Patrushev: Black Sea Fleet is combat-ready, Russia will not allow permanent presence of ships from non-Black Sea states in the region

Russia stands firmly on the Black Sea, fleet combat-ready and ready to counter external threats. Moscow will not allow the naval presence of non-Black Sea states in the Black Sea. This was stated by the Chairman of the Russian Maritime Collegium Nikolai Patrushev.

The Russian presidential aide visited Sevastopol, where he held a meeting with the leadership of the Black Sea Fleet. The fleet is in combat readiness, despite the statements of some Western politicians who like to listen to Zelensky. According to Patrushev, there is allegedly no defeat of the Black Sea Fleet, although all of Ukraine's actions in the Black Sea are coordinated by NATO.

As Putin's aide emphasized, Russia will not allow the permanent presence in the Black Sea of ​​naval forces of non-Black Sea states that are trying to overcome the prohibitions of the Montreux Convention. Some countries advocate its abolition altogether.

Westerners must firmly understand that Russia stands firmly on the Black Sea and we will not allow our positions in this region to be weakened. And even more so, we will not tolerate the permanent naval presence of non-Black Sea states in violation of the Montreux Convention.

- Patrushev said in an interview the newspaper "Kommersant".

Zelensky has previously stated on numerous occasions that the Ukrainian Navy allegedly “defeated” the Russian Black Sea Fleet, which was forced to “leave Sevastopol.” The head of the Kyiv junta likes to make such statements at various international meetings, presenting himself as the “winner” of Russia. In fact, the Black Sea Fleet is fully operational, but taking into account the experience of the Black Sea Fleet.

Comments

[rocket757]

The combat capability of a fleet, any fleet, is a COMPREHENSIVE concept.
With regard to the Black Sea region... our fleet's supply and support complex is stronger than in other places...

[ramzay21]

You can talk halva as much as you like, but it won't make it any sweeter. We have all observed the combat capability of the Black Sea Fleet since 2022 during military operations against a country without a fleet, and only a headless horseman can call the fleet combat-ready, looking at the country without a fleet fleeing from attacks behind tankers in Novorossiysk.
A combat-ready Black Sea Fleet had to reliably block the entire coast of Ukraine and blockade it for the entire duration of the SVO, as well as suppress coastal air defense, aviation, radars and ensure the conduct of a landing operation in the Odessa region, transfer troops there and ensure their supply. Then the Black Sea Fleet could be considered combat-ready.

[AAK]

Since the spring of 2022, the Black Sea Fleet has irretrievably lost 7 large and medium ships, as well as several boats, and several more NK and PL received damage of varying severity. Of the entire fleet, the 810th Marine Brigade and the 126th Coastal Defense Brigade are heroically fighting, pilots and boatmen carry out certain combat operations, everything else sits at bases and does not show off, even the "Kalibr" missiles from submarines have stopped firing (by the way, they have practically stopped firing "Kalibr" missiles at Banderas altogether, apparently the air defense is shooting down a significant number of them). Our Black Sea Fleet does not perform any of the important tasks that such an operational-tactical unit as a fleet is obliged to perform, especially in relation to the former Ukrainian SSR. In reality, the Black Sea Fleet, like the 2nd Baltic Fleet, are not fleets from any side and it is advisable to downgrade their status to flotillas.

[alexoff]

Since spring 2022, the Black Sea Fleet has irretrievably lost 7 large and medium-sized ships

I would clarify that all the ships were lost when they were either at anchor or detected an attack when they were a hundred meters away. If the Americans had acted like that during the war, not fighting for survivability, sleeping in one boot, sending ships to stand at night somewhere in the middle of the sea, forgetting that bases should be covered by air defense, then the Japanese would have landed troops in Panama and Seattle in 1943. The previous command of the Black Sea Fleet should not be checked for professional suitability, but for treason

[ramzay21]

The previous command of the Black Sea Fleet should not be checked for professional suitability, but for treason

It is necessary to check for treason all those who made decisions about the fleet, its construction and management; at a minimum, there is complete professional incompetence among all those who decided and are deciding anything about the fleet.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Moscow will not allow it naval presence of non-Black Sea states in the Black Sea. This was stated Chairman of the Maritime Collegium of Russia Nikolai Patrushev.

.. ???
Eh, Kolya, Kolya... why is everything so wrong with you... ??? "Chechen sugar", at FSB exercises...?!
Now it’s scary to release a combat-ready fleet beyond the Novorossiysk naval base...?!
... And that "Moscow", which has already been sunk, will not allow it, of course...

[bayard]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Eh, Kolya, Kolya... why is everything so wrong with you...???

Well, recently he has been overseeing the Navy and the shipbuilding industry, and created the Maritime Collegium.
Well, as for "of course it won't allow it", the Black Sea Fleet is not only ships (whatever they have), but also naval aviation, large missile systems, and marines (which are fighting). So sinking other people's ships in the Black Sea Championship is not a problem at all, no matter how they fight back - there are definitely "Tsirkons" as part of the large missile systems there. But ships definitely have nothing to do in the Black Sea Championship now - there is no one to fight with at sea. And they have already fought with the shore. But the shore does not sink after being hit, unlike a ship. The time will come for landing operations, then we can have some fun. Under the cover of aviation, with the participation of AWACS aircraft, in combined attacks and landings across the Dnieper. When it makes SENSE. And a worthy Goal. Well, and with sane command.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Now it’s scary to release a combat-ready fleet beyond the Novorossiysk naval base...?!

He should have been driven into these bases in the second half of 2022. There were no more tasks for him, and the threats to his ships were growing.

Quote from alexoff

The previous command of the Black Sea Fleet should not be checked for professional suitability, but for treason

And that too, but the main culprit of all this mess is still at large and even in office (but another one), although all the deputies are already under arrest, investigation or under supervision pending it. To attack a regiment with a conventional platoon/company, in a theater of military operations for which three fronts need to be deployed... that's not stupidity , this is TREASON.

[karabas-barabas]

A very short comment from me.., Bravo!

[Bad_gr]

Quote: AAK

They have practically stopped shooting at Bandera with "Kalibr" missiles, apparently due to air defense knocks them down significant part

Perhaps there is another reason - the same tasks began to be performed by cheaper means. For example, in the frontline zone, they began to use gliding bombs with high-power warheads.

[rocket757]

Yes, yes, they "learned" how to shoot down "Kalibr" missiles. .... why did there happen a massive power outage over a large area of ​​the country??? After all, they couldn't turn it back on for a long time!
It's not a secret, everyone wrote about it, both ours and not ours...

[shin]

After the start of the war, Ukraine, which actually has no fleet of its own, managed to damage or destroy at least 27 ships and one submarine of the Russian Navy with the help of Western missiles and naval drones. Of the 15 landing ships and boats that were in the Black Sea in February 2022, only five remained operational. In particular, the Ukrainian Armed Forces destroyed the large landing ships: Olenegorsky Gornyak, Minsk, Saratov, Novocherkassk and Caesar Kunikov. The flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the missile cruiser Moskva, was also destroyed. All this allowed Ukraine to reduce the threat of landing operations and missile attacks from Russian ships, as well as create sea corridors for the export of agricultural products.
Well, as a result of all this: the Russian Ministry of Defense was forced to withdraw the surviving military ships from Crimea, where they had been based for 240 years. So draw your own conclusions.

[vindigo]

"Olenegorsky Miner" has long been repaired and is in service.

[rocket757]

Quote: ramzay21

Then

You found in my book a precise indication that the Black Sea Fleet is combat-ready, in the definition of this concept that corresponds to this concept... WHERE?

[rocket757]

By the way... are those fleets of different powers that cannot protect civilian ships in the Strait of Oman from an attack by a country that does not have a fleet also combat-ready?

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: rocket757

And are the fleets of various powers that cannot protect civilian ships in the Strait of Oman from an attack by a country that does not have a fleet also combat-ready?

And who said that they did not fence? The Houthis with their fantastic statements that almost every day they shoot down either an aircraft or a destroyer with guided missiles? There is not the Black Sea there, but a very narrow strait and from the shore you can see the silhouettes of dry cargo ships and tankers. It is not so difficult to quietly bring a 3-5 m missile under the guise of logs and launch it for the Houthis (Iranians), since no one controls the coast. But it is precisely the pirate attacks and massive shelling of tankers and dry cargo ships that have long ceased.

[rocket757]

Everywhere has its own nuances, conditions, limitations or prevalence....
The Houthis... an isolated enclave that opposes one, then another, then the whole "GANG" of "the most-most" countries... Who is helping the Houthis?
Russia... big, inert, but still hasn't recovered from... in general, it's clear. Apart from internal turmoil, alas, not a second of peace... i.e. from the outside, there are quite strong enemies, who... also clear. As for allies, partners, or at least "the enemy of my enemy"... there are, but with this everything is not clear, in different ways...
In general, no matter who you take on, such a situation happens that it becomes obvious... we need to prepare for a big mess, a lot of problems have accumulated in the world and... it might even go boom!

[Silhouette]

The main thing is to crow, and then even if it doesn't dawn... Russia won't allow it..... How?!.... How?..... And in response - silence.....

[Wizard52]

Nothing to add or subtract. Top ten.

[KTM-5]

Odessa must be liberated and the pigsty must be cut off from access to the sea, so that the liquid Fuhrer will no longer stutter about any "victories".

