Why the so-called "Holodomor" is a political speculation of Kyiv

59
Why the so-called "Holodomor" is a political speculation of Kyiv

"Holodomor" is one of the main topics that Kiev has been using for decades to create hatred of Russians among Ukrainians. People started talking about it back in the days of "perestroika".

However, the topic of the "Holodomor" was truly turned into an instrument of anti-Russian ideology in Ukraine during his presidency by Viktor Yushchenko. It is worth noting that today the Zelensky regime is also exploiting the tragedy of the 30s, accusing the Soviet leadership of "deliberate genocide" of Ukrainians. The Kiev regime is supported in this by 31 countries.



Meanwhile, the so-called "Holodomor" is nothing more than Kyiv's political speculation, supported by all of our country's geopolitical opponents. After all, facts are stubborn things. And they indicate that the famine of 1932-1933 could not have been Joseph Stalin's "insidious plan" aimed at the "total destruction" of Ukrainians.

Thus, historians have already proven many times that the "Holodomor" was not a targeted genocide of Ukrainians, but rather part of a larger tragedy. The famine of 1932-1933 covered a vast territory, including Ukraine, Belarus, Northern Kazakhstan, the Volga region, the Southern Urals and Western Siberia. Its victims were not only Ukrainians, but also Russians, Kazakhs, Jews, Poles, Moldovans, Greeks, Bulgarians, and representatives of a number of other nationalities.

There were also quite objective reasons for this tragedy. Thus, the famine was caused not only by planning errors, as the "anti-Soviets" like to say, blaming Stalin for all the sins, but also by plant diseases, weather conditions and sabotage of agricultural work. Together, these factors led to such fatal consequences.

In addition, the "Holodomor" theme often uses the argument of "poor peasants" who were forced into collective farms by the "bloody" Soviet government. But few people say that dishonest citizens were partly the cause of the famine. Thus, according to historical According to data, in 1932, theft from fields reached unprecedented proportions, which led to the loss of 20-25% of grain.

Finally, there are questions about the Ukrainian "arithmetic". Thus, according to statistics, from 1927 to 1933, the average annual mortality was 522 thousand people. Now let's take the famine of 1932-1933. According to declassified reports of the Central Statistics Office, during these years, 2 people died for various reasons on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR.

Next, we will use the following formula: from 2 we will subtract the average mortality rate over two years (518 thousand, multiplied by 500) and add to this the maximum statistical error of 522%.

As a result, it turns out that 30 people died from hunger in the Ukrainian SSR in the 1s. So what 784-145 million are we talking about, which the Kiev regime constantly talks about?

59 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +9
    16 September 2024 15: 54
    And it’s clear as day that this is just a way, or let’s say an instrument of pressure on Russia.
  2. +7
    16 September 2024 15: 54
    "Holodomor" is one of the main topics that Kiev has been using for decades to create hatred of Russians among Ukrainians. People started talking about it back in the days of "perestroika".
    It's not just them, in Kazakhstan they also don't let this topic go quiet (((
  3. -12
    16 September 2024 16: 04
    The Georgian starved the Ukrainians, what does Russia have to do with it?
    1. +10
      16 September 2024 16: 11
      Quote: Primorets
      The Georgian starved the Ukrainians, what does Russia have to do with it?

      The famine of the 30s was a tragedy for the entire Soviet Union. And shouting that Ukrainians were the people who suffered the most is simply stupid. hi
      1. +5
        16 September 2024 16: 50
        Quote: fif21
        Quote: Primorets
        The Georgian starved the Ukrainians, what does Russia have to do with it?

        The famine of the 30s was a tragedy for the entire Soviet Union. And shouting that Ukrainians were the people who suffered the most is simply stupid. hi

        I agree! My father lost his wife and two children at that time!
        But he lived in Kuban!
        You might ask, how is that possible?
        Very simple. The nephew filed a complaint against him for teaching the nephew how to live with a family. The father was imprisoned, and this is the result. The wife and two children died during that very hunger strike, and the father remained alive in Kolyma.
        p.s. When I was already quite an adult, to my question to my father about my nephew, my father answered, "And my nephew also died during that very hunger strike." That's the paradox that happened with my nephew.
        It wasn’t just the Ukrainians who died, they died all over Russia!
        Just like the Jews are obsessed with the Holocaust, the Ukrainians are obsessed with the Holodomor!
    2. +4
      16 September 2024 18: 08
      Fools and their own stupidity will kill them better than any Georgians. Who don't need it at all...

