Healthy again

Healthy again

I found an announcement here on the Internet: at the Moscow State University of Construction, the Council of the Federation will hold parliamentary hearings on the subject of state policy on the preparation of engineering and technical personnel. At first I thought - I'll go, I will listen. I clearly understand: the topic is very important, especially in the field of training specialists for the defense industry. Yes, and I myself graduated from MGSU, at least I will visit my alma mater. But later decided - I will not go. Because I am sure: I will not hear anything new for myself.

How many times over the past many years have I read vigorous reports on meetings devoted to these issues at the highest level, or have myself attended meetings of this kind and heard that the most important investments in the modernization process announced in the country are investments in human capital, in improving the educational process, bringing it to modern standards. But the words, from whatever high tribunes they were not spoken, for some reason disagree with the case. I say this with full awareness of responsibility for my words, I speak as a teacher who knows the problems of education from the inside.

What can I hear again at these parliamentary hearings? Reports of representatives of ministries about how many billions are allocated to support individual educational programs in the training of engineering and technical personnel and, at the same time, complaining officials that about half of graduates do not go to work in the specialty, and staff shortages are the main challenge to the domestic economy? Tearful speeches of rectors of universities about that, the competition for engineering specialties is minimal, that training centers do not have enough money to organize the educational process, update the material and technical base, and the industry and business circles do not show interest in graduates of their educational institutions? What is new here; interested people have been constantly talking about it all these past years.

I can add to this myself that in recent Soviet times the profession of an engineer did not shine with particular prestige, and even today it has completely stopped attracting the mass interest of young people. It is clear why: and then and now the whole thing is in earnings. In Soviet times, a simple worker could earn more than any engineer, this was the ideological policy of the state. And now, when ideology is absent and all the needs are regulated by the market, the young specialist, a graduate of a technical university, is not simply demanded by industry or business, as he is prepared outright badly, at the production level, at the end of the last century, which does not meet modern requirements. In the real sector of the economy, this freshly baked specialist is uncompetitive and therefore no one is interested.

I understand why today the federal government so actively undertook to discuss and even try to solve this problem. There is an understanding that someone will have to make a technological breakthrough in the context of the declared modernization of the country in parallel with joining the WTO. And all this, I stress, in the face of a recognized shortage of personnel in the engineering and technical sphere. Difficult task, and even for solving defense issues difficult in twins. Where to get qualified specialists for the military industrial complex, if they are not enough for civilian industry? In my understanding, the best of the best should work in the defense industry. In our current case, we will have to choose the best of the worst. A joyless and hopeless choice.

In such a situation, I could understand the rectors of technical universities, if they themselves, without waiting for instructions from above, took up the modernization of the educational process, trying to bring it as close as possible not even to today's needs, but looking at the future, having developed at least the same qualifications standards for future engineering and technical specialists, which is a lot and boring talk about now. But instead, I hear completely different sentences, in my opinion, having nothing to do with the learning process.

Last week, a group of rectors offered to introduce for students of those universities, where there is a military department, the passage of military service in the army for three months a year during the period of study. I have nothing against urgent service, I myself served an “urgent” two years and I think that there is no better life for a young man. But I do not understand that the rector's initiative will give both the army and the students. In what capacity will they come to the troops and for what? If the officers - this is complete nonsense, because students are not prepared for this, especially younger students. If the excursionists, in order to familiarize themselves with samples of military equipment, are also absurd: you do not need to serve for this, it is enough just to visit a military unit without interrupting the training process. For army units, these people will also become a problem. They need to be settled somewhere: it is simply risky to place the three-month “conscripts” in the same barracks with the others, and it is impossible to turn them on in any combat crew - after three months each such fighter will have to be replaced and re-trained. Who needs such a leapfrog!

And, finally, what is the point of the military department at the institute, which exists just to train worthy military specialists who benefit their homeland. And if there is a need for such, then they should be called upon after graduation from the university, but by an officer who thoroughly knows his specialty.

