Astute submarine: "Neither the US nor Russia has anything like this." Allow me to doubt

57
Astute submarine: "Neither the US nor Russia has anything like this." Allow me to doubt

Marketing is a tricky business, especially when it comes to selling complex products like ships. Yet everyone who can build them sells them, even nuclear submarines.

It is worth recalling what a scandal and noise there was when Australia gave France a slap by refusing to buy French nuclear submarines in favor of British and American ones. Many of us then noted with satisfaction the fact that France had been "mistrayed", and deservedly so.



But one thing is a billion euros for two UDCs, and quite another is 66 billion dollars for 12 nuclear submarines. And the entire program, let me remind you, is estimated by experts at 245 billion US dollars. It includes the construction of the entire infrastructure for the nuclear submarine fleet and training of crews with engineering and technical staff. The Australians plan to purchase both American Virginias and British Astutes. In a 3 to 1 ratio, naturally, in favor of American ships.


Apparently, the British decided that “That’s not enough!” and many foreign media outlets began publishing a wave of publications about how wonderful the Astute boat is, how it has no analogues in NATO, and literally one more step and there will be no analogues in the world.

But is it?


The Astute class submarines, developed after the end of the Cold War to replace the Royal Navy's Trafalgar class, represent a technological leap forward. And that's only natural - what do you expect from boats laid down a quarter of a century after the Trafalgars? Of course they're bound to be better and more modern!

The replacement of the Trafalgars began to be planned back in the late 80s, simply because the boats were nothing worth cherishing. Plus, they were outdated in comparison to the general background and were clearly weak compared to the Russian Shchuka-B series boats.

The good American allies offered the Royal Navy their newest boat, the SSN 20 project, which was designed specifically to counter Russian submarines, and in principle, the SSN 20 was a very decent project. What was indecent was its cost, which made everyone's hair stand on end.

Yes, when the Cold War was going on, no one really counted dollars and pounds, but in the 90s everything suddenly changed. The enemy, against whom it was necessary to be very close friends, crumbled to dust, and the ghost of a flock of nuclear submarines under the red (okay, white and blue with a red star, sickle and hammer) sank into the abyss.

And then it turned out that the project, which we now know as Seawolf, was not needed because of its astronomical cost. And everyone, including the US Navy, abandoned the boats, the Americans preferred the more practical "Virginias", and the British had no choice but to develop a new boat.

This is how Astute came into being.


Since British companies were directly involved in the work on Seawolf, they took the path of least resistance: they developed a new boat, starting from the Trafalgar platform, but with an eye on Seawolf. True, without hysteria, that is, if the old Los Angeles had 7 noise sensors scattered around the hull, Seawolf carried 600 (!!!), then Astute decided to make do with 120 sensors. It was not possible to find data on how many noise sensors Trafalgar had, but this is not essential.

The Astute's electronic armament is quite up-to-date. There is even an innovation - there are no optical periscopes. Instead, thermal imaging sensors and all-round cameras are mounted on two special masts, providing a full picture to the central control post.


The submarine's sonar system is based on the Sonar 2076 sonar developed by Thales Underwater Systems for the Trafalgar. This system consists of an integrated set of active and passive equipment, including bow, stern, side and towed sensor arrays.

The hydroacoustic system consists of the following equipment:
- obstacle detection sonar type 2077;
- oceanographic sonar type 2094;
- active-passive bow sonar type 2079;
- bow fire control system type 2078;
- towed antenna type 2065.

All this wealth works for the Astute combat control system, developed specifically for this boat. Plus almost 40 special tiles that cover the Astute hull, and which significantly reduce the noise level produced by the boat when moving at depth.

The armament… Seems to be okay too: heavy Spearfish torpedoes and cruise missiles missiles Tomahawk Block IV.

Spearfish is very difficult to call new weapons: the development dates back to the 70s, the first torpedoes were produced in 1992, deliveries were completed in 2003. How many torpedoes were produced is not disclosed.

In 2009, a modernization program began that affected the torpedo's seeker, tactical guidance systems and fuel system, as well as improvements to the guidance channel.

In 2014, BAE Systems and TDW were awarded a £270 million contract by the UK MoD for another upgrade of the Spearfish torpedo. The upgrade includes a new warhead from TDW, changes to the fuel system to improve safety, full digitalisation of the weapon and a new fibre-optic guidance link.

In general, the torpedo is old, but it will still serve. For a good weapon, this is normal. The torpedo can travel 56 km at a speed of 80 knots (almost 150 km/h), which is impressive. A good torpedo.

The same can be said about Tomahawk Block IV. True, there is information that the British military wants to replace the missiles with Tomahawk Block V, but in any case, this is not the most advanced weaponry today.

Astute has the ability to carry 38 different weapons and launch them through its six 533mm torpedo tubes.


About running qualities. Underwater speed is a standard 30 knots, the range of the trip is practically limited only by food supplies and psychological qualities of the crew, because Astute can produce air and water independently. The maximum diving depth is 300 meters.

