The Unobvious Problems of Russia's Modernization

Utagawa (Gunkai) Sadahide (1807–1873). Foreign Ships Off the Coast of Japan. Los Angeles County Museum of Art

"Connection with the masses. Living in the thick of things. Knowing the moods. Knowing everything. Understanding the masses. Knowing how to approach them. Winning their absolute trust."
V. I. Lenin. "On the Role and Tasks of Trade Unions in the Context of the New Economic Policy" (1921)

What can the process of modernization of Russian society be compared to? Only with the process of modernization... of Japanese society. And if so, then let's look today not at our domestic photographs and illustrations dedicated to this topic, but at Japanese ones. They are very "talking", and I am absolutely sure that they will "tell" us a lot of interesting things, not to mention the fact that few people here have seen them before! Well, we will start with the "discovery" of Japan for Western (and Russian) culture, science and technology and Japanese illustrations of this process.

History our society. Recently, a number of very interesting articles have appeared on the VO website, aimed at understanding the cause-and-effect relationship between both the emergence and the demise of the USSR as a social structure. This is Judge yourself A. Biryukova, and Collectivization: What was the plan?? D. Verkhoturova. And the number of comments under them shows that this topic worries people today no less than 20 years ago. And it worries because during this time not only the pluses but also the minuses of the new society have become visible, and, naturally, they cause discontent among a significant part of Russians.

However, this attitude towards reforms in Russia is not news. That in post-reform Russia the broken chain of social relationsShe hit the master with one end and the peasant with the other", wrote the poet Nekrasov in his time. That is, there were plenty of people dissatisfied with the liberation of people from serfdom. And all social groups in Russia at that time had their own aspirations and, ultimately, disappointed hopes. Everything is exactly the same as in Russia in the 90s and today. Some fondly remember free education and medicine, and others remember bright green tights (there were no others!) and holey tights, because... there was simply nowhere to buy new ones. That is, people look at social problems differently. However, there is something that unites them all, which the authors (and commentators on the articles!!!) for some reason usually forget.

Utagawa (Gunkai) Sadahide. Armor for Sale. Heirlooms Sold to Foreigners. Los Angeles County Museum of Art

This “something” is a certain mentality of a particular nation, on which society sometimes depends much more than on the number of factories, plants and missiles with nuclear warheads. An example from history? Please: in ancient Greece, the economic basis of society before our era did not change from the fourth to the second century. But... if at first it was a country of heroes, which laid the foundation for world Hellenism, then all the heroism of the Greeks disappeared somewhere, and they most shamefully fell under the Roman yoke.

France at the beginning of the 1940th century, World War I – heroic bayonet attacks on the Germans by soldiers in red trousers, walking with Lebel rifles in their hands towards German machine guns. And… XNUMX. The public opinion of a soldier as a scumbag, and an officer’s career is the lot of losers. Well, the result is known to everyone – complete defeat, capitulation and the German yoke. By the way, Hitler knew in advance that this would be exactly what would happen. A sociologist professor was sent to France, who studied the moral and psychological state of French society and informed the Fuhrer that it would be very easy to defeat France.

Yoshifuji Utagawa (1828–1887). This is what the new Japanese army looked like in 1867. Los Angeles County Museum of Art

It seems that the calls to read the classics of Marxism sounded good. Moreover, even with an example:

"He silently took out a volume of the PSS of V. I. Lenin, then another, and just as silently handed it to me. "The Russian man is a poor worker compared to the advanced nations," I read the full quote from V. I. Lenin's work "The Immediate Tasks of the Soviet Government" (taken from the PSS, Vol. 36, p. 189). And the meaning of the phrase for me immediately became completely different. A good example, isn't it?"

No, the example is actually bad. Because it is not clear from it on the basis of what facts exactly Lenin made such a conclusion. Just as it is not clear that Lenin was always right a priori just because he was... Lenin. By the way, I am not at all sure that my esteemed colleague reread all the PSS after this, both Lenin's and Marx's and Engels', as well as all the collections of documents of our party congresses, unless he took the candidate's exam in the history of the CPSU in Soviet times when entering the relevant specialized postgraduate program. He didn't, did he? And calling on readers from the Higher School of Economics, people who are mainly working, busy and have families, to do this is, in my opinion, completely useless. This is still a matter for professionals. Moreover, reading these books by non-professionals sometimes leads to very funny results.

Page from an English textbook, 1868. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

So, one of the commentators wrote to me that the collapse of the USSR was a consequence of the decay of the top of its party leadership, that... "it's simple." And, yes, in some ways he is certainly right, but this "decay," for all its obviousness to a non-specialist, is only a consequence of deep processes in our society, and by no means the main reason for the "end of the USSR." Well, the person is not familiar with the specifics of work in Soviet higher education and the requirements that were imposed on the level of training of those who stood guard over the ideals of the "Great October." And, by the way, it was precisely because they knew a lot that most of them turned away from it so quickly. They believed until the end that there, at the top, they knew something that... would help, would not give, would unite, would lead to the straight path... And when it turned out that no, they did not know and did not lead, everything that they had already known before turned against the Soviet system.

Educational image of Colt revolver for Japanese. Sanada Treasure Museum, Matsushiro Castle

Here is one of many personal examples. The topic of my PhD thesis on the History of the CPSU was related to the party leadership of research and development work in universities in the Middle Volga region during the 9th (1971-1975) most successful five-year plan of the USSR. I work in the archive of the Central Committee of the All-Union Leninist Young Communist League in Moscow, and they bring me an interesting document about how the level of student involvement in research and development work and technical creativity in universities in Central Asia exceeds… 100 percent.

This is according to their reports, and it is clear that this simply cannot be, since in the country as a whole it is no higher than 5-7 percent, and only in certain universities, for example, in KUAI, it is 15-17. But these "percentages" need to be financed! So the Central Committee of the All-Union Leninist Young Communist League asks the "senior comrades" from the Central Committee of the CPSU - what to do? And they are told in the margins of the document: "The East is a delicate matter...". That is, the time has not come to pay attention to these paddings.

Well, if you delve into the essence, it turns out that even then we simply bought the "Eastern comrades" as women of low social behavior, so they stuck with us. And when the money ran out, all their love for socialism and the USSR immediately disappeared. And this was only in education, but there were also huge paddings on cotton (and the "cotton case") and much more. So what kind of "socialism" can we even talk about here? I remember that this scared me a lot already in 1987, but what could I do about it? Yes, I included this example in my dissertation as an example of ineffective party leadership of the Scientific Research Institute, and... that's it! It's good that I managed to defend it before 1991.

"Commodore Perry's Scroll" by American Soldier. Sanada Treasure Museum, Matsushiro Castle

So, in order to reasonably talk about some complex processes in our society, it is necessary... to involve not only the economy and write about the number of factories built, but also about the social, educational and socio-psychological structure of our society. To involve statistical materials set out in documents of congresses and decisions of party conferences both at the level of the Central Committee of the CPSU and at the level of individual regional committees, and to read newspapers and magazines of those years without fail (and carefully!).

"Commodore Perry's Scroll" by an American officer. Sanada Treasure Museum, Matsushiro Castle

By the way, the readers of VO have probably already noticed, or at least should have noticed, that my series of articles on the Civil War in Russia, based on materials from the Izvestia newspaper, was suddenly and unexpectedly interrupted by the publications of the spring and summer of 1919. And the reason, you know, is that I lost interest in reading this newspaper further, because I learned everything that I needed to learn from it and convey to the readers of VO, and now I will write about the conclusions I made from its materials.

And it was so that in one of the April materials it was written about the suppression of the "Chapan rebellion" and it was reported that it was raised by... kulaks. Meanwhile, at one time we published an excellent article about this rebellion on VO, and there... everything was different. That is, "Izvestia" began as a newspaper... of "romantic revolutionaries". On its pages in 1918, the leaders of the Soviet state responded to criticism from opposition newspapers, admitted to shortcomings in their work. But... a year passed, and the content of the newspaper was reduced to a simple formula "We are your fathers, you are our children!" - and that's it, not to mention the fact that there were no opposition newspapers left in the country, which was natural in the conditions of war. However, it turns out that the former “fiery revolutionaries”, having come to power, in just one year turned into… mature statists, who think and act differently than before, which just as naturally changed the flow of information coming from the Izvestia newspaper, both in form and content.

And this is most likely Admiral Perry himself. "Commodore Perry's Scroll." Sanada Treasure Museum, Matsushiro Castle

All this, like much else, should be taken into account by the modern researcher of the past, otherwise he may end up with a picture that is quite correct in certain details, but overall resembles a mosaic, in which a number of elements will be missing.

Ethiopians perform concert in Japan. Sanada Treasure Museum, Matsushiro Castle

In our subsequent materials on this topic, we will try to restore these usually overlooked elements of the mosaic picture of our society.

And this is how this “picture” of the scroll looks in the exhibition of the Sanada Museum in Matsushiro Castle

To be continued ...

Comments

[Aerodrome]

I'll go reread Engels' correspondence with that...what's his devil...Kautsky! (C)

[Walrus]

Yes, I don't agree. With both. And what is there to read? They write and write... Congress, some Germans... my head is spinning! Take everything and divide it up.

[Aerodrome]

well, so to speak...

The text of your comment is too short and, in the opinion of the site administration, does not contain useful information.

[Nikolay Malyugin]

We have long been told that revolutionaries were romantics who did not have knowledge of economics and politics. But history says otherwise. The results of the Genoa Conference showed that they had both. Now in the movies they often show that "stupid Chekists" interfered with the work of internal organs. What the Chekists did at that time is beyond the capabilities of modern special services. Although technology has become much more advanced.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

We have long been told that revolutionaries were romantics who lacked knowledge of economics and politics.

For a long time they were hammering into us the exact opposite - that the Bolsheviks were the luminaries of economics and politics, although if you take the biographies, for example, of members of the Council of People's Commissars, you will see a rabble of over-aged loafers and parasites who have NEVER worked ANYWHERE and NEVER managed ANYTHING. Where do they get their experience and knowledge?

Take the programmatic April Theses and “State and Revolution (1917)”.
WHAT of this delirious nonsense came true?
For example, the abolition of the army, police, etc., with the replacement of... the general arming of the people, was declared. Life knocked on their heads and they introduced the police and the Cheka and the Aria and not voluntary, but wildly compelling - blackmail, hunger and hostages, executions (these turned out to be the main "economic" and "political" methods of the "experts" in everything)

The same with the economy - they destroyed everything and waited for peasant uprisings and had to introduce the NEP.

And so it is with everything - they poke around here and there, they put down a couple of million and finally find some kind of solution.
So any person can become a surgeon - he will cut a couple hundred and learn.

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

The result of the Genoa Conference showed that they had both.