It seems to me that such proposals come from hopelessness, from a misunderstanding of where to go next, what decisions to take and what, by working them out, be guided. Sending young people to the barracks is the simplest thing that could have been thought out and it is much more difficult to prepare them of first-class, modern specialists that the country needs.
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  1. Son
    26 February 2013 09: 35
    New - forgotten old ...
  2. +6
    26 February 2013 09: 37
    An article on the topic of the day. I agree with the author, I would also add that in addition to tech. specialties in universities the government needs to pay attention to tech. network of technical schools and colleges, and most importantly, to finally establish a connection between graduates and real production.
    1. +5
      26 February 2013 11: 05
      Quote: Predator-74
      the government needs to pay attention to tech. networks of technical schools and schools

      universal turners (milling machines) are not that normal, even if they really didn’t reach the 3rd category at all, sensible experienced men are all attached and you won’t be lured to earn them, the same with repairmen, drivemen. There is no one to work ............... am
      1. +2
        26 February 2013 12: 32
        How nobody? Economists and lawyers, they probably more than necessary at times and
        I personally observe this very often lately. Here are the consequences of reforms in the education system.
    2. S_mirnov
      26 February 2013 16: 14
      "to finally establish a connection between graduates and real production." - Duc of real production that one, two and miscalculated. Only shopping centers and churches are being built. And not there, not there, engineers are not needed! We reduce universities - we save budget money (the inefficiency of the state apparatus is not so noticeable), we reduce the number of educated citizens - we get a crowd of consumers!
      It all fits together!
    3. +2
      26 February 2013 19: 34
      I completely agree with you. We, who studied and graduated from technical schools and institutes, were distributed in Soviet times. Of course, now and then it is incorrect to compare, but it can be done easier. Take for example the industry in which I work: heavy engineering. we have a university in the city that graduates specialists in our profile, but no one wants to go to the factory. They get a diploma and, at best, go on to become another manager at some company selling something. The worst thing is that 25 percent studied in budget places. It turns out that the state taught them by profession, and they did not care. He can do this: to take on budget places only those who, even before entering the university, will sign a contract with the enterprise, obliging them to work at least five years on it. So it will be more honest than letting out a specialist in metalworking or metallurgy who will work in a fence-building company.
      1. +1
        26 February 2013 23: 42
        Petty Officer, we had contracts with the enterprise in Kazakhstan, graduates throw it, then they pay through the court according to the court’s decision a penny a year. And the quality of training is such that in a year the company itself renounces the services of a young specialist. In the end, enterprises simply do not conclude contracts, because K. For the money paid they don’t get what they need. It’s easier to look for a ready-made specialist with work experience on the labor market - you’ll find something.
        It is necessary to somehow bind so that the profits of enterprises affect the income of the university, and vice versa. That universities would receive some part of the profit from the income that specialists bring to the enterprise prepared by this university.
  3. +14
    26 February 2013 09: 39
    As soon as the word “PAID” appeared, the word “EDUCATION” disappeared ... Especially in Moscow universities ... Once I myself was looking for construction engineers to work ... I had seen enough diplomas ... but I had to take a specialist from Kursk ...
    1. Kaa
      26 February 2013 10: 17
      Quote: domokl
      As soon as the word PAID appeared, the word EDUCATION disappeared

      I’m not a snob, but, for example, I don’t turn to graduation doctors after 1991. Health (albeit with defects) is better. than his complete finishing. From that time, all kinds of ... contract soldiers ... went further than a bribe for the test-examination - and emptiness in the head, combined with hands from a bad place. Even in the West they are well aware of this. Friends - a married couple of doctors - went to work in the Czech Republic. He was taken on the move, she was offered a year to learn. The university graduated from the same, with a difference of two years. The husband has a Soviet diploma, and the wife has Ukrainian ....
      1. +5
        26 February 2013 12: 08
        Hee hee ...
        in Soviet times, there was so much scream — our diplomas were not in demand abroad.
        This was one of the reasons - the reform of education. The introduction of this system..bolonevoy ..
        So what?
        The specialists of the Soviet training were lured there. They themselves remained with the Bologna system. As shorter lapdogs - beautiful, all in ruffles - and the same blondes.
        So what? Daughter .. additionally studied in Germany
        Because .. diplomas of the Russian sample are not in demand !!!

        Question - N A X R E N A? destroyed the world's best education system.
        Who will answer? And when?
        1. Son
          26 February 2013 17: 50
          "Who will answer? And when?"

          I would like to live ...
  4. +6
    26 February 2013 09: 41
    And what else could we get when the Fursenks and Serdyukovs did not do anything good for so many years, but simply brazenly ruined the army and education?
  5. not good
    26 February 2013 09: 43
    It seems that what is happening in the country is understood only by the authorities, the higher they sit, the clearer. The lack of understanding of what is happening in the country by the common population is only multiplying and it looks like the accumulation of a critical mass of this lack of understanding will only accelerate. And you can shout as much as you like: "The machinist! Ahead the rail has burst ..." It looks like "cosmonauts"
  6. +15
    26 February 2013 09: 47
    Where to get qualified specialists for the military-industrial complex, if they are not enough for the civilian industry?

