FSB foils Ukrainian special services operation to hijack Russian Aerospace Forces electronic warfare helicopter

As reported by the Public Relations Center of the FSB of the Russian Federation, Ukrainian special services were preparing an operation to hijack one of the helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

According to the FSB, the Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine tried to recruit a Russian military pilot to hijack an Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopter. However, as a result of the operational work of Russian counterintelligence agents, Kyiv's plans were thwarted.

The FSB has uncovered and thwarted an operation by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine to hijack a helicopter EW Mi-8MTPR-1 Russian Aerospace Forces

- the department’s Public Relations Center said in a statement.

The Mi-8MTPR-1 EW helicopters are equipped with a fully domestic system "Rychag-AV" designed for electronic warfare. The system allows for group protection of aircraft and ground objects. Apparently, the Ukrainian special services hoped to gain access to these technologies.

In addition, Russian counterintelligence officers discovered locations of the assets Defense and units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which then successfully attacked the Russian Armed Forces.

In July of this year, it was reported that the FSB had thwarted the plans of Ukrainian special services to hijack the Russian Tu-22M3 missile carrier.

Comments

[Nexcom]

Damn, how did this happen again? Did the Kakes bribe the pilots or did they bring their own?
It's good, of course, that our guys stopped the hijacking attempt. But HOW are Kakel agents prowling around our military airfields again? There are no words....

[Egoza]

Quote: Nexcom

But HOW are Kakel agents roaming our military airfields again? There are no words....

The article does not say that the pilot succumbed to recruitment. Maybe he gave up these "recruiters" to the FSB. But, of course, the "scurrying" ones need to be taken down "on the fly". Oh, what a job the FSB has now! Good luck.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Nexcom

Damn, how did this happen again? Did the Kakes bribe the pilots or did they bring their own?

What again? Read carefully the message from the Russian FSB:
"Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation the operation was exposed and stoppedI am the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine...
Ukrainian military intelligence officers tried to recruit Russian military pilot with the aim of hijacking an aircraft to territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
During the operational game Russian counterintelligence officers uncovered air defense positions and locations of Ukrainian Armed Forces units, which were subsequently effectively attacked with fire."
And who is hanging around there and what words do you lack?

[BAI]

Maybe he turned these "recruiters" over to the FSB.

Most likely, that's how it was. And not for the first time.

[bambr731]

But HOW are Kakel agents roaming around our military airfields again?

Now in Russia, unfortunately, there are as many Kakel agents as there are cats in a garbage dump They've lurked all over Russia like cockroaches. Counterintelligence agents and other specialized special services have more than enough work to do.

[Il'nur]

like cats in a garbage dump sad They've hidden all over Russia like cockroaches.

Don't offend cats, cats don't hang around in garbage dumps, but rats, that's true... And the comparison with cockroaches is appropriate, you crush them, crush them, and the Ukrainians come out of every crack...

[Incvizitor]

Several million of them were taken two years ago.

[BecmepH]

Quote: Nexcom

they are roaming around our military airfields

You are naive)) Why hang out and communicate face to face. There are social networks, there are phones...

[Saburov_Alexander53]

I agree, the article is missing a key fact - what happened to the pilot? Did he really become a traitor, as was the case with Kuzminov, or was the Ukrainian GUR successfully played? And to recruit, it is not necessary to hang around airfields or even meet in person... The main thing is to find something to hook onto...

[Nexcom]

I didn't mean that they were literally hanging around. It's clear that they were most likely trying to buy them off or something else - put pressure on them, intimidate them, or...

[BecmepH]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

I agree, the article is missing a key fact - what happened to the pilot? Did he really become a traitor, as was the case with Kuzminov, or was the Ukrainian GUR successfully played? And to recruit, it is not necessary to hang around airfields or even meet in person... The main thing is to find something to hook onto...

Ukrainian intelligence, represented by a certain Sergei, attempted to recruit the pilot via a messenger and offered "cooperation."

According to the GUR plan, our helicopter pilot was supposed to poison his colleagues on a certain day, and then cross the line of combat contact in a helicopter.
"Sergey gave me the dosage and all the drugs," said the pilot, whom Ukrainian intelligence tried to recruit. "Before the flight, my family - my wife and children - had to move abroad. Then the Ukrainian special services had to transport them to Chisinau, and from there they would be picked up by cars.

The pilot discussed the situation with his crew. The military agreed to "act decisively" and "go to the end."

Constantinople

[Saburov_Alexander53]

I'm not even sure that this quote from Tsargrad convinced me of the reality of such an event. The option of poisoning two of his crew members raises doubts. They could only be poisoned in the air or in the cabin just before takeoff... and how is that? Offer them poison to drink or just drink some water for a hangover?
And the second argument, about sending the family first abroad, from there to Chisinau and by car to Ukraine.... I would understand if it was straight to the USA or London, but to war-torn Ukraine, from where everyone is fleeing.... okay, I'll keep quiet, I'll keep quiet. I'll keep quiet...

[BecmepH]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

I'm not even sure that this quote from Tsargrad convinced me of the reality of such an event. The option of poisoning two of his crew members raises doubts. They could only be poisoned in the air or in the cabin just before takeoff... and how is that? Offer them poison to drink or just drink some water for a hangover?
And the second argument, about sending the family first abroad, from there to Chisinau and by car to Ukraine.... I would understand if it was straight to the USA or London, but to war-torn Ukraine, from where everyone is fleeing.... okay, I'll keep quiet, I'll keep quiet. I'll keep quiet...

Yes, and all the media have already reported about it, and you are still sitting in your “house” and doubting))
The pilot himself has already given an interview.
I know, I know, you'll say it's fake))

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Alexey, let's just admit that I haven't come across any other articles in the media about this case yet... Why the stupid suspicions with the search for fakes and the "house" right away?
Thank you, you showed the article from Tsargrad, but it created even more questions, not answers.

[BecmepH]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

Alexey, let's just admit that I haven't come across any other articles in the media about this case yet... Why the stupid suspicions with the search for fakes and the "house" right away?

But, it's elementary. If you have doubts about something, a search engine will help. Why include Sherlock Holmes?)) I don't want to offend!

