Syrian tank crews need to take advantage of Iranian and Iraqi colleagues

Recently, in connection with recent events in Syria, the shortcomings of domestic tanks. Many critics of Russian armored vehicles strangely forget that Syria uses equipment purchased by that country back in the 80s. So, a significant part of the fleet is made up of variants of the T-72 tank, the supply of which for export was allowed back in 1975. They do not even have a multi-layered tower reservation. And even the most "new" Syrian modernization of the "seventy-two" corresponds to the Soviet level of 1985.

To enhance the security of their tanks, the Syrians need to turn to the experience of their main ally, Iran. There, they creatively approached the process of modernization of the T-72С supplied by Russia. As a result, tanks equipped with dynamic protection of the first generation, received more lattice screens. This allows you to resist even such dangerous means of destruction as reactive anti-tank grenades with the so-called "tandem combat units." It is from them that the Syrian tankers suffer the most serious losses. Create, and even more to install such screens is not difficult, and it is not so expensive.

Iranian experience in protecting T-72 tanks

Another problem with the use of tanks in urban environments was the lack of protection of the anti-aircraft machine-gun unit — there is simply no way to lean out under the sniper's bullets because of the armor. This is what grenade launchers use. Although here everything is not so fatal. Tankers of Iraq, faced in time with similar problems, found an opportunity to solve it. They mounted protective shields on the commanding towers of seventy-fiftyies. This, of course, did not protect 100%, but allowed to reduce losses. And here you can get a very reasonable cost.

Protection of the anti-aircraft machine gun in Iraqi

Of course, this should be the concern not of those who literally do not get out of the fighting, but of the big commanders from the Syrian Ministry of Defense. Syria still has a lot of tanks, but experienced crews will always be in the price.

Comments

[Dangerous]

And what can the Syrian military themselves themselves not think of?

[Santa Fe]

Syrian tank crews need to take advantage of Iranian and Iraqi colleagues

Especially Iraqi.
Then the witty Assad will bend in a week

[Lord of the Sith]

You are a lover of Western values ​​would rather think about such things

[Pimply]

Well, in the first two pictures the decommissioned Israeli tanks are like time. Reserve of the first stage, reserve of the second stage. They stand, live out their life, having served their term. May 5, 2011, Kiryat Gat

[Lord of the Sith]

You are absolutely right. I just showed the pictures, but the text can be attached differently right? I want everyone to communicate without trollism.

[Pimply]

Absolutely.

[Vadivak]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Especially Iraqi.

Oleg then Abramov had to be laid out, they were filled up more than and in your picture T-55 and T-62

[Pimply]

Why did it happen?

[Sandov]

Pimply,
Yes, from the fact that worse than ours, definitely. If there was a leader in Iraq like Assad, the amers would have died like dogs, and would not have achieved their vile goals.

[Pimply]

Well, what nonsense-making nonsense?

[Sandov]

Pimply,
Do not discount the determination of the people and the state to uphold their independence. If the elite is bought and sold, or the people do not want to protect their corrupt elite, then the result will be Iraqi. Remember Korea and Vietnam, cool guys cheered up Amer’s killers.

[Pimply]

Oh, what a trouble you have with history. For starters, the UN troops fought in Korea, not the United States, but first of all it was a civil war. Kim Il Sung was saved by the fact that China and the USSR sharply opposed the DPRK. Where is the protection of the people? Although it is worth saying that at that time in South Korea, the regime was no better than the regime of Kem Il Sung, and the southern part of the country itself was clearly worse - the turning point went only in the 70s.
But Vietnam - which one was invigorated, you will not say - 48000 people died in 8 years against 2 million, and the Paris Agreements at the end. America was let down by the situation at home, internal changes and currents. Militarily, the States, if they had the task of capturing North Vietnam, would have done so. This was not the task. The states, by agreement, tried to comply with the pre-war situation - two countries, North and South Vietnam, in their previous positions. And North Vietnam tried to capture South. And, by the way, he sat down several times at the negotiating table, and, as a result, signed the Paris Agreements. This is when the US troops withdrew, they decided to have fun there further. And so ... Learn history, honestly.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Pimply

Kim Il Sung was saved by the fact that China and the USSR sharply opposed the DPRK

First, in comparison with China, the role of the USSR was vanishingly small.
Secondly, it was rather South Korea that was saved by US intervention with poodles. The Chinese have only restored the status quo by stopping US intervention.

[Pimply]

1. Except for aviation, which dramatically changed the situation.
2. And this is also true. Someone denies this. Although the troops of Kim Il Sung eventually got bogged down in the defense of the south, despite the significant advantage and active supplies from the USSR. The status quo did not particularly smell there - the new world leaders felt for each other.

[Lopatov]

Just delivery. As for the heroic Kim Il Sung, the Chinese have been steering there from the very moment of the intervention. At first, the Americans and the others were thrown back to the original pre-war ones, then negotiations began and the Chinese decided to get at least something for the fraternal North Korean state, moved to Seoul and really got stuck. But not in the defense of the south, they were draping, they ran into Canadians and Australians, who, in fact, on their way were accidentally taken to the rear for a vacation. Somewhere like that.