Yeah, no loans, no reparations, no diplomatic relations,
Only the aggressor, the world outcast, who brought innumerable troubles and losses to our country, managed to find a fellow outcast, the Germans::

oThe agreement with Russia was all the more important for Germany because in this case it would be possible to come to a peaceful state with one of the great nations that participated in the war, eliminating the prospect of endless debt and allowing for the restoration of normal relations, free from the burden of the past

It was, of course, advantageous for the Germans to refuse the enormous reparations that they were OBLIGED to pay Russia according to Versailles.
And the Bolsheviks the first They began to feed and restore the monster, which, after only 19 years, once again brought us innumerable disasters.
A "great" achievement, yes...

[paul3390]

you will see a rabble of never worked ANYWHERE and NEVER managed ANYTHING, over-aged loafers and parasites

I'm just crying from this thesis... And now - WHO is ruling us??

Father - you have to judge by the results! As we know, they beat you not by your passport, but by your face.

And here is the sad fact for you that it was the Bolsheviks who were able to make Russia one of the two planetary superpowers - you will not be able to change it, no matter how much you distort it. No tsars or bourgeois even came close to the influence and greatness of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Get yourself insected already. Stop lying.

[Olgovich]

Quote: paul3390

I'm just crying from this thesis

What, have you read the biographies of the members of the Council of People's Commissars? The reaction is understandable - you wouldn't let them build a one-stop toilet in their yard. .And here - the state.

Quote: paul3390

And here is a sad fact for you that it was the Bolsheviks who were able to make Russia one of the two planetary superpowers

Quote: paul3390

And here is a sad fact for you that it was the Bolsheviks who were able to make Russia one of two planetary superpowers

There are two construction methods, one is competent, with technology, equipment, safety precautions and drawings.
Another one - by force, with workers buried in a pit, without a blueprint, at random, hand-to-hand , at any cost.

PRICE - remember or remind us of millions of deaths from starvation, etc. (such savage deaths have never happened anywhere)?!
You won't be able to change it and wash it away, no matter how you distort it. No tsars or bourgeois even came close to the famines and executions of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
So

Quote: paul3390

Get yourself together already. Stop lying.

[FIR FIR]

Quote: Olgovich

Another one - by force, with workers trapped in a pit, without a blueprint, at random, hand-to-hand, at any cost.

Rameev's computer and T-34, the jet MiG-9 and the nuclear icebreaker Lenin, Zvorykin's television and a flight into space, etc. - all this without a drawing and at random? Do you even understand what you are writing?

Quote: Olgovich

hand to hand

Yeah, the strongest army in the world at that time, for which the industry of all of Europe worked, was defeated exclusively in hand-to-hand combat.

[Olgovich]

Quote: FIR FIR

all this without a drawing and at random?

This is exactly how the Soviet state was built and the party line was bent this way and that, along the way - millions of deaths from hunger, millions exiled and hundreds of thousands executed

Do you even understand what you are writing?

[Andrey VOV]

No need to waste time on Olgovich, he also forgot to mention the Holodomor, there is no chance of changing anything in his head.

[paul3390]

Well, I'm not going to... What's the point of trying to convince someone for whom history is an act of FAITH? He doesn't think - he BELIEVES, no matter what bald spot lies behind it... And he doesn't give a damn about any arguments, even if you beat him on the head. His FAITH has no relation to reality by definition, and facts have no meaning whatsoever. He exists in a world that is radically different from ours. In which even the number of dimensions is different.

Creed quia absurdum ("I believe, because it is absurd")...

[Olgovich]

Quote: paul3390

What's the point of trying to convince someone for whom history is an act of FAITH?

history is the knowledge of the past through study of facts, evidence, documents etc. That's what I wish for you, and not your blind faith into the communist lies that made people unhappyignoramuses who do not know their own history..

You yourself know the facts of the lies very well.

But you don't care about the pager, even if you beat a stake on your head. Your FAITH has no relation to reality by definition, and facts don't have the slightest meaning... you exist in a world that is fundamentally different from ours. In which even the number of dimensions is different.

Learn real obgas (C)

[P]

First of all, you will learn the concept of methodology. A story from facts, testimonies and documents is exactly the nonsense you wrote in the article. Here is a template for the next article (I reveal the secret knowledge of the Sumerian Anunnaki): Thesis - justification, Thesis2 - justification.... Synthesis

[FIR FIR]

Quote: paul3390

I'm just crying from this thesis

No need, you won't have enough tears for all these similar theses of this genius of the defense of oligarchic-feudal capitalism. A person hardly gets anything for this, he believes in it, that's what's scary.

[paul3390]

What amazes me is that in those days I would have been a janitor at best.. I am from an old noble family on my father's side, we had a mansion in the center of St. Petersburg, my grandmother showed me.. And on my mother's side I am from rich Volga merchants. My ancestors had steamboats on the Volga.. Have you seen "The Dowry"? That's about who I am.

At the same time, I am a convinced communist... And those who, under the old regime, would have bowed at my feet and accepted a ruble for vodka on holidays - they are for feudal capitalism!!!

It's a funny thing, life...

[DrEng02]

Quote: paul3390

At the same time, I am a convinced communist.

Sorry.... I hope you studied Marxism? As is known - the criterion of truth is practice, it showed that socialism is not effective! To bring Russia to the point of purchasing grain, you have to be able to...

Quote: paul3390

And those who, under the old regime, would have bowed at my feet and accepted a ruble for vodka on holidays - they are in favor of feudal capitalism!!!

and this is plagiarism - Bushkov was the first to write something like this!

[paul3390]

Do you seriously think that I am interested in your nonsense?

[DrEng02]

Quote: paul3390

Do you seriously think that I am interested in your nonsense?

I already know that you are ill-bred!
Usually, those who have no arguments resort to insults!
It looks like you haven't studied Marxism, but the author and I have studied it properly!

[FIR FIR]

Quote: Olgovich

they introduced the police and the Cheka and the Aria and not a voluntary one, but a wildly compelling one - blackmail, hunger and hostages

Yeah, millions were wildly forced to fight the bourgeoisie and parasites
Why couldn't the bourgeoisie and parasites force millions to fight against the Bolsheviks? There was enough hunger and blackmail, but no one went to fight for them. What do you say?

[your1970]

Quote: FIR FIR

Why couldn't the bourgeoisie and parasites force millions to fight against the Bolsheviks? There was enough hunger and blackmail, but no one went to fight for them. What do you say?

Mmmm... Right now Ukraine is fighting against us for capitalists, bourgeois and parasites - not for Soviet power...

[DrEng02]

Quote: your1970

Right now, Ukraine is fighting against us.

and this is a stunning example of the effectiveness of propaganda work...

[DrEng02]

Quote: FIR FIR

There was enough hunger and blackmail, but no one went to fight for them.

They did, but the Whites were not ready to lie as much as the Reds! Their leaders still had some conscience and honor left! And they could not shed blood as much as the Reds! There were excesses on both sides, but only the Reds elevated terror to the rank of state policy! And do not forget that the Allies helped the Whites only with the goal of destroying the Russian Empire as much as possible, nothing more...

[Olgovich]

Quote: DrEng02

They went, but the Whites were not ready to lie as much as the Reds! Their leaders still had some remnants of conscience and honor!

Why the remnants? They promised the Constituent Assembly and laid down their lives for it.

Quote: DrEng02

but only the Reds elevated terror to the rank of state policy!

There was nothing like this anywhere, yes.

Quote: DrEng02

And don't forget that the allies helped the whites only with the goal of destroying the Russian Empire as much as possible, nothing more...

There are many more reasons, let's not forget that the USA expelled Japan from the Far East.
And yes, the Entente's deliveries began in the month of 1919, when much was decided in 1918.

[DrEng02]

Quote: Olgovich

Why the remnants? They promised the Constituent Assembly and laid down their lives for it.

You're oversimplifying...

Quote: Olgovich

when much was decided in 1918.

let's not forget about WW1...

[gsev]

Quote: Olgovich

They promised a Constituent Assembly and laid down their lives for it.

The deputies of the Constituent Assembly were shot by Kolchak, not the Bolsheviks. Viktor Chernov hid from Kolchak for some time on Bolshevik territory and even gave fiery speeches at meetings. During the six months of occupation of the Chelyabinsk region, Kolchak's men shot or hacked to death tens of thousands of people there.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

We have long been told that revolutionaries were romantics

a professional revolutionary is, first of all, a specialist in the destruction of the state system. That is why Stalin freed himself from them... The state system was based on class theory that fought against some parts of society and especially zealous fighters are presented in modern cinema as "stupid Chekists", although there were romantics there, which is also bad. The article is absolutely correct, even in our time we "forgive" manifestations of ardent nationalism, which will ultimately harm our descendants

[your1970]

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

What the Chekists did at that time is beyond the capabilities of modern special services.

Of course, it is impossible to take and solve the "East Siberian conspiracy case", and a year later admit that the conspiracy case was made up out of thin air, there is no evidence, and 32 people shot and 140 imprisoned is "Oh, a mistake".
Or take the Rokossovsky case - he was clearly a conspirator, they didn't finish the job quite right...
Using the methods of the Chekists - from "VO" with commentators it would be possible to concoct such a conspiracy - a piece of cake!!!!!

[3x3zsave]

"Connection with the masses. Living in the thick of things. Knowing the moods. Knowing everything. Understanding the masses. Knowing how to approach them. Winning their absolute trust."
V. I. Lenin. "On the Role and Tasks of Trade Unions in the Context of the New Economic Policy" (1921)
For some reason, this idea reached Gilyarovsky before Lenin. And to some extent, it also reached Kuprin and Chekhov...

[kalibr]

Quote: 3x3zsave

For some reason, this idea reached Gilyarovsky before Lenin.

We have many smart people in our country.

[Aerodrome]

V. I. Lenin. "On the Role and Tasks of Trade Unions in the Context of the New Economic Policy" (1921)
For some reason, this idea reached Gilyarovsky before Lenin. And to some extent, it also reached Kuprin and Chekhov...

In I Lenin also learned from smart people...

[BAI]

What do the exhibits of the Japanese museum have to do with the topic? Just that the author (or his daughter) visited there?
And if they visited Antarctica, would there be photos of penguins? Regardless of the topic of the article?

[kalibr]

Didn't you read this? It's at the very beginning of the article..."What can the modernization press of Russian society be compared to? Only with the process of modernization... of Japanese society. And if so, then let's look today not at our domestic photographs and illustrations dedicated to this topic, but at Japanese ones. They are very "telling", and I am absolutely sure that they will "tell" us a lot of interesting things, not to mention that few people here have seen them before! Well, we will start with the "discovery" of Japan for Western (and Russian) culture, science and technology and Japanese illustrations of this process."

[3x3zsave]

In general, neither one nor the other can be compared.

[kalibr]

Quote: 3x3zsave

In general, neither one nor the other can be compared.

Why is that? Even a horseradish can be compared to a finger, considering its length and shape.

[3x3zsave]

It is possible. But the partner's personal impressions are different.

[kalibr]

Quote: 3x3zsave

But personal impressions are different.

That's also true. Therefore, one of the articles in this series will be entirely based on my personal impressions.