[Saburov_Alexander53]

search engine to help.
Alexey, in the end it happened that way, or rather, I saw a story on TV and an interview with a pilot and an FSB officer, where they told in detail about this recruitment case. That's exactly what I was missing in this article. And it's not the first time I've noticed such shortcomings in hasty anonymous articles that the site's editors rush to publish without a good review. When after the article, a bunch of questions arise and you wonder how the author himself doesn't see it. As an example, the previous article about our hero guy, who held an enemy stronghold for THREE WEEKS.
I don’t know, maybe that’s how it should be written while the war is going on... no time for details.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

I agree, the article is missing a key fact - what happened to the pilot? Did he really become a traitor, as was the case with Kuzminov, or was the Ukrainian GUR successfully played? And to recruit, it is not necessary to hang around airfields or even meet in person... The main thing is to find something to hook onto...

And who told you that Kuzminov was a traitor? Either the pilot-navigator did something weird and flew behind the front line, or, what is more likely, the command knew the real situation so "well" that it ended up sending the crew "behind the front line".

[Nexcom]

So it wasn't Kuzminov who later appeared on Kakelsk TV channels and said all sorts of things? Your assertion about Kuzminov is strange...

[vovochkarzhevsky]

That is, it wasn’t Kuzminov who later appeared on Kakelsky TV channels and made all sorts of statements?

Do you think that you yourself are at least Karbyshev? And if you find yourself in captivity, you will steadfastly and courageously keep a military secret?
Don't make me laugh, with the modern development of psychotherapy and pharmaceuticals, you will sing anything with an inspired face.

[Nexcom]

No, I'm not Karbyshev. But I would prefer not to surrender as his crew did, because it would be clear that there was nothing left to lose - they would torture you to death anyway, and that would take a long time and be extremely painful.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

No, I'm not Karbyshev. But I would prefer not to surrender as his crew did.

Do you know exactly how it all happened there? Or is it news to you that people are not only surrendering, but also being captured?

[Nexcom]

It is impossible to know with absolute certainty what was there... But I would like to believe that the crew valiantly decided not to surrender.
And why was Kuzminov so valuable that he was, so to speak, "captured"? For processing and subsequent advertising? Then why was he killed later - became unnecessary?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

It is impossible to know with absolute certainty what was there... But I would like to believe that the crew valiantly decided not to surrender.
And why was Kuzminov so valuable that he was, so to speak, "captured"? For processing and subsequent advertising? Then why was he killed later - became unnecessary?

Have you ever been in the cockpit of a Mi-8 on a tour? I'm not even talking about piloting it.

[Nexcom]

I am not a pilot and that is obvious. But you still haven't answered the question....

[vovochkarzhevsky]

I am not a pilot and that is obvious. But you still haven't answered the question....

To avoid repeating the same thing a hundred times, I have put everything together here:

https://dzen.ru/a/ZTpDZYWSGXAlMqYE

Read.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

I see you want to show off your "perpendicular" opinion, like, look how unconventional I am and Kuzminov is one of us, but treated with psychotropic drugs. Why do you need this nonsense, or do you want to piss against the wind?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

I see you want to show off your "perpendicular" opinion, like, look how unconventional I am and Kuzminov is one of us, but treated with psychotropic drugs. Why do you need this nonsense, or do you want to piss against the wind?

Well, if the opinion of a person who once piloted the Mi-8 against the opinion of armchair strategists is considered perpendicular, then so be it.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

the opinion of a person who once piloted the Mi-8

Do you think that your personal experience is an indulgence from such stupidity? After all, you can’t present anything except your fantasy about Kuzminov, and you start to think up options to justify him... Why do you need this? If you want to fight for the honest name of a slandered pilot, then you don’t need speculation and assumptions, but at least some facts. Did he send distress signals over the radio? Did he fly along the route agreed upon by the command?
After all, there is not a single argument to start doubting his betrayal... But for some reason you wanted to show off without any evidence. Did it work?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Do you think that your personal experience is an indulgence from such stupidity? After all, you can’t present anything except your fantasy about Kuzminov, and you start to think up options to justify him... Why do you need this? If you want to fight for the honest name of a slandered pilot, then you don’t need speculation and assumptions, but at least some facts. Did he send distress signals over the radio? Did he fly along the route agreed upon by the command?
After all, there is not a single argument to start doubting his betrayal... But for some reason you wanted to show off without any evidence. Did it work?

You are talking nonsense because you are arguing about something you have no idea about.
You speak of facts? And what facts that this was a deliberate betrayal?
But they don’t exist, there is only media chatter.
You accuse me of fantasizing, but at the same time you fantasize yourself:

Did he send out any distress signals on the radio?

You are making assumptions without having any idea about the Mi-8 electronic equipment.
Do you even know that in addition to the helicopter commander, the pilot-navigator can also go on air?
But both of them were silent. And that's just one thing, both were confident in the correctness of the route, first of all the pilot-navigator, it was on him that all navigation was done.
In short, read on, it is for people like you that I have analyzed all the inconsistencies that, unlike you, are visible to me.

https://dzen.ru/a/ZTpDZYWSGXAlMqYE

[Saburov_Alexander53]

If you want to change the established opinion with a link to the fantasies of a blogger in Zen, whose goal is exactly the same, to show off with a perpendicular opinion, then in vain. I can simply respond with something similar and suggest reading this:
https://www.kp.ru/daily/27572/4896799/
But I read your link carefully and I was not at all impressed by the author's conclusions about the difficulties of Kuzminov taking the pistol out of his left pocket and the possibility of radio communication with the second pilot-navigator. To understand that he was a traitor and to react in a matter of seconds by emptying his pistol into him... well, you know, that's something... when you served with him and under his command for a couple of years. And then, your whole theory rests on the fact that he was broken and forced to appear on TV and drink heavily in Spain, where his mother had gone before him, having married a Spaniard.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

If you want to change the established opinion with a link to the fantasies of a blogger in Zen, whose goal is exactly the same, to show off with a perpendicular opinion, then in vain. I can simply respond with something similar and suggest reading this:

As you put it, a blogger has a name, a surname, a given name, and most importantly, the relevant knowledge and experience.

