Medium-range "Oreshnik": experts discuss the Russian president's statement on the hypersonic weapon used during the SVO

The Supreme Commander-in-Chief's address caused what is called a lively reaction in the expert community. Specialists and fans of military topics of various levels and profiles, of course, paid attention to the statement of the head of state about the first combat use of the promising weapons - another hypersonic missile systems. We are talking about the hypersonic medium-range missile "Oreshnik" mentioned by Vladimir Putin in his address.

According to the president, it was this missile that today hit the industrial complex in Dnepropetrovsk, reaching speeds of up to Mach 10.

What is important is that the president made it clear that Russia began work on creating intermediate- and shorter-range missiles precisely after the United States withdrew from the INF Treaty. That is, it is precisely its own unilateral withdrawal from this fundamental treaty that the United States should blame for Russia's emergence of missile weapons capable of hitting targets at "non-strategic" distances - 500-1000 km and 1000-5500 km, respectively.

Experts point out that such a launch does not require any notification to the US, as would be the case with an ICBM launch. The strike was swift, decisive and effective. The Ukrainian armed forces, as is well known, mistook the Russian medium-range missile for an intercontinental one, but even before Vladimir Putin's appeal, Western media outlets made it clear to Kyiv that they were wrong and that it was not an ICBM, but a medium-range missile - quite possible.

Based on what was broadcast from Dnepropetrovsk today, it becomes clear that the Oreshnik may well have separable blocks, which makes it unrealistic to intercept them with existing means Defense- PRO. Although, again - judging by the previously published footage, there was no attempt at interception.

Comments

[Aristarkh Verkhozin]

Or maybe it was the janitor ...
He walked through the countryside
To the nearest hazel
For a new broom.

After cruise missiles fly at military targets deep inside Russia, a direct confrontation with NATO will begin. Up to and including the use of nuclear weapons. Stock up on cigars, rum, a comfortable chair and a good view of the horizon. Light up, have a drink and enjoy the spectacle. The entry of warheads into the atmosphere is a one-time show. For residents of Moscow and the region, there is also an additional spectacle of "launching missile defense systems."

[Sedov]

Or maybe it was the janitor ...
He walked through the countryside
To the nearest hazel
For the new broom

It's just that the forelocks got it in the neck today) And what a beautiful name: "Oreshnik") Try some Russian nuts, friends)

[hrych]

Hazel is a heavily branched bush. I counted about twenty combat units. A scary thing for the EU, Japan, etc.

[Yf,k.lfntkm2012-2]

Hazel is a highly branched bush.

And do not say.

[bayard]

There were 36 BBs. But it looks like there were 6 (SIX) IRBMs with 6 BBs on each.
And among those flying next to them there were either false targets or fragments of the breeding stage.
By the way, it looks like it was a piece of the bottom part of the breeding stage that was already found in Dnepropetrovsk among everything that arrived. They even posted a photo.

Quote: hrych

A terrible thing for the EU, Japan, etc.

For the European-Mediterranean theater of operations, Japan and the US and French bases in the Asia-Pacific region, for American bases in the Middle East and of course for deployment in the Caribbean region if the fraternal countries of Latin America so request. And of course at the renewed bases deep in the basalt mountains of Chukotka.
I would also like a light MRBM with a range of 2000 km, a single-block, two-stage (the 1st stage is the Iskander engine, and the 2nd is the Kinzhal for ground TPU. Sergei Ketonov proposed this back in the early 00s, and posted sketches. Everything is based on ready-made components, the novelty factor is minimal.

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

But it looks like it was 6 (SIX) IRBMs

Most likely, it is one missile. They suspect the RS-26 missile. 80 tons versus 120 Yars. It was considered for the Barguzin BZhRK. Its special feature is its universal range from 2 to 6-7 thousand km, where we could reach New York and Washington from the north, and also cover the EU along a flat trajectory. The dispersal platform was hardly used at all. The blocks flew in six packages, like NUR. Apparently, the MIRV was like a rack. If the platform was used, it also threw packages of 3-5 BBs. Even Trump, when he was president, bleated about compact, low-power, nuclear blocks. So that one missile could shower the enemy with a cloud of blocks. He bleated, and we apparently did it :)

Quote: bayard

for deployment in the Caribbean region if requested to do so by the fraternal countries of Latin America

Cuba #2 Havana-Washington 1,8 thousand km, Havana-New York=2,1

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

Most likely it is one rocket.

Yes, I was already told that there was one missile.

Quote: hrych

They suspect the RS-26 missile. 80 tons versus 120 for the Yars.

"Yarsa"? Maybe "Molodets", that one had a launch weight of 108 tons.
I have never heard of our having a solid-fuel ICBM with a launch weight of 80 tons. But if there was one, then it is clear on what basis China and S. Korea are now deploying TT ICBMs with such a launch weight (around 85 tons). And the Yars, as far as sclerosis is concerned, has a launch weight of around 44 tons.

Quote: hrych

It was considered for the Barguzin BZhRK.

The BZhRK is now irrelevant, such compositions with satellites and agents are easy to detect. Unless they are hidden in tunnels under mountain ranges and brought out for launch. For the "Molodtsy" a similar method of basing, but without mountains - underground along a ring road / tunnel and 10 shafts per ring. It was necessary to raise such an infrastructure. Near Novomoskovsk, Dnepropetrovsk region.

Quote: hrych

from 2 to 6-7 thousand km, where from the north we reached New York and Washington, and also covered the EU along a flat trajectory.

And from Chukotka - the entire West Coast of the USA and most of the rest of the territory. They built a good base there for the "Pioneers", it needs to be renewed. Everything is intact there, it just needs major repairs.

