Why Kazakh Nationalists Don't Like Russia

130
Why Kazakh Nationalists Don't Like Russia
Modern urban Kazakhs sometimes indulge in nostalgia for the nomadic life as they imagine it


In Kazakhstan, many people do not like Russia and treat Russians, in particular Russians, with disdain. This is expressed in many phenomena, among which we can recall the so-called "language patrols" that swept across Kazakhstan in 2021, when nationalists in a very aggressive form demanded to speak only Kazakh. Such actions were condemned by the President of Kazakhstan Kassym-Jomart Tokayev at the XXXI session of the Assembly of the People of Kazakhstan in late April 2022. One of many such examples. But now we are not talking about the facts of the negative and often aggressive attitude of Kazakh nationalists towards Russia, but about the reasons for this.



In my observations, there are strong difficulties in naming the reason for such an attitude, including among Kazakh nationalists. They sometimes refer to the fact that they need to build a Kazakh national state. But if you think about it, their hostility to Russia is completely illogical, since no one has done more for the Kazakhs, their national development and the creation of their national state than Russia.

Thus, a contradiction. Kazakhs have always enjoyed Russia's help, support and even direct participation, but they treat it negatively and even hostilely.

This is so general because, according to my observations, almost all Kazakhs share the idea that their national development should be without Russia, outside of Russia, bypassing Russia, and on this soil a radical wing grows in the form of Kazakh nationalists, who preach hostility almost openly.

There must be a reason for this contradiction. And a very compelling one, even, one might say, obvious. This is of great importance to us, since further development of this idea threatens to turn Kazakhstan into a hostile state, which may, under certain conditions, lead to a forceful resolution of the conflict. Kazakhstan, of course, will not survive. But until it comes to that, we must try to resolve the problems verbally.

My formulation of the reason is this: Kazakhs are unable to recognize their true history, they make up various, extremely idealized and embellished fables about it, believe them as if they were the truth, and then it turns out that the Russians have destroyed their ideal world, a kind of “nomadic Eden” to which they hope to somehow return. This is where the root of hostility grows.


Concentrate of Kazakh national-patriotic popular prints depicting a lost nomadic paradise

Well, now some explanations.

Endless circling across the steppe and backwardness


The cornerstone of this Kazakh worldview is the myth that nomadism is freedom. In fact, there was no trace of freedom here.


And this is the reality of nomadism. The photo is modern, taken in western Mongolia, where Kazakhs still roam

Firstly, a horse is needed in the steppe. A person on foot will not go far; he will not have enough strength and a supply of food and water, especially water, to walk the entire steppe. But even on a horse, you need to know where to go, because a horse needs grass and a clean, fresh watering place. All movements across the steppe are strictly tied to water sources: rivers, streams, springs, wells.

Secondly, a nomad with cattle is also tied to water sources, because the cattle needs to be watered, and to pastures, because the cattle needs to be grazed. So, watering places and pastures are not ownerless, they belong to someone and were generally distributed between the tribes, clans and subclans of the Kazakhs. Each clan or subclans did not move where they wanted, but through the watering places and pastures that belonged to them: from wintering to summering, from summering to wintering. These were ring, figure-eight or loop-shaped routes. The entire Kazakh steppe was, as it were, lined with these rings and loops, along which clans and subclans moved with their households and cattle. They were established for a long time, for decades, and rarely changed. This system was so stable that experts in it could say exactly where a particular clan was at a certain time, whether it was standing in a tract or going to the next pasture.

The life of nomadic Kazakhs was not a free roaming of the steppe, but an endless circling along the same routes, which could remain unchanged for decades and probably centuries. From year to year, all their life from birth to death, from generation to generation.

Of course, I am exaggerating a bit, since Kazakhstan is large and in some areas there were more favorable conditions. But in general, and this applied to most Kazakhs, natural conditions forced the Kazakh nomad to move, because stopping threatened the depletion of forage and watering places, loss of livestock and death.

This had important consequences. The Kazakhs did not accumulate anything except livestock, since the carrying capacity of horses and camels in the economy was always limited.


A wealthy family roams with camels. But even the camels are barely enough to carry the most essential belongings

And this sharply limited their cultural development, since they were, in particular, deprived of the opportunity to accumulate knowledge. You can’t take a library with you. Unnecessary things were thrown out first during any economic cataclysm, which happened periodically, for example, with jute. For the same reason, up until the 1930s, the Kazakhs were a people who were overwhelmingly illiterate, since in their economy there was neither the opportunity nor the sphere of application of literacy. An illiterate people who do not accumulate their cultural achievements will in any case be backward, no matter what natural talents they have. This was determined by geographical determinism in its concentrated form.

Why did the ancestors of the Kazakhs choose the steppe with all the disadvantages and hardships of nomadism? In my opinion, for safety reasons. Good places had to be constantly fought for, and there were no particular contenders on the steppe, because life in the steppe required specific skills. There is nothing for a foot army to do in the steppe, and a cavalry army must know how to move across the steppe. If an enemy who does not know the steppe appears, you can choose not to fight, but to submit verbally, or simply flee for a while to hard-to-reach areas. For this reason, the most terrible enemies of the Kazakhs were the Dzungars, who were nomads themselves.

Mud and cold


In addition to all this, the life of the nomads was very hard and unhealthy, much harder than the life of the Russian peasants. Now the city shala-Kazakhs draw pictures of clean yurts under white felt mats, standing in the middle of a pastoral paradise with tall grass and a couple of horses in the distance.

In fact, the cattle quickly ate the grass in the pasture, especially around the aul, where the young animals were kept, trampled the ground. In dry and hot weather - omnipresent dust. When it rained - the dust turned into sticky mud. In addition to this, manure and droppings, which mixed with mud and dust. In early spring, when the snow had mostly melted, and there was no grass yet, the steppe turned for a time into a kingdom of thick, greasy mud. Such are the natural and geographical conditions.


Cattle next to a yurt


This is a modern photo of Kazakh nomads in Western China. The same thing: cattle, yurts, food utensils - all together and nearby

The situation was made worse by the impossibility of washing and washing clothes. While a Russian peasant almost never went far from water, a river or at least a stream, the Kazakhs often had to leave rivers and live in low-water areas, where almost all the water was spent on watering the cattle. The second reason for the lack of washing was the extreme lack of fuel. There was some, like reeds or saxaul, but not much and not everywhere, so they often used dung or dried manure. This was barely enough for cooking and minimal heating.

In addition, it was almost always cold. Even in summer, cold nights are quite possible, especially in semi-desert areas. At all other times of the year, cold was a constant companion of the Kazakhs. Comfort depended heavily on the quality of the yurt's covering.


Also the reality of nomadism. A small yurt with a rather thin felt mat. And all this for several people.

Only the rich had warm yurts, which they covered with a second felt mat in winter and lined the sides with specially prepared reed mats. The poorer people, whose yurt was worse, with a leaky felt mat, had to freeze. The cold, combined with a shortage of fuel and poor heating, forced them to constantly wear warm clothes, which were worn out to an incredible state. Dust, dirt, sweat from an unwashed body, manure and excrement, and to top it all off, fatty food - this is how the recognizable image of a Kazakh nomad arose, with his unsanitary habits, which could be smelled a mile away.




In both old photos, Kazakhs are wearing warm clothes, despite the summer season.

I would like to point out that these are far from all the “charms” of the traditional Kazakh nomadic life. Today’s urban Kazakhs, even the most ardent nationalists, would not be able and would not want to live in such conditions. And I would like to emphasize once again that such a life is not an indicator of the depravity of the people, but a harsh and insurmountable consequence of those natural and climatic conditions in which the Kazakhs lived for centuries and even millennia, from the time when they learned to live in the steppe. They say that this was about 6 thousand years ago.

It is difficult to verify, since nomads leave almost no traces or archaeological sites behind.

Kazakhs do not recognize their ancestors


Kazakhs, and especially the ideologists of Kazakh nationalism, know all this very well. But we agree that it is very difficult to admit, difficult to agree with. Especially in comparison with Russians.