But I read your link carefully and I was not at all impressed by the author's conclusions about the difficulties of Kuzminov taking the pistol out of his left pocket and the possibility of radio communication with the second pilot-navigator. To understand that he was a traitor and to react in a matter of seconds by emptying his pistol into him... well, you know, that's something... when you served with him and under his command for a couple of years.

Do you have any ability to think? You were clearly told that the commander is busy controlling the helicopter. In addition, his seat is very inconveniently positioned for such shooting. Even the pilot-navigator is very difficult for him to shoot suddenly.
It is completely impossible for an on-board technician to do this; to do this you would have to contort yourself in a way that human anatomy does not allow.

And then, your whole theory is based on the fact that he was broken and forced to appear on TV.

You are lying. I don't have a theory, but an analysis of the official version, where one thing doesn't match the other.

and drink heavily in Spain, where his mother had gone before him, having married a Spaniard.

Is this how you casually accused the Russian leadership? They have a lot of relatives abroad.

By the way, since you think you understand aviation matters better than a military pilot, here's a question for you:
Why were the engines removed from the allegedly deliberately hijacked helicopter?

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Why were the engines removed from the allegedly deliberately hijacked helicopter?
So that the "patriot" Kuzminov doesn't steal it back The version is no worse in absurdity than yours. Continue to drive the wave....and amuse the forum members.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So that the "patriot" Kuzminov doesn't steal it back fellow The version is no worse in absurdity than yours. Continue to drive the wave....and amuse the forum members.

How you try to seem witty. But nothing works for you. Because you haven't answered the question.
In general, nothing is new. History repeats itself. After the war, the scum from the Tashkent front boldly branded the front-line soldiers who had been captured with shame, without even bothering to find out under what circumstances this capture had occurred.
How similar you are to them.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

You won't be able to lay flowers on the grave of this scoundrel Kuzminov... Yesterday they said that he was buried in an unmarked grave in Spain and they didn't even give his ashes to his relatives (mother). And all that's left for you is to make the forum members laugh here. Go on, you'll get credit...

[vovochkarzhevsky]

You won't be able to lay flowers on the grave of this scoundrel Kuzminov... Yesterday they said that he was buried in an unmarked grave in Spain and they didn't even give his ashes to his relatives (mother). And all that's left for you is to make the forum members laugh here. Go on, you'll get credit...

I won’t lay flowers, for the simple reason that I don’t have absolutely reliable data.
But I also don't want to be a cur who obediently carries out an official's command - get it. For the same reason, there is no absolutely reliable data.
Unlike you, I know firsthand how the Russian government can set up military hot spots in order to cover up its own mistakes or gain political benefits.
And the most disgusting thing was to watch how people like you, who had never fought, in an organized flock joined in the defamation at the behest of the authorities through the media.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

there is no absolutely reliable data.

And such a question can always arise... I'm talking about the reliability of the data. And according to this principle, you can doubt the betrayal of Mazepa or Vlasov. There, too, one can find and do find (!!!) a multitude of all sorts of reservations and pretexts to sow doubts about the real betrayal of these people, passing it off as some kind of patriotism...
But of course, there are also examples of the opposite, and our Soviet history of repression is the best example. When the crowd, processed by propaganda, easily believed in enemies of the people, if that's what was written in the newspapers. And I understand where your fears come from, not to repeat something like that with Kuzminov.
But I stand by my opinion, since the arguments in its defense that you offered for consideration did not seem convincing to me, and even pathetic. Something like that...
And about pumping himself with psychotropic drugs before performing on Ukrainian TV... He had a chance already in Spain to write a letter or access any resources in Russia via the Internet, go to the embassy or the correspondent's office, where he could explain everything... He didn't do any of this, as an honest patriot of his country would have tried to do.
That's why all your arguments look like justification of a traitor. And you feel the weakness of your arguments, switching to insults with "curs" and so on. It's too late to get angry when you screwed up completely and got the same amount on this site.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

And such a question can always arise... I'm talking about the reliability of the data. And according to this principle, you can doubt the betrayal of Mazepa or Vlasov. There, too, one can find and do find (!!!) a multitude of all sorts of reservations and pretexts to sow doubts about the real betrayal of these people, passing it off as some kind of patriotism...

The official version is full of lies. Which people far from aviation do not notice, but which are obvious to professionals.
As for patriotism, I proved mine first in Afghanistan, then in the first Chechen war. And not by chatting on the Internet like you.

And I understand where your concerns come from, not to repeat something like this with Kuzminov.

I have nothing to fear for myself. I'm not even in the reserves anymore, I'm retired.
But there are concerns about the boys who serve.
Their "lords of fate" will easily make them guilty if necessary, and people like you will spit on them here.
For you, the words of veterans and professionals are not law; you only believe the authorities.

He had a chance already in Spain to write a letter or access any resources in Russia via the Internet, go to the embassy or the correspondent office, where he could explain everything...

Young man, are you serious? So, when the staff officers and the parquet generals dumped all their screw-ups on him, he had a chance? You have to lie like that.

That's why all your arguments look like justification of a traitor. And you feel the weakness of your arguments, switching to insults with "curs" and so on. It's too late to get angry when you screwed up completely and got the same amount on this site.

Ogrёb, where is this, in your fantasies? I somehow didn't notice it.
And there is no need to lie, no one called you a cur, I said that I would never become one of those curs. Well, if you somehow saw an analogy with yourself, then it is your personal business.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Thanks for the young man, if you don't know that my Nickname contains my real initials and year of birth. And by all appearances, you and I are close in age and most likely I am older and have long since served 3 years of compulsory military service as a radio operator on a submarine when the war in Afghanistan began.
There was no way to take part in it, even as a volunteer, but I never allowed myself to criticize the guys sent there. But even then, information leaked out about the chaos and corruption among the command and officer staff. It was bitter, but it became even more bitter during the Chechen wars, where sometimes direct betrayal at the top was already visible. And the way the Pskov company was killed for three days can hardly be called anything other than betrayal.
I sincerely respect your service in those wars and have already guessed where your doubts about Kuzminov might come from. But he is not Devyatayev for me and I doubt that he will become one. So far, nothing suggests that he was slandered...
And you, with your heroic biography (without irony), will not be able to change my established opinion.
And the chance to try to justify himself, not to the generals, but by telling his version of the capture at the embassy, ​​at the news office, in the civilian media... which would have been in great demand in any local newspaper... But he didn't do that. He could have written to the same Ukrainian bot Shariy, sitting in Spain, and he wouldn't have missed such a sensation and would have trumpeted it to the whole world.
Well, why should I suddenly think that he is a victim of our corrupt generals? Because the engines were removed from the helicopter for some reason? This is not enough for me against all the arguments not for him.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So far, nothing suggests that he was slandered....

