"Mole Battalions - Tunnel Troops": Reporter Sladkov Calls for Intensification of Underground Attack Activities in the SVO Zone

Military корреспондент Александр Сладков в своем телеграм-канале вновь призвал высокие чины обратить внимание на более активное осуществление подземных атак в борьбе с ВСУ.

According to the war correspondent, similar attacks have already taken place in the SVO zone and were quite effective, so it is worth considering strengthening this area.

I propose to create a “battalion of moles” in each district.

- Sladkov wrote in Telegram.

The journalist said that he had raised the issue back when Sergei Shoigu was Defense Minister. He recalled how at the defense forum “Army 2018" trophy earthmoving equipment of Syrian militants was exhibited. According to him, he then proposed to start producing something similar, but modernized, in Russia on an industrial scale to use in the battles for Donbass. However, no one listened.

Now, during the liberation of Avdiivka, the volunteer brigade "Veterans" has proven that an underground passage and an attack from the rear decide a lot. Well, make tunnel troops.

- exclaims war correspondent Sladkov, adding that while we are thinking, our enemy will do it.

Comments

[Smoked]

Yes, it seems that even under linear tactics these were ordinary sappers and mine galleries. What other moles?! In WWI they regularly blew each other up, the craters still remain as if from a nuclear explosion.

[Lemon]

Sladkova is asked everywhere? He's pestering everyone with his moralizing. What a know-how he came up with.)))

[Netl]

Quote: Lemon

he's pestering me with his moralizing

What does Sdadkov and moralizing have to do with this? Surely it is possible to discuss the idea itself without resorting to personal attacks?

The idea is to provide engineering troops with special equipment for the rapid laying of tunnels if such an opportunity exists. There have been precedents of successful combat use of tunnels in various wars. There are almost no arguments against it.

[Bolt cutter]

There are almost no arguments against it.

Once tunnel attacks become common, explosive wells and primitive geophones (a simple stethoscope will do) will make this an ineffective and dangerous endeavor.

[Lev_Russia]

Once tunnel attacks become common, explosive wells and primitive geophones (a simple stethoscope will do) will make this an ineffective and dangerous endeavor.

There is no weapon against which a shield does not appear... But the weapon always appears first...

[Bolt cutter]

the shield didn't appear

In this case, the shield appeared and was tested in action more than 100 years ago - during the First World War.

[Lev_Russia]

In this case, the shield appeared and was tested in action more than 100 years ago - during the First World War.

Everything new is basically always long forgotten old...

[Egeny]

...give him a shovel and go ahead...)
Maybe it would be easier to send a "Trojan horse"?

[Netl]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

the shield appeared and was tested

IMHO, for some reason everyone looks at tunnels as a way to get behind enemy positions by secretly going underground. This is also possible, but it is a rare and difficult way to use tunnels.

And the most obvious and widespread is the supply of one's own troops in those areas where approaches are under fire. This has become especially relevant now, when drones are simply running amok on supply routes.

[Bolt cutter]

this is a supply

A modern ground penetrating radar on a heavy UAV will detect such a tunnel. The US makes such radars, so the Ukrainian Armed Forces will get them if necessary. And digging such a tunnel is a very labor-intensive task, which is not so easy to hide from intelligence.

[Netl]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

A modern ground penetrating radar on a heavy UAV will allow us to detect

Well, to work effectively, a georadar needs to fly low and not far from the observed surface. And this thing is very expensive and not at all stealthy, but quite the opposite. That is, the target is easy and a priority.

Well, and besides, even a discovered fragment of a tunnel is not easy to destroy from the outside. The Israelis in the SG tried to foam it, and invented tunnel drones, all sorts of toxic gases, etc. But the Jewish army was not completely successful. And the same engineering troops can repair small collapses quite quickly.

[Bolt cutter]

this thing is very expensive

For dill - free.

It is not easy to destroy a tunnel fragment from the outside.

A subway tunnel - cut through blue clay and lined with tubes - is not easy, and a simple one will collapse in no time.

[Netl]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

a simple one will collapse at once

Some kind of quickly erected pipe or arched structures are needed in any case. But even if a piece collapsed, what's so terrible? They drove the equipment through the tunnel, picked out the crumbled soil, restored the supporting structures and can use it again.

[Sedov]

But even if a piece did collapse, what's so terrible? They drove the equipment through the tunnel, picked out the crumbling soil, restored the supporting structures and it's ready to use again.

In the end, after the war, having laid the rails, it will be possible to organize a metro there.

[Simple]

Quote: Netl

Well, besides, even a discovered fragment of a tunnel is not easy to destroy from the outside.

