Pepelats? Without a gravitsapa?? Again???

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Pepelats? Without a gravitsapa?? Again???


Stunning news, which will make many smile later: the first prototype of the Model 437 from Northrop Grumman subsidiary Scaled Composites took to the air. This aircraft was developed as an advanced combat UAV "Faithful wingman" since at least 2021, but this first issue appeared in a very unusual way: with a pilot's cabin, that is, for some reason, the drone was converted into a pilot's cabin. And there is something to think about here.



For starters, this whole program of a sixth-generation fighter jet surrounded by a flock of UAVs, some of which will carry weapons, some modules EW, who have additional radars (in general, the idea of ​​“eyes” that poke around 100 km ahead and look out for the enemy is good, there’s no argument there), who have fuel tanks – it’s stalled so much that smoke is coming out.

The fighter is a nightmare, but we'll talk about that in the next article. What you can't take away from the Americans is that if they screw up again, they have the strength and courage to admit it. Yes, you can't get back the billions wasted, on the contrary, you'll have to spend a bunch of billions more, but nevertheless. They'll still draw up billions, there's no problem with that.

The first images of Northrop Grumman's Model 437, an advanced combat drone that could potentially meet the "loyal wingman" needs of joint combat programs aviation (CCA) Air Force and/or Navy, as well as allied programs, have hit social media. The relatively small tactical jet looks impressive and matches the concept images we've seen, except for one important detail - it has a cockpit.


Yes, that's right, the Model 437 prototype does have a cockpit. While that may seem extremely odd for what's supposed to be an advanced air combat drone, it actually makes a certain amount of sense and could possibly give Northrop Grumman (NG) an edge in the competition to deliver hundreds, if not thousands, of highly autonomous drones US Air Force and Navy the fleet.

When concept art was first unveiled in 2021, the Model 437 was envisioned to operate alongside manned aircraft, both fighters and larger aircraft, primarily to protect the latter. It's not a bad idea, an air tanker hanging out over the Pacific Ocean is an easy target, and a couple or four of these would provide useful cover.


The general characteristics of the drone were announced as follows:

"As for the new Model 437 design, it is also expected to have a range of about 3000 nautical miles (4800 km) with a 4000-pound (1800 kg) fuel load and be able to fly at about Mach 0,8 (970 km/h), according to Aviation Week.

The drone has an internal payload bay designed to carry up to 1000 pounds (454 kg) of bombs or missiles. A pair of AIM-120s were considered as standard armament, with an AMRAAM or side-looking radar sensor being two possible loadouts."

We don't know if these characteristics have changed since the redesign, but they look generally the same as the aircraft in the photos from the Mojave Air and Space Port.


In fact, the 437 is almost concept art, a model that has clearly evolved from the 401 demonstrator, which has evolved on its own and has been brought to a point where it is actually ready. The 401 is now being touted as having potential for offerings, alongside the 437 in production drone configuration.

In general, it is as it is, a pilot and a drone. But there are a couple of nuances here


The two-seat Model 401 demonstrator aircraft have been flying continuously for many years, performing various test missions, some of which likely concern the future of manned/unmanned interactions in tactical aviation. Thus, by default, the supposedly huge risk for the Model 437 is already offset by the existence of more than one Model 401 and its test missions.

But why build a prototype of the Model 437, a supposedly highly autonomous drone, with a cockpit? It's a logical question, right?


To answer it, we need to understand what the control platform will be based on. Of course, it would be better if the American gentlemen leaked more information that interests us, but for now we have what we have.

Flying this initial prototype greatly increases the potential for rapid flight testing and refinement of the airframe and the Model 437 concept as a whole. Benefits include easy access to controls in critical situations virtually anywhere they are needed, and not just during the testing phase. It goes deeper than that, or, since we are talking about aviation, higher.

Drones are still very limited in where and how they can operate. Whether it’s a human operator or an AI, a pilot removes this bottleneck entirely and means the aircraft can go where it needs to go to take part in any training mission or exercise, no matter how complex.

The craft can do any maneuver in any conditions, unencumbered by typical drone airspace restrictions and the need for control aircraft that might be needed in certain situations. Simply moving to another location with a manned craft to gain access to airspace where it can fly as an unmanned aircraft is, according to the Americans, a huge advantage.

For now, we emphasize in bold and bold: we are talking about test and training flights. That is, Model 437 will move from point to point in a training flight and perform tasks under human control. Okay, I understand.


For many tests, having a human on board can increase the speed at which they can be completed. In fact, initial flight testing of a glider will proceed much faster with a pilot at the controls. In general, greater risks can be taken when performing autonomous operations with a pilot who can take control and ensure safety if necessary.

But here, there is immediately scope for various maneuvers and manipulations.

If the Model 437 prototype we see is a dedicated manned configuration, it is very possible that NG and SC have more Model 437 airframe prototypes in an unmanned configuration, or at least one in development. Then there is a chance that the aircraft we see is indeed optionally manned, with the focus being on the UAV. But something about this stories makes you think that not everything is so clear-cut.

When it comes to manned aircraft, it would be hard to argue that many companies have more experience with the concept.

There was such an optionally manned observation aircraft as the Northrop Grumman Firebird.


It never went into production due to lack of customer interest, but it was a really interesting design. And there were a lot of interesting ideas that went into its development. If the Model 437 prototype can actually become a normal airplane or be converted to an unmanned configuration after initial flight testing, you can be sure that parts of the Firebird DNA are woven into its design, especially into the onboard control and communications architecture.

Scaled Composites' Firebird program is about a decade and a half old. This brings us to the question of whether the 437 could be designed for operational use, rather than just testing, if that's even possible.