This is because you don't know the specifics. You can also lie to me about the PL, because I don't know these specifics.
But unlike you, I won’t take everything on faith; I’ll try to find out the opinion of experts first.

And you, with your heroic biography (without irony), will not be able to change my established opinion.

Well, who would doubt it, the main thing for you is that the TV is blowing.

And the chance to try to justify himself, not to the generals, but by telling his version of the capture at the embassy, ​​at the news office, in the civilian media... which would have been in great demand in any local newspaper... But he didn't do that. He could have written to the same Ukrainian bot Shariy, sitting in Spain, and he wouldn't have missed such a sensation and would have trumpeted it to the whole world.

And such a simple thought that he might have tried to do this, and that's why he was killed, didn't occur to you? Who would have allowed him to "defame respected people"?
Or have you forgotten how to think a long time ago?

For the fact that the engines were removed from the helicopter for some reason? This is not enough for me against all the arguments not for it.

Engines can be removed from a nearly new helicopter in one case, if they are damaged. But who will damage them if the hijacking is contractual?
Learn to think and ask questions, and not proudly wear noodles on your ears.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Who has offended you so much in life? Or was your rank unfairly withheld from you in service?
I don't hear anything from your professionals anywhere, except for one perpendicular weirdo, whose article you referred to and for whom pulling a pistol out of a holster is a huge and impossible task in flight... Or are there no brave people and they all sit in the skerries with their tongues in their asses and can only speak the "truth" under nameless nicknames on forums?
Where is your military solidarity and fight for the honest name of Kuzminov?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Who has offended you so much in life? Or was your rank unfairly withheld from you in service?
Somehow I don't hear of your professionals anywhere, except for one perpendicular weirdo, whose article you referred to and for whom pulling a gun out of a holster is a huge and impossible task in flight... lol. Or are there no brave ones and they all sit in the skerries with their tongues in their asses and can only tell the "truth" under nameless nicknames on forums?
Where is your military solidarity and fight for the honest name of Kuzminov?

Maybe the point is that you just don’t want to listen to those who are tearing up your cozy template?
Or most likely you are an official, then there are no questions.
As for anonymity, where do I have it here?
https://dzen.ru/a/ZTpDZYWSGXAlMqYE

[Saburov_Alexander53]

So you can't break my "cozy template", your arguments don't impress me. And you can gnash your teeth here as much as you like, imposing your perpendicular view... But somehow I don't see that "the company is marching in step with you". And the overwhelming majority of comments under your article in Zen say the same thing. And your answer that "it is impossible to hijack a helicopter where there are three people in the cabin" speaks either of a lack of intelligence, or of a lack of imagination. I even doubted that you were a helicopter pilot after that.
Let's get back to yesterday's attempted hijacking of a helicopter, where the pilot was asked to "poison" two crew members. This is where my brain really exploded and I made a caustic comment - how will this look in flight?
This is to give poison to two people to drink at the same time, but what if one wants to drink? After all, it was poison that was offered, not a sleeping pill or other neutralizing agent that leaves its buddies alive. Isn't it easier to take out a pistol and shoot without suffering?
I had a chance to fly as a passenger on the MI-8, many times and not only on regular flights, but also on various jobs in the profession of a signalman on the BAM and in Altai, when the pilots allowed me to sit by the open door of the cabin and jokingly offered to steer. Once during the flight one of the engines failed and there was no panic, we flew on one, to Kirensk. I do not remember the pilot convulsively clinging to the control lever with both hands, and drinking water from a bottle or getting a pistol... no problem.
After such pearls, there are big doubts about your professionalism and everyone you allegedly refer to.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So you can't break my "cozy template", your arguments don't impress me. And you can grind your teeth here as much as you like, imposing your perpendicular view...

No, I don’t even hope anymore. If the pattern has merged with dementia, then there is nothing to help.

I just don't see that "the company is marching in step with you." And the overwhelming majority of comments under your article in Zen say the same thing.

And among those who march in step with the whole company, is there at least one pilot? No, the same "specialists" as you. Whose criterion, - it seems to me.

And your answer that "it is impossible to hijack a helicopter with three people in the cockpit" speaks either of a lack of intelligence or of a lack of imagination. I even doubted that you were a helicopter pilot after that.

That's what I'm talking about, you rely solely on fantasy. And I rely on knowledge and experience.
This is where the difference between us lies.

I even doubted that you were a helicopter pilot after that.

Maybe your doubts are because you are one of those submariners who used to transport food waste from the canteen to the farmstead on carts? That is why you react so nervously to those who did real work in the army?
I can provide evidence for myself, it’s not difficult for me.

Let's get back to yesterday's attempted hijacking of a helicopter, where the pilot was asked to "poison" two crew members. This is where my brain really exploded and I made a caustic comment - how will this look in flight?
This is to give poison to two people to drink at the same time, but what if one wants to drink? After all, it was poison that was offered, not a sleeping pill or other neutralizing agent that leaves its buddies alive. Isn't it easier to take out a pistol and shoot without suffering?

To do this, you'll need eyes in the back of your head and an extra elbow on your right hand. Otherwise, you won't be able to shoot the flight engineer. And that's only if he waits patiently and doesn't give you a hook to the right cheekbone.

I had the chance to fly as a passenger on the MI-8, many times, and not only on regular flights, but also for various jobs in the profession of a signalman on the BAM and in Altai, when the pilots allowed me to sit by the open door of the cockpit and jokingly offered to steer.

You're lying. The most they could have let you do was as a flight engineer.

Once during the flight one of the engines failed and there was no panic, we flew on one, to Kirensk.

