Some thoughts on the appearance of "Armata"

For almost two years, the Russian and foreign public has been waiting for the promised main battle tank on the basis of the Armat heavy armored platform to be shown to it. Unfortunately, armored vehicles lovers, while only approximate dates of the project were officially published, and information about its technical appearance has a fragmentary character. Moreover, at present it is already quite difficult to determine which information appeared in official sources and which became the “fruit” of reasoning and analysis of the project on the basis of scarce official data. Nevertheless, even in a situation of such an information deficit, people interested in armored vehicles continue to make their assumptions. In particular, there are already several presumptive graphic images, the authenticity of which, for obvious reasons, cannot be verified yet. Let's try to put together all the existing assumptions and try to imagine what could be a promising tank "Armata".

Perhaps the most popular visualization of versions about the appearance of “Almaty” is a drawing by the artist A. Sheps. It depicts a tracked vehicle, vaguely reminiscent of the latest modifications. tanks T-90 At the same time, in the appearance of the tank, designated as T-99 "Priority", some trends that are not characteristic of Russian tank building are clearly traced. Nevertheless, these trends have long been a cause for a lot of controversy around the design and even the very concept of a promising main tank. The proposed look gathered, perhaps, all the latest ideas in the field of tank building, including those that were mentioned by some officials as necessary for the new tank.

In the summer of the past 2012, photos of a model of a certain armored vehicle with cannon armament appeared in the press. According to fragmentary data, it was possible to establish that this armored vehicle is being created precisely on the basis of the Armata platform. This fact allowed us to draw some preliminary conclusions regarding the platform itself, as well as to correct views on it. First of all, some assumptions regarding the layout of the armored hull were confirmed. At the same time, the issue of the combat module and weapons remains open. The fact is that the Armata is created as a multipurpose armored platform and several types of equipment can be created on its base in addition to the main tank.

Model of the tank, created by the OCR "Armata". OJSC Motovilikhinskiye Zavody, a demonstration of models of promising technology for one of the officials of the current composition of the government of the country. Publication - 29 July 2012.

The appearance of the "lighted" layout suggests that the new armored platform will actually receive the front engine-transmission compartment. In this case, the habitable volume will be behind it, closer to the middle part of the machine. It is believed that it is this placement of power units that can significantly increase crew protection in the frontal projection. It should be noted that the best protection in this case is ensured by the price of engine and transmission performance, as a projectile falling into the tank, breaking through the frontal armor, can seriously damage the engine. The crew at the same time, with high probability, will not suffer.

The basis for the protection of frontal projection, as in previous domestic main tanks, will be a multi-layer block of steel and polymer or ceramic materials. Such a system has long shown its advantages and is unlikely to abandon it. However, the specific type of “filler” remains in question, as well as the thickness of the armor layers and the overall dimensions of such protection. The sides and feeds of the new tank are unlikely to be able to withstand serious armor-piercing ammunition. These are most likely to be relatively thin (mm 20-25) sheets with additional screens. It is safe to say that the tank based on the "Armata" will also receive built-in dynamic protection, and on its tower will be mounted units of the active protection system.

With this approach, it will be possible to realize what is called the concept of “onion layers” in Western countries. This means that the different elements of the armored vehicle protection complex are responsible for different tasks and work together for the safety of the combat vehicle. Thus, the active protection system will not allow the projectile to reach the armor, and if it fails, the ammunition will be destroyed or seriously damaged by the charge of the dynamic protection. If she also fails to cope with her task, her own composite booking will contain ammunition. Finally, when the armor is broken through, the crew will be protected by the engine and / or additional armor plates inside the hull. According to various calculations, "layered" protection increases the survivability of the tank at times, and also increases the chances of the crew to survive with the defeat of the machine.

Hypothetical projections of a promising main battle tank (http://pakfa.ucoz.ru)

The power plant of the new tank, most likely, will be created on the basis of existing units. This will ensure the necessary characteristics, and will not lead to a delay in the development time or a serious increase in the cost of finished tanks. At the same time, in recent years, the Russian designers of the Transdiesel State Design Bureau have created a new A-85-3 diesel engine with an output of about 1500 horsepower. With the maximum possible boost for a short time, this engine is capable of producing more than 2000 HP. Such characteristics of a diesel engine will be able to provide an acceptable power density and, as a result, suitable mobility even for 60-ton tanks.

In the undercarriage of "Almaty" also should not wait for a revolutionary new solutions. With the estimated size and weight (in any case, the new tank should fit into the size of the railway platform) the new tank should have six or seven road wheels on board. They will probably be installed on a torsion bar suspension with additional hydraulic or hydro-pneumatic shock absorbers. At the same time, there are other versions. Back in 2011, the opinion spread that according to which, there will be eight track rollers on board in the undercarriage of “Armata”. Similarly, there is no consensus about the suspension. Based on the desire to simplify the design, engineers can equip a new tank with a suspension, in its structure similar to the aggregates of existing tanks.

The opinion is often expressed that the crew of the Armata will be located in a single armored capsule. This version is partially confirmed by the same layout. On the roof of its hull, at a sufficient distance from the front, there are visible observation devices for three people. Thus, the placement of three people - the driver, the commander and the gunner - in a single volume can be considered confirmed. However, there is no verified information about the additional armor capsules. Theoretically, nothing prevents, at a minimum, to enclose the separation of the crew from other volumes with additional armor plates. Assembling a full-fledged capsule with subsequent installation inside the case also does not look like something impossible, but in this case, the design of the finished tank will be much more complicated, and it will be more expensive.

From the placement of the crew in a single volume, it follows that the combat compartment, shifted to the stern with respect to the classical layout, will be uninhabited and fully automated. Regarding weapons, there is no accurate information. The discussion suggests tank guns of caliber from 125 to 152 millimeters, but the first seems most likely to be used. Firstly, the 2А46 family of weapons has long shown all of its advantages and modernization potential, and secondly, a tank with a 152 mm caliber gun can use tactical nuclear weapons, which may entail corresponding legal consequences. In addition, all existing and promising anti-tank missiles, designed to launch through the barrel of a tank gun, have the caliber of 125 millimeters. The photos of last year’s layout show that the armored vehicle will be equipped with some kind of new tool, as indicated by a different arrangement of the ejector. It is likely that "Plant number XXUMX" is currently working on the creation of a new smooth-bore weapon for promising cannon armored vehicles.

Uninhabited fighting compartment of the tank "Armat" will necessarily have an automatic loader. Since there will not be any “extra objects” inside the squad like sighting equipment or tank crews, it can be assumed that there is an increased ammunition compared to the current tanks. According to various calculations, the volume of the size of the fighting compartment of the T-90 tank, when using a new automatic loader, can accommodate containers with 35-40 shots. Thus, the ammunition of the new tank will be at least not less than the existing ones. In this case, unlike the current T-72, T-80 or T-90, all the shells and shells will be located in the automatic loader. This means that the preparation for the shot will take the same amount of time, regardless of the consumption of ammunition.

Additional armament tank "Armata" is also the subject of controversy. According to various opinions, the main weapon can be paired as a machine gun, including a large-caliber, and automatic gun caliber 23 or 30 millimeters. The same options are offered as anti-aircraft. weapons. However, based on the operating experience of existing tanks, it can be assumed that only rifle and large-caliber machine guns will be installed on the Armata. It is unlikely that the command of the Russian armed forces will change the developed and tested concept of armament of the main tank.

Based on the available data, it can be concluded that in the near future, at least five combat vehicles can be created on the basis of the Armata platform. Actually the main tank, self-propelled artillery, heavy infantry fighting vehicle or armored personnel carrier, probably an armored repair and recovery vehicle, as well as a bridge laying system. If the assumptions about the front location of the engine and transmission compartment are confirmed, then a smaller tower will be installed at the site of the combat module, and spaces will be placed for the landing force inside the hull. Doors for landing and disembarking soldiers, in accordance with recent trends, will be located in the rear hull sheet, which, when disembarking, will provide troops with additional protection against bullets and shrapnel.

Of course, everything is higher - these are only assumptions based on the mass of discussions of an interesting topic. So far, no technical details of the Armat project have been published. But known approximate dates of completion of the main works. About a year ago, representatives of the Ministry of Defense said that the first prototype of a tank based on the "Armata" will be built in 2013 year. Then there was information on the start of mass production. Mass production of new tanks will begin in 2015 year. A little later, Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin made a reservation that mass production would develop only in 2017. Just a few hours after that, it turned out that such a date was a mistake. The beginning of the serial assembly of new tanks is still planned for the 2015 year.

According to various sources, the Russian armed forces need at least 2,5-3 thousands of new tanks. Taking into account possible production rates, it can be assumed that large-scale construction of main tanks on the basis of the Armata platform will continue for at least eight to ten years. During this time, there may be new modifications, as well as other machines on the same base. Thus, the Armata platform has every chance of becoming the main heavy base structure for the next few decades. Such a responsible business may require a lot of time and development may be delayed. However, in this case, it is better to slightly delay the start of production than later all the time to refine and repair already produced problem machines.



On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://otvaga2004.ru/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://dogswar.ru/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-519.html

Comments

[atalef]

Who will explain how the concept differs from Merkava (with the exception of the uninhabited tower)
The engine is in front, the turret is shifted back, and the landing compartment is behind.

[Hon]

AZ, less weight, suspension. The main breakthrough is just the same uninhabited tower, and an armored capsule for the crew.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: atalef

Who will explain how the concept differs from Merkava

Why be different? Merkava is one of the best, if not the best, tank.

[evgenii67]

Quote: Vladimirets

Why be different? Merkava is one of the best, if not the best, tank

Eugene, I greet you !!!! You would be more careful in expressions, otherwise a long, without productive discussion may flare up, tk. there are many topics whose armor is stronger, whose tank behaves better in what conditions, etc., because I can write the T-90SM or the German Leopard 2A7 or the English Challenger 2, but in the end the Ukrainian "Oplot" is one of the best and conversations will be oh how long

[Vladimirets]

Quote: evgenii67

Eugene, I welcome you !!!!

Quote: evgenii67

You would be more careful in expressions, otherwise a long, without productive discussion may flare up, tk. there are many topics whose armor is stronger, whose tank behaves better in what conditions, etc., because I can write a T-90SM or a German Leopard 2A7 or an English Challenger 2, but in the end, the Ukrainian "Oplot" is one of the best and conversations will be oh how long

Of course. It's just that the whole article is based on speculation and assumptions, why am I worse? Well, the fact that Merkava, T-90, Leopard (I do not consider Challenger) and Abrams are some of the best tanks for today, no one argues? Well, minus I already flew for a comment and I feel there will be more than one, but how can it be, the Zionists may have a better tank? To the fire of me, to the fire.

[AlNikolaich]

Quote: Vladimirets

To the fire of me, to the fire

Do not FIG at the stake! If you do not agree, write a comment, why stupidly minus. Minus if koment is not the topic, plus if koment is useful.

[Alexander Petrovich]

Minus disliked comments, plus to this also write the answer. Like, if he is a General-Army (no offense dear Vladimir) - then he does not need to be minus as the local opposition, with the comments not like? Everyone has the right to vote.

[Papakiko]

On stake!!!!
Or to the Anglitsky submariners with their new comfortable one that does not require work in the slope of the nuclear submarine. (Astute which was discussed recently)

[Kommunisten]

Merkava nedotank with cardboard armor, it is worth looking at the thickness of the VLD and the sides of the wrecked tanks, it will become clear what kind of squalor it is, publicized around the world in the manner of abrashi.

[Pimply]

And also a bedtime story? Oh please! 8) Something as stupid

[Nord007hold]

In Merkava, the main part of the body armor is really concentrated on the tower, and the armor reservation is decently inferior to the analogs, which is explained by the specifics of using this tank.

[Pimply]

What exactly is inferior, can you give some specific example or source

[Darck]

In Merkava, the main part of the body armor is really concentrated on the tower, and the armor reservation is decently inferior to the analogs, which is explained by the specifics of using this tank.

And when it’s a tower, it’s ceased to be a hull? You probably wanted to say the reservation of the suspension) Only the reservation of the suspension of all tanks is not so hot)

What exactly is inferior, can you give some specific example or source

It is inferior that it is not Russian, so if it were Russian, there would be armor there, all armor armor =)

[Hoist]

And can you reference or something like that to the source in which the tower and the hull of the tank are the same thing? Separation in the form of: chassis reservation and reservation of the hull (complete with a tower) I generally hear for the first time. The driver is apparently also in the reserved volume of the chassis.

[Evrepid]

I can express a little unnatural thought:

"Mothers of soldiers do not care what they call the equipment on which their children serve or fight.
The main thing is that their children return home, and give them the opportunity to babysit their grandchildren and great-grandchildren. "

[candy bar140105]

Why is Challenger 2 all spread rot really such a g ....?

[Deniska999]

Gentlemen, our long debate will not add clarity to the question. All characteristics, layout, combat capabilities are still from the realm of speculation and hypotheses, let's wait for real hardware, or at least official photos, and then we will discuss it.

[Kars]

Quote: Deniska999

from the field of speculation and hypotheses, let's wait for real iron, or at least official photos, and then we will discuss

And then what? It is necessary that someone could write ---- And I wrote about this in March 2013)))))

[elmi]

The main thing is that after adoption they will not be sold to other countries, at least 5-10. Otherwise, then you have to compete with your own clones

[Phantom Revolution]

By the way, about the best I saw, they conducted tests. Oplot took the first place)
Alas, they threw the link to me for a long time, but I didn’t find it)
http://topwar.ru/23255-samye-luchshie-osnovnye-boevye-tanki-mira-na-2012-god.htm
l

[viruskvartirus]

Damn it’s like a knife, because you don’t always need a heavy, healthy cleaver, they can and can take their heads off, but you’ll get tired with you ...

[Sirocco]

Sorry gentlemen, maybe I don’t understand something, But, to compare the Merkava Heavy Tank with the T-72 T-80 medium tank is not humane like that. They are of different weight categories, and tasks. It is like David and Goliath.

[Bronis]

Yes, actually Merkava, and T-72, and T-80, and T-90 are the main battle tanks, and not, respectively, heavy and medium. This classification has been outdated for 40 years. All of them are MBT, but with different approaches to his vision.

[BIGLESHIY]

This qualification is not outdated, since, for example, Germany and England produced light and medium tanks for export (England). They just had no medium and light tanks in service after the Second World War, but heavy ones were developed and put into service immediately. And I'm lying in England "Scorpio" in the USA M48, M46.

[Bronis]

No, I’m a sadist to smack nonsense in mortal combat. Tell me where you can see "modern" heavy tanks in service. Mediums are possible - in Africa, but they are not particularly modern - they are 40-50 years old. The last British medium tank - Chieftain (second half of the 40s). The Vickers were also exported, but they were called the main battle tank - MBT. The Scorpion with a mass of 8 tons and a cannon in the area of ​​76 mm is rather a reconnaissance vehicle. Against this background, the BMP-1 is a tank.
By German medium tanks, you probably mean the Argentine TAM; it was created by Rheinmetall on the basis of the Marder BMP. In general, they also have "Patogons" with AMX-13 in service. This is due to the terrain and the absence of a serious enemy - to drive partisans and drug dealers. The Germans did not set themselves THERE. Yes, and the French have long abandoned light and medium cars. "Leclerc" - MBT.
As for the American M48 - this is the 50's tank, M-46 - just the 40's. Honor 60 years have passed ... So MBT has long taken a leading position. Heavy tanks have sunk into oblivion, medium and light tanks are either morally obsolete (tanks for the poor) or special vehicles and are in very small numbers.
And, dear Big Goblin, please put commas and other punctuation marks - it's hard to read. In addition, it is not the qualification that is outdated, but the classification, and the word "rubbish" is written with a soft sign. When are you going to take the exam?

[Kars]

Quote: Bronis

The last English medium tank is Chiften (second half of the 40s).

probably still a centurion?

Quote: Bronis

So MBT has long taken a leading position. Heavy tanks sunk into oblivion

Rather, these heavy ones turned into MBT, more because of the desire for standardization and progress in the engine building, which gave a tangible increase in power.

Quote: Bronis

The Vickers were also exported, but they were called the main battle tank - MBT

You never know what to call Vickers MK 3 is a medium tank, however, Centurion then can be called MBT models with 105 mm gun or T-62
So MBT is a rather vague concept.

