Is the Russian fleet returning to the Mediterranean?

154
More than twenty years ago, Russia, as the successor of the USSR, finally lost the ability to control the situation in the Mediterranean. On the last day of 1992, the country's leadership, who believed that the new Russia did not have and cannot have enemies, made a decision according to which the 5 th operational (Mediterranean) squadron of the Navy was disbanded.

For obvious reasons, at that time, the absolute majority of citizens didn’t show any reaction to this event, because the country was heading for a new course, and people were not concerned at all with how many surface ships and submarines sailed in Mediterranean waters, but with feed their families left alone with the new “progressive” market economy. The disbanding of the 5 Squadron, which was a tool for regional deterrence of a potential enemy, led to the fact that this very enemy, as a winner in the Cold War, eventually decided to take over not only the Mediterranean, but also, as we can see today, world ocean, realizing their plans and achieving their goals.

Over the past 20 years, the Mediterranean region has become one of the most intense regions in the world. Disintegrating Yugoslavia, Lebanon, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Northern Cyprus, Israel and Palestine - these are countries and territories that are part of the Mediterranean region, and in which bloody conflicts arise with varying frequency and intensity to the limit. In the absence of restraining forces, the Mediterranean has become a theater of pseudo-democracy and pseudo-multiculturalism. Every day, thousands of North African refugees cross the Mediterranean, flooding Europe with supporters of radical extremist movements. Radicals of all stripes settle in Italy, Spain, Greece, and then begin their journey through the Old World in search of a better life, and to the detriment of civilized relations with the local population. Radical extremism cleared up under the patronizing views of those who today feel that they are the masters of the region. Moreover, under this, I'm sorry, the shop, the Mediterranean is also confidently turning into a zone of deployment of the American missile defense system, which supposedly has to save someone from Iranian, or from North Korean nuclear weapons. In the near future, warships with anti-missile complexes take up combat duty where the threat from a real influx of extremists of all breeds is much worse than an infernally advertised Iranian nuclear program.

Obviously, if the situation continues to go along the paths along which it is going now, then the status of the distributor of radicalism sponsored by one well-known state will finally be established for the Mediterranean region. This, obviously, can inflict a crushing blow on the security of Russia, which has repeatedly faced and, unfortunately, continues to face extremist manifestations.

It is precisely this negative outlook, apparently, that was analyzed by the leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which prompted Sergei Shoigu to reestablish the permanent service of the naval force of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean in the coming years. Shoigu, speaking with such an initiative at a video conference with the headquarters of the fleets and districts, in particular, said: “We have all the opportunities to create and ensure the functioning of such a connection. In general, the naval group is capable of performing tasks in the far sea zone. ”

It is additionally reported that the Mediterranean grouping of Russian ships will consist of one third of the ships of the Black Sea fleet and 2/3 - from the ships of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Federation. At the same time, the headquarters will be located in St. Petersburg, and direct operational command may be feasible from the flagship.

Naturally, after such an initiative expressed by Minister Shoigu, there were also critics of her. According to critics, among whom is Viktor Kravchenko (the former chief of the General Staff of the Navy), the decision to create a group is an ambitious one, which is simply impossible for modern Russia. Kravchenko, in particular, says that to create a Mediterranean squadron, it is necessary to determine the status and basing of the Black Sea Fleet, and for this you will have to start an uneasy conversation with Ukraine again. What exactly will be this conversation, Viktor Kravchenko did not explain. And in general, where is Ukraine - also not clear. After all, firstly, there are agreements with Kiev on the presence of the Black Sea Fleet of Russia at the Crimean bases until 2042; and secondly, there is also the Novorossiysk base, which can be modernized in parallel with the development of the idea of ​​a Mediterranean squadron (one obviously does not hurt the other).
Other critics say that Russia simply will not pull a permanent maritime group in the Mediterranean, as the Navy has not received new warships in recent decades, and if they did, they were only isolated cases. They say that instead of statements about the need to return to the Mediterranean Sea, it would be better to have the existing naval groups provided with new ships, otherwise our existing ships are much inferior in their characteristics to the ships of a potential enemy.

In these words, of course, has its own share of truth, but at the same time, if you argue that way, then Russia will never return to the Mediterranean. At any given time, certain problems will be discovered that will stoke any, even the most constructive, idea from the point of view of ensuring the security of the country. Today we say: the number of ships is not enough, tomorrow we will say that if there are ships, they will not be welcome in the absolute majority of the Mediterranean ports (let it be better at home), the day after tomorrow we will express the idea that it would be better for this money to have pensions with salaries raised, and so - to infinity.
Of course - it is possible to connect with the lack of ports, and with pensions, and with crop failures, and with high fuel tariffs, but in this case it is worth turning to stories Russian fleet in general. After all, if at one time Peter had not started the creation of a fleet, then the contours of our state (if it existed at all) would be completely different. Russia without a combat-ready and renewable fleet can finally turn into a state whose interests are wiped off by everyone who feels comfortable doing so. And there are quite a few of those (willing to wipe their feet on Russia), as we know perfectly well ...

If we say that the fleet is clearly underdeveloped, then no one is going to leave it in this form. At a meeting of the Ministry of Defense, which was attended not only by military personnel, but also by representatives of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, it was confirmed that in the next seven years the country's Navy will be replenished with several dozen surface warships, eight submarine missile cruisers and 16-s multi-purpose submarines. This replenishment is capable of not only complementing the fleet with new military equipment, but also of creating a truly high-quality Mediterranean squadron capable of defending the interests of Russia in a strategic region for our country.
154 comments
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  1. +10
    14 March 2013 08: 41
    Good news, comrades! fellow
    1. +12
      14 March 2013 11: 23
      Very much ! But ...! The list of the Russian Navy is in the public domain. Everyone can find it on the Internet. By creating a Mediterranean squadron, we thereby expose the Arctic Ocean. There is nothing to talk about the Black Sea, we are second after Turkey, and there is no one to fight here (except Georgia, and for this war two small missile ships will be enough), so you can take ships from the Black Sea Fleet, but there are practically none (in ships composed in the 70s consist of). So the problem! And the base. In addition to Tartus in Syria, there was a base in Yugoslavia (Trieste), also our ships were in Aden (Red Sea, not so far from the Mediterranean). In general, the creation of a squadron in the Mediterranean is a good thing, but difficult. I wonder why our Government does not want to place orders for the construction of warships in the factories of Ukraine? Indeed, half of the warships in the USSR were built precisely at the shipyards of Ukraine. Maybe then the matter got off the ground, and then we are slowly building, very slowly.
      1. Georgs
        +5
        14 March 2013 14: 17
        "I wonder why our Government does not want to place orders for the construction of warships at factories in Ukraine?" Warships are not Ivek armored cars. Such things cannot be trusted by a country aiming at potential adversaries. Only by ourselves. No matter how hard it is to get off the ground and take acceleration again.
        1. 0
          15 March 2013 01: 15
          GeorGS. And France, which is building the Mistral, not aiming at potential opponents? If Ukraine, as you say, is throwing itself into potential opponents for Russia, then Russia could place an order for blanks and staff the rest by itself, then acceleration will be faster.
        2. politruk419
          0
          15 March 2013 04: 14
          You yourself lay the answer in your question. Without the accession of the South and East of Ukraine to Russia, the Mediterranean group will not have a reliable rear.
    2. Yoshkin Kot
      0
      15 March 2013 13: 29
      banduputin support! what a hud does then! lol
  2. +2
    14 March 2013 08: 43
    The thing, of course, is good, it is necessary to show your flag to sworn friends. Just what to demonstrate it on? It is necessary to collect almost all large combat-ready ships from all fleets. But new frigates are being built now, there are no large surface ships. what
    1. +1
      14 March 2013 09: 12
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Just what to demonstrate it on?


      If we talk about the fact that the fleet is clearly under-equipped, then no one is going to leave it in this form.
      1. +2
        14 March 2013 09: 18
        Quote: Veter
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Just what to demonstrate it on?

        If we talk about the fact that the fleet is clearly under-equipped, then no one is going to leave it in this form.

        This is very good, only after today's decision to create a Mediterranean squadron, tomorrow by order of the ships for its equipment will not appear.
        1. +7
          14 March 2013 09: 51
          Only if such a decision is not made today, then they will not appear tomorrow.
          1. +3
            14 March 2013 09: 56
            Quote: 1976AG
            Only if such a decision is not made today, then they will not appear tomorrow.

            The decision should be made on the construction of large ocean ships, and already yesterday, and not on the creation of a squadron, under which you need to collect everything that is.
            1. +5
              14 March 2013 10: 04
              Quote: Vladimirets
              moreover, yesterday, and not about creating a squadron, under which you need to collect everything that is.

              Well, now there’s nothing else left, they will collect a squadron from the fleets. Otherwise, for years hi
            2. +12
              14 March 2013 10: 49
              Quote: Vladimirets
              The decision should be made on the construction of large ocean ships, and already yesterday, and not on the creation of a squadron, under which you need to collect everything that is.