Did you see anything out of the ordinary? Well, except for the lack of periscopes - everything, as they say, is like people have.

Let's take a look at Virginia?



The performance is about the same, but it swims a little faster (34 knots) and dives a little deeper. The working depth of diving is the same 300 meters, but if the pressure is really strong, then the Virginia can go 450 meters. Not for long, but it can.

Range and autonomy are limited in the same way by food supplies and the crew's psyche.

Armament. Here everything is more interesting compared to the British boat. There are only four torpedo tubes, the caliber is the same, 533 mm. The ammunition complement is 26 torpedoes. And - 12 launch tubes for "Tomahawks". Here is a cardinal difference: yes, Astute can fire 4 cruise missiles from torpedo tubes. Why four? Well, two tubes must be with torpedoes just in case. The "Virginia" has 8 more missiles in a salvo, and 2 more torpedoes.

"Axes" are practically the same, we will not talk about them. Everyone knows what a "Tomahawk" is. But torpedoes are a more interesting matter.

The Mark 48 ADVCAP Mod 6 torpedo is a further development of the 1972 model torpedo! The Mark 48 torpedoes are designed to destroy surface targets and high-speed submarines. Uses an active and passive homing system and can be controlled by wire. Like the British one, the Mark 48 is equipped with a multiple attack system, which is used when the target is lost. The torpedo independently searches for, captures and attacks the target using active and passive sonars. The torpedo has a range of up to 38 km at a speed of 55 knots or up to 50 km at a speed of 40 knots. The maximum diving depth is 800 meters.

In general, the American torpedo will be weaker than the British one in terms of performance characteristics. There is a very big difference in terms of range/speed.

True, there is a nuance: instead of a torpedo, the American submarines can be loaded with the Harpoon anti-ship missile. This relatively small missile with a subsonic speed and a high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 227 kg can fly from 90 to 280 km depending on the modification. A good addition to the set of weapons.


The Virginia's hydroacoustic system is completely borrowed from Seawolf. It's hard to say how the Americans managed to fit the AN/BQQ-10 sonar system into the bow, given that the Virginia's hull diameter is noticeably smaller than that of the Seawolf-type boats (10,4 instead of 12,9 meters, i.e. 2,5 meters smaller), but they managed to cope with this task.

In general, the electronic warfare (EW) of the Virginia is at a very high level, this is worth noting.


In addition, the boat also has equipment for special operations - unmanned underwater vehicles, an airlock for divers, a deck mount for a container or a midget submarine.


The British boat can also carry a camera for underwater special forces, so in principle there is parity, it’s just that the Americans have a wider range.

Well, and perhaps it’s worth saying a word about the real enemy.

Project 885 "Ash"



You know, a big bear against the background of plump boars. The displacement and size of the "Yasen" is much larger than the British and American boats, which, in general, affected its capabilities.

The speed is classic, 31 knots. The range/autonomy is classic, that is, more than the Americans and the British. Ours can step over the edge if the Motherland orders. The Yasen dives to 500 meters, and if necessary, it can go to 600, which in this regard leaves competitors closer to the surface.

It is clear that modern torpedoes dive up to a kilometer, but the deeper they go, the harder it is to detect. So depth is, whatever you say, a considerable advantage of the Russian submarine.

The ship is equipped with the Irtysh hydroacoustic system with a huge spherical hydroacoustic antenna "Amphora", really huge for a submarine, occupying the entire bow of the hull, where our boats traditionally had torpedo tubes. That's why the TA had to be moved to the second compartment, but there are 10 torpedo tubes: 8 533-mm caliber and 2 650-mm caliber. As they say, we are not greedy, but thrifty and homely for all occasions. You never know what we might have to fire...

Western naval experts admit that the new boat has a high level of hydroacoustic stealth, which is comparable to the best American submarine of the Seawolf class. Of course, an American boat cannot be worse than a Russian one, but the fact that the Americans recognize the high level of stealth of the Yasen is already good. And then practice will show who is quieter.


Armament. We won't even talk about torpedoes, unfortunately, we are lagging behind here. When the "Futlyars" will be in the devices is a question, but when they will be - this torpedo is quite comparable to the Mark 48. The cavitation rocket-torpedo "Shkval" - well, let's say this is not a weapon for every occasion. Yes, it is a very fast (350 km / h) torpedo, it is almost impossible to dodge, but the range is 13 km, the inability to install a seeker, terrible noise, unmasking both the torpedo and the submarine, and the most unpleasant thing is the operating depth of up to 30 meters. That is, you can't really shoot at submarines. So it seems like a wunderwaffe, but there are a lot of nuances ...

But a submarine is not strong only with a torpedo. 8 launch tubes, each of which can accommodate 3 Onyx missiles - that's strong. And that's especially strong now, when the missile has passed all combat tests and the Ukrainians themselves have admitted their impotence: the Onyx cannot be taken by anything. Neither by the Patriot nor by the Iriska. We won't even mention older models. The Onyx is very serious.