    In fact, we do not have industry either. Unfortunately ... With engineers in general - an ambush ... Only lawyers, economists. Some learn to competently steal. Others, in order to competently smear off the former before the law. That's the whole industry with the economy ...
    1. +3
      26 February 2013 10: 47
      Quote: IRBIS
      Only lawyers, economists.

      Hello Sasha! What is the most paradoxical 90% of these "professionals" are either unemployed or do not work in their specialty. TV has done its job of showing beautiful and successful request
      1. +3
        26 February 2013 11: 11
        I have one banker (specializing in banking and exchange business) as an assistant all the summer working at a construction site, then I decided to work in my specialty, went into the oil and gas business - a gas station at a gas station !!!! fellow laughing good
      2. Vanek
        26 February 2013 11: 22
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What is the most paradoxical

        I am on the first - Gas-electric welder 4th category. On the second, Economics and Management at the State. The enterprise.

        I work a pancake forwarder. laughing

        All the way.
      3. +2
        26 February 2013 11: 44
        Hello Alexander! The most interesting thing is that none of these unemployed "turn the nuts". Everyone is waiting for the manna from heaven ...
        1. Vanek
          26 February 2013 11: 48
          Quote: IRBIS
          Everyone is waiting for the manna of heaven ...

          It’s better to sit at home than a janitor for 13-15 tyr. work. When you can work for 13-15 and at the same time look for work.

          Alexander hi
      4. +1
        26 February 2013 13: 47
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What is the most paradoxical 90% of these "professionals" are either unemployed or do not work in their specialty.

        So after all, under the USSR there was a state order for specialists, and the obligation to work in their specialty for a certain number of years. AND RIGHT! The state taught at its own expense - work out even a small part! And they were all employed, gained experience! And then the youth had prospects. So the cries began, "Where is freedom and human rights?" Well, we got freedom - to sit without work!
    2. Vanek
      26 February 2013 11: 06
      Quote: IRBIS
      Where to get qualified specialists for the military-industrial complex, if they are not enough for the civilian industry?

      Cancel paid education in universities!

      Who is now at universities? Correctly those who can pay. Mom, dad pays - he (she) is studying. For introductory paid - passed, credit - please - loot. And those who can not pay can not study at a university. He will pass the entrance exam NOT with MONEY, but with his head. But it cannot because further education is paid.

      There are not so many guys with their heads, and they go to vocational school to study. And the wallets, the vast majority and study at universities.

      Cancel paid at the university - and please engineers, those who are with the head. And wallets will go to vocational schools, there are many of them. Hence the locksmith, turners. Since wallet never pass an entrance exam in life in high school.

      In principle, everything is simple, BUT! Salvage rules the ball.
      1. +4
        26 February 2013 11: 50
        I agree! Those who have brains should learn. Money should not determine the ability of a citizen of a country to receive a decent education. Introduce free education in technical universities, but with mandatory subsequent distribution and workout for five years. And who wants to study "elite" professions without having brains - you are welcome for a lot of money!
      2. +1
        26 February 2013 16: 34
        Cancel paid education in universities!

        I completely agree!!! Education should be given to those who are able to absorb knowledge and put them into practice. And today only payment for the diploma, and no more crying
      3. +1
        26 February 2013 19: 14
        Quote: Vanek
        And wallets will go to vocational schools, there are many
        Nope, they will not. They will find another sinecure, but to the machines, for nothing !!!! But we are all wrong in what we say to our children as soon as they start going to school- "Study, otherwise you will be nuts spin at the plant "(there are a lot of options, but the essence is the same) and everyone strives for the child to study, and then not really straining, earning good money ... Well, where do we get engineers or workers?
    3. +3
      26 February 2013 11: 33
      Ambush with highly skilled workers. Turners, toolmakers now in the afternoon with fire you will not find. Yes, and with what the military-industrial complex will lure them. I read job advertisements for a cartridge factory in Tula: they offer 10-12 thousand rubles a month for workers in specialties, and this is if you have at least the 5th category. request
      1. Vanek
        26 February 2013 11: 38
        Quote: ronin
        offer on working specialties 10-12 thousand rubles a month

        This is the trouble.
      2. +2
        26 February 2013 12: 15
        Quote: ronin
        on recruiting for work at the cartridge plant in Tula: they offer 10-12 thousand rubles a month on workers specialties, and this is if you have at least the 5th category.