              In the meantime, ships being built, sailors should sit on the shore and with cardboard plates in order to walk along the pier depicting a distant ocean voyage .. There is no right decision. I remember at the beginning of the mid-90s, we began to practice like that, calling it TstRZ Pesh on the machine, skills and abilities acquired during the military service are immediately lost and the level of qualification of personnel decreases. The fleet must constantly go to sea and the aircraft fly on what is and don't wait by the sea for weather
              1. +3
                14 March 2013 11: 11
                Quote: Ascetic
                I remember in the early mid-90s

                Quote: Ascetic
                The fleet must constantly go to sea and aviation to fly on what is and not wait for weather near the sea

                In the mid-90s, I served in a brigade of patrol ships and I remember that 3-4 ships went to the sea all the time, on the rest the crews weren’t full, then there was wear and tear, and repairs, in short, were rotting at the pier. And I estimate that if those combat-ready units were taken to the newly created brigade off the coast of Ethiopia, what would they go here.
            3. +1
              14 March 2013 11: 05
              Quote: Vladimirets
              The decision should be made on the construction of large ocean ships, and already yesterday, and not on the creation of a squadron, under which you need to collect everything that is.

              It’s more logical, since the need arose to create a squadron of what it is today and begin to build new ships based on needs, but (well, what to do) taking into account the possibilities.
            4. +3
              14 March 2013 12: 58
              Decisions must be balanced, not populist. Today we can decide on the construction of an aircraft carrier, but if there is nowhere to build it and there is no money for it, then what is the use of such a decision?
        2. -1
          14 March 2013 10: 08
          Quote: Vladimirets
          This is very good, only after today's decision to create a Mediterranean squadron, tomorrow by order of the ships for its equipment will not appear.


          No panic! No one is talking NOW! No skepticism ala:
          At any given time, certain problems will be discovered that will drown any idea, even the most constructive one from the point of view of ensuring the country's security.

          The main beginning is political will, understanding the importance of the issue, if you like.
          1. +2
            14 March 2013 10: 28
            Quote: Veter
            No panic! No one is talking NOW! No skepticism

            No one is panicking, just groundless euphoria is even worse than gray skepticism, it does not adequately assess the situation and not talk about problems means sticking your head in the sand. Ideally, you should not only talk about problems, but also solve them, which is why I wrote:
            Quote: Vladimirets
            But new frigates are being built now, there are no large surface ships.

            Quote: Vladimirets
            The decision must be made on the construction of large ocean ships

            They are needed for all fleets and for the Mediterranean squadron.
        3. Captain Vrungel
          +5
          14 March 2013 10: 23
          Vladimir +. Judging by your opponents, traditionally we still have the Russian "maybe" and shapkozidstvo. If we analyzed which and whose fleet is sailing Mediterranean (soup with dumplings straight) and even better to look at it, then optimism from the motley group of our presence will fade. It is time to restore the combat potential of the type of the 5th squadron and replace the demonstrators of the Andreevsky flag now, who can perform only one global task, to show that Mediterranean is the object of Russia's interests. The detachment of ships should be targeted, full-fledged, modern, with a large autonomy and range, and not tied to slow-moving support vehicles and rescue tugs.
          1. +2
            14 March 2013 11: 49
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            If you were to analyze which and whose fleet plows the Mediterranean

            Yes, even the Bulgarians were not impressed, and the Israelis relaxed and launched an air strike on Damascus, we must buy inflatable ships before the fleet was built.
        4. Good Ukraine
          0
          14 March 2013 22: 15
          Quote: Vladimirets
          This is very good, only after today's decision to create a Mediterranean squadron, tomorrow by order of the ships for its equipment will not appear.



          There was a desire.
          There will be a skeleton, the muscles will grow.
      2. +3
        14 March 2013 10: 03
        Quote: Veter
        , then no one is going to leave him like that.

        While this is all in the plans, ships of the sea and ocean zones will go, then we'll talk hi
    2. Sgt.
      +3
      14 March 2013 12: 37
      It is imperative that Russia return to the Mediterranean Sea, the interests and security of future Russia require this. Suppose, for starters, a small force, but a constant presence there is necessary. over time, if possible, it should be increased, quantitatively and qualitatively. Read the story, from the time of Peter I and Catherine II, Russia has always been there, and not from a whim, but by indispensable necessity. And now, when the Americans and their friends, the British (eternal balamutes) and the French (political forgive them), built SSBNs and destroyers near Aegis, and stick out there without ceasing, this need doubled.
      "The growing nuclear missile threat from SSBNs deployed to the eastern Mediterranean has necessitated the creation of a full-fledged, powerful grouping of naval forces capable of adequately responding to enemy actions, to conduct proactive actions to uncover the underwater situation, detect SSBNs and maintain readiness for them. All this should have forced the command of the US Navy to redeploy SSBNs to other areas, the actions of which were less effective. "
      Admiral I.V. Kasatonov
      Earnestly.
  3. +2
    14 March 2013 08: 49
    I would like to know the quantitative composition of the squadron. Previously, the Soviet 5th squadron included up to forty ships and submarines. And how many ships will there be now?
  4. +3
    14 March 2013 09: 02
    If this is feasible, then the need for ships is increasing, which means you need to order at least two more ships in shipyards.
    1. -3
      14 March 2013 09: 53
      The number of ships ordered depends on production and financial capabilities.
      1. +3
        14 March 2013 12: 00
        You want to say that there is no money in the country? The palaces are built for themselves and nothing, but for the price like a frigate probably.
        1. +2
          14 March 2013 13: 07
          Here about finance at once seized, and production does not play a role? Or is there no problem? And as for the palaces ... What is the use of counting money in someone else's pockets if the state is not going to confiscate it, even despite its clearly criminal origin?
  5. +2
    14 March 2013 09: 10
    It's time for Russia to rise from its knees and show everyone 'KUZKIN'S MOTHER'! soldier
    1. Georgs
      +1
      14 March 2013 14: 27
      It's time to get up off your knees. And "la mer de la Kuzka" is a completely hackneyed image and no longer impressive to anyone. No need to make noise and strum ammunition. It is necessary to do so that a potential adversary timidly kept aloof and cautiously squinted at a quiet, good-natured country, intuitively feeling its internal economic and military might.
  6. dmitry46
    +5
    14 March 2013 09: 34
    Do I need grouping in the Mediterranean? - UNEVERWAYS NEEDED !!!
    BUT! The fleet just needs new ships. In the current state, the fleet is certainly capable of fulfilling this task, but this will lead to a weakening of the Northern and Black Sea fleets.
    I'd like to believe that soon we will see new ships!
  7. +11
    14 March 2013 10: 09
    Due to problems on the site, my comment on this topic has already disappeared twice recourse
    The question of the formation of a squadron in the Middle East must be considered from three sides.
    Side 1 - benefits for the domestic fleet. It will be and it is certain. Ships should go on long voyages, and where they go is the sixteenth question. Middle-earth is as good as other options in this respect. And maybe even better - at least the submariners of the Northern Fleet will again be able to play insanely interesting hide-and-seek such as "deceive SOSUS" (on the way), then "throw off the destroyer that is hanging on in Gibraltar", and for dessert - the favorite entertainment of our nuclear submarines. " to the ships of the 6th fleet and show them your "Caliber" from under the water "
    So from this point of view, everything is in order.
    2 party - general political. Everything is simple here - it is better to have at least some connection of ships in Middle-earth than not to have any.
    Side 3 - projection of force in the event of some scenario negative for the Russian Federation. Here everything is not just bad, but very bad. Because currently there are as many as 2 ships that can pose a threat to enemy warships - this is the Peter the Great TARKR (SF) and the Moskva RCR (Black Sea Fleet) (but none of them can work along the coast - there is nothing ). To this could be added the Kuznetsov TAVKR, if the Granites are restored on it or the multipurpose MiG-29K will sit on its deck. Naturally, even having 3 ships, it is rather difficult to organize the constant presence of at least one of them. It should be borne in mind that the departure of the same "Peter the Great" to the Mediterranean will lead to the fact that ... right, the Federation Council loses its only surface attack missile carrier.
    With submarines, alas, the situation is no better. On the Federation Council, they seem to be 17 - 3 SSGN of the 949A project and 14 multipurpose nuclear submarines. But half of them are combat-ready by force, so I doubt very much that this can ensure the permanent presence of at least 3 nuclear submarines. Rather, on average there will be 2.
    Other ships - all that we have so far are several old BODs of Project 1155 that are quite capable of providing PLO connections but are practically devoid of strike capabilities and require air cover, moreover, their age has passed 25 and above (except for Chabanenka, who is younger and with Mosquitoes) But there are only 5 BODs in the Northern Fleet, of which 3 are in service, so it will be difficult to ensure the presence of at least one in the Mediterranean on an ongoing basis. However, taking into account the fact that there is "Kerch" at the World Championship, both the Smetlivy and Ladny TFRs can probably be attended by one, and on big holidays - even two ships of the BOD / SKR class.
    1. +9
      14 March 2013 10: 09
      Two "Mistralki" that the French are building for us - well, these can only scare themselves. It is difficult to imagine how this ship with the landing party will "hang out" in Middle-earth ... unless - to remake Tartus as a base for a brigade of marines? In principle, this would be a way out, giving the Mistralks some sense of their presence in the Mediterranean.
      But the fact is that all these ships need food, water and fuel. Therefore, a fleet of auxiliary vessels with a refrigerator, tankers, bulk carriers is required ... something I don’t see all this in the SF (except for tankers that seem to be)
      In general, presumably, our squadron will be able to include a pair of nuclear submarines, one diesel-electric submarine (if the BF is more generous), one, sometimes two BODs or TFRs, sometimes one TARKR or RKR or TAVKR (but not always) and ... that's all.
      5 OPESK USSR had about 70-80 pennants in the Mediterranean Sea, of which a dozen and a half were nuclear and diesel submarines, 25-30 surface warships. The rest are supply vessels. If we recall that this is the number of ships CONSTANTLY in Middle-earth (taking into account the need for repairs, the time of transitions from the basing places, etc., such a quantity could be provided only by a three to four times larger squadron), then we take a look - ALL of our shipbuilding program up to 2020 even if it is fully executed, and even if ALL of its ships are exclusively occupied by the presence in the Mediterranean Sea, we won’t be able to revive the 5 OPESK. Even close.
      it was confirmed that in the next seven years, the country's Navy will replenish with several dozen surface warships, eight submarine missile cruisers and 16 th multipurpose submarines. This replenishment can not only understaff the fleet with new military equipment, but also create a truly high-quality Mediterranean squadron