The engine failed on the Mi-8? You're lying. I'll give you engines so strong that even we, cadets, couldn't kill them. This is not a Mi-2. And who would have informed you about this? The crew has nothing better to do than report to the pax.

I don't remember the pilot convulsively clinging to the control lever with both hands, and drinking water from a bottle or getting a pistol... no problem.

What is this stream of consciousness?

After such pearls, there are big doubts about your professionalism and everyone you allegedly refer to.

So these are your pearls.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

You're lying. The most they could have let you do was as a flight engineer.
I see that in your fervor you can't even read what is written to you. And it is written that I was sitting in the doorway of the open cabin door and I as a joke offered to drive...
I can't say what exactly failed in the engine. But it was obviously not critical, since the pilots did nothing special. It may have even been a failure of the engine's normal operation signal, when the red light on the panel "Engine failure" started blinking, which I immediately drew the pilot's attention to, and he calmly replied - We'll make it on one! And just in case, the last 20 minutes to Kirensk we flew strictly along the bed of the frozen Lena River, where it was easier to make an emergency landing, if anything...
It was a business flight for work at the Ust-Kut-Peleduy radio link, with a helicopter leased (ordered) in Kirensk in the middle of the damned 90s. The pilots joked then that only thanks to such orders from Rostelecom, they could pay alimony to their ex-wives.
And then I was surprised by the logarithmic ruler in the navigator's hands. And he replied that it was more convenient and faster than a calculator.
vovochkarzhevsky, I don't like to squabble and pick fights with you like kids in a back alley. We are both adults with an established worldview and our own understanding of things. You simply failed to convince me of your perpendicular opinion about Kuzminov and you won't be able to until I get such information from several authoritative sources. And all your references to personal experience and arguments about "bent elbows" are not at all convincing. There is a saying that "In life, everything is not as it really is."

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Yes, the further into the forest...

And it says that I was sitting in the opening of the open door to the cabin and they jokingly offered me to drive...

You wouldn't even offer something like this to someone you don't know as a joke.

I can't say what exactly failed in the engine. But it was obviously not critical, since the pilots did not do anything special. Perhaps it was even a failure of the signaling system about the normal operation of the engine, when the red light on the panel "Engine failure" began to blink, to which I immediately drew the pilot's attention, and he calmly replied - We'll make it on one! And just in case, the last 20 minutes to Kirensk we flew strictly along the bed of the frozen Lena River, where it was easier to make an emergency landing, if anything...

The fantasy is gone.
First of all, the first thing the crew will do when a special situation arises is to close the door to the cockpit so that no one will distract them.
Secondly, there are no "engine failure" lights in sight. And a person far removed from aviation will not be able to understand anything from the instrument readings and light panels. And "submariners" even more so.

And then I was surprised by the logarithmic ruler in the navigator's hands. And he replied that it was more convenient and faster than a calculator.

You imagined it. It was the NL-10 navigation ruler. It only looks like a logarithmic one, although it is based on the same principles.

We are both adults with an established worldview and our own understanding of things. You simply failed to convince me of your perpendicular opinion about Kuzminov and will not succeed until I receive such information from several authoritative sources. And all your references to personal experience and arguments about "bent elbows" are not at all convincing. There is a saying that "in life everything is not as it really is."

The difference is that I understand this issue, unlike you. That's why I can see the lie of the official version.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

You wouldn't even offer something like this to someone you don't know as a joke.
Here you are again stuck and you can't get out of the rut of your prejudices based on your personal experience. And it's not just your personal experience, there are millions of others, no worse.
I admit that in army aviation or on regular flights of "civilian", strict rules with a closed cabin apply. But I emphasized that this was a business flight with a leased aircraft to deliver a team to the Rostelecom RRS line. This was a common practice. When it was impossible to get to the stations on the mountain peaks in the deep taiga covered with snow in any other way. We flew quite often and our guys from the operation were well acquainted with the pilots of this detachment in Kirensk. Therefore, the cabin was always wide open and no one made a problem out of it.
And imagine, when I asked why the red light on the panel was blinking, the answer was exactly that - Engine failure. And at the same time, absolutely nothing in the crew's behavior changed much, and the commander said that we would last on one and began to press against the river bed.
And in current conversations and communication with pilots, they often complained to us that all of us, and they, are suicide bombers, since we fly on our word of honor with expired parts, mechanisms and maintenance regulations... Let me remind you, these were the damned 90s and regional aviation was breathing its last. Some planes were not even allowed to make regular flights with passengers, and for the delivery of operational emergency teams to the RRS, they considered it possible to take such a risk. Therefore, the pilots joked that thanks to us, they would pay alimony - there were no other flights! That is why I reminded you of the saying that "in life, everything happens differently than in reality." And you, it seems, are from another life, where everything is according to the rules and does not happen anyway. It's time to hatch out of your happy bubble and look around. You are not the owner of the truth, like any of us.
If you had clearly said that you did not trust what was said about the details of the flight from Kuzminov's words and what he was lying about in your opinion, I would not have gotten involved in the discussion. But you are trying to justify him, even after his appearances on television, inventing psychotropic treatment, etc. Why all this?
Even if they were simply shot down and captured, then all his subsequent actions indicate that he became a traitor. Maybe I misunderstood your position in some way, then excuse me... I didn't have enough intelligence and intellect after delivering the cart from the ship's galley to the garbage dump to understand your piercing perpendicular version of events.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

And imagine, when I asked why the red light on the panel was blinking, the answer was exactly this – Engine failure.

Stop lying already. Unlike you, I flew the Mi-8.

Even if they were simply shot down and captured, then all further
his actions say that he has become a traitor.

Do you think that in his place you would have been able to maintain a show of loyalty?

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Our restless one, calm down and start thinking calmly with your head. It seems you were not standing next to a helicopter or you just have a quarrelsome character. In what did you see my lie and why would I make this up? I could be wrong about the flashing red light on the panel... I can admit that the pilots were just joking, saying about the engine failure... But all their subsequent actions with the exit to the river, the decrease in altitude and the radio communication with the dispatcher in Kirensk, indicated the reality of the event. It is your right to stand your ground and lie that you saw a helicopter in a movie... I believe you, calm down already and by all appearances, you are ready to repeat the "feat" of this bastard, if you decided to justify him here. You will just have to study to be a helicopter pilot.
Are you bored or has something bitten you again that you woke up after a week?

