Unaffected by electronic warfare: FPV drones controlled and powered via fiber optics and wires

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Unaffected by electronic warfare: FPV drones controlled and powered via fiber optics and wires


Confrontation between FPV and electronic warfare


It is difficult to overestimate the impact that FPV-drones on the battlefield. Even though a number of military experts believe that in the near future the importance of FPV drones will decrease; there are no serious prerequisites for this, we can assume that we are only at the beginning of the development of this type of weapons.



Of course, “action gives rise to reaction,” and there are two ways to counteract FPV drones: their direct destruction, for example, with shotguns, or suppression using electronic warfare (EW).

With shotguns, everything is clear - here everything depends on the training and attentiveness of the fighters, but shotguns are difficult to cope with massive raids by FPV drones. It is only worth noting that primary detection of UAVs, including FPV drones, can be carried out by drone detectors by a characteristic radio signal, which allows fighters to prepare for an attack in advance.


Portable Drone Detector

In turn, there is an invisible war between manufacturers of electronic warfare equipment and manufacturers of FPV drones - the former are looking for ways to jam the control frequencies and video signal transmission of FPV drones, the latter are looking for ways to increase the noise immunity of FPV drones - using non-standard frequencies, installing directional antennas.

NSH


Recently appeared in open sources news on conducting tests in Ukraine of a promising German unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) HCX from the company HIGNSAT with control via a fiber optic cable. It is clear that such a UAV is absolutely not susceptible to the effects of electronic warfare; in addition, it cannot be detected by a UAV detector due to the lack of radio control signals and video transmission.


UAV NSKh - the coil and optical fiber are visible from behind the UAV

The flight range of the NSKh UAV reaches twenty kilometers, the optical fiber is quite strong - the drone can fly over rough terrain, water obstacles, trees, and buildings. If tests are successfully completed in Ukraine, NISNSAT and its partners plan to produce three thousand NSKh UAVs per month.

In fact, the use of fiber optics for munitions control is nothing new - Israel has long used fiber optic control in some modifications of the anti-tank rocket complex (ATGM) Spike ("Spike"). Information appeared in open sources about the use in the SVO zone of the North Korean self-propelled ATGM (SPTGK) "Pulse-4" with control of the anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) via optical fiber.


ATGM from Spike ATGM

Hypothetically, both Ukraine and Russia are developing UAVs controlled by fiber optics; also, presumably, there is (or previously existed) a problem in that we do not have our own production of fiber optics of the required strength.


North Korean SPTRK "Pulse-4"

However, the possibility of creating “tethered” drones is not limited to optical fiber alone. For example, the Kalashnikov concern of the Rostec state corporation announced a “quasi-mast” UAV with power and wire control. Previously we looked at the possibility of using UAVs with power and wired control as an element of the territorial air defense system (T-air defense).


Equipment lifting system "Quazimast" of the Kalashnikov concern of the state corporation ROSTECH

Returning to the German NSKh UAV - most likely, it will initially be used for reconnaissance purposes, however, the planned production volume of three thousand units per month suggests that the NSKh UAVs will be used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) and as kamikaze UAVs, that is, they will become the equivalent FPV drones.

FPV drones “on a leash”


The concept of an FPV drone with power and wired control was considered by the author a little over six months ago. At that time, it was decided not to publish material on this topic in order not to give the enemy food for thought; now, judging by the news, this no longer matters.

Information about the possibility and feasibility of creating FRU drones with power supply and control over wires was sent to a number of Russian manufacturers of FPV drones, including indicating one specific cable produced by Russian industry and potentially suitable for solving this problem.


Unknown FPV drone with fiber optic control

However, at that time, Russian manufacturers were not interested in the creation of FRU drones of this type - they prefer to combat the effects of electronic warfare by using non-standard control frequencies, in fact, the enemy is doing the same for now. Representatives of one manufacturer even suggested that the author was trying to sell them this cable...

Judging by open data, the effectiveness of electronic warfare equipment on the line of combat contact (LBC) has increased significantly. According to military correspondents, the enemy even has some superiority in terms of electronic warfare equipment that counters FPV drones. At the same time, information appears about the beginning of mass production of fairly advanced Russian electronic warfare systems, which should soon go to the troops.

Let’s assume that at some point the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the Ukrainian Armed Forces will have a certain parity in terms of electronic warfare equipment capable of fighting FPV drones. In this case, the advantage will be given to those who have more UAVs, including FPV drones that are not exposed to electronic warfare.

Now, apparently, in the near future the Armed Forces of Ukraine will have UAVs, including kamikaze UAVs, controlled by fiber optics, as a result of which the enemy will have drones that are not susceptible to electronic warfare.

The question is, will something similar appear here, and if so, when?

Russian manufacturers of FPV drones can be understood - they are trying to maximally increase the production of serial products, whenever possible ensuring their refinement and modernization with little cost. At the same time, if the effectiveness of electronic warfare systems really increases significantly, then all these measures may not be enough, and something fundamentally new will have to be done.

What if out of ten FPV drones produced, nine are suppressed by electronic warfare? What then is the point of producing a million of these FPV drones per year? Only for nine hundred thousand of them to crash to the ground before reaching their target?


Ukrainian electronic warfare complex "Bukovel-AD"

Based on the above, we can say with a high degree of confidence that we need to develop FPV drones controlled by wire and/or fiber optic cable.

Wires or fiber optics?


Which is better?

This is largely a controversial issue.

Firstly, it is necessary to understand whether optical fiber of the required strength and weight-size characteristics is produced in Russia (it will be of no use if it is strong, but has a diameter of a centimeter and weighs one hundred kilograms per kilometer), and if it is not produced, then we can Can we purchase it in commercial quantities?

