Roads of the Gods. Official Science Doesn't Want to See Traces of Ancient Civilization

346
Roads of the Gods. Official Science Doesn't Want to See Traces of Ancient Civilization


Golden age


Myths and legends of almost all nations and tribes contain information about the golden age of mankind. About a global catastrophe, the "war of the gods", which destroyed the great civilization of "gods" and "demigods". Moreover, traces of this antediluvian civilization remained all over the planet in the form of cyclopean structures, pyramids, temples, bas-reliefs, etc., which are impossible to build even with the help of modern technology.



However, the classic version stories tells only about primitive people and the Stone Age. People are imposed with the "classical" (academic) picture of the world: primitive darkness and ignorance - Ancient Egypt - Ancient East - Ancient China and India - Ancient Greece - Ancient Rome - barbarians, mainly Germans and Gauls - barbarian kingdoms - European Middle Ages - Modern times, etc.

Somewhere in the 8th–10th centuries, “wild” Slavs appeared who “prayed to stumps.” Civilization was brought to them by noble Germanic Scandinavians, Swedes, and Greek missionaries. They were given statehood, writing, and religion. The first princes were the Swedes Rurikovichs.

History winners write. The current history of mankind was written in the interests of the masters of the West. Where the Romano-Germanic and Biblical "classical" schools were created. In particular, the history of Rus' was cut off at the moment of baptism in 988.

Others went even further. Thus, current Ukrainian "historians" broadcast that Kievan Rus is supposedly the history of Ukrainians-Russians, Ukraine-Rus. And Muscovy allegedly arose much later.

The problem is that over time, information accumulates that does not fit into the "classic" version of history. And there is more of it, and it is more difficult to hide. The information age has arrived. It is no longer possible to simply eliminate or denigrate, silence one or two indefatigable researchers who dig where they should not.

Traces of an ancient civilization


A pyramid that is 25 thousand years old was found in Indonesia. That is, at that time, according to the "classical" version, it was the Stone Age, people lived in caves and could not build such complex structures.

The Gunung Padang (Mountain of Enlightenment) pyramid, located on top of an extinct volcano in West Java, Indonesia, may be the oldest pyramid in the world, according to a study published in the journal Archaeological Prospection.

Archaeologists have studied the structure of the pyramid using electrical resistivity tomography, seismic tomography and ground penetrating radar. They have found that the pyramids were built over many thousands of years and that there may be hollow chambers inside the pyramid.

"The study sheds light on the existence of advanced building technologies during the last ice age, when agriculture was not yet practiced,"

- make Conclusion of the authors.

At the same time, there are many such megalithic structures in Indonesia and in the Pacific Ocean area as a whole. And the technologies used to create these megaliths are amazing. People knew how to build from blocks weighing hundreds and thousands of tons, they cut marble and granite like butter, and created absolutely impossible patterns on megaliths.

True, the world mafia, which hides the true story, immediately became alarmed. They say, an attack on the canons. At that time, according to the "academic" version, people were running around with clubs and digging sticks. A fuss began, and the publication about the pyramid in Indonesia was withdrawn.


Gunung Padang - Mountain of Enlightenment

The Mystery of Antarctica and the Egyptian Sphinx


Official science is silent about early medieval maps, for example, about the map of Admiral Piri Reis (Reis). This is a geographic map of the world, created in 1513 in Constantinople by the Turkish admiral and cartography enthusiast Piri Reis (full name - Hadji Muhiddin Piri ibn Hadji Mehmed). It contains an image of both Americas (they were not yet officially discovered) and Antarctica, which was discovered in the XNUMXth century, and without ice.

The southern continent first appeared on medieval maps, and only then was it discovered. Obviously, Antarctica still holds some secrets. In particular, the British and the Nazis dug there. The Germans in the 1930s and early 1940s searched the entire planet for traces of the civilization of the "gods."

Another trace of the "gods" is the traces of rain erosion on the Egyptian Sphinx. And now they are almost invisible: most of the Sphinx is closed and cleaned up by modern "restorations". There are also traces that the Sphinx and the pyramids were flooded in the past. Which indicates a major catastrophe (the biblical flood).

In 1990, Boston University geology professor Robert Schoch studied the statue and its fence. The scientist came to the conclusion that the Sphinx had strong traces of water erosion – it had been watered by tropical rains for hundreds, if not thousands of years. And there had not been any of that for many millennia, meaning the monument was built long before the pharaohs. According to Schoch – somewhere around 10-11 thousand years BC. Geology is a fairly precise science, the mechanisms of erosion have been studied well and can be calculated.

Soon the Sphinx was plastered over, so that the particularly smart ones wouldn't come up with their conclusions. They say that the Sphinx and the pyramids were built by slaves at the behest of the pharaohs. By hand. Anything else is heresy!

In Egypt, the erasure of genuine historical evidence and its falsification has been going on for a long time. The French and the British were engaged in this. Now, everything that does not fit into the official version is immediately hidden and classified.

The Volga, Siberia and Amazonia hold the secrets of the true history of mankind


Official science stubbornly refuses to see traces of an ancient civilization in the taiga and jungle.

Numerous lost cities have been discovered in the Amazon jungle, connected by an extensive network of roads, using modern technology.

Opening done Scientists from the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), using a very simple technology called Lidar (Light detection and ganging). Its principle is the same as an echo sounder, only a laser beam works. The distance to the surface is measured; trees are not an obstacle in this case. After that, a 3D model of the area is created based on the data obtained. The study was conducted in Ecuador.

Academic scientists are trying hard to ignore all of this – according to their theories, there shouldn’t be anything there. But it is there, you can go there and touch it with your own hands. But for some reason, no one goes there and studies it.

Lost cities in the Amazon jungle are a well-known topic. True, until recently they were purely legendary, like El Dorado.

In fact, there are many such traces of an ancient advanced civilization all over the planet. They are in North America, in our European part of Russia, in Siberia and the Arctic.

So, in the European part of Russia is located the Great Trans-Volga Wall. Its surviving remains. An incredible defensive wall, stretching across the entire Russian Trans-Volga region for more than 2 kilometers - from the Astrakhan region to Tatarstan. Then this earthen wall turns to the east and disappears somewhere in the foothills of the Middle Urals.

The rampart today is a preserved earthen embankment, along the foot of which a ditch extends, up to 3 meters deep. The embankment reaches 5 meters in height and up to 70 meters in width. In its original form, the wall had even more grandiose dimensions. The creation of such a structure required absolutely colossal efforts and costs. Obviously, only a highly developed northern civilization could have created it.

This information does not fit into the official version of history, so only enthusiasts and supporters of alternative versions of history try to raise the topic.

Ideally, in Russia today we need to recreate the Russian “Heritage of Ancestors”, to restore the true and authentic story world and Russian civilization.


Section of the Great Trans-Volga Wall
346 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +18
        1 October 2024 06: 21
        Quote: Tlauicol
        Autumn.

        "Archaeologists have studied the structure of the pyramid using electrical resistivity tomography, seismic tomography and ground penetrating radar. They have found that the pyramids were built over many thousands of years and that there may be hollow chambers inside the pyramid."
        So, research is being conducted? It is being financed... Very expensive equipment is being used. The results are being written about... And then we read - "everything is secret, everything is being classified..." How is that possible? The contradiction is striking. But the fact is that the research results are being processed for years. It is not customary in science to overthrow the foundations based on a couple of stones found. This is how it differs from pseudo-scientific journalism. And here is a fresh example: a model of a boat (and not just one) was found in Tutankhamun's tomb, and it was placed in one of thousands of boxes for storage. No one hid it or "classified" it on purpose. But they ended up in different places! People can make mistakes! As a result, it was exhibited for a long time without a mast and sail. And only recently, by chance, someone looked into the box "with unidentified objects" and figured out what was what. Now the model has been restored in its entirety. It took... exactly 100 years.
        1. +22
          1 October 2024 06: 54
          As for the Indonesian pyramid, you just need to look at the English-language Wiki
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunung_Padang
          And it says there: Pottery fragments found at the site were dated by the bureau of archaeology in the range 45 BCE–22 CE.
          The dating, which gave the age of 20000 years, was made on samples of natural rock. The theory of great antiquity was promoted by the Indonesian not even an archaeologist, but a geologist Natawidjaja, on the order of the Indonesian president. Apparently, the syndrome of "Russia - the homeland of elephants" in one form or another is found all over the world.
          1. +8
            1 October 2024 08: 02
            Quote: Nagan
            Apparently, the "Russia, the homeland of elephants" syndrome is found in one form or another throughout the world.

            That's right! "We are great, we are mighty, higher than the Sun, bigger than a cloud!"
          2. +18
            1 October 2024 08: 38
            Good morning. For some reason nothing was said about the Black Sea. :-)))))How did it come into being? If you look at Ukrainian textbooks, it all started there. That's where you should start looking. A joke, if anyone didn't get it.
            1. +6
              1 October 2024 15: 56
              Most likely it was dug up by the ancient Rus, whose merits were appropriated by the Ukrainians. fellow
          3. +9
            1 October 2024 10: 00
            Apparently, the "Russia, the homeland of elephants" syndrome is found in one form or another throughout the world.

            I often mention Marija Gimbutas' hypothesis about the origin of the Proto-Indo-European language in the Volga steppes and the Southern Urals. And about elephants, in order for the human brain to develop, abundant protein food is needed. So the highest density of the last mammoths and other woolly rhinoceroses was in the tundra-steppe
            coincides with the places of origin of the Proto-Indo-European language according to Gimbutas' Kurgan hypothesis. And archaeological finds in the form of the most ancient burial of a domestic horse and the most ancient spoked wheel only further confirm this hypothesis. We must...we must doubt, we cannot live by dogmas. Maybe Russia is the homeland of elephants
            1. +4
              1 October 2024 14: 44
              Maria lived a long time ago. Since then, many other discoveries have been made.
              1. +5
                1 October 2024 18: 49
                Maria lived a long time ago. Since then, many other discoveries have been made.

                Which confirm her hypothesis and more and more of her supporters among very serious scientists.
            2. +2
              Yesterday, 21: 59
              Sinashta - the most ancient chariot found, Arkaim, other cities...
        2. 0
          1 October 2024 18: 27
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Autumn.

          "Archaeologists have studied the structure of the pyramid using electrical resistivity tomography, seismic tomography and ground penetrating radar. They have found that the pyramids were built over many thousands of years and that there may be hollow chambers inside the pyramid."
          So, research is being conducted? It is being financed... Very expensive equipment is being used. The results are being written about... And then we read - "everything is secret, everything is being classified..." How is that possible? The contradiction is striking. But the fact is that the research results are being processed for years. It is not customary in science to overthrow the foundations based on a couple of stones found. This is how it differs from pseudo-scientific journalism. And here is a fresh example: a model of a boat (and not just one) was found in Tutankhamun's tomb, and it was placed in one of thousands of boxes for storage. No one hid it or "classified" it on purpose. But they ended up in different places! People can make mistakes! As a result, it was exhibited for a long time without a mast and sail. And only recently, by chance, someone looked into the box "with unidentified objects" and figured out what was what. Now the model has been restored in its entirety. It took... exactly 100 years.

          Sorry Vyacheslav, but I disagree with you. I don't know if you've heard about the study of Egyptian mummies, but in Germany they analyzed mummies and it turned out that a THIRD of all the mummies studied contained cocaine and nicotine. As is known, these substances appeared in the Old World 3-4 thousand years later after Columbus discovered America, BUT they were found in ancient Egyptian mummies!!! After confirming the results in several independent laboratories, scientists tried to publish the results, but ALL LABORATORIES, when they found out that they had to confirm the results in the presence of Egyptologists, UNANIMOUSLY refused, citing the fact that they did not want to conflict with too strong a lobby. They were afraid of being left without funding. Another example. Until recently, a wooden figurine resembling a dove but with a VERTICAL tail was displayed in the Cairo Museum. No bird or flying animal (insect) has a vertical tail. And the wing of this figurine does not correspond to the proportions of a bird (it is longer and narrower). And above the vertical tail there are traces indicating that at one time there was a horizontal tail. After the appearance of a film about this figurine (in this film they made a computer simulation where they claimed that the figurine has very high aerodynamic quality and this is not a model of a bird but rather a model of a glider) the figurine itself disappeared from the exposition!!! There are many examples. hi
          1. +5
            1 October 2024 18: 34
            Quote: nedgen
            or rather a model of a glider) the figurine itself disappeared from the exhibition!!!

            So what? And the golden glider, the Mochika, also with high aerodynamic quality, is still lying in its place in the museum. And nicotine and cocaine... Ha, when these mummies were opened, all the archaeologists smoked cigars and pipes, and their women sniffed cocaine. It was fashionable! The material of mummies is porous and easily absorbs tobacco smoke, and even more so cocaine, which was on the hands of enthusiasts. And... how did you know that ALL the laboratories refused. Source? There are a lot of tales... And if it is our Russian, then it is not worth a dime. Name the material from the publication in the West...
            1. +2
              1 October 2024 18: 55
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: nedgen
              or rather a model of a glider) the figurine itself disappeared from the exhibition!!!

              So what? And the golden glider, the Mochika, also with high aerodynamic quality, is still lying in its place in the museum. And nicotine and cocaine... Ha, when these mummies were opened, all the archaeologists smoked cigars and pipes, and their women sniffed cocaine. It was fashionable! The material of mummies is porous and easily absorbs tobacco smoke, and even more so cocaine, which was on the hands of enthusiasts. And... how did you know that ALL the laboratories refused. Source? There are a lot of tales... And if it is our Russian, then it is not worth a dime. Name the material from the publication in the West...

              Or maybe you can show me the materials on the basis of which you made the conclusion that all the tales about the ancient civilization are not true? I once watched a documentary film, I think on the Discovery Channel about mummies, and also on the same channel I watched a film about a wooden glider figurine. By the way, in the same film there was also about Mochica figurines. They are essentially 5-7 cm in size. And all these golden figurines had a wing at the bottom of the body and a vertical tail. And another modeler made enlarged copies of the figurines with engines and radio control and confidently lifted them into the air. I am not saying that the Mochica flew, but most likely they SEEN something on the basis of which they made these figurines. And also about the documents. There is such an ancient Indian treatise Vimanika shatra. In Sanskrit. When it was studied, it turned out that this is essentially a guide on how to make and repair a vimana. (In Sanskrit, flying machines.) Scientists who studied vimanika became rich when they managed to decipher what the words of the compositions from which certain parts were to be made meant. It turned out that modern science does not know these alloys. When the alloys were made at the university, it turned out that their properties corresponded to those described in the book. They patented these alloys and sold the patents.
              1. +5
                1 October 2024 18: 56
                Quote: nedgen
                The scientists who studied Vimanika became rich when they managed to decipher what the words of the compositions from which certain parts were to be made meant.

                How is it known?
                1. +1
                  1 October 2024 21: 02
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Quote: nedgen
                  The scientists who studied Vimanika became rich when they managed to decipher what the words of the compositions from which certain parts were to be made meant.

                  How is it known?

                  What is known from where? How did they decipher the composition of the alloys or how do I know? Well, documentary film again. And they figured it out when they studied a lot of other texts and probably partly by trial and error. By the way, the creator of the American atomic bomb, Oppenheimer, himself wrote that he borrowed the idea of ​​implosion from the Mahabharata.
                  1. +2
                    1 October 2024 21: 13
                    Quote: nedgen
                    documentary films

                    Unfortunately, this is not a source. I worked on TV for 10 years and filmed "documentary stories"... putting the chairman of a collective farm on his knees in a wheat field in June to show a high harvest in August. His vacation was in July, and the story was supposed to come out in August. And no one doubted it... All these are "hot facts", skillfully presented so that people would find it interesting. They teach this, I even have a textbook for universities. It's called "Technologies of Public Opinion Management". That's why I prefer to believe either documents with a seal or artifacts. What is not cross-referenced - let it lie until better times. However, there will soon be material about cross-references, how one is verified by another... Go to VO.
                    1. 0
                      1 October 2024 21: 15
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: nedgen
                      documentary films

                      Unfortunately, this is not a source. I worked on TV for 10 years and filmed "documentary stories"... putting the chairman of a collective farm on his knees in a wheat field in June to show a high harvest in August. His vacation was in July, and the story was supposed to come out in August. And no one doubted it... All these are "hot facts", skillfully presented so that people would find it interesting. They teach this, I even have a textbook for universities. It's called "Technologies of Public Opinion Management". That's why I prefer to believe either documents with a seal or artifacts. What is not cross-referenced - let it lie until better times. However, there will soon be material about cross-references, how one is verified by another... Go to VO.

                      I agree with you, but ordinary people don't have access to the documents. I assume that you don't have access to the "airplanes" of Mochik either. laughing
                      1. +1
                        1 October 2024 21: 30
                        Quote: nedgen
                        I assume that you don't have access to the "airplanes" of Mochika either

                        There is! I can write to any museum in the world, explain who, what and why, and in 50% of cases they answer me and always give me what I need... Otherwise I wouldn't work here.
                      2. 0
                        1 October 2024 21: 31
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Quote: nedgen
                        I assume that you don't have access to the "airplanes" of Mochika either

                        There is! I can write to any museum in the world, explain who, what and why, and in 50% of cases they answer me and always give me what I need... Otherwise I wouldn't work here.

                        I envy you, but as I said, I am an engineer, not a historian, although I am interested in history.
                      3. 0
                        1 October 2024 21: 32
                        Quote: nedgen
                        I am an engineer,

                        Everyone has their own job, and it has its pros and cons.
                      4. 0
                        1 October 2024 21: 40
                        I have sent you two books by mail. The first one is planned for publication, the second one has already been published and will be out before the New Year. I can't send pictures with them, sorry. Only the text itself. I hope you find it interesting and useful.
                      5. 0
                        1 October 2024 21: 42
                        Thank you very much. I will read it at the first opportunity. hi
              2. +1
                1 October 2024 19: 06
                Quote: nedgen
                Or maybe you can show me the materials on the basis of which you came to the conclusion that all the tales about the ancient civilization are not true?

                I would be glad to, but the list will be so big that VO will not publish it. I currently have over 2000 articles on VO and another 300 on Pravda.ru. This does not include paper ones in magazines since... 1980 and books... And this is all the result of long and persistent self-education. I don't know how to share this...
                1. +2
                  1 October 2024 19: 21
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Quote: nedgen
                  Or maybe you can show me the materials on the basis of which you came to the conclusion that all the tales about the ancient civilization are not true?

                  I would be glad to, but the list will be so big that VO will not publish it. I currently have over 2000 articles on VO and another 300 on Pravda.ru. This does not include paper ones in magazines since... 1980 and books... And this is all the result of long and persistent self-education. I don't know how to share this...

                  By the way, I really like your articles about rifles, but please don't do as most historians do. If there are no records, it didn't happen!!! I'm an engineer after all and I prefer to rely on logic, no matter how incredible it may seem, than on someone's theory cobbled together from shards. Especially since most historical works are exactly that. They are based on written sources, but mostly on the works of historians before them. And as for ancient history, only logic remains. There are no documents or even writings on stones from those times, and if they remained, no one can read them. By the way, some historians declare the Piri Reis map a fake because, you see, the rivers of South America are not exactly where they flow now, but who can say how many old sources Piri Reis used, especially since he himself wrote that he made the map based on much more ancient maps. For example, the Yellow River has changed its trough several times over the past couple of hundred years. Unfortunately, regarding my sources, I can't quote them, unfortunately I just don't remember most of the sources. I read somewhere, watched a documentary somewhere. I really like documentaries, although I know very well that there, as in most (if not all historical documents), there is a lot of subjectivity. hi
                  1. -1
                    1 October 2024 20: 39
                    Quote: nedgen
                    If there are no records, it means it didn’t happen!!!

                    I never thought so. I have a book about the Bronze Age, I'm trying to publish it, and for a long time there was no writing at all. If it comes out, it will be here...
                    1. +2
                      1 October 2024 21: 05
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: nedgen
                      If there are no records, it means it didn’t happen!!!

                      I never thought so. I have a book about the Bronze Age, I'm trying to publish it, and for a long time there was no writing at all. If it comes out, it will be here...

                      And I didn't say what you were doing. I just asked you not to do it, which is not the same thing. wink.
                      I am not Russian and not from Russia. Maybe you could send me at least part of the book by email? It's just impossible to buy anything from Russia now (sanctions, damn them)
                      1. +2
                        1 October 2024 21: 14
                        Quote: nedgen
                        Maybe you could send me at least a part of the book by email?

