Friend, partner or competitor: who is China really for Russia

136
Friend, partner or competitor: who is China really for Russia

In early September, it became known that Chinese banks began to refuse to accept funds, not only if they come from Russia, but even if Russian names are indicated in the payment documents. In particular, Reported business newspaper Izvestia, citing business representatives. According to the publication, financial organizations from China are thus reinsuring themselves, fearing possible secondary sanctions.

Such cases have been recorded since mid-July – any connections with the Russian Federation, and sometimes even inscriptions in Cyrillic, become grounds for cancellation of payment. Because of this, importers are forced to prepare a full set of documents for transactions through third parties who could not be suspected of having connections with Russia.



This is further evidence that China is officially trying to comply with sanctions against Russia, fearing to fall under secondary sanctions. Despite statements about Russian-Chinese friendship, the Chinese do not intend to risk their banks and access to American markets, because business is above all else for them.

This raises the question: how should the relationship between Russia and China really be assessed? Is it friendship, business partnership, or a forced partnership in the context of global competition?

The most common myth about China


First of all, it should be noted that the image of China in Russia is mostly positive and to some extent mythical - the left sees it as the last stronghold of socialism ("socialism with Chinese characteristics"), the right gives it credit for the "new Chinese nationalism", and supporters of a multipolar world see it as a power that opposes the United States.

The most common myth about China is the idea of ​​it as the “last bastion of socialism.” The popular definition of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” (as the Communist Party of China calls its ideology) overstates the role of socialism. In fact, China’s economy has long been part of the global economy.

Since the 80s, China has been integrated into the capitalist system with semi-peripheral status by the will of its political class. Beginning in 1992, the government began opening new channels for foreign direct investment, and China became more dependent on the global economy – by 2008, non-state enterprises produced 72% of GDP, and state enterprises – 28%.

Some Sinologists note that the term “socialist market economy” is state capitalism, a turn to which was carried out by Deng Xiaoping, however, despite the fact that in the PRC the state has a greater influence on the business community than in other countries, it is difficult to call this state capitalism (which, in essence, differs little from socialism), since a market economy is always the development of private capitalism.

China is seeking to gain control over key natural resources around the world. These include bauxite, copper, nickel, beryllium, titanium, and rare earth elements. Chinese state-owned companies build facilities in developing countries, build up debt dependency, and then take control of one or another infrastructure or raw material resource as payment*.

The Chinese socio-economic system is not a specifically Chinese socialism, or socialism at all. Rather, it is a specifically Asian capitalism with a strong element of authoritarianism in state governance**.

In choosing economic partners, the Chinese government does not base its decisions on ideological considerations, but is guided by the principles of potential benefits from cooperation for the development of the country. China sees its civilizational state in relations with the rest of the world as “global competition.”

Russia – friend, partner or competitor?


Relations between Russia and China should also be considered in the context of global competition. It is no secret that China, despite its statements about friendship and partnership with Moscow, complies with US sanctions against it.

In 2024, domestic importers faced a problem that seriously affected transactions between Russia and China - three leading Chinese banks, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, China Construction Bank and Bank of China, decided to stop accepting payments from Russian banks. This decision was caused by the high risk of secondary sanctions being applied to Chinese banks by the United States.

Also, recently, importers from China have been refusing to supply so-called dual-use products to Russia until payments are confirmed (prepayments). We are talking about electronics, industrial equipment and other technology, logistics companies said. The reason was the new package of August sanctions, which included 46 organizations from the PRC, as well as thorough checks of payments by Chinese banks.

Moreover, now Russian names (even those not subject to sanctions) in payment documents, any connections with the Russian Federation, and sometimes just inscriptions in Cyrillic become grounds for cancellation of payment in Chinese banks. This measure is clearly unfriendly towards Russia and Russians in general, and therefore there is no point in talking about friendship between the Russian Federation and the PRC.

China complies with sanctions against Russia because it benefits it – China’s trade turnover with the US in 2023 was $664 billion, trade turnover with the EU was $782,9 billion, and the volume of trade with Russia in 2023 was $240 billion. And since the Chinese “comrades,” when building relations with other countries, proceed not from ideological but from economic and pragmatic considerations, maintaining good relations with the US and Europe is much more important for them than maintaining good relations with Russia.

In any case, Russia will not go anywhere - Beijing understands perfectly well that for the Russian Federation, relations with China in the context of confrontation with the West are of strategic importance, since in 2023, according to official data alone, China accounted for 32% of foreign trade.

At the same time, Chinese businessmen are making money on the military conflict in Ukraine, selling dual-use products to both sides of the conflict, such as UAVs, making money on this, and strengthening their influence in Central Asia, taking advantage of the situation, gradually absorbing the countries of Central Asia. The weakening of Russia, therefore, only plays into the hands of the Chinese "comrades".

Conclusion


In Russia, officials often complain that the West is rewriting history and forget the lessons of history, but in Russia the situation is not much better in this regard, because history is also rewritten depending on political trends. Nowadays, few people remember that China has historically never been an ally of Russia, which the blogger "Atomic Cherry" correctly pointed out:

"China. The Qing Empire at the turn of the century before last. The Russian Empire invades Chinese territory as part of the Eight-Power Alliance and takes part in the occupation of Beijing. The events of that period, to put it mildly, are perceived by the Chinese as a national tragedy - and they remember them extremely well. Then comes the Cold War. The PRC acts as an open and active enemy of the USSR - both military and ideological (the intensity of anti-Chinese propaganda in the Soviets was, by the way, more intense than anti-American). Beijing views the Soviet Union as its main enemy in the coming world war, actively opposing Moscow wherever possible - from Indochina to Africa and Afghanistan... And here's the question - what can go wrong if you decide to make an ally without mutual consent a country that has viewed you as a competitor, rival or adversary for the past century?"

Indeed, historically Russia and China have never been either allies or friends, and given the above facts, there is no reason to assume that even today China views Moscow as a friend. At best, as a business partner, but more likely as a competitor that can be stabbed in the back at the first opportunity.

Notes:
* N. V. Osokina. China - socialism with Chinese characteristics or the path to hegemony? // Problems of economics and management: socio-cultural, legal and organizational aspects: a collection of articles by graduate students and teachers of KuzSTU. - Kemerovo: KuzSTU, 2021.
** Ibid.
136 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +1
    15 September 2024 04: 28
    since they compete in different markets and geopolitically, China's rise was made possible by Russia's direct support, the Chinese should never fear them. also, to avoid sanctions, they should create in northern china companies working only with russia, which would intermediate activities from different companies; this way, the sanctioned entities wouldn't care and the others won't risk anything.
    Since they compete in different markets and geopolitically, China's rise was made possible by Russia's direct support, the Chinese should never be afraid of them. In addition, to avoid sanctions, they should establish companies in northern China that only deal with Russia, which will be intermediary organizations for different companies. In this way, the sanctioned entities will not care, and others will not risk anything.
  2. +10
    15 September 2024 04: 29
    Indeed, historically, Russia and China have never been either allies or friends, and given the above facts, there is no reason to assume that even today the PRC perceives Moscow as a friend.

    Yes, it already happened:
    Russian with Chinese brothers forever.
    The unity of peoples and races is growing stronger.
    A simple man straightened his shoulders
    A simple man walks with a song
    Stalin and Mao are listening to you.