      In fact, the implementation of this our program will strengthen the composition I have indicated for the 2-3 submarines and several frigates. This will certainly be better - but without air support, such a squadron will not be complete, and the relatively small autonomy of frigates will also become a problem
      1. +2
        14 March 2013 20: 15
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        then we will kick it off - ALL of our shipbuilding program until 2020, even if it is fully implemented and even if ALL of its ships are exclusively occupied in the Mediterranean, will not revive 5 OPESK. Even close.

        Purely for information:
        The civil war in Russia led to a sharp reduction in the naval composition of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Fleet (RKKF). Due to the enormous loss of warships (sunk, captured by the enemy, interned by the Entente, or completely lost combat effectiveness), the total displacement of the RKKF ships at the beginning of 1921 amounted to only 16,2% of the total displacement of the Russian Imperial Navy. In 1921, compared to 1917, only 5,5% of battleships, 0% cruisers, 10% destroyers, 5,8% of submarines, 2,7% of mine and network loaders remained in the combat strength of the fleet gunboats, 4,9% of messengers and patrol vessels. The losses of mine ships and boats were the least sensitive, and the heaviest in the class of cruisers.
        General degradation affected other types of fleet forces. Thus, the number of coastal artillery batteries in the Baltic Sea fell by three times, in the Black Sea - by half, and in the Russian North the coastal defense system ceased to exist at all. The air units of the RKKF were liquidated in 1920, and only a few air units remained in operational control of the naval commanders, which by the beginning of 1921 had only 36 outdated aircraft with a high degree of physical deterioration.
        The course taken by the Soviet government to reduce the fleet led to the fact that from March 1921 to December 1922 the number of personnel of the RKKF was reduced from 86 to 580, and the volume of allocations for military shipbuilding and ship repair was reduced by about 36 times.
        1. 0
          14 March 2013 20: 16
          On April 29, 1939, the 34-year-old N. G. Kuznetsov was appointed People's Commissar of the RKKF, he became the youngest people's commissar in the Union and the first sailor in this position. All the pre-war years, Kuznetsov continued to prepare the fleet for war, in accordance with the experience of the war with Finland. In 1940-1941, a system of operational readiness of fleets and flotillas was developed and put into operation, the expediency of which was justified at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.
          By the beginning of World War II, the ship crew of the RKKF consisted of 3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 59 destroyers and destroyers, 218 submarines, 269 torpedo boats, 22 patrol ships, 88 minesweepers, 77 submarine hunters, and a number of other submarine hunters and a number of other also auxiliary vessels. There were 219 ships under construction, including 3 battleships, 2 heavy and 7 light cruisers, 45 destroyers, 91 submarine.
          1. +1
            14 March 2013 20: 17
            In the late 80s, the fleet forces (strategic and general purpose) included more than 100 squadrons and divisions, and the total number of personnel of the USSR Navy was about 450 (including 000 thousand in the marine corps). In the combat formation of the fleet were 12,6 surface ships of the ocean and far sea zones, 160 strategic nuclear submarines of the second generation, 83 multipurpose nuclear submarines and 113 diesel-electric ones.
            Here are some data on the composition of the USSR Navy at the end of the 1980s: 64 nuclear and 15 diesel submarines with ballistic missiles, 79 submarines with cruise missiles (including 63 nuclear), 80 multipurpose torpedo nuclear submarines (all data on submarines January 1, 1989), four aircraft carrying ships, 96 cruisers, destroyers and missile frigates, 174 patrol and small anti-submarine ships, 623 boats and minesweeper, 107 landing ships and boats. A total of 1380 warships (not counting auxiliary vessels), 1142 combat aircraft (all data on surface ships as of July 1, 1988).
            At 1991, the year at the shipbuilding enterprises of the USSR was built: two aircraft carriers (including one nuclear), 11 nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, 18 multipurpose nuclear submarines, seven diesel submarines, two missile cruisers (including one nuclear), 10 destroyers and large anti-submarine ships, etc.
        2. +1
          14 March 2013 20: 34
          Thank you very much, but - I know :)))))
          1. +3
            14 March 2013 20: 37
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            but - I know :)

            And I have no doubt about that :)
            Maybe others will know?
    2. VAF
      VAF
      +3
      14 March 2013 12: 17
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Side 3



      Everything is very competent, however, as always, especially .. side 3! +! drinks
      1. +2
        14 March 2013 12: 21
        Thank you Sergey! drinks
  8. Natalia
    +7
    14 March 2013 10: 44
    Hello everyone !!! Well armageddon on the site is over smile
    Since we are talking about the fleet ..... I also want to share information.
    Patrol ship project 22350
    1. "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" - 2012 (approximate year of commissioning)
    Laid on 01.02.06/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
    2. "Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov" - 2014
    Laid on 26.11.09/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
    3. "Admiral Golovko" -?
    Laid on 01.02.12/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
    1. Natalia
      +3
      14 March 2013 10: 45
      Patrol ship project 11356
      1. "Admiral Grigorovich" - 2013
      Laid down on 18.12.10 at Shipyard Yantar (Kaliningrad)
      2. "Admiral Essen" - 2014
      Laid down on 08.07.11 at Shipyard Yantar (Kaliningrad)
      3. "Admiral Makarov" - 2015
      Laid down on 29.02.12 at Shipyard Yantar (Kaliningrad)
      1. Natalia
        +4
        14 March 2013 10: 46
        20380 / 20385 patrol ship
        1. "Lively" - 2012
        Laid on 27.05.05/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
        2. "Persistent" - 2013
        Laid on 10.11.06/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
        3. "Perfect" - 2015
        Laid on 30.06.06 at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant (Komsomolsk-on-Amur)
        4. "Thundering" -?
        Laid on 01.02.12/XNUMX/XNUMX at the North Shipyard (St. Petersburg)
        5. "Loud" -?
        Laid on 17.02.12 at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant (Komsomolsk-on-Amur)
        1. Natalia
          +3
          14 March 2013 10: 47
          Small missile ship of project 21631 "Buyan-M"
          1. "City of Sviyazhsk" - 2012
          Laid on 27.08.10/XNUMX/XNUMX at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard
          2. "Uglich" - 2013
          Laid on 22.07.11/XNUMX/XNUMX at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard
          3. "Veliky Ustyug" - 2013
          Laid on 27.08.11/XNUMX/XNUMX at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard
          1. Natalia
            +1
            14 March 2013 10: 50
            Patrol ship project 11661
            1. "Dagestan" - 2012
            Laid down in 1991 at Zelenodolsk shipyard
            1. Natalia
              +2
              14 March 2013 10: 51
              1. Project 11771 large landing ship
              "Ivan Gren" - 2013
              Laid down on 23.12.04 at Shipyard Yantar (Kaliningrad)
              1. Natalia
                +1
                14 March 2013 10: 52
                SSBN pr.955 "Borey"
                1. "Yuri Dolgoruky" - 2012
                Laid down on 02.11.96 at PO "Sevmash"

                2. "Alexander Nevsky" - 2012
                Laid down on 19.03.04 at PO "Sevmash"
                3. "Vladimir Monomakh" - 2013
                Laid down on 19.03.06 at PO "Sevmash"
                4. "Saint Nicholas" -?
                1. Natalia
                  +5
                  14 March 2013 10: 56
                  MPLATRK pr.885 "Ash"
                  "Severodvinsk" - 2012
                  Laid down on 21.12.93 at PO "Sevmash"
                  "Kazan" -?
                  Laid down on 24.07.09 at PO "Sevmash"

