Su-34: time to wait for an American copy

266
Su-34: time to wait for an American copy

Something terrible happened - the Americans began to think. No, no one says in the style of the late Zadornov that “everyone is stupid”, but we are now talking about aviation, but there they have done such things over the last quarter of a century that there is something to be amazed about. Mainly from the amount of wasted billions of dollars. But let’s not be jealous, and let’s talk about something completely different.

The upcoming universalization of aircraft in general is something completely different.



If you look back in history, then the entire history of aviation is a path to a universal aircraft. We will not take the truly universal airplanes of the First World War the war, which were fighters, reconnaissance aircraft, and bombers. And only in the second phase did dedicated bombers begin to appear.

The Second World War generally scattered aircraft into more than two dozen classes: day fighters, night fighters, single-engine, twin-engine, carrier-based fighters. Short-range, long-range, dive bombers, torpedo bombers, and so on. In general, human fantasy in terms of destroying neighbors and especially distant ones in this regard is simply a masterpiece.


The emergence of jet aviation followed approximately the same canons: fighters, bombers, attack aircraft, interceptors, reconnaissance aircraft, carrier-based aircraft. The doctrine, which clearly separated aircraft for air combat and aircraft for bombing, was effective before the advent of missile weapons. Especially the managed one.

Here it turned out that the plane, which yesterday was considered a pure fighter, could easily hit a missile at a ground and surface target. No, as such, the class of fighter-bombers appeared during the Second World War, the same P-47D Thunderbolts calmly carried two 454-kg bombs under the wings, and after being dropped they could continue to carry out the combat mission with the help of heavy machine guns. The opponent from the Reich, the Fw.190D, carried less (one 500-kg bomb), but was also quite a difficult target.


However, when in the 60s, guided missiles were firmly established on airplanes, it became clear that the existing classification was not as accurate as it could be, but no one attached much importance to this, there was no time for that. The planes moved from war to war amid the most spectacular confrontation of the Cold War. But after it ended, the most interesting thing began.

In Europe, the military was the first to understand that the existing doctrine was completely outdated, and it was time to change something. Great Britain later, but France and Germany began work in this direction earlier. The British also eventually abandoned their Vulcan and Canberra bombers in favor of multi-role aircraft, and, together with other countries, switched to universal attack vehicles. Eurofighter Typhoon and Panavia Tornado have long become symbols of versatility in the air forces of these two countries, not the least in terms of aviation.


The French experimented longer, but in the end, the universal Dassault Rafale completely won.


In principle, there are two countries left in the world with a large number of aircraft classes: Russia and the USA. China could also be on this list, but it followed a somewhat different path, which we will talk about below.

Let's start with Russia, where they inherited a huge number of aircraft from the Soviet Union.

On the one hand, there were a lot of aircraft of different classes, on the other hand, what to do with them?



Pure fighters, primarily the Su-27, are living their last days. Despite the fact that the fighter has been in use since 1985, it has not received widespread use in the world, and it has frankly little combat merit. The Georgian-Abkhaz conflict, the Ethiopian-Eritrean war and the Russian-Ukrainian war - that’s, in fact, all.

And the Su-27 is not an isolated case, if anything. An example from that side is the Mirage 2000C, a single-seat fighter-interceptor. A good aircraft, but the frankly meager armament, consisting of Matra Super 530/540 air-to-air missiles, did not arouse much interest in it. And it appeared even earlier than the Su-27, by three years.


But when the bugs were corrected and the Mirage 2000D and its export version Mirage 2000E appeared, things started to improve. They just added Matra BGL laser-guided bombs, Matra Beluga cluster bombs, Aerospatiale AS30L guided missiles, Matra ARMAT anti-radar missiles and Aerospatiale AM39 Exocet anti-ship guided missiles to the range of weapons, and the list of clients immediately began to grow .

But the pure Su-27 was not so lucky, and it never became an object of mass sales. But its descendant, the Su-30, became a hit precisely because of its versatility. Moreover, in countries such as India and China, the Su-30 is the backbone of the Air Force. Yes, China has its own developments, but India has the best it has at the moment.

Another victim of narrow specialization is the MiG-31. An interceptor that had nothing to intercept. The times of spy planes and high-altitude balloons filled with equipment have irrevocably sunk into history along with the Cold War, and the MiG-31 really remained out of work. It was even sent to reserve for a while, for which nothing good awaited, but it was possible to give the plane a chance to serve some more. As a Kinzhal missile carrier and control aircraft.


Everything is clear with the Kinzhal, but the control aircraft was a very promising idea for the Arctic. The MiG-31, with its simply amazing radar and communications systems, was planned to be used as an airborne tactical command post that would monitor airspace and coordinate the work of air defense, aerospace forces and the Navy. Five MiG-31s ​​hovering in the air at the same time would be enough to completely cover the entire Russian northern border from the Kola Peninsula to the Bering Strait.


The MiG-31 was lucky in terms of retirement. It will clearly last longer than the Su-27 and MiG-29, whose service life has essentially ended.

In bomber aviation, things will be arranged in much the same way. For almost the entire 30 years since the end of the Cold War, strategic aviation stood idle, indicating its presence with rare patrols. In general, it’s logical: flights of strategic aircraft are very expensive, and our budget is such a big deal...

That’s why Tu-22Ms took part in the operation to force Georgia to peace, but they stopped using them after the first loss. In Syria and the Northern Military District, the Tu-22M was used literally several times, very sporadically.

As for the Tu-95 and Tu-160, these are even more expensive aircraft that use even more expensive weapons. Therefore, having tested the Kh-55, Kh-555 and Kh-101 missiles in Syria in 2015 and 2016, during the SVO strategic aviation carried out strikes on Ukrainian territory several times from its airspace at the initial stage of the operation.

That is, a long-range/strategic bomber is only a way to deliver missiles (we quickly forget about bombs forever) closer to the launch area, and nothing more. Fortunately, the size of the country allows this to be done exactly this way, from a safe distance, without entering the air defense coverage area of ​​the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Strategic bombers will act in approximately the same way in any other military conflict: take off, approach to a safe distance, launch.

Here geopolitics played an ominous role with aircraft in European countries. Indeed, why does Great Britain need Vulcans and Canberras if there is no need to fly far away to enemy territory? It is clear that in theory the enemy is Russia, but to strike us there is absolutely no need to take off nuclear-powered superbombers weapons. A Typhoon capable of carrying Taurus, Storm Shadow, Brimstone, Scalp-EG, landing at an airfield in Poland, Slovakia or Lithuania, will be more than enough to launch a missile with a special warhead.

But all that remains for the Russian bomber is to fly either over the expanses of the Arctic or the Pacific Ocean. Where the same planes from NATO airfields cannot intercept it. Considering that the number of member countries of the bloc is increasing every year, with the entry of Finland and Sweden the northern direction will become even more complicated.


We won’t talk about the Su-24 and Su-25 here at all; these are completely outdated and irrelevant aircraft, practically incapable of fully performing modern combat missions. To be fair, we note that the Americans with their A-10 have about the same problems as we have with the Su-25. And “Warthog” will also go down in history.

What about new products?


It's okay. Despite the fact that the Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 are still the same Su-27, but in a new form, modified and redesigned for new tasks and doctrines. And although the Su-30 and Su-35 are more fighters than bombers (despite the fact that the Su-35 in the first months of the Northern Military District simply brilliantly established itself as a fighter against radars of all types and types), and the Su-34 is closer to a bomber than a fighter, these are still truly multifunctional aircraft capable of solving a very wide range of combat missions.

What's it like overseas?


Exactly the same as ours, only worse. Somehow it turned out that the Americans were less flexible and did not fully correctly perceive this change in doctrine. And therefore, not only do they have a rich heritage in the form of specialized bombers B-1 Lancer, B-2 Spirit, B-52 Stratofortress, but they are also working hard on the B-21 Raider.


Of course, America, as a continent, is located at a considerable distance from the places where it will be necessary to project a strong force in the future, so strategic aviation is not written off there. So billions are pouring in generously where designers are working on methods for projecting force.

They also have specialized fighters that are now commonly called "air superiority fighters" such as the F-22 and F-15. Note that these aircraft have some multi-role capabilities, but are more focused on air combat. If you look carefully and honestly at the F-22, then it is not very suitable for air combat.

The F-16, that ageless veteran, has stronger multi-role dynamics, but remains primarily a fighter, much in the same way as the MiG-29.

And in the rest of the F-35, which stands out a little for its improved ground-attack capabilities, at least Israel's use of this aircraft showed the F-35's capabilities in this regard.


So the only versatile aircraft at the disposal of the United States is the F/A-18. The versatility is reflected even in the name: fighter attack - fighter-attack aircraft. But the plane really turned out to be universal to the fullest, because even with a bomb load, the Americans shot down Iraqi MiG-21s easily and naturally, and then flew on to bomb targets.

Next on the list is the F-35, which is supposed to be quite multi-tasking. It is supposedly capable of performing six tasks simultaneously with the appropriate weapons. The idea behind this type of aircraft is to optimize tasks and increase the efficiency of the fleet. The US military envisioned the F-35 Lightning II to replace several older aircraft that will eventually be retired.

Why so insecure? Yes, because no one really saw the F-35 in action. The fact that Israeli F-35Is are demolishing houses in Gaza into rubble is, well, such an achievement. At home, they do not shy away and do not shoot back.

China…


They have everything simple and complicated at the same time. Since almost all of their aircraft have the Soviet MiG and Su base, there is nothing to repeat here.

The pinnacle of design work, the J-20 turned out to be a rather heavy, large aircraft with low maneuverability and thrust-to-weight ratio, which was facilitated by not the best Chinese engines today. In principle, the Black Eagle is also a multifunctional aircraft, but the problem is that all its capabilities are below average.


Europe


The Europeans, on the contrary, are moving with all their might in this direction. Tornado, Rafale, Typhoon – these planes were clearly designed for multifunctionality. And since European designers did not put the so-called stealth at the forefront, their planes turned out to be something between American stealth and Russian super-maneuverability.

We need to talk separately about which of all those listed is closer to the ideal. But if you look at real successes, it is clear that the Chinese are catching up, the Americans are lagging behind, and the question is who is better, Russian or European aircraft.

In fact, the evolution of combat aircraft goes exactly like this: from highly specialized aircraft to more universal ones. This is even economically justified: instead of a whole fleet of light fighters, heavy fighters, air superiority fighters, interceptors, fighter-bombers, attack aircraft and light attack aircraft, front-line bombers, long-range bombers, strategic bombers and missile carriers, there will be much fewer models and classes .

The best example is the British Royal Air Force. Two types of combat aircraft: Typhoon on land, F-35B at sea. All. But no headaches in terms of repairs and maintenance. Profitable, economical, it is possible to solve almost all combat missions of our time.

Special Operation


Let's look at the Aerospace Forces and those aircraft that perform combat missions in the Northern Military District. Right from the list of those that are in service.

MiG-29. Not used for many reasons, the main one of which is the removal of the aircraft from service.

MiG-31. Rarely and to a limited extent used as a missile carrier.

Su-27. Used in secondary areas, such as patrolling the Black Sea.

Su-57. Due to the small number, it is used sporadically for testing purposes.

Su-30. In use.

Su-35. In use.

Su-25. In use.

Su-24. Used sporadically.

Tu-22M. Used sporadically.

Tu-95. Used sporadically.

Tu-160. Used sporadically.

As follows from the list, in a completely modern military conflict in Ukraine, either truly multifunctional aircraft or outright veterans such as the Su-24 and Su-25 are used, about whose further fate there is no need to worry. Narrow-profile aircraft were used sporadically, if not once.

Indeed, why rush the Tu-160, which costs 16 billion rubles, with hugely expensive missiles, if the Su-34, which costs 16 times less, with UMPC bombs, does everything the same, only much cheaper? And the Su-34 can deliver missiles to the launch point no less quickly.


In general, the Su-34 is a very combat-ready aircraft that can perform many tasks to the envy of its enemies. And this is an aircraft that is capable of fighting without worrying about enemy fighters, since the “duckling” itself can tear off the wings of anyone.

If you carefully study the lists of losses of the Russian Aerospace Forces, according to British analysts, who, it must be said, keep statistics very clearly, then for the entire time of the Northern Military District there is no information about a single Su-34 shot down by Ukrainian aircraft. SAM - yes. MANPADS - yes. MZA - yes. And in 2024, all Su-34 losses were as a result of attacks on airfields. But in two years - not a single loss from enemy aircraft.

Of course, this also indicates that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have little aviation, but it existed and was operational. At least according to the reports of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But everything somehow missed the Su-34.

And it is quite natural that those aircraft that can most effectively carry out assigned combat missions with minimal losses participate in the air defense system.


The US is watching what is happening in the skies over Ukraine and analyzing the data received through all channels. And, unfortunately, in their armies There are smart minds who can perfectly assess the strengths of our aircraft and draw certain conclusions.

Of course, in order to get such a clumsy colossus as the American military department off the ground, a fair amount of time must pass. However, the stubborn obsession with stealth may end (especially given the enormous successes in this field of the F-22 and F-35), and military thoughts will return to the realization that Russia and Europe have come a long way ahead. And it will be an interesting hunt.

It has always been difficult to catch up and surpass, and today's China illustrates this very colorfully. And the mere fact that the Americans will have to catch up looks original in itself. But what to do if the Rafale and Typhoon on the one hand, and the Su-34 and Su-35 on the other, surpass the capabilities of the F-15 and F-22 pairs, and the F-35 and F-16?

In the end, the example of the European Air Force is indicative: you can have two or three universal aircraft for all occasions and fight successfully. Libya, Iraq, Syria have shown this. And this is much more effective, and even from an economic point of view, than spitting out hundreds of stealth fighters, the effectiveness of which no one really sees.

But in the US, judging by the publications, they have started to guess about something like that. I wonder how many years it will take them to rip off our Su-34?