It is impossible to provide power to a drone via optical fiber; accordingly, the mass of the fiber-optic reel will be added to the mass of the batteries and the weight of the drone’s payload.

However, optical fiber can transmit a signal without delay and without loss of quality over a distance of several tens of kilometers, while by wire data can be transmitted over a distance of no more than several hundred meters, however, we are talking about heavy data, for example, control commands were successfully transmitted from the launcher (PU) ATGM on ATGM at a distance of up to four kilometers.

To what distance and with what delay can a compressed video image from an FPV drone and control commands be transmitted to an FPV drone is an open question. If at least three to five kilometers, then such a solution has a right to exist.

For example, to operate at a distance of up to five kilometers, with guaranteed protection from interference, FPV drones with power and wire-based control can be used in hovering mode, providing an aerial view of the battlefield, attacking identified targets in a shallow dive, destroying snipers, operators ATGMs, armored vehicles and any other targets in the affected area.

Most likely, FPV drones with power and control by wire will be very effective as a means Defense, against reconnaissance UAVs and Baba Yaga-type bomber UAVs.


The fiber optic spool on the NSKh UAV is very compact

If the signal transmission distance is significantly shorter, then there is no point in communicating with wires. And for FRU drones designed to operate at a distance of several tens of kilometers, the use of optical fiber will most likely be the only solution at all.

It is possible that it is possible to implement a hybrid solution, when data will be transmitted via optical fiber, and power will be supplied via a wire, which will simultaneously prevent the optical fiber from breaking - everything will depend on the mass of the assembly.

Conclusions


Apparently, the confrontation between electronic warfare and UAVs, including FPV drones, is reaching a new level.

The development and production of FPV drones with control and power supply via fiber optics and/or wires will eliminate the electronic warfare factor in principle.

The enemy is already working in this direction and is presumably close to obtaining a positive result.

It is necessary to take retaliatory measures in order to prevent the enemy from gaining unilateral superiority on the battlefield in terms of FPV drones, as well as in terms of other types of UAVs.
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  1. +6
    9 August 2024 05: 22
    Those in charge need to remember who, at the beginning of the SVO, suggested that they rely not on the oldest and cheapest control systems, but on newer ones. There is an assumption that Ukrainian and Russian electronic warfare systems will not be able to do anything to more expensive devices. And in the future, do not intimidate craftsmen with punishments from the FSB.
    1. +4
      9 August 2024 06: 29
      Quote: gsev
      Those in charge need to remember who, at the beginning of the SVO, suggested that they rely not on the oldest and cheapest control systems, but on newer ones.

      And here, the higher we go, the more irresponsible our people are, and many of them don't care about what's going on. And according to the article, a palliative for power supply could be lifting a drone to a height of, say, a couple of kilometers with power supply via a wire and then disconnecting the power supply wire.
      1. 0
        9 August 2024 09: 13
        This is only ONE direction of development, drones will become more independent and online. Defense against UAVs is also a network that can be used on fiber optic mines-UAVs in the form of a cloud.
      2. 2al
        +1
        15 August 2024 10: 46
        In order to power the engines of a UAV (hexacopter), a current of 1A will be required; for such a current over a distance of even 1 km, a wire with a cross-section of min 8 square meters will be required and its weight will be well over 40 kg.
        An additional battery (resettable) for lifting will have much less weight. A separate topic is an air elevator platform with an internal combustion engine or a balloon.
        1. 0
          15 August 2024 15: 35
          Quote: 2al
          In order to power the engines of a UAV (hexacopter), a current of 1A will be required; for such a current over a distance of even 1 km, a wire with a cross-section of min 8 square meters will be required and its weight will be well over 40 kg.

          Where did you find such figures, both by current and by weight...
          https://bystrokabel.ru/item/psch/psch-0-25
          1. 2al
            0
            15 August 2024 16: 15
            "Recommendations for choosing cable cross-section for 12V supply voltage.
            Calculation of cable cross-section for 12 V power supply.
            Example: 12V power supply and 100W LED lamp. The current flowing through the cable for a given system will be determined by the formula
            I=P/U (1)
            where I is the flowing current, P is the power of the lamp, U is the supply voltage (12V).
            The current calculated using this formula is 8,3 A. Using the permissible voltage reduction for an LED lamp of 0,8 V, we will calculate the wire resistance for a cable length of L=10 m. From formula (2), we will determine the cable resistance for a current of 8,3 A:
            R=∆U/I (2)
            where R is the cable resistance required for a given current I and permissible voltage change ∆U, we obtain R = 0,04 Ohm. To find the minimum cable cross-section Smin you need to use formula (3)
            Smin =ρ*L/R (3),
            where Smin is the minimum cross-sectional area of ​​the conductor, ρ=0,0175 is the resistivity of the copper wire at a temperature of 20 C, R is the resistance value found from formula (2), L is the length of the cable.
            Thus, for cable length L=10 m, Smin=1,94 mm^2. This means that for reliability you need to choose a cable cross-section of 2,5 mm^2."
            1. DO
              0
              16 August 2024 08: 58
              Quote: 2al
              Recommendations for choosing cable cross-section for 12V supply voltage.
              Calculation of cable cross-section for 12 V power supply.