[Bronis]

Quote: Kars

probably still a centurion?

Right! Having become ill, the brain is degrading ...

Quote: Kars

Rather, these heavy ones turned into MBT

Yes, it’s like someone. The same MBT T-64A grew out of the object 432 - the most that neither is average. And the M-60 grew out of the medium M-48, and that one grew out of the heavy M103. AMX-30 generally looked more like an average one (in armor protection), but MBT was considered.
In fact, the division of tanks into light, medium and heavy is based precisely on the mass (the level of armor protection), and partly on the armament. Although - everything is relative. "Panther" was considered by the Germans as a medium tank, in the Red Army it was considered heavy. There is no common assessment system for all
MBT jet classification "absorbed" in itself completely. Well, since the ideal tank has not yet been made, everyone chose the ratio of armor protection, weapons and mobility to their liking. But this did not stop the vehicles from being MBT. It's just that the designers saw the MBT in different ways.

Quote: Kars

You never know what to call Vickers MK 3 is a medium tank, however, Centurion then can be called MBT models with 105 mm gun or T-62

Vickers called MBT creators themselves, even if it remains. T-62 is not called that.
By the way, some British scientists (how the phrase was formed correctly) and Centurion are called the first MBT in the world. Well, South Africa is its Oliphant (fortunately, it weighs 60 tons).
And the British also began to call their "Scorpion" Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance - BRM. Although with the British - everything is generally difficult. They, it seems, in the armored part of the regiments are still called the Uhlans and Dragoons ... traditions are honored (well done).
So, the matter is clear, but dark and round purple ...

[BIGLESHIY]

In our Union and in Russia, there has never been and there is no concept of MBT, because There was no official document introducing this concept.
Several Orders of the USSR Ministry of Defense on the adoption of tanks.
Order of the War Minister of the USSR 1950 No. 00112 "On the introduction of the T-54 medium tank into service with the Soviet Army"
Etc. VM of the USSR 1952 No. 00211 "On the introduction into service of the Soviet Army of the light amphibious tank PT-76"
Order of the Minister of Defense of the USSR 1953 No. 00244 "On the adoption of the heavy tank T-10 by the SA"
Etc. Ministry of Defense of the USSR 1956 No. 00152 "On the adoption of the medium tank T-54B by the SA"
etc. up to 64 matches
Etc. Ministry of Defense of the USSR 1967 No. 02 "On the adoption of the new medium tank T-64 by the SA"
Etc. USSR Ministry of Defense 1973 №0148 "On the adoption of the new medium tank T-72 by the SA".
Etc. USSR Ministry of Defense 1976 No. 0143 "On the adoption of the SA tank with a T-80 gas turbine engine"
Etc. USSR Ministry of Defense 1976 No. 0211 "On the adoption of the SA of the T-64A tank with missile and cannon armament (T-64B)"
etc.
Starting from 1976 and in all subsequent Orders of the USSR Ministry of Defense, the concept of a medium tank disappears. Just a tank and that’s it. But the concept of a main tank is also absent.
The last heavy tank adopted by the SA was the T-10M (Project No. 0083-1957)
And in 1958, the PT-76B was adopted as a floating tank (without light) (Project No. 013-1958).

light - either morally obsolete (tanks for the poor), or - special vehicles and are in very small numbers.

But from this they did not cease to be considered easy
Light tanks can be air transportable, amphibious, reconnaissance, etc. These include, in particular, the Soviet PT-76 (1952) / - 76B (1958) and M; Austrian SK-105 "Cuirassier" (1969); American M551 Sheridan, M41 Bulldog, M8 (1985), Stingray (1980s); British FV101 "Scorpion" (1972); Chinese "Type 62" (early 1960s), French AMX-13. (These tanks were in service with manufacturing countries, not quite poor countries!). Sorry "Stingray" was produced in the amount of 100 pieces. is in service with Thailand (its price for 1985 is 1mil. $)

Quote: Bronis

And, dear Big Goblin, please put commas and other punctuation marks - it's hard to read.

I apologize, I wrote in a hurry, in the gloom, I’ll fix it But the exam is too late, the years are not the same.

[Bronis]

Quote: BIGLESHIY

But the exam is too late, the years are not the same.

Well then call!
As far as I understand, how many people - so many opinions. Your humble servant also did some fancy - he called "Centurion" "Chieften".
In principle, most of the tanks you cited are outdated and out of service long ago. About 50 years ago, they and such tanks as the T-54 and T-55 were "tanks for the rich (or well-off)" Others more often "worn out" the legacy of World War II.
And in general, I didn’t understand something here, but what raises questions. T-72, T-80, T-90, "Merkava" and others are called MBT, neither medium nor heavy are they called.
The vast majority of medium tanks are outdated long ago. These tanks remained mainly in very poor countries. Light tanks became specialized vehicles in fairly small series. Heavy, medium and light tanks of 30-40 years old do not form the basis of the tank parks of the leading countries. MBT replaced. Well, where did the tanks "pedigree go" - another question. But this does not make MBT medium or heavy. He remains himself ...

[BIGLESHIY]

MBT - A tank (let’s say so) adopted in service as the main one, other tanks can be in service at the same time. For example, Great Britain, Russia, China where several types of tanks are in service. In the USA, Germany, France, Italy there is only one type.

Quote: Bronis

T-72, T-80, T-90, "Merkava" and others are called MBT, neither medium nor heavy are they called.

Our tanks are not called medium again because we have no heavy arms. And if there were, then we would have to call everything by its proper names (heavy, medium - average). But at the moment we have the doctrine of medium tanks, and beyond the hillock they gravitate toward the heavy.
By the way, in Israel there are also several types of tanks, and they cannot all be called MBT.

Tanks are divided into TT, ST, LT by weight (well, they have different tasks, it was and will be) - each country has its own weight distribution.

Quote: Bronis

Heavy, medium and light tanks of 30-40 years do not form the basis of tank fleets of leading countries.

T-72, T-80 HOW MANY YEARS?
Okay, let's end our argument, I see you are not convinced. BUT the seed example from life. I have several types of computers in my family: dextop, laptop, tablet (TT, ST, LT), but my computer is called my dextop

[Bronis]

Quote: BIGLESHIY

desktop, laptop, tablet (TT, ST, LT) but my computer (computer) is called my dextop

That's right, but they are all legally called computers (Civil Code of the Russian Federation). All the rest are common names. Even when certificates of conformity are issued, as a rule, they indicate that the computer + alphanumeric designation + trademark (if any), and even the word "tablet" is not there (sometimes it is added to the trademark - so as not to frighten consumers, but legally this is not the same they try to prevent it). So it is here. Each - each with his own, tk. in bamazhka they write "tank", not "average" or "main".
And if even more - then your desktop is a thing - individually defined and indivisible. And in the event of a legal relationship related to the sale in Me-video - also the goods.
So - the main thing is that the tanks are. And we’ll name it here ...

[BIGLESHIY]

Yes, and these "David" will make these "Goliaths"

[AndreyAB]

Well, yes, yes, and he also cooks matzo.

[ATATA]

Quote: atalef

Who will explain how the concept differs from Merkava

The uninhabited tower brought to mind is quality step forwardbesides, I would take as a basis for our idle speculation not the artist’s drawings, but the layout in the photo. And so, when I see September (I hope so), then compare.
Conceptually, Russia and the USSR have always been ahead in tank building. And then it is well known that Merkava is a narrow theater of operations tank. And our cars are universal.

[AlNikolaich]

Quote: ATATA

Merkava, this is a narrow theater tank

That's right. The Israelis created their tank for their country, and its conditions. And that's it! And for the desert, he is the best! But in the Arctic it will freeze, and in the tropics the aggregates will begin to rust and the gums will rot!
Remember in the Soviet Union there were modifications of universal equipment for various climatic conditions: arctic, moderately cold, tropical, hot. And special. equipment, for example "Kharkovchanka", for Antarctic conditions (and nowhere else). And here is the Merkava, the same special equipment for your conditions!

[Pimply]

You do not repeat nonsense. In Israel, dramatic changes in climate, many climatic zones. Including 4-5 months a year - heavy rains, and at least one of the bases is in the freezing temperature zone. Merkava was created primarily for fighting in the mountains.

[aksakal]

Quote: Pimply

You do not repeat nonsense. In Israel, dramatic changes in climate, many climatic zones. Including 4-5 months a year - heavy rains, and at least one of the bases is in the freezing temperature zone. Merkava was created primarily for fighting in the mountains.

- Well, shove the Colombians as soon as possible, it's time for them there with an old acquaintance of the T-72 (albeit modernized for Venezuela), maybe they will be lucky to meet. For now, I agree that the Merkava is for fighting in Israel's conditions. As for the mountains, this is something of a fantasy. Weight 60 tons, power - 1500 hp. Where is the specialization for mountains? In the mountains, the ascents that need to be overcome can reach 40 degrees or even more. To climb thirty degrees, the engine already needs to pull half the mass of its tank, by 45 - more than 70% of its mass. And the mass of the Merkava is 60 tons. It's all easy to calculate. Then the same Abrams was also for battles in the mountains, but they were already convinced that Abrams was much inferior to Russian tanks even in flat areas in cross-country ability, not to mention mountain conditions. In terms of mass and power characteristics, the Merkava is all the same. Tell us what is in the "mountain" Merkava? By weight - they just can't climb the mountains -))))). The photos posted by the professor of caterpillar replacement did not show anything "mountain" in these tracks either.

[atalef]

Quote: aksakal

Tell us what is in the "mountain" Merkava?

Look

[Lopatov]

And what is mountainous here?

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

And what is mountainous here?

Only mountains, or do you think it flies in the steppes?
Or are you thinking on cliffs climbing?
What you see is a typical landscape of the Golan Heights

[Lopatov]

These are not mountains. So, skyscrapers. In Siberia they are called hills.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

These are not mountains. So, skyscrapers. In Siberia they are called hills.

Sorry, the Himalayas of Nem:

[Lopatov]

Exactly. And therefore, for the Himalayas they make truly mountain tanks.
Chinese is already in metal, Indian is on the way.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

And therefore, for the Himalayas they make truly mountain tanks.

And what is this ? THIS MOUNTAIN TANK, Decrypt

[Lopatov]

Lightweight tank with high thrust

[Deniska999]

Stop carrying nonsense!

[Lopatov]

How categorically. Ahinea, and the point. True, the Chinese with the Indians took care of such devices, but you can close your eyes to this. Who are they compared to you?

[vitya29111973]

This is not nonsense - it is either babble or schizophrenia.

[Lopatov]

What is your experience of using heavy tracked vehicles in the mountains? Have you ever seen how tanks get up there? Are you aware that in the mountains MT-LB can drive where the tank rises?

[postman]

Quote: Spade

Lightweight tank with high thrust

Type of this?

or

[Lopatov]

Something like that:

[postman]

Quote: Spade

Something like that:

while all this Based on materials from the "Bulletin of Mordovia"

need to look FULL PHOTO

He ("mountain") lower

suspension "than that" Tor - M1 (which was supplied to the PRC) recalls

[bask]

Quote: Postman

up to watch FULL PHOTO

You can show it.

Quote: Postman

Then the "Tor - M1" (which was supplied to the PRC) recalls

It reminds me of it. With the Chinese, they have it.

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1209/26_213442_ee0a329c383054c.jpg?2
8 [/ img]

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1209/26_213442_91387921c238a98.jpg?4
2 [/ img]

M-60А2

[img]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1209/26_213442_0f8951a350f4d69.jpg?5
3 [/ img]

[Lopatov]

According to rumors, Belarusians helped them make the chassis

[postman]

Quote: Spade

According to rumors,

Yes . Many options, I agree.
Maybe he (the tank) is not mountain at all.

[bask]

Quote: Postman

need to look FULL PHOTO

I AGREE, full version. ,, Mountain Tank ,,

[postman]

Quote: bask

full version. ,, Mountain Tank ,,

It will be "complete" as the net is removed. While all speculation.

[bask]

Quote: Postman

children, "complete" as the net is removed. While all speculation.

The tower will still be similar in layout to the Type-99 MBT. But it’s lighter.
The idea is to freeze our GSH and, based on it, make a BMP. Like Poles on the basis of the MT-S GSH, BWP-200 .. Or a light tank like the Chinese, On the GSH GM 567.
And ours re-create everything.
BMP BWP-200 (MT-S) .SSSR. Ready BMP and right now on the conveyor. Aft input. MTO in the nose.

[Meth]

bask,
I would advise you to contact the Mechanic, he knows better what and what order will be at the factory!

[postman]

Quote: bask

The tower will still be similar in layout to the Type-99 MBT

my Chinese comrades "whispered" to me that no.
There are other angles needed.

Quote: bask

And ours re-create everything.

Yeah.

[Lopatov]

It is necessary to look at the mask.

[postman]

Not Tokma.
the breech (more precisely everything after the pin) plays on the turret envelope, well, + sopromat.
it’s not so there:

[Lopatov]

--------------------------------

[postman]

Nice photo.
Whose ruler is paparazzi?

[svp67]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Spade

And therefore, for the Himalayas they make truly mountain tanks.

And what is this ? THIS MOUNTAIN TANK, Decrypt

Just look at the new South Korean tank K-2 Black Panther to find many answers to this question ...

[vitya29111973]

as well as flying, jumping, jumping and dancing. The sun you yourself understood what you wrote. MOUNTAIN TANK Yyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Lopatov]

Do you know that the use of tanks in the mountains has some specifics?

[Deniska999]

I repeat, enough to carry nonsense, to perform tasks in hard-to-reach areas, in general, there are helicopters, what can tanks do there !!!

[Lopatov]

Yeah, helicopters. Even infantry is not necessary. Some helicopters. With nuclear reactors to stay there all the time

[postman]

Quote: Deniska999

to complete tasks in hard to reach

Yes, when it was believed (in theory) that the best mountain tank (from existing) is MI-24

But practice has made adjustments:
-not weather (not flying)

MANPADS
- cost
-can not complete ALL tasks

therefore, even "flat" countries (eg Germany) have
GebJgBrg 23 “Bayern”

23 brigade of alpine shooters, consisting of 3 mountain rifle battalions, mountain artillery battalion, 2 mining companies, reserve company, support company and animal training and use company.

Video
http://www.rfo.de/mediathek/Hochgebirgsj_auml;gerzug_auf_der_Reiteralpe-19776.ht
ml

[Bronis]

Urgently sprinkle ...

[Papakiko]

Quote: atalef

What you see is a typical landscape Golan Heights

http://israel.panoskop.net/sites/default/files/pano/israel/Golan%20Heights_c.jpg



Would be mountains and would call them mountains, and so they are called exactly heights
Below are the varieties of mountains in Russia.

This is Sim and Uchaly in the Urals

This is called MOUNTAINS. (Caucasus, Pamir, Tien Shan, etc. you yourself will find)

Quote: Pimply

2500 meters in the Golan Heights, for example

The highest point in the Israeli-controlled part of the Golan Heights is Mount Hermon, 2236 meters high. 7% of the Hermon Range is in the territory occupied by Israel, and the highest point in Syrian territory reaches 2814 meters. At least from November to March, the top of Hermon is covered in snow. Israel built a ski resort there.

this is in summer and lower in winter (you can ask the "aborigines" of those places about its duration, I think they will share)

Quote: Pimply

In Israel, dramatic changes in climate, many climatic zones. Including 4-5 months a year - heavy rains, and at least one of the bases is in the freezing temperature zone. Merkava was created primarily for fighting in the mountains.

[Papakiko]

And this is baked to the Chinese by the sun and climate.

It's called find 10 differences. "
China-Israel.
T-72 (T-90) - "Carrot" with all modifications

[Pimply]

They are just not called. The essence does not change - the mountainous terrain. Like the continuation that in Lebanon, that in Syria, where battles were fought last times. These are mountains.

[Gipmol]

I apologize, but what about manual loading in Merkava

[Pimply]

Semiautomatic device. And, if you pay attention, few people, except for Russians, are fixated on the machine. And not because there are no opportunities, but because the machine has a bunch of shortcomings and not many advantages

[Lopatov]

"Semi-automatic" is a cool name. But in fact, it means that only an electromechanical rammer is available.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Spade

But in reality it means that only an electromechanical rammer is available.