The Russian steppes were conquered, but in a completely different way. They created small fortresses with grain reserves in convenient places, from where cavalry and even infantry units could operate within a certain radius. The fortresses were located in a line, cutting off parts of the steppes. In order for the nomads to be able to roam in these areas, fenced off by lines, it was necessary to ask permission from the Russian administration. Then the fortresses were transferred to self-supply of crops nearby, then villages arose in the distance, with crops, and so on. A settled area with a permanent population arose. A network of such areas, connected by roads, was thrown onto the steppes. The nomads now found themselves inside this network, and over the years they were increasingly constrained. Already in Soviet times, a great turning point occurred and the general transfer of nomads to a settled way of life, mainly on the basis of a Russian-type economy, with some variations.

That's when you have on the scale your own ancestors in the form of the illiterate and unwashed nomads who were forever circling the steppe, and the newcomers Russians who in a century created in the same steppe a productive economy capable of feeding everyone, that's where a sharp hatred of... Russians arises. In fact, this is an unthinking and unhealed resentment for your ancestors, who turned out to be like this.

This is such a painful issue for the Kazakh worldview that it is carefully disguised and embellished with numerous stories about formidable khans, wise biys, heroic batyrs, primordial steppe justice and other nomadic idylls. These are, in essence, epics, which are no more true than Russian epics. But the Kazakhs believe in them as the truth and demand the same faith from others. They definitely want to escape from their not-so-good-smelling ancestors into these beautiful inventions and are very sensitive and aggressive to doubts about the veracity of these legends.

You can't forbid fooling around with epics. We also had a period of fascination with such folklore. But those Kazakhs who believed in these epics, legends, myths completely and unconditionally, have a different kind of resentment. It turns out that the Russians came and... destroyed their steppe, nomadic idyll. Now that's the basis for hostility.

They may say that Kazakh nationalists have sold out to the West. Yes, conscience can be sold for dollars, but there must be some basis for this. A Kazakh nationalist who takes a bag of dollars from the US embassy must still believe that he is making the right choice, have arguments and a certain logic for this. In comparison with the objective state of affairs, both his arguments and logic are, of course, incorrect, but he himself should not doubt his subjective logic. It is precisely from this consideration that the problem of finding the point at which Kazakh nationalists turn down the wrong path arises, which, judging by the similar experience of Ukraine, can end in a huge cemetery.

It is precisely in my opinion that the myth of the nomadic paradise and in general any embellishment of one's historical past is the very point of turning onto the path of destruction. And in general, as the President of Czechoslovakia Tomas Masaryk said:

"The great cannot be false."

Kazakhs will have to eventually come to terms with the real picture of their people's past, no matter how unsightly it may be, understanding that this is a consequence of a choice made in very ancient, prehistoric times, and a special, very unfavorable set of natural and climatic conditions from which it was impossible to escape without outside help.
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  1. +37
    7 November 2024 04: 59
    "nomadic Eden" to which they hope to return someday
    And to your health. As they say: a flag in your hands, a drum around your neck, an axe in your back and an electric train to the right. Enough - live there in your Asias as you want, just don't bother us.
    1. +26
      7 November 2024 09: 38
      The Presnogorsk (Tobol-Ishim) defensive line was created in 1752-1755. It began from the Omsk fortress on the Irtysh and went west to the border with the Orenburg province. It was built along the border with the Dzungars. The Oirats became known as Dzungars starting in the XNUMXth century.
      Where are the Kazakhs with their "thousand-year" history? Where are the cities that they call originally Kazakh (i.e. founded by Kazakhs)?
      Until recently, Kazakhstan was the leader in "decommunization" (compared to 404), with the difference that toponyms with Russian names were also renamed.
      27.10.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX Nazarbayev signed a decree on Kazakhstan's transition to the Latin alphabet
      The same decree approved a new alphabet based on the Latin script. It is expected that Kazakhstan will abandon Cyrillic by 2025. Nazarbayev had previously explained the change of alphabet by "political reasons."
      So, someone in this world really needs the inflating of Kazakh nationalism...
      1. +2
        15 November 2024 14: 32
        There are no Kazakhs - it is an artificially created state. Open the maps of the 17-18th centuries - there it is clearly indicated "Kyrgyz-Kaisaks". This is where the fairy tale about Kazakhstan can be closed.
        1. +1
          15 November 2024 20: 43
          Quote: Timon2155
          it is clearly stated "Kyrgyz-Kaisaks"

          Ask yourself - Who are the Kirghiz-Kaisaks, Kalmyks, Dzhugars. Who is Kuchum and where is he from?
          1716 on the Irtysh River, on the outskirts of the Dzungar Khanate, a new stronghold - the Omsk fortress
          1. +1
            15 November 2024 20: 49
            The point is that Kazakhstan as a state did not exist. There were scattered Kazakh and Kyrgyz clans. They roamed the steppe and did not have their own state. In general, they were called by the collective name "Kirghiz-Kaisaks". Who they were from and where they were from is another question.
    2. +21
      7 November 2024 10: 02
      "The smaller the inhabitants, the more majestic the empire seems to them." Stanisław Jerzy Lec.
    3. +11
      7 November 2024 13: 16
      Will they live in peace? Or will Russia first have to pay them compensation (and each time the compensation will be recalculated in their favor).
      Balts - oh, live as you want, but you are in NATO, it's not good somehow
      Ukraine - live as you want, you got a hostile state
      What about Kazakhstan too?
      1. +4
        8 November 2024 09: 01
        No one has done more for the Kazakhs, their national development and the creation of their national state than Russia.

        According to Machiavelli, it is human nature to hate someone who does you good. For this proves the helplessness of the recipient.

        What is given to a slave can never be freedom. That is why it is always accompanied by an eternal label as a memento of the gift… a tattooed number from a concentration camp… steel teeth after torture…
        1. +4
          10 November 2024 05: 46
          This is the nature of monkeys. Monkeys despise those who give them (in their understanding, give them) food and everything else. For them, this is a sign of weakness. And we, no matter how you look at it, are primates. Only humans have overcome monkeys in their development by learning to share.
          It is not surprising that many are drawn back. To nature.
    4. +6
      8 November 2024 12: 06
      And to your health. As they say: a flag in your hands, a drum on your neck, an axe in your back

      It's not that simple. The entire north of Kazakhstan is originally Russian land, developed by our ancestors, allocated by the Bolsheviks to Kazakhstan, which later went to today's Kazakhstan. Originally Russian people still live on this territory.
      The Kazakhs are nomadic tribes who lived in the territory below the Russian lands and historically have no right to lay claim to Russian lands.
      So, if Kazakhstan pursues a policy of extreme nationalism, it may face a situation similar to the one that developed in Ukraine 30 years after the collapse of the USSR.
    5. +1
      8 November 2024 12: 13
      Quote from Queen_Annes_Revenge
      "nomadic Eden" to which they hope to return someday
      And to your health. As they say: a flag in your hands, a drum around your neck, an axe in your back and an electric train to the right. Enough - live there in your Asias as you want, just don't bother us.

      Then people like you will be surprised - "Where did the Americans or Chinese come from???!! "©
  2. +28
    7 November 2024 05: 14
    If it weren't for the Russians, they would still be drowning in dung and eating gophers...
    1. +12
      7 November 2024 05: 36
      Kazakhs will eventually have to accept the real picture of their nation's past, no matter how unsightly it may be.
      Of course! This is not like digging the Black Sea. winked
    2. +26
      7 November 2024 07: 13
      Let's be honest - not the Russians, but the Soviet government. Under the Tsar, the government didn't really care about the welfare of the Kazakhs. Just like the rest, even the Russians themselves...
      1. +16
        7 November 2024 07: 50
        Under the tsar, the authorities didn’t really care about the welfare of the Kazakhs.
        Once, during WWI, they decided to call them up for rear work and got the rebellion of Imangeldy Imanov, a “fighter against tsarism.”
        1. +1
          13 November 2024 12: 35
          Hello, Sergey! I read this article recently, lately I have no time at all. And then I also happened to watch Budanbai on the Internet. As many as several stories (I also haven't seen him for a long time) I learned about the interesting views of some Kazakhs. Orenburg, Omsk, Novosibirsk, Astrakhan, ..... Saratov, Tyumen am am am ---These are all cities of Kazakhstan, on the lands of Kazakhstan. And Altai is also Kazakhstan. And Mongolia. I was impressed.
          1. +1
            13 November 2024 20: 05
            Orenburg, Omsk, Novosibirsk, Astrakhan, ..... Saratov, Tyumen am am am ---These are all cities of Kazakhstan, on the lands of Kazakhstan. And Altai is also Kazakhstan. And Mongolia. I was impressed
            Well, it's from the same opera that the Sumerians dug the sea. The handwriting alone is idiotic. How much did Anna Leopoldovna have to love the Kazakhs to order to build a fortress for them on the Or River (Orenburg) back in 1735! Now Orsk is there. Who is Budanbai? Is he the one who talks about the "great Kazakhs"? By the way, to protect the road from Orenburg (1743) to Samara, Empress Elizabeth Petrovna settled Kazan Tatars there, giving them significant tax breaks. And there were no Kazakhs there at all, they would come once a year with a flock, and then disappear again - nomads.
            1. +1
              13 November 2024 20: 31
              Sergei hi Budanbai is a blogger from Kazakhstan. He does not agree with the theory of such fantasies. wink criticizes them. He is for friendship with Russia, for Russians and the Russian language.
              Macron Will Make Nigeria Out of Kazakhstan