But there is something to load besides the Onyx. Torpedo tubes, since we are not very good with torpedoes, can be used to launch such "cute" things as the Kh-35 anti-ship missile and 3M54 Kalibr. In general, the Yasen is a very versatile boat, armed with more modern missile weapons than its opponents.

And what is this advantage of Astute that they talk about so much?


We looked at three boats. British, American, Russian.

A question arises that is hard to answer right away: what is this advantage of the Astute that people talk about? How is this boat better than its analogues? Running performance? No. Detection equipment? It is very difficult to judge. Low noise? Okay, maybe. Armament? Also no, the British boat does not have the most impressive set. Sorry, but noise protection alone is clearly not enough, and anyway, after 25 knots no protection will save you, the boats roar, pushing through the water so that only the deaf will not hear them.

So acoustic stealth is akin to radar stealth: those who really need it will see and hear it. Of course, it will be harder to detect a plane or a boat than competitors, but as practice has shown, all this is more than relative.

40 tiles made of a special material to reduce boat noise are great. But who said that these tiles are better than what our submarines are finished with? Previously, this strange, rubber-like "Medusa" coating seemed to block the boat's internal noise from getting out, and partially absorbed and partially dissipated sonar waves. Today, a new material is on the agenda, which is used to cover "Yaseni" and "Boreys". There is one difference - the entire boat hull is processed at the factory, and the monolithic coating looks more practical than tiles, which have at least microscopic cracks and can fall off under the action of water.

Say what you want, but I don't see such an advantage of the British (and American) boat over ours. Let some readers say that "the author extols Russian weapons and belittles the capabilities of the American", but you know, if the Americans themselves are skeptical about their F-22, then why should I think of where to praise them?

It's the same here. Our boats (American military publications write about this again) are no worse in terms of low noise. They are not inferior in speed, and in terms of depth they are much superior to both the Americans and the British.

The only weak point of our submarines is the torpedoes. I did not specifically focus on this, my colleagues Klimov and Timokhin have written more than enough (and more professionally) in the past. There is nothing to add, because there are no new torpedoes yet. And there is a possibility that in a one-on-one fight the American submarine will emerge victorious precisely because it has better quality torpedoes.

Next. Our "Caliber" and their "Tomahawk". More than enough has been said, these are missiles of the same class. Cruise and subsonic, which means they can be intercepted. "Topors" were shot down in Yugoslavia, shot down in Iraq, shot down in Syria. Not all of the "Calibers" in Ukraine reached their targets either, but here the very concept of a subsonic missile is such that it is slow. And therefore it can be shot down, especially by a decent complex. Defense.

But "Onyx" is a trump card that is not taken yet. And there is nothing to talk about here either, because so far no one can boast of having shot down this missile.


And here is almost parity, it is clear that during interception British and American boats will be stronger, but a torpedo is not such a big problem, to improve and release in the required quantities UGST "Physician-2" (or it is also called "Case") - and there is no problem at all. Moreover, according to theoretical data "Physician-2" is not inferior to Mk.48.

But the US and Britain don't have Onyx, and there's no sign of it. At all. We've been messing around with Case for 20 years, but there seems to be a chance.

So what? So what – pure marketing. Well, no one is stopping you from saying that your product is the best in the world. The best in the world among non-combat combat aircraft F-22 and F-35, the best non-combat Tanks Type 10 and T-14, the best modern aircraft carriers "Prince of Wales" and "Queen Elizabeth"... And if you add the super-destroyers "Poseidon" and "Burevestnik", which have no analogues in the world, then you get a picture of the whole world.

So, you can say everything. And that the Astute are the nuclear submarines of dreams. The best in NATO. To be fair, the British didn't say that they are the best in the world. Yes, they implied it, since NATO weapons are the best, but nevertheless.

Of course, you want to sell until you gnash your teeth. That's understandable. And what kind of sale without advertising? Of course, it's hard for British shipbuilding, especially against the backdrop of the near-fiasco with aircraft carriers, but you have to get out of the situation.

"Astyut" is a quite modern and good submarine. With a pretty decent set of weapons, although not the freshest, but tested in more than one conflict. Inferior in some parameters to American and Russian boats, but nevertheless, it is a really decent weapon.