              And now I ask you to calculate the cross-section of the cable cores for a 1200 V supply voltage :)))
              1. 2al
                +1
                16 August 2024 09: 20
                Well, in the given link to the PSH wire 0,25, by the way, to power it you will need two, the resistance is 78 Ohm/km, taking into account the fact that the power supply to the engine on the UAV is from 5-12V DC, depending on the model, then a calculation is needed (taking into account the bias voltage on cable resistance) for Umax =78*2*1A+12V = 168V DC at 1A.
                1. 2al
                  0
                  16 August 2024 09: 35
                  For 4 engines with a power of 12W and a current of 2A each, respectively, Umax = 1050V will be, with this cross-section being 1,5mm2, this is with a small margin of approximately 15%. The weight of copper alone, without insulation and reinforcement, in one such wire 1000m long is ~ 28kg. Of the known materials, only a superconducting alloy cable is acceptable; it will weigh about 4 kg, but only works at -240C.
                2. DO
                  0
                  16 August 2024 09: 42
                  0,25 cores are too massive for this application.
                  From the experience of designing remote power supply systems in fiber-optic lines, the transmitter is a current source with a maximum voltage of up to kilovolts. Up to half of the source voltage settles on the cable cores. Accordingly, a high-voltage DC-DC converter is needed on board the drone. Naturally, there are no ready-made ones; development is needed.
                  1. 0
                    12 October 2024 17: 32
                    Why are you all fixated on a constant supply voltage equal to the motor supply? Alternating current is our everything! What is the cross-section for the power in how many motors with 24 W (12 V * 2 A)? 6 or 8, maximum 200 W + 50 for everything else. Total 250 W, then the cross-section is 0,25 mm for the eyes, this is for 220 V, and if you use more, then the cross-section is even smaller, and if you use not 50 Hz alternating current but more, then here the cross-section can be reduced
            2. 0
              17 August 2024 13: 24
              This is true for low voltages and for long-term operation; for higher voltages it is no longer true, as well as for a short period of operation. So they weren't convinced. And I brought the wire from the bulldozer, just typed in the estimated cross-section, got a link and saw the amperes and mass per km.
              But I don’t insist on using this scheme, because resetting the wire will lead to more hemorrhoids on the ground than resetting the battery.
        2. 0
          15 October 2024 10: 56
          At 1A and 8 mm²? Are you not confusing something?
  2. +5
    9 August 2024 05: 37
    The best remedy against drones is to attack their operators. By any means - from means of volumetric explosion, to a small sapper's paw on the bulldozer. Unlike drones, it is impossible to rivet 3 thousand operators per month.
    1. +1
      10 August 2024 22: 58
      And you first find it. Which is not so simple. This is not a wandering mortar crew or a sniper pair. Although these are not so easy to calculate. Therefore, they just cover the possible location with whatever is possible. It’s even more difficult with operators. Because, unlike snipers and mortar men, they can work through repeaters, even satellite ones.
      Unlike volumetric explosion means, you can easily rivet 3 thousand drones and 5 thousand simple repeaters per month. Not with us. We do not have such technologies.
  3. -1
    9 August 2024 05: 43
    In open areas, this is all clear; how will wire and fiber work in dense forests? won't they get tangled up in branches and other things???
    1. +2
      9 August 2024 06: 01
      How will wire and fiber work in dense forests? won't they get tangled up in branches and other things???
      There is such a rocket, developed jointly by several European companies, called Polyphemus. It is also controlled via fiber optic and has a flight range of about 50 km. How it doesn’t cling to trees and power lines, I don’t know. Probably has a sufficient flight altitude
    2. +6
      9 August 2024 06: 32
      Quote: Nexcom
      In open areas, this is all clear; how will wire and fiber work in dense forests? won't they get tangled up in branches and other things???

      There’s this thing, the wire doesn’t stretch, but unwinds and settles on top, so it doesn’t matter if it gets tangled, the main thing is that it doesn’t break.
      1. 0
        18 August 2024 00: 44
        1 A car went to the site of the KShM. We launched the drone to a height of 1 km. We provided communication with units (for the VHF range, communication is possible within line of sight) and operational monitoring data - a commander from a height of 1 km can see much more than from a hill or knoll. In this case, if such a drone is detected, they will most likely attack it. Because the KShM machine does not emit anything (ideally).
        2 The reconnaissance group released such a drone from itself at a distance of 1 km and to a height of 100 m. It receives data from a safe distance. Using the radio bearing using the triangulation method they would have been found very quickly
        There is no need to confuse anything among the trees here. Overall the optics are pretty strong.
    3. 0
      9 August 2024 08: 35
      Quote: Nexcom
      How will wire and fiber work in dense forests? won't they get tangled up in branches and other things???

      One of the options: Tethered copter - "quasi-mast"! Then we "dance" from it... (there may be "nuances")! "Variation" - telescopic tower-manipulator...
  4. +8
    9 August 2024 06: 16
    Firstly, it is necessary to understand whether optical fiber of the required strength and weight and size characteristics is produced in Russia
    It's easy to google:
    The only fiber optic manufacturer in the Russian Federation is the Optical Fiber Systems company in Saransk. It produces telecommunication optical fibers of the G652, G657A1, G657A2, G654 standards, including those with a reduced diameter of 200 microns and 2% stretch. Previously, the plant purchased raw materials from Japan and the Netherlands, but now they purchase from China and India. The company operates on British Nextrom equipment. In short, they are completely import-dependent.
    Who produced optical fiber in the USSR? Let me remind you:
    https://pikabu.ru/story/sovetskiy_svetilnik_fontanfeyerverk_lomo_sv1_9177474
    and was completely independent of both equipment and raw materials. Of course, this was when the association was managed by the former turner Panfilov, but he died in 1994. He was replaced by hacks who ruined the enterprise.
    fiber optics will be of no use if they are strong, but it will be a centimeter in diameter and weighing one hundred kilograms per kilometer. Fiber optics cannot provide power to a drone., accordingly, the mass of the fiber reel will be added to the mass of the batteries and the weight of the payload of the drones.
    Do you want to supply power via cable? Learn physics - current strength in Amperes. Look how many amperes the engines of these drones consume and calculate the cable cross-section that will be needed. Then - yes, you will have a cable as thick as a centimeter and there will still be losses of 20 km.
    1. +1
      9 August 2024 08: 57
      Quote: VPK-65
      Do you want to supply power via cable? Learn physics - current strength in Amperes. Look how many amperes the engines of these drones consume and calculate the cable cross-section that will be needed.