After all, the future belongs to a universal aircraft, and not to an inconspicuous aircraft whose benefits and efficiency are not only subtle, but not noticeable at all.
266 comments
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  1. +13
    29 August 2024 04: 47
    Let's start with Russia, where they inherited a huge number of aircraft from the Soviet Union.


    The number of Russian aircraft inherited from the USSR cannot be called huge!!!
    1. +56
      29 August 2024 06: 35
      F-15E Strike egle - tensed. Or did the author deliberately forget or not know about the existence of this aircraft?
      1. +38
        29 August 2024 08: 46
        Damn, you who recently flew into space on a trampoline are now terribly jealous of our Su-34 wassat Apparently they hit the trampoline during flights and completely forgot that they have the F-15EX, which has a greater combat load than the Su-34 and with much better avionics.
        1. +22
          29 August 2024 08: 49
          I specifically didn’t mention the latest modification of the F-15EX, so that the SU-34 wouldn’t become too sad.
          1. +34
            29 August 2024 09: 08
            The author lives in a parallel reality. The technical level of analysis is that of an advanced kindergarten graduate... After reading this fantasy of a child's fan, it's just a pity for the lost time! Su-34 frontline bomber, carrier of nuclear weapons... The aircraft needs real modernization. On the basis of the Su-34, it is necessary to develop a light strategic bomber instead of the failed and useless monster PAK-DA. Easy and fast...
            Before the start of the SVO, we had only 130 Su-34, 100 Su-30, 100 Su-35... And that's it... Aviation in terms of the meager numbers in flight...
            1. +17
              29 August 2024 11: 06
              Quote: Vitov
              The author lives in a parallel reality...
              I finished reading with difficulty, but I am unable to grasp the flight of thought. I am just curious where such thoughts come from, what inspired them? If this is an attempt hatred - Well, it's not appropriate at all now. I want to believe that now someone in the General Staff is engaged in understanding what is happening and developing solutions for the future, the author did not succeed.
              1. +1
                30 August 2024 10: 52
                Su-34: time to wait for an American copy

                Actually, the Su-34 is an analogue of the F-15E, a strike modification of the heavy fighter...

                And in terms of characteristics they are practically identical.
                1. 0
                  6 September 2024 00: 32
                  Actually, the Su-34 is an analogue of the F-15E, a strike modification of the heavy fighter...
                  And in terms of characteristics they are practically identical.

                  In terms of weight, the Su-34 even surpassed it!
            2. +12
              29 August 2024 11: 28
              The author lives in a parallel reality. Technical level of analysis - advanced kindergarten graduate.

              Roman is a competent author and I have read his competent articles with interest more than once. But this nonsense is apparently what he should write so that the inhabitants of the planet Pink Ponies do not go crazy from reality.
              1. +18
                29 August 2024 11: 44
                Roman is a literate author and I have read his literate articles with interest more than once.
                Perhaps these were political articles. His technical articles are all of almost the same level as this one.
                1. +5
                  29 August 2024 19: 18
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  Apparently they hit the trampoline during flights and completely forgot that they have the F-15EX, which has a greater combat load than the Su-34 and with much better avionics.

                  There was an article on "VO" where they compared the Su-34 with the F-15EX:
                  engine power (comparable), wing area (the Su-34 has more, with greater lift of the body itself due to better aerodynamics), etc. These are all fairy tales about the superiority of the F-15EX.
                  1. +8
                    29 August 2024 20: 04
                    The tales are all about the superiority of the F-15EX.
                    It seems so. I can't remember what conflicts he was involved in. Maybe none.
                  2. +2
                    29 August 2024 20: 14
                    Were engine efficiency, thrust-to-weight ratio, speed and radars also compared, or were these indicators too inconvenient?
                    1. +3
                      29 August 2024 22: 49
                      Quote: overland
                      Were engine efficiency, thrust-to-weight ratio, speed and radars also compared, or were these indicators too inconvenient?
                      Everything was compared. Including the fact that at first the F-15EX did not even provide for the installation of additional tanks, and without them the combat radius for this type of aircraft was laughable. Now this point has been revised. You know that the F-15 does not even have its own batteries and it is almost impossible to launch the aircraft without airfield equipment. I am not even talking about unpaved airfields, which are not a problem for the Su-34. And the Su-34 always has an auxiliary power unit and batteries with it and can start and take off from any airfield, as long as the length of the runway allows. It has more than 12 tons of fuel in its internal tanks, which is twice as much as the F-15. Hence the combat radius without external tanks, which, moreover, take up suspension points where it would be possible to hang a bomb load.
                      Su-34
                      Weight:
                      equipped (with loaded gun and crew): 22 500 kg
                      normal takeoff:--------------------------------------- 39 kg
                      Maximum takeoff ------------------------------------ 45 kg
                      fuel -----------------------------------------------------------12 100 kg
                      max load with 100% fuel ------------10 kg
                      normal load with 100% fuel ---------------- 4 kg
                      Maximum permissible load ----------------------12 kg

                      I expect the same table from you for the F-15EX aircraft, but I very much doubt that you will provide it, since they have a practice of indicating the maximum bomb load, but not saying that the fuel tanks are empty at that moment. The same with the range: they indicate the maximum, without saying that with the maximum number of external tanks.
                      Quote: overland
                      Engine efficiency,

                      I would like more details on this topic.
                      1. +4
                        29 August 2024 23: 58
                        Saturn AL-41FM Specific thrust fuel consumption: 22,4 g/kNs
                        F110-GE-129: 18,0 g/kNs

                        The F-15EX also has a jet fuel starter and can be started normally without the need for additional ground support equipment, like the previous variants. I don't understand why you think it doesn't have batteries either. All modern aircraft have batteries for starting and backup power.

                        > they indicate the maximum, without saying that it has the maximum number of external tanks.

                        The F-15EX has a combat radius of 1250 km with two fuel tanks (each weighing about 2 tons), meaning the payload for bombs is about 10 tons. You are certainly right that the SU-34 has a longer range with the same payload. After all, it has much more internal fuel.

                        But now that we have compared the numbers, are we talking about real performance? First of all, in my opinion, the Su-34 is a good aircraft for Russia, which needs to operate aircraft over long distances, does not have a sufficient fleet of tankers, and needs to take off from poor runways.

                        And the F-15EX is a good aircraft for the US, which has access to a huge fleet of tanker aircraft and therefore does not have to sacrifice maneuverability and thrust-to-weight ratio by making the aircraft heavier than necessary. And unlike the Su-34, if there is nothing to bomb that day, and instead a massive strike is carried out towards the airfield, then a squadron of 4 F-15EX can easily take off with 22 (!) air-to-air missiles, detect low-flying targets from a long distance using the AFAR radar and shoot down almost a hundred cruise missiles or drones.

                        My main objection to your comment is that instead of attempting an objective comparison, you simply point out the convenient facts and ignore the inconvenient ones. Obviously, big batteries are really important for modern fighters, but let's not talk about AESA radars, satellite datalinks, or the built-in EW capabilities that allow them to also act as a very powerful jammer without external equipment? After all, in modern warfare, these things don't matter at all, it's all about taking off from bad runways.
                      2. -1
                        30 August 2024 00: 26
                        Quote: overland
                        The F-15EX is also equipped with a jet fuel starter and can be started normally without the need for
                        I took the information about the F-15 from a book.
                        "Fighters" modern aviation, Victoria.AST., Ilyin V.E., Levin M.A....ISBN 5-89327-003-7
                        Quote: overland
                        You just present convenient facts and ignore inconvenient ones.
                        I am giving facts that are clear to me. I am not very knowledgeable about electronics, so I will not go into details here, although I can add a little in terms of numbers. The old Su-27s had electronics weighing around three tons. The Su-34 (the first production ones, I have no data on the new ones) had seven tons. And as I understand it, the four tons were not added for weight, but perform their function, what exactly - I do not know (most likely they are needed for work on the ground.)
                        I know for sure that we are superior to the Americans in electronic warfare, since at one time they did not attach importance to this area and therefore fell behind.
                        I talked to one of the creators of the electronic warfare system for the Su-27, and I think that this is no longer a secret, since it was developed for the first Su-27s, so that the electronic warfare equipment would tune into the enemy's radar wave and begin to counteract it, a half-wave would be enough. That is, instantly.
                      3. +4
                        30 August 2024 00: 43
                        Why are we suddenly comparing the weight of electronics and it turns out that more weight is good? Maybe because these 120 nm transistors have 3 legs and two handles for carrying?

                        And Russia really has very good EW capabilities, that's a fact. And another fact: the Americans have them too. Especially since with a 3 nm element size and AESA antennas everything is different, and no carrying handles are needed...

                        I talked to one of the creators of the electronic warfare system for the Su-27, and I think that this is no longer a secret, since it was developed for the first Su-27s, so that the electronic warfare equipment would tune into the enemy's radar wave and begin to counteract it, a half-wave would be enough. That is, instantly.


                        So it turns out that the SU-27 can't be shot down by radar-guided missiles because it's so good at counteracting radio waves? Or maybe reality has shown that your friend exaggerated a bit, don't you think?
                      4. 0
                        30 August 2024 00: 57
                        Quote: overland
                        Why do we suddenly compare the weight of electronics and it turns out that more weight is better?
                        And where did I write that heavy weight is good? The main point of what was written is that the Su-34 has more than twice as much electronics as a fighter. And in my opinion, thinking that because the Americans have more compact equipment, it performs its functions better is a big mistake.

                        Quote: overland
                        So it turns out that the SU-27 cannot be shot down by radar-guided missiles because it is so good at resisting radio waves?
                        I didn't write about the countermeasure capabilities (I don't know about that) it was written about the speed of tuning to the locator, and what algorithms are embedded in the countermeasure equipment is another matter.
                      5. +1
                        30 August 2024 17: 25
                        the fact that the onboard electronics are heavier indicates the use of an outdated element base, the 90-130 nm process technology, and the potential enemy is already using something very different. A domestic backpack with a radio beacon weighs 3 kg. A Breitling emergency watch with a radio beacon weighs 200 grams. Well, if you don't go into details.....
                      6. 0
                        6 September 2024 00: 38
                        And in my opinion, thinking that because the Americans’ equipment is more compact, it performs its functions better is a big mistake.

                        And it is more compact, and it performs its functions better - "three heads", approximately, better... lol
                      7. +1
                        31 August 2024 13: 15
                        There is no 3 nm element in any American aircraft and there won't be one for another 15 years. Avionics are not a game console or a smartphone. Slowly developed, slowly adopted, reluctantly replaced, for years. Nowadays, even 90 nm is rare, and only in the latest upgrades.
                      8. -2
                        30 August 2024 00: 44
                        UPDATE.
                        The F-15 has a leading edge wing sweep of 45°,
                        Su-34 wing sweep - 42°
                        That is, both aircraft are designed for practically the same cruising speed.
                      9. +5
                        30 August 2024 00: 54
                        So the Yak-38 with a 45 degree sweep angle also flies at Mach 2,5? What about the B-2 with a 42 degree sweep angle? It's amazing how you can tell everything from one number! It turns out that engine thrust doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, aerodynamic shape doesn't matter, but someone forgot to tell the aircraft designers that! wassat
                      10. -1
                        30 August 2024 01: 01
                        Quote: overland
                        It turns out that engine thrust doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, aerodynamic shape doesn't matter, but someone forgot to tell the aircraft designers that!
                        I think he wrote in Russian:
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Both aircraft are designed for almost the same purpose cruising speed.
                      11. 0
                        31 August 2024 17: 23
                        And only the SR-71 was designed for a cruising speed of Mach 3,2 or about 3380 km/h at an altitude of 24 m... winked After all, it had a sweep angle of as much as 60°! laughing
                      12. -1
                        6 September 2024 00: 59
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        And only the SR-71 ................ After all, it had a sweep angle of as much as 60°!
                        I compare similar aircraft with similar wing shapes. Of course, if you take any exotic aircraft created using the "Duck" or "tailless" design, or even the F-104 with its short wings, they have their own geometry.
                      13. +1
                        6 September 2024 01: 03
                        I can repeat: ALL fighters have a cruising subsonic speed of about 0.85M-0.9M (900-950 km/h). Due to the peculiarities of the earth's atmosphere. winked
                      14. -1
                        6 September 2024 01: 14
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        I can repeat:
                        So...? Am I arguing with this?
                        I can repeat the same thing that I am talking about aircraft with similar design,
                        not about "ducks" and "tailless".
                      15. +1
                        6 September 2024 01: 21
                        Why do you think that the Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen do not have a subsonic cruising speed in the same range of 0.85M-0.9M?
                        Everything is the same!..
                      16. -1
                        6 September 2024 01: 54
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        Why do you think that the Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen do not have a subsonic cruising speed in the same range of 0.85M-0.9M?
                        I didn't write anything about speed. Delta wing, swept, ogive shapes - different sweep for the same speed, especially in the modern "duck" scheme where the canard forms air flows over the wing, and not just the elevator.
                      17. +1
                        6 September 2024 01: 56
                        Then please clarify what we are “arguing” about? smile
                      18. -1
                        6 September 2024 02: 09
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        Then please clarify what we are “arguing” about?
                        Structurally similar aircraft with similar wing shapes have different sweep angles, which means they are designed for different cruising speeds.
                        It's my opinion.
                      19. +1
                        6 September 2024 02: 21
                        If we approach this strictly, then the cruising speed will indeed be different for different aircraft, but (without pendants, - with them she will be completely different! lol) these differences are very minor - both for aircraft with a canard configuration and for aircraft with a classic configuration...
                      20. -1
                        6 September 2024 13: 30
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Structurally similar aircraft with similar wing shapes have different sweep angles, which means they are designed for different cruising speeds.
                        Su-57 outlines over F-22 outlines
                      21. +1
                        31 August 2024 17: 14
                        F-22 - leading edge sweep - 42°, F-35 - leading edge sweep - 35°, Rafale - 47°, Eurofighter - 53°, Gripen - 45°, - and all of them have a cruising speed in the region of 0.85M-0.9M, ~900-950 km/h at an altitude of 11 km. laughing
                      22. +1
                        31 August 2024 17: 57
                        Here's another "drop": F-104, sweep along the focal line 18°, cruising speed 925 km/h at high altitude... smile
                      23. +1
                        6 September 2024 00: 41
                        The F-15 has a leading edge wing sweep of 45°,
                        Su-34 wing sweep - 42°
                        That is, both aircraft are designed for practically the same cruising speed.

