English generals and senior officers of NATO headquarters in Ukraine, of course after the "business trip" - they chatter. And Arestovich names the same ratios, he is no longer embarrassed. And other Sumerian commanders and military men - name the same ratio of losses.

Quote: English tarantass

A pocket? And the fact that this "pocket" is comparable in size to the territory of the offensive in the Donetsk direction doesn't bother you?

Well, Big Pocket - will that be okay?
If there was a cauldron, they would press from the flanks and try to slam the lid shut. But this is precisely the pocket where they are pulling in more and more reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces for disposal. This is much more effective and convenient than storming the strongholds head-on. The entire pocket is shot through, UAVs, aviation, artillery are working. They are in no hurry to crush, destroy (the pocket itself), squeeze out there - everything is working very effectively anyway - it is pulling in the best reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and successfully disposing of them.

Quote: English tarantass

Absolutely limited.
This is, if anything, the level of the size of coalition forces in Iraq in 91. There

Ukraine is much larger territorially, in military potential and even in population at the beginning of the conflict. And we are not fighting a coalition, we are fighting against a coalition.

[English tarantas]

How are things in England?

The British are content with the SAS, are proud of the submarines and tactfully keep silent about the level of supplies and weapons of everything else.

The losses are terrible, they fight stubbornly, they were prepared well/long/thoroughly.

And they did not achieve anything significant. Maybe they did not train so massively and seriously? Separate units and divisions, indeed, trained officers and some personnel with the help of foreign specialists, and these units in the SVO demonstrated high efficiency, delivering the most effective strikes and holding the most difficult directions. But there was no talk of any preparation for a full-scale war. The Ukrainian Armed Forces were strengthened, and some servicemen were put through the experience of combat operations, although not so serious and relevant. But the successes of individual units and divisions cannot be called abstractly and generally "they were taught to fight Russia."
On our side there were also separate units with high efficiency, and they were concentrated in the southern directions. They captured a lot, ground up large forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, first of all those very combat-ready Ukrainian ones, and did not give up what they captured, they disrupted the counter-offensive. The Russian army achieved much greater success on the battlefield.
"Good, thorough" - these are all value judgments and need to be compared. And here the Ukrainian Armed Forces clearly did not prepare very well. There was no money. Or they did not look for it. Perhaps this was the plan at the beginning of the SVO.

We are fighting with a mirror - with the same Russians, but reprogrammed by the enemy

Again, abstract metaphysical constructions fight and stamp out shells instead of people. And it is not soldiers running over the battlefield, but Russian spirits.
If "ours" were all there, they would have surrendered long ago. Those who wanted to, surrendered and met our troops. But as we see, there were too many who decided to resist, at least there were. Ukrainians do not surrender en masse in whole units; the first and full mobilization took place almost voluntarily.
Obviously, they didn't come from their own side. It's understandable, they've been pouring so much dirt on us since the 80s. And the "firmware" is as real as it gets, propaganda creates real people with real views, upbringing and worldview and is very difficult to change. Look at the average ages of those who are for Ukraine and those who are for Russia.

Don't be rude Tarantas, turn on your brain and everything will work out.

I turned on my brain and I have questions for you. This is the result of thinking. I am not being rude, but trying to understand and do not see the logic in your judgments and statements. Will you be offended or will you try to explain to me factually, and not say that my brain is "turned off"? Who else is being rude)

chatting

Are these your sources? Rumors and gossip? Unsubstantiated statements from people interested in promoting certain opinions?
Refugees from North Korea also sometimes "chat", but in reality it turns out to be nonsense, in order to sell a horror story.
No reports, no publication of documents or official statements referring to them. "They chatter." "They say." "Arestovich named."

Well, Big Pocket - will that be okay?

The main thing is to leave frivolity and understatement behind.
The protrusion - won't do? And the size is not implied, and the shape, and the color is neutral, just a statement of fact, there is an unnatural protrusion in the front.
For some people, their entire life passes within this "pocket". What about Kursk Shire, or Kursk Bag End?

If there was a cauldron, they would press from the flanks and try to slam the lid shut.