[opuonmed]

Well, in order to do something, we need to destroy the Kyiv regime's air defense and take over the sky!

[Anatoly_4]

We need to destroy the Kyiv regime's air defense and take over the sky!

It's happened before, it didn't help.

[shin]

Can you tell me how we are going to conduct landing operations off the coast of Odessa with such a "combat-ready fleet" hidden in Novorossiysk?

[alexoff]

I don't know how combat-ready the Black Sea Fleet is, but since 2022, as a fleet, it has not participated in the SVO, except for rare launches of calibers and the participation of marines in ground combat operations. And we have quite a few units in the rear that live in 2021 and are engaged in painting grass and other drill training

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

but since 2022, as a fleet, it has not participated in the SVO, except for rare launches of calibers and the participation of marines in ground combat operations

I don't remember how many times this has been said. What specific part should he take in it?

[January]

Quote: Dart2027

What specific part should he take in it?

Well, apparently they will line up at the Odessa roadstead and bombard the port and fortress fortifications. How else does the fleet fight?

[Dart2027]

Quote: ian

to line up on the Odessa roadstead and bombard the port and fortifications

Except that.

[blackGRAIL]

The participation of the fleet in the inspection of ships heading to Ukrainian ports to search for military cargo, which Russia loudly announced as part of the grain deal and then spectacularly leaked.

None of the ships involved in the operation (although one or two were allocated - I don't remember) were attacked by the enemy. We were unable to inspect a single vessel, but we apparently created difficulties for the enemy, since the response to our unsuccessful attempts at inspections was attacks on our tankers in the Black Sea. And here the Black Sea Fleet demonstrated its complete inability to protect our merchant shipping. The conclusions were quick - Russia stopped trying to conduct inspections, withdrew the ships and never mentioned it again.

[Dart2027]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

And here the Black Sea Fleet demonstrated its complete inability to protect our merchant shipping.

In a confined space that can be shot through?

[blackGRAIL]

So the task of any fleet is to intercept hostile targets attacking it or ships escorted by it. This is exactly what the West is trying to do with the Houthis, also unsuccessfully. This is the direct task of the fleet and today the fleet (and not only the Black Sea Fleet) is not coping with it.

[Dart2027]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

This is a direct task of the fleet and today the fleet (and not only the Black Sea Fleet) is not coping with it.

In the last century and earlier, the fleet and the ships it accompanied could go beyond the enemy’s main striking means. In the World Cup, this is physically impossible to do.

[blackGRAIL]

Website of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The main tasks of the Black Sea Fleet at present are:

ensuring the safety of navigation;

[Dart2027]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

Website of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

And? How do you practically propose to do this?

[blackGRAIL]

In fact, this has been and is being done all over the world - escorting ships and intercepting targets attacking them. The Russian Ministry of Defense declared this mission of the fleet (if you call yourself a mushroom, climb into the back of the boat). The Black Sea Fleet is in no position to do this - it does not have ships to provide escort for convoys. The possibility of intercepting attacking targets is a separate issue. The Black Sea Fleet cannot defend itself and has retreated from Sevastopol beyond the limits of its means of destruction. The West also cannot cope with the Houthis - but it is trying to ensure shipping - this is the primary purpose of the fleet's existence. But the Black Sea Fleet did not even try - it capitulated and stopped the inspection mission.

[Dart2027]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

In fact, all over the world this has been done and is being done: escorting ships and intercepting targets attacking them.

Quote from: blackGRAIL

and today the fleet (and not only the Black Sea Fleet) cannot cope with it

Quote from: blackGRAIL

The West can't deal with the Houthis either - but it's trying to ensure shipping

Behind the Ukrainian Armed Forces are all NATO reconnaissance and guidance systems, and behind the Houthis is only Iran.

Quote from: blackGRAIL

The Black Sea Fleet is in principle unable to do this - it does not have the ships to provide escort for convoys.

Are you proposing to keep a fleet of hundreds of frigates and cruisers in one World Cup?

[bayard]

Quote: Dart2027

Are you proposing to keep a fleet of hundreds of frigates and cruisers in one World Cup?

Our merchant ships pass through the Black Sea and the straits without hindrance, and supply ships go to Odessa ports through the territorial waters of Bulgaria and Romania. So there is no need for convoys today.

[Dart2027]

Quote: bayard

So there is no need for convoys today.

No. Read the entire discussion.

[bayard]

I read the entire discussion. That's why I summed it up - in the current period, when the Black Sea Fleet can only suffer losses from anti-ship missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles and underwater drones in one way and WITHOUT ANY BENEFIT for the progress of the SVO, let it stay in protected bases. Our ships don't need an escort now - Turkey is responsible for security now, and the straits are closed to military ships. The Strategic Offensive will begin, then - YES. We currently have up to one and a half large landing ships from three fleets slogging away at the World Cup. The time will come for landing operations, the fleet will be useful again.

[Dart2027]

Quote: bayard

That is why I summed it up - in the current period, when the Black Sea Fleet can only suffer losses from anti-ship missiles and submarines and underwater drones in one way and WITHOUT ANY BENEFIT for the progress of the SVO, let it stay in protected bases

This is what I am trying to explain to those who like to shout that "the fleet is not doing anything, we need to do it immediately..."

[bayard]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

The Black Sea Fleet didn't even try - it capitulated and stopped the inspection mission.

Inspect ships in the territorial waters of neutral countries? Are you aware that all ships to Odessa go through the territorial waters of Bulgaria and Romania?
Now our OTRK crews are simply sinking these ships in the ports of the Odessa region and they are happily detonating.
Yes - that's right.
And the fact that the Black Sea Fleet is in the databases is correct.
Once the strategic offensive begins, the time will come for landing operations, or if NATO ships do get into the World Cup, then it’s his turn.

[alexoff]

the main destructive means of the enemy

Here one can only marvel. A country that has made more types of cruise missiles than all the other countries in the world combined, and that has made air defense systems its main export product, cannot shoot down cruise missiles that are sent in numbers that are not ten at a time. What a surprise, the enemy has missiles! And who were they planning to fight, Moldova? I won't even mention the boats, any helicopter is simply obliged to catch up with them and sink them.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

can't shoot down cruise missiles that aren't being sent in 10s at a time

But life is not a computer game, and the enemy does not have rebuilt water pipes. And missiles are definitely cheaper than ships.

Quote from alexoff

I won't even mention the boats; any helicopter is simply obliged to catch up with them and sink them.

There is no problem with this, the problem is that the sea is big and they need to be found.

[alexoff]

But life is not a computer game, and the enemy does not have rebuilt water pipes. And missiles are definitely cheaper than ships.

anti-aircraft missiles are much cheaper than anti-ship missiles. And the exercises are not conducted with water pipes

The problem is that the sea is big and they need to be found.

You seem to have an understanding that finding an enemy at sea is on the level of putting the most keen-sighted sailor with a telescope on the highest mast. Drones, hydro and radar, incredible technical achievements. But all sorts of hydroacoustic stations don't look very impressive at parades, which is why admirals didn't buy them.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

Anti-aircraft missiles are much cheaper than anti-ship missiles.

But nevertheless, exchanging several dozen anti-ship missiles for a frigate is profitable.

Quote from alexoff

Drones, hydro and radar, incredible technical achievements.

All systems were oriented towards countering other threats - submarines and aviation. Now they are creating new ones.

[alexoff]

But nevertheless, exchanging several dozen anti-ship missiles for a frigate is profitable.

Why do we need a frigate then? It turns out that ships had their day back in the sixties with the advent of the P-15

All systems were oriented towards countering other threats - submarines and aircraft.

Tell me, how is the Black Sea Fleet with anti-submarine defense? And what about air defense? I heard that cruise missiles are an easier target than aircraft

Now they are creating new ones.

which ones?

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

It turns out that the ships had their day back in the sixties with the advent of the P-15.

There's just no point in setting them up like that.

Quote from alexoff

I heard that a cruise missile is an easier target than an airplane.

No, it's smaller and can fly at altitudes that an airplane can't reach.

Quote from alexoff

which ones?

UAVs and helicopters are being developed to detect and destroy them.

[alexoff]

There's just no point in setting them up like that.

What does it mean to substitute? According to all your above logic, the fleet is automatically substituted simply by the fact of being at sea with the enemy. It would be awesome to sail on Baikal.

No, it's smaller and can fly at altitudes that an airplane can't reach.

no, she's flying towards the ship, not somewhere far away.

UAVs and helicopters are being developed to detect and destroy them.

are they refining it? I think they just remembered they existed

So, let's write it down - the Black Sea Fleet refused to talk about anti-submarine defense

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

what does it mean to substitute? According to all your above logic, the fleet is automatically substituted simply by the fact of being at sea with the enemy.

What surprises you? It's the 21st century outside.

Quote from alexoff

she's flying towards the ship, not somewhere far away

True. But it flies at low altitudes, so it doesn't show up on radar until the very end, so the air defense has little time to react.

Quote from alexoff

So, let's write it down - the Black Sea Fleet refused to talk about anti-submarine defense

What can I say about it? Do submarines fight there? But if you want it that way, there are 3 frigates and 6 Varshavyankas that can fight enemy submarines.

Quote from alexoff

are they refining it? I think they just remembered they existed

It's just that no one planned for a new threat to arise. Yes, we should have thought about it earlier, but we have what we have. So we have to adapt.

