Bluff and reality. American aircraft carrier type "Nimitz"

465


Attack nuclear aircraft carrier "John K. Stennis" together with the ships of the escort sent to the zone of the Persian Gulf ... The nuclear aircraft carrier "George Bush" was transferred to the shores of Syria. ... The third US aircraft carrier arrived in the Middle East.
From news agency reports for the last year

Despite a clear threat from its shores, the Islamic Republic of Iran calmly announced the launch of 180 uranium enrichment centrifuges. American aircraft carrier groups turned powerlessly off the coast of the Middle East and headed for the native naval base Norfolk ...

Whenever US Navy aircraft carriers “play with muscles” in public, “spittle” is inevitably formed on their decks from those they were supposed to scare. “Non-democratic regimes” do not seem to notice the terrible 100 000-ton ships and carry out their independent policies, not at all embarrassed by the “Nimitsev” with a nuclear power plant standing on the roads.
- What is the strength in, brother?
- Power is in the truth.
Why is no one afraid of nuclear aircraft carriers such as "Nimitz"? How does the United States sweep away entire nations from the face of the earth? Does Iran know any secret that allows itself to react so lightly to the presence of American aircraft carrier ships?

Misconception №1. Let's drive five Nimitsevs to the coast and ...

And American pilots wash themselves with blood. All discussions about the power of the deck aviation The US Navy - "projection of force", "500 aircraft", "at any time, anywhere in the world" - in fact, are the fantasies of impressionable inhabitants.

Misconception №2. Five hundred planes! This is not a pound of raisins!

Let's start with the most famous myth: 80 ... 90 ... 100 (who is bigger?) Can be based on the decks of an atomic aircraft carrier, which, naturally, can tear apart a small country.
The reality is much more prosaic: if you lumber the entire space of the flight and hangar decks with aircraft, then theoretically you can “shove” 85-90 airplanes on the “Nimitz”. Of course, no one does this, otherwise there will be great difficulties with the movement of aircraft and their preparation for departure.

In practice, the strength of the Nimitz air wing rarely exceeds the values ​​of the 50-60 aircraft, among which there are only F / A-30 Hornet X-NUMX-40 fighter-bomber fighters (SuperHornet). The rest is provided by the following support planes: 18 of the electronic warfare aircraft, 4-3 of the E-4 “Houkai” radar detection and control aircraft, and X-NUMX-2 C-1 “Greyhound” transport aircraft are possible. Finally, the squadron of 2-2 anti-submarine and search and rescue helicopters (evacuation of downed pilots is not an easy task).
As a result, even five super-aircraft carriers "Nimitz" hardly capable of putting more than 150-200 impact machines and 40 combat support aircraft. But is this not enough?

Misconception №3. Carriers won half the world!

250 combat vehicles - an insignificant amount. In Operation Storm in a glass Desert "was involved ... 2600 combat aircraft (not counting the thousands of helicopters)! It was exactly the amount of aviation it took to “bomb” Iraq a little.
Take a smaller scale operation - Yugoslavia, 1999 year. In total, the order of 1000 aircraft of NATO countries took part in the bombing of Serbia! Naturally, against the backdrop of this incredible amount of equipment, the contribution of carrier-based aviation from the single aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt turned out to be just symbolic - only 10% of the tasks performed. By the way, the heavy-duty aircraft carrier Roosevelt began performing combat missions only on the 12-th day of the war.

An attempt to solve any local conflict by the forces of several aircraft carriers will end tragically - deck aircraft are not able to provide the necessary density of bomb strikes, it does not have enough strength to independently organize a decent cover. Part of the fighter-bombers will have to be used as air tankers, which will further reduce the already small number of strike vehicles. As a result, when meeting with a more or less prepared adversary (Iraq of the 1991 model of the year) - enemy aircraft and air defense systems will kill the Nimitse wing on the very first day of the war.

Misconception №4. Floating nests of aggression and robbery

1300 sorties per day - the intensity of air strikes during the operation "Desert Storm" is amazing. Every few hours deadly waves rolled through the territory of Iraq from 400-600 aircraft. Obviously, even 10 Nimitz-type super superspires are not able to do so much work; they are weak, like puppies, in front of the power of ground-based tactical aviation.

In the 1997 year, during the international exercises JTFEX 97-2, the aircraft from the Nimitz nuclear aircraft carrier set a record - 197 departures per day. However, as it always happens at the exercises, the “achievement” of the aircraft carrier Nimitz turned out to be a banal pretense arranged in front of high authorities. Departures were made at a distance of no more than 200 miles, and some of the aircraft just took off from an aircraft carrier, made a fly-around of the foremast and immediately landed on deck. There is every reason to believe that these “combat missions” were made empty — indeed, why cling to tons of bombs and PTBs under the wings, if the purpose of the exercise is not striking, but the cherished figure in 200 sorties (by the way, it has not been achieved).

In practice, in combat conditions, the Nimitse fleet rarely performs more 100 sorties per day. Just "cheap Ponte" on the background of thousands of military sorties of the Multinational Force during Operation "Desert Storm".

But that's not all. The key problem of aircraft carriers is that deck-based airplanes are inferior in performance to "ground" aircraft - the Hornet fighter-bomber is simply a mockery against the Strike Eagle multipurpose F-XNUME fighter. The unfortunate Hornet cannot even lift a large-caliber bomb (restricted when flying from the deck!), While the F-15E is prancing in the sky with four 15-kg ammunition (not counting the outboard fuel tanks, sighting containers and missiles " air-to-air ”).

Well, it becomes clear why the US Navy super-aircraft carriers did not dare to intervene and prevent the Iraqi army from occupation of Kuwait in the summer of 1990. In general, carrier-based aviation showed surprising passivity at that time and never even tried to overcome Iraq’s air defenses. The “invincible” aircraft carriers waited patiently for half a year until the million coalition of the International Coalition with the support of 2600 combat aircraft and 7000 units of armored vehicles formed in the Persian Gulf zone.

Bluff and reality. American aircraft carrier type "Nimitz"


Truly, the great "conquerors" and "robbers." The contribution of the US Navy aircraft carriers to world conflicts is simply invaluable: Iraq - 17% of the total number of aviation sorties, Yugoslavia - 10% of all aviation sorties, Libya - 0%. Disgrace.
In 2011, the Americans were embarrassed to invite the Nimitz to the Mediterranean, Colonel Gaddafi “pressed” 150 airplanes from air bases in Europe.

Misconception №5. The nuclear reactor turns the Nimitz into a super-weapon.

The reason for the emergence of a nuclear reactor on aircraft carriers is simple - the desire to raise the rate of production of aircraft and, thereby, increase the intensity of the deck aircraft. The trick is that in order to effectively perform percussion tasks, the planes must take off in groups of 15-20 (or even more) machines in a short period of time. To stretch this process is unacceptable - the minimum delay will lead to a situation where the first pair will be already above the target, and the last pair of aircraft will only be preparing for takeoff from the catapult.

As a result, in a short amount of time it is required to provide the catapult with a huge amount of superheated steam. To accelerate two dozen 20-ton combat vehicles to 200 km / h - the energy required is so much that an aircraft carrier with a conventional GEM slows down to a full stop - all steam flies out of the catapults, there is nothing to rotate the turbines. The Yankees attempted to solve the problem by setting up a nuclear steam generating plant on an aircraft carrier.

Alas, despite the enhanced performance of the UIPP, instead of an effective “floating airfield”, the Americans received a “wunderwalley” with a life cycle of 40 billion dollars in current prices (for advanced aircraft carriers such as Ford, this amount will increase 1,5-2 times). And this is only the cost of construction, repair and operation of the ship! Excluding the cost of aircraft, jet fuel and aviation ammunition.

Even a two-fold increase in the number of sorties - up to 197 per day (record!) Did not help to correct the situation - deck-based aviation was a dull sight in any of the local conflicts of the last 50 years.

The nuclear power plant, along with its numerous circuits, biological protection kit and the whole distillate production plant, takes so much space that any talk about space saving due to the absence of fuel tanks with fuel oil is simply inappropriate.
The increase in the capacity of aircraft fuel tanks (from 6000 tons in non-nuclear AB Kitty Hawk to 8500 tons in nuclear Nimitz) is largely due to a significant increase in displacement - from Kitty Hawk to more than 85 000 tons in nuclear aircraft carrier . By the way, the capacity of the ammunition cellars is greater than that of a non-nuclear ship.

Finally, all the benefits of unlimited autonomy in ship fuel reserves are lost when operating as part of a squadron - the nuclear aircraft carrier Nimitz escorts destroyers and cruisers with a conventional, non-nuclear GEM.

The nuclear reactor on board the American aircraft carriers is a costly and useless overkill that negatively affects the survivability of the ship, but has no fundamental significance. Despite the efforts of the Americans, the strike power of the US Navy aircraft carriers still remains at the level of the plinth.

Misconception №6. An aircraft carrier is necessary for war on foreign shores.

Evidence of the insignificance of the military value of aircraft carriers is more than enough. Actually, Pentagon inhabitants understand this much better than us, because in local conflicts they rely entirely on US military bases in the number of 800 units on all continents of the Earth.

But how to wage a war, in the absence of foreign military bases? The answer is simple: no way. If you do not have air bases in South America, it is impossible to wage a local war on the other side of the Earth. No aircraft carriers and amphibious "Mistral" will not replace the five normal airfields with a two-kilometer "concrete".

Unique Falkland War (1982 year) - not an argument. British marines landed on virtually uninhabited islands with sluggish air resistance from the Argentine Air Force. The Argentines were in no way able to disrupt the landing - the Argentine fleet turned out to be completely unfit and hid in bases.

Another interesting myth: the modern aircraft carrier plays the role of the colonial cruiser of the British Empire in Zanzibar.

Still, 100 000 tons of "diplomacy" inspire - the imperial look of the aircraft carrier "Nimitz" should cause horror and trembling in the hearts of the unfortunate natives. The atomic “wunderwafl”, which is a part of any foreign port, attracts the attention of all local media and inspires respect for America to the Aboriginal people, demonstrating to the world the technical superiority of the United States.

Alas, even the role of the "symbol of the military power of the United States" aircraft carriers was not under force!

Firstly, Nimitz-type aircraft carriers are simply being lost against other important events: the deployment of the American missile defense system in Europe, the deployment of the Patriot air defense missile system on the border with Syria — all this causes a much greater global response than the next senseless campaign of the US Navy aircraft carrier Arabian Sea. For example, the citizens of Japan are much more concerned about the ongoing atrocities of American marines from Futemma base on Fr. Okinawa, than the aircraft carrier "George Washington", quietly rusting at the pier in Yokosuka (American naval base in a suburb of Tokyo).


Normal state of the US Navy aircraft carrier

Secondly, the US Navy aircraft carriers simply can not fulfill the role of "the colonial cruiser in Zanzibar", due to ... the lack of aircraft carriers in Zanzibar. Paradoxically, but the fact is that atomic giants peacefully sleep at the piers in their rear bases in Norfolk and San Diego, or are in a semi-disassembled state in the Brementon and Newport News docks.

Operation of aircraft carriers is so expensive that the admirals of the United States Navy will think seven times before sending the giant on a long hike.
In the end, in order to “bring a bluff” it is not necessary to burn expensive uranium rods and contain 3000 sailors — a visit of one cruiser or destroyer is sometimes enough to “show the flag” (readers probably remember how much noise the disrupted visit of the American headquarters Mount Whitney made) Sevastopol).

Conclusion

The problems of deck aviation began with the advent of jet engines. The growth of dimensions, masses and landing speeds of jet aircraft caused an inevitable increase in the size of aircraft carriers. At the same time, the size and cost of carrier ships grew much faster than the combat effectiveness of these monsters. As a result, by the end of the twentieth century, aircraft carriers had become monstrous, ineffective "wunderwallers", useless both in local conflicts and in a hypothetical nuclear war.

The second strike on deck aircraft was dealt during the Korean War - the planes learned to deftly refuel in the air. The emergence of air tankers and refueling systems on tactical aviation aircraft has led to the fact that modern fighter-bombers can operate effectively at a distance of thousands of kilometers from their home airfield. They do not need aircraft carriers and “airfields jump” - powerful “Strike Needles” can fly the English Channel in one night, rush over Europe and the Mediterranean Sea, dump four tons of bombs on the Libyan desert - and return to the air base in the UK before dawn.

The only “narrow” niche in which modern aircraft carriers can be used is the air defense of a squadron in the open ocean. But to solve defensive tasks, the power of "Nimitz" is redundant. To ensure the air defense of the ship’s connection, a light aircraft carrier with a pair of fighter squadrons and DRLO helicopters is sufficient. Without any nuclear reactors and complex catapults. (A real example of such a system is the British aircraft carriers like the Queen Elizabeth being built).

But most importantly, such conflicts are extremely rare - in the 70 years that have passed since the end of World War II, naval warfare happened only once. It is about the Falkland War in the South Atlantic. By the way, at that time the Argentine side managed without aircraft carriers - having a single tanker aircraft and the only DRLO aircraft (Neptune of the 1945 model of the year), the Argentine pilots on outdated Skyhawks subsonic successfully operated at a distance of hundreds of kilometers from the coast and, in as a result, a third of Her Majesty’s squadron was nearly killed.


Basketball court. The most suitable application for vundervafli worth 6 billion dollars



Watch out, the formidable US Navy aircraft carrier Carl Vinson (CVN-70). The trough does not know how to fight, but it is suitable for the stadium



And on it you can distill supported foreign cars from Japan



Here is the destination for the aircraft-carrying cruiser found the Soviet sailors



The position of the Nimitsev and the universal amphibious assault ships of the US Navy on February 20 of the year 2013. Eight out of ten aircraft carriers of the Nimitz type proudly display the flag in their native ports (in homeport) and at shipyards. Another runs along the coast of the United States and only one is in position in the Arabian Sea.
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  1. djon3volta
    0
    4 March 2013 09: 21
    all this is nonsense ..

  2. Vital 33
    +44
    4 March 2013 09: 29
    As far as I understand, the ground is being prepared for the announcement of the rejection of the domestic aircraft carrier. And how many articles there were about what a wonderful "tool" these aircraft carriers ... just do not count. Looks really tense with money begins. It's a pity...
    1. +67
      4 March 2013 09: 47
      Here is another matter :)))
      Dear author, I was slightly upset by the discussion in the topic http://topwar.ru/24653-vopros-o-primenenii-avianosnyh-gruppirovok-v-severnoy-atl

      antike.html # comment-id-966166
      There he tried very hard to prove that the carrier-based aircraft had outlived its usefulness :) But it didn't work out, disgusting :))))) Hence the completely abnormal style of the "analytical" article
      Just "cheap show-offs"

      role of the “colonial cruiser in Zanzibar”

      monstrous ineffective "wunderwaffles"

      Hornet is just a laughing stock

      And so on. Alas, the article is a vivid example of the fact that when argumentation ends, emotions begin. And nothing more
      1. +21
        4 March 2013 12: 05
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Here is another matter :)))
        Dear author, I was slightly upset by the discussion in the topic http://topwar.ru/24653-vopros-o-primenenii-avianosnyh-gruppirovok-v-severnoy-atl


        antike.html # comment-id-966166
        There he tried very hard to prove that the carrier-based aircraft had outlived its usefulness :) But it didn't work out, disgusting :))))) Hence the completely abnormal style of the "analytical" article


        Perhaps, perhaps. But, damn it, however, the author is still right. It doesn’t even depend on what he pulled on the article
        1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          +3
          4 March 2013 13: 04
          I especially like about Iraq, I thought that Iraq surrendered after a month of bombing and 3 days of tank journey to Baghdad. But the author apparently smoked something else and not with me, even if I read something happened to Iraq in the early 90s .... .. although it is possible in parallel reality everything was as it was in the article .....
          1. +4
            4 March 2013 14: 30
            Quote: NOBODY BUT US
            I especially like about Iraq, I thought that Iraq surrendered after a month of bombing and 3 days of tank journey to Baghdad

            Carriers have to do with it?
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +4
              4 March 2013 17: 03
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Carriers have to do with it?


              Hi Oleg! Article ... honestly, I disappointed .. especially when I touched the wing, the capabilities and limitations of the aircraft ....... no words!

              You are the smartest man-knowing, well-read, erudite, and .... put yourself on the same level with .. "3 volt" .....

              Disorder hi
              1. Quiet
                +6
                4 March 2013 18: 04
                Good day, Sergey !!! hi I have another question (maybe you are in the courses ??), How long (according to the standards) will it take to clean up the trash under the name "stadium" and ghost the ship on full alert ???
                I think that these standards will greatly amuse forum users !!!! laughing lol
                1. dchanc112
                  +1
                  7 March 2013 16: 17
                  Do not tell me, what are the take-off and landing intervals and what compositions do the Yankees have after a ghost ship in full BG?
                  This is my interest, so that forum users have fun comparing our paper with their practical ones. Thank!
              2. 0
                April 18 2016 13: 32
                Envy in every line, here de they have so many, and we have one ship.
          2. Fox
            +5
            4 March 2013 14: 34
            Quote: NOBODY BUT US
            I especially like about Iraq

            you, the campaign does not know, but in Iraq there were a couple of companies. Bush senior in 91 and younger, already in this century.
        2. Misantrop
          +5
          5 March 2013 01: 48
          Quote: qwert
          But, damn it, however, the author is still right. It doesn’t even depend on what he pulled on the article

          And what is right? The fact is that if there are no heaps of foreign bases with support forces and powerful weapons at these bases, then ... sit in your corner and do not dare bark at whoever has these bases (and everything that goes with it). Simply put, the United States is invincible forever and ever, since even "obvious excesses" in the form of aircraft carriers are in sufficient quantity. More in this article, by and large, there is NOTHING ... request
          1. SASCHAmIXEEW
            +4
            5 March 2013 11: 07
            I would not make such a conclusion, on the contrary! Due to the presence of the printing press, they can afford to build anything and for anything! What is their external debt, everyone knows ...... According to Fedorov, we only release $ 200mln for them every year !!! + other countries !!! We are all in dollar bondage !!! Until the CBR is taken out of under the FRS, until we shoot the traitors in power, we “will not see luck” Too many liberals in power, such as Chubais, whose Kudrin must be shot! No regrets !!!
            1. 0
              6 March 2013 06: 53
              Barbarian You are, sir. Well, how is that? Living people and shoot? It wouldn’t hurt to kill at first ... wassat
            2. +2
              7 March 2013 20: 35
              Not to be honest, it would be interesting for this reason: "Due to the presence of the printing press, they can afford to build anything and for anything!" And what would the world do today if the USSR took out such loans? I think that America (I would not write their country with a capital letter, out of principle) would not have become by the 80s. But I am very sorry for "Ulyanovsk", that is who would be a true inhabitant of democracy! bully
          2. klop_mutant
            +2
            8 March 2013 18: 43
            They are invincible simply because they have never fought against someone who can defeat them.
      2. Samurai
        +16
        4 March 2013 12: 15
        I completely agree with you! The author went too far! If everything is as he writes, then why then many countries are trying to acquire their own aircraft carriers.
        1. +12
          4 March 2013 16: 43
          Quote: Samuray
          I completely agree with you! The author went too far! If everything is as he writes, then why then many countries are trying to acquire their own aircraft carriers.

          Well, the main point of the author's article is: "If you can't build it yourself, then fuck up on those who can." laughing
          1. SASCHAmIXEEW
            +2
            5 March 2013 11: 29
            I think you are fundamentally wrong! We do not need to fight off the coast of Argentina! Aircraft carrier offensive weapons, we have a different mentality, we do not need someone else! Come on, this is a stranger to the liquidationists, all is not enough for them! When choking!
        2. +3
          5 March 2013 03: 40
          Hello Everyone, This is a little bit different here. Take a close look at what he writes and what he is silent about. In the Desert Storm, the most terrible and powerful blow was not delivered by the Carriers, namely the security order. They remembered or forgot, It was they who did the main and terrible work called destruction, The author of rights must face the truth, URO ships did what the attack aircraft carriers were not possible, Hundred Tomahawks were launched in the first strike, And the blow was delivered immediately from all directions, the Mediterranean Sea, the Red Sea, the Gulf of Aden, the Indian Ocean, then after checking from space for the results caused another mass launch of missiles, And only after the third mass launch of missiles, aviation came into play, It was then that JP navigation was massively used, The author just forgot about the massive use of attack aircraft carriers in Vietnam, Even then, or disputes about the effectiveness of attack aircraft carriers, But whatever they wrote such ships are needed, The whole debate is being conducted for what purposes, We do not have such an armada of escort ka for them, therefore, they built the fleet's capabilities out of the way, And in the Yankees it’s the TICANDEROGI type ships that take the first roles, they are more effective, but air support needs a question, Over this the Yankees rack their brains, But here the lungs are just in place, I need to see and such an option. Security ships delivered strikes from a distance of 1000-1500 km, but what about strike aircraft carriers at such a distance from the coast, Then all this power rushed closer to the theater of action,
          1. +1
            5 March 2013 16: 41
            I partially agree with you, but what the author wanted to prove with his article is incomprehensible. An aircraft carrier with a nuclear power plant is the most versatile and multi-functional combat ship, albeit as part of an escort warrant. And what modern combat ship can single-handedly fulfill all assigned tasks in combat conditions I think no.
            1. 0
              6 March 2013 17: 52
              I’m also talking about that, Now the methods of using such ships have changed, They used to be on the first roles, but life made me look for other ways to use, If you look, the contribution of an individual ship even of this class is not great, Here they write small, Is it so Blows scary caused by the entire AUG, At first they cleaned up what threatened the aircraft and only then did the aviation go. Then it came when it became clear that the resistance would be minimal, the AUG’s contribution to the defeat of Iraq was enormous. stupid, only they have powerful AUGs and vast experience in using aircraft carriers. For 20 years since the USSR was gone, they spent 8 trillion green on rearmament and modernization, the amount itself indicates that the Yankees set up and upgraded, We should not chase them we have our own problems, And we must proceed from this,
              1. Misantrop
                +2
                6 March 2013 18: 05
                Quote: igor.borov775
                We should not chase after them they have their own problems with us, And from this we must proceed,

                And if they want to solve their problems at our expense, then what will we proceed from? Libya did not attack the United States, was friends with France, etc. .. Did it help her much?
                1. +1
                  7 March 2013 18: 23
                  France just paid off its debts, This is not the first time that such manners are paid for loans
        3. gagarinneon
          -1
          5 March 2013 09: 43
          What countries are these?
          The author is right in many ways, and I believe that an aircraft carrier with its squadron is nothing more than one big target for systems such as BAL or Club
          1. +5
            5 March 2013 10: 11
            You should not think so. Do not underestimate air defense warrants.
            1. SASCHAmIXEEW
              0
              5 March 2013 11: 30
              They will break through and everything will be covered with a copper basin !!!
            2. +1
              5 March 2013 23: 41
              when testing on the islands in 47, it did not become clear whether nuclear weapons were effective against ships or not
        4. SASCHAmIXEEW
          +1
          5 March 2013 12: 28
          I think we do not need aircraft carriers, it’s not our mentality that we can conquer something, but you can bang them with one missile with a nuclear missile, but what others are building is not written down by fools! We have nothing to pull bad, good, yes! And for the sake of terror, lay an atomic land mine in the Sargasso Sea, as the democrat Sakharov advised, and all things !!! You can still have California and let them live under the eternal THREAT, otherwise they have enslaved the whole world $ and think that they are the navel of the earth !! Fuck you!
      3. +25
        4 March 2013 13: 29
        Andrey from Chelyabinsk,
        And it seems to me that the author wanted to express the idea that such wunderwales as "Nimitz" are not needed, but:
        The only “narrow” niche in which modern aircraft carriers can be used is the air defense of a squadron in the open ocean. But to solve defensive tasks, the power of "Nimitz" is redundant. To ensure the air defense of the ship’s connection, a light aircraft carrier with a pair of fighter squadrons and DRLO helicopters is sufficient. Without any nuclear reactors and complex catapults. (A real example of such a system is the British aircraft carriers like the Queen Elizabeth being built).

        Of course, I am far from special in this matter, but still it’s probably worth speaking out in line with what the author writes, and not stupidly call everyone a critin.
        1. +16
          4 March 2013 13: 55
          Quote: carver
          To ensure air defense of the ship’s connection, a light aircraft carrier with a pair of fighter squadrons and AWACS helicopters is enough. Without any nuclear reactors and complex catapults. (A real example of such a system is the British Queen Elizabeth type aircraft carriers under construction).

          Dear carver!
          On this occasion, everything has been expressed for a very long time. A catapult aircraft carrier has a significant advantage over a springboard carrier in the speed of ascension of an air group - and this is one of the most important indicators for the air defense carrier you are talking about. A nuclear power plant is not alternative for an AB with catapults, because a conventional power plant simply does not have the required performance.
          In the world there is NOT A SINGLE AWACS helicopter whose characteristics would at least be any closer to the AWACS aircraft. In fact, not a single today's AWACS helicopter is able to effectively control fighter jets. Aircraft DRLO can take off only from the catapult.
          The United States abandoned PLO planes because the threat from the USSR submarines came to naught - but such planes are much more efficient than PLO helicopters, and a catapult is also needed to launch PLO planes.
          The British are building a wunderwaffe of 65 thousand tons of displacement (ie 64% of the "Nimitz") but do not have half of its versatility.
          Quote: carver
          Of course, I am far from special in this matter, but still it’s probably worth speaking out in line with what the author writes, and not stupidly call everyone a critin.

          This is whom I called cretin? Or cretin, for that matter? Yes, and stupid? :))))
          Take the trouble to point me to the "stupid" places in my commentary, and don't forget about the nerds, please! :)))
          1. +5
            4 March 2013 16: 15
            Andrey from Chelyabinsk,
            Well, you again think of yourself as Wise Goodwin. In my opinion, again, no one argued with the advantage of the catapult over the springboard in the speed of ascent of an air group, it was even said that the advantage was two times higher. The question is posed in a completely different way. The fact that even 5 Nimitz aircraft carriers for the land operation will not be enough to ensure supremacy in the air over a country with a more or less developed air defense and air force, and the need to build such prodigies with us is disputed. In addition, the promising deck-based AWACS named after Beriev A-110 still developed and the very possibility of taking off from the springboard of such aircraft is being considered. So why not approach this issue comprehensively.
            Well, I'll miss the nit-picking gossip.
            1. +3
              4 March 2013 16: 27
              Quote: carver
              Well, I'll miss the nit-picking gossip.

              Those. Your words that I stupidly called someone a nerd should be considered your typo? :)
              Quote: carver
              Well, you again think of yourself as Wise Goodwin.

              Yes, I am like this laughing I'm sitting here, I'm handing out brains to everyone laughing laughing laughing (joke of course)
              Quote: carver
              The question is completely different.

              It seems that I answered your questions?
              Quote: carver
              The fact that even 5 Nimitz aircraft carriers will not be enough for land operations to ensure air supremacy over a country with a less developed air defense and air force

              In numbers, please. "More or less" is too broad a criterion :)
              Quote: carver
              and the need to build such wunderwafles with us is disputed.

              This is not in the article.
              Quote: carver
              In addition, the promising deck-based AWACS named after Beriev A-110 nevertheless developed the very possibility of taking off from the springboard of such aircraft

              Yeah. With the help of gunpowder accelerators à la the bad memory of the Challenger. We came to the conclusion that the idea is very unwise.
              Quote: carver
              So why not approach this issue comprehensively.

              I didn’t see the complexity
            2. Quiet
              0
              4 March 2013 19: 18
              Yuri cool down! hi You just get turned on .... hi
          2. Quiet
            +5
            4 March 2013 19: 14
            the threat from the submarine of the USSR has come to naught

            Sorry sire hi .. And what kind of panic begins when our 'unloaded' submarine is in the right place at the right time ???
            1. -1
              4 March 2013 19: 38
              is there a "panic"?
              1. 0
                6 March 2013 14: 32
                And remember what it was like that year when our submarines ended up on their shores.
            2. +3
              4 March 2013 20: 02
              Quote: Quiet
              And what kind of panic begins when our 'unloaded' submarine is in the right place at the right time ???

              So they are weaned from the appearance of our submarines in the right place at the right time :)))
              But this does not negate the fact that since the days of the USSR our submarine fleet has been reduced many times and that it can no longer seriously compete with the US Navy
              1. Quiet
                +1
                4 March 2013 21: 48
                The scared crow of any bush is afraid !!!!
          3. +1
            5 March 2013 16: 51
            I completely agree. The British, with their Queen Elizabeth, will not even be able to approach the combat capabilities of the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, and even more so the Gerald Ford under construction.
        2. +4
          4 March 2013 15: 13
          Quote: carver
          And it seems to me that the author wanted to express the idea that such wunderwales as "Nimitz" are not needed, but: ...


          I absolutely agree with you. I will say moreover, it was with such tasks that our TAKRs dealt!
          1. Quiet
            +1
            4 March 2013 19: 20
            I will say moreover, it was with such tasks that our TAKRs dealt!

            ... It is easy both politically and psychologically !!!!
          2. +2
            5 March 2013 17: 19
            Our TAKRs did not have a full-fledged air group, the Yak-38 can not be considered as a full-fledged fighter.
        3. Quiet
          +1
          4 March 2013 19: 06
          open ocean air defense squadron

          ... Sorry Yuri hi ... from whom ??? , well, just the laughter parses (excuse me) !!!!! lol
        4. +2
          4 March 2013 19: 45
          Quote: carver
          Of course, I am far from special in this matter, but still it’s probably worth speaking out in line with what the author writes, and not stupidly call everyone a critin.

          I completely agree with you, but the point is precisely what the author calls the cretins of all (and there are many of them) who consider the idea of ​​building heavy aircraft carriers to be quite effective, and clearly cite one-sided facts and conclusions.
        5. +3
          5 March 2013 05: 42
          Gentlemen, the Yankees are now building an aircraft carrier with a completely different catapult, She doesn’t need steam, Not so long ago there was a brief message from Mr. ROGOZIN, Yes, the very same, The bottom line is the appearance of a cruiser like TICANDEROGI from RUSSIA will force you to take the most decisive measures, Remember, That's it- then he called the main floating enemy it is necessary to proceed from this, Russia is now simply not able to build something about 75 thousand tons of displacement, When will appear then we'll see, And so the argument is about nothing, the Yankees have tremendous experience in using such ships to them it’s better to see what is needed and what is not They still have other giants such as universal ships and ships warehouses a huge economy in peacetime burdensome, Squeeze another submarine fleet, it also costs a lot, The enemy sunk into oblivion and the fleet remains, And there is still an army with its own needs, It’s just such a time that it’s hard for the Yankees to bear such expenses, We need a war to justify it all, So far it doesn’t work, But we need to proceed from our there are no awns while we are suffering such shipyards, how they will build and the conversation will be different. In the meantime, at this stage of the development of the fleet, aircraft carriers need their ships and build who can afford it and what opportunities they have,
          1. +2
            5 March 2013 17: 24
            In the foreseeable future, Russia, unfortunately, will not be able to build a full-fledged aircraft carrier.
            1. +1
              9 March 2013 00: 50
              and on xp .. it is not needed. Americans have already put half of their jokes. and in general I look a lot of fans of aircraft carriers. figures say that they are too costly and stupid, and our fans are torn.
      4. +16
        4 March 2013 16: 01
        when the argument ends, emotions begin

        It’s just that the author of this “great” article should have once sat in positions under the Hornet, or on some ship during an air raid, and it seems to me that the tone of the article would change very quickly. If there was someone left to change.
        1. +8
          4 March 2013 16: 12
          Great words - short and clear good

          if we ever have at least one such in its potential and composition of the air group, I will be happy
          1. Quiet
            +3
            4 March 2013 19: 31
            if we ever have at least one such

            ... Such monsters are easier to destroy than to produce !!!!! hi
            1. APOCALIPTIC
              0
              4 March 2013 21: 30
              Well, write the ways (simple) how to destroy them, and the Americans will know, otherwise they riveted the hell knows what hi
              1. Quiet
                +2
                4 March 2013 21: 50
                What intelligence are you working on 007 now ?? bully
              2. +5
                4 March 2013 21: 54
                Quote: APOCALIPTIC
                Well, write the ways (simple) how to destroy them, and the Americans will know, otherwise they riveted the hell knows what
                Give them a Chinese vacuum cleaner. Well, what worked on the nuclear submarine and on the aircraft carrier will work laughing soldier
              3. SASCHAmIXEEW
                +1
                5 March 2013 12: 39
                Really no? And it seems to me that there is!
        2. +1
          4 March 2013 16: 30
          Ummm, let me add a little
          not
          Quote: Botanologist
          it would be worthwhile to sit in positions under the Hornet once,

          а
          Quote: Botanologist
          it would be worth just once to sit in positions under the laughing stock - "Hornet"
        3. -1
          4 March 2013 19: 09
          Quote: Botanologist
          It's just that the author of this "great" article should have once sat in positions under the "Hornet"


          the chance of getting hit by Hornet’s bombs is 10 times lowerthan getting hit by F-15E, F-16 or Panavia Tornado bombs
          1. fartfraer
            +14
            4 March 2013 21: 19
            "the chance of getting hit by Hornet bombs is 10 times lower than getting hit by the bombs F-15E, F-16 or Panavia Tornado" - the chance to die from a sniper is much higher than the chance to die from a nuclear explosion, but no one refused nuclear weapons, but on the contrary strive to get it.
            it is necessary to consider an aircraft carrier in conjunction with its group, and in this case, I think, a connection with a large aircraft carrier has much more chances than a connection with an "escort" one.
            If all aircraft carriers are UG, then why did the USSR build "aircraft carrier killers"? There was nowhere to put money?
            1. +6
              4 March 2013 21: 25
              Quote: fartfraer
              it is necessary to consider an aircraft carrier in conjunction with its group, and in this case, I think, a connection with a large aircraft carrier has much more chances than a connection with an "escort" one.
              good to hear good thoughts good
            2. -7
              5 March 2013 01: 17
              Quote: fartfraer
              if all aircraft carriers are UG, then why did the USSR build "aircraft carrier killers"

              The USSR built the BOD. Large anti-submarine ships.
              The entire supra-component of the USSR Navy was focused on combating the enemy’s nuclear submarines.
              "George Washington" Soviet admirals feared much more than aircraft carriers
    2. +28
      4 March 2013 10: 01
      Yes, in fact, the author is right. The role of aircraft carriers in projecting force is negligible and the concept of an attack aircraft carrier is flawed. Amer got such an impressive squadron of floating airdromes because of love in cutting the budget and a powerful military industrial lobby. Actually, in the conditions when exactly you print a worldwide payment instrument on toilet paper, there are no problems with costs, another thing is when you have to pay for the operation of these monsters from your pocket. Aircraft carriers for the Russian fleets are needed, even necessary, but the concept of combat use should still be shifted to the cover of the naval group, and for this giants like Nimitz are not needed.
      1. +25
        4 March 2013 10: 15
        Quote: avdkrd
        Yes, in fact, the author is right. The role of aircraft carriers in projecting force is negligible and the concept of an attack aircraft carrier is flawed. Amer got such an impressive squadron of floating airdromes because of love in cutting the budget and a powerful military industrial lobby.
        Is that just envy? The whole article is simply blatant envy or fear of these ships. However, no country in the world has fully developed an effective principle of counteraction to aircraft carrier groups. You can of course overwhelm him with a mosquito flotilla with a bunch of victims. You can contrast the 2-3 powerful missile cruisers with support. In theory, you can fill up any ship. The difference is how much he can do. And it is necessary to consider not one aircraft carrier in particular, but the power of the entire aircraft carrier group. And this is a pretty powerful shock fist.
        1. +13
          4 March 2013 10: 24
          Welcome.
          The difference is how much he can do.