Quote: hrych

The breeding platform was hardly used at all.

Well, the bottom part with nozzles for maneuvering engines at the crash site has already been found and even a photo has been posted, it's a pity the scale is unclear. So either from the breeding stage, or each block has such a block of maneuvering engines (since the president called the blocks hypersonic, it means they maneuver, and the Sumerian air defense forces say that the blocks maneuvered very energetically) ... but at the same time the scale of breeding is small. However, apparently they did not have a special task to breed, and in order to destroy the underground workshops, it was necessary to plow with blocks-blanks more densely.

Quote: hrych

The blocks flew in six packages, like NUR. Apparently the MIRV was like a rack.

Yes, six cassettes with six blocks in each, arranged in a stack or cascade. Each cassette contains 6 BBs, I counted. But when these are nuclear warheads, it will simply be carpet bombing with nuclear warheads. But if the blocks themselves are maneuverable, then IN is possible. But how can you find so many targets in a limited radius of spread? And what is this radius? NATO headquarters will definitely have something to think about.

Quote: hrych

Cuba No. 2 Havana-Washington 1,8 thousand km, Havana-New York = 2,1

Cuba is too close, there is a risk of a preemptive strike, and they might not let us take off from there - they will hit us on takeoff. But from the southern coast of the Caribbean Sea - it would be quite possible. And the blocs could be separated properly.

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

"Yarsa"? Maybe "Molodets"?

The mass, of course, is together with the mobile installation and all this is approximate.

Quote: bayard

Cuba - too close, danger of preemptive strike

Cuba is a huge island, and a mobile installation is not Yangel's R-12/14, standing like pillars. We'll hide it in the jungle, there are mountains there, etc. I wouldn't reject Cuba.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

The mass, of course, is together with the mobile installation and all this is approximate.

Well, who measures ICBMs with TPUs by the same weight? It turns out that the RS-26 is the same "Rubezh" but with a whole stack of low-yield 36 nuclear warheads... say 50 kt each. ... Is this to cover huge areas with a solid nuclear carpet? Troops deployed for an offensive? Multi-million cities and industrial zones? I remember that there were ICBMs and SLBMs with the number of low-yield nuclear warheads up to 14 units, but 36 units.
... I'm lost in thought. But Europe is definitely not to be envied now. The nuclear carpet for England, France, Germany, Italy, Poland and other Denmarks, Hollands and Spains... will be spread out magnificently.
And the "Rubezh" in the version of the classic MRBM - with 6 nuclear warheads with a capacity from 500 kt. to 2 mt. (the specific capacity of domestic physical packages allows this), each - for higher priority targets.
I wouldn’t want such extremes, but they left themselves no choice.

Quote: hrych

Cuba is a huge island, and a mobile installation is not like Yangel's R-12/14, standing like pillars.

The "Rubezh" and "Oreshnik" have a minimum range of 2000 km, a dead zone for the entire East Coast. But from Venezuela, where back in 2015 they agreed on a naval base, an air force base and the possibility of deploying missiles... it works out just right. And it will have time to deploy all the nuclear warheads normally. This is for the East Coast and the southern states. And for the West Coast and central regions - our base built in the late Soviet Union in the adits under a basalt mountain.
And in Cuba there are "Zircons" and light single-head MRBMs with a monoblock warhead with a range of 2000 km (the first stage is the Iskander engine, the second is the Kinzhal, the first stage thrust is more than enough) - for a decapitating and disarming strike.
This is the response to the US deployment of its Tomahawks in Europe and the Asia-Pacific region.

[hrych]

There is a point in 36 low-power ones versus 6 high-power ones. Resistance to enemy missile defense. Especially to kinetic interceptors like SM-3 Aegis, etc. Including if an AUG formation is attacked. I don't think that the RS-26 and RS-24 Yars are completely different missiles. Yars flies a maximum of 12 thousand, and Rubezh is one and a half times less. And the mobile complex is one and a half times lighter. Here the first stages are more likely to be the same, and the third is smaller, so that there are no problems with placing it in the Barguzin carriage. Yars with a warhead, like Molodets, with all the problems. The warhead is more likely to be unified. Now, it is much easier to combine the third stage by length technologically. The engine is the same, and the volume of solid fuel is less. Hypothetically. We lose a little in range, but we cover the USA, taking advantage of the vastness of our territories and do not forget about our neighbors. We take Rubezh, reduce the 3rd stage or remove it completely, put a rack with 6 breeding platforms and get Oreshnik. Knowing the genius Solomonov and his penchant for modularity and versatility, here is the version. And Yars is a continuation of Topol, which is based on Korolev's RT-2. That is, Sergei Palych continues to fight the enemy, his work lives on.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

We take the Frontier, reduce the 3rd stage or remove it completely, put a rack with 6 breeding platforms and get the Hazel.

Most likely, that's exactly what they did. And the Sumerians have already found the bottom part of one of the stages of the breeding on the Yuzhmash wreckage, they posted a photo.

[MBRSS]

Quote: hrych

for BZHRK Barguzin. Feature - universal range from 2 to 6-7 thousand km, where from the north we got New York and Washington

What, is there a branched railway network in the north? What nonsense.

[hrych]

The missile is light and primarily for mobile complexes. For Anadyr, etc., in general, instead of Pioneer. If Pioneer from Anadyr could shoot through the entire West Coast of the USA, then RS-26 from Anadyr can reach Washington. Well, how should Pioneer extinguish the EU, Britain, Japan, Turkey, China, etc. Here BZhRK is good, as one of the options. But Murmansk, for example, where there is a railway, has the same distance to Washington as from Anadyr. And from Khabarovsk to Seattle or Vancouver is less than 7 thousand. Depends on where and from where to shoot.