Sladkov was inspired by the statement about the "tunnel troops" occupying mines through nearby veins (near Selidovo and Ugledar).
The beginning was laid
near Soledar, then in Avdeevka and near Toretsk.
But creating "tunnel troops" is going too far.
By the way, Hamas members don’t dig as deep as Donbass miners.

[alexoff]

And the most obvious and widespread is the supply of one's own troops in those areas where approaches are under fire. This has become especially relevant now, when drones are simply running amok on supply routes.

then it would be easier to stick three-meter-high poles along these paths and hang a serpyanka mesh or the simplest metal profile on the sides and on top. The enemy won't be able to track it, even if a section is demolished - he won't have time to react. It will be a hundred times easier and cheaper

[Netl]

Quote from alexoff

It's easier to stick three-meter-high poles along these paths and hang a serpyanka net on the sides and on top

This is, of course, easier. And such options exist. However, the tunnel has significant advantages over mesh structures:
1) Movement through a tunnel is much more difficult to detect, even if its presence is known. And such secrecy is extremely important for successful military operations.

2) The task of breaking through the mesh fences is solved by 2 FPV drones; the first one explodes on the mesh, the second one attacks the target. But the task of destroying the tunnel from the outside is very difficult. And even if it was possible to cause partial collapses, they are quickly eliminated and the tunnel can be used freely.

[alexoff]

Movement through a tunnel is much more difficult to detect, even if its presence is known.

the truth is that the labor costs are a thousand times greater, and it won't be difficult to detect the construction

The task of breaking through the mesh fences is solved by 2 FPV drones; the first one explodes on the mesh, the second one attacks the target.

I would look at this, how to see the target in advance under the net, and the hole in the net will be half a meter in diameter and try to fly through

But the task of destroying the tunnel from the outside is very difficult.

I wonder how to destroy a couple of kilometers of mesh corridor? Also with one FPV drone?

And even if partial collapses are caused, they are quickly eliminated and the tunnel can continue to be used freely.

A couple of men with a roll of new serpyanka, a coil of wire and pliers can patch a hole in the serpyanka in half an hour in ten minutes

[Netl]

Quote from alexoff

the truth is that the labor costs are a thousand times greater, and it won't be difficult to detect the construction

As for exactly a thousand times more labor costs, it is difficult to estimate. However, it can be noted that the main work is underground, which is definitely safer.
As for notching, it depends a lot on the organization of the work. If there is somewhere to dump the soil nearby, then notching is not so easy. It will look like a regular fortification construction.

Quote from alexoff

how to see the goal in advance under the net

Thermal imager. The grid for IR is highly permeable.

Quote from alexoff

how to destroy a couple of kilometers of mesh corridor

There is no need to destroy by kilometers, you need a hole large enough for the drone's FPV.

Quote from alexoff

A couple of men with a roll of serpyanka can patch a hole in the serpyanka in half an hour

That's true. Only these guys will be hit by enemy mortars, howitzers, possibly snipers and, of course, everyone's favorite FPV. And in the tunnel, everything is calm.

[alexoff]

Thermal imager. The grid for IR is highly permeable.

well, and the price of fpv increases by an order of magnitude. Besides, you can wrap the equipment inside with a cape

There is no need to destroy by kilometers, you need a hole large enough for the drone's FPV.

it won't fly far inside, especially if you stick fly tape inside

But these guys will be hit by enemy mortars, howitzers, possibly snipers and, of course, everyone’s favorite FPVs.

and here the unresolved and unsolvable question of counter-battery warfare appears. They talked and talked in 2022, the leadership ignored it, and now it is probably too late to start. So howitzers will be used to process the entrances and exits of the tunnels

[Netl]

Quote from alexoff

The price of fpv increases by an order of magnitude

According to open data, Mavic 3T costs about 500, and Mavic 000 costs 3 rubles.
According to the FPV, the proportion is most likely similar. And often it is quite sufficient for the bird-observer to have a thermal imager, which positions the target. And the attack birds can be ordinary.

Quote from alexoff

If you stick tape inside to keep flies away

The idea is interesting, but rather unrealistic. The fly tapes will stick together from the wind and passing vehicles.

Quote from alexoff

the unresolved and unsolvable question of counter-battery warfare

Even without taking into account the gross miscalculations of weapons planning, the counter-battery task is not fully solved in principle. Therefore, better passive protection of movement in the tunnel is very important. And the exits from the tunnel are deliberately fortified, engineered areas, so the probability of defeat in them is significantly reduced.

[alexoff]

According to open data, Mavic 3T costs about 500, and Mavic 000 costs 3 rubles.
According to the PDF, the proportion is most likely similar.

no, FPV costs 30-50 thousand, and with thermal imaging it's already under 300-400 thousand. Thermal imaging is an expensive pleasure, and in the dark a daytime drone can't see anything.

