The enemy stated that the Russian Armed Forces have begun to use “unknown jet drones,” on which the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces are wasting expensive anti-aircraft missiles

The enemy publishes footage of a Ukrainian air defense system shot down drone, which was used in one of the recent combined attacks. At the same time, the Ukrainian military The agency states that the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces “shot down an unknown Russian drone, which is distinguished by the fact that it is jet-powered.”

From the report:

У drone There is no warhead. It also lacks optics and any other reconnaissance equipment.

It is reported that the drone was shot down by an anti-aircraft guided missile. At the same time, the enemy suggests that such unmanned aerial vehicles were used by the Russian Armed Forces to overload the Ukrainian air defense. And in fact, the Ukrainian Armed Forces command, by stating that an expensive anti-aircraft missile had to be spent on the drone, admits the fact of overloading the air defense system with such jet UAVs. At the same time, the problem for the enemy is that it may well be the same jet drones that already have a payload. And it is almost impossible to identify them among dozens of their "brothers".

At the moment, the Russian Armed Forces are conducting a new wave of attacks on frontline and rear facilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. In particular, strikes have been carried out on the enemy in the Sumy and Kharkiv regions. Targets in the form of military vehicles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces transporting personnel closer to the front line have been hit. Air raid sirens have been declared in a number of regions controlled by the Kyiv regime, including Poltava region.

Comments

[opposite28]

From the report:



The drone has no warhead. It also lacks optics and any other reconnaissance equipment.

A typical UFO, it's strange that the alien wasn't found, apparently he ejected in time. Like those that are now being caught all over Ukraine and delivered to the TCC...

[ALCA056000]

How is it that there is no combat unit? Their combat units are farm anti-aircraft missiles, which they use to hit their own.

[opposite28]

How is it that there is no combat unit? Their combat units are farm anti-aircraft missiles, which they use to hit their own.

And after the rocket launches, they leave through the vegetable gardens, trampling the beds along the way!

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Well, about a year ago on this forum, I made a proposal to launch cheap dummy drones ahead of normal cruise missiles or aircraft, specifically to react to enemy air defenses with expensive missiles and actually detect their deployment locations.
But then he suggested that such tricks have long been used by both sides, and first of all by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, with their shortage of cruise missiles. A sword always has two ends and we also spend money on such dummies and mock-ups on the ground.

[Octillion]

They also have standard MALD decoy missiles. We don't have anything like that.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

We don't have anything similar.

I wouldn't be so categorical... maybe there is, but we don't know about it. I read about these MALDs and the like. It's not just a cheap dummy, but a pretty decent thing with electronic warfare on board to jam radars. And since it's disposable, together with the engine it costs a pretty penetrating amount. Of course, these are needed for a specific breakthrough of air defense at the target, so that real missiles have a better chance of hitting the target.
I was leaning (a year ago) towards launching the simplest dummy imitators, without expensive and complex filling. As long as they reach the target and cause the expenditure of expensive air defense systems. The maximum that should be put into such a dummy is a mechanism for cyclical rotation of the rudders back and forth, so that it does not fly in a straight line and it would be more difficult to shoot it down from a normal
small arms. That is, just to terrify the enemy's air defense. Here, even the dummy "Geran-2" made of plywood will do, let alone one real one, a couple with lighters are flying nearby.

[opposite28]

Well, about a year ago on this forum, I made a proposal to launch cheap dummy drones ahead of normal cruise missiles or aircraft, specifically to react to enemy air defenses with expensive missiles and actually detect their deployment locations.
But then he suggested that such tricks have long been used by both sides, and first of all by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, with their shortage of cruise missiles. A sword always has two ends and we also spend money on such dummies and mock-ups on the ground.

By the way, representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine also visit the forum, so be careful with the proposals that may be heard.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Semyon, are you joking or serious? I believe the Ukrainians are one step ahead of us in this matter, with various dummies and dummy weapons. They simply have nowhere to go with Russia's superiority in air and airborne weapons. And therefore, various models of equipment on the ground and the mass use of drones, the simplest ones, are a forced measure in defense. And here, perhaps, everything is the other way around, we have something to spy on the enemy and adopt for ourselves.

[opposite28]

Semyon, are you joking or serious? I believe the Ukrainians are one step ahead of us in this matter, with various dummies and dummy weapons. They simply have nowhere to go with Russia's superiority in air and airborne weapons. And therefore, various models of equipment on the ground and the mass use of drones, the simplest ones, are a forced measure in defense. And here, perhaps, everything is the other way around, we have something to spy on the enemy and adopt for ourselves.