[Pioneer1984]

Only the range from KapYar to Dnepropetrovsk is about 700 km, so a missile with a minimum of 2000 will not fly at 700.

[hrych]

Un launched an ICBM at 500 km, with a range of 14 thousand km, on a steep, almost vertical trajectory. Now, imagine 45 degrees - this is the maximum range in ballistics. Make it more than 45 degrees, it will fall closer, make it less than 45 degrees, it will also fall closer. In this case, to reduce the possibility of countering air defense/missile defense forces, a trajectory less than 45 degrees is welcome.

[Pioneer1984]

Is this your personal fantasy or did you copy it from someone?

[hrych]

The science of ballistics is called, where 45 degrees is the main value from which they dance. And rockets, as you have heard, are called ballistic. Now, I will find you a children's picture for clarity. I do not promise Teletubbies.

[Pioneer1984]

First, finish high school, and then write about ballistics!

[hrych]

I have a higher education. I got an A in geometry and trigonometry. Okay, I'll tell you the nuance, from one missile man to another. If you take into account air resistance, then by launching a missile at an angle greater than 45 degrees and reducing the distance it passes through dense layers, you can sometimes fly further. Therefore, modern missiles, say, operational-tactical, shorter and even medium-range, while still in the boost phase (with the engine running), try to launch into the stratosphere at a large angle, and then there, when the rarefaction is reduced, reducing the angle to 45 degrees and even to zero degrees (parallel to the surface), depending on the range of the target, etc.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: bayard

with 6 BB on each.

Remake: "Six Nuts for Zelyushka"

[bayard]

The correction has already come - all 36 BBs were on one missile! Six cassettes with six BBs in each, arranged in a cascade \\ stack. It's scary to even imagine what will happen if all the blocks are nuclear. And all this happiness is for Euro-NATO.

[MBRSS]

Quote: bayard

I would also like a light MRBM with a range of 2000 km, a single-block, two-stage (the 1st stage is the Iskander engine, and the 2nd stage is the Kinzhal for ground-based TPU. Sergei Ketonov proposed this back in the early 00s...

I don't know who Ketonov is, but the 2nd stage is usually very different from the 1st: less mass, the engine lasts longer (different fuel and rocket profile), different nozzle. And you are offering a stage of practically the same design -- from Iskander and Kinzhal. Nonsense.

[bayard]

Quote: MBRBS

I don't know who Ketonov is.

Scientist, designer, specialist in strategic nuclear forces, participant in our forums (less and less often lately) and author of a considerable number of highly qualified articles.

Quote: MBRBS

but the 2nd stage is usually very different from the 1st: less mass, the engine works longer

Take a closer look at the Pershing-2 IRBM. Its second stage is lighter, of course, but not by much, with a range of 1800 km+.

Quote: MBRBS

other fuel and checker profile)

Well, this is for ICBMs and large MRBMs, although it is possible that the fuel composition in the Iskander and Kinzhal engines is also slightly different. So, in the composition of the TT, the content of aluminum powder in each subsequent stage is slightly different. To be honest, some time ago I had a dispute with Sergey on the same topic and the use of practically identical engines in both stages, but he clearly proved to me that the thrust of the first stage will be more than enough to accelerate and lift the second stage to a given altitude, and the impulse of the second stage will be greater than that of the Pershing-2, therefore, despite the fact that the Iskander and Kinzhal (and therefore this missile) will be "quasi-ballistic" at an altitude of about 50 km, it will fly about 2000 km with an accurate hit on the target. He was already struggling with this project in the early 00s, when the "Dagger" was only being thought of and the "Iskander" had just flown. But the INF Treaty was in effect and no one wanted to pursue another project, especially one that was deliberately put on the shelf, as a reserve. The missile was specially designed to use components that were already in stock and in production and to obtain the required characteristics of a light IRBM. But in recent years this project has become more than relevant. Because a light IRBM is a fairly compact ground-launched missile system that can easily carry and launch not just one, but two such missiles. This is stealth deployment, the ability to quickly deploy and maneuver, transport by rail, hitting targets at the same range and with the same effect as the "Dagger", but without the use of aircraft, without being tied to airfields (to which it will fly in the first hours of the war), the ability to be used much more flexibly and prepare for launch much more covertly. So Sergei convinced me, and I, as a former officer of combat control, operational control, agreed with him and appreciated it.
The advantage of Sergey Ketonov's proposal is that it is possible to obtain such a missile not just quickly, but very quickly. And it is precisely this missile that we really need. Because the "Oreshnik" is a good and effective thing, but it is large and long-range, and the tasks are different, including for individual targets, and for less than 2000 km. (And for the "Oreshnik" this seems to be the minimum range).

[MBRSS]

bayard Of course, you can make the stages identical, but no one does it because the design is not optimal. Unification is not profitable here -- there will be large gravitational losses on pulling out the heavy second stage. And the acceleration time will increase accordingly. In any case, the mass of the second stage is at least four times lower than the mass of the first. I'm too lazy to find out how it is with Pershing, but I'm sure that's exactly how it is.
Well, who can argue that a 2000 km rocket (especially if it’s cheap!) is needed :)

[bayard]

Quote: MBRBS

there will be large gravitational losses in pulling the heavy second stage.

So our rocket won’t go ballistically, we’ll push it out to 50 km and accelerate it as much as possible.

Quote: MBRBS

In any case, the mass of the second stage is at least four times lower than the mass of the first. I'm too lazy to find out how it was with Pershing, but I'm sure that's exactly it.

