The time of "red lines" is over. The pencil is out. We are disrupting the West's plans

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The time of "red lines" is over. The pencil is out. We are disrupting the West's plans

Somehow Zelensky is not getting along with plans. That's when "Quarter 95" came back to haunt the president's office. It's one thing to write a plan for playing the piano with your genitals, and another to write a plan for improving the lives of the people in the state. Although who needs these people? Poor, embittered, hungry, living off their last stash.

Another matter is the "fat" Europeans. There is still a lot of "cutting and cutting". Let's go to the EU and NATO! But for now the Europeans manage to somehow "postpone" the entry of the independents into their family. Fortunately, the poor "refugees" in Ferraris and Maybachs showed Europe Kuz'kina mat, or rather, Kuz'kina mati. Now even the most compassionate Europeans dream of driving these refugees back to Ukraine.



If you follow the development of planned activities on Bankova, you get an interesting picture. From "let's return Ukrainian territories, including Kuban, Bryansk, Kursk" to "defend the country to the last"... We have somehow gotten used to reading only the titles of these "plans". Reading and, excuse me, making fun of Zelensky. "What a fool, he lives in his own world" and so on.

At the same time, any reader, speaking about Zelensky's independence, will quite reasonably say that the Ukrainian under-president is a puppet in the hands of the West. This means that he cannot even write such pretentious plans on his own. Everything must be agreed upon with the masters. And the fact that the people working in the West are far from being whipping boys, I hope, is also clear.

Another nuance. We laughed at the plans, some public figures in the West laughed at the plans, but they did not laugh in Ukraine. Moreover, they believed these plans. And they believe them now. Simply because Zelensky's plans are the voiced dreams of Ukrainians fooled by the media. They heard what they wanted to hear. When there is hopelessness all around, you want to believe that everything will change soon...

A little bit about Kursk region


Now about something else, which has little to do with the plans. Many continue to ask questions about why we have been conducting the ATO there for so long. At the same time, we read and watch videos every day about the destroyed militants and equipment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The enemy's losses in the Kursk region are several times greater than the losses in other parts of the front. Why is this happening?

Why, knowing full well that the adventure with the attack on the Kursk NPP has failed, does Zelensky continue to stubbornly send his most trained units to the slaughter? At the same time, he “hides” a fairly large amount of equipment and weapons, maintaining units in Donbas and Zaporozhye in a minimal mode…

In one of the materials I already mentioned the tasks of our units in the Kursk region. The President quite a long time ago directly spoke about what should be done in the Kursk region.Terrorists must be destroyed!" Not driven out of our territories, but rather destroyed. Precisely because they are the "elite", that is, ideological enemies of Russia.

Literally from the latest. About how our group destroyed the Ukrainian one, trapped in a "classic cauldron" in the Olgovskaya grove. In general, such "cauldrons" are not typical for modern warfare. This is more of a relic of the Second World War. Changes in combat tactics and increased logistics capabilities for encircled units make large "cauldrons" quite "costly" in every sense of the word.

Few knew what our Marines were preparing. But about a month ago, the Supreme Commander mentioned in his statement that the 155th Brigade "acted quite boldly and heroically", when it broke through the defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces 10 km from the state border. It was then that it became clear that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were being driven into a "cauldron". Specifically the elite. And the Marines do not intend to let them out.

Few probably noticed that the "cauldron" was very similar in appearance to the "pocket", also a classic method of destroying an encircled enemy. The 155th again used "old practices", which, nevertheless, worked perfectly. I do not know who the author of the use of the "pocket" idea, when the enemy is supposedly left a path for escape, but many mothers and wives should be grateful to him or them for the lives and health of their sons and husbands.

Why was the "pocket" needed? To avoid the "cornered cat" effect. What would have happened if the "ideological" ones did not see a way out of the situation? Defense to the last. Surrendering to the punishers is not at all convenient. There is too much blood on their hands. And that means losses on both sides.

The pocket, the very same “road of life” leading to Bandera, gave at least some chance of survival. An illusory chance, but a chance. And the terrorists took advantage of it. On the morning of November 17, the enemy in groups of 15-20 people tried to slip out of the “cauldron”. Naturally, the road turned out to be “one way” for 80 militants, plus 40 three-hundredths and 24 prisoners… Quite a decent result.

I have already written that I believe that the group in Kursk Oblast will be finally "disassembled" by the New Year. I think the plans have not changed now. Especially in light of recent events.

Tests that practically thwarted Zelensky's "next plan"


I think it is clear to everyone that the tests of the Oreshnik were conducted right now for a reason. Ukraine began to panic immediately after its strike on the Bryansk and Kursk regions. Western embassies called on their citizens to flee, political scientists and experts began talking about the "day of Russia's wrath"... Only Bankova called for calm. Don't be afraid of anything, we are ready to protect you...

I even got the impression that Zelensky needed more corpses to fuel the image of barbarian killers from Moscow. Incidentally, this is quite in the style of the Ukrainian authorities. To expose their people to bombs and shells. But this is just a slight digression from the topic.

Bankova planned for Russia to strike in its traditional way. Many different missiles, lots of drones on various objects. Destruction of some other objects, but at the same time victorious reports about the work of the Ukrainian Defense. Ukrainians will believe, and what was destroyed... One more object, one less... What's the difference.

The main task is to draw a country, or better yet, NATO countries, into the war. Which is quite possible during the "transition period" in the US and the political crisis in Europe. It is not for nothing that the West suddenly started talking about introducing "peacekeepers" from the European NATO forces to the demarcation line.

They started talking persistently, despite the fact that both President Putin and Minister Lavrov repeatedly emphasized the idea that the SVO will be completed only when the tasks set before the army are completed. And it is vitally important for Kyiv to stop the advance of the Russian army by any means.

Everyone probably watched President Putin's statement. Remember his words about the Russian army's advance in all directions? There are no mere words in such speeches. Every word is always supported by facts. And do you remember the words about the "Oreshnik" itself? I noticed that the Supreme Commander "revealed the performance characteristics" of the system.Flies at a speed of 2,5-3 km per second...».

And the discussion began... What is there to discuss? A speed of 10 Machs? Well, let's shout "Hurray!" The Americans won't catch up with us with their 3 Machs. But how diligently all the experts, especially in the West, ignore another fact that was seen by tens, and maybe hundreds, of millions of people around the world. I'm talking about the shelling itself. The missiles fall on their targets - and then what? And nothing... No explosions... It seems as if a "dummy" has flown in. Then where did all this destruction come from?..

The President summed up his statement perfectly. For those who want to continue to supply weapons and ammunition, and for those who want to participate in the war. We will determine the goals ourselves. The conflict has acquired a global character. Translated into everyday Russian, this will sound simpler. Be afraid, you will have to answer for any abominations against Russia. Not in words. The time for words is over.

The red pencil for drawing "lines" is finished


Finally, the gentlemanly exchange of pleasantries has ended... Once, in the early 60s of the last century, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the world looked into the hell that could happen during the use of nuclear weapons weapons. That was when the era of mutual arms control, mutual trust and some kind of openness began. But people quickly forget the lessons stories.

Now the world is once again standing before the gates of hell. We are on the brink of events that will make what happened during World War II seem like a child's game of war... No one wants war. No matter what politicians say about it. What scares me is that, unlike in the early 60s, there are no political monsters now who are capable of resolving any problem through negotiations. Now, unfortunately, politicians don't give a damn about their countries, their peoples.

They were preparing a pan-European war for us. They tried to kill us with the best weapons that NATO has today. They tried to starve us to death, introducing various sanctions with or without reason. They tried to tear us away from the rest of the world, prohibiting us from performing at festivals, championships, and Olympics. And all because we want to live our own way, as human beings. To be men and women, fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers…

We understand perfectly well what and when they are planning in the West. But the time for drawing red lines has passed. It is not for nothing that the president clearly stated in his address that there will be a response to any provocation. And there will be in any case... I think this is the last warning... Do not meddle in our taiga... The bear is the boss here. Was, is and always will be...
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  1. +48
    25 November 2024 05: 13
    Well, well) the author is a dreamer. There are plenty of red markers. Our "elite" abroad has too much hard-earned wealth. Those who can, do it. And do it right away......
    1. +19
      25 November 2024 08: 14
      Well, well) the author is a dreamer

      I understood who the author was from the title. So everything is fine, no need to be surprised.
      1. +11
        25 November 2024 16: 04
        He and a certain Marzhetsky are inveterate propagandists, they do nothing but harm.
        1. +4
          26 November 2024 00: 19
          And what would we comment on if it weren't for them? We don't have the guts to write articles ourselves, and they might not even be accepted for publication. There is no harm from them. More harm comes from radical commentators: some criticize everyone, while others extol something. For example: the government always does everything right, including refusing boilers. Although in my opinion this is due to a lack of trained troops and equipment.
          1. +5
            27 November 2024 10: 25
            We don't have the guts to write articles ourselves, and they might not even be accepted for publication.

            I'm too lazy to read such an article, it's about nothing, I read a few sentences, skimmed through it, what nonsense.
            1. +3
              27 November 2024 12: 20
              The article is certainly weak. But, in principle, you can comment on anything.
              For example:
              They tried to tear us away from the rest of the world by prohibiting us from performing at festivals, championships, and Olympics.

              So what? Well, we won. And tomorrow I get up for the same job, for the same salary. And the same wife and children. And the same problems that are in no way connected with sports. And what did big-time sports give to the development of the country? Nothing. Did the big bosses just get some PR? Yes, big athletes made some money. But there are still almost no free sports sections for children. Yes, there are more empty expensive sports facilities.
    2. -4
      25 November 2024 08: 28
      Quote: Scipio
      Our "elite" abroad has too much hard-earned wealth.


      The elite that is under sanctions or some other "elite" are you talking about? If you don't know, then the former have had everything taken away/arrested by foreigners a long time ago
      1. +11
        25 November 2024 10: 24
        Quote: MMM-642
        If you don't know, the first ones have had everything taken away/arrested by foreigners a long time ago

        No, I don't know. In my opinion. So far they've only frozen it. And not for everyone. Well, the main question. Where are all the children of these elites of ours? Have they all really returned and sold all their villas there?
        1. 0
          25 November 2024 11: 25
          Quote: Zoer
          Have you sold all your villas there?
          It is technologically impossible to sell a villa of a person who has fallen under sanctions. You can live there in some countries (not all!) - sell/donate/bequeath/exchange - no
          1. +4
            25 November 2024 11: 28
            Quote: your1970
            It is technologically impossible to sell the villa of a person who has been sanctioned.

            No need to take out part of my question. My question was about the CHILDREN of our rulers. About THEIR villas and accounts. Moreover, have sanctions been imposed on all our oligarchs? I am somehow sure that all these senators and State Duma members, with the Kremlin ones, are not the real rulers of the country.
            1. -1
              25 November 2024 11: 42
              Quote: Zoer
              I am somehow sure that all these senators and members of the State Duma, with the Kremlin are not real rulers of the country.

              If you are sure of this, then naturally pawns (not with real rulers) no one will talk, much less lift sanctions against them.
              That's why life there children pawns - what do you think - I'm not deeply interested.
              So you decide - either they are pawns or real.
              1. +3
                25 November 2024 12: 43
                Quote: your1970
                Therefore, the life of the children of pawns there - as you think - is deeply uninteresting.
                So you decide - either they are pawns or real.

                And I didn't talk about the children of pawns. I talked about the children of the ELITE of our country. The ruling gentlemen, if you like. No one has ever imposed sanctions on them. And they live THERE.
                1. -1
                  25 November 2024 14: 33
                  Quote: Zoer

                  And I didn't talk about the children of pawns. I talked about the children of the ELITE of our country. The ruling gentlemen, if you like. No one has ever imposed sanctions on them. And they live THERE.

                  Then the question arises - if the elite "ruling gentlemen" separately from leadership country - why the hell did they need this? How did they allow the "Kremlin" to make things so complicated for them?
                  You do understand that selling conventional gas/oil used to be much easier for them than it is now?
                  The result is a joke - the "pawns" do not allow the "elite" to make peace - which is what they passionately want.

                  Z. Y.
                  I don't know about the children - the wives are definitely under sanctions. I came across a very large article in the Financial Times about sanctions, where it was described - who, how, what is being done, how they froze accounts/real estate/yachts
                  1. +9
                    25 November 2024 14: 58
                    Quote: your1970
                    Then the question arises - if the elite "ruling gentlemen" are separate from the country's leadership - then why the hell did they need this? How did they allow the "Kremlin" to complicate things for them so much?
                    You do understand that selling conventional gas/oil used to be much easier for them than it is now?

                    You shouldn't consider them very smart people. Robbing a country doesn't require much intelligence. What's needed here is more force, impudence and cold-bloodedness. I suspect it was like this: "Now we'll quickly take Kyiv and dictate our terms to everyone. Otherwise, where will they go without our oil/gas!?" But when something went wrong... First there were the Istanbul doves of peace, then goodwill gestures, then "they deceived us!!! We thought we were our own, bourgeois."
                    In short, they drove themselves into zug-zwang. And not when the SVO started, but much earlier. When the country, army and navy were plundered. When they created their own thieves' vertical, in isolation from the state and its people. Now eat up, don't get your hands dirty, as they say.
                    1. +3
                      25 November 2024 16: 56
                      Quote: Zoer
                      There is no need to consider them as very smart people.

                      "When you consider your opponent a fool, you will lose" ©
                      The stupid people there ended back in 1990 - the classic representative of Bereza. There were too many who wanted them REDISTRIBUTE.
                      And then they immediately gobbled up the weak and feeble-minded oligarchs...
                      1. +4
                        25 November 2024 17: 39
                        Quote: your1970
                        The stupid people there ended back in 1990 - the classic representative of Bereza. There were too many who wanted to REDIVISION them.

                        There quickly ran out of completely frostbitten lawless people. Incompetent, as the Ukrainians are now called)))
                        Quote: your1970
                        And then they immediately gobbled up the weak and feeble-minded oligarchs...

                        The weak, yes. But the feeble-minded, no. It was precisely the smartest and most decent that were gobbled up. The cunning and dexterous remained. That is precisely why we cannot do anything constructive in the long term. No factories, no technologies, no science. We lack brains, and our greed is off the charts. The most we can do is build residential complexes, shopping malls and other complexes. Fast, for 5 years, and with a 500% margin. With such initial conditions, the country will NEVER have its own auto industry, nor mechanical engineering in general, nor microelectronics.
                      2. +1
                        25 November 2024 18: 20
                        Quote: Zoer
                        That is why we cannot do anything constructive in the long term. No factories, no technology, no science. We lack brains, and our greed is off the charts. The most we can do is build residential complexes, shopping malls and other complexes. In a quick way, for 5 years, and with a 500% margin.

                        Do you dare to predict what will happen in 10 years?
                        Maybe here the Volga Confederation will chase the Volga Republic, the Far Eastern Republic will declare war on Japan, and the Moscow Directory will fight with the St. Petersburg Caliphate? belay
                        Could this happen? Easy!
                        And who will invest in the long term - when Renault has a plant "bought" for 1 euro?
                        Abroad they know that everything is theirs for centuries, and the government has been pursuing roughly the same course for decades.
                        Our people know that they can be taken at any moment. And from all sides - from commissars in dusty helmets to simple bandits.

                        And our government has a furious resourcefulness - just like they started churning out the Bukhanka and TA-1957 in 57, they continue to churn out the "It'll do!"
                      3. +3
                        25 November 2024 20: 52
                        Quote: your1970
                        Do you dare to predict what will happen in 10 years?
                        Maybe here the Volga Confederation will chase the Volga Republic, the Far Eastern Republic will declare war on Japan, and the Moscow Directory will fight with the St. Petersburg Caliphate?
                        Could this happen? Easy!
                        And who will invest in the long term - when Renault's plant was "bought" for 1 euro?

                        So it's all true! Because the people in power are swindlers and temporary workers! Therefore, there are no global goals, no long-term, deep planning. Just to grab as quickly as possible and get to the side...
                        If we compare the same 20 years of Putin, from 2000 to 2020, with the 19 years of Stalin, from 1922 to 1941, we see a completely strikingly different picture of the country’s development.
                      4. -1
                        25 November 2024 22: 49
                        Quote: Zoer
                        If we compare the same 20 years of Putin, from 2000 to 2020, with the 19 years of Stalin, from 1922 to 1941, we see a completely strikingly different picture of the country’s development.

                        Haven't you read Littlepage?
                        The man who established gold mining and the USSR's "Glavzoloto"?
                        You will learn a lot about the country during that period, including where these achievements came from.
                      5. +4
                        26 November 2024 10: 01
                        Quote: your1970
                        Haven't you read Littlepage?

                        No, I haven't read it... What does gold mining have to do with it? That gold wouldn't have been enough for 5% of all industrialization. But today's black gold and blue fuel would have been more than enough to pull the country's industry up to an acceptable level in 20 years. But instead, the industry was only destroyed, and trillions of oil dollars were taken out to NATO countries.
                      6. -1
                        26 November 2024 18: 48
                        Quote: Zoer
                        No, I haven't read it... What does gold mining have to do with it? That gold wouldn't have been enough for 5% of all industrialization.

                        Read it, you will learn a lot of new things. A purely documentary diary of an engineer.
                        and regarding gold - only from A. Kan we received factories for 2 billion dollars. More of those dollars...
                        And there were also American suppliers.
                        It is generally not customary to remember the Germans, who supplied about 60% of the factories, but they did more than A. Kahn.
                        So, gold was always there, a penny grain - of which there was an excess in the USA at that time - there wouldn’t have been enough even if it had been completely exported from the country.

                        Quote: Zoer
                        However, today’s black gold and blue fuel would be more than enough to raise the country’s industry to an acceptable level in 20 years.
                        -
                        there was enough oil and gas sold to NATO in Germany in the 1970s - to start doing something instead of Bukhanka and TA-57?
                        Nonsense.....
                        Over the same 20 years, the communists managed to destroy the country, not to mention pull it up somewhere...
                        The communists were probably wrong...
                      7. +1
                        26 November 2024 20: 26
                        Quote: your1970
                        So, gold was involved.

                        Here everything is described interestingly.
                        https://topwar.ru/246895-stalinskaja-industrializacija-otkuda-sssr-vzjal-dengi-dlja-bolshogo-skachka.html
                        And the fact remains a fact. Stalin made a breakthrough in industrialization of the country in 19 years, VVP, on the contrary, blew it all. What happened with the gold is of little interest anymore.

                        Quote: your1970
                        Was there enough oil and gas sold to NATO in Germany in the 1970s to start doing something instead of the Bukhanka and TA-57?
                        Nonsense.....

                        Enough for a plant in Tolyatti. Enough for a plant in Naberezhnye Chelny. Enough for machine tools and other equipment. We still use it. Nonsense? I agree.
                        And have you tried comparing the export of resources in the 70s and now?
                      8. -2
                        26 November 2024 23: 34
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Enough for a plant in Tolyatti. Enough for a plant in Naberezhnye Chelny

                        to a hostile country like the USSR, the bourgeoisie sold machine tools and car factories, but to the bourgeois capitalist Russian Federation, they didn’t even sell an Opel.
                        Hostile England sells the USSR - after the Fulton speech and the "Crusade to the East" - jet engines for combat aircraft. They will never sell this to the capitalist RF.
                        Don't you find this a little strange?

                        Quote: Zoer
                        And have you tried comparing the export of resources in the 70s and now?
                        -well, if you consider that the socialist camp received them practically for free - that is, for nothing. The Czechs, for example, received oil for free for 10 years.
                        Gas/oil in NATO and Germany were pumped into the USSR at a rapid pace -current Leopards in Ukraine - with the help of Soviet gas were made in the 1980s. But at the same time they were supposedly going to war with Germany

                        Quote: Zoer
                        What happened with the gold is of little interest anymore.

                        You don't even read your own link:
                        "In the second half of the 1930s, the USSR came in second place in the world in gold mining. By 1936, compared to 1932, gold production increased by 4,4 times - from 31,9 to 138,8 tons. In the period from 1931-1934. removal gold from the USSR via Riga amounted to about 360 million gold rubles (more than 260 t)."
                        Man actually organized the extraction of this gold.


