European Auto Industry: Where Are You Heading?

105
European Auto Industry: Where Are You Heading?


Scandalous talents


The European automobile industry's lurches are interesting, first of all, as an example of the "foresight" of the Old World's officials. The planning horizon for most of them does not exceed three to five years, and tasks are set based on immediate challenges.



It is worth noting right away that the analysis of the latest events in the European automobile market in no way attempts to shade the situation in the domestic auto industry. As is known, the events of recent years have seriously undermined Russian auto plants, and the government is frantically trying to save domestic production by increasing the recycling fee. Together with the increase in the loan rate, this turns any modern car in Russia into an unaffordable luxury.

Evil tongues claim that the gradual increase in the recycling fee by 2030 will turn cars into cast-iron bridges in terms of cost. However, even now the cost of a well-equipped Lada Vesta is well over a couple of million rubles. But the conversation now is not about the intricacies of domestic automobile production, but about the founders of the world automobile industry, that is, the Europeans, who are going somewhere wrong. You can be happy about this, you can be upset, but you can’t ignore the phenomenon.


It all started when Europe decided to make another technological revolution and impose new standards on the entire world. Of course, the competence centers had to remain in the Old World – otherwise there was no point in it. The focus was on total electric mobility of transport in Europe by 2035. Everything was dressed up in fashionable concern for nature – electric passenger cars were supposed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 12 percent at once.

Plans to abandon internal combustion engines became known in 2021, and two years later, a new zero-emission standard was adopted in the European Parliament. At the same time, legislators did not ban internal combustion engines directly, but only required a 100% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from cars and trucks sold in Europe.

Large and highly respected brands have begun vying with each other to announce an early transition to electric traction - for example, Volvo has promised to abandon carbon dioxide in its exhaust by 2030. By the way, Volvo Cars can only be called Swedish conditionally - the company has long been under the Chinese Geely. But about the role of China in stories a little later, but for now let's concentrate on European difficulties.

Of course, European officials did not think about any environmental well-being. The only reason for such strict requirements for cars was an attempt to impose their own technological standards. Europe traditionally exports a lot of equipment, and foreign buyers will reluctantly have to put up with the "bonuses" of electric transport - short autonomy, short-lived batteries and low cost on the secondary market. At the same time, suppliers of equipment to the European market will be forced to adapt to the fantastic requirements of the European Union. At this time, engineers will develop new charging standards, batteries and other jewelry, without which electric cars are unthinkable. And they will sell them to backward natives all over the world, as was the case during the conquest.

The Germans were the first to give in. More precisely, they were forced by the difficult situation provoked by anti-Russian sanctions, and there was no money to subsidize the purchase of electric cars. The calculating Germans immediately collapsed sales of "electric cars", and with them the plans of car manufacturers. It turned out that only very rich countries, such as Norway, can afford the electrification of personal transport. Here in Scandinavia, almost 100 percent of passenger transport is already electric exclusively due to subsidies. The irony is that Norway earns money for such luxury precisely by exporting hydrocarbons.

China, your turn!


European industry, primarily German, in recent times was built around cheap energy from Russia. With a high standard of living for workers and, accordingly, rather high salaries, inexpensive gas from Nord Stream and oil from Druzhba allowed saving on production costs. In prosperous times, the cost of blue fuel was four to five times lower, and electricity - two to three times. But luxury ended, and with it the era of high margins from the sale of German equipment.

Volkswagen was the first to cry out and announced the upcoming closure of three car factories at once, something that has not happened for 87 years in a row. Tens of thousands of workers will end up on the street, and the state does not have much money to pay benefits. It is very likely that the story will not end with Volkswagen. Hildegard Müller, head of the German Automobile Industry Association, complains:

"Our energy costs are too high. Our bureaucracy costs are too high. Our labor costs are too high. Our energy prices are three times higher than in other places, like the United States."
.
To be fair, the German concern was forced to tighten its belts not only by energy prices, but also by the thoughtless policies of its management. At a certain point, managers decided that the future belonged to electric cars and simply abandoned programs with internal combustion engines.

The Chinese also distinguished themselves by offering electric cars at a cost price one third lower than the European ones. The consumer qualities of modern electric cars from the Celestial Empire are no worse, and in some cases are head and shoulders above the most famous brands from the European Union.

As a result, not only Volkswagen, but also Renault and the French-Italian-American Stellantis suffered. It is not for nothing that the bosses of European metallurgical concerns are nervous - a decrease in car production will drag related industries into crisis. It was calculated that in Germany alone, the transition to electric cars by 2035 will reduce up to 150 thousand jobs. And this is only in the auto industry. The total losses could approach 200 thousand.


At that time, China began literally to flood Europe and America with its electric cars. The PRC not only threatened to provide each of the "golden billion" with their own environmentally friendly transport, but also to completely shut down the local auto industry.

What to do in such a situation? The same thing that Russia is doing now - raising import prices. Only the government is not directly targeting Chinese equipment, but is limiting the import of any cars, hoping for localization of assembly within Russia.