      Power the battery through a converter with a high-frequency variable... From the second battery - "amp" power supply for the engines... In short, you need to add "some" converters to the power supply system...
      1. +3
        9 August 2024 11: 34
        Nobody canceled ZSE. P=V*A is a school physics course, a new one has not yet been invented. If you want to reduce the current, then increase the voltage. Well, converters with an efficiency of 80%. In short, we look at the nameplate of the power supply of the computer from which we write and think.
        Practically. Our receiver consumes 100 watts. This means that we need to transmit 125 watts via cable. If we set the current to 1 A (this means a voltage drop of 1 V for each ohm of cable resistance), then the voltage in the cable is 125 volts minimum. Yes, and do not forget that it is difficult to raise the voltage in the cable above 220V. To operate, the converter needs transistors at a voltage 2,6 times greater than that in the cable, or 1,3 times if we work in a full-wave circuit. In short, we can find 800 transistors a lot and cheaply, but more is a problem.
        1. 0
          9 August 2024 15: 58
          I don’t even want to discuss DC/DC converters. The smallest, but powerful and compact ones are produced only by the Japanese company muRata, and even then in limited quantities:
          https://supereyes.ru/catalog/reguliruemye_moduli_pitaniya_dc_dc_preobrazovateli/murata_rbq_31251_cis2/
          https://supereyes.ru/catalog/reguliruemye_moduli_pitaniya_dc_dc_preobrazovateli/murata_rbq_8_2_45_l48nl2_cis2/
          And yet they are weak for this, besides, it would be necessary to add a powerful diode assembly to rectify the current and complete all this with powerful radiators. I will modestly keep silent about the fact that FPV operators would also have to carry a diesel generator with them. In short, a complete utopia.
          Here, even not all batteries are suitable; only “high-current” ones are suitable, which can deliver the maximum current at the moment, and not just high-capacity batteries. Moreover, look at any video where an FPV is flying (in the corner of the frame) and you will see that the batteries are sagging - they are actually being raped, not all of them would be capable of at least one more flight, but this is not a kamikaze.
          Below are photos of different batteries from drones, look at the very first one at the maximum permissible discharge current of the assembly - 80 amperes, and there are 2-3 of such assemblies per drone.
        2. 0
          9 August 2024 16: 31
          Well, it is not necessary to focus on wired power supply! There are proposals for recharging electric UAVs from power lines, from laser radiation, both "wireless" laser channels and fiber-optic communication lines!
          1. 0
            13 August 2024 12: 09
            Do not charge from laser radiation. If you try to transmit light of such power as to charge a battery through an optical fiber, it will melt and break. If you try to charge with a laser beam from the ground, in this case:
            1.You need a rather bulky unit that you definitely can’t carry on your own - this is, at a minimum, a truck
            2. There is a problem with accurately aiming the “charging” beam at the drone
            3.You run the risk of burning the “charging object” itself with the “charging” beam
            4. Optoelectronic reconnaissance equipment will easily detect your “charging station” (beam scattering has not been canceled, and in dusty and humid conditions it will be even greater), with all the ensuing consequences
            1. 0
              14 August 2024 11: 21
              However, despite your pessimism, "people are busy with this topic"! I have often come across headlines on the Internet like: engineers from technical company N have developed a way to charge UAV batteries with laser radiation via fiber-optic communication lines! Or: we recharge a drone in the air with a laser beam! I was not particularly interested in this, but I think I wrote it down in my "archive" just in case! I can probably "dig" into it...
          2. 0
            13 August 2024 12: 15
            As for charging from power lines, it’s an interesting idea. It’s just not very clear how to do this. The electric field of the power line is clearly not enough for charging. Land the drone on wires and drop the ground cord to the ground? I'm afraid that "catching on to another phase" will be problematic. Another problem is how to charge from a current with a voltage of kilovolts? You can't put a large transformer on a drone. We need some very simple and compact converter. You also need to carefully select the materials of the drone so that they are not pierced by high voltage and do not burn out the electrics and electronics.
            Well, and finally, near the front line, power lines will simply be destroyed.
            Nevertheless, the idea is interesting, and I would discuss it
            1. 0
              14 August 2024 12: 21
              I forgot to say that the mentioned "proposals for charging batteries" apply not only to military applications, but also to the civilian sphere! As for power transmission lines, copters land or hover (on) near the wires, and "dusts" (DST/drones of the aircraft type) are recharged by flying along the wires at a certain close distance! That is, copters "recharge" by contact, and "dusts" - contactless! Transformers may not be "useful" if you try a scheme known in electrical engineering: connecting a "resistor" (insulator, ceramic dielectric) parallel to the phase wire and a compact transformer in series with the dielectric...
              1. 0
                17 August 2024 22: 31
                Airplanes will not charge when flying near wires. It is too difficult to implement and the field strength is insufficient for a stable EMF
                1. +1
                  17 August 2024 23: 34
                  I will repeat myself once again...: I did not go into this topic in detail! I referred to the "proposals" published on the Internet... as well as regarding recharging batteries using laser radiation... both "direct" and via fiber-optic communication lines!
                  P.S. I have previously spoken about the possibility of "rummaging" in my "archive... Unfortunately, I got "busy and forgot"... Most of the time I am at my dacha in the mountains (Internet: sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't), "slaving away"; and the "archive" is on my computer in the city! I appear in the city in fits and starts... but maybe I will still fulfill my intention and give you specific information that I find on the Internet!
                  1. 0
                    18 August 2024 21: 51
                    Nikolaevich I
                    I will be grateful to you! It's always interesting)))
                    1. 0
                      18 August 2024 22: 29
                      NOVOSIBIRSK, July 31 – RIA Novosti. Russian developers have created and brought to market a mobile charging station for drones, which is remotely (that is, with the help of a UAV...) installed directly on the wires of high-voltage power lines, Pavel Kamnev, Commercial Director of the Laboratory of the Future company, told journalists.
                      The “Triangle” development was first presented at the design and educational intensive “Archipelago 2023”, which takes place in Novosibirsk from July 28 to August 7. It is a platform for charging drones on power lines with a voltage of 35-110-222 kilovolts. The system receives the drone with a special capture mechanism and charges it.
                    2. 0
                      18 August 2024 22: 34
                      Engineers from Denmark have developed a quadcopter that can be recharged from power lines. The 4,3-kilogram drone automatically detects the power line wire, flies up to it from below and engages with a gripper, inside of which there is a split-core transformer. It converts the energy in the power line into energy to recharge the drone's battery. A drone equipped with such a charging system will in the future be able to autonomously perform tasks over long distances, including inspecting the condition of power grids.
                    3. 0
                      18 August 2024 22: 38
                      Scientists from Saratov State Technical University named after Gagarin Yu.A. (SSTU) have developed a wireless power transmission system that can be used to charge aerial drones. The Ministry of Education and Science reported this to Gazeta.Ru.