That's how they put pressure on the flanks. And flanking attacks imply an attack, including in the central direction, otherwise it makes no sense. If flanking attacks are successful, their development can lead to a "cauldron", which is unlikely in the conditions of the Kursk salient. But in any case, successful attacks lead to the "shrinking" of the salients in order to prevent a "cauldron". No one eliminates salients with attacks in one direction, flanking attacks are always mandatory, this is the basis, this is facilitated by the very nature of the phenomenon of a salient in the front as such. I don't even know where you remembered about the "cauldron". But by the way, I developed your thought in order to better understand the appropriateness of this term.

And this is precisely the pocket where new reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are being pulled in for disposal.

Who is still dragging whom? The prospects for an offensive in Kursk have been zero since mid-August. We need Kursk more than they do. And offensive operations require more resources than defensive ones, which can obviously retreat. We have nowhere to retreat, and leaving Kursk land to the enemy is unacceptable.

They are in no hurry to squeeze out there - everything is already working very effectively - drawing away the best reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and successfully utilizing them.

Of course they are not in a hurry, what is there to hurry about? To liberate the Russian land. To whom did it surrender?
Maybe it's not as simple as it seems? Or is it easier to come up with a simpler explanation for the slow liquidation of the salient? Like, it's profitable and you don't understand. Or maybe, after all, the best reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which you named, are not such a simple enemy as it seems and their stubborn resistance, maybe even at the cost of high losses, explains the "slowness"? But you have everything at once. And their reserves are the best, and their losses are high, and at the same time the slow pace of the counteroffensive is intended this way. After all, if the enemy suffers defeats, wouldn't it be wiser to speed up the pace, if possible? And if it's impossible, then it turns out that the enemy is defending diligently. And if ours are in no hurry to attack even after smashing the enemy's best forces, then will the enemy suffer so many losses and send in the best reserves? It turns out that our enemies are being utilized with high efficiency, but they are in no hurry to occupy their positions.
It's illogical, either it should be this or the other. And you say that I'm being rude.

Ukraine is much larger territorially

No, not much. And the number of forces is never calculated for an operation based on the principle: man per square meter. Where do you get all this nonsense about total occupation? From a movie about the Great Patriotic War? Well, all wars are very different, but more on that below.

Ukraine is much larger territorially, in military potential and even in population at the beginning of the conflict.

Where did coalitions of the richest and most developed countries in the world fight against small countries?
The Russian Armed Forces, with limited forces (!), have been fighting for the third year against the largest coalition of Western countries on the territory of the former Soviet Union

And there were also different rates of advance and war periods. You were told about the similarities, and you immediately remembered the different conditions. At first it was comparable, and now it is incomparable. Maybe it really is not worth comparing the incomparable?

And we are not fighting as a coalition, we are fighting against a coalition.

The main thing is to repeat what I have already answered)
Of course, we don't have a coalition. No supplies, no purchases, no foreign guests and weapons with equipment. Ukraine gets almost everything, and we get the missing parts. But as I already said, comparing completely different wars directly is wrong.

Just yesterday we didn't have these reserves, last year you wondered if we would hold the southern front, if there would be enough ammunition, reserves

I didn’t guess anything at all, I just observed the events and didn’t write about it on VO, even guessing or predicting anything, only comments after the fact.
Why did you start to invent my opinion and point of view, and even more so in retrospect, I understand, but I will not write...

[English tarantas]

You claim that everything there has already been destroyed long ago and there is no one left to fight.

You are the one talking nonsense.

Mobilization (albeit extremely wild) is underway there, meat is being brought in from abroad, supplies are still sufficient to hold on. They are holding on, but they are losing territory and people.

According to Arestovich, in just under 3 years, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have lost 200 and over 1 million people who died from wounds in hospitals. Another million are crippled and disabled after serious wounds. And about 200-300 thousand deserters. According to him, there are currently 700 thousand in service. And mobilization no longer covers the losses.

that today in the Ukrainian Armed Forces 70% are forcibly mobilized, and the breaking point is 80% (although Arestovich spoke about 80-90% - the breaking point)

Now there are 600 thousand in the SVO alone.