American restrictions effectively prohibit the sale of cars made in China. The reasons seem naively simple - the United States fears total surveillance using lidars and radars, as well as through the software of Chinese cars. They say that after some time Beijing will receive at its disposal a very detailed map of North America, including classified objects.

In Europe, the situation is softer for now, but still impressive – import duties on some electric cars from China reach 45,3 percent. Interestingly, these restrictions, which came into force at the end of October, became a subject of bargaining. Beijing was offered to refuse support for Russia in exchange for fair market conditions. The negotiations were unsuccessful.

China is now introducing retaliatory restrictions on the supply of certain types of food and alcohol from Europe. But that's not all. The government does not recommend its businessmen to invest in those countries that have introduced high duties. Against this background, China's claim to the World Trade Organization demanding that the duties be lifted seems like a formality. No one will side with Beijing, but the regulations must be observed.

China has not yet responded in kind to Europe, but automakers have already felt the negative consequences. In the first nine months of 2024, BMW sales fell by a third, Mercedes-Benz reduced volumes by 10%, Aston Martin halved production, and Porsche by 29%.

This is only the beginning – many concerns may leave the Chinese market after the introduction of retaliatory measures. At the same time, it is the Chinese market that has supported European automobile companies over the past decades. For China, the decline in sales of European cars and customs restrictions will not be catastrophic. All thanks to the huge domestic market – the level of motorization in China is significantly lower than in Russia: 231 cars per thousand inhabitants versus 361 in Russia. Thus, Chinese manufacturers can count on several years of rapid growth.

Even in the most optimistic scenario, the European auto industry is threatened by stagnation, in the most pessimistic scenario – by slow drying out. Munich may well repeat the fate of the American Detroit.

Russia benefits from everything that is happening. China's trade wars with Europe and America are forcing Beijing to look at the Russian market in a special way. It is not possible to earn much there, but when it comes to counting pennies, our consumers will not be among the last. You never know, China will decide to invest in assembling its cars in Russia. Which is what our government is actually trying to achieve. Therefore, dear Europeans and Americans, continue to break peaks with China - it is definitely worth it.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +14
    8 November 2024 04: 52
    It is clear that at the beginning of the article there is a request not to mirror our reality... but how can one not restrain oneself here, realizing that a car is becoming a luxury... is it a joke that a new Niva costs 1.5 million, Vesta has gone for 2.5 million, the unfortunate Bukhanka costs 1.8... and so on down the list... Spare parts, oils... let's not even mention imported cars... the same Polo costs 3 million... the price of an apartment... although with such a mortgage, how much can they pull at 24 million per annum???
  3. +13
    8 November 2024 05: 02
    Well, it seems like everything is interesting and positive, but we are somewhere lying in a long knockout outside the ring. Here you need to look at what the average motorist wants, and he wants an affordable car, reliable, in which he will not invest one tenth of its cost every year, and more or less comfortable, safe and practical, the rest is just banal show-off. Can the world's automakers make such a car? Of course they can, but in fact the industry has driven itself into a crisis, having fun with sizes, shapes, and content, and jokes from the cycle: Let's screw a monitor here too. And really, when you get into a huge crossover, you don't understand why you have less space in the car than in a small-capacity 20-year-old Japanese car, and we are not discussing the technology itself, but all sorts of frills. But with technology, everything is sad, when a unit is developed, for example, exactly for 60 thousand km, and that's it, it requires replacement, and all car manufacturers are guilty of this, they don't make cars now, they make things that require something like a subscription. That is, the warranty has expired, and it begins to slowly demand money, you disassemble the units, everything is fine, but some part made of thin metal broke, or a gasket made of incomprehensible rubber, although if you make these parts normal, you can get a very durable mechanism, but this is business, nothing personal. Well, our smart auto industry understood how it works, it seems, earlier than everyone else, but here they have already achieved perfection, and now for a long time already at a new level, they are crushing competitors at the state level. Well, the Europeans with the Chinese are lagging behind here for now.....
    1. +11
      8 November 2024 05: 56
      Well, our smart auto industry understood how it works, it seems, before everyone else, but here they have already achieved perfection, and now for a long time already at a new level, they are crushing competitors at the state level.
      1. +5
        8 November 2024 12: 32
        Quote: Aerodrome
        .

        Let's pay attention to the fact that UAZ was developed and started to be produced under the Soviet regime. And now, for more than 30 years, it is bourgeois. Let's say thank you that UAZ did not suffer the fate of the Stalingrad Tractor Plant and many other plants with the same fate.
    2. +8
      8 November 2024 09: 02
      But with technology, everything is sad, when a unit is developed, for example, exactly for 60 thousand km, and that’s it, it requires replacement, and all car manufacturers are guilty of this, now they don’t make cars, now they make things that require something like a subscription.

      this topic is already "as old as the world"...
      Back in the late 80s, Volvo's passenger car division was on the verge of bankruptcy.
      the reason was the transition from the 2nd series to the 7th series of passenger cars, and the 7th series at that time received all possible world prizes for safety...
      when we started to look into what was happening, it turned out that the 2-series was still alive and none of its owners were going to change the car for a new one (7-series)...
      and in the early 90s it was announced that the machine's service life should not be "infinite", but have specific time between failures...
      otherwise the auto industry can be closed...
      1. +1
        13 November 2024 22: 52
        In the early 90s it was announced that the machine's durability should not be "infinite"

        Capitalists in the auto industry have understood this. It is profitable to make equipment designed for a warranty period of operation and requiring replacement within six months to a year after its expiration. This applies fully to household appliances in the low and medium price range. In the premium segment, conscience still glimmers in places. But here, as luck would have it...
  4. +1
    8 November 2024 05: 31
    China's investments in assembly plants in Russia will make the revival, or at least the existence, of the Russian auto industry a historic milestone.