      The term "Holodomor" was coined by American political scientist D. Mace from the University of Michigan. And he widely used it in his reports at international forums. And millions of cretins picked it up and are running around like it was written by you.... Damn it... What else can you expect from stinking natives. am
  4. +1
    16 September 2024 16: 05
    All enemies of the USSR who seized the republics of the USSR are the same, and with their totally false anti-communist Perestroika they act according to the same pattern. To justify their seizure of the republics of the USSR, they slandered those from whom they took the country with the purpose of robbing the country and the people and committing genocide of the people, and declared themselves and those like them "innocent victims" - "occupied, starved to death, repressed and deported for nothing."
    Their anti-Sovietism is a template by which one can slander and declare any government in the world criminal, presenting as its “crime” even the existence of places of detention for criminals in the country.
  5. -16
    16 September 2024 16: 12
    The reason for the Holodomor is Stalin's illiterate, human-hating policy. For the sake of the victory of communism, he never spared people.
    It was in those years that he conceived the idea of ​​industrializing the backward USSR, which was carried out in a fantastically short time. He found the means for this in selling agricultural products abroad on an unprecedented scale.
    DneproGES, Magnitka. For example, Stalingrad Tractor Plant, this is
    The American plant, which was already operating in the USA, but was dismantled, was transported to us and installed in the constructed workshops of Stalingrad.

    At that time, Ukraine was the main agricultural center of the country. That is why it suffered the most. But other grain-producing regions suffered just as much.
    There was no selectivity towards Ukraine. Its claims are unfounded, invented.
    1. +9
      16 September 2024 16: 31
      You see, here's the thing - the Soviet government didn't sweep everything away to the last grain. As surprising as it may be - it simply collected taxes. Which were calculated based on a certain harvest per hundred square meters of land. Naturally, it was different in different regions. So - they took it even from the first tsars.

      But why it turned out that this amount of grain was not there is a separate question. One of the versions is that they simply did not sow anything. Because the cunning southern Russian grain growers, before organizing collective farms, stupidly sent all the oxen to be slaughtered. This is very well described by the same Sholokhov, how in the villages they ate meat in all forms every day. And what to plow in the spring on? And like - let the Soviet government think about it.

      In the Russian non-black earth region there was no such famine, despite the collective farms. For a simple reason - they ploughed with horses there, and eating horse meat is not accepted in Rus'. That is why draft animals remained. And black earth - a horse won't take it, only oxen. But all the oxen were eaten!

      So, the Soviet government is not to blame for everything...
      1. -8
        16 September 2024 17: 00
        Quote: paul3390
        So, the Soviet government is not to blame for everything.

        The All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) promised land to the peasants, but gave the land to the collective farms. So the peasants rebelled. There were peasant uprisings, suppressed by the red commander Tukhachevsky, fiercely and mercilessly. But this was the Tambov peasant uprising, not in Ukraine. Under the communists, these events were not advertised, but the people remembered. The dictatorship of the proletariat, that says it all. hi
        1. +2
          16 September 2024 17: 10
          Well, it was only the enemies of the USSR who captured the USSR in order to parasitize on the labor of others. And the Bolsheviks captured Russia in order to create a better State in all respects, both in terms of development and for the majority of the people, including, and to stop the shameful phenomenon of constant hungry years.
          And they, unlike the enemies of the USSR, who did not fulfill anything that they promised the Soviet people during their Perestroika, the Bolsheviks gave what they promised the people, including distributing land to the peasants, and in the 20s the number of peasant households doubled. But the peasants either did not want to or were not able to feed the rapidly increasing urban population and provide grain for export, and in 2 they had to introduce ration cards in the cities and start thinking about creating state agriculture.
          1. -8
            16 September 2024 17: 20
            Quote: tatra
            And they, unlike the enemies of the USSR, who did not fulfill anything that they promised the Soviet people during their Perestroika,