                        That's an idea! I think I have a text from the publisher... Send me the email address in a private message.
                  2. 0
                    Yesterday, 23: 45
                    Quote: nedgen
                    By the way, the Piri Reis map
                    About the so-called "Piri Reis". To begin with, it would be good to figure out whether Piri Reis is a name or something else?
                    Actually, it's not Reis, but Reis (variant - Rais). In the history of the Ottoman Empire, commanders, admirals, chiefs and other leaders who actively demonstrated themselves in action were called reis. This word was usually added to the officer's name as an epithet, for example, it was given to famous sailors Piri "Reis", Turgut "Reis", Hizir "Reis" and others. And this name was truly popular, and therefore deserved, because a person who was called a reis enjoyed love and honor. Now, although unofficially, in modern Turkey the address "reis" is applicable to the heads of political parties, municipalities and the state.
                    At the everyday level in Turkey, this is how Erdogan is often called - for example, when men get together to talk about politics and discuss the latest decisions of the authorities, they often hear: "Reis said that the economy will improve", "Reis announced an increase in the minimum wage", Reis this, Reis that. And they say this not mockingly, not disparagingly, but rather with delight and even with bated breath.
                    And the name of this admiral was Muhiddin Piri Bey. By the way, according to the official version of history, Muhiddin Piri Bey was executed in Cairo in 1554 or 1555, almost personally by the Cairo governor (pasha) Dukan Zade Mehmed Pasha. Historians claim that Muhiddin Piri Bey was an admiral of the Ottoman fleet in the Indian Ocean, which was based in the Egyptian city of Suez. And as soon as he left the ship for a short time, thanks to envious people and traitors, a report was sent to Istanbul from the Egyptian governor (pasha), who stated that the admiral had abandoned his fleet in Basra - after which the Istanbul Pasha ordered the immediate execution of Muhiddin Piri Bey in Egypt. However, here it is worth paying attention to the year of birth that historians have established for Muhiddin Piri Bey. They agreed to consider that Muhiddin Piri was born between 1465 and 1470. That is, in 1554 he was 89 years old (and if he was executed in 1555, then all 90). And if we consider that Muhiddin Piri was born in 1470, then at the time of his execution he was 84-85 years old.
                    Forgive me, but in such venerable years one does not command fleets. And in the Ottoman Empire such venerable aksakals were executed in very rare, one might say exceptional cases, with the sanction of the Sultan.
                    So, it is clear that the matter with Muhiddin Piri Bey is murky. hi
            2. 0
              Yesterday, 23: 16
              Quote: kalibr
              Source? There are many fables...And if he is our Russian, then he is not worth a dime.
              Wow!!! What a disdainful attitude towards your own country. am . Even more, some kind of contemptuous foreign agent attitude. And this from a person who taught the History of the CPSU for decades!!!! bully However, maybe this attitude is based on your deep knowledge of the "kitchen" in which your fellow domestic historians prepare their rotten products? Well, here is the cherry on the cake. First, a disdainful attitude towards your country, and then, as they said earlier, servility to the West.
              Quote: kalibr
              Name the material from a Western publication..
              This is the swamp into which the teachers of the History of the CPSU are sliding!!!
              But if you want your favorite Western, you'll get it. Will the University of California suit you? Article American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies
              http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htm
              However, you can google the expression American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies yourself hi
              1. 0
                Today, 07: 37
                [quote=Seal][quote=kalibr]Source? There are many fables...And if he is our Russian, then he is not worth a dime. [/quote] Wow!!!
                The article will do. But have you read it yourself?
              2. 0
                Today, 07: 45
                So let's read. And I was not mistaken - our media did not publish such materials, so my attitude towards more informed sources is clear.
                It would be silly to quote the entire article. But here are the most interesting excerpts: It is also interesting that the concentrations of the compounds suggest use other than abuse. (For example, modern drug addicts often have concentrations of cocaine and nicotine in their hair that are 75 and 20 times higher, respectively, than those in mummy hair samples.)
                Another criticism by Schaefer (1993) is that Balabanova et al. may have been victims of fake mummies. Apparently, people (living in the not-so-distant past) believed that mummies contained a black resin called bitumen, and that it could be ground up and used to cure various ailments. In fact, the word "mummy" itself comes from the Persian "mummia," meaning bitumen (Discovery, 1997). It appears that a business developed in which recently deceased bodies were deliberately aged to look like mummies, and that some of the perpetrators of such acts were drug addicts.
                "The argument that the mummies might be modern fakes was explored by David (Discovery, 1997). David is Keeper of Egyptology at the Manchester Museum and has carried out her own analysis of the mummies, independent of Balabanova's group. She also travelled to Munich to independently assess the mummies studied by Balabanova's group. Unfortunately, the mummies were not available for filming and they had been sequestered from further study for reasons of religious respect. David had to consult the museum's records. She found that, with the exception of the city's famous mummy, Henot Tawi (Lady of the Two Lands), the mummies were of unknown provenance and some were represented by only severed heads.
                Продолжение следует ...
                1. 0
                  Today, 07: 55
                  Read on ...
                  “As surprising as it may seem, the evidence for early Old World sea voyages to America is not scant—and should not be underestimated. In the last two years, two periodicals devoted to these contacts have been founded. The first, entitled Pre-Columbiana, is edited by Stephen C. Jett, professor of clothing and textiles at the University of California, Davis; the second, entitled Migration and Diffusion, is edited by Professor Christine Pellec in Vienna, Italy. There are, of course, many false reports of early Old World contacts, but the general disregard for all the evidence is itself evidence of academic malpractice, as these two periodicals demonstrate.”
                  Here is the conclusion: "The initial reaction to Balabanova et al.'s findings was highly critical. These criticisms were not based on known shortcomings in the authors' research methodology, but rather were attempts to cast doubt on the study's conclusion—that cocaine and nicotine were brought to Egypt from the New World before Columbus. This conclusion is unacceptable to conservative students of the past. In fact, it suggests a deep-seated aversion to what Balabanova believes might mean to unravel aspects of history that contradict basic reconstructions. This aversion, according to Kehoe (1998), stems from the belief that Indians were primitive savages destined to be conquered by the civilized world—that the pinnacle of evolutionary success lay in the conquering race itself. "Wild children could never have crossed the oceans."
                  "Balabanova's findings provide further evidence that humanity is not so easily pigeonholed into preconceived notions of primitive and advanced — even if that involves the supposed technology of earlier times. The drive to discover — to seek out new worlds — is not just a modern selective advantage of our species. It may be its defining characteristic."
                  Wonderful, isn't it? But... Thor Heyerdahl was already thinking about paleocontacts between Egypt and America. And he sailed on RA and RA-2. So the only new thing here is that... his hypothesis has finally found some confirmation. That's all!
                  1. 0
                    Today, 18: 29
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Wonderful, isn't it? But... Thor Heyerdahl was already thinking about paleocontacts between Egypt and America. And he sailed on RA and RA-2. So the only new thing here is that... his hypothesis has finally found some confirmation. That's all!
                    Again, kindergarten. To believe, based on the voyage of the respected Thor Heyerdahl, that there were paleocontacts between Egypt and America is the same as, based on the record of, say, the runner... what was his name, Bolt, to claim that people can run a hundred meters in 8 seconds. fool
                    There were paleocontacts, of course. But where? Across the Bering Strait, which freezes in winter!!
                    And also perhaps and even most likely, were between the Europeans and the American continent. I believe that there was a time when the Gulf Stream reached only the British Isles and the border of the eternal ice was shifted far to the south, to a line from Bergen, Norway to the Faroe Islands, then with an exit to Iceland, southern Greenland and further to Newfoundland. And the Europeans (Vikings???) during this period on their fragile little boats in the summer could calmly along the edge of the eternal ice, get to Iceland, Greenland and America. Since in this case there is no need to worry about fresh water, firewood for fires (as a rule, there is a lot of driftwood on the edge), food (seals, seals, bears live on the edge). Shuga dampens the waves, and in the case of some super-storm, the boat can be easily pulled out to the edge of the eternal ice.
                2. 0
                  Today, 18: 15
                  https://www.stoneageherbalist.com/p/the-mystery-of-the-cocaine-mummies
                  In 1995, two more researchers examined an Egyptian mummy dating back to around 950 BCE and found that the man had died from internal bleeding caused by a lung parasite. They also presented chemical analysis for traces of THC, nicotine, and again, cocaine. Not only that, but their tests showed that the drugs were concentrated in various organs, THC in the lungs, and nicotine/cocaine in the liver and intestines, supporting the hypothesis that they had used these drugs in life!
                  1. 0
                    Today, 18: 21
                    Quote: Seal
                    https://www.stoneageherbalist.com/p/the-mystery-of-the-cocaine-mummies
                    In 1995, two more researchers examined an Egyptian mummy dating back to around 950 BCE and found that the man had died from internal bleeding caused by a lung parasite. They also presented chemical analysis for traces of THC, nicotine, and again, cocaine. Not only that, but their tests showed that the drugs were concentrated in various organs, THC in the lungs, and nicotine/cocaine in the liver and intestines, supporting the hypothesis that they had used these drugs in life!

                    I read an article about this in an American magazine. I even quoted excerpts from this article here in the comments. Look ABOVE your comment - there are two excerpts. The translation is very accurate. What can I say? Interesting. Once again I was convinced that Thor Heyerdahl was right when he wrote about ancient contacts between America and Europe and sailed on his RA.
              3. 0
                Today, 07: 57
                Quote: Seal
                However, perhaps this attitude is based on your deep knowledge of the “kitchen” in which your fellow domestic historians prepare their rotten products.

                It can't be, but it's for sure! I rewrote my dissertation three times so that it would definitely fluctuate with the party's policy. So I guess I'll agree with you that in the USSR history was not a science by definition.
        3. 0
          Yesterday, 23: 05
          Quote: kalibr
          In science, it is not customary to overthrow the foundations based on a couple of found stones.
          That's how it is in science. But what about History? After all, History is not a science. And it was created not just on a couple of found stones, but on the basis of the subjective perception of "antiquity" of those writers who created history.
          1. 0
            Today, 07: 34
            Quote: Seal
            History is not a science.

            Really? Then physics is not a science. String theory is not confirmed, the nature of gravity is not clear. One says one thing, another another. No one has ever seen atoms. There is nothing to hold on to, unlike history. For example, there is no current in the wires. I felt...
            1. 0
              Today, 17: 57
              Quote: kalibr
              Really? Then physics is not a science. String theory is not confirmed, the nature of gravity is not clear. One says one thing, another another. No one has ever seen atoms. There is nothing to hold on to, unlike history. For example, there is no current in the wires. I felt...
              Oh-oh-oh, it's like kindergarten. You'd think you'd groped A. the Great or J. Caesar. fool Or felt them? You even touched their busts, on which the authors would have written during their lifetime, from whom these busts were created. laughing
              I have already explained to you that there are criteria of scientificity. They were not established by me and not by you. So Physics satisfies all the criteria of scientificity, but History does not satisfy more than 50% of these criteria.
              And to stoop to the level of "oh, there is no current in the wires, I felt them" is really child's play. However, you can make sure that there is current in the wires. Just take the wire that is under voltage in your sweaty hands laughing laughing laughing
              1. 0
                Today, 18: 08
                Everything you wrote about the criteria in history is there!
                Quote: Seal
                Just take the wire that is under voltage in your sweaty hands.

                Can you prove that it is the current that is beating?
                Quote: Seal
                But to stoop to the level of “oh, there’s no current in the wires, I felt them” is really childish.

                And it turns out you don't even understand jokes. Although you've learned to download grinning mugs from the Internet. And you don't need to explain anything to me. You're not the kind of person I'd listen to. I have a diploma, it says "candidate of historical sciences". And as we know, you're only a person with a "piece of paper", and without a piece of paper "you're a piece of shit", and it's not fitting for me to listen to "pieces of shit". It would be beneath my rank.
                1. 0
                  Today, 18: 45
                  Quote: kalibr
                  I have a diploma, it says "candidate of historical sciences". And as we know, you are a person only with a "piece of paper", and without a piece of paper "you are a piece of shit", and it is not proper for me to listen to "pieces of shit". It would be out of place.
                  Well, you missed the mark with the rank. I suppose that you don't have a rank. But I do. hi Moreover, both the federal and regional civil service. It is not my place to listen to such a lawless crowd as you, who only have a certificate stating that he is a "candidate of historical "sciences" laughing laughing laughing
                  There are many candidates of various "sciences" wandering around the world.
                  Here is the Academy of Astrology. There are doctors of astrological sciences and, of course, candidates.
                2. 0
                  Today, 18: 47
                  However, at least Astrology was not included in the list approved by the Ministry of Science.
                  But theology (and its derivatives) entered.
                  Or, would you like "Doctor of Sewer Sciences"? laughing
    2. +2
      1 October 2024 06: 13
      Category "History", you will notice
    3. +3
      1 October 2024 08: 54
      Is this really something that needs to be published on VO?

      But the Patriarch warned... wink
      https://www.rbc.ru/politics/24/09/2024/66f2f9589a79479b340aa0bb
    4. -2
      1 October 2024 08: 58
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      the world mafia that hides the true history
      Is this really something that needs to be published on VO?

      To broaden people's horizons.
    5. +7
      1 October 2024 09: 15
      And why not, the History section, and here they publish about Streets in the opinions section and nothing. hi
      1. +6
        1 October 2024 14: 43
        Quote from AdAstra
        And why not, the History section, and here they publish about Streets in the opinions section and nothing. hi

        You brought up the streets in the opinion section, to the point... I didn't understand at all what streets had to do with it...
      2. Alf
        +1
        1 October 2024 19: 53
        Quote from AdAstra
        And why not, the History section, and here they publish about Streets in the opinions section and nothing. hi

        This is different ...
    6. +7
      1 October 2024 09: 58
      Yes, a complete collection of fake news.
      1. +4
        1 October 2024 16: 43
        Quote: Andobor
        Yes, a complete collection of fake news.

        And you, as a specialist in all areas of human activity, know this for certain.
    7. +5
      1 October 2024 10: 19
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      Is this really something that needs to be published on VO?

      Actually, I read this yesterday on the site "Kont", it was the third part of a series of articles about ancient civilizations by Alexander Mikhailov (at least that's how the author of the series was designated) and the article was more extensive than this one. The only thing that's not clear is that there was a ban on publishing articles from other sites, supposedly the site needs its own authors, and here - either the author writes under different pseudonyms, or it's a compilation... request feel
    8. +4
      1 October 2024 12: 40
      Same question, let him wave a shovel and a pick at the excavations and then start babbling. Well, yes, all historians are stupid, they don't learn anything there, but here comes a sly guy and tells everyone everything about the grenades not being of the right system.
    9. +4
      1 October 2024 16: 39
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      Is this really something that needs to be published on VO?

      There is a section called "History" on VO. Do you think this only applies to military history?
    10. 0
      1 October 2024 19: 07
      Conspiracy theorists, flat-earthers and other non-flyers, fans of all kinds of mysticism, are everywhere with their fabrications, this is pathology! lol
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 10: 02
        or maybe the pathology is in blockheads who believe only what is written in the textbook, and then when the textbook is changed they write that they always thought as it is written in the new way.
        1. 0
          Yesterday, 17: 25
          Textbooks exist to learn, to gain knowledge. Those who simply read them, and nothing remains in their heads, begin to issue theories like the flat Earth!
          By the way, do you know what the diameter of the flat Earth is, if it is round? Or the length and width, if it is square? Or maybe I read the wrong textbooks. lol
          1. +1
            Yesterday, 17: 34
            It's strange, because the flat earth was written about in textbooks, but the "conspiracy theorists" and "morons" of that time wrote about the spherical earth and the fact that the Sun does not revolve around the Earth, but on the contrary.
            By the way, you didn't know that sorcerers made iron birds and they fly? I swear to God I'm not lying, I not only saw them but I also flew them myself, and according to textbooks and the most important scientist on the planet, the authoritarian, stated that heavier-than-air devices cannot fly. It's good that not scientists but ordinary mechanics took up aviation. By the way, according to legends, the pyramids and idols of Easter Island were built with the help of songs (sound), what do you think, heavy stones couldn't be built with sound? Is this unscientific or could conspiracy theorists be right?
            1. 0
              Yesterday, 17: 42
              Sorry, but I have neither the time nor the desire to discuss all this nonsense! hi
              1. 0
                Yesterday, 17: 45
                Yes, I know, the limited have neither the knowledge nor the experience to discuss anything more complex than what is described in the news, and I have already encountered many, many times that those who shouted that they are well educated and can explain all the questions and incredible examples were also called nonsense, but after a couple of examples they had things to do, time and desire disappeared just so as not to break the illusion that he understands something in this world.
  2. +14
    1 October 2024 05: 23
    Thank you. I've always loved the work of flat-earthers.
    1. +18
      1 October 2024 06: 09
      Quote: kuks
      I've always loved the work of flat-earthers.

      The funniest thing... In 1968, I first read Kazantsev's article in T-M about all this... And I became an ardent follower! Here we must also add Baalbek, the Nazca plateau, the golden plane of the Moche Indians and the man in the rocket from the Mayan tomb... And so, being an adherent, I wrote a lecture about it, and went to the OK VLKSM, so that I, a student (after getting married in 1974), would not be sent to a collective farm. And... they did not send me! They made me a lecturer of the OK VLKSM and with this lecture - "Mysteries of the Ancient Land" I began to travel and give it. I also added about aliens... How could we do without them. And when they asked me where they were now, I would drawl in a sepulchral voice: "We are still flying back!" But the more I read about all this, the more inconsistencies and outright stupidity and manipulations I saw, and finally quantity turned into quality. I gave up on the "adeptship of the ancient super-civilization" and "aliens", and began to dig into archives, manuscripts, effigies and finally lost faith in what I loved so much at the age of 14-21. I probably read too much... Which I advise everyone else to do. Because from the first, so to speak, time, you can only fall in love with this "teaching" in this way.
      1. +15
        1 October 2024 06: 25
        And could become the second Fomenko, Vyacheslav Olegovich laughing
        1. +10
          1 October 2024 06: 29
          Quote: Tlauicol
          And could become the second Fomenko, Vyacheslav Olegovich

          You know, yes. But I remember well that at some point I just felt... ashamed. Ashamed to play on people's ignorance. And then I lectured on the history of the CPSU with the same glowing eyes... I also parasitized on people's illiteracy. But I'm not ashamed of that, because I myself knew nothing, but repeated (artistically!) what the "senior comrades" ordered. That is, I served as a high-quality tape recorder. I was an instrument in the hands of the party. I didn't think about anything in particular, and why should I? I only started thinking about it when I worked in the archives and defended my dissertation. But then I was simply scared. But with "this" it's a different matter. It was mine, my own... "Favorite...". Ugh!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +3
            1 October 2024 08: 35
            "Was an instrument in the hands of the party" And at first was an instrument in the hands of aliens. Some kind of instrumental orientation you have. I was disappointed in both. And what did you come to on the road of disappointments? It is clear that aliens and ancient civilizations are a dubious thing, but the history of the CPSU is right there. Right next to it. You can touch it with your hands. And you don't have to be a tape recorder, just have eyes and intelligence to understand what was and what you came to. There is such a method of knowing the world, it is called comparative analysis.
            1. +7
              1 October 2024 08: 43
              It's easier to be a tape recorder than a researcher. laughing
              1. +7
                1 October 2024 09: 23
                Quote: Gomunkul
                It's easier to be a tape recorder than a researcher.

                Especially when you're not really allowed to research. Trotsky's books, Chayanov's... everything was classified. Referring to them was forbidden, even if you managed to glance at them. What was the point of looking at them then?
                1. +1
                  1 October 2024 10: 06
                  Especially when you're not really given the chance to explore.
                  I agree with you and those who wrote above that history is written by the winners. I just want to understand who defeated whom?
                2. +1
                  1 October 2024 12: 48
                  What are you personally not allowed to explore? Do you know what archeology is, for example? Not the definition, but how it is conducted. For example, why are excavations divided into squares and what is stratigraphy? The discoverer of Troy, Schliemann, for example, like the woodpecker that he was, ruined everything. An archaeological site is explored once, everything else remains in the reports.
                  1. 0
                    Yesterday, 17: 54
                    The woodpecker turned out to be smarter than the scientists? Well then what are these scientists worth if the blockheads are smarter than them?
                    1. 0
                      Today, 08: 05
                      What does smarter mean? Believe me, scientists simply put a device on all this, I don't put it on because I'm not a scientist, but in general the dog barks - the caravan moves on.
                      1. 0
                        Today, 08: 09
                        Well, if the "woodpecker" was able to find something that even some smart scientists couldn't find for a very long period of time, then it's logical to assume that the "woodpecker" is smarter and was able to "find" sources that even some smart scientists "couldn't". Or the "woodpecker" was smart enough to understand the idea that if someone described something at a time closer to the events, then he could know it better than those who lived thousands of years later. Some smart scientists still haven't had this idea.
                      2. 0
                        Today, 08: 44
                        Or to blow into the ears of unreasonable citizens, which is legally called fraud. Well, for example, there is such a Viktor Suvorov, in the worldly life Vladimir Bogdanovich Rezun. He even influenced some heads of historians, I was studying at the time, they were analyzing him at the seminar, I read several books myself, in one, there was no Internet, at least not publicly available, caught him in a specific lie, not in a mistake.
                        Maybe such a nugget? Yes, maybe, I know one, only he first studied the methodology of historical research, albeit independently, familiarized himself with the principles of historicism, i.e. the person did deep internal work and I frankly don't care what regalia he has, except for combat, veteran of Afghanistan.