[Saburov_Alexander53]

By the way, on that trip I had an old video camera with me and I was sitting in the cabin doors, filming some things through the cabin windows. I filmed the pilots, the instrument panel, even the ruler, which you named correctly, unlike me. But the most interesting thing is that I filmed a flashing red light with the inscription "Crash..." Now, for the sake of interest, I found this footage and made a freeze frame of this light.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

By the way, on that trip I had an old video camera with me and I was sitting in the cabin doors, filming some things through the cabin windows. I filmed the pilots, the instrument panel, even the ruler, which you named correctly, unlike me. But the most interesting thing is that I filmed a flashing red light with the inscription "Crash..." Now, for the sake of interest, I found this footage and made a freeze frame of this light.

Young man, stop fantasizing. Your still image shows the right panel of the upper electric control panel of the Mi-8T.
Judging by the position of the arrows, it was taken at the moment the engines were started, which is why the generator display is lit.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

No, "grandfather", filmed about 40 minutes into the flight, when there were 15 minutes left to Kirensk. And this light started blinking right before my eyes during the filming. And I was the first to ask the pilot - what kind of accident is this? And on the light there was an inscription "Failure ..." and then I can't make out an abbreviation of 3-4 capital letters. The video camera was still primitive, the first one that I bought in 94 in Munich with a daily allowance during my training at Siemens. It does not have optical stabilization, and the shaking in the cabin is considerable.
At first I wanted to cut out and show you the entire minute of filming in the cockpit, where I captured both pilots and panoramas of the earth. But why do you need that, you see that I did not lie and was sitting in the cockpit door, which you categorically did not allow... And all your attacks and accusations of lying were completely in vain. And from the very beginning I stipulated that the pilot said about the engine failure, and this did not mean at all that the engine had stopped... Therefore, none of the pilots were particularly bothered by this alarm and they said - We'll make it on one (if anything). And they taxied to the river frozen in ice.
Well, why are you so annoyed and nervous about the event I described in such detail? Even if I am mistaken in something, incorrectly interpreting the signaling of this red light, it was there... And there was a response from the pilot... even if it was a joke.
I'm sorry that I have to snap back at your insulting attacks and troll you in response (learn to be a helicopter pilot). I tried to end the squabble like kids in a back alley on a conciliatory note, but you're a stoned dude and you continued... Do you need this? You won't be able to convince me that Kuzminov is a victim of circumstances and not a traitor. Your arguments against his entire behavior in "captivity" are completely unconvincing.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

And about open cockpits... I am such a young man (born in 1953) that I still remember the times when even in Aeroflot planes the cockpits were wide open and you could go up to the door and look at the pilots, and out the windows ahead.
And when flying on scheduled helicopters on the Gorno-Altaisk-Aktash route, i.e. not even on rented ones, like in Kirensk and on the BAM in the 80s, I remember that the cabins were often wide open and no one was surprised. But for some reason it surprises you....

[vovochkarzhevsky]

And about open cockpits... I am such a young man (born in 1953) that I still remember the times when even in Aeroflot planes the cockpits were wide open and you could go up to the door and look at the pilots, and out the windows ahead.

What's more, you could even steer, lie more boldly.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

What's more, you could even steer, lie more boldly.

I see that someone else finds it funny to follow our discussion and give their assessment... I mean the "minuses" under your comments. I myself, like you, refrain from direct assessments, preferring to clarify the relationship in person. Although you have already crossed the line of a decent dialogue, having slipped into insults for lack of worthy arguments. And I had to walk back and troll you regarding professionalism. Note that I was not the first to start...
And now once again about open cabins on Aeroflot flights. You must remember the A-310 crash near Mezhdurechensk in 1994:
The main cause of the disaster was recognized as the presence of unauthorized persons in the cockpit controlling the aircraft.
Well, how do you like that? Type in a search engine about this event and you will find direct evidence of open cabins during the USSR, which some people still did not refuse in 94... And this is even after the death of Nadya Kurchenko!
And in the A-310 crash, they admitted the participation of a boy, to whom the father pilot gave the wheel and the son nosedived... Now it's time for you to disagree with the official version again and start justifying the pilots, as you justify Kuzminov, that this cannot happen according to the flight rules and strangers in the cockpit. But it happened....

[Saburov_Alexander53]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dO6LBuubPKhrBfcFRBjGAQ6Cno9qp4-_&usp=drive_fs

Try opening the video at this link. I made a two-minute clip especially for you. Just don't take my joke about controlling a helicopter on takeoff at face value, where I commented on my position in the pilot's seat on the ground with the "window" open... like it's no harder than on a motorcycle.
But this is a joke with a voiceover, and the videos are all without jokes and you can make freeze frames yourself on any plot and look at the instrument arrows and the "Failure..." indication.
I hope that at least the fact that the cabin is wide open will stop making you so upset... And then, you see, we'll figure out the indicator.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

No, "grandfather", filmed about 40 minutes into the flight, when there were 15 minutes left to Kirensk. And this light started blinking right before my eyes during the filming.

Yes, yes, tell me what the position of the instrument arrows should be.
By the way, this board does not flash.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Think about it (try to) logically... Why should I make all this up or lie, as you decided to explain? Now you've found fault and noticed the position of the arrows on the instruments in flight... And you're still looking for an excuse for your shame and blunder when I posted a still frame from my video recording in the cockpit. I have a feeling that even if I send you the entire video recording in the cockpit with a FLASHING !!!!!!! light, you'll still find something to nag at. Are you trying to prove to me that I wasn't in the doorway of the open cockpit in flight or that the red "Failure..." light on the instrument panel didn't come on? That's how it all started for you, that such a thing couldn't have happened in principle?
You have already driven yourself into complete disgrace with such quirks and continue to boast about your flying experience, which I doubt more and more after your latest quirk.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Think about it (try to) logically... Why should I make all this up or lie, as you decided to explain? Now you've found fault and noticed the position of the arrows on the instruments in flight...

