English ancestors of Soviet torpedo boats

46
English ancestors of Soviet torpedo boats
The first torpedo boat? Almost...


According to the criterion of having an internal combustion engine, the first torpedo boat can be considered the "Lewis Nixon torpedo boat". In 35, the American company "Flint" offered these 1904-ton boats to Russia, which was waging war in the Far East. Russian admirals did not hesitate for a minute - the ships were needed "here and now", and in the spring of 1905, the company sent ten torpedo boats to the Empire.



These were ships with a displacement of 35 tons, with a wooden hull. Two "gasoline engines" with a capacity of 300 horsepower were capable of accelerating the ships, armed with one rotating torpedo tube of 450 mm caliber and two machine guns, to a quite decent speed of 20 knots at that time. The sailors were especially pleased with the absence of smoke - the stealth of Nixon's torpedo boats was significantly higher than that of their steam counterparts. In fact, they differed from classic torpedo boats only in the rotating torpedo tube, located behind the wheelhouse, in the middle of the hull.

Since the boats arrived in Sevastopol in the spring of 1905, they did not manage to reach Vladivostok before the end of the war. The "gazolinkas" served for a long time, but... not for their intended purpose! In 1918, the boats were mothballed, in 1937 they were brought back to life, but as small submarine hunters. Some were used as transport vessels as late as the 50s.

The "theme" itself was not continued. The problem was not in the "gasoline", but in the obsolescence of the torpedo boat class itself - they were replaced by larger, seaworthy and better armed torpedo boats. They received a second life during the First World War under the name "torpedo boats". The reasons for the emergence of a new-old class of ships are divided into military and technical. The first is the fact that combat operations largely moved to shallow waters: to the Adriatic, the English Channel and the French coast. Plus - very dense mining: boats with a draft of a meter could operate in minefields, but anything larger - no longer.

And to the second... The torpedo became much more formidable by the beginning of the First World War weapons, than it was back in the Russo-Japanese War. Steam-gas power plants allowed them to increase their speed from 26-32 knots to 40-42, cruising range from 1-2 to 6-8 kilometers, the mass of the explosive charge increased from 80-90 kg to 110-130 kg, and pyroxylin replaced the much more powerful hexogen or TNT. It was already much more difficult to evade such a "fish", and survival after its hit became much more problematic.

In addition, step-up gliders appeared - high-speed boats with internal combustion engines. The idea of ​​step-up boats was put forward in the 70s of the XIX century, and the first glider was built by the French engineer Charles d'Alembert in 1897. But the production of the best racing gliders in the world was launched by the English company "Thornycroft". It was they who were entrusted with the creation of a torpedo boat...

By 1915, German submarines had become a serious threat to British shipping, but finding and destroying them at sea seemed more difficult and expensive to British admirals than raiding a base and sinking dozens of submarines at a time. The problem was that the approaches to the submarine bases were heavily mined, and the nearby waters were controlled by shore batteries. The solution was suggested by young officers Bremner, Hampden and Anson: an attack with torpedo boats!


Miranda-4 racing glider - the prototype of the English torpedo boats

Having received an order for "coastal motor boats" (CMB), John Thornycroft decided to use as a model his own step-up glider "Miranda-4", which developed a speed of 35 knots. Perhaps that is why his shipyard produced not just torpedo boats with a wooden hull, but torpedo boats with a hull made of mahogany - the expensive kind!


40ft Torpedo Boat by Thornycroft

The first batch were the "40-foot" CMBs. These were small boats with a displacement of only 5 tons! An engine with a capacity of 250-275 horsepower accelerated them to a speed of 30 knots with a full load. Of course, with such a displacement, this load could not be large: at the stern of the boat in a tray lay one 456-mm torpedo. The launch was carried out with the help of a piston, which, under the action of a charge of two kilograms of black powder, pushed the torpedo behind the stern with the screws forward. After which the boat commander had to sharply turn away, so as not to get his own "fish" in the stern. In addition to the torpedo, the boat had a twin 7,62 mm machine gun. The crew of the boat consisted of 4-5 people. Seaworthiness... The words "so-so" would be quite appropriate to describe it: the boat's crew worked wet from head to toe - the boat was often hidden behind a curtain of water raised by itself. The Admiralty's first order was for 12 boats, but soon the order was expanded, and a total of 39 40-foot SMVs were in service with the Royal Navy.