                        But more often it's the other way around and I don't take commercial stuff, like the new chronology, everything is clear there, but there are plenty of weaker scribblers who write popular science, I don't see anything bad in it. But at the same time they claim to be scientific, and that's a big problem. We had a big company in my youth, and I somehow hinted that I was interested in fortification, and then one of the opinion leaders with a straight face tells me exactly the following: there is nothing simpler. We assessed the scale and scope of his flight of thought, damn, there is nothing simpler for him.
                      3. 0
                        Today, 08: 53
                        I don't remember who I wrote to here about Indiana Jones and the moment where he told the student - if you want to become an archaeologist, get out of the library more often. For example, I don't like third-party "new creations", well, about Tartary, Hyperborea and so on. I have reasons to adhere to my point of view, and there are many of them, but that's not what I'm getting at. In search of evidence for my point of view, I wandered alone through the Urals and Siberia, and I saw a lot of what I read in books on "new history" with my own eyes and I had a choice to believe scientists and their books or my own eyes, I, like the last bastard, chose the latter, and by the way, if you walk alone, then nature stops "fearing" you and you can see a lot of things that don't concern history at all, but probably what is shown on Ren-TV programs, only you will see it not on TV, but with your own eyes. After such trips, you look at official history as if it were Goebbels' books
                      4. 0
                        Today, 09: 08
                        Your comparison is not good, Indiana Jones is not an archaeologist, I can gallop to the branch of the Institute of Archaeology in 7 minutes. You did not waste your time, fresh air, physical exercise, but you frankly cluttered your head.
                        I first went to an excavation when I was 13. Your Jones has the same relation to archeology as an astrologer has to astronomy. What you saw there is one thing, the other thing is how you interpreted it. I find it incredibly funny what you wanted to do with your walks? That is, idiots are writing a methodology for historical research.
                        Opposite my house in Simferopol on the Petrovsky rocks lies a settlement, Neapolis-Scythian, if you were dragged there, you wouldn’t understand what kind of settlement this is, except for the stupid tower, it was built in Soviet times for some reason, and the cleared pieces of excavations, I would throw earth back, it’s called conservation.
                        So believe me, science, there is no unofficial science, doesn't give a damn about various freaks and obscurantists. But what irritates me most is that there are those who think that historians have been sitting on their asses for generations, there is even a fable about the pieman and the shoemaker.
            2. +4
              1 October 2024 09: 23
              Quote: oleg Pesotsky
              There is a method of understanding the world called comparative analysis.

              In the USSR, comparisons could only be made with 1913.
              1. +2
                1 October 2024 10: 17
                What's wrong with that? We didn't have mechanical engineering, today we have mechanical engineering. We didn't have automobile manufacturing, today we have the automobile industry. We didn't have aircraft manufacturing, today we have it /History of the CPSU. Stalin's speech/ What do we have today? We had aircraft manufacturing, today we don't have it. We had automobile manufacturing, today we don't have it. It would take a long time to list what was there and what was destroyed. In 1947, after 30 years of Soviet power, no one would have thought that things were better under tsarism. I have nothing against weapons, armor and the Middle Ages, it's quite interesting, but we need to live not only for today but also for tomorrow.
                1. +3
                  1 October 2024 11: 06
                  Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                  but we must live not only for today but also for tomorrow.

                  Oleg! Don't you understand that everyone should mind their own business? I have nothing to do with factories. And regarding obtaining information, it was like this: You come to the party archive, with permission from the OK CPSU, and state the TOPIC OF YOUR DISSERTATION. And they give you the materials. If you need documents on another topic - you again get permission for a REASONED REQUEST. In these conditions, it was very difficult to "study" anything! Today it is easier, but the archive in Penza is still on yellowed papers, it is very uncomfortable and smells bad. Working there... is simply disgusting. So I'd rather do effigies...
                  1. +1
                    Yesterday, 12: 37
                    Quote: kalibr
                    A REASONED REQUEST. In these conditions it was very difficult to "study" anything! Today it is easier, but archi

                    Quote: kalibr
                    It's very uncomfortable and smells bad. Working there... is just disgusting. So I'd rather do something

                    Yes, it's hard to please you. Either you were banned, or it smelled bad...
                    Here are the historians Spitsyn, Pyzhikov, I won't list them all, because it's useless, they didn't forbid anything, I don't know about smells, they didn't say anything. And they could compare, and they did compare, not only with 13, and they read Trotsky and the awesome "economist" Chayanov, too, to understand what kind of "economist" he was.
                    1. 0
                      Yesterday, 16: 03
                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      Here are the historians Spitsyn, Pyzhikov, I won't list them all, because it's useless, they didn't forbid anything, I don't know about smells, they didn't say anything. And they could compare, and they did compare, not only with 13, and they read Trotsky and the awesome "economist" Chayanov, too, to understand what kind of "economist" he was.

                      After 91 - yes. Before 91, the rules were the same for everyone, be it Spitsyn or Sinitsyn. Permission was given only for documents and literature from the Special Storage Department in Lenin Library on the topic of the dissertation. Nothing was given that was not on the topic. You couldn't refer to documents, even if you begged for them from the head of the reading room for a box of chocolates, since there was no permission. If the topic included studying Trotsky's works, then... the dissertation was automatically classified as DSP and the defense was closed, as were publications. So don't tell me what you definitely don't know. I defended myself under the party leadership of the Scientific Research Institute during the 9th Five-Year Plan and my access was limited to 1971-1975 and the topic "Education". THAT'S IT!
                      1. +2
                        Yesterday, 18: 58
                        Quote: kalibr

                        After 91 - yes. Before 91, the rules were the same for everyone, whether for Spitsyn or Sinitsyn.

                        You tell this to Spitsyn. Pyzhikov, unfortunately, has already died.
                        Tell Artamonov. I understand that you haven't even heard of them, but you consider yourself a historian.
                      2. -2
                        Yesterday, 19: 40
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        I understand that you haven’t even heard of them, but you consider yourself a historian.

                        Why should I hear about them? I am not interested in their topics, just as they are probably not interested in mine. You can't embrace everything in the world by definition. But if you know that they were allowed to do something that I was not allowed to do. So I explained to you how it worked in the USSR. Someone could have access to anything. But they couldn't publish it. Zhukov, the Marshal of Victory, also didn't cite one very important document in his memoirs, although he couldn't help but know about it. They didn't allow it! But after 1991 I cited it. Both here and in a number of my books.
                2. -10
                  1 October 2024 11: 48
                  Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                  In 1947, after 30 years of Soviet power, it would never have occurred to anyone to say that things were better under tsarism.

                  many people came to this conclusion: 0,8-1,5 million people died from hunger alone at that time, due to cannibalism and carrion eating, which simply did not happen in Russia.

                  And yes, people were able to eat and dress like in 1913 even 40 years later - see the Central Statistical Bureau Report of 1956, about which people wrote very convincingly in the Central Committee and other newspapers.
                  1. +4
                    1 October 2024 13: 29
                    A pure lie. I know this story not from documents but from the words of my relatives. Grandfathers and grandmothers. There was no famine, corpse-eating or other horrors in 1947. There were problems in the summer and in the winter the rationing system was abolished. The fact is so well-known that it is somehow awkward for a more or less educated person to mention it. Only an idiot or a provocateur can compare the "famine of '47" and the abolition of the rationing system in the same year. And, by the way, in Europe they began to abolish rationing only in the early 50s.
                    1. -2
                      Yesterday, 10: 58
                      Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                      A pure lie. This story I know not from documents and from the words of relatives. Grandfathers and grandmothers. There was no hunger, corpse-eating and other horrors in 1947.

                      ignorance, illiteracy and contempt for the victims of the terrible famine of 1946-47 of the purest water.

                      Boasting that you don't know the documents is a disgrace.

                      Ask the grandparents of the villages in the south of Bessarabia, where the Memorials to the victims of the famine of 46-47 stand, who knew the cannibals by sight.

                      February 1947, Report to the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Moldova and the Chairman of the Council of Ministers on the situation in Gagauz villages:

                      “On the way from Chadyr-Lunga to Kongaz there were corpses that were unselected for a long time.

                      In the village council I was informed of the situation. On the night before my arrival, four terrible facts of murder and cannibalism were revealed. Eating corpses has become widespread, with dying old women asking their children and grandchildren to eat their corpses., promising them forgiveness of sins and salvation. There have been cases of theft of corpses taken to the cemetery but not buried.

                      The village council did not have exact data on the state of the population. Twenty-six people were reported to have died in the past day. He offered to immediately conduct a round-trip. Revealed seventy-three bodies. Most of the corpses were hidden in sheds, cellars, attics, in snowdrifts. A significant part of the corpses had their flesh and limbs cut off.



                      It's funny about the abolition of cards: you couldn't buy much with the measly pennies of your salary, and there was also a shortage of goods.
                      .
                      The Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR Kruglov reported to Stalin, Molotov, Beria and others about serious shortcomings in the work of trade organizations and
                      about violations of the rules of trading without cards.
                      Many cities and villages were not prepared for the expansion of trade.
                      In the village, bread was sold according to lists of 200-500 g per person, mainly
                      thus, to the party-Soviet activists. In the cities, trade
                      bakery products, cereals, fats, sugar
                      was cut off 2-3 hours after the stores opened. At the store
                      queues were set up from 5-6 o'clock in the morning. This situation
                      the violence took place in Kurgan, Pskov, Sverdlovsk,
                      Smolensk, Tatar and Buryat-Mongolian regions
                      A S S R, as well as in Ukraine and Moldova

                      Read to avoid being a tom
                      1. +1
                        Yesterday, 12: 51
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Read to avoid being a tom

                        All these fakes have long been exposed.
                      2. -1
                        Yesterday, 13: 05
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        All these fakes have long been exposed.

                        you are a liar,monography:
                        Russian Academy of Sciences
                        INSTITUTE OF RUSSIAN HISTORY
                        V. F. Z I M A
                        FAMINE IN THE USSR
                        1946-1947:
                        P R O I S H O W D E N I
                        A N D I S E S S
                        Moscow
                        1 9 9 6
                        to help, her links

                        R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 132. D. 42. L. 14.
                        8 G A R F
                        . F. 9479.On. 1. D. 458. L. 74-75.
                        9 R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 138. D. 42. L. 15-16.
                        10 R G A E. F. 1562. Op. 20. D. 632. L. 40-40 ob., 113-115 ob., 142-142 ob.
                        11 G A R F . F. 5446. Op. 52. D. 3952. L. 6.
                        12 R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 138. D. 42. L. 43; G A R F . F. 5446. Op. 53. D. 4978. L.
                        24.
                        13 G A R F . F. 9479.On. 1. D. 382. L. 155.
                        14 R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 138. D. 44. L. 61.
                        15 G A R F . F. 5446. About item 52. D. 4026. L. 39.
                        16 Ibid. F. 9479. On. 1. D. 379. L. 308.
                        17 Gam. F. 5446. Op. 52. D. 4025. L. 5-10.
                        18 R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 138. D. 42. L. 15-16.
                        19 Ibid. L. 43.
                        20 True. 1948. 28 May.
                        21 G A R F . F. 5446. Op. 52. D. 4026. L. 18.
                        22 Gam. F. 7523. Op. 65. D. 357. L. 1-3.
                        23 G A R F . F. P-9479. On. 1. D. 458. L. 35.
                        24 Ibid. L. 38.
                        25 R C H I D N I . F. 17. Op. 138. D. 43. L. 37-38.
                        26 Pravda. 1947. July 3.
                        27 G A R F . F. P-9479. On. 1. D. 373. L. 57.
                        28 Gam. D. 382. L. 1.
                        29 Ibid. F. 5446. Op. 53. D. 4978. L. 30-52.
                        30 Gam same. F. R-9479. On. 1. D. 373. L. 57. 79
                        etc..

                        read the DOCUMENTS, there are plenty of them.

                        WHAT, other than unfounded CHATTER, can you provide?
                        NOTHING.
                        And there are still many witnesses of cannibalism and corpse-eating in Bessarabia today.
                      3. +1
                        Yesterday, 13: 12
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        V. F. Z I M A

                        Yes, we know who Winter is, who is V.F.
                        That's why it's a fake. Because Zima is a staunch anti-Soviet, just like you. A fisherman sees another fisherman from afar.
                      4. -2
                        Yesterday, 13: 26
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Yes, we know who Winter is, who is V.F.
                        That's why it's a fake. Because Zima is a staunch anti-Soviet, just like you. A fisherman sees another fisherman from afar.


                        Expose us, Russophobes.
                        And also other scientific works (collections of DOCUMENTS of Moldova, etc.)
                        EVERY statement of theirs is ARCHIVES[b] [/ b].
                        And what do you have - a powerless, evil EMPTINESS
                      5. +1
                        Yesterday, 18: 32
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And what do you have - a powerless, evil EMPTINESS

                        My grandmother told me about the famine of 1946-1947 and as a child I was scared of it.
                        More details on livelib.ru:
                        https://www.livelib.ru/author/718438-zima-veniamin-fedorovich
                        That says it all
                      6. +1
                        Today, 07: 53
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        My grandmother told me about the famine of 1946-1947 and as a child I was scared of it.
                        More details on livelib.ru:
                        https://www.livelib.ru/author/718438-zima-veniamin-fedorovich
                        That says it all

                        Well?
                        What YOU have provided confirms that Winter is right.

                        That's right, well done for getting it.
                      7. -2
                        Today, 08: 18
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's right, well done for getting it.

                        Yes, it got through to me, but not to you.
                        You just can't get the simple truth - to draw conclusions about what is happening in the entire country based on the tales of one grandmother, who is by definition capable of exaggerating something that is happening within a radius of 100 meters.
                      8. +1
                        Today, 08: 32
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        one grandmother

                        My scientific supervisor, Professor Medvedev of the Kuibyshev University, told me about this, and at that time he was not the last person in Moldova!
                      9. 0
                        Today, 09: 48
                        Quote: kalibr
                        My scientific supervisor, Professor Medvedev of the Kuibyshev University, told me about this, and at that time he was not the last person in Moldova!

                        I was told about this by people who directly experienced the famine, buried their relatives and knew the cannibals-fellow villagers by sight
                      10. +1
                        Today, 10: 00
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        who knew the cannibalistic fellow villagers by sight

                        My source will be more official... Here is his biography: He met the war as a deputy company commander. Aleksey Ivanovich took part in battles with the Nazi invaders as part of the 2nd road maintenance regiment of the 20th army of the Western Front near Orsha and Smolensk. In the same regiment of the 29th army, as well as in the 393rd rifle division, he fought near Velikiye Luki and Rzhev. From June 26, 1941 to April 12, 1942, he held the position of chief of staff of the regiment, political instructor of the company. From April 1942 to July 1943, he studied at the Lenin Military-Political Academy. After graduation, he was appointed political instructor of the 97th rifle corps as part of the 22nd army of the 2nd Baltic Front. He was demobilized due to disability (he lost his right arm) after being wounded for the second time in 1944. Alexey Ivanovich Medvedev was awarded the Order of the Red Banner (1944) and the Badge of Honor (1949), as well as 6 medals.
                        After the hospital, he worked as the head of the personnel department of one of the factories in Kuibyshev, studied in absentia at the Higher Party School of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), and graduated in 1946. Until 1952, he worked in the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Moldova. In 1952-1955, he was a postgraduate student at the Academy of Social Sciences (Moscow). Since the beginning of the 50s, he has held high party positions: he works as the head of the department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Moldova.
                        In 1955, A. I. Medvedev defended his candidate's dissertation, and in 1956 he was awarded the title of associate professor.
                        I would like to add that in my dissertation I have convincingly shown that 10000 Moldovan families, dispossessed in 1940, were repressed innocently and were not even considered kulaks according to the documents of that time!
                      11. +1
                        Today, 10: 39
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I would like to add that in my dissertation I have convincingly shown that 10000 Moldovan families, dispossessed in 1940, were repressed innocently and were not even considered kulaks according to the documents of that time!

                        and the most striking example of this is Evfrosinia Antonovna Kersnovskaya from Bessarabia - Russian writer, artist, miner, morgue attendant, sister of a famous historian, author of memoirs. A prisoner of the GULAG, sent from Bessarabia to a settlement and forced labor in Siberia in 1941, and then sentenced to a long term in a correctional labor camp
                        An amazing, stunning, talented woman, unbroken by anyone or anything.
                      12. 0
                        Today, 09: 44
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Yes, it got through to me, but not to you.
                        You just can't get the simple truth - based on one grandmother's tales

                        what nonsense?
                        You have provided THOUSANDS of documents from archives and from the RSFSR, by the way, also - Kursk region and elsewhere, and the grandmothers are living witnesses of cannibalism and victims
                      13. 0
                        Yesterday, 16: 11
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        That's why it's a fake. Because Winter is a staunch anti-Soviet,

                        Even if he is three times anti-Soviet, where will you put the documents from the archive? They are the best witness of the crimes of the past! And the authors only comment on them. Who is better, who is worse... Well, okay, you will not see the archives as your own ears. But here is "Pravda. 1948. May 28." It is quite accessible for you to read in the regional library.
                      14. -1
                        Yesterday, 18: 39
                        Quote: kalibr

                        Even if he is three times anti-Soviet, where will you put the documents from the archive? They are the best

                        I'll throw it in the trash. Because not only were genuine documents removed from the archives (at least by Khrushchev, Gorbachev), but fakes were also thrown into the archives.
                        You position yourself here as a researcher. Here is a topic for your research - "fakes in archives". Doesn't the name Pikhoya mean anything to you?
                        Or do you just denounce?
                      15. 0
                        Yesterday, 18: 53
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Because not only were genuine documents removed from the archives (at least by Khrushchev and Gorbachev), but fakes were also thrown into the archives.

                        You have no idea about the volume of archival documentation. You can throw in one, two, 10 fakes. But they must correlate with dozens and hundreds of other documents, and replacing them is already an impossible task. Have you ever been to any archive? Have you seen how much there is? There will always be something that escapes the attention of forgers and ... there will be a scandal and a lot of things. In addition, documents from before 1949 are very difficult to forge today.
                      16. 0
                        Yesterday, 19: 01
                        Quote: kalibr
                        there will be a lot of things. Besides, documents from before 1949 are very difficult to forge today.

                        Absolutely right. That's why decent people immediately exposed them. And people like Winter... even if they ... in the eyes, it's still God's dew.
                      17. 0
                        Yesterday, 19: 06
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        That's why decent people immediately exposed them.

                        I have no information about the exposure of the documents of the RTCHDNI. You have it, but what is this information and where did you get it from? And I wrote to you about the issue of the PRAVDA newspaper. Was it also exposed as a fake?
                      18. +1
                        Yesterday, 19: 20
                        Quote: kalibr
                        And I wrote to you about the issue of the PRAVDA newspaper. It was also exposed

                        When I read, then we'll talk. It's 19:12 now, so I'll run to the library.
                        Why to the library? I went to Yandex and looked at the titles of all the columns of the newspaper for May 28, 48, all 4 pages, nothing is written about the famine in Moldova or anywhere else. Maybe you can help me find it?
                      19. 0
                        Yesterday, 19: 25
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        I went to Yandex and looked at the names of all the columns, nothing was written about the famine in Moldova or anywhere else. Maybe you can help me find it?

                        I don't know what it should say. This issue was on the list from Winter's book along with other documents. That's why I recommended you look at it. I don't know why this newspaper got there. It's very good that you took the time to look at it. But the headlines don't always reflect the essence of the articles. However, what's the point of arguing. I don't like looking at newspapers on Yandex, I'll look directly in the archive. But there should be something there, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten on this list. And if there's nothing there, here's a specific example of a dishonest attitude to working with sources that you found yourself.
                      20. 0
                        Today, 07: 57
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Even if he is three times anti-Soviet, where will you put the documents from the archive? They are the best

                        I'll throw it in the trash

                        You are funny and absurd in your ignorance and stubbornness: throw away ALL THE DOCUMENTS, and what will you be left with?
                        With newspapers, truth and news, where there is neither truth nor news, only blatant lies and propaganda.
                        Fuuu ...
                      21. 0
                        Today, 08: 27
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        stubbornness: throw away ALL DOCUMENTS, and what will you be left with?

                        Well, why all of them? Only those that Winter "presented".
                        Look closely at the rest to see if they correspond to the logic of further real events.
                      22. 0
                        Today, 09: 07
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Only those that Winter "presented".

                        these are THOUSANDS of documents.
                        Show expert reports on all of them about "falsity". You don't have them?

                        Then you are a liar.

                        And yes, come to the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Famine of the Gagauz People - October 19, where you can tell the Gagauz people to their faces that they are liars and that the memorials at the site of the mass graves in Gaidar, Tomai, Kazaklia, Kiriet-Lunga, Beshgioz, Chishmikioi and Avdarma are wrong.

                        The cities and villages of Gagauzia lost 30-50% of their population, for example in Tomai - 3 victims.

                        Keep in mind that there are still living witnesses of this disaster.
                      23. 0
                        Today, 12: 39
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Then you are a liar.