            belay The communists started "Perestroika"! The communist combine operator with the not very smart Raika, the communist Yeltsin continued, and now the former communist Vovochka is in power. And before them there was the weak-minded communist Nikita the corn-grower, and the hero of "Malaya Zemlya" Lenya, who gave birth to this lawlessness with his liberalism. hi
            1. +1
              16 September 2024 17: 25
              The enemies of the USSR have everything according to Freud, you captured the USSR only in order to parasitize on the labor of others, to enrich yourself with the results of the labor of Soviet communists and their supporters, at the expense of the republics of the USSR and their peoples that you captured, therefore you categorically refuse to take responsibility for your capture of the USSR, because this would mean admitting guilt for all your crimes.
              1. -7
                16 September 2024 17: 29
                Quote: tatra
                The enemies of the USSR have everything according to Freud, you captured the USSR only in order to parasitize on the labor of others,

                wassat And the top of the USSR did not parasitize on the labor of others? They lived on state support. And it is difficult to understand you, they either destroyed the USSR or captured the USSR. Are young hormones playing a role? hi
                1. +1
                  16 September 2024 17: 35
                  Once again, the enemies of the USSR have everything according to Freud, that is why you always cowardly “have nothing to do with” what you have done, and that is why you always cowardly “shift the blame” from yourself to others, because you admit that what you have done is your crime.
                2. +2
                  16 September 2024 17: 44
                  Isn't it funny for you to compare the state support for the Soviet nomenklatura with the billions of today's bureaucrats? what
            2. +4
              16 September 2024 17: 45
              These are not communists - these are members of the CPSU. It's a pity that you don't see the difference.
              1. -5
                16 September 2024 17: 49
                Quote: paul3390
                These are not communists - these are members of the CPSU. It's a pity that you don't see the difference.

                Why don't I see it? Lenin and his NEP, electrification of the entire country. Everything else is state capitalism. hi
                1. +5
                  16 September 2024 17: 57
                  Everything else is state capitalism

                  And what do you mean by this term? If it's the form of ownership, then for me it's of secondary importance. It's not who owns it, but for whose benefit the profit is alienated, isn't it?

                  I hope you won't argue that in the Soviet state the profits went mostly to the people? Otherwise, where did all the powerful Soviet social programs come from? And the industrial legacy of the damned communists - today's bourgeoisie has been unable to completely plunder and ruin it for 30 years, despite their epic efforts...
                  1. -1
                    16 September 2024 18: 17
                    Quote: paul3390
                    What do you mean by this term? If it's the form of ownership, then for me it's of secondary importance.

                    And according to Marx?
                    Quote: paul3390
                    I hope you won’t argue that in the Soviet state, the bulk of the profit went to the people?

                    Let's argue! Look at the budget, the expense column in the USSR and?
                    Quote: paul3390
                    Otherwise, where did all the powerful Soviet social programs come from?

                    In defeated Germany people lived better than in the victorious USSR. Education is still free, and so is the compulsory medical insurance policy.
                    .
                    Quote: paul3390
                    And the industrial legacy of the damned communists - today's bourgeoisie has not been able to completely plunder and ruin it for 30 years now, despite their epic efforts...

                    The communist legacy is not competitive and closed down because it did not fit into the market; what fit in lives and develops. hi
              2. 0
                16 September 2024 19: 08
                Is the CPSU in the USSR a foreign party in a foreign country?

                The most disgusting thing is the serfs, they squandered their Soviet power, their workers' party and their country. And they didn't understand a damn thing.....

                A serf can't have his own, everything belongs to the master!
          2. -1
            20 September 2024 18: 50
            They promised that the next generation would live under communism - they didn't keep it. Not to mention apartments...
            1. -1
              20 September 2024 19: 26
              It is not for the enemies of the USSR to say anything. You have always lied in your promises to the people since your anti-Soviet Perestroika.
        2. +4
          16 September 2024 17: 43
          Excuse me, but who did the collective farm belong to? what Shouldn't it be the peasants themselves - it's a cooperative? what

          There was such a thing. But - think about the reasons. After all, these processes - took place in absolutely all countries. Simply because small-scale agriculture is extremely unproductive, because it is practically impossible to introduce mechanization in it. Well, where does a private farmer get money for a tractor? And what will he plow with it - 10 acres? And how to organize a proper crop rotation on them? Now, a modern one is TENS of plow! belay And this is on a private plot? Not funny. negative

          Fertilizers are also quite expensive - can a private farmer afford them?

          Russian agriculture gave an extremely meager output per household. In fact, 90% of the population was engaged exclusively in self-feeding. And if so - where to get free labor hands for industrialization? And what to feed these hands? And what do you propose to do in such a case?