          So it is precisely for this and is intended. Mischief ... and as much as possible.
          And it is necessary to consider not one aircraft carrier in particular, but the power of the entire aircraft carrier group. And this is a pretty powerful shock fist.

          Only this fist has never met an equal opponent. All the time acts "from around the corner". And his opponents were such that they could be rolled out without the AUG.
          Any commander calculates possible losses ... so the loss of an aircraft carrier is a very tangible blow to combat effectiveness and budget. Therefore, they do not go where they can get into the eye.
          1. +12
            4 March 2013 10: 41
            Quote: Wedmak
            Any commander calculates possible losses ... so the loss of an aircraft carrier is a very tangible blow to combat effectiveness and budget.
            Welcome hi But let's say lose 50% of a mosquito flotilla with human casualties is not a much smaller blow to the budget. But I don’t argue about equal opponents. But where are they now? Russia can make up no more than 3 combat-ready groups to resist AUG. Yes, they can get a snot, but we also have a light. Moreover, the number of naval forces underneath makes you jealous. That's why, putting all the facts together, I say that the aircraft carriers are a powerful striking force.
            1. +7
              4 March 2013 10: 54
              I agree.
              The number of the Russian Navy is insufficient. But it is, and this is partly why the AUG command is not in a hurry to risk its ships and does not come close to our units. Let's not forget the long-range aviation.
              But let's say lose 50% of a mosquito flotilla with human casualties is not a much smaller blow to the budget.

              Yes, but it is "mosquito" because it can recover very quickly and relatively cheaply (let's not talk about human casualties now, this is so understandable). But to drive the damaged aircraft carrier back to its native shores, across the ocean ... Rather, they will flood it.
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 15: 17
              Quote: Mechanic
              That's why, putting all the facts together, I say that the aircraft carriers are a powerful striking force.

              This is probably why the entire 6th Fleet, to a single ship, together with the aircraft carrier, was blown out of the Mediterranean Sea as soon as the "Moscow" entered 500 km from this very AUG. Probably, to lose in one salvo from 8 to 16 ships for this very AUG from the category of unacceptable losses, I’m not even talking about our multipurpose boats, without which Mediterranean was definitely not without. hi
              1. +7
                4 March 2013 15: 22
                I don’t even speak about our multi-purpose boats, which definitely could not have been done in the Mediterranean

                There was 3 submarine, one of them atomic. So amers could get at the most do not indulge.
                1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                  0
                  5 March 2013 13: 26
                  Amers compatriots are just sissy, as soon as they really smell fried, their agility disappears. Remember the Caribbean crisis, ours removed missiles from Cuba after the amers removed their missiles from Turkey.! Amers have more show off than courage! They love money more than their homeland, and their life more than money !!!
              2. +12
                4 March 2013 15: 23
                Quote: Andrey57
                This is probably why the entire 6th Fleet, to a single ship, together with the aircraft carrier, was blown out of the Mediterranean Sea as soon as the "Moscow" entered 500 km from this very AUG.
                No need to fantasize. Any direct confrontation means the beginning of a war. And there nobody would touch them. It is necessary to occasionally read materials on the site and then the reasons will become clear, I am not watered so that you retell all materials. And from one salvo Moscow will not be able to destroy 6-12 ships. You carry nonsense again.
              3. +8
                4 March 2013 16: 05
                Probably lose in one volley from 8 to 16 ships for this very AUG from the category of unacceptable losses

                Probably, to give a volley on AUG is also not an easy problem, especially in the Mediterranean Sea. What will provide target designation? How to avoid casualties among the peace courts, which are unmeasured there? How many missiles will reach the targets?
                1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                  +1
                  5 March 2013 13: 30
                  One missile with nuclear weapons, but this is the beginning of the last 3 war, and nobody needs it! So I say, good show off, more expensive than money !!!
              4. +1
                4 March 2013 23: 04
                Quote: Andrey57
                Probably lose in one volley from 8 to 16 ships for this very AUG from the category of unacceptable losses

                Well, I'll go drag on a couple of times, in general, so as not to spend expensive missiles, it is better to take the AUG to abardage and stuff the enemy with oars.

                As part of the division's 100 aircraft, we "kept it up" ONLY! ! ! about decommissioning an aircraft carrier out of order, but not sinking it, and even then, with a “very modest” probability, because without hitting it less than 9 - 11 supersonic missiles with a warhead under a ton of explosive in each (!) is a pipe dream ...
                Less than a division (three regiments), there was no point in hitting the aircraft carrier, and from those three regiments (by calculations) there was almost nothing left in the end ...

                Previously, I watched only the news, now they ... there is no desire ..

                Victor Sokerin Lieutenant-General "PR as an end in itself", I advise you to read, is sobering.
                1. klop_mutant
                  0
                  9 March 2013 01: 22
                  11 missiles with warheads of 1 ton each - and this is only the meager probability of incapacitating an aircraft carrier? If so reading is sobering .... Next time, the author will write that for breaking Abrams tank, it is necessary to hit the Mace with 10 combat blocks.
            3. +2
              5 March 2013 06: 13
              Not only are they now a powerful force in escort ships, this is where the power of A aircraft carrier in this system is secondary, because the losses of the aircraft are scanty, And this is the most important thing, Only once the Yankees blundered but Chernomyrdin saved more than one life by yaki by concluding a truce, When the troops left KOSOVO Yankees for the first time felt fear two Serb divisions had almost no losses,
              1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                0
                5 March 2013 13: 33
                Details, please? how did the Black-faced thief of amers save?
            4. SASCHAmIXEEW
              0
              5 March 2013 13: 15
              They need to be soaked with rockets with YAG, they need to be made clear that this is the only way and not how else, and nowhere they will not stick! Once or several times, conduct an exercise with an imitation of a missile strike with a multiple warhead with nuclear weapons on AUG As in the Russian proverb (a good man against sheep, against a good fellow the sheep himself) In the Black Sea they were given a turnover, "BULK" so, they immediately died out! Do you think they forgot the Second World War as ours soaked them? Their pants are still wet for fear! And all this superiority is imaginary, the Americans are not warriors, here the Germans are, yes, it's not in vain that something remained from the Slavs, we would have their diligence and punctuality, and then the devil is not our brother !!! In reality, what kind of war the Americans won without bribery and other things ..? Where has an American military genius ever manifested itself ????? That's it!!
              1. +4
                5 March 2013 17: 00
                Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
                Do you think they forgot the Second World War as our soaked them?

                Of course, I apologize but in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, the Soviet Union, which included the Russian Federation, was an ally of the United States of America.
          2. +1
            4 March 2013 11: 10
            How is it not met? And during the Cold War, did the USSR have a weak fleet or something?
            1. +3
              4 March 2013 11: 18
              How is it not met? And during the Cold War, did the USSR have a weak fleet or something?

              And there were confrontations between the AUG and the Navy of the USSR? I do not remember such an episode.
              There was tracking of the AUG with submarines. There is certainly a chance that one submarine will be able to sniff the carrier, with some luck, but ...
              1. +9
                4 March 2013 11: 26
                Quote: Wedmak
                And there were confrontations between the AUG and the Navy of the USSR?

                In bulk. But especially there was a lot of confrontation between the USSR naval missile aviation and the AUG. Tu-16, Tu-22, Tu-95 constantly tried AUg "to the teeth"
                1. -1
                  4 March 2013 11: 32
                  In bulk.

                  Examples please. Only tracking of submarines for AUG in the calculation, please do not take. This is still more intelligence activity.
                  I agree about aviation.
                  1. +8
                    4 March 2013 12: 05
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    Examples please.

                    So with our pleasure :))) The most famous example is the confrontation during the Indo-Pakistani war
                    By the time all the detachments were concentrated, there were about 20 combat and auxiliary ships of the USSR Navy. Retired Vice-Admiral V.S. Kruglikov: “At that time, we had two missile cruisers, three large anti-submarine ships, three diesel and two nuclear submarines in our detachment. Tracking took place between Ceylon and the Sungar Strait. Our planes appeared four days later. They started giving us intelligence. It immediately became easier. The interaction between surface ships and submarines was also very good. All commanders are experienced and competent. Our strike included by this time already 32 missiles in the first launch and 16 missiles in the second. These possibilities, apparently, sobering the Americans ... During the tracking, much had to be observed. Including 3 accidents at the Enterprise.

                    But in general - quite a bit about all this is written here - I highly recommend http://www.8opesk.su/index15.html
                    1. +4
                      4 March 2013 12: 20
                      Thank. I read with interest.
                      And this only confirms that the Americans produced a lot of bricks while our ships grazed their group. And yet they did not climb onto the collision.
                      1. +8
                        4 March 2013 12: 35
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Thank. I read with interest.

                        You're welcome !
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        And this only confirms that the Americans produced a lot of bricks while our ships grazed their group.

                        That's right. But here you need to consider that
                        a) Before the advent of ships with Aegis, US ships had very limited missile defense capabilities against the RCC of our missile cruisers.
                        b) Our RKRs really could (and still are able to) pretty much spoil the nerves of the enemy AUG, but ... This is their only function.
                        RKR is able to project power onto the enemy fleet. But on land - no longer, because there is nothing. Hundreds of strike aircraft of an aircraft carrier are capable of arranging a not bad badum for both ships and ground structures, therefore AUG is certainly more universal than connecting RRC
                      2. +5
                        4 March 2013 13: 01
                        RKR is able to project power onto the enemy fleet. But on land - no longer, because there is nothing.

                        And here is another question - do we need it?
                        Hundreds of strike aircraft of an aircraft carrier are capable of arranging a not bad badum for both ships and ground structures, therefore AUG is certainly more universal than connecting RRC

                        I agree. That's just why we need such versatility. We are not going to conquer anyone or "democratize" anyone. And to design the force and the UDC will be enough (I mean the mistrals).
                      3. +10
                        4 March 2013 13: 13
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        And here is another question - do we need it?

                        The point is that you are moving from the question "are aircraft carriers outdated as a means of armed struggle and political influence" to the question "do we need aircraft carriers" - and these are completely different questions :) On the second question - I can only remind you that according to The "Naval Strategy of the Russian Federation" from the Russian Navy is required, among other things, "to represent and protect the interests of the Russian Federation in the far ocean regions" for which aircraft carriers are still needed.
                      4. +10
                        4 March 2013 13: 22
                        Perhaps you are right.
                        And I agree, we need aircraft carriers, BUT ... not like the United States! Rather, it should not be floating airfields, but support ships. With powerful anti-aircraft missiles, aerial reconnaissance and target designation. In order not to cover him, but he covered the strike force from the air.
                      5. +6
                        4 March 2013 13: 57
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Rather, it should not be floating airfields, but support ships. With powerful anti-aircraft missiles, aerial reconnaissance and target designation. In order not to cover him, but he covered the shock force from the air.

                        Quite possible. I myself am inclined to this - the main striking force is the long-range anti-ship missiles, and their carriers are covered by fighters from an aircraft carrier ... or something like that, approximately :)))
                      6. +2
                        4 March 2013 15: 05
                        BUT ... not like the USA!

                        In my opinion, this should be the main vector! Repeating the ship of the 2nd World War (albeit at a new level), preparations are underway for a new "2nd" war, but the 3rd looms ahead! What will be relevant in X years? So far, there is a trend towards unmanned and hypersonic vehicles. That's where the dog fumbled!
                      7. SASCHAmIXEEW
                        0
                        5 March 2013 13: 53
                        Rather like theirs! But all the same, I cannot understand "why do we need a Turkish coast and why do we need Africa" ​​or to the Jewish Zionists in our power, a piece of someone else's in someone else's throat covered his eyes! Then drive such people from power, why do we need someone else's, we can't deal with our own !!!
                      8. SASCHAmIXEEW
                        0
                        5 March 2013 13: 41
                        Who wants to die? Nobody attacked them, and then, where is the guarantee that you will stay alive.
                    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
                      0
                      4 March 2013 13: 16
                      After such a strike there were no losses? Interestingly, very 48 missiles were wasted ...
                      1. 0
                        4 March 2013 13: 26
                        And no one shot. Missiles fortunately remained in the PU.
                      2. +5
                        4 March 2013 15: 35
                        The missiles did not "go empty", they were not allowed at all, the amers just knew what would happen if they were launched. hi
                    3. 0
                      4 March 2013 17: 46
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      So with our pleasure:

                      There was also our Cam Ranh base. And in the middle of some Pacific Ocean it would be much more difficult.
                      All that is in this article is the slackness of the Americans, the USSR is gone and the Chinese have not yet grown. There is no real enemy yet.
                  2. +1
                    4 March 2013 15: 29
                    If the boat has 24 Granita, or other similar anti -arable missiles, then this is definitely not reconnaissance activity, such a boat under the belly of an aircraft carrier will send the floor of the AUG to the bottom with the first salvo.
                    1. +2
                      4 March 2013 15: 37
                      This is an extreme option with very little chance of surviving for the submarine.
                      And under the belly "loaves" do not go. Only a diesel submarine of the "Varshavyanka" type is able to get so quietly under the belly of an aircraft carrier. And she only has torpedoes and rocket-torpedoes.
                      1. Misantrop
                        +1
                        5 March 2013 02: 11
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Only a diesel submarine of the "Varshavyanka" type is able to get so quietly under the belly of an aircraft carrier

                        Nonsense. This was successfully done even by the nuclear submarine 627 of the project. The very ones about which the Americans spoke with such contempt. And the subsequent less noisy - even more so. I personally know guys whose crews have been under aircraft carriers repeatedly
                2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
                  -4
                  4 March 2013 13: 14
                  Remind me at least one ..... preferably the time of action, the place and the losses incurred, regarding conditional destruction, you can not steam, do not waste someone else's time, and your own .....
                  1. +5
                    4 March 2013 14: 00
                    Quote: NOBODY BUT US
                    well, the losses incurred

                    Excuse me, what are the losses? If there were any losses, then we would not have corresponded to the Internet now. It is unlikely that the Internet would be in the post-nuclear world. And you. And I.
                    It was a confrontation, but it does not always, fortunately, take the form of battle and (as a result) war.
                  2. Misantrop
                    +4
                    5 March 2013 02: 17
                    Quote: NOBODY BUT US
                    . Desirable time of action, place
                    The Enterprise's first visit to Mediterranean. Somewhere in the mid-70s. All the time he was there, the Crimean MRAD sat under the planes (fueled and with suspended weapons) waiting for the command to take off. I was still a schoolboy then, but I remember that very well (they carried coffee and sandwiches to the airfield for my fathers). And much later he met the commander of the BCH-5 nuclear submarine of the 627 project, who spent this time ... under the hull of this aircraft carrier, waiting for the command for a torpedo strike. Then it cost ...
              2. -3
                4 March 2013 11: 33
                Yes they were. Search for content online.
                1. +3
                  4 March 2013 11: 38
                  Do you have no desire to do this and only have enough to write 5 words? If you are already going to discuss, do it with dignity, and do not send to Google.
                  1. 0
                    4 March 2013 13: 36
                    there’s no time in the evening
                  2. 0
                    5 March 2013 21: 13
                    In short, the entire Cold War is continuous conflict between the fleets of the USSR and the USA, because the latter are mainly fleets of aggression. I will not draw up a report on all meetings, so to speak. Here is some material here http://wartank.narod.ru/73.htm#_5 In this film, the military tells something. [media = http: //youtu.be/jBkwDPWLbXk]
              3. 0
                4 March 2013 15: 20
                The boat, in any case our multi-purpose one, will be guaranteed to send the aircraft carrier to the bottom - in the Indian Ocean in the 80 years our boats went under the aircraft carriers for weeks.
                1. APOCALIPTIC
                  +2
                  4 March 2013 21: 46
                  The boat, in any case our multi-purpose one, will be guaranteed to send the aircraft carrier to the bottom - in the Indian Ocean in the 80 years our boats went under the aircraft carriers for weeks.

                  We can say with the same success that the Americans were following her on the submarine
                  1. Misantrop
                    +1
                    5 March 2013 02: 20
                    Quote: APOCALIPTIC
                    We can say with the same success that the Americans were following her on the submarine

                    If this (the finding of our nuclear submarine under the aircraft carrier becomes known, the AAG commander will fly off the post. And having heard the noise of the Russian nuclear submarine directly INSIDE the warrant, the Americans will by no means pretend that this is the case laughing
                    1. 0
                      5 March 2013 19: 28
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      If this (the finding of our nuclear submarine under the aircraft carrier becomes known, the AAG commander will fly off the post. And having heard the noise of the Russian nuclear submarine directly INSIDE the warrant, the Americans will by no means pretend that this is the case


                      Do you by any chance know that after the Soviet K-314 rammed the bottom of the Kitty Hawk, someone was removed from his post from the American admirals?
          3. +3
            4 March 2013 11: 17
            Quote: Wedmak
            Only now this fist has never met an equal opponent.

            That's right. Carriers participated in conflicts against land countries (or having very weak Navy) - Vietnam, Iraq, Yugoslavia. In addition, in such conflicts, the victim countries had very mediocre air forces. The United States would hardly have sent its carrier groups to the shores of a country that could provide adequate resistance to the forces of the Navy and Air Force. And if the enemy, in addition to front-line aviation, also has strategic bombers, then aircraft carriers would powerlessly sail a couple of thousand kilometers from the borders of the conflict, because it’s unlikely that the Pentagon will be able to risk a pile of metal worth several billion dollars.
            1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
              0
              4 March 2013 13: 18
              The particle "BY" gets in the way, and the story has no subjunctive mood ....
              1. +2
                4 March 2013 14: 38
                Quote: NOBODY BUT US
                The particle "BY" gets in the way, and the story has no subjunctive mood ....

                It is about the present and the future. And the future without the subjunctive is impossible to foresee.
            2. His
              0
              8 March 2013 13: 16
              Right. Until now, nothing can be done with North Korea and Cuba
          4. NOBODY EXCEPT US
            +1
            4 March 2013 13: 11
            But do you think he is an equal opponent? Why haven’t they met him yet? Underestimating the enemy leads to poor results, or rather to large casualties, you should not be afraid of the enemy, but you should not underestimate ......
            1. +4
              4 March 2013 14: 40
              Quote: NOBODY BUT US
              Do you think he is an equal opponent?

              He is always there.
              Quote: NOBODY BUT US
              Why haven’t they met him yet?

              If I went to the forest many times and did not meet a bear, this does not mean that it does not exist in nature. Maybe I just didn’t have such a goal?
              1. +8
                4 March 2013 17: 26
                Quote: Prometey
                If I went to the forest many times and did not meet a bear, this does not mean that it does not exist in nature. Maybe I just didn’t have such a goal?


                Rather, the bear did not have such a goal .. otherwise, we would definitely meet smile
                1. -1
                  4 March 2013 19: 42
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  Rather, the bear did not have such a goal .. otherwise, we would definitely meet

                  From rearrangement of terms ... wink
            2. SASCHAmIXEEW
              +1
              5 March 2013 14: 03
              nobody but you. And you think that if we were weaker. would they not attack us?
          5. Quiet
            +1
            4 March 2013 20: 00
            And how many cruisers of the "Moskva" type can be built with the money allocated for the construction of "Nimitz" ???
            1. Misantrop
              +1
              5 March 2013 02: 22
              Quote: Quiet
              And how many cruisers like "Moskva" can be built with the money allocated for the construction of "Nimitz"?

              No one. Otherwise, they would have already built laughing
            2. SASCHAmIXEEW
              0
              5 March 2013 14: 05
              Do not forget about the printing press and the public debt of amers and all at the expense of the rest of the world!
            3. 0
              5 March 2013 17: 29
              Quote: Quiet
              And how many cruisers of the "Moskva" type can be built with the money allocated for the construction of "Nimitz"

              In Nikolaev there is one at the factory but Russia does not take (possibly in vain) is relatively not expensive.
          6. APOCALIPTIC
            0
            4 March 2013 21: 32
            And where is the enemy?
          7. SASCHAmIXEEW
            +2
            5 March 2013 12: 48
            The most accurate answer to the need for modern realities of aircraft carriers, they are needed to intimidate countries that have no turnover !!!
        2. PLO
          +21
          4 March 2013 11: 13
          This article is simply blatant envy or fear of these ships.

          for the sake of objectivity, it should be noted that this is still not envy

          the author of SWEET_SIXTEEN at one time really praised the American fleet (aug in particular), but relatively recently he had a break in the template (I personally think that the Chebarkul meteorite is to blame laughing) and he came to the diametrically opposite conclusion that all carrier ships are tons of useless trash

          at the same time, he forgets the truth as old as the world, that truth is always in the middle.

          as a result, the article has sound thoughts, for example, I agree that several AUGs alone will not be able to break into a properly organized coastal defense with air defense, aviation, air defense, etc.
          but also in the article a lot of emotions and frank juggling, seriously discussing it is pointless
          1. +10
            4 March 2013 11: 28
            Greetings Oleg.
            Quote: olp
            as a result, the article has sound thoughts, for example, I agree that several AUGs alone will not be able to break into a properly organized coastal defense with air defense, aviation, air defense, etc.
            but also in the article a lot of emotions and frank juggling, seriously discussing it is pointless
            To find the middle is just not pointless. The theory of the use of AUG implies the defeat of coastal defense by cruise missiles, and only then the application of an air strike. In the open sea, he is of little use, but a cover group is guarding him. By itself, it is trough with airplanes. But I repeat. It is necessary to consider the actions of the entire group of ships, and not one.
            1. +1
              4 March 2013 19: 54
              Greetings Steam Locomotive (or Steamboat?)
              The main task of the U.S. Navy in modern wars is to deliver a couple of hundred Tomahawks to the war zone. On this, the functions of the fleet end, aviation enters into force, and, if required, ground forces

              An attempt by the US Navy to "help" with its aircraft carriers ends up inept - the US Air Force does not need help from "floating airfields." As a result, all Nimitzes rot at anchor in bases while 1000 US Air Force planes destroy another country.
              1. +2
                4 March 2013 20: 50
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Greetings Steam Locomotive (or Steamboat?)
                You can just Eugene. laughing
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The main task of the U.S. Navy in modern wars is to deliver a couple of hundred Tomahawks to the war zone. On this, the functions of the fleet end, aviation enters into force, and, if required, ground forces
                Yes, but during these operations, patrols and part of sorties take place precisely from the aircraft carrier + it works as a command post + as aviation support in the near coastal zone. And rightly, someone below said that the AUG currently works like a clock. We would learn from them, and not vilify.
                1. +3
                  4 March 2013 21: 15
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  + it works as a command post +

                  Is the US Army general few 800 military bases on all continents?
                  Do you need a "limousine" for 40 Lard bucks?
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  Yes, but during these operations, patrolling and part of sorties take place precisely from the aircraft carrier

                  this "part" is an insignificant amount from combat missions of "land" aviation
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  We would learn from them, and not vilify.

                  There is much to learn. For example, the organization of refueling in the air. Or the organization of combat work of aviation in local conflicts. 1300 sorties per day! This is not a pound of raisins!

                  Strike Eagle multipurpose fighter-bomber. cool car. combat radius with 4 tons of bombs is almost 1400 km. weight of suspension elements (bombs, missile launchers, PTB, LANTIRN) - up to 11 tons.
                  Deck Hornet didn’t lie close
                  1. +1
                    4 March 2013 21: 28
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Strike Eagle multipurpose fighter-bomber. cool car. combat radius with 4 tons of bombs is almost 1400 km. weight of suspension elements (bombs, missile launchers, PTB, LANTIRN) - up to 11 tons.
                    Yes, they have different tasks.
                    1. +2
                      4 March 2013 21: 43
                      Quote: Mechanic
                      Yes, they have different tasks.

                      You know, enemy aircraft will not ask
                      When meeting with a Su-27 (Su-35) level fighter, deck Hornet guaranteed corpse

                      F-15E will drop the suspension and become a regular F-15 fighter. It will be a dangerous battle with an equal strength opponent
                      1. +2
                        4 March 2013 21: 56
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        F-15E will drop the suspension and become a regular F-15 fighter. It will be a dangerous battle with an equal strength opponent
                        Well, when meeting with the MIG will have time to reset?
                      2. +1
                        4 March 2013 22: 52
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        Well, when meeting with the MIG will have time to reset?

                        The fighter group is usually covered by fighters
                        Needles cover Strike Needles
                        But who will cover the Hornets? Right, Hornets. But the Hornet is a bad bomber and an even worse fighter.
                      3. +1
                        6 March 2013 15: 04
                        But where did you get this nonsense about the cover. This during WWII was a clear separation and shot from cannons and machine guns from a distance of up to 400m. And now the launch range of the P-27 (obsolete) on the opposite courses is up to 60km. And how to cover it is like the Sailors on the embrasure. And on Su-27 there are 4 pieces of them.
                      4. +3
                        4 March 2013 22: 54
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        F-15E will drop the suspension and become a regular F-15 fighter. It will be a dangerous battle with an equal strength opponent

                        Sorry to ask a possibly stupid question. All the same, I'm a layman, and you, apparently, are a pro. Do you imagine the battle between the F-15 and Su-27 as a maneuverable close combat on bends and verticals as in the 2MB? Or will it still be an exchange of missile strikes outside of visual detection?
                      5. +1
                        4 March 2013 23: 10
                        Quote: Normal
                        Or will it still be an exchange of missile strikes outside of visual detection?

                        Any group aerial combat inevitably turns into a "dump for dogs"
                        Opponents converge at a speed of 1 km / s - pilots have time to launch a pair of missiles (the probability of defeat is far from 1,0), after which they will meet face to face

                        P.S. F-15 outperformed F / A-18 in ranged combat
                      6. +3
                        5 March 2013 01: 03
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Any group aerial combat inevitably turns into a "dump for dogs"

                        In the simulator IL-2, an attack aircraft is inevitable. In real life, it is far from a fact.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Opponents approach at a speed of 1 km / s - pilots have time to launch a pair of missiles

                        Well, probably a pair of air-to-air missiles on a fighter (let the experts forgive me and correct me) But once upon a time I met in the Foreign Military Review magazine that, in addition to two missiles for mid-range combat, a fighter usually carries at least one ranged missile. Considering that in reality the rapprochement does not always take place on a collision course, then after the first and second missile attacks on the enemy, there will be no one else to participate in the "dog dump." And if we consider that the numerical advantage may not be on our side (including due to the enemy's presence of several AUGs in the theater of operations), then the consequences can be very sad even to the advantages of our technology in maneuverability, and the possibility of aerobatics. not to reach. Yes, and they will not get into close combat, the wrong mentality.
                        No, of course we will tear them, but for a very long time we harness. Therefore, I would not write off large aircraft carriers from the accounts. Amer found use and battleships, although their best times are far behind
                      7. SASCHAmIXEEW
                        +1
                        5 March 2013 14: 38
                        All this is making money on fear of the whole world !!!
                      8. 0
                        6 March 2013 15: 15
                        The probability of defeating modern melee missiles is at least 0,85 (usually 0,9-0,95). the speed on the catch-up exceeds the speed of the aircraft by at least 2,5 times, overloads exceed the amount carried by the pilot in 3r (up to 20 g). B / c to the fighter’s gun does not exceed 100pcs. With a single-barreled gun firing rate of up to 1000v / min, this is max. 4 queues (if cutoff is enabled). It is only in the movies that the Yankees dashing bring down planes from a gun.
                      9. 0
                        6 March 2013 14: 56
                        And what to fight if dropped the suspension? If the aircraft is used for ground targets, then almost all suspended air-to-ground missiles, and at best (as on the Su-25 with APU60-2) 4 melee air-to-air missiles. Or, like Zadornov, shooting backwards. By the way, the F-15 is not even equal to the Su-27, not to mention the following modifications.
                  2. +1
                    5 March 2013 17: 47
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    The Strike Eagle multipurpose fighter-bomber. cool car. combat radius with 4 tons of bombs is almost 1400 km. ...

                    And with 11 tons, how far?
                    1. 0
                      6 March 2013 11: 12
                      Quote: saturn.mmm
                      And with 11 tons, how far?

                      Hornet from the deck will not lift half
                2. SASCHAmIXEEW
                  +3
                  5 March 2013 14: 29
                  What is learning? Take someone else's, kill the defenseless! How language turned to say that! What is one conflict, where were they right? Everywhere pokokation and hapok! No where, in the entire history of the Americans were not right !!! NEVER!!! Even in its struggle for independence, money is always ahead, and then everything else!
                  1. +1
                    6 March 2013 15: 18
                    That's for sure, Tear off a piece and dump (if possible)
            2. 0
              6 March 2013 14: 45
              And the cover group is only needed to protect this trough, which by and large cannot protect itself (neither from the Air Force, nor from the Navy even separately), otherwise why the heck would it be needed
          2. +2
            4 March 2013 17: 06
            This is how, for me, the correct conclusion and the outcome of the whole discussion ... my thoughts are direct)))))
          3. SASCHAmIXEEW
            +1
            5 March 2013 14: 19
            With a nuclear component and adequate means of delivery, war is generally meaningless !!! Does anyone really understand this !!! After all, kerdyk will come to everyone and who has an aircraft carrier and who has a fishing boat !!! So, it’s all show off with a waste and enrichment and to the benefit of whom, everyone understands the liquid-money top leadership !!! What would they die with their money !!! How many deaths on their unscrupulous faces !!!
        3. +4
          4 March 2013 15: 44
          Is that just envy?
          __________
          Great comment
          my opinion, American aircraft carriers should be taken as a standard of strength and also look at their carrier group which consists of at least 14 ships + plus a nuclear submarine below

          but about how many types of lethal devices on American aircraft carriers - generally silent


          PS - therefore, sooner or later, Kuznetsov needs to be replaced, because there was a Ulyanovsk project with catapults and various aircraft on board
          when we get the Mistral, it’s necessary, little by little, to start working out and recall the forgotten old - only the construction of frigates is depressing

          US Navy video - works like a watch
          photo project of the flagship of the Navy of England under construction- Prince of Wales commissioning in 2018 -term of service 50 years
          1. +6
            4 March 2013 18: 08
            Rustam,

            Quote: Rustam
            - therefore, sooner or later, Kuznetsov must be replaced, because there was a project of Ulyanovsk with catapults and various aircraft on board


            As one of the projects of a promising aircraft carrier, it was rejected at the end of 2012 and was sent for revision to the Nevsky Design Bureau. But here you need to take into account such a thing that the work developing the projects of Soviet aircraft carriers, almost never stopped. This is the practice of the Soviet design school, which required to start improving the design of any ship even before launching (and even before laying the lead). The fact that Ulyanovsk was not built does not mean that work on improving the project has stopped. Naturally, in the 90s these works did not have prospects for implementation. But with the resumption of the shipbuilding program of the domestic fleet, they gained meaning and hope for implementation. In many ways, they were carried out on an initiative basis, when there were no real ideas about which aircraft carrier we needed. Now such an understanding and understanding of how fashionable it was to speak of the promising appearance of an aircraft carrier is. There was already a discussion of this topic on the site.
            The most resonant requirement voiced by the previous Navy commander in chief should be considered "Multimedia", that is, the ability to act "on land, water surface, underwater and air space, and even in space."
            The fleet management puts in this wording the presence on the aircraft carrier, in addition to aviation, and other serious weapons. In particular, it was repeatedly mentioned strike missile system. That is, the aircraft carrier will, like Soviet ships, aircraft carrier cruiser, for which carrier-based aviation is only one of the types of weapons.. Therefore, designers will inevitably have to take into account the factor of increasing displacement at least and think about the architecture of the ship, given the presence of missile systems. But a big plus will flow from long-range target designation by the forces of our own air group.. Nothing is known about the resumption of work on the ship’s aircraft of the RLDN, at least according to open sources. Without an RLDN aircraft, an aircraft carrier can hardly be called a full-fledged combat unit, which will significantly increase the capabilities of the fleet. If we now had a Yak-44 capable of taking off without a catapult and lifting engines ... but in 1992 all work on an almost finished aircraft with an operating radio complex was discontinued.
            The 1st Central Research Institute of Defense substantiated the composition of the air group to 80LA and this formed the basis of the requirements of the fleet.
            Thus, any reincarnation of Ulyanovsk will not work, and not its improved version, but the version of a larger ship should be taken as the basis.
            Also among the requirements of the fleet are nuclear power plants. There are no options here.
            Based on these voiced requirements, we can conclude - aircraft carrier application models will be different from American ones. Other ships and submarines of the group, apparently, will be assigned the role of protection, and all shock functions will be concentrated in the aircraft carrier. One way or another, but the new aircraft carrier will have an attack missile system. There was also information on the ship's version of the S-500, designers also need to take this into account, although there are no rockets of the S-500 sub yet.
            1. +6
              4 March 2013 18: 08
              That is, the reality is that for the new aircraft carrier not the simplest and most easily implemented concept has been chosen. The fleet wants to receive an aircraft carrier of the future ahead of time for decades ahead. But remembering the Caucasian captive, our desires do not always coincide with the possibilities. Simply put, we are currently capable of maximum implementation of a simpler project like Ulyanovsk, which lay on the table to the Navy Commander, among others, but was rejected. One thing is good that we are not satisfied with simple solutions, but we are setting large-scale tasks for the country and industry. According to the latest press information
              designing a promising heavy nuclear-powered cruiser for the Russian Navy was postponed for four years. Now it is expected that its design will be completed in 2018. The construction of the ship will also begin in 2018.

              here
              1. Heccrbq
                +2
                4 March 2013 21: 27
                Or maybe raise pensions, but the salaries of teachers and doctors?
                1. Misantrop
                  -1
                  5 March 2013 02: 29
                  Quote: Heccrbq

                  Or maybe raise pensions, but the salaries of teachers and doctors?