But you should still be curious (it's a good missile, by the way), I was also surprised - the Pershing-2 has a weight difference between the first and second stages of about 500 kg. (plus or minus, but not much). In addition, Pershing is a ballistic missile, and ours is a quasi-missile, and it has a slightly different acceleration scheme. In the end, the first stage performs the same role as the MiG-31 - to accelerate to 2500 km / h and lift higher (the MiG-31 drops the Kinzhal at an altitude of 17 km.) And the first stage will probably throw it higher. Then the Kinzhal will do everything itself. The Iskander engine is just a starting booster for it. But the result is much better than that of the Pershing-2 in the first half of the 80s.
There is also an option for the Zircon to use the Iskander engine as a booster, then it also flies 2000 km. For the land-based version of the PGRK and for the longer-range BRK - this is a very good option. And for us, a BRK with an anti-ship missile of such a range would not be at all superfluous. We will install such in Kamchatka, Primorye, in the south of Sakhalin and on Matua Island in the Kuril Ridge. ... And what AUG would dare to come to us? With proper reconnaissance and target designation?
By the way, this is also Sergei’s proposal (“Zircon” on the Iskander booster).

[BAT-MENT]

There is a version that there is a secret base at the Kapustin Yar test site where UFO fragments are stored. According to one version, UFO devices are covered with a plasma field for super speed in the atmosphere, the same technology is used in Russian hypersonic packages. Not a coincidence.

[sgrabik]

I agree, we really need a light IRBM with a range of 2000-2500 km and hypersonic flight speed, and its warhead should be at least 1,5-2 tons.

[lwxx]

So far the hohols have gotten "nuts". And the Western partners will get "nuts". The hazel tree has already grown.

[Эльдорадо]

How the world has become accustomed to wars!
I wouldn’t be surprised if after Russia announces another strike, with the aim of evacuating civilians and not only residents.
Hundreds of crazy "moths" will flock to watch the "Hazelnut" missile strikes.
And Zelensky will also start selling tickets.

[guest]

Quote: lwxx

And Western partners will get the "nuts and bolts".

In the West, nuts are sometimes used to refer to something that our leadership has not shown for a long time.

[Bayun]

"Hard Nut".

Then it will be like in an old computer game: "Eh! Koldana!" And the enemy's metropolis will be covered with ice blocks. And it is also possible to simultaneously launch "olgoy-khorkhoya" across the steppes...

For peace, Rus'. FOR peace... SURRENDER and... let's live in peace;)

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Bayun

..For peace, Rus'. FOR peace... SURRENDER and... let's live in peace;)

It seems like a good slogan, and it sounds almost unambiguous... ?!!

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

..For residents of Moscow and the region there is also an additional spectacle of “launching missile defense systems.”

Yes, you are an optimist, however...!!!

[bayard]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Yes, you are an optimist, however...!!!

And what remains when American officials are already demanding that Zelensky be immediately given Tomahawks and “everything NATO has”?
Just sit by the window with a good view and watch the triumph of Madness.

We just have to wait for the change of power in the USA, when the orderlies will start wrapping all these madmen in the robes of humility and pride and transporting them to cells with soft walls. Two months left.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bayard

We just have to wait for the change of power in the USA, when the orderlies will start wrapping all these madmen in the robes of humility and pride and transporting them to cells with soft walls.

but this is far from a fact, my dear Vitaly...
Yes, you and I would like to...
but I have no confidence at all that the military-industrial lobby, and those who are above, will allow Trump to pursue a policy different from what is happening now...

[bayard]

The main thing for him (Trump), and for all of us, is to live until his inauguration.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

I have no confidence at all that the military-industrial lobby and those above them will allow Trump to pursue a policy different from what is happening now...

If we survive these two months, we will see everything ourselves.

[Rage66]

Stock up on cigars, rum, a comfortable chair and a good view of the horizon.

This won't work... Do you want to look at this out the window?

[Aristarkh Verkhozin]

Quote: Rage66

Do you want to look at this from the window?

You can climb onto the roof of an apartment building

[hrych]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

To the nearest hazel
For a new broom.

To the point

[BAI]

The video is beautiful. But for NATO, this is just an entertaining movie over Ukraine.

[Maxim]

yeah yeah there am in Romania and Poland it's time to tighten up your buns they are definitely first in line

[ZovSailor]

The first incorrect definition, I would name in the same line all those who dream of a commissar's body, as was said in the Optimistic Tragedy!

[Montezuma]

Quote: BAI

But for NATO, this is just an entertaining movie over Ukraine.

For specialists, this is a fairly instructive and convincing film. The viewer just needs to imagine this picture and its consequences on their territory.

[BAI]

There are no specialists in the US and UK governments.
The British, as Putin said, killed several of our servicemen. The answer?

[Vitov]

You need to be able to think and work on the Internet. A missile that flies at a speed of about 6,7 km / s, and has 6 separating parts of individual guidance with a range of up to 6 thousand km. The author of the news is not threatened by this. I do not understand the fuss about the conditions for withdrawing from the treaty. The United States wanted to be smarter than everyone else, and placed launchers in Europe, allegedly for missile defense systems. But these unified launch containers can be used for offensive weapons in the form of "Tomahawks", which are sea-based and, allegedly, did not fall under the treaty ... RS-26 "Rubezh" has long been developed and was waiting for its time to give enemies a headache. All of Europe is under fire and there is nothing to shoot down. The patriot smokes on the sidelines ....

[MBRSS]

Quote: Vitov

All of Europe is under fire and there is nothing to shoot down. The patriot is smoking on the sidelines....