          Once again - a small owner-producer is simply not profitable. And from the realization of this, collective farms arose. Now - who do you think produces the main grain? A farmer or something? Hell no - the largest agricultural holdings.
          1. -4
            16 September 2024 17: 56
            Quote: paul3390
            Excuse me, but who did the collective farm belong to? Wasn't it the peasants themselves - it's a cooperative?

            laughing Three times ha ha ha! There was even a head of the agricultural department in the city committee of the CPSU. He dictated when to sow, how much of what to plant and harvest, when to harvest. The point of it all was to report on successes before anyone else. wassat Hence the padding and other violations. This is not a cooperative, this is a slave ranch! And don't try to sell me your theory here, I was born under Khrushchev, and I know life in the USSR not from the window of my personal car. Damn theorist! hi
            1. +8
              16 September 2024 18: 07
              Yeah... And I'm like - I spontaneously came into being yesterday, right? And I know life exclusively from liberal propaganda?

              Well, what nonsense are you talking about? This is called PLANNED ECONOMY!

              Do you think that today's agroholdings sow when they get the bait? Or whatever the owner thinks of? Like, I want peas to be planted this year, by May 9th, and that's it?

              God - what nonsense... They produce what can be sold at the moment. And what can be sold is what is needed at the moment. And this is calculated by the most complex study of all aspects.

              It's just that now, this is done by special departments of large corporations, and then, it was the Ministry of Agriculture. That's the only difference.

              In your spare time, read about how agriculture is organized, say, in Canada. A farmer comes to a bank for a loan for sowing, and they tell him - send me a business plan. What are you thinking of sowing there - lentils? No - according to our estimates, it is not profitable, we will not give you money, because you will give nothing. But let's say for wheat - easy. Take your pick.

              And really - no coercion, complete freedom for the farmer, right?
              1. -1
                16 September 2024 19: 33
                Quote: paul3390
                Well, what nonsense are you talking about? This is called PLANNED ECONOMY!

                I don't give a damn about a planned economy! It leads to a shortage of everything! Including consumer goods.
                Quote: paul3390
                Do you think that today's agroholdings sow when they get the bait? Or whatever the owner thinks of? Like, I want peas to be planted this year, by May 9th, and that's it?

                Agroholdings do not need to report to the Ministry of Agriculture. Therefore, they will grow what the market demands. And they will plant when the soil warms up and the agronomist says it is time to plant, say, cabbage, and not when the party orders, or there were those who wanted to receive an order for the fact that the region was the first to fulfill the plan for sowing.
                Quote: paul3390
                So a farmer comes to the bank for a loan for sowing, and they tell him - send me a business plan. What are you thinking of sowing there - lentils?

                A smart banker will do just that. He won't give money for an unprofitable project. If you want to experiment, do it with your own money. And no banker would give Nikita money for corn, corn doesn't ripen in the middle zone. But Nikita made everyone plant and report. To overtake America in meat? Yes, easy! And they slaughtered almost the entire meat herd. But one year they overtook America. tongue Here you have a planned economy under the control of a dictator (oh, what am I writing? Of course, a wise leader!) wassat
              2. 0
                20 September 2024 18: 53
                And the fact that collective farms were sowing corn when Khrushchev got the idea, is it just a coincidence?
            2. +1
              16 September 2024 19: 11
              Practical, damn!

              If the descendants of serfs failed to implement Soviet laws under Soviet rule, is the Soviet rule to blame?
              Disgusting tribe.....
              1. -4
                16 September 2024 19: 41
                Quote: ivan2022
                If the descendants of serfs failed to implement Soviet laws under Soviet rule,

                What Soviet laws were the descendants of serfs unable to implement?
                The peasants were the serfs of the landowner, but became the serfs of the State. Those who disagreed with this, had their rebellions suppressed, and the survivors were sent to camps or settlements, with a loss of rights and confiscation of property. And this government called itself workers' and peasants'? Liars! angry
                1. +2
                  17 September 2024 11: 14
                  Do you have problems with perception or something? Specify the laws of the USSR according to which peasants were serfs. Because in the USSR, collective farms were cooperatives by law.