More precisely, the "feeder". From it you need to get a unitary shot, turn to the cannon (simultaneously turning the shot 180 degrees) and send a shot to the cannon.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

few other than Russians

Is it?
France?
Japan?
Switzerland? (True prototype)
Sweden? (Truth removed)
South Korea?
Ukraine?
China?

[Pimply]

2500 meters in the Golan Heights, for example

[Sirocco]

And you don’t tell me which terrain is mountainous or hilly? Everything above 1000 meters is a mountainous area.

[Pimply]

Up to 200 m. From above - mountains, low up to 500 m, in absolute terms - up to 1000, medium - from half a kilometer to 2000, with a peak - at 2500. High -2-3 km. Highest - over 3000

[ultra]

Quote: Pimply

Up to 200 m. From above - mountains, low up to 500 m, in absolute terms - up to 1000, medium - from half a kilometer to 2000, with a peak - at 2500. High -2-3 km. Highest - over 3000

GEODESIST HOWEVER!

[aksakal]

From the point of view of geography and geodesy - right. But somehow I used to call the mountains that which is in Kazakhstan, on the same notorious Aktan-Kergen, where the outpost died. There even makes no sense to set an outpost in winter - these mountains are so impassable for pedestrians and horses.
Merkava tank is a good tank, but not a mountain one. The mountain tank has not yet been created by anyone. I will consider such a tank that at least in the summer it will reach Aktan-Kergen.
But Merkava is simply a tank, adapted to move over rough rocky terrain, and it does not belong to swamps and unsaleable mud. This greatly limits the export potential of the tank, because you are the grandson of the gum to sell it only to those countries where the predominant locality is similar to your (or, more precisely, Syrian) Golan. Russian tanks roam the Golan too, or rather, they roamed without problems, if it could have been there, both in the swamp and mud, and in the Indian jungle and Venezuelan selva without problems - neither the Indians nor the Venezuelans complain about this.

[Pimply]

Not mountainous, absolutely true. But imprisoned for work in the highlands. Because the northern border of Israel, as well as southern Syria and Lebanon are mountains. A bit unusual, but nonetheless - with a complex relief, rocky, with cliffs, sharp ledges, etc. It's just that most of the people here represent Israel as a kind of desert.

As for the dirt - for about four months of the year, Israel turns into one continuous impassable dirt.
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635780
I highly recommend watching this movie. There the beginning of autumn is shown. And closer to winter, impassable dirt.

[Meth]

Quote: Pimply

I highly recommend watching this movie.

Vasily, I highly recommend you understand. what is Russia!

[postman]

Good movie. I never imagined they were such "quickie"
And there is a record "taking" a steep on a dynamic acceleration (where it just does not go on the thrust)?

[Pimply]

I recommend looking at the northern border of Israel. Very, you know, be surprised.

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

I recommend looking at the northern border of Israel. Very, you know, be surprised.

I was on your sites that it’s not realistic to download. Is that a secret? NATO troops are on the northern border. What should I look at?

[Pimply]

What kind of troops ???? Where are they ???? What to download ???

[Slevinst]

Merkava is a good tank but not universal, it has strong armor and good electronics, but it’s so-so on passability, I wouldn’t consider Merkava in terms of totality the best tank in the world, it’s good but specific, it’s also abrams, but in conditions of prolonged fights in different places I think t 72 can give both of them a head start

[Pimply]

Dirty Mercava Tank

Merkava is also afraid of snow

And can't fly

Scared of the mountains

One of the main advantages of Merkava is more free space, comfort. The crew can fight without loss of effectiveness for several hours, but several days.

[Kars]

And I have one)))))))))))

Quote: Pimply

The crew can fight without loss of efficiency for several hours, but several days

it depends more on the intensity of hostilities, and not least on the demands of the crew.

[Pimply]

Believe me, and I have 8)

Release the tension, dissolve the track 8)))

It depends. But also from the layout itself, and the internal space, the creation of a certain level of comfort for the crew - too.

More Carrots in the mud

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

Believe me, and I have 8)

You should have more, as they say, anyone but you))))

Quote: Pimply

It depends. But also from the layout itself, and the internal space, the creation of a certain level of comfort for the crew - also

T-34s made breakthroughs and spent weeks fighting, but whoever calls them riding comfort.

[Corsair]

German tiger had leather crew seats , and yet he did not become the best tank of the Second World ......

[Pimply]

Yes? And recognized as one of the best, if you do not remember. They were simply very few produced - 1354.

[Pimply]

If you noted - without loss of efficiency there were words 8))

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

If you noted - without loss of effectiveness

in which units is it measured?
I do not argue that the more comfortable the better, but to put it at the forefront above combat characteristics --- so you can get a very short battle that nobody needs comfort.

And there wasn’t any fresh, untracked photo of Merkava for a long time,))))))

[Pimply]

I don’t. Just saying - one of the important points.

Find it here.
http://www.yadlashiryon.com

And on photo banks 8)

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

More Carrots in the mud

Somehow with the dirt you do not really. What kind of car do you know?

[atalef]

Quote: saturn.mmm

What kind of car do you know?

Zil 157 popularly referred to as KOLUN.
In low gear, he could give as much as 7km \ h, on the road his horses were distilled. In the absence of power steering. the most effective thing was to get on a rut and throw the wheel, otherwise the potholes simply twisted the hands, by the evening I did not feel them. Well, remove and disassemble the wheel - so this is just a song. Eh - nostalgia

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

Zil 157 popularly referred to as KOLUN.

The car is unique. Power steering was installed on the latter. Even without a hydraulic booster, after a year of operation, it is like a Lada on it, everywhere you need a habit, it is second only to the Urals in snow throughput. Accelerates slowly, but up to 120 km on the highway can be dispersed. The single-row six-cylinder engine is successful, with proper adjustment it is relatively economical, and it works quietly, if you go on the other side of the muffler, then at idle you might think that the car is not working. The cabin is a true sample of the forties. Yes, nostalgia.

[rubber_duck]

Quote: atalef

Zil 157 popularly referred to as KOLUN.

Here in Russia (outside the Moscow principality) the name "stupa" (from "one hundred fifty-seven", I suppose) is firmly entrenched behind THIS.

[fzr1000]

ZIL-157 was popularly called “Babai”, “Zakhar”, “Cleaver”, “Crocodile”, “Stupa”.

[super-vitek]

They didn’t shoot in the Carpathians ?! That is such a photo. Uzhgorod valley.

[dmitreach]

saturn.mmm, you have the first comment showing the road in the mud, not a rolled puddle.
Interesting fact; in a search for a video involving the IVECO LYS, I did not find a single video similar to the one you cited.
Similar to Lynx, on YOU TUBE, I have never met.
There is a video "90 tons in the mud", where you can see (possibly a tank training ground) how the tankers "rolled the road" into a "mud bath" state. But is there such a video with Merkava? I think it will drown. Considering that the Merkava Mk.4 had 1500 hp. with a weight of under 70 tons .... it seems to me that the engine, to put it mildly, will warm up and the freaks of the T90 (as in the video) will not repeat, and if it does, it will not last long. It will be like in the photo that Eugene posted, where the tanker is holding his head on a drowned carrot. And this despite the fact that the action of the T90 crew does not look skillful (in comments to the rabbit, about the mechanic, the words "shkolota" and "clown" are used more often). The tank is leading through the mud, but it did not drown, and the mechanic drive cannot leave.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: dmitreach

Interesting fact; in search of video

Considering my personal opinion, it’s best to do everything wisely, as in the video, regarding military equipment.

[dmitreach]

for comparison, abram would be in a puddle where e90 was - utop would

[Evrepid]

Engaged in the practice of self-digging ...?
And why doesn’t it come out and cross the road?

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

The crew can fight without loss of effectiveness for several hours, but several days.

I would like to look at the tankers, not even after a two-day battle, but after a two-day march.
And the tank, well done, you did a good one.

[Pimply]

I saw. Unpleasant sight 8) They stink scary. Two weeks in Nablus (Scheme) sat, tankers lived in tanks.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

I saw. Unpleasant sight

Our neighbors, a tank regiment, didn’t shoot back and the big commander punished us with a two-day march, the first day was normal and by the end of the second, remember bitterly.

[Papakiko]

Quote: Pimply

Two weeks in Nablus (Scheme) sat, tankers lived in tanks.

How could this be allowed, callous cruel people ..
In the first place, concern for the convenience and comfort of employees.

[Pimply]

They are familiar. There is such an Israeli concept - a tank as a house.

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

Dirty Mercava Tank

These are old photos. Rides, carrots, in the occupied Golan.
Only there are mountains. And the soil is 10 cm dirt, then the soil is rocky.

[Pimply]

Anexed, to be more precise. Not so old 8)))

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

to be more precise. Not so old 8)))

Occupation-capture, parts of the territory of a sovereign state with recognized, UN borders.
Anexia - it will be. If the IDF captures Gaza.
But not only about this. OBT with a front-mounted MTO could appear in
a state not involved in the arms race and preparations for a global war. For tank duels, the MBT of the classical scheme is preferable.
French heavy tank .53, 55,58, years of prototyping. AMX 5-120,65 tons

[Pimply]

Well, let's go deeper into legal terms. Annexation - the official unification by the state of all or part of the territory of another state unilaterally. The official annexation of the Golan was in 1981.

[Kommunisten]

yes you sparrows hesitated with their merkavas, the theme of armature, stick your merkavs deeper and go eat the matzo.

[Papakiko]

Well, in general, you yourself have passed your "carrot".
In snowdrifts and in "flight" - it is perfectly visible that everything is "superfluous" cleaned.
Probably for relief.
Although you can say that this is a specific modification.

[Pimply]

Are you aware that carrots have different versions? And what towers are different, for example?

And what is filmed here?

[Papakiko]

Quote: Pimply

Are you aware that carrots have different versions? And what towers are different, for example?

You will not believe it, but you are well aware, especially by your efforts of all "Israel children" taken together.
Especially in relation to mounted modules of armor protection.
Which can be removed and put on (mount-dismantle).

You better show us your factory with production lines for assembling your "Super Carrots". And then a continuous veil of mystery and secret.

For example, we all know UVZ and how the Abrams are assembled and the Leopard.
Enlighten us "dark illiterates", please ..

[malkor]

yeah, move the puddle, in winter along a cleared road (during the fighting, who will clean it?) and it may slide down a hill that will then jump - it's cool !!!!!

[Deniska999]

How do you argue this?

[urganov]

Yes, mountain ... I remember from Soviet times a very mountain tractor KAZ, that is, "Kolkhida"

[nerd.su]

Quote: Pimply

You do not repeat nonsense. In Israel, dramatic changes in climate, many climatic zones.

Quote: Pimply

Merkava was created primarily for fighting in the mountains.

However, a strong statement!

The climate of Israel is subtropical, Mediterranean type, relatively humid in the north, semi-desert and desert in the south.

Despite the small size of the country, it has zones of moderately hot and relatively humid climate, hot and semi-moist, arid and areas with desert climate.

It would seem, indeed, a serious bid for harsh climatic conditions. But, compare with the homeland of General Frost

The climate throughout Russia is characterized by a clear division of the year into cold and warm seasons. Most of the country's territories lie in the temperate zone, the islands of the Arctic Ocean and the northern mainland regions are in the Arctic and Subarctic zones, the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus is located in the Subtropical zone. Within each zone, a significant climate change is observed, directed from west to east (climatic regions) and north to south (zonal climate types).

As we see, in Russia the subtropical climate is only on the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus.
Well, the little things
in Israel:

Summer is long (from April to October) hot, dry, July - September is the hottest time. The average temperatures in July are from +24 to +32 ° C, in January from +6 to +20 ° C.
High air temperature due to the difference in humidity in different parts of the country can be perceived differently.
In winter, in mountainous regions and in deserts, air temperature can drop below 0 degrees.

In Russia:

the climatic norm of January in Russia is −19,7 degrees (in 2008, the actual temperature was −19,1 degrees). The climatic norm of July in Russia is +15,6 degrees (in 2008, the actual temperature was +16,8 degrees). In winter, almost the entire territory of Russia (normal), a stable snow cover is established. An exception is the southern regions of the Black Sea coast.

So, the climate of Israel is most consistent in Russia with the climate of the Black Sea coast. And the Black Sea coast is a resort area in Russia. And there are mountains there. Consequently, the Merkava tank is the most suitable tank for policing resorts. And then, it’s better not to call on the beach again ...

PS I believe that Merkava is a good tank for the police-specific wars in Israel. But do not compare it with Russian (Soviet) tanks, strong in that they were created for operations in various landscape and climatic conditions.

[Pimply]

What are the police specifics ???? It all went into her now. Merkava was primarily created as a tank for war on several fronts simultaneously. The northern border of Israel is mountains, the southern border is desert and rugged terrain. A few months of the year are heavy mud and heavy rains.

[nerd.su]

Quote: Pimply

What are the police specifics ???? It all went into her now.

However, the mountains are low, the terrain, although rugged, but deserted. All in all, the Merkava is a good tank. But not universal. There is nothing wrong with that; it was not intended for export. The fact that some citizens call him the best in the world is their mistake. This is a good tank, but it does not suit us. Comfort is more for the layman, not for the soldier. Impassable mud and heavy rains are relative terms ...
And he is heavy. Over 60 tons is not for us. 50-55 tons limit.

[Phantom Revolution]

I will disappoint you.
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/photos/Army/Merkava%201-2/Merk_snow.jpg

[atalef]

Quote: ATATA

Uninhabited tower brought to mind, this is a qualitative step forward

Merkava 5.

[Tjumenec72]

Whose sick fantasy is this?)

[Pimply]

This is a fairy tale, one of the ideas - and not even from the military.

[bask]

Quote: atalef

Uninhabited tower brought to mind, this is a qualitative step forward

Alafet, is that a joke or a joke? Do you know that in the fall, Armata ... will be shown without a tower,
And the front location of the MTO, I do not think is promising.

,, Black Eagle ,, Object 640 ,, This is the MBT of Russia in the 21st century.

[atalef]

Quote: bask

Alafet, is that a joke or a joke?

Uninhabited tower (more precisely, unmanned) (Merkava 5 - this is what is being developed

Quote: bask

You know that in the fall, Armata will be shown without a tower

And I have no doubt. uninhabited tower (in Armata) is only an idea for now and most likely we will see a regular copy of Merkava.

Quote: bask

And the front location of the MTO, I do not think is promising.

In general, the MO does not ask you (only no offense), and it seems to me that some specialists there are still there. The eagle may be pretty, but it's probably not very pretty and dear for a fight.

[Pimply]

And here - I do not agree. The concept has not even gone. Around him now many copies are breaking. In particular - discusses the possibility of weight loss, changes in the crew, the tower - inhabited or not - etc.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: atalef

and most likely we will see a regular copy of Merkava ....

And if the motor is in the stern, does this mean that Armata will be a copy of Abrams?
I understood correctly?

[uralkos]

There are only two main tank schools in the world, these are German and Russian. Everything else is copy, or plagiarism. Choose what you like best.

[Pimply]

Do you deny Anglo-Saxon as a fact?

[Phantom Revolution]

Such a tower will be taken, but another base will be taken.

[Sirocco]

And you don’t tell me where is uninhabited TOWER? I saw a similar car in one of the Scandinavian countries. The only thing they differ in is a moving weapon, but in all other respects it is one to one. Yes, they disarmed this tank.

[Sirocco]

That's almost like ours)))

[bask]

Quote: atalef

Merkava 5.

,, Merkava-5,, Israel absolutely does not need.
Against weakly armed Arabs, MBT with a manned tower is needed.
Promising projects with an uninhabited tower are being led by those countries. Which do not exclude a full-scale war. With the use of nuclear weapons
CHINA with a promising tank. TYPE-99 A 2

And amers from their own tank project FCS

[Avenger711]

FCS has already closed, throwing 36 billion.

[bask]

Quote: Avenger711

they closed it, throwing out 36 billion.

Officially, amers are closing a lot of things. But work is being done. And on FCS as well.

[bask]

Quote: ATATA

brought to mind, this is a qualitative step forward, except for t

There will be no uninhabited tower by fall. Only caterpillar platform.