                        Quote: Zoer
                        Stalin made a breakthrough in the industrialization of the country in 19 years, but VVP, on the contrary, blew it all.
                        -that's why already in 1988 people were guarding cigarette butts on the street - to finish smoking.
                        Maybe it was the party that brought the country to such a point that it wasn’t even overthrown - the AUTHORITIES themselves lowered the country’s flag?
                      9. +1
                        27 November 2024 07: 20
                        Quote: your1970
                        Maybe it was the party that brought the country to such a point that it wasn’t even overthrown - the AUTHORITIES themselves lowered the country’s flag?

                        The parties were DIFFERENT, although they talked about continuity. The VKPb (Bolsheviks) built and won, and the CPSU (Khrushchev/Andropov's Trotskyists) destroyed and stole - practically absolute antagonists.
                      10. +2
                        27 November 2024 15: 06
                        It's useless. You won't prove anything to him. In his youth, a petty speculator, he hates the country that gave him everything for free. And he blames the fact that people like him, no matter with or without a party card, destroyed the Soviet power.
                      11. 0
                        27 November 2024 17: 33
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It's useless. You won't prove anything to him. In his youth, a petty speculator, he hates the country that gave him everything for free. And the fact is that that people like him, no matter with a party card or without, destroyed the Soviet power, and he blames it on it.

                        and to whom???!!!!The reptilians????
                        For you personally - since you have never understood it in your entire life - the POWER is always to blame for being overthrown.
                        Absolutely any - communist, capitalist, the power of the leader from the Solomon Islands, oligarchic power, the power of Nicholas II or Yanukovych.
                        If you served in the army, then you know "It wasn't you who was robbed - it was you who wasted it (swearing)!!!!"
                        It's the same with power - if power was stolen, then it is the fault of the AUTHORITIES: they did not hang the disobedient, did not feed the suffering, did not intimidate the weak in spirit, did not find mass supporters among the people, did not find allies on the side, did not keep the security forces in their fist, did not exclude the influence of foreign states, did not reduce the influence of possible competitors to zero, and so on.
                        POWER OF THE USSR did none of the above in order to hold on - did not destroy the opposition (it is not necessary to hang - often it is enough to buy), worked sluggishly with the weak in spirit and the suffering, the people watched from the side indifferently and did not rush under the tanks for power, there were no supporters left on the side by 1990, among the security forces there was complete lethargy and impotence.
                        I don’t doubt for a second that if Yanukovych had given the order, they would have arrived with 10 armored personnel carriers and smashed the Maidan into a mess, he would still be ruling.
                        Another issue is that Yanukovych, just like the CPSU, was incapable of giving such an order and ensuring its implementation.
                      12. +1
                        27 November 2024 20: 01
                        So what? Are you blaming us for not sending you and your kind to cut down trees and dig a canal?
                        As is well known, the security forces do not act without orders. There was no one to give orders to. All of yours were already in key positions there. They cleaned out the others in five years. This is about 91.
                        But there were still people in power who were capable of stopping the bourgeois restoration, the Supreme Court proved it in 93. Another thing is that there were fewer of us who supported him at a specific time and in a specific place, and the Judas Grachev chose the counter-revolutionary side and sent tanks. And a crime was committed. The usurper destroyed the legitimate power.
                        Today, minus those 20 million lost from your "reforms", half hate the system that was imposed on them. That is, the majority is obtained. Hence the voting for pocket Zyuganovites (although what kind of communists are they), the actual victory of Grudinin, etc.
                      13. -1
                        27 November 2024 20: 31
                        Quote: Essex62
                        half of them hate the system that was imposed on them. That is, the majority is formed. Hence the voting for pocket Zyuganovites (although what kind of communists are they?)Grudinin's actual victory belay belay belay etc.

                        Do you live in space?????
                        And after that you say something about communists lol lol ??
                        Well, now it’s clear why you’re incapable of anything - you don’t even know what happened and is happening in the country.
                        You just want to be against the government - that's how people in Ukraine voted for Zelensky - you didn't even understand what kind of candidate they were pushing on you. If they pushed Milli on you, you would vote for him too - if he said "All the bourgeois under the axe".....

                        City voted for him - "he lives in a state farm and shakes hands!!! Respectful!! and built a kindergarten!!! Our billionaire is almost a communist"
                        А village voted against him without exception - because in the villages they had seen enough of this chain in the 1990s - "SPK-OAO-ZAO" and who ultimately became the landowner and owner of all the land.
                        And the kindergarten is included in the balance sheet of the State Farm and increases the value of the shares - the main owner and holder of almost the entire block of shares of all is this candidate lol
                        Not only that, this candidate OFFICIALLY proclaimed his program - diametrically OPPOSITE program of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation.
                        I could still respect your position - but after this character - no, no, no, excuse me, I don’t understand people that much at your age...

                        ps
                        Quote: Essex62
                        So what? Are you blaming us for not sending you and your kind to cut down trees and dig a canal?

                        and what did you think? Or did you think that "Stalin is a bloody maniac"? So his life forced the enemies of the government to shoot
                        Quote: Essex62
                        As is well known, security forces do not act without orders.
                        - it is precisely the security forces who have it written down in their job description that they are RESPONSIBLE to identify and prosecute those who commit crimes against the government. Moreover, it is written down the security forces of any government in the world

                        Quote: Essex62
                        But there were still people in power who were capable of stopping the bourgeois restoration; the Supreme Court proved this in 93.Another thing is that there were fewer of us who supported him at a specific time and in a specific place.,.
                        - that is, you basically understand that WITHOUT an order is possible. At least you understand this
                      14. +1
                        27 November 2024 22: 03
                        I don't give a damn about these characters. I said that your capitalism is a pain in the neck for people, that's why they vote for at least a little bit "not like that". It's pointless, really, but that's another topic.

                        And as for the servicemen, I'll remind you, it's like this: you received an order, counted the number of stars or stripes, made sure that you have less, and went to carry it out. Never without an order from a senior in stock, they don't act, and the seniors have changed their colors. Finish. The security forces were excluded from the process, mercenaries acted.

                        The Armed Forces itself had the right to give orders. What are you talking about?
                      15. -1
                        27 November 2024 23: 29
                        Quote: Essex62
                        As for the servicemen, let me remind you that it’s like this: you receive an order, count the number of stars or stripes, make sure that you have fewer, and go to carry it out.

                        I'll repeat it personally for you - if KGB and Ministry of Internal Affairs were not able to fulfill their immediate DIRECT duties to catch traitors, betrayers and overthrowers of the system - for whom there is an article of the Criminal Code, but they pretend that without an order they have shit themselves and cannot do anything - then such a POWER has rotted in rot.However, this is exactly what the collapse of the USSR confirmed.

                        I will also repeat - if you are somewhere around the Armed Forces without (!!!) an order if they did something, that's an indication that it's possible without an order. And "there's no order" is for those who didn't want to do anything.
                      16. +1
                        28 November 2024 01: 20
                        Apparently you didn't serve, if you reason like that. And also, someone simply didn't believe that a counter-revolutionary coup was going on, everything seemed so unshakable, someone was pursuing selfish interests, someone was confused. But without an order, the security forces would do nothing. Although I agree that the office workers were full members of the party. And this obliged them to watch what was happening not only from the professional bell tower. And they locked themselves in the building and watched as Iron Felix, the symbol of the dictatorship of the proletariat, was being brought down.

                        Not around the Armed Forces but inside it. We defended as much as we could, having only small arms. Many people came themselves, including famous, respected people. While it was possible and the building was not besieged by the counter-terrorism forces. Only we had an order. The highest authority and the vice president of the USSR.
                      17. -1
                        28 November 2024 10: 25
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Apparently you didn’t serve, if you reason like that.

                        He served and for quite a long time.
                        The conversation is not about the army, but about the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                        They didn't need an order in principle.
                        Or do you think that an order is issued every time to initiate a criminal case against Vaska Pupkin?

                        Quote: Essex62
                        . And this obliged us to look at what was happening not only from the professional bell tower.

                        they were obliged to do so professional watch the bell towers and bring cases against all those who overthrow the legitimate government.
                        This is the problem - the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs directly violated the law by not doing anything within the framework of the current Criminal Code to protect the legitimate authorities.
                        And then they came up with an excuse - that "there was no order"...
                      18. +1
                        28 November 2024 12: 01
                        So, in your opinion, all security officials, down to the rank and file, deliberately violated their oath because they dreamed of living in capitalism?
                      19. -1
                        28 November 2024 12: 18
                        Quote: Essex62
                        So, in your opinion, all security officials, down to the rank and file, deliberately violated their oath because they dreamed of living in capitalism?

                        You have kindergarten-like naivety, I swear...
                        Failure to initiate a criminal case on the fact of a crime committed is a criminal offense.
                        Therefore, employees of the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs who did not initiate criminal cases on the facts of crimes to overthrow the legitimate government were automatically threatened with Article 88.2 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
                        Only a radical change of power in the country could save them from it....
                      20. +1
                        28 November 2024 22: 24
                        Really? They came up with a great reason for not resisting. Why did they behave like that and not initiate anything? They were even ready to get an article. What and who were they afraid of, the government was still people's, Soviet.? You have a mess in your head, you contradict yourself.
                      21. -1
                        29 November 2024 12: 23
                        Quote: Essex62
                        There's porridge in your head,
                        are you about yourself?
                        The security forces saw perfectly well that the Union was dying. Why bother?
                      22. +1
                        29 November 2024 13: 08
                        What do you mean, why? The duty of a communist, and simply a Soviet person who took an oath to defend the Motherland and the gains of socialism. I ask again - did everyone from private to general want capitalism or did they not receive an order?
                      23. -1
                        29 November 2024 19: 33
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Why? The duty of a communist, and simply of a Soviet person who took an oath to defend the Motherland and the achievements of socialism

                        It's strange, for some reason I didn't see mountains of officers' corpses - those who shot themselves out of shame for betraying their oath. Out of 4 army + 500 MVD + a couple hundred KGB generals - as many as 1600 shot themselves!...
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I ask again - did everyone from private to general want to join capitalism or did they not receive an order?

                        I will answer once again - persons who have the right to initiate criminal cases - do not need orders to initiate a case. Absolutely not needed - because the law orders are not provided.
                        The private and sergeant staff of the Ministry of Internal Affairs did not have the authority to initiate criminal cases - only administrative ones, the private and sergeant staff of the KGB (in the majority of the KGB PV) - did not even have the right to initiate administrative cases.
                        The theory "Not without an order!!" was invented later - when the population began to ask questions - why were the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs fed if they had screwed up and failed to fulfill their direct purpose - the fight against internal enemies of the government?
                      24. +1
                        29 November 2024 20: 39
                        And I haven't seen or heard of such people, so what? They all really wanted capitalism or simply didn't understand what was going on, they didn't care, etc. (including waiting for orders). This is about the army and the cops.

                        You have already written this. The reason you are trying to explain this with is completely insane. It is just that the Office staff, who had the right to open cases, was carefully thinned out and was ready to receive perks from the privatization. Opening cases against accomplices is nonsense. And they don't need any justification. Most of them are very rich and powerful people, who were not buried during the great redistribution.
                      25. -1
                        29 November 2024 23: 05
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It’s just that the Office’s staff, which had the right to open cases, was carefully thinned out and was ready to receive perks from the privatization.

                        It gets to you extremely slowly - at 3 belay day of discussion - that the system had rotted to dust, the apparatus of power had disintegrated, the security forces were incapable of anything, the people didn't care - and all this, together with the economic crisis, caused the collapse of the USSR.
                        I wrote this to you on the first day, but you kicked...
                      26. +1
                        30 November 2024 10: 12
                        Not the system, but the cogs of this system. There are many such rusty cogs. It's just that the task of educating the man of the future, for building a society of creators rather than egoists, has turned out to be too much at this stage. Maybe it will work out later.
                        P.S. There was no economic crisis in the Union. A planned economy does not know crises. Sabotage.
                      27. -1
                        30 November 2024 10: 45
                        Quote: Essex62
                        P.S. There was no economic crisis in the Union. A planned economy does not know crises. Sabotage.

                        Yeah, when the USSR bought grain from its main supplier throughout the 1970s and 80s OFFICIAL military and political enemy - the USA, then this is not a crisis - it is sabotage. The Central Committee of the CPSU and the Soviet government - in the period of the 1970-1980s - were total saboteurs. Either they lied that the USA was an enemy, or they were saboteurs to a man. In BOTH cases they are too rusty screws in a rusty system.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Not the system, but the cogs of this system. There are many of these rusty cogs.
                      28. 0
                        30 November 2024 15: 32
                        What nonsense? So what if they bought? They have the conditions to grow two crops a year, and we are a northern country. They sold, we bought. Even from the Martians, so that the country would have enough grain.
                        I'm talking about the sabotage of the 90s, when it was necessary to raise a wave of discontent and rock the pot. Which they did successfully.
                      29. -1
                        1 December 2024 02: 08
                        Quote: Essex62
                        What nonsense? So what, did you buy it?

                        First, they sold gas to the enemy in NATO in Germany to obtain currency and then, for this currency, they bought grain from the enemy in NATO in the USA.
                        Don't you think that the current hysteria "They're selling gas to NATO!" - against this background looks demagogic and strongly smacks of double standards?
                        However, your answer is known.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Yes, even among the Martians, what-

                        Only the Russian Federation cannot trade with its enemies - the USSR all it was possible...
                      30. 0
                        1 December 2024 02: 15
                        During the war, in the hot phase? Not desirable. As an officer, I think you understand why.
                      31. -1
                        1 December 2024 02: 32
                        Quote: Essex62
                        During the war, in the hot phase? Not desirable. As an officer, I think you understand why.

                        So Ukraine is far from being the first war between us. Where we fought with them - with the help of others - where they fought with us...
                      32. 0
                        1 December 2024 02: 37
                        There we fought on foreign soil, and here we have an intervention. There are already countless NATO troops there, and they have dragged the Bandera infection into power and helped to rewire the population. It is sad that we cannot do without this trade, because we are essentially refueling the enemy tanks ourselves.
                      33. -1
                        1 December 2024 09: 04
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It’s sad that we can’t do without this trade, because in essence we refuel the enemy tanks ourselves.

                        It's very sad, I absolutely agree.
                        But the state desperately needs money.
                        120 rounds per day per fighter*150 HP initial period*000 rubles=300 million per day. The dust of war - cartridges, not tanks, planes, missiles, communications, etc.
                        Payment of pensions - 30 billion per day. Without expenses for maintaining the Pension Fund - only pension payments
                      34. +1
                        1 December 2024 13: 52
                        Yes, war is a very expensive thing. But it could have been avoided, as was done later, by not allowing the coups in Belarus and Kazakhstan. But what is, is.
                      35. 0
                        27 November 2024 09: 16
                        Quote: your1970
                        to a hostile country like the USSR, the bourgeoisie sold machine tools and car factories, but to the bourgeois capitalist Russian Federation, they didn’t even sell an Opel.

                        Maybe the Russian Federation didn't try to buy anything in particular? Licenses and factories were and are sold. Citroen even sold a license and a factory for the C5 to Iran.
                        They even sold lithographs to Russia for the Angstrom T plant. And there the TP is 90/45 nm, by the way. But our handymen also went wrong there. So don't put on an offended face here.
                        Quote: your1970
                        England sells jet engines for combat aircraft to the hostile USSR after the Fulton speech and the "Crusade to the East". They will never sell this to the capitalist RF.

                        This was still due to the inertia of the alliance and before the Korean War. After that, aircraft engines and licenses for them were never sold. But the USSR did not need it. Their own were already quite up to par.
                        Quote: your1970
                        - Well, if you consider that the socialist camp received them practically for free - that is, for nothing.

                        Even if we take into account the volumes in barrels and kilometer, the difference is FOUR times. As for the monetary equivalent, it is probably more than 10 times. Somehow in the Russian Federation before 1998, the economy was also not very good, when a barrel cost up to 10 bucks. But when in the early 00s it already cost $ 120, then rivers of milk flowed into jelly banks. And until 2014, no one interfered with purchasing licenses and factories, launching industry in the country. But instead, the money was simply transferred to NATO countries. This is all you need to know about the Putin era.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Maybe it was the party that brought the country to such a point that it wasn’t even overthrown - the AUTHORITIES themselves lowered the country’s flag?

                        I have already spoken about this. These "Komsomol members" themselves dismantled the USSR for their own gain. And they are still doing this. It turned out to be a very rich country. But there is a limit to everything. It seems we have reached it.
                      36. -2
                        27 November 2024 17: 47
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Angstrom T plant sold

                        In 2011, former Russian Minister of Communications Leonid Reiman became a shareholder of the company, and that same year the credit line was unfrozen. Since 2012, management and shareholders have returned to building the plant and importing equipment, and also purchased a license for 90 nm microcircuits from IBM.

                        In August 2016, a pilot line was launched, but in September, Angstrem-T fell under American sanctions. This significantly complicated the plant’s work in terms of technology exports and work with foreign specialists, Kommersant’s sources say.

                        In 2017–2018, the company began to receive large claims from counterparties, and in December 2018, VEB.RF exercised its right of pledge, buying 100% of the shares from Runica Investments for 1 ruble. This step was caused by the “need to develop the microelectronics industry,” according to VEB.RF’s report (see Kommersant, February 26).

                        Quote: Zoer
                        But when in The beginning 00ххх it already cost $120, and that’s when rivers of milk started flowing into banks of jelly.
                        you a little you are confusing the dates feel
                        Oil cost $105 in 2008 (for a very short time) and that was Brent - our Urals was always cheaper
                        in 2010 - here yes, growth began to 100 and not for long
                        2000 – 26,2
                        2001 – 22,8
                        2002 – 23,7
                        2003 – 27,2
                        2004 – 26,8
                        2005 – 50,6
                        2006 – 61,09
                        2007 – 69,29
                        2008 – 94,4
                        2009 – 61,06
                        2010 – 78,2
                        2011 – 109,35
                        2012 – 110,52
                        2013 – 107,88
                        2014 – 97,6
                        2015 – 51,23
                        2016 – 41,9
                        2017 – 53,03
                        2018 – 70,01
                        2019 – 63,59
                        2020 – 41,73
                        2021 – 69,00
                        2022 – 76,09
                        2023 – 62,99
                        On April 20, 2020, Urals quotes fell to negative values ​​during trading (- 2 USD per barrel).
                      37. +1
                        27 November 2024 20: 28
                        Quote: your1970
                        This is stated in the VEB.RF report (see Kommersant of February 26).

                        Why so many letters? Lithographers were at 90 nm, with the prospect of moving to 45.
                        Quote: your1970
                        You're mixing up the dates a little bit

                        I exaggerated a little, just a little...
                        Since 2005, it has been consistently over 60, and on average it will be all of 80. The surplus was huge. How much was plundered and taken to NATO countries? How much could have been invested in the country's industry...
                      38. -1
                        27 November 2024 20: 34
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Why so many letters? Lithographers were at 90 nm, with the prospect of moving to 45.

                        you didn't read the highlighted part bold font
                        Quote: your1970
                        In August 2016 the pilot line was launched in the year, but already in September, Angstrom-T fell under American sanctions. This has significantly complicated the plant’s work in terms of technology exports and work with foreign specialists, Kommersant’s sources say.

                        the line was able to work for only 1 month
                      39. +1
                        27 November 2024 23: 00
                        Quote: your1970
                        the line was able to work for only 1 month

                        This is all nonsense. Read more carefully.
                        https://habr.com/ru/articles/413377/
                      40. -1
                        27 November 2024 23: 36
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Quote: your1970
                        the line was able to work for only 1 month

                        This is all nonsense. Read more carefully.
                        https://habr.com/ru/articles/413377/


                        on Habré modestly passed over the sanctions in silence

                        "Angstrom and Mikron were included in the US sanctions list"
                        Economy
                        07.09.2016 10:09
                        The US Department of Commerce has published an updated list of companies that fall under sanctions. These organizations have been restricted from exporting from the United States, RBC reports.
                        The list includes 81 companies – most of them were already declared on September 1 by the US Treasury Department, but 11 companies were added to this list only now, by decision of the Ministry of Commerce. The document was published on the Federal Register website. The list includes Zelenograd companies "Micron", "Angstrom", "Angstrom-M" and "Angstrom-T"."
                        https://zelenograd24.ru/pressroom/economy/detail/217719/

                        Naturally, problems arose - which, I repeat, were modestly passed over in silence on Habr
                      41. +1
                        27 November 2024 23: 39
                        Quote: your1970
                        Naturally, problems arose - which, I repeat, were modestly passed over in silence on Habr

                        Before the sanctions they couldn't. And they can't after. So what's the reason anyway? laughing
                        There is a factory, there are lithographers. What is missing? Has the silicon run out, or electricity?
                        Or is it that someone lacks brains?
                        To the thin dancer...
                      42. -1
                        28 November 2024 10: 09
                        Quote: Zoer
                        There is a factory, there are lithographers. What is missing? Has the silicon run out, or electricity?
                        Or is it that someone lacks brains?