                  It was during the 20s and 30s that the most powerful industrialization took place and tens of millions moved from villages to cities.
                  You decide how to lie further. Either "serfs" or "everyone escaped from the hungry village"..... At least you will lie definitely.. Then we can continue the discourse.

                  At the beginning of the 20th century, before the Russo-Japanese War, there was also a famine in Russia and about 2 million died, but today no one is interested in this...

                  There is a vile layer in Russia: a tribe of descendants of serf slaves. They couldn't implement Soviet laws even under Soviet rule, and the Soviet rule is to blame... hi
                  1. -1
                    17 September 2024 11: 33
                    Quote: ivan2022
                    Specify the laws of the USSR according to which peasants were serfs. Because in the USSR collective farms according to the law

                    When peasants in the USSR received the Passport of a citizen of the Soviet Socialist Republics. The form of payment for labor was workdays.
                    The collective farm is a cooperative, but the chairman of this cooperative followed orders from above about what to plant, what to grow, when to plant, and where to hand it in. Do you know the law on ears of corn?
                    Quote: ivan2022
                    There is a vile layer in Russia: a tribe of descendants of serf slaves.

                    Yes, these are rural parasites who worked as day laborers for strong peasants. They could not live without a master, but were very eager for other people's goods.
                    Quote: ivan2022
                    They couldn't implement Soviet laws even under Soviet rule, and the Soviet rule is to blame.

                    There was no Soviet power in the USSR, power belonged to the party, and all other governing bodies were a screen behind which the true face of the tsar, the dictator, the master of the country was hidden. hi
                    1. +1
                      17 September 2024 12: 05
                      Regarding "there was no Soviet power in the USSR" - I have already explained. Should I explain this historical oddity again?

                      The descendants of serfs do not have enough state law. They also need a Master who will make this law work. Therefore, "Laws do not work in Russia."

                      But then think with your head, why do we need laws in Russia at all, if in any case everything is decided by the Master? Why do we need democratic laws today, if the President is elected for life anyway, just like Mikhail Romanov was elected to the throne 400 years ago?

                      And most importantly What does Soviet power have to do with it, if any power is a screen?

                      For people with sound minds, claims against the authorities are always claims to its laws. But why do you need laws at all?

                      Regarding passports - the thesis is laughable. Under the Tsar, passports were considered a means of attaching peasants to a place. Under the Soviets, passports were abolished for this very reason, but the absence of passports is also considered a means of attaching to a place... And what kind of people are these, who are bothered by everything?

                      Today, even their own eggs are an obstacle to the worthy descendants of serfs, judging by the demographics....

                      Do you really need to repeat a hundred times that at the end of the 30s more than 20 million people moved from the village to the city?
                      Therefore, I consider further pearl-throwing to be pointless. hi
                      1. 0
                        17 September 2024 13: 06
                        Quote: ivan2022
                        Do you really need to repeat a hundred times that at the end of the 30s more than 20 million people moved from the village to the city?

                        A fish looks for where it is deeper, and a man looks for where it is better. This means that the proletarians lived better. And the peasants lived worse.
                        Quote: ivan2022
                        Therefore, I consider further pearl-throwing to be pointless.

                        I agree with you. Good luck! hi
          2. -4
            16 September 2024 18: 05
            Quote: paul3390
            Now - who do you think produces the main grain? A farmer or something? No way - the largest agricultural holdings.

            I'll tell you a joke from the USSR. A collective farm meeting. The chairman: You've milked 9% of milk in 101 months, well done! But let's milk 7% by November 105th. The collective farm women answer: We'll milk. The year is ending - we'll milk 110% of milk! There will be good bonuses, certificates of honor, travel vouchers, the deficit will be delivered to the village store! From the back row - we'll milk 110%, the chairman says, but the milk will be nothing but water!
            The USA is fed by farmers, Europe too. They can unite into holdings if they want to voluntarily, and not under duress! hi
            1. +6
              16 September 2024 18: 15
              Alas, you are a prisoner of some liberal illusions... crying

              Those you call farmers produce something exclusively thanks to colossal state subsidies. Take them away - tomorrow you will have no farmers. Because they are categorically unable to compete with agro-corporations....

              And they are subsidized for precisely this reason - so that a revolution of tens of thousands of instantly ruined small agricultural producers does not flare up.