                  What does a teacher and doctors have to do with it? There deputies who are not fed cry, they ask. Doctors will not get one hell of a turn in any case request
                  1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                    +2
                    5 March 2013 14: 46
                    Why it doesn’t reach ... It’s enough to shoot all the embezzlers with confiscation and that’s all, just do it with the prospect of not changing in 10 years!
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 19: 25
              Welcome.
              all shock functions will be concentrated in the aircraft carrier

              Wouldn't it be possible then to have a "floating arsenal" with a small air group? Such a concept has been discussed recently ..
              1. +3
                4 March 2013 19: 45
                Quote: Wedmak
                Wouldn't it be possible then to have a "floating arsenal" with a small air group? Such a concept has been discussed recently ..


                They plan to 80 aircraft (specifically what is unknown), I don’t think that such a quantity fits the definition of a small airstrike group. Moreover, they also say UAVs, they are also present in this concept.
                1. +3
                  4 March 2013 19: 58
                  Oh e .... 80 LA, and even with missiles .... if you figure it out, it will turn out more than Nimitz ??? !!! belay
          2. SASCHAmIXEEW
            0
            5 March 2013 14: 41
            One missile with nuclear weapons and these hours are not in sight !! All this is cutting a boobla in people's fear !!!
      2. +27
        4 March 2013 10: 32
        Quote: avdkrd
        Yes, in fact, the author is right.

        You know, I won’t go far
        In practice, the number of Nimitsa air wings rarely exceeds the values ​​in 50-60 aircraft, including the entire 30-40 F / A-18 fighter-bomber “Hornet” (“Super Hornet”). Everything else - support aircraft:

        The typical composition of the wing includes 48 fighter-bomber Hornet, at least 4 EW Groler, the same number of AWACS E-2С Hokai, a couple of transporters and 8-10 helicopters.
        But, for example, during the war in Iraq, 20 Tomkats, 19 Hornets and 18 Intruders - or 57 fighters and attack aircraft - were based on Theodore Roosevelt. This is not counting 5 electronic warfare aircraft, 4 - AWACS, 8 anti-submarine aircraft, 4 tanker aircraft and 6 helicopters :)))
        As a result, even five Nimitz super-aircraft carriers are hardly capable of exhibiting more than 150-200 attack vehicles and 40 combat support aircraft.

        Five "Nimitzes" are capable of deploying 240 Hornet fighter-attack aircraft, 20 AWACS aircraft, 20-30 electronic warfare aircraft, among other things - and even more.
        But is that not enough?

        The British Air Force includes 100 Eurofighter Typhoon, 95 fighter bomber Tornado (also 22 Tornado in the reconnaissance version, we don’t include them in the drums) 7 AWACS E-3d Sentry.
        French Air Force has 111 rafals and 167 Mirages of various types, as well as 4 Aircraft AWACS E-3
        Those. the composition of 5 air wings of the "Nimitz" type AV, as it were, even surpasses (mainly due to the greater number of AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft) the air forces of the first-class European powers.
        And so for each item. Particularly touched by poor Hornet
        The unfortunate Hornet is not even capable of raising a large-caliber bomb (limitation when flying from the deck!)

        Dear author mixed up everything in the world :))) The first Hornets could not sit on the deck with the weight of weapons on the suspension over 700 kg. This caused certain inconvenience - expensive ammunition, if for some reason they were not used up in a combat mission, they had to be thrown away. But this problem has been solved on Super Hornets - the E / F modification can land with ammunition weight up to 2200 kg, which allows it to land, if necessary, for example, with two 900-kg guided bombs.
        Naturally, there are no restrictions on take-off weight for the Hornets - this is the fantasy of a respected author
        And so - every sentence ...
        1. +5
          4 March 2013 12: 00
          Gentlemen, reading your comments, we can conclude that everyone writes emotions on them, and if a person expresses an idea that is not similar to what they have been saying for several years on all television screens about the need for aircraft carriers, then he is an enemy of the Russian state. Let’s essentially, if there are people with higher military education and who can explain the strategic plans of Russia at sea, explain and explain the role of aircraft carriers in them, please, if not, you don’t think that this is another PR approach to stir up a project where you can steal money for years, an example GLONAS is not enough. Secondly, in the era of the heyday of battleships, you wouldn’t just throw eggs at an article about a submarine and an aircraft carrier, but throw eggs, they were considered the kings of the sea, the war showed that they weren’t, and the aircraft carrier’s submarines became their enemies, which they couldn’t contrast, in the end, in the minds of admirals the idea of ​​an ideal weapon arose. Americans earned a lot of money and began to rivet aircraft carriers. Yes, for a long time they were a force to be reckoned with, but tell me what air defense systems were 70-80 years on ships and land and what now ?! And besides, the author does not conclude that aircraft-carrying ships are not needed, for example, a more sophisticated version is aircraft-carrying cruisers, and regarding the possibility of destroying an aircraft-carrying group, it’s also not worth continuing to fuel the myth that almost the entire Russian fleet, when our ONE !!!! the ambassador’s submarine is a lot of aircraft carrier, and if they set the task, they would all lie at the bottom, with part of their escort, and the fact that our boat would return to base at the same time, and one TU 95 with a SPECIAL missile would be enough put the whole group at once, and a nuclear explosion on water does not hit the ecology as much as on earth.
          1. +3
            4 March 2013 12: 08
            and about the possibility of destroying the aircraft-carrying group, it’s also not worth continuing to fuel the myth that this will require almost the entire Russian fleet, when our ONE is !!!! the ambassador’s submarine is a lot of aircraft carrier, and if they set the task, they would all lie at the bottom, with part of their escort, and the fact is that our boat would return to base

            Still, quietly grazing the AUG and engaging in open battle at sea with it are two different things. Especially alone - it's a bare ass on a cactus, to break something, maybe you can break it, but then the needles will then itch for a long time.
            Yes, and one 95 TU with a SPECIAL missile would be enough to put the whole group at once, and a nuclear explosion on water does not hit the ecology as much as on earth.

            This rocket must still reach the target. Moreover, they let her in before the carrier enters the AUG air defense zone. One will not be much enough - they will be knocked down as a partridge.

            For the rest, in principle, I agree.
            1. +3
              4 March 2013 12: 14
              Not so, in order for the boats to be drowned, and the missiles to fly first of all, it is necessary that the PROFESSIONALS serve, because give the fool a crow, he will manage to bend him. Before you build something, you need to think who will serve on this
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 15: 46
              PDM80 probably meant that if an aircraft carrier is not able to detect a boat under its own bottom, then a salvo of anti-ship missiles in close proximity to the AUG with scanty approach times will be a very interesting surprise hi
          2. +9
            4 March 2013 12: 15
            Quote: PDM80
            and if a person expresses an idea that is not similar to what they have been saying for several years on all television screens about the need for aircraft carriers, then he is an enemy of the Russian state.

            Excuse me, did I call a respected author somewhere - an enemy of the state? :)))) In my opinion, it was you who called him that, not me :)))
            Quote: PDM80
            Let's essentially, if there are people with higher military education and who can explain Russia's strategic plans for the sea, explain and explain the role of aircraft carriers in them, please, if not

            Google replicas of the respected Sergey VAF on this site - he somewhere very carefully described what outfit of forces is required to destroy the AUG with one aircraft carrier. The Tu-22M3 alone in shock execution required two regiments, plus support aircraft, plus a fighter cover ...
            In general, there are several regiments of the most diverse aviation, including heavy missile-bearing.
            Now take a map and look at our Far East. Compare the distances and combat radii of aviation. Find out that in order to cover only one DV from an AUG strike alone, each regiment of aircraft must have at least THREE air bases - otherwise there will be huge territories in which enemy ships can operate but which aircraft cannot reach from existing air bases.
            So - the creation of such forces will come out more expensive than AUG.
            That's the whole answer
            1. 0
              4 March 2013 12: 33
              The enemy of the Russian state was sarcasm, as regards the destruction of the AUG and the protection of our coasts, there is still no fleet on aviation, and I agree that, as far as I know from Soviet calculations, a large amount of aviation was required to destroy the AUG and the task was considered to be performed perfectly well almost complete loss of personnel, but when it was considered and what kind of weapon was planned to be used, and time goes on, and the weapon only becomes a commit. And on paper, you can calculate and estimate anything and life is different, the Titanic was also unsinkable. Therefore, what and how much is needed to drown the AUG is not really verified, but how much effort was needed to drown our group that went to Syria, less?
              1. +2
                4 March 2013 12: 45
                Quote: PDM80
                but when it was considered and what kind of weapon was planned to be used, and time goes on, and the weapon only becomes a commit.

                Quite right, but alas - not only our weapons are being improved.
                Quote: PDM80
                Therefore, what and how much is needed to drown the AUG is not really verified, but how much effort was needed to drown our group that went to Syria, less?

                the thing is that
                a) or we set our fleet the task of fighting enemy AUGs (not necessarily American ones - there are aircraft carriers and / or are being built now in England and France, and China is building them, and Japan, Spain, Italy also have small ships of this class and even Thailand) - or not. If we admit the possibility of a collision with the "aircraft-carrying" powers, then for us aircraft carriers (not necessarily similar to them, but still) have no alternative
                And our squadron - alas, yes, for the AUG it could well have become easy prey, unfortunately.
                1. +1
                  4 March 2013 13: 01
                  Oh, so good started, and so finished. Based on your logic, we don’t have a fleet at all, so maybe before we build aircraft carriers, will we build other ships?
                  1. VAF
                    VAF
                    +4
                    4 March 2013 16: 52
                    Quote: PDM80
                    Based on your logic, we don’t have a fleet at all


                    And what he turns out to be .. FLEET ???? And not those .... barely "living remains". who, by their age, have long been time for ... rest!
                    Just don’t have to "bring" again .. mortgages and data. that something, somewhere ... once ... is laid down and will be ... soldier
                    1. +1
                      4 March 2013 17: 12
                      And what he turns out to be .. FLEET ???? And not those .... barely "living remains". who, by their age, have long been time for ... rest!
                      But you are busy that the USSR fleet was very weak in its work on the ground and covered up strategists. But for example, I don’t understand the meaning of modern shipbuilding.
                      Why every time they try to make a death star.
                      The Chinese over there, on the basis of a semi-civil pelvis, spank Type056 weapons, but no pace. And in ter waters it’s not bad.
                      PS There is a question. One acquaintance said that the naval system of the Navy and obstacles paves the way for the AUG for the main group of enemy missiles.
                      like that or not?
                      1. VAF
                        VAF
                        +3
                        4 March 2013 17: 52
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        But you are busy that the USSR fleet was very weak in its work on the ground and covered up strategists.


                        Я belay ... I didn’t expect such a ... question ..... Then I answer ... Yes, I knew (because the USSR Fleet is no more. But what is now .. is .... well, I already wrote) .
                        And as for the cover of the strategists ... it's .. "hat", because. the launching lines of the missile launcher from long-range and Strategov were just in the zone of destruction of anti-ship missiles of enemy ships ... so ... call ... the only thing that ours could "hide behind" is .... Tu-128 and MiG-31 -mi (Su-27) .. that's it ....!

                        Quote: leon-iv
                        One acquaintance said that the naval system of the Navy and obstacles paves the way for the AUG for the main group of enemy missiles.


                        Somehow it is not very clear .. "question" was formulated request If there is the use of missiles with SBN, then where and to whom, to which AUG what to lay .to? wassat
                      2. 0
                        4 March 2013 18: 13
                        ", because the launch lines of the CD from long-range and Strategov were just in the zone of destruction of anti-ship missiles of enemy ships.
                        You probably didn’t understand me correctly, I ipel because of the submarine with the BR. Old projects.
                2. +3
                  4 March 2013 13: 05
                  And our squadron - alas, yes, for the AUG it could well have become easy prey, unfortunately.

                  Could. Only the Americans knew that the answer could come quite unexpectedly from heaven or from under water. And the losses would be huge. And having counted it, they just got out of the Middle-earth.
                3. Perch_xnumx
                  +3
                  4 March 2013 13: 41
                  If we admit the possibility of a collision with the "aircraft-carrying" powers, then for us aircraft carriers (not necessarily similar to them, but still) have no alternative
                  Well, how much AUG we are able to build. Despite the fact that for the construction of the fleet we will need new powerful shipyards, new plants, new equipment, this will double the cost. Suppose they build a 2-3 maximum and that how they will be distributed in theaters, but we do not assume that the AUG can become quite easy to catch 2-3 times the enemy’s forces, they will knock out the aircraft and then they will finish the AUG.
                  Or it may not disperse forces and means and focus on what we can really build, while there is still such an opportunity.
                  For example, to restore the projects of orbital fighters and bombers, and if a stalemate occurs with an AUG attack, then hit this armada from orbit.
                  1. +4
                    4 March 2013 14: 01
                    Quote: Perch_1
                    Or it may not disperse forces and means and focus on what we can really build, while there is still such an opportunity.
                    For example, to restore the projects of orbital fighters and bombers, and if a stalemate occurs with an AUG attack, then hit this armada from orbit.

                    Sorry, but the Star Destroyers were not brought into this reality, alas.
                    1. Perch_xnumx
                      0
                      4 March 2013 16: 45
                      Sorry, but the Star Destroyers were not brought into this reality, alas.
                      Heard about the spiral, prototypes for flights were already ready.
                      1. +2
                        4 March 2013 17: 01
                        Quote: Perch_1
                        Heard about the spiral, prototypes for flights were already ready.

                        Naturally - I heard. But firstly - there was still a long way to the anti-aircraft system - there was an apparatus that could very well fly in orbit, but no damage systems were created. And secondly - to defeat the AUG planning to use nuclear ammunition, i.e. the load and accuracy did not allow to count on the defeat of AB by conventional means
                4. -3
                  4 March 2013 15: 52
                  Something amers can not create at least something like that, which is in the launching shafts of "Moscow", and it is unlikely that the 6th Fleet would have completely removed from Mediterranean, if the amers would have considered our ship group "easy prey".
                  1. +2
                    4 March 2013 16: 07
                    Quote: Andrey57
                    Something amers can't create at least something like that, which is in the launching shafts of "Moscow"

                    They just don't need it. The role of long-range anti-ship missiles in them is played by airplanes - a couple of Hokaev hangs in 250-300 km from the enemy’s naval group (they can’t get them without fighters) and puts planes out of the radio horizon into the attack - i.e. missiles are launched outside the range of ship's air defense systems.
                    Quote: Andrey57
                    and it is unlikely that the 6th Fleet would have completely removed from Mediterranean if amers would have considered our ship group "easy prey".

                    The departure of the USA AUG and the appearance of our ships in Middle-earth are, alas, completely unrelated things.
                  2. +2
                    5 March 2013 07: 58
                    It’s just that the AUG was in the Middle East just the question of Syria, Turkey complained about the Syrian plane’s actions in the UN Security Council, And the attempt of England and France to achieve a free flight zone in northern Syria was simply removed from the agenda, the Yankees could of course spit on that talking room but elections are ahead, And ours just came to show their presence and see what happens, No AUG resolution went home to vote for the new President, True, sometimes it’s all just to disgrace,
              2. +4
                4 March 2013 13: 00
                PDM80,
                You correctly wrote that Time is passing. But this was during the USSR, but after the collapse of 20 years in Russia, they did nothing, did not release new ships, nor created a new anti-ship missile system, but only decommissioned old ships. Meanwhile, in the USA they developed further, improved ship air defense, improved electronic warfare, improved radar, etc. So you need 20 years at an accelerated pace to develop new types of weapons and put them on combat duty in normal quantities, rather than 1-2 copies.
                1. +1
                  4 March 2013 13: 06
                  I agree one hundred percent, only it is necessary to start from the bottom of the pyramid, and not from above, and with the fact that now it can give parity and not in the next twenty thirty years
                2. +2
                  4 March 2013 13: 32
                  Quote: Atrix
                  but after the collapse of 20 years in Russia, they did nothing, did not release new ships


                  In the 90 years of the Navy of the USSR replenished:

                  - 5 nuclear submarines (were built during the 1992-1996 period.)
                  - a heavy nuclear-powered cruiser (honestly completed for 1998)
                  - large anti-submarine ship "Chabanenko" (1990-1999)
                  - 2 destroyers, etc. 956 - at the beginning of the 2000, new ships were sold to China, replenished the PLA Navy (Haizhou and Fuzhou)

                  New projects of the "dashing nineties":

                  - in 1993, laid down the nuclear submarine pr. 885 "Yasen" - Severodvinsk, has not been accepted into the fleet so far
                  - in 1996, the project was created SSBN pr. 955 "Borey" - in the same year the first ship "Yuri Dolgoruky" was laid down, completed by 2012
                  also in the 90s were built nuclear submarine K-152 "Nerpa" and multipurpose nuclear submarine "Gepard"

                  There is simply no time to list diesel-electric submarines, MRKs, and carrier-based aircraft Su-90 built in the 33s. By the way, it was in 1996 that a major cruise of the Northern Fleet ships to the Atlantic and Mediterranean took place. The aircraft carrier "Kuznetsov" has been approved
                3. +1
                  4 March 2013 19: 53
                  In my opinion you are not talking about Russia but about Ukraine))). Yes, of course, Russia is no longer the USSR, but you turned it down about "20 years of doing nothing".
                4. 0
                  7 March 2013 17: 01
                  Why are you so sure about the CALIBER system
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 17: 38
              Dear, I disagree. During his service he flew for several years on the Tu-16Tu-22M2 and Tu-22M3 on the Far Eastern theater of operations you mentioned. Every year, more than once, exercises with maritime specifics were conducted. Once, an exercise was held on the DIPLOMA WORK of the regiment commander, who graduated from the academy Gen. headquarters. What am I for? With proper planning and skillful interaction, the AUG is "worked out ONCE." Second example. Who served in the east in the 70s. probably remember the "tension" when two aircraft carriers (Kitty Hawk and Midway) entered at a distance of 200-300 km from Vladik. With skillful action, the problem was solved by the departure of a pair with missiles directly controlled by P-com Mokrinsky (at that time division commander). After their flight in a thunderstorm over the deck of an aircraft carrier, these brave warriors zealously said goodbye.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +10
                4 March 2013 18: 26
                Quote: angarchanin
                DIPLOMA WORK of the regiment commander, graduated from the Academy of Gen. headquarters.


                And you can’t name the name of the regiment ???????
                This is who ... who after graduating from the General Staff Academy ... remained the regiment commander

                Quote: angarchanin
                With skillful action, the problem was resolved by the departure of a pair of missiles directly controlled by Commander Mokrinsky (at that time a divisional commander). After their flight into a thunderstorm above the deck of an aircraft carrier, these bold warriors retortively said goodbye.


                Only not in the 70s, but in 1970 and not with missiles. and on scouts (Tu-16R), and retreated because Mokrinsky .. "simulated" the approach to "landing" on Midway with the landing gear extended, for which he received the Order of Lenin soldier

                1. +2
                  4 March 2013 18: 46
                  Quote: vaf
                  Only not in the 70s, but in 1970 and not with missiles. and on scouts (Tu-16R), and retreated because Mokrinsky .. "simulated" the approach to "landing" on Midway with the landing gear extended, for which he received the Order of Lenin
                  Hi Sergey Koment as always good Thank you.
                2. +1
                  4 March 2013 20: 05
                  About Mokrinsky did not know. thank good
                3. +2
                  4 March 2013 20: 09
                  Sergey, you are as always! good drinks
                4. +1
                  5 March 2013 13: 29
                  What do you think, right after the academy for the army commander. In the best case, a divisional commander (if there is a vacancy)
              2. 0
                5 March 2013 13: 38
                He served in Vozdvizhenka, PNK engineer at 523 APIB. A regiment of TB stood with us. Naturally, we talked. Therefore, I know and confirm your words. ANG is worked out precisely with competent planning and skillful interaction. And the aircraft carrier burns like a match.
            3. +1
              5 March 2013 07: 37
              Gentlemen, don’t get excited now on the agenda there is a completely different task to destroy the enemy as far as possible from us Our designers have a very serious task, Now it will just be impossible to get closer to this armada 500km, Now there are other times, Who could know what systems (REO) are on The final stage of the flight of the rocket can be individually directed, Yes, probably no one, Now they have begun to enter the arsenal The Yankees have already begun selling such systems, The same as the fleet, The URW ship of the Tikanderog type 2012 is much more serious than such a 2000, On the approach of such systems that much will change, Now there is a problem how to implement all this, Now it’s just a lull, It all depends on whether we can handle it or not, the Yankees have their own problems, And to reduce unnecessary costs we need unification and universality, For us it also stands apart, And the article just outlined one point but you need to look at the use of all weapon systems, the incoming AUG order, the author simply stated that they are at the bases, Oh, They will order to go camping what’s the problem, Yes there’s no problem,
              1. 0
                5 March 2013 13: 32
                Anything can be praised and sold. Here the Americans are strong. But their Petriots could not destroy the old Iraqi Scuds, but only knocked them off the trajectory.
            4. 0
              5 March 2013 13: 50
              About the combat radius. Tu-95, standing in the White Church in Ukraine, flew to the Kamchatka training ground (without landings) .Tu -22М2.3 even takes three hours to complete a simple flight. Estimate the radius yourself. And what kind of horseradish will ANG do on a dead coast. Bear frightening and quietly suppressing fish? Yes, and the regiment flies out alone, and not as part of the air army, the aircraft carrier is intercepted not over the short-range drive, but a little further. tighten long-range aviation
              1. +2
                5 March 2013 14: 43
                Quote: basmach
                About the combat radius. Tu-95,

                So you are talking about Tu-22М2 and 3, but about Tu-95. But after all, without fighter cover they will be eaten on approach. And fighters - their radius is not the same
                1. 0
                  6 March 2013 15: 27
                  So they go without cover with cruise missiles and not with bombs (not WWII)
                  And the launch range allows you not to enter the air defense coverage area. And bombs are the lot of front-line aviation, for to use the Tu-95 even with a bomb max. 9 tons of caliber does not make sense.
          3. NOBODY EXCEPT US
            0
            4 March 2013 13: 27
            Well, there was a good discussion, the guys came and threw all the vigorous bombs, for the umpteenth time ..... it’s not clear who determines whether the submarine was opened or not its commander? Most likely he conditionally destroyed the AUG and they conditionally destroyed the nuclear submarines, and everyone was sure that he had gone unnoticed. Yes, and for KURSK we have not yet taken revenge ..........
            1. +2
              4 March 2013 15: 58
              As soon as the amers spot the boat under their AUG, they begin to hunt it not in a "childish" way, sometimes our guys in the Indian Ocean had to flee for 2 weeks before returning to the bottom of the aircraft carrier.
              1. +1
                4 March 2013 16: 10
                Under the bottom of an aircraft carrier is more a turn of speech.
                1. Misantrop
                  0
                  5 March 2013 15: 04
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Under the bottom of an aircraft carrier is more a turn of speech.

                  Not at all. For torpedo nuclear submarines - the most inconspicuous place in the warrant (masking their noise with this giant drum). And PLO forces roam the perimeter of the order, aiming the equipment out
              2. 0
                6 March 2013 15: 29
                The submarine under the bottom is a flying-floating trough at the bottom.
          4. SASCHAmIXEEW
            0
            5 March 2013 14: 51
            This is what I’m talking about, but it’s 3mv and everyone’s card !!!
        2. Soldier
          +11
          4 March 2013 12: 11
          Here is an example of a reasonable and adequate response to emotions. The article is too cheers-patriotic. For me personally, there are endos, sworn friends, but let's still not engage in hat-making. Amers also have GOOD specialists (where they come from is another question) , and they’re not so naive fools as to throw budget on such expensive ,, toys, if they are unpromising.
          1. +8
            4 March 2013 12: 26
            Thank you, dear Armeec!
            Quote: Armeec
            For me personally, endos, sworn friends,

            Likewise. Therefore, I really want the Russian Federation to have such a navy so that any "dear friend" would think four times before trying to put pressure on our psyche.
            1. speedy
              +1
              4 March 2013 15: 53
              Or maybe the whole point is that our naval commanders rejected the "modernized Ulyanovsk" project due to the low displacement, weak air wing and the absence of AWACS aircraft on it, and declared their desire to have a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier? And the question is not greed - in the north you cannot do without AWACS aircraft - you need to control huge spaces, in the Far East the same story - in the tasks of both air defense and anti-aircraft defense, and strike functions, that is, an aircraft carrier needs a heavy one. Again, the projection of force in the distant seas is also only a heavyweight pull, because we have to scare the "partners", which means that the appropriate tool is needed. How else to cover up a few of our friends (Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua)? And no need to smile about Nicaragua, but how can we decide to build a canal as an alternative to Panama? So if the article is ordered, then the goal is clear. And the author missed that if the shock functions are given to "stealth drones", then the AUG will still be relevant for a long time. Sincerely .
              1. +2
                4 March 2013 16: 10
                Quote: short-term
                Or maybe the whole point is that our naval commanders rejected the "modernized Ulyanovsk" project in connection with

                let's get a look
                Quote: short-term
                low displacement

                75 thousand tons
                Quote: short-term
                weak wing

                24 Su-27 and 24 MiG-29 or 36 Su-27 with 8 AWACS aircraft and so on
                Quote: short-term
                the absence of AWACS aircraft on it

                Just under Ulyanovsk, the Yak-44 was planned - the most AWESOME AWACES :)
                1. speedy
                  0
                  8 March 2013 16: 29
                  The thing is that
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  24 Su-27 and 24 Mig-29 either
                  , but it is desirable that plus AWACS and 12 pieces of helicopters. That’s why naval commanders rejected - you need something bigger.
              2. +1
                4 March 2013 17: 19
                And how did we cover Serbia, Syria?
          2. 0
            4 March 2013 12: 37
            When they were built, they themselves, now their time is running out
        3. 0
          4 March 2013 23: 04
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Five "Nimitzes" are capable of deploying 240 Hornet fighter-attack aircraft, 20 AWACS aircraft, 20-30 electronic warfare aircraft, among other things - and even more.

          Andrei’s petty nitpicking is in vain, but he doesn’t dare to argue with more serious things
          A Desert Storm-scale operation requires a minimum of 2000 aircraft. Apart from everything else

          And the US never had five combat-ready Nimitz
          1. 0
            5 March 2013 08: 13
            Yes, Nimitsev. During the Vietnam War, they managed to drive off as many as ten aircraft carriers. There it didn’t flare on one.
          2. +2
            5 March 2013 14: 44
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Petty nitpicking Andrei

            What can I do? What article - such and nitpicking
      3. 0
        4 March 2013 21: 18
        There is an opinion that minor damage, which caused the roll more than I can’t remember, causes the aircraft carrier group to fail ... Well, in the sense of its main, striking argument (with the possible exception of tamahawks on escort ships). In fact, the air group goes on a long journey home. But the fact that you (the Americans) can take out the infrastructure of a medium-sized country in a couple of weeks is worth a lot, because it continues the policy of the gunboats.
      4. Misantrop
        0
        5 March 2013 02: 00
        Quote: avdkrd
        the concept of combat use still needs to be shifted to the cover of the naval group, and for this giants like Nimitz are not needed.
        And how will a pair of links from an aircraft carrier cruiser help against a swooping pack from the shore (and it just won’t have time to take off anymore)
      5. SASCHAmIXEEW
        0
        5 March 2013 12: 43
        Whether this question is necessary or not, But the fact that the show-off is more expensive than money is for sure!
    3. to water
      +2
      4 March 2013 13: 02
      Maybe there is a rational grain in this article. The time of mighty battleships was gone as soon as ours began to introduce missile weapons into the Navy. "The larger the target, the louder it falls." In my opinion, the only + aircraft carrier is the projection of its foreign policy around the world in peacetime because it is visible (it is large, monumental, with a bunch of military aircraft). And the nuclear submarine is not visible - "it means it is not terrible" until it launched a missile strike. Of course, you cannot completely abandon aircraft carriers, but there is also no need to make a monster with a displacement of 100 thousand tons - you cannot put all your eggs in one basket.
    4. -1
      4 March 2013 13: 19
      Rather, it is justified to dump the aircraft carrier squadron from the Persian Gulf ... the avtyr is somehow upset - like a child whose toy was taken away. It’s incomprehensible that he drops the amers, he praises our roofing felts ...
    5. +4
      4 March 2013 20: 06
      In response to the author of the article. one aircraft carrier, the Color Sea, blocked the entire coast of North Vietnam when war broke out between North and South Vietnam. By the way, while serving in Kamchatka, our ship met with the carrier group of this aircraft carrier. I can say from my own experience - not a pleasant sight, but somewhat scary. planes from this aircraft carrier flew over our ship, they probably decided to see what the icebreaker was doing in the southern seas.
      1. +3
        4 March 2013 20: 59
        As our cap said when on the raid next to Winston Karl there were "Che men are scary? Don't piss, but it's harder to hit us."
        Quote: starshina78
        probably decided to see what the icebreaker does in the southern seas
    6. +1
      4 March 2013 23: 56
      I agree with the author if there is no ground grouping of aircraft, aircraft carriers cannot solve all the problems
  3. Alikovo
    +1
    4 March 2013 09: 31
    very expensive program. the more democratized states, the more public debt.
  4. +5
    4 March 2013 09: 32
    Well, just to smithereens!
    In short, let's drink for world peace!
  5. +22
    4 March 2013 09: 36
    In the article, every second sentence is the author’s invention, the comments will take 2 sheets. I will limit myself only to the fact that, according to the author, the Soviet Navy turned out to be a Chilean sucker investing unrealistic money in the fight against worthless aircraft carriers.
    1. avt
      +8
      4 March 2013 10: 23
      Quote: professor
      In the article, every second sentence is the author’s invention, the comments will take 2 sheets. I will limit myself only to the fact that, according to the author, the Soviet Navy turned out to be a Chilean sucker investing unrealistic money in the fight against worthless aircraft carriers.

      And I will answer you. WELL Dumb! laughing Throw the professor of nonsense to write, they will read the article on Amers and cut the aircraft carriers into needles. And what will your comment be then? That one! Repent, repent publicly! laughing I completely forgot. The British need to show the article, they are also building two stupid ones, in general they were the first to start.
      1. +5
        4 March 2013 12: 02
        Not only are they stupid, it turns out, some Kuzyu warm and cherish, but it turns out they could save and give it to the Indians. laughing
        1. Samurai
          0
          4 March 2013 12: 23
          So I don’t understand why everyone is trying to get AUG, and the author calls for the opposite !!!!
          1. +1
            4 March 2013 12: 28
            So I don’t understand why everyone is trying to get AUG, and the author calls for the opposite !!!!

            And who is it all? Only 3 countries in the world are capable of this! Two countries, the USA and Great Britain, have ACG. Well, as it is ... the USA has it in real life. And Russia is only developing the look of a promising aircraft carrier. That's the whole layout.
            1. +3
              4 March 2013 12: 34
              And who is it all?