                        Renault sold the plant for 1 euro. They couldn't start the conveyor - Renault took all the software. There are spare parts, bodywork, etc. - but the system doesn't work.
                        And that's it, that's all...
                        This is not a VAZ 2106 to be rivet with a sledgehammer...
                        And lithographers are a little more complicated than Logan.

                        Z. S
                        right now they turned off Windows and installed Astra Linux - I've been looking for 3 days to find out what is where - because everything is different. And this is not a conveyor or a lithograph at all
                      43. +2
                        28 November 2024 11: 05
                        Quote: your1970
                        This is not a VAZ 2106 to be rivet with a sledgehammer...
                        And lithographers are a little more complicated than Logan.

                        Chips, provided there is a ready and working line, are even easier to make than VAZ 2106. There are simply fewer components, materials and different technologies. Don't talk nonsense. In our country we have everything for chip production, except lithographers and capable top-level managers who are able to master the provided technology and set up production. I personally know a lot of such examples. Why go far. There is the story with Il - the most striking example.
                      44. +1
                        28 November 2024 14: 08
                        Quote: your1970
                        right now they turned off Windows and installed Astra Linux - I've been looking for 3 days to find out what is where - because everything is different. And this is not a conveyor or a lithograph at all

                        We have a ship repair yard in our city. For the third year now, a shaft surfacing machine has been lying around there, for subsequent restoration by turning. And it is not lying around because of some Astra-Linux, or the lack of a gravity capture device. The plant's managers simply lack the competence to set up the technical process and draw up the necessary documentation, obtain the necessary certificates. The plant is the sovereign's. fellow
                        PS: In our country, all security forces have been using this Astra for 3 years now. Nothing, they have mastered it. And even the software for the equipment for this Astra has already been developed and supplied.
                        For radical changes in the country, in all spheres, a change of guarantor is needed, to a radically different type of leader.
                      45. -1
                        28 November 2024 17: 11
                        Quote: Zoer
                        We have a ship repair yard in our city. For the third year now, a shaft surfacing machine has been lying around there, for subsequent restoration by turning. And it is not lying around because of some Astra-Linux, or the lack of a gravity capture device. The plant's managers simply lack the competence to set up the technical process and draw up the necessary documentation, obtain the necessary certificates. The plant is the sovereign's.

                        In 1988, I took part in smashing very expensive GDR equipment with sledgehammers in one research institute in Moscow. It was purchased in 1977, but it did not fit in the building. They did not give money for a new building, it lay quietly for 10 years and was written off. But in order to take it to the dump, it had to be made unusable lol
                        How the Dead Road was abandoned, along with the locomotives and rolling stock - you know without me. Here, either those who started it or those who abandoned it - the sycophantic leaders...


                        Quote: Zoer
                        PS: In our country, all the security forces have been driving this Astra for 3 years now.
                        I didn't know, they told me about the cops yesterday...

                        Quote: Zoer
                        For radical changes in the country, in all spheres, a change of guarantor is needed, to a radically different type of leader.

                        There is one problem - it is impossible to guess in advance whether it will be good or bad.
                        You'll now scream "a-a-a-a-a" - but next to Stalin were Khrushchev and Marked One, and next to him were two half-corpses.
                        I'm afraid, I'm really afraid - that if the new one is frankly bad, the West will not leave us time to replace him.
                        Well, and of course, the redistribution of property and spheres of influence will not happen without bloodshed.
                        I don’t want people to remember the stagnation with nostalgia like in the 1990s.

                        Z. Y.
                        Then they'll close VO - who will energetic, radically different leaders he wants to be criticized as the last one lol
                      46. +1
                        28 November 2024 20: 38
                        Quote: your1970
                        I'm afraid, I'm really afraid - that if the new one is frankly bad, the West will not leave us time to replace him.
                        Well, and of course, the redistribution of property and spheres of influence will not happen without bloodshed.
                        I don’t want people to remember the stagnation with nostalgia like in the 1990s.

                        And I'm not afraid anymore. I'm simply sure that it will be even worse than in the 90s. VVP is not eternal, just like Brezhnev was. And even before the 5-star fell into senility and mumbled our sausages, the USSR was doomed, because the rot of the elites had already completely affected the state.
                        And now, the longer this agony of the kleptocrats drags on, the worse it will be for the country.
                      47. -1
                        28 November 2024 22: 00
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Quote: your1970
                        I'm afraid, I'm really afraid - that if the new one is frankly bad, the West will not leave us time to replace him.
                        Well, and of course, the redistribution of property and spheres of influence will not happen without bloodshed.
                        I don’t want people to remember the stagnation with nostalgia like in the 1990s.

                        And I'm not afraid anymore. I'm simply sure that it will be even worse than in the 90s. VVP is not eternal, just like Brezhnev was. And even before the 5-star fell into senility and mumbled our sausages, the USSR was doomed, because the rot of the elites had already completely affected the state.
                        And now, the longer this agony of the kleptocrats drags on, the worse it will be for the country.

                        When Yanukovych passed away, about a year later a joke started going around Ukraine: “Yanukovych not only didn’t steal from the budget, but he even reported a little bit from his own!” ©
                        It may turn out that the "agony" is just a piece of cake, and the goodies - for example, NATO occupation forces - will arrive later...
                      48. +1
                        29 November 2024 10: 21
                        Quote: your1970
                        It may turn out that the "agony" is just a piece of cake, and the goodies - for example, NATO occupation forces - will arrive later.

                        No matter how long you drag it out... But it will hit you hard later. If these current ones don't change anything radically, everything will be exactly like this, and occupation troops, or bloody civil strife is quite possible. We already went through this 100 years ago.
                        And as far as I can see, they are not going to change anything. hi
                      49. -1
                        29 November 2024 12: 26
                        Quote: Zoer
                        If these current ones don’t change anything radically, everything will be exactly like this, and occupation troops, or bloody civil strife is quite possible.

                        In our country with an unpredictable history, anything can happen.
                        We'll see - if we live long enough
                        hi
                      50. +2
                        27 November 2024 07: 11
                        Quote: your1970
                        Over the same 20 years, the communists managed to destroy the country, not to mention pull it up somewhere...
                        The communists were probably wrong...

                        They are simply different. They were built by Stalin's Bolsheviks (VKPb), and destroyed by Khrushchev's and Andropov's Trotskyists (CPSU). Even the parties have different names.
                        And now - there is money in the country to spare, despite the war/SVO, but no matter how much you invest in the same aviation industry, it still doesn't fly, it's not being built, personnel aren't being trained - EVERYTHING is being stolen. Just look at the example of Rogozin Jr.
                        Quote: your1970
                        in the 1970s - to start doing something instead of the Bukhanka and TA-57?

                        Actually, it was then that RAF appeared and looked quite modern for the 70s. And there was also wassat ERAZ is a miracle of Armenian handicraft.
                        And what don't you like about the Bukhanka? In Japan they still shit boiling water on it. They like it. It's an army vehicle, all-terrain, and the people in the Army are conservative, they don't need frills, but cross-country ability, reliability and simplicity - so that a conscript can service it. And now in the SVO you can't go anywhere without a Bukhanka.
                      51. -1
                        27 November 2024 17: 49
                        Quote: bayard
                        And what don't you like about Bukhanka? In Japan they still piss boiling water on it to this day. I like it.

                        In Japan they can write in blood - but they only drive for some reason not on Bukhanki.
                        And in 1988, it was served by soldiers with obscenities, and now.

                        Did they modestly keep silent about the TA-57?
                      52. 0
                        27 November 2024 18: 48
                        Quote: your1970
                        And in 1988, it was served by soldiers with obscenities, and now.

                        request Military conservatism. But the RAF were quite decent minibuses for the 70s and early 80s. And the Bukhankas were only in the Army in the countryside and as technical vehicles for various services - because of their cross-country ability.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Did they modestly keep silent about the TA-57?

                        I don't even know what this is, I'm not a motorist.
                      53. -1
                        27 November 2024 20: 40
                        Quote: bayard
                        Quote: your1970
                        And in 1988, it was served by soldiers with obscenities, and now.

                        request Military conservatism. But the RAF were quite decent minibuses for the 70s and early 80s. And the Bukhankas were only in the Army in the countryside and as technical vehicles for various services - because of their cross-country ability.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Did they modestly keep silent about the TA-57?

                        I don't even know what this is, I'm not a motorist.

                        TA-57 is a telephone set from 1957, a direct descendant of TA-43 (1943) lol - the box was only made more beautiful. It was produced throughout the history of the USSR until the end- instead at least attempts to establish normal communication in the army. The Russian army also got it - smoothly flowed into the 21st century
                      54. +1
                        27 November 2024 22: 37
                        And what is wrong with this wonderful device? The handset is strong, ebonite, the microphone is noise-canceling, and the push-to-talk is on again. Maybe you also didn't like the commander's control panel-switch? Or is wire communication not more reliable and secure than radio communication? Again, there is a reserve. Give me a plastic handset now. stop no - just good old ebonite.
                        Classic bully
                        And the Bukhanka is not for beauty and comfort, but to get there on ploughed land, on any off-road - and complete the task. On country roads, the same ambulances until recently were only on Bukhankas. You are not a romantic, Sergey.
                      55. -1
                        27 November 2024 23: 17
                        Quote: bayard
                        And what is wrong with this wonderful device? The handset is strong, ebonite, the microphone is noise-canceling, and the push-to-talk again. Maybe you also didn't like the commander's control panel-switch? Or is wire communication not more reliable and protected than radio communication? Again, there is a reserve. Even now, give me a plastic handset - no - only good old ebonite.
                        Classic

                        UN observers under the hill - we are on the hill. They from below on their radio to "Intourist", where their base was - easily and naturally, we on our invincible R-105 - shouted directly to the headquarters lol We could be heard better without the radio.
                        And the TA-shka - you can use it to crack tank turrets like nuts, but to get through to them...
                  2. +6
                    25 November 2024 15: 05
                    Quote: your1970
                    The result is a joke - the "pawns" do not allow the "elite" to make peace - which is what they passionately want.

                    Nobody is going to make peace with them. No matter how much the sun-faced one bleated about peace talks. They even hired Carlson. The Westerners don't give a damn about this peace talks. They don't give a damn about the 404th, and they don't give a damn about our oligarchs either. The only thing they need is our capitulation, which the rulers categorically disagree with, because it threatens their personal security. And the only thing they, the Westerners, fear is our nuclear weapons. That's all.
                    1. -2
                      25 November 2024 17: 05
                      Quote: Zoer
                      Nobody is going to make peace with them. No matter how much the sun-faced one bleated about peace talks.

                      You are apparently simply not aware that in diplomacy, actions are always different from words.
                      Our they say about peace negotiations - but at the same time DO NOT DO nothing for the world.
                      By the way, the whole world is blaming our people for this very thing - "They say if there is peace, then withdraw your troops, stop pounding Ukraine, etc. ..."
                      1. +2
                        25 November 2024 17: 43
                        Quote: your1970
                        Our people talk about peace negotiations, but at the same time they DO NOTHING for peace.
                        By the way, the whole world is blaming our people for this very thing - "They say if there is peace, then withdraw your troops, stop pounding Ukraine, etc. ..."

                        It doesn't work that way. And when the Commander-in-Chief directly talks about peace talks, it's not diplomacy anymore. And the withdrawal of troops and ceasefire only happen AFTER agreements are reached. Otherwise, it's capitulation. Don't get involved in substituting concepts.
                        And the guarantor himself hinted to Carlson that he would be satisfied with formalizing the status quo along the line of contact. But no one in the West categorically agrees to this.
                      2. 0
                        25 November 2024 18: 23
                        Quote: Zoer
                        It doesn’t work like that.
                        - this is exactly how it works all over the world - but not here and not now. We talk - but we don't do
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Otherwise, it is capitulation.
                        - literally right now Israel is supposedly making peace with Lebanon - supposedly not going to hammer Lebanon. Is this Israel's capitulation?
                      3. +2
                        25 November 2024 20: 57
                        Is Israel under sanctions? Are the lands of Israel occupied? How is Hamas doing? Israel simply does not want to get involved in a major war of attrition. And they have such an opportunity. What kind of defeat can we talk about? First they will agree, then they will withdraw their troops from Lebanon. Where will our troops be withdrawn from? From the Kursk region, or from Donbass and Crimea?
                      4. +1
                        27 November 2024 10: 42
                        Our people talk about peace negotiations, but at the same time they DO NOTHING for peace.

                        But they also do nothing to win and make mistakes.
                        For example, during the Istanbul negotiations, the offensive was stopped for a day, an order came to stand still, the columns were sadly parked on the side of the road, but the order from the Ukrainian Armed Forces to stand still was not received, the Ukrainian Armed Forces established the coordinates of the columns within a day, brought up artillery and attacked the columns...
                        who should not have gathered in a group, but rather dispersed and dug in.
                        The very idea of ​​stopping military actions once they have started seems idiotic...with such a situation it is unlikely that we will win easily or even win at all.
                  3. 0
                    25 November 2024 18: 38
                    Quote: your1970
                    I don’t know about the children; the wives are definitely under sanctions.

                    All Russians abroad (in the EU) are under sanctions. These are not personal sanctions, but a collective "punishment".
                    1. +2
                      25 November 2024 21: 00
                      Quote: Motorist
                      All Russians abroad (in the EU) are under sanctions. These are not personal sanctions, but a collective "punishment".

                      All those "scattered" have long had two, three, five citizenships of those NATO countries. What sanctions for them are you talking about?
                      1. +1
                        25 November 2024 21: 08
                        Quote: Zoer
                        What sanctions are you talking about for them?

                        Specifically? What I know: any movement of money over 100 thousand is prohibited. For all Russians, regardless of the number of passports. Anticipating your laughter, I will say that this amount is only half a house in the village or one and a half to two BMWs.
                      2. +2
                        25 November 2024 22: 05
                        Can you send me a link to such horrors regarding all Russians?
                      3. -2
                        25 November 2024 22: 15
                        No, I won't. Even banks are very reluctant to give explanations. Try looking for (for Germany) Verordnung (EU) 2022/330 or something similar.
                      4. 0
                        25 November 2024 22: 44
                        Quote: Motorist
                        No, I won't. Even banks are very reluctant to give explanations.

                        Ah, I see. The OBS (one woman said) news agency in all its glory.
                        I even read in the media that the Germans confiscated cars with Russian license plates. But that they would somehow oppress Russians with a residence permit, not to mention those with citizenship in those countries, is some kind of fantasy.
                      5. +1
                        25 November 2024 22: 31
                        Found for you: hi

                        Verboten wird EU-Banken weiters, Einlagen von mehr als EUR 100.000,00 von russischen natürlichen oder juristischen Personen entgegenzunehmen (Art 5b und 5c). Damit einhergehend erfolgt eine entsprechende Meldeverpflichtung bereits bestehender Einlagen über diesen Betrag (Art 5g). Weiters soll ein grundsätzliches Verbot ergehen, übertragbare Wertpapiere (in EUR begeben) an russische natürliche oder juristische Personen zu verkaufen (Art 5f). Auch Zentralverwahrer dürfen keine Dienstleistungen (unter Verweis auf die Verordnung (EU) Nr. 909/2014) iZm Wertpapieren an russische natürliche oder juristische Personen erbringen (Art 5e).
                      6. 0
                        25 November 2024 22: 47
                        Oh yeah, a ban on opening deposits and the sale of securities greatly interfere with the purchase and sale of yachts, villas and cars. Yeah...
                      7. +1
                        25 November 2024 22: 53
                        Damn, Alexander! This is not much money for an EU resident. There will be more. You can't even imagine how many of your compatriots live there for various reasons. Are they all traitors?! Shit on them?!
                      8. +2
                        26 November 2024 10: 17
                        Quote: Motorist
                        Damn, Alexander! That's not much money for an EU resident.

                        I still haven't seen a ban on property transactions worth more than 100K legal entities for Russian citizens... A ban on opening a deposit is simply a ban on storing money in savings accounts.
                        Quote: Motorist
                        Your compatriots live there for different reasons. Are they all traitors?! Shit on them?!

                        All those of my compatriots from the ruling class living there - yes, they are definitely TRAITORS!
                      9. 0
                        26 November 2024 14: 41
                        What I gave you is a FAQ from one of the banks. You need to go to the general EU Commission FAQ to find the answers. The only thing I can say is that this is not only about deposits:

                        The prohibition applies to all deposits as defined in Article 1(k), irrespective of the type of account they are being held in. The limit of EUR 100 should be understood as the sum of all accounts being held at a credit institution.

                        In order not to delve into the jungle of sanctions, we simply turn on logic: if the amount in the accounts cannot exceed 100 thousand, then it will not be possible to spend more than that.
                      10. +1
                        26 November 2024 16: 17
                        Quote: Motorist
                        We simply turn on logic: if the amount in the accounts cannot exceed 100 thousand, then it will not be possible to spend more than that.

                        On DEPOSIT accounts!!!!
                        The prohibition applies to all deposits

                        I'll tell you a TERRIBLE secret! You can't spend anything at all through a DEPOSIT account. In principle.
                        A deposit account is an account for recording assets deposited by a client of a bank or other financial institution for the purpose of receiving income in the form of interest.

                        What do transactions and expenses have to do with it? fellow
                      11. 0
                        26 November 2024 16: 38
                        Quote: Zoer
                        On DEPOSIT accounts!!!!

                        Question from EU FAQ (answer in my previous comment):

                        Does the prohibition in Article 5b apply for all types of account (eg savings and current accounts)?

                        Quote: Zoer
                        What do transactions and expenses have to do with it?

                        Where to get money if not from a bank? The circulation of physical cash in the EU is under control in order to "increase the effectiveness of the fight against money laundering and terrorist financing."
                    2. +1
                      27 November 2024 10: 52
                      All Russians Abroad (in the EU) Under Sanctions

                      They bought golden investment visas and invested capital there, the EU wanted to take it away, but came to its senses and decided not to do so. There is an article, for example, Nikulin's son has taken over the circus, he is a billionaire, he calmly travels to Monte Carlo and hires Russophobes to be on the jury, and Ivanov's wife has also traveled to the EU, Abramovich has lived in London for 15 years.
                      England has decided that until war is declared, they will not arrest the accounts of compradors. They build their business on laundering stolen capital; it is not profitable for them to destroy the business.
                      1. -1
                        27 November 2024 17: 54
                        Quote: nickname7
                        Abramovich has lived in London for 15 years.

                        Quote: nickname7
                        England has decided before war is declared, compradors' accounts will not be frozen.
                        - Oh yeah!!!!
                        but Abramovich has a small problem - his accounts have been frozen (like all the sanctioned oligarchs)
                        Quote: your1970
                        Forbes writes the opposite - that Abramovich refused to lift sanctions
                        https://yandex.ru/turbo/forbes.ru/s/milliardery/502954-evropejskij-sud-otkazalsa-snat-sankcii-es-protiv-milliardera-romana-abramovica
                  4. +2
                    27 November 2024 10: 32
                    How did they allow the "Kremlin people" to make things so difficult for them?