Patriot has nothing to do with it. The European missile defense is SM-3. Maybe they'll bring in THAAD. As for its indestructibility, it's too early to talk about that. Iskander was also "indestructible."

[bambr731]

The video is beautiful. But for NATO, this is just an entertaining movie over Ukraine.

Movie or not, but the hot ones will cool down, I think. There's something to scratch their heads about. They thought they were aware of all the Russian Federation's weapons, but here a hypersonic hazelnut has sprouted and they have no way to intercept it.

[Hariton laptev]

It's not entertaining at all. NATO is just sitting there scratching its head about what flew in, where it was launched from, why it wasn't detected, and most importantly, what if there's a fucking loaf of bread there?

[Alexey G]

just an entertaining movie

I don't think so, even though they are idiots, they want to live, creatures. Besides, it's not a fact that there weren't Americans or Brits at Yuzhmash at that moment... Then they felt the creatures on their own skin!

[GRANATE-19]

Quote: Alexey G

I don't think so, even though they are idiots, they want to live, creatures. Besides, it's not a fact that there weren't Americans or Brits at Yuzhmash at that moment... Then they felt the creatures on their own skin!

They wouldn't have shot at an empty field! There was clearly someone from that company there.
The main thing is that it floated away...

[sir Garry]

It would be nice to see, at least from a satellite, the consequences of the strike...

[sgrabik]

Well, this is for now over Ukraine, and who knows what else we have in our storerooms, because some not particularly smart and gifted characters still seriously believe that we are only capable of scaring and showing cartoons, but it turns out that we are capable of much more than that.

[GeorgeSev85]

In the video, it looks like the blocks were without a warhead (not a nuclear one, of course), apparently a kinetic warhead was used for testing purposes.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: GeorgeSev85

In the video, it looks like the blocks were without a warhead (not a nuclear one, of course), apparently a kinetic warhead was used for testing purposes.

It is possible that there were warheads with explosives, but they were small in power.

[Montezuma]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

It is possible that there were warheads with explosives, but they were small in power.

The question of the warhead's penetration depth also remains open. It is quite possible that there are special variants for hitting especially protected underground facilities. In short, there are many questions about the capabilities, but one thing is clear - the Russian Federation has extremely unpleasant surprises for the enemy, and "Oreshnik" clearly confirmed this.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Montezuma

There are extremely unpleasant surprises in the Russian Federation for the enemy, and "Oreshnik" clearly confirmed this.

I hope this is not the only surprise for the enemy... extremely unpleasant surprises and enemies harmful to life.

[Olesya Lesya]

At Yuzhmash there are underground workshops - that's where they were apparently aiming (testing), and all the power went into the ground.

[rruvim]

Yes, that's right. There are underground workshops at Yuzhmash. They were built in the USSR in the 70s. Only a kinetic strike from space, I mean an ICBM or an INF can penetrate concrete. Even if they are blanks...

[sir Garry]

Yes, I also noticed the absence of any explosions or fires...

[digger]

what small. there hypersonic. and now tell me if a simple missile or shell does not explode, to what depth does it go? That's it. The hypersonic blocks were buried deep underground so that the entire plant and underground workshops would be reduced to zero. Did you really think that all the production was up there?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Digger

how small. there is hypersonic.

Possibly 100 kg of powerful explosives (the equivalent of TNT is possibly 230 kg), the same Zircons are also hypersonic, but with a warhead of 300-400 kg.

[sgrabik]

"Zircon" is mainly an anti-ship missile, although it is quite possible that there are already other, more advanced modifications of this hypersonic missile.

[spirit]

Apparently, the kinetic power supply was used for testing purposes.

Oreshnik, this is the same as what the Chinese do DF21 to fight aircraft carriers, they come with a conventional and special warhead. Medium range. They are all hypersonic a priori. Pandora's box with short-range missiles is open. And the Americans logically withdrew from the treaty. What's the point of sitting in it if China and other nuclear powers like India and Pakistan haven't signed it

[Alex Starley]

So there is another video, they posted it in the comments, after about 20-25 seconds there are two mega-explosions.

[MBRSS]

Quote: GeorgeSev85

In the video it looks like the blocks were without warheads

and there is very little explosive that can fit in there, there is no point in loading them. And in general it is too expensive a pleasure to fire this missile where Geraniums can be reached. This strike was demonstrated for the Western public.

[ZovSailor]

Now, all you Anglo-Saxons, tremble, this is no longer a response, but a preemptive strike, there is no need to notify anyone according to all international norms and rules!
And soon it will be even more surprising, we will slowly begin to start and fill with new types, not yet to scare, but to think about the inevitable retribution

[MBRSS]

Quote: ZovSailor

Now, all you Anglo-Saxons, tremble, this is no longer a response, but a preemptive strike, there is no need to notify anyone...

Nonsense. You'd think that when it's used in COMBAT, someone would be required to be notified :)

[aleks.29ru]

Firstly, it's beautiful ...

[Olegi1]

Firstly, it's beautiful ...

I agree. This is the case when "Beauty is a terrible force"... It's good that it's OUR weapon.

[rusich]

"Oreshnik" did a great job on Dnepropetrovsk. A good new hypersonic missile. The Poles and Romanians should get ready to meet "Oreshnik"

[Huarabey]

Romanians in particular. It seems they service F16 there. Here you can kill two promised birds with one stone. Both on F16 and on storms.