    The song "Moscow-Beijing" was written in 1949 to celebrate the founding of communist China. It became especially popular between 1951 and 1955, during the "great friendship" between China and the USSR.

    Today, China is a situational partner for us as long as Russian raw materials and resources go to Beijing at dumping prices, and the United States threatens both Beijing and Moscow.
    I don't know if we should place great hopes on someone who has chosen to wait on the river bank...
    1. +1
      15 September 2024 05: 15
      Business comes first for them.

      At the first opportunity you can stab someone in the back.

      East is a delicate matter !
    2. +22
      15 September 2024 06: 43
      True. We are a source of raw materials for them. A country from which they can take advantage of the current situation. Make money, finally. There can be no talk of any partnership, friendship, etc.
      1. +6
        15 September 2024 20: 16
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        A country from which you can take advantage of the current situation. Make money, finally. There can be no talk of any partnership, friendship, etc.

        And this is in both directions. The introduction of duties on Ali Express, the constant increase in duties and fees on industrial goods, the introduction and increase of the recycling fee (+85% in October!). China reasonably perceives this as a consistent anti-Chinese policy limiting China's ability to sell us its goods. And at the same time we hear groans and complaints about the greedy Chinese from our capitalists...
      2. +1
        16 September 2024 08: 22
        True. We are a source of raw materials for them.
        [Quote] [/ quote]
        .... ... and the sales market. What would we do without Chinese consumer goods and even equipment, machines, computers.
    3. +15
      15 September 2024 09: 28
      China is a situational partner for us

      And why, exactly, should China be inflamed with friendship towards us? Let me remind you - for the Communist Party of the PRC, all our leaders are outright traitors who betrayed the cause of socialism and destroyed the first socialist state in the world. And our bourgeois is no better than the Western bourgeois. Accordingly, the attitude...

      Comrade Grozny also wrote:

      And in other lands you will see for yourself, evil is badly made evil: there is not according to the local! Then you, with your evil custom, approved the traitors to love: but in other lands they do not like Israelis: they are executed, and thus they are affirmed.
      And torment, and persecution, and death of the manifold were not intended for anyone; and he remembered treason and sorcery, otherwise such dogs are executed everywhere ...
      1. +8
        15 September 2024 09: 31
        Quote: paul3390
        Why, exactly, should China be inflamed with friendship towards us? Let me remind you - for the Communist Party of the PRC, all our leaders are outright traitors who betrayed the cause of socialism and destroyed the world's first socialist state. And our bourgeois is no better than the Western bourgeois. Accordingly, the attitude...

        And there shouldn't be!!! There should be no trust in those who betrayed the ideas of their fathers and grandfathers.
        Turncoats and traitors never enjoyed the trust of others, especially the weak-willed and empty-talkers.
        1. +5
          15 September 2024 10: 05
          Whose trust are we talking about? The Chinese bourgeoisie, who betrayed Mao's cause?
          1. +4
            15 September 2024 10: 17
            Quote from Sumotori_380
            Whose trust are we talking about? The Chinese bourgeoisie, who betrayed Mao's cause?

            What are we talking about? Even the IVS did not deny private property in the USSR in the form of collective farms, cooperatives and artels. As for the bourgeoisie of China:
            In the PRC, as in any socialist country, the land, its mineral wealth and industrial enterprises belong to the people, and only a small part in relation to state property is in the hands of private owners, therefore in China there are no large owners, and the main classes are peasants, workers, merchants and intellectuals.

            Unlike our bourgeoisie, who privatized the subsoil in cooperation with foreign owners from far from friendly NATO countries.
            Quote from Sumotori_380
            Who is a socialist in the Chinese CCP now?

            The main socialist is Xi Jinping. And the Chinese have not abolished the death penalty for corruption, the maximum personal income tax is 45%. As for VAT -
            Value-added tax in China is levied on the cost of goods and services at each stage of their production and sale. Rates in 2024 also depend on the type of goods or services, there are three of them: 13%, 9%, and 6%
            1. +6
              15 September 2024 10: 33
              The death penalty for corruption - a sign of socialism? Not to mention that they most likely don't execute you because you're corrupt, and you're corrupt because they execute you. It's just a means of bureaucratic struggle. If you lose, the fact of corruption will be brought to light. If you win, you can continue to decompose.
              1. +1
                15 September 2024 10: 36
                Quote from Sumotori_380
                Is the death penalty for corruption a sign of socialism?

                a sign of socialism - from each according to his ability, to each according to his work. And the death penalty is an exceptional measure of social protection of society from parasites and scoundrels who will NEVER be able to repeat what they did.
              2. 0
                15 September 2024 15: 41
                The death penalty in China for corruption is imposed after a certain threshold is exceeded (from memory, the damage is close to $0,5 billion).
                Taking into account the amount and the fact that there are many adjustment points (how much was actively returned, how actively cooperated, etc.), then in the end, usually 2-4 decisions are made per year for “implementation” (at the bottom, clarification that in fact it is much less)

                Here it is more precise

                "Where is the line drawn for the death penalty for corrupt officials?

                China could see more death sentences handed down to corrupt officials as Xi Jinping's anti-corruption campaign expands into lucrative sectors and uncovered graft proceeds rise.

                The latest debate in China's legal community over capital punishment standards has erupted after a court in Inner Mongolia upheld the death sentence of a local official who pleaded guilty to embezzling more than 3 billion yuan (US$422 million) in total.

                Since Xi Jinping came to power in late 2012, death sentences in corruption cases have rarely been carried out.

                It is only the third known case of officials being given the death sentence in the past decade.

                The "death line" for officials can start with bribes exceeding one billion yuan. (About 12,5 billion rubles).

                The one billion yuan red line is a rough threshold, and the final decision on whether to impose the death penalty depends on many other factors, including the damage the crime has caused to the country and society, and mitigating circumstances such as a sincere admission of guilt, expression of remorse, and efforts to return the proceeds of crime.
            2. 0
              15 September 2024 10: 33
              We have exactly the same with VAT. Only the rates are different - 0, 10 and 20. Based on this, do we have more socialism or not?
              1. 0
                15 September 2024 10: 37
                Quote from Sumotori_380
                We have exactly the same thing with VAT

                We have a VAT of 20%, and in some places it is zero... Where production is developing...
                1. +1
                  15 September 2024 10: 41
                  And? How does the size of VAT relate to socialism?
            3. +1
              15 September 2024 10: 36
              In many countries, the personal income tax is more than 45 percent. Does this mean that they have socialism?
              1. +1
                15 September 2024 10: 39
                Quote from Sumotori_380
                In many countries, personal income tax is higher than 45 percent. Does this mean they have socialism?

                No! The signs of socialism are different.
                If you have any questions of this kind, please contact Yandex or Google...
                1. +1
                  15 September 2024 10: 40
                  So why did you focus on the amount of personal income tax then?
                  1. 0
                    15 September 2024 10: 41
                    Quote from Sumotori_380
                    So why did you focus on the amount of personal income tax then?