[alexoff]

Quote: Dart2027

What surprises you? It's the 21st century outside.

If the fleet is not capable of active operations in a basin where there is an enemy who is not blacks with Kalashnikovs on a motorboat, then it should be considered incapable of combat

Quote: Dart2027

But it flies at low altitudes, so it doesn’t appear on radars until the very end, so air defense has little time to react.

Yes, but everything is effective against cruise missiles, even small-caliber artillery. But we can start with the fact that the Black Sea Fleet had air defense on only two frigates (the third was left in the Mediterranean for some reason), and the S300F on Moscow was very outdated, the cruiser was repaired purely for show, we don’t like to conduct exercises to repel cruise missile attacks, here people have been tearing their hair out for years in front of the SVO. All the others were armed with small anti-aircraft missiles and MANPADS, to what extent it was connected with radars is an open question.

Quote: Dart2027

Are there submarines fighting there?

There is an opinion that it would be quite possible to supply the enemy with a robot submarine with a couple of torpedoes, there are samples. But if boats were enough, then why bother?

Quote: Dart2027

6 Varshavyankas that can fight enemy submarines.

The Varshavyankas are the mystery of the millennium, they are invulnerable to cruise missiles and fire ships, they could do something useful. For example, shoot at the bridge in Zatoka.
But our sonar systems are so-so, whether they will be able to detect other submarines, especially small ones, is a question.

Quote: Dart2027

It's just that no one planned for a new threat to arise. Yes, we should have thought about it earlier, but we have what we have. So we have to adapt.

so after a year they only started to adapt, before that they got it like a nerd at a village disco. They didn't even notice that mines were thrown from a fire ship at the exit from the bay. The enemy probably doesn't sleep either, he'll do some other dirty trick, they don't adapt to threats, and they themselves are up to something with foreign aid.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

then he should be declared incompetent

That is, it is impossible to come up with anything other than slogans.

Quote from alexoff

Yes, but everything is effective against cruise missiles, even small-caliber artillery.

If he manages to hit the target.

Quote from alexoff

For example, shoot at the bridge in Zatoka.

Well, why? Just the other day, 10 missiles were fired at him without any problems. If there is a weapon that can hit at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, then they will use it, and you are suggesting that we run into a bayonet charge with a loaded machine gun in our hands.

Quote from alexoff

so after a year we only started to adapt

Here, yes, the command was not up to par.

[alexoff]

That is, it is impossible to come up with anything other than slogans.

This is not a slogan, but a definition of the word combat capability. Here in the article, the famous naval commander Patrushev writes that the fleet is combat capable and can show NATO. NATO has cruise missiles, our fleet is afraid of them and if the enemy has them, it becomes incapable of combat. Due to the widespread cowardice, incompetence and betrayal of the leadership, which stole money for the fleet, screwed up the repair and procurement program, conducted worthless exercises, and so on

If he manages to hit the target.

Well, if the probability is not 100%, then that's it, we stay at home

Well, why?

Well, why were they floating there, burning diesel fuel in vain? Shells are cheaper than missiles, the navy doesn't really use them, they spoil

Just the other day, 10 missiles were fired at it without any problems.

I must have missed something? You're not confusing it with anything?

If there is a weapon that can strike at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, then it is used, but you are suggesting that we run into a bayonet charge with a loaded machine gun in our hands.

and here it turns out that the blockade can be maintained not from a distance of a kilometer from the shore. By the way, missiles cost a lot of money, and the ships could simply cover a barge on which three Hurricanes would be installed, and for pennies in a week the Odessa port would be reduced to horns and legs. This is the most primitive option for using the fleet. But our admirals have not come up with anything smarter than using the fleet as expensive launchers. Calibers can be fired from land-based installations. For the price of a small missile ship, this launcher can be surrounded by a heel of armor, not a fly will fly through!

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

NATO has cruise missiles, our fleet is afraid of them and if the enemy has them it becomes incapable of combat.

NATO's fleet is also in no hurry to get close to the Houthi missiles.

Quote from alexoff

Shells are cheaper than missiles, the navy doesn't really use them, they deteriorate

So you have to get close to the shore to fire off a few 76-10mm shells for the sake of the process itself? The missiles hit targets at depths of hundreds of kilometers.

Quote from alexoff

I must have missed something?

Here is the article.
https://aif.ru/politics/world/metall-i-beton-stali-pylyu-nacistov-v-odesse-otrezali-ot-zapada-ukrainy

Quote from alexoff

and for pennies per week

And the enemy will just sit and watch this whole week?

[alexoff]

NATO's fleet is also in no hurry to get close to the Houthi missiles.

not standing right on the shore, but always within missile range. They are not too afraid, they have been loading dozens of anti-aircraft missiles onto their ships for a long time

So you need to approach the shore to fire several 76-10mm shells for the sake of the process itself?

There was a 130 mm cannon on Moscow, the range is said to be more than 20 km. Is that close to the shore?

The missiles hit targets at depths of hundreds of kilometers.

the fleet had enough for a couple of salvos, and then that's it, they fired one every month. The same calibers can be launched without ships

https://aif.ru/politics/world/metall-i-beton-stali-pylyu-nacistov-v-odesse-otrezali-ot-zapada-ukrainy

I can't believe that they found so many missiles for the bridge in the third year. We're waiting for some kind of confirmation.
Well, the bridge could have been demolished long ago, and at the same time practiced building radio-controlled boats and writing off the old anti-ship missiles

And the enemy will just sit and watch this whole week?

The enemy sat and watched our ships sailing near Odessa for over a month. Do you think they needed a reason?

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

but always within missile range

Do their opponents have AWACS aircraft and a satellite constellation?

Quote from alexoff

Is this close to the shore?

That is, in the zone of action of 152-mm howitzers and MLRS of all types. And the traditional question - for what purpose?

Quote from alexoff

I can't believe that they found so many missiles for the bridge in the third year

From CIPSO?

Quote from alexoff

I sat and watched our ships sailing near Odessa for over a month

The question is at what distance, what the enemy had at that time and what orders he received from his masters.

[alexoff]

Quote: Dart2027

Do their opponents have AWACS aircraft and a satellite constellation?

It turns out that satellites with AWACS are the main danger for ships? I think the Houthi allies can easily transmit the coordinates of American ships, in fact, they would not report the shot down missiles if they were flying God knows where. Well, here Patrushev writes something about NATO ships, we are ready against them, and they have satellites and AWACS, so we are not ready for combat against them?

Quote: Dart2027

That is, in the zone of action of 152-mm howitzers and MLRS of all types.

It feels like something like Heroes of Might and Magic is going on here, there is a shooter - he can shoot. But was this shooter in Odessa along the entire coast on the incredible Black Sea rampart, is he capable of shooting at a ship sailing at 30 knots, will he himself end up in the kill zone - let's leave that out of the equation. Snake Island was also within the MLRS range, but they only thought of shooting at it closer to summer.
And firing from cannons is the easiest option. Do you want a blockade? They should have poured mines along the coast, they can be poured from submarines now

Quote: Dart2027

And the traditional question - for what purpose?

What is the point of having a ship if cruise missiles can be launched from Sochi?

Quote: Dart2027

From CIPSO?

No, from the Kremlin. I found photos from Kassad, it doesn't look like 10 missiles, the bridge is functioning, he says. While someone will write how they are wasting five-ton Kh-32s on Zmeinoye for some reason, and how they are hitting the most important bridge with Iskanders that are not modified for such purposes, I will consider that the leadership is simulating a fight and sending signals to the enemy instead of fighting like human beings.

Quote: Dart2027

The question is at what distance,

the same 10-20 km

Quote: Dart2027

what the enemy had at that time

Yes, about the same as now

Quote: Dart2027

what orders did he receive from his masters

then the owners did not know what to expect and were just beginning to feel out the red lines, they were afraid to go to Kyiv, there were only 200 thousand people in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, most of them in Donbass and near Kiev. There was probably no one to send orders to, in the much larger Kharkov there was almost no one armed, but it turned out that our army builders were about as incompetent as the naval commanders...

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

Are AWACS satellites the main threat to ships? I think the Houthi allies could very well transmit the coordinates of American ships

Who are their allies and what are their capabilities?

Quote from alexoff

Well, here Patrushev writes something about NATO ships, we are ready against them

In the event of a direct conflict, their ships will also hide in order to avoid being hit by a missile.

Quote from alexoff

Let's leave that out of the equation

that is, it does exist.

Quote from alexoff

why do you need a ship anyway

So, we need to expose them to attacks just to show that they exist?

Quote from alexoff

I found photos from Kassad, it doesn’t look like 10 missiles, the bridge says it’s functioning.

Do you think that the complete destruction of bridges of this size is easy and simple? Apparently they threw in a temporary structure, although this is not a major overhaul, so the functionality of the bridge is greatly reduced.

Quote from alexoff

how for some reason they are using five-ton X-32s on Zmeinoye, and for some reason they are hitting the most important bridge with Iskanders that have not been modified for such purposes

The launch weight of the Iskander missile is 3,8 tons.

Quote from alexoff

I will consider that the leadership is simulating a fight and sending signals to the enemy instead of fighting like human beings.

Go ahead and show me how.

Quote from alexoff

the same 10-20 km

Will the source be?

Quote from alexoff

Yes, about the same as now

He received the missiles and BEKs much later.