                        All fighters in the world are designed for approximately the same cruising speed - 850-900 km/h. Because the earth's atmosphere is designed that way - then the transonic zone begins and the resistance increases significantly.
                      24. 0
                        30 August 2024 04: 00
                        I'm a complete layman. But the Americans have special jamming aircraft. Are you sure they didn't pay attention to it? We didn't pay attention to stealth. So we don't have them.
                      25. +2
                        30 August 2024 09: 35
                        Quote: overland
                        Saturn AL-41FM Specific thrust fuel consumption: 22,4 g/kNs
                        F110-GE-129: 18,0 g/kNs

                        You write something about an objective comparison, but you yourself post outright misinformation. The Su-34 is equipped with AL-31Fs, which have a specific consumption of 0,75 kg/(kgf⋅h) at maximum speed and 0,64 kg/(kgf⋅h) at cruising speed.
                      26. +1
                        6 September 2024 00: 34
                        But let's not talk about AESA radars, satellite data links, or built-in EW capabilities that allow them to also act as a very powerful jammer without external equipment? After all, in modern warfare, these things don't matter, it's all about taking off from bad runways.

                        Is this some kind of very subtle sarcasm?
                      27. +1
                        31 August 2024 11: 37
                        ...at first, the F-15EX did not even provide for the installation of additional tanks, and without them, the combat radius for this type of aircraft was laughable. Now this point has been revised.

                        Both external fuel tanks and conformal fuel tanks were already on the first version of the F-15E (1988) and they never disappeared anywhere. Another thing is that their use or non-use depends on the specific task and the distance to the targets. In addition, each conformal fuel tank has 5 (five) weapon suspension stations. No one gets rid of such happiness.
                      28. 0
                        31 August 2024 16: 10
                        Good point, although I should note that the tanks probably take longer to install than regular drop tanks, so they will likely be semi-permanently mounted on some rather than others so they can respond quickly in an emergency. They have done the same with the reconnaissance pods on aircraft like the F-14. It is also not uncommon for different squadrons to make their own choices based on the missions they typically fly. For example, the first F-15EX squadron chose not to install them yet because they used to fly F-15Cs in air superiority roles, so every pound counts.
                      29. 0
                        31 August 2024 16: 33
                        Conformal tanks usually are installed permanently and are practically not removed (they do not worsen aerodynamics and provide 12 additional suspension stations). Without them there is too little fuel.. And removing/hanging the hanging tanks is a "matter of minutes".
                      30. 0
                        31 August 2024 16: 45
                        Fuel is enough if you have a tanker fleet of 650+ aircraft. You're right, it doesn't affect aerodynamics that much, but the extra weight is still not good for thrust-to-weight ratio and maneuverability. And yes, it's nice to have extra hardpoints, but you'd only really need a full load of missiles if you were defending against something like a massive attack on an airbase. Otherwise, about 10 missiles would be more than enough for air patrol. In fact, 4-8 missiles is more common, as far as I know.

                        On the other hand, for ground attack there is no comparison: you just need extra fuel and hardpoints.
                      31. 0
                        31 August 2024 16: 57
                        It still seems to me that in the end they will attach conformal fuel tanks to all new F-15EXs - they are light and not installing them is just temporary nonsense, someone didn't calculate the pros and cons well.
                      32. +1
                        31 August 2024 12: 30
                        You know that the F-15 doesn't even have its own batteries and it's practically impossible to launch the plane without airfield equipment.

                        This is from the series of "grandfather Krylov's fables" - one of the main requirements for US aircraft, which the customer issues. This is the ability to operate autonomously at any airfield anywhere in the world. Without batteries - no way.
                        Su-34
                        Weight:
                        equipped (with loaded gun and crew): 22 500 kg
                        normal takeoff:---------------------- 39 kg
                        maximum takeoff ------------------- 45 kg
                        fuel ------------------------------------------12 100 kg
                        maximum load with 100% fuel --10 kg
                        normal load with 100% fuel -- 4 kg
                        Maximum permissible load -----12 kg

                        F-15EX
                        Weight:
                        empty loaded: --------------------------15,694 kg
                        maximum takeoff ----------------------- 36,741 kg
                        fuel (internal tanks + 2 conformal) --- 6,800 kg
                        suspended fuel tanks 2271*3 --------------- 6,813 kg
                        Maximum permissible load -------- 13,400 kg
                        Quote: overland
                        Engine efficiency,

                        I would like more details on this topic.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F110#F110-GE-129
                        F110-GE-129
                        General Electric

                        General characteristics
                        Type: Turbofan engine with afterburner
                        Length: 462 cm
                        Diameter: 118,1 cm
                        Dry weight: 1 kg

                        Components
                        Compressor: 2-stage fan, 3-stage low pressure compressor and 9-stage high pressure compressor.
                        Combustion chambers: annular
                        Turbine: 1-stage high pressure compressor and 2-stage low pressure compressor
                        Bypass ratio: 0,76:1

                        Performance
                        Maximum thrust:
                        At maximum: 7,747 kg
                        Full Boost: 13,374 kg
                        Overall pressure ratio: 30,7:1
                        Mass air flow: 122,4 kg/s
                        Turbine inlet temperature: 1 °C
                        Thrust to weight ratio: 4,38:1 at max, 7,50:1 at afterburner
                      33. -1
                        6 September 2024 01: 08
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        You know that the F-15 doesn't even have its own batteries and it's practically impossible to launch the plane without airfield equipment.

                        This is from the series of "grandfather Krylov's fables" - one of the main requirements for US aircraft,

                        I have indicated the literature where I got the information about the absence of batteries in the F-15. Indicate your source of information about their presence in this aircraft. Otherwise, these are just your guesses, which are not a fact at all.
                      34. +1
                        6 September 2024 01: 19
                        How restless you are! laughing About "lack of batteries on F-15" - it was fake, very frivolous! THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. For example:
                        https://saft.com/media-resources/our-stories/air-power-why-newest-fighter-jet-carries-li-ion-batteries
                        Putting Li-ion in the air
                        Of course, a backup battery is standard for any aircraft. It's the use of Li-ion batteries that makes the F-35 different...
                        Use of Lithium-ion Batteries in the Air
                        Of course, a backup battery is standard for ANY aircraft. It is the use of lithium-ion batteries that distinguishes the F-35...
                      35. -1
                        6 September 2024 02: 02
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        About "lack of batteries on F-15" - it was fake, very frivolous! THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN.
                        In the literature I refer to, it is written that in the F-15, when both engines fail in flight, a turbine extends into the air flow, which, due to the air flow, generates electricity for emergency power supply of the aircraft.
                        By the way, it is unlikely that you can spin the turbine with batteries alone; for this you need at least an auxiliary power unit, which the Su-34 has (located in the tail). Does the F-15 have an APU?
                      36. +1
                        6 September 2024 02: 10
                        All this is great, many planes have turbines, even huge airliners, but who could be bothered by batteries, which have been used on all planes for 100 years?? Even opening the hatch and putting the turbine in the flow so that its generator starts supplying electricity to the network, even if there is a strong spring there, it would be nice to use at least some small electric relay, which, nevertheless, will not work without any power supply! wink You don't think that the F-15 pilot does this manually? That's the second thing, and first, I'll repeat it again: you land at a jump-off airfield in some wild foreign country, and then you need to start the APU. And how can you do that if there are no batteries?? The turbine won't do anything without the oncoming flow... lol
                      37. -1
                        6 September 2024 02: 18
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        Even opening the hatch and putting the turbine into the flow so that its generator starts supplying electricity to the grid.....,
                        I don't know how it's implemented on the F-15, but I once watched a movie about a small civilian aircraft (like the Cessna) and its monitors have their own batteries for backup. Basically, if the main power supply fails, they work for some time on their own batteries. I think all the little things have their own power supply. The only thing missing is batteries that can handle all the electronics of the aircraft, with its computers and electric control drives. The main power supply will appear only after the engines are started.
                      38. +1
                        6 September 2024 02: 25
                        Every normal airplane has at least THREE electrical networks: main, auxiliary and emergency. So the emergency one is powered by batteries, and a minimum of a minimum of consumers are connected to it. Where there is a turbine with a generator exposed to the flow, life is easier for the pilot. But that someone decided to remove batteries from the board completely - it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe.
                      39. -1
                        6 September 2024 02: 30
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        So the emergency one is powered by the battery, and a minimum of consumers are connected to it.
                        There was a video where a Su-27 pilot talked about a flight with both engines failing. The entire aircraft was controlled only by batteries. He landed successfully.
                      40. +1
                        6 September 2024 02: 33
                        Well, you see? There have been many such cases in the history of aviation. Therefore, removing batteries from the aircraft completely, entirely, is not a serious idea. Not viable. No one will approve it, even if it gets into the head of some stupid boss...
                      41. -1
                        6 September 2024 02: 36
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        Removing batteries from the board completely is not a serious idea.
                        I'll read the reference book during the day and provide details on this topic.
                        Good night.
                      42. 0
                        6 September 2024 02: 43
                        Sweet dreams!
                        Come back tomorrow, it's a bit boring here, people have become lazy... smile
                      43. -1
                        6 September 2024 10: 36
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        I'll read the reference book during the day and provide details on this topic.
                        It is written:
                        ".....The power supply system includes 2 three-phase alternating current generators with a capacity of 40/50 kVA (115/200 V, 400 Hz), 2 direct current transformer-rectifiers (15 A, 28 V), an emergency direct/alternating current generator with a hydraulic drive. Storage battery no. "

                        More interesting stuff:
                        "The F-15 fighter is one of the most reliable aircraft in the US Air Force: by the beginning of 1985, it had the lowest average accident rate (3,9 per 100000 flight hours)....
                        .......
                      44. +1
                        6 September 2024 11: 17
                        Miracles! Amazing! (The reference book is paper? What is it called?) I wonder: how did they solve this issue on the latest modification, F-15EX?
                      45. +1
                        6 September 2024 11: 29
                        Indeed, the F-15 is "lost" somewhere here:
                        https://cantecsystems.com/products/hawker-f0777-3020-ct-on-ca-wh-csl-1-detail
                        Description
                        Hawker has been a leading name in aircraft batteries for over 40 years. Air Forces around the world have relied on Hawker batteries to meet the high power and long life requirements of their military aircraft. Hawker batteries are the preferred fit on a wide variety of aircraft including the F-16, F-18, B-52, B-1B, C-130, Blackhawk, and Apache.
                        Description
                        Hawker has been a leading name in aircraft batteries for over 40 years. Air forces around the world rely on Hawker batteries to meet the high power and long life requirements of their military aircraft. Hawker batteries are the preferred choice for a wide range of aircraft, including the F-16, F-18, B-52, B-1B, C-130, Blackhawk and Apache.
                        ........................
                        I provided a link about the F-35 above. So, the F-15 was a "pleasant exception" to the norm. Not typical.
                      46. -1
                        6 September 2024 11: 30
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        The reference book is paper? What is it called?
                        "Fighters" Modern aviation, V. Ilyin, M. Levin, Moscow. Victoria*AST 1997
                      47. 0
                        6 September 2024 11: 32
                        Got it, thanks. It would be nice to clarify about the F-15EX, I haven't found any data yet... Of course, an additional weight of 41 kg (let it be 50 kg with fastening units and connection wires) will not deprive any aircraft of its flight characteristics...
                      48. -1
                        6 September 2024 11: 47
                        Quote: Strelkin
                        I wonder: how did they solve this issue on the latest modification, the F-15EX?
                        I think if the plane is good without batteries (one of the most trouble-free), why bother with this? Especially with the extra weight.
                      49. +1
                        6 September 2024 11: 56
                        I did provide a link above - they decided to "make do" with the F-35 as before - different companies, different approaches to the matter. And the weight gain is negligible.
                        Although I did not find batteries in the F-15, including the F-15EX:
                        https://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detail.html?model=F-15E%20Strike%20Eagle
                      50. -1
                        6 September 2024 01: 45
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Including the fact that initially the installation of additional tanks on the F-15EX was not even envisaged....
                        I mean "comfort tanks".
                  3. -4
                    30 August 2024 00: 02
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    The tales are all about the superiority of the F-15EX.

                    Yeah, fairy tales, the F-15's combat load is 2 times higher and the AFAR radar is powerful and modern and much more.
            3. +6
              29 August 2024 16: 59
              instead of the failed and useless monster PAK-DA
              - Do you have reliable information about the characteristics of the PAK-DA and the progress of work on it? Or is this from the category of comparing the "invisibility" of aircraft based on advertising statements?
              And explain how to make a strategist with a range of 34 km out of a Su-4500 with a range of 15000 km (ferry!)? Even completely empty and super-lightweight, it won't fly half that distance. No matter how you modernize it.
            4. +5
              29 August 2024 17: 33
              Technical level of analysis - advanced kindergarten graduate...

              How beautifully and accurately you have rated this article.
          2. +2
            29 August 2024 19: 47
            I read everything that was written about the author in the comments. It seems that I agree with everything, if not for one BUT... the thunderclap really drags this company. It is impossible to deny. But by the way, the overseas opponent did not distinguish himself with this.