But by no means the best.
57 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +13
    20 September 2024 07: 13
    Australia gives France a slap in the face by refusing to buy French nuclear submarines

    Australia planned to buy non-nuclear submarines from France
    On April 26, 2016, the Australian Department of Defence awarded the French consortium of DCNS (now Naval Group) and Thales the victory in the international tender for the construction of 12 large non-nuclear submarines for the Royal Australian Navy under the SEA 1000 (Future Submarine Program). The Australian Navy selected the Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A large submarine proposed by the DCNS and Thales consortium, which is essentially a non-nuclear version of the new-generation Barracuda nuclear multipurpose submarines being built by DCNS (Naval Group) for the French Navy.
    1. +2
      20 September 2024 20: 12
      Is this the same submarine where the nuclear reactor protection bolts were secured with glue? Then I agree - Russia definitely doesn't have such an analogue! And I hope it won't!
  2. -14
    20 September 2024 07: 25
    The impudent ones hope that they are doing, can do, something cosmic wink laughing
    And if you look at them more closely... "they can't catch crocodiles and they get hit in the head with coconuts more often than others"!
  3. -8
    20 September 2024 07: 26
    Well, creating a torpedo is not as difficult as creating a boat. And we produce boats and design new ones, let's look at the next generation.
    1. 0
      24 September 2024 11: 51
      Vadim, is it so easy that we have a huge problem with this? And with Lasta.
  4. +10
    20 September 2024 07: 27
    It is very difficult to call Spearfish a new weapon: the development dates back to the 70s, the first torpedoes were produced in 1992, deliveries ended in 2003. How many torpedoes were produced is not disclosed.

    Spearfish Mod1 is a deeply modernized version that entered service in 2014; by 2021, almost all UK nuclear-powered ships are equipped with them.
  5. +18
    20 September 2024 07: 51
    description of Yasen, leaves a dual impression.. on the one hand the author writes - everything is cool, and on the other - the main purpose of Yasen is to fight enemy submarines, and not to launch cruise missiles, i.e. torpedo warfare.. about which Roman writes "in a one-on-one fight, the American submarine will emerge victorious precisely due to the fact that it has higher-quality torpedoes"... total: comparison of all the above-mentioned boats hunters-looks sad...
    1. +5
      20 September 2024 12: 09
      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
      The main purpose of the Yasen is to combat enemy submarines, not to launch cruise missiles

      Quite the opposite. In fact, it is more of a SSGN than a multi-purpose SSN.
      1. +2
        20 September 2024 22: 42
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In fact, it is more of a SSGN than a multi-purpose SSN.

        by the fact- yes.. but not because of the idea but because of the weakness of the torpedoes.. and the SSGN is more like 949am... according to the idea.. and 885 is a replacement for 971.. in theory.. not in fact.. otherwise we don’t have a replacement for 971..
        1. +6
          21 September 2024 07: 53
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          in fact, yes.. but not because of the idea but because of the weakness of the torpedoes.. and the SSGN is more like the 949... in concept.. and the 885 is a replacement for the 971.. in theory..

          In general, it was like this - in the USSR there were PLAT (971) and SSGN (949) and so they decided to combine them into one type of submarine, so as not to suffer from diversity. The result was 885.
          But in fact, this is a very controversial decision, because, in a good way, a large reserve of cruise missiles is simply not needed to perform a number of tasks and Yasen is redundant for them, and on the other hand, the ship turned out to be expensive. The Navy puts Yasen in anti-aircraft carrier divisions, which previously included SSGNs
        2. 0
          21 September 2024 09: 59
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          In fact, it is more of a SSGN than a multi-purpose SSN.

          by the fact- yes.. but not because of the idea but because of the weakness of the torpedoes.. and the SSGN is more like 949am... according to the idea.. and 885 is a replacement for 971.. in theory.. not in fact.. otherwise we don’t have a replacement for 971..


          What about the Khabarovsk submarine of project 09851? It is supposed to become a replacement for project 971.
        3. +1
          21 September 2024 18: 19
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          otherwise we don't have shift 971..

          That's exactly how it turns out. The late USSR had a project for a light submarine with a liquid metal reactor - larger than the "Lira", but one and a half times lighter than Project 971. The "Yasen" project is a classic SSGN as a carrier of "Onyx" in UVP, and the SSBN/SBN "Borey", which was originally planned to be armed with 12 heavy SLBM "Bark". This trinity was supposed to start replacing the previous generation of SSNs in the 90s.
          They rejected the idea of ​​a light submarine with liquid-propellant missiles, because it was complicated and the USSR did not have time to prepare a reactor/power plant for it. They decided that the Yasen would be both a submarine and a nuclear-powered submarine... but it turned out to be twice as expensive as the Borey!! Now it is much more promising to use the Borey-K (80 Onyx/Tsirkon or 112 Kalibr) as a nuclear-powered submarine - it will be 2 times cheaper and at the same time 2,5 times more missiles in a salvo. Total efficiency of investments = 5 - 5 times more efficient than investments in the construction of the Yasen-M.
          But the prospects for the MAPL are not encouraging - we need an inexpensive but mass-produced MAPL VI 6000 - 7000 t, the cost of which in procurement will be about 70-80% of the cost of the Borey-A. We need at least 24 such MAPLs.
          For now, the overhaul and modernization of Project 971 and 945 submarines is helping out; they haven't exhausted their service life too much and can still serve after modernization... until they come up with a replacement for them. In addition, after modernization, Project 949, 971 and 945 will become carriers of 12 heavy and very long-range Kalibr-M cruise missiles with a caliber of 650 mm. - for firing from "large" 650 mm TA. All these submarines will now carry 12 heavy BD cruise missiles and 28 torpedoes\ASGMs\AKM "Kalibr" with a supersonic warhead of caliber 533 mm.
          If the Lada on the LIAB lives up to expectations (and so far it seems to be heading that way), such submarines will be able to partially compensate for the shortage of MAPS in our Navy.
      2. +2
        21 September 2024 11: 51
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In fact, it is more of a SSGN than a multi-purpose SSN.