Quote from alexoff

There were only 200 thousand people left in the Ukrainian Armed Forces

In February 2022, the number of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was approximately 260 thousand people, of which the ground forces - about 250 thousand people. But various kinds of armed formations are not the Armed Forces of Ukraine, so in reality it is much more.

[stankow]

The plane does not need to descend at the cruise missile's altitude. It attacks it from above.

[stankow]

Yes, the cruise missile is a slow, non-maneuvering target. It is not comparable to an aircraft in terms of difficulty of interception. But detection is difficult.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

The plane does not need to descend at the KR altitude

We're talking about ships.

Quote: stankow

Now, detection is difficult.

This is what we are talking about.

[Podvodnik]

. the sea is big and they need to be found.

The sea is big, compared to the lake. But the approaches to the bases are not the whole sea. And it is not difficult to detect the boats on the approach. This is if you keep watch as it should be, and not pretend. But if the situation changes, the enemy uses new tactics, you need to take countermeasures, use the appropriate technical means and weapons. Did they fight with torpedo boats in the Second World War? Or were there examples of how these same TCs sank a third of some fleet?
And the reason is clear as day. It is not the literate who advance, but the convenient. Here is the result.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Podvodnik

Did you fight with torpedo boats during World War II?

And they were almost completely submerged in water?

[Podvodnik]

. And they were almost completely submerged in water?

No BEKs are loaded anywhere. This is a regular R/C boat in displacement or planing mode. Otherwise, it will not develop high speed. And at low speed, it is a good target.
The radar detects the submarine periscope tens of kilometers away. And it is just an iron pipe sticking out of the water by a meter or one and a half without corner reflectors. And the BEK is also visible tens of kilometers away, like the periscope. It is not visible only if there is nothing to look at, or your eyes are staring in the wrong direction. Or you have given up on everything.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Podvodnik

And at low speed, he's a good target.

He only needs high speed at the moment of attack.

Quote: Podvodnik

The radar detects the submarine's periscope tens of kilometers away.

It can be more specific.

[Adrey]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

This is exactly what the West is trying to do with the Houthis, also unsuccessfully.

When was the last attack there? Or will you say that shipping through the Red Sea has ceased completely?

[Evil_well done]

So how many NATO ships did the Houthis sink? Please give me the whole list ©

[alexoff]

In a confined space, the enemy should be visible well and from afar. But I heard a story about how the Black Sea Fleet command stupidly ignored reports from civilians that the backs were splashing in the sea. There were generally many such strange stories that the previous admiral was supposedly working for the enemy, everything was done so ineptly

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

In a confined space, the enemy must be visible well and from afar.

Seeing it is one thing, but capturing it all is quite another.

Quote from alexoff

It was as if the previous admiral was working for the enemy, everything was done so ineptly

Maybe, but one can only guess here.

[alexoff]

Seeing it is one thing, but capturing it all is quite another.

Well, yes, here you need to turn on your brains, do something, it's not like arranging sailors on the deck at a parade. Conduct exercises, weld machine guns with thermal imagers (a good thermal imager, by the way, costs about a thousand or even ten thousand less than a ship), Maviks, Orlans, all that stuff.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

Well, yes, here you need to turn on your brain and do something

And it's done. But the enemy can create such a concentration of fire that it will simply overwhelm with iron. How many BEKs were used against "Kotov"? 25 at a time.

[alexoff]

How many BEKs were used against "Kotov"? 25 at a time.

looks like nonsense
And the enemy can create, but does not create. He is modest, waiting for something

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

looks like nonsense

Why? He fought off attacks in small groups several times, and the enemy overwhelmed him with numbers. A completely logical decision.

[alexoff]

Over what period of time? Over a year?

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

For how long is this?

I'm talking about the last attack in which he was sunk. Before that, he fought off small groups twice.

[alexoff]

And there they drove 25 backs into the bay for one Kotov? It sounds like a lie.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

And there they drove 25 backs into the bay for one Kotov?

What's strange? If attacks by small groups do not bring results, then there are two options - either new, significantly more advanced BECs, or simply increase their number, fortunately they are cheaper anyway.
All those who shout about some kind of blockade of the coast do not understand a simple fact - earlier this was done due to the fact that the ships were beyond the means of destruction located on the shore. In our time, the time of missiles and all sorts of drones, such a thing is basically impossible.

[alexoff]

What's strange? If attacks by small groups do not bring results, then there are two options - either new, significantly more advanced BECs, or simply increase their number, fortunately they are cheaper anyway.

It's strange because it doesn't look like what happened.

Previously, this was done due to the fact that the ships were beyond the range of weapons located on the shore.

Like they didn't send long-range fire ships before? And before - when was that?
By the way, how many ships were sunk when trying to set up a blockade? And how many when they were simply anchored in a port or in the middle of the sea, not expecting any attack due to the lack of any intelligence?

In our time, the time of rockets and all kinds of drones, something like this is basically impossible.

and what tasks can the fleet perform in our time? After all, missiles are cheaper than ships (just like bullets are cheaper than soldiers), it is impossible to shoot them down (after all, they will send a thousand of them, and what to do?), and drones are generally a terrible force! And the fact that since the removal of the previous head of the Black Sea Fleet, not a single ship has been lost is not because it is worth checking for the presence of foreign real estate, but simply because the enemies have run out of drones, they cannot send a hundred cheap ones

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

It's strange because it doesn't look like what happened.

What?

Quote from alexoff

Like they didn't send long-range fire ships before? And before - when was that?

The use of fire ships was not so widespread, and earlier it was before WWII. Even then the fleet was terrified by air attacks, which could sink any ship, at much lower cost.

Quote from alexoff

By the way, how many ships were sunk during the attempt to establish a blockade?

And was it arranged?

Quote from alexoff

What tasks can a fleet perform in our time?

Depends on what and where. I repeat once again that the World Cup is an isolated area that is shot through and visible. Is there anything to say about this?

Quote from alexoff

And since the previous head of the Black Sea Fleet was removed, not a single ship has been lost.

They stopped sending them to sea for unclear purposes.

[alexoff]

Quote: Dart2027

What?

Chase in the bay from three or four boats

Quote: Dart2027

The use of fire ships was not as widespread as it was before WWII.

They fought normally with fire ships, but now only the Russian fleet suffers from boats, when they don't give a damn about what's going on around them and how the fleet doesn't function. Everyone is on their own, the maximum they can do is evacuate the crew. It's unclear whether they know such a phrase as "struggle for survivability", since this method was used to pull ships back from the brink of death in WWII. The crew was evacuated from the "Moscow" around midnight, and the cruiser sank in the afternoon. And this is despite the fact that our opponents' missiles are designed for ships four to five times smaller, and a twenty-thousand-ton ship needs a lot of such missiles or Russian heavy ones like Granit.

Quote: Dart2027

At that time, the fleet was terrified by air attacks that could sink any ship at a much lower cost.

Our Black Sea Fleet was not terrorized, although there were raids, even mines were dropped in ports. There was anti-aircraft fire, there was camouflage in ports (a barge was camouflaged as a ship, a ship as a barge, now they don’t even try), a struggle for survivability.

Quote: Dart2027

And was it arranged?

well, like, although it turned out later that it was just a trade in small change, they weren't ready for anything combat-related, as soon as the enemy's shock wore off, it turned out that the ships themselves not only weren't showing any activity, but weren't even reacting. So what to do?

Quote: Dart2027

I repeat once again that the World Cup is an isolated area, which is shot through and visible. Is there anything to say about this?

The World Cup is only clearly visible to the enemy, as it turns out. And it is isolated only for us, the enemies are swimming, the enemies are seeing, the enemies are moving.

Quote: Dart2027

They stopped sending them to sea for unclear purposes.

so they flew and sailed in ports. They remembered about helicopters, started some exercises on shooting from the deck, bought FPV drones.

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

Chase in the bay from three or four boats

He successfully fought off 3-4.

Quote from alexoff

It is unclear whether they know such a phrase as "struggle for survivability" there, since this technique was used to pull ships back from the brink of death in WWII.

Back then, the ships were different, now the hulls and supporting structures are as light as possible. By the way, it is unclear what was there at all. The photos that were circulating on the Internet somehow did not look much like traces of missiles, so it is possible that everything on the ship was simply worn out.

Quote from alexoff

There was anti-aircraft fire, there was camouflage in ports (a barge was camouflaged as a ship, a ship as a barge, now they don’t even try), a fight for survivability.

Well, what global benefit did the fleet of that time bring? No need to talk about some heroes, but the fleet as a whole?

Quote from alexoff

well, like, although later it turned out that it was just a trade in small change, they weren’t ready for anything combat-oriented

So was it or not?

Quote from alexoff

enemies swim, enemies see, enemies move.

So what kind of Ukrainian Navy ships are sailing there?

Quote from alexoff

so things flew and sailed along them in the ports.

And they were transferred to other bases.

[alexoff]

He successfully fought off 3-4.

in the open sea yes, but when it was squeezed into a bay with other ships where it was impossible to turn around, it was no longer possible. And the fact that boats suddenly appear in the port is a question for the fleet as a whole. There are fists, but no eyes (intelligence) or brains (admirals)

Back then, ships were different; now, hulls and supporting structures are as light as possible.

ships made of cardboard can also be saved

The photos that were circulating on the Internet didn't really look like traces of missiles, so it's possible that everything on the ship was simply worn out.

from my sofa you can see what hit the gun turret with the ammunition fire, this place was in smoke, and what is on the bottom is even more unclear. But the fact is that the ship remained afloat for a long time, abandoned by the crew.