The answer to this question is probably no, but we are guessing a little. It is worth remembering that NG representatives said that the serial version of the manned model 401 is supposed to be optionally manned and will be available in an unmanned version, which could work together with the model 437 or independently. It's all quite confusing, but we have what we have.

And as a result, we see with our own eyes a device in which the cockpit canopy is replaced by a fairing that can hide satellite communication systems, avionics and additional sensors. Or a device in which instead of control systems there is a pilot's cabin, which is not the most comfortable.


Let's just assume: Model 437 did not fly autonomously as expected. So the pepelats was urgently fitted with a gravitsapa, that is, equipped with a pilot's cabin, in order to first simply lift the craft into the air and study its flight capabilities.

A conventional aircraft variant? It seems unlikely, but it is interesting to think about. A relatively cheap, subsonic, light tactical jet with low stealth characteristics, long range, and almost identical to its unmanned counterpart is certainly an intriguing idea. It is possible that many countries would be interested in such a reconnaissance aircraft, especially those that do not have a developed military with command centers and satellites in low Earth orbit.

But what about escorting a sixth-generation fighter that is supposed to instill fear and terror in the Russians and Chinese?


And here the American Navy is silent, as if it had taken on water in its holds... It is worth remembering that Northrop Grumman withdrew from the US Air Force tender for the creation of manned fighters of the Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) in order to focus on a similar initiative for the Navy. There is a high probability that this aircraft is intended for use as a drone within the framework of this initiative, at least in a form suitable for use on an aircraft carrier. But this is a probability that in reality - it is impossible to say for sure yet.

The Navy has not made up its mind, the Air Force has made up its mind, but there are also a ton of difficulties there, General Atomics, Anduril, Boeing, Kratos have already clashed over contracts, and Lockheed Martin should not be discounted either.


And today, what the guys from Scaled Composites have built, that is, a kind of drone, but with the ability to control a pilot, is presented as a real victory. They say that this is an important innovation that can potentially give Scaled Composites a unique advantage in the implementation of autonomous unmanned tactical aircraft.

Perhaps the parent company of the developers, that is, Northrop Grumman, could shed some light on the situation? Yes, NG issued its own press release dedicated to the digital aspect of the development of the Model 437, which in the manned version received its own name Vanguard. Incidentally, Northrop Grumman also called the 437 a “technology demonstrator”…

So, here's the Northrop Grumman press release:

“Development began in a fully digital system with Northrop Grumman, the customer and user suppliers collaborating to design, analyze, assemble and test the wings in advance of the Model 437’s first flight on August 29.

The Digital Pathfinder project demonstrated how the company's fully digital engineering ecosystem reduces rework, accelerates schedules and reduces costs, offering customers benefits in future aircraft programs.

Leveraging real-world experience gained from programs including the B-21 Raider, the company continues to evolve its digital collaboration ecosystem that connects the company, customers and supplier partners throughout the design, development and testing phases of a variety of current and future programs.

The digital ecosystem reduced rework and redesign by less than one percent, compared to 15-20 percent using traditional methods. The demonstration also used high-fidelity models coupled with rigorous and approved model validation schemes, reducing ground and flight testing requirements. Looking to the future, these models demonstrate the potential to significantly reduce the workload required to determine airworthiness, offering additional opportunities for cost and schedule savings.

With Digital Pathfinder, Northrop Grumman's highly reliable digital thread has connected engineers, customers and stakeholders in a virtual environment, enabling them to proactively anticipate and resolve the types of issues that commonly arise in acquisition programs, significantly improving program performance."

Here is a press release from Northrop Grumman that practically explains that their newest digital system for developing aircraft models is really so-so. The developments of that very 6th generation fighter also indirectly confirm this.


Yes, it is very easy to work out some aspects of modeling on a computer screen, thanks to the latest programs. Draw, calculate, polish…, but as practice shows, it is even possible to calculate quite intelligently how to attach a pilot's cabin where it should not be.

But the plane will still fly according to its own laws. Which, as you can see, are not subject to the calculations of the “digital ecosystem”.

If the Model 437 is really a training version, and the device was created specifically to train control systems under human control, this is a completely normal option, but if the device even flew after the drone was converted into a pilot, then the sixth generation of American fighters and their “faithful wingmen” becomes not so much scary as funny.

They don’t know that a pepelats without a gravitsapa is not fit for flight.
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  1. 16+
    8 September 2024 04: 53
    I don't find it funny when I see our "potential adversaries" developing the latest types of military equipment. And our Ministry of Defense slept through the beginning of this process, while there remains hope that after the "landings" in the Ministry of Defense there will be a "take-off" in the development of new types of weapons such as drones.
    1. 20+
      8 September 2024 04: 57
      I agree, I didn't see anything funny in the article. We haven't been able to figure out the Kraina for three years, but we laugh at the striped ones.
      1. +6
        8 September 2024 07: 46
        I started reading the article and thought it was another one of Kirill's creations. But no, Roman was dragged into technical topics again. I just didn't understand what he was so diligently mocking in the article. Especially if you compare...
        1. +7
          8 September 2024 13: 15
          Quote: Good evil
          I just didn’t understand what he was so diligently mocking in the article.