        Project 885 was developed according to the concept of a "universal" platform with a large modernization reserve. This was a requirement of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces: that it must work on the BC. The sailors took care of the MC and submarines. That's how Yasen was created. They continue to torment it. They have already installed Tsirkons. All that remains is a small matter: to develop a light SLBM and stick it into the VPU/SHPU. (Joke) bully
  6. -2
    20 September 2024 08: 08
    The author is a bit confused. The Ossies were not going to buy the "Estute". They want a promising boat, which the British are developing on the basis of the "Estute", but the question is when this boat will be. Even the imam in the London mosque does not know this. The author "slightly" overestimated the performance characteristics of the "Spearfish", somewhere around two times)))
    1. +11
      20 September 2024 10: 56
      The author is being disingenuous, not seeing the advantages. "Estiute" is the smallest boat, half the displacement of "Yasen" and thus significantly more stealthy, since in addition to noise characteristics, the boat's stealth is also affected by its hydrological stealth in terms of water mass shifts, and magnetic and gravitational components. And the electronics are at a high level.
      1. +4
        20 September 2024 11: 15
        Well, not twice - less. But the main difference is that all "estuaries" are in bases and rarely go to sea))) the last of the "Trafalgars", "Triumphant", worked hard for the last few years, like a damned man, for everyone, but it looks like that's it. Came to Devonport, apparently - for good.
      2. AAK
        +2
        20 September 2024 11: 18
        Indeed, the "Yasen" is twice as "thick" as the "Estute", and there is also the French "Barracuda"/"Suffren", whose contrast in weight and dimensions is even more not in our favor. And in addition to compactness, this is also lower visibility in all fields, and better characteristics in terms of dive/surface speed and horizontal/vertical maneuverability, and maximum low-noise speed, and most importantly - in terms of maximum target detection range and maximum range of use of primarily torpedo weapons ... and our "Husky"/"Laika" and "Kalina" with VNEU - only in pictures ... and the worst thing is that there are 3-4 "Virginia" for 1 "Yasen", not counting other types of NATO submarines
        1. +4
          20 September 2024 12: 11
          Quote: AAK
          in addition to compactness, it is also less visible in all fields, and has better characteristics in terms of dive/emergence speed and horizontal/vertical maneuverability

          Not necessarily at all
      3. +4
        20 September 2024 12: 10
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        "Estiut" is the smallest boat, half the displacement of "Yasen" and therefore much more stealthy

        We had the most secretive monsters in the USSR 941
        1. AAK
          -1
          20 September 2024 12: 12
          Dear Andrey, isn't it the 945th in terms of stealth?
          1. +2
            20 September 2024 15: 26
            I can't know for sure, but from what I heard, it was exactly 941.
            1. +1
              21 September 2024 06: 50
              The SSBN of project 941 is the largest submarine "Akula", and the submarine of project 945 is a boat with a titanium hull "Barracuda".
              1. +2
                21 September 2024 07: 48
                Quote: Sergey39
                SSBN pr. 941 is the largest submarine "Akula"

                Thank you, captain:)))) That's exactly what I'm talking about hi
        2. +1
          21 September 2024 11: 44
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          "Estiut" is the smallest boat, half the displacement of "Yasen" and therefore much more stealthy

          We had the most secretive monsters in the USSR 941

          Andrew, hi
          You are absolutely right: 941 were the quietest of their time, and they were our first 4th generation boats. They served under the ice of the Arctic Ocean, went 4-8 knots, so they did not make much noise.
  7. +7
    20 September 2024 08: 56
    If you don't praise yourself, no one will. But you really want to hear praise.
  8. +4
    20 September 2024 09: 20
    Yasen is a good submarine, even surpassing the submarines of a potential enemy in terms of performance characteristics, but our sadness and sorrow with torpedoes
    ruins the whole picture.
  9. +10
    20 September 2024 09: 35
    And again a blooper about Shkval.
    Noisy and short-range.
    Well, accept it already. This is a self-defense torpedo.
    The strategist prepares to shoot. The depth is 30-40 meters. The shafts are open. The noise is such that the herring turns gray.
    And in order to have time to shoot back, a rocket torpedo is needed.
    The hunter hanging on the tail unmasks itself and Shkval goes in its direction. As an anti-torpedo. With a special warhead. That's all.
    Both the depth and range are such that enemy torpedoes can be intercepted.
    Why multiply journalistic stupidity by going from one extreme to another with this unique and very peculiar weapon.
    1. -5
      20 September 2024 15: 06
      garri-lin (shooter) about Shkval Strategist is preparing to fire. Depth is 30-40 meters. The mines are open. And in order to have time to fire back, a rocket torpedo is needed.