Well, what global benefit did the fleet of that time bring? No need to talk about some heroes, but the fleet as a whole?

fleet in the local sea, brought local benefit. Evacuated Odessa and Sevastopol, actively worked in Moldova. The share of losses for the entire war is less than now

So was it or not?

technically it was not installed, the enemy mined himself

So what kind of Ukrainian Navy ships are sailing there?

unmanned ships, and all sorts of boats.

And they were transferred to other bases.

where it most likely does not sail by agreement, since we do not interfere with sailing to Odessa

[Dart2027]

Quote from alexoff

hit the gun turret with a fire of ammunition, the place was in smoke

If this were the case, then if not half the ship, then a quarter would have been blown to pieces.

Quote from alexoff

He evacuated Odessa and Sevastopol and worked actively in Moldova.

Moldova is Odessa, it was part of it then. Well, a lot of "good" things have been written about the evacuation at that time.

Quote from alexoff

unmanned ships, well

With the same success, any drone can be classified as aviation.

Quote from alexoff

because we don't interfere with sailing to Odessa

Are you aware of the ships blown up by our missiles?

Quote from alexoff

And what about boats that suddenly appear in the port?

Was he in the port? I don't think so.

[Sergey39]

How will the Black Sea Fleet inspect ships sailing in cabotage through the territorial waters of Bulgaria and Romania and along the Danube?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Sergey39

How will the Black Sea Fleet inspect ships sailing in cabotage through the territorial waters of Bulgaria and Romania and along the Danube?

Did the Americans bother much with enforcing the laws during the naval blockade of Cuba?

[Sobol]

Quote: Starover_Z

Did the Americans bother much with enforcing the laws during the naval blockade of Cuba?

Probably because there was no one to fear. Whose fleets (anti-ship missiles, aviation, etc.) could stop them?

[blackGRAIL]

With such a route, the tonnage of ships drops sharply. But I still say that we have created problems for ships passing through the Black Sea Fleet - such that Kyiv responded to them very sharply and painfully for us. The Black Sea Fleet tried to fulfill the tasks inherent to the fleet and it failed with one, and it was forced to stop the second.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

We were unable to inspect a single vessel, but we apparently created difficulties for the enemy, since the response to our unsuccessful attempts at inspections was attacks on our tankers in the Black Sea. And here the Black Sea Fleet demonstrated its complete inability to protect our merchant shipping. The conclusions were quick - Russia stopped trying to conduct inspections, withdrew the ships and never mentioned it again.

Hmm... And that's why enemy sea transports with ammunition, weapons, missile launchers and unmanned boats are sinking, burning and exploding in the Odessa port. As for blocking the coast of the Zionist-Ukrainians... And what about the fact that starting from the Bosphorus, ships with NATO weapons and missile launchers are sailing in the territorial waters of NATO countries? Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and oops... Straight from Izmail to Odessa... Where do you propose to carry out the inspection? In Turkey?

[alexoff]

And that is why enemy sea transports with ammunition, weapons, missile launchers and unmanned boats are sinking, burning and exploding in the Odessa port.

and Iskanders fly there. The Black Sea Fleet doesn't have Iskanders, just like it doesn't have geraniums.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from alexoff

The Black Sea Fleet does not have Iskanders in its arsenal, just as it does not have geraniums.

"-Do you see Gopher? -No... -But he is there!.."

[alexoff]

Well, yes, now we’ll also enroll the Aerospace Forces in the Black Sea Fleet and the fleet will show everyone!

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from alexoff

Well, yes, now we’ll also enroll the Aerospace Forces in the Black Sea Fleet and the fleet will show everyone!

The Black Sea Fleet has aviation... There are coastal missile systems, there are unmanned aircraft, there are coastal troops, there is naval air defense... The fleet is not just a ship with guns at sea. A complex complex of ship repair and instrument-making enterprises, and off we go... mine arsenals, torpedo arsenals, missile and artillery storage bases, mines, torpedo arsenals, fuel and lubricant storage facilities, ten people work on shore for every sailor...

[alexoff]

The Black Sea Fleet has aviation

Yeah, several Ka-29s and some Su-30s, which they learned to send individually after enemy back-up aircraft and boats. There were losses among them. But the navy, which is a ship-based one, does not fight. Its pilots defend it at the cost of their lives, since they are poorly suited for the targets at hand.

unmanned aircraft

like they were forced to buy FPV drones? I didn't see any eagles tracking the backs

for every sailor there are ten people working on shore

and all these sailors are useless, because the command is incompetent, they can't do anything, they don't know how to use the fleet, everything they do goes wrong. And those who are higher up have screwed up the shipbuilding program, they've been building small missile ships for 10 years. And thus not one sailor is useless, but the work of 10 more people becomes meaningless.

[blackGRAIL]

It is written about a specific failed Black Sea Fleet, a typical naval operation. The fleet copes with the role of floating launchers with flying colors - bravo. But you did not read carefully - the actions of the Black Sea Fleet led to problems for the enemy and he responded - i.e. there was an effect. The mission was embellished not because it was senseless, but because the enemy clearly showed us that the Black Sea Fleet can only be a floating launcher and nothing more. It cannot protect from anyone.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

Missy was embellished not because of senselessness, but because the enemy clearly showed us that the Black Sea Fleet can only be a floating launcher and nothing more. It cannot protect against anyone.

Was the Black Sea Fleet tasked with destroying the enemy fleet? The enemy fleet was destroyed. The task was to block the movement of ships in the Black Sea. No. Was the task set to destroy the port of Odessa, Izmail, Nikolaev? No, there were no such tasks. There was a grain deal, some murky negotiations on nitrogen coming to Odessa, a lot of murk and few specific tasks. As they were led (by the Ministry of Defense), so the combat missions were carried out.

[blackGRAIL]

Protecting one's own merchant shipping is the a priori task of any fleet. The Black Sea Fleet was unable to fulfill this task.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

Protecting one's own merchant shipping is the a priori task of any fleet. The Black Sea Fleet was unable to fulfill this task.

And that someone is sinking Russian tankers and dry cargo ships with wheat? Bulk carriers with goods? I have not heard of such a thing.. And no one has heard or seen it.. So, your visions are from the realm of hallucinations.

[blackGRAIL]

It was all over the news, even now have you tried typing it into a search engine? A tanker and a transport (dry cargo ship) were attacked and damaged. Here is the news about the first one.

https://www.rbc.ru/politics/05/08/2023/64cdefbe9a79475eb2dbc6d1

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

A tanker and a transport (dry cargo ship) were attacked and damaged.

Where did it thunder in your country? In what news? By Ziono-Ukrainian drones. Which attacked the Crimean Bridge. The claims are not against the Black Sea Fleet, but against the Air Defense and Aerospace Forces of the Russian Federation. And in your Ziono-Ukrainian news, there is no thunder about the destruction of p. n. dossian gifts in the port of Odessa? No?

[seamen2]

*And who is sinking Russian tankers and dry cargo ships with wheat? Bulk carriers with goods*.
If the Ukrainians WANTED to do it, they would do it. For example, the tanker *Sig*.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from seamen2

tanker *Sig*.

Sunk at sea, during the crossing? No? .. that's it ... - "On the night of August 4-5, 2023, the ship was attacked by a Ukrainian sea drone near the Kerch Bridge" - It was attacked near the Crimean Bridge. Doesn't that mean anything to you? No? There was an attack on the bridge. And a small tanker got hit. Near the bridge. And ours are now systematically sinking sea transports in Odessa, Izmail and other Ziono-Ukrainian ports. But these events are somehow modestly covered by our and especially Bandrosionist media. Are they embarrassed or something ...

[seamen2]

I know better. This back crawled among the ships for at least half an hour. Then he chose a tanker. And it wasn't you who had a Ukrainian drone flying over your head at night in March. And there are many ships below. Shoot at your choice. And then he flew off to Taman. He was intercepted by a helicopter.
But before that, if the Ukrainian operator WANTED to, he would have hit ANY ship.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from seamen2

If the Ukrainians WANTED,

If the Bandera Zionists did this, then not a single ship from their ports would ever go to sea again.

[gribanov.c]

Land the troops and provide fire support for the landing of the troops, place mine banks on the approach routes of enemy transports

[Dart2027]

Quote from gribanow.c

Land the troops and provide fire support for the landing of the troops

AK-192 hits at 23 km. How far do 155 mm howitzers, MLRS, etc. hit? Should I tell you or do you already know?

Quote from gribanow.c

place mine banks on the approach routes of enemy transports

On which the left ships will sink.

[gribanov.c]

What prevents ship artillery installations from being improved? So that they are not inferior in range to land-based ones, up to 60-70 km (with an active-reactive projectile). This means that artillery ships need to be revived as a class, specifically to support landing operations.
They can perform this task together with aviation, but it cannot always work.

[Dart2027]

Quote from gribanow.c

This means that it is necessary to revive the artillery ship class, specifically to support landing operations.