        About 5th grade: such requirements because the grades are 5-6 for everyone (they gave everyone at the enterprises in order to raise their salaries at least a little), and for skills, knowledge and abilities (according to the requirements of ETKS) 2-3 were cut!

        And about 10-12 thousand rubles: even in our country (the poorest region in the Urals Federal District) there are normal: turner-universals, locksmith-toolmakers, locksmith-repairmen, welders less than 25-30 thousand earn !!!
        PS The key word is "earn" ...
  7. +2
    26 February 2013 09: 50
    "Rectors" decided to earn points? This is unlikely to come out. Too stupid idea.
  8. max-02215
    26 February 2013 10: 23
    In fact, we do not have industry either.

    But, after the "reforms" and education, the same as it is not, what the author writes about, is precisely the fruits of the modern school. The daughter graduated from USPTU, so no one could find a job from both groups in the specialty. Moreover, for 5 years of training, there was no practice, as such, because the remnants of the industry have no desire to educate and train personnel, they need someone ready with work experience, and they will gradually end. It is necessary to revive the vocational school system at the existing enterprises, vocational school-plant-university - a competent specialist engineer
  9. Cpa
    26 February 2013 10: 24
    Why reinvent the wheel, let the teachers begin to learn, improve their qualifications. To teach something new, you need to know this new knowledge. Enterprises, especially with targeted training, can set requirements for graduates, participate in exams. Otherwise, production and universities will be "from different planets."
  10. +2
    26 February 2013 10: 27
    "Where to find qualified specialists for the military-industrial complex, if they are not enough for the civilian industry?"... and what is left of us ... from the industry. What is left of the military-industrial complex beyond the Urals ... crumbs. Everything was dragged to Moscow ... and to some extent we are seeing such a "starfall" in the rocket industry in particular Where new military-industrial complex facilities are located only in the European part of the country, but in Siberia there are resources and personnel ... only who needs them ...
  11. +4
    26 February 2013 10: 33
    I know from my work - there are no personnel! not that it’s not enough, simple operators, no locksmiths! you have to train yourself directly in the workplace.
    I think the enterprises themselves need to maintain technical schools with the subsequent hiring of graduates (something like a long trial period with training). The quality and, most importantly, modern education will be much higher than in independent universities, in which they often teach material 30-50 years ago, in our modern productions both foreign technology and other methods, universities often do not catch up with the development of technology.
    1. +1
      26 February 2013 19: 22
      This is absolutely right !!! A very competent approach. And by the way, they are starting to do so. In my small homeland they restored a huge factory (MIC) and recruit people to train their own specialists. And many began to return to the factory even from Moscow ( it’s a hundred kilometers from us). And people have optimism.
  12. +2
    26 February 2013 10: 43
    Quote: Negoro
    And you can shout as much as you like: "The machinist! Ahead of the rail burst ..." It looks like "cosmonauts"

    It’s well said Andrei, I used to think if they really don’t understand the simple and obvious truths up there, then I understood, but really they don’t understand. They are terribly far from the problems that people face every day, and if suddenly, by chance, they notice this problem, then they solve by the principle of plugging holes in the ship (in the sense of now shut up, and when we get to the base we’ll fix it), only now to the base then you can’t get there.
  13. Larus
    26 February 2013 10: 43
    I was honestly surprised by this author. The smart and trained authorities are not needed, as well as those who can think on their own. Therefore, everything is only in words of concern, but in real life everything will be closed and they will grow up consumers of under-education.
    1. +2
      26 February 2013 12: 00
      Quote: Larus
      The smart and trained ones are not needed for this power, and even those who can think on their own. Therefore, everything is only in words of concern, but in real life they will close everything and will grow up consumers of under-education.

