The state of Soviet anti-tank artillery after the end of the Great Patriotic War

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The state of Soviet anti-tank artillery after the end of the Great Patriotic War

During the Second World War the greatest losses tanks applied specialized artillery systems originally created to combat armored vehicles. Based on statistical data obtained during the examination of destroyed Soviet T-34, KV, IS tanks and self-propelled guns created on their basis, one can come to the unambiguous conclusion that the majority of the vehicles were hit by artillery fire - about 80% of irretrievably lost tanks and self-propelled guns. This number includes vehicles destroyed and burned by fire from tank, anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns.

However, it should be understood that most often our tanks ended up in the sights of specialized anti-tank guns, heavy and expensive 88-mm anti-aircraft guns were used to fight armored vehicles only occasionally and forcibly, and tanks fought with tanks not as often as is commonly believed.



The proportion of tracked armored vehicles destroyed by other weapons as a result of poor driving and improper operation is relatively small. aviation even with total enemy air superiority and unfavorable conditions, they did not exceed 15%, and in the presence of organized Defense, proper camouflage and dispersal - no more than 5%.

Sometimes the distribution of losses from certain anti-tank weapons depended heavily on a specific section of the front and local conditions. For example, on the Karelian and Leningrad fronts, losses from mines and landmines in 1944 reached 30%. However, most of the tanks that were blown up by mines, if they were not finished off by the enemy, were restored after evacuation.

During assault operations to capture large cities, where tanks were forced to maneuver in cramped conditions and the firing range was reduced to a minimum, the number of vehicles destroyed as a result of armour penetration by hand-held and rocket-propelled cumulative grenades increased sharply.

The dependence of the share of destroyed medium and heavy tanks on the caliber of armor-piercing artillery shells is also very indicative. On average, one disabled T-34 tank was hit by 4,9 37-50 mm shells and 1,5-1,8 75-88 mm shells. Powerful 75-88 mm guns penetrated any section of our tanks' armor protection, with the exception of the IS-2's upper frontal armor.

In addition, with the advent of 75 and 88 mm caliber guns with a high muzzle velocity, the effective firing range against armored vehicles in the frontal projection increased significantly (up to 900 m for 75 mm and up to 1 m for 500 mm guns). Penetration of armor by 88–75 mm shells, which had high energy, often led to detonation of ammunition and ignition of fuel, which made tank restoration impossible.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find reliable studies on the distribution of enemy tank losses suffered from various Soviet anti-tank weapons. But the recollections of German tank crews and the memoirs of our military leaders allow us to conclude that on the Eastern Front, the main threat to the Panzerwaffe was posed by Soviet towed anti-tank artillery of 45-76 mm caliber.

In this place, military experts stories Some may object to me, pointing to the very successful use of cumulative aviation PTABs during the battle of Kursk and the effective strikes on German armored vehicles by British and American aviation at the final stage of the war, as well as the role of minefields and infantry anti-tank weapons.

All this is true, but in the case of PTABs, which destroyed up to 20% of German tanks in local areas, there was a surprise effect. Later, this figure fell, in order to reduce losses, the enemy switched to dispersed marching and pre-battle formations, during stops, German tankers began to place their vehicles under various canopies, trees and install light metal nets over the roof of the turret and hull.

As for the successes of the Allied air forces, they operated in very significant forces under conditions of complete dominance, and mainly fought not even against armored vehicles, but paralyzed supplies, destroying tankers, trucks with ammunition and technical support vehicles. As a result, German crews were forced to abandon their tanks and self-propelled guns, left without shells, fuel and spare parts.

Mine-explosive barriers are very effective in blocking the movement of armored vehicles, but, again, only under the condition that enemy sappers do not have the opportunity to make passages through them, and the minefields are covered by machine guns and artillery.

Anti-tank 14,5 mm rifles played a significant role in the initial period of the war, but as tanks became more protected, their effectiveness dropped sharply. Hand-held anti-tank high-explosive and cumulative grenades can be used relatively safely only from cover, and nothing like the Bazooka ever appeared in our infantry units during the war.

Let's get back to the subject of the conversation. Although, according to feedback from the active army, there was almost always a shortage of antitank guns, the saturation of troops with 45-76 mm guns occurred by mid-1943, and by 1944 the number of antitank divisions reached its maximum. As of January 1, 1944, the antitank artillery included 50 fighter-antitank brigades and 141 fighter-antitank regiments.

But in fairness it should be said that from the second half of the war, not all Soviet anti-tank guns in service fully met their intended purpose, which is why the troops had a significant number of captured 50-75 mm guns.

37-mm airborne cannon CHK-M1


This light anti-tank weapon, little known to the general public, was created in the OKBL-46 design bureau under the leadership of E. V. Charnko and accepted into service in mid-1944, but there is no information about its use in combat.


37-mm anti-tank gun ChK-M1 on display at the museum

The gun, weighing 209 kg in the firing position, allowed for air transportation and parachuting. It was specially designed for anti-tank units of paratroops, mechanized battalions and motorcycle regiments. If necessary, the gun could be disassembled into four parts: the mount, a 4,5 mm thick shield, a swinging part and a wheeled chassis.

The internal structure of the barrel, ballistics and ammunition were borrowed from the 37-mm anti-aircraft automatic gun 61-K mod. 1939. The wheel drive was intended only for rolling the gun over short distances and was separated during long-term transportation.

The ammunition load of the ChK-M1 could include a UBR-167P round with a sub-caliber projectile. The streamlined BR-167P sub-caliber armor-piercing projectile weighed 0,62 kg and had an initial velocity of 955 m/s. At a distance of 300 m, it could penetrate 90 mm of armor. A regular BR-167 caliber armor-piercing projectile weighing 0,77 kg with an initial velocity of 865 m/s could penetrate 50 mm of armor at the same distance.

When firing, a crew of four occupied a prone position. The horizontal firing sector was 45°. The vertical aiming angles were from –5° to +5°. The rate of fire was 15–25 rounds/min.

Thanks to the original design of the recoil devices, the 37-mm airborne gun mod. 1944 combined powerful ballistics of an anti-aircraft gun for its caliber with small dimensions and weight. With armor penetration values ​​close to the 45-mm M-42 gun, the ChK-M1 is three times lighter and significantly smaller in size.

A much lower line of fire made it much easier to camouflage the gun, and its lighter weight made it easy for the crew to roll the gun. At the same time, the ChK-M1 was inferior to the 45 mm gun in terms of the lack of a full-fledged wheel drive, which made it impossible to tow at high speed.

In addition, the M-42 gun had a number of other advantages - the absence of a muzzle brake that would unmask the weapon when firing, a more effective fragmentation shell, and better behind-the-armor action of armor-piercing shells.

The light and compact 37 mm gun could be very effective in the initial period of the war, when enemy tanks did not have thick anti-shell armor. By 1944, the ChK-M1 gun occupied a narrow niche as an anti-tank weapon of highly mobile units. A total of 472 guns were produced, some of which were used until the mid-1950s.

To increase mobility, the ChK-M1 cannon could be mounted on a light cross-country vehicle or on a motorcycle with a sidecar.


Each gun crew was supposed to have two motorcycles. The first motorcycle carried the gun, driver, gunner, and loader. The second carried the driver, commander, shell carrier, and part of the ammunition. The motorcycle mount could fire on the move at a speed of up to 10 km/h when moving on a good road.

45 mm gun mod. 1942 M-42


In the initial period of the war, the basis of the Red Army anti-tank artillery was the 45-mm guns mod. 1937. In 1941, they were in the anti-tank platoons of rifle battalions (2 guns) and in the anti-tank divisions of rifle divisions (12 guns). They were also in service with separate anti-tank regiments, which included five four-gun batteries.

In the hands of experienced and tactically skilled commanders and trained crews, the 45-mm anti-tank gun at the time of its appearance, provided that it had high-quality armor-piercing shells, posed a serious threat to enemy armored vehicles. Its positive qualities were high mobility and ease of camouflage. However, due to the increase in armored targets' protection, a more powerful weapon was urgently needed, which became the 45-mm M-42 gun mod. 1942, designed in the design bureau at Plant No. 172 in Motovilikha.


45 mm gun M-42 mod. 1942

The 45 mm anti-tank gun M-42 was obtained by modernizing the 45 mm gun mod. 1937. The modernization consisted of lengthening the barrel (from 46 to 68 calibers), strengthening the propellant charge (the mass of gunpowder in the case increased from 360 to 390 grams) and a number of technological measures to simplify serial production. The thickness of the armor of the shield cover was increased from 4,5 mm to 7 mm for better protection of the crew from rifle armor-piercing bullets. The weight in the combat position was 625 kg, which allowed the gun to be quickly deployed or changed position by a crew of 5 people. The low silhouette (height 1 mm) reduced visibility on the battlefield and provided the opportunity for good camouflage.

The upgraded gun's muzzle velocity increased from 760 to 870 m/s. At a normal range of 500 meters, the 53-BR-240 armor-piercing projectile weighing 1,43 kg penetrated 60 mm of armor. The 53-BR-240P subcaliber projectile with a tungsten core weighing 0,85 penetrated 300 mm of armor at a range of 83 m.

The presence of fragmentation and canister shots in the ammunition set made it possible to destroy enemy firing points and successfully repel attacks by enemy infantry. When exploding, a 45 mm fragmentation grenade produced about 100 fragments that retained their lethal force when scattered along the front by 15 m and in depth by 5-7 m. Canister bullets when fired form a damaging sector along the front by 45-50 m and in depth by up to 350 m.


According to the recollections of anti-tank veterans, the M-42 had very high shooting accuracy and relatively low recoil. This made it possible to fire at a high rate of fire without correcting the aiming. The rate of fire was up to 25 rounds/min.

The relatively simple and technologically advanced design allowed the M-42 to be mass-produced. By 1946, the Soviet industry had manufactured 11 of these guns. Most of them were lost during combat, but in 156, the troops and warehouses had more than 1947 M-2 guns, they remained in active service until the early 500s and were used by the Soviet Army for training purposes until the first half of the 42s.