But the exchange of 20-30 SPGs for one frigate-class ship will still be advantageous to the enemy, and in addition to guns, there are also various missiles and drones. A cheap UAV will send the ship for expensive and long repairs. In general, landings from ships to the shore, overcoming enemy defenses, are a thing of the past, which is why UDCs appeared - the point of which is that the landing force is sent on boats and helicopters, and the ship itself is kept at a maximum distance.
If we are talking about a ship that can operate near the coast, then it should be a classic battleship - huge, with 200 mm guns, and armored to the max.

[gribanov.c]

Quote: Dart2027

A cheap UAV will send a ship for expensive and time-consuming repairs.

If so, is this the end of the entire American centuries-old concept of defending its nation across two oceans? Sail up and take it, the number and quality and composition of the fleet now mean nothing, against a swarm of drones

[Dart2027]

Quote from gribanow.c

If so, is this the end of the entire American centuries-old concept of protecting its state across two oceans?

Everything goes to this.

[spektr9]

A cheap UAV will send a ship for expensive and time-consuming repairs.

I wonder how the US fought during WWII when Japanese kamikazes tried to blow them up? Maybe it's time to install normal air defense on ships, and not two arrows without ammunition that rusted back in the mid-90s?

[Dart2027]

Quote: spektr9

when Japanese kamikazes tried to blow them up

A kamikaze plane is a much easier target than modern drones and missiles.

[spektr9]

A kamikaze plane is a much easier target than modern drones and missiles.

What is simple, the same wooden fuselage which is almost invisible on radar, especially in the 40s, the same speed as a UAV... If there is a desire, the means will be found, but here there is no desire to develop the fleet, that's all

[Dart2027]

Quote: spektr9

the same speed as the BLPA

Only the dimensions are much larger, and most importantly, there is a person inside who wants to live, and even if he is ready to sacrifice himself, it still leaves an imprint on his actions.

[stankow]

.a cheap UAV will send a ship for expensive and time-consuming repairs

How exactly? Drop a 3D-printed grenade on it? Will you shoot down an elephant with buckshot?

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

Drop a 3D printed grenade on him?

Will throw it on an expensive radar.

[stankow]

You still need to fly to the ship at sea. Find it. Overcome the air defense. Is a "penny drone" capable of this? And the ship has more than one antenna. After it fails, it will not stop, it will continue to perform the combat mission.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

You still need to fly to the ship at sea. Find it.

Getting there is not a problem, because the ships must approach the shore at a distance of a cannon shot, and this is a couple of dozen kilometers; finding it is the same.

Quote: stankow

Overcome air defense.

Air defense has a finite resource of missiles and shells, and missiles also cost a pretty penny.

Quote: stankow

And the ship has more than one antenna. After it fails, it will not stop, but continue to carry out its combat mission.

So it should hang around near the shore for some unknown reason, and being half-blind? And even if so, it won't need to be repaired later?

[stankow]

The ship does not rely on just one radar. It also has good old optics. It has a helicopter, and already drones. So it will shoot at the shore. Miniguns without radar - put it, fight with submarines with a bomb launcher, launch torpedoes when necessary. Combat stability is considerable, drones will only scratch it.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

So he shoots back along the shore.

From a 130mm (maximum) cannon? Why can you clearly answer?

Quote: stankow

Miniatures without radar - install, fight submarines with a bomb launcher, launch torpedoes when necessary.

So who should he launch bombs and torpedoes at? A submarine in the Ukrainian steppes or something?

Quote: Dart2027

And even if so, it won't need to be repaired later?

I take it that it is not necessary?

[stankow]

I don't quite understand you. A drone can only scratch a combat ship. If it finds it, if it catches up, if it breaks through, if it hits the radar. But because of this, the ship will not stop, it will continue to perform its combat mission. There are many antennas, different information channels, different weapons, many tasks. It will remain in service, especially afloat.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

But because of this the ship will not stop and will continue to carry out its combat mission.

I never heard the answer to the question.

Quote: Dart2027

Why can you answer clearly?

What combat mission should he perform off the enemy coast?

Quote: stankow

It will remain in service, especially afloat.

I never heard the answer to the question.

Quote: Dart2027

And even if so, it won't need to be repaired later?

[stankow]

Near the shore? Escort of ships, supply of mines, protection of pipelines, towers, islands, landing, support of landing, air defense of landing and other ships. We'll see. After all, the fleet worked well on Zmeinoye.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

Escort of ships

Our ships going to the ports of Ukraine? Uh...

Quote: stankow

supply of mines, protection of pipelines, towers, islands

They manage just fine there without them.

Quote: stankow

landing, landing support, air defense of landing

What landing force? Where and why?

Quote: stankow

The fleet worked well on Zmeiny.

And not only on it. Only this is done by missiles, which are launched from a safe distance.

[stankow]

1 tanker, from Novorossiysk

2 Turkish Stream, Crimean Bridge - the fleet is guarding

3 Zmeiny, Kinburn Spit, the mouth of the Dnieper, landings and repulse from landings will still happen. And without a fleet, no way.

4 The island could not be taken with missiles alone, and it is not possible. They approached, landed, evacuated, covered, and fought off aircraft, everything as it should be

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

tanker, from Novorossiysk

And is anyone bothering them at all? And are they going near the coast of Ukraine, where they propose to drive the fleet?

Quote: stankow

Turkish Stream, Crimean Bridge - the fleet is guarding

Protects. I ask again - why drive the fleet to the enemy shore?

Quote: stankow

Zmeiny, Kinburn Spit, the mouth of the Dnieper, landings and repulse from landings will still happen.

When (if) they will be there will be something to talk about. Is someone planting them now?

Quote: stankow

They approached, landed, evacuated, provided cover, and shot back at aircraft, everything as it should be.

Well, what's the point? Why did they land if they had to leave anyway because it was impossible to hold on?

[stankow]

1 exactly - they don't touch. Because they protect

2 to get close to the enemy. To force a fight. To accomplish a task

3 landings took place at the indicated places. Several. And they are still standing, for example on the spit

4 sometimes you have to leave. By the way, for a safe departure you also need to get closer to foreign shores and you also need a fleet.

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

exactly - they don't touch. Because they protect

That everyone goes accompanied by a fleet?

Quote: stankow

to get close to the enemy. To engage in combat. To accomplish a task.

And? What task?

Quote: stankow

there were landings at the indicated places. Several. And they are still standing, for example on the spit

Really? Is it on that spit that starts in the liberated territories? And what kind of landing force was there, can you tell me more?

Quote: stankow

By the way, for safe departure, you also need to get closer to foreign shores and you also need a fleet

And if you don’t do anything stupid, you won’t have to leave.

[stankow]

1 along the route of advancement, guard ships are deployed. And submarines. You don't see them, but they are there.

2 tasks are many - patrol, reconnaissance, protection, escort, air defense, anti-submarine warfare. That's what the fleet is for. Yes, there are no major battles. It means - the sailors are working correctly. The pipe, bridge, harbors, docks, tankers, dry cargo ships, ferries are working. Otherwise, there is no victory. Yes, the fleet paid a heavy price. Honor to it!

3 on the spit there were two landings and two repulses. Read VO

4 in war, so to speak, you have to leave

[Dart2027]

Quote: stankow

You don't see them, but they are there.

That is not.

Quote: stankow

There are many tasks - patrol, reconnaissance, security, escort, air defense, anti-submarine warfare. That's what the navy is for.

Specifically, what should the fleet do now off the coast of Ukraine?

Quote: stankow

there were two landings and two reflections on the spit

This is when our guys calmly shot the Ukrainian Armed Forces? And why is the navy here?

Quote: stankow

at war, so to speak

And? Show up to leave?

[shin]

And also block the transportation of military and civilian cargo to Ukrainian ports and conduct landing operations. Otherwise, what is the point of a fleet hiding?

[Ivan F]

Well, for starters, at least not to lose ships at the berth walls, while remaining in their place. And the main thing is to block the enemy ports. So that all sorts of "grain deal" people don't wander there, and then we don't have to throw missiles at the berths where all this "stuff" was brought and laid out. That would be enough.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ivan F

Well, and the main thing is blocking the enemy's ports

So you're suggesting that we expose them to the blows of everything that exists? This isn't the 19th century.

[Ivan F]

Well, that means, according to you, our fleet is ready for combat operations only at the level of the 19th century. And for the 20th century, and especially the 21st, apparently not, since as you say - it cannot take part, because it will expose itself to attack. And to repel attacks and deliver its own, apparently, the fleet, according to you, is not capable. Well then, indeed, it should not take part in combat operations, as you said. But not because there is nothing else to do, but because it does not want to expose itself to attack.
In general, you have a good excuse - "you propose to expose them to attacks", tankers, pilots, infantry, who have been under attack for 3 years, apparently also need to be taken into service.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ivan F

And apparently, according to your words, the fleet is not capable of repelling attacks and delivering its own.

Actually, he does deliver them. With missiles.

Quote: Ivan F

Tankers, pilots, and infantry, who have been under attack for 3 years now, apparently also need to take this into service

They did it a long time ago. Tankers do not try to make dashing breakthroughs in the spirit of WWII, but make short sorties, trying to get away from a retaliatory strike as quickly as possible. Aviation began to operate at full force only after bombs appeared that glide for tens of kilometers, which allows them to stay at a significant distance from the front line. And the infantry tries not to expose themselves unnecessarily, although of course it is more difficult for them.

[Ivan F]

"Actually, he does inflict them. With missiles." - ah, our Black Sea Fleet fleet is exclusively floating launch platforms for missiles. And I thought it was for gaining supremacy at sea.