[Pimply]

"Just deliveries" are sometimes critical. As far as I remember, on the Busan bridgehead, they sawed mainly with the Americans and South Koreans,

[aksakal]

Quote: Spade

Secondly, it was rather South Korea that was saved by US intervention with poodles. The Chinese have just restored the status quo, stopping US intervention

- thirdly, even if the amers captured northern Vietnam, so what? Capture - not hold -)))) There are two big differences between capture and hold. In the end, it would all end with the same result - the shameful exile of the States.

Quote: Pimply

summed up the situation at home, internal changes and currents.

- hehe, is it really a huge stream of coffins in a star-striped wrapper to blame for those internal changes? I’m sure that when, after a stream of coffins from Korea, the same flow from Vietnam went almost without respite, the patience of the people burst ... The Vietnamese have the merit that in the United States such

Quote: Pimply

internal changes and currents.

? So this was precisely the goal of the North Vietnamese! They are well aware of certain features of the political structure of the States that have turned into their Achilles heel. Something you distort, dear -)))) You see, you have so much believed in your country that you are mentally exceptional, that for you the fact that narrow-eyed, in particular, Ho Chi Minh, can think (!) And even analyze - This is an exceptional discovery! -)))))). Transfer the fee for this discovery to the poor and have-nots, use it, this will help you avoid dangerous underestimations -))). So, just in case.

[Pimply]

Quote: aksakal

- thirdly, even if the amers captured northern Vietnam, so what? Capture - not hold -)))) There are two big differences between capture and hold. In the end, it would all end with the same result - the shameful exile of the States.

But what does Vietnam have, if the phrase is about Korea. And in the case of northern Vietnam, by the way, there was no task for the States to capture it, are you aware?

Quote: aksakal

- hehe, is it really a huge stream of coffins in a star-striped wrapper to blame for those internal changes? I’m sure that when, after a stream of coffins from Korea, the same flow from Vietnam went almost without respite, the patience of the people burst ... The Vietnamese have the merit that in the United States such

What a huge stream, why are you? The death toll in 8 years is 48000. The struggle for civil rights, emancipation, the popularity of leftist ideas is the secret to you. North Vietnam has lost up to 3 million people over the years.

Quote: aksakal

? So this was precisely the goal of the North Vietnamese! They are well aware of certain features of the political structure of the States that have turned into their Achilles heel. Something you distort, dear -)))) You see, you have so much believed in your country that you are mentally exceptional, that for you the fact that narrow-eyed, in particular, Ho Chi Minh, can think (!) And even analyze - This is an exceptional discovery! -)))))). Transfer the fee for this discovery to the poor and have-nots, use it, this will help you avoid dangerous underestimations -))). So, just in case.

Oh, dear man, where did you catch such fervent delirium? Why do you ascribe your flawed logic to me? Ho Chi Minh, the leader is far from stupid, more than once sat down with the Americans at the negotiating table. The situation was merged by the South Vietnamese, who clearly wanted to force their allies to engage in a counterattack. Americans are wildly tired of this. The result was the Paris Agreement. Have you heard about them out of the corner of your ear?

[aksakal]

Quote: Pimply

But what does Vietnam have, if the phrase is about Korea. And in the case of northern Vietnam, by the way, there was no task for the States to capture it, are you aware?

- I did not deny it, re-read the post. I denied that if the amers had the task of capturing northern Vietnam, this would change the outcome of the war. Even if such a task would be faced by the States, the final result would not have changed in any way. However, I do not deny that the States would be able to capture northern Vietnam. . But this would require several times more Amer expeditionary force, which would automatically increase losses. As a result, there would be absolutely the same result - the amers would leave Vietnam with a shameful flight.

Quote: Pimply

What a huge stream, why are you? The death toll in 8 years is 48000. The struggle for civil rights, emancipation, the popularity of leftist ideas is the secret to you. North Vietnam has lost up to 3 million people over the years.

- for the States with their electoral system of power and freedom of the press, and this is very painful, you know. I am silent about Israel, where a dozen at once in one explosion of dead soldiers leads almost to universal mourning and thoughts, "Do we really need this war? Is it worth it? I will not vote for this Government, which unleashed this war and is leading it so mediocrely," that so MUCH KILL our bloodshed! " -))))))) With this attitude, it is generally better to become a pacifist state of the Scandinavian type and surrender before the first shot -))))). 48 people is a very underestimated figure. Amers lost only over 000 aircraft there.
And yet - of these three million military losses - less than 10%! That is, the fighting soldiers with weapons. The rest are civilians! Children, old people, women! Do you know that the lion's share of casualties is from B-52 carpet bombing, including napalm bombing? Do you know that a very large part was simply poisoned by defoliants, which the amers abundantly watered the jungle with? I would be careful not to be proud of such a "loss", as you are proud - so save the remnants of my respect for you.

Quote: Pimply

. Americans are wildly tired of this. The result was the Paris Agreement. Have you heard about them out of the corner of your ear?

- if the amers saw the prospect of a final victory, they would not have doubted a minute, believe me! the whole history of amers suggests that it is a tough and very pragmatic people. They would have seen the prospect of deciding in their favor - they would not even have delayed a minute! This perspective simply did not exist, that’s the whole harsh prose of life.

[Pimply]

Quote: aksakal

- I did not deny it, re-read the post. I denied that if the amers had the task of capturing northern Vietnam, this would change the outcome of the war. Even if such a task would be faced by the States, the final result would not have changed in any way. However, I do not deny that the States would be able to capture northern Vietnam. . But this would require several times more Amer expeditionary force, which would automatically increase losses. As a result, there would be absolutely the same result - the amers would leave Vietnam with a shameful flight.