[rocket757]

Question... how is an ICBM different from other missiles flying on a ballistic trajectory?
So, their range of destruction, delivery of "arguments", is greater... in general, it is precisely this nuance that is expressed in the design features of the missiles.
It can also be noted that they are designed to overcome the serious missile defense of the enemy, for the destruction of which they are designed.
To say that ballistic missiles of shorter range is much simpler... but no. The dimensions are smaller, but otherwise many things are practically the same.
Now the question is... was it an ICBM or something else, but it doesn't matter!!!
Effective, destructive and the air defense of a specific enemy is not an obstacle for such missiles...

[Paul zewike]

These are medium-range missiles. Not ICBMs.

[digger]

Of course, these were old Topol-M ICBMs - there are so many of them in warehouses that you can eat them with your ass... why bother with recycling them when you can re-equip them for Oreshnik and use them.

[rocket757]

The question is... where will the booster block from an ICBM crash if this is the one used?
Topol M is solid fuel! How can it be launched at short range when the design is initially set to fly/deliver the warhead at a distance... a greater distance???

[digger]

I am sure that the launch was deep in our territory and all the booster blocks and the rocket body remained and fell here. Everything is clear.

[rocket757]

For example, Topol's SECOND STAGE is designed to fall somewhere in the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean... where are you going to launch it from???
If, suddenly, there is a radical redesign of the missile, i.e. the use of some blocks from missiles being removed from service... it is hard to believe, and it turns out that this is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PRODUCT, which is certainly not an ICBM.

[digger]

there are neither forces nor means for another new personal product. And so the work is going at full capacity and there is not enough production capacity for current orders, and here there is still something else to look for? The poet .. use the removed from service poplar \ poplar-m and from next year the removal of YARS instead of which Rubezh. Therefore, there are enough ready-made missiles instead of spending on disposal again re-shoeing for hazel - effective ... cheap ... rational.

[rocket757]

For a necessary, important task, they find everything they need...
But converting Topol into a short/medium-range missile... is difficult, and whether it is even possible is a question.
The experts will remain silent, and we, armchair experts, can guess as much as we like.

[digger]

I think that in this case, Ukrainian sources are right in calling our new ICBM missile RS-26 "Rubezh". Why?

This is the same missile, only in one version it can be an ICBM (with a light warhead and a third booster stage), and in the second (with a heavy warhead, which is installed, among other things, instead of the third booster stage), a medium-range missile.

And then you can put 3-4 tons of load there. Or maybe more. Which is then divided and alternately goes to the target, as we saw in the video.

Probably each of them also carries false goals, which we also saw in the form of a kind of "fireworks".

Why am I sure that this is still the RS-26, only in a slightly different version? Because it is unrealistic to produce a new system from scratch in a short time without being noticed. And regarding the Rubezh and its second possible version, I had a guess back in 2016.


And now it has been confirmed. Moreover, completely (I assumed then that the heavy warhead would be hypersonic maneuvering)

And now we know the name of this new missile, "Oreshnik".

[nerovnayadoroga]

Were you told that we started from scratch and yesterday!? Don't read British newspapers in the morning...

[rruvim]

What if we dismantle the second-first stage? What if we just change the ballistics? For example, Topol-M - just throw it into space and, taking into account the rotation of the earth, return it back. There are many options.

[rocket757]

There are MANY versions... the main thing is that they made the whole world talk/discuss/guess!!! And some, especially zealous ones, got away from there and this is only the beginning... although, as for the continuation, it is not clear yet

[Polite Moose]

Quote: rocket757

Topol M is solid fuel! How can it be launched at short range when the design is initially set to fly/deliver the warhead at a distance... a greater distance???

Victor.
The thrust zeroing mode has been used on Russian (Soviet) rockets since the 60s. I don't know the parameters, but it exists. You can get some information here: http://makeyev.msk.ru/pub/sys/2006/MITu-60.html
The design of the thrust zeroing unit for solid-fuel rockets (Russian patent from 2010) is also freely available.
So, I believe that striking a target 10 km away with a missile with a range of 500 thousand km is not a problem for our Strategic Missile Forces.
P.S. But it hit me hard. I was just glued to the video.

[rocket757]

We argued and that was fine... although a boost of energy before bed is hardly necessary.
However, for some it is like a sleeping pill at night.
As for whether there are any problems with running at 500 instead of 5000 km, it’s somehow doubtful... there are enough problems even during the period when there is NO extreme/cataclysm that would write everything off, is it worth creating them.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: rocket757

We argued and that was it...

I didn't argue with you. I just tried to answer your question: "How to launch a solid-fuel Topol-M at short range?"
There is a lot more interesting stuff here: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-193.html

[rruvim]

Absolutely right! Zeroing the thrust. This is an axiom of ballistics.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: rocket757

The question is... where will the booster block from an ICBM crash if this is the one used?
Topol M is solid fuel! How can it be launched at short range when the design is initially set to fly/deliver the warhead at a distance... a greater distance???

On a very steep trajectory. As the Koreans did with their last ICBM launches. In the West, their maximum range was calculated to be from 9000 to 15000 km depending on the payload, and they fell nearby.

[rocket757]

Versions, fortune telling and other such things...
But what is the main thing???
We found something, did it and BANGed so hard that the whole world is discussing and guessing... along with us!!!

[Alex Starley]

The guy on TV told you that these are medium-range missiles, not ICBMs. Unlike ICBMs, they don't fly into space, they fly at an altitude of 60-80 km. If they had flown into space, American nuclear submarines could have launched them at us in response.

[digger]

I think that in this case, Ukrainian sources are right in calling our new ICBM missile RS-26 "Rubezh". Why?

This is the same missile, only in one version it can be an ICBM (with a light warhead and a third booster stage), and in the second (with a heavy warhead, which is installed, among other things, instead of the third booster stage), a medium-range missile.