                      The system consists of flat transmitting and receiving electromagnetic coils connected to a current source, a power line, and a receiver in the form of an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), respectively.

                      “If one of the wires of a high-voltage power line is used as a transmitting coil, it can create a large area in which aerial drones with a receiving coil can charge without connecting directly to the network. For example, aircraft-type drones will be able to charge while gliding along power lines, and helicopter-type drones will be able to charge by landing on wires,” Boris Sivyakov, the lead developer of the project, professor of the Department of Electrical Power and Electrical Engineering at SSTU, Doctor of Technical Sciences, explained to Gazeta.Ru.
                      1. 0
                        18 August 2024 22: 42
                        Thanks for the examples, very interesting. Time will show the viability of such solutions. For example, a flying car has not been made for more than 100 years, despite many promises and developments.
                    4. 0
                      18 August 2024 22: 41
                      Next time, recharging drones with laser radiation... hi
                      1. 0
                        18 August 2024 22: 49
                        They wrote about recharging drones with a laser 10 years ago... Somehow there is no practical implementation in sight. There are many problems here. Firstly, the precise focusing of the laser spot is not just on the drone, but on the radiation receiver. Secondly, we doom ourselves to depend on the weather. Thirdly, a laser beam of such power as is necessary for charging could damage the UAV itself. And finally, the efficiency of such a system will be lower than that of a steam locomotive.
                        In short, it’s easier to send a new drone into flight than to fuss with charging.
                        There was a discussion about laser charging via fiber optics. I wrote that this requires such laser power that the optical fiber will simply melt
                      2. 0
                        18 August 2024 23: 17
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        Something is not visible in practical implementation. There are many problems here.

                        And yet...Development of a remote power supply system
                        unmanned aerial vehicles
                        Bogushevskaya V.A., Zayats O.V., Maslyakov Y.N., Matsak I.S., Nikonov A.A., Savelyev V.V.
                        Sheptunov A.A.
                        Abstract
                        Leading high-tech countries are aimed at creating remote control systems
                        wireless power supply for spacecraft and aircraft, various
                        devices, as well as infrastructure facilities. The most promising for aviation and
                        astronautics is the application of wireless electrical transmission technology
                        energy (WEE) laser radiation. The work discusses the features of creating
                        remote power supply systems (RPS) for unmanned aerial vehicles
                        (UAV) based on WTEE technology through a narrow beam
                        monochromatic infrared radiation. The studies have shown
                        prospects for the development and the possibility of its implementation in the near future...
                      3. 0
                        19 August 2024 11: 55
                        Interesting, what year is the dissertation?
                        Don’t think that I’m some kind of critic or troll. I just want real practical results)))
                        I have a "personal pain" - flying cars. I started to take an interest in this topic... about 45 years ago, when I was still a child, I tried to design such devices myself, studied what was emerging, and never saw any breakthroughs. Well, and here are compact personal flying machines that can fly in urban conditions. Just don't suggest killing yourself on multicopters)))
                      4. 0
                        19 August 2024 13: 01
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        There was a discussion about laser charging via fiber optics. I wrote that this requires such laser power that the optical fiber will simply melt