          Above the drone with a pilot. Only he forgot that our first anti-ship missiles in test flights, for practicing guidance, were also made with a pilot, in order to teach the missile to fly and be guided. And now AI can learn with the help of a pilot in a real situation, so I don’t see anything funny, everything is according to plan, and what their plan is, we don’t know.
          1. +3
            8 September 2024 20: 58
            Well, there is still a difference here, with a missile everything is “simpler”, the missile was launched, its seeker either captured the target or did not capture it, but there is no task to return it back.
            But here the task is several orders of magnitude more complicated, it is assumed that an autonomous slave huge UAV, which works in a “team” with a sixth-generation aircraft. The first thing that hinders us is the theory of reliability, it directly states that a person is a unique link in automation that can maintain the functioning of the system within the specified parameters, even in the event of the failure of one or more key nodes of the system. For example, the famous landing on Hudson, when the plane, while gaining altitude, after a collision with birds, both engines failed and the pilots were able to land the plane on Hudson. Not one AI, etc., known now can cope with such a task, it is not even clear how to debug it, even using simulation there is no guarantee that the AI ​​will cope, the maximum that it can do is return back to the airfield and where there is equipment for automatic landing, but in the case of Hudson, neither the speed nor the altitude would be enough.
            Now, returning to our slave UAV, imagine our huge UAV, loaded to the maximum with bombs and missiles, loses its engines (or one), will its AI be able to take this UAV away from residential buildings, it is not even clear how to model it to be sure that it works. If the UAV is still controlled remotely, then it is not clear why this concept with a slave, if now you can control the UAV via satellite while being overseas. Of course, you can come up with all the satellites shot down, the connection is suppressed, but then there will be no time for a “slave UAV”. In my humble opinion, for now a slave UAV is marketing.
          2. +4
            9 September 2024 12: 22
            Buran also had a piloted version, even with additional engines, took off like an airplane. And on the first flight it landed without a launch. In general, the presence of a test pilot while the machine is being "put on the wing" speeds up R&D. It's not a sin to whip up a temporary cabin for the job.
        2. +1
          8 September 2024 13: 54
          You took the words right out of my mouth! It seems like there is one author, but he writes under two "pseudonyms".
      2. +5
        8 September 2024 07: 47
        It is only necessary to take into account that the Armed Forces of Ukraine is being helped by the entire “Western world”.
        1. 0
          8 September 2024 08: 00
          Quote: Matsuda Kabushiki
          It is only necessary to take into account that the Armed Forces of Ukraine is being helped by the entire “Western world”.

          And this is Russia's "merit". It seems like there is neither communism nor socialism in Russia - but no one wants to help.
          and for some reason everyone is helping Ukraine, forgiving debts, while in Russia at this time there is capitalism, and our authorities are asking the West:
          - We are our own, bourgeois?
          1. -2
            8 September 2024 10: 23
            Quote: Vladimir-TTT
            ...and in Russia at this time there is capitalism, and our authorities ask the West:
            - We are our own, bourgeois?

            You apparently haven't read "The Tale of Malchish-Kibalchish"?
            You would understand that for "jars of jam and packs of cookies" you have to pay with your own skin.
            It seems like with Saddam Hussein (after his "coordination with the USA" of invading Kuwait - for the world that turned into an Aggressor. The "jam" lovers presented it in such a way that the noble tasks of the SVO were vulgarized to "Aggression against a sovereign state".

            I read that there were plans that, in the event of Stalin's "Preemptive Strike" against Hitler, the Western countries would have merged in a single impulse with Germany, in a similar development of events to the modern case.
            History repeats itself, in an alternative version, but worse, for Russia.
            1. -2
              8 September 2024 11: 45
              The noble goals of the SVO? Is that what you call the oligarchs' defense of their economic interests?
              1. +2
                9 September 2024 01: 57
                Aren't the noble goals of the SVO?! Protecting the interests of the oligarchy?! Are you serious? Has leftist propaganda completely eaten away at your Moscow?
              2. 0
                12 September 2024 12: 35
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                The noble goals of the SVO? Is that what you call the oligarchs' defense of their economic interests?

                You probably find it hard to understand that people were killed in Donbass since 2014, and Russia acted as the Guarantor of the ceasefire? The fact that the thieves' bosses have vulgarized "their own desires" does not make the SVO less noble, in essence.
        2. +3
          8 September 2024 17: 59
          It is only necessary to take into account that the Armed Forces of Ukraine is being helped by the entire “Western world”.

          This has been repeated like a mantra since the beginning of the war, although all we see is the constant approval of aid packages, the transfer of a fairly small amount of often outdated weapons and restrictions on the type, do not shoot there with our weapons and do not attack there, except that they can provide high-quality intelligence.
        3. +3
          8 September 2024 18: 58
          Would you like to swap with them? Well, so that the Russian military-industrial complex and Iran with the DPRK would work for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the Russian army would be "assisted" by Western countries - thirty Abrams and missiles that cannot be fired at enemy territory.
          1. +1
            9 September 2024 01: 48
            Absolutely right! The fact that the West is providing assistance to Ukraine is not assistance at all, but a disservice that keeps the patient in comatose - in a relatively alive state, so that he doesn't kick the bucket.
      3. +1
        8 September 2024 10: 02
        Quote: ASSAD1
        I agree, I didn’t see anything funny in the article.

        It's not about laughter. The main point is that the rapidly progressing development of electronic warfare can put an end to the unmanned direction. From here "the legs" of reorientation grow, to manned, and back.
        And our delay with long-range UAVs can make us the first "from the end". In essence, "Chess" is an analogue.
        1. 0
          8 September 2024 11: 05
          The rapidly progressing development of electronic warfare may put an end to the unmanned direction.