[BAI]

Why compare with the Japanese? A specific country, a closed society. Religious, mental differences, etc. Why not with European countries? Not with the USA?
By the way why

VO readers have probably already noticed, or at least should have noticed, that my series of articles on the Civil War in Russia, based on materials from the Izvestia newspaper, was suddenly and unexpectedly interrupted by publications from the spring and summer of 1919.

VO readers shouldn't and didn't notice anything. And they did the right thing.

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

And rightly so

You're in a bad mood this morning... If it's "correct", then it's better not to read it at all. Then you won't even have to notice.

[Frettaskyrandi]

What can the modernization pressure of Russian society be compared to? Only with the process of modernization of... Japanese society.

What periods are we comparing?

[Konnick]

What periods are we comparing?

Illustrating an article about the modernization of the country with pictures from the time of the Japanese Meiji Revolution....original. But Russia is not Japan of that time, illiterate and feudal, but a country, in its time, with the best education and science. The country that was the first to conquer space and was simply stopped in its development by green tights and galoshes

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

illiterate and feudal,

We started out roughly the same. We - 1861, they - 1868. Their literacy by 1913 was about 90%, ours - 85%. And then the differences began and they will, of course, be discussed. You can't cram everything into one material. You yourself won't like it.

[Konnick]

We started out pretty much the same.

They even helped us almost equally... with the intervention of the European powers in 1854, and the Japanese with the threat of US intervention in the same year.... The Treaty of Kanagawa.... Matthew Perry

[tatra]

And from what anti-Soviet propaganda did you read that 85% of people in the Russian Empire were literate?

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

In RI there were 85% literate people?

Ha - I didn't think and added "educated" men and women into one total number. But yes, if you take the country as a whole, then "In 1913, only about 40% of the population of Russia could boast of literacy." It's good that you noticed.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: kalibr

And then there were differences and we will talk about them,

It would be interesting to read about Japan in the sixties of the last century, when it began to turn into the most advanced industrial country

[kalibr]

Quote: aybolyt678

sixties of the last century

I had an article about this, but a long time ago. I'll have to write a new one...

[Knell wardenheart]

An important aspect of the powerful Japanese breakthrough, both in Meiji and after the war, is the factor of low socio-political activity of Japanese society in HAND with the simultaneously existing and NOT finished, deeply rooted paternalism.
Comparing the Russian Empire in 1861 and the Japanese in 1868, one IMPORTANT factor is often overlooked - the Japanese society in 1868 was EXTREMELY politically homogeneous, there were no different "ideas" and visions circulating there for half a century, there such ideas of their own kind were dealt with harshly and right at the root historically, and foreign "ideologists" were not allowed in as much as possible during the period of the closed country. In our country, at least since 1812, there were wanderings and fermentations, and we were hooked on the hook of Western values ​​and visions of things even earlier.
As a result, by the time of the abolition of fortification law and the beginning of modernization, we had much more fermentation of minds and awareness by the masses of their insignificant position in the scheme than in Japan. They slipped through this period in a quick one or one and a half generations on the back foot of successes and without a prehistory, while we had a smoldering prehistory and a mycelium of "ideas" already in full swing, and it was smoldering at the bottom, because the bottom had already been rocked.

The Japanese, having done everything quickly and without unnecessary politics, managed to keep their paternalism intact, not destroyed by the breakdown of the emperor's authority (a la Nick 2). As a result, THEIR success is inextricably linked not with alien "ideas" and not with a breakdown to the ground, but with the practically unbreakable line of "daddy-descendant of Amaterasu". After WW2, "daddy" simply said - "well, let's plow like in the old days, we already did it" and the yellow-faces flew to plow without much thought - should he command there, or maybe we'll strike? Or maybe into the red? Or maybe somewhere else? Or maybe we'll show the world? And do you sleep peacefully when children are starving and peasants are suffering? All this didn’t bother them at all, because the penetration of Western ideas into their depths was as insignificant as it was, and remains so.

[kaa]

In Japan, during the Meiji Restoration, the previous system of governance was completely destroyed. Everything, from the basic laws to local village traditions, was replaced/rewritten based on ready-made European examples. And at the head of visible successes stood the sun emperor, it is clear that his authority was significantly strengthened. However, with the emperor, things simply went faster, the first delegations for experience and treaties with Western countries were arranged by the bakufu government (for which, by the way, the shogun was killed by radical supporters of the emperor). They were of course closed, but they clearly saw how China was being plundered.

[Evgeniy Lyubchinov]

forgive me generously, you indicated literacy in Russia in 1913 as 85 percent... can you tell me from what sources this figure came? and in what layers of the Russian state was this percentage? just remembering the stories of my grandmother, in their village Kocherga, near Novokhopersk, Voronezh region, her brother Nikolai held literacy classes, the people were completely illiterate!!! and my great-grandmother, in the Tyukalinsky district of the Omsk region, remained illiterate, well, they taught her to put her signature and that's it... that's why when they remember 1913, somewhere they seem to hear the crunch of a French bun...:)

[kalibr]

Quote: Evgeny Lyubchinov

You indicated literacy in Russia in 1913 as 85

And you, Evgeny, forgive me. I already answered Tatra (you didn't notice) that I made a mistake. I added up the % of literate men and women and got this. But this shouldn't have been done, it's wrong. Wiki gives 40% for 1913. Alas, I've always been bad at math.

[BAI]

We started out pretty much the same.

The RSFSR and Finland started out in absolutely the same way in 1917.

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

The RSFSR and Finland started out in absolutely the same way in 1917.

Different sizes. In this case, it is significant.

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

with the best education

Just don't talk about it. I'm still struggling with its consequences.

[Konnick]

Just don't talk about it. I'm still struggling with its consequences.

Congratulations on your recent anniversary, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
I'm not talking about today's education, but about Soviet education of the 50s and 60s...

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

Soviet education in the 50s and 60s...

Thank you for your congratulations. As for education, it was a mosaic. Where the defense industry depended on it, it was at its best. In the humanities... on the contrary.

[Konnick]

American colleagues explained to me that “the low level of general culture and school education in their country is a conscious achievement for the sake of economic goals. The fact is that, having read a lot of books, an educated person becomes a worse buyer: he buys fewer washing machines and cars, and begins to prefer Mozart or Van Gogh, Shakespeare or theorems. The economy of the consumer society suffers from this, and, above all, the incomes of the masters of life - so they strive to prevent culture and education (which, in addition, prevent them from manipulating the population like a herd deprived of intelligence).”

Academician Vladimir Igorevich Arnold.
That's all the modernization

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

That's all the modernization

That's right! That's why I gave my students a book to read, a film to watch, and reviews to write for each seminar, which I checked using Advego. And years later they admitted that they read more than they had in their entire lives, and that it helped them and continues to help them. I remember that for 15 seminars there was a selection of 15 books that helped them better understand PR and ways of managing society.

[Konnick]

I remember a selection of 15 books that helped to better understand PR and methods of managing society.

Is PR an industrial revolution or a path of development?

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

PR is

"public relations" or SO - "public relations". They started teaching at PSU in 1995. The third in the Russian Federation. The first were MGIMO and LETI.

[Konnick]

"

"public relations" or SO - "public relations".

Another pseudoscience...in my opinion.
To foist the master's opinion into the slaves' heads

[kalibr]

Quote: Konnick

Another pseudoscience...in my opinion.

Any science is verified by practice, isn't it? I've had many articles here telling how PR developments can be used to manage people and how it happened in life. If practice confirms, then... science!

[your1970]

Quote: Konnick

American colleagues explained to me that “the low level of general culture and school education in their country is a conscious achievement for the sake of economic goals. The fact is that, having read a lot of books, an educated person becomes a worse buyer: he buys fewer washing machines and cars, and begins to prefer Mozart or Van Gogh, Shakespeare or theorems. The economy of the consumer society suffers from this, and, above all, the incomes of the masters of life - so they strive to prevent culture and education (which, in addition, prevent them from manipulating the population like a herd deprived of intelligence).”

Academician Vladimir Igorevich Arnold.
That's all the modernization

And when they suggested "Eat liver pies!" - here the population apparently read Shakespeare, and did not rummage around in search of products - which could be "thrown out", and could not be "thrown out"

[tatra]

If the intelligence is low, then no education will help. Both the supporters of the USSR and the enemies of the USSR were taught the same by the communists, but the enemies of the USSR, who captured the republics of the USSR, turned out to be so stupid that they ruined ALL industries compared to the results of the work of the Soviet communists and their supporters.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

If your intelligence is low, no amount of education will help.

Wonderful words. I'll insert them as an epigraph to the next article - okay?

[aybolyt678]

Quote: tatra

If your intelligence is low, no amount of education will help.

a by-product of education is increased intelligence. Unfortunately, not all those educated in the Soviet Union considered it their homeland. The increased intelligence of the enemies of the USSR was used to destroy a large country .

[gsev]

Quote: aybolyt678

The increased intelligence of the USSR's enemies was used to destroy a large country

In the USSR, the humanities were not developed and were not properly taught to the masses. One of the main secrets guarded by the USSR was the practice of the Bolsheviks and other revolutionaries in organizing party work among the masses before the revolution, organizing circles, agitation, etc. Often there was direct forgery. For example, during the Moscow December uprising, the main tactic of the revolutionaries was the action of small mobile groups, and historians wrote about battles on the barricades.

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

the enemies of the USSR, who captured the republics of the USSR, turned out to be so stupid

How stupid were the Bolsheviks then, if even the "stupid" ones calmly captured the USSR?

If your intelligence is low, no amount of education will help.

Intelligence is apparently something innate, tell me.

The communists, apparently, are from their father Lenin and mother Lamprey?

[Frettaskyrandi]

not the Japan of that time, illiterate and feudal

In "illiterate feudal Japan," by the mid-50th century, 15 percent of boys and XNUMX percent of girls were in school.

[tatra]

press of modernization of Russian society

under the enemies of the USSR - this is to destroy all good human qualities in the people, and to instill in the people only all negative qualities.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

under the enemies of the USSR - this is to destroy all good human qualities in the people, and to instill in the people only all negative qualities.

This is exactly what the next article will be about...
But here's the question: "You are the host, not the guest, take away at least a nail!"
"If you didn't bring it home from work, you took it away from your family!"
These maxims appeared in Soviet times and were widely disseminated. Even the newspaper Pravda wrote about "carriers". This is also the work of the enemies of the USSR, right?

[Alexander Ra]

Why do you care about the nail? Why didn't you remember, for example, about the 300 blocked billions, about the "carriers" of billions-trillions in the offshore?
You're struggling with the consequences of Soviet education, but have you ever tried competing with a lapdog?

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Ra

Why didn’t you remember, for example, about the 300 blocked billions, about the “carriers” of billions and trillions in offshore areas?

Sergei Mikhalkov's fable "The Elephant-Painter". You can't lump everything together. You have to be consistent. I've already written about the shortcomings of Soviet history textbooks.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Ra

Why do you care about the nail? Why didn't you remember, for example, about the 300 blocked billions, about the "carriers" of billions-trillions in the offshore?
You're struggling with the consequences of Soviet education, but have you ever tried competing with a lapdog?