                  I won’t write about diesel submarines ........ and so it’s normal
                  1. Natalia
                    +5
                    14 March 2013 10: 58
                    And of course ......... we meet
                    Mistral-type helicopter landing ship
                    Vladivostok - 2014
                    Laid on 01.02.12 at the DCNS / Alstom shipyard (France)
                    one of them ..........
                    1. Natalia
                      +4
                      14 March 2013 11: 00
                      I really liked this project but ..... it's not coming soon
                      DK pr.21820 "Dugong"
                      one. ? - 1
                      East Shipyard (Vladivostok)
                      2. "Denis Davydov" -?
                      Laid on 18.01.12/XNUMX/XNUMX at the Yaroslavl Shipyard
                      1. VAF
                        VAF
                        0
                        14 March 2013 12: 23
                        Quote: Natalia
                        I really liked this project but ..... it's not coming soon



                        and you don’t know ... what is it .. extreme .. there will be no more, because. abandoned them?
                    2. Natalia
                      +3
                      14 March 2013 12: 27
                      Damn ......... I did a stupid thing lol
                      People please, if you do not like Mistral do not minus my message, you can just comment a little lower and express your dissatisfaction smile
                      And as I understand it, no one likes Mistroal, but I just tried to inform you, not express my opinion winked
                      1. VAF
                        VAF
                        -1
                        14 March 2013 12: 51
                        Quote: Natalia
                        if you do not like Mistral do not minus my message



                        Natalia, I repent ... it's me minusanul.tk. I have a reflex to this barge, like Pavlov’s dog, right away ... minus ... even without delving into it!
                    3. Good Ukraine
                      +1
                      14 March 2013 22: 36
                      Quote: Natalia
                      And of course ......... we meet the Mistral-type helicopter landing ship Vladivostok - 2014 Laid down on 01.02.12/XNUMX/XNUMX at the DCNS / Alstom shipyard (France) one of them ......... ...


                      Despite the cries of "why?"

                      They will be very needed. It would be nice one at a time to the Mediterranean and the Black Sea.
                      Oh, how uncomfortable everyone will be. hi
                  2. +2
                    14 March 2013 13: 57
                    Natasha, write about the DPL. :)
                    1. Natalia
                      +2
                      14 March 2013 14: 18
                      Quote: Andrey77
                      Natasha, write about the DPL. :)

                      Submarine submarine project 677 "Lada"
                      1. "Kronstadt" - 2013
                      2. "Sevastopol" - 2015
                      1. Natalia
                        +2
                        14 March 2013 14: 19
                        DFL project 06363
                        1. "Novorossiysk" - 2013
                        2. "Rostov-on-Don" - 2014
                2. Good Ukraine
                  0
                  14 March 2013 22: 27
                  Quote: Natalia
                  4. "Saint Nicholas" -?


                  5. Prince Vladimir -? - it seems so?
                  1. 0
                    14 March 2013 22: 38
                    Yes, they renamed it, I think. In honor of the Grand Duke of Kiev, but we know that ... And there is also "Vladimir Monomakh" and T-90 "Vladimir" they call smile
                    1. Good Ukraine
                      +1
                      14 March 2013 22: 43
                      Quote: Bronis
                      Yes, renamed, it seems


                      no no.

                      I'm talking about number 5 - the fifth is laid
                      1. +1
                        14 March 2013 22: 56
                        No. The 4th "Borey" was laid = initially they wanted to call "St. Nicholas", But they changed their minds, they called "Prince Vladimir"
                        Here: http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20100208/208227937.html
                        They plan to lay the fifth and sixth boats in the summer and in the fall of 2013:
                        http://www.lenta.ru/news/2013/01/14/borealis/
        2. VAF
          VAF
          -3
          14 March 2013 12: 21
          Quote: Natalia
          20380 / 20385 patrol ship


          Are you talking about the .. "fire burner" .. which is still .. being repaired? recourse
      2. VAF
        VAF
        0
        14 March 2013 12: 20
        Quote: Natalia
        Patrol ship project 11356


        Well, from this ...... in 10 years! recourse
        1. Good Ukraine
          0
          14 March 2013 22: 46
          Quote: vaf
          Well, from this ...... in 10 years!


          Project 11356 is set up and frigates fly out like hot cakes. And they will also go to the Black Sea Fleet and the Mediterranean.
          1. VAF
            VAF
            0
            14 March 2013 22: 55
            Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
            Project 11356 configured


            Or more specifically ... so to speak ... "read out the entire list .. please" wink
            When, in which fleet was introduced, etc.?
    2. +6
      14 March 2013 10: 51
      Natalia, you will forgive generously, but you yourself read something that was posted on the site? :)
      Quote: Natalia
      1. "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" - 2012 (estimated year of commissioning)

      In the yard, if anything, 2013 year :)))) And where is Gorshkov? But there is no Gorshkov, and when it will be - it is unknown, although they promise to begin testing in 2013.
      1. Natalia
        +4
        14 March 2013 10: 55
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In the yard, if that, 2013 :)))) And where is Gorshkov?

        mmmmm ........... well, you know, here the delay is small, but I'm sure we will fix it soon winked
        1. +5
          14 March 2013 11: 01
          Quote: Natalia
          but I'm sure we will fix it soon

          Yeah. But what’s interesting is that, for example, you give the 11356 frigates a readiness period of 13,14 and 15 for a year. While their bookmark took place in 10,11 and 12 year. That is, it is assumed that these frigates will be built in three years.
          Everything would be fine, but for Hindu friends we build similar ships for FIVE years (the last Trikand laid down in 2008 should be handed over to 2013.
          Doesn’t suggest any thoughts, by chance? :)
          1. Natalia
            -3
            14 March 2013 11: 09
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Doesn’t suggest any thoughts, by chance? :)

            No sir does not suggest .... everything is fine with us sir, thank you sir soldier
            1. +5
              14 March 2013 11: 25
              And even the fact that, on average, Indian frigates have 2 years between launching and delivery to the fleet, while our lead Grigorovich has not yet been launched - too? :)
              Okay, I will not bother you with questions :))) I'm glad that everything is fine with you :)))
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +1
          14 March 2013 12: 24
          Quote: Natalia
          Well, you see, we have a small delay here, but I'm sure we will fix it soon



          I would like to clarify .... who has it at US and .. who is it WE?
    3. VAF
      VAF
      0
      14 March 2013 12: 19
      Quote: Natalia
      Since we are talking about the fleet ..... I also want to share information.


      Dear Nataia .. with this .. "information" so in 5-7 years ... come lol
      1. Natalia
        +2
        14 March 2013 12: 33
        Quote: vaf
        Dear Nataia .. with this .. "information" so in 5-7 years ... come

        sad ........ after SEVEN years to come to you belay
        You kick me out recourse ...........
        ................ crying
        Well ........ eh
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +2
          14 March 2013 12: 53
          Quote: Natalia
          . after seven years to come to you


          Natalia, this is not for me, but like ... on the site with this news, but for me ... by this time ... it will be possible only with .. colors! soldier

          Quote: Natalia
          You kick me out


          God forbid you .. think so love
          1. +3
            14 March 2013 13: 09
            Quote: vaf
            but to me .. by this time .. it will be possible only with ..flowers!

            A DOG WHO WILL WALK? !!
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +1
              14 March 2013 13: 18
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              A DOG WHO WILL WALK? !!



              So to him by this time the same ... the deadline will come ... of the life cycle, he specially selected this way ... No.
              1. +2
                14 March 2013 13: 49
                Greetings to Sergey ... You have a very long time to tell and teach young people here, so long years))))) drinks
                1. VAF
                  VAF
                  +2
                  14 March 2013 14: 00
                  Quote: regin
                  so long years to you)


                  Hello Vladimir! Well. of course. thanks for the kind word drinks but here, as in a song ... "and if suddenly, someday, you want to ... surrender .. you will not be allowed anywhere. your years .. your wealth"! recourse
              2. +2
                14 March 2013 14: 16
                Then, Sergey, I wish many, long and happy years to your dog, because you, as a loving owner, certainly will not leave him alone! Yes
  9. +5
    14 March 2013 10: 57
    In general, it would be possible to get by with such a sign
    From which it is clear that from the voiced by Shoigu 78 ships including 24 submarines of all types we are building 20 surface ships and 11 submarines. And it remains to 2020 7,5 years.
    1. Natalia
      +1
      14 March 2013 11: 03
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      In general, it would be possible to get by with such a sign

      mmmdaaaaaa ...... recourse
      You are absolutely right sir ... ... you did better ......... crying crying crying
      1. Natalia
        +3
        14 March 2013 11: 54
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In general, it would be possible to get by with such a sign

        ........... I just wanted to express it not just in a schematic version, but as if so that it would be possible to touch what is called (albeit visually) what each of the announced projects is, and the initial data on their beginning-completion of construction (even the intended one) ..... mmmmmdaaa exactly ...
        .... I came up with it and it would be great to do something else on this site, which is like social surveys ........ well, like:
        Which of these presented ships (fighters) is more effective in your opinion ?:
        - Well, a few options for brands of types, etc. (including foreign samples)
        winked Thus, practical online we will know about the greater popularity of a particular type of weapon.
        or there ....... Do you consider Putin an effective president ?:
        - YES
        - NO ..... well, also by itself, + then information support .....
        ........ and you are not modern by accident?
        1. +5
          14 March 2013 12: 05
          Quote: Natalia
          ........ and you are not modern by accident?