          It is unlikely to be put to rest, the old story of the battle between shells and armor will repeat itself, everything develops in a cycle. UAVs with fiber optic control are already appearing, which do not care about electronic warfare. UAVs with AI are next in line, it will also be difficult to find an antidote for them.
        2. +1
          8 September 2024 11: 24
          Quote: skeptic
          The main point is that the rapidly progressing development of electronic warfare may put an end to the unmanned direction.
          Unlikely: they are not building controlled but autonomous drones, the accompanying aircraft only sets them clarifying tasks. If there is no communication, they will act according to the plan (program).
        3. +2
          8 September 2024 14: 17
          Electronic warfare affects external control systems, and if a UAV has autonomous guidance and positioning systems, then electronic warfare doesn’t matter to it!
          For example, it simply receives an order to destroy a target in a square and the UAV itself enters the square, finds the target and uses weapons like a manned aircraft, and how will electronic warfare interfere with it in this case?
          1. -1
            8 September 2024 15: 49
            Under the influence of electronic warfare, it will not find the target - the most obvious answer.
            1. +3
              8 September 2024 16: 34
              Optics are not jammed by electronic warfare, that's one thing, and jamming AFAR is also not an easy task, I think. In addition, electronic warfare is a signal source that is easily targeted by anti-aircraft missiles like Khramov, so it won't be possible to jam it all the time! Electronic warfare complicates the task of attacking forces, nothing more. FPV drones, despite a bunch of electronic warfare, destroy targets en masse!
            2. +1
              8 September 2024 20: 59
              Then cruise missiles would not "work".
      4. +1
        8 September 2024 10: 38
        Don't confuse warm with soft. If Russia were at war with Ukraine, the war would have ended long ago. I think it would have been done in a year. But the war is with NATO, and it has "wider" capabilities. As for the article - most likely another budget embezzlement. "Lockheed" is raking in the dough, "Boeing". And "Northrop" - what, redheads? They also want to eat)))
        1. 0
          8 September 2024 17: 47
          Just don't whine when NATO comes to war with its entire fleet and air force.

          Well, regarding "we would have done it in a year". The advance of the Russian Armed Forces finally stopped in the summer of 2022 - after the capture of Severodonetsk and Lisichansk, and at that time it was impossible to talk about any serious military assistance.
          1. -1
            8 September 2024 20: 50
            Only NATO won't come, because they don't need a missile-nuclear strike. The pumping of Banderland with modern technology and weapons began somewhere around 2015, not 2022. Then they started talking about it openly.
            1. -1
              8 September 2024 21: 19
              The pumping of Banderland with modern technology and weapons began somewhere around 2015

              What, excuse me? Helmets and Humvees? Don't make me laugh. The most serious thing that was delivered to Ukraine was Javelins, and that happened under Trump, and nothing serious was delivered to Ukraine under the Obama administration.
              1. -1
                8 September 2024 23: 36
                Did you get this from open sources? And what was supplied without advertising? Communication systems, electronic warfare, KBB radars are not weapons, but try to fight without them.
        2. 0
          9 September 2024 02: 07
          Naturally, if NATO and the Americans had not actively supported the Bandar-logs afloat, they would not have lasted even half a year. This has been written about many times in the specified media. Like, if it were not for our support, the Russians would have swallowed Ukraine long ago.
    2. +7
      8 September 2024 08: 12
      hope that after the "landings" in the Ministry of Defense there will be a "take-off" in the development of new models

      Yeltsin's wild 90s in the military-industrial complex, and in the entire economy as a whole, reminds me intercourse interrupted, at the very moment when the husband, who at that time no one was expecting, entered the bedroom. They interrupted, but resuming is a problem... wink
      1. 0
        8 September 2024 10: 45
        Interruption was done, but resuming is a problem...
        Instantly - of course it's a problem, the personnel in the military-industrial complex are no longer Soviet, we have to wait 15 years (10 - school, 5 - college) to resume the pace of production.
        1. +2
          8 September 2024 15: 40
          Quote: Aviator_
          wait 15 years (10 - school, 5 - college) to resume production

          And this is the bare minimum...
        2. +1
          8 September 2024 21: 01
          The problem is the shortage of highly qualified, low-paid specialists.
          1. 0
            8 September 2024 21: 38
            The problem is the shortage of highly qualified, low-paid specialists.
            As long as they remain underpaid, the problem will only grow.
    3. 0
      8 September 2024 14: 16
      And why did you decide that ours are not developing, the SVO in Ukraine showed the expediency of some types of weapons, and the uselessness of others. So ours are developing and even very successful in this regard.
      1. 0
        9 September 2024 02: 16
        Yes, to be fair, our people should also be given their due, albeit belatedly, but nevertheless, our people are also now trying to develop in this direction and not lag far behind.
    4. 0
      8 September 2024 20: 28
      Dear "Andy_nsk" - Andrey! True, it's not funny... And our RF Ministry of Defense didn't miss anything... It is the same "cast" of our society, which is in a socio-economic formation called "capitalism", which is in the "accumulation" stage... And the law, in the accumulation stage, is one - to accumulate, to get rich... Here "include" the 30 - year "emasculation" of the brains of the population by "new Western values", where at the forefront: egoism, personal enrichment, indifference to the state and its people... There was and is still a "moronization" of society through upbringing, education, culture... And in the Ministry of Defense - the same "Russians", with the same problems, demands, views on life, their present and future, though not all, there are also "old school" and upbringing, but they, unfortunately, are few and far between......
      1. 0
        9 September 2024 14: 16
        I don't think the problems are due to capitalism. I am an engineer and work in the production of high-tech products (a relatively large scientific and production enterprise with 400 employees). The owner is one person, he is also the founder of the enterprise and the CEO. Everything was created from scratch (I also participated in this as an engineer).
        Private property needs new developments for its development (I can compare it with socialism, I worked in a large research institute, the most accurate definition is stagnation). In the current situation with communications, drones, high-precision weapons, etc. I blame EXCLUSIVELY the military structures (the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff). The only good thing is that progress has been made with gliding bombs, but why it has only been made after two years of war is a big question!
    5. 0
      8 September 2024 22: 06
      Quote from Andy_nsk
      And our Ministry of Defense slept through the beginning of this process, while there remains hope that after the “landings” in the Ministry of Defense there will be a “take-off” in the development of new types of weapons such as drones.