            Also, let me remind you that the Sukhoi, after all, combines not only the functionality of a fighter and a frontline bomber, but also an attack aircraft. It is more protected and durable. And at the same time, more maneuverable. Doesn't anyone here read Facebook? ... I don't understand.
            1. +1
              29 August 2024 21: 13
              The Su-34 is a decent aircraft. But the link to the FB, who is a squadron navigator and was fired from the VKS not for good reasons, was a bit surprising. Yes, he has a good style, and he has walked the parade ground... But he is now more and more in a different field. IMHO.
              1. +1
                1 September 2024 05: 16
                You probably worked at the Soviet Information Bureau?

                "We will not believe citizen "N" (although he has been providing absolutely accurate data for 2,5 years), since his moral character does not correspond to our proletarian ideal."
            2. 0
              31 August 2024 12: 38
              Let me also remind you that the Sukhoi, after all, combines not only the functionality of a fighter and a frontline bomber, but also an attack aircraft.

              But no one can drink enough to use the Su-34 as an attack aircraft. laughing
              It is more protected and resilient.

              Who tested it and on what?
              And at the same time, more maneuverable.

              Compared to what?
              Doesn't anyone here read FB?... I don't understand.

              What is "FB"?
              1. 0
                1 September 2024 04: 59
                It's a matter of taste, but obviously you don't mind the main thing.
                1. 0
                  1 September 2024 16: 07
                  As for the "stormtrooper", it's not serious today...
          3. +1
            31 August 2024 18: 12
            What's so sad about it? I didn't see any total advantages of EX, so that it would be really sad
        2. +2
          30 August 2024 12: 27
          then it is more correct to compare the F-15EX with the modernized Su-34M
          combat radius
          F-15EX = 900 km
          Su-34M = 1800 km (AL-41F-1S turbojet engine) - without PTB
          bomb load - sort of the same but with nuances
          F-15EX =
          12 tons with a combat radius of 900 km (without PTB)
          to achieve the F-15EX combat radius of 1500 km, PTBs are needed (minus 3 tons)
          = the bomb load will be 8 tons and there are already 9 suspension points with a load of no more than 500 kg
          Su-34M =
          8 tons with a combat radius of 1500 km (without PTB)
          12 tons with a combat radius of 1000 km (without PTB)
          1. 0
            30 August 2024 13: 59
            It turns out that the Su-34M is equipped with the AL-41F-1S turbojet engine. negative
            Why do you constantly write some of your own inventions, what is the goal?
            1. +1
              30 August 2024 15: 10
              In fact, since December 2021, a series of modernized Su-34Ms have already been delivered
              equipped with AL-41F
              1. 0
                30 August 2024 17: 58
                series of modernized Su-34M
                equipped with AL-41F

                In this case, I take back my words and apologize.
        3. 0
          13 September 2024 19: 55
          Roman is thrown from one side to another. Losses in the SVO zone of Su-34 are from 5-10, there is a video of the defeat and shot down on the ground. In general, there are losses of Su-34 both in the air and on the ground....
      2. +10
        29 August 2024 10: 09
        The author clearly broke his fingers writing something without naming the prototype of your Su-34. Namely, the F-15E or more precisely the B-15E. Apparently he conveniently forgot that he has been fighting since 1991.
    2. +5
      29 August 2024 15: 20
      The author has been making publications in the style of "there are no analogues" with an excessive touch of "hurray". And I would like to see a more sober and realistic assessment. But alas. I have a suspicion that another person is writing under the name of Roman.
      1. 0
        4 September 2024 12: 44
        Quote: Timon2155
        The author has recently been making publications in the style of “there are no analogues” with an excessive touch of “hurray”.
        and before he did it strictly in the style of "everything is lost!!!1111")
        1. 0
          4 September 2024 23: 20
          As the last 2,5 years of the SVO and the landing of the star-lampasny have shown, the early "everything is lost" Skomorokhov was closer to the truth))) Indeed, everything turned out to be organized extremely poorly. What the top brass didn't finish in the fat years, the common people have to fix by donations and all-out help. But colossal funds were allocated for re-equipment. Where are they? They evaporated. So, Roman was right then - it was very close to "everything is lost".
  2. +18
    29 August 2024 04: 55
    From the point of view of versatility, the Su-57 with new engines is very interesting.
    In terms of speed and radar - almost the Mig-31, in terms of combat load - parity with the Su-34, in terms of avionics - better than the Su-35.
    A universal pair of Su-57 and S-70 UAV for dropping UPMB - very likely this will be the future of the Russian air fleet.
  3. +47
    29 August 2024 05: 00
    The Americans made a copy of the Su 34 earlier than the SU 34, called the F-15E Strike Eagle.
    1. +22
      29 August 2024 06: 33
      A hundred pluses to your karma. The author of the article is quietly delirious. At the moment, there is not a single task that the Su-34 performs that the Su-35 and Su-30 cannot perform. The Su-34 is produced only because now a lot of aircraft are needed - any. And the F-15E significantly surpasses the Su-34 in capabilities, thanks to the same pods and much more.
      1. -2
        29 August 2024 09: 21
        The Su-34 is a universal aircraft for many tasks. Its universality lies in the crew's ability to conduct multi-hour patrol and intelligence gathering missions. The Su-34 is an eternal universal machine for decades. Its modernization potential exceeds the capabilities of all our other attack aircraft, including the Su-57... Cross the Su-34 and Su-57, slightly increase the dimensions - and the new strategist is ready.
        1. +4
          29 August 2024 21: 55
          And what no one on the forum knows is that the Su-34 cockpit allows pilots to stand up, walk and do other useful things. Other classmates do not have such opportunities for pilots! This allows for a comfortable flight for quite a long time. Didn't know?
        2. +3
          30 August 2024 00: 01
          There is no universality there. It is just a frontline bomber. The air combat radar is weak. Heavy. Maneuverability is not at the level of fighters.
      2. +3
        29 August 2024 19: 44
        The F-15E significantly outperforms the Su-34 in capabilities


        Controversial. Sukhoi combines the functionality of not only a fighter and a bomber, but also an attack aircraft. It is more durable and more maneuverable. The weapon that is more universal within its niche is always better. Let me remind you that the Panther was superior to the T-34 in everything (!!!)... but there is a nuance, as they say.
        1. +1
          30 August 2024 04: 04
          The nuance is that the USSR was able to produce more T-34s?
        2. 0
          6 September 2024 00: 45
          The F-15E significantly outperforms the Su-34 in capabilities

          Controversial.

          Undoubtedly. For those who understand... laughing
          It is more durable and more maneuverable.

          Who said and on what basis?? am
      3. -1
        31 August 2024 18: 15
        Regarding significantly superior, please voice it. Or is this your wet dream?
  4. -7
    29 August 2024 05: 10
    I'm not sure that the Americans will create something similar to the Su-34. You can't really make money on that! For example, an F-35-2 - they could definitely slap together something. So that the funding would be up to par.
    On the other hand, I fully admit that they will want to create a more universal machine, and more trouble-free, than the F-35.
    They certainly won’t give up strategic aviation: the proposed theaters of operations are too far from America to give up missile carriers. In addition, their program to replace the Minutemen is in question due to the huge expenditure of the budget.
    1. +11
      29 August 2024 05: 42
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      I'm not sure that the Americans will create something similar to the Su-34
      There is already an answer above:
      Quote: Cartalon
      A copy of the Su 34, the Americans made earlier than the SU 34, the F-15E Strike Eagle is called
      1. +2
        29 August 2024 10: 52
        Well, here's the thing... Previously, an aircraft was developed taking into account the carriage of as many detection and destruction means as possible. That is, for the battlefield of the 20th century. The battlefield of the 21st century has changed dramatically. Changes were made by high-speed means of transmitting and processing information in real time. As well as reconnaissance means and their integration into a single network. Now, by and large, we need a robotic aircraft, a platform-carrier of weapons, capable of using its weapons upon receiving a command from an external source, and its weapons will also be programmed for targets and guided remotely with the participation of AI. The pilot is now superfluous.
        1. +1
          29 August 2024 22: 14
          "The pilot is now superfluous"///
          ---
          That's where it's heading.
          But the transition will be gradual.
          First: a leader with a pilot and several wingmen without pilots.
          The States are working on a combination of F-35 and 3-4 Kratos.
          The F-35 gives targeting information and then the Kratos attack "as best they can" with their
          electronic brains AI. If they shot and survived - they return
          each one independently to the base along the routes.
      2. -1
        30 August 2024 02: 12
        There is already an answer above:
        Quote: Cartalon
        A copy of the Su 34, the Americans made earlier than the SU 34, the F-15E Strike Eagle is called

        This is not a copy. Yes, it is similar. But the plane is similar, it has different flight characteristics. About six months ago, the Zvezda TV channel compared American machines with ours. It seems, in the "Battle of the Gunsmiths" series. The F-15 is less maneuverable, it is tailored for "hit and run" tactics. It is essentially different.
        1. +2
          30 August 2024 05: 48
          This is not a copy
          Yes, it is not a copy. This aircraft is very close in its characteristics to the Su-34 and is designed to solve exactly the same tasks as the Su-34. Or rather, on the contrary, the Su-34 was created for the same tasks as the F-15E Strike Eagle
  5. +7
    29 August 2024 05: 49
    The eternal debate about the specialization and universalization of combat aircraft. It has been going on almost since the time of the Wright brothers and, as the article shows, to this day. First one point of view, then the other, won. And practice will tell you the truth. One catch - it takes years + good luck to create a new concept in aviation. Let us recall at least the brilliant aircraft designer and loser Bartini. Or the unenviable fate of the universal Su-2, supplanted by the specialized Il-2.
  6. +11
    29 August 2024 05: 53
    Indeed, why fly the Tu-160, which costs 16 billion rubles, with missiles of enormous cost, if the Su-34, which costs 16 times less,

    Why drive a Rolls-Royce Specter, which has 4 wheels and 4 seats, including the driver, when the same can be done on an old Zaporozhets, which also has 4 wheels and 4 (and, if necessary, 5) seats. The cost of the machines is incommensurable, and the cost of operation is orders of magnitude better than that of Zaporozhets.
    Funny? Of course it's funny. These are different machines for different tasks and the only thing they have in common is the number of wheels.
    1. 0
      31 August 2024 18: 18
      They have one task - to transport. After that, there is only showing off, which in military affairs is absolutely meaningless, or rather suicidal.
  7. +6
    29 August 2024 06: 13
    The MiG-31 “pure interceptor” was used in the Northern Military District at the initial stage, while the Ukrainian Air Force was still flying. From the airspace of Crimea, 31 Ukrainian combat aircraft and UAVs were shot down, sometimes more than one per day.
  8. +9
    29 August 2024 06: 18
    The USA has such a converted F15EX from an old man. The combat radius is approximately the same as that of the SU34, the maximum speed is approximately twice as high (there are dark rumors that at afterburner even at three, and it is supposedly capable of catching up with the MIG 31, but these are rumors) Home the trouble is that this aircraft can carry up to 13.8 tons of weapons over a full radius of 1200 km, while the SU-34 can only carry 8 tons (well, supposedly when the combat radius is limited to 600 km to 12 tons, but sources are vague about this). And he at maximum take-off weight, for some reason, it’s 8 tons lighter (36 tons versus 44 tons). It’s already clear about the latest control systems; soon enough they’ll also add a flock of slave drones to it, and then the co-pilot operator will be completely justified. The F15EX airframe has also been polished for decades. So that the amers have something to answer for the SU-34. (But there is a toilet and a microwave in it, for some reason there isn’t, so hungry American pilots will only have to wear diapers. Paradox)
    1. -8
      29 August 2024 06: 29
      diapers are their specialty.)) they wore them in space, until our people told them about the special toilet.
      1. +3
        29 August 2024 08: 16
        Quote: Lemon
        diapers are their specialty.)) they wore them in space, until our people told them about the special toilet.

        The toilet was already in Skylab. It just took them a long time to come up with a successful design like ours.
    2. +3
      29 August 2024 06: 59
      An old aircraft can be converted into a carrier of container radars without waiting for the construction of special aircraft. It will most likely have 12-13 tons of radio electronics and other similar equipment on board.
      Therefore, outdated equipment will continue to serve in its new role for a long time.
    3. +5
      29 August 2024 09: 08
      Quote: Yuri L
      The main problem is that this aircraft can carry up to 13.8 tons of weapons over a full radius of 1200 km.

      May I ask the sources of this information? Usually the max combat radius is indicated with 2 medium-range and 2 short-range missiles, i.e. less than 500 kg
    4. +3
      29 August 2024 11: 13
      Quote: Yuri L
      there are dark rumors that on…
      Don't believe the rumors. The car is undoubtedly worthy, but reality differs from the commercials. They proved it already on the 15th: never in reality pulled the maximum. There is no point in talking about the speed of the 15th: with a load at best up to transonic.
    5. +3
      29 August 2024 23: 59
      It can't fly faster than 2.5 Mach, heat-resistant materials are needed. That's why all modern fighters fly at about 2.35 Mach.
      13.8 tons is a sham, the maximum it could carry was 4 tons.
      1. +3
        30 August 2024 13: 13
        Quote: RondelR
        13.8 tons is a sham, the maximum it could carry was 4 tons.
        There is a photo where the then newborn F-15e is dragging either 24 or 26 CBU-87 containers, and they are almost half a ton each. But as I said earlier
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        reality is different from commercials...on the 15th they proved: never in reality carried the maximum.

        The maximum speed values ​​are achieved under optimal conditions, although the F-15 is declared to be M2,5, but
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        with a load at best up to transonic.
        These speeds are probably only operational for the MiG-31, up to 2,83 - it was created for this.
        Advertising is known to be the engine of trade. feel
        1. +2
          30 August 2024 16: 28
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          ….on the 15th they proved: never in reality carried the maximum....