The idea is interesting, but rather unrealistic. The fly tapes will stick together from the wind and passing vehicles.

and even without glue the drone won't fly far

the counter-battery problem is not completely solved in principle.

It is quite solvable if it is solved, then the enemies will be able to either hit with expensive rare Western self-propelled guns or maneuver with mortars. This is not a systematic defense, that is, such an enemy will not withstand the roll. Similarly, the solution to the enemy air defense issues allows you to bomb the same enemy artillery with cast iron from a height of 7 km. But if you do not fight the air defense, do not organize units to clear the front section for the peaceful work of other troops - then yes, nothing will come of it. Unsuppressed artillery can similarly hit the entry and exit points of the tunnel five times a day.
Here one blogger wrote that the relations between Russia and Ukraine will be similar to the relations between Israel and Palestine, and now we are figuring out who will be who. Well, some of us may well want to be Palestinians, they are pitied, but Arafat's heirs fought over the billions of stolen money and the people could not say anything.

[sailor roman]

Methods of conducting military operations by making tunnels to the rear (fortified area) have been known since ancient times. Even Alexander the Great used this method in the 4th century BC. Hundreds of such actions are mentioned in the history of wars and tactics of enemy actions have been developed. In 1854-1855, underground BDs were widely used during the defense of Sevastopol. Dozens of underground passages have survived to this day.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

There are almost no arguments against it.

Once tunnel attacks become common, explosive wells and primitive geophones (a simple stethoscope will do) will make this an ineffective and dangerous endeavor.

In addition, the use of this tactic has a seasonal limitation, since in spring and autumn these tunnels will be filled with groundwater faster than they are laid, and here you cannot do without auxiliary equipment such as pumps for pumping out water and generators for their power. It will not be possible to carry such a pile of equipment without the attention of enemy reconnaissance, and therefore the very idea of ​​secrecy and surprise is reduced to zero.
Here, ordinary trenches stand in the water in the fall, and digging tunnels is not an option at all.

[Simple]

Let me digress a bit:
It was in Germany five or ten years ago (I don’t remember exactly).
The bandits ordered a tunnel to be dug from the house next to the bank (basically under the street) within a week.
At that time, the German press was still sneering that this tunnel was the only project in modern Germany that was completed ahead of schedule.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Simple

Let me digress a bit:
It was in Germany five or ten years ago (I don’t remember exactly).
The bandits ordered a tunnel to be dug from the house next to the bank (basically under the street) within a week.
At that time, the German press was still sneering that this tunnel was the only project in modern Germany that was completed ahead of schedule.

It was easier for them, they had storm drains working all along the street.

[Netl]

Quote: Nyrobsky

there were storm drains working all along the street

Water seepage is not such a critical problem. 3 degrees slope, a hole at the bottom and pumping out of it. And, of course, there will be restrictions on the terrain. If there is quicksand, then its passage can be too expensive. In such places it is not worth it.

But paradoxically, the greatest need for tunnels is precisely at high-rise buildings. Both in attack and defense. And there are much fewer difficulties with groundwater.

[mad-max78]

In Donbass, there is a very tense situation with groundwater. For example, in Donetsk, I have a 65-meter well that is dry, while my neighbors have water after 100 meters. The reason is in geology. Firstly, geographically, this is the Donetsk Ridge, which rises above sea level by more than 200 meters. For example, from Saur-Mogila, which is one of the highest points of the ridge, you can see the sea, and it is about 90 km away. The second is the large number of mines, whether they are active or exhausted, water is pumped out from both of them. Due to these factors, we also do not have such a thing as swamps. The soils are hard, mostly loam, sand is very rare. So, we can easily dig any passages underground without any particular fear of flooding or sudden collapse.

[Smoked]

Want an argument against? Well, firstly, there are various things like bombs and missiles that are structurally designed to go deep. Secondly, there are geoscanners that can show what is going on in the earth's crust. Found a tunnel, an exit from the tunnel? So send a drone and blow it to hell, burying the enemy personnel. Examples of how our guys used a certain tunnel are tactical luck, it just happened and they remembered it. Digging a gallery, well, that's something in the 21st century.

[Netl]

Quote: Smoked

Do you want an argument against?

Discussed in more detail above in the thread. Geoscanner is a multi-range radar, plus it must be close to the object of observation. Very vulnerable.

Quote: Smoked

So send a drone and blow it up

The drone won't even pass the exit net. The explosion won't cause any serious damage.
But even if we manage to cause a tunnel collapse somewhere, clearing it and restoring its operation is a matter of a few hours.