              These are his words, but perhaps the quote is not quite so. Today an article about Kazakhstan was published in ANALITIKA. And I liked this article. I didn't know anything about such details before
              1. 0
                13 November 2024 20: 47
                The funniest thing is that Kazakhstan's main wealth is its mineral wealth. And it hasn't belonged to this country for a long time, everything is under foreign companies. They are following the path of South Africa, which also doesn't own its mineral wealth.
                1. +1
                  13 November 2024 20: 55
                  First place in the world in chromium reserves, uranium in 2nd place, zinc in 3rd place in the world. There are many other significant things there besides this.
                  do not belong ---- Aviator-

                  That's what I'm talking about. They screwed it up. And they're not happy with Russia.
      2. -1
        7 November 2024 14: 12
        Quote: paul3390
        Let's be honest

        Come on, answer honestly - WHY was the sovereign state of the Kassar created already 20 years after the THIEF, and even on part of Russian lands, WHY was the people, history, etc. invented?!
        WHO asked, rebelled, demanded, etc.?
        iotas...
        1. +7
          7 November 2024 18: 49
          Because they sincerely tried to make People out of them... With a happy future. Like everyone else. It didn't work out, of course - but the intentions were good.
          1. +2
            8 November 2024 12: 43
            Quote: paul3390
            Because they sincerely tried to make People out of them... With a happy future.

            Why at the expense of Russians? Didn't Russians deserve happiness?
            Quote: paul3390
            It didn't work out of course, but the intentions were good.

            to hell their intentions and they should be condemned as for crimes
        2. +3
          8 November 2024 01: 56
          With all due respect, the KaSSR is Karelian Autonomy within the RSFSR! And it was not a union republic for long, and even then it was called Karelo Finnish SSR.
          1. +2
            8 November 2024 12: 44
            Quote: non-primary
            With all due respect, the KaSSR is Karelian Autonomy within the RSFSR!

            Quote: non-primary
            With all due respect, the KaSSR is Karelian Autonomy within the RSFSR!

            no, Karelia is the KFSSR.
            And Ka - so as not to confuse it with Ki.SSR hi
            1. +1
              9 November 2024 01: 11
              KFSSR is the period from 1940 to 1956. Then until the collapse of the USSR it was KASSR, after that simply RK!
    3. +14
      7 November 2024 07: 59
      Good day!!! Let me clarify with your permission, if the Russian Tsar-Father had deigned to call them not Kyrgyz-Kaisaks, but for example some Tumen-Oiraturs, they would now be shouting at the top of their lungs about the "great" Tumen-Oiratur civilization, the reason is clearly stated, they had nothing of their own!!! The Mongol Empire, or rather the Golden Horde, had its capital Sarai-Batu on the Volga, and not in the steppes
      1. +5
        7 November 2024 11: 54
        What does the Golden Horde and the steppes have to do with it? There were 4 uluses in the Mongol Empire: the ulus of Kublai (Yuan kingdom), the ulus of Jochi (Golden Horde), the ulus of the Hulagoids (the territory of modern Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Azerbaijan, the Middle East), the ulus of Chagatai (Central Asia).
        1. +2
          7 November 2024 17: 37
          Well, modern Kazakhstan seems to have been part of the ulus of Jochi.
          1. +2
            7 November 2024 17: 50
            The northwestern part, sparsely populated, yes. And the southeastern part is in the ulus of Chagatai. And among the Kazakh zhuzes, the most famous and influential are from there.
        2. +2
          7 November 2024 17: 49
          Tatoro-Mongols - a beautiful myth that crashed into reality
      2. +6
        7 November 2024 12: 27
        It's not about what they call themselves, but who they see as their enemy, and by all appearances it's the Russians.
    4. +6
      7 November 2024 12: 18
      No, they would have simply died out from epidemics. Whole tribes died from syphilis alone.
    5. +7
      7 November 2024 15: 31
      If it weren't for the Russians, they would still be drowning in dung and eating gophers...

      If it weren't for Mother Rus', they wouldn't have drowned anything and certainly wouldn't have eaten any gophers! ))
      They weren't particularly keen on being accepted into the Russian Empire! Learn history!
      And only against the background of complete destruction, in 1730, Abulkhair and his sons Nuraly and Yeral turned to the Russian Empress Anna Ioannovna with a petition to extend Russian citizenship to the Kazakhs of the Younger Zhuz. In 1731, this petition was granted.
      Read, if you are not too lazy, the VERY-VERY interesting fiction book "Nomads" by Ilyas Yesenberlin. This book was considered almost historical by the Kazakhs themselves during the USSR. It is written so honestly and truthfully. Taking into account all the realities of "that" time and way of life.
      Having lived in Kazakhstan for most of my life, I can confidently confirm the correctness of the author’s conclusions.
      They hate Russians because they were "pulled out of their primitive communal state (that's right, not the Middle Ages). And this was the case even during the USSR. True, it was not so reactionary. And among us, children, fights with Kazakhs were commonplace. So either they will accept their past, or dissolve in China. And it is very actively moving there.
  3. +16
    7 November 2024 05: 55
    Do nationalists, regardless of nationality, love anyone other than themselves?
    1. IVZ
      +10
      7 November 2024 06: 48
      Do nationalists, regardless of their nationality, love anyone other than themselves?
      Yes, first of all, they don't love their real selves. They make things up, and everyone else is guilty of... well, of everything.
    2. +10
      7 November 2024 11: 22
      Quote: parusnik
      Do nationalists, regardless of nationality, love anyone other than themselves?

      The main sign of nationalism is not love for one's own people, but hatred for others.
      The basis of the "independent" states after the collapse of the USSR is nationalism, both overt and covert.
      Happy "red calendar day" - the Day of the Great October Socialist Revolution!
    3. +2
      7 November 2024 14: 04
      Do nationalists, regardless of nationality, love anyone other than themselves?

      I once had a conversation on this site with a person who considers himself a nationalist.
      At first, as expected, they told me "nationalism is love for the Motherland and patriotism", but after a short time and "the burden of counterarguments" love for the Motherland was transformed into "nationalism is about one's own and others".
      I think there is no need to explain who is ours (nationalists) and who is foreign (non-nationalists) in this interpretation.
      But at least I got an honest answer. ))
    4. +2
      7 November 2024 17: 51
      Do they love anyone other than themselves?