But even before the victory over Nazi Germany, due to the increase in the thickness of tank armor, it became clear that even taking into account numerous advantages and the introduction of the sub-caliber projectile, the 45-mm guns did not have prospects for long-term use. The armor penetration of the M-42 was not enough to combat German heavy tanks with powerful anti-shell armor Pz. Kpfw. V and Pz. Kpfw. VI, and confident penetration of the frontal armor of the medium Pz. Kpfw. IV hull when using a sub-caliber projectile was achieved at a distance of about 200 m. Shooting at the sides, stern and chassis was more successful. Nevertheless, due to the established mass production, mobility, ease of camouflage and low cost, the gun remained in service until the very end of the war.

In the post-war period, the "forty-fives" were actively given to the allies, and they fought in large numbers on the Korean Peninsula.


U.S. soldiers from the 5th Cavalry Regiment examine a captured M-45 42mm cannon.

In hilly terrain, the light and highly accurate guns proved themselves to be good weapons against manpower and fire points. The M-42s served the longest in Albania, where artillery pillboxes were built for them in mountainous terrain. Guns of this type were finally removed from service in the Albanian army in the mid-1990s.

57-mm gun ZIS-2


In the second half of the 1930s, the development of tanks with anti-shell armor began, and the issue of creating anti-tank guns capable of fighting them became acute. Calculations showed the futility of the 45 mm caliber in terms of a sharp increase in armor penetration. Various research organizations considered 55 and 60 mm calibers, but in the end it was decided to settle on the 57 mm caliber. Guns of this caliber were already used in the army before the revolution and navy (Nordenfeld and Hotchkiss guns).


Rounds for 57mm anti-tank gun

A new artillery round was developed for this caliber: the muzzle of a standard 76 mm cartridge case from a 76 mm divisional gun was re-crimped, inserting a 57 mm projectile into it, which increased the initial velocity.

The design team headed by Vasily Gavrilovich Grabin achieved success in creating the 57-mm anti-tank gun. The main feature of the new artillery system was the use of a 73-caliber barrel. The gun penetrated 1 mm of armor with an armor-piercing projectile at a distance of 000 m.

The prototype was manufactured in October 1940, and in March 1941 the artillery system entered service under the official name 57-mm anti-tank gun mod. 1941. In total, about 1941 guns were delivered from June to December 250.


57 mm anti-tank gun mod. 1941

The 57 mm gun confidently penetrated the frontal armor of all tanks that existed at that time at real combat distances. Nevertheless, production of these guns ceased in 1941. Contrary to popular belief, this happened not because this anti-tank gun "was too powerful", but because under wartime conditions, Soviet industry could not ensure the stable production of long 57 mm artillery barrels.

Mass production of 57-mm anti-tank guns became possible in 1943, after the necessary metalworking machines were received from the USA. The restoration of serial production was difficult - technological problems with the manufacture of barrels arose again, in addition, the plant was heavily loaded with the production program of 76-mm divisional and tank guns.

The 57 mm guns of 1941 and 1943 differed in a number of parts and manufacturing technology. The anti-tank gun of 1943 is known as the ZIS-2.


The first batch of ZIS-2 was delivered in May 1943, and the production of these guns made extensive use of the stock that had been mothballed at the plant since 1941. Mass production of ZIS-2 was organized by November 1943, after the commissioning of new production facilities equipped with equipment supplied under Lend-Lease.

The gun's mass in the firing position was 1 kg. The horizontal aiming sector was 050°, the vertical aiming angles were from -57° to +5°. A well-trained crew of 25 people could fire 5 shells per minute. With aiming, with adjustment of the point of impact and lead, it was possible to fire 25 rounds per minute at a moving target.

The UBR-271 armor-piercing projectile weighing 3,19 kg had an initial velocity of 990 m/s and at a range of 500 m, when hitting at a right angle, was capable of penetrating armor protection more than 100 mm thick. The UBR-271P subcaliber coil-shaped tracer, weighing 1,79 kg, accelerated to 1 m/s and penetrated an armor plate more than 270 mm thick at a normal angle of 500 m.

The capabilities of the ZIS-2 allowed it to confidently penetrate the 80-mm frontal armor of the most common German medium tanks Pz. Kpfw. IV, as well as the side armor of the heavy tank Pz. Kpfw. VI at typical combat distances. At distances of less than 500 m, the frontal armor of the Tiger was also damaged. In addition to armor-piercing rounds, there were rounds with a UO-271 fragmentation grenade, weighing 3,68 kg and containing an explosive charge weighing 218 g.

In 1943, the ZIS-2 was used to arm anti-tank artillery regiments (IPTAP), with 20 guns per regiment. Since December 1944, the ZIS-2 has been introduced into the organization charts of guards rifle divisions – into regimental anti-tank batteries and into the anti-tank division (12 guns). In the summer of 1945, regular rifle divisions were also transferred to a similar organization chart.


After production resumed, more than 9 guns were delivered to the troops by the end of the war. Production of the ZIS-000 continued until 2 inclusive, and about 1949 more guns were produced in the post-war period. 3-mm barrels were manufactured until 500.

In terms of cost and production technology, combat and service-operational characteristics, the ZIS-2 became the best Soviet anti-tank gun of the war, which allowed it to be used in the Soviet Army until the 1970s.

ZIS-2 were supplied to a number of countries and took part in several local conflicts, the first of which was the Korean War. There is information about the successful use of 57-mm Soviet guns in the Arab-Israeli wars. Guns of this type were in service with the Chinese army for a long time and were produced in the PRC under the index Type 55. In the 2st century, ZIS-XNUMX were still in service in the armed forces of Algeria, Guinea, Cuba, North Korea, Congo, Namibia, Nicaragua, Togo and Yemen.

76-mm gun ZIS-3


During the war, divisional 76-mm guns were widely used to provide fire support to infantry units, suppress firing points, and destroy light field fortifications and barbed wire. However, due to the prevailing circumstances, the "divisional guns" very often had to fire at tanks. Moreover, due to the shortage of specialized anti-tank guns, the 76-mm ZIS-3 guns were put into service with fighter-anti-tank units.

Structurally, the ZIS-3 was a hybrid of the F-22USV divisional gun (oscillating part) and the carriage of the ZIS-57 2-mm anti-tank gun. At the same time, the recoil force was compensated by a muzzle brake, which was absent on the F-22USV barrel. Also, the ZIS-3 eliminated an important drawback of the F-22USV - the placement of the aiming handles on different sides of the gun barrel. This allowed the crew of four (commander, gunner, loader, carrier) to perform only their functions.

When creating the new gun, much attention was paid to its technological effectiveness, and the design itself was immediately designed for mass production, which made it possible to obtain a gun that was almost three times cheaper than the F-22USV, while being no less effective. The ZIS-3 gun, created under the supervision of V. G. Grabin, entered service on February 12, 1942.


76mm ZIS-3 gun

Three types of 76 mm guns mod. 1942 were produced, differing in elevation angles, riveted or welded frames, push-button or lever trigger, breech and sighting devices. 76 mm guns, sent to anti-tank artillery, were equipped with direct-fire sights PP1-2 or OP2-1.


The gun could fire at targets in the horizontal plane in a sector of 54°, depending on the modification, the maximum aiming angle was 27° or 37°. The weight in the combat position did not exceed 1 kg. The gun could be aimed horizontally in a sector of 200°, vertically - from -54° to +5°. Like the ZIS-37, the ZIS-2 gun could be transported by mechanical traction at a speed of up to 3 km/h.


The 53-BR-350A armor-piercing projectile weighing 6,3 kg had an initial velocity of 662 m/s and could penetrate 300 mm of armor at a distance of 73 m by normal. The 53-BR-354P subcaliber projectile weighing 3,02 kg with an initial velocity of 950 m/s at 300 m by normal penetrated 100 mm of armor.

76mm rounds for the ZIS-3 gun

The 53-OF-350 fragmentation grenade weighing 6,2 kg, loaded with 540 g of explosives, produced more than 850 lethal fragments upon explosion, which was enough to destroy unsheltered manpower within a radius of 15 m.

While the 76mm gun did a good job of destroying enemy infantry and light field fortifications, its effectiveness in firing at medium and heavy tanks left much to be desired.

The frontal armor of the heavy tank Pz. Kpfw. VI was invulnerable to the ZIS-3 and slightly vulnerable at distances closer than 300 m in the side projection. Even in the frontal projection, the Pz. Kpfw. V tank was slightly vulnerable to the ZIS-3, as well as the modernized Pz. Kpfw. IV Ausf H/M/N. However, the Panther and all modifications of the Four were confidently hit by the ZIS-3 in the side. The introduction of a sub-caliber projectile into the ammunition loadout improved the situation somewhat, but such rounds were in short supply and were under special control.

Since 1944, due to the slowdown in the production of 45 mm M-42 guns and the shortage of 57 mm ZIS-2, the ZIS-3 gun, despite its insufficient armor penetration for that time, became the main anti-tank artillery system of the Red Army. This was a strictly forced decision, but by the end of the war it was not possible to replace the ZIS-3 in fighter-anti-tank units. In 1943-1944, 57 2 mm ZIS-4 anti-tank guns were produced, and 375 ZIS-3s during the same period, about half of which were sent to fighter-anti-tank units.

The relatively low armor penetration of 76 mm guns was partially compensated by the tactics of use and shooting at vulnerable points of medium and heavy tanks. The fight against German tanks and self-propelled guns at the final stage of the war was largely facilitated by the reduction in the quality of armor steel.

Due to a shortage of alloying additives, the armor smelted in Germany since 1944 had increased hardness due to the increased carbon content and was quite brittle. When hit by a shell, even without penetrating the armor, there were often chips on the inside, which led to crew casualties and damage to internal equipment.

Although the ZIS-1950 was already considered obsolete in the 3s, and more advanced divisional guns were mass-produced, its mass production ensured a long life for this gun, and it participated in many local conflicts. In the USSR, 76-mm guns were still in storage in the 1980s, and they were also actively used for training.