                    It is not the Kremlin that is complicating things, the West has begun the onslaught, wanted to establish missile bases in Crimea, this is a threat to seize the oligarchs' feeding zone.
                    The West would not mind throwing away this comprador layer and owning the resources themselves.
                2. 0
                  25 November 2024 18: 29
                  And I didn’t even talk about the pawns’ children.
                  - Look at you, "grandmaster" - manufacturer...
        2. +6
          25 November 2024 13: 11
          Of course the kids are back and fighting for their homeland. In the cockpits of fighters, at the sights of artillery, in the trenches on LBS. Haven't you noticed? wassat
          1. -1
            25 November 2024 14: 36
            Quote: Essex62
            Of course the kids are back and fighting for their homeland. In the cockpits of fighters, at the sights of artillery, in the trenches on LBS. Haven't you noticed? wassat

            Exactly where the entire communist party nomenklatura fled with their children in the 1990s.
            In the same place - where the decorated Zykins, Popovs and other singers/hockey players fled.
            1. +4
              25 November 2024 14: 42
              I will disappoint the anti-Soviet and anti-communist, the party nomenklatura has fled, but it is no longer communist. The communists have remained here, together with everyone else, to pull the strap of collapse. What kind of communists are they, with property and bourgeois views?
              1. +3
                25 November 2024 15: 31
                Well, what kind of communists are they, with property and bourgeois views?
                These were the main communists in the Central Committee, they began to build communism in individual families request
                And not only ours. Browder is the son of the main American communist, Hakamada is the son of the Japanese. Apparently, such fake communists, hungry for money, made a better party career than those who pulled the strap
                1. +1
                  26 November 2024 00: 49
                  That's exactly what I'm talking about. Well, they're not communists, are they? No?
                  1. 0
                    26 November 2024 01: 23
                    How are you going to distinguish a true communist from a latent capitalist? With the help of a myelophone? Or by MRI of the brain? Otherwise it may turn out that there have never been true communists, this one, when given the opportunity, was reforged into a Turkmenbashi, that one privatized the factory, the third sold diamonds to capitalists, the fourth raised a traitor, and so on. And you are the only one who is true to the ideas of communism. smile
                    1. +1
                      26 November 2024 10: 42
                      So according to his deeds and convictions. All of the above is repulsive to a communist, that's why they are not one. I can only add myself to them with some difficulty, because I own property. Well, in order not to end up on the street, I had to privatize the Khrushchev-era building. But you can't call me a bourgeois either.
                      1. 0
                        26 November 2024 10: 46
                        Quote: Essex62
                        So according to his deeds and convictions
                        Well, if you comb through it with a myelophone, it turns out that there never were any such people, everyone memorized the correct phrases, started saying the right things that you could listen to with bated breath, but they didn’t forget about themselves and their relatives.
                      2. +1
                        27 November 2024 13: 25
                        When a person does not forget his relatives - he is a good person. But in essence - the Soviet party nomenklatura did not have property, only personal and state-issued. Well, while in the clip, they took it away when they left. Well, they could leave a dacha, if they were very deserving. Everyone worked for a salary, no castles, yachts, Falcons, billion-dollar accounts. THERE WERE NOT and could not be. A thick ration, with caviar and salami, is nothing compared to robbery, for the personal benefit of the entire people.
                      3. 0
                        27 November 2024 13: 40
                        the soviet party nomenklatura had no property
                        and many people were not happy with this, they decided to fix it. Capitalism was built according to Dunno on the Moon, apparently
                      4. 0
                        27 November 2024 20: 14
                        No way, capitalism, very quickly, partners established. Along the way plundering and weakening the defense capability.
                      5. +1
                        27 November 2024 20: 58
                        This is all for the sake of acceptance into the bourgeoisie. A couple of years ago, Putin said that in order for Yandex to pass an IPO, they set a condition for how many Americans and Britons should sit on the board of directors. Why would you think that it was different in other places? Do you want us to let you use stolen money to build a mansion in Nice? Then destroy the tractor plant! At the same time, scrap metal and land for a shopping center. And there turned out to be a critical number of such bad guys, and many serious uncles who defended them with weapons in their hands. And there were people who could join the criminal groups. And all the Kibalchishi sat in their kitchens and resolutely condemned
                      6. 0
                        27 November 2024 21: 48
                        This is the key point. There was simply no one to unite due to the opposition. The last and only attempt was in 93.
              2. -2
                25 November 2024 16: 43
                Quote: Essex62
                Well, what kind of communists are they, with property and bourgeois views?

                Hmm, and how did 15 million communists elect 1 million NOT communists, but bourgeois, to lead themselves and the country?
                All sorts of "Red Directors" with armfuls of shares - did they fall from the sky or were they brought in by the CIA straight to the position of plant director?
                Where did they get the collective farm chairmen (future latifundists) from - from Mars?
                Who gave Chubais recommendations when he joined the party?
                I don't argue - there were real communists. Only there were 16 million of them, God willing, a couple of hundred thousand...
                1. +2
                  26 November 2024 00: 37
                  Well, most likely there will be more. They are still alive today and have no businesses. But the fact that they failed to organize is due to inertia of thinking and "relaxation". They have become unaccustomed to class struggle, when around them there is a "great community of the Soviet people" proclaimed. Although they saw and understood that the country was going in the wrong direction. Even before the marked one.
                  1. 0
                    26 November 2024 06: 38
                    Quote: Essex62
                    Well, most likely there will be more. They are still alive today and do not have businesses.

                    No.
                    Those who joined the party after 1970 mostly joined for the sake of a career or according to a “plan”.
                    But that's not even the point - those who entered the 1970s are automatically aged 70+. The main body living party members are party members of 1980, these are already obviously people in the mass - not those..
                    1. +1
                      26 November 2024 10: 33
                      negative What a colorful label you have just hung on me and my comrades. Thank you.
                      1. 0
                        26 November 2024 18: 41
                        Quote: Essex62
                        negative What a colorful label you have just hung on me and my comrades. Thank you.

                        Well, you are labeling me as an "anti-Soviet" - a person who did not join the Komsomol because he considered himself unworthy. lol
                        So - please....
                        however, this does not change the fact that
                        Quote: Essex62
                        failed to organize, then the inertia of thinking and "relaxation". We have lost the habit of class struggle, when around "the great community of the Soviet people" proclaimed. Although they saw and understood that the country was going in the wrong direction. Even before the marked one.

                        - that is, they were precisely amorphous "mass"
                        And this NOT I lowered the price of party cards on Arbat in 1991 to 5 dollars - that's how many of them there were lot there were. If they were on sale for 5, it means they were bought for 1-2 bucks at most
                      2. +2
                        26 November 2024 21: 31
                        Never been an amorphous mass. I strangled your brother the profiteer-speculator, to the best of my ability and possibilities. Until you took power by shooting the legitimate, Soviet one.
                      3. 0
                        26 November 2024 23: 20
                        well, yes, well, yes-
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I strangled your brother, the profiteer-speculator,
                        -And how many political sentences do you have behind you? 20 hard labor? 10 exiles? Or like Kamo - the gallows and a mental hospital?
                        Or did you organize the arrest of local saleswomen for cheating?
                        what's the point of the fact that you personally may not have been a mass - the other 15 were...

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Until you take power by shooting the legitimate, Soviet one.
                        - So why did your amorphous mass sit still on its ass and quietly flare its nostrils - nothing more, when the authorities - especially the legitimate ones - were being shot? Were you scared?
                        If 16 million had simply spat, the oligarchs would have drowned...
                        Chatterboxes and demagogues who had squandered the country - that's what the party represented by 1990.
                        And you can throw eggs and push slogans here - among the 16 million members (?) of the CPSU, there was not a single one loyal to the oath, the country and the party - capable of raising the ODON and cutting the hell out of EBN and company.
                        The result? The oligarchs didn't give a damn about all 16 million at once - because it was an amorphous mass, plasticine...

                        I repeat - the CPSU betrayed the country, the people and the party. It was from it that all the current oligarchs emerged - they ALL were either party or Komsomol workers.
                      4. +1
                        27 November 2024 01: 44
                        Of course it's scary, only idiots aren't afraid. Several hundred guns and stupid tanks and all there, where you are with one Kalashnikov and a couple of magazines. But that's just poetry. They pumped him out, he survived.

                        If they had gotten there in 93, when they were transporting him on the floor of a Zaporozhets from the dacha, they would have cut him out for sure.

                        I don't argue that the majority betrayed the country. I didn't. And many others did too.
                      5. +1
                        27 November 2024 02: 33
                        Quote: your1970
                        So why did your amorphous mass sit still on its ass and quietly flare its nostrils - nothing more, when the authorities - especially the legitimate ones - were being shot?

                        I'll speak for myself, I was still too young then to somehow resist this. Well, many older people were simply stupidly deceived in 1991, because they were promised something completely different.
                      6. 0
                        27 November 2024 20: 22
                        They were ready to be deceived. The party members (it is impossible to call them communists) behaved, at best, inertly. And many, very many, rushed to sell. In 91, this is exactly what they promised. It was in 85-87 that the marked one was preaching - more socialism.
                      7. 0
                        27 November 2024 20: 58
                        Quote: Essex62
                        They were willing to be deceived.

                        Well, I don’t know, I can only judge by my parents, they believed that instead of the USSR there would now be the CIS, but everything would more or less remain as it was, well, except for the CPSU, which had discredited itself by that time.
                      8. 0
                        27 November 2024 21: 21
                        Will it remain as it was? Like, when the social system changes?
                      9. 0
                        27 November 2024 21: 32
                        Quote: Essex62
                        What is it like when the social system changes?

                        Well, in 1917 the system also changed, but the country still remained for the most part. The name Russian Empire changed to USSR.
                      10. 0
                        27 November 2024 21: 38
                        Well, it hasn't gone anywhere. The bourgeois-feudal Russian Federation still stands. Where is the deception here?
                      11. 0
                        27 November 2024 21: 52
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The bourgeois-feudal Russian Federation still stands.

                        I propose to compare the borders of the Russian Empire, the USSR and today's Russia.
                      12. 0
                        27 November 2024 22: 07
                        The outskirts broke away, well, that was inevitable. What's the deception? Everyone was told honestly - here's a market for you, swim out. Or did your family get "caught in the crossfire" on one of the outskirts? Then I understand what you mean. hi
                      13. 0
                        27 November 2024 22: 16
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Or did your family get caught in the crossfire on one of the outskirts?

                        You guessed it, we ended up outside the country at the whim of an alcoholic.
                      14. 0
                        28 November 2024 22: 59
                        It's very sad, but the rift began from the outskirts. The most vulnerable spot is in the "bay republics" of the SA. Corruption and theft, from the Slavic part of the USSR, launched its tentacles there. Fertile soil. In the West, the "showcase of socialism" has reared its ugly head, where no one has thinned out nationalism for a long time. And "for dessert" the Ukrainian SSR, where no one strangled the Banderites either. Not a single alcoholic is to blame here, this is a collective decision of all the traitors of the Union at that time.
                      15. 0
                        29 November 2024 00: 08
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It's not just one drunkard who's to blame here.

                        He is not the only one, of course, Gorbachev also did a lot to destroy the union, and the other participants in the Belovezhskaya conspiracy were, of course, also involved in this crime.
            2. +1
              25 November 2024 15: 27
              Quote: your1970
              Exactly where the entire communist party nomenklatura fled with their children in the 1990s.
              In the same place - where the decorated Zykins, Popovs and other singers/hockey players fled.

              Heh, at least they didn't tell us how to live. They didn't pass hundreds and thousands of idiotic laws. They didn't rob the country and didn't transfer capital to NATO countries. They didn't bring everything to the SVO. They didn't declare "partial" mobilization.
              1. -1
                25 November 2024 16: 45
                Quote: Zoer
                Heh, at least these didn't tell us how to live. These same people didn't pass hundreds and thousands of idiotic laws.

                Oh well - but I remember that our regiment commander would go crazy at the sight of the party organizer (who had been released, a colonel's position, while the deputy political officer had a ceiling - a basement). Because he was a sinner when it came to women - and the party organizer could have left him to serve in Kushka forever...
    3. -5
      25 November 2024 11: 23
      Quote: Scipio
      Our "elite" abroad has too much that has been acquired through hard work. Those who can, do it.

      I will modestly remind you about the sanctions on ALL the leadership of the Russian Federation - which clearly means that nothing acquired there has been there for a long time - accounts are frozen, real estate/yachts are under arrest.
      In addition, there have long been decisions by courts of sanctioning countries - that, for example, payment for yacht mooring and utilities in the mansions of those arrested - are written off from frozen accounts. So the accounts are reduced.
      In addition, EU and American banks, not wanting to fall under sanctions, are not opening new accounts.
      1. +1
        25 November 2024 11: 26
        Today it's frozen and seized, and tomorrow everything will be returned. Don't worry so much)
        1. -5
          25 November 2024 11: 36
          Quote: Scipio
          Today it's frozen and seized, and tomorrow everything will be returned. Don't worry so much)

          They won't return it - that's not why they froze it belay
          If Trump does lift some of the sanctions, it will be a very small part and only for trade, nothing more.
          1. +5
            25 November 2024 15: 37
            Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal
            1. 0
              25 November 2024 16: 56
              Quote from alexoff
              Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal

              It was returned to him immediately after the surrender of Kherson.
              1. +3
                25 November 2024 17: 36
                So in Kherson there was just a difficult decision, the last one in this combo. Then at Christmas our rulers really wanted a one-sided ceasefire, fortunately the men at the front ignored it
            2. -1
              26 November 2024 07: 24
              Quote from alexoff
              Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal

              Quote: lis-ik
              Quote from alexoff
              Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal

              It was returned to him immediately after the surrender of Kherson.

              Hmm, but Forbes writes the opposite - that Abramovich refused in lifting sanctions feel
              https://yandex.ru/turbo/forbes.ru/s/milliardery/502954-evropejskij-sud-otkazalsa-snat-sankcii-es-protiv-milliardera-romana-abramovica
        2. -1
          25 November 2024 16: 12
          Quote: Scipio
          and tomorrow everything will be returned.

          No, they won’t return it, although some naive people may believe that they will return it.
          1. 0
            26 November 2024 00: 46
            By the way, they returned it to Abramovich.
            1. 0
              26 November 2024 07: 26
              Quote: Essex62
              By the way, they returned it to Abramovich.

              As of December 2023 - no. Had tried return - does not mean that they returned

              Quote: your1970
              Quote from alexoff
              Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal

              Quote: lis-ik
              Quote from alexoff
              Abramovich was defrosted and returned everything after regrouping, difficult decisions and the removal of Nazis from Azovstal

              It was returned to him immediately after the surrender of Kherson.

              Hmm, but Forbes writes the opposite - that Abramovich refused in lifting sanctions feel
              https://yandex.ru/turbo/forbes.ru/s/milliardery/502954-evropejskij-sud-otkazalsa-snat-sankcii-es-protiv-milliardera-romana-abramovica
      2. +2
        25 November 2024 14: 44
        Are you creating a nationally oriented bourgeoisie? Nope, these are not the times, it won't work. We're up to our ears in globalism.
        1. -1
          25 November 2024 16: 51
          Quote: Essex62
          Are you creating a nationally oriented bourgeoisie? Nope, these are not the times, it won't work. We're up to our ears in globalism.

          What does "nationally oriented" have to do with seized property?
          The question was that they would never see their property or money again - either they were in power or they weren’t.
          1. +2
            26 November 2024 00: 45
            And with such passages they try to prove that they are bourgeois, but ours are bourgeois and honestly pull the strap, with all the plebs, in the fight against world imperialism. Like, everything was taken away from them and now they are generally against their Western colleagues... wow. Looking at reality, "Stanislavsky" turns on automatically.
            1. 0
              26 November 2024 07: 35
              Quote: Essex62
              And with such passages they try to prove that they are bourgeois, but ours are bourgeois and honestly pull the strap, with all the plebs, in the fight against world imperialism. Like, everything was taken away from them and now they are generally against their Western colleagues...

              Have you ever heard anything against their Western colleagues from any oligarch? At least something like "Scoundrels and scoundrels froze my money!"?
              You for yourself they came up with it and didn't believe it themselves, according to Stanislavsky
              1. +2
                26 November 2024 10: 29
                Of course I hear. Their main one constantly criticizes both the mattresses and their gay-European lackeys.
                1. 0
                  26 November 2024 16: 25
                  Quote: Essex62
                  Of course I hear. Their main one constantly criticizes both the mattresses and their gay-European lackeys.

                  And have you heard even one word from him about the 78 billion frozen individuals?
                  I've heard about 300 billion in government money, but never about 78 billion.
                  And then you also lifted sanctions against Abramovich
                  1. +1
                    27 November 2024 14: 47
                    And you want him to whine about this? Well, he can't. He's not only the leader of the oligarchy, but also the guarantor of all Russians. All these people won't understand.
                    1. -1
                      27 November 2024 17: 59
                      Quote: Essex62
                      And you want him to whine about this? Well, he can't. He's not only the leader of the oligarchy, but also the guarantor of all Russians. All these people won't understand.

                      I repeat - you
                      Quote: your1970
                      Have you ever heard anything against their Western colleagues from any oligarch? At least something on the level of "Scoundrels and scoundrels froze my money!"?
                      You came up with it yourself "and they honestly pull the strap, with all the plebs, in the fight against world imperialism" and they themselves did not believe it according to Stanislavsky
                      1. +2
                        27 November 2024 19: 41
                        You don't want to understand this at all. It's a pity, oh how they pity the stolen money and they don't want to cut the umbilical cord with their "partners". I don't believe in their butting heads with spiritual mentors. Noodles on the ears of the electorate, such a long one. Russia is part of the global project of the Naglo-Saxons. Only adherents of capitalist values, anti-Sovietists, anti-communists don't see this. Well, people like you. And what did I come up with here?
                      2. -1
                        27 November 2024 20: 45
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I don't believe in their butting heads with spiritual mentors. Noodles on the ears of the electorate, such a long one.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        What did I come up with here?
                        you came up with their "butting, noodles" and so on.
                        Give an example
                        Quote: your1970
                        Have you ever heard anything against their Western colleagues from any oligarch? At least something like "Scoundrels and scoundrels froze my money!"?
                        or "I'll tear your mouth apart for the people!!!"
                        There is no butting there and never has been.- our oligarchs are flesh and blood of capitalism - but somewhere you see some kind of butting...
                      3. +1
                        27 November 2024 21: 50
                        No, I don't see it, I hear it every day. The main oligarch is broadcasting from the box.
                      4. -1
                        27 November 2024 23: 20
                        Quote: Essex62
                        No, I don't see it, I hear it every day. The main oligarch is broadcasting from the box.

                        Well, I see...
                        If Gorbachev was broadcasting from the box, then apparently the whole country thought the same thing? He was the main defender of the people - according to documents and party membership card (no).....
                      5. +1
                        28 November 2024 01: 29
                        You are simply trying to blur, not wanting to admit that the government and the oligarchs-compradors are one whole. Well, what does the marked one have to do with it? The position of the towers and Putin personally, suggested to us - there are enemies beyond the puddle and in the gayropes. No?
                      6. -1
                        28 November 2024 10: 48
                        Quote: Essex62
                        that the government and the oligarchs-compradors are one and the same.

                        If this were a single whole, then we would have the Seven Bankers, EBN and the 1990s.
                        You've probably heard that "money loves silence"? So sanctions are the alarm bells about oligarchs' money.
                        It was much more profitable for them WITHOUT Crimea and LPR/DPR - quietly, without pathos, they sold everything in a row and took the money out. And then bam and everything went down the drain - the money was frozen, trade was cut, there were problems with yachts/villas.

                        Now he's leaving - leaving practically everything behind - Unilever - do you think they're happy? They're losing a huge chunk of money in the Russian Federation. Our oligarchs (including oilmen) are penniless, like a junior assistant shepherd, compared to them.
                      7. +1
                        28 November 2024 11: 38
                        No way. To promote themselves, because the appearance of a system of bonds must be supported by something. The fighters could not fail to use such a gift as the uprising of the Russian people in Crimea and Donbass. And they used it in the hope that it would slip through without consequences. They did not slip through. Now they cannot get out of this mess, because their spiritual mentors do not give a damn about them, they do not even let the new nouveau riche sit on a small chair at their sabbath. Their pirates and bandits will be a thousand years old, what the disguised Soviet party nomenklatura members are to them.
                      8. -1
                        28 November 2024 11: 50
                        Quote: Essex62
                        To promote oneself, because the appearance of a system of bonds needs to be supported by something.