So you are writing that at any moment everything will collapse there. And the call is barely going, its quality is terrible, and it is about to hit rock bottom. After reaching the limit, as I understand it, there will be mass capitulation?
But it is precisely these forces that somehow, at the very limit, do not allow the front to collapse anywhere! For some reason, the front has to be pressed in all directions, inflicting terrible losses on the enemy, which, for some reason, have not yet completely demoralized him, although there has been a forced draft, a shortage of conscripts, heavy losses and mass desertion among the Ukrainian Armed Forces for a very long time. I have been hearing about this for two years.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are hanging by a thread just now. That's right. Although nothing has changed there fundamentally for two years now and we only started to attack now. The arguments are the same, the conditions are the same, but the changes have only started now. So maybe the reasons for the successful attacks right now are different? Not the same ones that I've been hearing for two years now?

That is why they started talking in Euro-NATO that they need to prepare to bring NATO rabble there - Poles, Romanians and other Germans.

They've been talking for three years, and you've only just heard it?
And for the same three years, VVP has been threatening them with Kuzka's mother, which is why all initiatives are being curtailed. The argument will not cease to be weighty. VVP is not going to stop assuring them of his readiness to apply it, at least he regularly states so.

when the enemy army has capitulated or been destroyed, the objectives of the war are achieved and the territory is completely controlled

Are you aware that the tasks can be solved without a complete occupation and defeat of the army? And are you aware of what goals were named for the SVO? Was there somewhere talk about the occupation of the whole of Ukraine? About the destruction of the army? You'll blabber on for an article.

I have a friend there in the assaults

I see them regularly.

I know many of them

Well, tell them that they are fighting. for trailers and this is not an offensive. And there is no strategic goal, all-out offensive, on all fronts, does not carry. And everything that was before This offensive also did not lead to significant successes of the entire operation. You do not see the current events as strategic, and there are no strategic successes beyond operational successes, and it does not bring them any closer to their goals. And their efforts do not lead to the defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, although the Ukrainian Armed Forces are already on the brink. And the current offensive does not lead to the liberation of Russian territories.
I don't have the conscience to devalue the sweat and blood of my friends. But you apparently have it.
You name many successes and achievements, but they are completely incomprehensible to me. The successful opposition of an entire coalition and the losses of the enemy and his difficult situation, some kind of occupation of the entire territory. You put them higher than what people are directly fighting for. Do you see something tangible, something truly significant and real?
My friends and acquaintances fought to live in Russia, without war, without European integration and so on. But how many enemies will die, by what percentage will their economy sag and how much foam will pour out on the "collective West" is secondary for them.
They are fighting for Russia, for every meter of it. What are your comrades fighting for if it is not important to them, I do not understand. Or you have very good friends who tolerate such an opinion of yours about their works. That is the impression I get.

Tarantass, I'll tear your ears off!! For rudeness. I said what I said - if there is not enough intelligence or conscience to comprehend what you read, the problem is with the one who experiences such a deficit.

I told you what I saw in your words. I have already seen and heard the same devaluation of successes. Only there they justify defeats, and you deny successes with this. I don't know which is worse. If looking in the mirror causes you so many negative emotions - think about it.

[bayard]

Tarantas, are you hysterical? Emotional breakdown? Or emotional burnout? What is it? Are you tired of the war that has been going on for almost 3 years?
And for me this war has been going on for almost 11 years. And soon it will be 10 years since I returned from captivity. I buried friends when you weren’t even thinking about war. Especially not about one like this. And we knew that this is exactly what would happen. And I remember Dima Utkin’s words that the Third World War was already underway, said in the spring of 2015, although we knew about it a year earlier.
Are you tired ?
Everyone is tired.
And those who are fighting are tired. Especially those who have been fighting since 2014.
It's only been a few days since shells stopped reaching Donetsk. And not so long ago I heard small arms fire almost from the center of Donetsk. The audibility is especially good at night.
And it still flies to Gorlovka. And I have a friend who is still fighting there, although he is well over 60.
And another one, who is almost young enough to be my son, was in the Ocheretin direction, in assaults. Also since 2014, he took Mariupol. His group was the first to enter the city and paved the way for the battalion. Entering the city under enemy fire, dashing, through open spaces and right up until entering the city, not a single wounded (a group of about 40 people). Experience. Losses began already in urban battles. Later, the rest began to enter after them, the marines pulled up - Struna's group, then they went on together. There is a song by the singer Yuta "Struna", in that video the work of my friend's group and Struna's marines. He is there too. After the end of the battles, they had a little more than 30 people left in the battalion. Struna is now a Hero of Russia, but his friend wasn't even given a medal for Mariupol, nor were his guys - a different jurisdiction, not Russia yet. Wounds, concussions (more than one) and again in assaults.
I will neither reassure you nor give you hope. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, do not concentrate on the bad.