Not much, in fact. But the counter-guerrilla war, and even with the support of the opposing side by such a country as the USSR ... Although this is another matter. I am talking about the purely military side of things - the capture of North Vietnam.

Quote: aksakal

- for the States with their electoral system of power and freedom of the press, and this is very painful, you know. I am silent about Israel, where a dozen at once in one explosion of dead soldiers leads almost to universal mourning and thoughts, "Do we really need this war? Is it worth it? I will not vote for this Government, which unleashed this war and is leading it so mediocrely," that so MUCH KILL our bloodshed! "

Here you are a little mistaken. I lived in Israel for many years, and worked with both public opinion and the press on a professional basis. Exaggerated. Yes, losses are more perceptible. But not so radical, in fact.

48000 - not understated, but by name.

Quote: aksakal

And yet - of these three million military losses - less than 10%!

And again, nonsense. It is military losses of more than a million. And yes. if for you a surprise - in the war the majority of those killed in the vast majority of cases are civilians.

Quote: aksakal

- if the amers saw the prospect of a final victory, they would not have doubted a minute, believe me! the whole history of amers suggests that it is a tough and very pragmatic people. They would have seen the prospect of deciding in their favor - they would not even have delayed a minute! This perspective simply did not exist, that’s the whole harsh prose of life.

The Americans once again failed the horse on which they put.

[aksakal]

Quote: Pimply

Americans once again let the horse on which they put

- Well, you write as if the States have a bunch of horses and have a choice -))))).
In military conflicts, there are only two opposing sides, and it is these opposing sides who choose a powerful ally (or patron, as they like). In Vietnam, if Ho Chi Minh chose the USSR and China, then the States have no choice -)))). Therefore, the expression "put on the wrong horse" is incorrect here - there are no horses, there is one, and that one is lame -)))).
True. The States are trying to break through for themselves the right to choose "horses", as here on SABZh in Syria. But no one will give them this right -)))). Either you help the entire side opposing Assad (in short, the entire side opposing Assad is one horse, and the States miraculously saw a bunch of horses there and are trying to put their device on that very horse) or go through the forest.

[mazdie]

Of course, I wildly apologize for my ignorance, but how could the UN be part of the Security Council of the USSR that could fight in Korea?









77

[Lopatov]

However, this is true.

[Pimply]

But very simple. At that time and until the mid-70s, China was officially represented by the Republic of Taiwan, and not the PRC, and the USSR at that particular moment in time pursued a rather strange policy, and simply ignored Security Council meetings.

[ultra]

Quote: Sandov

If there was a leader in Iraq like Assad

It’s unlikely! The forces are too unequal! Like it or not, the American army is the most equipped in the world! In an open confrontation, the chances are zero, another thing is the partisan methods, they neutralize to some extent the difference in equipment and numerical superiority!

[Vadivak]

Quote: Pimply

Why did it happen?

Eugene read carefully, the picture is about him

[Pimply]

Vlad, well, you write that Abramsov more failed. From the text there follows a sequence of more than Iraqi tanks. I am wrong? But the Iraqi tanks were destroyed more at times. Or did I misunderstand?

[ikrut]

Quote: Pimply

Or did I misunderstand?

Apparently not correct. The author of the comment was: "More T-55 and T-62 have been filled THAN ON YOUR PICTURE." And not more at all, of course. IMHO.

[Pimply]

Then what is the logic here?

[mazdie]

Shove your CPAT back. Damn did not hold back.

[Gray-haired]

Long ago, the first such "prophets" of Assad's death were buried. In vain you take a queue for a stew at the USpinsky trough. The question of days is your stay in this world.

[Sasha 19871987]

let the guys hold on .... everything will be fine

[fuad-m7]

Quote: sasha 19871987

let the guys hold on .... everything will be fine

it’s easy to say when Russian RPGs and other weapons are delivered to terrorists, probably in Russia someone will become even richer !!!

[Lopatov]

Russian RPGs were delivered to Syria. This government force could not follow them.

[mazdie]

From me - because the Russian weapons are supplied, but not Russia!

[Lopatov]

Russian RPGs, like the Kornets, were supplied to Syria by the Russian state. Absolutely legal. But the Syrians could not track him.

"Vampires" used against the Syrian government forces or from their own warehouses, or received from Hezbollah - Hamas, which again supplied these RPGs by the Syrian government.

Now you understand?

[Rustam]

and here is the use of the RPG-29 VAMPIER by the rebels - And where do they get the villains from?

[Masterzserg]

Here are the critters !!!! Evil is not enough ...

[fuad-m7]

Quote: Rustam

and here is the use of the RPG-29 VAMPIER by the rebels - And where do they get the villains from?

Serdyukov sold !!!!

[Lopatov]

No, deliveries were made even before Serdyukov. Ask the Israelis, they are in the know.

[Pimply]

That's right. Delivery, EMNIP, was in 2002-2004.

[Lord of the Sith]

New video from Syria

[SSR]

I can’t even properly formulate my feelings for these scum that executed women and children .... crush and crush this bastard and their owners.

[Sandov]

Sith Lord,
For the video you big +. The Syrian army has gained simply invaluable experience in the fight against bandiuk in the city. Of course, it would be better not to have this Western aggression. Well, where to go to the poor peasant have to wet rats and toilets. Still to smoke them from bases in Jordan and Turkey.