                    For comparison ...
            4. 0
              15 September 2024 10: 39
              The sign of socialism is the nature of the distribution of national wealth. In the absence of free medicine and universal pension provision, a large share of state property is a sign of state capitalism and nothing more.
            5. 0
              17 September 2024 08: 51
              At least 78 percent of GDP in the PRC is in the private sector, it employs at least several times more people than the public sector. Private property is protected by the Constitution of the PRC. There are many dollar millionaires in the PRC, and in terms of the number of billionaires, perhaps only the United States is inferior. In the USSR, cooperative property was considered a type of socialist property, along with state property. There was no separate artel property, it was part of collective farm-cooperative property. This included the property of collective farms (some of them were quite officially called agricultural artels until the end of the 60s), industrial cooperation (industrial artels, prospecting artels, etc.), which was mostly curtailed by the end of the 50s, with the exception of prospecting artels and folk crafts artels, consumer cooperation, which also had its own enterprises both in the sphere of production and in the spheres of trade and procurement, plus the property of housing and garage cooperatives, but this was at a later period. Gorbachev's cooperatives "are something else.") As for the various non-cooperative individual artisans, shoemakers, junk dealers, private practitioners, the few remaining individual peasants, etc., they were considered people engaged in individual labor activity on a permanent basis or in their free time from their main work, and the property they used was considered personal, not private.
            6. +2
              17 September 2024 09: 55
              Rates in 2024 also depend on the type of goods or services, there are three of them: 13%, 9%, and 6%.

              And what does Nabulikha predict? It seems like 19, "but there will be adjustments"...
              This is how she "fights" inflation, making loans for enterprises "horse-sized", although inflation doesn't know about it...
              Next, about "friendship and cooperation". Yes, there was a factory called "Druzhba" (I had a sweater with its tag on the collar made of multi-colored letters in Russian when I was a child), but there was also Damansky and Mao's quotations, which a wild crowd waved in front of our border guards... Until it was covered with fire from MLRS...
              In other words, that outpost on Damansky is the forerunner of Sudzhi...
              And as the icing on the cake:
      2. +2
        15 September 2024 10: 00
        It remains to recall Fidel's phrase "Are there any Marxists among you?" Who is a socialist in the Chinese CPC now?
        1. +3
          15 September 2024 10: 08
          This question comes from the unwillingness to read Chinese documents. But at the last congress, Comrade Xi seemed to have explained everything clearly. He said something like this:

          When the CPC took power, the country had neither industry nor, accordingly, its main support - the proletariat. Mao tried to build socialism in a thoroughly peasant country, contrary to the classics of Marxism - naturally, nothing worked out.

          Circumstances developed in such a way that we were able to solve this issue at the expense of the capitalists. And now - we have both industry and the proletariat. The BASIS has been created, and - we can begin building socialism.

          Note - they did not postulate that they ALREADY had socialism. They are only going to build it... When the conditions for this have arisen.
          1. +6
            15 September 2024 10: 14
            They won’t build anything, they have ordinary capitalism.
            1. 0
              15 September 2024 10: 17
              I see. Comrade Xi is supposedly less credible than your expert opinion?
              1. +7
                15 September 2024 10: 22
                And Comrade Xi is not a father or a brother, so that we should believe him? They will build it - then we will believe. But for now these are nothing more than words. There is nothing more frivolous than the promises of a politician
          2. +1
            17 September 2024 10: 25
            Pavel, "carbon copy" of I.V. Stalin's speech:
            - We didn't have industry. Now we have it.
            -There was no machine tool industry. Now there is.
            -There was no aviation. Now there is.
            -There was no auto industry. Now there is.
            What words need to be replaced to get the speech of a "St. Petersburg" person?
            1. +1
              17 September 2024 11: 43
              Quote: Dingo
              What words need to be replaced to get the speech of a "St. Petersburg" person?

              It's easier to substitute words into a phrase:
              We had..., now we don't.
      3. +1
        15 September 2024 10: 11
        it wasn't "your leaders", it was byzantine traitors like hruscev and gorbusha, that hurt you even more. brejnev himself was a compromise - someone from the mafia which wasn't byzantine himself - but it was corrupted, since the byzantins won't let good people come too close. you have the same enemies.
        it's not "your leaders", it's byzantine traitors like khrushchev and gorbusha who hurt you even more. brezhnev himself was a compromise - someone from the mafia, which itself was not byzantine - but it was corrupt, because byzantines don't let good people get too close. you have the same enemies.
      4. +3
        15 September 2024 13: 27
        Quote: paul3390
        I remember - for the Communist Party of China, all our leaders are outright traitors who have betrayed the cause of socialism

        And the Chinese Communist Party itself hasn't betrayed the cause of socialism? They live next to our traitors in London, there are a hundred times more Chinese children in the West than ours.
    4. +1
      15 September 2024 14: 32
      You are right, I agree with you.
    5. +1
      22 September 2024 08: 37
      China is not our friend or ally, but a great southern neighbor. China will be the next to be attacked by the US and the West. There are many reasons. Therefore, China does not benefit from Russia's defeat and collapse. It is simply interest and business.
      If the opportunity arises, they will squeeze out the Far East and Siberia. Look at the Chinese maps.
  3. +3
    15 September 2024 05: 34
    The author writes everything correctly. We need to break off relations with China, otherwise they are making money on the SVO. And also expel all Central Asian migrants from Russia, including those who received citizenship in the last 10 years.
    1. +9
      15 September 2024 06: 44
      How to break? We are critically dependent on China.
      1. +2
        15 September 2024 07: 34
        How to break?

        Actually, it was sarcasm. But there is a grain of truth in every joke. If the country's leadership manages to reach an agreement with the US on terms acceptable to us, then we can break off relations with China. We won't even be able to, but we will be obliged to do so under our obligations to the Americans for concluding peace in Ukraine, in which the US, for example, will de facto recognize the newly acquired territories in Ukraine. Beijing is probably ready for such a scenario, but will not be able to do anything about it.
        1. +3
          15 September 2024 09: 38
          Quote: smart fellow
          Actually, it was sarcasm.

          But it’s not clear right away... Of the available emoticons, I use the following to emphasize sarcasm and irony: wassat и feel
          Or completely understandable:

          Our people are stern and don't understand jokes...
          1. 0
            15 September 2024 12: 26
            Our people are stern and don't understand jokes...

            This was a test. I think that most people understood it correctly judging by the small number of + and -. And they didn't upvote or downvote because they weren't sure if others would understand them correctly.
      2. +8
        15 September 2024 08: 15
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        How to break? We are critically dependent on China.


        Yes, in the current conditions it will be a disaster for Russia if the PRC refuses to supply us with goods and technologies... it was necessary to build the economy and politics so ineptly that we became dependent on our neighbor.

        But there is a way out, if we do not take the option of restoring relations with the West after the SVO, then all that remains is to revive industry and start producing goods ourselves, yes, there will be a technological lag behind our neighbors, we will have to follow the path of the DPRK/Iran, remember the experience of the USSR, which produced everything itself, but in the long term, it will all pay off, Russia will retain sovereignty and statehood + will be able to return and maintain influence in the post-Soviet space within the framework of the EAEU... this will certainly not be the USSR, but an unification like the EU is also quite good, the main thing is to connect neighbors with common economic projects, then there will be dependence on each other + the standard of living in the unification as a whole will grow.