                        The oligarchs (except Prigozhin) have absolutely no need for PR and never have.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        wrestlers
                        have nothing to do with the oligarchs.
                        It was obvious that there would be sanctions. The West didn't invest money in Maidan for that - to have it overthrown.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Now they can’t get out of this mess.
                        It was elementary - it was enough to gradually cut funding for the LPR and DPR - "There is no money, but you hold on."
                        And even more so, they absolutely did not need the SVO - which caused a waterfall of sanctions and the cessation of trade.

                        You combine them - but they are different in principle Group opposing each other.
                      9. +1
                        28 November 2024 11: 54
                        How can this not be, and what to do with the dissatisfied people? No, the appearance of bonds must be maintained. Or cancel the liberal course and introduce a dictatorship.
                      10. -1
                        28 November 2024 12: 01
                        Quote: Essex62
                        How is this not necessary, but what to do with dissatisfied people?

                        Nothing, absolutely nothing. "Bread and Circuses". It worked in Ancient Rome, the USSR and works now in the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Or cancel the liberal course and introduce a dictatorship.
                        You don't know liberal dictatorships??? There were a lot of them in history - they were just usually called differently.....
                      11. +1
                        28 November 2024 12: 04
                        So I was not mistaken, mold the fighters into a nationally-oriented bourgeoisie. I will stick to my opinion. hi
                      12. -1
                        28 November 2024 12: 24
                        Quote: Essex62
                        So I was not mistaken, mold the fighters into a nationally-oriented bourgeoisie. I will stick to my opinion. hi

                        Who do you call a fighter?
                        Which oligarch gave money to the LPR and DPR?
                        Which oligarchs profited from sanctions?
                        You are like a child - you put a chair, covered it with a tablecloth and announced that it is an airplane. Although a chair is a chair, a tablecloth is a tablecloth and they did not announce themselves as an airplane.
                        But you stubbornly call them an airplane...
                      13. +1
                        28 November 2024 22: 19
                        I repeat, you are stubborn like a child and do not want to admit that the wrestlers, or the clan of judoists, are the main oligarchs in the bourgeois Russian Federation. Successfully, on the wave of the bandit redistribution of the 90-00, due to circumstances that were favorable for them, they privatized the country. There are no differences between them and other oligarchs, in this sense. More dexterous, tough and successful, they broke the competitors and ruled for 20 years, for the benefit of the oligarchic-feudal elite. Well, you, small speculators, get the opportunity to ride on the back of a worker.
                      14. -1
                        29 November 2024 12: 18
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I repeat, you are stubborn like a child and do not want to admit that you are fighters, or Judo clan, are the main oligarchs in the bourgeois Russian Federation. Successfully, on the wave of the bandit redistribution of 90-00, due to circumstances that were favorable for them, they privatized the country.

                        Now think about it - why this clan beats to myself on the head with a sledgehammer??? With all your might - not for real???
                        Why is he planning to seize Crimea and the LPR and DPR? Why is he starting the SVO? Why 08.08.08? Why is he friends with the Taliban? Why is he friends with Iran and North Korea? Why is he cutting off Sakhalin from Japan? Why is he bringing the situation to the point where even peace talks with Japan are impossible? Are we getting involved in Syria? Are we helping Venezuela - although in the logic of the oligarchs We must do everything to make things bad in Venezuela and Iran - is this why oil becomes more expensive???

                        Just think for a minute and you will understand that this is wildly unprofitable and problematic for the oligarchs. Everything has been done in the country to make it painful and extremely uncomfortable for the oligarchs. About 15 sanctions have been imposed on the Russian Federation over the past 20 years - only 000 on the USSR in its ENTIRE history.
                        You don't understand that Crimea with its NATO bases was dangerous for the whole country - but oligarchs?
                        The situation of 2000 or later was advantageous for the oligarchs, just take everything they could and live peacefully in Londongrad...
                        The oligarchs are absolutely not interested in Crimea, or the LPR/DPR, or the Kuril Islands, or Iran, or Venezuela, or the DPRK, or the Taliban, or Syria - they would give it all up easily and casually in exchange for lifting sanctions on themselves personally. And they would be deeply feng shui-shy about the people's discontent - they are not locals, they cannot live here...
                        Think for at least a couple of minutes.
                      15. +1
                        29 November 2024 13: 17
                        It's simple - they were thrown out of the club of the chosen ones, got offended and bit the bit. The fighters have no shortage of character and ambition. Inside Russia, all dissent is stifled in a hundred circles, on these terms they were allowed into the pool, but they were screwed. The guys got offended and decided to show off their toughness. True, mainly to the local elite. They are neither cold nor hot. They watch with a feeling of deep satisfaction as Russians beat up Russians and destroy the infrastructure created by several generations of Soviet people.
                      16. 0
                        29 November 2024 13: 39
                        Of course, they don't want to completely lie down on the Saxons. Even EBN didn't want this, having preserved the triad. Hence the support of the Russian uprising, against the Bandera-NATO occupation in Crimea and Donbass. This is an undeniable plus, which is leveled by an undeniable minus - oligarchic capitalism in Russia, i.e. its entry into the sphere of globalism.
                      17. -1
                        29 November 2024 22: 56
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The boys were offended and decided to show off their coolness. True, mainly to the local elokhtorat.

                        What's cool about it? fool
                        Any action I described above hits them hard in the pocket, but does not increase the coolness of the amount of money.
                        Considering that they have no need to demonstrate anything to the population of the country - where they practically never lived and whose opinion they didn’t care about...
                        They might as well demonstrate this kind of coolness to the population of some Zanzibar...
                      18. +1
                        30 November 2024 10: 21
                        Who lacks it, the fighters? And what about the bonds, the declared social state, sovereignty and so on, so forth? It is impossible not to correspond to them.
                        How come they didn't live in our country? There's only one president. fool
                      19. -1
                        30 November 2024 10: 35
                        Quote: Essex62
                        But what about the bonds, the declared social state, sovereignty and so on and so forth? It is impossible not to correspond to them.
                        How come they didn’t live in our country?

                        Are you completely inadequate??? Or don't you know the basics???
                        All ours OFFICIAL Forbes billionaires lived en masse in the country less 180 days a year - to reduce the amount of taxes.
                        You will worry about the foundations of the country - where you are not do you live?
                        These are two fundamentally different groups, and one is constantly messing up and ruining the business of the other -
                        Quote: your1970
                        The oligarchs are absolutely not interested in Crimea, the LPR and DPR, the Kuril Islands, Iran, Venezuela, the DPRK, the Taliban, or Syria.

                        It's all damages for the oligarchs.
                      20. +1
                        30 November 2024 15: 22
                        Turn on fool ? I'm telling you about the main oligarchs, one is a hero of capital labor, another is the president, and you're telling me about the official Forbes list. stop
                        I translate, wrestlers - a clan of judoists in the era of great redistribution of those who saddled the towers and rule to this day
                      21. 0
                        28 November 2024 11: 50
                        Yes, they seriously screwed over their bourgeois accomplices, but that's why they are the most important clan in the Russian Federation. That's how they see it and that's how they do it. Those who are not happy will go like Khodorkovsky to sew mittens. They will grit their teeth, but endure it so as not to lose everything.
                      22. The comment was deleted.
    4. 0
      27 November 2024 10: 39
      The service is like this
      Ceterum censeo Washingtago delendam esse
  2. +3
    25 November 2024 05: 25
    the time for drawing red lines is over
    Sounds optimistic... Let's hope so.
    1. +1
      25 November 2024 09: 19
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      the time for drawing red lines is over
      Sounds optimistic... Let's hope so.

      We will!
    2. +4
      25 November 2024 10: 30
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      Sounds optimistic... Let's hope so.

      It just sounds like that. In general, it's like 24.02.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX, when someone threatened to show them what real decommunization is.
      And the State Department immediately declared that it does not intend to weaken support for the Ukrainian Reich. And in general, I have a suspicion that the Pin=Dos want to provoke ours to use nuclear weapons. Of course, things did not go according to plan here. It turned out that they uncovered not the TNW on the Iskanders, but a fully-fledged INF complex capable of supplying any corner of Europe. But something tells me that the Americans don't give a damn about old Europe.
      And so, with all this, what can we hope for? An exchange of nuclear weapons with Europe?
    3. +2
      25 November 2024 16: 15
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      Let's hope.

      We've been hoping for 3 years already.
      1. 0
        26 November 2024 01: 02
        Quote: guest
        We've been hoping for 3 years already.

        “The hopes of young men feed,
        The elders are given joy ”

        What else can we do?
  3. +33
    25 November 2024 05: 39
    Frankly speaking, it's all bullshit. Alas, our beloved guarantor, with his eternal Tolstoyanism, has allowed the West to raise the stakes so high that he can no longer simply fold. There's too much at stake. The price of losing is too high. And that means they'll screw us until one of the sides throws down the cards and grabs a Colt.

    The guarantor probably thought that he was playing chess, or at best, professional poker, but with him they were playing pure poker in the most extreme version... And with a marked deck, too...

    This all might have worked a couple of years ago - when our showdown over Ukraine had not yet turned into the Great Crusade against the Evil Empire. But now - an attempt to back down will immediately cause a reasonable question to the appropriate side - why were hundreds of billions spent then, tens of thousands of people ruined, thousands of units of expensive equipment destroyed? Horrible losses in the economy were incurred, an epic number of jobs were lost, long-term profitable trade relations were severed, etc., etc.? And - how should people respond to it? Especially in the West?

    So - alas, my personal forecast is not very comforting. It's too late, no one will come to their senses. Not because they don't want to - they can't. Everything is heading towards the Big Atatu...
    1. +12
      25 November 2024 08: 35
      Quote: paul3390
      There have been terrible losses in the economy, an epic number of jobs have been lost, long-term profitable trade relations have been severed, etc., etc.?

      It seems that this was the plan, everything that could have been done badly was done that way, what opportunities could have been lost were lost, like time. Is this stupidity, dependence, or betrayal?
      Now, either surrender the country when it comes to the end, or change the social system, get out of bourgeois dependence.
      1. +9
        25 November 2024 11: 28
        Only new people can change the country for the better. The current government will not be able to defeat what it created
        1. +6
          25 November 2024 12: 04
          Where can we get new ones? Besides, the first thing they will do is completely clean out the old ones, they will simply have no other choice. And who would voluntarily go for that?
          1. +2
            25 November 2024 13: 37
            "Where can I get new ones?"
            Have you forgotten about the time of heroes? Any participant of SVO, regardless of the severity of the crimes, can become a hero!
      2. -3
        25 November 2024 11: 34
        Quote: Per se.
        Is this stupidity, addiction, or betrayal?

        Neither one nor the other.
        And you themselves you confirm this.
        1)
        Quote: Per se.
        or surrender of the country when it comes to the end
        - for this, absolutely nothing had to be done - the country was completely surrendered in 1990. It was enough to drive along this track, nothing more.
        And any actions on minimal sovereignty are contrary to such surrender.
        Quote: Per se.
        change of social system,
        - and this again contradicts your first thesis about betrayal. Nicolas II and the elite of that time did not know the consequences - we know. Therefore, suspecting the current ones of assisting in changing the system to socialism is the wildest nonsense!!!
        1. +6
          25 November 2024 12: 06
          Quote: your1970
          There was absolutely nothing to do for this - the country was completely surrendered in 1990. It was enough to drive along this track, nothing more.

          Yeltsin compromised everything so much that the country was on the verge of a public explosion, which is why he was replaced. It would not have been possible to continue on this blatant track.
          Quote: your1970
          Therefore, to suspect the current ones of assisting in changing the system to socialism is the wildest nonsense!!!

          Nobody suspects them, it's just that the greed of the "suckers" ruined them. We must give credit to PR and rating pumping, it worked, but in peacetime. I won't argue, it will probably soon be clear "who is who", if we recall the words of one Kremlin chatterbox who sold out the Soviet Union.
          1. -1
            25 November 2024 12: 12
            Quote: Per se.
            Yeltsin compromised everything so much that the country was on the verge of a public explosion, which is why he was replaced. It would not have been possible to continue on this blatant track.

            99℅ on VO, including you - they say that it is still going on the same track. Despite the possible explosion by 1999
            1. +6
              25 November 2024 12: 26
              Quote: your1970
              still driving on the same track
              Yes, Sergey, it is coming. It is coming, only now everything has become more cunning, under fireworks and holidays, "the people are gobbling it up", for now. What can we do, we are the first economy in Europe, and the fifth in the world, and we even raised Russia from its knees, and for some reason the one who brought it down was given a "pantheon"...
              1. -1
                25 November 2024 14: 01
                Quote: Per se.
                Yes, Sergey, it's coming. It's coming, only now everything has become more cunning, under fireworks and holidays, "the people are gobbling it up", for now

                Pfff, people hawala in the 1990s and without fireworks/holidays. Now if in 1962 in Novocherkassk there was a social explosion - then it was real, and by 2000 - 200℅ there would have been no explosion. And now nothing portends - there is no desire among the population to take an axe out of hunger and chop up the family of a neighbor - a bourgeois bloodsucker...

                So the Seven Bankers with Yeltsin would have continued to rule quite calmly - Biden is supposedly ruling and EBN would have continued to rule...
    2. +13
      25 November 2024 09: 21
      And, yes. A. Staver? And how did it all begin? Let me remind you. With the toothlessness, and in most cases, corruption of the Kremlin elite. With complicity with Western scoundrels. With a disdainful attitude towards the interests of their own country. In short. We get both shame and war.
      1. +8
        25 November 2024 11: 55
        ".With a disregard for the interests of one's own country.In short. We get both shame and war"
        If any of the minus-takers forgot, I can remind you how iPhone gave the Barents Sea to the Norwegians. And this is not the only benefit of the government for the country and the people
        1. +1
          25 November 2024 13: 19
          Well, well, it's like he gave away an iPhone. Since the transfer of power to the fucking judo brigade, only they rule. Who would allow this liberal, who has now changed his shoes to hawks, to make such decisions? The hand of a multi-move player is clearly visible. He exchanged it for something of his bourgeois.
          1. +2
            25 November 2024 13: 30
            "well yeah, it's like he gave away his iPhone"
            yes, iphone and gave. he was listed as president of the russian federation then. well, like putin is now laughing
            1. +2
              25 November 2024 13: 33
              Exactly, he was listed. The Constitution hadn't been rewritten yet. It was necessary to somehow create the appearance of legality. They have a democracy, not a dictatorship.
              1. 0
                25 November 2024 13: 35
                "It was necessary to somehow create the appearance of legality."
                and for this it was necessary to give the Barents Sea to the Norwegians? there was no other way?
                1. +1
                  25 November 2024 13: 37
                  No, I'm talking about the leftist presidency of the iPhone. Putin, for one, wasn't supposed to. And he certainly didn't give up the sea, it's too shallow.
                  1. +2
                    25 November 2024 13: 40
                    "No, I'm talking about the leftist presidency of the iPhone guy"
                    Why left? He was elected legally, by a majority of votes, the Central Election Commission confirmed it, everything was fair, as always laughing
                    1. +1
                      25 November 2024 13: 42
                      I don't understand at all, are you joking or serious? So you were chosen? laughing
                      1. +3
                        25 November 2024 13: 45
                        "So you're chosen? laughing"
                        yes, like putin before him, and many times after. what kind of banter is this laughing
                  2. +1
                    25 November 2024 13: 55
                    "floats a bit shallow"
                    he had enough laughing . his signature? well here it is
        2. +5
          25 November 2024 13: 41
          But now he is the first to run to fight... True, without risking his own skin. After all, there is mobilization potential...
          1. +3
            25 November 2024 13: 43
            "After all, there is mobilization potential..."
            He doesn't run anywhere. He just screams like a victim, so that they don't forget that there is such an iPhone, he reminds them of himself. Nobody takes him seriously.
            1. +2
              25 November 2024 13: 52
              Well, he can yell. They'll hear him and stick him somewhere to implement the "hawkish essence". There are some real guys there. They can take this word away from the scumbags, but inside the gangsters they can make him answer for "his words". laughing
              1. +1
                25 November 2024 13: 53
                "Well, he might yell at me. They'll hear him and I'll hit him."
                never. Putin never abandons his own
                1. +5
                  25 November 2024 18: 24
                  Honestly, I hoped that he would trample Shoigu underfoot... Naive
                  1. +3
                    25 November 2024 18: 28
                    "Naive"
                    his caliber is not the same, to trample Shoigu. when Putin carried Sobchak's briefcase, Shoigu was already in the government. that's why he is still free, and he has a sinecure until death. maybe after Putin someone will dig, although it is unlikely, by that time he will already be forgotten, and he will remain with his own laughing
    3. +13
      25 November 2024 10: 28
      Quote: paul3390
      Unfortunately, my personal prognosis is not very encouraging.

      We used to be more independent. We could balance between the West and China. We could stamp our feet here and there. Now we are completely dependent on one country (China). All export-import. And, alas, there is no more balancing. We must admit that China has not yet seriously taken advantage of our dependent position on it. But this is only temporary. This moment will definitely come. And we will have nowhere to go.
      1. +9
        25 November 2024 12: 02
        If I were China, I wouldn't risk being too brazen... Because our top brass is still almost entirely pro-Western. And if we put a lot of pressure on them, they might even accept Trump's offer. In exchange for a part of Tsegabonia and the lifting of personal sanctions, they could go over to his side...

        Especially since China has somehow not shown itself to be a loyal ally... Despite all the kisses of the beloved guarantor with comrade Xi. There is no help to be seen from him, on the contrary - he puts a spoke in the wheel and fleeces at every opportunity. And that means - it is not a sin to abandon such a person, right?
        1. +2
          25 November 2024 13: 33
          "Especially since China has somehow not shown itself to be a loyal ally..."
          China has no allies and never had any, only temporary fellow travelers. And abandoning it is fraught with danger, not with our microeconomics
          1. 0
            25 November 2024 15: 54
            How much will be left of China's economy if instead of a friendly neighbor on its northern border there is a hostile-neutral one? Cutting off all supplies of raw materials and military technologies? And on top of that - there will be a butting of heads with the Western bloc?
            1. +2
              25 November 2024 16: 00
              "instead of a friendly neighbor - it will turn out to be a hostile neutral?"
              and why would it end up there? We are China's fellow travelers, and China is our loyal friend and ally, and if you also buy gas, at any price, you will be a brother. We will sell raw materials to China, no matter how it treats us, and at any price that suits China. And China is already butting heads with the Western bloc, with a declarative,
              True, with the help of the Russian Federation, but he could have managed without it
          2. 0
            25 November 2024 16: 20
            Well, if Trump stamps his foot and forces the Germans to buy gas from us at exorbitant prices, then without our microeconomics and with the straits strewn with missiles, the Chinese economic miracle may turn into a pumpkin. That's what I'm talking about. The Chinese, without allies, already fought a united European army about 124 years ago. It's time for the Chinese to learn the Soviet song about how snow and heat don't matter as long as you have friends with you.
            1. +2
              25 November 2024 16: 31
              "Well, if Trump stamps his foot and forces the Germans to buy gas from us at exorbitant prices,"
              again all hopes on trump? trump will come and restore order, is that it? trump recently said that if this shit happened under him, he would have given the order to bomb moscow. so don't count on trump too much, he will do everything that is beneficial to america. weakening russia is beneficial to america, which means trump will weaken it with all his might, including the war in ukraine. and russia for china is only a source of raw materials at low prices, with a very accommodating seller, nothing more
              1. +2
                25 November 2024 17: 51
                again all hopes on trump?
                Where did you see hope here? There is a very clear price here - to fight China to the last Russian, I am resolutely against it and as for me, a nuclear war looks better, in it at least the Western partners will get it in full, and not just us.
                he would have given the order to bomb Moscow
                so this is the whip so that the Russian Federation does what the West demands - butts heads with China. I can remind you of the negotiations in the summer of 2021 in Geneva, where Biden demanded exactly this, and in return Musk suddenly wrote that it would be nice to open a plant in the Russian Federation, some Polish billionaire promised to throw money at the Baltic NPP. Do you think it’s hard for Trump to do this? It won’t cost him a penny.
                If you think that the main global problem for the US is the Russian Federation, then you have delusions of grandeur. The Russian Federation has been sitting in a corner for 40 years and has no ambitions.
                Russia for China is only a source of raw materials at low prices, with a very accommodating seller, nothing more
                well, on the other hand, today it is the deep rear. And if suddenly tomorrow the Hemars and Typhons start rolling around Siberia, and the supply of resources is prohibited, then it will turn out that China has a shitty foreign policy and Xi is a bad multi-move player, leaving the country without allies
    4. 0
      25 November 2024 10: 37
      Quote: paul3390
      The economy has suffered terrible losses, an epic number of jobs have been lost, long-term profitable trade relations have been severed, etc., etc.? And - how should people respond to this? Especially in the West?