"They did it a long time ago." - they didn't. Tanks are fighting fiercely, and not only tanks, but also infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, although they are not designed for this. Mines, artillery, grenade launchers, drones and nothing, they do not hide but move forward. Aircraft and helicopters are fighting in the zone of the densest enemy air defense. There is nothing to say about the infantry - assaults on strongholds and cities under a hail of bullets from the defenders, under artillery and mortar shells and under an innumerable number of all kinds of drones. And only the Black Sea Fleet should not expose itself to attacks. And even with this, it managed to lose almost a quarter of its watercraft.

Although in essence you are right - because of how and with what results the Black Sea Fleet conducted combat operations, it is absolutely unclear what it should do, except occasionally launch a couple of missiles.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ivan F

The Black Sea Fleet fleet is exclusively floating launch platforms for missiles. And I thought it was for gaining supremacy at sea

The same one that can be shot through?

Quote: Ivan F

Tanks are engaged in fierce battles, and

There are no signs of any daring breakthroughs in the spirit of WWII.

Quote: Ivan F

Airplanes and helicopters are fighting in the zone of the densest enemy air defense

Really? They're bombing Kyiv right now?

[spektr9]

So you're suggesting that we expose them to the blows of everything that exists? This isn't the 19th century.

In the 20th century, during the First World War, our not very formidable Baltic fleet managed to mine the Gulf of Finland so much that a squadron of Kaiser's destroyers, 7 in number, went to the bottom... What prevents this operation from being repeated 120 years later off the coast of Odessa? Probably the same thing that prevents the bridges across the Dnieper from being demolished

[Dart2027]

Quote: spektr9

What prevents this operation from being repeated in 120 years off the coast of Odessa?

For example, the fact that the Ukrainian fleet has already been destroyed, and sinking civilian ships of neutral countries is not a good idea.

[spektr9]

For example, the fact that the Ukrainian fleet has already been destroyed, and sinking civilian ships of neutral countries is not a good idea.

That is, mining the sea from the entry of convoys with weapons and equipment for Ukraine is not a good idea, well, everything is clear with you ... This is what is called political impotence

[Dart2027]

Quote: spektr9

Well, everything is clear with you

That is, there is nothing to argue.

[spektr9]

That is, there is nothing to argue.

Well, what can I say to a traitor to the motherland? I can only advise you to put you up against the wall...

[Dart2027]

Quote: spektr9

I can only advise you to put you against the wall

That is, there is nothing to argue.

[AdAstra]

"
ramzay21
(Vasiliy)
+40

Yesterday, 20: 27
New
You can talk halva as much as you like, but it won't make it any sweeter. We have all observed the combat capability of the Black Sea Fleet since 2022 during military operations against a country without a fleet, and only a headless horseman can call the fleet combat-ready, looking at the country without a fleet fleeing from attacks behind tankers in Novorossiysk.
A combat-ready Black Sea Fleet had to reliably block the entire coast of Ukraine and blockade it for the entire duration of the SVO, as well as suppress coastal air defense, aviation, radars and ensure the conduct of a landing operation in the Odessa region, transfer troops there and ensure their supply. Then the Black Sea Fleet could be considered combat-ready."
Here.

[Dart2027]

Quote from AdAstra

The combat-ready Black Sea Fleet was supposed to reliably block the entire coast of Ukraine and maintain its blockade throughout the entire period of the Northern Military District, as well as suppress coastal air defense, aviation, radars, and ensure the conduct of a landing operation in the Odessa region, transfer troops there, and provide them with supplies.

Are you confusing the 21st century with the 19th?

[AdAstra]

So, what about you?"""""

[Dart2027]

Quote from AdAstra

So, what about you?

That is, they got confused.

[FRoman1984]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote from alexoff

but since 2022, as a fleet, it has not participated in the SVO, except for rare launches of calibers and the participation of marines in ground combat operations

I don't remember how many times this has been said. What specific part should he take in it?

Block the Black Sea for the Ukrainian Navy and cut off cargo delivery to the port of Odessa, for example.
The Black Sea Fleet was unable to do this and is hiding in Novorossiysk.
Patrushev is an old senile man who lives in his own reality.

[Dart2027]

Quote: FRoman1984

Block the Black Sea for the Ukrainian Navy

Please show me this very Ukrainian Navy at the World Cup.

[Nastia makarova]

Which parts do not take part in their own?

[alexoff]

And where there are conscripts, they don't participate. There are plenty of them in the central district. Or do you know of any empty military units?

[Nastia makarova]

There are conscripts in almost all units and these units have been participating in their own from the first days, the units are empty, there are only conscripts in them and those who are on rotation, although conscripts also participate indirectly, the logistics of everything and everyone on the territory of Russia also takes a lot of effort

[alexoff]

There are conscripts in almost all units and these units take part in their activities from the first days.

conscripts do not take part in it after the first days of the SVO

the parts are empty

What units are empty? In Crimea, because all the marines went to fight? Or maybe the Moscow region units of the engineering troops, which after September 2022 left the Kharkov direction? Or the Taman division? Or the NHBZ units from the Vladimir region? A bunch of units left the SVO and volunteers are fighting in their place. The same with the Black Sea Fleet

They only have conscripts and those who are on rotation

So our entire army gets the perks of being a SVO participant? A dubious statement.

conscripts also participate indirectly, logistics of everything and everyone across Russia also takes a lot of effort

logistics are carried out by rail transport. Do conscripts from units scattered all over the country push trains? Or are they all taken to military factories in Tula and other Izhevsk cities to load wagons manually? And then these wagons are taken to Donetsk Oblast to unload? Are you by any chance equating the heroes of the Stalingrad Front with the fighters of the Tashkent Front?

[Nastia makarova]

they also accept it as, indirectly, on the territory of Russia there are also many things to do for their own, combat is only half of everything

military towns are empty, practically all over Russia, and tell me that the Strategic Missile Forces are in full force, and the infantry, tanks and artillery are all there, or near the border

conscripts are drivers and loaders and preparing equipment before shipment, delivery of everything from matches to shells, and the soldiers of Stalingrad and Tashkent are all the same, they all forged victory, some went on the attack and some made stew

[alexoff]

military towns are empty, practically all over Russia

Apparently the Moscow region is not Russia

tank

Could you tell me in what direction Tamanskaya and Kantemirovskaya have been operating for the last couple of years? Because our combat operations are going on for a couple of hundred kilometers, in other places the front is at a standstill, in some places it has been motionless since March 2022, attacks in small groups and somewhere there a million people are sitting, the saturation of the front near Kremennaya seems to be greater than near Stalingrad.

conscripts are drivers, loaders and equipment preparation before shipment

yeah, in their units somewhere in Mordovia they reload something back and forth to send to the SVO zone every day three hundred thousand conscripts, and then three hundred thousand trucks go to Donetsk

the fighters of stalingrad and tashkent are all the same, they all forged victory, some went on the attack and some made stew

Now you'll also consider yourself a hero as a fighter on the couch front?

[Nastia makarova]

Tamanskaya and Kantemirovskaya are part of the first tank army, 1st army from the very beginning and to this day in the North Military District!!!

Well, not everywhere there are breakthroughs and attacks, somewhere there is positional warfare, this is normal!!!

no need to exaggerate, who said that all 300? mainly from those parts that are in the main composition on their own

I won't help myself because I didn't help with anything other than 4 thousand. For example, in Sochi, volunteers sew massetas. They also work for victory and can be proud and tell their grandchildren.

[alexoff]

Tamanskaya and Kantemirovskaya are part of the first tank army, 1st army from the very beginning and to this day in the North Military District!!!

in full force there? Or maybe the majority is engaged in training conscripts and pretends that they have nothing to do with it? And only mobilized and new contract soldiers are sent there?

mainly from those parts that are in the main composition on their own

and they don't really give them conscripts now

I won't help myself because I didn't help with anything other than 4 thousand. For example, in Sochi, volunteers sew massetas. They also work for victory and can be proud and tell their grandchildren.

Well, yes, you can easily equate those who sacrifice everything with those who sacrifice little. However, I don't think so, and during the Great Patriotic War, medals and orders went more to the troops, and not to those who guarded Tashkent.

[Nastia makarova]

that you are like a small one, there is no one in full force of any part, and the main mass is only on their own, the rest are engaged in conscripts but this is a small part. on their own of course only mobilized and contract soldiers only

Who is not given conscripts?
it was precisely everyone who was equalized after the Great Patriotic War, it was always the same in other wars, the fact that you don't think it's fair is just your opinion, medals are different, you can have your whole chest in medals or you can have 1 for bravery, those who need to will see everything, but in general there has never been a division between who participated in the war

[Sergei Fonov]

Victory at the front is impossible without a strong rear. The front needs ammunition, tanks, artillery, planes, shells, mines, uniforms and equipment. All this is produced in the rear, and everything needs to be delivered, as well as gasoline and diesel fuel, food and lumber, and many other things from cigarettes to medicines.

[tralflot1832]

By the way, today the frigate "Admiral Golovko" (SF) passed through the English Channel. Did the Royal Navy of England escort it or express concern? Or maybe they didn't even notice!

[Mikhail m]

As Putin's aide emphasized, Russia will not allow the permanent presence in the Black Sea of ​​naval forces of non-Black Sea states attempting to overcome the prohibitions of the Montreux Convention.