    The Chinese themselves, if they have money, don’t look at their own handicrafts – they buy imported ones.

    On the streets of England you can only rarely see a conditionally Chinese MG or SAIC. Volvo - a LITTLE more often. Consumer patriotism in Europe is still alive as a phenomenon. Something like that.
    1. +2
      8 November 2024 07: 51
      When was the last time you were in China?
      1. +3
        8 November 2024 10: 17
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        When was the last time you were in China?

        And he writes about Chinatown in Soho wassat
    2. +3
      10 November 2024 16: 17
      The article is so-so. More than 6 million cars have been sold in Europe, and there is not a single Chinese car in the top ten. By the way, the Romanian Dacia is in first place.
      1. +2
        10 November 2024 17: 20
        Article so-so
        Another piece of crap about how evil and vile gay Europeans wassat freeze from hunger.
  5. +4
    8 November 2024 06: 05
    Let me slightly paraphrase a Kazakh proverb: "... when a Chinese comes, a European will seem like a brother..." smile
  6. +2
    8 November 2024 07: 04
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    The Chinese themselves, if they have money, don’t look at their own handicrafts – they buy imported ones.

    Have you been to China lately? I was there last year. In Shanghai. At an industrial exhibition, by the way.
    Before that I was in 6, if I'm not mistaken. Impressed by the changes.
    1. -3
      8 November 2024 11: 46
      Have you been to China lately? I was there last year.

      Before that I was in 6, if I'm not mistaken. Impressed by the changes.

      I came to London in '4 and I'm still here. There haven't been many changes - it's still the same as before. I'm not drawn to China - I like Europe better.
      1. +2
        8 November 2024 19: 45
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        I don’t feel like going to China; I like Europe better.

        In vain, Alex. Go as a tourist, you won't regret it. Just not to a big city like Shanghai, but to a village of 1-2 million. hi
  7. -4
    8 November 2024 07: 05
    Quote from turembo
    Well, it seems like everything is interesting and positive, but we are somewhere lying in a long knockout outside the ring. Here you need to look at what the average motorist wants, and he wants an affordable car, reliable, in which he will not invest one tenth of its cost every year, and more or less comfortable, safe and practical, the rest is just banal show-off. Can the world's automakers make such a car? Of course they can, but in fact the industry has driven itself into a crisis, having fun with sizes, shapes, and content, and jokes from the cycle: Let's screw a monitor here too. And really, when you get into a huge crossover, you don't understand why you have less space in the car than in a small-capacity 20-year-old Japanese car, and we are not discussing the technology itself, but all sorts of frills. But with technology, everything is sad, when a unit is developed, for example, exactly for 60 thousand km, and that's it, it requires replacement, and all car manufacturers are guilty of this, they don't make cars now, they make things that require something like a subscription. That is, the warranty has expired, and it begins to slowly demand money, you disassemble the units, everything is fine, but some part made of thin metal broke, or a gasket made of incomprehensible rubber, although if you make these parts normal, you can get a very durable mechanism, but this is business, nothing personal. Well, our smart auto industry understood how it works, it seems, earlier than everyone else, but here they have already achieved perfection, and now for a long time already at a new level, they are crushing competitors at the state level. Well, the Europeans with the Chinese are lagging behind here for now.....

    Yes.
  8. +3
    8 November 2024 07: 55
    Yes, only one manufacturer from China is fully localized and did not lose, the rest, a screwdriver.. Perhaps something is more or less localized in Kaluga... But as for scrap, of course, it's terrible.. And the gas monopodist in such a situation does not move, only the prices are getting higher and higher, and the quality is alas... Sad..
    1. +5
      8 November 2024 09: 04
      And the hashish monopodist in such a situation does not move, only the prices are getting higher and higher, and the quality, alas... It's sad..