      What nonsense!
      What author-->author-->author, that (shooter), mentioning the VA-111 Shval, when discussing the naval topic, is a complete bad manners, shameful!
      1. +3
        20 September 2024 15: 47
        Do you have any information and can you substantiate your statement?
      2. 0
        21 September 2024 10: 49
        Quote: Subtext
        mentioning the VA-111 Shval when discussing the naval theme is a complete bad manners, shameful!

        Well, don't say that. If it was "nonsense", strategists wouldn't get 2 batons per snout when going into autonomous mode. Maybe as an anti-submarine weapon it's crap, but for breaking through the PLO formation (when you're cornered like a rat) - believe me, it'll be just the thing!
  10. +1
    20 September 2024 10: 27
    The fact that sworn friends advertise theirs as wunderwaffe is, of course, a fair share of marketing. After all, that's what advertising is. And it's the same with everyone - marketing is one thing, but when it comes to the proving ground, it's all nuances. As in the article above, actually.
    Let me start by saying that despite the fact that Yaseni may be better, they are not in the cards for Australia or anyone else, even if they really wanted to. And even if they were, theoretically, the volume of their production is not exactly shocking in its pace. Especially against the backdrop of their sworn friends.
    I would also like to share the author's optimism about the case and other physicists, but following the topic, you begin to doubt very much that "it is not such a big problem to finish and release the UGST "Physicist-2" in the required quantities". Sometimes it even seems that this is possible only with the help of aliens.
    Furthermore, the presence of a relatively modern torpedo is not equal to the ability to use it successfully. With the amount of practical firing that we have in the submarine fleet, I am afraid that even the presence of parity in torpedo armament will not mean parity in a "one-on-one meeting". This personally makes my hair stand on end in the most indecent places, because a submarine only needs one tablet to lose its combat capability, which is something that they cannot fail to understand in the depths of our Navy, while seeing the constant work of sworn enemies in this aspect and allowing such a lag in this component of destruction. Especially against the background, let's say diplomatically, of some inadequacy of other (surface) means of detecting and destroying enemy submarines.
  11. +5
    20 September 2024 10: 33
    The system consists of an integrated suite of active and passive equipment, including bow, stern, side and towed sensor arrays.

    The hydroacoustic system consists of the following equipment:
    - obstacle detection sonar type 2077;
    - oceanographic sonar type 2094;
    - active-passive bow sonar type 2079;
    - bow fire control system type 2078;
    - towed antenna type 2065.

    All this wealth works for the Astute combat control system, developed specifically for this boat.


    The main advantage of British and American submarines is not torpedoes and missiles, but automated combat control systems, like the Aegis on the Arleigh Burkes.
    Unfortunately, without such systems, neither the ship nor the submarines operate as a single organism in a single information field, receiving information from all sensors and sonars of the submarine, from surface ships, from patrol and anti-submarine aircraft, from the satellite group...