And then you can put 3-4 tons of load there. Or maybe more. Which is then divided and alternately goes to the target, as we saw in the video.

Probably each of them also carries false goals, which we also saw in the form of a kind of "fireworks".

Why am I sure that this is still the RS-26, only in a slightly different version? Because it is unrealistic to produce a new system from scratch in a short time without being noticed. And regarding the Rubezh and its second possible version, I had a guess back in 2016.


And now it has been confirmed. Moreover, completely (I assumed then that the heavy warhead would be hypersonic maneuvering)

And now we know the name of this new missile, "Oreshnik".

[stankow]

The Americans were duly warned. That's why they ran away from the embassy.

[DO]

An earthmoving machine, today it might not have been a Topol-M, but something lighter and newer - as they assume, an RS-26 "Rubezh".
But modifying the Topol-M carriers for the Oreshnik system and shorter range, and unloading them from warehouses is the right idea.

[SSR]

Quote: rocket757

Question... how is an ICBM different from other missiles flying on a ballistic trajectory?

ICBM - how much is in this sound!
Intercontinentalnal Ballistic Missile.
It differs from others by the first letter, which implies the power and height of the first degree cast.
Imha.

[Andrey Andreev_2]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: GeorgeSev85

In the video, it looks like the blocks were without a warhead (not a nuclear one, of course), apparently a kinetic warhead was used for testing purposes.

It is possible that there were warheads with explosives, but they were small in power.

The main Yuzhmash is underground, so it's possible they just opened it up))

[Olesya Lesya]

We hope that they opened it and everything worked out there. That's why Yuzhmash with its underground workshops was chosen for testing. We'll find out later.

[sgrabik]

Everything is correct, Yuzhmash should have been destroyed a long time ago as one of the main strategically important objects of the enemy, if this was finally done, then this is very good news, respect and admiration to our designers, engineers and military, the main thing now is not to stop there, and continue to work hard in this direction, we still have a lot of work to do.

[AshPoseidon]

Well, that's fine, the fascists got their nuts. At the very least, "Oreshnik" is no worse than "Pioneer",
and at least 6 blocks arrived at Yuzhmash.

[Roman Efremov]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

For residents of Moscow and the region, there is also an additional spectacle of “launching missile defense systems.”

It's 3,5 km from my house - it's like I'll be sitting in the stalls!

[Huarabey]

Don't forget to film the stream and then post it

[Yf,k.lfntkm2012-2]

Well, for "Nut". Just one question: "Oreshnik" arrived from Yuzhmash alone? Or 6 pieces? For me it's purely for general development.

[fruc]

Yf,k.lfntkm2012-2
"Oreshnik" arrived alone from Yuzhmash?

One missile with a multiple warhead.

[Yf,k.lfntkm2012-2]

One missile with a multiple warhead.

This is the general point of view. Judging by the video, there were six obvious strikes. Moreover, each strike was clearly divided into separate charges. If this is a strike of one missile, then here, hats off, so to speak, six times more. Although it was impressive anyway.

[digger]

6 packs of 6 blocks, a total of 36 hypersonic blocks. We know that the Topol-M missile has 6 blocks in its warhead, so instead of recycling, the decommissioned Topols were saved up for re-booting as an Orkshnik. And starting next year, the Yars will be removed from service...instead of which they will install Rubezh...so there are enough delivery missiles.

[Camrad]

Judging by the debris found at the site of the fall of the blocks in Dnepropetrovsk, the rocket was liquid, not solid fuel, so Topol is not suitable, perhaps something from our Chinese or Korean friends, but the warhead could be from Topol.

[Barracuda 148]

Nobody was going to remove the Yarses, they are quite new.

[digger]

They are not new anymore. From next year they will be removed instead of - Rubezh

[sgrabik]

Barracuda 148, where are they new, they have been developing a replacement for the Yars for a long time, and it looks like everything is ready for this.

[sgrabik]

Digger, why are you so fixated on the Topole-M? It's obvious that it was a completely different missile, although the less information for the enemy, the better - it's for our own good.

[Alexey G]

On the birthday of Archangel Michael, the army of Orthodox people showed the Satanists thunder from heaven!
They will see the wrath of God, the unfortunate ones!
This is probably the last warning to the unholy creatures!

[digger]

---------------------

[Don Analyst]

Yes, it’s symbolic, nothing more to add!

[Alexey G]

And crush them like dust before the wind! Amen!

[KTM-5]

So "poVYtryani sylY" will soon write in their reports that they intercept 10 of these "Oreshniks" at a time. And the greasy audience will applaud them.

[Khibiny Plastun]

Eh. I wish something like that would fly over the bridges. It would be too wonderful to become reality.

[Styletto]

The first screen has nothing to do with the video at the end of the article. The video at the end is clearly a ballistic missile from near space with separating warheads (warheads + decoys in each batch), falling almost vertically at an unreal speed. From the beginning of the formation of a bright gas cloud (5-7 km) to the fall is a little more than a second.
The first screen shot from the video shows that "regular" hypersonic warheads, flying along a relatively flat trajectory, were even attempted to be shot down. The video shows that there were two air defense misses a split second before the explosions on the ground.

[Puz Big]

I wonder if this hazelnut can be used to throw the ODAB-9000 somewhere far away? It's not a nuclear weapon, but it would have made a big splash.

[Styletto]

"Oreshnik" on the screen is from another video, not the one at the end of the article. From the video it is clear that they even tried to shoot it down. And the speeds are incomparable. And the video at the end of the article is of separating warheads that flew in from near space from something like "Rubezh" or "Topol". These have a speed of 15-17 machs during the fall and the total weight of the warhead is about 6 tons, if I remember correctly.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Medium-range "Hazelnut"

Who comes up with the names?!