      I immediately remember: "why do we need bees - we need honey"...
    2. +7
      8 November 2024 11: 05
      Our monopolist wants to remain in the "high-margin segment" without doing anything. And the Chinese are a big hindrance to him in this, so he complains to the Ministry of Industry and Trade about raising duties and recycling fees. The Chinese have grown in price - AvtoVAZ immediately raises the price tag without changing anything in the car, but on the contrary, removing options. Just yesterday I saw a post in Telegram about the new Vesta, which is completely empty (no radio, speakers, microlift and glove compartment lighting, visor mirrors, airbags) and costs 1,45 million. Apart from "completely stunned" there was no other thought in my head (of course, there was a less cultured phrase)
    3. +1
      8 November 2024 12: 41
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      Yes, only one manufacturer from China is fully localized
      And where is this miracle? What model of car is it? How many are produced?
      Is it really true that it is produced entirely, down to the last screw, in Russia?
      1. +2
        8 November 2024 12: 56
        Haval, a plant in the Tula region. Plus Haval next year will zaruskat the full cycle of Haval M6 in Kaluga at the former PSA facilities
        1. +3
          8 November 2024 13: 05
          What do you understand by a full cycle? Are all the necessary parts cast, stamped and processed? Or do they only assemble cars from parts, mostly brought from China?
          1. +1
            8 November 2024 13: 28
            The bodies are stamped, welded, painted. The engine shop is getting ready for launch. For the F7 and M6 models, if memory serves.
            1. +3
              8 November 2024 13: 37
              The metal sheets for the bodies are made in Russia? Are you sure? The engine shop is an assembly shop. The production shops are called differently. And you, as always, are in a hurry to announce full localization, when there is no sign of it.
              And more questions. What share of the factories belongs to Russian bourgeois, and what to foreigners? Do Russian bourgeois invest their profits here, or somewhere else?
              1. +3
                8 November 2024 14: 26
                1. The sheet is produced in Russia, at the Severstal plant, with double-sided galvanization.
                2. According to the authorities and the manufacturer, a workshop for the production (yes, production, not assembly!) of engines has been launched in Tula (March 2024). The same is planned to be launched in Kaluga.
                3. I only answered your question about stamping and processing of parts. I did not talk about full localization.
                Why I know - I monitored different resources in terms of what to choose if I have to change the car to a Chinese one, it is clear that the priority is to those assembled here, then perhaps it will be better with spare parts.
                And our monopolist is state-owned? And what difference does it make where they invest their money? Knowing our profits, they certainly won't go to modernizing production, but the leftovers (not finished) from the state subsidy, they will most likely go.
                1. +5
                  8 November 2024 15: 23
                  Quote: Ilya22558
                  The engine production workshop (yes, production, not assembly!) has been launched

                  There is no such thing as an engine production shop. There is an engine production plant. And there are workshops: assembly, foundry, forging, stamping, painting, parts processing, hardware, and others. Even bearings are produced in specialized factories, and not in the workshops of an automobile plant.
                  Quote: Ilya22558
                  Why do I know?
                  A serious statement. It's scary to comment directly.
              2. +1
                8 November 2024 17: 07
                KLM owned factories in Russia Ford, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Renault, Toyota?? You ask a stupid question, knowing the answer to it.
        2. +2
          8 November 2024 15: 43
          The photo shows what some are quick to call localization: In the warehouse, for each unit brought from abroad, there is its own local place in the warehouse.
          And I have an idea of ​​how it should be with full localization. But now there is no such thing.
          1. 0
            8 November 2024 17: 05
            Well, this is not a hawala plant, but an ordinary screwdriver, of which there are many in Russia now.
  9. +6
    8 November 2024 08: 08
    European auto industry: where are you heading? Will Russians really have to switch to Chinese cars? The Russian auto industry can't seem to recover..it's withering and withering..
    1. -10
      8 November 2024 08: 20
      What's wrong with a car from China? If you put aside used Inlmarks and have 2,5 million rubles in your pocket and a choice of VAZ or China, what would you ultimately prefer?
      1. +6
        8 November 2024 08: 41
        once again.. The Russian auto industry can't seem to recover.. it's withering and withering.. How I wish the Russian auto industry was better, at least cheaper than the Chinese one.. Or is the entire Russian auto industry built in damned places?
        1. -3
          8 November 2024 08: 45
          It's unlikely to be better than the Chinese.. Time has passed to overtake them, unfortunately
          1. +10
            8 November 2024 08: 49
            But are we a great power or not? The second economy in Europe, the fourth in the world? "One more push, one more try" (c) Russia received 25 years ago, it was raised from its knees, "cleaned of potato peelings" (c), and apparently, while they were raising and cleaning, the time to overtake China has passed?.. wink
            1. -6
              8 November 2024 08: 53
              Well, we can make tanks, missiles, but it's not our destiny to make a passenger car, even the USSR couldn't do that.
              1. +1
                8 November 2024 09: 12
                Yes, so you drive into the market in a tank with a missile, point the barrel at the seller and ask: how much, how much... you know, the thing you need...
        2. -1
          8 November 2024 08: 49
          Now the question is not about catching up and overtaking, but at least improving the quality of assembly of cars at VAZ.. So that when leaving the showroom the next day you don’t have to go back because something rattles, falls off, etc.
          1. +1
            8 November 2024 08: 52
            Now the question is not about catching up and overtaking, but at least improving the quality of assembly of cars at VAZ.
            And the market? The market can't improve the quality of assembly? wink Or maybe it's time for adjustments? smile
            1. +4
              8 November 2024 08: 57
              Do you still believe that the market will regulate anything there? VAZ is a monopolist, there is no real competition, the people will swallow it, so they don't bother. They've been churning out the Niva for 50 years without any changes. What, there is no alternative and it will do. The market may regulate, but the bazaar definitely doesn't.
              1. +5
                8 November 2024 09: 14
                And you still don't have a sense of humor? Should I write "Attention! Sarcasm!" and put a smiley after every sentence?
          2. +1
            8 November 2024 09: 09
            So that when you leave the showroom the next day you don’t have to go back because something is rattling, something has fallen off, etc.