    If Russia has its own Aegis and Astute, then good, if not, we are hopelessly behind....
  12. +2
    20 September 2024 10: 54
    How are we doing with anti-torpedoes? They wrote that everything is bad and strategists don't have any at all.
    And so, drop by drop-
    NATO torpedoes are better, have a longer range and a better guidance system.
    The detection range is greater - a NATO submarine can attack without being detected
    Defense system can destroy or deflect torpedo fired at NATO submarine
    As a result, our boats have no chance at all.
  13. -1
    20 September 2024 11: 39
    We are behind in torpedoes, ahead in missiles. It is related to the tasks. Our boats need to kill aircraft carrier groups and cruisers/destroyers of the striped ones, and these are missiles, and their task is to mow down our submarine strategists, and these are torpedoes. Each to his own. I think that Yasen is a real pain in the ass for the striped ones, especially since there are 12 of them in the series - it will not seem like a few. The fact that the Australians were ordered to replace the French diesel-electric submarines with striped nuclear ones - I see Chinese and Russian factors here, it is difficult to go far in diesel-electric submarines.
  14. +6
    20 September 2024 13: 12
    Among the best submarines, the American Virginia and our Yasen M are compared, not the Yasen. All other boats have worse performance characteristics. Our modernized boat, which is the only one built in Severodvinsk, differs from the first submarine in its smaller dimensions, it is 9 m shorter. And naturally, it has a smaller displacement. The standard displacement of the Virginia is 7800 tons with a length of 115 m. Width 11 m., "Yasen" 8600 tons with a length of 139 m, width 13 m. ("Yasen-M" is 130 m long, and displacement data is not provided.) All these differences in displacement and dimensions are due to the fact that the Virginia is a single-hull boat, and the Yasen-M is a one-and-a-half-hull boat. The crew of the American boat is almost twice as large as ours, so our boat is more automated. The Yasen M has more weapons. The author was mistaken, with the Oniks cruise missiles, there are not three, but four missiles*4. 8 Kalibrs*5. The Fizik-8/Futlyar torpedo was accepted into service in 2.
    1. +5
      21 September 2024 11: 39
      Quote: Sergey39
      Among the best APLs, the American "Virginia" and our "Yasen M" are compared...
      Actually, they always compared it to the Wolf, but because of the cost of the American wonder weapon, they decided that it would be more correct to compare it to the Virgin, and the fifth series at that, which is also quite prestigious. That's just a remark on the matter. However, colleague, allow me to put in my two cents into your very professional post.
      1. Yasen has, among other things, a VSK designed for the entire crew. Komsomolets used it from a depth of more than 1 km. Not everyone, but Mr. Slyusarev still survived and was able to tell something that no one from the Bobby crew would ever have done...
      2. Whatever one may say, but the survivability reserve of our submarines is approximately twice as high as that of imported ones, and the submarines themselves have more watertight compartments. And they are designed to stay afloat when one compartment is FLOODED (they must float from a depth of 100 m when ANY compartment is flooded!) Which is clearly not the case with Anglo-Saxon submarines. One could object: back pressure in the compartment, eardrums and barotrauma of the lungs - like a runny nose with consumption! - they will do this without thinking... All this is true, BUT!!! It is good when the "hole" is below, well, on the side, but not FROM ABOVE! If from above, then you are going to visit the crew of the Thresher...
      3. Our units carry not only torpedoes, but also ROCKET-torpedoes (!) And these are completely different ranges and time to make a decision to evade a torpedo salvo. I have not heard that the enemy's BC included Sabroks...
      4. Strategists have fins, 6 pcs., outside the PC. Good or bad, but they say that they still save from 3 double-torpedo attacks. Surely something similar, of a caliber for DUKS (40-60-80 mm) will soon appear on our latest series of ASRKs.
      5. About torpedoes. A boat-boat at low speeds can hear them well at 20 km, unless, of course, you use the low-frequency tract of the sonar. And here the speed of the thermal torpedoes is not very important. What is important here is that your salvo is quieter than the enemy's. That is why the Volk had 650 mm TA with a grid, from which the torpedoes were "fired" by self-exit. We have electric torpedoes, they are quieter than thermal ones. They work on ASW. And our anti-ship missiles specialize in NK, receiving targeting instructions from their own sources of information carrier.
      There are a couple more nuances, but it’s better to keep quiet about them for now.
      Sincerely, Boa. hi
    2. -1
      22 September 2024 20: 27
      In fact, there is no physics in service, read Klimov
      1. 0
        29 October 2024 06: 31
        An unsubstantiated or unwritten statement, nothing more
  15. -2
    20 September 2024 13: 24
    What is Australia? A small continent or a super island. Why do they climb up our ass without soap? Attracting nuclear strikes. When attacking, China still needs to find Australians, how many are there, 20 million?
    You can not let immigrants in, but trade with the whole world. Yes, some people give up sovereignty, but Australia would benefit from it, as well as New Zealand, what do they lack at the end of the world?
    1. +2
      20 September 2024 15: 06
      Quote: V.
      Why do they climb into the ass without soap? Attracting nuclear strikes. When attacking, China still needs to find Australians, how many are there, 20 million?

      Formally, Australia is still ruled by the King of Great Britain and the Governor-General. And not so long ago, not formally, but in reality... In addition, if you look more closely at who owns all the largest businesses in Australia, you can see the nose and ears of the British behind almost every company. So I would not rush to assert "Australian independence"...
  16. -1
    20 September 2024 16: 04
    Everyone has a show-off, we also like to do everything in a way that has no analogues in the world laughing
  17. 0
    20 September 2024 17: 19
    Why do the British have such ugly technology, all of it?
    1. 0
      21 September 2024 10: 59
      Quote: dnestr74
      Why do the British have such ugly technology, all of it?