        And if we continue the current model, where the emphasis is purely on trade in Chinese goods within the EAEU, where the main project is “One Belt One Road” under the leadership of China, where the role of Russia is a supplier of raw materials and resources for the East (it’s great that they replaced the West with the East, what has changed?) – then the role of Russia will continue to decline, we will have to abandon our former ambitions, and pay for “help”... but I’m afraid that the price will be too high.
        1. +6
          15 September 2024 08: 21
          You see, the Chinese are definitely keeping us on the "suck". Banks, now there are also recommendations (for now, recommendations) about the inadmissibility of conducting production with Chinese business on the territory of Russia. No, themselves, only themselves. We lagged behind the West a hundred years ago. And? True, now society and relations are completely different
          1. +5
            15 September 2024 10: 10
            We rapidly reduced this lag in the 20s and 30s precisely by purchasing Western technologies. And now China has clearly stated that it does not intend to share technologies with us.
            1. man
              +1
              15 September 2024 11: 01
              Quote from Sumotori_380
              We rapidly reduced this lag in the 20s and 30s precisely by purchasing Western technologies. And now China has clearly stated that it does not intend to share technologies with us.

              Just like the West, even during a passionate friendship and a folding seat in the "seven".
              We'll have to do it ourselves, all by ourselves... and hope for help from our intelligence officers in "industrial espionage"... Otherwise, death, the legacy of the great USSR is not endless...
              1. +6
                15 September 2024 11: 04
                The West built quite a few automobile factories here in its time. China has declared that it does not plan to do anything similar. Feel the difference
                1. man
                  +1
                  15 September 2024 11: 15
                  Quote from Sumotori_380
                  The West built quite a few automobile factories here in its time. China has declared that it does not plan to do anything similar. Feel the difference

                  I don't argue, but the West didn't sell the technology either. Have you forgotten how the "pooped" bankrupt Opel wasn't even sold?
                  1. 0
                    15 September 2024 12: 35
                    Well, the story is a bit different with it, GM changed their minds about selling Opel in principle, and sold it only five years or even more later.
                    For example, Infineon Technologies really refused to sell, but again it is not clear what was more important, politics or business, the shareholders of Infineon Technologies did not understand what kind of development of the company the Russian side was proposing.
                    1. man
                      +3
                      15 September 2024 15: 06
                      Quote: Oldrover
                      Well, the story is a bit different with it, GM changed their minds about selling Opel in principle, and sold it only five years or even more later.
                      For example, Infineon Technologies really refused to sell, but again it is not clear what was more important, politics or business, the shareholders of Infineon Technologies did not understand what kind of development of the company the Russian side was proposing.

                      The main and common thing in these cases is that they didn’t sell to us sad .
                      They can come up with any reason... But the goal is one, to turn Russia into an obedient gas station, depriving it of scientists, engineers and highly skilled workers am
                      1. -1
                        15 September 2024 15: 28
                        . And the goal is one: to turn Russia into an obedient gas station, depriving it of scientists, engineers and highly skilled workers.


                        Then there would be no car factories, no joint projects in the aviation industry, energy, etc.
                        In my opinion, the difference between the West and China is that the West is not a single entity, but a bunch of different clans, corporations, etc., with their own interests and fierce competition with each other. But China seems to me to be a monolith.
                      2. man
                        +2
                        15 September 2024 15: 48
                        Then there would be no car factories, no joint projects in the aviation industry, energy, etc.
                        In my opinion, the difference between the West and China is that the West is not a single entity, but a bunch of different clans, corporations, etc., with their own interests and fierce competition with each other. But China seems to me to be a monolith.

                        But there was no technology transfer, "screwdriver production". And now this opportunity is lost.
                        With the collapse of the USSR, everything gradually changes, remember at least the attack on Iraq. Then Schroeder and Chirac could at least object. And what now? By the way, do you remember the story with Strauss-Kahn? And the assassination attempt on the Prime Minister of Slovakia? It's strange that Orban survived... The US is gradually becoming the master of the West sad
                      3. +2
                        15 September 2024 19: 51

                        But there was no technology transfer, "screwdriver production".

                        Well, not exactly, for example, a joint venture to produce engines for the superjet, joint production with Siemens, etc. Or Intel at its peak had almost a thousand people in Russia in development and research centers, in Nizhny Novgorod about 600 people, engaged in computer vision, high-performance computing, etc.
                      4. +1
                        15 September 2024 19: 58

                        But there was no technology transfer, "screwdriver production".

                        Well, not exactly, for example, a joint venture to produce engines for the superjet, joint production with Siemens, etc. Or Intel at its peak had almost a thousand people in Russia in development and research centers, in Nizhny Novgorod about 600 people, engaged in computer vision, high-performance computing, etc.
                        In fact, cooperation grew in many industries, as did the transfer and flow of technologies; this was an inevitable process.
                        But this is not because the West is kind, it simply does not work differently, investments, outsourcing, moving production, because competition requires cutting costs, and the greed of owners is growing (like the example with Boeing), but China looks completely different, although it may also be forced to "share technologies" if the crisis presses.
                      5. man
                        +2
                        15 September 2024 22: 49
                        What's the point of remembering if it's all lost...
                        Now, even if we go for a peace settlement, the States will examine every deal between the Europeans and us under a microscope and block it if something makes them wary; they won’t sell us anything serious. sad
                        And what happened is a drop in the ocean for a country like ours... That's why I never tire of repeating that we must do it ourselves while there are still people left who can pass on their experience to the youth, then it will be too late. You probably think that I care about myself, I assure you, this is not so. I have been a pensioner for a long time, although I work, but I can hardly teach anything serious, systems engineering is developing too quickly sad I just really want to see how the country starts to develop, so that I can die at least a little calm for it and my daughters.
                      6. -1
                        15 September 2024 23: 00
                        That is why I never tire of repeating that we must do it ourselves while there are still people left who can pass on their experience to the youth; later it will be too late.


                        Do everything ourselves, no country in the world has the resources for this, even a “simple modern car” requires millions of engineering man-hours, we need to find technological niches and integrate in such a way that the world cannot simply refuse.
                2. man
                  0
                  15 September 2024 11: 21
                  Quote from Sumotori_380
                  The West built quite a few automobile factories here in its time. China has declared that it does not plan to do anything similar. Feel the difference

                  However, China is much better for us than India, which pays for our raw materials with its useless papers...
                  1. +2
                    15 September 2024 11: 22
                    And how does China pay?
                    1. man
                      +2
                      15 September 2024 11: 24
                      Quote from Sumotori_380
                      And how does China pay?

                      Indians get a lot of things, even if at "crazy" prices, practically for free.
                  2. +4
                    15 September 2024 11: 22
                    So, it seems that de-dollarization of payments was not India’s idea?
                    1. man
                      +7
                      15 September 2024 11: 26
                      Quote from Sumotori_380
                      So, it seems that de-dollarization of payments was not India’s idea?

                      Yes, this is our own domestic cretinism. smile sad
              2. -2
                15 September 2024 22: 57
                and hope for help from our intelligence officers in "industrial espionage"...