Are we going to sink it? Or draw a red line in the sea? You can still express indignation at the violation. The world is sliding towards the rule of force, and if there is no force, then there is nothing to object to.

[blackGRAIL]

The presence of NATO forces in the World Cup is completely legal, provided that they did not enter it through the Black Sea straits.

[Soldatov V.]

The sailors are not to blame for the current state of the Black Sea Fleet. Yes, we can take the fleet out to sea on patrol, but their weapons do not allow them to defend themselves against anti-ship missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and UAVs. They need to be re-armed to counter these threats. Start with at least one ship, it will withstand these weapons at the testing ground, and then spread to all ships.

[Andrey Victorovich]

If the fleet, being on combat duty in the open sea, is not able to protect itself from unmanned aerial vehicles, anti-ship missiles and UAVs, then what kind of combat capability can we talk about? Or are we talking about a coastal (port) fleet?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Andrey Victorovich

If the fleet, being on combat duty in the open sea, is not able to protect itself from unmanned aerial vehicles, anti-ship missiles and UAVs, then what kind of combat capability can we talk about? Or are we talking about a coastal (port) fleet?

So the shores are covered only on TV!
And if we remember September 22, 2023, when they struck the Navy headquarters in Sevastopol?

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Andrey Victorovich

If the fleet, being on combat duty in the open sea, is unable to protect itself from unmanned aerial vehicles, anti-ship missiles and UAVs, then what kind of combat capability of the fleet can we talk about? Or are we talking about the coastal (port) fleet?

about purely "parade" combat capability!!

[wladimirjankov]

The sailors are not to blame for the current state of the Black Sea Fleet.

And who, if not the sailors with their admirals and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, is responsible for its combat readiness? Why did the appearance of the enemy's BC come as a complete surprise to them? The Nazis began building their "mosquito fleet" long before the start of the Central Military District. And the naval commanders of the Black Sea Fleet knew about it. But they did not take any serious measures to combat it.

[alexoff]

Why did the appearance of the enemy's BC come as a complete surprise to them?

Yes, everything there turned out to be a complete surprise, both cruise missiles, and back-up missiles, and even a Bayraktar shooting at our boats suddenly appeared in the sky. Probably, some torpedo boat of the First World War level or a steam destroyer with a pole mine from 1870 would have been just as unexpected.

They could at least line up sailors with MANPADS and machine guns on the deck. Last week it turned out that in the Caspian Air Defense Flotilla above the main base there were men with Kalashnikovs, not even a Zushka was found, not to mention something with missiles, at least some wasp...

[BAI]

Moscow will not allow the naval presence of non-Black Sea states in the Black Sea.

How? To do this, you must not be afraid to sink other people's ships, and the top brass of Russia will be afraid. Gone are the days when Putin said that the sinking of a British destroyer is not a reason for war. Now they are afraid to even think about it.
And, in general, no one will ask Russia. As with NATO expansion

[Evgeniy68]

If ships deliver ammunition and equipment directly to Odessa, how does this characterize the Black Sea Fleet and if the fleet is combat-ready, what tasks does it perform?

[wladimirjankov]

The Black Sea Fleet is combat-ready, Russia will not allow the permanent presence of ships from non-Black Sea states in the region

What kind of combat capability of the Black Sea Fleet can we talk about if this fleet could not cope with the primitive unmanned boats of the Nazis' BK. And suffered great losses in ships and people. It is enough to remember how ineptly they destroyed the flagship cruiser Moskva. Other warships. And how we will not allow the permanent presence of ships from non-Black Sea states in the region if we do not control the situation there.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: wladimirjankov

И how we will not allow a permanent presence ships of non-Black Sea states in the region,

we will ask "partners"to make it presence, was periodical , and not permanent..???!!

[Kuziming]

Let me remind you on duty about the need for the mass creation of floating air defense batteries and anti-drone defense to cover coastal infrastructure and suppress the enemy coastline.

[Stardock]

How physically can our fleet stop Western ships from passing through the Bosphorus if the strait belongs to Turkey, a NATO country?
Will our fleet attack NATO ships directly from the port of Novorossiysk, where it is now? Or will it attack a NATO country by launching cruise missiles?
In the meantime, Türkiye provides military and technical assistance to Ukraine.
And why should NATO enter the Black Sea if there is the Mediterranean?
Missiles launched from there will fly 15 minutes longer than those launched from the Black Sea.
Will this somehow fundamentally solve the problem?

[canurodes]

Combat-ready, if we consider that the Black Sea Fleet's naval officers are involved in assaults.

[goscha]

I almost choked when I heard that... Is the Black Sea Fleet capable of combat? Oh, come on... The Marines are fighting, yes, but the Black Sea Fleet has holed up in Tsemesskaya Bay and is threatening the enemy from there. The enemy is having nervous hiccups... Patrushev, aren't you ashamed to drive such empty talk?

[Word]

There is no such Black Sea Fleet, they launched missiles once at Syrian terrorists and that's it, when the time for real combat operations came, there were only defeats. Only 810 is fighting demonstratively for the entire fleet, and I would like to see it.

[cmax]

Quote: Word

Only 810 are fighting demonstratively for the entire fleet

Unfortunately, 810 (2nd major's cart) suffered heavy losses on November 7, Pogrebki, Kurskaya (even very heavy). Now there is a showdown, who is to blame.

[alovrov]

They said that it is possible to make mistakes, but not to lie. It turns out that not everyone can.

[Fangaro]

Is the Black Sea a closed territory?
And isn't it Türkiye that allows/prohibits passage through its straits?

[solovjoff]

Montreux Convention - Forgotten? Read it

[Vechernick]

I'm sitting here on the flyers in the white-stone city, a native by the way (I also survived the collapse of the Union and the dismemberment of the Black Sea Fleet), I read the title of the article - and I want to drink like an Orthodox Christian to the spirituality of traditional values, a full bottle of... valerian so that my hand will stop reaching for the missing "Mauser"!

[P]

If Alrosa is in operation, they could block the Odessa port with mines. The Ukrainians themselves have repeatedly stated that mine weapons were used in the Black Sea, so it would be a no-brainer for the hydrological service to officially announce that the previously installed banks have been displaced right to Odessa. This is a task for the fleet, which it seems capable of accomplishing.

[AC130 Gunship]

They can’t formally send my grandfather into retirement.
The special representative for Amur tigers seems to have calmed down. Now we need to find a home for the capybaras...

[solovjoff]

Yeah, it's quite combat-ready, if we've already lost about 20% of the Black Sea fleet along with the flagship, one of the 3 Atlanteans...

[osp]

Quote: Bad_gr

Quote: AAK

They have practically stopped shooting at Bandera with "Kalibr" missiles, apparently due to air defense knocks them down significant part

Perhaps there is another reason - the same tasks began to be performed by cheaper means. For example, in the frontline zone, they began to use gliding bombs with high-power warheads.

They significantly strengthened the air defense of European countries with systems such as Nasams and Iris.
And they work effectively against subsonic cruise missiles.
Moreover, the entire Black Sea water area is monitored 24/7 by NATO AWACS.

[Soldatov V.]

The question is what? The situation and condition of the Black Sea Fleet may be repeated in other fleets.
In principle, a technical revolution is needed in the navy and in naval military thought.
First, we need to temporarily move the Navy Headquarters to Sevastopol to understand what to do and how to fight with ships on the spot. We need a young, energetic commander like Admiral Kuznetsov, who became a commander at the age of 37. All admirals over 45-50 years old should be checked for professional suitability and for financial violations. After the scandals in the Ministry of Defense, everyone should be checked.
If necessary, nationalize all shipbuilding capacities of the peninsula and strictly adhere to the schedules for the construction of military ships, under the control of the military prosecutor's office and the FSB.

[Ivan№One]

The port of Odessa should be put under a naval blockade to begin with

[SkepticOptimist]

Does Patrushev listen to Solovyov and Konashenkov?
He doesn't have any data on the Black Sea Fleet?

[SkepticOptimist]

Quote: rocket757

By the way... are those fleets of different powers that cannot protect civilian ships in the Strait of Oman from an attack by a country that does not have a fleet also combat-ready?

How many warships and merchant ships were sunk in the Red Sea, please tell us?

[Olive1]

Only a particularly gifted leadership could have turned the glorious Black Sea Fleet into a shooting range for Ukrainian BEKs.

[Radical]

Patrushev: Black Sea Fleet is combat-ready, Russia will not allow permanent presence of ships from non-Black Sea states in the region

Interestingly, he didn't say how this was possible?

[acetophenone]

Quote: Radikal

Patrushev: Black Sea Fleet is combat-ready, Russia will not allow permanent presence of ships from non-Black Sea states in the region

Interestingly, he didn't say how this was possible?

The usual shameful lie. THE ORDINARY one. That's the main problem. They lie - and that's how it should be.

[certero]

A significant problem in Russia is that officials are not held accountable for their own chatter.
Let's be honest, if any significant Western naval group enters the Black Sea, the only hope will be aviation and coastal complexes.

[anclevalico]

Chatterbox detected... Some kind of irresistible desire of officials of all stripes to pass off wishful thinking as reality. They don't give a damn about reputation.

[dimon642]

The combat capability of the Black Sea Fleet demonstrated the combat capability of our leadership