      It's simple: what's in the brain is what's on the drawing board! They are, damn it, "artists", they SEE THAT WAY!!! wassat
  18. +4
    20 September 2024 17: 40
    A wonderful, voluminous article, filled with many interesting technical nuances, Roman Skoromohov is probably the only generalist author on VO who is equally well versed in both aviation and marine topics.
  19. 0
    20 September 2024 18: 40
    Ours has the largest difference between underwater and surface displacement.
    1. -1
      21 September 2024 06: 56
      Our underwater displacement is always greater. They build single-hull boats, we build double-hull or, like the Yasen-M, one-and-a-half-hull boats. The space between the hulls is filled with water when submerged. For this reason, our boats are more stable at depth and have a greater working and maximum diving depth.
      1. +1
        21 September 2024 09: 47
        How does having a lightweight body increase diving depth if it is not sealed?
      2. +1
        21 September 2024 09: 51
        So these five thousand tons of water in the interhull space need to be both accelerated and slowed down. Which increases the boat's inertia, no?
  20. +1
    21 September 2024 11: 27
    It is necessary to understand that everyone has the same technological level of development. The spread in individual parameters does not determine the key advantage. In one phrase it is possible to designate that everyone is in the space of one scale of intellectual and engineering level of solutions. Therefore it is worth highlighting the key determining factors - everyone uses the same technologies and devices for converting energy of continuous media or movers and this is in all other target devices. Everyone has one level of energy density of basic electronic elements in the power and electronic part of the equipment. Everyone has binary logic of machine data processing, and therefore one level of work with information. In general, there are ideas. In addition, in the issue of direct conversion of potential or nuclear energy contained in matter into an electromagnetic pulse and current.
  21. 0
    21 September 2024 12: 01
    Ash has only 533 mm devices. 4 onyx in the shaft and a lot of other things.
  22. -1
    21 September 2024 13: 06
    "Astyut" is a quite modern and good submarine. With a pretty decent set of weapons, albeit not the freshest, but tested by more than one conflict.

    The author clearly got carried away! Astute has never (!) used its weapons in recent armed conflicts. Moreover, in 2018, having received an order from the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Theresa May to use 20 Tomahawk cruise missiles on a battle center in the Syrian Arab Republic, the submarine Astute was unable to break away from the surveillance of the Russian submarine force (5th operational unit of the Russian Navy in the Middle Sea) and carry out the firing. Two submarines of the pr 636.3 class tormented the NUCLEAR-POWERED Englishwoman to such an extent that she refused to CARRY OUT THE ORDER to attack the battle center in the Syrian Arab Republic!
    For this kind of thing we put people on trial.
    The PLA Conqueron (Trafalgar) took part in the Anglo-Argentine conflict, sinking the Argentine cruiser Gen. Belgrano on 2.05.1882 May XNUMX:
    At 20.00:16.00 London time (1400:7 local time) the Conqueror, from a distance of only XNUMX yards (XNUMX cables), launched a fan of three ancient straight-running torpedoes Mk8 model 1927. Two torpedoes hit the cruiser at 20.01:127 - one in the stern under the stern post of the UAO 90-mm AU, in the area of ​​the stern MO, creating a hole of 15 square meters (!), the second in the bow in front of the first turret, as a result the entire bow (234 m) was torn off to the bow armor beam (it is funny that in its long career the cruiser lost its bow for the third time). The third torpedo, on its way out, hit the destroyer "Ipolito Buchar", which was sailing far behind the cruiser, but did not explode. The fatal hit was in the stern of the cruiser, where 4 people died immediately in the living quarters and in the MO, the MO and KO began to quickly flood, already 15 minutes after the hit the list reached 10 degrees on the left side, after another 19 minutes already 20.21 degrees, then the list began to accelerate sharply, and at 20 London time (40 minutes after the hit) with a list of 323 degrees, the commander of the Belgrano Hector Bonzo ordered to abandon the ship. The fight for survivability was practically not carried out, since the personnel immediately after the hits began to leave the premises on the lower decks. Soon the Belgrano sank. A total of XNUMX people died.
  23. 0
    22 September 2024 01: 54
    If there was no rivalry and marketing at the present time, then which Premier League teams would share first/second place?
    Without those characteristics, without taking into account the cost.
    And without patriotism.
    Ours? American? English? French? Maybe Chinese or Japanese?
    Precisely as finished products.
  24. 0
    23 September 2024 20: 10
    I never tire of repeating that the only measure of everything is experience. For such "objects" - operational experience and combat experience of their use... Everything else is "idle talk" and advertising "moves"... The submarine "Astute" will sail the seas and oceans, "will show itself" in action, in a year or two it makes sense to remember this "wunderwaffe", based on statistics that will be available to us... But for now, all words, words and advertising "moves"... True, some models of weapons, the British, were and are not bad, this, it can be noted...
  25. 0
    24 September 2024 15: 59
    Summary of the article: the Australians screwed up. They should have bought Ash, which is bigger and dives deeper. "And really, really, really, really" (Oleg Mityaev).
  26. 0
    29 September 2024 18: 30
    Why does everyone write that "Shkval" is incredibly noisy? The creators of the rocket-torpedo told how they were afraid of the noise of the jet engine in the water, but the first tests disproved this. They managed to overcome the noise from the vibration of the hull.
  27. 0
    9 October 2024 20: 01
    Astute submarine: "Neither the US nor Russia has anything like this"

    Yeah, no one else has such crap as British submarines with reactors, in which the cut off bolt heads are put on with glue, it seems...
  28. 0
    29 October 2024 06: 34
    The fact that torpedoes on Russian submarines are the worst in the world - continue to think so, very good!) otherwise it's a real find for spies and not a site))) only the media are worse