      So - alas, my personal forecast is not very comforting. It's too late, no one will come to their senses. Not because they don't want to - they can't. Everything is heading towards the Big Atatu...

      I would completely agree with you, if not for one BUT.
      The Americans, in fact, have NOTHING to lose, and on the contrary, they have made a lot of money. And considering that they are the ones running all this, in my opinion, there is a chance. Even though they don't give a damn about the EU, our strategic nuclear forces are capable of giving the Americans a hard time. But whether they will dare to make the first disarming strike, that is the question.
      1. +1
        25 November 2024 11: 58
        Yes - but they put a lot of emphasis on the mental component... While they were just quietly shitting on us - it was always possible to quietly roll back. And now - they have loudly declared to the whole world that this is supposedly a holy war for democracy, on the victory in which depends supposedly the future of the planet. And - how can we now explain that they are supposedly going back? This will definitely be regarded by everyone as another defeat for the USA. And they have had quite a few of them lately - they certainly cannot afford another one, and such a loud one...
        1. -1
          25 November 2024 12: 46
          Quote: paul3390
          And now - they have loudly declared to the whole world that this is supposedly a holy war for democracy, on the victory in which depends supposedly the future of the planet. And - how can we now explain that supposedly everything is back? This will definitely be regarded by everyone as another defeat of the USA. And they have had quite a few of them lately - they certainly cannot afford another one, and such a loud one...

          Oh, come on... The Americans themselves don't give a damn about some Ukraine or Russia. Most Americans can't even find such countries on a map. They just want to have Lutz at an acceptable price.
          1. 0
            25 November 2024 13: 15
            Who would ask these simple mattress makers? But the losses of their corporations could be offensive in such a situation.
            1. -1
              25 November 2024 13: 16
              Quote: paul3390
              But the losses of their corporations could be offensive in such a situation.

              What losses to their corporations are we talking about?
          2. -1
            25 November 2024 13: 30
            Don't say, patriotism there sometimes reaches hysteria. And a multi-million mass of armed people can easily unbalance the platform of the printing press. That's why they launched the cunning profiteer Trump, so that he could try to sort things out with fewer losses.
      2. +5
        25 November 2024 12: 19
        Quote: Zoer
        but our strategic nuclear forces are capable of giving the Americans a hard time. But whether they will decide to make the first disarming strike, that's the question.
        Are our henpecked oligarchs a threat to the USA? Is the West, the "hand that feeds" them, the enemy of our fat cats? No, neither one nor the other, the paradox is, why is capitalist Russia, with the "colonialist" Constitution imposed on it, being so pressured? Precisely because of the great Soviet legacy - the strategic nuclear forces. It seems that everything is being done to bleed Russia dry, to empty our arsenals, to leave our army warehouses empty, to ruin the economy, so that we have one last nuclear trump card left... What next? In the name of peace, humanism and tolerance - a gesture of goodwill, for example, our strategic nuclear forces will come under external control. Like, we did what we could... and they will please the owners, and they will not be raised on pitchforks at home. Well, we shouldn’t blow up the world. Why would our rich people, the owners of the country, need the world? They can still survive without their billions, without Russia, the cash cow.
        1. +1
          26 November 2024 01: 34
          Why is capitalist Russia, with its "colonialist" Constitution imposed on it, being so pressured? Precisely because of the great Soviet legacy - the Strategic Nuclear Forces.
          Americans couldn't sleep in the 90s - they desperately needed to crush Yugoslavia, which was not against the West at all, had no nuclear weapons, did not hide any serious wealth, but it was a real pain in the neck. And there are plenty of such examples. Their doctrine is total dominance, as soon as the puppet starts to loosen up - they harshly change it to a more submissive one. They remember that once a small poor colony without resources sent the metropolis to hell, which grabbed a quarter of the land with an all-crushing locomotive, and 150 years later the metropolis lay down under the colony, which had noticeably grown in size, and turned into a group of small islands.
          What can we say about larger countries, we have to keep our ears open so as not to repeat the feat of the British. Great Britain, for example, is the only country in the world that has curtailed its space program; now they only fly on American rockets.
      3. +2
        25 November 2024 13: 49
        "But whether they will decide to make the first disarming strike, that is the question."
        and whether Putin will dare to strike back is an even bigger question laughing
    5. +2
      25 November 2024 11: 55
      Here it is also necessary to take into account that times have changed greatly and now it may not be so easy to stop everything and make peace with the West again to please liberal profiteers and oligarchs, a new patriotically minded layer of society, which has already practically formed and gained strength, may not allow a return to the old liberal pro-Western course to cost us very dearly with all the ensuing consequences.
      1. +6
        25 November 2024 12: 08
        Well, the West can no longer make peace with us without suffering colossal image losses. Now, only our capitulation can satisfy it. Alas, everyone has gone for broke.
        1. +2
          25 November 2024 12: 12
          I agree that no one is going to give in to this confrontation, since the stakes are very high and any concession would be a defeat.
          1. +1
            25 November 2024 12: 16
            There is a subtle point here - the West is very good at presenting its defeats as victories. If it wants to, of course. And this desire - is what needs to be formed. But not with our current toothless methods.
        2. 0
          25 November 2024 13: 02
          Quote: paul3390
          Well, the West can no longer make peace with us without suffering colossal image losses. Now, only our capitulation can satisfy it. Alas, everyone has gone for broke.

          So far, only bluff and bargaining. And also, the West has always been able to back down in the face of mutual destruction. And so far, globally, they have nothing to lose. I'm talking about the US. Why would they get involved in a nuclear weapons exchange? Only if they are confident in the complete success of their GBU, and we will not be able to respond, or will respond minimally, that they will be able to suppress the missile defense, or will not cause them significant damage. But there is a nuance here. Firstly, in my opinion, it is not so easy to conduct a successful GBU in such a huge country, with such huge strategic nuclear forces. Secondly, there is China, which is unlikely to remain on the sidelines, and it is clear that it will finish off the US, with its empty arsenals.
          1. +2
            25 November 2024 13: 13
            Why would they get involved in a nuclear weapons exchange?

            That is, if they are sure that we will go for it. Which, in fact, is far from obvious yet.
          2. 0
            27 November 2024 02: 15
            China won't even scratch itself. They won't finish off the mattresses. They themselves are not capable of building such a global model, where it is necessary to constantly bend the poorly bending Saxons and Slavs. Traders. And during the exchange of nuclear weapons, they will certainly get it.
            1. 0
              27 November 2024 09: 20
              Quote: Essex62
              China won't even scratch itself. They won't finish off the mattresses.

              Quote: Essex62
              And when exchanging nuclear weapons, they will definitely get hit.

              laughing Aaa, i.e. the Chinese will just silently watch as it flies towards them!
              Do you even understand what you said? wassat
              1. 0
                27 November 2024 09: 50
                I said that in our mess with mattresses, they initially do not want to participate, but they will have to because they will not sit it out. The main thing is that they are not capable of being a hegemon. They are riding perfectly well on the Anglo-Saxon cart, as they used to ride on the USSR cart, and then suddenly they changed their shoes.
                1. 0
                  27 November 2024 10: 21
                  Quote: Essex62
                  but they will have to, because they won’t be able to sit it out.

                  Well, that's understandable from the start. That's why they'll hit the US, because they're the ones who pose a threat to China.
                  Quote: Essex62
                  They ride perfectly on the Anglo-Saxon cart, just like they used to ride on the USSR cart, and then suddenly they changed their shoes.

                  Now they are not riding on this cart. They have their own good one. China needs the USA now only as the fattest market for its goods. Let's see what Trump will do with this market. And how China will respond.
                  1. 0
                    27 November 2024 12: 03
                    They don't have their own, a niche in the global Masonic project. And the market is not only the US, the entire Anglo-Saxon system. The Chinese are firmly in it and will not jump off, and there is nowhere to jump off. Consumption in the West is the best. It will stall, the product will have to be driven to the warehouse and then the Chinese miracle will be finished. The West gave birth to them, it will kill them.
                    I repeat - they are only traders, unlike the Saxons, they do not know how to gnaw out their own with iron.
                    1. 0
                      27 November 2024 14: 11
                      Quote: Essex62
                      And the market is not only the US, the entire Anglo-Saxon system. The Chinese are firmly in it and will not jump off, and there is nowhere to jump off. Consumption in the West is the best. It will die out, the product will have to be driven to the warehouse and then the Chinese miracle will be finished.

                      If the Naglosak market dies out, another one will grow. It's only a matter of time.
                      Quote: Essex62
                      I repeat - they are only traders, unlike the Saxons, they do not know how to gnaw out their own with iron.

                      Calling the Chinese traders is at the very least incorrect. They are more like workers. Traders - that's us now. But as for fighting, they didn't really fight, that's true. But that doesn't mean anything in terms of exchanging nuclear strikes.
                      1. 0
                        27 November 2024 20: 09
                        The workers are a million, with a long tail, serving the interests of the Chinese "elite". Where party members and the military are included. The rest are traders and their servants. They are no different from us in this. Except that they call themselves communists, turncoats and the presence of a working class there, a class that does not recognize itself. Rather, slaves - ants and agree with this.
                      2. 0
                        27 November 2024 22: 55
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The workers are a million, with a long tail, serving the interests of the Chinese "elite". Including party members and military personnel. The rest are traders and their servants.

                        Ahh, well, there are probably monkeys behind the machines there, churning out products for the whole world!
                        What are you talking about, honestly...
                        Quote: Essex62
                        They are no different from us in this regard.

                        We have a pump-and-sell country. There is an industrial economy, with a population of 1,5 billion, more than half of whom are employed in this very industry.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Unless they call themselves communists, turncoats and the presence of a working class there, a class that does not recognize itself. Rather, slaves - ants and they agree with this.

                        I wonder who our working class considered itself to be, and what kind of communists were they, since they screwed up such a country, unlike them.
                      3. 0
                        28 November 2024 01: 45
                        Why monkeys, where did I say that? Ordinary workers, though with Eastern specifics. Ready to toil away for a pittance. A pittance, a pittance, year after year, 12-15 hours a day, and you'll see that you'll make it in life (those 350 million of the Chinese owners and these workers). There's no point in citing the official salary figures of their workers. They're "official". Like with us, everyone is already middle class.

                        They have more than a billion in this industry. The rest are elite. Buy-sell and service, well and party gods.

                        The working class considered itself the hegemon and celebrated this event without hesitation. When it woke up, it turned out that it was no longer a hegemon and not even a worker.
                      4. 0
                        28 November 2024 10: 07
                        Quote: Essex62
                        A penny, a penny, year after year, 12-15 hours a day, and you'll get into the world (those 350 million of the Chinese owners and these workers). There's no point in citing the official salary figures of their workers. They're "official". Like with us, everyone is already middle class.

                        You are reasoning with outdated templates. People there have not worked for a bowl of rice for a long time. Even our wages in the industry lag behind their salaries. That is why many of our manufacturers are moving assembly lines to the Russian Federation from China.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        They have more than a billion in this industry.

                        So this is 80-90% of the working population!!! What are you talking about? In our remaining industry, God willing, 10-15% are employed. The rest are profiteers-managers and other servants of the masters of life.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The working class considered itself the hegemon and celebrated this event without hesitation. When it woke up, it turned out that it was no longer a hegemon and not even a worker.

                        Such a great hegemon, he blew it all for nothing, and in a very short historical period. negative
                      5. 0
                        28 November 2024 22: 34
                        Well, actually, the working class is different from the Chinese one. Their socialism and Marxism-Leninism are peculiar, with a whiff of ancient Chinese empires. In all its periods. At least under Mao, at least today. Such a convenient screen, to make ants work.

                        Well, that's how such a hegemon was formed, outside of class struggle. It blew up both the hegemony and the country. request
                      6. 0
                        29 November 2024 10: 28
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Such a convenient screen, to force ants to work.

                        Was it any different under Soviet communism? The only difference is HOW to force and WHAT FOR. In China, for example, they force gently. And for the development of the power of the ENTIRE country, not for a handful of the ruling class. An elite without a country is a bunch of sufferers who eventually become paupers. Which is what some of our oligarchs have demonstrated now, and the entire tsarist nobility 100 years ago.
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Well, that's how such a hegemon was formed, outside of class struggle. It blew up both the hegemony and the country.

                        And it couldn't be any other way. Living in a constant class struggle - well, that's some kind of madness. Moreover, Stalin himself had the goal of destroying the class struggle, and he succeeded. And in your opinion, this led to the collapse of the hegemon. Not a viable model, however))))
                      7. 0
                        29 November 2024 10: 55
                        We didn't have communism, we had socialism. And there was no such attitude towards the working man. Judging by unofficial information, they force the worker there, squeezing out all the juices and unwinding the sinews, worse than in the era of the formation of capitalism in Europe.

                        You are deeply mistaken. Read what IVS writes about the intensification of class struggle in the conditions of building a socialist state.
                        I will say for myself that only a tireless struggle against bourgeois manifestations can be the basis for the hegemony of the proletariat. Simply put - strangle the profiteer always and everywhere. As well as thieves and corrupt officials, and do not rely only on punitive organs.
                        If this is not done, the parasite wins, which is what we are seeing today.
      2. +3
        25 November 2024 13: 52
        "a new patriotically minded layer of society that has already practically formed and gained strength"
        What kind of layer do you mean? Any layer only gains the strength that the vertical allows it to. If it's slightly to the side, it's either a prison or a grenade on an airplane. Do you need examples?
    6. +3
      25 November 2024 15: 38
      The economy has suffered terrible losses, an epic number of jobs have been lost, long-term profitable trade relations have been severed, etc., etc.? And - how should people respond to this? Especially in the West?


      Where in the West did all this happen? Do you have data on how many jobs were lost in the West and the US in particular due to anti-Russian sanctions?
  4. +14
    25 November 2024 05: 47
    I think this is the last warning...
    Which one? With Kursk, everything is clear, it was another HPP. To lure elite units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to Kursk, in order to grind them there, which is actually what is happening, by the New Year... into dust... Here's the question.. A long time ago, the Russian Prosecutor's Office issued an arrest warrant for Tymoshenko, the same witch with a scythe who stole billions in gas, was she caught, arrested or understood and forgiven?
    1. +1
      25 November 2024 14: 10
      Quote: parusnik
      question...A long time ago, the Russian Prosecutor's Office issued an arrest warrant for Tymoshenko, the same witch with a scythe who stole billions in gas. Was she caught, arrested, or understood and forgiven?

      So, she was accused of purchasing gas from the Russian Federation at prices that were inflated for Ukraine while she was Prime Minister.
      And not our Prosecutor General's Office, but the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office.
      "Not poker, but blackjack.
      Not a Zhiguli, but 100 rubles
      Not won, but lost.. " ©
    2. +1
      25 November 2024 19: 12
      Quote: parusnik
      Here's the question... A long time ago, the Russian Prosecutor's Office issued an arrest warrant for Tymoshenko, that same witch with a scythe who stole billions in gas. Was she caught, arrested, or understood and forgiven?

      Are you not aware that Tymoshenko showed up for questioning 20 years ago, after which the arrest warrant was cancelled? Even your Radio Liberty reported it. Why repeat it over and over again?!
  5. +3
    25 November 2024 05: 56
    Let's hope that either the winter will be cold, or the wind will stop blowing. But all these Europeans are bastards and "they'll die......." Something like that.
  6. +12
    25 November 2024 05: 58
    The Red Banner Order of the Red Banner of Labor felt-tip pen plant named after S. Lavrov works perfectly. The capacity loading is contracted for many years ahead, so take a breather
    1. 0
      25 November 2024 11: 56
      "The Red Banner, Order of the Red Banner of Labor, felt-tip pen plant named after S. Lavrov is working perfectly. The capacity utilization is contracted for many years ahead, so take a breather"
      and I read that he is transferring production facilities to China, it seems to be cheaper there laughing
  7. +10
    25 November 2024 06: 16
    The author is immediately recognizable from the article's announcement
  8. -1
    25 November 2024 06: 24
    It would be logical, in order to consolidate the effect of developing a conditioned reflex in the European militant elite, to repeat the blow with the "hazelnut".
    Conduct the next strike on diplomatic and representative buildings of NATO countries located on the territory of Ukraine.
    So that representatives of hostile
    countries for Russia were afraid to appear in Ukraine, so that a business trip to Kyiv would cause them animal fear.
    1. +1
      25 November 2024 06: 28
      To strike diplomatic and representative buildings of NATO countries
      These are partners, albeit unfriendly ones.
      1. 0
        25 November 2024 12: 03
        Well, you wouldn’t wish such “partners” on your sworn enemy.
    2. -1
      25 November 2024 09: 23
      Quote: AA17
      It would be logical, in order to consolidate the effect of developing a conditioned reflex in the European militant elite, to repeat the blow with the "hazelnut".
      Conduct the next strike on diplomatic and representative buildings of NATO countries located on the territory of Ukraine.
      So that representatives of hostile
      countries for Russia were afraid to appear in Ukraine, so that a business trip to Kyiv would cause them animal fear.

      Support.
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      25 November 2024 07: 15
      Sometimes it's useful to look into the past. smile
    2. -4
      25 November 2024 09: 30
      Quote: Wildcat
      run into the taiga and negotiate with the bear owner about "sitting out for a couple of years near a source of clean water."

      And you? Where will you run, comrade analyst? You don't believe in our Victory? Or do you have your own "our Victory"? Is this written in the manual?
      Every word is checked, punctuation marks are placed... A manual, nothing less))
      1. +2
        25 November 2024 10: 49
        Quote: BecmepH
        You don't believe in our Victory? Or do you have your own "our Victory"?

        Only religious people can believe. With this, please go to church. You can even go to Channel 1 to see Skabeeva and Solovyov.
        But the eyes, ears and common sense tell us that there will be no victory, but some kind of fixed match, a la Minsk-3 or Istanbul-2. Well, or they will all die, and we will go to heaven. And that is if the chess player still shows willpower at the last moment, and he gives the command to launch missiles at the USA and Europe. Or else we will all simply go to heaven...
        This talker spoke too much into the atmosphere.
        1. -5
          25 November 2024 12: 03
          Quote: Zoer
          Only religious people can believe.

          Well, why not? You are narrow-minded.
          I am an atheist. But I believe in Victory, kindness, decency. And you only believe in evil?
          Quote: Zoer
          But the eyes, ears and common sense tell us that there will be no victory,
          I agree. You won't have it. And where would it come from, if you've licked everything from the West and are looking into its mouth? You don't have any thoughts of your own.
          And then, if the chess player still shows willpower at the last moment, and he gives the command to launch missiles at the USA and Europe.
          Again, you're provoking me according to the manual))
          This talker spoke too much into the atmosphere.
          That's true. And your talker was also slapping his junk on the keys
          1. +1
            25 November 2024 12: 54
            Quote: BecmepH
            Well, why not? You are narrow-minded.
            I am an atheist. But I believe in Victory, kindness, decency. And you only believe in evil?

            I don't believe in anything. I can see and distinguish between good and evil. Decency and corruption. Brainlessness and intelligence.
            Quote: BecmepH
            I agree. You won't have it. And where would it come from, if you've licked everything from the West and are looking into its mouth? You don't have any thoughts of your own.