          Su34, 36 bombs on suspension (written OFAB-250-270)
          1. 0
            30 August 2024 19: 07
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            Advertising is known to be the engine of trade.
            1. +1
              31 August 2024 00: 40
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Advertising is known to be the engine of trade.
              Personally, I have never come across such advertising of our aircraft (maximum bomb load for the sake of a photo). Demonstration of aircraft at exhibitions, aerobatics, aircraft flights (if they are large) - such things exist. With bombs for the sake of advertising - I have never come across them.
              I am sure that the photo shows a Su-34 on a combat mission.
              1. 0
                31 August 2024 03: 35
                You probably heard the story of how the Tu-22 was presented to Brezhnev? After they said that it could drop a carload of bombs in one pass, he immediately said that it was a good plane….
                Can you imagine how far an airplane with such a load can fly? Not far…
                1. 0
                  31 August 2024 10: 22
                  In the photo, there are 9-10 tons of bombs hanging. See the table:
                  Su-34
                  Weight:
                  equipped (with loaded gun and crew): 22 500 kg
                  normal takeoff:--------------------------------------- 39 kg
                  Maximum takeoff ------------------------------------ 45 kg
                  fuel -----------------------------------------------------------12 100 kg
                  max load with 100% fuel ------------10 kg
                  normal load with 100% fuel ---------------- 4 kg
                  Maximum permissible load ----------------------12 kg
                  1. 0
                    31 August 2024 13: 37
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    See the table:
                    . Hmm, the PLS values ​​are not visible.
                    I understand your desire, but advertising...
    6. +1
      31 August 2024 13: 03
      The US has one converted from an old F15EX... The main problem is that this aircraft can carry up to 13.8 tons of weapons over a full radius of 1200 km

      This is too much. With in-flight refueling, it can reach the other side of the earth, but without the drop tanks it only has 6800 kg of fuel in the internal tanks + the drop tanks.
      "Ferry range: 3900 km - with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks" , — that is: if we roughly take half of this distance, then the radius will be 1950 km — with three PTBs and without load. Three PTBs contain the same amount of fuel as the internal tanks plus two KTBs, that is, without three PTBs, its radius will be half as small, about 975 km. no load! And if you hang 13 tons without the drop tanks (there is no more space for drop tanks and the maximum takeoff weight does not allow it), then the combat radius will be kilometers 450-500 maximum...
      1. +1
        31 August 2024 13: 13
        The Su-34, when fully fueled, has a maximum load of no more than 10.5 tons (at maximum takeoff weight), and will have a combat radius of about 1000 km with this load.
  9. +3
    29 August 2024 06: 31
    Su-24. Used sporadically.

    Tu-22M. Used sporadically.

    Tu-95. Used sporadically.


    It’s controversial because such data is not publicly available.

    The S-24MR is the only one that can carry out reconnaissance at a distance of 400 km from the LBS without entering the enemy air defense zone. The reconnaissance version of the Su-34 is just being prepared.
    1. +3
      29 August 2024 07: 46
      Quote: avia12005
      The S-24MR is the only one that can carry out reconnaissance at a distance of 400 km from the LBS without entering the enemy air defense zone.

      You, apparently, had something to do with the maintenance and operation of the Su-24MR, one can feel a very good attitude towards this aircraft, which inspires respect.
      It is not clear how the Su-24MR can carry out reconnaissance at such a distance, without entering the air defense zone, considering that even at the time of rearmament in the mid-80s, the aircraft was outdated.
      The time of the MiG-21R, Su-17R, Yak-28R, Su-24MR has long passed, back in the distant 80s.
      1. +4
        29 August 2024 08: 41
        Before writing, I specifically checked with the pilots who flew it. In the 90s, the 313th separate airborne reconnaissance unit in Domna regularly carried out radio reconnaissance of adjacent Chinese territories at such a distance on the Su-24MR, of course, without crossing the border.
        1. +2
          29 August 2024 08: 54
          If there is anything we can agree on, it is that... without crossing the border.
          Domna, a suburb of Chita, is a long way from the Chinese border, and in the 90s, no one flew regularly then, if at all.
          1. +2
            29 August 2024 09: 44
            Continue to be in such confidence.
            1. +3
              29 August 2024 10: 14
              The Soviet Air Force was armed with such a unique aircraft as the MiG-25RB, which was part of the reconnaissance aviation regiments.
              1AE - MiG-25RB, 2AE - Yak-28R, 3AE - Yak-28pp (jammer)
              So, the MiGs carried out all the radio reconnaissance, they climbed very high (the earth looked like a ball, just kidding)
              As a bomber, it also had no analogues, one probable deviation was equal to approximately 2-3 km, but less was not required, considering the bomber features of the MiG-25RB
              1. +1
                29 August 2024 12: 21
                I agree with the Mi-25RB, but the Su-24MR has a slightly different purpose and a different composition of onboard equipment.
          2. +3
            29 August 2024 15: 58
            During the first Chechen war, the Su-24 was the main reconnaissance aircraft. I remember early in the morning in February 1995, it was flying over the runway of the Grozny airport. Su-24 24 flew over Chechnya.
  10. +7
    29 August 2024 06: 32
    ...."They stood idle."
    The planes were standing (they were created, they flew and even stood - so that there would be no "business" (war).

    Roman certainly understands the essence and meaning of the country's security doctrine,
    but his style of writing... plays a cruel joke on him again and again:
    The “boyish approach” in presentation (simplicity and bravado) is mixed up with serious scientific and technical problems...
    It seems that you can’t make fun of style, but the writer must also develop.
  11. +8
    29 August 2024 06: 51
    The buffoon, as usual, is talking absolute nonsense. The Americans have long ago come up with the F-15 and F/A-18 Super Hornet, which can perform the same tasks, and on top of that, they can also provide good air cover, while the Su-34, due to its wretched radar designed to work on ground targets, is not able to compete with enemy aircraft.

    At the same time, the tasks of the Su-34 in the VKS can be successfully performed by other aircraft, namely the Su-30/35.

    Alas, but the Su-34 is an aircraft from the Vietnam War, the edge is Afghanistan. But not from a modern theater of military operations.
  12. +1
    29 August 2024 06: 51
    And where did they put the f15ex? This is the right path for today. The US had the f111 - a direct analogue of our machines. But they refused.
    1. 0
      30 August 2024 22: 09
      No The US had the F111, a direct analogue of our machines., and in the USSR they made "Su-24, an analogue of the F-111". One problem: "the chimney is lower and the smoke is thinner" ...
      https://airwar.ru/enc/fighter/f111.html
      https://airwar.ru/enc/bomber/su24.html
  13. +10
    29 August 2024 07: 06
    Su-34: time to wait for an American copy

    Such a big article...
    The "American copy" - the F-15E Strike Eagle, appeared 38 years ago, four years before the "original". Since July of this year, the Boeing F-15EX Eagle II has already been accepted into service.
  14. +3
    29 August 2024 07: 22
    After all, the future belongs to the universal aircraft

    There are no universal aircraft. An attack aircraft will never replace a fighter, and a fighter will never replace a frontline bomber. And the Su-34 mentioned here will never become an interceptor, no matter what weapons you load it with...
  15. +2
    29 August 2024 07: 25
    We should thank the Soviet Union on our knees for leaving us an aviation that can still fight. And we have a lot to choose from to go into battle. Yes, some planes are outdated and not so adapted to modern combat conditions. Or maybe we lack the intelligence and desire to modernize them.
    In thirty-five years, have we been able to reach the level of combat aviation that was in the USSR?
    How many NATO aircraft do we have to contend with? At least 5-6 thousand aircraft. And how many do we have? No more than a thousand. These are the questions that have become a pain in the neck. How many of the most advanced universal Su-57 aircraft do we have?
    Can we assemble a regiment?
    Why not create a new attack aircraft based on the SU-25, since an aircraft with its functionality of attacking over the battlefield is needed. They are trying to transfer its functions to the Yak-130M, well, at least they are trying to do something.
    Another question is to make your own F-35 based on the Yak-141.
    As Mayakovsky wrote, "Different mothers are needed, different mothers are important." The military air fleet must be harmonious for a country like ours. soldier
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 11: 32
      Quote: V.
      The military air fleet must be harmonious for a country like ours. soldier

      Today, by the way, is the Day of the USSR Air Force Flag - by the decree of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR of August 29, 1924, the aviation flag was approved, and I congratulate you on this.
      Today, frankly speaking, I found out.
    2. +3
      29 August 2024 16: 04
      Quote: V.
      Why not create a new attack aircraft based on the Su-25, since an aircraft with its functionality of attacking over the battlefield is needed.

      The story of the UMPK shows how much we need an aircraft over the battlefield. The Ministry of Defense, which until recently was proud of the "Gefest" + cast iron combination, is now trying at any cost to move the load release line away from the LBS. Anything but a cast iron bombing.
  16. +5
    29 August 2024 07: 31
    Eh, author, author...
    "We won't even talk about the Su-24 and Su-25 here," yes, better not talk about it, the same Su-25s are flying like crazy to the front line and back, and Ukraine is begging for those same A10s from the Americans...
    As for ripping off our Su-34 and how much time it would take to rip it off, I'll disappoint you... F-15EX. Take an interest in this bird and its capabilities, including its payload.
  17. +5
    29 August 2024 07: 31
    Universal weapons are for the poor, specialized weapons are for the rich.
  18. +11
    29 August 2024 07: 36
    Five MiG-31s ​​covered the area from the Barents Sea to the Gulf of Finland, not to the Bering Sea.
    1. +8
      29 August 2024 07: 59
      The main thing is to blurt it out. What if they believe it? laughing
    2. +1
      29 August 2024 11: 22
      The link had the ability to cover 1000 km of the front, as is now fashionable - a completely network-centric combat unit: the battle could be led by one of the 'cabinet', if by the level of training he was not an ordinary graduate of Stavropol. Oh, we had one of the 'cabinet' here, it's a pity he disappeared... And the ability to knock down everything from low altitudes to the ceiling was proven by the Savastleys when they were mastering it
  19. -1
    29 August 2024 08: 09
    I disagree with the part that the Su-34 is overly expensive for the tasks it currently performs.
    A drone that costs 10-20 times less can drag a guided bomb to the specified square and drop it towards the enemy.
    1. +1
      29 August 2024 11: 59
      We don't have heavy UAVs. The generals said why do we need UAVs, we have the Aerospace Forces.
      1. -1
        29 August 2024 15: 54
        Well, maybe we should start making them? And not on the principle of expensive hunters, but the simplest engine with wings.
  20. +4
    29 August 2024 08: 22
    The article is certainly interesting. And the topic discussed is relevant. But for some reason the author really ignored the American F-15EX. And it is precisely on this that the Air Force command is now supposedly going to place its main bet, decommissioning the F-22s.
    So they don't need to "catch up and overtake".
    The main thing here is for us not to lag behind. So that the Su-34, a truly multi-purpose and universal machine, develops taking into account the combat experience gained.
    And we absolutely need a specialized tactical aviation electronic warfare aircraft based on the Su-34, like the American Growlers and the now former EF-111 Raven. This is where we are really lagging far behind our "partners"...
    1. +1
      30 August 2024 22: 04
      The article is certainly interesting. And the topic discussed is relevant. But for some reason the author really ignored the American F-15EX. And it is precisely on this that the Air Force command is now supposedly going to place its main bet, decommissioning the F-22s.

      This is a ridiculous fairy tale. In reality, there is nothing like this. The F-15EX is designed to work "on call", where, where there is no need to use the F-22 or F-35 - the enemy has weak air defense.
  21. +8
    29 August 2024 08: 22
    You can mock the idea of ​​stealth as much as you like, and disparage the F-35 "penguin". But Israel has been using them for a long time, regularly, and plans to buy even more, and the Jews have been accused of everything, including "drinking the blood of Christian babies" (c), but not of not being able to count money. But for that money they could have ordered any American aircraft currently in production (well, with the exception of "strategists"), including the Strike Eagle, and it would have been cheaper, or, rather, more aircraft for the same money. But no, they are buying the expensive F-35s. And no, the F-35s do not "raze houses in Gaza to rubble", the F-16s do this for a much lower cost per flight hour, but they are the ones who can knock out the Persians on Syrian territory, so badly that you can't even tell where they came from.
  22. +4
    29 August 2024 08: 23
    Quote from Nesvoy
    F-15E Strike egle - tensed. Or did the author deliberately forget or not know about the existence of this aircraft?