And I don't know why you're lying. Maybe you're flattering your ego, want to raise your importance, that's your business.
But I'm not picking on the arrows, don't lie. These arrows simply show that the car is on the ground, in the process of preparing to start the engines, or turning them off.
There is no other option, no matter how you twist and turn.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Do you want to cut out a minute of video of the flight and present it? Just think in advance what you will say then, in your defense with options. The only thing that is holding me back for now is that I don't know whether this site and forum allow posting such videos.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

These arrows simply show that the vehicle is on the ground, in the process of preparing to start the engines, or turning them off.

You have an amazing ability to see things that don't exist in principle... No matter how closely I look at my still frame, I can't see the position of the arrows on the instruments at all, everything is so blurry due to the low quality of the filming with an old analog Sony video camera, followed by re-recording onto VHS tape for a video recorder, and then, a few years later, digitizing this recording on a computer to save it on a DVD.
And now imagine once again why I should do this nonsense and invent some kind of helicopter accident, with an SIMULATION of the emergency signaling. I always replicated and shared my amateur films (DVDs) from such trips with dozens of colleagues at work. And I have just re-watched this film and I will clarify that all this was not even in the 90s, but in the spring of 2002.
Can I "spin" a little more?...It's so fun to spin with you.
I understand that if you have such a goal, you can easily cook up any video fake... and I am quite good at using a computer video editing program. I have several dozen amateur films, and not only from interesting business trips along the BAM or Altai, but also from three dozen countries on all continents, except Australia and Antarctica. And editing these films, I have mastered this art quite well and could easily cook up any fake or forgery, as they call it now. But to cook it up especially for you, to prove my presence at the doors of an open cabin during a flight... Or to invent a blinking red light with the inscription "Refusal..." Why, so that later a dozen colleagues at work, to whom I gave the DVD, would ask me: - Why did I invent all this?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

You have an amazing ability to see things that don't exist in principle... No matter how closely I look at my still frame, I can't see the position of the arrows on the instruments at all, everything is so blurry due to the low quality of the filming with an old analog Sony video camera, followed by re-recording onto VHS tape for a video recorder, and then, a few years later, digitizing this recording on a computer to save it on a DVD.

Young man, unlike you, I flew the Mi-8T not as a passenger, but as a pilot. Even though it was only 45 hours and in school, I nevertheless completed the training in full, and even from a blurry photo I can recognize the upper right electric control panel. And I won't confuse the generator with the engine.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Did you manage to watch the video that I posted at the link?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dO6LBuubPKhrBfcFRBjGAQ6Cno9qp4-_&usp=drive_fs

Special thanks for the young man! Or are you asserting yourself by underestimating my age? I told you that my nickname contains my real initials and my year of birth is 1953...
Let it be a generator... I've never argued about it.. On the contrary, I've already admitted three times that anything could have happened, and the pilots were just joking... And don't you want to apologize for the wide-open cockpit and strangers in the cockpit, or at least admit that this happened?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Did you manage to watch the video that I posted at the link?

How so.

[orionvitt]

Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

There, either the pilot-navigator did something weird and flew behind the front line, or, what is more likely, the command knew the real situation so "well" that it ultimately sent the crew "behind the front line"

What kind of nonsense are you talking about? To fly all the way to Poltava and not notice? There was no compass, no maps, no sun, no stars, no ground reference points (cities, rivers, roads), or at worst a banal GPS? And pilots (not to mention navigators) are taught to navigate by all this.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

What kind of nonsense are you talking about? To fly all the way to Poltava and not notice? There was no compass, no maps, no sun, no stars, no ground reference points (cities, rivers, roads), or at worst a banal GPS? And pilots (not to mention navigators) are taught to navigate by all this.

What Poltava? There simply won't be enough fuel to get there.
And as for navigation, young man, have you ever done it in your life? To tell a helicopter pilot what is possible and what is not?

[Huarabey]

Maybe you should have first found out how they addressed you, before trying to raise a panic that someone was hanging around the airfields? They addressed the pilot via telegram.

[Nexcom]

But they don't write about this. And this is not panic but indignation.

[Huarabey]

There is nothing to be particularly indignant about. Even the Germans had their own agents in the USSR during the Great Patriotic War (and not only), and what is surprising about the presence of agents of the Ukrainians, with whom we lived together for so long.

[Nexcom]

Well, everything is clear about the Germans - there were plenty of intelligence schools there where Russian-speaking traitors were trained.

[alexoff]

The agents are most likely from the Americans, it's not too difficult for them to recruit someone rich. And counterintelligence only catches paupers, while Rublyovka is full of untouchable foreign agents. Try to find out who they are hiding in their mansions...

[APASUS]

Quote: Nexcom

Damn, how did this happen again? Did the Kakes bribe the pilots or did they bring their own?

This is primarily a question of state secrets. How is it that the lists of pilots go abroad, and then everything else?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nexcom

But HOW are Kakel agents roaming around our military airfields again?

And who told you that the recruitment attempt was at the airfield? Do you think that the flight crew and their families live in the parking lot under the planes/helicopters and do not go beyond the boundaries?

[Ionescu Popa]

Belousov and Medvedev are Ukrainians, most in the top leadership are hostile minorities whose business is Russia itself.

[tralflot1832]

The question is, of course, interesting: how did the Ukrainian GUR contact the pilot?

[Nexcom]

That's it, Andrey. I'm talking about the same thing.
And thank God if our pilot did not give in and handed over these recruiters.

[tralflot1832]

Dmitriy RIA Novosti has all the information, not only did he not give in, but he also "pulled out" information about Ukrainian air defense in the flight corridor. The Ukrainian Air Defense Forces have been sent to Bandera - to hell.

[Nexcom]

The Ukrainian Air Defense Forces have been sent to Bandera - to hell.

Well, that's great if so.

[Irokez]

A similar story seems to have happened before and here it is again. It looks like there will be more attempts.

[evgen1221]

So it's fun to play this game together. We offer them our consent to hijack the aircraft, find out where the air defense is (at least at the time of the hijacking the air defense will be silent on the highway), fly into the corridor and take out everything that is poorly hidden. A completely workable plan.