      Money!!!
  4. +12
    7 November 2024 06: 18
    A useful, good ethnographic article, in Transbaikalia where I served there were approximately the same conditions, and the Buryats had the same way of life. Half-desert, half-steppe, the climate is sharply continental, highlands, lack of oxygen is a complete nightmare, officers are replaced after three years.
  5. +14
    7 November 2024 07: 04
    many whom Russia taught to shit while sitting with their pants down, many of these people have now begun to hate Russians and Russia. The dogma about the friendship of fraternal peoples, invented not by Stalin's Bolsheviks but by Khrushchev-Brezhnev's communists, was a lie in order to deceive Russians. And therefore, only Russians were forced to repeat that, well, Ukrainians, Kazakhs and other Uzbeks are fraternal peoples for Russians in the USSR. But no one heard that Ukrainians or these Kazakhs-Tajiks called Russians a fraternal people. The scale of the greatness of progress is in the difference
    Russia "from the plough to space rockets" with the "progress" of those whom it taught to empty themselves sitting down, taking off their pants, is amazing. And now you see, that Russia could take the spaceship "Buran" from Baikonur from its Kazakh owner, since that Kazakh owner of Buran could not even repair the roof of the assembly and testing building where the "Buran" that flew into space was stored and the roof collapsed on the "Buran", damaging it, this "elite" Kazakh in exchange for "Buran" demanded from Russia the head of Khan Kenesary. Well, why, as the proverb says, does a goat need a button accordion, or rather "Buran" ... By the way, this head of Kenesary Kasymov is not anywhere in Russia, not even in the Kunstkamera ...
    If this president of Kazakhstan scolded Russophobes on the streets of Kazakhstan for decency's sake, then one can only imagine what kind of Russophobia there is on Kazakh television and in school history textbooks! They go out into the streets already prepared as Russophobes.
    1. +6
      7 November 2024 08: 01
      The main mistake of Lenin and the Bolsheviks is the idea that every nation can be forced into socialism straight from the tribal system. But it didn't work out - everyone must reach the bright future themselves. Yes - they can be helped on this difficult path, but they still have to move the pistons themselves...

      A people whose mentality knows only one type of relationship, master-slave, in principle cannot just accept the idea that there can also be an equal. This requires many, many years.
      1. +3
        7 November 2024 12: 51
        Paul,
        Sorry for interfering.
        Lenin made no mistake:
        The main mistake of Lenin and the Bolsheviks was the idea that every nation could be forced into socialism straight from the tribal system.

        This is a modernization of history, what we know today, not a single person on earth could have guessed about in 1917.
        Ethnography, ethnology and anthropology were only in their infancy. Levy-Bruhl would write his three-volume work only in 1929! And it would be translated into Russian in 1931, what a mistake:
        People, mentality which only one guy knows

        There was no such term before Levy-Bruhl's work! And they began to actively conduct research based on Levy-Bruhl's theory in the 50-80s.

        Yes, no one and no one was driven, the fight against deviations (right and left) is precisely the fight for understanding where we are going, how we are going? How to go? In 1924, no one had the idea that it was possible to build socialism in such an underdeveloped country as Russia.
        Lenin, as long as his strength allowed until 1921, resolved tactical issues and was engaged in immediate management and reaction to challenges, and did not “drive someone into socialism.”
        I repeat, what we know now, especially in knowledge about ethnic groups, was not even suspected in the 20s. Everything we know about this was researched in other eras. Even the word mentality

        For comparison, look at the language theory of academician Marr, it makes your hair stand on end, and back then, in the 30s, it was considered quite reasonable. Here, by the way, are the roots of an unprecedented ancient Russian nationality.
        hi
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +4
            7 November 2024 13: 34
            Why do you think so?

            I didn't take it, it's a pattern.
            It turns out that Hegel knew about the electric generator, or certainly should have known, since he wrote a lot of things.
            Why then does a person study for so long from kindergarten, everything is already clear?
            "Mentality", "meter" or "tester" are known to people from birth. But Lenin knew Bitcoin and Agile laughing
            Science is developing, and this is an axiom; people do not know what has not been worked out and developed: yesterday we did not know what we know today.
            And in terms of the science of ethnic groups, it would be better for non-specialists to remain silent, so as not to write such nonsense as in this article:
            Why did the ancestors of the Kazakhs choose the steppe, despite all the disadvantages and hardships of nomadism? In my opinion, for safety reasons.

            laughing laughing laughing
            And did the ancestors of the Russians choose the forest because of the danger?
        2. 0
          10 November 2024 05: 54
          The problem is that Lenin's topical articles of the day became the Bible and an object of worship. Although, both Marx and Engels and Lenin himself called on everyone to study and develop. And normal science and philosophy in particular presuppose denial as a natural development.
      2. +5
        7 November 2024 15: 50
        into socialism straight from the tribal system.

        Kazakhstan is a country where the DEAD live better than the LIVING!
        I remember very well how you drive through the steppe, pass a Kazakh cemetery - mini-minarets on graves made of white and red brick. They are like little palaces built! Graves - like in a movie! Beautiful, well-kept, expensive and rich...
        Then you drive past their "village" of 2-3 houses made of manure + grass + clay and snotty, eternally dirty children and you don't understand "Why is that?" Why don't you build YOURSELF out of brick? After all, you haven't been NOMADS for a long time!
        The military garrison, left by him in a fully WORKING condition, was destroyed to the ground!
        Well, if you like cattle, keep them on the first floors of multi-story buildings, and live on the 2nd or 3rd floor! There is water, gas, electricity... No, everything is in shambles, graves are made of bricks, and we live like 1500 years ago in houses made of dung. History will put everything in its place. These people "will not survive". Their territories will be taken away from them. There is no other way! You can't fight much against a 5th generation fighter (and not even a XNUMXth generation one) on a horse, even the best one... And they will come running to us again... Save us, Russian brother!
    2. +9
      7 November 2024 10: 17
      Quote: North 2
      Only Russians were forced to repeat that, well, Ukrainians, Kazakhs and other Uzbeks are fraternal peoples for Russians in the USSR. But no one heard that Ukrainians or those Kazakhs-Tajiks called Russians a fraternal people.

      Today is the day of the Great October Revolution
      Brotherly nations sat in one trench, they beat one enemy - because there was one Soviet Motherland, and one Great Victory for all! You, excuse me, forgot Kozhedub, Begeldinov, Shutov and many, many other defenders of OUR Motherland. You simply need to reread Musa Jalil, or the virus of nationalism will touch you too.
      Childhood and youth were spent in regions where in one class/enterprise there was almost a full set of peoples of the USSR - the main criterion for selecting friends was never based on nationality. It was later, during perestroika, that they began to instill/implant "national identity", "national religion", "national self-awareness", "national history" - as a result, the powerful princes of the state were torn apart into appanage principalities and practice internecine wars (Prince Zelya), other princes saturate their fiefdoms with nationalism in every possible way, so that the BROTHERLY people would be seen as an enemy.
      1. +5
        7 November 2024 15: 59
        You, excuse me, forgot Kozhedub, Begeldinov, Shutov and many, many other defenders of OUR Motherland

        Do not forget.
        And never have all people been considered "trash"! Neither Ukrainians, nor Kazakhs, nor Uzbeks...
        15 republics. Together they broke the backs of the fascists. And now "this"! That's why it hurts my heart especially.
        Kazakhstan, for example, is my homeland. Even though my mother and father are Russians in who knows what generation. That makes everything that happens there even more painful.
      2. +1
        10 November 2024 05: 57
        We haven't forgotten. There are streets and books. And we reward veterans who stayed there, etc.
        Although after the 90s, Russians have scores to settle with many.
  6. +11
    7 November 2024 07: 06
    It's just that many nations, not only Ukrainians, have a dreamy consciousness. We are not deprived of it to some extent either - what are the current legends about the supposedly blessed Russian Empire worth, for example! With schoolgirls, cadets, balls and French bread...

    There is apparently only one cure - to send them back to the much-cherished golden age. For example, the Wahhabis want to send them back to the Arabia of the Prophet's time - for God's sake! You'll find yourself there now.

    The same with the Kazakhs - the steppe is big, organize a huge reserve, and send everyone there forcibly upon reaching, say, 16 years of age for two years. Give them a yurt, a horse, a dozen sheep, and - forward, to their ancestors... No communication or emergency assistance, survive on your own.