In 1969, bombers landed at our airfield, a year later they were moved somewhere. In 2010, garages caught fire and a pretty flapping sound started.
Filled in..
The next morning it turned out that there were 18 boxes of 23 mm in the basement of the burning garage.
The owner of the garage, a warrant officer and flight mechanic from those bombers, died in the early 1980s.
We didn't have 23mm in our regiment after 1969 - NEVER.
18 boxes of 23 mm just in reserve - "You're not a guest at work - steal at least a nail" = 1 flag out of 100 flags.
Even now, after all the precious metal workers and aluminum workers, in any closed garage of any military town in the USSR there is a ton of trained people.
It's funny to even remember that the USSR still sells taps from trained ones to storage facilities - for 30 years.

[Chief Officer Lom]

Quote: kalibr

But here's the question: "You are the host, not the guest, take away at least a nail!"
"If you didn't bring it home from work, you took it away from your family!"

Quote: kalibr

This is all also the work of the enemies of the USSR, right?

This is exactly your profile. Unlike the Soviet special services, which were ordered to wage an ideological struggle on enemy territory by disseminating scientific (ha-ha) knowledge about the superiority of the socialist path of development, the American ones were also engaged in this kind of seemingly naive work, originating from commercial advertising. (The specific phrases may not be their product, but the direction for implementing something like this existed). The beginning, it seems to me, was the Harvard project, which certainly gave impetus to more serious and successful research and projects based on it. Was there anything comparable to it in the USSR, which preferred to give lectures instead of phrases that ingrained themselves in the brain?

[Chief Officer Lom]

(The Harvard Project is a sociological study based on a survey of Soviet citizens who were deported to Germany during the Nazi occupation and liberated by the Americans.)

[gsev]

Quote: Chief Officer Lom

specific phrases may not be their product

After about 1995, I hardly heard a single political joke. It seems that publishing jokes is limited by copyright. I was told what witty chants appeared in Afghanistan immediately after the PDPA came to power, ridiculing its policies. By the way, even now a significant share of information on the Internet is biased, paid-for products created under sensitive centralized management.

[tatra]

Why do the enemies of the USSR love to look for the bad in others, and "don't notice" the bad in yourself? The result of your 33 years is that you got your big, huge, colossal money, because of which all of you and "now it's better than in the USSR", BUT in no industry, position/specialty, you are able to report on how you worked it off for the country and the people, therefore all this money, you, very mildly speaking, simply took away from Russia and its people.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

you are not able to report on how you have worked for the country and the people

Irina, what's wrong with you? I worked at a university and taught from 91 to 2017. So I worked, I taught students. And I also published my own magazine, transported toys from Moscow to Penza by the truckload, conducted PR campaigns against the new communists, who are no better than the old ones, even worse. That's how I worked!!! And the turner sharpened parts, The baker baked bread. The banker created a bank, from the taxes from which the state pays me (and you, probably?) a pension.

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: tatra

under the enemies of the USSR - this is to destroy all good human qualities in the people, and to instill in the people only all negative qualities.

This is exactly what the next article will be about...
But here's the question: "You are the host, not the guest, take away at least a nail!"
"If you didn't bring it home from work, you took it away from your family!"
These maxims appeared in Soviet times and were widely disseminated. Even the newspaper Pravda wrote about "carriers". This is also the work of the enemies of the USSR, right?

But this is a fertile topic, Vyacheslav Olegovich, and will cause a flurry of comments, right?
Do you want this?
If you want to forge,
You will get it anyway
puck!

[kalibr]

Quote: Olgovich

after all, it's a fertile topic

Yes, dear Andrey! You are right. And what's more, there are materials about this in the regional party archive. But... it's a long way for me to get there. It's a damp autumn, it gets dark early. Everything inside is very Soviet, and it stinks of cats and old times. The smell and the memories just make me sick. I worked on my dissertation there for THREE years. I really don't want to go back to that time... But I'll take a look...

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

Everything inside is very Soviet, and it smells of cats and old things. The smell and memories just make me sick.

But I love the smell of antiquity and would be happy to dig around.

True, I have never been to party archives, but I dig around in private archives, libraries, and ruins with interest, I especially love pre-revolutionary things - with yat, leather-bound books, letters, hard photographs...
The people were the same as we are now, no more stupid or thick-skinned than us, with the same desires, worries and problems... WHAT they had to go through, but they didn’t know yet...

[kalibr]

Quote: Olgovich

and I would be happy to dig into it.

You know what's surprising: the state archive and the party archive smell differently of antiquity. I like it in the first one, but you wouldn't like it in the second one either. It's downright mystical... It smells of something rotten. Although, perhaps, it's only with us...

[north 2]

I suspect that if someone were to defend a PhD thesis on the history of the CPSU now, his knowledge of the history of the CPSU would be seventy percent the opposite of the knowledge that the author of the article presented to the commission when defending his PhD thesis on the history of the CPSU. And he would also become a PhD in history? So what history of the CPSU should not be considered pseudoscience? Otherwise, to paraphrase Ilf and Petrov, both candidates for doctorate in such "historical sciences" would exclaim, "Vasya," you recognize brother "Kolya"...
I, as no "candidate", immediately recognized the author of the article, only after reading and seeing his disguised boasting about visiting a museum in Japan. Is this to "thicken" the thin knowledge about the history of the CPSU with something?
ps
My comment will probably be deleted. All the political officers, I remember, did not like criticism, but they were influential. So they are simple. And if the candidate is a doctor of science in the History of the CPSU, then for such criticism he would definitely be taken to the special officer. Well, let's see about the democracy and freedom of opinion here.

[kalibr]

Quote: north 2

only after reading and seeing his disguised boasting about visiting a museum in Japan.

And why did you decide that I was in Japan? Under all my photos I write "Photo by the author". And here I would write the same, and start with material about visiting Japan and my impressions of it. There were such materials, about the Czech Republic, France, Italy... why should I be shy about Japan?

Quote: north 2

My comment will probably be deleted.

Why is that? What's the point?

[kalibr]

Quote: north 2

I suspect that if someone were to defend a PhD dissertation on the history of the CPSU now, their knowledge of the history of the CPSU would be seventy percent different from the knowledge that the author of the article presented to the commission when defending his PhD dissertation on the history of the CPSU.

So it is clear that you do not understand the essence of the question. Knowledge WOULD REMAIN THE SAME. That is what knowledge is for. It is not history that changes. Our views and ideas about it change. The OPINION regarding this knowledge would also change! From the height of our present hindsight.

[Andrey VOV]

Well, yes, the main thing is to change your opinion in time and be in trend all the time, because an opinion is not carved in stone

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

to be in trend all the time, after all, opinions are not set in stone

This is true of any science. As facts accumulate, the interpretation of what was before changes. Isn't that so?

[Andrey VOV]

Much time has passed since the discovery of the law of universal gravitation, many new laws, regularities, and so on have been discovered, but the essence of the law has remained the same!
Almost 80 years have passed since the Berlin operation, for example. Many new, previously closed documents have become known, both ours and German and then allies. Knowledge has been enriched, but another interpretation of the fact that this was a successful operation of the Soviet troops has not appeared and will not appear. So to claim that the appearance of new knowledge always misrepresents is not entirely correct.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

So to say that the emergence of new knowledge always diminishes the idea is not entirely correct.

I wrote INTERPRETATION, this is not the same as "representation".

[Andrey VOV]

Okay, let there be an interpretation that it has changed, at least in my two examples?

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Okay, let there be an interpretation that it has changed, at least in my two examples?

I could write about this, but it's long and I have no time. Alas, I'm sorry.

[Andrey VOV]

You will pour water, splash on the tree, as the teachers of the history of the CPSU masterfully did, and they are not former, but the fact will remain a fact, the law of universal gravitation is what it is, the Berlin operation was one of the successful operations and will remain so.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

the law of universal gravitation is what it is, the Berlin operation was one of the successful operations and will remain so.

Exactly! And yet the interpretation of certain events often changes.

[gsev]

Quote: Andrey VOV

the law of universal gravitation is what it is,

Why do you think that after Einstein's work it is exactly the same as it was under Newton? Newton's model and Einstein's model of the law of universal gravitation are somewhat different. Observations of solar eclipses have made it possible to establish that Newton's formulas do not work quite accurately in relation to the law of universal gravitation.

[Illanatol]

Quote: 3x3zsave

For some reason, this idea reached Gilyarovsky before Lenin. And to some extent, it also reached Kuprin and Chekhov...

Well then? It's one thing to simply write books, and another to do something practically, guided by such thoughts.

[3x3zsave]

Gilyarovsky did "something practical", otherwise he would not have become "Uncle Gilyai".

[Edward Vashchenko]

Good morning everyone!
Vyacheslav Olegovich, an unexpected turn of events.
First, a bit of poetry. Once, when I was still a postgraduate student, I attended a meeting of the University Academic Council. There was a report devoted to the capitalist development of Japan in the 90th century. There was a heated discussion: in the XNUMXs, everyone was looking for the “correct paths of capitalist development” for Russia: maybe Japanese? Maybe American? Or would Belize and Zanzibar do?
And I was surprised by many here by the famous Corresponding Member of the Academy of Sciences Ruslan Georgievich Skrynnikov, who remarked: well, how is that possible, they could, about the Japanese, but we couldn’t.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Well, we will start with the “opening” of Japan to Western (and Russian) culture, science and technology and Japanese illustrations of this process.”

There was already an article dedicated to the "discovery of Japan", so it was possible to immediately proceed to a detailed comparison, without such a preamble. The drawings do not say much, except that the Europeans (Yankees) are shown on them without excessive demonization, as was previously customary with the Japanese.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Knowledge would REMAIN the same.

It is highly doubtful. Some of the previous knowledge would be subject to deliberate distortion and silence, but additional information would appear, partly outright fake, created retroactively.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!"
An ideal formula that almost never occurs in reality.

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

doubtful.

Your statement. Because any "liars" are sooner or later exposed (and with no small pleasure!) and cause irreparable damage to the reputation of the one who did it.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Illanatol

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!"
An ideal formula that almost never occurs in reality.

why? there is also "but not the whole truth!"

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

But here's the question: "You are the host, not the guest, take away at least a nail!"
"If you didn't bring it home from work, you took it away from your family!"
These maxims appeared in Soviet times and were widely disseminated. Even the newspaper Pravda wrote about "carriers". This is also the work of the enemies of the USSR, right?

I have to disappoint you. The smugglers appeared in Russia long before 1917. And there are such in other, quite "developed" countries.
At one time, you could get real prison terms for such "thefts of social property". Then they started turning a blind eye to such things, in fact. Our Soviet government became tolerant of such trifles, probably realizing that the people were not living too well.
But a private owner has never shown such "tolerance" anywhere. In a moment, any "Amazon" employee will be fired if he steals even a penny from work.
Capitalism, however!

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

Our Soviet government has become tolerant of such trifles, probably realizing that the people are not living too well.