      This is not the case. It just dawned on the authorities that techies needed air, but could do nothing. You can’t give birth to them during a year when a worker has been defamated for the last 25 years.
  14. +2
    26 February 2013 10: 44
    the problem is that education and education are two different things, but in fact you need to remember Soviet practice — study at a university — be kind, work then for about 5 years for the good of your homeland, come from the army — there is an opportunity to go to a factory, unlearn there, work ... it was just a good system that Yeltsin and other ki had cheated !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. Urrry
      26 February 2013 15: 23
      the Soviet system of postgraduate distribution is possible only with the restoration of the entire system of Soviet power :) ... it is impossible to snatch out only "distribution": firstly, enterprises should be obliged to accept graduates - and if the enterprise is non-state and it has private owners who do not want "cats in a poke" "from the outside? How to force? And secondly, in the USSR, a student seemed to "study on credit": he did not pay for free tuition, but later paid for it by "working off according to distribution." Now, if he studied on a paid basis, he somehow already paid for the "product" and does not owe anyone for it. It is unfair to introduce distribution only for state employees: if you get more prosperous and pay for their studies right away, it will again win over those who are poorer and studied on the budget ...
  15. Atlon
    26 February 2013 10: 53
    Before writing an article, it would not hurt the author to go all the same ... And then: I’ll go, I won’t go. What will they tell me? Yes, I already know everything! Not serious, unproven, and stupid. It would be more interesting to read the report on the event, rather than the unfounded insinuations of the author. This is my IMHO.
    1. +2
      26 February 2013 11: 19
      That's exactly what I thought, after reading a couple of sentences. The rest of the text just ran through my eyes. Nothing new. Everything is already known and understandable. but this position of the author is no better than the inaction of the authorities.
  16. +1
    26 February 2013 11: 05
    In Soviet times, there were many friends who worked where, who worked as engineers.
    Now retired, the youth are not a single worker familiar, -AU where are you ??
    All the cops, guards, watchmen, in banks, firefighters and drones count money (they work for themselves in garages, that is, hard workers) Three of my friends mow from the Army, have been hiding for 10-15 years already. Maybe I was lucky ???? He served and honestly worked Itr. Is it really just me ?? Can change the place of residence ??? laughing
    1. 0
      26 February 2013 19: 28
      Quote: krasin
      All cops, guards, watchmen, in banks, firefighters and drones count money
      So they are all our children. Or not? So they’ve raised them. It’s that the neighbor’s fool is going to plow, and mine is studying ... Or am I confusing something? So it turns out that the less we ourselves are willing to sacrifice, the more we demand it from others ...
  17. Fox
    26 February 2013 13: 17
    ]. In Soviet times, a simple worker could earn more than any engineer, this was the ideological policy of the state .------------------------------ and who prevented engineers from engaging in inventions and rationalization? my uncle made a lot of money on this and never complained. and if you, dear afftor, "hatched" your diploma, this is your problem. in my opinion it is stupid to look for ideology in your stupidity.
  18. +4
    26 February 2013 15: 51
    A student stands in front of a clinic and thinks
    I’ll imagine what I’ll become an engineer, I’m scared to go to the doctor
  19. Atlon
    26 February 2013 17: 27
    One of my acquaintances (an engineer) said: "You come to the defense of your diploma, half an hour of shame, then three days of drinking, and you are an engineer!"
  20. Phoenix bird
    26 February 2013 18: 26
    Quote: Dangerous
    And what else could we get when the Fursenks and Serdyukovs did not do anything good for so many years, but simply brazenly ruined the army and education?

    If the president did not fire them, then they suited him.
  21. +3
    26 February 2013 20: 40
    Reporting about events in life. He completed his military service as head of the department in 2009. Before the dissolution of the university in 2011 worked in his own department as an assistant professor. Currently I work in a civil university as an assistant professor. Therefore, the state of affairs in military education and civilian I know not by hearsay. I can argue that a higher school in a civilian step immediately in all directions at the same time, i.e. stands still and self-destructs. Excessive consolidation of civilian universities led to a complete loss of controllability of the educational process. In a military university, the department needed to determine the place of each lesson in the educational process, coordinate with subcontractors, even the examples considered during the lesson should be consistent. The goal was one - to qualitatively prepare the specialist ordered by the command.
    In civilian institutions there is no order from anyone. Whatever you want, teach that. The main thing is to awaken classroom hours in the audience with the students and set the final grades. The educational process rests only on cranks professors and associate professors conducting classes for salaries (another word is hard to come up with), for example, for the post of assistant professor, Ph.D., assistant professor in the department of 10000 rubles. (official salary 5000 rub.). Who will go there to work except for a senior citizen or a extortioner?
    What kind of talk can there be about some kind of reform if, as a drastic measure, the salary of an assistant professor has been increased since May of this year? up to 6700 rub._
  22. +1
    27 February 2013 02: 36
    I agree with the article as a whole, but the author is not right about the barracks. I think that the very presence in the men's team, as well as the daily routine, jogging, responsibility, the need for the manifestation of ingenuity, etc. won't hurt anyone. And for this the barracks are a great place.
  23. 0
    27 February 2013 08: 52
    TverichankaWhat are the victims? The ruble is at the forefront. As in advertising, take everything from life, that's what they take

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