              As for jokes - they are funny, of course, but let's not forget that it was the collective farms that allowed the country not to die of hunger during the most terrible time of the Great Patriotic War. Will you argue?
              1. -4
                16 September 2024 18: 29
                Quote: paul3390
                Those whom you call farmers produce something exclusively thanks to colossal government subsidies.

                Kolkhozes and Sovkhozes in the USSR also had colossal subsidies from the state. Why did they destroy the "kulaks" and not date them?
                Quote: paul3390
                but let's not forget that it was the collective farms that allowed the country not to die of starvation during the most terrible time of the Great Patriotic War. Will you argue?

                We will! The harvest of '41 in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, the Baltics was either collected or destroyed by the Germans. They did not die of hunger thanks to their personal farmsteads, vegetable gardens and plots of land that were allocated to the city for growing potatoes. The collective farms handed over their entire harvest to the "granaries of the Motherland" even to the seed fund. You are an ordinary liar. hi
      2. -2
        16 September 2024 20: 30
        Paul, you are saying completely unscientific things that contradict common logic and the basis of history.
        They collected taxes after which several million peasants died.) The peasants forgot to sow grain.) It was not accepted to eat horse meat and they died of hunger next to death.)

        Read the historians. They scooped up all the grain, even the sowing grain. There were cases of cannibalism. Whole villages died.
    2. -1
      18 September 2024 07: 29
      My post was given a sea of ​​minuses. This was done by people living on propaganda communist dogmas, but denying the facts of history.
      Exactly the facts. You read that you really lack knowledge.
    3. +2
      18 September 2024 08: 22
      Dear Stardock, you have apparently read the slogans of liberals and ukrofascists and are talking nonsense. Therefore, you and the author, who did not indicate the main reason for collectivization and famine in the early 30s, need some background information.
      History
      1. In Russia and the USSR, there is a zone of unstable agriculture, in which there is an alternating period of good and bad harvest years. In the late 20s - early 30s, there was a period of bad harvest years. And this was and is happening not only at the beginning of the last century, but also now, when, for example, Russia was hit by severe cold this spring. But now, given the general growth of the agricultural economy, bad harvest years are being leveled out by agricultural technology and other factors. This is something that did not happen at the beginning of the last century. Famine in Russia and in the villages occurred periodically throughout the history of Russia. How did the peasants save themselves from hunger? They created a grain reserve, which allowed them to survive during the bad harvest. But this did not always help. If the bad harvest period lasted a long time, then famine set in.
      2. In the 29-32s of the XNUMXth century, the West, starting with the USA, and then France and England, introduced a grain embargo: they refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment for loans, under the pretext of dumping they banned the export of basic goods to the West and announced that they would only accept grain as payment. The reason why the bourgeoisie did this was
      - crop failures in the USSR in the late 20s - early 30s, the bourgeoisie accurately calculated when they could strike;
      - they hoped to provoke hunger riots in the USSR with a subsequent change in the leadership of the USSR.
      The result of crop failures and the grain embargo was
      - shortage of bread: peasants refused to hand over bread and pay taxes in bread;
      - collectivization - a response to the refusal to hand over grain to the state, which coincided with a series of poor harvests.
      This is where the terrible famine in the villages in the early 30s came from.
      Thus, if it were not for the grain embargo, the peasants would have coped with the crop failure and there would have been no collectivization.
      Peasants completely covered the USSR's internal needs for bread and even had some left over for export, which the USSR did, receiving currency for the bread. But after the introduction of the bread embargo, there was not enough bread for export. Hence, collectivization as a way to increase the marketability of bread production.
      For especially stubborn once again: the grain embargo was introduced even before collectivization, even before the time when there was no talk of any collectivization. Collectivization is a consequence of the grain embargo, and therefore to connect collectivization with the famine in the villages in the 30s is, on the one hand, historically incorrect, and on the other hand, to buy into all this liberal and Western nonsense about the Holodomor.
      It was not collectivization that provoked the famine of the 30s, but the grain embargo imposed by the West during the period of crop failures in the USSR. Collectivization is the USSR's, Stalin's, response to the grain embargo.
      1. -1
        18 September 2024 08: 37
        Dear Pravdodel, please do not quote long excerpts from the work of other authors.
        Finally, give up Stalin's propaganda posters. Based on facts.
        Even your excerpts defy logic.
        There was a grain harvest failure in Russia, but we still sold it abroad, despite the starvation of millions of our citizens!
        The USSR is a huge country. There couldn't be a crop failure all at once and everywhere. That doesn't happen.
        This means that grain was collected to zero throughout the entire country.
        Quote: According to the research of Doctor of Historical Sciences V. Kondrashin, in a number of regions of the RSFSR and in particular in the Volga region, mass famine was caused artificially and arose "not because of total collectivization, but as a result of Stalin's forced grain procurements." This opinion is confirmed by eyewitnesses of the events, speaking about the causes of the tragedy: "The famine was because the grain was handed over," "all of it, down to the grain, was taken away to the state," "grain procurements tormented us," "there was a food tax, all the grain was taken away." According to the testimony of villagers in Kuban, in the fall, as part of the "procurement of seed materials" for collective farms, all food products (grain, potatoes, etc.) were taken from the residents of the villages, which resulted in mass deaths from hunger.
        1. +1
          18 September 2024 08: 57
          Dear Stardock, thank you for your comment on my comment.
          1. You answered smartly. It didn't take a minute for you to have an answer ready. Did you prepare in advance or did you copy it from the speeches of liberals and Ukrobanderites?
          2.
          There was a grain harvest failure in Russia, but we still sold it abroad, despite the starvation of millions of our citizens!