    It seems the author doesn't know much, but writes articles with confidence that compensates for the lack of knowledge. Comparison of radar characteristics, EPR, network-centricity, combat radii of aircraft, weapons used, AWACS aircraft, etc. - he doesn't do that.
  23. -3
    29 August 2024 08: 33
    Now we need an unmanned aircraft with the following performance characteristics: radius of 500-1000 km, payload of 1000 kg, ceiling of 7000 m, speed of 1000 km/h, takeoff and landing "like an airplane" on retractable landing gear, jet engine, radar that allows the use of guided weapons.
    So that it could carry guided weapons - 4 FAB250, or 6 Vikhr/Germes-A missiles, or one X58/X38 anti-missile missile.
    Let's say we take a Su25 and "divide it in two", remove the armor and the pilot's cabin, leave one engine, and get an unmanned aircraft measuring 7x8, about 2,5 m high.
    One of its main tasks is to fly from a frontline airfield, deliver 4 KABs to the drop point, using laser guidance from the ground. And so on all day long, and so that there are many of these aircraft (for this, their conveyor production is needed, approximately 1-2 units per day). From a height of 7 km, so that they are not shot down by MANPADS.
    At the very least, there is an advantage here compared to manned aircraft - there is no pilot, you can fly close to the front line and even above it, without fear of losses. Compared to kamikaze drones - reusable and has a payload of 1 ton. Compared to UAVs like Altius - fast and maneuverable with the same payload.
    1. +3
      29 August 2024 10: 13
      It's called S-70. They're making it.
      1. 0
        29 August 2024 11: 28
        Yes, that's exactly how to compare it with the S-70. In terms of layout, it's the same, single-engine, possibly a delta wing. In terms of size, it's about 2,5 times smaller. In terms of range, it's 6 times smaller, in terms of ceiling, it's 2,3-2 times smaller in terms of combat load. That is, if the Okhotnik is a super-expensive, one-off machine for some "wars of the future" and special missions, which, like the Su-2,5, is made in small series and more for testing for now, then this new aircraft should be a mass-produced, assembly-line workhorse of frontline aviation that's cut to the limit. For combat work here and now, which suffers losses, maybe one per day, but also comes off the assembly line in the same quantities and does combat work. Namely, it drops KABs on guidance from the ground. It hunts for frontline medium-range SAMs; if it is possible to install the Vikhr/Germes-A ATGM on it, it also works on vehicles. It is usually used en masse, several units in one tactical direction, which hang in the air all the time, and are replaced by others.
        The hunter is clearly not for this.
        In terms of characteristics, the Skat UAV is closer here, although it seems they never made it.
  24. +3
    29 August 2024 08: 42
    With all the versatility of the Su-34, why isn't it being bought abroad? Algeria once took the topic seriously and so far everything
    1. +4
      29 August 2024 09: 23
      It is, so to speak, conditionally universal. It is still necessary to provide cover with fighters when they (Su-34) are fully loaded in the strike version. In addition, this aircraft fully reveals itself during intensive combat operations. And where else in the world do we have such battles?
      1. -1
        29 August 2024 11: 27
        Quote: Sergey985
        Where else in the world do we have such battles?

        The SVO allows you to fully reveal all of your performance characteristics. Everything you need is here.
    2. +3
      29 August 2024 09: 47
      India and Algeria bought targeting containers and corr aerial bombs...they don't need the Su-34.
  25. +3
    29 August 2024 08: 53
    Sorry, but the author is really not aware that the US has an excellent bomber based on the F15, practically an analogue of the Su-34? Rather, it was we who made the Su-34 in order to plug the hole.
    1. +1
      29 August 2024 23: 57
      F15 Strike Eagle is a full-fledged MFI, it is maneuverable for air combat and has a radar. Our analogue is more likely the Su-30.
  26. AVP
    +9
    29 August 2024 09: 14
    The author has absolutely no understanding of the issue. Why doesn't he have a MiG-29 or Su-27, why doesn't he have an F-15E, what made the MiG-31 useless to him, etc. And the answer to these questions is very simple - if the author is forbidden from using Wikipedia or, God forbid, the Internet - all he can write about the plane is "well, they can fly".
  27. +4
    29 August 2024 09: 24
    "Su-34: Time to Wait for an American Copy"
    F-15E Strike Eagle - Yeah, yeah, fuck me... Yeah. laughing
    1. +4
      29 August 2024 09: 45
      F15EX is a 4+++ model, which we in the Russian Federation should also strive to achieve.
  28. +6
    29 August 2024 09: 29
    What about the new products? It's fine. Despite the fact that the Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 are all the same Su-27
    And the Su-75 is a stealth multirole 5th generation fighter - Checkmate, what's wrong with it?
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 09: 45
      They said they started making a batch for testing
      1. -4
        29 August 2024 09: 46
        started making a batch for testing
        There's still a long way to go before the series...if they started it for testing
    2. 0
      29 August 2024 09: 47
      It wasn't bought. laughing "" ""
      1. -2
        29 August 2024 09: 48
        It wasn't bought.
        It was meant to be that way..
        1. -1
          29 August 2024 09: 50
          Yeah. The Bharatians came out of the SU-57 project, even though it was built and flies. But apparently they know something.
      2. -2
        29 August 2024 09: 48
        They will buy it as soon as the Russian Ministry of Defense buys it. And it is not flying yet, but it has its advantages - all its components are serial.
        1. -3
          29 August 2024 09: 49
          And even the "second stage" engine? laughing
          1. 0
            29 August 2024 10: 10
            Why are you so attached to the second stage turbojet engine? The Su75 has both the AL41F1 and "30" turbojet engines. The AL41F1 version for the S70 (and single-engine aircraft) was said to be undergoing endurance testing. The oil tank was enlarged and some other things were moved to another place, and the "brains" were moved to another place.
            And it’s not a fact that the 30 will be in export versions.
        2. +2
          29 August 2024 11: 00
          In 2021, the media reported a lack of interest in the project among foreign customers. In 2022, Defence Arabia reported that the UAE could be one of the first countries to buy the Su-75. In October 2022, the UAE suspended financial participation in the project due to the postponement of the fighter's first flight, first from 2023 to 2024, and then, possibly, for a longer period.
          1. +2
            29 August 2024 11: 04
            Based on the experience of selling the Su-30 and MiG-35... the export will be handled by the aircraft that is in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces. The fate of the Su-75 depends only on the Russian Aerospace Forces. And this project is in maximum readiness, since its components and materials are already flying in the Su-35S and Su-57 and are being tested in parallel in the flying prototypes of the S-70.
            1. +1
              29 August 2024 11: 08
              Moreover, the head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov stated that the first prototype of the Russian single-engine fighter Checkmate could be created by the end of 2025.
              1. 0
                30 August 2024 09: 24
                Yeah, "maybe", and maybe not. hi
              2. +1
                31 August 2024 09: 21
                Yeah, yeah... he's a real chatterbox, you listen to him and you don't understand what he's saying, or rather, each word individually is understandable, but the combination of words is beyond comprehension because it's complete nonsense.
                And with the magpies... well, 2025 will come and the deadlines will start to shift to the right, first by a year, then by two, and by the end of 2025 the deadlines will shift by five years.
    3. 0
      31 August 2024 05: 06
      And the Su-75 is a stealth multirole fighter.

      This is not a fighter, it is a model, production of which has not even begun.
  29. +1
    29 August 2024 09: 44
    Here is a control plane - it was a very promising idea for the Arctic. The MiG-31, with its simply amazing radar and communications systems, was planned to be used as an airborne tactical command post, which would monitor the airspace and coordinate the work of the air defense, the Aerospace Forces and the Navy.

    1. At least the best radar is currently installed on the Su35S and will be installed on the Su30SM2. Such an aircraft should have a long service life of both the airframe and the turbojet engine.
    2. In terms of long flights, the Su34 cabin would be more comfortable (no armor needed) and you can hang weapons and fuel tanks
    3. It is logical to build a control plane for the North (and we have many of them) on the basis of a civil airliner. It is more comfortable and cheaper.
    1. +3
      29 August 2024 10: 19
      Universal things are found mainly only in everyday life, but in the professional world they do not exist. To think that aviation is some kind of exception is wrong, the efforts to create a universal aircraft are akin to the desire of a car enthusiast to repair a car with one adjustable wrench,
      1. +1
        29 August 2024 11: 06
        That's what I wrote about. The ideal is a conditional Tu-204DRLO. And the Su-30SM2 has all the same systems and weapons as the MiG-31BM.
  30. +4
    29 August 2024 09: 51
    And in the rest of the F-35, which stands out a little for its improved ground-attack capabilities, at least Israel's use of this aircraft showed the F-35's capabilities in this regard.

    "Stands out a little" well, well...
    This is an uber stealth standout in the series.
    His grandfather, the F-117, took out Baghdad's air defense zone, comparable to Moscow's, in three nights.

    A flight of these over Kharkov would be enough to throw us into chaos. Yes
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 10: 11
      It looks like bots have come running here again.
      1. +1
        29 August 2024 10: 38
        It looks like bots have come running here again.

        No, hat-throwers. The F-35 stealth is crap, time to scrap it, the Americans need to copy the Su-34 as soon as possible. laughing
        1. +1
          29 August 2024 11: 01
          Not crap, but not a cult... Su34 is a 4th generation aircraft... Su35S is a 4th ++ generation... F35S is a 5th generation and is on the assembly line. And according to the specifications and in fact, it is a strike aircraft with advanced air defense capabilities. And even for the 5th generation, it is not a standard.
          1. -3
            29 August 2024 11: 28
            Not crap, but not a cult... Su34 is a 4th generation aircraft... Su35S is a 4th ++ generation... F35S is a 5th generation and is on the assembly line. And according to the specifications and in fact, it is a strike aircraft with advanced air defense capabilities. And even for the 5th generation, it is not a standard.

            According to the TZ, in fact, this is an aircraft that, now, with the current air defense, can easily operate over Voronezh.
            1. +1
              29 August 2024 11: 32
              In fact, no one can fly over the LBS with echeloned air defense.
              If the air defense and ELINT are equipped with PFAR and AFAR radars. F35 will fly through the LBS after the first or second strike of BM and CR on the command post and air defense centers and only then will they be able to do their job. And, yes, they are much more survivable than the 4th generation.
              But the 4th can also work well as a cruise missile with a range of up to 1 km against the same targets.
              And it is necessary to take into account that not all countries have echeloned air defense (there are only a few of them) and the Russian Federation will not allow AWACS aircraft, tankers, PP, and RC aircraft that support the activities of the F35 to fly along the border.
              1. 0
                29 August 2024 12: 17
                In fact, no one can fly over the LBS with echeloned air defense.
                If the air defense and ELINT are equipped with PFAR and AFAR radars. F35 will fly through the LBS after the first or second strike of BM and CR on the command post and air defense centers and only then will they be able to do their job. And, yes, they are much more survivable than the 4th generation.
                But the 4th can also work well as a cruise missile with a range of up to 1 km against the same targets.
                And it is necessary to take into account that not all countries have echeloned air defense (there are only a few of them) and the Russian Federation will not allow AWACS aircraft, tankers, PP, and RC aircraft that support the activities of the F35 to fly along the border.

                In fact, the ancient "Strizh" flies to Ryazan through 2 RTV regiments and to Engels through 3, and only on approach is it caught by the military Pantsir, that's all the echeloning.

                But Stealths will not wait for suppression, they themselves are intended for this, at least in Iraq and Yugoslavia this was done.

                You can't see them, that's the problem. Fifth generation... wink
                1. +1
                  29 August 2024 12: 25
                  One swift flies in, launched from an unknown source, along a reconnoitered route and altitude, it has no way back. And the work of strike aircraft is work on a specific theater of military operations.
                  Bombs with wings are dropped in 404 up to 1 thousand per week....
                  Our cruise missiles like the X101, Kalibr and Gerani also fly off where they need to, often right into the air defense missile systems.

                  And once again, F35s are most effective when there is an external targeting system...and they fly passively along a reconnaissance route and do their business. Already in the second wave (in beast mode) they hang everything under the F35's wing and go ahead.

                  Will the VKS allow support vessels from the territory of a neighboring state to refuel and carry out RC for F35? I THINK NOT.
                  1. +1
                    29 August 2024 12: 52
                    One swift flies in, launched from an unknown source, along a reconnoitered route and altitude, it has no way back. And the work of strike aircraft is work on a specific theater of military operations.
                    Bombs with wings are dropped in 404 up to 1 thousand per week....
                    Our cruise missiles like the X101, Kalibr and Gerani also fly off where they need to, often right into the air defense missile systems.

                    And once again, F35s are most effective when there is an external targeting system...and they fly passively along a reconnaissance route and do their business. Already in the second wave (in beast mode) they hang everything under the F35's wing and go ahead.

                    Will the VKS allow support vessels from the territory of a neighboring state to refuel and carry out RC for F35? I THINK NOT.

                    The Ukrainian Armed Forces do not even attack the radiotechnical troops in the frontline zone and in the depths. That is, they do not interfere with them at all.
                    All the work is done by military air defense, Tor, Pantsir, Buk, S-300, etc. in the decimeter range, and in it stealth is completely invisible.

                    There won't be any problems with target designation, they already have the Link 16 network on the F-16, there is online exchange from satellites to individual fighters on the ground.

                    This is what makes these F-16s dangerous. Unlike the Ukrainian MIGs, they are integrated into the NATO data exchange system, the level of situational awareness is an order of magnitude. The pilot has everything in sight at once, in the air and on the ground, from the takeoff of the Tu-22 in Oleneorsk to the camouflaged Thor on the front line from the tablet of the brigade reconnaissance battalion commander.

                    And the F-35 is also invisible, so it just rippled across the monitor...
                    1. +1
                      29 August 2024 13: 02
                      You are mistaken. They are hitting PPs and Radars and BUKs and Pantsirs.
                      For old radars (under interference) ripple, for new PFAR and AFAR - target. For OLS ZRPK Pantsir - target.
                      1. -1
                        29 August 2024 13: 37
                        You are mistaken. They are hitting PPs and Radars and BUKs and Pantsirs.
                        For old radars (under interference) ripple, for new PFAR and AFAR - target. For OLS ZRPK Pantsir - target.

                        Well, yes, they work on military air defense. And all these stationary ones, P-16, P-18, Nebo, Kasta, Protivnik, Oborona, Gamma... In short, the country's air defense.
                        Not of interest to the enemy.

                        And this is indicative. wink
                      2. 0
                        29 August 2024 13: 46
                        And they actually don’t have any aviation or cruise missiles (in large numbers).
                        This also needs to be understood.
                      3. +1
                        29 August 2024 13: 59
                        For the OLS, the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and gun system is the target.