              "All" is all the permanent members of the UN Security Council + a couple more countries.
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 17: 20
              China forgot!
            3. 0
              5 March 2013 08: 26
              France France Italy Italy
          2. 0
            5 March 2013 08: 25
            He doesn’t call for anything. He’s just offended by all this whopper periodically spun around Iran and Syria, but no use.
      2. 0
        5 March 2013 08: 19
        Chinas, too, Koreans, too, well, suckers still India joined them
  6. +12
    4 March 2013 09: 37
    I did not evaluate the article.
    It seems that the author hates aircraft carriers as a class. There are those who admire them to the point of insanity, and the author, as I understand it, is the enemy. Or is there another option - spyware - the author tries to suggest that we do not need aircraft carriers - through the formation of public opinion.

    Aircraft carriers are a great help for conducting military operations. Yes, this is not the basis - but the realities of war are indisputably a necessary tool.
    Another question is who will use this tool. But he must be in the arsenal!

    I almost forgot - the author writes: "But most importantly, such conflicts are extremely rare - in the 70 years that have passed since the end of World War II, the naval war happened only once. We are talking about the Falklands War in the South Atlantic. By the way, that time the Argentine side did without aircraft carriers - having the only tanker aircraft and the only AWACS aircraft ("Neptune" of the 1945 model), the Argentine pilots on the outdated subsonic "Skyhawks" successfully operated at a distance of hundreds of kilometers from the coast and, as a result, almost killed a third of the squadron Her Majesty. "

    But forgets to add - ARGENTINA LOSES THAT WAR.
    1. 0
      4 March 2013 13: 24
      Quote: Kaetani
      Aircraft carriers this is a great help for warfare. Yes, this is not the basis - but the realities of war are indisputably a necessary tool.

      People probably forgot how to read and analyze what they read.
      Iraq - 17%
      Yugoslavia -10%
      Libya -0%

      Now try to prove the "huge help" in terms of military facts
      Quote: Kaetani
      Another question is who will use this tool. But he must be in the arsenal!

      If the US has a national debt of 16 trillion, then starships can also be built. On credit. Unpaid.
      Quote: Kaetani
      But forgets to add - ARGENTINA LOSES THAT WAR.

      The logical result.
      5 anti-ship missiles nationwide. The fleet is idle.
      By the way, what about the feats of arms of the Argentine aircraft carrier May 25 in the Falklands War? wink
      1. +4
        4 March 2013 14: 05
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        People probably forgot how to read and analyze what they read.

        Just such an attitude characterizes the exact opposite - people learned to read and analyze :)))
        In Libya, for example, about 30 percent of the total French sorties were made from the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier, and more than half of the air strikes were also carried out from her side.
        1. 0
          4 March 2013 14: 28
          how about the feats of arms of the Argentine aircraft carrier May 25 in the Falklands War?
          1. +1
            4 March 2013 16: 10
            They were not there, but what? :)
            1. 0
              4 March 2013 18: 43
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              They were not there, but what? :)

              How so?! An aircraft carrier is very needed in a naval war ... or not? wink

              An amazing fact: the aircraft carrier "May 25" hid from something on the base. Maybe Andrey will tell you why the Argentine sailors were scared?
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              In Libya, for example, about 30 percent of the total French sorties were made from the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier, and more than half of the air strikes were also carried out from her side.

              And what percentage of sorties fell on the French in relation to the sorties of the Coalition? ))))
              1. +1
                4 March 2013 19: 16
                Oleg, rather strange conclusions regarding the Argentine aircraft carrier. For example, tanks are definitely needed, but "Mouse" did not fight, although it was the most powerful, it was not useful. Hence the conclusion - you must be able to use. Or the Italian fleet in WWII - powerful ships stood stupidly and sometimes strolled just as stupidly. What, neither cruisers nor battleships were needed, then? such a conclusion can be made?
                1. +1
                  4 March 2013 21: 59
                  Quote: Delta
                  although it was the most powerful, it didn’t come in handy. Hence the conclusion - you must be able to use

                  But how can one do it if British submarines roam the ocean.

                  One of them - the nuclear submarine "Cockerror", crashed the cruiser "General Belgrano" (300 dead), after which the entire Argentine fleet hid in the bases - it was pointless to go into battle in such conditions, otherwise the boats would tear the aircraft carrier "May 25" apart ...

                  The death of the cruiser Belgrano, the entire bow is torn off by a torpedo explosion
              2. +2
                5 March 2013 00: 22
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                How so?! An aircraft carrier is very needed in a naval war ... or not?
                Once again, I apologize for interfering in the dispute between specialists (I seriously)
                Isn't an aircraft carrier needed in a naval war? The British arrived at the Falklands without an aircraft carrier? Yes, it seems not, they brought two. Hermes and Invincible. Of course, this is not Nimitz, but still aircraft carriers. By the way, the performance characteristics of the deck harriers were much inferior to the performance characteristics of the Argentine mirages, but the defeat of the British decks was not followed.
                1. 0
                  5 March 2013 00: 56
                  Quote: Normal
                  Isn't an aircraft carrier needed in a naval war?

                  There are no sea wars now - that’s the trick. And it has not been 70 years since the end of WWII. the sinking of the Israeli "Eilat" and the tanker war are a fuss in the coastal zone. Even the Falklands were not in many ways a maritime conflict. There were no ship duels there (with the exception of the sinking of Belgrano by a submarine) - Argentina never used a fleet at all. The final phase of the conflict took place on land.
                  Quote: Normal
                  Hermes and Invincible

                  Two underships with a couple of dozen under-VTOL aircraft
                  As a result, a third of Her Majesty’s squadron was damaged by bombs (the poor of Argentina had bombs of the 40s and most of them did not explode. Nevertheless, the 6 ships sank)
                  In fact, the aircraft carriers Hermes and Invincible failed their task - well, more can be expected from them.
                  Quote: Normal
                  By the way, the performance characteristics of deck harriers are much inferior to the performance characteristics of Argentine mirages

                  The Argentine Air Force had:
                  - 5 new SuperEthandars (and exactly 5 RCC Exoset! Are included in the set!);
                  - 12 combat-ready Mirages
                  - 23 Dagger (the Israeli version of the Mirage, the former Nesher) - practically were not used due to the lack of a refueling system in the air;

                  In view of the above, the main striking force of the Argentine Air Force was ... the outdated A-4 Skyhawk subsonic attack aircraft - they killed most of the ships of the British squadron. The British themselves are to blame - they didn't even have Phalanxes.
                  1. +1
                    5 March 2013 02: 21
                    SWEET_SIXTEEN,
                    Oleg, I do not have the opportunity to win this argument. I acknowledge for you an absolute advantage in awareness in this area. I got into polemics for the sole purpose; raising your (very modest) awareness. I see that passions are heating up, and yet I will object to you. So:
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Even the Falklands were largely not a maritime conflict.
                    Yes, but there was no way to reach them by land, or bomb them with land-based aircraft.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Two underships with a couple of dozen under-VTOL aircraft
                    So I say: not Nimitz, far from Nimitz.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    In fact, the aircraft carriers Hermes and Invincible failed their task - well, more can be expected from them.
                    If the British had Nimitz, there would have been no such losses in the ship's crew.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    5 of new SuperEthandars (and exactly 5 RCC Exocet are included in the set!);

                    Of the Argentine aviation, the most effective aircraft were Super Etandar, which fired six Exocet missiles. Three hit targets, two were shot down by Sea Wolfe anti-aircraft missiles, one missile was carried away by passive jamming from the frigate Plymouth
                    www.atrianaflot.narod.ru/81_publications/falklands2.htm
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    12 combat-ready Mirages
                    Against "a couple of dozen under-aircraft VTOL aircraft" is not so little, given the difference in performance characteristics
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    In view of the above, the main striking force of the Argentine Air Force was ... the outdated A-4 Skyhawk subsonic attack aircraft

                    The attack aircraft is usually a subsonic plane and Skyhawk was not so outdated then. We do not think we are outdated Su-25 although they are operated with 1981g.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    And how do you define the numbers "serious" and "not serious"? About what?

                    You gave a percentage. 17% of a hundred in my opinion a serious figure.
                    Of course, if you take into account that
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    The remaining 83% are both the B-52 strategists and the F-111 and F-15E bombers.
                    The combat load of the deck attack aircraft is simply ridiculous against the background of Stratofortress or F-111.
                    Then I agree - everything looks different. hi
                    1. +1
                      5 March 2013 03: 10
                      Quote: Normal
                      Yes, but there was no way to reach them by land, or bomb them with land-based aircraft.

                      you cannot get by land, you had to use everything that can swim - for example, the former container ship "Atalntic Conveyor", converted into a helicopter carrier / air transport

                      British super-aircraft carrier "Atalntic Conveyor" ... what kind of Nimitz can there be?


                      Strategists could bomb Argentina and the Falklands from Great Britain (the Argentines had to withdraw the Mirages to defend Buenos Aires). However, no one particularly bombed anyone - several dozen Harrier take-off flights were symbolic.
                      By the way, the American base on about. Ascension (without it it would be difficult)
                      Quote: Normal
                      If the British had Nimitz, there would have been no such losses in the ship's crew.

                      The impoverished UK was not even able to establish the Phalanx on their destroyers. The equipment was transported by civilian vehicles recruited from private companies. What are you talking about))))).
                      Quote: Normal
                      Of the Argentine aviation, the most effective aircraft were "Super Etandar", which made six launches of missiles "Exocet"

                      Local Kulibins reprogrammed the sixth rocket from the shipboard launcher from the Segui destroyer
                      Altogether, Argentina had 10 missiles (but half were on ships and could not be used).
                      Quote: Normal
                      Against "a couple of dozen under-aircraft VTOL aircraft" is not so little, given the difference in performance characteristics

                      The main damage was caused by A-4 Skyhawks. Aircraft of the late 50's. With the same archaic avionics and free-falling bombs, they boldly acted at a distance of 600-700 km from the coast! Heroes, you will not say anything!
                      Quote: Normal
                      Of course, if you take into account that

                      The most important objects - the nuclear center, airfields, key air defense and control units - were processed by the legendary F-117. + Apache Helicopter debut + 282 Tomahawk ....

                      But the Falklands had a strange war - a tragicomedy.
                      Especially the sinking of "Sheffield" - the old AWACS plane Neptune only established radar contact with the British destroyer from the fifth time, the equipment was buggy.

                      The British, even those clowns, turned off the radar so that it would be more convenient for their captain to bazaar with London via satellite (so as not to interfere) - and got a rocket aboard. Which did not explode. But the ship vseravno burned out and sank after a week.
                      hi

                      By the way, the Argentinean mujachos in that war was lucky - they could grab NATO from everything
                      1. +1
                        5 March 2013 08: 52
                        After the war, analyzing the conflict, one thing became clear: Almost all subsonic planes flew over the ships and what nothing, they didn’t have simple weapons to the horror, aviation torpedoes, if there were even a second world result, the second under-planes, I do not like these epithets Can’t underestimate the Britons, If they are rubbish then why the Yankees have them in service and by the way they are based on universal ships,
              3. +1
                5 March 2013 15: 01
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                How so?! An aircraft carrier is very needed in a naval war ... or not?

                What do we see? That the British used aircraft carriers and won the war. And that the Argentines were afraid to use the aircraft carrier and lost the war.
                Where can I find confirmation of the uselessness of aircraft carriers - I'm lost in conjecture :))))
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The fact is amazing: the aircraft carrier "May 25" hid from something on the base

                Like the whole Argentinean fleet, yes. So if you managed to draw a conclusion from this about the uselessness of an aircraft carrier - continue it and declare the destroyers and frigates of the URO and submarines as obsolete classes - all this was with Argentina, but hid in the ports :)))
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Maybe Andrei will say what the Argentine sailors were afraid of?

                Apparently - English sailors :)))
                The same AB "May 25" discovered the British compound TF-317 on the morning of May 2, long before the Belgrano sank - they were spotted by the deck Trekker, whose crew managed to establish radar contact with the British ships. Why didn't they attack? What were you afraid of? The official approval - allegedly the attack was abandoned due to the lack of wind, which would facilitate the take-off of heavily loaded Skyhawks, looks unconvincing - the catopult worked ...
                Apparently, the banal fear of the retaliation of the "Lady of the Seas" worked ...
                But it’s interesting, would you be scared at May 25 to raid if there were no aircraft carriers in the British compound? :)
                1. -1
                  8 March 2013 17: 26
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  What do we see? That the British used aircraft carriers and won the war. And that the Argentines were afraid to use the aircraft carrier and lost the war.

                  the British had a squadron of 63 warships and support ships, incl. three atomic submarines
                  Argentina was doomed
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Like the whole Argentinean fleet, yes. So if you managed to conclude from this the uselessness of an aircraft carrier

                  25-e May was useless in the Falkland War
                  prove the opposite))))
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  The same AB "May 25" discovered the British compound TF-317 on the morning of May 2, long before the Belgrano sank - they were spotted by the deck Trekker, whose crew managed to establish radar contact with the British ships. Why didn't they attack? What were they afraid of?

                  On the morning of May 1 could not take off due to weather
                  No one was afraid of anyone - on May 1, air battles between the Argentine Air Force and the British squadron were already raging in full swing. The frigates Arrow and Glamorgan were damaged, Argentine success in the air was reduced to damage to two Sea Harriers (the first aircraft from the 801st AE, the second from the 800th AE), pilots Garcia-Gierva (on the Mirage) and H. Ardilez (on "Dagger").

                  The next day, the Conquerror boat drowned Belgrano and the Argentine aircraft carrier rushed to the base
        2. 0
          5 March 2013 08: 30
          Bravo only wanted to say thanks, but only the Yankees can
      2. 0
        4 March 2013 23: 51
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        People probably forgot how to read and analyze what they read.
        Iraq - 17%
        Yugoslavia -10%
        Libya -0%

        Well, why have forgotten how?
        Libya - 0%; then they did without AUG, there was no need.
        Yugoslavia - 10%; Also a "Mediterranean" theater of operations. Air force bases nearby. And even so 10% is not so little.
        Iraq - 17%; And this is a very serious figure. From the deck on the ground and 17% of all departures - very, very. Remove 17% from the amount and you don’t have enough strength or money to solve the problem.
        No where 3-7%. These figures would not be large, but they cannot be discounted, war is a serious matter. And 10-17% is already very decent.
        1. +1
          5 March 2013 00: 08
          Quote: Normal
          Iraq - 17%; And this is a very serious figure

          Still would! This is a whole six AUG tried!

          And how do you define the numbers "serious" and "not serious"? About what?

          The remaining 83% are both the B-52 strategists and the F-111 and F-15E bombers.
          The combat load of the deck attack aircraft is simply ridiculous against the background of Stratofortress or F-111.
          The combat sortie of carrier-based aviation is not at all equivalent to the combat sortie of ground-based aviation
        2. 0
          5 March 2013 08: 54
          In Iraq, all AUG ships were seriously shown in large quantities for the first time. First of all, we need to seriously look at AUG actions. There are not 17%, but much higher and more serious, it’s not for nothing that they took everything so seriously and tried out new technology. G ROGOZIN is one hundred percent right about cruisers with new weapons, This is a terrible enemy, He is more dangerous than any aircraft carrier and he will not speak in vain
  7. +3
    4 March 2013 09: 38
    A tan on the flight deck ... There was a thing, only had to hide, Cap would not have appreciated. Yes, nowhere to go - in the north there is little sun
  8. +7
    4 March 2013 09: 39
    The submarine fleet is what needs to be built.
    1. +8
      4 March 2013 09: 46
      The triad should be in all directions
      In the fleet it is
      1 Submarine Fleet
      2 Surface Fleet
      3 Fleet Aviation
      1. 0
        8 March 2013 17: 49
        Evgeny ... and the marines. The Navy is a unique branch of the armed forces, in fact the Armed Forces with all the components: Aviation, Fleet (including ships of the "Ticonderoga" type, performing the functions of air defense and missile defense) and nuclear submarines - "underwater Strategic Missile Forces" .. and the marines.
        A modern fleet without aviation is nonsense. But I believe that the Nimitz is the limit for a classic aircraft carrier. In modern conditions, new concepts are needed, and not another modernization.
  9. 12061973
    0
    4 March 2013 09: 50
    maybe they pay him, at one time he wrote that without av and the fleet is not a fleet.
  10. +2
    4 March 2013 10: 16
    I read the article, I thought. I almost agree with the author about the low efficiency of an aircraft carrier as a strike weapon. Almost - this is the application of point strikes. The aircraft carrier will cope with this and will be very effective ... in the absence of good enemy air defense.
    But in order to use the aircraft carrier as a means of integrated air defense for grouping ships ... in its modern form - no way, it does not have its own air defense, and aviation can not cope with the protection of a bunch of ships. Unless only timely detection (AWACS aircraft). But against supersonic missiles, the American aircraft carrier is a huge target. That is why it is protected from all sides by a bunch of ships and submarines.
    So, bombing the natives with AK is one thing, and climbing, even the 3-4 1st AUG, into a country armed with supersonic anti-ship missiles, long-range aviation and powerful air defense is completely different. In the latter case, even without the use of nuclear weapons, all this floating armada will remain at the bottom.
    1. +4
      4 March 2013 13: 17
      Quote: Wedmak
      Almost - this is a point strike

      For the war with the Papuans, an aircraft carrier for 40 billion is not required.
      Papuans are lined with AC-130 ganships - cheap and cheerful
      1. +1
        4 March 2013 13: 28
        These aircraft must also be based somewhere. And the Papuans won’t understand the greatness of the AC-130. But a large ship with dozens of aircraft in the raid - it inspires.
        1. 0
          4 March 2013 13: 45
          Quote: Wedmak
          These aircraft must also be based somewhere.

          800 military bases on all continents

          Quote: Wedmak
          But a large ship with dozens of aircraft in the raid - it inspires.

          Practice does not confirm your theory.
          The Persians did not notice the aircraft carrier in the raid and launched 180 uranium enrichment centrifuges.
          In the 1990 year, Saddam did not notice the American aircraft engineers and immediately occupied Kuwait
          1. +1
            4 March 2013 13: 55
            Yes, 800 bases it certainly inspires better than one aircraft carrier. smile But the projection of force, if I understand correctly, comes down to a demonstration of military power, and not to its use.

            The Persians are "frostbitten" guys, they can already give back, stupidly spraying the accumulated uranium in the atmosphere. Maybe that's why the Americans contact them only by threatening them with a fist from around the corner?
            And what did Saddam get in the end? Rope around the neck.
            In general, those who want to fear AUG are afraid, those who do not want, do not notice them. It turns out so ....
            1. +1
              4 March 2013 14: 27
              Quote: Wedmak
              But the projection of force, if I understand correctly, comes down to a demonstration of military power, and not to its use.

              The projection of force is the willingness to use force
              Quote: Wedmak
              And what did Saddam get in the end? Rope around the neck.

              Why didn’t U.S. Navy carrier-based aviation prevent the occupation of Kuwait at 1990?
              Why didn’t deck aviation begin to crumble Iraq before the arrival of the main forces of the MNF? This would save a lot of time (after all, it’s precisely time that aircraft carrier lovers put in the forefront, right?)
              Quote: Wedmak
              And what did Saddam get in the end? Rope around the neck.

              Million soldiers, 2600 combat aircraft, 7000 BTT units.
              It would seem, where are the aircraft carriers?
              1. 0
                4 March 2013 14: 35
                Do not get me wrong, I am not a supporter of aircraft carriers made in usa, this is their doctrine. Having nothing to do with ours. Somewhere their AUGs are very effective, somewhere it's just a floating barge with airplanes. Therefore, they use them very selectively.
                Why didn’t U.S. Navy carrier-based aviation prevent the occupation of Kuwait at 1990?
                Why didn’t deck aviation begin to crumble Iraq before the arrival of the main forces of the MNF? This would save a lot of time (after all, it’s precisely time that aircraft carrier lovers put in the forefront, right?)

                I also wanted to know ... Could they? Would you like to?
                Million soldiers, 2600 combat aircraft, 7000 BTT units.
                It would seem, where are the aircraft carriers?

                He stood aside, being a command post + air control within a radius of 600 km. Also an option.
                1. 0
                  4 March 2013 14: 45
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Somewhere their AUGs are highly effective

                  For example?
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  I also wanted to know ... Could they? Would you like to?

                  Could not.
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Standing aside, being a command post

                  Take a look at the map above - not enough 800 bases? Do admirals need a 40 billion green limousine?
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  + air control within a radius of 600 km

                  There the sky was buzzing from the E-3 Sentry and the E-8 JSTARS ground-based
                  1. 0
                    4 March 2013 14: 52
                    I admit, I can not answer your questions accurately and with arguments.
                    For example?

                    But the AUGs were built, they were intended for somelimit tasks. Air strike, military presence, control of remote areas. That's actually what comes to mind immediately.
                    Could not.

                    Why?
                    Take a look at the map above - not enough 800 bases? Do admirals need a 40 billion green limousine?

                    And the devil only knows, maybe in a "limousine", closer to the theater, it turns out faster?
                    1. 0
                      4 March 2013 15: 12
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      But AUGs were built, they were intended for some specific tasks

                      My opinion is the powerful aircraft carrier lobby of US industrialists and politicians.
                      Well, unlimited credit in 16 trillion. also played into the hands - build at least a spaceship
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      Why?

                      Aircraft carriers are weak
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      And the devil only knows, maybe in a "limousine", closer to the theater, it turns out faster?

                      The large air base of the US Air Force "Sheikh Isa" (Bahrain), 300 km off the coast of Kuwait. Where is closer? To the front line?
                      It seems that the communications and command and control of the US Army are at the level of the Red Army arr. 1939 of the year
                      1. 0
                        4 March 2013 15: 19
                        It seems to me that you are belittling the US Army too much. Not that I am a lover of this structure, and I know how they like to fight remotely, sitting on comfortable chairs .. but still.
                        They shit in the world to the fullest, in which the aircraft carriers took a direct part, whether they are weak or not.
              2. 0
                16 March 2013 14: 54
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Why didn’t U.S. Navy carrier-based aviation prevent the occupation of Kuwait at 1990?
                Why didn’t deck aviation begin to crumble Iraq before the arrival of the main forces of the MNF?

                I just want to answer: "Because!"
                But, in order. First, there were no UN sanctions. Secondly, it was necessary for Iraq (Hussein) to look more prominent in the "image of the enemy." Thirdly, it was necessary to involve the coalition in the war (why, I will not chew). Fourthly, it was necessary to use up obsolete types of ammunition. Fifthly, it was necessary to test new technologies, samples of weapons and military equipment, to test the forms and methods of actions of troops (forces). Fifth, it was necessary to feed the military-industrial complex. One could continue, but for now this is enough.
          2. 0
            4 March 2013 13: 57
            For which he paid))) you can not notice an elephant, but only the consequences will not take long
          3. psdf
            +1
            4 March 2013 22: 20
            As far as I remember, accusations were made at that time against North Korea and Iraq. Saddam stopped all work, allowed "independent" experts with all the consequences, and North Korea said that they had Juche ideas and sent the United States.
            The result ... And where is that same Iraq?
            Perhaps that is why Iran is in a hurry.
            1. -1
              5 March 2013 13: 19
              There were Arabs in Iraq, and Persians in Iran. And Koreans at one time with our help counted the teeth to the Americans, and they remembered it well and firmly learned their lesson. Therefore, as the Arabs say, "The dog barks, the caravan is coming."
          4. 0
            5 March 2013 09: 14
            On which raid explain, the Yankees don’t go to Iran and don’t call on guests, they pushed around for almost a year but didn’t call
        2. smprofi
          0
          4 March 2013 14: 51
          Quote: Wedmak
          But a large ship with dozens of aircraft in the raid - it inspires.

          For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that an aircraft carrier cannot be placed "on the roads" In the early 80s, when the gringos flexed their muscles in the Lebanese region, the battleship USS Missouri (BB-63) was withdrawn from the reserve to carry out the gunboat policy. so he could spin directly near the coast in line of sight. an aircraft carrier cannot. as it was noted in those days in the "Foreign Military Review" (approximately so) "any nutcase with the help of an anti-tank gun can sink an aircraft carrier." Well, sinking does not sink, but it can cause serious damage.

          Quote: Wedmak
          Yes, and the Papuans do not understand the greatness of the AC-130

          Papuans, of course, "do not read newspapers, all dances are on their minds" (© Zhvanetsky), but when the AC-130H Specter walks with its attack, then even without laudatory / devastating materials in the tyrnet and newspapers it will be possible to evaluate the effectiveness.

          another thing is that now they are beginning to put more emphasis on the UAV. and the same X-47B Pegasus is being sharpened for "work" from an aircraft carrier. at the beginning of the year were tested on the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75)



          I am not against aircraft carriers. and I do not approve of the hat-tapping tone of the article. Yes, and the author freely operates on the facts. and to sort the article into pieces and make comments ... frankly there is no time
  11. +11
    4 March 2013 10: 18
    The article is enchanting nonsense.
    For people like the author, they haven’t come up with anything better than a motor boat, as one wrote here that the US Navy is a rusty trough for fighting only with motor boats. Where do you come from, I hope that none of you serves in Min. Defense, otherwise damn scary for the future of Russia
  12. +7
    4 March 2013 10: 19
    It is foolish not to consider the avisan carrier as a formidable force ..... carrier-based aviation can actually cause tangible damage to the enemy. But in my opinion missile cruisers are better and more practical and cheaper
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 09: 22
      The Yankees do a bad look and the aircraft carrier then when everything is broken and nothing threatens the planes with their business, That’s why they are needed,
  13. +11
    4 March 2013 10: 27
    6 billion $ is a trifle .. here is the Adler-Sochi highway .. this is the thing ... (
    1. djon3volta
      -4
      4 March 2013 12: 48
      Quote: Kubatai
      here is the Adler-Sochi highway .. this is the thing ...

      eh, they didn’t take you to the building .. otherwise I would have stolen it too, that’s even stealing 100 thousand from 6 billion, no one will notice! and there you know how much it’s stealing a little .. that’s what I’m sorry you are not there.
      1. +4
        4 March 2013 13: 17
        Quote: djon3volta
        transformers do not exist in nature and everyone knows this


        Transformers do not exist ????
    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      +3
      4 March 2013 13: 31
      48 km long road cost 2 billion flight to Mars 6 billion that's cut duck cut, amer before us (on the cut) as dopekina cancer ....
  14. djon3volta
    -2
    4 March 2013 10: 37
    Yes, it’s enough to hit 2-3 missiles to disable any aircraft carrier.

    1. +8
      4 March 2013 10: 43
      Quote: djon3volta
      just hit 2-3 rockets

      However, taking into account the ABM AUG (AMG, etc.), even "Granites" need several dozen to get 2-3 missiles hit. Theoretically, it is enough to hit one missile on the take-off deck (to get a large floating hangar for aircraft)
    2. +8
      4 March 2013 10: 46
      Yes, it’s enough to hit 2-3 missiles to disable any aircraft carrier.

      Provided that these missiles break through to the missile defense / missile defense shield.
    3. +12
      4 March 2013 10: 51
      djon3volta,
      I can also discard you as Transformers attack an aircraft carrier there were only a couple of them, why then build aircraft carriers if it is easier to build Transformers
      1. djon3volta
        -1
        4 March 2013 12: 40
        Quote: Atrix
        if it’s easier to build Transformers

        if easier, why not build? or easier to say than to do?
        Transformers do not exist in nature and everyone knows this, but the TU-22 exists, and this scenario looks more likely than your transformers.
        you protect the American aircraft carrier with your text, you are not hinting about transformers, but you want to say that the aircraft carrier is a formidable weapon, especially the American laughing and I give you an example that hitting two missiles and your American ship is no longer worthless. so do not impose and distract me from the topic.
        1. +2
          4 March 2013 13: 21
          Quote: djon3volta
          You protect the American aircraft carrier with your text, you are not hinting about transformers, but just want to say that the aircraft carrier is a formidable weapon, especially the American
          Yes Yes. the principle all suckers except me in life does not work well. And believe less movies, even very beautiful laughing
          1. djon3volta
            -3
            4 March 2013 13: 37
            Quote: Mechanic
            And believe less movies, even very beautiful

            not well, have you ever seen transformers in real life? Do they exist in reality? Why should I not understand garbage about transformers ???
            I have a feeling that if you upload a video where an American plane drowns a Russian ship, then this author will be praised and many pluses like. They also praise Chinese technology, young people like the Chinese, not like ours .. and these people are supported, abalit!
        2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          +2
          4 March 2013 13: 35
          The facts of the brotherhood, the facts. Where, when, by whom 2-3 Nimits were destroyed, preferably with details, otherwise you sir are just WATER .......
          1. +4
            4 March 2013 13: 54
            Quote: NOBODY BUT US
            Where, when, by whom 2-3 rockets destroyed Nimitz,
            About the destruction was not, it was said about the failure, but this is real. But the fact that this is simply not worth the mistake.
          2. Volkhov
            +2
            4 March 2013 18: 11
            Abraham Lincoln was destroyed without any missiles at all - the reactor was dispersed with an ion beam, now it’s half flooded on the west coast.



            Times change, someone found a second on the ship.
            1. +4
              4 March 2013 19: 18
              Quote: Volkhov

              Abraham Lincoln destroyed without rockets at all - the reactor was dispersed by an ion beam,
              Yeah, straight from orbit. And then they reported to you. laughing
              1. Volkhov
                -2
                5 March 2013 10: 56
                Quote: Mechanic
                And then they reported to you


                You have personally seen an explosion in the Chelyabinsk region, for people like you, articles were written, comments that a nuclear explosion (fusion), what to do and why, but it looks like you are waiting for a report from the Kremlin, "that an elephant is an elephant," and why then to study - Hitler believed that it was enough for Russians to count to a hundred and understand orders ... this is approximately the modern government.
                1. 0
                  5 March 2013 20: 18
                  Quote: Volkhov
                  personally saw an explosion in the region of Chelyabinsk
                  For the gifted. I live in 200 km from Chelyabinsk. So i saw laughing
                  1. Volkhov
                    0
                    9 March 2013 16: 53
                    And on which side and azimuth of the explosion? The race car in relation to you?
                    Your description - "flash effect" - really saw the explosion from the front?
        3. +8
          4 March 2013 13: 52
          djon3volta,
          To bring an aircraft carrier out of action, it is necessary to hit 8-10 anti-ship missile systems "Granite" with conventional equipment. When breaking through missiles to an aircraft carrier, up to half of the security ships must also be destroyed. Taking into account the anti-aircraft defense, for guaranteed destruction of the AOG, it is necessary to use 70-100 anti-ship missiles from all types of carriers in one stroke.

          http://modernarmy.ru/article/73
          Read at your leisure


          I do not protect anyone, I look soberly at things. And if for the USSR with its power AUG was a big problem, and there people were much smarter and could look soberly at things. Unlike you, having played enough games and seen a movie like a couple of planes, I break through and drown the Aircraft Carrier. Entire groups were built to destroy the AUG and believed that it was extremely difficult, then Russia is now far from the power of the USSR in terms of the fleet and I doubt very much at this stage Russia can oppose the AUG. Maybe in 10-20 years the situation will change

          And you can continue to believe that the AUG can only scare the poits on motor boats. It’s good that nothing depends on you in making a decision in Russia.
          1. +6
            4 March 2013 14: 19
            Quote: Atrix
            To bring an aircraft carrier out of action, it is necessary to hit the 8-10 anti-ship missile system "Granit"



            even ONE Granite launched towards the US Navy carrier group means World War III
            and then it doesn’t matter how many Granites hit (or missed) the aircraft carrier
            1. djon3volta
              -4
              4 March 2013 17: 47
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              even ONE Granite launched towards the US Navy carrier group means World War III

              that’s what you think. for some reason, the sunken KURSK by the Americans did not cause the third world war, because many suspect Putin of inaction at this moment, they say Putin did nothing .. so there was a provocation against Russia, which would then bring Russia and Putin to war , though not a third against NATO or the United States.
              and now you think if ours sank an American submarine or an aircraft carrier discreetly, but the amers dry out, do you think they will decide to attack Russia? TONKA GUT and the fatal consequences will follow for the attackers. The case will be quiet, and that’s all.
          2. +1
            4 March 2013 16: 15
            In fact, on the "Moscow" "Granites" have long been replaced by more modern missiles and they do not need to be fired in hundreds to destroy an aircraft carrier, while these missiles are still worthy of respect from the amers, otherwise the 6th Fleet would not have washed away for Gibraltar when "Moscow" passed the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles hi
            1. Kodiak
              0
              4 March 2013 20: 15
              And on the "Moscow" were "Granites"?
              1. 0
                4 March 2013 20: 24
                There were Basalts (P-500), then replaced by Volcano (P-1000).
                1. Kodiak
                  0
                  4 March 2013 20: 43
                  Also always thought so, but suddenly?)
                  1. gagarinneon
                    0
                    5 March 2013 10: 18
                    But there is Onyx and Bramos 2 with its speed of 4-6 Mach.
                2. gagarinneon
                  0
                  5 March 2013 10: 14
                  at the speed that Basalt or Vulcan develops, it seems to me that with 10 missiles, half of the AUG would be enough to DESTROY. (My opinion).
            2. +1
              4 March 2013 20: 30
              Quote: Andrey57
              http://modernarmy.ru/article/73

              Damn, well, where did you get the nonsense about the fact that you had disappeared from the sight of one Ancient Moscow? Whoever in your right mind will shoot without declaring war on the AUG. With what fright should they be afraid of the Ship of 30 years ago? Or scared of the 1987 Rocket Volcano. Yes, I understand that there would go 10 ships of the 1164 Atlant project, one could say that they were scared, and so the chickens are ridiculed by one ship. Probably they went away because exercises were conducted by Russia. Or do you think the Russian fleet is in the training zone of the American Navy? When exercises begin, ships or planes do not enter this zone.
              So stop talking nonsense about getting scared and ran away from one ancient "Moscow"
              1. -2
                4 March 2013 20: 36
                Ancient Moscow? Volcano 1987 of the year? Yes, the Americans are close to neither such ships, nor such missiles! This ancient ship in one gulp will send half of the guard ships to the bottom! No missile defense / air defense will save.
                1. 0
                  4 March 2013 20: 40
                  Wedmak,
                  Why not the whole AUG at once? Or maybe the entire US at once with one pole shift? Vladimir Volfovich is it really you? Did you personally check it yourself or was it in the game? Or maybe the "captain" told you a secret after 2 bottles of vodka?
                  1. -1
                    4 March 2013 20: 52
                    Yes, I understand that there would be 10 ships of the 1164 Atlant project, one could say that they were scared, and this is a mockery from one ship to the chickens.