[ZloyCat]

"You want an argument against? Well, first of all, there are various things like bombs and missiles that are structurally designed to go deeper. Secondly"
as i understand it, the main argument for the tunnel is that the tag crawled to a country restaurant, which nobody gives a damn about, and the tag crawled through this sewer after it had stood in this place for a year, and it simply had nothing to do. just an attack? well no, we are veterans (tag, I mean), we'll think of something now. and they did. and now their voice Sladkov is screaming, we need to create tunnel troops, how did we fight without them before, I can't understand

[Piramidon]

Quote: Netl

The idea is to provide engineering troops with special equipment for the rapid construction of tunnels if such an opportunity arises.

So far only a pick and a shovel. The tunnel boring machine of the subway builders or miners will not work. They will detect it in a moment.

[Netl]

Quote: Piramidon

They'll spot you in a moment.

The arrow-type tunnel boring machine resembles an excavator in appearance, with a drilling head instead of a bucket. And since a large tunnel diameter is not needed here, the size of the machine can also be small.

But detection depends more on the order of use than on the size of the equipment. First, a hole is dug with a regular excavator with a bucket, and a cover is made over the hole from the available materials. From the point of view of enemy reconnaissance, this looks like a regular dugout. A combine harvester drives up there on a lowboy under an awning, which from that moment on is always underground. The only thing is that the soil still needs to be removed periodically, but KamAZ trucks with soil are also not uncommon during the construction of a fortification. And the soil can be used nearby for filling other fortifications.

And again, even if the enemy has learned about the existence of a tunnel, it is very difficult to prevent movement through it.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Miniature earthmoving equipment is needed first of all not for tunnels under the enemy, but for digging in forward units when the front has moved. I can imagine the amount of manual work to create an ordinary trench, not to mention a dugout with a log roll. And this is in the summer, on soft ground... And with such a massive use of UAVs, it is a problem to bring serious earthmoving equipment. I know that any tank can be attached to a bulldozer blade and the tank will dig itself in... if it has time and the enemy does not cover it.

[fif21]

Quote: Lemon

Do they ask Sladkova everywhere?

Sladkov is a correspondent, so let him cover the events. Yes, maybe he should also write articles on VO, we'll discuss it together here. Entering the enemy's rear is carried out in many other ways and the military must know them.

[ZloyCat]

"wassat Entry into the enemy's rear is carried out in many other ways and the military should know them. hi"
it turns out that our so-called military don't know them

[fif21]

Quote: ZloyKot

it turns out that our so-called military don't know them

They know, but are embarrassed to use it. The landing was only on Gostomel. A march, a throw into the enemy's rear in small groups, only in the movies. Brandenburg 800, that's only for the Germans...

[Piramidon]

Quote: fif21

Sladkov - correspondent

But he considers himself a great strategist.

[fif21]

Quote: Piramidon

But he considers himself a great strategist.

So he should come to us at VO! The best strategists are here!

[Piramidon]

Quote: fif21

Quote: Piramidon

But he considers himself a great strategist.

So he should come to us at VO! The best strategists are here!

No, he won't come here. He has access to the idiot box, from there he has more opportunities to advise the General Staff, but here there is no such opportunity. Gerasimov is unlikely to be registered with VO.

[Comrade Beria]

Sapper - from the word sapa. Sapa is a trench, a ditch covered with a rampart or towers for approaching a fortress or enemy field positions. A quiet sapa is a sapa dug secretly.

[Smoked]

Thanks for the reference, I know about sapper matters. All this was fine in the old days, but today no one will allow you to dig a trench at an angle to the enemy trenches. They will throw drones and artillery at you, everything is in plain sight.

[ZloyCat]

"and today no one will allow a trench to be pulled at an angle to the enemy's trenches"
why at an angle? you can do it straight

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Smoked

with linear tactics

Well, that was long before.
As soon as gunpowder appeared, the idea appeared to run under the wall and blow it up.
And before gunpowder, there was an idea to squeeze through a hole, poke everyone with spears and open the gates.
An ancient beautiful custom!

[2al]

For example, Hamas and Hezbollah have special tunnel units of special forces and engineers, since their underground networks and communications are extensive, and their infrastructure is classified. By the way, Hamas members have been quite visible in Syria, fighting on the side of the bangs, for example, they dug the dungeons of Eastern Ghouta and waged an underground mine war in Aleppo.

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

— Hamas should be invited as instructors, they have a lot of experience in this matter...

[Vladimir 290]

Captain Alatriste once again as a teaching aid

[rocket757]

To conduct successful bonus actions, all methods/ways are acceptable if they are effective and lead to victory.