I'll tell you even more, namely, what is the difference between a dummy drone, as you put it a little higher, and an ordinary refugee on the territory of the Russian Federation?! Unless it has a technical passport. But otherwise, you correctly noted some so-called points.

[Sobol]

Quote: oppozite28

Typical UFO,

A typical air conditioner, it's a pity it didn't reach its goal. And on the topic, other countries are playing around with jet drones, in full growth - it would be a sin for our engineers not to try. God willing, the system will be successful.

[opposite28]

A typical air conditioner, it's a pity it didn't reach its goal. And on the topic, other countries are playing around with jet drones, in full growth - it would be a sin for our engineers not to try. God willing, the system will be successful.

If only the system with "air conditioners" were controlled, otherwise such things will happen that the team will stop using cooling devices, switching to the good old fan at best. If only no one gets a draft in one place, among other things.

[Vasia]

Quote: SoboL

A typical air conditioner, it's a pity it didn't reach its goal.

Well, if they shot it down, it means it got there. And what other target could a drone have without a warhead and reconnaissance equipment? The article says it all.

[Yuri L]

It looks very much like a modification of Italmas with the same engine that is installed on Geranium-3. And so, more jet drones, good and different...

[neworange88]

It doesn't look like Italmass. It's a new drone decoy, imitating a jet Geranium-3.

MOSCOW, January 18. /TASS/. Russian specialists are completing a series of flight tests of a budget analogue of the Geran kamikaze jet drone; work on the Yastreb project is planned to be completed in the first half of 2024. This was reported to TASS by the design bureau.

"The jet analogue of the small Geranium is called the Hawk, the product is currently under development. It is a coordinate-guided flying wing that can hit targets at a distance of up to 350 km. We are completing the cycle of flight tests of the prototype, then we will slightly redesign the larger model and begin its flight tests. We plan to move to the stage of the finished product in the first half of this year. Among other things, the Yastreb will be used as a pseudo-cruise missile - a false target to distract enemy air defense systems," - the organization stated.

The flight speed of a drone with an internal combustion engine will be 300 km/h, the flight speed with a jet engine - 700 km/h. The flight range is up to 350 km.

Quote from the article.

The drone has no warhead. It also lacks optics and any other reconnaissance equipment.

The drone was reportedly shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

[neworange88]

The Russian military has begun using plywood Geranium drones to target missiles, Reuters reported on Wednesday, July 31. The inexpensive drones, which cost no more than $10, can spot both mobile and stationary air defense groups.
According to journalists, sometimes groups of flying Geraniums consist of so-called "decoys". Visually, they look like ordinary kamikaze drones, but are made of foam plastic and plywood, do not have a warhead or are equipped with a minimal amount of explosives, and also use thin tin sheets to create reflective surfaces. From the ground, it is impossible to distinguish such a kamikaze drone from an ordinary one.

The plywood drones are equipped with SIM cards from one of the enemy's communications operators. These devices monitor both stationary and mobile air defense groups. All information received is transmitted to Russian operators in real time, which allows them to adjust the course of flying missiles or change targets for other drones.

Plywood drones can stay in the air for a long time at an altitude of up to 1000 meters, remaining out of reach of automatic weapons and machine guns. Such UAVs create significant problems for air defense systems, forcing them to change positions and waste expensive missiles on inexpensive decoys.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Yuri L

It looks very much like a modification of Italmas with the same engine that is installed on Geranium-3. And so, more jet drones, good and different...

They wrote about "Geranium-2", but I haven't heard anything about "Geranium-3".

[neworange88]

In the photo, this is the jet Geranium-3. Geranium-2 was called "moped" because of the characteristic sound, it does not have a jet engine.

[c real]

The measure is quite obvious. It's a pity that this was only taken care of now, and not 10 years ago, for example.

[ALCA056000]

Only local armchair strategists can always take care of everything (10 years ago) in time. "Look back" at your life, there is nothing there like "and how come I didn't do this before"?

[c real]

I would understand if revolutionary changes had occurred in 10 years, but no. At that time, there were already aircraft-type UAVs (strike and reconnaissance), there was the necessary element base with hieroglyphs for 3 rubles per bucket. The concept of air defense overload generally appeared in the 50s of the last century.

[igorbrsv]

However, revolutionary changes have taken place in the strategy of military operations.

[c real]

And how did these changes affect this particular case?