            in Soviet times, there were more than enough "guest workers" there, as was the case in all car factories...
            don't think that migrant workers were only from Central Asia, no, there were students, collective farmers, workers from obscure offices... and everyone, for their work, received either cars or spare parts - bypassing the "funds"
            1. -1
              8 November 2024 09: 11
              I honestly don't know who worked there, there were definitely Vietnamese at ZIL in the 80s. But I remember for sure that at that time, God forbid, you come across a car manufactured at the end of a quarter or a year, in the second half of December...
      2. 0
        8 November 2024 09: 03
        Andrey VOV. The Chinese auto industry is quite wisely moving into Russia. Oskar Konyukhov is the son of Fyodor Konyukhov and there are countless of these tanks in Sochi.
        1. +4
          8 November 2024 09: 08
          Well, we have 10 Haval pickups at the agronomists' premises, they've been working in the fields for a year, so far they're holding up, before that they had L200s
      3. +3
        8 November 2024 09: 50
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        What's wrong with a car from China?

        You better answer, what could be okay there?

        Firstly, the exorbitant price does not suit me. I would like the quality to be higher. Availability of inexpensive and the availability of spare parts for Chinese brands.
        1. +5
          8 November 2024 11: 05
          Let's take for example Geely Emgrand, at a price that Vesta in minced, but classic automatic, all modern gadgets, spare parts are there, with quality all norms, in two years of operation the neighbor changes only oil and filters. The Chinese auto industry is not what it was 10 years ago GAZ, and unlike VAZ.
          1. +4
            8 November 2024 12: 55
            Quote: Andrey VOV
            Let's take for example the Geely Emgrand, at a price that's like a Vesta in mincemeat, but a classic automatic, all the modern gadgets

            Why compare it with the arrogant VAZ? Inexpensive means that many working people can buy it, and not just a few, mostly bourgeois.
            1. +1
              8 November 2024 12: 56
              How much do you think is inexpensive?
              1. +1
                8 November 2024 13: 06
                Quote: VasAndr
                when many working people can buy it, and not just a few, mostly bourgeois.
                1. +3
                  8 November 2024 13: 08
                  Well, that's demagogy, in the USSR not everyone could buy a car either, not everyone could afford it
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2024 13: 10
                    Where did I write that that's it? Don't make things up.
                    1. 0
                      8 November 2024 13: 15
                      The yards are full of cars, in September they were running low on the salons, and it’s not the bourgeoisie at all, it’s clear that it’s loans, trades and so on, but unfortunately it’s like that all over the world
                      1. +5
                        8 November 2024 13: 28
                        In the yards, there are mostly used cars 10+ years old. There are also plenty of those that are parked but not driven. Waiting for disposal or a change of owner.
                        Only suicides or bourgeois people who use cars as a means of earning money can take out a new car on credit at current prices and interest rates. So there's no point in painting an enthusiastic picture.
                      2. -2
                        8 November 2024 15: 24
                        Come on, nothing like that, like 10 year olds less
                      3. +8
                        8 November 2024 14: 20
                        I get a salary higher than the regional average, drive a 20-year-old Japanese car and cannot afford to buy a new Chinese car. So the man is right, now only wealthy people can afford to buy a new Chinese car.
                        The interest rate is a completely different story.
                        Given that in China itself these cars are much cheaper. The protectionist policy towards AvtoVAZ is in action.
                      4. -2
                        8 November 2024 15: 23
                        Cheaper, but don't forget about customs and scrap, that's how it works
                      5. +1
                        11 November 2024 14: 28
                        don't forget about customs and scrap, that's how it works

                        Customs and scrap metal were raised so that the auto-tank would work, but instead of working it produces a low-quality product for crazy money...
                      6. 0
                        11 November 2024 16: 31
                        Customs hasn't changed for a long time, but scrap is changing
        2. 0
          12 November 2024 22: 57
          So the question about the price is not for Chinese automakers, but for the Russian authorities.
          There are spare parts for the same Haval, right down to pistons and rings.
    2. +1
      11 November 2024 14: 21
      The Russian auto industry just can't recover...it's withering and withering...

      Why should they recover? Raise import duties on imported goods, raise the price of your own and you don’t have to do anything. You don’t have to release new models, you don’t have to compete with anyone. Just like they fed us the line “the market will regulate everything”...
  10. -2
    8 November 2024 08: 56
    . you will have to put up with the “bonuses” of electric transport - short autonomy, short battery life and low cost on the secondary market.

    Nowadays modern electric trains have an autonomy of 800 km. Do you think it is low? Batteries are designed for 15 years. Then they can be repaired. Replace weak banks.
    Have you seen the price of electric cars on the secondary market? They are more expensive than gasoline cars.

    The calculating Germans are right there sales of electric trains collapsed", and with them the plans of automakers.

    The statement was heard. Now let's look at the real statistics. In 2023, sales (production) of electric trains in the world increased by a third compared to 22. And in Russia, sales increased fourfold.