[bayard]

Quote: English tarantass

Total three million. Is that all?

I didn't count, I don't know how much there is "in total" now. At the beginning of the Central Military District, the total number of the Russian Armed Forces was about 2 million. Now there are 600 thousand in the Central Military District alone. Plus, new armies, corps, divisions, air regiments, two new military districts have been deployed, the border with Finland needs to be strengthened, the Kaliningrad group has been strengthened, reserves are being formed/trained/armed/coordinated. It is possible that there are slightly fewer civilian personnel and outsourcing. Therefore, in fact, the Russian Armed Forces are now probably the largest in the world, especially in their land component.

Quote: English tarantass

What then prevents us from selecting reserves and conducting a second offensive from Belarus?

Just yesterday we didn't have these reserves, last year you were wondering if we would hold the southern front, if there would be enough ammunition, reserves. Then we were still fighting in the minority. This year we are fighting with approximate parity in personnel per LBS, and everything has gone much better.

Quote: English tarantass

You claim that everything there has already been destroyed long ago and there is no one left to fight.

You are talking nonsense. Mobilization (even if extremely wild) is underway there, meat is being brought in from abroad, supplies are still sufficient to hold out. And they are holding out, but they are losing territory and people. I wrote (and this is also from Arestovich) that today 70% of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are forcibly mobilized, and the breaking point is 80% (although Arestovich spoke about 80-90% - the breaking point), so according to their former propagandist, there is very little left until their breaking point, because they are being replenished only with forcibly mobilized people. And losses are high. That is why they started talking in Euro-NATO that they need to prepare to bring in NATO rabble there - Poles, Romanians and other Germans.

Quote: English tarantass

At that time, the RF Armed Forces had a staff strength of 280 thousand.
Before the SVO, all open sources reported at least twice as much.

Study the subject, raise the staffing table of numbers by branches of the armed forces, this was previously in the public domain. 280 thousand is the total number of the Ground Forces of the RF Armed Forces before the Central Military District. In comparison, the Russian National Guard had 350 thousand. The Small Army of the RF practically did not have a Ground Army. Now it already does. So previously there was simply nothing/nobody to fight such a conflict. And a full-fledged Army will not appear from scratch - it had to be created. And this is time, money, personnel and a lot of Labor.

Quote: English tarantass

What exactly do you mean by victory?

When the enemy army has capitulated or been destroyed, the objectives of the war are achieved and the territory is completely controlled.

Quote: English tarantass

Tell that to the boys on the front lines.

I see them regularly, I meet them, I have friends who are still fighting, and the war is not far from me, I can practically just hear it. But lately it has become further and further.

Quote: English tarantass

Now we are pushing back the enemy along its entire length.

We are pressing, and precisely along the entire length, not allowing reserves to maneuver. But the goal of this "pressure" is not deep breakthroughs and strategic operations, but pushing the LBS away from the Donetsk agglomeration, so that artillery shells do not reach. It seems that they no longer reach, but a week ago - it was. The air defense copes quite well with the rest of what flies.

Quote: English tarantass

You have easily crossed out all the work and lives that were spent holding the front for three years, grinding down the Ukrainian Armed Forces, repairing and restoring equipment, treating the wounded, and assembling rockets and shells.

I know many of them, and those who treat them, and how they restore equipment. I have been in Donetsk since 2014.