100 mm BS-3 cannon


The 100-mm BS-3 gun was created by the design team of V. G. Grabin in response to the requirements of the State Defense Committee to strengthen anti-tank defense. When choosing the caliber, the determining factor was the development of the pre-war production of the 100-mm B-34 naval universal gun, as well as unitary loading rounds, and in this part it was only necessary to additionally develop an armor-piercing projectile, which was absent from the B-34 ammunition nomenclature.

It was clear from the very beginning that such a weapon would have a significant mass, which would exclude rolling by the crew and would require the use of tracked tractors for off-road towing, and that the development of an 85-mm anti-tank gun, which would be lighter and cheaper, would be more optimal. At the same time, the use of a 100-mm shot allowed the use of a new artillery system for the destruction of fortifications and counter-battery combat.

When the Red Army switched to offensive operations, the need for such a weapon was high, since the existing 107-mm divisional gun of the 1940 model (M-60) was taken out of production, and the 122-mm corps gun of the 1931/37 model (A-19) was too heavy and had a low rate of fire. A fairly heavy 100-mm armor-piercing projectile in combination with a voluminous case of a naval universal gun made it possible to achieve high armor penetration without introducing a sub-caliber projectile, which required scarce tungsten.

By the State Defense Committee decree of May 7, 1944, the gun was accepted into service under the name "100-mm field gun mod. 1944", its factory index became BS-3. It was under this designation that this artillery system became widely known.


100 mm BS-3 cannon

The phrase "field gun" first appeared in the designation of a gun created in Soviet times. The specialists of the Main Artillery Directorate spent a long time deciding what to call the new gun. As a divisional gun, the 100-mm gun turned out to be too heavy, and as an anti-tank gun, it did not meet a number of the conditions of the time. Moreover, the creator of this gun, V. G. Grabin, never considered the BS-3 to be an anti-tank gun, which, apparently, was reflected in the name.

To ensure high power, reduced weight, compactness and high rate of fire, a wedge semi-automatic breech and a two-chamber muzzle brake with 60% efficiency were used for the first time on a gun of this caliber. The wheel problem was solved in an original way; wheels from the GAZ-AA or ZIS-5 were usually used for lighter guns. But they were not suitable for the new gun. The wheels from the five-ton YaAZ turned out to be too heavy and large.

Then a pair of wheels from the GAZ-AA was taken, which allowed it to fit into the specified weight and dimensions. The wheels from the GAZ-AA truck had a reinforced rubber tire and a special hub. Guns equipped with such wheels could be transported by mechanical traction at fairly high speeds and not get stuck in soft soils.

Due to the presence of a wedge breech with a vertically moving wedge with semi-automatics, the location of the vertical and horizontal aiming mechanisms on one side of the gun, as well as the use of unitary shots, the rate of fire reached 10 rounds/min. Shooting was carried out with unitary shots with armor-piercing tracer shells and high-explosive fragmentation grenades.

The UBR-412B armor-piercing tracer projectile, weighing 15,88 kg, left the barrel with an initial velocity of 897 m/s and at a range of 500 m at an angle of 90° penetrated 160 mm of armor. At a distance of 1 m, armor penetration was 000 mm. The direct fire range was 135 m. The maximum firing range of a high-explosive fragmentation grenade was 1 m.

The OF-412 high-explosive fragmentation shell weighing 15,6 kg contained 1,46 kg of TNT and was very effective not only in destroying field fortifications and killing enemy manpower, but also when firing at armored vehicles. Although a direct hit from a 100 mm high-explosive fragmentation shell did not penetrate the frontal armor of the Pz. Kpfw. IV Ausf H medium tank, the combat vehicle was guaranteed to be out of action.

At the same time, the 100-mm field gun had a number of shortcomings that made it difficult to use as an anti-tank gun. When firing, the BS-3 gun jumped a lot, which made the gunner's work unsafe and knocked down the sighting settings, and in turn led to a decrease in the practical rate of aimed fire - a quality very important for a field anti-tank gun. The presence of a powerful muzzle brake at a low height of the firing line and flat trajectories, typical for firing at armored targets, led to the formation of a significant smoke and dust cloud, unmasking the position and blinding the crew.

The gun's mass in the firing position was 3 kg, which, given the barrel length of 650 mm, created certain difficulties during transportation, and rolling it by the crew on the battlefield was practically impossible. While the 5 mm, 960 mm and 45 mm guns were towed by horse teams, GAZ-57, GAZ-76, GAZ-AA, GAZ-AAA, ZIS-64 vehicles or Dodge WC-67 ("Dodge 5/51") vehicles supplied from the middle of the war under Lend-Lease, towing the BS-3 required tracked tractors, or, in extreme cases, all-wheel drive Studebaker US4 trucks.


The length of the gun in the traveling position reached 9 mm, width - 370 mm, height - 2 mm. The horizontal aiming angle is 150°. The range of vertical aiming angles is from -1° to +500°. The maximum towing speed is 58 km/h. Crew - 5 people.

Although the BS-3 was capable of destroying any German mass-produced tank or heavy self-propelled gun, the importance of this weapon as an anti-tank weapon is greatly exaggerated. By the time the BS-3 appeared, the Germans had hardly used tanks in large numbers. The 100-mm field gun was produced in small quantities during the war and could not play a significant role.

In addition, most of the guns supplied to the troops were, as a rule, located far from the “front line”, serving as a “special anti-tank reserve” in case of a breakthrough by large groups of enemy heavy tanks.

Moreover, the first issue guns only had sighting devices for firing from closed positions - the S-71A-5 panorama. The OP1-5 optical sight for direct fire was only installed a couple of months after the start of serial production of the guns.


The BS-3 guns were in units of the 2nd Ukrainian Front, the 9th Guards Army, and the 6th Guards Tank Army. Three corps artillery brigades (61st, 62nd, and 63rd) were attached to rifle corps. Each of these artillery brigades had one artillery regiment armed with 3 BS-20 guns, meaning that the three artillery regiments had a total of 60 BS-3 guns.

Another unit of the 9th Guards Army that had BS-3 guns was the 76th Guards Anti-Tank Artillery Regiment, which received 16 100-mm guns. In addition, the 6th Guards Army included the 202nd Separate Light Artillery Brigade, one of its three artillery regiments of which was armed with 20 BS-3 guns.

In total, the 2nd Ukrainian Front units had 1945 BS-96 guns in March 3, but they were used sparingly as anti-tank guns, and mainly fired from closed positions, as well as counter-battery combat. For example, the gunners of the 408th Artillery Regiment destroyed only one medium German self-propelled gun with BS-3 fire in March, having spent 6 armor-piercing tracer shells, and in the 37th Artillery Regiment, they were able to destroy one German tank with BS-3 fire in the whole of April.

The artillerymen of the 409th regiment reported the most destroyed enemy armored vehicles (10 enemy tanks and self-propelled guns), whose positions were counterattacked several times. At the same time, the consumption of armor-piercing shells per destroyed tank or self-propelled gun exceeded 10 units, which indicates that the shooting was conducted from a long distance. In the firing range conditions, well-trained gunners at a distance of 500 m when firing at moving targets spent an average of 2,2 shells with a combat rate of fire of 4,5 rounds/min.

By the time the BS-3 was first delivered to the troops, the need for such a weapon was not obvious. At the end of 1944, the backbone of the Panzerwaffe was broken; the Red Army already had fairly effective 57-mm ZIS-2 anti-tank guns, SU-100 self-propelled guns, T-34-85 and IS-2 tanks. In extreme cases, 122-mm A-19 guns and 152-mm ML-20 howitzer-guns, as well as ISU-122 and ISU-152 heavy self-propelled guns, could be used to combat the enemy's few heavy tanks.

General assessment of the effectiveness of Soviet anti-tank artillery at the end of World War II


To summarize, I will try to assess the effectiveness of the Soviet anti-tank guns by type of guns and their suitability for current tasks.

Inexpensive, fairly easy to operate, maneuverable and easily camouflaged, the 45mm M-42 cannons at the final stage of combat operations no longer provided reliable destruction of the frontal projections of medium and heavy tanks even when firing from extremely close range.

At the same time, the "forty-fives" remained in demand, thanks to their ability to accompany infantry with fire and wheels, being directly in combat formations to destroy exposed firing points with direct fire and participate in repelling enemy counterattacks. When performing anti-tank missions, they tried to use them in combination with more powerful guns and arrange camouflaged firing positions taking into account the folds of the terrain, so that there was the possibility of firing at the sides of enemy armored vehicles. But after the first shots, good camouflage no longer helped, and the crews of the 45-mm guns often died, and the guns themselves were destroyed by enemy fire.

The 76 mm ZIS-3 divisional guns, which were forced to be used in antitank guns, also had an insufficient direct fire range for an antitank gun and low armor penetration. The use of subcaliber shells gave a good effect at very close combat distances. It was much more difficult to camouflage the ZIS-3 than the M-42, and the muzzle brake produced a clearly visible flash when fired and led to the formation of a smoke and dust cloud.

The problem of low armor penetration could have been partially solved by introducing a cumulative projectile into the ammunition load, similar to the one that was in the ammunition load of the regimental 76-mm gun, but due to the imperfection of the fuses, this did not happen before the end of the war.

As mentioned above, the 100 mm BS-3, due to its very significant weight and dimensions, high cost and a number of other parameters, was not optimal as a primary anti-tank weapon and was considered as a special reserve in case of a breakthrough by enemy tanks.

The only Soviet gun that basically met the requirements of anti-tank defense was the 57-mm ZIS-2. However, it was not possible to fully saturate the troops with these guns even at the final stage of the war. The long 57-mm barrel was very difficult to manufacture and even when using fairly precise American metalworking machines, there was a significant percentage of defects.

The lack of truly effective anti-tank guns in the Red Army was partially compensated for by the active use of captured German 50 mm 5 cm Pak. 38 guns (armor penetration with a 70 mm caliber projectile at a distance of 500 m), and especially 75 mm 7,5 cm Pak. 40 guns (armor penetration with a 110 mm caliber projectile at a distance of 500 m).


The 7,5 cm Pak. 40 was considered the best German anti-tank artillery system of World War II in terms of its overall characteristics, and it fought actively until the capitulation of Nazi Germany.