          No, what are you :)))) Do you see my number "one" in brackets? This is the number of warnings from the moderators :)))
          Quote: Natalia
          Do you consider Putin an effective president ?:

          Not so necessary :)))) But like this:
          "You won't refuse to vote for Putin for the nth time, will you?
          1) YES (do not refuse)
          2) NO (you will not refuse) "
          :) laughing laughing laughing
          Quote: Natalia
          .... I came up with it and it would be great to do something else on this site, which is like social surveys ........ well, like:

          In my opinion, you can do it yourself - the opportunity to arrange a vote seemed to be when you are doing an article.
          And - I do not know who is minus you, but it's not me.
          1. Natalia
            0
            14 March 2013 12: 31
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            No, what are you :))))

            winked ........... mmm okay lol
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +3
          14 March 2013 12: 28
          Quote: Natalia
          Which of these presented ships (fighters) is more effective in your opinion ?:


          Effective for what and what purposes ??? According to the plans of our Defense Ministry, the most "effective" was ... Rook! wink
          1. Natalia
            0
            14 March 2013 14: 22
            Quote: vaf
            According to the plans of our Defense Ministry, the most "effective" was ... Rook!

            PRDK pr.21980 "Grachonok"
    2. +1
      14 March 2013 13: 38
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

      In general, it would be possible to get by with such a sign
      From which it is clear that from the voiced by Shoigu 78 ships including 24 submarines of all types we are building 20 surface ships and 11 submarines. And it remains to 2020 7,5 years.

      now clouds are gathering over the corvettes of the project 20380/20385. Information in Izvestia was also published in a number of other sources: http://vpk.name/news/85348_voennomorskoi_flot_otkazalsya_ot_nevidimyih_korvetov.

      html
      By and large, this project was to become the most massive of what was planned to be delivered (corvettes were planned before 35 pcs.). Now we are talking about developing a new project or fine-tuning the old. - this is time and money.
    3. 0
      14 March 2013 16: 17
      "From which it is clearly seen that out of 78 ships voiced by Shoigu, including 24 submarines of all types, we are building 20 surface ships and 11 submarines."

      According to the given plate dates are indicated to 2015 of the year, and not to 2020!
      1. +4
        14 March 2013 16: 40
        Quote: ZloDeey
        According to the given plate dates are indicated to 2015 of the year, and not to 2020!

        Who cares? Do you think that we can build what is on the tablet and then quickly and quickly finish the rest? :)
        1. 0
          15 March 2013 22: 11
          I agree that the plan is clearly overpriced in production, but in fairness I would like to emphasize that construction was brought before 2015, all the same, the capacities would increase by that time and not 20 surface ships and 11 submarines would come out, but rather more wink
  10. +1
    14 March 2013 11: 19
    The creation of the Mediterranean squadron is not a declaration, but the program itself, which is a powerful impetus for the further development of the fleet, the construction of new ships, the modernization of existing ones, support, development, financing of the military-industrial complex, the creation of new jobs ...
    1. +3
      14 March 2013 11: 43
      Quote: Oper
      The creation of the Mediterranean squadron is not a declaration, but the program itself, which is a powerful impetus for the further development of the fleet, the construction of new ships, the modernization of existing ones, support, development, financing of the military-industrial complex, the creation of new jobs ...

      And, for example, a program to bring the BSF, KSF, DKBF and Pacific Fleet to a fully operational state would not serve such an impetus? Give us only great achievements?
  11. +3
    14 March 2013 11: 51
    I am not a moroman nirazu. Therefore, I can argue nonsense. But I believe that the constant presence of our fleet in the Mediterranean is good.

    Yes, we have few ships, they are old and do not have overwhelming firepower. But, gentlemen, what are you doing there, have the US Navy gathered overclocks? :) So it is necessary to be more modest, not to world domination for now :) for starters, it would be nice to be able to support (at least eyebrows) convenient regional regimes.

    Yes, we do not have a stable ship group. But the same went to the national teams to drive Somalia pirates. So will national teams go here, the goal is not to conquer the Mediterranean, the goal is to ensure a permanent presence. And do not need here "Orlany" whom they are here to scare?

    Yes, we do not have a permanent base. But Tartus will not become a base until you need at least for something other than growing tomatoes. And Mistrali, by the way, is just the ships for solving the "colonial tasks." The landing on them can live relatively comfortably.

    And then, the opportunity to go to the Mediterranean Sea is still a lure for so many modern guys going to the army. After all, not the children of oligarchs are bursting there. For many, this is the only chance to see "warm countries."
    Yes, and the officer corps will also be useful to hone skills. Or maybe remember ... :)
    1. +1
      14 March 2013 12: 19
      Quote: abc_alex
      But prefabricated groups went to Somalia to drive pirates.

      Who was walking? Shaposhnikov? Is this the task of the BOD of the Papuans to drive on junks? There is simply nothing more to send for long duty.
      Quote: abc_alex
      But I believe that the constant presence of our fleet in the Mediterranean is good.

      This is good, but today the navel will untie this task for us, because almost everything that goes will have to be sent there, unless the creation of the squadron carries a purely decorative task.
      1. +1
        14 March 2013 15: 44
        Why unleash? Or are you going to oust the Shtatovs and Europeans from there? wink
        What is interesting at the moment besides Tartus? Nothing, actually. And for his control, the demonstration of the flag and the moral support of Assad, neither an aircraft carrier nor Orlan is needed. The same BOD 1155 there for the eyes as a flagship. Their composition seems to be 8? You can establish a watch.

        And the other composition of the naval group, submarines, landing ships - this is already as the tasks develop. And not right away.

        Why now drive a combat-ready formation there? Whom to worry about? The States will not be afraid, and the local Arabs will have our fleet before the lamp.

        If Assad will hold out, it will be possible to send the BDK, in Tartus, "cultivate the beds" in collaboration with local comrades.

        In the meantime, even one large ship with support ships is enough for the implementation of political and even "also political" tasks.
  12. +2
    14 March 2013 11: 52
    There was such a thought:
    1. Do not hand over the aircraft carrier to the Indians, return the money to them
    due to this, we already have 2 kuzi (already in 2014 it will be possible to start combat training on the ship, adjust the defense order for airplanes and helicopters for the second aircraft carrier (heavy aircraft carrier) to complete the ship in 2015 already)
    2. Put on the modernization of the Orlans (3 units, even 4 of the year to modernize, it still turns out to be operational in 2017-2018 years)
    3. Buy back from Ukraine the last unfinished cruiser sistership of the missile cruiser "Moskva" and finish building it according to the original or modernized project with the development of the systems of the promising destroyer.
    4. Put on the cap. repair a large landing ship (forgot the name) displacement 12000t.
    5 Total we have + 1AV + 4 cruisers +1 BDK
    Already that but not enough:
    1.In 2015-2016, lay down 2 aircraft carriers under the Ulyanovsk project with commissioning in 2022-2023
    For the remaining time, prepare the slipways and modernize the equipment at the shipbuilding enterprises (there will be a lot of jam-shuts after the Sochi Olympics), work out a chain of allies with the modernization of allied equipment, in the worst case, create factories from scratch.
    2 In 2015-2016, lay down 4 ships according to the upgraded Moscow project
    In general, this is my vision to really equip at least somehow the Mediterranean squadron. Throw everything in slippers
    1. +5
      14 March 2013 12: 07
      If we don’t pass the aircraft carrier to the Indians, we will forget about 1300 T-90S tanks, which should go to their troops + on the Bramos rocket + on other major contracts + very worthless relationships. One aircraft carrier is not worth such huge losses, you just think about the numbers of these losses, no one will do it.
    2. +8
      14 March 2013 12: 20
      Quote: jayich
      There was such a thought:

      let's understand
      Quote: jayich
      1. Do not hand over the aircraft carrier to the Indians, return the money to them

      A very attractive thought, but not. Hindus are almost our last strategic partners, and they will send us away and forever if we teach them such a thing. No matter how you want to get Gorshkov back, but it's not worth it.
      Quote: jayich
      2. Put on the modernization of the Orlans (3 units, even 4 of the year to modernize, it still turns out to be operational in 2017-2018 years)

      There seems to be cheaper and faster new build. As far as I know, only "Nakhimov" is repairable
      Quote: jayich
      3. Buy back from Ukraine the last unfinished cruiser sistership of the missile cruiser "Moskva" and finish building it according to the original or modernized project with the development of the systems of the promising destroyer.

      Alas, this is a completely hopeless undertaking. The thing is that Ukraine wants absolutely fabulous money for this cruiser, i.e. they want to receive for it, almost like a ready-made cruiser + all the costs that Ukraine incurred during the period of its maintenance. We, in the case of a purchase, it turns out we will pay a lot more than such a cruiser, and we will get a semi-finished product that requires major repairs + a ship that will not serve for a long time standing at the wall. As a result, we will pay a lot, but we will get very little and very soon.
      Quote: jayich
      4. Put on the cap. repair a large landing ship (forgot the name) displacement 12000t.

