History of Technology with Sergey Ustyantsev: Slavery at Your Own Expense

It is no secret that buying technologies abroad - no matter whether we are talking about military affairs or the production of civilian equipment - is the cheapest and fastest way to achieve them. But why, strictly speaking, are these technologies sold, since no one needs competitors on the world market? Especially considering that the buyer, having acquired them, can ultimately fully master them and stop needing further cooperation.

The answer to this question is quite simple. It is that technologies are usually sold with the condition that the acquiring party cannot achieve technological superiority by this alone. In fact, technologies are sold so that the buyer is as strongly attached to the seller as possible.

A clear illustration of this state of affairs is the situation that developed between Uralvagonzavod and Western partners during the purchase of certain technologies related to railcar construction.

For example, the method of casting cast iron wheels brought to us by the Americans was significantly superior to anything used in Demidov's Urals in the past. Only on one condition - it was guaranteed to be worse than the technology used by the Americans themselves, as evidenced by the service life of these very wheels of only one year, while overseas they quietly rolled for five years.

A similar situation was with the production of carriage bogies - this technology was also sold to us by the Americans. And at first glance, there were no questions about it - the products were reliable and quite suitable for long-term use. The snag was that they were made of structural steel and were quite heavy, while the overseas "partners" themselves had long been using alloy steel, which ensured a lower weight of bogies with all the attendant advantages.

The scientific editor of the public relations department of Uralvagonzavod, historian Sergei Ustyantsev, talks about this and much more in detail.

Comments

[Vitaly_pvo]

Transfer of high technologies, as far as can be seen from official economic reports, now occupies more than 40% of the entire world trade market. And if we take into account that they trade not only high technologies, but also technologies of the agricultural, food and processing industries, then this is approximately 80% of the world market. And if it were not profitable, and everyone was deceived like "Indians with beads" or Demidov with wheels, then probably there would be only bankrupt companies and a complete monopoly on most industries.

[ism_ek]

Wheels for wagons are made at NTMK, not at UralVagonZavod....
Historians.....
The problem of our country is not in the wheels, but in the stupid and useless historians. Everyone should do their job well, and not rivet "square wheels".

[Konnick]

The catch was that they were made of structural steel and were quite heavy, while the overseas “partners” themselves had long been using alloy steel, which ensured a lower weight of the bogies with all the attendant advantages.

Let this "guru" tell us what UVZ makes bogies from now, it's good if they are made from low-alloy steel 20GL, but earlier, automatic couplings, side frames, and bolster beams were cast from simple steel 20L. Now UVZ is trying to foist off castings with welded elements from steel 30KhGSA, but they are not repairable.

[Konnick]

For example, the method of casting cast iron wheels brought to us by the Americans was significantly superior to anything used in Demidov's Urals in the past. Only on one condition - it was guaranteed to be worse than the technology used by the Americans themselves, as evidenced by the service life of these very wheels of only one year, while overseas they quietly rolled for five years.

Well, that's enough already. The technology had to be followed, not reworked to suit your own whims. The cast iron pigs for the cupolas for these wheels came from different factories and with different characteristics, so there was almost 100% defective, and there was also good quality.

[Alexander Vanichev]

What exactly are the different characteristics of cast iron pigs?

[Konnick]

Different chemical composition, primarily harmful phosphorus and sulfur

[Konnick]

But the situation with the Tikhvin Carriage Works is very interesting...

The American corporation Wabtec Corporation sold to the Russian side the technology for producing the model 18-100 (Barber) bogie, developed more than fifty years ago, while retaining the right to supply components, including Timken bearings, brake systems, articulation units, etc.
No, to give away technologies or scientists who could develop them. Or to act according to conscience and not develop for fifty years, so that the Great Imperial Russia of Putin could catch up with the damned Anglo-Saxons in the production of carriages. By the way, we have 90% of our own in them. Yes, by weight. But RESOURCES are more important than all these bearings, brake systems, etc. of yours. We can live without them!

So, has anyone been punished?

[Konnick]

And this is a story from my practice.
After being assigned in 1985, I ended up at a large foundry, where they were launching a malleable cast iron annealing furnace. That is, the technology of annealing white cast iron into malleable cast iron. I was surprised, since I was taught that this was an outdated technology and that everyone was switching to high-strength cast iron. But they explained to me that Holcroft furnaces were bought used from the USA, and this meant business trips to the States for both ministerial officials from the auto industry and their own, the director and chief engineer. In general, these furnaces worked for 5 years and the workshop was closed.

[Maks1995]

I haven't watched the video yet, but judging by the text, it all makes sense!
Who would sell the latest technology just like that? To grow competitors themselves? There are no fools
And here they write that initially we had even older, bad technologies.
"For example, the method of casting cast iron wheels brought to us by the Americans was significantly superior to anything used in the Demidov Urals in the past. Only with one condition - it was guaranteed to be worse than the technology used by the Americans themselves, as evidenced by the service life of these very wheels of only one year, while overseas they quietly rolled for five years."

By the way, 5-6 years ago, they wrote somewhere here (in "made in our country)" that our railway wheels are the best, they were exported abroad, including to the USA. Then they wrote that we don't have enough of them, we import them from China, Central Asia and ... Ukraine.
well and then SVO, and they don’t write about wheels anymore...

[Oldrover]

Who would sell the latest technology just like that? To grow competitors themselves? There are no fools

The world is more complex, there are those who build and design factories, there are those who manufacture products at these factories and sell them, so it is profitable for the former to build and design more factories around the world. Plus, crises happen and the choice is between bankruptcy and selling technology, even to competitors, but the opportunity to save the business.

Only on one condition - it was guaranteed to be worse than the technology used by the Americans themselves, as evidenced by the service life of these very wheels of only one year, while overseas they calmly rolled out for five years.

Or maybe the technology was not followed for various reasons, for example, the required quality of raw materials was not available.

[Blacksmith 55]

Everyone tries to bypass a patent in some way. And when selling technology, they do not disclose all the details of the matter. Russia too, equipment sold abroad (especially military) differs from that used in its own army. In military affairs, rarely does anyone follow the generally accepted (in a civilized society) rules. Basically, developments are classified as Secret, and no one will divulge where these technologies were obtained from.

[Maks1995]

1) Naturally. Options are quite possible in both directions.
2) This is also quite possible.

[Knell wardenheart]

Another craft in the style of "They always sold us crap!"
The answer to "why it is profitable for them to sell technologies" is not only in anchoring the buyer, although this also takes place. Western institutes engaged in R & D are a hellishly gluttonous machine, Western funds that issue funds for this R & D also want a profit, like all other commercial structures. It should seem clear that having made one technology and exploited it, seeing a replacement for it on the horizon (which requires money for research, etc.), this technology can be sold to several interested parties, and then their resources will be spent on its deployment and release of what you have already deployed and are releasing, while you, in turn, get money (while operating an existing production facility that creates products sold in already occupied markets), and the opportunity to focus on the next breakthrough, which will again make all these buyers of ready-made products swallow dust.

It is also necessary to understand that in the process of mastering the technical process "turnkey", it may happen that the buyer "cannot handle" the release of some elements needed for related processes. And since the technical process is a delicate matter, these elements can already be foisted off - thus, this is the thread through which a considerable part of the sweater can be unraveled :-) Someone will say that this is the height of deceit - well, that's how capital is arranged, everyone buys the best for the best price. This is not some kind of sophisticated deception, this is a strategy for winning from the available visible options in a complex.