    Upon your return, if you return of course, to a city apartment, a warm toilet, electricity and medicine - and we'll talk about the damned Muscovite occupiers...
    1. +8
      7 November 2024 10: 59
      What are the current legends about the supposedly blessed Russian Empire worth, for example! With schoolgirls, cadets, balls and French bread...
      So there are many documents and journalism reflecting the "paradise" of that time. It is enough to read Gilyarovsky. Everything is described there in the most accessible form. The trouble is that they do not want to know how it really was. They are comfortable in their imaginary world, and more experienced uncles and aunts with ambitions and lack of principles use them. Approximately as the democrats of the early 90s used dissidents. Then, because they were no longer needed, they were simply thrown into the trash, where they happily died, forgotten by everyone.
  7. +14
    7 November 2024 07: 15
    The article is a plus. The historical reality is voiced, explaining the mentality of the Kazakhs. More precisely, that part that roamed, and did not live in agricultural areas.
  8. +18
    7 November 2024 07: 41
    Usually nationalists are "humanitarians". It has been noted that not a single nationalist ideologist has ever worked in production (either industrial or agricultural). Usually they hung around in humanitarian offices. They wrote dissertations that no one needed, received salaries, academic degrees, apartments, etc. And they stirred up trouble...
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        7 November 2024 16: 26
        Well, only a desk jockey could write something like this.
  9. +14
    7 November 2024 07: 45
    Once, in the east of the Orenburg region, I accidentally stopped by a shepherd's camp at the end of summer. It was Soviet times, a small summer hut, a sheep pen nearby. All the land within a radius of 50 meters from the hut was covered with a thick layer of dried manure. Several small children were running on it, one after another, playing. Apparently, they had come for summer vacation. The air was filled with manure dust, which they breathed in. This dust contains a lot of parasites that get into the lungs and then settle in the internal organs. Even with developed medicine, these are terrible problems. And in southern Kazakhstan, tuberculosis is very common. A doctor I know told me how in Soviet times they were sent in brigades to the south of Kazakhstan for this reason. As they say, you can't do good by force, and therefore there is something to hate. This hatred is fueled by the intelligentsia, suffering from an inferiority complex. And here the Soviet government is clearly to blame with its quotas for various structures. The same writers' union got into the quota of "writers" and "poets" who saw their insignificance against the background of real writers and poets, and this infuriated them. The same thing happened with teachers under the quota. They wanted to feel like they were the first in the village, and for this the village would have to be separated. Worthy writers and poets did not suffer from this. Let's remember Gamzatov, Aitmatov.
    1. +7
      7 November 2024 07: 57
      Worthy writers and poets did not suffer from this. Let us remember Gamzatov, Aitmatov.
      Just don't talk about Aitmatov. He is the same perestroika crap as the other Abramovs, Soloukhins and Vasily Bykovs. I remember how in Komsomolskaya Pravda in the late 80s he fiercely advocated for the Kyrgyz language, and when a reporter asked him what school his children attended - Russian or Kyrgyz - he proudly said that they attended an English school, and that he personally taught them the Kyrgyz language.
      1. +10
        7 November 2024 08: 07
        It is amazing how all commentators forget that the October Revolution pulled many nations out of the darkness of the Middle Ages, and the collapse of the USSR returned these nations to the position they had been in before.
        1. +8
          7 November 2024 09: 51
          +100500!!! No need to comment further... Happy Great October Day!!! No matter how you look at it...:)
    2. +5
      7 November 2024 17: 51
      I read about Quebec, Catalonia, Basque Country. Well, not a single thing can be compared with fraternal Kazakhstan or even with Ukraine. And the instigators of nationalism are the same humanitarians who feel deprived in a big country and dream of big positions, OKDs, grants. But for the sake of fairness - we, Russians, are not far behind. We glorify bonds and spirituality, and hate the whole world, and the "elite" is ready to sell everything for bucks.
  10. +6
    7 November 2024 08: 02
    Apparently, the following series of articles awaits us in the future: Why Armenian, Azerbaijani, Georgian, Baltic, Tajik, Uzbek, Turkmen, Chechen, Dagestani, etc. nationalists do not like Russia. smile
    1. 0
      7 November 2024 10: 49
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      Apparently, the following series of articles awaits us in the future: Why Armenian, Azerbaijani, Georgian, Baltic, Tajik, Uzbek, Turkmen, Chechen, Dagestani, etc. nationalists do not like Russia. smile

      I got the impression that Russian nationalists don't like Russia either, otherwise they wouldn't call their homeland a multinational state.
      1. 0
        8 November 2024 12: 26
        Quote: Artem Savin
        Russian nationalists don't like Russia either, otherwise they wouldn't call their homeland a multinational
        Reply
        Quote

        It's just that if you dig deep enough, it turns out that Russians don't really exist in nature - they're a fusion of nationalities.
        1. 0
          8 November 2024 15: 54
          When they united the Vyatichi, Krivichs, Wends, Vandals, Polyans, Muscovites, Chud, etc., under the banners of the Russian kingdom and probably with similar national appearances, then Russians were a citizenship like Russians now and, for example, the Buryats and the Caucasus could not be annexed then, and it turned out to be an alloy of these peoples who began to like to call themselves not by nationality but by citizenship and citizenship was transformed into nationality, after 1917 they tried to repeat the trick with Soviet citizenship, it did not work out, now they are messing around with Russian citizenship
  11. +10
    7 November 2024 08: 31
    It turns out that the Russians came and... destroyed their steppe, nomadic idyll. Now that's the basis for hostility.

    Russian hordes burst into camps, auls, villages and left behind cities, factories, theaters, schools...
    1. +2
      7 November 2024 09: 55
      And how many free schools were opened for the poor population in the camps, in the villages, in the kishlaks during the tsarist era?
  12. +7
    7 November 2024 08: 33
    Quote: kor1vet1974
    It is amazing how all commentators forget that the October Revolution pulled many nations out of the darkness of the Middle Ages, and the collapse of the USSR returned these nations to the position they had been in before.

    Yes, but with one smaaaaall amendment: “these peoples” themselves raced to return “to that situation”.
    I completely agree with the author of the article, in conclusion I can only repeat after the classic:
    "The state is not a ready-made paradise, but a fortress built through pain and labor."
    Yuri Kachaev, "Behind the Forest Helmets".
    1. +3
      7 November 2024 10: 04
      And we haven't returned to the Middle Ages, are we progressive? You can go to jail for insulting the feelings of believers, but if you burn an atheist at the stake (I'm exaggerating), nothing will happen? Where are their factories that were built under the Soviet regime, not under the Tsar, and where are ours? In the same place. In the garbage dump.
  13. +13
    7 November 2024 08: 55
    Quote: Igor Belobrov
    Usually nationalists are "humanitarians". It has been noted that not a single nationalist ideologist has ever worked in production (either industrial or agricultural). Usually they hung around in humanitarian offices. They wrote dissertations that no one needed, received salaries, academic degrees, apartments, etc. And they stirred up trouble...

    I completely agree that pastoral nationalistic fantasies populated by heroes and unicorns usually arise in warm humanities classrooms where they "pour from empty to empty", and not in factory workshops or scientific laboratories.
  14. +7
    7 November 2024 09: 23
    Today is October 7th. WSR Day.

    I remember how back in the USSR they used to put things on shelves:
    that nationalism is a product of capitalism. Before that there were subjects of such and such a tsar, archgrave, prince, etc.
    And here the Oligarchs, they wrote that Russian ones too, support nationalists for their own purposes. money, organization, training, etc. Only it rarely comes up, because the oligarchs are "their own" for the authorities

    So it’s counterfeit to be surprised by nationalism in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc. The authorities themselves are trying to erase the memory of the USSR and the friendship of peoples.
    there was a clear period in the 10s when the media, instead of news about the week of friendship with ..., began to print news that everyone owed us for the pipe....
    And off we go. Another memory of the USSR erased...
  15. +8
    7 November 2024 10: 26
    Yeah, I remember a joke:
    Two people meet. One of them is like this:
    - I don’t like this Ivanov!
    Second:
    - I don't like this Ivanov either. By the way, how much money do you owe him?
  16. +9
    7 November 2024 10: 56
    The nomadic yurt on a stone foundation (first image) looks original, we should preserve it. I wouldn't be surprised if the yurts have all the benefits of civilization, such as electricity, running water and sewerage.
    As for the humanities scholars who came up with the myth, it's like that everywhere now. It's hard for a humanities scholar in our world, there's nowhere to show off, and artificial intelligence is hot on their heels. Where do you think BLM and all that environmentalism came from? From there too. They need to show off, so they try to invent some idea.
  17. +6
    7 November 2024 11: 01
    In the republics, Russophobia is needed so that rich officials and oligarchs can stay in power, just like ours, until the generation that remembered the USSR dies out, and the young don't give a damn anymore, they have a different worldview
  18. +4
    7 November 2024 11: 03
    Why Kazakh Nationalists Don't Like Russia

    For the same reason that Russian nationalists don't like Kazakhstan - because they are nationalists. They are the same everywhere.
  19. +1
    7 November 2024 11: 37
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    They are the same everywhere.