[magier]

Quote: lwxx

So far the hohols have gotten "nuts". And the Western partners will get "nuts". The hazel tree has already grown.

Hazel. A proven Russian material for making rods.

[Ryaruav]

if after such a blow the VSU had all run away to kyyuv ​​and further, that would have been powerful

[sgrabik]

This is just the beginning, there is still more to come.

[Alexey Novozhilov]

the whole question is how many of these hazelnut trees we have

[Hydrotech]

Putin warned them last week, but they didn’t believe him….

[stayer]

Now I wonder. How do they translate the name of the Oreshnik complex? In English: hazel. In German: Hasel. In French: noisetier.
Or are they putting the bricks aside for now?

[fsvlad]

Never. All weapons systems of a potential enemy receive a new code and a special nickname in NATO. The code is for systematization, the nickname is so that their own soldiers are not afraid of them :)

[SEVERIN]

So this is the promised hazelnut tree!.. - now let the whole West sit and think - how many more trump cards the Russians have in their pocket, and who of them will be next - Lithuania, Poland or... - who? - a funny layout.

[Igor1915]

And why is it without a nuclear filling? To show that it is there? He said that he would respond with a nuclear strike on Russia, and where is it?

[stankow]

Don't rush. Step by step. Let the West first realize the next one.

[Alexey G]

And why does it not have nuclear filling?

Don't rush! There will be nuclear when needed...
And the non-nuclear one is also good. Now there is a lever to bring down the bridges across the Dnieper, to strike at the notorious weapons delivery tunnels, at Zeli's bunker on Bankova! This gun is a gun!

[sgrabik]

That's right, we are not rich in Iskander alone, we already have something more serious.

[GRANATE-19]

It went down beautifully!
Fast, accurate and on time!

[guest]

The West has a little time to learn and memorize the new word "Oreshnik"
https://news-front.su/2024/11/21/u-zapada-est-nemnozhko-vremeni-uznat-i-zauchit-novoe-slovo-oreshnik/

[DO]

It would be useful for the Russian Armed Forces and military-industrial complex to similarly demonstrate to the world an ICBM with a range of more than 5500 km, with a non-nuclear warhead.

[guest]

Pentagon confirms it received warning from Russia about Oreshnik launch
https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2024/11/21/pentagon-podtverdil-chto-poluchil-ot-rossii-preduprezhdenie-o-puske-oreshnika

[rotfuks]

Experts and fans of military topics of various levels and profiles, of course, paid attention to the statement of the head of state about the first combat use of a promising weapon - another hypersonic missile system.

We can now expect a statement from the EU's top military expert, Ursula von der Leyen, that this is the latest missile assembled from chips from refrigerators and microwaves.

[volgast1970]

There is panic in NATO headquarters, all the "eggheads" have been called to an emergency meeting. We are waiting for them to make the "right" decisions.

[opposite28]

The blow was quick, decisive, effective.

It should have been like that a long time ago, otherwise “Grads” and “Smerchs” are somehow not serious.

Based on what was broadcast from Dnepropetrovsk today, it becomes clear that the Oreshnik may well have separating blocks, which makes it unrealistic for them to be intercepted by existing air defense and missile defense systems. Although, again, judging by the previously published footage, there was no attempt to intercept.

And the city remained intact.

[AS552000]

Such beauty can only be observed if the BBs arrive from space. This means that the missile's range is no less than 2000 km (SD). This means that they were able to build a new missile from scratch in 5 years, which is quite commendable. There are no such missiles in the West, no one is building them and none are expected to. Indeed, the West's blatant degradation in all areas is obvious - technologically, intellectually, morally, industrially. No matter how hard they puff, they cannot fight off such missiles or respond with such weapons.

[Ulembeck]

Medium-range "Oreshnik": experts discuss the Russian president's statement on the hypersonic weapon used during the SVO

Yes, it's check. Definitely. But, unfortunately, it's not checkmate yet.

[MBRSS]

The blow was swift and decisive, effective.

It's too early to judge the effectiveness. Besides, the RSD warhead cannot contain a lot of explosives by definition. The total weight of the block is usually up to 150 kg, the body is thick. Now that's impressive -- that's true. They fall quickly and beautifully.

[Cympak]

IMHO, non-nuclear warheads do not have any warheads. They most likely have a special refractory alloy with high pyrophoricity, like tank BOPS (depleted uranium or tungsten-based alloys). The damage is achieved by the instantaneous transition of high kinetic energy into potential (like a meteorite falling) + the incendiary effect of the fragments.

[Alexey Davydov]

Not impressive.
Against the backdrop of the continuing immunity of the USA/Great Britain, which prepared a war to destroy Russia with NATO countries and Japan and created a bridgehead on the territory (!) of Russia to seize the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant.
What exactly should this "news" change?
The authorities are carefully choosing steps that, on the one hand, can relieve tension among the people, and on the other hand, do not pose any danger to the Master of the prepared war to destroy Russia and his plans.

[Sergey_K]

A good "smash", especially considering that apparently these were just "empty shells"... Impressive! And if you stuff them...

[Sergei Fonov]

A new stage has begun in the history of missile weapons. One good thing is that our technologies are developing faster than Western thinking.

[gridasov]

Military experts can argue about the name of the missile, but only physicists with an understanding of the applied process algorithm can do a real analysis. In essence, all technologies remain the same, but a change in the order of the process and the result is sufficient to change the political weather in the world.