                        You, as a pronoun, is written with a capital letter.
                        Olgovich, don't be hysterical. I am well acquainted with the history of the Ukrainian "Holodomor", how it was inflated, and how many "authentic" documents were found in the archives, I won't even mention the stories of television "witnesses" of the death of millions. Only my personal conversations with people who survived the famine say the opposite. Yes, there was a famine, but in the villages where I had conversations on this topic, no one died of hunger! And it wasn't just one "grandmother" who told me this, but 6 people in different villages of the Sumy region.
                        Most of all, those who lamented about the "Holodomor" were people from the western regions of the Outskirts, which in 32 were not part of the USSR!
                      24. 0
                        Today, 13: 18
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        You, as a pronoun, is written with a capital letter.

                        to school, yes.
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        I am well acquainted with the history of the Ukrainian "Holodomor", how it was inflated, and how many "authentic" documents there are

                        refute thousands of documents, I suggest again
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Yes, there was famine, but in the villages where I had conversations on this topic, no one died of hunger! And it wasn't just one "grandmother" who told me this, but 6 people in different villages of Sumy Oblast.

                        large sample, funny, you just wrote above that the granny's opinion is nothing.

                        Famine 32-33 is, first of all, Novorossiya.
                        Those who died couldn’t tell - it’s natural, isn’t it?
                      25. 0
                        Today, 15: 53
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        refute thousands of documents, I suggest again

                        Olgovich, I'm starting to worry about you, are you okay? You haven't provided a single document here, and you're asking me to refute thousands. I'm very concerned about your mental health.
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        large sample, funny, you just wrote above that the granny's opinion is nothing.

                        Well, first of all, I didn't ask the old ladies, you must admit, the old men are a bit more truthful. And secondly, 6 villages in the region, that's not a few.
                        In the city, not everyone knows everything, but in the village, everyone knows everything, especially who died and for what reason.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Famine 32-33 is, first of all, Novorossiya.

                        Well, in the Outskirts, famine has engulfed Kyiv, Poltava, Zhitomir, in short, the central regions.
                        Something is wrong with "thousands of documents"? Don't you think?
                        I propose a draw. We will not prove anything to each other.
                        You see only what you like for "exposing the Soviet Power" and point-blank ignore what prevents you from exposing. That is, you have a tendentious approach. This is destructive.
                      26. 0
                        Today, 09: 16
                        Ask the grandparents of the villages in the south of Bessarabia, where the Memorials to the victims of the famine of 46-47 stand, who knew the cannibals by sight

                        This is Olgovich remembering those who, in their cunning, like the Ukrainians, slaughtered their cattle and buried the grain that had rotted, just to avoid giving it to the collective farm. "Victims of Holodomor", or rather the principle - I am smarter than my neighbor, I will slaughter my bull and sell the meat at the market, and let the neighbor bring his bull to the collective farm... and the neighbor turned out to be no "stupider".
                      27. 0
                        Yesterday, 13: 59
                        A person will not resort to any lies and nonsense to justify his delusions. Falsification, lies and complete disregard for common sense, facts and logic. Trust only me, and everything that you were told before is nonsense. But still, it is funny to watch how you stretch an owl onto a globe.
                      28. 0
                        Yesterday, 16: 09
                        Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                        Trust only me,

                        Oleg, you don't know which side the door to the archive opens from, and you've never heard of RCHIDNi, but you're trying to say something. Stupid!
                      29. -2
                        Today, 09: 21
                        Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                        A person will not resort to any kind of lies and nonsense to justify his delusions. Falsification, lies and complete disregard for common sense, facts and logic

                        numerous the authors provide documents and facts, and you, contrary to them and common sense, only empty chatter-
                        Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                        Trust only me, and everything that you were told before is nonsense.

                        don't believe - study the documents themselves, but you don't even think about doing that.

                        Come to the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Famine of the Gagauz People - October 19, where you will be able to tell the Gagauz people to their face that they are liars and that the memorials at the site of the mass graves in Gaidar, Tomai, Kazaklia, Kiriet-Lunga, Beshgioz, Chishmikioi and Avdarma are wrong.

                        The cities and villages of Gagauzia lost 30-50% of their population, for example in Tomai - 3 victims.

                        Keep in mind that there are still living witnesses of this disaster.
                      30. 0
                        Today, 18: 55
                        Факты говорите. Хорошо - 1947-й, "жуткий голод с поеданием трупов" и тут же 14 декабря 1947-го отменяется карточная система распределения продуктов. Чем не факт? А про тех кто пишет об "ужасах социализма" так мы это проходили уже. Неужели Вы думаете что нынешние власти обладая всеми архивами не вытащили бы на свет подборку тех "преступлений и ужасов"? Но что-то не видно. Все эти измышления исходят от литераторов и лиц с сомнительной репутацией чем от серьезных исследователей.
            3. +4
              1 October 2024 09: 26
              Quote: oleg Pesotsky
              And what did you come to on the road of disappointment?

              Haven't you read my articles here? On the history of weapons and weapons and armor of the Middle Ages, on the historiography of the Middle Ages, on what can (and is interesting!) be touched with your hands.
            4. +3
              1 October 2024 09: 57
              And what did you come to on the road of disappointment?
              "Along the road of vague impulses, from the land of enraged ignoramuses, the path of his reincarnations is long, to the secret land of unfulfilled hopes" (c).
              1. +2
                1 October 2024 11: 07
                Quote: kor1vet1974
                "Along the road of vague impulses, from the land of enraged ignoramuses, the path of his reincarnations is long, to the secret land of unfulfilled hopes" (c).

                Good poems, Cornelius, but almost all my hopes came true.
                1. +7
                  1 October 2024 11: 16
                  I meant your reincarnations, judging by your comments that I read, you have been reincarnated more than once.
            5. 0
              1 October 2024 22: 25
              Quote: oleg Pesotsky
              but the history of the CPSU is right there. Right next to it. You can touch it with your hands.

              Are you able to touch the history of the murder of S.M. Kirov? Or at least the murder of Rokhlin and Prigozhin?
              1. +1
                Yesterday, 07: 50
                The question is a bit too abstruse. Firstly, I don't see any connection between the murder of Kirov and Rokhlin with Prigozhin. Different eras, different historical conditions, different leaders. Secondly, even the official materials are full of information that can be used to draw conclusions and adopt a certain point of view. Especially with Sergei Mironych, the declassified materials fully prove that Stalin's conclusion about the aggravation of the class struggle was not in vain, oh, not in vain. And with Prigozhin and Rokhlin, the logic and essence of what happened are clear and simple. Another thing is that there is no /yet/ direct evidence.
                1. -1
                  Yesterday, 16: 16
                  Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                  they prove it completely

                  But for some reason the people sang then: "Cucumbers, tomatoes, Stalin killed Kirov in the corridor." Why would that be? With all the people's love...
                  1. +2
                    Yesterday, 18: 47
                    Listen, you should somehow decide, sometimes you call for archival research, and sometimes you cite a ditty as an argument. What an unhealthy swing.
                    1. -1
                      Yesterday, 19: 30
                      Quote: oleg Pesotsky
                      What an unhealthy swing.

                      One does not interfere with the other. There is such a discipline as "Source Studies". Take a look at what is related to sources at your leisure... Pushkin, for example, in Boris Godunov did not even pay attention to the ditty, but to the silence of the people: "The people are silent". He understood that the opinion of the people matters, albeit in different forms of expression. Let us, his descendants, follow his example.
                      1. 0
                        Today, 07: 53
                        In this case, the people's opinion of the "bloody dictator and executioner" Stalin looks somehow paradoxical. No matter how much mud is thrown at him, no matter how much he is spat upon, his popularity and recognition of his merits only grows. And this is taking into account the fact that powerful organizations with billion-dollar budgets are working against him, and only enthusiasts without any funding are for him. This is not "Boris Godunov", where the people are silent.
                      2. 0
                        Today, 08: 03
                        [quote=oleg Pesotsky]In that case it’s somehow paradoxical.
                        Oleg, there is no paradox. There is... a mass migration of peasants to cities. And peasants are bearers of patriarchal psychology. They need... a "pater", a father. A father of the family, a father of the people. So that they have someone to nod at, someone to bow to, someone to praise. Only in the third generation do the grandchildren of the migrants acquire the psychology of city dwellers and begin to think differently. And three generations is... a century! And how many of them do we have? Just among my acquaintances and relatives there are simply a bunch of former peasants and their children in the first generation and... oh, how funny it is for me to watch them. But in more detail about this phenomenon of our society, a large and detailed article should be written. Apparently, this will have to be done.
        2. 0
          1 October 2024 10: 10
          . And we could become the second Fomenko

          It is difficult to deceive a mathematician. If, for example, you were told that 2+2=5, would you believe it?
          So it is with Fomenko. If you tell him that in the year of the battle at...... there was a drought, locusts ate everything, and two lunar and one solar eclipse were to blame..., he will be able to check. And the fact of two lunar and one solar eclipse in a specific year is easy to calculate. Moreover, the date will turn out to be wrong by three hundred years, and the place is five hundred kilometers to the north.
          I once watched a video of Fomenko's seminar. One of the critics said: "I declare with full responsibility that this cannot be, because this can never be!" And this is an argument?
          There is no history. There are myths that "historians" copy from each other, write dissertations on. But as soon as an engineer, technician, or mathematician objects, they scream "this can't be!"
          1. +7
            1 October 2024 11: 12
            Quote: Podvodnik
            And is that an argument?

            Among artists, 80% can't draw, but say "this is how I see it". 80% of writers are narrow-minded graphomaniacs, 80% of officials take bribes... Why do you think that 80% of historians are not fools and ignoramuses? All my friends who were C students in the group at the institute went where? To school! So there is no point in smearing the whole science with dirt based on the statement of one idiot. Nowadays history uses a lot of technical research methods, from magnetometers to spectral analysis. And about writing dissertations... No need. You haven't written a single one, have you? So don't write from other people's words. Don't copy from idiots... Although the 80 and 20 rule applies here too.
          2. +3
            1 October 2024 11: 22
            2+2=5
            If we take into account that two elements are true, 2 and 2, we get 4, and if one of these elements is false, we get five. From the addition of a true and false judgment, the sum is a true - false judgment.
            1. +4
              1 October 2024 12: 10
              Fuzzy logic on your fingers laughing

              PS: Brevity is the soul of wit (for the topware validator)
          3. +6
            1 October 2024 12: 29
            Fomenko took 8 (eight) stars out of a thousand from the Almagest, with the help of which he pulled an owl onto a globe, throwing out or combining dozens of emperors and hundreds of events. In total, over a hundred astronomical observations are described in the Almagest (some of them could not be seen in the Middle Ages, which kind of hints that Fomenko stole several centuries in vain).
            The remaining 900-odd stars and a hundred astronomical events that could not be stretched onto the globe, Fomenko simply... missed, did not notice
          4. +1
            1 October 2024 14: 20
            And I, as a historian, read Fomenko with Nosovsky, and with full responsibility I declare that he is a hype eater and nothing more, I did not think that anyone would remember him. There are a lot of arguments there, moreover, I will say that we read his pearls out loud at the history department and laughed wildly:
            The trouble is, if the cobbler starts the cakes,
            And the boots stitch the pastry,
            And things won’t work out.
            Yes, and a hundredfold
            What who loves to take someone else’s craft,
            He forever others stubborn and foolish:
            It’s better to ruin everything,
            As for the fact that there is no history, well, go on, there is no physics, no mathematics, it is simply more difficult to get into it, and any idiot can do it in history with his own opinion that is of no use to anyone
            On the subject of sorting out. There is no greater inspiration for a historian than to poke his fingers into another's eye. First, finish history, or at least take a course of lectures on methodology and source studies, and then preach.
            If I have problems with plumbing, with a car, etc., I call professionals. Why the hell are you sticking your nose into something that doesn't concern you? A little knowledge is evil.
          5. 0
            Yesterday, 11: 20
            Quote: Podvodnik
            It is difficult to deceive a mathematician. If, for example, you were told that 2+2=5, would you believe it?
            So is Fomenko.

            Fomenko bases his theory on the correspondence of astronomical observations with political events in certain historical periods. Fomenko is not the first who tries to revise the chronology on the basis of this data. In the 1970s, Soviet popular magazines mentioned an American researcher who, for Ancient Egypt, using the methods that Fomenko later applied, compiled her own chronology that did not coincide with either Fomenko's or the generally accepted one. In addition, materials from some office or accounting reports in Great Britain to translations of Iranian chronicles that quite closely coincide with the official historical chronology are constantly being introduced into scientific circulation.
      2. 0
        1 October 2024 12: 45
        My applause, because there are all sorts of people who think that you were wasting your time. In my youth, I once in the company of reenactors, then everything was just forming, I said that I was interested in fortification. To which the local guru answered me with the words: there is nothing simpler, what I told him I will not pass on.
        1. +4
          1 October 2024 13: 18
          The famous historian Mikhail Gorelik was once invited to some reenactors. He saw an announcement: "Tomorrow is the Scramasax test." He asked what to read, because nothing is known about him, except that he existed. And they told him, and we have reconstructed everything. "Based on what data?" "Based on him himself!" He spat and left...
          1. +1
            1 October 2024 14: 10
            Weak argument. Of course, we don't know exactly how this or that object was used. But there are, for example, drawings, those who wrote them, well, probably knew how to use this or that object. For example, in my history textbook in the Greco-Persian wars the Greeks held the spear from below, although in fact everything is the other way around
            With all due respect to Gorelik. Let's move on, and what is experimental archeology? Well, tell me that it's bullshit and we don't know how the primitives made fire, how and with what they mowed wild wheat and the like.
            https://i.pinimg.com/736x/69/3f/ba/693fbae76c28c109bafee09c23f3913f.jpg
            Here is a link, what is unclear there, tell me as an artist to an artist? And there are not just a sea of ​​such images, but it is known when the Theban shield appeared and why and many other interesting things.
            1. +3
              1 October 2024 18: 14
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              Weak argument.

              This is not an argument. This is a memory. It is just unlikely that the guys from that group could have known more about this than Gorelik. That's all.
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              in my history textbook

              And is it published? By which publishing house? It would be interesting to read.
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              Well tell me this is bullshit

              And why should I say this if it is not so? I never thought so. But any science is science and it should be treated accordingly.
              When I was preparing my 4 books in collaboration with David Nichol at Osprey, the publisher required an authoritative reference for each detail of the drawing - a photo from a museum, a drawing from a monograph, a drawing from the same vase. And then Nichol drew all of this and we agreed on it.
              1. 0
                Yesterday, 07: 03
                About the textbook. I don't remember the author, it's from the Soviet period, no, I found it
                https://avatars.dzeninfra.ru/get-zen_doc/27036/pub_629ef4684e55a9448da0a33e_629ef48c818daf1a0ea78e77/scale_1200
                1. +2
                  Yesterday, 07: 05
                  Quote: Alexander Salenko
                  About the textbook. I don't remember the author, it's from the Soviet period, no, I found it
                  https://avatars.dzeninfra.ru/get-zen_doc/27036/pub_629ef4684e55a9448da0a33e_629ef48c818daf1a0ea78e77/scale_1200

                  You simply wrote "in my history textbook". I thought you meant authorship, that you wrote it, not ownership. And what you sent was Korovkin's textbook. Soviet children studied from it almost since 1956. At one time, I collected them and watched with interest how it changed over time.
            2. +3
              1 October 2024 18: 27
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              in my history textbook

              I looked through the Internet. I found books by Saenko, I found books by Solenko, but the last ones were from 1967, too old for you... a textbook on the Ancient World, alas, I couldn't find it...
              1. -1
                Yesterday, 07: 05
                And Savenko wasn't found? Where did I say that I write textbooks? Dear sir, watch your head there.
                1. +1
                  Yesterday, 07: 11
                  Quote: Alexander Salenko
                  Where did I say that I write textbooks?

                  Here in this: Alexander Salenko
                  (Alexander)
                  +1
                  Yesterday, 14: 10
                  Weak argument. Of course, we don't know exactly how this or that object was used. But there are, for example, drawings, those who wrote them, well, probably knew how to use this or that object. For example, in my history textbook
                  And I and anyone in my place would understand that this is YOUR textbook, as the author, especially when reading your historical article. So express yourself more clearly, sir, and do not write to others about the head or at least immediately indicate the author. By the way, I am the author of a monograph on the English-language historiography of medieval weapons, which was published in Germany in Russian by Lambert. In fact, this is a very good textbook with a lot of references and a huge accompanying scientific apparatus.
                  1. 0
                    Yesterday, 07: 34
                    This is essentially a chat, there are questions,. You asked, I answered. I like the Middle Ages. But somehow I went to the ancient world since childhood, even when I couldn’t read, my father read the myths about Hercules. Filmstrips later.
                    I expressed myself incorrectly, well, excuse me, this is not a scientific discussion and there is no similarity with the Middle Ages, by the way, just as antiquity is different from antiquity. The phalanx at Marathon differs from what preceded it literally 50-70 years earlier, I am not talking about Miltiades' formation, and 50 years later the Boeotian shield appears, which fundamentally changes the structure of the phalanx. The father of my famous namesake, Philip, simply developed this Boeotian idea.

                    And if you think that he should fall, given that you publish your works. The most I can do is applaud. I say this without sarcasm. But I have a diploma thesis, which I wrote with great pleasure, sometimes overnight, so as not to disturb my family, I got 6-7 pages. Now I would not leave a stone unturned on it.
                    1. +1
                      Yesterday, 07: 40
                      Quote: Alexander Salenko
                      And if you think that he should fall, given that you publish your works. The most I can do is applaud. I say this without sarcasm. But I have a diploma thesis, which I wrote with great pleasure, sometimes overnight, so as not to disturb my family, I got 6-7 pages.

                      I don't think that anyone needs to fall somewhere. I just informed you as a colleague in the shop. I understand your pride in your diploma thesis, but... there is also a candidate's dissertation, and a doctoral dissertation, there are many other things. So don't be too proud. I worked at the Higher School for 32 years and supervised so many diploma theses that I can't even count them. I supervised a dozen postgraduate students, two of whom defended their theses. So a university diploma thesis is an essay of a level only slightly higher than a school one, and a work based on translated Russian sources. Well, how many foreign-language authors you have listed in your bibliography, whom you have actually read, and not our translations of the ancients... well, this is available to everyone today. But it is clear that this is better than nothing. Perhaps in the future you will write an interesting book about the Ancient World and its wars, who knows.
                      1. 0
                        Yesterday, 07: 55
                        Yeah, you got me. I know more than you do on this topic. When I was a student, I came to my friends at the chemistry department to study Ukrainian history. Well, the teacher there, I won't even hide his last name. Veligodsky blurted it out, well, I got hooked, it got to Manstein, and he asked if I had read it in the original. To which I replied that you had never held his work in your hands.
                        I just don't want to show off, but my profile didn't become scientific. But, nevertheless... they listen to me. Maybe because they know much less than me and it's not a scientific field of activity.
                        And if I wasn’t sure about this issue, about how they grab a spear, well, I probably wouldn’t have talked about it.
                        https://sun9-63.userapi.com/impg/7ghQHfV83ieGaVWqN0LFW1P47w9a0wVZkL4UGg/oj2kANLZqFQ.jpg?size=604x401&quality=96&sign=1d33e30d0b16205600fd2056e64f358f&type=album
                        Perhaps the artist knew something?
                      2. +2
                        Yesterday, 12: 02
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        they listen to me

                        I am happy for you, but judging by the comments, there are plenty of very specific comments. There are always those who know less than us and those who know more, both in some narrow issue and in a broader sense.
      3. 0
        1 October 2024 18: 42
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: kuks
        I've always loved the work of flat-earthers.

        The funniest thing... In 1968, I first read Kazantsev's article in T-M about all this... And I became an ardent follower! Here we must also add Baalbek, the Nazca plateau, the golden plane of the Moche Indians and the man in the rocket from the Mayan tomb... And so, being an adherent, I wrote a lecture about it, and went to the OK VLKSM, so that I, a student (after getting married in 1974), would not be sent to a collective farm. And... they did not send me! They made me a lecturer of the OK VLKSM and with this lecture - "Mysteries of the Ancient Land" I began to travel and give it. I also added about aliens... How could we do without them. And when they asked me where they were now, I would drawl in a sepulchral voice: "We are still flying back!" But the more I read about all this, the more inconsistencies and outright stupidity and manipulations I saw, and finally quantity turned into quality. I gave up on the "adeptship of the ancient super-civilization" and "aliens", and began to dig into archives, manuscripts, effigies and finally lost faith in what I loved so much at the age of 14-21. I probably read too much... Which I advise everyone else to do. Because from the first, so to speak, time, you can only fall in love with this "teaching" in this way.

        Reading your post I agree with you that reading the archives and it is impossible to come to another conclusion that all the ancient history described in the official history is the absolute truth, but the article talks about things about which there are no written sources or initially there were NO written sources, and after all, at one time one historian said one very interesting thought. If there are no written sources about something, then it did not HAPPEN. hi
        1. +2
          1 October 2024 18: 55
          Quote: nedgen
          If there are no written sources about something, then it does not HAPPEN.