Quote: English tarantass

Kyiv hasn't been taken yet and you're not satisfied with "this isn't an offensive", really, what nonsense

I am talking about a strategic offensive - to solve strategic problems. Everything that has happened and is happening this year is at the tactical and operational-tactical level, so the tasks set and solved are of a maximum operational-tactical nature.

Quote: English tarantass

And you might as well say that all this "had no strategic significance." Although that's essentially what you said

Tarantass, I'll tear your ears off!! For rudeness. I said what I said - if there is not enough intelligence or conscience to comprehend what you read, the problem is with the one who experiences such a deficit.

Quote: English tarantass

While "local battles" for "forester's huts" are going on

I have a friend there in the assaults - at the very forefront.

[bayard]

Quote: English tarantass

And, remind me, what declared strategic goals were achieved?

The war continues, we are moving towards the Goal. The Goal is Victory. And the complete, final closure of the b/u issue in the Northern Black Sea region.

Quote: English tarantass

Everything could very well turn into a continuation of the positional deadlock,

We are still practically in "strategic defense" and have not yet begun a real offensive. For now. For now, "local battles" are going on for the "forester's huts". But we are taking these "huts", more energetically and more often every day. And the offensive is still ahead.

Quote: English tarantass

You know Arestovich's integrity and still consider it appropriate and decent to refer to him

I know... the integrity of this character. But at the same time I consider him a very informed and professional source. And I also know that he is currently in touch with some people from Trump's team in the US. So I think that right now some of his figures can be trusted. In addition, they roughly correspond to other sources of their Ministry of Defense and the intelligence community of Germany, England, France and the US - they are chattering. The figures also conflict with the calculations of losses in the former itself by a number of independent research groups on this issue. So I am not surprised. The losses of the Russian Federation may be somewhat overstated or simply inaccurate (since these are assumptions), but the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces - albeit estimated, are statistics.
By the way, no one in Russia has ever named such figures for losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. These are exclusively Western and specifically Ukrainian sources.

Quote: English tarantass

What exactly about Armata do you personally not like?

Personally, for me... everything. If you evaluate it as a whole, then everything.
Too expensive. Too much novelty factor, which will come out in the open during operation, firepower that has hardly changed compared to other MBTs.
A tank is a consumable of war. There should be a LOT of them, they should be mass produced, mastered, serviced and repaired - simply, quickly, in field conditions. Repairability and interchangeability of repair kits. And their loss should not become a financial tragedy. So as a concept with a reserve for the future - for a new tank with a larger gun ... which would justify such a large chassis and a high price.

[English tarantas]

Too expensive

Yes, it seems not fundamentally more expensive than T-90M. Considering the increase in characteristics, it is generally justified. It will never be cheaper, the better, the more expensive.

Too high novelty factor

Is that bad? The new fire control system and, in general, total digitalization will allow the machine to be used much more efficiently and intensively. It is definitely easier to fight in a comfortable cabin with controls a la a computer game than to pull levers, twist your back into a Z and swallow fuel oil. By this logic, the infantry does not need collimator sights, nor a light, warm and comfortable winter uniform to replace the Soviet wooden fur coat, nor tactical boots, nor the same quadcopters. We must fight like our grandfathers. In bast shoes and on whatnot. Why did they replace the T-54 with the T-72 at the time, the "novelty factor" there is also simply space, and everyone had to be retrained. The Armata works on new physical principles, this is not taught in technical schools anywhere.

Firepower remains virtually unchanged compared to other MBTs

Is it necessary? No one is changing it, there is enough for everyone. And if anything, there is a design reserve of 152 mm left. Well, they will have to make a Terminator based on the Armata in pairs. To compensate for the gaps in fire impact.

Tank - a consumable of war

Will we fight with meat? You, yes, as a "consumable". Maybe we will try to make a qualitatively new weapon, superior to the enemy's weapon? Quality turns into quantity and a competently used weapon will allow you not even to engage in combat and not to be subjected to blows. An example are the same blitzkriegs of the Wehrmacht or the blitzkrieg of the Storm in the Desert. A qualitative advantage in performance characteristics allowed to defeat the enemy with minimal losses. But you are only impressed by numbers in reference books, apparently.

must be mass produced, mastered, serviced and repaired - simply, quickly, in field conditions

Am I right in understanding that Armata was made on the principle of a "cuckoo clock"? They never heard of technology and ease of maintenance. They were probably idiots.