            Well, you have shown your stupidity. Somehow to classify everyone who calls a spade a spade and criticizes the thieves' vertical as pro-Westerners, this is certainly the height of intelligence. But such intellectuals cannot explain how so many thieves have dug in at our Ministry of Defense, and why the guarantor constantly drones on about peace talks, when Ze-clown clearly sends him away with these talks.
            Quote: BecmepH
            Again, you're provoking me according to the manual))

            Again, highly intellectual nonsense)))
            Quote: BecmepH
            That's true. And your talker was also slapping his junk on the keys

            Yes, it's more likely yours again. Your sunny face never officially declared him persona non grata. Haven't guessed why? So that there would be someone to make a deal with.
            1. -5
              25 November 2024 16: 44
              Quote: Zoer
              Your sun-faced one never officially declared him persona non grata.

              Well, you screwed up))
              Again, you're provoking me according to the manual))
              Again, highly intellectual nonsense)))

              You are rushing about from impotence and anger. Decide, am I, or am I highly intelligent))
              Well, now you've shown your brainlessness.
              When a person has no arguments, he switches to personalities and starts insulting)) There are many of you like that on VO. You feel the end, that's why you started stirring))
              1. +2
                25 November 2024 17: 29
                Quote: BecmepH
                When a person has no arguments, he gets personal and starts insulting)) There are a lot of you like him on VO.

                Well, you screwed up! Your forelock came off!))) And as per the classic "And why do we deserve this!?"
                Quote: BecmepH
                Have you licked everything from the West and are you looking into its mouth? You don't even have any thoughts of your own.
                That is, not a personal attack? Well, well... And now you're whining about some personal attacks. Ehh, the Uryakl-PUtriot has become a bit petty. negative
                P.S.: You still haven't answered how it happened that almost ALL deputy defense ministers turned out to be thieves and robbed our army and navy of billions?
                It's probably because there are so many arguments that they've kept their mouths shut. Or is there nothing said about this in your hurray-methodology? laughing
                1. -1
                  26 November 2024 06: 50
                  Quote: Zoer
                  So this isn't a personal attack? Well, well... And now you're complaining about some personal attacks.

                  You started - I mirrored. When living with wolves, howl like a wolf. Do you think that your insults will be answered with a kind word?))
                  You still haven't answered how it happened that almost ALL deputy defense ministers turned out to be thieves and robbed our army and navy of billions?
                  Well, you personally didn't ask me this question)) I'll say right away that I don't understand why people steal so much. I've always said that the same kind of deputies make the same kind of boss. It's funny to think that the boss doesn't see what his assistants are doing.
                  Do you know why?
                  it turns out that almost ALL deputy defense ministers turned out to be thieves and robbed our army and navy of billions?
                  1. +1
                    26 November 2024 10: 31
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    You started - I mirrored. When living with wolves, howl like a wolf. Do you think that your insults will be answered with a kind word?))

                    Please quote where I started in your direction?
                    I sent you your FIRST personal attack. I can repeat it.
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    I agree. You won't have it. And where would it come from, if you've licked everything from the West and are looking into its mouth? You don't have any thoughts of your own.

                    You wrote this yesterday, 25.11.2024 at 12:03. Before this moment, my quote with a transition to personalities, please come to the studio...
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    Well, you personally didn't ask me this question)) I'll say right away that I don't understand why people steal so much. I've always said that the same kind of deputies make the same kind of boss. It's funny to think that the boss doesn't see what his assistants are doing.

                    I asked. You didn't notice... About, like priest, like parish, absolutely CORRECT!!!
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    Do you know why?

                    Yes, I know. Because these people and their successors destroyed the USSR precisely for personal enrichment. That is why the vertical of power is built on one basic principle. On personal enrichment, and it does not matter by what methods. Creative, or appropriative, with creation on minimums, on the residual principle. That is, the whole system does not work to create benefits for the state, but to maintain its own existence. And at the same time, smart and responsible people capable of working for results are not needed. Such people, on the contrary, are harmful and dangerous for such a system. Such a system needs mediocre, but loyal people. And for their loyalty they are ALLOWED to suckle at the trough. This is called a system with negative selection. That is exactly THAT is why we have not completed a single national project. There are no results in industry, science, education, medicine, or demography. That is why the indigenous population of the Russian Federation is dying out and being replaced by Asians. That is why the West successfully forced us into a conflict with the Banderites they created, with the full connivance of our authorities. That is why the SVO has been going on for 3 years already, and it is not at all clear how it will end. But certainly not with the complete capitulation of the West and the 404th.
                    1. -1
                      26 November 2024 12: 00
                      Quote: Zoer
                      Please quote where I started in your direction?

                      Well, now you've shown your brainlessness.
                      12.54 yesterday
                      You write everything correctly about the USSR. I still love my Motherland, the USSR.
                      But!!!
                      Sergey Bodrov: "During war, you can't speak ill of your own. Never. Even if they are wrong. Even if your country is wrong during war, you mustn't speak ill of it. This is a very old, simple and primitive principle, but it is so. When war is not threatening, when the war is over - then yes, you can say: this was wrong, and that was wrong, let's try to make sure that doesn't happen in the future."
                      I am guided by these wise words of a young man.
                      Perhaps you also want a bright future for our Russia, but we speak different languages. Therefore, I see no point in "butting heads" with you any longer. Your nerves are acting up. Again, you will stoop to insults and pretend that you did not notice))
                      All the best!
                      1. 0
                        26 November 2024 12: 38
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        Well, now you've shown your brainlessness.
                        12.54 yesterday

                        Are you really...? Or are you kidding?
                        You wrote this yesterday, 25.11.2024 in 12:03. Before this moment, my quote with a transition to personalities, please come to the studio..

                        Is everything okay with your head and eyes? fool Your 12:03 is almost an HOUR EARLIER than my 12:54. It looks like you have a complete mess with cause and effect relationships. And that explains a lot.
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        Sergei Bodrov: “During war, you can’t speak badly about your own people.

                        These of yours are not waging any war. SVO, cowardly SVO.
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        This is a very old, simple and primitive principle, but it is so. When war is not a threat, when the war is over - then yes, you can say: this was not so, and that was not so, let's try to make sure that this does not happen in the future."

                        In our country it has ALWAYS been like this. Which ultimately led to this SVO. And nothing will change. In the best case, they will sign a deal, announce the achievement of all goals and a great victory, hand out medals to themselves, and will continue to suck and rob our Motherland.
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        Perhaps you also want a bright future for our Russia, but we speak different languages.

                        It's impossible, but that's exactly how it is. That's why I can't stand the ghouls who brought the country to all this.
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        Again, stoop to insults and pretend you didn't notice))

                        The classic "And what's in it for us!?" Yes, yes...
                      2. +1
                        26 November 2024 16: 17
                        Quote: Zoer
                        You wrote this yesterday, 25.11.2024 at 12:03. Before this moment, my quote with the transition to personalities, please come to the studio..

                        Yes. These are my words. I reread them. I agree, it sounds incorrect. But, I had no intention of insulting or offending you. I apologize.
                      3. +2
                        26 November 2024 16: 25
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        But I had no intention of offending or hurting you.

                        Mmm ...
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        I apologize.

                        I'm not vindictive. Accepted!
                        In turn, I also admit my harshness. Not out of malice, but out of irritation, in response.
                        hi
                      4. +1
                        26 November 2024 16: 28
                        Quote: Zoer
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        But I had no intention of offending or hurting you.

                        Mmm ...
                        Quote: BecmepH
                        I apologize.

                        I'm not vindictive. Accepted!
                        In turn, I also admit my harshness. Not out of malice, but out of irritation, in response.
                        hi

                        Accepted!
      2. +5
        25 November 2024 12: 08
        "Is this written in the manual? Every word is checked, punctuation marks are placed..." What, now literate speech and writing are the main sign of an enemy? Don't you admit that despite all the government's concern for education, there are still literate people in our country? He wrote the word existentialism without mistakes - that means he is an enemy! Is that what you think?
        1. -6
          25 November 2024 16: 57
          Quote: ZloyKot
          "Is this written in the manual? Every word is checked, punctuation marks are placed..." What, now literate speech and writing are the main sign of an enemy? Don't you admit that despite all the government's concern for education, there are still literate people in our country? He wrote the word existentialism without mistakes - that means he is an enemy! Is that what you think?

          You yourself write with mistakes, but you teach me))
          Of course, there are many literate people. But why such abstruse words? Don't you think that this word was copied from a manual? Don't you think that the text was simply copied?))
          You were outraged by my assumption that the opponent is guided by a manual (by the way, he did not refute this with a single word), but you were not affected by the fact that he insults the president. The president of Russia. The president of your country! Or is the Russian Federation not your country?))
          It always gets to me when anyone, I repeat, anyone is insulted behind his back. If he meets VVP, what will he say to him?)) Will he say all this dirt to his face? Yes, of course not! Why then act like a hero in the virtual world?
          It's all stupid. And these insults from the couch say a lot about the person and his defenders.
          I myself have never been a Putinist. But now I am for him. He started the SVO, he must finish it. And we must support him if we want victory. Support him, and not insult him, not throw mud at him, and not whine "Everything is lost..."
          1. +2
            25 November 2024 17: 33
            "You write with mistakes yourself, but you teach me"
            No one is immune from mistakes, I write a lot, my fingers are thick, the keys are small, but I don't violate them consciously. If it's not too much trouble, give me an example of my mistakes. I respect my language too much not to know it. And I don't teach anyone to learn it, I just want to say that the word "write" in this context is correctly written as "write". But that's just by the way. laughing
            "Why such abstruse words? Don't you think that this word was copied from the manual?"
            what word seemed abstruse to you, I always tried to write simply, so that everyone could understand. But don't you admit that manuals exist only in your inflamed brain?
            "It didn't bother you that he insulted the president."
            So what? No one insulted anyone, and the president is just a bureaucrat, and he doesn't work very well, and he is always elected in some murky way. I didn't take an oath to love him, I'm not obliged to do that. My respect must be earned. He didn't earn it. Don't confuse the president with the motherland. These are completely different concepts, although, I see, not for you.
            1. +2
              25 November 2024 17: 49
              Quote: ZloyKot
              So what? No one insulted anyone, and the president is just a bureaucrat, and he doesn't work very well, and he is always elected in some murky way. I didn't take an oath to love him, I'm not obliged to do that. My respect must be earned. He didn't earn it. Don't confuse the president with the motherland. These are completely different concepts, although, I see, not for you.

              That's right !!! hi
              And I see that the current rulers of our country have simply plundered it and are destroying it with their idiotic temporary policy. And to believe sacredly that the West will fall on its knees before us tomorrow, and we will celebrate a complete victory over the Khinzir, well, that's just wild nonsense, a fanatical religion. Nothing more.
              1. -1
                26 November 2024 06: 56
                Quote: Zoer
                Well, and to believe sacredly that the West will fall on its knees before us tomorrow, and we will celebrate a complete victory over the Khinzir, well, that’s just wild nonsense, a fanatical religion.

                You want to kneel before the West, I see)) And it doesn’t matter - from behind or from the front.
                1. +1
                  26 November 2024 10: 33
                  Quote: BecmepH
                  You want to kneel before the West, I see)) And it doesn’t matter - from behind or from the front.

                  And did we ever get up from those knees? For now I see that we are turning from west to east, in the parterre pose. fool
                  1. 0
                    26 November 2024 12: 03
                    Quote: Zoer
                    in the parterre position.

                    So this is a fight!
                    And what do you wish for?))
                    1. 0
                      26 November 2024 12: 52
                      Quote: BecmepH
                      So this is a fight!

                      laughing Good joke, funny!!!
                      Where have you seen wrestling on the same ground?
            2. 0
              26 November 2024 07: 02
              Quote: ZloyKot
              If it's not too much trouble, give me an example of my mistakes.

              It's difficult. You have mistakes in every line. You even write the word "Motherland" with a small letter. Why? Because of illiteracy?))
              1. 0
                26 November 2024 19: 28
                "You even write the word Motherland with a small letter. Why? Because of illiteracy?))"
                It's much simpler - my CapsLock key doesn't work laughing
                "It's difficult"
                I understand, "it's hard to look for a black cat in a dark room"
                1. 0
                  27 November 2024 06: 40
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  It's much simpler - my CapsLock key doesn't work

                  What is this key for? There is a Shift key))
                  And if you put a space after the "dot", then the capital letter (uppercase) itself flies out))
        2. -1
          25 November 2024 17: 30
          Quote: ZloyKot
          He wrote the word existentialism without mistakes - that means he is an enemy! Is that what you think?

          There is no point in arguing with a slob there))) There is a manual of the brain, and enemies are all around...
          1. 0
            25 November 2024 17: 43
            "There's a manual for the brain"
            Yes, it is a widespread disease and there is almost no cure
          2. 0
            26 November 2024 06: 57
            Quote: Zoer
            Quote: ZloyKot
            He wrote the word existentialism without mistakes - that means he is an enemy! Is that what you think?

            There is no point in arguing with a slob there))) There is a manual of the brain, and enemies are all around...

            You liked the word "methodology" addressed to you so much that you never part with this word)) Come up with something of your own, my dear))
            1. 0
              26 November 2024 10: 34
              Quote: BecmepH
              You liked the word "methodology" addressed to you so much that you never part with this word now))

              Yeah, as they say - hit yourself in the face with your own lard! laughing
              1. -1
                26 November 2024 12: 06
                Quote: Zoer
                Yeah, as they say

                The word "it is said", in this context, is written without a soft sign))
                1. 0
                  26 November 2024 13: 17
                  Quote: BecmepH
                  The word "it is said", in this context, is written without a soft sign))

                  And this is written to me by a person who is confused about the clock readings and the chronology of events!))) good
  10. -9
    25 November 2024 06: 59
    I wonder when the Banderites will storm Bankova? And that's enough about the topic, that there are Ukrainians there, there is no such nationality, the embroidered shirt, forelock and moustache are not national characteristics, the embroidered shirt is worn by Slavs and others, the problems are in the heads of the Slavic people who found themselves on the outskirts of Russia am
    1. +1
      26 November 2024 13: 19
      Quote: air wolf
      problems in the minds of the Slavic people who found themselves on the outskirts of Russia am

      That's right. But the whole problem is that many of them have such problems in their heads that it's easier to rip those heads off and throw them away than to treat them.
  11. +20
    25 November 2024 07: 05
    Everything is as usual: the President declares; the Foreign Ministry condemns; the Ministry of Defense is astonished; the State Duma accepts; the Investigative Committee initiates; the Ministry of Internal Affairs checks; the State Defense Ministry threatens. There are no results, but everyone is busy.
    1. 0
      25 November 2024 12: 10
      "There are no results, but at least everyone is busy."
      no words! drinks , I applaud while standing!
  12. +1
    25 November 2024 07: 06
    Quote: AA17
    It would be logical, in order to consolidate the effect of developing a conditioned reflex in the European militant elite, to repeat the blow with the "hazelnut".
    Conduct the next strike on diplomatic and representative buildings of NATO countries located on the territory of Ukraine.
    So that representatives of hostile
    countries for Russia were afraid to appear in Ukraine, so that a business trip to Kyiv would cause them animal fear.


    It would be logical to have reliable information about the destruction of Yuzhmash to begin with. So far I see partial destruction of several buildings.
    I have not found such information. Do you have such information? Share it.
    1. -2
      25 November 2024 07: 19
      Do you have such information? Share it.

      A 30-meter crater is circulating in the media smile, at the same time they talk about minor damage.
      The Ukrainian Armed Forces allowed foreign journalists to see the remains of Oreshnik... let's see what they say.
      1. -2
        25 November 2024 07: 36
        Still, the Oreshnik without a special warhead is more of a "media" weapon. It is impossible to adjust the missile in flight, it flies on "mechanics". There is some kind of gyrocompass, a clock, a computer that calculates the flight trajectory already in flight based on the initial data - coordinates, temperature, pressure, wind force and direction, mass... But over time, most of the data changes and it is impossible to make adjustments in flight. It makes sense to shoot at targets such as cities and "Yuzhmash" with an area of ​​hundreds of hectares, in any case, you will hit somewhere. For a missile with a special warhead, this does not matter.
        1. Egg
          +1
          25 November 2024 08: 24
          Quote: Vladimir M
          It makes sense to shoot at targets such as cities and "Yuzhmash" with an area of ​​hundreds of hectares, in any case you will hit somewhere

          Well, why throw it on the fan so brazenly? Everyone saw the video, judging by it, it fell very tightly.
          You need to work more subtly, more subtly...
          1. +2
            25 November 2024 08: 30
            What does it have to do with the cluster, what was the deviation of the center of this "cluster"? The warheads separated and "lay" clustered, that's how it should have been, it couldn't have been any other way.
            1. Egg
              +1
              25 November 2024 08: 44
              you should define your concepts, otherwise you lay down in a bunch or not in a bunch... and how far from the center you imagined...
              1. 0
                25 November 2024 08: 56
                Once again, the missile falls "vertically", almost at a right angle. The warheads are separated, where does "not a tight cluster" come from?
                Since the missile flies on "mechanics" and cannot be controlled in flight, there is a KVO (it always exists, the only question is what), which does not matter when using a special warhead. I do not know what the KVO was, I think the bourgeoisie will determine it.
                It’s good that the partners were practically shown the existence of such weapons.
                1. Egg
                  +2
                  25 November 2024 09: 01
                  Quote: Vladimir M
                  the rocket falls "vertically", almost at a right angle.

                  I see, a humanities student...
                  "vertically" "almost at a right angle" the rocket never falls, NEVER
                  There are more than enough factors influencing the deviation.
                  Well, and here's the kicker: the separation of the warheads does not occur at the final section of the trajectory, and certainly not 5-10 seconds before hitting the target.
                  So what you've scribbled here is exactly... exactly the substance that you and those like you love to throw at the fan.
                  1. -1
                    25 November 2024 09: 14
                    For a "non-humanitarian", if the missile reached the warhead separation point with an "error", the warheads will still "fall in a group", according to the flight mission. It cannot be any other way. hi
                    1. Egg
                      -1
                      25 November 2024 09: 29
                      Quote: Vladimir M
                      the warheads will still "fall in a group" according to the flight mission.
                      belay
                      Quote: Vladimir M
                      It is impossible to correct the rocket in flight, it flies on "mechanics". There is some kind of gyrocompass, a clock,.....a computer that calculates the flight trajectory already in flight based on the initial data - coordinates, temperature, pressure, wind force and direction, mass.....

                      You just claimed that the flight is not corrected, so where does the accuracy come from?
                      1. 0
                        25 November 2024 09: 38
                        Are you kidding? I think I wrote it in Russian - since the missile's flight is not corrected (for "non-humanitarians" - corrections are not entered into the flight mission on the flight trajectory), the missile enters with an error at the point of separation of the warheads. This will be the KVO. The warheads are separated and the warheads "fall vertically". Why would there suddenly be "lack of accuracy" here. hi
                      2. -2
                        25 November 2024 11: 06
                        Quote: Vladimir M
                        the missile arrives with an error at the point of separation of the warheads. This will be the KVO. The warheads are separated and the warheads "fall vertically". Why would there suddenly be "inaccuracy" here?

                        No, not exactly. At the stage of BB spreading, astrocorrection and flight adjustment, aiming, if you will, occurs. Then, at the stage of descent and the final section of the flight, your "mechanics" works, if the terminology is correct, then the inertial guidance system (the same angular velocity and acceleration sensors). And it is precisely this inertial system that cannot provide a CEP more accurate than tens of meters. hi
                      3. 0
                        25 November 2024 12: 52
                        Thank you for correcting me, I expressed myself incorrectly. I wanted to say that the ICBM (let's call it that) does not have "communication" with its satellites and its detection and guidance stations (this is their advantage, but the accuracy suffers, which is of no importance for special ammunition) unlike other classes of missiles and it is impossible to achieve the same accuracy even with astrocorrection as with satellites, at least because there are hundreds if not thousands of satellites. Still, I think that the "main error" in location is obtained in the space section of the missile's flight. The error will be smaller for separating blocks, there the speed is higher and the range is shorter. hi
                  2. -1
                    25 November 2024 09: 36
                    Quote: Telur
                    Quote: Vladimir M
                    the rocket falls "vertically", almost at a right angle.

                    I see, a humanities student...
                    "vertically" "almost at a right angle" the rocket never falls, NEVER
                    There are more than enough factors influencing the deviation.
                    Well, and here's the kicker: the separation of the warheads does not occur at the final section of the trajectory, and certainly not 5-10 seconds before hitting the target.
                    So what you've scribbled here is exactly... exactly the substance that you and those like you love to throw at the fan.