[2al]

How can I say, for example, chemical warfare in WWI turned out to be so effective and accessible that all warring parties used it.

[rocket757]

Who is all this?
Please announce the entire list.

[2al]

Germany, Austria-Hungary, France, England, Russian Empire.
"Chemical weapons were used on a large scale by the Russian army in the summer of 1916 during the Brusilov breakthrough. 76-mm shells with choking (chloropicrin) and poisonous (phosgene, vensinite) chemical agents demonstrated their high effectiveness in suppressing enemy artillery batteries. The field inspector general of artillery telegraphed the head of the Main Artillery Directorate that during the May and June offensive of 1916, chemical 76-mm shells "rendered a great service to the army."
"During the years of fighting on the Western and Eastern fronts, both sides used a huge number of different toxic agents; about 125 thousand tons. About 40 different chemical compositions were developed and tested. The total losses from toxic substances are estimated at 1,3 million people."

[rocket757]

In general, it is a terrible weapon....like any other WMD.
It's good that we came to an agreement and banned its use.

[AAK]

Digging, like the Barmaleys in Syria and Palestine, "mine galleries" and underground passages in the LBS SVO is somehow effective only in low-mobility positional combat operations; it is much more important to use such trained units when storming large industrial and municipal facilities, like the same Mariupol "Azovstal" and the like, but in case of maneuverable actions - these are generally exclusively one-time operations

[Irek]

The miners will dig it out anyway, quietly and without advertising.

[ZIF122]

The North Koreans have a lot of experience in tunnel warfare, they were very successful in the Korean War! They have experienced specialists, we need to involve them!

[igorbrsv]

It seems to me that their specialists may no longer remember their experience, and they hardly used the equipment.

[ZloyCat]

"They have experienced specialists, we need to involve them!"
These specialists have been dead for 100 years already

[2al]

This is a fact, and they have special engineering units and equipment, including small tunneling shields, which were once seen at a parade. In Iran, they dig a lot and skillfully.

[Konnick]

During the Great Patriotic War, the 1199th Rifle Regiment of the 354th Division, on the Central Front, on the initiative and with the help of former Donetsk miners, dug a 130-meter-long tunnel under the German trenches from the ravine.

From the award to the platoon commander of the 257th separate army company, Senior Lieutenant Debolsky D.V.
"In the summer of 1943, the 354th Rifle Division occupied a defensive position on the Kursk Bulge in the center of its salient near the city of Sevsk. On July 5, 1943, the enemy launched an offensive at the base of the Kursk Bulge. In order to activate the defense and capture an important height near the village of Berezovets, the division command decided to conduct an operation with the forces of the 257th Separate Army Company. The division's sappers dug a tunnel 130 meters long, 2 meters wide and 1 meter 90 centimeters high. It ended right in front of the enemy's forward defense line.
On July 19, the tunnel in front of the enemy was blown up, and Senior Lieutenant Debolsky's platoon was the first to rush into the resulting breach. Using the element of surprise, Platoon Commander Debolsky led the platoon into the attack. The enemy's heavy machine gun crew was destroyed. Moving forward, he blew up a pillbox with an anti-tank grenade, in which there were 10 enemy soldiers and 1 officer. The height was taken. The enemy launched fierce counterattacks three times. Skillfully maneuvering fire and using weapons captured from the enemy, Senior Lieutenant Debolsky's platoon repelled all enemy counterattacks."
A separate company of machine gunners from the 1199th rifle regiment under the command of senior lieutenant Lunin took part in the attack; they followed the penal battalions.
https://waralbum.ru/37553/comment-page-2/#comments
This company included a platoon of snipers, the photo is quite well known

[solar]

The division's sappers dug a tunnel 130 meters long, 2 meters wide and 1 meter 90 centimeters high. It ended right in front of the enemy's forward defense line.

It is unclear where this text came from; it is not in Debolsky’s award document.
Commander of the 1st platoon of the 257th separate army free kick company of the 354th division, Senior Lieutenant D.V. Debolsky was awarded the Order of Alexander Nevsky (which is very unusual for a platoon commander of a penal company, especially since the nomination was for the Order of the Patriotic War, 1st degree).
https://podvignaroda.ru/?#id=17380564&tab=navDetailManAward
The dimensions are questionable - 2 meters wide, 1.90 high. Surely they weren't going to drive a car there?

[Konnick]

.

They weren't planning on driving there by car, were they?

