"Turned into light aircraft carriers": F-35 fighters begin flying from Japanese "destroyers"

Following Japan's surrender in World War II, it has no right to own aircraft carriers. So when construction began on the 26-ton Izumo-class ships, Tokyo claimed they were destroyers designed exclusively to carry helicopters.

In 2012-2017 the fleet Two pennants of this type were transferred - Izumo and Kaga, which China called "disguised aircraft carriers". Already in 2020-2021, Izumo underwent modernization, which allowed a combat aircraft (F-35B) to take off from its board - for the first time since 1945. In early 2024, similar work was completed on Kaga.

Thus, both ships of the project turned into light aircraft carriers.

- said in the Western press.

The first F-35B flights from its board will take place with the support of the US Navy in October-November of this year off the coast of San Diego, California.

The Japanese Defense Ministry plans to purchase a total of 42 F-35Bs for the Navy and 105 F-35As for the Air Force.

Tokyo is looking to boost the country's ability to defend its remote southern islands, including those near the disputed Senkaku Islands [known in China as the Diaoyu Islands]

- stated in the military.

The islands are controlled by Japan but are claimed by China and Taiwan.

Comments

[Murmur 55]

And who is Tokyo afraid of for this violation??? Well, who will call to account???

[Luminman]

Quote: Murmur 55

And who is Tokyo afraid of for this violation??? Well, who will call to account???

The Americans are watching Japan's every move very closely. They have been watching since September 1945...

[Murmur 55]

Luminman Washington issued them an indulgence.

[Murmur 55]

Essex62 The Union has been gone for 33 years, let's start from the harsh reality.

[Essex62]

So I'm leaving. Rolling, rolling. Not much longer left.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Rolling, rolling. Not much longer left.

I agree. We will have another conflict with Japan, and in the near future. And the guarantor will draw more red lines.
A big capitalist thank you to the guarantor and his accomplices. They destroyed everything. Military schools, the military-industrial complex, the army, the air force, the navy, space programs, etc.
And after 25 years of rule, they dragged us into a war with 50 capitalist countries on the planet. And the most important thing is that no one is afraid of us at all. Including neither the Baltics nor Japan.

[torbas41]

They are afraid and very much so, especially Japan and England are countries located on islands, they have no chance of surviving in conflicts, not a word, and the Balts are not countries at all, just a name. That's why they howl and lick the boots of their overseas masters, they understand that if there is no master, all that will remain of them is "zilch".

[sleeve]

They managed to stop the collapse of the army and defense industry, which was being pedaled from abroad. They managed to preserve the defense industry and surpassed NATO in production potential, taking advantage of the global situation. They reduced the pressure of the defense budget on GDP to imperceptible levels, even in wartime, no special sacrifices are required. And this is taking into account the financial support of the Russian soldier, which has not been observed during the entire existence of Russia. They brought the level of the Armed Forces first to the ability to conduct local wars at a distance (Syria), which the USSR had enough strength for with difficulty and at a very high cost, and the Russian Federation for an acceptable price. And then they raised the level to what the USSR did not dare to do throughout its post-war history. A direct military clash for the interests of Russia with a large European state with the opposition of the entire NATO and EU bloc. As if the same is written correctly, although not in your opinion))

[dimon642]

This essay is about the wise and unique, there are no analogues, unique. How the USSR conducted operations in Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Nicaragua. And that they won in Syria. There, 60 percent are under Assad's control. And there are US bases. Ours are against it and won't twitch. The Turks seized the entire north.

[sleeve]

And how did the USSR conduct operations in the countries listed? Were there any victories there? No. Afghanistan? No. In Syria, they preserved the state and did not allow radical Islamization. And what would the USSR have done if, for example, Pakistan and Iran had entered Afghanistan? It would not have twitched either. Just as it did not twitch when Pershings were being placed in Europe, when weapons were being sent to Afghanistan almost openly, when the State Department told it to its face that it did not recognize the incorporation of the Baltics into the USSR. The USSR had quite a brain and responsibility and was in no hurry to "hit" as many (or rather, not many) wanted, and without hitting, it did not pull off the insolent policy of the ovs.

[dimon642]

In Angola, who owns the power? In Iran, Soviet troops carried out operations to eliminate the bases of the dushmans. And in Pakistan, it was already flying. Even the president was removed, under the guise of a helicopter crash. And who recognizes Assad as president.