[Lord of the Sith]

You're welcome

[Eric]

Mustard to these rats in their moves!

[andrejwz]

Quote: Dangerous

And what can the Syrian military themselves themselves not think of?

Apparently not. Yesterday I had to explain it to our friend from Kazakhstan

Quote: Dangerous

And what can the Syrian military themselves themselves not think of?

Apparently not.
Quote: aksakal
although the Syrian reports watch from the T-72 is not very pleasant and there is no feeling that this tank is the best

I’m not a tanker and have served for a very long time, but I remember very well the accumulator grills on those not many tanks in Afghanistan. On modern chronicles from the same Syria, our tanks resemble hackneyed collective farm tractors. I would have a look inside, I'm sure everything in arabesques is a dream of uchkuduk. Where is it about additional safety features in a city. Russian armor will withstand everything. The arrogance of the series - he rolled two glasses and went to break bricks with his head.

[Lord of the Sith]

The militants sing songs and then like *****

[Ivan Tarasov]

Allah could not stand it ...

[Piterkras]

They’ve sucked badly. Allah did not like

[Lord of the Sith]

And by the way, the article

Tavalkan mechanized division of the Republican Guard of Iraq in battle

The command of the mechanized division of the WG (Republican Guard) of Iraq was located approximately 40 kilometers north of the border with Kuwait, in the center of sector 7 of the US Army Corps. The Tavalkan division was rightfully considered one of the best divisions in the Iraqi army. The division fought valiantly during the Iraqi war with Iran and was the leading division during the invasion of Saddam Hussein in Kuwait. Its two mechanized and one tank brigade were armed with the most modern weapons available in Iraq, including 220 T-72 and T72M tanks and 280 BMP and BTR. On February 25, the division took up positions blocking the advance of US troops west of the Iraqi-Saudi oil pipeline about 70 kilometers from Kuwait City. Despite the massive air strikes, the division retained combat effectiveness and took up its designated positions. The main part of the division was in its position and was ready to delay the advance of the US 7th Corps on February 26, 1991.

http://btvt.narod.ru/2/taw.htm

[Hunghuz]

Gussky Olim (Jews) sandbags were tied to luminiv armor ......))) protection at RPGs and even large-caliber bullets) prada weight grew .....))) but live)

[nnz226]

No offense to the Syrians will be said, but the Arabs-ALL savages !!! How Israel drove them from 1949 of the year, they take envy! And the Arabs always had an advantage in people and technology! But the muetzin crawls out, begins to howl, and everyone becomes cancer in order to offer a prayer, and Israeli boots on their protruding asses! Not a single Arab country dating from the 11 century from R.H. neither invented nor produced, introduced nothing new. What is their year from Hijra ??? somewhere the 14 century turns out, here they are in the 14 century and are in mental development. And all interest in the Middle East is only because of the oil there. If there were no oil, who would have recalled about Iraq, Jordan, Saudis and other Bantustans of the Persian Gulf ?! Recall the story: there was Turkey for 18-19 centuries, and who remembered or can say something about its provinces (the foreign countries mentioned above)?

[Ragnarek]

Well, as an option6 cheap and cheerful you can. I support the question of the Dangerous - what are the Syrians clapping their ears for?

[aksakal]

Quote: Ragnarek

Well, as an option6 cheap and cheerful you can. I support the question of the Dangerous - what are the Syrians clapping their ears for?

- If you saw the latest reports from the KAA (he very well monitors the situation in Syria, respect to him), then the Syrians do not really need it all - they chose a different tactic - they rush about like crazy along the streets, shooting on the move. At full speed it rushes forward, makes three shots, immediately turns on the back one and rushes back at full speed, making a couple more shots along the way. I did not notice the difference between the reverse and forward speeds, although critics of Russian tank construction claim that the T-72 is in reverse at a speed of less than 2-3 km / h, which is an incredibly difficult task for Russian designers. From the video I see that the Syrian Teshki are rushing backwards, which are like crazy before.
It is much more difficult to get into a dynamic target among streets and buildings. Another thing is how effective is this tactic?

[Nayhas]

You made the right conclusion. There is no sense in running around the city on a tank, gradually turning it into "Stalingrad". The crew itself cannot detect the target, tk. the view is limited, so target designation should be received from infantry units, this tactic has been known since WW2, and best of all is a tank inscribed in the network receiving information from various sources from UAVs to infantrymen. The "courage" of the Syrian soldiers throwing their boxes to their fate has long been known ...

[Eric]

This tactic is correct; it has been worked out in Chechnya. And this technique is called a carousel, when a tank rolls out and quickly firing at an enemy, it leaves to replenish the BC, ideally there are three tanks, one shoots, the second is waiting and the third is charging. Thus, continuous fire exposure is ensured.

[pinecone]

The experience of Soviet tankmen obtained in street battles at the final stage of the Second World War,. when the Germans began to use RPG in droves as a means of vocational training ..

[mamba]

It was possible to purchase separately dynamic protection for the T-72. It is much cheaper to buy new tanks.

[opkozak]

Pots are disposable. Explode from the line of a heavy machine gun. There are two videos with an analysis of the Syrian tanker, an article about this was on Topvar. The side panels hang on three curtains and come off upon impact. They probably have few mechanics. The crews themselves repair the tanks. Well, savvy among the Arabs, better suited to the market business, and not to engineering. (studied with Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians). And look at the conditions under which they are fighting.