Quote: ATATA

Quote:
Uninhabited tower brought to

But how to fight, with an uninhabited tower? Only on devices. And the price of such a tank stuffed with electronics will be a space Armata, but with an inhabited tower.
A ,, Merkav, this is a Tank-Assault weapon, created specifically for urban combat For sweeps in Gaza.
If you look at a hint of ammunition. ,, carrots ,,
,,

[Phantom Revolution]

Most likely the picture is at http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEzhT6BYExoW40rYeM9A1ygG29WedNqpobW7IGF
IiPQGzdDQVr this is similar.
And the layout itself looks like a black eagle. http://voencom.net/image/weapon/sv/1/t95_1.jpg

[ATATA]

Anyway, the model of the tank in the photo (if it is) looks like a real tank of the 21st century. Don't you agree? Such tanks are only in science fiction films with amers, and with us, I hope, they will soon become reality.

[Tjumenec72]

Anyway, the model of the tank in the photo (if it is) looks like a real tank of the 21st century.

Even too much)

[bask]

Quote: ATATA

In general, the model of the tank in the photo (if it is) looks like a real tank of the 21st century. Don't you agree? Such tanks are only in science fiction films with amers, and with us, I hope, they will soon become reality.

I would like to believe that, Armata, the embodiment of all world ideas, On promising tank building.

[Sirocco]

I recall a long-time presentation of the Ka-50 helicopter on TV. It was said about him that the Americans only have such helicopters in the movies (the film seems to be called Blue Thunder), and we already fly

[nic]

Sketch for five points.

[qwert]

The same as Merkava differed from the 416 and A-44 objects.

[Pimply]

What became serial 8)

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

The engine is in front, the turret is shifted back, and the landing compartment is behind.

And how does the BMP-1 concept differ from the Merkava-1 concept?
The first BMP-1 came out in 1966, the Merkava-1 project was approved in 1970.
BMP-1-MTO from the front, landing from behind, etc. I am not saying anything, but I can rephrase it, nothing is new under the moonlight.
I believe that Israel is not going to make a claim for copyright infringement.

[bask]

[quote = saturn.mmm] MP-1-MTO in front, landing in the back, etc. I do not say anything, but I can rephrase, nothing is new With the front location of the MTO.

KV-4, KV-5 with the front location of the MTO.

[atalef]

Quote: saturn.mmm

And how does the BMP-1 concept differ from the "Merkava-1" MTO concept in front, landing in the back, etc.

On the plane, by the way, too

Quote: saturn.mmm

I believe that Israel is not going to make a claim for copyright infringement.

Yes no use

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

On the plane, by the way, too

Speaking of airplanes, have you seen this?

Quote: atalef

Yes no use

Thank. But I personally personally like the Germans more, although Kars puts them in third place.

[Pimply]

Infernal mower 8))) Good joke.

[Pimply]

The fact that the BMP is a BMP, and the tank is a tank

[leon-iv]

Burn but still we are discussing the layout. AMX-13 is also a little like a tank.
no need to pull the hedgehog on the globe. Taki merkava sawed under certain conditions.
And is merkava often used as a BMP? And carries a second crew.

[Pimply]

So I really argue 8). After the Second World War, just Merkava became the only one with a front layout. In general, it will be interesting to look at the Russian version

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

So I really argue 8). After the Second World War, just Merkava became the only one with a front layout. In general, it’s interesting

Why the only one.? The projects were sea.
Serial MBT, yes.

FANTASY SOMETIMES BECOMES REALITY.

[Papakiko]

terrible miracle!
I think it will not lose much

[Pimply]

It's about the serial. We are not discussing the concepts of which there was a carriage and a small cart in every country developing tanks.

[BIGLESHIY]

Is AMX-13 a concept? He went into a series

[Pimply]

Was it MBT?

[BIGLESHIY]

When it was taken into service, the concept of MBT did not exist. By the way, the AMX-13 was in service with Israel.

[svp67]

[quote = bask] [quote = Pimpled]
So I really argue 8). After the Second World War, just Merkava became the only one with a front layout. In general, it will be interesting [/ quote]
Why the only one.? The projects were sea.

Yes, of course better than this

[svp67]

But worse than this

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

The fact that the BMP is a BMP, and the tank is a tank

Yes, this is understandable, but it was all about the concept, technical solutions.

[Slevinst]

and how do all tanks except merkavas differ from each other? everyone has a rear engine

[Sirocco]

Can you explain who came first, the egg or the chicken? Who holds the patent for WHEEL, Car, Airplane

[bazilio]

Hospadya, they again arranged a holivar! What for? To find out who first came up with? Who got the idea from anyone? All are good, everyone is interacting with someone, or everyone comes to the same solutions to the same question. Who came up with a front-line layout for the MTO does not matter, the main thing is that others could also think of this without having to peep at others. The stump is clear that the MTO should be located in the reserved space; making the engine out is stupid. And if so, then there are not many options for placing the MTO. Comrades, let's not measure ourselves

[Nick]

Quote: atalef

Who will explain how the concept differs from Merkava (with the exception of the uninhabited tower)
The engine is in front, the turret is shifted back, and the landing compartment is behind.

You can continue: the gun, armor, tracks on the sides .., and inside the tank. Tanks differ in tankers, in Armata the crew is not Israeli ...

[Avenger711]

There is no troop compartment on the Merkava.

[Captain]

In the presented drawing, most likely Object 195 is in the view of the author.
As for Almaty, [according to UVZ representatives] this tank will have a classic layout (the location of the propulsion system and transmission in the rear of the hull, uninhabited turret and landing compartment is not expected there)

[Yapatriot]

Why in the tank amphibious squad?

[fero]

To carry the funeral team) .. one with a shovel + priest
And just do it nadot ask the Israelis how they use this place in combat conditions ... maybe as a place where an infantryman can catch his breath, drink some coffee, hide from enemy "Allahakbars" and enemy fire

[REDARMYpartizan]

So sho, and this is a modern tank that does not have an automatic loader and the machine gunner must climb out under the bullets?

[Pimply]

This is not a machine gunner. Tank commander. Can sit inside in case of danger. But the rest of the time - it is upstairs and has a larger and more constant view. Israeli tank victories confirmed the correctness of this approach.

An automatic loader is an extremely controversial thing. Extremely. Most modern tanks do not have it. For justified reasons - it takes up a lot of space, the advantages are small, the disadvantages are up to a fig. On Merkava there is a semiautomatic device.

[Klisha]

This is the concept of the author of the article.

[Andrey58]

Quote: atalef

Who will explain how the concept differs from Merkava (with the exception of the uninhabited tower)

Yes, tanks in general are all the same: tracks, gun and armor. How is Merkava different from the T-34 with the exception of the front engine (which was also invented by non-Jews)?

[evgenii67]

Hello everyone! How many options, how many guesses ...... maybe it’s better not to say anything or write about the future look, but just wait for the official demonstration.

[Alikovo]

the chassis will be the same as in the picture but I'm not sure about the tower.

[stas52]

Now they are kicking me, but here are the facts: PAK FA The first flight made on 29 on January 2010 of the year, 21 on August 2011 of the year, shown on MAX-2011.
Serial production of the aircraft should begin in the 2015 year.
Now about Armata, no one has seen him, although the Mechanic writes that the platform is already riding, by the way Mechanic, since you saw this platform, tell me what it looks like.
Should enter the troops in 2015, don’t you notice the difference?

[Tjumenec72]

You would still be great with a dump truck compared (by development time)

[stas52]

Please:
In January 1989, the Object 188 tank was submitted for state testing. Tests have shown the high reliability of the new tank. March 27 1991 year, by a joint decision of the Ministry of Defense and the defense industry, the tank was recommended for adoption by the USSR Armed Forces.
On 30 of September 1992 of the year, the first “188 Object” of the installation series went into field trials, and on October 5 of 1992 of the year the Government of the Russian Federation issued Decree No. 759-58 on the adoption of the tank for the Russian Armed Forces
188 object is T 90
And look at how much the T-72 went through, and this is in prosperous Soviet times.

[Tjumenec72]

Do not engage in numerology, this is bad business)
Neither PAK-FA nor Armatu did it from scratch, how much work was carried out before we were brought ... to compare the timing, and even more so of different techniques is not correct.

[stas52]

The fact of the matter is that the PAK FA, that of Armata, are made almost from scratch, that's why I compare. I hope you will not say that we already had an 5 generation aircraft and they are making PAK FA on its basis. Or is Armata made on the basis of the T-72? If so, why, we already have T-90MS.

[Tjumenec72]

Nifiga is not from scratch)
We had more than one generation of 5th generation aircraft projects ... a lot was worked out on a golden eagle ... There are not one tank projects from each design bureau, the armata is a simplified 195 ...

[stas52]

well time will tell. In the meantime, as the mechanic says, the prototype of the platform is riding, the question is, do we already have combat modules?

[Tjumenec72]

All that is offered (modules) are still Soviet developments. Of course they need to be brought to mind. Now there is simply no time or money to start, something from scratch ... especially when there is such a backlog.

[leon-iv]

golden eagle did not climb in any way in the 5th generation of the usual LL which will be overdig.

[Tjumenec72]

Are the 5th generation criteria finally intelligible?

[leon-iv]

Are the 5th generation criteria finally intelligible?
Yes, the Air Force has
But CBS is clearly not included there))))

[Tjumenec72]

CBS is one of the ways to increase maneuverability (which is included in the criteria).
They tried it didn’t work, they scored, then they went further.

[leon-iv]

CBS is one of the ways to increase maneuverability (which is included in the criteria).
They tried it didn’t work, they scored, then they went further.
Sorry in me right now a lot of cognac and bourbon, so if you want, let's talk tomorrow in PM about the 5th generation.

[Tjumenec72]

I think it’s not worth it, the topic is about the tank)

[Bad_gr]

Quote: stas52

Armata, made almost from scratch .....,

I met the opinion that Armata is a slightly cheaper version of the 195 object.
If this is true, then it turns out not from scratch.

[evil hamster]

Moreover, this version is voiced by very competent people, and all the models only confirm this.

[Val_y]

So that's the catch, imagine what kind of work has been done in silence, and shown only when the plane has already been put "on the wing" - "in the light of spotlights," so to speak. That's the same thing about the "armature". In my opinion, they will show only when they will definitely go and shoot.

[Slevinst]

the difference is obvious that the aircraft is flawed and it crashes from a height, killing a bunch of millions of rubles and it’s not a fact that the reason will be clear, something will break in the tank and it can be studied, I don’t think that self-destruction will happen, the plane is much more difficult to launch into the sky than a tank land where is your logic mister?

[lars]

"Wonderful" topic for many years of discussion of "the appearance of a new tank." In some ways, all this reminds Gorbachev and company. How long will this fascinating "business" continue? Isn't it time for the "appearance" to appear already "in hardware" and from talking to business?

[Leroy]

Better just wait)

[ramsi]

but I wonder why nothing is heard about attempts to use the drum, shells for 6 - all three basic types, and, in fact, an automatic loader that would stick into the drum - similar to a shot? It would be possible to quickly change the ammunition in the gun, if necessary

[Patton5]

but I wonder why nothing is heard about attempts to use the drum, shells for 6 - all three basic types, and, in fact, an automatic loader that would stick into the drum - similar to a shot? It would be possible to quickly change the ammunition in the gun, if necessary

You probably outplayed the world of tanks?!?!? Sometimes you need to give your brain a rest!

[Tjumenec72]

The conditions of the war, you know, have changed ...
Drum for disposable breakthrough tanks (God forbid to shoot all)

[aksakal]

Quote: Tjumenec72

Drum for disposable breakthrough tanks (God forbid to shoot all)

- It's time to abandon the concept of disposable breakthrough tanks. Practice and life show that there will be no wars with one breakthrough, but the tank is just like a protected object of infantry fire support, moreover adapted for a long stay of the crew in it, and the tank itself will be planned for an extended period of operation

[Tjumenec72]

The conditions of the war, you know, have changed ...

and what is the speech of the cap)

[Slevinst]

the idea is good but a lot of space this drum will take and the place in the tank is in short supply

[ramsi]

too much, of course. If it is so rough to estimate, then 6 shells in a circle of 60 cm will fit with the smallest distance between cameras of 5 cm; Plus frame 15-20cm. Total - under 80cm in height and 20 centimeters longer than a unitary projectile. The Mandula is decent, but that’s it. Shutter is almost unnecessary. The breakthrough of gases is not terrible. Why not in an uninhabited tower?

[NOBODY EXCEPT US]

I set a minus to the article, it’s not clear why to discuss something that isn’t there yet, it will be the first prototype, it will be seen, but now it’s breaking the spears.

[Armata]

There is already a prototype platform. Only still drive it and drive to perfection. Changes are made approximately once a month. And he looks a little like merkava. In general, I think it’s incorrect to compare 2 of different tanks only because they have an MTO in front.

[Tjumenec72]

Mechanic so all the same in front)
Is this dictated by unification with the BMP? Because of this, 195 was cheated ...

[Armata]

Quote: Tjumenec72

The mechanic is still in front)

Yes in front. But not only because of the BMP concept. The same platform goes for self-propelled guns. There will be no landing hatches on the MBT. On the platform, only the rear hatches for the evacuation of the crew are laid.

[Tjumenec72]

Then most likely he will look like

After all, the special machine is now in UVZ ...

[leon-iv]

and dviglo what will be the Chelyabinsk X-shaped?

[Val_y]

Why not. It has already been shown in public.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

redi. But not only because of the BMP concept. The same platform goes for self-propelled guns. On MBT

The question arises. And why, build such a highly protected self-propelled guns. Maybe all the same, not self-propelled guns, but an assault gun.? Self-propelled guns are not booked like that, only ballistic reservations.

[Durant]

Remember the Msta-S self-propelled guns, it is on the T-80 platform (with MTO from the T-72), here and there, easier booking with the same nodes ...

[Pimply]

But this is already really interesting. Because it has been said many times that the engine will still be carried back. thank

[Armata]

Quote: Pimply

Because it has been said many times that the engine will still be carried back.

Hello namesake. Do not forget that what is being driven now is a prototype for a single platform. But I don’t think that specifically under MBT they will change the concept. Moreover, the assembly slip is sharpened precisely for this platform.

[Pimply]

In general, it will be interesting to see which solutions are applied. And will there really be any radical changes and a departure from the Soviet concept - for example, from an understated profile

[Armata]

Quote: Pimply

t of the Soviet concept - for example, from an understated profile

Profile lower than T90. Okay, the girls went to congratulate. In the evening, do not pay special attention to me. I'll be on the canyak right now, and a lot.

[Pimply]

This is embarrassing. Modern guidance means do not fool around with this, and an increased amount of reserved space would give a more efficient crew

P.S. For girls - go ahead, Zhen 8)

[leon-iv]

This is embarrassing.
And then we can create the best armor protection.
more efficient crew
either gnomes will recruit or we will increase automation as on nuclear submarines.

[Pimply]

Automation will not replace space.

[leon-iv]

don't tell me. The machine needs less space than a person.
Forgive me in Merkava more than 90% is the control of the area.
Yes, and armata is also a 90% nuclear war, especially considering that the armata profile will be below 90.

[Pimply]

Yeah, look at the automatic charging 8)).
What they could automate - they did almost everywhere.

Keep in mind that the smaller the crew, the more time it takes to service the tank.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Pimply

Keep in mind that the smaller the crew, the more time it takes to service the tank.

It's not a big problem.

[Pimply]

This is how to say it. Why is this not a problem, can you say, given the fact that the time for servicing a tank is increasing with each new model?

[Lopatov]

Rather, time will decrease. Less work will be performed by the crew.

[Pimply]

Why did it happen?

[Lopatov]

The more complex the equipment, the more work that is done not by the crew, but by specialists.

[Pimply]

In theory, yes. In practice, the loading of tankers is only growing.

[leon-iv]

No, because repairs are often modular.

[leon-iv]

Yeah, look at the automatic charging 8))
looked less)))) and solidly.
Keep in mind that the smaller the crew, the more time it takes to service the tank.
Oga extra loader)))

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

The profile is lower than that of the T90.

Why underestimate the profile and reduce the amount of reserved space
They underestimated the profile of the tanks when the sights were still optical .. And now modern SLAs will disappear into a soccer ball at a distance of 1 class.
MBT TYPE-99 China. Exclusive.

[Kars]

Wildly sorry first photo Japanese Type 90
The second king tiger without armor.