[sleeve]

What does "an essay about a wise man" have to do with it? I've shown you a way to read the facts. If you can smash them with arguments, you're welcome. But trying to add negativity through the hackneyed cliches of "anti-guards" is, excuse me, out of place. Or you'll also somehow wrap it up with "galoshes". I'm simply demonstrating that the words "pub, Cossack, grandfather, order, revolver", etc. are read from both sides))

[dimon642]

Nagan is not a Russian word. And the facts, the facts are that today's Russia is not the Soviet Union, they were not even close. Putin is not readable from both sides. He does not even reach Brezhnev's level. They have only one thing in common. Have you heard the joke from the Brezhnev era about Alla Pugacheva.

[sleeve]

Does it make a difference that it is not Russian, if it can be read?)) Of course not the USSR. It does not buy bread. They build the same amount of housing for 78 million workers as 178 million in the Union (and after all, 40 percent of reinforced concrete products were destroyed) and they dismantle/buy up (at least there were no problems a couple of years ago). Were there traffic jams on the roads in the USSR? I repeat once again that everyone and their dog can twist the facts as they please. This is called interpretation and opportunism. For example, for some reason you want to criticize the current situation. And for some reason you flaunt the experience of the USSR, which ended in collapse. This does not cancel out its achievements and its positive role as a state of workers and peasants. But obviously the number of errors has exceeded the permissible strength of the structure... I just presented the facts in a certain sequence and ask you to argue where I am wrong in the interpretation, and not to arrange a competition with the unfortunately collapsed red empire.

[dimon642]

My wife's pension is about 15 thousand. She was lucky, she waited for six months. To get confirmation of work for the Ministry of Defense, I had to write to Moscow, Khabarovsk, Syzran. The answers were different, from the archive burned down to the lack of data. It's good that they counted 5 years as an officer's wife. I'm 61, at least I'm retired as a former military man. And so there are still 4 years until retirement. For men, the retirement age is from 65 years old if the average age is 60 years old. And this is normal. About bread. The state does not grow bread. Private individuals plant it, the state was not even close. We also take into account that the climate has changed, the grain has time to ripen and is harvested without problems. I have something to compare with. Our life and life in gay Europe according to you. The comparison is not in our favor.

[sleeve]

Thank God, my parents are still alive. 45 years of service. 32 thousand pension each. I'll be 50 in a year. Salary 72-75 as a loader in a warehouse with 15 days off a month. Life expectancy in the USSR for men in 1984, for example, was 62,4 years, in Russia in 2023 66,3. That is, things are better in the USSR than in Russia by 14 months, but this is worthy of epic criticism? Maybe it's not about the country then? By the way, I see you are not aware of how agriculture is organized in Russia today)) Maybe it's time to stop competing in counterarguments? Besides, it becomes unclear to those who read (including me) what you are striving for...

[Tataurof]

"The Japanese economic miracle" which started so abruptly ended out of nowhere, because you shouldn't allow a vassal to be too strong or too rich.

[Blackmokona]

Quote: Tataurof

"The Japanese economic miracle" which had started so abruptly ended out of nowhere, because you shouldn't allow a vassal to be too strong or too rich.

They simply ran into population limitations. Japan has half as many people as the US. Therefore, the economy, with equal development, cannot be more than 50% of the American one. Now in Japan, the population is rapidly aging and shrinking. Which neutralizes the growth of technology, creating stagnation

[dimon642]

Well, yes, the stagnation of the Japanese economy. Toyota alone produces more cars than all of Russia. And the country's household appliances are bought all over the world. How many models of basins with bolts does AvtoVAZ produce? How many trains with a speed of over 200 km per hour run across Russia. Probably our Su 57 flies so coolly over Kuzya.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Luminman

The Americans are watching Japan's every move very closely. They have been watching since September 1945...

Draw red lines and express concerns?

The US didn't give a damn about Japan as long as it was opposing China. The Yankees didn't even give a damn about Japan's creeping renunciation of the fundamental Ninth Article of the Constitution. The very Constitution that the Yankees wrote for the Japanese.

Article 9. Sincerely striving for international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounces war as the sovereign right of the nation, as well as the threat or use of armed force as a means of resolving international disputes.
To achieve the goal specified in the previous paragraph, ground forces, naval and air forces, as well as other means of war, will never be created again. The right to wage war by a state is not recognized.

IJA and IJN have already been recreated under the brand of Self-Defense Force. Aircraft carriers - so far only light. Long-range missiles - also exist. The principle of self-defense as defense of only one's own territory has been replaced by the principle of "collective self-defense" - that is, when attacking an ally, Japan has the right to use SS outside the country.