Here is the correct remark.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Illanatol

But the private owner has never shown such “tolerance” anywhere.

yeah - in supermarkets up to 100-500 dollars (in different countries) - not stealing, but for three ears of corn - wow, even a trillion ears of corn would rot nearby.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

If practice confirms, then... science!

No. Not everything that is tested by practice is science.
Otherwise, gypsies (who are masters at manipulating others) should be put on par with doctors of science.

[Chief Officer Lom]

It should not. But this is not proof of unscientific nature. Another example: theoretical mechanics and do-it-yourself inventors.

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

should be placed on the same level as doctors of science.

Incorrect! The level is too low for a PhD.

[Soldatov V.]

I don't like the word modernization in this context. As I understand it, it's an improvement of the old, maybe even good. In Soviet times, we developed, kept up with the times, huge housing construction, factories, hydroelectric power plants, nuclear power plants, a modern powerful army, space, education for everyone who wanted it. Yes, there were shortcomings and major wrong decisions. We pulled Central Asia into civilization with all our hearts, with all our souls, so that they could live like human beings, as did the other republics, by the way.
I recently watched TV films about the fifties and eighties, where neither Khrushchev nor Brezhnev are mentioned at all, as if they never existed. But how many notes were written about them and about the decisions of party congresses, where everything was written out what the country should do and how thoroughly.
The works of Marx and Lenin are not the Bible, but a guide to action that can be accepted or discarded, taking into account modern conditions and modern technologies.

[Edward Vashchenko]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself:

In essence, about the development of Russia and Japan, “what’s wrong”?
A hierarchical society with a strict vertical from peasant to emperor, outwardly similar to European feudalism, but only outwardly, with a system of governance that has not been fully studied.
Russia is a classic European feudal society, with a relative hierarchy only for the feudal lords, and the peasant, although a serf, is on his own. There is no hierarchy, like in Japan, and nowhere near it.

Island. Densely populated with a climate suitable for agriculture.
A huge, sparsely populated territory, half the size of the world, open to all winds, in a zone of risky agriculture.

An island that was never threatened by anyone, and since the 13th century no one has seriously attacked it.
Only at the beginning of the 19th century, a war broke out that devastated the European part of Russia for a long time, see the notes of the future Nicholas I, for example.

Technological modernization in the conditions of a rigid executive hierarchical society, with the favor of countries that possess technologies (where do we need to sell?).
Technological modernization in the conditions of a semi-feudal country, with unresolved internal issues of the majority of the country's population, the peasants, and in conditions of constant military threats and not always friendly relations with countries that possess technology.

Technological modernization through wars of conquest (Sino-Japanese War, capture of Taiwan, Boxer War, Russo-Japanese War).
Technological modernization at the expense of internal resources (we won’t eat enough, but we’ll export it).

Technological modernization is being consciously carried out by the state authorities.
The state authorities are forced to carry out technological modernization under pressure from external circumstances (the Crimean defeat, the Berlin Treaty of 1878).

Monoethnic country.
A country where the state-forming people made up 45%, and the remaining ethnic groups, except for the Poles, Finns and Balts, were at different stages of the pre-feudal period.

Sales market, logistics costs: a country with an underdeveloped material culture, need for everything + captured territories with the same needs.
Sales market and logistics: a gigantic country with complex logistics, where, in addition to the European part, the remaining territories needed to be developed so that they could achieve purchasing power, or, in common parlance, “ragamuffins”.

[Frettaskyrandi]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself:

No, it's not by chance that I asked the question above about what period we are going to compare. Japan, in my opinion, is one of the most unsuccessful options.

[oleg Pesotsky]

What a mix! These recipes are mind-boggling - add 2/3 truth to 1/3 lies. Lenin's famous quote about a Russian person as a bad worker is shamelessly taken out of context. There, Vladimir Ilyich reasoned that the organization of production, the capitalist's appropriation of profit, a person's lack of interest in the results of his labor and general illiteracy make a Russian person a bad worker /not verbatim, too lazy to look at the original source, but that's the gist/ The author uses the expressions "collapse" and "death" in relation to the USSR. But if this is so, why is the fight against this formation that "perished" 30 years ago gaining momentum and becoming more and more fierce? If we use the term "defeat of the USSR" and counterrevolution, then everything immediately falls into place and gets a logical explanation. Including similar articles.

[kalibr]

Quote: oleg Pesotsky

Lenin's famous quote about the Russian man as a bad worker has been shamelessly taken out of context.

So did I really rip it out? It's taken from my colleague's article...

[paul3390]

But - you brought her? You are the one to blame for this latest distortion...

[kalibr]

Quote: paul3390

You are the one to be held accountable for this latest distortion...

I gave an example from another author's article to point this out.

[kalibr]

Quote: oleg Pesotsky

is becoming more and more violent?

Is it?

[paul3390]

"The Russian man is a poor worker compared to the advanced nations"

Then provide the full quote... Maybe then the phrase will take on a different meaning?

"The Russian man is a poor worker compared with the advanced nations. And it could not be otherwise under the regime of tsarism and the vigor of the remnants of serfdom. Learning to work - this is the task that the Soviet power must set before the people in its entirety. The last word of capitalism in this regard, the Taylor system - like all the progress of capitalism - combines the refined brutality of bourgeois exploitation and a number of the richest scientific achievements in the matter of analyzing mechanical movements during labor, eliminating unnecessary and awkward movements, developing the most correct methods of work, introducing the best systems of accounting and control, etc. The Soviet Republic must at all costs adopt all that is valuable from the achievements of science and technology in this area. The feasibility of socialism will be determined precisely by our successes in combining Soviet power and the Soviet organization of management with the latest progress of capitalism."

In my opinion, it is obvious that Lenin is not saying that Russians are bad workers because of national characteristics, but that the organization and management of the country's economy itself is very bad...

[Andrey VOV]

What the candidates and doctors of history of the CPSU were masters at was skillfully pulling quotes from Lenin and others out of the general context, perfectly understanding that the majority of the population would not read this. In my student years, I remember coming to the library, opening any volume of Lenin, and there everything was already underlined and highlighted, beauty! :)))

[tatra]

And the same thing happened during the anti-Soviet period. It feels like after the USSR was captured by its enemies, there were immediately no more honest and decent, smart and talented, good professionals at work, people with a sense of responsibility for what they did.
BUT this is not so, it’s just that the enemies of the USSR pushed these people down to the “bottom” and don’t allow them to get to the “top”.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

It feels like after the USSR was captured by its enemies, there were immediately no more honest and decent, smart and talented, good professionals at work, people with a sense of responsibility for what they did.

I have already asked you recently, but where were the "honest, decent, smart and talented, good professionals...." at the 1956th Congress of the CPSU? Where none of these "real communists" stood up and said: "Nikita, you are wrong!" Everyone sat and kept silent, including the "Marshal of Victory". ALL - ministers, ordinary deputies, marshals, aircraft designers, admirals, generals... advanced milkmaids. That is, in 9, just THREE YEARS after Stalin's death, they had lost all their positive qualities, right? Or maybe there were never any honest people, huh? If we bought the leadership of the republics of Central Asia with money in the XNUMXth Five-Year Plan, maybe we bought them all too... the same way as... first Stalin, then... Khrushchev!

[kalibr]

Quote: paul3390

Lenin says

He spoke and wrote about many things. His statements will be in the following materials. But your example is not for me. You should have given it in a comment to another author.

[gsev]

Lenin says
He spoke and wrote about many things.

Quote: paul3390

The Taylor system, like all the progresses of capitalism, combines the refined brutality of bourgeois exploitation and a number of the richest scientific achievements

The essence of the Taylor system is that a person must rest before he gets tired in order to work productively. True science is always humane if it is accessible to all people equally. After reading Taylor's work and Lenin's work on the Taylor system, you come to the conclusion that Lenin did not consider it shameful to lie in order to achieve his goals.

[Olgovich]

m Until the end they believed that up there they knew something that… will help, will not give, will unite, will lead to the straight path

There was, there was such an expectation, Vyacheslav Olegovich, especially in the army.
The officers asked their party and Komsomol organizers: what is going on in the country and when will the chaos end?
"The answer was:

"Everyone at the top knows, everything is under control, no one will allow it, you serve!"

And we served, but there were already bloody fights between Azerbaijanis and Armenians, etc., there were shortages of materials and equipment, and then we turned out to be of no use to anyone at all...

We fully support and look forward to your ideas for publications, thank you.

[kalibr]

Quote: Olgovich

The officers asked their party and Komsomol organizers: what is going on in the country and when will the chaos end?

Students asked us the same thing. They answered: "The Party of millions of shoulders supporting each other. They'll figure it out... your job is to get professional knowledge!" Sounds like it, right? And then our party organizer came and said that the CPSU no longer exists, no one needs you as teachers anymore, the department of the history of the CPSU (scientific communism, Marxist-Leninist philosophy) is closing, but the institute is giving you six months to retrain. There will be a department of just philosophy and sociology, and you will be given "History of Russia." So it wasn't us who abandoned the party, but it abandoned us.

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

Students asked us the same thing. They answered: "The Party of millions are shoulders supporting each other. They will figure it out... your job is to get professional knowledge!" Similar, right?

one to one.

Quote: kalibr

And then our party organizer came

and Israel our fiery party organizer lieutenant colonel has long been

[kalibr]

Quote: Olgovich

In Israel, our fiery party organizer, Lieutenant Colonel, has long been

And our colonel, a teacher of Mars-Leninist philosophy and also a fiery... THERE!

[Andrey VOV]

What do we mean by the party that screwed you? The leadership and apparatus, which, under the cover of a party card, were engaged in the initial accumulation of capital, and then all together became bankers and "respected businessmen" and who really did everything to screw everyone and kill the country, or is the party not only the nomenklatura, but also millions of ordinary people, of which, of course, some were sincere communists, and some, understanding the benefits, went for this?

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

and millions of ordinary people, of whom, of course, some were sincere communists

The party is first and foremost an organization whose rules you obey. And about millions - this is, excuse me, just empty talk. Who obeyed them, received their orders and payment for lectures? Ordinary people are grass that bends in the wind. Without the highest leadership, they are not capable of anything.

[Andrey VOV]

You called yourself a weed, that's a bad idea.. That's pretty cool! And no one argues that any organization, more or less, has and needs a leader, a manager, and that's why the management has abandoned everyone else.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Cool however!

Because that's how it is. Remember how here at VO in 2018-20 people were foaming at the mouth proving that "if something happens..." no one would go and die for Russian oligarchs. And that's what happened. And yes, some didn't go, they left the country and we condemn them. Because it turned out that Russia and oligarchs... are an inseparable thing today and when people die for the country, they also die for them. I remember I wrote then that "they won't go willingly, they will be led against their will." And that's how it turned out. And people were also stimulated with big money, and people go to SVO as if they were earning money! With joy in their eyes. I saw it myself at one of our Penza military registration and enlistment offices. So the main thing is for there to be a "strong wind." And then any grass will bow before it, that is, the people.