                    And what is not 100 Atlantes? Are they all ancient? !! What is the difference one, ten or one hundred ???
                    1. 0
                      4 March 2013 21: 05
                      Wedmak,
                      Because to hit 160 anti-ship missiles is much more difficult than 16. Isn't it logical? Or with the logic of the problem?
                      1. +1
                        4 March 2013 21: 07
                        I ask you not to be rude.
                2. +1
                  5 March 2013 09: 39
                  Tired of reading nonsense, they were scared running away from anyone, Empty everything, Sometimes you need to look and listen to what our officials are doing, and what is happening in the world, then it will become clear why and why, the Chinese and Mr. Churkin ruined such a holiday of democracy at the UN,
            3. +1
              4 March 2013 21: 06
              In the USSR, it was calculated that an attack on an aircraft carrier (of the Enterprise type) by a Tu-22M2 regiment with the support of an electronic warfare regiment would lead to the death of an aircraft carrier with almost 100% probability. At the same time, the attacking regiment (~ 30 missile carriers) also perishes almost completely.
          3. +1
            4 March 2013 18: 03
            And the scheme is beautiful and the layout on the 8-10 Granites. Yes, only at 74km the anti-ballistic barrier will protect itself. Any rocket (ship or aircraft) does not fall like a bomb, but flies no higher than 50m above the water + small size. As a result, it is difficult to shoot down. Otherwise, read my comment so as not to be repeated twice. Basmch
          4. politruk419
            +1
            5 March 2013 06: 41
            The picture is convincing, but incomplete.
            As of 1993, the applied (and very accurate) science of BIPRO (combat use and use of missile weapons) calculated the likelihood of the destruction of an aircraft carrier when a coordinated missile strike was delivered with two full (9 missiles each - no more constructive salvo)) 3M-45 missiles "Granite" according to AUG of the complete composition. AUG full complement is exactly what is shown in your picture.
            And where, I beg your pardon, are the two APKRRK 450A-project "hanging" over the route of 949 km? (And even accompanied by the "Bars") After all, in the Soviet Navy, they were the main ship "means" against the intrusiveness of the US AUG!
            So, the probability of hitting the AUG in this way was 0,98 in stormy weather and 0,87 in flight for the Hornets and AWACS-Khokaev. This is in the absence of support for "batons" from the coastal aviation and BRAV, without the use of the TU-22M and TU-195, at least as a diversion of the air defense forces of the AUG.
            Naturally, sinking an aircraft carrier is as senseless as it is cruel. We are not some kind of animals. It is enough to destroy the flight deck or the catapult, or even destroy the nodes of the over-the-horizon flight control radar. "Mattresses" have not yet learned how to operate aircraft using a mobile phone. And therefore the ABM of the CW Nimitz immediately turns into a means of unsuccessful investment of the American taxpayer's money. Amen.
        4. -1
          5 March 2013 00: 21
          djon3volta,
          Well, a lot of these aircraft carriers have been sunk / disabled by missiles over the last say ... 60 years?

          Or did the aircraft carriers themselves bring their creators more benefit than missiles that they never took advantage of?

          You are clearly for the Americans, or just a tedious troll ... sad
      2. +1
        4 March 2013 17: 31
        Transformers! 5+ definitely! There are sane people! fellow
    4. 0
      5 March 2013 12: 09
      granite with warhead 500-1200 kg a serious argument
      hi
  15. +1
    4 March 2013 10: 43
    Quote: Wedmak
    So, bombing the natives with AK is one thing, and climbing, even the 3-4 1st AUG, into a country armed with supersonic anti-ship missiles, long-range aviation and powerful air defense is completely different. In the latter case, even without the use of nuclear weapons, all this floating armada will remain at the bottom.

    Yes, in principle, they are used to instill terror for the natives. The United States does not have a land border with a potential enemy. Well, the author says that even in Iran they did not react to this "show-off".
    To imagine that carrier-based aviation will effectively fight with land, even with a less modern one, is really funny.
  16. +5
    4 March 2013 10: 47
    The article is interesting, but not indisputable. The story of the Dreadnought repeats itself! Very expensive to build and maintain a ship. With implicit combat effectiveness.
    But, YaSU gives the vessel an unlimited navigation area. Size matters! A powerful demonstrator of power and technology. By the volume of premises and spaces it is a floating military base with an airfield!
    Another article suggests that one of the main drawbacks of Nimitz is the F-18 Hornet. This is the same as scolding an airfield, because it has an excellent runway, good equipment, but airplanes are shit!
    Russia also plans to build aircraft carriers. And they will be based on deck MIGs and SU ... If our excellent planes are sold to Amers, on Nimitz, then according to the author, the ship will suddenly become the best ???? !!!!
    In short, when they scold a biting dog, they always say that it also has fleas ...
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 10: 57
      Russia also plans to build aircraft carriers. And based on them will be deck MIGs and SU ... If you sell them to Amers, at Nimitz, then according to the author, the ship will be excellent ???? !!!!

      Yes, then ... Yes, is there already a concept for a new aircraft carrier? Only one thing is clear so far - we won’t take the path of the Americans. Something new is needed.
      1. Dest. 956
        +1
        4 March 2013 14: 04
        As usual, our sailor is unusually curious and extremely playful. Running along the corridor of the only aircraft carrier in Russia, he thoughtlessly poked a button on a cute unsealed device with his dirty finger with a gnawed nail, and when he heard a loud pop and the sound of pouring water behind the bulkhead, he happily jumped and rushed steal butter in a bread slicer. What does he care that within a few seconds he put out of action more than a hundred of the world's best air-to-air anti-aircraft missiles, for each of which the once fraternal Ukraine fights us by the best world standards from above one hundred thousand dollars. Radzevsky G.A. Commander of the 7th OPESK of the Northern Fleet.
        1. +2
          4 March 2013 19: 20
          Air-to-air anti-aircraft missiles? is this a joke?))
          1. 0
            4 March 2013 20: 16
            Delta,
            In what sense is a joke? And what about airplanes that cannot shoot down cruise missiles or anti-ship missiles?
            1. 0
              4 March 2013 22: 55
              in the sense that an anti-aircraft missile - by definition, a surface-to-air missile)))
  17. +3
    4 March 2013 11: 21
    That’s because a man as aircraft carriers hates, but apparently he has few supporters, so the irritation from the old disputes, clearly not positive in his direction, skips in phrases. He chose the most epic phrases in my opinion when writing which the author was clearly at the peak of gloating:
    "American pilots will be washed in blood"
    "The unfortunate Hornet is unable to lift even a large-caliber bomb."
    "either half-disassembled at the docks in Brementon and Newport News"
  18. +5
    4 March 2013 11: 30
    With all respect, but this is pure hatred.
  19. apiarian1
    +5
    4 March 2013 11: 50
    The article was written clearly by a person, not with a cold head.
  20. +1
    4 March 2013 11: 51
    Well, he opened the eyes of us unreasonable. It remains only to quietly rejoice - how much dough potential "partners" are pouring into the construction and maintenance of the aircraft carrier fleet! We will wait until they are completely ripped apart, then we will send there heels of a large landing craft with a tug and a tanker - let America be defeated ...
    Would you like to order a dozen more "Rooks" by this time? Something long ago did not hear the news about the launching of these monsters ...
    1. politruk419
      +2
      4 March 2013 13: 22
      Quote: TRex
      It remains only to quietly rejoice - how much dough potential "partners" are pouring into the construction and maintenance of the aircraft carrier fleet!

      Apparently we will not be happy for long. Four aircraft carriers go on conservation three more in modernization with murky prospects.
      The American "bobby" is not dead yet, of course. But all the signs of plague and ringworm are there. Loot runs out even in the conditions of an unstoppable FRS printing press. Something sad somehow became in the Gad kingdom.
      However, we are not the ones in 83m. request
  21. +4
    4 March 2013 12: 01
    article minus. the author was not mistaken indicating that everything consists of errors.

    although the main load during air raids on a regular airfield, but the presence of an additional 50 attack aircraft has never bothered, because an aircraft carrier is an additional airfield.

    "No aircraft carriers and landing Mistrals will replace the heels of normal airfields with a two-kilometer" concrete "."
    they do not replace, they complement
    "The only" narrow "niche in which modern aircraft carriers can be used is the air defense of the squadron in the open ocean. But for solving defensive tasks, the power of the Nimitz is excessive. To provide the air defense of the ship's connection, a light aircraft carrier with a pair of fighter squadrons and AWACS helicopters is enough."
    excessive power does not happen (because it allows you to use the reserve), but its lack often leads to defeat.
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 13: 12
      Quote: Andy
      they do not replace, they complement

      Nobody needs such a wretched "addition" - see the chronicle of local wars
      Quote: Andy
      interfered, because the aircraft carrier is an additional airfield.

      US Air Force 800 bases on all continents
      Quote: Andy
      power is never excessive

      It happens
      Quote: Andy
      but its lack often leads to defeat.

      Poor americos crying 800 bases around the world
      1. 0
        4 March 2013 13: 50
        do you, like the author, propose to fly planes through the English Channel to Libya using refuellers instead of to fit aircraft carriers? we don’t take into account the loss of time and wear of equipment? moreover, an escort is not a ballast, there carriers of cruise missiles are another argument.
        1. +1
          4 March 2013 14: 54
          Quote: Andy
          do you, like the author, propose to fly planes through the English Channel to Libya using refuellers instead of to fit aircraft carriers?

          The life cycle of Nimitz is estimated at 40 billion (purely ship, without airplanes). Nimitsev need to build two (one always sticks out in the dock for repairs) - total 80 billion dollars.

          F-15E Strike Needle flight costs $ 20 000 / hour

          Instead of building an aircraft carrier, the F-15E can have 4 000 000 hours in the air - at the cruising speed of the F-15Е (900 km / h), this is enough to fly 3,6 billion kilometers.
          24 times fly from Earth to the Sun or 90 000 times fly around the Earth at the equator. This reserve is enough for hundreds of years of daily sorties on the route Great Britain - Libya))))))))))))))

          Are you worried about the English Channel)))))
          1. -1
            4 March 2013 15: 00
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            The F-15E can be in the air for 4 hours - at the cruising speed of the F-000E (000 km / h) this is enough to fly 15 billion kilometers.
            24 times fly from Earth to the Sun or 90 000 times fly around the Earth at the equator. This reserve is enough for hundreds of years of daily sorties on the route Great Britain - Libya))))))))))))))



            I wonder why the planes write off for the development of the resource? Well they are eternal ...
            1. +1
              4 March 2013 17: 45
              Aircraft engine resource does not exceed 200 hours (taking into account work on the ground). Then -replace. They did not try to change in the air. Then I advise you to try. It can work out.
          2. +1
            4 March 2013 15: 20
            Do I re-upload the calculations? :) laughing
          3. 0
            16 March 2013 15: 26
            if
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Nimitz’s life cycle is estimated at 40 billion (pure ship, no aircraft)

            Did you try to calculate the construction and maintenance of the airdrome (together with the maintenance staff)? As well as land rental, if the airfield is not on its territory. Plus the costs of diplomacy with the landlord? I think the numbers will be slightly adjusted in favor of Avma.
  22. +3
    4 March 2013 12: 12
    Although the fleet and aviation is not my topic, but allow me to wedge wink Any weapon, whatever it is, on whatever opinion, is stupid and unnecessary in the first place is just a weapon. A weapon has a certain potential that a person realizes. So, even if the potential of the weapon is low, but the weapon is fully revealed it becomes perfect. That's what I'm saying. No matter how aircraft carriers are called, no matter how they are used in peacetime, but how effective they will turn out to be completely dependent on the command, and of course good luck. And this applies not only to aircraft carriers, but anything. One has a machine gun in his hands, another has a weighty stone, and both can be harmful to health, but if one is stupid, then even armed with a machine gun he will lie with his head pierced with a stone.

    THERE ARE NO BAD WEAPONS, JUST JUST NOT ABLE TO USE!
  23. +2
    4 March 2013 12: 13
    "Nimitz" is similar in name to "Tirpitz" ... smile
    It seems to me that there is no special need for aircraft carriers for our Navy. For effective defense we have Strategic Missile Forces and SSBNs. And since we do not introduce "democracy" into the masses, then there is nothing to spend. It is necessary to develop space forces. And all these surface aircraft carriers were relevant in the last century. What is the use of them? The rocket flew in (or with a laser from a satellite wink ) and yeah ...
  24. +1
    4 March 2013 12: 31
    ahem. And we, too, have a big boat.
    1. +3
      4 March 2013 12: 37
      True, but he is only one and his few crying
  25. +3
    4 March 2013 12: 37
    Quote: AlNikolaich
    the article suggests that one of the main shortcomings of Nimitz is the F-18 Hornet.

    As I understand it, the article suggests that, in principle, full-fledged fighters cannot be based on an aircraft carrier.
    1. +4
      4 March 2013 12: 46
      What is a big mistake, because they can and how :))
      1. +1
        4 March 2013 13: 07
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        What is a big mistake, because they can and how :))


        A-6 carrier-based attack aircraft were a complete squalor against the backdrop of the F-111
        Hornet is always weaker than F-15 and F-15E
        promising deck F-35 is weaker than F-22

        It is simply insulting to compare the E-2 Hawkeye carrier-based AWACS aircraft with the E-3 Sentry ground-based AWACS aircraft - the mass of radio electronics on board the Sentry exceeds the Hawkeye carrier-based aircraft wink Onboard Sentry 19 operators and combat control officers. There are only ... three of them on board Hawkai

        And it always has been.
        1. +6
          4 March 2013 13: 41
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          A-6 carrier-based attack aircraft were a complete squalor against the backdrop of the F-111

          ??
          (heavy sigh) i.e. I also need to educate you about the A-6 and 111th? Let's do it like that, the US Navy REFUSED the "wonderful" F-111 because the 111th did not correspond at all to the tasks of the fleet. And what and why - please go to paralay http://www.paralay.com/f111/f111.html
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Hornet is always weaker than F-15 and F-15E

          wassat But nothing that actually F / A-18 Hornet NEVER and NOBODY created as an analogue of the F-15? Nothing that F / A-18 is actually the F-16 MARINE ANALOGUE :)))))
          A bit of history - when the US Air Force announced a competition for a light fighter, 2 models were presented - YF-16 from General Dynamics and YF-17 from Northrop. Won YF-16 subsequently became famous F-16 Fighting Folkon
          However, around the same time, an air combat fighter program for the Navy (NACF, Navy Air Combat Fighter) was launched. Due to a reduction in military spending during this period, the program did not provide for the development of a new aircraft from scratch, but the adaptation of existing projects. The US Navy was skeptical of the single-engine YF-16 and chose to choose the twin-engine YF-17. Northrops finalized it along with McDonell-Douglas - a company with extensive experience in the development of deck cars. After some time, the project became the property of McDonell Douglas.
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          It is simply offensive to compare the E-2 Hawkeye carrier-based AWACS aircraft with the E-3 Sentry ground-based AWACS aircraft.

          Yeah, but considering my phrase
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          What is a big mistake, because they can and how :))

          Was the answer to
          Quote: Atash
          As I understand it, the article suggests that in principle they cannot be based on an aircraft carrier full fighters.

          Then it remains for you to explain how you managed to record Hokai and Sentry in fighter jets laughing
          1. +1
            4 March 2013 13: 58
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I also need to educate you about the A-6 and 111th? Let's do it like that, the US Navy REFUSED the "wonderful" F-111 because the 111th did not correspond at all to the tasks of the fleet.

            As a result, "unusable" F-111 destroyed half the world
            And the importance of US Navy carrier-based aviation was negligible in all local conflicts
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            But nothing that actually F / A-18 Hornet NEVER and NOBODY created as an analogue of the F-15

            It doesn't bother Su-27 and Su-35
            In a battle with real air superiority fighters of the Su-27 level, the deck Hornet is doomed
            1. +2
              4 March 2013 14: 25
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              As a result, "unusable" F-111 destroyed half the world

              In the second half of the world, for some reason, this is neither a rumor nor a spirit :)))))
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              And the importance of US Navy carrier-based aviation was negligible in all local conflicts

              Aha :))))
              16 On June 1966, the Skyhawks and the Crusaders from Hancock attacked the Thanh Hoa oil storage facility, initiating a systematic bombardment of important DRV infrastructure. The intensity of the use of carrier-based aviation was continuously increasing; in 1968 year more than 25 000 sorties were made with aircraft carriers. During September 1972, with six aircraft carriers (Hancock, Oriskani, Midway, Kitty Hawk, Saratoga and America), 3934 sorties were carried out, and for six months from May to October of that same year - 23 652. Only in the 1972 year, carrier-based aircraft dropped bombs of various calibers on Vietnam 160 763.
              Since May 1972, the Americans began a massive mining of approaches to North Vietnamese ports. Mine installations carried out deck aircraft. They started with the “intruders” and “corsairs” with “Kitty Hawk” and “Coral Sea”; in total over the following 8 months, more than 11 000 mines Mk-36 and Mk-52-2 were exhibited.

              I don’t know how many Intruders there flew, but compared to the above number of 4000 flights of the F-111 in Vietnam, this is sooooo awesome :))) Half of Vietnam was bombed, no less :)))))
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              It doesn't bother Su-27 and Su-35
              In a battle with real air superiority fighters of the Su-27 level, the deck Hornet is doomed

              Well, given the fact that the modification of the Su-27 (Su-33) is precisely based on the aircraft carrier ... :))))))
              1. 0
                4 March 2013 15: 03
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                6 June 1966 year, the Skyhawks and the Crusaders from Hancock hit the oil storage in Thanh Hoa

                The contribution of carrier-based aviation in the Vietnam War 30%.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Well, given the fact that the modification of the Su-27 (Su-33) is precisely based on the aircraft carrier ... :))))))

                Only flies from a ship without suspensions and weapons
                1. +2
                  4 March 2013 15: 19
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Only flies from a ship without suspensions and weapons

                  Repeatedly refuted infa. Flies in full combat, even with stametki
                  1. 0
                    4 March 2013 21: 35
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Repeatedly refuted infa. Flies in full combat

                    Class. Is there any photos?

                    In the end, we were talking about Nimitz and F / A-18.
                    Su-33 has nothing to do with it, this is a completely different story, the more it is also inferior to its "land" counterpart Su-27
                    1. +1
                      5 March 2013 16: 35
                      Photo not found. But this is written in Russian in white in "Su-33 Ship Epic" - and this is quite a serious publication. Dear Sergey VAF - confirmed.
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Su-33 has nothing to do with it, this is a completely different story, the more it is also inferior to its "land" counterpart Su-27

                      And what? Increased traction? :)) Increased suspension URVV? :)) Air refueling system? :)))
                2. +2
                  4 March 2013 20: 28
                  You are lying about the lack of "suspensions", dear.

                  1. +1
                    4 March 2013 21: 33
                    Suspension nodes are empty
            2. 0
              4 March 2013 22: 36
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              It doesn't bother Su-27 and Su-35
              In a battle with real air superiority fighters of the Su-27 level, the deck Hornet is doomed

              In fact, the Su-27 is doomed against the Super Hornet. It’s still difficult to say anything definite about the Su-35, it’s under testing. Let's hope that it will be at least approximately equal to the F-18E / F. Although there is little hope for this ....
              1. -1
                4 March 2013 23: 26
                Quote: Odyssey
                In fact, the Su-27 is doomed against the Super Hornet. It’s still difficult to say anything specific about Su-35, it’s undergoing tests. We hope that it will be at least approximately equal to F-18E / F

                Trickster. In the 1991 year there were no Super Horns
                But F-15C, F-15E and Su-27 have already flown, surpassing the miserable F / A-18C / D in all performance characteristics

                When the Super Horn appeared, ashore the cars of a completely different level — the Su-35 and F-22 Raptor — went ahead in the series, surpassing both the Super Horn and the promising F-35. Let's see what kind of beast will be PAK FA.
                1. +1
                  6 March 2013 00: 19
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Trickster. In the 1991 year there were no Super Horns
                  But F-15C, F-15E and Su-27 have already flown, surpassing the miserable F / A-18C / D in all performance characteristics

                  This is you sly)) At first they claimed that Hornet was doomed in an air battle with the Su-27, Su-35. And then they abruptly switched to 1991.
                  If we are talking about 1991, then where does the Su-35?
                  And then I am happy with your patriotism, but between us the F-18C with AN / APG-73 and AIM-120 had a significant advantage over the Su-27 in the DVB. With a small advantage of the Su-27 in the BVB.
                  That is, only over the first version of the F-18, the Su-27 had an advantage in DVB. And that is not a fact.
                  .
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  When the Super Horn appeared, ashore the cars of a completely different level — the Su-35 and F-22 Raptor — went ahead in the series, surpassing both the Super Horn and the promising F-35. Let's see what kind of beast will be PAK FA.

                  a) Su-35 in combat regiments is absent, and Super Hornets more than 500 pieces.
                  b) The F-22 is indeed better than the F-18, but not due to the fact that it is "land-based". But due to the lower RCS with better radar.
                  c) The F-35 will be the main fighter of the US Air Force. I hope you won't argue that the "land" F-35 is better than the "sea"?
                  Remember the movie "The Man from Boulevard des Capuchins"? There was a cute phrase - "-He didn't like cinematography"
                  To paraphrase, we can say about you - "He did not like the F-18 Hornet" smile
    2. 0
      4 March 2013 13: 08
      High-grade - what are these? Yet a fighter on an aircraft carrier and a fighter on an airfield are two different things. And the sea is not yet comparable with land in many ways. And they (parameters), as you know, are very closely interconnected.
  26. +1
    4 March 2013 12: 40
    It's funny As always, the truth lies in the middle. Deck aircraft are really weaker than field ones. Reducing the weight of the combat load due to the specifics of the ship's runway, catapult performance, increasing the weight of the deck aircraft glider (the wing and its folding mechanism weighs decently) is a fact. The size of the aircraft carrier is certainly considerable. Ours tried to make aircraft with vertical take-off and landing. Only this is even more overweight vehicles with even more reduced ammunition. When the Yak was hanging over the deck, several people could push it overboard holding onto the wing (unless, of course, it would blow them there). Maybe you really need to overestimate the role of existing aircraft carriers? However, the use of 5th generation aircraft with low take-off and landing (thanks to the same Yakovlev) and unique weapons can modify ships and change the concept of their use.
  27. +3
    4 March 2013 12: 41
    The author voiced his own desires)))
    It remains to sympathize with the stupid Americans, investing money anywhere)))
    But seriously, all these slogans and theses a la "pile up", "knock down in batches", "americos tupni" are already sick. For the result is just the opposite, and it is expressed in the fact that the States dictate their will to the whole world. It’s hard to suspect them of anything, because it’s impractical. Whether someone likes it or not, it's a fact. Maybe you need to change the slogans to work?

    What will happen in the future - time will tell. It will also show whether the USA is a giant or a clay-footed giant. In the meantime, you need to think about the present and not cry about your past power.
    1. Prospector
      -2
      5 March 2013 01: 54
      but the truth will show that America is a colossus on clay feet, aircraft carriers will be a thing of the past just like the battleships, once the most powerful ships ... when I heard about the exercises ... virtual, were conducted by the Americans .. on the one hand the aircraft carrier group with another in my opinion is Iranian or a boat .... the point is that there were big losses of Americans .... an aircraft carrier is a big target ... not very fast ... albeit with security ... but still .. they are more a factor of intimidation )))
      1. 0
        5 March 2013 13: 34
        Well, that will show, and will show, we are not given to know this, is it?)))

        Is an aircraft carrier not particularly fast? 30 knots for such a colossus is not enough ??? not every submarine is hijacked
  28. +3
    4 March 2013 12: 43
    Maybe it’s worth dividing the effectiveness of the AUG (and not the aircraft carrier) into several components?
    1. Military action against the coast. Capture of bridgeheads and support of ground forces. The indicative flogging (bombing) of a third-rate country can not be considered.
    2. Actions to destroy the enemy fleet, acting under the cover of coastal defense, and without it in the open ocean.
    3. The stability of the AUG itself against the actions of aviation and the navy, including during landing operations.
    And so everyone mixed in a bunch, peppered with emotions. and nothing is clear. Maybe specialists speak out?
  29. 0
    4 March 2013 12: 46
    The author is a huge plus. Although he may be mistaken for some reason, the main conclusions are correct. In the modern world, an aircraft carrier is an expensive and dubious pleasure. Indeed, for effective use it will have to be driven 700 km to the shore. You can find it at this distance. A country with normal aviation and air defense as well as a submarine fleet will cope with this quite quickly. By the way, there was simply no way to attack AUG. For reasons not related to its invincibility. I believe that the construction of our AUG is simply a waste of resources. Build a normal coastal defense fleet first. AUG simply do not fit into our doctrine and to change it and 40 tr. will not be enough. Think of one modern clark that can destroy the entire AUG. And aviation (air defense) will not let you fly (fly) here and search for it unless of course you have them.
    1. 0
      7 March 2013 17: 54
      Yes, what you squeak, but the warrant will never work where you can get it, dear, Even in the Iraqi company AUG hit from the Gulf of ADEN, MEDITERRANEAN, Just look at the map and tell if IRAQ could get them with anything, Only a group in the Persian Gulf,
  30. 0
    4 March 2013 13: 00
    What to print in Russian, they have a budget sequester there, let them translate and prepare the soil, and IMHO is debatable.
  31. 0
    4 March 2013 13: 16
    Quote: djon3volta
    transformers do not exist in nature and everyone knows this


    Transformers do not exist ????
  32. 0
    4 March 2013 13: 21
    Yes, it’s interesting to read this ... it turns out to be sheer minuses and not an aircraft carrier, especially in a power plant. Avtyr do you even imagine how much such a colossus as Nimitz ate per hour of fuel oil?
  33. +1
    4 March 2013 13: 38
    Kind! The article is controversial. If the article provides information that 85-90 aircraft can be "crammed" into an aircraft carrier, then 500 attack aircraft are at least 6 aircraft carriers with all auxiliary ships. With regard to a full-scale war with major powers, such a surface grouping is an excellent target for weapons of mass destruction and all at once to the bottom, 1 tablet is enough. It seems to me that the range of goals and objectives of these giants in the modern world has somewhat narrowed. And as it turned out in the light of recent events, and as a punishing sword for "not democratic" countries, they are also not suitable, so it turns out that they go back and forth and the team, so as not to get bored in basketball, plays during the hike.
  34. +2
    4 March 2013 13: 48
    I am not an expert in this matter, moreover, I am not even an amateur ... but I have some opinion. Studying the issue of aircraft carriers it is necessary to look comprehensively, considering their history and development paths. The AUG of the US Navy came out on the basis of the experience of waging a war in the Pacific against the Japanese imperial fleet. Over time, the concepts of their application have repeatedly changed, but their AUG should be recognized as a fleet in miniature, and the fleet is balanced and able to perform completely different tasks.
    To date, such a fleet is the most optimal and represents the crown of the development of the Navy, and other states should strive for it (which, for example, France, China and India are doing). The Soviet Navy, as it may sound seditious, was created precisely as a complete antagonist to the US Navy. Without its counterpart, it looked like it was very "one-sidedly developed." Only towards the end of the 80 of the USSR did the US take the path and began to create a semblance of AUG. Therefore, I have a question for the author: could the Commanders-in-Chief of the USSR really be mistaken, considering the enemy’s ACG very strong?
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 14: 14
      Quote: Skuto
      The AUG of the US Navy came out on the basis of the experience of waging a war in the Pacific against the Japanese imperial fleet.

      With the advent of jet aircraft, air refueling systems, and nuclear weapons, the value of carrier-based aviation has declined to a microscopic value
      Quote: Skuto
      Therefore, I have a question for the author: could the Commanders-in-Chief of the USSR really be mistaken, considering the enemy’s ACG very strong?

      They were not mistaken. The surface component of the USSR Navy had a pronounced anti-submarine focus
      Large anti-submarine ships - the name is familiar? - the fight against the enemy’s nuclear submarines was the main task of all Soviet cruisers and destroyers in the 60-80 years
      Anti-submarine helicopter carriers pr. 1123 "Krechet"?
      Even large TAVKRs carried powerful anti-submarine weapons

      Soviet commanders knew that one killer of cities "George Washington" is more dangerous than a hundred aircraft carriers
      1. 0
        4 March 2013 15: 33
        However, for some reason, they created their own surface and submarine ships, which were later dubbed "aircraft carrier killers." Those. to counteract the AUGs. So there was something to be afraid of these "useless troughs". And our submarines were most often tracking the AUGs. Why would it be, the author? with stupidity?
        1. 0
          4 March 2013 15: 39
          Quote: Delta
          created their own surface and submarine ships, which were later dubbed "aircraft carrier killers." Those. to counter specifically AUG

          First, the "aircraft carrier killers" had many other tasks besides chasing the AUGs.

          Secondly, there were few killer aircraft carriers and they were worth a mere penny in the battle with Nimits
          Quote: Delta
          And our submarines conducted tracking most often precisely for AUGs.

          It's a delusion. There are much more "fatty targets" - the transports of the Shipping Command
          1. +2
            4 March 2013 16: 12
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            First, the "aircraft carrier killers" had many other tasks besides chasing the AUGs.

            laughing And to list? :))) Here, for example, the whole variety of tasks of the 949 project :)))
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Secondly, there were few killer aircraft carriers and they were worth a mere penny in the battle with Nimits

            Calculation in the studio :))))))
            1. +2
              4 March 2013 20: 53
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Here, for example, the whole variety of tasks of the 949 project

              Fight against surface targets. By any.

              Is it good to put such a barge to the bottom? Fleet transport USNS Bob Hope Maritime Command with 100 Abrams on board
              1. 0
                4 March 2013 21: 03
                Is this the same former Soviet gas turbo ship?
                1. -2
                  4 March 2013 21: 23
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Is this the same former Soviet gas turbo ship?

                  no it's a bob hope series

                  In total, the USA has 115 of such machines. Ten miserable Nimitsees didn’t lie nearby with such power.
              2. -1
                5 March 2013 13: 11
                The more you eat, the faster it will sink
              3. +1
                5 March 2013 15: 04
                Pound with granites on this shadow of horseradish ?! !!
                What a joker you are, my friend :)))
        2. Stalinets
          0
          4 March 2013 16: 41
          I absolutely agree with you. Yes
  35. +3
    4 March 2013 13: 59
    I think so, it all depends on our military doctrine and the concept of the Navy and Air Force application! AG is not needed to protect its territory ... I agree with
    "JonnyT (3) RU Today, 10:19 new - 5 + ....... missile cruisers are better, and more practical and cheaper"
    He wrote, we don’t have to chase the USA, they were chasing us, and what did it lead to? the collapse of the USSR, as practice shows, the first in this business always do not live long, self-destruct ....
    Let us be second, but more effective! and war, God forbid, will show who is the first on the planet ...
    We’ll have to fight .... Suvorov, yesterday Pozner found out about Marinesko .... and dr. Primary-people, personality, and the instrument is secondary ..
  36. wax
    0
    4 March 2013 14: 05
    And yet, it seems to me that the golden age of aircraft carriers is becoming a thing of the past. In a "good" war, aircraft carriers are a clear and clumsy target that can be hit outside the range of aircraft carriers. A colonial war is too expensive a pleasure.
    1. 0
      4 March 2013 19: 26
      A "good" war is probably a nuclear one. Then there will be no use for aircraft carriers or tanks or much more. With local - they (aircraft carriers) are just enough. In any case, there is still enough for psychological impact. We have not seen anything else, we have not yet observed that Iraq or someone else gouged at least one American aircraft carrier, so all the author's theses are his assumptions bordering on dreams
  37. -1
    4 March 2013 14: 49
    Quote: Skuto
    Therefore, I have a question for the author: could the Commanders-in-Chief of the USSR really be mistaken, considering the enemy’s ACG very strong?

    Yes, I think they were wrong. At that time, we chased after the amers and overstrained. Having an aircraft carrier for any admiral is a prestige, and what it will become of little concern to them (and rightly so). You just have to cool their ardor sometimes. A fresh example, we chased the technology of stealth as a result of a series of corvettes 20380 closed 20385 will not build. 18000000000 for a small boat. The frigate 11356 is twice as large in displacement. A cheetah corvette costs three times less and the possibilities are slightly less. Therefore, do not chase fashionable gadgets; you need to find an inexpensive and effective answer.
  38. 0
    4 March 2013 15: 10
    Here it is worth remembering that the concept of using aircraft carriers and AUGs in the US Navy was formed during the WWII.
    Having such a wealth of positive experience in using this type of ship, the states are unlikely to hasten to abandon aircraft carriers.
  39. 0
    4 March 2013 15: 17
    The neighbor neighbors especially hated the neighbor's cow when she died.
    It is necessary to find asymmetric methods for these wolf packs.