[Luminman]

Quote: Alexey RA

The US doesn't give a damn about Japan

Not at all. They still remember Pearl Harbor very well.

When, after the defeat of Japan, the Americans were deciding what to do with it - to reduce it to an underdeveloped state with an agrarian economy or to tie it to their market, the second decision prevailed. Now Japan is under complete American control and if it makes a move, it will immediately lose the American market, which means the complete end of the Japanese economy. And don't forget about the American bases on the Japanese islands...

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Murmur 55

Well, who will call to account???

World League for Sexual Reform!

[Msi]

World League for Sexual Reform

Yeah, these guys will definitely screw you over if they want to...

[solar]

What violation? There is no violation, Japan is not prohibited from having armed forces or a navy of any kind. They only have self-restrictions in this matter.

[Lionnvrsk]

What's new in this article? This topic has been discussed on VO since 2017.
Here is an article from 2021, even the picture is the same.
https://topwar.ru/187781-vpervye-posle-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojny-s-japonskogo-avianosca-vzleteli-samolety.html

[rocket757]

They are not just allowed to not comply with this or that, they are being pushed to prepare for aggressive actions, later or soon, this is an interesting question.

[tlauicol]

It's not China they need. It's the Kuril Islands. They can't handle China.

[Alexander Salenko]

That's right, they've been on the Kuril Islands for a long time... well, you understand. And not only them, they're also interested in locking up our Pacific Fleet.

[Dingo]

They don't need China. They need the Kuril Islands.

You don't have to go to your granny... And they'll place bases on the islands, these, what are they called, "exceptional" ones...
And they will lock up our only fleet...

[Neutral Neutral]

China will be kicked around by the crowd, and the Japanese fleet will play a significant role in this matter.

[Viktor Sergeev]

They turned into a penis. An airplane requires maintenance, fuel, weapons, and a destroyer is already crammed with everything. A helicopter, for which the deck can still be used, consumes much less than anything else.

[Cartalon]

Try reading the article before writing a comment, this type of destroyer has a displacement of 26000 tons

[tlauicol]

Do you think you are smarter than the Japanese? Or is this just self-satisfaction?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

An airplane requires maintenance, fuel, weapons, and a destroyer is already crammed with just enough of everything.

This "destroyer" is larger than the British light carrier class "Invincible".
This is Japan - they call anything larger than a frigate a "destroyer". Their armed forces are still called the Self-Defense Forces.

[Lech from Android.]

I hope the samurai don't set their sights on the Kuril Islands.

[Murmur 55]

Lyokha from Android , it is quite possible that E.S. is already openly licking his lips at Kaliningrad; Japan has been demanding the Kuril Islands since the last century; they will agree on a simultaneous operation and pull it off.

[KukuRuzvelt]

They are afraid to do something openly, unless they are complete idiots. They are constantly shaking anyway, and the fact of using a nuclear weapon against them was, I think our leadership should not have a tremor in this case.

[Murmur 55]

KukuRuzvelt there is a repulsed Poland which thinks that NATO will cover it, in the East there is Japan which Washington will give “guarantees” of security and support.

[KukuRuzvelt]

Yes, the whole world already sees what their "guarantees" and "aid" lead to. I don't even know, hypothetically, if everyone suddenly stopped and all military actions stopped and everyone went home. Even in this case, Ukraine will not recover. Europe and America will demand full payment for their help, and then there will be nothing to recover.

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

"I hope the samurai don't set their sights on the Kuril Islands"

[Soldatov V.]

I liked these Japanese ships "Izumo" and "Kaga". They would be very suitable for our
Navy. With KA-52 and Yak-141. Two ships for each fleet.

[Murmur 55]

Soldatov V. Yeah, it didn't work out with the Mistrals, let's take these away

[Soldatov V.]

I didn't write to buy or squeeze. Based on the ideas of this project, you can build your own ships.
The project is interesting after all. Why not use them in your shipbuilding.
By the way, our UDC may be better, where can I look at the project?

[TermNachTer]

The concept of a light aircraft carrier died already near the Falklands. Not to mention how to now shove a "penguin" into a hangar that was designed for completely different aircraft.

[evgen1221]

Actually, no, for projecting force, especially for increasing the crowd and in general, very good. Another thing is that without the permission of the US they would not have made them, it is possible that nuclear weapons have been secretly available for a long time

[TermNachTer]

What can an air group of such an aircraft carrier do? 6-8 "Penguins". Show off - yes, really influence something - no.