[Andrey VOV]

They got out of it, credit, you can tell you have the gift of the gab. And for me, an oligarch is not Russia, just as Moscow is not all of Russia. And as for money and s.. What, don't men deserve to get decent money for their service? Of course, it was cheaper to fight as conscripts like in Chechnya, but the army is not the same.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

What, don't men deserve to receive decent money for their service?

They deserve it! Moreover, back in 2000, he described this very situation in one of our Penza newspapers. And he advocated for a contract army. That is, for everything to be as it is now. How retired colonels and fans of the USSR poured water on me in their response letters... And the author of "The Dawns Here..." Boris Vasiliev wrote a letter in defense. I almost fell off my chair when I read it. Apparently, I found the material on the Internet. He put them all in their place very well.

[Andrey VOV]

In 2000, we were in such a sorry state... That we couldn't support a contract army. And it was mostly conscripts who pulled through two wars. And the SVO showed that the army that emerged was not capable of conducting effective combat operations on such a large front, which is why mobilization was needed.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

that's why mobilization was needed

Experience is the fruit of difficult mistakes. Tell me well that I was able to foresee at least something.

[Andrey VOV]

Well, you weren't the only one who spoke out for the pro-farm movement in those years, the topic had been fashionable since the 90s... and the first double basses were tears, not all of them of course, but the contingent was something else.

[Aviator_]

And the author of "The Dawns Here..." Boris Vasiliev wrote a letter in defense.

Vyacheslav, this writer always had a keen sense of where the wind was blowing from. Under Brezhnev, he wrote a wonderful work of art. During perestroika, he instantly readjusted. He's in chocolate under any government.

[kalibr]

Quote: Aviator_

wrote a wonderful work of art.

For this alone he deserves all respect.

[Aviator_]

For this alone he deserves all respect.

Well, there was such a good Austrian artist, Adolf Aloisovich Schicklgruber, he painted very good pictures. And there was the Arctic explorer Kolchak. If they had stopped in time, then they would have been something to respect. The same with Boris Vasiliev, later he discredited everything he had done before.

[kalibr]

Quote: Aviator_

For this alone he deserves all respect.

Well, there was such a good Austrian artist, Adolf Aloisovich Schicklgruber, he painted very good pictures. And there was the Arctic explorer Kolchak. If they had stopped in time, then they would have been something to respect. The same with Boris Vasiliev, later he discredited everything he had done before.

Hitler's paintings were no worse for what he did later. Kolchak's discoveries enriched our science. Vasiliev's book enriched literature. But Pushkin was a gambler who squandered his wife's dowry and his mother-in-law's diamonds, Dostoevsky was a drug addict, and Lermontov was a notorious misanthrope and, by and large, a boor. But we respect them as writers, and we do not say that their low moral qualities have negated their contribution to Russian literature. Incidentally, we have already discussed this topic using Professor Voll's discovery as an example.

[Aviator_]

What can be said here - the scale of the actions of the voiced characters is incomparable. Just don't talk about A.V. Kolchak's research in the Arctic, it doesn't reach the level of Sedov, de Long and others. I think sled dogs were more useful there. By the way, about drug addiction - morphine addict Bulgakov has been forgotten. And Vasiliev is a toady of the "what would you like" type? For example, the monologue letters of the Red Army soldier Sukhov to Katerina Matveyevna were written by the very talented and famous pyromaniac Marek Zakharov (née Shirinkin). He also later turned out to be a toady. Do you remember why V.S. Bushin called him a pyromaniac?

[kalibr]

Quote: Aviator_

Do you remember why V.S. Bushin called him a pyromaniac?

I don't remember because I don't know either one. There are many things I don't know, but I somehow manage without them.

[Aviator_]

I don't remember because I don't know either one. There are many things I don't know, but I somehow manage without them.

It is noticeable. Marek Zakharov (Shirinkin) is a theatre director, his credits include the TV plays "An Ordinary Miracle" by E. Schwartz and "12 Chairs" by Ilf and Petrov. Vladimir Sergeevich Bushin is a literary critic. Sergei Mikhalkov once wrote an epigram about him - "I got to Bushin's court - lawyers won't save me."

[kalibr]

Quote: Aviator_

Marek Zakharov (Shirinkin) is a theatre director, his credits include the TV plays "An Ordinary Miracle" by E. Schwartz and "12 Chairs" by Ilf and Petrov. Vladimir Sergeevich Bushin is a literary critic. Sergei Mikhalkov once wrote an epigram about him: "I ended up in court with Bushin - lawyers won't save me."

Thank you for enlightening me. But I didn't need this knowledge. How can you make money on it? I tried and try, like Sherlock Holmes - to know only what brings money or pleasure. And what pleasure is there in knowing that someone is a theater director, and someone else is a critic?

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

A.V. Kolchak in the Arctic, this does not reach the level of Sedov,

Quote: Aviator_

And Vasiliev is a lackey of the "what would you like" type?

Your lightness of thought is extraordinary, almost like Khlestokov’s.
If it's not a secret, could you share your personal achievements?
As for Vasiliev - read Astafiev's Damned and Killed - is he also your cup of tea? Or were these front-line soldiers forced to remain silent?

[Aviator_]

Both company telephone operator Astafyev and Vasilyev are distinguished by their servility, which I really don't like in people. They will slander everything for money, even their past. As for the "front-line soldiers" Astafyev and Vasilyev - it is impossible to say better than what front-line soldier V.S. Bushin wrote. I will tell you about my personal achievements when you present a certificate of admission. I can only say that I received a stipend from the Ministry of Defense for participation in a number of developments that went into production.

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

Both company telephone operator Astafyev and Vasiliev are distinguished by their servility, which I really don’t like in people.

Were you personally acquainted with them?
Can you imagine serving in this specialty? There is a novel called "A Date with Nefertiti" - I recommend it...

Quote: Aviator_

It is impossible to say what the front-line soldier V.S. Bushin wrote.

we read about it: "as part of the 103rd separate Army company VNOS The 50th Army marched from Kaluga to Königsberg"
in translation - compared to the company telephone operators, he sat deep in the rear...

Quote: Aviator_

Then present your certificate of admission.

right here? For example, I made gamma simulators for electronic equipment elements in the USSR! What is this available?

Quote: Aviator_

for participation in a number of developments,

it's clear - we worked hard... Did you come up with something yourself?

[Aviator_]

Can you imagine serving in this specialty? There is a novel called "A Date with Nefertiti" - I recommend it...

Well, if you judge the service by the content of the novels, then I have no words. Go on.

"As part of the 103rd separate army company, the VNOS of the 50th army marched from Kaluga to Königsberg"

Do you seriously believe that the VNOS service of the army is located deep in the rear? However, considering your love of novels...

For example, I made gamma simulators for electronic equipment elements in the USSR! What is this available?

Did you at least get your quarterly bonus?

Did you come up with something yourself?

Yes, of course. For which I was rewarded. It was just enough for a car in 2016.
And I respect Bushin for the fact that he never conformed to the "party line", for which he was dismissed from TV back in the 60s, when he spoke out against the thoughtless renaming of streets (article "Who was bothered by Teply Lane")

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

Oh, I have no words.

it is noticeable, that's why I advise you to find out in an accessible form...
By the way, the author is a front-line signalman...

Quote: Aviator_

Do you seriously think that?

I seriously know that the VNOS is located further than the company strong point from the line...
or do you have a different opinion?

Quote: Aviator_

Did you at least get your quarterly bonus?

even the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences, if you understand what this is...

Quote: Aviator_

And I respect Bushin for the fact that he never conformed to the “party line”,

This is a psychotype - you have to be against it!

[Aviator_]

I seriously know that the VNOS is located further than the company strong point from the line...

Do you think that during the storming of Königsberg, VNOS was very far from LBS? Bushin wrote how everything was there, he was a signalman at that time.

even the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences, if you understand what this is...

How can I, a poor and wretched person, understand this?

This is a psychotype - you have to be against it!

This is not a professional dissident, this is a person with his own opinion, and he defended it convincingly. And your writers never had their own opinion, they performed on their knees what the ruling party demanded.

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

You believe

I believe I have answered the question accurately, and you have moved on to questions to the question.... are you ready to refute my thesis? or have you decided to run around? flag in hand...

Quote: Aviator_

How can I, a poor and wretched person, understand this?

Google it...

Quote: Aviator_

This is not a professional dissident, this is a person with his own opinion, and he defended it convincingly.

funny! but nothing more... let's say your level of abstraction is funny... to put it politely...

Quote: Aviator_

And your writers -

alas, not mine... however, the IVS said it right - I have no other writers for you...

Quote: Aviator_

performed in a bent position, as the ruling party demanded.

Do you have something personal?

[Aviator_]

performed in a bent position, as the ruling party demanded.

Do you have something personal?

As for the Party of Power, contact a professional propagandist, not me. I hope you know who?

funny! but nothing more... let's say your level of abstraction is funny... to put it politely...

What does the level of abstraction have to do with it? Unable to formulate a claim?

I think I answered the question accurately

I also think my answer is clear enough.

alas, not mine... however, the IVS said it right - I have no other writers for you...

There are other writers - Yu. Bondarev, V. Bogomolov, and others - don't push classic inversions here.

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

I hope you know who to?

You are so mysterious - how would I know your complexes?

Quote: Aviator_

Unable to formulate a claim?

to the deceased? whom I did not know for 60 years and lived peacefully?
to you - I don't see the point...

Quote: Aviator_

I also think my answer is clear enough.

Quote: DrEng02

that the VNOS is located further than the company strong point from the line...

Quote: Aviator_

Do you think that during the storming of Königsberg, VNOS was very far from LBS?

let's compare the answers...

Quote: Aviator_

Other writers - Y. Bondarev,

"He held various positions on the board of the Writers' Union of the USSR and the Writers' Union of the RSFSR, and from 1971 he was the first deputy chairman of the board of the Writers' Union of the RSFSR, was a member of the editorial boards of many literary magazines, and headed various public organizations."

Quote: Aviator_

As for the Party of Power, please contact a professional propagandist, not me.

You are really funny, how can I say it more precisely - you have a very specific approach....
compare?
"In 1962 he moved to Perm, in 1969 to Vologda, and in 1980 he went to his homeland - Krasnoyarsk." This is Astafyev, he did not hold any posts in the SP...

[Aviator_]

In 1962 he moved to Perm, in 1969 to Vologda, and in 1980 he went to his homeland, Krasnoyarsk." This is Astafyev, he did not hold any posts in the SP...

That is, your criterion is whether the writer held a position in the Writers' Union or not. Well, Erofeev didn't hold any either. And that makes him a great writer? Once again, I don't like lackeys, even if he was at the front in 41-45. The draft was universal then. Astafyev's lackeyism manifested itself in his slandering of the Great Patriotic War. This is not only my personal opinion - it is the opinion of my father, an airplane navigator, and his fellow soldiers, participants in the Great Patriotic War. Is it presented clearly?

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

there is your criterion - whether the writer held a position in the SP,

Quote: Aviator_

There are other writers - Yu. Bondarev, V. Bogomolov, and others - don't push classic inversions here.