The size of the 40-foot boats was not chosen by chance: it was believed that they could be placed on cruisers' davits and thus have a range limited by the range of the carrier. But Thornycroft understood that one torpedo for a boat is not much, but the main thing is that poor seaworthiness significantly reduces its combat value. It was impossible to lift it with the given displacement, so he decided to build an enlarged model.

It should be said that by this time the 40-foot SMVs had already received their baptism of fire. On April 8, 1917, German destroyers shelled Dunkirk. Since the port facilities had been heavily damaged by previous shelling, only torpedo boats were able to engage the enemy ships. Four SMVs left the harbor and attacked the German destroyers, sinking one and damaging two more.


55ft CMV from Thornycroft

Thorneycroft decided that a torpedo boat did not necessarily need to be able to rise on davits - it could be used from a base, successfully protecting its own coast from enemy ships. And that meant it was possible to design seaworthy boats! And so the 55-foot SMB appeared. They had a displacement of 11 tons, 2 gasoline engines of 375-450 horsepower each gave a speed of 40-42 knots, but most importantly, two 456 mm torpedoes were stored in troughs at the stern. The hull, still made of mahogany, had a convex deck, which significantly improved its aerodynamic characteristics. However, Thorneycroft never managed to achieve acceptable seaworthiness...


English "yachts" in Terryock

The 55-foot SMV was designed to combat the German fleet, but its first serious victims were Soviet ships. In May 1919, a detachment of seven 55-foot and one 40-foot boats arrived in the Finnish port of Terryoki (Zelenogorsk), the former base of the Imperial Yacht Club, in an atmosphere of strict secrecy. The crews arrived in civilian clothes and pretended to be yachtsmen and racers. During the first few weeks in Finland, the British carried out 13 reconnaissance raids, and then... In June, the White Guards rebelled at the Kronstadt forts of Krasnaya Gorka and Seraya Loshad, and the Red Baltic Fleet went out to shell the rebellious forts. The British decided to attack.


The armored cruiser "Oleg" is the first victim of the English "yachtsmen"

The target of the attack was the battleship Petropavlovsk, but the Baltic sailors were no pushovers — the battleship was constantly changing its location, and the English scouts were unable to track the ship. The first attempt at an attack failed due to a broken propeller on the 40-foot boat. Therefore, on June 16, 1919, one 55-foot boat — SMV-4 of Lieutenant A. Egar — was sent out on reconnaissance. Near the Tolbukhin lighthouse, the boat's commander spotted the armored cruiser Oleg and decided that a titmouse (Oleg) in the hand was worth two in the bush, after which he attacked. SMV-4 managed to pass by the escort ships unnoticed and fired a torpedo from a distance of 2,5-3 cables into the left side of the cruiser. The explosion occurred in the boiler room area, and the Oleg sank 12 minutes after the torpedo hit.

The most interesting thing is that the boat was spotted by the upper watch (15-20 seconds after the torpedo was launched), but was mistaken for the submarine's conning tower. In principle, this situation can be considered standard: in the dark, torpedo boats were regularly mistaken for submarines or airplanes (the engines sound similar!). The successful attack by the Oleg became a pretext for the British to organize a raid on the Kronstadt roadstead and an attack on the Red Navy ships stationed there. I will immediately note that the descriptions of subsequent events by various participants (including the British side) look different, but this is normal: in the heat of battle, everyone remembers their own, it would be strange if they were completely identical.