      The Ministry of Defense itself will not push anything to take off, because it cannot. It can order something, but what and when? Luxurious, furnished offices with amenities and adjutants, without sufficient kicks for active work do not dispose! They are not sitting in trenches and nothing is whistling or exploding over their heads!
      1. 0
        9 September 2024 14: 27
        The Ministry of Defense shouldn't push anything. Generals responsible for new types of weapons should sign contracts with enterprises capable of producing them. And they hand out money to affiliated structures for a clear reason. "For friendship!"
  2. +6
    8 September 2024 05: 21
    They have something that flies, they do something, and what about us? Does this fly?
    1. +2
      8 September 2024 07: 39
      It flies and very beautifully! In cartoons..... soldier
      Happy holiday to all tankers!
  3. +6
    8 September 2024 05: 29
    Some kind of peculiarity of the modern world.
    We lost a combat aircraft and a pilot - that's all, it's a tragedy.
    But then they arrange a meat grinder, where soldiers die in the thousands - and the media "savour" this with pleasure. Such ghouls, rejoicing in deaths. Because in this type of military action the losses of the parties are commensurate, and even peaceful civilians suffer quite a lot.
    Not only ordinary soldiers are dying, but also officers. Combat officers, and not all those close to the supreme commander who are hiding and sitting it out.
    Airplanes must fight. Losses are inevitable. As are losses of pilots.
    Expensive?
    In order for pilot training to be cheaper, there must be sufficient mass training.
    The same thing with the production of airplanes. They need to be produced.
    But here the interests of those close to the top authorities come into play - namely, embezzlement.
    It is very difficult to steal a large sum from the production of a relatively mass-produced inexpensive device.
    But the development of something that has no analogues is 90% pure cutting.
    1. -2
      8 September 2024 12: 26
      Because all animals in the jungle are equal, but some are more equal.
      There are heroic professions and all the rest.
      If a submarine sinks and a hundred people with it due to someone's negligence, they will remember it for 40 years. But the fact that in Russia every day (including that tragic day) 40 people die in road accidents - whoever wants to knows about it, whoever doesn't doesn't know, and monuments to these dead people are not erected in squares.
  4. +4
    8 September 2024 05: 31
    Sooner or later the Americans will get something, new technologies, new materials, like with Comanche, a bunch of other projects, they don’t stand still, they’ll pour in a bunch of money and do it.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +5
    8 September 2024 06: 14
    Underestimating the enemy plays a bad role. Karabakh is an example of this. Our Ministry of Defense seems to have ignored the experience of the Azerbaijani army with the use of UAVs, as if the Armenian air defense is bad...

    This American aircraft, unification of piloted and unmanned variants, the economy must be economical, our Su-57 may be a good aircraft, but it is very expensive and you can’t build many of them. The super maneuverability and speed that we were constantly told about turned out to be unnecessary, since the ability to withstand overloads by the pilot is limited to 9 g, and modern missiles can withstand up to 100 g.

    Our aviation was developing in the wrong direction and the SVO showed it. Our quantitative advantage did not turn into quality, and propaganda attempts to convince with one-time strikes of KABs from airplanes and NARs from helicopters with pitching do not look very good.

    What is especially striking is the conviction of some on the forum that the FAB 3000 has a radius of continuous destruction of one kilometer. If that were the case, we would have destroyed the Ukrainian Armed Forces to zero long ago.

    Our superplanes do not fly over Kiev at any speed or altitude, so why make little and expensive when you can make a lot and cheap? I'm talking about UAVs and this "Model 437".
    1. man
      -2
      8 September 2024 08: 55
      Our Su-57 may be a good plane, but it is very expensive and you can’t build many of them. Super maneuverability and speed which we were constantly told about, It turned out to be unnecessary, since the pilot's ability to withstand overloads is limited to 9 g, while modern rockets can withstand up to 100 g.
      Excuse the amateur, but then maybe based on the Su-57 we could make some fashionable drone for some special, extremely important occasions?
      1. -5
        8 September 2024 09: 01
        Excuse the amateur, but then maybe based on the Su-57 we could make some fashionable drone for some special, extremely important occasions?

        It won't be cheaper. A drone must be cheap. And if it is expensive, then it must be very unnoticeable, but this is difficult. The improvement of modern air defense systems neutralizes the development of combat manned aviation in the combat zone and over enemy territory.
        1. man
          -1
          8 September 2024 09: 15
          Quote: Konnick
          Excuse the amateur, but then maybe based on the Su-57 we could make some fashionable drone for some special, extremely important occasions?

          It won't be cheaper. A drone must be cheap. And if it is expensive, then it must be very unnoticeable, but this is difficult. The improvement of modern air defense systems neutralizes the development of combat manned aviation in the combat zone and over enemy territory.

          I understand that it will be very expensive. But without a pilot, it will be able to reach the highest speed.. I would like to emphasize once again that it should be used in unique and important cases.
          1. -4
            8 September 2024 09: 32
            I understand that it will be very expensive. But without a pilot it will be able to reach the highest speed

            It is not the pilot who limits the speed, but the heating of the air. Even hypersonic missiles are blind, because they move in a cloud of plasma. And what is the point of speed?
            1. man
              -2
              8 September 2024 09: 35
              Quote: Konnick
              I understand that it will be very expensive. But without a pilot it will be able to reach the highest speed

              It is not the pilot who limits the speed, but the heating of the air. Even hypersonic missiles are blind, because they move in a cloud of plasma. And what is the point of speed?