[Nexcom]

What is there to steal from the kakels? Old MiGs, Su-24s or F-16s? They probably aren't that valuable.
Except perhaps the very fact that they "hijacked" their plane with the pilot.

[evgen1221]

On the contrary, we approach them with a proposal to hijack their plane, we have the above-mentioned, money, intelligence channels as advantages. The advantage is that if the air defense is not turned off, then the desire of potential traitors to hijack in the future will disappear because Ukrainians They don't keep their word about a safe flight corridor (and why would a dead person need money and a villa in Spain if he won't even fly far enough).

[Nexcom]

Well, if the kakes turn off air defense in some places according to such an "agreement", we can send Geraniums with Kinzhals there, instead of sending "litaks"...

[Saburov_Alexander53]

But I disagree here... our MiGs and Su-24s are probably not newer, and getting a whole F-16 is not a success in the plane itself, but in the propaganda effect. But for now we must admit that not a single Ukrainian pilot has yet defected to us in his plane... or am I unaware of such facts? I remember about the hijacking of a tank, but I don't know about a plane or a helicopter...

[BecmepH]

Quote: evgen1221

So it's fun to play this game together. We offer them our consent to hijack the aircraft, find out where the air defense is (at least at the time of the hijacking the air defense will be silent on the highway), fly into the corridor and take out everything that is poorly hidden. A completely workable plan.

Ukrainian intelligence tried to repeat the trick it pulled last summer with helicopter pilot Maksim Kuzminov. The GUR planned to recruit the Russian military pilot, force him to betray his country and colleagues, and hijack a Russian Aerospace Forces Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare (EW) helicopter.
But the FSB foiled the Ukrainian military intelligence operation, outplaying it. Russian retaliation affected the Ukrainian army and air defense.
During the operational game, our counterintelligence agents were able to uncover the positions of Ukrainian air defense systems, as well as the locations of the Ukrainian Armed Forces units. Immediately after that, they were attacked. It is specified that the fire damage was very effective.
Constantinople

[phrases]

With the advent of the Internet, and then social networks, recruitment has become extremely simple. We ourselves offer to see how smart and beautiful we are, for scammers and special services it’s a real treasure, it would be a sin not to use it.

[Nexcom]

I doubt that military pilots are allowed to show up on social networks. Even we were banned - they told us to delete everything if there is one.

[phrases]

No problem. Wives, mothers-in-law, children, relatives, friends, classmates - you can't ban them all, there's something to cling to. Only the Chinese realized in time what this crap smells like.

[Nexcom]

Yes, so it turns out that we are posting a dossier on ourselves, and even with high-quality photos - we are facilitating identification.

[rosomaha]

It would be good to lure out and CAPTURE their agents in the rank of officer, at least mid-level, during such operations... and in such a way that the Ukrainians could not determine for some time that he is with us... and we would EXTRACT a lot of important information from him during this time and immediately use it... for example, codes, entry codes, passwords, addresses, agent network. It would be good to enter their communications, reconnaissance and surveillance systems and extract information, see what they know... or harm at the right moment. In general, put them under surveillance, comb our ranks for their agents and be one step ahead of their plans

[foxes]

It is significant that there were no attempts to steal from the outside Ukrainians not observed. Under the dull howls about "one swarm" the RF was simply flooded with enemy agents.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Recruit one pilot? And don't you need a pilot-navigator and, most importantly, a flight technician?
Oh, these fairy tales, oh, these storytellers.

[Akim]

Nowadays, everything is used for recruitment. I don't even live in the Russian Federation (much further south) and a few days ago I received a call on my mobile - an energetic voice with a noticeable Ukrainian accent began to convince me that I had left my contacts on some website and was interested in "additional earnings". In general, I had to send that voice on the phone on an erotic walking journey.

[Nexcom]

And how much "lard" did this voice offer?

[Amateur]

Obviously, Ukrainian The intelligence services hoped to gain access to these technologies.

The correct word would be: "American", etc.
When Israeli commandos stole a Soviet radar from the Egyptians, it caused serious damage to the USSR's air defenses.

[Nexcom]

An Egyptian officer sold information to the Zionists, and the Israelis bought him out. Then it was a matter of technique - send a group and chop everyone up there.....

[solar]

An Egyptian officer sold information to the Zionists, and the Israelis bought him out.

We did without it

On December 2, Votur aircraft detected a suspicious object 10 km west of Ras Aarb, on the western shore of the Gulf of Suez. After further inspection (the Israeli Air Force carried out more than 300 reconnaissance flights), it turned out to be a radar.

Then it was a matter of technique - to send a group and chop everyone up there.....

We managed without that too.

The capture was possible because the Egyptians, in pursuit of secrecy, located the station on the outskirts, away from the main positions of the troops.

The guards were stationed at a distance from the station. There were also Soviet military advisers there, by the way.
http://forums.airbase.ru/2001/04/t9239--pokhischenie-izrailskimi-kommandos-sovetskoj-rls.8820.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20120424101920/http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/history/attrition-war/tarnegol-53/index.html

[Yuras_Belarus]

Why does everyone here think that Ukrainian agents are Ukrainians? Does that mean that all German agents in WWII were Germans?

[Radical]

Quote: tralflot1832

The question is, of course, interesting: how did the Ukrainian GUR contact the pilot?

Elementary, "Watson." Our soldiers, including officers, employees of defense enterprises, and other secret carriers are sitting in social networks, while posting photos, videos about themselves and their families, especially on vacation somewhere abroad. The media behave like pigs, posting call signs, and at the same time the names, surnames of servicemen, details of their family life ... . In short, the enemy's special services now have no problems finding candidates for recruitment. We ourselves give them such an opportunity. By the word "ourselves" I mean the existing system of protecting secret carriers, which are military personnel - officers, contract soldiers, some civilian personnel, well, and a number of other factors that I will not report here. This is what they call Wikipedia ... .

[polar bear]

The sad thing is that Ukraine is quite successful in hiding the positions of its air defense systems and they still exist. Apparently, we are not very good at intelligence, both technical and intelligence.

[strannik1985]

Apparently, we are not very good at intelligence, both technical and intelligence-based.

Do you think that by now the Russian Aerospace Forces have flown at least 4700 sorties?