[bask]

Quote: Kars

I’m sorry I am the first photo Japanese Type 90

So trust the translation from Chinese.
I'm wildly sorry.
TYPE -98, CHINA

TYPE-99

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

ezek. Do not forget that what is being driven now is a prototype for a single platform. But I do not think that specifically for MBT b

The platform will be built. But what is the price of the question, the project ,, Armata ,,,? If the T-90 SM costs 101 ml rubles. Given the saturation of the future platform with electronics., And this is at least 60% of the cost of the machine itself. It will fluctuate around 250-300 mol. rubles per unit. Depending on the lots built.
That's why MBTs are relatively inexpensive. They will not cost so much maintenance anyway. It will be either the next T90 modification or a new tank, with the T-95, Black Eagle, with an inexpensive assault gun. Caliber 152 mm. For direct support MBT in urban combat.
ANTI-TANK WEAPON FOCH -120-MM, FRANCE

[atalef]

Quote: Mechanic

. And he looks a little like merkava. In general, I think it’s incorrect to compare 2 of different tanks only because they have an MTO in front.

Strange, we are talking about the concept, are there tanks other than the Merkava with the MTO at the front and the landing compartment at the back? Well, as for the uninhabited tower, I bet that the first will be with the inhabited, and the uninhabited - the further development of the concept.
So what’s the difference, mechanic, if you say that they’re a little like

[Armata]

Quote: atalef

So what’s the difference, mechanic, if you say that they’re a little like

If you compare Peugeot 207 and let's say Camry. Both with front-wheel drive. And what else are they similar besides?

Quote: leon-iv

and dviglo what will be the Chelyabinsk X-shaped?

Now the prototype is B-48-1. But they do another specifically for this tank. I don’t know yet.

[atalef]

Quote: Mechanic

If you compare Peugeot 207 and let's say Camry. Both with front-wheel drive. And what else are they similar besides?

oh well, here half the site wrote boiling water claiming that Galil is a stolen AK. So please, the answer is appropriate for the engineer. Does the concept of the platform of Almaty repeat the Merkava, and if not, what is the difference
And why did the army decide to exchange for the platform (from the traditional layout - MTO at the back) on the MTO in the front so far used only in Israel?
Which countries have switched to such a layout or are they moving in the project (if you know)

[Armata]

Quote: atalef

So please, the answer is appropriate for the engineer. Does the concept of the platform of Almaty repeat the Merkava, and if not, what is the difference

I can’t give out this information. Excuse me, but I receive documents only by appointment. And he promised the country that I wouldn’t disclose information related to the design features. You know the secret. And I also know if not half of the site. I never write about what I don’t know for certain, or I ask questions.

[atalef]

Quote: Mechanic

Mystery do you know

I did not ask you to give out secrets. I asked if the Merkava layout repeats or not? Or am I blind and the engine in front, as well as the landing compartment at the back, seemed to me?
Mechanic, why the hell have the layout of the Merkava been stolen? :

[Armata]

Quote: atalef

Mechanic, why the hell have the layout of the Merkava been stolen?

But because. It was necessary to guard more carefully.

[atalef]

Quote: Mechanic

But because. It was necessary to guard more carefully.

And he did not answer the question about the platform. Does pride interfere?

[Armata]

Quote: atalef

Does pride interfere?

No, the law on the disclosure of state secrets.

[atalef]

Quote: Mechanic

No, the law on the disclosure of state secrets.

So he said

Quote: Mechanic

Quote: atalef
, why the hell have the layout of the Merkava been stolen?
Mechanic

But because. It was necessary to guard more carefully.

State secret, where? What they torn, so he said
After all, they did not ask for more

[Tjumenec72]

Do you read komenty or your review obscures your Merkama?)
The location of the engine is due to the unification with infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns on the same platform, and not "additional protection" of the crew as in Merkava.

[atalef]

Quote: Tjumenec72

Do you read komenty or your review obscures your Merkama?)
The location of the engine is due to the unification with infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns on the same platform, and not "additional protection" of the crew as in Merkava.

And how are you with the understanding of what you read (in particular the article)
\

The appearance of the “lit up” layout suggests that the new armored platform will indeed receive a front engine-transmission compartment. In this case, the habitable volume will be located behind it, closer to the middle part of the machine. It is believed that it is precisely this arrangement of the power plant units that can significantly increase the crew protection in the frontal projection. It should be noted that the best protection in this case is provided at the cost of engine and transmission operability, because a shell falling into the tank, having broken through the frontal armor, can seriously damage the engine. The crew at the same time, with a high degree of probability, will not suffer

[Kars]

An erroneous point of view prevails here, in Merkava, because of the layout and overload of the chassis, they could not provide protection for the nose of the hull at an acceptable level, which is why the engine serves as additional protection.
In a modern tank, the forehead is the most protected part, and so, look where everyone is trying to shoot - to the side or the stern, even the vaunted American Abrams with uranium BOPS could not dobitta the frustrated photos with the broken T-72 frontal armor, and if they were a propaganda vehicle the United States would not let them go .
Recently progressive in their periods include T-64 and Leclerc, automation and CIUS, respectively,

___________

[atalef]

Kars,
Kars is a cool photo. I was at this base. Samson base, near the intersection of the Golani, center for the repair of armored vehicles, on the Independence Day, they give tours there. Photo probably from her.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

. I was at this base

Quote: atalef

. Photo probably from her

Quote: atalef

center for the repair of armored vehicles

I'm glad --- let's throw some more pictures

[Papakiko]

Quote: Kars

I'm glad --- let's throw some more pictures

Right now he throws .................. we’ll tire of loading with shovels!

These "patriots Izraelovy" will refuse to comment on why the T-34 grew out of the T-44.

[bask]

Quote: Kars

Recently progressive in their periods include T-64 and Leclerc, automation and CIUS, respectively,

Tower, Leclerc, with automatic loader.

[bask]

,,,

Quote: Kars

spruce and serves as additional protection.
In a modern tank, the forehead is the most protected part.

It’s more likely that it’s already become classics. WWII tanks. Powerful frontal armor is needed. If the tank was planned to be used in tank duels.
Our .KV-1, IS-2, Panz-6 Tiger.
Now comes the forefront of strengthening the reservation of the roof, stern and sides of the MBT.

[Tjumenec72]

This article is a sketch on the fan, it’s not the developers of the tank who wrote it! This is IMHO's personal author, who, incidentally, can also be an adherent of the sacred chariot)

[Lopatov]

Actually, we had to guard this more thoroughly.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Actually, we had to guard this more thoroughly.

Does he have an airborne squad in the back? Or am I blind again?

[Lopatov]

Does the "Armata" have a troop compartment in the back? Or do you take folk art at face value?

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Does the "Armata" have a troop compartment in the back? Or do you take folk art at face value?

And what is not? It's a pity . A very useful thing.
I would take in your place all the best that is in tank construction, and since they switched to the front MTO, 30 Israeli experience is probably useful. Ask - teach, we do not mind

[leon-iv]

USU, we now have Israel The homeland of elephants))))
A Peredemotornaya layout a lot of people had. Remembering German and Soviet designs of Changeling.

[atalef]

Quote: leon-iv

USU, we now have Israel The homeland of elephants))))

Merkava only

Quote: leon-iv

A Peredemotornaya layout a lot of people had. Remembering German and Soviet designs of Changeling.

You know, all that I read about Armata is a copy of Merkava (with the exception of an uninhabited tower, but people probably missed a pass

However, there is no verified information about the additional armored capsule. Theoretically, nothing prevents, at a minimum, enclosing the separation of the crew from other volumes with additional armor plates. Assembling a full-fledged capsule with subsequent installation inside the hull also does not look impossible, but in this case the design of the finished tank will be much more complicated, and it will be more expensive.

So the tower will be inhabited (I think) - The rest is a copy of Merkava (only the question is which is 2 or 3)

[leon-iv]

The rest is a copy of Merkava
What is the layout again? So did all tank-building powers already have this?

[atalef]

Quote: leon-iv

What is the layout again? So did all tank-building powers already have this?

I understand it is vain to say that licked.
Galil is less similar to AK than Armata to Merkava, but the whole site was dying in ecstasy that Galil (in its modern form) was just a torn AK.
How is it?
Show me at least one modern battle tank (except Merkava) with such a layout, as well as a front-mounted tachanka, already in 4-horsepower.

[AlNikolaich]

Quote: atalef

Galil is less similar to AK than Armata to Merkava

I'll put a minus. Galil - a copy of the licensed sample of AK produced in Finland under the brand name Valmet is a fact. Israel bought equipment for the production of Galil from the Finns - this is the same fact! Moreover, the bolt frame from Galil is suitable for Izhevsk Saig (Pupyrchaty will confirm ...) .- fact! The presence of other sights, another forearm, handles are trifles that can be changed on any type of weapon, and this will not be a hallmark. Tuning SIR!
In other words: if the object:
1 walks like a duck;
2 quacks like a duck;
3 swims like a duck;
4 flies like a duck;
5 and also looks like a duck
then the conclusion is DUCK and there is!
GALIL-NON-LICENSE COPY OF KALASHNIKOV AUTOMATIC MACHINE!

On the other hand: Armata, which is known, has just been tested, that it seems to have an MTO front location and a seemingly uninhabited tower. And few have seen her (and Mr. Atalef is the same)!

But we are so insightful that we claim that Armata is a copy of Merkava!
Here is the minus for this. Harnessed to the argument, do not prove the insignificant facts!

[Pimply]

I won’t confirm about Izhevsk Saig and Galil’s box - simply because I didn’t do such experiments. The fact that Galil was produced under license - well, with its significant modifications, of course - is a fact. Ergonomics was completed, milling replaced stamping - it was much more orderly. Materials, caliber, etc. The rest is Kalash, which no one hid. And it is a licensed copy, not an unlicensed one. At least due to the fact that the technology was officially purchased from the Finns, but the USSR did not file a patent. Yes, by the way, copyright does not apply to the general idea. Even in the case of registration of patents, their term by the 70th has expired. Now Izhmash has patents only for individual nodes of the hundredth series.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Pimply

was much more orderly ....

Kalashnikov assault rifle was finalized for reliability, and by an order of magnitude ....

Was it a joke or what?

[Pimply]

No, not a joke. In Kalash, for the masses, they made several concessions in terms of reliability. For example, stamping instead of phrasing, or cheaper grades of steel.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Pimply

In Kalash, for the masses, they made several concessions in terms of reliability .....

Oh, something, but the reliability of Kalashnikov has never been disputed by experts. and vice versa, has always been a feature of this brand.
In Afghanistan, for two years he witnessed only one problem with this machine gun and that was because it had not been cleaned for a long time.

[Pimply]

There is a resource. For example, now it is 10000 shots of warranty. There were no questions about the reliability of the design itself. But do not you think that this reliability is a certain standard and absolute? The USSR had its own tasks - to massively equip the army with cheap weapons, Israel - its own.

In Galil, higher quality steel was used, and the phrase method, which gave a more reliable and resistant receiver, for example.

[sniper]

Quote: atalef

that Galil (in its modern form) is just a torn AK.

Alexander, well, why such conclusions ??? On the contrary, they wrote that Galil is a very high-quality, brought to mind machine, but based on AK, what is wrong ???

[Patton5]

Then all modern tanks (except Mekava and Strv 103) are copies of the FT-17

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

And what is not? It's a pity . A very useful thing.

What is useful? Unreasonably increased reserve volume, leading to an increase in mass?

The Israeli experience is probably useful. Ask - teach, we do not mind

Israeli experience- rip off the front of the MTO tank purchased from the French AMX-13?

[leon-iv]

Israeli experience- rip off the front of the MTO tank purchased from the French AMX-13?
her front MTO is relevant for protection against Kuma, and it protects very, very weakly from BPS.

[Lopatov]

From cumulative, too, does not particularly protect. Only frontally.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

From cumulative, too, does not particularly protect. Only frontally

Why did you decide that?

[leon-iv]

From cumulative, too, does not particularly protect. Only frontally.
There isn’t very good there are fuel tanks and so on. generally different environments. And the cops don't like that.

[Lopatov]

KS fuels very fond of. Like other flammable materials.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

KS fuels very fond of. Like other flammable materials

the first tank in the world with an automatic fire extinguishing system is the same Merkava as the one that switched from a hydraulic to an electromechanical drive system (which reduces the likelihood of a fire due to lack of hydraulic fluid)
Generally burnt Merkav - units (usually the first models) and a breakdown of armor, as a rule, did not cause fire or detonation.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

the first tank in the world with an automatic fire extinguishing system - this is the same Merkava

I don’t know about the first one, but the automatic fire fighting system was still on the German tiger

Quote: atalef

as well as switching from hydraulic to electromechanical drive system

the little one and the two definitely have electro-hydraulic drives - there are electric drives on the lekler. so you need to confirm that you had them before.

Quote: atalef

breakdown of armor, as a rule, did not cause fire or detonation.

Well, in Lebanon this rule was violated three times.

[atalef]

Quote: Kars

I don’t know about the first one, but the automatic fire fighting system was still on the German tiger

Kars, of course I understand that * Associate professor is an authoritative thief * but you don’t need to fall into demagogy. How Tgry burned and what kind of fire extinguishing system was there - we saw

Quote: Kars

Well, in Lebanon this rule was violated three times.

You will not find any Merkava burnt from hit by ATGMs, RPGs or Armor-piercing shells. Merkava hit the landmines in 100 kg and more clearly burned out and nothing was left of the crew. There is no protection against this at all.
Last minute T-72 from getting RPGs or ATGMs are fully full in UT, SSA delivers these videos as much as you like. Why T burn, but there is no Merkava --- expert comment pliz

Quote: Kars

there are electric drives on the leclerc. so it would be necessary to confirm that you had them before.

Maybe it’s on Leclerc (I believe you), but the electromechanical drive system makes Merkava (and so low-combustible) a tank practically not burned by conventional anti-tank weapons.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

How Tgry burned and what kind of fire extinguishing system was there - we saw

Vryatli you saw, and the fact that they burned is our merit. In this case, the automatic fire extinguishing system stood there

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT. Fire extinguishing system - automatic, with a threshold of 120 ° C. The alarm was displayed on the dashboard of the driver.

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/PzVIH/pzVI.php?page=2

Quote: atalef

You won’t find a Merkava burnt from an ATGM, RPG, or Armor-piercing projectile

Naturally I will not find, everyone knows the military censorship.
Ну

Quote: atalef

and there is no Merkava --- expert comment pliz

• 45 tanks were hit by ATGMs and RPG grenades, in total 51 missiles hit the tanks.
• In 24 cases (47% of the number of hits), the cumulative stream penetrated the armor of the tanks, apparently in 3 cases out of these 24 in the tanks the ammunition detonated.
• In total, about 60 BTT units received combat damage, including 48-52 tanks. 5 tanks were irretrievably lost - 3 from ATGM hits (one Merkava Mk.2, Mk.3 and Mk.4 each) and 2 from HE explosions (one Merkava Mk.2 and Mk.4 each).

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/history/2nd-lebanon-war/acv-losses/покажит
e all the photos and records of the expert commission then we’ll talk about who burned out, who didn’t.

Quote: atalef

Maybe there is a Leclerc (I believe you), but the electromechanical drive system makes Merkava

Yes, please, let him only confirm his phrase.

Quote: atalef

first tank in the world

Quote: atalef

as well as switching from hydraulic to electromechanical drive system

and all

[atalef]

Quote: Kars

45 tanks were hit by ATGMs and RPG grenades, all in all, 51 rocket hit the tanks.
• In 24 cases (47% of the number of hits), the cumulative stream penetrated the armor of the tanks, apparently in 3 cases of these 24 tanks detonated the ammunition, etc.

In general, it is clear - this is 2-I Lebanese. You did not check how many tankers died and from what?

b-Aviv correspondent of the publication Alon Ben-David. It says:
tanks (Merkava MK.2 / 3 / 4 ») produced more than 500 ATGMs;
13 tankers died;

That’s the whole conversation. You can say anything, but from the point of view of security - out of all the damaged armored vehicles, only 13 tankers died.
Of which 8 tankers due to landmines and only the remaining 5 from the use of anti-tank weapons.

Quote: Kars

and all

By the way, the first Merkava burns, I talked about 4.
You did not answer which tank (in your opinion) is more protected (in terms of crew survivability in battle) the T or Merkava family.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

That's the whole conversation

Indeed, the whole photo you bring as I see inconsistency. As well as to associate the fire with the death of the crew. Or you say that the crew in a fire it can be evacuated without loss?