          True. But one source is always, as a rule, confirmed by others. If it is not confirmed, and this also happens, then it is better to leave the object behind... "brackets" of history. Because you can't build a science on exceptions. You have to build on rules. And exceptions should be kept in mind and let them accumulate until better times. New research methods, new cross-arguments of confirmation may appear. This is better than building speculative hypotheses on sand.
          1. 0
            1 October 2024 19: 08
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: nedgen
            If there are no written sources about something, then it does not HAPPEN.

            True. But one source is always, as a rule, confirmed by others. If it is not confirmed, and this also happens, then it is better to leave the object behind... "brackets" of history. Because you can't build a science on exceptions. You have to build on rules. And exceptions should be kept in mind and let them accumulate until better times. New research methods, new cross-arguments of confirmation may appear. This is better than building speculative hypotheses on sand.

            The thing is that, for example, in the Andes there are NO written sources, but there are a lot of ruins that even we cannot repeat (as well as in ancient Egypt). For example, do you really believe that the Khufu pyramid was built in just twenty years? Or will you deny the vertical erosion of the sphinx? Especially since there is NOT a single official source of who made the great sphinx!!! And how do you explain the trace of a tubular drill in the wall of the quartzite sarcophagus in the Khufu pyramid? Or did the ancient Egyptians make a drill out of copper that went deep into the quartzite at a speed of 1,5 cm per revolution? And how could they make granite sarcophagi weighing 70 tons and drive them with muscle power into a dungeon that is only a meter wider than the sarcophagi themselves, and at the same time manage to put a lid on top that weighs 12 tons and fits so tightly that light does not pass through the joints with the sarcophagus? And what tool were they able to use to cut out the inner corner where the bottom meets the walls? Our civilization does NOT have a tool that can make such a clean cut. Especially in granite. Here are a couple of questions for which there are no answers, except that it cannot exist because it cannot exist at all!!!
            1. +1
              1 October 2024 19: 16
              Quote: nedgen
              And what other tool were you able to use to cut out the inner corner where the bottom and walls meet?

              Of course, with a laser, who argues. But here's the problem, it requires electricity, and there are no traces of its production in Egypt, no power poles or underground cables, but many images of half-naked men in skirts.
              "For example, do you really believe that the Khufu pyramid was built in just twenty years?" - for faith, this is in the church. But Herodotus wrote about the construction of this pyramid. And this is the source. There are papyri where it is written about how the stone was mined and floated down the river, there is a lot of everything. You should not believe, but know, constantly keep your finger on the pulse of the latest discoveries in science.
              And I asked you TWICE where you got this or that information... Where are the answers? Instead of them, you have questions... Let's have you answer mine first (I asked first), and then I'll answer yours.
              1. 0
                1 October 2024 20: 05
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: nedgen
                And what other tool were you able to use to cut out the inner corner where the bottom and walls meet?

                Of course, with a laser, who argues. But here's the problem, it requires electricity, and there are no traces of its production in Egypt, no power poles or underground cables, but many images of half-naked men in skirts.
                "For example, do you really believe that the Khufu pyramid was built in just twenty years?" - for faith, this is in the church. But Herodotus wrote about the construction of this pyramid. And this is the source. There are papyri where it is written about how the stone was mined and floated down the river, there is a lot of everything. You should not believe, but know, constantly keep your finger on the pulse of the latest discoveries in science.
                And I asked you TWICE where you got this or that information... Where are the answers? Instead of them, you have questions... Let's have you answer mine first (I asked first), and then I'll answer yours.

                And how can I give you answers about where the sources are from? (Unfortunately, I can't remember all the sources, I'm not a historian. I can't write historical articles like you). And about the figurine resembling a dove, I answered - on Discovery Channel and History Channel. There was also something about golden figurines resembling airplanes (I'm not sure if they were from the Mochica burials, I only remember that the burial was in the Amazon, I think, and if I'm not mistaken, the Mochica were on the other side of the Andes). About lasers, this is of course a joke, especially since when they examined it under an electron microscope, it turned out that the granite grains were cut and not burned. Most modern historians do not accept Herodotus as a source at all. After all, he wrote about Atlantis and about the battle of the Atlanteans with the Athenians (the Atlanteans, of course, lost the battle). laughing ) Of course there are documents about the transportation of stones along the Nile. All the granite was transported along the Nile from the Aswan quarries, and have you by any chance seen photos from these same quarries, but not officially distributed ones, but the so-called apocryphal ones, i.e. made unofficially? The official photos only show an unfinished obelisk, and the unofficial ones show the walls of that very quarry. So it’s as if someone specially trimmed these walls. Almost polished them. And why was this necessary? Unless, of course, this was a side effect of some unknown device? Of course, not everywhere, but such walls exist. And regarding your answer about the sources, you answered me in the same spirit (There are so many of them that I can’t quote a very long list?????) But I asked you where they could read about ancient history, let alone almost a translation of a document? Well, if you are honest, they couldn't have been anywhere because there are NO documents or inscriptions from that period. I gave you an example from the Andes myself. There is NOT A SINGLE WRITTEN SOURCE there. They were all destroyed during the time of the Incas. We all know very little about South America, excluding the time of the Incas. We don't even know the real name of the famous city of Tiahuanaco. We don't even know who actually built Machu Picchu. And don't tell me it was the Incas, because it's DOMISL. Even in the photographs you can see that there were two styles of construction. hi
                1. +1
                  1 October 2024 20: 44
                  I had articles here about the Inca state. It's been a long time, but you can find them. And what you wrote to me is all from my youth in 68-77. Then. there were the 80s, and I forgot all about it. I wrote to you above that you shouldn't pay attention to exceptions. You have to wait and the explanation often finds itself...
              2. 0
                1 October 2024 22: 35
                Sorry for butting in. But if I'm not mistaken, Herodotus (or maybe not him?) wrote about the dog-headed people and about Hyperborea and about "gold-digging ants" in India))))... not a very good source ))))
                1. +1
                  Yesterday, 07: 02
                  Quote: Doc1272
                  so-so source

                  But do you have a head of your own? To separate the wheat from the chaff, and the dog-headed ones from the cost of the onions and garlic that were fed to the builder of the pyramids?
            2. +1
              1 October 2024 20: 04
              How do you explain the trace of a tubular drill in the wall of the quartzite sarcophagus in the Khufu pyramid? Or did the ancient Egyptians make a copper drill that penetrated the quartzite at a rate of 1,5 cm per revolution?

              Read, interesting.
              https://antropogenez.ru/sverlenie/?ysclid=m1qop5a8o8363529605
              1. 0
                1 October 2024 20: 33
                Quote: Ua3qhp
                https://antropogenez.ru/sverlenie/?ysclid=m1qop5a8o8363529605

                Thank you, very interesting. Although it does not explain everything. For example, there is this quote: "Of course, on core #7 there is no trace of any regular spirals, no hints of a "thread" cut by a fixed tooth of a drill moving in the thickness of granite with a 2 mm step per revolution. There is a set of grooves with an extremely irregular "step"; the mechanism of their formation is described in detail above, and the "step" has no relation whatsoever to the forward movement of the drill." I am talking about the fact that I saw with my own eyes something like a spiral with a stroke of 1,5 cm per revolution and this so-called spiral was very shallow - hardly more than a part of a mm deep (more likely a regular scratch). There was nothing like grooves on the core or the inner surface. And in the article there are just grooves with arbitrary sizes and steps. I have known about cutting granite with copper saws and an abrasive for a long time. At least a couple of years. Regarding drilling (thanks for the article), I read it for the first time. But I was interested in how the author of the article imagines turning work on stone, especially with a copper tool. Especially on the inner surface. Regarding the large-necked vessel, I still understand (although I don’t understand how exactly it was made), but in the Cairo Museum there is a stone bottle (the size of a lemonade bottle) with a neck opening no more than 10-12 mm. And when the vessel was illuminated, it turned out that the walls were almost the same thickness. (Sorry for asking the question again, but I am really interested in this. As I already said, I am an engineer and for me it is more interesting how it was made, not why.)
                1. 0
                  Yesterday, 08: 21
                  But I became interested in how the author of the article imagines turning work on stone, especially with copper tools.

                  Watch this movie:
                  https://pikabu.ru/story/delaem_vazu_iz_kamnya_primitivnyimi_instrumentami_6490527
                  Considering the low qualification of the performer, it is quite successful. Professionals will do much better.
            3. +1
              Today, 01: 22
              Quote: nedgen
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: nedgen
              If there are no written sources about something, then it does not HAPPEN.

              True. But one source is always, as a rule, confirmed by others. If it is not confirmed, and this also happens, then it is better to leave the object behind... "brackets" of history. Because you can't build a science on exceptions. You have to build on rules. And exceptions should be kept in mind and let them accumulate until better times. New research methods, new cross-arguments of confirmation may appear. This is better than building speculative hypotheses on sand.

              The thing is that, for example, in the Andes there are NO written sources, but there are a lot of ruins that even we cannot repeat (as well as in ancient Egypt). For example, do you really believe that the Khufu pyramid was built in just twenty years? Or will you deny the vertical erosion of the sphinx? Especially since there is NOT a single official source of who made the great sphinx!!! And how do you explain the trace of a tubular drill in the wall of the quartzite sarcophagus in the Khufu pyramid? Or did the ancient Egyptians make a drill out of copper that went deep into the quartzite at a speed of 1,5 cm per revolution? And how could they make granite sarcophagi weighing 70 tons and drive them with muscle power into a dungeon that is only a meter wider than the sarcophagi themselves, and at the same time manage to put a lid on top that weighs 12 tons and fits so tightly that light does not pass through the joints with the sarcophagus? And what tool were they able to use to cut out the inner corner where the bottom meets the walls? Our civilization does NOT have a tool that can make such a clean cut. Especially in granite. Here are a couple of questions for which there are no answers, except that it cannot exist because it cannot exist at all!!!

              The ancient Egyptians did not have smartphones...
              Let's look at the picture "Oral arithmetic. In public school." N. P. Bogdanov-Belsky 1895
              Boys in bast shoes learned to solve such problems in their heads - try to solve a similar problem today IN THE MIND without a smartphone...
              Modern people have forgotten how to "work" - high technologies are killing simpler technologies.
              Regarding the hole - first we went through it with a "copper drill", then we finished it with another "tool" removing the unevenness - it was this "tool" that left such traces behind, the walls of the finished hole were processed.
              1. 0
                Today, 08: 22
                Quote: cat Rusich
                Modern people have forgotten how to "work" - high technologies are killing simpler technologies.

                Exactly!
          2. 0
            Yesterday, 08: 03
            Why not? A mono-source is very bad, but if there is a phenomenon or an event, which is basically the same thing, what to do? Look at our faith built on a mono-source, despite its internal contradictions.
      4. +1
        1 October 2024 20: 15
        Quote: kalibr
        But the more I read about all this, the more inconsistencies and outright stupidity and manipulations I saw, and finally quantity turned into quality. I gave up on the "adeptism of an ancient super-civilization" and "aliens",

        And "SPID-Info" ceased to exist laughing hi
        1. +1
          1 October 2024 21: 38
          Quote: Adrey
          "AIDS-Info"

          I've never read it... Not even once. I don't like medical publications...
          1. +1
            1 October 2024 21: 44
            Quote: kalibr
            I've never read it... Not even once. I don't like medical publications...

            Then it’s clear why my humor was not appreciated. laughing
            It's good to laugh sometimes laughingIt was as medical as REN-TV is now, military-historical-analytical. hi
      5. 0
        Yesterday, 10: 10
        I highly recommend you watch the feature film by Idiana Jones, the part about the crystal skull. The film itself is a fairy tale, but there is one wise thought, when he and his son rode into the library reading room on a motorcycle and said to the student - if you want to become an archaeologist, get out of the library.
        You haven't seen a damn thing with your own eyes, but you have your own opinion. On the contrary, I've read a lot and believed in some things and not in others, but after going on solo "expeditions" I became convinced that conspiracy theorists not only don't lie, but don't tell the whole story. Go yourself, alone, to the Urals, Karelia, Altai, Kamchatka, and you'll see so much with your own eyes that it will raise so many questions that a lifetime wouldn't be enough to sort out even 10% of what you saw.
      6. -1
        Yesterday, 11: 47
        Quote: kalibr
        Baalbek, Nazca plateau, golden plane of the Mochica Indians

        Well, well, well. All this is flat-earthers' invention, so it doesn't need an explanation. Or maybe they don't have enough brains to explain it? If it can't be explained, then it simply doesn't exist. History books don't write about it!
        1. +1
          Yesterday, 11: 57
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          History textbooks don't write about this!

          The textbook is called a "textbook" because it is based on verified information, not guesses and hypotheses. That's why it is not written.
          1. 0
            Yesterday, 12: 06
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            History textbooks don't write about this!

            The textbook is called a "textbook" because it is based on verified information, not guesses and hypotheses. That's why it is not written.

            Oh yeah? And is Rurik the Norman verified information?
            My post is about not spitting on what, I hope, is still inexplicable from a scientific point of view. And don't pretend that these mysteries don't exist.
            Do you know exactly the technology of building the Egyptian pyramids, do you know exactly who, how and why "drew" in the Nazca desert and much, much more?
            1. +1
              Yesterday, 12: 09
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              There is no need to spit on what, I hope, is still inexplicable from a scientific point of view.

              And somewhere in my commentary text, something that is still unknown is spat upon? In my opinion, I wrote that we need to wait for new findings and data. For example, many hypotheses have been put forward regarding the same drawings in Nazca. Should they all be written down in a textbook? Or should we wait until a more or less suitable explanation is found? In my opinion, the latter is more reasonable.
              1. 0
                Yesterday, 12: 19
                Quote: kalibr
                there are many hypotheses about the Nazca drawings. Should they all be written down in a textbook? Or should we wait until we find a more or less

                That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the general reaction of local readers to the article. Expressed in one word - flat-earthers.
                I am not anyone's follower, I just find unsubstantiated "attacks" on alternative theorists disgusting. Everyone thinks of themselves as experts in history and therefore has the right to mock people who are trying to get to the truth, offering their vision, their point of view, without taking the pose of the ultimate truth.
                1. +1
                  Yesterday, 15: 57
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  trying to get to the bottom of the truth, offering their vision, their point of view, without taking the position of the ultimate truth.

                  Such people should be respected! But... only if they do it based on KNOWLEDGE, and not on fabrications from the finger.
                  1. 0
                    Yesterday, 18: 47
                    Quote: kalibr
                    if they do it based on KNOWLEDGE

                    drawn from official history?
                    So, in your opinion, it is forbidden to go beyond the limits of this knowledge!?
                    1. 0
                      Yesterday, 18: 49
                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      So, in your opinion, it is forbidden to go beyond the limits of this knowledge!?

                      In textbooks, and especially school textbooks, yes. In scientific publications such as articles and monographs - as much as you like.
                      1. -1
                        Yesterday, 19: 08
                        Quote: kalibr
                        scientific publications such as articles and monographs - as many as you like.

                        Why did you then pounce on the article under discussion? Well, you should have refuted it with evidence, instead of joining the chorus of accusers of "flat-earthers".
                        And if, for some reason, you don’t want to or can’t, then you shouldn’t sing along with the accusers.
                      2. 0
                        Yesterday, 19: 18
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Why did you then pounce on the article under discussion? Well, you should have refuted it with evidence, instead of joining the chorus of accusers of "flat-earthers".
                        And if, for some reason, you don’t want to or can’t, then you shouldn’t sing along with the accusers.

                        Because this is not a scientific article with references to authoritative sources, but a typical "yellow press". And to refute such publications with evidence means to have no respect for yourself. In order to refute everything that is dumped there, you need to write a monograph that no one will read. The magazine "Tekhnika Molodezhi" wrote about the Piri Reis maps... That's how long ago I read it. I can also name you one specific issue - No. 1 for 1968 - there A. Kazantsev wrote even more and more interestingly about the "secrets", only he forgot about the Serpent Shafts. And there is also about the burial of Pakal and even a rocket is drawn in which he flies. Should I write in detail how this unscientific bubble burst? I can... But I don't see the point in responding to each of the author's assumptions with an article. You yourself should go to your regional archive... Ask the workers, they will be happy to show you and tell you everything. Especially if you say that you are collecting material for an article. No one will check. This will be much more useful for you personally.
            2. +1
              Yesterday, 12: 11
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              And is Rurik the Norman verified information?

              It is in the texts of the chronicles. The chronicles are a recognized source. And the textbook says - "chronicles". That is, the reliability of the source is not quite absolute.
              1. -2
                Yesterday, 18: 50
                Quote: kalibr
                It is in the texts of the chronicles. The chronicles are a recognized source.

                But there are historians who doubt the reliability of these sources. What to do with them? Get rid of them? Who is not with us is against us?
                And after this you call yourself a researcher?
                1. 0
                  Yesterday, 19: 35
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  But there are historians who doubt the reliability of these sources.

                  I don't know any. But if they exist... 80% of people are, you know... like that... I wrote about it somewhere even here. And historians of all sorts too. Their opinion can be completely ignored.
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  And after this you call yourself a researcher?

                  Recognized as such by specialists, that's why I call it. Here on VO there was a very interesting research work of mine, all on archival documents: "The Poisoned Pen". Look. And how many articles with the analysis of materials from the Pravda newspaper... And materials with the analysis of miniatures from manuscripts, research of effigies and other things. Isn't that enough for you?
                  1. 0
                    Yesterday, 19: 51
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Enough for you?

                    Oh, come on. I had enough of your opuses on the pages of VO.
                    I haven't read them for some time now, forgive me.
                    1. 0
                      Yesterday, 20: 09
                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      I haven't read them for some time now.

                      You can't please all the animals... It's written in the fable "The Elephant-Painter". The main thing is that others read them, and books are sold like hot cakes. So I'll survive your disdain.
                      1. 0
                        Yesterday, 20: 33
                        Quote: kalibr
                        The main thing is that others read them,

                        And good riddance to them. Am I against it?
  3. +10
    1 October 2024 05: 34
    Why is Ren-TV here? It seemed like a decent site...
  4. +5
    1 October 2024 05: 44
    "Maybe it would be better to talk about the reactor, about the beloved lunar tractor..." winked
    1. -3
      1 October 2024 15: 33
      About Musk's lunar, ahem, that is, space-orbital fake, how tourists, having bought a ticket for 50 million, posed in a pavilion, imitating sticking their heads out into space laughing
  5. +10
    1 October 2024 05: 57
    After something like this, you just want to say: "Oh, my God!"
  6. +12
    1 October 2024 06: 13
    These are all the remains of Great Tartary, and the author is the last Tartarian.
    1. +9
      1 October 2024 06: 33
      Quote: parusnik
      These are all the remains of Great Tartary, and the author is the last Tartarian.

      There were novels "The Last of the Mohicans", "The Last of the Udege"... And God loves the trinity!
      1. +4
        1 October 2024 06: 38
        And God loves the trinity!
        God, not a friend, loves a nickel. We are waiting for new revelations.
        1. +4
          1 October 2024 06: 39
          Quote: parusnik
          God, not a friend, loves a nickel.

          +++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
    2. 0
      Yesterday, 10: 14
      Did you know that Tartary is even described in the novels about Robinson Crusoe?
  7. +9
    1 October 2024 06: 38
    "It is no longer possible to simply eliminate or denigrate, or silence one or two irrepressible researchers who are digging where they shouldn't."
    But you can take advantage of the fact that 80% of people know nothing about a topic or have heard something, and write something that will make them gasp, while 20% will just laugh at it. That's what the "information society" is like.
  8. +10
    1 October 2024 06: 50
    Gunung Padang - of course, this is not the beginning of our era or even the 6th-8th century AD, which corresponds to all the data of "official science", we better believe the local archaeologist-"crazy local historian", supported by the nationalist president of Indonesia: the pyramid was definitely created BEFORE TIME!
    This means that the Malaysians were lying – Indonesia is not the center of the world and Civilization, it was from Indonesia that humanity began... and not from the Slavs, as Klyosov writes.

    Guys, don't skip the whole school! Study well and thoughtfully, and then perhaps you will be fine with cause-and-effect and cognitive connections. And if you skipped the whole story, get to your desk immediately!
    And you won't have to rule the world without arousing the suspicions of the orderlies.
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 11: 56
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      Guys, don't skip the whole school!

      Yes, yes, yes, it is precisely in school textbooks that the true history is given not only of Rus - Russia, but of the whole world. wassat
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 20: 58
        How r laughing In school textbooks, the true history is given not only of Rus', but of the whole world.