                Look, in 22, a national project was adopted to build a 28 nm factory by 2030. Let's say intelligence stole all the documentation from ASML and TSMC. How long would it take to figure it out and do something about it? You can indirectly calculate. TSMC recently reported that they were stalling on building a second factory in the US and postponed the opening https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/19/tech/tsmc-taiwan-arizona-project-delay-intl-hnk/index.html
                They built the first factory in four years, taking into account that they know how to build such a factory, have experience, have money, etc. I will make a bold assumption that even if you steal all the documentation, it will take at least twice as long as TSMC needed. That is, at least eight years, during which time the world electronics will go even further. In my opinion, the idea of ​​​​mixing everything with imports in a capitalist country competing with other capitalist countries is initially a failure and a path to technological backwardness and falling into a “one-sided” dependence on either China, or the West, or both at once.
                And then, it would seem, why do we need intelligence in this matter? We could, for example, buy a series of Cannon or Nikon cameras, disassemble them down to the last screw, and try to make a competitive product.
        2. +2
          15 September 2024 10: 08
          What has changed? Cash flows have decreased. China is not ready to buy raw materials at the prices at which Europe took them
        3. man
          +6
          15 September 2024 10: 48
          Russia's role is as a supplier of raw materials and resources for the East (it's great that they changed the West to the East, what changed?)
          price
        4. +1
          15 September 2024 12: 39
          then all that remains is to revive industry and start producing goods ourselves, yes, there will be a technological lag behind our neighbors, we will have to follow the path of the DPRK/Iran, remember the experience of the USSR, which produced everything itself, but in the long term it will all pay off,


          I wish I could understand how this could be done in the modern capitalist world with modern technological progress and modern division of labor. Even the USSR, despite its technological independence, was forced to buy and do a lot in cooperation, for example, the auto industry, both AvtoVAZ and Kamaz.
        5. 0
          15 September 2024 13: 35
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          Yes, in the current conditions it will be a disaster for Russia if the PRC refuses to supply us with goods and technologies... it was necessary to build the economy and politics so ineptly that we became dependent on our neighbor.

          Well, if import substitution in 2014 had not worked on the principle - we steal money, and in return we get scribbles with excuses - then there would not have been such dependence. With the stolen money we could have built a second economy, and with the money taken out to Belgium we could have created autarky and not depend on anyone
        6. +2
          15 September 2024 15: 38
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          We changed from West to East, what changed?

          Amendment
          It wasn't us who changed! We were changed. They refused to trade with us.
          That is why we found ourselves facing China and other Indias...
        7. 0
          17 September 2024 10: 47
          Alexander - not under this government...
      3. 0
        15 September 2024 09: 23
        We are critically dependent on China

        And who on the planet today does not critically depend on it? what
        1. +3
          15 September 2024 09: 25
          Yes, all countries that are not waging war. Which can survive for some time, get something from Taiwan, other countries of the South-East.
          1. +2
            15 September 2024 13: 04
            Quote from: dmi.pris1
            Yes, all countries that are not waging war. Which can survive for some time, get something from Taiwan, other countries of the South-East.

            The Western bloc has a large number of countries that give them trade jackpots.
            EU+USA+Japan+Taiwan+South Korea+Australia and others. This is a very large part of the world economy that can spin on its own. As long as resources are available. And there are no problems with their access, even through Ukraine everything flows and is sold. Shutting off China will hit consumer goods and force them to tighten their belts. But they can survive.
  4. +13
    15 September 2024 05: 36
    China buys resources from Russia (electric energy, gas, timber, other raw materials) several times cheaper than Russia sold to Europe before the sanctions, before the SVO. As far as I know - up to 5 times for some types.
    He already sells his own at almost European prices.
    So China's attitude towards Russia is like that of a landowner towards a serf - it needs to be kept from dying, but in no case should it get out of control.
    That is why, in all the global turmoil, China is more of a strategic partner of the US and Europe than of Russia.
    1. +6
      15 September 2024 09: 44
      Quote: Vladimir-TTT
      So, China's attitude towards Russia is like that of a landowner towards a serf.

      Simple good And the attitude of the Russian government and officials towards the Russian people has become the level of slave owner (feudal lord)/slave (serf)
  5. +15
    15 September 2024 06: 12
    I remember not long ago there was a loud "Hurray!" on these pages for Russian-Chinese friendship and how now, we and China will show everyone!
    I wonder if life has taught the enthusiastic anything???
    1. +13
      15 September 2024 07: 54
      I remember not long ago there was a loud "Hurray!" on these pages for Russian-Chinese friendship and how now, we and China will show everyone!
      laughing It was, it was.. Now it's about the same, only in relation to Iran, Russia and Iran are brothers forever, and before: the West will help us, the West is with us! And now the opposite has happened: the West is not with us, China is not a friend, comrade or brother.. Soon it will affect Iran too.. And Turkey, I forgot.. There was also delight about Russian-Turkish friendship, until the Turks started shooting down our planes.. laughing
      1. man
        +8
        15 September 2024 11: 47
        Yes, I forgot about Turkey. There was also enthusiasm about Russian-Turkish friendship, until the Turks started shooting down our planes.. laughing
        In fact, we bravely didn't buy their plasticine tomatoes for a whole year. And we didn't buy them until the Americans tried to knock off Erdogan. Then our guys decided that the American successor didn't suit us any more than the current one and even actually saved him. By the way, as it turned out, it was not in vain, we get a lot of things from Europe through Turkey. They are making money, of course, but in this all countries are showing rare international solidarity, even Kazakhstan and Armenia smile By the way, I heard that the Turks have lower prices smile
    2. -4
      15 September 2024 09: 47
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      I remember not long ago there was a loud "Hurray!" on these pages for Russian-Chinese friendship and how now, we and China will show everyone!

      Hooray! It never sounded loud here, but there was admiration for the hard work, persistence and perseverance of the Chinese.
      Back in the 90s and early 2000s, we looked askance at the inhabitants of the Celestial Empire and grimaced as we looked at the traders in Chinese markets selling everything and everyone for next to nothing...
      1. +1
        15 September 2024 19: 22
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Hooray! It's never been loud here before

        It was a "Hurray!" to the eternal friendship and love between our countries.
        Hard work and perseverance - that was another department.
    3. man
      +6
      15 September 2024 11: 12
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      I remember not long ago there was a loud "Hurray!" on these pages for Russian-Chinese friendship and how now, we and China will show everyone!
      I wonder if life has taught the enthusiastic anything???

      In Soviet times, a regular school had four algebra and two geometry lessons a week. We need to bring them back, mathematics also develops logical thinking!
      We are breeding generations of idiots and it is our fault, not theirs!
      1. +4
        15 September 2024 12: 42
        And even now in high school there is more or less the same workload in mathematics, and the Unified State Exam in mathematics is significantly more difficult (if you go for the maximum score) than the exam that I had in mathematics in high school.
        In my opinion, the school curriculum now is more complex and intensive than it was in Soviet times, another thing is that the motivation to study, again, in my opinion, is lower on average among the current generation.
        1. man
          -1
          15 September 2024 15: 29
          Quote: Oldrover
          And even now in high school there is more or less the same workload in mathematics, and the Unified State Exam in mathematics is significantly more difficult (if you go for the maximum score) than the exam that I had in mathematics in high school.