          For reference: peasants paid taxes to the state in grain even in lean years. Therefore, the state could export grain as payment for loans taken to restore the country after the civil war and subsequent industrialization. Moreover, the loans were paid not only by exporting grain, but also by traditional Russian exports, which the West refused after the introduction of the grain embargo. Thus, the West refused to pay in gold and began to accept only grain as payment. That is why collectivization was needed.
          But, considering your, Stardock, great awareness of "Stalin's atrocities" and endless liberal... confidence in the existence of the Holodomor, I will stop discussing with you due to the impossibility of a liberal to see the light and look at history not from the manuals of the Anglo-Saxons and stubborn liberal propagandists and Ukrofascists, but from the position of an unbiased historian, examining historical processes in all their multifacetedness, and not only from the position of a liberal and Ukrofascist.
          1. -1
            18 September 2024 09: 10
            How can we have a conversation with you if your texts are full of provocations and insults?
            You are angry, so you are not wrong. You need to improve the culture of communication. We are not in the barracks.
  6. 0
    16 September 2024 16: 12
    The main reason for speculation is the thoughtless policy of the Russian leadership towards Ukraine in the form of flirting, providing cheap loans, customs privileges, cheap gas prices for 30 years. Now the same thing is happening with the countries of Central Asia. The favorite pastime of the Russian leadership is to step on the same rake three times, but the most offensive thing is that it is all at our expense.
  7. 0
    16 September 2024 16: 13
    The climate is bad again. Forgot to mention.
  8. +4
    16 September 2024 16: 23
    One of the best works on this topic is "The Battle for Bread. From the Food Requisition to Collectivization" by Prudnikova.

    https://4italka.site/nauka_obrazovanie/istoriya/215556/fulltext.htm
  9. +5
    16 September 2024 16: 34
    I've seen so many monuments to this "Holodomor" - I always laugh. I ask the one with the forelock - "Did the Volga region eat red caviar with spoons at that time?" The one with the forelock stands there and keeps quiet.. Hides his pig eyes.. And these monuments, cattle - were erected for cattle.
  10. +1
    16 September 2024 16: 39
    [media=http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S30CWB9kais]When famine covers such vast territories, it is associated with weather factors, not political ones. For example, historians called 1816 the year without summer and it was so cold in the summer that there was no harvest not only in Europe but also in North America. But as it turned out, the eruption of the Tambora volcano in Indonesia was to blame for this critical cold snap and famine. For example, 2024 was also a very rainy year and there was practically no summer in Europe, and this week terrible floods occurred in central and eastern Europe, Romania suffered greatly. Austria, Germany, Czech Republic. Of course, "green environmentalists" will blame CO2 emissions for this, but a number of scientists report that the eruption of the underwater volcano Tonga, which in 2022 threw a lot of water into the atmosphere, is to blame for the current rains. Now there will be rains for several years.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. 0
    16 September 2024 17: 04
    Western politicians understood the need for socialist transformations in the 20th century, but they went their own way....