        In school textbooks it is given in an accessible, consistent and understandable way for schoolchildren.
        For professional historians, things are more complicated.
        That is why I write that it is pointless for those who skipped school to read anything of a higher order: there will be noise and hubbub in the head, which is what we are observing in the vast expanses of our Motherland, ... and the whole world
        Without knowing elementary school mathematics, no one grabs onto higher mathematics?
  9. +5
    1 October 2024 07: 09
    There is much unknown, unexplained and contradictory in the world. I will not talk about the mafia of historians or the pyramids. But no one has really explained the aforementioned Trans-Volga wall. There are many hypotheses. From the Indo-Europeans retreating four thousand years ago to the south, fighting against a terrible enemy, (in the Rigveda they are designated as demons-rakshasas) to Russian buildings of the 16th - 18th centuries against the steppe dwellers (but there are rather alterations of what already existed).
    1. UAT
      +3
      1 October 2024 14: 22
      Respected KVU-NSVD
      There are many hypotheses

      The situation is quite ordinary, but to attract divine powers, aliens, etc. is too much.
      1. +5
        1 October 2024 14: 27
        but to attract divine powers, aliens, etc. is already too much.
        Reply
        Quote

        Well, I didn't actually talk about aliens and gods. I just said that there is a lot in archaeological remains all over the planet that is inexplicable from the point of view of modern ideas.
    2. -1
      Yesterday, 08: 16
      Yes, a lot, but historical science also requires evidence. You can't make statements without relying on a source. And everything else is just chatter. There is a problem of interpreting the source. Or, what is related to the problem, an outdated reading. For example:
      My uncle is of the most honest rules - he made the audience laugh, because he is a scoundrel. But he made them respect him - he played in the box. In the same Pushkin: there is rapture in battle, and nearby: And Lensky, intoxicated, fell from his Kalmyk horse.
      But the funniest thing about the historians' mafia is that there is no more excitement to kick the authority's ass, and you specifically just don't want to get into it, like why the hell do I need this. On the one hand, but you still get involved, why? I don't understand the motivation.
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 10: 16
        Are you aware that the Smithsonian Institution has been formally convicted in court of destroying archaeological finds over many years?
  10. +7
    1 October 2024 07: 16
    The article is written in the journalistic and sensational style of a yellow media outlet. And all comments are aimed specifically at the form of presentation of the materials.
    But doesn't what is described exist? Almost everyone knows what the author described.
    Why go far. Who built the Great Trans-Volga Wall or the Serpentine Ramparts in Ukraine? Or is the Piri Reis map not a document?
    And why in 1977 the Japanese from the Nippon Corporation failed to experimentally confirm the official theory of the construction of the pyramids?
    There are many questions - no reasonable answers.
    Don't shoot the pianist, he's dancing as best he can. love
    1. +10
      1 October 2024 07: 42
      Don't shoot the pianist, he's dancing as best he can.

      Alexander,
      I greet you.
      The problem lies not in the mysteries of history, but in their solutions, and it lies not in the plane of science, but in the plane of human psychology, not even in his level of professional training.
      As a historian by profession, but it so happened that I worked as a manager and leader my whole life, I will say that in the science of history:
      1. There are specialists of different levels, as everywhere;
      2. Most people don't know, and many don't want to know, that a historian is not Pikul, Dumas, or someone who reprints a little-known article in Zen or even here on VO. A historian is someone who, first of all, knows the language of the monument he studies. If you don't know ancient Greek and the translation of Egyptian hieroglyphs, don't even mention the secrets of the Pyramids, go dig some sand.
      3. A historian is not someone who thinks something about history, I woke up and then thought, but... someone who reads a monument professionally, be it a manuscript, an archaeological excavation or broken clay pots... and again - if you don’t know how to “read” an excavation, don’t even bother talking about archaeology.
      4. And finally, both the historian and the non-historian should know that a fairly large part of the historical process is hidden from us, What we know today in science, N.M. Karamzin could not even guess. The professional science of history develops simultaneously with all other sciences and, when necessary, adopts advanced experience: from dendrochronology, linguistic, semantic analysis to mathematical methods, such as correlation analysis and DNA analysis.
      5. When I write about the "hidden historical process", I am not talking about what people with a special mentality claim about the Vatican Archives. We simply do not know much, because there are no scientific historical sources on this subject, for example, like the calling of the Varangians. But this does not mean that we can assume anything about Arkaim!
      hi
      1. +2
        1 October 2024 09: 31
        Good afternoon, Edward!
        The passage surprised you:
        "and in their solutions, and lies not in the plane of science, but in the plane of human psychology, not even his level of professional training." (c)
        I'll leave it without comment.
        You described everything correctly. History, as a science, does not stand still and develops together with other sciences, but Karamzin and Tatishchev still remain people who created the "skeleton" of Russian history.
        Why do such articles appear?
        With the Internet era came new opportunities. People became interested in history, among other things.
        The article mentions the Trans-Volga Wall, which is about 2,5 thousand kilometers long. Any civil engineer, if given the dimensions of this structure, will calculate how much soil is needed for its construction, how many man-hours it will take with a wheelbarrow and shovel or modern mechanisms.
        People are interested.
        There is such a resource as VO and not only it, so people let off steam of discontent towards historians. hi
        1. +2
          1 October 2024 14: 00
          Why do such articles appear?

          Try looking at Mortensen PB, Pedersen CB, Westergaard T, et al. Effects of family history and place and season of birth on the risk of schizophrenia // NEJM. - 1999. -V. 340. - pp. 603-608.
          Or a two-volume edition edited by Academician of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences A.S. Tiganov.
          1. +2
            Yesterday, 16: 28
            Quote from Frettaskyrandi
            Why do such articles appear?

            Try looking at Mortensen PB, Pedersen CB, Westergaard T, et al. Effects of family history and place and season of birth on the risk of schizophrenia // NEJM. - 1999. -V. 340. - pp. 603-608.
            Or a two-volume edition edited by Academician of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences A.S. Tiganov.

            READ. Thank you! Interesting. In short: According to a large epidemiological study conducted by Danish researchers, a family history of schizophrenia increases the risk of developing the disease. Also important risk factors are place and season of birth. People born in the winter months, particularly February or March, or in urban areas, have a higher probability of developing schizophrenia than people born at other times of the year or in rural areas. People born in Copenhagen were 2,4 times more likely to develop schizophrenia than those born in rural areas.
            As for us, iodine-deficient areas (1), consequences of nuclear tests + Chernobyl (2), DDT and pesticide pollution (3), pollution from metallurgical and chemical production right in the cities (4), drunkenness of parents (5), improper upbringing (6). These are the 6 factors that, let's say, weaken the mental activity of our people (and people of the entire planet as a whole), contribute to delusional ideas and lack of "brakes". In 80% of the population, all these factors are expressed sharply, in 20% - to a lesser extent or some are completely absent. For example, the Japanese have never had an iodine deficiency.
      2. 0
        Yesterday, 08: 22
        These are golden words, I take my hat off to you.
      3. 0
        Yesterday, 10: 26
        Eduard, I wanted to ask you as a historian - why did the Vikings call Greenland the Green Country if it is covered in ice for almost a kilometer?
        Well, the second question is - why does the "cultural" layer have a selective effect? ​​Somewhere it is, and somewhere it is not. And why do old buildings all over the world have their first floors covered by the cultural layer? What prevented it from being dug up?
        1. +1
          Yesterday, 16: 30
          Quote: LuckyBlog
          and why did the vikings call greenland the green country

          Because then there was a time of climatic optimum, when the climate was warm, then in the 14th century the Little Ice Age began and it was covered with ice. Type "Little Ice Age" on the Internet. There is more about it there.
          1. 0
            Yesterday, 17: 28
            I know about the Little Ice Age, but for some reason Iceland at that time was already Iceland and not Greenland, and even after the start of the Ice Age Iceland should have been covered with ice up to a kilometer, but for some reason its climate did not change.
            1. +1
              Yesterday, 17: 56
              Quote: LuckyBlog
              however, for some reason her climate did not change.

              The soil there is warm due to the abundance of volcanoes and geysers. This gave the climate greater stability and less dependence on external factors.
        2. +1
          Yesterday, 16: 32
          Quote: LuckyBlog
          and why does the "cultural" layer have a selective effect? ​​It is present in some places and not in others.

          Because in some places people lived, and in others they didn’t.
          Quote: LuckyBlog
          Why do old buildings all over the world have their first floors covered by cultural layers? What prevented them from being dug up?

          Laziness is my mother. I wrote about this in an article in relation to old houses in Penza and there were photos there...
          1. 0
            Yesterday, 17: 29
            so why does what works in Penza not work in St. Petersburg, and in Tobolsk and Tomsk it works completely differently?
            1. +2
              Yesterday, 17: 59
              Quote: LuckyBlog
              So why does what works in Penza not work in St. Petersburg, and in Tobolsk and Tomsk it works completely differently?

              I don't know. Maybe the secret descendants of the Atlanteans are interfering, or the aliens are hiding something there...
              1. 0
                Yesterday, 20: 52
                no, the reason is that somewhere dust settled in much larger quantities, + mud. But why it happened that way is another question.
            2. +1
              Yesterday, 20: 53
              so why does what works in Penza not work in St. Petersburg, and in Tobolsk and Tomsk it works completely differently?

              Good evening,
              Somewhere they dig up, somewhere they don't dig up. So in St. Petersburg the Menshikov Palace is dug up to see the cultural layer, and the Church of John the Baptist from the 8th century is also dug up, and somewhere there is no reason, and it's all about finances.
              It all depends on where it is and where it is not. The quality of the soil, whether it ensures or does not ensure the safety of what is found, etc.

              As for Greenland, we only know presumably that it was named that way. We have no exact data on what was meant. But this version has spread in popular literature.
              It is also not clear why Iceland was named that way. I was in Iceland in winter, compared to our winter - late autumn, but windy, ice only in the mountains.
              hi
    2. +8
      1 October 2024 08: 06
      Quote: ee2100
      There are no reasonable answers.

      Yes! What the Japanese did not know in '77 we know today, a year or two ago papyri were found with a detailed description of the construction. The news was published here too.
    3. +3
      1 October 2024 08: 09
      Quote: ee2100
      But doesn't what is described exist? Almost everyone knows what the author described

      It exists. And even much more than the Author described, but the main thing is that no one has been able to explain it. Neither historical nor mathematical methods helped (Fomenko does not count)...
    4. +7
      1 October 2024 08: 49
      Don't shoot the pianist, he's dancing as best he can.
      Yes, the author of this article actually dances on the piano keys, with his feet, trying to perform classical pieces.
    5. 0
      Yesterday, 08: 20
      Well, yes, historians only trade in scoreboards, go once during the excavation season, the nonsense will blow away in no time. My first voyage at the age of 14 And I have a question, why the hell does everyone not just stick their nose into historical science, which is still understandable, but starts telling something there without having basic skills? Let me tell you how to run a household - it is about the same, no matter how strange it may seem. I always said that a little knowledge is evil.
  11. +7
    1 October 2024 07: 30
    Someone decided to make a compilation of RenTV programs)
  12. +6
    1 October 2024 07: 34
    If mountains are called pyramids, then yes, there are many of them.
    the laser beam is working. The distance to the surface is measured, trees in this case are not an obstacle

    laser beam does not penetrate trees
    Others went even further. Thus, current Ukrainian "historians" broadcast that Kievan Rus is supposedly the history of Ukrainians-Russians, Ukraine-Rus. And Muscovy allegedly arose much later.

    In criticizing “others,” the author went much further than them.
  13. +10
    1 October 2024 07: 41
    The glory of the Ukrainians who dug out the Black Sea does not allow the Author to sleep peacefully.

    Perhaps, for the good of humanity, not everyone should be taught to read and write.
  14. +4
    1 October 2024 07: 42
    Dear author, I am certainly not a scientist, but like many others, I was interested in this topic. So, dating methods are very approximate. Given the numerous errors, no laboratory will date unless you say what you brought and what period the item belongs to. As for Shokh, he himself admitted that wet sand can cause such erosion, and that is a different matter. Why do they cover the sphinx? It is falling apart. Because it is made of soft limestone. How did people make such things? And how did one American make either a city or a castle out of stone? With his hands. There, multi-ton doors open with a push of the hand. And how did they make a marble veil? Again, with his hands. The Anthropogenesis 24/7 channel filmed the creation of a bowl from granite or diorite using tools available to the ancients. The girl sculptor and her assistant coped. Then they compared it with the ancient bowl - the new one is made more accurately. True, it took them several years - they are not professionals! And if a person has nothing but a stone - you will involuntarily become a processing specialist. So, I would like to believe in a miracle, but ...
    1. +6
      1 October 2024 07: 55
      The girl sculptor and her assistant did it. Then they compared it with the ancient bowl - the new one was made more accurately.

      I support you, historical progress is especially noticeable in technology, as a historian I will note that if the same masterpiece of decoration in ancient times is found as if it was made by aliens, then today, with the help of 3-D models, 100500 of them are made. There is no need to go into detail: furniture a hundred years ago, elite, is often inferior to modern expensive mass-produced ones.
      and yes, in this case...miracles don't happen
      hi
    2. +3
      1 October 2024 08: 30
      About cities in the jungle. Perhaps there are. Only excavations are not carried out. For example, Mayan cities continue to be excavated, the following was established: the area of ​​the cities is much larger, they are simply overgrown with jungle, well, there are cities in the jungle in the Amazon, so what? There is no money for excavations.. No one has, so to dig, not to dig up, and the author of the "sensation" is riveting..
    3. 0
      Yesterday, 08: 45
      That's exactly it, you are not a scientist, and by the way, neither am I, but I know what relative and absolute chronology is. Your example is calculated for hype, but we can do that too, I don't see much harm because there is a term: experimental archeology.
      I can't answer every question. But maybe you should study the methodology of historical research for a start? I took part in excavations for 6 years, later we found a settlement, asked to participate in the exploration. Maybe you should go and dig?
      As for dating, are there textbooks, too lazy to read? There is absolute chronology and there is relative, do you know what the difference is? And the difference is that people like you won't get into nuclear physics or higher mathematics. And I don't suggest you take my word for it, there are textbooks on source studies at your service, there are many of them, choose for every taste, the essence will be the same - any historical statement is based on a source. Everything else is a hypothesis.
      So Napoleon's artillerymen fired cannonballs at the Sphinx, testing its strength, there are marks there, don't you know about the Battle of the Pyramids?
      And now for a little detail, in our Simferopol region they once found a tomb of the Kemi-Oba culture. The slabs are either from modern Belogorsk, which is 45 km away, or from Inkerman, which is 80, the Bronze Age. How they dragged them, without a wheel, we do not know. Similarly, near the village of Orlinoye there are menhirs, like statues. The stone is not local, moreover, each menhir was dragged from different places, it weighs a lot of gumai.
      You can ask as many questions as you like about how they got there, there is another stone in the vicinity. But you can come and see.
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 10: 24
        Limestone is limestone. It is soft. It does not matter who shot at it or what it was fired from. And if scientists say that it began to peel off faster due to a change in the composition of the atmosphere, there is no reason not to believe them. As for the chronology, could you tell me why the chronology of Egypt based on the records found in the part of the Old and New Kingdoms was accepted, but the era when the gods ruled was not accepted? There is only one source. Even, if I am not mistaken, several identical ones. How did they carry heavy objects? Skids? Logs? They carried them somehow. I sincerely envy you that you took part in the excavations. I did not have the chance. And I am not that interested in this. Regarding the article, I expressed my opinion. Do people like me have the right to their opinion? Those who do not believe in the existence in the past (thousands, millions of years) of some incredible civilizations and technologies. With respect.
        1. -1
          Yesterday, 10: 36
          I still don't understand, did you ask questions or say goodbye? I'll tell you in advance that you're not at the age to prove your case against all odds. I don't have any contempt for those who haven't received a history education, this is to dot the i's and cross the t's right away.
          As for soft limestone, it varies greatly, from bryozoan in Crimea to Upper Jurassic. Try the latter.
          As for faith, I don't have faith but knowledge, with faith - I'm sorry. to the church. And excavations, waving a pick and a shovel, if they were digging up a vegetable garden, it's about the same. I'll tell you a joke. They were opening a tomb, I was a kid of 15, they were digging a monastery near Sudak. The tomb was covered, but one stone had moved to the side, I didn't understand the robbery then, in short, we found everything except the skeleton, we crushed the black widow, dug up tin cans and bottles. Plastic bags, which pleased me, the right pedal of one gravedigger, killed the shoes, the beast. Where they dragged the skeleton I don't know and why the hell they needed it - also.
          The respect is mutual, my hat is off to you.
          1. +1
            Yesterday, 18: 00
            I must have lost the thread of the conversation. What are you trying to tell me? That in ancient times there was a highly developed civilization similar to ours? Or that there was paleocontact? That Zahi Hawass is hiding information that the Sphinx is 10-12 thousand years old? That chronology is absolute? Sorry. I don't have your education, but I know that the Sphinx is being restored because of the destruction that had begun, the pyramids were built by people (using technologies available 2.5 thousand years BC), the wonderful stone vessels were made by ordinary people, with ordinary hands. The huge blocks were moved by ordinary people, not aliens, etc. And I really don't need to prove anything.
            1. +1
              Today, 08: 06
              No, I don’t want to convey that I don’t accept alternative thinking, but I found out your position, for which I thank you.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. +7
    1 October 2024 07: 45
    Our master has hypochondria again... (Formula of Love)
  17. +10
    1 October 2024 07: 45
    "When there is a wound in the heart,
    And it's cold in my chest
    To the cellars of the Vatican
    Come after midnight,
    There is no food and beer,
    Scurrying through the nights,
    The monks are pecking at Clio,
    With wax candles
    1. +5
      1 October 2024 08: 22
      To the cellars of the Vatican
      Come after midnight, good good good
  18. +6
    1 October 2024 07: 52
    Erich von Däniken drew attention to this topic, breathed in, so to speak, a second wind. His books were actively published here. REN-TV took plots for its programs from this writer, it seems.
  19. +7
    1 October 2024 07: 53
    I can recommend a book by Michael Cremo, it's called Forbidden Archeology, where he touches on interesting and mysterious topics of history in great detail. I can't say that I am an admirer of such mysteries, but these mysteries do exist and there are still no explanations for them. Please do not confuse him with science fiction writers Eric Däniken and Zachary Sitchin - this is a completely different level. He came to Russia to give lectures and, unfortunately, it turned out that I did not get to them, which I still regret...
    1. +2
      1 October 2024 08: 48
      Thanks for the recommendation, I've already downloaded it and will read it. Riddles, without a doubt, exist. Some can be solved, some may never be. Here's another problem - we are not scientists, we do not always have access to primary sources. As a result, they tell fairy tales, and we believe them. It happens. Accurate scientific literature is boring, and often inaccessible. Or in an imported language. And I, for example, am not burdened with their knowledge. So sensations are often not sensations at all. But they exist. You can't argue with that.
      1. +6
        1 October 2024 09: 29
        Quote: Lykases1
        Accurate scientific literature is boring, and often inaccessible. Or in an imported language. And I, for example, am not burdened with their knowledge. So sensations are often not sensations at all. But they exist.

        That's exactly how it is!
        1. +6
          1 October 2024 11: 18
          Quote: kalibr
          So sensations are often not sensations at all.