At the end of 1943, the Red Army began forming anti-tank fighter divisions armed with German-made 75-mm guns, which significantly surpassed the Soviet 76-mm ZiS-3 guns in terms of armor penetration. In the first post-war years, up to 800 5 cm Pak. 38 and 7,5 cm Pak. 40 guns were at the disposal of the Soviet troops. In the late 1940s, the 7,5 cm Pak. 40 in the USSR, which were suitable for further use, were put into storage, where they remained for about 15 years.


In 1959, North Vietnam received several dozen 7,5 cm Pak. 40s from the USSR, taken from warehouses, and ammunition for them. The 7,5 cm Pak. 40s were sent to the DRV to form anti-tank divisions, which was due to fears of aggression from the South using armored vehicles. Later, the 75 mm guns were placed in anti-landing fortifications on the coast, where they were used until the early 1980s.

To be continued ...
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  1. +8
    20 September 2024 08: 36
    Sergey is on top as always! Thanks for the good article. hi
  2. +2
    20 September 2024 08: 42
    Yes, it might be worth mentioning that we also used anti-aircraft guns against tanks, although this is not directly related to anti-tank weapons, but it is a fact.
    1. +10
      20 September 2024 08: 59
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      Yes, it might be worth mentioning that we also used anti-aircraft guns against tanks, although this is not directly related to anti-tank weapons, but it is a fact.

      All warring countries used anti-aircraft guns against tanks to one degree or another.

      Here is the final article in the series Anti-aircraft guns against tanks :

      https://topwar.ru/103159-zenitki-protiv-tankov-chast-5-ya.html

      At the end of this publication there are active links to previous parts. hi
      1. +4
        20 September 2024 11: 19
        The author certainly tried to embrace the immensity, of course +, but the whole problem was in the limited capabilities of producing sub-caliber projectiles. They used metals that we did not have in sufficient quantities at that time. It turned out to be optimal to increase the barrel length to 57 mm and use a 76 mm shell, but it was very difficult to produce barrels for the ZIS-2. In addition, it was possible to radically solve the problem by installing cumulative projectiles for the ZIS 3, but again they were given 10% of such projectiles and not by everyone or always, hence the conclusion, ALAS could not at that time and in that quantity. And about 37 mm, it is a clearly failed idea. The energy of 37 mm for penetration can be given by a significant increase in the speed of the projectile (the ZiS-2 had a 76 mm shell and an increased barrel length), but the barrel under these conditions wears out multiple times the results. Moreover, materials for the sub-caliber projectile were scarce. In the end, as history has shown, 37mm was abandoned as unpromising.
        1. +5
          20 September 2024 11: 37
          Nikolai, welcome!
          Quote: NIKNN
          to radically solve the problem by installing cumulative shells for the ZIS 3, but again they were given 10% of such shells and not by everyone, not always,

          During WWII, the ZIS-3 did not have cumulative shells in its ammunition load.
  3. +6
    20 September 2024 09: 25
    I have seen many photos of the M-42 on old spoked wheels, not the all-metal stamped ones that Sergey posted in the section about the "forty-five". But! To my shame, only today I noticed that the artillery crew has both carbines and submachine guns in their gun crew. The photo is 99% staged, the composition is very professionally constructed, and in the upper right corner you can see sharp marks from two masks when printing the positive, but still - it's interesting. Should a soldier with a carbine be in cover with horses?
    1. +6
      20 September 2024 09: 43
      Quote: Tests
      I have seen many photos of the M-42 on old spoked wheels, not the all-metal stamped ones that Sergey posted in the section about the "forty-five". But! To my shame, only today I noticed that the artillery crew has both carbines and submachine guns in their gun crew. The photo is 99% staged, the composition is very professionally constructed, and in the upper right corner you can see sharp marks from two masks when printing the positive, but still - it's interesting. Should a soldier with a carbine be in cover with horses?


      Judging by everything, this is a late-production M-42. Of course, by many indications, this photo is staged. Yes And as you rightly noted, the main personal weapons of the PTA crews were carbines, and not always of domestic production.
      1. +3
        20 September 2024 21: 47
        Bongo (Sergey), respected, why let the good go to waste! The damned tsarism left behind all sorts of guns, then the invaders came "to guard their warehouses from the Bolsheviks", it was not for nothing that they said: "Bakaritsa is almost abroad! Only the asphalt is thinner, and the houses are lower!" Then the annexation of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, then Finland, the annexation of the Baltic lands, Northern Bukovina, Bessarabia and the Hertsa region. What trophies the Red Army did not send to warehouses! According to the memoirs of the Honorary Citizen of Severodvinsk Innokenty Stepanovich Bakhtin and the former power engineer of SEVMASH Ivan Vasilyevich Lodygin (during the Great Patriotic War the former was a private soldier, and the latter was the commander of one of the three platoons of the fighter battalion of the city of Molotovsk), all the fighters of the fighter battalion were armed with Mauser carbines, the commanders - with Nagant revolvers. For combing the islands of the Northern Dvina delta, the forests near the village of Solza and the village of Nyonoksa in search of German paratroopers and crews of downed fascist planes, the fighters received 150 rounds per carbine... And 2 or 3 brigades that were formed in Nyonoksa during the war from men over 55 years old, called up to the labor front from the Kirov region, fished all year round, and in the summer and fall they caught beluga whales, were armed with Winchester rifles. There were plenty of cartridges for them. Most of the labor army men had never seen the sea before, they had trained for a long time in shooting at logs from karbasses in the spring of 1942. They had overfulfilled the plan for catching beluga whales, they had learned to shoot, it turns out.
        1. +3
          23 September 2024 11: 58
          Quote: Tests
          Then the annexation of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, then Finland, the annexation of the Baltic lands, Northern Bukovina, Bessarabia and the Hertsa region. What trophies the Red Army didn't send to warehouses!

          Better than a thousand words:

          © Waralbum. Leningrad militiamen: squad commander (Lensovet deputy) V.S. Platonov, V.S. Marugin, and V.E. Skvortsov receive weapons - Canadian Ross rifles (Rifle Ross Mark III) model 1910. On the table are RGD-33 hand grenades.

          © Waralbum. Riflemen of the first battalion of the 1st Moscow Communist Regiment of the 3rd Moscow Division of the People's Militia during tactical training. In the foreground with a Polish light machine gun RKM Wz.28 is Red Army soldier Pavel Akakievich Biryukov (born 16.07.1899).
          And the fighters of the same 3rd Moscow DNO received Lebel rifles.
          The same goes for the Lebel fighters, and they have different ones: the 1907/15 for a three-round pack, and the M1916 for a five-round pack.
          © Waralbum
          1. 0
            30 September 2024 00: 45
            In every war and SVO it's the same thing. Militias in whatever they can find, all the old stuff to the front, then the military industry catches up and new models arrive, faster and faster...
            1. 0
              30 September 2024 10: 41
              Quote: stankow
              In every war and SVO it's the same. Militiamen in whatever they can find, all their old stuff to the front

              It's better not to remember about the SVO. First the Ministry of Defense announces that it is stopping purchasing AK-74s due to warehouses being overcrowded... and then the militia is issued sniper "Mosins".
              1. 0
                30 September 2024 10: 45
                The Mosin rifles were not issued to the militia by the Ministry of Defense. The militia finished them off themselves in the period 2014-2022. When the militia was included in the staff, they received normal SVDs and AK-74s. And even AK-12s.
                1. 0
                  30 September 2024 11: 59
                  Quote: stankow
                  The Mosin rifles were not issued to the militias by the Ministry of Defense. The militias finished them off themselves in the period 2014-2022.

                  Even worse. That is, the "big brother" did not have normal small arms in stock for those mobilized in 2022 into the People's Militia. Despite the fact that the NM and the RF Armed Forces had to fight together.
  4. -1
    20 September 2024 10: 01
    According to the recollections of one comrade, the 75 mm PAK 40 and PAK 41 were in service in the Baltic Military District until 1975-76.
    Nowhere is there any mention of the 85 mm D44. It is certainly not a PTO, but it is quite good as a PTO.
    1. +8
      20 September 2024 10: 27
      Quote: Larich
      Nowhere is there any mention of the 85 mm D44. It is certainly not a PTO, but it is quite good as a PTO.

      The article is called: Cthe state of soviet anti-tank artillery after the end of the great patriotic war .
      That is, we are talking about antitank guns that were in service immediately after the end of the Great Patriotic War. The production of the D-44 began in 1946, and this gun was created specifically as an antitank gun, although later it was mainly used as a divisional gun. But as experience shows, the line between a divisional and a specialized antitank gun is very thin.
      Quote: Larich
      According to the recollections of one comrade, the 75 mm PAK 40 and PAK 41 were in service in the Baltic Military District until 1975-76.

      Right in service with combat units? Sorry, I don't believe it! No.
      1. 0
        20 September 2024 10: 36
        Well, yes. In tank destroyer divisions. True, in cadre divisions. I remember he himself was surprised.
        1. +4
          20 September 2024 10: 42
          Quote: Larich
          Well, yes. In PT divisions. True, in cadre divisions.

          Your friend is a big dreamer. In the 1970s, there was a sufficient amount of domestic anti-tank guns in storage, which were superior in their characteristics to the 7,5 cm Pak. 40. As for the 7,5 cm Pak. 41 with a conical barrel, find out how many of them were made and what ammunition was used to fire them.
          1. +1
            20 September 2024 11: 14
            Let me question your peremptoriness (and most likely that is why). The 57 mm ZIS2 is still used as a training weapon. With an excess of others (it seems to you). My father shot from a ZIS70 at training in the 2s (there is a photo). An acquaintance (another) shot from a ZIS70 at training in the 3s from shells with Schneider cartridges - he brought the bottom of one as an ashtray. These are facts.
            1. +4
              20 September 2024 11: 35
              You can doubt anything, I prefer facts. And you don't have and can't have facts about German guns that were in service in the 1970s. No.
              Quote: Larich
              My father shot a ZIS70 during training camps in the 2s.
              I'm happy for your father!
              I saw ZIS-3 in storage in the early 1990s, and do you think this proves that 7,5 cm Pak. 40 were stored alongside them?
              1. +1
                20 September 2024 12: 25
                Why not pourquoi pas. On average, a PT gun needs to have a mobilization reserve of 1500-2000 shells. Total for a division - no more than 40 thousand. I agree, the story is an oxymoron, but it does exist. I'm afraid you don't know how much property we have, including trophies, STILL stored in warehouses
                And the argument that they didn’t use it because they had plenty of their own is so-so.
                And it seems that for you facts are what you personally consider facts.
                1. +2
                  20 September 2024 13: 22
                  Quote: Larich
                  And it seems that for you facts are what you personally consider facts.