[evgen1221]

When they join the crowd, and the West doesn’t know how to do it any other way and Japan won’t be able to, then it won’t be so funny, and local support for the landing will be strengthened, they won’t let reinforcements be brought in by sea, why not.

[TermNachTer]

For local support of the landing force, the mattresses have a UDC, they were specially made that way. If there is a "nimits", then the Japanese have nothing to do there - it will outdo a dozen of them. And if there is no "nimits", then the Japanese have nothing to do there either, it can do little on its own.

[Sumotori_380]

There are no rules in war. That's why the reproach that the West can't do anything other than fight in a crowd seems childishly cute

[Alexander Salenko]

If you are talking about Hermes, then what difference does it make who gets hit by the bomb, a light or a regular aircraft carrier? The point is that the Argentine attack was missed and let me remind you that although it was successful, there was only one. And any trough sinks and a couple of light aircraft carriers are certainly more expensive than one capital one, but this is the distribution of an air wing across two carriers. So you can argue about this as much as you like.
Just in case, I objected not because I think so, I don’t know what is right, but there are arguments for and against.

[TermNachTer]

No, I'm talking about purely operational characteristics. How to fight without AWACS? It's not there yet. How to supply the air group with fuel and lubricants, and the aircraft carrier itself eats fuel and lubricants like crazy. If initially they were counting only on helicopters, and "verticals" in the vertical takeoff and landing mode guzzle kerosene - it's a real shame. The hangar was originally designed for helicopters, how can you stuff a "penguin" in there? And a lot of other technical questions.

[solar]

Argentina had an aircraft carrier with supersonic horizontal takeoff aircraft. And what did it give it?

[TermNachTer]

It probably was, but no one saw it, even close to the Falklands)))

[solar]

The main thing is not the size, but the ability to use it...

[TermNachTer]

What does size have to do with it if the Argentines hid it as far away as possible?

[solar]

Effective weapons are not hidden, but used. Like the British, for example, their aircraft carriers.

[TermNachTer]

And who said that this scrap metal was effective? It was kept in the fleet for reasons of prestige.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: TermNachTER

The concept of a light aircraft carrier died near the Falklands.

Japan has no other options for now. A destroyer weighing 60 tons is too brazen even for them.
So the Overton window is moved by the method of successive approximations: first the EM "Haruna", then the EM "Ise". Now here is the aircraft carrier EM "Izumo".
And then they will reach the heavy aircraft-carrying destroyers of the Shinano type.

Quote: TermNachTER

Not to mention how to now fit a “penguin” into a hangar that was designed for completely different aircraft.

He-he-he... back in 2010, when the Izumo was just being designed, there was information that the design of the ships was calculated for possible basing and operation from the decks of the Penguins and Ospreys.

[TermNachTer]

1. I don't know, if the Japanese have a lot of money, then they can experiment. But in a war these experiments will be of little use.
2. Judging by the hangar size, they didn't really count on it. The Osprey fits in there with great difficulty and takes up a lot of space. The Penguin fits in, but the dimensions of the planes, especially for the "C" modification, are also sad. And I repeat - the fuel consumption of the "Penguin" is outrageous. Well, the maximum speed of the "B, C" modifications is 1450 km/h - not enough. And what about the AWACS?

[solar]

"Penguin" fits, but the dimensions of the planes, especially in the "C" modification, are also sad.

What is modification C doing there?

[TermNachTer]

Nothing at all, it just has the largest dimensions, I gave it as an example. But it doesn't really matter. Even if we're talking about "B", it still won't be much.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Luminman

The Americans are watching Japan's every move very closely. They have been watching since September 1945...

And who supplied these planes to the Japanese?
Like Duremar from the fairy tale about Buratino: "And I have nothing to do with it!"?

[TermNachTer]

I think that in the airplanes, in the software, there is some kind of bookmark that instantly turns the plane into a big piece of useless iron. The trick has been known for a long time, even the Iraqis appreciated it the hard way)))

[Alexey RA]

Quote: TermNachTER

I think that in airplanes, in the software, there is some kind of bookmark that instantly turns the airplane into a big piece of useless iron.

Taiwanese pager?

[TermNachTer]

No, I think something more serious, somewhere in the software. Especially since according to the terms of the contract, software modifications and updates are a mandatory procedure. Whether you want it or not.