              But I proceeded from your statement:
              The super-maneuverability and speed that we were constantly told about turned out to be unnecessary, since the pilot’s ability to withstand overloads is limited to 9 g, while modern rockets can withstand up to 100 g.
              1. -6
                8 September 2024 09: 55
                But I proceeded from your statement.

                Don't distort. That's not how to conduct a dialogue. I wrote that speed is not important, in support of the concept of the ashcan presented in the article, as R.S. put it:
                1. man
                  0
                  8 September 2024 15: 01
                  Quote: Konnick
                  But I proceeded from your statement.

                  Don't distort. That's not how to conduct a dialogue. I wrote that speed is not important, in support of the concept of the ashcan presented in the article, as R.S. put it:

                  My very first words were that I was an amateur in aviation, why should I distort the facts? And you are too lazy to even reread your own words about the Su-57... From them I concluded that the Su-57 was not in demand, and timidly suggested that the development be used, what a pity... And in response there were strange accusations... or are you an amateur like me?
                  Then I'm sorry, I mistook you for a specialist...
          2. 0
            8 September 2024 21: 48
            Existing control channels do not currently allow the creation of UAVs that are fully suitable for air combat.
        2. 0
          8 September 2024 21: 00
          The main thing for a drone is not to be cheap, but to be cheaper than an airplane capable of performing the same tasks. Even without taking into account the cost of training a pilot.
      2. -1
        8 September 2024 14: 03
        No country in the world can INDEPENDENTLY build a "5th generation" aircraft in large quantities (1500 or more) of units. It cannot handle it either financially or technically. The F 35 is produced in cooperation with many dozens of countries.
        1. 0
          30 September 2024 13: 51
          It’s just more profitable to build the F-35 in cooperation, cheaper.
    2. +1
      4 October 2024 15: 12
      Listen, why weren't our planes on the right track? They are clearly no worse than other 4th generation fighters, and in many ways even better. First of all, the price of our fighters is 3, 4, or even 5 times less than Western ones. And our Aerospace Forces drop a lot of FABs, if we believe Zelensky, about 40 a year. An incredibly formidable and numerous weapon of our Aerospace Forces.
      I can only agree that our tactics are stupid, we do not concentrate the power of the Aerospace Forces on one section of the front, but strike everywhere and a little bit at a time, and that is why there is not much effect. + somehow they calculated that our planes make 150-200, maximum 300 sorties per day, compare this with the same Israel which makes 300-500, and maximum 800+ sorties per day. Or NATO also made 1100+ sorties per day during the bombing of Yugoslavia.
      The SU-57 is also cheap, 35 million dollars, not much.
      But the rate of construction of our aircraft is terribly low.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Des
    +4
    8 September 2024 06: 25
    The operation of various unmanned systems in the United States is ahead of the rest of the world.
    Fact.
    Therefore, if in this model the Americans decided to continue with combined control, this does not diminish their primacy at all. Maybe this is a "step back" in the development of unmanned systems, but in order to then rush forward.
    In such (certainly interesting and useful) articles, in addition to irony, the author could talk about the quantitative, qualitative and prospective state of affairs in China and the Russian Federation. At least briefly.
    Then it wouldn't be funny to him).
    1. +5
      8 September 2024 06: 29
      This may be a "step back" in the development of unmanned systems, but in order to then leap forward.

      This is not a "step back", it is a bonus that expands the capabilities of the aircraft.
      1. +5
        8 September 2024 07: 52
        I think this cabin is only needed during the period of fine-tuning the device. Once the device is debugged, the cabin will disappear.
        1. +5
          8 September 2024 08: 33
          I agree, back in the late 40s, early 50s, during testing of the Kometa anti-ship missile, a pilot's cabin was installed on it, which made it possible to significantly reduce the time frame and reduce the cost. And what prevents this from being done today?
        2. 0
          8 September 2024 08: 50
          They'll debug the device and the cabin will disappear.

          But this is not at all necessary! smile After all, the manned version can be useful in many places - not deep behind the front lines, where you can send the unmanned version "with a light heart", but, for example, over your territory in the border area and not far from the LBS, to control the terrain. Until there is a sufficiently compact and sufficiently perfect AI that can be placed in such a small aircraft, the need for living human brains in the air will remain. Therefore, such a device (they are called optionally manned), which can be both manned and unmanned - is an undoubted benefit for those who have them ...
          1. +1
            8 September 2024 08: 55
            Of course, it is... But the cabin right in front of the air intake spoils the entire aerodynamics. In addition, the habitable cabin with controls is extra weight due to the combat load and complication/increase in cost of the entire product.
            1. 0
              8 September 2024 09: 09
              Of course, that's true... But the cabin right in front of the air intake messes up the entire aerodynamics.

              Let's take a closer look, is everything really that scary there?! lol
              Not very "scary".
              Moreover, with a person he will not have to fly deep into the enemy's rear, thousands of kilometers away. Yes, there will be a little more resistance, and accordingly the range will be a little less...
              1. 0
                8 September 2024 11: 05
                Quote: Strelkin
                Yes, there will be a little more resistance, and therefore a little less range...