Quote: Kars

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/history/2nd-lebanon-war/acv-losses/

• the armor of 22 tanks was broken, in 10 of them 23 tankers were killed;

Quote: atalef

By the way, the first Merkava burns, I talked about 4.

Yes, at least about 20, the fourth, in principle, was not particularly used in hostilities, in comparison with the T-72 and even Abrams.

Quote: atalef

You did not answer which tank (in your opinion) is more protected (in terms of crew survivability in battle) the T or Merkava family

It’s approximately the same that there, where the crews are seated on ammunition, replacing the T-72BV in the Second Lebanese Merkava would probably even reduce the losses. Now replace the T-72 Syrian troops with Merkava, and not just one to one, but with a cost factor too little has changed. It depends more on the enemy. its quantity and training - well, and the duration of the fighting. And of course the AOI equipment also played a role.
And for the stuffing, the Americans say that not one crew was dead because of the detonation of the BC, but Merkav has already three in the second Lebanon.

Quote: atalef

Incidentally, the first Merkava burns

Give a photo at least destroyed Merkav second Lebanon is comparable, only all three. not high-explosive.
And as for the automatic fire extinguishing system on the M60, it was also there, and they were delivered to the IDF

[atalef]

Quote: Kars

About the same

He laughed, well, God be with you. Do not see the obvious.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

He laughed, well, God be with you

You laugh in vain. You can still say that replacing the tanks of the federal troops during the New Year’s assault on Grozny with a merkava, something would have changed.
But you can already see that everything rests on patriotism. By the way, there is not a single innovation in the Merkava, the chassis from the Centurion, the cannon was first English, then the German, there was a pazhaotusheniya system before Merkava. Even KAZ Trophy, not new, there used to be a blackbird and arena .

Quote: atalef

Not see the obvious

Maybe you see what is not there?

[Tatarus]

Quote: Kars

But you can already see that everything rests on patriotism

Cool you ... Jew call patriot ... Strong

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

tanks (Merkava MK.2 / 3 / 4 ») produced more than 500 ATGMs;

Interestingly, this is what they thought? Even the oldest of those used in the Second Lebanese ATGM hit 0.63.

In my opinion, this is a clear example of propaganda with figures taken from the ceiling.

[atalef]

Quote: leon-iv

and from BPS it protects very, very weakly

Merkava 4 is the only tank with an armored tower roof (including a hatch (by the way, it’s one, the first models were with two,)

[leon-iv]

Merkava 4 is the only tank with an armored tower roof (including a hatch (by the way, it’s one, the first models were with two,)
Cho BTS holds

[atalef]

Quote: leon-iv

Cho BTS holds

What do you mean by BPS - there are several meanings

[Bad_gr]

Quote: leon-iv

Merkava 4 - the only tank with an armored tower roof (including a hatch

The hatch of the commander T-90

[img] https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7gVq_nO_GTEksn2ODHKe2PyYpjRhJJ_vJ6_LO

aRjplA? feat = directlink [/ img]

Gunner’s hatch T-90
[img = left] https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8PyXaaDnfjFacuHeFvVKPPyYpjRhJJ_v
J6_LOaRjplA? Feat = directlink [/ img]

[Lopatov]

An armor-piercing projectile (BPS) rarely hits the roof of a tower. Theoretically, this is possible, but practically not feasible. Is it possible to do this with an air gun.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Armor-piercing projectile

Well, you, my friend, are asking questions / How do I know. This is a question from the field , and T hold BPS.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: atalef

Merkava 4 - the only tank with an armored tower roof

And what about other tanks, the roof of the tower? from plywood?

[Alekseev]

Quote: atalef

Merkava 4 is the only tank with an armored tower roof (including a hatch (by the way, it’s one, the first models were with two,)

Would you any tank to try to lift the tower manhole cover without unloading torsion bar.
The words of the song would become very clear: "the country entrusted the soldier, to hold the steel armor in his hands"

You're wrong.
It is enough to try to open the hatch of any Soviet BT with a broken unloading torsion bar to understand the truth of the words of the old song: "The country entrusted a soldier to hold steel armor in his hands!"

You're wrong.
It is enough to try to open the hatch of any Soviet BT with a broken unloading torsion bar to understand the truth of the words of the old song: "The country entrusted a soldier to hold steel armor in his hands!"

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

What is useful? Unreasonably increased reserve volume, leading to an increase in mass?

You know - the infantry likes it, as it feels protected. Or is it safer to ride on armor?

Quote: Spade

Israeli experience- rip off the front of the MTO tank purchased from the French AMX-13?

Well, let's get back to the drawings of Leonardo Da Vinci.
If it has something like Merkava in it, then which of us

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

Well, let's get back to the drawings of Leonardo Da Vinci.

And what, your designer and he copied something?

Quote: atalef

If it has something similar to Merkava

And the front engine, which some consider the invention of the Israelis, is no longer considered?

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

And what, your designer and he copied something?

they generally say it was he who first invented the tank

Quote: Spade

And the front engine, which some consider the invention of the Israelis, is no longer considered?

Well, you still drag the caterpillars.

[Lopatov]

What, did the Israelis invent the caterpillars too?

[Pimply]

And why do you think Moses crawled through the desert for 40 years? 8) Tested 8)))

[Lopatov]

I do not like these jokes. Surely there is someone who believes that his country is the ancestor of something.

[Pimply]

Everywhere there are general trends. For countries at approximately the same level of development, the same solutions appear at about the same time. The first automaton with the same probability can be considered not the Fedorov automaton, but Bren, Browning or Madsen.

[Lopatov]

Here I am about that.

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

you know - the infantry likes it, how it feels protected

Really? That's why you did it? This is the airborne squad, not quite the airborne squad, even your compatriots noticed that it was uncomfortable to stay there for a long time. Like the plan to have a spare crew failed, so this is more an evacuation hatch.

Quote: atalef

If it has something like Merkava in it, then which of us

Yes, a copy)))) at least I would suggest Ferdinand and the aft sunroof is.

[atalef]

Quote: Kars

Really? Why did you do the intent?

If there would have been no need for him, Merkava -4 would have definitely refused him.
Namer - he has his own tasks. Merkava’s branch is his own.

Quote: Kars

Ferdinand and aft hatch.

Offer the submarine - it has the same several hatches or Hercules - the same hatch at the back

[Kars]

Quote: atalef

If there would have been no need for him, Merkava -4 would have definitely refused him

how can you refuse a BIG stern evacuation evacuation hatch?

Quote: atalef

Offer the submarine - it has the same several hatches or Hercules - the same hatch at the back

They have no tracks and MTO in front, does not fit,

[fzr1000]

For those who break spears about the "licked" layout with the front MTO at the Merkava. It was during the Second World War of the ACS Su 76 in the USSR. There the engine was located in front. Hooray, back to basics!

[leon-iv]

If it has something like Merkava in it, then which of us
Emm pre-engine layout and rear location of the tower. + Merkava has a pseudo-drum.

[Patton5]

You are a real demagogue !!! Themselves about the layout, the front in front, the controls in the middle, the rear combat, and now about the appearance!

[Aaron Zawi]

Mechanic
5 +!

[Slevinst]

damn idiocy

[Slevinst]

it’s possible for the tower to be installed at the rear, and the engine in front for normal weight distribution and additional protection, the merkava is very good at protecting the crew, so why not take what is better and who doesn’t care

[Hon]

Quote: atalef

well, half the site wrote boiling water claiming that Galil was a stolen AK.

Despite the victory in the Six Day War, the IDF command found that the FN FALs, which were armed with Israel, were less adapted to the conditions of battle in the desert than the Kalashnikov assault rifles fought by the Arabs. As a result, it was decided to create a new machine with a 5,56 × 45 mm cartridge, which could replace the FN FAL.

In 1969, the corresponding prototypes were demonstrated by engineers Uziel Galem and Israel Galili [3], as a result of which preference was given to the Galili version, which was based on the construction of the Finnish machine Valmet Rk 62 (a copy of AK), the production license of which was purchased by Israel and which Itself was a licensed version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle. In 1973, the Galil assault rifle entered service under the designation Galil, while its production was established by Israel Military Industries using equipment purchased in Finland.

Galil was not a stolen AK, but in a completely legal way, an acquired license, doped up to the requirements of the Israeli military. As for Armata and Merkava, there is very little in common besides a similar line-up.

[Flooding]

Quote: Mechanic

Now the prototype is B-48-1

Mechanic, what engine?

[Armata]

Quote: Flood

Mechanic, what engine?

Oops incorrectly wrote. B-84-1 of course, thanks for noticing the error. But if you take into account the change in mass and size, it is a little weak, so they are developing a new one, but I sort of cross-talk with UVZ, so I don’t have complete information on the project, only fragmentary as for my part of the work.

[leon-iv]

And exactly on the MTO tank it will be in front painful gnaws. Or is it a way to unload the suspension?

[atalef]

Quote: leon-iv

And exactly on the MTO tank it will be in front painful gnaws. Or is it a way to unload the suspension?

In general, the engine is in front and as a counterweight to the rear tower, on the contrary, they overload the suspension - therefore Armata will be uniquely heavier than the t-80 or 90. But the gain in security and a more convenient layout

[ATATA]

Spears do not break, but why not discuss? This is a site profile. We need to discuss everything, maybe someone needs something to pick up. One mind is good, and 10 is better. I generally think that it’s good that there is a game like WOT, because you can create a robot tank based on its algorithms. At least in the first approximation.

[Tjumenec72]

WOT is good in cognitive terms (at least it’ll get to know the world of tank building), but at least it’s not reasonable to build real models from the experience of the game.

[ATATA]

I’m not talking about tank models, but about the battle algorithm. Nevertheless, how many different tactics of attack and defense were tested there, given the number of battles, this is a huge and useful base for the future robot tank.

[Tjumenec72]

it's an arcade (not even a simulator). Please do not make people laugh ...

[Tuzik]

it even seems to me that a completely uninhabited tower is not very good, firstly, the crew’s evacuation is not possible from the stern (and this is a chance to survive behind the armor of the tank, and secondly, no one canceled the damage if the machine even happens (for example, skew from shaking ), you can’t fix it in battle anymore, and the commander’s observation devices cannot be mechanical.

[ATATA]

Quote: Tuzik

if even happens with a gun

And what if a sloth even happens?

Quote: Tuzik

completely uninhabited tower is not very good, firstly - crew evacuation is not possible from the stern

And where does the uninhabited tower?

Quote: Tuzik

and commander’s surveillance devices cannot be mechanical.

[AK-47]

It is interesting what functions are performed by two crew members sitting in the rear of the tank.

[Tjumenec72]

coal is thrown)))

[Val_y]

They also use foul language, play the balalaika, drink vodka, sing "Katyusha", well, in general, everything that is supposed (in the opinion of Western "partners") to be done by a Slav.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Val_Y

They also use foul language, play the balalaika, drink vodka, sing "Katyusha", well, in general, everything that is supposed (in the opinion of Western "partners") to be done by a Slav.

and when the crew is completely stunned, they will go outside and kick the ass for the bad guys

[bootlegger]

The concept as a whole is understandable. But the question of choosing the caliber of the gun is interesting for discussion. For me, two modifications of the tank are needed. With an exhausted 125 mm caliber and a tank with a 152 mm howitzer.
With the 125 mm caliber as a whole, everything is clear, and the 152 mm caliber could give the tank additional opportunities. And not even YaB speech, although it would greatly enhance the capabilities of the tank connection on the battlefield.
A tank with a 152 mm caliber cannon does not have to be equipped with an assortment of armor-piercing projectile shells, and this partly compensates for the problem of the reduced ammunition of such a tank.
A 152 mm caliber with a high-explosive, concrete-piercing or cumulative projectile will perfectly solve all the problems of counteracting the main battle tanks of the enemy. Such a caliber with a direct hit and even without breaking through the armor is unlikely to leave any enemy tank in working condition.
But most importantly, the capabilities of the gun as a launcher will increase.
The 9M119M Invar and 9M119M1 Invar-M missiles are certainly convenient, but the 125 mm caliber seriously limits their ability to overcome the armor of modern enemy tanks. It is unlikely that such a caliber will make it possible to seriously modify this ammunition. Of course, they can be used to destroy other enemy equipment, but they were created, first of all, to destroy tanks. Their task was to hit the enemy’s tank before he could fire an effective shot. It makes sense to shoot them at armored personnel carriers and trucks from a distance of 4 km only if there are no more dangerous targets on the battlefield.
A missile designed for a 152 mm caliber would give the tank enormous opportunities to destroy armored vehicles over long distances. The capabilities of such shells would be equal to those of the Kornet-E anti-tank missile system.
In addition, like Cornet, it would be possible to use effective thermobaric ammunition.

[Tjumenec72]

In my opinion, it is better to separate the functions into different machines on the same platform running in the same order:
1. MBT with rapid-fire "rail" + automatic cannon 23-30mm
2. BMPT with automatic cannon 45-50mm (with a high-explosive remote detonation bomb) + ATGM for 5-10 km
3. High-precision high-precision Arta - here you can 152
4. Target design machine with a bunch of drones
AND EVERYTHING IN ONE NETWORK!

[yanus]

Tjumenec72, OBDB forgot

[Tjumenec72]

yanus if the rail is embarrassing, let it be high-precision 125 mm)

[Val_y]

And there is such a baida of lemons under 200 "euros" for each

[Tjumenec72]

That damn and you can not dream)))

[super-vitek]

Tyumenets is handsome! And so that after hitting from the special niche autonomous repair droids fly out, and target designations from the "death star" come! No offense! He wrote everything competently, only very fantastic in my opinion !!!

[Tjumenec72]

Everything when it was fantastic)
In my opinion, there is an original (and most importantly, as it is supposed to be with us, ingenious in its simplicity) solution to that insurmountable energy problem for after-dispersal. I dare to suggest - that part knowingly excess energy released during detonation of a propellant charge can be converted into energy of the same electrical installation. All this happens simultaneously, nor any capacitors and batteries ...

[Lopatov]

Why so hard? Already have anti-tank missiles with a speed higher than that of a sub-projectile

[Tjumenec72]

With electro dorozgon speed can be increased significantly.
The kinetic energy of even a small projectile will be enough for the enemy (and this is a decrease in the size of the shells = an increase in their number and speed of reloading). + As a propellant, it is possible to use LMF (it is more convenient to control the volume of the mixture with a ballistic computer). And most importantly, shells are much cheaper than rockets.
-------------------
ATGM on BMPT - they hit them to the maximum distance as indicated by drones, MBT finishes breaking through ...

[bootlegger]

This is all wonderful, of course. For a near future.
Around the time when thermonuclear fusion and miniature nuclear reactors for tanks appear, because a railgun or a laser system needs a huge supply of energy and the main thing is the ability to produce huge peak power for a kinetic or electrochemical gun. And so far there is only some prospect of installing such structures on ships.
And LMW is primarily a charge, which consists of fuel and an oxidizing agent, and it can only be stored in a tank in a separated state. This means that mixing must be done immediately before the shot, after loading the projectile into the gun. And this mixing will take some time, because these are two chemical components Their mixing will not take place in a couple of seconds. This usually takes a time proportional to the minutes. And this will greatly affect the rate of fire of the gun using LMW.
In general, the idea with iron-ore-metal alloys is old, I heard about it about thirty years ago, and if it has not been implemented for all this time, it does not have any particular advantages.

[Tjumenec72]

All this is not realized because the Cold War ended.

[Alekseev]

So with a gun or with a howitzer?
So a tank or self-propelled guns?
And BPS is valuable not only for its high breakdown effect.
He has a very gentle flight path, which makes it not essential to accurately determine the distance to the target. (a direct shot at a tank-type target with modern tank guns is significantly more than 2 km), as well as an exceptionally high flight speed, which makes it difficult to miss moving targets and significantly reduces wind corrections, etc.
But the rest of the points are correct. And the 152 mm gun has already been tried on MBT more than once (vol. 292 for example)

[Predator-74]

I can not imagine how you can conduct an effective all-round visibility not from the tower. No, I do not want to say that this is not possible, but how ??? Complex periscopes? maybe a monitor with cameras ...?
In general, it is better to wait and see when everything is ready. Plus, the author is not for the article, but for the opportunity to reflect on this.