[evgen1221]

Build up medium-range missiles on the Kuril Islands with warheads made of all sorts of chemicals and say that this is how we will remotely deliver chemical fertilizers to the Japanese on the fields at specific points and vitamins to the residents of the cities. So what? They will get away with it on the same grounds.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Lech from Android.

I hope the samurai don't set their sights on the Kuril Islands.

What prevented you from taking aim in the 90s?
The Japanese should sit on their butts. If something happens, they will have to deal not only with the Russian Federation, but also with the DPRK and the PRC. The Japanese value their comfortable life too much to take obvious risks.
Increasing the armament of the Japanese army is not a topic about militarism, but purely about money, profits of American arms companies. There are not many countries that can be foisted off expensive modern weapons, Japan is a very convenient market for the American military-industrial complex (fortunately, there are no competitors).

[Blackmokona]

Quote: Illanatol

The Japanese should sit on their butts. If anything happens, they will have to deal not only with the Russian Federation, but also with the DPRK and the PRC.

Well, they won't be climbing alone. And NATO is their friend, as well as half of the Pacific region states, plus India.

[Neutral Neutral]

The hegemon doesn't care who values ​​what: they'll launch propaganda and drive them to the slaughter, like they did with the Ukrainians.
In the 90s, the "end of history" got in the way, which seemed to hit some people in Washington in the forehead.

[Rurikovich]

I spoke about this 7-8 years ago, that vessels with a displacement of 25000 tons and a continuous flight deck cannot be destroyers.

[Yuras_Belarus]

Nobody is afraid of school and schoolchildren during war? And in vain. The Japanese have turned Izumo and Kaga into school classrooms where they learn to use full-fledged aircraft carriers. Everything is going like Hitler and Versailles: first the Americans and Europeans impose severe restrictions; then they ignore "minor violations and deviations"; then some of the restrictions are lifted or "modernized"; even further they approve an increase in the production of tractors and yachts with large barrels; and as a result - they spit on all the restrictions when the "victim of the restrictions" goes to fight the enemies of the Americans and Europeans. So the Japanese are moving further and further along the path of remilitarization.

[solar]

They are doing it like Hitler did with Versailles: first the Americans and Europeans impose harsh restrictions

There are no and never have been any restrictions on Japan regarding its navy or army. All their restrictions are an internal matter for Japan itself.

[voyaka uh]

What I wrote about 10 years ago has happened: the F-35B will transform any a large ship with a helipad into a mini-aircraft carrier.
Aircraft carrier "jump".
All you need to do is add a steel sheet with a heat sink to the helipad.
All UDCs are now being converted into mini-aircraft carriers. And now it's the turn of destroyers.
The F-35B has a fair amount of experience. Takeoff and landing are automatic, no catapults, ski-jumps or arresting gear are needed.

[solar]

Japan's Defense Ministry plans to purchase a total of 42 F-35Bs for the fleet

That is 21 aircraft per ship with a full displacement of 26 thousand tons. There will also probably be helicopters, at least search and rescue ones, to support flights.

[Illanatol]

Quote from Neutral Neutral

The hegemon doesn't care who values ​​what: they'll launch propaganda and drive them to the slaughter like they did with the Ukrainians

The Japanese are not Ukrainians, such primitive methods will not work on them. They are not that kind of people.
At one time, the Yankees were waging a war in Vietnam. Wasn't it a good time to use yesterday's samurai, who had already been to Vietnam, by the way? But something prevented this from happening. The Yankees understood that there would be no sense in such an undertaking, so they didn't try.
Besides, the Ukrainian economy and industry are not worth a dime in the eyes of the hegemon, but the Japanese one does have a certain value. The hegemon would be sorry to lose it.
So - no. There will be no significant military adventures involving the Japanese. There are enough Papuans in our world who can be used as cannon fodder. The hegemon will continue to protect such a valuable skilled labor resource.
At least until it starts leaving the region...

[Illanatol]

Quote from solar

There are no and never have been any restrictions on Japan regarding its navy or army. All their restrictions are an internal matter for Japan itself.

There were no "internal affairs" after the defeat in WWII. The Japanese constitution (which enshrined the ban on the army) was written under the dictation of the occupation authorities.
The occupation is actually continuing and the Japanese will not be able to do anything without Yankee sanction.

[Larich]

Well, first of all, there are more than two of them. And they are called destroyers of the Huyuga type. I think there is a closed project on how to turn them into a full-fledged aircraft carrier in a short period of time (in 2-5 days). Well, then, hold on, everyone around.