The award was also on Lunina. At one time I downloaded the regiment's RWB from the Pamyat Naroda website, but now I am writing from my phone and do not have the opportunity to show the scans. The website has deteriorated significantly. Search engines even excavated this tunnel. It is wide because it was necessary to jump out with a large number of fighters

[solar]

Lunin was awarded the Order of the Red Star. This detail is not there either.
https://podvignaroda.ru/?#id=16777707&tab=navDetailManAward

[Konnick]

Tomorrow I will answer you with a scan from the combat log.

[solar]

There is a story from Debolsky himself about how it was and how he received a rare order.

I walked along the German full-profile trenches and could not go down into them. Two-thirds of them were filled with dead Germans and my penal soldiers. A terrible, sad sight. My heart still aches. We were unable to bury our guys humanely, they remained in those trenches. We repelled three German counterattacks and, having received the order, left Berezovets, blowing up the tunnel, taking only the wounded with us. For this battle, all the penal soldiers in the company were cleared of criminal convictions, and most were awarded orders and medals. And I received the rare Order of Alexander Nevsky. Personally by order of General Batov.

There is other evidence too.

At 14:20 on July 19, sappers detonated an explosion. Four meters from the enemy trench, the earth collapsed, forming a hole. The 257th penal company in gas masks walked through the tunnel, quickly jumped out of the hole and burst into the enemy trench, working with daggers and bayonets. The 1st platoon of Lieutenant D. V. Debolsky was ahead of the company. In the first minutes, crews of two machine guns were captured and a scout-observer was taken prisoner.
Following the army company, a reconnaissance platoon from the 1199th regiment came out through the tunnel and broke into the enemy's second trench along the communication line. Here, Senior Sergeant N. E. Veprentsev's squad captured a non-commissioned officer and killed up to ten soldiers. Then two platoons from the 420th separate reconnaissance company, led by the political officer, Lieutenant P. I. Ryazantsev, specially trained companies from the 1199th and 1203rd regiments, approached and, with the support of artillery and mortars, captured the commanding heights. Conditions were created for capturing the enemy's third trench. However, the enemy launched counterattacks. To avoid unnecessary losses, the division commander ordered the units to withdraw to their original positions and blow up the tunnel.

It is also known where the insertion about the tunnel into the real award sheet came from on the Internet.
"Knights of the Order of Alexander Nevsky of Moscow and the Moscow Region". Volume 1. Moscow: Alteks, 2000. – pp. 146-147;

[Konnick]

As promised, a description of the battle in the tunnel, detailed and with conclusions

[ZloyCat]

"As promised, a description of the battle in the tunnel, detailed and with conclusions"
Well, read it carefully. And keep in mind that these same lists were approved by the same Jews, from the headquarters of divisions and fronts. How could you not help your own person?

[ZloyCat]

"Lieutenant Debolsky D.V. was awarded the Order of Alexander Nevsky (which is very unusual for a platoon commander of a penal company,"
so he was a Jew, and now there are a lot of Jews who are re-evaluating the results of the war, it is quite possible that he was nominated for the Order of the Red Star, his feat did not amount to anything more.
and now it's been blown up to the level of Alexander Nevsky

[ZloyCat]

"This company included a platoon of snipers, the photo is quite well known"
this photo is not from there

[Konnick]

this photo is not from there

From there, this is a platoon of snipers of a separate company of machine gunners under the command of Lunin, 1199th rifle regiment. If you are interested, there is also a sniper Kasatkina, you can google it

[ZloyCat]

"about a platoon of snipers of a separate company of machine gunners"
there were some, they were all armed with PPSh machine guns, and there were no separate platoons of snipers in their composition. come up with something else

[Konnick]

In 42, all rifle regiments received separate companies of machine gunners, which included a platoon of snipers.

[ZloyCat]

"which included a platoon of snipers"
You can roughly count the number of snipers

[A17ttt]

the hint is generally understood.

a subway will be built.
where will be the first entry point and the final exit point?
where will the intermediate stops be?
is only one branch planned?

[Ales]

The exit is in Kyiv or in Zelensky's bunker.

[Ivan№One]

Sladkov can dig himself

[Uncle_Misha]

Of course it can, but first you need to quit smoking dried fly agarics. It seems he doesn't fully understand what it means to dig even a dozen meters underground, and under the watchful eye of the enemy. Let him calculate how many cubic meters of earth need to be removed and preferably removed from the work site, how much fastening material will be needed to attach the roof, and everything else. These Sladkovs are fantasists.

[ZloyCat]

"These Sladkovs are fantasists."
but Putin accepts him, like a specialist

[Uncle_Misha]

Putin is our everything and that says it all! A multifaceted personality, a pilot, a taxi driver, a lumberjack, a spy, if he accepts Sladkov, then he is a science fiction writer. The reporter apparently heard something about the US tunnel rats, but did not understand and suggested digging tunnels, and the Americans fought in ready-made ones, dug by the Vietnamese before them.