[igorbrsv]

FPV drones began to be used as kamikaze. Entire lines of drones appeared for different tasks. Civilian and agricultural drones began to be adapted for "drops", reconnaissance, and repeaters. The tactics of combat groups have changed, as well as their composition and numbers. It is dangerous to move both during the day and at night. Capes have appeared to protect against heat. Tanks, like artillery, now operate from closed positions, artillery is dispersed and no longer poses in open areas. Assault tactics have changed. Now each group is led by several observer drones, and the group can now even be on motorcycles.
None of this could have been imagined 10 years ago. Only in science fiction films

[c real]

This all concerns the LBS (20 km in both directions), but does not affect the situation in the deep rear. And most importantly - does not cancel the need for these means (LC) both then and now.

[igorbrsv]

Bayraktars are an example. They didn't justify themselves. But Geranis showed themselves well. But then the trend was towards heavy attack UAVs. Our Orions had just started flying. And if our air defense interfered with Bayraktars, then their electronic warfare interfered with Orions.

[c real]

Was it only the electronic warfare that was interfering with the Orions? The air defense saw them no worse than the Bayraktars. But who decided that they could be used without first opening and reloading?

[dimon642]

The base in Syria was shelled with simple drones, and this was five years before the start of the Second World War.

[igorbrsv]

In Brazil, bandits also eliminated competitors with copters and airdrops. But creating a drone for purely military purposes, which will also pass the acceptance test, is another matter. This is not a civilian one, there is TNT under the belly. Plus the reorganization of troops and tactics taking into account the introduction of new units. There is still confusion in interaction - it is not known whose drone is circling. Either it is time to run and shoot back, or it is one of our own

[dimon642]

Military acceptance, how much bob can be cut down.

[ALCA056000]

Well, if we're going to talk like that, then "let's put the question bluntly." And tell us, C-Real, what needs to be prepared for a war that (hypothetically) will begin in 10 years, what types of weapons need to be prepared now? Show off your foresight, military talent, and vision of the "obvious"!

[c real]

I've been working on this for over 3 years now...
The ADM-160 has already been mentioned here, which has been used by the enemy since early 2023. It was developed at the end of the XNUMXth century. You don't even have to be far-sighted, it was enough to just copy it.

[Octillion]

And before the ADM-160, there was the ADM-141, which was used in the Gulf War.

[ALCA056000]

Blah blah blah? The question is specific - "...what types of weapons need to be prepared now..."

[c real]

Quadcopters with a neural network that independently dock with the automatic loader to change the battery and collect ammunition. The neural network finds targets independently or receives them from an external source, calculates the optimal moment of dropping from heights of 100-200 m. To protect the machine from weapons, it is placed in a large building with spaced entry and exit points for quadcopters or on a mobile platform.

[ALCA056000]

Well well... have you read too much fantasy and do you think the local people are hamsters?

[c real]

All the necessary technologies for this already exist, for example mobile processors with tensor cores. In 10 years, at the current rate, this concept will be obsolete.

[Napayz]

The enemy stated that the Russian Armed Forces have begun to use “unknown jet drones,” on which the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces are wasting expensive anti-aircraft missiles

Well, then knock them down with stones or jars of cucumbers.

[Non-fighter]

Excuse me, where is the saving on our part? The engine is the same, the airframe is the same, does the warhead really cost as much as several drones?

[Michael]

Quote: Not the fighter

Excuse me, where is the saving on our part? The engine is the same, the airframe is the same, does the warhead really cost as much as several drones?

Together with the guidance systems, probably yes.

[Clear]

Quote: Michael

Quote: Not the fighter

Excuse me, where is the saving on our part? The engine is the same, the airframe is the same, does the warhead really cost as much as several drones?

Together with the guidance systems, probably yes.

A logical remark, but one drone, which the VSUS presents, is not yet an indicator. It may be a defect, maybe something else...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Clear

It could be a marriage, it could be something else...

Could it be that the "bad guys" were so drunk that they forgot to put the "stuffing" into the drone? No warhead, no guidance system.

[Clear]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Clear

It could be a marriage, it could be something else...

Could it be that the "bad guys" were so drunk that they forgot to put the "stuffing" into the drone? No warhead, no guidance system.

Why do you always make sarcasms, Styopa, instead of a calm professional post? Like a market woman.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Clear

Like a market woman.

And you, girl, are being rude. It's worse than being sarcastic.

[Clear]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Clear

Like a market woman.

And you, girl, are being rude. It's worse than being sarcastic.

What is rude, my dear? Read your posts and go to the market. You can take Mikhan with you for support, as at the beginning of your appearance on the site.

[igorbrsv]

. The engine is the same, the airframe is the same, does the warhead really cost as much as several drones?

maybe the engine is different, since there is no payload
Although for a million... Why plywood? Aluminum will not affect the cost much. Perhaps there is a shortage of non-ferrous metals?

[Michael]

Quote: igorbrsv

.Aluminum will not affect the cost much. Perhaps there is a shortage of non-ferrous metals?