    Yeah, yeah! But the right to love someone or not to love someone must be earned, earned.
    The Russians earned it, with their backs, fists, sweat and blood. The Germans earned it, the English, although I can't stand them. The Americans, such bastards. You'll laugh, even the French and Italians. The Turks.
    But here are all sorts of Frankensteins inhabiting quasi-states, molded either out of mercy (the word has the same root as alms), or, most likely, out of stupidity, by neighbors. Unlikely.
    So what! We request new manuals and jump to the designated place.
    1. -1
      7 November 2024 13: 59
      So what! We request new manuals and jump to the designated place.

      So I understand that the feelings of a Russian nationalist have been hurt? wassat
      "Witch hunt" is just a marker.
      But the right to love someone or not to love someone must be earned, earned.

      Would you mind revealing the logical chain that led you to this judgment? It could turn out very interesting.
    2. 0
      10 November 2024 06: 05
      That's why those developed countries support nationalism in the ones they make. This policy is called neocolonialism. When you can take everything you need and not be responsible for anything. They have democracy and freedom. And if frankly: "A fool doesn't need a knife, just sing along with him a little..." (C).
  20. 0
    7 November 2024 11: 51
    Half of the material is nonsense. Some average Kazakhs.
    But every myth and specific demands have a name and surname. And what is happening now is the work of the Kazakh authorities. Tokayev said that language patrols are the work of the special services.
    Are there any parallel special services in Kazakhstan, together with the Kazakh ones? The history of Kazakhstan is being rewritten by some Vasya from Perm or Singapore, no, it is the government that has flooded this section of education with myths.
  21. +7
    7 November 2024 11: 53
    Dislike and weakness are two interconnected things. If Russia were strong economically and had a powerful army, I am convinced that many neighboring states would begin to confess their love for Russia.
    1. +2
      8 November 2024 12: 30
      Quote: Idle_piston
      If Russia were strong economically and had a powerful army, then I am convinced that many neighboring states would begin to confess their love for Russia.

      The USSR all it was. Confessed their love for him - Türkiye/Finland/Iran/China?
  22. +9
    7 November 2024 12: 22
    As I see, the author did not reveal the topic of the article - the article describes in detail the nomadic life of the Kazakh people, the Kazakhs remember how their ancestors lived and, more or less, now want to live like that, I understand that being in the Russian Empire, the way of life of the nomads was violated intentionally or not, but now the Kazakhs themselves are in charge in Kazakhstan - what is the fault of the Russians, what are the Kazakh nationalists unhappy with, especially since modern young Kazakhs have adopted the way of life of the Russians and live in cities - where does Kazakh nationalism come from? - author - explain.
    1. +3
      7 November 2024 18: 05
      I am not the author, but I have read that among the Kazakhs there is strong hostility towards each other, all sorts of clans, tribes, and communities cannot peacefully coexist with each other, especially those who have lived in cities for a long time and are more or less civilized, and newcomers from backward regions with “wild archaic” views of the world.
  23. +3
    7 November 2024 12: 37
    All nationalists do not like all others. They do not like their own either - they are nationalists.
  24. +2
    7 November 2024 12: 56
    The Kazakhs have always enjoyed the help, support and even direct participation of Russia, but they have a negative and even hostile attitude towards it.

    The mentality is this.
    Goodness is mistaken for weakness.
  25. +1
    7 November 2024 14: 09
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Would you mind revealing the logical chain that led you to this judgment? It could turn out very interesting.

    Very simple. I consider the notorious "Right of Nations to Self-Determination" a Versailles chimera that cost humanity rivers of blood.
    I understand that comparison is not proof, but this will probably make it clearer:
    I have no idea what kind of person you are, but let's assume that you are my age and have achieved the same things in life as I have:
    A couple of cars, an apartment, a summer house, knowledge, experience and a name in professional circles acquired through hard work.
    Just imagine that your neighbor, who has spent his whole life sitting on the porch and never lifting a finger, shows up to you in order to acquire and earn all this. He shows up and declares that he also has the right.
    Will you like it a lot?
    No one at the level of the creation of the world slaughtered the nomads so dear to you to build a settled civilization. To build cities, to develop science, industry, even if for this it was necessary to bow low and sell the last pair of pants.
    ALL established states, established nations earned their position in the world through sweat and blood.
    These nations have the right to have their own opinion. Even if someone doesn't like it.
    And let the lazy neighbor continue to sit on the bench and wait for a coin to be thrown into his cap.
    1. 0
      7 November 2024 15: 42
      I understand that comparison is not proof, but this will probably make it clearer:
      I have no idea what kind of person you are, but let's assume that you are my age and have achieved the same things in life as I have:
      A couple of cars, an apartment, a summer house, knowledge, experience and a name in professional circles acquired through hard work.
      Just imagine that your neighbor, who has spent his whole life sitting on the porch and never lifting a finger, shows up to you in order to acquire and earn all this. He shows up and declares that he also has the right.

      No, it didn't become clearer. We were talking about
      That's just the right to love someone or not to love someone you have to deserve it, earn it.

      And you are talking about the "right to have or not to have certain material values"
  26. +1
    7 November 2024 14: 15
    Quote: Million
    The Kazakhs have always enjoyed the help, support and even direct participation of Russia, but they have a negative and even hostile attitude towards it.

    The mentality is this.
    Goodness is mistaken for weakness.

    There is a wonderful book: “History of the Russian Army”, it is a collection of works by the professors of the Nikolaev Imperial Military Academy.
    Such a solid volume. I'm sure that every forum member has it on their bookshelf. We are on VO!
    So, in this book, there is a detailed description of the Caucasian and Asian wars. There is a lot written there about the mentality and the peculiarities of the concepts of honor and conscience among different peoples.
  27. +2
    7 November 2024 14: 23
    Quote: S.Z.
    All nationalists do not like all others. They do not like their own either - they are nationalists.

    What a mind-bender! Judging by everything, you are clearly not Russian. Otherwise, you would know the basic foundations of the Russian mentality:
    "As long as the person is good."
    I don't give a damn about what nationality someone is as long as they meet my personal moral requirements, the main one of which is the classic: As much as you stomp, so much you reap. Everything in this world, except parental love, must be earned.
    If any group of the population lays claim to the proud name of a civilized nation, it must, first of all, correspond to this image.
    If we are talking about Kazakhs, then, with your permission, I will leave Baurzhan Momysh Ulla as the standard Kazakh for myself.
    You've probably read "Volokolamsk Highway".
    1. +2
      7 November 2024 15: 17
      What a mind-bender! Judging by everything, you are clearly not Russian. Otherwise, you would know the basic foundations of the Russian mentality:
      "As long as the person is good."


      1. You have not convinced me that I am not Russian - and in my Soviet passport it was written that I am Russian, and I grew up in Russia, and my parents are Russian. Maybe you can see it better from the Internet :)
      2. I was talking about nationalists. Are you a nationalist? Of what nation?
      3. I read it. I didn't see any signs of nationalism in the book. It's more about internationalists.
  28. +7
    7 November 2024 14: 37
    Do you know why the chinks hate Russia and Russians? Because before the October Revolution they were all farm laborers who dreamed of becoming rich men and having farm laborers. A typical slave psychology. The October Revolution deprived them of this dream. And this hatred is passed on from generation to generation.
    1. +1
      8 November 2024 12: 39
      Quote: AlexSam
      Because before the October Revolution they were all farm laborers who dreamed of becoming bais and having farm laborers. A typical slave psychology.

      The specific nature of nomadic life excludes the presence of farm laborers/slaves - there is too much dependence on each other in the steppe.
      That's why their clans are so strong - when you have a large and strong clan behind you. Clannishness outweighs a bunch of factors there.

      And farm laborers are where they worked the land, you are confusing Kazakhs with Russia...
      1. 0
        8 November 2024 12: 42
        I agree. But then why do they need it? What idiot from a well-fed city life would go to the steppe to knead the mud? Or are all these cheap pictures an instrument of interethnic war?
        1. 0
          8 November 2024 12: 44
          Quote: AlexSam
          But then why do they need it? What idiot from a well-fed city life would go to the steppe to knead the mud?