    There will only be more to come.
    1. +2
      8 November 2024 09: 01
      Well, yes, last year a thousand, this year 4... in big cities the electric train is fine, but in small cities, and in the provinces, where there are no electric charging stations, there is a terrible service... Not everyone has their own house, so that you can install a mini charging station. But I rode in a Tesla and Zeker, damn gorgeous
      1. +1
        8 November 2024 09: 08
        I have a commercial charging station right next to my house. I live in a 12-story building on the 9th floor. I agreed with the management company to bring a 220 socket (with a meter) from the basement to the car park. But I don’t have an electric train yet, so this is just a preliminary agreement.
        1. +2
          8 November 2024 09: 09
          You are lucky, and how many cities have none at all or one or two?? On the highways.. The same M4, how many are there?
    2. +7
      8 November 2024 09: 16
      Nowadays modern electric trains have an autonomy of 800 km. Do you think it is low? The batteries are designed for 15 years.

      where does this data come from?
      We had an electric bus, in winter it couldn't stay on the road for more than 3 hours - it needed recharging...
      and the passenger transportation schedule is 16 hours... and how many electric buses are needed to cover this schedule??? 2 or 3 times more than diesel vehicles?
      what are you talking about?
      1. -3
        8 November 2024 09: 24
        Quote: Dedok
        where does this data come from?

        Look at the performance characteristics of modern Chinese cars.
        https://autoreview.ru/news/zeekr-001-novaya-top-versiya-s-dal-nost-yu-hoda-bolee-1000-km
        1. +7
          8 November 2024 09: 31
          Look at the performance characteristics of modern Chinese cars.

          Are you seriously?
          But what about the climatic zones of our vast country?
          or do we live with an average annual temperature of +5 degrees ?????
          what are you talking about?
          1. -1
            8 November 2024 09: 37
            Quote: Dedok
            what are you talking about?

            I mean that the range of electric trains is already offered for any wallet. The function of ultra-fast charging has also appeared.

            But personally, 200 km is enough for me. I drive 20 km a day in the city. 50 km maximum. I don’t go further than 20 km outside the city. And a good half of motorists are like me.
            1. +5
              8 November 2024 09: 49
              And there are a good half of people like me motorists.

              The last Sunday of October is the Day of the Automobile Transport Worker...
              but everyone who has a car thinks that he is a motorist...
              yes, no - he is a "rider" - in his own car and nothing more...
              transport operation is "a little bit different"
              1. 0
                8 November 2024 09: 58
                Quote: Dedok
                yes, no - he is a "rider"

                Okay then. Let it be so.

                But it's better than it was before. For example, in the Moskvich-412. It had to be prepared before each trip. Set the ignition, valve clearance, control the amount of electrolyte in the battery, move the choke towards you before the factory one... That Moskvich did not tolerate riders!
                1. +2
                  8 November 2024 12: 14
                  Quote: Stas157
                  in Moskvich-412. It was necessary to prepare it before each trip. Set the ignition, valve clearance, control the amount of electrolyte in the battery

                  belay
                  Who told you about this? Most likely he regularly ran to the garage from his wife. Yes
                  Quote: Stas157
                  pull the choke towards you in front of the factory

                  This is a second in time!
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2024 15: 21
                    Quote: Dym71
                    Who told you about this?

                    Nobody told me. I did it myself.
                    1. +2
                      8 November 2024 15: 38
                      Quote: Stas157
                      Nobody told me. I did it myself.

                      Then I'm sorry I got into trouble with my wife. wassat
            2. +5
              8 November 2024 12: 31
              A super-fast charging function has also appeared.


              Here it is more marketing, if you have a battery, let's say 140 kW*h, you want to charge it, say, by 10% in 5 minutes, that is, pump 14 kW*h in 5 minutes, you need a charging power of 168 kW and this is without taking into account the charging efficiency, if you want to charge in 10 minutes by 10%, then you need a charging power of 84 kW, even if you have a three-phase network with a voltage of 380, the current will still be 77 amperes, only connecting the charger will take a decent amount of time so that the contacts do not burn out. And all this without taking into account the efficiency, which drops with an increase in charging power.
      2. +2
        8 November 2024 12: 25
        We had an electric bus, in winter it couldn't stay on the road for more than 3 hours - it needed recharging...


        You are comparing different things, if we take the consumption of a car of 10 liters per hundred, the weight of one liter of 96 is 770 grams, thus per hundred kilometers the consumption is 7,77 kg of gasoline, the energy density of gasoline is 2250-2917 W * h / kg, that is, a car per hundred kilometers (let's say per hour of driving for simplicity) consumes 17482 - 22665 W * h, then the efficiency of the car is on average 20-30%, as a result, the required energy for 100 km (at maximum efficiency) is 5244 - 6799 W. With a battery capacity of 140 kW * h, this is theoretically enough with a reserve for 800 km.
        An electric bus operates in a different mode and with a different load, which is why it drains the battery faster than a light vehicle.