[Medvedev_Dmitry]

Maybe UAV battalions would be better... As the enemy did. With their own staff structure.

[Ross xnumx]

On the subject:
A robot has appeared that digs tunnels 100 times faster and 98% cheaper
https://hightech.fm/2022/07/20/super-cheap-tunnel-tech

[Andy_nsk]

Regarding this robot - it's obvious nonsense. Temperature of 27000 degrees - fucking hell, on the Sun it's only 6000 degrees, and not even the most heat-resistant steel can withstand even 3000 degrees. What do plasma torches and power consumption of 40 MW have to do with it? Are we going to build a power plant nearby? Looks like a joke.

[alexoff]

Judging by the news, this startup hasn't produced anything, except for a murky video of some plate being melted with a torch. Apparently, melting tunnels with plasma arc welding is not that easy and cheap. Seriously, they want to VAPORIZATE cubic meters of earth with electricity (where are these vapors supposed to go?) and can this be practical? Why not burn it with a laser?

[Mapping]

When it comes to giving advice and moralizing, Sladkov is the first. He would take a shovel and dig tunnels for our soldiers. A fucking specialist.

[Hiller]

Nothing new. New is well forgotten old. Surely you have heard the phraseological unit "quietly sap" - on the sly, secretly, unnoticed, stealthily. It comes from the military term "sapa". This was the name for an undermining or ditch to the enemy's position, which was made secretly, quietly and unnoticed, usually during a siege of a fortress to undermine its walls. Saps were used in the 16th-19th centuries. The word "sapa" is rarely used in modern Russian, unlike its derivative, the word "sapper" (in French sapeur - from sape "trench, trench"). This is what they began to call military engineers in the 17th century who conducted saps, i.e. dug underminings. Their work often ended with laying a barrel of gunpowder and detonating it under the wall of an enemy fortification. Standard work of an engineering and sapper unit in modern conditions.

[lisikat2]

"Create a battalion of Moles" detailed units were known even under Peter I, remember, the storming of Azov"??
Maybe someone read "Port Arthur"? There, the actions of such "Moles" are described

[Ulum]

Sladkov should be shoved in there with a shovel. Let him dig instead of talking nonsense. Has he had too much to drink again?

[Comrade Beria]

Sladkov is not original in his fantasies. Thus, back in 1904, Russian engineer Pyotr Rasskazov sent a material to a British technical journal in which he described the possibility of developing a special capsule that could cover long distances by moving underground. However, later, during unrest in Moscow, he was killed by a stray bullet. In addition to Rasskazov, the idea of ​​creating an underground boat is also attributed to another of our compatriots, Yevgeny Tolkalinsky. Being an engineer-colonel in the tsarist army, in the winter of 1918 he fled the country across the Gulf of Finland. He made a career in Sweden, where at one of the companies he improved the already mentioned tunneling shield.

The photo shows the first underground boat near Mount Blagodat.

The machine was built in the Urals in 1946. It was the world's first machine for "underground navigation".

There were also projects for nuclear underground vehicles.

[Aag]

Quote: Netl

Quote: Lemon

he's pestering me with his moralizing

What does Sdadkov and moralizing have to do with this? Surely it is possible to discuss the idea itself without resorting to personal attacks?

The idea is to provide engineering troops with special equipment for the rapid laying of tunnels if such an opportunity exists. There have been precedents of successful combat use of tunnels in various wars. There are almost no arguments against it.

Haven't heard anything about anti-undermining sensors?
The BSP RP RVSN have been equipped with similar...
IMHO: "mole" tactics - from the failure to equip troops with UAVs, modern communications, reconnaissance equipment...

[alexoff]

"mole" tactics - from the failure to equip troops with UAVs, modern communications, reconnaissance equipment...

rather from failure in electronic warfare, air defense, KAZ and sufficiently armored vehicles. In some armored KamAZ with a king-barbecue everything would have been delivered, but on a motorized truck or a tarpaulin Ural or even more so a loaf - it is very dangerous

[Aag]

And this, of course, too.

[2al]

TOW-2A ATGM armor penetration ~850mm (900) behind DZ. Although it is possible that the Arena KAZ can cope with it.

[alexoff]

This ATGM is almost never seen in combat. Although ATGMs have almost never been seen in the last year, drones are a hundred times cheaper and more complex

[2al]

Are you considering fighting in urban underground communications, fighting in the metro (Kharkov, Kyiv)? Without special training, including weapons, it is very difficult to fight in such conditions.