This is your criterion - the Bondarev you cite was in high rank in Moscow! And Astafyev lived in Siberia and without ranks... but according to you he is a turncoat, and the nomenklatura Bondarev is all in white... "logic"

Quote: Aviator_

Astafyev's servility manifested itself in his denigration of the Great Patriotic War

1) Is your Russian that bad? Let me enlighten you:
"About a servile, obsequious person; a slave
A lackey of the boss, the management. To be a lackey of the foreman. There will always be a lackey ready to carry out any order."
2) Astafyev wrote as he considered necessary, based on his military experience!
It's his right!
3) As I understand it, you like the "truth" about the war by Y. Bondarev more? And the film Liberation?

Quote: Aviator_

Is it presented in an accessible way?

Quite - the opinion of one against the other, pilots against the infantry... nothing more! My uncle fought from the end of 42 to the Japanese in the anti-tank defense, gun commander, battery sergeant major. Orders: BKZ, OV 2st (military), medals... He only talked about the war when he was drunk and swearing...

[Konnick]

Astafyev wrote as he saw fit, based on his military experience!

What experience did he have? Can you write specifically? Astafyev was a collector of all the frontline myths, and the black ones at that.

[DrEng02]

Quote: Konnick

What experience did he have? Can you write specifically?

have you been banned from google?
"In the spring of 1943, he was sent to the active army. He was a driver and signalman for the 92nd heavy howitzer artillery brigade of the 17th artillery breakthrough division of the Reserve of the General Command (RGK), in July 1943 he took part in the breakthrough of the northern flank on the Kursk Bulge, after being seriously wounded (shell shock) in April 1945 he served in the internal troops in Western Ukraine in Lvov.
He was awarded the Order of the Red Star (April 21, 1944), the medals "For Courage" (November 25, 1943), "For the Liberation of Warsaw" and "For Victory over Germany."
A typical combat path, quite a lot of awards for a private...

[Aviator_]

And Astafyev lived in Siberia and without ranks... but according to you he is a turncoat

He is not only a shapeshifter to me, I have already written about this.

You are more like "truth"

As for the Russian language, it would be a good idea to brush up on it, because your literacy is just bursting. What's wrong with "Hot Snow" by Y. Bondarev?

[DrEng02]

Quote: Aviator_

I already wrote about this.

Many people write about something, but not everyone can write about the Tsar-fish.
and pygmies love to spit on titans, especially dead ones...

Quote: Aviator_

because literacy is just on the rise.

Why are you scratching your complexes?

Quote: Aviator_

What's wrong with "Hot Snow" by Y. Bondarev?

Not at all, everything is ideologically sound...

[DrEng02]

Quote: kalibr

I almost fell off my chair when I read it.

the answer is not saved? it would be interesting - he is a front-line soldier...

[kalibr]

Quote: DrEng02

the answer is not saved? it would be interesting - he is a front-line soldier...

At first I kept it for a very long time. But then the paper turned yellow (newsprint), faded and literally began to fall apart in my hands. But I know which newspaper it was in and I'll try to find and scan it. I myself am interested in remembering that article and the correspondence about it. By the way, there will be another letter there that I need. Without it, they won't believe me if I write something like this... So wait - I'll go to the archive, get my ass back there, but... I'LL FIND IT!

[DrEng02]

Quote: kalibr

I'll go to the archives, get my ass back there, but... I'LL FIND IT!

I hope it's really interesting... and the opinion of a front-line soldier is worth a lot...
As for the mercenary army, it has many advantages, first of all, the soldier is expensive and is taken care of...

[kalibr]

Quote: DrEng02

First of all, the soldier is dear to her and is taken care of.

That's it!

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

But for me, an oligarch is not Russia, just as Moscow is not all of Russia.

This is in your mind, but in reality... everything is as I wrote.

[Andrey VOV]

Well, of course, everything that comes from your pen is the absolute truth.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

everything that comes from under your peoa is the absolute truth.

Almost yes, I was wrong about 85%. But anyone can make a mistake. I just don't write about things I don't know about. Or I write that "this is my opinion" or I indicate the source of the information. Otherwise, how would I have managed to write and publish 45 books? Do you know how many reviewers they had, especially for the books that received grants from the Russian Foundation for the Humanities?

[Andrey VOV]

Yes, for God's sake, if your books have been useful to someone, but often you are intolerant of criticism, this is bad.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

You are often intolerant of criticism, this is bad.

I have a positive attitude towards good, fair criticism, even from Tatra with its communist enemies, and I always acknowledge it. But I have a very bad attitude towards "stupid" criticism - "I haven't read it, but I condemn it."

[Andrey VOV]

Tatra has been repeating his mantras for years, but I think the man is still a little out of his mind.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Tatra has been repeating his mantras for years, but I think the man is still a little out of his mind.

But sometimes she speaks the truth. I asked permission to take her phrase from the comment as an epigraph.

[Andrey VOV]

There are glimpses... Periodically.

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey VOV

There are glimpses... Periodically.

Therefore, there is no need to reject anyone. I have told my students more than once: "Even if in front of you is a puke-covered, drunk as a skunk, sitting in a puddle and screaming obscenities... do not reject him immediately and forever. In front of you is a citizen of Russia who can choose and be elected. An object for your work!"

[tatra]

But in all these years, not one of the enemies of the USSR has refuted my "mantras". Yes, you are all completely incapable of either defending yourselves or holding discussions; for all 35 years of your "freedom of speech" you have had the same mantras - malice AGAINST something or someone, and cowardly whining that you all "have nothing to do" with what you did both under Soviet power and under your anti-Soviet power, starting with Gorbachev. You don't need any ideological convictions, patriotism, or intellect for that.

[Andrey VOV]

Well, of course, you are the only one who is the defender of everyone and everything, hovering above everyone, a lover of generalizations.

[tatra]

Ha, and again you were unable to refute my "mantras". The enemies of the USSR are primitive and limited, incapable of anything normal. Including defending themselves.

[Andrey VOV]

I'm not going to refute them, I have neither the time nor the desire for this, for one simple reason, anyone who has at least something different from your view, here you go mumbling about the VRPGS. Although you don't know my views, nor my attitude to the current regime, nor to the times of the USSR, and so on.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

The enemies of the USSR are primitive and limited, incapable of anything normal.

And a great country was destroyed overnight... That means their opponents are even bigger fools than they are - ha-ha!

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

did not refute my "mantras"

I asked you twice about the "communists" of the 20th Congress of the CPSU and both times you avoided the answer. There was none! So who can't have a discussion? You or me? I reply to all comments addressed to me and give a response to them. And I defended the Soviet power with words and texts in a way that you could never even dream of, but it didn't help. And when it didn't help, I thought about why.. I started looking for the reason and... I found it. There will be more articles about this, and more than one.

[kalibr]

And again my question to Tatra remained unanswered. Well, she doesn't know how to conduct a discussion. Only to accuse... And you don't need a great mind to accuse. To accuse and.... can. Or rather, a fool. But she can't explain where the "real" communists" disappeared to in the THREE years before the 20th Congress of the CPSU. It turns out that our marshals and admirals weren't afraid of the Germans, weren't afraid of Stalin, and now they're afraid of bald Nikita? Or have they already been transformed from "real communists" into "enemies of communists" in just three years? Agree, this is absurd. Then why didn't ANY of the deputies stand up and say "Nikita, you're wrong!"

[gsev]

Quote: Andrey VOV

What do you mean by the party that screwed you over?

I was not a party member. But I ran a school for those joining the Komsomol at school in the VLKSM. We were once gathered for an instructing. The instructor was asked why all the C students and hooligans were accepted into the Komsomol. The instructor from the district committee answered: "The Komsomol is a gathering of the best young men and women. And an instrument for managing the youth. It is easier for the state to influence a hooligan, a slacker and a C student if he is a member of the VLKSM." Therefore, the party and the state were interested in having bad people in the Komsomol. Now Putin is trying to do almost the same thing with the school. A teacher has much less right to punish a bad student than his colleague from Soviet times. So in about 5 years, the fate of the Komsomol will be repeated by Russian schools, in 10 years by higher education, and in 20 years by industry and science. Apparently, the CPSU also partly accepted people according to this principle and the CPSU was an instrument of control of the nomenklatura over the already adult Soviet person.

[deddem]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: paul3390

Lenin says

He spoke and wrote about many things. His statements will be in the following materials. But your example is not for me. You should have given it in a comment to another author.

And it’s useless to talk to that other author, he just keeps strutting around like a black grouse, or like the student in the joke about the fish and the flea.

[kalibr]

Quote: paul3390

Then provide the full quote... Maybe then the phrase will take on a different meaning?

Why didn’t you write this to the author of that other article then?

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Your statement. Because any "liars" are sooner or later exposed (and with no small pleasure!) and cause irreparable damage to the reputation of the one who did it.

Not always. Some myths are too tenacious. Especially if those who spread the myths retain their power for a long time.
And what is truth? This question of Pontius Pilate is still relevant today.

Moreover, exposure sometimes occurs too late, when the dividends from the distortion have already been received and squandered.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Remember how here on VO in 2018-20 people were foaming at the mouth proving that "if something happens..." no one would go and die for Russian oligarchs. And that's what happened. And yes, some didn't go, left the country and we condemn them.

And people are not dying for the sake of the oligarchs' interests at all. Because the oligarchs, although they retain their capital, have long been excommunicated from real political power (sometimes by very harsh measures).
If the interests of the oligarchs had the highest priority, there would simply be no SVO.
And the relocators left our country not at all because of their unwillingness to serve the interests of the oligarchs. Quite the opposite. Some of the runners serve the oligarchs in exile, some are on the payroll of the same Khodorkovsky.

[Frettaskyrandi]

Because the oligarchs, although they retain their capital, have long been excommunicated from real political power (sometimes by very harsh measures).

Really?! You seem to be confusing oligarchy with plutocracy.

[Frettaskyrandi]

Oh, some organism has squeezed out a minus. I am sure that it has no idea about either oligarchy or plutocracy.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Here is the correct remark.

Do you recognize such qualities as humanism and mercy in the Soviet government?
So let's write it down.
Does it matter that “democracy” and “liberalism” do not possess such qualities?
Or do you miss a "strong hand"?

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

Incorrect! The level is too low for a PhD.

True. Apparently they haven't communicated with gypsies in practice. These people sometimes master verbal hypnosis and NLP on an empirical level. So some doctors of science themselves risk becoming victims of these "public relations specialists".
By the way, the recent past has shown that our doctors of science are sometimes inferior even to collective farmers in practical matters. The greatest victims of the actions of swindlers, "builders of financial pyramids" are precisely among the home-grown intelligentsia. And all sorts of fashionable fads, of Western origin, are again most widespread among this public. The most pliable and suggestible part of the population.

For the future: PR is definitely not a science, but a sociotechnology.

[Illanatol]

Quote from Frettaskyrandi

Really?! You seem to be confusing oligarchy with plutocracy.