                        Now I can say briefly, because I don’t have much time... 1. There are fiber-optic communication lines, including long-distance ones! 2. Signals via fiber-optic communication lines can be transmitted both by radiation from powerful LEDs and by laser radiation... 3. There is Power over fiber technology, which allows supplying communication devices with power via fiber-optic communication lines by means of laser (or LED) radiation... with reception by photocells! Summary: There is a PoF method for transmitting electricity through fiber optic "wires" using laser(!) radiation!
        3. +2
          9 August 2024 17: 11
          I remember the year 1975, a robot underwater vehicle, working depth 6 km, a winch on the ship, power supply and information retrieval, control goes through wires in a cable cable, cable cable length 10 km. The cable is thin, not load-bearing, the supplied alternating voltage is 1000 volts, the current is up to 100 amperes. Everything worked, it was in the USSR.
        4. 0
          10 August 2024 23: 08
          Yes, and do not forget that it is difficult to raise the voltage in the cable above 220V. To operate, the converter needs transistors at a voltage 2,6 times greater than that in the cable, or 1,3 times if we work in a full-wave circuit. In short, we can find 800 transistors a lot and cheaply, but more is a problem.
          Please, I beg you. Do not write any more about the bridge rectifier or the Hertz circuit. Just for the sake of the memory of the creator of the physics problem book for schoolchildren, Demidovich, and generally wonderful Soviet and Russian physicists. How can I explain this to you? In general, fiber optic cable does not conduct electricity. Neither constant nor variable, not pulsating. Therefore, it often hangs next to high-voltage wires on railway lines.
          Optics are only needed to control the device and they are really cheap. It also allows you to simplify and reduce the cost of the product, because the radio part is not needed. And no electrical power supply via optics.
          1. 0
            17 August 2024 23: 14
            Oh my! Yes, you confused “a fork with a bottle”! belay There was no talk at all about power supply via fiber-optic communication lines! fool The conversation was about the possibility of using electrical wires in drone designs!
            1. 0
              18 August 2024 00: 32
              After the author of the comment gave out the topic out of the blue
              Our receiver consumes 100 watts. This means that we need to transmit 125 watts via cable. If we set the current to 1 A (this means a voltage drop of 1 V for each ohm of cable resistance), then the voltage in the cable is 125 volts minimum.

              all doubts disappeared. The optics will use voltage. And this is not jokes and giggles. We must at least somehow fight for the good reputation of the Soviet and post-Soviet technical schools.
    2. +1
      9 August 2024 13: 28
      Quote: VPK-65
      It's easy to Google

      It's not that simple. You need to google Chinese manufacturers. Or will you imagine that Russia is the leader in the production of microprocessors and lithium-polymer batteries?
      In the Russian Defense Ministry, more than a dozen generals have already been arrested for embezzlement. And in China they would have been shot long ago along with their relatives. Therefore, it is not surprising that high-tech import substitution will remain on paper for a long time.
      1. -1
        9 August 2024 15: 35
        Quote: Vitaly_pvo
        Or will you make something up? Is Russia a leader in the production of microprocessors and lithium-polymer batteries?
        I think that you are an inadequate person who cannot read. You need to google: "Optical fiber production in Russia"Where did you find processors with batteries???
    3. 0
      9 August 2024 21: 15
      Quote: VPK-65
      The only fiber optic manufacturer in the Russian Federation is the Optical Fiber Systems company in Saransk.

      As far as I remember, there was once a fiber optic plant in Tomsk.
    4. 0
      13 August 2024 14: 15
      It's easy to google:

      It's easy to Google. AND THIS IS A LIE
      There are about a dozen factories in the Russian Federation that produce optical fiber.
      For example.
      https://www.tadviser.ru/index.php/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B1

      This is a problem of our time, when people who are not at all in the subject after Googling begin to consider themselves experts.
  5. +1
    9 August 2024 07: 02
    Suppression of such drones will be based on damage to optical means and control units. To suppress optical means, a laser is needed to destroy the electronic filling of the microwave. To detect OLS.
    1. 0
      25 August 2024 22: 40
      That's right. You can add the good old material way. You can shoot or shoot down another drone. All that remains is to discover it. Optics makes this very difficult, because you just have to search visually, but at an altitude of 200 m, such devices are already hard to see and hear. Or catch noise or radiation from running engines. You can try to visually see the optics. In general, everything is quite complicated technically.
  6. +6
    9 August 2024 07: 05
    At first, to the shouts of Chubais, they shouted: “We’ll buy everything!” They ruined everything, but still haven’t stolen it. And now they say in a nasal voice: “What can we do?” .Stalin., and L.P. Beria. Now everyone understands why the enemies of the people were imprisoned, and some of the greyhounds on the tower. And now it’s a bardacillo. No one is responsible for anything. They only change places. Sometimes those who were taken are not According to the rank, they throw people into the food court, so that later they can release them on parole. And from above, from the divine throne, there is complete silence or nothing to talk about.
  7. +1
    9 August 2024 07: 42
    These are the first steps in the arms race. Next, such drones will learn to carry a retinue with them over distances of kilometers, using directional LiFi to control the swarm. The use of hydrogen fuel will increase the penetration distance, and AI with terrain orientation will return the bird to the launch zone if the cable breaks.
    1. +1
      9 August 2024 08: 55
      But then drones will also appear to service such drones, say with wireless charging, so that the master drone can be on duty around the clock.
    2. +1
      9 August 2024 22: 27
      Quote: alpet
      These are the first steps in the arms race. Next.
      Further...
      Need to conquer AIR DOMINATION - destroy bottlenecks on the supply route (for example BRIDGES) of the Ukrainian Armed Forces front - all drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are brought from abroad - having cut the supply routes, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be left without drones, even with optical fiber, even with a wire.
      Targeted destruction of the TCC (together with the ludolovs) - no TCC - no replenishment at the front of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
      hi
      1. +1
        10 August 2024 00: 17
        There are simpler options - sabotage at a couple of key factories in Asia and no one will have drones for several months. The option is more expensive - buy all the drones that are in China, I can write about a dozen names, who should have dump trucks of money from the state defense order at home, probably enough for drones worth twenty million
        1. 0
          13 August 2024 12: 20
          alexoff
          Or maybe it’s easier to buy the Chinese who make this whole zoo?
          1. 0
            13 August 2024 14: 32
            This, of course, is more effective, but I think the West will be indignant, and the Chinese are afraid of the West
            1. 0
              13 August 2024 14: 33
              Those who make drones are only afraid of losing money. No need to speak for all Chinese))
              1. 0
                13 August 2024 14: 54
                So they are afraid that their ability to use this money in the West will be limited. It’s like ours there - the owners of these factories have children in Cambridge, a house in Florida, and so on. Selling a wagon of drones is one thing, but the entire plant is a very big deal.
    3. 0
      13 August 2024 12: 19
      the alps
      I will have a bunch of smoke flares and other simple and cheap means to jam all these lay-fis and other unearthly beauty
  8. -4
    9 August 2024 07: 53
    Dead end branch of drone development. Again, from a cheap means of war for those who have benra and artillery, they make expensive crap. Immediately there will be a limitation on speed, quantity, application, and weather conditions (water, snow, low temperatures).
    1. 0
      9 August 2024 15: 25
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      Dead end branch of drone development..