The diagram of the British SMV raid on Kronstadt, made from a photo taken from a British seaplane

At dawn on August 18, 1919, seven 55-foot torpedo boats, one 40-foot torpedo boat and eight seaplanes from the Vinidiktive aircraft carrier attacked the Kronstadt roadstead. It must be said that the British had prepared thoroughly: throughout July, the British seaplanes not only bombed Kronstadt, but also conducted reconnaissance. Photographs of the Kronstadt harbor were taken, and targets were identified: the battleships Andrei Pervozvanny and Petropavlovsk, the heavy cruiser Rurik and the submarine base Pamyat Azova. However, the attacks were only from the air, so all the attention of the Baltic sailors was diverted to repelling air raids, and they missed the torpedo boats, mistaking the sound of their engines for airplane engines.


The "Memory of Azov" sunk during the Kronstadt reveille

The bombing began at 3:45. An air raid alert was immediately sounded on the Baltic Fleet ships, while the torpedo boats were already approaching the entrance to the roadstead. One boat under the command of Egar was left on the outer roadstead, and the rest of Claude Dobson's detachment entered the harbor in a wedge formation.

We must give credit to the training of the "brothers", at 4:20 the boats were discovered by the destroyer "Gavriil": it was attacked by one of the boats, but the torpedo missed, the destroyer sank the boat with return fire. Three boats broke through to the inner harbor, their machine guns poured water on the decks of the ships moored there, causing panic among the crews that had been suddenly attacked.

Lieutenant Bremner's SMV-79 managed to torpedo a submarine base, the old armored cruiser Pamyat Azova. Lieutenant McBean's SMV-31 launched two torpedoes at the battleship Andrei Pervozvanny, after which it fled, but came under fire from the Kronstadt forts and was damaged.

SMV-88 was illuminated by a searchlight and machine-gunned, killing its commander, Lieutenant Dagnel-Reed, and two sailors. Lieutenant Gordon Steele, who took command, managed to launch both torpedoes on his own and, according to him, hit the Andrei Pervozvanny and Petropavlovsk.

Lieutenant Bodley's SMV-72 was unable to fire a torpedo at the dry dock, but took Dobson's damaged boat (according to other sources, Lieutenant Howard's SMV-86) in tow and took it out from under fire (the boat had to be blown up in the outer roadstead).

Lieutenant Braid's SMV-62 collided with Bremner's boat at the entrance to the harbor, which had just attacked Russian ships, as a result of which two sailors died on it, and SMV-79 began to sink. The boat, commanded by the restless Lieutenant Bremner, tried to attack the Gavriil with torpedoes, but missed. But the destroyer's gunners did not, and the boat was sunk, Braid died, and the wounded Bremner was captured.

The seventh boat launched torpedoes "into that steppe" and left the harbor. At 4:35 the battle, which had lasted a quarter of an hour, was over.


The location of the hole on the battleship Andrey Pervozvanny

The results of the "Kronstadt reveille" were mixed. The British lost six boats out of eight: three were destroyed by fire from the destroyer "Gavriil", one sank after being rammed, and two more had their engines catch fire while retreating (most likely damaged by fire, like on Dobson's boat) and had to be blown up. Losses were 75 percent! But... The Red Navy had to pay for the six destroyed boats by sinking the cruiser "Pamiat Azova" (yes, it was old, but for the Red Navy at that time any floating pyrotechnic craft was worth its weight in gold) and damaging the "Andrei Pervozvanny" - one of the most powerful ships of the Baltic Fleet (the British reported that they had hit the "Petropavlovsk" as well, but according to Soviet documents, the battleship was not hit).