                  Facts are facts for everyone. If you have evidence, please present it. But for now, what I see is speculation and demagogy! negative
                  1. -1
                    20 September 2024 13: 24
                    First you. Besides the words that these are facts.
                    For now, only a photo from Vietnam. Which is a fact that the PAK 40 with an acceptable BC was stored until the 70s and then given away because it was not particularly needed.
                    1. +3
                      20 September 2024 13: 26
                      Quote: Larich
                      First you. Besides the words that these are facts.

                      The burden of proof is on the one who makes a claim.
                      Quote: Larich
                      The 75 mm PAK 40 and PAK 41 were in service with the Baltic Military District until 1975-76.

                      You wrote this, didn't you?
                      1. 0
                        20 September 2024 14: 52
                        Think logically. PAK40 appeared in Vietnam in the early 60s (according to you, later on the homemade ones, I think). And until the 1980s. The need for them arose in 1965, the peak of military action came in 1968-72. They appeared there not out of thin air, but from storage bases, with the necessary ammunition. Where from? They were removed from service. Vietnam itself did not produce shells or barrels. Where is all this from?
                        You saw the ZIS3 in storage in the 90s, the shells for which had not been produced since the 1950s, and the guns were stored for some reason.
            2. 0
              30 September 2024 00: 50
              In the late 70s, I learned to shoot on a ZIS-3. A very nice little gun. Extra equipment. The shot was fired with a long, long rope from behind the hull. There were plenty of shells, but there were also barrel breaks, old stuff. So - they pulled from afar.
  5. +6
    20 September 2024 10: 58
    Horizontal aiming sector – 57°, horizontal aiming angles – from –5° to +25°

    The second point is the vertical aiming angles, probably
    1. +5
      20 September 2024 11: 28
      Quote: Zufei
      The second point is the vertical aiming angles, probably

      Certainly! Yes Unfortunately, it is difficult to avoid such problems. request
  6. +3
    20 September 2024 13: 05
    Moreover, the first issue guns only had sighting devices for firing from closed positions - the S-71A-5 panorama. The OP1-5 optical sight for direct fire was only installed a couple of months after the start of serial production of the guns.

    What a twist.
    But what if we had to plug a tank breakthrough, like the skirmish at Lake Balaton?
    By the way, there was information that anti-tank soldiers after being wounded and recovered were sent exclusively to anti-tank units. The pay was twice as high as for rifle units. And a special sleeve patch.
    But it's not just like that)
    1. +2
      23 September 2024 11: 45
      Quote: Zufei
      But what if we had to plug a tank breakthrough, like the skirmish at Lake Balaton?

      But the anti-tank forces near Balaton did not have BS-3s in the defensive phase of the operation. They had trophies - 16 PaK-40s and 5 PaK-43s, but no BS-3s. But the front had 78 combat-ready SU-100s.
      And only on March 16, when the 3rd UF was given the 9th Army of the 2nd UF, the 3rd UF had 60 field and 16 anti-tank BS-3. But by that time the German offensive had already run out of steam, and the 9th Army was already being used in the offensive.
    2. +1
      30 September 2024 00: 58
      With a panorama, they also shoot with direct fire. It's a little more inconvenient, but not significantly.
      1. 0
        30 September 2024 10: 42
        Quote: stankow
        With a panorama, they also shoot with direct fire. It's a little more inconvenient, but not significantly.

        They shoot. But the lack of a sight for direct fire directly indicates that the BS-3 was not considered as a specialized AT gun.
        1. 0
          30 September 2024 10: 49
          There was no sight, but there was a place for attachment and a "dependent sighting line". And aiming was on one side. So it was considered as an antitank weapon. And then the optics arrived...
          1. 0
            30 September 2024 11: 48
            Quote: stankow
            And a tip from one side.

            The ZIS-3 also had a muzzle brake, which was the main reason why the IPTP spat.
            BS-3 is a typical Soviet field gun with the ability to be used in antitank defense, if necessary. All our artillery up to the corps level had to be able to shoot at tanks if necessary.
  7. +5
    20 September 2024 13: 14
    In addition, with the advent of 75 and 88 mm caliber guns with a high muzzle velocity, the effective firing range at armored vehicles in the frontal projection increased significantly (up to 900 m for 75 mm and up to 1 m for 500 mm guns).

    But at the same time, the real firing range in field conditions for 75-mm - 88-mm anti-tank guns was, if my memory serves me right, 600-800 m - most Soviet tanks in 1944-1945 were hit from these distances.
    The reason is simple: the antitank weapon had to hit the tank with as few shots as possible - to reduce the probability of revealing the position. Therefore, the firing range was chosen based not on armor penetration (there were no problems with it, especially since the Germans tried to hit tanks in the side), but on the probability of hitting a moving target with the first or second shot.
    1. +2
      20 September 2024 18: 25
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Therefore, the firing range was chosen based not on armor penetration (there were no problems with it, especially since the Germans tried to hit tanks from the side), but on the probability of hitting a moving target with the first or second shot.

      That is, the distance of a direct shot into the tank's projection.
    2. Alf
      +3
      20 September 2024 20: 12
      Quote: Alexey RA
      But at the same time, the real firing range in field conditions for 75-mm - 88-mm anti-tank guns was, if my memory serves me right, 600-800 m - most Soviet tanks in 1944-1945 were hit from these distances.
      1. +1
        23 September 2024 10: 28
        Thank you - this is the table I had in mind. I just forgot about the 400-600m range. fool
        1. Alf
          0
          23 September 2024 19: 45
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Thank you - this is the table I had in mind. I just forgot about the 400-600m range. fool

          Not at all, always happy to help. soldier
    3. 0
      30 September 2024 01: 06
      Ahem, the firing range at direct fire is not very selectable. Fire opens at maximum range. It is important to zero in and achieve a hit. Even if the target is not hit, the fire impact does not stop. As the target approaches, it will only increase. Hits without penetration do not add to the target's health. wink
  8. +5
    20 September 2024 13: 52
    Contrary to popular belief, this was not because the anti-tank gun was “too powerful,” but because, under wartime conditions, Soviet industry could not ensure a steady production of long 57mm artillery barrels.

    Plus, there was a shortage of capacity to produce divisional 76-mm guns, which were urgently needed to compensate for the over-calculated losses of materiel in frontline units and to arm hundreds of new divisions and brigades, which were not included in any pre-war plans. Without an artillery regiment, the combat value of rifle units was close to zero.
    In general, the highly specialized anti-tank weapon was exchanged for divisional guns.
    The frontal armor of the heavy tank Pz.Kpfw.VI was invulnerable to the ZIS-3 and slightly vulnerable at distances closer than 300 m in the side projection.

    If I remember correctly, during tests in the spring of 1943, the F-34 was unable to penetrate the side of a Tiger from 200 m. But its ballistics and shells with the USV/ZIS-3 are the same.
    The 100-mm BS-3 cannon was created by the design team of V. G. Grabin in response to the State Defense Committee’s demands to strengthen anti-tank defense.

    The 100mm BS-3 cannon was created primarily as field gun, based on the requirement to develop a new corps gun based on the M-60 and B-34 guns, which would have anti-tank qualities. That is, a light long-range gun, the successor to the M-60 (and not the M-75).
    Given: tank and mechanized units need a cannon in the artillery regiment heavier than three inches. Moreover, this gun should not lag behind the tanks on the march. That is, the A-19 immediately flies - there is no suitable traction for it. Something remains in the region of 100-107 mm. The M-60 also disappears - there is no factory, no serial ammunition (discontinued). In this caliber with serial ammunition, there are only marine B-24s and B-34s. So - we will do from what we have. And it turns out a new field gun (with the possibility of using it as a PTP - however, all of our guns were included in the anti-tank system) in a 100 mm caliber.
    Moreover, you yourself write that there was no BBS for the 100 mm gun. It was only put into production in November 1944 - because of which, by the way, the SU-100 production deadlines were disrupted and the SU-85M had to be produced. And the direct-fire sight was initially absent.
    In general, the BS-3 repeated the fate of the ZIS-3: created as a field gun, it was forced to become an anti-tank weapon due to the lack of alternatives.
  9. -8
    20 September 2024 18: 57
    Well, well - "the main threat to the Panzerwaffe was precisely the Soviet towed anti-tank artillery of 45-76 mm caliber" - well, who would have guessed - I thought it was hand grenades laughing By the way, what about not having a Cheka-M1 at the beginning of the war?
    1. Alf
      +4
      20 September 2024 20: 19
      Quote: Bone1
      By the way, what about not having a Cheka-M1 at the beginning of the war?

      The gun tests at the Sofrino proving ground ended unsuccessfully - a low rate of fire (8-10 rounds/min), insufficient armor penetration, poor accuracy, and high complexity of the gun design were revealed, which did not allow the gun to be recommended for serial production. The designers did not agree with this decision and appealed it, but repeated tests of a slightly modified version of the ChKSh-1941 conducted in September 2 by a new commission led by V. G. Grabin led to the same conclusions. A decision was made to refine the gun[5].