      Their only promising use is observation from high altitudes. Too small to be seen and reached there, and not afraid of electronic warfare. If there were such people above Sudzha, maybe. and the sky would not be blown away from them. But the optical fiber will most likely be a consumable item: one start - one coil out.
  9. 0
    9 August 2024 08: 10
    what nonsense, if you controlled the FPV, then you know what somersaults you sometimes have to do, fly between trees, etc., circle, it will chop with its own propellers, nothing will remain of any fiber optic.
    The best solution is to add cheap AI-powered boards, similar to Raspberry, to the radar zone (there are much more powerful ones but in the same form factor)
    1. +1
      9 August 2024 08: 44
      Quote: Last centurion
      there is much more powerful but in the same form factor
      We've got a machine vision and target acquisition board with dimensions of 40x40mm, they write that our next boards will be 30x30mm.
      https://t.me/serhii_flash/2641
    2. +1
      9 August 2024 08: 51
      Well, not everywhere there are trees and buildings, for example, Zaporozhye has fields and steppes almost everywhere, and rare forest plantations between them, an excellent place for such drones.
      1. 0
        10 August 2024 00: 18
        And no one hangs out in the fields, only around the plantings
    3. 0
      9 August 2024 21: 18
      Quote: Last centurion
      What nonsense, if you controlled FPV, then you know what somersaults you sometimes need to do, fly between trees, etc., turn in circles, chop it with your own screws, there will be nothing left of any optical fiber.

      Somersaults in the “ace” mode are achieved when the operator’s hands are shaking, which is not surprising. Maviki rarely demonstrates somersaults.
    4. +1
      10 August 2024 23: 14
      It could be a repeater drone, or a reconnaissance drone. What kind of equipment do you have in your troops for aerial reconnaissance from an altitude of a couple of kilometers? So there may still be several kilometers hidden along the ground. Unlike vole, single-mode optics allows transmission over kilometers at a speed of 1 Gb/s.
  10. 0
    9 August 2024 09: 02
    It turns out that whether you like it or not, you’ll have to do something like a mini-Alabuga. It’s very difficult to protect drones from it with any kind of control...
  11. +1
    9 August 2024 09: 46
    This technology is probably being implemented by manufacturers of fiber optic cables. Just look at how many cables will be needed for all these thousands of drones! If you consider that all these cables are disposable, then the whole of Ukraine will be entangled in cables like a web.
  12. 0
    9 August 2024 09: 49
    if there is one drone operating at the front, then OK.
    What if there are hundreds or thousands of them like now?
    Won't all these threads get tangled? ::)
  13. 0
    9 August 2024 11: 25
    Regarding the wires, please note.
    According to the standard, the maximum length of a twisted pair wire is 100 meters. In practice, everything greatly depends on the devices at both ends of the cable and on the quality of the cable itself. In general, it is better not to lay more than 80 meters.
    It’s easier with a phone, the same “twisted pair” cable there for almost a kilometer with 8-10 twists works fine.
    1. +1
      10 August 2024 23: 18
      In general, for Ethernet it may be a little more. Only the article is about optics. How many kilometers can a single-mode hair with a Gaussian profile retract? I remember a simple multimode was thrown because the copper coil did not extend in length. The only problem is with the welding machine. We didn’t have one, but a specialist came for money and did everything. In general, providers have solved this problem a long time ago. Give them free rein, they would scatter optics throughout the apartments
      1. 0
        13 August 2024 12: 24
        barbos
        Optics are already being scattered around apartments in some places. In my apartment building on the outskirts of the city, optics have already been installed in all 500 apartments
        1. +1
          16 August 2024 17: 42
          Optics (Internet) is now available in villages too.
          1. 0
            17 August 2024 22: 33
            Evgeny_4
            Yes, but how much does this optics cost? They brought me into my apartment for free
  14. -3
    9 August 2024 12: 40
    This is all yesterday.
    All fpv drones should (and soon will) use only trained neural networks to find a target and approach it.
    The drones will be deployed to a given area, and if the signal is lost (electronic warfare attack), they will go out in a free search for the target and its subsequent destruction.
    30% of boat-loading operations when identifying a target will be quite acceptable. The cost of such a unit will increase the cost of the drone by only 50-100 dollars. The main difficulty is training the network, but it still needs to be trained.
    All this wire control is yesterday.
    It’s not even worth wasting specialists’ time testing such mechanics.
    If we are talking about surveillance drones, then most likely there will be a network of drones with communication via a laser channel. The Konda part of the Drones is used as signal receivers and transmitters.
    1. 0
      9 August 2024 16: 35
      “I don’t know what weapons will be used in the Third World War, but the Fourth World War will be fought with sticks and stones.” © Albert Einstein.
      1. -1
        9 August 2024 20: 09
        Well, in the Moscow Region it seems that admirers of Einstein’s Albertushki are entrenched tightly.
    2. DO
      0
      16 August 2024 09: 29
      Quote: Stan017
      This is all yesterday.
      All fpv drones should (and soon will) use only trained neural networks to find a target and approach it.