SMV-62, sunk by the destroyer Gavriil and raised on September 13, 1919

And one of the sunken boats was raised and carefully studied by naval specialists. After that, at the request of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Baltic Fleet, work began on creating our own torpedo boats. Moreover, the "Kronstadt Wake-up Call" played a negative role in the development of the USSR Navy: torpedo boats were greatly overestimated, and in the 30s the Soviet fleet began to develop... unbalanced, with a large bias towards boats.
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  1. +5
    12 November 2024 05: 10
    A good compilation of well-known works. There are no obvious blunders in the article, but polite people, when publishing something like this, usually place a list of original literature at the end of the article. Sources of inspiration, so to speak.
    1. +8
      12 November 2024 08: 27
      Hmm... I'm certainly not young, but not old enough to remember "Kronstadt Reveille". Of course I wrote from sources! About the list of references... This is not a scientific work, but journalism - a genre that does not require the obligatory publication of a list of references.
  2. +5
    12 November 2024 05: 16
    Moreover, the "Kronstadt wake-up call" played a negative role in the development of the USSR Navy: torpedo boats were greatly overestimated, and in the 30s the Soviet fleet began to develop... unbalanced, with a large bias towards boats.

    What? Were there any other options in those conditions? If we talk about the negative impact, it was expressed in the excessive passion for speed and, accordingly, the passion for building aluminum gliders, which are not very seaworthy and very troublesome to operate.
    In addition, Gavriil's excellent, simply magnificent shooting showed that speed and maneuverability are not a panacea; stealth is more important, and this is where boats with stern trough TAs were not doing very well.
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 08: 36
      There are always options. The same G-5 prototype was designed in 1928, if I'm not mistaken, and was mass-produced in the 30s. By that time, there was, purely as a thought experiment, a choice: for example, to go down the path of building monitors like the Finnish ones. It's hard to say what would have been more useful in the Baltic - swarms of "mosquitoes" or several monitors... As for the passion for speed at the expense of everything else - I'm all for it! Building something like the same "schnellbots" would definitely have been more useful...
      1. +3
        12 November 2024 09: 10
        Well, I think they got a bit carried away with the G-5, and ended up with a very controversial device! A boat that is difficult to use for its intended purpose (after all, the groove launch is an anachronism, even at that time, and considering the same MZA, on ships, I want to call the one who ordered these boats for the navy a saboteur), and as a transport, it is very problematic!
      2. +3
        12 November 2024 15: 02
        Quote: Flying_Dutchman
        By that time, there was, purely as a thought experiment, a choice: for example, to go down the path of building monitors in the manner of the Finnish ones.

        Ahem... are we talking about the construction of monitors by the same industry that until the end of the 30s was unable to even increase the vertical aiming angles of the already existing iron Sevastopol turrets? The Poltava turrets went to battery #981 with the original elevation angles - 25 degrees maximum, so to increase the range they had to get creative with lighter shells.
        How will we arm the MN? MK-1-180?
        If we take the design and construction of ships based on domestic projects, we can recall the quiet horror during the tests of the LD Leningrad, after which the LD was accepted by the fleet and placed at the factory's outfitting wall for three years to eliminate the identified deficiencies.
        Quote: Flying_Dutchman
        Building something like the same “schnellbots” would definitely be more useful...

        Where to get engines? Domestic TKA designers can only rely on serial aircraft engines.
        1. +2
          12 November 2024 19: 55
          Well, instead of two AM-34s, three could have been installed, but that's not the point: until 1933, we had very close military cooperation with Weimar Germany, as far as I remember (I could be wrong here), "Lürsen" was throwing out a bait to sell a license for "schnellbots", I think, licensed production of them would have been quite feasible. At the same time, they would have learned to make "Daimler" engines under license...
          1. +1
            13 November 2024 11: 00
            Quote: Flying_Dutchman
            "Lürsen" was throwing out a bait to sell a license for "schnellbots", I think they could easily handle licensed production of them. At the same time, they would learn to make "Daimler" engines under license...