          Why do people wear folk costumes and play the balalaika, dutar or dombra?
          1. +1
            8 November 2024 12: 52
            Quote: your1970
            Why do people wear folk costumes and play the balalaika, dutar or dombra?

            Honestly?)) For the rest it's business. But for the Kazakhs, for some reason, it has become one of the banners in the fight against the Russians.
            Until 1985 I lived in Eastern Kazakhstan, in Pribalkhashye, with all the diversity of nationalities living there, the closest friends for me were Kazakhs. In 1985 my parents moved to Lvov region (naive Soviet people) and I learned that there are special creatures in the world - Western Ukrainians. In the Soviet Union. But that's a completely different story.
      2. 0
        10 November 2024 06: 10
        Well... You don't know much about the clan structure. There are some kind of castes, someone is a shepherd, and someone is a warrior. You can read folk tales, if you want.
        1. 0
          10 November 2024 21: 53
          Quote: MCmaximus
          Well... You don't know much about the clan structure. There are some kind of castes, someone is a shepherd, and someone is a warrior. You can read folk tales, if you want.

          I've been living on the RK-RF border for 54 years... lol
          1. 0
            11 November 2024 10: 39
            The Soviet power liquidated the farm laborers and kulaks, of course. But the concepts and memory remained. And as soon as it ended, everything quickly returned to normal. For the majority of the people. Psychology takes a long time to overcome. The Russians were almost overcome. And the nationalities were not touched.
            I was amazed in the army. The Central Asians and Caucasians said directly: "You have Soviet power there, but we..."
            1. 0
              11 November 2024 11: 39
              Quote: MCmaximus
              The Soviet government, of course, liquidated the farm laborers and kulaks

              They didn't even have them nomads especially - they are needed for a sedentary lifestyle. And in the steppe, this is an extra mouth on which there is no hope as a relative.
              But when settled life - the need for free labor immediately arises.
              1. 0
                12 November 2024 06: 59
                Well, that depends on how you put it. A self-sufficient family will never be hurt by extra hands. But what if he is a bai and has too many cattle to count? Will he himself graze them? Or his sons (and here are the warriors)? Or his wives? They will find something to do according to their rank. And they will find those who will graze and clean. And most often, for food. Because first they will drive him into debt and then assign him to the most difficult work.
                It's all as simple as two and two.
                1. 0
                  12 November 2024 12: 16
                  Quote: MCmaximus
                  And what if he has too many cattle to count?

                  A person becomes a bai not because of the cattle, but because of the presence of a large clan and warriors. The clan gave him a share for "protection" and supplied fighters in case of need.
                  And fat herds “from edge to edge” have never existed in Kazakhstan (the main region of nomads) - simply because the sheep eat what they don’t eat, and there is no rain and, accordingly, no grass.
                  You can look at the satellites - rays go from any point in the steppe. These are not roads - these are sheep paths beaten out during the season to the point of visibility from space. And there are flocks - 100-200-300 sheep, no more.
                  Bai was the main sheriff/bandit in this place. And he absolutely did not need farmhands - all that was needed was done by the younger children and wives.
                  1. 0
                    13 November 2024 02: 49
                    The working class, in short. The proletarians of the steppes. The free labor of free people.
                    And I know the classics: "If there is money in the world, then there are people who have a lot of it." Well, and so on.
                    1. -1
                      13 November 2024 18: 52
                      Quote: MCmaximus
                      The working class, in short. The proletarians of the steppes. The free labor of free people.
                      And I know the classics: "If there is money in the world, then there are people who have a lot of it." Well, and so on.

                      Money and sheep in the steppe were two different things until the 20th century.
                      So that you understand - the Kyrgyz Kaisaks already in the 20th century (before 1905) hunted... with bows! And this was quite commonplace for them.
                      And the factories of the Russian Empire produced arrowheads for them - I came across them in catalogues. So yes - the small families were poor.
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  31. +3
    7 November 2024 15: 53
    I went to an American sect and one pastor there quickly changed his tune and suddenly realized that God is not a Trinity, but one. And he joined another sect - the Oneness (naturally, not for nothing). Well, you can call all nationalists sects. This is an irrational belief that you are the center of the universe, some special one, chosen by God.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. +6
    7 November 2024 16: 53
    My formulation of the reason is as follows

    Name at least one former republic of the USSR where good and friendly relations with Russians remained? Well, except for Belarus. There are none. And the reason is simple - they all lived at the expense of Russia and Belarus. Even Ukraine was subsidized after 86. And having become independent states, it suddenly turned out that their entire beautiful life, especially the Baltics and Transcaucasia, was based on subsidies from damned Russia (there is a lot of data on the size of subsidies on the Internet and there is no need to post them here again, but in short, each resident, including the elderly and infants, of the RSFSR stupidly wiped off an amount equal to + - 10 thousand US dollars, still those, not today's (you can safely multiply by 3 to today's consumer exchange rate for the beautiful life of the national outskirts)). It became a shame - the Russians do not give any more money, live, they say, on your own ... Nazis, in a word. That's one.
    And two, this is that all these steppe dwellers and other barmaley-like illiterate Central Asian aborigines with other Balts, the Bolsheviks declared not even equal to the state-forming people, the Russians, but morally superior to them. And they began to hammer into everyone's heads that the Russian people must repent and suffer for the "chauvinistic" centuries of oppression of the peoples of tsarist Russia.
    Remember Lenin and his article about Russian great power chauvinism.
    Remember Stalin (People's Commissar for Nationalities of the RSFSR 1917-1923) with his ==national question takes a form that requires the development of measures leading to the working masses of backward nations and nationalities facilitating economic, political and cultural success, giving them the opportunity to catch up with the central - proletarian - Russia that has moved ahead" (Report on the immediate tasks of the party in the national question at the 1921th Congress of the RCP (b), March XNUMX).
    That is, the Bolshevik position on the national question, which was formed directly by comrade Dzhugashvili (Stalin), consisted of the Russian nation, which had allegedly previously “oppressed” everyone, with its labor, its accumulated wealth - both financial, political, and cultural - beginning a long epic of wasteful aid or gratuitous donation in relation to other allegedly “oppressed” peoples of the new entity under the abbreviation USSR.
    And this was the greatest mistake that the Bolsheviks made - after that the collapse of the country was inevitable. And the corresponding attitude towards the "oppressors" was cultivated by both the Bolsheviks and their successors, the CPSU, until the very last moment of the collapse of the USSR.
    By the way, this same national policy continues to this day; it is enough to look at the migration “achievements” of the party that is the successor to the CPSU.
  34. Des
    +4
    7 November 2024 17: 16
    Can anyone name at least one nationality, ethnic group within the USSR that now “loves” (respects, sincerely befriends) Russians?
    Everywhere in the national regions, lands, territories, republics, locals, Russian-speaking people are advancing - they are being "squeezed out".
    The weakness of the center, the absence of a single ideology and a fair path for the country's development for the people, the infantilism of the Russian people and, conversely, the activity of other nationalities, the defenselessness of the Russians - here you have the flourishing (in a good sense) of all other nationalities and, accordingly, nationalism.
    1. +3
      7 November 2024 18: 08
      It is true that Russians are not loved anywhere. But do they love Russians in Russia?
      1. +1
        7 November 2024 20: 00
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        It is true that Russians are not loved anywhere. But do they love Russians in Russia?

        I hope this is a question for the State? Or is it just rhetorical?
  35. +1
    7 November 2024 18: 36
    Quote: S.Z.
    3. I read it. I didn't see any signs of nationalism in the book. It's more about internationalists.

    Did you come up with it yourself, did you get offended yourself? And who talked about "signs of nationalism" in the book?
  36. 0
    7 November 2024 18: 42
    In general, it's clear. At the core is another provincial inferiority complex. Just like the Ukrainians.
  37. +2
    7 November 2024 19: 07
    It's much simpler. An inferiority complex makes a dumb person hate someone who is smarter.
  38. 0
    7 November 2024 22: 22
    Well, okay, Kazakhs were and will be Kazakhs and their nationalists are corresponding...

    But who prevented our government from being tougher with them after January 2022 and saving practically the statehood of Kazakhstan and at least just poking their faces in their terrible mistakes?