          I don't know about now, but 12 years ago my youngest got 55 on the Unified State Exam in mathematics. When I found out that the maximum score was 100, I made a scene, like, why not 100? To which she replied that these were the best scores in mathematics at school. My wife was on the school's parent committee, she confirmed it.
          If Now the school curriculum is more complex and intensive than it was in Soviet times, then I am absolutely delighted smile !
          Another thing is that, in my opinion, the motivation for studying among the current generation is, on average, lower.
          In my time, parents were great at raising motivation with slaps, a very effective method, for some reason unpopular now
  6. +5
    15 September 2024 06: 26
    I agree with the author. But what does not distract China from its construction? It is that they do not drag their past with dirt. After all, we spend many billions of rubles on this. Just how much does cinema devour. Going together with the past is always the most reliable path.
    1. -2
      15 September 2024 10: 13
      So the movie will be made anyway - if not this, then something else
  7. +6
    15 September 2024 06: 39
    There are two players in the Great Game. There were two previous episodes when a third tried to join. The Russians and Anglo-Saxons united against France and Germany. Now China is trying to join the Game.
    Let's consider the configurations of possible alliances and the outcome:
    China/Russia vs USA - China Winner
    China/USA vs Russia - China Winner
    Russia/USA vs China - then we will have chances in the usual Game
    Both we and the United States have a chance only in one configuration of the union.
    1. -7
      15 September 2024 10: 13
      Why is China the winner? Because you wanted it to be?
    2. 0
      17 September 2024 22: 15
      The winner in the US+Russia combination will never be Russia.

      But Russia definitely has a chance to become another Japan for the United States.
  8. -8
    15 September 2024 06: 53
    In 2024, China and Russia are closer than ever. China and Russia directly challenge Western hegemony. China and Russia add more members to their “friends list.” In September 2024, Russia and China receive overwhelming support from the Global South.

    (1) Russia - Joint Chinese Bomber Patrol Near Alaska.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/26/us-intercepts-russian-chinese-bombers-near-alaska-what-we-know

    (2) And large-scale joint Russian-Chinese naval exercises (Ocean 24) in the Sea of ​​Japan.

    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/09/10/733045/Россия-Китай-Join-Forces-For-Major-Naval-Exercision

    These two incidents prove that China and Russia have become closer than ever.
  9. +6
    15 September 2024 06: 56
    The degree of socialism or capitalism in China is determined not by silly intellectualism on the topic of "mythification" or even by forms of ownership, but by the state structure. By power.

    [b]Socialism is characterized by the large powers of the elected authorities. This is how it differs from capitalism. Learn the material! [b]
    In this sense, Lenin even called Britain a country one step away from socialism. Although formally Britain is a monarchy.

    On the other hand, Russia is formally a republic, but the elected authorities in it are so powerless that Russia actually lives as a monarchy.

    In Europe, one can point to a whole series of formal monarchies that are recognized as democratic and are democracies... At least this must be understood first before reasoning.....

    Fuck... This is crazy! 33 years ago, three dudes divided a country worth 300 million into parts just at night in the forest under a bush, and now we're talking importantly about ".. isms.."...
  10. +6
    15 September 2024 07: 03
    The foreign policy course is set by President Putin. And since he is always deceived by his "partners", nothing positive can be expected.
    1. -1
      15 September 2024 09: 19
      But I don't think that he is being deceived. It's even worse - Comrade Xi, thanks to the SVO and sanctions, suddenly discovered that his influence and control over the country is much weaker than he imagined. And he himself is in shock - because he honestly intended to fulfill the agreements, but suddenly - the financial circles of China, closely connected with America, turned out to be much stronger than he would have liked. And this is a problem for him and the Communist Party. Because something like this is categorically unacceptable.

      Because comrade Xi can't help but understand - they'll finish us off, he's next in line. And without options. And here - such a fiasco with a loss of face... So - we'll see how he behaves next.
      1. +2
        15 September 2024 13: 12
        Quote: paul3390
        Because comrade Xi can't help but understand - they'll finish us off, he's next in line. And without options. And here - such a fiasco with a loss of face... So - we'll see how he behaves next.

        He understands everything, he just strangles Russia hard and forces concessions. If Russia meets halfway on many issues, then I think sanctions will be ignored. If Russia leaves, they will strangle it.
        I think the refusal to pay is connected with the increased recycling fee, which prevents China from completely taking over the entire auto market in Russia.
  11. +8
    15 September 2024 07: 29
    Russia is China's younger sister.
    There can be no talk of any dialogue on equal terms or cooperation.

    Russia, in terms of its economic and military capabilities, is a regional country, not a world power.
    The USSR was a great power (although I have long been disillusioned with the USSR), more than 30 years have passed, but because of the incompetent leadership of a geopolitical "genius" we ended up... in the ass.
    And now, with a flashlight, we are looking for a way out, blaming the treacherous West for everything.
    1. +1
      15 September 2024 09: 37
      If you are disappointed in the USSR, it means that the USSR has always been a foreign country for you, where you came to live for a while.
      (I can imagine a situation... Let's say a war starts, and a conscript says: "Oh, come on, I'm disappointed....")

      I am disillusioned with the Russian society in which I was born.
      Because they successfully lost it
      and the Soviet power and its workers' party and its country - the USSR.
      Instead of doing what all mentally normal people do - putting things in order there.
      1. -4
        15 September 2024 10: 17
        For those who know the USSR only from stories told by relatives, it is especially attractive
  12. +12
    15 September 2024 08: 08
    I have a suspicion that if China takes the place of the hegemon, the US with its democracy and LGBT jokes will seem like our mother, no NGOs or other preludes, it will be like in Africa, a quiet, modest Chinese official will come and say that this will be so and so.
  13. +12
    15 September 2024 08: 26
    Indeed, historically Russia and China have never been either allies or friends, and given the above facts, there is no reason to assume that even today China views Moscow as a friend. At best, as a business partner, but more likely as a competitor that can be stabbed in the back at the first opportunity.


    I totally agree.
    Russia has fought with China many times: in 1649-1689 (Albazin Company), in 1899-1901 (Boxer Rebellion), in 1929 (conflict for the CER), 1947-1948 (Mongolia), 1969 (Damansky); in 1960-1989, in fact, there was a Cold War.
    It is possible that in 10 years Russia will be friends with the US against China. The US is an old enemy, but across the ocean, and China is a dangerous imperialist predatory neighbor with territorial claims. For Europe, Russia was a country of peripheral capitalism until 2022, with certain funds invested in production, for China - only a raw material base and a sales market. There is not a single country outside the first world with which China has partnership relations, everywhere "buses" in exchange for resources. Even where China built infrastructure projects, this was done by Chinese workers on Chinese equipment.
    1. +5
      15 September 2024 10: 38
      yes and China has territorial claims, the fact that they are not in the official language is so far)) to us and Ukraine until 22 was a fraternal nation under the heel of Bandera's men, we have been liberating for the third year (China just wants to pay us a deciliter for energy resources, but it is always better to take your own and pay for it))) here is the DPRK, there is no market, they turned out to have a core, although the Russian Federation sold them and betrayed them more than once, and China will still throw its logs on our fire
  14. +9
    15 September 2024 08: 28
    In fact, this is a disguised enemy, dreaming of stealing Siberia and the Far East from us on the sly. This is already happening. Only the irreplaceable, and if not him, then who, do not understand this and do not want to understand. Money blinds the eyes. It is a pity for our future and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. The demons will sell and give away everything, like Damansky, drenched in the blood of our soldiers.
  15. 0
    15 September 2024 08: 33
    There is another contradiction. In 1991 we signed the Belovezh Accords. Without any conditions even to the Western republics. Our friends still recognize Ukraine within the 1991 borders. And this in many ways prevents us from moving forward. Whatever they do, they will always have in their heads the idea of ​​Yeltsin signing this agreement.
  16. +2
    15 September 2024 09: 17
    China's trade turnover with ASEAN countries is $911 billion, with Vietnam alone it is more than $230 billion, isn't that a bit much for Vietnam? Figures for 2023
    1. +1
      15 September 2024 09: 26
      I'm not lazy, actually, there are figures from the PRC customs, they sometimes write interesting figures - that you can easily calculate how much a Russian cubic meter of gas, a ton of metal, coal, a barrel of oil costs. And they are not cheap at all - as many people say here.
      1. +1
        15 September 2024 10: 19
        Can you tell me about gas?
        1. +2
          15 September 2024 10: 25
          It turned out to be $240 per thousand cubic meters this year. There are no figures for LNG yet, Novatek is keeping quiet as a fish.
          1. 0
            15 September 2024 10: 33
            Last year oil was around $80, China buys expensive oil from us, the Sokol brand, it is $10-15 more expensive than Urals.
            1. 0
              15 September 2024 10: 50
              Now this news will be spread in the West, all of this is either the 24th or 25th LNG cargo sent "rightfully" by Novatek via the NSR.
  17. +7
    15 September 2024 09: 27
    China is neither a friend nor an enemy, until it is an enemy.
    The Kremlin always wants to hide under someone’s wing, thereby humiliating itself.
  18. +7
    15 September 2024 09: 35
    It's not about China, but as always about our inflated expectations. I don't think if a mess had started in Taiwan, we would have behaved differently, as China is doing now.
    1. 0
      17 September 2024 22: 24
      I bet that when that day comes, Russia will have no help to offer, and the most optimistic outcome will be to remain neutral and continue trading as with China. laughing
  19. 0
    15 September 2024 10: 39
    Friend, partner or