            I would rather believe in the refinement of Charomsky's aviation diesel engines. smile
      3. 0
        12 November 2024 20: 52
        There were more seaworthy originals from the Elko company, but they ran into "flaps".
  3. +2
    12 November 2024 06: 09
    Here is described the development of boats for firing torpedoes, and now in our time it turns out to be the development of torpedoes to boats, controlled remotely. BEKs. The development of the fleet and aviation goes to unmanned combat vehicles. soldier
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 11: 09
      Quote: V.
      The development of the fleet and aviation is moving towards unmanned combat vehicles. soldier

      You will probably be surprised, but the Soviet Navy went through this stage in the late 30s - early 40s. By the way, radio-controlled "unmanned" ships, based on the G-5, even took part in the beginning of the Great Patriotic War. After which the radio control equipment was dismantled from them and they were equipped with regular crews. How can one not remember that "history develops in a spiral"
      1. +2
        12 November 2024 15: 06
        Quote: Ermak_Timofeich
        By the way, radio-controlled "unmanned vehicles" based on the G-5 even took part in the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.

        Where did you manage to do it?
        At the Baltic Fleet, the wave control boats stood at the berths until the order arrived to dismantle the receiving equipment of the VU system and return the boats to normal control. The reason is simple - the carriers of the transmitting equipment of the system were "barns", which were a flying target even for the "Arado". The harmonious theory of remote control of the TKA was broken by the problem of the need to gain air superiority in operations using the TKA VU.
        1. 0
          12 November 2024 15: 14
          Where did you manage to do it?

          In the Black Sea Fleet, in 1943. All cases of use were unsuccessful due to problems with control aircraft.
          I won't paste the text, it's voluminous. I'll give you a link:
          https://tech.wikireading.ru/4

          P.S. And you are writing about the Baltics...
          1. +2
            12 November 2024 16: 37
            Quote: Ermak_Timofeich
            In the Black Sea Fleet, in 1943. All cases of use were unsuccessful due to problems with control aircraft.
            I won't paste the text, it's voluminous. I'll give you a link:

            Thank you.
            Very reminiscent of attempts to use remotely controlled aircraft in 1942. Before the war, everything worked. In a combat situation, it was the only operation that ended in failure due to loss of control.
      2. +1
        12 November 2024 20: 18
        Yes, Bekauri was a great specialist in this matter, but... a competitor of Tupolev. That's where he got burned.
  4. +2
    12 November 2024 06: 47
    Thanks for the article, Gerhard!
    Of course, against a poorly guarded base, the attack was 50% successful. One of the active battleships of the Dota was disabled. But the conclusions drawn from this attack are much more interesting.
    It turned out that it is better to attack ships at the base either with torpedoes from aircraft (higher speed) or with ultra-small submarines (higher stealth).
    The British put all this into practice. On November 11.11.1940, 22.09.1943, they attacked the main forces of the Italian fleet in Taranto, and on September XNUMX, XNUMX, the Tirpitz was attacked by British Midgets. However, there was plenty of work for high-speed boats, including torpedo boats, in this war.
    1. +3
      12 November 2024 08: 20
      Good morning! Torpedo boats of all countries had plenty of work in World War II, but they mostly worked for purposes other than their primary purpose. Reconnaissance, landing of troops (and saboteurs), fighting submarines... The same Soviet boatmen sank little (compared to the number of boats built), but they brought a lot of benefit precisely by performing tasks that were not theirs.
    2. +2
      12 November 2024 15: 19
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      It turned out that it is better to attack ships at the base either with torpedoes from aircraft (higher speed) or with ultra-small submarines (higher stealth).
      The English brought all this to life.

      It's better not to take the British as an example - these monsters flew things that shouldn't fly, and attacked where there was practically no chance. For example, the crew of the Beaufort under Captain Kenneth Campbell attacked the Gneisenau alone right in the Brest harbor, managing to drop a torpedo that sent the battleship for repairs seconds before it was destroyed.