And their loss should not become a financial tragedy.

Apparently the loss of the T-90 doesn't hit your pockets?

what would justify such a large chassis and high price

There's nothing to justify the high price of the Armata. It's a T-90 in a new wrapper...
There is no APS, no DZ, no other means of protection and survivability enhancement, no revolutionary layout. It just looks like they are made of gold.

[bayard]

Quote: English tarantass

Yes, it doesn’t seem to be fundamentally more expensive than the T-90M.

Fundamentally - more expensive. But not only in purchasing, but in maintenance, repair, the need to accumulate spare parts and consumables, a completely different crew training program, difficulties with repairs in field conditions. All this combination, each of the points of which seems tolerable and even acceptable, together give such a synergy that the tank becomes not even gold - platinum.

Quote: English tarantass

It will never be cheaper, the better, the more expensive.

And all this just for the sake of novelty and fashion? An expensive and difficult to maintain tank will never become widespread, it will be impossible to put a reservist who served on a T-72 or T-80 in it, and the deputy for logistics will simply hang themselves from all the difficulties that have fallen on their heads. And it would be okay if there was an increase in combat capabilities, but the calculations made showed that the increase in combat capabilities of the T-14 is only 15% compared to the T-90M. And the T-90M has an increase in combat capabilities of only 10% compared to the T-72B3M. Now compare the cost (and not the stated one for the press, but the real one, which was also written about at one time) of the T-14 and T-90M - the difference is 1,5 - 2 times in procurement and multiple - in operation. And then compare it with the cost of upgrading the T-72B to the T-72B3M, or the T-80BV to the magnificent T-80BVM. That's why we're upgrading all the T-72Bs and T-80BVs, because their upgrade is about 4-5 times cheaper than a new T-14. And their real combat value is only 25% lower. As a result, two T-72B3Ms have a combat effectiveness of 1,5 compared to 1,0 for the T-14, and four T-72B3Ms have a combat effectiveness of 3,0 compared to 1,0 for the T-14 for the same money. And in war, it's always more useful to have 4 tanks instead of one new one. Especially if these 4 tanks are equivalent in combat to THREE new-model tanks. It's not only and not so much about economics, it's a question of quickly saturating the Army with high-quality armored vehicles.

Quote: English tarantass

Too high novelty factor
Is that bad?

When the novelty coefficient is above 15%, it is BAD. When it goes over 50%, it is VERY bad. Look at the history of the T-64, that's what it was. And that's what it remains.

Quote: English tarantass

The new QMS and, in general, total digitalization,

Yeah. The "blank" hit the tank, and digitalization ended, even if the armor didn't burst. And three gavriks will sit in a highly protected capsule, unable to turn the turret or even look around. When introducing any innovation, Balance is needed. And thorough testing for reliability, usefulness, survivability and justification. Now they have produced about 20 T-14s, so they are driving them around all the training grounds with the development of all variants of combat use and all possible troubles. But the troops do not need such tanks. For now - for sure.
And they are not needed with such a gun. All our MBTs run with such a caliber. On a six-wheel chassis.
Now the restart of the T-80 in production is a completely different matter. One can only applaud the common sense and insight into the root, the comprehensive solution to the problems.

Quote: English tarantass

It is definitely easier to fight in a comfortable cabin

The T-90M has a welded turret, which is much more comfortable. The new T-80 modification will also have something similar.

Quote: English tarantass

at one time they replaced the T-54 with the T-72, there too the "coefficient of novelty" was simply out of this world,

There was no such space there. AZ - yes, it was new, but you get used to good things quickly. Chassis - on the T-55\62 base. The same rollers, but support rollers appeared, the track stopped playing, the tank stopped taking off its shoes at high speed, the speed increased - at Biathlon, look - it accelerates to 80 km\h. And the engine is basically the same B-2, only forced. So the novelty factor, although decent, but the main thing remained familiar. NOT SO WITH THE T-14. The engine alone is worth something. Not to mention the rest.
Let them run concepts in a couple of companies or a battalion set, note the pros, notice the cons.