        Well, there is already experience in Russia of using the same Tesla in Barnaul, the capacity does not drop so much in the cold, and let's be honest, if it's below 25 outside, not every passenger car feels good if it's parked outside all night.
        Electric cars have one problem - long charging time, you can't fool physics here, if you need to pump in 150 kW*h, then either a long and tedious charge takes a day or a quick charge with megawatts in minutes.
        1. +3
          8 November 2024 13: 55
          You are comparing different things,

          I compare the rolling stock in the park - where almost 200 buses operate, not virtual ones - but real ones, breaking down with their own advantages and disadvantages...
          your calculations are only for the Internet, in life everything is not like that...
          and there is no need to compare "soft with warm"
          1. 0
            8 November 2024 14: 08
            No, you are comparing something that is not comparable. You are told that there are light electric vehicles that, according to the manufacturer, have a range of 800 km on a single charge. You argue that somewhere there are electric buses that only travel for three hours on a charge. How do you compare a light electric vehicle and an electric bus? Is this soft versus warm?
    3. +4
      8 November 2024 09: 59
      Nowadays modern electric trains have an autonomy of 800 km. Do you think it is low? Batteries are designed for 15 years. Then they can be repaired. Replace weak banks.

      I have to drive 2000 km to my mother-in-law... And I do it in 22...24 hours. And how long will it take me to drive on electric? And where can I charge it? And this is in the European part of the country! And how are things beyond the Urals?
      1. -1
        8 November 2024 10: 06
        Quote: VIK1711
        I have to travel 2000 km to see my mother-in-law...

        It's more comfortable to cover such a distance by train. Even more so by plane. And faster. Well, that's just me.
        1. +2
          10 November 2024 09: 44
          It's more comfortable to cover such a distance by train. Even more so by plane. And faster. Well, that's just me.

          Flights are delayed, departure times are changed... And when visiting your mother-in-law, a car under your ass wouldn't hurt.
      2. -1
        8 November 2024 20: 05
        Maybe you should find a mother-in-law closer?
        1. +1
          10 November 2024 09: 42
          Maybe you should find a mother-in-law closer?

          You have to love your mother-in-law from afar...
      3. +2
        11 November 2024 14: 48
        I have to travel 2000 km to see my mother-in-law.

        I'm not going to my mother-in-law, but it's the same distance from Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug to Bashkortostan, from the Urals through the Ural Mountains, and there are no electric charging stations there at all, so we won't be driving an electric car anytime soon...
    4. +5
      8 November 2024 12: 30
      Modern electric trains have a range of 800 km
      On an ideal test track with fuel-efficient (low rolling resistance) tires and a professional test driver. In reality - 30-50 percent less.
      1. +4
        8 November 2024 14: 10
        Yes, as usual, without taking into account the terrain, wind, air conditioners on, etc., it is still possible with folded mirrors and the most constant speed with the least possible acceleration.
  11. +6
    8 November 2024 09: 11
    European Auto Industry: Where Are You Heading?

    the title and article should be devoted to more pressing issues for us:
    Russian auto industry: where are you heading?????
    1. 0
      8 November 2024 09: 20
      There is also this - "Russian auto industry: where are you heading" https://topwar.ru/250903-rossijskij-avtoprom-kuda-ty-katishsja.html
      1. +1
        14 November 2024 20: 07
        The meaning of your article is pleasant and understandable.
        What's bad for them is good for us.

        But if you understand the technical device
        car, then you can understand the disaster that
        threatens the auto industry if officials from the European Union,
        will implement the "GOELRO plan".

        No ICE, electric motor. Good. What's lost?

        There is no more fuel system, no gas tank, no pump,
        filters, injectors, ignition system, spark plugs, coils.
        No cooling system, Radiator. Timing belt, No system
        lubricants NOTHING. You don't need any motor oil,
        no antifreeze, radiators, piston rings, seals,
        cuffs, gaskets, seals, exhaust system...

        Everything goes to the trash. Together with the people who develop all this,
        design, implement, manufacture, sell and service.
        Software only.

        Further, there is an understanding that one power unit is not needed.
        Four electric motors are needed for each wheel hub.
        And it looks like everything is heading that way.

        This is total crap.
        You can throw away the ENTIRE transmission.
        Drive shafts with all internal and external CV joints.
        No need for cardan shafts, crosspieces, gearboxes, at least automatic transmissions,
        mechanics, robots and variators, transfer cases, bridges, etc.

        All you need is "only" software.

        And, of course, all those who were involved in maintenance,
        repair and sale of spare parts - to the trash heap.

        And the steering?

        What is it for?
        It is possible to implement servo drives on the shock absorber strut
        connecting it to the steering knuckle.

        And now you get an electronic steering wheel, without a steering column,
        steering cardan shaft, steering rack as such with all
        tips, rods, power steering fluids and other
        Only steering wheel position sensors and software.

        And everyone who is involved in repair, maintenance, and sale of spare parts -
        to the trash heap.

        What will remain from the classic car design?

        NOTHING!
      2. +1
        14 November 2024 20: 32
        Yes, I forgot about the braking system.
        The electric motor can rotate in one direction,
        and in the other direction, i.e. either accelerate the car,
        or slow it down.

        Accordingly, you do not need: brake discs,
        pads, working and main brake cylinders,
        aging hoses, rotting tubes and calipers.