    Quote: Wax
    In the colonial war - too expensive a treat.

    Colonial war is not cheap in itself. Usually, devidents cover expenses.
  40. +3
    4 March 2013 15: 33
    Very strange article.
    Dominance over the sea is dominance over the world. And aircraft carriers (more precisely, AUGs) are the main means of dominance at sea starting from World War II (before that, battleships were this means)
    These are all strategic axioms.
    The USSR did not have a convenient exit to the World Ocean (in fact, it was the main strategic problem of the USSR) and did not have the economic opportunity to get involved with the United States in the "aircraft carrier" race. Therefore, it built its strategy at sea "by contradiction" with an emphasis on the submarine fleet (although the admirals asked Central Committee on the construction of aircraft carriers)
    Now China is going to compete with the United States for world domination. Accordingly, as soon as economic and technical conditions allowed, the construction of a full-fledged carrier fleet began in China.
    According to the factology of the article which substantiates such strange conclusions, everything has already been passed here. Everything is wrong or doubtful there. From geopolitics (for example, Iran "was not afraid" of Nimitzov because they are useless for anything), ending with technology (for example, Hornet is a "bad" plane, which cannot take off with a large bomb)
    1. +2
      4 March 2013 19: 05
      Quote: Odyssey
      Dominance over the sea is dominion over the world

      Stupidity. The blue-green water surface is of no value - it cannot be captured or destroyed.
      It can only be about control over maritime communications, but aircraft carriers here are the last argument
      Quote: Odyssey
      aircraft carriers (more precisely, AUGs) have been the main means of supremacy at sea since 2 world

      Since the end of World War II, the world has irreversibly changed.
      Jet planes with a combat radius of 1500 km appeared
      Precision weapons and cruise missiles appeared, air refueling systems, the evolution of air defense systems - all this put a bold cross on the idea of ​​an "airfield in the ocean"
      1. +1
        4 March 2013 20: 36
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Stupidity. The blue-green water surface is of no value - it cannot be captured or destroyed

        Actually, this is the key axiom of geopolitics. Alpha and Omega are the policies of the strongest powers in the world of the British Empire, and then the USA.
        The sea is a great connector, and the basis of world domination is control over the countries of the 3rd world (formerly colonies)
        "The invisible hand of the market, does not function without the invisible fist" Aircraft carriers are one of the key elements of this fist.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Jet planes with a combat radius of 1500 km appeared
        High-precision weapons and cruise missiles appeared, air refueling systems, the evolution of air defense systems - all this put a bold cross on the idea of ​​an "airfield in the ocean

        This is all an abstraction. In fact, not one country in the world has such a set of weapons (except for America itself, of course). Once upon a time, all this was with the USSR (except for precision weapons), in the future, China and possibly India.
        In practice, the development of "high-precision weapons" does not in the least interfere with the use of AUGs. And of course it will not interfere, especially since a large number of these high-precision weapons are in the presence of AUGs.
        PS And then, as I already wrote, it is completely incomprehensible why you are making your "discoveries" for the Russian-speaking public? After all, we have no aircraft carriers (except for the semi-comatose Kuznetsov), and it is not expected.
        Write to the Pentagon, to Beijing, to London. Because they’re fools and don’t know that aircraft carriers are not needed. And for some reason everyone is building them and building them smile
        1. 0
          4 March 2013 20: 49
          Quote: Odyssey
          Sea Great Connector

          An argument from the 19th century.
          Modern passenger Boeing flies over the ocean in 7 hours
          Quote: Odyssey
          and the basis of world domination is control over the countries of the 3 world (formerly colonies)

          What does not suit 800 military bases on all continents?
          Quote: Odyssey
          In fact, not one country in the world has such a set of weapons (except for America itself, of course

          It was originally about the US Navy and American aircraft carriers.
          With that number of bases and aircraft, America does not have any "airfields at sea"
          Quote: Odyssey
          a large number of these high-precision weapons just in the presence of AUG and be.

          Tomahawks beat the destroyer Burke and the Ohio boat.
          The aircraft carrier is out of business.
          1. +2
            5 March 2013 01: 19
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Tomahawks beat the destroyer Burke and the Ohio boat.
            The aircraft carrier is out of business.

            It’s not entirely clear why you separate the Nimitza from the rest of the ACG. They do not go alone))
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            An argument from the 19th century.
            Modern passenger Boeing flies over the ocean in 7 hours

            What does the Boeing have to do with it? With the help of ACG, you can cut off sea communications of almost any country, successfully attack almost any country with the help of the Kyrgyz Republic and aviation. Is it possible to do this with the help of a Boeing? )))
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            What does not suit 800 military bases on all continents?

            Think non-dialectically)) Before you get a military base in a country, you need to force it to this, or agree with it about it.
            For example, in order to get an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in the form of Japan, the United States had to win the war at sea against it. And with the help of aircraft carriers. And in order to "persuade" its partners to deploy bases, aircraft carriers are very useful. military bases already exist, it is stupid to use only aircraft carriers. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Military power must be comprehensive.
            1. +2
              5 March 2013 16: 36
              Quote: Odyssey
              It’s not entirely clear why you separate the Nimitza from the rest of the ACG. They do not go alone))

              They go)))
              The coalition is easily dispensed with aircraft carriers in a local war. Aircraft carriers are simply NOT NEEDED there.
              But the Coalition cannot do without the Tomahawks. This is one of the key points of the operation. Missile cruisers and submarines from the Kyrgyz Republic are needed

              In 1999, the cruisers began to destroy Serbia from the first hour of the operation. The aircraft carrier came only on the 12 day of the war. Libya - similarly, there are no aircraft carriers, submarines are shooting. (in the photo - Florida, released by Gaddafi 93 Ax)
              Quote: Odyssey
              With the help of AUG you can cut off the sea communications of almost any

              This is how?))) Nimitz raids in the South China Sea? Vikramaditsya drowns convoys in the Atlantic?))))))
              Quote: Odyssey
              For example, in order to obtain an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in the form of Japan, the United States had to win the war at sea against it. And with the help of aircraft carriers

              Yes, is it really?
              Or maybe with the help of 1000 bases on the islands of the Pacific Ocean (Operation Magic Carpet)?)))) Or B-29 bombers? Nuclear bombs? Or 500 destroyers? Or maybe help from the USSR, which defeated the Kwantung group?))))

              Most of the losses the Japanese fleet suffered from submarines and fire from cruisers and battleships of the US Navy. US Navy - similarly, the main losses: artillery fire, submarines, kamikaze. But not Japanese carrier-based aircraft.
              1. 0
                5 March 2013 23: 15
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                They go)))
                The coalition is easily dispensed with aircraft carriers in a local war. Aircraft carriers are simply NOT NEEDED there.
                But the Coalition cannot do without the Tomahawks. This is one of the key points of the operation. Missile cruisers and submarines from the Kyrgyz Republic are needed

                Well, if you just go for a walk))
                I hope you will not deny that the AUG includes not only aircraft carriers?
                As for local wars, when there is an opportunity to cope without them, aircraft carriers are not attracted, when there is no opportunity, they are attracted.
                The Libyan example is completely unsuccessful. For political reasons, the Americans were not very active in this operation, leaving most of their work to their European satellites. And the aircraft carriers were there, with two Charles de Gaulle and Giusepe Garibaldi.
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                This is how?))) Nimitz raids in the South China Sea? Vikramaditsya drowns convoys in the Atlantic?))))))

                Very simple - a couple of Nimitzes come up to the shores of, say, Brazil and begin to implement an "embargo" on the supply of something prohibited. In fact, this means that no one will leave Brazil without the permission of the Americans and no one will sail there.
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Yes, is it really?
                Or maybe with the help of 1000 bases on the Pacific Islands (Operation "Magic Carpet")?)))) Or B-29 bombers? Nuclear bombs? Or 500 destroyers? Or maybe help from the USSR, which defeated the Kwantung group?)))

                Well, I wrotewith the help of aircraft carriers..and not just aircraft carriers. Once again, why put all the eggs in one basket?
                And then, the events you describe are related to the late part of the conflict. The United States achieved decisive advantages at sea thanks to aircraft carriers. Just as all the successes of the Japanese fleet at the beginning of the war were associated with Japanese aircraft carriers. But the battleships showed their vulnerability, and by and large its uselessness. Therefore, after World War II, this class of ships ceased to exist. Aircraft carriers finally began to rule the sea.
                1. -1
                  6 March 2013 11: 26
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Libya example is completely unsuccessful

                  And what does not like the examples of Yugoslavia and Iraq?
                  Iraq - on the share of carrier-based aviation 17% of sorties and 6% of bombs used.
                  And six AUG tried it, disgrace
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  And two are Charles De Gaulle and Giuseppe Garibaldi.

                  And what's the point? Vseravno all decided the Air Force
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Very simple - a couple of Nimitzes come up to the shores of, say, Brazil and begin to implement an "embargo" on the supply of something prohibited

                  And Brazilian terrorists begin terrorist attacks in the United States)))

                  Classical warfare is impossible in the modern world - there are too many variants of asymmetric answers. And the United States will not openly fight with Brazil - capital and technology are too tightly connected.
                  Nimitz here in general, like a museum artifact
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Well, I wrote, with the help of aircraft carriers

                  So this, Odysseus, is a lie
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  The United States achieved decisive advantages at sea thanks to aircraft carriers

                  Sting
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  In the same way that all the successes of the Japanese fleet at the beginning of the war were associated with Japanese aircraft carriers

                  Also a lie. Fight at about. Savo, pogrom in the Yavan moment, night battleships, attacks of submarines, shelling of islands, torpedo attacks of destroyers, base aviation
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  here the battleships showed their vulnerability, and by and large their futility

                  Delusion. battleships fought like "devils" in the Pacific
                  1. 0
                    7 March 2013 18: 15
                    What are you saying and why were you so happy at the Pentagon that the fleet did even more than they planned the truth a problem arose The precision weapon ran out, the AUG cellars were emptied too quickly, they practically provided aviation with a green street,
                  2. 0
                    9 March 2013 03: 19
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    And what does not like the examples of Yugoslavia and Iraq?
                    Iraq - on the share of carrier-based aviation 17% of sorties and 6% of bombs used.
                    And six AUG tried it, disgrace

                    You write strange things. The Americans concentrated against Iraq a very powerful group with 2 goals.
                    a) Achieve victory with very little loss
                    b) Show all the world your power and demonstrate the "new rules of the game". the rules of the game of a unipolar world.
                    Of course, they could try to destroy Iraq by aircraft carriers alone, only that would be less effective, and most importantly it is completely incomprehensible, why do this?
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    And the United States will not openly fight with Brazil - capital and technology are too tightly connected.

                    On the contrary, Brazil will not go to war with the United States because they know the balance of power and therefore they are forced to accept American conditions in the economy, politics, etc. It’s one of the important elements of the balance of power-aircraft carriers.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    So this, Odysseus, is a lie

                    Not convinced smile But the discussion of the Japanese-American war at sea will take us very far)) We will discuss in a suitable topic.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Delusion. battleships fought like "devils" in the Pacific

                    And so the class of battleships after World War 2 ceased to exist. smile
                    You have peculiar strategic ideas, but they are not very comparable with practice.
                    PS I apologize that I have never answered, I did not see.
  41. Rrrrr
    0
    4 March 2013 15: 42
    I will answer))
    even ONE Granite launched towards the US Navy carrier group means World War III
    and then it doesn’t matter how many Granites hit (or missed) the aircraft carrier
    Full hell))) if they release one two, no third will be, for there are no fools on that wire.
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 16: 57
      Quote: Rrrrr
      even ONE Granite launched towards the US Navy carrier group means World War III


      Not a fact. But check, of course, is not worth it! laughing
  42. zmey
    +1
    4 March 2013 16: 22
    Here is such a "Unnecessary and Bad" aircraft carrier with all its retinue to Novorossiysk or Murmansk or Vladivostok (without crossing the state border) and what will you do with it ????? In the UN with a slipper on demand to knock ??? or to throw "poplars" ???? WHAT to do ????
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 16: 28
      Raise a dozen Tu-22M3s into the air and fly at a low level nearby? Or launch a pair of Tu-95MS or Tu-160? A pair of submarines with anti-ship missiles are already sitting in territorial waters and are holding this "airfield" at gunpoint. And finally, as a control, a pair of Topol-M launchers are guided to the position of the AUG in the sea ...
      Choose ....
    2. +3
      4 March 2013 20: 13
      Quote: zmey
      Here is such a "Unnecessary and Bad" aircraft carrier with all its retinue to Novorossiysk or Murmansk or Vladivostok (without crossing the state border) and WHAT will you do with it?

      Let it hang in neutral waters. What do we need from this?

      The Tervod of the Russian Federation will become impudent and will violate the border - it will get to the cheekbone, as received by the cruiser USS Yorktown (CG-47)
  43. +13
    4 March 2013 16: 27
    Gentlemen, for the discussion you need to have knowledge not at the level of emotions and "read on the Internet." To make it clear, the captain (in reserve) of the Air Force, specialty-aircraft armament, served in the Far Eastern Military District. Two regiments were based at our airfield - our IS and a TB regiment (Tu-22M2 and M3). The chief of the TB reconnaissance had a large photo of an aircraft carrier on his desk (taken on a Tu-16). So, as far as I remember from the school (from the tactics of the Air Force), 1 (only one) TB regiment was allocated to destroy the aircraft carrier. The task was considered completed when the aircraft carrier was destroyed (even if not a single aircraft returned). Regiment-36 aircraft-72 X-22 missiles with a warhead of one ton of explosives (more powerful than TNT). The missiles are also launched not from five meters. The aircraft practically do not enter the coverage area of ​​the ship's air defense systems (this is the main reason for the security ships being at a decent distance and around the aircraft carrier). When a missile hits the target, not only and not so much the detonation of the warhead is terrible, but its consequences. 8000 thousand tons of kerosene, even more ammunition (including ship ammunition). Such a "small fire" is formed, which cannot be extinguished by any fire extinguisher (it is useful to watch films for official use). To make it clearer, remember "Komsomolets", where the fire went from compartment to compartment through cables! The next moment. Such an aircraft carrier group will not be able to come close enough to the coast of a country that has a fleet (with heavy ships and submarines) and a coastal defense system. There will simply be nothing left of her. To operate with a couple of four planes from a distance of 200-250 km is simply ineffective - they won't even fly. And collect more at a time? Judge for yourself, I give on the example of flights of our IS regiment. Strip 40m wide (you can have four). Take off one at a time. polygon - 60 km. When flying only one squadron (10 combat and 1-2 sparks), the first one taking off comes in for landing, and the last one did not take off yet. The deck will not allow the four to take off, the interval between takeoffs (on a stationary-2-4 minutes) will be maybe more. Calculate for yourself how much the squadron will assemble (at least) in the air. While it is assembled, it is time to land first. Due to inefficiency and enormous cost in the USSR they were not built (and not because they could not). To make it clearer, I will explain. The idea of ​​railway rocket launchers belongs to the Germans. The Americans tried to implement it, spent a lot of money and time, made it and ... abandoned it. It turned out that with the length of the US railway network, it is not suitable. And in the USSR, they implemented it and created a big headache for the States. It is not for nothing that under Gorbachev they insisted on removing it from service.
    And in addition I will explain. The whole war at sea (if you are not an island state or you have no colonies) without the action of the ground forces is a mouse fuss. And to seize an acceptable beachhead from the sea from a country with a serious fleet, aviation, coastal defense and ground forces and try to wage war from it, being across the ocean, is an attempt to pass off wishful thinking. And here the author is right - all this ANG - muscle play and an attempt to intimidate. Scared - half defeated! And all the main forces of the USA are Europe. This is the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" and the main base. And in the event of a "big war", all these ANGs will be needed for one attempt to pull as many forces as possible for as long as possible (until they are destroyed) from the main-European TVD.
    1. djon3volta
      +1
      4 March 2013 17: 57
      Quote: basmach
      being across the ocean is an attempt to give out wishful thinking. And here the author is right - all these ANG are a game of muscles and an attempt to intimidate.

      now, you’re rightly saying, but many, even smart ones, are sitting here, they don’t know this! They didn’t knowingly deploy a missile defense system in Europe, because they can’t cope with Russia, even if they have 100 aircraft carriers! where will they sail to them? , in the north and south is almost not real.
    2. +1
      4 March 2013 20: 25
      We were told: "Japan is the unsinkable US aircraft carrier." But this is already an addition. So what +. It is Europe, Turkey and Japan that will be the main US aircraft carriers in case of "something".
    3. Avenger711
      -1
      4 March 2013 22: 00
      The list of countries capable of the combined efforts of air defense and the navy to repel the attack 4 AUG in the studio. Es-but obvious examples like Russia, China, France, India are not considered.

      And then statements that it is impossible to defeat a strong enemy do not say anything, and so it is clear that it is impossible if against a pair of your aircraft carriers there are 200 hundreds of fighters, the same number of strike aircraft and a fleet of 50 ships, including several cruisers like our "Moscow".
      1. -1
        5 March 2013 00: 26
        Quote: Avenger711
        List of countries capable of the combined efforts of air defense and fleet to repel the attack 4 AUG in the studio


        Israel
        Ukraine
        Iran
        Vietnam laughing crying
        Saudi Arabia
        Pakistan
        Japan
        Singapore
        South Korea
        Turkey
        Taiwan - these generally tear AUG to shreds
        2-3 of any major EU country in any combination. Great Britain, France and Germany will cope on their own.

        Naturally, Russia, China, India

        and, I wonder how the AUG will "capture", for example, the huge Australia? )))) or bomb the endless Brazilian jungle? where under each bush an automatic anti-aircraft gun or MANPADS
        1. +1
          5 March 2013 00: 56
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          or bomb the endless Brazilian jungle?

          They will not bomb the jungle)) If Brazil suddenly wants to show independence and stops working for the TNCs of the West, the US AUG couple can simply cut off their sea communications, and "your beloved" Hornets will bomb all Brazilian infrastructure in a week.
          Losses from the USA will be equal to zero.
          Everyone knows this, both in Brazil and in the USA. This is one of the factors because of which Brazil is quiet and does not rock the boat. crying
          You are kind of "naval"? It is not clear where you got such an amazing underestimation of its capabilities.
          1. +1
            5 March 2013 01: 10
            Quote: Odyssey
            and "your favorite" Hornets will bomb the entire Brazilian infrastructure in a week.

            it's a delusion.

            1991 141 tons of explosives were dropped on Iraq in 900. Alas, the Hussein regime lasted for many years until it was overthrown in 2003 by a new campaign.

            141 thousand tons of bombs - for comparison, the capacity of Nimitz 1,5 cellars - 2 thousand tons depending on the types of ammunition.
            And it turned out that the infrastructure and the army of Iraq are completely intact (otherwise, with whom did the Yankees fight in the year 2003?)
            1. +2
              5 March 2013 23: 37
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              it's a delusion.

              In Iraq in 1991, 141 tons of explosives were dropped. Alas, the Hussein regime lasted for many years until it was overthrown in 900 by a new campaign

              There is no delusion.
              Of course, not 3, not even 5 AUGs would not have dropped Hussein's "regime" alone.
              But it's not that.
              You reason completely in Russian. And this is wonderful. smile For you, the war on the ruins of Stalingrad is just beginning.
              But the overwhelming majority of politicians do not think so at all. Moreover, they absolutely do not want such a future for their country as Iraq and for themselves such a fate as Hussein. Therefore, it is absolutely not necessary to hammer every country into the Stone Age. In most cases, it’s enough threats of sanctions, and even more so threats of the use of force.
              Never forget that a weapon is not needed on its own, like a toy. And it is needed as tool for specific political and economic benefits. And the aircraft carriers are just perfect for the role of such an instrument.
              It is easy to guess that otherwise practical Americans would not have kept them in the fleet and did not spend a lot of money on their construction and maintenance.
              1. 0
                6 March 2013 12: 06
                Quote: Odyssey
                And aircraft carriers just perfectly fit the role of such an instrument.

                and 800 airbases are not suitable?

                you need xnumx tins
                Quote: Odyssey
                practical Americans simply would not keep them in the fleet and did not spend a lot of money on their construction and maintenance

                Look at the US national debt.
                with an unpaid loan you can build at least a starship
                1. 0
                  9 March 2013 03: 26
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  and 800 airbases are not suitable?

                  you need xnumx tins

                  And 800 bases fit, and 10 tins useful to them.
                  I repeat, military power must be comprehensive
                  .
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Look at the US national debt.
                  with an unpaid loan you can build at least a starship

                  Since, unfortunately, they are not building starships ...
                  Amer indeed has a lot of money, but not a dimensionless amount at all.
                  After 1991, many projects of great value to the American military were either reduced or completely closed. Indeed, in what, in what, and the practicality of the Americans cannot be denied.
    4. 0
      5 March 2013 00: 15
      All war at sea (if you are not an island state or you do not have colonies) without the actions of ground forces-mouse fuss

      You proceed from a defensive doctrine. But when we brought missiles to Cuba, the sea war was a very serious prospect in terms of consequences.
      1. +1
        5 March 2013 11: 40
        And you read the history of why the missiles were transported to Cuba. An analogue of this story is the placement of the Pershing in Europe. Short flight time, the absence of warning systems - this alone is a guarantee of an inevitable retaliatory strike. And what about the mouse fuss, remember the battle for Britain And how it all ended. A bunch of downed planes and sunken ships (including Hood and Bismarck) But the Germans were never able to land the troops. And a little earlier, near Dunkirk, the Germans destroyed the British Expeditionary Force (only Hitler's order to suspend the attack for a couple of days allowed the British to take out the remnants of the troops, abandoning all the equipment). Next - the war in North Africa. Rommel and the Angles chased each other along the coast and so on throughout the war (both armies were on a kind of platform heads and were supplied by sea until the Angles built a railway). And the last example. The United States did not open the 2nd front for various reasons (although they had a lot of aircraft carriers to 44, they were in no hurry to send them to England). And one of them is the lack of a reliable base. And only by 44, having created such a base from England, having accumulated material resources, having overtaken the LAND aviation, they started a war, although everything had to be delivered through the English Channel. but that was also a big problem. Basmach
  44. +1
    4 March 2013 16: 32
    Well, as I understand it, this is for me

    Another interesting myth: the modern aircraft carrier plays the role of the colonial cruiser of the British Empire in Zanzibar.



    You can say the author confirmed my opinion from the very beginning of the article.
    Attack nuclear aircraft carrier "John K. Stennis" together with the ships of the escort sent to the zone of the Persian Gulf ... The nuclear aircraft carrier "George Bush" was transferred to the shores of Syria. ... The third US aircraft carrier arrived in the Middle East.
    From news agency reports for the last year


    A typical action from the time of Victorian England. It is not particularly important how Syria or Iran react - in principle, they can only ignore it, but the world community sees that the State Dep is not sleeping)))))

    Firstly, Nimitz-type aircraft carriers are simply lost amid other important events: the deployment of the American missile defense system in Europe, the deployment of the Patriot air defense system on the border with Syria - all this causes a much greater world resonance

    By the way, this does not cause much world resonance, you exaggerate. The ABM protests the Russian Federation and almost no one noticed the Petriots who are not going to follow Syria. There is a lot of malice that Germany sent Petriots to Turkey to reduce their costs and shift them to Ankara) )))
    Secondly, US Navy aircraft carriers cannot banally play the role of a “colonial cruiser in Zanzibar,” due to ... the absence of aircraft carriers in Zanzibar

    So I didn’t say that the aircraft carriers are super duper, but they can get to Zanzibar pretty quickly and hold a demonstration flogging of the freelance satrap of a third world country. The modern destroyer can’t do this. , it’s difficult to put it in a mud hut. But for light bombs of the defective Hornet, in the absence of air defense means, that’s it.
    The operation of aircraft carriers is so costly that the US Navy admirals will think seven times before sending the giant on a long trip
    But they have to do it regularly, otherwise the efficiency will drop altogether. An aircraft carrier is not such a thing that you can train without leaving the wall. Therefore, by the way, I stand for heavy artillery-missile ships.
    1. +2
      4 March 2013 18: 59
      Quote: Kars
      and the Tamagavkas must be at least a more or less decent target, it’s difficult to direct it to a mud hut

      To do this, there is AC-130 ganship and simple as a cork F-16
      and 800 airbases on all continents of the earth
      Quote: Kars
      they should do it regularly, otherwise the efficiency will generally fall.Aircraft carrier is not such a thing that you can train without departing from the wall.

      But they do not!
      Quote: Kars
      but the world community sees that the State Dep is not sleeping)))))

      The world community sees that out of 10 aircraft carriers, 1-2, 3 maximum, barely move. Disgrace
      They do not go anywhere, they rarely visit foreign ports, unlike the cruisers of the British Empire
      Quote: Kars
      it does not cause much world resonance, you exaggerate. The ABM causes protests of the Russian Federation

      Each has its own sore spot.
      RF annoys missile defense.
      Japanese soldiers are annoyed by Sasebo, Kadena and Futemma
      The Turks are delivered by "butthert" Inzhirlik
      Pakistan annoyed by war in neighboring Afghanistan
      Negroes are not at all up to the Nimitsev, they would have to eat
      1. +1
        4 March 2013 19: 20
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The world community sees that out of 10 aircraft carriers, 1-2, 3 maximum, barely move. Disgrace

        Well, you better know I don’t serve them. But I regularly hear about the appearance of some kind of president.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        To do this, there is AC-130 ganship and simple as a cork F-16
        and 800 air bases around the world.

        It is possible by them, but ALIANS already exist and they need at least something to do.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But they do not!

        This is also more visible to you, maybe there is data how many each spent flights a year?

        And I’ll add --- the majority was built during the Cold War, after 1991 the US Navy was built not to meet military needs, but to maintain a military industrial complex, and there would be no stagnation in technology.

        Here, the United Kingdom and France mentioned, if anyone paid attention, build EXACTLY COLONIAL bendors, and not Mr Nimitz type mrstriks.
        One of the destinations of which was not so much a war with the coast, but the provision of intercontinental convoys.
        1. 0
          4 March 2013 19: 37
          Quote: Kars
          But the news about the appearance of some kind of president regularly hear

          In the top5 Yandex?
          Quote: Kars
          It is possible by them, but ALIANS already exist and they need at least something to do.

          But for some reason, F-15 and F-16 worked in Libya

          Nimitsa is easier and more profitable to anchor than to use anywhere
          Quote: Kars
          Here, the United Kingdom and France mentioned, if anyone paid attention, build EXACTLY COLONIAL bendors, and not Mr Nimitz type mrstriks.

          I like Queen.
          Quote: Kars
          This is also more visible to you, maybe there is data how many each spent flights a year?

          the position of the Nimitz on 5 last December. has much changed?
          more than half are still sticking out for repairs.
          1. 0
            4 March 2013 20: 20
            SWEET_SIXTEEN,
            Well, there is another card for October 2012

            And there are 6 aircraft carriers at sea
            1. 0
              4 March 2013 20: 36
              Quote: Atrix
              And there are 6 aircraft carriers at sea


              - farewell tour of the Enterprise (CVN-65), the ship left the current fleet in December 2012;
              - CVN-68 and CVN-75 crawl along the coast of the USA, at the end of the exercises they will return to their native ports;
              And this is from the 11 US Navy aircraft carriers at that time!

              A rare set of circumstances, nothing more. After a couple of weeks, most superheroes again got into the joke
              1. 0
                4 March 2013 20: 53
                SWEET_SIXTEEN,
                Currently, 1-2 AUGs are constantly serving in the Persian Gulf, and 1 in the Mediterranean Sea. The period of military service of one AUG is 6 months, then rotation takes place. AUG George Washington since 5 Acres has been part of the 2009th operational compound of the 77th Fleet in the Western Pacific since 7 on an ongoing basis. One or three AUGs constantly take part in maneuvers in the Atlantic, Central and South America, or the Pacific Ocean as part of the US fleets or the combined NATO Navy.
                According to the Fleet Response Plan (FRP), if necessary, six AUGs should be deployed in the oceans within thirty days, and two more in the next 6 days. The main problem here is that all U.S. aircraft carriers cannot be in an equally alert state. After the aircraft carrier returns from combat service, he undergoes scheduled repairs for a period of 90 months. To ensure operational deployment capabilities according to FRP, it is planned to reduce the repair time of aircraft carriers to 18 months.
                In accordance with the requirements imposed by the command of the US Navy for the aircraft carriers of the future Gerald R. Ford, 160 flights must be provided during the day, and in extreme situations - 270, but for this it is necessary to use additional flight technical personnel.
                In connection with the strengthening of China in the future, the United States will have to strengthen its military presence in the Asia-Pacific region. Already in 2010, the number of AUGs in the Pacific Fleet was increased from 5 to 6 due to the forces of the Atlantic Fleet.
                Some experts believe that the combat power of the U.S. Navy carrier force is excessive, and maintaining the budget is too expensive. To carry out combat missions facing the US Navy enough 7-8 modern aircraft carriers. However, the focus of financing the US Navy in recent years remains the same, and there is no reason to believe that in the future the United States will reduce the number of its aircraft carriers.
                1. -3
                  4 March 2013 21: 02
                  Atrix,
                  What does your murzilka have to do with reality?

                  The position of the US Navy aircraft carriers at the beginning of March 2013
                  1. 0
                    4 March 2013 21: 08
                    SWEET_SIXTEEN,
                    Murzilka is an article, and I wrote to you why 2-3 aircraft carriers on combat duty
                    1. -1
                      4 March 2013 21: 21
                      Quote: Atrix
                      and I wrote to you why the 2-3 aircraft carrier on alert

                      In Mediterranean for the third month, not a single wunderwafe like "Nimitz"
  45. Stalinets
    +2
    4 March 2013 16: 38
    Somewhat emotionally - obscene article. Absolutely always accompanied by an aircraft carrier. AUG - called. Which includes the nuclear submarine. This is a very weighty argument. Glory to our rocket scientists for the fact that we have "granites". The conversation is not about them. When such an AUG creeps up to the object of influence, then, first of all, the reconnaissance of the Marine Corps and special forces, foolishly called "seals", enter into action. And after their glorious deeds, in the direction of placed beacons ..... I believe that today and tomorrow, aircraft carriers do not lose their importance. I think that Russia, too, should study the experience of using aircraft carriers, if it has its own. Having multiple squadrons of your planes in the right place at the right time is still not so bad.wink Yes
    1. +2
      4 March 2013 18: 20
      And who will let her crawl. In Soviet times, the location of EVERY aircraft carrier was monitored. Each was assigned a TB regiment for destruction and, if a war started, when it was nearby, it would be destroyed. In my comment I mentioned the photo. So, our flyers loved to quietly (at low altitude) approach the aircraft carrier and walk over it, which made the Amerikos much upset. Basmach
      1. +2
        4 March 2013 22: 20
        How do you know that it’s imperceptible? They wouldn’t shoot at them anyway.
  46. -1
    4 March 2013 16: 55
    It is a pity that the author of the article is not a member of the Chinese Politburo! In China, there is no such analytics, and the Chinese aircraft carriers themselves are trying to build, even according to our patterns. If someone translated the article for them, the Chinese communists would be very upset that the great Russian analyst would give so low an assessment of the prospects of the weapons they are betting on ...
    1. 0
      4 March 2013 18: 28
      Quote: bot.su
      If someone translated the article for them, the Chinese communists would be very upset that the great Russian analyst would give so low an assessment of the prospects of the weapons they are betting on ...

      So this is the funniest thing, because we have a difficult situation.
      “I’m not up to fat, I’d live.” We would have at least 5-6 strategic and 5-6 conventional nuclear submarines put into operation, and that would be good. No time for aircraft carriers now.
      So it’s not clear why, in general, the author posted this article on a Russian website.
      He would have to write to Washington, London, Beijing. Explain to them fools that the aircraft carriers are not needed by anyone. And the fact that they all build them and are building them))
      Respectfully ... Date. Signature.
      Answer us, and then,
      If you do not respond,
      Oh, we'll write ... to Sportloto!
  47. Witch
    +2
    4 March 2013 16: 56
    Too good to be true ....
    Although I like this layout ....
  48. 0
    4 March 2013 17: 37
    The guys will present an incredible picture (which is dreamed of in the nightmares of the US admirals). The USA declares war on the whole world ... well, albeit not all, let Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Iraq ... + some countries of South America (ala Venezuela), and NATO countries will take neutrality. So what? Don’t the Americans have aircraft carriers, the US occupation will be a time, if not weeks, then several months. But with the presence of such an aircraft carrier fleet, it becomes, if not impossible, then VERY difficult. That's why they need aircraft carriers, if they weren’t, their policy in the rest of the world would be much “quieter”
    1. 0
      31 May 2013 15: 04
      For such a war there is nuclear weapons, and aircraft carriers will sweep away in the first hours of the war.
  49. +3
    4 March 2013 18: 06
    Generals always prepare for the last war. (Churchill) He had in mind an almost objective fact: in preparing for possible military conflicts, military leaders usually come from his past experience and in a sense are really preparing for "Past" war, because the experience of a future, possible war does not exist.
    The meaning of the expression: in military construction, one should take into account all the latest victory factors (science, technology, politics, psychology, etc.), which conservative generals often tend to neglect.
    In this case, admirals.
    A sensible approach is seen in Common man.
    Quote: man in the street
    Maybe it’s worth dividing the effectiveness of the AUG (and not the aircraft carrier) into several components?
    1. Military action against the coast. Capture of bridgeheads and support of ground forces. The indicative flogging (bombing) of a third-rate country can not be considered.
    2. Actions to destroy the enemy fleet, acting under the cover of coastal defense, and without it in the open ocean.
    3. The stability of the AUG itself against the actions of aviation and the navy, including during landing operations.
    And so everyone mixed in a bunch, peppered with emotions. and nothing is clear. Maybe specialists speak out?