                    He doesn't know that we know that he's an amateur.
                    1. Egg
                      -2
                      25 November 2024 09: 42
                      Quote: BecmepH

                      He doesn't know that we know that he's an amateur.

                      yes, it's funny how hardened humanists get into technical issues and try to imagine something there... they've filled everything, at work too... I can't stand it...
                      Unlike techies, knowledge is not required, just talking is enough.
                      1. 0
                        25 November 2024 11: 07
                        Quote: Telur
                        Unlike techies, knowledge is not required, just talking is enough.

                        Well, you're clearly not a techie either. A programmer, at best)))
                      2. 0
                        25 November 2024 13: 09
                        "Unlike techies, knowledge is not required, it is enough to just chat.2
                        Ignorance of the laws of physics frees one from doubts laughing
          2. +4
            25 November 2024 11: 01
            Quote: Telur
            Well, why throw it on the fan so brazenly? Everyone saw the video, judging by it, it fell very tightly.
            You need to work more subtly, more subtly...

            You are talking the blatant stupidity of an ignorant idiot.
            Vladimir M wrote everything correctly. All ICBMs and INF missiles have an INERTIAL guidance system, and even with astrocorrection, in the space portion of the flight, the CEP there is 50-100 m. It is impossible to achieve better.
            Next, what do you see in the video, filmed tens of kilometers from the impact, and what kind of "accuracy" are you talking about there, I don't understand at all. Moreover, individually targetable warheads SHOULD NOT arrive "in a cluster". Each of them has its own target, and the distances between these targets can be hundreds of kilometers. What happened at Yuzhmash is a pure media action, and all the warheads were aimed at one point. And then it will be as it arrives, within the theoretical CEP of 50-100 meters. There is no point in talking about hitting a specific target, like a building/bunker.
            Learn the material, and don't attack reasonable people with your Uryaklov hats.
            1. Egg
              -2
              25 November 2024 11: 31
              Quote: Zoer
              uryakly

              Well, there are simply no words here... we're making it without looking?
              now take a deep breath and read again starting from this post
              Quote: Vladimir M
              Still, "Oreshnik" without a special warhead is more of a "media" weapon...

              only thoughtfully and comprehending everything that was written, by whom and about what...
              and the given CEP of 50-100 meters for a ballistic missile is very decent accuracy, it is clear that they do not throw the warhead through the window. but the throw was about:
              Quote: Vladimir M
              cities and "yuzhmash" with an area of ​​hundreds of hectares, in any case you will end up somewhere.

              can't you see the difference?
              Quote: Zoer
              Well, you're clearly not a techie either. A programmer, at best)))

              a very thoughtless statement, just a fart in the sky wassat
              Of course, I don’t have any academic degrees, but I don’t consider myself a humanities scholar either.
              1. 0
                25 November 2024 12: 40
                Quote: Telur
                now take a deep breath and read again starting from this post
                Quote: Vladimir M
                Still, "Oreshnik" without a special warhead is more of a "media" weapon...

                That's exactly it! A powerful media slap in the face, and towards the EU.
                Quote: Telur
                and the given CEP of 50-100 meters for a ballistic missile is very decent accuracy, it’s clear that they don’t throw the warhead through the window.

                The 9M723 missile is also a ballistic missile. But it is an OTRK, the speeds are different, and it is guided by GLONASS, the CEP is 5-7 m. This one hits the window. And it is just right for a bunker/headquarters. For a city-factory = somewhere there +- 100 m, and even if you attach a 3 t warhead there (which is nonsense of course), you can destroy anything valuable, only by accident.
                Quote: Telur
                Of course, I don’t have any academic degrees, but I don’t consider myself a humanities scholar either.

                You can classify yourself as anyone you want. But your writing here speaks for itself.
                1. Egg
                  -1
                  25 November 2024 12: 51
                  another forum fighter has gone on the warpath, humanities are on the attack laughing
                  You are having a discourse among yourselves here.
                  1. 0
                    25 November 2024 13: 08
                    Quote: Telur
                    another forum fighter has gone on the warpath, humanities are on the attack laughing
                    You are having a discourse among yourselves here.

                    It's clear that you've run out of arguments...
                    1. Egg
                      -1
                      25 November 2024 13: 42
                      Quote: Zoer
                      It's clear that you've run out of arguments...

                      Judging by the number of minuses you gave me (-2), you didn't even have any arguments, and the pluses you (+2) and your client (+2) have clearly defined you as an experienced forum fighter. Continue giving each other pluses laughing
    2. BAI
      -1
      25 November 2024 07: 51
      There was information that concrete-piercing warheads were used. Because they were supposed to penetrate and explode somewhere at a depth. As already said, the mass of the warhead is 250 kg. Not much. There is even less explosive there. An explosion at a depth in an underground workshop at night might not be visible
  13. +3
    25 November 2024 07: 12
    The only thing that is clear to the people is that everything is going exactly as no one planned and will develop as no one can predict! The steps from different sides are becoming more and more unpredictable, we will definitely not live better, the economy is accelerating in its decline and everyone is already fed up with all this.
  14. +11
    25 November 2024 07: 36
    To be honest, I am delighted with the author's military tactics, well, I really learn so much new. It turns out that cauldrons are not relevant now, but pocket tactics are cutting-edge. The same as not destroying bridges, supply columns, retreating troops, not hitting decision-making centers. And all this does not bother a bad dancer, he will find advantages everywhere. A strike with blanks is an advanced weapon, so advanced that there were not even explosions. Pockets because there is simply not enough strength to cover all directions, and this turns out to be so that a Bandera supporter can go to his mother for dinner. You read such an epic and it seems that a unicorn with fairies will fly to us now, and we will amicably walk arm in arm to Kyiv past gingerbread houses, over a rainbow along alpine meadows.
  15. 0
    25 November 2024 07: 39
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Do you have such information? Share it.

    A 30-meter crater is circulating in the media smile, at the same time they talk about minor damage.
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces allowed foreign journalists to see the remains of Oreshnik... let's see what they say.


    1) “According to various versions, at the site of Yuzhmash there is either a 30-meter deep hole, or ruins from a secondary detonation, or “flat on top, dust on the bottom.” Either a buffalo, or a bull, or an aurochs.
    2) I don’t know whether there is such a funnel or not, but in the satellite photo there are two, three, four (?) holes in the roofs of 20x30 workshops.
    Yuzhmash is clearly not 30 m in diameter
    "Yuzhmash" is a gigantic territory and several branches. A regular bus with stops goes around the plant with a territory of 750 hectares. It is really a small town.
    The plant is intact and has not fallen into ruin.
    3) So far, nothing concrete or mind-blowing. Russian war correspondent Alexander Kots, analyzing the strike on Yuzhmash, wrote that inert warheads were used to destroy the plant. In other words, blanks. "However, the kinetic energy of such a projectile entering the atmosphere at hypersonic speed, even without explosives, is enough to cause serious (?, well, let's say, certain-OS) damage on the ground. The hint from the Russian General Staff is quite obvious." What is obvious is only media noise for the people. And for a potential enemy - some facts for study, reflection, search for countermeasures of one kind or another...
    1. +6
      25 November 2024 08: 43
      A regular bus with stops runs around the plant with an area of ​​750 hectares.

      There was also a regular bus on Volgograd Tractor Plant... But it wasn't the Ukrainians who destroyed VTZ with American missiles...
  16. BAI
    0
    25 November 2024 07: 46
    Why are we conducting the ATO there for so long?

    Because they are implementing the Krynki option. The entire territory is targeted and under fire, all that is needed is to destroy the troops that Zelensky is pulling in there. Which is what is being done.
  17. 0
    25 November 2024 07: 57
    Quote: BAI
    There was information that concrete-piercing warheads were used. Because they were supposed to penetrate and explode somewhere at a depth. As already said, the mass of the warhead is 250 kg. Not much. There is even less explosive there. An explosion at a depth in an underground workshop at night might not be visible


    1) Where do you get such data about the missile and the destruction?
    2) Publications that there is now only a crater in the place of Yuzhmash are not necessarily malicious, says political scientist Dmitry Zhuravlev. According to Zhuravlev, such statements are often made not to convey the truth, but to attract the attention of the audience.
    "In the modern media field, you can't just tell the truth that has already been voiced several times before you. It won't arouse interest. But if you say that in place of one of the largest factories in Ukraine there is now only a crater, it will attract attention," the expert explained in a conversation with an aif.ru correspondent.
    3) People hear what they want.
    4) There is no reliable information. Speculation and rumors.
  18. 0
    25 November 2024 08: 27
    Another fairy tale. We have 100 lines in stock. Until the enemy reaches the Kremlin. There is enough land there for 2 European countries. So we can draw lines for a long time.
  19. +6
    25 November 2024 08: 33
    All domestic political scientists are divided into two categories: some are mad in their desire to prove the genius of the authorities, while others are just as zealous in assuring the opposite. As a result, public consciousness is constantly in a split state. It is possible to go crazy.
    1. +2
      25 November 2024 08: 40
      You can go crazy like this.
      It is possible if there are two hemispheres and one straight line, and the other hemispheres are without convolutions. But if both hemispheres have convolutions, then it will be difficult.
  20. +1
    25 November 2024 08: 34
    The time of "red lines" is over. The pencil is out. We are disrupting the West's plans Yes? But how can the practically official "Vzglyad" publish such an article, it has already been said more than once, the author lives in his own world.
  21. +2
    25 November 2024 09: 01
    "And I recognize my darling by his gait, he wears, wears breeches. And he wears a Panama hat, he wears "Nariman" shoes" (c).
    I think this is the last warning.

    At one time, the phrase "last Chinese warning" became a meme for many years. Is the red pencil out? There are other colors. Purple, green... About the red lines, I think, will also become a meme, like the last warning of the president. Result. The pencil is out, and Kherson is not liberated, Zaporozhye too, and Slavyansk with Kramatorsk even more so. But the offensive is underway. In Kursk, we grind and grind the enemy... and still nothing. And if we do not manage by the New Year, the deadline will be postponed to February, March, and then to the May holidays... By the way, with Ukraine, when we started, we also dreamed of managing by the holidays.
  22. +4
    25 November 2024 09: 39
    Too many words compared to the amount of action. Just one missile at the plant - and again a cloud of warnings, admonitions, threats, conversations, persuasions. Instead of all this, it would be possible to destroy, for example, the TV tower in Kyiv. Or the train station there. After all, Zelensky did not refuse to strike deep into Russia. All the talk can end here. Or just demolish his residence on Bankova. He is a terrorist and the leader of terrorists. What else can we expect?
  23. +3
    25 November 2024 09: 40
    The same turbopatriots believe that we will reach the English Channel, the British island will be demolished, and Alaska will be returned.
    Nothing will happen.
    1. +1
      25 November 2024 10: 00
      But it’s surprising, they dream about Alaska, the whole world in pieces, etc., but not about Slavyansk, Kherson, Zaporozhye, Kramatorsk.
  24. -1
    25 November 2024 10: 04
    and President Putin and Lavrov emphasized many timesand the idea that the SVO will be completed only when the tasks assigned to the army are completed.

    And not only Lavrov, and Putin. And Peskov. And many others who spoke... Why do they talk about this so much?
    1. +6
      25 November 2024 10: 51
      The SVO will be completed only when
      "When one stick and nine holes destroy an entire army, when the king bares his head, and you remain in a hat, when... Well, and you will find out the third condition when the first two are fulfilled." (c)
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. +4
    25 November 2024 11: 07
    Now the world is once again standing before the gates of hell. We are on the brink of events that will make what happened during World War II seem like a child's game of war... No one wants war. No matter what politicians say about it. What scares me is that, unlike in the early 60s, there are no political monsters now who are capable of resolving any problem in negotiations. Now, politicians, alas, don't give a damn about their countries, their peoples.

    You have to think about your country, but with Putin everything is the other way around.
    About hell.
    War opens the gates to hell for Russia, not for the whole world.
  27. +1
    25 November 2024 11: 30
    Missiles fall on their targets - and then what? Nothing... No explosions... It seems like a "dummy" has flown in. Then where does such destruction come from?..
    From kinetic energy. The degree of destruction depends on the mass of the projectile and its speed, and an increase in the speed of the projectile has a greater effect on the consequences than an increase in its mass. In Arizona, there is the Berringer impact crater, 230 meters deep and 1200 meters in diameter, which was formed by the impact of a "blank" 40 meters in diameter at a speed of 7 km/sec. It was a 10-megaton blast.
  28. -2
    25 November 2024 11: 33
    Quote: Stas157
    It must be admitted that China has not yet seriously taken advantage of our dependent position on it.

    Unfortunately, first-graders are already being taught hieroglyphs....
  29. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      25 November 2024 12: 13
      "The President summed up his statement perfectly. We will determine the goals ourselves. The conflict has become global. Translated into everyday Russian, it will sound simpler. Be afraid." Regarding be afraid - One of the next targets of the Ukrainian army for a strike with American ATACMS missiles on Russian territory could be the Rostov region; the Ukrainian Armed Forces are capable of attacking at least four airfields located in this region, the publication warns. This is The Wall Street Journal, UK Deputy Chief of Defence Staff Magowan says his army is ready to fight Russia 'tonight', this is the Daily Mail, Western countries have resumed discussions about sending their troops or private military companies (PMCs) to Ukraine., this is Le Monde, well who heard "be afraid" there.
      And the war must be ended, and not with another Minsk-Istanbul, but with our victory. Unfortunately, everything you described is happening. That's why I'm afraid that's what it's heading towards. After such an ending, Russia in its current borders can be forgotten. And here it is exactly "Now, unfortunately, politicians don't give a damn about their countries, their peoples."
  30. 0
    25 November 2024 12: 04
    Missiles fall on their targets - and then what? Nothing... No explosions... It seems like a "dummy" has flown in. Then where does such destruction come from?..

    There is nothing inexplicable about this. A blank hitting a target with 10 or 11 Machs is better than all that TNT. And 36 blanks weighing 100 kilograms are at least 10 times better than one blank weighing 3,6 tons.
    And if the final speed of the target's dummy is 20 Mach, then 1 kg of weight will already be 4 kilograms of TNT.
    Since HE bombs have approximately 50% of the weight of TNT, a 100 kg blank will already be like an 800 kg or more bomb.
    In addition, if the metal blank part of it evaporates on impact and burns in the air. So they say bonus.
    That's just what I can figure out, but of course there's also what I don't know.
  31. -1
    25 November 2024 12: 13
    Quote: kor1vet1974
    A regular bus with stops runs around the plant with an area of ​​750 hectares.

    There was also a regular bus on Volgograd Tractor Plant... But it wasn't the Ukrainians who destroyed VTZ with American missiles...


    Are you hinting at a strike by "Oreshnik" (a joke) or a strike by effective managers like "Rostec" (not a joke)?
    I don't know about the 30-meter crater, but the factory's checkpoint building and two monuments on F. E. Dzerzhinsky Square have been preserved, i.e., not everything is lost, glory to Allah...
    And the military part of the former plant lives on under the leadership of JSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant.
    The founder and managing company of VMK VgTZ LLC as of 2024 is Kurgan Machine-Building Plant JSC
  32. +1
    25 November 2024 12: 13
    Zelensky's plans are the voiced dreams of Ukrainians fooled by the media. They heard what they wanted to hear. When there is hopelessness around, you want to believe that everything will change soon...

    Something similar has already happened somewhere... what
    BUT! fellow
    Before the capitulation of Nazi Germany 79 and a half years ago.
    Here is proof of the cyclical nature of History. Yes
  33. +3
    25 November 2024 12: 21
    I have a suspicion that the pin=dos want to provoke ours to use nuclear weapons

    I don't think the US has such a dream. Moreover, no one wants nuclear weapons in Europe. It doesn't take much imagination - after the first single strikes or just the threat of strikes there will be a massive uncontrolled self-vaccination of the population and the collapse of society. The US remembers well what happened recently in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina.
    There are only some who do not believe that Russia will use nuclear weapons. But there are few of them in the EU and their population is only in Ukraine, the Baltics, Denmark and Britain. And in the US they think that they will be able to distance themselves from such a conflict in time.
  34. Eug
    0
    25 November 2024 12: 28
    The expression "red lines" or "red pencils" have ended - can be understood in two ways.
  35. -1
    25 November 2024 12: 29
    We have enough red pencils, markers and paint. So let's draw some more....
    1. 0
      25 November 2024 18: 22
      Quote: Sergei N 58912062
      We have enough red pencils, markers and paint. So let's draw some more....

      At the moment, VVP is drawing red lines with the blood of Russian soldiers and the blood of civilians in the Kursk region.
  36. +3
    25 November 2024 16: 02
    Yes, the next day they launched missile strikes on our airfields in the Kursk region. Firing with blanks does not give anything. The effect of Oreshnik is minimal, stop lying
  37. +2
    25 November 2024 17: 24
    So that's how it is, Mikhalych, large cauldrons in modern warfare turn out to be a "relic" of WWII! And the men don't even know it!
  38. +2
    25 November 2024 21: 08
    Strange concepts.
    Why is the Ukrainian Armed Forces' attack on the Kursk region called an adventure?
    Why terrorists and not militants?
    Why ATO and not war?
  39. 0
    25 November 2024 22: 18
    It feels like they dragged this article from Zen. :)
  40. 0
    25 November 2024 23: 28
    Actually, the media promised to drive out the enemy in three days. Then in a week. Then they promised again.
  41. 0
    26 November 2024 02: 39
    Surrendering to the punitive forces is not at all convenient. There is too much blood on their hands. And this means losses on both sides.
    When it's head-on, then of course, but when these rats are in a cauldron with Tosoy Grads, then everything could be different.
  42. +1
    26 November 2024 13: 10
    Are the red lines over? Well, well, the land of pink ponies rejoices
  43. +2
    26 November 2024 13: 32
    Somehow Zelensky has trouble coming up with plans. That's when "Quarter 95" came back to haunt the president's office. It's one thing to write a plan for playing the piano with your genitals,
    Author, how can you not make fun of us? Stop making fun of the Ukrainians! The third year of the war is coming to an end, hundreds of thousands of people on both sides have fallen into the ground, and you are still drawn to vomit-inducing laughter.
    Who are you laughing at? You're laughing at yourself!©
    It is not for nothing that in his address the president clearly stated that there will be a response to any provocation.
    What the hell provocations? What answers? Provocations in peacetime. Now - war.
    And it will last until the Kremlin starts fighting. For real. With all their might. And not just half a bump.
  44. +1
    28 November 2024 21: 41
    Another long-winded fantasy explanation, IMHO.

    In reality, soon 3 years of the SVO, against those "Russians" who by 14 sold out their army (according to VVP and the media)
    But the scapegoat for the media is still in trouble. Not a soldier and not a manager. "Somehow Zelensky's plans are not working out."
    Fu
  45. 0
    29 November 2024 11: 56
    Quote: Alexey Lantukh
    The article is certainly weak. But, in principle, you can comment on anything.
    For example:
    They tried to tear us away from the rest of the world by prohibiting us from performing at festivals, championships, and Olympics.

    So what? Well, we won. And tomorrow I get up for the same job, for the same salary. And the same wife and children. And the same problems that are in no way connected with sports. And what did big-time sports give to the development of the country? Nothing. Did the big bosses just get some PR? Yes, big athletes made some money. But there are still almost no free sports sections for children. Yes, there are more empty expensive sports facilities.

    I strongly agree. All sections are paid. And if you want something seriously - bring money. Children's hockey is a rat race.
  46. 0
    29 November 2024 22: 38
    The "cauldron" is good because the enemy is deprived of all supplies, there is no replenishment of ammunition, fuel, food. Equipment without ammunition and fuel is a pile of iron, personnel without ammunition is a crowd. Deprived of supplies, the enemy quickly loses combat capability. After all, in the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Wehrmacht did not have ammunition reserves of 15 rounds, like the Germans at Stalingrad. Plus the impossibility of evacuating even the slightly wounded. And fighting surrounded by the corpses of dead comrades. The moral blow is terrible.