[Suhov]

Video. Flash and clap in the third minute. Is that what I think or ...?

[V. A.]

It seems that the dz worked ... I just didn’t see the shot ... Yes, this isn’t for you to ...

[Suhov]

I also didn't see a shot. But if you "freeze" the image for 3 minutes 01 seconds, then you can see the "glow" on the tank from which the shooting is carried out, then the sound of a shot or explosion. Output. The first tank was shot from above. And the flash itself is, most likely, an active protection worked.

[Eric]

Khe-Khe, look comrade on the second floor of the building next to the tank, there is a balcony! And a pen!

[Eric]

Or not...!? I don’t know, but why not?

[opkozak]

Yes. Something got into the tank. I wanted to add more. After the shot, the dust does not settle up to a minute. Almost nothing is visible from the tank. A mechanic driver should pass back or to the side to resume viewing. After analyzing the actions of the grenade launchers, I realized that it takes about 20 seconds to get a good aim. And all the hits captured on YouTube were mostly from stationary tanks. Tankers need to maneuver more.

[sonik-007]

The RPG-27 tandem ammunition hit the stern. From that and such "effect".

[sergei_e]

RPG29 on gurkhan blog has a parsing of this video

[Suhov]

From the barrel, a flash of fire, similar to a shot, "jumped out" earlier than the one from the tower up. And only after that, twenty to thirty seconds later a tanker got out from under the tank and rushed to the house. Where was he all this time? How could he survive ?! In gives !!! Well done!!!

[Igor]

hit RPG-29.

[opkozak]

Quote: cth; fyn

Why why, yes you saw their tanks? all tattered about houses and walls. I shouted about the house and you don’t have rubber-metal screens on board, rammed the wall, lost wings and KDZ from the front plate, etc., etc. All these gratings fly off before the battle.

There is no light in Daraya, probably problems with electric welding. Yes, and probably not enough spare parts. Tanks are really mostly hit from RPGs.

[fuad-m7]

[media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = OvHddydNQIA]
Syrian tank crew on T-72 tanks

[fuad-m7]

[media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = OvHddydNQIA]

[fuad-m7]

[media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = OvHddydNQIA]

[DEfindER]

Still, they thought up cool stories of doing military reports - a first-person war .. We would have to put such a DVR on each tank, so that later we could use it as a military allowance ..

[gizz]

Problems with welding - a Chinese generator will solve the problem.

[fuad-m7]

[media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = OvHddydNQIA]

[fuad-m7]

[media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = OvHddydNQIA]

[KOSMOS]

Yes, it’s not easy for tankers! Hold on!

[Svarog]

mamba,
Judging by the fact that there was no DZ at the beginning of the "conflict", but now it appeared, so they did. The problem is that the DZ protects 1 time .. In urban conditions, it is possible to accurately shoot several times in 1 place. In fact, you can make such lattices even on top.

[Alexey M]

Yes, it is not Iraqi experience that should be used, but ours in Afghanistan and Chechnya. and even better Israeli. Someone farted something against air raids, artillery
and then iron the tanks.

[knn54]

Usually tanks were placed at crossroads, and they were introduced into the city / village mainly so that they would break down fences and houses with their mass. They are not intended for actions among multi-story “skyscrapers” - no armor will protect him from a shot from a grenade launcher from above (the upper armor plate of the MTO, the rear of the tower)! And from the sewer manholes and basements - they were beaten directly under the tower .. To repel this threat, the tanks had to be accompanied by infantry, which, like during the Great Patriotic War, would destroy enemy “Fausters” with their fire. In this case, the tank should not overtake motorized rifles ....
The Russian armored vehicles began to hanker, and this is already unpleasant - no one "over the hill" will print that the tanks are not modern. Assad should think about who gives incompetent orders - fools or rats, both are dangerous.
PS An old, but not lost its relevance manual - "Offensive in the conditions of a settlement. Manual on the tactics of combined arms combat of foreign armies."

[aksakal]

Quote: knn54

In this case, the tank should not overtake motorized rifles ....

- I think it is unlikely to drive the Syrian infantry forward of the tank -)))). Earlier in the post, I noted how Syrian tank crews operate without infantry.
Such tactics can be effective if they throw scouts into the area of ​​militants who are strictly forbidden to unmask themselves with fire and who are well disguised, but who are exclusively engaged in detection and target designation. This requires good communication channels and experienced soldiers with good camouflage experience. I hope that the Syrians are working

[Galinanp]

aksakal KZ Today, 14:16
Totally agree with you.

[Galinanp]

knn54 UA Today, 13:48
I agree with all your arguments regarding the conditions of hostilities in the city. But not a big clarification, on the defeat of the tank by a shot of a granotomet from above. But isn’t the first shot at the transmission more effective, and not at the tower? The likelihood of immobility, and then the defeat is probably more.

[Suhov]

Once in a documentary about such a question table. How to quickly kill the enemy.
The American soldier fires a burst, and controls and corrects the direction of the barrel at the dust fountains that occur on the ground from bullets. In general, in the end, in this way (with the help of fountains), he points the barrel at the target.
Our soldier said that this approach is wrong. Shoot right at the target. Type of time may not be enough.