      In order to refine the gun, a special design bureau, OKBL-1942, was created in 46 under the leadership of Charnko. The new version of the gun, indexed ChK, was submitted for testing to the Gorokhovets proving ground in August 1942. Compared to the original version, the new gun had a longer barrel and, accordingly, a higher muzzle velocity, a different layout of the recoil devices, a different design of the casing and wheel drive, and was also equipped with a shield cover. The tests revealed a significant number of breakdowns due to the poor quality of the gun's manufacture, in connection with which it was again recommended to eliminate the identified defects and send the gun for repeated tests. The refinement of the gun dragged on; it was decided to create not one, but several different prototypes. Under the old index ChK, Plant No. 79 in Kolomna manufactured several guns weighing 218 kg, outwardly resembling the version tested in 1942. At the same time, OKBL-46 created a gun under the index ChK-M1, which differed from the ChK by the presence of a round section casing, a more powerful muzzle brake and the absence of a recoil brake, the weight of the gun was reduced to 209 kg. In addition, Plant No. 79 created its own version of the gun under the index ZIV-2 with a cylindrical casing and a spring recuperator above it, this gun weighed 233 kg. All of the listed versions of the gun were sent to field tests in the spring of 1944 [5].

      You should at least look at Wiki, I won't even mention Shirokorad...
    2. +1
      23 September 2024 10: 56
      Quote: Bone1
      By the way, what about not having a Cheka-M1 at the beginning of the war?

      Time:
      The ammunition load of the CHK-M1 could include the UBR-167P round with a sub-caliber projectile.

      Two - the situation with Soviet sub-caliber shells in the second half of 1941:
      ...the core must be made from a special alloy, similar to that used by the Germans (about 75% tungsten, 2% cobalt and 4% carbon), otherwise, even if made from high-carbon tool steel with vanadium additives, it will crumble into tiny pieces when it hits the armor.
      At the same time, some employees of the UVNA and Artcom GAU began to insistently demand the reproduction of German shells, the cores of which are made of the above alloy. NII_24 objected to this, arguing that:
      1) we do not have tungsten reserves and therefore, even if favorable results are obtained, such shells will not have further practical introduction into production;
      2) the manufacture of such cores can only be carried out on grinding wheels, i.e. on equipment that is available in a few factories.
      To produce just one core for a 76 mm projectile requires such an amount of alloy that will deprive at the same time 30 aircraft industry machines it will be victorious for the entire service life of these cutters!
      © Director of NII-24 Averchenko. Chief designer of NII-24 Matyushkin.
      The situation with tungsten improved only by 1943, when the Kuomintang paid for Soviet supplies of the late 30s with tungsten concentrate. And first of all, tungsten went into mass calibers - 45 mm and 76 mm.
      And before that Fellow scientists, associate professors with candidates, tried to replicate the characteristics of the German 75% tungsten core using materials available in the USSR. With the same result: crumbles into tiny pieces when hitting armorThis work was stopped by order in 1942, when it became clear that it would not be possible to deceive physics.
      1. +1
        26 September 2024 19: 26
        What does tungsten have to do with it? - bullets for anti-tank rifles were made of carbide and managed to increase armor penetration - and a regular bullet is quite enough to penetrate any German tank from the beginning of the war from the ChK-M1. And what happened to tungsten or are we still living on the Kuomintang one? And about the need for grinding wheels for production - this is a gem - I am at a loss to guess what needs to be ground there, especially since the core is non-separable and how was this terrible problem solved in the production of 45-76 mm shells?
        1. 0
          27 September 2024 10: 33
          Quote: Bone1
          What does tungsten have to do with it?

          And considering that the caliber BB projectile of the ChK-M1 penetrated only 50 mm at 300 m at normal. In theory and with a quality projectile. And why does the Red Army need such an anti-tank weapon if it has a 45 mm one? To which it is only necessary to modify the BBS (locators).
          And secondly, what is the power of 37mm fragmentation shells? After all, up to half of the 45mm AP shells were OS shells.
          Quote: Bone1
          The anti-tank rifle was made from carbide and they managed to increase its armor penetration

          They did. But in such quantities that even at the beginning of 1942 one of the divisions had only 4 BS-41 per gun.
          Quote: Bone1
          and even a regular bullet from the ChK-M1 is quite enough to penetrate any German tank at the beginning of the war.

          There will be problems even with the "three" head-on.
          Quote: Bone1
          What happened to the tungsten?

          But it didn't exist. It was mined in quantities necessary for hard-alloy tools.
          Quote: Bone1
          and how was this terrible problem solved in the production of 45-76mm shells?

          If I remember correctly, I spent a long time painfully choosing the technology for sintering from powder so that the pencil wouldn’t crumble upon impact.
          1. 0
            28 September 2024 20: 18
            Funny answers - probably in order to say at least something last - and what is not important? the specified armor penetration of a conventional shell is enough to guarantee the destruction of any type of German tank at the beginning of the war; your - why do we need this - if we have 45s? - according to this logic, we don't need an anti-tank rifle and the fragmentation effect is below the baseboard; about tungsten - did they continue to get tungsten from the Kuomintang? laughing - so they mastered the 45-76 shells, but not this anti-tank gun, you can even shoot it?
            "
            1. 0
              30 September 2024 10: 50
              Quote: Bone1
              the specified armor penetration by a conventional projectile is sufficient to guarantee the destruction of any type of German tank at the beginning of the war

              50 mm at 300 m when hitting strictly on the normal? Already with the "three" of 1941, shooting turns into roulette.
              Quote: Bone1
              I smiled at your - why do we need this if we have 45s? - by this logic, we don’t need a PTR and the fragmentation effect is below par;

              PTRs were produced at rifle factories. And they were a ersatz for a time until the industry increased the production of 45-mm PTRs.
              The 37mm PTP is a cannon. And it will require the same production capacity as the 45mm. And when choosing between the 37mm and the 45mm, the army will choose the 45mm - as it did last time, in the early 30s.
              Quote: Bone1
              about tungsten - did they continue to receive tungsten from the Kuomintang? laughing - so they mastered the 45-76 shells, but not this anti-tank gun, you can even shoot it?

              They mastered it. In 1943. And who needs a 37-mm anti-tank gun in 1943?
              1. 0
                30 September 2024 18: 31
                Either you are not aware or you are being hypocritical - if from the end - this is an antitank gun from the company antitank gun competition of 43; there was no connection between the production volume of antitank guns and antitank rifles; how big was the frontal blast of the 3ka in 41 and according to your pseudo-logic antitank rifles are not needed at all since they don’t shoot into the frontal blast of the 3ka?
                1. 0
                  1 October 2024 11: 48
                  Quote: Bone1
                  Either you are not aware or you are being hypocritical - if from the end - this is a PTO from the company PTO competition, just 43;

                  You simply forgot your original thesis:
                  Quote: Bone1
                  By the way, in order not to have a ChK-M1 at the beginning of the war?

                  So we were talking about the Cheka-M1 in 1941.
                  Quote: Bone1
                  there was no connection between the production volume of antitank guns and antitank rifles

                  That's right! Anti-tank rifles were made precisely because they did not take up artillery production capacity. For this reason, they put up with all their shortcomings, such as low armor penetration, negligible behind-the-armor effect, huge dispersion (at a distance of 500 m, 70% of hits vertically and horizontally fit into strips almost 1 m in size) and the need to have a hammer to extract the cartridges.
                  And your 37mm will take away capacity from the production of 45mm.
                  Quote: Bone1
                  how much was the windshield of the 3 in 41

                  30+30 mm or 50 mm.
                  Quote: Bone1
                  According to your pseudo-logic, PTRs are not needed at all since they don’t shoot the 3rd one in the forehead?

                  The PTR is a ersatz weapon. Which was made when there were no alternatives at all. Our analogue of the British weapon for the Home Guard.
                  The situation with the anti-tank guns was so dire that the army forgave the anti-tank guns even for mass failures during cartridge extraction:
                  The practice of using PTR in the troops, especially in summer conditions, shows that even if the rules for preparing shotguns for shooting in accordance with paragraph 1 are observed, shotguns that do not provide free extraction can be found.
                  To eliminate delays in reloading the rifle arising in this case, allow the troops to use a wooden mallet.
                  © GAU KA
                  During tests on July 10-12.07.1942, 74, the PTRD of Plant No. 275, with 264 shots, required a hammer to be ejected XNUMX times.
                  The PTRS had even worse problems - to eliminate the delays, either disassembly with the removal of the trigger mechanism or knocking out the cartridge case with a ramrod through the barrel was required. Right before the eyes of the German tank crew, which was morphing from such avant-gardism.
                  1. 0
                    1 October 2024 19: 25
                    It seems you are being hypocritical - to your "who needs this anti-tank gun in 43?" I replied that company anti-tank guns were developed in 43-44 - what does this have to do with my proposal to do the above in 41?
                    - the forehead of the troika in 41 was 30 mm - more protected ones appeared towards the end of the year and have not yet become widespread
                    -PTRs were not a surrogate replacement for AT guns - as you amusingly think - but an addition that allows increasing the number of PT guns and saturating small units with them
                    -And in which factories were the aircraft guns produced in huge quantities made? -And what resources did they take up?
  10. -2
    21 September 2024 07: 35
    Quote: NIKNN
    It was very difficult to produce barrels for the ZIS-2
    Are you familiar with the production of barrels? Where was the ZIS-2 produced? Which of the marshals spoke out against the production of the ZIS-2 with the conclusion of "excessive impenetrability"? Why did production suddenly solve all the problems in 1943, after the Kursk Bulge?
    1. 0
      21 September 2024 18: 59
      Have you tried reading carefully? The machines came from the USA. Are you familiar with the production of parts longer than 3 meters? Even on the machines of the 60s this was a problem, moreover, they could not make guides for Grad, because they were too long and only after the delivery of machines from Germany they were able to do it.
      1. 0
        22 September 2024 17: 24
        [quote]The machines from the USA arrived[/quote] Where and when?
        [quote]Are you familiar with the production of parts longer than 3 meters?[quote] I am familiar with the production of rifled and smoothbore barrels.
        [quote]Even on the machines of the 60s this was a problem[/quote] You can't judge the problems because you don't know the technology of barrel manufacturing.
        [quote]Grad couldn't make guides[/quote] Are you talking about the Grad MLRS or the BM-13 Katyusha?
      2. 0
        26 September 2024 19: 29
        When you write, do you even think? - look at the length of the barrel of the rifle, the anti-tank rifle and up to 37mm ZO or 45ku obr 42 y. or 85ku 43
      3. 0
        30 September 2024 01: 17
        The USSR had no problems with barrels longer than 3 meters. They had the technology and the craftsmen. They even produced a 406 mm barrel. They had machine tools, but they were busy. The US simply supplied more machine tools. There was nothing unusual about them. Machine tools like machine tools. Broaches.
    2. Alf
      +2
      21 September 2024 20: 09
      Quote: Conrad1045
      Where was ZIS-2 produced?
      1. -2
        21 September 2024 20: 15
        Consequently, there could be no discussion of problems with the production of barrels, since the technology was not transferred, but was improved and prepared for mass production, which is what happened in 1943 after the Tigers and Panthers appeared.
        1. Alf
          +3
          21 September 2024 20: 19
          Quote: Conrad1045
          Therefore, there could be no discussion about the problems of barrel production.