[Durant]

Not from a tower, just put cameras on this very tower (roughly speaking) and look at yourself as much as you like ...

[super-vitek]

It is desirable to have cameras with thermal imaging cameras, sensitive, long-range motion sensors. When you take into account if yours are marked with special marks of the "friend or foe" system, you can safely beat on any rustle in battle in order to exclude grenade launchers, snipers.

[cth; fyn]

What is there to guess? wait and see, until the autumn it is necessary to tolerate everything!

[Tjumenec72]

As far as I understand, in the fall, if they show it, then only the chassis with the layout of the tower ...

[cth; fyn]

Well, that means the tower is not ready yet, but for some reason, after the PAK FA glider worked, I’m sure that they will bring Armata! Is it possible to be at least a little optimistic?

[Tjumenec72]

PAK FA, by the way, also doesn’t quite fly with native engines (we didn’t have time on time with that product) ...
will bring where they get from us)

[cth; fyn]

So the AL-31F is a normal engine, and now it’s even exporting, and it has a controlled thrust vector, and it’s put it on the T-50 and will put it well or FN,
But both engines are brought to the series and are on cars. Maybe you mean the first or second car? 4th then everything is ready. Only radars and weapons need to be worked out.

[Tjumenec72]

I'm talking about the so-called engine of the second stage - which is its native.
The 117th was born since the 129th did not have time ...

[Oleleg]

The creation of any technology should be based on competition between enterprises, the only way success is possible. Top senility to create a tank by the forces of one enterprise and in a predetermined time frame. Why should they strain and do something breakthrough, they have already defeated them, they have tempered the development of the tank, and even when it will be ready to determine!

[vladsolo56]

Stupidity is utter. In the USSR, everything was created without competition and nothing worse than in the United States, and much better than the rest. The main thing is not competition, but the concentration of the brain to solve the tasks. But where there was competition there, protectionism decided exactly where those who had the most connections received the order.

[Black]

Quote: vladsolo56

In the USSR, everything was created without competition

You are absolutely wrong. There was competition, and even what, starting with small arms and ending with heavy! And when designing the fleet (at the project stage) there was very serious competition. And in rocketry !!!, and in aviation !!! - to remind you of what tough confrontations the struggle was in?
Good, worthwhile, great can only be born in conditions of struggle !!!

[vladsolo56]

And you ask how many magnificent inventions and projects were buried only for the reasons of the so-called competition, simply because someone had more connections in the ruling elite.

[Alekseev]

Not true.
It is enough to recall why there were 3 types of MBT, as well as a lot of design bureaus in aviation, rocket science, etc.

[Tjumenec72]

But what about the competition with Western cars? And in the civilized world, everything is set on a deadline ... it’s only minke whales can endlessly make their penguin)

[vladsolo56]

Example: Grad multiple rocket launchers, etc. Until a certain time in the West, such weapons were not produced at all, there was no competition, but they were improved and brought to the ideal. we don’t know everything from all the latest developments, but it’s not about competition, after the collapse of the USSR for almost 20 years, the defense industry stood still and that’s all competition, now something is starting to move.

[Galinanp]

In my opinion, all disputes are now useless, That's when they show, and when TTX will be available, then we bet.

[mihai_md2003]

Any tank can be destroyed. Another thing is how fast and in what conditions of the battle. What is the use of comparing an Israeli tank, designed to run mainly in the desert with our tanks, which should ride equally well in snow and sand. Yes, and a super duper new tank without an integrated control system and coordination of tanks in battle is worthless. No one is already looking through binoculars for 6 kilometers. Those who are more complex in their approach to the problem will have a better tank in a real battle, rather than in demonstrations, one tank and one target.

[deman73]

guys, of course, I wildly apologize and I'm not a tanker, but I know one thing for sure no matter which tank the main crew of this tank is I know for sure

[Durant]

Well, with outdated equipment, you won’t get much either ... although on the whole, of course, with all other things being equal, the crew decides everything.

[I think so]

The front location of the engine is a VERY BIG QUESTION (!). And it is not known there is more positive or negative.
The main problems with this arrangement are:
1. Congestion of the nasal compartment. Related to this are patency problems.
2. The front drive gear is EXTREMELY vulnerable even to small-bore ammunition. Mines will disable the tank MUCH MUCH more serious than with the rear gear drive.
3. Reduced track reliability. Caterpillars experience MUCH LARGE tensile loads.
4. Fuel tanks in front (?) - no armored capsules will help the crew survive ...

The whole construction of the "Armata" tank is one big QUESTION ... I think if the announced concept is embodied in hardware, it will be a GREAT STRATEGIC problem for the army. There are too many disadvantages to the given concept ... And the pros ... well, I see only one - the versatility of the platform for both BMPs and guns ... BUT (!) Why is this versatility? Versatility for versatility itself? In my opinion, the designers were ORIGINALLY set FALSE priorities - so they will create another fucker ... with which you will have to tinker for more than one decade, modifying and modifying it ... and then HEROICALLY return to the old (Soviet) concept ... and God forbid, this return will have to do in time of war ...

[homosum20]

Given our demographic situation (we have 142 million people, well, China - you yourself know, the states - about 300 million people, the EU - about 600 million people), people will be the greatest value in the war. In wartime conditions, both bucks and euros and rubles will become a conventional unit, the main unit will be labor costs and material consumption. We have doh iron ... on labor costs - well, we will not sleep.
"... a tank with a 152 mm cannon will be able to use tactical nuclear weapons, which may entail corresponding legal consequences." The one who wrote this was fucking crazy (for administrators - ate too much horseradish) finally. The Americans are deploying missile defense, legal guarantees that they are not given against us - and no legal consequences.
MBT is a weapon of world war. What are the legal implications? If we fail, there will be no one to judge. Do not lose - no one.
As for the machine gun, I'm an ignoramus. But, in my opinion, he must break through the standard wall of the house. 7,62 will not cope with this. So, you need a bigger one.

[mihai_md2003]

In general, it seems to me the correct comments about the 152 mm guns in the part of nuclear weapons, this is rather a plus. What international agreements?))) Tell prisoners of concentration camps in the 40s about the Geneva Convention. Another thing, now almost all shells for tanks of 125 caliber. The designers probably wanted to keep the possibility of their use. Another thing is to rework the automatic loader, because in T72-80-90 tanks it is impossible to use shells of longer length because of this AZ. In part, this is why the Abrams tank with the shells driving the barrel into the barrel of the Afro-American is now considered more effective. There is no such strict restriction on the length of the projectile. PS. By the way, in the USSR there were development of a bullet with atomic filling during the explosion, the equivalent of 500-700 kg of TNT, so I think 125 gauge is not a problem to make nuclear if necessary. But as they say, you need to look to the future and now it would be nice to lay the possibility of replacing the gun with a more powerful one if necessary. It was precisely this that at one time made the 34-76 tank from the T 43-34 tank in 85, which could already make almost all German tanks of that time come off.

[fzr1000]

Movie about Merkava 4.
According to Merkava 4, the presence of an airborne squad, external and internal appearance. We didn’t like the mass of 65 tons and the height, still more than 2,5 m. Our t-90 is 2,3 m. It is just as strange that you have to shoot a machine gun while climbing out of the tower. Well, shooting at fixed targets, you know ....

For those who break spears about the "licked" layout with the front MTO at the Merkava. It was during the Second World War of the ACS Su 76 in the USSR. There the engine was located in front. Hooray, back to basics!

[Selevc]

What is the difference where the engine will be located - in front of the tank or behind? In a future major war, the main part of the armored vehicles will be hit in the upper part of the hull and turret - that is, in the most vulnerable places ... At least with the same drones or guided missiles ...

The design idea in the field of tank destruction methods also does not stand still !!!

The promising Russian MBT has little to borrow from Merkava, and the main reason is that tanks are created for completely different theaters of war ... The Israeli heavy Merkava was created for a small-sized conflict ... Therefore mobility was sacrificed in defense ...

It is one thing to create a tank for a front of 100 km and another for a country with thousands of kilometers of distance and underdeveloped infrastructure ... Next - the Merkava tank was created for combat operations in the desert - to take such a tank somewhere in the Karelian taiga or in the Murmansk tundra (at temperature -40) - I think it will not last long ...

Further - the MTO in the front is certainly an interesting option ... But firstly, in the front it is much more vulnerable than in the back and secondly if urgent minor repairs are needed during the fighting, how do you order it to be found at the enemy's sight?

Next, about the landing squad !!! Is it really necessary to create a hybrid of MBT and BMP? Maybe Israel needs it ... And for Russia, the Soviet offensive strategy seems to me much more progressive ... In which tanks go in the first wave of the offensive by suppressing armored vehicles and strengthening the enemy and the BMP task is to deliver infantry to the front line for fire support of the same tanks and fight against enemy infantry ...

The only thing that I liked about Merkava was the availability of an external telephone ... For those who can always call and see for example a combat mission or just tell a joke :))))))))

[Lopatov]

Quote: Selevc

In a future major war, the bulk of the armored vehicles will be hit in the upper part of the hull and turret - that is, in the most vulnerable places ...

May be. But this is only one side of this issue. A defeat from above is possible only with the help of low-speed missiles. With which, alas, the complex of active protection can easily cope.

[Selevc]

I think that in the next 10-20 years a universal and inexpensive UAV will be created in which UAVs can bring a cloud to the battlefield ... And which can spend hours in the air effectively detecting and hitting armored vehicles ...

[Lopatov]

Who cares? You can also protect yourself from them with the help of an active protection complex.

[Selevc]

The main difference is that it will be easier and cheaper to make 10 drones than one tank ... And the experience of the Second World War shows that the one who produces a lot of inexpensive and versatile military equipment is victorious than the one who creates expensive and complicated !!!

[Lopatov]

Yes, even a hundred. Why do they if they have no opportunity to hit the target?

[Selevc]

Yes, you are too confident in the active defense complex ... if for example you have 10 tanks and the enemy has 100 drones, I deeply doubt that the active defense complex will reflect all the attacks ... Moreover, it has not yet been tested in a real battle with an equal enemy .. .

[Pimply]

To begin with, the enemy must have 100 drones. They are also not a penny.

[Selevc]

I think soon they will cost a penny in relation to the cost of the tank - and it’s worth considering that the manufacture of the tank will go up in time and the manufacture of UAVs, on the contrary, will become cheaper ...

And to this, the active defense complex has one significant minus - it is dangerous to use it in a situation when its own infantry is located not far from the tank ...

[Lopatov]

Of course I'm sure. Because developments in this area are moving further and further. And solutions like "cheap and cheerful" will no longer work.

By the way, are there any drones tested in battle against tanks? With an equal opponent?

[Selevc]

Wars in the Gulf have already demonstrated a very impressive UAV debut ... At least there is already experience in their use ... And then they will only be improved ...

Airplanes were once funny and plywood, but now it is a very formidable weapon !!! The same will be with the UAV ...

The same set of active defense is very publicized, but for some reason it wasn’t used in the same Chechnya where, in theory, it should have been able to effectively cope with at least RPG-7 shots.

[Lopatov]

Experience against tanks? Do not know.

Do not forget that active defense systems, both "soft-kill" and "hard-kill", are also being improved. At the same time, they do not have special restrictions on size, cost and weight, which will have to be imposed on massive anti-tank drones.

[fzr1000]

So far, rather, there will be 100 tanks with cover (both air defense and re), and 20 drones.

[lucidlook]

Quote: Selevc

And for Russia, the Soviet offensive strategy seems to me much more progressive ... In which tanks go in the first wave of the offensive, suppressing armored vehicles and strengthening the enemy and the BMP task is to deliver infantry to the front line for fire support of the same tanks and fight against enemy infantry.

How often in the past 20 years have you seen attacks of tank wedges racing on arable land and off-road? And how often have you seen tanks fighting in urban environments? Tactical orders of tanks and infantry in the city to throw, or in the know?

Further, on the topic of the location of the MTO, general considerations. MTO in front is covered with frontal armor of the hull - the most powerful. It will be difficult to break through it, i.e. additional protection (so to speak) is established in that area where protection is already the most. An attack from behind (from the same RPG) in this case will be even more effective, because there is no engine there, and no armor.

[Selevc]

Yes, just over the past 20 years, tanks have been very often used precisely in urban conditions - Chechnya, Tskhinval and the latest example - the actions of the Syrian army ... Even the video is full on the Internet - fighting in the city when Syrian tanks are ahead and their backs bmp ... I think that NATO also used tanks in urban battles in Iraq but it may not be so often and efficiently - because it’s probably more vigilant ...

Attacks of tank wedges are inevitable during large-scale military operations in the forest-steppe zone - of course - in the past 20 years, military operations have been conducted mainly in desert or urban conditions ... There is not enough arable land and off-road ... And in Russia there is plenty of this good ...

It was because of the skillful covering of their own tanks with infantry in urban battles that the Red Army at one time so successfully liberated so many large cities of Europe ... And it was because of the inept interaction of infantry and armored vehicles that the first assault on Grozny failed ...

Modern anti-tank systems like Kornet with a tandem warhead penetrate 1300 mm thick homogeneous armor - at least the developers say so ... I don’t think that the frontal armor of the Merkava tank can withstand the hit of such ammunition ... And even if the armor is not pierced, there is a high chance MTO failure and how to repair it? Or just throw a tank on the battlefield?

[Pimply]

There are quite effective evacuation systems. For example, out of 40 with few hits and 23 penetrations in the Second Lebanon, only five tanks were irretrievably lost, and three of them were on high-explosive landmines.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

only five tanks were lost, and three of them were on high-explosive mines

Two are on land mines, and at the same time, the Public is not comfortable with the degree of damage and non-repayable losses. In principle, if there is time and a plant, you can restore a bunch of scrap metal, while the numbers of the tower and the building will remain old.

[Pimply]

Sorry, two. And one from the ATGM - 2, 3 and 4.

[Aaron Zawi]

Kars
According to the report from MASHA 80% of the tanks wrecked during the VLV were returned to service after 48 hours.

[Kars]

Is it so bad? 20% didn’t - considering that your industrial capacities were not far from the battlefield, it looks tragic in general, against the backdrop of 28% of Abrams’ losses in Iraq over a two-year period (how much? Week? Two?)

[Selevc]

An effective evacuation system is very cool for Israel ... But for Russia, with its vast expanses, a situation will surely arise when 300 kilometers and a completely different repair will have to be done on their own and on the spot ... Therefore, tank survivability in Russian realities is one of the most important priorities ...

[lucidlook]

.

Quote: Selevc

Yes, just over the past 20 years, tanks have often been used in urban conditions

What am I talking about!

Quote: Selevc

Syrian tanks go ahead and their own BMP.

And where is the word "infantry" in this sentence?

Quote: Selevc

It was because of the skillful covering of their own tanks by infantry in urban battles that the Red Army at one time so successfully liberated so many large cities in Europe.

Really. And this is how it was (my emphasis):

"In the report on the combat actions of the 2nd Guards Tank Army in the Berlin operation, the actions of the assault group in the city are described as follows:"ahead of small streets were moving along both sides of the street groups of machine gunners with the task - to destroy the “Faustniks”, snipers who have settled in the houses, and suppress the firing points. Groups of machine gunners, following on opposite sides of the street, supported each other with fire. 50-100 meters behind themmainly staggered followed by tanks, who fired in the same order as the submachine gunners. The task of the tanks was - the destruction of machine-gun nests, guns and houses in which the Nazis stubbornly resisted. Along with the tanks and the tanks, the submachine gunners followed directly, protecting the tanks from the "faustics" and clearing the houses from the enemy. "

/ "The Legend of Doctor Faust", p. 15.
Moscow, "Science", 1978 /

[Pimply]

It is not necessary. There is an electric drive.

[fzr1000]

And then what does the shooter do with it? Does the battery change? Well, then remove this item.

[Pimply]

The standard tank battle position in Tsahal - the commander is looking from the tower - for a better view.

[Lopatov]

But does the open hatch not reduce the protection of the tank?

[Pimply]

Reduces, but the prospects for better visibility and advantages over the enemy outweigh

[evil hamster]

Dear author, the article evokes conflicting emotions since there are a lot of rather strange moments in it.
1.

Perhaps the most popular visualization of versions about the appearance of “Almaty” is a drawing by the artist A. Sheps. It depicts a tracked vehicle, vaguely reminiscent of the latest modifications of the T-90 tanks.