[English tarantas]

Sorry, but this is ridiculous, I won’t even analyze such nonsense, you are wrong even by the sentence and you understand absolutely nothing about technology or weapons.
All the best.

[Jimenez]

1. Boreas exist. 2. Poseidon IMHO is PR. 3. Based on the experience of the SVO, we will see Armata exclusively at the parade on May 9.

[BAI]

These are MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21 and their Chinese copies.

What kind of reliability potential was built into the planes that are still in service?

[Soldatov V.]

First, we need to saturate our Air Force with Su-57.
Another question is to whom we can sell the SU-57 without disclosing secret technologies and reselling them to our enemies.
Here is Algeria on the first list. Will it be our ally in a world war, or at least neutral? The T-72 story is ruining all our relations with Algeria.
India? What a country with a mind of its own. With a population of one and a half billion, the entire developing country is in itself.
Vietnam? What does she think when China and I kiss passionately?
Indonesia is an even more incomprehensible country.
North Korea? Yes, it is kind of on our side now, but they are waiting for us to become a socialist country. Even our fighters in Ukraine are increasingly raising red flags over liberated areas.

[Hexenmeister]

Another question is to whom we can sell the SU-57 without disclosing secret technologies and reselling them to our enemies.

Well, when we ourselves have "plenty" of Su-57s, and something new to replace it will be flying at full speed, at least in experimental form, then we can think about it, but now it's still too early!

[kit88]

India... acquired the MiG-29 in 1982

This is not entirely true. In 1982, the first MiG-29s were received by the Soviet Air Force.
India later.

In 1984, a preliminary agreement was signed to supply MiG-29s to India.
The first contract for 42 single-seat MiG-29s (9-12B) and four two-seat MiG-29UB trainers was signed in September 1986. They were delivered by sea and then assembled at an airbase near Pune. The first MiG-29s were flown there in mid-1987.

[Polyssenator]

Author, please edit the text. There is no aircraft factory in Vladivostok

[kor1vet1974]

Eeeeh, they could have moved some production to the DPRK, there are specialists (engineers, workers), far from stupid, "if they had a diagram or a drawing, they would have started the swirl" (c). And look, with time, machine tool building and other things would have appeared in Russia. I understand the dreams.. but South Korea started with this

[foxes]

All this talk about export sounds wild to me, against the backdrop of homeopathic deliveries of this aircraft to the Russian Air Force, against the backdrop of the current international situation and especially on Russia's western borders. We now have a completely microscopic Air Force for such a huge territory and with such neighbors. And in the state, everyone thinks about money and export.

[Graz]

but will there be enough capacity for serial production of the Su-57? that is the question

[Knell wardenheart]

I'll start with:

Since the early 2000s, the country has been unable to acquire new Russian fighter jets due to the UN Security Council's arms embargo.

The UN Security Council has so firmly and ineradicably cowed us that there will be no Su-57s for North Korea. We may sell them technologies, perhaps materials, but we have a very persistent and hardened line that we should play the big boy at the table with other big boys. And they are all in ties and jackets, so we will be too, figuratively speaking. We have a panic fear that we will somehow be squeezed out of the UN, specifically from the Security Council, under one pretext or another.

Let's be honest - there is no queue of people wishing to buy the Su-57 for several reasons, and one of the first is that there is still significant uncertainty in the near future for our country and its production. I have just said this in the mildest possible terms. To put it more harshly - there is a non-zero probability that we will be strangled by sanctions, we will not resolve all import substitution issues at the organizational level, some internal crises will occur or external crises will worsen. There is no end in sight to the current conflict and any buyer with a plan takes all this into account in their vision of whether or not to buy and generally get involved with us in long-term contracts.

The second point is pressure from abroad on the buyer country. Those who can hold it, as a rule, are not particularly rich.