    It is necessary to approach the issue from different angles, and then draw a general conclusion, and not interfere with everything in a heap and periodically pull out one at a time.
  50. +1
    4 March 2013 18: 40
    My neighbor and I have a house on the same foundation.
    What can I do with the fact that a neighbor has a huge club with which he cannot climb my fence?
    But if we come to visit another neighbor for tea and argue about something, then I will probably give in to his opinion, since I only have a fence and even shtaketin, broken out of it, it does not compare with his club.
    And so we will go to all neighbors to visit, and in the end only the most daring (stupid) will be friends with me. And a neighbor sometimes gives out more buns on loan, when VERY necessary for someone. True, the interest is large, but people go, although he often draws off his debts, but no one particularly insists on returning the club, then he has it. So he has a lot of friends, there are a couple of bosom.
    And I have so-buddies. So if the fight is over, I can only sit behind my fence, otherwise they will beat me. And I can’t say a word for my friends.
    PS How would a neighbor not know about the stairs!
    What are you talking about aircraft carriers?

    In continuation: it only saves from the neighbor that the foundation is common, if that I can begin to destroy it, but then my house will fall.
    But something extreme time in the basement some props appear here and there, his "friends" help him to make them.
    1. -1
      5 March 2013 11: 55
      And you buy a plane gun. Here you have a more powerful and murderous argument. Why repeat after a neighbor
  51. -3
    4 March 2013 19: 35
    I always understood that these Pipilats were just rusty troughs for the Papuans to drive and never took them into account. Thanks to the author, he expressed my thoughts in an accessible artistic form.
    1. Stalinets
      +1
      7 March 2013 04: 02
      I’m not going to sing my praises, but thanks to these “pipilians”, they hold the whole world in their fist... Isn’t that right? request
  52. +1
    4 March 2013 19: 37
    In practice, in combat conditions, Nimitz air wings rarely perform more than 100 sorties per day. Just "cheap show off".
    100 DEPARTURES PER DAY FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - PONTY???
    1. +1
      4 March 2013 19: 58
      Quote: tank74
      100 DEPARTURES PER DAY FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - PONTY???

      Of course
      To achieve anything you need at least 1000 sorties per day


      Remember how many thousands of “Flying Fortresses” killed the Third Reich every day. The result was discouraging - the Reich's industrial production only grew by leaps and bounds

      And here you are with your unfortunate 100 sorties... laughing
    2. 0
      5 March 2013 12: 03
      When conducting combat operations, 100 sorties is the departure of ONE air division at a time (and after the first flight, at least a third will not return). And if it is spread out for a day, then there will be no one to return. Only due to a massive raid with modern air defense systems is it possible to strike (and not, like the Americans in the movies, with two or four).
  53. +3
    4 March 2013 20: 18
    The author just wants to save the Russian military budget)
  54. +2
    4 March 2013 21: 05
    Good afternoon everyone.
    In April or May 2013, the X-47B drone is planned to be landed on the US Navy ship USS George HW Bush

    The first landing is expected in April or May 2013.

    Northrop and US Marine tested the X-47B's ability to navigate the flight deck of the USS Harry S. Truman in November and December 2012.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-navy-uav-programmes-near-major-mile
    stones-382320/




    1. +1
      4 March 2013 21: 11
      Northrop and US Marine tested the X-47B's ability to navigate the flight deck of the USS Harry S. Truman in November and December 2012.

      Minus it however you want, but this is funny... they weren’t sure that the drone could roll on the deck? Or were they afraid that when he saw a lot of water, he would get scared, panic and huddle in the farthest part of the flight hangar?
      1. +1
        4 March 2013 21: 45
        Wedmak,
        There are some nuances there.
        The drone still needs to be “linked” to the ship: the ship must “know” the drone
        and vice versa.
        As I understand from the Internet, they intend to carry out aircraft logistics at
        The ship is completely digitalized.
        1. 0
          5 March 2013 09: 17
          Maybe there are nuances, I don’t know. If my memory serves me correctly, to control such drones, a station the size of a slightly smaller sea container + transmitters/receivers is stupidly installed. And an operator with a Genius joystick. smile Both are easily delivered to an aircraft carrier. Fortunately, there is plenty of space there.
          1. 0
            5 March 2013 20: 00
            Good afternoon Wedmak,
            The guys at Northrop Grumman, who are working on the US Navy's Unmanned Combat Air System Carrier Demonstration (UCAS-D) program, shouldn't have bothered with real advance carriers.
            They tested the X-47B in the desert, so they could also mark the contours of the flight deck and superstructures there. Layouts of other aircraft
            (let them... uh, the Chinese move them - there are a lot of them), people in multi-colored clothes + people with joysticks, and all the other necessary intricacies were placed on the outline of the flight deck.
            In general, a working day with a pace of at least 150 takeoffs and landings per
            day.
            They should invite the selection committee from the US Navy to attend this whole show.
            Generals are not fancy people; they will like this performance.
            Of course - takeoff - target practice - landing X-47B (by the way,
            General Atomics P46 Predator C, Avenger UAV are also subsequently planned to fly side by side with the X-47B on aircraft carriers)
            To enhance the surroundings, launch a couple of aircraft models from catapults with... uh, those who did not have time to unhook.
            And the X-47B is ready to join the ranks of the naval carrier group.
            1. 0
              5 March 2013 21: 23
              In 2011, US Navy Vice Admiral Mark Fox told reporters that he was skeptical that drones would be ready for carrier operations any time soon. "Anything that takes off and lands on an aircraft carrier has to be very reliable," he said. "You test something in the desert and it works great. But the sea world is a world of harsh and unforgiving environments."
              Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead said he would like to have the X-47 or a similar drone in service by 2018. This is probably just doable under the current X-47 testing schedule

              http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/killer-drone-secret-history/all/
              1. Kaa
                +1
                5 March 2013 21: 40
                Quote: Simple
                "Everything that takes off and lands on an aircraft carrier must be very reliable,

                This is your key phrase: hee: And considering that even Iran has seized control of at least two American drones and landed them at their airfields, can you imagine what will happen if they are “landed” with ammunition on an American aircraft carrier? Somewhere like this...
                Hence the admiral’s stingy male tear: “But the sea world is a world of harsh and unforgiving environment.” crying
  55. 0
    4 March 2013 21: 23
    Of course, we need an aircraft carrier, but destroyers, cruisers and frigates are more necessary!
  56. Avenger711
    +1
    4 March 2013 21: 51
    250 combat vehicles is an insignificant number. Operation Desert Storm involved... 2600 combat aircraft (not counting thousands of rotary-wing aircraft)! This is exactly how much aviation was needed to bomb Iraq “a little.”


    How many countries have at least a hundred combat aircraft? Iraq at that time had simply a huge army. However, not all of the flights were directed against military targets.

    In practice, we can assume that an AUG with 2 aircraft carriers will easily crush the air defense of almost any third world country. If 2 is not enough, then 4 will come. It is our “Kuzya” that is useless, and the AUG and a huge fleet of transport ships will easily isolate and seize the bridgehead, after which military engineers will begin work, and floating piers and fuel transfer stations will appear off the coast of the country subject to democratization , and on the very shore there is a first-class concrete airfield to which the same transports will bring ordinary land planes with crews, equipment and ammunition.
    1. -1
      4 March 2013 23: 16
      Quote: Avenger711
      In practice, we can assume that an AUG with 2 aircraft carriers will easily crush the air defense of almost any third world country

      But why drive a nuclear aircraft carrier and burn the uranium reactor rods for this if the United States has 800 air bases around the world?

      Quote: Avenger711
      and on the very shore there is a first-class concrete airfield

      Why bother so much? easier to capture the capital's airport
      1. Avenger711
        +2
        5 March 2013 01: 47
        Let it be at least 1800. If there are bases, then you can use them, although not every base will allow you to station a couple of hundred combat aircraft and a couple more divisions for an invasion. It’s not a fact that from the base you won’t have to fly over neutral states, etc. Not everywhere, like in Europe and the Persian Gulf, where aircraft carriers really have nothing to do. You try to go somewhere in West Africa, or Indonesia, or somewhere else in Oceania. Well, even if there is a base, and in theory you and a tanker can work there, there will not be much more sorties from it than from one aircraft carrier. By the way, perhaps this is why Libya was bombed directly from England, burning hundreds of tons of kerosene in vain instead of placing planes in the south of France or Italy, and supplying ammunition with cheap transport.

        About the seizure of the airport in the capital, you know, this is such nonsense that I don’t even want to comment, but I have to. Your transports will simply be destroyed, that’s all. You can even park a truck in the lane and no one will sit there. That is, we again come to the preliminary suppression of air defense by combat aircraft.
        1. 0
          5 March 2013 02: 15
          Quote: Avenger711
          You try to go somewhere in West Africa, or Indonesia, or somewhere else in Oceania.

          800 air bases on all continents. If necessary, more will appear. In any country. At least in Ulyanovsk. The Yankees will buy, intimidate, persuade anyone.

          It is necessary - they will “privatize” the Senegal airport for a couple of weeks
          Indonesia will be pressed from air bases in Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines and Australia. They will use the Diego Garcia airbase in the Indian Ocean and the Guam airbase in the Pacific Ocean.
          Quote: Avenger711
          that is why Libya was bombed directly from England, burning hundreds of tons of kerosene in vain instead of placing planes in the south of France or Italy

          The Yankees have bases in Malta, Italy, France, Spain and on the island of Crete, 300 km from Libya.
          Quote: Avenger711
          About the seizure of the airport in the capital, you know, this is such nonsense that I don’t even want to comment, but I have to

          But how did they capture the Bagram airfield, Shindad and Kabul in December 1979?
          How did Soviet troops capture Prague's Ruzyne International Airport in 1968?
          Did the Yankees capture the Mogadishu airport in Somalia (1993)?

          This is exactly how third world countries occupy - seizing a capital airport is much more pleasant and easier than crawling God knows where onto a shore dry with thorns

          http://topwar.ru/22814-tam-gde-konchaetsya-ad-nachinaetsya-vdv-vzglyad-so-storon


          y-na-vozdushno-desantnye-voyska.html
          1. +1
            5 March 2013 12: 41
            So there was no air defense, the guards caught flies, and most importantly, there was no war. That’s why such impudence passed. Otherwise, it’s a bunch of zinc coffins with no result
            1. +1
              5 March 2013 16: 11
              Quote: basmach
              So there was no air defense, the guards caught flies, and most importantly, there was no war. That’s why such impudence passed. Otherwise, it’s a bunch of zinc coffins with no result

              Yes, this is only possible with complete suckers

              This doesn’t work with those who have a more or less normal army (Iraq model 1991) - you need to create a group of a million soldiers and 2600 combat aircraft.

              Paradoxically, in both cases the aircraft carrier Nimitz is out of business
    2. +2
      5 March 2013 12: 35
      The plan is beautiful. It's a pity the Americans didn't know him. Why the hell was there a need to create a huge group in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? One-two and in kings. But here's another historical example. The head of our TECh was in Egypt during the war. A couple of days after our air defense systems (S-75 if I’m not mistaken) entered the battle, the Israelis stopped carrying out airstrikes. With good air defense organization and a sufficient number of air defense systems, there will be no one to fly (some will be shot down, others will stop themselves. This is not a movie). But it is possible to carry out a large-scale operation to land and capture such a platform (a runway 2 km long and even along the wind rose) if only the ground troops will chase flies. otherwise, the entire landing force will not reach the shore.
  57. nok01
    +2
    4 March 2013 23: 33
    Stupid article, it was the death of such giants as the Bismarck and Yamato that showed the inability of battleships to operate effectively without a good air barrier!!! The enemy must be respected, especially if he spends $500 billion on defense!
    1. 0
      4 March 2013 23: 59
      Quote: nok01
      operate without a good air barrier

      Has anyone called for “actions without a good air barrier”?!

      Quote: nok01
      It was the death of such giants as Bismarck and Yamato that showed the inability of battleships to operate effectively without a good air barrier

      Nine against one - the result is logical!

      Hmm, I wonder if the planes would have been able to succeed if in the place of the Yamato there had been a battleship identical in design to the Iowa (purely hypothetically, let’s assume that the Japs built the Iowa instead of the Yamato). WOULD AVIATION BE ABLE TO SINK THIS SHIP THEN?

      1. Iowa's air defense is not comparable in power to Yamato's air defense

      - 127 mm shells with a radar fuse;
      - Mk.32 fire control system with analogue computers, centralized guidance of anti-aircraft guns based on radar data.
      - rapid-fire anti-aircraft guns Mk.12
      - dozens of Bofors automatic guns, 40 mm caliber;
      - instead of 25 mm Japanese magazine-fed anti-aircraft guns, Iowa had 20 mm belt-fed Oerlikons - the rate of fire (not to be confused with the rate of fire!) was several times higher.

      2. Iowa was faster - the formation could move at a speed of up to 30 knots, which would have made the work of torpedo bombers even more difficult.
      Yamato, not only was inferior to Iowa in speed (the table value is about 27 knots), on her last voyage she did not have enough fuel, which forced her to turn off some of the boilers and reduce her speed to 20-25 knots.
    2. 0
      5 March 2013 12: 51
      "Bismarck" together with "Prince Eugene" sank "Hood", after which one rudder was damaged by a torpedo from a carrier-based aircraft. Lutyens received a proposal to release the steering wheel using an explosion (there was a storm at sea and it was impossible to use divers). For fear of disturbing the balancing of the propellers, he refused and the English squadron finished him off - but not like carrier-based aircraft. And it went to the bottom with perfectly balanced propellers.
  58. Serg812
    -3
    5 March 2013 00: 08
    I agree with the author of the article! And I can add that by destroying aircraft carriers you cause significant and costly harm to the enemy. And taking into account the advent of hypersonic missiles or the possibility of attack from space... this is generally an expensive target!!
  59. 0
    5 March 2013 00: 11
    To the author and article +. These aircraft carriers are like anchors around the neck of the United States and will drag them to the bottom, they are already pulling them. And we are peaceful people, enough of the NK, if only Kirov, Kalinin and Lazarev would pass through the “powder kegs” of the capital.
    From history: Rome could support a large army only at the expense of soldiers; in fact, the army was self-supporting; they captured, robbed and lived on that. While they are fighting profitably, as soon as they stopped, the Roman Empire ceased to exist. There is no need to repeat the mistakes of others. One guy said it right, any war is a war on credit.
    Z.Y. I read somewhere about neutralizing AUG with Antey pl granites or with Tu-160 x-555 they launch 2-3 missiles at a target with an interval of 1 minute, the first one, upon approaching the air defense zone of the order, undermines the electromagnetic warhead and temporarily extinguishes all tracking and guidance radars opening the way for others...
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 00: 58
      completely peaceful - why a fleet at all?)))
      1. 0
        5 March 2013 20: 52
        fair!
        Quote: Delta
        completely peaceful - why a fleet at all?)))

        Yes this is an extreme.
        For an atomic mess, many things will not be needed, including Nimitz. And an ordinary mess, for example, Peter and Nimitz, can develop into a higher category. In other words, neither we nor they will simply escalate things. Bottom line, why the hell is such a huge piece of iron? and the answer for them is a demonstration of power to promote economic interests, before and only before, the Papuans. banal threat. Well, if for them this is a vital necessity, then Russia does not have this. The question is, why does Russia need this, for what? Maybe for the show-off “like they’re cool because they have nimitz” we need it too, ANSWER? Second Option: Okay, well, let’s say in a normal confrontation without escalation, Nimitz is against Peter, I think Nimitz simply won’t be able to handle it alone, but Peter will gladly knock him down. Well, let's complicate things, the whole order is against Peter alone? I think the chances are equal. Now compare the cost of Peter with Nimitz, an air wing and an escort, in my opinion it’s logical?
    2. 0
      5 March 2013 01: 03
      Quote: SPACE
      I read somewhere about neutralizing AUG with Antey granites or with Tu-160 x-555 they launch 2-3 missiles on target with an interval of 1 minute


      One missile fired at an aircraft carrier is a step towards World War III. And it doesn’t matter how many missiles then hit the Nimitz - in an hour everyone will be hit.
      The conflict between the USSR and the USA could not have developed according to a different scenario.
  60. 0
    5 March 2013 01: 17
    I completely agree with the article! One can also add about the enormous vulnerability of these monsters. Modern ballistic missiles with homing heads are a nightmare reality for ships in general and aircraft carriers in particular... Air defense can hardly help here and missile defense can’t do much...
  61. Avenger711
    0
    5 March 2013 01: 49
    It’s just a pity that the Chinese don’t know, although they also settled in Indochina, there are bases, but somehow they don’t know how to crawl into the Indian Ocean without aircraft carriers.
  62. +1
    5 March 2013 12: 13
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    There are no naval wars now - that’s the trick. And it has not been 70 years since the end of WWII.



    And there has been no nuclear war until now. Does this mean that all nuclear weapons must be disposed of?
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 16: 06
      Quote: Delta
      And there has been no nuclear war until now. Does this mean that all nuclear weapons must be disposed of?

      Over the 70 years of its existence, nuclear weapons have gone from free-falling bombs to maneuvering MIRVs delivered at cosmic speed to a distance of ten thousand kilometers.

      Also the fleet - too much has changed in 70 years, different conditions, different tasks,
      1. 0
        5 March 2013 17: 00
        What others besides attack and defense?
        And about nuclear weapons - so what if they changed? YOU still haven’t answered the question - Does this mean that all nuclear weapons need to be disposed of? if they haven’t been useful after so many years
        1. 0
          5 March 2013 18: 01
          Quote: Delta
          Does this mean that all nuclear weapons must be disposed of?

          They need to be modernized to suit new conditions. Overcoming missile defense, etc.

          Quote: Delta
          What others besides attack and defense?

          Question from whom. And How.
          1. +1
            5 March 2013 18: 28
            This means do not recycle. Why should the Nimitz, which you consider useless, only because they hardly participated and are not participating now (fortunately), need to be scrapped? after all, nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers according to this logic are equally useless
          2. 0
            6 March 2013 11: 52
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Question from whom. And How.

            This is the whole root of the dispute, there is no worthy opponent in the ocean. There is no USSR and China has not yet matured. So at this stage the need for aircraft carriers is negligible, but everything changes.
  63. 0
    5 March 2013 12: 42
    I still believe that Russia needs several nuclear-powered aircraft carriers - icebreakers, slowly moving along the Northern Sea Route. Russia is a peace-loving country, so aircraft carriers will not be called attack carriers, but support aircraft.
    It’s better to start according to the “Ermak” principle, with the construction of a small aircraft carrier with a conventional power plant, at the same time helping the Swedish Finns and thus significantly improving relations with their neighbors to the “joy” of NATE. After working out the solutions in practice, move on to the series.
    After training, the valiant Air Force will tell itself what they need in order to quickly turn support into impact if necessary.
    As far as I remember, the Navy and the Air Force could not come to an agreement on the issue of an ekranoplan. This is where I see the main difficulty of creating a Russian aircraft carrier.
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 16: 02
      Quote: shurup

      I still believe that Russia needs several nuclear-powered aircraft carriers - icebreakers, slowly moving along the Northern Sea Route

      Who are you going to fight with in the Arctic? With walruses and seals?
      Multi-year pack ice covers the coast of the Arctic Ocean more reliably than a hundred aircraft carriers. Nimitzes will not pass there)))))


      Note.
      I wonder how we will deal with icing on decks?
      Icing of catapults? minus 40 and below is no joke
      How will we approach landing on a polar night? Among the incessant snow charges?
  64. 0
    5 March 2013 12: 56
    We need aircraft carriers. But as independent combat units, like Kuznetsov. Capable of independently fighting off all external threats and protecting ships traveling as part of a group with aviation.
    And to operate against the shore, it is necessary to create a new type of battleship for artillery action against coastal targets. Armed air defense DD, PLO, PKO.
  65. +1
    5 March 2013 13: 08
    Do not forget that all flights from an aircraft carrier are carried out in greenhouse conditions. The ship should go against the wind at maximum speed (makes it easier (takeoff and landing), the sea state should not exceed a few points. And if it’s stormy, then we call the enemy: “Hello, how about a lunch break?” or something. But they fight in under any conditions (at least that’s what we do)
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 13: 26
      Is it possible to use basic aviation under any conditions (including weather)?
      1. 0
        5 March 2013 15: 57
        Quote: Delta
        Is it possible to use basic aviation under any conditions (including weather)?

        There are significantly fewer restrictions.
        The same aircraft carrier is not capable of operating in Arctic latitudes.
        1. 0
          5 March 2013 16: 13
          But where did you even get the idea that carrier-based aircraft should be on par with base aircraft? Such a technical requirement has never been put forward for it. Where possible, use it. You don’t seem to be against aircraft carriers in principle, but specifically the Nimitz class. Why? In general, there is an inconsistency: if you are against aircraft carriers in principle, then why are you silent about the Russian one? the British were well-received. And how are they fundamentally different? size? number of aircraft? Yes. And why do the Nimitz lose in this sense if they have higher indicators?
          1. -1
            5 March 2013 17: 16
            Quote: Delta
            Why did you even think that carrier-based aircraft should be on par with base aircraft?

            This will be decided in an air battle between Hornet and Su-27 (Su-35)
            or F-35 vs PAK FA

            Quote: Delta
            You don’t seem to be against aircraft carriers in principle, but you are against the Nimitz class specifically.

            I am against super-carrier wunderwaffles weighing more than 60 thousand tons
            Practice shows that for defensive tasks you can freely fit within these limits (Kuznetsov, Queen, old Midway)
            1. 0
              5 March 2013 17: 48
              "This will be decided in an air battle between the Hornet and the Su-27 (Su-35)"

              I was not asking about opposition to carrier-based aircraft, but about why the carrier-based aircraft should be the same in purpose and capabilities as the base one?

              “Practice shows that for defensive tasks you can freely fit within these limits (Kuznetsov, Queen, old Midway)”

              And they want to conquer the States
              1. 0
                5 March 2013 18: 42
                Quote: Delta
                I was not asking about opposition to carrier-based aircraft, but about why the carrier-based aircraft should be the same in purpose and capabilities as the base one?

                deck crews will have to fight with “land” aircraft

                Quote: Delta
                And they want to conquer the States

                865 air bases worldwide
                Aircraft carriers are not used in local wars
                these are the facts
                1. Misantrop
                  0
                  5 March 2013 18: 49
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  865 air bases worldwide
                  Aircraft carriers are not used in local wars

                  So, they are not needed. Americans. Who else has at least a comparable number of bases on the planet?
                  1. 0
                    6 March 2013 15: 58
                    And if they are not needed, why build them?
                2. Kodiak
                  +1
                  5 March 2013 19: 20
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Aircraft carriers are not used in local wars


                  They were used against Libya, they were used against Yugoslavia, they were used against Iraq, they were used against Afghanistan...
              2. 0
                6 March 2013 15: 57
                Otherwise, the situation is you and Klitschko
          2. 0
            6 March 2013 15: 54
            The aircraft-carrying cruiser has a full range of weapons and is capable of solving all types (except landing) of tasks in the naval theater of operations. Aviation is only one type of weapon that performs its own range of (rather limited) tasks. An aircraft carrier, in principle, is not capable of this.
      2. 0
        6 March 2013 15: 49
        Yes. There are such concepts - SMC (simple weather conditions) during the day, SMC at night, SMC (complex) during the day, SMC at night. Depending on this (and a number of other parameters), the pilot is assigned a class (from 3rd to master). Modern navigation equipment allows the aircraft to be brought to the beginning of the axial airfield at an altitude of 40 m. The runway is illuminated by spotlights and its own headlights, the boundaries of the runway are marked with lamps.
    2. Kodiak
      +2
      5 March 2013 16: 06
      Quote: basmach
      The ship must go against the wind at maximum speed (makes it easier (takeoff and landing)...


      Not necessarily at full speed - it depends on the strength of the wind.

      Quote: basmach
      ...the sea state should not exceed several points...


      Namely 6 points, if we are talking about monsters like "Nimitz".
      The ban occurs at 7 points.
      Do we need to remind you that when the seas are strong, not all of our ships’ weapons can be used?
      1. 0
        5 March 2013 16: 45
        “Do we need to remind you that when the seas are strong, not all of our ships’ weapons can be used?”

        that's it. And first of all, this concerns submarines, the general and priority construction of which some here advocate
      2. -1
        5 March 2013 17: 21
        Quote: Kodiak
        Namely 6 points, if we are talking about monsters like "Nimitz".
        The ban occurs at 7 points.

        On a 9-point scale (sea roughness) or on a 12-point Beaufort scale (wind force)?
        Quote: Kodiak
        Do we need to remind you that when the seas are strong, not all of our ships’ weapons can be used?

        If the ship is sailing at depth, it can be used in any sea conditions)))
        1. 0
          5 March 2013 17: 43
          "If the ship is sailing at depth, it can be used in any sea)))"

          Tell me, where did you read this????
          1. 0
            5 March 2013 17: 59
            Quote: Delta
            Tell me, where did you read this????

            At a depth deeper than 20-30 meters, disturbances on the surface are felt only in the form of weak, slow horizontal movements of water. At the same time, a force 9 storm can roar on the surface.

            Below 100 meters, surface disturbances are not felt at all
            1. -1
              5 March 2013 18: 26
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              At a depth deeper than 20-30 meters, disturbances on the surface are felt only in the form of weak, slow horizontal movements of water. At the same time, a force 9 storm can roar on the surface.

              Below 100 meters, surface disturbances are not felt at all



              Can a submarine fire missiles from a depth of 100 meters??))))))

              For example, the same "Ohio" can shoot from 30 meters and with sea waves up to 6 points. AND THAT'S ALL!!!
              1. 0
                5 March 2013 18: 39
                Quote: Delta
                For example, the same "Ohio" can shoot from 30 meters and with sea waves up to 6 points. AND THAT'S ALL!!!

                The USSR Navy fired torpedoes from a depth of 800 meters (Komsomolets)
                1. +1
                  5 March 2013 18: 44
                  "The USSR Navy fired torpedoes from a depth of 800 meters (Komsomolets)"

                  I think we were talking about missiles, not torpedoes. How can a torpedo compete with an aircraft carrier? And then - Komsomolets is no longer there, even if we are talking about torpedoes
                  1. -2
                    5 March 2013 18: 59
                    Quote: Delta
                    I think we were talking about missiles, not torpedoes

                    We talked about weapons.
                    Quote: Delta
                    How can a torpedo compete with an aircraft carrier?

                    Coreyes, Eagle, Taiho, Yorktown, Wasp, Shinano, Sekaku sank just like that
                    Quote: Delta
                    And then - Komsomolets is no longer there, even if we are talking about torpedoes

                    there is Shchuka-B
                    The use of torpedo weapons over the entire range of speeds and depths (up to 500 meters)
                2. Misantrop
                  0
                  5 March 2013 19: 17
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  The USSR Navy fired torpedoes from a depth of 800 meters (Komsomolets)

                  All USSR submarines are capable of using torpedo weapons in the entire range of operating depths. Unlike the US submarine, whose firing depth is limited to 100 m
              2. Misantrop
                0
                5 March 2013 19: 15
                Quote: Delta
                Can a submarine fire missiles from a depth of 100 meters??))))))

                For example, the same "Ohio" can shoot from 30 meters and with sea waves up to 6 points. AND THAT'S ALL!!!

                Our starting corridor was 40-60 m. There were NO weather restrictions. By the way, already at 50 m there is complete silence no matter how rough it is. And even more so, there are no waves in the Arctic polynya lol
                1. 0
                  5 March 2013 19: 20
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And even more so, there are no waves in the Arctic polynya


                  Actually, we were not talking about Arctic polynyas, but about shooting precisely during rough seas
              3. 0
                6 March 2013 16: 02
                And the submarine attacks the aircraft carrier with torpedoes, and the missiles are used for other purposes on other boats
                1. Kodiak
                  0
                  6 March 2013 18: 29
                  The aircraft carrier must be attacked by Anteyami, anti-ship missiles, and the torpedoes are there for self-defense.
        2. Kodiak
          0
          5 March 2013 18: 17
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          On a 9-point scale (sea roughness) or on a 12-point Beaufort scale (wind force)?


          I seem to clearly answer the phrase about anxiety.

          "The seaworthiness of nuclear aircraft carriers allows for combat use of aircraft in sea conditions of up to 7 points." © http://tinyurl.com/bc7qr3h

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          If the ship is sailing at depth, it can be used in any sea conditions)))


          The main thing is that the seeker then captures the krap)
          1. +1
            5 March 2013 18: 34
            Quote: Kodiak
            http://tinyurl.com/bc7qr3h

            Serious publication.
            Another thing is, how could the authors know such details about American CVNs...from US Navy advertising brochures?
            Existing photo and video materials confirm the opposite - they fly only in light waves, and more often - generally in ideal weather conditions.

            Quote: Kodiak
            The main thing is that the seeker then captures the krap

            Why a prodigy of anti-ship missiles if there are 53-65 or Mk.48
            1. +1
              5 March 2013 18: 40
              You are already caught not knowing the question (I’m talking about “firing at a submarine in any sea state”), and you continue to kick back, without answering awkward questions
            2. Kodiak
              0
              5 March 2013 19: 08
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Another thing is, how could the authors know such details about American CVNs...from US Navy advertising brochures?


              Where did we get, for example, information on the American nuclear program?
              Intelligence, she eats her bread for a reason.

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Existing photo and video materials confirm the opposite - they fly only in light waves, and more often - generally in ideal weather conditions.


              It’s just easier to use these for propaganda.
              But this also happened:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BozCUf4-3oo

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Why a prodigy of anti-ship missiles if there are 53-65 or Mk.48


              To do this, you need to break into the center of the order, so that nothing is suspected and the “Moose” does not please the submarine itself with something similar.
              1. 0
                5 March 2013 19: 23
                Quote: Kodiak
                It’s just easier to use these for propaganda.

                One thing is certain - carrier-based aviation has many more restrictions than land aviation.
                Quote: Kodiak
                To do this, you need to break into the center of the order, so that nothing is suspected and the “Moose” does not please the submarine itself with something similar.

                Already from a distance of 40-50 miles, the shooting of homing torpedoes should have begun.
                1. Kodiak
                  0
                  5 March 2013 19: 39
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  One thing is certain - carrier-based aviation has many more restrictions than land aviation.


                  How about land planes, say, with strong crosswinds?
                  No problem?
                  The aircraft carrier will simply turn up and slow down.

                  The main limitation of land aircraft is that their take-off decks are in the same position, in the same place.

                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Already from a distance of 40-50 miles, the shooting of homing torpedoes should have begun.


                  In short, the nuclear submarine should not have hit the aircraft carrier; at most, it should have caused some damage to the ships of the order.
                  1. 0
                    5 March 2013 19: 57
                    Quote: Kodiak
                    How about land planes, say, with strong crosswinds?
                    No problem?

                    Strong winds are much less common on land than at sea
                    Quote: Kodiak
                    The main limitation of land aircraft is that their take-off decks are in the same position, in the same place.

                    Just the plot of a Russian folk tale about Emelya
                    The stove won’t go anywhere on its own; you have to pay for everything. In this case - deterioration in aircraft performance and 40 billion for ship maintenance
                    Quote: Kodiak
                    In short, the nuclear submarine should not have hit the aircraft carrier; at most, it should have caused some damage to the ships of the order.

                    Firstly, it must
                    Secondly, what does it matter if this is the Third World War - the conflict between the USA and the USSR could not have developed differently
                    1. Kodiak
                      +1
                      5 March 2013 20: 29
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Strong winds are much less common on land than at sea


                      Do I need to repeat about the morning fogs at the glorious Aviano base? :-)

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Just the plot of a Russian folk tale about Emelya
                      The stove won’t go anywhere on its own; you have to pay for everything. In this case - deterioration in aircraft performance and 40 billion for ship maintenance


                      The deterioration is insignificant, 800 bases are also not at all free, just like the flight resource.

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Firstly, it must


                      Well, the tactics then had to be different.
                      The proposal - to fire torpedoes from forty miles, the range of which is ten miles, it somehow does not suit IMHO.

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Secondly, what does it matter if this is the Third World War - the conflict between the USA and the USSR could not have developed differently


                      In fact, many different options for conflict were considered, including a limited war; I cannot say that they were incredible.
                      Unlikely is a better word.
                      1. -1
                        5 March 2013 21: 17
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Do I need to repeat about the morning fogs at the glorious Aviano base?

                        I can talk about K-10 and Typhoon Diana

                        The land climate differs from the sea climate, and here basic aviation has an undoubted advantage.
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        The deterioration is insignificant

                        2 times less combat load
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        800 bases are also not free at all

                        as if aircraft carriers don’t need 662-meter docks and bases
                        as if an aircraft carrier's air wing doesn't need airfields

                        And the main thing is that bases are needed in any case. Nothing will work without them
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Well, the tactics then had to be different.