                And combat load... And a higher price...
                1. -1
                  8 September 2024 11: 09
                  Well, so what?! What can you do?! It's inevitable. Either this way or nothing, if you really need an optionally piloted one.
                  There are no miracles, you have to pay for everything...
                  1. -1
                    8 September 2024 11: 16

                    Quote: Strelkin
                    Well, so what?! What can you do?! It's inevitable. Either this way or nothing, if you really need an optionally piloted one.

                    So, at the end we will get both a crappy fighter (or something manned) and an excessively overweight drone - therefore, also crappy. In any case, worse than it could be. And who needs it?
                    1. 0
                      8 September 2024 11: 28
                      So, at the end we will get a crappy fighter (or something manned)

                      No-no-no! There is no talk of a "fighter" here and there can't be: a sort of stealth "Po-2" for the frontline zone - to observe, command and coordinate, including ground forces - it is not necessary that there should be many such aircraft, perhaps very few, a small percentage.
                      and the drone is excessively heavy - therefore, it is also crappy.

                      And why would a drone suddenly be overweight?? Instead of a cabin, there will be anything: an additional fuel tank, additional reconnaissance or communications equipment, etc., etc. Moreover, there can be different options for loading additional equipment based on one original scheme.
                      At least worse than it could have been.

                      Once again: no one says that the unmanned version must have a cockpit, ejection seat, instrument panel, life support system, etc.
                      It is precisely simplicity and cheapness that are specifically stipulated here...
                      Who needs it?

                      To the customer. "Any whim of the client for his money!" laughing
                      1. +1
                        8 September 2024 11: 40
                        And here are the unmanned options: The unmanned Model 401 would be a technology demonstrator, but could later become a production vehicle
                        401 is on the left, in the picture on the right 437.
                      2. 0
                        8 September 2024 11: 50
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        Once again: no one says that the unmanned version must have a cockpit, ejection seat, instrument panel, life support system, etc.
                        It is precisely simplicity and cheapness that are specifically stipulated here...

                        So in the unmanned version the cabin with the canopy will disappear? And why then provide for a manned version with obviously lackluster data?
                        Of course, it is possible to design a device for use as both a limousine and a bulldozer, but is it worth doing? (I am exaggerating, of course). wink
                      3. The comment was deleted.
  9. 0
    8 September 2024 07: 43
    . but as practice shows, it is even possible to quite intelligently calculate how to attach the pilot's cabin where it should not be.

    The air intake is right behind the cockpit... One of them is superfluous.
    1. +2
      8 September 2024 08: 56
      Not at all. Because The air intake behind the cockpit significantly reduces the aircraft's frontal RCS. This is a stealth aircraft, it will have to operate deep behind enemy lines, so its minimum EPR is of great importance for it to be able to successfully complete the tasks assigned to it.
      And of course in a manned one serial option the lantern must be metallized, it is obligatory. During the tests it does not matter...
      1. 0
        8 September 2024 09: 26
        In addition, he will not have to participate in dogfights, where such air intakes are absolutely contraindicated for large angles of attack. And here it is just right...
  10. -1
    8 September 2024 07: 57
    This is how I see such an unmanned aircraft for us, for the SVO laughing (person in the picture for understanding the size)
    Its characteristics are approximately 1000-1000-1000, that is, range - combat load - speed. Ceiling 7 km, dimensions approximately 8x8 (fuselage length - wingspan)
    1. 0
      8 September 2024 08: 52
      The first association that came to mind when looking at your sketch was the F-100 "Supersabre". Especially in profile it is very similar.
      1. 0
        8 September 2024 08: 58
        I also thought about the first generation, it looks like a MiG-15, only unmanned and with a combat load of one ton laughing
  11. -3
    8 September 2024 08: 19
    Quote: ASSAD1
    I agree, I didn't see anything funny in the article. We haven't been able to sort things out with Kraina for three years, but we laugh at the striped ones


    And you can also laugh at Israel, which for almost a year now has been unable to deal with a handful of bogeymen in the Gaza Strip, despite all its wonder weapons.

    So, will they launch this pepelats into production and take revenge in Afghanistan, or will it work purely on Chinese balloons during breaks in the filming of the next Hollywood "heroic blockbuster"?
    1. +1
      8 September 2024 10: 21
      Everyone is bad at counter-partisan actions. The Union of Banderites drove through the forests for ten years after the war. Several times during this amnesty, declaring
    2. 0
      8 September 2024 21: 08
      Israel would have dealt with the bandits in a day, but there is also a “civilian population” there, despite all the conventionality of peace in that region.
  12. -3
    8 September 2024 09: 10
    It's high time for us to install a radar on the jet Geranium 2 and send it into the rear of the Banderites and somewhere far away for the Su-57 to fly and launch a missile at the maximum range and everyone will be happy, the Banderites will meet Bandera in hell, we will paint a star on the fuselage laughing
  13. +1
    8 September 2024 09: 32
    There is nothing funny about it
    They already have unmanned reconnaissance and refuelling drones. They wrote.
    Apparently, it is easier to test an unmanned fighter drone with a cockpit. This is logical.

    For now, our analogue "hunter" is classified and unique, and we don't have the much-hyped Su-75.

    this one, judging by the stiffening ribs, is partly stealth, partly cheap. which is already not bad for them
  14. 0
    8 September 2024 09: 39
    A manned vehicle, but originally unmanned, reminded me of the Reichenberg.
  15. +1
    8 September 2024 09: 55
    The volume in the fuselage in which the test pilot was currently seated,
    is well suited for the subsequent placement of means of communication with satellites. The concept of a manned aircraft with "slaves" located in different directions will be irrelevant in this case - a manned aircraft will be redundant.
  16. +6
    8 September 2024 10: 20
    Some new literary genre is observed. I don't even know what to call it, maybe "techno-humorous agitational-propaganda fantasy"? That is, a satirical work with the inclusion of technical terms in the text, based on real objects or events, reworked by the authors in order to give them the appropriate propaganda focus.
    As in this case - there is a real object - Model 437 "Vanguard". Information about the purpose of its creation can be found on the company's website and it fits into one sentence.
    The addition of a pilot aboard Northrop Grumman's autonomous Model 437 Vanguard aircraft is intended to speed up demonstrations and test flights because it can fly over populated areas without special FAA approvals and isn't restricted to test sites approved for unmanned aircraft.