          In one of the cathedrals, a figure of an astronaut was discovered in the stucco! Probably thousands of journalists got rich on this sensation, and historians threw up their hands. And then it turned out that it was a joke by restoration workers. The master himself wrote about it, indicating that they had made another "joke" - they gave a cup of ice cream to the dragon's paw.
      2. 0
        Yesterday, 08: 56
        Dear Sir, there is such a thing as a weak source base. The second point is scientific discoveries. For example, when my father studied at the history department, it was believed that humans were 1,6 million years old. Incidentally, a visiting specialist, the respected Stolyar, was giving a lecture. Another lecture, and he says: 2,6. ancestors were found in Koobi-Fora.
        Then I followed in my father's footsteps and took a special course, he was a bastard of course, but he knew his stuff. So he says: there is a suspicion that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon coexisted, i.e. we are not the ancestors of Neanderthals. Although if you look at Valuev's face, there are a lot of signs. He put forward the idea that our ancestors genocided these Neanderthals. Not that they killed them, a foreign Cro-Magnon is the same enemy, what have you forgotten on our territory. We remember courtyard after courtyard and district after district - everything is from there. We simply have our own Neanderthals, who lived three thousand years after their official disappearance.
    2. -1
      Yesterday, 10: 42
      Well, this is a normal state of science. That we don't know something, or don't rethink it, it's just that various scribblers don't get involved in exact or natural sciences, but how can you not get involved in history? A riddle in itself is not a riddle, there is something we don't know how to interpret. And are these problems of science or those who fall for speculators?
      I took part in excavations in exploration, studied this science at the university, and the teachers were scientists of the state and one, world level. Probably men all their lives were engaged in nonsense and confused others. Is that what you want to say?
  20. +6
    1 October 2024 08: 22
    According to the author's logic, then it turns out that Thunder is the stone on which
    a monument to Peter, the Alexander Column, a monument to Nicholas I in St. Petersburg are "new constructions".. How can this be done without computer calculations and modern technologies? laughing
    1. +2
      1 October 2024 19: 15
      Of course it's a new creation, less than 300 years old. And you see, even Pythagoras wasn't born yet... laughing
    2. +1
      Yesterday, 08: 58
      Golden words. I asked the guide in Isaac about the columns, that there are alternatives. So she answered go to the Finns, there are a lot of them, but only defective ones
  21. +5
    1 October 2024 08: 41
    Ideally, today in Russia we need to recreate the Russian “Heritage of Ancestors”

    Ahnenerbe or something?
    1. +7
      1 October 2024 09: 29
      Ahnenerbe or something?
      Something like that, we need to prove to the whole world that it was our ancestors who dug Lake Baikal in Siberia... And not the Ukrainians... We lost the championship in digging the Black Sea... laughing
  22. -7
    1 October 2024 08: 52
    The fact that history is a pseudoscience is a fact, but the author also refers to some facts that are not confirmed by anything. There is no way to really determine the age of something, errors can be millions of years old.
    1. +5
      1 October 2024 09: 26
      history is pseudoscience fact
      It seems that it is not a fact that you were born and it is not a fact that you are alive...
    2. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 08
      The minuses are not mine, but why is history a pseudoscience? Maybe because such slobs as you do not know it? Or is it difficult to study? Well, my friend, in historical science there are events, there are phenomena, the last one, for example, the storm that destroyed the Persian crossing of the Hellespont. Herodotus, who talks about this, wrote not for us but for eyewitnesses, you can not believe him, but Thucydides kicked him more than once for unreliability.
      There are a lot of dating methods if you don't know a damn thing about them, that's one question. My sincere misunderstanding is different, why are you screaming about your illiteracy at the top of your lungs? I'll explain for dummies. I go into the museum of Tauric Chersonesos, there are some moments presented there and I see a warrior from the 4th century on one of them, then a signature, 4th century, pardon, BC. How is it that I see it, but someone else doesn't, that's not a problem. But there are demagogues like you, who scream like in Marshak's book "From Two to Five" - ​​there are no sharks.
      First, finish your history studies and then start broadcasting.
    3. -2
      Yesterday, 10: 43
      I don't give a minus, although everything that came in was deserved. First, study to be a historian, so that you can chatter later
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 16: 23
        He seems to be a humanitarian, but he is so aggressive :))
        1. -1
          Yesterday, 16: 25
          In what? I would look at you if I myself came into your diocese and said that you don't understand anything. Yes, who told you that humanists are humanists?
          1. 0
            Yesterday, 16: 27
            Don't get all worked up, it was a joke, I graduated from the history department myself at one time, but unfortunately I didn't go any further down this path.
            1. 0
              Yesterday, 16: 35
              I won't, ha, I didn't go into science either.
  23. +6
    1 October 2024 10: 38
    Phi.
    An attempt to get involved in science? Or to write more articles?
    Collection ...... from the Internet, and even just the top. Only the lazy ones on the Internet haven't discussed the sphinx and the city in the jungle since the 90s...
  24. +6
    1 October 2024 10: 49
    The late Andrey Sklyarov had something similar. Also followers of global conspiracies and alternative history. They climbed the pyramids with calipers, looking for polygonal masonry. But it turned out that these were blocks left over from the restoration))
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 16: 39
      Well, wouldn't it be easier to look for construction waste as evidence, or was it properly packed and taken away? We even know the diet of the pyramid builders, they were even given beer and there are camps of their builders near the pyramids, and in addition to the complex in Giza there are other pyramids and not always typical, sometimes erroneously calculated.
  25. +5
    1 October 2024 12: 12
    Don't be afraid, the crystal vault of heaven is well connected to the earth's firmament, such a structure reliably protects the earth's axis.
  26. +2
    1 October 2024 12: 24
    Although I am not a great expert, I personally believe that advanced civilizations existed even before official science declared it. But regarding the presence of water and the dating of the ancient sphinx, this theory was rejected by experts, as well as the famous Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass. Moving on to mysteries, we can talk about Sardinia, in particular about the Santa Cristina well, both in its shape and in the possibility of building such a well thousands of years ago.
    1. 0
      1 October 2024 12: 32
      Although in Sardinia, in addition to the classic structures called Nuraghe, we should talk about the presence of giants, it seems that when the fossils were discovered, everything went silent. Even today, experts are divided between those who confirm it and those who claim that it is all a lie. Then, with the help of studies carried out with the help of satellites and drones with thermal cameras, they confirm that the pyramids found in Central America are much larger than those found to date.
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 09: 16
        I didn’t understand the question, if there are pyramids, and they are in Latin America, then who will say that they don’t exist?
        1. +1
          Yesterday, 12: 31
          I understand that you didn't understand anything. Who said that there are no pyramids in Central America? I just wrote that thanks to new technologies, drones, satellites, etc., researchers and scientists say that the total number of pyramids in Central America is much higher than we know. Is it clear now?
          1. -2
            Yesterday, 15: 02
            I've heard of this, what next? And then take a shovel and dig from here until lunch and don't chatter. You need to work and not build nonsense.
      2. 0
        Yesterday, 16: 34
        Well, what does a conspiracy of scientists have to do with it, if this is true, I heard about these pyramids from one TV show. It's just that in science the pillars are not the commandments but the methodology, and everything else is revised, it's just that no one reports it to you personally. For example, science believed that Neanderthals were the ancestors of Cro-Magnons, then they doubted it, the lecturer told me that there was a suspicion that they coexisted with Cro-Magnons, which was proven in 2005. This was yesterday by scientific standards, have you heard?
        So science knows about Gigantopithecus but a pithecus is a monkey and not a man, skulls with a bone mohawk are known, the muscles that moved the lower jaw were attached to this bone. So your giants would have to leave the giant shit, and where is it?
      3. -1
        Yesterday, 16: 43
        So what do you see as the problem, well if so, you can defend dissertations on this. A real topic, not like some, I just know several dissertations, dedicated to such nonsense.
    2. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 14
      Is there an unofficial science? Maybe you can tell us about its methodology? I won't blab about the time of the sphinxes. But I wrote my diploma on Herodotus, he saw both the sphinx and the pyramids, this is the 5th century BC. I can throw in more than one uncomfortable question, but first: do your own thing, if you don't know, ask the experts, in our country Egyptology is in perfect order.
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 12: 46
        When you hear theories or theses about historical subjects other than those found in books or other information fields, such as giants, the origin of the Sphinx, the pyramids, civilizations that developed and then mysteriously disappeared. Speculation about Atlantis and so on. What we call conventional science steps in to disprove these hypotheses. Is it clear now?
        1. +1
          Yesterday, 12: 49
          I also gave the example of the sphinx because in this article we are also talking about water signs. And I WROTE that even the Egyptian archaeologist expert Zahi Hawass DENIED this. The rest of your personal statements about me I will leave aside; I will not stoop to your level of rudeness.
        2. -1
          Yesterday, 15: 05
          Now about what science is, in addition to written monuments, any historical and cultural community leaves behind material sources, but where there is enough writing, archeology is not resorted to because it is unnecessary.
        3. 0
          Yesterday, 16: 44
          It is not clear. How can one refute the material base? You can ignore it, but how can you refute it?
    3. -1
      Yesterday, 10: 49
      Developed in relation to what? For example, the topic of my diploma is "Greco-Persian Wars" My sympathizers, the Greeks, were much more primitive than the Persians. Subsequently, my famous namesake did not just sail into Persian luxury, so he was not the first.
      You can talk about anything, but in a mercantile manner, without the miserable belief in some kind of super-knowledge.
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 12: 56
        Here you are, writing me nonsense, thinking that I am one of the propagandists of various theories. When I speak clearly, I give clear examples, for example about giants, between those who say they exist and those who do not! If you have something, send an email to scientists who do not see such things in Sardinia as you do, and kindly explain your doubts.
        1. -1
          Yesterday, 15: 00
          Why do I need Sardinia, in our small Crimea they found slightly fewer Neanderthals than in the rest of Europe, if we are talking about Gigantopithecus, then these are monkeys, pithec is translated into Russian, for example, dryopithecus. And pithecanthropus - already fundamentally not knowing Greek, the word man is visible, as is the word monkey. And what I am writing to you, well, excuse me. Everyone strives to stick their nose into historical science, not chemistry with mathematics, not into medicine, and that is relatively, with chemistry in addition.. Only few people understand that historical science is just as strict as the above.
  27. -6
    1 October 2024 12: 34
    Good article. And it's not about the facts (or "facts") presented in it. Deconstruction of "historical science" is a good thing
    1. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 18
      Minuses are deserved, create your own if you want to be in the role of a clown. Fomenko and Nosovsky at least got some money from this, by the way, from people like you.
      1. -1
        Yesterday, 12: 05
        I am absolutely not interested in +-, ratings of all kinds, and other competitions within the framework of special olympiads. I do not participate in this, and such activities as copy-pasting Wikipedia or retelling a book with the "correct" point of view at the moment for pluses (even if something else drips for this in addition to pluses) cause me disgust and contempt.
        The role of clowns is played by official historians of the lower level. Actually, the same goes for those at the top, but they have "beautiful" aprons and they are not simpletons.
        Fomenko and Nosovsky are part of the system. Their task is to confuse those who saw inconsistencies in the official version. Fomenko, by the way, is also a "scientist" and was engaged in "science"
        1. 0
          Yesterday, 14: 53
          Your problem is that there is no official version in nature, science is not the general line of the party. Fomenko is a mathematician and apparently not the most intelligent, since he was carried away to another steppe, or a hype eater, by the way, one does not interfere with the other. If something does not fit together in your head, this does not mean that science does not fit together. This is the first, second, if science cannot answer some question, which happens all the time by the way. It does not stop being science because of this. Third, I read Fomenko and Nosovsky, I was not lazy. And I do not understand what kind of moron you have to be in general to fall for this, unfortunately they are found.
          From the same series and Rezunism, how many people were turned and Bushkovshchina, although he directly writes that this is not a scientific work and I talked with one alternative, he is not with us, Nick Andre, he was harmless though. But the main shitting of alternative in addition to commercial activity has a political background.
          1. -1
            Yesterday, 16: 04
            For myself, I have long ago drawn up a picture of the historical process, so everything fits together perfectly for me. But how can you not see the existence of an official version in science? Science is financed by the state, it acts as a customer. And "scientific concepts" are only what the customer wants to see and what he pays money for. If we are talking about particulars that cannot in principle change society's picture of the past, like what knot and in what sequence the straps on the caligae were tied, etc., then the greatest possible pluralism is encouraged and supported. But when it comes to important things that influence worldview and outlook, all that science offers is a set of politically conditioned theses, illustrated by references to primary sources taken out of context. Yes, there are different versions, but they are all within the framework of a strictly defined axiomatics. So it turns out that within the framework of this axiomatics (approximately coinciding with the theses of a school history course), it is impossible in principle to get an answer to the question. And this is especially true for questions of existential importance. Normanists-anti-Normanists, for example. Scientific discussions within the framework of this false dilemma can be carried on for centuries, and this is science, yes. But what does this have to do with the study of the past? Yes, as a social institution, science does not cease to be science, but it is also obvious that it plays a different role in society. A role that has a very distant relation to the one declared.
            I completely agree with you that all the famous "alternatives", Fomenko or Rezun, are politics. But why are they famous? Because they, like official science, are popularized by the state (during perestroika, Rezun was advertised in central newspapers)
            1. 0
              Yesterday, 16: 24
              Rezuny and Fomenki are known thanks to PR. For example, not far from me lives a person who does not consider himself a historian, he does not have the appropriate education, but I have all his books and I do not know of a more detailed study of the Crimean War. And who is popularizing whom in the media. What does science have to do with it? Science is always boring for the mass audience.
              Let's remember our childhood - the main weapon of a musketeer is a sword, right? Actually, muskets are shown only in the finale of the 4th series.
              And there is popularization and there is science, please do not confuse these two concepts.
              1. 0
                Yesterday, 23: 02
                Your friend is right, he is not a historian. A historian is a profession, in order to practice it, one needs the appropriate education. His work is not science, but journalism, even if his works fully meet the requirements for a scientific monograph. Yes, an "amateur" can be a more qualified researcher than a professional historian. This happens.
                About the media - the idea was that both science and the "alternative" are financed from the same pocket
                1. 0
                  Today, 08: 29
                  This happens, I have all the books of such an amateur, and he lives across the road from my windows. But this is more an exception than a rule. Specifically, half of military history in the Union has a problem, it was believed that military history would be dealt with by the military, but they, in turn, did not take it on, and civilians did not come in.
                  Where does science get financed? First of all, from your parents' wallet. I didn't go to graduate school, in particular, because I didn't have the money for it. As for a more qualified amateur, well, how can I tell you, Lomonosovs were also found among peasants, here it was about the same frequency. And if a person is talented, he can simply become ossified.
                  For example, I was the best specialist in history at school, but luckily for me, before entering, my parents, historians, rolled me like God a turtle and plucked my feathers, for which I am very grateful to them. Having accompanied them there, to the history department, everyone will go the same.
                  As a local historian, I can tell you that amateurs can gather a lot of information. I have books specifically received from authors. But more often, the opposite happens. And the financing is interesting. One of the reasons, not the main one, not the only one, why I never went into science was that I had no money. The second, well, I would have found it, but when would it pay off?
                  And you are talking about some kind of financing here.

                  I was a student studying the Greco-Persian wars, all my term papers and diploma were about it. I was talking about my dissertation, and they said to me: remove the war itself and focus on the demographic aspects of that period, I almost sat on my ass from what I heard. There is such a thing. There is a dissertation of a classmate about the development of the resort industry in Crimea in the 20s, which, according to the m.t.z., is enough for a term paper, a diploma at most. That's where the real problem is, they are drowning military history. It's good that we have the Internet now.
  28. +5
    1 October 2024 12: 37
    VO has gone down the drain. Hello Zen... They cut marble like butter.
    1. -1
      Yesterday, 10: 51
      Show and teach, of course there is too much oil, but I heard about toothless saws, well, it wasn't the saws themselves that worked, but the sand that was added.
  29. -2
    1 October 2024 12: 47
    The older a person is, the harder it is for him to perceive something new, something that contradicts his beliefs. I read the comments, they are mostly skeptical. I conclude that the commentators are mostly over 60 years old.
    But the youth does not believe in dogmas, rushes forward and makes discoveries, destroys established concepts. And "Ahnenerbe" was not invented by fools. What benefit they got from this is a debatable question. There was an article on this topic here.
    But in any case, knowledge becomes outdated, changes, new knowledge appears, and with it new questions that require solutions.
    For those who believe in the official history, I suggest that you personally repeat some artifact.
    Transport the Thunder Stone, build a pyramid, make a wall with polygonal masonry or an Antikythera mechanism. I assure you that after this, respect for people of past centuries will increase by an order of magnitude and an understanding will appear that not everything is so simple.
    1. +6
      1 October 2024 13: 52
      But young people do not believe in dogmas, they rush forward and make discoveries, destroy established concepts.

      Without having any brains, or the necessary experience, or knowledge. Although not all young people are like that, there are also intelligent people.
      Transport the Thunder Stone, build a pyramid

      Yeah, hire 20 people, spend 50 years to make sure that yes, it was possible. That's all. Or just turn to the experts who studied it, if you're interested in how it was done.
      I assure you that after this, respect for people of past centuries will increase by an order of magnitude and an understanding will emerge that not everything is so simple.

      Does anyone say that mega-constructions of the past centuries were easy? They weren't, of course. But they are said all the time that they could only be done with the help of super-highly developed/alien technologies. History and archeology refute this nonsense, and not that it was easy to build or that our ancestors were fools.
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 09: 22
        Golden words. Then life knocks down ambitious ignoramuses
      2. -2
        Yesterday, 09: 41
        Without having any brains, or the necessary experience, or knowledge. Although not all young people are like that, there are also intelligent people.

        Who has no experience and knowledge? People 20-30-40-50 years old? It is after 60 that cognitive abilities decline. I wrote about this age.
        Yeah, hire 20 people, spend 50 years to make sure that yes, it was possible.
        Yeah, they still don't know how they made the Antikythera mechanism. There's still no technology to lift multi-ton slabs carved from stone. But for you, everything is easy and simple.
        But the fact that they could only be produced using super-highly developed/alien technologies is something that is said all the time.

        And no one says that the technologies are alien. The point is that historical theories are not confirmed in practice. And therefore the technologies were highly developed.
    2. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 21
      It is not knowledge that becomes obsolete, but understanding. For example, I read a book about Greek armor in the 90s, one of the topics there was about defensive weapons. The author heard that there was linen armor, but he did not know what it looked like and said that it was in the form of twisted ropes. Logical, but inconvenient. I refer you to Peter Connolly for how it looked.
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 09: 43
        It is not knowledge that becomes obsolete, but understanding.

        According to scientists, knowledge becomes obsolete at a rate of:
        15 years in medicine
        in engineering 15-20 years.
        5 years in computer technology.
        1. 0
          Yesterday, 09: 49
          According to which scientists? I'm just interested in the very formulation of the question of knowledge obsolescence. Knowledge either exists or it doesn't. Information? Well, the new one has a strong influence, but where to put the old one? Well, they dug up a dead man, described competently what is obsolete there?
          My dear friend, the methodology may become obsolete. That's all.
          1. 0
            Yesterday, 09: 57
            according to modern scientists.
            Today knowledge is one thing, and tomorrow it has changed and is considered obsolete.
            What does methodology have to do with it?
            At the university they taught one kind of knowledge, after 5 years the program needs to be revised and taught another. That's what I'm talking about.
            1. 0
              Yesterday, 10: 14
              Knowledge is a methodology and it exists, when did it change, can you tell me? You are now saying like in my childhood about the musketeers, that their main weapon is a sword, and in all the movies the swords are so funny. But these are details, who really knew how to stage fencing in our country, it was a complete Ballon, who played de Jussac.
              I digressed a bit, but the program allows you to pay more attention to something and less to something else, and then it's the student's choice, he either sits around doing nothing, or wants to get something. Read school history textbooks and try to understand something there by turning off the acquired knowledge. My opinion is that it's sabotage, you can't understand a damn thing there.
              1. 0
                Today, 14: 35
                Knowledge is awareness or understanding of something, the result of the cognitive process.
                Methodology is a set of research techniques and methods.
                Research methods are changing. Previously, they could X-ray, now they use ultrasound. Previously, they drew by hand, now they make 3D models on a computer. This is a change in the methods of cognition.
                If earlier they thought that the Thunder Stone was hewn from one boulder. Now, having X-rayed it, they know that it consists of 5 parts.
                Methods have changed, knowledge has changed.
                1. 0
                  Today, 15: 10
                  What fundamental thing have you touched upon here? As someone familiar with archeology, I learned the potassium-argon dating method and radiocarbon dating and others from ancient Soviet textbooks, but none of them were used in my memory except for the simple everyday one: there is a square, there is stratigraphy, this was located higher, and this is lower.
                  But knowledge changes constantly, you are simply not obliged to be informed about it, and it, new knowledge, does not immediately get into textbooks. Let's say my textbook, excellent, Soviet, on the Ancient World lagged behind the science of that time by about 40-50 years. And what did they think about one stone - do you really think that this is an argument? So historical methodology says that the sources speak in a complex. In other words, if you found something alone and it is not tied to anything in any way, well, first of all, to the cultural layer, it means nothing.
                  There are exceptions if there is a picture or letters, you can understand the time there, it is not always true. I am for scientific and technical progress, but you do not have enough money to equip each archaeological expedition with specialists and the appropriate equipment. We do not have Caucasian dolmens, but quite massive stone boxes, how they were made I have no idea, it is obvious that they were chipped off. Well, there will be something for future generations to puzzle over.
  30. +5
    1 October 2024 13: 17
    Not an article, but a disgrace.
    Dear author, has it ever occurred to you that there is a reason why “official science” does not recognize something?
    Are you aware that there are a lot of pseudoscientists who feed on the dissemination of anti-scientific nonsense among the masses?
    And you too. You write about a 25 thousand year old pyramid and refer to... An article retracted due to an error!
    1. +2
      1 October 2024 22: 59
      To be fair. Official science, represented by the Paris Academy, officially declared that stones cannot fall from the sky (this is about meteorites, by the way)))) And that's it. Official science of the USSR declared genetics to be "the whore of capitalism")))).
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 09: 24
        And don’t confuse politics with science; I studied genetics, which doesn’t exist, using Soviet textbooks.
      2. 0
        Today, 15: 18
        To be fair, there is no such thing as official or unofficial science. Either science exists or it doesn't. And as for mistakes, that's inevitable. I myself was sure at one time that the Romans couldn't have chain mail until I saw a photographic document. Nothing terrible happened, well, yes, that means it exists, I was wrong, who doesn't?
        But you are raising the wrong issue.
        Any historian will devour another one with giblets after seeing his mistakes. For example, in his time they devoured the outstanding scientist of Rus' Rybakov, and the funniest thing is that he didn’t give a damn about all his merits, apparently he couldn’t calm down. But Rybakov was still a Great One, and when a clown climbs to tell something, tell me as an artist to an artist, what kind of attitude can there be?
  31. +1
    1 October 2024 14: 01
    Quote: Alexander Salenko
    What are you personally not allowed to research? Do you know what archeology is, for example?