      Maybe it’s possible, I don’t really know what was with him and in what condition he was. But we must take into account our shipbuilding capacities; alas, they are by no means dimensionless. Having invested too much in ship restoration, we may be faced with the fact that there will be nobody and nothing to build new ships on. It is clear that shipbuilding needs to be developed, but this cannot be done in an hour.
      Quote: jayich
      1.In 2015-2016, lay down 2 aircraft carriers under the Ulyanovsk project with commissioning in 2022-2023

      we have nowhere to lay two such ships. One is possible - at Sevmash, but the project still needs to be redone.
      1. +1
        14 March 2013 12: 43
        Andrey, it turns out that you still need to use the Nikolaev shipyards .. I won’t manage to do without them .. Well, how can they get their hands out and negotiate with them, this is the second question. but they should build under us and not hell knows for whom .. this is my opinion. hi
        1. +3
          14 March 2013 13: 00
          You are right in everything, but there is one thing - Nikolaev shipyards now practically do not exist. Of the 40 000 people at the Black Sea shipbuilding industry, 2 000 people remained (mainly administrative staff) And what remains is ... here http://www.mkshipyard.com.ua/projects.html
          1. 0
            14 March 2013 13: 24
            13.03.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine granted the Black Sea Shipyard (ChSZ) the right to import military goods for the implementation of the state target program for the construction of ships of the "corvette" class.

            The relevant decree of No. 144 of March 6, 2013 is posted on the government website.

            According to the document, the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant is included in the list of subjects of foreign economic activity entitled to export and import military goods and goods that contain information constituting a state secret.

            Thus, ChSZ received the right to import military goods of positions ML2, ML4, ML9 for the needs of its own production, including goods containing information constituting state secrets, within the framework of the state defense order for the construction of corvette-class ships under project 58250.

            As UNIAN reported earlier, the first ship of Project 58250 was laid down in May 2011 at ChSZ and was named "Vladimir the Great". The developer of the project was the state-owned enterprise "Research and Design Center for Shipbuilding" (Nikolaev).

            PJSC "Black Sea Shipyard" is one of the largest shipyards in Ukraine.

            90,25% of ChSZ shares belong to PJSC Kherson Shipyard, which at the end of 2007 acquired this block of shares from OJSC Sudmashprom (Nikolaev) on the terms of a purchase and sale agreement agreed with the State Property Fund of Ukraine and the Antimonopoly Committee. The state is the minority shareholder of the enterprise.

            Can they still move a bit? If you receive the order, you can slowly recruit the staff. Of course, they will not immediately order the aircraft carrier lol but with small ships you can try ..
            1. +2
              14 March 2013 16: 41
              Quote: ruton
              Can they still move a bit? If you receive the order, then the staff will slowly be able to dial

              What's the point? We have our own shipyards in the same condition unmeasured. It’s better to develop your own.
              You understand, there, after all, all the iron is partly stolen, partly rotted, and partly stale. ChSZ in order to build aircraft carriers such a major overhaul is needed, that ... I don’t think that it will be much more expensive than the construction of a new slipway
  13. +1
    14 March 2013 12: 07
    Vladimir, the Mediterranean squadron is not a great achievement, it is a necessity.
    1. +1
      14 March 2013 12: 20
      Quote: Oper
      The Mediterranean squadron is not a great achievement, it is a necessity.

      I think the need is first a direct cover of your shore.
  14. 0
    14 March 2013 12: 26
    Vladimir, it’s better to cover your shore at a decent distance, the further the better! lol Well, great achievements too - such a mentality.
    1. +1
      14 March 2013 12: 55
      Quote: Oper
      Vladimir, it’s better to cover your shore at a decent distance, the further the better!

      So it’s always like this: it’s better to go to the fair with your fists to wave, while your neighbor’s wife at home hmm .... wink
  15. +1
    14 March 2013 12: 49
    a little off topic, but the neighbors are awake ..
    13.03.2013/2/12 The Jamaran-XNUMX destroyer will soon be handed over to the Iranian Naval Forces in the Caspian Sea, Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi said, Iranian English-language Press-TV reported on March XNUMX.

    The new destroyer Jamaran-2 was created exclusively by Iranian specialists and, according to the Iranian authorities, became a technological breakthrough in the military industry of the Islamic Republic. Jamaran-2 is a symbol of the power of Iran's maritime industry and defense industry, "Brigadier General Vahidi said on March 11.

    According to the minister, the Jamaran-2 destroyer equipped with modern technologies will be handed over to the Iranian Navy after launching and the latest tests. The new destroyer with a displacement of 1420 tons is armed with surface-to-air, surface-to-surface missiles, torpedoes, and is also equipped with modern radars and electronic systems.
  16. +1
    14 March 2013 13: 02
    At least one Ulyanovsk will be good, just as long as the promising av is not laid before 2025, Kuzya will simply drown during this time, and here, first of all, the development of the technology for producing such large ships can be finalized, but this time and a very long time, so like a pretty long-lived ship (50 years), I’ll agree to a maximum of catapults, but damn it’s almost an additional reactor to be installed to power them, and this is time alteration again, and it’s not there catastrophically. It’s just meant to be ready by then already a technical project of a promising aircraft carrier.
    The building berth can also be built in St. Petersburg or modernized, I’m saying that after the Olympics there will be enough workmen. There is a bookmark option in Vladik, but a shipyard is just being built there and we’ll be building components around the country for 10 years, or even 15. What’s good about Ulyanovsk it is built in a modular design in sections of 500-2000 tons that can be transported along rivers.
    It’s a pity, of course, that we will have to give the second Kuzyu, but if necessary, then it is necessary.
    It will not be cheaper to build new Orlans, it is fit for repair, I was convinced everything myself when the service was urgent when the 30-year-old 131 ZILs made marches of 300 km per day. It’s understandable that it’s easier to build new ones, but there is NO such an opportunity, so it will be more expensive and not more profitable, but at least 15 years after that, it will be good, the replacement will arrive in time, they will just help to modernize the industry now and establish logistics between enterprises. Upon completion of their modernization, personnel will be accumulated and the production chain will be debugged. And then we will be able to lay large ships of the ocean zone i.e., 2018-2019. Unfortunately, this is a reality that you can’t escape from, so upgrading so far is the only way out.
    And you can agree with Ukraine, for example, by canceling the recycling fee for cars imported into Russia.
  17. 0
    14 March 2013 14: 30
    Dear comrades ... forgive my technical illiteracy, but let’s say such a connection is too “weak and lousy”: one 1144 ship, one 1164 project, 11540 Hawk project, two BODs and finally one 949A submarine + of course support ships (tankers , refrigerators, etc.)? This is if you scrape on the “gimbal” for “now”.
    1. +2
      14 March 2013 14: 46
      Quote: Skuto
      Well, let’s say such a connection is too "weak and lousy"

      The point is not that it is weak or lousy (the potential adversary will try to stay away from the TARKR for a long time to come), but that we have ONE such ship and it cannot be permanently in the Mediterranean. The same applies to "Moscow" - we have one RRC for the entire Black Sea Fleet. There is one more in the north, but it is still under repair, and then it will be transferred to the Pacific Fleet - and rightly so, because there are some unhealthy inclinations towards the primordially Russian Kuril Islands ...
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +1
        14 March 2013 15: 13
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The same applies to "Moscow" - this RRC



        Andrey ... after the "sad events" with the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk. when its entire SF, headed by Peter the Great .. they looked for and could not find ..... well, the events of 08.08 ..... "sea battle" on the Black Sea .... I have ... if it is fair ... such doubts in the combat capabilities of our gallant surface floa appeared that ...... well, about weapons .... it's generally ..... no words!
        1. +3
          14 March 2013 16: 35
          Dear Sergey !
          Quote: vaf
          after the "sad events" with the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk. when her entire SF, headed by Peter the Great .. searched and could not find

          It’s just, as far as I know, it’s extremely difficult to find something underwater in the Northern Fleet - it is very noisy in those places, so there were situations when, say, the crew of the destroyer of the 956 destroyer saw the submarine (visually) and the equipment did not (although, to tell the truth , on 956 she is very weak). Well, after K-141 lay down on the ground ...
          As for the battle of the war on 08.08.08, everything is too complicated there. Georgian missile boats were blown up at the berths, yes, but there were other boats, and, as far as I understand, the location of some (such as, for example, the Grif patrol boats) has not yet been established. Similarly, it is not clear where the two Georgian patrol boats, converted from seiners, have gone - the hull of one of them is rusting in Poti, but where is the other? And the landing craft, which MDK-01 and 02 have disappeared somewhere.
          The fact that ours did not drown the Georgian missile boat is a fact. But does this mean that we didn’t drown anyone? I'm not sure.
          And besides, the P-120 was firing, the rocket, I would say, is of a very old age (the release was completed in 1992, i.e., at the very best, it was already 16 years old) besides, this rocket was not created against boats :) If it was used for something small, it could easily fly over the ship (with an American "harpoon" there was such a case when an Iranian missile boat was fired - it was already damaged and began to submerge, so the harpoon just flew higher). ..
  18. 0
    14 March 2013 14: 39
    Found ... Kravchenko. What he did? We need a beginning, and then the ships will appear, and combat training will begin. And so rant and Russ - mother can pro .... sleep.
  19. NickitaDembelnulsa
    0
    14 March 2013 14: 48
    Return of the Jedi to the Galaxy of Middle-earth.
  20. Ruslan_F38
    0
    14 March 2013 15: 35
    It is necessary to modernize and repair existing ships (we have such ships (including cruisers, destroyers, etc., not a dozen of them in the worst condition), but in parallel to build new ones. Then we can talk about restoring the presence , but for now these are just conversations not supported by anything.
  21. 0
    14 March 2013 15: 42
    The Baltic Fleet
    Submarines: 3
    3 diesel submarines