There are a lot of non-ferrous metals on Earth. The same aluminum - only more electricity and you can extract it right from the clay under your feet))).
With copper it is more complicated, although deep, deep under the Ural Range sits the Mistress of the Copper Mountain.
It's about the same with rare earths.
Well, there is so much gold dissolved in the World Ocean that it is simply unclear why it should be hidden in deep storage facilities under constant guard.

[Sensor]

I assume that cheap electronics are used for the trick.
The false target was given a direction and altitude for it, all the inertial electronics and controls will cost about 3 R. While for a combat drone you need something like ADIS000-16477BMLZ, a precision miniature IMU unit (3-axis gyroscope and accelerometer) costs 3 R (Chip and dip. I like the search there and I don’t need to specify the price, but it’s a pretty expensive store), not counting the equipment for communication and surveillance.

[igorbrsv]

The store is really expensive. But it is convenient and there are representative offices at least in regional centers. I often see ads with similar devices. Sometimes you can find them much cheaper. But at the supply enterprises, hardly anyone bothers with this. They will allocate money anyway. Probably, there are only differences in the filling.

[Michael]

that such unmanned aerial vehicles were used by the Russian Armed Forces to overload the Ukrainian air defense.

Well, this is just a classic example of a massive "disarming" missile strike - 100500 million false targets overload the missile defense system, while tens of thousands with warheads fly and are not shot down.
When I was a child, I watched cartoons about Reagan's SDI on TV and read about it.

[sdivt]

The main thing is that there are more of them
Even in a 1:1 ratio to combat ones - it's already good
There is not a single air defense system in the world that cannot be overloaded)

[Comrade Kim]

Quote: oppozite28

A typical UFO, it’s strange that the alien wasn’t found, apparently he ejected in time.

Exactly!
Let the sick minds rack their brains trying to figure out which system it came from))

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Again "blame and curse the Muscovites"!) Oh, this underdeveloped farmstead... (((

[Revolver]

Well, at least half a kilo of explosives needs to be loaded, it won't significantly reduce the flight characteristics, and it won't raise the price much either. And the anti-aircraft gunners will know that this half a kilo can fly to them, so there won't be any questions "to shoot down or not to shoot down?"

[Argon]

Well, if they are skipped, then $10k was wasted. Wouldn't it be better to use them? I think it's not enough, but they need to be charged. Although managers know better.

[Tochilka]

The Povitryanykhs have been short of anti-aircraft missiles since almost March (there were some notes on VO), and they are still “overloading” the system with false targets?

[SEVERIN]

"- it's their skinny devils who are stirring up the water in the pond,
- Churchill came up with all this in 18..."
- They slipped the VSU a doll and they smoked! - funny!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The drone has no warhead. It also lacks optics and any other reconnaissance equipment.

OOOO, we have reached the concept of MALD. Bravo!

[Stardock]

The emergence of such specialized drones obviously indicates an increase in drone production in general.
The answer will be an increase in the number of air defense systems.
The military actions are escalating. The war is becoming more expensive with each passing day.

[evgen1221]

Yes, no, then the fifth points of the heels are blown into the stratosphere from victories and the air defense can't cope

[antikilller55]

Progress does not stand still, this is good. We have made something new and are successfully using it, this is also very good. The enemy confirms this, which means we are doing everything right.

[Vladimir M.V.]

You have not been active as a commentator for a long time (write comments). Voting is prohibited.

[Rage66]

The expression "shoot sparrows with a cannon" has become relevant again

[Sancho_SP]

We come to obvious things years later. Hmm.

[Clone]

What a delight... Complain to the grandfather of both Americas...

[iommy]

What a waste, they could have at least shoved in an 82mm mine or something incendiary

[State]

Any car factory will happily stamp out 500 FAU-1 per shift, the military can equip them. 500 kg of ammunition per hour at a speed of 700 km/h is not naughty geraniums.

[storm]

The Ministry of Defense should have hundreds of Strizh and Reis jet drones in its reserves; why not shoot them down to overload the enemy’s air defenses? They are practically useless as reconnaissance UAVs anyway.

[Bayun]

The best anti-drone = DRONE.

UAVs will go the whole way of the submarines plus introduce "swarm tactics" and submarine-UAV interaction. Airships will also find their application, on which this swarm of UAVs will hang in "passive", like a hornet's nest and will be activated only when the targets approach.

I wouldn’t be surprised if reconnaissance drones, attack aircraft, and fighters are used to protect equipment and even individual soldiers.

PS: And yes, some kind of "friend or foe" was needed the day before yesterday.

[Grigory T]

Let's work, brothers, God is with us!