[CAPILATUS]

in addition, the ballistics of the bullets and the projectile are different and the farther to the target, the greater the difference. I think this method is not good

[Nayhas]

Well, in general, a lot of mind is not required to make an anti-cumulative screen. We have known about the efficiency of gratings for a long time and there is no special work to weld them on the body. You just need to make a decision, which is very difficult in the Syrian army.

[Suhov]

Why a lattice? It seemed to me that a sheet of iron should be welded on top of the armor (spaced protection). If the shell hits the center of the grill, then it will be able to reach the surface of the armor. And therefore it will work as efficiently as possible. Cumulative shells have such a concept as the focal length at which the damaging effect is maximum.
So iron and only sheets. Although the grill may look cooler.

[Nayhas]

The meaning of the lattice is that the probability of a contact fuse getting into the plane of a metal plate is relatively small, getting between the plates, the cumulative funnel is destroyed before initiation of detonation, with the further firing of the contact fuse, the cumulative jet is not formed, because funnel shape is destroyed. The distance between the plates is about 2/3 of the standard RPG grenade caliber, usually the caliber of the over-caliber part of the RPG-7 shot, about 73 mm, is the most common in all kinds of armed formations.

[Guhbers]

If I am not mistaken, the anti-cumulative screens - the Schürzen, were still put by the Germans on their tanks and RODS ... Including trellised ones!

[Guhbers]

I have a lot of fresh photos from Iraq and Afghanistan (for obvious reasons I cannot post them), as all the Pindoss "Strykers" and "Bradley" are hung with screens - "bars". On "Lavki" too, and in my opinion, even on the Abrams. Now I don't remember, but some kind of kit for modification with a "body kit", the Pindos released after they began to burn there ...

[DERWISH]

I don’t understand what tanks in a city do without infantry ???

[cth; fyn]

They covered the retreat of the infantry, just.

[cth; fyn]

Why why, yes you saw their tanks? all tattered about houses and walls. I shouted about the house and you don’t have rubber-metal screens on board, rammed the wall, lost wings and KDZ from the front plate, etc., etc. All these gratings fly off before the battle. and whoever says that, only Kars can convince me.

[dmitry46]

totally agree

[Vadivak]

Quote: cth; fyn

Only Kars can convince me.

By the way, where is this monster of tank science?

[cth; fyn]

By the way, where is this monster of tank science?

Maybe this news is not interesting to him. is she frankly a junk?

[Cynic]

Quote: Vadivak

By the way, where is this monster of tank science?

He calculates how the Abrams would prove themselves well in urban conditions.
Well it’s so banter.
But seriously, in my opinion, rarely does anyone watch everything and read before posting their comment.
The sacramental question was repeatedly asked why there are no screens and was repeatedly answered _ DZ breaks, and screens. If they hold on, how much trash will they have?
Farther
Why are they chasing? _ In the video, the Russian correspondent said: A new tactic for throwing rear groups into the rear! . In general, I threw off the landing and gang! Until you find yourself!
There are many more
Do not look, do not listen?

[Pere lachaise]

And why should the lattices be welded to the tank must be an order from above?
Do you want to live - be able to spin (s)

[d.gksueyjd]

Yes, ugly, but practical, cheap, reliable!

[SHOGUN]

I watched an interview with Syrian tankers not long ago. So they argue that the equipment is excellent, and the death of the crew is rare. Although there are a couple of problems with fixing the side shields, and pneumatic hoses (most likely hydraulics) But in general they are very pleased with the tank. Another question is whether they use it correctly?

[DEfindER]

And how do you imagine the tactics of using tanks in a city? I think the Syrians have the only way to fight the partisans, it is the use of high-speed and maneuverable qualities of the tank, nothing more, drove up and quickly hit the road, and so to take these monkeys with grenades to death .. The grates on the tanks will certainly help but not much if the fire is conducted from all directions, and I’m afraid, recently, the monkeys have appeared - the shaitan of the RPG-29 pipe is generally shitty, the losses of tankers will increase .. you need to think something, for example, use thermal imagers to see through walls ..

[aksakal]

DEfindER,
Alas, you still have to learn physics-))))). Thermal imagers do not see through walls. Thermal imagers are based on capturing the infrared spectrum of radiation, and these rays do not pass through walls - ((((. The effect is very simple - the warmer the object, the more infrared light it emits. Accordingly, warm people through the thermal imager will be clearly visible against the background of the surrounding colder But infrared light doesn’t penetrate walls.
X-rays penetrate well through the walls. Therefore, with the help of an X-ray, the brows are shone through to see what is going on inside the brow. But X-rays are very harmful, especially radiation so powerful that it can be seen through stone walls. There is an idea to shine through with a laser, but a laser in the visible spectrum of light also does not penetrate through walls. Then the idea arises to create a laser with a radiation spectrum close to X-ray, but relatively safe. The frequency is called "one terahertz", hence the name - terahertz laser. But the work is still at the development stage, there are many difficulties. How to focus such a laser in the right place and so on.
Shaving with the idea of ​​using Wi-Fi waves to shine through walls - these waves also wander through the walls, God forbid, my tablet catches Internet through three walls between the rooms from the modem. But there you can catch people only with the help of the Doppler effect (explain for a long time) when people move. And people always move, if only to breathe. The idea is good, but only where there is Wi-Fi Internet, and even when it works.
In general, all this is at the development stage.
In Syria, you just need a bunch of primitive small UAVs that can hang over a specific area for a long time with just cameras of good resolution and watch the militants from above. After analyzing the information received, which house the number of militants went into, it is possible to calculate by logic where they could be bored in this house - and they will definitely be bunched, or I don’t know people. Usually these are rooms with windows with a good firing area. There are already fewer windows to calculate. And then the scout (just well disguised as a bag of garbage and not posing as anything) can accurately figure out where they are praying to his god (if anything, Allah is not their god, and do not care what they think-)))) at least using a primitive directional microphone (it hits almost 1 km, it is in any movie studio). That's all, then you run to Israel, buy AP-AP special tank shells that break through the walls and explode inside the house indoors, and rush about on the tank through the streets, scorching such shells at already known targets. I don’t know, the Syrians really clap their ears, in my opinion, it is quite accessible and simple.