          Hello! There's elderberry in the garden, and in Kyiv there's an uncle...
          1. -3
            21 September 2024 20: 23
            It would be better to read the original sources, for example V.G. Grabin, etc.
            1. Alf
              +3
              21 September 2024 20: 24
              Quote: Conrad1045
              It would be better to read the original sources, for example V.G. Grabin, etc.

              Confirm your post with a quote from Vasily Gavrilovich.
              1. -2
                21 September 2024 20: 33
                https://parkpatriot.ru/o-parke/tekhnika-parka/pushka-zis-2/#:~:text=%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9%20%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%20%D0%97%D0%98%D0%A1%2D2%20%D0%B1%D1%8B%D0%BB,%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5%20%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8%20%D0%97%D0%98%D0%A1%2D2%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80.
                1. Alf
                  +3
                  21 September 2024 20: 34
                  Why not just provide a quote?
            2. +2
              23 September 2024 11: 18
              Quote: Conrad1045
              It would be better to read the original sources, for example V.G. Grabin, etc.

              That same Grabin, whose memoirs are not confirmed by the documents he signed?
              Memoirs:
              The absence of the tank made us suspend the release of the ZIS-6 first, and then completely remove the gun from production.
              Even today, writing about it is bitter and painful: in those days, when guns were taken from museums to the front, everything that could shoot, around 800 of modern powerful tank guns, were sent to re-melt in Martin. Such was the price of "departmental inconsistencies."

              Documents:
              ...in July-August 1941, five serial ZIS-6 guns were manufactured, after which their production was stopped due to the unreadiness of the heavy tank.

              Even taking into account the blanks, 800 ZIS-6s are not produced: according to Plant Certificate No. 92 of July 10, 1941, the plant cast only 213 barrel tubes and 215 breech blocks.

              Or you can recall how Grabin described in his memoirs the successful testing of pre-war 85-mm tank guns. Which, according to the documents, resulted in the 85-mm AU developing cracks in the breech of the first gun and the unbalanced second gun being sent for testing - because of which, when sent to the front, the experimental tank with Grabin's gun had to be rearmed with a turret from the KV.
              1. 0
                23 September 2024 12: 47
                Why compare the ZIS-2 towed anti-tank gun with the ZIS-6 tank gun?
                1. +2
                  23 September 2024 13: 05
                  Quote: Conrad1045
                  Why compare the ZIS-2 towed anti-tank gun with the ZIS-6 tank gun?

                  Because in the conversation about ZIS-2 you refer to Grabin's memoirs as the primary source. Which have been repeatedly criticized for not being in line with the documents.
                  Where is the guarantee that Grabin did not embellish the reality with the ZIS-2? These are not official documents, but memoirs, which initially serve to present themselves in the right light. In his memoirs, he was able to technically gloss over the issue of the development and adoption of the incapable F-22 gun, turning shots using simplified wartime technology into old "French" shells.
          2. 0
            30 September 2024 01: 19
            Alf With all due respect to you, Wikipedia is not much of an authority... wink
            1. Alf
              0
              30 September 2024 19: 31
              Quote: stankow
              Alf With all due respect to you, Wikipedia is not much of an authority... wink

              What is not authoritative in the number of guns produced and the indication of the factories that produced them?
    3. +3
      23 September 2024 11: 27
      Quote: Conrad1045
      Which of the marshals spoke out against the production of the ZIS-2, citing its "excessive impenetrability"?

      Nobody. Because the army continued to receive 85-mm anti-tank guns - anti-aircraft guns for direct fire, without coupling with PUAZO. And their armor penetration was even higher.
      The ZIS-2 was taken out of production for a completely different reason: of the 8513 76-mm divisional guns that the Red Army had on June 22.06.1941, 01.09.1941, the army had already lost 3094 guns by September 1941, 6463, and XNUMX guns by the end of XNUMX.
      On the other hand,
      ... already in July 1941, it was required to form 71 divisions (56 rifle divisions and 15 CD), in August - 110 divisions (85 divisions and 25 CD), in October - 74 rifle brigades.
      © "Artillery Supply in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45.", Moscow-Tula, GAU publishing house, 1977.
      So the ZIS-2 was eaten up by divisional guns. Without them, rifle units could not be sent to the front and, even despite the reduction of the SD's OShS, much more was needed than the available capacity could provide.
      1. +1
        23 September 2024 12: 41
        The ZIS-3 divisional gun had a different purpose, having anti-tank shells.
        1. +3
          23 September 2024 12: 50
          Quote: Conrad1045
          The ZIS-3 divisional gun had a different purpose, having anti-tank shells.

          This is what I am writing about: an expensive and difficult to manufacture specialized anti-tank gun was taken out of production in favor of a simpler and more widespread divisional gun for artillery regiments of rifle divisions. The front needed infantry to plug holes after the next breakthroughs and cauldrons. And without an artillery regiment, the combat value of a rifle division was small.
          The excessive armor penetration was invented later, so as not to explain the true reasons for the transition to 76 mm and the scale of the catastrophe of 1941.
  11. -4
    21 September 2024 18: 56
    It's a pity there are no 33-45 mm guns now,
    1. Alf
      +4
      21 September 2024 20: 00
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      It's a pity there are no 33-45 mm guns now,

      For what ?
      1. +2
        23 September 2024 02: 15
        Quote: Alf
        For what ?

        Towed anti-tank guns of this caliber are of course absolutely irrelevant now. But 37-45-mm automatic guns on ZSU and BMP, provided that modern ammunition is used, in my opinion, would be in demand.
        1. +1
          23 September 2024 14: 18
          As a weapon for the BMP, the bourgeoisie uses 35mm-50mm guns on modern-promising BMPs. With modern APFSDS and HE ammunition.
          1. +1
            23 September 2024 14: 20
            Quote: Zaurbek
            As a weapon for infantry fighting vehicles, the bourgeoisie uses 35mm-50mm guns on modern and promising infantry fighting vehicles.

            About serial Are you not confusing anything with the 50mm guns?
            1. 0
              23 September 2024 14: 45
              Northrop Grumman claims that the new 50-mm cannon will be equipped with the Griffin III armored fighting vehicle (BBM) from General Dynamics Land Systems, a prototype of which has already been demonstrated with these weapons, the German BBF KF41 Lynx from Rheinmetall and Raytheon, the Swedish CV90 in the BAE version Systems

              Thus, it can be assumed that the US Army and its NATO allies will gradually move away from weapons of light caliber 25 - 30 - mm used on light armored vehicles, replacing it with more powerful weapons of the caliber 50-mm.
              1. +1
                23 September 2024 14: 57
                Quote: Zaurbek
                Northrop Grumman says new 50mm cannon will be fitted

                You were asked about production cars.
                1. 0
                  23 September 2024 15: 11
                  I answer you:
                  the bourgeoisie uses modern-promisingx BMP
                  on modern ones 35mm-40mm, on prospective ones they plan 50mm
        2. Alf
          +2
          23 September 2024 19: 52
          Quote: Bongo
          Quote: Alf
          For what ?

          Towed anti-tank guns of this caliber are of course absolutely irrelevant now. But 37-45-mm automatic guns on ZSU and BMP, provided that modern ammunition is used, in my opinion, would be in demand.

          Maybe it would be much more promising to jump to 57mm? Which is actually what is happening.
  12. +1
    23 September 2024 13: 42
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Where is the guarantee that Grabin did not embellish the reality with the ZIS-2?
    The ZIS-2 was put into production again after the Battle of Kursk, where there was nothing to penetrate the armor of the Tigers and Panthers.
  13. +1
    23 September 2024 13: 46
    Quote: Alexey RA
    The anti-tank gun was discontinued in favor of a simpler and more widespread divisional gun
    Production of the ZIS-2 was suspended based on a report from Marshal Govorov, who was specially summoned from the front, and factory No. 172 began producing 45-caliber guns.
  14. +2
    23 September 2024 14: 17
    I think that calibers of 37mm and 45mm are quite applicable in autocannons for IFVs.
    1. Alf
      0
      23 September 2024 19: 55
      Quote: Zaurbek
      I think that calibers of 37mm and 45mm are quite applicable in autocannons for IFVs.

      That's exactly why they put 57mm on Barbariska. So that they wouldn't immediately start catching up and overtaking.
      If the Americans are talking about 50mm on promising equipment, then what's the point of dancing around 37 and 45mm?
      1. +1
        23 September 2024 20: 07
        You need to understand the "price" of this design weight....and who it can penetrate. And I think we just don't have autocannons. We got what we have. It's great, but it's not a fact that it's for an infantry fighting vehicle.
        1. Alf
          0
          23 September 2024 20: 15
          Quote: Zaurbek
          but it is not a fact that it is for infantry fighting vehicles.

          And for what ?
          1. 0
            23 September 2024 21: 20
            I don't know....you need to know the weight of the BM and know what the victims are? Maybe a lighter gun, more ammo...more armor....57mm is weak for a tank and, anyway, an ATGM is needed. And if you already have a cornet, then why 57mm? To destroy IFVs and light tanks and HE action, 37-50mm is enough.....APCs are powerful there.
            1. Alf
              0
              23 September 2024 21: 28
              Quote: Zaurbek
              57mm is weak for a tank

              And no one is going to shove it onto a tank.
              Quote: Zaurbek
              anyway, ATGM is needed. And if you already have a cornet, then why 57mm?