        And the people who do this...
      3. 0
        14 November 2024 20: 49
        And further.
        Maybe it was not for nothing that Elon Musk's partner left for a separate office,
        to develop next generation batteries?
  12. +2
    8 November 2024 09: 16
    . The same thing that Russia is doing now - raising import prices. Only the government is doing it directly does not target Chinese technology, but restricts the import of any cars, hoping for localization of assembly within Russia.

    And which one, if not the Chinese one? There is no other one on official sale.

    Now Europeans and Americans are raising duties on Chinese cars. And the press is outraged by this. But Russia has introduced much higher duties on the same Chinese cars. Let's talk about this.
  13. +4
    8 November 2024 09: 44
    Russian auto industry, where are you heading?
  14. +6
    8 November 2024 10: 36
    The European automobile industry's lurches are interesting, first of all, as an example of the "foresight" of the Old World's officials. The planning horizon for most of them does not exceed three to five years, and tasks are set based on immediate challenges.

    Well, that's easy to explain.
    The time interval from the first sketch on paper to the production car leaving the factory gates is much shorter for Western cars than for ours.
    2-2,5 years against our 5-7 years. And then, we got these same 5-7 years of ours only in recent years, when the French came to AvtoVAZ. What and how will happen with our cars today, after the well-known events - only God knows. It is quite possible that the same "six" (VAZ-2106), which was produced practically without changes, for 30 years! Only in the role of the six will act, for example, Granta
    That's the entire planning horizon...
    Europeans who are going somewhere wrong. You can be happy about this, you can be sad about it, but you can't ignore the phenomenon

    I have never understood the joy of other people's mistakes.
    Today, everything in the world is interconnected. If the foreign auto industry collapses, it will definitely affect the domestic one. And not for the better.
  15. +3
    8 November 2024 11: 26
    The reality is that the EU gave our market to China (along with factories, engineers, managers, sales showrooms). Gave it away without competition or a fight. As soon as China takes over industrial sites for the production of cars following the example of KIA and VW and starts making localized cars, even a full return will not give the EU the opportunity to return our market. We can still believe in the Koreans and Japanese. But China mastered German VW and ICE and DSG (gearbox) technologies; they even have the main engines of all companies 1,5 turbo and 2.0 turbo... with the same characteristics.
    1. 0
      9 November 2024 09: 40
      Quote: Zaurbek
      As soon as China takes over the manufacturing sites for cars following the example of KIA and VW and starts making localized cars

      I also hope that then the prices for cars will go down. The current prices multiplied by two are very inhumane.
      But the thing is that the Chinese are not in a hurry to localize their cars on our market. Why? They have no one to compete with. Perhaps only among themselves. But they can come to an agreement among themselves.
  16. +1
    8 November 2024 11: 59
    Seriously? You won't be able to make much money?
  17. +3
    8 November 2024 12: 37
    European industry, especially German, has in modern times been built around cheap energy from Russia.


    How is this possible? In order to make such statements, a serious economic analysis of the activities of enterprises is needed, but that’s okay, another question arises here: why is the industry in Russia not at the level of the European or Chinese if it’s all about cheap energy resources?
  18. +1
    8 November 2024 13: 58
    The human impact on global warming is greatly exaggerated. According to some data, the content of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere depends mainly on the temperature of the ocean, which is mainly due to the Sun and the core and mantle of the Earth. According to geological data, ice in the polar regions of the Earth began to form when the CO2 content in the atmosphere was three times higher than the current level.
    Geological data on CO2 content:
  19. 0
    8 November 2024 14: 27
    "...He looks good,
    Yes green - no ripe berries:
    "You'll immediately set your teeth on edge"
    (c) Krylov
  20. 0
    8 November 2024 16: 09
    Quote: VasAndr
    A serious statement. It's scary to comment directly.

    Are there any arguments that assembling a body from local materials is not partial localization?
  21. +1
    8 November 2024 19: 41
    "The level of motorization in China is significantly lower than in Russia: 231 cars per thousand inhabitants versus 361 in Russia"It would be nice to announce the age of these 321 cars per thousand citizens of the Russian Federation, and of the Chinese too. I am sure that we will be very disappointed.
  22. +1
    8 November 2024 22: 35
    I don't know who edits the comments, but they do)
    Once again - China earned 2023 trillion rubles in Russia in 1,8 from selling its cars. Net revenue - 3,8 billion. This money went to China. Author, check your status when you write articles.
  23. +2
    8 November 2024 23: 22
    At least they produce cars, but all we have left from domestic products are nameplates and the mysterious Yo-mobile.
  24. +3
    9 November 2024 08: 48
    From the inside I watched as Siemens-Ericsson-Nokia died in mobile phones...

    The time has come for Mercedes-BMW-Audi... Although, what's surprising. Volvo has quietly begun to wander and Saab has disappeared from the auto industry.
    1. 0
      9 November 2024 09: 44
      Quote: Bayun
      It's time for Mercedes-BMW-Audi...

      With the transition to commuter trains, this may well happen.
      European phone models have also disappeared due to the transition to smartphones.