You can talk about another picture, in the same series of drawings there are some concepts with the front MTO? but in any case, what hangs in the article - this is the T90MS in person, how can you not notice the riddle.
2.

The appearance of the "lit up" layout suggests that the new armored platform will really get front engine compartment. In this case, the habitable volume will be located behind it, closer to the middle part of the machine.

Sorry, but WHERE is the front MTO on this layout? It is immediately obvious that the MTO is behind !!! I just can’t understand how you came to this conclusion?
3.

It is believed that it is precisely this arrangement of the power plant units that can significantly increase the protection of the crew in the frontal projection

Abstracting from the fact that the model with the rear MTO. In itself, this opinion is not true. Rather, it is true: it is true for lightly armored vehicles and false for MBT (a controversial issue for TBMP) Just look at the thickness of VLD Merkava and everything will become clear to you.
4.

The sides and feed of the new tank are unlikely to withstand serious armor-piercing ammunition. These, most likely, will be relatively thin (20-25 mm) sheets with additional screens.

Why such a conclusion actually? The thickness of the sides of the T72 is 80mm, it is extremely unlikely that the armature will be less. 20 mm is just a stupid figure, a board of this thickness will not provide not only mine protection, it risks losing stability if the tank lands hard from any hill. Just in case, the thickness of the bottom is T72 22 mm.

[evil hamster]

5.

The power plant of the new tank is likely to be created on the basis of existing units. This will provide the necessary characteristics, and also will not lead to a delay in development time or a serious increase in the cost of finished tanks

How sorry it fits with your own statements about the front MTO. Maybe we have serial tanks with front MTO and GOP? Oh, no, what a shame, then what "existing" units are you going to put there?
6.

At the same time, in recent years, Russian designers of Transdiesel GSKB have created a new A-85-3 diesel engine with a capacity of about 1500 horsepower. With the highest possible boost for a short time, this engine is capable of delivering more than 2000 hp.

There is an opinion that it will stand there, but the "opinion" believes that the diesel will be derated to 1350 hp. in order to reduce the volume of the cooling system and, accordingly, MTO, which seems to be about. 195 turned out to be not small. But it is clear that such boring things are of little interest to those who like to glue tanks, give them 2000 horses
7.

Assembling a full-fledged capsule with subsequent installation inside the case also does not look impossible

Dear author, are you sure you haven't taken the substance before writing? "capsule" - this is the separation of the crew separated from the fuel and ammunition by armor, that's all, nothing beyond the natural, it is not worth breeding entities. In a sense, if you throw out 6 shells from the stowage in the BO M1A2 hull, it is also a capsule of its kind.
8.

a tank with a 152 mm caliber cannon will be able to use tactical nuclear weapons, which may entail relevant legal consequences

Yyy undoubtedly this is the decisive argument for 125mm I’m embarrassed to ask, what about the Msts, Acacia and the Genocides, they can use tactical nuclear weapons, and this can have legal consequences ...

[super-vitek]

It seems that this drawing is closer to the topic.

[evil hamster]

9.

It is likely that the "Plant number 9" is currently working on a new smoothbore gun for promising cannon armored vehicles

Og there is such a probability, and there is also the possibility that it is curled 2A82 and is a byproduct of creating 2A83 for about 195, and they are developing it already very well.
10.

Uninhabited fighting compartment tank "Armata" will definitely have automatic loader

Cap are you ???

You have one forum in the sources, the competency level of the participants of which sharply exceeds all your other sources, you would read it more often. For you excuse me, but the article is rather stupid, of course there may be different opinions for many points, but to make out in the VLD MTO is something with something.

[bask]

Quote: evil hamster

exceeds all your other sources, you would read it more often. For you excuse me, but the article is rather stupid, of course there may be different opinions for many points, but to make out in the VLD MTO is something with something.

But it’s real. Only you, the “evil hamster,” noticed no docking. In the main picture .T -90
But people tend to make mistakes sometimes.
Full MBT ,, Armata, from the series, not to be seen until 2020
And China continues to intensify its Type-99 grouping.
Russia somehow needs to answer this challenge. And this is a real threat from China.

[SPACE]

All to all all against whom are going to fight? I wonder who and what is going to attack treacherously Russia, that tanks will be needed? Well, is there a T-72 that you are missing? We can better raise the salaries for doctors and teachers, otherwise one horseradish will roll a couple of skating rinks.

[Pimply]

China, for example. Few?

[Durant]

Strictly speaking, China has smaller problems ... so it makes little sense to rush at once at a big neighbor ... especially since its population is not growing, we already provide them with resources ...

[mihai_md2003]

Do you think China will rush at us like this in 20 years, in the evening we will sit down for a consultation and decide that we would like to have tanks of a new size 2, and preferably three. In the morning we got up, and they all stood on the Red Square, and even with the crews. But seriously, there is no word early on the defense issue, it is rather late. It is still unknown how the Second World War would end if we didn’t have such advanced systems as T34 or Katyusha on time. And by the way, the T34, too, did not appear out of the blue, it used the previous developments. So now after T90 Armata appear after Armata some kind of super Armata. Only in this way will the road go by.

[SPACE]

Bumpy "China, for example. Not enough?" Are there any more examples? I'm trying to imagine this ... "how 10000 Chinese tanks are storming the borders in the Far East, and another 2 million ground army and thousands of aircraft," right? Question: what will save you? Armata? well, well, blissful naivety! Sometimes it seems to me that the Armata project was invented only in order to satisfy the patriots, such as calmed down. The next revolution in tank building will happen when scientists invent the ANTI-GRAVITATION GENERATOR!

[ultra]

Quote: SPACE

I'm trying to imagine ... "how 10000 Chinese tanks storm the borders on

You are not a science fiction writer by profession!

[SPACE]

ultra
"You are not a science fiction writer by profession!" But in essence that there is a thread? Scientists are visionaries, ... for them that 1000 or 10000 is not a problem, do you have doubts? Just what does it change?

[ultra]

Quote: SPACE

But essentially, what is the thread?

There may be a thread! The fact that China is a potential threat No. 1 in the east is a fact, but it is not in 10000 thousand tanks and not in the military component at all, at the moment! It seems to me that the main threat is posed by the "creeping" expansion of the Chinese to the eastern regions of Russia!

[SPACE]

And Armata at what or are you going to crush her?

[mihai_md2003]

Dear cosmos, well, let's fantasize in such a scenario. Simplified of course I'm not the beginning of the General Staff. The Chinese are storming Russia, we are destroying their centers with nuclear weapons, they are ours. We hit tactical nuclear weapons at large concentrations of troops, we are according to them according to us. Yes, the damage is huge, but the war did not end. And then what will you ride there on bicycles? and solve problems?

[SPACE]

mihai_md2003 "... Yes, the damage is huge, but the war is not over. And then what will you ride on bicycles there? and solve problems?" Against who? Do you seriously think that they will be combat-ready after that?
Well, for starters ... Aviation has an advantage over the TU-160, TU-22, TU-95 ground forces. You can imagine their power, they can plow everything without nuclear weapons, and that's not all, SU-24, SU-34, SU -25, and also MI-24, MI-8, MI-28 ... Well, Points with Iskanders. Such a war as the Second World War means tactics, will not be. And the tank is given the task of sweeping and moving walls, T-72 for the eyes. In general, tank blasphemy and wastefulness with a tank, for this it is better to use mines, active and passive, ATGMs, ATGMs, RPGs.

[fero]

And what engine will they stick in the chassis ... will they return to the gas turbine engine by chance?
And as I understand it, dvig. will be the same for all three vehicles (MBT, BMP, self-propelled guns) yes?

[Durant]

they wrote about the engine above ... whether they lie to the gas turbine engine there is a fundamental possibility to return given the front location of the MTO ... and whether the engine is lying will be the same for everyone ... the masses are different (most likely) ...

[Larus]

I get the feeling that until 20 they will feed us information about the new tank, and after that they will present the restyled model T-90 (like with Kalash) and say that everyone would love it .....

[super-vitek]

How many comments! The topic is burning! I really look forward to "ARMAT". I hope that our designers will embody the best of the Soviet school in the new platform, with the introduction of a new generation of protection systems, a complex of weapons, navigation, communication systems. I wonder what type engine will be equipped with a platform. Specifically for the T-90. Such a machine, in my opinion, in our conditions should become the main battle tank, only with all available "gadgets", and "ARMATA" will be supplied to the formations of the districts of the alleged theaters of military operations, in terms of permanent combat readiness. And preferably not 5 pieces for "PARADS".

[dsf43rewdsg]

Imagine, it turns out that our authorities have complete information about each of us. And now she has appeared on the Internet in free use at nutshellurl.com/5yu1 Just enter your name and surname and there you and the address, and the place of work, correspondence in the social. networks, and even found my intimate photos, I can’t imagine where it came from ... In general, I was very scared. But there is also good - the data can be deleted, I used it myself and I advise you ...

[bubble82009]

first you need to evaluate in the future what types of weapons will be and what tasks will be performed in the future by MBT. and then talk about the appearance of Almaty. definitely the tank should be with an uninhabited tower. motor in front. make the gun a smaller caliber and equip it with universal tank-plane missiles. Establish an active security system. with the current development of video technology it is necessary to install monitors and cameras for mechanics

[stock sergeant]

Driving and shooting a tank "on TV" is good in words.
Even TVN (a mech-water night vision device strongly creases the "picture" due to
changing engine speeds, while in place with battery power all
seen perfectly. The night sight also requires a voltage stabilizer.
I don’t know how now, but in the beginning of the 70s there were no such devices yet. Can and
"on TV", but the speed will be turtle.

[bravo-fab]

Merkava has got its own low-protected elements and units, easy to overcome for penetrating of AT shells, how ever this metioned tank one of the best tanks ever been developed by the Southern State, designers followed soviet and german tank motto, the issue that this tank is developed by focusing on such questions as particular ussage in particular areas, i would compare this tank in the aviation line. Such chopper as Mi-24, it has a troop modul and fire power as weel as protection out of the small firearms, it could not be compared with Ka-50, 52 or Apatche. This is an unique tank. Also Israel developed this tank within its own patent resources and independently. Here is some info in brief http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6QYl1hlLaE

[Alekseev]

Heated discussion of the future platform. Someone, like a "dog in a bastard", grabbed the Merkava, who gives him a reasonable "shock".
A lot of options for appearance ...
And what, in fact, is the BTT platform?
This is not the appearance of the hull and weapons, which, of course, will be different for the tank, self-propelled guns, TMM and so on.
The essence of the platform is a set of single units and assemblies. Unified engine, transmission units, suspensions, unified caterpillar tracks, PPO and PAZ systems. Communication and management tools of one family.
But the case (and appearance) are different.
But in fact there were almost no comments.
The impression of a lot of photos - like in a plastic toy store visited.

[bask]

Quote: Alekseev

The essence of the platform is a set of single units and assemblies. Unified engine, transmission units, suspensions, unified caterpillar tracks, system

A SET OF NODES AND UNITS SHOULD BE ONE.
But the line-up of any MBT.
XK-2, Type-10

[ramsi]

tell me, is the only way a mechanical driver should get out of his mousetrap?

[bask]

Quote: ramsi

live, and the only way a mechanical driver should get out of his mousetrap?

Они . Японцы ,,маханькие,,как нибудь вылезет.[media=Экипаж 3%20человека%20Размеры%20и%20вес%20Вес 44%20т%20Длина%20(с%20пушкой%20вперед) 9,48%20м%20Длина%20корпуса ~%207%20м%20Ширина %203,24%20м%20Высота 2,3%20м%20Вооружение%20Главное%20оружие 120-мм%20гладкоствольная%20Пулеметы 1%20х%2012,7-мм,%201%20х%207,62-мм%20Высота%20над%20уровнем%20моря%20диапазон ?%20Traverse%20диапазоне 360%20градусов%20Боекомплект%20Главное%20оружие ?%20Пулеметы ?%20Мобильность%20Двигатель дизель%20Мощность%20двигателя 1%20200%20л.с.%20Максимальная%20скорость%20по%20шоссе 70%20км%20/%20ч%20Диапазон ~%20500%20км%20Маневренность%20Градиент 60%%20Уклон 30%%20Вертикальный%20шаг ~%201%20м%20Траншея ~%202,7%20м%20Преодолеваемого%20брода ~%201%20м]

[ramsi]

in my opinion, apart from moving the turret backward, nothing can be invented in the slightest degree acceptable for evacuating the crew from the hull. I do not know how on "carrots" with their corridor, but if it is even possible there, then it is all the same, this method is incompatible with an automatic loader

[trenkkvaz]

The tank will be called T-90Y. Why s? So that the enemies do not guess.

[ivachum]

"Why Y? So that the enemies would not guess."


What do you!!!!!!! It is impossible !!!!!!!! North Korea will be offended ........

[Semyon Albertovich]

Only Russian equipment can protect Russia. And practice will prove that it is better, therefore, make units on the tanks of different competitors and see, and it will immediately become clear which is better; unless of course the watchers will have state interests, and not the MZDA.

[Genoezec.]

Wow, how many comments. and some of the first are clearly inciting ethnic hatred

[ramsi]

again the woodpeckers trampled the whole clearing, and not for the first time

[tomich]

no one expects anything from our defense industry, stop amusing yourself with illusions

[fzr1000]

Well don't wait ...

[Hoist]

152 mm is certainly interesting, but these are additional difficulties. At a minimum, you will have to compensate for the increase in mass and recoil force. Maybe on this side it’s easier to increase not the caliber of the gun, but the length of the projectile for the same 125 mm?
I am still interested in the moment, so to speak, of the weight distribution of the entire system. It turns out that in the front-engine layout due to the fact that there will be massive frontal armor and the engine, and possibly a transmission, it turns out that the center of gravity is significantly shifted forward (by the way, where will the fuel be located?). As far as I remember, the Merkava developers also faced this in due time. And if now the mass of the frontal armor is compensated by the mass of the engine in the rear and in the center there is a rotating tower with an ammunition depot, then the classic layout in terms of weight distribution looks much more balanced.

[Hoist]

152 mm is certainly interesting, but these are additional difficulties. At a minimum, you will have to compensate for the increase in mass and recoil force. Maybe on this side it’s easier to increase not the caliber of the gun, but the length of the projectile for the same 125 mm? All the same, 152 mm - this is more the lot of self-propelled guns.
I am still interested in the moment, so to speak, of the weight distribution of the entire system. It turns out that in the front-engine layout due to the fact that there will be massive frontal armor in front, and the engine, and possibly a transmission, it turns out that the center of gravity is significantly shifted forward (by the way, where will the fuel be located?). As far as I remember, the Merkava developers also faced this in due time. And if now the mass of the frontal armor is compensated by the mass of the engine in the rear and in the center there is a rotating tower with an ammunition depot, respectively, and the load falls evenly over the entire area of ​​the supports. In this regard, the classic layout in terms of weight distribution looks much more balanced.

[Hoist]

I don’t understand anything, I left a comment twice, and both times after a while he disappeared ...

[aleks-s2011]

Quote: evgenii67

Quote: Vladimirets

Why be different? Merkava is one of the best, if not the best, tank

Eugene, I greet you !!!! You would be more careful in expressions, otherwise a long, without productive discussion may flare up, tk. there are many topics whose armor is stronger, whose tank behaves better in what conditions, etc., because I can write the T-90SM or the German Leopard 2A7 or the English Challenger 2, but in the end the Ukrainian "Oplot" is one of the best and conversations will be oh how long

[alexpro66]

In Ryabov, Cyril also gives pearls! It can be clearly read the writings of the Mechanics and does not even look at the pictures that post !!)))
A paragraph from the article: "The appearance of the" lighted "model suggests that the new armored platform will indeed receive a front engine-transmission compartment. In this case, the habitable volume will be behind it, closer to the middle part of the vehicle. It is believed that this arrangement of the power plant units allows significantly increase the protection of the crew in the frontal projection.It should be noted that the best protection in this case is provided at the cost of the engine and transmission performance, because a shell hitting the tank, breaking through the frontal armor, can seriously damage the engine. will suffer. "
And here is the "lighted layout" http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/788/cyte232.jpg
Cyril answer - looking at the photo - what gave you reason to expect that the MTO will be forward ????
This is not even a jamb-it's profane!