    Surface ships: 53
    2 destroyers, 2 corvettes, 2 patrol ships, 4 small missile ships, 7 small anti-submarine ships, 7 missile boats, 5 base minesweepers, 15 raid minesweepers, 4 large amphibious assault ships, 2 small amphibious assault ships, 3 amphibious assault boats

    Total Black Sea Fleet Submarines: 2
    2 diesel submarines

    Surface ships: 41
    1 missile cruiser, 2 large anti-submarine ships, 3 patrol ships, 7 small anti-submarine ships, 4 small missile ships, 5 missile boats, 7 sea minesweepers, 2 base minesweepers, 2 raid minesweepers, 7 large landing ships, 2 landing ships

    Total SF Submarines: 44
    10 nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, 3 nuclear submarines with cruise missiles, 14 multi-purpose nuclear submarines, 9 nuclear submarines for special purposes, 1 diesel submarine for special purposes, 7 diesel submarines

    Surface ships: 41
    1 heavy aircraft carrier cruiser, 2 heavy nuclear missile cruisers, 1 missile cruiser, 5 large anti-submarine ships, 2 destroyers, 3 small missile ships, 2 artillery boats, 6 small anti-submarine ships, 4 sea minesweepers, 6 base minesweepers, 1 raid minesweeper, 4 large landing craft, 4 landing craft
    Total Pacific Fleet Submarines: 21
    3 nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, 5 nuclear submarines with cruise missiles, 5 multi-purpose nuclear submarines, 8 diesel submarines

    Surface ships: 50
    1 heavy nuclear missile cruiser, 1 missile cruiser, 4 large anti-submarine ships, 4 destroyers, 8 small anti-submarine ships, 4 small missile ships, 11 missile boats, 2 sea minesweepers, 7 base minesweepers, 4 large landing ships, 4 landing boats

    That's what has not yet been cut and how would it walk (some part of them)
    1. 0
      14 March 2013 16: 12
      This is what counts. But I suppose there are not so many "running" from this. It's hard to judge by submarines. But in terms of surface forces - remember what ships sound on long voyages? "Peter the Great", "Kuznetsov", "Moscow", "Admiral Chebanenko" and 4-5 others (but much less often). On submarines - it's more difficult for everyone. Their task is secrecy. Surface ships are showing the flag - they are often mentioned in the media. So you can get an impression, albeit the most general one.
    2. +2
      14 March 2013 16: 57
      take the Baltic Fleet
      Quote: jayich
      3 diesel submarines

      Of these, one B-585 "St. Petersburg" has an unclear combat capability, since for a long time it did not reach the required performance characteristics.
      Quote: jayich
      2 destroyer,

      Both are in reserve
      Quote: jayich
      2 Corvette

      Not intended for long trips. Of course, if you want to live, you still don't get up to speed, but ...
      In addition - the ships are new, there are problems with both the chassis and weapons
      Quote: jayich
      2 patrol ship

      Everything seems to be in order with them.
      RTOs, IPC and RK are coastal
    3. 0
      14 March 2013 20: 31
      Quote: jayich
      That's what has not yet been cut and how would it walk (some part of them)

      As part of the Russian Navy at the end of the 2012 year were:
      "Aircraft carrier" - 1
      Cruiser:
      type "Orlan" 3, of which in the ranks 1
      RC type "Atlant" - only 3 in service 2
      EM - total 7, in the ranks of 3
      BOD - total 11, in the ranks of 10
      BDK - 19
      MDKVP -2 in the ranks of 1
      SC - 7
      minesweepers - 16
      Sub
      APLB - 12 in the ranks of 8
      APLKR - 8, in the ranks of 4
      Torpedo tubes - 20, in the ranks of 11
      Total: 60 surface and 23 submarine warfare in the amount of 83 of which 20 landing
  22. +3
    14 March 2013 16: 00
    Need to build more and faster. If officials drive not on Mercedes, but on a hand - the country will not lose anything - with a flashing light no difference for speed in the city. Oligarchs, such as Deribas, who do not know how to control what they stole with the help of Chubais (and this one has to confiscate everything, and, according to Chinese experience, shoot him), deprive both the privatized and the money. So are all cultural figures living abroad on money (especially in show business) earned in Russia. Nationalize the central bank.
    Then the money for this will appear.
    1. 0
      14 March 2013 22: 51
      all limbs FOR, only
      http://voprosik.net/naznachenie-nabiullinoj-na-post-glavy-cb/
      http://voprosik.net/kto-takaya-nabiullina-i-chto-ozhidat/
  23. +1
    14 March 2013 16: 10
    So what is the article about? "Something is falling apart", something is not. In the 1960s, there was a clear statement from Turkey that they would be erased from the face of the Earth if they were not allowed to pass. They still remember.
    And the base in Syria? Greece is ready to wholesale and retail its islands for 100 years without conditions.
    The Foreign Ministry is always the "Achilles' foot" of our policy, since there are a lot of moles there.
    So you can and without the leverage of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs arrive on a Greek island, bought with money .... (there is someone there) and begin to build a base.
    Or, in our opinion, is it illegal?
  24. 0
    14 March 2013 17: 04
    Quote: jayich
    2 destroyer,

    Both are in reserve
    here they are in modernization if it is certainly possible (drowned at the berths)
    1. +2
      14 March 2013 17: 35
      The 956 project has very big problems with EI, and changing it to something else is expensive and futile
  25. 0
    14 March 2013 17: 16
    There is a good lighter carrier "Sevmorput", now it is idle, but it would be possible to make a universal highly autonomous ship for the Mediterranean squadron. here you have a UDC and a helicopter carrier, a supply vessel, and a command post, and if you put container installations with "calibers" then it will be a floating arsenal, and if you put containers with "S400" or "redoubt" (it is not so difficult to develop) - there will be a powerful air defense squadron or base in Syria. And note it all in one bottle, our favorite modularity principle.
    1. +3
      14 March 2013 17: 34
      Quote: mark1
      but it would be possible to make a universal highly autonomous ship for the Mediterranean squadron. here you have a UDC and a helicopter carrier, a supply vessel, and a command post, and if you put container installations with "calibers" then it will be a floating arsenal, and if you put containers with "S400" or "redoubt" (it is not so difficult to develop) - there will be a powerful air defense squadron or base in Syria. And notice everything in one bottle

      Yeah. And if, sorry, to tie a saw to his ass - so he will finish the baobab ...
      From what you painted for him, a mass grave for the crew will turn out
      1. +1
        14 March 2013 17: 40
        From what I have painted, we get a highly automatic universal platform, it is not at all necessary to shove everything there at once, and the life of the crew also depends on the training and competence of the command, you can ditch the "nimitz" easily and naturally
        1. +1
          14 March 2013 17: 53
          Quote: mark1
          you can ditch and "nimitz" easily and naturally

          How?
          1. 0
            14 March 2013 18: 21
            tie the saw to the ass and send it to cut baobabs
            1. 0
              14 March 2013 19: 13
              Thank you, clear and exhaustive.
          2. +2
            14 March 2013 20: 35
            Drink bourbon and open kingstones. wink
        2. +2
          14 March 2013 20: 45
          Quote: mark1
          From what I painted, it turns out a highly autonomous universal platform,

          Remind you of the story of the Atlantic Conveyor?
          1. 0
            14 March 2013 21: 35
            And what is instructive of this story, as far as I remember, there were still a lot of ships sunk - 2 destroyers, 2 frigates, a cruiser, etc., etc., by the way, the container ship sank for several days
            1. 0
              14 March 2013 22: 29
              All modern missile ships - corvettes, frigates, destroyers, RRC (except for the "Orlan") "grew" from the classic destroyers and are "ships of one attack". their distinctive feature is the almost complete absence of constructive protection.
    2. +2
      14 March 2013 17: 51
      Yeah, and to do the appropriate communications, to install various weapon systems, and also to make a management system for this entire economy. Internal layout - where to put helicopters, where to store fuel, elevators? Cutting the body? Increase in crew numbers - appropriate accommodations. This is technically unrealistic. If everything was so easy, they would serve on such ersatz ... During the wars, the military made "peaceful" ships. But nothing good came of it, and they did it not because of a good life. And only as a last resort.
  26. +1
    14 March 2013 18: 16
    "Sevmorput" itself is a large container into which you can shove everything. anything. Delivered modules (containers) with "calibers", here's a floating arsenal, put modules with "redoubt" - an air defense base, as the UDC was designed to be used back in Soviet times. Its combat stability without security is of course low, but not lower than that of the mistral, and who will release it without security. Of course, there are a lot of controversial nuances, but similar projects existed before, the same "Khalzan" The meaning of this ersatz is not to replace real combat boats, but that you can quickly, cheaply and unexpectedly for your opponent to build up your power in a dangerous direction
  27. Perchik
    -2
    14 March 2013 18: 34
    I read the material, read the posts ....