      If we take them as an example, it turns out that the most successful attack on ships at the base was carried out by horizontal bombers with super-heavy bombs used in an unconventional manner (a camouflage bomb as an armor-piercing bomb). smile
  5. +2
    12 November 2024 09: 23
    A good article about little-known events. I remember that in the Naval Museum, when it was located in the Stock Exchange building, the wreckage of one of the British boats was on display. Whether they are on display in the current museum, I don't know, there are many things missing there.
    1. 0
      12 November 2024 09: 30
      I was a schoolboy in the old one, and I haven't been to the new one at all. I'll have to visit...
    2. +3
      12 November 2024 11: 14
      Quote: belost79
      I don’t know if they are presented in the current museum; there are a lot of things missing there.

      In 2015 they were in the former Kryukov barracks. Now - I don't know.
  6. +3
    12 November 2024 09: 40
    For the six destroyed boats, the Red Navy had to pay with the sunken cruiser Pamyat Azova (yes, it was old, but for the Red Navy at that time any floating pyrotechnic vessel was worth its weight in gold) and the damaged Andrey Pervozvanny, one of the most powerful ships of the Baltic Fleet (the British reported that they had hit Petropavlovsk, but according to Soviet documents, the battleship was not hit).
    .
    With all due respect, I disagree with the Author.
    1. The memory of Azov as a combat unit as a cruiser was insignificant, for almost the entire First World War it was used as a stationary base for submarines of the Baltic Fleet. The last time it went to sea independently was in 1911.
    2. Andrey Pervozvanny (called by the author a "predrendout" instead of the established in Russian literature - "dodrendout") definitely did not survive the cutting up for metal in Germany. Its relevance died with the appearance of "superdrendouts" back in 1915. The normal caliber of battleships had already reached 15-16 inches in the Baden, Queen Elizabeth and Izmail series. The number of main caliber guns reached 9-12 units (in exceptional cases even 14).
    Domestic Ganguts with 12-inch guns were actually the firstborn of our fleet and met the realities of 1910-1914.
    Andrew the First-Called became obsolete even on the stocks.
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 20: 26
      Well, the DOT even included the Aurora, whose value was not great already in 1905, so the Pamyat Azova was also of some value at that time. As for the Andrei Pervozvanny, it was really the second most powerful ship of the Baltic Fleet. Not because it was good, but because the only other ship in service was the Petropavlovsk. The Gangut, I think, I don't remember exactly, was already mothballed by that time, the Poltava had burned down, the Grazhdanin-Tsesarevich was older than the Andrei Pervozvanny...
  7. +1
    12 November 2024 09: 46
    . And one of the sunken boats was raised and carefully studied by naval specialists. After that, at the request of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Baltic Fleet, work began on creating our own torpedo boats.
    .
    Tupolev used only the groove type of torpedo tube from English developments. The float of a seaplane was taken for the hull shape of the ANT-Pervinets. The design was made of chainmail (duralumin). The first Soviet wooden torpedo boats D-2 (later D-3) were replicas of the Italians, not the English.
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 15: 05
      The first Soviet wooden torpedo boats D-2 (later D-3) were replicas of the Italians, not the British.

      Tupolev had nothing to do with the development of these torpedo boats. The D-2 torpedo boats were not the first Soviet wooden ones. The first were the DTK, which was a G-5 in a "wooden version".
      Tupolev used only the groove type of torpedo tube from English developments. The float of a seaplane was taken for the hull shape of the ANT-Pervinets.

      Tupolev's diploma work was called "Calculation of a hydroplane". Therefore, all his gliders and boats, starting with the ANT-1, launched in 1921, had the shape of a float. And also the step-like projections, like those of British torpedo boats.
    2. 0
      12 November 2024 20: 15
      Well, why are you so critical... The Soviet Russian Republic had NO experience in building TCs, in the word ABSOLUTELY!!! So they learned from someone else's (according to Bismarck). But now the descendants: Project 1241re missile boat "Molniya", Project 22800 small missile ship "Karakurt" - Is this not enough for you???
    3. +1
      12 November 2024 20: 28
      I agree, but that's not what I'm talking about: after the Kronstadt wake-up call, the "torpedo boat" class itself was re-evaluated, as a whole. If it hadn't happened, I think they would have been built in much smaller quantities...
  8. 0
    12 November 2024 09: 56
    In fact, the only thing that distinguished them from classic torpedo boats was the rotating torpedo tube, located behind the wheelhouse, in the middle of the hull.