      You go to extremes.
      Yes, there is a niche for autonomous kamikaze drones that can be delivered by external means behind enemy lines at any distance of hundreds and thousands of kilometers.
      This article is about tethered drones controlled by an operator. Video and control, of course, are transmitted over a single strand of optical fiber reinforced with kelp braid, with frequency separation of transmission directions. For 10 km, naturally, these are battery-powered drones. For a more modest length of cable with thin copper conductors, a high voltage power supply will be required, and corresponding high-voltage DC-DC converters on the ground and on board the drone.
  15. +1
    9 August 2024 21: 30
    The article is interesting, but the author has little knowledge of the topic. The other day I came across information from other sources.
    The flight range of the NSKh UAV reaches twenty kilometers, the optical fiber is quite strong - the drone can fly over rough terrain, water obstacles, trees, and buildings.

    Not exactly. The drone from NISNSAT carries a spool of cable 10 km long and weighing 1.3 kg. By the way, the length is very accurately indicated in the photo in the article - 10,813 km. The author should have looked at the photos he himself posts. wink
    The cable is not tensioned but released, i.e. laid out on the ground as it flies. Hence, the drone has vertical limitations, but there is no extra weight.
    Returning to the German NSKh UAV - most likely, it will initially be used for reconnaissance purposes,

    It is unlikely that the dropped cable lies on the ground and waits for the harp to run over it. wassat
    This solution is optimal for a one-way attack drone. The coil weight of 1.3 kg is quite acceptable, most of our FPV drones will drag it away without much reduction in the warhead weight. Electronic warfare is useless, only to shoot it down. An inexpensive but extremely dangerous solution.
  16. 0
    10 August 2024 03: 29
    Apparently, the confrontation between electronic warfare and UAVs, including FPV drones, is reaching a new level.


    It looks like the production of scissors will increase sharply in the near future.
  17. 0
    10 August 2024 09: 07
    The idea is so-so. Wires/fiber optics are still better suited for ATGMs.
    For drones, especially FPV - not so much. After all, such drones often use stealth when approaching - among trees, buildings, etc., maneuvering among obstacles, which makes them difficult to detect and destroy. The cable/fiber will restrict maneuverability and can easily become tangled or snagged.
    An enemy soldier can simply detect and cut the wire/fiber with a suitable tapping tool.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. +1
    10 August 2024 12: 56
    Dubious idea. For me, control from satellites is also more promising. And the optical fiber is in the direction of anti-tank guns and other kamikaze drones.
    1. 0
      10 August 2024 18: 23
      Look for yourself, the resolution from satellites is so-so, it’s good if they see the column, and in general, satellites are not our strong point. As far as I understand, we are diversifying communications - Sputnik, Ionosphere, Cellular, Cable.
      1. 0
        11 August 2024 14: 40
        What does satellite resolution have to do with this? I was talking about management.
  20. 0
    10 August 2024 14: 58
    we need a connection of concepts. An unmanned drone is a high-mass attack aircraft that flies far and fast and has a generator on board to power a powerful transmitter and carries several attack drones controlled by fiber optics.
  21. +1
    10 August 2024 15: 51
    We need loitering scissors with artificial intelligence for circumcision
    such threads.
  22. 0
    10 August 2024 17: 49
    I don’t know, there is also, in principle, a superconductor. Not the one that is being developed by metal technologists, but the one that is made from the material of an ordinary conductor, but is combined in a different way - a capacitor, any superconductor is a capacitor, usually a capacitor in the form of two plates that love each other so much that they don’t give any fields, this can also be organized in the wire.
    1. 0
      10 August 2024 18: 18
      The wire could be a capacitor (I’m not posting this out of weakness, I just don’t trust it).
  23. 0
    10 August 2024 18: 11
    To be honest, they will decide differently, radio communications have not exhausted themselves, there are many possibilities. They can make directional smart reception and transmission, four interferometers, four receivers, like in a simple radio telescope, will hold their signal. But to give this signal, you need a mast. They don't hide anything about this.
  24. 0
    10 August 2024 23: 26
    We have several fundamental problems. Although optics are excellent as a communication line and we could develop it.
    1 How many factories do we have that produce optical fiber? How wide is the range of products, and how high is it?
    2 Do we produce equipment for welding and repairing optical communication lines?
    3 Do we produce equipment for diagnosing and configuring optical communication lines? There are some nuances there.
    4 Do we produce media converters? Because not all computers, and especially not all phones, have optical inputs.
    5 what about the drones themselves?
  25. 0
    2 September 2024 16: 37
    In principle, the problem of recharging can be solved with the help of, for example, gegsakopters, which will act as carriers of additional batteries. This is simpler and cheaper than developing an ultra-light power cable.
  26. 0
    14 October 2024 09: 59
    The idea works, but you need to invest in AI so that the drone itself can search for targets, identify them and attack them.