    If a friend was suddenly
    And not a friend, not an enemy, and so
    If you don't figure it out right away

    Friends like these belong in a museum.
    1. +1
      15 September 2024 12: 10
      So, is it normal to expect something simply because "Russians and Chinese have been friends since 1949?"

      Back in the 19th century, the English said: "there are no friends, no enemies, there are only interests."
      Russian people live among themselves only according to this formula, but in international relations it should be the other way around? What the hell for?
  20. Eug
    0
    15 September 2024 12: 03
    The PRC sees Russia not as a "partner" but as a vassal. Otherwise, there is a danger for China that in a potential conflict between China and the US, Russia, in the best case for China, will squeeze the maximum out of the situation, i.e. behave exactly as China is now behaving.
    1. 0
      15 September 2024 12: 13
      They are doing the right thing. If the people have never been masters in their own country, but only "were with someone" - they cannot be treated differently than as a vassal. Be thankful that at least it is like that. It could be worse.
  21. +3
    15 September 2024 12: 05
    At one time, we were friends with the USA, for example, in the 19th century; sensible people understand that we have allies, our army and navy, and that’s all.
  22. +2
    15 September 2024 12: 39
    There are no permanent friends, there are permanent interests. This is an axiom.
    Moreover, the PRC and the Russian Federation have different social systems.
    The Russian Federation is a world storehouse of all natural resources existing on the planet in practically unlimited volumes, starting from fresh water, agricultural lands and forests to energy resources and rare earth metals. One working one in the Karelian Republic and two largest ones in the north of the Sakha-Yakut Republic, the other one in Krasnoyarsk Krai, which are only just planning to start developing with the involvement of state and foreign investments.
    If earlier all this was public property, then after Yeltsin’s betrayal of his party comrades, the coup d’etat and the restoration of capitalism, all this public property became private property.
    Marx also said that there is no crime that capital would not commit for the sake of 300% profit.
    The demand for Russian resources is huge and will be even greater.
    The easiest way to get rich is to sell natural resources, it is low-cost and profitable.
    To the south is the PRC with a population of 1,5 billion who need to be fed, clothed and the world's largest economy.
    Lomonosov said that Russia's wealth would grow through Siberia, where the population density is 1 person per 1 square kilometer, despite the fact that 90% is concentrated in a narrow strip along the railroad.
    Russia needs China as a raw materials appendage of its economy and living space
    1. 0
      17 September 2024 12: 13
      Russia needs China as a raw materials appendage of its economy and living space

      Olga Alexandrovna, that is what she is in essence.
  23. +1
    15 September 2024 13: 24
    For us, China is one of two opposing superpowers in the military and ideological field, for which we are a buffer state on the part of Europe, subordinate to the USA/Great Britain. Now they have started a war to destroy us and the existence of this buffer state is under threat. At the same time, this buffer state, being a nuclear power, is at the same time an unofficial colony of the USA/Great Britain.
    It is for this reason that China’s position is not so clear-cut and the boundary between the interests of China and the United States on Russian territory is not defined.
    The situation would be different if Russia belonged to the socialist countries, and not to the capitalist camp hostile to China, and could not at any moment switch to the side of the United States or simply surrender to them.
    I think this is how things look from China's point of view.
  24. +1
    15 September 2024 13: 34
    I think it's time for us to stop lying to ourselves. The real picture of the world is the only foundation on which we can build our Victory over the enemy, no matter how unrealistic it may seem now.
  25. +7
    15 September 2024 13: 58
    China, at the present moment, is our situational partner, nothing more... The USSR had quite warm and friendly relations with China during the formation of the CPC as the leading and determining force of China and its struggle with the Kuomintang and the construction of the foundations of socialism with the money and resources of the USSR... True, even then I.V. Stalin spoke of the leader of China - Mao Zedong, as a nationalist with a petty-bourgeois essence, saying: "Mao Zedong is like a radish: red on top, and white inside..." Although the mentality and essence of the Chinese have never understood those who are behind the Great Wall of China, considering them all to be strangers, harmful, evil and poor.... Here is the last "parameter" - poverty, seriously determines their current attitude to everyone and everything... The Chinese are traders, to the marrow of their bones, who managed to "make" huge fortunes on trade with the USA and Europe and having created a powerful economic potential... All their earnings are in the USA and Europe, and Russia, in its current state, for them is a "rolling poverty" that can and should be "milked" by "twisting our arms" with our pricing policy for Russian gas, oil, food, and other export goods... And the "heroic" efforts of Comrade Xi in the fight against the national financial and industrial oligarchy are still very modest, due to the unwillingness of Chinese generals from finance and industry to fall under any kind of sanctions from the USA and the West, which is evident from the "tense" Russian-Chinese trade... Well, and Comrade Xi's attempt to sit on "two chairs" at once: the Russian-Chinese strategic partnership and "peace - friendship - chewing gum" with the West + the USA, do not add optimism when looking into the future... And our modest successes "on the battlefields of war" do not add clarity and precision to these prospects... It seems to me that after the build-up military-economic "muscle," Russia, after the victorious SVO, China will move into the category of our usual trading partners and competitors... About friendship - it will make sense to forget, leaving the Army, Navy and the Republic of Belarus as friends...
  26. +6
    15 September 2024 14: 17
    How many more examples, proofs do we need for the authorities, for Putin, to understand that the existing economic model is harmful to the Russian state? No, they will, like the last ignoramuses, beat their heads against the wall and prove that they have everything under control. I came across an ad on Viber: "It's not scary to fall flat on your face!
    It's no shame to fall into a puddle!
    There is no shame in tarnishing yourself when you go to Victory with a pure heart!
    Join YOURS!
    Let us recall that the one-time payment to those who signed a contract with the Ministry of Defense is 1205000 rubles."
    What is this? No honor, no conscience, but with a pure heart? The whole essence of Putin's power! Everything is according to Putin: Lenin, Stalin are guilty, and now the Chinese are wrong, and Putin himself is white and fluffy.
    1. -3
      15 September 2024 16: 32
      Dear "steelworker"! Allow me to give you some medical advice. Do not read from "Viber" before eating or before going to bed.... There is a guaranteed "possibility" of getting a stomach ulcer or chronic insomnia against the background of developing schizophrenia..... And, "about the authorities" - they have their own plans, even for such an economy... And what do you not like about the Russian developing state capitalism, but with a "Gagarin smile"? True, they steal a lot, those who succeed, there is a stratification into new "boyars" and the rest of the "losers", but, all the same, in the Country, there is enough for almost everything and even remains for various "goodies" for the "losers", so that they, "the dear ones", also seem that their life, like that of the "boyars" - is in "chocolate"....
      1. 0
        17 September 2024 12: 35
        Let me give you some medical advice. Don't read from Viber before eating or going to bed....