Yah?
Oligarchy is the rule of a very few.
Plutocracy is the rule of the "moneybags".
In our conditions, these "subsets" actually coincided. A handful of the super-rich wielded real power, and political power too.
This is exactly what we had in the 90s, when Berezovsky kicked open the door to Yeltsin’s office.

But since then the only real center of power is the Kremlin and Putin, for whom our super-big businessmen are just a flock of sheep. They can shear anyone, or even use them for shashlik. And there is nothing to oppose our former oligarchs, since their public support is close to zero.
If tomorrow Putin arrests and jails the five richest businessmen - how will the majority of citizens react to this? Putin's rating will increase a few more percentage points...

[Frettaskyrandi]

But since then the only real center of power is the Kremlin and Putin

Only God can be the center of power alone. Of course, if you are a fan of the king's divinity, then the discussion is pointless. But if you have not yet completely fallen into the cult of the emperor, then you should understand this. Although the last comment raises serious doubts.

[gsev]

Quote: Illanatol

If tomorrow Putin arrests and jails the five richest businessmen - how will the majority of citizens react to this? Putin's rating will increase a few more percentage points...

The problem is not to arrest the oligarch but to find him a better replacement. Khodorkovsky was jailed. The remains of Yukos began to work more productively? Shoigu and Rogozin are completely loyal to Putin. Is the result of their leadership positive?

[Illanatol]

Quote from Frettaskyrandi

Japan, in my opinion, is one of the worst options.

Of course. Like should be compared with like.
Comparing our modernizations, whether Peter the Great’s or Stalin’s, is a priori incorrect.
There is no resemblance...

[Illanatol]

Quote: Chief Officer Lom

But this is not proof of unscientific nature. Another example: theoretical mechanics and do-it-yourself inventors.

This is proof of unscientific nature. Because PR is first and foremost a technology. Technology is aimed at practical use of previously acquired knowledge, and science is aimed at searching for new knowledge.
In short, there is no need to mix the warm with the soft, to mix what exists in different planes of reality.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

What can the modernization pressure of Russian society be compared to? Only with the process of modernization of... Japanese society.

Can't be compared.

Let me remind you of the criterion for a truly scientific comparison.

"It is correct to compare two systems by this parameter provided that the other parameters of the systems coincide or differ only within the limits of statistical error."

Japan and Russia differ too much in many parameters: geography, climate, history, social organization, culture, religion, mentality, environment (the nature of relations with other countries and cultures). There is much less in common than differences.
So it is simply pointless to compare Russia and Japan, and not only in terms of the implementation of modernization.

And for dessert. I do not envy Japan and the Japanese, despite their supposed success in their modernization. Because the Japanese paid for this success by remaining, in fact, an occupied country, deprived of real sovereignty. I (I am sure, not only I) do not want us to have something like this... even if high technology is on every corner.
Let us remain a "dirty Mordor" in the eyes of our civilized partners... it would be enough if there was an opportunity to give these cultists a good thrashing the next time they try.

[Frettaskyrandi]

Because the Japanese paid for this success by remaining, in effect, an occupied country

Before this, there seemed to be some sound thoughts. But they ended with this maxim.

[Aviator_]

I work in the archive of the Central Committee of the All-Union Leninist Young Communist League in Moscow, and they bring me an interesting document about how in the universities of Central Asia the level of student involvement in scientific research work and technical creativity exceeds... 100 percent.

This is according to their reports, and it is clear that this simply cannot be, since in the country as a whole it is no higher than 5-7 percent and only in certain universities, for example, in KUAI, it is equal to 15-17.

Regarding attracting students to scientific and technical creativity (there were such interest groups in many universities - scientific and technical creativity of youth - NTTM). In principle, it is a good thing. But at MIPT they were not there on principle. There, starting from the 4th year, students in the graduation departments, which were located in the largest research institutes (TsAGI, LII, TsIAM, IOFAN, etc.) were already accustomed to professional scientific work. We did not have amateurism. And in ordinary technical universities, amateurism is quite acceptable. Well, and the fact that for the sake of beautiful reporting in the universities of Central Asia 100% of students ended up in NTTM, this is such an Asian tradition. Considering the fact that even at the Tashkent University at the Physics Department some subjects were taught in Uzbek. Not much, but there was such a thing. By the way, Kuibyshev Aviation is written as KuAI.

[Maks1995]

In general, all this reminds me of another 100-500 000 explanation. Only not about the evil West and Ukraine, but about
"Problems of modernization of Russia"
IMHO, leftist bloggers who talk about comprador power explain everything somehow more coherently and clearly.

And the main thing is that you can just chat as much as you like - it's democracy, who can forbid it? Just don't name specific actions and specific names. Otherwise, you'll meet the fate of Strelkov, Prigozhin, Navalny and the like...

[Andrey VOV]

And they shoved Girkin, the anal one, here... Zhenya the thug... For what?

[Illanatol]

Quote from Frettaskyrandi

Before this, there seemed to be some sound thoughts. But they ended with this maxim.

Try to refute it. There are still American military bases on Japanese territory, and the Japanese cannot do anything without permission from "America-san". Both Japan and Germany are on a short leash to the US and the Yankees, wiping their feet on the interests of these underdogs at any opportunity.

[Illanatol]

Quote from Frettaskyrandi

Only God can be the center of power alone. Of course, if you are a worshiper of the king's divinity, then the discussion is pointless. But if you have not yet completely fallen into the cult of the emperor, then you should understand this.

Give examples of alternative centers of real power in Russia, independent from the "Garant" and its immediate circle.

Addresses, passwords, contacts...

For the future: real power is in the hands of those who wield the levers of power. These are:
1. Finance, financial flows.
2. Main media (primarily TV in our conditions).
3. Power block: Armed Forces, special services and law enforcement agencies.

Which of the above is not under the control of the central government? With the help of the above tools, it is possible to have virtually unlimited power in our country.

P.S. There is no God, he is simply impossible in the form in which they try to present him.

[Knell wardenheart]

No, the example is actually bad. Because it is not clear from it on what basis exactly Lenin made such a conclusion. Just as it is not clear that Lenin was always right a priori just because he was… Lenin

Fanatics of the all-knowing Ilyich forget about the historical fact - Lenin incorrectly assessed the ability of his foreign colleagues to fulfill their part of the plan in the "world revolution", and also (considering the failure of the Soviet-Polish war and the "Red Finns") incorrectly assessed his own abilities of the young Soviet state to play at arm's length and on someone else's field. Of course, one can blame these failures on others - but, in general, these were details of the conceptual failure of the "grand plan", and it was necessary to thoroughly adjust it on this basis, so to speak. Was this done? It seems not - considering that Lenin saw Trotsky as his successor, who was pushing with all his might to finish off the already broken banquet.
So a Genius is not necessarily incapable of making mistakes, and big mistakes. For a thousand years, medicine has been praying to Hippocrates - and then some perverts started picking at corpses and came to the conclusion that Hippocrates, to put it mildly, was not right everywhere, like many antediluvian luminaries of medicine.
IMHO you should always test a wise man's teeth, because wisdom, like everything else in the world, is not eternal.

Regarding the "bad Russian worker" - there are two or three factors that come together. The "worker within production" factor - production organized through a woman with a foolish boss and no motivation quite logically devalues ​​the worker. The "worker as a labor element" factor - we must understand that labor productivity strongly depends on living conditions, eating habits, bad habits, the ability to competently load and unload. Hand on heart - we are NOT PERFECT with this, to put it mildly. It was, is and will be. Finally, the "worker as an individual" factor - everything is just not so great with this, because upbringing, mentality, habits, social environment, historical and social context are really putting pressure on people's brains, forming in them the wrong attitude towards themselves, money, work, goal setting.
We have never had a clearly healthy society and the level of pressure on people's brains has sometimes been off the charts. Based on the combination of these three factors, we have what we have - despite the fact that some (and even many) of us are literally killing themselves at work or are dragging out the labor process, the result is that we have always been inferior to the West in terms of productivity and the quality of labor force.

Thus, one of the commentators wrote to me that the collapse of the USSR was a consequence of the decay of the top of its party leadership.

Flesh of the flesh of society - power is the fruit of a hidden "case" of mentality, which circumstances allow to come out and stay in the light. They nurtured such a mentality - they received such power.

Vyacheslav Olegovich, you know, I respect you very much, and usually criticize Podymov for something like this, but you made a very epic swing, and from a very interesting side, without touching on the essence of the matter, and cut everything off. I understand the volume and that this is the "first in a series", but it seems to me that it would be worth at least indicating some analogies with the "restoration of the meiji" and "what was before", to build, so to speak, bridges. This is the experience that we really need to chew over and think about. I will wait for the continuation!

[DrEng02]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

We have always been inferior to the West in terms of labor productivity and the quality of labor force.

If it's not a secret - have you worked in the West? We are inferior only in terms of work organization, nothing more....

[DrEng02]

I don’t want to anticipate the author’s conclusions, but in my opinion, the reforms in Japan followed the path that was abandoned in Russia under Peter the Great - combining their own culture and foreign innovations...

[Illanatol]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Based on the combination of these three factors, we have what we have - despite the fact that some (and even many) of us are literally killing themselves at work or are dragging out the labor process, the result is that we have always been inferior to the West in terms of labor productivity and the quality of labor force.

And this doesn't matter at all. Do you think that the quality of labor and labor productivity in China were higher 20-30 years ago than in the USA? Exactly not. But production was moving at a tremendous pace from the USA to China. Why? Because these selective indicators are of no particular importance, the integral indicator is important - the cost of production. So what if the quality and productivity of labor are low, if the worker's labor itself costs pennies and the output can be cheaper and therefore competitive goods?

Therefore, modern "world factories" in the current conditions are countries such as China, India and the like, and highly developed "civilized" countries have entered a period of actual deindustrialization. Real production is increasingly moving to "third world" countries, since the production of most goods in developed capitalist countries is becoming less and less profitable, despite high productivity and work culture...

[Illanatol]

Quote: DrEng02

but in my opinion, the reforms in Japan followed the path that was abandoned in Russia under Peter the Great - combining their own culture and foreign innovations...

Peter acted under conditions of total emergency, the Swedes and Turks did not give much time to get going, the Japanese could afford to act without haste. And the Japanese were really helped, but who really helped Russia with innovations, with technology and loans?

[anclevalico]

Trust? Well, there, on the Planet of Pink Ponies, they don't give a damn about our trust for a long time. Everything is according to plan.

[Illanatol]

Quote: gsev

The problem is not to arrest the oligarch but to find him a better replacement. Khodorkovsky was jailed. The remains of Yukos began to work more productively? Shoigu and Rogozin are completely loyal to Putin. Is the result of their leadership positive?

In all cases - YES!
And it's not just about productivity, but also about who gets to enjoy the fruits of this "productive work."
But the main fruits still go to the state.
Compare the size of the federal budget revenues during the Yukos showdown with the size of the budget for this year. And everything will fall into place.

You don't like Shoigu? Well, compared to the army of the times of the "best defense minister" (aka "Pasha-Mercedes", personally devoted to EBN), the Russian army has become much cooler.