    A second sentence can be added that an optionally piloted vehicle (OPV) is a hybrid of a conventional manned aircraft and an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) intended for use in research, experimentation, and conceptual development.
    Well, and then comes "artistic fiction".
  17. +6
    8 September 2024 10: 34
    Roman is taking more and more bread away from Petrosyan
  18. 0
    8 September 2024 10: 34
    Drones probably have a competitor in the form of CubeSats, which can also perform surveillance functions. Their generations can also be adapted very quickly and inexpensively when conditions change.
  19. -3
    8 September 2024 11: 43
    If we talk about the complexes and failures of the Self, then it seems that the Americans bow to the Teutonic genius as we do to them. It seemed to me alone that this ashcan resembles Heinkel's creation He 162 Salamander or Volksjager. True, the people's fighter was built and tested by the Nazis in 90 days, and the nation that everyone strives to imitate, having the best testers and designers, an endless resource of finance, has been digging around with prototypes for a long time.
    1. +7
      8 September 2024 13: 07
      And how does it resemble the He 162?
      The Germans wanted a lot, in the shortest possible time and from what was left.
      That's why they ended up with a concept, a technology demonstrator, absolutely unsuitable for war, especially for the fate for which it was intended.

      And these guys are in no hurry, they have a sea of ​​money. They work slowly. And they don't plan to send their ashcan to war.
  20. -3
    8 September 2024 13: 28
    Quote from Sumotori_380
    Everyone is bad at counter-partisan actions. The Union of Banderites drove through the forests for ten years after the war. Several times during this amnesty, declaring


    The Union chased and caught up. As well as the Lithuanian "forest brothers".
    The Yankees chased and chased, but in the end they ran away. laughing
    Israel has been chasing and chasing for more than half a century, and there is no end in sight to this Jewish ATO.
    1. 0
      8 September 2024 21: 18
      "The Union caught up" with so many local residents that they still haven't forgotten about it and they rushed to bury this union. But someone never learns...
  21. +4
    8 September 2024 16: 33
    Oh...Once again, the stupid Americans are doing very, very badly. And where things aren't so good, the product was created using designs stolen from the USSR in the 80s.
    I wonder how much the editors pay for such articles?
  22. BAI
    0
    8 September 2024 17: 37
    . What you can't take away from the Americans is that if they screwed up again, they have the strength and courage to admit it. Yes, you won't get back the billions wasted, on the contrary, you'll have to spend a bunch more billions, but nevertheless

    good position. you can make mistakes, but you can't lie.
    made a mistake. It happens to everyone. Let's forget about these billions and allocate new ones for a new idea.
    and everyone is good
  23. +3
    8 September 2024 20: 09
    "Banning" is probably good when there is a reason, an object, in the "presence" option... I am far from thinking that a potential enemy, now, has nothing to do in matters of defense and, specifically, in prospective aircraft manufacturing... Americans are very practical people who know the value of a dollar, and it is unlikely that random people who spend taxpayers' money on various "cinder blocks" are involved in planning prospective combat platforms... It makes sense to figure it out and delve into it... One "positive" moment is even indicated in Mr. Skomorokhov's note. This is an opportunity to speed up and simplify some elements of the testing program, to expand the approaches to understanding new capabilities of drones with their subsequent implementation.... The USA is not the country where underestimation of its work in defense issues, insufficient analysis and failure to include "in the work" of banal common sense cost the USSR-Russia very, very dearly... America is a rich country and, from time to time, can "afford" something from the "pepelats" series (in the opinion of home-grown experts), like the project in "marble and bronze" - "Zumwalt-class destroyer", DDG-1000... But! Based on such "trials and errors", something worthy of attention subsequently appears...
  24. 0
    9 September 2024 09: 02
    Quote from Avis
    "The Union caught up" with so many local residents that they still haven't forgotten about it and they rushed to bury this union. But someone never learns...


    The lesson is that the problem must be solved in full, without any "amnesties". The number of local residents turned out to be clearly insufficient. It is necessary to cut at the very root, then there will be no new growth of moral monsters.
  25. 0
    9 September 2024 11: 55
    Lately it is unclear: is it Military Review or autor.today? The articles have become very verbose, with frequent repetitions of the same thing, the same phrases. One thought, like a brain bone: sucked on from three or four sides, essentially repeating the same thing. And with the same words. )))))
    Everything written above is presented as an example of what I see. And as a Chukchi, what I sing about ))))
  26. 0
    25 October 2024 07: 28
    Lately, every article about the development of advanced/modernization of existing weapons in the West is always about "budget embezzlement", "taxpayer fraud" and "does not pose a danger".
    At the same time, when these samples “take off” and go into serial production, it will become clear that the “worldwide unparalleled” has not only no analogues, but nothing even close to it.
  27. 0
    2 November 2024 22: 04
    Americans in their role - print and make, develop and implement. And our engineering genius just opens his mouth and loses money and takes away his name. The authorities should have a lot of power in their fist, but in order to have it, in order to create, and not in order to steal.