              Electronic warfare equipment will explain this to you.
              Quote: Zaurbek
              To destroy infantry fighting vehicles and light tanks, and the HE action of 37-50mm is enough.....

              We don't have a 50mm caliber, we have a 57. Why introduce a new shot, make a fuss?
              If they arm them with 50 mm, then, accordingly, they will also make protection against it. And what should our BMPs with a 37 mm pop gun do then? It will simply result in a situation where we introduce a 37 mm cannon, arm an APC and BMP with it, spend time, money on it, occupy factories and find out that on the Other Side there is a 50 mm cannon and everything must be started from the beginning, i.e. repeat the history of the creation of the Su-27.
              Remember the story of such a wonderful gun L7, after the appearance of which all our tanks ended up with thin skin and we had to urgently improvise.
              1. +1
                24 September 2024 10: 33
                That question is about the amount of ammunition that can be taken on board and the weight of the installation... but we need to increase the armor and install 57mm... And a modern 25mm APFSDS can penetrate all infantry fighting vehicles...
                1. Alf
                  0
                  24 September 2024 18: 49
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  .And a modern 25mm APFSDS can penetrate all infantry fighting vehicles...

                  Well, if you think about it this way, you can come to the conclusion that armor that is more bulletproof is not needed.
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  That question with the amount of ammunition that can be taken on board and the weight of the installation... and we need to increase the armor and install 57mm...

                  Then we can limit ourselves to the 30-mm 2A42, and then be surprised that our BMP and BTR are unarmed against the Western ones. It turns out to be a dilemma - either we install the 57-mm and get a vehicle on par, or we install the 30-mm and take out the corpses of the crew and landing party in trucks.
                  1. 0
                    24 September 2024 19: 28
                    No need for blah-blah. You have an infantry fighting vehicle...for example, the most protected one today is the Bradley. It weighs about 30-35 tons...will it handle a heavy module with 57mm and a normal ammo pack? Plus 57mm is not an AT caliber, you also need 2-4 Kornets...

                    Or we remove part of the armor and install 57mm...that's what I'm talking about.
                    The carrying capacity and mobility of the BMP bogie is finite.
                    1. Alf
                      +1
                      24 September 2024 19: 31
                      Quote: Zaurbek
                      No need for blah-blah. You have an infantry fighting vehicle...for example, the most protected one today is the Bradley. It weighs about 30-35 tons...will it handle a heavy module with 57mm and a normal ammo pack? Plus 57mm is not an AT caliber, you also need 2-4 Kornets...

                      Or we remove part of the armor and install 57mm...that's what I'm talking about.
                      The carrying capacity and mobility of the BMP bogie is finite.

                      You know better, said Barbariska...
                      1. 0
                        25 September 2024 14: 58
                        Will you convert all BPMs to MBT chassis? Good luck.
                        Such IFVs are also needed, but they are not a mass product.
      2. +2
        25 September 2024 10: 07
        Quote: Alf
        That's exactly why they put 57mm on Barbariska. So that they wouldn't immediately start catching up and overtaking.

        Not exactly. The point here is rather that there are no 37-45 mm guns and shells of that caliber left. For an IFV, a 57 mm round is not optimal, since it is quite large, and many shells will not fit in the vehicle.
        1. Alf
          0
          25 September 2024 18: 18
          Quote: Bongo
          a lot of shells won't fit in the car.

          One shot - one corpse. In addition, the range of the shot and the HE action.
          1. +3
            27 September 2024 11: 37
            Quote: Alf
            One shot - one corpse. In addition, the range of the shot and the HE action.

            It is very important for an IFV to be able to conduct prolonged suppressive fire, and here the number of shots and rate of fire are of great importance. In addition, an increase in the caliber of the HEFS does not lead to a directly proportional increase in the destructive effect.
            1. Alf
              0
              27 September 2024 18: 26
              Quote: Bongo
              and here the number of shots and the rate of fire are of great importance.

              Then why did the Swedes immediately jump from 90mm to 20mm on the CV-40? Or do they have a rubber turret?
              Quote: Bongo
              An increase in the caliber of the OFS does not lead to a directly proportional increase in the damaging effect.
              1. +2
                1 October 2024 06: 53
                Quote: Alf
                Then why did the Swedes immediately jump from 90mm to 20mm on the CV-40? Or do they have a rubber turret?

                Most of the ammunition is stored outside the turret. The 20mm is comparable in armor penetration to the 14,5mm. The 40mm allowed us to abandon the ATGM, which is difficult to use in a real battle with an IFV, unless of course the vehicle is stationary in a caponier. I believe that shots with 37-45mm shells can be optimal for solving most tasks on the battlefield.
                Quote: Bongo
                But 37-45 mm machine guns on ZSU and BMP, provided that modern ammunition is used, in my opinion, would be in demand.


                If you look at 40mm and 57mm rounds, you should pay attention to their weight and dimensions, despite the fact that their effective firing range will not differ greatly.

                Quote: Bongo
                An increase in the caliber of the OFS does not lead to a directly proportional increase in the damaging effect.


                Vasily, thank you for the table! But, as for the coefficient of filling of explosive shells, then, all other things being equal, in order to double the damage zone, the amount of explosives must be increased eightfold. In the case of the BMP cannon, the effect of 2-3 shots of 40 mm caliber will be higher than from one 57 mm.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  1 October 2024 18: 53
                  Quote: Bongo
                  thanks for the table!

                  Not at all, always happy to help.
                  Quote: Bongo
                  all other things being equal, for the affected area to grow by two times,

                  And what if you need to make a hole in something, some kind of shelter?
                  I actually think that shots with 37-45 mm shells can be optimal for solving most tasks on the battlefield.

                  I understand that you are an expert (I am not making fun of you, I truly respect you as an intelligent, decent and worthy opponent), but if the other side is planning a 50-mm gun, and not a 37-45, then there are serious grounds for this.
                  1. 0
                    24 October 2024 12: 23
                    Quote: Alf
                    On that side they are planning to have a 50mm gun, not a 37-45, which means there are serious grounds for this.

                    There have been no 37-45 mm ammunition or guns left on "the other side" for a long time. I don't know about 45 mm shells (I wouldn't be surprised if there are still some in warehouses), but we had 37 mm anti-aircraft guns on minesweepers and landing ships until recently. In addition, the promising 50 mm American round is much closer in characteristics to our 45 mm than to the much larger and heavier 57 mm. Objectively, as experience shows, the 40x365 mm round, originally developed for the modernized Bofors L70 anti-aircraft gun and used for firing from the 40 mm cannon of the CV-9040 infantry fighting vehicle, is capable of successfully solving most tasks on the battlefield and allows us to do without an ATGM.
  15. -1
    24 September 2024 11: 09
    Mass production of 57mm anti-tank guns became possible in 1943 after the necessary metalworking machines were received from the United States.

    More tales about machines from the USA without which "everything is lost". Again, we need to repeat the obvious:
    1. If there were no machines from the USA, then their place could have been taken by machines from Germany or at least from Japan.
    2. Without any machine tools from the USA, 57 mm guns were produced in 1941.
    3. If in 1943 they couldn’t do what they managed to do in 1941, then they could produce a 57 mm gun with a slightly shortened barrel (IS-1) and slightly lower characteristics, but much better than the 45 mm gun.
    4. They could have expanded the production of 57 mm cumulative ammunition for the ZIS-76 to replace the 3 mm cannon. Incidentally, these were produced for the 76 mm regimental cannon.
    There are still many alternatives, but it is clear that we could have done well without machine tools from the USA.
    1. +2
      30 September 2024 11: 42
      Quote: Kostadinov
      2. Without any machine tools from the USA, 57 mm guns were produced in 1941.

      So the factories could easily master a small series. With wild defects and the delivery of one product out of ten.
      But the Red Army needed large-scale divisional-level antitank weapons. A division for each rifle division, plus divisions in antitank antitank missiles, plus compensation for losses - at least 90% of the troops' stock for the year (in 1941, the "expenditure" of antitank weapons was 85% for six months).
      Quote: Kostadinov
      3. If in 1943 they couldn’t do what they managed to do in 1941, then they could produce a 57 mm gun with a slightly shortened barrel (IS-1) and slightly lower characteristics, but much better than the 45 mm gun.

      And here we smoothly approach the second question - traction. For the 45-mm anti-tank gun there are "Komsomol members". What is there for the 57-mm anti-tank gun in terms of traction that would allow transporting the gun with the ammo and crew under fire?
      Quote: Kostadinov
      4. They could have started production of 57 mm cumulative ammunition for the ZIS-76 in place of the 3 mm cannon.

      Yeah... like in real life - with explosions in the gun barrels due to problems with the fuses. Alas, but the "kuma" could only be made for the regimental shell with its 310 m/s muzzle velocity.
  16. PXL
    0
    26 September 2024 22: 10
    And regimental artillery was not used in anti-tank defense at all? If I remember correctly, the regimental guns' ammunition kit included the first armor-piercing shells, no?
    1. Alf
      +2
      27 September 2024 18: 29
      Quote from PXL
      If I remember correctly, the regimental guns' ammunition included the first armor-piercing shells, no?

      Both BBS and KS were included, so what?
      Quote from PXL
      And regimental artillery was not used at all in anti-tank defense?

      When it was hot.
      1. +1
        30 September 2024 11: 44
        Quote: Alf
        When it was hot.

        Dear M. Svirin, in his time he wrote about arming some IPTAs with regimental shells in 1943 - precisely because they had a cumulative projectile with a normally functioning fuse.
  17. -2
    29 September 2024 13: 34
    Yes, yes, nothing but shortcomings and failures. And the war was won only thanks to American machine tools and captured German guns. Which were great, had no flaws. laughing Fire Level 80s
  18. PXL
    0
    13 November 2024 13: 52
    There was also a 57-mm gun ChK-57-M1 - a development of the ChK-57 from the WWII period. It was forgotten. And Ch-23.