        Let me also give you some advice: do not interpret the words of Professor Preobrazhensky according to your understanding - they were said at another time and on another occasion.
    2. 0
      17 September 2024 12: 25
      How many more examples and evidence are needed for the authorities, for Putin, to understand that the existing economic model is harmful to the Russian state?

      I'm embarrassed to ask - who among those in power thinks about the Russian state?
      For them, this is the most suitable model of "development", only not capitalist - feudal. With vassals from governors, overlords, with "manual" control, with "negative" selection of personnel and other "goodies"...
  27. +2
    15 September 2024 14: 41
    ...It's simple:

    ...When Russia is STRONG - "friend" (I think)...
    ...When the Russian Federation is weak - "neither a friend nor an enemy - ...and in the way that is more beneficial to it (China)...
  28. +6
    15 September 2024 14: 48
    China is a calculating neighbor-partner. It is naive to assume that China will defend interests alien to it in defense of Russian capitalism. China does not need a war for foreign interests, it can help, but on condition of receiving benefits.
    1. 0
      17 September 2024 22: 30
      There is nothing to complain about. The same applies to Russia.
  29. 0
    15 September 2024 19: 28
    "...Neither a friend nor an enemy, but just..."
  30. +1
    15 September 2024 19: 33
    At best, as a business partner, but more likely as a competitor who can be stabbed in the back at the first opportunity.
    - We were deceived again, weren't we, Vladimir Vladimirovich?
  31. +3
    15 September 2024 19: 45
    A rare article that objectively shows China. China became a superpower only thanks to the USSR and Russia.
    China is a potential enemy for Russia.
    For Russia, China is a neighbor and a trader. That's all.
    Back in the 1960s, China was defined as neither a friend nor a comrade, neither a partner nor an open enemy, a neighbor who is always ready to rob you and stab you in the back. Sixty years have passed and there has been no improvement from such a neighbor.
  32. +1
    15 September 2024 19: 48
    Friendship with China now is simply Putin's good relations with Xi. 20 years ago, China was considered enemy number 1. And Putin asked to join NATO, why do you think? He himself said in an interview with Carson that he wanted to join NATO - it's clear why. Relations with China warmed up when comrade Xi became the head of China. When Xi leaves, the Chinese may begin a tougher unfriendly policy.
    Although I think China will behave like that. It needs gas and oil, coal and timber. And it needs a "northern colony". In case of Russia's defeat, China will immediately introduce its troops into Siberia and the Far East to take control of the deposits and transport flows, to prevent the West from capturing them. The population of Siberia is approximately 15 million people. This population, or rather the majority, China can buy. Simply by offering a free smartphone every year, clothes, household appliances and allowing them to live by their own laws. The main thing is not to interfere with the extraction and transportation of minerals. It will not be difficult for China to support 15 million people for free, considering the profit from direct control of energy resources.
  33. 0
    15 September 2024 19: 52
    China, in my unprofessional opinion, is a national socialist state. Very similar to the Third Reich with strong state regulation and capitalism. What China wants is to negotiate with the US about dividing the world. The US is resisting so far.
  34. +1
    15 September 2024 20: 23
    ...there is no reason to assume that even today the PRC views Moscow as a friend. At best, as a business partner, but more likely as a competitor that can be stabbed in the back at the first opportunity.

    It is absolutely true that the current development of events in the world and China’s attitude towards Russia clearly shows this.
  35. +1
    15 September 2024 21: 31
    All this is pure idealism.
    For more than 300 years now the concept has existed: metropolitanism - who produces and owns.
    and Colonies, or neocolonies - who supply resources and buy goods.

    This line Russia = China fits in clearly.
    And all sorts of friend, not friend - these are some kind of absurdities, completely ignoring the blood spilled in Taman, etc.
  36. 0
    15 September 2024 22: 59
    Situational partners. China needs cheap resources + it understands that without Russia, the US will crush it. China does not allow the Russian Federation to fall into an economic abyss (look at its expenses - billions), but nothing more.
  37. +2
    15 September 2024 23: 37
    The theses are so-so "Beijing would never be an ally of Russia...." In my opinion, it is a commissioned article, but there are problems with China. In my opinion, Russia and China have a historical connection. In fact, it was Russia that became China's support in the fight against the Japanese occupation and a beacon for the Communist Party of China. Khrushchev, of course, "did" a lot for the break and now, ideologically, China does not see the difference between Russia and the USA, only the USA is more successful. By the way, China, quite recently directly asked for the creation of a military bloc, but our multi-vector, wanted good relations with the West, much more. Now for Russia, relations with China are a matter of survival and of course China knows about it.
    I don’t really understand the vector that is being laid down in the Kremlin, but provocations like this article are not analytics, but a tool of influence for those who want to deprive Russia of any chance to survive.
  38. 0
    16 September 2024 15: 35
    China is not a friend, that's for sure. They pump money and resources out of us, waiting for the right moment. They are no different from the Turks. They are just as cunning and waiting. Waiting for the moment to stab us in the back with an axe.
  39. 0
    17 September 2024 01: 13
    There is no friendship in politics. There are interests, there are concepts of "profitable - unprofitable".
  40. +2
    17 September 2024 21: 53
    The reason Russia is worried about China stabbing it in the back is because Russia has stabbed China in the back many times in the past.

    Do you remember how the Russian Far East came to be? Remember how the Soviet Union forcibly separated Mongolia from China? Remember how much territory was taken from China's Xinjiang region?

    The Russians probably remember all this, and that is why Russia is worried about China stabbing them in the back. Not because China has done anything bad to Russia, but because Russia has stabbed China in the back many times in its history.
    1. 0
      23 September 2024 07: 33
      你说的完全正确,作为一个中国人,我很难理解俄罗斯人的自以为是的态度。
      Home
      然而,我还是不的不再接下来的几年里支持这些蠢毛子,我们需要一个缓冲区和肉靶子,中俄两国我会继续支持他们,不求他们感恩,只求他们认清事实 smile
  41. 0
    19 September 2024 05: 46
    A difficult question! But at the moment they are our friends and partners!!!