                        It seems to me that you are not familiar with the torpedoes that were in service with the USSR Navy
                      2. Kodiak
                        +2
                        5 March 2013 22: 24
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        2 times less combat load


                        Comparison for 1985:

                        F-16Cv25:

                        Dry weight 8270
                        Maximum take-off weight 19200
                        Fuel capacity in internal tanks 3100
                        Maximum combat load 5400

                        F-18A:

                        Dry weight 10810
                        Maximum take-off weight 25400
                        Fuel capacity in internal tanks 4900
                        Maximum combat load 7250

                        Half the combat load?
                        Well, well.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        as if aircraft carriers don’t need 662-meter docks and bases
                        as if an aircraft carrier's air wing doesn't need airfields


                        800 pieces?
                        No, not needed.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        And the main thing is that bases are needed in any case. Nothing will work without them


                        The difference is in the required number of bases.
                        Aircraft carriers allow us to maintain fewer bases in the regions, while instead of more expensive air bases on the ground, we maintain MTOS.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        It seems to me that you are not familiar with the torpedoes that were in service with the USSR Navy


                        It seems to me that you are not familiar with the torpedoes that were in service with the USSR Navy if you think that 53-65 were supposed to be launched from 40-50 miles.
                      3. 0
                        6 March 2013 11: 08
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Comparison for 1985:

                        The F-16 is a lightweight, maneuverable fighter that's cheap and easy as hell
                        Widely used where the use of more powerful aircraft is unjustified
                        (and even more so the use of wafers of 40 billion each is unjustified)

                        If you want to know the truth about the Nimitz's striking power, compare the F-18A with the F-111
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        800 pieces?
                        No, not needed.

                        Air bases are needed in any case. Otherwise, it is impossible to wage war on the other side of the earth.
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        The difference is in the required number of bases.

                        is handsomely covered by the cost of aircraft carrier wafers
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Aircraft carriers allow us to maintain fewer bases in the regions, while instead of more expensive air bases on the ground, we maintain MTOS.

                        PMTO for Nimitz will be much more expensive than a standard foreign air base of the US Air Force
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        It seems to me that you are not familiar with the torpedoes that were in service with the USSR Navy if you think that 53-65 were supposed to be launched from 40-50 miles.

                        53-65 of course not
                        but 65-76 PV easily
                        and even if 65-76 with nuclear warheads is a guaranteed end to the entire AUG from one torpedo. and the worst thing is that it is almost impossible to protect yourself from this
                      4. Kodiak
                        0
                        6 March 2013 18: 15
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        The F-16 is a lightweight, maneuverable fighter that's cheap and easy as hell

                        Light MFI is compared with light MFI.
                        Aw, what a villainy :-)
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Widely used where the use of more powerful aircraft is unjustified
                        (and even more so the use of wafers of 40 billion each is unjustified)
                        If you want to know the truth about the Nimitz's striking power, compare the F-18A with the F-111

                        Yes, the use of F-111 analogues is almost never justified.
                        For area targets they use strategists, for highly protected point targets - CR, other tasks are handled by fighter-bombers, as was shown by the same Desert Storm, where F-111Fs delivered only 2004 tons of ammunition (B-52 25422 tons, and MFIs even more more).
                        As a result, we have what we have - the F-111 has been removed from service.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Air bases are needed in any case. Otherwise, it is impossible to wage war on the other side of the earth.

                        Of course, we need, for example, floating ones who can cover from the air the capture of a bridgehead by landing forces and the deployment of land bases on the newly reclaimed territory.
                        And for strategists/transporters/refuelers.
                        It’s impossible to count the need for 800, somehow it’s about one and a half less :-)
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        is handsomely covered by the cost of aircraft carrier wafers

                        This is not covered, we found that out in the last thread.
                        Well, or the fleet is left without cover.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        PMTO for Nimitz will be much more expensive than a standard foreign air base of the US Air Force

                        The difference between PMTO for "Nimitz" and non-Nimitz is small - the area of ​​warehouses from which they will unload what is needed for the fleet is larger, and that's all, while PMTO is still needed.
                        Compared to this surcharge, IMHO, an average air base will be more expensive than expanding the PMTO.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        53-65 of course not

                        And we seemed to be talking about her.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        but 65-76 PV easily

                        From 50 miles (92,6 km)?
                        Taking into account the fact that the aircraft carrier moves at a speed comparable to a torpedo and religion does not prohibit it from changing course?
                        And thick “torpedoes” are quite noisy; hoping that they won’t be detected is somewhat naive.
                        And simply methods of counteraction (for example, towed behind a ship :-) are quite present.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        and even if 65-76 with nuclear warheads is a guaranteed end to the entire AUG from one torpedo. and the worst thing is that it is almost impossible to protect yourself from this

                        The whole AUG?
                        Is that Kuzmina Mother there instead of a warhead, with such a damage radius?
                        Defense - “soft killing”, clogging the SSN with interference and diverting the torpedo to the side with false targets (or rather simply moving away from it).
                      5. -1
                        6 March 2013 21: 19
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Light MFI is compared with light MFI.
                        Aw, what a villainy :-)

                        Land aviation can always get a trump card - the F-15, and possibly the F-22
                        In local conflicts, Iglas always cover strike groups
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        As a result, we have what we have - the F-111 has been removed from service.

                        Instead, the F-15E was adopted for service. I can only congratulate the US Air Force.

                        Regarding air bases, is there any data on the cost of annual maintenance for Kadena? or any other
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        The difference between PMTO for "Nimitz" and non-Nimitz is small - the area of ​​warehouses from which they will unload what is needed for the fleet is larger, and that's all, while PMTO is still needed.

                        Shall we moor?
                        Why am I asking - for example, Kuznetsov cannot enter Tartus, the fairway is too small, the piers are too small. Usually located on the roadstead. It will be more difficult with Nimitz...

                        65-76

                        everything is much simpler and more efficient there - fan-based torpedo launch, INS guidance, external interference is powerless. Explosion after a specified period of time. Radius of continuous damage - 1 mile

                        the second option is no worse - homing release from a range of up to 50 miles and closer. While the Yankees are gasping for air and trying to intercept 65-76 (if, of course, they discover it), the boat will come closer and land 53-65

                        Ammunition of the Shchuk ranged from 8 to 12 long torpedoes and from 20 to 28 conventional torpedoes (instead of some conventional torpedoes there was usually another, no less cool weapon - for example, Vyuga with nuclear warheads))))

                        The USSR Navy is no slouch either - before 1991 it riveted twenty-five "671RTMK" and eight "971". This is not counting the Fin, Barracuda, Condor and specialized 949 and 949A - I am only listing third generation boats. There are three or four for each AUG. Nimits and Kitty Hawks can order brooms and buy a coffin
                      6. Kodiak
                        +1
                        7 March 2013 01: 52
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        In local conflicts, Iglas always cover strike groups

                        Always? :-)
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Instead, the F-15E was adopted for service. I can only congratulate the US Air Force.

                        It was proposed to compare aircraft in terms of strike capabilities - let's compare the F-15E and F-111!
                        What to congratulate on - we need to sympathize!!
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Regarding air bases, is there any data on the cost of annual maintenance for Kadena? or any other

                        Tomorrow I’ll try to look, but there’s a lot of work, if I don’t find the ends in half an hour or an hour, I’ll most likely give up :-)
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Shall we moor?
                        Why am I asking - for example, Kuznetsov cannot enter Tartus, the fairway is too small, the piers are too small. Usually located on the roadstead. It will be more difficult with Nimitz...

                        Support vessels will moor.
                        It’s not a Nimitz thing to walk through the PMTO on your own.
                        He must get the money out... That is, to symbolize the indestructibility of the ideals of democracy and the readiness to constantly fight fiercely for them!
                        Or even participate in this fight.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        65-76

                        everything is much simpler and more efficient there - fan-based torpedo launch, INS guidance, external interference is powerless. Explosion after a specified period of time. Radius of continuous damage - 1 mile

                        Fan-fan...
                        Did at least one of our submarines have more than 2mm TA?
                        How long does it take for torpedoes to reach the enemy?
                        Otherwise, he walks just a mile every two minutes.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        the second option is no worse - homing release from a range of up to 50 miles and closer. While the Yankees are gasping for air and trying to intercept 65-76 (if, of course, they discover it), the boat will come closer and land 53-65

                        Not certainly in that way.
                        A torpedo has been detected - an anti-submarine alarm has been raised for the AUG, the direction from which the torpedo is coming is known.
                        The boat can't come any closer, but needs to scramble.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        The USSR Navy is no slouch either - before 1991 it riveted twenty-five "671RTMK" and eight "971". This is not counting the Fin, Barracuda, Condor and specialized 949 and 949A - I am only listing third generation boats. There are three or four for each AUG. Nimits and Kitty Hawks can order brooms and buy a coffin

                        Yes, the USSR Navy is not a sucker.
                        Therefore, the destruction of AUGs in the 80s was entrusted to the submarine anti-aircraft divisions and MRAs, and they decided to abandon 650mm torpedoes.
                        And then there was the understanding that we were unlikely to be able to melt all the AUGs.
                      7. -2
                        7 March 2013 03: 25
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Always? :-)

                        Always when needed
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        It was proposed to compare aircraft in terms of strike capabilities - let's compare the F-15E and F-111!

                        ?
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Support vessels will moor.

                        and why should they. they have everything with them.
                        or will we first deliver fuel and ammunition by plane to the maintenance and repair facility, and then reload it onto supply ships?))))
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        Did at least one of our submarines have more than 2mm TA?
                        How long does it take for torpedoes to reach the enemy?
                        Otherwise, he walks just a mile every two minutes.

                        - as if there is no automatic reloading of the TA
                        - Long torpedoes have been abandoned in our time. reason - poverty
                        - what difference does it make who goes where if boats attack from all directions?
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        A torpedo was detected - an anti-submarine alarm was raised for the AUG

                        long before the attack, the AUG PLO will be brought to the highest level of readiness - after all, martial law has been declared, some kind of Caribbean crisis, world tension
                        but this will not help against long torpedoes

                        otherwise - in peacetime, the boat can calmly prance in the middle of the AUG - and having received the appropriate order, it will shoot the Nimitz point-blank
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        the direction from which the torpedo is coming is known

                        Children's pranks. During this time, the nuclear submarine will circulate to the right and enter from a different direction)))
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        And then there was the understanding that we were unlikely to be able to melt all the AUGs.

                        Yes, no one needs this, in the conditions of a global nuclear war
                      8. Kodiak
                        0
                        10 March 2013 00: 15
                        Sorry, couldn't answer earlier.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Always when needed

                        This is an important clarification.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Quote: Kodiak
                        It was proposed to compare aircraft in terms of strike capabilities - let's compare the F-15E and F-111!

                        ?

                        The Yusovites do not need front-line bombers in aviation - they don’t have them there.
                        The Yusovites do not need heavy fighters on aircraft carriers - they don’t have them there.
                        The absence of heavy carrier-based fighters is due precisely to doctrine.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        and why should they. they have everything with them.
                        or will we first deliver fuel and ammunition by plane to the maintenance and repair facility, and then reload it onto supply ships?))))

                        First, we will deliver by conventional dry cargo ships and tankers/we will buy on site, then we will reload onto supply vessels adapted for transshipment to AUG, and deliver to the junction.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        - as if there is no automatic reloading of the TA
                        - Long torpedoes have been abandoned in our time. reason - poverty

                        They refused back in the USSR; the installation of 650 mm devices on 4th generation nuclear submarines was not planned.
                        The reason is that the task of defeating the enemy’s NK was assigned to anti-ship missiles + new torpedoes in 533 mm caliber (but we don’t have the latter in commercial quantities precisely because of poverty).
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        - what difference does it make who goes where if boats attack from all directions?

                        How did they end up on all sides when their speed is approximately the same as the AUG?
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        long before the attack, the AUG PLO will be brought to the highest level of readiness - after all, martial law has been declared, some kind of Caribbean crisis, world tension

                        So we are also talking about a special period, and not about a sudden hidden attack?
                        At that time, the chances of a submarine approaching 50 miles from an AUG undetected were not that great at all in the 80s (no one saves buoys).
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        but this will not help against long torpedoes

                        Yes it will help, it will help.
                        They are noisy, they walk in a straight line, they walk for a long time.
                        You can’t dodge only if all the officers of the formation are celebrating the commander’s birthday and are drunk in the ass about this :-)
                        As a last resort, the most dangerous torpedoes will receive their W44s.
                      9. Kodiak
                        0
                        10 March 2013 00: 17
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        otherwise - in peacetime, the boat can calmly prance in the middle of the AUG - and having received the appropriate order, it will shoot the Nimitz point-blank

                        But for some reason, after discovery, our submarines immediately tried to leave.
                        Probably because during a special period they will drown a few minutes after discovery, without having time to wait for the order.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Children's pranks. During this time, the nuclear submarine will circulate to the right and enter from a different direction)))

                        ASW aircraft will appear in the area, scattering buoys in all directions, and after rapid detection, torpedoes will be launched.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Yes, no one needs this, in the conditions of a global nuclear war

                        So it would seem there was no need to go to the English Channel, but who cared? :-)
                    2. Misantrop
                      0
                      5 March 2013 23: 38
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Strong winds are much less common on land than at sea
                      In Crimea, on the territory of the Gvardeyskoye airfield, according to statistics, there are as many as 5 windless days per year lol But what causes more trouble is not the wind, but the icing of the runway. And freezing rain has ceased to be a rarity at all in the last few years.
                  2. 0
                    6 March 2013 16: 34
                    The runway is always built according to the wind rose. And during my service on concrete, flights were canceled 3-4 times a year due to cross winds. And the regiment flew in two shifts, 2-3 times a week.
          2. 0
            6 March 2013 16: 28
            And you try, in a force 7 storm, pitching and lateral motion, side gusts of wind and a speed of 300 km, to land the plane on a runway 15 m wide and 300 m long, catching the hook on the first cable. Ask the flyers, not the computer game. But in reality, we have one pilot in our regiment who flies in SMU (difficult weather conditions), having the appropriate class and experience. During the day, during rain (without a storm), I plopped it down into the middle of the runway (3 km long and 40 m wide), forgot about the parachute and turned into the outer taxiway. The result is 2 folded landing gear, a bent right plane (as on the Yu-87). the fuselage was damaged. The plane stayed in our technical unit for a year and a half, after which it was written off (and the pilot was written off after 3 days)
      3. 0
        6 March 2013 16: 14
        The plane ALWAYS takes off against the wind. The higher the speed of the oncoming air flow, the greater the lifting force and the shorter the takeoff run. Notice how the plane sags after lifting off the deck. Therefore, the speed is always maximum and strictly in the direction of the wind (At our airfield, the AN-2 rose almost vertically in a strong headwind - I saw it with my own eyes). The same goes for landing. Landing speed is under 300 km/h, so the first cable must engage. Therefore, at max. aircraft carrier speed, the plane approaches at a lower speed. And air-to-ship cruise missiles fly at 7 points.
        1. Kodiak
          0
          6 March 2013 18: 40
          Quote: basmach
          The plane ALWAYS takes off against the wind. The higher the speed of the oncoming air flow, the greater the lifting force and the shorter the takeoff run. Notice how the plane sags after lifting off the deck. Therefore, the speed is always maximum and strictly in the direction of the wind (At our airfield, the AN-2 rose almost vertically in a strong headwind - I saw it with my own eyes). The same goes for landing. Landing speed is under 300 km/h, so the first cable must engage. Therefore, at max. aircraft carrier speed, the plane approaches at a lower speed.

          For a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, the wind speed + ship speed is usually kept at 30-40 knots.
          Quote: basmach
          And air-to-ship cruise missiles fly at 7 points.

          But the seeker does not always lock onto the target.
  66. rocketman
    +1
    5 March 2013 13: 55
    Interesting article. The eternal war of two concepts: which is better? Have one or two large ships, or a hundred small ones?
  67. sprocket2008
    0
    5 March 2013 16: 23
    It seems to me that they have nothing real at all, just polished dirt... just like the Americans themselves, whose emotions are not even real... a plasticine country. negative
  68. igor12
    0
    5 March 2013 18: 00
    But it seems to me that ours should focus on nuclear submarines, long-range aviation using stealth technology, and ballistic intercontinental complexes, and then, in principle, aircraft carriers are not needed in the first place. Although this is purely my personal opinion.
  69. 0
    5 March 2013 18: 25
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    At a depth deeper than 20-30 meters, disturbances on the surface are felt only in the form of weak, slow horizontal movements of water. At the same time, a force 9 storm can roar on the surface.

    Below 100 meters, surface disturbances are not felt at all


    Can a submarine fire missiles from a depth of 100 meters??))))))

    For example, the same "Ohio" can shoot from 30 meters and with sea waves up to 6 points. AND THAT'S ALL!!!
  70. +1
    5 March 2013 18: 28
    I have a simple question: How long will it take, for example, to extinguish the fire and remove debris from the flight deck of an aircraft carrier? For example, 100 planes took off - then a rocket landed on the deck, therefore there was a fire, debris - where will the ones that flew away land? There is such a book “Experience of the war in Vietnam” it is about our air defense, we read it in training, and so there is a fragment there - officers suggested that the command attack an aircraft carrier with anti-aircraft missiles in the "ground" mode - in order to interrupt flights from it for a long time, the arguments were just Where the hell will those who have flown off to "work" go - they are CATEGORICALLY forbidden to do so. laughing Apparently for serious reasons.
  71. 0
    5 March 2013 18: 47
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    deck crews will have to fight with “land” aircraft



    Is it necessary? Is that what happened at Midway?

    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Aircraft carriers are not used in local wars
    these are the facts


    Well, it’s great that they are not used. Do they still need to be used? or for a non-local war to break out? we were just talking about nuclear weapons. It is also not used (there is a sponge on the stake....). And then - you yourself mentioned the participation of American aircraft carriers in the wars after WWII. And now - “not used”....
    1. 0
      5 March 2013 19: 07
      Quote: Delta
      Is it necessary? Is that what happened at Midway?

      Midway was 70 years ago. Now this is impossible.
      Quote: Delta
      Well, it’s great that they are not used.

      It's bad that 865 air bases are in use
  72. rubber_duck
    +2
    5 March 2013 19: 07
    Obviously, even 10 Nimitz-class supercarriers are not capable of doing that much work; they are weak as puppies in the face of the might of ground-based tactical air power.

    Yeah, but this directly depends on the “power of ground-based tactical aviation.” I will add on my own behalf, serviceable combat units within the radius of their combat use. Or is this value a constant, and is equal “to hell compared to an aircraft carrier group”?.. I especially propose to evaluate these values ​​as applied to the coastal regions of the Russian Federation today. Just don’t shout “let’s throw our hats”, but evaluate...
    1. audentes
      -2
      5 March 2013 20: 01
      I live next to our airfield (seaside), according to the pilots, when one plane lands, they quickly run to it, remove some part and put it on the one that should fly next, there are several fully serviceable planes. the same thing with weapons; all warranty periods have been extended several times
      1. lyustra10
        +1
        6 March 2013 01: 58
        Until you tell me what kind of air base it is, it’s all bullshit. And if you say so, too, because we don’t have many coastal air bases, people are in the know, including me, aware of the situation, and none of them have the mythical problem you voiced.
      2. 0
        6 March 2013 17: 13
        I don’t know, these things fly every day, Last year in the spring they flew to Komsomolsk to the factory, By the end of summer they rushed in and began to rumble, they fly constantly, SU-27
      3. 0
        6 March 2013 19: 02
        And you listen less to the Pilots. He comes before departure, when the plane is ready. and after departure, he signs the aircraft preparation log (aircraft preparation log) and leaves. Each part or unit has its own passport, which is kept in the ATO in the documentation for the aircraft. In general, there is a lot of gimor, and no one will solve it. In the event of a failure and it is impossible to eliminate the aircraft, the aircraft is removed from flights, and if it is impossible to eliminate it by ATO forces, it is sent to the technical unit. You can believe that this is exactly what I did (preparation and repair) in the regiment.
    2. +1
      6 March 2013 06: 37
      Guys, you have gone astray, the AUG in its current (USA) form is a terrible enemy, Don’t you monitor its use, Like small children, Take a careful look at the use of this armada, Such operations are prepared very carefully, Many options are calculated, The article itself so-so three, Completely empty and narrow, I expected better and higher quality, Even the comments are very weak, In the Iraqi company, for the first time, the AUG showed what it can do, Which 17% is real nonsense, The naval component was assembled was huge, Remember the beginning, the launch of many hundreds of missiles with AUG and each for its own purpose, After clarification, the next launch of missiles is also individual according to what survived, And only after the third launch of missiles did the planes take off into the air, They were practically guaranteed only purely symbolic resistance, Such things must be studied and applied at home, Especially planning and application of our troops, The main goal was to reduce the losses of personnel, all types of troops, A noble goal, I personally am in favor of such planning and use with both hands, We are not going to fight on foreign territory, The use of our troops disheartens me, There are always miscalculations, inability, etc. Not so long ago they remembered the 6th company, And who planned it, who arranged it, You have to answer for such things, Then they will love the officers, but now, How many draft dodgers and this is how they say in peacetime, Goodbye
      1. +1
        6 March 2013 10: 55
        Quote: igor.borov775
        In an Iraqi company, for the first time, AUG showed what it can do, What 17% is real nonsense

        igor.borov lies and doesn’t blush
        Carrier-based aviation accounted for only 12 sorties out of 000 thousand sorties of MNF aviation

        17% of sorties
        and only 6% of bombs dropped
        1. 0
          6 March 2013 16: 58
          I apologize, read carefully, but what about the AUG missile strikes? I’m talking about a real complex of weapon systems used by the AUG group. By the way, they are now showing and talking on the box not just but admirals and generals of the United States. They are practically talking about what I’m trying to say. YOU, It is not customary there to separate who contributed more to the treasure in the defeat of the enemy. They consider what exactly they did, AUG, We count each of them separately on the website and this is not correct, Now they have announced the figure that the Yankees spent 8 trillion dollars on weapons after the collapse of the USSR, And how many sorties the air group made is not important, I understand if you look only at the contribution of the Aircraft Carrier, it is not very large, But I don’t think that the Yankees are stupid, They praise their AUG as a whole, we also need to take into account their enormous experience in the use of aircraft carriers ,, Now, different times have come, missile weapons come to the forefront and airplanes follow them,
      2. +1
        6 March 2013 18: 49
        Apparently, you don’t know much about the Iraq war, and you only know about tactics and strategy from the Internet. Iraq had neither a Navy nor an Air Force. That is why the Yankees concentrated their naval group with impunity. Otherwise, a country with a Navy and Air Force will take appropriate measures at the slightest hint of such a concentration of forces... Yes, a lot of missiles were fired. But what's the point? Intelligence data from satellites, according to the Yankees themselves, was delayed by a day (from the moment of data from the satellite to the moment of the strike). A lot of layouts were destroyed. Most of the infrastructure remained intact (they were going for oil, too). As I have already noted, the war itself in the air and at sea without the action of ground forces is a mouse race. They bombed and shot, but they couldn’t take Basra for a whole week! At the same time, the Yankees did not destroy the bridges and were able to reach Baghdad (and the guard only marched and promised, and then fled cowardly) And if the entire Iraqi army had fought like the division at Basra (including air defense), the result would have been completely different . Already on the fourth day of the war, field hospitals were overcrowded and the wounded (mostly with burns and fractures) were taken to Germany (about 400 people) where they even had to be accommodated in a civilian hospital. A message about this appeared only once on RTR in the evening edition and was not published again. So draw your own conclusion.
        1. 0
          7 March 2013 19: 20
          What are you saying, what about the MIG-29 flights to Iran? According to BASRA, it was taken by those who previously owned most of the petrochemical enterprises and pipelines. Yes, the British have such a power supply, this is their property, the Yankees did not interfere. There was an agreement, and then why did special forces work in Iraq? destroy everything I later read how the Americans covered evil transmission lines from the air with tapes. This is what our electrical engineers said, the Yankees used a lot of new products, remember the explosion of a bomb in the air over Baghdad and the cellular end was turned on. There was no point in the war lasting much longer, And so we have this we have
  73. lyustra10
    +2
    6 March 2013 02: 17
    In general, guys, you are all thinking about the wrong thing. The capabilities of the American Armed Forces have been greatly exaggerated, and have been for a long time, and aircraft carriers are no exception. Let's be honest: today their function is limited to displaying the flag, and then to a lesser extent from year to year. They are not able to bring even 4-5 AUGs into the BP area at the same time, and taking into account the upcoming budget sequesters and other delights, 4 colossuses are guaranteed to become mothballed, and this is a lot of money, rusting in the open air. The construction of new ABs is only a necessary measure. The military lobby is too strong, and the US military-industrial complex will most likely not be able to get off the hook (without catastrophic consequences for the country). Tension in the world will grow because they will need to fill their defense industry with orders. And for this it is necessary to start a war in a small and, preferably, not everyone’s favorite country. So it will be - if we and China do not put a spoke in their wheels. And we WILL BE. But in any case, pointing a finger and saying: “Look, the Americans have laid another AB, we need to do the same, otherwise they will laugh” - this is nonsense. Built for the price of the same AB 2 (or even 3) SSBNs with a hundred anti-ship missiles will be able to bring us much more benefit (and are guaranteed to sink the entire AUG) - I’ll be “delighted”, I’m sure. Some people already raised a fuss a couple of years ago, when it became known about the strike capabilities of the Yasenya ammunition ship - they said that the Project 885 submarines had “too powerful weapons, why do the Russians need them?..” - honestly, that was it.
    AB USA, of course, must be kept in mind, BUT! And we must understand that the whole of America - the army, the economy, industry, energy - is essentially inflated, and has been for a long time. The army can only fight banana republics; the national debt is such that it’s time to hang yourself - and you don’t want to, but you’ll have to cut your appetites, there’s simply nowhere else to go; there is no industry as such - everything is in Asia; how the “scam” with the sale of 500 tons of enriched uranium to the States ended - their enrichment industry is, in principle, dead, and this is reality; Russia already allows itself to hammer a bolt on them and either doesn’t want to let children be adopted, or refuses to eat chicken legs... Everything is interconnected, open your eyes wider: the world is changing literally before our eyes. I am sure that in 10 years we will not recognize our own country, we will have the USA (this is the same) and with all the zeal. We'll talk loudly again, gentlemen.
  74. +4
    6 March 2013 02: 44
    TO ALL THE AWESOME AND CRAZED MILITARY EXPERTS:
    Whatever potential a country (Russia) has, the main thing is how its actions are perceived in the world. And in a world where the BBC or FII is blowing the whistle with might and main, banal elections that essentially concern only the Russian people are used to destabilize the internal situation and oust Russia from the international arena.
    Well, Russia has missiles, planes, tanks and can Russify the Baltics in half a day. But what we have in reality is mockery of Russians in the Baltic states (not citizens), celebration of the Nazis, political blackmail in international relations.
    The Yankees, on the other hand, not only control the puppet regimes in these countries, but also create the illusory illusion of a coordinated, legal presence, sharing views of actions in the Baltic states.
    The USSR was a scarlet flower of democratic freedoms compared to the current maniacal establishment of civil rights in the eurozone and the northern bloc.
  75. sergeybulkin
    +1
    6 March 2013 10: 10
    All this iron, atomic, non-atomic armada proudly and aimlessly floating back and forth across the seas and oceans, just primitive saber rattling.
    Incredibly expensive to cost and even more expensive to operate warships brought such little benefit in wars that it’s even funny, there are plenty of cases when fleets were sunk right in their home port. The ships died without firing a single shot.
    This is all a huge iron club whose purpose is to intimidate the wild aborigines and force them to surrender without a fight.
    The larger and more expensive the floating tub, the faster it sinks. A dozen small torpedo boats made of plywood brought such terror to enemy battleships in World War II that they were afraid to even stick their noses out of their native ports.
    1. Stalinets
      0
      7 March 2013 04: 05
      How many of them drowned? I don't even remember. Aviation with its capabilities is based on this tub.....And it can also refuel in the air from the KS-135....
  76. alex_lightning
    0
    6 March 2013 20: 40
    I’ll tell you guys this, even though I’m young and stupid!!! Why is an aircraft carrier better than ground forces because in a short time with minimal costs like Israel, even though it is from land, but there are 5-6 aircraft and there are no steamboat factories, etc., etc. although sometimes it comes to mind in Folk Lands hi !!! and our Tu-160 cruise bombers and a lot of others!!! One thing I will say is that if you have the opportunity, you should have at least a couple of these!!! when the time comes to come in handy!!!
  77. +1
    6 March 2013 21: 44
    The aircraft carrier is at least to a greater extent a watered instrument. pressure, but in addition to the offensive potential, we must not forget about the defensive potential, this is what our fleet needs it for. Aviation is the most dangerous enemy of NK after the submarine.
  78. His
    +1
    8 March 2013 14: 24
    I read all the comments, but it feels like no one won the argument better for Russia. It must be said that Soviet Russia was destroyed not by a squadron of American ships, but by internal confusion and financial poverty. The happiness of Americans is that the whole world is sitting on a dollar needle. And the machine is in their hands. We don't need $40 billion aircraft carriers
  79. Mikola
    -1
    8 March 2013 19: 15
    Yeah. The article is clearly in the style of Soviet propaganda. The author decided to throw earflaps at the Pentagon’s attack ships. Here is an example - Naturally, against the backdrop of this incredible amount of equipment, the contribution of carrier-based aircraft from the only aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt turned out to be simply symbolic - only 10% of the tasks completed. By the way, the super-powerful aircraft carrier "Roosevelt" began to carry out combat missions only on the 12th day of the war.... If anyone has studied at least three years of mathematics, then they understand how "bad" an aircraft carrier is when it began to carry out combat missions on the 12th day!! !, with the participation of an incredible amount of equipment))))) ONE completed - only 10% of the tasks completed!!!....... it is because of such writers and specialists that Russia has one aircraft carrier, with which they don’t know what to do .
  80. 0
    12 March 2013 22: 46
    Both the article and the comments make a depressing impression: the article is one-sided and narrow, the comments are the repetition of the same arguments in different interpretations. It would seem that what is the dispute about if:
    1. The aircraft carrier operates as part of the AUG - so evaluate its effectiveness based on the results of the actions of the entire AUG.
    2. Over time, the tasks of the Avma have changed, but have not disappeared - therefore, aircraft carriers have not disappeared either.
    3. Only options are considered one-sidedly when ground airfields and bases of amers and others like them are beyond the reach of any weapons of destruction and are not exposed to other factors that disrupt the functioning of these airfields.
    4. For some reason, they urgently demand that deck crews carry out strikes before the deployment of the main group, but their role ensuring deployment is not considered. In none of the conflicts under consideration were even minor obstacles created to the deployment of Amer’s groups and their allies (just don’t need arguments that there was nothing to disrupt: the fact is clear - the deployment was not disrupted in any of the cases).
    5. Why do we need aircraft carriers? a) Cover groups of heterogeneous forces while ensuring the combat stability of strategic nuclear forces groups; b) cover groups (operational squadrons, etc.) when operating in remote ocean areas (even when performing peacekeeping, etc. tasks); c) support groupings of landing forces in the event of the liberation of the Kuril Islands and other Russian islands, if they are captured.
  81. 0
    12 March 2013 23: 01
    Well, and also a repost to the author, because he did not answer my question in the previous article about aircraft carriers:
    Following this logic, tanks, artillery, and the Strategic Missile Forces are not needed (after all, they have never been used for more than half a century of history, too!), And money is also spent on their creation and operation. In addition, maintaining the combat stability of the Strategic Missile Forces in hostilities without the use of nuclear weapons is a headache for the entire territorial defense system. The conclusion that a strike on any American avma will lead to a nuclear war is a bullshit - not all such "Khrushchevs like you" are ready for the suicide of human civilization.
    Here's another. The form of using the armed forces in peacetime is strategic deterrence (in relation to the United States, I would call it strategic pressure), which quite effectively allows them to achieve their goals anywhere in the world. Avma as part of the AUG and AUS perform just such tasks: even purely psychologically, the threat of a missile-air strike from land airfields thousands of kilometers away does not tickle your nerves as much as the presence of AUG almost at a distance of direct optical visibility. As for the assessment of the actions of carrier-based aircraft in armed conflicts in terms of equity participation, this is a one-sided assessment. Firstly, as you say, the avma is a very expensive toy to strike from him, subject him to the threat of retaliation. In this case, of course, it is better to operate from remote ground airfields. Secondly, for some reason the fight in its pure form "air-sea" is considered. But after all, ground airfields are very susceptible to the influence of the land component - they can be exposed to both regular (special forces, RDG groups, etc., and, of course, the actual ground forces and equipment) and irregular formations (terrorists, extremists, fundamentalists ...). Yes, their activities can simply block the local population protesting against participation in the war. Thirdly, have you tried to evaluate the use of avma from the standpoint of prevented damage, when the "demonstration of the flag" made it possible to achieve goals without the use of weapons for their intended purpose?
    Of course, I understand that abstraction allows us to consider the subject of research in a "purer" form, but after such an analysis, it is logical to synthesize the results obtained with the object of consideration in all its interconnection with its other aspects.
    And, finally, a personal request: please give a detailed, complete definition of the concepts of "combat sortie", "aircraft sortie", "non-combat sortie"? This is not an ironic "test for lice", it is just that none of the professionals gave me an unambiguous answer to this question. Thanks in advance!
  82. 0
    7 May 2017 13: 19
    But here is our handsome man, both cheap and cheerful..
  83. 0
    17 October 2018 18: 36
    Okay, all this is clear, one thing is not clear to me: what will this ship do if a couple of 30 mm shells from an aircraft cannon accidentally explode on its flight deck? Aircraft carrier specialists are aware that the deck must be ABSOLUTELY clean of any foreign objects, such as nuts, bolts, small pieces of plating and why not debris that could get into the turbine of a taking off aircraft?

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"