                        Pantsir's OLS is for working with cannon weapons, forget about missiles.
                        If Pantsir saw the F-35 in the optical range, then this means that the F-35's EOTS also saw Pantsir.
                      4. +2
                        29 August 2024 17: 21
                        Who said? It works in passive mode, found a target and the missile went through a normal channel
                      5. 0
                        29 August 2024 17: 30
                        Who said? It works in passive mode, found a target and the missile went through a normal channel

                        I said.
                      6. +2
                        29 August 2024 17: 52
                        The C125 could also operate via optics in Vietnam
                      7. +1
                        29 August 2024 18: 02
                        The C125 could also operate via optics in Vietnam

                        Let me cut short any further bedtime stories by simply informing you that on a Pantsir you will not be able to determine the nationality of the aircraft without the SOC turned on, the radio interrogators are part of 1RS1, not 1RS2. Therefore, forget about the OES for working with missiles on aircraft. 1) work on the ground 2) work on low-altitude cruise missiles. That's all.
                      8. 0
                        29 August 2024 20: 24
                        Are we talking about war or about crossing LBS?
                      9. +2
                        30 August 2024 09: 21
                        Are we talking about war or about crossing LBS?

                        Лline Бoevgo СIt is difficult for me personally to separate contact from war or other verbal designation of armed conflict. If there is the latter, then most likely there is the former. Therefore, I do not quite understand where you are getting at
                        I can assume that since there is a war, there is no need to figure out whose plane it is, the enemy is clear, they saw a spot on the screen received from the OES, and fired all 12 barrels. That is approximately what the Patriot crew did on Monday. The result is minus their F-16. hi
    2. 0
      31 August 2024 18: 33
      Is this the one who was shot down over Serbia by a conventional missile? Well, well.
      1. 0
        31 August 2024 21: 58
        Is this the one who was shot down over Serbia by a conventional missile? Well, well.

        He is the one. Famous. The one and only. wink
  31. +8
    29 August 2024 09: 51
    Fu
    Some kind of hooray-superficial, incorrect analysis.

    IMHO, they don't need this at all.
    There is an established type of successful aircraft. Only here the twin brothers are given new names Su-27,30,34,35.
    And for example, they assign modernization letters after the F15 number.
  32. -2
    29 August 2024 10: 36
    In the end, the example of the European Air Force is indicative: you can have two or three universal aircraft for all occasions and fight successfully. Libya, Iraq, Syria have shown this.

    A generalist is always worse than a specialist. Europeans fought only in colonial wars.
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 11: 26
      And what does a Su34 specialist have? The best avionics from the T10x is now on the Su35S.
      Now it will be installed on the Su30SM2. The advantages of the Su34 are a comfortable cabin with its own ramp and the ability to hang up to 3 tons. I think, with great desire, this can be implemented in the Su30SM2.
  33. -1
    29 August 2024 10: 43
    The author believes that the Su-34 costs 1 billion rubles?! Maybe it did, 10 years ago. It's 2024, the prices have skyrocketed.
    1. 0
      29 August 2024 11: 07
      Only those who prepare and sign contracts know how much an SU-34 costs, but how much they might cost is a mystery shrouded in darkness.
  34. +2
    29 August 2024 11: 54
    Lots of letters - lots of inaccuracies and the result is a weak article.

    As an example: Tornado is not a universal aircraft. 2 lines of modifications - interceptor and attack.

    If we are talking about comparing the cost of the Su-34 and Tu-160 operation, then we need to determine the essence of the operation, otherwise the cost of the Yak-130M is even lower.

    The uselessness of the MiG-29 and Su-27 is a very controversial statement. The practice of Ukraine, which converted them into carriers of guided strike weapons, definitely refutes this. Perhaps we should have converted the Sukhoi 24, 25, 27, 33 and MiG-29 into strike aircraft - carriers of guided bombs and missiles. But this must be done taking into account all factors, first of all - how many more years we will fight. And no one can say for sure, even if they know.
    1. DO
      0
      30 August 2024 18: 09
      Quote: Pavel57
      Perhaps we should have re-equipped the Sukhoi 24, 25, 27, 33 and MiG-29 into attack aircraft - carriers of guided bombs and missiles. But this should be done taking into account all factors, first of all - how many more years we will fight. And no one can say for sure, even if they know.

      Only God knows how long we will fight.
      However, based on the totality of well-known facts, if we apply common sense and banal logic to them, the next few years for sure.
      In any case, the re-equipment of old but still viable tactical aircraft at repair plants into attack aircraft, and in justified cases into drones, here and now will give a total of more in-demand combat aircraft than only serial plants will churn out new aircraft. In the event of a conflict with the entire NATO bloc, the unlikely overproduction will mean only some overspending of resources, while significant underproduction will most likely lead to defeat.
      Road spoon for dinner.
  35. 0
    29 August 2024 12: 10
    The most universal tool is an axe! You can split, chop, trim, hammer a nail... You can even shave)))))))))) For a carpenter, an axe and a brace are quite enough.
    But as soon as we move on to carpentry tasks, all sorts of planers, complexly sharpened chisels and multi-profile rasps and needle files appear, and even precision multi-coordinate CNC machining centers.
    Highly specialized equipment costs a lot of money and requires qualifications. But the task will be completed with excellent quality and minimal labor costs.
    I hope these analogies aren't too vague?
  36. -1
    29 August 2024 12: 17
    First. Piston-engine aircraft could be built en masse, like tanks of the same era, and therefore they could be specialized relatively easily. Jet-age aircraft became more complex and expensive. Mass production of jet aircraft became more complicated, and now they began to make an order of magnitude fewer of them in the same period of time. In such conditions, specialization gave way to universalization, when the same aircraft began to perform different functions. Is it possible to return to specialization now? Up to certain limits dictated by the state economy. And still, the aircraft of the future will perform several different functions.
    Second. During the war, the Germans made the "Panther" as their analogue of the Soviet T-34, but the "Panther" did not become a complete copy of the Soviet tank. The Germans got their own tank with their own, German technological solutions. The same will happen to the Americans, who cannot live without computers. If they try to create an analogue of the Su-34, it will be a completely different plane.
  37. -1
    29 August 2024 12: 35
    I would not say at all that in today's modern conditions, strategic bombers are becoming obsolete. Apparently there is simply no use for them.
    The basis here is "strategic".
    And there is practically no counteraction to the ultimate TNT equivalent released by the strategists’ missiles.
    Because a massive attack by a large, or very large, number of strategists is very difficult to parry. Especially if the attack is carried out simultaneously from different directions.
    We can say that universal ones can do this too, but they won’t create the same massive impact, the combat load is not the same, and the chainmail is too small.
    Strategists are specifically for the Big War, the total one.
    What about their use today, when there are few targets for them. Well, they need to be trained with combat launches, not just mixing up the training grounds with raisins.
    You yourself said about our interceptors, five of them actually cover the northern border with surveillance, so it’s too early to abandon them, considering their response speed, that is, delivery of the necessary ammunition in the minimum time to the required point, as well as patrol time without the stress of refueling.
    My resume, don't let them be. You can't spoil Masha with a castle.
  38. +4
    29 August 2024 12: 50
    I didn't understand this text at all...
    Nothing but water and unclear conclusions.
    Made the Su-34 a multifunctional fighter, but turned the real F-16 multifunctional fighter into a pure fighter.
    Masya's article is like this.
    It feels like the tests are written not by Skomorokhov, but by Yandex's neural network.
    Did Skomorokhov find out about chatGPT?
  39. +3
    29 August 2024 14: 32
    I finished reading the article by our "regular" expert... A strange feeling creeps into my soul: either there is, from someone, an "instruction" to sow chaos and confusion in the minds of ordinary Russians, "clung" to the VO, or to carry out a general "relaxation" through "victorious and cap-throwing" articles... There is something to think about..... And, certain "positive" results of such "activity" are already in the "marble and bronze" in the Kursk direction... On the essence of the problem raised, I will answer with a line from a children's poem, ".... Different dads are needed, all kinds of dads are important..." (S. Mikhalkov)... We need specialized aircraft, where each has its own tasks and its own goals, for which it should be "sharpened"... Universalism is good in hand-to-hand combat, when only the force of gravity acts on the "universal object", and everything else depends on your skills, abilities and experience... But a combat aircraft is something completely different... And the Americans know how to build aircraft and work on mistakes, too...
  40. +1
    29 August 2024 15: 00
    The low visibility of the aircraft allows the military-industrial complex to steal colossal amounts of money without being noticed!
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 23: 04
      maiman61, It's a bit silly, but very, very pompous... I congratulate you, you caught the "trend" of the moment like a sail catches the wind....
  41. +2
    29 August 2024 15: 31
    Actually, the Su-34 was initially called the Su-27 IB and was developed as a response to the F-15E. The Su-30 appeared later as a more commercial variant.
  42. +3
    29 August 2024 15: 33
    Something terrible happened

    Someone once again believed that he has a brain lol
  43. +3
    29 August 2024 16: 07
    Another victim of narrow specialization is the MiG-31. An interceptor that had nothing to intercept. The times of spy planes and high-altitude balloons filled with equipment irrevocably sank into history along with the Cold War, and the MiG-31 was truly left out of work.

    Hmmm... did I miss something, and we have an air defense line in the North with means of detection and long-range interception of SLCMs and ALCMs? Because without it, the only air defense means in an unequipped theater of operations remains the MiG-31.
  44. +1
    29 August 2024 17: 12
    According to the author's logic, we can continue: why do we need the RS-24 if we can install a SBCH on the Iskander, why do we need SSBNs if diesel submarines can launch "calibers"? Why do we need self-propelled guns if the T-90 tank can fire the same high-explosive shells. Why does the infantry need a machine gun if the AK-12 fires 5.45. The author has a very peculiar idea of ​​military equipment and the purpose of various classes of aircraft. The author, the universal is always worse than the specialized.
    1. 0
      29 August 2024 23: 02
      Author, the universal is always worse than the specialized.

      Not anymore. The F-15EX is equally good at both ground and air targets. But having one aircraft with a dual function is very cost-effective.
    2. +2
      29 August 2024 23: 20
      Dear Vulpes! There is no logic here... It's just that "the depth of immersion in the topic is not showing through..." It is possible that there is a banal "hype" that was recently discussed in the pseudo-scientific press about a "single universal locomotive" for Russian Railways, well, and by analogy they decided to "hook" combat aviation on the subject of "universality"... The domestic scientific world is groaning and crying from mass amateurism in all areas of natural sciences and the general decline in education and professionalism of the population of today's Russia... Hence the strange polemics and articles about a single "universal" locomotive and airplane... That's how it is...
  45. 0
    29 August 2024 17: 39
    No one can compare with the Tu 160 in terms of speed, the maximum amount of time flies on Forsage, no one can catch up with it
    1. +1
      29 August 2024 23: 09
      But the Americans took their B-1A, converted it into a B-1B, and lost it in the process. 1000 km/h (!) speed, added several tons of weight to strengthen the airframe, to the glass, to the ability to fly for hours on WWI - but acquired the ability to overcome air defense at extremely low altitudes, an electronic warfare station, "which has no analogues in the world" ...
      Happiness is not in speed...
  46. +2
    29 August 2024 19: 08
    The finished Su-34 was not accepted into service for more than 20 years and things only got off the ground a few years ago.
    During this time, the "stupid Americans" have riveted hundreds of F35s and rearmed them with NATO air forces. Against which the Su-34 without cover is a fairly easy target.
    1. -2
      29 August 2024 23: 11
      The finished Su-34 was not accepted into service for more than 20 years and things only got off the ground a few years ago.

      Su-34 is a "stillborn child", it was brought into the world in vain. It was necessary to continue to look at the bourgeoisie... They do not have an analogue of the Su-34 and never will be.
  47. 0
    29 August 2024 20: 22
    Why do the Americans need 4+ if they are already working hard on a 6th generation aircraft? The Su-34 is a good development from the early 90s. 30 years have passed since then. Technologies change. Today, the F35 has a blip on the radar the size of a goose
    1. +1
      29 August 2024 23: 56
      The overgrown goose is at least the size of an airborne radar.
  48. +3
    29 August 2024 21: 36
    However... It's time for Roman Viktorovich to quit drinking. Completely. The volumes of nonsense being circulated are growing by leaps and bounds.
  49. +4
    29 August 2024 21: 54
    "I wonder how many years it will take them to rip off our Su-34?"///
    ---
    Not in any time.
    The day before yesterday in aviation.
    Only the Su-57 can be talked about as something modern.
    1. +1
      29 August 2024 23: 12
      Only the Su-57 can be talked about as something modern.

      It is impossible, since the Indians have turned their snouts up...
  50. +5
    29 August 2024 22: 51
    It is sad.
    As my CS teacher used to say - "A fighter-bomber is a lousy fighter and an equally lousy bomber" (c) I'm not even mentioning the fact that for some reason the author is sure that the Su 34 is a universal aircraft and not just the opposite - a specialized "frontline bomber" machine. And even those machines that the author lists as universal - always have modifications adapted either for strikes against ground targets or for air combat... (F 15S and F 15E are actually two different aircraft).
    Well, I don’t even want to comment on the flight of fantasy about the “uselessness” of the Tu 22 and their replacement with the Su 34.... Just to remind you that delivering a 300 kg or 900 kg warhead to a target is, as they say in Odessa, “two big differences.”
    1. +2
      29 August 2024 23: 17
      The F 15C and F 15E are actually two different aircraft.

      However, no. The F-15C really didn't have the F-15E's features, but the 15 F-1988E could do absolutely everything the F-15C could, and the current F-15EX is that absolute all-rounder, "one in two faces"...
      1. +1
        31 August 2024 22: 35
        There are no "universal" and there never were... they differ in their targeting and navigation systems and in a number of other characteristics. And training pilots to strike ground targets and to air combat... well, let's say, different tasks... yes, if we consider air combat as an option of "unloading missiles according to marks on the screen" then yes... but reality makes adjustments...
        1. 0
          31 August 2024 23: 34
          There are no "universal cars" and there never were...

          I have already tried to decipher the phrase with one of my friends here multirole strike fighter — perhaps you have some special translation option?
          They differ in their targeting and navigation systems and in a number of other characteristics.

          How is the F-15EX fighter different from the F-15EX strike aircraft? wink
          And training pilots to strike ground targets and to fight in the air... well, let's say these are different tasks...