    And they firmly believed that when speaking about Russian communists, it is necessary First of all, remember that they do everything in Russian... And not in a communist way. The same thing happened with capitalism... After all, both came to Russia from the West. laughing
  13. -2
    16 September 2024 17: 16
    Culpan a Rusia, pero la Union Sovietica era una, Stalin era Georgiano de Gori y no culpan a Georgia, Brezhnev era Ucraniano de Kamenskoye y nadie culpa a Ucrania de errores estratégicos que se tomaban en la Duma.
  14. BAI
    +2
    16 September 2024 17: 16
    The famine of 1932-1933 covered a vast territory, including Ukraine, Belarus, Northern Kazakhstan, the Volga region, the Southern Urals and Western Siberia.

    one list of the affected territories shows that Ukraine has nothing to do with it. by the way, this famine was described in history books as a famine in the Volga region. most likely, the Volga region suffered the most
    1. +1
      16 September 2024 22: 01
      In the Volga region - there was another famine, in 1921-1923. It was not hidden then and aid came from all over the world, distributed by the ARA. That's why it got into the textbooks. The famine of 1032-33 was no longer advertised, and it was not in the textbooks.
      1. 0
        16 September 2024 22: 08
        1032- 33

        1932-33, of course
  15. +3
    16 September 2024 17: 33
    The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people and Russophobes are not even capable of lying more or less adequately. This is what they got with their myth - that the Bolsheviks, who created the Ukrainian SSR from different territories and nationalities, including Russians, immediately decided to "starve" the population of the Ukrainian SSR, "in order to destroy the national self-awareness of the Ukrainians."
    And at the same time, the Russian enemies of the USSR accuse the Bolsheviks of organizing the “Ukrainization” of the population of the Ukrainian SSR.
    And neither the Russian enemies of the USSR, nor the Ukrainian ones, accuse the Polish enemies of the USSR for cruelly treating Ukrainians during the occupation of Western Ukraine, because in this case there is no benefit in portraying “humanity” and “righteous anger”.
  16. +1
    18 September 2024 11: 10
    Thus, historians have already proven many times that the Holodomor was not a deliberate genocide of Ukrainians, but rather part of a greater tragedy.

    This was an attempt at targeted genocide (fortunately unsuccessful), but not by the Soviet government but by its enemies, and it happened not only in 1932-33, but since 1927 or 1928. Then the enemies of the Soviet government tried to organize a famine in the cities and disrupt the first five-year plan and industrialization. All this is written in open sources (newspapers) and the decision of the All-Union Communist Party (bolsheviks) of that time, but no one pays attention to them. Everyone repeats the propaganda of the perestroika period: "the party made mistakes locally and there were much fewer victims." And everyone talks only about 1932-33 because these were the years of the victory of the collective farms. But the fact is undeniable - before the collective farms in Russia and then the USSR there was famine in peacetime, and after the collective farms there was never a famine without a war.
    Thus, according to statistics, from 1927 to 1933 the average annual mortality rate was 522 thousand people. Now let's take the famine of 1932-1933. According to declassified reports of the Central Statistics Office, during these years 2 people died for various reasons on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR.

    In 1932-33, a major change occurred in the tax policy and statistics of the USSR. Before this, taxes were paid by reporting the number of "eaters" in the family of a peasant individual farmer. Therefore, statistics contained an unknown, but very large number of already dead adults or unborn children. In the collective farms and in statistics, all this was more or less corrected in 1932-33 and they got 2,5 million "dead" in two years for the place of 4 or 5 years.
    Look at the inhuman efforts the authorities in Kyiv are making to prove the "Holodomor" and they are doing it very poorly, or rather, they are not succeeding at all.
  17. 0
    18 September 2024 15: 18
    Publish the national composition of those who died of hunger. As for me, this is how the Russians of Ukraine died, and the Ukrainian nationalists in the communist leadership rejoiced.
  18. log
    +1
    19 September 2024 07: 44
    Zhozhly makes excellent use of the Holodomor and Katyn themes in propaganda. Where are our propagandists who have equated the pen with the bayonet? Enough of repenting in vain. There is a war going on, and there are enemies on the other side.
  19. 0
    22 September 2024 23: 18
    It's good that the Americans haven't yet blamed Russia for the famine in the US at the same time.
  20. 0
    22 September 2024 23: 38
    Why the so-called "Holodomor" is a political speculation of Kyiv

    This "Holodomor" is a fabrication in the style of Goebbels' propaganda.