[Suhov]

Quote: aksakal

In Syria, you just need a bunch of primitive small UAVs that can hang for a long time ...

Right! Like a small helicopter with a camera and a navigator. The news recently showed how our specialists are used in Ingushetia. Anyway cheaper than a tank. I’m not talking about soldier’s lives at all.
The question arises why they don't use it. That, too long harnessed! Or those on whom the purchase and adoption of these funds for armament depends (I'm talking about UAVs) - they do not "ride" in tanks in the city, and those who are in the tank - the purchase does not depend on them?

[mankurt]

And on the UAV there is a sound sensor in the words "Allah Akbar" with a Saudi or Yemeni accent.

[aksakal]

Quote: mankurt

And on the UAV there is a sound sensor in the words "Allah Akbar" with a Saudi or Yemeni accent.

-))))))))))))))) /

Quote: Sukhov

The question arises why they don't use it. That, too long harnessed! Or those on whom the purchase and adoption of these funds for armament depends (I'm talking about UAVs) - they do not "ride" in tanks in the city, and those who are in the tank - the purchase does not depend on them?

- I think, narrowing of consciousness -)))). This is when you saw a very dangerous predator and rushed away. And your consciousness is occupied only with how to make your legs move even faster, moving your mortal body away from the beast ... And in your hands, something is hanging out and prevents you from running. Bah, this is a large-caliber drill type rifle with explosive bullets - one shot, just to get into the case - and there is no beast! But the realization of a better way out of a meeting with a predator comes after he escaped. The trouble is that they usually do not run away, usually the drill only remains intact, the rest is neatly gnawed -)))).
I think the Syrians now have this situation. Not before the introduction and not before the experiments - (((((

[Ivan Tarasov]

Tanks need not only reliable protection (dynamic, plus lattices), but also more powerful weapons.
Before the advent of Armata, with a 160 mm short-barreled shotgun (for fighting in urban conditions), the option of using 125 mm shells equipped with white phosphorus should be worked out.

[sergei_e]

White phosphorus is prohibited. Better ammunition with arrow-shaped striking elements.

[Ivan Tarasov]

Banned?
In that case, why did the USA use white phosphorus widely in Iraq?
Or, can Americans, but not others?
A precedent has been created, no one has condemned - therefore, the ban is not relevant.

[Pimply]

Because not all countries have signed the convention, and far from all situations, the use of white phosphorus is prohibited.

[Lopatov]

White phosphorus is not prohibited. Moreover, it is used by all the armies of the world. As an initiator in incendiary ammunition and as smoke-generating in artillery shells.

Ban of white phosphorus - liberoid delirium

[Pimply]

There is a UN convention of 1980, which very vividly describes the methods of its prohibition and application. For the rest - I agree

[vilenich]

Quote: sergei_e

better ammunition with arrow-shaped striking elements

It is unlikely that they will be effective for a 125-mm tank gun with its ballistics.

[Lopatov]

Why? The fuse on the buckshot, and no problem. To get around the convention, you can adopt a round buckshot shell, like the Americans

[Suhov]

Quote: sergei_e

better ammunition with arrow-shaped striking elements

The arrow-shaped form of the projectile is to save something, such as energy, or the material of the striking element. To increase the efficiency of the projectile, in the sense of increasing its damaging effect, the mass of the projectile (direct dependence) is more important, and even more important is the velocity of the projectile (more precisely, the square of the speed). This is physics from a school course.

[atalef]

Quote: sergei_e

white phosphorus is prohibited.

Incendiary ammunition with white phosphorus is prohibited (Russia, by the way, has not acceded to the convention (Lighting and noise ammunition containing white phosphorus are allowed)

[Lopatov]

Which document is prohibited?

[Pimply]

1980 United Nations Convention on the Prohibition or Limitation of Conventional Weapons

[Lopatov]

I specifically searched for phosphorus and for shells with GGE. Have not found.

[Pimply]

"Recalling also that it is prohibited to use methods or means of warfare which are intended to cause or may be expected to cause extensive, long-term and serious damage to the natural environment;"

And further, appendix three.

http://www.pavlodar.com/zakon/?dok=04324&uro=11003

[Megadan]

"In the distant 3001, the infidels will leave the planet Earth
and now only terrorists rule the world ... "
in general, see for yourself)

[bremest]

T-72 like any tank is not designed for fighting in the city. His element is a field, tank battles, tank attacks on a well-fortified enemy defense. In the city, the tank is easy prey for the grenade launcher. BMPT - Terminator is good for the city.