[Aag]

- No. I haven't considered it. (This is regarding the first sentence of your comment). And here's why:
- firstly, IMHO, we are still a long way from that;
secondly, - to storm, if possible, - is not worth it - to surround, block.
I have no objections to the second proposal.

[Normann]

It's PR, because we need more money, and at least some of it is for me...

[Vadim S]

And if you remember Vietnam, how many problems the holes and underground bases of the good guys caused there! And they didn't have any earthmoving equipment. And here our smart guys don't need anything, everything is wrong and not right. That's why there is no end in sight for three years now

[Vladimir_D]

Combat moles are a new type of troops. Their effectiveness lies in rapid or covert movement underground. The advantage of this type of troops, according to Sladkov, is an unnoticeable approach to enemy positions and a sharp rise from under the thoooool of earth and the destruction of the shocked enemy, possibly dragging him into the ground and returning him to the positions of the Russian unit as a prisoner. I remember once seeing Sladkov drunk on a plane, apparently he took a swig for courage. He recently wrote such a chic obituary on the occasion of the "death" of Alexander Poddubny.

[Ales]

We have combat swimmers and these units have existed and trained for more than half a century. Only NATO cables are operational, and the Northern Streams have been destroyed. And what's the point now, to form something new from moles? It's better to create a supertank for one-off operations. And we have an immeasurable amount of super ammunition, from 3000 kg to megatons, and who uses it so that there is an effect, to put an end to the war, an end to Victory.

[ZloyCat]

"I remember once I saw Sladkov drunk on a plane, he must have had a drink for courage. He recently wrote such a chic obituary on the occasion of the "death" of Alexander Poddubny."
Come on, guys, why are you so hard on Sladkov? The guy makes money on fresh news, and money, as we know, doesn't smell.

[Radius]

The most strategic strategist, damn it... Make films, make interesting reports. Don't meddle in other people's kitchen!

[Labrador]

Quote: Lemon

Sladkova is asked everywhere? He's pestering everyone with his moralizing. What a know-how he came up with.)))

Quote: Lemon

Sladkova is asked everywhere? He's pestering everyone with his moralizing. What a know-how he came up with.)))

I also thought: let him buy a shovel and dig. Maybe there will be less time for writing nonsense. Otherwise, there are only generals and marshals around: one from the bathhouse, another from a binge, etc.

[dweira63]

Did you order "Battalion of Combat Moles"?

[Viktor Grishchenko]

Special-purpose earthmoving equipment will come in handy in any case; you can even make a tunnel under the river

[Humpty]

Somewhere it is appropriate, for sure. But Sladkov seemed to have looked into an empty glass tunnel.
Working equipment underground is clearly audible. It can be found with ground penetrating radar in no time. Groundwater probably doesn't interfere much in Syria.

[2al]

It all depends on the soil and the depth of the tunnel, and a ground penetrating radar that takes 8 m of medium-density soil has a price tag of $20. For the same Israeli tunnel special forces, there are a lot of problems with detection, since Hamas digs them using materials that reduce the visibility of the ground penetrating radar.

[Humpty]

I have never worked with such a cheap ground penetrating radar.
And of course, something depends on the fastening.
I don’t consider myself to be who knows who, but I worked underground.
Worked on the ground and on ice with a ground penetrating radar, it cost something like 170000 dollars. Participated in an event where a completely different ground penetrating radar was used from a helicopter. What they were looking for was quickly found with its help. Under a landslide on a rock dump, mainly consisting of shale, at a depth of 9-10 meters.

[Victor Alien]

There are horizontal drilling rigs up to 1,5 meters for laying pipes under roads or railway embankments. Metro construction and miners have had all the equipment for a long time - they just need to agree and learn how to use it for engineering troops. As usual, it is impossible to agree on everything.

[Yuri L]

A promising war is looming. As in the 16th century engraving about the wars of the 2nd century BC, according to the works of a certain Polybius. We are on the right path...

[NakedMan]

To get from your rear to the enemy's rear, you need to dig not a hundred meters, but kilometers. And they will dig accordingly for months. Yes, there were cases when old tunnels and communications were used and quietly cleared. But digging new ones in all places of the front unnoticed by the enemy is a practically impossible task, no matter what troops you create.

[SEVERIN]

I don’t know if it makes sense to create tunnel troops, but it probably makes sense to have units on the scale of special forces, and we need to think about it.

[Olga Taschilina]

A very sensible proposal! Two well-fortified cities were taken by the method of undermining. It would be foolish to forget about such luck and not develop it further.

[ZloyCat]

"Two well-fortified cities were taken by means of undermining."
Which ones are these, can you remind me?

[2al]

As an option - equip the landing force with jetpacks. Then there will be less digging to do. )))