    I don’t see the slightest need to spend money on another naval toy of the military.
    There is nothing for them to do in the Mediterranean, there is really nothing!


    Our glorious sailors from the Northern Fleet want to swim in the warm lands, let them buy tourist packages and have a rest there with their families.
    There wasn’t enough to receive spitting in my direction on vacation - no one there is waiting for the Russian military.
    1. +2
      14 March 2013 18: 44
      The Russians are not expected to be anywhere; the Russians themselves go where they need to. And if you don’t give the military money for toys, we can become toys ourselves (puppets or boobies)
    2. +1
      14 March 2013 20: 39
      Yes, the Russian Navy does not need to go anywhere. We left the base for an external raid and went home ...
  28. +1
    14 March 2013 20: 46
    In general, as a resident of Sevastopol, I was always touched by the concept of "stealth" for ships. In good weather, from the top floor of the city administration (city center), you can view Evpatoria through binoculars (90 km in a straight line), from Mount Ai-Petri (South Coast) you can stare at the "Turkish coast" - 250 km in a straight line.
    The Mediterranean is a little bigger than our puddle. and the weather is good there more often. Why do you need stealth when you can see them through marine binoculars? Not to mention artillery optical "long-range vision devices"?
    From the guys who served in the Northern Fleet I heard that in the Arctic (in good weather) you can see from the bridge for 200 km with simple binoculars! (the peculiarity of the Globe affects - there is almost no "globe" is felt).
    Himself personally in "art.dalno.vid" in the Black Sea viewed Constanta (Romania) almost from Cape Chersonesos (Sevastopol) ..
    From the beaches of Sevastopol with the naked eye (in good or frosty weather) I see Nikolayevka without binoculars (50-60 km in a straight line), however, my vision is "farsighted" x2.
    --------------------------------------
    The question is: where, when and who and from what should this "stealth technology" save in the sea-ocean, where, in the absence of terrain, the visibility is maximum?
    --------------------------------------
    By the way, in 1960, the U-2 reconnaissance aircraft was not detected by radars, but by the narrow-eyed Yakut-Tungus-Kalmyk (they have special eyesight) in art. far vision device.
    And through such things, our sailors stared at the Union on the nudist beaches of Italy, France and Florida.

    So why do we need a "square-gnarled ship", which a Chukchi hunter can see through binoculars or a periscope without a radar?
    1. 0
      14 March 2013 21: 13
      I dare to suggest, for a few things:
      1. Some decrease in radar signature at long distances. In theory, such a ship will be discovered somewhat later than usual.
      2. Demonstration of Manufacturability "industry
      3. If stealth, then it should be visible and invisible with all the consequences ... (relevant for any country).
      In general, the passion for the topic is great. The Ministry of Defense even in the year in 2011 organized a competition among designers for the best look-3d model (!) Invisible corvette. Prize - in the area of ​​2000000 rub. The designers of the watch factory Boguslavsky and Kazantsev won
      http://www.rg.ru/2011/03/04/corvette-anons.html
      Not weak money, I must say for concept art
    2. 0
      14 March 2013 21: 32
      Sometimes there is haze at sea and your optical abilities will be useless. And sometimes night happens on Earth .....
    3. +2
      14 March 2013 22: 09
      In! at least one sane person !!! You think absolutely right! Stealth is necessary, aircraft carrier is necessary, armature is necessary. Damn, like children in a sandbox ... They don’t know what they need and why, because of this Syrdyukov’s prosperity, they need Mistral, sometimes not, then footcloths, then no, how the whole thing breaks ... If it’s a matter of sawing, then what does defense have to do with two different things. Enough for you Kuznetsov, but restore all the EAGLES, build new ATLANTS and BOD, restore the production of GRANITES. you hide from WHO? let them hide themselves, and whoever didn’t hide themselves to blame. And about the Mediterranean lake ... look less west, dibilism, a contagious thing. You see, they decided, only sclerosis ...! No, there is more and more confidence that Russia and the ARMY are ruled by DI ILA, GO YOU AND YOU!
      I work with the Germans, they are bastard of all this, common sense, however, people, maybe after the Second World War the brains got better, but the fact remains.
      Z.Y. I am not for anyone. I am against TEHSUK whose orbit is an ellipse.
  29. 0
    14 March 2013 21: 15
    Something is not attached.
  30. +1
    14 March 2013 22: 32
    And then there are satellites, which are also "stealth" in the drum. Okay, stealth plane. He flies fast. They may "not have time to see", but they will see the bark! laughing He, tsuko, is big and drives slowly.
  31. semander
    0
    14 March 2013 23: 01
    The intention is absolutely dnne, but we will see how it turns out. The author is very optimistic about the possibilities of Russian shipbuilding. "... in the next seven years, the country's navy will be replenished with several dozen surface warships, eight missile submarines and 16 multipurpose submarines." Manilovism! "Guarding" was built for 7 years (during the same time the Yankees built 13 Orly Burk, which are 2 times larger and 10 times more complicated).
  32. ixsus
    0
    14 March 2013 23: 33
    that the Mediterranean grouping of Russian ships will consist of a third of the ships of the Black Sea Fleet and 2/3 of the ships of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Federation

    What about 2KBF ships? Not one will not?
    1. +1
      15 March 2013 00: 00
      Yes there is not a lot. Two "Sarich" (one is definitely in reserve). Two patrolmen - "Fearless" and "Yaroslav the Wise", "guarding" well and several large landing ships. All. The rest is RTO and less. "Lada" - a separate conversation + 1 or 2 "Halibut". So think ... what to take from there ...
    2. 0
      15 March 2013 00: 05
      I will add that the "Fearless" went to the shores of Somalia, but then it took a long time to be repaired.
      1. ixsus
        0
        15 March 2013 00: 12
        Thanks. And what about the "Wise"?
        1. +1
          15 March 2013 08: 46
          I also went to Middle-earth, but with the best results for EU. But it was put into operation in 2008 or 2009.
          1. ixsus
            0
            16 March 2013 09: 44
            But it was put into operation in 2008 or 2009.
            He’s new to him and it’s going to go. I mean, to bring 1-2 ships closer from the Baltic, than to pull from KTOF, for example. Or are there few ammunition? I think that the news should be involved, the engineers will have more experience.
            1. +1
              16 March 2013 10: 01
              Closer, but if the squadron is made, then the bezoning point will be in the World Cup. Not so important anymore. Proto BF has only a couple of patrol boats on the move, which can be used there. "Sarychi" has known problems with the power plant. There are more ships in the Pacific Fleet. But only there is also restless. They plan to strengthen it, although rather to support it (if the Orlans are modernized, one will definitely go there, and the long-suffering Mistrals will go there too). So, the Black Sea Fleet and the Northern Fleet can become the main "donors" for the Mediterranean squadron.
              Regarding "novya is, of course, good. But it is not yet particularly for these purposes. Zhdems."
              1. ixsus
                +1
                17 March 2013 07: 33
                About "Sariches" I am a little aware. But there is not much at all in the Baltic ... And KTOF needs to be really strengthened, the Yapks, after the collapse of the USSR, whine about the Kuril Islands. I do not understand the current Th GDP them 2 islands offers in exchange for a peace treaty. Why is it necessary at all. There are relationships, trade is going on. Maybe this is a tactical move. Type 2 yapi will never take, but we will give 4 horseradish. But if we talk like that, then in general our entire Navy needs to be strengthened. And the Mediterranean squadron to create anew, and KKF, and KTOF, and KSF, and KCHF 2KBF. Toka, as many wrote here, should have done this yesterday.
                Thanks for the information.
  33. spok
    +1
    15 March 2013 00: 24
    it turns out that the country doesn’t have a fleet, but what is left will soon be cut into needles
    I am against such a reform
  34. 0
    15 March 2013 10: 00
    I would generally lay 4 pcs. according to the project 68 bis Sverdlov for the Mediterranean, it’s only possible to modernize air defense, the GK innovation equipment would have turned out cheap and cheerful, such a vessel walks near 152 mm AUG and looks exactly at the alleged opponent’s av when the avik has disabled and the bottom, bully
  35. 0
    16 March 2013 13: 34
    In the presence of the Mediterranean flotilla, a strong renewal of the Black Sea is not necessary, as The middle sea locks the Black Sea. Those. in Kiev may break off about permission to modernize the Black Sea Fleet. Plus an additional moral, and not only, impact on ALL Middle-earth (just like in fantasy). There is a base. There is a contract. Defend the base are required. There are still a bunch of all kinds of treaties of the USSR. Lavrov has a lot of work.
    1. ixsus
      0
      17 March 2013 08: 11
      Vasya (2) Yesterday, 13:34

      There are still a bunch of all kinds of treaties of the USSR. Lavrov has a lot of work.

      And you can read more about the contract, about KChF. I read here that it seems that for some reason we can’t increase the number or update the ships. or it is not true.
      1. 0
        18 March 2013 23: 40
        Here is a link to the section agreement.
        http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=INT;n=2248
        Explore! Even the "Commune" was not forgotten there in 1915. Until now, it seems, goes