    The difference between torpedo boats was in displacement and engine (the first were smaller and with an internal combustion engine), the second were larger and with a steam engine. It is reasonable to compare torpedo boats of the first series with mine boats, then there is only one difference - the engine! By the way, if not for the revolution of 1917, torpedo boats would have remained mine boats. However, the process of "building up fat" in military boats and ships is still taking place today. See the squadron destroyer - Rezvy of 1903 with 450 tons and the modern "Iron" with 12000 tons.
    1. +1
      12 November 2024 22: 25
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      See the squadron destroyer - Rezvy of 1903, 450 tons, and the modern Utyug of 12000 tons.

      Modern destroyers are not torpedo boats, they are destroyers. And if you compare them with Rezvy, they are some kind of corvette.
  9. -2
    12 November 2024 10: 22
    During the Great Patriotic War, the city of Sosnovka in the Kirov region began producing such boats for the Baltic Fleet. They reaped a good harvest.
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 20: 32
      Yes, but this speaks about the merits of the crews, not the equipment. The Germans had a more abundant harvest on the "schnellboats" (however, this does not mean anything: the Germans fought against the British, who had something to sink, and we fought against the Germans, who did not have a special fleet in the Black Sea Fleet, Baltic Fleet and Northern Fleet (battleships went to the North a couple of times, but there was no way to reach their routes with boats).
  10. 0
    12 November 2024 13: 42
    Quote: belost79
    A good article about little-known events.

    ????? What do you mean, little-known? For whom?!
  11. -1
    12 November 2024 13: 44
    Quote: Flying_Dutchman
    a genre that does not require mandatory publication of a list of references.

    What about self-respect?
    1. +2
      12 November 2024 20: 43
      If I write a dissertation, I will certainly attach a list of references, but for now there are no such plans. I repeat, this is not a scientific work. And this is not a peer-reviewed journal, like "Izvestiya Rossiyskoy Akademii Nauk" for publication in which you can receive an academic title.
  12. 0
    12 November 2024 13: 51
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Tupolev used only the groove type of torpedo tube from English developments. The float of a seaplane was taken for the hull shape of the ANT-Pervinets. The design was made of chainmail (duralumin). The first Soviet wooden torpedo boats D-2 (later D-3) were replicas of the Italians, not the English.

    Andrey Nikolayevich took hydrodynamics from the Naglichs, redan. The material of the hull is a secondary thing. Tupolev never built wooden planes and had no experience working with wood. And there was a shortage of mahogany in the USSR.
    The D series boats differed not only in the material of their hulls, but also in their hydrodynamics.
    I won’t take it upon myself to say who it was ripped off from, or whether it was ripped off at all. Russia had its own, very good school of hydrodynamics.
    By the way, it wasn't that simple with wood either. I can't vouch for the exact figures, but if I'm wrong, it's not by an order of magnitude. There were either fifty or seventy grading officers in the country who were capable of assessing (that's what they call it, I think) timber suitable for aircraft construction.
  13. +2
    12 November 2024 13: 52
    Quote: Fakapych
    During the Great Patriotic War, the city of Sosnovka in the Kirov region began producing such boats for the Baltic Fleet. They reaped a good harvest.

    In this same, very successful, building, small hunters were built.
  14. +2
    12 November 2024 14: 48
    The size of the 40-foot boats was not chosen by chance: it was believed that they could be placed on the davits of cruisers and thus have a range limited by the range of the carrier.

    It turns out that from a tactical point of view, the first generation of CMB-type mine-laying craft is an evolution of the standard 40-foot mine-laying boats in terms of increased speed.
    Moreover, the "Kronstadt wake-up call" played a negative role in the development of the USSR Navy: torpedo boats were greatly overestimated, and in the 30s the Soviet fleet began to develop... unbalanced, with a large bias towards boats.