    Have you noticed that since January 2022 neither our media nor Kazakhstan have said anything about it? Where did those thousands of foreign Islamist fighters in that rebellion come from? They didn't name the country...
    What are our powers that be afraid of?

    Here is a detailed analysis with all sources: https://dzen.ru/a/Zyfj6WX6xWdDHNf5
    By the way, this is already the second time in their Kazakh history - the first time was in 1916, the Turkestan uprising. Then, too, there were militants from abroad. People like to step on the same rake once every hundred years...
    1. 0
      11 November 2024 12: 34
      Have you noticed that since January 2022 neither our media nor Kazakhstan have said where those thousands of foreign Islamist fighters in that rebellion came from? They haven't named which country...


      From nowhere. This is Tokayev's invention to call upon the CSTO.
  39. -1
    7 November 2024 22: 27
    It all started with the myth of the "Tatar-Mongol Empire", other "nomadic empires" and other fakes, thrown in by Catholic propagandists and picked up by the tsarist administration, which needed an image of an enemy during its expansion into Central Asia.
  40. +2
    7 November 2024 22: 40
    Why guess and dig into the reasons? In order to sever ties in a lively way and break previously established foundations, you need to have some kind of idea. And rabid nationalism and a designated enemy are the best idea, allowing you to destroy everything and not answer the question "And then what!?"..
  41. +3
    7 November 2024 22: 45
    And the most terrible nastiness was done by the one who gave all nationalities their own territories, and declared the territory occupied by the Russian population a common home. Now everyone has national apartments, we alone live in a walk-through yard, where anyone who wants to can walk in and dictate their rules and impose their customs on us.
  42. 0
    7 November 2024 22: 48
    Nobody likes to be indebted! And here, it seems like a "great nation", but it owes everything to the Russians. That's why they're furious...
  43. 0
    8 November 2024 04: 12
    "Grandes favores no hacen a nadie agradecido sino vengativo", escribió F. Nietzsche en Así Hablaba Zaratustra. Acerto.
  44. 0
    8 November 2024 07: 15
    And the Kazakh "nationalists" are not embarrassed by the fact that the lands given to them do not have their own name, and their people were named in passing during the extermination of the Cossacks in those lands.
    What kind of people are these, what is their name in their language?
  45. 0
    8 November 2024 09: 57
    Everything is said correctly. And the faster they impose their "nomadic Eden", the faster the thinking youth will run away from this Eden to wherever they want. It is not comme il faut to live in a cold yurt.
  46. -1
    8 November 2024 10: 00
    And it is absolutely right about the grievances against the Russians. You see, they came first with steam locomotives and railroads, and then cars, tractors, and airplanes appeared.
    But it has long been known that all this was invented by Kazakh sages, and stolen by Russians.
  47. -1
    8 November 2024 14: 40
    Great article. I read it in one breath, everything is well written.
  48. 0
    8 November 2024 14: 58
    Because they want to be rich people with their serfs in their clans. They don't want to work in factories. The only thing is to sit in a yurt and just drink kumiss.
  49. -1
    8 November 2024 17: 51
    After 1991 we helped to create the Ukrainian national state, the result is obvious. The article is more ethnographic, Russia needs to think about how to protect Russians and the Russian language in Kazakhstan, as well as about the return of historically Russian territories. There was not enough space in the article for this.
  50. 0
    8 November 2024 19: 44
    Quote: Aviator_
    Worthy writers and poets did not suffer from this. Let us remember Gamzatov, Aitmatov.
    Just don't talk about Aitmatov. He is the same perestroika crap as the other Abramovs, Soloukhins and Vasily Bykovs. I remember how in Komsomolskaya Pravda in the late 80s he fiercely advocated for the Kyrgyz language, and when a reporter asked him what school his children attended - Russian or Kyrgyz - he proudly said that they attended an English school, and that he personally taught them the Kyrgyz language.

    In fact, everything is even more fun with him.
    Aitmatov wrote after the USSR, while serving as a diplomat in Europe.
    Only his later books are not brought to light. It is not difficult to guess why.
  51. +1
    11 November 2024 07: 19
    Kazakhs hate Russia and Russians, among other reasons, because they understand perfectly well that their state includes huge Russian territories, which the leaders of the USSR, due to their shortsightedness and stupidity, carved out for them (as well as for Ukraine). They understand that Russia may make claims against Kazakhstan on this account, if circumstances allow it. As well as against Ukraine. As I understand it, it was precisely for the purpose of preventing possible territorial claims that the new capital Astana was located as close as possible to the Russian borders.
  52. G17
    +1
    11 November 2024 20: 03
    Bravo to the author for the article. I have 30 years of experience communicating with this Russophobic people, and since Soviet times. The author described everything correctly. In Kazakhstan, all government bodies, security agencies and the judicial system have been completely purged of Russians. The remaining compatriots are considered a "fifth column" of Russia, all Russian names of cities and villages are being renamed, history is being rewritten. The same thing awaits us with Kazakhstan as with Ukraine. There is no other way. Especially since they are laying claim to our lands, including Omsk. Despite the fact that they themselves are sitting on Russian soil in Southern Siberia.
  53. 0
    14 November 2024 19: 01
    Typical work of Western NGOs. Find a hungry aggressive minority, give them money, ensure impunity through embassy diplomats and send them to the streets. There is nothing national there, only money. We learned how it works in Ukraine.
  54. 0
    15 November 2024 09: 59
    Kazakhs hardly roamed in northern Kazakhstan. It was a long way to go in summer, and there were frosts and snowstorms in winter. The Russians entered the empty land. And they don't like us for one reason. They subconsciously understand that northern Kazakhstan does not belong to them, and that there is a high probability that the Russians will demand these lands back. So they raise a turbid wave in advance, and this only makes it worse for themselves.
  55. 0
    15 November 2024 10: 17
    Summarizing what the author has said, we can also come to the conclusion that the basis of the hatred of the Russians among the Kazakhs is not nostalgia for the lost "nomadic paradise", because they still understand what kind of paradise it was, and no matter how you describe it, the truth still remains in their souls. And when you know the truth, it is difficult to maintain hatred. I think that here it is different. Here, as well as among the Poles, the basis of the bitterness towards the Russians is elementary black envy. Precisely envy. After all, both the Poles and the Kazakhs like to call themselves a great nation, and cannot confirm this historically. The Poles all dreamed of the Commonwealth "from sea to sea", i.e. from sea to sea, - of a large state with a vast territory. But they did not succeed. And some Russians, whom they considered cattle, their serfs, created a huge state, which included Poland itself. Envy - why can't we do the same? And we can't blame ourselves. Nobody likes to blame themselves. So, the Russians are to blame. The same with the Kazakhs. How is that possible, we conquered this Rus', we robbed them as we wanted, they paid us tribute. And how did it happen that they are a truly great state and a great people, and we here in our steppe have not created anything. And only thanks to them have we somehow risen. So, we must pretend that they interfered with us, and are interfering now, because in fact we are stronger than them and smarter. After all, they paid us tribute, not we them. And they do not understand that those peoples who build their economy on a nomadic way of life, not creating anything, but only taking away what others created during raids, stop developing. This applies not only to nomads. This also applies to some mountain peoples, whose economy was based on property obtained during predatory raids on neighboring peoples - the same cattle, clothing, slaves, tools. When you do not create anything yourself, you remain in the last century, no matter how much you puff out your cheeks. But you can't blame yourself.
  56. 0
    15 November 2024 16: 06
    Excellently written! Literate. Reasonable. With a sense of humor. Without the desire to offend anyone, but only to tell the truth.
  57. 0
    15 November 2024 18: 46
    It is the people who can agree with the real picture of their past and preserve it for history, and not the crowd, which is easily manipulated by demagogues and does not realize the goals that they unprincipledly push it to achieve. And this state of affairs applies not only to the Kazakhs. I do not recall a single nationalist (at least from the republics of the former USSR) who would respect the Russian Federation and who would not furiously spit on the Soviet past, shaking far-fetched "facts" and "proofs" of the ruthless oppression of national autonomies. "The great cannot be false"? But what about the great lie, on which, first of all, any nationalism is mixed? It is not by chance that L. Tolstoy called nationalism "the last refuge of a scoundrel"!