          A multirole strike fighter must have a multirole pilot in the cockpit. No other way.
          yes, if we consider air combat as a variant of "we unload missiles according to marks on the screen" then yes...

          Modern air combat is largely reduced to this, and the more perfect the destroyer, the greater and greater the percentage of air battles goes to air-to-air combat and less and less to air-to-air combat, and only a very small amount remains for dogfighting with guns. In the F-22, this ratio was especially interesting, approximately 97:2:1, and the latter at the discretion of the F-22 pilot, simply so as not to die of boredom...
          only reality makes adjustments...

          Please, more details here?! About bloody air battles? When was the last time you heard about them?
          .........................
          By the way: pilots on aircraft carriers, on the same F-18E/F — There is absolutely no division there between "fighters" and "shock fighters".
          1. 0
            1 September 2024 02: 59
            There is a typo above:
            "...the more advanced the fighter, the greater and greater the percentage of air battles that go to ДVB and less and less on BVB, and only a very small amount remains for dogfight on guns."
  51. +2
    29 August 2024 23: 13
    The author dumped everything in a heap and started comparing warm with soft, and as a result it was complete slag.
  52. +2
    29 August 2024 23: 55
    It's funny. This begs the question of why the Su-34 is needed. If any MFI can drop gliding bombs just as well.
  53. +2
    30 August 2024 12: 46
    Russia, due to the huge length of its borders, simply needs a pure interceptor. Precisely because it is tailored to intercept air targets - from cruise missiles, drones to bombers and low-orbit satellites. Specialization in equipment - from radar to armament, climb speed, ceiling, fuel supply, combat radius and even flight readiness time - everything is tailored to this task, for air defense and missile defense. Universality is a cut-down version of a little bit of everything in one. It is good for France or Germany, where there are NATO allies and short distances. Where all that is needed is to drive another Iraq or Iran into the Stone Age with the whole pack of ten states. So what the author is leading to specifically for Russia is unclear.
    1. 0
      1 September 2024 20: 49
      Russia, due to the enormous length of its borders, simply needs a pure interceptor. Precisely because it is designed to intercept air targets - from cruise missiles, drones to bombers and low-orbit satellites.

      But there is a MiG-31? Just replace the radar and install an OLS...
      1. +1
        1 September 2024 21: 19
        The MiG-31 is a wonderful aircraft, unique. But years of use take their toll. Electronics and weapons can be updated, but the airframe cannot. But as an interceptor for the northern and Far Eastern borders, it is excellent for its time. Russia will still need a new interceptor when the last MiG-31 and Su-27 are scrapped.
        1. 0
          1 September 2024 22: 54
          You can upgrade electronics and weapons, but not the glider.

          Why update it, what's wrong with it? He can fly for another 50 years with this glider.
          1. +1
            1 September 2024 23: 24
            The MIG-31 was produced until 1994, and more than 500 units were produced. According to open data, less than a hundred are currently in operation. The latest one is 30 years old. Aluminum, titanium - that's good. But 30 years is a long time for an airplane. Of course, it will last until the 30s. But fatigue and structural integrity increases the accident rate several times.
            1. 0
              1 September 2024 23: 28
              But 30 years is a long time for an airplane.

              The Americans are planning on having the B-52 fly for 100 years - is that not a lot?
              1. +1
                1 September 2024 23: 32
                A lot. A slow-moving bomber with billions of dollars invested in repairs and upgrades, and a heavy fighter with huge overloads and speeds... With the Russian budget realities under sanctions and war
                1. 0
                  1 September 2024 23: 38
                  and a heavy fighter with huge overloads and speeds...

                  The MiG-31 does not experience any special overloads AT ALL. They do not fly into close air combat with guns (dogfight). All its overloads are only from atmospheric turbulence...
                  And speed doesn’t really affect metal fatigue – if it’s done well.
                  1. 0
                    2 September 2024 13: 00
                    Well, tell that to the statistics of MiG-31 crashes over the last 10 years. And the desire of pilots to fly a 30-40 year old plane into the stratosphere or at 3 Machs
                    1. 0
                      2 September 2024 13: 03
                      To do this, you need to know, first of all, reasons each disasterAnd only then draw conclusions whether the fatigue of the design parts is to blame, or something else?
                      Because Iranian F-14s have been flying for half a century and are still in service. And they are no slouch: they have variable geometry wings!
                      1. +1
                        2 September 2024 17: 16
                        The F-14s remaining in Iran are assembled from dozens of donors, and you don't know what they are like in combat, or their disasters. Just like the reasons for the MiG-31 disasters, no one will tell you the truth. Old planes are old. And they are not really designed for daily use in combat. You can argue as much as you like, but these planes will not become any younger.
                      2. 0
                        2 September 2024 18: 08
                        In Bulgaria, until very recently, there were three, including MiG-21 aircraft, which served quietly for half a century... And, I repeat: in the USA, they plan to keep the B-52 in operation for 70-80 years. Naturally, everything inside has been updated five times, but the power part of the airframe and the skin are the same...
  54. +4
    30 August 2024 13: 56
    Bullshit, not an article.
    "The Su-34 can do the same as the Tu-160, Tu-95, but cheaper." Can it throw missiles into Lvov and Odessa?
    "Not a single Su-34 was lost to enemy aircraft." And not a single one was lost to the enemy fleet either. What kind of aircraft do they have there? Did we have any losses from Ukrainian aircraft? The ghost of Kyiv? lol
    And the losses in 2024 are only on the ground because they learned to drop bombs from the UMPK, and not cast iron from ultra-low ones, like the Il-2, and to drop bombs from the UMPK, you don't need hundreds of kilograms of titanium armor of the Su-34, which reduces the mass of the payload. No one will copy the Su-34, a pure bomber (just don't talk about its fighter capabilities) is a dead end and archaic in modern warfare. Don't consider the military in the West stupid. As harsh reality has shown, if something has "no analogues", then no one needs it.
    1. 0
      31 August 2024 16: 13
      Quote: Letun
      "The Su-34 can do the same as the Tu-160, Tu-95, but cheaper." Can it throw missiles into Lvov and Odessa?


      What's stopping you? If the Sukhoi Design Bureau weren't busy living off the budget, but cared about the country's combat capability, the Su-34 would exist in the "F" version, capable of carrying two Onyx class missiles. In terms of weight, it can carry three (Onyx weighs 2 tons, the maximum load of the Su-3 is 34 tons), only the suspension issue. 12 kilometers of range is quite enough. There are no questions at all with the 800th Caliber, it weighs less than two tons. And that's at least 14 km.
      Now -- no, it can't. But we have a Sukhoi zoo in the troops, a real treat! From Su-25 to Su-57, and nothing is compatible with each other...

      Quote: Letun
      No one will copy the Su-34, a pure bomber (just don’t talk about its fighter capabilities) is a dead end and archaic in modern warfare.


      Why then don't they write off the A-10? That's archaic indeed! :)

      Quote: Letun
      Don't think that the military in the West is stupid. As harsh reality has shown, if something "has no analogues", then no one needs it.


      For example, air defense of the battlefield. What the hell do we need all these Shilkas, Tunguskas, Tors, Pantsirs, Buks for... There are F-35s! Everyone line up, the Americans are not stupid, they know how to do it :)
      1. +1
        1 September 2024 23: 27
        By the way, where are all our Tunguskas? They showed only a couple of them in the entire SVO. It seems there were a lot of them in the troops back in Chechnya
    2. +1
      1 September 2024 21: 23
      Harsh... But to the point. I even laughed at the last one - if something has no analogues, then it means that no one needs it. laughing That's right!
  55. 0
    30 August 2024 16: 04
    "Su-34: It's time to wait for an American copy."
    Hah
    Copy of an American copy...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTGKgRIQjfg
  56. +2
    30 August 2024 20: 00
    Quote: Letun
    Bullshit, not an article.
    "The Su-34 can do the same as the Tu-160, Tu-95, but cheaper." Can it throw missiles into Lvov and Odessa?
    "Not a single Su-34 was lost to enemy aircraft." And not a single one was lost to the enemy fleet either. What kind of aircraft do they have there? Did we have any losses from Ukrainian aircraft? The ghost of Kyiv? lol
    And the losses in 2024 are only on the ground because they learned to drop bombs from the UMPK, and not cast iron from ultra-low ones, like the Il-2, and to drop UMPK bombs, you don't need hundreds of kilograms of titanium armor of the Su-34, which reduces the mass of the payload. No one will copy the Su-34, a pure bomber (just don't talk about its fighter capabilities) is a dead end and archaic in modern warfare. Don't think that the military in the West is stupid. ...


    Just like the Il-2 wasn't ideal during WWII, but it was in production. The same goes for the Su-34, it's not always ideal for new tasks, but it's there.
  57. 0
    30 August 2024 22: 15
    Some kind of hackneyed opportunistic article...like he smoked something and it hit him.
  58. 0
    31 August 2024 09: 43
    The photo of the Su-34 is killer in its madness: the super-expensive plane is used to transport ordinary cast iron!!!
  59. 0
    31 August 2024 13: 35
    Quote: Vitov
    A light strategic bomber should be developed on the basis of the Su-34 instead of the failed and useless monster PAK-DA.

    Based on the Su-57 in the Su-34 configuration with an internal bomb bay.
  60. +1
    31 August 2024 16: 35
    If you look back in history, the entire history of aviation is a path to a universal aircraft. We will not take into account the truly universal airplanes of the First World War, which were fighters, reconnaissance aircraft, and bombers. And only in the second phase did dedicated bombers begin to appear.


    It would be useful for the author to stop filling his head with articles from Popular Mechanics and BBC films. And to study history in the real way. So as not to formulate absurd profound statements at the level of kindergarten.
    And it is also useful to know the history of YOUR Motherland, and not to lock yourself in the swamp of Western Europe. Otherwise, you might suddenly decide that no one in the world except Europe and the USA was engaged in combat aircraft.
    But if you step away from the wall and look around, you will suddenly find that world aviation has NEVER experienced ANY craving for universalism. And the classes of aircraft diverged fundamentally and immediately. The multi-engine bombers of Sikorsky and Tupolev are in no way close to Polikarpov's fighters. And the suspension of bombs under fighters did not begin with the American Thunderbolts. Bombs were routinely suspended under the I-16 even BEFORE the start of WWII.
    Even if we take the real attempts to create the "universal" Pe-2 or the "Ivanov" project, it is ALWAYS something special with the possibility additional equipment or adaptations to something secondary. The fighter was adapted for attack or reconnaissance, the high-altitude fighter was converted into a bomber. BUT never such machines fully retained the original properties and acquired new ones. Neither here nor in the West. The fighter could drop bombs, but did not have a full-fledged bomb sight, nor did it have the armor inherent in an attack aircraft.
    In his article, the author absurdly narrowed the scope of combat aviation to actions on the front line and came to the conclusion that "everything is crap except bees". :) But even now, when it seems like everyone can do everything, a fighter-bomber is inferior in bombing capabilities even to a bomber-fighter. And a station wagon like the F-35 is inferior to everyone.
    1. 0
      1 September 2024 17: 07
      But even now, when it seems like everyone can do everything, a fighter-bomber is inferior in bombing capabilities even to a bomber-fighter.

      Who (in its class) does the F-15EX lose to? "Who's who" there? Who's the fighter-bomber, and who's the bomber-fighter? laughing
      And a station wagon like the F-35 loses to everyone.

      This is a lie. It can only lose to the F-22...
  61. +1
    31 August 2024 23: 42
    Quote: Bad_gr
    I'm not even talking about unpaved airfields, which are not a problem for the Su-34.

    Please send us proof of use on this surface...We are waiting.
  62. +1
    1 September 2024 05: 26
    Quote: Bad_gr
    I know for sure that we are superior to the Americans in electronic warfare, since at one time they did not attach importance to this area and therefore fell behind.

    Complete nonsense. We are irretrievably behind in specialized electronic warfare aircraft alone. We practically don't have them as a class, except for a few Soviet developments.
  63. +1
    1 September 2024 16: 22
    How many times can I explain it? The task of the "strategists" at the X hour is to take off and that's it...!!! Silo launchers can be destroyed before launch, but try to hit the "strategist" in the air behind the echeloned air defense. Then... he reached the launch point... "shot"... and... history began anew with primitive society....
  64. +1
    1 September 2024 17: 21
    Well, I don't know about the fact that the Tu-95 and Tu-160 are not used. Who is it that flies very heavy aircraft overhead with enviable regularity from the nearby airfield across the river?
  65. 0
    2 September 2024 22: 17
    The author is another armchair expert. Apparently, before returning to school, he decided to issue an ANALYTICAL article, which in fact is just a set of words, making no sense. This article does not contain any concept of using aviation, and this determines what types of aircraft and in what quantities are ordered for the country's Air Force. The author completely lacks even an understanding of stealth and versatility. In general, author, congratulations on the beginning of the school year! Go do your homework.
  66. 0
    2 September 2024 22: 17
    The author is another armchair expert. Apparently, before returning to school, he decided to issue an ANALYTICAL article, which in fact is just a set of words, making no sense. This article does not contain any concept of using aviation, and this determines what types of aircraft and in what quantities are ordered for the country's Air Force. The author completely lacks even an understanding of stealth and versatility. In general, author, congratulations on the beginning of the school year! Go do your homework.
  67. 0
    8 September 2024 16: 36
    Quote: RondelR
    The overgrown goose is at least the size of an airborne radar.

    Did Sodovyevskabeeva tell you this?
  68. 0
    13 September 2024 21: 41
    Quote: Not the fighter
    In the end, the example of the European Air Force is indicative: you can have two or three universal aircraft for all occasions and fight successfully. Libya, Iraq, Syria have shown this.

    A generalist is always worse than a specialist. Europeans fought only in colonial wars.

    Where did the Su27s fight before 2022?