The third point - I will say frankly, the Su-57 does not really "tread" within the framework of the current conflict. Its extremely episodic participation is still extremely episodic and is covered minimally. That is, the current conflict does not advertise the aircraft, no matter how cynical it may sound. And potential buyers will have a question - why do they need an aircraft that does not demonstrate its advanced efficiency and radical use in a conflict that is very saturated with air defense systems?

The fourth point - now there is a certain revolution in military affairs (including the example of the current conflict), connected with the fact that a number of aviation tasks have been taken over by UAVs of different types, and at the same time, air defense shows a significant danger, and at the same time, some of the aviation tasks are taken over by guided missiles and artillery. Bombs with UMPK can be used by more "old" aircraft, their radius is significantly less than that required for "stealth". Buying countries are studying these trends in order not to buy weapons with unnecessary characteristics or weapons that are conceptually yesterday's.

P/s I believe that the "mystery shopper" is the PRC, which has a long and "glorious" tradition of buying our products in small portions for study and copy-paste.

[Glagol1]

Well, you can also think about Iran, everything is outdated there, almost like in the DPRK. But no one has cancelled the Su-35E, and I think that the DPRK, Indonesia and Iran will choose it. An inexpensive machine, with great capabilities. India, Algeria and Vietnam would be better off with the Su-57, because neighbors with unfriendly thoughts already have the 5th generation or 4+.
Türkiye definitely not, they already regretted the S-400, not in technical terms, but because of the striped sanctions.

[Maks1995]

Another... about nothing?
Info about "someone is about to buy or has already ordered" SU 57 - has been running for 7 years already.
Since the VVP said "I can sell" to the killer of our pilots.

But for now... "victory".
There are few planes, they have already been modernized twice, despite the fact that they are produced in small quantities...
So, to sell it to someone in large quantities...? Oh, I doubt it. There is just no mass production yet.
Algeria, China - unlikely to buy much (it's clear why)
The rest - too, IMHO, for their own reasons.

[Monster_Fat]

Su-57: No queue, but only for now

In fact: "bye-bye (waves hand)"....

[easy]

Let them first saturate their VKS with not 76 aircraft, but at least 200-250. Otherwise, with such spaces, their number is insignificant. No matter how good the aircraft is, the number plays a very big role. And this must be done before 2030.

[velikoros-xnumx]

I didn't see Iran in the potential top five contenders. In my opinion, it is more likely as a buyer than Indonesia or Vietnam.

[bear cub]

Another article to please the hearts. Given the pace and capabilities of Su-57 production (it's hard to call it production, it's hand-made), we may not live to see the fulfillment of a larger order. Any other country's order for a squadron of Su-57s will end the year the US retires the F-35 as obsolete.

[Avarron]

The principle is "Here you go, God, what we don't need." The point is that people donated to the church what they themselves didn't need in their households.

[spektr9]

According to the South Korean publication Military Watch Magazine, which has not been noted for any particular sympathy towards us for quite understandable political reasons

Roma, my dear, I decided to type your magazine into the search box on this site and here it is -

The MiG-31BM fighters used by Russia during the special operation in Ukraine have shown their high efficiency, Military Watch Magazine writes.

Kiev announced the creation of an entire fleet of maritime drones, with the help of which it plans to “liberate” the Black Sea from Russian ships, but the Russian military has found an effective means of combating unmanned boats of the Ukrainian Navy. Military Watch Magazine writes about this.

An editorial in the American Military Watch Magazine (MWM) notes that the guided missiles of this ATGM are destroying Western armored vehicles en masse, including German Leopard 2 tanks and the previously considered invulnerable British Challenger 2 MBTs, regardless of the level of armor protection, including dynamic armor.

Representatives of the Russian state corporation Rostec, commenting on the publication in the American Military Watch Magazine, emphasized that at present there are no effective means of protecting against missile strikes from the Iskander operational-tactical complex.

The launch of the newest Russian anti-aircraft missile system S-500 into serial production will be a breakthrough for Russia, writes Military Watch Magazine

I just have big doubts that this is a Western edition....

[anclevalico]

As I understand it, the Russian Aerospace Forces are already fully saturated and can be exported.