    Here, it is more likely not a naval issue, but an industrial one. The development of the fleet in the early 30s was forced to balance between military considerations ("necessary! fast! a lot! yesterday!") and the capabilities of the shipbuilding industry (they barely built the SCF, and the battleship modernization was carried out with difficulty according to the minimum scheme). Plus the problem with inter-theater maneuvers and shipbuilding in the Far East, which resulted in requirements for fitting into the railway clearance.
    So, in the late 20s - early 30s, the Navy could only receive base defense forces - a TKA for an aircraft engine and mobile underwater TA, that is, submarines of the "M" type.
  15. BAI
    +2
    12 November 2024 19: 06
    damaged "Andrey Pervozvanny" - one of the most powerful ships of the Baltic Fleet

    An obsolete battleship, although it was built in 1912. No comparison with Gangut and Petropavlovsk (later October Revolution and Marat, respectively)
    1. +1
      12 November 2024 20: 47
      By that time, if I'm not mistaken, "Gangut" was mothballed, and "Andrey Pervozvanny" was the second most powerful ship of the Baltic Fleet, after "Petropavlovsk" (which was the main target of the British, but it didn't work out).
  16. -1
    12 November 2024 20: 07
    All of the above is, of course, logical. But remember at least Alexander Osipovich Shabalin, (November 4, 1914 - January 16, 1982) - Soviet naval figure, rear admiral, twice Hero of the Soviet Union. Northern Fleet, torpedo boats, etc. They fight not with numbers, but with skill!!!
  17. 0
    12 November 2024 20: 45
    Quote: Flying_Dutchman
    If I write a dissertation, I will certainly attach a list of references, but for now there are no such plans. I repeat, this is not a scientific work. And this is not a peer-reviewed journal, like "Izvestiya Rossiyskoy Akademii Nauk" for publication in which you can receive an academic title.

    You haven't answered my question. Let me repeat it: What about self-respect? It seems that this feeling is unfamiliar to you.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  18. 0
    12 November 2024 20: 47
    Quote: BAI
    damaged "Andrey Pervozvanny" - one of the most powerful ships of the Baltic Fleet

    An obsolete battleship, although it was built in 1912. No comparison with Gangut and Petropavlovsk (later October Revolution and Marat, respectively)

    Nevertheless, the ship was quite combat-ready, had strong armament and excellent armor for the circumstances of its use.
  19. 0
    12 November 2024 21: 14
    Calm down the pipe to the end,
    He smiled calmly from his face.

    "Team, to the front! Officers, go!"
    The commander walks dryly.

    And the words are equal in full height:
    "Anchoring at eight.

    At whom the wife, the brother -
    Write, we will not come back.

    But there will be a noble bowling alley. "
    And the eldest in response: "Yes, captain!"

    And the most daring and young
    I looked at the sun over the water.

    “Does it matter,” he said, “where?
    It's even easier to lie in the water. "

    Admiral's ears caught the dawn:
    "The order is executed, there are no rescued".

    Nails would be made from these people:
    Harder would not have been in the world of nails.
    N.S. Tikhonov

    https://pikabu.ru/story/gvozdi_byi_delat_iz_vas_6510040
  20. 0
    12 November 2024 21: 41
    They were building mosquito boats, but what was needed were BDBs, raumbots and S-type torpedo boats...
    1. +1
      13 November 2024 11: 06
      Quote: Shtat
      They were building mosquito boats, but what was needed were BDBs, raumbots and S-type torpedo boats...

      For which engines and fuel were needed.
      Here you are, comrade designers, GAM-34. Now invent a coastal fleet for it.
  21. +1
    14 November 2024 04: 27
    two torpedoes at the battleship (predreadnought) "Andrei Pervozvanny"

    Still, pre-dreadnoughts would be more correct