[Phantom Revolution]

Nobody tested it in the city, so far this is a myth. Or is the t-72-based Terminator case less vulnerable than the t-72 casing?)

[Ivan Tarasov]

For battle in urban conditions, the Terminator is not suitable.
We need a well-protected BO, with a powerful gun (in order to destroy a one-story house of 150 sq.m with one shot), which has the ability to fire on a hinged path (using a variable charge, plus an elevation angle of up to 80). To do this, develop a 160 mm smoothbore gun (25-27 klb), projectile weight 60-65 kg (15-20 kg BB), automatic loader, charges 2, ballistic firing range at an angle of 45 -10000 / 400m.

[Pimply]

Not really. Now the tanks are actively honing under urban battles, and history shows that there is no replacement for the tank in the urban environment yet.

[Aaron Zawi]

Pimply
Hone, don’t hone, but in the city a tank is a means of supporting infantry and sappers who lead the main party. The field is rather the opposite.

[Pimply]

Undoubtedly. But in Scheme, without tanks and volcanoes, we would clearly have more headaches 8)

[Aaron Zawi]

Pimply
In Jenin, they also did not interfere, but most importantly with legs.

[Pimply]

Jenin is a separate topic there. We took Shchem, and my friend from Golan, Jenin, had 6 dead in their company. We had two conditional "refugee camps", and there - half the city. And due to the fact that the local bearded children did not let the civilians out of the camp stupidly, the tanks there were mainly a restraining force, no more

[Suhov]

Quote: Pimply

no tank replacement in urban environment yet

Why?
The armor and other means of protection of the tank are means of protection (I apologize for some tautology, but somehow it doesn’t work out otherwise). Cannon, RPG, mine, etc. - means of attack. Between them is constantly a competition. Moreover, the success of either side is temporary, but the competition itself is costly.
And maybe there is such a solution to the problem in this case (city conditions) which was already mentioned above. First, quietly identify the enemy (set a target), for example, using an UAV, and then quickly “fly up” and destroy (a tank, infantry fighting vehicle, helicopter or just a rocket) and immediately dump it where it’s exactly calm.
It’s not a matter of riding around the city on a tank when in the city they shoot from RPGs.

[Pimply]

Because in some cases, a tank is a cover for you, an offensive weapon, a ram, and much more. Multifunctional.

[Bener]

But the point is not that the 85th tank. And in that 1965om all these problems were solved in the T-64 (remotely controlled machine gun, reliable on-board screens, etc.). And against tandem ammunition, there are also options for remote sensing.
The problem is that when creating the T-72 in 70-this neglected everything.

[Goldmitro]

<<< To increase the protection of their tanks, the Syrians need to turn to the experience of their main ally - Iran. >>>
Is Russia not an ally of the Syrian army, which is fighting off jihadists mercenaries from all sides, trained by Western instructors and armed with the most modern weapons? To whom, to whom, and to our enterprises that have developed and produced Syrian tanks, it is much faster to develop, manufacture and DELIVER Syrians additional tank protection kits in urban conditions. The Syrians are hardly likely to be able to do this quickly on their own in practically war conditions. This would be another REAL ASSISTANCE to Russia in confronting global evil, sweeping independent countries one after another.

[cooper]

Quit "smoking" far from all DZ protects against tandem ammunition, and the screens are only from RPG7. In Syria, another calico, another weapon. Here the tanks are burning, regularly.

[Thunderbolt]

so what was that? and there is ......

[Krilion]

again tanks in the city and infantry can not see ....: facepalm:

[zemlyak]

Constantly refer to the experience of the Second World War. and the storming of Grozny? The same tanks, all under tracing paper

[Nesvet Nezar]

The article is not very.

[tank64rus]

It turns out very interesting. Terrorists have super-grenade launchers, while Syrian tankers have nothing. We do not have KAZT "Arena", Drozd "Drozd-2" "Zaslon", new reactive armor, aerosol container for armored objects, remotely controlled anti-aircraft machine gun installation, installation rocket flamethrowers, etc. About BMPT and there is nothing to say there she would have broken firewood. Or we want to send a ship with anti-aircraft systems in Libya and prohibit unloading it. Strongly in Russia there is a pro-American lobby. We are waiting. so that after Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, all these lads, along with the Taliban, will be on our borders.

[Guhbers]

And where did you see all these protection systems on our tanks (not exhibition models)? "Drozd" has not been produced for a long time ... "Drozd-2" if my memory serves me, it never went into production ... Arena and Zaslon are good, of course, but they have a decent cost ... and IMHO about mass use on tanks are out of the question here: ((And it is unclear how they cope with RPG-29 and RPG-30 ... An aerosol container is good only against ATGMs and even with a laser guidance channel ... against RPGs it will not help anything ... And the dynamics - if the charges for it are brought up in time, it's already good ... and you are talking about the "new DMZ" ... Ehh ...
What I like about the Pindos is that it doesn't take much time from the idea to the MASSIVE use of "products" ... but we have great ideas, but often only on paper and at exhibitions: ((((

[qwert]

EVERYONE WHO WISHES TO COMBAT WITH GOGGLES!
Well, damn it, read this before you argue
http://topwar.ru/23382-platnye-internet-trolli-na-sluzhbe-gosudarstva-izrail.htm
l

And then the nerves here are wasted