    10% facts and 90% interpretations. It is desirable that the latter do not particularly contradict the theories put forward by eminent scientists, academics. Otherwise, the researcher can make influential enemies who can seriously spoil his career growth.
    Unfortunately, the humanities are strongly influenced by the "human factor", by the regard for authorities and the desire to "waver with the general party line". And those who waver badly can lose their funding at once, with all the consequences that entails...

    In the exact and natural sciences there is much less room for arbitrariness, voluntarism and partiality than in the humanities. In mathematics there is no royal road (according to Aristotle), but in historiography - quite. Considering how Emperor Nicholas forced Karamzin to edit his masterpiece several times.

    And yes, the true founder of the "New Chronology" was not Fomenko and Nosovsky, or even Morozov, but Sir Isaac Newton. And the basis of the generally accepted one was laid by Scaliger and Petavius, who were alchemists-astrologers by their main specialization, that is, charlatans. In modern conditions, they would be welcome experts for Prokopenko and REN-TV. They would promote the next "Most Shocking Hypotheses". laughing
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 09: 33
      Unfortunately, the humanities are strongly influenced by the "human factor", by the regard for authorities and the desire to "waver with the general party line". And those who waver badly can lose their funding at once, with all the consequences that entails...

      Well, you are talking absolute nonsense at this point, look at the debates between Lurye and Rybakov on Kievan Rus. Scientists are eating each other up in no time, which by the way is now openly ruining science. For example, my friend defended a topic on resorts and their development - is this really a topic for a dissertation? It's only good for a term paper at most.
      And the human factor is strong everywhere and in any activity. The issue with the new chrenologists, I have one surprise, well, they were not too lazy to write this nonsense, I read it. I laughed out loud. But here the question is to the state, which indulges charlatans.
      As for comparing sciences, do not confuse science with non-science and you will be happy. History has the same requirements as physics, and the errors are approximately the same.
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 09: 56
        Quote: Alexander Salenko
        Well, you are talking absolute nonsense at this point, look at the disputes between Lurye and Rybakov over Kievan Rus. Scientists are eating each other up in no time, which by the way is now openly ruining science.


        And who wins this squabble, as a rule? By any chance, those who were more pleasing to those in power? What, did the powers that be interfere in supposedly purely academic discussions?
        And has the one who is closer to the truth always won in scientific disputes? Or does proximity to high management and financial flows sometimes prove more significant?

        What did you expect? I myself have no direct connection to the scientific fraternity, but I came into contact with this environment at one time. The customs are quite feudal, and in some places mafia-like.
        Well, where else? Oh, it's not the gods who burn the pots, it's definitely not the gods...
        1. -1
          Yesterday, 10: 06
          And I don't earn my living from history either, or rather, not in the scientific community. And who wins? The very formulation of the question is strange. Science is not a party. Moreover, becoming a scientist is very expensive, I really did it easily, but I tried. But those who taught me, with rare exceptions, are masters, even if I don't like them as people.
          I just said about the squabbles, this concerns the 50s, if not earlier. I don't remember exactly. In other words, scientists regularly devour each other. About feudal customs. Yes, I agree. Well, for example, when I was offered to write a dissertation on the Greco-Persians, to which I happily responded. It was said: in the demographic aspect. What demography in the 5th century BC? And why the hell am I interested in such nonsense. That's the kind of nonsense that exists.
          The dissertation itself is an investment, and no one will guarantee that you will recoup it.
    2. 0
      Today, 15: 22
      Yes, this is nonsense, what enemies, scientists constantly argue with each other, which does not prevent them from drinking together at events. And there is no new chronology, we read this book out loud in the course, with great difficulty, then there was laughter. And who was standing in front of these clowns, what difference does it make? They, clowns, have about the same relation to history as astrologers have to astronomy.
  32. 0
    1 October 2024 14: 06
    I'm not interested in discussing this article. I just periodically run the marker in the hope of changes.
    History is simple. For a historian it is necessary to know classical history (otherwise it is impossible to verify), the development of technologies from their inception to the present day, geography, economics, trade, be an art historian, a linguist... understand numismatics, weapons, agriculture. History is life. If you only talk, you will not survive now and will never be able to describe life in any period of development. Alas, humanities scholars, even knowledgeable ones, can offer nothing but empty talk. Everything I have just written is also empty talk. In order to explain at least something, you need an interlocutor who knows at least some of the above. But we all have the same brains, so I will try again.
    I was designing a collection of cicada brooches. Among them I found an exact copy of the TU 144 and the MIG 21. Sensation? If you make a fuss by showing photos of only these brooches, then what a sensation. But if you lay out the entire collection by the development of form, then two lines appear. As a result of stylization, schematism, part of the cicadas from the natural form, as a result of the sharpening of the wings, then their bend is transformed into a stylized lily. The second line is when the wings gradually approach a triangle. Here among them you can find a close resemblance to airplanes that are not them. Just as an Indian gold trinket is not a model of an airplane.
    Scythian axes. If you collect all the images, starting from the very first - a rectangular iron bar with a pierced hole and a 15 mm blade to the emergence of forge welding and the beginning of the production of butt axes, then you will understand that this is the development of technology from scratch, from the emergence of iron processing. As a result, the understanding that the territory where there are no early forms, and the earliest butt axes ... what thousands of years, this is all later than the Scythians. And do not argue without information. I can cite dozens of technological chains that arose from scratch in the Scythian period.
    Sphinx? This is a remnant of a stone in a quarry from which stone for the pyramids was extracted. Yes, it is a quarry. The stone was extracted near the pyramids, and not dragged from God knows where. At a later time, a stone was placed on the remnant and a head and paws were carved. That is why the body of the sphinx is more eroded than the head.
    I won't continue. Everyone needs antiquity, mystery, grandeur. Real history is not for anyone and not for money.
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 09: 54
      Does anyone argue about the gradual development of technology? No.
      If airplanes and insects fly according to the same laws, is that a sensation? No.
      It's also quite clear about the Sphinx.
      But how can we explain the huge stone blocks that even modern technology cannot lift? Or the tool marks on the processed surfaces?
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 11: 02
        You can lift them even manually, they checked. I'll tell you more, we, in historical science, know what they ate and drank, those who did it. By the way, insects don't fly like an airplane, try catching a fly or a dragonfly in the air.
        So, Slava, I haven't been to Egypt, but near Simferopol, in the village of Pionerskoye, there is a stone box of the primitive Kemi-Oba culture. It is made either of amna, which can be extracted from there, 90 km away, or 50, they didn't have wheels, was it necessary to bother so much? The same goes for the menhirs in the Baydarskaya Valley, you can google it, there are different stones there and they were dragged from different regions. How? I don't know, but they were put there and they are still standing.
    2. 0
      Yesterday, 10: 55
      Only in reality we sometimes understand more than eyewitnesses. but you have decided everything for yourself. This concerns not only antiquities but also relatively recent events.
  33. UAT
    +4
    1 October 2024 14: 17
    Archaeologists have studied the structure of the pyramid using electrical resistivity tomography, seismic tomography and ground penetrating radar. They have found that the pyramids were built over many thousands of years and that there may be hollow chambers inside the pyramid.

    Here the author cited some clever words (research methods) that gave grounds to assume the presence of hollow chambers. So what? You can assume anything.
    By age. There is NO specific data. Many thousands - quite consistent with the age of the Cheops pyramid. After all, 4.5 thousand is many thousands.
    As for a laser beam that is not obstructed by a tree - that's outrageous.
    Dear author, why are you turning a decent site into a trash heap?
  34. +4
    1 October 2024 15: 25
    Official science does not recognize flat-earthers... shame and disgrace! laughing
    Someone has watched too many of Sklyarov's videos on slow-motion YouTube.
  35. +2
    1 October 2024 15: 53
    Roads of the Gods. Official Science Doesn't Want to See Traces of Ancient Civilization

    What...
    Am I really on VO? Or is this another alternative site?
    Articles like this should be anywhere but here.
  36. +1
    1 October 2024 17: 19
    As for the Trans-Volga wall, there would be no secret, if the author had published photos of the forts... bully
    https://www.factroom.ru/istoriya/velikaya-zavolzhskaya-stena-ot-kogo-za-nej-pryatalis-nashi-predki
  37. BAI
    +2
    1 October 2024 18: 39
    Thus, in the European part of Russia the Great Trans-Volga Wall is located.

    And how old is it? In the photo it looks like new, which is basically impossible for old earthen objects
    1. 0
      1 October 2024 21: 57
      built in the 1730s. There is no secret.
      1. -1
        Yesterday, 09: 54
        Only Herodotus saw them, probably invented them in the 5th century BC and his fantasies bam, and came true. Pyramids, a miracle, much larger than the complex in Giza If you don't know electricity, don't touch the wires, clown
  38. +1
    1 October 2024 18: 57
    Quote: nedgen
    When the alloys were made at the university, it turned out that their properties corresponded to those described in the book.

    In which?
  39. +1
    1 October 2024 19: 37
    Minute Ren-TV on VO laughing
    "Your comment is too short" tongue
  40. +2
    1 October 2024 19: 41
    The Nazis built a base on the Moon. I saw it in one movie. 100% info. But if we're talking about the essence, you'd better publish the drawings of German flying saucers, about the war in space and the tactics of the Russians against the reptilians. Otherwise, it's completely off topic.
    1. +1
      1 October 2024 19: 55
      If it weren't for the poking, I would have given it 10 points, but it's 5.
  41. +2
    1 October 2024 19: 52
    Sorry, maybe it seemed to me, but the author got carried away with alternative history.
    An alternative is of course acceptable, but within reasonable limits and in another place.
    1. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 37
      What is acceptable is not an alternative, but an opinion based on sources. That is, you can assume anything, but here, like with an investigator, what and where did you bring for your conclusions.
  42. +2
    1 October 2024 20: 20
    Of course, the article is very conspiracy-theoretic. But it is true that classical science does not move in a "democratic" way, but is formed by the opinion of a small number of generally recognized authorities in one field or another.
    I am not sure that the discovered inexplicable facts are deliberately falsified. It is enough to ignore them - and any delusion will exist for a long time. But isn't this the essence of "classical" science - to come up with a theory, then refute it with a new theory, then refute it with an even newer theory, and so on ad infinitum...
    There is a common expression that there are two infinite things - the universe and human stupidity, although this is not accurate regarding the universe.
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 11: 04
      On the contrary, smearing authority is a favorite pastime of a historian, albeit in a thesis, but I myself have done this and continue to do it in the course of my work.
  43. +5
    1 October 2024 21: 53
    How tired I am of reading "new" history. This is for the khokhols, for the Black Sea diggers. The article is fantastic nonsense. Only one remark about the "ancient" Trans-Volga Great Wall. What does this "ancient" wall with triangular bastions, characteristic of the era of firearms, most resemble?
    It looks like the Peter and Paul Fortress with the same characteristic triangular bastions.
    Why? Because everything is known about it. The Novo-Zakamsk defensive line (Historical rampart) is a system of defensive fortifications on the territory of modern Samara Oblast and the Republic of Tatarstan, built in the 1730s to protect settlements and the then borders of Russia. The dates of construction of each section of this defensive structure are known.
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 09: 56
      It is true that the bastions are 5-angled, and the three corners are a redoubt.
  44. -1
    Yesterday, 05: 08
    Articles like these are simply necessary, if only to cool the ardor of seasoned scientific falsifiers who are trying to impose on society a subjective vision of human history, often drawing far-reaching conclusions based on a single shard.

    Of course, the current article is far from perfect. For example, the information about the Gunung Padang pyramid. In fact, there are many similar pyramids in the surrounding regions, including Australia. If we consider them comprehensively, then, most likely, they are of natural origin with similar outcrops of six- and octagonal columnar rock structures on the tops of the hills. Most likely, these are the results of sluggish volcanic activity, and not the work of man, if we consider the objects up close and especially if we compare several. Of course, from a distance, the almost perfect pyramidal shape of the objects is impressive and causes a mystical awe. Someday someone will be able to explain how and under what conditions they were formed, but so far, apparently, there has been no serious research.
    However, when you read the fantasies of venerable, recognized scientists who make unfounded, often unprofessional from a technical point of view, politicized conclusions, you are surprised by their ignorance in certain areas of knowledge. Everyone should do their job and do it professionally, this is the only way to find the truth. Humanitarians, historians and archaeologists suck the history of mankind out of their fingers, instead of involving technical specialists in solving problems who are able to quickly and effectively answer many questions, and most importantly, very accurately. But you want to be the first and only in history, and most importantly, rich. It is good that today everything is changing, and falsifications are giving way to facts. We see a completely different history, different from textbooks. Those who write textbooks simply do not have time to remove subjective content from them.
  45. -1
    Yesterday, 06: 33
    And why doesn't anyone remember the star fortresses? They are located in different parts of the world and were built according to almost identical designs, the ruins of one of them, by the way, are in Yakutia, and there are suspiciously many round lakes around them
    1. -1
      Yesterday, 09: 45
      Well, I'm hearing this for the first time, but I'm already sure that this is nonsense. Not because it can't be. There's economic activity left, do you have a dump in your city?
  46. +1
    Yesterday, 07: 26
    Who could such a long wall protect from and why is it needed?
    It looks like it was attacked by zombies who couldn't just get over it.
  47. -1
    Yesterday, 07: 31
    First, it is necessary to restore the chronology using the scientific methods of Nosovsky and Fomenko.
    1. +2
      Yesterday, 09: 32
      "Restore using the scientific methods of Nosovsky and Fomenko" - don't make me laugh.
    2. -2
      Yesterday, 11: 07
      Where did you mention the scientific nature there? I read them and laughed out loud. These are books for blockheads, like songs of pop groups. I congratulate you on that. What's the point of studying history if there are gurus who have explained everything.
  48. kig
    +1
    Yesterday, 08: 14
    In Russia today we need to recreate the Russian “Heritage of Ancestors”, to restore the authentic and true history of world and Russian civilization.

    There is no need to worry about this, our respected President is working very hard on this and will not allow any Europe to distort the true history of Rus'. How many versions of history textbooks have been published already? There is not much left until the most authentic one.

    But one day in March he was a little bit of that
    Then we learned the whole truth about him.
    That he violated Marxism,
    That has taken the lives of many,
    That he drove every single one of them into the camps!
    1. 0
      Yesterday, 09: 33
      Sorry, but writing poetry is clearly not your thing.
      1. kig
        0
        Today, 18: 34
        Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
        Sorry, but writing poetry is clearly not your thing.

        and it's not me, it's a quote. The poem is called "the essence of Russian history" and, interestingly, has different content depending on the author. The version that ends like this will be suitable for the topic of the article:

        Well, that's what history is for,
        The one that
        Not so much,
        Not half as much
        Do not lie!

        Well, there is also an opinion that history is not a science at all, but rather an art... applied.
  49. 0
    Yesterday, 09: 24
    I read on the Internet: Gugun Padam: 16 thousand years ago people carved figures from cooled lava. It turns out that this is not exactly a pyramid, but a former volcano. About 8-7 thousand years BC a layer of bricks and stone columns were added. And about 2 thousand years BC terraces were added and people added a fertile layer. For comparison: the pyramid of Djoser was built 2.5 thousand years BC.
  50. 0
    Yesterday, 09: 43
    Quote from: Baobabus
    But isn't that the essence of "classical" science - to come up with a theory, then refute it with a new theory, then refute it with an even newer theory, and so on ad infinitum...


    Correction. Theories are not refuted by "fresh" theories, theories are refuted by new facts that cannot be interpreted (explained) within the framework of the previous theory. But if an inconvenient fact is removed, what prevents you from keeping the previous theory that you have become accustomed to?

    The passion for "alternativeism" is partly the fault of official historians themselves, as well as other humanities scholars. Too often they have made edits even to what was included in school textbooks.
    If we touch on the description of the notorious "Tatar-Mongols", then modern historians are all those same "alternativeists", since modern ideas about these conquerors and their "yoke", to put it mildly, differ greatly from what the same Karamzin wrote... supposedly the founder of this science in our country.
  51. 0
    Yesterday, 09: 50
    Quote: Alexander Salenko
    And don’t confuse politics with science; I studied genetics, which doesn’t exist, using Soviet textbooks.


    Alas, alas, but science and politics are not spherical horses that live in a vacuum.
    "A nuclear explosion is wonderful physics!" But, as it turns out, this use of nuclear energy also has a bearing on politics.
    Almost everything that surrounds us is connected either with politics, or with economics, or with both.
    Even the content of children's books and cartoons sometimes. Well, history... "politics turned to the past."
    Fomenko's alternativeism may be unpleasant, but when influential politicians in Western countries engage in "alternativeism" by rewriting the history of events that still have living witnesses, it is much more serious...
  52. 0
    Yesterday, 10: 05
    Quote: Alexander Salenko
    As for comparing sciences, do not confuse science with non-science and you will be happy. History has the same requirements as physics, and the errors are approximately the same.


    However, there is a difference. In physics, as in other related sciences, His Majesty Experiment rules the roost. The truth can be verified experimentally, and repeatedly and by the hands of different groups of researchers.
    Question: How do you imagine experiments in history? How can we determine where the general is and where is a random particularity? Is it possible to replay historical events, perhaps in different conditions, and draw general conclusions on this basis?
    Alas, but unlike physics, history is largely a descriptive science, more a variant of natural philosophy than a real science. Written sources (often biased and one-sided), fragmentary data from archaeologists... what else?
    Alas, time machines have not yet been invented. Then knowledge of history, like in physics, would become invariant, that is, truly reliable.
  53. 0
    Yesterday, 10: 17
    Quote: Alexander Salenko
    The very formulation of the question is strange. Science is not a party


    No. Not at all strange. Science is a continuous battle of minds. And not only minds, alas. And science has its winners and losers.
    Well, history (pun intended, however) is written by the victors.
  54. +1
    Yesterday, 10: 34
    Is there really nothing to write about on the resource? Articles like these undermine the authority of the publication
  55. 0
    Yesterday, 12: 10
    The late explorer Andrei Sklyarov made many expeditions in search of traces of ancient civilizations, a series of his films can be found on the Internet - watch it, it's very fascinating.
  56. +1
    Yesterday, 13: 44
    All these articles can be called - I want to believe.
    There is no evidence that the pyramid is 25 thousand years old, nor are there any traces of human presence. Most likely, it is of natural origin.
    Science is complicated and boring, but alternative scientists give simple answers to complicated questions, that's the secret of their popularity.
  57. 0
    Yesterday, 14: 57
    People who lived in latitudes without winter could afford to create in the arts, and we only had to survive the winter and save the only harvest. Before the invention of antibiotics, people died like flies. Many great, by those standards, inventors of all sorts of things passed away with their assistants because of some cholera, and, alas, there was no one to read the drawings)
  58. +2
    Yesterday, 15: 16
    Oh my! They opened a RenTV branch in VO?
    Take away Samsonov's bedding already, he writes such nonsense from article to article, it's just brutal
  59. 0
    Yesterday, 16: 38
    Again this most ardent defender of all things Russian Samsonov..... When will he finally do his own thing? By deeds prove his involvement in the Russian world and culture..
  60. +1
    Yesterday, 22: 30
    Everything can be built.
    Even you can polish the Alexander Column by hand if you are given the right, uh, incentives.
  61. 0
    Today, 00: 29
    It was always strange to me, why was there an ancient civilization everywhere, and since the baptism of Rus we supposedly have been developing... and before that, for 988 years, our ancestors sat on pine trees and mooed? Where did such a wall, Arkaim, Scythians, Altaian DNA come from in the Indians in America?
    1. +1
      Today, 08: 08
      Quote: bmv1202
      Where did such a wall come from then, Arkaim, the Scythians, the DNA of the Altai people from the Indians in America?

      The wall was built in the early 18th century, there will be an article about it. And everything else has nothing to do with the Slavs! And we couldn't have an ancient civilization. Its last one is definitely on the territory of the Russian Federation - the Greek city of Tanais. Articles about Greek colonies on the territory of the Russian Federation are about to appear on VO - that's where you can read where the ancient civilization came from, and where it was, and where it wasn't!
  62. +1
    Today, 00: 43
    Official science stubbornly refuses to see traces of an ancient civilization in the taiga and jungle.

    Well, not long ago I read an article in a Western media outlet about how their archaeologists found traces of a civilization on Russian territory that is more than 8000 years old.
  63. +1
    Today, 01: 35
    A 25 thousand year old pyramid was found in Indonesia.

    not the pyramid itself is 25 thousand years old, but some soil samples from the base of the pyramid, which does not mean anything. Incidentally, the article was removed from publication a few months later at the initiative of the publisher itself: "We received feedback from geophysicists, archaeologists, and specialists in radiocarbon dating, studied them, and came to the conclusion that the article contains a fundamental error"...
    You don't need to read the rest of the nonsense. In general, it's some kind of Spanish shame... Why is THIS here?
  64. 0
    Today, 09: 00
    How did this nonsense get onto topvar? You're degenerating!